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Connected

207: The Best Easter Egg is You

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0:00:00(upbeat music)

0:00:02Hello and welcome to Connected, episode 207.

0:00:12It is made possible this week by our sponsors,

0:00:14Casper, Pingdom, and Green Chef.

0:00:17I'm your host, Stephen Hackett,

0:00:18and I am joined again by the two co-hosts of Connected.

0:00:21We're all back together two weeks in a row.

0:00:23Up first, we have Federico Vittucci.

0:00:25- Hey, how you doing?

0:00:27- I'm great.

0:00:29I'm glad you're here and we have Myke Hurley.

0:00:31- It's a new day, here we are.

0:00:33- It's a new day, it's a new.

0:00:35That's a song, right?

0:00:37That's totally a song. - Yeah, I'm feeling good.

0:00:38- Yeah, yeah.

0:00:40Well, I want to, we need to clarify something

0:00:43before we do the show.

0:00:44People were worried about me.

0:00:47Someone even thought that I was drunk on the show.

0:00:51- Well, no, I don't think they thought you were drunk,

0:00:52they thought you were hungover.

0:00:54- Oh, okay, yeah, hungover, okay.

0:00:54- Which is slightly different, you know?

0:00:56Yeah, but I just had a cold. I don't know if you can still feel the last bits of the cold,

0:01:05which is basically gone at this point, I'm doing much much better, but it was just a cold.

0:01:09I don't drink before podcasts, that's not professional, you know?

0:01:15-And especially... -I think you did one time.

0:01:18Did I?

0:01:19If I cast my memory back, I am very confident there was an episode of

0:01:23at least the prompt where you were drinking wine.

0:01:26I was drinking wine but I was not drunk. That's different.

0:01:30Yeah, but this is one of those things where it's like, you were also a little bit looser

0:01:36than usual. I remember this. I don't know what episode it was and I probably would never

0:01:41find it, but there was an episode where you were drinking wine and you were having a little

0:01:45bit of a holiday party I think.

0:01:47Well, even if I was a hangover you wouldn't know because you wouldn't notice. I'm very

0:01:51professional like that with my drinking. So maybe, maybe, maybe I've done many episodes

0:01:58of Connected and I was hungover and you didn't know.

0:02:01You would never know.

0:02:04Last week I just had a cold. So thank you for warning about me but I'm fine, I think.

0:02:11Moving on, can we do follow up?

0:02:14I'm glad you're okay.

0:02:16Last week we were speaking about the Aqua Screenshot Library put together and we talked

0:02:20about how I wanted…

0:02:21world-famous, internet-famous Aqua Screenshot Library.

0:02:25Yeah, it's done many hundreds of thousands of page views.

0:02:29I knew you before your Aqua Screenshot Library, so don't forget about us.

0:02:35I knew Aqua before it became famous.

0:02:38Do you feel, I will ask you, because I'll just say this has been linked all over the

0:02:43web this week.

0:02:44It's like, when you look back at it, it's like this is one of those perfect little things

0:02:48that when a big website needs a link for the day, it's like perfect food for that, right?

0:02:56Because it was on Lifehacker and stuff where it's like they need something interesting

0:02:59to link to today and someone had found this and they're like, "This is perfect."

0:03:04It's one of those, it's like candy for these bigger websites, which I think is probably

0:03:09why it's getting linked to everywhere and doing hundreds of thousands of page views,

0:03:12right? In hindsight, it's like, "Oh yeah, this is perfect for that," which is the same

0:03:16as the desktop wallpapers. Same idea, right? Like, these things are very interesting to

0:03:21nerds, so big websites find them, they find them interesting, and then they put it in

0:03:26their selection to link to later on, which is great. Does the fact that it has done hundreds

0:03:31and thousands of page views now in like a week make it feel like it was worth the time

0:03:38investment to you?

0:03:40Yeah. Yeah. Since it was so well received, and I haven't gotten to all of them, but I

0:03:45I have a bunch of emails and tweets from people like sharing like,

0:03:49Oh, I forgot about this. Oh, I ran this on my first computer.

0:03:52Like people are like genuinely like connecting with it, which is what I wanted.

0:03:57But you, you know, we've all done this, right?

0:03:58You just never know if it's actually going to work.

0:04:00So I'm pumped. I liked your pump. Oh yeah. The connected thing. That's good.

0:04:05You know what I haven't actually done yet is look through tiger,

0:04:08which was my first, my first version. I'm like, I'm flicking through it now.

0:04:12haven't even thought about that. Look at these icons. Ah, iTunes was green! Yeah, the

0:04:18iTunes icon has changed a bunch over the years. Oh gosh, brush metal, brush metal. I

0:04:22always forget about it until I see it and I'm like, oh god, there it is.

0:04:27I always get confused between Cheetah and the other with the

0:04:34name that's like a shoe brand. Puma? Yeah. I always get confused. Which came first?

0:04:41Cheetah, Cheetah was the first one right? Yes I'm loading it now. I've looked at it

0:04:47too much I don't actually know. Yes Cheetah was 10-0, Puma was 10-1. 10-1 okay yeah.

0:04:53Why is the calculator made out of metal? Why isn't it? Why shouldn't it be? I feel

0:04:59like that it would like you press the buttons and they would like maybe

0:05:03scratch a little bit you know. It makes it really heavy like it feels good in the hand.

0:05:07So yeah, it's done well.

0:05:11Which is really exciting.

0:05:12You chose Songs of Innocence as the album!

0:05:15I did!

0:05:16That's very good!

0:05:18That's very good, I'm ruining all your Easter eggs now.

0:05:21That's probably the biggest Easter egg, honestly.

0:05:23That's very good.

0:05:24No, no, no, no.

0:05:25The best Easter egg is you.

0:05:28In the, uh, in the FaceTime booth.

0:05:33That's the best.

0:05:34There are some incredible pictures here.

0:05:35I haven't looked at any release in as much depth as I'm looking at this one where I'm

0:05:39looking at every image. So now I'm noticing all of the things I've kind of just like perused

0:05:44through, you know, but now I'm looking at like keyboard and mouse preferences, which

0:05:48I wouldn't necessarily look at. But here I am now going through all of this. And it's

0:05:53funny because I probably look to all of this, right? Because I was so interested in that

0:06:02can probably like my you know my first Mac I was more interested in than any

0:06:06other computer right like I wanted to look at everything and see what

0:06:09everything did because I was new to it right so I would go in and I probably

0:06:13would have spent a little bit of time in like date and time system preferences

0:06:19for whatever reason just like what is this what's in here so yeah this is nice

0:06:23I'm pleased that you did this project and I am very very happy that it's

0:06:26getting a lot of attention but you do have some things that you're working on

0:06:30with it though right? I do so I we mentioned last week I wanted to have the

0:06:35inclusion of a page where you could compare a single image across all of its

0:06:40releases like what did like the main screen assistant preferences look from

0:06:44the public beta all the way through High Sierra. Which is a super important thing

0:06:48for the project right like it makes sense for like if people are looking at

0:06:55this for historical purposes which they ultimately will end up doing that you

0:07:00would want to be like what happened to calendar all the way across like yes

0:07:05important to see yeah absolutely and I had an example of that in the blog post

0:07:09but I hand-built that gallery and I needed a way to do this programmatically

0:07:13because with 1500 screenshots it was already a lot of work to do what's up

0:07:17there now and in starting to build those manuals like very quickly without a hand

0:07:22and so I just said on the show if anyone is WordPress dev maybe knows how I could

0:07:28this get in touch and a couple people emailed me but I owe a big thanks to Warren Harding,

0:07:33not the dead president turns out. He's a really nice guy in Australia.

0:07:36That's really exciting for a second man.

0:07:38Yeah he's not dead he's just been learning PHP all these years.

0:07:42Maybe he should have been dead.

0:07:45Please email Federico directly about that comment.

0:07:53PHP is a fate worse than death.

0:07:56So, Warren has built me a tool to do this, and I hope to get this rolled out in conjunction

0:08:04with the Mojave screenshots coming up.

0:08:07But it's working in beta, and it does what I want it to do.

0:08:10So I know Warren's a listener, so thank you again.

0:08:13Thank you to everyone who emailed and I talked with Warren, picked up the ball and ran with

0:08:18it.

0:08:19And it's really great, and I'm excited to roll it out.

0:08:20So keep an eye out for that.

0:08:21I'll be sure to talk about it here.

0:08:23It's really, it's gonna be cool.

0:08:26So I'm gonna have it as a single page

0:08:27where you can go in and compare screenshots.

0:08:30Select the one you want and look through all the releases.

0:08:32But I got some metadata stuff to deal with

0:08:35to get it all to work, so.

0:08:36- I really like how you say that name, by the way.

0:08:40- What?

0:08:41- Warren.

0:08:42- Warren, yeah, there's not, there's no,

0:08:44there's just one long letter, really.

0:08:45- It's just one sound, it's just a sound.

0:08:47- Warren.

0:08:48- I guess I would say Warren, right?

0:08:50- Yeah, I can't do that.

0:08:50- Like, Johnnie Kavula, Warren.

0:08:52- Warren. - Warren.

0:08:52Warren Hart. Warren Harting. Thanks, Warren. Thank you, Warren. Warren, I'm expecting Warren

0:09:03is very happy right now. We apologize for ruining it. I mean, he's alive, so he must

0:09:08be happy. And learning PHP. Oh, boy. All right. Well, I'm looking forward to the library updates.

