214: The Californian Idea of Food


00:00:00   (upbeat music)

00:00:02   - Hello and welcome to Connected, episode 214.

00:00:12   It is made possible this week by our sponsors,

00:00:15   Squarespace, Luna Display, and PayPal.

00:00:18   I'm your host, Steven Hackett,

00:00:20   and I am joined by my two co-hosts.

00:00:22   I've got Michael Hurley here.

00:00:23   Hello, Myke.

00:00:24   - Hello, Steven Hackett.

00:00:26   - And I have Federico Vittucci.

00:00:27   - Hey there, how are you?

00:00:29   I'm good, we are together, we have lots of things

00:00:33   to talk about, this document is just--

00:00:35   - It's out of control.

00:00:36   - Unending, a lot of stuff.

00:00:38   - It's unhinged.

00:00:40   - So I think we should dive right in,

00:00:41   and we're gonna start follow up,

00:00:42   and we're gonna start follow up with a set of apologies.

00:00:46   - Okay.

00:00:47   - First one is to Pixel 2 owners.

00:00:51   - How many do we have?

00:00:52   I only see two apologies, is that a set?

00:00:54   - Well, I'm also gonna demand an apology.

00:00:57   - Oh, wow, we'll just wait for that.

00:01:00   - All right, okay, okay, sorry, go ahead.

00:01:03   - The Pixel had a headphone jack

00:01:05   and they made a big deal of it.

00:01:07   The Pixel 2 did not, and I conflated those phones

00:01:11   and said the Pixel 2 had a headphone jack,

00:01:12   and I'm very sorry I heard from all of you.

00:01:15   Please forgive me for being incorrect about that.

00:01:19   We also accidentally lobbed a grenade

00:01:23   right into the FileMaker camp,

00:01:25   And they lobbed it back saying, hey, we're still here.

00:01:28   We're still alive and kicking.

00:01:29   We heard from several people who have elaborate databases

00:01:32   in FileMaker, which I think is awesome.

00:01:34   I like tools that last a really long time.

00:01:36   We were not making fun of you, FileMaker user, I promise.

00:01:41   - There was someone who was like,

00:01:44   at a FileMaker conference or something.

00:01:46   That's serious.

00:01:48   FileMaker's no joke.

00:01:50   - I'll say this.

00:01:51   I will go, I will say, if you run a FileMaker conference,

00:01:54   and you would like an Apple podcast to record live

00:01:57   during your conference,

00:01:58   we promise not to make more than three FileMaker jokes.

00:02:02   - I think that you would enjoy it, right?

00:02:04   Like if we're at a FileMaker conference

00:02:06   to make fun of FileMaker, it's like FileMaker roast.

00:02:09   I wanna do a FileMaker roast.

00:02:12   So if someone runs a FileMaker conference,

00:02:15   I'd have to do a lot of research about FileMaker.

00:02:17   I do not know enough right now to roast FileMaker,

00:02:20   but I could get there.

00:02:21   - So is now the time to tell you

00:02:24   that I've replaced our invoicing tracking system with the FileMaker database?

00:02:28   No. Do you think there's like bad blood between the FileMaker people

00:02:34   and the Bento people? Like if you go to a FileMaker conference and you say that you

00:02:38   used to use Bento, they will look strange at you and be like "I'm sorry sir, but you

00:02:43   need to leave the room. Now there's going to be security walking you out." Like that

00:02:47   type of stuff. I wonder actually. Why don't we go? Because the FileMaker team looked at

00:02:53   like people look down on the Bento people. If you were a Bento user and you

00:02:59   were ever persecuted by a file maker user, send us an email. Alright so I demand an

00:03:05   apology from the notes team. From the Apple notes team. So do you remember last week I was having a

00:03:14   problem with searching my notes? Yes. Listener Yossi wrote in and told me that

00:03:19   they were having this problem and the way they fixed it was to scroll down to

00:03:22   the bottom of their list of notes and then they could search again.

00:03:25   Makes sense.

00:03:26   Makes sense.

00:03:27   And it fixed it.

00:03:28   Now I can search notes again.

00:03:29   So I demand an apology because this is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever

00:03:32   come across in software before.

00:03:34   So...

00:03:35   So to fix the issue, you just needed to scroll.

00:03:37   To be able to search my notes again, including the titles.

00:03:41   Like I had titles, it was, so I had like a note which says "October tour 2018" and I

00:03:48   would search the word "tour" and nothing would come up.

00:03:50   but so I had to scroll all the way down to the bottom of my list of notes and then it

00:03:54   would work again.

00:03:56   I don't understand how something like that could happen.

00:03:58   It's so weird.

00:04:00   That's an incredible bug.

00:04:03   It's almost impressive that it's broken in that way.

00:04:06   Also do you remember, I predicted in the keynote prediction thing that we did for the iPhone's

00:04:15   10 situation that there will be a clear case for the iPhone XR nothing was shown on stage

00:04:22   but there is going to be a clear case for the iPhone XR which I think is awesome I would

00:04:26   love it for my phone I would love it for my phone.

00:04:29   This is a weird story so how this came about like you said it was not on stage as far as

00:04:35   you know it hasn't showed up in any Apple stores but it was in the press release for

00:04:41   the iPhone XR in some countries, including Canada,

00:04:46   which said it was gonna be $55 Canadian,

00:04:48   which is about $40 US, but not in the US press release,

00:04:53   which I think is how it got missed by so many of us,

00:04:56   and not on the store and not talked about.

00:04:58   So maybe these cases pop up when pre-orders open,

00:05:02   which open Friday, by the way, so you've got--

00:05:04   - Friday. - You've got a couple days.

00:05:06   Is this case real, was it real,

00:05:08   and they're not making it now,

00:05:10   and it just, they didn't get scrubbed

00:05:11   from all the press releases.

00:05:13   Maybe the air power team was in charge of this case

00:05:15   and they got postponed.

00:05:18   But, so I guess we'll see if it's actually real.

00:05:22   I hope that it is, I think it would look cool.

00:05:26   I don't particularly like clear cases,

00:05:28   but there's a note in the document that says,

00:05:30   Federico has thoughts on clear cases,

00:05:32   so Federico, please share.

00:05:34   - My problem with clear cases is that I lack them,

00:05:38   I can appreciate them on principle, but in practice I hate the fact that every single

00:05:43   clear case that I've ever tried eventually ends up being this ugly mix of tiny particles

00:05:51   of dust in the back of my phone.

00:05:55   And it goes a bit yellowy, and it's like every time I try and clean it, I'm like "oh yes,

00:06:00   I finally did it".

00:06:01   The clear case is clear again.

00:06:03   But after 10 minutes, it's the same problem all over again.

00:06:06   So if Apple can make a clear case that actually attaches to the phone so well that it doesn't

00:06:13   let any dust particle in, that's awesome and I'm gonna try this case.

00:06:18   But like every time I try this case it's from Spigen, from what's the other popular brand?

00:06:25   Anker, no.

00:06:26   I don't know.

00:06:27   Not Anker, there's the other one that I don't remember.

00:06:30   But like last year I bought two of them and both of them had the same problem after like

00:06:35   not even a month. So that's my thought on clear cases that they're they're nice looking because

00:06:41   I can appreciate the fact that I can actually see the back of my phone. But they look ugly

00:06:47   after a few years because of lint and I think you're right. And I actually kind of have

00:06:51   the same problem with Apple's leather and silicon cases because you get that same sort

00:06:55   of grit around the frame where you know where the case meets the phone. And so you're popping

00:07:00   it in and out of the time to scrub all that stuff free. So I agree with you, like I had

00:07:06   a clear case probably like on my original iPhone and that's probably the only time I've

00:07:11   ever used one because of this reason. It's like you don't realize how sort of gross everything

00:07:15   is until you have a clear case that traps it all. Apple used to sell this keyboard,

00:07:19   probably like the iMac G4 and G5 days, a white keyboard with lots of like transparent plastic

00:07:24   at the base. I'll find a link in the show notes for you to see this. But with a keyboard

00:07:30   it's exceptionally bad because in like all your crumbs from when you eat...

00:07:35   Oh god, that keyboard was just gross town USA. Like it's the worst thing.

00:07:39   Yeah, so I'll find a picture of this and it looked, they all looked

00:07:43   disgusting after about four days of usage.

00:07:45   Full of hair and crumbs. That's what happened to those keyboards. They're just bad. It's best to

00:07:52   not know as well because it was accentuated by the fact that there were spaces, right? There was a

00:07:57   a lot of gaps in that keyboard anyway, right? Which I don't really know why, but it felt

00:08:02   like there was more opportunity, and plus the keys were high, so there was a lot of

00:08:07   depth in the keyboard, so when you press down something could fall in quite easy. So there

00:08:11   were many factors that led to there being more crumbs and human pieces to go in.

00:08:18   and that was terrible. Did you say human pieces? Yeah, because I was thinking of like skin

00:08:24   and hair, right? Like it is way, what I said was an abomination of language. Shed skin

00:08:32   on a keyboard. Well, but there's nothing you can do about it, right? Like that's what dust

00:08:35   is. That's what dust is. What do you want from me? Like I don't control this. Do not

00:08:40   say it. Okay. Okay. That's probably, that's probably enough. But yeah, that those keywords

00:08:45   were gross. Yeah, so there's that. So like we said pre-orders for the iPhone XR open

00:08:52   on Friday. It's the same thing as with other iPhones. It starts at midnight Pacific, so

00:08:58   if you're on the East Coast it's 3am Friday morning. They are doing early opening times

00:09:04   for stores as well. Oh okay. Which I was wondering if they were going to do, but some of the

00:09:08   London stores are opening at the same kind of time that they open for the XS. Okay. So

00:09:14   I'm very curious to see how this goes.

00:09:17   I think it's really unknown how this phone is going to sell.

