Connected

00:00:00 ◼   ► I have a special intro today prepared for you.

00:00:02 ◼   ► If you're ready.

00:00:03 ◼   ► 'Cause the day is Valentine's Day.

00:00:05 ◼   ► Whether or not you celebrate it or not,

00:00:06 ◼   ► or think it's a scam, which it totally is.

00:00:08 ◼   ► But I've prepared a little something to open the show.

00:00:10 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:00:11 ◼   ► - Myke, your beard flows from the sky to the ground,

00:00:16 ◼   ► wrapping your face, keeping you warm as your ink pens abound.

00:00:21 ◼   ► Federico, with your iPads and coffee,

00:00:25 ◼   ► supporting bakeries all over Rome.

00:00:28 ◼   ► I hear your dogs barking.

00:00:30 ◼   ► I think Sylvia is home.

00:00:31 ◼   ► Roses are indeed red.

00:00:34 ◼   ► Violets are somehow blue.

00:00:37 ◼   ► I'm really sorry.

00:00:38 ◼   ► This is the intro and you probably are too.

00:00:41 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

00:00:43 ◼   ► - You're a genius.

00:00:51 ◼   ► You're a genius.

00:00:52 ◼   ► - That is beautiful.

00:00:53 ◼   ► I feel like I wanna marry you.

00:00:54 ◼   ► Can you get a divorce and marry me instead?

00:00:57 ◼   ► Can you write my wedding vows? You need to do a bit of them in Romanian, so just as long

00:01:03 ◼   ► as you're good with that part.

00:01:04 ◼   ► It's fine. Everybody does vows on Google Translate. It's romantic anyway.

00:01:09 ◼   ► Stephen, I want to give you a tiny story and a little cautionary tale. So for about 100

00:01:18 ◼   ► episodes of The Pan Addict, every single episode I used to come up with a special name for

00:01:23 ◼   ► That became very very difficult over time. You are setting yourself up for something here.

00:01:29 ◼   ► I think you should continue to explore your creativity week after week, but be careful and make sure you're well prepared.

00:01:36 ◼   ► At some point I'll be back to the

00:01:39 ◼   ► "From Real AFM" this connected.

00:01:42 ◼   ► But it ain't today.

00:01:43 ◼   ► It's not today, but we do have a lot of stuff to talk about. We should thank the sponsors who made this episode possible

00:01:50 ◼   ► SaneBox, Anchor, and Zola. We have some follow-up and we are going to start in

00:01:56 ◼   ► the land of the tiny heads. This is not as new as we thought it was. Someone on

00:02:08 ◼   ► Twitter, and I'm sorry I looked for the tweet this morning couldn't find it so

00:02:12 ◼   ► please set my apologies, the New York Times has an illustration on their

00:02:16 ◼   ► website from 2015 that not only has a tiny head, it's a tiny head mime, I think.

00:02:23 ◼   ► Mime police officer. What's funny to me is last night me and Nadina are in bed and we're

00:02:30 ◼   ► just like reading on our phones or our iPads or whatever and she pokes me and she shows

00:02:34 ◼   ► me this image. She's like, "Ha, see?" So I don't know where this came out but this was

00:02:38 ◼   ► on the front page of Reddit yesterday so that's how it was been found and sent to us including

00:02:43 ◼   ► by my fiancé.

00:02:46 ◼   ► on our next stop is a link at the Economist talking about banned drugs in sports and the

00:02:55 ◼   ► illustration has some people with tiny heads including one guy right in the middle with

00:03:00 ◼   ► massive arms lifting some weights. So I don't know if having a tiny head leads you to drug

00:03:06 ◼   ► use or if drugs are the cause of the tiny head syndrome. It's very confusing to me which

00:03:13 ◼   ► comes first but it's troubling at least. The name now THS, tiny head syndrome, is that

00:03:19 ◼   ► a thing? I think so. Sure. Maybe. We then move on to a blog post by something called

00:03:27 ◼   ► Typeform. I'm not real familiar with Typeform but they have... At the very bottom of this

00:03:33 ◼   ► page is one of the most horrific tiny head images I've ever seen. Oh my goodness, tiny

00:03:39 ◼   ► than huge hands. Huge hands. With very troubling fingernails. That's really the most upsetting

00:03:47 ◼   ► part of this illustration. So that's also in the show notes. So thanks to Lexus for

00:03:51 ◼   ► sending that horrific image in. Yeah, that's burned in my mind forever. Up next we have

00:03:57 ◼   ► Snapchat, which used to be a thing. I don't know, they had good quarterly results, maybe

00:04:02 ◼   ► they're a thing again. Apparently they have a filter that looks very much like a photo

00:04:06 ◼   ► booth filter where you shrink your head. So I'm not sure this counts because it's not

00:04:10 ◼   ► an illustration. I think Chad is a little bit of a tiny head wannabe maybe, but I'll

00:04:15 ◼   ► give it to him.

00:04:18 ◼   ► This is a half point. Normally we would say this is a half point.

00:04:21 ◼   ► Yeah, it's a half point.

00:04:22 ◼   ► Yeah, it's a half point for Chad.

00:04:24 ◼   ► Yeah, he lost the round robin. But I have some news. We've, you know, it started a couple

00:04:31 ◼   ► weeks ago. Last week, I believe the episode title was Tiny Head Pandemic. It's everywhere.

00:04:38 ◼   ► And the three of us have come down with THS. We have an amazing illustration that's in

00:04:45 ◼   ► the show notes. It's the chapter art for this chapter if you're listening to it, and a podcast

00:04:49 ◼   ► client that supports that sort of thing. And it's on a t-shirt over at Cotton Bureau, which

00:04:54 ◼   ► you should go check out.

00:04:55 ◼   ► We decided if you can't beat them, join them.

00:04:59 ◼   ► So we have tiny heads now too.

00:05:03 ◼   ► Maybe it's not, you know, maybe I think my tweet was maybe it's a revolution and we're

00:05:07 ◼   ► joining in.

00:05:08 ◼   ► So these shirts are up on Cotton Bureau for the next couple weeks.

00:05:14 ◼   ► The artwork is just amazing.

00:05:16 ◼   ► They're done by Chris Rowland who did your awesome PodCon poster, right?

00:05:21 ◼   ► Yep.

00:05:22 ◼   ► incredible illustrator whose work I enjoy very much and when we decided that it was

00:05:29 ◼   ► time for us to embrace our true tiny head form, we went to Chris to ask him if he could

00:05:35 ◼   ► help depict our new permanent state. And this t-shirt, I will say, I mean I don't own it

00:05:43 ◼   ► yet, but from a design perspective, is my favorite t-shirt design that I have ever been

00:05:49 ◼   ► a part of. I absolutely adore this illustration of the three of us in our ultimate forms.

00:05:57 ◼   ► It's wonderful. I have pens in my pocket. Steven, he's very fancy. He's Mr. Work, business

00:06:02 ◼   ► Steven with his laptop. And ultimate Federico in a stripey t-shirt. It's just so good.

00:06:10 ◼   ► Kate pointed out that in our previous art Federico is also wearing that same stripe

00:06:14 ◼   ► shirt. I mean that's the level of detail here.

00:06:17 ◼   ► Yep. Federico only wears that.

00:06:18 ◼   ► - Well, only wears that striped shirt, that's why.

00:06:20 ◼   ► - Yeah, I don't wear anything else.

00:06:22 ◼   ► You sent us a draft of this, I think, over the weekend,

00:06:25 ◼   ► and I just started laughing.

00:06:28 ◼   ► It makes me so happy.

00:06:29 ◼   ► It looks really awesome on a shirt that we did a gray,

00:06:32 ◼   ► and then sort of a blue,

00:06:34 ◼   ► and then sort of a in-between blue and gray.

00:06:36 ◼   ► Like a slate-ish color.

00:06:38 ◼   ► It has a name that I can't think of.

00:06:39 ◼   ► - Indigo.

00:06:40 ◼   ► - Let's call it space gray. - Indigo.

00:06:41 ◼   ► - Space gray, that's what Apple would do.

00:06:43 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's just a version of space gray.

00:06:45 ◼   ► It doesn't look like any other space gray.

00:06:48 ◼   ► That's how he works.

00:06:49 ◼   ► - Yeah, and we should say this is a limited run,

00:06:53 ◼   ► so once these are gone, they are gone.

00:06:55 ◼   ► So if you're interested in one, I would jump on it.

00:06:59 ◼   ► - Yep, and Cotton Bureau, now they do

00:07:01 ◼   ► reduce shipping costs outside of the US.

00:07:04 ◼   ► So in the past, their shipping was pretty expensive,

00:07:07 ◼   ► but they now have flat rate cheap shipping.

00:07:09 ◼   ► So this is why we're going with Cotton Bureau,

00:07:11 ◼   ► because they've gotten some great deals there.

00:07:14 ◼   ► So no matter where you are in the world,

00:07:16 ◼   ► you can get your hands on one of these.

00:07:17 ◼   ► I'm extremely excited. Please go buy this t-shirt because trust me you will regret it

00:07:22 ◼   ► if you don't buy it. This is possibly the best t-shirt that has ever been created by

00:07:26 ◼   ► humans.

00:07:27 ◼   ► If you get one of these and you come say hi to WWDC, Myke and I can officially promise

00:07:32 ◼   ► that Steven will give you a high five.

00:07:35 ◼   ► That is true.

00:07:36 ◼   ► Make sure to get a t-shirt and demand a high five from Steven at WWDC if you come say hi.

00:07:41 ◼   ► I was nervous you were going to say a hug and I wasn't going to be you.

00:07:44 ◼   ► I was quite proud of Federico, he let you off there.

00:07:49 ◼   ► I appreciate that. I would not have agreed to that.

00:07:53 ◼   ► I know.

00:07:54 ◼   ► Alright, so that is the tiny head section of the show. It's a regular thing here on

00:08:00 ◼   ► this award-winning Apple podcast.

00:08:04 ◼   ► Did we win any awards? When?

00:08:07 ◼   ► Don't worry about details like that. I need to talk about an award-winning band from Italy

00:08:14 ◼   ► called The Seniors, who we uncovered last week,

00:08:16 ◼   ► we're on Apple Music, and I wanted to share

00:08:19 ◼   ► some of The Seniors mania that has been occurring

00:08:22 ◼   ► throughout the land with people bringing home pods

00:08:25 ◼   ► into their life.

00:08:26 ◼   ► So Ed Dale from Australia was the first person

00:08:30 ◼   ► to send a video to us of him playing music on his home pod.

00:08:35 ◼   ► I, to illustrate a fantastic sound effect thing

00:08:42 ◼   ► that the HomePod does, had a little video that I posted on Twitter with some wonderful

00:08:46 ◼   ► seniors music, and probably my favorite, and these will all be in the show notes, @herebefore_herebefore_on_Twitter

00:08:55 ◼   ► sent to us a hitherto unreleased HomePod ad. I will say no more, but you should go watch

00:09:01 ◼   ► that video because it is real good.

00:09:04 ◼   ► The best part of this situation that you both have manufactured on this show is that…

00:09:10 ◼   ► You brought it up! You did it! We didn't even know!

00:09:14 ◼   ► I may have edited two of your songs in last week's episode, but that was purely incidental.

00:09:20 ◼   ► You brought it up. And we also now have licensed this music as

00:09:24 ◼   ► our official outro music from Infra. Have you checked with Enjoy Record?

00:09:31 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's all good. We're okay, don't worry about it.

00:09:35 ◼   ► I can't promise that I'm going to edit that in every week.

00:09:37 ◼   ► The best part of this situation is that the other seniors guys, they have no idea this

00:09:43 ◼   ► is going on because we don't talk too much anymore. I mean, they don't know what I do

00:09:48 ◼   ► exactly for a living, but they have no idea that on Twitter and on a podcast people are

00:09:54 ◼   ► sharing and talking about these songs. So it's quite funny.

00:09:57 ◼   ► Well, you know what happens with bands all the time? It's time for your reunion tour.

00:10:02 ◼   ► Yes.

00:10:03 ◼   ► Yes.

00:10:04 ◼   ► Yes.

00:10:05 ◼   ► Yeah. We're going to play a WWDC.

00:10:06 ◼   ► you see?

00:10:07 ◼   ► God, you could be the band. You could be the Bash band.

00:10:10 ◼   ► Don't even think about it. No. Each one of us, we live in a different city, you know.

00:10:17 ◼   ► Yeah, it's a typical band story. Yeah.

00:10:24 ◼   ► I wanted to just as well give a little piece of a follow-up on emoji reactions. So two

00:10:28 ◼   ► things on this. Rejections, as you say. We're talking about this with Jeremy last time.

00:10:34 ◼   ► Sarah Perez over at TechCrunch posted an article a couple of days ago where she said, "The

00:10:41 ◼   ► company hasn't changed its policy on Apple emoji usage in apps, nor its enforcement,

00:10:46 ◼   ► according to sources familiar with the App Store's review team processes.

00:10:50 ◼   ► The policy does seem to be inconsistently enforced at times."

00:10:53 ◼   ► So it seems like Apple haven't necessarily changed whatever their policy is.

00:10:58 ◼   ► So the policy that was is the policy that is now.

00:11:02 ◼   ► But it seems like, as usual, it's being applied strangely and Jeremy over on the Emojipedia

00:11:07 ◼   ► blog has been recording more issues of applications getting rejected, which is still happening,

00:11:15 ◼   ► and also applications that have been accepted that use emoji in places where other apps

00:11:19 ◼   ► have been rejected.

