188: A Better Thing Than a No Thing


00:00:00   (upbeat music)

00:00:02   From Relay FM, This is Connected,

00:00:10   episode 188 is brought to you this week

00:00:13   by Warby Parker, Casper, and Simple Contacts.

00:00:17   I'm your host, Stephen Hackett,

00:00:18   and I'm joined, as I am most weeks by my co-host,

00:00:21   Mr. Michael Hurley, how are you?

00:00:23   - Very well, Federico.

00:00:25   (laughing)

00:00:27   - What?

00:00:28   That's what was coming out of my mouth. Hi Steven. Hi

00:00:33   Federico's here too. Hey!

00:00:36   I just wanted him to know. I felt like Federico was just really intrigued to know how I was feeling

00:00:42   So I just thought I would give him that information immediately

00:00:45   Do you often get Federico not confused in conversations? I sense man. Can't tell between them

00:00:50   They're just fancy to me. They do sound very similar. Yeah

00:00:55   So we have a bunch of topics this week in the keeping with how spring of 2018

00:01:01   Has has been it's been a very busy week

00:01:04   We have lots of stuff to talk about but first we need to talk about some follow-up and we're gonna start

00:01:09   With snapchat, which is an app that young people use not just pictures to each other

00:01:14   They'll use they use IG now. They don't use snapchat. I don't know. Can you I G that's what I know

00:01:20   Exactly, because I wanted to show how young and hip I am. IG, they all use IG for their

00:01:27   stories and the like, so you know, they don't use Snapchat anymore, but Snapchat has finally

00:01:34   released the TrueDepth related stuff that was shown on stage during the iPhone X.

00:01:42   In September.

00:01:43   Yeah, in September. So this includes, I think it's three different filters that map to your

00:01:49   face. It also does some portrait mode-y type stuff so it blurs out the background behind

00:01:54   you. It's pretty impressive stuff. I do wonder why it took so long for them to release it

00:01:58   though. But yeah, they're cool. Look at it this way. It took less time to do this than

00:02:04   it is for AirPower to ship. That's true. That's true. You heard it here first. Snapchat, more

00:02:10   effective company than Apple, according to Stephen Hackett. Don't quote me directly.

00:02:16   tweet length quotes right there. But I like them. There's one that's like a wrestling

00:02:27   thing, ultimate warrior. Looks cool, you know? I had nothing else to say on it. But you know,

00:02:32   there you go. They're there if you want them. There's news in the Amazon Echo universe,

00:02:38   a new service or new feature I guess called Intercom. So you can now ask your Echo to

00:02:44   to make announcements to all of the other devices

00:02:48   around the home, so I could be in my office, for instance,

00:02:51   and ask the Amazon assistant to intercom,

00:02:56   or I actually don't know what the command is,

00:02:58   but then I could basically--

00:02:59   - It's either tell everyone or broadcast,

00:03:02   you could say one of those two things.

00:03:04   - Okay, and then it's like ship-wide communication, right?

00:03:07   So I can just be like the voice of God in my house

00:03:10   to everyone inside with the other two echoes.

00:03:12   - Or you can also say announce, so you can say announce,

00:03:14   everyone or broadcast and it doesn't do what you would necessarily think that it would do,

00:03:19   like it doesn't send your voice to the other devices. It's the echoes speak. So if you say

00:03:28   like, "Hey Echo, announce that dinner is ready," then all of them will say, "Dinner is ready."

00:03:35   I want my voice to be booming throughout my house.

00:03:37   I don't know if you ever listened to, because I don't know if you could, if you knew, if I don't

00:03:43   know if people know you can do this, but in the Amazon Echo app, right, there is a section

00:03:50   where you can go through and it tells you what the device thinks that it heard, right?

00:03:55   You can actually listen to the audio. You can press play and actually hear yourself.

00:04:02   The microphone quality is no good, right? Like for human ears, obviously it's fine for

00:04:07   robots, but like it sounds terrible. I actually think this is a better way of doing it.

00:04:13   That feature, when you go back and listen to your recordings, it's almost like in

00:04:18   video games when you find those old tapes, like those audio recordings from other characters,

00:04:24   and you listen back and it's always such a crappy quality.

00:04:27   I hate those things.

00:04:28   Yeah, I know.

00:04:30   Also there is something really weird about listening to the things that you say. It kind

00:04:37   And it feels a bit creepy.

00:04:38   It's sad, the podcaster.

00:04:39   It's what you do for a living.

00:04:41   No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, okay, I need to...

00:04:45   It sounds terrible to listen to my voice.

00:04:47   It's horrible, horrific thing.

00:04:48   No, but because it's like, when you're speaking to it, you're never expecting yourself to

00:04:55   be like really heard.

00:04:57   It kind of sounds weird to me, like when I listen to it, I don't know, it sounds strange.

00:05:01   It just sounds very strange.

00:05:02   Just, I don't know, try it out.

00:05:04   If you think it's not strange, then great.

00:05:05   Maybe I just don't like the sound of my own voice.

00:05:08   For some reason, this is only rolling out

00:05:10   to the US and Canada right now.

00:05:12   I don't know what is wrong with Amazon.

00:05:15   Like there are still features, like I can't get that.

00:05:18   What was that new feature that was announced

00:05:19   a couple of weeks ago,

00:05:21   where you could do the followup thing, right?

00:05:23   Where you can ask multiple things.

00:05:24   I still don't have that.

00:05:25   Like Amazon are creating this, they own the devices.

00:05:28   Why do they not roll out internationally?

00:05:32   I don't get it.

00:05:33   I really don't understand.

00:05:34   I had to wait like six months to get multiple timers.

00:05:37   I just don't understand what they're doing over there.

00:05:42   Come on Amazon, just sort it out.

00:05:44   - I don't know.

00:05:45   So we're gonna wrap up follow up talking about Apple Music.

00:05:50   The service has officially hit 40 million users.

00:05:54   That number had been floated, I think last week,

00:05:57   as sort of a rumor, but it is sort of official now.

00:06:00   And Apple has announced the promotion of Oliver Shucher.

00:06:05   Shucher?

00:06:06   Shucher?

00:06:07   Shucher sounds fancy.

00:06:09   - Shusa.

00:06:10   Shusa.

00:06:11   I think it's just Shusa.

00:06:12   - Is leading Apple Music worldwide, always on.

00:06:15   And is the new Vice President of Apple Music

00:06:19   and International Content.

00:06:21   He's an Apple alum, he's worked on the App Store,

00:06:24   iBooks, and podcast teams.

00:06:26   And he's from some town called London.

00:06:29   I don't know anyone who lives there.

00:06:31   I think it's L'Andane, yeah it's French.

00:06:33   L'Andane, yeah.

00:06:35   They missed, in the copy and paste from this text document, it missed some of the accents.

00:06:39   There's an apostrophe after the L, so it's L'Andane.

00:06:44   L'Andane is island in French.

00:06:49   So it's, yeah it's good, that's what it says.

00:06:51   It's the little island is what it means, if you were to translate it.

00:06:56   So he's from the little island and he played a key role in the Shazam acquisition, which

00:07:03   isn't complete yet because #regulation but that's how he played a role in that.

00:07:08   40 million users, there's a lot of users considering they're all paying.

00:07:12   There's a lot of people man.

00:07:15   That they're doing, I think they're doing a good job of like building that thing.

