0:00:00[Music]
0:00:05from Relay FM this is Connected episode 175 today's show
0:00:10is sponsored by Linode Squarespace and MissionU my name
0:00:14is Myke Hurley I am joined by Federico Vittucci ciao Federico
0:00:18hey Myke and Steven Hackett hello Steven Hackett
0:00:22hey it's good to be back with you so much happened
0:00:25during our time away, which is very rare
0:00:30that huge technology news occurs during our time away,
0:00:35but it did, and most of it's so old now
0:00:38that we're not even really gonna bother talking about it.
0:00:40So we have a brand new show full of new stuff,
0:00:44no old stuff, only new stuff.
0:00:46That's what you get from Connected.
0:00:47- We do have two points of follow up.
0:00:48It's not completely-- - But they're not, you know,
0:00:49we're not gonna start talking about Spectre or anything,
0:00:53that great James Bond movie that everyone's talking about.
0:00:56Is that a good James Bond movie?
0:00:58I don't know, I haven't seen it.
0:01:00I never watched a James Bond movie either.
0:01:02Oh, okay, I don't need to go into that.
0:01:05I've seen every single James Bond movie
0:01:06and love all of them, I just haven't for some reason
0:01:08seen Spectre yet.
0:01:09I know, there is one, like an old one from the 90s,
0:01:14maybe from the early 2000s, with a song by Madonna, I think.
0:01:19Die Another Day.
0:01:20Yeah.
0:01:21You've seen that one?
0:01:22know that song. Okay. I think. Is that it? You just know the song? That's a good story.
0:01:27That's my knowledge about Dink Bond. It's the Madonna song. Yeah. I mean there
0:01:32are definitely other James Bond themes that you know, like because some of them
0:01:37are very very popular classic all-time songs. Like for example "Live and Let Die"
0:01:42by Wings. Paul McCartney and Wings. Is it? "Live and Let Die" that one? Yes. Okay.
0:01:50So, like, that's about the James Bond movie Live and Let It Die.
0:01:54Oh, really? Okay.
0:01:55The songs are always named after the movie, with a couple of exceptions. We don't need
0:02:00to go into this, like, we're good. We're good. We're good.
0:02:04You're the one that keeps going further down this trail.
0:02:06Well, because I said a couple of things, and then I felt like I needed...
0:02:10It was interesting.
0:02:11...like I know enough that I needed to clarify some of the edge cases. Like, you know, for
0:02:16For example, the song for Casino Royale, I believe is called "You Know My Name" which
0:02:22is why the guy from Soundgarden, Chris something?
0:02:26But like that was, you know, so that was an except.
0:02:29Anyway, let's follow up.
0:02:30Yes.
0:02:31Okay.
0:02:32We're going to start with some very important follow up.
0:02:35Connected was named a runner up in the Best Tech Podcast category in the 2017 Upgradies,
0:02:44along with a show called Canvas that Federico you do with Fraser Spears, that's a really
0:02:48great show.
0:02:49So congratulations to us, I guess is what I'm saying.
0:02:51That's how I'm starting our 2018.
0:02:53Self congratulations.
0:02:54Yep, I was part of the voting committee and didn't win.
0:02:59I don't want to ever give myself an upgradey.
0:03:01That's not a thing I ever really want to do.
0:03:05Connected scored very, very highly with the upgradeians.
0:03:10And then there's always this fun thing where like, upgrade never scores very highly.
0:03:14And it's like, well, let's just hope that everyone's assuming not to vote for that show.
0:03:19It's a very, but the upgrade is for great.
0:03:22If you haven't listened to the upgrade is it is an annual award show that me and Jason
0:03:25do on upgrade is a great episode.
0:03:27I was very proud of it.
0:03:28You should do it.
0:03:30It's good.
0:03:32$29 battery placements underway.
0:03:34So this is one of those stories that broke during our break.
0:03:40We did, last episode, a week ago, was our 2017 in review, and we actually recorded that
0:03:48before Christmas, and we had to scramble to fix the battery replacement section of the
0:03:53show.
0:03:54No, don't let people know!
0:03:55Don't let people know!
0:03:56Well, you can edit this out if you don't want to.
0:03:57No, everyone just thinks that we were so succinct about it, right?
0:04:02Yeah.
0:04:03Shh, don't tell them.
0:04:07But now we are, well not us, Apple Store employees are deep in the trenches of replacing batteries.
0:04:15This is the real test for the connected crew is we are actually the ones replacing those
0:04:20batteries.
0:04:21I was at my Apple Store basically I think December 30th or something right at the very
0:04:26end of the year and then I had to go back yesterday and they are just completely swamped.
0:04:31We've gotten some emails and some follow up from people who work in Apple retail or have
0:04:36to get their batteries replaced.
0:04:37And basically, no stores have appointments.
0:04:40Very few stores have batteries.
0:04:42How they seem to be doing it is if you make an appointment
0:04:46and go in and they don't have the part,
0:04:48your name gets put on a list.
0:04:50And then when a battery becomes available to you,
0:04:53once that part of the list gets finally reached,
0:04:56then they give you a call.
0:04:57And you can come back in and get it done.
0:04:59But if you have a phone that you think is affected by this,
0:05:02if you have a 6, a 6S, an SE, or a 7,
0:05:07and you want this to be dealt with,
0:05:10I think patience is gonna be the name of the game.
0:05:12I think that maybe don't go in this week or next week,
0:05:15like give 'em some time,
0:05:17because it seems really hectic in Apple stores.
0:05:21I've actually kind of been keeping tabs
0:05:22on iPhone appointments at my store
0:05:23over the last couple days preparing for the show,
0:05:25and they have no appointments.
0:05:26Like it's just really, really busy.
0:05:29So I guess our thoughts and prayers
0:05:31go out to iPhone technicians everywhere.
0:05:34- That'd be a difficult time.
0:05:35- It is a difficult time.
0:05:36- I am wondering, why are you visiting Apple Store
0:05:38so frequently?
0:05:40- Yeah, that's what I wanted to know too.
0:05:41(laughing)
0:05:42- Part one of that--
0:05:43- Are you taking pictures there?
0:05:45You're taking selfies in front of the Apple Store?
0:05:48- I just go every day and see if they still have
0:05:49a Mac Pro for sale.
0:05:50My first visit at the end of the year is a topic
0:05:54later in this episode, and then yesterday I just went in
0:05:57to pick up a watch band, so nothing nefarious.
0:06:01I went to an Apple store yesterday.
0:06:03- Oh yeah, I didn't see you there.
0:06:06We used to miss each other.
0:06:07- We just passed each other in the revolving door.
0:06:11I think this is a funny story.
0:06:13I don't know if this is a funny story,
0:06:15but I went to the ophthalmologist yesterday
0:06:17and I had to have my eyes looked at
0:06:21and they dilated my pupils, right?
0:06:23Do that thing where they drop the drops in.
0:06:26- That's awful.
0:06:26- For whatever reason, it was very difficult
0:06:30for them to dilate my pupils and they'd put a lot of drops in my eyes before it would
0:06:36work. Now obviously the knock-on effect of that is like my pupils are significantly dilated.
0:06:43I was out in town, I actually had dinner with the wonderful Mr David Sparks from MacPowUsers
0:06:47who was in London. So I had some hours in between and I decided that I wanted to surprise
0:06:54is
0:07:08she knows or a bunch of friends that she knows have iPhone 10s and she wants the camera like
0:07:12she is she was unhappy with her Instagram game. So I decided that I would surprise her
0:07:18by buying an iPhone. But the problem was I had to buy this iPhone with my pupils severely
0:07:23dilated. I couldn't see my iPhone. So I was bought I was pre ordering. So my pupils are
0:07:31so dilated I couldn't read the text on my iPhone anymore. What is what did you buy?
0:07:36I bought the right one, which was a marvel of what must be incredibly good app design
0:07:43from the Apple Store app. But I figured I had to pre-order it and go pick it up, right?
0:07:47Because I had figured there'd still be a line, right? Like there's always lines. But it was
0:07:50just funny to me that I was able to buy this phone, like standing on the sidewalk after
0:07:55I left the ophthalmologist, with like my phone directly in front of my face. Like I had it
0:08:03like right in front of my face. I have my glasses off like in my hands kind of like
0:08:07a person who couldn't like could barely see it was a whole big scene. And I actually I
0:08:14this is not a thing that I will necessarily think is something I want to share with the
0:08:18world but I'm going to send the two of you a picture that I took of myself. So with my
0:08:23pupils severely dilated. So you can see so you're able to see what I'm dealing with.
0:08:29you'll need to zoom in on this picture
0:08:31so you can see my eyes.
0:08:32I'm sending it to you in iMessage
0:08:34so you know what I'm dealing with.
0:08:36But I had to ask Steven about AppleCare.
0:08:39And I sent him a text message about AppleCare
0:08:41and I was like, how long after can you buy AppleCare?
0:08:44And the reason was is that he sent me a link
0:08:47and I was like, I need you to tell me
0:08:48because I can't read anything.
0:08:52I can kind of just about make out an iMessage,
0:08:55but having to look through a document
0:08:58on the K base would have been a disaster.
0:09:01But as you can see, my eyes were basically all pupils.
0:09:04- It's like you have two marbles inside your eye.
0:09:06- It was a scene, man.
0:09:09It was a real scene.
0:09:11I couldn't see anything for about three hours.
0:09:13- You should have asked for help.
0:09:14You should have asked, "Doctor, can you please buy me
0:09:16an iPhone?"
0:09:16Please buy iPhone. - Please, just press
0:09:17the buttons, please press the buttons.
0:09:19So yeah, I went there, I went to the Apple store.
0:09:23All the lights were really bright and like,
0:09:25it basically was like I was squinting the whole time.
0:09:28It was a scene.
0:09:29It kind of felt, I mean,
0:09:30I've spoken to a few people about this.
0:09:32It kind of felt like pretty trippy,
0:09:34like I was on something.
0:09:35It was actually, it felt pretty good
0:09:38to have my pupils dilated like that.
0:09:40- I was gonna say it's very unpleasant, but.
0:09:43- You have found your new hobby, Myke.
0:09:45- I actually kind of liked it.
0:09:47- You want a good time?
0:09:49Just put some drops in.
0:09:50- Traversing London, buying computer devices,
0:09:54without being able to see anything.
0:09:55It was a real scene.
0:09:57- This is the worst youth drug trend I've ever heard.
0:10:00- Eye drops.
0:10:01- It's not huffing paint, it's dilating your eyes.
0:10:04- Gotta drop those eyes.
0:10:05All right, so Stephen.
0:10:07- No.
0:10:09- Come on.
0:10:09Come on.
0:10:11You know what this is.
0:10:12You know how this story ends.
0:10:13- Oh, I do, because I can read the document.
0:10:15- No, but you know how this story ends though.
0:10:17You know what I'm saying at the end of it,
0:10:18but give us your best shot.
0:10:20- So where we are in the Google document
0:10:23topic 0 colon 2017 iMac 5k versus iMac Pro parentheses story time with Steven
0:10:31so I guess I have to talk now. I was going to buy a new computer at the end of
0:10:38the year and I so I had a 2015 kind of mid-range i5 iMac 5k and I did a
0:10:50spreadsheet because that's what I do in my life and looking at the base iMac
0:10:53Pro, the 10 core iMac Pro which is what I thought I was gonna buy until I saw that
0:10:57it was like $6,700 and the 2017 regular iMac. So I sat down looked at it all and
0:11:06decided the iMac Pro would be nice but the the loaded 2017 would still be a big
0:11:12upgrade over what I have and that's what I'm going to going to do. So I ordered a
0:11:19I fully loaded 2017 27 inch 5K iMac,
0:11:24like the i7, a terabyte SSD.