00:11:21 ◼   ► So this is, yeah, we've kind of come to the conclusion of this, another case of just inconsistent

00:11:28 ◼   ► poorly applied rules, I guess you would maybe call them,

00:11:33 ◼   ► over app review, which is, again,

00:11:35 ◼   ► just leading to people being upset.

00:11:37 ◼   ► - I have another theory.

00:11:39 ◼   ► Maybe there's someone in app review,

00:11:41 ◼   ► maybe a group of people, but my theory only works

00:11:44 ◼   ► if there's maybe one or two,

00:11:46 ◼   ► that something happened to them, you know?

00:11:48 ◼   ► An emoji did something to them at some point in the past,

00:11:51 ◼   ► and now they've worked their way into Apple,

00:11:54 ◼   ► worked their way into the App Store review team,

00:11:57 ◼   ► and is there like personal mission from God

00:12:00 ◼   ► to get rid of emoji in UI elements and apps, you know?

00:12:05 ◼   ► Maybe they hit a thumbs up when they meant

00:12:07 ◼   ► to hit a thumbs down and it ruined a relationship.

00:12:10 ◼   ► Maybe they sent a black cart instead of a red heart

00:12:12 ◼   ► and you know, caused Valentine's Day problems.

00:12:14 ◼   ► - Shows that they truly hate someone.

00:12:16 ◼   ► Maybe, maybe they're just a curmudgeon

00:12:18 ◼   ► who doesn't like emoji, like how you two,

00:12:21 ◼   ► or well, more you, Steven, hate my bitmoji.

00:12:24 ◼   ► - Why me? - You know?

00:12:25 ◼   ► Well. - I do hate bitmoji.

00:12:27 ◼   ► See, you could be, if you were in App Review, you would reject all of the Bitmoji related

00:12:33 ◼   ► applications, right?

00:12:34 ◼   ► I love Bitmoji.

00:12:35 ◼   ► Bitmoji is the true expression of me in stickers form now.

00:12:39 ◼   ► It's wonderful.

00:12:41 ◼   ► You would think though, I mean, what do you guys think about this?

00:12:44 ◼   ► If it really is just there's a person or a couple people who are inconsistent for some

00:12:48 ◼   ► reason, wouldn't Apple have a record of who reviews what?

00:12:52 ◼   ► Like you think this would be easily fixed, right?

00:12:55 ◼   ► If it is somebody just, maybe they misinterpret,

00:12:57 ◼   ► best case scenario, and I honestly believe

00:12:59 ◼   ► this is what's happening, if this is the case

00:13:01 ◼   ► that Sarah's reporting says,

00:13:03 ◼   ► Apple hasn't changed its policy,

00:13:05 ◼   ► that someone on the app review team

00:13:07 ◼   ► misread or misunderstood a rule, right?

00:13:11 ◼   ► And so they made decisions that were

00:13:14 ◼   ► out of that faulty judgment, right?

00:13:16 ◼   ► They made a mistake, and that mistake

00:13:18 ◼   ► got pushed onto some developers,

00:13:19 ◼   ► which is really crappy, but they're fixing it.

00:13:22 ◼   ► Wouldn't Apple be able to fix that relatively quickly?

00:13:24 ◼   ► And it happened in these two apps

00:13:26 ◼   ► that got reviewed in the same day,

00:13:28 ◼   ► but we went to this person, let's call him John,

00:13:31 ◼   ► and we said, John, no, no, this is fine.

00:13:34 ◼   ► It would be over, but it's still kind of a thing.

00:13:37 ◼   ► I wonder what that process looks like internally

00:13:40 ◼   ► on that team.

00:13:40 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's like I don't understand

00:13:44 ◼   ► why it can't be taken care of, right?

00:13:46 ◼   ► Or why could there not be a meeting in the morning

00:13:50 ◼   ► and they're just like, we just need to confirm

00:13:53 ◼   ► how emoji works. You know what I mean? I agree with you. It's like why? I don't understand

00:13:59 ◼   ► why this type of stuff can't be changed, which does lead me to believe that like there is

00:14:05 ◼   ► something going on and it's just being poorly applied. I don't get it. I don't understand

00:14:09 ◼   ► it.

00:14:10 ◼   ► Somebody called me a socialist because I argued, yeah, last week on the show I said, you know,

00:14:17 ◼   ► I don't get it why such a huge corporation like Apple cannot, you know, allow developers

00:14:22 ◼   ► use emoji like there would be some iconography, like a UI element. And somebody basically

00:14:30 ◼   ► along the lines of this is about copyright law, unless you're a socialist and you think

00:14:34 ◼   ► everything should be free and allowed to be used by everyone. I don't think that's my

00:14:39 ◼   ► argument. Yeah, you know, some people have thoughts. I don't think that's my argument.

00:14:43 ◼   ► I think my problem is that in a way, when I see developers using emoji to adorn their

00:14:54 ◼   ► UIs, I wonder if in a way that use of emoji is helping some developers who may not have

00:15:01 ◼   ► the resources to hire a designer and create icons to make prettier, nicer applications

00:15:09 ◼   ► then they would be otherwise without emoji.

00:15:11 ◼   ► And so I wonder why does the corporation with 200 and plus billions in the bank

00:15:17 ◼   ► go against the indie developers who's using a stock trend emoji in its application?

00:15:22 ◼   ► Or I wonder, it also maybe even helps with localization, right?

00:15:28 ◼   ► Like if you've got to have all these different strings,

00:15:30 ◼   ► and if your UI works in a way that emoji can explain something,

00:15:32 ◼   ► that's less translation you have to do too.

00:15:34 ◼   ► Like there's lots of good reasons for it.

00:15:36 ◼   ► You know, I'm not saying that let's abolish copyright law and allow everybody to use Apple's

00:15:42 ◼   ► emoji. That is not my argument. My argument is that on one side we have the huge corporation

00:15:48 ◼   ► and emoji and on the other we have developers making applications for the Apple platform.

00:15:53 ◼   ► It's not like these developers are taking the emoji and putting them on billboards in

00:15:58 ◼   ► the street. They are putting them in iPhone and iPad apps. And the fact that emoji on

00:16:04 ◼   ► on iOS are such high quality and people crave them and people want to use them, Apple should

00:16:09 ◼   ► be proud of that instead of going against those apps and those developers. That's my

00:16:14 ◼   ► argument. But yet, we still don't know either way.

00:16:18 ◼   ► Yeah. So. Alright, let's take a break. Today's show

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00:18:24 ◼   ► So HomePod, it is HomePod time, they have arrived, we all have them. Federico's was

00:18:29 ◼   ► lovingly brought for him from an undisclosed location through Europe and all the way over

00:18:34 ◼   ► into Italy, I want to get your first impressions on it.

00:18:38 ◼   ► Steven, what is your, like, what are your kind of overall feelings about HomePod?

00:18:44 ◼   ► Oh, you left off the article when you said it. That makes me sad.

00:18:48 ◼   ► Yeah, I know. It's when I did it. I said home, I would say about HomePod and not about the

00:18:52 ◼   ► HomePod. But in that instance, that's how fancy people talk, Myke. It felt right. I

00:18:57 ◼   ► was following the official marketing guidelines, you know.

00:19:01 ◼   ► of Mind Virus. I don't think my thoughts are particularly unique. It does sound good.

00:19:11 ◼   ► It has a very strong philosophy about how things should sound. There's a section on

00:19:19 ◼   ► yesterday's episode of query that Serenity talks about this as well. The HomePod has

00:19:24 ◼   ► an opinion about how your music should sound. And for the most part, the types of music

00:19:28 ◼   ► I listen to at least, it sounds really good.

00:19:31 ◼   ► But there are certain circumstances where the processing

00:19:34 ◼   ► that it does is kind of weird, where like things

00:19:37 ◼   ► that you think should go to the tweeters go to the sub

00:19:39 ◼   ► and it gets muddy or weird or whatever.

00:19:42 ◼   ► But I like it as a speaker, I like the way that it sounds.

00:19:45 ◼   ► Again, for the type of music I enjoy.

00:19:48 ◼   ► The Siri stuff's not great, but we can get into that.

00:19:51 ◼   ► I did pin it against the iPod Hi-Fi

00:19:55 ◼   ► because I like to make as relevant as content

00:19:58 ◼   ► as I can for my YouTube channel.

00:20:00 ◼   ► - You're the person, right?

00:20:01 ◼   ► Like that is what I expected from you.

00:20:03 ◼   ► If you would have given me any other type of video,

00:20:05 ◼   ► I think I would have been upset.

00:20:07 ◼   ► - So I did that.

00:20:08 ◼   ► So you can go see how it compares

00:20:10 ◼   ► to the 12 year old iPod Hi-Fi.

00:20:15 ◼   ► I totally forgotten the iPod Hi-Fi was so close

00:20:17 ◼   ► to the original iPhone launch.

00:20:18 ◼   ► It feels like an eternity before the iPhone,

00:20:20 ◼   ► but it really wasn't.

00:20:21 ◼   ► And the HomePod just blows it away.

00:20:24 ◼   ► I mean, it's a lot newer, obviously, and a lot smarter.

00:20:27 ◼   ► and much smaller which is nice too. I don't think people realize how big the iPod Hi-Fi is until you

00:20:31 ◼   ► see a picture with an iPod on top of it. It's massive. It's massive. But it was fun to compare

00:20:38 ◼   ► the two. You know it's always an experience to publish something on YouTube with a mistake in it

00:20:45 ◼   ► and then get called out by the comments which is fun. I complained that the power cable was not

00:20:50 ◼   ► removable but the news broke after I published it that it is removable. It's not removable though

00:20:55 ◼   ► really like you can yank it out. It is removable it is not replaceable like

00:21:01 ◼   ► it's like saying you know the the front cover like all that fun that's removable

00:21:06 ◼   ► too if you remove it. Yeah it's not like a two prong or three prong like thing

00:21:12 ◼   ► that just plugs into it so I stand by my complaint that if you damage that cord

00:21:16 ◼   ► you're in trouble and Apple will replace the cord for $29 but if you damage the

00:21:22 ◼   ► HomePod itself it's basically you just got to buy a new one as expensive as the

00:21:25 ◼   ► damage repair is. So most of the comments are about that despite me pinning a

00:21:30 ◼   ► comment saying it and having it in the description people just don't read.

00:21:34 ◼   ► That's pleasant. So yeah I think that's how I feel about it. It's a good

00:21:39 ◼   ► speaker I use Apple music I like I like Apple music so it fits in with me in

00:21:43 ◼   ► that regard but it's not as smart as the Amazon Echo is. What do you think? Yeah so

00:21:50 ◼   ► So, I like HomePod. Oh no, I cannot do this. I wanted to do a full sentence without... I

00:21:57 ◼   ► cannot bring myself to this. So I like it. I got it a couple of days ago. And I should

00:22:04 ◼   ► say that I still haven't tried the high volume like anything above 40%. Because my dogs are

00:22:15 ◼   ► easily scared and you know by like loud bass and just high volume in general and I still didn't have

00:22:23 ◼   ► a good moment to just sit by myself and listen to loud music. So for what I've listened to so far at

00:22:29 ◼   ► like 30 to 40 percent I think it's totally fine it sounds really good. I don't think it's mind-blowing

00:22:37 ◼   ► at this kind of volume. I don't think it's room filling in the way that people make it out to

00:22:45 ◼   ► be but I think it also highly depends on the kind of configuration that you have.

00:22:50 ◼   ► I have a really small kitchen and living room space it's a really small room we

00:22:55 ◼   ► live in a small apartment I don't have like the kind of front room that you

00:22:59 ◼   ► have Myke it's really like half of that I think so I'm not able to appreciate

00:23:07 ◼   ► how room feeling it sounds because there's not enough room to feel

00:23:12 ◼   ► basically, is my problem. So right now it's sitting against a wall behind my TV, because

00:23:20 ◼   ► that's the only place that I have. I wanted to put it where the Echo used to be, but it's

00:23:25 ◼   ► too wide for that space, because it's also the space where my modem is, so there's not

00:23:33 ◼   ► enough room there. I think it sounds okay. I still haven't tried the loud volume thing.

00:23:41 ◼   ► I love the way that Siri talks. I think it's really, you know, it's a really nice voice,

00:23:47 ◼   ► if that makes sense. And the animation on top is fine, even though I don't always see the animation,

00:23:55 ◼   ► because again, it's behind the TV, so I only see the LEDs light up when I'm like washing the dishes

00:24:03 ◼   ► and I turn and I talk to Siri, then I see the HomePod. I think it's fine. The only surprise

00:24:10 ◼   ► for me was how heavy it is. It is a heavier, it's hefty, I was not expecting it to be,

00:24:18 ◼   ► you know, it's compact, it's dense. But overall as basically everybody has said, this is what

00:24:26 ◼   ► I was expecting and it's nice, it integrates nicely with iOS and the iPhone. So I'm, you

00:24:32 ◼   ► know, I replaced the Echo with it, we'll see how it goes. But, you know, it's going well

00:24:36 ◼   ► so far, even though I'm not like, you know, screaming in surprise, oh my god, this is

00:24:43 ◼   ► the way that music sounds. Because, as I said, my room is small, and I still haven't tried

00:24:49 ◼   ► high volumes.

00:24:50 ◼   ► No, I was it gets very, very loud. I turned it 200% in my studio, which is 200 square

00:24:57 ◼   ► feet. And it, it's too loud. They need to they need to bring that in a little bit, I

00:25:05 ◼   ► think.

