203: Big Fancy Museum Boy


00:00:00   (upbeat music)

00:00:02   From Relay FM, this is Connected, episode 203.

00:00:12   I'm your host, Steven Hackett,

00:00:13   and this episode is brought to you by our fine sponsors,

00:00:16   Hover, Pingdom, and Inboard Technology.

00:00:19   And I am joined, drum roll please,

00:00:22   by my friend and yours, Michael Hurley.

00:00:23   - Federico Vitucci.

00:00:24   Hi, ciao, ciao, Steven.

00:00:27   It's Federico here from Italy.

00:00:29   Hey buddy! Hi, I'm back. I'm back baby! And Federico isn't! There was a falling out.

00:00:36   Don't say that, that's not true. Federico's computer exploded.

00:00:41   You don't know all of my conversations. Yeah, so here's the thing. Federico was going to be on today's episode

00:00:46   and then he was going to be away for a couple of weeks and we have some fun stuff planned for the next two weeks

00:00:51   because he's taking his vacation like I have mine, but unfortunately Federico's audio interface basically

00:00:57   It basically exploded two minutes before we started recording today so Federico couldn't

00:01:01   make it.

00:01:02   So we will soldier on.

00:01:03   I am freshly caffeinated so it's going to be a good show.

00:01:06   Should we just jump right into follow up?

00:01:10   Let's jump right into follow up.

00:01:12   We're in follow up now.

00:01:13   We've jumped in.

00:01:15   So we spoke about mobile Safari and this question about is it hold back the iPad because it's

00:01:24   it's not like full desktop browsing capable, right?

00:01:27   There are things that you can do in a desktop browser

00:01:28   you can't do in mobile Safari.

00:01:30   And we had a bunch of feedback around the same question,

00:01:32   and I wish we had talked about it on the show,

00:01:35   but Safari does have a option

00:01:39   that says request desktop site.

00:01:41   So if you long press on like the refresh button,

00:01:45   you have two options.

00:01:45   You have request desktop site

00:01:47   and you have load without content blockers,

00:01:49   which can also be helpful if you use a content blocker,

00:01:51   maybe a page is acting up.

00:01:53   But a lot of people are like, well, doesn't that get you

00:01:57   kind of where you need to be?

00:01:58   And it can help sometimes,

00:02:01   but I think most of the things we were talking about

00:02:03   and things we had in mind in that segment

00:02:06   were things with like interaction.

00:02:08   So like some sort of user interface on a website

00:02:13   that doesn't work on mobile.

00:02:17   Like, so that can be, it can kind of get you there,

00:02:22   but usually not all the way.

00:02:23   - So the thing is, the request desktop site

00:02:27   doesn't really change.

00:02:28   It actually sometimes introduces new problems

00:02:31   because if sometimes I have found that if a company

00:02:35   is sending you to a mobile site on an iPad,

00:02:38   it typically means their desktop site

00:02:40   really doesn't work on an iPad.

00:02:43   Like they're sending you to the mobile site for a reason

00:02:47   is typically what I found.

00:02:49   Like just today I needed to,

00:02:51   I was playing around with shortcuts

00:02:53   and I was just setting up

00:02:55   like a tell me what my calendar events thing is, right?

00:02:58   And I found like a weird bug in shortcuts

00:03:00   where I had a Google Calendar and an Apple Calendar,

00:03:03   both with the same name.

00:03:05   And the Google Calendar just looks at,

00:03:07   I set it up with just some recurring events

00:03:09   to add some things with Todoist.

00:03:11   And it was doing this thing

00:03:14   where even though I said I wanted the Apple Calendar,

00:03:17   it was giving me results for both in shortcuts

00:03:19   because the calendars were named exactly the same.

00:03:22   Kind of weird, that's what I expected was happening.

00:03:24   So I thought, okay, well I'll just go and change

00:03:26   the name of the Google calendar

00:03:27   'cause I never look at it or use it anyway,

00:03:28   so I'll just change the name of that entry in the calendar.

00:03:31   And I was trying to go to the google.com/canada website

00:03:36   and I would go to get, given the mobile page,

00:03:38   I hit the desktop button, it would show me,

00:03:40   hey, this is new, we've changed the UI.

00:03:43   And you press okay and it would take me back

00:03:44   to the mobile site and I was just in this loop,

00:03:47   I couldn't get out of it.

00:03:48   So like I find this stuff a lot.

00:03:50   Google stuff does this, Twitch's site does this,

00:03:52   they send you to the mobile site.

00:03:54   If you go to the desktop one, it kind of has a fixed view,

00:03:57   which is kind of zoomed in and you can't scroll.

00:03:59   Like this is a lot of the problems that actually get,

00:04:02   new ones get introduced with the desktop site thing.

00:04:05   So it typically doesn't help, honestly.

00:04:08   I, you know, I enjoyed your guys' discussion on this one.

00:04:14   I actually will just put my stake in the ground

00:04:17   say that Apple needs to fix this, like Apple needs to find a way to solve this problem

00:04:21   rather than leaving it on website creators to do.

00:04:25   Like, I feel like this is something that Apple needs to fix.

00:04:28   Like, however they do it, they could fix it.

00:04:30   Like, you know, they could even have some weird mode where you do bring up like a little

00:04:34   onscreen trackpad. It's like in the same way that they add a request desktop site button,

00:04:39   which is a weird button to add anyway.

00:04:41   Right. Like, that's weird when you think about it, to add that button.

00:04:45   you're making like a con, you're like conceding to something by adding that button.

00:04:49   So they should find some way to make it easier to use all these things when

00:04:54   you're on a, when you're on an iPad. That's what I would like to see anyway.

00:04:57   But that's where I, if I was going to kind of draw my line in the sand,

00:05:00   I would say that Apple needs to find a way to fix this as opposed to hoping the

00:05:03   rest of the internet catches up.

00:05:05   Yeah, I think you're totally right. I think it's on Apple and they,

00:05:09   they've got, they have a desktop browser. I just think it kills me.

00:05:14   It's not like they gotta go out and build one.

00:05:16   They have one.

00:05:17   Just shoehorn it in there.

00:05:19   And you'll be sad.

00:05:20   You know, I agree with you, even though you're kinda making a joke, right?

00:05:24   But obviously, no one's expecting Apple to just take the Mac OS browser and put it on

00:05:29   the iPad.

00:05:31   But they can go a long way to making them closer, I'm sure.

00:05:33   Right.

00:05:34   I mean, yeah, I'm not saying bring the whole thing over, but they've got the engine.

00:05:38   They've got the renderer.

00:05:39   And you would think a bunch of that's cross-platform.

00:05:43   I agree, I think it's an Apple thing.

00:05:45   - It won't be a problem when all the apps

00:05:48   are iOS apps anyway, so it'll be fine.

00:05:50   That's when they'll fix it.

00:05:51   So you just got back from your own trip,

00:05:56   but because you're committed to the show in a big way,

00:06:01   you didn't take any time off,

00:06:02   you went to Detroit, Detroit, Michigan,

00:06:05   to the Henry Ford Museum

00:06:07   because you're a big fancy museum boy.

00:06:10   - Is that a thing?

00:06:13   I'm not sure that should be a thing.

00:06:14   - Yeah, yeah, yeah, you are one of them.

00:06:16   - Yeah, so I spoke about it on last week's show.

00:06:18   Henry Ford had a Maker Faire I went up to,

00:06:21   a friend of the show, John Voorhees,

00:06:22   and frequent guest of Connected Now.

00:06:24   - Very frequent recently, very.

00:06:26   - He's been on more than anyone, he's been on three times,

00:06:28   I think that's the record.

00:06:30   - I don't know, Underscore used to come on a lot

00:06:32   to explain things we couldn't understand.

00:06:34   - That's true.

00:06:35   I have to go back in the archives and see.

00:06:39   So yeah, so John came up too, so it was fun to see him.

00:06:42   So we went to the Maker Faire and then I did some speaking, but the IMAX are there.

00:06:46   The 13 IMAX G3s I donated were on display.

00:06:51   So I did a little travel video on YouTube kind of showing the trip,

00:06:56   showing the IMAX and which was a lot of fun to put together.

00:06:59   And it was fun to see them. And I had a really, really good time.

00:07:03   So I also met several listeners.

00:07:08   Several listeners came to both the Saturday and Sunday session that I gave.

00:07:12   So I didn't know you were doing two days. Did you do the same talk two times? Yes, man. You're a boss

00:07:18   That's that's a difficult thing to do and there were people and both of them. It was awesome

00:07:22   So if you were a listener and came up and said hey, thank you

00:07:25   It was great to hang out with some people for a little while

00:07:28   It was a it was a fun fun weekend Myke, but you know, I'm a homebody

00:07:32   I was glad to be back back home, especially knowing that you'd be here. Yeah, I mean as you can't miss that

00:07:37   But you've you've buried the lead on this though your IMAX a part of a like

00:07:42   exhibit now. That's serious! It was a little surreal. I said in the

00:07:49   video I came across them accidentally. Like I came in a side entrance in the

00:07:55   museum. Apparently I wasn't supposed to but I did. And so I was like, "Oh, I wonder

00:07:59   where they are." And I look up and there they are. Like it's like the first thing

00:08:03   I see. And it's in a section about like translucency and transparency and the

00:08:09   The IMAX are sort of the heart of that exhibit and all 13 were out and had my name on a placard

00:08:18   which felt kind of good.

00:08:19   Yeah that placard's hilarious.

00:08:21   Do you have a picture of the placard anywhere that's online?

00:08:24   I do.

00:08:25   Yeah yeah.

00:08:26   I want to put that in the notes because it's really funny to me because they list each

00:08:29   Mac, right?

00:08:30   They list each of them.

00:08:32   And it's got your name with all of them?