0:11:27I added 32 gigs of RAM to it from Mac sales,
0:11:29so I had 40 gigs of RAM.
0:11:31Kind of a ridiculous computer.
0:11:33But what I quickly realized--
0:11:34- Seems like too much RAM.
0:11:35Like I know that people can really use their RAM these days,
0:11:39but that seems like more than you.
0:11:42- 40 gigs is a weird number.
0:11:44- It's a heck of a lot.
0:11:45- But you have the eight and then you add the 32.
0:11:47It was super fast, really nice, but the problem I had with it is that anytime I got near the
0:12:01CPU doing anything, the single fan in the Retina iMac would spin up and it was exceptionally
0:12:09loud, way louder than my i5, and very touchy.
0:12:13I didn't have to be exporting in logic to do this.
0:12:17Like, doing big file copies would do it.
0:12:19Any time I got near the CPU, this thing would spin up.
0:12:23I've spoken to a ton of people with this computer,
0:12:25and some of them say their i7s do this,
0:12:28and a bunch of people like Dan Morin says that they don't.
0:12:31So I don't know-- - Mine doesn't.
0:12:32I mean, I have that machine, right?
0:12:34Like, I have a four gigahertz i7, 16 gigabytes of RAM.
0:12:37I do not have, well, I have the late 2015,
0:12:40so I don't have the most modern one,
0:12:42But it's much and much the same, I think.
0:12:44And I only ever, ever hear the fans
0:12:47when I expect to hear them.
0:12:49That's the only time, like, I'm doing, like,
0:12:51some noise removal or something, right?
0:12:53And then I hear them there.
0:12:54- And that I'm fine with, right?
0:12:56Like, if I'm pushing it, but I was nervous
0:12:58that I'm gonna open a Chrome window
0:13:01while recording a podcast,
0:13:02and this iMac is gonna spin up.
0:13:04So I think that, A, the i7 is more prone to this
0:13:07than the i5 that I had.
0:13:08That's to be expected.
0:13:09But I think there's some variation in these iMacs,
0:13:11and maybe I got one that was particularly touchy or particularly loud.
0:13:15And so I spent several days with it.
0:13:18And, you know, after you do a migration, a lot of stuff happens.
0:13:22Like Dropbox reindexes everything, photos, resyncs everything.
0:13:25Like a lot is going on in the background the first day or two after a migration.
0:13:28It's like, well, let me let this settle down.
0:13:31But it really never got to a place where I was comfortable
0:13:35trusting this machine to be quiet when I'm recording,
0:13:38because that's the whole point of this thing.
0:13:41And in the meantime, having conversations with Jason Snell,
0:13:45the devil on my shoulder, about his bass, iMac Pro,
0:13:49about how it's silent.
0:13:51Even under load, the only difference
0:13:52is the air out the back gets a little warmer.
0:13:55The iMac Pro has two fans.
0:13:57They're much larger.
0:13:58They're much quieter.
0:13:59And they're always spinning, but you can't hear them.
0:14:02And my studio is dead silent, and I cannot hear this thing.
0:14:05Even under load, you'd never really hear it.
0:14:08Oh, this thing, huh?
0:14:10this thing, this iMac Pro in front of me.
0:14:12Touching it right now.
0:14:14- So the way that you fixed your 5K iMac problem
0:14:17was to buy a Mac Pro.
0:14:18- To spend another two grand.
0:14:19- Okay, great.
0:14:20- Spend another two grand, yeah.
0:14:21So yeah, so I turned it, I bought the base iMac Pro.
0:14:25You can walk into an Apple store and buy the base iMac Pro,
0:14:28which I thought you'd have to order it,
0:14:29and I was looking in the app store on my iPhone,
0:14:32and I was like, oh, I can just go walk in and pick it up.
0:14:35So I returned the custom order to the store,
0:14:39I had purchased that one online since it has some custom stuff, returned it to the store
0:14:43which is really nice.
0:14:44You used to not be able to do that.
0:14:45You used to be like, if you bought it online you had to return it online, but now you can
0:14:49mix and match.
0:14:51And so I've been using the iMac Pro since New Years or so, and it is the fastest Mac
0:14:58I've ever owned by far.
0:14:59It is dead quiet, even under like heavy load like rendering 4K video or stabilizing 4K
0:15:08or doing isotope noise cancellation,
0:15:12the thing doesn't make noise.
0:15:14Now, there's been a lot of conversation,
0:15:16including on our friend show, ATP,
0:15:18about the iMac Pro seems to thermal throttle a little bit
0:15:23and maybe Apple has it tuned where they would rather
0:15:26throttle it a touch here and there
0:15:28than have the fan spin up.
0:15:30I'm not sure, I think it'd run a little more headroom
0:15:33where if I am really pushing it and I know I'm pushing it,
0:15:36I wouldn't mind if, you know,
0:15:38It wouldn't be the end of the world if it made some noise, but like the baseline of
0:15:41this machine, like sitting here talking to you all with Skype and Chrome and some IRC
0:15:45app and Slack and Mail and Audio Hijack and iMessage, all this stuff open, it is not making
0:15:51it sound.
0:15:52And that's important to me since I make, you know, podcast files for a living.
0:15:58Now I have a memory and I have yet to find out where I expressed this.
0:16:05I said you would end up buying one of these.
0:16:08- I'm sure you said it on this show.
0:16:09- I'm sure I did.
0:16:10- Because I believe it's the episode you called me,
0:16:13what did you call me?
0:16:14It was very hurtful.
0:16:15The most indecisive person you know,
0:16:18I think is what you called me.
0:16:19- Yeah, something like that.
0:16:20I mean, well, all you're doing really
0:16:22is just giving me more evidence.
0:16:24- It's true.
0:16:25No, it's true.
0:16:26And the--
0:16:28- Okay, so maybe, it's not that you're indecisive.
0:16:30You are just, you are always on the lookout
0:16:33for a better thing, which is not necessarily a bad thing.
0:16:37You demand perfection.
0:16:39- I do.
0:16:40- You didn't get it with the iMac 5K,
0:16:41but now you have an iMac Pro, so I was right.
0:16:44- It was really, you were right.
0:16:45The iMac was really disappointing,
0:16:47because I really, like, it was so much faster than my 2015.
0:16:52It was three grand, as opposed to five for this thing.
0:16:57I really thought it was gonna meet my needs,
0:17:00and my thought was, I talked about this
0:17:02on a Mac Power Users episode, which I sort of ruined
0:17:04the ending of by buying this computer.
0:17:06But what I told David and Katie was,
0:17:08there's a lot of first gen hardware in this thing
0:17:12and it's all new and I wanna kinda see how the dust settles
0:17:14and I wanna see what the Mac Pro looks like.
0:17:16Because to get into an iMac Pro, you're spending five grand.
0:17:21If you go to the cheese grater area,
0:17:22you could buy a Mac Pro for half that.
0:17:25It wasn't a great Mac Pro, but you could upgrade it
0:17:26over time and expand it over time.
0:17:29And I hope that they do that with the new Mac Pro.
0:17:31I hope that you could walk into an Apple store
0:17:33and buy a Mac Pro for 2,500 or three grand.
0:17:36I don't think that's gonna happen,
0:17:37but I would like for it to happen.
0:17:39I just wanted, you know, I felt like,
0:17:41I feel a little bit like buying an iMac Pro now.
0:17:43Like it is meeting my needs and I'm really happy with it.
0:17:46But you are making a very expensive purchase
0:17:49without all the cards on the table,
0:17:51because I fully expect, we're gonna get into our predictions,
0:17:54I fully expect that we will see the Mac Pro teased at WWDC
0:17:58and it'll be out in the, you know, a year from now.
0:18:00follow the same pattern the iMac Pro did.
0:18:02And so if you're a pro Mac user, you
0:18:05are making a decision with limited information.
0:18:07Now, for me, I really like the all-in-one form factor.
0:18:10I don't know-- I honestly do not know what the Mac Pro could
0:18:13offer me that this thing doesn't that
0:18:15would make me want to give up the all-in-one form factor
0:18:17because it's all very nice and neat and tidy,
0:18:20and it looks really good.
0:18:21And I don't have anything under my desk.
0:18:23I don't have cables everywhere.
0:18:25And it's got the display built in.
0:18:27And if you buy a Mac Pro, Apple's
0:18:28going to charge you $1,000 for their new Pro Display,
0:18:31at least.
0:18:32So there is that argument to be made
0:18:35that you're making a purchase without all the information
0:18:38possible.
0:18:40But at the same time, this has already
0:18:43become the favorite Mac I've owned in a long time,
0:18:47because it is so capable.
0:18:49And the other tangible things I care about,
0:18:53like how quiet it is, how nice the speakers are,
0:18:56how nice the screen is. All those things are home runs. So, so far so good in iMac Pro land.
0:19:02So I've spent a lot of time thinking and I mean I have no desire for a iMac Pro.
0:19:09I know people that have got them now, I've heard lots about it. I have no desire for it.
0:19:14I actually think that my next Mac will probably be the next Mac Pro because I
0:19:20I don't really have great desire to upgrade my Mac for like having the
0:19:28coolest Mac anymore right like I used to like how I do with my iOS devices like
0:19:34there's devices that I want to be new and cool what I really want is a machine
0:19:39that I can just make incrementally better over time and that's what a Mac
0:19:45Pro hopefully will be. So I think that all I want is just to be able to upgrade
0:19:51it when I need more performance rather than having to overhaul my entire
0:19:56machine every time. So I would I think prefer a Mac where I
0:20:02can easily upgrade the RAM or maybe even upgrade the GPU every two years rather
0:20:08than upgrading, like rather than buying a brand new iMac every three years.
0:20:13Like, I think that that's what I want.
0:20:15- Yeah, no, I, a lot of that appeals to me.
0:20:21Like I said, it would mean some trade-offs
0:20:23that I'm not sure I wanna make.
0:20:24But the iMac Pro is too far in the other direction.
0:20:26Like, if I wanna upgrade the RAM in this thing,
0:20:28I've gotta take it to an Apple store
0:20:30and beat off all the people trying to get an iPhone battery
0:20:33to have a Mac Genius crack it open and put RAM in it
0:20:36and charge me a fortune.
0:20:38Now, if I keep this machine for three years,
0:20:40at some point I may do that,
0:20:42but I can't upgrade the other stuff.
0:20:45And that is, and Jason, I think Jason is who said this,
0:20:49the iMac Pro is still an iMac.
0:20:52You get all the trade-offs and all the compromises
0:20:54that come with an iMac.
0:20:55Now for me, those compromises are fine for now,
0:20:58but it means certain things.
0:21:00This is a more professional iMac.
0:21:02It is not a Mac Pro.
0:21:04And so if your thought process, Myke,
0:21:07is to buy something and to, over time,
0:21:11invest a little bit more and extend the life of it,
0:21:14then DMACC Pro, if it follows the path we all hope it will,
0:21:17is totally the right answer for you.
0:21:19And it may be for me in a year, I don't know,
0:21:21but for now, this machine is meeting my needs
0:21:24and it's really great.
