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Connected

175: The Devil on my Shoulder

 

00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:05   from Relay FM this is Connected episode 175 today's show

00:00:10   is sponsored by Linode Squarespace and MissionU my name

00:00:14   is Myke Hurley I am joined by Federico Vittucci ciao Federico

00:00:18   hey Myke and Steven Hackett hello Steven Hackett

00:00:22   hey it's good to be back with you so much happened

00:00:25   during our time away, which is very rare

00:00:30   that huge technology news occurs during our time away,

00:00:35   but it did, and most of it's so old now

00:00:38   that we're not even really gonna bother talking about it.

00:00:40   So we have a brand new show full of new stuff,

00:00:44   no old stuff, only new stuff.

00:00:46   That's what you get from Connected.

00:00:47   - We do have two points of follow up.

00:00:48   It's not completely-- - But they're not, you know,

00:00:49   we're not gonna start talking about Spectre or anything,

00:00:53   that great James Bond movie that everyone's talking about.

00:00:56   Is that a good James Bond movie?

00:00:58   I don't know, I haven't seen it.

00:01:00   I never watched a James Bond movie either.

00:01:02   Oh, okay, I don't need to go into that.

00:01:05   I've seen every single James Bond movie

00:01:06   and love all of them, I just haven't for some reason

00:01:08   seen Spectre yet.

00:01:09   I know, there is one, like an old one from the 90s,

00:01:14   maybe from the early 2000s, with a song by Madonna, I think.

00:01:19   Die Another Day.

00:01:20   Yeah.

00:01:21   You've seen that one?

00:01:22   know that song. Okay. I think. Is that it? You just know the song? That's a good story.

00:01:27   That's my knowledge about Dink Bond. It's the Madonna song. Yeah. I mean there

00:01:32   are definitely other James Bond themes that you know, like because some of them

00:01:37   are very very popular classic all-time songs. Like for example "Live and Let Die"

00:01:42   by Wings. Paul McCartney and Wings. Is it? "Live and Let Die" that one? Yes. Okay.

00:01:50   So, like, that's about the James Bond movie Live and Let It Die.

00:01:54   Oh, really? Okay.

00:01:55   The songs are always named after the movie, with a couple of exceptions. We don't need

00:02:00   to go into this, like, we're good. We're good. We're good.

00:02:04   You're the one that keeps going further down this trail.

00:02:06   Well, because I said a couple of things, and then I felt like I needed...

00:02:10   It was interesting.

00:02:11   ...like I know enough that I needed to clarify some of the edge cases. Like, you know, for

00:02:16   For example, the song for Casino Royale, I believe is called "You Know My Name" which

00:02:22   is why the guy from Soundgarden, Chris something?

00:02:26   But like that was, you know, so that was an except.

00:02:29   Anyway, let's follow up.

00:02:30   Yes.

00:02:31   Okay.

00:02:32   We're going to start with some very important follow up.

00:02:35   Connected was named a runner up in the Best Tech Podcast category in the 2017 Upgradies,

00:02:44   along with a show called Canvas that Federico you do with Fraser Spears, that's a really

00:02:48   great show.

00:02:49   So congratulations to us, I guess is what I'm saying.

00:02:51   That's how I'm starting our 2018.

00:02:53   Self congratulations.

00:02:54   Yep, I was part of the voting committee and didn't win.

00:02:59   I don't want to ever give myself an upgradey.

00:03:01   That's not a thing I ever really want to do.

00:03:05   Connected scored very, very highly with the upgradeians.

00:03:10   And then there's always this fun thing where like, upgrade never scores very highly.

00:03:14   And it's like, well, let's just hope that everyone's assuming not to vote for that show.

00:03:19   It's a very, but the upgrade is for great.

00:03:22   If you haven't listened to the upgrade is it is an annual award show that me and Jason

00:03:25   do on upgrade is a great episode.

00:03:27   I was very proud of it.

00:03:28   You should do it.

00:03:30   It's good.

00:03:32   $29 battery placements underway.

00:03:34   So this is one of those stories that broke during our break.

00:03:40   We did, last episode, a week ago, was our 2017 in review, and we actually recorded that

00:03:48   before Christmas, and we had to scramble to fix the battery replacement section of the

00:03:53   show.

00:03:54   No, don't let people know!

00:03:55   Don't let people know!

00:03:56   Well, you can edit this out if you don't want to.

00:03:57   No, everyone just thinks that we were so succinct about it, right?

00:04:02   Yeah.

00:04:03   Shh, don't tell them.

00:04:07   But now we are, well not us, Apple Store employees are deep in the trenches of replacing batteries.

00:04:15   This is the real test for the connected crew is we are actually the ones replacing those

00:04:20   batteries.

00:04:21   I was at my Apple Store basically I think December 30th or something right at the very

00:04:26   end of the year and then I had to go back yesterday and they are just completely swamped.

00:04:31   We've gotten some emails and some follow up from people who work in Apple retail or have

00:04:36   to get their batteries replaced.

00:04:37   And basically, no stores have appointments.

00:04:40   Very few stores have batteries.

00:04:42   How they seem to be doing it is if you make an appointment

00:04:46   and go in and they don't have the part,

00:04:48   your name gets put on a list.

00:04:50   And then when a battery becomes available to you,

00:04:53   once that part of the list gets finally reached,

00:04:56   then they give you a call.

00:04:57   And you can come back in and get it done.

00:04:59   But if you have a phone that you think is affected by this,

00:05:02   if you have a 6, a 6S, an SE, or a 7,

00:05:07   and you want this to be dealt with,

00:05:10   I think patience is gonna be the name of the game.

00:05:12   I think that maybe don't go in this week or next week,

00:05:15   like give 'em some time,

00:05:17   because it seems really hectic in Apple stores.

00:05:21   I've actually kind of been keeping tabs

00:05:22   on iPhone appointments at my store

00:05:23   over the last couple days preparing for the show,

00:05:25   and they have no appointments.

00:05:26   Like it's just really, really busy.

00:05:29   So I guess our thoughts and prayers

00:05:31   go out to iPhone technicians everywhere.

00:05:34   - That'd be a difficult time.

00:05:35   - It is a difficult time.

00:05:36   - I am wondering, why are you visiting Apple Store

00:05:38   so frequently?

00:05:40   - Yeah, that's what I wanted to know too.

00:05:41   (laughing)

00:05:42   - Part one of that--

00:05:43   - Are you taking pictures there?

00:05:45   You're taking selfies in front of the Apple Store?

00:05:48   - I just go every day and see if they still have

00:05:49   a Mac Pro for sale.

00:05:50   My first visit at the end of the year is a topic

00:05:54   later in this episode, and then yesterday I just went in

00:05:57   to pick up a watch band, so nothing nefarious.

00:06:01   I went to an Apple store yesterday.

00:06:03   - Oh yeah, I didn't see you there.

00:06:06   We used to miss each other.

00:06:07   - We just passed each other in the revolving door.

00:06:11   I think this is a funny story.

00:06:13   I don't know if this is a funny story,

00:06:15   but I went to the ophthalmologist yesterday

00:06:17   and I had to have my eyes looked at

00:06:21   and they dilated my pupils, right?

00:06:23   Do that thing where they drop the drops in.

00:06:26   - That's awful.

00:06:26   - For whatever reason, it was very difficult

00:06:30   for them to dilate my pupils and they'd put a lot of drops in my eyes before it would

00:06:36   work. Now obviously the knock-on effect of that is like my pupils are significantly dilated.

00:06:43   I was out in town, I actually had dinner with the wonderful Mr David Sparks from MacPowUsers

00:06:47   who was in London. So I had some hours in between and I decided that I wanted to surprise

00:06:54   is

00:07:08   she knows or a bunch of friends that she knows have iPhone 10s and she wants the camera like

00:07:12   she is she was unhappy with her Instagram game. So I decided that I would surprise her

00:07:18   by buying an iPhone. But the problem was I had to buy this iPhone with my pupils severely

00:07:23   dilated. I couldn't see my iPhone. So I was bought I was pre ordering. So my pupils are

00:07:31   so dilated I couldn't read the text on my iPhone anymore. What is what did you buy?

00:07:36   I bought the right one, which was a marvel of what must be incredibly good app design

00:07:43   from the Apple Store app. But I figured I had to pre-order it and go pick it up, right?

00:07:47   Because I had figured there'd still be a line, right? Like there's always lines. But it was

00:07:50   just funny to me that I was able to buy this phone, like standing on the sidewalk after

00:07:55   I left the ophthalmologist, with like my phone directly in front of my face. Like I had it

00:08:03   like right in front of my face. I have my glasses off like in my hands kind of like

00:08:07   a person who couldn't like could barely see it was a whole big scene. And I actually I

00:08:14   this is not a thing that I will necessarily think is something I want to share with the

00:08:18   world but I'm going to send the two of you a picture that I took of myself. So with my

00:08:23   pupils severely dilated. So you can see so you're able to see what I'm dealing with.

00:08:29   you'll need to zoom in on this picture

00:08:31   so you can see my eyes.

00:08:32   I'm sending it to you in iMessage

00:08:34   so you know what I'm dealing with.

00:08:36   But I had to ask Steven about AppleCare.

00:08:39   And I sent him a text message about AppleCare

00:08:41   and I was like, how long after can you buy AppleCare?

00:08:44   And the reason was is that he sent me a link

00:08:47   and I was like, I need you to tell me

00:08:48   because I can't read anything.

00:08:52   I can kind of just about make out an iMessage,

00:08:55   but having to look through a document

00:08:58   on the K base would have been a disaster.

00:09:01   But as you can see, my eyes were basically all pupils.

00:09:04   - It's like you have two marbles inside your eye.

00:09:06   - It was a scene, man.

00:09:09   It was a real scene.

00:09:11   I couldn't see anything for about three hours.

00:09:13   - You should have asked for help.

00:09:14   You should have asked, "Doctor, can you please buy me

00:09:16   an iPhone?"

00:09:16   Please buy iPhone. - Please, just press

00:09:17   the buttons, please press the buttons.

00:09:19   So yeah, I went there, I went to the Apple store.

00:09:23   All the lights were really bright and like,

00:09:25   it basically was like I was squinting the whole time.

00:09:28   It was a scene.

00:09:29   It kind of felt, I mean,

00:09:30   I've spoken to a few people about this.

00:09:32   It kind of felt like pretty trippy,

00:09:34   like I was on something.

00:09:35   It was actually, it felt pretty good

00:09:38   to have my pupils dilated like that.

00:09:40   - I was gonna say it's very unpleasant, but.

00:09:43   - You have found your new hobby, Myke.

00:09:45   - I actually kind of liked it.

00:09:47   - You want a good time?

00:09:49   Just put some drops in.

00:09:50   - Traversing London, buying computer devices,

00:09:54   without being able to see anything.

00:09:55   It was a real scene.

00:09:57   - This is the worst youth drug trend I've ever heard.

00:10:00   - Eye drops.

00:10:01   - It's not huffing paint, it's dilating your eyes.

00:10:04   - Gotta drop those eyes.

00:10:05   All right, so Stephen.

00:10:07   - No.

00:10:09   - Come on.

00:10:09   Come on.

00:10:11   You know what this is.

00:10:12   You know how this story ends.

00:10:13   - Oh, I do, because I can read the document.

00:10:15   - No, but you know how this story ends though.

00:10:17   You know what I'm saying at the end of it,

00:10:18   but give us your best shot.

00:10:20   - So where we are in the Google document

00:10:23   topic 0 colon 2017 iMac 5k versus iMac Pro parentheses story time with Steven

00:10:31   so I guess I have to talk now. I was going to buy a new computer at the end of

00:10:38   the year and I so I had a 2015 kind of mid-range i5 iMac 5k and I did a

00:10:50   spreadsheet because that's what I do in my life and looking at the base iMac

00:10:53   Pro, the 10 core iMac Pro which is what I thought I was gonna buy until I saw that

00:10:57   it was like $6,700 and the 2017 regular iMac. So I sat down looked at it all and

00:11:06   decided the iMac Pro would be nice but the the loaded 2017 would still be a big

00:11:12   upgrade over what I have and that's what I'm going to going to do. So I ordered a

00:11:19   I fully loaded 2017 27 inch 5K iMac,

00:11:24   like the i7, a terabyte SSD.

