182: Wireless Charging Denier


00:00:00   So I'm going to start now. I'm not going to do my regular start because changing it up.

00:00:04   So I've wrestled back control of the show. It's mine again for this week. Today's episode of

00:00:18   Connected is brought to you by Squarespace, PDF Pen and Pingdom. There is no Steven, so you know,

00:00:25   If you've been enjoying the Steven regime, it has been overthrown for one week.

00:00:30   And I'm joined by Federico. Hi Federico.

00:00:32   Hi, Myke. You have banned Steven from this podcast.

00:00:37   Yeah, he has been banned. Banned for bad behavior.

00:00:40   So that's what happens now when Steven's not on the show.

00:00:43   He has been banned because when I'm on the show, I'm dead.

00:00:45   So Steven has been Steven. Yeah.

00:00:48   Putting time out for a week.

00:00:50   He has done unimaginable things and we needed to ban Steven

00:00:55   because of the things he's done, which we cannot share.

00:00:57   But Steven has done the unthinkable,

00:00:59   and he didn't deserve to be on the show anymore.

00:01:02   - So here's the deal, dear listener.

00:01:06   I wasn't on this episode, but I am editing this episode.

00:01:10   I have not been banned.

00:01:12   I will not have my name sullied

00:01:14   by these so-called co-hosts of mine.

00:01:17   So every once in a while during this episode,

00:01:19   I may chime in and add my own thoughts.

00:01:24   And as is usual when Steven doesn't show up,

00:01:27   there is no follow up, so there will be no follow up today.

00:01:30   I am gonna do a piece of follow out,

00:01:33   which is to recommend and let people know about a new show

00:01:37   that we have at Relay FM called Subnet.

00:01:39   Subnet is hosted by the banished one, Steven Hackett.

00:01:42   And it is a week on weekdays,

00:01:46   Steven posts a couple of minutes every morning or for you

00:01:51   with tech head, it's all the tech stories you wanna know.

00:01:53   So Subnet is basically our flash briefing show,

00:01:56   and it is available on Amazon Echoes and Google Homes.

00:01:59   And you can also tune in on your HomePod,

00:02:01   and Federico has a little hack for that,

00:02:03   which he'll tell us about in a minute.

00:02:04   But what I love about Subnet,

00:02:06   I'm kind of getting ready in the morning,

00:02:08   and I'm making my coffee,

00:02:09   and I ask my Echo to give me my flash briefing.

00:02:12   And Stephen tells me about the technology stories

00:02:14   that I need to know.

00:02:15   And I feel like I'm somebody

00:02:16   who is pretty informed about technology,

00:02:19   but every day he tells me stories

00:02:21   for some reason I had no idea existed, which is very good because it's kind of just helping

00:02:26   me keep abreast of what's happening in the wider world of technologies. It covers all kinds of

00:02:30   technology. It's very, very good, very, very good. Go to relay.fm/subnet and you can find out more

00:02:36   about how to subscribe or you can just set it up on your Google Home or on your Amazon Echo.

00:02:41   There are skills that you can enable. Currently, these skills are only available in the US and the

00:02:45   UK, but they are being expanded to, I think, basically every native English-speaking country

00:02:51   We're doing this with Anchor, we're working with Anchor, and Anchor are working with Amazon on our behalf.

00:02:56   Turns out Amazon are really difficult with the skill stuff and the language support.

00:03:01   It's really freaking annoying, but we're working on it. But you can go and you can try it out.

00:03:05   Or you can listen to it on iOS devices with the Apple podcast app, which also extends out to HomePod.

00:03:11   And because Siri sucks, it tries to play for me a Shakespeare sonnet every time. I'm not killing.

00:03:17   when I ask for subnet it plays me a sonnet. Federico you have a tip that you stole

00:03:25   which you've incorporated into your life. Yes I saw this tip on Twitter courtesy of Terra

00:03:32   Man. It's a way to, if you have a home pod especially, or just any device with Siri,

00:03:38   to create in the Apple Podcasts app, which I've been testing again because of the home pods,

00:03:47   you can create what are called stations. So basically playlists, they're called stations.

00:03:53   And the benefit of setting up a station in the HomePod, or rather in the Apple Podcast app,

00:04:00   and to use the HomePod, is that you can ask Siri to play your station with just a single command,

00:04:07   which is very convenient because, of course, you know, Siri integration is limited to Apple-owned

00:04:13   apps. And what I do and what Terra also does is you create a station and to this station

00:04:22   you add a bunch of these new types of daily shows like subnet or 9to5Mac daily. Actually,

00:04:29   if you have recommendations for other daily tech shows like two minute, three minute podcasts,

00:04:34   I would love to know. And every morning when you're making coffee or having breakfast or

00:04:39   something, you can ask Siri to play your station. The limitation that I've found is that my station

00:04:46   is called TechNews, and if I ask Siri to play my TechNews, it starts playing some kind of

00:04:54   unrelated tech podcast that is called TechNews, which is not in my library, which is kind of weird

00:05:01   because it goes to iTunes search, I guess, to find that show. Anyway, the correct syntax for me

00:05:08   is to say "Play my tech news podcast station" because if I omit the word podcast it also starts

00:05:16   playing a radio station on Apple Music which I guess there's a tech news station on Apple Music

00:05:23   for some reason. Anyway, if you say "Play my tech news podcast station" it'll work and it'll sync

00:05:30   sync with iCloud. Also this is a sub-level teachy tip. I would say make sure that if

00:05:38   you're using the Apple podcast app that you manually pull to refresh. Because I've discovered

00:05:44   that sometimes, once you stop listening on your iPhone and you want to continue on the

00:05:50   HomePod, sometimes you've got to manually sync your progress. Otherwise the HomePod

00:05:57   will not pick up your playback position. So yeah, create a station, add subnet to the

00:06:03   station, bunch of other daily shows, and listen to Steven's, you know, soft tones as you're

00:06:10   brewing coffee in the morning. It's perfect for that.

00:06:14   So Apple had a press release today about some Apple Watch features, right?

00:06:19   Yes. Which is kind of strange, because these features, they actually launched with Watch

00:06:25   WatchOS 4.2 in December, but Apple decided today to have this kind of big marketing push

00:06:31   with the press release, a bunch of stories and recommendations on the App Store, and

00:06:37   I assume some more media coverage coming later this week.

00:06:42   What they are doing is they are promoting watch apps that use the new workout APIs in

00:06:49   in watchOS 4.2 to integrate skiing and snowboarding activities with the Workout API, with the

00:06:59   Health app on the iPhone, and with the Activity app on the iPhone and Apple Watch.

00:07:04   These apps include Slopes by our friend Curtis Herbert, and there's another called Snow with

00:07:10   two Ws, which I originally thought was a typo from the Apple press release.

00:07:15   like "sno". But no, that's the name. It's interesting because I see it as a way, and

00:07:25   I should say before I move on, that you will be able to track the vertical descent, the

00:07:30   horizontal distance of your runs, the number of runs, your speed, your total time, and

00:07:36   your calories burned. Which is actually pretty neat, this is pretty awesome. Anyway, I think

00:07:42   it's interesting because it's a fascinating PR approach to what is effectively a delayed

00:07:48   feature, which was originally announced with the Apple Watch Series 3 in September, delayed

00:07:56   to WatchOS 4.2 in December, and now promoted at the end of February on the App Store and

00:08:04   with the press release through the help of third-party developers. I think it's an interesting

00:08:09   approach to, you know, we've been talking about Apple sort of having this a bunch

00:08:13   of iOS features and watchOS features sort of scattered throughout the year

00:08:18   and this is another approach to that problem of how do we make a big push?

00:08:23   Well, we ask developers to coordinate their app updates with us so that we can

00:08:29   have one cohesive story with the press release, a dedicated section in the today

00:08:35   view of the App Store and we can maybe get in touch with some

00:08:39   websites that talk about ski resorts and that type of stuff like dedicated

00:08:43   publications so we can have more coverage. I think it's really smart from

00:08:47   an API perspective. I think one of the things about this that interests me the

00:08:51   most is that Apple built the APIs but didn't put it into the workout app

00:08:56   themselves, which is weird. Because they built this for swimming, right?

00:09:01   Because swimming and like skiing, right, there are specific movements that are specific to

00:09:07   that type of activity that if you want to track properly you have to do the work.

00:09:12   Like I, one of my favorite things that the watch can do, it knows what type of swimming

00:09:18   I'm doing, it knows if I'm doing backstroke, freestyle, yeah, or breaststroke.

00:09:23   And it will, when I'm done with a swim, it will list out what it believes I've done in

00:09:29   like in meters in each stroke and that's because of the work they've put in. It's not simply like

00:09:34   how long are you doing this for right? Which you know I would assume for a lot of the general

00:09:40   workout activities they're just tracking how long have you been doing this for, estimating some kind

00:09:45   of distance based upon what type of work you're doing and showing you the calories burned right?