00:25:06 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean I was I was talking about this an upgrade like I would love to have an ability to cap it

00:25:12 ◼   ► So I have more range to turn it up and down

00:25:15 ◼   ► Because I'm really keeping it like in the lower

00:25:17 ◼   ► 30% of the volume and I don't really need it to go any more than that

00:25:21 ◼   ► So I would like to be able to like move it more freely than I currently can

00:25:25 ◼   ► I would say that I am more impressed by the audio than you two

00:25:30 ◼   ► I feel like there's like a sliding scale between us. Like I love it

00:25:34 ◼   ► I think the audio sounds amazing.

00:25:37 ◼   ► And again, I will say, I think I said this last week,

00:25:40 ◼   ► I don't have a good enough understanding

00:25:42 ◼   ► for how speaker technology works,

00:25:44 ◼   ► nor could I really, I mean, like Steven,

00:25:46 ◼   ► you were talking about the tweeters and stuff.

00:25:48 ◼   ► I couldn't even, or it gets muddy, right?

00:25:51 ◼   ► Like you used that phrase.

00:25:52 ◼   ► I don't know, I can't conceive what that means to speakers.

00:25:55 ◼   ► I don't think I have that thing

00:25:58 ◼   ► where I can pick out all of the different ways

00:26:01 ◼   ► that something sounds, right?

00:26:03 ◼   ► I don't think I have that, but what I do know is that this is the best speaker that I've

00:26:08 ◼   ► ever owned and I love the way that music sounds on it. I love the way that the spatial stuff

00:26:14 ◼   ► works. Like I was listening to Hamilton and the lyrics, like the vocals, they're like

00:26:20 ◼   ► closer to me than the rest of the music. And I love the way it makes that sound space.

00:26:25 ◼   ► And for me, like it totally does fill the room and I've been really impressed with that.

00:26:32 ◼   ► We have it located nicely in the middle of the room, like it's right in the center of

00:26:36 ◼   ► the room, and it does a great job of filling everything.

00:26:39 ◼   ► I've been really happy with it, and I find the microphones to be very good, right?

00:26:45 ◼   ► It picks that sort of stuff up very well.

00:26:49 ◼   ► The fact that it hears any, it can just hear literally anybody say the phrase has been

00:26:56 ◼   ► difficult, especially when trying to watch HomePod review videos.

00:27:00 ◼   ► was a real a real mess. Yeah I had my video I said a lot of people's

00:27:06 ◼   ► home pods off of my video. I ran into it when I was editing the video and

00:27:16 ◼   ► actually like unplugged the thing. It didn't cross my mind that right this

00:27:21 ◼   ► isn't like a hoy telephone on my iPhone where it's been trained because this is

00:27:26 ◼   ► and we're getting into the software even though very little of it is designed as

00:27:30 ◼   ► if anyone lives with any other human being ever, it is designed to listen to anyone who

00:27:37 ◼   ► talks to it. And sorry about that. It was too late to do anything about it.

00:27:44 ◼   ► But I mean, this is the same if like people do Amazon Echo videos or whatever, but like

00:27:48 ◼   ► I watched an Amazon Echo video in a while. So, you know, this is what it is. What do

00:27:55 ◼   ► you guys think about the way that the HomePod integrates with the Home app? It feels like

00:28:01 ◼   ► it's kind of just nothing.

00:28:05 ◼   ► Can I go ahead, Stephen?

00:28:07 ◼   ► Yes.

00:28:09 ◼   ► I think it's, I don't want to say a mess, but I think Apple should really rethink the

00:28:15 ◼   ► way that the Home app is designed and make the HomePod a special area or kind of widget

00:28:23 ◼   ► in the home app, because right now my main problem with the home app on iOS is the fact

00:28:29 ◼   ► that it's so easy to confuse things. Like everything looks the same. Different types

00:28:34 ◼   ► of accessories look like everything is a square or a rectangle. And the home pod is just another

00:28:40 ◼   ► rectangle. It doesn't have any special controls. It's not like a mini player, as I would have

00:28:47 ◼   ► expected. It's just a square and you tap it and you play and pause music. And the main

00:28:53 ◼   ► problem with the home app is that to an extent I feel like it was sort of designed when Apple

00:29:00 ◼   ► wanted to demo 3D Touch and tell people look how fancy we can be with all these interactions

00:29:06 ◼   ► and these long presses and you navigate into this setting screen and you have multiple

00:29:12 ◼   ► layers of the interface. But in practice, and especially now that I'm adding more and

00:29:16 ◼   ► more HomeKit stuff to my devices, I can see why people think it's confusing.

00:29:22 ◼   ► Because everything looks the same, and every control that you want to have available at

00:29:27 ◼   ► your fingertips requires a long press or a 3D touch, and you need to go into this nested

00:29:34 ◼   ► detail views.

00:29:36 ◼   ► And the same is true for the HomePod.

00:29:37 ◼   ► Like, for example, I was looking for the personal request setting.

00:29:41 ◼   ► I was like, okay, maybe I need to tap, I need to 3D touch on the HomePod square and I go

00:29:47 ◼   ► into the details because that's how settings work for other HomeKit devices.

00:29:53 ◼   ► I can go in there and see the settings and I will find personal request.

00:29:58 ◼   ► But no, it's not there.

00:30:00 ◼   ► You need to tap like a narrow icon and then you need to tap your profile picture and you

00:30:05 ◼   ► will find the personal request option for the HomePod.

00:30:08 ◼   ► Like it's totally unintuitive.

00:30:10 ◼   ► And I think the bigger picture here is that I think Apple should redesign the Home app.

00:30:14 ◼   ► And for the HomePod, which is a special device because it's made by Apple, there should be

00:30:18 ◼   ► an interactive kind of control or widget in the Home app that sort of mimics what you

00:30:24 ◼   ► would see in Control Center, which is another problem, the way that you need to navigate

00:30:29 ◼   ► multiple audio output devices in Control Center.

00:30:33 ◼   ► But I would say that I think it's confusing the way that it works right now.

00:30:37 ◼   ► there should be a better new interface

00:30:42 ◼   ► that makes each device unique.

00:30:45 ◼   ► Like a motion sensor and light switch and the HomePod

00:30:50 ◼   ► all look the same right now in the Home app.

00:30:52 ◼   ► And I don't think that is good design.

00:30:54 ◼   ► - You mentioned the personal requests.

00:30:56 ◼   ► Are you, like this is the thing where,

00:30:58 ◼   ► it's named so peculiarly anyway.

00:31:01 ◼   ► This is the thing where you can have your messages,

00:31:03 ◼   ► reminders and notes, definitely not calendar.

00:31:06 ◼   ► What are you crazy?

00:31:07 ◼   ► why would you want calendar integration? Definitely don't have that. But the three things that

00:31:11 ◼   ► it does do, Apple warns you when you're setting it up, right, as we were talking about last

00:31:16 ◼   ► week because this, you may, basically anyone can read your messages if your phone is on

00:31:24 ◼   ► the same WiFi network. Are you going to leave that on?

00:31:27 ◼   ► I have left it on because for two reasons. One of them which, you know, I don't have

00:31:33 ◼   ► secrets. I talk, I don't talk to a lot of people on iMessage. I basically talk to you guys, my

00:31:39 ◼   ► parents and my girlfriend and like if somebody, it's extremely rare that someone is home and I'm

00:31:48 ◼   ► not. But if one of my friends would come to my house and talk to my HomePod, they would have to

00:31:56 ◼   ► worry about my reaction, not, you know, like, I wouldn't allow people to talk to the HomePod.

00:32:02 ◼   ► Also, the fact that I live in Italy, like, it's not normal for my friends to come over

00:32:08 ◼   ► and start talking in English to my HomePod. And finally, Sylvia couldn't be bothered to interact

00:32:14 ◼   ► with the HomePod and Siri. Like, she doesn't care, she doesn't like it, she thinks I'm crazy with all

00:32:18 ◼   ► these assistants and these voice controls. So I'm in a unique position that all the people I care

00:32:24 ◼   ► about do not talk in English and do not care about the technology that I use.

00:32:28 ◼   ► So a personal request is not a problem for me.

00:32:33 ◼   ► I've left it on because I turned it on and I mostly forgot about it because

00:32:41 ◼   ► I'm not saying that that's the right thing for everyone to do,

00:32:45 ◼   ► but like the home pod doesn't alert you when you have a message. Right.

00:32:50 ◼   ► So really is the case of somebody coming into my house and asking for the home

00:32:55 ◼   ► pod to read my messages? Because I kind of don't care if Adina could do it.

00:32:59 ◼   ► Like, I understand.

00:33:01 ◼   ► Like, I really get it. Like, trust me, I 100 percent get it.

00:33:05 ◼   ► Like, if that's not a thing that you want in your home with your family or

00:33:08 ◼   ► whomever, for like whatever reason, like it doesn't have to be a bad thing.

00:33:11 ◼   ► Just everyone's different. Right.

00:33:13 ◼   ► Like in the same way that like some people share their passcodes and stuff like

00:33:16 ◼   ► that. And like some people are private, some people are not private.

00:33:19 ◼   ► like it's your own personal circumstances.

00:33:21 ◼   ► But for me, it's not something that I worry about,

00:33:24 ◼   ► but it's also not something that I really think I'm ever going to use,

00:33:27 ◼   ► because like I have devices surrounding me at all times,

00:33:32 ◼   ► which have my notifications on them.

00:33:35 ◼   ► So I don't think I'm really going to use this feature, but it's there.

00:33:38 ◼   ► And I think that Apple should do something to try and make it authenticated

00:33:42 ◼   ► in some at least minimal way by voice. Right.

00:33:44 ◼   ► So trying to recognize different voices.

00:33:46 ◼   ► I think it's an oversight, but it's fine that it...

00:33:51 ◼   ► I mean, honestly, my biggest annoyance is the fact that it can't even look at my calendar.

00:33:57 ◼   ► That is mind-boggling to me.

00:33:58 ◼   ► I'm more annoyed about that than I am the personal requests thing.

00:34:01 ◼   ► I want to say, though, because I think it sounded like I was sort of down on the Home

00:34:06 ◼   ► Pod.

00:34:08 ◼   ► I think I absolutely love the fact that I have an echo with Siri, in the sense that

00:34:15 ◼   ► I have this Siri device that it's in my living room/kitchen. Even though I haven't been able

00:34:23 ◼   ► to fully absorb the sound, especially because of the dogs, because they're really scared

00:34:28 ◼   ► by loud music, I love the fact that I can control HomeKit devices, like native devices

00:34:36 ◼   ► that I have, accessories that I have installed in my house and I can also control on iOS.

00:34:42 ◼   ► the fact that I can easily ask to play music from my Apple Music account. I absolutely

00:34:51 ◼   ► love the fact that Siri is now like this presence in my living room, but I'm keeping an asterisk

00:34:59 ◼   ► on sound quality about, you know, for when I will be able to, maybe tonight, I don't

00:35:04 ◼   ► know, when I will be able to test the actual full volume. I wanted to specify that because,

00:35:09 ◼   ► you know, then it's gonna become a meme, that Federico is against the HomePod.

00:35:15 ◼   ► I'm just gonna say, like I recommend, don't test the full volume at night.

00:35:19 ◼   ► That's bad time.

00:35:20 ◼   ► Oh, you mean for the neighbors?

00:35:21 ◼   ► I think.

00:35:22 ◼   ► Ah, there's a...

00:35:23 ◼   ► Federico is really loud.

00:35:27 ◼   ► I would only do it for like 10 seconds, not like...

00:35:30 ◼   ► Okay, but...

00:35:31 ◼   ► Two hours.

00:35:32 ◼   ► I mean, go for it, right?

00:35:35 ◼   ► Even test it for 10 seconds.

00:35:36 ◼   ► Your neighbors are gonna notice.

00:35:37 ◼   ► It's just, it's all I will, like, people will gonna know.

00:35:40 ◼   ► - There's a dispute too.

00:35:41 ◼   ► - Give it a go. - There's a dispute too

00:35:42 ◼   ► with the guy downstairs anyway,

00:35:44 ◼   ► so it's good to establish, you know,

00:35:46 ◼   ► who's got the loudest speakers.

00:35:48 ◼   ► - Who's loudest?

00:35:49 ◼   ► (both laughing)

00:35:51 ◼   ► So let's talk about Siri, right?

00:35:53 ◼   ► I mean, I'll say just super quick,

00:35:54 ◼   ► like, 'cause it's not really worth going into,

00:35:56 ◼   ► the HomeKit stuff that I've used works.

00:35:59 ◼   ► I can tell my lights on and off, like, it works, right?

00:36:02 ◼   ► Same way that it works with my phone, it's fine.

00:36:04 ◼   ► Let's talk about Siri.

00:36:05 ◼   ► So research firm Loop Ventures, this is Gene Munster's firm.

00:36:10 ◼   ► They tested some responses across all smart speakers.

00:36:14 ◼   ► So like they got a Cortana speaker

00:36:17 ◼   ► that was in like a home and common thing.

00:36:19 ◼   ► They have an Amazon Echo, Google Home and the HomePod.

00:36:23 ◼   ► They tested it in a bunch of categories.

00:36:25 ◼   ► I'll put links in the show notes so you can go and read it.

00:36:27 ◼   ► But the top line is that Google Home

00:36:29 ◼   ► came out top in everything.

00:36:32 ◼   ► HomePod only did better than last place in two categories.

