0:00:00(upbeat music)
0:00:02From Relay FM, this is Connected, episode 203.
0:00:12I'm your host, Steven Hackett,
0:00:13and this episode is brought to you by our fine sponsors,
0:00:16Hover, Pingdom, and Inboard Technology.
0:00:19And I am joined, drum roll please,
0:00:22by my friend and yours, Michael Hurley.
0:00:23- Federico Vitucci.
0:00:24Hi, ciao, ciao, Steven.
0:00:27It's Federico here from Italy.
0:00:29Hey buddy! Hi, I'm back. I'm back baby! And Federico isn't! There was a falling out.
0:00:36Don't say that, that's not true. Federico's computer exploded.
0:00:41You don't know all of my conversations. Yeah, so here's the thing. Federico was going to be on today's episode
0:00:46and then he was going to be away for a couple of weeks and we have some fun stuff planned for the next two weeks
0:00:51because he's taking his vacation like I have mine, but unfortunately Federico's audio interface basically
0:00:57It basically exploded two minutes before we started recording today so Federico couldn't
0:01:01make it.
0:01:02So we will soldier on.
0:01:03I am freshly caffeinated so it's going to be a good show.
0:01:06Should we just jump right into follow up?
0:01:10Let's jump right into follow up.
0:01:12We're in follow up now.
0:01:13We've jumped in.
0:01:15So we spoke about mobile Safari and this question about is it hold back the iPad because it's
0:01:24it's not like full desktop browsing capable, right?
0:01:27There are things that you can do in a desktop browser
0:01:28you can't do in mobile Safari.
0:01:30And we had a bunch of feedback around the same question,
0:01:32and I wish we had talked about it on the show,
0:01:35but Safari does have a option
0:01:39that says request desktop site.
0:01:41So if you long press on like the refresh button,
0:01:45you have two options.
0:01:45You have request desktop site
0:01:47and you have load without content blockers,
0:01:49which can also be helpful if you use a content blocker,
0:01:51maybe a page is acting up.
0:01:53But a lot of people are like, well, doesn't that get you
0:01:57kind of where you need to be?
0:01:58And it can help sometimes,
0:02:01but I think most of the things we were talking about
0:02:03and things we had in mind in that segment
0:02:06were things with like interaction.
0:02:08So like some sort of user interface on a website
0:02:13that doesn't work on mobile.
0:02:17Like, so that can be, it can kind of get you there,
0:02:22but usually not all the way.
0:02:23- So the thing is, the request desktop site
0:02:27doesn't really change.
0:02:28It actually sometimes introduces new problems
0:02:31because if sometimes I have found that if a company
0:02:35is sending you to a mobile site on an iPad,
0:02:38it typically means their desktop site
0:02:40really doesn't work on an iPad.
0:02:43Like they're sending you to the mobile site for a reason
0:02:47is typically what I found.
0:02:49Like just today I needed to,
0:02:51I was playing around with shortcuts
0:02:53and I was just setting up
0:02:55like a tell me what my calendar events thing is, right?
0:02:58And I found like a weird bug in shortcuts
0:03:00where I had a Google Calendar and an Apple Calendar,
0:03:03both with the same name.
0:03:05And the Google Calendar just looks at,
0:03:07I set it up with just some recurring events
0:03:09to add some things with Todoist.
0:03:11And it was doing this thing
0:03:14where even though I said I wanted the Apple Calendar,
0:03:17it was giving me results for both in shortcuts
0:03:19because the calendars were named exactly the same.
0:03:22Kind of weird, that's what I expected was happening.
0:03:24So I thought, okay, well I'll just go and change
0:03:26the name of the Google calendar
0:03:27'cause I never look at it or use it anyway,
0:03:28so I'll just change the name of that entry in the calendar.
0:03:31And I was trying to go to the google.com/canada website
0:03:36and I would go to get, given the mobile page,
0:03:38I hit the desktop button, it would show me,
0:03:40hey, this is new, we've changed the UI.
0:03:43And you press okay and it would take me back
0:03:44to the mobile site and I was just in this loop,
0:03:47I couldn't get out of it.
0:03:48So like I find this stuff a lot.
0:03:50Google stuff does this, Twitch's site does this,
0:03:52they send you to the mobile site.
0:03:54If you go to the desktop one, it kind of has a fixed view,
0:03:57which is kind of zoomed in and you can't scroll.
0:03:59Like this is a lot of the problems that actually get,
0:04:02new ones get introduced with the desktop site thing.
0:04:05So it typically doesn't help, honestly.
0:04:08I, you know, I enjoyed your guys' discussion on this one.
0:04:14I actually will just put my stake in the ground
0:04:17say that Apple needs to fix this, like Apple needs to find a way to solve this problem
0:04:21rather than leaving it on website creators to do.
0:04:25Like, I feel like this is something that Apple needs to fix.
0:04:28Like, however they do it, they could fix it.
0:04:30Like, you know, they could even have some weird mode where you do bring up like a little
0:04:34onscreen trackpad. It's like in the same way that they add a request desktop site button,
0:04:39which is a weird button to add anyway.
0:04:41Right. Like, that's weird when you think about it, to add that button.
0:04:45you're making like a con, you're like conceding to something by adding that button.
0:04:49So they should find some way to make it easier to use all these things when
0:04:54you're on a, when you're on an iPad. That's what I would like to see anyway.
0:04:57But that's where I, if I was going to kind of draw my line in the sand,
0:05:00I would say that Apple needs to find a way to fix this as opposed to hoping the
0:05:03rest of the internet catches up.
0:05:05Yeah, I think you're totally right. I think it's on Apple and they,
0:05:09they've got, they have a desktop browser. I just think it kills me.
0:05:14It's not like they gotta go out and build one.
0:05:16They have one.
0:05:17Just shoehorn it in there.
0:05:19And you'll be sad.
0:05:20You know, I agree with you, even though you're kinda making a joke, right?
0:05:24But obviously, no one's expecting Apple to just take the Mac OS browser and put it on
0:05:29the iPad.
0:05:31But they can go a long way to making them closer, I'm sure.
0:05:33Right.
0:05:34I mean, yeah, I'm not saying bring the whole thing over, but they've got the engine.
0:05:38They've got the renderer.
0:05:39And you would think a bunch of that's cross-platform.
0:05:43I agree, I think it's an Apple thing.
0:05:45- It won't be a problem when all the apps
0:05:48are iOS apps anyway, so it'll be fine.
0:05:50That's when they'll fix it.
0:05:51So you just got back from your own trip,
0:05:56but because you're committed to the show in a big way,
0:06:01you didn't take any time off,
0:06:02you went to Detroit, Detroit, Michigan,
0:06:05to the Henry Ford Museum
0:06:07because you're a big fancy museum boy.
0:06:10- Is that a thing?
0:06:13I'm not sure that should be a thing.
0:06:14- Yeah, yeah, yeah, you are one of them.
0:06:16- Yeah, so I spoke about it on last week's show.
0:06:18Henry Ford had a Maker Faire I went up to,
0:06:21a friend of the show, John Voorhees,
0:06:22and frequent guest of Connected Now.
0:06:24- Very frequent recently, very.
0:06:26- He's been on more than anyone, he's been on three times,
0:06:28I think that's the record.
0:06:30- I don't know, Underscore used to come on a lot
0:06:32to explain things we couldn't understand.
0:06:34- That's true.
0:06:35I have to go back in the archives and see.
0:06:39So yeah, so John came up too, so it was fun to see him.
0:06:42So we went to the Maker Faire and then I did some speaking, but the IMAX are there.
0:06:46The 13 IMAX G3s I donated were on display.
0:06:51So I did a little travel video on YouTube kind of showing the trip,
0:06:56showing the IMAX and which was a lot of fun to put together.
0:06:59And it was fun to see them. And I had a really, really good time.
0:07:03So I also met several listeners.
0:07:08Several listeners came to both the Saturday and Sunday session that I gave.
0:07:12So I didn't know you were doing two days. Did you do the same talk two times? Yes, man. You're a boss
0:07:18That's that's a difficult thing to do and there were people and both of them. It was awesome
0:07:22So if you were a listener and came up and said hey, thank you
0:07:25It was great to hang out with some people for a little while
0:07:28It was a it was a fun fun weekend Myke, but you know, I'm a homebody
0:07:32I was glad to be back back home, especially knowing that you'd be here. Yeah, I mean as you can't miss that
0:07:37But you've you've buried the lead on this though your IMAX a part of a like
0:07:42exhibit now. That's serious! It was a little surreal. I said in the
0:07:49video I came across them accidentally. Like I came in a side entrance in the
0:07:55museum. Apparently I wasn't supposed to but I did. And so I was like, "Oh, I wonder
0:07:59where they are." And I look up and there they are. Like it's like the first thing
0:08:03I see. And it's in a section about like translucency and transparency and the
0:08:09The IMAX are sort of the heart of that exhibit and all 13 were out and had my name on a placard
0:08:18which felt kind of good.
0:08:19Yeah that placard's hilarious.
0:08:21Do you have a picture of the placard anywhere that's online?
0:08:24I do.
0:08:25Yeah yeah.
0:08:26I want to put that in the notes because it's really funny to me because they list each
0:08:29Mac, right?
0:08:30They list each of them.
0:08:32And it's got your name with all of them?