0:09:21I've played around with the exclusive beta and I'm pleased that you're taking steps to

0:09:28improve because I mean, of course we're joking about PHP, but the fact that for historical

0:09:36purposes people are going to use this resource, which is a horrible word, but it is what it

0:09:40is and several years from now, if you keep it up to date, people will use it and it will

0:09:46become like a destination when you, you know, when you search for, what's the name of that

0:09:52website that used to exist? Sort of had a thing similar to yours, but I don't think

0:09:58it's updated anymore. I don't think the website still exists.

0:10:00There was like, there was like GUI library.

0:10:02Yeah, I'm thinking of guidebook, but with the logo was like GUI, something like that.

0:10:09Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right. That's, that's what it is.

0:10:11So if you can sort of turn your screenshot library into this sort of modern version of

0:10:17that, I think that will be great.

0:10:19So I'm really happy that you're continuing to update it, and I was really happy to see

0:10:23it linked in a bunch of places.

0:10:25I have to apologize to you, Stephen, though, that I didn't look on Italian websites, because

0:10:31I really don't follow them.

0:10:33So you may have been linked on a bunch of Italian blogs, but I wouldn't know, because

0:10:37I don't read them.

0:10:38I think it was on Sunday, one of the big referrals was a couple of websites in Russia, which

0:10:42was exciting. I tried reading them with Google Translate and it struggled.

0:10:46But they seemed to like it.

0:10:47We could have had a Frederick Tendrils moment with you.

0:10:50Yeah. Yeah. They seemed happy with it in Russian. So, it's good.

0:10:55Yeah. I hear they're happy with the Americans lately.

0:11:02Swiftly moving on. Thank you to everybody who has become a Relay FM member. We will

0:11:08We will be releasing our member special on September the 4th and we are going to be talking

0:11:13about the wonderful movie, The Pirates of Silicon Valley, so you can tune in to hear

0:11:18what I think is going to be pretty varied reviews from all of us, so that's going to

0:11:22be a lot of fun.

0:11:23And I'm hoping that you will also hear, because we are actually recording that today, so this

0:11:28is why I'm talking about it, like it's, I don't know what's happened yet, because I

0:11:31don't.

0:11:32I'm hoping that Steven will be able to provide some historical context and an accuracy rating

0:11:38for the movie itself.

0:11:40So you can sign up now, there's a link in the show notes where you can sign up to give

0:11:43$5 a month to Connected, which we'd greatly appreciate.

0:11:46But if you want to find out more about Relay FM membership or maybe donate to another show

0:11:50or all the great shows, go to relay.fm/membership to learn more.

0:11:56Last week we mentioned the app Opener, and I think this was in context of opening a Twitter

0:12:01link in tweetbot?

0:12:04It was to open a twitter link in the twitter app.

0:12:08So in tweet terrific and tweetbot now, you can no longer find out who liked to tweet

0:12:14or whatever.

0:12:15So this is a way that if you open in the share extension the link to the tweet, you can then

0:12:22have it automatically default to open in twitter or any other app that you so choose.

0:12:28So do we actually need opener for this?

0:12:30We had some feedback that maybe you could do it other ways.

0:12:33Well, yeah, there's a—we got an email or a tweet—I think it was a tweet—about the

0:12:40fact that there's a—in the Twitter—actually, in the Tweetbot app or in the Twitter app,

0:12:46there's an "Open in Safari" sort of activity item as an action extension, but it's not

0:12:54really an action extension because it's not available in other apps.

0:12:57still the idea that you can open in Safari from Tweetbot and by doing that you will be

0:13:04redirected to the Twitter app because iOS uses universal links, so instead of opening

0:13:10the link in Safari you will be taken into the Twitter app because the system sees the

0:13:15Twitter.com link and it says "well, you have the Twitter app installed so instead of opening

0:13:20Safari in a webview I will take you to that tweet inside of the native client".

0:13:27That seems to be working for some people, but speaking from personal experience, this

0:13:32is an unreliable solution.

0:13:34It is so random.

0:13:36It seems so random that sometimes I open a link, and this happens with Twitter, this

0:13:41happens with YouTube, it happens with Safari View Controller sometimes, other times it

0:13:46doesn't, but Universal Links, as much as I kind of like the concept of the link is tied

0:13:53to a page inside of a native app, the implementation in iOS so far has been unreliable for me.

0:14:03I don't know what the issue is. I don't know if something perhaps changed since Universal

0:14:09Links were introduced with iOS 9, that would be three years ago, four releases ago. But

0:14:16I prefer to use OpenR because it always works and I know what I'm doing. So it's an extra

0:14:21tap, actually not if you're using AutoOpen, which I described last week, but yes, you

0:14:27would need to have OpenAir installed. But in my experience, using OpenAir is much more

0:14:31reliable than sort of the lottery of universal links, and also it allows you to open links

0:14:37in many other third-party alternatives, not just the official clients. So back in the

0:14:44day when ProTube was available, the excellent YouTube client that is not available anymore,

0:14:51I used Opener to open YouTube links in ProTube and that was amazing. But I still use Opener

0:14:58for a bunch of other types of links, including, you know, Tweetbot and Twitterific for example

0:15:04are options that Universal links do not support. So this may work for you, or may not. If it

0:15:11doesn't I seriously recommend trying out Opener. Yeah I've been very happy with it

0:15:17I like it a lot it's a great little app and it's good to set up with other

0:15:21things right so as you're saying like YouTube and stuff like that because if

0:15:26YouTube opens in Safari View Controller it's never signed in anymore right so

0:15:31then I have that whole problem but then I try and sign in and then it opens the

0:15:35YouTube app and I'm not where I want to be because you know like I see a see a

0:15:39video and I add it to my watch later queue or whatever and it's just never it

0:15:41just doesn't work the way I want it to so with opener I don't have to worry

0:15:45about this stuff because it can just pass the URLs over to the application

0:15:48and open it where I need so I understand yes it would be wonderful if universal

0:15:53linking did this accurately and if it does for you then awesome but I have

0:15:58found that is not the case so that's why I am enjoying the use of opener very

0:16:03much in our post API destruction world.

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0:17:58Alright, so there is an update out today for the application DUE. All these apps have names

0:18:07that when I say them they all sound the same.

0:18:09Not called DUE, like do something. It's DUE.

0:18:15DUE.

0:18:16Can you say that again, Steven? What's the name?

0:18:19No. They all sound the same. Do, do, do. That's D-O-D-U-E and D-E-W. They all sound the same.

0:18:26Don't forget, teux, D-E-U-X, D-E-U-X. That's my favorite of all the bad names.

0:18:31That's the French one, "tadour." Is that how you say it?

0:18:34"Tadour." I think that's how it's pronounced.

0:18:36"Tadour."

0:18:37"Tadour."

0:18:38"Tadour."

0:18:39"Tadour."

0:18:40You know, I can't remember what it's called, but what is it called? Like, is it the title

0:18:43of a web page, you know, like you can hover over the top and see like the, it has like

0:18:49the name. You know what I'm talking about, the little description in the web page. I'm

0:18:53trying to think. All right. So yeah, you might be able to help me here. When, when we click

0:19:01the bookmark clip that adds a link to the CMS. Yes. And it prefills that field that

0:19:06says Ty Tool. What is that called on a website? I don't know. Let me see.

0:19:14But okay, the reason I'm saying this is that in trying to add the TÜR DÜR website to the

0:19:20show notes, their description is "TÜR DÜR, what DÜR DÜR have TÜR DÜR TÜR DÜR?"

0:19:26which I think is friggin hilarious. Check the show notes, it will be in there. I think that

0:19:30they very much lean into their silly branding, which I like very much. But what is it called?

0:19:36Like you can get that...

0:19:38Like the page title?

0:19:40Yeah, the webpage title.

0:19:42Yeah.

0:19:43Right? That's what I said, but everyone laughed at me.

0:19:45How does... Oh, so that... You were just trying to describe the... where you see the joke.

0:19:54Yeah, because it's not... you can't...

0:19:57The name of the thing was not the joke itself.

0:19:59No.

0:20:00Okay, now I get it.

0:20:02The joke.

0:20:03What is happening?

0:20:04I had to describe where you see the joke and then I could say the joke.

0:20:08I thought the name of the place where you see the joke was the joke.

0:20:14No.

0:20:15So did I.

0:20:16Oh, so that's two of us.

0:20:17Now we've cleared that up.

0:20:19That's all definitely staying in, by the way.

0:20:21Let me talk about...

0:20:22Of course it is, I wanted to.

0:20:23Let me talk about Dew, which is one of my very, very favorite iOS apps.

0:20:27And I've been using this beta for a few months now.

0:20:31I really love it.

0:20:34I do. I love it very, very much.

0:20:35And the reason so Dew is an application which I mostly use for like

0:20:41quick reminders or repeating tasks that don't feel worthy of going into

0:20:47my task manager. So this could be stuff.

0:20:49Remember, so not not and remember the milk.

0:20:52No, because there's no milk.

0:20:53Actually, do you know what? If I do need to remember milk, it goes in here.

0:20:56So like if I need to buy milk, it goes in here because stuff like buy milk,

0:21:01in my opinion, should not be going into your task manager, because that's just.

0:21:04But what if your task manager is remember the milk and you have a task

0:21:08and that manager called remember the milk?

0:21:10Then you've made a bad decision.

0:21:11You've made it.

0:21:12You've already made a bad decision, though, if you're using that.

