Connected

00:00:00 ◼   ► [Music]

00:00:06 ◼   ► From Relay FM, this is Connected, episode 171. Today's show is brought to you very

00:00:12 ◼   ► kindly by our friends at Eero, Away and Hover. My name is Myke Hurley, I'm joined by Steven

00:00:17 ◼   ► Hackett. Hello Steven Hackett. Hello Michael Hurley. And welcome back for

00:00:20 ◼   ► recovery TT. Ciao ciao ciao. Hey guys, it's good to be back. I really missed you last week.

00:00:26 ◼   ► Oh, that was nice. I missed you too.

00:00:28 ◼   ► You guys each had some time off, and once again I had to be the responsible adult and be here every week.

00:00:34 ◼   ► But now we're all together.

00:00:35 ◼   ► Listen to this, like he never takes a week off.

00:00:36 ◼   ► This is not how it works, Dad. Come on.

00:00:38 ◼   ► He just thinks he can come in here and treat it like he's the one who only does all the work for this show.

00:00:42 ◼   ► Do you know what then? I tell you what, take it. Take it away, buddy. It's all on you now.

00:00:46 ◼   ► Well, I mean, follow-ups to the next part.

00:00:48 ◼   ► Yeah, take it away.

00:00:49 ◼   ► That's my part. So, we've been talking-

00:00:51 ◼   ► Don't help him Federico.

00:00:53 ◼   ► Wow. And I'm just going to monologue for the next 75 minutes.

00:00:55 ◼   ► for the next 75 minutes.

00:00:56 ◼   ► - Yeah, this is on you now.

00:00:57 ◼   ► This is yours.

00:00:59 ◼   ► - And this is the last episode of Connected.

00:01:00 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:01:02 ◼   ► 171's a nice round number.

00:01:04 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's good, it's good.

00:01:05 ◼   ► If you're ever gonna stop, 171, best place to stop.

00:01:08 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:01:09 ◼   ► Juan wrote in suggesting that smart assistants

00:01:12 ◼   ► have a quote, "Wit slider," like carrot weather.

00:01:16 ◼   ► And I think this is a good idea.

00:01:17 ◼   ► So we've talked about Siri.

00:01:18 ◼   ► I think all three of us are annoyed

00:01:20 ◼   ► when Siri gets something wrong

00:01:22 ◼   ► and then is sort of cutesy about it.

00:01:24 ◼   ► And Myke, you were speaking last week

00:01:25 ◼   ► that the Google Home is just very talkative.

00:01:28 ◼   ► It just wants to say stuff.

00:01:30 ◼   ► - It won't shut up.

00:01:31 ◼   ► - It just wants to have a bond with you.

00:01:33 ◼   ► And I think Amazon does a good job,

00:01:35 ◼   ► like hey, turn on the light and it says okay,

00:01:37 ◼   ► and the light comes on.

00:01:39 ◼   ► I like this idea that hey, I could go into Siri settings

00:01:42 ◼   ► and say you know what, I don't need any of your sass.

00:01:44 ◼   ► I just want you to do what you're told.

00:01:47 ◼   ► And then when the robot uprising comes,

00:01:49 ◼   ► Siri will destroy me.

00:01:50 ◼   ► - Would you like some real world examples of this?

00:01:53 ◼   ► would you like me to to get them to go on head to head and see how it sounds?

00:01:58 ◼   ► I could do it right now.

00:01:59 ◼   ► All right, let me grab the things.

00:02:01 ◼   ► Oh, God. Oh, boy.

00:02:02 ◼   ► OK, OK. What is that in here?

00:02:04 ◼   ► Sorry, everyone, for setting off your devices, but Alexa, turn on the office lamp.

00:02:08 ◼   ► OK. OK, so that's that, right?

00:02:11 ◼   ► That's that's what that one does.

00:02:12 ◼   ► And then we'll go for this. OK. All right.

00:02:14 ◼   ► Hey, Google, turn off the office lamp.

00:02:16 ◼   ► OK. Turning the office lamp off.

