206: A High Appreciation for Winning


00:00:00   (upbeat music)

00:00:02   - Hello and welcome to Connected, episode 206.

00:00:11   It is brought to you this week by our sponsors,

00:00:13   TextExpander, Linode, and Molekule.

00:00:16   I'm your host, Steven Hackett,

00:00:18   and for the first time in eight weeks,

00:00:20   I am joined by both of my co-hosts.

00:00:23   Federico, how are you?

00:00:25   - Hi, I'm back, I guess.

00:00:28   Hi, I'm great. How are you?

00:00:30   It's good to have you back.

00:00:31   And we also have Myke.

00:00:33   Everyone's together.

00:00:35   Yay!

00:00:36   All is right in the world again.

00:00:38   We are once again a whole and I'm very happy.

00:00:41   Yeah, I was missing the show.

00:00:44   It was weird not to do podcasts

00:00:46   for three weeks straight basically,

00:00:49   but it was also kind of weird not to do connected as a trio.

00:00:52   A very long time.

00:00:54   I kind of feel like I forgot how to podcast in this past couple of weeks, so I'll probably

00:01:01   do some silly mistakes like, I don't know, talking about things that Steven doesn't like.

00:01:08   I suppose that's what we've done.

00:01:10   So we should do follow-up.

00:01:13   We should jump straight into follow-up, Steven.

00:01:15   Why are you not doing follow-up already?

00:01:17   We're going to do follow-up right now.

00:01:19   Follow-up.

00:01:20   Follow-up.

00:01:21   We've been talking a lot about new-- Follow-up.

00:01:23   Follow-up.

00:01:24   people with podcasts have been talking about new iPhones and just today or it seems like there's

00:01:31   some signs of a fourth new phone this year so we've talked about the the new iPhone 10,

00:01:38   the new iPhone 10 plus, an iPhone 9 and now I think for discussion purposes what we'll call

00:01:44   the iPhone 7c as a Steven Steve Trout Smith kind of nicknamed it on Twitter the idea this phone is

00:01:51   it seems internally very much like an iPhone 7. Of course that would mean that

00:01:57   it could be readily available and cheaper than new phones. There were

00:02:04   rumors that the iPhone 9 was going to come in colors. Now I kind of think that

00:02:08   maybe those rumors were about this phone. So maybe we're gonna have like a new, not

00:02:14   new iPhone SE because rest in peace 4-inch phones, but a new low-end iPhone

00:02:21   based on the 7, maybe with some slight tweaks or updates.

00:02:25   What do you guys think about this?

00:02:26   Can I ask a question?

00:02:28   That like, you know, this is one of those questions where people like,

00:02:32   "Oh, Myke, you're so silly."

00:02:34   What Steve says in his tweet is that it has the same screen resolution, right?

00:02:40   Does that mean the same physical size?

00:02:43   No, not necessarily.

00:02:45   Because my question on that would be like...

00:02:49   that's it depends on the DPI of the screen so it could be and forgive me

00:02:54   Steven this is where you should come in but if it's a different type of density

00:02:57   could be the same resolution but a different physical size is that it could

00:03:02   be

00:03:02   yeah I mean my my gut says that it's the iPhone 7 screen size only because the

00:03:10   rumors also say the iPhone 9 is going to be bigger and and maybe they still want

00:03:15   something just like the do with the SE right they stepped up to the bigger

00:03:17   phones but they left one older phone behind and they're gonna do that again

00:03:21   so maybe they're gonna reuse the 4.7 inch or what is what is the iPhone 7 4.5

00:03:26   4.7 inch somewhere in there 4.7 I think. Well I guess you could

00:03:33   have an outside hope right which is very slim extremely slim that they're gonna

00:03:39   make a really small phone that has no home button that could be your only hope

00:03:45   right that like it's 4.7 inches but it has no home button so it's gonna be

00:03:50   small like the iPhone SE that's your only hope right which is it's of

00:03:55   incredibly far outside hope but stranger things have happened yeah I mean I think

00:04:01   that Occam's razor says that this is gonna be a cheap iPhone 7 I know but I

00:04:08   like to give the people hope you know yeah but but but but false hope is is a

00:04:13   is a different thing.

00:04:15   - No, no, no, no.

00:04:16   You never know, right?

00:04:18   No, you should know, you should know it's not gonna happen.

00:04:20   But it is very strange to me that they would,

00:04:25   well, I guess the reasoning for this, right?

00:04:28   So over the last few weeks,

00:04:31   I've been talking to Jason on an upgrade about this stuff.

00:04:34   And one of the things that people keep telling us is like,

00:04:36   oh, I really don't want the new,

00:04:39   like to get a new phone that's big, right?

00:04:41   because all of the rumors are saying that there's going to be three new phones that

00:04:46   follow the iPhone X's design convention and the one in the middle is bigger than the current

00:04:54   iPhone X, right?

00:04:56   So it's got an LCD screen but it's got like a six inch LCD screen or something so it's

00:05:00   a bigger phone but it's going to be the cheapest one because it's going to have an LCD screen

00:05:04   and people have been saying to us, "Oh, you know, I don't want to have to buy a new iPhone

00:05:10   that's big. I don't want a big phone and I don't want to spend a thousand dollars.

00:05:15   I guess this phone is for those people, right? Like,

00:05:18   you can still get a smaller phone, it's still

00:05:21   newer in some way but isn't gonna be, isn't gonna break the bank.

00:05:25   I don't know. Wouldn't it be funny if they call it the iPhone XS,

00:05:30   as in X and small, like t-shirts?

00:05:33   Yes, but it would have to look like the iPhone X though, right?

00:05:36   Yeah, that would be the problem I suppose, yeah.

00:05:39   I don't know, do we think are we gonna call it the 7 or the SE again?

00:05:44   I don't think they should call it the 7 because it feels instantly old.

00:05:48   Yeah.

00:05:49   So I will call it the new iPhone SE because the special edition feels like a timeless name.

00:05:55   Yes, I think it would be the iPhone SE 2, which is probably the name that it would get.

00:05:59   Because you couldn't even call it the 7 because the 7 is older than the 8, right?

00:06:04   Like that's just like you're dooming this phone at that point.

00:06:08   So this will probably become iPhone SE 2 or something like that and then maybe they still

00:06:13   sell both versions of SE for a bit.

00:06:17   So you know, which would be super weird but again, stranger things have happened.

00:06:23   This feels like the way that they might go down that and then you never know, they could

00:06:26   update the SE as well.

00:06:28   There's nothing to say they couldn't at least put a new chip in it.

00:06:31   I don't know.

00:06:33   I think that's all.

00:06:34   I think that's all fair game.

00:06:35   So we'll, I guess we'll see, you know, the,

00:06:40   well we talked about it when we talked about the phones,

00:06:41   you know, is moving up a mistake.

00:06:43   And Myke, to your point, there are clearly people

00:06:45   who want something smaller.

00:06:47   I married to an iPhone SE user, she's not thrilled

00:06:51   that it's probably going away.

00:06:53   But I gotta imagine that something as cheap as the SE,

00:06:59   or like in that price range, would do well.

00:07:02   Because I think the SE did better than Apple expected.

00:07:04   Like, they're in the world and having something that sort of takes the best of what bigger

00:07:10   phones have to offer but at a lower price point, it may be a hit.

00:07:14   So, we'll see.

00:07:15   You know, we're really at this point, what, like three weeks away from an iPhone event

00:07:19   probably?

00:07:20   I mean, we're getting close and I think we'll learn more about this mysterious fourth phone

00:07:26   before it's all over.

00:07:28   Getting close to an iPhone event means getting close to software releases like iOS 12 and

00:07:36   macOS Mojave and I'm kind of just wondering how you two are doing with your views.

00:07:43   Steven have you actually worked out if you're ever gonna...

00:07:47   I feel like you know we do these check-ins and like Federico's like "oh I'm this far

00:07:51   in" but everyone for you is like "I don't know if I'm doing it yet" so have you made

00:07:55   a decision?

00:07:56   I have made a decision. I haven't done any work yet because as we're going to talk about in a minute, I've been very busy

00:08:02   but I am going to take the route that I talked about and do a couple of

00:08:07   like in-depth feature articles about new things in Mojave as opposed to doing an overall review

00:08:14   My guess is the feature like those articles

00:08:16   I'm probably gonna have similar amounts of time in them

00:08:19   but I really just want to do something different and fresh this year because I've done a

00:08:23   Mac OS review on

00:08:25   512 since mountain lion and this feels like maybe it's time to do something a little bit different. I did that with Yosemite. I

00:08:31   did a review of the redesign and not the OS itself and like I really I still like really like that article

00:08:40   I'm really happy with how it came out

00:08:41   and so I think doing something a little bit different this year will give me some some flexibility to

00:08:46   To change it up a little bit. So that's my plan

00:08:50   I haven't started anything yet that is on the plate for next week, but that's that's my plan not a full review

00:08:55   but like look at a couple of interesting features in Mojave. I think if you do a

00:09:02   couple of things like your dark mode article then yes that would more than

00:09:06   suffice because you know like there isn't a lot that changes now you would

00:09:13   be treading a lot of the same water again right you just become just

00:09:17   retreading a path that you would have tread the years before because they

00:09:21   don't change a ton. Like maybe next year or the year after, right, with

00:09:26   marzipan there could be some serious stuff to talk about in a Mac OS review

00:09:31   again but it doesn't... outside of dark mode there's not really any huge

00:09:36   blockbuster features that would really warrant you spending time and going

00:09:39   through everything. Federico, how are you doing?

00:09:43   I'm doing great. I'm doing great I think actually for the first time in I think

00:09:48   three four years I was able to take a real vacation without doing the review

00:09:53   during the vacation like I was actually spending time with my girlfriend and my

00:10:00   dogs without worrying about the review which was nice really nice actually so

00:10:05   the review is made of nine chapters and at this point five of five of them have

00:10:14   been finalized, where I mean they've already been edited four times and I don't plan on

00:10:23   making any major changes to them.

00:10:28   And I'm in the process of finalizing chapter six, which will be the big one about shortcuts,

00:10:33   and chapters seven and eight are relatively easy to do because they talk about miscellaneous

00:10:39   apps and everything else.

00:10:41   And I still need to write the conclusion.

00:10:42   So this is a different approach from previous years.

00:10:44   I'm leaving the conclusion for, I think next week,

00:10:48   I'll probably start writing the conclusion,

00:10:50   which is gonna be about a thousand words tops.

00:10:53   So I'm in a really good place

00:10:56   in terms of progress and schedule.

00:11:00   I've never been this relaxed,

00:11:03   relaxed by the 20th something, 22 of August.

00:11:07   So I think it definitely helps

00:11:11   that the review is about 30% shorter than last year.

00:11:16   Part of that is because I think iOS 12 doesn't

00:11:19   have the same major changes of iOS 11

00:11:22   when you consider the iPad and just how much I

00:11:25   wrote about the iPad.

00:11:26   But it's also because I took a different approach.

00:11:29   As I mentioned in June, before starting to work on the review,

00:11:33   I said, I don't want to take as much a technical approach

00:11:37   in describing all of the new APIs

00:11:39   and all of these technical details that people don't necessarily care about.

00:11:43   And I try to keep true to that by avoiding the, you know,

00:11:49   getting too deep into the technical stuff and trying to have a more approachable

00:11:53   or, you know, trying to have the sort of the tone of the people.

00:11:59   Like if you're a regular person installing iOS 12, what do you see?

00:12:04   How do you react to these changes?

00:12:06   And of course, there's a bit of technical stuff here and there.

00:12:09   And the shortcuts chapter will be more technical

00:12:11   for obvious reasons.

00:12:13   But I think overall, I feel happy with this review.

00:12:16   I'm happy with the kind of tone and approach that it's got.

00:12:21   And I'm also much more organized

00:12:23   in terms of leaving placeholders in the review for videos

00:12:28   and screenshots and galleries that I need to do.

