Connected

00:00:00 ◼   ► [ Music ]

00:00:06 ◼   ► >> Good evening.

00:00:07 ◼   ► [ Cheering and Applause ]

00:00:13 ◼   ► This is a box of mystery for later.

00:00:17 ◼   ► Just going to leave that there.

00:00:19 ◼   ► Thanks for coming.

00:00:21 ◼   ► My name is Stephen Hackett.

00:00:22 ◼   ► I'm the non-British co-founder of Relay FM.

00:00:25 ◼   ► I'm the one -- when we're on phone calls,

00:00:28 ◼   ► People always ask Myke questions because they want to hear him talk. And frankly I feel

00:00:32 ◼   ► a little slighted by that so I get to come out first tonight.

00:00:36 ◼   ► Thanks for coming. As some of you know we had a bit of an adventure

00:00:40 ◼   ► to get here tonight with a last minute venue change.

00:00:44 ◼   ► And we owe a big thanks to Microsoft for making tonight possible.

00:00:48 ◼   ► Now I want you to give them a round of applause.

00:00:52 ◼   ► [ applause ]

00:00:56 ◼   ► Remember that Macworld, some of you remember, I know Jason Snell will remember this because he's

00:01:00 ◼   ► very old. There was a

00:01:04 ◼   ► key, he's backstage yelling at me. There was a keynote

00:01:09 ◼   ► where Microsoft kind of saved Apple. So Steve Jobs is on stage

00:01:13 ◼   ► and there's a giant Bill Gates behind him. This is like that

00:01:17 ◼   ► but not weird. If you haven't seen that, go look it up on YouTube.

00:01:21 ◼   ► It's really a trip. Before we get started,

00:01:25 ◼   ► I think they said it before. Put your phones on vibrate if you don't mind.

00:01:29 ◼   ► If you're running the iOS 12 beta that may not work so just shove it under your seat.

00:01:33 ◼   ► So I think we're gonna get started. We have a

00:01:37 ◼   ► great show planned tonight. We've got a couple different segments so you're gonna see a bunch

00:01:41 ◼   ► of relay people up here. But let's get started. Please welcome to the stage

00:01:45 ◼   ► Jason Snell and Serenity Caldwell.

00:01:49 ◼   ► [ applause ]

00:01:53 ◼   ► [applause]

00:01:57 ◼   ► That was 1997, Steven, 1997, Bill Gates.

00:02:00 ◼   ► I was 11.

00:02:02 ◼   ► [laughter]

00:02:04 ◼   ► About that for me too. Sorry, Jason.

00:02:06 ◼   ► [sigh]

00:02:08 ◼   ► You were three? That's way worse.

00:02:10 ◼   ► I'm waiting for somebody to say, "Who's Bill Gates?"

00:02:13 ◼   ► [laughter]

00:02:15 ◼   ► - Don't be a rescue. - Alright.

00:02:16 ◼   ► "Who's Steve Jobs?"

00:02:17 ◼   ► [laughter]

00:02:18 ◼   ► Somebody's gonna say that sometime.

00:02:19 ◼   ► Ohh.

00:02:21 ◼   ► [laughter]

00:02:22 ◼   ► Time marches on, folks.

00:02:23 ◼   ► Time marches on.

00:02:24 ◼   ► It's a little paid to be here.

00:02:25 ◼   ► That's true.

00:02:26 ◼   ► OK.

00:02:27 ◼   ► So thanks for joining me.

00:02:28 ◼   ► I want to talk a little bit, starting out,

00:02:30 ◼   ► about the future of the Mac.

00:02:32 ◼   ► Because you see, the iPad boys aren't up here yet,

00:02:34 ◼   ► so we can talk about the Mac.

00:02:37 ◼   ► I see how this works.

00:02:37 ◼   ► But first, I have a burning--

00:02:40 ◼   ► yeah, two iPads.

00:02:41 ◼   ► My Mac is in the sound booth doing real work.

00:02:43 ◼   ► Wow.

00:02:49 ◼   ► So I have a burning question.

00:02:51 ◼   ► I've thought about this a lot.

00:02:53 ◼   ► So there's a joke, maybe you've heard it on the shows,

00:02:56 ◼   ► about being in the Snell Zone.

00:02:58 ◼   ► What that means is that you're with Jason in person.

00:03:00 ◼   ► - It's true.

00:03:01 ◼   ► - And I've got a question.

00:03:01 ◼   ► What's the radius of the Snell Zone?

00:03:04 ◼   ► How far back in this theater does it go?

00:03:06 ◼   ► - You know, Earth's finest scientific minds

00:03:08 ◼   ► have considered this question, Steven.

00:03:10 ◼   ► (audience laughing)

00:03:11 ◼   ► And they have come to know,

00:03:13 ◼   ► they decided it was a really stupid question,

00:03:15 ◼   ► so they didn't answer it.

00:03:16 ◼   ► I think if you're within, if you can see me,

00:03:19 ◼   ► if you're within the sound of my voice,

00:03:20 ◼   ► you're probably in the Snell Zone.

00:03:23 ◼   ► Well, we are broadcasting--

00:03:24 ◼   ► And podcast listeners, yes.

00:03:26 ◼   ► Yes, the world is in the Snell Zone right now.

00:03:29 ◼   ► I hope you feel good.

00:03:30 ◼   ► That's terrifying.

00:03:32 ◼   ► I feel besnelled.

00:03:33 ◼   ► I've got the whole world in my hands right now.

00:03:37 ◼   ► Only for like 30 minutes.

00:03:38 ◼   ► OK.

00:03:39 ◼   ► Yeah, I got a timer going.

00:03:41 ◼   ► 28.33.

00:03:42 ◼   ► Snell Zone leaves, right then.

00:03:43 ◼   ► 28.30.

00:03:44 ◼   ► OK.

00:03:45 ◼   ► So let's talk about Mac OS.

00:03:48 ◼   ► They got an update this year, as it did every year.

00:03:50 ◼   ► Give it up for Mac OS updates.

00:03:52 ◼   ► [APPLAUSE]

00:03:54 ◼   ► Look, you have a birthday every year until you don't, Steven.

00:03:57 ◼   ► Don't take it for granted.

00:03:59 ◼   ► Man, we're so morbid tonight.

00:04:00 ◼   ► So dark.

00:04:01 ◼   ► Dark mode.

00:04:02 ◼   ► Let's talk about dark mode.

00:04:05 ◼   ► How in the world did the Mac get dark mode before iOS?

00:04:11 ◼   ► Bribery.

00:04:12 ◼   ► Bribery?

00:04:13 ◼   ► Angry video editors, angry designers.

00:04:16 ◼   ► My thought is they have that pro workflow team, right?

00:04:18 ◼   ► And they've got them all in edit caves,

00:04:21 ◼   ► working on whatever the next Mac Pro is.

00:04:23 ◼   ► And maybe they were all upset.

00:04:25 ◼   ► And they said, you got to do this or we quit.

00:04:27 ◼   ► And then they had to do it.

00:04:28 ◼   ► That's my headcanon.

00:04:29 ◼   ► So my question is, if there's dark mode now,

00:04:32 ◼   ► and logic and Final Cut Pro are already dark,

00:04:36 ◼   ► is there a light mode?

00:04:38 ◼   ► Maybe.

00:04:39 ◼   ► OK.

00:04:40 ◼   ► All right.

00:04:40 ◼   ► It's a philosophical question.

00:04:42 ◼   ► The light mode is the darkest time.

00:04:44 ◼   ► Or does it get darker?

00:04:45 ◼   ► Does Final Cut get-- can it be darker than it is now?

00:04:48 ◼   ► We'll find out.

00:04:49 ◼   ► None more Final Cut.

00:04:51 ◼   ► Sure.

00:04:52 ◼   ► Reference acknowledged.

00:04:53 ◼   ► Thank you.

00:04:54 ◼   ► They didn't, but you did.

00:04:55 ◼   ► I appreciate it.

00:04:56 ◼   ► That's a reference.

00:04:56 ◼   ► There'll be a Twitter account later.

00:04:58 ◼   ► It's fine.

00:04:58 ◼   ► So dark mode's a fun thing to talk about.

00:05:00 ◼   ► I've been running it a little bit.

00:05:02 ◼   ► It's really pretty.

00:05:04 ◼   ► But this release of Mac OS has a lot of things coming to an end.

00:05:08 ◼   ► So 32-bit apps, rest in peace, which also means, I guess,

00:05:13 ◼   ► the end of carbon.

00:05:14 ◼   ► I mean, they're still going to run this time.

00:05:16 ◼   ► They'll run this time, but this is--

00:05:17 ◼   ► Talk about just staying dark.

00:05:19 ◼   ► The ride is slowing down.

00:05:20 ◼   ► The ride is slowing down, and you know you've got to get off.

00:05:23 ◼   ► We're on the Matterhorn.

00:05:24 ◼   ► They have to put in the new seats.

00:05:25 ◼   ► Otherwise, it's just not going to run anymore.

00:05:27 ◼   ► Last year, they were like, just remember,

00:05:29 ◼   ► 32-bit apps are mortal.

00:05:30 ◼   ► And this year, they're like, and next year

00:05:32 ◼   ► is when they are going to die.

00:05:34 ◼   ► So you have that.

00:05:34 ◼   ► You have OpenGL coming to a close at some point.

00:05:40 ◼   ► We got actual boos over OpenGL.

00:05:43 ◼   ► I don't know if they're booing OpenGL or booing that OpenGL dies though.

00:05:46 ◼   ► It's hard to tell.

00:05:49 ◼   ► Some old QuickTime stuff which you and Dan have written a lot about.

00:05:51 ◼   ► That's right.

00:05:52 ◼   ► Well, I mean, I was lamenting the death of the QuickTime Player, QuickTime Player 7,

00:05:56 ◼   ► because it's really useful, but the fact is, like, the QuickTime API, so QuickTime

00:06:02 ◼   ► in all but the name of the video player which they could change next year is gone.

00:06:05 ◼   ► Gone.

00:06:06 ◼   ► Gone.

00:06:07 ◼   ► Gone.

00:06:08 ◼   ► Gone, so.

00:06:09 ◼   ► They used to do a conference about QuickTime, Steven.

00:06:10 ◼   ► I know.

00:06:11 ◼   ► I've got a sweatshirt that says QuickTime Live on it.

00:06:13 ◼   ► But you know what isn't dead? The DVD player got an update.

00:06:17 ◼   ► 64-bit DVD player, baby, but it's still a bag of hurt. It won't do Blu-rays.

00:06:22 ◼   ► No.

00:06:23 ◼   ► So why,

00:06:27 ◼   ► why now? Why have all this stuff changed? Why introduce iOS apps coming to the Mac a year early?

00:06:34 ◼   ► That's a lot of change.

00:06:36 ◼   ► It feels like there's a bunch of dots and maybe lines in between them. What, what do you see is all this mean, Jason?

00:06:42 ◼   ► Well, I think, I mean I love that Apple is being open about it, but let's be honest.

00:06:48 ◼   ► They know as well as we do that Steve Trout and Smith is going to disassemble everything

00:06:52 ◼   ► immediately, discover that there's an iOS folder inside the system folder, start taking

00:06:57 ◼   ► it apart, and he's already started to do that. The moment they released those developer

00:07:01 ◼   ► betas with those four apps that are all built based out of iOS, it was going to be obvious

00:07:06 ◼   ► to anyone rummaging through the file system. So they kinda, I mean they didn't have to

00:07:10 ◼   ► do it, but if they wanted to set the conversation and make it clear why they were doing it,

00:07:14 ◼   ► they needed to mention it. So, I mean, better that they do that than, like, stick their

00:07:18 ◼   ► fingers in their ears and say, "No, no, no, we don't know what you're talking about."

00:07:21 ◼   ► Pay no attention.

00:07:22 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:07:23 ◼   ► I mean, it still doesn't have a name, but...

00:07:25 ◼   ► Sneak peek?

00:07:26 ◼   ► Sneak peek.

00:07:27 ◼   ► Sneak peek.

00:07:28 ◼   ► Sneak peek.

00:07:29 ◼   ► So, Serenity, I know you've spent all week talking to a bunch of people, talking to a

00:07:31 ◼   ► bunch of developers and conference attendees. Do you have a sense on how people feel about

00:07:37 ◼   ► Is it a mixed bag?

00:07:38 ◼   ► Are people excited?

00:07:39 ◼   ► I know people booed OpenGL or the lack of OpenGL.

00:07:42 ◼   ► Don't know what's going on there.

00:07:43 ◼   ► - Well, I think people are really excited

00:07:44 ◼   ► about the DVD player, no.

00:07:45 ◼   ► (audience laughing)

00:07:47 ◼   ► I honestly, I've heard tentative optimism

00:07:50 ◼   ► about Project Sneak Peek and all of the excitement

00:07:53 ◼   ► that comes within it.

00:07:55 ◼   ► Not so much because I think people are really like,

00:07:57 ◼   ► yeah, iOS on the Mac.

00:08:00 ◼   ► But I think as I said to your co-founder yesterday on query

00:08:04 ◼   ► because you were otherwise engaged.

00:08:07 ◼   ► It's one of the few times where the Mac,

00:08:12 ◼   ► we can actually point to it and say,

00:08:13 ◼   ► "Hey, we get to run all of the software now."

00:08:17 ◼   ► iOS is still limited to just its stuff,

00:08:19 ◼   ► but the Mac, we develop all of our software on the Mac,

00:08:22 ◼   ► and now we can run all of our apps.

00:08:24 ◼   ► We can even virtualize CarPlay now in the Xcode simulator.

00:08:29 ◼   ► And even though it may not feel like a huge win to say,

00:08:32 ◼   ► "Oh yes, I really, really, really wanted to run my iOS app

00:08:36 ◼   ► "or I really wanted to play threes on my desktop,"

00:08:40 ◼   ► although I kinda did.