00:11:27   I added 32 gigs of RAM to it from Mac sales,

00:11:29   so I had 40 gigs of RAM.

00:11:31   Kind of a ridiculous computer.

00:11:33   But what I quickly realized--

00:11:34   - Seems like too much RAM.

00:11:35   Like I know that people can really use their RAM these days,

00:11:39   but that seems like more than you.

00:11:42   - 40 gigs is a weird number.

00:11:44   - It's a heck of a lot.

00:11:45   - But you have the eight and then you add the 32.

00:11:47   It was super fast, really nice, but the problem I had with it is that anytime I got near the

00:12:01   CPU doing anything, the single fan in the Retina iMac would spin up and it was exceptionally

00:12:09   loud, way louder than my i5, and very touchy.

00:12:13   I didn't have to be exporting in logic to do this.

00:12:17   Like, doing big file copies would do it.

00:12:19   Any time I got near the CPU, this thing would spin up.

00:12:23   I've spoken to a ton of people with this computer,

00:12:25   and some of them say their i7s do this,

00:12:28   and a bunch of people like Dan Morin says that they don't.

00:12:31   So I don't know-- - Mine doesn't.

00:12:32   I mean, I have that machine, right?

00:12:34   Like, I have a four gigahertz i7, 16 gigabytes of RAM.

00:12:37   I do not have, well, I have the late 2015,

00:12:40   so I don't have the most modern one,

00:12:42   But it's much and much the same, I think.

00:12:44   And I only ever, ever hear the fans

00:12:47   when I expect to hear them.

00:12:49   That's the only time, like, I'm doing, like,

00:12:51   some noise removal or something, right?

00:12:53   And then I hear them there.

00:12:54   - And that I'm fine with, right?

00:12:56   Like, if I'm pushing it, but I was nervous

00:12:58   that I'm gonna open a Chrome window

00:13:01   while recording a podcast,

00:13:02   and this iMac is gonna spin up.

00:13:04   So I think that, A, the i7 is more prone to this

00:13:07   than the i5 that I had.

00:13:08   That's to be expected.

00:13:09   But I think there's some variation in these iMacs,

00:13:11   and maybe I got one that was particularly touchy or particularly loud.

00:13:15   And so I spent several days with it.

00:13:18   And, you know, after you do a migration, a lot of stuff happens.

00:13:22   Like Dropbox reindexes everything, photos, resyncs everything.

00:13:25   Like a lot is going on in the background the first day or two after a migration.

00:13:28   It's like, well, let me let this settle down.

00:13:31   But it really never got to a place where I was comfortable

00:13:35   trusting this machine to be quiet when I'm recording,

00:13:38   because that's the whole point of this thing.

00:13:41   And in the meantime, having conversations with Jason Snell,

00:13:45   the devil on my shoulder, about his bass, iMac Pro,

00:13:49   about how it's silent.

00:13:51   Even under load, the only difference

00:13:52   is the air out the back gets a little warmer.

00:13:55   The iMac Pro has two fans.

00:13:57   They're much larger.

00:13:58   They're much quieter.

00:13:59   And they're always spinning, but you can't hear them.

00:14:02   And my studio is dead silent, and I cannot hear this thing.

00:14:05   Even under load, you'd never really hear it.

00:14:08   Oh, this thing, huh?

00:14:10   this thing, this iMac Pro in front of me.

00:14:12   Touching it right now.

00:14:14   - So the way that you fixed your 5K iMac problem

00:14:17   was to buy a Mac Pro.

00:14:18   - To spend another two grand.

00:14:19   - Okay, great.

00:14:20   - Spend another two grand, yeah.

00:14:21   So yeah, so I turned it, I bought the base iMac Pro.

00:14:25   You can walk into an Apple store and buy the base iMac Pro,

00:14:28   which I thought you'd have to order it,

00:14:29   and I was looking in the app store on my iPhone,

00:14:32   and I was like, oh, I can just go walk in and pick it up.

00:14:35   So I returned the custom order to the store,

00:14:39   I had purchased that one online since it has some custom stuff, returned it to the store

00:14:43   which is really nice.

00:14:44   You used to not be able to do that.

00:14:45   You used to be like, if you bought it online you had to return it online, but now you can

00:14:49   mix and match.

00:14:51   And so I've been using the iMac Pro since New Years or so, and it is the fastest Mac

00:14:58   I've ever owned by far.

00:14:59   It is dead quiet, even under like heavy load like rendering 4K video or stabilizing 4K

00:15:08   or doing isotope noise cancellation,

00:15:12   the thing doesn't make noise.

00:15:14   Now, there's been a lot of conversation,

00:15:16   including on our friend show, ATP,

00:15:18   about the iMac Pro seems to thermal throttle a little bit

00:15:23   and maybe Apple has it tuned where they would rather

00:15:26   throttle it a touch here and there

00:15:28   than have the fan spin up.

00:15:30   I'm not sure, I think it'd run a little more headroom

00:15:33   where if I am really pushing it and I know I'm pushing it,

00:15:36   I wouldn't mind if, you know,

00:15:38   It wouldn't be the end of the world if it made some noise, but like the baseline of

00:15:41   this machine, like sitting here talking to you all with Skype and Chrome and some IRC

00:15:45   app and Slack and Mail and Audio Hijack and iMessage, all this stuff open, it is not making

00:15:51   it sound.

00:15:52   And that's important to me since I make, you know, podcast files for a living.

00:15:58   Now I have a memory and I have yet to find out where I expressed this.

00:16:05   I said you would end up buying one of these.

00:16:08   - I'm sure you said it on this show.

00:16:09   - I'm sure I did.

00:16:10   - Because I believe it's the episode you called me,

00:16:13   what did you call me?

00:16:14   It was very hurtful.

00:16:15   The most indecisive person you know,

00:16:18   I think is what you called me.

00:16:19   - Yeah, something like that.

00:16:20   I mean, well, all you're doing really

00:16:22   is just giving me more evidence.

00:16:24   - It's true.

00:16:25   No, it's true.

00:16:26   And the--

00:16:28   - Okay, so maybe, it's not that you're indecisive.

00:16:30   You are just, you are always on the lookout

00:16:33   for a better thing, which is not necessarily a bad thing.

00:16:37   You demand perfection.

00:16:39   - I do.

00:16:40   - You didn't get it with the iMac 5K,

00:16:41   but now you have an iMac Pro, so I was right.

00:16:44   - It was really, you were right.

00:16:45   The iMac was really disappointing,

00:16:47   because I really, like, it was so much faster than my 2015.

00:16:52   It was three grand, as opposed to five for this thing.

00:16:57   I really thought it was gonna meet my needs,

00:17:00   and my thought was, I talked about this

00:17:02   on a Mac Power Users episode, which I sort of ruined

00:17:04   the ending of by buying this computer.

00:17:06   But what I told David and Katie was,

00:17:08   there's a lot of first gen hardware in this thing

00:17:12   and it's all new and I wanna kinda see how the dust settles

00:17:14   and I wanna see what the Mac Pro looks like.

00:17:16   Because to get into an iMac Pro, you're spending five grand.

00:17:21   If you go to the cheese grater area,

00:17:22   you could buy a Mac Pro for half that.

00:17:25   It wasn't a great Mac Pro, but you could upgrade it

00:17:26   over time and expand it over time.

00:17:29   And I hope that they do that with the new Mac Pro.

00:17:31   I hope that you could walk into an Apple store

00:17:33   and buy a Mac Pro for 2,500 or three grand.

00:17:36   I don't think that's gonna happen,

00:17:37   but I would like for it to happen.

00:17:39   I just wanted, you know, I felt like,

00:17:41   I feel a little bit like buying an iMac Pro now.

00:17:43   Like it is meeting my needs and I'm really happy with it.

00:17:46   But you are making a very expensive purchase

00:17:49   without all the cards on the table,

00:17:51   because I fully expect, we're gonna get into our predictions,

00:17:54   I fully expect that we will see the Mac Pro teased at WWDC

00:17:58   and it'll be out in the, you know, a year from now.

00:18:00   follow the same pattern the iMac Pro did.

00:18:02   And so if you're a pro Mac user, you

00:18:05   are making a decision with limited information.

00:18:07   Now, for me, I really like the all-in-one form factor.

00:18:10   I don't know-- I honestly do not know what the Mac Pro could

00:18:13   offer me that this thing doesn't that

00:18:15   would make me want to give up the all-in-one form factor

00:18:17   because it's all very nice and neat and tidy,

00:18:20   and it looks really good.

00:18:21   And I don't have anything under my desk.

00:18:23   I don't have cables everywhere.

00:18:25   And it's got the display built in.

00:18:27   And if you buy a Mac Pro, Apple's

00:18:28   going to charge you $1,000 for their new Pro Display,

00:18:31   at least.

00:18:32   So there is that argument to be made

00:18:35   that you're making a purchase without all the information

00:18:38   possible.

00:18:40   But at the same time, this has already

00:18:43   become the favorite Mac I've owned in a long time,

00:18:47   because it is so capable.

00:18:49   And the other tangible things I care about,

00:18:53   like how quiet it is, how nice the speakers are,

00:18:56   how nice the screen is. All those things are home runs. So, so far so good in iMac Pro land.

00:19:02   So I've spent a lot of time thinking and I mean I have no desire for a iMac Pro.

00:19:09   I know people that have got them now, I've heard lots about it. I have no desire for it.

00:19:14   I actually think that my next Mac will probably be the next Mac Pro because I

00:19:20   I don't really have great desire to upgrade my Mac for like having the

00:19:28   coolest Mac anymore right like I used to like how I do with my iOS devices like

00:19:34   there's devices that I want to be new and cool what I really want is a machine

00:19:39   that I can just make incrementally better over time and that's what a Mac

00:19:45   Pro hopefully will be. So I think that all I want is just to be able to upgrade

00:19:51   it when I need more performance rather than having to overhaul my entire

00:19:56   machine every time. So I would I think prefer a Mac where I

00:20:02   can easily upgrade the RAM or maybe even upgrade the GPU every two years rather

00:20:08   than upgrading, like rather than buying a brand new iMac every three years.

00:20:13   Like, I think that that's what I want.

00:20:15   - Yeah, no, I, a lot of that appeals to me.

00:20:21   Like I said, it would mean some trade-offs

00:20:23   that I'm not sure I wanna make.

00:20:24   But the iMac Pro is too far in the other direction.

00:20:26   Like, if I wanna upgrade the RAM in this thing,

00:20:28   I've gotta take it to an Apple store

00:20:30   and beat off all the people trying to get an iPhone battery

00:20:33   to have a Mac Genius crack it open and put RAM in it

00:20:36   and charge me a fortune.

00:20:38   Now, if I keep this machine for three years,

00:20:40   at some point I may do that,

00:20:42   but I can't upgrade the other stuff.

00:20:45   And that is, and Jason, I think Jason is who said this,

00:20:49   the iMac Pro is still an iMac.

00:20:52   You get all the trade-offs and all the compromises

00:20:54   that come with an iMac.

00:20:55   Now for me, those compromises are fine for now,

00:20:58   but it means certain things.

00:21:00   This is a more professional iMac.

00:21:02   It is not a Mac Pro.

00:21:04   And so if your thought process, Myke,

00:21:07   is to buy something and to, over time,

00:21:11   invest a little bit more and extend the life of it,

00:21:14   then DMACC Pro, if it follows the path we all hope it will,

00:21:17   is totally the right answer for you.