00:02:19 ◼   ► Why you got to do that?

00:02:20 ◼   ► Why you got to do that? Why you got to say so much?

00:02:22 ◼   ► there's an extra confirmation. It wants you to know it did its job. It wants to be congratulated,

00:02:31 ◼   ► Myke. I mean, can you imagine being like an AI in Google's server farms? Must be really

00:02:39 ◼   ► sad and lonely once you get out into the canister. You just want to talk to people.

00:02:43 ◼   ► I have noticed that the voice on the Google Home sounds significantly better, but that's

00:02:48 ◼   ► probably because I hear more of it. It's craving some human connection. It really is.

00:02:55 ◼   ► Smart speakers are feelings too Myke. There is something like that great

00:03:00 ◼   ► copywriting can go a long way for this stuff so we we use a company in the UK

00:03:07 ◼   ► in London called Ocado for shopping so like you know you do like online

00:03:12 ◼   ► grocery shopping they bring it to you they just they just created a new echo

00:03:15 ◼   ► skill where you can add things to your trolley just by voice which is fantastic

00:03:20 ◼   ► I've wanted this forever and the copywriting is so good like there are

00:03:24 ◼   ► lots of steps that you have to go through to like to it you ask it for

00:03:29 ◼   ► something it confirms if this is the thing that you meant and tells you it's

00:03:33 ◼   ► putting it in the cart but like when you say at the end it's like hey is there

00:03:36 ◼   ► anything else can help you with and you're like no and it's like okey-dokey

00:03:39 ◼   ► and it's like just little things like that where it's it's not being stupid

00:03:44 ◼   ► It's not being silly. It's not making a dumb joke

00:03:46 ◼   ► But it's friendly

00:03:49 ◼   ► And and I really noticed it cuz I was like that was a nice experience

00:03:52 ◼   ► Because it sounded kind of more like something a human would say as opposed to a robot and it changes like they're clearly there

00:04:00 ◼   ► The

00:04:03 ◼   ► Copywriting is clearly

00:04:05 ◼   ► Extensive because sometimes it's like okay. Otherwise, it's like okey-dokey like I like it. It's kind of just a little bit more playful

00:04:11 ◼   ► So yeah, good copywriting can go a long way.

00:04:13 ◼   ► It doesn't have to just be dumb jokes.

00:04:15 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think there's a balance there.

00:04:18 ◼   ► And I think maybe Google's too far to one side

00:04:21 ◼   ► and Siri definitely is as well.

00:04:23 ◼   ► And I think with Siri it's just frustrating

00:04:25 ◼   ► because it seems to be the cutest when it gets things wrong

00:04:30 ◼   ► or like, I don't know, something about that

00:04:32 ◼   ► is just really grating for whatever reason.

00:04:35 ◼   ► So Myke, you use Gboard on your iPhone

00:04:38 ◼   ► which is Google's third party keyboard.

00:04:41 ◼   ► I don't quite understand what this is,

00:04:43 ◼   ► so it is auto switching to dark mode?

00:04:46 ◼   ► What is this?

00:04:47 ◼   ► - So previously with Gboard, you could choose

00:04:50 ◼   ► between a light theme and a dark theme for your keyboard.

00:04:53 ◼   ► And it was basically a creamy white and black.

00:04:57 ◼   ► So you would choose, and then that was it.

00:05:00 ◼   ► So I used to use the black theme, like the dark theme,

00:05:04 ◼   ► but the problem was I would open an app like Messages

00:05:07 ◼   ► and I would have a white screen and a dark keyboard.

00:05:10 ◼   ► And since iOS may be 10 or nine,

00:05:13 ◼   ► Apple's keyboard is actually a bit more context aware

00:05:16 ◼   ► and the color changes.

00:05:17 ◼   ► So if you're using messages, it's white,

00:05:20 ◼   ► and if you pull down to use Spotlight, it goes dark,

00:05:23 ◼   ► it goes a kind of like a translucent dark color.

00:05:25 ◼   ► But Gboard, I was kind of stuck between one or the other.