00:09:21   I know several people out in my real life who are upgrading to this phone and/or who

00:09:26   are excited about it.

00:09:29   I hope that it does well.

00:09:30   I think we'll know pretty soon how that goes.

00:09:35   I think in our nerd community it's not going to be as popular as maybe it is out in the

00:09:43   wider world, but I would say that if you pick one of these up, let us know what you think

00:09:48   about it. Because I don't think, none of us are going to have this phone in our household,

00:09:51   right? Like, I'm not going to. Are you all going to have access to one of these?

00:09:59   Not directly. I don't know if my mom is upgrading yet. Probably because she's still using like

00:10:05   a 6S Plus. So she's probably in the market. Yeah, I'm in the same kind of boat. My mom

00:10:11   Muse is a six and I don't know if she's gonna want the size increase like I

00:10:17   don't know if she's gonna want to have a bigger screen so I'm thinking about like

00:10:22   taking her to a store at one point and seeing if it's something you should be

00:10:25   interested in so that's probably a good way to go about it because because the

00:10:29   size is so radically different mm-hmm but no I'm not planning on having one

00:10:35   but I will plan on seeing them somehow.

00:10:40   - Just wandering into an Apple store.

00:10:42   - That's what we do, taking pictures on Instagram, right?

00:10:47   - Yep. - That's what people should do.

00:10:49   - That's what I do.

00:10:51   - All right, so we have some follow out,

00:10:54   which is follow up based on other shows.

00:10:57   We spoke a little bit about the Apple Watch face frustration

00:11:01   that some of us feel, and there are really good sections

00:11:04   of both Upgrade 215 and Cortex 76, both earlier this week.

00:11:09   - Good shows.

00:11:09   - They're okay.

00:11:10   - I think they're pretty good.

00:11:12   - But they are, both of those kind of tackle us

00:11:16   from different perspectives, and I think it was

00:11:18   really interesting to hear, especially Jason's take on

00:11:22   if Apple's gonna have a monopoly on keyboards,

00:11:25   and they should do a better job at, you know,

00:11:29   making watch faces.

00:11:32   I think I said keyboards, but you know,

00:11:33   You know what I'm saying.

00:11:34   (laughing)

00:11:35   I was pasting a picture of a keyboard in the show notes

00:11:37   and I said keyboard, but I meant watch face.

00:11:39   If Apple's gonna have a monopoly on watch faces,

00:11:41   they should do a better job making watch faces.

00:11:43   - But also, if they had a monopoly on keyboards,

00:11:46   they should do a better job making keyboards.

00:11:47   - Yeah, MacBook Pro team.

00:11:48   - This is also true, it's also true.

00:11:50   - Sorry, my anger with the MacBook Pro

00:11:52   just comes out sometimes.

00:11:53   So I'm curious what you think, what we think,

00:11:57   if Apple's ever going to open this up,

00:12:01   And if they do, what sort of guidelines they may have to help shape what these watch faces

00:12:06   would look like?

00:12:07   All right, so I'm still listening to Cortex, so no spoilers, please.

00:12:13   But here's what I'm going to say.

00:12:16   I'm torn on, like, sometimes I have, like, I see my friends having strong opinions, and

00:12:22   I'm like, I don't really have a strong opinion.

00:12:25   But I sort of agree with part of the points being made.

00:12:30   So I agree that I would love for developers to be able to make custom watch faces.

00:12:34   I would probably go crazy trying to buy them all and collect them all and try them like

00:12:40   multiple watch faces every week.

00:12:42   But at the same time, I don't feel limited by the current system as much as other people

00:12:49   feel they are.

00:12:52   I think I'm doing okay with the Infograph faces that I'm using, the modular for workouts

00:12:57   and the other one for everyday life. I think my main problem actually is not with the fact that

00:13:08   I want more watch faces or that... like I keep hearing this comment that like the search for

00:13:14   the perfect watch face, like I don't have that problem. My problem is with complications. I want

00:13:20   more variety of complications with the watch face that I currently have. Like I can keep using the

00:13:26   the Infograph phase, I just want to have more freedom to install complications for everything,

00:13:31   in every single corner of the watch phase. But also, I want complications to be more

00:13:39   than simple launchers for entire apps. I want complications for specific things, for specific

00:13:48   actions. Like, there's a music complication. Okay, I want a music complication that starts

00:13:53   playing a specific playlist, or there's a workout complication that launches the workout

00:13:58   app, and that's fine, but I want a complication that launches my indoor bike workout. That

00:14:03   specific one. And you could actually say the same for a specific timer, or launching a

00:14:10   shortcut which doesn't have a watch app anymore. So my main problem is not actually,

00:14:16   "Oh, I want to have these dozens of custom watch faces.

00:14:21   I want to have hundreds of complications,

00:14:23   and I want them to be more specific and more personalized."

00:14:28   So I would love developers to be able to make them,

00:14:33   but actually I think I would prefer if Apple focused

00:14:37   on revamping the entire complication framework in watchOS 6.

00:14:42   - I can get on board with that.

00:14:42   I do wish for more flexibility in watch faces though.

00:14:47   Like I'm using the infographic modular, whatever,

00:14:51   the new one, and it's fine.

00:14:53   I don't love it, but I like it more

00:14:56   than I like the other new Infograph watch face.

00:14:58   For me, I think it's just about being able

00:15:01   to completely customize a device that you're wearing.

00:15:05   You know, Apple's done a really good job

00:15:06   on the hardware with that.

00:15:07   They have multiple finishes, they have bands,

00:15:09   they rotate out the bands every season,

00:15:11   So we all end up with a bunch of them that we really like.

00:15:15   And I could see that being really powerful,

00:15:18   to just like, hey, this watch can look

00:15:21   the way you want it to look.

00:15:22   I do think Apple would have some sort of framework set up

00:15:25   where there are maybe a couple of overall styles.

00:15:28   So like, okay, you can make a watch face,

00:15:32   but you have to have a complication support

00:15:34   in the four corners, or in this middle slot,

00:15:36   in this bottom slot.

00:15:37   Having sort of templates so the complications

00:15:40   are sort of similar across custom watch faces.

00:15:45   But I think what we've seen already

00:15:48   from like Steve Trout Smith and others playing with this

00:15:52   is that there are a lot of really interesting ideas

00:15:54   out there that Apple just isn't exploring.

00:15:57   You know, Underscore made one that showed the weather

00:16:02   but sort of like around the dial in an interesting way.

00:16:05   Showing, I think it had like rain percentage

00:16:07   and something else.

00:16:09   Again, just exploring new things.

00:16:12   And I think the argument that Apple is afraid

00:16:16   of losing control of the watch face is sort of,

00:16:20   like, I think that's what they would say,

00:16:23   but my thought is that that's sort of a silly stance.

00:16:26   Like, I think Apple needs to let go of that.

00:16:29   Because if you look at all of our other devices,

00:16:31   we can customize them the way that we want,

00:16:34   you know, with photos, and we can change the icons around,

00:16:37   the Mac, you can do all sorts of stuff.

00:16:38   Like, the watch should do that, maybe even more so

00:16:42   because it's so personal.

00:16:45   And if they're not going to, then I would expect Apple

00:16:48   to spend a lot more time making the watch faces we have

00:16:51   more flexible and creating new ones, you know,

00:16:55   maybe on a regular basis like they do the bands, right?

00:16:57   Like, why can't we have a couple of new watch faces

00:17:01   a couple times a year?

00:17:04   And some of them I'm sure would be sort of weird,

00:17:06   like the new, what is it, the flame,

00:17:09   and whatever the new ones are with the Series 4.

00:17:11   I don't know who's walking around with that watch face.

00:17:13   It's cool, I'm kinda glad it exists,

00:17:15   because Apple did it in this really interesting way.

00:17:18   But just keeping the watch fresh this way

00:17:22   would be something that would be exciting.

00:17:24   Until the Series 4, I basically used the same watch face

00:17:29   for, I guess, three years, however long

00:17:31   the Apple Watch has been around,

00:17:32   and they sort of messed that watch face up,

00:17:35   my opinion on the Series 4, so I changed. So I hope Apple just continues to

00:17:39   explore this to make the watch more flexible and to make it more customizable

00:17:42   because it should be. It should be a customizable thing. I find it kind of

00:17:46   interesting really that if you look at the amount of watch faces that get

00:17:50   introduced every year or whatever, Apple seems to create more that are for

00:17:56   aesthetic reasons than for practical reasons, you know? So like the

00:18:03   kaleidoscope gets added and they add a bunch more like character ones and then

00:18:08   they added the multiple options like effectively three faces of the fire the

00:18:14   smoke like they add a lot of those and maybe if you added it up it's kind of

00:18:19   similar but they add a lot of aesthetic watch faces right that are like

00:18:23   primarily to look good than to be functional well like infograph is

00:18:27   maximum functionality but then they also added one that makes your watch look

00:18:31   like it's on fire, right? And there's something that's cool, like it looks really cool, but

00:18:36   kind of the point that I'm driving towards is, it is interesting to me that Apple makes

00:18:41   aesthetically pleasing watch faces, or watch faces that are meant for aesthetics, but doesn't

00:18:48   allow for people to have something that specifically speaks to them. So the reason I think of this

00:18:57   is I wear a watch now that was completely to my style when I chose it and I could have

00:19:02   got it from anyone. I could have got a watch from anyone, right? There was a vast array

00:19:07   of watchmakers out there with different styles and I picked a watch that specifically spoke

00:19:11   to me. And I kind of think that there should be some kind of link there where Apple clearly

00:19:18   believes in the ability for people to have watch faces that are aesthetically pleasing

00:19:23   to them but at the same time people can't customize their watch or get watch faces in

00:19:31   the way that they would in the traditional watch world where you find a style that works

00:19:35   for you and you go with it.

00:19:37   So I just find that quite interesting that like they clearly believe there is a place

00:19:41   for aesthetics but only the aesthetics that they currently want to choose.