00:08:41 ◼   ► I think it's a potentially really good sign

00:08:46 ◼   ► for the future of the Mac saying,

00:08:49 ◼   ► "Yeah, we kind of recognize that yes,

00:08:51 ◼   ► "there's this opening on the consumer side,

00:08:54 ◼   ► "but also let's really show you

00:08:56 ◼   ► "that the Mac is the all-purpose tool."

00:08:58 ◼   ► Not that the iPad isn't great, as evidenced,

00:09:02 ◼   ► but the Mac is where we're currently doing

00:09:05 ◼   ► all of our software development.

00:09:06 ◼   ► And as such, it makes sense to have access

00:09:08 ◼   ► to all of those tools.

00:09:10 ◼   ► - Jason, you wrote something on Macworld this week.

00:09:14 ◼   ► - Oh yeah.

00:09:15 ◼   ► - The Mac in 2020.

00:09:16 ◼   ► And I don't wanna put words in your mouth,

00:09:19 ◼   ► but I believe what you said is all the stuff

00:09:21 ◼   ► that Srinidhi just said means the Mac is actually done for.

00:09:24 ◼   ► - Well, again, which is dark mode.

00:09:27 ◼   ► We're back in dark mode now.

00:09:28 ◼   ► - Yeah, it did take a turn though,

00:09:29 ◼   ► 'cause I had that moment where I thought,

00:09:31 ◼   ► it is fantastic, I think, that you're gonna be able

00:09:33 ◼   ► to take the efforts of iOS developers

00:09:36 ◼   ► and that powerful, popular platform, that's a lot of Ps,

00:09:40 ◼   ► and make it available on the Mac, like that's huge.

00:09:43 ◼   ► And there are so many places where, as a Mac user,

00:09:45 ◼   ► you end up getting told, I spend eight hours a day

00:09:47 ◼   ► in front of an iMac Pro, you end up getting told,

00:09:49 ◼   ► well, there's a web browser for that,

00:09:50 ◼   ► or there's an Electron app for that.

00:09:52 ◼   ► And so having the ability to have some of these apps

00:09:56 ◼   ► that just are never gonna come to the Mac,

00:09:59 ◼   ► but they might if their developer

00:10:00 ◼   ► has a fairly easy way to get it over.

00:10:02 ◼   ► I think that's huge.

00:10:04 ◼   ► And so I like the idea of thinking that the Mac

00:10:06 ◼   ► is almost like a professional superset of iOS

00:10:09 ◼   ► in the future potentially.

00:10:10 ◼   ► Like the Mac, I think Craig Federighi said to Wired,

00:10:14 ◼   ► like the Mac is all of these things

00:10:16 ◼   ► like plugging in a bunch of monitors

00:10:18 ◼   ► and plugging in a bunch of hard drives

00:10:19 ◼   ► and ergonomics with a mouse and a keyboard

00:10:22 ◼   ► that iOS is not.

00:10:24 ◼   ► And that's all true, but where I kind of lost it

00:10:28 ◼   ► was the thought about the progression of iOS

00:10:30 ◼   ► as a platform.

00:10:32 ◼   ► I don't think Apple's going to stop growing and progressing

00:10:35 ◼   ► with iOS.

00:10:36 ◼   ► And the more iOS grows, the more it pushes into those areas

00:10:40 ◼   ► where right now the Mac is different.

00:10:42 ◼   ► It's part of that superset.

00:10:44 ◼   ► And that's my--

00:10:45 ◼   ► I think the open question is, where does Apple draw the line,

00:10:48 ◼   ► or does Apple sort of let iOS continue to progress until--

00:10:52 ◼   ► If the Mac is sort of in opposition to iOS,

00:10:55 ◼   ► it's sort of like, it's what iOS isn't.

00:10:57 ◼   ► What happens as iOS continues to grow?

00:10:59 ◼   ► Does the Mac adapt, or does the Mac become kind of more

00:11:02 ◼   ► and more a niche product?

00:11:03 ◼   ► And that's what it took a turn.

00:11:05 ◼   ► It was a little darker.

00:11:06 ◼   ► It was a little dark.

00:11:07 ◼   ► I mean, I think you're right.

00:11:08 ◼   ► I think there's some tension there,

00:11:09 ◼   ► because if you look at the way computers evolve,

00:11:12 ◼   ► we ended up with the Mac and the PC as we know them today.

00:11:15 ◼   ► And it seems inevitable if Apple keeps

00:11:16 ◼   ► pushing the iPad that it will follow that well-worn path.

00:11:20 ◼   ► And I struggle, because maybe I don't have a good imagination.

00:11:24 ◼   ► I just run a podcast network.

00:11:25 ◼   ► I'm not a computer scientist.

00:11:27 ◼   ► To see how the iPad could evolve and not

00:11:29 ◼   ► run into the Mac's territory, it seems inevitable.

00:11:32 ◼   ► Well, I think it's less about running into the Mac's

00:11:34 ◼   ► territory, because yes, it's already taking--

00:11:37 ◼   ► I can do so much more with my iPad

00:11:39 ◼   ► now than I could when it was released in 2010.

00:11:42 ◼   ► But I still think that I'm using the two

00:11:43 ◼   ► things for different tasks.

00:11:46 ◼   ► I can do the same tasks on my Mac that I do on my iPad.

00:11:49 ◼   ► But as the iPad is evolving, I'm using it for more very specific niche tasks that I

00:11:54 ◼   ► was never really able to use a Mac for.

00:11:57 ◼   ► All the sketching and drawing stuff that I do digitally, you know, I had Wacom tablets

00:12:01 ◼   ► growing up and it's not like the experience is really nothing like being able to go outside,

00:12:07 ◼   ► sit down under a tree and draw digitally and have the full freedom of drawing digitally.

00:12:12 ◼   ► And like that's, there are a whole bunch of potentials of like potential different aspects

00:12:17 ◼   ► that I think the iPad can hit.

00:12:19 ◼   ► And yes, it might touch up against the Mac, but I don't think the future is iOS versus

00:12:24 ◼   ► Mac.

00:12:25 ◼   ► I think it's how do we intertwine them and find a way to make them work in concert with

00:12:29 ◼   ► each other.

00:12:30 ◼   ► I go back to this hope that I had when the iPad was first announced, where I was like,

00:12:36 ◼   ► you know what would be really cool?

00:12:38 ◼   ► Forget this keyboard and mouse thing.

00:12:40 ◼   ► I want the power of a Mac, and then I want to essentially, like, this is going to date

00:12:44 ◼   ► me, PowerBook Duo my iPad into the Mac, right?

00:12:49 ◼   ► And then I have a multi-touch controller but for my iMac Pro.

00:12:53 ◼   ► And then I, and because of magical hardware rejiggery, both of those chips can work in

00:12:59 ◼   ► tandem because, you know, the hardware team at Apple is brilliant and Johnny Cerucci is

00:13:03 ◼   ► brilliant, and that would be magic.

00:13:05 ◼   ► Like, that's the future I want.

00:13:07 ◼   ► That is the light timeline right there.

00:13:09 ◼   ► Yeah, that's positive.

00:13:11 ◼   ► And I was gonna, I was gonna say, positive, speaking of positivity, I think you could

00:13:17 ◼   ► argue that the future of the Mac is much brighter today and much more interesting because if

00:13:23 ◼   ► you've got this influx of apps from iOS, if you think about it, those are apps that are

00:13:28 ◼   ► understand native touch as well as being adapted for the keyboard and the mouse. It means that

00:13:34 ◼   ► if Apple wanted to, it's a lot easier to get to the point where Apple made a convertible

00:13:37 ◼   ► device that could sort of act like a tablet with those apps but could also be a laptop.

00:13:43 ◼   ► And right now the Mac couldn't do that because the Mac is not built for touch.

00:13:47 ◼   ► But in a future scenario where a lot of the apps on the Mac are built for touch, then

00:13:52 ◼   ► Apple has that option.

00:13:53 ◼   ► And right now they say they're never going to do a touchscreen Mac because what are they

00:13:57 ◼   ► going to say?

00:13:58 ◼   ► They are?

00:13:59 ◼   ► They're never going to talk about a future product.

00:14:01 ◼   ► But it certainly opens the possibility for the Mac to, the lines to blur a little bit

00:14:05 ◼   ► and for the Mac to be more versatile than it is today, which is cool.

00:14:08 ◼   ► That's good for the Mac.

00:14:09 ◼   ► Well, we ended in a brighter place.

00:14:10 ◼   ► So let's leave it there and leave the Mac in a happy place.

00:14:13 ◼   ► I'll tell you about our first sponsor.

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00:14:45 ◼   ► like building the cloud, test on real devices,

00:14:49 ◼   ► automatically, automatically, it happens on its own.

00:14:53 ◼   ► Automatically. - Magically?

00:14:54 ◼   ► - Yeah, automatically.

00:14:55 ◼   ► - It sends stuff out to beta testers and the app store.

00:14:58 ◼   ► You can monitor your apps with real-time crash reports

00:15:01 ◼   ► and you can even add in pre-built AI services

00:15:04 ◼   ► to make your apps more intelligent.

00:15:06 ◼   ► And if you're a game developer,

00:15:07 ◼   ► you get a complete backend platform for iOS games

00:15:10 ◼   ► with real-time analytics, player management,

00:15:13 ◼   ► live ops, and more.

00:15:14 ◼   ► Here's what you need to do.

00:15:16 ◼   ► Go check out this page they've set up.

00:15:17 ◼   ► It'll be in the show notes,

00:15:18 ◼   ► but the URL is aka.ms/iosandazure.

00:15:23 ◼   ► Microsoft, they're in town this week.

00:15:25 ◼   ► They've made a bunch of great stuff possible

00:15:27 ◼   ► for our community, AltConf, this show, ATP, the talk show.

00:15:31 ◼   ► They're big supporters of this community,

00:15:34 ◼   ► and that time of weirdness between us and Microsoft

00:15:37 ◼   ► as well in the past, they're great people.

00:15:40 ◼   ► Big thanks to Microsoft for supporting our live show,

00:15:43 ◼   ► for making this possible, and for supporting Relay FM.

00:15:46 ◼   ► (audience applauding)

00:15:49 ◼   ► Microsoft.

00:15:49 ◼   ► - Microsoft.

00:15:50 ◼   ► - All right, so in our few minutes left,

00:15:54 ◼   ► I wanna talk a little bit about the Mac App Store.

00:15:58 ◼   ► Another place before this week we thought was in the dark,

00:16:02 ◼   ► but now it has come into the light.

00:16:04 ◼   ► There's a Star Wars reference in there somewhere.

00:16:07 ◼   ► So some big apps, I think for our community the news is,

00:16:10 ◼   ► some big apps that people we know and trust

00:16:12 ◼   ► are coming back to the App Store.

00:16:14 ◼   ► Apps like Transmit and BB Edit left years ago,

00:16:18 ◼   ► coming back, announced on stage, which is pretty awesome.

00:16:22 ◼   ► And it seems to be that there have been some changes

00:16:24 ◼   ► behind the scenes that make this possible.

00:16:25 ◼   ► Wren, what can you say about that?

00:16:28 ◼   ► - Oh boy, that's a good question.

00:16:30 ◼   ► So from what I understand, the Mac App Store,

00:16:33 ◼   ► we've looked at it from a long time as,

00:16:35 ◼   ► oh, sandboxing is kind of evil, right?

00:16:38 ◼   ► Oh, it takes away everything,

00:16:40 ◼   ► and it takes away our ability to do things.

00:16:41 ◼   ► And it's true in a way in that it was definitely

00:16:45 ◼   ► a new way of navigating around complex security issues,

00:16:49 ◼   ► and it's had some ups and downs throughout the years.

00:16:52 ◼   ► And there are certain things that we kind of took

00:16:54 ◼   ► for granted as Mac apps, being able to access root,

00:16:58 ◼   ► for example, and say, hey, I need to modify

00:17:00 ◼   ► the permissions of that file.

00:17:02 ◼   ► And it's something that sandbox really didn't know

00:17:04 ◼   ► how to do or how to deal with.

00:17:07 ◼   ► And it sounds like that Transmit and BBEdit are-- yes,

00:17:14 ◼   ► I was like-- and Barebones, which is not

00:17:16 ◼   ► the name of the app, and Rich Segal.

00:17:18 ◼   ► Transmit and BBEdit are coming back to the Mac App Store

00:17:22 ◼   ► in part because they've figured out a way to solve this problem

00:17:26 ◼   ► without taking away sandboxing and solve it

00:17:28 ◼   ► for all developers, which is pretty cool.

00:17:30 ◼   ► So I don't know the nitty gritty stuff of it,

00:17:34 ◼   ► and we'll see probably more in the fall.

00:17:36 ◼   ► But it does sound pretty promising, honestly,

00:17:40 ◼   ► that as the platform is evolving and as the security team is

00:17:44 ◼   ► able to do more and more tweaks and ways to support the Mac

00:17:50 ◼   ► developers without taking away our security and our privacy--

00:17:53 ◼   ► and we've seen with Spectre and everything else

00:17:56 ◼   ► that the Mac is just as vulnerable to certain things

00:17:59 ◼   ► as any platform at this point.

00:18:02 ◼   ► So we really want to make sure that all of that

00:18:05 ◼   ► comes together.

00:18:06 ◼   ► But I'm pretty excited about it, honestly.

00:18:09 ◼   ► It may not be where it is right now,

00:18:11 ◼   ► but the fact that they're really putting not only some effort

00:18:14 ◼   ► behind it, but clearly both DevRel and the folks--

00:18:18 ◼   ► I'm sure this was a multi-part process to talk to Panic,

00:18:22 ◼   ► to talk to Barebones, to talk to a whole bunch of--

00:18:25 ◼   ► I'm sure there are other developers that

00:18:26 ◼   ► are being talked to that we haven't heard about, right?

00:18:29 ◼   ► They can't like, you only have a certain number of names

00:18:32 ◼   ► up there on that stage to preview.