00:36:37 ◼   ► One of them called local, which is for example,

00:36:40 ◼   ► where can I find a cup of coffee?

00:36:41 ◼   ► So like asking about like local services

00:36:45 ◼   ► and another is commerce.

00:36:47 ◼   ► So they use an example of like, help me buy some shoes.

00:36:50 ◼   ► I don't really know what the HomePod can do in this area,

00:36:52 ◼   ► but apparently it did a good job.

00:36:54 ◼   ► Overall, Siri on the HomePod understood 99.4% of queries,

00:37:00 ◼   ► but only answered 52% of them correctly.

00:37:04 ◼   ► This puts Siri at the bottom overall

00:37:06 ◼   ► for AI assistant performance.

00:37:09 ◼   ► What do we think of that?

00:37:10 ◼   ► It doesn't look good.

00:37:11 ◼   ► I mean, I know that it, in theory, Apple would say, right,

00:37:16 ◼   ► that like it doesn't,

00:37:18 ◼   ► it doesn't, HomePod doesn't support all of the things

00:37:23 ◼   ► that these other services support, right?

00:37:25 ◼   ► Which is why it couldn't answer the questions.

00:37:28 ◼   ► But I don't think that that is an excuse though, right?

00:37:31 ◼   ► Like I feel like it probably should do this.

00:37:34 ◼   ► - There's two takeaways from this I think.

00:37:36 ◼   ► One is that Google is obviously ahead of everybody here.

00:37:40 ◼   ► - Yep, which you would expect I think

00:37:44 ◼   ► for like take a question, answer a question.

00:37:47 ◼   ► Google should always be ahead.

00:37:49 ◼   ► - The fact that the HomePod and Siri are behind

00:37:53 ◼   ► because they do not compete in some domains

00:37:57 ◼   ► is not an excuse, that's exactly the problem,

00:38:01 ◼   ► that circuit should be expanded to support more domains.

00:38:05 ◼   ► And it's been what, like two years of circuit

00:38:08 ◼   ► and we're still limited to like six or seven domains,

00:38:12 ◼   ► maybe more, but there's a couple that I would,

00:38:14 ◼   ► I would really be surprised if more than a million people

00:38:18 ◼   ► use some of the more specific circuit domains

00:38:21 ◼   ► on a monthly basis.

00:38:23 ◼   ► So I think the fact that the HomePod does pretty good

00:38:27 ◼   ► with Siri in the domains where it can compete

00:38:30 ◼   ► and it cannot compete in others,

00:38:33 ◼   ► that's exactly the problem.

00:38:35 ◼   ► Like Siri is mostly okay when it works.

00:38:39 ◼   ► And it means that the Google intelligence is still ahead

00:38:43 ◼   ► and the domains must be expanded.

00:38:45 ◼   ► So I wonder.

00:38:47 ◼   ► - Well, let's talk about SiriKit not working, right?

00:38:52 ◼   ► I had not a good experience trying to use even the limited set of SiriKit functionality

00:39:01 ◼   ► available on the HomePod.

00:39:04 ◼   ► I tried to add things to Dodoist and things.

00:39:08 ◼   ► It couldn't even understand me asking.

00:39:11 ◼   ► What I think the problem is, is I may not have been asking in the exact wording that

00:39:17 ◼   ► Siri expects, but I also don't think that I should have to have exact wording, really.

00:39:24 ◼   ► I tried to send a message of airmail. It was like a long process of going through all the

00:39:30 ◼   ► different Federico Vaticces that were in my contacts, as Siri likes to call you. I don't

00:39:36 ◼   ► know if you're aware of that Federico, but Siri likes to call you Federico Vaticce. It

00:39:42 ◼   ► It then resulted in "there's a problem with this app" was what I got at the end of it

00:39:47 ◼   ► after going through the whole process.

00:39:49 ◼   ► Then I tried to use WhatsApp and WhatsApp gave me an error three times in a row.

00:39:54 ◼   ► The associated iOS, well the HomePod did while trying to use WhatsApp, the associated iOS

00:39:59 ◼   ► device must connect to the network first.

00:40:01 ◼   ► Like it was 100% connected to the network.

00:40:04 ◼   ► So I think that SiriKit, even in its limited function, is not working very well at all

00:40:09 ◼   ► on the HomePod.

00:40:10 ◼   ► Would you agree Federico?

00:40:11 ◼   ► I can tell you that it doesn't work for me at all because I'm on the 11.3 beta and every single circuit request to third-party apps, it says that I need an app installed on my phone.

00:40:27 ◼   ► And I do have the app installed on my phone, but it doesn't work. And so I asked on Twitter, a bunch of people told me, "Yeah, I see the same issue. I'm also on 11.3 beta. It works fine on other devices on 11.2.5."

00:40:40 ◼   ► so I yeah it doesn't work for me at all I hope that in the future this will be

00:40:48 ◼   ► resolved and that it will not be a thing like if you have a beta on your iPhone

00:40:51 ◼   ► then the HomePod will be limited because that will be annoying yeah I would

00:40:56 ◼   ► really like to see them do a better job with this just in general like the Siri

00:41:01 ◼   ► kit stuff was underwhelming to begin with just based upon what it can

00:41:05 ◼   ► actually support especially when you enter situations like now that you have

00:41:09 ◼   ► HomePod, if you ever say the "Hello to Siri" phrase, if it's a SiriKit function

00:41:17 ◼   ► that it can't process, the HomePod will take the request because it always seems

00:41:23 ◼   ► to dominate the trigger word, right? Like it takes all requests. And if you say

00:41:27 ◼   ► "ask to order a Lyft or an Uber or something" it will just tell you "I can't

00:41:32 ◼   ► do that" and then that's the end of your experience, which I think is pretty bad.

00:41:36 ◼   ► so like it already kind of screwed up there initially and then it just kind of

00:41:42 ◼   ► got a little bit just just a bit worse by not even doing a good job of what it

00:41:47 ◼   ► can support so yeah not not great overall yeah that's something that

00:41:52 ◼   ► Amazon does really well like if you ask the echo something and it can't do it or

00:41:57 ◼   ► it needs to show you something it says oh hey open the app and it's there but

00:42:01 ◼   ► But Apple, guys, breaking news,

00:42:04 ◼   ► Apple owns both the HomePod and the iPhone tech.

00:42:07 ◼   ► Like, it's the same group of people.

00:42:10 ◼   ► They could service that stuff on the lock screen.

00:42:12 ◼   ► Like, there's so much more they could do.

00:42:14 ◼   ► The HomePod is really well integrated with Apple Music,

00:42:17 ◼   ► but it feels like an island when it comes

00:42:19 ◼   ► to everything else.

00:42:20 ◼   ► And that's just really, really frustrating

00:42:22 ◼   ► from a company that says that its strength

00:42:25 ◼   ► is like hardware, software, and services

00:42:27 ◼   ► all working together.

00:42:29 ◼   ► That's just not, this is not true in this case.

00:42:30 ◼   ► I think there should just be like SiriKit in iCloud.

00:42:34 ◼   ► There should be like an API for developers

00:42:36 ◼   ► who have web services to integrate with Siri.

00:42:40 ◼   ► - But this is the problem.

00:42:41 ◼   ► This is the problem with the privacy stuff.

00:42:43 ◼   ► This is the privacy angle that Apple going down

00:42:46 ◼   ► is restricting them here, right?

00:42:47 ◼   ► Because they're doing it all on device,

00:42:49 ◼   ► if it's not gonna work on device,

00:42:50 ◼   ► it's not gonna work. - What are they doing

00:42:51 ◼   ► on device?

00:42:52 ◼   ► Because there must be a way,

00:42:54 ◼   ► the same way that they do CloudKit, for example.

00:42:59 ◼   ► Well, but then why haven't they? I mean, I agree with you, right? Like, it makes sense,

00:43:03 ◼   ► but like surely some Siri kit is not working in the cloud because otherwise it would be

00:43:07 ◼   ► able to order a lift for me, right?

00:43:08 ◼   ► I think a lot of people are using, not you, but this is an argument that I see on Twitter.

00:43:14 ◼   ► A lot of people use privacy as an excuse for, I don't want to say technical incompetence,

00:43:19 ◼   ► but lack of...

00:43:22 ◼   ► You know what though? But that's a good thing though, isn't it? Like me saying, oh, it's

00:43:25 ◼   ► because of privacy covers up some other issues.

00:43:28 ◼   ► I did just think actually stuff like ordering a ride sharing might need a screen

00:43:32 ◼   ► or like Apple's designed it to need a screen.

00:43:35 ◼   ► And that's the reason that HomePod can support it.

00:43:36 ◼   ► But I do wonder, which is weird because Amazon can do it without a screen.

00:43:40 ◼   ► Like it's right.

00:43:41 ◼   ► People are doing this.

00:43:42 ◼   ► It's possible to do.

00:43:43 ◼   ► I mean, like Apple's decided implementation, which again, they could change,

00:43:47 ◼   ► but they they haven't, especially when you would assume that when they created

00:43:52 ◼   ► the Siri kit for ride sharing, they knew that the home public's going to be coming. So it

00:43:58 ◼   ► is all very confusing. Can I talk about timers for a minute? Just for one minute?

00:44:03 ◼   ► Mm-hmm. Please.

00:44:04 ◼   ► You can set a one-minute timer on it. Because I've mentioned timers a bunch, like the fact

00:44:08 ◼   ► that you can't set timers, and people keep trying to send me workarounds for it. So let

00:44:12 ◼   ► me just explain my situation. I set timers when I cook. I set multiple timers when I

00:44:16 ◼   ► cook because I cook meals that have multiple parts to them, right? You've got the potatoes

00:44:21 ◼   ► going, you've got steak going, whatever, you're making a gravy, you need timers. And that's

00:44:27 ◼   ► how I like to cook, I have timers. And I ask my echo for these timers. And I like multiple

00:44:32 ◼   ► timers with names. So I can say like, 10 minute potato timer, 3 minute steak timer, right?

00:44:39 ◼   ► Alarms don't work for me. People said, "Oh, why don't you just set alarms?" And the home

00:44:42 ◼   ► app can set alarms, because I want to be able to check how long I have left on a timer,

00:44:47 ◼   ► which you can't do for an alarm, right? So there are times where I was like, "How long

00:44:50 ◼   ► is left on this so I know whether I should start something else. Alarms don't work that

00:44:54 ◼   ► way. And I don't want an app, any app, whether it's the home app or the clock app, to be

00:45:00 ◼   ► filling up with endless entries that just say potatoes and rice on them. Like I just

00:45:04 ◼   ► don't want that because that is a bad workaround for something that is a very basic task that

00:45:10 ◼   ► Apple's competitors seem to have no issue with. Like it doesn't seem very difficult

00:45:15 ◼   ► to be able to set multiple timers and then to also name them.

00:45:18 ◼   ► Like I was complaining about the Amazon Echo when it didn't have nameable timers

00:45:23 ◼   ► for a long time because Google did.

00:45:25 ◼   ► And now the Amazon Echo has it.

00:45:27 ◼   ► I really think this should have just been this should just be something that iOS supports.

00:45:31 ◼   ► Your timer is done, Myke.

00:45:33 ◼   ► Thank you. Was that an actual timer?

00:45:35 ◼   ► Yes.

00:45:35 ◼   ► So there you go. I took my minute and that's that.

00:45:38 ◼   ► I want to ask you both about damage to wooden services.

00:45:44 ◼   ► - Services, surfaces.

00:45:46 ◼   ► - Wooden web services.

00:45:48 ◼   ► - Surfaces.

00:45:50 ◼   ► Damage to wooden web services.

00:45:52 ◼   ► I can't talk, somebody else do this, I'm done, I'm leaving.

00:45:54 ◼   ► - So there's a paragraph in the Wirecutter review

00:45:57 ◼   ► of the HomePod that this reviewer,

00:46:01 ◼   ► and it turns out a lot of the people are discovering it too,

00:46:03 ◼   ► that the HomePod will leave a ring

00:46:06 ◼   ► on some wooden surfaces.

00:46:08 ◼   ► So in my office, the desk that it's on

00:46:11 ◼   ► is like untreated pine, so there's no stain to it.

00:46:14 ◼   ► It's just raw wood.

00:46:15 ◼   ► It has not stained that, but our friend John

00:46:18 ◼   ► at Max Stories has stains on a piece of furniture

00:46:21 ◼   ► that is coated somehow.

00:46:23 ◼   ► So it's not great.

00:46:26 ◼   ► Apple touted that they tested this thing

00:46:29 ◼   ► in a bunch of employees' houses,

00:46:30 ◼   ► which is a thing we're just gonna accept

00:46:33 ◼   ► as normal and fine.

00:46:35 ◼   ► But this didn't get caught,

00:46:37 ◼   ► and it really sort of blows my mind.

00:46:41 ◼   ► This feels like the perfect example of many recent Apple PR

00:46:47 ◼   ► debacles in the sense that they must have known

00:46:51 ◼   ► that on some type of wooden surface,

00:46:54 ◼   ► it will leave the silicone, the material would leave,

00:46:58 ◼   ► you know, the kind of ring sign.

00:47:01 ◼   ► But they just didn't tell people beforehand.

00:47:03 ◼   ► They waited until somebody caught it.

00:47:07 ◼   ► And because this device has been in Apple employees' homes

00:47:11 ◼   ► for like couple of years, at least.

00:47:13 ◼   ► Let's say just one year though.

00:47:15 ◼   ► And I mean, what, nobody has a brown or black or gray

00:47:20 ◼   ► piece of wooden furniture?

