196: Live from WWDC 2018


00:00:00   [ Music ]

00:00:06   >> Good evening.

00:00:07   [ Cheering and Applause ]

00:00:13   This is a box of mystery for later.

00:00:17   Just going to leave that there.

00:00:19   Thanks for coming.

00:00:21   My name is Stephen Hackett.

00:00:22   I'm the non-British co-founder of Relay FM.

00:00:25   I'm the one -- when we're on phone calls,

00:00:28   People always ask Myke questions because they want to hear him talk. And frankly I feel

00:00:32   a little slighted by that so I get to come out first tonight.

00:00:36   Thanks for coming. As some of you know we had a bit of an adventure

00:00:40   to get here tonight with a last minute venue change.

00:00:44   And we owe a big thanks to Microsoft for making tonight possible.

00:00:48   Now I want you to give them a round of applause.

00:00:52   [ applause ]

00:00:56   Remember that Macworld, some of you remember, I know Jason Snell will remember this because he's

00:01:00   very old. There was a

00:01:04   key, he's backstage yelling at me. There was a keynote

00:01:09   where Microsoft kind of saved Apple. So Steve Jobs is on stage

00:01:13   and there's a giant Bill Gates behind him. This is like that

00:01:17   but not weird. If you haven't seen that, go look it up on YouTube.

00:01:21   It's really a trip. Before we get started,

00:01:25   I think they said it before. Put your phones on vibrate if you don't mind.

00:01:29   If you're running the iOS 12 beta that may not work so just shove it under your seat.

00:01:33   So I think we're gonna get started. We have a

00:01:37   great show planned tonight. We've got a couple different segments so you're gonna see a bunch

00:01:41   of relay people up here. But let's get started. Please welcome to the stage

00:01:45   Jason Snell and Serenity Caldwell.

00:01:49   [ applause ]

00:01:53   [applause]

00:01:57   That was 1997, Steven, 1997, Bill Gates.

00:02:00   I was 11.

00:02:02   [laughter]

00:02:04   About that for me too. Sorry, Jason.

00:02:06   [sigh]

00:02:08   You were three? That's way worse.

00:02:10   I'm waiting for somebody to say, "Who's Bill Gates?"

00:02:13   [laughter]

00:02:15   - Don't be a rescue. - Alright.

00:02:16   "Who's Steve Jobs?"

00:02:17   [laughter]

00:02:18   Somebody's gonna say that sometime.

00:02:19   Ohh.

00:02:21   [laughter]

00:02:22   Time marches on, folks.

00:02:23   Time marches on.

00:02:24   It's a little paid to be here.

00:02:25   That's true.

00:02:26   OK.

00:02:27   So thanks for joining me.

00:02:28   I want to talk a little bit, starting out,

00:02:30   about the future of the Mac.

00:02:32   Because you see, the iPad boys aren't up here yet,

00:02:34   so we can talk about the Mac.

00:02:37   I see how this works.

00:02:37   But first, I have a burning--

00:02:40   yeah, two iPads.

00:02:41   My Mac is in the sound booth doing real work.

00:02:43   Wow.

00:02:49   So I have a burning question.

00:02:51   I've thought about this a lot.

00:02:53   So there's a joke, maybe you've heard it on the shows,

00:02:56   about being in the Snell Zone.

00:02:58   What that means is that you're with Jason in person.

00:03:00   - It's true.

00:03:01   - And I've got a question.

00:03:01   What's the radius of the Snell Zone?

00:03:04   How far back in this theater does it go?

00:03:06   - You know, Earth's finest scientific minds

00:03:08   have considered this question, Steven.

00:03:10   (audience laughing)

00:03:11   And they have come to know,

00:03:13   they decided it was a really stupid question,

00:03:15   so they didn't answer it.

00:03:16   I think if you're within, if you can see me,

00:03:19   if you're within the sound of my voice,

00:03:20   you're probably in the Snell Zone.

00:03:23   Well, we are broadcasting--

00:03:24   And podcast listeners, yes.

00:03:26   Yes, the world is in the Snell Zone right now.

00:03:29   I hope you feel good.

00:03:30   That's terrifying.

00:03:32   I feel besnelled.

00:03:33   I've got the whole world in my hands right now.

00:03:37   Only for like 30 minutes.

00:03:38   OK.

00:03:39   Yeah, I got a timer going.

00:03:41   28.33.

00:03:42   Snell Zone leaves, right then.

00:03:43   28.30.

00:03:44   OK.

00:03:45   So let's talk about Mac OS.

00:03:48   They got an update this year, as it did every year.

00:03:50   Give it up for Mac OS updates.

00:03:52   [APPLAUSE]

00:03:54   Look, you have a birthday every year until you don't, Steven.

00:03:57   Don't take it for granted.

00:03:59   Man, we're so morbid tonight.

00:04:00   So dark.

00:04:01   Dark mode.

00:04:02   Let's talk about dark mode.

00:04:05   How in the world did the Mac get dark mode before iOS?

00:04:11   Bribery.

00:04:12   Bribery?

00:04:13   Angry video editors, angry designers.

00:04:16   My thought is they have that pro workflow team, right?

00:04:18   And they've got them all in edit caves,

00:04:21   working on whatever the next Mac Pro is.

00:04:23   And maybe they were all upset.

00:04:25   And they said, you got to do this or we quit.

00:04:27   And then they had to do it.

00:04:28   That's my headcanon.

00:04:29   So my question is, if there's dark mode now,

00:04:32   and logic and Final Cut Pro are already dark,

00:04:36   is there a light mode?

00:04:38   Maybe.

00:04:39   OK.

00:04:40   All right.

00:04:40   It's a philosophical question.

00:04:42   The light mode is the darkest time.

00:04:44   Or does it get darker?

00:04:45   Does Final Cut get-- can it be darker than it is now?

00:04:48   We'll find out.

00:04:49   None more Final Cut.

00:04:51   Sure.

00:04:52   Reference acknowledged.

00:04:53   Thank you.

00:04:54   They didn't, but you did.

00:04:55   I appreciate it.

00:04:56   That's a reference.

00:04:56   There'll be a Twitter account later.

00:04:58   It's fine.

00:04:58   So dark mode's a fun thing to talk about.

00:05:00   I've been running it a little bit.

00:05:02   It's really pretty.

00:05:04   But this release of Mac OS has a lot of things coming to an end.

00:05:08   So 32-bit apps, rest in peace, which also means, I guess,

00:05:13   the end of carbon.

00:05:14   I mean, they're still going to run this time.

00:05:16   They'll run this time, but this is--

00:05:17   Talk about just staying dark.

00:05:19   The ride is slowing down.

00:05:20   The ride is slowing down, and you know you've got to get off.

00:05:23   We're on the Matterhorn.

00:05:24   They have to put in the new seats.

00:05:25   Otherwise, it's just not going to run anymore.

00:05:27   Last year, they were like, just remember,

00:05:29   32-bit apps are mortal.

00:05:30   And this year, they're like, and next year

00:05:32   is when they are going to die.

00:05:34   So you have that.

00:05:34   You have OpenGL coming to a close at some point.

00:05:40   We got actual boos over OpenGL.

00:05:43   I don't know if they're booing OpenGL or booing that OpenGL dies though.

00:05:46   It's hard to tell.

00:05:49   Some old QuickTime stuff which you and Dan have written a lot about.

00:05:51   That's right.

00:05:52   Well, I mean, I was lamenting the death of the QuickTime Player, QuickTime Player 7,

00:05:56   because it's really useful, but the fact is, like, the QuickTime API, so QuickTime

00:06:02   in all but the name of the video player which they could change next year is gone.

00:06:05   Gone.

00:06:06   Gone.

00:06:07   Gone.

00:06:08   Gone, so.

00:06:09   They used to do a conference about QuickTime, Steven.

00:06:10   I know.

00:06:11   I've got a sweatshirt that says QuickTime Live on it.

00:06:13   But you know what isn't dead? The DVD player got an update.

00:06:17   64-bit DVD player, baby, but it's still a bag of hurt. It won't do Blu-rays.

00:06:22   No.

00:06:23   So why,

00:06:27   why now? Why have all this stuff changed? Why introduce iOS apps coming to the Mac a year early?

00:06:34   That's a lot of change.

00:06:36   It feels like there's a bunch of dots and maybe lines in between them. What, what do you see is all this mean, Jason?

00:06:42   Well, I think, I mean I love that Apple is being open about it, but let's be honest.

00:06:48   They know as well as we do that Steve Trout and Smith is going to disassemble everything

00:06:52   immediately, discover that there's an iOS folder inside the system folder, start taking

00:06:57   it apart, and he's already started to do that. The moment they released those developer

00:07:01   betas with those four apps that are all built based out of iOS, it was going to be obvious

00:07:06   to anyone rummaging through the file system. So they kinda, I mean they didn't have to

00:07:10   do it, but if they wanted to set the conversation and make it clear why they were doing it,

00:07:14   they needed to mention it. So, I mean, better that they do that than, like, stick their

00:07:18   fingers in their ears and say, "No, no, no, we don't know what you're talking about."

00:07:21   Pay no attention.

00:07:22   Yeah.

00:07:23   I mean, it still doesn't have a name, but...

00:07:25   Sneak peek?

00:07:26   Sneak peek.

00:07:27   Sneak peek.

00:07:28   Sneak peek.

00:07:29   So, Serenity, I know you've spent all week talking to a bunch of people, talking to a

00:07:31   bunch of developers and conference attendees. Do you have a sense on how people feel about

00:07:37   Is it a mixed bag?

00:07:38   Are people excited?

00:07:39   I know people booed OpenGL or the lack of OpenGL.

00:07:42   Don't know what's going on there.

00:07:43   - Well, I think people are really excited

00:07:44   about the DVD player, no.

00:07:45   (audience laughing)

00:07:47   I honestly, I've heard tentative optimism

00:07:50   about Project Sneak Peek and all of the excitement

00:07:53   that comes within it.

00:07:55   Not so much because I think people are really like,

00:07:57   yeah, iOS on the Mac.

00:08:00   But I think as I said to your co-founder yesterday on query

00:08:04   because you were otherwise engaged.

00:08:07   It's one of the few times where the Mac,

00:08:12   we can actually point to it and say,

00:08:13   "Hey, we get to run all of the software now."

00:08:17   iOS is still limited to just its stuff,

00:08:19   but the Mac, we develop all of our software on the Mac,

00:08:22   and now we can run all of our apps.

00:08:24   We can even virtualize CarPlay now in the Xcode simulator.

00:08:29   And even though it may not feel like a huge win to say,

00:08:32   "Oh yes, I really, really, really wanted to run my iOS app

00:08:36   "or I really wanted to play threes on my desktop,"

00:08:40   although I kinda did.