00:07:18   Like Apple Music, I mean it's one of those things where it surprises me every time I

00:07:22   see the number increasing because I wonder to myself how it's happening. Like why does

00:07:27   it continue to increase? I don't really feel like Apple are specifically doing stuff. I

00:07:33   guess it's just like maybe new people buying devices or just people opening the music app

00:07:38   at a random time and being like "Yeah okay I'll sign up for this." Because it feels like

00:07:42   that it's, I don't know maybe I'm missing it but I feel like it's not as heavily marketed

00:07:47   as Spotify but maybe I'm in the wrong market for it or something right to not see the ads.

00:07:51   I don't know.

00:07:52   - Yeah, and to compare Spotify,

00:07:54   so they just had their IPO last week,

00:07:58   and they're filing paperwork disclosed

00:07:59   that they had 71 million paying users at the end of 2017,

00:08:04   which was up from 48 million in 2016.

00:08:08   But remember, Spotify also has a free tier,

00:08:10   and the free tier has 160 million people on it.

00:08:13   So for Spotify--

00:08:15   - I think that's why it surprises me, right?

00:08:17   that Spotify have got 30 million more paying users,

00:08:22   but Apple doesn't have a free tier for people to try it.

00:08:27   So it's wild that they've gotten to 40 million so quickly.

00:08:30   - They do have the trial, which is what,

00:08:31   is it 30 days or is it still longer?

00:08:34   - Yeah, but I think a lot of people understand

00:08:38   that trials mean you're gonna get,

00:08:40   you're in the system, right?

00:08:42   Free is very different to trial, I think.

00:08:47   But I think it's pretty impressive that they've gotten to this point, especially with Taylor

00:08:52   Swift going back to Spotify.

00:08:55   And Federico.

00:08:56   Really, both of them.

00:08:58   Did you go back because Taylor Swift left?

00:09:00   Yeah, yeah.

00:09:03   Our management decided to go back to Spotify.

00:09:06   There's some bad blood there, maybe.

00:09:09   Is that a Taylor Swift quote from you?

00:09:12   I'm as shocked as anyone.

00:09:14   Wait!

00:09:15   That's a reference.

00:09:16   I just thought that was... wow. I mean, look at you!

00:09:21   Steven, that's uh... you know music. That's uh...

00:09:28   Not made by really sad bands from the early 2000s.

00:09:31   I just assumed that you only listened to the Beatles. Because, you know, old Apple.

00:09:37   Oh, no.

00:09:38   I'm surprised. Congratulations.

00:09:40   Thanks.

00:09:41   Myke, can we end this?

00:09:44   Yeah we most certainly can. Today's show is brought to you by Warby Parker, quality

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00:12:40   of this show.

00:12:41   So there is a new red iPhone rumored on Sunday. Came out Monday. There's a MKBHD unboxing

00:12:50   which you can go and watch which includes just some great sounds of plastic being peeled

00:12:55   off of phones which is one of just my favorite sounds in the world. You know that little

00:12:59   like sound that it makes. And so here we go, right? So this is, we've had this a few times

00:13:05   now, I think once before with the iPhone 7, they did a product red, so you know, money

00:13:11   goes for AIDS research from the sale of these products and people get to get a nice new

00:13:16   red iPhone, right? It's pretty cool.

00:13:19   It is pretty cool, yeah. I just, I just wonder why you don't do this earlier, like in September.

00:13:27   if you could choose between a black iPhone, gold iPhone, silver iPhone, and red iPhone.

00:13:33   I think a lot more people would buy the red ones.

00:13:35   I don't wanna, I almost don't wanna say this, but maybe that's exactly why Apple may not

00:13:43   want to do this because there would be a lot of money that goes to research. Which, I mean,

00:13:49   it's a noble effort and I applaud Apple for doing this. But if you really care about it,

00:13:55   then why not do it in the window of maximum exposure to new customers? And maybe that's

00:14:03   exactly the answer I'm looking for.

00:14:05   Yeah, I think it could be one of two things. One is the money that they don't want to give

00:14:10   away. They want to give away some money, but not all the money. And the other, that maybe

00:14:15   from a design perspective, they prefer their colors. Right? And they want people to have

00:14:21   the colours that they think are the best, rather than adding in red, which is maybe

00:14:25   not the colour Apple would necessarily think was the best for their products.

00:14:29   You know, like there's no iPhone X, right?

00:14:32   Which, and why is that?

00:14:33   Like maybe they think that it doesn't look as good, or maybe they don't, you know,

00:14:37   they want the X to remain this like premium thing, which can only be like silver and black

00:14:41   because it's fancy and premium and grown up, right?

00:14:44   Like I don't know, you know?

00:14:45   But there's definitely something weird about the fact that they do this, and they do it

00:14:50   Did they do it, is there like a World AIDS Day or something that they do it in conjunction

00:14:58   with?

00:14:59   It's in December.

00:15:00   I looked it up.

00:15:01   So yeah, it's not even related to that, right?

00:15:03   Like I would get it if that was the reason.

00:15:05   I think the answer is as cynical as it seems.

00:15:08   They want to prop up mid-cycle iPhone sales.

00:15:10   Like I don't know how many people have gotten to buy this.

00:15:12   I've only seen one red iPhone 7 out in the wild, but it is mid-cycle.

00:15:18   I think actually this week may even start the new quarter for Apple.

00:15:23   I'm not positive about that, but it's mid-cycle.

00:15:26   And if you can get some people in the door to buy a phone in a cycle that's generally

00:15:30   slower then that's not a bad thing from Apple's perspective.

00:15:34   I mean, that's cynical, but I kind of think that's what's going on.

00:15:37   You know, but that's like little column A, little column B, right?

00:15:40   Like it helps you business-wise and also helps the world.

00:15:43   Oh sure, yeah.

00:15:44   Whilst I agree that it's a cynical take, I know that you're not saying this, but it's

00:15:48   still a better thing than a no thing.

00:15:51   Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:15:52   It's better that they do this and get something out of it than not do it at all.

00:15:55   So it's like little column A, little column B, right?

00:16:00   They could just give all their money to AIDS research, but that's not how it works, right?

00:16:04   That's not how these things work.

00:16:05   They partner with this company, they create a thing, it's like a limited edition, people

00:16:09   buy it.

00:16:10   Product Red has been around for like, wow, pretty much as long as I've been interested

00:16:15   in Apple products.

00:16:16   Like, all the iPod Nanos and stuff used to come in these colors.

00:16:20   So you know, it's a cool thing, but I do agree that I think this just comes down to the fact

00:16:25   of like, I would like more colors.

00:16:29   Right?

00:16:31   Just in general, I think that would be really nice.

00:16:35   I haven't, you know, I just don't have any real belief or hope that they're going to

00:16:43   branch outside of the colored aluminum that we have right now.

00:16:47   Yeah, I mean, if you look at the like that, that video MKBHD did, the red looks incredible.

00:16:52   And I'm looking forward to going and seeing it in the store.

00:16:55   Like that would be so great to have that level of saturation in a green or a blue, you know,

00:17:01   know that I've got the 5c phones here and like they're beautiful but they're

00:17:06   sort of they're a little washed out they're not as vibrant as these are I

00:17:09   agree with you I wish Apple would do it because I think it would be it would be

00:17:13   a lot of fun however at the same time for me I always have a case so the color

00:17:18   of the phone doesn't really make a difference in the long run any that's

00:17:21   the huge like other side of this that most people by far have have a case on

00:17:27   their phone and Apple does keep those colors refreshed I feel like Apple would

00:17:30   have to make clear cases if they made colored phones.

00:17:36   Or punch holes in them. That would also be kind of cool.

