Connected

00:00:00 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

00:00:02 ◼   ► - From Relay FM, this is Connected, episode 189.

00:00:11 ◼   ► It is brought to you this week by our fine sponsors,

00:00:14 ◼   ► Smile Molecule and Slack.

00:00:17 ◼   ► My name is Steven Hackett

00:00:18 ◼   ► and I'm joined by my cohost, Myke Hurley.

00:00:21 ◼   ► - Sup homie?

00:00:22 ◼   ► - Hi man, Federico's on a special assignment this week.

00:00:27 ◼   ► Special assignment being vacation?

00:00:30 ◼   ► You know, something, I don't know what he's doing.

00:00:32 ◼   ► He's around doing things, not this year.

00:00:35 ◼   ► - Federico Vittucci is a man of the planet now.

00:00:38 ◼   ► - Mm, man of the planet.

00:00:40 ◼   ► - Yeah, he just moves around from place to place.

00:00:44 ◼   ► He's always there, he's been posting

00:00:45 ◼   ► on his Instagram stories, which is the thing

00:00:48 ◼   ► that he usually doesn't do. - Yeah, that blew his mind.

00:00:49 ◼   ► I have some breaking news from the chat room.

00:00:52 ◼   ► It's episode 190, not 189.

00:00:55 ◼   ► - That is good breaking news.

00:00:56 ◼   ► As far as breaking news goes, the correction of the episode number is pretty strong.

00:01:02 ◼   ► Thank you to Kate for making Steven better at his job.

00:01:06 ◼   ► Episode 190.

00:01:07 ◼   ► 190.

00:01:08 ◼   ► Okay.

00:01:09 ◼   ► From Relay FM.

00:01:10 ◼   ► No, no, no.

00:01:11 ◼   ► No?

00:01:12 ◼   ► Okay.

00:01:13 ◼   ► We're just gonna go with it.

00:01:14 ◼   ► Okay.

00:01:15 ◼   ► In my regime, thanks to Ian.

00:01:19 ◼   ► We're gonna start with some follow-up.

00:01:21 ◼   ► I'm actually gonna start with follow-out because I had a really interesting conversation with

00:01:26 ◼   ► with Serenity Caldwell on this week's episode of query.

00:01:29 ◼   ► Remember we spoke last week or the week before

00:01:31 ◼   ► about her really cool iPad review

00:01:32 ◼   ► that she did this amazing movie all on the iPad,

00:01:37 ◼   ► like about the iPad?

00:01:38 ◼   ► It was really, really cool.

00:01:39 ◼   ► And I think all three of us were impressed with it.

00:01:41 ◼   ► A lot of people really enjoyed it.

00:01:42 ◼   ► And I got to speak to her about

00:01:44 ◼   ► the behind the scenes of that.

00:01:45 ◼   ► So like the decision making that went into it,

00:01:47 ◼   ► some of the tools she used,

00:01:48 ◼   ► what was the hardest thing about it,

00:01:50 ◼   ► what was easier than it looks.

00:01:52 ◼   ► It was really fascinating, really eye opening to me.

00:01:55 ◼   ► You know, I at least think about iOS productivity through the lens of how my friends use it,

00:02:01 ◼   ► which like you and Federico and Jason, like mostly word based stuff.

00:02:07 ◼   ► So like writing or preparing show notes or doing spreadsheets, not like sitting down

00:02:11 ◼   ► and making a movie, right?

00:02:12 ◼   ► It's not something that you do on a regular basis on your iPad.

00:02:14 ◼   ► So it's really interesting to hear that angle of creation on the iPad.

00:02:18 ◼   ► And I think you may enjoy that episode if you haven't heard it yet.

00:02:22 ◼   ► So there'll be a link over in the show notes.

00:02:24 ◼   ► There is a thing that has occurred over the history of the three of us recording shows

00:02:31 ◼   ► together and it is a curse. The prompt was cursed and connected is cursed in that we

00:02:37 ◼   ► have had a history of talking about things sometimes and mostly randomly before they

00:02:47 ◼   ► immediately get killed. These things go away. Even last week or the week before, I asked

00:02:55 ◼   ► what happened to Liam, the recycling robot? Well, Apple have a new robot. That robot is

00:03:02 ◼   ► called Daisy and Daisy disassembles iPhones to reclaim materials. It was announced as

00:03:08 ◼   ► part of Earth Day as like, you know, Apple showing more about the things that they do

00:03:13 ◼   ► to like, I don't know, show them how much more thoughtful they are about the world,

00:03:18 ◼   ► right? They do these press releases every now and then. This is a quote from that press

00:03:22 ◼   ► release. "Daisy is made from some of Liam's parts." What?

00:03:27 ◼   ► Oh no. Oh no! What kind of robot horror are we a part of

00:03:31 ◼   ► here? Why? So like I have a few different questions here. Like, one, why did they need

00:03:36 ◼   ► to do that? Like, why can't Liam just like be Liam or like be put away somewhere? Why

00:03:41 ◼   ► Why did they have to disassemble Liam and use his parts in Daisy?

00:03:45 ◼   ► Why does Daisy need Liam's parts?

00:03:47 ◼   ► Why can't she have her own parts?

00:03:48 ◼   ► I think you're making an assumption that maybe we shouldn't make.

00:03:52 ◼   ► The real question is, did Daisy kill Liam for his parts?

00:03:56 ◼   ► Right?

00:03:57 ◼   ► Oh no.

00:03:58 ◼   ► You're assuming a human came in and disassembled the poor guy, but maybe they built Daisy and

00:04:03 ◼   ► Daisy looked at her and said, "Hey, I don't think you like those little spring-loaded

00:04:06 ◼   ► clamps you have.

00:04:07 ◼   ► It would be a shame if something happened to them."

00:04:09 ◼   ► And then she went over there and took him.

00:04:11 ◼   ► - It's just people came in one day,

00:04:13 ◼   ► she's like, hi, I'm Daisy, Liam's gone.

00:04:15 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:04:16 ◼   ► - And then she showed how good she was

00:04:19 ◼   ► at taking apart 200 iPhones an hour,

00:04:21 ◼   ► so she's way better than Liam.

00:04:23 ◼   ► But I don't like it because Liam has been murdered now,

00:04:28 ◼   ► and that makes me very uncomfortable.

00:04:31 ◼   ► I don't know why, or maybe, I don't know,

00:04:34 ◼   ► maybe Liam was, he had like a organ donor card,

00:04:39 ◼   ► and maybe he fell over or something.

00:04:41 ◼   ► And they just figured that they would,

00:04:45 ◼   ► his parts were used for Daisy, who knows?

00:04:48 ◼   ► We can't know, but all we know is Liam is dead,

00:04:51 ◼   ► long live Daisy.

00:04:53 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:04:54 ◼   ► It's a rough world out there, Myke.

00:04:57 ◼   ► The world of recycling is not all puppies and rainbows.

00:04:59 ◼   ► - It's cutthroat.

00:05:01 ◼   ► It's cutthroat.

00:05:02 ◼   ► You think just because it helps the environment, no, no.

00:05:04 ◼   ► It is, if you're a robot in the recycling business,

00:05:08 ◼   ► That's not good for you.

00:05:09 ◼   ► Watch your back.

00:05:10 ◼   ► A better robot may come take your parts.

00:05:12 ◼   ► You know what it is?

00:05:14 ◼   ► If you're a robot in the recycling business,

00:05:16 ◼   ► you're one step away from being recycled.

00:05:18 ◼   ► That's what they did.

00:05:19 ◼   ► I've just realized it.

00:05:20 ◼   ► They recycled Liam into Daisy.

00:05:24 ◼   ► Whoa.

00:05:25 ◼   ► That's pretty dark, man.

00:05:27 ◼   ► That is dark.

00:05:28 ◼   ► Can we move on?

00:05:28 ◼   ► I feel sad.

00:05:30 ◼   ► I think we have to.

00:05:31 ◼   ► Let's move on to incredibly happy news.

00:05:34 ◼   ► The LTE Apple Watch is rolling out to a few more countries.

00:05:38 ◼   ► Woo!

00:05:39 ◼   ► Denmark, Sweden, and India will join Taiwan on May the 11th.

00:05:44 ◼   ► So it's slowly expanding.

00:05:47 ◼   ► Carriers are coming on board.

00:05:49 ◼   ► That's kind of all there is to say on it, but it is happening.

00:05:53 ◼   ► Should we travel to those countries, or should we fly their flags on those days?

00:05:59 ◼   ► I feel like we should mark the occasion somehow.

00:06:01 ◼   ► Feels like a lot of work, but yeah, if you want to go to Denmark, Sweden, and India,

00:06:06 ◼   ► Taiwan all on one day. I wish you the best of luck in that. It'll be a good vlog.

00:06:11 ◼   ► Yeah I think you have to go... I think if you start in India it could be possible

00:06:16 ◼   ► right? Probably not though, but you never know you could try. We should talk about

00:06:19 ◼   ► emoji because that's a thing that we have talked about sometimes. So

00:06:25 ◼   ► remember back in 2016 where Apple changed the pistol emoji to a water

00:06:31 ◼   ► pistol. Remember this? And unfortunately like the next day or something

00:06:37 ◼   ► Microsoft changed it from a ray gun to a hand pistol. It was the same day. So

00:06:42 ◼   ► Microsoft were unveiling their brand new emoji that they had worked very long and

00:06:46 ◼   ► hard on and on the day that Microsoft did that Apple were like oh hey we've

00:06:50 ◼   ► changed a gun. So they took all of the wind out of Microsoft sales and

00:06:54 ◼   ► And Microsoft, in that release, after like three to four years of using a ray gun, they

00:07:03 ◼   ► changed it to a pistol and then Apple changed their pistol to a water pistol.