00:18:34 ◼   ► But I don't know, I feel tentatively,

00:18:38 ◼   ► I'm gonna go back to my earlier statement,

00:18:39 ◼   ► I feel tentatively hopeful about the future

00:18:44 ◼   ► of the Mac and Mac software.

00:18:45 ◼   ► And you know, I mean, all three of us

00:18:47 ◼   ► kind of like love the Mac, right?

00:18:49 ◼   ► We have a special place in our heart for it.

00:18:52 ◼   ► And I'm sure many of you out in the audience

00:18:53 ◼   ► and people who are listening do too.

00:18:56 ◼   ► And it really excites me the fact

00:18:58 ◼   ► They're trying to actually make the Mac App Store maybe worth

00:19:01 ◼   ► playing in.

00:19:02 ◼   ► But it's not perfect yet, as we might well

00:19:05 ◼   ► see if we continue to talk about other Mac App Store things,

00:19:08 ◼   ► which I'm guessing we might.

00:19:09 ◼   ► There's some more things in the Google Sheet.

00:19:11 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:19:12 ◼   ► Oh, hey, look at that.

00:19:13 ◼   ► There's a Google Sheet.

00:19:14 ◼   ► It is.

00:19:14 ◼   ► I thought we were just making all this up.

00:19:16 ◼   ► Sorry, I work in the cloud team.

00:19:18 ◼   ► Take action, everybody.

00:19:21 ◼   ► So the other, I think, big App Store story--

00:19:22 ◼   ► it's not just the Mac, but I think

00:19:24 ◼   ► it's most interesting on the Mac is free trials.

00:19:29 ◼   ► And so I've been a little out of the loop

00:19:31 ◼   ► and you did air quotes.

00:19:32 ◼   ► So what's the fine print here?

00:19:35 ◼   ► - Faux free trials?

00:19:36 ◼   ► Well, it's basically just the app store guidelines

00:19:40 ◼   ► have now kind of reworded things being like,

00:19:43 ◼   ► well, if you would like to offer free trials,

00:19:46 ◼   ► you can basically do the same work around

00:19:47 ◼   ► that Omni did in 2016 to offer free trials

00:19:50 ◼   ► by basically offering a free app

00:19:52 ◼   ► and then saying in very bold letters, 14 day free trial,

00:19:56 ◼   ► and then offering your full app as an in-app purchase.

00:19:59 ◼   ► But for the record, as your free app,

00:20:01 ◼   ► you should probably have some kind of functionality.

00:20:05 ◼   ► That was verbatim, no.

00:20:07 ◼   ► But it's basically more or less what they're saying

00:20:10 ◼   ► is they did not give us magically here.

00:20:13 ◼   ► Now it's a nice little dropdown

00:20:15 ◼   ► if you want a free app, a paid app,

00:20:17 ◼   ► or a free trial and then paid app.

00:20:19 ◼   ► It's still kind of work in progress.

00:20:23 ◼   ► And part of me honestly think that that

00:20:25 ◼   ► is because App Store is still not convinced that enough

00:20:28 ◼   ► people want to use this feature.

00:20:31 ◼   ► So developers, users, people who buy software,

00:20:34 ◼   ► let's prove the Mac App Store wrong

00:20:36 ◼   ► and that free trials are great and really

00:20:39 ◼   ► should be a standard feature.

00:20:40 ◼   ► Use that bug reporter app.

00:20:43 ◼   ► But in all seriousness, this work around,

00:20:47 ◼   ► I'm glad that it's in the App Store review guidelines now.

00:20:49 ◼   ► But it really does seem like a, OK, we'll

00:20:51 ◼   ► do this because people have been asking for it

00:20:53 ◼   ► and it gives developers more guidelines.

00:20:56 ◼   ► But we really don't think that we

00:20:58 ◼   ► need to spend the development time building this

00:21:00 ◼   ► into our software.

00:21:01 ◼   ► Yeah, it's like a hack on the in-app purchase.

00:21:03 ◼   ► It's an in-app purchase that opens the app up.

00:21:07 ◼   ► And because it's an in-app purchase,

00:21:09 ◼   ► you can't do all sorts of things with it,

00:21:11 ◼   ► like share it with a family.

00:21:12 ◼   ► And there are all of these other issues with it.

00:21:15 ◼   ► But it's better than nothing.

00:21:16 ◼   ► and it is, yeah, it's Apple codifying, saying,

00:21:18 ◼   ► yeah, okay, you can do what Omni did if you really want to.

00:21:21 ◼   ► But it's still a little bit of a hack of the system,

00:21:24 ◼   ► but it's good that at least it's clear that it's allowed.

00:21:27 ◼   ► It's better than nothing.

00:21:28 ◼   ► - Yes, I am all for the Mac App Store

00:21:31 ◼   ► and all of the App Stores, honestly,

00:21:32 ◼   ► being more clear both with developers and end users.

00:21:36 ◼   ► I know in the earlier years of the Mac App Store,

00:21:39 ◼   ► we had a lot of a, like, very, not in translucence, right,

00:21:42 ◼   ► very much opaque rules,

00:21:45 ◼   ► and some people were getting through this

00:21:46 ◼   ► and some people weren't, and the more clarity

00:21:50 ◼   ► that they can offer on that, the better.

00:21:51 ◼   ► - Phil Schiller taking over the App Store process.

00:21:54 ◼   ► I mean, we saw a lot of things with App Review speeding up,

00:21:56 ◼   ► we saw a lot of things with changes in the iOS App Store.

00:21:59 ◼   ► It definitely feels like the Mac App Store

00:22:02 ◼   ► was kinda like, okay, we all know the iOS App Store is huge,

00:22:05 ◼   ► the Mac App Store is small, so priorities, got it.

00:22:08 ◼   ► But clearly in this last year,

00:22:10 ◼   ► they have been paying attention to the Mac App Store too.

00:22:13 ◼   ► We see it where they're going to do the editorial content

00:22:16 ◼   ► that they brought last year to iOS

00:22:18 ◼   ► is going to be on the Mac App Store

00:22:19 ◼   ► with the original stories that are being written

00:22:22 ◼   ► by a mysterious group of editors who can't

00:22:25 ◼   ► be named inside of Apple.

00:22:26 ◼   ► Mysterious.

00:22:26 ◼   ► And some beautiful artwork that gets commissioned.

00:22:29 ◼   ► And it's beautiful.

00:22:30 ◼   ► They're going to do that for the Mac too, which is great.

00:22:33 ◼   ► But if that's all they were doing, they would be--

00:22:37 ◼   ► they'd run out potentially pretty fast of stuff

00:22:40 ◼   ► to write about.

00:22:41 ◼   ► Because they need to also change the guidelines.

00:22:44 ◼   ► Change the culture.

00:22:45 ◼   ► And no, I'm-- yeah.

00:22:46 ◼   ► It's exciting to think that--

00:22:49 ◼   ► we always said they should just change their policies.

00:22:51 ◼   ► And it sounds like they're like, no, we're

00:22:52 ◼   ► not going to change our policies,

00:22:53 ◼   ► but we're going to add features that allow apps

00:22:55 ◼   ► to ask to have more power.

00:22:58 ◼   ► And that works.

00:22:59 ◼   ► That's great.

00:23:00 ◼   ► Totally.

00:23:01 ◼   ► One last thing I want to talk to you about.

00:23:03 ◼   ► My timer just changed color, so it's a good time

00:23:05 ◼   ► to move to this.

00:23:07 ◼   ► Screen time.

00:23:07 ◼   ► So this is not coming to the Mac.

00:23:10 ◼   ► since I was only at this point,

00:23:11 ◼   ► but I wanted to talk to you all about it.

00:23:14 ◼   ► It's this collection of features.

00:23:15 ◼   ► So a user can go in and see a weekly report

00:23:18 ◼   ► to see how much time they spend on Instagram, too much.

00:23:21 ◼   ► How much time they spend on YouTube, too much.

00:23:23 ◼   ► You can do limits.

00:23:24 ◼   ► You can say, I only want to spend

00:23:25 ◼   ► you know, X amount of minutes on Twitter.

00:23:29 ◼   ► And then after that time's up, you get a pop-up that says,

00:23:31 ◼   ► hey, sorry, time's up.

00:23:33 ◼   ► You can override that of course,

00:23:34 ◼   ► if you really got to see what the president's tweeting.

00:23:37 ◼   ► But you can obey your past self and move on with your life.

00:23:44 ◼   ► I find this collection of things really interesting

00:23:47 ◼   ► for a bunch of reasons.

00:23:48 ◼   ► And we talked about it on Connected a couple weeks ago.

00:23:49 ◼   ► Google is doing a similar thing in Android.

00:23:51 ◼   ► Apple said on the talk show they've

00:23:52 ◼   ► been working on this in a year.

00:23:53 ◼   ► It's not a knee-jerk thing to Google I/O.

00:23:55 ◼   ► But these companies are doing this.

00:23:57 ◼   ► And Myke said something really interesting,

00:23:59 ◼   ► that there is an inherent friction when

00:24:02 ◼   ► the maker of the device is also making things

00:24:05 ◼   ► so you don't use your device as much?

00:24:08 ◼   ► And there's a weird relationship between those two things.

00:24:13 ◼   ► And I'm curious, Jason, do you think that this is gonna be

00:24:16 ◼   ► a feature a lot of people use that's gonna really impact

00:24:18 ◼   ► the way we use our devices, or it's something

00:24:20 ◼   ► that we all feel bad about ourselves

00:24:21 ◼   ► and then just turn it off and move on?

00:24:23 ◼   ► - Well, it's funny, they're not gonna talk about it

00:24:24 ◼   ► in this context, but it's very clear from some of the charts

00:24:27 ◼   ► that this is using a lot of the same concepts

00:24:29 ◼   ► as from their health stuff, in terms of monitoring

00:24:33 ◼   ► your usage. And I think like the health stuff, it's all about, I imagine Apple employs psychologists

00:24:39 ◼   ► to talk about this sort of thing, right? That would be an interesting job. But the idea

00:24:43 ◼   ► of how do you motivate people? And this is not going to stop somebody who wants to use

00:24:47 ◼   ► their phone all the time from doing that. It's all about like the power of knowledge,

00:24:52 ◼   ► self-knowledge, that idea that I didn't realize I spent that much time and now that I know

00:24:57 ◼   ► that I spend 10 hours a day on Twitter, I can maybe set a limit at nine hours and see

00:25:02 ◼   ► how I do or whatever.

00:25:04 ◼   ► How much time are you spending on Twitter every day?

00:25:06 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:25:07 ◼   ► Have you installed the beta yet?

00:25:08 ◼   ► I don't use iOS 12 yet.

00:25:10 ◼   ► It's a lot probably.

00:25:11 ◼   ► It's probably a lot.

00:25:12 ◼   ► Although I would also like to-- can we put educational apps in

00:25:15 ◼   ► and say you really should spend more time using this app?

00:25:17 ◼   ► Like a little--

00:25:19 ◼   ► Some positive--

00:25:19 ◼   ► Do the other--

00:25:20 ◼   ► It's a 2.0 feature I'd love to do.

00:25:22 ◼   ► It's like, you have spent five hours on Twitter.

00:25:24 ◼   ► Would you like to learn a new language with Memrise instead?

00:25:28 ◼   ► Here, look at our collection on the App Store.

00:25:30 ◼   ► You could have learned this many words in Italian if you hadn't been on Twitter.

00:25:34 ◼   ► Oh God, yeah.

00:25:35 ◼   ► Don't tell me the procrastination thing.

00:25:37 ◼   ► But like Jason said, I really do think they're following the health model and to good extent.

00:25:42 ◼   ► There was I think some concern when health first came out that they were going to barrage

00:25:45 ◼   ► you with notifications of like, "Did you know that you haven't been on a walk yet

00:25:50 ◼   ► today?"

00:25:51 ◼   ► And the Apple Watch does this to a certain extent, but when it comes to health itself

00:25:55 ◼   ► on the iPhone, it's very passive and screen time is the same way.

00:25:59 ◼   ► time, when you install the iOS 12 beta, hypothetically, if you choose to do so, when you pull it up,

00:26:06 ◼   ► it's not like, "Hello, welcome to screen time, welcome to your new managed portal, we're

00:26:10 ◼   ► going to do all of this for you, you are not allowed to use your phone ever again." No,

00:26:15 ◼   ► it's a setting, right? It is a small setting that you have to go in and manually play with

00:26:21 ◼   ► and enable. And I think Apple does this in part because they want to offer these features,

00:26:26 ◼   ► You know, Craig compared it, or was it Jaws last night, who compared it to weight loss?

00:26:32 ◼   ► If you want to lose weight or if you want to track calories, and you actually want to

00:26:38 ◼   ► do it, that's when you opt in and grab the app.

00:26:40 ◼   ► But no one shoving a calorie counter in front of your face without your consent is going

00:26:45 ◼   ► to make you want to lose calories.

00:26:47 ◼   ► It's just going to make you angry at this person being like, "Why are you doing this?

00:26:51 ◼   ► Why is this thing in my face?"

00:26:53 ◼   ► So I really actually appreciate that Apple is offering such detailed and comprehensive

00:26:57 ◼   ► tools without necessarily throwing them constantly on the screen.

00:27:02 ◼   ► Yeah, you have to want to change.

00:27:06 ◼   ► But you have to be armed with information that we don't currently have.

00:27:09 ◼   ► So now we'll have it.

00:27:11 ◼   ► And I think that's great.

00:27:12 ◼   ► I've used a time tracking app on my Mac and had that moment of realization of like, what

00:27:17 ◼   ► did I do for that hour?

00:27:18 ◼   ► Did I just stare at the computer for an hour and just go into a fugue state?

00:27:22 ◼   ► - Yes, perhaps I did.

00:27:25 ◼   ► It's not good, it's not good to discover that.

00:27:26 ◼   ► - No, did I really just--

00:27:27 ◼   ► - So you want that, yeah, self-realization.