0:08:33And I just wonder if they couldn't have just put a big back, you know like, Stephen Agate
0:08:38gave us these and then just a list. It's really funny to me that you're the only
0:08:42person on that entire card and you're listed like multiple times. I find
0:08:47it kind of hilarious. I love it. Yeah I guess because I think in the paperwork
0:08:52they're listed as like 13 like in their individual donations and so I guess
0:08:56that's how they because each one has like its own tracking number in their
0:08:59system so my guess is... And you would want to list them individually in case you
0:09:04need one of them for something right? Right. You wouldn't want to list them as
0:09:08one individual exhibit, right? If you just want the blue one, whatever, right? You just
0:09:13want the original. So, but yeah, it is, it's very good. I'm very proud of you because
0:09:18this is a very weird and incredible thing to have something that you've done be put
0:09:24in a museum. Like I know you didn't make them, but like you contributed to this permanent
0:09:31part of the Henry Ford Museum, which is no joke. But the funny thing is, this started
0:09:37it as a dumb joke. Like that's what I love most about this. There was a dumb joke which
0:09:42it expanded into a serious project which is now a part of a museum. And I kind of love
0:09:47that. It was like, oh, I have this funny idea for a video where I would eventually have
0:09:52all these IMAX or however it started. I don't even know how it started, but it was just
0:09:56like a silly idea. And now, like now look where it's gone to. I think that's just kind
0:10:02of incredible.
0:10:03yeah I put up a blog post I'm trying to find it where I was like oh yeah I would
0:10:09be cool to like collect all 13 I posted like on a Saturday and then they just
0:10:13started pouring in and and then they were all here and then I had to I couldn't
0:10:18keep them all but it started as the thing is I'm just gonna see if I could
0:10:22do this right and like it's a really fitting end I couldn't be happier with
0:10:28the way this project ended like it there is no greater ending there there is no
0:10:33- There's no ending that is better than this.
0:10:35Like, this is it.
0:10:36- And they're together, which was important to me.
0:10:38- You want your children to live together.
0:10:40You don't want them to get split up.
0:10:42- Yeah, I wanted them to be able to grow together.
0:10:44- Yeah.
0:10:45(laughing)
0:10:47- So yeah, so it was really cool.
0:10:51- Well, I'm very proud of you.
0:10:53- Thank you.
0:10:54- What is-- - Well, what's next?
0:10:57- I see some more Mac stuff here,
0:10:59and I guess there's nothing we can do about it now.
0:11:02it's the summer and that means that Mac stuff's happening I guess.
0:11:06I took over upgrade and did a Mac, a whole Mac episode with Jason.
0:11:10Rectified that very quickly. Yeah, I saw that.
0:11:13This is, I want to talk about Spekt, it is a
0:11:17new Mac app from Steven Frank
0:11:20and I brought it up because we've talked a lot about
0:11:24file management and photo management over the years and like using photos or
0:11:28like all of us used to do more of this of keeping everything
0:11:32in Dropbox and using Finder to navigate our photos.
0:11:37And there are a couple different apps on the Mac,
0:11:42one's called Loop, Specked is a new one
0:11:44that basically look at those folders
0:11:46and give you a nice interface to manage them.
0:11:47And this is, from the ones I've seen and used,
0:11:50the nicest one.
0:11:51So if you are still using Dropbox or just Finder
0:11:55or something to manage your photos
0:11:57and not using iCloud Photo Library, Google Photos,
0:12:00this I think would be a nice tool
0:12:01have at your disposal to help organize and manage things. And also it is, you
0:12:08know, I'm not trying to throw shade, it's kind of noteworthy to see a new Mac app.
0:12:12Like that this is just like a thing now or it's like you see a new Mac app it's
0:12:16like oh it's a new Mac app. Like that doesn't happen very much anymore. Like
0:12:20even even small utilities or at least they don't necessarily break out or
0:12:24they're not newsworthy in any way but this is made by someone who has a great
0:12:29pedigree right so yeah and it's an interesting little thing it's a very
0:12:33Mackie looking app like it's very simple and it's but I think that's by design so
0:12:39yeah as pastor boy in the chat room is knowing we probably shouldn't have
0:12:43spoken about it because it's photo management related and it unfortunately
0:12:46means that he's gonna have to shut that app down sorry Steven sorry sorry
0:12:50Steven sorry we're big fans of your work we're sorry we had to do this to you
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0:15:35So there are a bunch of rumors, Myke, about upcoming iPad Pros.
0:15:40We have one saying that the 2018 models may drop the headphone jack because of courage,
0:15:47And another one about smart connectors and face ID, but let's start with the headphone
0:15:51jack thing.
0:15:52So they dropped it on the iPhone 7.
0:15:55Some people like the Verge are still very, very personally upset about it.
0:16:00I think the rest of us have more or less moved on.
0:16:03It's annoying sometimes, but not very often.
0:16:06But the iPad feels like a different thing.
0:16:08The phone, I could kind of see why they had to do it.
0:16:10You see iFixit take the thing apart.
0:16:12It's like, "Okay, I can see why you need the space."
0:16:14But the iPad is massive.
0:16:16There's not room in there for a little headphone jack.
0:16:19What's going on here?
0:16:20I mean, I am still personally annoyed about the removal of the headphone jack on the iPhone.
0:16:24I'm not joking.
0:16:25Like, this isn't the point where, like, every time they release a new device, I'm not like,
0:16:29"Where's the headphone jack?"
0:16:31But I've just never been personally happy, content with the reason.
0:16:36Like, I don't think we ever...
0:16:38Apple never gave a reason, right?
0:16:40They were just like, "We've removed it because we're courageous."
0:16:43I know that's a meme, but that was like the reason.
0:16:46And people have claimed, every time I bring this up, and there's going to be people that
0:16:49are going to do it right now, people tell me it was to help with waterproofing, or they
0:16:53tell me it was to add a taptic motor.
0:16:56Nobody can prove any of those things, in my opinion.
0:16:59They removed the headphone jack because it was just something that they wanted to do
0:17:02for whatever reason.
0:17:03But the reason, honestly, I stand by my original reason for this is they needed it gone from
0:17:10the 10 because they were constrained with what they wanted to put in the 10
0:17:14so they just removed it on the 7 because the 10 is the one they wanted to sell
0:17:18they didn't want the 10 to be bogged down in the story of they removed the
0:17:23headphone jack so they got rid of it on the 7 so that they had a runway leading
0:17:26up to the 10 that's what I stand by that reason I 100% believe that's why they
0:17:31did it I understand why they did that but it still annoys me anyway let's
0:17:37Let's assume that the reasons that people give waterproofing or more space inside of
0:17:41the device are true.
0:17:42Right?
0:17:43Let's just assume that.
0:17:44These are two things the iPad Pro doesn't need waterproofing or more space inside of
0:17:48the case.
0:17:49You don't want to use your iPad Pro in the tub safely?
0:17:51I mean, I would love it, but it doesn't need it.
0:17:54Right?
0:17:55Like it just doesn't.
0:17:56You do not need to waterproof your iPad.
0:17:58Like we're good.
0:17:59Like we're fine.
0:18:00It's not a thing.
0:18:01And we've sidestepped the conversation that there are plenty of products on the market
0:18:05with headphone jacks that are water resistant.
0:18:06I'm just gonna say something about that.
0:18:08- Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
0:18:09I mean, that was rubbish, right?
0:18:10Samsung, there are Android phones released every day
0:18:13that have headphone jacks that are waterproof
0:18:15and Samsung were doing it before the iPhone 7 anyway.
0:18:17So they had a great ad.
0:18:19I really liked their ad.
0:18:20They had a rapper pour champagne on the phone.
0:18:22It was really funny.
0:18:22I enjoyed that ad.
0:18:23It was one of Samsung's better ads.
0:18:25So if they do do this,
0:18:28I am very keen to see what their reason is
0:18:31and I expect the reason to just be bull.
0:18:36Like I don't honestly, I don't even think there'll be a reason.
0:18:39I think now they will tell the original reason for the seven of we live in a
0:18:43wireless world. Like that's what I think the reason will be. Um,
0:18:46and the reason that this will annoy me is it's because coming later on in the
0:18:51year or next year, they have a bunch of other Bluetooth headphones.
0:18:54They want to sell me and all right. Like it's a strategy thing,
0:18:59but I think it's a mistake.
0:19:00I think it's more of a mistake than the phone because I genuinely believe like
0:19:04iPads and over the ear headphones in traveling circumstances is a huge use of this device and
0:19:11Mm-hmm. I think it's I will be personally really annoyed about it
0:19:15Like if this probably more than the iPhone because I just don't think
0:19:20That the iPad is really hurting for that space back
0:19:25Like and and if they are designing a product where they're that tight I may say like just think about it like
0:19:33Think about it. Like do you need to but anyway, this is all a rumor. I just want to say I think it's silly
0:19:38I think that there are a lot of use cases for the iPad that will be a real shame
0:19:42like a lot of musicians and DJs and stuff like that use this device and
0:19:48It would I think it would kind of suck if that stuff was taken away
0:19:52I know that you'd mentioned to me so we're talking about this beforehand
0:19:56That payment companies you get those like the square readers and stuff like and that's the thing is that exists
0:20:01but a lot of those are being replaced now for Bluetooth devices because of the chip
0:20:05technology.
0:20:06Yeah, that's fading away.
0:20:07It would annoy me, as you can clearly tell, I may be able to be in my bonnet about this
0:20:12one, but I think that it would kind of be unnecessary.
0:20:16And if they remove it from the iPad, then it's going from the Mac.
0:20:19Right?
0:20:20And if it doesn't, then again, we'll ask questions.
0:20:22Why is it still on the Mac?
0:20:24But hey ho.
0:20:25Yeah, I mean, the Mac definitely feels too far.
0:20:29For all the professional audio reasons and stuff,
0:20:32it may be still important on the iPad.
0:20:35The Mac has all of those and a lot more.
0:20:37The thing that came to mind for me,
0:20:39'cause I've been traveling a lot,
0:20:40is that I very often will use wired headphones
0:20:44on a plane with an iPad.