00:08:33   And I just wonder if they couldn't have just put a big back, you know like, Stephen Agate

00:08:38   gave us these and then just a list. It's really funny to me that you're the only

00:08:42   person on that entire card and you're listed like multiple times. I find

00:08:47   it kind of hilarious. I love it. Yeah I guess because I think in the paperwork

00:08:52   they're listed as like 13 like in their individual donations and so I guess

00:08:56   that's how they because each one has like its own tracking number in their

00:08:59   system so my guess is... And you would want to list them individually in case you

00:09:04   need one of them for something right? Right. You wouldn't want to list them as

00:09:08   one individual exhibit, right? If you just want the blue one, whatever, right? You just

00:09:13   want the original. So, but yeah, it is, it's very good. I'm very proud of you because

00:09:18   this is a very weird and incredible thing to have something that you've done be put

00:09:24   in a museum. Like I know you didn't make them, but like you contributed to this permanent

00:09:31   part of the Henry Ford Museum, which is no joke. But the funny thing is, this started

00:09:37   it as a dumb joke. Like that's what I love most about this. There was a dumb joke which

00:09:42   it expanded into a serious project which is now a part of a museum. And I kind of love

00:09:47   that. It was like, oh, I have this funny idea for a video where I would eventually have

00:09:52   all these IMAX or however it started. I don't even know how it started, but it was just

00:09:56   like a silly idea. And now, like now look where it's gone to. I think that's just kind

00:10:02   of incredible.

00:10:03   yeah I put up a blog post I'm trying to find it where I was like oh yeah I would

00:10:09   be cool to like collect all 13 I posted like on a Saturday and then they just

00:10:13   started pouring in and and then they were all here and then I had to I couldn't

00:10:18   keep them all but it started as the thing is I'm just gonna see if I could

00:10:22   do this right and like it's a really fitting end I couldn't be happier with

00:10:28   the way this project ended like it there is no greater ending there there is no

00:10:33   - There's no ending that is better than this.

00:10:35   Like, this is it.

00:10:36   - And they're together, which was important to me.

00:10:38   - You want your children to live together.

00:10:40   You don't want them to get split up.

00:10:42   - Yeah, I wanted them to be able to grow together.

00:10:44   - Yeah.

00:10:45   (laughing)

00:10:47   - So yeah, so it was really cool.

00:10:51   - Well, I'm very proud of you.

00:10:53   - Thank you.

00:10:54   - What is-- - Well, what's next?

00:10:57   - I see some more Mac stuff here,

00:10:59   and I guess there's nothing we can do about it now.

00:11:02   it's the summer and that means that Mac stuff's happening I guess.

00:11:06   I took over upgrade and did a Mac, a whole Mac episode with Jason.

00:11:10   Rectified that very quickly. Yeah, I saw that.

00:11:13   This is, I want to talk about Spekt, it is a

00:11:17   new Mac app from Steven Frank

00:11:20   and I brought it up because we've talked a lot about

00:11:24   file management and photo management over the years and like using photos or

00:11:28   like all of us used to do more of this of keeping everything

00:11:32   in Dropbox and using Finder to navigate our photos.

00:11:37   And there are a couple different apps on the Mac,

00:11:42   one's called Loop, Specked is a new one

00:11:44   that basically look at those folders

00:11:46   and give you a nice interface to manage them.

00:11:47   And this is, from the ones I've seen and used,

00:11:50   the nicest one.

00:11:51   So if you are still using Dropbox or just Finder

00:11:55   or something to manage your photos

00:11:57   and not using iCloud Photo Library, Google Photos,

00:12:00   this I think would be a nice tool

00:12:01   have at your disposal to help organize and manage things. And also it is, you

00:12:08   know, I'm not trying to throw shade, it's kind of noteworthy to see a new Mac app.

00:12:12   Like that this is just like a thing now or it's like you see a new Mac app it's

00:12:16   like oh it's a new Mac app. Like that doesn't happen very much anymore. Like

00:12:20   even even small utilities or at least they don't necessarily break out or

00:12:24   they're not newsworthy in any way but this is made by someone who has a great

00:12:29   pedigree right so yeah and it's an interesting little thing it's a very

00:12:33   Mackie looking app like it's very simple and it's but I think that's by design so

00:12:39   yeah as pastor boy in the chat room is knowing we probably shouldn't have

00:12:43   spoken about it because it's photo management related and it unfortunately

00:12:46   means that he's gonna have to shut that app down sorry Steven sorry sorry

00:12:50   Steven sorry we're big fans of your work we're sorry we had to do this to you

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00:15:35   So there are a bunch of rumors, Myke, about upcoming iPad Pros.

00:15:40   We have one saying that the 2018 models may drop the headphone jack because of courage,

00:15:47   And another one about smart connectors and face ID, but let's start with the headphone

00:15:51   jack thing.

00:15:52   So they dropped it on the iPhone 7.

00:15:55   Some people like the Verge are still very, very personally upset about it.

00:16:00   I think the rest of us have more or less moved on.

00:16:03   It's annoying sometimes, but not very often.

00:16:06   But the iPad feels like a different thing.

00:16:08   The phone, I could kind of see why they had to do it.

00:16:10   You see iFixit take the thing apart.

00:16:12   It's like, "Okay, I can see why you need the space."

00:16:14   But the iPad is massive.

00:16:16   There's not room in there for a little headphone jack.

00:16:19   What's going on here?

00:16:20   I mean, I am still personally annoyed about the removal of the headphone jack on the iPhone.

00:16:24   I'm not joking.

00:16:25   Like, this isn't the point where, like, every time they release a new device, I'm not like,

00:16:29   "Where's the headphone jack?"

00:16:31   But I've just never been personally happy, content with the reason.

00:16:36   Like, I don't think we ever...

00:16:38   Apple never gave a reason, right?

00:16:40   They were just like, "We've removed it because we're courageous."

00:16:43   I know that's a meme, but that was like the reason.

00:16:46   And people have claimed, every time I bring this up, and there's going to be people that

00:16:49   are going to do it right now, people tell me it was to help with waterproofing, or they

00:16:53   tell me it was to add a taptic motor.

00:16:56   Nobody can prove any of those things, in my opinion.

00:16:59   They removed the headphone jack because it was just something that they wanted to do

00:17:02   for whatever reason.

00:17:03   But the reason, honestly, I stand by my original reason for this is they needed it gone from

00:17:10   the 10 because they were constrained with what they wanted to put in the 10

00:17:14   so they just removed it on the 7 because the 10 is the one they wanted to sell

00:17:18   they didn't want the 10 to be bogged down in the story of they removed the

00:17:23   headphone jack so they got rid of it on the 7 so that they had a runway leading

00:17:26   up to the 10 that's what I stand by that reason I 100% believe that's why they

00:17:31   did it I understand why they did that but it still annoys me anyway let's

00:17:37   Let's assume that the reasons that people give waterproofing or more space inside of

00:17:41   the device are true.

00:17:42   Right?

00:17:43   Let's just assume that.

00:17:44   These are two things the iPad Pro doesn't need waterproofing or more space inside of

00:17:48   the case.

00:17:49   You don't want to use your iPad Pro in the tub safely?

00:17:51   I mean, I would love it, but it doesn't need it.

00:17:54   Right?

00:17:55   Like it just doesn't.

00:17:56   You do not need to waterproof your iPad.

00:17:58   Like we're good.

00:17:59   Like we're fine.

00:18:00   It's not a thing.

00:18:01   And we've sidestepped the conversation that there are plenty of products on the market

00:18:05   with headphone jacks that are water resistant.

00:18:06   I'm just gonna say something about that.

00:18:08   - Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:18:09   I mean, that was rubbish, right?

00:18:10   Samsung, there are Android phones released every day

00:18:13   that have headphone jacks that are waterproof

00:18:15   and Samsung were doing it before the iPhone 7 anyway.

00:18:17   So they had a great ad.

00:18:19   I really liked their ad.

00:18:20   They had a rapper pour champagne on the phone.

00:18:22   It was really funny.

00:18:22   I enjoyed that ad.

00:18:23   It was one of Samsung's better ads.

00:18:25   So if they do do this,

00:18:28   I am very keen to see what their reason is

00:18:31   and I expect the reason to just be bull.

00:18:36   Like I don't honestly, I don't even think there'll be a reason.

00:18:39   I think now they will tell the original reason for the seven of we live in a

00:18:43   wireless world. Like that's what I think the reason will be. Um,

00:18:46   and the reason that this will annoy me is it's because coming later on in the

00:18:51   year or next year, they have a bunch of other Bluetooth headphones.

00:18:54   They want to sell me and all right. Like it's a strategy thing,

00:18:59   but I think it's a mistake.

00:19:00   I think it's more of a mistake than the phone because I genuinely believe like

00:19:04   iPads and over the ear headphones in traveling circumstances is a huge use of this device and

00:19:11   Mm-hmm. I think it's I will be personally really annoyed about it

00:19:15   Like if this probably more than the iPhone because I just don't think

00:19:20   That the iPad is really hurting for that space back

00:19:25   Like and and if they are designing a product where they're that tight I may say like just think about it like

00:19:33   Think about it. Like do you need to but anyway, this is all a rumor. I just want to say I think it's silly

00:19:38   I think that there are a lot of use cases for the iPad that will be a real shame

00:19:42   like a lot of musicians and DJs and stuff like that use this device and

00:19:48   It would I think it would kind of suck if that stuff was taken away

00:19:52   I know that you'd mentioned to me so we're talking about this beforehand

00:19:56   That payment companies you get those like the square readers and stuff like and that's the thing is that exists

00:20:01   but a lot of those are being replaced now for Bluetooth devices because of the chip

00:20:05   technology.

00:20:06   Yeah, that's fading away.

00:20:07   It would annoy me, as you can clearly tell, I may be able to be in my bonnet about this

00:20:12   one, but I think that it would kind of be unnecessary.

00:20:16   And if they remove it from the iPad, then it's going from the Mac.

00:20:19   Right?

00:20:20   And if it doesn't, then again, we'll ask questions.

00:20:22   Why is it still on the Mac?

00:20:24   But hey ho.

00:20:25   Yeah, I mean, the Mac definitely feels too far.

00:20:29   For all the professional audio reasons and stuff,

00:20:32   it may be still important on the iPad.

00:20:35   The Mac has all of those and a lot more.