0:21:15So I don't trust any of the choices that somebody could make.

0:21:17Don't if they were using the milk.

0:21:20I would, there is a reason we're not doing the iPhone home screen episode this year and

0:21:25that is part of it. So stuff like take out trash, like buy groceries or do your exercises,

0:21:33take your pills, those kinds of things that you may need to do every day and have to be

0:21:38done. And one of the best features of Dew is the fact that it will keep reminding you

0:21:45on an interval of an item until it is marked "completed".

0:21:50And this isn't something that a lot of applications will do.

0:21:53It will just keep reminding you.

0:21:55And a little while ago they added in some features to snooze the action from the reminder,

0:22:03just from a very simple list of options that you have.

0:22:06But my very favorite feature about JU 3.0, this is taking advantage of some notification

0:22:12changes that were made I think in iOS 11 where now you can instead of just taking

0:22:19the notification and saying remind me in a preset time like 10 minutes or 30

0:22:23minutes and then it goes away and then comes back again in 10 minutes or 30

0:22:26minutes you can now tap on it and you can press a button to custom snooze for

0:22:32as long as you want you can just keep tapping these intervals so you could be

0:22:35like one hour one hour one hour save and then it will remind you in three hours

0:22:40You kind of have to see this to understand what I mean and there's a link to the Mac stories review in our show notes

0:22:46But what this does is it means that I get those notifications and instead of me just saying like a preset time for it to remind

0:22:53Me again, I can tell it exactly when I want it to remind me again. It is a wonderful wonderful

0:22:58Update to the application. This is a really excellent feature

0:23:02It also has haptic feedback and a pure black theme for all the phones, but the custom snooze stuff

0:23:09it is really wonderful. And I haven't seen it implemented in any app like the way it's

0:23:15done here. Basically they're creating like a custom keyboard, is that right Federico?

0:23:20For that it's almost like a keyboard as opposed to just preset options.

0:23:25It looks like a keyboard but it's actually a custom view that you can load below the

0:23:31content of a notification. I think that's what's happening here.

0:23:34And there aren't many apps that I've seen that do stuff like this.

0:23:37No, it's actually really clever.

0:23:40I think I've seen only one other instance of a developer using

0:23:43this API.

0:23:45It's perfect for you, because it sort of retains

0:23:48the context of these custom snooze times

0:23:51that you create in the app.

0:23:52You can bring them over to the notification.

0:23:56I'm not sure if it's like a separate view controller

0:24:00or if they're doing something to sort of hack

0:24:03into the-- like a custom key.

0:24:06But it's not a custom keyboard because you need to enable a custom keyboard first.

0:24:10So they're showing a custom UI at the bottom of the notification.

0:24:14And this is super clever.

0:24:15Yeah, this is perfect use of the notification content APIs that they introduced with iOS

0:24:2410 and iOS 11.

0:24:25So I'm impressed.

0:24:27The first time you showed me a screenshot of the beta, I was really surprised because

0:24:33it's not something that you see every day.

0:24:35Most people probably wouldn't care, but as someone who obsesses over these little APIs

0:24:40that you are also forced to, well not forced, but you Myke had to read this stuff last year,

0:24:47you were not forced.

0:24:48You were not forced.

0:24:49For some of that stuff I was forced.

0:24:52I felt like.

0:24:55But I'm always happy to see developers taking advantage of all the little possibilities

0:25:00that iOS offers.

0:25:01So it looks really cool.

0:25:04It is worth noting that Joo is a paid app and those two features, the black theme and

0:25:10the custom snoozing are an in-app purchase for existing customers.

0:25:15So you have to pay $2.99 to get that, but it's worth it in my opinion.

0:25:20It's well worth those features.

0:25:21If you use the application with any kind of frequency, you should upgrade.

0:25:26Trust me, it's worth it.

0:25:27So it's a great app.

0:25:28I love it.

0:25:29So that was an app.

0:25:30You know, that's an app that we expect to be updated, right?

0:25:32I think Joo has been in, you know, it's been an app that's been, had updates and it's taken

0:25:36care of and we know that it exists and so we expect it to be updated.

0:25:39However, something else got updated yesterday that literally nobody, not one person, would

0:25:44have expected would have happened.

0:25:47The Airport Express, do you remember that product?

0:25:49The product Apple explicitly doesn't sell anymore and stopped selling like a good few

0:25:54months ago, got updated to support AirPlay 2.

0:25:58No, no, I gotta say, shout out to Zach Hall from 9to5Mac.

0:26:04He actually expected this.

0:26:06He has been tweeting screenshots.

0:26:08Because there was sort of like-- it looked like a bug

0:26:11since the iOS 11.4 beta.

0:26:14But the Home app showed you like an Airport Express icon

0:26:19as a device that you could add to HomeKit.

0:26:22Well, let me rephrase what I'm saying is my expectation.

0:26:25When they got rid of the product and announced that AirPlay 2 was

0:26:28existing, I don't think anybody expected at that point that the Airport Express,

0:26:33once it stopped being sold, would ever get it right.

0:26:36Like there may have been breadcrumbs which could have could have said it afterwards.

0:26:40But I can't imagine anyone would have really expected that.

0:26:42Not really. Yeah, it's it's so strange to me.

0:26:45And I actually tweeted this this morning that it was strange to me to see

0:26:49a discontinued product get such a major upgrade because I mean,

0:26:53we're talking about Airplay 2, one of the key features of the iOS 11

0:26:57release cycle. Some people said yeah it's totally surprising it doesn't really

0:27:01make sense. Other people said it's more I'm not surprised because it's sort of

0:27:08like sort of like a goodwill gesture from Apple saying we know we discontinue

0:27:14this product so here get this one last feature to you know sort of to as a as a

0:27:21thank you please forgive us. The funny thing though is the Airport Express is

0:27:26now more desirable as a product for me to own. So it doesn't really make sense. Which makes it the

0:27:30weirdest thing. Like I now am more inclined to want to own one because then I would be able to

0:27:37turn any speakers into Airplay 2 speakers. Well you can get one on Amazon pretty cheap,

0:27:44or eBay still pretty cheap. Gray market hasn't caught on yet. I actually bought one when they

0:27:51announced they were going away because I thought this is something that I should have.

0:27:54This is super cool because I mean these Airport Expresses like their whole deal was like you

0:28:03could extend your wireless or you put a printer somewhere but what a lot of people use these

0:28:06specifically for was to stream music from iTunes to like their home speaker system and

0:28:13a bunch of people did that for a really long time and now those users have a modern way

0:28:18to do that you know without having to to go on and buy something else and I had I had

0:28:23I'd always sort of secretly hoped that Apple was going to do something with AirPlay 2 to

0:28:28make it like, make anything an AirPlay 2 speaker because the HomePod doesn't have an output.

0:28:33And I was afraid they were just going to say, well, the answer is get rid of your stereo

0:28:37and buy a HomePod or 6 if you're Federico.

0:28:40But this is a nice way to go about it.

0:28:43So you know, I think if you're in the market, get one before the price goes up on eBay.

0:28:48My guess is they will climb in price now.

0:28:51like between 40 and 50 bucks right now it looks like. Yeah it's about what it is here too.

0:28:55I looked on Amazon Italy last night just out of curiosity and Amazon was out of stock of course

0:29:04but you could buy from third-party resellers on Amazon and a bunch of stores had the

0:29:11Airplay 2 compatible Airport Express up for 400 euros. So yeah. This is that HomePod thing you've

0:29:23been hearing about. Yeah so there's one here 500 pounds on Amazon. Yeah holy cow. Yeah there you go.

0:29:32Used like new for 500 pounds and 4.59 pounds delivery. That's bananas. But to show how

0:29:40versatile this can be, Jason Snell hooked it up to an iPod HiFi, which is about the

0:29:46best thing I've ever seen. Someone on Twitter replied to both of us and said, "Well, you

0:29:50could use..." There used to be this program called Line In where you could take audio

0:29:54in from a machine and make it play through its own speakers. It's like, "Well, what if

0:29:57I did Airport Express to an old iMac and had music playing out of an iMac G3 from Siri?"

0:30:04I was like, "Yeah, you could do that too." They should still make this thing, even if

0:30:09it's not like it does so don't make the airport express again but Apple should

0:30:12make a little airplay to receiver that you can plug into audio so I'm pop mini

0:30:17it's gonna be one day it will be a product right like the Google home mini

0:30:21or something right all the the echo dot like that's what it will be if they ever

0:30:24do it I hope so because it just gives you so much more flexibility and it lets

0:30:29you use existing equipment with the new like interface stuff right that you

0:30:34don't have to go and replace your home stereo or like the system that's wired

0:30:37into your living room. Everyone already replaced their home stereos when the the

0:30:41iPod hi-fi came out. Do you remember? That's true and then again then they

0:30:45went to Sonos and now they're on home pods. People just want to be quit they

0:30:50want to quit being you know director. That is one of my very favorite Steve Jobs quotes

0:30:55right when he says that he replaced his whole home audio system with the iPod

0:31:00hi-fi. It's very good. There's no way that's actually true. It's very good it's

0:31:05story, millionaire, right? Can you imagine what he had? And he's like, "Oh no, I'll just

0:31:09get one of these things." I don't believe you, Steve.

0:31:11Yeah, I just put it all on the curb in a cardboard box. I brought home an iPod, iFi. It is cool.