00:27:29 ◼   ► Was I looking at that webpage for that long?

00:27:31 ◼   ► - Mm-hmm, no.

00:27:33 ◼   ► - There's a lot of time on Twitter, all Twitter.

00:27:35 ◼   ► - Yeah, probably.

00:27:36 ◼   ► - I'm excited about it,

00:27:37 ◼   ► there's some parental control stuff as well,

00:27:39 ◼   ► so like, you know, if you've got kids with an iPad

00:27:40 ◼   ► or an iPhone or something, you can--

00:27:42 ◼   ► - You can see how much they're--

00:27:43 ◼   ► - You can see how much they're doing, and--

00:27:45 ◼   ► - Or a husband.

00:27:46 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:27:47 ◼   ► (audience laughing)

00:27:48 ◼   ► I think, I know in my household,

00:27:50 ◼   ► I think we're gonna do this,

00:27:51 ◼   ► And I'm very curious, like, I'm going

00:27:53 ◼   ► to be on the losing end of this.

00:27:54 ◼   ► It's like, how much do you use your phone at night?

00:27:56 ◼   ► How much do you use your phone at night?

00:27:58 ◼   ► And it's not good for me.

00:28:01 ◼   ► I'd like to see it on the Mac.

00:28:02 ◼   ► I think, like you, Jason, you run to a degree.

00:28:05 ◼   ► I spend my working day on the Mac.

00:28:07 ◼   ► And so there are lots of great apps that do that.

00:28:08 ◼   ► One of them is a sponsor tonight.

00:28:10 ◼   ► It's not a plug, just a coincidence.

00:28:12 ◼   ► But I would like to see this really be cross-platform.

00:28:15 ◼   ► Then Apple could really build a case for,

00:28:17 ◼   ► no matter where you are in our ecosystem,

00:28:19 ◼   ► you can be mindful of what you're doing.

00:28:21 ◼   ► And that feels like something

00:28:23 ◼   ► that would be an obvious win down the road.

00:28:26 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, I think that that's definitely in their roadmap.

00:28:29 ◼   ► I would be surprised if it wasn't.

00:28:30 ◼   ► It's more of a, you know,

00:28:32 ◼   ► if you're weighing and you're saying, man, all right,

00:28:35 ◼   ► can we bring dark mode to the Mac this year?

00:28:38 ◼   ► Or can we bring screen time?

00:28:40 ◼   ► And I'm guessing the dark mode won out

00:28:44 ◼   ► by like a little margin.

00:28:46 ◼   ► - Little bit.

00:28:47 ◼   ► It does look really cool.

00:28:48 ◼   ► - It does look really cool.

00:28:50 ◼   ► - And there are third party apps that do some of this.

00:28:52 ◼   ► - Totally.

00:28:53 ◼   ► - So it's not quite as desperately needed.

00:28:54 ◼   ► - It's not as urgent, right?

00:28:55 ◼   ► - Yeah, exactly.

00:28:56 ◼   ► - In my mind, we've all been in the situation

00:28:58 ◼   ► where you're watching Netflix and it comes up,

00:29:00 ◼   ► it's like, are you still there?

00:29:01 ◼   ► And in my mind, I read that in a very judgmental way.

00:29:05 ◼   ► Are you seriously still watching The Office?

00:29:08 ◼   ► And so I'm curious how I will personally respond to this,

00:29:12 ◼   ► but I'm excited because, like you said,

00:29:14 ◼   ► I think we all know that we struggle with this,

00:29:16 ◼   ► But until we have numbers, it's really hard to talk about.

00:29:19 ◼   ► And I think Apple giving us all the information

00:29:22 ◼   ► we need to better manage this is a good thing.

00:29:26 ◼   ► And maybe 2.0 on iOS will get sad emojis every time

00:29:31 ◼   ► you overstay your limit.

00:29:33 ◼   ► So it's just like, Steven.

00:29:36 ◼   ► Oh, man.

00:29:37 ◼   ► Right?

00:29:38 ◼   ► That's a guilt trip right there.

00:29:40 ◼   ► It's not the future I want.

00:29:41 ◼   ► It's syncing with your watch data.

00:29:42 ◼   ► So it would also be like, hey, Netflix guy, time to stand.

00:29:45 ◼   ► I understand.

00:29:46 ◼   ► Jason and Serenity, thank you for joining me.

00:29:49 ◼   ► Give it up for these guys.

00:29:50 ◼   ► Thanks everybody.

00:29:51 ◼   ► Thanks Steven.

00:29:52 ◼   ► Thank you.

00:29:53 ◼   ► You can find them on Twitter.

00:29:59 ◼   ► They're on a bunch of shows.

00:30:00 ◼   ► Jason writes Six Colors.

00:30:03 ◼   ► Serenity is in charge at iMore.

00:30:05 ◼   ► They make great stuff.

00:30:06 ◼   ► If you're not familiar with them, go get familiar with them.

00:30:08 ◼   ► We both do podcasts with Steven Hackett on Real AFM.

00:30:10 ◼   ► That's true.

00:30:11 ◼   ► I didn't want to...

00:30:12 ◼   ► That felt weird for me to say, but you do.

00:30:15 ◼   ► It's true.

00:30:16 ◼   ► See, that wasn't that weird.

00:30:18 ◼   ► We're connected in different ways.

00:30:19 ◼   ► That's right.

00:30:20 ◼   ► That's right.

00:30:21 ◼   ► Neither of us has a beard, though, so.

00:30:22 ◼   ► No.

00:30:23 ◼   ► I know it's weird for you.

00:30:24 ◼   ► Smooth.

00:30:25 ◼   ► You're really in the cell zone now, man.

00:30:27 ◼   ► Really glad I'm not sitting next to you.

00:30:30 ◼   ► Thank you, guys.

00:30:31 ◼   ► Thank you.

00:30:32 ◼   ► Thanks.

00:30:33 ◼   ► Since I said Jason was old earlier, let me say this.

00:30:42 ◼   ► I'm going to embarrass him.

00:30:43 ◼   ► told me eight years ago that I was gonna be on stage next to Jason Snell, my

00:30:49 ◼   ► mind would have been blown. It's amazing. Jason started that applause, that's not

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00:32:48 ◼   ► (audience applauding)

00:32:51 ◼   ► For our second segment this evening,

00:32:56 ◼   ► I would like to bring out two very handsome

00:32:59 ◼   ► young men from Europe.

00:33:00 ◼   ► Be sure to give Myke that energy he craves.

00:33:02 ◼   ► Myke Hurley, Federica Vatici.

00:33:04 ◼   ► (audience cheering)

00:33:07 ◼   ► - Yeah, that was it.

00:33:16 ◼   ► - Thank you. - There you are.

00:33:17 ◼   ► - You did it.

00:33:18 ◼   ► - Is that enough energy, Myke?

00:33:20 ◼   ► - Yeah, it was good.

00:33:21 ◼   ► - A good amount of energy?

00:33:21 ◼   ► - I mean, we can't do it again, it's done.

00:33:23 ◼   ► - I was kind of afraid that I was gonna walk out here

00:33:25 ◼   ► and just John T.C. will be there alone.

00:33:28 ◼   ► - So this is kind of better.

00:33:29 ◼   ► You're doing a good job.

00:33:31 ◼   ► - Thank you.

00:33:31 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:33:32 ◼   ► - I do have to say, this is not the first time

00:33:35 ◼   ► Connected has been on stage this week.

00:33:36 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:33:38 ◼   ► - We've had a great week so far.

00:33:40 ◼   ► - So we're watching the keynote.

00:33:43 ◼   ► Federico's in the room.

00:33:46 ◼   ► Myke is here in San Jose.

00:33:47 ◼   ► I'm watching it alone.

00:33:49 ◼   ► And all of a sudden they're talking about

00:33:52 ◼   ► podcasts on watchOS and I was super psyched

00:33:55 ◼   ► for Marco Armin, you know, super psyched

00:33:57 ◼   ► for all these podcast apps to come with the watch.

00:33:59 ◼   ► And then it got a little bit sweeter

00:34:01 ◼   ► because a very familiar rainbow colored globe

00:34:04 ◼   ► was the example artwork.

00:34:05 ◼   ► - Yep.

00:34:06 ◼   ► (audience cheering)

00:34:09 ◼   ► Yeah, I blacked out a little bit.

00:34:14 ◼   ► I genuinely, I know that there was like a demo

00:34:18 ◼   ► on an exercise bike, but I don't remember it.

00:34:20 ◼   ► I have no memory of it.

00:34:23 ◼   ► and I think I had to be hugged into existence again.

00:34:28 ◼   ► But it was incredible.

00:34:29 ◼   ► And obviously we are very happy because it was our show,

00:34:33 ◼   ► but I think it was a great thing for Apple

00:34:36 ◼   ► to have chosen a show like ours to show on stage.

00:34:40 ◼   ► - You would say that.

00:34:41 ◼   ► - Well, yeah.

00:34:42 ◼   ► I mean, I'd probably say it if it was ATP, probably, I think.

00:34:46 ◼   ► I don't know, I like those guys.

00:34:48 ◼   ► They're all right.

00:34:50 ◼   ► But I just think that it would've been very easy

00:34:52 ◼   ► to have a more mainstream show.

00:34:54 ◼   ► - Sure. - Showing that,

00:34:55 ◼   ► and I think that it was just another thing in a keynote

00:34:58 ◼   ► that I think was really focused towards that community.

00:35:00 ◼   ► I think we saw it in the videos at the start

00:35:02 ◼   ► and the end as well, so I think it was really great.

00:35:04 ◼   ► - Yeah, it was awesome.

00:35:05 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:35:06 ◼   ► - We have a lot of stuff to talk about,

00:35:07 ◼   ► but first, I'm very concerned about this,

00:35:09 ◼   ► because this showed up in my doc.

00:35:11 ◼   ► - Don't be concerned.

00:35:12 ◼   ► - Three minutes ago.

00:35:13 ◼   ► - All right, so I wanted to do some research

00:35:15 ◼   ► about this place, and I went online,

00:35:17 ◼   ► and I Googled San Jose Hammer Theater,

00:35:21 ◼   ► I wanted to just give you a little bit of fun facts about tall guy teachy everybody tour guide teaching

00:35:27 ◼   ► We would like to come back here next year

00:35:29 ◼   ► Don't worry. I took out all the if it's like if there's some like horrific back story

00:35:33 ◼   ► Theater was the first professional theater company here in San Jose was founded in 1980. So you were probably already like 52 or something. Yeah

00:35:42 ◼   ► 55 that fall it is named after Phil and Susan hammer. I did some research about the research about them

00:35:49 ◼   ► So Phil is an attorney. It doesn't work anymore. So he's retired. Did you call him?

00:35:54 ◼   ► Is he here? So I wanted to add him on LinkedIn

00:35:58 ◼   ► But Susan was real start of the show so Susan hammer was the was the mayor of San Jose from

00:36:08 ◼   ► 1991 to 1999

00:36:11 ◼   ► Now the problem is that in the 1990?

00:36:14 ◼   ► unfortunately

00:36:16 ◼   ► Rapper MC Hammer was popular

00:36:18 ◼   ► [LAUGHTER]

00:36:20 ◼   ► Why is this so unfortunate?

00:36:22 ◼   ► Because according to an article that I found,

00:36:26 ◼   ► kids who saw Susan Hammer in the street

00:36:28 ◼   ► will often shout, it's Hammer time.

00:36:30 ◼   ► [LAUGHTER]

00:36:32 ◼   ► [APPLAUSE]

00:36:36 ◼   ► And not only that, but according to the Mercury News,

00:36:39 ◼   ► which is a website here, the word--

00:36:42 ◼   ► It's more than just a website.

00:36:44 ◼   ► Also, you can visit that website anywhere.

00:36:46 ◼   ► You don't have to be just here to see it.

00:36:48 ◼   ► On this local network, you can visit--

00:36:50 ◼   ► World Wide Web.

00:36:51 ◼   ► Is that how net neutrality works?

00:36:53 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:36:55 ◼   ► So Susan had a few nicknames.

00:36:58 ◼   ► So she loves-- she loves-- she's still alive.

00:37:01 ◼   ► She loves tennis.

00:37:03 ◼   ► And so some folks used the color Mayor Topspin.

00:37:11 ◼   ► But also, off the air, some folks will refer to her as--

00:37:21 ◼   ► [LAUGHTER]

00:37:22 ◼   ► Oh my god.

00:37:22 ◼   ► [LAUGHTER]

00:37:25 ◼   ► I don't know why, but I swear I copy and paste it.

00:37:27 ◼   ► OK.

00:37:28 ◼   ► The hamster.

00:37:29 ◼   ► [LAUGHTER]

00:37:29 ◼   ► Well, yeah, because hammer, right?

00:37:31 ◼   ► Hamster.

00:37:33 ◼   ► San Jose citizens are not new to nicknames for mayors.

00:37:37 ◼   ► OK.

00:37:38 ◼   ► You may be familiar with Tom McHenry, who--

00:37:41 ◼   ► you know, the McHenry Convention Center, where WWDC happens.

00:37:45 ◼   ► He was also mayor of this city.

00:37:48 ◼   ► And he used to be called "The Prince".

00:37:51 ◼   ► - Do you know why? - He claims to be "The Prince".

00:37:56 ◼   ► Lord Mayor.

00:38:01 ◼   ► Finally.

00:38:04 ◼   ► Big Mac.

00:38:09 ◼   ► (laughter)

00:38:11 ◼   ► That's my research. Thank you so much. That was

00:38:15 ◼   ► (applause)

00:38:20 ◼   ► That was the most specific episode of UnGenius that's ever been done.

00:38:25 ◼   ► Thanks, Tom Spin.

00:38:29 ◼   ► Okay, so last week? Yep. Last week. Yep. We we don't do predictions on connected. No. Because you get into trouble.