00:19:45   I don't know if it will change, I think it will.

00:19:47   I think eventually they will.

00:19:49   the same company that allowed for custom keyboards will at some point find a way to allow people to

00:19:55   make custom watch faces but they just need to find a way to do it. But I have been thinking about this

00:20:00   other thing which and I don't know what I think about this but like watches are expensive for a

00:20:08   couple of reasons right like actual watches and that you buy are not smart watches they're

00:20:15   expensive because they are intricately made right like there's a lot of little pieces depending on

00:20:19   and how it's made. But then there's also a significant markup for style reasons.

00:20:24   You know, you make something expensive, it's more luxurious, people understand that, right?

00:20:29   Like that's how fashion works, right? You have high markups because it makes it more

00:20:33   exclusive, blah, blah, blah, right? We're all on agreement with this point that that

00:20:37   is kind of how fashion works. Like there is, you know, it's harder that they put more effort

00:20:42   into making it, but then they also increase the prices. What if there are really expensive

00:20:49   Apple watch faces. Like someone charges $300 for a watch face because it's branded by such

00:20:58   and such company. Do you think that will happen?

00:21:03   I think anything can happen. I don't think it would be too insane to imagine. I mean,

00:21:08   they make a physical watch with a brand on it.

00:21:11   Yeah, the Hermes watch, right? I mean, but you could argue that a lot of the cost goes

00:21:16   Into the strap right because it's the physical thing. It's a really good leather and nuts you but right

00:21:21   That's a little apple and orange isn't it? Because like Hermes can do that because the the brand the straps are

00:21:28   Sort of their brand we're like say that your watch

00:21:32   Company whose name has escaped me now. No most like no, what do they?

00:21:38   What would they gain for making an Apple watch face and charging? Oh, I'm not saying it's gonna be like Rolex making one

00:21:45   I'm just wondering if like

00:21:47   Some companies will come in and do it

00:21:49   Right like that. There are maybe companies like fossil or whatever that might come in and be like, oh, yeah

00:21:56   This is our 90 dollar watch face or just like any type of fashion house

00:22:00   Maybe it doesn't already make watches could come and say like oh we've designed this thing

00:22:04   And it cost this much and that it becomes a thing. I just wonder if that could be a part of it

00:22:10   I think we're all mostly thinking like wouldn't it be great for third-party watch faces because

00:22:17   developers could make really cool functional ones but I wonder if they could...

00:22:21   Subscription based watch faces.

00:22:24   It loses two minutes a day until you pay.

00:22:28   So funnily enough my watch actually does lose time.

00:22:31   There you go.

00:22:33   It's a feature.

00:22:34   It will lose time until I reset it again.

00:22:37   This is just a thing with watches that are made with springs and cogs.

00:22:40   It loses an amount of seconds every day or whatever.

00:22:43   Mine is too.

00:22:44   Mm-hmm.

00:22:45   Not my Apple Watch, my other one.

00:22:47   Can you imagine the outrage if your idea came to pass?

00:22:54   There's no money in the app store unless you make games.

00:22:56   If you're making a utility app, you're just out of business.

00:22:59   But if you make a watch face, you can buy a yacht.

00:23:03   That's the holdout for high prices in the app store is watch faces.

00:23:06   would freak out. But you know, everything is a race to the bottom, so I don't really

00:23:10   see it. I think the idea is interesting, but I think ten years of the market and the App

00:23:14   Store shows that these things will be a dollar apiece. Which is a shame, but I think it's

00:23:21   where we are.

00:23:22   Possibly. Yeah.

00:23:23   So, next episode of this very podcast, episode 215 of Connected, we will be recording live

00:23:31   in New York City, one week from tomorrow. We're going to record the show Thursday evening.

00:23:37   It'll be Myke and I and a secret special guest. We won't say who, but it's a surprise, unless

00:23:44   you already know, in which case it's not a surprise, but keep your mouth shut.

00:23:47   It's not a surprise.

00:23:48   So anyways, we'll be in New York. If you have a ticket, we're really looking forward to

00:23:52   seeing you. And if you don't have a ticket, we're going to have the show out, I'm hoping,

00:23:57   Thursday night, but definitely Friday morning. The live show will be up in this feed as normal,

00:24:03   but we're also going to do Upgrade Live on Monday of next week in Chicago. So if you

00:24:07   listen to Upgrade, there'll be a live episode of that. And if you listen to Ungenius, the

00:24:11   show Myke and I have about weird stuff we find on Wikipedia, the next two episodes will

00:24:17   be live. We're going to record one in Chicago and one in New York, and we'll release them

00:24:20   on the regular schedule. So four live podcasts coming your way, Myke and I.

00:24:25   And the pan addicts will be in Toronto.

00:24:27   Yes! We'll talk about that for a second.

00:24:29   You forget. Well yeah, we're just going up to the Toronto Pen Show,

00:24:33   and we're going to be doing a bunch of stuff there. So I would assume though that if you

00:24:38   care about that you probably already listen to the pan addict and you know.

00:24:41   Right. You never know, you can convert to thousands of people just now.

00:24:44   Could have done. Could have done.

00:24:46   Just waiting. Just waiting.

00:24:48   Could have.

00:24:50   So yeah, so we're looking forward to being on the road next week, something Myke and I have been

00:24:53   been planning for a long time and we're going on tour how great of phrase is

00:24:58   that I loved saying that to people oh what are you doing next week I'm going

00:25:02   on tour yeah it's great gonna go that's so good gonna go on tour so if you have

00:25:06   a ticket we will see you there and it's gonna be gonna be fun the live room the

00:25:10   live chat room people are asking if these shows will be live streamed if we

00:25:16   can do that we'll announce it on Twitter beforehand but I don't want to promise

00:25:20   because I'm not sure at this point. Who knows about internet connections in

00:25:24   theaters? Definitely not us. It's iffy. So we're gonna try but we will let you know on Twitter

00:25:29   in advance if we can. That fair? No. Well that's how it is. Today's show is brought

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00:27:03   It's time.

00:27:04   We have to talk about bagels.

00:27:05   I know that's what people tune in for.

00:27:08   So the iOS 12.1 beta, the next version of Unicode's emoji set, includes a bagel.

00:27:17   We talked about it a while back.

00:27:20   And Apple has redesigned it.

00:27:22   So the 12.1 beta has a new design of this.

00:27:25   There's a link to some Jeremy Burr's tweets and a blog post.

00:27:30   Jeremy has the best job on the planet.

00:27:33   He is on the ground in Bagel Town.

00:27:35   Can you say that?

00:27:36   I don't know if I would want to have been Jeremy over the last two days.

00:27:38   Well we're gonna get into that. So we should talk about the bagel emoji itself. We should

00:27:42   lay the scene. So the bagel emoji used to just be a bagel, just sliced in half so you

00:27:51   could see the bread.

00:27:52   It isn't a thing that we have yet. I'm just saying it used to be. I just want to say it

00:27:56   never got released other than in the bagel channel.

00:27:58   Yes, yeah. So it was there for select people. But there was nothing on the bagel. As plain

00:28:05   as a plain bagel can be sliced in half, sort of offset. You could see what it was, but

00:28:10   people thought that that was not descriptive enough or whatever. And so now the bagel is

00:28:16   more textured. I think it looks faker than the previous one. It looks kind of like a

00:28:21   bagel out of a Nintendo 64 game somehow. It looks like an old Xbox. I mean, it straight

00:28:27   up looks like they took a photo of a bagel and then did something to it, right? Like

00:28:31   It's it is fought. It's like they decided they would make the most detailed emoji that has ever existed

00:28:37   As a way to try and stop people complaining and sometimes that works

00:28:40   So the fried egg emoji is one of my favorites like a black skillet with a fried egg in it and it looks super realistic

00:28:46   But it's perfect. This has gone too far. This is too real

00:28:50   It's still cut open and sort of the top is sort of knocked off a little bit and you can see

00:28:55   what I would say is a pretty healthy dose of

00:29:00   Cream cheese spread on this so someone went to town on this thing

00:29:04   But not everyone is happy and I don't eat bagels or cream cheese

00:29:10   So does someone want to explain to me why people are upset and then I think Federico you have some thoughts

00:29:15   Honestly at this point I can't explain why people are upset but but but people

00:29:20   Mostly on in New York or or an honor around the East Coast are still unhappy with the representation of the baby

00:29:28   So we need to be careful because we're going to New York next week and we don't want to

00:29:31   be run out of town.

00:29:33   I will say New York bagels, one of my very favorite things in the entire world, like

00:29:37   love New York bagels.

00:29:39   Like I enjoy pizza in New York.

00:29:41   It's very good.

00:29:42   I like pizza in New York a lot.

00:29:43   So I'm very excited to go back to New York because I'm going to eat my way through it

00:29:46   all.

00:29:47   I love the food in New York.

00:29:49   But I honestly at this point personally, I can't see what's wrong with this anymore.

00:29:55   I mean the first one I could look at it and still know it was a bagel, although it did

00:29:58   look a little bit more like a donut. But now, I mean, I look at it and I'm like, "Yeah,

00:30:03   okay. You took a photo of a bagel, right?"

00:30:05   Yeah.

00:30:06   That's what it looks like to me.

00:30:07   Shrank it down.

00:30:08   Yeah, so, you know, I know that people are still unhappy. I can't tell you why. I don't

00:30:14   think that any of us are adequately bagel-knowledge'd to tell you what's wrong with it now.

00:30:21   This isn't the accidental bagel podcast. That's somebody else.

00:30:25   No. ABP. My favorite show.

00:30:28   I can't speak for bagels specifically, because I'm not from New York.