00:17:39   Yeah, yeah, that's how you do it. That's how you show off the color. Just put a bunch of

00:17:42   holes in a really awkward place. There'll be a link to my 5C video in the

00:17:45   show notes. Go watch it. Of course there will. Yeah, we can put that

00:17:49   in there too. But yeah, this red one, it's more bright. It's definitely more bright than

00:17:53   the last one because it's not the anodized aluminium, which is typically just darker

00:17:57   anyway because of the process. But it does it does look pretty nice, I've got to say.

00:18:01   It's pretty nice. Steven, do you want to break down some Mac Pro news?

00:18:06   I do. So this is at this point now like a week old. So the gist of it, I'm sure everyone's

00:18:12   heard is that Matt Pansarino over at TechCrunch got invited out to Apple's campus and sort

00:18:18   of like a part two of the Mac roundtable last year kind of got a status update on the Mac

00:18:24   Pro and the highlights here are it's a 2019 product that's a direct quote from

00:18:29   from Apple it's not going to be this year I think we had even said on this

00:18:33   show I kind of thought it would be previewed at WWDC and then at least at the

00:18:37   end of this year not true 2019 so that is what it is and I think they wanted to

00:18:43   clear that air for two reasons one you don't want people grumbling at WWDC given

00:18:47   the bad news now they're over it by June and they even addressed this directly in

00:18:51   a quote saying, we have a lot of customers who are debating buying an iMac Pro. And if

00:18:58   they should wait for a Mac Pro or not, and that's a clear signal to those users, if you

00:19:02   need something now, the iMac Pro is your only option for you know, at least at least until

00:19:08   sometime in 2019. So that's fair. I'm glad Apple communicated that because if, if this

00:19:14   keynote in June, came and went with no Mac Pro conversation, like lots of people would

00:19:21   be talking about that. And now we talk about it in April, and we don't talk about in June,

00:19:26   and we can talk about new stuff in June. So it makes lots of sense. The thing I want to talk to

00:19:31   you about is the is a like, why is this process takes so long? But be the the creation and then

00:19:40   the disclosure of what Apple is calling a pro workflow team. So we'll get to that in a second.

00:19:46   But why is this taking so long?

00:19:49   There's a lot of feeling on Twitter,

00:19:51   and including in our follow-up email,

00:19:54   why can't they just put Xeons in a box?

00:19:56   Take the iMac Pro, put it in a box, put some PCI slots in it,

00:20:01   and ship it.

00:20:02   You can build a PC very easily.

00:20:03   Why can't Apple just build a box that runs Mac OS?

00:20:07   I think that's a fair question, and I'm

00:20:09   curious what you all think about that.

00:20:12   Design.

00:20:14   Gotta be proud of the things you're putting out there and whilst I understand people want

00:20:20   Just raw power Apple are never gonna give you that in something that they haven't designed and made special in their own way

00:20:27   They're just not gonna do it right like and I understand that people might want it

00:20:31   But for now, they'll just tell you and I guess there's part of this is why they are telling if you want power by an I'm a pro

00:20:39   Because you got some time.

00:20:40   Right.

00:20:41   And I think, and I like that they came out and kind of said that, that they were thinking

00:20:45   they wanted to protect people that were trying to make purchase decisions.

00:20:48   But that's what they'll tell you until they have something that they're proud of to put

00:20:52   on a poster.

00:20:54   Like Apple is the biggest company in the world, right?

00:20:57   If they released a black box that had all the power in it, that'd be creamed in the

00:21:03   press, right?

00:21:05   For this ugly thing.

00:21:06   Like it doesn't matter who it's for.

00:21:07   It doesn't matter who it's for. Like everyone would find out about the fact that Apple's

00:21:12   not innovating anymore. They can't even make a desktop machine anymore. Like they can't

00:21:16   afford to do that because of the wider impact that I think like a really horrifically boring

00:21:22   looking product would have on them.

00:21:23   Yeah, I think that's fair.

00:21:25   Yeah. So I read this story and I was listening to a few podcasts that covered the news of

00:21:32   this pro workflow team and I don't have any thoughts I don't I don't have any particular

00:21:40   opinion about the Mac Pro itself I did want to talk about the concept of the pro workflow

00:21:47   team and the idea that they called a bunch of people to work at Apple and these people

00:21:52   all use you know Mac computers too for advanced video editing and

00:22:01   you know, all these other tasks that Apple has identified as pro tasks. And in reading this

00:22:07   story on TechCrunch I felt this strange sort of dissonance in terms of marketing from the same

00:22:15   company that sells an iPad Pro to say our pro workflow team is all about macOS. And I'm gonna

00:22:23   be that guy, of course, who says you can also do pro things on iOS. So why is the pro workflow team

00:22:29   Mac only or Mac most of the time at least. It seems like it's not really a pro workflow team

00:22:39   but almost like a team of consultants that they hired to tell them what they should do for the

00:22:45   Mac Pro. But to call it like a pro workflow team, so this umbrella term that should include iOS,

00:22:53   should include, you know, the iPad Pro, which has "Pro" in the name, but seem to be mostly

00:22:59   focused on MacOS and this new computer. It should be called really the MacPro team at

00:23:05   this point, or the MacPro Consultant, you know?

00:23:08   A couple things. One, like, I don't... I would hope, and maybe we give them the benefit of

00:23:14   the doubt, maybe we don't, that Apple does have a group pushing the boundaries of iOS

00:23:20   in the way that this team is helping them with the Mac Pro.

00:23:23   But if you look at the type of tasks

00:23:25   that this computer is built for,

00:23:28   same thing that iMac Pro is built for,

00:23:29   audio production, video production,

00:23:31   rendering, 3D graphics, AR and VR development,

00:23:36   very little of that happens on iOS.

00:23:39   I'm not saying that it can't,

00:23:40   or I'm not saying that it won't in the future,

00:23:43   but if you're talking about people who buy

00:23:46   $10,000 computers to make movies on,

00:23:49   they're just not gonna use an iPad, at least at this point.

00:23:52   And I think that the consumer,

00:23:55   like the professional, excuse me,

00:23:58   the professional market that does still use Apple products

00:24:02   for this stuff, and Apple's lost ground there

00:24:03   over the last few years,

00:24:05   that the Mac is their tool of choice,

00:24:08   because as great as the iPad Pro is,

00:24:11   and as great as some apps on it are,

00:24:13   there's nothing even close to what you can do

00:24:15   in something like Adobe Premiere or Adobe After Effects.

00:24:19   That just doesn't exist on iOS.

00:24:21   And so if you need those tools,

00:24:23   you choose between a Mac and a PC.

00:24:26   And Apple only builds one of those.

00:24:28   So I think to a degree, you're complaining about something

00:24:32   that is sort of a fixed entity, at least now.

00:24:36   Now, will the iPad get there in the future?

00:24:38   I really think it will.

00:24:39   But at this point at least, if you are one of these

00:24:45   really high-end professionals, the Mac or PC is your only option because the iPad isn't

00:24:51   there yet.

00:24:52   It may be there for other types of professional work, and you are the king of that, but in

00:24:58   what they are talking about in this article and what this machine is really designed for,

00:25:02   the iPad is just not really an option.

00:25:06   Just feels strange to me, I suppose, that both platforms are called Pro, Mac Pro, iMac

00:25:13   Pro, and iPad Pro.

00:25:14   It's right there in the name.

00:25:15   I didn't choose the name, Apple did, but only one of them gets the special team.

00:25:20   Well I don't think this team would exist if they weren't building this computer, right?

00:25:25   It feels...

00:25:26   Exactly!

00:25:27   So it's a MacPro consultant team.

00:25:30   They have said that this team is also working on all lines of professional Macintosh, right?

00:25:35   So like the iMacPro and the MacBook Pro will also, like this team will feed into it.

00:25:41   I do have two potential counter points for you Federica.