00:08:41   I think it's a potentially really good sign

00:08:46   for the future of the Mac saying,

00:08:49   "Yeah, we kind of recognize that yes,

00:08:51   "there's this opening on the consumer side,

00:08:54   "but also let's really show you

00:08:56   "that the Mac is the all-purpose tool."

00:08:58   Not that the iPad isn't great, as evidenced,

00:09:02   but the Mac is where we're currently doing

00:09:05   all of our software development.

00:09:06   And as such, it makes sense to have access

00:09:08   to all of those tools.

00:09:10   - Jason, you wrote something on Macworld this week.

00:09:14   - Oh yeah.

00:09:15   - The Mac in 2020.

00:09:16   And I don't wanna put words in your mouth,

00:09:19   but I believe what you said is all the stuff

00:09:21   that Srinidhi just said means the Mac is actually done for.

00:09:24   - Well, again, which is dark mode.

00:09:27   We're back in dark mode now.

00:09:28   - Yeah, it did take a turn though,

00:09:29   'cause I had that moment where I thought,

00:09:31   it is fantastic, I think, that you're gonna be able

00:09:33   to take the efforts of iOS developers

00:09:36   and that powerful, popular platform, that's a lot of Ps,

00:09:40   and make it available on the Mac, like that's huge.

00:09:43   And there are so many places where, as a Mac user,

00:09:45   you end up getting told, I spend eight hours a day

00:09:47   in front of an iMac Pro, you end up getting told,

00:09:49   well, there's a web browser for that,

00:09:50   or there's an Electron app for that.

00:09:52   And so having the ability to have some of these apps

00:09:56   that just are never gonna come to the Mac,

00:09:59   but they might if their developer

00:10:00   has a fairly easy way to get it over.

00:10:02   I think that's huge.

00:10:04   And so I like the idea of thinking that the Mac

00:10:06   is almost like a professional superset of iOS

00:10:09   in the future potentially.

00:10:10   Like the Mac, I think Craig Federighi said to Wired,

00:10:14   like the Mac is all of these things

00:10:16   like plugging in a bunch of monitors

00:10:18   and plugging in a bunch of hard drives

00:10:19   and ergonomics with a mouse and a keyboard

00:10:22   that iOS is not.

00:10:24   And that's all true, but where I kind of lost it

00:10:28   was the thought about the progression of iOS

00:10:30   as a platform.

00:10:32   I don't think Apple's going to stop growing and progressing

00:10:35   with iOS.

00:10:36   And the more iOS grows, the more it pushes into those areas

00:10:40   where right now the Mac is different.

00:10:42   It's part of that superset.

00:10:44   And that's my--

00:10:45   I think the open question is, where does Apple draw the line,

00:10:48   or does Apple sort of let iOS continue to progress until--

00:10:52   If the Mac is sort of in opposition to iOS,

00:10:55   it's sort of like, it's what iOS isn't.

00:10:57   What happens as iOS continues to grow?

00:10:59   Does the Mac adapt, or does the Mac become kind of more

00:11:02   and more a niche product?

00:11:03   And that's what it took a turn.

00:11:05   It was a little darker.

00:11:06   It was a little dark.

00:11:07   I mean, I think you're right.

00:11:08   I think there's some tension there,

00:11:09   because if you look at the way computers evolve,

00:11:12   we ended up with the Mac and the PC as we know them today.

00:11:15   And it seems inevitable if Apple keeps

00:11:16   pushing the iPad that it will follow that well-worn path.

00:11:20   And I struggle, because maybe I don't have a good imagination.

00:11:24   I just run a podcast network.

00:11:25   I'm not a computer scientist.

00:11:27   To see how the iPad could evolve and not

00:11:29   run into the Mac's territory, it seems inevitable.

00:11:32   Well, I think it's less about running into the Mac's

00:11:34   territory, because yes, it's already taking--

00:11:37   I can do so much more with my iPad

00:11:39   now than I could when it was released in 2010.

00:11:42   But I still think that I'm using the two

00:11:43   things for different tasks.

00:11:46   I can do the same tasks on my Mac that I do on my iPad.

00:11:49   But as the iPad is evolving, I'm using it for more very specific niche tasks that I

00:11:54   was never really able to use a Mac for.

00:11:57   All the sketching and drawing stuff that I do digitally, you know, I had Wacom tablets

00:12:01   growing up and it's not like the experience is really nothing like being able to go outside,

00:12:07   sit down under a tree and draw digitally and have the full freedom of drawing digitally.

00:12:12   And like that's, there are a whole bunch of potentials of like potential different aspects

00:12:17   that I think the iPad can hit.

00:12:19   And yes, it might touch up against the Mac, but I don't think the future is iOS versus

00:12:24   Mac.

00:12:25   I think it's how do we intertwine them and find a way to make them work in concert with

00:12:29   each other.

00:12:30   I go back to this hope that I had when the iPad was first announced, where I was like,

00:12:36   you know what would be really cool?

00:12:38   Forget this keyboard and mouse thing.

00:12:40   I want the power of a Mac, and then I want to essentially, like, this is going to date

00:12:44   me, PowerBook Duo my iPad into the Mac, right?

00:12:49   And then I have a multi-touch controller but for my iMac Pro.

00:12:53   And then I, and because of magical hardware rejiggery, both of those chips can work in

00:12:59   tandem because, you know, the hardware team at Apple is brilliant and Johnny Cerucci is

00:13:03   brilliant, and that would be magic.

00:13:05   Like, that's the future I want.

00:13:07   That is the light timeline right there.

00:13:09   Yeah, that's positive.

00:13:11   And I was gonna, I was gonna say, positive, speaking of positivity, I think you could

00:13:17   argue that the future of the Mac is much brighter today and much more interesting because if

00:13:23   you've got this influx of apps from iOS, if you think about it, those are apps that are

00:13:28   understand native touch as well as being adapted for the keyboard and the mouse. It means that

00:13:34   if Apple wanted to, it's a lot easier to get to the point where Apple made a convertible

00:13:37   device that could sort of act like a tablet with those apps but could also be a laptop.

00:13:43   And right now the Mac couldn't do that because the Mac is not built for touch.

00:13:47   But in a future scenario where a lot of the apps on the Mac are built for touch, then

00:13:52   Apple has that option.

00:13:53   And right now they say they're never going to do a touchscreen Mac because what are they

00:13:57   going to say?

00:13:58   They are?

00:13:59   They're never going to talk about a future product.

00:14:01   But it certainly opens the possibility for the Mac to, the lines to blur a little bit

00:14:05   and for the Mac to be more versatile than it is today, which is cool.

00:14:08   That's good for the Mac.

00:14:09   Well, we ended in a brighter place.

00:14:10   So let's leave it there and leave the Mac in a happy place.

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00:15:23   Microsoft, they're in town this week.

00:15:25   They've made a bunch of great stuff possible

00:15:27   for our community, AltConf, this show, ATP, the talk show.

00:15:31   They're big supporters of this community,

00:15:34   and that time of weirdness between us and Microsoft

00:15:37   as well in the past, they're great people.

00:15:40   Big thanks to Microsoft for supporting our live show,

00:15:43   for making this possible, and for supporting Relay FM.

00:15:46   (audience applauding)

00:15:49   Microsoft.

00:15:49   - Microsoft.

00:15:50   - All right, so in our few minutes left,

00:15:54   I wanna talk a little bit about the Mac App Store.

00:15:58   Another place before this week we thought was in the dark,

00:16:02   but now it has come into the light.

00:16:04   There's a Star Wars reference in there somewhere.

00:16:07   So some big apps, I think for our community the news is,

00:16:10   some big apps that people we know and trust

00:16:12   are coming back to the App Store.

00:16:14   Apps like Transmit and BB Edit left years ago,

00:16:18   coming back, announced on stage, which is pretty awesome.

00:16:22   And it seems to be that there have been some changes

00:16:24   behind the scenes that make this possible.

00:16:25   Wren, what can you say about that?

00:16:28   - Oh boy, that's a good question.

00:16:30   So from what I understand, the Mac App Store,

00:16:33   we've looked at it from a long time as,

00:16:35   oh, sandboxing is kind of evil, right?

00:16:38   Oh, it takes away everything,

00:16:40   and it takes away our ability to do things.

00:16:41   And it's true in a way in that it was definitely

00:16:45   a new way of navigating around complex security issues,

00:16:49   and it's had some ups and downs throughout the years.

00:16:52   And there are certain things that we kind of took

00:16:54   for granted as Mac apps, being able to access root,

00:16:58   for example, and say, hey, I need to modify

00:17:00   the permissions of that file.

00:17:02   And it's something that sandbox really didn't know

00:17:04   how to do or how to deal with.

00:17:07   And it sounds like that Transmit and BBEdit are-- yes,

00:17:14   I was like-- and Barebones, which is not

00:17:16   the name of the app, and Rich Segal.

00:17:18   Transmit and BBEdit are coming back to the Mac App Store

00:17:22   in part because they've figured out a way to solve this problem

00:17:26   without taking away sandboxing and solve it

00:17:28   for all developers, which is pretty cool.

00:17:30   So I don't know the nitty gritty stuff of it,

00:17:34   and we'll see probably more in the fall.

00:17:36   But it does sound pretty promising, honestly,

00:17:40   that as the platform is evolving and as the security team is

00:17:44   able to do more and more tweaks and ways to support the Mac

00:17:50   developers without taking away our security and our privacy--

00:17:53   and we've seen with Spectre and everything else

00:17:56   that the Mac is just as vulnerable to certain things

00:17:59   as any platform at this point.

00:18:02   So we really want to make sure that all of that

00:18:05   comes together.

00:18:06   But I'm pretty excited about it, honestly.

00:18:09   It may not be where it is right now,

00:18:11   but the fact that they're really putting not only some effort

00:18:14   behind it, but clearly both DevRel and the folks--

00:18:18   I'm sure this was a multi-part process to talk to Panic,

00:18:22   to talk to Barebones, to talk to a whole bunch of--

00:18:25   I'm sure there are other developers that

00:18:26   are being talked to that we haven't heard about, right?

00:18:29   They can't like, you only have a certain number of names

00:18:32   up there on that stage to preview.

00:18:34   But I don't know, I feel tentatively,

00:18:38   I'm gonna go back to my earlier statement,

00:18:39   I feel tentatively hopeful about the future

00:18:44   of the Mac and Mac software.

00:18:45   And you know, I mean, all three of us

00:18:47   kind of like love the Mac, right?

00:18:49   We have a special place in our heart for it.

00:18:52   And I'm sure many of you out in the audience

00:18:53   and people who are listening do too.

00:18:56   And it really excites me the fact

00:18:58   They're trying to actually make the Mac App Store maybe worth

00:19:01   playing in.