00:20:37   The thing that came to mind for me,

00:20:39   'cause I've been traveling a lot,

00:20:40   is that I very often will use wired headphones

00:20:44   on a plane with an iPad.

00:20:45   In fact, I was doing that when we were getting

00:20:47   these show notes together.

00:20:48   Not because, I mean, yes, they sound better

00:20:51   on a plane and stuff, but if I'm on a long flight,

00:20:54   I just don't wanna drain my AirPods

00:20:57   and then they'd be dead when I get where I'm going

00:21:00   or like lose one on an airplane

00:21:02   and then they're gone forever.

00:21:04   Which is very easy to do. - My AirPods don't last

00:21:05   the trips that I take, right, they don't.

00:21:08   I have to do this thing at some point

00:21:09   where I take one out and charge it

00:21:11   and then put it back in again

00:21:13   and then take the other one out and charge it

00:21:14   and then put them both back in again.

00:21:16   And like, that's not ideal, right?

00:21:19   Like if I'm listening to something on my iPhone or whatever,

00:21:21   listening to a podcast, it's not an ideal situation.

00:21:23   Like they don't last a full plane journey for me,

00:21:26   So it would be very frustrating to to to have that because then it's like one,

00:21:31   you know, I could at least have the headphones that I purchased be used

00:21:35   in other places using my iPad.

00:21:36   And it's like, well, now I've just wasted these headphones because now I can't plug

00:21:39   them into anything because the dongle life is dumb.

00:21:43   Right. Like it's it's not a great solution.

00:21:45   Plugging it into the lightning port because then I can't charge it.

00:21:48   And remember, I'm on a plane.

00:21:49   So sometimes I need to anyway.

00:21:51   So, yes, we're in the weeds on this one.

00:21:53   But you can clearly see it would frustrate me.

00:21:55   What if they replace the headphone jack with like your three lightning port so you had

00:21:59   one for charging one for pencil charging and then one for your adapter that's that's all

00:22:04   the problem make one of those USB C and then maybe we can talk.

00:22:11   There's also a lot of talk about the smart connector.

00:22:15   And this kind of goes like in conjunction with the face ID camera.

00:22:19   Yeah, we're talking about like iPad orientation, right.

00:22:22   So despite the printing and the Apple logo on the back, I think most people, especially

00:22:29   if you have an iPad Pro, use iPads in landscape most of the time.

00:22:33   We all rotate them occasionally, but if you have it in a keyboard case, it's going to

00:22:39   be in landscape mode.

00:22:41   The Apple logo is on the side and then the headphone cable has got to fall across the

00:22:46   screen.

00:22:47   It's a little strange.

00:22:48   multitasking system is built around an iPad being used in landscape because it's just not that nice to use in portrait, right?

00:22:54   Because you don't have to screen size. Like if you use apps, if you either use a keyboard or you use multitasking

00:23:02   you use your iPad in landscape

00:23:04   probably most of the time and if you do either of those two things you own an iPad Pro

00:23:11   You know what?

00:23:12   Like, you know

00:23:13   I feel like if you're spending a lot of time doing either of those two things on your iPad,

00:23:18   you're probably using an iPad Pro.

00:23:22   So the idea is that moving the smart connector somehow means that they're making it a portrait

00:23:27   device and people are drawing a line to Face ID.

00:23:30   That's kind of where this is all going.

00:23:32   But I think we need to uncouple these a little bit first.

00:23:36   So let's park the smart connector discussion and now talk about Face ID.

00:23:40   So people were saying, "Oh, they've moved the smart connector to the bottom because

00:23:43   now the iPad is a portrait device because the Face ID sensor doesn't work in landscape."

00:23:48   Right?

00:23:49   This is the argument that's being put forward here, I think, by a lot of people who have

00:23:53   seen the rumors from Makotaku, right, who said that the smart connector was moving to

00:23:58   the bottom based upon supply chain discussions, as well as other things, which we'll get

00:24:02   to.

00:24:03   So I'm just going to say I really don't think this is the case.

00:24:08   I do not believe that Apple would ship an iPad Pro with Face ID but it only worked in

00:24:14   portrait.

00:24:15   Personally, I don't think they're going to ship an iPad Pro with Face ID that only works

00:24:21   in one orientation anyway, if it's portrait or landscape.

00:24:25   I don't think that's what they're going to do.

00:24:27   I think that if that was the case, they just wouldn't put it in.

00:24:31   That's how I feel.

00:24:32   You just don't do it until you can do it in multiple orientations.

00:24:36   And I've seen, I mean I've spoken about this I think on upgrade a few weeks ago and Federico

00:24:43   brought it up for today's show as well, that there was a developer session during WWDC

00:24:49   about the face detector API in iOS 12 supporting multiple faces, so this is how it gets that

00:24:56   multiple looks right in iOS 12 on the iPhone 10.

00:25:00   You get like what are they called, alternate look or something like that where you can

00:25:04   set like a second version of your own face apparently like it says as in face ID but

00:25:12   it also supports multiple orientations and they've shown some pictures of the face detector

00:25:18   API being what they call orientation agnostic and it can detect faces in multiple orientations.

00:25:25   Now I do have a question which I haven't been able to get an answer for is is this the same

00:25:31   technology that's utilized in Face ID. I'm expecting probably, right, because it is machine

00:25:37   learning. It's all machine learning. And Face ID, there isn't a problem with the sensors

00:25:44   that can only read it in one orientation. It is what the machine learning algorithm

00:25:49   is able to extract, right? Like that's my understanding. It's like, it just provides

00:25:54   this information and then the system says, yes, it's a face, but it only works in portrait

00:25:58   right now. Well, the face detector API has changed and it now recognizes in multiple

00:26:04   orientations. So in theory, this should say that we will be able to get this in the future.

00:26:12   But then I ask a question of why isn't this in iOS 12 on the iPhone? Because that hasn't

00:26:19   changed. So I don't know. I don't have an answer to that.

00:26:22   Yeah, I mean maybe it is one of those features that it shows up in iOS 12 on the phone with

00:26:29   the iPads.

00:26:30   Well, it could be in iOS 12.1, right?

00:26:32   Because the iPads might ship in November or something like that.

00:26:34   Yeah, you never know.

00:26:35   I don't know enough to say for sure this is the same thing.

00:26:38   I mean, on the surface of it, it looks like it would be.

00:26:41   And it would be kind of an app-ly thing to do, but like, oh, like, you know, the new

00:26:46   iPad support just, but if you have an iPhone 10, it does it too, you know, like bringing

00:26:50   that back to... Oh, it could be an iPhone 11 feature, right? Yeah, that's a good point.

00:26:58   It could be that there's like a, not maybe not even a fully second generation Face ID

00:27:02   platform, but like a, you know, Face ID 1.5, you know, just a little tweak to the hardware

00:27:08   that makes this possible. Yeah. And it's only on the new phones and iPads. Maybe. I mean,

00:27:12   I don't know how all this stuff works, but it might require some additional processing

00:27:16   power to be able to do it? I don't know. Like maybe some new version of metal that only

00:27:20   runs on the 12X or something. We don't know, right? But there could be a technical reason

00:27:26   for it. But I hadn't thought of that. Like, yeah, it might just ship on the new phone.

00:27:30   It's like that is a feature of the new phone. Would be a weird feature to have, right? Because

00:27:35   it's kind of pointing a floor in your system. But hey, I'm sure they could do it in some

00:27:39   other way, which could be interesting.

00:27:42   So let's go back to the smart connector.

00:27:47   So I really find it hard to believe that Apple is going to make a smart keyboard for portrait

00:27:56   orientation.

00:27:57   Oh yeah.

00:27:58   Right?

00:27:59   So let's assume there's a couple of different things that could be going on here, right?

00:28:04   That it could be a second connector for other accessories is one potential option, right?

00:28:12   There could be a, and there was this thing on 9to5Mac of this CAD system and it's like,

00:28:17   well, it actually doesn't really look like the smart connector as we know it.

00:28:20   It actually is like this weird cut out and it's on the back.

00:28:23   So let's say, let's say it's on the back, but in portrait orientation, what if the new

00:28:28   smart keyboard is actually a case and it, or there's like this plate that goes on the

00:28:34   back of it and it allows for an adjustable angle now.

00:28:38   like it might have some kind of like, I don't know, like a hinge or something and then the

00:28:43   connector just goes fixed on the back of it or there could just be a second smart connector.

00:28:50   There could be many different things but like I really doubt that Apple are going to ship

00:28:55   a portrait orientation keyboard and/or they won't ship a keyboard with the iPad Pro. Like

00:29:00   I don't see any of these things happening which just tells me that there's a couple

00:29:05   different things going on here. One, this is all wrong. Or two, it's partly correct,

00:29:11   the other part of it's being completely missed off. Which is typically what happens, right?

00:29:14   It's like we get this stuff on the face of it and we're like, well, logically,

00:29:19   with the information that we have been provided, it would seem this. But then when they show it

00:29:26   off, it's like, oh, right, we didn't see that part because we didn't have that information

00:29:31   because nobody really knows what's going on.

00:29:33   Yeah, I mean this render is all based on is like really generic. And I mean, you can make a case

00:29:40   that that's not a smart connector. That's a touch ID sensor. I mean, who like, it's, it's not that,

00:29:46   but it's, it's a very vague artwork. And so I don't know how much we could draw from it. But

00:29:51   I agree with you portrait keyboard would be weird. They did that initially. And it was super strange.

00:29:56   And I tend to think that if this is a smart connector,

00:30:00   it's either a second one, and they have some sort

00:30:02   of new accessory coming, or it is to make something

00:30:07   like the smart keyboard, like you said, adjustable

00:30:10   or more useful somehow, not a radical change in direction.

00:30:14   - Yeah, or maybe this other thing on the back

00:30:18   isn't even a smart connector.

00:30:20   Like it's something completely new, right?

00:30:22   Like it is a new thing that they have for this device,

00:30:25   which we don't know about yet in the same way that we didn't know what the smart

00:30:28   connector was when it was rumored, right?

00:30:31   Like what is this thing that's on the bottom?

00:30:33   Nobody knows what it was for, right?

00:30:35   Right. Like who knows what it could be.