00:05:29 ◼   ► They just put out an update yesterday,

00:05:31 ◼   ► and two things changed, which I find interesting.

00:05:34 ◼   ► Their default theme,

00:05:35 ◼   ► the white what was clearly a creamy white is now gray.

00:05:38 ◼   ► So it looks like the iOS keyboard and their dark theme continues to be dark.

00:05:43 ◼   ► But if you turn on the settings for automatic,

00:05:46 ◼   ► but actually I don't even think you need to turn on automatic setting.

00:05:48 ◼   ► It just does it on its own.

00:05:48 ◼   ► Now it detects when an application has a mostly dark theme or a light theme and

00:05:53 ◼   ► switches to keyboard to be more context aware. And I think it's fantastic.

00:05:59 ◼   ► It was one of my only remaining frustrations about Gboard was the fact that

00:06:04 ◼   ► like the keyboard didn't match up in ways that I wanted,

00:06:07 ◼   ► but now it does and I'm super happy about it.

00:06:09 ◼   ► And I will continue to endorse Gboard

00:06:13 ◼   ► as the way of the future.

00:06:14 ◼   ► Like I've convinced Casey List to try it

00:06:16 ◼   ► 'cause he's been complaining about AutoCorrect

00:06:18 ◼   ► and I never have problems with AutoCorrect because--

00:06:21 ◼   ► - And now Google will know his secrets.

00:06:22 ◼   ► - Exactly. - Secrets of the--

00:06:24 ◼   ► - This is why I didn't directly suggest

00:06:27 ◼   ► that Casey should try it.

00:06:28 ◼   ► I mentioned it on upgrade and now he's trying it.

00:06:30 ◼   ► And the reason is because I know he'll go all Casey

00:06:32 ◼   ► about it, right?

00:06:33 ◼   ► Like for example, Kyle is now posting in the chat room the fact that there was this other virtual keyboard

00:06:37 ◼   ► that leaked a bunch of client records and like as a way to kind of be like I'm assuming

00:06:42 ◼   ► Oh don't use a on the keyboard because they might link it. But the thing is right Google has this information

00:06:48 ◼   ► Regardless right that it could leak from anywhere. Like I don't care. I could just don't care. Mm-hmm

00:06:54 ◼   ► So I I asked around the bunch last night

00:06:57 ◼   ► I was playing with Gboard and I was impressed by this how I managed to switch themes

00:07:03 ◼   ► in a bunch of apps and there's a native, of course there's a native iOS API that

00:07:08 ◼   ► maybe a lot of developers don't know or simply don't take advantage of but

00:07:12 ◼   ► Google is doing nothing shady to detect whether you know you're using an app

00:07:18 ◼   ► with the light team or a dark team. It's just querying an iOS API that basically

00:07:23 ◼   ► returns whether the system keyboard would be, you know, the Apple

00:07:28 ◼   ► keyboard would be in the light version or the dark version that you get for

00:07:33 ◼   ► example when you swipe down. So Google is saying, okay, if the system keyboard in this

00:07:38 ◼   ► very instance would be in the dark version, then I'm going to be in the dark version as

00:07:43 ◼   ► well. So it's not like Google is monitoring the apps that you use. That's not what's going

00:07:48 ◼   ► on. It's a native iOS API that Apple made specifically, I guess, for third-party custom

00:07:53 ◼   ► keyboards. So all natively supported. Nothing secret or shady going on.

00:08:00 ◼   ► So again, I love Gboard.

00:08:03 ◼   ► The autocorrect is significantly better.

00:08:05 ◼   ► It has an emoji search bar.

00:08:07 ◼   ► You can search for GIFs from the keyboard and it even does some smart stuff where it

00:08:11 ◼   ► recognizes the names of places and it shows Google searches for them.

00:08:15 ◼   ► I think it's fantastic.

00:08:16 ◼   ► I don't care about the Google stuff because I just really don't believe that they're trying

00:08:22 ◼   ► to get me.