00:25:45   I think point one is a problem that I can see and I know a lot of people have felt depending

00:25:51   on what type of work they do.

00:25:53   It is who Apple considers to be a creative professional and the type of work a creative

00:25:58   professional does is very constrained to the Mac.

00:26:03   So 3D animation, like all the things that you mentioned, like 3D animation, audio creation

00:26:09   like music, film editing and stuff like that. All of that stuff is better suited to the

00:26:14   Mac. There are a lot of creative professionals that Apple have not chosen to reference and/or

00:26:24   potentially hire to work with to get their opinions on this. You know, like, I know especially

00:26:29   in our community, a lot of developers are like, "Well, okay, like, I am a professional

00:26:33   who uses Macintosh. Do we not look at what my concerns are? Like, is it just people that

00:26:38   use Final Cut and not people that use Xcode. Right? So like, I think that one of the reasons

00:26:44   that this team seems to only be publicly working on stuff that's going to go for the Mac is

00:26:49   that the use cases Apple have chosen to focus on are typically Mac-focused use cases. My

00:26:55   other thought is Apple hired these people, I think, because they had to agree that they

00:27:03   they didn't know what they were doing. Right? Like they needed to hire these people because

00:27:08   they clearly felt like they had been doing wrong to the people using those machines because

00:27:13   everything they did was not making them happy. My thought is maybe they don't feel that way

00:27:20   with iOS. Like Apple feel like they've got that under control. Because like if you look,

00:27:27   everything that they've done for professional iPad users by and large over the last couple

00:27:32   of years has made that community more happy. So that would be my feeling is like they maybe

00:27:40   Apple felt like they'd lost their way for Mac professionals in a way that they haven't

00:27:43   for iOS professionals or at least they feel like they have a better roadmap for iOS professionals

00:27:48   on their own without needing external assistance. So they brought in the pro workflow team for

00:27:53   the Mac because they're just potentially a more complex area anyway trying to understand

00:27:59   how these people work and that maybe they just didn't have a clear enough roadmap

00:28:04   because everything they have been doing has been upsetting the professional community of the Mac.

00:28:09   Yeah, so it's either that they think they're doing okay in terms of addressing the pro

00:28:15   customer on iOS and so they need the extra help for the Mac or they call it an iPad Pro

00:28:24   but they don't really think it's a pro machine in the same way that the Mac can be, which

00:28:30   is true, but...

00:28:31   It's a different kind of professional, and I think that the type of professional on the

00:28:37   Mac is a more complex, have more complex needs.

00:28:41   You know, a professional iPad user, by and large, means someone who uses iOS to do work,

00:28:49   And that work is typically like email and spreadsheets and documents and that kind of

00:28:55   stuff, which is, I think by and large, pretty much taken care of and is getting stronger

00:29:03   in a way that maybe the Mac has not been recently.

00:29:08   You can see that difference in Apple's own tools, right?

00:29:11   So something like iMovie on the iPad is, it has a set of tools and if what you need to

00:29:18   build fits in those tools, that's great. But if you need something like Final Cut or Adobe Premiere,

00:29:24   you know, Apple hasn't brought Final Cut to the iPad yet. They still see a distinction between

00:29:31   what the devices are sort of geared toward what their strengths are, you know, something like

00:29:36   Final Cut benefits from having a big 27 inch display and a keyboard and a trackpad. And maybe

00:29:42   they haven't worked out a way to make that really work on the iPad. I don't know the specifics. But

00:29:47   I think even in the way Apple treats the pro products, they see a distinction in the type

00:29:52   of pro users that gravitate toward each one.

00:29:55   I don't think that means that you know, one is up and one is down in their view.

00:30:00   But I think Myke does have a point that I think they are fully aware at this point.

00:30:04   I think that's what led them to this roundtable a year ago, that their Mac, pro Mac professional

00:30:11   especially in the creative industries, were hurting.

00:30:15   And I have some frustration this machine is taking so long,

00:30:20   but in seeing that they have put this team together,

00:30:23   and that they're working on actual projects,

00:30:27   and producing actual content,

00:30:29   and seeing how it all fits together,

00:30:31   that I find encouraging, because Apple at least

00:30:34   is finally listening to what those users need.

00:30:39   - So we have no idea what teams exist inside of Apple.

00:30:42   Like, Matt Panzorino makes reference to the fact,

00:30:45   this fact in the article, right,

00:30:46   that this team has existed for quite a while now,

00:30:49   but now they're choosing to share it.

00:30:51   So this is just an example of like,

00:30:53   who knows what type of teams

00:30:56   are working on different platforms, right?

00:30:57   Like, there literally could be an iPad Pro workflow team

00:31:01   for all we know, but they just don't feel the need

00:31:03   to share it because it's not required.

00:31:05   - And they're trying to build a case right now

00:31:07   of, we are listening, they are trying to make it right, which is the whole reason they disclosed

00:31:11   it. So I don't think they're...

00:31:13   And honestly, like, if they do have some kind of professional iPad advancement team, now

00:31:18   is the wrong time to share that. Right? You share that information right now, and it's

00:31:23   like more fuel to the fire that they're just going to kill the bank. Which I think right

00:31:27   now is not, is not what Apple want to put out into the world, right? Like, I think that

00:31:33   right now they are laying the groundwork for everything we were talking about last week and

00:31:37   we'll continue talking about for the next couple of months right transitions and one of the best

00:31:42   ways to start this transition is to try and make sure that Mac customers are comfortable right like

00:31:50   because as soon as you start doing something where you're making the Mac more iOS-y it's gonna it's

00:31:57   gonna make a lot of people uncomfortable so laying the groundwork now to show that the Mac is being

00:32:03   is in good hands and being taken care of is a very important thing that Apple need to do.

00:32:07   So, you know, if I'm working there, it's like how much stuff can we do right now to make sure that

00:32:13   our Mac customers feel like they're being taken care of? And that's where stuff like this happens.

00:32:18   Because in a few months time, there might be some kind of software platform which,

00:32:23   in some people's minds, might like devalue Mac development a little bit,

00:32:29   right? And so I think that it is important right now to show that you're being taken care of,

00:32:38   right? And I think that they are, like I think that they can show what they're actually doing

00:32:43   and I think that Apple clearly is recommitted to the Macintosh in a way that they haven't been in

00:32:49   multiple years. So that's why they're proving it, right? They're bringing people in and walking

00:32:56   them around and proving it unless you're a Mac Mini customer. Oh man. That doesn't exist.

00:33:03   They have no pro team caring about those people. No, no. They have a mini team. Just a really tiny

00:33:11   team of people. One in turn. Yeah, this mini, mini, mini team. All right, should we take a

00:33:16   break? Yeah. Do you feel okay, Federico? I do. Yeah, you feel okay now? Yeah. If we helped make

00:33:24   you feel more comfortable. Yeah I mean I'm totally comfortable with my iPad Pro.

00:33:28   I just want to make sure, I just want to make sure that you know it gets some

00:33:34   love. That the pro efforts are not going to be exclusive to the Mac going forward. Maybe me and you should be the pro workflow team.

00:33:43   Yeah I mean do you want to work at Apple? No but like we could just send them a bunch of email about it. Or we can make our own team.

00:33:53   We're the pro workflow team but we don't work at Apple.

00:33:57   Who cares?

00:33:58   Yeah, we're independent and we just...

00:34:00   You know what?

00:34:01   I actually think we've been doing that for the last couple of years.

00:34:03   I think we've already been doing that.

00:34:04   It's like when you hear the news of random people establishing countries.

00:34:08   It's like, "Now I'm the king of..."