00:12:32   I'm tracking everything in drafts

00:12:35   and I'm tracking everything with smart lists

00:12:40   in my task managers, which it's, I said managers plural

00:12:45   because it's a whole conversation that we'll have later on.

00:12:50   Not today.

00:12:52   - Here we go again.

00:12:54   Okay.

00:12:55   - Look, there's a very good reason for this.

00:12:58   And we will talk about-

00:12:59   - There's always a good reason.

00:13:01   There's always a good reason.

00:13:02   - I know.

00:13:04   It's why I changed them, because it's a good reason.

00:13:09   And for the first time, also, in years,

00:13:12   I have made the decision of not forcing myself

00:13:15   to wait for GM to take screenshots,

00:13:18   because I've realized I've run comparisons

00:13:21   between the archives of my beta 8 and beta 9 screenshots

00:13:26   that I saved for iOS 7 and iOS 11 in previous years,

00:13:30   and the GM version.

00:13:32   and the images look the same.

00:13:36   And I basically, I was convincing myself,

00:13:38   oh no, I need to wait for GM

00:13:40   because it's going to be slightly different,

00:13:41   but no, it's gonna be the same.

00:13:43   Beta 9, Beta 10, they're always the same basically.

00:13:47   So in the review, you will not notice,

00:13:50   but there will be screenshots taken from Beta 9 or Beta 10.

00:13:54   And I don't care because it's more the principle

00:13:58   of not taking those screenshots than anything else really.

00:14:01   and I need to optimize my time.

00:14:03   So yeah, this is a long answer to your question.

00:14:07   I'm doing great and I think we will be great

00:14:09   and it gives me time to work on the stuff

00:14:13   that surrounds the review, like promotion,

00:14:15   like the club, like other projects involving the review.

00:14:19   It's gonna be fun, I think.

00:14:21   - We're still sounding very positive and pleased.

00:14:26   - Yeah, my girlfriend says that I'm different

00:14:30   from last year, which makes me happy because last year I was a train wreck at this point.

00:14:34   So the fact that I'm still at the beach and being able to enjoy the beach and play with

00:14:39   the dogs and also work on the review in the evening, I think it's a good sign.

00:14:44   So thank you to everybody who signed up to become a Relay FM member.

00:14:49   Very very appreciative of that.

00:14:51   As a reminder, we have a bonus episode that will be coming out on September the 4th, which

00:14:57   will be our discussion of the wonderful movie The Pirates of Silicon Valley.

00:15:01   But, Derecka, have you seen that movie before?

00:15:04   Yeah.

00:15:05   No, years ago, though.

00:15:08   In Italian also.

00:15:10   Interesting.

00:15:11   Are you going to be watching it in English this time?

00:15:13   Yeah.

00:15:14   Yeah.

00:15:15   Okay.

00:15:16   I wonder how different that's going to be.

00:15:17   I didn't even think that they would have translated it, but that's kind of cool, I guess.

00:15:21   So if you sign up now, you will get this when the episode comes out, along with all the

00:15:25   other bonus content and special perks that have been coming out over the last week or

00:15:30   so and over the next few weeks. So there's tons and tons of stuff available to Relay

00:15:33   FM members. Plans start at just $5 a month to support this show or any other show. There's

00:15:39   a link in the show notes for this episode which you can click and it will open up a

00:15:43   checkout for you to sign up for this show to give us $5 a month or you can go to relay.fm/membership

00:15:49   to learn more. Maybe give your money to a different show, maybe give your money to all

00:15:53   shows, but no matter what you give or how much you give, you get the same perks as everybody

00:15:58   else.

00:15:59   Steven, while we're in an announcement section, would you like to talk about New March?

00:16:03   Yes, can you say it again though?

00:16:05   I think that was really good.

00:16:07   New March.

00:16:09   I want like horns and stuff if you're able to do that for me, that would be incredible.

00:16:14   You know?

00:16:15   Like some real exciting stuff?

00:16:18   Yeah.

00:16:19   New March.

00:16:21   So we have relaunched our merchandise store, it is in partnership with the Cotton Bureau

00:16:26   and that lets us do some really cool things.

00:16:30   We've got four items up right now, we've got a new t-shirt.

00:16:33   Four items!

00:16:35   T-shirt!

00:16:37   Hat!

00:16:40   I'm hyping for you, keep going!

00:16:42   It sounds like you're having some sort of a...

00:16:44   It's fine, just keep going!

00:16:45   Shirt, a hat, enamel pin, enamel pin, and what may be my favorite, challenge coin.

00:16:51   Challenge coin which I have right here. Mm-hmm, and it's heavy hit it against the microphone. I'm like I'll hit against my desk. Okay

00:16:59   Man you can keep a coin in your hands it bounced off my desk onto the floor, but it's fine because it's uh

00:17:10   Challenge coin. So if you head over to relay FM slash store, you can check this stuff out the

00:17:20   The pins and the coins are in stock now the shirts and hats will be in stock in mid-september

00:17:25   If you order something with a shirt or hat, we're gonna hold your order until everything comes in

00:17:31   So we just have to ship it once and charge you for shipping once

00:17:33   but

00:17:35   I would say if you want a coin

00:17:37   If you're really excited about that and you're listening to this I would hurry because the first batch is getting ready to be sold out

00:17:44   Yeah, also of these items will be in stock

00:17:48   Like long term, but we're gonna sell out of coins temporarily here pretty soon. Yeah

00:17:53   We may even be sold out by the time you're hearing this

00:17:55   So it's possible go and and buy them and we'll like if you follow us on Twitter

00:17:59   We'll let you know when we have more in stock. But yeah, their designs are really fun. And I think that you're gonna love it

00:18:04   Yes, it's it's really exciting stuff and big thanks to cotton Bureau. Their team is awesome to

00:18:10   Simon our designer who came up with all this stuff

00:18:13   The artwork is all based a lot of it's based on the original iPods like the play/pause

00:18:17   ring of buttons and so that's like around the outside of the

00:18:21   Design of the shirt and the back of the coin and it's just it's really awesome looking stuff. We're really excited about it

00:18:28   So go check it out. And if you are a relay FM member

00:18:32   Remember have a discount code that came in your email yesterday

00:18:36   So keep an eye out for that

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00:20:28   So Steven, I saw on Twitter a couple of days ago

00:20:32   that you had to resort to compressed air again

00:20:35   in your life, I believe.

00:20:36   Your MacBook Pro keys are getting stuck.

00:20:38   Is that true?

00:20:38   - How many days was it old?

00:20:40   That was the joke in the post.

00:20:41   - 23.

00:20:42   - 23 day old MacBook Pro.

00:20:44   Space bar got stuck.

00:20:45   So I did the compressed air trick.

00:20:48   It helped, but it wasn't completely fixed.

00:20:50   And so then I made a genius appointment,

00:20:52   but by the time that genius appointment rolled around,

00:20:54   it seemed fine again, so I canceled it.

00:20:56   So seems okay, but this feels like some sort of like military exercise.

00:21:03   Like once the hull has been breached, it's just a matter of time.

00:21:07   So not super optimistic about this keyboard fix, but we'll see how it goes.

00:21:13   Do you feel like they should start including compressed air in the MacBook Pro box?

00:21:18   Yeah.

00:21:19   Maybe.

00:21:20   It'd be good.

00:21:21   Little like little packets of compressed air.

00:21:24   Little packets of air.

00:21:25   Can you can you sell air as a like as an object?

00:21:30   Is it?

00:21:33   What's your name has tried

00:21:36   You know the what's the crazy like health not health store people make fun of theranos. No

00:21:43   What is going on

00:21:47   I

00:21:50   Think you're thinking of the Avengers movie. So yeah

00:21:53   So anyways, I like the laptop otherwise and the keyboard seems okay now, but it like definitely put the fear in me

00:21:58   So now I have the fear in me about this keyboard, but for now, I'm okay

00:22:01   keyboard fear

00:22:03   Mm-hmm

00:22:05   So as you moved away from keyboards and into screenshots instead

00:22:09   Can you explain what the aqua screenshot library is?

00:22:15   Yeah, so let's talk about this

00:22:18   The my idea was this is a this is a huge like mini website on 512 pixels and the idea was

00:22:25   to have a collection of screenshots of every major version of

00:22:30   Mac OS Mac OS 10 since the public beta so everything from the public beta forward because

00:22:38   Well, we get into the reasons, but that's what it is

00:22:40   So you can go through and you can select your version so I go in here and I can select

00:22:45   Jaguar and I can see all the screenshots from Jaguar that I created they're all sorted the same way

00:22:52   So you can like you can like see you know, what finder home looked like

00:22:57   You know throughout the years how the hell

00:23:00   Specific things have changed. I know that that

00:23:03   You have a slightly different

00:23:07   General

00:23:10   Sense of like what's important to you than I do like we you know with most human beings we value things

00:23:16   differently about what we consider to be important in our lives and I know

00:23:20   That like all of Apple stuff. All right. Why did you do this? What is this for? Okay, there's two answers to this

00:23:29   One answer is I just wanted it to exist but okay

00:23:33   But what what put what where the idea came from?

00:23:38   Actually came from this show and so we spoke about oh no a long time ago

00:23:43   We spoke about software preservation and like that article like this has been in the work

00:23:49   So I started this the end of last year. I took my first screenshot in March

00:23:52   It took a couple of months to like find all the installers like

00:23:55   Trying to find a copy of Panther that will install a CD that actually works took a little bit of time

00:24:00   but that conversation like really set me on a path to really think about like my

00:24:07   Like collecting and what I try to do because it's easy to collect and preserve hardware

00:24:13   But and we talked about this on that episode as hardware dies

00:24:18   The software that runs on it will disappear right so at some point every computer that can run system 7

00:24:25   will be dead and system 7 will be gone and

00:24:29   That's already happening with early versions of OS X

00:24:33   It's hard to like for the public beta for instance

00:24:36   You have to jump through a lot of hoops to get to run

00:24:38   Even if even if these machines ran forever most people just don't have experience with these things

00:24:43   So I wanted to let people who didn't see this stuff in its day

00:24:47   You did kind of get a feel for what it was like and I think you could do that

00:24:51   I think there's so many images you can really get a sense like what each OS was like

00:24:54   But in a world where like eventually you won't be able to run this stuff. I

00:24:59   I just wanted to have a record that I sort of put together myself of what these things were like.

00:25:04   And so I think that's the big reason. And it's, you know, from a

00:25:09   business perspective, this project made no sense. I don't track my time, but I can tell you,

00:25:18   a lot of time went into this. But I know we talked about the Relay membership, but I run

00:25:24   run one of 512 pixels as well.

00:25:25   And like that income like really made this possible

00:25:29   because like if that is the bulk of the income

00:25:31   from the site now is that membership.

00:25:33   And if that wasn't there, I could not have justified this.

00:25:36   But I feel like I could because I had that revenue.

00:25:39   And I think I have over the years,

00:25:43   I mean the site's gonna be 10 years old next month.

00:25:47   I think over the years, I have built 512 into a brand

00:25:51   of like if you wanna know about this stuff,

00:25:52   is where you go and this I think just is like a huge step in that direction.

00:25:59   How do you do something like this? Because I know you have like a bunch of old computers

00:26:09   around right which I'm sure can run some if not all of these OS versions but then like

00:26:18   Like how do you even on some of the older ones get the screenshots off the machines?

00:26:25   So I ran, I saw this in the blog post, I ran all of these OS's on actual hardware.

00:26:33   None of this was like virtual machines.

00:26:35   Would you can do that?

00:26:36   Why did you do that?

00:26:37   Wouldn't it have been easier to do virtual machines?

00:26:40   It would have been easier on my back and moving towers around.

00:26:44   But if you have the hardware, it is simpler to run it directly.

00:26:51   Kind of feels like you're an OS hipster.

00:26:53   Maybe.

00:26:54   Like, it's not authentic if it didn't run on the actual hardware, right?

00:26:58   This is a home-grown Aqua screenshot.