00:19:02   But it's not perfect yet, as we might well

00:19:05   see if we continue to talk about other Mac App Store things,

00:19:08   which I'm guessing we might.

00:19:09   There's some more things in the Google Sheet.

00:19:11   Yeah.

00:19:12   Oh, hey, look at that.

00:19:13   There's a Google Sheet.

00:19:14   It is.

00:19:14   I thought we were just making all this up.

00:19:16   Sorry, I work in the cloud team.

00:19:18   Take action, everybody.

00:19:21   So the other, I think, big App Store story--

00:19:22   it's not just the Mac, but I think

00:19:24   it's most interesting on the Mac is free trials.

00:19:29   And so I've been a little out of the loop

00:19:31   and you did air quotes.

00:19:32   So what's the fine print here?

00:19:35   - Faux free trials?

00:19:36   Well, it's basically just the app store guidelines

00:19:40   have now kind of reworded things being like,

00:19:43   well, if you would like to offer free trials,

00:19:46   you can basically do the same work around

00:19:47   that Omni did in 2016 to offer free trials

00:19:50   by basically offering a free app

00:19:52   and then saying in very bold letters, 14 day free trial,

00:19:56   and then offering your full app as an in-app purchase.

00:19:59   But for the record, as your free app,

00:20:01   you should probably have some kind of functionality.

00:20:05   That was verbatim, no.

00:20:07   But it's basically more or less what they're saying

00:20:10   is they did not give us magically here.

00:20:13   Now it's a nice little dropdown

00:20:15   if you want a free app, a paid app,

00:20:17   or a free trial and then paid app.

00:20:19   It's still kind of work in progress.

00:20:23   And part of me honestly think that that

00:20:25   is because App Store is still not convinced that enough

00:20:28   people want to use this feature.

00:20:31   So developers, users, people who buy software,

00:20:34   let's prove the Mac App Store wrong

00:20:36   and that free trials are great and really

00:20:39   should be a standard feature.

00:20:40   Use that bug reporter app.

00:20:43   But in all seriousness, this work around,

00:20:47   I'm glad that it's in the App Store review guidelines now.

00:20:49   But it really does seem like a, OK, we'll

00:20:51   do this because people have been asking for it

00:20:53   and it gives developers more guidelines.

00:20:56   But we really don't think that we

00:20:58   need to spend the development time building this

00:21:00   into our software.

00:21:01   Yeah, it's like a hack on the in-app purchase.

00:21:03   It's an in-app purchase that opens the app up.

00:21:07   And because it's an in-app purchase,

00:21:09   you can't do all sorts of things with it,

00:21:11   like share it with a family.

00:21:12   And there are all of these other issues with it.

00:21:15   But it's better than nothing.

00:21:16   and it is, yeah, it's Apple codifying, saying,

00:21:18   yeah, okay, you can do what Omni did if you really want to.

00:21:21   But it's still a little bit of a hack of the system,

00:21:24   but it's good that at least it's clear that it's allowed.

00:21:27   It's better than nothing.

00:21:28   - Yes, I am all for the Mac App Store

00:21:31   and all of the App Stores, honestly,

00:21:32   being more clear both with developers and end users.

00:21:36   I know in the earlier years of the Mac App Store,

00:21:39   we had a lot of a, like, very, not in translucence, right,

00:21:42   very much opaque rules,

00:21:45   and some people were getting through this

00:21:46   and some people weren't, and the more clarity

00:21:50   that they can offer on that, the better.

00:21:51   - Phil Schiller taking over the App Store process.

00:21:54   I mean, we saw a lot of things with App Review speeding up,

00:21:56   we saw a lot of things with changes in the iOS App Store.

00:21:59   It definitely feels like the Mac App Store

00:22:02   was kinda like, okay, we all know the iOS App Store is huge,

00:22:05   the Mac App Store is small, so priorities, got it.

00:22:08   But clearly in this last year,

00:22:10   they have been paying attention to the Mac App Store too.

00:22:13   We see it where they're going to do the editorial content

00:22:16   that they brought last year to iOS

00:22:18   is going to be on the Mac App Store

00:22:19   with the original stories that are being written

00:22:22   by a mysterious group of editors who can't

00:22:25   be named inside of Apple.

00:22:26   Mysterious.

00:22:26   And some beautiful artwork that gets commissioned.

00:22:29   And it's beautiful.

00:22:30   They're going to do that for the Mac too, which is great.

00:22:33   But if that's all they were doing, they would be--

00:22:37   they'd run out potentially pretty fast of stuff

00:22:40   to write about.

00:22:41   Because they need to also change the guidelines.

00:22:44   Change the culture.

00:22:45   And no, I'm-- yeah.

00:22:46   It's exciting to think that--

00:22:49   we always said they should just change their policies.

00:22:51   And it sounds like they're like, no, we're

00:22:52   not going to change our policies,

00:22:53   but we're going to add features that allow apps

00:22:55   to ask to have more power.

00:22:58   And that works.

00:22:59   That's great.

00:23:00   Totally.

00:23:01   One last thing I want to talk to you about.

00:23:03   My timer just changed color, so it's a good time

00:23:05   to move to this.

00:23:07   Screen time.

00:23:07   So this is not coming to the Mac.

00:23:10   since I was only at this point,

00:23:11   but I wanted to talk to you all about it.

00:23:14   It's this collection of features.

00:23:15   So a user can go in and see a weekly report

00:23:18   to see how much time they spend on Instagram, too much.

00:23:21   How much time they spend on YouTube, too much.

00:23:23   You can do limits.

00:23:24   You can say, I only want to spend

00:23:25   you know, X amount of minutes on Twitter.

00:23:29   And then after that time's up, you get a pop-up that says,

00:23:31   hey, sorry, time's up.

00:23:33   You can override that of course,

00:23:34   if you really got to see what the president's tweeting.

00:23:37   But you can obey your past self and move on with your life.

00:23:44   I find this collection of things really interesting

00:23:47   for a bunch of reasons.

00:23:48   And we talked about it on Connected a couple weeks ago.

00:23:49   Google is doing a similar thing in Android.

00:23:51   Apple said on the talk show they've

00:23:52   been working on this in a year.

00:23:53   It's not a knee-jerk thing to Google I/O.

00:23:55   But these companies are doing this.

00:23:57   And Myke said something really interesting,

00:23:59   that there is an inherent friction when

00:24:02   the maker of the device is also making things

00:24:05   so you don't use your device as much?

00:24:08   And there's a weird relationship between those two things.

00:24:13   And I'm curious, Jason, do you think that this is gonna be

00:24:16   a feature a lot of people use that's gonna really impact

00:24:18   the way we use our devices, or it's something

00:24:20   that we all feel bad about ourselves

00:24:21   and then just turn it off and move on?

00:24:23   - Well, it's funny, they're not gonna talk about it

00:24:24   in this context, but it's very clear from some of the charts

00:24:27   that this is using a lot of the same concepts

00:24:29   as from their health stuff, in terms of monitoring

00:24:33   your usage. And I think like the health stuff, it's all about, I imagine Apple employs psychologists

00:24:39   to talk about this sort of thing, right? That would be an interesting job. But the idea

00:24:43   of how do you motivate people? And this is not going to stop somebody who wants to use

00:24:47   their phone all the time from doing that. It's all about like the power of knowledge,

00:24:52   self-knowledge, that idea that I didn't realize I spent that much time and now that I know

00:24:57   that I spend 10 hours a day on Twitter, I can maybe set a limit at nine hours and see

00:25:02   how I do or whatever.

00:25:04   How much time are you spending on Twitter every day?

00:25:06   I don't know.

00:25:07   Have you installed the beta yet?

00:25:08   I don't use iOS 12 yet.

00:25:10   It's a lot probably.

00:25:11   It's probably a lot.

00:25:12   Although I would also like to-- can we put educational apps in

00:25:15   and say you really should spend more time using this app?

00:25:17   Like a little--

00:25:19   Some positive--

00:25:19   Do the other--

00:25:20   It's a 2.0 feature I'd love to do.

00:25:22   It's like, you have spent five hours on Twitter.

00:25:24   Would you like to learn a new language with Memrise instead?

00:25:28   Here, look at our collection on the App Store.

00:25:30   You could have learned this many words in Italian if you hadn't been on Twitter.

00:25:34   Oh God, yeah.

00:25:35   Don't tell me the procrastination thing.

00:25:37   But like Jason said, I really do think they're following the health model and to good extent.

00:25:42   There was I think some concern when health first came out that they were going to barrage

00:25:45   you with notifications of like, "Did you know that you haven't been on a walk yet

00:25:50   today?"

00:25:51   And the Apple Watch does this to a certain extent, but when it comes to health itself

00:25:55   on the iPhone, it's very passive and screen time is the same way.

00:25:59   time, when you install the iOS 12 beta, hypothetically, if you choose to do so, when you pull it up,

00:26:06   it's not like, "Hello, welcome to screen time, welcome to your new managed portal, we're

00:26:10   going to do all of this for you, you are not allowed to use your phone ever again." No,

00:26:15   it's a setting, right? It is a small setting that you have to go in and manually play with

00:26:21   and enable. And I think Apple does this in part because they want to offer these features,

00:26:26   You know, Craig compared it, or was it Jaws last night, who compared it to weight loss?

00:26:32   If you want to lose weight or if you want to track calories, and you actually want to

00:26:38   do it, that's when you opt in and grab the app.

00:26:40   But no one shoving a calorie counter in front of your face without your consent is going

00:26:45   to make you want to lose calories.

00:26:47   It's just going to make you angry at this person being like, "Why are you doing this?

00:26:51   Why is this thing in my face?"

00:26:53   So I really actually appreciate that Apple is offering such detailed and comprehensive

00:26:57   tools without necessarily throwing them constantly on the screen.

00:27:02   Yeah, you have to want to change.

00:27:06   But you have to be armed with information that we don't currently have.

00:27:09   So now we'll have it.

00:27:11   And I think that's great.

00:27:12   I've used a time tracking app on my Mac and had that moment of realization of like, what

00:27:17   did I do for that hour?

00:27:18   Did I just stare at the computer for an hour and just go into a fugue state?

00:27:22   - Yes, perhaps I did.

00:27:25   It's not good, it's not good to discover that.

00:27:26   - No, did I really just--

00:27:27   - So you want that, yeah, self-realization.

00:27:29   Was I looking at that webpage for that long?

00:27:31   - Mm-hmm, no.

00:27:33   - There's a lot of time on Twitter, all Twitter.

00:27:35   - Yeah, probably.

00:27:36   - I'm excited about it,

00:27:37   there's some parental control stuff as well,

00:27:39   so like, you know, if you've got kids with an iPad

00:27:40   or an iPhone or something, you can--

00:27:42   - You can see how much they're--

00:27:43   - You can see how much they're doing, and--

00:27:45   - Or a husband.