0:21:26And I'm fine with the base model.
0:21:28It's so much faster than DMACC have ever owned.
0:21:31I'm not sad that I couldn't afford the 10 core.
0:21:34- Let's see how you feel when the 18s start shipping, right?
0:21:38- Yeah, right.
0:21:39(laughing)
0:21:41The other thing, too, is that the base model iMac Pro,
0:21:46it is working in a chassis with cooling
0:21:48that can handle up to an 18 core.
0:21:50I've got the slowest machine designed for this cooling
0:21:53system.
0:21:53Whereas with the iMac--
0:21:54This was your theory for getting this computer, is that-- sorry,
0:21:59I'm spoiling what you're saying.
0:22:01No, it's fine.
0:22:02But the iMac that I had was the fastest, hottest computer
0:22:06designed for its cooling system.
0:22:08And maybe it's outrun that cooling system,
0:22:09and they need to address it.
0:22:11So I feel like this machine inside has headroom that I'm not punishing it, you know, because
0:22:16someone with an 18-core is going to be closer to its thermal envelope than my, you know,
0:22:21little 8-core machine.
0:22:22I feel that that logic is really sound, and I think that's probably why you are happy
0:22:25with this one, right?
0:22:26Like, you are running a machine that is effectively cold for what it can be, right?
0:22:31Like, the guts inside of your iMac Pro are fine for the cooling system, right?
0:22:39It's like a step up from the top tier of the 5k with a bunch of holes in the back.
0:22:45Right? Like, it's fine. It's all good.
0:22:47Alright, let's take our first break and then it's predictions time.
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0:24:25So last year we did our first kind of official predictions at the beginning of the year where
0:24:31we wrote them down and tracked our progress throughout the year and then graded them in
0:24:35our year in review.
0:24:37We all enjoyed that process so much that we have decided that we're going to do it again
0:24:40for this year.
0:24:42So round robin style of course, these are our 2018 predictions.
0:24:47We have some new rules, so there is going to be two rounds of regular picks and then
0:24:52one round of risky picks. If you get a risky pick, you get two points, but if your risky
0:24:59pick is wrong, you lose a regular point. So it's all to play for in the risky picks round.
0:25:05But because there's so many high points, there's a high point situation going on here, we don't
0:25:10want anyone to game it. So the two other co-hosts have to agree that the pick is risky enough
0:25:18to be deemed a risky pick.
0:25:20So like Federica can't walk in and be like,
0:25:22"Oh, my risky pick, maybe a new iPhone next year."
0:25:25(laughing)
0:25:26It's like, well.
0:25:27- Yeah, it's not risky.
0:25:29Not a risky one.
0:25:30- Not a risky one.
0:25:31So we're gonna start off with Steven.
0:25:33- So I said this a little bit earlier,
0:25:36but I think that we will see a tease of the Mac Pro
0:25:41at WWDC with a ship date at the end of this year.
0:25:47So following the same sort of timeline
0:25:50as the 2013 Mac Pro and the iMac Pro.
0:25:54Tease this summer in San Jose,
0:25:57release at the end of the year.
0:25:58- So you're saying, right,
0:26:02that the Mac Pro will ship within 2018.
0:26:05'Cause that's the key part here, right?
0:26:09- Yes.
0:26:10- 'Cause you have to make it in.
0:26:12And I don't know how I feel about that.
0:26:14I think that WWDC will see what we saw with the trash can. I think it's going to be very
0:26:19similar to that, where there's some moody lighting and some images and like super zoomed
0:26:26in and like Phil Schiller says something a little bit crass again and you know, who knows
0:26:32how he's going to step it up but maybe they're going to need to get out the bleep sound for
0:26:36him, who knows. I think that we'll see that. I don't know how I feel about this year's
0:26:44I don't know if that's a done deal.
0:26:46- You think 2019 for the micro?
0:26:48- I think it's possible.
0:26:49I don't necessarily say that I think it's gonna be 2019,
0:26:53but I don't know if we're, 'cause I don't know,
0:26:55I don't think any of us know how long it takes Apple
0:26:59to develop a computer from idea to release.
0:27:03- This will actually be the best indication
0:27:05of that we've ever had.
0:27:07- Exactly. - Because, you know,
0:27:08they always say, we've been working on this for years,
0:27:10we've been dreaming about this for a long time, you know,
0:27:13But we know that whenever the Mac Pro Roundtable was,
0:27:16was that March or something?
0:27:18- It was March or April.
0:27:19- Sometime this spring, they said it was underway,
0:27:23but the belief was that it was just underway.
0:27:25And so, the reason I say this is,
0:27:28I don't think they want to go into 2019
0:27:31without this computer.
0:27:32They want to, even though it's not going to sell
0:27:35a bunch of machines, they've made such a big deal of it,
0:27:38I think they want to get it out
0:27:39so people stop complaining about it.
0:27:41And my guess is--
0:27:42- They still keep talking about it as well, right?
0:27:44Like even in the iMac Pro PR stuff,
0:27:47they're still talking about the Mac Pro.
0:27:49- I think the team that's working on the Mac Pro
0:27:52is probably just like pedal to the metal,
0:27:55have been told you need to get this done quickly.
0:27:59And so I feel pretty good about this.
0:28:01I mean, it definitely could slip,
0:28:02but I feel like this is a thing
0:28:05that I feel comfortable picking.
0:28:07- All right, I'm up next.
0:28:11I think, so Stephen is upset at me because I've made it half myself again in kind of
0:28:16picking two things in one.
0:28:18Yeah, you've blown this one already.
0:28:21No, no, it's fine.
0:28:22I think that there's going to be a bigger iPhone X style phone this year, but it won't
0:28:29have an OLED screen in it.
0:28:31No.
0:28:32Oh, so like the rumor that from a while back, okay.
0:28:36Half point.
0:28:37But the thing is though, you say this, my half points I think was what got me to being tired.
0:28:44That's true, a bunch of half points.
0:28:46I got a bunch of half points. But I do think that there will be an expansion to the iPhone
0:28:5110 line this year, but I don't think that Apple have enough experience with OLED yet to make a
0:28:59really good big phone. And that there is already enough OLED shortages of good OLED screens in the
0:29:05the world and it's probably only gotten worse since the iPhone X that it might be really
0:29:10hard for them to secure enough panels that maybe just pushing it off one more year might
0:29:16be a good thing to do.
0:29:19By the way, I thought about this device, if this device exists I am going to be in a real
0:29:23quandary.
0:29:25If that actually happens, yeah because I always want a bigger phone, right?
0:29:30It's the idea, the whole idea of the Plus Club.
0:29:34I love the OLED screen, right?
0:29:36Like if I had to go, it'd be tricky for me
0:29:38to make that decision, like to go back to LCD,
0:29:43because one of my favorite things about my iPhone now
0:29:47is all of the apps that I have that use the true black,
0:29:50right, like I love it.
0:29:52So like I was, when me and Nadina
0:29:55was setting up her phone yesterday,
0:29:56she uses a bunch of apps that I use,
0:29:58and I was turning all those settings on for her,
0:29:59she's like, "Oh, I really like this."
0:30:00Like it's really nice.
0:30:02and I would be very sad to lose that if I went to a phone that didn't have it again.
0:30:07No, you're going to get the 10+ anyway with the OLED.
0:30:11So this is my prediction, so don't count my point.
0:30:14But like, predictions aren't what I want, right?
0:30:17Like they're just what I think will happen.
0:30:18What I really want is a bigger iPhone X with an OLED screen.
0:30:22Like, that would be incredible.
0:30:24Yeah, I just don't know how Apple announces a new iPhone X
0:30:29And they're like, oh, it has an LCD after praising OLED so heavily.
0:30:34They will say it has one of the best, it has the best LCD screen we have ever made.
0:30:39Right. That's what they'll be like.
0:30:41And I'll say we have this incredible iPhone 10 with a beautiful super retina display.
0:30:45And now we have like this one with the hyper retina display.
0:30:48They just give it, you know, it's just like a new name.
0:30:50And it's just big LCD.
0:30:52I don't know if they could walk that back.
0:30:53I don't know. I wonder if maybe...
0:30:55I don't buy it.
0:30:57I wonder if maybe they could do something like instead of keeping the current iPhone X around
0:31:04and making it cheaper, they sort of remake the iPhone X and make it cheaper because it doesn't have an OLED display.
0:31:12But you know how they...
0:31:1310C, put it in a bunch of different colors.
0:31:16Yeah, basically.
0:31:17That thinking is how you end up with an iPhone 11, which is the new version of the X,
0:31:23and then like an iPhone XS or something, which is two LCD phones and they replace the A+
0:31:31so like that's how you could end up getting there. So we'll see.
0:31:36So I'm up next and I'm going to say that iOS 12 or whatever it's called but the next version
0:31:43of iOS will have a focus on speed and how Apple made it faster. So I think there will be one of
0:31:55the 10 poll features, it'll be on a slide and Apple will specifically call out the fact that
0:32:01iOS 12 they focused on making it faster and making it perform better thanks to various optimizations
0:32:09And I think this will happen sort of to counter the narrative around iOS 11
0:32:14and how problematic it's been for so many people this update cycle,
0:32:18whether it was about the battery or,
0:32:21you know, the fact that Apple was slowing down the older iPhones
0:32:24and even maybe to an extent all these mitigations for Spectre and
0:32:28Meltdown that are sort of making these chips a little slower.
0:32:33But I think they Apple wants to counter this narrative and say,
0:32:38This year's update you're going to want to upgrade because not only do you get new features,
0:32:43not only do you get maybe new design, I'm not going to count new design in my prediction however,
0:32:47and not only do you get new emoji but you get a faster phone. And now I believe this could happen
0:32:54either in a bunch of ways, maybe it could be a series of optimizations for example every single
0:33:02framework is moving to Swift or maybe it's going to feel faster because all new iPhones
0:33:08get the promotion display or maybe the new UI framework which is rumored it'll be so much faster
0:33:15all the animations all the transitions will be faster than before but I believe that Apple wants
0:33:21to call out the fact that they've been working on making iOS faster and feel faster and be faster
0:33:29even from a technical point of view.
0:33:31And I'm going to say that maybe we will also get more
0:33:37settings and options to control the fact that, you know,
0:33:43it's become common knowledge to say if your phone feels slow,
0:33:47just wipe it and restore the operating system.
0:33:50And I don't think that Apple likes that.
0:33:52So maybe we will also see a feature like a built in cash
0:33:56delete option because most of the time this idea of wiping your phone, it goes mostly,
0:34:03it's related to the fact of wiping all the app caches that you have on your device.
0:34:08And so I wonder if maybe there will be new settings to control that aspect without having to do a restore.
0:34:13And I bet that like if they do this some of the focus would be on it's faster for everyone, right?
0:34:20Like no matter how old your phone is, that kind of thing.
0:34:23Yeah.
0:34:25I think it would make sense based upon the narrative, especially over the last few months.
0:34:29I think there's room for them to give users better tools to manage this sort of thing.
0:34:34Like saying, just reinstall iOS and put your stuff back on it.
0:34:40People have to know how to do that.
0:34:43And it's not the easiest process in the world.
0:34:46And so maybe even making that simpler could be useful.
0:34:50But at the very least, I think having some tools to manage things would be good.
0:34:57Alright, we're now entering round two of regular picks, not risky ones.