00:08:24 ◼   ► So I use it every day and have done for a long time and since the iPhone X it's gotten

00:08:29 ◼   ► even better because I never get that like weird Apple keyboard anymore like I

00:08:34 ◼   ► don't, you know, cause I deleted the, the standard Apple keyboard, right?

00:08:38 ◼   ► So I don't have it.

00:08:39 ◼   ► So if I would like access something when my phone is locked, like a notification,

00:08:44 ◼   ► I would get like an Apple keyboard without any quick type of any auto correct

00:08:49 ◼   ► as the way I would reply to messages. It was like this super just like barren

00:08:54 ◼   ► keyboard, like sometimes the keys would fall off. It was really upsetting. Um,

00:08:58 ◼   ► But now, since the iPhone X, because every time I'm looking at my phone it unlocks it,

00:09:01 ◼   ► I get my Gboard.

00:09:02 ◼   ► So it's great.

00:09:04 ◼   ► Do you know, Myke, if Gboard, like if we set up the system replacements on tech…

00:09:08 ◼   ► It works.

00:09:09 ◼   ► It works.

00:09:10 ◼   ► Yep, it keeps the system replacements.

00:09:11 ◼   ► And I don't know how, but I have better luck with them on my iPhone than my iPad.

00:09:17 ◼   ► I don't know what the difference is.

00:09:18 ◼   ► I don't know what Google's doing, but they work.

00:09:21 ◼   ► So like I set up a bunch of emoji mostly, but yeah, they work.

00:09:24 ◼   ► The system replacements work.

00:09:25 ◼   ► And even the Google's version of QuickType, the little bar at the top, it shows the emoji,

00:09:32 ◼   ► or it will show the text replacement for you as well.

00:09:35 ◼   ► So I have one to show the little nerd face, which is N-N-E.

00:09:39 ◼   ► When I type that, the emoji pops up and I press space and it just auto fills.

00:09:45 ◼   ► But it knows it's there.

00:09:46 ◼   ► So it's all very clever and it's just getting better and better all the time.

00:09:49 ◼   ► Very happy with it.

00:09:51 ◼   ► So there has been a lot of news about some software bugs at Apple.

00:09:56 ◼   ► We are not going to recap the news because this has all happened like a week ago.

00:10:01 ◼   ► So we're going to assume moving forward that you know about the High Sierra root bug and

00:10:06 ◼   ► the fix and the fix was broken.

00:10:08 ◼   ► More like Buy Sierra, am I right?

00:10:10 ◼   ► Buy Sierra.

00:10:11 ◼   ► Oh god, oh god.

00:10:12 ◼   ► That's good.

00:10:13 ◼   ► You know?

00:10:14 ◼   ► That's what everyone says now, they don't want a Sierra.

00:10:16 ◼   ► It's not, define everyone.

00:10:18 ◼   ► I feel like everyone is you.

00:10:20 ◼   ► Well, no, nobody wants it anymore because it's full of security holes, that's my understanding.

00:10:26 ◼   ► And bugs and problems and nobody puts any focus on it.

00:10:30 ◼   ► That's what I know.

00:10:32 ◼   ► Wow.

00:10:33 ◼   ► Also the December 2nd gate where local notifications would crash springboard endlessly on December

00:10:38 ◼   ► 2nd for some users.

00:10:39 ◼   ► We need a better name than that, I think.

00:10:40 ◼   ► That's the December 2nd gate, I think we can do better than that.

00:10:44 ◼   ► I think it's a perfect name.

00:10:45 ◼   ► I thought about this for quite a bit of time and I really can't come up with anything.

00:10:50 ◼   ► Do we need to brainstorm it or are you going to come back to that?

00:10:53 ◼   ► What about Dategate?

00:10:55 ◼   ► Dategate?

00:10:56 ◼   ► Damn, that's good.

00:10:59 ◼   ► Dategate!

00:11:00 ◼   ► Dategate!

00:11:01 ◼   ► Dategate!

00:11:02 ◼   ► I don't know, it's all just like really unfortunate.

00:11:04 ◼   ► That's the way I look at it.