0:31:17And I mean, props to Apple for doing this. Airplay 2 obviously had such a struggle coming

0:31:22into this world, right? Like, it was delayed, and then it was buggy, and then it was out

0:31:26of the betas, and then they finally shipped it. And to then do the work to make it, you

0:31:33know work on an Airport Express that got updated last like 2012 or something

0:31:37like that's that's that's like legitimately cool and mm-hmm maybe this

0:31:42is why maybe the Airport Express support is what made their play too late that's

0:31:46probably not true but can you imagine if it was but I I really do appreciate it's

0:31:52easy to joke about this but I really do appreciate them doing that because it

0:31:55gives like this thing was cheap when it was news like a hundred bucks or

0:32:00something and like they didn't have to do this right like no one to your point

0:32:04no one like would be upset if this never happened except for Zach but now that it

0:32:08has happened like it it's a nice thing and I'm glad they did it it is I just

0:32:13wanted to mention the airport line was discontinued in April well airplane 2

0:32:20was supposed to be out well before then so the airplane 2 could have been like

0:32:23the parting piece for the airport Express and then maybe it was supposed

0:32:27to be. And then they couldn't make it or they couldn't ship it in time and then

0:32:33it just all sort of fell apart. And the Airport Express was last updated in June

0:32:372012. This is only on the 802.11n style so it looks like a baby white Apple TV

0:32:44with the Airport Express before that like looked like a big wall charger like

0:32:49it plugged and hung from the from the prongs in the wall. This one it looks like

0:32:53I had that one. Yeah, I've got a couple of them. It's Fight. Airport Express Fight.

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0:34:24- Okay, so we're gonna talk about the Mac Mini.

0:34:26We promised last week that we were gonna talk about reasons

0:34:29that we may want to purchase Mac Minis

0:34:33or how we use the existing ones we have.

0:34:36But first I wanted to talk a little bit more

0:34:37about the idea of like who is the Mac Mini customer

0:34:41'cause we're gonna talk about like the way we are going,

0:34:43like the way we want to use them or the way that we do.

0:34:46But on a sort of a broader landscape,

0:34:49some feedback we got-- - Hang on a second.

0:34:51Are we doing follow-up as a topic?

0:34:54- It's a-- - No.

0:34:56- It's just like a little,

0:34:58it's like a little follow-up icing on a topic.

0:35:01- Interesting.

0:35:03- Nachmani got promoted from follow-up to a topic,

0:35:05but there's still a little follow-up DNA left in it, so.

0:35:08- Okay.

0:35:09- Just a couple examples.

0:35:11neural sandwich on Twitter which I'm sure is his given name wrote the Mac

0:35:14mini for me is great if you want to have two matching monitors and not have to

0:35:19deal with laptop clamshell weirdness and it doesn't cost the price of a small

0:35:24home which is kind of funny so I think I have used a laptop in clamshell before

0:35:29back when I had a job that's basically how I use my new book all day every day

0:35:33and that can be definitely weird like it doesn't wake up or don't go to sleep

0:35:38correctly you get home and it's been running in your bag because it woke up

0:35:41when you unplugged it and freaked out. And a Mac Mini is nice because you can

0:35:44have it on the desk and you can have two matching displays. Right now at least if

0:35:50you want to use an external display with like something like an iMac it's not

0:35:54gonna match. You know for a while the iMac and like the LED cinema display and

0:35:58thunderbolt display they all sort of had a similar language and then the iMac

0:36:02sort of moved on and Apple didn't update the displays again. So if this is an

0:36:06important factor for you, which it is for some people, then the Mac Mini kind of is

0:36:11the only option.

0:36:12Just put stickers on everything.

0:36:14Yeah, just cover it all up.

0:36:16There's like camouflage the borders and you can't tell what's going on.

0:36:18I wonder if dbrand make a Mac Mini skin.

0:36:21I'm sure they do.

0:36:25This is like a use case.

0:36:26I can confirm that they make skins.

0:36:28Well, yeah, skins.

0:36:29Well, this is slick wraps that I'm looking at now.

0:36:32They make Mac Mini skins.

0:36:34I don't know if dbrand do though.

0:36:37- Please put those in the show notes.

0:36:38- They will definitely be there.

0:36:40- So, you know, this, you know,

0:36:42I don't know how big of a use case this is,

0:36:43but it's one if you want to use multiple monitors,

0:36:44the Mac Mini is sort of like the easiest way to do that

0:36:48that doesn't involve buying a Mac Pro.

0:36:50Tyler wrote, which I think is interesting too,

0:36:53I had said that desktop switchers

0:36:55weren't real people anymore,

0:36:57but Tyler is one of those people.

0:36:59So I guess I'm weird, but if I got a Mac Mini,

0:37:01it would be, as a switcher,

0:37:03I have very little desire for a notebook,

0:37:05but I'm tired of my desktop PC.

0:37:07So I think Tyler's representative of a group of people

0:37:11that is still out there,

0:37:12so maybe I was wrong to write that off completely.

0:37:15I do think Tyler's probably in the minority here,

0:37:17but there are people who, like I'm a desktop person,

0:37:21Myke, you're a desktop person,

0:37:22and so if we were gonna be switching from a PC to a Mac,

0:37:26then maybe we would be looking at the Mac mini

0:37:29if it were a viable option.

0:37:31- And I understand that,

0:37:32But like when we say things like it is an incredibly small percentage of the market,

0:37:37like that is categorically true because we know things like, for example,

0:37:41that desktops take up 20 percent of the Mac market, which is already a shrinking

0:37:46market. And I can almost definitely assure you that the majority of purchases are

0:37:51IMAX, because otherwise Apple would have updated the Mac Mini more than they did in

0:37:55the last four years.

0:37:57I think something that goes hand in hand with that conversation is like the

0:38:02the span of the iMac. The iMac you can get one that's relatively inexpensive. I

0:38:09mean that's that's different for everybody of course but the iMac starts

0:38:13at something I'm loading the page installing it starts at $1099 that does

0:38:22not have a display has a hard drive but then of course you can go up to

0:38:26something like the 27 inch and spend you know over $3,000 but the iMac is a very

0:38:31broad product and I think one reason it sells so well is it's I think it's kind

0:38:38of like the default option because it has a display and everything and it's

0:38:41it's sort of like the flagship of the desktop line. I think part of it is too

0:38:45is that reach where Myke you can edit podcasts and video on one and then

0:38:51someone can buy a machine that is more or less the same computer and use it in

0:38:55an office and not not really need any of that stuff so they can buy a cheaper one

0:38:59and the idea of a pro Mac Mini may tap into this a little bit where there is

0:39:05like a really basic entry level but if you need to to spec it up into something

0:39:09more powerful you can with a broader range of the Mac Mini's ever had. That's

0:39:13what I'm hoping for with this new machine. So maybe they can take some of

0:39:17that iMac flexibility and apply it to the Mac Mini in which case the sales may

0:39:22come up some if it's if it's a more if it's a more reasonable option to more

0:39:27people. You know right now not many people are buying them because they're

0:39:30old and that means that they're slower than other Macs on the line. That's

0:39:33okay for some people but for others of us, including the three of us I'm

0:39:37going to talk about, it's not quite enough. Lastly I got an email from

0:39:41somebody, they asked to be anonymous, but they support a mixed PC and Mac

0:39:48environment in a big company. So they work for a corporation with an IT

0:39:51department and I had not really considered this but they have a standard

0:39:58like display keyboard and mouse bundle for all of their users and then the

0:40:04users just get a Mac mini or they he sent me the the model number I looked at

0:40:08I was like a small like HP desktop it's kind of like a Mac mini it's like small

0:40:12form factor a little HP and they basically drop in either a Mac mini or

0:40:16an HP depending if the user is getting a Mac or a PC but the rest of the install

0:40:20is standard like standard display standard USB keyboard and mouse standard

0:40:25power like power strip and all that sort of stuff they just drop in a different

0:40:29desktop and that's not it that's not something that I had really thought

0:40:32about but I think it makes sense that that that's sort of like the switcher

0:40:37or like I said unplug my PC and plug into Mac Mini well I think there are use

0:40:41cases where the Mac Mini's like sort of universal inputs and and like small form

0:40:47factor make it more flexible for different types of users.

0:40:52I guess this company is still buying old ones.

0:40:55I emailed them back just last night and hadn't heard anything.

0:40:58So I assume they're still buying just old ones, but I think that's kind of an interesting

0:41:03use case.

0:41:04The iMac is clearly not going to fit into the way they buy computers, but the Mac Mini

0:41:08does so they buy them.

0:41:09I think that's a use case that's worth considering as well.

0:41:13So should we talk about some other use cases?

0:41:16Yes.

0:41:17Puerto Rico, why do you want a Mac Mini?

0:41:19- I miss being able to organize my TV shows

0:41:24and movies with Plex, and I would like to have

0:41:29an actual Plex server that can do transcoding

0:41:32and store multiple gigabytes of content

0:41:37on my local network, so I would use a Mac Mini

0:41:41as a media server for TV shows and movies, for sure.

0:41:44But in general, speaking of encoding video,

0:41:49I would use the Mac Mini so that I

0:41:52can keep using my 2015 MacBook Pro for podcasting,

0:41:57and I don't have to ask Silvia to use her 2016 MacBook Pro

0:42:05whenever I need to encode a video for my iOS reviews.

0:42:10I would love to have a Mac Mini in my house that I can connect to, that I can feed a video

0:42:18file and say you need to encode this video or multiple videos at once in the background

0:42:24in three different formats.