00:30:34   But I have, I have a, I want to talk, you gotta give me five minutes to talk about like

00:30:40   this bigger question, this bigger topic, this bigger topic of should we let, in this case

00:30:48   Apple or any company based in California, dictate the style of, and the representation,

00:30:55   visual representation of food emoji based on their own American and specifically Californian

00:31:04   idea of that food. And this is like, if you look in the show notes, there's a link to

00:31:11   my tweet that actually gained a bit of traction. I actually shared it as a joke, complaining

00:31:18   about the pizza emoji. This is something that I've been sharing with my own circle of friends

00:31:23   for a couple of years basically, that the pizza emoji, it doesn't really look like pizza.

00:31:30   It's an atrocity.

00:31:31   Oh, Federico.

00:31:32   No, no.

00:31:33   We will just translate.

00:31:34   It's your Twitter handle.

00:31:35   You're @tendrils.

00:31:36   @tendrils.

00:31:37   This is so good.

00:31:39   Perfect.

00:31:40   Perfect.

00:31:41   Just, yeah.

00:31:44   So the pizza emoji, as an Italian, and like, if you know the history of pizza, you know

00:31:51   pizza was invented in Italy. It's an Italian food that was exported over the course of

00:31:58   multiple decades overseas and all over the world. And pizza is an Italian word and everybody

00:32:04   calls it pizza because it's made in Italy. Like originally it was created in Italy. But

00:32:09   if you look at the apple emoji, it doesn't look anything like an Italian pizza. First

00:32:14   of all, it's a single slice. It's got pepperoni on it, which is not something that we have

00:32:19   in Italy. The cheese is kind of yellow, it's not white mozzarella. The mix of cheese and

00:32:26   tomato sauce, and there's no basil at all. It doesn't look like an Italian pizza. And

00:32:32   the crust is, I don't know, it looks like some kind of frozen pizza or bread. I wouldn't

00:32:37   know how to describe it, it looks horrible. Ask any Italian, and they will tell you this

00:32:41   is not pizza, this is some kind of American idea of pizza. And the fact that it's a single

00:32:46   slice sort of speaks to the idea that this is an American take on pizza. Because we,

00:32:54   like when you go, our idea of pizza, if you ask an Italian, close your eyes and imagine

00:32:58   a pizza, you would imagine a whole pizza, not a single slice. So this idea of why, why

00:33:07   do people, because I shared this tweet and I got so many replies, most of them from Italian

00:33:13   people saying, "You're totally right. We should do something." Some of them, actually, many

00:33:19   of them saying, "No, because that's American pizza, and that looks like our pizza." And

00:33:28   that's where my problem lies, of this sort of American exceptionalism, of thinking that

00:33:35   that pizza, American pizza, is justified in the emoji because that's what the Americans

00:33:42   think, and that's what the Americans eat. I think, and this is where the core of this

00:33:49   discussion lies for me, it's just an emoji, right? So it doesn't really matter, but, like,

00:33:57   a silly thing to argue over. But the idea of respecting the culture of food and respecting

00:34:07   where a specific type of food originates from, I think it's important for certain countries

00:34:17   where food culture is really important and where we hold close onto our traditions and

00:34:24   our history and our heritage because in Italy, food, I wouldn't say that our lives revolve

00:34:30   around food, but food is a…

00:34:32   Having spent a long weekend with you, I would say it does quite a bit, right? Like, just

00:34:41   the amount of time that a meal can take, like it is a very central part of the culture,

00:34:47   which I love, I think that's why people love it.

00:34:49   Most of all, we care about preserving our traditions. In Italy, every single region

00:34:58   has their own recipes and their own traditions. Every single city could be associated with

00:35:03   a typical meal or a typical food or a typical ingredient. It's something that we really

00:35:08   care about. And it's something that I think in Italy we do a good job at respecting our

00:35:13   own tradition, but also respecting the traditions from other countries. If you go to a trattoria

00:35:18   in Italy, they don't serve you sushi because they would tell you "we don't know how to

00:35:24   make sushi". It's possible that you can go to a generic restaurant and say something

00:35:32   like "I wanna eat Mexican", but it's very uncommon and it would be very unusual for

00:35:37   an Italian restaurant to be that kind of place. We have sushi places, we have Mexican places.

00:35:43   minutes done I don't care we try we try to we try to respect our own traditions

00:35:51   we try to respect of additions from other countries and so when I look at

00:35:55   this emoji and I look at you know for example the controversy that there was I

00:35:59   think last year over the paella emoji once again there was actually it was a

00:36:06   campaign in Spain people from Valencia which campaign in

00:36:10   in Spain falls mainly on the plane.

00:36:13   Yes, but people in Valencia are saying like that paella emoji doesn't look anything like

00:36:19   our paella and so Apple actually changed the emoji.

00:36:22   I think the idea of…

00:36:23   Well then you know what you've got to do, don't you?

00:36:25   I know, but the idea… this is my… the single comment that I want to make.

00:36:30   That the idea… not the single, but the most important.

00:36:35   The idea that an American company thinks that they can design food the way that they think

00:36:45   it looks like, without expecting these kinds of comments, I think it's a bit silly. And

00:36:52   I think it's important to acknowledge that certain types of food come from certain countries,

00:37:04   and that it's important to respect the culture and the history of that food. And so the pizza

00:37:09   looks extremely wrong. I understand why people from New York would complain about the bagels,

00:37:15   even though it's a silly thing, and even the pizza it's a silly thing, but I understand

00:37:18   why people complained about the paella, I understand why people from other countries

00:37:22   are saying that their food is not represented in the emoji, that is not something that Apple

00:37:26   can fix because it's a it's a Unicode thing, but Apple can totally and should fix the representation

00:37:31   of the emoji font in iOS, and saying that people in America eat pizza that way is not

00:37:38   an excuse for what pizza, real pizza, real Italian pizza, because it's an Italian thing,

00:37:44   should look like. You can make an American pizza, you can make a French pizza, but the

00:37:49   original is from Italy. Just like you can make Italian sushi or you can make German

00:37:55   Tiramisu, sure, but like you I'm not a

00:37:58   I'm not saying that there's pizza and there's mistakes even though I've said that in the past

00:38:03   But I realize that's a bit of an extremism type of comment

00:38:07   But there's variations and there's the original and the emoji should be the original

00:38:12   So done I mean I will just provide a

00:38:18   Couple of points the emoji is actually called slice of pizza

00:38:22   And I think you may have mentioned this during your seven minute discussion, that that is

00:38:29   why I think it is represented in the way that it is because it is actually called in Unicode

00:38:33   "Slice off pizza" which does mean Federico that there is space for a pizza emoji.

00:38:40   You know if you want to make a, what do they call it, there's like a whole process you

00:38:46   can go through where you can suggest an emoji.

00:38:48   Yeah, you just text Jeremy and it's done.

00:38:50   Well, see, I've tried this and he just sent you the forms now.

00:38:53   There's like this whole thing that you can do.

00:38:56   And many people have done it.

00:38:57   And like, it's a thing that that app that, you know, if you want to, if you want to

00:39:00   go for it right, you can, you can go for it and you can try and get a pizza.

00:39:04   Um, Apple do call this one pizza, but the, the, the, there, there is space in

00:39:10   Unicode for a pizza emoji because the current one that exists, it's just slice

00:39:15   of pizza.

00:39:15   The other thing that I wanted to just say on this is I would like to exclude

00:39:19   myself from opinion on this pizza emoji and the bagel emoji. So if and when people write

00:39:29   in... Why? What's the controversial about what I

00:39:33   said? Because the thing is... No, try... Help me understand. What is controversial?

00:39:39   I don't want to make you understand anything. My point is just that like...

00:39:45   Just do it. Just rip the bandaid off. I understand completely what you're saying,

00:39:53   Federico. That like, to you pizza is an Italian thing and it is in a certain way.

00:40:00   But like, to people in some parts of America, like, pizza is a different thing

00:40:04   to them and they think of it as this. Why do we need to respect people in America?

00:40:08   Is that like the general question or are we talking... Why should the emoji look like

00:40:14   what Americans eat. Why? Why just Americans?

00:40:19   Let me ask you, I'm not sharing an opinion, but let me ask you a question then. Is the

00:40:23   way to fix it, Apple and these other companies, making their emoji more reflective of the

00:40:29   culture that item comes from? Because I think it's what you said, that's what you want.

00:40:34   Or is this like a broader problem in emoji and Unicode that these things are not flexible

00:40:42   enough. So I can long press on the astronaut, I can change their skin tone. Should I be

00:40:50   able to long press on the slice of pizza and pick Chicago pizza, New York pizza, Italian

00:40:55   real pizza?

00:40:56   No. Yeah, not under any circumstances should that be what we do because that would be a

00:41:00   nightmare. The problem is, the problem is, this is just a blanket issue with emoji, right?

00:41:09   that you have to pick something. So they pick something. And if you are an American company,

00:41:22   this is what you will do for pizza. A slice of pizza with pepperoni on it is probably

00:41:28   going to be to the large American population and maybe to a lot of the world at large.

00:41:35   easiest to see at a small scale what a pizza is. I understand 100% what you're saying Federico

00:41:42   that like this actually just doesn't look like a good slice of pizza in the amount of

00:41:48   way you're from. The apple emoji, it just doesn't look.

00:41:53   The Twitter one's even worse. Look at the Twitter one.

00:41:55   I don't like Samsung's one. I don't know why there is onion on the pepperoni pizza. That

00:42:00   seems like a nightmare. Where is the Twitter one? Oh yeah, the Twitter one.

00:42:05   It's like it looks like they cut a piece out of a clown trousers.

00:42:09   Oh, oh, oh.

00:42:11   But like, you know, I feel you. I get you. But like this problem is way too hard to fix

00:42:23   and I don't even know if it can or should be.

00:42:28   It's just frustrating after decades of having American culture and businesses take over

00:42:36   many parts of the food industry. Like if you look at McDonald's, if you look at Starbucks

00:42:41   that is coming to Italy now. Like all these big corporations coming from the United States

00:42:46   and sort of taking over the culture of food and all over Europe.