00:21:19   And it may be for me in a year, I don't know,

00:21:21   but for now, this machine is meeting my needs

00:21:24   and it's really great.

00:21:26   And I'm fine with the base model.

00:21:28   It's so much faster than DMACC have ever owned.

00:21:31   I'm not sad that I couldn't afford the 10 core.

00:21:34   - Let's see how you feel when the 18s start shipping, right?

00:21:38   - Yeah, right.

00:21:39   (laughing)

00:21:41   The other thing, too, is that the base model iMac Pro,

00:21:46   it is working in a chassis with cooling

00:21:48   that can handle up to an 18 core.

00:21:50   I've got the slowest machine designed for this cooling

00:21:53   system.

00:21:53   Whereas with the iMac--

00:21:54   This was your theory for getting this computer, is that-- sorry,

00:21:59   I'm spoiling what you're saying.

00:22:01   No, it's fine.

00:22:02   But the iMac that I had was the fastest, hottest computer

00:22:06   designed for its cooling system.

00:22:08   And maybe it's outrun that cooling system,

00:22:09   and they need to address it.

00:22:11   So I feel like this machine inside has headroom that I'm not punishing it, you know, because

00:22:16   someone with an 18-core is going to be closer to its thermal envelope than my, you know,

00:22:21   little 8-core machine.

00:22:22   I feel that that logic is really sound, and I think that's probably why you are happy

00:22:25   with this one, right?

00:22:26   Like, you are running a machine that is effectively cold for what it can be, right?

00:22:31   Like, the guts inside of your iMac Pro are fine for the cooling system, right?

00:22:39   It's like a step up from the top tier of the 5k with a bunch of holes in the back.

00:22:45   Right? Like, it's fine. It's all good.

00:22:47   Alright, let's take our first break and then it's predictions time.

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00:24:25   So last year we did our first kind of official predictions at the beginning of the year where

00:24:31   we wrote them down and tracked our progress throughout the year and then graded them in

00:24:35   our year in review.

00:24:37   We all enjoyed that process so much that we have decided that we're going to do it again

00:24:40   for this year.

00:24:42   So round robin style of course, these are our 2018 predictions.

00:24:47   We have some new rules, so there is going to be two rounds of regular picks and then

00:24:52   one round of risky picks. If you get a risky pick, you get two points, but if your risky

00:24:59   pick is wrong, you lose a regular point. So it's all to play for in the risky picks round.

00:25:05   But because there's so many high points, there's a high point situation going on here, we don't

00:25:10   want anyone to game it. So the two other co-hosts have to agree that the pick is risky enough

00:25:18   to be deemed a risky pick.

00:25:20   So like Federica can't walk in and be like,

00:25:22   "Oh, my risky pick, maybe a new iPhone next year."

00:25:25   (laughing)

00:25:26   It's like, well.

00:25:27   - Yeah, it's not risky.

00:25:29   Not a risky one.

00:25:30   - Not a risky one.

00:25:31   So we're gonna start off with Steven.

00:25:33   - So I said this a little bit earlier,

00:25:36   but I think that we will see a tease of the Mac Pro

00:25:41   at WWDC with a ship date at the end of this year.

00:25:47   So following the same sort of timeline

00:25:50   as the 2013 Mac Pro and the iMac Pro.

00:25:54   Tease this summer in San Jose,

00:25:57   release at the end of the year.

00:25:58   - So you're saying, right,

00:26:02   that the Mac Pro will ship within 2018.

00:26:05   'Cause that's the key part here, right?

00:26:09   - Yes.

00:26:10   - 'Cause you have to make it in.

00:26:12   And I don't know how I feel about that.

00:26:14   I think that WWDC will see what we saw with the trash can. I think it's going to be very

00:26:19   similar to that, where there's some moody lighting and some images and like super zoomed

00:26:26   in and like Phil Schiller says something a little bit crass again and you know, who knows

00:26:32   how he's going to step it up but maybe they're going to need to get out the bleep sound for

00:26:36   him, who knows. I think that we'll see that. I don't know how I feel about this year's

00:26:44   I don't know if that's a done deal.

00:26:46   - You think 2019 for the micro?

00:26:48   - I think it's possible.

00:26:49   I don't necessarily say that I think it's gonna be 2019,

00:26:53   but I don't know if we're, 'cause I don't know,

00:26:55   I don't think any of us know how long it takes Apple

00:26:59   to develop a computer from idea to release.

00:27:03   - This will actually be the best indication

00:27:05   of that we've ever had.

00:27:07   - Exactly. - Because, you know,

00:27:08   they always say, we've been working on this for years,

00:27:10   we've been dreaming about this for a long time, you know,

00:27:13   But we know that whenever the Mac Pro Roundtable was,

00:27:16   was that March or something?

00:27:18   - It was March or April.

00:27:19   - Sometime this spring, they said it was underway,

00:27:23   but the belief was that it was just underway.

00:27:25   And so, the reason I say this is,

00:27:28   I don't think they want to go into 2019

00:27:31   without this computer.

00:27:32   They want to, even though it's not going to sell

00:27:35   a bunch of machines, they've made such a big deal of it,

00:27:38   I think they want to get it out

00:27:39   so people stop complaining about it.

00:27:41   And my guess is--

00:27:42   - They still keep talking about it as well, right?

00:27:44   Like even in the iMac Pro PR stuff,

00:27:47   they're still talking about the Mac Pro.

00:27:49   - I think the team that's working on the Mac Pro

00:27:52   is probably just like pedal to the metal,

00:27:55   have been told you need to get this done quickly.

00:27:59   And so I feel pretty good about this.

00:28:01   I mean, it definitely could slip,

00:28:02   but I feel like this is a thing

00:28:05   that I feel comfortable picking.

00:28:07   - All right, I'm up next.

00:28:11   I think, so Stephen is upset at me because I've made it half myself again in kind of

00:28:16   picking two things in one.

00:28:18   Yeah, you've blown this one already.

00:28:21   No, no, it's fine.

00:28:22   I think that there's going to be a bigger iPhone X style phone this year, but it won't

00:28:29   have an OLED screen in it.

00:28:31   No.

00:28:32   Oh, so like the rumor that from a while back, okay.

00:28:36   Half point.

00:28:37   But the thing is though, you say this, my half points I think was what got me to being tired.

00:28:44   That's true, a bunch of half points.

00:28:46   I got a bunch of half points. But I do think that there will be an expansion to the iPhone

00:28:51   10 line this year, but I don't think that Apple have enough experience with OLED yet to make a

00:28:59   really good big phone. And that there is already enough OLED shortages of good OLED screens in the

00:29:05   the world and it's probably only gotten worse since the iPhone X that it might be really

00:29:10   hard for them to secure enough panels that maybe just pushing it off one more year might

00:29:16   be a good thing to do.

00:29:19   By the way, I thought about this device, if this device exists I am going to be in a real

00:29:23   quandary.

00:29:25   If that actually happens, yeah because I always want a bigger phone, right?

00:29:30   It's the idea, the whole idea of the Plus Club.

00:29:34   I love the OLED screen, right?

00:29:36   Like if I had to go, it'd be tricky for me

00:29:38   to make that decision, like to go back to LCD,

00:29:43   because one of my favorite things about my iPhone now

00:29:47   is all of the apps that I have that use the true black,

00:29:50   right, like I love it.

00:29:52   So like I was, when me and Nadina

00:29:55   was setting up her phone yesterday,

00:29:56   she uses a bunch of apps that I use,

00:29:58   and I was turning all those settings on for her,

00:29:59   she's like, "Oh, I really like this."

00:30:00   Like it's really nice.

00:30:02   and I would be very sad to lose that if I went to a phone that didn't have it again.

00:30:07   No, you're going to get the 10+ anyway with the OLED.

00:30:11   So this is my prediction, so don't count my point.

00:30:14   But like, predictions aren't what I want, right?

00:30:17   Like they're just what I think will happen.

00:30:18   What I really want is a bigger iPhone X with an OLED screen.

00:30:22   Like, that would be incredible.

00:30:24   Yeah, I just don't know how Apple announces a new iPhone X

00:30:29   And they're like, oh, it has an LCD after praising OLED so heavily.

00:30:34   They will say it has one of the best, it has the best LCD screen we have ever made.

00:30:39   Right. That's what they'll be like.

00:30:41   And I'll say we have this incredible iPhone 10 with a beautiful super retina display.

00:30:45   And now we have like this one with the hyper retina display.

00:30:48   They just give it, you know, it's just like a new name.

00:30:50   And it's just big LCD.

00:30:52   I don't know if they could walk that back.

00:30:53   I don't know. I wonder if maybe...

00:30:55   I don't buy it.

00:30:57   I wonder if maybe they could do something like instead of keeping the current iPhone X around

00:31:04   and making it cheaper, they sort of remake the iPhone X and make it cheaper because it doesn't have an OLED display.

00:31:12   But you know how they...

00:31:13   10C, put it in a bunch of different colors.

00:31:16   Yeah, basically.

00:31:17   That thinking is how you end up with an iPhone 11, which is the new version of the X,

00:31:23   and then like an iPhone XS or something, which is two LCD phones and they replace the A+

00:31:31   so like that's how you could end up getting there. So we'll see.

00:31:36   So I'm up next and I'm going to say that iOS 12 or whatever it's called but the next version

00:31:43   of iOS will have a focus on speed and how Apple made it faster. So I think there will be one of

00:31:55   the 10 poll features, it'll be on a slide and Apple will specifically call out the fact that

00:32:01   iOS 12 they focused on making it faster and making it perform better thanks to various optimizations

00:32:09   And I think this will happen sort of to counter the narrative around iOS 11

00:32:14   and how problematic it's been for so many people this update cycle,

00:32:18   whether it was about the battery or,

00:32:21   you know, the fact that Apple was slowing down the older iPhones

00:32:24   and even maybe to an extent all these mitigations for Spectre and

00:32:28   Meltdown that are sort of making these chips a little slower.

00:32:33   But I think they Apple wants to counter this narrative and say,

00:32:38   This year's update you're going to want to upgrade because not only do you get new features,

00:32:43   not only do you get maybe new design, I'm not going to count new design in my prediction however,

00:32:47   and not only do you get new emoji but you get a faster phone. And now I believe this could happen

00:32:54   either in a bunch of ways, maybe it could be a series of optimizations for example every single

00:33:02   framework is moving to Swift or maybe it's going to feel faster because all new iPhones

00:33:08   get the promotion display or maybe the new UI framework which is rumored it'll be so much faster

00:33:15   all the animations all the transitions will be faster than before but I believe that Apple wants

00:33:21   to call out the fact that they've been working on making iOS faster and feel faster and be faster

00:33:29   even from a technical point of view.

00:33:31   And I'm going to say that maybe we will also get more

00:33:37   settings and options to control the fact that, you know,

00:33:43   it's become common knowledge to say if your phone feels slow,

00:33:47   just wipe it and restore the operating system.

00:33:50   And I don't think that Apple likes that.

00:33:52   So maybe we will also see a feature like a built in cash

00:33:56   delete option because most of the time this idea of wiping your phone, it goes mostly,

00:34:03   it's related to the fact of wiping all the app caches that you have on your device.

00:34:08   And so I wonder if maybe there will be new settings to control that aspect without having to do a restore.

00:34:13   And I bet that like if they do this some of the focus would be on it's faster for everyone, right?

00:34:20   Like no matter how old your phone is, that kind of thing.

00:34:23   Yeah.

00:34:25   I think it would make sense based upon the narrative, especially over the last few months.

00:34:29   I think there's room for them to give users better tools to manage this sort of thing.

00:34:34   Like saying, just reinstall iOS and put your stuff back on it.

00:34:40   People have to know how to do that.

00:34:43   And it's not the easiest process in the world.

00:34:46   And so maybe even making that simpler could be useful.

00:34:50   But at the very least, I think having some tools to manage things would be good.