0:42:26Because we use Mac stories when we do videos inside of our stories and especially for my

0:42:30iOS reviews, those videos are actually in three different formats depending on the browser

0:42:36that you use.

0:42:37So we use MP4, WebM and OGG, I think, as a fallback option.

0:42:43And I really don't, you know, I feel bad asking Sylvia to do this thing on her computer because

0:42:48it's faster than mine.

0:42:50I suppose that if a new Mac Mini is released and if I max it out and it's got the new Intel

0:42:55chips inside and I put in tons of RAM and, you know, I should be able to process like

0:43:02five or six small videos at once, which are not super long videos that are like 30 second

0:43:07snippets of, you know, features of iOS, but still that would be really helpful. And I

0:43:14would be able to set up, you know, these automations to sort of look for video files in my Dropbox

0:43:19and maybe use Hazel and kick off these tasks with the shell or automator in the background,

0:43:24it would be fun. And also, it would be a centralized backup location for my MacBook, for Sylvia's

0:43:32Macbook and especially Sylvia, she has a lot of graphics assets and other video files for

0:43:39her job that she needs to archive. So I would very much prefer to have a central location

0:43:45that is not a Synology with its terrible UI and RAID whatever means. Please don't email

0:43:52me, I know you love your Synology, that's fine, I'm happy for you. I want a Macintosh

0:43:57computer.

0:43:58Also specifically, Casey?

0:44:00Yes, Casey.

0:44:01Casey Liss?

0:44:01It's fine. Don't worry about it. We're good.

0:44:03It's fine. Don't worry.

0:44:05It's too late. He's already DM'd you in Slack.

0:44:10So yeah.

0:44:12Entertainment, automation and video encoding for screencasts that we use in our articles,

0:44:21and backup location for my computer, Silvio's computer,

0:44:25and maybe something like an off-site backup of iCloud for library of Google

0:44:31Photos that we can also keep you know copies of those services offline. So three

0:44:38main use cases. Mine are pretty similar honestly like I've been toying

0:44:42around, this is something I've had in the back of my mind for a while but like I

0:44:46would definitely be more keen to do it if and when Apple upgrades the Mac Mini

0:44:50because the Mac Mini is the perfect machine for doing this kind of thing.

0:44:54where I want to have a Mac that is turned on all the time.

0:44:58I don't like to leave my iMac even in sleep.

0:45:02I turn it off every day because it's powering some USB devices

0:45:06that are really expensive, they're audio equipment.

0:45:09And I just prefer it to be off.

0:45:12I just prefer it like again, like I understand that many people

0:45:16think it's fine and I get that, but I just prefer to not have these things

0:45:22on all the time so I turn them all off every day. But I would like to have a machine which

0:45:28is on so it could do things like running some Hazel scripts for me, like processing photos

0:45:33in my Federico Vittucci created but nobody else uses except me Hazel scripts with the

0:45:38Dropbox photo thing that I have running.

0:45:41From six years ago.

0:45:44From like 2014 or something, I don't know, but like I'm still doing that. And I'm sure

0:45:48I could come up with some other stuff too, like ways for me to,

0:45:52especially with shortcuts, the shortcuts app seems to have some restrictions

0:45:57about and I don't think they're going to get fixed

0:45:59about where it can save files.

0:46:02It used to be with workflow, you could save files

0:46:05any way you wanted, right, to Dropbox or Box or iCloud Drive.

0:46:08But shortcuts only allows files to be saved to the shortcuts

0:46:13folder on iCloud Drive.

0:46:14So unless Dropbox creates their own shortcuts actions,

0:46:18which I don't know about that yet, or some enterprising third party could do it,

0:46:23which I believe will happen.

0:46:25But if it wouldn't, then I could have Hazel watching that folder

0:46:28and then moving things where they needed to go, which would work nicely.

0:46:31But there's always things I can do there.

0:46:33I also would like to have a machine that I can like VNC to from my iPad

0:46:37using an app like screens or something to perform basic tasks

0:46:41that I need my Mac to do.

0:46:42There's just some stuff that like Federico's video encoding

0:46:45that I need a Mac to be able to do.

0:46:48It's easier to do on a Mac.

0:46:49So I would, but I would prefer to not have to turn my Mac on

0:46:53specifically to do that one thing.

0:46:55So just being able to use an app to just access

0:46:58that machine would be great.

0:46:59And also network attached storage.

0:47:01I don't really have anything for that.

0:47:02And I just am not keen on having like a Drobo set up

0:47:06to my iMac, but I could totally do that right with a Mac Mini

0:47:11and just attach some external storage to it,

0:47:13hide it away in my office somewhere.

0:47:15and it would just be humming away and I could say things to it and it would be great.

0:47:19So a Mac Mini would be perfect for that.

0:47:21Yeah, so I've got one and my use cases for it definitely overlap what you guys talked

0:47:27about.

0:47:28So I have a mid 2011, it's hooked up to my television, it's like an i5, 8 gigs of RAM

0:47:33and I put SSD in it like 100 years ago.

0:47:35It is hooked up to the TV, we use the Apple TV as like the default input but the Mac Mini

0:47:40is nice for some video stuff that's not easy to get to the Apple TV because I don't have

0:47:43Plex I have Plex set up but don't use it now and we because we have kids like

0:47:47there's still stuff that we watch some DVD and so we have a USB Super Drive

0:47:51plugged into the Mac Mini we can watch DVDs on the on the television it does

0:47:56host a Drobo over Thunderbolt I would have that Drobo here in the office

0:48:01hooked up to the iMac except for the noise that it makes and my wife doesn't

0:48:06love that it sits where the TV sits but it's it's got like six hard drives in it

0:48:10and a fan and I basically have to like power it down anytime I record and that

0:48:15seems like a lot of you know a lot of just back and forth and so it's in the

0:48:18house and I connect to that Mac Mini over Ethernet from the studio and into

0:48:22the house and pull files off of it but that is directly attached to the Mac Mini

0:48:27and I like that because that means I can do file sharing and I can back it up

0:48:31with backblaze because it's directly attached to a Mac. Things that you again

0:48:35you can do with a NAS but are a little bit trickier and can be a little more fragile.

0:48:41I'm not super keen to learn how one of these things works when I know how a Mac works,

0:48:46right? Like, and that's one of the reasons I prefer it, right? Like, I know how a Mac

0:48:49works, I know how the apps that I can download work and they're gonna work with my iPad,

0:48:54like I'm sure you can do all of this stuff with a Synology and probably more in some

0:48:58cases but I don't, I'm not, I'm just not really keen to learn a whole new thing. I would just

0:49:04like to use macOS? Yeah, I like that the Mac just sees it as an external hard drive. The

0:49:11Mac just sees it as a drive and you don't have to use a Drobo, you can use like a Promise

0:49:14RAID or a Pegasus or something. There's other options out there. Promise RAID is a very

0:49:20interesting name. Yeah, is that the name of that company? They promised that your RAID

0:49:26would work. Promise technology. They make some Thunderbolt stuff. So you have some options

0:49:34But I like it just attached to the Mac because I can just use Mac OS to manage everything

0:49:38So that combination the Mac money in the Drobo do several things. I host a big family iTunes library there

0:49:45That's there's not there's some music in that but my wife and I use Apple music now

0:49:48So the music is less important

0:49:50But that iTunes library is set to download any any movies or TV shows that we purchase which is less and less over time, but

0:49:58Occasionally we still do that and and then the I that iTunes library will grab a copy of it

0:50:03That iTunes library is also subscribed to every relay FM show and so I download all of the mp3s

0:50:09We publish and have them on the drobo because you never know when you're gonna need something you

0:50:13Have you ever know but one day but one day I might

0:50:18One day when I build the relay the relay aqua library, I'll be set

0:50:24I have an application running on my Mac mini called print opia

0:50:27So I have like this like brother network printer that does not support air print

0:50:32So I can't print from an iOS to the printer directly

0:50:35There are several different Mac apps that do this print up is just the one that I use and it basically

0:50:40Exposes my brother printer to my iOS devices like through the Mac

0:50:45So I can print from my iPhone or iPad

0:50:47To my brother printer as long as the Mac mini is up and running which is

0:50:51Very handy if you have an older printer or one like mine that just doesn't support air print

0:50:55I have time machine server running from my MacBook Pro

0:50:59There's link in the show notes how to set that up.

0:51:02That's pretty new to Mac OS.

0:51:03It used to only be in Mac OS server.

0:51:05And then content caching.

0:51:07So you can set up a Mac server-- Mac OS server is basically

0:51:12dead-- to cache things like software updates and app store

0:51:17updates and stuff for other machines on the network.

0:51:20It's a little bit evolved to set up, but it's not too bad.

0:51:22There's a KBase article in the show notes.

0:51:24And I have that running.

0:51:26So it downloads a Mac OS update, and then

0:51:29And we have like, you know, my wife's got an iMac now.

0:51:32I've got my iMac Pro and a MacBook Pro and it just allows those downloads to be faster.

0:51:39It's not I really set that up because I want to play with it, but I've left it running

0:51:42because it's helpful.

0:51:43And then because I have a SuperDrive, CD and DVD sharing to the modern Macs on the network.

0:51:49So occasionally, I'll need to pull something off an optical disk.

0:51:51And I have a USB SuperDrive in my office, but I can never seem to find it.

0:51:55and sometimes I just pop it in the one in the house

0:51:57and just share from there.