00:07:09 ◼   ► And basically yesterday, Google announced that they are going to be changing the representation

00:07:15 ◼   ► of their pistol to a water pistol looking emoji sometime in the very near future.

00:07:22 ◼   ► that is something that they're going to be doing. Facebook also confirmed to EmojiPedia

00:07:27 ◼   ► they are going to also be joining these companies in making this change, changing their representation

00:07:32 ◼   ► of the pistol emoji to a water pistol. Microsoft, Samsung and Twitter who are kind of the other major

00:07:38 ◼   ► emoji platforms have not made any announcements at this time and have said that they have nothing to

00:07:43 ◼   ► say. You know looking back on this like Apple kind of strong-armed people here like I feel like

00:07:51 ◼   ► Google and Facebook they kind of have to do this because Apple did it and Apple did it

00:07:57 ◼   ► I mean we spoke about this at the time whilst they had good intentions. They did this poorly

00:08:03 ◼   ► You know for many reasons in that, you know

00:08:06 ◼   ► They they changed something that was an existing character rather going back into history any

00:08:11 ◼   ► representation of that gum will be replaced with a water pistol which could be incredibly distasteful or

00:08:16 ◼   ► troubling in some instances. Yes

00:08:20 ◼   ► It was basically, you know, the way I look at it, it was a move with good intentions,

00:08:25 ◼   ► but it was poorly implemented. And you can see now, like, I think Apple learned from this.

00:08:30 ◼   ► If you look at what they've been doing recently with their accessibility emoji,

00:08:34 ◼   ► they put through a proper proposal, as you're supposed to do if you're adding new emoji,

00:08:39 ◼   ► but they spoke about it way in advance. And my expectation now would be that they would

00:08:45 ◼   ► maybe give a little bit more time and maybe speak to people on the emoji like

00:08:52 ◼   ► the Unicode Consortium before making a change as significant as the as the

00:08:55 ◼   ► pistol one. So I think it's I think it's a change that is good and I totally

00:09:00 ◼   ► agree with you these other these other companies sort of have a you could say

00:09:04 ◼   ► Apple's held a water pistol to their head and making you change it. Let me say that, couldn't you?

00:09:08 ◼   ► And it wouldn't be so horrifying you know it's just either change it or your

00:09:12 ◼   ► hair's gonna get wet. The Google one in this article is really good. It's like a super

00:09:16 ◼   ► soaker, it has like a separate tank on top. They went serious, right? I want one of those.

00:09:21 ◼   ► Yeah, they're good, they're good. It's like, aha, we have a gun that can hold more water.

00:09:26 ◼   ► In 2019, Apple is gonna have a super soaker rifle instead of their pistol. You heard it

00:09:32 ◼   ► here first. Oh, it actually looks like there has been a, since I put this into our document,

00:09:37 ◼   ► Twitter seemed to have confirmed that they're gonna be changing theirs to also a water pistol

00:09:40 ◼   ► point in the near future. So that is more real-time follow-up. That leaves Facebook

00:09:44 ◼   ► and poor old Microsoft with a more conventional pistol, like a firearm in theirs.

00:09:52 ◼   ► Yeah, I feel like this, again, I'm pleased that companies are doing this. I just think

00:09:58 ◼   ► that sometimes it might be nicer if they all work together on stuff like this. You know,

00:10:01 ◼   ► considering there is literally a working group, right, where they are all on this board together,

00:10:07 ◼   ► the Unicode Consortium, they can have these conversations.

00:10:10 ◼   ► And I hope that everybody learned a lesson

00:10:13 ◼   ► from the way that everything went there,

00:10:15 ◼   ► because it took something that should have been

00:10:17 ◼   ► positive news and kind of made it a little bit negative,

00:10:19 ◼   ► which I think that nobody really wanted.

00:10:21 ◼   ► - Yeah, I agree with you, but at the same time,

00:10:23 ◼   ► maybe Apple wanted to make the statement by just doing it.

00:10:27 ◼   ► You know what I'm saying?

00:10:29 ◼   ► - But it's a bigger statement

00:10:30 ◼   ► if Google will do it at the same time.

00:10:32 ◼   ► - Yeah, maybe.

00:10:33 ◼   ► - Like, it is a way bigger statement to say,

00:10:37 ◼   ► Google, Microsoft, Facebook and Apple joined together today to make a statement and they

00:10:42 ◼   ► changed their pistol emoji to a water pistol and this is why and these are the statements.

00:10:46 ◼   ► That's a bigger, more impactful message rather than Apple feeling like they have to be the

00:10:52 ◼   ► lone crusader, which they definitely don't need to be and stuff like this.

00:10:57 ◼   ► These companies, they have shared values.

00:11:00 ◼   ► It isn't all about competing to show who's the best and who's the smartest.

00:11:03 ◼   ► Sure.

00:11:04 ◼   ► Yeah, I see what you're saying.

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00:13:18 ◼   ► So we saw this week the release of iOS 11.3.1. If you've been following the news a little

00:13:26 ◼   ► bit, there's been an issue with iPhone 8 and 8 Plus models if they have a third-party screen

00:13:33 ◼   ► repair.

00:13:35 ◼   ► I miss this. I had no idea that this was a problem at all. Like, I didn't see this reported

00:13:40 ◼   ► anywhere until I read this story today.

00:13:42 ◼   ► It was done a little bit, and there was some conversation by, like, the right to repair

00:13:46 ◼   ► people with, like, Apple's crippling third-party repairs. Not the case. It seems that this

00:13:51 ◼   ► was a bug because there's a bug release in the form of iOS 11.3.1 and so what was happening

00:13:57 ◼   ► if you had a third-party screen put on your phone or the repair done by a third party

00:14:04 ◼   ► you could end up with intermittent touch issues on the phone because these like non-genuine

00:14:12 ◼   ► replacement parts weren't being appropriately like I read something like the touch scan

00:14:19 ◼   ► or like the scan rate or something would come out of sync out and I read a couple of different

00:14:22 ◼   ► things theorizing what it could be, but in short they fixed it in 11.3.1 and there are

00:14:26 ◼   ► a couple of things about this update that I would like to talk about. Primarily, its

00:14:33 ◼   ► existence. Like why do I have to install this on my iPad Pro? Why do I have to install this

00:14:40 ◼   ► on my iPhone X if all that's in here is this update for iPhone?

00:14:45 ◼   ► It is at no, right? Like, they're just bad at release notes.

00:14:48 ◼   ► I mean, maybe. I was actually trying to find the official release notes, and I'm sure I'm

00:14:53 ◼   ► going to do that in the chat. I'm going to help you with the URL. If there's more in

00:14:56 ◼   ► there, say that there's more in there. I don't know, it's just like, the primary thing being

00:15:01 ◼   ► this, running into my iPad Pro is like, this seems weird to me.

00:15:06 ◼   ► It is, yeah. It is strange that, like, if there is other stuff, they didn't even mention

00:15:11 ◼   ► the fact that there was other stuff because it's like why would I need this?

00:15:17 ◼   ► Why would I need this on my iPad Pro?

00:15:19 ◼   ► I completely agree with you actually.

00:15:20 ◼   ► That doesn't make sense because I'm looking at the release notes on a KBase article about

00:15:26 ◼   ► iOS 11 updates it is called and it has a little you can like click to each one and it just

00:15:31 ◼   ► shows you the release notes and it well it says it improves the security of your iPhone

00:15:36 ◼   ► or iPad and addresses an issue so security improvements whatever that means.

00:15:41 ◼   ► I mean, it's hardly like the most exciting thing in the world.

00:15:44 ◼   ► And there was a security update for the Mac yesterday as well that involved what could

00:15:47 ◼   ► be some cross-platform stuff.

00:15:49 ◼   ► And so, yeah, that's good.

00:15:52 ◼   ► But even if this wasn't just an iPhone 8 update, I think it goes to the conversation we've

00:15:57 ◼   ► had before that Apple is seemingly unable to update only some devices or only like,

00:16:05 ◼   ► why can't we run an update in the App Store for mail when there's new mail stuff?

00:16:08 ◼   ► Why do we have to wait for an iOS update?

00:16:11 ◼   ► it's still a very monolithic release and they don't seem able to break it down into these

00:16:17 ◼   ► different components or even target individual devices if they need to.

00:16:23 ◼   ► But going back to the bug itself, it is not surprising to me that something like this

00:16:26 ◼   ► would come out of Cupertino because the issue is third-party repair companies fixing iPhone

00:16:33 ◼   ► screens. I mean, and like, what kind of test conditions would lead you to being able to

00:16:40 ◼   ► like logically come across that, you know? And like, and it's even like, it obviously

00:16:46 ◼   ► didn't, it wasn't widespread in any betas or anything like that, because they would

00:16:52 ◼   ► have seen this happening. They would have had people reporting it. And it's because

00:16:55 ◼   ► it's such a specific use case. One, you have to have an iPhone 8. Two, you have to have

00:16:59 ◼   ► broken the screen, and three, you have to have them taken it to a third-party repair

00:17:04 ◼   ► company. There are so many things that have to happen for this to become known on a wide

00:17:10 ◼   ► scale. Apparently, it was some kind of microchip that had a bug and it was disabling screen

00:17:15 ◼   ► input. I don't know why. I reckon it's some kind of tempering thing that they have anyway,

00:17:19 ◼   ► like just so they know and then maybe it was like, "Oh, it's all gone wrong." I mean, I

00:17:25 ◼   ► I don't know, I've never had to replace a screen.