00:34:57   Alright, we're now entering round two of regular picks, not risky ones.

00:35:05   And I think Myke is up first.

00:35:08   An Apple Watch with an Always On Display.

00:35:12   That's kind of a risky one though.

00:35:13   It is.

00:35:14   So that feels like a risky pick.

00:35:15   It is.

00:35:16   I'll tell you why I've gone with this.

00:35:19   Okay. If Apple are gonna add any feature to the Apple Watch, this is probably the next one.

00:35:28   This should be it. Right? Like, this is what I expect every Apple Watch user will be like,

00:35:34   "Oh yeah, now it's way better." Like, how people did with LTE. If you're gonna make a change,

00:35:40   this would probably be the change that you would make. So that's why I've gone with it here. I

00:35:46   I admit it is a little bit risky, but I'm comfortable with it in just my logic that

00:35:53   if they're going to make a big change it would be this.

00:35:55   It's either this or a complete redesign of the Apple Watch.

00:36:00   Should I add that to your pick?

00:36:02   Nope.

00:36:03   Please don't do that.

00:36:04   Please.

00:36:05   No.

00:36:06   Please don't.

00:36:07   Okay, I mean if I'm getting an "or" then I kind of get an extra pick, but whatever.

00:36:11   I think that based upon Apple's trend of the last three or four years, they're more likely

00:36:17   I think to add a feature and keep the design the same than they are to redesign and start

00:36:24   from scratch again.

00:36:26   And I would love to see some kind of always on display in the Apple Watch because I think

00:36:30   even my current one could handle it.

00:36:32   Like I don't think it would be too killer on a battery that just will never die on me.

00:36:38   Like the current Apple Watch battery,

00:36:40   I mean I charge mine every day because I just take it off

00:36:42   and put it on the charging stand.

00:36:44   I never ever get problems.

00:36:46   Like I can travel across the globe, right?

00:36:48   I can be awake for 24 hours and I have 65% battery life left

00:36:53   like this is not a problem anymore.

00:36:57   Apple have given themselves so much room now

00:36:59   and I genuinely believe that one of the reasons for that

00:37:03   is so they can have some kind of always on display.

00:37:06   So let me ask you this.

00:37:07   Go on. Would you rather have the same Apple Watch design that is thick but has the

00:37:15   always on display because it needs the battery so the design cannot change yet?

00:37:19   Or would you want a redesigned Apple Watch that is thinner and it's got a new design,

00:37:25   new look, but it doesn't have the always on display?

00:37:28   Personally, I would prefer the always on display because I am I in a daily usage basis,

00:37:35   I have no problem with the Apple Watch's design.

00:37:38   Right? Like, it's fine. I'm used to it.

00:37:41   Like, I live with it.

00:37:42   I would get more personally out of just being able to look at my wrist and see what I need to see

00:37:49   rather than having to raise it every single time

00:37:52   than I would for having it be a little bit thinner and maybe a little more sleek.

00:37:56   Like, just personally from the device.

00:37:58   Like, it... because like, if I am... if I want to get the best looking watch,

00:38:02   like, Apple's probably never gonna make that.

00:38:04   Right, like, no, because I could just go to a watch company and buy a really nice watch.

00:38:09   Right, like, it's not, I'm not wearing this so I look the best. Like, because then I,

00:38:14   then I have made a fatal flaw in my purchasing. I'm wearing this because of its utility,

00:38:21   and anything that makes it more useful to me is a good thing.

00:38:24   What would you do in that sense Federico?

00:38:29   I'm not sure. I think I would go with the new design because I get the appeal.

00:38:35   I get the appeal of the always on display, but honestly raising my wrist, it tends to work 90%

00:38:41   of the time. I think there's an overlap between the same people who complain about Face ID not

00:38:48   working tend to be the same people who also complain about race, whatever it's called,

00:38:53   not working and for me like 90% of the time it works well and it's fine and it's not like

00:38:59   I'm constantly looking at the time. Okay but I'm not saying it doesn't work because it works

00:39:04   it works all the time for me but I would prefer to not have to do it. Like if I have my hands

00:39:09   typing on my keyboard or whatever or like I'm doing something and I want to see the time I

00:39:15   would prefer to be able to just look because that's that was what it was like with watches

00:39:19   I used to wear. That was what it was like with my pebble, right? Like, I would prefer that.

00:39:24   But like, but yeah, it doesn't not work. It actually, it is more reliable for me than the

00:39:29   iPhones race to wake. Yeah, I guess it's just not that big of a problem to me and I would very much

00:39:36   prefer a new design so to always see something that is new and, you know, so I can show it off

00:39:42   and just have something cool and new and, you know, it's been three years, I would rather get

00:39:47   the new design personally. Okay I think that those two things I would be very

00:39:53   happy with both of them but I just think for me personally I would prefer the

00:39:57   always-on. All right Federico it is your pick. All right I think the new Apple

00:40:05   streaming service for movies and TV shows actually maybe just movies I don't

00:40:10   know but for TV shows I mean will be announced in 2018 and it'll probably be

00:40:16   called Apple Video. I think it will have one to two months for free just like it

00:40:24   happened for Apple Music but maybe not three months but just maybe one. I'm

00:40:29   wondering if maybe there should be a trial of like four to six weeks

00:40:32   basically and so I'm not sure if we will see an announcement to WWDC because I

00:40:37   don't know if Apple wants to repeat you know kind of the criticism that they saw

00:40:42   with the Apple Music announcement at the end of a developer conference. It's a

00:40:46   Maybe it'll be a separate event.

00:40:47   Maybe it'll be announced in September, I don't know.

00:40:50   But anyway, I think we'll see Apple Video

00:40:53   with a roster of new TV shows.

00:40:56   I've been following the news a lot about this.

00:40:58   I've been listening to Upgrade where you always, Myke,

00:41:00   have an excellent discussion with Jason about this.

00:41:03   - Thank you.

00:41:03   - And I think 2018 is the year

00:41:05   that we'll get this announcement.

00:41:07   And also maybe an option to bundle your subscription

00:41:11   with Apple Music.

00:41:12   So instead of paying $20 every month,

00:41:15   pay like 15 or 16 and you get both services. I'm really excited about this, especially following

00:41:21   all the news that we've seen and we read on Variety and other entertainment publications

00:41:27   over the past few weeks. I think this should be really interesting to see this year.

00:41:31   I think it's very curious that in your pick you have specifically named it. That seems like a...

00:41:38   That's your risky part, I think.

00:41:41   Yeah, it's a real mic move.

00:41:43   Yeah, that is a real mic move. You've really gone for that one.

00:41:46   This is gonna be a half point. I really feel it.

00:41:49   It's gonna be a half point because I got the name wrong.

00:41:51   Everything else, I think you've just hit it on the head. But the naming, I agree that that's

00:41:59   probably what they will call it, Apple Video. But I could see, you know what I was gonna say?

00:42:05   They could call it Apple Watch. No, they won't call it that.

00:42:08   that. They already have that. Facebook have a video platform that they're calling Facebook

00:42:13   Watch, which I think is such a short sighted name. Like I think that's such a silly idea.

00:42:18   Facebook watches you.

00:42:20   But just because there are smart watches now. Like I feel like that is like a namespace

00:42:26   which is all taken up. But anyway, yeah, I do agree. I think that it is coming this year

00:42:33   and I think that that proposition, what they will offer, you know, a couple of months free,

00:42:38   ties this exactly what I did with Apple Music and bundling it I think makes a lot of sense.

00:42:43   I reckon we may see something like a real big bundle including iCloud storage space

00:42:49   or something when they do that.

00:42:51   I think that would be nice.

00:42:52   Like you just pay one fee to Apple and it includes a bunch of stuff.

00:42:56   That would be good.

00:42:57   Yeah.

00:42:58   Okay.

00:42:59   I think I'm going to make the first iPad related pick.

00:43:03   I don't think you guys have yet.

00:43:07   And I'm gonna say that the iPad mini will remain stagnant through 2018.

00:43:17   No new iPad mini.

00:43:19   No updates, no price drops, nothing.

00:43:22   Just there.

00:43:23   I'm just gonna say no new iPad mini.

00:43:26   I don't know about a price drop.

00:43:27   I mean, it'd be nice if it did.

00:43:29   No new iPad mini hardware.

00:43:32   No new iPad mini hardware.

00:43:34   So changes to the price or the configuration, like maybe if Apple replaces it with a higher

00:43:41   storage option, that doesn't count.

00:43:44   There has to be a new model of the iPad mini.

00:43:47   Right, yeah, they can tinker with this one, but no, you know, no CPU in it, no new screen

00:43:53   or anything like that.

00:43:54   All right.

00:43:55   Okay.

00:43:56   I think it makes sense.

00:43:57   It makes me sad.

00:43:58   Yeah.

00:43:59   I mean, it's a device I still think some people want,

00:44:03   but I think it's gonna go the way the iPod touched

00:44:05   and just sit for a really long time.

00:44:07   - I was thinking about the iPad mini for my picks

00:44:10   and I couldn't decide whether I wanted to go

00:44:12   for a risky pick of like them either killing it

00:44:15   or making a new one.

00:44:16   I figured it was both.

00:44:19   'Cause I have no idea. - It can kind of go

00:44:21   either way. - I have no idea.

00:44:23   - The beauty of the way I've structured my pick

00:44:25   is if they kill it, I'm not wrong, so.

00:44:28   Interesting. Interesting. We're clearly finding out that the wording, the wording can get you

00:44:35   that point, but you're right. Yeah. If they kill it, then yeah, that's, that's also correct.

00:44:40   I like that. What you don't see listener is Steven is now writing, if it is killed, I'm

00:44:44   not wrong into the document because he just wants to make sure that when it comes to grading

00:44:49   time, he gets those sweet, sweet points.

00:44:52   That's right.

00:44:53   - The only way that it's gonna be wrong

00:44:55   if Apple actually makes a new iPad mini.

00:44:59   But it has to be a new model with a new CPU,

00:45:01   not a storage bump, not a price change, but a new model.

00:45:06   - I would say the way that we decide this

00:45:09   is if there is ever a press release or an announcement

00:45:13   where they say the new iPad mini.

00:45:15   Doesn't matter what's inside it or what it looks like,

00:45:18   but it is referred to as a new thing.

00:45:21   Because like the iPad, that 329 iPad wasn't particularly new.

00:45:26   - Well, it was new though, it was new.

00:45:29   - We all know what a new model is, right?

00:45:31   Like we all understand that if they add a 32 gig option

00:45:34   all of a sudden that's not a new iPad mini.

00:45:36   We understand what a new iPad mini is.

00:45:36   - But what if they take the current iPad mini

00:45:39   and they throw like an A10 in it?

00:45:42   - That's a new one.

00:45:43   - That's a new one.

00:45:45   - Okay.

00:45:45   - Yeah.

00:45:46   - All right, fine.

00:45:47   Okay, cool.

00:45:48   - New CPU.

00:45:49   - That's kind of our baseline, right?

00:45:50   New CPU.

00:45:50   But even if they change the camera, I would say that's a new one.

00:45:54   Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:45:55   Okay, I tell you what.

00:45:57   If they do something where we believe they have to manufacture it differently, then it is new.

00:46:04   And doing something like giving it a better camera.

00:46:07   Yeah.

00:46:08   Okay.

00:46:08   Yeah, that's totally fair.

00:46:10   Yeah, that would be a new model.

00:46:11   Alright.

00:46:12   Yeah, but storage?

00:46:13   No, that doesn't count and I agree with that.

00:46:15   It doesn't count.

00:46:16   Because they just fiddle with that all the time.

00:46:17   Yeah, it's like whatever.

00:46:19   Storage doesn't exist anyway, it's all a lie, it's all in the cloud.

00:46:22   I think that's how it goes. Today's show is brought to you by Squarespace. Use the offer code

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00:47:46   Alright, so we now enter our risky picks round.