00:11:05 ◼   ► It's just, this is sad for everybody.

00:11:07 ◼   ► Yeah, either one of these stories would be a rough week for Apple, but having both of

00:11:14 ◼   ► them just like five days apart, it's not great, not a great look.

00:11:19 ◼   ► Let me ask you, right, like if this sort of stuff is happening to you two personally,

00:11:23 ◼   ► would you prefer these two things to happen at the same time or separately? Because like,

00:11:28 ◼   ► you know, if they're happening at the same time, like it's really bad, but you're kind

00:11:33 ◼   ► of already in the mode of trying to fix stuff, so like another thing is just another thing,

00:11:39 ◼   ► but like if these happen two months apart, it's like, "Oh man, I thought we fixed this

00:11:43 ◼   ► stuff." You know? Maybe it's better that it happens at the same time.

00:11:45 ◼   ► I don't know. It's like you wrote the band-aid off at once or slowly. Interesting question.

00:11:52 ◼   ► So I'm curious how the two of you feel about this. I think my sort of thought walking away

00:11:59 ◼   ► from last week is, okay, clearly something Apple needs to look at some processes and

00:12:07 ◼   ► maybe look at some teams and some managers and try to work some things out. But I keep

00:12:12 ◼   ► thinking about like, what what's the long term? What's the long term effect of these things? And

00:12:20 ◼   ► my guess is that there's probably not much of one, especially the iOS bug, because they got 11.2 out

00:12:29 ◼   ► so fast, it was already ready, this pushed out a couple days early. I think out in the real world,

00:12:35 ◼   ► the number of people who ran into this, their phone rebooting was actually probably really

00:12:38 ◼   ► small. Like I was anticipating Saturday being full of calls and text messages from my friends

00:12:44 ◼   ► and family saying my phone is rebooting, please help me. I didn't hear a single thing. And usually,

00:12:49 ◼   ► you know, I'm the person people come to who know me like, hey, what about this? What about this?

00:12:54 ◼   ► And so I didn't hear a single thing, which I was really surprised. I think the high Sierra bug is

00:13:00 ◼   ► the more serious of the two by far. And I think that I think that especially like,

00:13:06 ◼   ► like pro it people, they're going to remember this for a while and they're going to,

00:13:10 ◼   ► this is going to be something that is hard to shake if you are a Mac admin or you, you know,

00:13:17 ◼   ► have to defend the Mac in your workplace or something like that. This is a pretty big

00:13:21 ◼   ► piece of ammunition against the Mac and enterprise. But but I think for like, average users,

00:13:28 ◼   ► like I don't know anyone who's like, next time they're going to buy a computer, the high Sierra

00:13:33 ◼   ► a login bug is going to make them think about picking up a surface instead of a MacBook

00:13:37 ◼   ► Pro.

00:13:38 ◼   ► And so long term, you know, I think Apple, I think their reputation, like, is definitely

00:13:43 ◼   ► damaged.

00:13:44 ◼   ► There's definitely a trust issue, especially if you're like a power Mac user.

00:13:48 ◼   ► But I think at the end of the day that it's not like, there's not something that we're

00:13:52 ◼   ► like, I don't think any of us are calling for like, Craig Federighi's head on a platter,

00:13:56 ◼   ► or for like, massive restructuring.

00:13:58 ◼   ► We're like, yeah, maybe some people in the QA department need to be looked at, you know,

00:14:02 ◼   ► We need to figure out what happened, but I don't think it's the end of the world. It's bad

00:14:07 ◼   ► It's a it's they're bad, but it's not I don't think it's crippling. What do y'all think so? I feel like it's really

00:14:14 ◼   ► It's really just a just an unfortunate

00:14:17 ◼   ► Coincidence that it happened both the date stuff and the high Sierra stuff on the same really within a couple of days of each other

00:14:26 ◼   ► Obviously, I also think the I Sierra bug is there, you know, even from a PR perspective

00:14:31 ◼   ► was the worst one for Apple. I'm not sure, as an iOS user, I'm not sure how I feel about the

00:14:40 ◼   ► High Sierra stuff. I've been thinking about this, like how do I explain this maybe to my friends?