00:27:46   - Yeah.

00:27:47   (audience laughing)

00:27:48   I think, I know in my household,

00:27:50   I think we're gonna do this,

00:27:51   And I'm very curious, like, I'm going

00:27:53   to be on the losing end of this.

00:27:54   It's like, how much do you use your phone at night?

00:27:56   How much do you use your phone at night?

00:27:58   And it's not good for me.

00:28:01   I'd like to see it on the Mac.

00:28:02   I think, like you, Jason, you run to a degree.

00:28:05   I spend my working day on the Mac.

00:28:07   And so there are lots of great apps that do that.

00:28:08   One of them is a sponsor tonight.

00:28:10   It's not a plug, just a coincidence.

00:28:12   But I would like to see this really be cross-platform.

00:28:15   Then Apple could really build a case for,

00:28:17   no matter where you are in our ecosystem,

00:28:19   you can be mindful of what you're doing.

00:28:21   And that feels like something

00:28:23   that would be an obvious win down the road.

00:28:26   - Oh yeah, I think that that's definitely in their roadmap.

00:28:29   I would be surprised if it wasn't.

00:28:30   It's more of a, you know,

00:28:32   if you're weighing and you're saying, man, all right,

00:28:35   can we bring dark mode to the Mac this year?

00:28:38   Or can we bring screen time?

00:28:40   And I'm guessing the dark mode won out

00:28:44   by like a little margin.

00:28:46   - Little bit.

00:28:47   It does look really cool.

00:28:48   - It does look really cool.

00:28:50   - And there are third party apps that do some of this.

00:28:52   - Totally.

00:28:53   - So it's not quite as desperately needed.

00:28:54   - It's not as urgent, right?

00:28:55   - Yeah, exactly.

00:28:56   - In my mind, we've all been in the situation

00:28:58   where you're watching Netflix and it comes up,

00:29:00   it's like, are you still there?

00:29:01   And in my mind, I read that in a very judgmental way.

00:29:05   Are you seriously still watching The Office?

00:29:08   And so I'm curious how I will personally respond to this,

00:29:12   but I'm excited because, like you said,

00:29:14   I think we all know that we struggle with this,

00:29:16   But until we have numbers, it's really hard to talk about.

00:29:19   And I think Apple giving us all the information

00:29:22   we need to better manage this is a good thing.

00:29:26   And maybe 2.0 on iOS will get sad emojis every time

00:29:31   you overstay your limit.

00:29:33   So it's just like, Steven.

00:29:36   Oh, man.

00:29:37   Right?

00:29:38   That's a guilt trip right there.

00:29:40   It's not the future I want.

00:29:41   It's syncing with your watch data.

00:29:42   So it would also be like, hey, Netflix guy, time to stand.

00:29:45   I understand.

00:29:46   Jason and Serenity, thank you for joining me.

00:29:49   Give it up for these guys.

00:29:50   Thanks everybody.

00:29:51   Thanks Steven.

00:29:52   Thank you.

00:29:53   You can find them on Twitter.

00:29:59   They're on a bunch of shows.

00:30:00   Jason writes Six Colors.

00:30:03   Serenity is in charge at iMore.

00:30:05   They make great stuff.

00:30:06   If you're not familiar with them, go get familiar with them.

00:30:08   We both do podcasts with Steven Hackett on Real AFM.

00:30:10   That's true.

00:30:11   I didn't want to...

00:30:12   That felt weird for me to say, but you do.

00:30:15   It's true.

00:30:16   See, that wasn't that weird.

00:30:18   We're connected in different ways.

00:30:19   That's right.

00:30:20   That's right.

00:30:21   Neither of us has a beard, though, so.

00:30:22   No.

00:30:23   I know it's weird for you.

00:30:24   Smooth.

00:30:25   You're really in the cell zone now, man.

00:30:27   Really glad I'm not sitting next to you.

00:30:30   Thank you, guys.

00:30:31   Thank you.

00:30:32   Thanks.

00:30:33   Since I said Jason was old earlier, let me say this.

00:30:42   I'm going to embarrass him.

00:30:43   told me eight years ago that I was gonna be on stage next to Jason Snell, my

00:30:49   mind would have been blown. It's amazing. Jason started that applause, that's not

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00:32:48   (audience applauding)

00:32:51   For our second segment this evening,

00:32:56   I would like to bring out two very handsome

00:32:59   young men from Europe.

00:33:00   Be sure to give Myke that energy he craves.

00:33:02   Myke Hurley, Federica Vatici.

00:33:04   (audience cheering)

00:33:07   - Yeah, that was it.

00:33:16   - Thank you. - There you are.

00:33:17   - You did it.

00:33:18   - Is that enough energy, Myke?

00:33:20   - Yeah, it was good.

00:33:21   - A good amount of energy?

00:33:21   - I mean, we can't do it again, it's done.

00:33:23   - I was kind of afraid that I was gonna walk out here

00:33:25   and just John T.C. will be there alone.

00:33:28   - So this is kind of better.

00:33:29   You're doing a good job.

00:33:31   - Thank you.

00:33:31   - Yeah.

00:33:32   - I do have to say, this is not the first time

00:33:35   Connected has been on stage this week.

00:33:36   (laughing)

00:33:38   - We've had a great week so far.

00:33:40   - So we're watching the keynote.

00:33:43   Federico's in the room.

00:33:46   Myke is here in San Jose.

00:33:47   I'm watching it alone.

00:33:49   And all of a sudden they're talking about

00:33:52   podcasts on watchOS and I was super psyched

00:33:55   for Marco Armin, you know, super psyched

00:33:57   for all these podcast apps to come with the watch.

00:33:59   And then it got a little bit sweeter

00:34:01   because a very familiar rainbow colored globe

00:34:04   was the example artwork.

00:34:05   - Yep.

00:34:06   (audience cheering)

00:34:09   Yeah, I blacked out a little bit.

00:34:14   I genuinely, I know that there was like a demo

00:34:18   on an exercise bike, but I don't remember it.

00:34:20   I have no memory of it.

00:34:23   and I think I had to be hugged into existence again.

00:34:28   But it was incredible.

00:34:29   And obviously we are very happy because it was our show,

00:34:33   but I think it was a great thing for Apple

00:34:36   to have chosen a show like ours to show on stage.

00:34:40   - You would say that.

00:34:41   - Well, yeah.

00:34:42   I mean, I'd probably say it if it was ATP, probably, I think.

00:34:46   I don't know, I like those guys.

00:34:48   They're all right.

00:34:50   But I just think that it would've been very easy

00:34:52   to have a more mainstream show.

00:34:54   - Sure. - Showing that,

00:34:55   and I think that it was just another thing in a keynote

00:34:58   that I think was really focused towards that community.

00:35:00   I think we saw it in the videos at the start

00:35:02   and the end as well, so I think it was really great.

00:35:04   - Yeah, it was awesome.

00:35:05   - Yeah.

00:35:06   - We have a lot of stuff to talk about,

00:35:07   but first, I'm very concerned about this,

00:35:09   because this showed up in my doc.

00:35:11   - Don't be concerned.

00:35:12   - Three minutes ago.

00:35:13   - All right, so I wanted to do some research

00:35:15   about this place, and I went online,

00:35:17   and I Googled San Jose Hammer Theater,

00:35:21   I wanted to just give you a little bit of fun facts about tall guy teachy everybody tour guide teaching

00:35:27   We would like to come back here next year

00:35:29   Don't worry. I took out all the if it's like if there's some like horrific back story

00:35:33   Theater was the first professional theater company here in San Jose was founded in 1980. So you were probably already like 52 or something. Yeah

00:35:42   55 that fall it is named after Phil and Susan hammer. I did some research about the research about them

00:35:49   So Phil is an attorney. It doesn't work anymore. So he's retired. Did you call him?

00:35:54   Is he here? So I wanted to add him on LinkedIn

00:35:58   But Susan was real start of the show so Susan hammer was the was the mayor of San Jose from

00:36:08   1991 to 1999

00:36:11   Now the problem is that in the 1990?

00:36:14   unfortunately

00:36:16   Rapper MC Hammer was popular

00:36:18   [LAUGHTER]

00:36:20   Why is this so unfortunate?

00:36:22   Because according to an article that I found,

00:36:26   kids who saw Susan Hammer in the street

00:36:28   will often shout, it's Hammer time.

00:36:30   [LAUGHTER]

00:36:32   [APPLAUSE]

00:36:36   And not only that, but according to the Mercury News,

00:36:39   which is a website here, the word--

00:36:42   It's more than just a website.

00:36:44   Also, you can visit that website anywhere.

00:36:46   You don't have to be just here to see it.

00:36:48   On this local network, you can visit--

00:36:50   World Wide Web.

00:36:51   Is that how net neutrality works?

00:36:53   I don't know.

00:36:55   So Susan had a few nicknames.

00:36:58   So she loves-- she loves-- she's still alive.

00:37:01   She loves tennis.

00:37:03   And so some folks used the color Mayor Topspin.

00:37:11   But also, off the air, some folks will refer to her as--

00:37:21   [LAUGHTER]

00:37:22   Oh my god.

00:37:22   [LAUGHTER]

00:37:25   I don't know why, but I swear I copy and paste it.

00:37:27   OK.

00:37:28   The hamster.

00:37:29   [LAUGHTER]

00:37:29   Well, yeah, because hammer, right?

00:37:31   Hamster.

00:37:33   San Jose citizens are not new to nicknames for mayors.

00:37:37   OK.

00:37:38   You may be familiar with Tom McHenry, who--

00:37:41   you know, the McHenry Convention Center, where WWDC happens.

00:37:45   He was also mayor of this city.

00:37:48   And he used to be called "The Prince".

00:37:51   - Do you know why? - He claims to be "The Prince".

00:37:56   Lord Mayor.

00:38:01   Finally.

00:38:04   Big Mac.

00:38:09   (laughter)

00:38:11   That's my research. Thank you so much. That was

00:38:15   (applause)

00:38:20   That was the most specific episode of UnGenius that's ever been done.

00:38:25   Thanks, Tom Spin.

00:38:29   Okay, so last week? Yep. Last week. Yep. We we don't do predictions on connected. No. Because you get into trouble.

00:38:37   Yep, we do what's called the happy ometer and we decide not predictions. They're not predictions

00:38:43   No, it's things that would make us the most happy

00:38:46   Completely divorced from reality

00:38:50   There's not that Apple should or will or ever will do these things is things that if they did this

00:38:56   It would be like Phil Schiller came to me and just gave me a hug and slipped this feature into my pocket

00:39:03   I think that's how software works goes right in there. Yep, please stop

00:39:07   Sorry.