00:27:00   Yeah, this is an artisanal screenshot library.

00:27:08   This is real farm-to-table screenshotting, you know?

00:27:10   It is.

00:27:11   They're handcrafted.

00:27:12   So, um, locally grown, they're all on actual hardware.

00:27:16   And so I started with the, actually the public beta I did last, but, um, the.

00:27:22   The public beta up through like 10, five ran on a couple of different G4 towers

00:27:28   that I have, like with a display.

00:27:30   So I had to buy a four by three screen because original versions of Mac

00:27:33   OS didn't run on widescreen.

00:27:35   They're only ran a four by three.

00:27:36   So had to find a display and, uh, make the, make the images.

00:27:42   Then I moved from that to a Mac mini and then to a couple of different retina MacBook Pros

00:27:46   It's like one thing I want to do over and I just couldn't find a machine

00:27:50   I could not find a retina MacBook Pro that I felt like I could

00:27:54   Justify the expense on to run lion the retina machine. I borrowed from a friend. He's probably listening

00:28:00   So thank you Ian for let me borrow your computer for like several weeks was

00:28:04   Ran mountain lion that it didn't run lion. And so I'd like to remake lion at some point. But all this is on actual hardware and

00:28:11   using the grab application which is part of Mac OS X to make make the screenshots.

00:28:17   That's the thing that's about to get better right in Mojave. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I OS

00:28:22   Yeah, Mojave like really expands what grab can do, you know, like markup and stuff, which is really great

00:28:27   You'll notice if you look through these the first couple of versions

00:28:30   the I have full screens for almost everything because in grab now you can screenshot just a window and that was not possible in the

00:28:39   early days and

00:28:41   And so a lot of the early images have like full screen or they're manually cropped depending on what they are.

00:28:47   But eventually Grab got good enough where you could just select a single window, which is what I wanted.

00:28:53   Do you know what? It kills me in like some especially some of the earlier ones where the menu bar is rounded

00:29:01   but the screenshot goes further and the screenshot square but the menu bar is rounded at the edges. It kills me.

00:29:09   - Not a good look.

00:29:10   Not a good look.

00:29:13   But yeah, so I used to grab all of these machines

00:29:17   I had just on my local network.

00:29:20   And so I could copy the screenshots off

00:29:24   just from across the network using file sharing.

00:29:26   So that was actually pretty straightforward.

00:29:29   - That worked even on the older stuff?

00:29:31   - Yep, yep, just plug it in and turn file sharing on

00:29:33   and you're all set.

00:29:35   So generally I would have it,

00:29:37   I would have the test bench, the test machine on a desk,

00:29:42   and I had my laptop, so I have a long Apple Note

00:29:45   of every screenshot that I needed in order,

00:29:48   and I would just walk through them,

00:29:50   and I would copy the files off,

00:29:51   and then I named them, named them,

00:29:55   and then eventually upload them.

00:29:56   So those are all kind of separate steps.

00:29:58   - How did you decide what was important to screenshot?

00:30:01   'Cause you haven't got every single screen

00:30:03   in the entire operating system.

00:30:04   - I don't. - Right?

00:30:05   So why, how did you decide on the list?

00:30:08   And then how did the list change over versions?

00:30:12   Yeah.

00:30:12   So the terminology I came up with is it is comprehensive.

00:30:16   It is not exhaustive.

00:30:17   So it is not every screen in the OS, partially because that as impossible as

00:30:22   this task was doing every screen would have been impossible.

00:30:26   I'd be making screenshots for another three years.

00:30:28   What I wanted was if someone looks through one of these galleries, they have a real

00:30:33   sense of what this OS was like.

00:30:34   And so I actually started at 10.0.

00:30:37   I did the public beta last because the public beta,

00:30:39   if you look through it, is so different.

00:30:41   I was like, I can't base anything on this.

00:30:43   Like, I'm gonna start with 10.0.

00:30:45   And you know, I've been a Mac user for a long time,

00:30:48   so I kind of had in my head like, okay,

00:30:49   I want like really common Finder features.

00:30:52   I want like some folders.

00:30:54   I want some of the built-in applications,

00:30:56   but not all of them.

00:30:57   Like I'd sort of just picked sort of like

00:30:59   what I felt were the most important ones.

00:31:01   But then as the OS matures, I actually had to stop

00:31:05   and most of the time I've read like skimmed

00:31:08   like Syracuse's reviews for those that he wrote

00:31:10   or watched the keynote again to make a list of,

00:31:13   okay, in Panther what's new?

00:31:16   Like what's new in Panther so I make sure that I grab that

00:31:19   and then for the most part these features

00:31:21   are like a snowball, right?

00:31:22   Like it starts in 10.3 so that same feature

00:31:25   is in 10.4, 10.5, 10.6, on and on and on.

00:31:29   There are a few exceptions to that but,

00:31:31   So like once something was on the list,

00:31:32   it didn't come off.

00:31:33   So like once, you know, something like Spotlight was there,

00:31:38   well, Spotlight's in all the subsequent releases.

00:31:41   So the list got much longer.

00:31:43   Actually, you're gonna look the--

00:31:45   - I like when FaceTime comes into it.

00:31:48   - Yeah.

00:31:50   - Mountain Lion is a real scene.

00:31:52   - That's real bad.

00:31:54   - That's a real thing going on there.

00:31:56   I encourage people to go and check out the FaceTime

00:32:00   off mountain lion to see I think an actual mountain lion.

00:32:05   Let's see, let's look at this. FaceTime. That one, that one's my favorite.

00:32:13   Yeah, that screenshot is probably made quite late at night.

00:32:19   Yeah. It looks like, you know when you see those things where someone has stolen a computer

00:32:27   But it had that software on it that would take a picture of the person stealing it.

00:32:31   It's like someone getting ready to ship the computer to China or something.

00:32:35   Yeah, it's the guy who's just stolen your laptop and that's the picture.

00:32:39   This image could be used in news reports about stolen computers.

00:32:43   Here's the perp that was caught on a MacBook.

00:32:47   Because all of the other ones you either look happy or you're much differently groomed.

00:32:53   That one is a...

00:32:54   It's a real disaster.

00:32:55   But you know, hey, I'm just, you know, you get what you get with me.

00:32:59   Because that's the funny thing, right?

00:33:01   So this is like a resource now.

00:33:02   I mean, that's why you make it.

00:33:03   It's a resource.

00:33:04   It's a resource for you.

00:33:05   It's a resource for other people that like the kind of thing that you like.

00:33:09   But you know, maybe this will be entered into a museum in some time in the future, like

00:33:14   many of your other projects at this point.

00:33:16   But I would love if that happened and that picture of you is in the Smithsonian or something.

00:33:21   That would be a lot of fun.

00:33:22   Can I ask a few technical questions?

00:33:25   I want to know if the images are full res or downsized.

00:33:30   If so, which format did you choose?

00:33:34   So I uploaded, so I use WordPress, so I uploaded to WordPress full res images.

00:33:39   WordPress creates thumbnails, like in the gallery page you see a scaled down thumbnail,

00:33:44   but if you go and you download the file and you can download all of them, you will get

00:33:47   the full res image as a download.

00:33:50   So it's 1.6 gigabytes of images in total.

00:33:54   do you have enough money to pay for that?

00:33:58   How does that work?

00:33:59   Isn't that amount of,

00:34:02   if 2,000 people download that,

00:34:05   is that not a problem for you?

00:34:07   - It may be.

00:34:08   - All right, so go, no, don't do it.

00:34:11   - That's true.

00:34:12   - So I use a host, a WordPress host that's like,

00:34:15   has a CDN built in,

00:34:17   and I have a pretty big bandwidth cap on my account.

00:34:22   I've never been over before,

00:34:23   including with the, you know, like the 5k retina wallpapers I did last year, they still do like a

00:34:29   thousand downloads a day like that that page is remarkably consistent. It's done. I forget tweeted

00:34:35   it a couple like earlier this month. I forget how many hundreds of thousands of pages that has now.

00:34:38   I've never had problems with it. So I'm keeping an eye on that. But unless you scrape my server,

00:34:44   which please don't scrape my server. Unless someone does that, like it'd be so much work

00:34:48   to download them all then you know I'm not too worried about that.

00:34:56   That's the way to solve it right BitTorrent? Is that still a thing?

00:34:58   Mm-hmm. It's probably still a thing. Sure. Any other technical questions Federico?

00:35:02   Yeah I want to know how you renamed each file if you used like a like a batch

00:35:09   rename solution or something like that? I did so the file name so let me go into

00:35:15   to this. So if you look at my Mavericks folder, so like the Mavericks chess image

00:35:21   is like 10-9-mavericks-chess.png and so when I created them as I was

00:35:28   pulling them off them that like the test bench onto my laptop I just named what

00:35:31   the screenshot was so I just named it chess and then I used Automator on the

00:35:35   Mac to to do a couple things. One, earlier versions of Mac OS I had just forgotten

00:35:40   gotten this save your screenshots as TIFF files and you can change that in

00:35:45   terminal but I forgot on a couple releases because I set up each release

00:35:49   fresh and so I had one work or one automator action to convert TIFF to ping

00:35:55   because all these are PNGs and then I had another one that did my renaming so

00:36:00   it added the 10 - 9 - maverick - in front of the file name. Alright so

00:36:05   everything is automator is the one you okay yes all right yeah those are my two

00:36:13   questions actually and also I wanted to have like a quick thought for you if you

00:36:19   will I think you said that it didn't make sense from a budget perspective to

00:36:24   do this kind of project honestly I think like this is marketing for you so the

00:36:30   - It's brand.

00:36:31   - It's not necessarily, yes, that's how you say it.

00:36:35   But like sometimes you just gotta do things as an investment

00:36:39   because it's part of your website,

00:36:41   it's part of your persona,

00:36:43   or it's part of your brand online.

00:36:45   Like it's something that now,

00:36:46   even though it was a huge time sink,

00:36:48   now everybody's talking about it.

00:36:50   In our community now,

00:36:51   everybody's paying attention to this today

00:36:53   and they associate your name and your website

00:36:55   with this project.

00:36:56   So.

00:36:58   Anytime you do something like this and people say of course he did exactly did the right thing

00:37:03   Right, like people are seeing this like what like course he did this

00:37:07   I have another question for you though, but do you want to say anything on that?

00:37:11   Because I have one last question for you. No, I think you're right and

00:37:14   and like it never really was a

00:37:17   like I never really like sat down thought like oh, I really shouldn't do this like

00:37:22   When this idea came to me at the end of last year

00:37:26   It really was a how do I do it like and that was the hardest part of like just putting my head around

00:37:30   How do I make 1500 screenshots let alone like show them to people?

00:37:34   Yeah, you're right

00:37:36   Like I never really had a serious conversation with myself or with a spreadsheet about like well, you're gonna spend this much time on this

00:37:43   part of that and part of that like

00:37:45   When you're self-employed and you do a project like this part of the way that you sort of

00:37:52   handle it is this was like a back burner thing, right?

00:37:57   So like weeks that I had five podcasts to produce,

00:37:59   I didn't work on this, right?

00:38:01   I worked on my quiet weeks of recording

00:38:03   or I worked on it in the evening.

00:38:05   Like it was a side project to my main work.

00:38:08   I didn't reschedule any podcasts to work on this.

00:38:11   So a lot of this is like prioritization of tasks

00:38:15   and of jobs and that's one reason this took so long

00:38:18   because it was like I will slowly chip away at this.

00:38:22   You can actually look if you look at the iCal or the calendar screenshots, that

00:38:27   screenshot has an event for the day and time I made the images.

00:38:31   And so you will see like make OS X lie in screenshots for like sometime in July or

00:38:35   whenever it was. So that's like a little breadcrumb.

00:38:38   You can kind of see how long it took me to do them.

00:38:40   Upsack. Yeah.

00:38:42   Right. So my last question for you is, are you now tied to this forever?

00:38:50   Like, you're gonna do this for all of them now, right?

00:38:53   Like, that's how this goes.