00:09:49   That's like the general thing but they went into specifics of swimming in the same way that they've

00:09:54   they've gone into specifics of skiing, but they haven't included skiing into the workouts

00:09:58   app. So one thing that I look at, I find this interesting, but another way that I look at

00:10:03   it is I expect now many more types of activities like this, which are kind of like pseudo sports

00:10:09   for a lot of people, but like they're like recreational activities for others where the

00:10:13   app will start to rely on third parties so they don't clog up the workout app, right?

00:10:18   So other types of activities, like, I don't know, maybe rowing or football or tennis or

00:10:28   something like that, where you're doing some other kind of sporting activity.

00:10:31   Well tennis is a sport, I think.

00:10:34   Well yeah, but it's something people play in the same way that like skiing is a sport,

00:10:39   right?

00:10:40   But do you know what I mean?

00:10:41   Like finding… and when I said rowing, I meant like literally rowing in a boat, not

00:10:45   in like a machine.

00:10:47   So I don't know, I honestly expect to see them do more with this, exposing the APIs,

00:10:53   but then kind of just giving it over to third parties to work on. I think that's a good

00:10:58   approach. It's an interesting approach, at least.

00:11:00   Yeah. I mean, because you're still burning calories and you're still doing physical exercise,

00:11:05   even if you're shoveling snow. Now, I don't think Apple will have a shoveling type of

00:11:10   workout in the workout app, but maybe someone else could make a third party app for, you

00:11:17   know if you live in Chicago like a friend John and and you need to shovel

00:11:20   snow on a weekly basis in the winter I mean that that's an exercise you know I

00:11:26   hear from John that... And wouldn't that be kind of cute right like if they were to

00:11:30   sneak stuff like that in? Yeah. Right like it can tell it's like hey you shoveling

00:11:35   snow right now let's stick there and there's something kind of fun about that

00:11:37   that I would kind of like. I spent some time yesterday digging holes in my yard

00:11:43   dealing with some old house problems and this would be pretty nice. I think I

00:11:48   tweeted that I actually filled my exercise ring by digging holes. It wasn't a

00:11:52   single workout but the the Apple Watch knew that I was working harder than I

00:11:56   normally do. And by the way my plumbing it's all fixed.

00:12:01   So we we have some news regarding Ring. Myke what is Ring exactly? Ring is a

00:12:09   a digital doorbell, a video camera doorbell. I will say they have been a sponsor of Relay

00:12:15   FM like a year or so ago, but like it's not important for this discussion.

00:12:18   That's, that's, that's what, that's totally why they've been acquired by Amazon.

00:12:24   Yeah, we gave them the platform that they needed to go ahead and be acquired for $1

00:12:30   billion by Amazon. But it's like one of, it's like a home security system, but it goes on

00:12:34   the outside of the door. You know, like it's got sensors in it, it's got a camera in it.

00:12:40   My uncle has one of them and it's cool. Like it is a cool piece of technology because you

00:12:44   know, you can, if anybody walks past, it will send a notification to you and you can speak

00:12:49   to people through the doorbell. They also do cameras, they expand it to like everything,

00:12:54   right? Creating like a home security system. Well, it was announced yesterday that Amazon

00:12:59   of bought Ring for a billion dollars, it is expected that they are going to use this as

00:13:06   a way to bolster the Amazon Key project, which is, you may remember this, this is the thing

00:13:15   where Amazon will set you up with, like you buy it but they come and fit it, a lock, some

00:13:21   kind of camera doorbell, and I think Ring was one of the camera doorbells they were

00:13:27   working with anyway and that meant that delivery drivers could come to your house, they could

00:13:32   be let in, they could just leave a package for you and go.

00:13:37   So it is expected, and I think it's easy to see, that they have bought Ring so they can

00:13:42   brand their own technology and use Ring's expertise in helping them create and expand

00:13:49   this and maybe even also, and probably very likely, offering this as a service to existing

00:13:55   Ring digital doorbell owners. Because they have also bought probably, and I think it's

00:14:02   pretty easy to assume, the largest current user base of digital doorbells. They have

00:14:07   just bought those, right? Because Ring is pretty popular. And I mean, I honestly don't

00:14:13   know another one. I'm sure that there are other ones, but like Ring is the only one,

00:14:17   at least in my mind, that occupies any kind of like brain space.

00:14:22   So this is not, is this also a door lock or just a doorbell?

00:14:27   I believe that Ring only do a doorbell.

00:14:29   That is correct.

00:14:32   And but there are other companies that do door locks.

00:14:35   I mean, honestly, I now expect to see

00:14:37   if there is some kind of third party vendor that makes locks. Right.

00:14:41   I expect to see Amazon buy them now as well.

00:14:43   Like like is that like the August smart lock?

00:14:47   Yeah, I know that one.

00:14:49   I know that one.

00:14:49   And then there are existing companies like Kensington, right, who make

00:14:52   make actual locks, they make them as well, right? Because they're trying to make sure that they

00:14:56   remain relevant, which is a smart thing to do. So I kind of have a couple of thoughts about this,

00:15:01   that kind of questions like, if you're a customer of Ring, like how, how, how would you feel about

00:15:07   this? Like, is it frustrating to have the company that you've kind of invested into your home change

00:15:14   hands and then possibly change direction? But if you get additional features, is it worth it? Like,

00:15:20   what do you think about this? I know that neither of us have these, but how do you expect

00:15:25   you would feel if you were a customer of Ring?

00:15:29   I wonder if the customer of Ring is the type of person who also owns an Amazon Echo. Because

00:15:37   if that's the case...

00:15:38   I mean, there's got to be a pretty good overlap. Like if you're in the digital doorbell world,

00:15:43   you probably have another product that hooks into that sort of stuff.

00:15:48   Exactly. Now, if you are a Google person, now this may be a problem because you are

00:15:52   in a different ecosystem.

00:15:53   Oh man, I wouldn't be surprised if Amazon still extended that out. You know what they're

00:15:57   like. I mean, all of this stuff is just to make sure that people buy more things from

00:16:00   Amazon.

00:16:01   I don't know. On one hand, there's the ecosystem play that I think it's interesting to consider.

00:16:09   Like if you're the tech-obsessed person who buys a digital doorbell because you want streaming

00:16:15   video when someone rings at your door. Are you happy that now Amazon owns the doorbell?

00:16:22   But also there's the fact that this ties into the whole system of the Amazon delivery person

00:16:29   is coming to your house and now we have a better... like I don't want this to sound

00:16:36   wrong but you could make the case for the Ring doorbell to be an employee monitoring

00:16:41   system for Amazon to check how their delivery people actually work.

00:16:46   I think that that is definitely another part of the Amazon Key project, that they get to

00:16:52   know how their people are actually working.

00:16:55   Yeah.

00:16:56   I mean, it's not a wild thing to assume.

00:16:59   There has been this...

00:17:00   Now, I don't know if this is actually...

00:17:02   You know that...

00:17:03   I should give you some context.

00:17:05   Italian folks have been obsessed with this word that they have discovered over the past

00:17:11   few months under the elections, which is fake news. Now, everywhere in Italy, on a

00:17:18   daily basis, on the news, on websites, on newspapers, you see mentions of fake news.

00:17:23   And there's been this story that was going around a few weeks ago of Amazon

00:17:29   using ankle bracelets on employees working in the Italian shipping center,

00:17:36   distribution center in Northern Italy,

00:17:40   using these ankle bracelets to monitor

00:17:43   what the employees were doing inside of the warehouse.

00:17:46   And there's been this huge outcry

00:17:48   about these ankle bracelets.

00:17:50   And I think a couple of Amazon spoke people.

00:17:53   They said, "We're doing --

00:17:57   This is just like a patent.

00:18:00   It's not like a real product. This is fake news."

00:18:03   But I think even the fact that Amazon is exploring the idea of, you know, ankle bracelets...

00:18:10   Like you still thought of it?

00:18:14   Like the devices that, you know, law enforcement use for house arrest, basically.

00:18:21   Use those to monitor employees.

00:18:23   Even the fact that somebody at Amazon thought about this idea is terrifying to me.

00:18:32   And so when you mentioned the doorbell with video and the Amazon Key project, I mean,

00:18:35   of course they're going to check on how the Amazon delivery person actually does the work

00:18:42   at your door. Man, it's creepy from that point of view.

00:18:46   Let me ask you a super quick question, because we never actually spoke about the Amazon Key.

00:18:51   It was in my list for a while and we just never got to it. Would you use this? I mean,

00:18:56   you have a very specific problem, right? Would you use this?