00:30:37   But I'm.

00:30:38   Irrespective of all of this, because I have my own beliefs about what they're

00:30:43   going to do, right? Seeing all of this stuff, though, makes me excited because it

00:30:47   seems like there's going to be some really big hardware changes.

00:30:50   Like I'm sure that it's going to be some big changes, but I personally, my belief

00:30:54   on it and I'd be super surprised if I'm wrong, is that Face ID will work in

00:30:57   landscape and I will still have a keyboard in landscape, right? And whatever

00:31:01   it takes to get me to those points is like whatever it is, but I'm just super

00:31:05   excited to see that they're not even just bringing the the bezels thinner on

00:31:11   these iPads, like they're doing a bunch of other stuff as well which makes me

00:31:15   excited, right? Because these are the devices that I use every day that I love

00:31:19   that are my computers. So I'm super excited about it. And about the screens.

00:31:24   So the rumor, all of the stuff that went with this rumor, I mean because

00:31:29   obviously it's gonna be no home button, we know that right? Like we know that

00:31:33   there's gonna be a notch. Like we can see all that stuff in iOS now, like you can

00:31:37   see in iOS 12 what is on the iPad, you can see the changes. But the rumors also

00:31:42   indicate that both devices are gonna get larger screens but will be physically

00:31:48   smaller. That is exciting to me. Like, I think that's really great. I mean, maybe

00:31:55   that's why they say they get rid of the headphone jack, right? Because this

00:31:57   device is smaller. It's like, oh, we accidentally cut the headphone jack off.

00:32:01   You know, like, it got sanded down.

00:32:04   Yeah, what are we gonna do?

00:32:05   It's still in there. They're just the port got sanded off. Such a shame. I still

00:32:10   won't still won't buy that. But I that makes me excited to write bigger screen,

00:32:15   smaller devices like yeah I love the sound of that that's everything I want

00:32:19   so do I and depending on where that ended up I think I could be swayed back

00:32:26   to the bigger iPad I'm using the 10.5 right now but who knows now what will

00:32:31   happen is you'll buy the big one and you'll use it for two months you'll sell

00:32:35   it buy the small one that's pretty much what will happen or you'll buy the small

00:32:40   one you'll sell the small one and buy the big one then you'll sell the big one

00:32:43   and buy the small one. And then go back to the Newton. How's your second MacBook Pro

00:32:47   doing, by the way? It's great. Right, okay, good news. Maybe we'll talk about that in

00:32:52   a bit. Should we take a break? Let's take a break, Myke. I'm very excited about this

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00:34:26   Alright, so I am out in front of my house, gonna retake my inboard, out for a spin.

00:34:36   I was not really a skateboarder before this, but the inboard gives you all the confidence

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00:35:52   the world, so go check it out right now, you won't regret it. Our thanks to Inboard Technology

00:35:56   for their support of this show and Relay FM. How you doing, you feeling good?

00:36:00   A little sweaty now, but pretty good.

00:36:03   Pretty good.

00:36:04   Ah man, I have one of these things sitting right here next to me.

00:36:06   It just arrived.

00:36:07   I'm so excited to try it out.

00:36:09   Very excited.

00:36:10   All right, so Apple results.

00:36:13   I mean, I want to touch on this because I feel like we have to touch on this, right?

00:36:17   Because it's a big thing, but it's never massively exciting, but I want to run through the numbers

00:36:23   just so people can hear the numbers in case they've missed it.

00:36:26   I feel like it is our duty to report on it.

00:36:28   And then there's a couple of areas that I wanted to touch on a little bit with you to

00:36:31   get your opinion. So here are the headlines. You ready?

00:36:35   I am ready.

00:36:36   $53.3 billion in revenue up from $45.4 billion year on year. $11.5 billion in profit up from

00:36:45   $8.7 billion. $41.3 million iPhone sold up from $41.0 million the year before. $11.6

00:36:56   million iPad sold just up from 11.4 million, 3.7 million Mac sold down from 4.3 million,

00:37:05   the only thing that's down in this list, $9.55 billion in services revenue up from 7.27 billion.

00:37:15   So basically everything is up except Macs, which is down and that's year on year, not

00:37:22   from previous quarters. We'll get to the Mac stuff.

00:37:25   thing to touch on iPhone it's the only the only thing that's really important

00:37:29   honestly in the earnings report so it's a couple of things here so that is not a

00:37:36   decline it is an increase but a small increase it's like a very minuscule

00:37:42   increase really right like 0.3 million units sold so the sales didn't go down

00:37:49   but they are mostly flat but that goes against a lot of the reports that the

00:37:53   iPhone X is dead. Where it gets even more interesting is that revenue went up 20%

00:38:02   year on year. So not only is the iPhone X selling, it's also selling

00:38:09   greater than the other phones. ASP is up, so the average selling price is up year on year.

00:38:15   So it shows that people are buying the most expensive phone, even though maybe Apple isn't

00:38:21   doing gangbusters on the amount that they're selling, they're still saying an

00:38:25   incredible amount of phones and people are buying the more expensive ones.

00:38:29   Right, and in a world where Apple may be reaching or being near to reaching market

00:38:35   saturation with their phone, the way you have growth is that average selling

00:38:41   price moving up. And it's so interesting, I feel like every quarter since the

00:38:44   iPhone X has been out, right before the release some analyst says "oh hey the 8

00:38:50   has knocked the 10 off the top. They're selling more 8's than anything else and

00:38:54   we saw that last quarter, we saw this quarter and Apple really takes that head

00:39:00   on and says no the iPhone 10 is the best-selling iPhone and the fact has

00:39:04   been the best-selling iPhone ever since we launched it. And I think that says a

00:39:10   couple things. I think one some of us, I'll count myself in this, were a little

00:39:13   nervous that the price was gonna drive some people away and it turns out that

00:39:18   that does not seem to be the case. It seems to be that either the iPhone X

00:39:21   because it has a new design or new technology, something about it makes

00:39:25   people willing to pay. It's a really good looking phone. It is really good looking and if you

00:39:30   look, I actually just saw a friend's 8 last night and handled it for a second.

00:39:35   It's like this feels old, like it feels like a 6. The 8 is a great phone and

00:39:40   that's the phone I tell most people to buy and people ask me for advice.

00:39:43   but it's that old body style. It's the last of its kind, more than likely,

00:39:49   and it shows a little bit. And so I think people are drawn to the X. What would be

00:39:53   interesting for me to see, say that the iPhone X and X Plus, you know, whatever

00:40:01   the next ones are, right, if they retain this price point, will the ASP hold

00:40:08   steady? Will it go up if the Plus is even more? Like, where is the ceiling? Have

00:40:13   Have they met the ceiling except that the new design is so exciting people are willing

00:40:16   to spend a little bit more one time?

00:40:18   Is this the new normal?

00:40:19   That will be something to look at in the future.

00:40:22   What that average selling price does, once these old world phones, you know with home

00:40:28   buttons and chins and foreheads, once those kind of phase out of the line, do we go back

00:40:35   to a world where the ASP is lower?

00:40:38   Can Apple continue to charge these premiums if all the phones look like this?

00:40:42   questions right because what's so interesting about this phone cycle is

00:40:44   that they've broken every single pattern that they had. There was not a 7s there

00:40:52   was an 8. It's the first time they've had two kind of two flagships right that

00:40:57   they had three new phones in total the 8 the 8 plus and the 10. This is new

00:41:01   territory and if rumors are to believed this year is going to be just as nutty

00:41:07   with different things coming in at different sizes and price points so I'm

00:41:11   I'm curious to see how this holds up and if anything can really hurt Apple financially

00:41:19   like from a stock perspective it'll be this iPhone ASP sliding back down.

00:41:24   So here's the thing, I agree with you right, proof is in the next revisions right like

00:41:30   what happens with the new phones.

00:41:32   Now the rumors suggest all new phones right like all new look, all new phones right which

00:41:38   is exciting.

00:41:39   Yeah.

00:41:40   I think Apple are very confident because their guidance is $60-62 billion for the next quarter.

00:41:47   So the beginning of the iPhone quarter.

00:41:49   It's not their biggest quarter of the year, right?

00:41:51   That's Q1.

00:41:52   Well, that depends too when the iPhone goes on sale.

00:41:54   There are times where the iPhone is basically the last week of the quarter so it doesn't

00:41:58   make necessarily a big impact.

00:42:00   It must be making a difference because they're expecting a very big jump.

00:42:06   They're expecting a basically $10 billion jump year on year.

00:42:09   It's all new Macs, I got new Macs coming man.

00:42:12   I have a good point that I'm trying to make here.

00:42:14   I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

00:42:15   They're expect-- so year on year for Q4 2017 to Q4 2016,

00:42:24   so when the iPhone debuted, well, kind of,

00:42:27   the new iPhones went on sale, let's say,

00:42:29   because I don't think the 10 was involved in that one.

00:42:31   It was a $6 billion year on year increase that they did.

00:42:36   Their guidance is $10 billion, potentially,

00:42:39   And Apple always comes under their guidance,

00:42:41   or at least has a very good history of that.

00:42:42   So they're, I mean, so we can expect, I don't know,

00:42:45   like an 11, 12 billion dollar increase year on year.

00:42:49   - They think something is gonna be a big deal this fall.

00:42:51   - They're very confident in the iPhone.

00:42:53   So I mean, 'cause it has to be the iPhone,

00:42:54   so nothing else can generate that sort of money.

00:42:56   - Air power.

00:42:57   (laughing)

00:42:59   - No, I mean, we're so one to every single person

00:43:01   who has an iPhone. - On the planet.

00:43:02   - That's a lot of money.

00:43:04   So, whilst I appreciate the jokes,

00:43:07   That was the point now wanted to make like, you know, it's a really good point Myke and and you're right

00:43:12   Apple is conservative when they give that guidance because when companies lose value it's when they miss their guidance and

00:43:19   Apple plays that a little safely. Yeah, I think we can expect all the phones will go on sale in September this time around

00:43:25   They're not gonna wait for I think so one

00:43:27   I don't think they ever wanted to wait until November for the time. It just took longer than it than they had so

00:43:33   That's that's kind of where I think that like big things are gonna happen and and yes

00:43:37   I agree if the ASP changes it would be a shame for them

00:43:40   But I think they're gonna do so much money and so many units sold

00:43:43   That that will be forgotten about even if it goes down right like I think that they will they will absolutely knock it out of

00:43:50   the park with

00:43:51   the the raw numbers

00:43:53   So that's the the iPhone 10 was a success, right?