00:38:55   - Well, you're assuming that my class

00:38:56   is staying around for a long time.

00:38:57   - Hey-oh!

00:38:58   Hey-oh!

00:38:59   - Yeah, my plan is like, the way I view it, right,

00:39:02   I did, what is it, 15 releases?

00:39:06   And I'm only gonna have one a year in moving forward.

00:39:10   So one thing, actually the three of us have talked about

00:39:12   is how to handle Mojave.

00:39:13   And the right way to handle it is to do two sets,

00:39:16   light mode and dark mode.

00:39:17   And my thought is, after Mojave,

00:39:19   probably just picking light mode or unless dark mode kind of becomes the

00:39:22   default but Mojave I think should have both because that's the first time

00:39:26   they've done both so Mojave will be probably like 230 images or so probably

00:39:31   like maybe like 250 but I do feel like if I want this to be a resource it's got

00:39:37   to be updated and I can do a single OS in a day I got towards the end of this

00:39:43   it went much faster because I had sort of everything in place now I'll lose a

00:39:47   little time because I have to do it every year and kind of get reacclimated

00:39:50   to the screenshot list and everything but I don't think like the bulk of the

00:39:55   work is behind me in terms of like startup time so my my intention is to

00:40:02   keep this thing updated as long as I as long as I absolutely can. Something else

00:40:06   about the future though that's interesting I've gotten several

00:40:08   comments about it actually just while just as we were recording updated the

00:40:13   blog post. One thing I want to do and is not there now is I want there to be the

00:40:20   ability that if you want to see every screenshot of the display system

00:40:27   preference throughout the all the releases that there's a single page you

00:40:30   can do that the gallery does not offer that right now like the the actually

00:40:35   like WordPress itself doesn't offer me that right now so it's going to be some

00:40:39   custom development or something that I haven't discovered yet to do that. So A, if you're

00:40:44   listening and you're a WordPress person and you know an easy way to do this, let me know,

00:40:48   please email me because I want it to do that.

00:40:50   That it seems as almost seems as logical to do it that way than the way that you did it.

00:40:55   Like you had to make a decision. I think you made the right one. Yes. But like sometimes

00:40:59   it, it were in some instances it will be more interesting to see how did this change over

00:41:03   time and then look at them all. Right. Yeah. And so that's something like I kind of just

00:41:07   Once I was done making the images,

00:41:10   I sort of had to decide what version one of this

00:41:15   was going to be, and this is what I came down to.

00:41:19   I can do it by release, and I sort them,

00:41:23   the galleries are sorted manually, that took a long time,

00:41:26   and they're in order throughout.

00:41:28   So the desktop is always first in all of them.

00:41:32   System preferences are always grouped at the end

00:41:34   on all of them.

00:41:35   So you can go through them manually

00:41:37   and get a sense for where things are, but I want that to be easier.

00:41:40   So that is a future improvement I want to make.

00:41:42   Um, it's just not there.

00:41:44   It wasn't there for release.

00:41:45   Cause at some point you just got to ship the thing and I figured, you know,

00:41:49   nine months of work, I probably should ship something and then I can come back

00:41:52   and do that in the future.

00:41:53   Very nice.

00:41:55   Well, go, everyone should go check it out.

00:41:57   Five, 12 pixels.net.

00:41:58   Of course, there'll be links in the show notes.

00:41:59   I have a game I would like to play before we go to our next break.

00:42:04   And it is a prediction game.

00:42:06   because I saw on Twitter today people talking about our good friend AirPower.

00:42:12   It is horrifically close to a year since AirPower was released, so I thought to myself,

00:42:19   "When is AirPower going to come out?"

00:42:21   So I would like, I think I have three options, okay?

00:42:27   Before the iPhone event, released alongside the iPhone, or released at a later date than the iPhone.

00:42:33   So, I would like us all to put a marker as to when we believe it will be released.

00:42:41   And then we can check on this in a couple of weeks time I guess.

00:42:46   What's the price?

00:42:47   Is there a price?

00:42:48   I don't know.

00:42:49   For the competition?

00:42:51   Just bragging rights I guess.

00:42:52   It's like all the other predictions games that we play, you know?

00:42:57   Okay, fine.

00:43:02   Well you didn't ask but I'll go first.

00:43:04   [laughter]

00:43:06   I don't care.

00:43:08   This isn't a like, if you say it, I can't say it.

00:43:10   Right? Like, that's not how it works.

00:43:12   You don't take it from everyone.

00:43:14   Yeah.

00:43:16   Before the iPhone sometime

00:43:18   around next week or the week after

00:43:20   I think they

00:43:22   really don't want to do, it's like an

00:43:24   AirPlay 2 situation, they don't want to have

00:43:26   WWDC and AirPlay 2 isn't out yet

00:43:28   so they release 11.4

00:43:30   Same with AirPower, they don't want to have another iPhone event and the thing that was on stage last year is still not out

00:43:36   So just I can say that technically all the new iPhones already work with AirPower

00:43:41   I think it will come out before

00:43:43   Yeah

00:43:45   Steven, when do you think?

00:43:47   This is not what you're looking for. I think they will they will talk about it at the event and it will be by the end of

00:43:52   The year so I'm gonna say the first week of December

00:43:54   Okay, that's not one of the answers. So is you're saying release that a later date than the iPhone

00:43:59   You don't have to give that specific.

00:44:01   Yeah, after the iPhone.

00:44:02   After the iPhone.

00:44:03   Okay.

00:44:04   I'm also going after the iPhone.

00:44:06   Let me give you my reason for this Federico.

00:44:10   I understand what you're saying, but they could just ship AirPlay 2 and then fix more

00:44:14   stuff to it later if they need to.

00:44:16   They can't do that with the hardware.

00:44:17   If they're struggling to make this hardware, which it seems that's the case, they can't

00:44:23   just put it out, right?

00:44:24   Like, you can't just be like, "Oh, it's good enough.

00:44:28   ship it and I figured that if it was good, if it was ready, it would have already been

00:44:34   released.

00:44:35   I don't feel that necessarily applies to Airplay 2 because you're dealing with partners, you're

00:44:40   dealing with companies that make speakers with Airplay 2 in them. So it's not like,

00:44:43   "Well, we can release a crappy protocol now."

00:44:46   It's software though. It can't be updated with software, right?

00:44:48   It's not like they're making Airplay 3 the week after. So it needed to be good and it

00:44:55   was late but like I don't think just because it's all for it can be buggy and

00:45:00   then they can fix it especially when you're dealing with companies like

00:45:04   Sonos and others like Libra tone they're making speakers with a play too I don't

00:45:08   think it's easy like that well I don't know the mark that we have set the marks

00:45:13   none of us think that is coming out with the iPhone which could be where we all

00:45:16   fall down but Federico says before and me and Steven say a date later but we

00:45:24   No prize. No prize. No prize. No prize. It's purely bragging rights, you know, sometimes that's all it is

00:45:30   Yeah, I don't I don't get it

00:45:32   You know

00:45:32   I never got competitions where you don't win you don't win a prize like when I hear when I hear parents say to

00:45:38   You know these parents they say to their kids. It doesn't matter that you don't win

00:45:43   Oh, you need to win. Okay when I have a kid, I'm gonna tell him you need to win

00:45:46   I will come up with some kind of prize. All right, okay for the win and the winner will get a prize

00:45:52   I don't know what it will be. I mean it's fun to play but it's better if you win.

00:45:56   Okay. How do you feel about all of the other predictions that we set?

00:46:00   So like our full year-on 2018 predictions, there's no prize for that.

00:46:04   And the audio predictions, there were no prize for those either.

00:46:08   Are we just gonna say that from now all of these, there'll be prizes for everything?

00:46:13   Is that what you need? You could retroactively come up with

00:46:17   prices for predictions that were already published.

00:46:22   What happened to you on your vacation? Did someone did someone screw you out or something?

00:46:27   Is that what's happened? Like now you require prizes?

00:46:30   I just I have a higher appreciation for winning. That's what I'm saying.

00:46:34   Whoa.

00:46:34   I'm more relaxed so I have more time to think about the things that matter in life.

00:46:39   And for me winning is one of those things.

00:46:41   Interesting.

00:46:43   Did you miss me Myke?

00:46:45   I'm keen to see how this plays out in the long term.

00:46:48   All right, well, yeah.

00:46:51   So Stephen, make note of the predictions and write down somewhere that Myke's promised a prize

00:46:56   and then I'll work that out.

00:46:57   You can't give your toilet trophy away as a prize.

00:47:01   Okay.

00:47:02   Rumbled.

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00:49:12   All right, well we're talking about old stuff, let's talk about the Mac Mini.

00:49:17   Everyone's favorite computing device. Sounds good. So there was a report out by

00:49:22   Bloomberg this week talking about a new low-cost laptop to replace the Air but

00:49:27   we're gonna just side set that today and talk about the Mac Mini. This is a quote

00:49:33   "For this year's model Apple is focusing for this year's model just by the way

00:49:37   like as if they do it annually for this decade's model for this for this this

00:49:43   new update to the regularly updated product Apple is focusing focusing

00:49:48   primarily on pro users with new storage and processor options that are likely to

00:49:53   make it more expensive than previous versions people said. So the question is

00:49:57   what is a pro Mac Mini? What does that look like? Do you think there will be a

00:50:02   pro focus Mac Mini or do you think it's gonna say it is? Do you think it will

00:50:05   actually be something that is powered like a professional product or do you

00:50:10   think that's just the line that they will go with? I think that there will be

00:50:16   be aspects of it that will be pro-like, but that people who really want or need something

00:50:25   like a Mac Pro will complain about it.

00:50:28   I think what this means is you're going to have some high-end CPU options, it'll have

00:50:36   fast SSDs, it'll have Thunderbolt 3.

00:50:38   A ton of storage.

00:50:39   You can put a few terabytes or something in there.

00:50:42   I assume it would still be a not huge, not tiny, but like a chunky box, you know, which

00:50:48   they could probably put a lot of stuff into.

00:50:50   Mm hmm.

00:50:51   It's like my my kind of thought on this right to answer your question is, imagine the Mac

00:50:57   Pro that we have before, but it's because it's all sealed up. Like what you will put

00:51:03   in this thing is what will stay in this thing. And then the difference between it and the

00:51:07   Mac Pro would be that the Mac Pro can be upgraded. Right? Like that that will be one of the

00:51:12   I think one of the key differences between it other than just like raw power. Yeah, well, I think powers the bigger deal

00:51:17   I envisioned this being more like a high-end MacBook Pro then then

00:51:23   Yes, even like the iMac Pro like yeah, like I don't sit between

00:51:27   MacBook Pro and iMac Pro in its capability level maybe or maybe even just the high-end MacBook Pro

00:51:34   I don't I don't think anyone's gonna be confused if this is true and the Mac Pro ever ships

00:51:38   I don't think anyone's gonna walk into an Apple store and wonder which one they should buy like I think that

00:51:44   There is room in the Mac mini

00:51:46   Especially especially when it's like 10 years old you can just do anything and it seems more pro like right like

00:51:52   Anything's better

00:51:54   That it will be faster and more capable than ever

00:51:56   But its capabilities and performance will be nothing compared to the Mac Pro

00:52:03   I think the Mac Pro is way at the top and the Mac Mini somewhere in the middle again like a high-end MacBook Pro

00:52:09   I think that's a reasonable place to be if you look at where the Mac Mini used to be when it was competitive

00:52:14   Back ten years ago. It was somewhere, you know high MacBook mid MacBook Pro

00:52:21   spec like it wasn't the fastest machine in the world, but

00:52:25   Very rarely was it super far behind?