00:47:50   So I'll just reiterate at this point.

00:47:52   The risky picks, you get two points if one is correct,

00:47:56   but you will lose a point if you get it wrong.

00:47:59   So you can get some real gains, but also some real disadvantages.

00:48:03   And Federico, you're first up on risky picks.

00:48:05   Alright.

00:48:06   So, I think we will see workflow 2.

00:48:11   Don't count the name as a prediction, but a new version of workflow, either as a built in system feature in the next version of iOS or a brand new app that you still need to install from the App Store.

00:48:25   Or it's built in, but not as a feature, but as an app on your home screen. That's what I mean.

00:48:33   I think it will be heavy on Siri integration.

00:48:36   So you will be able to create your own routines

00:48:39   or workflows or actions that you then summon via Siri,

00:48:43   but it'll also retain the productivity features

00:48:45   that an automation features

00:48:47   that we've had in workflow so far.

00:48:49   Ideally, this should be an entire automation framework

00:48:55   for pro apps that would be able to talk to each other

00:48:57   and to create, for example, custom menus

00:49:00   and custom extensions that they can interact

00:49:03   with multiple apps together.

00:49:05   I think the App Store version will be kept around

00:49:09   for a while to allow people to migrate

00:49:11   from the old version to the new one.

00:49:13   And there will probably be, if Apple does this,

00:49:17   there will be a migration tool

00:49:19   so that you can move your old workflows

00:49:21   to the new app, to the new version.

00:49:23   I'm really excited about what the workflow team

00:49:26   has been up to.

00:49:27   They've sort of been quiet for the past several months.

00:49:30   I know that we've had workflow updates,

00:49:32   but they haven't been as big as the updates

00:49:35   that we used to get by the workflow team

00:49:38   before the acquisition.

00:49:39   So something is clearly up

00:49:41   and I think we will get some workflow news this year.

00:49:45   I'm really hopeful that it's going to be

00:49:48   the kind of major update that I've always been hoping for.

00:49:53   - You have given us something that is impossible to score

00:49:57   because you have four things.

00:49:59   We need to whittle down what we're actually

00:50:02   storing you on here. - Okay, here's my list.

00:50:03   Workflow 2 will appear either as a feature

00:50:07   or as a standalone app on the home screen of iOS 12.

00:50:11   It'll have serial integration,

00:50:13   but it'll also have the standard automation features

00:50:18   with the framework for apps to,

00:50:21   like an API that they can take advantage of.

00:50:24   - All right, so we are in a third points situation

00:50:28   with you here. - Yes.

00:50:29   see how that comes but there are three parts so workflow 2 will appear it

00:50:33   doesn't matter how it will just appear right or something that we can clearly

00:50:37   see is the follow-up to workflow right heavy on on Siri integration but also a

00:50:44   framework like it like workflow kit or something to that effect. That is

00:50:49   that is thirsty. That is bold like when you put the risky picks in place I wasn't

00:50:55   expecting this risky. That's a big one. I don't think 2018 for this. I think

00:51:03   this is all coming. But I think 2019. Mm-hmm. Let's see. Let's see.

00:51:10   Alright, Steven? It's bold. It is bold. My risky pick, and I don't think it

00:51:17   seems like a risky pick, so I'm going to defend it after I state my pick. But I

00:51:22   I think that we could see an iTunes rewrite for Mac OS.

00:51:27   And the reason I think it's risky,

00:51:29   or that could be considered risky,

00:51:30   is because there are lots of people who would say

00:51:32   that Apple shouldn't make that investment

00:51:34   on the Mac at this point,

00:51:35   that it's a really big, I mean a huge project,

00:51:38   and why would they spend that effort

00:51:40   on Mac OS at this point in its life.

00:51:43   But I think that if they want

00:51:45   Apple Music to be like a first class citizen on the Mac,

00:51:50   they've gotta do this.

00:51:51   You know, we talked about this,

00:51:52   switched to Apple Music, I'm all in, and it's sort of weird on the Mac because iTunes kind

00:51:57   of treats it like the old iCloud Music library and there's like lots of confusion in places

00:52:02   in the app about what's happening and where files are and that sort of thing.

00:52:07   And I think that the Mac would benefit from this, but I think I don't know if Apple sees

00:52:11   it that way.

00:52:12   I don't know if Apple sees it as an important thing to do, but I keep thinking about it

00:52:17   so it's my risky pick.

00:52:20   I want to do some clarification on this.

00:52:23   If they make an app called music and an app called like iPhone utility.

00:52:30   Yeah.

00:52:31   I think.

00:52:33   Does that count?

00:52:34   Because the way I'm reading this is there has to be an app called iTunes.

00:52:39   So I will say iTunes rewrite or replacement.

00:52:42   Okay.

00:52:43   I think that's more in line with what I'm thinking.

00:52:45   But there is a thing.

00:52:46   I agree with you.

00:52:47   I think that would totally count.

00:52:48   that is new which is iTunes either in name or in function.

00:52:56   Spiritual succession.

00:52:58   So I agree this is risky because this has been like a 10-year wish at this point.

00:53:05   Yeah, that's the other side of this, right? Like it's either gonna happen or it's never gonna happen.

00:53:10   And the fact that it constantly comes up whenever we talk about what we think should or might happen at WWDC

00:53:18   I think that it's evergreen. It's evergreen. Because there is no specific reason that it will be this year more than last year or the year before or the year before.

00:53:29   Yeah. That's the brilliance of it if I'm right.

00:53:32   Alright, so my one, my risky pick.

00:53:36   iOS 12 will feature a large-scale UI redesign across iOS, the biggest since iOS 7.

00:53:43   That's a bold one, but I'll tell you what, I agree with you and it makes total sense.

00:53:47   Do you know why? Because we are basically as far from iOS 7 as we were from iOS 1.

00:53:54   It's like my thinking.

00:53:55   And also because we have like five different design languages on iOS, right?

00:53:59   There are so many design languages.

00:54:00   So that's my question.

00:54:01   And time, right? Like it's the fact that I feel like from a design perspective, we are

00:54:08   very far away from iOS 7 now and also we're coming up on a similar kind of time frame

00:54:14   and I feel like that these time frames would get shorter over time right that it wouldn't

00:54:20   I don't think that we would be waiting for iOS 14 for the next big redesign I feel like

00:54:26   they should get shorter over time and I think that purely based upon the fact that

00:54:34   iOS design is kind of all over the place right now and I'm seeing a lot of UI designers

00:54:40   kind of wishing for skeuomorphism again that I think it might be time for a shakeup.

00:54:48   Yeah that's been going on for a while, designers wishing that you go back to the days of drop

00:54:54   shadows and 3D elements and stuff like that but I feel like there was sort of a movement of

00:55:01   nostalgic UI designers, but over time, most of the people that I follow have kind of settled on

00:55:08   evolving the flat design language into something that is not as keomorphic as it used to be,

00:55:15   but somewhere in between, you know, with some...

00:55:18   It has some character to it, right?

00:55:19   Character with color and animation and, you know, different transitions,

00:55:24   some use of shadows, for example. So I think it's time, I agree with you, I think it's time for

00:55:29   unified design language that feels fresh, feels new, is shared across all these multiple devices

00:55:36   that Apple has, this entire ecosystem on the TV, on the watch, on the phone, on the iPad.

00:55:41   I think it's time, I think it makes subtle sense and you're probably gonna get these two points,

00:55:45   Myke. We'll see. So I want to clarify it a little bit. Is this, what if Apple takes one of their

00:55:54   17 different design paradigms that ship in their apps and just make that the universal

00:56:02   look.

00:56:03   I don't think that's a large scale UI redesign.

00:56:05   I think the way that we would grade this is depending on how much time they spend at WWDC

00:56:10   talking about it.

00:56:11   Yeah.

00:56:12   Like if they are like, this is iOS 12's new design, right?

00:56:18   And I think it doesn't matter if it looks like something that already exists, but like

00:56:23   all of the apps change, like all of the remaining apps conform.

00:56:27   - It's like it's in the state of the union,

00:56:28   how to lay apps out in this design.

00:56:31   - It's like if every app that Apple makes

00:56:33   gets those huge title bars,

00:56:35   because they don't all have them, right?

00:56:37   Then I think that that would count if they're like,

00:56:39   we want your apps to look like this.

00:56:42   And I also think that, you know, Federica,

00:56:44   you've spoken about this a bit,

00:56:45   and I'm definitely in agreement with you,

00:56:48   that the iPhone, and Giancarlo in his review

00:56:52   of the iPhone X recently said a very similar type of thing, that like some of the changes

00:56:59   that the iPhone X after a year will show will inform iOS design, right? Like there are ways

00:57:07   to design for that phone which could be and should be different but haven't been fully

00:57:12   realised yet and it probably requires a new version of iOS to make that change. So I think

00:57:20   That's just another reason why it would be now.

00:57:23   So we'll see.

00:57:23   So we're moving to extra picks.

00:57:26   These are just things that we think are gonna happen,

00:57:29   but we're not getting any points for these,

00:57:31   but it's just for bragging rights.

00:57:33   Stuff that we think is gonna occur.

00:57:35   - Bragging rights.

00:57:35   - That's all it is, right?

00:57:36   They're like, we come to this time next year,

00:57:39   and we're like, see, I told you.

00:57:41   So Federico, you go first.

00:57:43   - Reminders will get a major redesign.

00:57:46   So new look for reminders.

00:57:48   feel like this has been a long time coming. It has to be one of the most

00:57:52   popular apps on iOS because people, I see people using Notes and Reminders all the

00:57:56   time but Reminders still look kind of weird like iOS 7 designers not

00:58:03   fully committed to ditching the old paper texture. Also comparing Reminders and

00:58:09   Notes is interesting but Reminders didn't get good in the way that Notes did.

00:58:14   Yep. Exactly. Notes got good. Reminders kind of mostly stayed the same. If it works for

00:58:20   you that's awesome, but they didn't... Apple have not spent a significant amount of time

00:58:25   adding features to reminders like they did with Notes a couple of years ago.

00:58:30   And there's just so much potential, whether it's about attaching different types of items

00:58:34   to a reminder or even tagging using the same design in iOS 11 of files and mail, for example,

00:58:43   enhancing the way that you do sharing or checking in with Siri,

00:58:49   especially now with the coming of the HomePod, I can imagine in a family setting

00:58:54   how you could, for example, everybody could check in on the shopping list that is saved in Reminders.

00:59:00   I just think there's just so much, and even on the iPad, things that you could do with drag and drop

00:59:06   and integration with other apps.

00:59:08   I feel like Reminders has been neglected since iOS 8 after the iOS 7 redesign.

00:59:16   And I think it's time that Apple gives it some attention.

00:59:19   I could probably say Calendar too, but Calendars are boring.

00:59:23   So I'm gonna go with Reminders. I wanna see a major Reminders redesign.

00:59:27   I think that Reminders design is infuriating.

00:59:34   that card design. I've never liked it and every time I've ever tried to use that app, I just

00:59:43   don't know how to get to anything. I really do not like it. I do really want them to drop the paper

00:59:50   look in those as well. Like, please, please. It doesn't do anything.

00:59:56   I know that you do a pen show, Myke, so you have a...

01:00:00   I have a special affinity for paper, yeah.

01:00:03   Yes, but honestly like all these metaphors they don't work anymore. Like young people they don't

01:00:11   write to-do lists down on paper or if they do it's not because they love paper. So these throwbacks

01:00:19   they used to work 10 years ago they used to work 15 years ago and they were awesome because they

01:00:24   helped people familiarize themselves with computers but now people know computers and they know

01:00:32   smartphones. So I feel like at some point it becomes a limitation to, you know, and

01:00:37   this is the same discussion that we had in 2013 for iOS 7, but even more so

01:00:41   today, you know, in the age of voice assistants and, you know, machine

01:00:48   learnings and the echo and all these modern technologies, we're still thinking

01:00:52   about paper, I mean, come on. So I think we need to...