00:17:28 ◼   ► I don't know how expensive they are,

00:17:30 ◼   ► but I'm naturally assuming it's always gonna be cheaper

00:17:33 ◼   ► if you go to a third party,

00:17:34 ◼   ► because that's what third parties do, right?

00:17:35 ◼   ► They would always price it cheaper than Apple.

00:17:38 ◼   ► - Yeah, Apple's prices are more competitive

00:17:40 ◼   ► than they used to be, unless you have an iPhone 10.

00:17:42 ◼   ► That's an expensive phone to repair.

00:17:43 ◼   ► But yeah, lots of people go to third parties.

00:17:45 ◼   ► I know there's several in town that you can go to.

00:17:48 ◼   ► One's very noticeably right across the street

00:17:52 ◼   ► from the Apple stores.

00:17:52 ◼   ► As you walk out of the Apple store dejected,

00:17:54 ◼   ► look up onto the horizon and there's a third-party service provider.

00:17:57 ◼   ► That's very clever.

00:17:58 ◼   ► Waiting for you.

00:17:59 ◼   ► There's a chain here called iSmash.

00:18:03 ◼   ► That's a really good name.

00:18:04 ◼   ► It's a good name, right?

00:18:05 ◼   ► They fix screens, they do all kinds of stuff, but they fix screens.

00:18:08 ◼   ► That's one of the things they do.

00:18:10 ◼   ► If phone unlocking was still a thing, they would do that, right?

00:18:14 ◼   ► It's like one of those types of places.

00:18:15 ◼   ► Yeah, no doubt.

00:18:17 ◼   ► I did want to talk a little bit about the second half of the release notes.

00:18:20 ◼   ► I just want to read this because I find it incredible.

00:18:25 ◼   ► "Non-genuine replacement displays may have compromised

00:18:28 ◼   ► "visual quality and may fail to work correctly.

00:18:32 ◼   ► "Apple-certified screen repairs are performed

00:18:34 ◼   ► "by trusted experts whose genuine Apple parts."

00:18:38 ◼   ► See support.apple.com for more information.

00:18:41 ◼   ► I don't think I've ever read a more passive-aggressive

00:18:44 ◼   ► chunk of text in release notes of all time.

00:18:47 ◼   ► Like, this is just dripping with this attitude from Apple, and it really, like, I think it's

00:18:54 ◼   ► kind of a bad look.

00:18:55 ◼   ► I don't know, did that rub you the wrong way?

00:18:59 ◼   ► I more like how much this bothers you.

00:19:02 ◼   ► Like I kind of don't, I'm fine with it.

00:19:04 ◼   ► I like how much it upsets you.

00:19:07 ◼   ► That makes me very happy.

00:19:08 ◼   ► Because I'm like, well yeah, sure.

00:19:10 ◼   ► Like I read that stuff and I agree with it.

00:19:13 ◼   ► probably correct that if you should and because I don't think it means you have

00:19:18 ◼   ► to go to the Apple store right like an Apple certified screen repair could be

00:19:24 ◼   ► done at a an Apple service provider yeah and I guess they they probably have more

00:19:30 ◼   ► flexibility on their pricing but there's only so low they can go I guess so I

00:19:35 ◼   ► mean I kind of like I read that and I'm like yeah you're probably right support

00:19:39 ◼   ► documentation, you know?

00:19:42 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:19:43 ◼   ► - But I understand why it gets you.

00:19:44 ◼   ► - Just the way that it's worded,

00:19:46 ◼   ► compromise visual quality, performed by trusted experts,

00:19:50 ◼   ► like instead of just like the guy at the mall.

00:19:52 ◼   ► - It's like everybody else sucks, right?

00:19:54 ◼   ► Like the mall guy, he doesn't know what he's doing,

00:19:57 ◼   ► he's trying to put like a Galaxy S screen on there,

00:20:00 ◼   ► and like, you know, he has no idea.

00:20:02 ◼   ► He just gets a piece of glass and like just puts it on

00:20:05 ◼   ► and hopes that it will work, and he puts a little print out

00:20:07 ◼   ► an iPhone home screen behind the glass and then just gives you your phone and you leave.

00:20:11 ◼   ► So I don't know. Go update your friends I guess to 1131.

00:20:17 ◼   ► Hey Flickr's back. Is it? It's back in the news.

00:20:22 ◼   ► Hopefully. It's back in the news.

00:20:23 ◼   ► SmugMug have bought Flickr. What is a SmugMug? SmugMug.

00:20:29 ◼   ► It is a photo sharing and print service. Not unlike Flickr. They're actually kind of similar.

00:20:35 ◼   ► What I didn't know is that Smug-Mug is family owned, which is pretty cool.

00:20:39 ◼   ► There was this article at Broken USA Today, of all places, saying that Smug-Mug is purchasing

00:20:46 ◼   ► Flickr away from the smoldering carcass that is Yahoo.

00:20:51 ◼   ► Well, I think they actually bought it from Oath.

00:20:53 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:20:54 ◼   ► Well, I like to think of Oath as just a container around the smoldering carcass of Yahoo.

00:21:01 ◼   ► It's just like a sleeping bag full of death.

00:21:04 ◼   ► Yahoo and AOL together, right? That's Oath. Yeah, that's a real pair of acquisitions.

00:21:11 ◼   ► Owned by Verizon. It's a real, that is like just a whole mess of stuff going on over there.

00:21:17 ◼   ► It is. If you had told 2002, Steven, one day AOL and Yahoo and Flickr are going to be owned

00:21:23 ◼   ► by a company called Oath, hey I would laugh, oh but that's really just a shelf of Verizon

00:21:28 ◼   ► to be like, what has happened to the internet in 2018? But that's where we are. So, Smug

00:21:34 ◼   ► - So, Lungmug is saying that Flickr is gonna remain

00:21:36 ◼   ► a standalone community, that it is going to

00:21:40 ◼   ► pour resources into it.

00:21:44 ◼   ► We should say that, you know, Flickr was bought by Yahoo

00:21:48 ◼   ► years and years ago.

00:21:50 ◼   ► Yahoo sold for only 4.5 billion, which is,

00:21:53 ◼   ► I mean, it's a lot of money to me and you,

00:21:54 ◼   ► but it's not that much money in 2018 acquisitions,

00:21:58 ◼   ► if you think about how big Yahoo was at one point.

00:22:01 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's again, one of those things,

00:22:03 ◼   ► you go back far enough and say this is how much Verizon's going to buy Yahoo for and

00:22:07 ◼   ► you'd be like, nah, you're crazy.

00:22:09 ◼   ► Like Yahoo is the place, you know?

00:22:11 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:22:12 ◼   ► And the chat room is asking if we're killing Flickr by talking about it.

00:22:16 ◼   ► I hope not.

00:22:17 ◼   ► I would like to think that right now, I mean, it's probably got the best chance it's ever

00:22:22 ◼   ► had.

00:22:23 ◼   ► Maybe we kill Oath, you know, maybe that was the whole thing.

00:22:26 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:22:27 ◼   ► It can't be long for this world.

00:22:30 ◼   ► So there's a lot to talk about here, I think.

00:22:32 ◼   ► I don't know what your experience was, but for me, especially in college, so talking

00:22:37 ◼   ► 2004, 2005, 2006, that time frame, sort of pre-iPhone time, Flickr was a really important

00:22:45 ◼   ► part of my internet life.

00:22:48 ◼   ► I had an account for a really long time.

00:22:52 ◼   ► I was a part of some really genuinely enjoyable communities on Flickr of Mac nerds and other

00:23:00 ◼   ► people in Memphis who are photographers and I learned a lot from those people and had

00:23:04 ◼   ► really like really honestly good conversations online in these communities. And I still have

00:23:10 ◼   ► an account I went through, maybe when Yahoo! bought them and sort of cleaned out my archive

00:23:15 ◼   ► and really trimmed what was there. I don't know the last time I uploaded Flickr wise,

00:23:18 ◼   ► it's been a really long time. And I used to do it daily in 2008 2009. I did a photo a

00:23:23 ◼   ► day project and I posted it on Flickr. So every single day I uploaded that I don't think

00:23:28 ◼   ► been the case for hardly anybody recently. There are still communities there. In fact,

00:23:33 ◼   ► you remember that video I did a couple months ago, maybe last month, about the

00:23:37 ◼   ► AlphaSmart, that keyboard computer thing? That whole enthusiast community exists in a Flickr

00:23:47 ◼   ► group. I stumbled across them in my research, and all these people hacking smart Alphas,

00:23:53 ◼   ► or AlphaSmarts and doing all this stuff.

00:23:54 ◼   ► And they're doing it all on Flickr.

00:23:56 ◼   ► It's this crazy thing.