00:38:37 ◼   ► Yep, we do what's called the happy ometer and we decide not predictions. They're not predictions

00:38:43 ◼   ► No, it's things that would make us the most happy

00:38:46 ◼   ► Completely divorced from reality

00:38:50 ◼   ► There's not that Apple should or will or ever will do these things is things that if they did this

00:38:56 ◼   ► It would be like Phil Schiller came to me and just gave me a hug and slipped this feature into my pocket

00:39:03 ◼   ► I think that's how software works goes right in there. Yep, please stop

00:39:07 ◼   ► Sorry.

00:39:08 ◼   ► [laughter]

00:39:09 ◼   ► So, we have our results.

00:39:13 ◼   ► We do.

00:39:14 ◼   ► And we'll reserve them.

00:39:16 ◼   ► As promised, we will grade these on the teachy scale.

00:39:19 ◼   ► Yes.

00:39:20 ◼   ► Which, could you please read the full teachy scale for Erica?

00:39:22 ◼   ► I have it here, physically.

00:39:23 ◼   ► We have a printout.

00:39:24 ◼   ► This is a teachy scale.

00:39:28 ◼   ► Starts from nightmare.

00:39:29 ◼   ► Nightmare.

00:39:30 ◼   ► It's real bad.

00:39:31 ◼   ► Nightmare.

00:39:32 ◼   ► Goes up to inferior minus.

00:39:33 ◼   ► It's not as bad as...

00:39:34 ◼   ► Moving on to inferior.

00:39:35 ◼   ► Yeah, then we enter the orange yellow zone of the skill decent decent. Yeah normal normal

00:39:43 ◼   ► This is where it gets good. Yep. Yep. Good. Good. It gets good at good

00:39:47 ◼   ► Or into the good section then there's good plus plus and finally there's best I love best. I love you. All right

00:39:55 ◼   ► Best I love you. Oh best. I love you, too. So I

00:40:02 ◼   ► I would say we've scored it. I think I got three things.

00:40:07 ◼   ► I got what happened to the Workflow team.

00:40:09 ◼   ► I got indications of a shared app platform, which I think nobody thought I was gonna get, but I believed in it.

00:40:15 ◼   ► And a generic emoji face and emoji.

00:40:19 ◼   ► So I think that I kind of got decent on scale. What do you think?

00:40:23 ◼   ► There would be one best I love you for Workflow.

00:40:25 ◼   ► Oh, cool.

00:40:27 ◼   ► Subscoring?

00:40:28 ◼   ► Are you just sub-scoring each pit?

00:40:30 ◼   ► I mean, this is a very complicated system you're creating.

00:40:32 ◼   ► I mean, the workflow is--

00:40:34 ◼   ► It's the best I love you.

00:40:36 ◼   ► The shared app platform--

00:40:39 ◼   ► Good?

00:40:40 ◼   ► Good.

00:40:40 ◼   ► It's not here yet?

00:40:41 ◼   ► The absolute kind of weird?

00:40:43 ◼   ► We don't need to do all of it.

00:40:44 ◼   ► We just-- overall is fine.

00:40:46 ◼   ► Overall, I would say--

00:40:47 ◼   ► Because we have a lot.

00:40:48 ◼   ► Tell another man how to use his scale.

00:40:50 ◼   ► There's like another--

00:40:51 ◼   ► [LAUGHTER]

00:40:51 ◼   ► Hold on.

00:40:52 ◼   ► There's like another nine more.

00:40:53 ◼   ► That's true.

00:40:54 ◼   ► We're going to be here a long time.

00:40:55 ◼   ► I think it's the Animoji that brings you down to normal.

00:40:58 ◼   ► Hey, come on.

00:40:59 ◼   ► You mentioned the yellow face.

00:41:01 ◼   ► That is not a--

00:41:01 ◼   ► That is true.

00:41:02 ◼   ► I thought you were going to mention that.

00:41:03 ◼   ► He forgot the smiley standard.

00:41:04 ◼   ► Yeah, that's true.

00:41:06 ◼   ► How'd I do?

00:41:07 ◼   ► Well, you got consolidation of gestures.

00:41:10 ◼   ► It went the wrong way.

00:41:11 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:41:12 ◼   ► Because now the iPad pulls down from the top right,

00:41:15 ◼   ► which is the wrong place.

00:41:16 ◼   ► I was-- so I'm both--

00:41:18 ◼   ► yeah, it's a nightmare.

00:41:21 ◼   ► Maybe inferior minus.

00:41:23 ◼   ► Maybe inferior minus.

00:41:24 ◼   ► HomeKit support for the Mac.

00:41:27 ◼   ► It's good.

00:41:27 ◼   ► Great. One, two fans. Improvements to the core apps.

00:41:31 ◼   ► And Finder, Finder got a lot of love.

00:41:34 ◼   ► Is that an app though? I don't think Finder is an app.

00:41:36 ◼   ► It's THE app.

00:41:38 ◼   ► It's like, is the heart A organ? Or is the heart downloaded from the app store?

00:41:43 ◼   ► Yeah, can you get it from the app store?

00:41:45 ◼   ► We don't have one of those.

00:41:46 ◼   ► Do you know what the app store is?

00:41:47 ◼   ► No, I just listened. You do now.

00:41:49 ◼   ► We do now.

00:41:50 ◼   ► Because it's getting our apps. So it's a real one.

00:41:53 ◼   ► [audience oohs]

00:41:54 ◼   ► Yeah!

00:41:55 ◼   ► [audience laughs and applauds]

00:41:59 ◼   ► So what are we given? I think like, it's like a good?

00:42:03 ◼   ► No, normal.

00:42:05 ◼   ► Normal?

00:42:06 ◼   ► Normal.

00:42:07 ◼   ► Now I wonder where this one's gonna go. We go to Federico's.

00:42:10 ◼   ► Complete notifications overhaul. Improved, customizable, do not disturb.

00:42:15 ◼   ► Re-commitment to the Mac App Store. Third party dev access to the Siri watch face.

00:42:20 ◼   ► and to improve among the screen time and digital health. Where did you score on the scale?

00:42:24 ◼   ► I mean, this is a good plus overall.

00:42:26 ◼   ► Good plus? Yeah, I think so.

00:42:28 ◼   ► Okay, so to recap, good plus normal good.

00:42:34 ◼   ► Wait, no, that shouldn't be right. You got more than I did.

00:42:37 ◼   ► I'm normal, he gets good, you get good plus.

00:42:41 ◼   ► That feels right.

00:42:42 ◼   ► You can do that.

00:42:43 ◼   ► So I think it's time to open the mystery box.

00:42:44 ◼   ► There's a mystery box.

00:42:45 ◼   ► Mystery box.

00:42:46 ◼   ► For people that can only hear this.

00:42:47 ◼   ► Steven brought a box onto the stage and it just says the word mystery on it.

00:42:51 ◼   ► And it's got like brown packing tape on it.

00:42:54 ◼   ► Doesn't look weird in any way.

00:42:56 ◼   ► It says did Amazon wrote mystery on it?

00:43:01 ◼   ► It did. Oh, interesting.

00:43:03 ◼   ► It's a I'm a deluxe prime member.

00:43:05 ◼   ► They label your boxes for you now.

00:43:06 ◼   ► OK.

00:43:08 ◼   ► Oh, ASMR.

00:43:14 ◼   ► All I told Myke was I'm spending some company money.

00:43:17 ◼   ► So I got some things to present.

00:43:20 ◼   ► - Okay. - Okay.

00:43:21 ◼   ► - Show and tell.

00:43:23 ◼   ► - Well, sort of.

00:43:25 ◼   ► But you get to take these home.

00:43:26 ◼   ► - This is the worst unboxing I've ever seen.

00:43:30 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:43:31 ◼   ► - Podcast is not YouTube.

00:43:33 ◼   ► Pull it together.

00:43:34 ◼   ► All right, so we have Myke in third place.

00:43:36 ◼   ► - Yep. - Okay.

00:43:38 ◼   ► Don't look.

00:43:39 ◼   ► - Are you gonna work this out?

00:43:40 ◼   ► - Close your eyes.

00:43:41 ◼   ► I don't know which order I put them in the box.

00:43:44 ◼   ► If you're listening at home and you're driving, don't close your eyes.

00:43:47 ◼   ► [laughter]

00:43:49 ◼   ► Please don't close your eyes.

00:43:50 ◼   ► We have three separate parcels.

00:43:53 ◼   ► Do you want to just open these a little bit quicker?

00:43:55 ◼   ► No, I think it's good.

00:43:56 ◼   ► All right.

00:43:56 ◼   ► Okay.

00:43:56 ◼   ► We're building...

00:43:57 ◼   ► Because we have to think of things to say while we're going through.

00:44:00 ◼   ► So in third place...

00:44:02 ◼   ► All right.

00:44:03 ◼   ► Drum roll!

00:44:03 ◼   ► [applause]

00:44:04 ◼   ► Oh, look at that.

00:44:05 ◼   ► We have a drum roll.

00:44:06 ◼   ► [applause]

00:44:10 ◼   ► Can you explain your prize?

00:44:11 ◼   ► I have a trophy, which is white porcelain in nature because it is a toilet.

00:44:18 ◼   ► Is it engraved anywhere?

00:44:20 ◼   ► It feels like it's too much.

00:44:21 ◼   ► What did I get? Decent? Decent? Like, what would I have gotten for nightmare?

00:44:25 ◼   ► That one.

00:44:26 ◼   ► Oh, you don't want only three.

00:44:27 ◼   ► There's only three.

00:44:28 ◼   ► So, now I have to put this toilet trophy in my luggage.

00:44:32 ◼   ► On your mantle.

00:44:33 ◼   ► And it goes on. Yep. Great. Thank you.

00:44:35 ◼   ► Your fiancé is going to love it.

00:44:38 ◼   ► She's gonna be so excited. She said I really hope that you come home with a toilet trophy

00:44:43 ◼   ► So who's next this you next I'm next this is the awkward part of this is I have to give myself an award

00:44:49 ◼   ► Yeah, this is gonna be incredible right? It's like money us. Oh there look. It's a

00:44:54 ◼   ► Gold star it's a trophy. It's even got a plaque. I don't have a plaque

00:44:59 ◼   ► It's a trophy holding a trophy

00:45:02 ◼   ► second place and it says decent

00:45:07 ◼   ► That's not fair. Why?

00:45:09 ◼   ► I am the senior vice president of trophies. Oh

00:45:12 ◼   ► My god, it's a federal code. I'm really glad Federico won because when I bought this I wanted it to go to you. Oh

00:45:19 ◼   ► Okay

00:45:23 ◼   ► It is a golden laptop, I think it's a down though

00:45:33 ◼   ► Because it has two it's one of those things with track pads and Federico's has a has a

00:45:40 ◼   ► Thing to it says happy on that champion. Why didn't I at least get a

00:45:45 ◼   ► plaque on the third place, baby

00:45:47 ◼   ► All right. Thank you Steven. Um, but these did I ever tell you the story when I almost

00:45:53 ◼   ► Won a trophy when I was a kid. No

00:45:56 ◼   ► Sounds like it's gonna be sad

00:46:00 ◼   ► All right, so when I was 10

00:46:03 ◼   ► And my dad on a Sunday thought that it would be a fun family experience to go fishing.

00:46:10 ◼   ► But instead of going to an actual lake, we went to an artificial lake where there was

00:46:16 ◼   ► a swimming pool.

00:46:17 ◼   ► Are you looking for a swimming pool?

00:46:18 ◼   ► No, it was like one of those lakes where just like they do fish stocking.

00:46:23 ◼   ► So they just throw a bunch of fish into the lake.

00:46:26 ◼   ► And you can go there as a kid and you can fish.

00:46:30 ◼   ► You're guaranteed to catch something.

00:46:31 ◼   ► I don't remember the details, but there was some kind of competition.

00:46:34 ◼   ► A disease?

00:46:35 ◼   ► What kind of a fish?

00:46:36 ◼   ► You're not catching a disease.

00:46:37 ◼   ► Oh, sorry.

00:46:38 ◼   ► You're not getting in the lake.

00:46:41 ◼   ► Did you get in the lake?

00:46:42 ◼   ► No, I didn't get into the lake.

00:46:43 ◼   ► Okay.

00:46:44 ◼   ► So they gave me all the equipment, and I was real young.

00:46:48 ◼   ► And I was like, "You've got to catch a trout or something."

00:46:51 ◼   ► That's very specific.

00:46:53 ◼   ► And there was some kind of competition.

00:46:54 ◼   ► They were going to give you some kind of medal or trophy.

00:46:58 ◼   ► And I tried for, I swear, for like four hours.

00:47:00 ◼   ► - Okay. - Oh no.

00:47:01 ◼   ► - And it's supposed to be real easy

00:47:03 ◼   ► because they literally feel that they dump fish

00:47:06 ◼   ► into the lake.

00:47:07 ◼   ► So it's basically-- - Are they alive?

00:47:09 ◼   ► - Yes, yes they are. - Okay.

00:47:11 ◼   ► - I don't know. - You gotta fish that fish.

00:47:12 ◼   ► - I don't know.

00:47:13 ◼   ► They make it really easy or something, I don't know.

00:47:15 ◼   ► - So-- - Like a net?

00:47:16 ◼   ► (audience laughing)

00:47:19 ◼   ► - So after a couple of hours, it's like,

00:47:21 ◼   ► keep trying, keep trying, you'll catch some fish.

00:47:24 ◼   ► My dad and my mom are starting to get concerned

00:47:27 ◼   ► that my self-esteem would basically be destroyed

00:47:30 ◼   ► because it was everybody.

00:47:31 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:47:32 ◼   ► It's like they talked to the organization

00:47:35 ◼   ► that was doing these things like,

00:47:36 ◼   ► "Our son is not, he can't fish."

00:47:39 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:47:41 ◼   ► But this is strange, everybody else is.

00:47:43 ◼   ► So after four hours, my dad is like,

00:47:46 ◼   ► "Maybe we should go home."