00:18:59   No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

00:19:00   no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

00:19:01   no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

00:19:02   no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

00:19:03   no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no

00:19:03   I'm not letting anybody in my house, not even in, you know, not even before, like in the

00:19:10   area between the front door and the actual door. I don't know if there's a name for that,

00:19:16   like like, yeah, like the porch or whatever. Like the porch or something? The hallway?

00:19:19   Okay, I see what you mean. Yeah, yeah, okay. I'm like, no, no, my personal stance is that,

00:19:25   No, the package stays outside.

00:19:28   Yeah, I don't I don't have a complete answer.

00:19:33   Why?

00:19:35   Because I fully appreciate the creepiness to it, but I would want to like weigh

00:19:43   this up in the way that I weigh up every argument of like creepiness versus

00:19:48   convenience. The good thing is I'm at home most of the time when Amazon

00:19:52   deliveries are coming in. But like if I didn't work at home I might consider

00:19:56   this. Like if my house is empty every day Amazon just can't deliver to me like

00:20:02   ever. But if I had this then they can. And I know that I hate it when I miss

00:20:09   deliveries. Maybe you should just move next door to a bakery. Yeah I mean it's

00:20:17   just it's just creepy from that point of view and as you mentioned real quick

00:20:21   it's not an ankle bracelet, it's a wristband. I found, I found, so that's, that's still...

00:20:26   -Riskstand feels better than an ankle bracelet in a way that I can't fully explain.

00:20:30   -You're still, you're still asking employees to put on a thing that, anyway, anyway, I understand

00:20:39   why you, why you would like the idea of never missing a delivery, but still there's the idea...

00:20:47   But yeah, this is my thing. This isn't a clear cut thing because there is still that "hmm, but, hmm, but"

00:20:54   [Music]

00:20:57   That runs around in my brain. Because this isn't a problem with Amazon. This is a problem with other humans.

00:21:06   Do you know what I mean? Like a lot of these problems are like, "I have a problem with the company."

00:21:11   but I don't necessarily have a problem with the company, but this is just like random people

00:21:15   walking into my home, right? So that's the problem I have. There's a good video that I put in the

00:21:21   show notes from the Washington Post, they put a video together about this, like showing how

00:21:26   people are actually delivering. It looks interesting. I recommend people go and watch it.

00:21:30   But anyway, let's take a break and thank Squarespace for supporting the show. Enter the

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00:21:53   you put your ideas online. No matter what type of website you want to make, Squarespace has all of

00:21:57   the tools that you're going to need. You don't have to install anything, you don't have to patch

00:22:01   or upgrade anything, they take care of all of that stuff for you. Maybe you want to make a blog,

00:22:05   maybe you eventually want to add a store to it. Maybe you have a gallery of images that you want

00:22:10   to show in a beautiful portfolio. Maybe you have a business and you want to be able to show people

00:22:14   information like maps and opening times and all that kind of jazz. Squarespace has all of the

00:22:19   tools for all of these and so much more. If you can imagine it, I'm sure you can build it with

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00:22:39   to Squarespace for the continued support of this show and Relay FM. Squarespace, make your next

00:22:44   move, make your next website. So do you remember that was probably a month or so ago? Ming-Chi Kuo

00:22:51   had a report with KGI Securities about the upcoming line of iPhones for this year, right? And it

00:23:01   included a complete refresh, three phones, different sizes, etc, etc. As of yesterday,

00:23:09   when we're recording this, so on Monday, Monday 26th of February, Mark Gurman, I was gonna

00:23:17   call him Mark Bloomberg, which was something that Jason did on upgrade. So there's just

00:23:22   something in me now.

00:23:23   He said, he said, he said, Glumberg or something.

00:23:27   Gloomburg, that was it. Mark Gloomburg. The very talented Mark Gurman reported in Bloomberg

00:23:37   basically confirming this and giving some additional details. So based upon Mark's sources,

00:23:43   in 2018 we're going to see three phones. The first one, which is kind of the headline of

00:23:48   this, is an iPhone X Plus. It will have a screen, it will be basically the body of the

00:23:53   the current Plus model, with a screen size of close to 6.5 inches, making it one of the

00:23:58   largest screens in a mainstream phone on the market. The possibility of the screen resolution

00:24:04   of this will be 1242 x 2688, which is the most awkward screen resolution I think I've

00:24:10   ever come across.

00:24:11   - Bunch of random numbers.

00:24:13   - Just nothingness. It will have all of the features from the X, like an OLED screen,

00:24:18   face ID and Apple are considering adding a dual SIM card slot. This would be for the

00:24:23   first time it's done. This is a big feature in some markets in Europe and in Asia. It's

00:24:28   for business travelers, right? When you're traveling across a landmass where you might

00:24:32   need different SIM cards, which is not necessarily a thing that happens in the US. Depends on

00:24:37   availability of carrier. But obviously the Apple SIM will be a perfect task for this,

00:24:42   like on the iPad. So you could just buy whatever you need when you need it. But as you can

00:24:48   understand carriers are pushing Apple on this which is why the Apple sim does not exist

00:24:55   in a phone right now. As well as the iPhone 10 plus there will be an update to the iPhone

00:25:00   10 probably like an iPhone 10s or something like that. It will feature a faster processor

00:25:05   with all the regular updates but they are considering adding a gold color to the line

00:25:10   which this phone would get. And then also I mean I don't know which is more interesting

00:25:15   to me either the Plus or this, which is a lower cost iPhone X style phone. Let's call

00:25:19   it the iPhone 9 for the sake of conversation, because that makes sense.

00:25:24   I wanted to go with iPhone X Lite, but sure.

00:25:28   Let's just keep it simple. So the iPhone 9 will look basically like the iPhone X. It

00:25:35   will feature an edge-to-edge screen, it will have face ID and a notch, but will feature

00:25:39   an LCD screen instead of OLED, an aluminium on the edges instead of stainless steel, it

00:25:44   keeps the glass back for wireless charging. So I'm going to ask you Federico, so this

00:25:49   is the lineup, right? Why are Apple expanding this line so fast, both up and down?

00:25:55   So I had this conversation with my girlfriend a while back, when the rumor first appeared.

00:26:03   Because I wanted to measure her reaction, so she's still using the iPhone 7. She didn't

00:26:07   want to upgrade to the iPhone 8, and she didn't want to get an iPhone X. And I told her, so

00:26:14   So Apple may be doing three iPhones this year, they're gonna do like an iPhone 10 but faster,

00:26:19   a bigger iPhone 10 Plus, and a new lower priced iPhone that looks like the 10 but it's not

00:26:26   the real 10.

00:26:28   And her first reaction was "Why are they doing the cheap iPhone again?

00:26:32   Nobody wants the cheaper iPhone."

00:26:35   So there's...

00:26:36   Now, I don't think she's totally right in her assessment of the situation, but I think

00:26:43   she's right in that there's a perception of, especially this year, of Apple has

00:26:48   done these two iPhones where the iPhone 8 and the 8 Plus, I count them as one, but

00:26:56   basically there's a perception, I think, that people see this old boring iPhone

00:27:01   that nobody wants and the cool new iPhone that is too expensive. Now, and I

00:27:10   think you know that the numbers they speak for themselves that you know Apple

00:27:14   still sold a lot of iPhones and some folks are saying they didn't sell enough

00:27:18   iPhone 10 units and others are saying the iPhone 8 sold surprisingly well I'm

00:27:23   not talking about the numbers here I'm talking about I think there's a general

00:27:26   perception there's a sense that nobody wants the cheap the cheaper not the

00:27:31   cheap the cheaper iPhone you know I'm gonna take it a step further than that

00:27:35   actually because I'm agreeing with the majority of what you're saying here but

00:27:39   there is a different point which you have to consider of how long it takes to make these

00:27:42   phones, right? So like, this plan will have been in place before the iPhone X came out, in theory,

00:27:49   because there's a long lead time of making these things. So it isn't, I don't believe that it is

00:27:55   about public perception. I believe it is Apple's assumption of future public perception that would

00:28:02   have made them make this decision, which is like the general agreed upon notion that phones with

00:28:08   new designs sell better, right? They are more appealing. So like, I don't think that this

00:28:14   is a reaction. I think a lot of people are painting this and I'm not saying you were,

00:28:18   but a lot of people paint this as like a reaction to the iPhone 10 in some way. I don't think

00:28:23   it's that at all. It is the assumption of smart product designers about what people

00:28:29   will think of their products.

00:28:30   Yeah, but in any case, the conclusion is the same, you know, so that that's, yeah, that's

00:28:36   That was my point, like the conclusion is the same, but I just want to say, I agree

00:28:40   with what you're saying, but I just think that like where it comes from is slightly

00:28:44   different.