00:43:57   Apple weren't lying when they were telling I calls that it was like the best-selling phone

00:44:02   It's so interesting to me, like, especially Bloomberg, they publish these articles like

00:44:07   an hour before that is their guidance.

00:44:10   And recently it's been like really wrong every time.

00:44:16   And I think that they need to spend some time thinking about that.

00:44:19   Like, do they really want those page views an hour before or a day before or whatever

00:44:23   about the iPhone X is dying?

00:44:25   Well the game is, if you're right, you're a genius and if you're wrong, it gets buried

00:44:29   in the other news.

00:44:30   It is always funny to me, I follow a couple of industry analysts on Twitter, not too many

00:44:33   because I can't take too much of it, but a couple. And it's funny to me when they're

00:44:37   like, "Apple said it was this billion. My estimate was this." And it's like, "Are you

00:44:41   just trying to show how smart you are? I don't understand." It's okay. You don't have to

00:44:46   tell me. It's fine. I can look it up if I need to. But they're like six different tweets

00:44:52   of every different line and it's like, "I was $100,000 off. I guess that's important.

00:44:58   I guess that's what people pay them to do.

00:45:00   But as someone who's not in that world, it always seems funny to me.

00:45:03   It's like, look how smart I am.

00:45:05   But I guess that's their job, to show how smart they are?

00:45:08   I don't know.

00:45:09   It's a job.

00:45:10   It's a strange thing.

00:45:11   We should try that in the analyst stuff.

00:45:13   I guess we do it, but not with numbers, right?

00:45:15   No.

00:45:16   And I want to talk about a point Jason made in his article about that in a second.

00:45:19   But we're pretty product focused.

00:45:23   Let's talk about the iPad for a second.

00:45:24   I think there's some interesting stuff here.

00:45:26   revenue and units if you look at the quarter averages are stable like yep it

00:45:33   seems like the iPad is out of its dive and has landed at 4.9 billion dollars a

00:45:40   quarter you know 11 billion units looking at four quarter averages the ASP

00:45:45   though is down and I think that's a I guess a pretty easy thing to explain

00:45:49   this time is that that $329 iPad they sold a bunch of them this quarter

00:45:55   probably the early part of the quarter to schools.

00:45:58   And now just like to regular consumers

00:46:00   and the iPad Pro is now over a year old

00:46:03   and I expect the ASP on the iPad

00:46:05   is very tied to new models.

00:46:08   Maybe more so, well, maybe even more so

00:46:12   than other parts of Apple's business

00:46:14   because I think, I don't know,

00:46:16   like something about the iPad,

00:46:17   people don't upgrade as often,

00:46:18   so it's like they wait until something new

00:46:20   and you see these spikes, but--

00:46:22   Plus in the category, the price delta is huge.

00:46:26   - Yeah.

00:46:27   - Right, it's like the pros are like two to three times

00:46:30   more expensive than the models below.

00:46:33   - And you have that in the Mac,

00:46:34   but the Mac's a much smaller business.

00:46:36   - Yeah.

00:46:37   - So it's not as noticeable.

00:46:38   - So I wanna compare this with the Mac

00:46:41   because the iPad has stability

00:46:44   and it's been stable for about a year,

00:46:45   which, and if you look at the last year,

00:46:48   I think what we're seeing now is Apple has finally found

00:46:52   the stability in the iPad line because the pros were doing really great and then they

00:46:58   weren't going to have pros come out in June so they released the cheaper iPad for schools

00:47:04   and etc which has kept the iPad line stable.

00:47:08   So if they keep following it along this route the iPad line remains stable.

00:47:13   The Mac is down probably because there were no new Macs in June but that shows that that

00:47:17   That line, that market, that part of their business, they haven't got the stability in.

00:47:24   Because if the 329 iPad didn't come out when it did, then the iPad line would be down because

00:47:30   they didn't have any new pros.

00:47:32   So the stability in the line is coming from having a good strategy.

00:47:36   And I think, just even looking at the face of it right now, I can't imagine many people

00:47:39   would disagree with me, hardware strategy-wise right now, the iPad is stronger than the Mac.

00:47:45   Like where Apple is kind of putting their, like with what they're releasing, the strategy

00:47:51   seems, like people in the iPad users are not going crazy right now because of X going wrong

00:47:57   in the hardware, right?

00:47:58   Like, maybe that happens in September, depending on where the smart connector goes, but like

00:48:03   just kind of like a hardware strategy perspective, what's being released is making people happy

00:48:08   and it's coming at the right time.

00:48:10   And that is not happening for the Mac, right?

00:48:13   Like the MacBook Pros were met with a bunch of problems again.

00:48:17   What the heck is happening with the MacBook Air?

00:48:19   What is happening with the MacBook?

00:48:21   Why is it still the same?

00:48:22   Why is it still so expensive?

00:48:24   Where is the Mac Mini?

00:48:25   Where's the Mac Pro?

00:48:26   Like okay, where's the new 5K iMac?

00:48:29   All of this stuff doesn't seem to be on any kind of stable flow, where the iPad, even

00:48:36   Even though we only have like two years of this happening, seems to be on a stable flow.

00:48:44   So I think there are a couple things to unpack here.

00:48:46   I think the distinction you've drawn between the iPad and Mac release cycles is an important

00:48:51   one, where the iPad now is a sort of a TikTok release where you have consumer and then you

00:48:56   have professional and then you have consumer and the demand swings based on age but then

00:49:04   the other product is there to pick up the slack. I think is what you're

00:49:07   saying. I think that makes a lot of sense for the iPad. I think it explains what

00:49:11   we're seeing. The Mac on the other hand has never really had that sort of

00:49:16   cadence to its release and maybe they should look at that because it's working

00:49:19   for the iPad. But I think there's really two things that have impacted the Mac.

00:49:24   Like you said, nothing new in June. The new MacBook Pros were I believe out of

00:49:28   this quarter or at the very very end of it. I think they were out of the

00:49:32   quarter so we're not seeing these new MacBook Pros. This quarter ended in June.

00:49:36   Okay yeah so we didn't see those those numbers in this report. The lack of

00:49:44   updates, forget WWBC, but like the lack of updates to the Mac line in general

00:49:50   clearly are taking a toll where you have people who would spend money on

00:49:56   something like I'm one of them, Federico's one of them, I'm ready to buy a

00:50:00   new Mac Mini. Federico's ready to buy a Mac Mini and there's not a product for

00:50:05   us. I think there are people who are probably holding off on maybe something

00:50:11   like an iMac or even a MacBook Pro waiting for that June update didn't

00:50:15   happen. I don't know where the iMac 5k is. They they basically internally are

00:50:19   MacBook Pros. Like I don't know why those two devices aren't at least at the same

00:50:24   time. They were last year. They have been for several years. Something is going on

00:50:28   there and then of course you have I think what the biggest problem is is the

00:50:33   the consumer notebook and lots of people been talking about this I don't want to retread

00:50:37   all of it but with enough you walk in a store and you buy an iPad I don't my

00:50:43   guess is my feeling is you probably know which iPad you're gonna buy before you

00:50:48   walk in yeah I don't think you're being met with a lot of surprise no or if you

00:50:52   walk in and talk to a sales associate for five minutes you have two very clear

00:50:56   paths and you go down one. You do not have that in the Mac line right now.

00:51:01   Forget the desktops because the vast majority of Macs sold are notebooks.

00:51:05   Like just table the iMac, Mac mini, iMac Pro, Mac Pro. Just get rid of them. Just in

00:51:11   notebooks, if you walk in with $1,400 in your pocket to buy an Apple notebook, you

00:51:18   have a bunch of choices and none of them are very compelling. You have the MacBook

00:51:23   Air which has all the ports you want but is older, doesn't have a retina

00:51:28   screen, but it's cheap, it has incredible battery life, and I still think the

00:51:34   MacBook Air has an amazing reputation among consumers. I can't tell you how many

00:51:39   times people email me or in real life, you know, looking to buy a notebook and

00:51:44   the question is usually "Frey, should I just buy another MacBook Air?" and I think

00:51:49   that how has real value to people but the technology is not very good now.

00:51:53   Then you've got the one port MacBook to your point is too expensive for what it is.

00:51:59   Most people I would think would maybe struggle with having a single port or they don't want

00:52:04   to buy an adapter or they just want something bigger the 12 inch screen just isn't big enough

00:52:08   for them let alone power.

00:52:10   I think that choosing between the Air and the MacBook for a lot of people will be a

00:52:14   very difficult decision to make.

00:52:16   I think so but I think the MacBook Air wins for most people because it's a little bit

00:52:19   I mean, right? But it's ugly and old and the screen isn't retin-er- you know what I mean?

00:52:24   And then you've got this beautiful thing, but it hasn't got as many ports and it's way more expensive. Like there's like

00:52:29   Yeah, it's a difficult decision. I think between those two products. I think so and then you have the

00:52:35   13 inch where they call a MacBook Pro, but it's not really a MacBook Pro except in form. It's got two ports

00:52:43   Regular traditional function keys and

00:52:47   Again is expensive for what it is. And so if you've got $1,400 to spend on Apple notebook

00:52:52   It's a very difficult to know which is the right decision and for some people

00:52:58   None of them are the right decision right for some people what they really need is something

00:53:03   More akin to the MacBook Air, but with modern internals

00:53:07   I mean it's worse now right because I'm still looking at the page the MacBook and the MacBook Pro at the same price now

00:53:13   Mm-hmm, like that's making it even harder

00:53:16   Like, how do you choose between the two of those?

00:53:19   That's a really difficult decision to make.

00:53:22   It's really frustrating.