00:52:29   Anything else, you know, they did have a core solo at the beginning and that you know

00:52:32   They've changed the price point a couple times, but the Mac Mini was reasonably

00:52:36   respectable in terms of performance, so I

00:52:39   Anticipate that to continue this is I don't think this means the Mac Mini is going to be expandable

00:52:43   I do not think in any way this means that this machine the Mac Pro or the same computer like people always

00:52:50   Try to do that. They always tried like oh, what does make an expandable Mac Mini and call it the Mac Pro

00:52:54   These are different computers. Like this is not gonna have a Xeon in it

00:52:57   I think that's the I think that's the rule that's the line

00:53:00   I will be shocked at the Mac mini has a Z on it. I think that's an iMac Pro and Mac Pro exclusive

00:53:05   So it's gonna be yeah, it was sit on it. It's like a professional machine

00:53:10   Which isn't crazy expensive that you can put into your already existing setup, right? Yes, but

00:53:18   What will make it more professional than the Mac mini before it like when the Mac mini came out?

00:53:27   Not the one where they made it worse. So let's imagine the one before that. Mm-hmm

00:53:30   Like was that machine considered to be powerful and then what would what would you do to make this one?

00:53:37   To be considered a pro machine where the previous Mac mini and like the reason the Mac mini was created

00:53:43   Was to be like the most consumer e consumer machine possible right because it was for switches

00:53:47   I mean, I think just make it space gray. That's all it really takes right like you joke, but that might be

00:53:53   This will be available in space gray

00:53:56   Which I would buy it in because mine's under my TV and I like it to be less conspicuous.

00:54:02   Paint it.

00:54:05   Sick decal or something.

00:54:06   Make it look like a pencil.

00:54:09   Yeah, I mean, right, these are unanswered questions.

00:54:11   So my thought is, you know, high-end MacBook Pro is their target and that is higher than

00:54:18   the Mac Mini has been historically.

00:54:21   You brought up the idea of the starter Mac and I think that's really a very important

00:54:26   Factor in this so when the Mac Mini was introduced in 2005 it was pitched by Steve Jobs as hey

00:54:33   You want to move to the Mac? You've got a desktop Windows box and you got a display and keyboard and mouse

00:54:37   Unplug the Dell plug this thing and you can use your display keyboard and mouse and you have a Mac and it was 500 bucks

00:54:44   It was considered that like the I forget what the is like bring your own display keyboard and mouse

00:54:49   B.o.i.o. DKM the worst marketing slogan of all time

00:54:53   He said that as a joke and people just stared at him.

00:54:56   Like there's a YouTube link in the show notes,

00:54:57   go watch that, it's like 10 minutes,

00:54:59   go watch that keynote, it's funny.

00:55:01   But I don't think the world needs a starter desktop anymore.

00:55:05   Like then desktops in 2005, desktops were,

00:55:09   they were already on the way out as far as size of market,

00:55:14   right, that notebooks were already taking off.

00:55:16   But now Apple sells, what is it,

00:55:18   80, 85% of the Mac sold are notebooks, maybe even higher.

00:55:22   Like, there's not a need for a starter desktop anymore.

00:55:25   I think if people buy their first Mac,

00:55:27   it should be that low-cost MacBook Air

00:55:29   that Germin talked about that we're skipping over this week.

00:55:32   So in that world, if the Mac Mini's supposed

00:55:35   to be a starter Mac, the Mac Mini shouldn't exist anymore.

00:55:38   But what has happened over time is people like us

00:55:41   have purchased the Mac Mini to use as a home server

00:55:46   to run things like iTunes or Hazel or Time Machine backups,

00:55:50   to have one in a data center.

00:55:52   If you're listening to the live stream, you're listening through a Mac Mini.

00:55:55   We have a Mac Mini at Mac Stadium that is our live streaming server.

00:55:59   You buy it because you want something, a small dedicated Mac, to do things for you.

00:56:05   And I think Apple has noticed that and maybe the pivot here is go from the starter Mac

00:56:12   to like a small enthusiast's desktop.

00:56:14   It's not going to sell in massive numbers, but people who want that want more power out

00:56:19   of it.

00:56:20   put these things in offices,

00:56:22   people put these things in,

00:56:24   like software developers use them, right,

00:56:26   to use it as build servers.

00:56:28   Address that market,

00:56:30   because that's where the Mac Mini has gone over time.

00:56:33   And I think that's exciting.

00:56:34   Like as someone who has two of these,

00:56:35   I have one at home as an entertainment server,

00:56:38   and the one that Rila owns at Mac Stadium,

00:56:40   I would purchase two of these.

00:56:44   Both of mine are aging.

00:56:46   My one at home is not doing very well,

00:56:48   And I'm all for something like this,

00:56:51   because I think there's room for it in the line.

00:56:53   And I think people would be excited about it.

00:56:55   I can see a scenario where it's either a companion computer

00:57:00   for pro users, like established pro users,

00:57:02   like developers or video makers.

00:57:04   And they want something external that does something

00:57:07   in the background.

00:57:08   And it's like a home server, or it's like a build server.

00:57:11   It's an external utility that still runs Mac OS.

00:57:15   Or, if you're a sort of prosumer, which is a terrible word, but it's totally like this niche market of people that don't need to assemble complex 3D graphics for NASA or something like that,

00:57:27   but still they want to run something that requires a bit of power, not the power of the Mac Pro, but also something that requires something beefier or dedicated that is not the main MacBook Pro or the MacBook.

00:57:40   So I can see like the the Mac Mini sort of

00:57:44   feeling what's it called the price umbrella that

00:57:48   You know, you cannot buy I don't want to buy a Mac Pro just to encode video

00:57:54   For example, it would be a waste of money. But also I don't want to buy a new MacBook Pro

00:57:59   I just want a tiny Mac that does stuff and

00:58:02   That's exactly what the Mac Mini is for especially if they sort of I don't think they will

00:58:09   presenting it as a pro computer for pro users.

00:58:12   I can see Apple saying,

00:58:14   and it's also great for pro customers,

00:58:16   or we hear about the, from pro customers,

00:58:19   but I've seen people on Twitter say

00:58:21   they're gonna call it the Mac Pro Mini or the Mac Mini Pro.

00:58:23   I don't think they're gonna change the name.

00:58:25   It's still gonna be the Mac Mini,

00:58:27   but it's all gonna be in the message.

00:58:28   - Yeah, 'cause if you had the Mac Mini Pro,

00:58:30   then you have to keep selling the old Mac Mini,

00:58:32   which just feels like torture at this point.

00:58:34   Like, just let the thing, just let it die, you know?

00:58:37   Like, it's fine.

00:58:38   Just let it have it go out to posture like that that machine is done

00:58:42   It's it's very much done at this point like I'm on the web page for the Mac Mini right now

00:58:47   It's using one of the old Apple cinema displays

00:58:49   Like that's just sitting on the page

00:58:54   That's the whole way down just a cinema display. Can you have at least updated it with the LG image?

00:59:00   Like it must not be too difficult to run it. It won't run the LG display because it has Thunderbolt 2

00:59:06   Holy moly, it's just like you just show like a little chain of dongles in the background

00:59:10   Oh, yeah, and just don't pay attention that it's not full res

00:59:13   the the thing yeah, the thing here is like I

00:59:16   really believe that the mini was going to be phased out and

00:59:20   in this like

00:59:23   Apple discovering that they still make Mac somehow

00:59:26   Like so they go so make max we should do something about that

00:59:30   like I think like if this is a response to people like the three of us who

00:59:34   either currently own or used to or want to own machines like this for like the things we're talking about

00:59:41   Like that's really encouraging like I am I'm genuinely I got everything in the fall. Like of course, I want to do iPhone

00:59:47   Maybe in the market for an iPad but like as a Mac user

00:59:52   this is exciting to me because it means that Apple is paying attention to like what we want and

00:59:57   You know update this thing put Thunderbolt 3 in it and it could be a great little home server

01:00:03   It'd be a great machine for a bunch of different things.

01:00:06   Just the way the Mac Mini, the Mac Mini still is good.

01:00:10   It's slow, but it's still good at these things

01:00:12   because of its size.

01:00:13   If you look at the broader PC market,

01:00:18   Snell Zone has talked a lot about this

01:00:19   with the Intel NUC, which is a little bitty PC.

01:00:24   You put an SSD in it, it's super fast,

01:00:27   and it's smaller than the Mac Mini, but way more powerful.

01:00:32   there are markets for this type of computer.

01:00:34   It's not a huge market, but the Mac's not a huge market.

01:00:37   Like the Mac can be,

01:00:39   like the iPhone has to reach a bunch of people, right?

01:00:41   That's why we talked about like this cheaper phone.

01:00:43   The iPad's gotta reach a bunch of people,

01:00:44   so they have different sizes with different capabilities.

01:00:47   Like the Mac is a smaller market,

01:00:48   and you can be really specific in your modeling.

01:00:52   Like the iMac Pro,

01:00:54   I can't imagine the sales numbers being massive,

01:00:56   but for those who need it, it's the perfect answer.

01:01:00   Same with the Mac Pro,

01:01:01   if they're going to bring this to the low end with the Mac Mini, then that's great too.

01:01:05   So, uh, I don't know. Color me excited boys. Like, uh, I'm, I'm signing up.

01:01:09   I want, I want a future professional level Mac Mini in my life.

01:01:13   Oh yeah.

01:01:14   Can I just address the elephant in the room super quick?

01:01:17   Is there one?

01:01:19   I think there is one, which is like, why? Like, why are they like,

01:01:24   it feels like the use cases for this are small.

01:01:28   And even if the people that would buy it potentially,

01:01:32   they probably already own another machine.

01:01:34   Like the amount that you would actually sell of these

01:01:37   is very small for a company.

01:01:41   - Probably for the same reason

01:01:43   that Steven did the Aqua Screenshot Library, honestly.

01:01:45   It's, well, I feel like they,

01:01:49   it's an important part of the message

01:01:51   that Apple is recommending to the Mac

01:01:53   and to the pro community.

01:01:54   Also, I don't think they're gonna lose money on this.

01:01:58   They figure if they're doing this,

01:02:00   it's because they can make a profit out of these Mac Minis.

01:02:03   But more importantly than that,

01:02:04   I think it's important to see Apple saying,

01:02:08   we're redoing the entire Mac lineup

01:02:11   and we're updating this lineup on an annual basis.

01:02:14   Or I mean, even the Mac Mini every couple of years

01:02:17   would be fine.

01:02:18   I think it's more than that,

01:02:20   I think it's important for Apple to say,

01:02:22   we haven't forgotten about Pro users,

01:02:25   please don't switch to Windows.

01:02:27   Yeah, absolutely.

01:02:28   It's this machine,

01:02:31   the iMac, I felt this way about the iMac Pro,

01:02:33   but I really feel this way about the Mac Mini.

01:02:36   If this is true and this comes to pass

01:02:37   and it's what we all want,

01:02:40   it's actually not even about the computer.

01:02:42   It's about, like Federico said,

01:02:43   it's about the statement to like diehard Mac Pro user

01:02:47   or Mac professional users that Apple's listening.

01:02:51   Like if this is a Pro, like whatever that means,

01:02:54   if it means I can get an i9 in it with 32 gigs of RAM

01:02:56   and a super fast SSD, say that's all true.

01:02:59   That means Apple's paying attention

01:03:00   to what we're doing with Mac Minis.

01:03:02   That is, as Mac fans well know,

01:03:05   we've all felt a little neglected

01:03:07   over the last several years.

01:03:08   And this would be just like one more chapter

01:03:11   in the book of Apple saying,

01:03:13   we are committed to the Mac,

01:03:14   we are committed to you, our professional users,

01:03:16   and we know that some of you want this,

01:03:19   and so we made it for you.

01:03:21   Here it is.

01:03:21   And I'm sure some of us will complain about the price,

01:03:23   But it's, for me, it's a much more like a signal

01:03:28   than like what the actual thing is.

01:03:31   - Watch them just put two USB-C ports on it.

01:03:34   (laughs)

01:03:34   That's it.

01:03:35   - I know, right?

01:03:36   - Ones for power.

01:03:37   - Yeah.

01:03:38   (laughs)

01:03:40   Can you imagine?