0:20:45In fact, I was doing that when we were getting
0:20:47these show notes together.
0:20:48Not because, I mean, yes, they sound better
0:20:51on a plane and stuff, but if I'm on a long flight,
0:20:54I just don't wanna drain my AirPods
0:20:57and then they'd be dead when I get where I'm going
0:21:00or like lose one on an airplane
0:21:02and then they're gone forever.
0:21:04Which is very easy to do. - My AirPods don't last
0:21:05the trips that I take, right, they don't.
0:21:08I have to do this thing at some point
0:21:09where I take one out and charge it
0:21:11and then put it back in again
0:21:13and then take the other one out and charge it
0:21:14and then put them both back in again.
0:21:16And like, that's not ideal, right?
0:21:19Like if I'm listening to something on my iPhone or whatever,
0:21:21listening to a podcast, it's not an ideal situation.
0:21:23Like they don't last a full plane journey for me,
0:21:26So it would be very frustrating to to to have that because then it's like one,
0:21:31you know, I could at least have the headphones that I purchased be used
0:21:35in other places using my iPad.
0:21:36And it's like, well, now I've just wasted these headphones because now I can't plug
0:21:39them into anything because the dongle life is dumb.
0:21:43Right. Like it's it's not a great solution.
0:21:45Plugging it into the lightning port because then I can't charge it.
0:21:48And remember, I'm on a plane.
0:21:49So sometimes I need to anyway.
0:21:51So, yes, we're in the weeds on this one.
0:21:53But you can clearly see it would frustrate me.
0:21:55What if they replace the headphone jack with like your three lightning port so you had
0:21:59one for charging one for pencil charging and then one for your adapter that's that's all
0:22:04the problem make one of those USB C and then maybe we can talk.
0:22:11There's also a lot of talk about the smart connector.
0:22:15And this kind of goes like in conjunction with the face ID camera.
0:22:19Yeah, we're talking about like iPad orientation, right.
0:22:22So despite the printing and the Apple logo on the back, I think most people, especially
0:22:29if you have an iPad Pro, use iPads in landscape most of the time.
0:22:33We all rotate them occasionally, but if you have it in a keyboard case, it's going to
0:22:39be in landscape mode.
0:22:41The Apple logo is on the side and then the headphone cable has got to fall across the
0:22:46screen.
0:22:47It's a little strange.
0:22:48multitasking system is built around an iPad being used in landscape because it's just not that nice to use in portrait, right?
0:22:54Because you don't have to screen size. Like if you use apps, if you either use a keyboard or you use multitasking
0:23:02you use your iPad in landscape
0:23:04probably most of the time and if you do either of those two things you own an iPad Pro
0:23:11You know what?
0:23:12Like, you know
0:23:13I feel like if you're spending a lot of time doing either of those two things on your iPad,
0:23:18you're probably using an iPad Pro.
0:23:22So the idea is that moving the smart connector somehow means that they're making it a portrait
0:23:27device and people are drawing a line to Face ID.
0:23:30That's kind of where this is all going.
0:23:32But I think we need to uncouple these a little bit first.
0:23:36So let's park the smart connector discussion and now talk about Face ID.
0:23:40So people were saying, "Oh, they've moved the smart connector to the bottom because
0:23:43now the iPad is a portrait device because the Face ID sensor doesn't work in landscape."
0:23:48Right?
0:23:49This is the argument that's being put forward here, I think, by a lot of people who have
0:23:53seen the rumors from Makotaku, right, who said that the smart connector was moving to
0:23:58the bottom based upon supply chain discussions, as well as other things, which we'll get
0:24:02to.
0:24:03So I'm just going to say I really don't think this is the case.
0:24:08I do not believe that Apple would ship an iPad Pro with Face ID but it only worked in
0:24:14portrait.
0:24:15Personally, I don't think they're going to ship an iPad Pro with Face ID that only works
0:24:21in one orientation anyway, if it's portrait or landscape.
0:24:25I don't think that's what they're going to do.
0:24:27I think that if that was the case, they just wouldn't put it in.
0:24:31That's how I feel.
0:24:32You just don't do it until you can do it in multiple orientations.
0:24:36And I've seen, I mean I've spoken about this I think on upgrade a few weeks ago and Federico
0:24:43brought it up for today's show as well, that there was a developer session during WWDC
0:24:49about the face detector API in iOS 12 supporting multiple faces, so this is how it gets that
0:24:56multiple looks right in iOS 12 on the iPhone 10.
0:25:00You get like what are they called, alternate look or something like that where you can
0:25:04set like a second version of your own face apparently like it says as in face ID but
0:25:12it also supports multiple orientations and they've shown some pictures of the face detector
0:25:18API being what they call orientation agnostic and it can detect faces in multiple orientations.
0:25:25Now I do have a question which I haven't been able to get an answer for is is this the same
0:25:31technology that's utilized in Face ID. I'm expecting probably, right, because it is machine
0:25:37learning. It's all machine learning. And Face ID, there isn't a problem with the sensors
0:25:44that can only read it in one orientation. It is what the machine learning algorithm
0:25:49is able to extract, right? Like that's my understanding. It's like, it just provides
0:25:54this information and then the system says, yes, it's a face, but it only works in portrait
0:25:58right now. Well, the face detector API has changed and it now recognizes in multiple
0:26:04orientations. So in theory, this should say that we will be able to get this in the future.
0:26:12But then I ask a question of why isn't this in iOS 12 on the iPhone? Because that hasn't
0:26:19changed. So I don't know. I don't have an answer to that.
0:26:22Yeah, I mean maybe it is one of those features that it shows up in iOS 12 on the phone with
0:26:29the iPads.
0:26:30Well, it could be in iOS 12.1, right?
0:26:32Because the iPads might ship in November or something like that.
0:26:34Yeah, you never know.
0:26:35I don't know enough to say for sure this is the same thing.
0:26:38I mean, on the surface of it, it looks like it would be.
0:26:41And it would be kind of an app-ly thing to do, but like, oh, like, you know, the new
0:26:46iPad support just, but if you have an iPhone 10, it does it too, you know, like bringing
0:26:50that back to... Oh, it could be an iPhone 11 feature, right? Yeah, that's a good point.
0:26:58It could be that there's like a, not maybe not even a fully second generation Face ID
0:27:02platform, but like a, you know, Face ID 1.5, you know, just a little tweak to the hardware
0:27:08that makes this possible. Yeah. And it's only on the new phones and iPads. Maybe. I mean,
0:27:12I don't know how all this stuff works, but it might require some additional processing
0:27:16power to be able to do it? I don't know. Like maybe some new version of metal that only
0:27:20runs on the 12X or something. We don't know, right? But there could be a technical reason
0:27:26for it. But I hadn't thought of that. Like, yeah, it might just ship on the new phone.
0:27:30It's like that is a feature of the new phone. Would be a weird feature to have, right? Because
0:27:35it's kind of pointing a floor in your system. But hey, I'm sure they could do it in some
0:27:39other way, which could be interesting.
0:27:42So let's go back to the smart connector.
0:27:47So I really find it hard to believe that Apple is going to make a smart keyboard for portrait
0:27:56orientation.
0:27:57Oh yeah.
0:27:58Right?
0:27:59So let's assume there's a couple of different things that could be going on here, right?
0:28:04That it could be a second connector for other accessories is one potential option, right?
0:28:12There could be a, and there was this thing on 9to5Mac of this CAD system and it's like,
0:28:17well, it actually doesn't really look like the smart connector as we know it.
0:28:20It actually is like this weird cut out and it's on the back.
0:28:23So let's say, let's say it's on the back, but in portrait orientation, what if the new
0:28:28smart keyboard is actually a case and it, or there's like this plate that goes on the
0:28:34back of it and it allows for an adjustable angle now.
0:28:38like it might have some kind of like, I don't know, like a hinge or something and then the
0:28:43connector just goes fixed on the back of it or there could just be a second smart connector.
0:28:50There could be many different things but like I really doubt that Apple are going to ship
0:28:55a portrait orientation keyboard and/or they won't ship a keyboard with the iPad Pro. Like
0:29:00I don't see any of these things happening which just tells me that there's a couple
0:29:05different things going on here. One, this is all wrong. Or two, it's partly correct,
0:29:11the other part of it's being completely missed off. Which is typically what happens, right?
0:29:14It's like we get this stuff on the face of it and we're like, well, logically,
0:29:19with the information that we have been provided, it would seem this. But then when they show it
0:29:26off, it's like, oh, right, we didn't see that part because we didn't have that information
0:29:31because nobody really knows what's going on.
0:29:33Yeah, I mean this render is all based on is like really generic. And I mean, you can make a case
0:29:40that that's not a smart connector. That's a touch ID sensor. I mean, who like, it's, it's not that,
0:29:46but it's, it's a very vague artwork. And so I don't know how much we could draw from it. But
0:29:51I agree with you portrait keyboard would be weird. They did that initially. And it was super strange.
0:29:56And I tend to think that if this is a smart connector,
0:30:00it's either a second one, and they have some sort
0:30:02of new accessory coming, or it is to make something
0:30:07like the smart keyboard, like you said, adjustable
0:30:10or more useful somehow, not a radical change in direction.
0:30:14- Yeah, or maybe this other thing on the back
0:30:18isn't even a smart connector.
0:30:20Like it's something completely new, right?
0:30:22Like it is a new thing that they have for this device,
0:30:25which we don't know about yet in the same way that we didn't know what the smart
0:30:28connector was when it was rumored, right?
0:30:31Like what is this thing that's on the bottom?
0:30:33Nobody knows what it was for, right?
0:30:35Right. Like who knows what it could be.
0:30:37But I'm.