00:42:53   Maybe this explains why then, because they do it because people want it. So what can

00:43:00   you do? Right? Like at large, the people, they want the American food.

00:43:06   Well, the burger looks like an American burger. So that's our problem.

00:43:10   Well, there was a whole big thing about that. Do you remember that with the Google and the

00:43:14   cheese?

00:43:15   I remember that. But like when you're... I feel like when you're trying to represent

00:43:21   local foods with a clear history, with a clear origin.

00:43:26   But I don't think they're doing that.

00:43:28   Why do you need to design them?

00:43:31   Again there's precedent for this if you look at the paella that they got wrong initially.

00:43:36   Why do you need to design them through the lens of the United States?

00:43:40   Paella is very specific, right?

00:43:45   is like that is a dish which is kind of like localised to Spain. And I think at this point,

00:43:59   pizza is much more universal. There are lots of places that claim their own pizza in a

00:44:06   way that I don't think people claim their own paella. I don't think there is a New York

00:44:12   paella. I would love to see it if it exists but I don't think it is like widely accepted as a thing

00:44:19   but I'm sure you could you could drum up enough of a fuss and start a campaign if you really wanted to

00:44:28   I feel like maybe I'm unable to make the point as strongly as I could make it in Italian or with

00:44:38   Italian people, I feel like I'm not doing a good job at explaining my position or maybe

00:44:45   it's just it's and this is not like a negative comment for you guys, I feel like maybe this is

00:44:51   not the right audience to have this kind of discussion. Well yeah because you're talking

00:44:54   to mostly Americans about why Americans shouldn't be able to control emoji. Having this discussion

00:45:02   with Italian people like either on Twitter or with my friends or with my girlfriend like it's a point

00:45:08   that comes across extremely clearly and everybody agrees. Because we really care about the food that

00:45:16   we invented and that we exported, and seeing the representation that is installed on billions of

00:45:23   devices through emoji, be it the American version, is a bit demoralizing. That's all.

00:45:28   Well, if it's any consolation, I think that we understand. And while we can't fix it,

00:45:36   I think that we hear you. So, uh, and also our country's probably going away anyway,

00:45:40   so it doesn't matter. Let's talk about something nicer after our next break.

00:45:45   Okay. Today's show is brought to you by our friends at Luna Display. Have you ever looked

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00:48:21   lunar display.com and the promo code connected at checkout.

00:48:24   Our thanks to lunar display for their support of this show and relay FM.

00:48:28   So there is another new beta of Shortcuts 2.1 and it includes a bunch of goodies.

00:48:36   Zefirik, why don't you walk us through this?

00:48:39   Sure.

00:48:40   So there's a... the new beta has new clock actions.

00:48:45   So you can stop using your Siri suggestions to start a timer or set an alarm, because

00:48:52   now it is possible to toggle alarms, like existing alarms, by name to create new alarms

00:49:00   directly from the shortcuts app.

00:49:02   Very happy about this.

00:49:05   Very good.

00:49:06   Good work, shortcuts team.

00:49:08   We needed this.

00:49:09   It's brilliant.

00:49:10   I would still like shortcuts to be able to detect if you're creating an alarm that already

00:49:16   exists, like an alarm with the same name, with the same time.

00:49:20   Right now it just creates a duplicate.

00:49:22   So there should be a way to check if it already is in the clock app, but still, that's pretty

00:49:28   awesome.

00:49:29   And also you can set a timer by passing a variable to the action, so you can actually

00:49:36   set a number and say set a timer for 30 minutes, which is basically, I think we're looking,

00:49:43   effectively, we're looking at what shortcuts should be in IAS 13.

00:49:48   that executes something in an external app and you can pass input, you can pass data,

00:49:53   you can pass variables to the action. So you can say set minutes or no set hours or set seconds

00:50:00   and then let me set this specific number. So this is exactly what shortcuts should be for apps, for all apps going forward.

00:50:08   This type of rich interaction that you can use in the shortcuts app.

00:50:11   So that's pretty good. I'm gonna use a bunch of these for

00:50:17   writing so I can have like a timer kick off for 30 minutes and also a toggle shortcut in the background

00:50:23   I'm going to yeah, I'm going to use

00:50:26   the alarms to

00:50:29   Rethink my goodnight

00:50:31   Shortcut and I'm pretty sure that Myke is going to take advantage of this and he's 25 alarms that he sets in the morning

00:50:38   It's more like 10. But yeah

00:50:40   it's more like 22, but I

00:50:44   I believe in accurate representation of my sleeping habits.

00:50:48   Yeah. If you had to buy the bigger phones, you could load them all on one screen.

00:50:52   That's why you did it.

00:50:53   Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's the only reason I like the big phones is so I can toggle all my alarms at

00:50:57   once. I had this funny thing this morning, right? Because my alarm shortcuts are totally broken

00:51:04   because I'm on like 2.1 beta 1 because it kind of seems like the only person in the world right now

00:51:09   who has beta 2 is Federico. I don't really know what's going on there, but I know I don't have it.

00:51:13   I don't have it so but Federico's got it but anyway what was that? Did you make some salad there?

00:51:23   Yeah I care about pizza. It's very good very it's like I almost can't tell who's speaking.

00:51:32   It's a very good impression. I'm very skilled at this. But anyway so at the moment I can't use my

00:51:38   shortcuts because it loads every single alarm and I have to tap something right

00:51:43   so I asked a good friend theory and I said disable my alarms and it said which

00:51:51   ones and it showed me a little like pop-up right and I said all of them and

00:51:56   it said sorry I can't do that so I cancelled it and then I said disable all

00:52:00   my alarms and it said okay and did it not make sense I got just how it's the

00:52:07   same request just given in a different step and it's like I just don't understand why

00:52:13   it can't.

00:52:14   But the inconsistency is consistent with Siri.

00:52:17   That's true actually. That's true. I should have expected the inconsistency, really, if

00:52:23   you think about it. There's also new sharing controls, right?

00:52:27   Yes. So if you previously shared a shortcut that you want to delete, you want to wipe

00:52:33   completely from Apple's iCloud servers, which happened to me before.

00:52:37   Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you want to remove a shortcut that has your friend's phone number

00:52:42   in it from your website, you can do that. And with the press of a button. I wonder,

00:52:50   I do wonder, listed like hypothetical terms, how this feature got added.

00:52:55   I mean, hypothetically, you find yourself in the situation of texting Apple to please

00:53:01   remove a shortcut, then you could see why. Phil, Phil, take it down!

00:53:08   I don't know if that scales, but everyone can text an engineer, and say please.

00:53:12   I mean, those business chats, there could have been a business chat feature. I don't

00:53:18   know, 800-remove-shortcut, there could have been a phone number, something like that.

00:53:23   One 800 emergency shortcut. It was like a digit too long.

00:53:30   So the way that it works is you can reopen one of your old iCloud links. They will relaunch

00:53:38   the shortcut app and you will see the shortcut come up in the gallery. And if it's your link,

00:53:45   because your link is associated with your device ID I suppose, you will see in your

00:53:51   iCloud account, you will see an ellipsis button in the top right of the window that appears

00:53:58   and you can say stop sharing and the shortcut will be removed, the link will be killed on

00:54:03   Apple servers and all the data will be deleted.

00:54:06   So that's convenient.

00:54:08   I still wish though that the shortcut had like a screen in the settings to say something

00:54:17   like "here's all of the shortcuts and all of the links that you ever shared with your

00:54:22   iCloud account".

00:54:24   Right now if you shared like me hundreds of iCloud links, good luck finding each one of

00:54:30   them if you want to delete them.

00:54:31   I mean I have a website so it's kind of easy for me but I can imagine like people

00:54:36   sharing them on Twitter or Reddit.

00:54:38   Like you need to go through every single comment and find your links.

00:54:41   Also every single time you share a shortcut a new iCloud link is created for you.

00:54:47   So it gets messy very quickly.

00:54:51   if you have a single link like happened to somebody that we all know a few weeks ago,

00:54:58   you can now reopen the link and delete it from your...

00:55:01   You?

00:55:02   Somebody we know.

00:55:04   Right, right. Everyone knows them.

00:55:07   What else? So also, Apple got kind of sneaky with this one. There's new measurement actions

00:55:15   allow you to convert units and measurements inside the shortcuts app.

00:55:20   But these actions, Myke, if you open your shortcut app 2.1 beta 1, you will find

00:55:26   them because they were pushed, I think, with an over-the-air update, which is

00:55:31   something that Apple can do. What's happening here? Search for measurement in your

00:55:37   shortcuts 2.1 beta 1. Now, what you up to over there, Apple? Now that's different, isn't it?

00:55:42   How interesting.

00:55:43   That's new.

00:55:44   I got comments from a bunch of people on Twitter saying "Why am I seeing them now, but I wasn't

00:55:50   seeing them before?"

00:55:52   And the only logical answer is that either an Apple engineer grabbed your phone when

00:55:57   you were sleeping and installed a different beta, which could be likely considering how

00:56:03   crazy with their working schedule they are, or Occam's Razor would suggest they just pushed

00:56:09   an over-the-air update with the new actions, which is interesting.

00:56:16   Some interesting possibilities down the road, maybe.

00:56:19   Did you know that 10 fathoms is 18.288 meters?

00:56:23   I did.

00:56:24   10 what?

00:56:25   Fathoms.

00:56:26   What's a fathom?

00:56:27   Everyone knows that.

00:56:28   What is a fathom?

00:56:31   What's the spelling of that?

00:56:33   F-A-T-H-O-M.

00:56:35   Can't fathom the fathom.

00:56:37   And did you know that 10 parsecs is 308 trillion, 600... no, it's like... what's the one after

00:56:45   trillion?

00:56:46   Quadrillion?

00:56:47   Quadrillion?

00:56:48   It's 308 quadrillion, 600 trillion meters.