01:00:55   - Notes used to have that design where it looked like a folio, right? And like you'd tuck things into the side of it, and it was

01:01:01   like legal pad yeah yeah wow yeah let's never go back to that.

01:01:07   People know how to use a sidebar. Unless it's like a little leather pocket I don't know if people can get it.

01:01:14   I'm not sure how I'm supposed to do with my hand here.

01:01:19   Alright Stephen. So I'm going to to go in with what I'm gonna call German kit

01:01:28   until we're given an official name.

01:01:30   Okay.

01:01:31   You could have called it the Gkit.

01:01:33   Could have been another name.

01:01:35   German Gkit. Gkit's good.

01:01:38   The AppKit and UIKit will give birth to something new and cross-platform.

01:01:42   We don't know what that looks like beyond his reporting,

01:01:45   but the idea that Apple has some sort of next generation platform framework

01:01:50   for developers to have one app that runs on the Mac and on the iPad and on the iPhone,

01:01:56   I think that's something that we could, maybe if we don't see it completely, maybe we see the beginning steps of it this summer at WBCC.

01:02:05   I think this is an inevitability. It's just a fact of timing. Like, maybe, I believe probably this year, but I think it's just a fact of timing.

01:02:14   I'm going to go for my constant evergreen pick that I'll keep picking forever.

01:02:18   Here we go!

01:02:19   New Apple Pencil with some kind of button on it that does something.

01:02:24   You know what, I saw someone, I think it may have been Dr. Wave on Twitter, I was talking about this the other day, and I agree so much.

01:02:31   I would honestly just like an on and off button on the Apple Pencil so the battery would last, because if you do what I do, which is use like a pen loop to keep it attached,

01:02:39   the battery dies real quick because it's keeping the connection running, right, because there's like a proximity thing.

01:02:45   I would love to be able to just hit a button on the Apple Pencil to turn it on and then start using it.

01:02:51   there are ways you could do it like unpairing the Bluetooth, but that doesn't work.

01:02:55   And then I had I thought I had a great idea,

01:02:58   which is to turn Bluetooth off on my iPad.

01:03:00   But because of the wonders of iOS 11, it doesn't actually kill the connection.

01:03:05   Actually, it keeps the connection.

01:03:08   It gives you a little pop up, tells you, oh, don't worry, don't worry.

01:03:12   The Apple pencil will stay connected.

01:03:14   It's like, oh, gosh. OK, thank you.

01:03:16   I worry. I want to worry because you're not doing what

01:03:19   Because I came to the realisation that the only thing that I need Bluetooth for on my

01:03:23   iPad is my Apple Pencil. So like, I could just turn it off and leave it off. I mean,

01:03:27   I use my AirPods sometimes, but it would be so... I always have to like do the thing where

01:03:32   you do the pairing, so like just hitting another button wouldn't hurt anyway. But anyway. So

01:03:36   yeah, a new Apple Pencil, I think it's time. Please make one out of aluminium and put a

01:03:41   button on it.

01:03:44   This would have been a nice risky pick, Myke, but I understand why it's not.

01:03:52   My next prediction, we're going to see a new smart keyboard.

01:03:55   I also think it's time that Apple changes the design of this accessory and I think we

01:04:00   will see a new material, maybe a backlit model.

01:04:05   Because Logitech is doing a bunch of these, it's obviously possible with a keyboard connector.

01:04:12   And also maybe it'll have a dedicated Siri key on the keyboard itself.

01:04:17   I think it makes sense, especially if Apple expands the textual, the type to Siri feature

01:04:23   that it's in iOS 11, if it maybe becomes like a standalone mode, not an accessibility feature,

01:04:29   it will make sense to have a Siri key on the keyboard so that you can just tap it once

01:04:33   and you type to Siri and you're done.

01:04:36   I really want to see a new Spark keyboard, but I also think it's time that Apple, I think

01:04:42   this should be a safe prediction.

01:04:45   If Apple is working on new iPads,

01:04:47   I would be really surprised if they don't come

01:04:50   with a new smart keyboard design.

01:04:51   - I want this to, for the same reason

01:04:55   I want the Apple Pencil.

01:04:56   - Yeah.

01:04:59   - All right, Stephen.

01:05:00   - Just, this is the Hail Mary,

01:05:04   because there's no points attached to it,

01:05:06   but you know, maybe a iPod touch update.

01:05:10   - What would you do to it?

01:05:11   make it bigger, I think, to match

01:05:15   4.7 inch. It has the A8

01:05:19   in it, I think.

01:05:22   I don't know. This is one of those things that could just go away

01:05:27   too, I guess, because I don't know how many they're selling, but I feel like if they're going to

01:05:31   update it

01:05:32   again, I mean, this summer is three years.

01:05:36   And it's got the A8 in it.

01:05:41   I think if they're going to do it, it's time.

01:05:43   So, if they don't do it, then it just goes away, that's fine too, but I think if it's

01:05:47   everyone getting an update again, this is the year that they do it.

01:05:52   I want to see bezel-less iPod Touch.

01:05:56   That's all I want.

01:05:57   Just give me an iPod Touch with a notch on it.

01:05:59   The iPod notch.

01:06:00   It would be beautiful.

01:06:01   It would be tiny.

01:06:05   My extra pick on iOS 12, the iPad home screen will feature more than just app icons.

01:06:12   Ooh, fancy!

01:06:15   You gave me trouble about iTunes re-writer replacement being an evergreen pick.

01:06:20   This has been desired for 12 years.

01:06:24   I tell you why I went for it now.

01:06:26   They added so much in iOS 11.

01:06:30   If you want to add an iPad feature, there aren't many big ones other than a shelf that

01:06:35   you can add.

01:06:39   Big obvious stuff that's been something people have wanted for a while.

01:06:44   Not like little enhancements to files, right?

01:06:46   Not like this or that, but big things where you can point to and be like, "See, they're

01:06:51   still working on the iPad."

01:06:52   I feel like this could be one of them.

01:06:55   Even just adding widgets.

01:06:56   It doesn't have to be a ton.

01:06:59   This is where I struggle.

01:07:01   What do they add beyond widgets?

01:07:03   Is that it?

01:07:04   Is that all that's out there?

01:07:05   Drag and droppable widgets.

01:07:06   So like being able to drag a file onto a Dropbox widget and it uploads, like that's something

01:07:11   that I would like.

01:07:12   You mean workflows.

01:07:13   Actions of the home screen.

01:07:14   I do most certainly mean workflows.

01:07:16   I do most certainly mean those.

01:07:18   Yeah.

01:07:19   I honestly think like interactive widgets, whether they are actions or like lists of

01:07:26   data basically what a widget is right now or document previous.

01:07:30   I would love my calendar widget and my toggle widgets just on the home screen rather than

01:07:36   moving backwards and forwards. So you know this isn't going to shatter the earth but

01:07:43   I think if they were able to do this it would look like they're still focused on the iPad.

01:07:51   Because I really don't want a lot for the iPad from iOS 12, I just want them to sand

01:07:56   off the edges of iOS 11.

01:07:59   There's a bunch of work I would like to do on files, which I will talk about this at

01:08:03   some point on the show, like what I want to see Apple do with files, because I have a

01:08:08   lot of things that they should be fixing and a lot of things they can add that I need to

01:08:11   start writing a list.

01:08:14   But I don't need a lot.

01:08:18   I want some bug fixes and some feature which is a sign of life.

01:08:21   That's all I personally want from iOS 12 for the iPad.

01:08:26   I have a final prediction here.

01:08:31   And this connects to Steven's actual pick.

01:08:35   But I think Apple Video and Apple Music will finally have dedicated apps everywhere.

01:08:40   So Apple Video for Mac and iOS and Apple Music for Mac and iOS.

01:08:45   So basically what I'm saying is music and video removed from iTunes and at that point

01:08:49   I'm not sure what iTunes on the Mac is anymore.

01:08:52   So this is why, yeah, or I don't know podcasts maybe?

01:08:58   I have no idea.

01:08:59   So yeah Apple Video and Apple Music both apps on the Mac and iOS.

01:09:05   So that's it.

01:09:06   That's our picks.

01:09:07   We will be, if and when any of these things happen throughout the year we will address

01:09:12   it, but we will be doing points scoring in our last show of the year before the year

01:09:20   in review, right? I guess that's when we'll do this. So we've got all the way until the

01:09:24   end of the year, especially with StevensMac Pro. I mean, that could happen all the way

01:09:28   up to December 31st, I think, potentially. It could be all the way up there. All right,

01:09:33   we have one last topic today, which I'm pretty excited about. But first, I want to thank

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01:11:23   So it is CES time and me and Federico wanted to talk about some of the trends that we have

01:11:31   have seen over the first few days of CES

01:11:35   and why they are interesting to us.

01:11:37   Steven doesn't--

01:11:38   - Steven doesn't want to.

01:11:39   - Doesn't want to do this.

01:11:41   But me and Federico are keen to talk about

01:11:44   a couple of these things.

01:11:45   - Here's, because you have taken what I said

01:11:49   and blown it out of proportion.

01:11:50   My overall problem with CES,

01:11:55   and like, a lot of this stuff is really interesting,

01:11:58   especially the smart assistant stuff,

01:12:00   and I think it's super problematic that Apple's not there yet, but so much stuff

01:12:06   at CES just isn't real. It's vaporware or it's LG announcing a robot that takes

01:12:14   your suitcases from your car to your hotel room that they're never gonna be

01:12:17   able to sell because unions are a thing. Like so much of it is just not anything,

01:12:22   right? Like I've been watching The Verge does these like things where they cut up

01:12:26   a keynote into ten minutes so you can just see all the important stuff. I've

01:12:29   I've watched all of them.

01:12:30   I watched like three of them over breakfast.

01:12:32   And so much of it is just like nothing.

01:12:37   And we can talk about the things that are real,

01:12:39   but that's my problem with CES.

01:12:42   The stuff that's real, it's gonna happen, it's great,

01:12:44   but so much of it isn't, and that's where I struggle.

01:12:47   So the stuff we're gonna talk about I think is exciting,

01:12:49   but I think you have to temper that excitement with,

01:12:52   you have to filter it all through the idea

01:12:55   of some of this stuff is just concept,

01:12:57   or they're just talking about innovation,

01:12:59   because that's the word they have to use at CES,

01:13:01   not because it's real products

01:13:03   that make a difference in people's lives.

01:13:05   - I feel like there's two sides to this conference,

01:13:07   and this is why maybe you're totally right

01:13:11   from this point of view that there's the CES

01:13:14   where you get these new accessories, these new devices,

01:13:16   stuff that is actually gonna ship,

01:13:18   that is actually getting a pre-order going live this week,

01:13:22   or a ship dating two months.

01:13:25   So that's the real stuff that's been announced,

01:13:27   - Or it's from a reputable big name company, right?

01:13:32   It's like they're gonna ship this stuff

01:13:34   because it's gonna look silly if they don't.

01:13:36   Whether you think it's good or not, right?

01:13:38   Like they're gonna ship it.

01:13:40   - But to an extent, you could maybe even make the argument

01:13:43   that even LG, for example,

01:13:45   is showing off like a foldable OLED TV.

01:13:48   And I mean, that seems to be a working prototype.

01:13:51   - Well, okay, so TVs are like a whole big thing of CES

01:13:56   and companies like LG, they come to CES

01:14:00   with technology that they've just developed

01:14:02   that will ship in five years time, right?

01:14:05   But they come to CES with their breakthroughs

01:14:07   because a lot of it as well is what they're trying to do

01:14:10   is get companies to buy.

01:14:11   So for example, Sharp a few years ago

01:14:15   came with a bunch of equipment

01:14:16   which ended up showing up in stuff

01:14:18   like the Nintendo Switch, right?