00:23:58 ◼   ► But I can't imagine there's a lot of those communities left

00:24:02 ◼   ► on Flickr because so many things have come along

00:24:07 ◼   ► and have overtaken it.

00:24:09 ◼   ► I think Flickr's a really good example of a web 2.0 company

00:24:14 ◼   ► that totally missed the boat on mobile.

00:24:16 ◼   ► They did not have a mobile app for a really long time.

00:24:20 ◼   ► and when they did, it was really pretty bad.

00:24:23 ◼   ► And there were some third party apps.

00:24:25 ◼   ► The website wasn't responsive for a really long time.

00:24:28 ◼   ► They just, they could have been,

00:24:30 ◼   ► if they had been on their feet about it,

00:24:33 ◼   ► they could have been there in the app store on day one

00:24:35 ◼   ► and saying, hey, this is the default place

00:24:37 ◼   ► for you to share your photos

00:24:38 ◼   ► when you take them from an iPhone.

00:24:40 ◼   ► And they just weren't.

00:24:41 ◼   ► - They could have been Instagrams.

00:24:43 ◼   ► They could have been bought by Facebook

00:24:44 ◼   ► for like a billion dollars or whatever it was.

00:24:46 ◼   ► - Yeah, but they weren't.

00:24:47 ◼   ► and Instagram I think is that place now.

00:24:51 ◼   ► And that makes me a little sad because

00:24:53 ◼   ► Flickr had all this great organization to it

00:24:56 ◼   ► that you could build these really nice albums

00:24:59 ◼   ► and they had all the community stuff.

00:25:00 ◼   ► Whereas Instagram is really just a Twitter-like timeline

00:25:04 ◼   ► and it lacks a certain permanence that I think Flickr had

00:25:08 ◼   ► in a lot of people's lives for a long time.

00:25:10 ◼   ► So I mean, I don't know anything about SmugMug really.

00:25:14 ◼   ► I don't know anything about the family that owns it

00:25:17 ◼   ► or the CEO that's quoted in this article,

00:25:20 ◼   ► but I would love to see it flourish.

00:25:24 ◼   ► I just don't know if that's possible in 2018.

00:25:27 ◼   ► - I feel like they've missed the boat

00:25:31 ◼   ► on anything that would have been substantial for them

00:25:34 ◼   ► at this point, honestly.

00:25:36 ◼   ► I don't think that they could rise to prominence

00:25:42 ◼   ► to be either of the things

00:25:43 ◼   ► that they could or should have been,

00:25:45 ◼   ► and I don't really know what it could be right now.

00:25:49 ◼   ► I'm just gonna go out on a limb and say that

00:25:51 ◼   ► if SmugMug is like a family-owned business,

00:25:54 ◼   ► Flickr probably already has a community large enough

00:25:56 ◼   ► to fulfill what they want from it.

00:25:59 ◼   ► And as long as they keep that community happy

00:26:01 ◼   ► and maybe bring some more people in,

00:26:03 ◼   ► they're gonna be fine.

00:26:05 ◼   ► And considering what SmugMug's business is,

00:26:09 ◼   ► just being able to natively advertise

00:26:12 ◼   ► that you should print your photos, right,

00:26:14 ◼   ► and stuff like that whilst in Flickr,

00:26:17 ◼   ► all of that stuff's gonna be good for them.

00:26:19 ◼   ► Like it is a logical purchase for SmugMug's business,

00:26:23 ◼   ► but I cannot imagine it being Instagram.

00:26:27 ◼   ► I just can't see it because it's too late now, right?

00:26:34 ◼   ► Like Flickr's too old and too big to change enough, right?

00:26:39 ◼   ► Because you'd end up with Flickr stories.

00:26:43 ◼   ► Like, it's gonna have to do all of that, right?

00:26:46 ◼   ► Like to try and combat it, you know?

00:26:49 ◼   ► And I just don't imagine it happening.

00:26:52 ◼   ► The funny parallel for me here is, you know,

00:26:54 ◼   ► you were completely right in what you said about

00:26:57 ◼   ► Flickr in this situation because they missed mobile.

00:27:01 ◼   ► But one of the other big web 2.0 companies

00:27:04 ◼   ► that missed mobile was Facebook.

00:27:06 ◼   ► And it's kind of funny to see that like,

00:27:09 ◼   ► because Facebook didn't have a competitor,

00:27:12 ◼   ► they weathered the storm and got it together,

00:27:16 ◼   ► but Flickr had Instagram.

00:27:19 ◼   ► - Oh man, Path totally had it there for a second.

00:27:21 ◼   ► No, they didn't.

00:27:22 ◼   ► - But like, if something would have come along

00:27:24 ◼   ► like at that time, that was compelling,

00:27:27 ◼   ► it could have killed Facebook in theory, right?

00:27:31 ◼   ► I know it's on a much bigger scale,

00:27:33 ◼   ► but it's just funny when you look at it like that,

00:27:35 ◼   ► that comparison-wise, Flickr had a huge audience

00:27:39 ◼   ► for its place, Instagram came with zero

00:27:43 ◼   ► and was able to surpass it, grow,

00:27:46 ◼   ► and then got bought by Facebook and explode, right?

00:27:48 ◼   ► Like, you know, and it's funny that like,

00:27:51 ◼   ► Facebook were just lucky, they had enough money

00:27:54 ◼   ► that they could buy companies like Instagram

00:27:56 ◼   ► and WhatsApp and all these other types of companies

00:27:59 ◼   ► to keep them going whilst they got a lot

00:28:01 ◼   ► of their stuff in check until they became compelling

00:28:04 ◼   ► on mobile.

00:28:05 ◼   ► And it's just funny to me to think about that comparison

00:28:08 ◼   ► looking at how those two companies kind of weathered that storm and Flickr did not do

00:28:12 ◼   ► well and then they got bought as well as Instagram got bought but Yahoo treated Flickr badly and

00:28:20 ◼   ► Facebook has treated Instagram very well it seems. So it's just funny to look at all of

00:28:26 ◼   ► those companies like compared to each other from like a where are they now standpoint

00:28:31 ◼   ► that now Flickr is just being traded away as some way to inject cash into a new company

00:28:36 ◼   ► and it's kind of sad.

00:28:38 ◼   ► - It is.

00:28:39 ◼   ► Yeah, I think that's all sad.

00:28:44 ◼   ► - But it looks like that they're in the right place

00:28:45 ◼   ► for where they want to be right now.

00:28:47 ◼   ► I think that SmugMug will probably be

00:28:49 ◼   ► a really good home for Flickr,

00:28:51 ◼   ► and I bet that everybody that works there

00:28:53 ◼   ► will probably be a lot happier as well.

00:28:55 ◼   ► So I think this is a nice move,

00:28:58 ◼   ► and I hope they are able to do something with it

00:29:00 ◼   ► because Flickr is an institution,

00:29:02 ◼   ► and it would be really nice to see something

00:29:04 ◼   ► come of this that's positive.

00:29:06 ◼   ► Yeah, I think so. And, you know, maybe they can never return to those glory days, but

00:29:12 ◼   ► maybe they can grow it from where it is. Because I think Yahoo buying it was kind of the second

00:29:17 ◼   ► blow after missing mobile. Because like you said, Facebook did pull out of that. Flickr

00:29:23 ◼   ► didn't. And I think part of that was because Yahoo wasn't able to do it. Yahoo didn't have

00:29:27 ◼   ► the brand to pull that sort of thing off. Or the desire.

00:29:31 ◼   ► Or the desire. Because, you know, Yahoo was what it was.

00:29:33 ◼   ► Sunset remember the sunset slide I do

00:29:36 ◼   ► I'm on the Yahoo homepage right now. It's not good. I can't imagine it being good at this point

00:29:43 ◼   ► It hasn't been good for a long time. I can't imagine it being good now

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00:31:51 ◼   ► for their support of this show. So in Alphabet's Q1 earnings report, it became clear that the

00:31:59 ◼   ► company is spending a lot of money on Nest without probably the return that they would like to see

00:32:06 ◼   ► from it. So it takes some work to see exactly what these amounts are, and this stuff was all

00:32:12 ◼   ► brought from a Vurd report where they did the hard work so I didn't have to, and you can see that

00:32:17 ◼   ► Alphabet, what they've done is they've placed Nest into a section of their earnings

00:32:22 ◼   ► akin to how Apple reports the Apple Watch in like an other category. And this has been

00:32:28 ◼   ► changed because Alphabet rolled Nest back into Google, I think that was like within

00:32:34 ◼   ► the last year or so. So they made a bunch of adjustments to previously reported figures

00:32:39 ◼   ► which meant you could see the difference in the profit and loss. So like Nest were in

00:32:43 ◼   ► another part of the business where it was hidden away in a big bucket, right? Then it

00:32:49 ◼   ► got moved into another bucket and you could just see the impact of how those buckets changed

00:32:53 ◼   ► from time over time to be able to work out these amounts. So it's not as hidden as

00:32:57 ◼   ► maybe Google would like. So what this has shown from some calculation is that Nest made

00:33:03 ◼   ► around $726 million in revenue but lost $621 million last year. So, you know, it's not

00:33:12 ◼   ► in the red, but I don't think it's where you would want the company to be right now or this division.