00:47:22 ◼   ► I mean, I would strongly doubt that, you know,

00:47:25 ◼   ► none of the Apple employees go to Ikea

00:47:27 ◼   ► and pick up one of those, you know,

00:47:29 ◼   ► dark gray cabinets that everybody has.

00:47:32 ◼   ► But rather than telling people, you know,

00:47:35 ◼   ► the little instruction manual, like, "Look, it's silicon!" And it might leave a ring on your,

00:47:41 ◼   ► you know, on your furniture. And I assume that what's happening is the vibrations are leaving,

00:47:46 ◼   ► is what's leaving the mark, right? Whatever the reason, because it's happening to a bunch of

00:47:48 ◼   ► people. It's happening to me in Italy, it's happening to John in Chicago, it's happening to the

00:47:52 ◼   ► wire cutter person, whatever they live. So it's not like a single isolated case in Rome,

00:47:59 ◼   ► Italy or in Chicago, United States. Like, it's a thing. So just tell people, just put

00:48:06 ◼   ► a notice in the little instruction manual. Do not wait. Like, it's okay. I will put a

00:48:11 ◼   ► coaster below it. It's fine. But tell me, do not wait until you get caught.

00:48:16 ◼   ► Yeah, tell me so I can do it, right? Like, it's fine.

00:48:20 ◼   ► I understand that placing objects on furniture may leave, you know, that kind of sign. But

00:48:27 ◼   ► tell me beforehand, I'm giving you $349, you can put a little sentence in your instruction

00:48:33 ◼   ► manual, nobody would be upset. Instead, you make it a thing by not being proactive. And

00:48:41 ◼   ► that's, I see a parallel there with the battery stuff and with all the other problems that

00:48:47 ◼   ► we've seen with Apple PR, especially in the past year. Do not wait until some publication

00:48:53 ◼   ► discovers this problem. It only takes a few days anyway, and then you gotta spin the narrative

00:48:59 ◼   ► back in your control. That seems counterproductive to me.

00:49:03 ◼   ► I agree with everything you just said. I don't have it, it's on a white surface for me, but

00:49:08 ◼   ► I did have it on a war nut TV cabinet, and I would have been really mad if it would have

00:49:13 ◼   ► left a mark on that, because I really liked that piece of furniture. But it's silly. You've

00:49:20 ◼   ► You've got to assume that they did know about it, and if they didn't, then that's not enough

00:49:24 ◼   ► testing of a device that you've been in development for six years, right?

00:49:27 ◼   ► Like it's like, come on, Apple make this stuff.

00:49:32 ◼   ► For years they've made this stuff.

00:49:34 ◼   ► Like things that go on other surfaces.

00:49:36 ◼   ► I don't know, it seems silly, it's really silly, because then it becomes a big story,

00:49:42 ◼   ► right?

00:49:43 ◼   ► Then it becomes a big thing, because it's Apple.

00:49:45 ◼   ► And if you can, now there's going to be, right, you're going to go on Facebook and there's

00:49:49 ◼   ► could be a bunch of articles that are like,

00:49:51 ◼   ► "The big four in the HomePod," right?

00:49:54 ◼   ► Like, "The thing Apple doesn't want you to know.

00:49:57 ◼   ► Cover up, like silicone destroys child."

00:50:00 ◼   ► Like, it's gonna, you know, it's gonna be everywhere now,

00:50:03 ◼   ► and it's like, I don't understand your PR strategy

00:50:06 ◼   ► if you let this stuff happen to you.

00:50:07 ◼   ► - Anyway. - So there we go.

00:50:11 ◼   ► - Yeah, I do wonder how it happened.

00:50:15 ◼   ► There's a funny tweet saying that none of Apple's

00:50:17 ◼   ► press release photos have the HomePod on a wood surface,

00:50:19 ◼   ► which just cracks me up.

00:50:21 ◼   ► But yeah, I do wonder that they think about this

00:50:24 ◼   ► in like a proactive way versus a reactive way,

00:50:26 ◼   ► like you said.

00:50:27 ◼   ► Now they don't control it.

00:50:30 ◼   ► And at the end of the day,

00:50:32 ◼   ► this is not necessarily a huge deal

00:50:35 ◼   ► until someone puts it on like some antique piece

00:50:37 ◼   ► of furniture that their great grandmother brought over.

00:50:40 ◼   ► I mean, it's like someone's gonna have

00:50:41 ◼   ► something expensive ruined,

00:50:43 ◼   ► and then it's gonna be bad and sad for that person.

00:50:46 ◼   ► Yeah, I just don't know.

00:50:47 ◼   ► not what I expected to be talking about today when I woke up. I didn't think this would

00:50:50 ◼   ► be the story.

00:50:51 ◼   ► I like that there's some things from Apple that are just like "Oh, just retreat the surface!"

00:50:54 ◼   ► It's like "Okay! Thank you!" Great, great. So I would say, in case there's any question,

00:51:01 ◼   ► I'm keeping my HomePod because I love it. It's the best speaker I've ever owned and

00:51:05 ◼   ► I love listening to music on it. It's awesome.

00:51:07 ◼   ► You've gone from not wanting to buy the HomePod to being skeptical of the HomePod.

00:51:13 ◼   ► I was thinking about this. You guys are both a bit like, "I don't know, I don't know."

00:51:17 ◼   ► And you were looking forward to it. I didn't want it, right? So I had no expectations.

00:51:22 ◼   ► I had none. So all it needed to do was be barely passable and it was going to surpass

00:51:26 ◼   ► what I want, like my expectation from it. Right? Like everything I thought about the

00:51:31 ◼   ► HomePod that would be bad is bad. And I didn't know just how good the audio was going to

00:51:37 ◼   ► be. So it's better than I thought it was going to be.

00:51:39 ◼   ► Hmm. Okay. Yeah, I mean, I'm I just wanna say I'm super happy. My Echo is gone. Like we removed all the Echo stuff. We're just using...

00:51:51 ◼   ► Oh wow.

00:51:52 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah. I was trying to tell you, I love the HomePod. I'm not blown away like some people make it out to be by this audio at 40%. But I love it. It works very well. It's a fine product.

00:52:06 ◼   ► despite the ring on my furniture that I hope Seidwith doesn't notice.

00:52:10 ◼   ► But it's fine!

00:52:11 ◼   ► [laughs]

00:52:12 ◼   ► Is he able to do everything from an audio perspective that your Echo was doing for you?

00:52:18 ◼   ► All the skills and all that sort of stuff taken care of?

00:52:20 ◼   ► It hears me better than the Echo.

00:52:23 ◼   ► And because I'm not using Todoist anymore, that's not a problem.

00:52:30 ◼   ► And in fact, I could argue that it's even better in terms of music playback.

00:52:35 ◼   ► because Silvia and I share many playlists on Apple Music,

00:52:39 ◼   ► so there's an easier way to shuffle those playlists,

00:52:42 ◼   ► for example.

00:52:43 ◼   ► Like, the sentence is shorter,

00:52:45 ◼   ► and I can play Silvia's own playlists

00:52:47 ◼   ► that I have on Apple Music but I don't have on Spotify.

00:52:51 ◼   ► And I want to wait until the 11.3 beta

00:52:56 ◼   ► gets the SiriKit fix,

00:52:59 ◼   ► so I can also use things or, you know,

00:53:01 ◼   ► other apps that I have with Siri integration.

00:53:04 ◼   ► So it's you know, well, I mean you're assuming that it is a problem. Oh, yes. I am assuming that yes

00:53:09 ◼   ► I'm not on 11.3 doesn't work and I'm having all those problems. I'm at I'm on 11 to 5

00:53:16 ◼   ► In a decent future it'll work

00:53:20 ◼   ► Yeah, and that's sort of like

00:53:25 ◼   ► Matt I I'm gonna keep it. I

00:53:30 ◼   ► I don't know if it's going to replace the Echo in our kitchen.

00:53:33 ◼   ► That's where our HomePod is right now.

00:53:35 ◼   ► Making my family live with it for a while.

00:53:36 ◼   ► Because everything but the timers it does.

00:53:39 ◼   ► It may just do them worse than the Echo did.

00:53:42 ◼   ► But it sounds really good and maybe that's a trade off because we use ours for music

00:53:45 ◼   ► a lot.

00:53:47 ◼   ► I just think this is a very interesting product because the hardware, other than this destroying

00:53:52 ◼   ► antique pieces of furniture business, is like really solid.

00:53:56 ◼   ► It sounds really good.

00:53:57 ◼   ► It looks really nice.

00:53:58 ◼   ► I've got the white one.

00:53:59 ◼   ► I think everyone else that I know got the space gray one,

00:54:02 ◼   ► but I think both look nice.

00:54:04 ◼   ► All that is like a win, but it sort of folds

00:54:09 ◼   ► into the narrative that we have of Apple software

00:54:11 ◼   ► is sort of a dollar short and a day late on a lot of things.

00:54:15 ◼   ► And I think the line of, well, it's been in development

00:54:20 ◼   ► for six years or however long, eight years, 100 years,

00:54:23 ◼   ► and so it was never really designed

00:54:24 ◼   ► to compete with voice assistants.

00:54:26 ◼   ► That's too bad, it does.

00:54:28 ◼   ► Like a person who wants to spend between 200 and $500

00:54:32 ◼   ► on a speaker, they're all gonna have

00:54:34 ◼   ► some sort of voice assistant at this point.

00:54:36 ◼   ► When you compare this to the Google Home Max

00:54:40 ◼   ► or the Sonos One or the Sonos Play 5,

00:54:44 ◼   ► this doesn't hold up on the voice assistant end of things.

00:54:47 ◼   ► And Apple waving its hand saying,

00:54:49 ◼   ► "No, no, it's a speaker and we just threw this stuff in."

00:54:52 ◼   ► Like that's, like I just don't buy it.

00:54:54 ◼   ► Like that's, you can say what you wanna say,

00:54:56 ◼   ► you can repeat what Apple PR says.

00:54:58 ◼   ► And I understand their point of view, right?

00:54:59 ◼   ► 'Cause they want to compete on, it sounds really good.

00:55:02 ◼   ► And from that perspective, they seem,

00:55:05 ◼   ► from people who have listened to a bunch of these things,

00:55:06 ◼   ► seem to be doing very well.

00:55:08 ◼   ► But the fact is, it is a voice assistant in a canister,

00:55:13 ◼   ► and people are going to judge it

00:55:16 ◼   ► against what Amazon and Google are doing.

00:55:18 ◼   ► And their Apple is behind.

00:55:20 ◼   ► - You can't have your cake and eat it.

00:55:22 ◼   ► - Right. - Right.

00:55:24 ◼   ► You can't just be like, oh, we put Siri in it,

00:55:26 ◼   ► but like don't compare us.

00:55:28 ◼   ► - Don't compare it to other things

00:55:29 ◼   ► because we really didn't do it, blah, blah, blah.

00:55:31 ◼   ► Like that's just, it just doesn't--

00:55:32 ◼   ► - It was an accident, Siri fell into it.

00:55:34 ◼   ► - Yeah, the top was open and Siri was drunk and just like--

00:55:39 ◼   ► - Going to, it's like going through a marathon,

00:55:41 ◼   ► dressed up like an athlete, but say,

00:55:43 ◼   ► "No, I'm not running in the marathon,

00:55:44 ◼   ► "I'm just here, I'm just chilling."

00:55:46 ◼   ► - I'm just standing by.

00:55:48 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:55:51 ◼   ► - Yeah, no, that's totally what it's like.

00:55:53 ◼   ► And I find that narrative extremely frustrating

00:55:56 ◼   ► because we can let products compete for what they are

00:55:59 ◼   ► and it's okay if Apple doesn't always win those competitions

00:56:01 ◼   ► but some people can't stomach that.

00:56:04 ◼   ► But to answer your question, before I went off on that rant,

00:56:07 ◼   ► we're gonna keep ours.

00:56:08 ◼   ► I don't know where it will live in our lives.

00:56:12 ◼   ► This may end up that we keep the Echo in the kitchen

00:56:14 ◼   ► and maybe this is in the living room just for music.

00:56:17 ◼   ► I don't really know.

00:56:18 ◼   ► But it does everything my Echo did for us.

00:56:21 ◼   ► I don't have a lot of custom stuff,

00:56:23 ◼   ► a lot of third-party skills on my Echo.

00:56:25 ◼   ► most of it is home stuff,

00:56:27 ◼   ► and since my very first smart plug

00:56:31 ◼   ► I put in my house a couple years ago,

00:56:32 ◼   ► the only things I've added work with both Amazon and HomeKit.

00:56:35 ◼   ► Like I've done that very much on purpose,

00:56:38 ◼   ► with an eye, you know, cut towards today,

00:56:41 ◼   ► where the HomePod is a thing, so.

00:56:43 ◼   ► We'll see how it goes.

00:56:45 ◼   ► I think this is a product we have to live with,

00:56:46 ◼   ► I think we have to let Apple live with it,

00:56:48 ◼   ► I think we have to let Apple work on it and improve it.

00:56:50 ◼   ► But I'm telling you guys, like if we're here in a year,

00:56:53 ◼   ► and it still, if we're, okay.

00:56:58 ◼   ► If the world still exists in a year

00:57:03 ◼   ► and the HomePod is still basically what it is today,

00:57:07 ◼   ► like if they're not aggressively updating this thing

00:57:10 ◼   ► in the near future, then I think they've missed the boat.