00:34:10   Ooh.

00:34:11   We are the independent pro workflow team of iPad.

00:34:16   Good luck with that, guys.

00:34:17   We have our own passports and everything.

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00:36:59   So we were speaking earlier about the fact that Apple were doing great things, you know

00:37:06   have a phone and it goes out and can help improve the world. But they're doing other

00:37:11   things to improve the world. In recycling, Apple has announced, well not recycling, clean

00:37:17   energy is what I'm thinking of. Apple have announced, just you do it. I don't want to

00:37:22   do it anymore. You do it.

00:37:23   Okay. Apple has announced that all of its facilities are now powered by 100% clean energy.

00:37:30   This came out in a press release and then it really, I found at least a very fascinating

00:37:34   article in fast company that kind of walks through like how it actually works is like,

00:37:39   it's not that every Apple store has a solar panel on like the roof of the local mall,

00:37:44   right? It's it's they are purchasing clean energy, they're putting energy back in the

00:37:48   grid and it it bounces out. So every store office data center, everything they said they

00:37:54   have like these little remote offices with like one team in them, even those like they're,

00:37:59   you know, in some other building, they are all accounted for with clean energy. And then

00:38:04   But in that Fast Company article, they talked to Lisa Jackson, who is the executive in charge

00:38:09   of all this at Apple.

00:38:10   And she says, you know, other companies like try to buy credit and like try to like fudge

00:38:15   the numbers and make this work.

00:38:16   And she actually said, you know, Apple, we have been at 96% for a while now.

00:38:21   And some companies would just round that up.

00:38:23   But Apple wants to say no, we are truly 100%.

00:38:28   But what I think is even more impressive, and that is impressive on its own, they're

00:38:31   building solar farms all over the place, all sorts of crazy stuff. But they are working

00:38:36   with their manufacturing partners to have them committed to going 100% clean as well.

00:38:42   So they have nine additional partners they've announced bringing up to a total of 23. So

00:38:48   these are companies that, for instance, you know, make components that go into an iPhone

00:38:54   or an iPad or, you know, the company that, you know, produces this one part of this one

00:38:59   chip or this one type of connector or something. So all these, you know, Apple's manufacturing

00:39:04   this huge web, right, of all these different companies all over the world, and they are

00:39:07   pushing further into that web to say, "Hey, you know, we do this from a corporate standpoint,

00:39:11   we want you to do it as well." And Apple's big enough, right, to say that to somebody,

00:39:15   like, "Hey, you know, it'd be a real shame if something happened to your factory here,

00:39:19   you should hook it up to some clean energy." That's basically, I think, what's happening.

00:39:22   You've hit a strong line with people making them offers they can't refuse.

00:39:25   - Yeah, so this is, like I said,

00:39:27   it's not a solar panel on the roof of every mall

00:39:30   that has an Apple store.

00:39:31   It's more complicated than that.

00:39:33   But it's very clear to me, reading this article,

00:39:35   that Apple takes it very, very seriously,

00:39:38   and that they are, like,

00:39:40   Apple's kind of an energy company, right?

00:39:41   They say that they're not, but they kind of are.

00:39:44   You know, like, you're dealing with all these things

00:39:46   on a massive scale.

00:39:47   We talk about Apple's employee numbers

00:39:49   and how those ranks have just swelled.

00:39:52   Thousands of people are working on this stuff, right?

00:39:53   they're going out into these communities

00:39:55   and talking with local energy companies

00:39:58   and building solar farms and managing wind farms

00:40:01   and all this stuff.

00:40:02   It's a massive effort and it's a real milestone

00:40:04   to hit 100%.

00:40:06   - Yeah, I think any, I mean this is a typical example

00:40:09   of like the weird problems that Apple faces

00:40:12   being the size that they are.

00:40:14   Like they're so large and they have so many customers

00:40:17   and so many employees that they find themselves

00:40:20   walking into all of these weird things.

00:40:22   Like they're also kind of a bank.

00:40:23   - Yeah.

00:40:24   - Right, because they have Apple Pay

00:40:26   and then Apple Pay Cash where they have people's money

00:40:28   and that money can be spent inside of the Apple system.

00:40:31   But because they have so many people,

00:40:32   it kind of makes them like a bank.

00:40:34   And sometimes they have to make sure

00:40:36   that their buildings are powered,

00:40:39   so they have to create huge solar farms

00:40:42   and huge wind farms, as you say,

00:40:44   making them kind of like an electricity company.

00:40:46   'Cause they do buy a lot of this stuff,

00:40:48   but in some instances, they are building it themselves.

00:40:51   They are building their own energy plants or whatever, which is just this really wild

00:40:57   idea to think of the fact that they're doing this.

00:41:02   This is one of those things where you're a company of Apple's size and money, you can

00:41:08   focus on stuff that you care about because you have the ability to do so.

00:41:12   You have the clout to do so.

00:41:13   And with the manufacturing partners, I'm sure it's one of these situations coming to contract

00:41:18   negotiation time and these companies really want to stick with Apple and they're like

00:41:22   "great, I'll tell you what you can do. We want 100% clean energy from you." And it's

00:41:27   like what are you going to do? You need that contract so you do it. So this is like Apple

00:41:31   using their power to do something that is good. You know like in this, so we're saying

00:41:38   there can be a cynical take on the red iPhone right? I feel like there's less of a cynical

00:41:43   take available here. They're not able to sell anything because of the fact that they're

00:41:47   on 100% renewable energy. This just really feels like a thing that you do that makes

00:41:54   this corporate good. That maybe makes some people think better about you, but you can

00:42:00   get away with saying you're 90% and most people will feel pretty much the same. But like they

00:42:05   push it to the final mark because they care about it and because they have the facility

00:42:09   to do it. This is something that they can afford to do. So they just do it.

00:42:13   - They're not done, right?

00:42:14   They are expanding and building more data centers in there.

00:42:18   They talk about their capacity at their data centers.

00:42:21   They expect it to go up, up and up and up

00:42:24   over the next few years as their services business

00:42:26   becomes more important.

00:42:27   So this isn't like, oh, we did it.

00:42:29   Now all these people have something else to do.

00:42:31   It is very much something that will be ongoing

00:42:35   as they build a new data center.

00:42:36   They want to be there on day one

00:42:38   or they lose that 100% mark.

00:42:39   - And additional campuses, additional offices, right?

00:42:43   Like they're building a huge presence here in London

00:42:45   in the converted Battersea power station.

00:42:48   They're apparently building a new big campus,

00:42:50   whatever that actually means, somewhere in the US, right?

00:42:53   So every time they do something like this,

00:42:56   they have to make sure they have the power for it.

00:42:57   Even just a big new stores, right?

00:42:59   Like everything, it becomes a big part.

00:43:01   I expect in the same way that like the device recyclability

00:43:06   became a thing for them, right?

00:43:08   Like when Greenpeace was on their back about the damage

00:43:12   that their devices do into the world,

00:43:13   and then Apple sought to fix it.

00:43:16   Now, like every device that they make,

00:43:17   they have to make considerations

00:43:19   about how recyclable the parts that we're putting into this.

00:43:21   And I expect that that's very similar

00:43:22   when it comes to building new offices.

00:43:24   - And there's still stuff to do there, right?

00:43:25   Like, I mean, I'm just gonna hold off the email

00:43:28   about repairability and that sort of thing,

00:43:29   'cause that is an issue too,

00:43:31   but it's clear that Apple cares about this,

00:43:33   and there's still work to be done.

00:43:35   Like, the iPads are all still glued together.