00:33:19 ◼   ► So like this investment could be worth it ultimately because Google has a shot to

00:33:25 ◼   ► potentially further integrate Nest and Google Assistant together to try and maybe take on

00:33:31 ◼   ► Amazon, which is clearly what they're trying to do with all of their home products because

00:33:34 ◼   ► Amazon have the mind share and if you any statistics and figures show they also have

00:33:39 ◼   ► the significant market share in the smart connected home device space right now.

00:33:44 ◼   ► And also, if you look at the suite of tools and features available, it is probably more likely

00:33:52 ◼   ► that Google could become dominant in this area than they could in the phone area with the Pixel.

00:34:00 ◼   ► Pixel is a very good phone, considered to be the best Android phone, but it's very difficult for

00:34:06 ◼   ► for them to try and take down Samsung,

00:34:07 ◼   ► and it's very difficult for them to try

00:34:09 ◼   ► and take down Apple, right?

00:34:10 ◼   ► Like in the idea of units sold,

00:34:12 ◼   ► but it seems like you would maybe have a clearer path

00:34:15 ◼   ► as Google to produce products at a better quality

00:34:20 ◼   ► and with larger audiences than Amazon, right?

00:34:23 ◼   ► 'Cause the market's way smaller,

00:34:25 ◼   ► Google has more resources in this area, right?

00:34:27 ◼   ► And this is what they do.

00:34:29 ◼   ► But it does seem that right now, even with this spending,

00:34:32 ◼   ► Amazon's still the leader,

00:34:34 ◼   ► Nest is not really churning out products at a speedy rate. I think it's going to be really

00:34:38 ◼   ► interesting to see what happens over the next 12 months because they just released a new

00:34:43 ◼   ► camera that has the Google system built in, right? That's something that they did recently,

00:34:47 ◼   ► I think. You know, when I look at this stuff, it's like, well, I can see why Google or Alphabet

00:34:55 ◼   ► is putting the money into this because Nest make great products when they make them and

00:35:04 ◼   ► if they're able to I guess pump up this stuff and make a bunch of really compelling home

00:35:12 ◼   ► products that also integrate and include in some instances the Google Assistant and Google

00:35:17 ◼   ► home stuff, they have a real kind of shot at competing and out competing Amazon, right?

00:35:27 ◼   ► You would think. But even today, like Amazon are releasing more products. Did you see this

00:35:32 ◼   ► today? The Echo Dot for kids?

00:35:34 ◼   ► Yeah, it's just colored funny, right?

00:35:36 ◼   ► It's colored, it comes in a colorful case and it has increased parental controls.

00:35:40 ◼   ► Okay.

00:35:41 ◼   ► So you can put it in the kids room or whatever and it's, you know, it's better for working

00:35:47 ◼   ► with the stuff that they're gonna ask.

00:35:49 ◼   ► Because Amazon will not stop releasing new Echo products.

00:35:53 ◼   ► - They can't.

00:35:53 ◼   ► - They cannot be stopped.

00:35:54 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think Google is in a great position

00:35:58 ◼   ► to take Amazon on here.

00:36:00 ◼   ► And maybe, if you read the reports,

00:36:03 ◼   ► Nest was like a real disaster,

00:36:05 ◼   ► and they got rid of some people,

00:36:07 ◼   ► and then it was like under Alphabet,

00:36:09 ◼   ► now it's under Google again.

00:36:11 ◼   ► It's been through, as a company, a lot of things.

00:36:15 ◼   ► and maybe they're getting close to sorting all that out

00:36:20 ◼   ► and we're on the edge of this great Nest Renaissance.

00:36:25 ◼   ► I'd love it, I have a lot of Nest products.

00:36:26 ◼   ► I've got several cameras I have there.

00:36:29 ◼   ► I always forget what it's called.

00:36:30 ◼   ► Like the security pad, the alarm system deal.

00:36:35 ◼   ► Nest Secure, I've got one of those in my office.

00:36:38 ◼   ► I've been happy with their stuff

00:36:40 ◼   ► and the app's pretty good.

00:36:41 ◼   ► They don't support HomeKit but you can live with that.

00:36:44 ◼   ► It's like they have so many good pieces

00:36:47 ◼   ► and they just need to keep pushing

00:36:49 ◼   ► because I think especially with Amazon

00:36:52 ◼   ► breathing down their necks with the Echo family of stuff,

00:36:56 ◼   ► you've gotta stay on top of this.

00:36:57 ◼   ► You've gotta remain competitive

00:36:59 ◼   ► 'cause if you go, if Nest Go's another year, 18 months

00:37:01 ◼   ► with no real change in their products,

00:37:04 ◼   ► then that's a pretty big deal.

00:37:05 ◼   ► I think a bigger deal than it was last time around.

00:37:08 ◼   ► When they were quiet, 2015, 2016, 2017,

00:37:12 ◼   ► They didn't have a lot of real good competition, but now they do, and they need to stay on

00:37:18 ◼   ► the ball.

00:37:19 ◼   ► So some real-time follow-up from Pastor Boy in the chat room.

00:37:25 ◼   ► The Echo for Kids has a feature called Magic Word, where it encourages, with positive reinforcement,

00:37:34 ◼   ► if kids use the word "please" when asking the Echo to do things.

00:37:39 ◼   ► Which is really interesting because I was talking with some friends a couple of days

00:37:42 ◼   ► ago who were like having this issue, or like it was friends of friends that were having

00:37:47 ◼   ► this issue, where they're having to say please to their echo because they don't want their

00:37:53 ◼   ► kids to just really like think about that they have to bark orders at things all the

00:37:57 ◼   ► time.

00:37:58 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

00:37:59 ◼   ► Which is kind of incredible, right?

00:38:00 ◼   ► And also something else, oh this is so cute, it's optimized for a waxer.

00:38:07 ◼   ► Oh, oh boy.

00:38:09 ◼   ► Isn't that incredible?

00:38:13 ◼   ► This specific version is optimized for common mispronunciations of the code words that kids

00:38:20 ◼   ► might do.

00:38:21 ◼   ► This is maybe the best thing Amazon have ever done.

00:38:23 ◼   ► I'm melting now.

00:38:24 ◼   ► This is so good.

00:38:25 ◼   ► I mean, it's nice, but it's a very Amazon way to do it, whereas you could just have

00:38:30 ◼   ► all those be settings for any Echo.

00:38:32 ◼   ► I'm not going to go by...

00:38:34 ◼   ► I think a lot of it is, though.

00:38:35 ◼   ► I agree with Echo.

00:38:36 ◼   ► in the parental control features.

00:38:41 ◼   ► Like the magic word stuff is all in the parental control

00:38:44 ◼   ► features so. - Good.

00:38:45 ◼   ► So there you go. - Some of it's

00:38:46 ◼   ► already in there.

00:38:47 ◼   ► - Amazon's doing a lot of stuff and that should do more.

00:38:50 ◼   ► - Speaking of Amazon doing a lot of stuff,

00:38:52 ◼   ► it feels like they've already decided to move on

00:38:55 ◼   ► to their next big bet, home robots.

00:38:58 ◼   ► This is a report from Mark Gurman and Brad Stone

00:39:01 ◼   ► over at Bloomberg that the team

00:39:05 ◼   ► that was responsible for the Amazon Echo, the Fire TV,

00:39:10 ◼   ► the Fire tablets and the Fire phone, may it rest in peace,

00:39:14 ◼   ► which is run by someone with the name Craig Zirr.

00:39:18 ◼   ► They have started a new secret project

00:39:21 ◼   ► to build what is being dubbed a domestic robot.

00:39:25 ◼   ► This report is very, very light on any substantial details.

00:39:30 ◼   ► The project is code named Vesta,

00:39:32 ◼   ► which is named after the Roman goddess

00:39:34 ◼   ► of the hearth, home, and family.

00:39:37 ◼   ► And Amazon are hiring a lot of people.

00:39:38 ◼   ► They have an ex-Apple engineer,

00:39:40 ◼   ► or ex-Apple executive, I should say,

00:39:42 ◼   ► who's running their kind of like,

00:39:44 ◼   ► some of the machine learning stuff around vision,

00:39:49 ◼   ► that this thing's gonna need to see stuff.

00:39:52 ◼   ► And basically a lot of it, honestly,

00:39:54 ◼   ► is Bloomberg speculating about what the robot might do,

00:39:57 ◼   ► which it's not great reporting.

00:39:59 ◼   ► They got this one little tidbit

00:40:00 ◼   ► and then just tried to turn it into an article, honestly.

00:40:03 ◼   ► Like one thing that they say,

00:40:04 ◼   ► oh, what if it's just an Amazon Echo device?

00:40:06 ◼   ► That is mobile, that's rubbish.

00:40:08 ◼   ► That is a rubbish, terrible speculation.

00:40:10 ◼   ► You may as well have not even bothered.

00:40:12 ◼   ► Like, because like what?

00:40:14 ◼   ► Like I can just put a dot in every room.

00:40:16 ◼   ► I don't need a robot to follow me around

00:40:18 ◼   ► so I can give Echo commands.

00:40:20 ◼   ► So I thought what might be more fun

00:40:23 ◼   ► is if we try and think of some things

00:40:25 ◼   ► that we would want an Amazon Echo home robot to do.

00:40:29 ◼   ► So, one thing that I want it to do is something I don't want it to be, which is humanoid.