00:47:47 ◼   ► But I was real sad, I wasn't really bummed out.

00:47:50 ◼   ► And this is where it gets real bad.

00:47:54 ◼   ► - Oh. (laughing)

00:47:54 ◼   ► The company that was running this place thought that I was going to be slightly happier if I went home with a fish.

00:48:05 ◼   ► The problem was that they gave me a frozen trout from the freezer that they had.

00:48:14 ◼   ► You really should coat one.

00:48:15 ◼   ► And I went home.

00:48:17 ◼   ► I packed.

00:48:18 ◼   ► I packed this frozen trout.

00:48:23 ◼   ► When we arrived home, it smelled so bad.

00:48:27 ◼   ► My dad just dumped it into the trash.

00:48:32 ◼   ► I was traumatized for like weeks.

00:48:40 ◼   ► I mean...

00:48:42 ◼   ► I'm still not sure why this even started though.

00:48:45 ◼   ► Is this like a rite of passage in Italy?

00:48:48 ◼   ► Like every boy must catch a trout before he can become a man?

00:48:52 ◼   ► That's where I'm from. We did that in the South.

00:48:54 ◼   ► Oh, okay.

00:48:55 ◼   ► It's a different thing.

00:48:56 ◼   ► So, thank you for the award.

00:48:58 ◼   ► If only it was a fish.

00:48:59 ◼   ► I finally have one.

00:49:01 ◼   ► [Laughter]

00:49:03 ◼   ► [Applause]

00:49:04 ◼   ► Yay, Puerto Rico!

00:49:06 ◼   ► I have an important item of follow-up.

00:49:09 ◼   ► [Mimicking air whooshing sound]

00:49:10 ◼   ► Follow-up.

00:49:11 ◼   ► Follow-up.

00:49:12 ◼   ► Memoji have fixed the tiny head problem.

00:49:15 ◼   ► They're huge.

00:49:16 ◼   ► They're huge.

00:49:18 ◼   ► So if the Memoji is, which is probably my favorite feature

00:49:22 ◼   ► of iOS 12--

00:49:23 ◼   ► - Weird.

00:49:23 ◼   ► So unlike--

00:49:24 ◼   ► - If you take a picture with one of them,

00:49:26 ◼   ► the head is oversized.

00:49:27 ◼   ► So Apple listened.

00:49:29 ◼   ► We know they listen to the show and love the show.

00:49:31 ◼   ► And they fixed the tiny head problem for us.

00:49:34 ◼   ► - Let's give it up for Apple.

00:49:35 ◼   ► - Yay.

00:49:36 ◼   ► [APPLAUSE]

00:49:38 ◼   ► All right.

00:49:39 ◼   ► I have a very special ad break right now.

00:49:41 ◼   ► - Oh, man.

00:49:41 ◼   ► - Because it includes a challenge.

00:49:44 ◼   ► This episode is brought to you by Timing,

00:49:46 ◼   ► the app that can help automate your time tracking to save you

00:49:50 ◼   ► as much time as possible first.

00:49:51 ◼   ► It automatically tracks how you spend your time on your Mac,

00:49:55 ◼   ► broken down by app, website, and document.

00:49:57 ◼   ► But that's a lot of data to work through.

00:49:59 ◼   ► So timing lets you use drag and drop

00:50:01 ◼   ► to create rules that will automatically categorize

00:50:04 ◼   ► your time for you.

00:50:05 ◼   ► Timing also understands that not all of your work

00:50:07 ◼   ► will happen while you're sitting at your Mac.

00:50:09 ◼   ► So they will automatically suggest gaps in your timeline

00:50:12 ◼   ► and how to fill them so you never

00:50:13 ◼   ► forget to track that meeting or phone call.

00:50:15 ◼   ► It can even automatically ask you whatever it is you were doing when you returned to

00:50:19 ◼   ► your Mac.

00:50:20 ◼   ► Timing is so confident that you're going to love their fuss-free approach.

00:50:23 ◼   ► They offer a totally free trial.

00:50:24 ◼   ► You can download the free 14-day trial today by going to timingapp.com/connected and save

00:50:31 ◼   ► 10% when you purchase.

00:50:32 ◼   ► Now Federico, I need you to go to the clock app on your phone, please, and get a 30-second

00:50:39 ◼   ► timer ready.

00:50:41 ◼   ► Considering timing is all about time tracking. We're gonna do a time based challenge. So I have a piece of paper here

00:50:48 ◼   ► So Steven hi, we're gonna see in 30 seconds how many vintage max you can name

00:50:54 ◼   ► Can I just say

00:50:58 ◼   ► John, Syracuse is 14 feet away from me. Yeah

00:51:01 ◼   ► He gave me some like instructions. I know you made me leave the room

00:51:06 ◼   ► I don't really remember what it like

00:51:08 ◼   ► I don't he told me a thing and I don't really know what it means though. What'd he say?

00:51:13 ◼   ► Maybe I could know I won't tell you afterwards in case it gives it away. So are you ready 30 seconds? Yeah

00:51:17 ◼   ► Vintage that's just as many as you want. You say oh for I wasn't nervous at walking on stage tonight. I'm nervous about this

00:51:24 ◼   ► All right. I have a reputation. You've got to count them to Federico. Are we can all count them?

00:51:29 ◼   ► Well, you know what we can count. No, it'd be too loud to noise. I won't count. All right, you count them

00:51:33 ◼   ► You don't work this out beforehand. Oh, no, don't worry about it

00:51:36 ◼   ► Start the timer now go

00:51:38 ◼   ► original Macintosh Macintosh 512

00:51:42 ◼   ► Macintosh SE Macintosh SE 30 the most important one don't like it -

00:51:48 ◼   ► Macintosh to CI Macintosh to CX Macintosh to FX a

00:51:53 ◼   ► Bunch of quadros no one cares about that's like 30 machines right there. We'll jump forward in time

00:51:59 ◼   ► I'm not counting it. I'm at g3 power Mac g3

00:52:03 ◼   ► iBook G3, iBook G4, 14-inch iBook G4, two separate models.

00:52:08 ◼   ► Alright, that's enough of that.

00:52:08 ◼   ► We're done. 14!

00:52:09 ◼   ► Thank you very much.

00:52:11 ◼   ► You did-

00:52:11 ◼   ► I didn't-

00:52:12 ◼   ► Give it up for Steven.

00:52:13 ◼   ► I think you did alright.

00:52:14 ◼   ► You did alright.

00:52:14 ◼   ► I don't know, I lost count.

00:52:16 ◼   ► It was a lot.

00:52:16 ◼   ► It was like 150.

00:52:18 ◼   ► Yeah, 150.

00:52:19 ◼   ► So what John said to me before, he just sent me an iMessage that said, "Mac versus Macintosh?"

00:52:24 ◼   ► Mmm.

00:52:25 ◼   ► So, yeah, some- some-

00:52:27 ◼   ► He's right there.

00:52:29 ◼   ► I know.

00:52:29 ◼   ► He said something about, like, they changed the names or something.

00:52:32 ◼   ► - Starting points, yeah, I mean, you know.

00:52:35 ◼   ► Can't win 'em all.

00:52:36 ◼   ► - Should we talk about Siri shortcuts?

00:52:38 ◼   ► - Let's do it.

00:52:39 ◼   ► - We have the man right here.

00:52:41 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:52:42 ◼   ► - So Siri shortcuts.

00:52:43 ◼   ► The announcement of Siri shortcuts

00:52:47 ◼   ► was like a rollercoaster of emotion.

00:52:49 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:52:50 ◼   ► - Because I think it became very clear to all of us

00:52:53 ◼   ► pretty quickly that this was what

00:52:55 ◼   ► the workflow team were doing.

00:52:57 ◼   ► And any time workflow has been mentioned

00:53:01 ◼   ► in any way for the last year, it has been met with-- oh, is

00:53:05 ◼   ► this one instead?

00:53:06 ◼   ► Is it now?

00:53:07 ◼   ► Is it dead now?

00:53:08 ◼   ► And it definitely looked like they were doing something, and

00:53:12 ◼   ► that might mean that it was going to go away.

00:53:13 ◼   ► But then there was this whole roller coaster.

00:53:16 ◼   ► And then when we saw the UI, it's like, oh, it looks just

00:53:18 ◼   ► like workflow.

00:53:19 ◼   ► It's very much like--

00:53:20 ◼   ► When I saw the icon, I showed the icon to Casey, who was

00:53:23 ◼   ► sitting next to me.

00:53:24 ◼   ► I was like, I think this is workflow.

00:53:25 ◼   ► Yeah, you've got that intuition going on.

00:53:27 ◼   ► I guess shapes and squares and letters, it's all very

00:53:30 ◼   ► similar. So when Workflow was acquired you wrote an article talking

00:53:36 ◼   ► about kind of you outlined a bunch of different scenarios and if I'm right I

00:53:42 ◼   ► think where we are right now is best case right? Like best I love you.

00:53:46 ◼   ► Yes, it appears to be the best timeline possible so far in that not only are they

00:53:54 ◼   ► going to keep doing what Workflow used to do which is automation but they are

00:53:59 ◼   ► expanding into deep system level Siri integration.

00:54:04 ◼   ► So the Siri shortcuts that Apple showed on stage are

00:54:10 ◼   ► effectively the new way for developers to expand SiriKit

00:54:14 ◼   ► with a bunch of APIs that we can talk about briefly.

00:54:16 ◼   ► But the idea would be you can start simple with the

00:54:19 ◼   ► shortcuts, and then if you want, you can move on to the

00:54:21 ◼   ► more advanced stuff, which is what Workflow used to be.

00:54:23 ◼   ► -Would you say it's a deep and open framework?

00:54:28 ◼   ► -No.

00:54:29 ◼   ► I got it.

00:54:30 ◼   ► You got it.

00:54:31 ◼   ► I got it.

00:54:32 ◼   ► Last year in the happy-ometer Federico picked a deep and open framework for messages.

00:54:39 ◼   ► And no one knew what it meant and we asked him and he didn't.

00:54:41 ◼   ► I gave you an explanation.

00:54:42 ◼   ► But we all blacked out.

00:54:44 ◼   ► And obviously I learned from my mistake because I won and you didn't.

00:54:50 ◼   ► I didn't get that thing though.

00:54:52 ◼   ► You didn't win though.

00:54:54 ◼   ► Alright so what is actually going on here?

00:54:58 ◼   ► So there's, to simplify, there's two types of shortcuts at a high level.

00:55:03 ◼   ► There's the shortcuts that Apple showed initially, like the suggestions and

00:55:08 ◼   ► the predictive shortcuts.

00:55:09 ◼   ► Those that you can get in the spotlight search, you can get on the lock screen.

00:55:14 ◼   ► You can get as a notification, for example, to expand and pops up a menu.

00:55:20 ◼   ► And those are based, my understanding,

00:55:23 ◼   ► they're highly based on two different types of technologies.

00:55:27 ◼   ► One would be the NSUserActivity API, which is the same one that's been used for spotlight

00:55:31 ◼   ► search since, I think, iOS 9, maybe, which is basically a way to take you back into a

00:55:36 ◼   ► specific screen or piece of content into an app, like, I don't know, your favorite coffee

00:55:40 ◼   ► shop or something.

00:55:42 ◼   ► They can also use SiriKit intents, which would mean that they don't just take you into another

00:55:48 ◼   ► app.

00:55:49 ◼   ► They show you a piece of custom UI that you can interact with using simple actions built

00:55:55 ◼   ► in.

00:55:56 ◼   ► And then there's the, I think Apple calls them on the website, personalized shortcuts.

00:56:02 ◼   ► And those are the workflows that we used to put together.

00:56:05 ◼   ► >> These are like the multi-chain actions that are being created by drag and drop and

00:56:11 ◼   ► have all this, okay, has all the stuff that we used to?

00:56:15 ◼   ► >> So my understanding based on what I've seen from the screenshots from the keynote,

00:56:22 ◼   ► from the State of the Union, from sections.

00:56:24 ◼   ► Things I've heard around--

00:56:27 ◼   ► - Information you picked up from the floor.

00:56:29 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:56:30 ◼   ► - Walking around, like people dropping papers

00:56:31 ◼   ► and stuff like that.

00:56:32 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:56:33 ◼   ► You know.

00:56:34 ◼   ► - That's how it goes.

00:56:35 ◼   ► It's such a mess in the convention center.

00:56:36 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:56:37 ◼   ► The goal should be that this is a workflow replacement

00:56:43 ◼   ► in that very little, if nothing, should break

00:56:47 ◼   ► when you move on to shortcuts.

00:56:49 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:56:50 ◼   ► Of course, things change.

00:56:53 ◼   ► But my understanding is that if you look at the actions, for

00:56:55 ◼   ► example, you can see the scripting categories.

00:56:57 ◼   ► You can see the text types of actions.

00:56:59 ◼   ► You can see the magic variables.

00:57:02 ◼   ► This is all stuff that used to be in Workflow.

00:57:05 ◼   ► And especially the Scripting section, that was the one that

00:57:09 ◼   ► I was most concerned about.

00:57:10 ◼   ► MATT GAUNT: And this is like the external API access and

00:57:12 ◼   ► stuff like that?

00:57:13 ◼   ► MIGUEL D'SOUZA-MARTIN: No, that's the web section, which

00:57:15 ◼   ► is in there.

00:57:17 ◼   ► The scripting would be the conditional blocks or loops,

00:57:20 ◼   ► so that real advanced stuff for workflow.

00:57:23 ◼   ► And that's all in, in addition to new homekit integrations.

00:57:26 ◼   ► So there's the old stuff, which my hope

00:57:30 ◼   ► and my understanding so far is that your existing workflows

00:57:33 ◼   ► should not break in theory.

00:57:35 ◼   ► And also there's new actions and the simple shortcuts

00:57:40 ◼   ► that you can set up in settings in iOS 12,

00:57:44 ◼   ► the predictive shortcuts.