0:51:59So Myke and Federico, I totally agree with y'all's reasons

0:52:03for wanting a Mac Mini because it is like

0:52:05a really versatile tool and you can,

0:52:08because it's so small and it's effectively silent,

0:52:11you can just leave it running all the time.

0:52:13My Mac Mini only gets rebooted when it freaks out

0:52:15because it's getting older or there's a software update for.

0:52:18Other than that, it's just running all the time

0:52:20and I don't interface with it directly very often.

0:52:23I do have a keyboard and mouse paired to it

0:52:26that sort of live in the entertainment center.

0:52:28Most of the time I just use screen sharing from another Mac

0:52:30and you know how I need to pull something off of it

0:52:32or change the setting.

0:52:33But most of the time it just runs and it hosts that Drobo

0:52:36and does these things for me

0:52:38without really much interference

0:52:39and that's really what I wanted.

0:52:40- Yeah, I'm excited to get back into the idea of

0:52:45I have a server at home doing things in the background

0:52:48and I can issue sort of commands from my iPad with shortcuts

0:52:53which is something that I wasn't able to do.

0:52:54Back when I used to have a Mac Mini in 2012, 2013,

0:52:58I used to have a personal Mac Mini at Mac Mini Colu.

0:53:01And I didn't have workflow to do this sort of

0:53:05remote execution of commands.

0:53:08So I used to rely on these hacks and workarounds,

0:53:11something like saving a command,

0:53:14like a shell command inside of a text file in Dropbox

0:53:17and using Hazel to sort of read the contents of that file

0:53:21and executing the command.

0:53:24Crazy stuff, but with shortcuts now,

0:53:26I could issue like an SSH command from my iPad

0:53:30or from my iPhone, even from Siri,

0:53:32and kick off a series of tasks at home.

0:53:36Do we think there will be an announcement

0:53:38at the September event?

0:53:40Where do we stand?

0:53:41Okay. - No.

0:53:42- All right.

0:53:43- No, I don't think there will be any Macs

0:53:45at September event.

0:53:46I actually don't even think they're gonna mention Mojave

0:53:49in the September event.

0:53:50Is it because you think there's going to be a second event in October or just like...

0:53:55There will be a second event of some kind I believe, either like a press event or like some

0:54:00briefings or just some product releases. Depends on what they're announcing but yeah I don't think

0:54:06that the Mac will get any time in the September event because there's so... you could... that event

0:54:13could just be iPhone, like nothing else right and you would fill an hour because they've got three

0:54:19phones at least that they're debuting so I don't think I don't think that we're

0:54:25gonna see it Stephen I want to ask you actually do you feel that Mojave is as

0:54:31ready as iOS 12 is no I don't interesting because that might be another

0:54:38thing right like maybe Mojave just isn't even coming out in September but for

0:54:41this reason because they're gonna hold it and wait until it yeah so they've

0:54:44been a like over the last several years Apple's done a it's really hard to

0:54:47Dictate or guess what they're gonna do because they've done a bunch of different things they have done

0:54:51Everything in one event they have broken out the Mac stuff separately

0:54:55They've done like you said Mac is like press release stuff or like you know our journalist friends have

0:55:01New Macs, and then there's an embargo and they all drop at the same time

0:55:04And

0:55:07Mac OS has come out the same time as iOS and it's come out later and it just depends on where things are and

0:55:12This year in particular there's not a lot of new stuff in between iOS and Mac OS like when they did

0:55:18When did they upgrade to iCloud drive that goes at iOS 8?

0:55:21So I could so yes, but it didn't have an actual app in iOS 8

0:55:29Right got the app in iOS 9. Yeah your

0:55:32applications upgraded to use iCloud drives storage the

0:55:37The thing that was weird about that is that the Mac version,

0:55:40or whatever, I guess, I don't know what came out that year,

0:55:43but whatever version of Mac OS was that year, it was later.

0:55:48And so you could upgrade to the new Notes,

0:55:50or upgrade to iCloud Drive storage,

0:55:52or something like Mac. - Yeah, I remember that.

0:55:54- Remember that? - Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.

0:55:56- There's nothing like that this year,

0:55:58that as far as I can tell,

0:56:00that is really dependent on both Mac OS

0:56:03and iOS coming out together.

0:56:04So I think the Mac could totally be an October thing. I don't know if there's enough to hold a Mac event

0:56:11I think they could put it in like iPhone keynotes take way less time

0:56:15They used to like if you if you sit and actually watch the iPhone segments

0:56:18They're much shorter than they used to be because a the phones like just evolve

0:56:23Last year every year and like people already know a bunch about them. So you don't have to go

0:56:27like as in depth about like the camera subsystem as they used to because the changes are

0:56:33smaller deltas and people kind of understand what they do and so even if it's like

0:56:38iPhone iPad watch like then I think that's probably like an hour and a half or two hours, but

0:56:44You know, I feel like you're way more likely to see iPhone

0:56:48It's like you probably go like in the in the importance order right iPhone watch iPad then max

0:56:54Like I can't imagine a September event with iPhone and the Mac mini and then like there's an October

0:57:02Yeah, I mean unless the Mac stuff is real short and they use it to open the event and then they move on

0:57:06So we'll see it's not impossible. We'll see I think either way is totally possible

0:57:10But if it's just the Mac mini and like spec bump die max and it may just be press release stuff

0:57:16I don't know. We're way off topic now, but

0:57:18Either way like whatever happens. I think all three of us are interested in what a new Mac mini would be

0:57:24I would really like to replace mine at home

0:57:25I would maybe replace the one that we have at Mac Stadium

0:57:29For live streaming although we just put a new drive in it not too long ago

0:57:32So hopefully we're good to go for a while. So we'll see we'll see how it goes

0:57:36I think a lot of people are watching this and I think if the three of us are

0:57:39Any indication there are users other users like us who want to use it as a home server and office server and?

0:57:46Having something a little bit more powerful

0:57:49And maybe smaller at the same time would be nice for those people. So like I said, like I said last week

0:57:54I'm genuinely excited about the possibility of a new Mac mini

0:57:57Maybe it's just been so long, but I'm pretty pumped about it. Today's show is also brought to you by Green Chef

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0:59:11new. Now Stephen I know that you've got some Green Chef boxes and I'm interested

0:59:15to know what you think. Yes so we did the the gluten-free options. It was nice

0:59:20knowing that that was how things were going to be. Sometimes when you order

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0:59:28that you get what you think you're gonna get. I didn't have that worry

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0:59:43everything was really easy to understand how it went together. You know, I can cook

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0:59:52I start to get worried I'm doing it wrong I didn't have that worry with

0:59:54Green Chef and the meals are great we my wife and I enjoyed them the kids enjoyed

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1:00:28your first box of GreenChef. Our thanks to GreenChef for their support of

1:00:32connected and relay FM. Alright so we've got some more iPhone rumors to round out

1:00:38this week. Yeah. We're just like in it with iPhone rumors. iPhone rumors. I like iPhone rumors. Go for it.

1:00:45I had a pretty tongue-in-cheek blog post the other day of like these four iPhone rumors came out today

1:00:51I was like there's so much stuff

1:00:53so we're gonna start with the

1:00:55The Apple pencil there's been talk of maybe this is the year the Apple pencil gets added to the iPhone Myke

1:01:01I know you and Jason have talked a lot about that on upgrade it makes sense

1:01:05You look at the galaxy note line people really like it. Maybe Apple could do something here the new

1:01:09Again for lack of knowing the real names the iPhone 10 plus is an enormous phone

1:01:14it looks like and it'd be great to be able to take out a pencil and do stuff with it,

1:01:18but it seems like that's maybe not the case after all.

1:01:22Well, it looks like Apple doesn't want any of the serious business happening with the

1:01:29Galaxy Note.

1:01:31I see this gentleman walking around with a Galaxy Note, typing in on the phone with a

1:01:37stylus.

1:01:38I assume they're all editing cells in a spreadsheet.

1:01:41looking all serious with this ass pen. Wouldn't it be easier though? But it would be easier

1:01:46though like to access Google sheets with, I mean that's how I find with my Apple Pencil.

1:01:52So you're saying that you would like to walk around and edit spreadsheets as you're walking

1:01:56with the phone and a st... Sure. Yeah man. Why not do it at a desk? Sometimes I have

1:02:00to get real business done. Because you know I'm a man on the move. You're a man on the

1:02:05move, okay. You know I travel around, I'm a very important businessman. You know? So

1:02:10sometimes I'm out on the prowl.

1:02:13I don't know what I'm talking about anymore.

1:02:14And I need I need access to my Google Sheets.

1:02:18That's just how it is. What can I say?

1:02:19Sure. Well, I hope that someday you will get your wish.

1:02:24I want I want an Apple pencil.

1:02:27I want Apple pencil support on the iPhone.

1:02:29Like I want it for the same reason that I have that.

1:02:31I like it on my iPad, like the ability to write stuff down, drop stuff down

1:02:36and have an additional way to access UI elements would be really important to me.

1:02:41Like I love the Apple Pencil for that.

1:02:43There's no reason I wouldn't want it on an iPad with a vertical 6.5 inch screen,

1:02:49like a sorry, like a what do they call it?

1:02:51Diagonal, diagonal 6.5 inch screen.

1:02:55It's going to be a really, really big screen.

1:02:58It is like I would love to have an Apple pencil, like a smaller,

1:03:01much smaller Apple pencil that was designed for that purpose.

1:03:05I could think that would be really great.