00:39:08   [laughter]

00:39:09   So, we have our results.

00:39:13   We do.

00:39:14   And we'll reserve them.

00:39:16   As promised, we will grade these on the teachy scale.

00:39:19   Yes.

00:39:20   Which, could you please read the full teachy scale for Erica?

00:39:22   I have it here, physically.

00:39:23   We have a printout.

00:39:24   This is a teachy scale.

00:39:28   Starts from nightmare.

00:39:29   Nightmare.

00:39:30   It's real bad.

00:39:31   Nightmare.

00:39:32   Goes up to inferior minus.

00:39:33   It's not as bad as...

00:39:34   Moving on to inferior.

00:39:35   Yeah, then we enter the orange yellow zone of the skill decent decent. Yeah normal normal

00:39:43   This is where it gets good. Yep. Yep. Good. Good. It gets good at good

00:39:47   Or into the good section then there's good plus plus and finally there's best I love best. I love you. All right

00:39:55   Best I love you. Oh best. I love you, too. So I

00:40:02   I would say we've scored it. I think I got three things.

00:40:07   I got what happened to the Workflow team.

00:40:09   I got indications of a shared app platform, which I think nobody thought I was gonna get, but I believed in it.

00:40:15   And a generic emoji face and emoji.

00:40:19   So I think that I kind of got decent on scale. What do you think?

00:40:23   There would be one best I love you for Workflow.

00:40:25   Oh, cool.

00:40:27   Subscoring?

00:40:28   Are you just sub-scoring each pit?

00:40:30   I mean, this is a very complicated system you're creating.

00:40:32   I mean, the workflow is--

00:40:34   It's the best I love you.

00:40:36   The shared app platform--

00:40:39   Good?

00:40:40   Good.

00:40:40   It's not here yet?

00:40:41   The absolute kind of weird?

00:40:43   We don't need to do all of it.

00:40:44   We just-- overall is fine.

00:40:46   Overall, I would say--

00:40:47   Because we have a lot.

00:40:48   Tell another man how to use his scale.

00:40:50   There's like another--

00:40:51   [LAUGHTER]

00:40:51   Hold on.

00:40:52   There's like another nine more.

00:40:53   That's true.

00:40:54   We're going to be here a long time.

00:40:55   I think it's the Animoji that brings you down to normal.

00:40:58   Hey, come on.

00:40:59   You mentioned the yellow face.

00:41:01   That is not a--

00:41:01   That is true.

00:41:02   I thought you were going to mention that.

00:41:03   He forgot the smiley standard.

00:41:04   Yeah, that's true.

00:41:06   How'd I do?

00:41:07   Well, you got consolidation of gestures.

00:41:10   It went the wrong way.

00:41:11   Yeah.

00:41:12   Because now the iPad pulls down from the top right,

00:41:15   which is the wrong place.

00:41:16   I was-- so I'm both--

00:41:18   yeah, it's a nightmare.

00:41:21   Maybe inferior minus.

00:41:23   Maybe inferior minus.

00:41:24   HomeKit support for the Mac.

00:41:27   It's good.

00:41:27   Great. One, two fans. Improvements to the core apps.

00:41:31   And Finder, Finder got a lot of love.

00:41:34   Is that an app though? I don't think Finder is an app.

00:41:36   It's THE app.

00:41:38   It's like, is the heart A organ? Or is the heart downloaded from the app store?

00:41:43   Yeah, can you get it from the app store?

00:41:45   We don't have one of those.

00:41:46   Do you know what the app store is?

00:41:47   No, I just listened. You do now.

00:41:49   We do now.

00:41:50   Because it's getting our apps. So it's a real one.

00:41:53   [audience oohs]

00:41:54   Yeah!

00:41:55   [audience laughs and applauds]

00:41:59   So what are we given? I think like, it's like a good?

00:42:03   No, normal.

00:42:05   Normal?

00:42:06   Normal.

00:42:07   Now I wonder where this one's gonna go. We go to Federico's.

00:42:10   Complete notifications overhaul. Improved, customizable, do not disturb.

00:42:15   Re-commitment to the Mac App Store. Third party dev access to the Siri watch face.

00:42:20   and to improve among the screen time and digital health. Where did you score on the scale?

00:42:24   I mean, this is a good plus overall.

00:42:26   Good plus? Yeah, I think so.

00:42:28   Okay, so to recap, good plus normal good.

00:42:34   Wait, no, that shouldn't be right. You got more than I did.

00:42:37   I'm normal, he gets good, you get good plus.

00:42:41   That feels right.

00:42:42   You can do that.

00:42:43   So I think it's time to open the mystery box.

00:42:44   There's a mystery box.

00:42:45   Mystery box.

00:42:46   For people that can only hear this.

00:42:47   Steven brought a box onto the stage and it just says the word mystery on it.

00:42:51   And it's got like brown packing tape on it.

00:42:54   Doesn't look weird in any way.

00:42:56   It says did Amazon wrote mystery on it?

00:43:01   It did. Oh, interesting.

00:43:03   It's a I'm a deluxe prime member.

00:43:05   They label your boxes for you now.

00:43:06   OK.

00:43:08   Oh, ASMR.

00:43:14   All I told Myke was I'm spending some company money.

00:43:17   So I got some things to present.

00:43:20   - Okay. - Okay.

00:43:21   - Show and tell.

00:43:23   - Well, sort of.

00:43:25   But you get to take these home.

00:43:26   - This is the worst unboxing I've ever seen.

00:43:30   - Yes.

00:43:31   - Podcast is not YouTube.

00:43:33   Pull it together.

00:43:34   All right, so we have Myke in third place.

00:43:36   - Yep. - Okay.

00:43:38   Don't look.

00:43:39   - Are you gonna work this out?

00:43:40   - Close your eyes.

00:43:41   I don't know which order I put them in the box.

00:43:44   If you're listening at home and you're driving, don't close your eyes.

00:43:47   [laughter]

00:43:49   Please don't close your eyes.

00:43:50   We have three separate parcels.

00:43:53   Do you want to just open these a little bit quicker?

00:43:55   No, I think it's good.

00:43:56   All right.

00:43:56   Okay.

00:43:56   We're building...

00:43:57   Because we have to think of things to say while we're going through.

00:44:00   So in third place...

00:44:02   All right.

00:44:03   Drum roll!

00:44:03   [applause]

00:44:04   Oh, look at that.

00:44:05   We have a drum roll.

00:44:06   [applause]

00:44:10   Can you explain your prize?

00:44:11   I have a trophy, which is white porcelain in nature because it is a toilet.

00:44:18   Is it engraved anywhere?

00:44:20   It feels like it's too much.

00:44:21   What did I get? Decent? Decent? Like, what would I have gotten for nightmare?

00:44:25   That one.

00:44:26   Oh, you don't want only three.

00:44:27   There's only three.

00:44:28   So, now I have to put this toilet trophy in my luggage.

00:44:32   On your mantle.

00:44:33   And it goes on. Yep. Great. Thank you.

00:44:35   Your fiancĂ© is going to love it.

00:44:38   She's gonna be so excited. She said I really hope that you come home with a toilet trophy

00:44:43   So who's next this you next I'm next this is the awkward part of this is I have to give myself an award

00:44:49   Yeah, this is gonna be incredible right? It's like money us. Oh there look. It's a

00:44:54   Gold star it's a trophy. It's even got a plaque. I don't have a plaque

00:44:59   It's a trophy holding a trophy

00:45:02   second place and it says decent

00:45:07   That's not fair. Why?

00:45:09   I am the senior vice president of trophies. Oh

00:45:12   My god, it's a federal code. I'm really glad Federico won because when I bought this I wanted it to go to you. Oh

00:45:19   Okay

00:45:23   It is a golden laptop, I think it's a down though

00:45:33   Because it has two it's one of those things with track pads and Federico's has a has a

00:45:40   Thing to it says happy on that champion. Why didn't I at least get a

00:45:45   plaque on the third place, baby

00:45:47   All right. Thank you Steven. Um, but these did I ever tell you the story when I almost

00:45:53   Won a trophy when I was a kid. No

00:45:56   Sounds like it's gonna be sad

00:46:00   All right, so when I was 10

00:46:03   And my dad on a Sunday thought that it would be a fun family experience to go fishing.

00:46:10   But instead of going to an actual lake, we went to an artificial lake where there was

00:46:16   a swimming pool.

00:46:17   Are you looking for a swimming pool?

00:46:18   No, it was like one of those lakes where just like they do fish stocking.

00:46:23   So they just throw a bunch of fish into the lake.

00:46:26   And you can go there as a kid and you can fish.

00:46:30   You're guaranteed to catch something.

00:46:31   I don't remember the details, but there was some kind of competition.

00:46:34   A disease?

00:46:35   What kind of a fish?

00:46:36   You're not catching a disease.

00:46:37   Oh, sorry.

00:46:38   You're not getting in the lake.

00:46:41   Did you get in the lake?

00:46:42   No, I didn't get into the lake.

00:46:43   Okay.

00:46:44   So they gave me all the equipment, and I was real young.

00:46:48   And I was like, "You've got to catch a trout or something."

00:46:51   That's very specific.

00:46:53   And there was some kind of competition.

00:46:54   They were going to give you some kind of medal or trophy.

00:46:58   And I tried for, I swear, for like four hours.

00:47:00   - Okay. - Oh no.

00:47:01   - And it's supposed to be real easy

00:47:03   because they literally feel that they dump fish

00:47:06   into the lake.

00:47:07   So it's basically-- - Are they alive?

00:47:09   - Yes, yes they are. - Okay.

00:47:11   - I don't know. - You gotta fish that fish.

00:47:12   - I don't know.

00:47:13   They make it really easy or something, I don't know.

00:47:15   - So-- - Like a net?

00:47:16   (audience laughing)

00:47:19   - So after a couple of hours, it's like,

00:47:21   keep trying, keep trying, you'll catch some fish.

00:47:24   My dad and my mom are starting to get concerned

00:47:27   that my self-esteem would basically be destroyed

00:47:30   because it was everybody.

00:47:31   (laughing)

00:47:32   It's like they talked to the organization

00:47:35   that was doing these things like,

00:47:36   "Our son is not, he can't fish."

00:47:39   (laughing)

00:47:41   But this is strange, everybody else is.

00:47:43   So after four hours, my dad is like,

00:47:46   "Maybe we should go home."

00:47:47   But I was real sad, I wasn't really bummed out.

00:47:50   And this is where it gets real bad.

00:47:54   - Oh. (laughing)

00:47:54   The company that was running this place thought that I was going to be slightly happier if I went home with a fish.

00:48:05   The problem was that they gave me a frozen trout from the freezer that they had.

00:48:14   You really should coat one.