00:40:38 ◼   ► I would not want a home robot to have a humanoid shape, because that would be too creepy. I

00:40:45 ◼   ► would like it to have a different shape, you know, like maybe just something more like

00:40:50 ◼   ► Eve from Wall-E, right? Like, I would prefer something in that kind of thing, like, you

00:40:55 ◼   ► know, like that would be more comfortable for me. Maybe to not even have a head,

00:40:59 ◼   ► right, just like the body and the arms, that would be way better. But here's some

00:41:03 ◼   ► things I was thinking of, Steven. Some basic cleaning stuff, like a Roomba, right?

00:41:08 ◼   ► Like, if this thing can move around, why not put like a vacuum on the bottom of

00:41:12 ◼   ► it and it can do some cleaning. I was thinking like maybe some restocking of

00:41:16 ◼   ► homeware items, so if it sees that I've like, I don't know, I don't know how much

00:41:20 ◼   ► this thing's gonna follow me around, but like let's just assume that it sees me

00:41:24 ◼   ► throw some olive oil, like an olive oil bottle into the recycling bin that it's like, "I'll

00:41:29 ◼   ► order some olive oil for you." And it just lets me know, like, "Oh hey, I've ordered

00:41:32 ◼   ► some olive oil." Um, also home security. You know, I can have this thing patrolling.

00:41:37 ◼   ► I like that.

00:41:38 ◼   ► Guard dog mode. You can just like walk around the house patrolling stuff.

00:41:41 ◼   ► It's like at the front window and it pulls back the curtain with his robotic arm, just

00:41:45 ◼   ► like, peek out the curtain and then puts it back.

00:41:46 ◼   ► Peeking out and it's like, and you can see, I can see what you're up to out there. And

00:41:50 ◼   ► Also, like, I figure, boombox mode, you know?

00:41:54 ◼   ► Like, you know, walk around and play--

00:41:57 ◼   ► DJ Roomba.

00:41:57 ◼   ► You invented DJ Roomba.

00:41:58 ◼   ► Yeah, I invented DJ Roomba.

00:42:01 ◼   ► So that's what I would like to see an Amazon home robot do.

00:42:06 ◼   ► I mean, obviously, it would have Echo functionality built

00:42:09 ◼   ► into it, right?

00:42:10 ◼   ► Because that's what powers everything.

00:42:12 ◼   ► But it's actually got to do stuff, right?

00:42:15 ◼   ► Like, all of this stuff is going to do stuff.

00:42:17 ◼   ► And I actually have another Amazon story

00:42:20 ◼   ► I want to talk to you about in a minute where it's, you know, it's all about trade-offs,

00:42:23 ◼   ► right? Like, I'm going to allow this thing if it's going to do stuff for me. And allowing

00:42:29 ◼   ► Amazon to put a robot into my home requires significant trade-off that they are willing

00:42:37 ◼   ► to give me in what it can do, right? Like, I want this thing to be fairly priced and

00:42:43 ◼   ► I get a ton of benefit from it because otherwise why am I letting Amazon walk around in my

00:42:50 ◼   ► house right?

00:42:51 ◼   ► I come up with a list of things that I don't want the robot to do.

00:42:56 ◼   ► Okay.

00:42:57 ◼   ► That's more interesting.

00:42:58 ◼   ► I would add to your list I would love for something to be able to, as someone who mowed

00:43:02 ◼   ► their grass this morning, do some yard work for me.

00:43:05 ◼   ► Rake some leaves.

00:43:06 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:43:07 ◼   ► But you know mow the grass.

00:43:08 ◼   ► But things I don't want taken over by robots.

00:43:11 ◼   ► I don't think I want them doing like food preparation.

00:43:14 ◼   ► Like my wife and I cook, we enjoy it.

00:43:17 ◼   ► Maybe some stuff like, I don't know,

00:43:19 ◼   ► like something about like a robot checking

00:43:21 ◼   ► how well done a steak is and like flinging knives

00:43:23 ◼   ► all over my kitchen seems like a weird.

00:43:25 ◼   ► - Oh man, so make me a sandwich.

00:43:28 ◼   ► Like isn't that the best thing?

00:43:29 ◼   ► Like I would love that.

00:43:30 ◼   ► Obviously like yes, I would draw the line,

00:43:33 ◼   ► but like you know, make me a cup of coffee

00:43:35 ◼   ► would be kind of great, I would enjoy that.

00:43:38 ◼   ► - Maybe.

00:43:39 ◼   ► - I think maybe that's version three though, right?

00:43:41 ◼   ► Yeah, that's an in-app purchase.

00:43:43 ◼   ► Yeah, I want to know that it's capable before I let it near the fire.

00:43:48 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:43:49 ◼   ► It just turns on a blender full of rocks.

00:43:51 ◼   ► Oh no, Liam!

00:43:51 ◼   ► Pull Liam.

00:43:52 ◼   ► Oh no.

00:43:53 ◼   ► I don't want it to--

00:43:58 ◼   ► I don't think I want it to take over work stuff.

00:44:01 ◼   ► My thought is a robot should not edit a podcast.

00:44:03 ◼   ► But my bigger thought is I don't want it to assume what task it can take over for me.

00:44:08 ◼   ► I want some sort of system.

00:44:11 ◼   ► "Okay, you can do this, this is how I show you

00:44:14 ◼   ► "how we do it, I don't want it to like,

00:44:16 ◼   ► "I just come home one day and one day it has just like

00:44:18 ◼   ► "rearranged all the furniture or has cleaned out my closet.

00:44:22 ◼   ► "I want it to be responsive and not going out on its own."

00:44:26 ◼   ► And like, "Oh, Steven always edits podcasts

00:44:28 ◼   ► "in the afternoons, I'll just do that one day when he's out.

00:44:30 ◼   ► "Like I don't want to come home and find that happening."

00:44:32 ◼   ► - Yeah, I actually agree with that a lot.

00:44:34 ◼   ► Like I wouldn't want to see that it's doing stuff like that.

00:44:40 ◼   ► Like there has to be an element of like machine learning in a product like this, but I don't

00:44:48 ◼   ► want it to take it upon itself to do things for me.

00:44:51 ◼   ► Even if it has the ability to do them, I want it to ask, right, before it goes ahead and

00:44:57 ◼   ► does stuff like that.

00:45:00 ◼   ► Like this does feel like, I mean, this will happen, right?

00:45:05 ◼   ► I really do believe that we will have robots in our homes one day purely because I feel

00:45:12 ◼   ► like all technology is influenced by science fiction.

00:45:16 ◼   ► And whatever was in science fiction when people were kids is what they eventually want to

00:45:20 ◼   ► make.

00:45:21 ◼   ► Right.

00:45:22 ◼   ► And that we just trend towards science fiction because all of these inventions require people's

00:45:27 ◼   ► imaginations and the best imaginations are the people that create these worlds and then

00:45:33 ◼   ► and that just informs our own imaginations, right?

00:45:36 ◼   ► And then I think a lot of times,

00:45:38 ◼   ► we end up just making what we saw in movies as kids.

00:45:41 ◼   ► And The Jetsons is formative for many of us,

00:45:45 ◼   ► and we gotta have a robot butler at home, I guess.

00:45:49 ◼   ► - Yeah, also, I don't want it to inject itself,

00:45:53 ◼   ► or interject itself, I should say, into relationships.

00:45:57 ◼   ► So I don't want it telling my kids yes or no

00:46:02 ◼   ► thinking watch TV after school or you know hey your wife was mad when she left

00:46:06 ◼   ► the house you didn't see it I'm just giving you a hand like I don't think I

00:46:10 ◼   ► want that in my life yeah I don't want I don't want to be in an argument and then

00:46:16 ◼   ► the robots like actually two days ago you said this right right where it's

00:46:22 ◼   ► like you're arguing about like who said what and then the robot jumps in and

00:46:26 ◼   ► it's like well Bob's right Mary's wrong yeah I don't I don't want that like the

00:46:32 ◼   ► robot should keep its mouth shut in my opinion. Dumb robot. Who does he think he is?

00:46:36 ◼   ► Also, I don't want it to murder anybody. And I say that jokingly, but you said like

00:46:41 ◼   ► a home security system. There's a real question here about ethics. Like, if someone breaks

00:46:46 ◼   ► into my house, does the Echo robot have the right to stop them with force?

00:46:51 ◼   ► I had an imagination feature here earlier today and decided not to put it in the document,

00:46:58 ◼   ► now I will use it because now you've brought that out in me. I was imagining like a net gun.

00:47:03 ◼   ► You come home, there's just a guy in a net in your kitchen like you tried breaking in so I stuck him

00:47:09 ◼   ► in a net. Yeah or if like your phone's not connected to the wi-fi so it doesn't know it's you and then

00:47:14 ◼   ► you get hit with a net. Oh yeah, the wi-fi was down so I thought you were a bad guy. I mean like

00:47:19 ◼   ► when you introduce things like this like these are the questions like you know we're being funny

00:47:24 ◼   ► about it, but hopefully someone's thinking about these things seriously.

00:47:28 ◼   ► It's the self-driving car problem, right? Do you kill ten pedestrians or two people

00:47:35 ◼   ► in the car? These are the things that eventually have to be coded or logic'd out in some way.

00:47:41 ◼   ► If my house is on fire, who does the robot help save?

00:47:45 ◼   ► Who does it go for first? Does it leave the dog? What does the robot do?