00:57:46 ◼   ► Those can become actions if you put together an actual workflow or personalized shortcut.

00:57:53 ◼   ► So really, this is the best workflow app that could ever exist?

00:57:59 ◼   ► In theory, yes.

00:58:00 ◼   ► Because it has all of Apple's stuff like HomeKit, which they were never going to put in before.

00:58:07 ◼   ► Plus because it's becoming a huge system feature, really we were talking about this earlier,

00:58:13 ◼   ► for iOS it is the big developer feature this year.

00:58:15 ◼   ► It's one of the only big things that developers can do over the next few months for new APIs and stuff.

00:58:21 ◼   ► So it will also be encouraging huge companies to add these shortcuts in.

00:58:28 ◼   ► So really it's like the very best it could ever be.

00:58:33 ◼   ► Mm-hmm. Yeah, this is a guaranteed best "I love you".

00:58:37 ◼   ► Yeah, I think so.

00:58:38 ◼   ► Going to the Siri team and saying "best 'I love you' for everybody".

00:58:41 ◼   ► And they're expanding it just beyond the phone or the iPad, so it's on the watch,

00:58:45 ◼   ► It's on the home pod.

00:58:47 ◼   ► It will not be on the watch as an actual app,

00:58:51 ◼   ► but you will see shortcuts on the watch as part of the Siri watch face.

00:58:55 ◼   ► Can you trigger them with Siri on the watch?

00:58:58 ◼   ► Because you can on the home pod too, right?

00:59:00 ◼   ► You should be able to do this stuff with Siri everywhere.

00:59:04 ◼   ► Apple TV Siri? No one cares.

00:59:07 ◼   ► Apple TV? Seriously?

00:59:09 ◼   ► That's not on the map.

00:59:10 ◼   ► That's what you want to know, Apple TV?

00:59:12 ◼   ► Of all the possible questions that you have in there,

00:59:15 ◼   ► Apple TV is your question?

00:59:16 ◼   ► Since the heel, you want to die on Apple TV?

00:59:18 ◼   ► Came to mind.

00:59:19 ◼   ► OK.

00:59:20 ◼   ► We do have limited time.

00:59:21 ◼   ► But what I also saw on the website

00:59:23 ◼   ► is the presence of a widget.

00:59:26 ◼   ► So Workflow used to have a widget,

00:59:28 ◼   ► and you were able to trigger workflows from the widget.

00:59:32 ◼   ► What happened was some workflows could

00:59:35 ◼   ► run from the constraints of the widget, which

00:59:37 ◼   ► was like a super minimal UI.

00:59:40 ◼   ► But if it was too complex, it would kick you back

00:59:42 ◼   ► to the workflow app, right?

00:59:44 ◼   ► So if it's based on the same system,

00:59:46 ◼   ► it's easy to imagine shortcuts that will run in the widget

00:59:52 ◼   ► and would say, hey, this is too complex for me.

00:59:54 ◼   ► If you need to enter something with a keyboard,

00:59:56 ◼   ► you need to open the main app.

00:59:58 ◼   ► But if the same system also powered the HomePod

01:00:01 ◼   ► or the watch, I can see how some shortcuts would

01:00:07 ◼   ► be able to run directly in an audio-only environment.

01:00:10 ◼   ► And others would say, you need to continue on your phone.

01:00:12 ◼   ► So this, to me, seems like it's the workflow

01:00:17 ◼   ► that we know and love, but only just growing

01:00:20 ◼   ► into more directions, only deeper in the system,

01:00:23 ◼   ► thanks to Siri and thanks to third party apps,

01:00:26 ◼   ► which is a huge focus at the sessions this year.

01:00:29 ◼   ► They want to make sure that no matter what your app does,

01:00:32 ◼   ► you can integrate with Siri, which

01:00:34 ◼   ► I think it's unexpected, because I was

01:00:38 ◼   ► surprised to see this, honestly.

01:00:40 ◼   ► What you just said there is what I've been thinking of.

01:00:42 ◼   ► Why are they doing this?

01:00:43 ◼   ► Because workflow has been considered a niche power user

01:00:47 ◼   ► app, and it was one of the reasons why

01:00:50 ◼   ► it was such a surprise that when they purchased it, it remained.

01:00:53 ◼   ► It remained in the store.

01:00:54 ◼   ► Why would Apple spend so much time and effort

01:00:58 ◼   ► into making the system better?

01:00:59 ◼   ► And I think I theorize the problem is SiriKit.

01:01:05 ◼   ► Under the current system of SiriKit,

01:01:06 ◼   ► the way that they're adding these different categories

01:01:09 ◼   ► applications, they never would get them all.

01:01:13 ◼   ► With the way that they've been doing it currently, it's going to take too long, too slow, to

01:01:16 ◼   ► add all of these different types of applications every single time.

01:01:20 ◼   ► So now they're kind of just like, well, you can kind of do anything, and we'll make it

01:01:24 ◼   ► work.

01:01:27 ◼   ► The idea would be that developers can do custom intents in circuit if they want to show any

01:01:34 ◼   ► kind of UI.

01:01:35 ◼   ► It seems like they're still doing the limited domains,

01:01:38 ◼   ► very specific domains like note taking or messaging

01:01:41 ◼   ► or payments.

01:01:41 ◼   ► But they're also allowing developers

01:01:43 ◼   ► of more generic type of utilities or something

01:01:46 ◼   ► that cannot strictly be categorized

01:01:47 ◼   ► into a single domain.

01:01:49 ◼   ► They're allowing them to make a custom intent that

01:01:51 ◼   ► can be part of shortcuts.

01:01:53 ◼   ► There's a difference between shortcuts the framework

01:01:55 ◼   ► or the system and shortcuts the app.

01:01:57 ◼   ► But the idea would be that if you're an average user,

01:02:01 ◼   ► you can just go into settings and you can save shortcuts.

01:02:04 ◼   ► For Siri, you can record a custom sentence for any type of app that you have on your phone.

01:02:08 ◼   ► If you're someone like us, I mean not Steven necessarily, but you know the two of us.

01:02:14 ◼   ► I'm sorry.

01:02:14 ◼   ► Us too.

01:02:15 ◼   ► You know the times at connector where they talk about this and I go quiet?

01:02:18 ◼   ► I'm in my office so I can like get up and walk around.

01:02:21 ◼   ► I'm stuck on stage.

01:02:22 ◼   ► Can't go anywhere.

01:02:23 ◼   ► You could just like slide under the table and just like leave.

01:02:28 ◼   ► So the idea would be that the two of us, we can go from the simple shortcuts in settings,

01:02:35 ◼   ► we can open the shortcuts app, which will be on the apps, or this is also written on the website.

01:02:40 ◼   ► I hope there will be a test flight at some point.

01:02:43 ◼   ► I reckon I'd probably just drop it into the beta at some point.

01:02:46 ◼   ► I don't think that that seems like a completely unrealistic thing to put it back.

01:02:51 ◼   ► Yeah, whatever, just put it on the beta.

01:02:53 ◼   ► we can put together these more custom, personalized shortcuts.

01:02:59 ◼   ► And what I thought was interesting is during the keynote,

01:03:02 ◼   ► I think there was a demo of a custom shortcut.

01:03:05 ◼   ► I'm going to keep saying Workflow forever.

01:03:08 ◼   ► Shortcut is a better name, though.

01:03:10 ◼   ► Yes, it is. It is.

01:03:12 ◼   ► And they were showing four to five different actions.

01:03:16 ◼   ► Something like getting directions, play the radio station,

01:03:19 ◼   ► set the thermostat to 70 degrees, whatever that means in America, I have no idea.

01:03:24 ◼   ► Is that hot? Is that cold?

01:03:25 ◼   ► It's perfect.

01:03:26 ◼   ► It's perfect. 70 is perfect? All right.

01:03:29 ◼   ► And they were showing all these actions running within the context of the Siri UI,

01:03:36 ◼   ► but if you go back and watch the keynote, you can see Siri just basically scrolling through actions.

01:03:44 ◼   ► Siri doesn't care, it just moves from action to action.

01:03:47 ◼   ► And it's awesome because it's real automation happening within Siri.

01:03:52 ◼   ► I think it's incredible.

01:03:54 ◼   ► I think it's interesting too that this is at the same time we're talking about screen

01:03:58 ◼   ► time and limiting our interactions with our phones.

01:04:02 ◼   ► Where if you take the time and invest and build a bunch of these things and you can

01:04:05 ◼   ► walk into your house and trigger a bunch of things from your watch or from the HomePod

01:04:11 ◼   ► or even just talking into Siri as opposed to going through, "I need to do this and this

01:04:15 ◼   ► and you go over and set this home kit scene to come over here,

01:04:18 ◼   ► like that's kind of two sides of a coin where if you invest in it,

01:04:22 ◼   ► you can take advantage of all this great power

01:04:25 ◼   ► but not actually pick up your phone.

01:04:27 ◼   ► That helps with the distraction thing.

01:04:29 ◼   ► One of the do not disturb enhancements

01:04:31 ◼   ► was the do not disturb during bedtime.

01:04:34 ◼   ► And I really like this because I have found it,

01:04:37 ◼   ► especially this week, because I'm on different time zones,

01:04:39 ◼   ► so people contacting me how I would usually contact you,

01:04:43 ◼   ► middle of the night.

01:04:44 ◼   ► So like I might wake up at like 4 a.m.

01:04:47 ◼   ► because also jet lag, and I look at my phone

01:04:49 ◼   ► to see the time, and then I see like a bunch of notifications

01:04:52 ◼   ► and then I'm like drawn into them,

01:04:54 ◼   ► where now it'd be like, oh, the screen is blank,

01:04:56 ◼   ► I just see the time, and that's that.

01:04:58 ◼   ► This kind of reminds me of this in a way

01:05:01 ◼   ► that you would just be, say, asking your home pod

01:05:04 ◼   ► to do a thing for you.

01:05:05 ◼   ► You never have to look at your phone.

01:05:06 ◼   ► You're not gonna be pulled in

01:05:08 ◼   ► by that Instagram notification or something.

01:05:09 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:05:10 ◼   ► Federica, let me ask you this.

01:05:12 ◼   ► When we talk about voice assistants, we talk about Amazon,

01:05:16 ◼   ► and we talk about Google, and we talk about Apple.

01:05:18 ◼   ► And until this point, Amazon has sort of ruled the show

01:05:23 ◼   ► when it comes to really just throwing the gates open

01:05:27 ◼   ► and letting users customize exactly what their instance

01:05:31 ◼   ► of the Amazon voice assistant who shall not be named,

01:05:35 ◼   ► what it does.

01:05:36 ◼   ► And it feels like to me,

01:05:37 ◼   ► someone who's not as steeped in this as you guys are,

01:05:40 ◼   ► that this feels like sort of wide open,

01:05:43 ◼   ► that Siri potentially, if developers invest in it

01:05:46 ◼   ► and spend the time to do it correctly,

01:05:48 ◼   ► that Siri is going to be flexible

01:05:51 ◼   ► and be different person to person,

01:05:53 ◼   ► that we're all gonna have our own sort of systems

01:05:56 ◼   ► built within Siri, like some people have

01:05:58 ◼   ► built within the Echo.

01:06:01 ◼   ► Do you think that that's a fair assessment?

01:06:04 ◼   ► Do you think that's what Apple sees as being,

01:06:06 ◼   ► is they want Siri to be tailored to every person

01:06:08 ◼   ► and what they need?

01:06:10 ◼   ► They're not talking about this in terms of competition

01:06:14 ◼   ► with other assistants, but I was thinking

01:06:16 ◼   ► about this the past couple of days, that in a way,

01:06:19 ◼   ► this feels to me like Apple's response to the Echo skills

01:06:24 ◼   ► ecosystem.

01:06:25 ◼   ► And if you put together all these different pieces,

01:06:28 ◼   ► the simple shortcuts that just open apps,

01:06:31 ◼   ► and the circuit integrations, and the custom circuit intents

01:06:34 ◼   ► that you can now do, and the shortcuts app,

01:06:37 ◼   ► And all these little custom phrases that you can,

01:06:39 ◼   ► these invocations that you can use to trigger stuff,

01:06:42 ◼   ► it almost feels like a response to the echo,

01:06:45 ◼   ► but in a sort of app-centric type of way.

01:06:48 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:06:49 ◼   ► - And the advantage that Apple has here,

01:06:51 ◼   ► if this strategy works, is that the setup of these,

01:06:55 ◼   ► not skills, but the setup of these shortcuts

01:06:58 ◼   ► and integrations, it's going to be so much easier

01:07:01 ◼   ► than using the Amazon app and these web pages that you go

01:07:05 ◼   ► And you say, yeah, this is my account and everything.

01:07:08 ◼   ► Because you can do it in settings.

01:07:09 ◼   ► You can do it with Siri.

01:07:10 ◼   ► You can do it in the shortcuts app.

01:07:12 ◼   ► So if the strategy works out, it's also kind of a way to

01:07:18 ◼   ► say, we don't have to make a custom domain for everything.

01:07:21 ◼   ► You guys figured it out.

01:07:23 ◼   ► So I want to see how developers adopt these APIs

01:07:29 ◼   ► this summer.

01:07:29 ◼   ► Because effectively, this is the feature, as you said, that

01:07:33 ◼   ► everybody's talking about in terms of what can we do on

01:07:35 ◼   ► on iOS this summer, well, I guess we'll do some shortcuts.

01:07:38 ◼   ► So yeah, we'll see.

01:07:39 ◼   ► - Yeah, I just thought this could be really good

01:07:42 ◼   ► for non-HomeKit smart home devices

01:07:45 ◼   ► because you would be able to still trigger them with Siri.

01:07:49 ◼   ► Right, so let's say a lighting company

01:07:52 ◼   ► that is an integrative HomeKit for whatever reason

01:07:55 ◼   ► could create an action in their application

01:07:58 ◼   ► to turn off a light.

01:07:59 ◼   ► And you could still then ask Siri to, that's cool, man.