00:53:24   And I think, and there was a good conversation between Marco and John on the latest talk

00:53:30   show episode about this, and I agree with what they said that I think it's time for

00:53:34   Apple to basically just upend this entire end of their notebook lineup.

00:53:42   maybe that means I don't know what that means maybe it means the MacBook Air

00:53:46   goes away and the MacBook becomes $1,000 and you add a second port maybe this 13

00:53:51   inch MacBook Pro gets adjusted somehow and is you know sort of modernized in a

00:53:57   way that makes it whatever it is the clarity that was once there is gone and

00:54:03   I think that's the core problem in the Mac lineup not that the Mac Mini hasn't

00:54:09   gotten updated even though it's annoying not that the Mac Pro is still a year out

00:54:12   but that's annoying. Not that the new 5k iMacs aren't out but that's annoying. The

00:54:16   core problem and I think where they are hurting is they are losing consumers

00:54:21   because consumers don't have a good option. And so people I think a

00:54:28   lot of people feel like to get a good Mac notebook they got to buy that entry

00:54:32   level touch bar machine which is $1799. At that point people just go buy a PC.

00:54:37   People like you and me and people like our listeners, I will ride the Mac all the way down because I want to run Mac OS as long as possible.

00:54:46   There are always people online who are running these comments about like, "Well, the new MacBook Pro still doesn't work for me for XYZ so I'm just going to go buy a Surface Book or something."

00:54:57   That doesn't work for me because I want to run Mac OS.

00:54:59   I genuinely have no idea how people can make that decision.

00:55:02   like I think people do that.

00:55:04   I'm sure they do, but like I cannot get in the mindset of like that that Mac is too expensive.

00:55:10   I'll just go buy a Dell like they're so different. It's like, oh, that car doesn't work. I'll just go

00:55:16   buy a motorbike. Right. Like, yeah, that there are so many things that are different between those

00:55:21   two. Like I know people do it. I totally understand it. But like in the same way, like I can't I can't

00:55:26   fathom someone who's just like, oh, I use Windows PCs. That MacBook looks pretty. I'll buy one of

00:55:32   of those. It really like it boggles my mind. It's like I'm just gonna go and buy

00:55:35   this one device instead of the other. It's really strange. Just as an aside I'm

00:55:41   at Apple.com/Mac/compare and the first bullet point for Mac mini is

00:55:45   highly energy efficient. Because electricity technology has moved on since

00:55:54   the Mac was last updated. We got rid of the hand crank in the back. So I hope that

00:56:00   Apple has an answer to this whether it is removing a model and changing the

00:56:05   pricing or like ideally I think for for me would be to have a new consumer model

00:56:15   that replaces the air and you change some of the branding so it makes sense

00:56:19   and you have a machine like a Mac for the masses and Apple doesn't have one

00:56:24   right now. Of course you have the pro angst around the MacBook Pro I think

00:56:29   will know next quarter if these MacBook Pros solve that or not. I think they probably will

00:56:33   for most people because they're a lot faster, the keyboard seems to be mostly fixed, and

00:56:36   at least if people are like me, I've just given in to the USB-C lifestyle and I bought

00:56:41   a bunch of cables on Amazon. Maybe that initial angst has faded and we just have come to accept

00:56:48   that these machines are what they are. Time will tell with that, but it really feels like

00:56:52   that consumer Mac notebook quagmire is catching up with them.

00:56:57   Yeah, and here's the thing, I don't believe I'm smarter than the people making these decisions

00:57:02   at Apple. I know they know this and I'm very confident. I'm not saying that you've

00:57:06   heard it from me.

00:57:07   No man, we saved them. They listened to the show and they're going to turn it around.

00:57:09   Ah, do you know what? We didn't even notice that point in our earnings report. So I'm

00:57:15   really confident that they have an answer to this. We just haven't seen it yet and for

00:57:20   whatever reason, because things happen, we run companies, we know how things get delayed,

00:57:24   right?

00:57:25   Yeah.

00:57:26   up much different scale than we are, things get delayed all the time.

00:57:30   This is just what it's like when you run a company.

00:57:32   And I'm sure that there's just something going on right now, which is kind of

00:57:36   throwing things out of whack a little bit and it will be taken care of.

00:57:39   Like I believe that, I genuinely do.

00:57:41   But all I'm doing is like, I'm looking at these numbers and like, this is why I

00:57:46   think it's happening, right?

00:57:47   Like I'm trying to apply consumer thinking to the fact that people aren't

00:57:52   buying the Macs as much as that because the Mac going down year on year is a rare, rare

00:57:59   thing to happen. I saw some statistic of like how many consecutive quarters it's been or

00:58:05   something right like where it's been up and there hasn't been a problem. It going down

00:58:10   is a concern. It doesn't matter what the reason is. It shows something bad has happened and

00:58:16   for whatever reason that was it's something that Apple doesn't want which means that they

00:58:21   they will have a thing that they think is going to fix it.

00:58:23   So that's kind of what I see on this.

00:58:25   And it's not all doom and gloom, like the average selling price is up.

00:58:30   Probably because there's not a good consumer option if people buy the MacBook or the MacBook

00:58:33   Pro.

00:58:34   But yeah, clearly something needs to give.

00:58:37   And I'm, to borrow a term from you, I'm choosing to be optimistic about it because I believe

00:58:42   Apple at their word that they care about the Mac.

00:58:44   And caring about the Mac means caring about the MacBook and the notebook line.

00:58:48   And so I think they'll get it straightened out.

00:58:49   I just hope it's sooner rather than later.

00:58:52   - I think we'll have some really good Mac stuff

00:58:54   by the end of the year, I do.

00:58:55   - I hope so.

00:58:56   - I do.

00:58:57   I mean, I don't think they're gonna give you

00:58:58   the keyboard you want,

00:58:59   but I think there's gonna be some updates to the line.

00:59:02   I think that there's gonna be some--

00:59:04   - Well, like the Mac Mini thing,

00:59:05   like my home entertainment Mac Mini

00:59:07   is like holding on by a thread.

00:59:08   But my wife has a first generation MacBook from 2015

00:59:12   and it's out of warranty now and it is a bit of a dog.

00:59:16   And so I would like to replace that with something for her.

00:59:19   I was thinking about even like the two port MacBook Pro.

00:59:21   It's not much bigger, much heavier.

00:59:23   It lives docked with a screen.

00:59:25   So I thought, well maybe that'll be nice.

00:59:27   But I'm holding off because I don't want to do something and then there'd be like an obvious

00:59:30   answer in two months time.

00:59:33   So I feel like people are in that situation.

00:59:38   Some people are just holding on to see what happens.

00:59:40   And they miss back to school.

00:59:42   That's come and gone.

00:59:44   But maybe they can have it for the holiday season.

00:59:47   You wanted to make a point about services?

00:59:49   I do.

00:59:50   It's just been a thought that's been like rattling around in my mind and Jason wrote

00:59:55   and his, which is linked, we're pulling all these numbers from, he wrote this paragraph

01:00:01   about services that was really interesting.

01:00:04   And the gist of it was, you know, Jason, I think like the two of us are very product

01:00:08   focused in our Apple coverage and analysis.

01:00:12   And like actually like Twitter yesterday, like I just have quit reporting on quarterly

01:00:16   earnings because I just I don't find it interesting and it's time-consuming and

01:00:20   but he said this and it really popped out at me I'm just gonna I'm gonna read

01:00:24   for a second so forgive me but the discussion of services especially in a

01:00:29   financial context is essentially a conversation about how Apple can grind

01:00:33   more money out of every single person who uses an iPhone iPad and Mac and I

01:00:39   think he hit on what's been bothering me about services the last couple of

01:00:44   quarters it's great to see it growing you know it's Apple talks about Apple

01:00:48   music subscribers but also in there you have iCloud paid subscriptions I people

01:00:52   purchasing more storage I don't know the breakdown between those two things but

01:00:56   it's in there somewhere and that works the Apple music thing is doesn't fall

01:01:02   into this category right like if you want to pay for streaming music Apple

01:01:05   has a good product I use it you use it I'm very happy with it but the services

01:01:10   that fall into the category of,

01:01:13   hey, you're out of iCloud space

01:01:16   'cause we give you five gigs.

01:01:17   That's where this idea of grinding people to a fine dust,

01:01:23   that's really where it bugs me.

01:01:24   And it may be too that I've had several conversations.

01:01:27   I have a text message right now from my brother-in-law

01:01:30   who his wife's phone is out of iCloud space

01:01:34   and he thought he paid for it

01:01:35   but I think he just paid for it on his account.

01:01:36   They don't have a family plan.

01:01:37   I'm gonna go fix it for them this weekend.

01:01:40   People run into this and I still believe Apple should up the 5GB plan, but the flip side

01:01:46   of that coin is, well if they do, their services revenue goes down because people pay to have

01:01:52   more space because they're out of space because 5GB is pathetic.

01:01:56   There's just something in there that makes me uncomfortable because it's not a consumer

01:02:02   first, consumer friendly thing.

01:02:06   Apple generally is pretty consumer friendly.

01:02:08   We complain about a lot of stuff, but at the heart of it, I think Apple's a company that really cares about its users.

01:02:12   But this is like a big stick in that eye to say, well, not not everywhere.

01:02:17   Is that unfair? No, because it's weird, right?

01:02:21   It's not unfair. It is a weird thing.

01:02:24   It's like the conversation of, oh, we all would love them to change the default space or make the iCloud stuff cheaper.

01:02:30   So they can't they cannot do it because their stock price will go down.

01:02:35   Now, if they care about that, it depends what they care about most.

01:02:38   I mean, they can do it, but the stock price will go down.

01:02:39   So it's up to them, really, isn't it?

01:02:41   Because so much of the share price right now is focused on the growing market,

01:02:46   like whatever they're growing in.

01:02:47   And they're not really growing anything else significantly.

01:02:50   Services is the thing they're growing in.

01:02:52   There is a huge TV shaped elephant in the room, right?

01:02:55   Which is even kind of just like openly discussed on the conference call.

01:03:01   Yeah.

01:03:02   Seems just like we have some stuff that we'll work on in the area.