0:30:38Irrespective of all of this, because I have my own beliefs about what they're
0:30:43going to do, right? Seeing all of this stuff, though, makes me excited because it
0:30:47seems like there's going to be some really big hardware changes.
0:30:50Like I'm sure that it's going to be some big changes, but I personally, my belief
0:30:54on it and I'd be super surprised if I'm wrong, is that Face ID will work in
0:30:57landscape and I will still have a keyboard in landscape, right? And whatever
0:31:01it takes to get me to those points is like whatever it is, but I'm just super
0:31:05excited to see that they're not even just bringing the the bezels thinner on
0:31:11these iPads, like they're doing a bunch of other stuff as well which makes me
0:31:15excited, right? Because these are the devices that I use every day that I love
0:31:19that are my computers. So I'm super excited about it. And about the screens.
0:31:24So the rumor, all of the stuff that went with this rumor, I mean because
0:31:29obviously it's gonna be no home button, we know that right? Like we know that
0:31:33there's gonna be a notch. Like we can see all that stuff in iOS now, like you can
0:31:37see in iOS 12 what is on the iPad, you can see the changes. But the rumors also
0:31:42indicate that both devices are gonna get larger screens but will be physically
0:31:48smaller. That is exciting to me. Like, I think that's really great. I mean, maybe
0:31:55that's why they say they get rid of the headphone jack, right? Because this
0:31:57device is smaller. It's like, oh, we accidentally cut the headphone jack off.
0:32:01You know, like, it got sanded down.
0:32:04Yeah, what are we gonna do?
0:32:05It's still in there. They're just the port got sanded off. Such a shame. I still
0:32:10won't still won't buy that. But I that makes me excited to write bigger screen,
0:32:15smaller devices like yeah I love the sound of that that's everything I want
0:32:19so do I and depending on where that ended up I think I could be swayed back
0:32:26to the bigger iPad I'm using the 10.5 right now but who knows now what will
0:32:31happen is you'll buy the big one and you'll use it for two months you'll sell
0:32:35it buy the small one that's pretty much what will happen or you'll buy the small
0:32:40one you'll sell the small one and buy the big one then you'll sell the big one
0:32:43and buy the small one. And then go back to the Newton. How's your second MacBook Pro
0:32:47doing, by the way? It's great. Right, okay, good news. Maybe we'll talk about that in
0:32:52a bit. Should we take a break? Let's take a break, Myke. I'm very excited about this
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0:34:26Alright, so I am out in front of my house, gonna retake my inboard, out for a spin.
0:34:36I was not really a skateboarder before this, but the inboard gives you all the confidence
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0:35:56for their support of this show and Relay FM. How you doing, you feeling good?
0:36:00A little sweaty now, but pretty good.
0:36:03Pretty good.
0:36:04Ah man, I have one of these things sitting right here next to me.
0:36:06It just arrived.
0:36:07I'm so excited to try it out.
0:36:09Very excited.
0:36:10All right, so Apple results.
0:36:13I mean, I want to touch on this because I feel like we have to touch on this, right?
0:36:17Because it's a big thing, but it's never massively exciting, but I want to run through the numbers
0:36:23just so people can hear the numbers in case they've missed it.
0:36:26I feel like it is our duty to report on it.
0:36:28And then there's a couple of areas that I wanted to touch on a little bit with you to
0:36:31get your opinion. So here are the headlines. You ready?
0:36:35I am ready.
0:36:36$53.3 billion in revenue up from $45.4 billion year on year. $11.5 billion in profit up from
0:36:45$8.7 billion. $41.3 million iPhone sold up from $41.0 million the year before. $11.6
0:36:56million iPad sold just up from 11.4 million, 3.7 million Mac sold down from 4.3 million,
0:37:05the only thing that's down in this list, $9.55 billion in services revenue up from 7.27 billion.
0:37:15So basically everything is up except Macs, which is down and that's year on year, not
0:37:22from previous quarters. We'll get to the Mac stuff.
0:37:25thing to touch on iPhone it's the only the only thing that's really important
0:37:29honestly in the earnings report so it's a couple of things here so that is not a
0:37:36decline it is an increase but a small increase it's like a very minuscule
0:37:42increase really right like 0.3 million units sold so the sales didn't go down
0:37:49but they are mostly flat but that goes against a lot of the reports that the
0:37:53iPhone X is dead. Where it gets even more interesting is that revenue went up 20%
0:38:02year on year. So not only is the iPhone X selling, it's also selling
0:38:09greater than the other phones. ASP is up, so the average selling price is up year on year.
0:38:15So it shows that people are buying the most expensive phone, even though maybe Apple isn't
0:38:21doing gangbusters on the amount that they're selling, they're still saying an
0:38:25incredible amount of phones and people are buying the more expensive ones.
0:38:29Right, and in a world where Apple may be reaching or being near to reaching market
0:38:35saturation with their phone, the way you have growth is that average selling
0:38:41price moving up. And it's so interesting, I feel like every quarter since the
0:38:44iPhone X has been out, right before the release some analyst says "oh hey the 8
0:38:50has knocked the 10 off the top. They're selling more 8's than anything else and
0:38:54we saw that last quarter, we saw this quarter and Apple really takes that head
0:39:00on and says no the iPhone 10 is the best-selling iPhone and the fact has
0:39:04been the best-selling iPhone ever since we launched it. And I think that says a
0:39:10couple things. I think one some of us, I'll count myself in this, were a little
0:39:13nervous that the price was gonna drive some people away and it turns out that
0:39:18that does not seem to be the case. It seems to be that either the iPhone X
0:39:21because it has a new design or new technology, something about it makes
0:39:25people willing to pay. It's a really good looking phone. It is really good looking and if you
0:39:30look, I actually just saw a friend's 8 last night and handled it for a second.
0:39:35It's like this feels old, like it feels like a 6. The 8 is a great phone and
0:39:40that's the phone I tell most people to buy and people ask me for advice.
0:39:43but it's that old body style. It's the last of its kind, more than likely,
0:39:49and it shows a little bit. And so I think people are drawn to the X. What would be
0:39:53interesting for me to see, say that the iPhone X and X Plus, you know, whatever
0:40:01the next ones are, right, if they retain this price point, will the ASP hold
0:40:08steady? Will it go up if the Plus is even more? Like, where is the ceiling? Have
0:40:13Have they met the ceiling except that the new design is so exciting people are willing
0:40:16to spend a little bit more one time?
0:40:18Is this the new normal?
0:40:19That will be something to look at in the future.
0:40:22What that average selling price does, once these old world phones, you know with home
0:40:28buttons and chins and foreheads, once those kind of phase out of the line, do we go back
0:40:35to a world where the ASP is lower?
0:40:38Can Apple continue to charge these premiums if all the phones look like this?
0:40:42questions right because what's so interesting about this phone cycle is
0:40:44that they've broken every single pattern that they had. There was not a 7s there
0:40:52was an 8. It's the first time they've had two kind of two flagships right that
0:40:57they had three new phones in total the 8 the 8 plus and the 10. This is new
0:41:01territory and if rumors are to believed this year is going to be just as nutty
0:41:07with different things coming in at different sizes and price points so I'm
0:41:11I'm curious to see how this holds up and if anything can really hurt Apple financially
0:41:19like from a stock perspective it'll be this iPhone ASP sliding back down.
0:41:24So here's the thing, I agree with you right, proof is in the next revisions right like
0:41:30what happens with the new phones.
0:41:32Now the rumors suggest all new phones right like all new look, all new phones right which
0:41:38is exciting.
0:41:39Yeah.
0:41:40I think Apple are very confident because their guidance is $60-62 billion for the next quarter.
0:41:47So the beginning of the iPhone quarter.
0:41:49It's not their biggest quarter of the year, right?
0:41:51That's Q1.
0:41:52Well, that depends too when the iPhone goes on sale.
0:41:54There are times where the iPhone is basically the last week of the quarter so it doesn't
0:41:58make necessarily a big impact.
0:42:00It must be making a difference because they're expecting a very big jump.
0:42:06They're expecting a basically $10 billion jump year on year.
0:42:09It's all new Macs, I got new Macs coming man.
0:42:12I have a good point that I'm trying to make here.
0:42:14I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
0:42:15They're expect-- so year on year for Q4 2017 to Q4 2016,
0:42:24so when the iPhone debuted, well, kind of,
0:42:27the new iPhones went on sale, let's say,
0:42:29because I don't think the 10 was involved in that one.
0:42:31It was a $6 billion year on year increase that they did.
0:42:36Their guidance is $10 billion, potentially,
0:42:39And Apple always comes under their guidance,
0:42:41or at least has a very good history of that.
0:42:42So they're, I mean, so we can expect, I don't know,
0:42:45like an 11, 12 billion dollar increase year on year.
0:42:49- They think something is gonna be a big deal this fall.
0:42:51- They're very confident in the iPhone.
0:42:53So I mean, 'cause it has to be the iPhone,
0:42:54so nothing else can generate that sort of money.
0:42:56- Air power.
0:42:57(laughing)
0:42:59- No, I mean, we're so one to every single person
0:43:01who has an iPhone. - On the planet.
0:43:02- That's a lot of money.
0:43:04So, whilst I appreciate the jokes,
0:43:07That was the point now wanted to make like, you know, it's a really good point Myke and and you're right
0:43:12Apple is conservative when they give that guidance because when companies lose value it's when they miss their guidance and
0:43:19Apple plays that a little safely. Yeah, I think we can expect all the phones will go on sale in September this time around
0:43:25They're not gonna wait for I think so one
0:43:27I don't think they ever wanted to wait until November for the time. It just took longer than it than they had so
0:43:33That's that's kind of where I think that like big things are gonna happen and and yes
0:43:37I agree if the ASP changes it would be a shame for them
0:43:40But I think they're gonna do so much money and so many units sold
0:43:43That that will be forgotten about even if it goes down right like I think that they will they will absolutely knock it out of
0:43:50the park with
0:43:51the the raw numbers
0:43:53So that's the the iPhone 10 was a success, right?