00:43:36   It's still difficult to take 'em apart

00:43:39   unless you know what you're doing,

00:43:40   but clearly it's something that they are working toward in those other areas as well.

00:43:45   What was the name of the recycling robot?

00:43:47   Liam.

00:43:48   Liam.

00:43:49   I haven't heard about him for a while.

00:43:51   I want to know how he's doing.

00:43:53   All the great lenses.

00:43:55   Okay.

00:43:56   How many of them?

00:43:58   17.

00:43:59   17 lenses on the next iPhone.

00:44:01   Okay.

00:44:02   That's where we're going.

00:44:03   So what's this rumor from?

00:44:05   There was a rumor from the Taiwan Economic Daily News via MacRumors that the next iPhone,

00:44:11   the 2019 iPhone, is going to add a third lens to the camera.

00:44:16   A third 12 megapixel lens.

00:44:19   And this will add to the current two lenses that we have.

00:44:23   What could this do?

00:44:25   Why would you want to add another lens?

00:44:27   Well, something that could be done with another lens is five times zoom.

00:44:31   this would assumedly be from the rumor optical zoom because the iPhones can already do five

00:44:36   times digital zoom even the ten can do ten times. So you would want five times optical

00:44:43   zoom and that would be kind of incredible right? And you think to yourself why would

00:44:49   somebody put three lenses on a phone? Well Huawei just did it with the P20 which if you've

00:44:55   not seen the Huawei P20. That is a good looking cell phone in my opinion. It's got all the

00:45:02   tenants of a current you know like cell phone you'd expect right big screen, thin bezels,

00:45:07   all that kind of stuff. It's got a notch on it right which you can turn on and off which

00:45:13   is kind of hilarious. I love Android man. I freaking love Android because like that

00:45:19   is like maybe the most Android thing that has ever happened. They can turn off the notch

00:45:24   like freaking love that that is incredible like more power to you but

00:45:30   the the real design feature of the Huawei p20 is it has like a need for

00:45:35   speed paint job what is that called when it can yeah you can get two colors and

00:45:40   depending on the light it shows a different color like iridescent yeah

00:45:44   yeah it's like what they put on Fast and Furious cars yes you know yeah that's

00:45:49   what I'm talking about right it's that kind of paying job. This Huawei P20 it has a three

00:45:55   lens system all right. It has a 40 megapixel f1.8 primary lens, a 20 megapixel f1.6 monochrome

00:46:04   lens which I think is to help do a lot of the depth stuff so like they map them together

00:46:09   and then an 8 megapixel f2.4 telephoto lens of a three times optical zoom and I'm going

00:46:14   to put a link in the show notes to a review from The Verge. The photos from this phone

00:46:19   look incredible and it is reviewing very well, right? Like Vlad Savov, who is a great reviewer,

00:46:27   like I really trust the stuff that he's saying, is like, this is a iPhone 10/Samsung Galaxy

00:46:35   S9 competitor, right? Like this is up there. I mean, there are issues with Huawei right

00:46:41   now, Stephen. Am I correct? I've learned this from Subnet.

00:46:43   Yeah, parts of the US government basically want to ban them from the US. We'll see how

00:46:48   that goes.

00:46:49   Yeah, because they are a Chinese company, right? And there's some concern about that.

00:46:56   They're in tight with the Chinese government in ways that make some American politicians

00:47:00   uncomfortable.

00:47:01   No carriers were carrying the previous Huawei phone, so who knows if you can get it, but

00:47:07   does look really great. So I mean now that it exists in a phone you can see why you would

00:47:15   want it right like why it might exist. Like if I could get three or five times optical

00:47:21   zoom on my phone like I think I would very much like that feature even if it meant adding

00:47:27   a third camera to the phone. Especially if they tried to find a way to put it all in

00:47:31   one unit. I do think that the Huawei P20 looks really weird that it has the two camera unit

00:47:36   and then a third like solo lens.

00:47:39   - That's called, we want to look like the iPhone 10,

00:47:41   but we also want a third camera.

00:47:43   Solved it.

00:47:44   - Yeah.

00:47:45   But like I don't know why they can't just put it all in one

00:47:48   three long line. - Yeah, they should have.

00:47:50   - 'Cause like it's not like the bump is still the same.

00:47:53   Like it's the same effect 'cause it's still the same like

00:47:56   row and I would expect that Apple would do that, right?

00:47:59   Like they would put it all in one line.

00:48:02   But like I always want my camera to get better

00:48:05   Even if it means doing weird stuff.

00:48:07   Like the band-aid was ripped off when they turned it into a bump.

00:48:11   At that point you can do whatever you want.

00:48:15   At what point is the entire back of the phone a lens?

00:48:18   Like the entire back is just the...

00:48:21   There's a product out there called the Light L16.

00:48:25   It is a camera.

00:48:27   It's one of the ugliest, just one of the very ugliest consumer products that exist in the

00:48:32   world.

00:48:33   $2,000 but it's about it's like a plus-size phone and it has basically 16 smartphone sensors

00:48:44   in it. The best part is they're all labeled on the back so like this one here is 70 millimeter

00:48:48   mid-range. It's pointless like why? Are you guys familiar with the term "tripophobia"?

00:48:55   Yes, and it triggers me. I don't like that. Yeah, it's basically fear of regular small

00:49:04   holes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. It makes me very uncomfortable. The L16 camera does that to me. Yeah. Yeah.

00:49:12   I don't like it. I don't like it a lot. I'm pleased that we share this. This weird. Yeah.

00:49:20   Yeah, it's, oh God, oh God, I'm Googling

00:49:23   to put it in the show notes to show any images.

00:49:25   - No, no.

00:49:26   - Ah!

00:49:27   (laughing)

00:49:28   - Don't do it, Myke.

00:49:30   - The camera is like, it's always a safe bet

00:49:34   to count on an improved camera in the new iPhone, right?

00:49:37   Like that's the safest draft pick of them all

00:49:40   when it comes to an iPhone event.

00:49:41   The thing that I have really been surprised by

00:49:44   is that I do use that 2X optical zoom kind of a lot.

00:49:49   Like especially on the 10.

00:49:49   - I use a lot.

00:49:50   - Where it's so good, like, I use it if my kids

00:49:53   are doing something or like, you know, something outside,

00:49:55   I wanna punch in a little bit.

00:49:56   So having some more range, I would be all for that.

00:50:00   I think that would really make it

00:50:01   an even more flexible platform.

00:50:04   One thing I think Apple should work on though

00:50:05   is making the trade-offs that come with those,

00:50:08   you know, those lenses a little better.

00:50:11   So, you know, if the f-stops could be the same,

00:50:15   that would be great.

00:50:16   If, you know, they're both optically image,

00:50:19   They're both optically stabilized in the iPhone X.

00:50:22   Having that on this third one would be great.

00:50:24   But I think it, you know, I don't think it's out

00:50:27   of the realm of possibility at all.

00:50:29   - I mean, it's one of those things where like,

00:50:32   if somebody else does it and the benefits are good,

00:50:37   it probably means Apple will do it, right?

00:50:39   So like, I'm thinking like, the notch, right?

00:50:41   Somebody did it before Apple, but for good reason.

00:50:46   So they did it too, right?

00:50:47   So like, I think even multiple lenses somebody did first,

00:50:51   I think, right?

00:50:52   Like having two cameras on a phone.

00:50:55   - I do want to be careful in the way that we phrase that,

00:50:56   because it's not like,

00:50:58   who put the first notch in the phone?

00:51:00   What's-- - Ascension.

00:51:02   - Yeah, they sold like eight of them.

00:51:03   It's not like Apple saw Andy Rubin's new phone,

00:51:06   like, we got it.