00:57:13 ◼   ► I'm willing to give them a little ground now,

00:57:15 ◼   ► but like, and this is just riding off AirPlay 2

00:57:17 ◼   ► and multi-room stuff, which they've failed to ship,

00:57:20 ◼   ► but things like calendar support.

00:57:23 ◼   ► Like if you turn on personal requests,

00:57:24 ◼   ► it can't see your calendar.

00:57:25 ◼   ► Like, this is so bad.

00:57:28 ◼   ► So I think they've gotta get on the ball with evolving it,

00:57:31 ◼   ► and I think that's going to be the story

00:57:33 ◼   ► of the HomePod moving forward is,

00:57:36 ◼   ► okay, at launch, like, it sounds really good,

00:57:37 ◼   ► but it's not a great smart assistant.

00:57:39 ◼   ► Can they actually improve that?

00:57:41 ◼   ► And is it gonna be a, every year at WWDC,

00:57:44 ◼   ► the HomePod gets better, like, too late for that Apple.

00:57:47 ◼   ► Like, they've gotta be on the ball

00:57:48 ◼   ► updating this on a regular basis.

00:57:50 ◼   ► Alright, let's take a break and thank our second sponsor for this week, which is the

00:57:53 ◼   ► fine folk over at Anchor. Anchor is the fastest and easiest way for anyone to make a podcast.

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00:58:46 ◼   ► I've been using Anchor a bunch recently to do some AMA stuff.

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00:59:31 ◼   ► Thanks to Anchor for their support of this show.

00:59:33 ◼   ► Good old Mark Gurman's back with an interesting report.

00:59:37 ◼   ► This one is very old school Mark Gurman.

00:59:42 ◼   ► full of tons of little details. And it's a solo byline. It's not the hand-holding Bloomberg has

00:59:48 ◼   ► had to do for him for so long. Remember it was always like, people familiar with the matter may

00:59:52 ◼   ► say, or like, we believe like, this is like, old school, German. It's a little bit more. Yeah. And

00:59:58 ◼   ► I would assume that this might be part of the fact he got promoted recently, right? He's taken over

01:00:03 ◼   ► the beat, I think, in most basically all of it. Anyway, so I'm gonna read some of the stuff to

01:00:10 ◼   ► to you we're going to stop and talk about it where we want to. So Gurman is further

01:00:14 ◼   ► reporting that Apple will be debuting new features for iOS 12 but the main focus will

01:00:20 ◼   ► be on stability which is stuff that's been spoken about over the last couple of weeks.

01:00:24 ◼   ► But what's new in this report is he's actually talking about what's in and what's out for

01:00:28 ◼   ► iOS 12. So he talks about Project Marzipan again. This is the idea that apps will be

01:00:34 ◼   ► able to work on Mac OS and iOS right so which is probably going to be I think the way that

01:00:39 ◼   ► we're expecting it is that iOS apps can work on the Mac, right?

01:00:42 ◼   ► Like that's the way it's going to go around is how we're expecting it.

01:00:45 ◼   ► This feels like it's going to be the big thing at WWDC, right?

01:00:52 ◼   ► Like this,

01:00:53 ◼   ► this feels like one of the reasons they might be able to hold back on some iOS

01:00:58 ◼   ► 12 stuff is because they're going to debut this crazy new way of developing

01:01:03 ◼   ► applications.

01:01:04 ◼   ► Yeah. I assume that will be...

01:01:07 ◼   ► It would be blockbuster.

01:01:09 ◼   ► Yeah. Like everybody would be talking about that.

01:01:11 ◼   ► Oh, yeah. I mean, I can already imagine

01:01:14 ◼   ► the frenzied conversations I will have with developers afterwards.

01:01:18 ◼   ► Right. Like I can imagine how people will just be going like,

01:01:22 ◼   ► oh, imagine all the new things I can do. Right.

01:01:24 ◼   ► Like people, I think, are going to be really excited about it.

01:01:26 ◼   ► And for the developer conference would totally just knock

01:01:31 ◼   ► everything out of the park. Right.

01:01:32 ◼   ► No matter what they would debut in iOS 12,

01:01:36 ◼   ► If they're debuting this as well, everything else will get forgotten about, right?

01:01:39 ◼   ► Because this will be a huge change, good and bad.

01:01:43 ◼   ► There are a lot of ramifications with it.

01:01:44 ◼   ► Digital Health Tool is something that will be coming to iOS 12.

01:01:52 ◼   ► Basically, this is an application that will allow for parents to monitor how much children use their devices.

01:01:59 ◼   ► this I've been mostly ignoring a lot of the stuff around this recently because

01:02:03 ◼   ► I just kind of don't care about it but like there's a lot of

01:02:08 ◼   ► hand wringing about how much children should be able to use devices. Stephen, I'm assuming that

01:02:15 ◼   ► of all of us you are the one who has followed this news the closest because you actually have kids

01:02:19 ◼   ► true or like it rings true to you in some way. What is your thinking around this? Yeah, so the

01:02:25 ◼   ► the story has been you know Apple has been approached by people saying you

01:02:30 ◼   ► know they you need better management tools for this and like already like as

01:02:34 ◼   ► an aside iOS and Mac OS to a lesser degree but iOS in particular has really

01:02:39 ◼   ► good parental controls already like you can really lock down an iPhone or an

01:02:43 ◼   ► iPad or an iPod touch for use by kids and they say they're going to improve

01:02:49 ◼   ► that which is great they should be improving it all the time and they have

01:02:51 ◼   ► been on a pretty regular basis those tools get easier to use and easier to

01:02:57 ◼   ► manage it but more powerful. So I think Apple's done a better job than anyone

01:03:00 ◼   ► else already. The idea that I need, I'm gonna try to use my words very carefully,

01:03:06 ◼   ► that I need help monitoring how much my kids are using their devices, like I

01:03:10 ◼   ► don't think I personally need that but I recognize that my kids are still pretty

01:03:15 ◼   ► young and that they don't have access to a device without my wife or I handing it

01:03:23 ◼   ► to them. Like they don't have their own phones. We have a couple iPad minis but

01:03:28 ◼   ► you know we can you know if they're using it's because I've handed it to them.

01:03:32 ◼   ► However just because I don't necessarily feel like I need this tool doesn't mean

01:03:38 ◼   ► it's not important. I think there are a lot of kids who do have their own

01:03:41 ◼   ► devices or have a situation where they have more alone time than my kids have.

01:03:49 ◼   ► I work at home and my wife stays at home, so we're always around.

01:03:53 ◼   ► And a lot of kids, including myself growing up, had a lot more parent-free time after

01:03:57 ◼   ► school and stuff.

01:03:58 ◼   ► So I think it's good.

01:03:59 ◼   ► I think it's a good addition to iOS.

01:04:02 ◼   ► I think they've proven that they can write these sorts of tools in a way that you don't

01:04:07 ◼   ► have to be a tech podcaster or writer to understand how to use them.

01:04:11 ◼   ► I've got, I mean a lot of my friends locally have kids as well and we talk about this sort

01:04:16 ◼   ► of stuff and all of them are using this and they've all done it without me helping them.

01:04:20 ◼   ► You know they've figured it out on their own because Apple has done a good job at laying

01:04:23 ◼   ► these tools out.

01:04:24 ◼   ► So I assume that this will be a similar type thing where it's easy to maintain and you

01:04:30 ◼   ► know maybe they're going to have some remote access stuff.

01:04:33 ◼   ► Like one thing I would really like to see in this is if you're using iCloud family sharing

01:04:39 ◼   ► that give me the parent, as the parent or as a parent

01:04:44 ◼   ► in the iCloud family, let me do some of this stuff remotely.

01:04:47 ◼   ► Right, so if I, you know, if my kid isn't at home

01:04:51 ◼   ► and they need access to something that they can ask

01:04:53 ◼   ► and I can grant it, just how they do with purchases

01:04:56 ◼   ► and net purchases now, like build on that

01:04:58 ◼   ► and make this more of an interactive tool

01:05:00 ◼   ► where I don't set it and forget it,

01:05:02 ◼   ► but I have an opportunity to dialogue

01:05:04 ◼   ► with my children about it.

01:05:05 ◼   ► So for me personally, I don't feel like I need it at this point.

01:05:09 ◼   ► I probably will in the future, but I think a lot of families do want this.

01:05:13 ◼   ► And so I think it's good that Apple's addressing it.

01:05:15 ◼   ► I hope that digital health is just a term that Mark Gurman is using.

01:05:21 ◼   ► I don't like it because I don't like the implications in a name like that.

01:05:26 ◼   ► Like that it is unhealthy.

01:05:27 ◼   ► No, I think it's just going to be...

01:05:28 ◼   ► Like inherently unhealthy.

01:05:29 ◼   ► I just see this being another top level category in parental control.

01:05:33 ◼   ► I don't think this gets its own brand. I think it's just he has to call it something. I don't

01:05:38 ◼   ► think this is like a thing with a marketing name.

01:05:40 ◼   ► We're just going to call it screen time with a, you know, with its whole one word and camel

01:05:45 ◼   ► case. Yeah. Yeah. Do you know what that is? Probably what they would like if they're going

01:05:50 ◼   ► to do some kind of limiting stuff or allow you to, as you say, like to have some kind

01:05:55 ◼   ► of remote access screen time would probably what they call it. An emoji, more characters,

01:06:01 ◼   ► Better navigation, whatever that means.

01:06:04 ◼   ► I don't 100% know what that means.

01:06:06 ◼   ► Redesign of the Messages app.

01:06:08 ◼   ► Honestly, I hope it means breaking it out a little bit more.

01:06:11 ◼   ► I like this.

01:06:12 ◼   ► It felt like a throwaway line and I was like, my brain exploded.

01:06:15 ◼   ► And then he explained it, so Mark Germer says they will come to the iPad and I was like,

01:06:19 ◼   ► what?

01:06:20 ◼   ► How?

01:06:21 ◼   ► And then follows it up with, apparently Apple was working on new hardware with Face ID.

01:06:24 ◼   ► So my question, if at WWDC they announce that they're coming to the iPad, will we probably

01:06:30 ◼   ► see new iPads at WWDC. That's the hope. Like you can't say Face ID is coming to the iPad

01:06:38 ◼   ► without confirming. Well it could be one of those things where people, you know Steve

01:06:43 ◼   ► Trout Smith spelunks and finds it in iOS 12 and then we see iPads in the fall. Of course.

01:06:49 ◼   ► I mean that is of course a way it could happen. But what I mean is they can't on stage say

01:06:54 ◼   ► it's coming to the iPad. Because what they would say is it's coming to our new iPads

01:07:00 ◼   ► had in the fall which I probably announced at some point during the

01:07:03 ◼   ► presentation. One that I am very excited about and like a real good logical step

01:07:09 ◼   ► next step for it is to integrate it into FaceTime which is awesome. That will

01:07:14 ◼   ► be so much fun but I am concerned my phone will turn into just a ball of flame.

01:07:20 ◼   ► So you say that are using Animoji now? Like when's the last time you sent one?

01:07:24 ◼   ► I send them every now and then but like... When's the last time you FaceTime video

01:07:28 ◼   ► chatted with somebody whenever I travel. That has to be pretty frequent. Yeah.

01:07:35 ◼   ► Yeah whenever I travel I FaceTime video chat with Christina and you do it but like it's

01:07:40 ◼   ► a great I mean I don't know like if you're on a face so here's my thinking on this right

01:07:44 ◼   ► why I think this would be fun I'm not gonna use it that much but I will use it right but

01:07:48 ◼   ► if you are on a video call with someone just looking at each other's faces over like half

01:07:55 ◼   ► an hour if you're going to do a call like that. There's not a lot going on. It might

01:07:59 ◼   ► be fun to be a panda for 20 seconds, right? I don't know, it feels like a nice addition

01:08:05 ◼   ► to it. Animoji is mostly a selling tool of the device, and so anything you can do there

01:08:11 ◼   ► is good. I like playing around with it every now and then. I send maybe one a month, right?

01:08:16 ◼   ► Like video or sticker. But that works fine for me. There are still animoji that if they

01:08:22 ◼   ► added I would use more so like the nerd face emoji is my emoji of choice if I

01:08:28 ◼   ► could use that as an animoji I would use that basically every time instead of

01:08:32 ◼   ► using the nerd emoji right like in messages I would make my own face as the

01:08:37 ◼   ► nerd emoji and use that I don't know but animoji is what it is it is a fun little

01:08:42 ◼   ► tech demo for the iPhone 10 and it will be for the iPad I think they should

01:08:47 ◼   ► continue expanding it because it's got a lot of brand cachet for them now because

01:08:51 ◼   ► it's also theirs. That's Apple's. You know, we talked about emoji earlier, right? Animoji

01:08:55 ◼   ► is Apple's. And you're going to see Android device makers trying to do this.

01:09:00 ◼   ► My question is, if we get 3D on the iPad, how does it work? In the sense, do we get

01:09:05 ◼   ► one TrueDepth camera system that works in both orientations and it's got like a wider

01:09:11 ◼   ► angle or do we get two cameras, one on each side?

01:09:14 ◼   ► No, one. I think it's one camera and they've worked out how to do it because two cameras

01:09:19 ◼   ► is terrible because then don't you need four?

01:09:21 ◼   ► I think it's one. I think it's one and it's got a wider angle and it works in landscape.

01:09:25 ◼   ► It has to be one or it's four, right? Because you'd need one on every single side.

01:09:30 ◼   ► So all orientations, you have to affix the orientation problem.