0:35:05And I think Myke is up first.
0:35:08An Apple Watch with an Always On Display.
0:35:12That's kind of a risky one though.
0:35:13It is.
0:35:14So that feels like a risky pick.
0:35:15It is.
0:35:16I'll tell you why I've gone with this.
0:35:19Okay. If Apple are gonna add any feature to the Apple Watch, this is probably the next one.
0:35:28This should be it. Right? Like, this is what I expect every Apple Watch user will be like,
0:35:34"Oh yeah, now it's way better." Like, how people did with LTE. If you're gonna make a change,
0:35:40this would probably be the change that you would make. So that's why I've gone with it here. I
0:35:46I admit it is a little bit risky, but I'm comfortable with it in just my logic that
0:35:53if they're going to make a big change it would be this.
0:35:55It's either this or a complete redesign of the Apple Watch.
0:36:00Should I add that to your pick?
0:36:02Nope.
0:36:03Please don't do that.
0:36:04Please.
0:36:05No.
0:36:06Please don't.
0:36:07Okay, I mean if I'm getting an "or" then I kind of get an extra pick, but whatever.
0:36:11I think that based upon Apple's trend of the last three or four years, they're more likely
0:36:17I think to add a feature and keep the design the same than they are to redesign and start
0:36:24from scratch again.
0:36:26And I would love to see some kind of always on display in the Apple Watch because I think
0:36:30even my current one could handle it.
0:36:32Like I don't think it would be too killer on a battery that just will never die on me.
0:36:38Like the current Apple Watch battery,
0:36:40I mean I charge mine every day because I just take it off
0:36:42and put it on the charging stand.
0:36:44I never ever get problems.
0:36:46Like I can travel across the globe, right?
0:36:48I can be awake for 24 hours and I have 65% battery life left
0:36:53like this is not a problem anymore.
0:36:57Apple have given themselves so much room now
0:36:59and I genuinely believe that one of the reasons for that
0:37:03is so they can have some kind of always on display.
0:37:06So let me ask you this.
0:37:07Go on. Would you rather have the same Apple Watch design that is thick but has the
0:37:15always on display because it needs the battery so the design cannot change yet?
0:37:19Or would you want a redesigned Apple Watch that is thinner and it's got a new design,
0:37:25new look, but it doesn't have the always on display?
0:37:28Personally, I would prefer the always on display because I am I in a daily usage basis,
0:37:35I have no problem with the Apple Watch's design.
0:37:38Right? Like, it's fine. I'm used to it.
0:37:41Like, I live with it.
0:37:42I would get more personally out of just being able to look at my wrist and see what I need to see
0:37:49rather than having to raise it every single time
0:37:52than I would for having it be a little bit thinner and maybe a little more sleek.
0:37:56Like, just personally from the device.
0:37:58Like, it... because like, if I am... if I want to get the best looking watch,
0:38:02like, Apple's probably never gonna make that.
0:38:04Right, like, no, because I could just go to a watch company and buy a really nice watch.
0:38:09Right, like, it's not, I'm not wearing this so I look the best. Like, because then I,
0:38:14then I have made a fatal flaw in my purchasing. I'm wearing this because of its utility,
0:38:21and anything that makes it more useful to me is a good thing.
0:38:24What would you do in that sense Federico?
0:38:29I'm not sure. I think I would go with the new design because I get the appeal.
0:38:35I get the appeal of the always on display, but honestly raising my wrist, it tends to work 90%
0:38:41of the time. I think there's an overlap between the same people who complain about Face ID not
0:38:48working tend to be the same people who also complain about race, whatever it's called,
0:38:53not working and for me like 90% of the time it works well and it's fine and it's not like
0:38:59I'm constantly looking at the time. Okay but I'm not saying it doesn't work because it works
0:39:04it works all the time for me but I would prefer to not have to do it. Like if I have my hands
0:39:09typing on my keyboard or whatever or like I'm doing something and I want to see the time I
0:39:15would prefer to be able to just look because that's that was what it was like with watches
0:39:19I used to wear. That was what it was like with my pebble, right? Like, I would prefer that.
0:39:24But like, but yeah, it doesn't not work. It actually, it is more reliable for me than the
0:39:29iPhones race to wake. Yeah, I guess it's just not that big of a problem to me and I would very much
0:39:36prefer a new design so to always see something that is new and, you know, so I can show it off
0:39:42and just have something cool and new and, you know, it's been three years, I would rather get
0:39:47the new design personally. Okay I think that those two things I would be very
0:39:53happy with both of them but I just think for me personally I would prefer the
0:39:57always-on. All right Federico it is your pick. All right I think the new Apple
0:40:05streaming service for movies and TV shows actually maybe just movies I don't
0:40:10know but for TV shows I mean will be announced in 2018 and it'll probably be
0:40:16called Apple Video. I think it will have one to two months for free just like it
0:40:24happened for Apple Music but maybe not three months but just maybe one. I'm
0:40:29wondering if maybe there should be a trial of like four to six weeks
0:40:32basically and so I'm not sure if we will see an announcement to WWDC because I
0:40:37don't know if Apple wants to repeat you know kind of the criticism that they saw
0:40:42with the Apple Music announcement at the end of a developer conference. It's a
0:40:46Maybe it'll be a separate event.
0:40:47Maybe it'll be announced in September, I don't know.
0:40:50But anyway, I think we'll see Apple Video
0:40:53with a roster of new TV shows.
0:40:56I've been following the news a lot about this.
0:40:58I've been listening to Upgrade where you always, Myke,
0:41:00have an excellent discussion with Jason about this.
0:41:03- Thank you.
0:41:03- And I think 2018 is the year
0:41:05that we'll get this announcement.
0:41:07And also maybe an option to bundle your subscription
0:41:11with Apple Music.
0:41:12So instead of paying $20 every month,
0:41:15pay like 15 or 16 and you get both services. I'm really excited about this, especially following
0:41:21all the news that we've seen and we read on Variety and other entertainment publications
0:41:27over the past few weeks. I think this should be really interesting to see this year.
0:41:31I think it's very curious that in your pick you have specifically named it. That seems like a...
0:41:38That's your risky part, I think.
0:41:41Yeah, it's a real mic move.
0:41:43Yeah, that is a real mic move. You've really gone for that one.
0:41:46This is gonna be a half point. I really feel it.
0:41:49It's gonna be a half point because I got the name wrong.
0:41:51Everything else, I think you've just hit it on the head. But the naming, I agree that that's
0:41:59probably what they will call it, Apple Video. But I could see, you know what I was gonna say?
0:42:05They could call it Apple Watch. No, they won't call it that.
0:42:08that. They already have that. Facebook have a video platform that they're calling Facebook
0:42:13Watch, which I think is such a short sighted name. Like I think that's such a silly idea.
0:42:18Facebook watches you.
0:42:20But just because there are smart watches now. Like I feel like that is like a namespace
0:42:26which is all taken up. But anyway, yeah, I do agree. I think that it is coming this year
0:42:33and I think that that proposition, what they will offer, you know, a couple of months free,
0:42:38ties this exactly what I did with Apple Music and bundling it I think makes a lot of sense.
0:42:43I reckon we may see something like a real big bundle including iCloud storage space
0:42:49or something when they do that.
0:42:51I think that would be nice.
0:42:52Like you just pay one fee to Apple and it includes a bunch of stuff.
0:42:56That would be good.
0:42:57Yeah.
0:42:58Okay.
0:42:59I think I'm going to make the first iPad related pick.
0:43:03I don't think you guys have yet.
0:43:07And I'm gonna say that the iPad mini will remain stagnant through 2018.
0:43:17No new iPad mini.
0:43:19No updates, no price drops, nothing.
0:43:22Just there.
0:43:23I'm just gonna say no new iPad mini.
0:43:26I don't know about a price drop.
0:43:27I mean, it'd be nice if it did.
0:43:29No new iPad mini hardware.
0:43:32No new iPad mini hardware.
0:43:34So changes to the price or the configuration, like maybe if Apple replaces it with a higher
0:43:41storage option, that doesn't count.
0:43:44There has to be a new model of the iPad mini.
0:43:47Right, yeah, they can tinker with this one, but no, you know, no CPU in it, no new screen
0:43:53or anything like that.
0:43:54All right.
0:43:55Okay.
0:43:56I think it makes sense.
0:43:57It makes me sad.
0:43:58Yeah.
0:43:59I mean, it's a device I still think some people want,
0:44:03but I think it's gonna go the way the iPod touched
0:44:05and just sit for a really long time.
0:44:07- I was thinking about the iPad mini for my picks
0:44:10and I couldn't decide whether I wanted to go
0:44:12for a risky pick of like them either killing it
0:44:15or making a new one.
0:44:16I figured it was both.
0:44:19'Cause I have no idea. - It can kind of go
0:44:21either way. - I have no idea.
0:44:23- The beauty of the way I've structured my pick
0:44:25is if they kill it, I'm not wrong, so.
0:44:28Interesting. Interesting. We're clearly finding out that the wording, the wording can get you
0:44:35that point, but you're right. Yeah. If they kill it, then yeah, that's, that's also correct.
0:44:40I like that. What you don't see listener is Steven is now writing, if it is killed, I'm
0:44:44not wrong into the document because he just wants to make sure that when it comes to grading
0:44:49time, he gets those sweet, sweet points.
0:44:52That's right.
0:44:53- The only way that it's gonna be wrong
0:44:55if Apple actually makes a new iPad mini.
0:44:59But it has to be a new model with a new CPU,
0:45:01not a storage bump, not a price change, but a new model.
0:45:06- I would say the way that we decide this
0:45:09is if there is ever a press release or an announcement
0:45:13where they say the new iPad mini.
0:45:15Doesn't matter what's inside it or what it looks like,
0:45:18but it is referred to as a new thing.
0:45:21Because like the iPad, that 329 iPad wasn't particularly new.
0:45:26- Well, it was new though, it was new.
0:45:29- We all know what a new model is, right?
0:45:31Like we all understand that if they add a 32 gig option
0:45:34all of a sudden that's not a new iPad mini.
0:45:36We understand what a new iPad mini is.
0:45:36- But what if they take the current iPad mini
0:45:39and they throw like an A10 in it?
0:45:42- That's a new one.
0:45:43- That's a new one.
0:45:45- Okay.
0:45:45- Yeah.
0:45:46- All right, fine.
0:45:47Okay, cool.
0:45:48- New CPU.
0:45:49- That's kind of our baseline, right?
0:45:50New CPU.
0:45:50But even if they change the camera, I would say that's a new one.
0:45:54Yeah, yeah, yeah.
0:45:55Okay, I tell you what.
0:45:57If they do something where we believe they have to manufacture it differently, then it is new.
0:46:04And doing something like giving it a better camera.
0:46:07Yeah.
0:46:08Okay.
0:46:08Yeah, that's totally fair.
0:46:10Yeah, that would be a new model.
0:46:11Alright.
0:46:12Yeah, but storage?
0:46:13No, that doesn't count and I agree with that.
0:46:15It doesn't count.
0:46:16Because they just fiddle with that all the time.
0:46:17Yeah, it's like whatever.
0:46:19Storage doesn't exist anyway, it's all a lie, it's all in the cloud.
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0:47:46Alright, so we now enter our risky picks round.
0:47:50So I'll just reiterate at this point.
0:47:52The risky picks, you get two points if one is correct,
0:47:56but you will lose a point if you get it wrong.