00:56:53   I think.

00:56:54   Honestly, I don't even know.

00:56:56   There's one, two, three, four... there's five commas.

00:56:58   That seems like too many for me.

00:57:00   Fathom is a unit of length equal to six feet

00:57:03   Chiefly used in reference to the depth of water and one fathom tall is that is that certain from the TV show six feet under

00:57:12   One fathom below do you guys remember the TV show?

00:57:17   One more shortcut thing we have to talk about

00:57:29   All right, Federico, you did what the kids call clickbait. You tweeted, "Yay! I finally

00:57:37   got air power." Dot dot dot.

00:57:39   Ellipsis!

00:57:40   And shortcuts!

00:57:41   Exclamation point!

00:57:42   So I'm gonna open this.

00:57:44   Well...

00:57:45   Oh! Look at that! It's the air power sound! It's not someone crying like I expected it

00:57:50   to be. So how did you do this?

00:57:53   that also doesn't catch fire. Well, it turns out that in shortcuts you can access some

00:58:01   system files by using a file colon triple slash URL scheme. So you can look in system

00:58:12   files. >> How did you find this out?

00:58:14   >> I was going around on Twitter a while back, and then I sort of -- I remember -- like,

00:58:19   I saw another conversation on Reddit and I sort of put two and two together and I was

00:58:23   like "what if I try it?"

00:58:24   Do you ever sometimes think that you're going to ruin everyone's fun?

00:58:27   Like when you do stuff like this?

00:58:29   Not my fault!

00:58:30   I'm not writing!

00:58:31   No, no, no, it's not your fault!

00:58:33   But like I figure this is how it gets killed, right?

00:58:36   Like when you tweet about it.

00:58:38   I'm not the one writing the code to make this happen.

00:58:41   Oh I know.

00:58:42   So it's uh...

00:58:43   My favorite one though is the one you shared afterwards which is just the repeating camera

00:58:48   Which is just really funny.

00:58:52   So you're looking in, what's the file path?

00:58:56   System library core services, system library audio UI sounds.

00:59:03   But you can also look in system library core services and access the springboard.

00:59:07   There was a tweet from a while back, I think from Steve Charman Smith, who zipped up the

00:59:12   springboard in a zip archive.

00:59:15   [laughter]

00:59:16   So that's fine.

00:59:17   You may need to email it to yourself for later.

00:59:24   You know.

00:59:25   Like, I appreciate all of this work, but like, why?

00:59:29   What are you going to do with that?

00:59:32   Automation, man.

00:59:33   Why?

00:59:34   Don't you ever find yourself in a situation where like, "Oh man, I wish I could make an

00:59:39   archive of my screen, but..."

00:59:40   Yeah.

00:59:41   I need to back it up.

00:59:42   Put it on Dropbox.

00:59:43   For all the things you could do with that.

00:59:45   So last night I was playing around with this method and I did a bunch of things that I

00:59:49   didn't share on Twitter. I extracted system fonts, so I extracted the Apple color emoji

00:59:57   at 2x font.

00:59:59   We all know you need it at 2x.

01:00:02   Oh yeah, you gotta go at 2x. I extracted a bunch of San Francisco variations including

01:00:10   the Apple Watch ones, which are embedded in the iOS firmware, of course. It's fun, you

01:00:16   can do some interesting things. I think it will be probably removed soon, so if you want

01:00:24   to have access to these, what's the file extension? C-A-F? C-A-F? C-A-F files?

01:00:32   Yeah, C-A-F. Baby C-A-F.

01:00:35   C-A-F. What does C-A-F stand for?

01:00:39   compressed audio format. Core audio format. It was compatible with 10.4 and higher. Mac

01:00:55   OS 10.3 needs QuickTime 7 to be installed.

01:00:58   Oh man. They haven't got shortcuts in there though. They haven't caught on to that on

01:01:05   Wikipedia.

01:01:06   So, yeah, I mean, shortcuts, the bigger, the more serious comment. I'm happy to see that

01:01:12   the shortcuts team is continuing to release updates on a regular schedule. And most of

01:01:17   all, that they are somehow collaborating, not to say convincing, other Apple teams to

01:01:25   add native shortcuts based on an API that I hope will be made available to developers

01:01:32   next year, like the new clock actions, or like the new weather actions from the previous

01:01:37   beta.

01:01:38   So we're looking at what I hope is the future of third-party shortcuts, and it's really

01:01:43   good, I'm really happy.

01:01:44   I suppose that this is going to launch alongside iOS 12.1, but that is just my assumption.

01:01:50   Still, I'm getting ready and I will have a bunch of nice examples to share when the update

01:01:54   goes live. Even nicer than five repeating camera sounds. It's sort of stressful to hear

01:02:01   that actually. Yeah it is. It's a horrifying thing. I was thinking like how could I prank

01:02:06   my friends with this kind of shortcut. I actually thought of like a security system where like,

01:02:15   especially because in the new beta, so if you have iOS, this is a teachy, teachy tip.

01:02:22   If you have iOS 12.1 beta installed and shortcuts 2.1 beta 2, you will get support for media

01:02:33   actions playing through the HomePod.

01:02:36   So you need to have the latest iOS beta.

01:02:38   What does that mean that I don't currently have?

01:02:41   So it means that all of your shortcuts that play media, so Apple Music and I think Speaking

01:02:48   in text will play through the HomePod when you invoke a shortcut via Siri. I still need

01:02:57   to test this like in depth. On the HomePod though?

01:03:00   They will play on the HomePod. So all media-based actions that include some form of audio will

01:03:06   play through the HomePod. All your actions that include audio.

01:03:10   What I still want is to be able to define this. That's what I want.

01:03:14   Yeah, I know, I know, I know. That I can run it from the iPad.

01:03:17   Here's my thought. Here's my thought. I was inspired, Myke, by your control of the HomePod

01:03:24   via your Canary. And so today I had the thought, if somebody breaks into my apartment, which

01:03:34   I hope it doesn't happen, so then the thought kind of evolved into, this is maybe a prank

01:03:39   that I could pull off my mom when she comes visit my apartment, I could do something like

01:03:44   this, I would get the notification from the Canary and I would leave one of my iPads at

01:03:49   home, or even my iPhone because now I have my Apple Watch with cellular, I could leave

01:03:54   it at home and when I get the notification I could speak to the Canary and run the shortcut.

01:03:59   And the shortcut will play to the HomePod and say very loudly "You're now being photographed"

01:04:05   and it will play all the camera sounds and play a siren through the HomePod.

01:04:11   "Poor mom, that's not very nice."

01:04:14   And continuing to play all the camera sounds, saying things like "We're now sending these

01:04:18   pictures to the police," and stuff like that.

01:04:21   "Oh, that's terrible."

01:04:22   I can put any text in the SpeakText action, and I can play the system sounds, so why not?

01:04:30   Why not make them believe that 200 pictures are being taken and sent to the police?

01:04:36   I mean, you know, automation.

01:04:39   I think this is a good idea. But not to your mother, but like...

01:04:43   You're like the kid in Home Alone, but in the 21st century.

01:04:46   Yeah.

01:04:47   I always pull pranks on my mom.

01:04:49   Okay.

01:04:50   Like all the time. Like even really bad pranks. Like, "Mom, I was in an accident."

01:04:54   That's terrible.

01:04:55   What?

01:04:56   Like, "I'm terrible, I know."

01:04:57   Why do you do that?

01:04:58   Because I'm a bad person.

01:05:00   Your poor mother, why do you do that to her?

01:05:04   She's now reached a point where she doesn't believe it anymore.

01:05:06   Yeah, when something bad happened.

01:05:07   You cry wolf. Yeah. She stays up late reading your reviews, trying to understand why you work with bees,

01:05:15   and you treat her too poorly. That's really sad. Yeah. No, I mean, I try to, like, she got really

01:05:22   upset once because I really made it sound believable, like, that something happened.

01:05:27   So lately I've been trying to pull pranks more in the style of "something happened in Italy," so I

01:05:33   would say things like "Oh, the pope died" or "Did you see that?"

01:05:37   What is wrong with you? What is the outcome? What is the desired outcome of this?

01:05:43   I don't know, just make her believe and listen to her reaction. It's really funny because she

01:05:47   believes anything, especially when it comes to like news-based stuff like "This famous actor died"

01:05:54   or like "Something happened" like, I don't know, all kinds of things. It's funny. And she talks,

01:06:02   this is quite funny, she told me that my dad, my biological father, used to be this way,

01:06:08   like pulling pranks all the time. And I had no idea, and I had no idea, so it's like a common trait, I suppose.

01:06:14   In the Vitechy men, that they are mean to just your mum, right?

01:06:21   Like, because you don't do this stuff to us, why is this just localized to your mother?

01:06:26   Because it's funnier to hear a reaction, and especially when she discovers that it's a prank.

01:06:31   Like she gets upset.

01:06:33   - Well yeah.

01:06:34   - That's because Sylvia laughing in the background

01:06:37   all the time, like it's funny.

01:06:39   - Oh my.

01:06:40   - Man, that's not good.

01:06:44   - So anyway, the police prank with shortcuts

01:06:47   will definitely happen at some point.

01:06:49   - So now for the first time in 28 years

01:06:53   of podcasting together, I can say,

01:06:55   let's talk about Palm.

01:06:57   Is everybody ready?

01:06:58   Everybody as excited as I am?

01:07:00   - Yep.

01:07:01   - We remember Palm, they had a bunch of phones,

01:07:03   and then they didn't anymore, and then they were gone.

01:07:06   - I had a Palm Pre.

01:07:07   - I had a Palm Pre.

01:07:08   - I loved that phone.

01:07:09   - Yeah, it was great. - That was great.

01:07:10   - I had the Palm Treo before that,

01:07:11   before my phone, before the iPhone was a Treo.