01:09:34 ◼   ► So, which I expect that they will have.

01:09:37 ◼   ► A new stocks app. Don't understand why...

01:09:40 ◼   ► Bitcoin, man! Don't you want to check the Bitcoins?

01:09:44 ◼   ► That was the only thing I was thinking about, right? And I was expecting Marc to say it.

01:09:48 ◼   ► But adding cryptocurrency support to the stocks app was the only thing that I can assume they're doing because why would you make a new stock app?

01:09:56 ◼   ► It's pretty iOS 70 in there. I don't know.

01:09:59 ◼   ► Yeah, but like who's using it that really needs it? Like don't you just get a good app?

01:10:05 ◼   ► I figure it's for cryptocurrency. It's cryptocurrency. It's gotta be, man. It's gotta be.

01:10:11 ◼   ► In Silicon Valley, of course they're all trading cryptocurrency.

01:10:15 ◼   ► right like it'll be sad when all that goes away we'll see more options to do

01:10:21 ◼   ► not disturb great I want those I don't know what they are I don't care I just

01:10:25 ◼   ► want them multiplayer AR games is interesting I don't really know what

01:10:30 ◼   ► that would look like yeah I guess multiple devices all sharing in a space

01:10:33 ◼   ► and there's a dinosaur you know like that could be cool right like multiple

01:10:36 ◼   ► got it we do remember 2013 they have the car racing demo that opened WDC we

01:10:44 ◼   ► - Do we all remember this?

01:10:45 ◼   ► - Anki Drive.

01:10:47 ◼   ► - What if for 2018, to celebrate the five year anniversary

01:10:50 ◼   ► of whatever that was, it's just some people on stage

01:10:54 ◼   ► with iPads pointing them at the floor

01:10:56 ◼   ► and the cars are now inside the AR app.

01:10:59 ◼   ► - What if, I'm gonna double that,

01:11:01 ◼   ► what if there's people on stage,

01:11:05 ◼   ► the same people from five years ago,

01:11:07 ◼   ► and in AR they relive that demo fail on stage.

01:11:12 ◼   ► They look at the old demo.

01:11:17 ◼   ► I'm going to go in a different direction with my what if.

01:11:20 ◼   ► What if the multiplayer AR is built into the stocks app and we can all simultaneously look

01:11:26 ◼   ► at how Bitcoin is crashing and just walk around the chart ourselves?

01:11:30 ◼   ► That's really good.

01:11:31 ◼   ► That's really sad.

01:11:33 ◼   ► So there's many options here.

01:11:35 ◼   ► And also the last thing that Mark reports as a feature for iOS 12 is deeper integration

01:11:44 ◼   ► for Siri in search.

01:11:45 ◼   ► I mean, okay, so is this Siri in Spotlight, which means you can text to Siri?

01:11:50 ◼   ► That sounds like it.

01:11:51 ◼   ► I know that you like that.

01:11:53 ◼   ► I know you want that.

01:11:54 ◼   ► You set up your whole Ruhr-Gorbog machine to get that working.

01:11:58 ◼   ► Yeah, so that's iOS 12, I guess, in a nutshell, what we know.

01:12:03 ◼   ► At what point, back up a second.

01:12:04 ◼   ► At what point does Spotlight just become Siri search?

01:12:08 ◼   ► - Yeah. - Like?

01:12:09 ◼   ► - Yeah. - Now?

01:12:10 ◼   ► - I feel like now it should be.

01:12:12 ◼   ► - The only difference is I type to one

01:12:13 ◼   ► and speak to the other and that's a stupid distinction.

01:12:15 ◼   ► Like it just, it feels like, like even on the Mac,

01:12:17 ◼   ► like in my upper right hand corner,

01:12:19 ◼   ► I've got my username, I have a little Spotlight,

01:12:22 ◼   ► magnifying glass, I have a little Siri thing,

01:12:25 ◼   ► like those really should just be one thing.

01:12:29 ◼   ► And it feels like they're pushing towards that,

01:12:31 ◼   ► so maybe that's what this is.

01:12:32 ◼   ► Maybe it is just kind of becoming one.

01:12:35 ◼   ► Yeah, I feel like that has to happen eventually, because especially when type

01:12:40 ◼   ► to Siri exists, because type like them, what's the difference?

01:12:43 ◼   ► Right. Like it just gets so messy.

01:12:45 ◼   ► And Spotlight, Spotlight is not a brand that needs to exist anymore.

01:12:50 ◼   ► Right. Siri is a stronger brand.

01:12:52 ◼   ► You may as well just switch over to the other one.

01:12:55 ◼   ► Yeah. All right.

01:12:56 ◼   ► So as well as this, as well as the stuff that is in Mark

01:13:00 ◼   ► and reported on the stuff that is out for iOS 12 to move on to another year

01:13:05 ◼   ► and also talking about the new kind of new idea what Apple is trying to do here

01:13:11 ◼   ► what they're trying to achieve with this but before we get to that let me talk to

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01:15:32 ◼   ► OK, so as well as the things that are in iOS 12,

01:15:38 ◼   ► these are some of the things that have been moved.

01:15:40 ◼   ► A redesigned home screen.

01:15:42 ◼   ► So that is probably going to go out for iOS 13, probably

01:15:47 ◼   ► redesigned CarPlay.

01:15:50 ◼   ► revamped photos app and big enhancements for the iPad will not occur until 2019.

01:15:57 ◼   ► Some of these include the ability to run several windows in one application in a tab structure

01:16:04 ◼   ► like on Mac OS or to have two screens of the same app side by side and also new Apple pencil

01:16:11 ◼   ► features.

01:16:12 ◼   ► Federico, what do you think about the fact that we may not see iPad features until 2019?

01:16:16 ◼   ► I think we, this, I was sort of expecting it and I'm sad, but if it's, you know, the

01:16:25 ◼   ► kind of year that we just need to wait and, you know, cross our fingers because the, it

01:16:30 ◼   ► means that iOS will be more stable, will be faster, will be like a better experience for

01:16:36 ◼   ► everybody.

01:16:37 ◼   ► We can, we can suffer through this together, I think, and it's going to be fine.

01:16:42 ◼   ► It's going to be better next year.

01:16:43 ◼   ► I think it's necessary.

01:16:45 ◼   ► At this point I wouldn't want to... like this is not ideal for me, this is not what I wanted,

01:16:52 ◼   ► but I also want to see people not be upset with iOS 11, with bugs and with crashes and

01:17:00 ◼   ► with UI glitches. So I don't like it, I'm not happy, but I will be if Apple's strategy

01:17:09 ◼   ► works out. So, what can I say, I'm not ecstatic about this, Myke. But if it means that, you

01:17:18 ◼   ► know, in 2019 everybody's happier and every iPad works better and is faster, then so be

01:17:26 ◼   ► it. That's my takeaway, I guess. I mean, yeah.

01:17:32 ◼   ► So here's my thinking on this. I was pretty much already expecting that like big iPad

01:17:37 ◼   ► features were going to come every two years now because that's kind of been a

01:17:41 ◼   ► trend like it happened once and then there was two years and it happened again

01:17:45 ◼   ► and my expectation would be that's what we would see and I don't mind this so

01:17:50 ◼   ► much as long as the features get revised upon and fixed where they need to be

01:17:55 ◼   ► fixed because that didn't really happen in 10 so I hope that in iOS 12 there are

01:17:59 ◼   ► bug fixes and revisions to the stuff that was introduced in 11. It also

01:18:03 ◼   ► it doesn't bother me if the version of iOS that comes next brings with it features that

01:18:09 ◼   ► are useful on the iPad as well. I feel like iOS 10 didn't really have much in it anyway

01:18:15 ◼   ► for anyone. It wasn't actually an incredibly exciting release. It had messages and stuff,

01:18:23 ◼   ► like that was kind of it really. It wasn't a really big iOS release. So as long as the

01:18:29 ◼   ► features that we get and it looks like some of that stuff would have, you know,

01:18:32 ◼   ► good implications for the iPad but the thing that makes me the most excited and

01:18:36 ◼   ► one of the reasons that I'm not concerned about this is the implication

01:18:44 ◼   ► of this iOS and Mac cross-platform development stuff could be really

01:18:49 ◼   ► freaking good for the iPad because the types of interfaces that will work best

01:18:55 ◼   ► on the Mac are bigger screen interfaces. So I believe that if people adopt this,

01:19:02 ◼   ► the iPad will get stronger. iPad software will get stronger because there will be

01:19:07 ◼   ► two types of devices that these applications will work well on, the iPad

01:19:11 ◼   ► and the Mac. And I think that if this is embraced by the community, it will be

01:19:17 ◼   ► good for the iPad. Especially because I think like if this framework, whatever

01:19:24 ◼   ► very easy, this technology can inform software design the other way around. Like not just

01:19:30 ◼   ► bringing iPhone apps to the Mac, but bringing some of the Mac features and the Mac paradigms

01:19:35 ◼   ► to the iPad, for example. Because now you have a shared system to make one app that

01:19:41 ◼   ► works everywhere. And as you say, it's obvious to imagine that, you know, some developers

01:19:49 ◼   ► will are going to make iPad apps that run on a Mac and iPad apps will get better in

01:19:56 ◼   ► return because now you have this developer community that can work together with these

01:20:01 ◼   ► two platforms. And so this rumor, for example, that the iPad is gaining the tabbed feature

01:20:10 ◼   ► from Sierra, I think, and also it's gaining the split view for a single app like Safari

01:20:17 ◼   ► already has one for example, that's great and that's the kind of feature that you see

01:20:21 ◼   ► on a Mac first and it makes sense for the iPad, especially the big models because it's

01:20:26 ◼   ► also a big screen.

01:20:28 ◼   ► And so instead of making fun of, "Oh, now I'm going to see Instagram on the, you know,

01:20:32 ◼   ► the tiny Instagram window on my big Mac," I think it's more, I think it's more productive

01:20:39 ◼   ► to imagine, "Can we see iPad apps be on a Mac but can we also see Mac developers making

01:20:46 ◼   ► iPad software that we could not have seen unless Apple made this kind of framework.

01:20:54 ◼   ► So I think it's going to be a fun couple of years. Even if this one, people like you and

01:20:59 ◼   ► I, Myke, maybe we don't necessarily care so much about Marzipan and bug fixes and performance

01:21:10 ◼   ► improvements are going to be fine, but it's not like, "Oh my God, we're getting bug fixes."

01:21:16 ◼   ► not that kind of mindset, but I think 2019, if this strategy plays out well for Apple,

01:21:22 ◼   ► it's going to be really funny for the iPad. I also wonder, and I wanted to ask you guys

01:21:28 ◼   ► about this, do we really think that Apple is not going to have at least like six to

01:21:35 ◼   ► seven features about iOS 12 to show off at WWDC? Because that would be strange.

01:21:41 ◼   ► Well, we got stocks

01:21:43 ◼   ► Well the ones that I've read they are those right do not disturb multiplayer AI

01:21:49 ◼   ► AR games Siri search animoji digital health like that's there your features and then like

01:21:56 ◼   ► Battery stuff bug fixes, you know, like that's what they'll show and

01:22:02 ◼   ► They your features and they can just make those seem like more important than they are or whatever

01:22:07 ◼   ► But they're so far

01:22:09 ◼   ► Like there only needs to be one of those things that they spend a lot of time on and then that becomes the big feature like

01:22:14 ◼   ► Messages what so far it seems like my first prediction that Apple is gonna have like a big focus on speed and stability

01:22:21 ◼   ► It's pretty much locked and it seems like I'm gonna I'm gonna yeah, I think I'm gonna win that point still thinking about it

01:22:27 ◼   ► Yeah, just winning a point doesn't win you the year though. Don't forget that one

01:22:32 ◼   ► So to do all of this this this new restructuring comes along with some internal changes at Apple apparently

01:22:38 ◼   ► developers will and engineers will now be thinking of a focus on two years of updates rather than focusing on one year at a time

01:22:46 ◼   ► with the

01:22:47 ◼   ► Thinking being that if you have one set of features that you're going to implement over a two year period

01:22:52 ◼   ► You can hold back the stuff that won't work and bring forward the stuff that will work. Apparently this will give

01:22:58 ◼   ► Apples engineers more time to refine and polish and make sure that the features that they are shipping are the right ones. I mean my

01:23:05 ◼   ► Thinking on that is like doesn't it just cause the same problem?

01:23:08 ◼   ► Like what's one year in two years if you're still working on a defined structure of releasing

01:23:13 ◼   ► But I'm assuming that this will help at least some

01:23:16 ◼   ► But if you have two two years sets of features and you get to the end of the second year and then all done

01:23:21 ◼   ► Does it not just mean that you're gonna have bugs at every second year?

01:23:24 ◼   ► I don't know if, I mean, I would be keen to see if this actually goes about fixing anything,

01:23:29 ◼   ► or if all it does is just pushes the problems to the second year.

01:23:32 ◼   ► But maybe that's TikTok, right? I don't know. I don't know enough about software development.

01:23:38 ◼   ► I mean, there's the idea that work will expand to take the time given. So they could end up there.

01:23:44 ◼   ► The way I choose to read it is like from an optimistic standpoint, that they're giving

01:23:52 ◼   ► themselves flexibility.

01:23:56 ◼   ► If they hit that internal deadline and they say, "Hey, this needs more time," they

01:24:01 ◼   ► now feel like they can give it more time.