01:14:21   Like, you know, they're like multiple years

01:14:25   into the future you'll see it because sometimes these companies are just trying to get other

01:14:28   companies to buy their panels and stuff like that.

01:14:31   Like TVs are a thing which have always been big at CES and this is one of the reasons

01:14:34   because all the big manufacturers bring their breakthroughs.

01:14:37   I mean and I will say though that that LG thing is wild.

01:14:42   Like it is a screen which rolls out of a box.

01:14:47   It's so weird.

01:14:49   But like I think I would kind of like that right like in 10 years time.

01:14:54   Did you see the modular Samsung TV that you basically make it bigger by attaching panels

01:15:01   to the monitor?

01:15:02   No.

01:15:03   See, this one's freaking incredible, though.

01:15:04   No.

01:15:05   To Steven's point...

01:15:06   It's 146 inches!

01:15:08   Yes, they call it the wall.

01:15:10   They call it the wall.

01:15:11   Of course they do.

01:15:12   So to Steven's point, to Steven's point, we also get these crazy announcements, whether

01:15:17   from big companies or some other companies that nobody knows.

01:15:21   And you get the suitcase that is supposed to follow you but keeps on falling to the

01:15:25   ground and you get the dancing robot, you get the robot stripper and I'm not kidding

01:15:30   here there was a robot stripper at an event last night it seemed.

01:15:33   I saw the news on Twitter.

01:15:34   Just awful.

01:15:35   So what is wrong with these people?

01:15:37   And you get these crazy wild inappropriate ideas that are never gonna happen.

01:15:43   So I thought we should quickly mention the stuff that we are going to see available on

01:15:52   the market, that we're probably going to buy some of these devices, or just general trends

01:15:57   that I think are interesting.

01:15:58   And the first one I believe that everybody's talking about this is the new accessories,

01:16:05   devices from TVs to headphones to speakers, even cars maybe, with either the Amazon Echo

01:16:14   Assistant or the Google Assistant built in. So native integrations with the

01:16:20   assistants by Amazon and Google. We've seen this in the new 4K TVs by LG. We've seen this in

01:16:28   wireless earbuds, which are also a trend. You know, everybody's making AirPods like earbuds now.

01:16:33   And I believe it's because Qualcomm has announced a new chip that makes it better for manufacturers to make these kind of accessories.

01:16:43   We've seen the Google Assistant in JBL's new line of speakers and earbuds.

01:16:49   We've seen light switches with displays and we've seen kitchen TVs with the Amazon Echo Assistant and the Google Assistant built in.

01:16:59   So we're seeing these two assistant APIs becoming available in a wide range of products.

01:17:08   And I wonder, so my question here.

01:17:11   So obviously this is interesting from a nerd point of view because it's, you know, cool

01:17:15   new technology and voice controls in a bunch of different appliances.

01:17:19   I think it's very cool. But is this a problem for Apple?

01:17:22   Is this a problem that these two are becoming

01:17:26   the de facto standards in the third-party assistant market?

01:17:31   And do we believe that Apple is making a mistake

01:17:33   by not opening up Siri in a similar way?

01:17:36   - So I was gonna, one of my picks

01:17:38   that I was thinking of making, this isn't an official pick,

01:17:42   but one of my picks was gonna be

01:17:44   that we don't see the HomePod until Q2.

01:17:46   I don't know why, I just feel like, where is it?

01:17:51   like where is it? Nobody knows and no one's saying anything and it doesn't exist yet

01:17:56   and it's just late. But I think what is happening is Google and Amazon are like okay

01:18:04   then we will spam the market. We will own it. We will put our technology into everything

01:18:13   because it benefits them ultimately for what they're trying to do. Apple is trying to

01:18:17   to sell their devices, Google and Amazon are selling their ecosystem. But their ecosystem

01:18:27   isn't a hardware ecosystem, it is the thing above it all. Amazon just wants you to buy

01:18:33   more stuff and Google just wants your data. So they don't care if JBL makes a speaker

01:18:40   that has Google Assistant in. Or they don't care if iDevices, which have built a wonderfully

01:18:45   bonkers thing, which is a light switch which has the Amazon Echo built into it. Not that

01:18:51   it can turn it on and off, but you can literally talk to the light switch. I think that that

01:18:56   is wild and amazing. You look like a crazy person talking to a light switch. I like the

01:19:02   idea of likeā€¦ Talking to the wall. Everybody had trouble writing this headline because

01:19:10   when you read it, you just think, "Oh, they just made a light switch that I can turn on

01:19:13   and off. No, no, you can talk to the light switch.

01:19:18   Clearly something happened with Google and Amazon, especially for this CES where they've

01:19:22   just gone to these device makers and they're like, "Do what you want."

01:19:27   I think that Amazon have done something, I don't know if they're enforcing this, but

01:19:32   the blue ring of light seems to be on all of their products that they're endorsing,

01:19:37   like that have the Echo stuff built into it. So I expect that that's like a brand thing

01:19:41   for them. But then Google, they have like released a whole new part of Home and Assistant,

01:19:48   where now there are Lenovo, JBL, LG and Sony are making Google Assistant devices with screens

01:19:55   on them. And they have built this whole new interface, which is built upon, I think it's

01:20:01   called Android Things, which is this like wearable platform. And it's just Google services

01:20:07   right now. It includes YouTube, LOL, Amazon Show, right? Like Echo Show. They've been

01:20:14   having some real problems and now Google's like "Oh, just use YouTube on this screen device."

01:20:18   But that's interesting to me that they are pushing into the screen thing too and have a thing which

01:20:26   is all ready to go. Yeah and Google is clearly catching up with Amazon here because they must

01:20:31   feel behind and they've been kind of aggressive both in terms of the brand presence at CES. I

01:20:37   I saw the photos of just Google logos and hey, Google

01:20:41   signage and billboards and, you know, just everywhere,

01:20:45   at least judging from the photos of taken by people there.

01:20:48   And I saw that Google also reorganized the sort of the interface

01:20:53   and the catalog for the Google Assistant.

01:20:56   It's now officially called Actions, the thing that you install.

01:20:59   So Amazon has skills.

01:21:01   The Google Assistant now has Actions and I don't know how many million Actions

01:21:06   They say they are available, but a lot basically.

01:21:09   And I sort of I'm fascinated by these two companies going against each other and Google

01:21:17   sort of feeling the need to catch up quickly, as opposed to Apple taking their time with

01:21:23   a single speaker that doesn't basically have any third party integration natively from a

01:21:31   native perspective.

01:21:33   And I guess the core discussion here is, do we believe that this stuff is all a fad?

01:21:41   That it's basically nobody's gonna buy these devices in numbers that really matter ultimately?

01:21:49   Do we believe that this is a fake trend that will go away and nobody cares?

01:21:54   And I wonder at what point does this argument sort of not make sense anymore?

01:22:01   Because once you get the assistant in your headphones, in your speakers, in your car, in your TV, does it matter at the point?

01:22:09   Is that relevant or is it only relevant if Apple does it?

01:22:14   Which I think can be a little, you know, somehow short sighted to say, well, unless Apple enters this market, then none of this stuff matters.

01:22:23   Because I mean, we're talking brands like Sony, JBL, LG, Samsung, Lenovo.

01:22:29   So these are actual brands that, you know, it's not like I'm running a Kickstarter for,

01:22:35   I don't know, like a remote with Alexa built in.

01:22:40   It's like, you know, these are big companies.

01:22:42   And so I think it's something worth paying attention to.

01:22:45   And I've seen on Twitter folks say, well, everything's got to change with the HomePod.

01:22:50   Is it though?

01:22:51   I mean, I'm excited.

01:22:52   Because it's not even this market, right?

01:22:53   Like Apple are not even really going after this.

01:22:57   just making a really good Apple music speaker that does some other stuff.

01:23:01   Yeah they're going after Sonos much more than Google Assistant and the

01:23:05   Amazon Echo Lady. I do think that that's that thought process Federico that if

01:23:11   Apple's not involved it's not important. That is one that people in our circles

01:23:15   fall prey to and that's why I wanted to say what I said about how I feel about

01:23:20   CES because I don't believe that if Apple's not in it it doesn't matter

01:23:23   because I think that's a foolish way to view consumer technology, but you know

01:23:29   you got actually ship stuff too. I do think the big story though from CS is

01:23:35   all this assistant stuff like Google and Amazon are in a war like just they are

01:23:40   going after each other and the YouTube stuff and all that stuff is you know

01:23:45   different fronts of the of the war but it's really getting to a point where you

01:23:50   You can have one of these assistants, like you said, everywhere.

01:23:54   And that's something that Apple people have always said, "Well, Siri's with you in your

01:23:58   pocket and the Amazon assistant is stuck on your kitchen counter."

01:24:03   That is not true anymore.

01:24:06   That's not a fair critique anymore because these things are becoming more and more ever

01:24:13   present.

01:24:14   I mean, just the other day I was watching something on TV and there's a commercial for

01:24:19   or some car and in the car commercial, like on television,

01:24:23   is oh, it comes with the Amazon voice assistant

01:24:26   built into the car.

01:24:27   Like this stuff is becoming mainstream

01:24:30   and there's always stuff at CES that's kind of out there,

01:24:32   right, that maybe the Amazon voice in a light switch

01:24:37   is a dumb idea and the market will show that.

01:24:40   But this stuff is everywhere now

01:24:42   and this market is progressing in a way that Apple,

01:24:48   Apple clearly is not approaching it straight head on,

01:24:50   they're approaching it from an angle.

01:24:52   And I think there's room for Apple to be successful here,

01:24:55   but Google and Amazon aren't waiting around

01:24:58   to see if that comes true or not.

01:25:00   - Yeah, it's like this smart speaker

01:25:02   and assistive technology, it's like a whole new avenue

01:25:04   for CES, especially this year.

01:25:06   But it's given another thing for there to actually be

01:25:09   for these device makers to make stuff and show it off.

01:25:12   'Cause like CES in the last couple of years

01:25:14   has gotten a bit dry,

01:25:16   because that hasn't really been a thing.

01:25:18   but this is like a thing, right?

01:25:19   Where like all of these companies are able to be like,

01:25:21   here is our smart assistant product

01:25:23   and we're working with Google to make these headphones.

01:25:25   Like it's like a whole thing that they can talk about.

01:25:28   And I think that like, you know, I spoke about this with VR

01:25:32   and I think that the core idea is the same,

01:25:36   that every technology company is terrified

01:25:39   that they're gonna miss the next smartphone.

01:25:43   So any big technology trend or any trend

01:25:46   that starts to occur, all of these companies,

01:25:49   they rush at it, right, to make sure

01:25:51   that they're gonna be able to have a seat at the table.

01:25:53   Nobody wants to be Facebook in 2008, right,

01:25:57   where they're like completely miss mobile.

01:25:58   Nobody wants to be them, right?

01:26:00   Like this informs Mark Zuckerberg's

01:26:04   entire acquisition strategy over the last few years, right?

01:26:07   And he said it, like because he said it,

01:26:09   he doesn't wanna miss out on how he missed out

01:26:11   on the smartphone.

01:26:12   So anytime that there is a big technology trend,

01:26:15   these companies rush at it.

01:26:16   So that is what Google's doing, that is what Amazon's doing.

01:26:19   They want to make sure that if this becomes a thing,

01:26:22   they are the player.

01:26:24   And that's why there's like a billion products.

01:26:26   And it's interesting and it is keen

01:26:29   as somebody heavily in the Apple ecosystem

01:26:32   to see what or if they're ever going to do anything

01:26:34   or if this ends up just being an enthusiast thing

01:26:38   and nothing more.

01:26:39   We're not, I think the jury is still very much out

01:26:42   on that one.

01:26:43   But there was another trend which is a long-lived CES trend, but was here in 2018 as well, Federico.

01:26:51   Yeah, combining multiple devices, multiple gadgets into one.