00:28:45   Yeah, but you know, from a general public perspective, you know, folks, they do not

00:28:50   assume that, oh yes, Apple totally planned this.

00:28:53   And I agree with you.

00:28:54   I want to believe that they saw this in advance.

00:28:58   People will see this as a reaction and they will say, oh, so Apple also knows that they,

00:29:04   know the iPhone 8 didn't do well and so they're making every iPhone like the iPhone 10. Which

00:29:09   I think, you know, no matter the angle that you're taking to evaluate this, I think is

00:29:13   the right decision. That there's the idea of new. That, as Don Draper used to say, creates

00:29:19   a niche in people. It's a way to get into people's minds, to make something feel new.

00:29:26   So I agree, whereby I agree, I mean, I think it's a good idea to have three iPhones that

00:29:32   look new. And especially the 10 plus I think both you and I were going to totally get one because it

00:29:39   sounds incredible. A 6.5 inch screen iPhone. It's yeah imagine that. The iPad mini is 7.9 inches.

00:29:47   Like yeah that was gonna be like next level. I'm gonna feel like I'm holding a billboard.

00:29:55   it's just be incredible. As I've said before I'm not sure that a larger iPhone

00:30:01   10 really is for me I've gotten used to the smaller form factor but I definitely

00:30:06   want to check one out if this rumor does come true in the fall.

00:30:10   Yeah but I want to talk about this cheaper one because I have a few

00:30:14   questions I want to know how can Apple differentiate the line out like even the

00:30:19   basic stuff. How do you pick a name? I mean, let's assume iPhone 9. Okay. How do you separate

00:30:26   features, color options, storage capacities, or how do you sell the idea that this one

00:30:36   doesn't have OLED? Do you want to explain OLED versus LCD, or do you just gloss over

00:30:41   and pretend it's not a difference? So where do you draw the line? Is it the camera? Do

00:30:47   you get like a like a inferior camera on the 9 but you get the better one on the

00:30:52   10 and the best on the on the 10 plus do you do you do you make the 10 plus the

00:30:58   the best option in terms of battery or memory does Apple want to mention memory

00:31:04   I don't think so I just wonder what's the best way to explain people why this

00:31:10   this iPhone that looks like the X but it's not a X costs less without making it too technical.

00:31:18   Here is my theory on this, right? You draw as little lines as you possibly can and I think

00:31:25   there's two reasons for this. One, Apple should have learned from the 5c. They drew a lot of lines

00:31:32   with the 5c and it didn't sell very well, right? And I think Apple were expecting and hoping to

00:31:38   to keep that phone around for a while and they kind of didn't because there wasn't that

00:31:41   much difference between the C and the S, right? It was a small price difference and it was

00:31:47   very different visibly. So I expect that this phone will look as close as they can possibly

00:31:53   make it to look like the iPhone X. If there are colors, it will have all of the colors

00:31:58   and it will be pretty close. I mean, I would even say it will get like, and I have a reason

00:32:03   for this, I think it will get like the fastest chip available at the time so they'll all

00:32:06   getting new chips, they'll give the best camera they can possibly give it so it

00:32:09   will be an improvement on the 8, right? Maybe it gets the camera the iPhone X has,

00:32:13   for example, and the reason that I think they do all of this, they pack this

00:32:17   thing full of features because it stays around for three years and that they

00:32:24   keep this phone in the lineup as a cheaper version of the iPhone X when

00:32:29   they push the more expensive ones forward and then they slow the

00:32:33   development down on the cheaper version, it continues to become cheaper whilst

00:32:38   continuing to look fresh and it's full of like features that's gonna last a

00:32:42   couple of years. So they effectively have a second iPhone SE. That's my theory on this.

00:32:48   That could be, that makes a lot of sense. My only preoccupation is

00:32:55   that the not for the 10 plus but that the difference between the 9 and the 10

00:33:03   will be hard to tell unless there's some visual cues like... Well, stainless steel in an aluminium will be a big one, right?

00:33:14   Like, visually. Could be. Could be. Could be. Most people keep it in a case, so that

00:33:20   element is sort of more subdued, I guess. I just... I guess that in any instance

00:33:28   this is probably good news for Apple, because at that point you just want to have one of

00:33:35   two new phones, and you're not creating that sense of "oh, I'm spending money to buy a

00:33:41   phone that looks old, but everybody's gonna be happy anyway because the phone looks new".

00:33:47   So that's good news.

00:33:50   I would say the thing is, if you look at the 6, the 6s, the 7 and the 7s, that would argue,

00:33:56   that Apple don't really care about trying to make the phone look different

00:34:00   from other ones. Those phones, they didn't really do anything specific to

00:34:05   make them look visibly different than the ones that came before it, so they may

00:34:09   just apply that thinking to this. So like the the 9 and the 10, they look

00:34:14   basically the same. Do we think that they're making the... because when the

00:34:20   iPhone 8 came out, a lot of the other folks with websites and tech

00:34:27   podcasts, they made the argument that the iPhone 8 was a classic design that it

00:34:32   didn't need to change. So if they're changing it with the iPhone X, are they

00:34:36   doing it because they don't think that design is classic anymore, or is it

00:34:42   because it's the right thing to do to move the line forward, or is it because

00:34:46   of more profits. It has to go away eventually, right? Like you can't keep that design around

00:34:52   literally forever. Unless it's the SE. Well but the SE, I think the SE, that exists in

00:35:00   size not design. So they wouldn't be able to shrink that design down in theory, right?

00:35:08   Like I think the SE exists for size and price and I expect them to do something there with

00:35:13   that going into the future.

00:35:15   But like, it's just like, you know, I

00:35:17   agree that it is like a classic

00:35:18   design because it's been around for

00:35:20   so long and they took it to its Mac

00:35:21   to its end.

00:35:22   But like, you can't just keep it

00:35:24   around forever for the sake of it.

00:35:25   And you know what? They'll probably

00:35:27   keep it in the lineup for one more

00:35:28   year as an even cheaper, cheaper

00:35:30   phone. Right. Like you could still

00:35:32   buy it if you wanted to, you know,

00:35:34   like that you keep the old design

00:35:35   around for a while as they've always

00:35:37   done. They could still do that

00:35:38   because it will probably they'll

00:35:39   probably still be able to sell the

00:35:41   iPhone eight for cheaper than the

00:35:43   iPhone 9, right? So they may just keep it around for another year or two as an even

00:35:46   cheaper version of a phone to buy. But, you know, I think you've got to move on from it.

00:35:53   Personally, I think it's the right thing to do, to move on. If anything, just to continue

00:35:59   to proliferate Face ID as a thing, right? Face ID and wireless charging, get that into

00:36:05   every phone that you release now, like how they did with Touch ID, right? You put Touch

00:36:10   ID into every product. Apple should not be releasing a new iOS device in 2018 that doesn't

00:36:17   include Face ID. That's just what they should be doing now. If they're releasing a kind

00:36:23   of top class product, it should include Face ID. I would like to see Face ID on the SE,

00:36:29   but I don't know what... I don't even know if they know what they're going to do with

00:36:32   that. That seems like a really difficult problem to solve. If you're going to keep the SE around,

00:36:37   you do with it. But yeah, I'm very interested in this. I do have a question for you actually

00:36:42   about the Plus phone. In German's article he says that there are concerns that the larger

00:36:51   phone could cut into the iPad market. I rolled my eyes at this and I wonder what you think.

00:36:58   I don't think it's the case. It's not the same. Because even if the size is inching

00:37:05   closer to an iPad mini. There's still a big ergonomic difference between holding an iPhone

00:37:13   Plus and an iPad mini.

00:37:15   And you'd expect it's going to look like a big iPhone from a UI perspective, and applications

00:37:21   will treat it like a big iPhone. They're not going to treat it like a small iPad.

00:37:25   No, no they're not. And I don't think it's a... especially because the iPad market seems

00:37:32   to be pretty established in either the cheaper iPad, the 9.7, and the iPad Pro line, I don't

00:37:40   think people using the 9.7 or a 10.5 or a 12.9, they will accept an iPhone Plus as a

00:37:47   substitute for whatever they're doing on an iPad.

00:37:51   So I would also roll my eyes at that belief that with an iPhone Plus, now folks who are

00:37:58   using iPads will stop using and buying iPads to just use the iPhone. Because from an ergonomic

00:38:03   and UI perspective, it's a different device. Yes, it runs some of the same apps, but you

00:38:10   wouldn't want to work at a desk with an iPhone Plus and a Bluetooth keyboard. That would

00:38:14   be horrible. Like, iPad users will not accept that as a replacement. And not even casual

00:38:20   users. Like, if you're buying an iPad for your kid or because you want to read some

00:38:26   books at night, you're not gonna get an iPhone Plus instead.