01:03:05   we've hired some executives, we're really excited.

01:03:08   I mean, it's because me and Jason talk about this a lot

01:03:10   on Upstream, which is a segment on upgrade,

01:03:13   where we look at kind of streaming services

01:03:17   and the news that's going on within them.

01:03:20   And Apple can't hide what they're doing

01:03:22   because that's not how the entertainment industry works.

01:03:25   People announce when the agents announce

01:03:29   to Variety and Deadline and The Hollywood Reporter

01:03:33   when a new show has been picked up by Apple,

01:03:35   because that's how the industry works.

01:03:38   So everyone knows they're working on a service.

01:03:41   Apple even announced their deal with Oprah, right?

01:03:44   Like, and TV stuff was part of that.

01:03:47   And that's kind of what was spoken about in the call,

01:03:48   Oprah was spoken about in the call,

01:03:50   'cause it's the biggest deal that they've done.

01:03:52   And this is another part of the services revenue,

01:03:55   but this is an add-on, this is a thing you don't need.

01:03:58   But it's the problem when there's stuff that you need

01:04:01   for your devices and they're charging you for them and they're not changing the prices

01:04:04   of them probably because it will impact this part of the earnings report.

01:04:08   Yeah, and I wonder if I can be optimistic in saying that if Apple Video, whatever it's

01:04:13   called, is successful and they're just raking in money, then they can give a little bit

01:04:21   on the iCloud storage.

01:04:22   It depends.

01:04:23   It depends on the opinions of who makes those decisions because if the person that makes

01:04:27   that decision is like, well, why don't we just keep all this money as opposed to making

01:04:32   some...

01:04:33   And the thing is, it's like, it's not a bad thing.

01:04:36   It's business.

01:04:37   Like it's not...

01:04:38   Oh yeah, Apple's not a charity and I'm not saying they should run like one, but in a

01:04:42   portfolio of products that are generally pretty customer friendly, this stands out to me.

01:04:48   Right, but then it's like historically customer friendly.

01:04:51   Still customer friendly, but has been in the past.

01:04:54   Depends on making those decisions.

01:04:55   I'm not trying to point a finger at Tim Cook here because I don't know if he's the one

01:05:00   making these decisions.

01:05:01   But someone is, and we don't know if that person's opinion is different to the people

01:05:06   that came before them.

01:05:08   Mm-hmm.

01:05:09   Earnings, kids.

01:05:11   See, we always say this.

01:05:13   There's always some interesting stuff in there some way.

01:05:15   There is.

01:05:16   But it's funny.

01:05:17   In these conversations, we're talking about products.

01:05:20   Yeah, well, because the earnings shine information on the products.

01:05:23   So the reason I feel like I'm the only person in our Frank group that is genuinely interested

01:05:29   in the earnings.

01:05:30   Everybody else kind of reports on them or begrudgingly does something with them.

01:05:34   Like, "Oh, I hate doing this every time."

01:05:35   But I find it genuinely interesting because I find out how many products are sold.

01:05:40   That tells me what people are buying.

01:05:42   It tells me what people are interested in.

01:05:43   Well, except for the Apple Watch.

01:05:46   It's still on a basis chart.

01:05:47   Well, they don't give us numbers, but they give us data.

01:05:51   But more than ever, it's a good thing to know.

01:05:55   So I find it interesting.

01:05:57   I look forward to getting this information because it's the only information that we

01:06:01   get.

01:06:02   So I like it.

01:06:03   Even though, yes, I know it can be boring to look at four quarter rolling averages and

01:06:08   year over year projections and stuff.

01:06:10   But I also kind of like some of that stuff.

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01:07:24   So tell me about your second MacBook Pro. Do you like it?

01:07:27   I do. Yeah, so I purchased an entry model, we talked about this, and I very quickly realised

01:07:33   that was not what I should have done.

01:07:36   You have such poor grasp of your own desires for purchases.

01:07:41   It's true. Well, so this time I was like, oh, I don't want to spend that much money.

01:07:45   - No, I know. - So let me cheap out.

01:07:46   - No, but I think-- - Cheap out at $1,800.

01:07:49   - You can't cheap out on yourself.

01:07:50   Yeah, yeah, it's like, woo.

01:07:52   (laughing)

01:07:53   - Let me spend just shy of two grand

01:07:56   instead of just over it.

01:07:57   So anyway, so I ended up with a pretty loaded one,

01:07:59   i7, 16 gigs of RAM, terabyte SSD, and it's really good.

01:08:03   No keys have fallen off yet, so I got that going for me.

01:08:07   Actually, so I used a backpack for this trip

01:08:10   that I haven't used in a while,

01:08:10   and I found the iKey that had fallen off

01:08:13   my 2016 MacBook Pro.

01:08:15   So I think again it framed like a shadow box or something.

01:08:18   - Did you get scared for a second?

01:08:19   Did you think your iKey had fallen off?

01:08:21   - I did, I was like oh you gotta be kidding me.

01:08:23   (laughing)

01:08:25   - Already?

01:08:25   - Come on, it's brand new.

01:08:29   So anyway, the aforementioned video I edited

01:08:33   on this machine in Final Cut Pro.

01:08:36   I did some stuff in Logic.

01:08:37   I took everything that I could throw at it

01:08:40   and it was totally fine.

01:08:42   What has me most excited about this

01:08:44   is that I can have a quad core 13 inch machine.

01:08:47   I prefer 13 inches while traveling

01:08:51   'cause it's such a lot less bulky and easier, lighter.

01:08:54   But dual core just doesn't really cut it

01:08:57   when it comes to my sorts of workloads

01:09:00   as like a audio professional and like video amateur.

01:09:03   You know, I need horsepower.

01:09:06   I didn't wanna say video professional.

01:09:08   I don't think I am one of those yet, but.

01:09:10   I think it works. Yeah, please like and subscribe. I mean it's really nice.

01:09:17   Battery life seems pretty good. I didn't include that in my ride up

01:09:21   because I don't really know for sure but it seemed like I used it

01:09:26   some in the airport just doing like admin stuff and it was hard to like wear

01:09:30   the battery down. Rendering and stuff in Final Cut was you know what I

01:09:37   I expected. The iMac Pro has ruined me in a degree because very few computers are

01:09:41   faster than this one that Apple sells but it way faster than my 2015. The thing

01:09:47   that really impresses me about this machine and it impressed me about the

01:09:52   iMac Pro when I got it is the disk speed. Like these SSDs are so fast and that

01:09:59   makes everything faster like having footage you need to import or you know

01:10:06   APFS does some of this right moving things around but like just anytime you have to touch the file system

01:10:11   It feels like it's instant and that makes just everything better

01:10:16   Apple's really I think it's I don't think it's talked about as much they're really killing it in

01:10:21   SSD territory it's expensive if you need, you know, two or four terabytes, but

01:10:27   That t2 chip and the modules they're using really scream and that that makes everything happier

01:10:35   Yeah, I mean it definitely sounds like this is the machine that you're looking for for

01:10:40   now.

01:10:41   I think it's great that you've been able to move back to a smaller size, right, with the

01:10:46   additional power, right, that you don't have to compromise the size that you want for the

01:10:52   power you need.

01:10:53   I think that's a good thing.

01:10:54   I think that's clearly, for you, the best thing that's come out of this.

01:10:58   And I don't feel, I really honestly don't feel like I'm missing out by not having a

01:11:03   a 6 core. Right. Like it's so much better than where I was and like granted this

01:11:08   this video was a 10a timeline but most of the footage except for the

01:11:13   selfie footage was 4k and you know so it was a mixed environment final cut and it

01:11:18   just blew through it and I feel like anything I would need to do on the road

01:11:22   because when I'm at home I mean the machine basically just sits on my desk

01:11:28   and I use it some like at the coffee shop or something but I'm not

01:11:32   doing production work on my laptop except when I travel and I feel like the balance is finally

01:11:36   right that can have the size that I want and it'd be powerful enough to do I need to do I don't I

01:11:41   honestly don't feel like I'm missing out by not having the 15. Yeah well that's good then right

01:11:47   like yeah I'm really happy then you get the space back you get the weight back right and yeah I mean

01:11:52   13 inch laptops I like more than 15s because 15s feel really big like they just feel really big

01:11:59   So yeah, cool. I'm pleased you're happy with it.

01:12:00   Yeah man, so far so good.

01:12:02   I bought two things on Prime Day.

01:12:05   Oh no.

01:12:07   Yeah.

01:12:07   What have you done?

01:12:09   Well no, they're good things. I bought an espresso machine, like a full-on,

01:12:13   it's called the Sage Barista Express.

01:12:14   It's like, does the whole thing. It does the grinding,

01:12:18   it extracts the espresso, does the milk thing.

01:12:22   Yeah, we've wanted this for a while and we got a pretty good deal on it for Prime Day.

01:12:26   I don't remember how much it was.

01:12:27   Is it Vittiti approved?

01:12:28   He was very, I sent him a picture and he was very, very excited about my photos.

01:12:33   Oh good, good. Then you've not made a terrible mistake.

01:12:36   He said, "That looks very Italian."

01:12:39   That's all you need?

01:12:40   Yep. That was all I wanted, really.

01:12:43   How big is this thing?

01:12:45   Not as big as it looks. It's big.

01:12:46   It looks massive.

01:12:47   It looks huge, but it's not as big as it looks. Like, it is big. It takes up a

01:12:54   pretty significant size on the counter.

01:12:57   But it's fine and I'm happy with it.

01:13:00   Like it's it's a good machine.

01:13:02   It's something we've wanted for a while.

01:13:03   I don't make and I won't make all of my coffee with this because it's like a

01:13:06   whole thing. It's very messy.

01:13:08   It's like a whole thing.

01:13:09   Yeah. This seems like I have some time.

01:13:11   I can fire this thing up.

01:13:12   It's like a weekend thing.

01:13:13   I'm I've been used I've been doing a lot of it this week because it's my new toy

01:13:16   and I'm trying to kind of get good at it.

01:13:18   Sure.