0:43:57Apple weren't lying when they were telling I calls that it was like the best-selling phone
0:44:02It's so interesting to me, like, especially Bloomberg, they publish these articles like
0:44:07an hour before that is their guidance.
0:44:10And recently it's been like really wrong every time.
0:44:16And I think that they need to spend some time thinking about that.
0:44:19Like, do they really want those page views an hour before or a day before or whatever
0:44:23about the iPhone X is dying?
0:44:25Well the game is, if you're right, you're a genius and if you're wrong, it gets buried
0:44:29in the other news.
0:44:30It is always funny to me, I follow a couple of industry analysts on Twitter, not too many
0:44:33because I can't take too much of it, but a couple. And it's funny to me when they're
0:44:37like, "Apple said it was this billion. My estimate was this." And it's like, "Are you
0:44:41just trying to show how smart you are? I don't understand." It's okay. You don't have to
0:44:46tell me. It's fine. I can look it up if I need to. But they're like six different tweets
0:44:52of every different line and it's like, "I was $100,000 off. I guess that's important.
0:44:58I guess that's what people pay them to do.
0:45:00But as someone who's not in that world, it always seems funny to me.
0:45:03It's like, look how smart I am.
0:45:05But I guess that's their job, to show how smart they are?
0:45:08I don't know.
0:45:09It's a job.
0:45:10It's a strange thing.
0:45:11We should try that in the analyst stuff.
0:45:13I guess we do it, but not with numbers, right?
0:45:15No.
0:45:16And I want to talk about a point Jason made in his article about that in a second.
0:45:19But we're pretty product focused.
0:45:23Let's talk about the iPad for a second.
0:45:24I think there's some interesting stuff here.
0:45:26revenue and units if you look at the quarter averages are stable like yep it
0:45:33seems like the iPad is out of its dive and has landed at 4.9 billion dollars a
0:45:40quarter you know 11 billion units looking at four quarter averages the ASP
0:45:45though is down and I think that's a I guess a pretty easy thing to explain
0:45:49this time is that that $329 iPad they sold a bunch of them this quarter
0:45:55probably the early part of the quarter to schools.
0:45:58And now just like to regular consumers
0:46:00and the iPad Pro is now over a year old
0:46:03and I expect the ASP on the iPad
0:46:05is very tied to new models.
0:46:08Maybe more so, well, maybe even more so
0:46:12than other parts of Apple's business
0:46:14because I think, I don't know,
0:46:16like something about the iPad,
0:46:17people don't upgrade as often,
0:46:18so it's like they wait until something new
0:46:20and you see these spikes, but--
0:46:22Plus in the category, the price delta is huge.
0:46:26- Yeah.
0:46:27- Right, it's like the pros are like two to three times
0:46:30more expensive than the models below.
0:46:33- And you have that in the Mac,
0:46:34but the Mac's a much smaller business.
0:46:36- Yeah.
0:46:37- So it's not as noticeable.
0:46:38- So I wanna compare this with the Mac
0:46:41because the iPad has stability
0:46:44and it's been stable for about a year,
0:46:45which, and if you look at the last year,
0:46:48I think what we're seeing now is Apple has finally found
0:46:52the stability in the iPad line because the pros were doing really great and then they
0:46:58weren't going to have pros come out in June so they released the cheaper iPad for schools
0:47:04and etc which has kept the iPad line stable.
0:47:08So if they keep following it along this route the iPad line remains stable.
0:47:13The Mac is down probably because there were no new Macs in June but that shows that that
0:47:17That line, that market, that part of their business, they haven't got the stability in.
0:47:24Because if the 329 iPad didn't come out when it did, then the iPad line would be down because
0:47:30they didn't have any new pros.
0:47:32So the stability in the line is coming from having a good strategy.
0:47:36And I think, just even looking at the face of it right now, I can't imagine many people
0:47:39would disagree with me, hardware strategy-wise right now, the iPad is stronger than the Mac.
0:47:45Like where Apple is kind of putting their, like with what they're releasing, the strategy
0:47:51seems, like people in the iPad users are not going crazy right now because of X going wrong
0:47:57in the hardware, right?
0:47:58Like, maybe that happens in September, depending on where the smart connector goes, but like
0:48:03just kind of like a hardware strategy perspective, what's being released is making people happy
0:48:08and it's coming at the right time.
0:48:10And that is not happening for the Mac, right?
0:48:13Like the MacBook Pros were met with a bunch of problems again.
0:48:17What the heck is happening with the MacBook Air?
0:48:19What is happening with the MacBook?
0:48:21Why is it still the same?
0:48:22Why is it still so expensive?
0:48:24Where is the Mac Mini?
0:48:25Where's the Mac Pro?
0:48:26Like okay, where's the new 5K iMac?
0:48:29All of this stuff doesn't seem to be on any kind of stable flow, where the iPad, even
0:48:36Even though we only have like two years of this happening, seems to be on a stable flow.
0:48:44So I think there are a couple things to unpack here.
0:48:46I think the distinction you've drawn between the iPad and Mac release cycles is an important
0:48:51one, where the iPad now is a sort of a TikTok release where you have consumer and then you
0:48:56have professional and then you have consumer and the demand swings based on age but then
0:49:04the other product is there to pick up the slack. I think is what you're
0:49:07saying. I think that makes a lot of sense for the iPad. I think it explains what
0:49:11we're seeing. The Mac on the other hand has never really had that sort of
0:49:16cadence to its release and maybe they should look at that because it's working
0:49:19for the iPad. But I think there's really two things that have impacted the Mac.
0:49:24Like you said, nothing new in June. The new MacBook Pros were I believe out of
0:49:28this quarter or at the very very end of it. I think they were out of the
0:49:32quarter so we're not seeing these new MacBook Pros. This quarter ended in June.
0:49:36Okay yeah so we didn't see those those numbers in this report. The lack of
0:49:44updates, forget WWBC, but like the lack of updates to the Mac line in general
0:49:50clearly are taking a toll where you have people who would spend money on
0:49:56something like I'm one of them, Federico's one of them, I'm ready to buy a
0:50:00new Mac Mini. Federico's ready to buy a Mac Mini and there's not a product for
0:50:05us. I think there are people who are probably holding off on maybe something
0:50:11like an iMac or even a MacBook Pro waiting for that June update didn't
0:50:15happen. I don't know where the iMac 5k is. They they basically internally are
0:50:19MacBook Pros. Like I don't know why those two devices aren't at least at the same
0:50:24time. They were last year. They have been for several years. Something is going on
0:50:28there and then of course you have I think what the biggest problem is is the
0:50:33the consumer notebook and lots of people been talking about this I don't want to retread
0:50:37all of it but with enough you walk in a store and you buy an iPad I don't my
0:50:43guess is my feeling is you probably know which iPad you're gonna buy before you
0:50:48walk in yeah I don't think you're being met with a lot of surprise no or if you
0:50:52walk in and talk to a sales associate for five minutes you have two very clear
0:50:56paths and you go down one. You do not have that in the Mac line right now.
0:51:01Forget the desktops because the vast majority of Macs sold are notebooks.
0:51:05Like just table the iMac, Mac mini, iMac Pro, Mac Pro. Just get rid of them. Just in
0:51:11notebooks, if you walk in with $1,400 in your pocket to buy an Apple notebook, you
0:51:18have a bunch of choices and none of them are very compelling. You have the MacBook
0:51:23Air which has all the ports you want but is older, doesn't have a retina
0:51:28screen, but it's cheap, it has incredible battery life, and I still think the
0:51:34MacBook Air has an amazing reputation among consumers. I can't tell you how many
0:51:39times people email me or in real life, you know, looking to buy a notebook and
0:51:44the question is usually "Frey, should I just buy another MacBook Air?" and I think
0:51:49that how has real value to people but the technology is not very good now.
0:51:53Then you've got the one port MacBook to your point is too expensive for what it is.
0:51:59Most people I would think would maybe struggle with having a single port or they don't want
0:52:04to buy an adapter or they just want something bigger the 12 inch screen just isn't big enough
0:52:08for them let alone power.
0:52:10I think that choosing between the Air and the MacBook for a lot of people will be a
0:52:14very difficult decision to make.
0:52:16I think so but I think the MacBook Air wins for most people because it's a little bit
0:52:19I mean, right? But it's ugly and old and the screen isn't retin-er- you know what I mean?
0:52:24And then you've got this beautiful thing, but it hasn't got as many ports and it's way more expensive. Like there's like
0:52:29Yeah, it's a difficult decision. I think between those two products. I think so and then you have the
0:52:3513 inch where they call a MacBook Pro, but it's not really a MacBook Pro except in form. It's got two ports
0:52:43Regular traditional function keys and
0:52:47Again is expensive for what it is. And so if you've got $1,400 to spend on Apple notebook
0:52:52It's a very difficult to know which is the right decision and for some people
0:52:58None of them are the right decision right for some people what they really need is something
0:53:03More akin to the MacBook Air, but with modern internals
0:53:07I mean it's worse now right because I'm still looking at the page the MacBook and the MacBook Pro at the same price now
0:53:13Mm-hmm, like that's making it even harder
0:53:16Like, how do you choose between the two of those?
0:53:19That's a really difficult decision to make.
0:53:22It's really frustrating.