00:47:51 ◼   ► I would train mine to take the Drobo.

00:47:54 ◼   ► Get the data out.

00:47:56 ◼   ► Drobo first.

00:47:58 ◼   ► Don't second.

00:47:59 ◼   ► Just throw the Drobo out the window and then come back first.

00:48:02 ◼   ► No, no.

00:48:02 ◼   ► There's hard drives in there.

00:48:03 ◼   ► You've got to be gentle with the Drobo.

00:48:04 ◼   ► You've got to sit it down gently on the sidewalk.

00:48:07 ◼   ► This is when it ejects the balloon

00:48:09 ◼   ► that it ties to the Drobo and pushes it out.

00:48:12 ◼   ► I would take it, but I'm waiting for the Mac Mini

00:48:13 ◼   ► to eject it so I can unplug it safely.

00:48:15 ◼   ► Good robot.

00:48:16 ◼   ► Good robot.

00:48:17 ◼   ► You've learned very well.

00:48:18 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:48:19 ◼   ► I mean who knows, right, like if this is a pie in the sky thing, if this is a real thing.

00:48:24 ◼   ► I agree with you that science fiction to a degree shapes our future because we're, that's

00:48:28 ◼   ► what we grow up with as kids, that's what as adults we want to see happen.

00:48:31 ◼   ► Um, I don't know man, like I like the voices and stuff but this seems like a totally different

00:48:36 ◼   ► thing so I don't think it's anytime soon but it's something worth thinking about.

00:48:41 ◼   ► But it's weird.

00:48:42 ◼   ► It's weird to think about.

00:48:43 ◼   ► It is weird.

00:48:44 ◼   ► Today's episode is also brought to you by Slack, a collaboration hub that lets you organize

00:48:49 ◼   ► your team's work into easily searchable channels. You can use Slack for projects, interests,

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00:50:40 ◼   ► things that I check in the evening. Because my Slack group, the Slack group that we run

00:50:45 ◼   ► now, it's so split so nicely. We have general channels and fun channels where people can

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00:51:00 ◼   ► really an incredible tool. To learn more about Slack, head to slack.com, that is s-l-a-c-k.com.

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00:51:11 ◼   ► every day. Slack, where work happens.

00:51:14 ◼   ► So Amazon, talking about trade-offs. Would you like Amazon to have access to your car?

00:51:22 ◼   ► I like it more than having access to the front door of my house, I think.

00:51:27 ◼   ► This is similar to that front door system thing where you could set up a camera on a

00:51:31 ◼   ► lock Amazon Key I think it was called.

00:51:34 ◼   ► I think Amazon Key now includes this Amazon trunk delivery.

00:51:39 ◼   ► They have partnered with GM and Volvo to allow them to deliver packages to the trunks of

00:51:44 ◼   ► cars in 37 US cities.

00:51:47 ◼   ► This is currently restricted to Prime customers who have cars that are from the 2015 model

00:51:52 ◼   ► year or newer, and they also have to have an active OnStar or Volvo on-call accounts.

00:51:58 ◼   ► What are these things?

00:52:00 ◼   ► OnStar at least is, I think it does a bunch of stuff, but one thing it can do is it monitors

00:52:04 ◼   ► for an accident and then it basically calls you in the car, like not your phone, but it

00:52:09 ◼   ► calls the car.

00:52:10 ◼   ► It's like, "Are you okay?"

00:52:11 ◼   ► It can call 911, it can share your location.

00:52:14 ◼   ► I think OnStar also does like, "Hey, I'm looking for XYZ, can you help me find assistant

00:52:21 ◼   ► type stuff, I'm not really sure. I assume Volvo on Call is similar.

00:52:24 ◼   ► Yeah. One of the other things that they can do, Volvo on Call, and also some of the other GM

00:52:30 ◼   ► connected things, they can actually lock and unlock cars because that's how this is done.

00:52:37 ◼   ► So you use the Amazon Key app to describe the car and you register your

00:52:46 ◼   ► GPS and license plate with it as well. And basically, you can say I want it delivered

00:52:52 ◼   ► to the trunk of my car and as long as your car is parked within a safe radius of an address

00:52:58 ◼   ► already used for an Amazon delivery, so your home or your office or whatever, right, so it's in the

00:53:03 ◼   ► parking lot or it's in the driveway, Amazon will deliver to the trunk of the car. You get notified

00:53:08 ◼   ► every step of the process and it's possible for you to change your mind and block the delivery

00:53:12 ◼   ► at any point forcing the delivery to be sent to a physical location like a front door somewhere

00:53:17 ◼   ► your driver will be sent your license plate and GPS so you can find the vehicle and when they

00:53:22 ◼   ► arrive they make a request to the car's connected service right so like on star over one call

00:53:27 ◼   ► and the trunk is opened so why would you do this is i think a huge question because like

00:53:34 ◼   ► if it's close to your if if the car has to be near your home or your office why would you have

00:53:42 ◼   ► something delivered to the car. So Amazon posted a video because they've been doing

00:53:47 ◼   ► some like data tests of this in some cities and they spoke to some customers and there

00:53:52 ◼   ► were two I think kind of compelling reasons for doing this. One, speaking to a mother

00:54:00 ◼   ► who had diapers delivered to the car because they didn't want a doorbell to ring and wake

00:54:06 ◼   ► the baby?"

00:54:07 ◼   ► It's like, "Okay, makes sense."

00:54:09 ◼   ► Or another person who was saying that they had birthday presents for their child and

00:54:15 ◼   ► they didn't want them to be spotted, so they were put in the car, so then they could

00:54:20 ◼   ► be brought into the house at a safe time.

00:54:23 ◼   ► I could also see this being a better way to receive deliveries at your office.

00:54:27 ◼   ► Because the car's not going to move, and so one of the things that is a good idea about

00:54:34 ◼   ► the giving Amazon access to your front door thing is you don't have to be home, right?

00:54:39 ◼   ► That's the key part of these things is this means that Amazon can deliver without needing

00:54:45 ◼   ► to rearrange deliveries. And the thing about the car is the car is way less personal. They

00:54:51 ◼   ► only have access to their trunk and it's super hard from the trunk in a lot of cars to get

00:54:55 ◼   ► to the main part of the car, right? If you're an average size human being. It's kind of

00:54:59 ◼   ► out of the way, way less personal. They can't get access to you. They're not going to have

00:55:03 ◼   ► problems with pets, right, and all that kind of stuff. So it is a more compelling thing,

00:55:08 ◼   ► I think, than having something delivered directly into your home. But it's still got the weirdness

00:55:15 ◼   ► factor, right? Of like some rando is gonna put something into your car.

00:55:22 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, I guess it feels a lot better than the house. Another situation that I thought

00:55:28 ◼   ► of when you were talking about I had a job years ago where it was actually very difficult

00:55:33 ◼   ► to have packages delivered to the building because the way the building was and the way

00:55:37 ◼   ► security was, it was a real hit or miss situation.

00:55:41 ◼   ► And oftentimes you would end up with something that was, you know, unable to deliver rescheduled

00:55:47 ◼   ► or go pick it up at the depot or something.

00:55:49 ◼   ► And that was frustrating.

00:55:51 ◼   ► And something like this could have, you know, alleviated that because the parking lot wasn't

00:55:56 ◼   ► necessarily all behind a security gate.

00:55:58 ◼   ► So if I knew something was coming today, I could leave my car in the front parking lot

00:56:01 ◼   ► outside of security and something could be delivered to it.

00:56:03 ◼   ► I don't have to deal with the front desk and all that stuff.

00:56:06 ◼   ► So there are reasons for it.

00:56:08 ◼   ► And I do think it feels a lot better than the home, partially because there's a third

00:56:14 ◼   ► party involved because they are requiring that step through OnStar.

00:56:19 ◼   ► You're not giving Amazon a key to your car.

00:56:22 ◼   ► You're giving Amazon the ability to speak to your car manufacturer system that you assumedly

00:56:30 ◼   ► trust and they have that middle step there.

00:56:34 ◼   ► That does feel better to me than having a lock with a code and a camera.

00:56:40 ◼   ► At least now there's some other entity who's aware of what's happening and that's involved.

00:56:46 ◼   ► To me it feels like it's another step of verification in a way.

00:56:51 ◼   ► If I want to cancel it, I just tell OnStar, "Hey, I'm not doing this anymore."

00:56:55 ◼   ► And so if you get any calls, don't let them do it.

00:56:56 ◼   ► Whereas with the house, you have to change your lock because you're going to take the

00:56:59 ◼   ► smart lock off or whatever.

00:57:00 ◼   ► So I think, you know, I don't know if it's particularly useful to me in the way my life

00:57:04 ◼   ► operates but I could see it being useful to people and I could see why you would do this

00:57:09 ◼   ► instead of delivering to your house when no one's home.

00:57:12 ◼   ► Alright, last thing today.

00:57:14 ◼   ► Spotify.

00:57:15 ◼   ► So we spoke a couple of weeks ago that Spotify was having an event this week and we were

00:57:22 ◼   ► thinking that there was this rumored car speaker device that we thought was going to appear.

00:57:29 ◼   ► That did not happen.

00:57:31 ◼   ► So who knows what was going on with that.

00:57:33 ◼   ► Maybe that's still something for the future.