01:26:57   I think "convergence" is called "convergence", yes. This is the right word, Myke.

01:27:01   Convergence is the "C" in CES. It's the Convergence Electronics System.

01:27:06   Let me go through this list because it's kind of amazing.

01:27:10   a USB-C dock that is also a Qi charger.

01:27:15   So not only can you plug in your cables,

01:27:17   you can also charge your iPhone on top of the cables.

01:27:20   This is actually quite genius, a HomeKit smoke alarm

01:27:24   that is also an AirPlay 2 speaker.

01:27:26   So you can stick it to the ceiling

01:27:29   and not only does it save your life,

01:27:31   you also play some sweet music as you're escaping.

01:27:34   - And have straight up one of the best pun product names

01:27:38   I have ever heard.

01:27:38   - Yes.

01:27:39   I want to once again the pitch of this product is it is a smoke alarm with a speaker in it.

01:27:46   It is called the safe and sound. Oh my gosh someone needs to get a raise. That is incredible.

01:27:54   Somebody like did a lap of The Office when they came up with that name. It's amazing.

01:27:59   The safe and sound.

01:28:00   Bob from marketing really deserves the raise. It is amazing. Hold on because we're not done

01:28:08   a mesh router that is also an Alexa speaker.

01:28:11   - This is the most ridiculous one.

01:28:13   That's the most ridiculous one.

01:28:15   - You can talk to the router,

01:28:17   you can ask questions to the--

01:28:19   - Okay, here's my problem with this one.

01:28:22   Most of the time your router,

01:28:24   it's in the center of your house

01:28:25   or if you have a distributed system,

01:28:27   they're kind of all over the place.

01:28:28   But they're never where I want my voices to be.

01:28:33   Like I don't have a router in my kitchen.

01:28:35   - Looks like a boombox.

01:28:36   So you can put it anywhere you want a boombox to be.

01:28:39   That's what my kitchen needs. A boombox device.

01:28:41   Yeah! You carry it around on your shoulder and that's how you get good wi-fi throughout the house.

01:28:47   Oh yeah that's...

01:28:48   Can I... can I interest you guys in a mouse pad? In a mouse pad that is also a wireless charger.

01:28:55   So here's my problem with this one. On the face of it, it's like, okay, if my mouse is wireless,

01:29:01   then great. But then your mouse mat needs to be plugged into something.

01:29:06   So it's kind of pointless, right?

01:29:08   What if the pad also charges the mouse and the iPhone on top of the pad?

01:29:17   So it's an air power but for your mouse and phone, you know?

01:29:22   It could be CS 2019.

01:29:24   It's not the worst thing.

01:29:26   Honest, super quick.

01:29:28   In a move that I expected but is very interesting to me,

01:29:33   I mean, I could say I don't really care for it, but she very, very, very frequently does

01:29:42   not plug her phone in.

01:29:43   She just puts it down and falls asleep.

01:29:45   Now all she needs to do is put it in a specific place.

01:29:47   So yeah, she loves it.

01:29:49   So I'm pleased I have the charging pad for her.

01:29:51   But yes, maybe I need to get her a mouse mat instead.

01:29:55   So final pick, what about another mic doesn't drive, but maybe this could be the hot gadget

01:30:03   that convinces you to buy a car and get a driving license.

01:30:06   What about an Amazon Echo speaker for the car?

01:30:10   Hold on.

01:30:12   That is also a dash cam.

01:30:13   So you can be like the Russians.

01:30:15   You can be like the Russians constantly recording

01:30:17   when they're on the road and make sure that, you know,

01:30:19   this activates making great YouTube videos

01:30:23   and this activates the recording when it detects a crash

01:30:27   and it saves a local file for you.

01:30:30   And then you can ask the Echo to,

01:30:32   to, "Hey, play my accident."

01:30:34   And you can see the, you can relieve those terrifying moments.

01:30:39   - Do you remember the Meteor one?

01:30:43   The Russian dashcam with the Meteor hit the ground.

01:30:46   - Oh yes, yes, exactly.

01:30:48   - It was incredible.

01:30:50   You neglected to mention one feature of this,

01:30:55   that on the back of this device,

01:30:57   this is the part that's facing you, the driver,

01:30:59   they can throw up driving directions.

01:31:02   So you can look at a little half-inch circle in the corner of your windshield.

01:31:07   An Amazon Echo speaker with a dash cam and a GPS in it.

01:31:10   Yeah, this is the Garmin Speak Plus.

01:31:13   I think we mentioned the Garmin Speak a while back when we talked about the Amazon Echo APIs.

01:31:18   This is a new version, it's called the Plus because it's got a new feature, which is the dash cam.

01:31:24   But it's the same idea.

01:31:25   This does actually seem like a pretty compelling product.

01:31:28   Like, this is, of all the weird combos that we've seen so far, I gotta say, I gotta say,

01:31:36   the safe and sound and the Garmin Speak Plus are not so terrible.

01:31:41   You know, I've thought about getting one of those Nest Protects, but I'm really nervous

01:31:47   about trying out the new fan called Smoke Alarm.

01:31:51   I feel like of all of the things, like, to try out, the Smoke Alarm isn't one of them,

01:31:57   You want that to be like tried and true.

01:32:00   I want the most dumb smoke alarm possible.

01:32:05   As anyone ever said I'm really excited about my new smoke alarm.

01:32:09   Yeah.

01:32:10   I mean I guess people when they got the Nest Protect were pretty excited.

01:32:14   Yeah.

01:32:16   I have not bought the Nest Protect.

01:32:17   I'm like you Myke.

01:32:18   What if you never use it?

01:32:19   Like do you go like man I cannot wait for my kitchen to catch on fire so I can make

01:32:23   sure that I'm getting my money out of this purchase.

01:32:27   Do you not test your smoke alarms Federico?

01:32:28   How do you do the actual test in the fire? Like, the fire doesn't come up and press the

01:32:33   test button. That's not how that works.

01:32:36   We don't have smoke alarms in Italy. It's not like a regulation that we need to install

01:32:40   them.

01:32:41   How are you alive?

01:32:42   What? What?

01:32:43   Yeah. Yeah, we don't do smoke alarms in Italy.

01:32:46   This is like the seatbelt thing. Where like, just because there's no regulation, that you

01:32:54   still get one. But why would I want a smoke alarm? Like what I would I work the

01:33:01   seatbelt because I'm driving and it saves my life when I'm cooking I'm not

01:33:05   gonna no my kitchen catch fire. No no no no no no no no. Any good smoke alarm is smart enough to not go off

01:33:12   when you're cooking. I have a smoke alarm in my kitchen and it doesn't go off but

01:33:17   it works. I mean I got two dogs. I got two dogs. They act as my smoke alarm if they smell

01:33:24   something fun. I've seen you. Now if the smoke gets them first, I've seen your cable

01:33:29   management behind your TV. You should have a smoke alarm. It's a matter of time for

01:33:32   that. I am. I can only apologize for what your mentions are gonna look like. Like you

01:33:39   walked into this. We did not bring you into this. You gave this information willingly.

01:33:44   I don't understand why like it's I understand the smoke alarms are common in the UK and in the US.

01:33:50   It is something that nearly like nobody I know has a smoke alarm. So it's not like I'm just the crazy

01:33:57   person here without a smoke alarm. I was never like when I was a kid my parents didn't have a

01:34:04   smoke alarm. My grandma didn't have a smoke alarm. I get that 100% like I have like in Romania,

01:34:11   nobody wears seatbelts, right?

01:34:13   And it's like, everyone thinks that it's disrespectful

01:34:17   when I put the seatbelt on in the taxi,

01:34:19   but I'm like, I don't care.

01:34:21   And like, when I'm there, Adina wears a seatbelt.

01:34:24   I like keep looking at her until she puts it on.

01:34:26   When she's in London, she has no problem with it.

01:34:28   When she's in Romania, she never wears it.

01:34:30   I totally get how like these things are just like,

01:34:34   they become a part of just the way that people live.

01:34:38   But this is just one that like if you live in other parts of Europe or you live in the US,

01:34:45   not having a smoke alarm, like people think that you have lost your mind.

01:34:51   Like this is akin to the seatbelt thing, right?

01:34:53   Like is seatbelts a thing in Italy or no? Do people wear seatbelts?

01:34:57   Yeah, well it is a thing people, especially younger people, they all tend to wear seatbelts.

01:35:03   But older people do that thing where they like clip it in and put it behind them or whatever,

01:35:07   I mentioned before that in Naples they sell t-shirts with a fake seatbelt print on them.

01:35:14   Which is just like, I don't even understand the type of person that will get a specific t-shirt to drive in.

01:35:21   My dad, I'm not sure if he does this still, but my dad had his doctor prescribing like a piece of paper basically

01:35:32   where the document says that this person has a shoulder injury and is allowed to not wear

01:35:39   seatbelts and whenever the police stopped him for routine checks on the road, he would

01:35:45   whip up this document saying that he was allowed not to wear a seatbelt.

01:35:49   It's like the medical marijuana of seatbelts, right?

01:35:52   Yeah.

01:35:53   You go to the specific doctor and you give him $25 and then you get the piece of paper

01:35:58   - Oh my god, I get my debt arrested for this revelation.

01:36:02   (laughing)

01:36:05   - No one knows his name, we're good, we're good.

01:36:07   And as we know, bribery can go a long way Federico,

01:36:11   you just give some money to the police officer

01:36:13   and you're all good.

01:36:13   - Yeah, this is--

01:36:14   - No, don't do this, this isn't--

01:36:15   - Take your seatbelt to the bakery, you'll be fine.

01:36:18   - Federico, I would love it if you could buy

01:36:20   like a super low profile smoke alarm

01:36:22   so like none of your friends know,

01:36:23   but just like put it in the hallway, right?

01:36:26   Like, you know, just so we know that you're good,

01:36:28   You know? I just want to know you could.

01:36:30   Do they sound the siren if there's a problem?

01:36:32   Well of course they do.

01:36:33   Yes. That's the point.

01:36:35   Otherwise what are they doing?

01:36:36   Just like, "Ah, we recorded there was a fire.

01:36:40   Good luck."

01:36:41   It's an alarm, Federico.

01:36:43   The clue's in the name.

01:36:44   If you want to find our show notes for this week,

01:36:49   go to relay.fm/connected/175.

01:36:53   Don't look for us on Twitter this time.

01:36:55   We're all good.

01:36:57   like this time, Federico knows now, you don't have to tell him. I'm probably saying this

01:37:03   too late, you know, we're too late at this point.

01:37:05   This is not going to be as bad as you think, Myke. This is totally going to be fine. People

01:37:10   understand, people understand I'm Italian, we do things differently, people know.

01:37:15   Alright, well, I feel like you're just goading people now into this, but you know, go to

01:37:20   MacStories.net, FireToldPixels.net, subscribe to the FireToldPixels YouTube channel, Steve

01:37:25   and when have you got a new video going up?

01:37:27   Monday.

01:37:29   Oh wow that was quicker than I expected, I look forward to it.

01:37:32   Go check out more shows at relay FM.

01:37:35   I hear this from people, they're like "oh I don't listen"

01:37:37   We have, trust me, if you're listening to this show,

01:37:40   we have at least one more show that you would enjoy.

01:37:42   Like I would put money on that.

01:37:45   I will bet you a dollar.

01:37:46   This is, I'm walking myself into a situation.

01:37:50   I bet you one dollar, there is at least one more show that you could listen to

01:37:53   if you only listen to this one.

01:37:54   I bet even if you listen to two, you could probably find another, but I'm not going to

01:37:57   bet you on that one.

01:37:58   Thanks again to our sponsors this week, our friends over at MissionU, Squarespace, and

01:38:04   Linode.

01:38:05   We'll be back next time.

01:38:06   Until then, say goodbye, guys.

01:38:07   Adios.

01:38:08   Adios.

01:38:08   Adios.