01:13:20   But I'm ultimately going to stick to my cold brew kit or my AeroPress or

01:13:24   whatever for the majority because it generates so much mess and like it's so

01:13:29   involved it takes me like steam everywhere there's coffee beans flying

01:13:33   out the time you gotta clean the milk off the steam thing there's a steam

01:13:37   hamper yep the tampers the whole thing and then you've got like a little blade

01:13:43   it's like a hole it's a big thing but what I wanted to talk about really it was

01:13:47   the fact that I bought a Roomba ooh yes because it was like

01:13:54   Look, we've wanted a Roomba for a while and there was a Prime Day deal to get the Roomba

01:14:00   960 30% off.

01:14:03   We were like, "Okay, we could use some of the wedding present money."

01:14:09   And we bought a Roomba.

01:14:10   So we have a Roomba.

01:14:13   I love the Roomba.

01:14:14   The Roomba is great.

01:14:16   The Roomba for me is like home automation at its finest because you can, if you want

01:14:23   to program it to clean on a schedule. And that means you can start it to go whenever

01:14:28   you want. This thing can be doing things like when you're not around. So like we could go

01:14:34   out and then we could just start the Roomba to go off and clean. And that is like, we

01:14:40   have so much home automation stuff, but it's typically things that we're doing when we're

01:14:44   there. All it's doing is taking a light switch from the wall and putting it with our voices,

01:14:48   right? Like it's, you know, I mean, you can set these things on timers, but I think most

01:14:52   of us, for the majority of the time, do not use automation for our home stuff.

01:14:57   Right. It's like it's making it more accessible, but it's not truly

01:15:03   automation.

01:15:03   More comfortable to use, but it's not we're not automating it except in certain

01:15:08   circumstances. Right. Like we were all talking about this a couple of days ago

01:15:12   when we were all on our various trips. You set the lights on an automation thing

01:15:15   where I sort of come on at night and go off in the morning. So it looks like your

01:15:18   home, etc, etc. Right.

01:15:21   And it has an app, of course.

01:15:23   So that's how you kind of set it off.

01:15:26   The app is OK.

01:15:27   You can tell it to clean.

01:15:29   It gives you some basic information, but it also does this thing, which is cool.

01:15:32   It shows you a report on how the cleaning went.

01:15:36   So you get a little map that the Roomba has drawn of your home.

01:15:41   Yeah, it wants your praise.

01:15:44   Well, I guess so.

01:15:45   I'll get to the like anthropomorphising of the Roomba in a minute, but

01:15:50   But it shows you this map which you can internally map to the root of your home so you can see

01:15:59   are there any rooms it's not getting and what parts of rooms is it not cleaning.

01:16:05   This little robot that goes around the home, you have to make some considerations for it

01:16:09   because there's some things it just can't do.

01:16:12   Our one right now, I find this to be unbearably cute, which is again the way we think about

01:16:17   this robot in our home right now.

01:16:19   kind of goes along the edge of the doorway and it knocks the doorstop away and then shuts

01:16:24   itself in a room, which I think is like the cutest thing in the world that the room gets

01:16:28   stuck in the bathroom. So like with any animal that you have in your home, whether that be

01:16:35   or let's say any living thing, so whether it's an animal or a child or robot, you have

01:16:42   to make some considerations for it. So like right now we're like, can we, are there different

01:16:46   like doorstops that we can get that maybe it won't close the door on its own, we're

01:16:51   not sure yet. Or like sometimes it gets all ruffled up in a rug and you have to help him

01:16:56   out because he gets all stuck in the rugs. Or you can walk around the house and find

01:17:00   like, that's not where that goes, like, ah, the Roomba moved it. Right? Which is, you

01:17:04   know, right now-

01:17:05   Who moved the HomePod?

01:17:06   Right now I have a problem that if the Roomba goes near my Wi-Fi, like my modem, whatever

01:17:12   you call it, the base station, sometimes it pulls the ethernet cable out a little bit.

01:17:18   Like "alright Roomba, we need to think about this."

01:17:20   You're being DDoSed by the Roomba.

01:17:23   It's doing something. It's like disconnecting itself from the wifi, I think. I think it's

01:17:27   trying to make an escape. So, you know, these are just things that we're just, we're going

01:17:31   to have to tweak some stuff in the home if we want this little thing to be working out.

01:17:34   Because what it's doing is, it's moving around, it's lightly bumping into things, right? That's

01:17:39   what it does. And then it kind of understands where it's got to go and it, but it bumps

01:17:43   into everything constantly, but it's not going fast enough that it does any damage. It's

01:17:47   just like lightly bumping into stuff, which again is also part of the cuteness of this

01:17:52   little machine. I find it unbearably adorable that when we turn it on, we heard dunk, dunk,

01:17:58   dunk. It's just funny as it's like bumping into every surface in our home. Um, but we

01:18:03   like it. It has Echo, Google Home and IFTTT integration. So I can say, "Hey Echo, tell

01:18:10   the Roomba to start cleaning." And it goes, "Doo doo doo," and then off it goes. And

01:18:15   you can, in the same way that like, when I thought that it might be getting stuck somewhere,

01:18:19   I asked it to stop and come back and it did. It came back and it finds this little home.

01:18:22   They have a little home that they go back to. This is like our weird robot pet now,

01:18:28   which makes me, I want to buy googly eyes for it.

01:18:30   Please.

01:18:31   I've seen people do that.

01:18:33   do that like to put googly eyes on Roombas you know and we need to give the

01:18:37   Roomba a name which we have not got yet and I have currently resisted putting

01:18:42   some kind of musical device on it to make a DJ Roomba I think the home pod

01:18:46   might kill it if I tried to put that it's really heavy you want to borrow my

01:18:52   iPod hi-fi yeah I am kill it worse that's gotta be heavier than the home

01:18:57   so like knock over furniture in your house I don't think it would be able to

01:19:01   move. But yeah it's like I really like this thing because it is doing exactly

01:19:06   what we want which is it's reducing the amount of vacuuming we need to do. Like

01:19:11   it does not eliminate the amount of vacuuming you need to do because it

01:19:14   can't get all the edges and some stuff it just won't pick up but it's reducing

01:19:20   the amount that is required. Right? Right. Yeah I think we've thought about it. I

01:19:25   think why I have been hesitant is they are a little pricey but they are you

01:19:30   know it's gonna suck up all the kids toys like you know I'd have to work out

01:19:34   a way for it to maybe it's just good at this like children just leave things on

01:19:38   the floor just the the clearance would it would never pick up anything

01:19:43   meaningful yeah yeah so you know maybe next time someone goes and sell I'll make a

01:19:48   surprise purchase but I'm glad you're enjoying it I do think things like this

01:19:53   do you know they have a a floor mopping robot now - what yes so if you don't have

01:19:58   like if you have floors that need mopping rather than yeah hoovering or vacuuming.

01:20:03   Yeah we have no carpet in our house at all. There you go. So maybe you need the mopping.

01:20:06   Although this one I'm looking on the Amazon page, we'll do hardwood. So I think it's I think it's

01:20:12   fun I think products like this are easy to put personality into. I remember a friend of mine got

01:20:17   like the first room but like when they first came out who knows how many years ago and like we just

01:20:21   all like sat around and watched it. Oh yeah. It was better than TV because like look at it go.

01:20:25   First time we set it off, I chased it around the house.

01:20:27   Look at him, look at him!

01:20:29   It was very fun for me.

01:20:30   So yeah, I'm pleased with my Roomba purchase.

01:20:34   It is, I specifically wanted this one

01:20:38   because it has the integrations.

01:20:41   Yeah.

01:20:42   Right, like I am unwilling to buy a product of this price now

01:20:48   for my home that does not integrate with smart services in some way.

01:20:51   Like I won't buy, I won't do it.

01:20:53   Like I just won't do it.

01:20:55   I think that's fair.

01:20:55   - Because I feel like it really should.

01:20:58   I mean, okay, my coffee maker doesn't,

01:21:00   but it doesn't need to.

01:21:01   It has that problem of need to pass.

01:21:03   - That's also like an experience, right?

01:21:05   Like I think there's a difference between vacuuming the floor

01:21:08   and like making fancy coffee.

01:21:10   - Yeah, 'cause you can get coffee machines

01:21:11   that have this stuff,

01:21:12   but I don't want those coffee machines, right?

01:21:15   Like they're the ones that have the pods or whatever,

01:21:17   or like the all-in-one system

01:21:18   that just spits out a coffee for you at the end.

01:21:20   But like, no, I wanna be getting the thing,

01:21:22   I'm tamping it down and doing the milk.

01:21:23   like I want to do that because that's the point of it yeah I love a lot of

01:21:28   Roomba it's a nice addition to our home good well congratulations on your robot

01:21:33   child thank you so much if you'd like to find the show notes oh you don't do this

01:21:37   bit you do this bit do it you're back I think you should I don't want to do it

01:21:41   okay if you want to find show notes this week if you want to buy a Roomba and be

01:21:46   cool like Myke hashtag Myke was Roomba so that doesn't have the same ring to it

01:21:51   We'll call it something.

01:21:52   We'll have a W at the start, right?

01:21:55   W-R-O-O-M-B-A.

01:21:56   Ooh.

01:21:57   That may be.

01:21:59   We'll see.

01:22:01   Anyways, those links are in the app you're listening to right now or on the website relay.fm/connected/203.

01:22:06   If you do visit the webpage, you can send us an email with any follow-up or feedback

01:22:15   you may have, or you can find us on Twitter.

01:22:18   Myke is there as I-M-Y-K-E.

01:22:20   You can find Myke on a bunch of shows at relay.fm/shows.

01:22:25   I promise you'll find something there that you would like.

01:22:28   You can find Federico, he's the editor-in-chief

01:22:30   of MacStories.net and he is on Twitter as v-i-t-i-c-c-i.

01:22:35   You can find me there as i-s-m-h or at 512pixels.net.

01:22:40   We'd like to thank our sponsors this week,

01:22:42   Hover, Pingdom, and Inboard Technology

01:22:45   for making this episode possible.

01:22:47   And until next time, Myke, say goodbye.

01:22:49   Cheerio!

01:22:51   Adios!