0:47:59So you can get some real gains, but also some real disadvantages.
0:48:03And Federico, you're first up on risky picks.
0:48:05Alright.
0:48:06So, I think we will see workflow 2.
0:48:11Don't count the name as a prediction, but a new version of workflow, either as a built in system feature in the next version of iOS or a brand new app that you still need to install from the App Store.
0:48:25Or it's built in, but not as a feature, but as an app on your home screen. That's what I mean.
0:48:33I think it will be heavy on Siri integration.
0:48:36So you will be able to create your own routines
0:48:39or workflows or actions that you then summon via Siri,
0:48:43but it'll also retain the productivity features
0:48:45that an automation features
0:48:47that we've had in workflow so far.
0:48:49Ideally, this should be an entire automation framework
0:48:55for pro apps that would be able to talk to each other
0:48:57and to create, for example, custom menus
0:49:00and custom extensions that they can interact
0:49:03with multiple apps together.
0:49:05I think the App Store version will be kept around
0:49:09for a while to allow people to migrate
0:49:11from the old version to the new one.
0:49:13And there will probably be, if Apple does this,
0:49:17there will be a migration tool
0:49:19so that you can move your old workflows
0:49:21to the new app, to the new version.
0:49:23I'm really excited about what the workflow team
0:49:26has been up to.
0:49:27They've sort of been quiet for the past several months.
0:49:30I know that we've had workflow updates,
0:49:32but they haven't been as big as the updates
0:49:35that we used to get by the workflow team
0:49:38before the acquisition.
0:49:39So something is clearly up
0:49:41and I think we will get some workflow news this year.
0:49:45I'm really hopeful that it's going to be
0:49:48the kind of major update that I've always been hoping for.
0:49:53- You have given us something that is impossible to score
0:49:57because you have four things.
0:49:59We need to whittle down what we're actually
0:50:02storing you on here. - Okay, here's my list.
0:50:03Workflow 2 will appear either as a feature
0:50:07or as a standalone app on the home screen of iOS 12.
0:50:11It'll have serial integration,
0:50:13but it'll also have the standard automation features
0:50:18with the framework for apps to,
0:50:21like an API that they can take advantage of.
0:50:24- All right, so we are in a third points situation
0:50:28with you here. - Yes.
0:50:29see how that comes but there are three parts so workflow 2 will appear it
0:50:33doesn't matter how it will just appear right or something that we can clearly
0:50:37see is the follow-up to workflow right heavy on on Siri integration but also a
0:50:44framework like it like workflow kit or something to that effect. That is
0:50:49that is thirsty. That is bold like when you put the risky picks in place I wasn't
0:50:55expecting this risky. That's a big one. I don't think 2018 for this. I think
0:51:03this is all coming. But I think 2019. Mm-hmm. Let's see. Let's see.
0:51:10Alright, Steven? It's bold. It is bold. My risky pick, and I don't think it
0:51:17seems like a risky pick, so I'm going to defend it after I state my pick. But I
0:51:22I think that we could see an iTunes rewrite for Mac OS.
0:51:27And the reason I think it's risky,
0:51:29or that could be considered risky,
0:51:30is because there are lots of people who would say
0:51:32that Apple shouldn't make that investment
0:51:34on the Mac at this point,
0:51:35that it's a really big, I mean a huge project,
0:51:38and why would they spend that effort
0:51:40on Mac OS at this point in its life.
0:51:43But I think that if they want
0:51:45Apple Music to be like a first class citizen on the Mac,
0:51:50they've gotta do this.
0:51:51You know, we talked about this,
0:51:52switched to Apple Music, I'm all in, and it's sort of weird on the Mac because iTunes kind
0:51:57of treats it like the old iCloud Music library and there's like lots of confusion in places
0:52:02in the app about what's happening and where files are and that sort of thing.
0:52:07And I think that the Mac would benefit from this, but I think I don't know if Apple sees
0:52:11it that way.
0:52:12I don't know if Apple sees it as an important thing to do, but I keep thinking about it
0:52:17so it's my risky pick.
0:52:20I want to do some clarification on this.
0:52:23If they make an app called music and an app called like iPhone utility.
0:52:30Yeah.
0:52:31I think.
0:52:33Does that count?
0:52:34Because the way I'm reading this is there has to be an app called iTunes.
0:52:39So I will say iTunes rewrite or replacement.
0:52:42Okay.
0:52:43I think that's more in line with what I'm thinking.
0:52:45But there is a thing.
0:52:46I agree with you.
0:52:47I think that would totally count.
0:52:48that is new which is iTunes either in name or in function.
0:52:56Spiritual succession.
0:52:58So I agree this is risky because this has been like a 10-year wish at this point.
0:53:05Yeah, that's the other side of this, right? Like it's either gonna happen or it's never gonna happen.
0:53:10And the fact that it constantly comes up whenever we talk about what we think should or might happen at WWDC
0:53:18I think that it's evergreen. It's evergreen. Because there is no specific reason that it will be this year more than last year or the year before or the year before.
0:53:29Yeah. That's the brilliance of it if I'm right.
0:53:32Alright, so my one, my risky pick.
0:53:36iOS 12 will feature a large-scale UI redesign across iOS, the biggest since iOS 7.
0:53:43That's a bold one, but I'll tell you what, I agree with you and it makes total sense.
0:53:47Do you know why? Because we are basically as far from iOS 7 as we were from iOS 1.
0:53:54It's like my thinking.
0:53:55And also because we have like five different design languages on iOS, right?
0:53:59There are so many design languages.
0:54:00So that's my question.
0:54:01And time, right? Like it's the fact that I feel like from a design perspective, we are
0:54:08very far away from iOS 7 now and also we're coming up on a similar kind of time frame
0:54:14and I feel like that these time frames would get shorter over time right that it wouldn't
0:54:20I don't think that we would be waiting for iOS 14 for the next big redesign I feel like
0:54:26they should get shorter over time and I think that purely based upon the fact that
0:54:34iOS design is kind of all over the place right now and I'm seeing a lot of UI designers
0:54:40kind of wishing for skeuomorphism again that I think it might be time for a shakeup.
0:54:48Yeah that's been going on for a while, designers wishing that you go back to the days of drop
0:54:54shadows and 3D elements and stuff like that but I feel like there was sort of a movement of
0:55:01nostalgic UI designers, but over time, most of the people that I follow have kind of settled on
0:55:08evolving the flat design language into something that is not as keomorphic as it used to be,
0:55:15but somewhere in between, you know, with some...
0:55:18It has some character to it, right?
0:55:19Character with color and animation and, you know, different transitions,
0:55:24some use of shadows, for example. So I think it's time, I agree with you, I think it's time for
0:55:29unified design language that feels fresh, feels new, is shared across all these multiple devices
0:55:36that Apple has, this entire ecosystem on the TV, on the watch, on the phone, on the iPad.
0:55:41I think it's time, I think it makes subtle sense and you're probably gonna get these two points,
0:55:45Myke. We'll see. So I want to clarify it a little bit. Is this, what if Apple takes one of their
0:55:5417 different design paradigms that ship in their apps and just make that the universal
0:56:02look.
0:56:03I don't think that's a large scale UI redesign.
0:56:05I think the way that we would grade this is depending on how much time they spend at WWDC
0:56:10talking about it.
0:56:11Yeah.
0:56:12Like if they are like, this is iOS 12's new design, right?
0:56:18And I think it doesn't matter if it looks like something that already exists, but like
0:56:23all of the apps change, like all of the remaining apps conform.
0:56:27- It's like it's in the state of the union,
0:56:28how to lay apps out in this design.
0:56:31- It's like if every app that Apple makes
0:56:33gets those huge title bars,
0:56:35because they don't all have them, right?
0:56:37Then I think that that would count if they're like,
0:56:39we want your apps to look like this.
0:56:42And I also think that, you know, Federica,
0:56:44you've spoken about this a bit,
0:56:45and I'm definitely in agreement with you,
0:56:48that the iPhone, and Giancarlo in his review
0:56:52of the iPhone X recently said a very similar type of thing, that like some of the changes
0:56:59that the iPhone X after a year will show will inform iOS design, right? Like there are ways
0:57:07to design for that phone which could be and should be different but haven't been fully
0:57:12realised yet and it probably requires a new version of iOS to make that change. So I think
0:57:20That's just another reason why it would be now.
0:57:23So we'll see.
0:57:23So we're moving to extra picks.
0:57:26These are just things that we think are gonna happen,
0:57:29but we're not getting any points for these,
0:57:31but it's just for bragging rights.
0:57:33Stuff that we think is gonna occur.
0:57:35- Bragging rights.
0:57:35- That's all it is, right?
0:57:36They're like, we come to this time next year,
0:57:39and we're like, see, I told you.
0:57:41So Federico, you go first.
0:57:43- Reminders will get a major redesign.
0:57:46So new look for reminders.
0:57:48feel like this has been a long time coming. It has to be one of the most
0:57:52popular apps on iOS because people, I see people using Notes and Reminders all the
0:57:56time but Reminders still look kind of weird like iOS 7 designers not
0:58:03fully committed to ditching the old paper texture. Also comparing Reminders and
0:58:09Notes is interesting but Reminders didn't get good in the way that Notes did.
0:58:14Yep. Exactly. Notes got good. Reminders kind of mostly stayed the same. If it works for
0:58:20you that's awesome, but they didn't... Apple have not spent a significant amount of time
0:58:25adding features to reminders like they did with Notes a couple of years ago.
0:58:30And there's just so much potential, whether it's about attaching different types of items
0:58:34to a reminder or even tagging using the same design in iOS 11 of files and mail, for example,
0:58:43enhancing the way that you do sharing or checking in with Siri,
0:58:49especially now with the coming of the HomePod, I can imagine in a family setting
0:58:54how you could, for example, everybody could check in on the shopping list that is saved in Reminders.
0:59:00I just think there's just so much, and even on the iPad, things that you could do with drag and drop
0:59:06and integration with other apps.
0:59:08I feel like Reminders has been neglected since iOS 8 after the iOS 7 redesign.
0:59:16And I think it's time that Apple gives it some attention.
0:59:19I could probably say Calendar too, but Calendars are boring.
0:59:23So I'm gonna go with Reminders. I wanna see a major Reminders redesign.
0:59:27I think that Reminders design is infuriating.
0:59:34that card design. I've never liked it and every time I've ever tried to use that app, I just
0:59:43don't know how to get to anything. I really do not like it. I do really want them to drop the paper
0:59:50look in those as well. Like, please, please. It doesn't do anything.
0:59:56I know that you do a pen show, Myke, so you have a...
1:00:00I have a special affinity for paper, yeah.
1:00:03Yes, but honestly like all these metaphors they don't work anymore. Like young people they don't
1:00:11write to-do lists down on paper or if they do it's not because they love paper. So these throwbacks
1:00:19they used to work 10 years ago they used to work 15 years ago and they were awesome because they
1:00:24helped people familiarize themselves with computers but now people know computers and they know
1:00:32smartphones. So I feel like at some point it becomes a limitation to, you know, and
1:00:37this is the same discussion that we had in 2013 for iOS 7, but even more so
1:00:41today, you know, in the age of voice assistants and, you know, machine
1:00:48learnings and the echo and all these modern technologies, we're still thinking
1:00:52about paper, I mean, come on. So I think we need to...