00:57:35 ◼   ► But Spotify did in basically the event was to talk about their business model and some

00:57:40 ◼   ► changes that they're making to their free tier as a way to try and convince

00:57:44 ◼   ► people to subscribe to their service for money. Let me tell you some of these

00:57:49 ◼   ► features, Duman. So one of the things that they're adding to the free tier is

00:57:53 ◼   ► access to 15 select playlists of which you can play any song you want in any

00:57:59 ◼   ► order. Now that might sound a bit peculiar if you've never used Spotify

00:58:03 ◼   ► free tier but previously you've been forced to shuffle playlists and artists

00:58:08 ◼   ► And this is, you know, this is just a restriction that they're trying to put on you so it's frustrating, right?

00:58:14 ◼   ► Because they want you to get the money, but now they're gonna do a free 15 playlists

00:58:19 ◼   ► That you can choose and you can do whatever you want with but these playlists are create created and curated by Spotify

00:58:26 ◼   ► It includes stuff like discover weekly and stuff like that

00:58:29 ◼   ► Outside of this free 15, you're still gonna be forced to shuffle as you were before, right?

00:58:35 ◼   ► so you can't go to like, I don't know, Counting Crows.

00:58:37 ◼   ► I have no idea why they came into my head.

00:58:40 ◼   ► I was trying to think of like a band Steven would like.

00:58:44 ◼   ► And I don't think you like Counting Crows,

00:58:46 ◼   ► but they just came to my head.

00:58:49 ◼   ► I was going to say the Postal Service,

00:58:50 ◼   ► but I was like, that's too sad.

00:58:51 ◼   ► And then, you know what, I think I was trying to think

00:58:54 ◼   ► of Defqab the QT, but say Counting Crows instead.

00:58:56 ◼   ► - Yikes.

00:58:57 ◼   ► - There's the curse sounds, it's the curse sounds.

00:58:59 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean they have that one song everybody likes,

00:59:01 ◼   ► but past that, eh.

00:59:03 ◼   ► - Mm-hmm.

00:59:04 ◼   ► Anyway, but Counting Crows, maybe it's something to do with like parking lots or something

00:59:09 ◼   ► because we were just talking about cars.

00:59:11 ◼   ► Who knows why they popped into my head, but let's say you wanted to listen to Counting

00:59:14 ◼   ► Crows, you're still going to have to have all that shuffled.

00:59:19 ◼   ► You're now going to be asked in the sign up process what your favorite artists are.

00:59:26 ◼   ► This is akin to like Beats Music and then Apple Music.

00:59:28 ◼   ► Yeah the Bubbles.

00:59:29 ◼   ► Yeah the Bubbles.

00:59:30 ◼   ► I wonder if they're going to do Bubbles too.

00:59:33 ◼   ► But this will allow Spotify to immediately tailor their experience to you.

00:59:36 ◼   ► Right, so they'll show you artists more quickly that you're used to without

00:59:41 ◼   ► having to wait for it to learn. They have a feature called

00:59:45 ◼   ► "assisted play listing" which is machine learning to help you build new playlists.

00:59:50 ◼   ► So when you're putting a playlist together

00:59:51 ◼   ► it will suggest songs to you based upon what works with the previous song that

00:59:55 ◼   ► you just added to that playlist. That's really cool. I think that's really

00:59:59 ◼   ► awesome. I like that feature a lot as like this is a way for you to build a cool playlist,

01:00:05 ◼   ► stuff that's going to work well together. I like the sound of that. And a data saving mode

01:00:10 ◼   ► to reduce data for people on smaller data plans. So all of this sounds really good and I guess that

01:00:18 ◼   ► what Spotify is trying to do is to show you how good the service can be if it's like completely

01:00:23 ◼   ► unrestricted to you, especially with the playlist stuff. But do you think that this is going to make

01:00:28 ◼   ► people that wanted the free tier pay for the paid tier like in big enough numbers for them

01:00:33 ◼   ► to actually do this?

01:00:34 ◼   ► Yeah, I don't know.

01:00:36 ◼   ► You know my brother uses Spotify uses the free tier and having music shuffled that I

01:00:41 ◼   ► can control would drive me bananas.

01:00:44 ◼   ► I'm an album front to back kind of guy.

01:00:45 ◼   ► So I get what you're saying.

01:00:48 ◼   ► But this feels like they're just adding more carrot and not any more stick to people who

01:00:51 ◼   ► want to they want to move up to a paid subscription.

01:00:55 ◼   ► So I don't know if it'll work or not.

01:00:57 ◼   ► Spotify is on the hook for making that transition happen more often though because now they

01:01:01 ◼   ► have shareholders and they need, like we spoke about a couple times ago, they need to work

01:01:08 ◼   ► on getting more people onto that paid service and I think you're right.

01:01:12 ◼   ► The playlists are the best things about Spotify and if they can give you a tease of that then

01:01:18 ◼   ► maybe that's enough carrot but I don't know if people will respond or not honestly.

01:01:23 ◼   ► I agree like that the playlists are the thing right like that everybody that loves Spotify talks about discover weekly a lot

01:01:30 ◼   ► Right, and I will say that Apple have those playlists

01:01:33 ◼   ► But I don't know where it's getting some of this information from so like, you know, it has they have like your favorites mix, right?

01:01:40 ◼   ► They consistently show me songs in my favorites mix that I know I only ever listened to twice

01:01:47 ◼   ► Because it was songs from albums from the inquisitive series

01:01:52 ◼   ► It's always got for me like a song from Pavement, which was Brad's band, which I don't like,

01:02:00 ◼   ► or a song from the Sweeney Todd album. And it's like, I know that I've only ever listened

01:02:06 ◼   ► to these like once or twice, like why are they in my favorites mix? And I guess maybe

01:02:10 ◼   ► it's trying to like, make sure it pulls, like doesn't try and have too much of the same

01:02:17 ◼   ► artist or whatever, but I think that there's something going weird in that algorithm where

01:02:22 ◼   ► it's thinking that I want to listen to those. Because I can tell you, I don't, right? Like,

01:02:30 ◼   ► I don't understand why it would show me that stuff. Like it's not giving me an impression

01:02:34 ◼   ► like it's learning what it thinks it knows about me. Like I'm looking at it right now.

01:02:39 ◼   ► And there's a lot of really good stuff in there. Some of my favorite songs, there's

01:02:42 ◼   ► stuff that I do really enjoy, but yeah, there's another Pavement song. Like why is that in

01:02:47 ◼   ► there like I don't like it and I've never listened to it more than once I

01:02:51 ◼   ► listened to it one time because I really didn't like that album and like I just

01:02:55 ◼   ► don't understand like where did that come from all like big girls don't cry

01:02:59 ◼   ► by Frankie Valli in the Four Seasons I know I've not listened to that song in

01:03:03 ◼   ► like four years like I don't understand where that's come from but all of the

01:03:11 ◼   ► other stuff is pretty good happens really good machine learning right I

01:03:15 ◼   ► - I guess so.

01:03:16 ◼   ► - We'll see, I mean I wish them luck,

01:03:18 ◼   ► because Spotify, like I said, they need to do this,

01:03:20 ◼   ► and I think with Apple Music,

01:03:23 ◼   ► it's still way behind Spotify in terms of subscriber count.

01:03:29 ◼   ► It's native, and that's a big leg up,

01:03:32 ◼   ► and Apple can run out the clock on Spotify, right?

01:03:34 ◼   ► Like Apple has, for all intents and purposes,

01:03:37 ◼   ► unlimited money, and Spotify, for all intents and purposes,

01:03:40 ◼   ► does not, so they need to do this.

01:03:44 ◼   ► I wish him luck because I think Spotify being good is good for Apple Music.

01:03:48 ◼   ► I think people who use Spotify, the free service, even if they stay on free, this makes Spotify

01:03:54 ◼   ► stickier and that's a good thing as well.

01:03:56 ◼   ► If you want to find show notes this week, you can do so in your podcast player or you

01:04:01 ◼   ► can head over to the website relay.fm/connected/190 is this week's episode, Today I Learned.

01:04:09 ◼   ► You can get in touch with us while you're there.

01:04:11 ◼   ► You can send us an email with your feedback and follow up.

01:04:14 ◼   ► You can do that on Twitter as well.

01:04:17 ◼   ► You can find Myke there as I-M-Y-K-E.

01:04:20 ◼   ► And Myke is the host of a bunch of shows here on Relay.

01:04:22 ◼   ► Go to relay.fm/shows.

01:04:25 ◼   ► If you like connected, I promise you,

01:04:26 ◼   ► you will find something else that you will love.

01:04:29 ◼   ► Just as much, not more than connected,

01:04:31 ◼   ► but the same amount, equal amounts of love.

01:04:33 ◼   ► If you wanna find me on Twitter,

01:04:35 ◼   ► you can do that as ismh and I write 512pixels.net.

01:04:39 ◼   ► He's not here this week, but we're usually joined by Federico Vittucci.

01:04:43 ◼   ► He is the editor-in-chief at MacStories.net.

01:04:45 ◼   ► If you want to tell him how much you missed him this week, please do that.

01:04:49 ◼   ► You can find him on Twitter @Vittucci.

01:04:54 ◼   ► We'd like to thank Smile, Molecule, and Slack for sponsoring the show this week.

01:04:57 ◼   ► Until next time, Myke, say goodbye.

01:05:00 ◼   ► Adios.