1:03:06Like, and I know why, you know, I know you can make fun of it, like,

1:03:09because the note has always been a thing to make fun of.

1:03:12But over time, everything that people have made fun of about the note

1:03:15has happened to iPhones, right?

1:03:18Getting really big and all that kind of stuff.

1:03:20Except the fire thing.

1:03:22Could happen.

1:03:23There is absolutely no reason why that couldn't happen to Apple as well.

1:03:27Like Samsung were just the unlucky ones that it happened to first.

1:03:30But it hasn't yet.

1:03:31So I'm just saying that there's the conversation like the Logitech

1:03:34crayon maybe even so like you could have one device to easily go back and forth

1:03:38between the phone and an iPad as opposed to right now it's sort of paired and you

1:03:42wouldn't want to be like plugging into the lightning port every time you change

1:03:45devices I think it'd be I think it'd be nice I don't think it's for me I don't

1:03:49use my Apple pencil hardly at all but for people who do like it like why not

1:03:53make it an option right like you're not bundling it like you they do with the

1:03:57note it's not gonna be embedded in the body you eject it like it's gonna be a

1:04:00separate purchase because that's how Apple is. Why not give people the option at least?

1:04:05So Federica you don't have to use it but Myke you can. That seems fair to me but it seems like

1:04:10it's not going to be the case so maybe next year Myke.

1:04:15There were also rumors of production delays for the iPhone 9 so the LCD phone. Apparently the

1:04:22OLED phones will be available in September but like the iPhone 10 the LCD version might launch

1:04:29later on. So there might be some there's clearly some kind of production issue because there's no

1:04:33reason why they wouldn't want to ship them all in September. But it seems like they might be having

1:04:38some some trouble which it kind of tracks for me, right? Because the OLED phone was super weird and

1:04:43new and they had to do all that crazy stuff with this display and stuff that I'm not surprised that

1:04:48there was some hiccups and I would expect this is similar kind of thing for the LCD one. Like they

1:04:52know how to make an iPhone 10 at this point. Like that's not an issue, right? So like making a new

1:04:57iPhone X and a bigger iPhone X probably doesn't pose significant issues for them

1:05:02but this new LCD phone again it's like different in different ways the bezels

1:05:07are smaller smaller than they've been on an LCD phone before you know like so I'm

1:05:10it wouldn't surprise me if they were if they announced that the iPhone 9 will be

1:05:16shipping a little bit later because it kind of would track with when they

1:05:19announced the X. Does that make sense? And I could see how maybe some people will

1:05:25say "well I don't want to wait for the iPhone 9, I'll just get the new iPhone 10, thus giving

1:05:30Apple more money."

1:05:31We're not saying it's a conspiracy theory, but it sure is an interesting thing to think

1:05:38about.

1:05:39And that is what's a little bit different this time, if this pans out. Last time it

1:05:45was like the high-end enthusiast phone that was late, so all of us just waited. If the

1:05:49nine is the sort of the mainstream phone which I'm not sure it's it was gonna

1:05:55I think it is I think I think you could argue that that even though the prices

1:05:58will be more like the ten is the you know they're kind of positioned as the

1:06:02mainstream phone now right like that's gonna be the the kind of fault the

1:06:07middle phone in the line right like the one the medium phone the one for

1:06:11everyone not in size but in price yeah you know because they you know we've

1:06:15spoken about this and there was a Mark Gurman report that seemed to clear up most of what

1:06:20we believe to be true, right, at this point about like the sizes and even in that report

1:06:26it says that the 6.1 inch phone looks like it's gonna have some colors and we've spoken

1:06:31about that on this show, right, like how I think risky that decision is on Apple's part

1:06:38to make colored versions of a phone again after the 5C.

1:06:42The color's not why the 5C failed.

1:06:44It's because it was old and no one wanted it.

1:06:47Right, but it's not that it's old.

1:06:49It's that you know that the 5C was old by looking at it.

1:06:53And you will know that you have the not expensive iPhone

1:06:56by looking at it.

1:06:58And if that's a problem, we don't know.

1:07:00But I hazard that it might be.

1:07:02I guess we'll see.

1:07:03So much of the way they've done things

1:07:06is turned upside down now.

1:07:08Who knows?

1:07:09So we'll see.

1:07:10I still have some concern that the mainstream phone

1:07:13is too big, but I guess we'll see how that goes.

1:07:16When it's the best selling iPhone ever,

1:07:18then we'll know I was wrong.

1:07:19But right now, I feel like there are people

1:07:21who are gonna be upset that the 4.7 inch

1:07:24is now no longer a flagship.

1:07:27- Sure, but this has been a thing

1:07:30that's moved over time, right?

1:07:32Like the 4.7 inch phone is bigger

1:07:34than the phones used to be.

1:07:35- It is, but I wonder if this is too big.

1:07:38Again, we'll see how the sales numbers pan out.

1:07:42While we're talking about displays,

1:07:44there's this interesting report by Barclay

1:07:46saying that the 2019 phones,

1:07:48so not the phones we're gonna see here in a couple weeks,

1:07:50but the phones a year from now,

1:07:52will, according to this report, drop 3D Touch.

1:07:57This echoes a report by Ming-Chi Kuo

1:08:00saying that 3D Touch was not gonna be a feature

1:08:02on this iPhone 9 this year,

1:08:04which I think he's backed off of.

1:08:07So what do you guys think about this?

1:08:10This is based on part sourcing,

1:08:13and the parts used to sense 3D Touch

1:08:16have not been ordered for the next year's phones,

1:08:19or those suppliers are being told that they're SOL.

1:08:22But that could be interpreted as,

1:08:24oh, they found a new way to do it

1:08:26that doesn't involve these parts,

1:08:27so maybe it's thinner and lighter.

1:08:28And they did that with the iPhone X.

1:08:30The 3D Touch subsystem in the iPhone X

1:08:32is different than previous phones.

1:08:35Maybe they've just been able to change

1:08:36improve that again, or if you take it as far as this report says that 3D Touch will be

1:08:41going away, being removed from the iPhones. I don't know which one it is, but what do

1:08:45you guys think about that? Federico, do you use 3D Touch on your phone?

1:08:49Yeah, I do. I actually do. But it depends on which implementation of 3D Touch. So, for

1:08:56example, I use the Peek and Pop all the time for previews, whether I want a preview link

1:09:04in a web view or I want to expand, for example, a tweet and I want to see the replies to that

1:09:11tweet. So the pick and pop system I really enjoy and I really use all the time. I don't

1:09:17use quick actions on the home screen as much, mostly because I forget about them. I forget

1:09:23about the fact that they exist. And every time when I sort of remember and I look at

1:09:27those quick actions and I go like, "Oh, that's really useful," and then I forget again. So

1:09:31So those haven't been able to stick for me.

1:09:35And I...

1:09:36And they're just inconsistent, right?

1:09:39Some apps have really good options and then some apps just say "Share".

1:09:44I've also mostly found it not really that great.

1:09:50You're pressing down and you're going to a place, but then the app opens and then goes

1:09:55there?

1:09:56The implementation of how it works has never felt right to me.

1:09:59I never really feel like I'm saving any time because like I'm just watching the app do the things I've done

1:10:06To get to that point. I have a theory that I'm going to share here

1:10:11And I don't know if it'll I don't care if it'll come true or not. We're not this is a

1:10:16It's it you can share you can share things like this on podcasts because nobody really it's a theory

1:10:21It doesn't it's not a prediction. So I don't have to worry about

1:10:26the prize or winning, so this is fine. I'm very relaxed in sharing this theory.

1:10:32So if Apple does a redesign on the home screen and they remove 3D touch,

1:10:39I could see the quick action

1:10:42feature going away altogether and

1:10:45being replaced, to avoid the very issue that Myke just mentioned of "I'm just watching an app

1:10:53navigate to a page",

1:10:55I could see shortcuts becoming home screen elements, in that you could have shortcuts

1:11:04on the home screen to perform actions in the background without having to open the app

1:11:10or show you stuff from the app. Sort of like a widget, but based on the more powerful framework

1:11:19that is shortcuts.

1:11:21So we're going to discuss this, I don't think 3D touch is going away, but if it does and

1:11:28if it's replaced by the shortcuts API, you know how Apple likes to introduce a framework

1:11:35or a technology and it's one thing when they launch it and then over the next few years

1:11:42they sort of reuse it for other things.

1:11:46And I could see...

1:11:47example like here NSUserActivity becomes the building blocks of shortcuts.

1:11:51Exactly, or SiriKit. You know, it's all these APIs that they start off as one

1:11:57thing and later you go "oh now I see why you introduced this feature years ago".

1:12:01I could see shortcuts becoming part of a redesigned home screen if, you know,

1:12:04Gherman said several months ago that a new home screen is one of the key

1:12:09features of iOS 13 in 2019, so we'll see. But anyway...

1:12:13I can totally see that happening. I think that is a very very good prediction

1:12:18but I don't think that 3d touch needs to be included in that, you know, like I don't think that

1:12:22You have to remove that you would do that because you remove 3d touch or vice versa, right?

1:12:28Like I feel like that the 3d touch actions on the icons. I

1:12:31Don't think people use those really at all. I mean again, I'm sure some people do but like in the aggregate

1:12:38I don't think that they use by a lot of people but I you know

1:12:41I use 3D touch every single day for all sorts of things.

1:12:45Peek and pop like to look at elements.

1:12:49You know, maybe I want to see a message, but not have it as read yet.