1:00:55- Notes used to have that design where it looked like a folio, right? And like you'd tuck things into the side of it, and it was
1:01:01like legal pad yeah yeah wow yeah let's never go back to that.
1:01:07People know how to use a sidebar. Unless it's like a little leather pocket I don't know if people can get it.
1:01:14I'm not sure how I'm supposed to do with my hand here.
1:01:19Alright Stephen. So I'm going to to go in with what I'm gonna call German kit
1:01:28until we're given an official name.
1:01:30Okay.
1:01:31You could have called it the Gkit.
1:01:33Could have been another name.
1:01:35German Gkit. Gkit's good.
1:01:38The AppKit and UIKit will give birth to something new and cross-platform.
1:01:42We don't know what that looks like beyond his reporting,
1:01:45but the idea that Apple has some sort of next generation platform framework
1:01:50for developers to have one app that runs on the Mac and on the iPad and on the iPhone,
1:01:56I think that's something that we could, maybe if we don't see it completely, maybe we see the beginning steps of it this summer at WBCC.
1:02:05I think this is an inevitability. It's just a fact of timing. Like, maybe, I believe probably this year, but I think it's just a fact of timing.
1:02:14I'm going to go for my constant evergreen pick that I'll keep picking forever.
1:02:18Here we go!
1:02:19New Apple Pencil with some kind of button on it that does something.
1:02:24You know what, I saw someone, I think it may have been Dr. Wave on Twitter, I was talking about this the other day, and I agree so much.
1:02:31I would honestly just like an on and off button on the Apple Pencil so the battery would last, because if you do what I do, which is use like a pen loop to keep it attached,
1:02:39the battery dies real quick because it's keeping the connection running, right, because there's like a proximity thing.
1:02:45I would love to be able to just hit a button on the Apple Pencil to turn it on and then start using it.
1:02:51there are ways you could do it like unpairing the Bluetooth, but that doesn't work.
1:02:55And then I had I thought I had a great idea,
1:02:58which is to turn Bluetooth off on my iPad.
1:03:00But because of the wonders of iOS 11, it doesn't actually kill the connection.
1:03:05Actually, it keeps the connection.
1:03:08It gives you a little pop up, tells you, oh, don't worry, don't worry.
1:03:12The Apple pencil will stay connected.
1:03:14It's like, oh, gosh. OK, thank you.
1:03:16I worry. I want to worry because you're not doing what
1:03:19Because I came to the realisation that the only thing that I need Bluetooth for on my
1:03:23iPad is my Apple Pencil. So like, I could just turn it off and leave it off. I mean,
1:03:27I use my AirPods sometimes, but it would be so... I always have to like do the thing where
1:03:32you do the pairing, so like just hitting another button wouldn't hurt anyway. But anyway. So
1:03:36yeah, a new Apple Pencil, I think it's time. Please make one out of aluminium and put a
1:03:41button on it.
1:03:44This would have been a nice risky pick, Myke, but I understand why it's not.
1:03:52My next prediction, we're going to see a new smart keyboard.
1:03:55I also think it's time that Apple changes the design of this accessory and I think we
1:04:00will see a new material, maybe a backlit model.
1:04:05Because Logitech is doing a bunch of these, it's obviously possible with a keyboard connector.
1:04:12And also maybe it'll have a dedicated Siri key on the keyboard itself.
1:04:17I think it makes sense, especially if Apple expands the textual, the type to Siri feature
1:04:23that it's in iOS 11, if it maybe becomes like a standalone mode, not an accessibility feature,
1:04:29it will make sense to have a Siri key on the keyboard so that you can just tap it once
1:04:33and you type to Siri and you're done.
1:04:36I really want to see a new Spark keyboard, but I also think it's time that Apple, I think
1:04:42this should be a safe prediction.
1:04:45If Apple is working on new iPads,
1:04:47I would be really surprised if they don't come
1:04:50with a new smart keyboard design.
1:04:51- I want this to, for the same reason
1:04:55I want the Apple Pencil.
1:04:56- Yeah.
1:04:59- All right, Stephen.
1:05:00- Just, this is the Hail Mary,
1:05:04because there's no points attached to it,
1:05:06but you know, maybe a iPod touch update.
1:05:10- What would you do to it?
1:05:11make it bigger, I think, to match
1:05:154.7 inch. It has the A8
1:05:19in it, I think.
1:05:22I don't know. This is one of those things that could just go away
1:05:27too, I guess, because I don't know how many they're selling, but I feel like if they're going to
1:05:31update it
1:05:32again, I mean, this summer is three years.
1:05:36And it's got the A8 in it.
1:05:41I think if they're going to do it, it's time.
1:05:43So, if they don't do it, then it just goes away, that's fine too, but I think if it's
1:05:47everyone getting an update again, this is the year that they do it.
1:05:52I want to see bezel-less iPod Touch.
1:05:56That's all I want.
1:05:57Just give me an iPod Touch with a notch on it.
1:05:59The iPod notch.
1:06:00It would be beautiful.
1:06:01It would be tiny.
1:06:05My extra pick on iOS 12, the iPad home screen will feature more than just app icons.
1:06:12Ooh, fancy!
1:06:15You gave me trouble about iTunes re-writer replacement being an evergreen pick.
1:06:20This has been desired for 12 years.
1:06:24I tell you why I went for it now.
1:06:26They added so much in iOS 11.
1:06:30If you want to add an iPad feature, there aren't many big ones other than a shelf that
1:06:35you can add.
1:06:39Big obvious stuff that's been something people have wanted for a while.
1:06:44Not like little enhancements to files, right?
1:06:46Not like this or that, but big things where you can point to and be like, "See, they're
1:06:51still working on the iPad."
1:06:52I feel like this could be one of them.
1:06:55Even just adding widgets.
1:06:56It doesn't have to be a ton.
1:06:59This is where I struggle.
1:07:01What do they add beyond widgets?
1:07:03Is that it?
1:07:04Is that all that's out there?
1:07:05Drag and droppable widgets.
1:07:06So like being able to drag a file onto a Dropbox widget and it uploads, like that's something
1:07:11that I would like.
1:07:12You mean workflows.
1:07:13Actions of the home screen.
1:07:14I do most certainly mean workflows.
1:07:16I do most certainly mean those.
1:07:18Yeah.
1:07:19I honestly think like interactive widgets, whether they are actions or like lists of
1:07:26data basically what a widget is right now or document previous.
1:07:30I would love my calendar widget and my toggle widgets just on the home screen rather than
1:07:36moving backwards and forwards. So you know this isn't going to shatter the earth but
1:07:43I think if they were able to do this it would look like they're still focused on the iPad.
1:07:51Because I really don't want a lot for the iPad from iOS 12, I just want them to sand
1:07:56off the edges of iOS 11.
1:07:59There's a bunch of work I would like to do on files, which I will talk about this at
1:08:03some point on the show, like what I want to see Apple do with files, because I have a
1:08:08lot of things that they should be fixing and a lot of things they can add that I need to
1:08:11start writing a list.
1:08:14But I don't need a lot.
1:08:18I want some bug fixes and some feature which is a sign of life.
1:08:21That's all I personally want from iOS 12 for the iPad.
1:08:26I have a final prediction here.
1:08:31And this connects to Steven's actual pick.
1:08:35But I think Apple Video and Apple Music will finally have dedicated apps everywhere.
1:08:40So Apple Video for Mac and iOS and Apple Music for Mac and iOS.
1:08:45So basically what I'm saying is music and video removed from iTunes and at that point
1:08:49I'm not sure what iTunes on the Mac is anymore.
1:08:52So this is why, yeah, or I don't know podcasts maybe?
1:08:58I have no idea.
1:08:59So yeah Apple Video and Apple Music both apps on the Mac and iOS.
1:09:05So that's it.
1:09:06That's our picks.
1:09:07We will be, if and when any of these things happen throughout the year we will address
1:09:12it, but we will be doing points scoring in our last show of the year before the year
1:09:20in review, right? I guess that's when we'll do this. So we've got all the way until the
1:09:24end of the year, especially with StevensMac Pro. I mean, that could happen all the way
1:09:28up to December 31st, I think, potentially. It could be all the way up there. All right,
1:09:33we have one last topic today, which I'm pretty excited about. But first, I want to thank
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1:11:17Thanks to MissionU for their support of this show and Relay FM.
1:11:23So it is CES time and me and Federico wanted to talk about some of the trends that we have
1:11:31have seen over the first few days of CES
1:11:35and why they are interesting to us.
1:11:37Steven doesn't--
1:11:38- Steven doesn't want to.
1:11:39- Doesn't want to do this.
1:11:41But me and Federico are keen to talk about
1:11:44a couple of these things.
1:11:45- Here's, because you have taken what I said
1:11:49and blown it out of proportion.
1:11:50My overall problem with CES,
1:11:55and like, a lot of this stuff is really interesting,
1:11:58especially the smart assistant stuff,
1:12:00and I think it's super problematic that Apple's not there yet, but so much stuff
1:12:06at CES just isn't real. It's vaporware or it's LG announcing a robot that takes
1:12:14your suitcases from your car to your hotel room that they're never gonna be
1:12:17able to sell because unions are a thing. Like so much of it is just not anything,
1:12:22right? Like I've been watching The Verge does these like things where they cut up
1:12:26a keynote into ten minutes so you can just see all the important stuff. I've
1:12:29I've watched all of them.
1:12:30I watched like three of them over breakfast.
1:12:32And so much of it is just like nothing.
1:12:37And we can talk about the things that are real,
1:12:39but that's my problem with CES.
1:12:42The stuff that's real, it's gonna happen, it's great,
1:12:44but so much of it isn't, and that's where I struggle.
1:12:47So the stuff we're gonna talk about I think is exciting,
1:12:49but I think you have to temper that excitement with,
1:12:52you have to filter it all through the idea
1:12:55of some of this stuff is just concept,
1:12:57or they're just talking about innovation,
1:12:59because that's the word they have to use at CES,
1:13:01not because it's real products
1:13:03that make a difference in people's lives.
1:13:05- I feel like there's two sides to this conference,
1:13:07and this is why maybe you're totally right
1:13:11from this point of view that there's the CES
1:13:14where you get these new accessories, these new devices,
1:13:16stuff that is actually gonna ship,
1:13:18that is actually getting a pre-order going live this week,
1:13:22or a ship dating two months.
1:13:25So that's the real stuff that's been announced,
1:13:27- Or it's from a reputable big name company, right?
1:13:32It's like they're gonna ship this stuff
1:13:34because it's gonna look silly if they don't.
1:13:36Whether you think it's good or not, right?
1:13:38Like they're gonna ship it.
1:13:40- But to an extent, you could maybe even make the argument
1:13:43that even LG, for example,
1:13:45is showing off like a foldable OLED TV.
1:13:48And I mean, that seems to be a working prototype.
1:13:51- Well, okay, so TVs are like a whole big thing of CES
1:13:56and companies like LG, they come to CES
1:14:00with technology that they've just developed
1:14:02that will ship in five years time, right?
1:14:05But they come to CES with their breakthroughs
1:14:07because a lot of it as well is what they're trying to do
1:14:10is get companies to buy.
1:14:11So for example, Sharp a few years ago
1:14:15came with a bunch of equipment
1:14:16which ended up showing up in stuff
1:14:18like the Nintendo Switch, right?