01:03:42   You can't, and you have to buy the power cable separately

01:03:46   because that's upper roles.

01:03:48   That'd be a bummer, Myke.

01:03:50   I don't want that future.

01:03:52   I really love Apple, right?

01:03:55   Like love them obviously,

01:03:56   but I really can't imagine that they make this thing

01:03:59   and not upset everyone that they're trying

01:04:01   to make feel happy.

01:04:03   I just know something, something will be like an oversight.

01:04:08   - But I don't think that's happened with the iMac Pro,

01:04:12   honestly, like there are people who like complaints

01:04:14   and all in one, but like, I know,

01:04:16   but I mean, I maybe know everyone with an iMac Pro,

01:04:18   maybe it's just people on relay,

01:04:19   but like the iMac Pro seems to be very well received.

01:04:24   - Honestly, of all the things that Apple makes

01:04:26   that have Pro in the name,

01:04:28   I feel like the MacBook Pro

01:04:30   is the only one that people hate.

01:04:32   I mean, except for the Mac Pro,

01:04:34   which they are still in the process of redoing.

01:04:36   - Right, but that's two out of three though so far.

01:04:39   - Well, no, there's no, there's iPad Pro.

01:04:42   iPad Pro, people love.

01:04:44   - Okay, well, that's a different thing.

01:04:46   - Well, I said of all the things

01:04:48   that Apple makes with Pro in the name.

01:04:49   Yeah, yeah, okay, okay, okay. So we got half the...

01:04:52   And they barely make the Mac Pro, like they're just, you know,

01:04:55   it's like one dude hand-assembling them in Texas alone in his garage.

01:04:58   We still have to see about the Mac Pro, that's what I'm saying.

01:05:02   Yeah, so like the jury's still out on that one.

01:05:04   Yeah, but yeah, the MacBook Pro continues to be, you know,

01:05:09   the ugly kid of the bunch that everybody makes fun of,

01:05:13   which is a terrible metaphor, but it gives you the idea.

01:05:16   Well, and if they do fix the Mac Mini, then like, yeah, the MacBook Pro still has issues,

01:05:23   but Apple's just slowly knocking things off the punch list, right?

01:05:27   Things that people are upset about with the Mac.

01:05:30   And I can't complain about that, even if they haven't gotten to all of them yet.

01:05:34   And in the words of a wise man, there's nothing so perfect that can't be complained

01:05:39   about.

01:05:40   So there always will be complaints about things.

01:05:43   like if the Mac Mini is way faster and updated again has Thunderbolt 3 and even if it's like 1200 bucks like

01:05:49   There's not that much to complain about that and I really feel like the iMac Pro

01:05:53   Like is in direct opposition to that sort of feeling because like honestly I don't think there's widespread complaints about this computer

01:06:01   I guess it's expensive. Yes, you can't upgrade it. But like what people like have them on their desk using them

01:06:06   Everyone seems really happy. I know I love mine

01:06:08   It's absolutely the best Mac I've ever owned and I fully anticipate using this computer

01:06:13   or its

01:06:15   predecessors

01:06:16   Successors. Yeah successors for a long time

01:06:19   Oh, well, I say is all we have is what's in front of us, right?

01:06:21   Like all we have available to us right now is what's available

01:06:23   And like when you turn that on its head the iMac Pro is the only Mac right now that people are happy about

01:06:29   like universally

01:06:31   That's fair so

01:06:36   You know, I just feel like yes that could mean that like all of the subsequent ones will be better

01:06:41   But they haven't done that with the MacBook Pro yet. Like the MacBook Pro seems to continue to have

01:06:47   The majority of things wrong with it that people think are wrong with it

01:06:52   Right, like the ports are still the same the keyboard still seems to be

01:06:56   Have some issues to it. All right, and I know that like a lot of the internals got better

01:07:02   But like they could still be better, right? So that still has problems. The iMac is

01:07:08   Getting a bit long in the tooth now, right the MacBook Air my gosh can't believe it. The MacBook is still

01:07:14   Has the issues that it has if you consider them issues, right?

01:07:18   So like I know there are people that are happy with their MacBooks and MacBooks their MacBook Pros and their iMacs

01:07:23   but like the people that are

01:07:26   in the pro market tend to have more complaints about all of those machines and

01:07:31   and the iMac Pro seems to be the only one that is universally liked by people that are in our

01:07:37   industry and beyond. So like I just feel like when you I completely understand what you're both

01:07:42   saying but when you turn it on its head that's a little bit more worrying. It could mean though

01:07:46   right that the iMac Pro is like the first of the change but nothing else has come out significantly

01:07:54   revamped since that machine and where it looks like we're about to start seeing that but what's

01:08:00   what's that gonna look like?

01:08:01   Is the MacBook Air gonna be closer to the iMac Pro

01:08:05   or the MacBook Pro and what it does

01:08:06   to redefine what that product's about?

01:08:09   - I guess that depends on the keyboard they put in it.

01:08:11   - Exactly.

01:08:13   So this is what I'm saying,

01:08:14   so what are they gonna do there?

01:08:15   Is it gonna be more like the MacBook Air keyboard

01:08:17   or the MacBook Pro keyboard?

01:08:18   So does that mean that they ruin another machine?

01:08:21   And then where does the Mac,

01:08:23   is the Mac Mini gonna have only three USB-C ports

01:08:26   and that's it?

01:08:27   - No.

01:08:28   - 'Cause that will upset people.

01:08:29   And then what about the Mac Pro?

01:08:30   Like what does modular mean?

01:08:32   Like my point is like, I understand where you're coming from,

01:08:35   but this could be amazing or it could not be.

01:08:39   And I personally feel like

01:08:41   that I don't have a good understanding.

01:08:43   Like I wouldn't be able to point to what I actually think

01:08:46   is gonna happen with all of these devices.

01:08:47   'Cause I think the jury's still out on everything.

01:08:50   - Maybe.

01:08:51   Well, I guess we'll see.

01:08:52   I mean, I'm choosing to be optimistic

01:08:54   to borrow a phrase of yours, so.

01:08:56   - Yeah, so it's always good to be optimistic.

01:08:58   - Yeah, but you can feel that the year of optimism

01:09:00   is over for Myke.

01:09:02   - No, no, because these are things

01:09:03   that I'm not too fussed about.

01:09:05   I'm really excited about the things I'm excited about.

01:09:07   (laughing)

01:09:09   I would love if they update the Mac Mini in any way,

01:09:12   I'll be happy, I'll probably buy one

01:09:13   'cause I've been thinking about getting a home server again

01:09:15   to do some little tasks.

01:09:17   So like I will be happy,

01:09:18   but my point is that the things that will upset people,

01:09:22   I'm not in that market.

01:09:23   So for me, it's not like my personal optimism,

01:09:26   which I'm now maybe changing it to the year of,

01:09:28   but like yes, the year of optimism is over.

01:09:30   Let's say that this one is the year of personal optimism.

01:09:33   All the stuff that I'm excited about,

01:09:34   I'm actually very confident it's only gonna get better.

01:09:36   The iPads are gonna be incredible.

01:09:38   I'm gonna get a big iPhone.

01:09:39   I feel like all that stuff is amazing.

01:09:41   And then any of the Pro Max that come out

01:09:44   will be right for me, right?

01:09:46   So like the iMac Pro would be right for me right now,

01:09:49   but I just don't feel like I need for an upgrade.

01:09:51   The Mac Mini, if it has new internals,

01:09:54   will be better for me than maybe my iMac,

01:09:56   but I wouldn't change that.

01:09:57   But then I may go to the Mac Pro route

01:09:58   because it allows me to buy one machine

01:09:59   and keep it for the next 10 years.

01:10:01   So to me personally, I think this stuff's great,

01:10:04   but my concern is for the people that really seem to care,

01:10:07   like the people that are entrenched in the Mac

01:10:10   and what it means to be a pro right now,

01:10:11   I just feel like I wouldn't necessarily say like,

01:10:14   this product's gonna be awesome.

01:10:17   And the reasons are because Apple's committed

01:10:19   to the Mac again, because there are two products

01:10:22   that have come out since that announcement

01:10:24   and we've got a clear 50/50 split on it.

01:10:28   - Mm-hmm, so you're gonna buy a Mac Mini.

01:10:31   That's the--

01:10:32   - It is possible that I will buy a Mac Mini, yes.

01:10:34   Like if the price is right and the features are there,

01:10:36   then I might go down that route,

01:10:38   because I wanna, there's, you know, like you,

01:10:40   and we can maybe talk about this another time,

01:10:41   but there's some stuff that I've been thinking about

01:10:43   that might be good, like network attached storage, VNC,

01:10:45   to perform some basic tasks that I need a Mac for,

01:10:48   but doing one on my iPad, sort of, all that kind of stuff.

01:10:51   But we'll get to that maybe another time.

01:10:53   So next week, next week, why do we want to buy a Mac Mini?

01:10:58   - There you go. - Okay.

01:10:59   - There you go, okay.

01:11:01   - I'll put it, follow it for next week.

01:11:02   - Perfect.

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01:12:44   Alright, so, over the last

01:12:49   couple of months, we have been talking about Twitter API changes.

01:12:55   This has been a topic that has come and gone, this news has changed and we found

01:13:00   out more about it. Last week Twitter did what they've been

01:13:03   talking about, they killed a selection of APIs that meant that third-party apps

01:13:08   had to remove some of the following features.

01:13:13   Apps like Tweetbot and Twitterific,

01:13:15   they had to remove notifications for retweets,

01:13:17   quote tweets, likes, and follows.

01:13:19   There are delays for other notification types,

01:13:22   if supported at all.

01:13:23   The removal of any stats or activity views

01:13:26   because they were powered by the APIs

01:13:28   that provided those notifications.

01:13:30   They had to remove Apple Watch apps as well

01:13:33   for the same reason.

01:13:34   And the ability to stream tweets has been removed.

01:13:38   They no longer appear in real time, you have to refresh things and they'll come through

01:13:44   in maybe a minute or two in delay, let's say.

01:13:49   So live tweeting something doesn't really work anymore in third party apps because everything

01:13:54   comes through slower than it used to.

01:13:57   So how has this been?

01:13:59   I will start off by saying that a lot of what I expected to be how I felt about this is

01:14:06   how I feel about it.

01:14:07   notifications part doesn't bother me because I didn't use them, right? I had no notifications

01:14:12   on for any Twitter apps at all. But the ramifications of it are that big feature sets have been

01:14:17   completely wiped out. The activity and stats views in Tweetbot, which are one of my favourite

01:14:21   features is gone completely. I do wonder though, if maybe in the long run it's best for me

01:14:28   to not be following tweet engagement. Maybe that might make me a happier man.

01:14:33   Don't do that. Don't do that.

01:14:34   Yeah, but you say that we're all doing it until this week, right? Everyone's looking,

01:14:39   we're all looking, we're all looking, come on, we're all looking. How many fates did

01:14:42   I get, how many retweets did I get, people do it. Like if you tweet something out Federico

01:14:47   about an article that you've been working on for a long time.

01:14:50   Oh yeah, that I will check.

01:14:52   You know what I mean? So like it doesn't matter how much you were checking. Like I wasn't

01:14:55   checking the engagement of every tweet, but I would look at the stats page every now and

01:14:58   then a couple of times a day maybe and just see what was going on in there, right? Like

01:15:02   it was interesting to see.

01:15:03   That I understand. Notifications I don't understand. But yeah, stats is fine.

01:15:09   Timeline refresh delays are annoying, but they're not an issue for me.

01:15:13   Like it's frustrating, but I don't really care.

01:15:16   It's like whatever, it's fine, I don't mind.

01:15:19   The big issue is the fact that the activity stuff has been ripped out of Tweetbot.

01:15:22   Like the features are just completely gone.

01:15:24   That were a big feature that made me a fan of the app, right?

01:15:27   The stats view and the activity view.