00:38:31   So yes, it is going to be more useful for more people that can do more, but if you made

00:38:38   up your mind that you wanna use an iPad, especially for work, which is what apparently most people

00:38:43   do with the iPad these days, because we can talk about the numbers and the ASP and all

00:38:47   that stuff, I don't think you're going to get an iPhone Plus as a replacement.

00:38:53   And unless you are that niche of extremely casual iPad users who also use an iPad Mini

00:39:02   and very infrequently, then maybe you will just say, "You know what?

00:39:07   I'll just watch Netflix on my iPhone."

00:39:11   But I don't think that should concern the iPad division at Apple, that this phone is

00:39:17   going to cut into the iPad profits.

00:39:20   Do you have anything else you want to add on the iPhone lineup?

00:39:26   Just one note, and it's a question that I wonder if one of the differentiators here

00:39:36   between the 9 and the 10, if it's going to be the aluminum versus steel, and I wonder

00:39:42   is it limited to just the band around the device or is it also aluminum in the back?

00:39:48   And if it's also in the back, how can you enable wireless charging?

00:39:51   I think, I'm pretty sure I read in the report that he mentions it will keep glass.

00:39:56   It's a bit difficult because he's mentioning multiple different things, but yeah I think

00:40:00   that it will keep glass.

00:40:01   And that would be weird because that would be a regression from the 8.

00:40:05   If it went with an aluminium back instead of a glass back, you're regressing which doesn't

00:40:08   make any sense.

00:40:10   That would be a bad decision I think.

00:40:11   So yeah it'll probably just be the band and support wireless charging because they're

00:40:16   making this big move into air power in theory and wireless charging...

00:40:21   What's that sorry? Is that a product that exists? I don't know.

00:40:26   I really want... I was thinking today about air power that I actually want like a couple

00:40:31   of those. Are you still not in the wireless charging, you know, bandwagon mic?

00:40:39   No, there isn't a wireless charging product that exists today that entices me.

00:40:43   I'm not like a wireless charging denier, right? Because there is someone in my household that uses it every single day, right?

00:40:52   Like I don't think that it's bad. It just doesn't do anything for me, like personally.

00:40:59   I already have products that do what I want and there is no wireless charging product currently on the market that gives me anything different.

00:41:08   You are the cable equivalent of flat earther like a cabling.

00:41:15   Like a lightninger.

00:41:18   Power comes from cables only.

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00:43:14   So there's a rumor in Mac rumors.

00:43:17   This came from previously mentioned being cheek.

00:43:19   Well, we're in rumor season right now.

00:43:21   I think this is mostly because this is a real dead time for especially Apple news, right?

00:43:29   So rumors kind of take over.

00:43:31   But it is interesting.

00:43:32   You know, we have a lot of good discussion about it.

00:43:34   And this is a new one.

00:43:35   This is a brand new one.

00:43:36   According to Ming-Chi Kuo, Apple is planning to create their own over-the-ear headphones.

00:43:42   They will have what is referred to as an all-new design.

00:43:45   And my thought on that is, well, yes, of course, because it doesn't exist right now.

00:43:50   design is all new and will include the W1 and W2 chip.

00:43:55   Both of them?

00:43:55   Apparently. Oh, W1 or I should say. W1 or W2 chip, like whatever is around, right? Because

00:44:02   there are also rumors that there are new AirPods coming with a W2 chip. So I guess it depends

00:44:07   whatever the current is. Or maybe they put both of them in, who knows? I doubt that. I doubt that.

00:44:11   But you never know. Apparently Apple is currently lining up parts suppliers. Do you think that Apple

00:44:16   would make these. Do you think this is a thing? Do you read this rumor and you're like, yeah,

00:44:21   this makes sense?

00:44:23   It does from the perspective of Apple is making a HomePod for your ears, therefore a HeadPod

00:44:32   in the sense of their…

00:44:33   Please don't. Please don't come up with product names for them. Please don't do

00:44:36   that. Don't be that guy.

00:44:38   I know, I know that you, I know, you know I have so much fun pretending, making up Apple

00:44:45   product names. There's folks who do it on Twitter like seriously.

00:44:49   That's why I don't, just keep them in your own brain.

00:44:53   I do it sarcastically just for you because I know you love it.

00:44:57   I have no problem with like um...

00:45:00   MacBook adorable, that type of stuff.

00:45:03   Well I never come up with those. I proliferate them. I just don't like HeadPod.

00:45:08   real bad. Why don't you wanna head pod? I really, I can tell you I actually don't wanna

00:45:15   do that. Do you want phone pods? Is that why you want, like, phone pods? Or... I don't

00:45:21   even know what you would call over the ear headphones. Alright, so anyway, the real point

00:45:26   is that I could see a space... Oh god, they might actually call them head pod. Oh god.

00:45:35   So my point is that there's a space, I think, between, or rather like a niche of people

00:45:47   like me who would like something that are not Beats headphones.

00:45:53   Because I find the, it's not even the Beats sound, which I'm not super a fan of, but I

00:45:59   also don't think it's the end of the world.

00:46:02   Like the...

00:46:03   changed your opinion on that? You used to like the sound of beats, right? I will say

00:46:06   for the record, to help you, I liked, I had a pair of beats and I liked the way they sounded.

00:46:11   I liked them. I don't love them. I think they work best for some types of music. The sound

00:46:19   that I love is something more similar to the B&O H6 2nd gen. You know, it tends to be more,

00:46:28   You know, I don't want to talk about sound, but I think the Beats works best for hip-hop

00:46:32   and, you know, EDM, that type of stuff.

00:46:37   But my main problem with the Beats, so it's not the sound, and I know that a lot of people

00:46:40   think Beats are like the Antichrist or something.

00:46:43   No, I think they're totally fine, sound-wise.

00:46:46   My main problem is that even the Beats Studio, which I'm wearing right now, I use them to

00:46:51   do podcasts.

00:46:54   I cannot wear them for multiple hours because they give me a headache.

00:46:59   Even if in theory they are over-ear headphones, they still, they're not big enough for me.

00:47:08   Whatever it is, they just give me a headache.

00:47:10   They're not as bad as the Solo, which are on-ear headphones.

00:47:14   Those give me a headache in like 20 minutes.

00:47:18   And I think there's a way for Apple to make a product that sounds even better than the

00:47:25   Beats headphones, that is much more comfortable, and that approaches the high end, the same

00:47:33   way that the HomePod approaches the high end of home speakers, and that is easy to use,

00:47:39   has insane battery life, is easy to configure like AirPods, and has some kind of Siri integration,

00:47:47   and maybe active noise cancelling. I could see... because I know that I want this type

00:47:54   of product when I sit down to just listen to music, which is something that I think

00:48:02   not everybody does, just sitting down to listen to music, because most of us, we treat music

00:48:07   as background, fancy background noise. That's what music for many people is, me included,

00:48:14   because most of the time I just leave music in the background.

00:48:16   But there's also times when, like a couple of hours at night, where I just, I want to

00:48:21   go through my music library, and I want to listen to music without doing anything else.

00:48:25   I want to read the lyrics, I want to just listen to music.

00:48:28   And those types of headphones would be great.

00:48:30   Now, is that a niche big enough to justify making a product?

00:48:35   Maybe because, you know, Apple makes...

00:48:38   I bet you it's bigger than HomePod.

00:48:40   bigger than a HomePod and there's I don't think there would be any confusion

00:48:45   as to what is you know under Beats and what is made by Apple you know I don't

00:48:52   see because there's folks saying people don't know there's folks saying oh but

00:48:56   what what there's a problem because there's the Beats studio and then the

00:49:00   Apple headphones no because Apple makes AirPods and they also sell the Beats

00:49:04   Sport and the Beats X it's not a problem. Beats is a brand that people know I

00:49:09   I don't think that everybody that knows the Beats brand knows that Apple own Beats, and

00:49:14   even if they do, I don't think anybody cares. I don't think that that is too much of a problem,

00:49:20   like it's not an issue for them. I have a thought about noise cancelling. This feels

00:49:25   like something that Apple will turn around and be like, we've solved noise cancelling,

00:49:31   right? And they'll have like a way that they do it, which is different. Like I feel like

00:49:36   if any machine learning that's what you know what I mean like something yeah

00:49:40   right like there is just a thing that they will be able to say like we have

00:49:44   done if I mean I would say like if they're gonna be able to turn around and

00:49:47   say that they're doing anything new I mean it might just be that they just it's

00:49:51   everything we currently know and they make nice headphones but like if they

00:49:54   have some kind of innovative feature I can imagine it being some new way of

00:49:58   doing noise cancelling that nobody else thought of and the only reason I want

00:50:01   this the only reason I think of this is because noise cancelling currently

00:50:05   However, it is I don't know why but it makes me feel nauseous

00:50:07   And I just hope that I find some way of doing it where it wouldn't but honestly, I can't believe that that's the case

00:50:12   Same for me noise cancellation is like someone tickling the inside of my brain

00:50:18   But the part of my brain that is directly connected to vomiting it's it's really awful. I

00:50:24   Have tried at least four different versions of ANC by Sennheiser

00:50:30   by Beats, by Pioneer, and by someone else I don't remember.