1:14:21Like, you know, they're like multiple years
1:14:25into the future you'll see it because sometimes these companies are just trying to get other
1:14:28companies to buy their panels and stuff like that.
1:14:31Like TVs are a thing which have always been big at CES and this is one of the reasons
1:14:34because all the big manufacturers bring their breakthroughs.
1:14:37I mean and I will say though that that LG thing is wild.
1:14:42Like it is a screen which rolls out of a box.
1:14:47It's so weird.
1:14:49But like I think I would kind of like that right like in 10 years time.
1:14:54Did you see the modular Samsung TV that you basically make it bigger by attaching panels
1:15:01to the monitor?
1:15:02No.
1:15:03See, this one's freaking incredible, though.
1:15:04No.
1:15:05To Steven's point...
1:15:06It's 146 inches!
1:15:08Yes, they call it the wall.
1:15:10They call it the wall.
1:15:11Of course they do.
1:15:12So to Steven's point, to Steven's point, we also get these crazy announcements, whether
1:15:17from big companies or some other companies that nobody knows.
1:15:21And you get the suitcase that is supposed to follow you but keeps on falling to the
1:15:25ground and you get the dancing robot, you get the robot stripper and I'm not kidding
1:15:30here there was a robot stripper at an event last night it seemed.
1:15:33I saw the news on Twitter.
1:15:34Just awful.
1:15:35So what is wrong with these people?
1:15:37And you get these crazy wild inappropriate ideas that are never gonna happen.
1:15:43So I thought we should quickly mention the stuff that we are going to see available on
1:15:52the market, that we're probably going to buy some of these devices, or just general trends
1:15:57that I think are interesting.
1:15:58And the first one I believe that everybody's talking about this is the new accessories,
1:16:05devices from TVs to headphones to speakers, even cars maybe, with either the Amazon Echo
1:16:14Assistant or the Google Assistant built in. So native integrations with the
1:16:20assistants by Amazon and Google. We've seen this in the new 4K TVs by LG. We've seen this in
1:16:28wireless earbuds, which are also a trend. You know, everybody's making AirPods like earbuds now.
1:16:33And I believe it's because Qualcomm has announced a new chip that makes it better for manufacturers to make these kind of accessories.
1:16:43We've seen the Google Assistant in JBL's new line of speakers and earbuds.
1:16:49We've seen light switches with displays and we've seen kitchen TVs with the Amazon Echo Assistant and the Google Assistant built in.
1:16:59So we're seeing these two assistant APIs becoming available in a wide range of products.
1:17:08And I wonder, so my question here.
1:17:11So obviously this is interesting from a nerd point of view because it's, you know, cool
1:17:15new technology and voice controls in a bunch of different appliances.
1:17:19I think it's very cool. But is this a problem for Apple?
1:17:22Is this a problem that these two are becoming
1:17:26the de facto standards in the third-party assistant market?
1:17:31And do we believe that Apple is making a mistake
1:17:33by not opening up Siri in a similar way?
1:17:36- So I was gonna, one of my picks
1:17:38that I was thinking of making, this isn't an official pick,
1:17:42but one of my picks was gonna be
1:17:44that we don't see the HomePod until Q2.
1:17:46I don't know why, I just feel like, where is it?
1:17:51like where is it? Nobody knows and no one's saying anything and it doesn't exist yet
1:17:56and it's just late. But I think what is happening is Google and Amazon are like okay
1:18:04then we will spam the market. We will own it. We will put our technology into everything
1:18:13because it benefits them ultimately for what they're trying to do. Apple is trying to
1:18:17to sell their devices, Google and Amazon are selling their ecosystem. But their ecosystem
1:18:27isn't a hardware ecosystem, it is the thing above it all. Amazon just wants you to buy
1:18:33more stuff and Google just wants your data. So they don't care if JBL makes a speaker
1:18:40that has Google Assistant in. Or they don't care if iDevices, which have built a wonderfully
1:18:45bonkers thing, which is a light switch which has the Amazon Echo built into it. Not that
1:18:51it can turn it on and off, but you can literally talk to the light switch. I think that that
1:18:56is wild and amazing. You look like a crazy person talking to a light switch. I like the
1:19:02idea of like… Talking to the wall. Everybody had trouble writing this headline because
1:19:10when you read it, you just think, "Oh, they just made a light switch that I can turn on
1:19:13and off. No, no, you can talk to the light switch.
1:19:18Clearly something happened with Google and Amazon, especially for this CES where they've
1:19:22just gone to these device makers and they're like, "Do what you want."
1:19:27I think that Amazon have done something, I don't know if they're enforcing this, but
1:19:32the blue ring of light seems to be on all of their products that they're endorsing,
1:19:37like that have the Echo stuff built into it. So I expect that that's like a brand thing
1:19:41for them. But then Google, they have like released a whole new part of Home and Assistant,
1:19:48where now there are Lenovo, JBL, LG and Sony are making Google Assistant devices with screens
1:19:55on them. And they have built this whole new interface, which is built upon, I think it's
1:20:01called Android Things, which is this like wearable platform. And it's just Google services
1:20:07right now. It includes YouTube, LOL, Amazon Show, right? Like Echo Show. They've been
1:20:14having some real problems and now Google's like "Oh, just use YouTube on this screen device."
1:20:18But that's interesting to me that they are pushing into the screen thing too and have a thing which
1:20:26is all ready to go. Yeah and Google is clearly catching up with Amazon here because they must
1:20:31feel behind and they've been kind of aggressive both in terms of the brand presence at CES. I
1:20:37I saw the photos of just Google logos and hey, Google
1:20:41signage and billboards and, you know, just everywhere,
1:20:45at least judging from the photos of taken by people there.
1:20:48And I saw that Google also reorganized the sort of the interface
1:20:53and the catalog for the Google Assistant.
1:20:56It's now officially called Actions, the thing that you install.
1:20:59So Amazon has skills.
1:21:01The Google Assistant now has Actions and I don't know how many million Actions
1:21:06They say they are available, but a lot basically.
1:21:09And I sort of I'm fascinated by these two companies going against each other and Google
1:21:17sort of feeling the need to catch up quickly, as opposed to Apple taking their time with
1:21:23a single speaker that doesn't basically have any third party integration natively from a
1:21:31native perspective.
1:21:33And I guess the core discussion here is, do we believe that this stuff is all a fad?
1:21:41That it's basically nobody's gonna buy these devices in numbers that really matter ultimately?
1:21:49Do we believe that this is a fake trend that will go away and nobody cares?
1:21:54And I wonder at what point does this argument sort of not make sense anymore?
1:22:01Because once you get the assistant in your headphones, in your speakers, in your car, in your TV, does it matter at the point?
1:22:09Is that relevant or is it only relevant if Apple does it?
1:22:14Which I think can be a little, you know, somehow short sighted to say, well, unless Apple enters this market, then none of this stuff matters.
1:22:23Because I mean, we're talking brands like Sony, JBL, LG, Samsung, Lenovo.
1:22:29So these are actual brands that, you know, it's not like I'm running a Kickstarter for,
1:22:35I don't know, like a remote with Alexa built in.
1:22:40It's like, you know, these are big companies.
1:22:42And so I think it's something worth paying attention to.
1:22:45And I've seen on Twitter folks say, well, everything's got to change with the HomePod.
1:22:50Is it though?
1:22:51I mean, I'm excited.
1:22:52Because it's not even this market, right?
1:22:53Like Apple are not even really going after this.
1:22:57just making a really good Apple music speaker that does some other stuff.
1:23:01Yeah they're going after Sonos much more than Google Assistant and the
1:23:05Amazon Echo Lady. I do think that that's that thought process Federico that if
1:23:11Apple's not involved it's not important. That is one that people in our circles
1:23:15fall prey to and that's why I wanted to say what I said about how I feel about
1:23:20CES because I don't believe that if Apple's not in it it doesn't matter
1:23:23because I think that's a foolish way to view consumer technology, but you know
1:23:29you got actually ship stuff too. I do think the big story though from CS is
1:23:35all this assistant stuff like Google and Amazon are in a war like just they are
1:23:40going after each other and the YouTube stuff and all that stuff is you know
1:23:45different fronts of the of the war but it's really getting to a point where you
1:23:50You can have one of these assistants, like you said, everywhere.
1:23:54And that's something that Apple people have always said, "Well, Siri's with you in your
1:23:58pocket and the Amazon assistant is stuck on your kitchen counter."
1:24:03That is not true anymore.
1:24:06That's not a fair critique anymore because these things are becoming more and more ever
1:24:13present.
1:24:14I mean, just the other day I was watching something on TV and there's a commercial for
1:24:19or some car and in the car commercial, like on television,
1:24:23is oh, it comes with the Amazon voice assistant
1:24:26built into the car.
1:24:27Like this stuff is becoming mainstream
1:24:30and there's always stuff at CES that's kind of out there,
1:24:32right, that maybe the Amazon voice in a light switch
1:24:37is a dumb idea and the market will show that.
1:24:40But this stuff is everywhere now
1:24:42and this market is progressing in a way that Apple,
1:24:48Apple clearly is not approaching it straight head on,
1:24:50they're approaching it from an angle.
1:24:52And I think there's room for Apple to be successful here,
1:24:55but Google and Amazon aren't waiting around
1:24:58to see if that comes true or not.
1:25:00- Yeah, it's like this smart speaker
1:25:02and assistive technology, it's like a whole new avenue
1:25:04for CES, especially this year.
1:25:06But it's given another thing for there to actually be
1:25:09for these device makers to make stuff and show it off.
1:25:12'Cause like CES in the last couple of years
1:25:14has gotten a bit dry,
1:25:16because that hasn't really been a thing.
1:25:18but this is like a thing, right?
1:25:19Where like all of these companies are able to be like,
1:25:21here is our smart assistant product
1:25:23and we're working with Google to make these headphones.
1:25:25Like it's like a whole thing that they can talk about.
1:25:28And I think that like, you know, I spoke about this with VR
1:25:32and I think that the core idea is the same,
1:25:36that every technology company is terrified
1:25:39that they're gonna miss the next smartphone.
1:25:43So any big technology trend or any trend
1:25:46that starts to occur, all of these companies,
1:25:49they rush at it, right, to make sure
1:25:51that they're gonna be able to have a seat at the table.
1:25:53Nobody wants to be Facebook in 2008, right,
1:25:57where they're like completely miss mobile.
1:25:58Nobody wants to be them, right?
1:26:00Like this informs Mark Zuckerberg's
1:26:04entire acquisition strategy over the last few years, right?
1:26:07And he said it, like because he said it,
1:26:09he doesn't wanna miss out on how he missed out
1:26:11on the smartphone.
1:26:12So anytime that there is a big technology trend,
1:26:15these companies rush at it.
1:26:16So that is what Google's doing, that is what Amazon's doing.
1:26:19They want to make sure that if this becomes a thing,
1:26:22they are the player.
1:26:24And that's why there's like a billion products.
1:26:26And it's interesting and it is keen
1:26:29as somebody heavily in the Apple ecosystem
1:26:32to see what or if they're ever going to do anything
1:26:34or if this ends up just being an enthusiast thing
1:26:38and nothing more.
1:26:39We're not, I think the jury is still very much out
1:26:42on that one.
1:26:43But there was another trend which is a long-lived CES trend, but was here in 2018 as well, Federico.
1:26:51Yeah, combining multiple devices, multiple gadgets into one.