01:15:29   because the activity view was interesting because I could see things

01:15:33   as they were happening in real time, the stats view was interesting because and it

01:15:36   was like an amalgamation of a load of different things and especially someone

01:15:41   didn't use notifications right like it would be good to see that stuff

01:15:44   happening every now and then I could scroll through stuff if I wanted to see

01:15:47   it and but one of the bigger things for me is that the removal of these features

01:15:52   is kind of ruined the iPad UI of Tweetbot so Tweetbot has a sidebar or like the

01:15:57   to have a sidebar and I used to have the activity stream in the sidebar so as I

01:16:03   was scrolling through my timeline I could look over and see things that

01:16:06   people were saying to me or liking or following or whatever. That's the only

01:16:10   thing I like in the sidebar. I didn't like saved searches in the sidebar, I

01:16:14   didn't like mentions in the sidebar, like it's just not the type of stuff that I

01:16:18   want to see. I like to kind of on my iPad and on my iPhone go through those

01:16:23   things as I would want to so I had less incentive to use it. Now before I talk

01:16:27   about what I then did next after having felt this way, I wanted to ask you two. So Stephen,

01:16:35   how have the API changes affected you in any way, if at all?

01:16:40   My feelings are in line with yours. I didn't use notifications except for direct messages,

01:16:46   which I never get. The few people that I talk to over DM, I like to know relatively quickly,

01:16:54   But that's fine, that delay is not a big deal.

01:16:56   I get one of those notifications a month, like it's very rare.

01:17:00   Yeah, the other stuff in Tweetbot's a bummer, but it's not going to be the end of the world.

01:17:08   I don't know if it's a huge deal.

01:17:09   I may feel differently when there's like a live Apple event or something and tweets are

01:17:14   slow.

01:17:15   That's the big thing, like the delay is most noticeable to me.

01:17:18   But yeah, but like the thing that you will all do on those days is we'll use the official

01:17:23   app.

01:17:24   I know that nobody likes it, but that's what you'll do, right?

01:17:27   Like if you need to see something in real time, well, I guess it would still work in

01:17:32   real time.

01:17:33   I guess.

01:17:34   I know that they like to mess around with the chronology of things, but you're probably

01:17:37   likely to see things in more likely real time.

01:17:41   What about you Federico?

01:17:42   Yeah, I'm still using Tweet, but honestly the major annoyance of all these changes is

01:17:50   having to use pull to refresh occasionally to refresh the timeline. I tend to check stats

01:17:57   on individual tweets more than the main activity page, if only because I'm more interested in the

01:18:05   performance of individual tweets than the aggregate number of likes and faves and engagements. So for

01:18:12   that I was already using the Twitter app because it allows me to tap on the likes and retweet

01:18:19   counts and see you actually fade or retweeted something. And to do that, I was already using,

01:18:29   so here's a teachy tip for you. If you see using Tweetbot, you can install this app called

01:18:34   Opener, an opener as an extension that you can set up so that every time you share a

01:18:40   tweet with the Opener extension, it auto loads the same tweet in the Twitter app. So you

01:18:47   just need to tap twice and you can jump to the individual tweet view for the

01:18:51   same tweet into the official app. So I was already doing that. That is a very hot

01:18:57   teachy tip. Yeah, and you can set up auto-open for like for Twitter.com

01:19:02   links you can set up auto-open in opener. I think by swiping on one of the

01:19:08   options because opener allows you to send a tweet from tweetbot to for

01:19:12   example, Twitterific or Twitter or what's the name of the other Twitter client?

01:19:17   Tweetings? Maybe? Possibly? I don't know. EchoPhone was around a long time ago.

01:19:21   How do I find this application? Because App Store search is not helping me.

01:19:25   It's called Search Opener Max Stories, probably on Google.

01:19:32   Oh God.

01:19:33   And you can find the link. Yeah, opener. Yeah. It's excellent utility. Anyway, I was already

01:19:40   doing that because I tend to check individual tweets more than the global stuff. And notifications,

01:19:46   I don't care because I never, I think since Mac stories started getting moderately popular in 2010,

01:19:57   I disabled all kinds of Twitter notifications for likes or retweets or mentions. I never, never had

01:20:03   mentions either from people who followed me or from other people like to see my mentions,

01:20:09   I opened Twitter.

01:20:10   And I used to have notifications for DMs, but I disabled them.

01:20:16   Actually, I didn't disable them, like, intentionally, but I think last year, after one of my experiments

01:20:22   where I used either Twitter or Twitterific for a while, and then I went back to Tweetbot,

01:20:27   I forgot to re-enable DM notifications, and I realized a couple of weeks later that I

01:20:33   had all of these unread messages from people, and I felt kind of crappy about that because

01:20:39   I didn't reply to those people, but then I realized, you know, it was actually kind of nice not to be bothered

01:20:43   by Twitter DMs, so I didn't re-enable them and so it's fine. I wasn't getting notifications before and I don't get notifications now.

01:20:50   I understand why some people like Twitter notifications.

01:20:53   Yeah, if you care about those it sucks, but it's what it is.

01:20:58   So I'm still using Tweetbot

01:21:02   primarily because of the iPad version

01:21:06   And for a simple reason I said that to check my mentions I go to Twitter

01:21:11   So I set aside like 10 minutes every day and I go through my mentions and what I do is I keep on the iPad

01:21:18   I keep

01:21:19   The column on the right set to to my most recent mentions and on the left

01:21:25   I go through my old mentions so that when I reply and I scroll back into previous

01:21:32   mentions on the left side. On the right side, I can refresh and see if somebody else replies

01:21:39   to my reply, I can continue the conversation. So I carry out this...

01:21:42   I'm just going to say, I'm sure you know what that meant. I could not follow that. Don't

01:21:47   try and explain it to me. It's fine.

01:21:48   No, I will.

01:21:49   But like I got very lost.

01:21:50   No, you need to understand. So there's two columns, right?

01:21:54   Yes.

01:21:55   On the left side, I scroll down. I go through all my mentions from newest to oldest. Okay?

01:22:02   - Yep. - So I scroll down. On the right side, I refresh the mentions view also.

01:22:10   - How do you refresh the view? Do you swipe down? - Yeah, you swipe down on it.

01:22:15   You pull to refresh and it's pinned to the top so that I see new replies coming in.

01:22:20   All right? So if I reply to somebody from a tweet from five hours ago, I move to

01:22:28   the next tweet from six hours ago and then to seven hours ago and so forth,

01:22:32   But on the right side I can refresh and if that person has already replied

01:22:37   I can continue the conversation right away without having to scroll back up on the left side

01:22:42   one of the things that I

01:22:44   can correct me if I'm wrong

01:22:45   but like one of the reasons that I never used like the mentions on the right and the everything else on the left is

01:22:50   That it didn't observe my place when I went into the mentions tab

01:22:54   Like if I had seen everything new when I go into the mentions tab

01:22:58   It's still gonna save my position from the last time that I was there which is like way down on the list

01:23:02   Is that true still?

01:23:04   I don't think I understand the question.

01:23:07   So let's say I'm in Tweetbot and I'm looking at my mentions, right?

01:23:14   Yes.

01:23:14   And I have a hundred mentions.

01:23:17   Like it's got the little count that says a hundred.

01:23:20   If I scrolled through on the column on the right-hand side and looked at everything,

01:23:26   in my mentions view, it's not gonna change. I still have a hundred, right?

01:23:30   It those two things operate independently of each other based upon sinking position. Mm-hmm, right? Yeah

01:23:37   Yeah, you see that's why I never wanted to use that because I don't know I've seen everything

01:23:42   I have to do what you've done which which I understand what you do it

01:23:45   But that's not the way that I used with her, right? Okay. Okay

01:23:48   I use it more by checking in multiple times through the day

01:23:50   So I want to go oldest to newest as opposed to newest to oldest

01:23:53   Okay. Okay. Yeah, I see. Yeah

01:23:57   Yeah, so that's why I never like the only thing that ever made sense to me on the right hand side was the activity view

01:24:02   Otherwise, I'm just seeing everything twice

01:24:04   Alright, but I guess I got for me. Yeah, so because of this and because of how much I use

01:24:10   Twitter on my iPad because it's where I'm doing the majority of my work. I

01:24:16   Did something I've been wanting to do for a while which is to try out Twitter if ik more seriously

01:24:23   One of the reasons I never really tried Twitterific more seriously is that the iPad app only had

01:24:28   a single column and I was like, well I don't like this.

01:24:31   I want two columns like I have on Tweetbot, but now in Tweetbot I only would have used

01:24:36   it in single column, so now I'm, you know, it kind of feels like a level playing field

01:24:41   for my major complaint with Twitterific.

01:24:45   So I have been using Twitterific for a week now as my only Twitter app on all platforms,

01:24:51   my iPhone, my iPad and my Mac. I have a lot of thoughts about it. I want to start with

01:24:57   all of the things I don't like. There's no specific -- this is going to take a few minutes,

01:25:03   but bear with me. There's no specific tab for searching. You can have tabs in the bar

01:25:11   at the top or the bottom, depending on the platform you're using. So you have my timeline,

01:25:15   Dimensions my DMS and you can have saved searches that you pick from a list

01:25:20   But you can't have a tab which is just to search everything you have to go to the sidebar to do that

01:25:25   Which is super weird to me. I don't know why if all of the other sidebar options are available

01:25:31   but I can't seem to find a way to just

01:25:33   Press a button on the iPad or the iPhone and it takes me to the master search list

01:25:39   But on the Mac version the search button takes me to the master search where I can search anything and also see my saved searches

01:25:46   I don't understand this. This is strange

01:25:48   This is actually my main problem with Twitterific in general is just like some of the decisions seem peculiar

01:25:53   Especially when you look at them on the Mac and on iOS where they're supposed to be the same now

01:25:58   But there's still some pretty significant differences between the two

01:26:00   I do like that you can have a saved search as a tab. That's really good, but I want both

01:26:07   So that's that's what I would like there

01:26:09   Information density on the iPad compared to the iPhone is very different

01:26:15   The iPad version the avatars are too large and you can't make them smaller

01:26:19   You can make text smaller

01:26:20   But you can't make the avatar smaller and it means that you don't see as many tweets as you probably should be able to

01:26:27   So I want to be able to see more on screen than I can

01:26:29   It doesn't like I can't find a way to adjust avatar sizes on the iPad

01:26:35   I'm sure this was a saying at one point, but if it's there, I don't know where it is because I can't find it

01:26:42   So I feel that the information density isn't as good timeline syncing with iCloud isn't as fast or reliable as tweet box

01:26:49   Sometimes it gets lost

01:26:51   On the Mac. They have unified timeline only you cannot separate it like you can on iOS. I don't like unified timeline

01:26:57   I like my timelines to be separate and for some reason they can't be separated

01:27:03   They have two different types of hiding things on Twitter if ik you have mutes and muffles

01:27:07   So you can muffle something it means it collapses it you mute it

01:27:12   It means it goes away and what's pretty cool about the mutes is the mutes sync with the official Twitter

01:27:17   Muting system somehow which is interesting. I think that's cool like fine that that works good

01:27:22   But there are no timed mutes or muffles. It's either on or off

01:27:27   which

01:27:29   Don't like that. I like to

01:27:32   Mute things for set periods of time or people for set periods of time rather than making it like a global on and off

01:27:38   On a side note because trying to move this stuff from place to place is impossible

01:27:42   I've decided to give everyone and everything a second chance. So yeah, I've muted you you're back in my life

01:27:49   And you can see my tweets again. It's it's been an experience for all of us, but this also goes for words

01:27:56   I I muted a lot of words which you can do in in Twitter if what?

01:28:01   Can I give us some of your words?

01:28:03   Political words political words. Yeah, lots of political. Yeah, I hate

01:28:08   Words back again. It was I can't confirm. So here's a question I have for you if I if I

01:28:16   Mute the word Trump in tweetbot. Oh, you said somebody quote tweets a tweet that says Trump in it. Do you see it?

01:28:24   I don't think you see it right you don't you don't we bought get yes, we bought yeah, right

01:28:28   So in Twitterrific, this is another problem I have of it.