00:50:35   And it works. I actually think the noise cancelling in the Pioneer

00:50:42   Lightning earbuds is my favorite one, but it still does some weird stuff to your brain.

00:50:51   You know, that sort of hiss that you have constantly in your ears.

00:50:56   I can't stand that.

00:50:58   It's unsettling for a lot of people and I understand why there could be an opportunity

00:51:04   for Apple to say we've figured out a way to make this better because we have, I don't

00:51:08   know, tons of data about people and we have a lot of resources to get this right.

00:51:13   I could see that.

00:51:14   I could see that.

00:51:16   There's a question that I wanted to ask you.

00:51:19   So let's assume that this product is real and Apple is entering this high-end audio

00:51:24   space with the home speaker and with the over-ear headphones.

00:51:31   Now why did Apple buy Beats?

00:51:36   It's a question that has been going in my brain for a while now.

00:51:42   And I was looking at this story again in hindsight, because it's been like three or four years

00:51:50   now.

00:51:51   So Apple has so far improved parts of the Beats product line with stuff like the W-series

00:51:59   chips, longer battery life and better reliability.

00:52:05   They have not dramatically changed the designs of Beats stuff, which arguably is the entire

00:52:12   point because people know Beats.

00:52:13   I feel like that would be a bad idea, right?

00:52:15   They would have come in and changed the design, because Beats are popular because of the design.

00:52:20   They haven't also dramatically improved the sound quality.

00:52:25   I would say that probably the Studio 3, they sound slightly better than the Studio 2.

00:52:32   Beats Music was entirely replaced, arguably with an inferior product with Apple Music.

00:52:39   Beats Music was doing things way ahead of Spotify four years ago.

00:52:45   Some stuff that nobody else is doing.

00:52:47   else is doing it today, four years later. And now Apple is making apparently their own

00:52:53   audio accessories with the HomePod, AirPods, and maybe these headphones. So was this part

00:53:00   of the plan when buying Beats or do you think that maybe Apple had a different vision that

00:53:06   didn't exactly work out and now they're just trying to make the best of this situation?

00:53:12   Well my thought would be that they bought Beats so they could make Apple Music and AirPods

00:53:18   and these over the ear headphones.

00:53:20   My thought would be that they bought the people and the technology.

00:53:26   Beats may have done all of this on their own in a parallel universe.

00:53:32   They may have made AirPods, right?

00:53:35   These tiny little in-ear Bluetooth completely untethered things.

00:53:41   We don't know what they had in their labs, right?

00:53:45   My feeling would be that they bought Beats so they could make a new headphone line of

00:53:51   their own, so they could also have people and talent and developers and curators to

00:53:58   make Apple Music, and also own the most popular headphone brand in the world, just as a side

00:54:04   note.

00:54:06   That's how I would look at it.

00:54:08   I know that there are people that understand how to do wireless technology inside of Apple,

00:54:15   but I would really expect that they got some help from the company that they bought that

00:54:22   makes headphones.

00:54:23   It would be kind of wild if they didn't.

00:54:26   You think they bought them because of the people, the technology and the prestige of

00:54:31   owning Beats?

00:54:32   Yeah, and I think it is a mix of all of it, which is why they've been very particular

00:54:37   about what they changed and what they didn't.

00:54:41   Beats Music was not going to win against Spotify.

00:54:45   That was not going to happen for them, I don't think.

00:54:49   So they changed that.

00:54:50   They bought that and changed that.

00:54:52   Beats headphones, you'd be dumb to call them Apple headphones because the same people that

00:54:57   buy Beats headphones probably wouldn't buy the Apple ones because it's a completely different

00:55:01   brand.

00:55:02   It has a different message.

00:55:05   You can see it.

00:55:06   Its branding and advertising has not changed.

00:55:12   Their brand message is basically the same as it was before.

00:55:16   And they have ads that you see every now and then.

00:55:18   People will tweet about an ad and be like, "Oh, Apple made this!"

00:55:21   Right?

00:55:22   It's like, "No, but no though."

00:55:24   It still beats, right?

00:55:26   Because people were making jokes about that Beats pill, right?

00:55:29   And it had that rubber dude you could put it in.

00:55:32   Yes.

00:55:33   Remember?

00:55:34   But that's their brand.

00:55:35   Like, you'd be crazy to buy a company like Beats and then change the brand.

00:55:41   It is a branding company that sells headphones.

00:55:44   It also kind of explains why they're still using mini USB instead of lightning, because

00:55:51   there's, you know, Android users, they don't have lightning cables.

00:55:54   Yeah, it's bigger than that.

00:55:56   It would be almost like a thumb in the eye to a big part of your user base, right?

00:56:03   are people that don't want that. They're not going to use that. Really, they should move

00:56:07   to USB-C, which they probably will. And then you can hit everyone, because everyone has

00:56:12   those now in theory. So I think that you buy a company like Beats to drain it for the talent

00:56:18   that you need, and then you keep it going as an important thing, and you do cross-pollination.

00:56:23   So you would never know that the Beats X and the Solo 3 had anything to do with Apple.

00:56:31   yet they carry a chip in them that Apple in theory designed. But it doesn't say on there

00:56:37   anywhere that it's like the Apple chip. It might say like, "Oh, works great with the

00:56:42   iPhone because of this." But they don't start throwing huge iPhone images and logos all

00:56:48   over it. They kept it pretty chill because they're smart enough to understand that that

00:56:54   brand is useful on its own. But then you start making Apple branded stuff because you can

00:57:00   and then suck more oxygen out of another market.

00:57:04   - Do you think, so let's assume

00:57:06   that Apple is making these headphones.

00:57:07   And the reasoning is Apple should,

00:57:11   maybe like a classic Tim Cook strategy of,

00:57:14   Apple should make a first party version

00:57:17   of all the things where our customers are spending money.

00:57:20   So let's assume that Apple wants to move

00:57:24   to almost like a Xiaomi-like ecosystem

00:57:28   of we're just gonna make everything.

00:57:30   Should Apple make sensors for your home?

00:57:33   Should Apple make heart rate chest straps?

00:57:37   Should they make light bulbs?

00:57:39   Because if we follow this idea of people are buying

00:57:43   headphones, well, we'll make our own headphones,

00:57:45   like Bender from Futurama type of scenario.

00:57:50   Do you think they should make their own stuff

00:57:53   from every single area of the most important areas,

00:57:58   maybe, of the iPhone ecosystem.

00:58:00   Because if we follow that idea,

00:58:03   then I could see like an Apple scale,

00:58:06   an Apple light bulb, an Apple, you know,

00:58:09   humidifier, weather sensor, like an Apple everything.

00:58:13   So I wonder where does Apple draw the line in terms of...

00:58:17   - It's difficult, right?

00:58:19   'Cause like my immediate gut reaction answer to that

00:58:23   "Oh well they just make things within the area that they play in" but that area is growing, right?

00:58:30   So like the area that Apple always make things in areas that they play in but yet that now includes

00:58:36   headphones and speakers in the home and things that you put on your body, right? So like that

00:58:43   just keeps growing. I think that like there are logical ways to move but if I'm Tim Cook I will

00:58:52   I will make as much as I possibly can because I don't have an iPhone in me, right?

00:58:58   Like I don't have the new revolutionary thing.

00:59:02   So considering they probably don't have that, right?

00:59:04   Like I'm just going to naturally assume that in current development at Apple, there is

00:59:09   not the next revolution and this is nothing against anybody that works there.

00:59:13   But like, this is, they don't know what the next revolution is.

00:59:17   Well, I was going to say this should be once in a lifetime for people.

00:59:21   I mean, it was for Steve Jobs like two or three times in a lifetime, but like the iPhone

00:59:26   should be a once in a lifetime type thing.

00:59:30   And so there's no, there shouldn't be an expectation that they have in a product lab, the thing

00:59:35   that's going to dethrone the iPhone, right?

00:59:38   Because that's not how this stuff works.

00:59:41   So if I'm Tim Cook, I'm like, well, what we have to do is just make sure that nobody ever

00:59:48   leaves us.

00:59:49   Yeah.