01:07:14   They were around a long time,

01:07:15   but they were sort of a victim of not really catching up

01:07:20   after the iPhone came out, and they went away.

01:07:24   The brand is back.

01:07:26   Palm is not a company again.

01:07:29   It's just the name.

01:07:31   And it is a name that's been slapped on a tiny 3.3 inch $349 Android phone.

01:07:40   And the idea here is I think that it's supposed to be a second phone, so not like Federico's

01:07:43   day phone and night phone, but sort of like a...

01:07:49   You joke about that, but you know I have a day watch and a night watch now.

01:07:54   This is a teaser for the next episode, but I have two Apple watches, Series 4.

01:07:59   Oh, boy.

01:08:01   But the idea is like a secondary device.

01:08:04   So something like an Apple Watch,

01:08:06   like you talked about with the cellular one,

01:08:07   that you can leave your phone behind.

01:08:09   You can still get critical stuff on your watch,

01:08:11   but you don't have the whole thing.

01:08:13   And the idea is that if you have a phone on Verizon in the US,

01:08:18   you could buy this thing, again, for $349.

01:08:22   And it uses a shared device plan, and it rings your phone.

01:08:26   You get a call.

01:08:27   It runs Android apps but it's tiny and so the thought is that you don't want to use

01:08:31   it as your primary phone.

01:08:33   It's meant to help you with distractions.

01:08:36   It has a mode that I think is really interesting called Life Mode in which it turns off all

01:08:40   notifications and also the wireless radios are shut off when the screen is off.

01:08:45   So if you pick it up, the screen's on, the radios come on, you can use it, but then when

01:08:50   you put it in your pocket, the radios turn off.

01:08:54   You can't be reached then, but the battery,

01:08:58   assuming, lasts forever.

01:08:59   So it's kind of like a time well spent sort of idea here

01:09:05   between a dumb phone and a smart phone.

01:09:07   So what is this?

01:09:11   Is this the thing that's going to be successful?

01:09:13   I feel like a smart watch does all these things

01:09:16   and I only have to carry one phone.

01:09:18   Does anybody have any thoughts?

01:09:23   Well, you're not gonna carry both phones, right? Like I don't think that's the point.

01:09:28   It seems like the point is that you would take this phone when you don't want to be

01:09:37   disconnected from the world but you also don't want to be distracted, right? Like that you

01:09:46   take this one out and this is your phone for when you're going to on a picnic with your family

01:09:53   so you can still take photos which a smartwatch can't do and you can still get text messages you

01:10:02   can still get maps right like you can still play music via bluetooth to a bluetooth speaker

01:10:07   but you're not also going to be like wanting to really check twitter because the screen is so small

01:10:14   so small. Isn't that about as big as the original iPhone?

01:10:16   The original iPhone was 3.5 inches. This is 3.3.

01:10:19   Yeah. It's kind of hilarious. But yes, this is so small. It is too small for the types

01:10:26   of things we do now on our phones.

01:10:28   Yeah, totally.

01:10:29   I think "by and large" is a way to maybe better describe it. I think it's not a bad idea.

01:10:36   Like you know, it really does. I mean, this is the thing, right? You can argue like, would

01:10:40   you get this or would you get a smartwatch? But like, I don't want to wear a smartwatch

01:10:45   right now, but I understand the appeal of something like this. And in a way that like,

01:10:54   I would be more willing to trust I could get whatever I needed done on this thing than

01:10:59   I maybe would on an Apple Watch. Right? Because it runs all the apps that Android runs, right?

01:11:06   they're all available right because you could just run them they might not be perfect but you know

01:11:11   like the Apple watch on LTE can still only do certain things and it still can only I can only

01:11:19   input into it in like with my voice and stuff which isn't always that useful or works that well

01:11:24   so I kind of get it do I want it no like even if it was available here like it's not really a thing

01:11:31   that I want to get, but I think I understand the appeal for it and why people might want

01:11:39   it with the time well spent idea, right? But without going nuclear on it and being like,

01:11:47   "I won't have a phone," or like, "I'm going to get a dumb phone and just send text messages,"

01:11:52   right? I think I understand it.

01:11:55   I really don't. Why wouldn't you just get a smartwatch at this point?

01:12:01   Because as far as I said, I don't think smartwatches are capable enough.

01:12:04   Like, I think people say to themselves,

01:12:08   "It would be really great to go out all day and not have my phone with me and just have my Apple Watch."

01:12:14   But I don't think as many people that say that are doing that.

01:12:18   Well, okay. I'm doing it, but I'm not many people.

01:12:22   Alright, so tell me, I want to understand, because if you're doing this, you haven't told anybody that you're doing it.

01:12:27   So explain to me what kind of things you're doing with just your Apple Watch.

01:12:31   Nothing, that's the point. But if I need to be reached, I can be reached.

01:12:35   No, no, no, like where are you going and what are you doing when you just have your Apple Watch on?

01:12:40   To the park, to the mall, driving around.

01:12:42   Okay.

01:12:43   Like the usual, like when I'm not expecting like a work thing to occur,

01:12:50   like I can tell John Ryan I'm going out and I'm gonna be unavailable for like three hours.

01:12:56   And you have no phone?

01:12:58   No phone. No phone. Just a watch. Yeah.

01:13:01   But again, it's like, it's the idea of that there are, of course there are people that do it,

01:13:06   but I don't think as many people that think that they could do it actually end up doing it.

01:13:10   Right? But because it's the, when you're faced with the reality of like, no phone,

01:13:16   I don't think I would be completely comfortable with that.

01:13:19   because if something does happen that I need to deal with

01:13:23   it's tricky to deal with

01:13:26   with using a smartwatch where it would maybe be a little bit easier with a device

01:13:29   like this

01:13:30   but frankly like I'm not going to do either of those things

01:13:34   right? I'm not going to get a tiny small phone in the same way that I'm also

01:13:38   not gonna

01:13:39   be that comfortable with just doing everything from a smartwatch. I am super

01:13:42   enthused

01:13:43   to hear that you are doing this. I think that that is really cool. I wish I could

01:13:47   be like you but I

01:13:48   I can't be. It's not how I'm built.

01:13:51   Yeah, I think a good part of that is the fact that our businesses run in two different ways.

01:14:01   I don't need to constantly check my email or reply to many people.

01:14:08   Like, I'm terrible at email and that sort of helps.

01:14:11   Like, the way that we work is different.

01:14:15   Also, like, I can drive around my area without having to use maps.

01:14:22   So I could use maps on the watch, but it's really not as good if you need turn-by-turn

01:14:26   directions.

01:14:27   So there's a bunch of factors that I think are at play here.

01:14:31   But yeah, I've been doing it quietly, and I just sort of thought that everybody was

01:14:35   doing it.

01:14:36   Now I realize that maybe not everybody is doing it.

01:14:38   I had an LTE Apple Watch for a year and never did it.

01:14:41   unless it was like a super short thing,

01:14:43   like I'm going down to the corner store.

01:14:46   - You know, the biggest complaint that I have

01:14:49   is I cannot connect my Apple Watch to my car Bluetooth.

01:14:54   I've seen some people have success with it, but I did not.

01:14:57   The Apple Watch gets stuck

01:14:59   in the middle of the pairing process.

01:15:01   I really love to have, because I have music,

01:15:04   I have podcasts on my watch, I can make phone calls.

01:15:07   Why wouldn't you let me connect to my car Bluetooth?

01:15:10   I think it's some kind of weird problem with context exchange information between the car and the watch.

01:15:17   Also, if there's a device that can act as a Bluetooth dongle between my...

01:15:23   So my car has a USB-A port, has an AUX headphone jack type port.

01:15:33   There must be some kind of device that pretends to be Bluetooth headphones for the watch,

01:15:40   but actually passes audio through to the car.

01:15:43   If it exists, please let me know

01:15:45   because I really wanna connect my Apple Watch

01:15:47   to my car somehow.

01:15:48   So, also it should be a native feature.

01:15:51   I don't know why Apple is not making that a native feature,

01:15:53   but still, if you have a workaround, please let me know.

01:15:56   - How long is the battery life on LTE?

01:15:59   - It gets, I've noticed that if I go out for like,

01:16:04   usually like, let's say an hour and a half,

01:16:08   It consumes between 10 and 15 percent.

01:16:12   Okay. So it's a much more significant drawer of power.

01:16:16   Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure.

01:16:18   Figured.

01:16:18   But also with two watches it's not really a problem, but that's a whole other discussion.

01:16:23   [Laughter]

01:16:25   I'm learning a lot of things about you today.

01:16:27   Mm-hmm.

01:16:28   You're a prankster.

01:16:30   [Laughter]

01:16:32   You have many Apple watches. You run around Rome with no phone.

01:16:37   I learned a lot of things about you today.

01:16:41   But okay, I mean, so basically what, the core of what I think is interesting is what you're

01:16:48   doing but it's just you're doing it with that device.

01:16:52   I think that there is something interesting in this Palm device.

01:16:55   Do I think it is $349 worth of interesting?

01:17:00   No I don't.

01:17:01   I don't think that.

01:17:02   How much?

01:17:03   $349.

01:17:04   Yeah that's way too much.

01:17:05   Which is, you know, for a little, it's not, it's like, you know, it is, it is, I think,

01:17:10   probably fairly priced for what you get when you look at how much phones cost now. But

01:17:15   I don't know if I would want to do it for $349. You know what I mean? Like, I feel like

01:17:19   that might be past the level that I'm, well, it is past the level that I'm willing to pay

01:17:25   for something like this. But I can appreciate what they're trying to do. I just don't know

01:17:32   how much of a market it is specifically because it is currently locked to one carrier in the US.

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01:18:44   show and Relay FM.