01:24:04 ◼   ► And of course, things have slipped in the past, there have been reports of that, but

01:24:08 ◼   ► this feels like, organization-wide, what I'm hoping for is the freedom to say either mid-cycle,

01:24:15 ◼   ► "Hey, this needs more time," or what was really more interesting to me, I think, is

01:24:21 ◼   ► does this mean in the future? If the two year cycle becomes the new normal, what could they

01:24:26 ◼   ► do with two years of time that was never possible with one year?

01:24:31 ◼   ► Oh, that is really interesting to me. If like what you start on something in July and you

01:24:39 ◼   ► know it's going to be a two year thing. Yeah. And that's very interesting. I hadn't thought

01:24:44 ◼   ► that I liked that. I liked that thought a lot. And I guess one of the big things is

01:24:48 ◼   ► that it changes the corporate culture internally where people don't have to be super nervous

01:24:53 ◼   ► and freaking out that their thing isn't ready for a year when it's totally fine now to make

01:24:57 ◼   ► it every two years. Right? Like that, I'm sure that helps a lot. And I guess this is

01:25:01 ◼   ► communicated in the apparent code names. iOS 12 is code name peace. Uh, Mac OS 10.14 is

01:25:09 ◼   ► code name Liberty. And Mac OS may be bringing with it a home app and an Apple podcast app

01:25:16 ◼   ► probably because of Project Marspan.

01:25:18 ◼   ► They should have just named them,

01:25:19 ◼   ► "We don't hate our engineers anymore."

01:25:22 ◼   ► That could have been also a good name.

01:25:25 ◼   ► Yeah, that seems to reflect the mood at Apple.

01:25:29 ◼   ► iOS 12 underworked, and Mac OS 10.14--

01:25:33 ◼   ► Stressed out.

01:25:34 ◼   ► There's still time.

01:25:35 ◼   ► The two guys working on Mac OS have a little bit of a break.

01:25:38 ◼   ► I'm just kidding.

01:25:39 ◼   ► I know there's more than two people.

01:25:41 ◼   ► So talking about this Project Marspan deal,

01:25:44 ◼   ► Apple will need some sort of like Halo project, say, look, we brought over

01:25:48 ◼   ► Apple podcast or home, or I think what a lot of people really want is Apple news.

01:25:52 ◼   ► Like Apple news is this sleeper hit we never talk about, but tons of people use

01:25:55 ◼   ► it.

01:25:55 ◼   ► They need to get on stage with this.

01:25:58 ◼   ► And I think they need, like, this is this iOS code base and it's written in Swift

01:26:03 ◼   ► and we moved it to Mac OS via this new project workflow Xcode magic that we now

01:26:12 ◼   ► have and it took us this much time and we need to do these sorts of things.

01:26:17 ◼   ► They did that with the Intel transition very very well. They did it moving from

01:26:23 ◼   ► carbon to cocoa very well and so I think that we will see Apple spend time on

01:26:27 ◼   ► stage probably in the keynote but most definitely in the state of the Union

01:26:32 ◼   ► which is sort of like the internal keynote like you can watch it on the

01:26:36 ◼   ► website but it's not what most people see it's it's nerdier and more of the

01:26:40 ◼   ► details. So I think they could use one of these projects home

01:26:44 ◼   ► Apple podcasts or Apple news to say look, we did it with this

01:26:48 ◼   ► project. This is how long it took. These are the things we

01:26:50 ◼   ► ran into as an example. And I think that the code names if

01:26:55 ◼   ► they're accurate or hilarious, like I was still codenamed

01:26:59 ◼   ► piece, like people want their iPads and iPhones to be more

01:27:01 ◼   ► stable. But also like Mac OS nickname being Liberty is really

01:27:05 ◼   ► funny to me like you are, you are sort of freeing the Mac up

01:27:09 ◼   ► to do more and to your point earlier building those bridges for Mac and iOS

01:27:17 ◼   ► especially iPad developers to to bring their apps back and forth like if this

01:27:22 ◼   ► works and I think it I think it will like this is great like slowing down iOS

01:27:30 ◼   ► development internally this year being a little bit of a breather because the

01:27:35 ◼   ► like let's think about the alternative timeline for a second and I'm talking

01:27:38 ◼   ► lot I'm sorry but the alternative timeline is iOS 12 gets a new carplay a

01:27:43 ◼   ► new home screen a new photos app whatever all that means who knows and

01:27:50 ◼   ► project marzipan is real like developers are going to struggle in that timeline

01:27:58 ◼   ► to be ready for the fall and I think what happens there in that timeline is

01:28:04 ◼   ► that the cross-platform stuff to get an iOS app set up on the Mac or vice versa

01:28:08 ◼   ► versa, that gets pushed down the road for a lot of developers.

01:28:12 ◼   ► But if iOS 12 and, by extension, Mac OS 10.14 are smaller releases, and the big developer

01:28:20 ◼   ► push is this cross-platform stuff, developers may be more likely to adopt it earlier, right?

01:28:26 ◼   ► Because they're not running around having to rewrite a bunch of stuff because a bunch

01:28:30 ◼   ► of APIs changed in the photo system.

01:28:32 ◼   ► Or they have to redo all their icons, or widgets are a thing now, they all need widgets.

01:28:37 ◼   ► it is, if all that's not present, my guess is that if the stocks app is redesigned, that

01:28:42 ◼   ► doesn't affect most third party developers day to day.

01:28:44 ◼   ► Like they're not going to be rewinding the apps because the stock app is different.

01:28:47 ◼   ► Well you never know.

01:28:49 ◼   ► What if it generates the sixth new design language?

01:28:51 ◼   ► Yeah, it definitely could.

01:28:54 ◼   ► And so maybe this year we'll see third party developers move into this cross platform stuff

01:29:00 ◼   ► earlier than they would have otherwise.

01:29:02 ◼   ► And that is a huge win for all three platforms.

01:29:04 ◼   ► big for the iPhone, but the iPad and the Mac in particular have the most to benefit from

01:29:08 ◼   ► each other. And that is someone who uses all three like I'm super pumped for this. Like

01:29:13 ◼   ► I am today sitting here in mid February. I am more excited about this WWDC than I think

01:29:20 ◼   ► I've been in a long time this early. Because if Gurman is right about all this stuff, because

01:29:24 ◼   ► because it means that my Mac and my iPad potentially could both be a lot better in the in their

01:29:31 ◼   ► in their app ecosystems. There's so much stuff that's on my phone that's just on my phone.

01:29:36 ◼   ► The possibilities are great.

01:29:38 ◼   ► I'm very intrigued, but I'm assuming that because you are a heavy Mac user, it is even

01:29:45 ◼   ► more exciting to you as a possibility, right? Because it means a lot for the Mac from an

01:29:52 ◼   ► app development perspective.

01:29:53 ◼   ► And it puts to bed, at least for a few more years, the narrative that the Mac is dead,

01:30:00 ◼   ► it's not. And I think Apple if that was not that that was the case, right? Like, so say

01:30:08 ◼   ► that. So say that this comes out. It's a one way bridge. It's you can put your Mac apps

01:30:12 ◼   ► to iOS because the Mac is a sinking ship like get out, then I will be very sad and our WWDC

01:30:19 ◼   ► show is just gonna be me weeping into the microphone. But this seems to be a bridge

01:30:24 ◼   ► in both directions. So Mac developers can get an iOS easier, just as importantly, but

01:30:29 ◼   ► more exciting for me, iOS developers can come to the Mac more easily.

01:30:33 ◼   ► And if that's the case, and all the reporting says that it is, then the Mac users should

01:30:37 ◼   ► be excited about it.

01:30:40 ◼   ► I think something that could be taken from it, and it depends on how it's presented,

01:30:44 ◼   ► is that dedicated Mac development is dead.

01:30:47 ◼   ► I think that might be a negative take to have from it, but…

01:30:51 ◼   ► I think it may be eventually, but I think…

01:30:53 ◼   ► So my guess is take something like a really complicated Mac app, like Logic, and that's

01:30:59 ◼   ► internal to Apple, but it's the first complicated Mac app that came to mind.

01:31:03 ◼   ► This may not give developers of Mac apps like that the tools to get on iOS quite yet.

01:31:09 ◼   ► I don't think so.

01:31:10 ◼   ► And even as powerful as the iPad and iPhone are, they're not going to meet pro Mac hardware

01:31:16 ◼   ► and power for a while to come.

01:31:18 ◼   ► So I still think low levels, not low level,

01:31:22 ◼   ► but simpler apps, I'm not a developer, so forgive me,

01:31:24 ◼   ► but apps that aren't really tied to the hardware

01:31:28 ◼   ► and really pushing my iMac Pro,

01:31:30 ◼   ► all those apps, it would be fine to run on an iOS platform.

01:31:35 ◼   ► But there's still gonna be some stuff

01:31:38 ◼   ► that's reserved for the Mac.

01:31:39 ◼   ► Just like there's some stuff

01:31:40 ◼   ► that's gonna be reserved for iOS.

01:31:42 ◼   ► Really good drawing apps with pencil support

01:31:44 ◼   ► aren't gonna make the move to the Mac

01:31:45 ◼   ► 'cause the Mac doesn't have pencil support.

01:31:47 ◼   ► And there are going to be things that each platform is

01:31:49 ◼   ► better at than the other.

01:31:51 ◼   ► But that whole middle 80% of the Venn diagram that overlaps,

01:31:55 ◼   ► that's where all the exciting stuff is going to happen.

01:31:57 ◼   ► I really hope that this also means

01:31:59 ◼   ► that we might get the ability to connect a mouse to our iPads.

01:32:02 ◼   ► There are just times-- there are just times when I would really

01:32:05 ◼   ► love one, like doing some really intensive Google Sheets stuff.

01:32:09 ◼   ► I would love to be able to connect a mouse to my iPad.

01:32:11 ◼   ► It'd be awesome.

01:32:12 ◼   ► And who knows?

01:32:12 ◼   ► I mean, in my mind, this breaks the damn wide open

01:32:16 ◼   ► for things that Apple is willing to do.

01:32:19 ◼   ► Because if you had brought this up six years ago,

01:32:23 ◼   ► the iPad's kind of getting up and running,

01:32:25 ◼   ► the first one's selling really well,

01:32:26 ◼   ► the iPad 2 is a big success.

01:32:28 ◼   ► And you had said, hey, Mac and iPad development

01:32:31 ◼   ► are gonna merge somehow.

01:32:34 ◼   ► People would have just laughed you out of the room

01:32:36 ◼   ► because they were so different from each other.

01:32:38 ◼   ► And now that's not the case with the pencil and the keyboard

01:32:41 ◼   ► and so like, who knows?

01:32:42 ◼   ► You may get a mouse one day.

01:32:43 ◼   ► This means anything is possible.

01:32:45 ◼   ► So on that note, I think we should wrap up.

01:32:47 ◼   ► I'm going to say before I hand over

01:32:49 ◼   ► to Stephen to do the official outro for the episode,

01:32:52 ◼   ► please buy our t-shirt.

01:32:53 ◼   ► There are links in our show notes.

01:32:54 ◼   ► It's over at Cotton Bureau.

01:32:56 ◼   ► It's called the Tiny Head Tee.

01:32:57 ◼   ► We've got images in the show notes.

01:32:59 ◼   ► We have links in the show notes.

01:33:00 ◼   ► Go and buy the t-shirt.

01:33:02 ◼   ► If you want to find show notes this week,

01:33:04 ◼   ► fire up your web browser of choice

01:33:07 ◼   ► to relay.fm/connected/180.

01:33:11 ◼   ► All those links are there.

01:33:12 ◼   ► You can get in touch with us there as well.

01:33:14 ◼   ► can send us an email or of course you can find us on what's left of Twitter. Myke is

01:33:19 ◼   ► there as I-M-Y-K-E. I don't know. It's still there. They also have good quarterly results.

01:33:26 ◼   ► Anyways, a lot of quarterly results last week on download so I'm just thinking about numbers

01:33:29 ◼   ► all the time. Myke is on Twitter as I-Myke-I-M-Y-K-E and he is a host of a whole bunch of shows

01:33:36 ◼   ► here on Relay FM and he has a YouTube channel at Myke Hurley. It's pretty good. You should

01:33:41 ◼   ► Go check it out.

01:33:43 ◼   ► Federico writes maxstories.net.

01:33:46 ◼   ► It's a wonderful website.

01:33:47 ◼   ► They have an Apple History column each month

01:33:48 ◼   ► that I just love.

01:33:49 ◼   ► It's just really, really good.

01:33:50 ◼   ► - Yeah, I'm gonna fire that guy.

01:33:51 ◼   ► I don't like it anymore. - No!

01:33:53 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:33:54 ◼   ► Oh no.

01:33:55 ◼   ► You can find him on Twitter @viti, V-I-T-I-C-C-I,

01:33:59 ◼   ► and you can find me @ismh on Twitter,

01:34:03 ◼   ► and 512pixels.net, and 512 pixels on YouTube.

01:34:08 ◼   ► Like Myke said, go check out the shirt.

01:34:10 ◼   ► It's really awesome.

01:34:11 ◼   ► I ordered one in blue and I'm very, very excited about it.

01:34:15 ◼   ► I'd like to thank our sponsors this week,

01:34:17 ◼   ► SaneBox, Anchor, and Zola, go check them out.

01:34:20 ◼   ► And until next week, guys, say goodbye.

01:34:24 ◼   ► (speaking in foreign language)

01:34:25 ◼   ► - Goodbye.

01:34:26 ◼   ► - Adios.