0:53:24And I think, and there was a good conversation between Marco and John on the latest talk
0:53:30show episode about this, and I agree with what they said that I think it's time for
0:53:34Apple to basically just upend this entire end of their notebook lineup.
0:53:42maybe that means I don't know what that means maybe it means the MacBook Air
0:53:46goes away and the MacBook becomes $1,000 and you add a second port maybe this 13
0:53:51inch MacBook Pro gets adjusted somehow and is you know sort of modernized in a
0:53:57way that makes it whatever it is the clarity that was once there is gone and
0:54:03I think that's the core problem in the Mac lineup not that the Mac Mini hasn't
0:54:09gotten updated even though it's annoying not that the Mac Pro is still a year out
0:54:12but that's annoying. Not that the new 5k iMacs aren't out but that's annoying. The
0:54:16core problem and I think where they are hurting is they are losing consumers
0:54:21because consumers don't have a good option. And so people I think a
0:54:28lot of people feel like to get a good Mac notebook they got to buy that entry
0:54:32level touch bar machine which is $1799. At that point people just go buy a PC.
0:54:37People like you and me and people like our listeners, I will ride the Mac all the way down because I want to run Mac OS as long as possible.
0:54:46There are always people online who are running these comments about like, "Well, the new MacBook Pro still doesn't work for me for XYZ so I'm just going to go buy a Surface Book or something."
0:54:57That doesn't work for me because I want to run Mac OS.
0:54:59I genuinely have no idea how people can make that decision.
0:55:02like I think people do that.
0:55:04I'm sure they do, but like I cannot get in the mindset of like that that Mac is too expensive.
0:55:10I'll just go buy a Dell like they're so different. It's like, oh, that car doesn't work. I'll just go
0:55:16buy a motorbike. Right. Like, yeah, that there are so many things that are different between those
0:55:21two. Like I know people do it. I totally understand it. But like in the same way, like I can't I can't
0:55:26fathom someone who's just like, oh, I use Windows PCs. That MacBook looks pretty. I'll buy one of
0:55:32of those. It really like it boggles my mind. It's like I'm just gonna go and buy
0:55:35this one device instead of the other. It's really strange. Just as an aside I'm
0:55:41at Apple.com/Mac/compare and the first bullet point for Mac mini is
0:55:45highly energy efficient. Because electricity technology has moved on since
0:55:54the Mac was last updated. We got rid of the hand crank in the back. So I hope that
0:56:00Apple has an answer to this whether it is removing a model and changing the
0:56:05pricing or like ideally I think for for me would be to have a new consumer model
0:56:15that replaces the air and you change some of the branding so it makes sense
0:56:19and you have a machine like a Mac for the masses and Apple doesn't have one
0:56:24right now. Of course you have the pro angst around the MacBook Pro I think
0:56:29will know next quarter if these MacBook Pros solve that or not. I think they probably will
0:56:33for most people because they're a lot faster, the keyboard seems to be mostly fixed, and
0:56:36at least if people are like me, I've just given in to the USB-C lifestyle and I bought
0:56:41a bunch of cables on Amazon. Maybe that initial angst has faded and we just have come to accept
0:56:48that these machines are what they are. Time will tell with that, but it really feels like
0:56:52that consumer Mac notebook quagmire is catching up with them.
0:56:57Yeah, and here's the thing, I don't believe I'm smarter than the people making these decisions
0:57:02at Apple. I know they know this and I'm very confident. I'm not saying that you've
0:57:06heard it from me.
0:57:07No man, we saved them. They listened to the show and they're going to turn it around.
0:57:09Ah, do you know what? We didn't even notice that point in our earnings report. So I'm
0:57:15really confident that they have an answer to this. We just haven't seen it yet and for
0:57:20whatever reason, because things happen, we run companies, we know how things get delayed,
0:57:24right?
0:57:25Yeah.
0:57:26up much different scale than we are, things get delayed all the time.
0:57:30This is just what it's like when you run a company.
0:57:32And I'm sure that there's just something going on right now, which is kind of
0:57:36throwing things out of whack a little bit and it will be taken care of.
0:57:39Like I believe that, I genuinely do.
0:57:41But all I'm doing is like, I'm looking at these numbers and like, this is why I
0:57:46think it's happening, right?
0:57:47Like I'm trying to apply consumer thinking to the fact that people aren't
0:57:52buying the Macs as much as that because the Mac going down year on year is a rare, rare
0:57:59thing to happen. I saw some statistic of like how many consecutive quarters it's been or
0:58:05something right like where it's been up and there hasn't been a problem. It going down
0:58:10is a concern. It doesn't matter what the reason is. It shows something bad has happened and
0:58:16for whatever reason that was it's something that Apple doesn't want which means that they
0:58:21they will have a thing that they think is going to fix it.
0:58:23So that's kind of what I see on this.
0:58:25And it's not all doom and gloom, like the average selling price is up.
0:58:30Probably because there's not a good consumer option if people buy the MacBook or the MacBook
0:58:33Pro.
0:58:34But yeah, clearly something needs to give.
0:58:37And I'm, to borrow a term from you, I'm choosing to be optimistic about it because I believe
0:58:42Apple at their word that they care about the Mac.
0:58:44And caring about the Mac means caring about the MacBook and the notebook line.
0:58:48And so I think they'll get it straightened out.
0:58:49I just hope it's sooner rather than later.
0:58:52- I think we'll have some really good Mac stuff
0:58:54by the end of the year, I do.
0:58:55- I hope so.
0:58:56- I do.
0:58:57I mean, I don't think they're gonna give you
0:58:58the keyboard you want,
0:58:59but I think there's gonna be some updates to the line.
0:59:02I think that there's gonna be some--
0:59:04- Well, like the Mac Mini thing,
0:59:05like my home entertainment Mac Mini
0:59:07is like holding on by a thread.
0:59:08But my wife has a first generation MacBook from 2015
0:59:12and it's out of warranty now and it is a bit of a dog.
0:59:16And so I would like to replace that with something for her.
0:59:19I was thinking about even like the two port MacBook Pro.
0:59:21It's not much bigger, much heavier.
0:59:23It lives docked with a screen.
0:59:25So I thought, well maybe that'll be nice.
0:59:27But I'm holding off because I don't want to do something and then there'd be like an obvious
0:59:30answer in two months time.
0:59:33So I feel like people are in that situation.
0:59:38Some people are just holding on to see what happens.
0:59:40And they miss back to school.
0:59:42That's come and gone.
0:59:44But maybe they can have it for the holiday season.
0:59:47You wanted to make a point about services?
0:59:49I do.
0:59:50It's just been a thought that's been like rattling around in my mind and Jason wrote
0:59:55and his, which is linked, we're pulling all these numbers from, he wrote this paragraph
1:00:01about services that was really interesting.
1:00:04And the gist of it was, you know, Jason, I think like the two of us are very product
1:00:08focused in our Apple coverage and analysis.
1:00:12And like actually like Twitter yesterday, like I just have quit reporting on quarterly
1:00:16earnings because I just I don't find it interesting and it's time-consuming and
1:00:20but he said this and it really popped out at me I'm just gonna I'm gonna read
1:00:24for a second so forgive me but the discussion of services especially in a
1:00:29financial context is essentially a conversation about how Apple can grind
1:00:33more money out of every single person who uses an iPhone iPad and Mac and I
1:00:39think he hit on what's been bothering me about services the last couple of
1:00:44quarters it's great to see it growing you know it's Apple talks about Apple
1:00:48music subscribers but also in there you have iCloud paid subscriptions I people
1:00:52purchasing more storage I don't know the breakdown between those two things but
1:00:56it's in there somewhere and that works the Apple music thing is doesn't fall
1:01:02into this category right like if you want to pay for streaming music Apple
1:01:05has a good product I use it you use it I'm very happy with it but the services
1:01:10that fall into the category of,
1:01:13hey, you're out of iCloud space
1:01:16'cause we give you five gigs.
1:01:17That's where this idea of grinding people to a fine dust,
1:01:23that's really where it bugs me.
1:01:24And it may be too that I've had several conversations.
1:01:27I have a text message right now from my brother-in-law
1:01:30who his wife's phone is out of iCloud space
1:01:34and he thought he paid for it
1:01:35but I think he just paid for it on his account.
1:01:36They don't have a family plan.
1:01:37I'm gonna go fix it for them this weekend.
1:01:40People run into this and I still believe Apple should up the 5GB plan, but the flip side
1:01:46of that coin is, well if they do, their services revenue goes down because people pay to have
1:01:52more space because they're out of space because 5GB is pathetic.
1:01:56There's just something in there that makes me uncomfortable because it's not a consumer
1:02:02first, consumer friendly thing.
1:02:06Apple generally is pretty consumer friendly.
1:02:08We complain about a lot of stuff, but at the heart of it, I think Apple's a company that really cares about its users.
1:02:12But this is like a big stick in that eye to say, well, not not everywhere.
1:02:17Is that unfair? No, because it's weird, right?
1:02:21It's not unfair. It is a weird thing.
1:02:24It's like the conversation of, oh, we all would love them to change the default space or make the iCloud stuff cheaper.
1:02:30So they can't they cannot do it because their stock price will go down.
1:02:35Now, if they care about that, it depends what they care about most.
1:02:38I mean, they can do it, but the stock price will go down.
1:02:39So it's up to them, really, isn't it?
1:02:41Because so much of the share price right now is focused on the growing market,
1:02:46like whatever they're growing in.
1:02:47And they're not really growing anything else significantly.
1:02:50Services is the thing they're growing in.
1:02:52There is a huge TV shaped elephant in the room, right?
1:02:55Which is even kind of just like openly discussed on the conference call.
1:03:01Yeah.
1:03:02Seems just like we have some stuff that we'll work on in the area.