00:59:50   just keep making as much as we can. It's what Mark Zuckerberg is doing. It's almost like

00:59:55   an insurance for your company to sort of saturate your ecosystem. All of these big tech companies

01:00:01   are doing this, right? Like Amazon just bought the Ring doorbell. Because they are doing

01:00:08   everything they can, like Google is, like Facebook is, like Apple is, to extend into

01:00:13   your life a point that you cannot let go. That's all it is. They just want to make sure

01:00:20   that they lock in everyone that they have and then make it even more appealing for people

01:00:24   to join. That's what all these tech companies are doing now. And I mean, that's what you

01:00:29   do, right? Like to a infinitesimally small degree, me and you do that with our businesses.

01:00:37   Like you expand within the realm that you can and you keep growing it in a way that

01:00:41   people want to keep coming to you to consume whatever they're consuming.

01:00:45   Right. Yes.

01:00:46   We just launched a subnet, which is a daily tech news briefing, because that is a new

01:00:51   area of podcasting that we think we could do pretty well.

01:00:55   And we want to make sure that people consume relay FM content in their lives.

01:00:58   So we do that.

01:01:00   It's like you and John thought that you had some interesting stories to tell and create

01:01:04   a new podcast for people so they could consume Mac Stories content in a new way.

01:01:08   And you take off a piece of that audience.

01:01:10   So you created App Stories.

01:01:11   This is what businesses do to survive, but Apple is doing it at a scale which is so huge

01:01:20   it is unforeseen previously.

01:01:24   So yeah, if I'm Tim Cook, I'm going to keep making weird and wonderful technology things

01:01:29   that people can bring into their lives so that they'll never leave me.

01:01:32   Yeah, it's an interesting contrast between, you know, a few years ago Apple sort of, when

01:01:41   they were still the underdog in a way. All these experiments, they would have been like

01:01:46   the weird and fun experiments of a company trying to survive. And now that they're this

01:01:54   huge corporation, the weird experiments are still an attempt to survive, maybe, but I

01:02:02   see them, and I think people see them in a different light of, "Oh, now Apple is going

01:02:07   after all these other smaller companies because they want to eat their lunch and they want

01:02:11   to make sure that people spend more Apple money.

01:02:16   And I mean, you could see this concept in multiple areas.

01:02:19   Like even Apple Pay with the Apple Wallet and the Apple Pay Cash Card.

01:02:25   It's a way to make sure that you never leave.

01:02:28   Some people think it's creepy.

01:02:31   And I think when you think about it, it is not creepy but unsettling in a sense that

01:02:37   there's this corporation that owns you.

01:02:40   Like they control your home automation framework and your health records and your money to

01:02:48   an extent.

01:02:49   I don't think it's...

01:02:52   It is disconcerting that you know that somewhere inside of Apple there are meetings every day

01:02:57   and it's like written on the wall is a phrase like lock-in.

01:03:01   Yes.

01:03:02   You know that I would expect they probably have their own phrase for this so it doesn't

01:03:06   sound so whatever, but the sentiment is still there, right?

01:03:10   I mean that's what the services division is, right?

01:03:13   Like continuing to find ways to increase the hold that you have on the customer.

01:03:19   And the strangest thing to admit for me is that I am not put off by that idea of, you

01:03:32   know, as long as this stuff works better for me, I don't care.

01:03:37   And this is scary.

01:03:38   - It's the trade-off.

01:03:39   It's the trade-off you make.

01:03:40   - But it's kind of scary to admit that like I'm fine with letting a corporation control

01:03:46   these aspects of my life and to the point where I kind of feel bad and I'm like no I

01:03:51   should be you know I should be concerned I should be worried but then I think about it

01:03:57   like no I'm not and I'm fine with it because I don't you know better Apple than than someone

01:04:04   else but I also like when I think about it I also know that it is concerning so I you

01:04:11   know and all this discussion coming we were just talking about headphones but I was trying

01:04:14   to kind of consider the bigger idea of Apple making more different type of things and how

01:04:20   it relates to like you're into this huge ecosystem and there's a single corporation and a single

01:04:26   CEO that you know they call the shots here and how does that make me feel and I feel

01:04:32   both happy because it works and concerned when I think about it because it's kind of

01:04:37   creepy not in the sense that I think Apple is creepy but in the sense of there's an entity

01:04:42   that controls this stuff and there's nothing I can do about it. And instead I'm here, I'm

01:04:46   just like a stupid guy here liking all of this. You know, does it make sense? Like this

01:04:53   contrast of feelings about this sort of scenario?

01:04:57   Yeah, I just decided not to worry about it. And the reason is, I mean, I can appreciate

01:05:02   it, but I don't worry about it because I weigh up my benefit. And I figure that I'm happy

01:05:08   to let the companies have this stuff, let them have information about me, let them become

01:05:14   every device I own in my life because I'm happy to trade it off. And I know that there

01:05:19   are people that aren't and like more power to you, right? Like that's your decision and

01:05:23   like you can live your life in the way that you want to live it. I just choose to go for

01:05:28   the easiest possible route, especially when it comes to my technology because I have so

01:05:33   many other things to do. And if I can get something that works in a way that I'm happy

01:05:38   with and does all the things that I want, I'm willing to make trade-offs. That's what

01:05:43   all of this stuff is.

01:05:44   That's exactly my approach. I'm just aware of what I'm trading off and I'm fine with

01:05:51   it as long as it works better.

01:05:54   As long as you're aware and you're making the decision, you're the one with the real

01:05:58   power Federico. You just keep telling yourself that.

01:06:01   That's what I'm telling myself.

01:06:02   As long as you're the one making the decision, you're in control. Nobody else. That decision

01:06:06   you made completely free of any influence from any third party in any way. That's your decision,

01:06:12   buddy. Yeah, as long as you, you know, through the looking glass, essentially. Yeah.

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01:07:34   and Relay FM. So I want to tell I want to talk to you about fingerprint readers. Okay. Do you

01:07:40   remember those? Uh from uh from a few years ago I guess. Yeah yeah fingerprint readers in phones. So

01:07:47   uh a week or two ago MKBHD had a video where he was showing off the Vivo X20+UD which is a phone

01:07:57   that includes that you could you can it's I believe it is available like it is a phone that

01:08:01   you can buy that includes a fingerprint reader in the screen. It's made by a company called Synaptics.

01:08:10   It is what's known as an optical sensor. It only works on OLED displays for technical reasons that

01:08:16   I don't fully understand and it can only scan your fingerprint at specific moments because what it

01:08:24   it needs to do is a light needs to be shone onto your finger from inside the display which you can

01:08:30   see the screen lights up you can make a little animation but what it's doing is illuminating the

01:08:34   screen at that point so then it can read your fingerprint so this means you have to wait for

01:08:40   the phone to be ready which is kind of like face id right like you raise the phone to wake it or tap

01:08:45   the screen and then it looks at you right so it's similar in that you'd have to like tap the screen

01:08:49   or unlock it or raise the phone up so it's ready to shine the light onto the sensor area

01:08:55   and monitor your fingerprint.

01:08:57   Now in MKBHD's tests he concluded that it is faster than Face ID but slower than Touch

01:09:05   ID.

01:09:06   So it sits somewhere in the middle and that is because whilst it is quicker at doing the

01:09:10   authentication than Face ID is but you still have to do something to let the phone know

01:09:16   that you're ready.

01:09:19   And Synaptics have said that in theory, the sensor is unlimited in size, so you can make

01:09:25   it as big or as small as you want.

01:09:27   And they've just done this.

01:09:28   So Mobile World Congress is this week, or just this past week, and they have a concept

01:09:34   phone called the Vivo Apex.

01:09:38   And what this has done, it has taken the sensor from the size of your fingertip, which it

01:09:45   was in the in the that phone that you can get now the X20 and they've extended it to become

01:09:51   basically the bottom quarter of the entire display of the phone so you can effectively just put your

01:09:58   finger or your thumb anywhere on that area of the screen and it will unlock it can scan it and

01:10:04   unlock just as a side note this phone also includes what i think is a kind of cool pop-out selfie

01:10:10   camera so the selfie camera pops out at the top of the phone and they do this so

01:10:15   they can keep super tiny bezels without needing a cut out which is kind of cute

01:10:21   and I kind of I think I kind of love it I don't think I would want it on an iPhone

01:10:25   really does pop out but like I kind of think it's really fun like there's

01:10:30   something kind of fun about it it just pops out when you need it and then you

01:10:33   don't have to worry about the NSA looking at you all the time

01:10:37   Marques predicts that this may become a widespread feature in phones by 2019

01:10:43   because it's kind of... there's still some quirks about it, right?