00:48:15   And I went home.

00:48:17   I packed.

00:48:18   I packed this frozen trout.

00:48:23   When we arrived home, it smelled so bad.

00:48:27   My dad just dumped it into the trash.

00:48:32   I was traumatized for like weeks.

00:48:40   I mean...

00:48:42   I'm still not sure why this even started though.

00:48:45   Is this like a rite of passage in Italy?

00:48:48   Like every boy must catch a trout before he can become a man?

00:48:52   That's where I'm from. We did that in the South.

00:48:54   Oh, okay.

00:48:55   It's a different thing.

00:48:56   So, thank you for the award.

00:48:58   If only it was a fish.

00:48:59   I finally have one.

00:49:01   [Laughter]

00:49:03   [Applause]

00:49:04   Yay, Puerto Rico!

00:49:06   I have an important item of follow-up.

00:49:09   [Mimicking air whooshing sound]

00:49:10   Follow-up.

00:49:11   Follow-up.

00:49:12   Memoji have fixed the tiny head problem.

00:49:15   They're huge.

00:49:16   They're huge.

00:49:18   So if the Memoji is, which is probably my favorite feature

00:49:22   of iOS 12--

00:49:23   - Weird.

00:49:23   So unlike--

00:49:24   - If you take a picture with one of them,

00:49:26   the head is oversized.

00:49:27   So Apple listened.

00:49:29   We know they listen to the show and love the show.

00:49:31   And they fixed the tiny head problem for us.

00:49:34   - Let's give it up for Apple.

00:49:35   - Yay.

00:49:36   [APPLAUSE]

00:49:38   All right.

00:49:39   I have a very special ad break right now.

00:49:41   - Oh, man.

00:49:41   - Because it includes a challenge.

00:49:44   This episode is brought to you by Timing,

00:49:46   the app that can help automate your time tracking to save you

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00:49:55   broken down by app, website, and document.

00:49:57   But that's a lot of data to work through.

00:49:59   So timing lets you use drag and drop

00:50:01   to create rules that will automatically categorize

00:50:04   your time for you.

00:50:05   Timing also understands that not all of your work

00:50:07   will happen while you're sitting at your Mac.

00:50:09   So they will automatically suggest gaps in your timeline

00:50:12   and how to fill them so you never

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00:50:15   It can even automatically ask you whatever it is you were doing when you returned to

00:50:19   your Mac.

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00:50:24   You can download the free 14-day trial today by going to timingapp.com/connected and save

00:50:31   10% when you purchase.

00:50:32   Now Federico, I need you to go to the clock app on your phone, please, and get a 30-second

00:50:39   timer ready.

00:50:41   Considering timing is all about time tracking. We're gonna do a time based challenge. So I have a piece of paper here

00:50:48   So Steven hi, we're gonna see in 30 seconds how many vintage max you can name

00:50:54   Can I just say

00:50:58   John, Syracuse is 14 feet away from me. Yeah

00:51:01   He gave me some like instructions. I know you made me leave the room

00:51:06   I don't really remember what it like

00:51:08   I don't he told me a thing and I don't really know what it means though. What'd he say?

00:51:13   Maybe I could know I won't tell you afterwards in case it gives it away. So are you ready 30 seconds? Yeah

00:51:17   Vintage that's just as many as you want. You say oh for I wasn't nervous at walking on stage tonight. I'm nervous about this

00:51:24   All right. I have a reputation. You've got to count them to Federico. Are we can all count them?

00:51:29   Well, you know what we can count. No, it'd be too loud to noise. I won't count. All right, you count them

00:51:33   You don't work this out beforehand. Oh, no, don't worry about it

00:51:36   Start the timer now go

00:51:38   original Macintosh Macintosh 512

00:51:42   Macintosh SE Macintosh SE 30 the most important one don't like it -

00:51:48   Macintosh to CI Macintosh to CX Macintosh to FX a

00:51:53   Bunch of quadros no one cares about that's like 30 machines right there. We'll jump forward in time

00:51:59   I'm not counting it. I'm at g3 power Mac g3

00:52:03   iBook G3, iBook G4, 14-inch iBook G4, two separate models.

00:52:08   Alright, that's enough of that.

00:52:08   We're done. 14!

00:52:09   Thank you very much.

00:52:11   You did-

00:52:11   I didn't-

00:52:12   Give it up for Steven.

00:52:13   I think you did alright.

00:52:14   You did alright.

00:52:14   I don't know, I lost count.

00:52:16   It was a lot.

00:52:16   It was like 150.

00:52:18   Yeah, 150.

00:52:19   So what John said to me before, he just sent me an iMessage that said, "Mac versus Macintosh?"

00:52:24   Mmm.

00:52:25   So, yeah, some- some-

00:52:27   He's right there.

00:52:29   I know.

00:52:29   He said something about, like, they changed the names or something.

00:52:32   - Starting points, yeah, I mean, you know.

00:52:35   Can't win 'em all.

00:52:36   - Should we talk about Siri shortcuts?

00:52:38   - Let's do it.

00:52:39   - We have the man right here.

00:52:41   - Okay.

00:52:42   - So Siri shortcuts.

00:52:43   The announcement of Siri shortcuts

00:52:47   was like a rollercoaster of emotion.

00:52:49   - Yes.

00:52:50   - Because I think it became very clear to all of us

00:52:53   pretty quickly that this was what

00:52:55   the workflow team were doing.

00:52:57   And any time workflow has been mentioned

00:53:01   in any way for the last year, it has been met with-- oh, is

00:53:05   this one instead?

00:53:06   Is it now?

00:53:07   Is it dead now?

00:53:08   And it definitely looked like they were doing something, and

00:53:12   that might mean that it was going to go away.

00:53:13   But then there was this whole roller coaster.

00:53:16   And then when we saw the UI, it's like, oh, it looks just

00:53:18   like workflow.

00:53:19   It's very much like--

00:53:20   When I saw the icon, I showed the icon to Casey, who was

00:53:23   sitting next to me.

00:53:24   I was like, I think this is workflow.

00:53:25   Yeah, you've got that intuition going on.

00:53:27   I guess shapes and squares and letters, it's all very

00:53:30   similar. So when Workflow was acquired you wrote an article talking

00:53:36   about kind of you outlined a bunch of different scenarios and if I'm right I

00:53:42   think where we are right now is best case right? Like best I love you.

00:53:46   Yes, it appears to be the best timeline possible so far in that not only are they

00:53:54   going to keep doing what Workflow used to do which is automation but they are

00:53:59   expanding into deep system level Siri integration.

00:54:04   So the Siri shortcuts that Apple showed on stage are

00:54:10   effectively the new way for developers to expand SiriKit

00:54:14   with a bunch of APIs that we can talk about briefly.

00:54:16   But the idea would be you can start simple with the

00:54:19   shortcuts, and then if you want, you can move on to the

00:54:21   more advanced stuff, which is what Workflow used to be.

00:54:23   -Would you say it's a deep and open framework?

00:54:28   -No.

00:54:29   I got it.

00:54:30   You got it.

00:54:31   I got it.

00:54:32   Last year in the happy-ometer Federico picked a deep and open framework for messages.

00:54:39   And no one knew what it meant and we asked him and he didn't.

00:54:41   I gave you an explanation.

00:54:42   But we all blacked out.

00:54:44   And obviously I learned from my mistake because I won and you didn't.

00:54:50   I didn't get that thing though.

00:54:52   You didn't win though.

00:54:54   Alright so what is actually going on here?

00:54:58   So there's, to simplify, there's two types of shortcuts at a high level.

00:55:03   There's the shortcuts that Apple showed initially, like the suggestions and

00:55:08   the predictive shortcuts.

00:55:09   Those that you can get in the spotlight search, you can get on the lock screen.

00:55:14   You can get as a notification, for example, to expand and pops up a menu.

00:55:20   And those are based, my understanding,

00:55:23   they're highly based on two different types of technologies.

00:55:27   One would be the NSUserActivity API, which is the same one that's been used for spotlight

00:55:31   search since, I think, iOS 9, maybe, which is basically a way to take you back into a

00:55:36   specific screen or piece of content into an app, like, I don't know, your favorite coffee

00:55:40   shop or something.

00:55:42   They can also use SiriKit intents, which would mean that they don't just take you into another

00:55:48   app.

00:55:49   They show you a piece of custom UI that you can interact with using simple actions built

00:55:55   in.

00:55:56   And then there's the, I think Apple calls them on the website, personalized shortcuts.

00:56:02   And those are the workflows that we used to put together.

00:56:05   >> These are like the multi-chain actions that are being created by drag and drop and

00:56:11   have all this, okay, has all the stuff that we used to?

00:56:15   >> So my understanding based on what I've seen from the screenshots from the keynote,

00:56:22   from the State of the Union, from sections.

00:56:24   Things I've heard around--

00:56:27   - Information you picked up from the floor.

00:56:29   - Yes.

00:56:30   - Walking around, like people dropping papers

00:56:31   and stuff like that.

00:56:32   - Yeah.

00:56:33   You know.

00:56:34   - That's how it goes.

00:56:35   It's such a mess in the convention center.

00:56:36   - Yeah.

00:56:37   The goal should be that this is a workflow replacement

00:56:43   in that very little, if nothing, should break

00:56:47   when you move on to shortcuts.

00:56:49   - Okay.

00:56:50   Of course, things change.

00:56:53   But my understanding is that if you look at the actions, for

00:56:55   example, you can see the scripting categories.

00:56:57   You can see the text types of actions.

00:56:59   You can see the magic variables.

00:57:02   This is all stuff that used to be in Workflow.

00:57:05   And especially the Scripting section, that was the one that

00:57:09   I was most concerned about.

00:57:10   MATT GAUNT: And this is like the external API access and

00:57:12   stuff like that?

00:57:13   MIGUEL D'SOUZA-MARTIN: No, that's the web section, which

00:57:15   is in there.

00:57:17   The scripting would be the conditional blocks or loops,

00:57:20   so that real advanced stuff for workflow.

00:57:23   And that's all in, in addition to new homekit integrations.

00:57:26   So there's the old stuff, which my hope

00:57:30   and my understanding so far is that your existing workflows

00:57:33   should not break in theory.

00:57:35   And also there's new actions and the simple shortcuts

00:57:40   that you can set up in settings in iOS 12,

00:57:44   the predictive shortcuts.

00:57:46   Those can become actions if you put together an actual workflow or personalized shortcut.

00:57:53   So really, this is the best workflow app that could ever exist?

00:57:59   In theory, yes.

00:58:00   Because it has all of Apple's stuff like HomeKit, which they were never going to put in before.

00:58:07   Plus because it's becoming a huge system feature, really we were talking about this earlier,

00:58:13   for iOS it is the big developer feature this year.