1:03:05we've hired some executives, we're really excited.
1:03:08I mean, it's because me and Jason talk about this a lot
1:03:10on Upstream, which is a segment on upgrade,
1:03:13where we look at kind of streaming services
1:03:17and the news that's going on within them.
1:03:20And Apple can't hide what they're doing
1:03:22because that's not how the entertainment industry works.
1:03:25People announce when the agents announce
1:03:29to Variety and Deadline and The Hollywood Reporter
1:03:33when a new show has been picked up by Apple,
1:03:35because that's how the industry works.
1:03:38So everyone knows they're working on a service.
1:03:41Apple even announced their deal with Oprah, right?
1:03:44Like, and TV stuff was part of that.
1:03:47And that's kind of what was spoken about in the call,
1:03:48Oprah was spoken about in the call,
1:03:50'cause it's the biggest deal that they've done.
1:03:52And this is another part of the services revenue,
1:03:55but this is an add-on, this is a thing you don't need.
1:03:58But it's the problem when there's stuff that you need
1:04:01for your devices and they're charging you for them and they're not changing the prices
1:04:04of them probably because it will impact this part of the earnings report.
1:04:08Yeah, and I wonder if I can be optimistic in saying that if Apple Video, whatever it's
1:04:13called, is successful and they're just raking in money, then they can give a little bit
1:04:21on the iCloud storage.
1:04:22It depends.
1:04:23It depends on the opinions of who makes those decisions because if the person that makes
1:04:27that decision is like, well, why don't we just keep all this money as opposed to making
1:04:32some...
1:04:33And the thing is, it's like, it's not a bad thing.
1:04:36It's business.
1:04:37Like it's not...
1:04:38Oh yeah, Apple's not a charity and I'm not saying they should run like one, but in a
1:04:42portfolio of products that are generally pretty customer friendly, this stands out to me.
1:04:48Right, but then it's like historically customer friendly.
1:04:51Still customer friendly, but has been in the past.
1:04:54Depends on making those decisions.
1:04:55I'm not trying to point a finger at Tim Cook here because I don't know if he's the one
1:05:00making these decisions.
1:05:01But someone is, and we don't know if that person's opinion is different to the people
1:05:06that came before them.
1:05:08Mm-hmm.
1:05:09Earnings, kids.
1:05:11See, we always say this.
1:05:13There's always some interesting stuff in there some way.
1:05:15There is.
1:05:16But it's funny.
1:05:17In these conversations, we're talking about products.
1:05:20Yeah, well, because the earnings shine information on the products.
1:05:23So the reason I feel like I'm the only person in our Frank group that is genuinely interested
1:05:29in the earnings.
1:05:30Everybody else kind of reports on them or begrudgingly does something with them.
1:05:34Like, "Oh, I hate doing this every time."
1:05:35But I find it genuinely interesting because I find out how many products are sold.
1:05:40That tells me what people are buying.
1:05:42It tells me what people are interested in.
1:05:43Well, except for the Apple Watch.
1:05:46It's still on a basis chart.
1:05:47Well, they don't give us numbers, but they give us data.
1:05:51But more than ever, it's a good thing to know.
1:05:55So I find it interesting.
1:05:57I look forward to getting this information because it's the only information that we
1:06:01get.
1:06:02So I like it.
1:06:03Even though, yes, I know it can be boring to look at four quarter rolling averages and
1:06:08year over year projections and stuff.
1:06:10But I also kind of like some of that stuff.
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1:07:24So tell me about your second MacBook Pro. Do you like it?
1:07:27I do. Yeah, so I purchased an entry model, we talked about this, and I very quickly realised
1:07:33that was not what I should have done.
1:07:36You have such poor grasp of your own desires for purchases.
1:07:41It's true. Well, so this time I was like, oh, I don't want to spend that much money.
1:07:45- No, I know. - So let me cheap out.
1:07:46- No, but I think-- - Cheap out at $1,800.
1:07:49- You can't cheap out on yourself.
1:07:50Yeah, yeah, it's like, woo.
1:07:52(laughing)
1:07:53- Let me spend just shy of two grand
1:07:56instead of just over it.
1:07:57So anyway, so I ended up with a pretty loaded one,
1:07:59i7, 16 gigs of RAM, terabyte SSD, and it's really good.
1:08:03No keys have fallen off yet, so I got that going for me.
1:08:07Actually, so I used a backpack for this trip
1:08:10that I haven't used in a while,
1:08:10and I found the iKey that had fallen off
1:08:13my 2016 MacBook Pro.
1:08:15So I think again it framed like a shadow box or something.
1:08:18- Did you get scared for a second?
1:08:19Did you think your iKey had fallen off?
1:08:21- I did, I was like oh you gotta be kidding me.
1:08:23(laughing)
1:08:25- Already?
1:08:25- Come on, it's brand new.
1:08:29So anyway, the aforementioned video I edited
1:08:33on this machine in Final Cut Pro.
1:08:36I did some stuff in Logic.
1:08:37I took everything that I could throw at it
1:08:40and it was totally fine.
1:08:42What has me most excited about this
1:08:44is that I can have a quad core 13 inch machine.
1:08:47I prefer 13 inches while traveling
1:08:51'cause it's such a lot less bulky and easier, lighter.
1:08:54But dual core just doesn't really cut it
1:08:57when it comes to my sorts of workloads
1:09:00as like a audio professional and like video amateur.
1:09:03You know, I need horsepower.
1:09:06I didn't wanna say video professional.
1:09:08I don't think I am one of those yet, but.
1:09:10I think it works. Yeah, please like and subscribe. I mean it's really nice.
1:09:17Battery life seems pretty good. I didn't include that in my ride up
1:09:21because I don't really know for sure but it seemed like I used it
1:09:26some in the airport just doing like admin stuff and it was hard to like wear
1:09:30the battery down. Rendering and stuff in Final Cut was you know what I
1:09:37I expected. The iMac Pro has ruined me in a degree because very few computers are
1:09:41faster than this one that Apple sells but it way faster than my 2015. The thing
1:09:47that really impresses me about this machine and it impressed me about the
1:09:52iMac Pro when I got it is the disk speed. Like these SSDs are so fast and that
1:09:59makes everything faster like having footage you need to import or you know
1:10:06APFS does some of this right moving things around but like just anytime you have to touch the file system
1:10:11It feels like it's instant and that makes just everything better
1:10:16Apple's really I think it's I don't think it's talked about as much they're really killing it in
1:10:21SSD territory it's expensive if you need, you know, two or four terabytes, but
1:10:27That t2 chip and the modules they're using really scream and that that makes everything happier
1:10:35Yeah, I mean it definitely sounds like this is the machine that you're looking for for
1:10:40now.
1:10:41I think it's great that you've been able to move back to a smaller size, right, with the
1:10:46additional power, right, that you don't have to compromise the size that you want for the
1:10:52power you need.
1:10:53I think that's a good thing.
1:10:54I think that's clearly, for you, the best thing that's come out of this.
1:10:58And I don't feel, I really honestly don't feel like I'm missing out by not having a
1:11:03a 6 core. Right. Like it's so much better than where I was and like granted this
1:11:08this video was a 10a timeline but most of the footage except for the
1:11:13selfie footage was 4k and you know so it was a mixed environment final cut and it
1:11:18just blew through it and I feel like anything I would need to do on the road
1:11:22because when I'm at home I mean the machine basically just sits on my desk
1:11:28and I use it some like at the coffee shop or something but I'm not
1:11:32doing production work on my laptop except when I travel and I feel like the balance is finally
1:11:36right that can have the size that I want and it'd be powerful enough to do I need to do I don't I
1:11:41honestly don't feel like I'm missing out by not having the 15. Yeah well that's good then right
1:11:47like yeah I'm really happy then you get the space back you get the weight back right and yeah I mean
1:11:5213 inch laptops I like more than 15s because 15s feel really big like they just feel really big
1:11:59So yeah, cool. I'm pleased you're happy with it.
1:12:00Yeah man, so far so good.
1:12:02I bought two things on Prime Day.
1:12:05Oh no.
1:12:07Yeah.
1:12:07What have you done?
1:12:09Well no, they're good things. I bought an espresso machine, like a full-on,
1:12:13it's called the Sage Barista Express.
1:12:14It's like, does the whole thing. It does the grinding,
1:12:18it extracts the espresso, does the milk thing.
1:12:22Yeah, we've wanted this for a while and we got a pretty good deal on it for Prime Day.
1:12:26I don't remember how much it was.
1:12:27Is it Vittiti approved?
1:12:28He was very, I sent him a picture and he was very, very excited about my photos.
1:12:33Oh good, good. Then you've not made a terrible mistake.
1:12:36He said, "That looks very Italian."
1:12:39That's all you need?
1:12:40Yep. That was all I wanted, really.
1:12:43How big is this thing?
1:12:45Not as big as it looks. It's big.
1:12:46It looks massive.
1:12:47It looks huge, but it's not as big as it looks. Like, it is big. It takes up a
1:12:54pretty significant size on the counter.
1:12:57But it's fine and I'm happy with it.
1:13:00Like it's it's a good machine.
1:13:02It's something we've wanted for a while.
1:13:03I don't make and I won't make all of my coffee with this because it's like a
1:13:06whole thing. It's very messy.
1:13:08It's like a whole thing.
1:13:09Yeah. This seems like I have some time.
1:13:11I can fire this thing up.
1:13:12It's like a weekend thing.
1:13:13I'm I've been used I've been doing a lot of it this week because it's my new toy
1:13:16and I'm trying to kind of get good at it.
1:13:18Sure.