00:14:44 ◼   ► Because one of the common themes of all the people that I've convinced to switch from Windows to

00:14:52 ◼   ► the Mac is you get no, you don't get malware, you don't have to worry about, you know, like viruses

00:14:59 ◼   ► or stuff affecting your computer and obviously this is normal where this is no, you know,

00:15:05 ◼   ► I have to install an antivirus on my PC but it's still, it was at least a huge security problem so

00:15:14 ◼   ► how do I reconcile the fact that I've pushed all my friends to get a Mac for security with this

00:15:21 ◼   ► kind of major security problem and I think, I don't have a clear answer, I just think that

00:15:28 ◼   ► it was good to see a quick response from Apple

00:15:32 ◼   ► and a quick fix and documentation within basically just a few hours.

00:15:37 ◼   ► But it's a black eye.

00:15:41 ◼   ► That's the way that I see it. It's a black eye.

00:15:43 ◼   ► I'm not sure. There really isn't a way to recover

00:15:48 ◼   ► because this stuff just happens and once it happens, it's out there.

00:15:53 ◼   ► There's no way to make good on it. You release a software update but it happened.

00:15:57 ◼   ► And the fact that it happened even just once, it's something that we'll remember.

00:16:03 ◼   ► And I just think it's just too bad that it happened because we were not used to this kind of security problem

00:16:13 ◼   ► affecting, at least to my memory, affecting Apple computers.

00:16:16 ◼   ► And I imagine if this stuff happened on an iPhone, like if you were able to log into an iPhone by just typing

00:16:23 ◼   ► zero zero zero on the passcode UI that would have been incredibly bad. Of course

00:16:30 ◼   ► this was maybe more contained but I fear for the day that a similar problem could

00:16:37 ◼   ► occur on an iPhone and on the lock screen of an iPhone so I don't know.

00:16:43 ◼   ► My general feeling of this is that all of this is not good like all of this is

00:16:50 ◼   ► not good for the overall perception of Apple software quality.

00:16:55 ◼   ► I think that people are, talking about it's not great with Jason, I think that people

00:17:00 ◼   ► are hesitant to update their devices anyway. That has become a trend

00:17:05 ◼   ► over the last couple of years. And every time something bad, potentially like this

00:17:10 ◼   ► happens, I think that you end up in a scenario where more people were just

00:17:15 ◼   ► concerned for updating their phones and/or just generally trusting Apple's software

00:17:22 ◼   ► quality. I don't think that it's a good look because these bugs were... the only way to

00:17:29 ◼   ► fix them was to tell people. Like a big stink had to be made. A lot of noise had to be made

00:17:36 ◼   ► in the effort to try and make sure that people fixed these things and/or didn't run into

00:17:40 ◼   ► them and/or didn't do the bad thing that might have to happen for it to occur to you. So

00:17:45 ◼   ► I don't think that it's good overall.

00:17:48 ◼   ► I don't think that this specific thing is going to make a difference, but I think it

00:17:51 ◼   ► is adding to the overall perception of poor quality software, which and/or I'm scared

00:18:00 ◼   ► of updating my device.

00:18:02 ◼   ► I think it's adding to all of that.

00:18:04 ◼   ► And I think that in the long run that is really bad for Apple because they don't want to be

00:18:09 ◼   ► seen as that company.

00:18:11 ◼   ► There's something that I wanted to say that I really didn't like on Twitter a few days

00:18:16 ◼   ► ago when this stuff was going down.

00:18:19 ◼   ► The response is from a few people.

00:18:23 ◼   ► Everybody was sort of trying to explain what to do with this security bug, and I saw some

00:18:27 ◼   ► tweets saying, "But hey, sure, on Windows and on Android you get all these other security

00:18:34 ◼   ► problems and everyone now is making a big fuss about this High Sierra bug."

00:18:39 ◼   ► I was thinking about this response that I really don't understand what something happens

00:18:42 ◼   ► to your favorite company, you point to something bad from some other company.