01:18:45   All right, to wind to wind out this week's show, we're gonna talk about Adobe event where

01:18:51   they previewed Photoshop CC coming to the iPad and it's not Photoshop for the

01:19:00   iPad it's not Photoshop lite this is real like adult version like belt and

01:19:07   and tie and says like the real Photoshop not kids it will be right like will be

01:19:14   they're rebuilding it that they're final cutting it right like it's that they're

01:19:18   going back to the beginning basically I'm rebuilding Photoshop but this is the

01:19:23   same version that will exist on desktops but they're adding in some more complex

01:19:27   features later on right like but this is the the ground-up redesign of Photoshop

01:19:32   yeah and that's what I mean like this this is not going to be separate from

01:19:35   what you can run on the desktop so I mean like it's the it's the real

01:19:39   Photoshop experience it's a new experience to your point that they are

01:19:41   sort of going back and rebuilding Photoshop and starting with the most

01:19:45   important things but the Verge got their their hands on it there's a video and

01:19:49   stuff in the show notes where they covered it and is much much closer to

01:19:54   the Photoshop we know today than anything we've seen from Adobe Adobe in

01:19:58   the past and this feels like a really really big deal Jason Snell wrote a

01:20:03   thing of a macworld linked to as well talking about the importance of this to

01:20:07   the iPad as a platform you know when you think about professional tools it's a

01:20:12   It's a really wide range of things, right?

01:20:14   So in our context, it's things like Logic,

01:20:17   or Adobe Audition, or Forecast, audio tools.

01:20:21   But if you're in the design world,

01:20:23   Photoshop is the king, and has been for a really long time.

01:20:28   You have Photoshop, and you have Illustrator,

01:20:30   and InDesign, the whole creative cloud.

01:20:32   But Photoshop is at the hub of so much of that work.

01:20:34   And it's one of those things,

01:20:35   like it makes perfect sense on the iPad,

01:20:38   something you can take with you,

01:20:39   something you have to pencil.

01:20:40   And Adobe's spending real time and real money

01:20:45   to make this happen.

01:20:46   And I think it's super exciting.

01:20:49   We can get into some of the details,

01:20:51   but it is going to be part of the Creative Cloud platform.

01:20:54   So if you're like me and you already pay for Creative Cloud,

01:20:57   you can just add this.

01:20:59   It's not a separate purchase or anything.

01:21:01   You'll just have access to it.

01:21:02   They have a new Cloud PSD file format.

01:21:05   So the old PSD format is compatible with this,

01:21:09   but it lets you kind of more easily move

01:21:12   a Photoshop document back and forth

01:21:14   with either Adobe's cloud solution

01:21:17   or they showed it using the Files app on the iPad.

01:21:21   So you can have things in Dropbox or iCloud Drive

01:21:24   and bring them in as well.

01:21:25   So like it's integrated with other Apple stuff

01:21:28   where Adobe in the past hasn't always done that.

01:21:31   They've really sort of been their own island

01:21:33   for a lot of this stuff,

01:21:34   but they're integrating into what's there.

01:21:36   It's just super exciting.

01:21:38   As someone who, I use Photoshop not every day,

01:21:40   but I use it at least once a week for various things,

01:21:43   having that on the iPad is a good move.

01:21:48   It feels good, I'm excited about it.

01:21:50   What about y'all?

01:21:51   - I think it's, this is probably the first step

01:21:58   of a major shift that is occurring.

01:22:04   we're going to see a bunch more desktop apps and entire suites of desktop programs have

01:22:13   real iPad versions. Not companion versions, not mobile adaptations, but the actual thing,

01:22:20   the same thing on every platform. And I think it's a clear direction, if you look at what

01:22:26   Microsoft is doing, if you look at what Apple is doing for now, just the other way around

01:22:30   with iPad apps coming to the Mac, I think it's clear that we are moving toward a future

01:22:36   where the same application can be used in multiple places. And it changes, the application

01:22:44   changes depending on the kind of computer that you're using. So Photoshop on a Mac

01:22:49   uses a trackpad, uses a cursor. On the iPad you get a pencil and you get touch controls,

01:22:54   and there's going to be differences between them. But the main idea of, it's the same

01:22:59   experience and it's based on a cloud, so you don't need to worry about file management,

01:23:04   and it's based on a subscription, so you fix the problem of how do you let people pay for

01:23:09   the same thing on multiple platforms, and the idea is people really care about an application,

01:23:14   they subscribe to it. It doesn't scale for every single app for sure, but for this type

01:23:19   of important desktop pro apps, I think it's totally the answer. Something that you depend

01:23:24   on, something you want to pay for, you pay for on a regular basis and you get access

01:23:28   on every platform. I feel like there's multiple pieces of different technologies, different

01:23:37   concepts that are sort of all coming together right now in this transition that will occur

01:23:42   over the next three years, at least. These things take time. But the idea of we're moving

01:23:49   away from this past of you have the computer and you have the phone and you have the tablet

01:23:56   but toward a space where the phone is the computer that is always with you, and the

01:24:02   computer and the tablet are sort of the same thing.

01:24:05   The idea would be you have a smaller screen that is always with you, you have a small

01:24:11   screen that's on your wrist, and you have the big screen that for some people could

01:24:15   be a laptop, for other people could be a tablet, and maybe both of them could be connected

01:24:21   to an external display on your desk if the rumors about the next iPod Pro are correct.

01:24:26   So I think I'm excited about this idea of the desktop and the big screen. Maybe it's

01:24:35   not right to call it a desktop anymore, but the big screen experience is becoming something

01:24:40   that is more fluid, more flexible, and can move across form factors while keeping consistency

01:24:48   in the apps, in the software that you use, and ultimately in the things that you're able

01:24:53   to accomplish.

01:24:56   I'm very excited about this. I use Pixelmator right now because I'm able to work on things

01:25:06   on my Mac and on my iPad, right, because it syncs with iCloud Drive. But I find Pixelmator's

01:25:12   UI on the iPad increasingly frustrating.

01:25:16   Everything's buried, it's organized in a very weird way.

01:25:20   I feel like it takes 20 taps to do things that

01:25:24   take one single click on the Mac. I'm

01:25:28   looking for something which will provide me

01:25:32   with consistency in user experience because it's definitely possible

01:25:36   to do that. The screens are so big on my 12.9 inch

01:25:40   iPad like I can I can do all of this stuff right if this UI shows on the

01:25:44   MacBook why can't I see it on my iPad like you know and so that's why I'm

01:25:48   really excited I will be signing up for this on day one to use it like as soon

01:25:53   as possible because I I can you know Photoshop is a lot more confusing to me

01:25:59   than then pixelmator but I'm keen to learn it because I will have

01:26:04   consistency of experience and that is so important you know I really believe in

01:26:09   in having that across devices.

01:26:12   Like it is something that I value greatly.

01:26:14   It's one of the reasons that I love iOS so much

01:26:17   because my phone and my main like work device, my iPad,

01:26:22   they use apps that are similar

01:26:25   and they use consistency and user experience

01:26:28   and user interface.

01:26:29   So it doesn't feel like a jarring change

01:26:32   when I go from device to device.

01:26:34   Like I like that feeling, right?

01:26:36   it's why I am personally excited about the potential future of what marzipan

01:26:42   will bring in that I may see more consistency amongst the applications that

01:26:48   I use so I am very excited for this especially because this this really says

01:26:56   good things for me for the iPad just in general because Adobe will not have

01:27:03   entered into this project without Apple telling them it was worth them doing it.

01:27:09   Right, yeah, and they made a big deal out of it, like there's a press release on

01:27:13   the Apple website. They're both making a big deal out of each other, right?

01:27:17   Yes, you're right, Phil Schiller was on stage at Adobe Max, like they need each other for this, right?

01:27:23   Like Apple needs Adobe to do this and Adobe needs Apple to continue pushing

01:27:29   the iPad. They are both very aware that this is a mutually assured production. I don't

01:27:36   know, I didn't think of something in time. I'm sorry, I apologize. But they are very

01:27:43   aware of needing each other to make this beneficial. And I'm sure that at this point now, Adobe

01:27:50   is helping Apple with future iPad designs. There are specific things which Adobe can

01:27:57   ask for and Adobe's Chief Product Officer kind of let slip on the broadcast that the

01:28:02   Apple Pencil is going to be more and more important over time and I am very sure that

01:28:07   Adobe has had some kind of input on this right because Adobe is saying you know we're effectively

01:28:13   going to tell all of our customers to buy an Apple Pencil so we would like a button on it.

01:28:18   That's that's effectively what I think has occurred here so yeah I'm very enthused about

01:28:26   this just from a software perspective and a hardware perspective so bring it

01:28:32   on right like I'm super keen to see these next iPads and then I can't wait

01:28:36   for this software. It's an exciting time no doubt. If you want to find links to

01:28:42   the stuff we talked about this week you can check out your podcast app or you

01:28:47   can go over to our website relay.fm/connected/214. While you're there

01:28:52   you can do a couple of things you can get in touch with us via email for

01:28:56   feedback or follow up or if you just want to say something nice to your favorite podcast

01:29:00   host, drop us an email. Or you can find us over on Twitter. You can find Vitici@viticci.

01:29:06   Federico, of course, is the editor-in-chief of MaxStories.net. There's a really cool story

01:29:13   on Max Stories right now about old iOS apps that Apple made, that Federico assigned to

01:29:19   me, that was very challenging but a lot of fun. There's some other stuff too, but you

01:29:24   You really just want to read the Apple history column.

01:29:26   That's the best stuff.

01:29:27   You can find Myke on Twitter as I-M-Y-K-E

01:29:30   and Myke is the host of a bunch of shows here at Relay.fm.

01:29:34   Relay.fm/shows.

01:29:36   If you like connected, you'll find something else

01:29:39   that you'll love, I'm sure.

01:29:40   You can find me there as ISMH and I write 512pixels.net.

01:29:45   And until our next episode, gentlemen, say goodbye.

01:29:50   - Arrivederci.

01:29:51   - See you in New York, everybody.

01:29:53   - Adios.