00:51:07   There's this idea of parallel development, right?

00:51:11   And people like to defend Apple with this

00:51:14   and not point at Samsung.

00:51:16   All companies do this, right?

00:51:17   we're not drawing lines in the sand.

00:51:19   - Simultaneous creation.

00:51:20   Like if an idea is good enough,

00:51:22   like the industry is all eventually moving towards it.

00:51:25   So like they'll get there together.

00:51:28   Right, like there is no way that like Samsung

00:51:31   can come out with the Infinity Display

00:51:33   and then Apple can come out with the iPhone 10

00:51:35   based upon them working across each other or doing.

00:51:38   Like everyone's moving towards that anyway

00:51:41   because they are the logical movements

00:51:43   of hardware development.

00:51:44   - I just wanted to get that out there.

00:51:45   Yeah, but you know, Huawei did it first probably,

00:51:50   I mean who knows, there's probably some phone somewhere

00:51:52   that might have done this as well,

00:51:53   but they've done it first effectively,

00:51:55   which means that if this is the best way

00:51:58   to do what is trying to be done,

00:51:59   most smartphones will probably do it.

00:52:01   Right, and you can think about the,

00:52:02   one of the things in the Galaxy S9 was the,

00:52:06   what does the lens do, what is it called?

00:52:08   Like where it physically moves?

00:52:10   - The...

00:52:11   - Like the aperture?

00:52:14   it has two apertures. Right, but it seems like all of the reviews people are going like it doesn't

00:52:22   really seem to make a difference. Like it like so probably nobody else would do that for now until

00:52:27   there can be significant difference to it. Like Samsung did it and it makes some difference but

00:52:33   it's really not very much like on a day-to-day basis so that might not be something we see catch

00:52:40   on to everybody else. But like adding more lenses is always going to make, well in theory,

00:52:45   can make things better.

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00:55:07   of this show.

00:55:10   - So we're gonna wrap up this week talking about

00:55:13   this rumor about Spotify.

00:55:15   So like we said, they had their IPO and they're busy,

00:55:19   they have lots of people listening,

00:55:21   but they want even more people listening

00:55:23   'cause that's what you have to do after an IPO.

00:55:25   And so they have an event coming up on April 24th

00:55:27   and it is rumored and it's actually backed up

00:55:30   by like some people like on Reddit and Twitter

00:55:33   saying they've actually like seen marketing materials with this it maybe

00:55:35   it leaked a little bit from Spotify but it seems that Spotify may be developing

00:55:41   an in-car streaming device so it kind of looks like a like a Chromecast you know

00:55:47   it's pretty small and you leave it you know in your car via Bluetooth and it

00:55:53   has voice control which Spotify has been working on where you could just talk to

00:55:57   the app or talk to this device and it would basically kind of more or less

00:56:02   less like hardwire or Bluetooth Spotify to your car stereo.

00:56:06   So you don't have to fiddle with your phone

00:56:08   while you're driving.

00:56:09   You just have this thing that's dedicated,

00:56:10   you know, just kind of lives somewhere

00:56:11   like clipped on the air vent or something.

00:56:13   And obviously uses LTE, so you're looking at,

00:56:16   you know, some sort of subscription,

00:56:18   maybe like $12.99 a month to cover the data.

00:56:20   But it's kind of cool.

00:56:24   I kind of really like this idea.

00:56:25   It's like a, it's kind of like a modern iPod in a way,

00:56:28   if you use Spotify.

00:56:29   So Federico, what do you think about this?

00:56:32   your Spotify user you have a car this makes sense to you?

00:56:34   No I stopped using Spotify like a few months ago but I think it's an awesome idea.

00:56:42   I can't keep up!

00:56:43   I think it's an awesome idea and I kind of wish that Apple made one of these.

00:56:48   If I'm getting the details right so this is an independent device that you can set up

00:56:53   in your car it connects via Bluetooth it's got its own microphone so it does not connect

00:56:58   the microphone via the phone, but it's got its own audio input, and it's got its own cellular

00:57:05   connection, so again, that does not depend on the phone. I think it's an awesome idea,

00:57:10   especially because I have this problem in my car. It does not... I have two problems, actually.

00:57:17   It does not support CarPlay, so it's a Kia car that came out like the year before that Kia

00:57:27   started supporting CarPlay, so I need to use my phone via standard Bluetooth and I get no special

00:57:33   interface in my car's dashboard. And when I try to play music using Siri, there's this delay between

00:57:41   saying the trigger word or pressing the side button and the microphone sound indicating that

00:57:51   Siri input is active, playing on the stereo.

00:57:56   So it's like I gotta press or invoke Siri and then wait like 3 seconds before I can

00:58:01   start talking.

00:58:02   Which is a Bluetooth bug that was never fixed for me and it basically makes voice activation

00:58:08   unusable.

00:58:09   And so I would love to have this kind of device that is independent from the phone, it uses

00:58:17   its own microphone instead of rerouting the input to the car and adding that delay.

00:58:24   There's probably some kind of setting that I can change but I don't know how this stuff works.

00:58:29   I would love to have like an Apple Music puck that I can put in my car and it works.

00:58:35   I think it's an awesome idea. I think if it's done right and if I were a Spotify user,

00:58:42   I would be totally over this and get one immediately.

00:58:46   And again, I'm not sure if I mentioned this on the show before, but I think what, for

00:58:51   example, Google is doing with what's it called?

00:58:54   Android Auto?

00:58:55   Yes.

00:58:56   The CarPlay version of Google.

00:58:58   The fact that it runs on phones, that you can kind of emulate Android Auto on compatible

00:59:04   phones, I think that's a feature that they kind of announced last year.

00:59:08   I think it should be available on iOS too.

00:59:11   Apple should, for people like me who own an iPhone and want to have iOS features in the

00:59:17   car but cannot get a CarPlay car just because Apple, you know, just because of Apple.

00:59:24   I'm not changing the car that I drive because of Apple.

00:59:29   But also I would love to have CarPlay.

00:59:31   So why not enable like a special CarPlay UI mode on my phone?

00:59:35   Like...

00:59:36   Yeah, I mean it could be part of Do Not Disturb While Driving.

00:59:38   Exactly.

00:59:39   Apple clearly feel that CarPlay is safe enough when you're driving.

00:59:43   I feel like these big companies, instead of...

00:59:49   It's awesome that they're working directly with car manufacturers to bring these new

00:59:54   services and software into new models and some select old models.

01:00:01   I think there should be more ways to retroactively bring these features into older cars so that

01:00:08   you're still helping everyone not be distracted or listen to music or bring up navigation.

01:00:15   So whether it's a separate device like Spotify for music playback or what Google is doing

01:00:20   with Android Auto, I welcome all of these initiatives because I think everything you

01:00:24   can do to make me look at my phone less, that gets a big thumbs up from me.

01:00:32   As soon as I saw this Spotify thing, it made me think, are they building their own Kindle?

01:00:38   is like the kettle, right?

01:00:41   'Cause I'm assuming you're not gonna pay

01:00:43   for the cell service in this thing.

01:00:46   Like it's all wrapped up in your monthly fee

01:00:49   because they give you a year commitment, right,

01:00:52   with these things.

01:00:53   And there was like, as you said,

01:00:55   there's multiple models depending on the price.

01:00:57   It seemed to be leaked, one that had echo support,

01:00:59   one that didn't, and the price change

01:01:01   is different for those.

01:01:02   And I would expect it has like some storage on it,

01:01:05   so it's loading music in there,

01:01:06   and then anything else is pulling from 4G.

01:01:10   And I just saw this and was like,

01:01:12   "Huh, this really reminds me of how the Kindle started."