01:10:47   Like a company like Samsung would probably only want to do it when they

01:10:50   could scan a larger area, right? So there's an additional benefit and that

01:10:55   technology, whilst available now, is taking time to roll out. And I believe

01:11:00   from what I can piece together on this, I think Synaptics are making these phones

01:11:05   So people will buy their fingerprint chips

01:11:09   Right, like they are a company that has created this technology

01:11:14   That can do the fingerprint scanning

01:11:17   So they are making phones in small quantities and also phones that you can that they're showing in concepts

01:11:25   So people will will buy that so by the way

01:11:30   I don't know if I mentioned but the vivo apex concept phone that was a video done by the verge

01:11:35   who were at Mobile World Congress. So this is technology that is now beginning to exist, right?

01:11:42   Like it was something that we were talking about a bunch when thinking about what the

01:11:46   a bezel-less iPhone would look like. So having thought about this, having looked at this,

01:11:52   would you want this? Would you give up Face ID for this kind of fingerprint reader?

01:11:59   No. Why? I was reminded of this today, or rather yesterday. It's not a real bed in Rome

01:12:09   and I was wearing gloves and I realized when I unlocked my phone that it was not a problem.

01:12:18   Like it was last year when I went on to the Alps for the holidays and it was constantly a problem.

01:12:26   Yes, I could have bought iPhone compatible gloves, but I didn't want to worry about it.

01:12:34   And instead with Face ID it was not a problem. And I realized, oh yeah, it's nice that this is no

01:12:41   longer a concern. Or anytime I take a shower and then I can use my iPhone and I can unlock without

01:12:49   having to wipe my hand real, real good because it's, you know, water interferes with Touch ID,

01:12:57   you know, all that stuff. I like Face ID. Yes, it's not perfect, but the times that it's not

01:13:04   perfect are less important than the daily problems and limitations of Touch ID. So I would not want

01:13:13   to go back. I like Face ID more than Touch ID. What about in addition? I don't see the point of

01:13:21   having in addition to Face ID. I think Apple should make one single biometric

01:13:28   authentication system that works great, not a couple that work okay. I think once I would

01:13:35   I would rather have Apple invest all of their time and money on making Face ID 2.0 better

01:13:42   than saying "Oh, we're gonna stay on Face ID first gen for a while and then also roll back Touch ID inside the screen."

01:13:50   I could see the accessibility arguments for saying "Well, Touch ID worked better for some types of users

01:13:58   because of some physical limitations that are involved with Face ID."

01:14:03   But for the majority of people, I think either there's a way to make Face ID work for everybody,

01:14:10   or it's just not worth it to bring back Touch ID and add complexity, even just for developers,

01:14:18   to account for two different systems or two different interfaces.

01:14:22   I think we're past the Touch ID era, and we're going to see Face ID everywhere.

01:14:31   It would be strange, I think, to see Apple saying "Oh, we're bringing it back and now

01:14:36   you need to choose."

01:14:38   I don't think it's happening.

01:14:39   I agree that I don't think that they would ever do it.

01:14:44   My only point would be I really hate having to enter my passcode and I definitely have

01:14:48   to still enter my passcode more than I ever entered my passcode with Touch ID.

01:14:52   Really?

01:14:53   Yeah, it still fails on me and it fails on me in situations where I can't work it out,

01:14:59   right?

01:15:00   All I really want is just some kind of secret way that I can tap something on the screen

01:15:05   to let it scan my face again.

01:15:09   Tell the phone to scan it again.

01:15:11   It failed once.

01:15:12   Let's do this over.

01:15:14   That's what I want, really.

01:15:16   Even if you just tap the padlock and it will do another scan.

01:15:19   Because sometimes I know there's a reason that it wouldn't work, so sometimes it doesn't

01:15:23   work and I don't know why it is.

01:15:25   and I feel like I'm having to lock and turn off the screen, re-awake the screen.

01:15:32   Because I'm still, and one of the reasons for this is I'm still doing the thing where it shows me my notifications

01:15:38   after it does the Face ID thing. Right? So sometimes I just want to read my notification on my phone or whatever

01:15:45   and it won't unlock and I don't know why. So I would like it for that.

01:15:51   But outside of that, I don't want touch ID or fingerprint sensors instead of the face

01:15:59   sensor because I do really like all of the benefits that it has, as you mentioned, that

01:16:04   you don't need to be, if you're out in the snow and you've got your gloves on, you don't

01:16:08   need to scan your fingerprint.

01:16:09   And I like that when I hold my phone, I just look at my phone and it unlocks.

01:16:13   I like that sort of stuff.

01:16:14   When it works, it is like a million times better, but it doesn't work 100% consistently,

01:16:23   and it doesn't work as consistently as fingerprint scanning did.

01:16:28   And I hope and believe that Apple will just make it better and better over time, but let's

01:16:33   just imagine, hypothetically, if this was as good as it could ever get, then I would

01:16:38   also kind of like a fingerprint sensor as well, as like a secondary, because I don't

01:16:42   have to enter in a passcode anymore.

01:16:44   I hate entering the passcode. I feel like a Luddite when I'm entering the passcode because

01:16:48   I feel like I've gone back so far, right, at that point, you know? Because this was

01:16:53   never a thing that you had to do with Touch ID. And one of the reasons, and one of the

01:16:56   reasons I think it sticks out to me more, is if Touch ID failed, you had a way to just

01:17:01   make it do it again. And I think that it makes the failures stand out more to me because

01:17:07   if it fails, I can't make it do it again.

01:17:12   I'm on the record saying that I don't like the lock screen UI. I think it should be done better.

01:17:20   I think there should be, just the design itself, it should be different and it should allow you to more easily say repeat this process, repeat this step.

01:17:32   So, yeah, I'm with you on this. I think part of the problem could be fixed by a redesign

01:17:38   of the lock screen and the authentication dialogue that comes up. But the thing where

01:17:45   you get more, you know, failed scan sessions, that's interesting, that it's not getting

01:17:54   better. Because the whole system was built on the assumption that because of machine

01:18:01   I think it might be getting better. I don't think it's getting worse. I think it might be getting better

01:18:06   But it is still failing on me right like it still fails and it fails more than I want it to fail. Yeah, right

01:18:14   But like I will say I do notice that like there are times recently where it is unlocking where my hand is

01:18:21   clearly obscuring part of my face and I'm like

01:18:24   Good work, right?

01:18:26   Like, I can see you're getting better now because you're only seeing like 75% of my

01:18:31   face and you know it's me. So like, I know it's getting better, but then there are times

01:18:35   where it doesn't work and I'm like, I can't work out what I'm supposed to give you.

01:18:39   Maybe now the iPhone assumes that the hand is part of your face.

01:18:43   Oh no! That's, I've trained it badly.

01:18:48   Now you've created another problem.

01:18:52   Now I have to like just draw some fingers on my face and that's how I live. But yeah,

01:18:56   fingerprint scanners these are going to show up in a bunch of android phones i think because i mean

01:19:02   like if i'm if i am an android phone maker like i would hang on to fingerprint scanning for a while

01:19:07   because it's a differentiator for people that want that they don't they can't buy an iphone anymore

01:19:13   like if you do if you are like i was gonna say like biometrically imposed uh to using uh it's

01:19:21   That's a terrible, terrible pun and you shouldn't be allowed to do anything anymore.

01:19:24   Like if you don't want to use a face ID thing, like if you don't want to use that, Apple

01:19:34   can't give you that product if you want a new phone.

01:19:37   I could see the argument for companies that their security policies, they do not allow

01:19:44   face scanning for some reason.

01:19:47   Because it's new, right? And I feel that's perfectly fair, because it's more new, and

01:19:51   fingerprint scanning has been around for a very, very long time.

01:19:55   That's the only possible argument that I can think about of businesses that require fingerprints,

01:20:02   and therefore are not adopting iPhones or future iPads because they only ship with FaceID.

01:20:10   But I don't know, that seems like a policy that could be changed, rather than forcing

01:20:15   Apple to roll back Touch ID. All right, are we done for today? I think so. I think we

01:20:21   did a good job. I'm very proud of us. If you want to find our show notes, go to relay.fm/connect/182.

01:20:27   Oh, by the way, thank you if you bought a t-shirt. We're very happy with the sales of

01:20:33   the Tiny Head T and we can put the rest Tiny Heads forever now. Thank you if you bought

01:20:38   a t-shirt. They'll be shipping out to you pretty soon, I think. Very excited to get

01:20:42   If you want to find Federico online he is @vitiici on Twitter and you can find his

01:20:48   work at MacStories.net.

01:20:49   I am @imike.

01:20:53   You can find this show and many other shows that I do and many other wonderful people

01:20:57   do at Relay.fm/shows.

01:21:00   If you want to wish Steven Hackett back to the show he is @ismh on Twitter.

01:21:06   Maybe you can be the reason that he will be let out of his banishment jail to return to

01:21:11   us next time.