1:26:57I think "convergence" is called "convergence", yes. This is the right word, Myke.
1:27:01Convergence is the "C" in CES. It's the Convergence Electronics System.
1:27:06Let me go through this list because it's kind of amazing.
1:27:10a USB-C dock that is also a Qi charger.
1:27:15So not only can you plug in your cables,
1:27:17you can also charge your iPhone on top of the cables.
1:27:20This is actually quite genius, a HomeKit smoke alarm
1:27:24that is also an AirPlay 2 speaker.
1:27:26So you can stick it to the ceiling
1:27:29and not only does it save your life,
1:27:31you also play some sweet music as you're escaping.
1:27:34- And have straight up one of the best pun product names
1:27:38I have ever heard.
1:27:38- Yes.
1:27:39I want to once again the pitch of this product is it is a smoke alarm with a speaker in it.
1:27:46It is called the safe and sound. Oh my gosh someone needs to get a raise. That is incredible.
1:27:54Somebody like did a lap of The Office when they came up with that name. It's amazing.
1:27:59The safe and sound.
1:28:00Bob from marketing really deserves the raise. It is amazing. Hold on because we're not done
1:28:08a mesh router that is also an Alexa speaker.
1:28:11- This is the most ridiculous one.
1:28:13That's the most ridiculous one.
1:28:15- You can talk to the router,
1:28:17you can ask questions to the--
1:28:19- Okay, here's my problem with this one.
1:28:22Most of the time your router,
1:28:24it's in the center of your house
1:28:25or if you have a distributed system,
1:28:27they're kind of all over the place.
1:28:28But they're never where I want my voices to be.
1:28:33Like I don't have a router in my kitchen.
1:28:35- Looks like a boombox.
1:28:36So you can put it anywhere you want a boombox to be.
1:28:39That's what my kitchen needs. A boombox device.
1:28:41Yeah! You carry it around on your shoulder and that's how you get good wi-fi throughout the house.
1:28:47Oh yeah that's...
1:28:48Can I... can I interest you guys in a mouse pad? In a mouse pad that is also a wireless charger.
1:28:55So here's my problem with this one. On the face of it, it's like, okay, if my mouse is wireless,
1:29:01then great. But then your mouse mat needs to be plugged into something.
1:29:06So it's kind of pointless, right?
1:29:08What if the pad also charges the mouse and the iPhone on top of the pad?
1:29:17So it's an air power but for your mouse and phone, you know?
1:29:22It could be CS 2019.
1:29:24It's not the worst thing.
1:29:26Honest, super quick.
1:29:28In a move that I expected but is very interesting to me,
1:29:33I mean, I could say I don't really care for it, but she very, very, very frequently does
1:29:42not plug her phone in.
1:29:43She just puts it down and falls asleep.
1:29:45Now all she needs to do is put it in a specific place.
1:29:47So yeah, she loves it.
1:29:49So I'm pleased I have the charging pad for her.
1:29:51But yes, maybe I need to get her a mouse mat instead.
1:29:55So final pick, what about another mic doesn't drive, but maybe this could be the hot gadget
1:30:03that convinces you to buy a car and get a driving license.
1:30:06What about an Amazon Echo speaker for the car?
1:30:10Hold on.
1:30:12That is also a dash cam.
1:30:13So you can be like the Russians.
1:30:15You can be like the Russians constantly recording
1:30:17when they're on the road and make sure that, you know,
1:30:19this activates making great YouTube videos
1:30:23and this activates the recording when it detects a crash
1:30:27and it saves a local file for you.
1:30:30And then you can ask the Echo to,
1:30:32to, "Hey, play my accident."
1:30:34And you can see the, you can relieve those terrifying moments.
1:30:39- Do you remember the Meteor one?
1:30:43The Russian dashcam with the Meteor hit the ground.
1:30:46- Oh yes, yes, exactly.
1:30:48- It was incredible.
1:30:50You neglected to mention one feature of this,
1:30:55that on the back of this device,
1:30:57this is the part that's facing you, the driver,
1:30:59they can throw up driving directions.
1:31:02So you can look at a little half-inch circle in the corner of your windshield.
1:31:07An Amazon Echo speaker with a dash cam and a GPS in it.
1:31:10Yeah, this is the Garmin Speak Plus.
1:31:13I think we mentioned the Garmin Speak a while back when we talked about the Amazon Echo APIs.
1:31:18This is a new version, it's called the Plus because it's got a new feature, which is the dash cam.
1:31:24But it's the same idea.
1:31:25This does actually seem like a pretty compelling product.
1:31:28Like, this is, of all the weird combos that we've seen so far, I gotta say, I gotta say,
1:31:36the safe and sound and the Garmin Speak Plus are not so terrible.
1:31:41You know, I've thought about getting one of those Nest Protects, but I'm really nervous
1:31:47about trying out the new fan called Smoke Alarm.
1:31:51I feel like of all of the things, like, to try out, the Smoke Alarm isn't one of them,
1:31:57You want that to be like tried and true.
1:32:00I want the most dumb smoke alarm possible.
1:32:05As anyone ever said I'm really excited about my new smoke alarm.
1:32:09Yeah.
1:32:10I mean I guess people when they got the Nest Protect were pretty excited.
1:32:14Yeah.
1:32:16I have not bought the Nest Protect.
1:32:17I'm like you Myke.
1:32:18What if you never use it?
1:32:19Like do you go like man I cannot wait for my kitchen to catch on fire so I can make
1:32:23sure that I'm getting my money out of this purchase.
1:32:27Do you not test your smoke alarms Federico?
1:32:28How do you do the actual test in the fire? Like, the fire doesn't come up and press the
1:32:33test button. That's not how that works.
1:32:36We don't have smoke alarms in Italy. It's not like a regulation that we need to install
1:32:40them.
1:32:41How are you alive?
1:32:42What? What?
1:32:43Yeah. Yeah, we don't do smoke alarms in Italy.
1:32:46This is like the seatbelt thing. Where like, just because there's no regulation, that you
1:32:54still get one. But why would I want a smoke alarm? Like what I would I work the
1:33:01seatbelt because I'm driving and it saves my life when I'm cooking I'm not
1:33:05gonna no my kitchen catch fire. No no no no no no no no. Any good smoke alarm is smart enough to not go off
1:33:12when you're cooking. I have a smoke alarm in my kitchen and it doesn't go off but
1:33:17it works. I mean I got two dogs. I got two dogs. They act as my smoke alarm if they smell
1:33:24something fun. I've seen you. Now if the smoke gets them first, I've seen your cable
1:33:29management behind your TV. You should have a smoke alarm. It's a matter of time for
1:33:32that. I am. I can only apologize for what your mentions are gonna look like. Like you
1:33:39walked into this. We did not bring you into this. You gave this information willingly.
1:33:44I don't understand why like it's I understand the smoke alarms are common in the UK and in the US.
1:33:50It is something that nearly like nobody I know has a smoke alarm. So it's not like I'm just the crazy
1:33:57person here without a smoke alarm. I was never like when I was a kid my parents didn't have a
1:34:04smoke alarm. My grandma didn't have a smoke alarm. I get that 100% like I have like in Romania,
1:34:11nobody wears seatbelts, right?
1:34:13And it's like, everyone thinks that it's disrespectful
1:34:17when I put the seatbelt on in the taxi,
1:34:19but I'm like, I don't care.
1:34:21And like, when I'm there, Adina wears a seatbelt.
1:34:24I like keep looking at her until she puts it on.
1:34:26When she's in London, she has no problem with it.
1:34:28When she's in Romania, she never wears it.
1:34:30I totally get how like these things are just like,
1:34:34they become a part of just the way that people live.
1:34:38But this is just one that like if you live in other parts of Europe or you live in the US,
1:34:45not having a smoke alarm, like people think that you have lost your mind.
1:34:51Like this is akin to the seatbelt thing, right?
1:34:53Like is seatbelts a thing in Italy or no? Do people wear seatbelts?
1:34:57Yeah, well it is a thing people, especially younger people, they all tend to wear seatbelts.
1:35:03But older people do that thing where they like clip it in and put it behind them or whatever,
1:35:07I mentioned before that in Naples they sell t-shirts with a fake seatbelt print on them.
1:35:14Which is just like, I don't even understand the type of person that will get a specific t-shirt to drive in.
1:35:21My dad, I'm not sure if he does this still, but my dad had his doctor prescribing like a piece of paper basically
1:35:32where the document says that this person has a shoulder injury and is allowed to not wear
1:35:39seatbelts and whenever the police stopped him for routine checks on the road, he would
1:35:45whip up this document saying that he was allowed not to wear a seatbelt.
1:35:49It's like the medical marijuana of seatbelts, right?
1:35:52Yeah.
1:35:53You go to the specific doctor and you give him $25 and then you get the piece of paper
1:35:58- Oh my god, I get my debt arrested for this revelation.
1:36:02(laughing)
1:36:05- No one knows his name, we're good, we're good.
1:36:07And as we know, bribery can go a long way Federico,
1:36:11you just give some money to the police officer
1:36:13and you're all good.
1:36:13- Yeah, this is--
1:36:14- No, don't do this, this isn't--
1:36:15- Take your seatbelt to the bakery, you'll be fine.
1:36:18- Federico, I would love it if you could buy
1:36:20like a super low profile smoke alarm
1:36:22so like none of your friends know,
1:36:23but just like put it in the hallway, right?
1:36:26Like, you know, just so we know that you're good,
1:36:28You know? I just want to know you could.
1:36:30Do they sound the siren if there's a problem?
1:36:32Well of course they do.
1:36:33Yes. That's the point.
1:36:35Otherwise what are they doing?
1:36:36Just like, "Ah, we recorded there was a fire.
1:36:40Good luck."
1:36:41It's an alarm, Federico.
1:36:43The clue's in the name.
1:36:44If you want to find our show notes for this week,
1:36:49go to relay.fm/connected/175.
1:36:53Don't look for us on Twitter this time.
1:36:55We're all good.
1:36:57like this time, Federico knows now, you don't have to tell him. I'm probably saying this
1:37:03too late, you know, we're too late at this point.
1:37:05This is not going to be as bad as you think, Myke. This is totally going to be fine. People
1:37:10understand, people understand I'm Italian, we do things differently, people know.
1:37:15Alright, well, I feel like you're just goading people now into this, but you know, go to
1:37:20MacStories.net, FireToldPixels.net, subscribe to the FireToldPixels YouTube channel, Steve
1:37:25and when have you got a new video going up?
1:37:27Monday.
1:37:29Oh wow that was quicker than I expected, I look forward to it.
1:37:32Go check out more shows at relay FM.
1:37:35I hear this from people, they're like "oh I don't listen"
1:37:37We have, trust me, if you're listening to this show,
1:37:40we have at least one more show that you would enjoy.
1:37:42Like I would put money on that.
1:37:45I will bet you a dollar.
1:37:46This is, I'm walking myself into a situation.
1:37:50I bet you one dollar, there is at least one more show that you could listen to
1:37:53if you only listen to this one.
1:37:54I bet even if you listen to two, you could probably find another, but I'm not going to
1:37:57bet you on that one.
1:37:58Thanks again to our sponsors this week, our friends over at MissionU, Squarespace, and
1:38:04Linode.
1:38:05We'll be back next time.
1:38:06Until then, say goodbye, guys.
1:38:07Adios.
1:38:08Adios.
1:38:08Adios.