01:08:02 ◼   ► - Or directions from something other than Apple Maps.

01:08:05 ◼   ► I mean, it really-- I don't know if it's going to go as far as

01:08:08 ◼   ► talking to Spotify, but it does open the door, to your point,

01:08:11 ◼   ► to non-Apple services and apps.

01:08:14 ◼   ► Well, speaking of Spotify and audio apps in general,

01:08:17 ◼   ► there is no media intent for Siri.

01:08:20 ◼   ► But it should be possible to do something

01:08:24 ◼   ► like if you have a Spotify playlist

01:08:26 ◼   ► and if Spotify wants to integrate with shortcuts,

01:08:29 ◼   ► they could make a button that says,

01:08:30 ◼   ► add my Discover Weekly to Siri.

01:08:34 ◼   ► And you should be able, in theory,

01:08:36 ◼   ► if this works the way I imagine it works,

01:08:38 ◼   ► you should be able to say Siri play my discovery weekly

01:08:41 ◼   ► to open whatever command you wanna use and it'll work.

01:08:44 ◼   ► So it's sort of a workaround to, as I said,

01:08:47 ◼   ► instead of doing a specific domain for everything,

01:08:51 ◼   ► to say we make a general system.

01:08:53 ◼   ► We give you a general structure that should, in theory,

01:08:57 ◼   ► work for every kind of app that you have.

01:09:00 ◼   ► - And to, not to put too fond of a point on it,

01:09:02 ◼   ► but it's also different from Amazon

01:09:04 ◼   ► and that it's all on device.

01:09:06 ◼   ► You know, like you said,

01:09:07 ◼   ► if you wanna put a skill on your Echo,

01:09:09 ◼   ► you're going in the app,

01:09:10 ◼   ► it's like, I want a Magic 8-Ball skill,

01:09:12 ◼   ► because you can do one and it's awesome.

01:09:14 ◼   ► You gotta like find a webpage,

01:09:15 ◼   ► like find which one you want,

01:09:16 ◼   ► and the voice is going out somewhere

01:09:19 ◼   ► and you don't necessarily know

01:09:20 ◼   ► what's on the other end of it.

01:09:22 ◼   ► And with like so many other things Apple does,

01:09:25 ◼   ► or the competitors put it on the cloud,

01:09:27 ◼   ► or put it on a server farm,

01:09:28 ◼   ► and then the device is just sort of a terminal to that,

01:09:31 ◼   ► this stuff is happening on device.

01:09:35 ◼   ► I mean, it's still sending stuff back and forth to the cloud,

01:09:37 ◼   ► but the bulk of it, like all that creation and editing,

01:09:40 ◼   ► it's your data, it's on your devices,

01:09:42 ◼   ► it's synced to your iCloud account.

01:09:44 ◼   ► And I think as we get more into this,

01:09:46 ◼   ► where this stuff is integrating into our homes

01:09:49 ◼   ► and into our cars and all this stuff,

01:09:53 ◼   ► that's where I want it.

01:09:54 ◼   ► I want it on the device that's in my pocket

01:09:56 ◼   ► and know that everything is encrypted

01:09:58 ◼   ► and that I'm not using a skill

01:09:59 ◼   ► built by somebody who I'm not familiar with.

01:10:00 ◼   ► So I think it's taken them a little while to get here,

01:10:03 ◼   ► but I think there's a lot of advantages

01:10:04 ◼   ► to the way they're doing it.

01:10:06 ◼   ► I'm excited, like I said, I'm not in the front lines of it,

01:10:08 ◼   ► but I'm excited to see the possibilities.

01:10:09 ◼   ► - Yeah, you can have fun with Automator.

01:10:11 ◼   ► - That's right.

01:10:11 ◼   ► - It's back, baby, they mentioned it.

01:10:13 ◼   ► - Automator got a, yeah, I mean.

01:10:15 ◼   ► - Back.

01:10:16 ◼   ► - As we work on shortcuts, you will do Automator.

01:10:19 ◼   ► - Finder action.

01:10:20 ◼   ► - Sinks.

01:10:21 ◼   ► - I'm very excited.

01:10:22 ◼   ► - That great app Finder that everyone loves, right?

01:10:24 ◼   ► - The app.

01:10:25 ◼   ► - The app. - Finder, yeah, famous app.

01:10:26 ◼   ► Top choice. - Famous app.

01:10:27 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:10:28 ◼   ► - It's best I love you.

01:10:29 ◼   ► - Finder?

01:10:30 ◼   ► I don't think it is.

01:10:31 ◼   ► John, what's decent?

01:10:34 ◼   ► Thumbs down.

01:10:35 ◼   ► That's not on the scale.

01:10:36 ◼   ► Oh my god.

01:10:36 ◼   ► Thumbs down.

01:10:37 ◼   ► Nightmare.

01:10:37 ◼   ► I think John Syracuse officially rated it a nightmare.

01:10:40 ◼   ► I think so.

01:10:42 ◼   ► So real quickly, name one dream shortcut

01:10:48 ◼   ► you think you can now make that you would not

01:10:50 ◼   ► be able to make in workflow.

01:10:51 ◼   ► That's the best question he's been asked all day.

01:10:56 ◼   ► You can't see it, but a single tear go down his cheek.

01:11:00 ◼   ► I want to make a shortcut that as I walk around the house,

01:11:07 ◼   ► I can ask the HomePod to save an idea to a text file in Dropbox.

01:11:15 ◼   ► It's pretty simple.

01:11:16 ◼   ► I know what mine is.

01:11:18 ◼   ► Start a toggle timer.

01:11:19 ◼   ► No, no, don't do time tracking on the show.

01:11:21 ◼   ► This is not Cortex.

01:11:23 ◼   ► This is not-- no.

01:11:24 ◼   ► No.

01:11:25 ◼   ► I even went so far as to looking into what it would take to build my own echo skill.

01:11:30 ◼   ► We're gonna talk about time tracking.

01:11:32 ◼   ► It would just be really nice to just be like, start a timer.

01:11:37 ◼   ► That's the end of this segment. We're done.

01:11:39 ◼   ► Okay.

01:11:40 ◼   ► Federico, thank you for joining us.

01:11:42 ◼   ► Give Federico a hand.

01:11:44 ◼   ► [Applause] >> Federico, I'm sure everybody knows, the editor in

01:11:50 ◼   ► chief of maxstories.net, a website not about Max, very

01:12:09 ◼   ► confusing. He doesn't like when I make that joke I'm sorry. I own iOS stories

01:12:18 ◼   ► dotnet. You do don't you? Yeah. Where does it redirect? My website. There it is.

01:12:25 ◼   ► All right we got a few things to wrap up a little housekeeping here at the end. We

01:12:30 ◼   ► have a, it's like you just keep scrolling in this document never ends. A lot of

01:12:34 ◼   ► people to thank. We do have a lot of people to thank. Thank you. Thank you first.

01:12:39 ◼   ► Tell me what to do. No, thank Steven first for putting on an incredible show this evening. Give him a round of applause.

01:12:45 ◼   ► We talked about this earlier, but we had a rough time this year getting the show together.

01:12:58 ◼   ► And I have to say the staff of the Hammer Theatre is incredible. They're all good. They're the best.

01:13:04 ◼   ► They worked with us over the last couple weeks getting this planned. There are a bunch of them here.

01:13:08 ◼   ► It's a very big dark room. There's like cubbies everywhere where people are working.

01:13:12 ◼   ► Thank them for having us tonight and making it all possible.

01:13:15 ◼   ► And this is an audio program and the audio is important.

01:13:24 ◼   ► So we had the best man in the business up there in the sound booth.

01:13:27 ◼   ► Please thank Marco Armet for helping us out with the recording.

01:13:36 ◼   ► We owe a huge debt of gratitude to Jessie Char. I'm sure you're familiar with Jessie. She runs the Layers conference.

01:13:42 ◼   ► When we had to make our last minute changes, Jessie is who put us in touch with Hamer theater.

01:13:48 ◼   ► And also made us know that it was okay. Yes. She had the...

01:13:52 ◼   ► We had to do this. She just helped us emotionally with support. She's very amazing.

01:13:57 ◼   ► If you have not been to the Layers conference, put it on your calendar for next year.

01:14:01 ◼   ► It really is incredible. People joke about the snacks. The snacks are really good.

01:14:05 ◼   ► But they put together an amazing line of speakers and talks and it should definitely be on your list for 2019

01:14:11 ◼   ► And again a huge thank you to Microsoft for really helping us out to be able to afford to put the show on in this

01:14:18 ◼   ► amazing venue tonight

01:14:19 ◼   ► We also like to thank the relay hosts who are here

01:14:23 ◼   ► This company is not us. It's all the people that we get to work with every day

01:14:27 ◼   ► So thank you to our hosts for making shows each and every week or fortnight not judging

01:14:33 ◼   ► Four nights fine, or if you're cortex whenever you want to.

01:14:39 ◼   ► Time tracking.

01:14:42 ◼   ► We are about to turn four years old as a company in August.

01:14:47 ◼   ► We've been having a lot of these conversations today of like, can you imagine four years

01:14:52 ◼   ► ago that we would be standing here right now?

01:14:54 ◼   ► So the biggest thank you, as always, goes to you, our listeners.

01:14:58 ◼   ► We love you.

01:14:59 ◼   ► Thank you so much.

01:14:59 ◼   ► [APPLAUSE]

01:15:02 ◼   ► He's looking at me very strangely.

01:15:09 ◼   ► I know you're up to no good.

01:15:11 ◼   ► Before we go, there is, to borrow a phrase,

01:15:15 ◼   ► one more thing.

01:15:16 ◼   ► It's a small thing.

01:15:17 ◼   ► Small thing.

01:15:18 ◼   ► It's a small thing.

01:15:19 ◼   ► Steven is now walking towards a chair

01:15:22 ◼   ► where he has a leather jacket.

01:15:24 ◼   ► This is not the one more thing.

01:15:25 ◼   ► No.

01:15:26 ◼   ► It's not just a wardrobe change.

01:15:28 ◼   ► You do need to hurry up with this wardrobe change though if you're gonna do this

01:15:31 ◼   ► because I just have to keep talking because no one can hear you even though you keep saying things

01:15:35 ◼   ► I don't know what else to say we've had other great shows at Relay FM this week

01:15:43 ◼   ► Steven has a jacket with a big blue X on it what is that OS X?

01:15:48 ◼   ► That's right isn't it? Is that how you say it? That's how you say it right?

01:15:51 ◼   ► We're breaking up.

01:15:54 ◼   ► Can I make this announcement my normal jacket?

01:15:56 ◼   ► Yes, Stephen's very excited about this, so he's put a big leather jacket on.

01:16:00 ◼   ► I can't tell you how hot it is in this jacket.

01:16:02 ◼   ► It's very hot.

01:16:03 ◼   ► So this is not our only live show this year.

01:16:08 ◼   ► On Monday, October 22nd, we're going to have Upgrade live in Chicago with Jason Snell.

01:16:16 ◼   ► You remember Jason from earlier.

01:16:19 ◼   ► And then on October 25th in New York City.

01:16:24 ◼   ► [APPLAUSE]

01:16:27 ◼   ► --will be connected.

01:16:29 ◼   ► That's right.

01:16:29 ◼   ► We're very excited about doing more shows this year.

01:16:33 ◼   ► We're calling it a mini tour.

01:16:34 ◼   ► It's only two cities.

01:16:35 ◼   ► I don't know if that's really a mini tour.

01:16:36 ◼   ► The Penn Edict will be in Toronto.

01:16:38 ◼   ► The Penn Edict will be in Toronto.

01:16:38 ◼   ► I don't think this audience cares about that as much.

01:16:41 ◼   ► No.

01:16:41 ◼   ► [APPLAUSE]

01:16:43 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:16:44 ◼   ► But yeah, this is part of a little mini tour

01:16:46 ◼   ► that we're doing, Stephen, as the vice

01:16:49 ◼   ► president of live events.

01:16:50 ◼   ► Senior.

01:16:51 ◼   ► Senior vice president of live events.

01:16:53 ◼   ► We really want to start doing more of these live shows because we love to do them.

01:16:57 ◼   ► So this is a start of that.

01:16:59 ◼   ► So how do people get tickets?

01:17:01 ◼   ► So if you are a Relay FM member, you're going to get an email on Friday.

01:17:05 ◼   ► Which gives you enough time to sign up to become a member if you want a ticket.

01:17:10 ◼   ► If you want to do that, it'd be really swell.

01:17:13 ◼   ► Relay.fm says membership.

01:17:15 ◼   ► Yeah, that's the one.

01:17:17 ◼   ► So members will get an email on Friday.

01:17:19 ◼   ► They are limited seating.

01:17:21 ◼   ► So members are gonna get the first shot,

01:17:23 ◼   ► and then they will go, if there are any left,

01:17:24 ◼   ► will go on public sale the next week sometime.

01:17:26 ◼   ► So keep an eye on Twitter.

01:17:29 ◼   ► But we're super excited about this.

01:17:30 ◼   ► We've, like Myke said, we enjoy live shows,

01:17:33 ◼   ► but they're hard to do because we only get together

01:17:37 ◼   ► as a nerdy family a couple times a year.

01:17:39 ◼   ► And so we're gonna bring it to y'all.

01:17:42 ◼   ► - But that's it.

01:17:42 ◼   ► - That's it. - Thank you so much

01:17:44 ◼   ► for coming to our show.

01:17:45 ◼   ► (audience applauding)

01:17:47 ◼   ► And thanks to our friends again,

01:17:48 ◼   ► thanks to you for coming,

01:17:49 ◼   ► Thanks to all guests and to our host.

01:17:52 ◼   ► We'll see you next time.

01:17:53 ◼   ► Adios.

01:17:54 ◼   ► [APPLAUSE]

01:17:57 ◼   ► [ Applause ]

01:17:59 ◼   ► [ Applause ]