1:13:20But I'm ultimately going to stick to my cold brew kit or my AeroPress or
1:13:24whatever for the majority because it generates so much mess and like it's so
1:13:29involved it takes me like steam everywhere there's coffee beans flying
1:13:33out the time you gotta clean the milk off the steam thing there's a steam
1:13:37hamper yep the tampers the whole thing and then you've got like a little blade
1:13:43it's like a hole it's a big thing but what I wanted to talk about really it was
1:13:47the fact that I bought a Roomba ooh yes because it was like
1:13:54Look, we've wanted a Roomba for a while and there was a Prime Day deal to get the Roomba
1:14:00960 30% off.
1:14:03We were like, "Okay, we could use some of the wedding present money."
1:14:09And we bought a Roomba.
1:14:10So we have a Roomba.
1:14:13I love the Roomba.
1:14:14The Roomba is great.
1:14:16The Roomba for me is like home automation at its finest because you can, if you want
1:14:23to program it to clean on a schedule. And that means you can start it to go whenever
1:14:28you want. This thing can be doing things like when you're not around. So like we could go
1:14:34out and then we could just start the Roomba to go off and clean. And that is like, we
1:14:40have so much home automation stuff, but it's typically things that we're doing when we're
1:14:44there. All it's doing is taking a light switch from the wall and putting it with our voices,
1:14:48right? Like it's, you know, I mean, you can set these things on timers, but I think most
1:14:52of us, for the majority of the time, do not use automation for our home stuff.
1:14:57Right. It's like it's making it more accessible, but it's not truly
1:15:03automation.
1:15:03More comfortable to use, but it's not we're not automating it except in certain
1:15:08circumstances. Right. Like we were all talking about this a couple of days ago
1:15:12when we were all on our various trips. You set the lights on an automation thing
1:15:15where I sort of come on at night and go off in the morning. So it looks like your
1:15:18home, etc, etc. Right.
1:15:21And it has an app, of course.
1:15:23So that's how you kind of set it off.
1:15:26The app is OK.
1:15:27You can tell it to clean.
1:15:29It gives you some basic information, but it also does this thing, which is cool.
1:15:32It shows you a report on how the cleaning went.
1:15:36So you get a little map that the Roomba has drawn of your home.
1:15:41Yeah, it wants your praise.
1:15:44Well, I guess so.
1:15:45I'll get to the like anthropomorphising of the Roomba in a minute, but
1:15:50But it shows you this map which you can internally map to the root of your home so you can see
1:15:59are there any rooms it's not getting and what parts of rooms is it not cleaning.
1:16:05This little robot that goes around the home, you have to make some considerations for it
1:16:09because there's some things it just can't do.
1:16:12Our one right now, I find this to be unbearably cute, which is again the way we think about
1:16:17this robot in our home right now.
1:16:19kind of goes along the edge of the doorway and it knocks the doorstop away and then shuts
1:16:24itself in a room, which I think is like the cutest thing in the world that the room gets
1:16:28stuck in the bathroom. So like with any animal that you have in your home, whether that be
1:16:35or let's say any living thing, so whether it's an animal or a child or robot, you have
1:16:42to make some considerations for it. So like right now we're like, can we, are there different
1:16:46like doorstops that we can get that maybe it won't close the door on its own, we're
1:16:51not sure yet. Or like sometimes it gets all ruffled up in a rug and you have to help him
1:16:56out because he gets all stuck in the rugs. Or you can walk around the house and find
1:17:00like, that's not where that goes, like, ah, the Roomba moved it. Right? Which is, you
1:17:04know, right now-
1:17:05Who moved the HomePod?
1:17:06Right now I have a problem that if the Roomba goes near my Wi-Fi, like my modem, whatever
1:17:12you call it, the base station, sometimes it pulls the ethernet cable out a little bit.
1:17:18Like "alright Roomba, we need to think about this."
1:17:20You're being DDoSed by the Roomba.
1:17:23It's doing something. It's like disconnecting itself from the wifi, I think. I think it's
1:17:27trying to make an escape. So, you know, these are just things that we're just, we're going
1:17:31to have to tweak some stuff in the home if we want this little thing to be working out.
1:17:34Because what it's doing is, it's moving around, it's lightly bumping into things, right? That's
1:17:39what it does. And then it kind of understands where it's got to go and it, but it bumps
1:17:43into everything constantly, but it's not going fast enough that it does any damage. It's
1:17:47just like lightly bumping into stuff, which again is also part of the cuteness of this
1:17:52little machine. I find it unbearably adorable that when we turn it on, we heard dunk, dunk,
1:17:58dunk. It's just funny as it's like bumping into every surface in our home. Um, but we
1:18:03like it. It has Echo, Google Home and IFTTT integration. So I can say, "Hey Echo, tell
1:18:10the Roomba to start cleaning." And it goes, "Doo doo doo," and then off it goes. And
1:18:15you can, in the same way that like, when I thought that it might be getting stuck somewhere,
1:18:19I asked it to stop and come back and it did. It came back and it finds this little home.
1:18:22They have a little home that they go back to. This is like our weird robot pet now,
1:18:28which makes me, I want to buy googly eyes for it.
1:18:30Please.
1:18:31I've seen people do that.
1:18:33do that like to put googly eyes on Roombas you know and we need to give the
1:18:37Roomba a name which we have not got yet and I have currently resisted putting
1:18:42some kind of musical device on it to make a DJ Roomba I think the home pod
1:18:46might kill it if I tried to put that it's really heavy you want to borrow my
1:18:52iPod hi-fi yeah I am kill it worse that's gotta be heavier than the home
1:18:57so like knock over furniture in your house I don't think it would be able to
1:19:01move. But yeah it's like I really like this thing because it is doing exactly
1:19:06what we want which is it's reducing the amount of vacuuming we need to do. Like
1:19:11it does not eliminate the amount of vacuuming you need to do because it
1:19:14can't get all the edges and some stuff it just won't pick up but it's reducing
1:19:20the amount that is required. Right? Right. Yeah I think we've thought about it. I
1:19:25think why I have been hesitant is they are a little pricey but they are you
1:19:30know it's gonna suck up all the kids toys like you know I'd have to work out
1:19:34a way for it to maybe it's just good at this like children just leave things on
1:19:38the floor just the the clearance would it would never pick up anything
1:19:43meaningful yeah yeah so you know maybe next time someone goes and sell I'll make a
1:19:48surprise purchase but I'm glad you're enjoying it I do think things like this
1:19:53do you know they have a a floor mopping robot now - what yes so if you don't have
1:19:58like if you have floors that need mopping rather than yeah hoovering or vacuuming.
1:20:03Yeah we have no carpet in our house at all. There you go. So maybe you need the mopping.
1:20:06Although this one I'm looking on the Amazon page, we'll do hardwood. So I think it's I think it's
1:20:12fun I think products like this are easy to put personality into. I remember a friend of mine got
1:20:17like the first room but like when they first came out who knows how many years ago and like we just
1:20:21all like sat around and watched it. Oh yeah. It was better than TV because like look at it go.
1:20:25First time we set it off, I chased it around the house.
1:20:27Look at him, look at him!
1:20:29It was very fun for me.
1:20:30So yeah, I'm pleased with my Roomba purchase.
1:20:34It is, I specifically wanted this one
1:20:38because it has the integrations.
1:20:41Yeah.
1:20:42Right, like I am unwilling to buy a product of this price now
1:20:48for my home that does not integrate with smart services in some way.
1:20:51Like I won't buy, I won't do it.
1:20:53Like I just won't do it.
1:20:55I think that's fair.
1:20:55- Because I feel like it really should.
1:20:58I mean, okay, my coffee maker doesn't,
1:21:00but it doesn't need to.
1:21:01It has that problem of need to pass.
1:21:03- That's also like an experience, right?
1:21:05Like I think there's a difference between vacuuming the floor
1:21:08and like making fancy coffee.
1:21:10- Yeah, 'cause you can get coffee machines
1:21:11that have this stuff,
1:21:12but I don't want those coffee machines, right?
1:21:15Like they're the ones that have the pods or whatever,
1:21:17or like the all-in-one system
1:21:18that just spits out a coffee for you at the end.
1:21:20But like, no, I wanna be getting the thing,
1:21:22I'm tamping it down and doing the milk.
1:21:23like I want to do that because that's the point of it yeah I love a lot of
1:21:28Roomba it's a nice addition to our home good well congratulations on your robot
1:21:33child thank you so much if you'd like to find the show notes oh you don't do this
1:21:37bit you do this bit do it you're back I think you should I don't want to do it
1:21:41okay if you want to find show notes this week if you want to buy a Roomba and be
1:21:46cool like Myke hashtag Myke was Roomba so that doesn't have the same ring to it
1:21:51We'll call it something.
1:21:52We'll have a W at the start, right?
1:21:55W-R-O-O-M-B-A.
1:21:56Ooh.
1:21:57That may be.
1:21:59We'll see.
1:22:01Anyways, those links are in the app you're listening to right now or on the website relay.fm/connected/203.
1:22:06If you do visit the webpage, you can send us an email with any follow-up or feedback
1:22:15you may have, or you can find us on Twitter.
1:22:18Myke is there as I-M-Y-K-E.
1:22:20You can find Myke on a bunch of shows at relay.fm/shows.
1:22:25I promise you'll find something there that you would like.
1:22:28You can find Federico, he's the editor-in-chief
1:22:30of MacStories.net and he is on Twitter as v-i-t-i-c-c-i.
1:22:35You can find me there as i-s-m-h or at 512pixels.net.
1:22:40We'd like to thank our sponsors this week,
1:22:42Hover, Pingdom, and Inboard Technology
1:22:45for making this episode possible.
1:22:47And until next time, Myke, say goodbye.
1:22:49Cheerio!
1:22:51Adios!