00:58:15   It's one of the only big things that developers can do over the next few months for new APIs and stuff.

00:58:21   So it will also be encouraging huge companies to add these shortcuts in.

00:58:28   So really it's like the very best it could ever be.

00:58:33   Mm-hmm. Yeah, this is a guaranteed best "I love you".

00:58:37   Yeah, I think so.

00:58:38   Going to the Siri team and saying "best 'I love you' for everybody".

00:58:41   And they're expanding it just beyond the phone or the iPad, so it's on the watch,

00:58:45   It's on the home pod.

00:58:47   It will not be on the watch as an actual app,

00:58:51   but you will see shortcuts on the watch as part of the Siri watch face.

00:58:55   Can you trigger them with Siri on the watch?

00:58:58   Because you can on the home pod too, right?

00:59:00   You should be able to do this stuff with Siri everywhere.

00:59:04   Apple TV Siri? No one cares.

00:59:07   Apple TV? Seriously?

00:59:09   That's not on the map.

00:59:10   That's what you want to know, Apple TV?

00:59:12   Of all the possible questions that you have in there,

00:59:15   Apple TV is your question?

00:59:16   Since the heel, you want to die on Apple TV?

00:59:18   Came to mind.

00:59:19   OK.

00:59:20   We do have limited time.

00:59:21   But what I also saw on the website

00:59:23   is the presence of a widget.

00:59:26   So Workflow used to have a widget,

00:59:28   and you were able to trigger workflows from the widget.

00:59:32   What happened was some workflows could

00:59:35   run from the constraints of the widget, which

00:59:37   was like a super minimal UI.

00:59:40   But if it was too complex, it would kick you back

00:59:42   to the workflow app, right?

00:59:44   So if it's based on the same system,

00:59:46   it's easy to imagine shortcuts that will run in the widget

00:59:52   and would say, hey, this is too complex for me.

00:59:54   If you need to enter something with a keyboard,

00:59:56   you need to open the main app.

00:59:58   But if the same system also powered the HomePod

01:00:01   or the watch, I can see how some shortcuts would

01:00:07   be able to run directly in an audio-only environment.

01:00:10   And others would say, you need to continue on your phone.

01:00:12   So this, to me, seems like it's the workflow

01:00:17   that we know and love, but only just growing

01:00:20   into more directions, only deeper in the system,

01:00:23   thanks to Siri and thanks to third party apps,

01:00:26   which is a huge focus at the sessions this year.

01:00:29   They want to make sure that no matter what your app does,

01:00:32   you can integrate with Siri, which

01:00:34   I think it's unexpected, because I was

01:00:38   surprised to see this, honestly.

01:00:40   What you just said there is what I've been thinking of.

01:00:42   Why are they doing this?

01:00:43   Because workflow has been considered a niche power user

01:00:47   app, and it was one of the reasons why

01:00:50   it was such a surprise that when they purchased it, it remained.

01:00:53   It remained in the store.

01:00:54   Why would Apple spend so much time and effort

01:00:58   into making the system better?

01:00:59   And I think I theorize the problem is SiriKit.

01:01:05   Under the current system of SiriKit,

01:01:06   the way that they're adding these different categories

01:01:09   applications, they never would get them all.

01:01:13   With the way that they've been doing it currently, it's going to take too long, too slow, to

01:01:16   add all of these different types of applications every single time.

01:01:20   So now they're kind of just like, well, you can kind of do anything, and we'll make it

01:01:24   work.

01:01:27   The idea would be that developers can do custom intents in circuit if they want to show any

01:01:34   kind of UI.

01:01:35   It seems like they're still doing the limited domains,

01:01:38   very specific domains like note taking or messaging

01:01:41   or payments.

01:01:41   But they're also allowing developers

01:01:43   of more generic type of utilities or something

01:01:46   that cannot strictly be categorized

01:01:47   into a single domain.

01:01:49   They're allowing them to make a custom intent that

01:01:51   can be part of shortcuts.

01:01:53   There's a difference between shortcuts the framework

01:01:55   or the system and shortcuts the app.

01:01:57   But the idea would be that if you're an average user,

01:02:01   you can just go into settings and you can save shortcuts.

01:02:04   For Siri, you can record a custom sentence for any type of app that you have on your phone.

01:02:08   If you're someone like us, I mean not Steven necessarily, but you know the two of us.

01:02:14   I'm sorry.

01:02:14   Us too.

01:02:15   You know the times at connector where they talk about this and I go quiet?

01:02:18   I'm in my office so I can like get up and walk around.

01:02:21   I'm stuck on stage.

01:02:22   Can't go anywhere.

01:02:23   You could just like slide under the table and just like leave.

01:02:28   So the idea would be that the two of us, we can go from the simple shortcuts in settings,

01:02:35   we can open the shortcuts app, which will be on the apps, or this is also written on the website.

01:02:40   I hope there will be a test flight at some point.

01:02:43   I reckon I'd probably just drop it into the beta at some point.

01:02:46   I don't think that that seems like a completely unrealistic thing to put it back.

01:02:51   Yeah, whatever, just put it on the beta.

01:02:53   we can put together these more custom, personalized shortcuts.

01:02:59   And what I thought was interesting is during the keynote,

01:03:02   I think there was a demo of a custom shortcut.

01:03:05   I'm going to keep saying Workflow forever.

01:03:08   Shortcut is a better name, though.

01:03:10   Yes, it is. It is.

01:03:12   And they were showing four to five different actions.

01:03:16   Something like getting directions, play the radio station,

01:03:19   set the thermostat to 70 degrees, whatever that means in America, I have no idea.

01:03:24   Is that hot? Is that cold?

01:03:25   It's perfect.

01:03:26   It's perfect. 70 is perfect? All right.

01:03:29   And they were showing all these actions running within the context of the Siri UI,

01:03:36   but if you go back and watch the keynote, you can see Siri just basically scrolling through actions.

01:03:44   Siri doesn't care, it just moves from action to action.

01:03:47   And it's awesome because it's real automation happening within Siri.

01:03:52   I think it's incredible.

01:03:54   I think it's interesting too that this is at the same time we're talking about screen

01:03:58   time and limiting our interactions with our phones.

01:04:02   Where if you take the time and invest and build a bunch of these things and you can

01:04:05   walk into your house and trigger a bunch of things from your watch or from the HomePod

01:04:11   or even just talking into Siri as opposed to going through, "I need to do this and this

01:04:15   and you go over and set this home kit scene to come over here,

01:04:18   like that's kind of two sides of a coin where if you invest in it,

01:04:22   you can take advantage of all this great power

01:04:25   but not actually pick up your phone.

01:04:27   That helps with the distraction thing.

01:04:29   One of the do not disturb enhancements

01:04:31   was the do not disturb during bedtime.

01:04:34   And I really like this because I have found it,

01:04:37   especially this week, because I'm on different time zones,

01:04:39   so people contacting me how I would usually contact you,

01:04:43   middle of the night.

01:04:44   So like I might wake up at like 4 a.m.

01:04:47   because also jet lag, and I look at my phone

01:04:49   to see the time, and then I see like a bunch of notifications

01:04:52   and then I'm like drawn into them,

01:04:54   where now it'd be like, oh, the screen is blank,

01:04:56   I just see the time, and that's that.

01:04:58   This kind of reminds me of this in a way

01:05:01   that you would just be, say, asking your home pod

01:05:04   to do a thing for you.

01:05:05   You never have to look at your phone.

01:05:06   You're not gonna be pulled in

01:05:08   by that Instagram notification or something.

01:05:09   - Yeah.

01:05:10   Federica, let me ask you this.

01:05:12   When we talk about voice assistants, we talk about Amazon,

01:05:16   and we talk about Google, and we talk about Apple.

01:05:18   And until this point, Amazon has sort of ruled the show

01:05:23   when it comes to really just throwing the gates open

01:05:27   and letting users customize exactly what their instance

01:05:31   of the Amazon voice assistant who shall not be named,

01:05:35   what it does.

01:05:36   And it feels like to me,

01:05:37   someone who's not as steeped in this as you guys are,

01:05:40   that this feels like sort of wide open,

01:05:43   that Siri potentially, if developers invest in it

01:05:46   and spend the time to do it correctly,

01:05:48   that Siri is going to be flexible

01:05:51   and be different person to person,

01:05:53   that we're all gonna have our own sort of systems

01:05:56   built within Siri, like some people have

01:05:58   built within the Echo.

01:06:01   Do you think that that's a fair assessment?

01:06:04   Do you think that's what Apple sees as being,

01:06:06   is they want Siri to be tailored to every person

01:06:08   and what they need?

01:06:10   They're not talking about this in terms of competition

01:06:14   with other assistants, but I was thinking

01:06:16   about this the past couple of days, that in a way,

01:06:19   this feels to me like Apple's response to the Echo skills

01:06:24   ecosystem.

01:06:25   And if you put together all these different pieces,

01:06:28   the simple shortcuts that just open apps,

01:06:31   and the circuit integrations, and the custom circuit intents

01:06:34   that you can now do, and the shortcuts app,

01:06:37   And all these little custom phrases that you can,

01:06:39   these invocations that you can use to trigger stuff,

01:06:42   it almost feels like a response to the echo,

01:06:45   but in a sort of app-centric type of way.

01:06:48   - Yeah.

01:06:49   - And the advantage that Apple has here,

01:06:51   if this strategy works, is that the setup of these,

01:06:55   not skills, but the setup of these shortcuts

01:06:58   and integrations, it's going to be so much easier

01:07:01   than using the Amazon app and these web pages that you go

01:07:05   And you say, yeah, this is my account and everything.

01:07:08   Because you can do it in settings.

01:07:09   You can do it with Siri.

01:07:10   You can do it in the shortcuts app.

01:07:12   So if the strategy works out, it's also kind of a way to

01:07:18   say, we don't have to make a custom domain for everything.

01:07:21   You guys figured it out.

01:07:23   So I want to see how developers adopt these APIs

01:07:29   this summer.

01:07:29   Because effectively, this is the feature, as you said, that

01:07:33   everybody's talking about in terms of what can we do on

01:07:35   on iOS this summer, well, I guess we'll do some shortcuts.

01:07:38   So yeah, we'll see.

01:07:39   - Yeah, I just thought this could be really good

01:07:42   for non-HomeKit smart home devices

01:07:45   because you would be able to still trigger them with Siri.

01:07:49   Right, so let's say a lighting company

01:07:52   that is an integrative HomeKit for whatever reason

01:07:55   could create an action in their application

01:07:58   to turn off a light.

01:07:59   And you could still then ask Siri to, that's cool, man.

01:08:02   - Or directions from something other than Apple Maps.