01:01:15   - Yeah.

01:01:16   Yeah.

01:01:17   - I mean, it definitely seems like a smart thing,

01:01:21   but obviously we have no real details about it.

01:01:24   I mean, it may as well be a real product

01:01:26   considering how people have seen it, right?

01:01:29   Like, I don't really look at this as a rumor.

01:01:31   This just looks like something that accidentally leaked.

01:01:33   But there are so many things,

01:01:34   how does this thing actually play music?

01:01:36   Like, does it have a speaker built into it?

01:01:38   How does it connect to your like stereo?

01:01:40   Like, I'm not sure about all of that.

01:01:43   - Because you gotta use the,

01:01:44   I suppose you gotta use the phone to set it up initially.

01:01:47   I guess if it's got, it doesn't have a speaker,

01:01:51   so it connects to the car via Bluetooth.

01:01:54   So it implements the Bluetooth standard,

01:01:57   the what's it called,

01:01:59   it's got a specific name that I don't remember.

01:02:02   and it's got a microphone so you can talk to it and it's like a phone but it's got a

01:02:09   - I don't know - you talk to the small Spotify device which then streams audio via Bluetooth

01:02:16   to the car but then does the car think it's a phone or some other kind of device?

01:02:23   Yeah, that's a good question.

01:02:24   Does it have like a - yeah, because it's not really a phone but if I can connect directly

01:02:29   to the car, it's pretending to be a phone. Which, what happens if you then have an actual

01:02:35   phone that you also want to connect to the car? Like, if I'm supposed to, like, if you

01:02:39   connect this Spotify thing, do you stop receiving phone calls on your phone while driving?

01:02:46   Do you think this is a good idea for Spotify, or do you think it's like a distraction?

01:02:53   I mean, music while driving, it's extremely common. And it's that kind of feature that,

01:03:05   because Spotify does not own the devices that we use, it does not make Android phones, it

01:03:12   does not make iPhones, they are an application. So maybe they have realized that to entice

01:03:21   people to listen more and more and as much as possible, especially when you consider

01:03:25   the things they're doing with podcasting. So like, for example, imagine if you have

01:03:30   this Spotify device and you get in your car in the morning and you ask Spotify to play

01:03:37   the news, and you get this special programming from Spotify. So they need to make sure that

01:03:42   you're always listening no matter where you are. And on the smartphone, they can do that

01:03:47   with the app on your home screen.

01:03:49   But when you're driving, they are at a disadvantage

01:03:52   because both iOS and Android have more integrated systems,

01:03:57   starting from the voice assistant,

01:03:59   which plugs directly into the built-in music service,

01:04:03   especially on iOS.

01:04:05   So I think they want to do this because they need to make sure

01:04:08   that when people are driving, they still listen to Spotify.

01:04:12   Otherwise, they end up like me,

01:04:15   where it's more convenient for me to, despite my Siri problems with the car microphone,

01:04:22   it's still more convenient to use Apple Music because it's integrated with the phone, and

01:04:27   when I'm driving it works better than Spotify.

01:04:30   I get the controls on the watch.

01:04:33   What I started doing is I asked the Siri on the watch to play stuff because the microphone,

01:04:39   it does not redirect to the car's microphone.

01:04:42   It just uses the microphone on the watch.

01:04:44   So I think the problem here is that Spotify wants to make sure that people, exactly like

01:04:51   Google with YouTube, they need to make sure that people stay within Spotify and that they

01:04:56   keep listening multiple times a day.

01:04:58   So how do you do that?

01:05:00   You make a device for the car because otherwise you're still an app and you're subject to limitations

01:05:07   that maybe keep people from listening to Spotify all the time.

01:05:13   My thing is I just I struggle to like conceptualize how Spotify will attempt to sell this to people.

01:05:24   Like what benefits do you actually get as a customer?

01:05:28   Federica basically summed them all up that it's better in the car.

01:05:30   But what it doesn't do, I don't think it draws like new people to Spotify, right?

01:05:36   Because the reality is most people are just going to look at their phones, right?

01:05:39   Like we can just be honest about that.

01:05:41   We shouldn't, but people do.

01:05:43   So I don't think it's gonna be a big growth push for them,

01:05:48   but I think if you're really in the Spotify camp,

01:05:52   it maybe reduces friction and keeps you there

01:05:55   as a defense against Apple Music and Siri,

01:05:59   which I think is enough.

01:05:59   I think it's enough reason for this to exist.

01:06:02   - Yeah, yeah, I mean, I don't have a car,

01:06:05   so maybe I don't resonate with the use case as much,

01:06:08   but it just seems super strange.

01:06:10   It's just interesting that you can say to people,

01:06:12   like here is this device that you connect to Bluetooth

01:06:15   and play music on.

01:06:16   So well I can do it on my phone.

01:06:17   - Right.

01:06:18   - Right, so you know what I mean?

01:06:19   It's just like the real benefits that you're trying

01:06:22   to get people to sign up for it.

01:06:24   I mean, you know, one of them is like, hey, it's free

01:06:27   if you sign up for it, yeah.

01:06:29   - Yeah.

01:06:30   - That might be enough of a reason.

01:06:32   But I'm keen to see what happens with this.

01:06:35   Like clearly this is what happens when you have an IPO.

01:06:40   Right?

01:06:41   You gotta keep doing stuff.

01:06:42   You gotta try and advance.

01:06:43   Keep working.

01:06:44   You gotta keep doing stuff.

01:06:45   I saw a rumor today about Snapchat Spectacles too.

01:06:49   You know like this is what you have to do I think when you put yourself on the stock

01:06:54   market.

01:06:55   But Spotify are in...

01:06:59   I wouldn't...

01:07:00   I don't want to say danger because they're not.

01:07:02   But they are in... they are I think an at risk company going into the future.

01:07:08   Even though they are the dominant company in this space right now, you know, we spoke

01:07:13   about this many times, this is all they do is music.

01:07:18   And if that industry continues to get trickier for them, if it's harder for them to make

01:07:22   money, they have nothing to undercut it with.

01:07:25   And I guess locking people in to longer term contracts by sweetening them with devices

01:07:30   could be a good way to continue your, like, to like solidify your future success, I guess.

01:07:37   their company that is competing with first-party services. Apple Music's baked into the

01:07:42   OS. That's a big uphill battle.

01:07:48   And putting yourself on the stock market opens you up to this stuff in a more risky way.

01:07:52   Yeah, I think so.

01:07:53   Apple announced something and then Spotify's stock can plummet. That wouldn't have been

01:07:58   something that happened pre-IPO.

01:07:59   Right.

01:08:00   Yeah, it's interesting. It is interesting. What is this, two weeks away maybe, this event

01:08:04   that they're having, which they might announce this?

01:08:06   Yeah, two weeks from yesterday.

01:08:07   couple of weeks yeah all right so keep an eye out for it I think that does it I

01:08:11   think we've done it if you want to find show notes this week for all the stuff

01:08:15   we've talked about head over to relay.fm/connected/188 if you're

01:08:21   there you can get in touch you can send us an email or of course you can find

01:08:25   us on Twitter you can find Myke as I M Y K E and Myke hosts a bunch of shows here

01:08:30   at Relay FM. You can find Federico at V-I-T-I-C-C-I and he writes and is the editor-in-chief,

01:08:38   you know, the steady hand on the wheel at maxstories.net and you can find me on Twitter

01:08:43   as ismh and I write 512pixels.net. Big thanks to our sponsors this week, Warby Parker, Casper

01:08:50   and Simple Contacts and until next week guys, say goodbye. Adios.