1:12:53Or I want to be able to just peek into a link.

1:12:57I do that all the time. Right. Like I see a link and then I'll just

1:12:59I press down on it and then push it in if I want to actually go to the website.

1:13:03Like I use this stuff all the time and I can't imagine Apple

1:13:09completely removing this. I don't think that this is on the money. I think that what has

1:13:15probably happened is that the parts have changed. The way the technology is, the physical technology

1:13:24is different and people just interpret that to mean something. But I don't think that's

1:13:29the case at all.

1:13:30This feels like one of those analyst moves a little bit where analysts sometimes have

1:13:34to swing really big because in two years we're not going to remember this unless they were

1:13:38Like oh yeah, Barclays man way to go 3d touch guys

1:13:42Yeah, I don't I don't think it's going away, I think the parts have changed

1:13:47I think it is interesting to talk about how Apple could change it in software

1:13:49Which of course no analyst has any idea of because software this sort of stuff only leaks when Apple puts out home pod firmware

1:13:55But I do think there's room for Apple to improve 3d touch, and I think the home screen is the number one place

1:14:02I love the idea of like exposing shortcuts via 3d touch as opposed to the quick actions. I think I think to

1:14:08I think if Apple is going to

1:14:11Like if they're redesigning this like if they're having new parts that make this possible

1:14:16Maybe we finally see it on the iPad, you know

1:14:19Maybe whatever is going on here with the hardware allows them to put it on a bigger screen

1:14:23I don't think that would be for this year's iPads unless we're gonna have a fun surprise

1:14:28but you know in the future like it's already sort of fragmented between the phone and the tablet and

1:14:35That's only going to get more noticeable if developers use their Dtouch more

1:14:39And maybe it's maybe it's time. I mean, what do you guys think?

1:14:43There's a couple of things that I want to that I want to share about the arguments against 3D touch and

1:14:50Sort of in favor of 3D touch if that's okay

1:14:53Because I see these arguments being shared on Twitter though, the first one is accessibility

1:15:00It's this word that a bunch of people throw around and they say things like

1:15:04"3D touch is terrible for accessibility and Apple should remove it because it's not easy to use."

1:15:11And my problem with this statement is that there's different types of accessibility

1:15:22and different types of inclusive design.

1:15:25And so while you could make the argument that from a motor skill perspective, 3D touch is

1:15:30not accessible, on the other hand, I also think it's true that people with vision impediments,

1:15:36for example, that really don't like the fact that to get to some piece of information,

1:15:42you need to navigate into multiple screens deep into an app and its navigation stack.

1:15:493D touch as a shortcut to preview content could be an accessibility feature in that

1:15:54you're saving taps, you're saving time, and you can see, you know, you can get to your

1:15:59information more quickly.

1:16:00So the accessibility argument doesn't really hold true because of the different shades

1:16:04of what inclusive design on iOS means.

1:16:08The second argument that I could see why 3D Touch may be going away -- so as you can tell,

1:16:15I'm a little torn on this topic.

1:16:18The fact that it's still not available on the iPad is a -- should be maybe, I don't

1:16:23know, a warning sign. But the iPad has its unique set of challenges when it comes to

1:16:29implementing 3D touch. It's a big display, so if you press hard on the display, of course,

1:16:34you know, maybe it'll bend, or maybe you're using your iPad on a desk with a smart keyboard

1:16:39or a smart cover propped up, and if you press on the screen, the iPad will just fall on

1:16:44the desk. You just push it over the angle of the cover. So that's a problem. But then

1:16:51Then you look at Apple and you see Apple for example replicating some 3D Touch features

1:16:57on the iPad with a standard long press.

1:17:01So things like clearing notifications all at once in iOS 12, you can do that with a

1:17:06long press.

1:17:07Or the files widget in iOS 11 that you get on the home screen by long pressing on the

1:17:11files icon.

1:17:12That doesn't require 3D Touch at all.

1:17:15Or also in iOS 12, stuff like notification previews.

1:17:19You just need to long press, I also think 11 actually, you just need to long press on

1:17:24a notification and it pops open without having to use pick and pop.

1:17:28One of the ones that I find the funniest is like on the iPad in Control Center, why can't

1:17:33I not just tap the home icon?

1:17:35Yeah, that doesn't make sense.

1:17:36That doesn't make sense.

1:17:37Right?

1:17:38Like, why do I have to long press it?

1:17:40Like what am I doing now?

1:17:41But that's another good example.

1:17:42Control Center, you can expand with a long press.

1:17:45So the folks who are saying 3D touch is going away because it's useless, just look at the

1:17:50long press gesture.

1:17:52That argument also kind of makes sense.

1:17:54So my main problem, as Steven mentioned, is the fact that you introduce this new technology

1:18:01and you get developers, you know, you sort of get traction among the developer community

1:18:06to implement 3D touch.

1:18:09And it's not a technology that is considered legacy at this point.

1:18:13I mean, it was introduced four years ago.

1:18:15It's not like the headphone jack or stuff that was introduced in iOS 3 or iOS 4.

1:18:24It's a relatively new feature.

1:18:26And I agree it's not totally discoverable, but just mixing 3D Touch without giving it

1:18:31a second chance, I don't think it's the right answer.

1:18:37Especially after you've made such a big deal out of the display technology that you needed

1:18:41to implement and all these sensors.

1:18:44You build, as a company, you build the Taptic Engine to provide haptic feedback and work

1:18:50alongside 3D Touch.

1:18:51So you make a big deal out of this new feature and then suddenly it just disappears.

1:18:57While there are plenty of arguments that would justify that, I also think it would be weird,

1:19:03because it would sort of, it would smell like a failure in modern Apple history.

1:19:11a huge failure because it's just a feature of the iPhone but still something that was

1:19:16introduced, made a big splash and just removed four years later, three years later. I don't

1:19:22think it's a good look.

1:19:24There's precedent for them changing the way that it works, right? Like at watchOS where

1:19:283D touch has been downplayed, it's still there but I think watchOS in its early days really

1:19:36struggled with like...

1:19:37It was the discoverability problem.

1:19:39There was just too much hidden behind what

1:19:42was called force press then.

1:19:43And so they sort of, OK, you don't

1:19:45have to force press or 3D touch to do everything.

1:19:47Now you can swipe or do these other things.

1:19:49And maybe that's where it goes on iOS,

1:19:51but I think we're in agreement that it's not going away,

1:19:54that this is an over-reading of the situation by this analyst.

1:19:59Yeah.

1:20:00I think one of the key things is there's still

1:20:03stuff being put behind 3D touch in iOS 12, right?

1:20:07don't think that you would continue to use 3D touch as heavily as it's used in

1:20:13iOS and in some places even in Apple's own apps if they were removing not just

1:20:19like the hardware but the actual feature itself it just doesn't seem realistic

1:20:24yeah so so I guess we're saying it's here to stay at least for now yeah in

1:20:30some way right like there may be a change and there probably will be a

1:20:34change but it's still going to exist like it's still going to be what we know

1:20:39now but maybe that may be done in a different way maybe they don't need to

1:20:43use that maybe they're just gonna use do it all in software right that they can

1:20:46work out like when you're pushing your finger down into the screen more like

1:20:50that if there is no plate that is recognizing presses or anything like we

1:20:54don't know but I believe that the next iPhones think we all believe the next

1:20:58iPhones will use will have 3d touch and then the way that they always have the

1:21:03tactic mode will be there and it will press on you when you do something like

1:21:06it's still going to exist. So let me ask you a final question. When you think of

1:21:10analyst firms, do you think they're like the Wolf of Wall Street? Like tons of, you

1:21:16know, questionable substances and parties and these people just having the best

1:21:21time of their life and... This is not a thing that I would be willing to comment

1:21:26on one way or another. Because I sometimes think about it and I like to

1:21:31imagine it's like that, you know, and in their spare time they make iPhone predictions.

1:21:37I worked in a very big company, right?

1:21:40Don't ruin it for me.

1:21:41Which would be very similar to a lot of these firms, especially like the Barclays firm,

1:21:46right?

1:21:47I think it's a lot more boring than you think it is.

1:21:49That's too bad.

1:21:50I'm sorry to say.

1:21:51Alright, well that's fine.

1:21:53Good for them.

1:21:54Alright, Steven, take us home.

1:21:55Alright, so thank you for listening to this episode of Connected.

1:21:58If you want to find links to stuff we talked about,

1:22:01they're in your podcast app or on the website

1:22:03relay.fm/connected/207.

1:22:07You can get in touch with us there via email

1:22:09or of course you can do so on Twitter.

1:22:12Myke is I-M-Y-K-E and Myke is the host of a bunch of shows

1:22:16at relay.fm/shows.

1:22:19You can find Federico on Twitter as viticiviticci

1:22:23and he is the editor-in-chief of maxstories.net.

1:22:28You can find me as ismh and I write 512pixels.net.

1:22:32I'd like to thank our sponsors this week, Casper, Pingdom, and GreenChef.

1:22:37And thank you for listening and until our next episode guys, say goodbye.

1:22:41Arrivederci.

1:22:42Goodbye.

1:22:43Oh no.

1:22:44Oh.

1:22:45Why?

1:22:46No, sorry.

1:22:47Sorry.

1:22:48No, you just gotta leave it as is.

1:22:49Sorry.

1:22:50Well, there you go.

1:22:51Oh dear.

1:22:52Adios.

1:22:53Why?

1:22:54(laughing)