01:08:05   I mean, it really-- I don't know if it's going to go as far as

01:08:08   talking to Spotify, but it does open the door, to your point,

01:08:11   to non-Apple services and apps.

01:08:14   Well, speaking of Spotify and audio apps in general,

01:08:17   there is no media intent for Siri.

01:08:20   But it should be possible to do something

01:08:24   like if you have a Spotify playlist

01:08:26   and if Spotify wants to integrate with shortcuts,

01:08:29   they could make a button that says,

01:08:30   add my Discover Weekly to Siri.

01:08:34   And you should be able, in theory,

01:08:36   if this works the way I imagine it works,

01:08:38   you should be able to say Siri play my discovery weekly

01:08:41   to open whatever command you wanna use and it'll work.

01:08:44   So it's sort of a workaround to, as I said,

01:08:47   instead of doing a specific domain for everything,

01:08:51   to say we make a general system.

01:08:53   We give you a general structure that should, in theory,

01:08:57   work for every kind of app that you have.

01:09:00   - And to, not to put too fond of a point on it,

01:09:02   but it's also different from Amazon

01:09:04   and that it's all on device.

01:09:06   You know, like you said,

01:09:07   if you wanna put a skill on your Echo,

01:09:09   you're going in the app,

01:09:10   it's like, I want a Magic 8-Ball skill,

01:09:12   because you can do one and it's awesome.

01:09:14   You gotta like find a webpage,

01:09:15   like find which one you want,

01:09:16   and the voice is going out somewhere

01:09:19   and you don't necessarily know

01:09:20   what's on the other end of it.

01:09:22   And with like so many other things Apple does,

01:09:25   or the competitors put it on the cloud,

01:09:27   or put it on a server farm,

01:09:28   and then the device is just sort of a terminal to that,

01:09:31   this stuff is happening on device.

01:09:35   I mean, it's still sending stuff back and forth to the cloud,

01:09:37   but the bulk of it, like all that creation and editing,

01:09:40   it's your data, it's on your devices,

01:09:42   it's synced to your iCloud account.

01:09:44   And I think as we get more into this,

01:09:46   where this stuff is integrating into our homes

01:09:49   and into our cars and all this stuff,

01:09:53   that's where I want it.

01:09:54   I want it on the device that's in my pocket

01:09:56   and know that everything is encrypted

01:09:58   and that I'm not using a skill

01:09:59   built by somebody who I'm not familiar with.

01:10:00   So I think it's taken them a little while to get here,

01:10:03   but I think there's a lot of advantages

01:10:04   to the way they're doing it.

01:10:06   I'm excited, like I said, I'm not in the front lines of it,

01:10:08   but I'm excited to see the possibilities.

01:10:09   - Yeah, you can have fun with Automator.

01:10:11   - That's right.

01:10:11   - It's back, baby, they mentioned it.

01:10:13   - Automator got a, yeah, I mean.

01:10:15   - Back.

01:10:16   - As we work on shortcuts, you will do Automator.

01:10:19   - Finder action.

01:10:20   - Sinks.

01:10:21   - I'm very excited.

01:10:22   - That great app Finder that everyone loves, right?

01:10:24   - The app.

01:10:25   - The app. - Finder, yeah, famous app.

01:10:26   Top choice. - Famous app.

01:10:27   - Yeah.

01:10:28   - It's best I love you.

01:10:29   - Finder?

01:10:30   I don't think it is.

01:10:31   John, what's decent?

01:10:34   Thumbs down.

01:10:35   That's not on the scale.

01:10:36   Oh my god.

01:10:36   Thumbs down.

01:10:37   Nightmare.

01:10:37   I think John Syracuse officially rated it a nightmare.

01:10:40   I think so.

01:10:42   So real quickly, name one dream shortcut

01:10:48   you think you can now make that you would not

01:10:50   be able to make in workflow.

01:10:51   That's the best question he's been asked all day.

01:10:56   You can't see it, but a single tear go down his cheek.

01:11:00   I want to make a shortcut that as I walk around the house,

01:11:07   I can ask the HomePod to save an idea to a text file in Dropbox.

01:11:15   It's pretty simple.

01:11:16   I know what mine is.

01:11:18   Start a toggle timer.

01:11:19   No, no, don't do time tracking on the show.

01:11:21   This is not Cortex.

01:11:23   This is not-- no.

01:11:24   No.

01:11:25   I even went so far as to looking into what it would take to build my own echo skill.

01:11:30   We're gonna talk about time tracking.

01:11:32   It would just be really nice to just be like, start a timer.

01:11:37   That's the end of this segment. We're done.

01:11:39   Okay.

01:11:40   Federico, thank you for joining us.

01:11:42   Give Federico a hand.

01:11:44   [Applause] >> Federico, I'm sure everybody knows, the editor in

01:11:50   chief of maxstories.net, a website not about Max, very

01:12:09   confusing. He doesn't like when I make that joke I'm sorry. I own iOS stories

01:12:18   dotnet. You do don't you? Yeah. Where does it redirect? My website. There it is.

01:12:25   All right we got a few things to wrap up a little housekeeping here at the end. We

01:12:30   have a, it's like you just keep scrolling in this document never ends. A lot of

01:12:34   people to thank. We do have a lot of people to thank. Thank you. Thank you first.

01:12:39   Tell me what to do. No, thank Steven first for putting on an incredible show this evening. Give him a round of applause.

01:12:45   We talked about this earlier, but we had a rough time this year getting the show together.

01:12:58   And I have to say the staff of the Hammer Theatre is incredible. They're all good. They're the best.

01:13:04   They worked with us over the last couple weeks getting this planned. There are a bunch of them here.

01:13:08   It's a very big dark room. There's like cubbies everywhere where people are working.

01:13:12   Thank them for having us tonight and making it all possible.

01:13:15   And this is an audio program and the audio is important.

01:13:24   So we had the best man in the business up there in the sound booth.

01:13:27   Please thank Marco Armet for helping us out with the recording.

01:13:36   We owe a huge debt of gratitude to Jessie Char. I'm sure you're familiar with Jessie. She runs the Layers conference.

01:13:42   When we had to make our last minute changes, Jessie is who put us in touch with Hamer theater.

01:13:48   And also made us know that it was okay. Yes. She had the...

01:13:52   We had to do this. She just helped us emotionally with support. She's very amazing.

01:13:57   If you have not been to the Layers conference, put it on your calendar for next year.

01:14:01   It really is incredible. People joke about the snacks. The snacks are really good.

01:14:05   But they put together an amazing line of speakers and talks and it should definitely be on your list for 2019

01:14:11   And again a huge thank you to Microsoft for really helping us out to be able to afford to put the show on in this

01:14:18   amazing venue tonight

01:14:19   We also like to thank the relay hosts who are here

01:14:23   This company is not us. It's all the people that we get to work with every day

01:14:27   So thank you to our hosts for making shows each and every week or fortnight not judging

01:14:33   Four nights fine, or if you're cortex whenever you want to.

01:14:39   Time tracking.

01:14:42   We are about to turn four years old as a company in August.

01:14:47   We've been having a lot of these conversations today of like, can you imagine four years

01:14:52   ago that we would be standing here right now?

01:14:54   So the biggest thank you, as always, goes to you, our listeners.

01:14:58   We love you.

01:14:59   Thank you so much.

01:14:59   [APPLAUSE]

01:15:02   He's looking at me very strangely.

01:15:09   I know you're up to no good.

01:15:11   Before we go, there is, to borrow a phrase,

01:15:15   one more thing.

01:15:16   It's a small thing.

01:15:17   Small thing.

01:15:18   It's a small thing.

01:15:19   Steven is now walking towards a chair

01:15:22   where he has a leather jacket.

01:15:24   This is not the one more thing.

01:15:25   No.

01:15:26   It's not just a wardrobe change.

01:15:28   You do need to hurry up with this wardrobe change though if you're gonna do this

01:15:31   because I just have to keep talking because no one can hear you even though you keep saying things

01:15:35   I don't know what else to say we've had other great shows at Relay FM this week

01:15:43   Steven has a jacket with a big blue X on it what is that OS X?

01:15:48   That's right isn't it? Is that how you say it? That's how you say it right?

01:15:51   We're breaking up.

01:15:54   Can I make this announcement my normal jacket?

01:15:56   Yes, Stephen's very excited about this, so he's put a big leather jacket on.

01:16:00   I can't tell you how hot it is in this jacket.

01:16:02   It's very hot.

01:16:03   So this is not our only live show this year.

01:16:08   On Monday, October 22nd, we're going to have Upgrade live in Chicago with Jason Snell.

01:16:16   You remember Jason from earlier.

01:16:19   And then on October 25th in New York City.

01:16:24   [APPLAUSE]

01:16:27   --will be connected.

01:16:29   That's right.

01:16:29   We're very excited about doing more shows this year.

01:16:33   We're calling it a mini tour.

01:16:34   It's only two cities.

01:16:35   I don't know if that's really a mini tour.

01:16:36   The Penn Edict will be in Toronto.

01:16:38   The Penn Edict will be in Toronto.

01:16:38   I don't think this audience cares about that as much.

01:16:41   No.

01:16:41   [APPLAUSE]

01:16:43   Yeah.

01:16:44   But yeah, this is part of a little mini tour

01:16:46   that we're doing, Stephen, as the vice

01:16:49   president of live events.

01:16:50   Senior.

01:16:51   Senior vice president of live events.

01:16:53   We really want to start doing more of these live shows because we love to do them.

01:16:57   So this is a start of that.

01:16:59   So how do people get tickets?

01:17:01   So if you are a Relay FM member, you're going to get an email on Friday.

01:17:05   Which gives you enough time to sign up to become a member if you want a ticket.

01:17:10   If you want to do that, it'd be really swell.

01:17:13   Relay.fm says membership.

01:17:15   Yeah, that's the one.

01:17:17   So members will get an email on Friday.

01:17:19   They are limited seating.

01:17:21   So members are gonna get the first shot,

01:17:23   and then they will go, if there are any left,

01:17:24   will go on public sale the next week sometime.

01:17:26   So keep an eye on Twitter.

01:17:29   But we're super excited about this.

01:17:30   We've, like Myke said, we enjoy live shows,

01:17:33   but they're hard to do because we only get together

01:17:37   as a nerdy family a couple times a year.

01:17:39   And so we're gonna bring it to y'all.

01:17:42   - But that's it.

01:17:42   - That's it. - Thank you so much

01:17:44   for coming to our show.

01:17:45   (audience applauding)

01:17:47   And thanks to our friends again,

01:17:48   thanks to you for coming,

01:17:49   Thanks to all guests and to our host.

01:17:52   We'll see you next time.

01:17:53   Adios.

01:17:54   [APPLAUSE]

01:17:57   [ Applause ]

01:17:59   [ Applause ]