01:28:30   You do.

01:28:31   So I'm seeing a lot more Trump tweets

01:28:33   and there seems to be absolutely nothing I can do about that.

01:28:36   So that's just a thing that's happening again in my life.

01:28:39   Okay, we're gonna keep going here.

01:28:41   I've only got two more things.

01:28:42   The iPad app closing gesture, which I use all the time,

01:28:45   the four finger pinch, I use that all the time.

01:28:49   Even though iOS 12 has kind of broken it a little bit,

01:28:51   but like that doesn't really matter.

01:28:52   Where now when I do that, it tends to open multitasking.

01:28:56   this is just like a weird thing that's happened with the new, but that also is fine because

01:29:02   most of the time all I ever really want is the dock. Or another app that's there anyway.

01:29:08   But pinching with the four fingers seems to accidentally trigger Twitterrific's gesture

01:29:13   for switching accounts, which is two fingers to swipe up or down. Which is annoying and

01:29:18   has been a little bit risky as I've been faving things with the wrong accounts. But I do like

01:29:25   the Twitterrific gesture, the simple gesture of being able to switch between accounts,

01:29:30   but I would like it to maybe be different or not trigger accidentally the thing that

01:29:35   I'm trying to do. I don't think many people use the gesture that I'm using though. I think

01:29:41   that that four finger pinch thing feels like a remnant that I have held onto and I don't

01:29:46   believe a lot of people use that anymore but it is muscle memory for me now. And yeah,

01:29:55   I guess the iPad landscape view could add a column, but as I said earlier, I know that's

01:30:00   something that you wanted, Federico, it's something I wanted before, but now that I

01:30:05   would use Tweetbot as one single column, I kind of don't mind about it so much, it's

01:30:09   on level footing. So there are all the things that frustrate me or I find peculiar about

01:30:14   Twitterrific compared to Tweetbot. Let me tell you what I do like. I like that they

01:30:19   They have true black on the iPhone X. It looks wonderful. I love it. It takes advantage of

01:30:25   the OLED. All black pixels love it. The overall design of the app to me today

01:30:32   feels like it has more of an opinion that I'm interested in than Tweetbot. This is good

01:30:40   and bad in some places because sometimes I don't like how different it is in some of

01:30:44   the decisions that they make. But I like the use of colors. Some of the stuff it feels

01:30:49   like it has a little bit more playfulness or joy to it. Maybe I've just gotten too used to Tweetbot,

01:30:55   but Tweetbot kind of feels a little bit devoid of personality to me now. And I kind of kept using it

01:31:02   because it had pro features that I loved and now that they've gone, I don't really feel the same

01:31:07   affinity to Tweetbot anymore. Maybe I've been using it for too long. I don't know what it is,

01:31:12   but like, from a design perspective, now that a lot of the features that I like have gone away,

01:31:18   I find myself more drawn to Twitter if it's just overall design. I don't know why and I like

01:31:24   muffling a lot for certain instances

01:31:26   I like that I can muffle someone and I don't see their tweets

01:31:30   But if I if I'm curious I can peek into them

01:31:33   But that system works really well because a lot of the time I know I'm just not seeing things because it doesn't take up a lot

01:31:39   Of screen real estate. It's an interesting system. I would like to see times occur to it

01:31:43   so

01:31:46   You'd think to yourself. Well, obviously this seems clear what he's gonna do because there were like three things that he likes and like 20 things

01:31:52   he doesn't like

01:31:53   But even though there are so many missing features or things that feel broken to me

01:31:58   I feel weirdly drawn to Twitterific right now and

01:32:01   That's what I plan to use for the foreseeable future

01:32:04   Because in this weird way the fact that I switched to Twitterific at the exact time that things started to break

01:32:11   I'm kind of less annoyed about losing the features because I have something new going on which is

01:32:16   Twitterific and getting used to that so

01:32:19   This is kind of where I am. I'm gonna stick with it for now

01:32:22   I know I am being much more forgiving at the things that I didn't like in the past

01:32:27   But I've found a new love for the app

01:32:31   So that's kind of where I am. I feel like this is a very long way to say I think an unexpected

01:32:38   decision that I've made but I'm just

01:32:40   Finding myself more drawn to Twitter effect now than tweetbot is is it just novelty though?

01:32:47   Like if if maybe you had downloaded if there were other apps that were of the same caliber

01:32:53   Like do you just be drawn to them instead? It could be it's like it doesn't really matter what they are

01:32:57   Right, like it's providing me with the basic functionality that I need and some additional features that I like

01:33:02   But in a kind of a new and shiny package

01:33:05   So but like the thing is like the things that are frustrating these are things that I've been recording over the last week

01:33:11   Most of those things like I'm over it because I'm still using them like none of those frustrations are making me go back

01:33:17   Like cuz tweetbot still works in the way that I expected to in a lot of instances

01:33:22   But I also really like a lot of things about too terrific

01:33:25   I like the way they use haptics like I like that on the Mac

01:33:28   I have a button I can press for emoji like there are a lot of I like that

01:33:32   I love the Twitterific Media Viewer, right?

01:33:35   Where you can like open a GIF and you can score your finger backwards and forwards

01:33:38   over it and it goes in reverse and fast forward.

01:33:40   Like there, it has a lot of things that are interesting.

01:33:43   Things that I always thought were interesting that drew,

01:33:46   were drawing me to the app.

01:33:47   But the things that were keeping me away from it now don't matter as much because

01:33:52   no apps have them.

01:33:53   That's fair. That makes sense.

01:33:55   So it's kind of,

01:33:58   It's kind of making me feel like it's a grass is greener situation,

01:34:02   but the playing field was more level than it was before.

01:34:05   Hmm. Well, someone who's been switching

01:34:11   between to our clients on a regular basis every few months, you know,

01:34:14   you guys know I do this every like three to four months.

01:34:17   I've always told you, I think there's a lot to like in Twitter.

01:34:20   If so, I'm happy that you're finding things to like.

01:34:24   But the iPad stuff continues to be a problem for me.

01:34:27   I've always liked the way that the icon factory, I think they tend to experiment more than

01:34:36   Tapbots when it comes to building new features into Twitterrific, like even the stuff like,

01:34:42   I think there's previews for Spotify links or you know, this time or the...

01:34:48   And they have that poll button, right?

01:34:49   Where you can tap it and it opens the Twitter app.

01:34:51   That's another great example or the fact...

01:34:53   Yeah, that's another great example or the fact that you can delete a tweet and fix a typo and

01:35:00   resend it, but it's like it's an integrated sort of like edit flow in the app.

01:35:05   It's something that's useful for me because I tend to always notice my spelling mistakes after I

01:35:11   tweet. So when you tweet, there's like a little green banner that pops up that if you tap it,

01:35:15   it just shows your posted tweet and then I can edit it. When they're editing, editing function

01:35:20   is deletes the tweet, but gives you all of the contents of the tweet anyway so you can

01:35:25   just post it again, which is an easier way than like, share sheet, copy tweet, delete,

01:35:30   and then open it up and variably get things wrong because it was meant to be in a thread

01:35:35   and it's not anymore, but that's how it was in Tweetbot for me, but Twitterific has an

01:35:39   interesting way of handling that to the best of their ability.

01:35:45   So that's where I am. I will say, obviously we're talking about Twitter, I don't want

01:35:49   to try any other social networks. I appreciate everybody who is using Mastodon and Microdot

01:35:56   blog, like that's cool, but Twitterific is where Twitter is where I want to be for the

01:36:03   community that I am a part of there. The fact that you can give me follow up and feedback

01:36:09   there en masse, like all of those things are the reasons that I'm still sticking with Twitter,

01:36:14   even though maybe the company hasn't run the way that everybody would like and that there

01:36:18   are many problems with it. A lot of the advantages I get don't exist in other places right now.

01:36:23   Is that fair to say? Do we all agree with my statement?

01:36:27   I agree with that. I also used, I think Twitter as a company is, this is going to be an overstatement,

01:36:35   but I think they're done. There's, I think there was a bridge to cross and not only have

01:36:40   they crossed the bridge, they're basically now in another country in terms of my perception

01:36:44   of the company. So the company for me is done, but it's the easiest way for people, for my

01:36:50   audience to give me feedback that is not email. It's the easiest and fastest and shortest

01:36:56   way to give him feedback. That's why I'm there to keep up with people who like what I do.

01:37:01   And if another service that has a better policies in place, but also allows me to, because I'm

01:37:09   using this for work, it's like, yes, I understand the principles and the technicalities between,

01:37:13   you know, on Mastodon are better.

01:37:16   I appreciate the people who invest in that,

01:37:18   but at the end of the day,

01:37:19   it's not my job to spend hours testing social networks.

01:37:24   My job is to write and to talk and to engage,

01:37:27   what a terrible word,

01:37:28   but to keep up with feedback from my audience.

01:37:31   And so if my audience moves to something else,

01:37:33   I will move with them.

01:37:34   If they're still here,

01:37:36   despite the terrible things that the Twitter

01:37:38   as a company does,

01:37:39   I will respond to them as long as they're here.

01:37:41   And when it's time to move, we'll move.

01:37:44   So yeah, I appreciate people who say,

01:37:46   why are you not testing Macedon?

01:37:48   I will use it when it's the time to use it,

01:37:52   but unfortunately I prefer to spend time at the beach

01:37:57   in the summer than to understand how to set up an instance.

01:38:02   And to-- - Oh no.

01:38:04   - And to-- - Don't, don't,

01:38:05   don't do it. - No, come at me.

01:38:07   I don't care.

01:38:08   I think it's too technical.

01:38:09   think you know I don't have time for this now I prefer to you know have a

01:38:15   have a spritz at the beach that's what I do you know and an aperitivo as I call

01:38:21   it in Italy at the beach better use of my time so just my two cents people will

01:38:27   be upset I don't care I love you all everything is fine so I'm back I missed

01:38:34   - We're just doing podcasts, man, it's fun.

01:38:36   It's really fun, so.

01:38:38   - See how you feel about your feedback first.

01:38:40   - Mm-hmm, yeah, whatever.

01:38:42   - Well, I think that does it.

01:38:46   I think we've made it through our topics

01:38:48   and now it's time to end the show.

01:38:50   So if you want to find links to stuff we talked about,

01:38:54   they're in your podcast app you're listening to now,

01:38:56   or you can check them out on the website,

01:38:58   relay.fm/connected/206.

01:39:02   While you're there, if you don't want to use Twitter for feedback, we have a handy email

01:39:05   link right there in the sidebar of the page that comes to me.

01:39:08   I share it with the guys and it's a good way to get in touch with us.

01:39:12   Of course you can do it on what's left of Twitter.

01:39:14   You can find Federico there as Viti, V-I-T-I-C-C-I.

01:39:18   Federico of course is the editor-in-chief of MacStories.net.

01:39:23   If you're listening to this and you're not reading MacStories, you're really missing

01:39:26   out.

01:39:27   I can't imagine there's anybody actually in that category, but if you are, you should

01:39:30   go change that.

01:39:31   You can follow Myke on Twitter, he's using Twitterific, so you can tweet at him @imyke

01:39:37   and you will show up in his unified timeline, which I know he loves.

01:39:43   Myke is the host of a bunch of shows here on Relay FM, so if you like this show and

01:39:48   you don't listen to anything else on Relay, go to relay.fm/shows and you'll find something

01:39:52   else that I think you'll love.

01:39:54   You can find me on Twitter as ismh and I write 512pixels.net.

01:39:58   I'd like to thank our sponsors this week,

01:40:01   TextExpander, Linode, and Molekule.

01:40:04   Guys, thanks for joining me.

01:40:05   I'm glad we're all back.

01:40:06   This was a lot of fun to do, the three of us.

01:40:08   And so for the first time,

01:40:10   what feels like a long time, gentlemen, say goodbye.

01:40:14   - Adios.

01:40:15   - Adios.

01:40:16   - Adios.