00:18:48 ◼   ► And I don't think it's the best way to discuss these issues.

00:18:53 ◼   ► Like imagine if your kid, your parent and your kid does something bad.

00:18:58 ◼   ► You don't say, "Well, but those other kids did something worse."

00:19:01 ◼   ► You need to care about your own kid.

00:19:03 ◼   ► And in this sense, you know, when we're talking about Apple, because we follow Apple, of course

00:19:07 ◼   ► who were not, Apple is not our kid, but in the sense that we care about this

00:19:12 ◼   ► company and I think it's not productive or not honest to point out to

00:19:20 ◼   ► other companies and their own security problems when we should be discussing

00:19:24 ◼   ► this one because we hold Apple to such a high reputation that of course this in

00:19:30 ◼   ► any possible measure this is a this is a this has damaged their apples

00:19:36 ◼   ► reputation. So to say well but it's worse on Windows and it's worse on Android, sure

00:19:40 ◼   ► maybe but that's really beside the point.

00:19:43 ◼   ► Yeah I agree, I completely agree. So there you go, it's taken care of, I don't think

00:19:50 ◼   ► that it's good for them overall but it isn't the worst thing that's ever happened to them,

00:19:55 ◼   ► I don't think.

00:20:00 ◼   ► So let's hope there's nothing, no more big bugs to talk about next week.

00:20:04 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:20:05 ◼   ► - Just give us a week. - Don't say it.

00:20:06 ◼   ► - Give us a week off. - Don't say it,

00:20:07 ◼   ► 'cause you don't wanna jinx it.

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00:21:15 ◼   ► because they're sitting right there why don't they do something else?

00:21:18 ◼   ► Okay what about a built in LED night light with an ambient light sensor as well.

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00:22:44 ◼   ► So Federico, a couple of days ago you sent me and Steven an iMessage message and included

00:22:49 ◼   ► in that iMessage message was a picture and the picture I think at the top just said "Grazzi"

00:22:55 ◼   ► like that and then it was like an order for an Apple Watch. You bought an Apple Watch

00:23:01 ◼   ► for a reason that doesn't completely make sense.

00:23:04 ◼   ► Well I bought the Series 3 Apple Watch without cellular because we don't have the cellular

00:23:12 ◼   ► version in Italy and basically there's a couple of reasons behind this. One

00:23:19 ◼   ► of them is I wanted to have the latest Apple hardware from 2017. I wanted to

00:23:24 ◼   ► have the full line because I really like what Apple has released this year from

00:23:28 ◼   ► the iPhone to the iPad and even the Apple TV 4k something that I want to get

00:23:32 ◼   ► and so I wanted to have the complete line but really I wanted to use my

00:23:38 ◼   ► Apple Watch more. I've been hearing about the Series 3 and the

00:23:43 ◼   ► speed improvements and the battery life improvements and I was kind of jealous

00:23:46 ◼   ► of, you know, I was listening to John, I was listening to you and I thought even

00:23:50 ◼   ► if I cannot get the cellular one I feel like I could use the the speed

00:23:54 ◼   ► improvements and the battery life stuff because I like to use my Apple Watch for

00:23:58 ◼   ► sleep tracking and I feel like, you know, if the battery lasts longer it becomes

00:24:03 ◼   ► easier for me to find a moment during the day when I can recharge my Apple

00:24:06 ◼   ► and really there's a couple of apps that I really want to use on my watch like Shazam for example,

00:24:11 ◼   ► and they used to be really slow on the Series 2 watch and so the combination of I don't want to

00:24:19 ◼   ► wait for Italian carriers because I you know they could maybe make up their mind next year in June

00:24:24 ◼   ► when Apple announces the Series 4 and the fact that I really wanted to try these faster and

00:24:31 ◼   ► and better series 3, I just went for it.

00:24:35 ◼   ► And I, luckily I have already sold my series 2 watch.

00:24:39 ◼   ► I actually, I've actually been pretty disciplined about selling my old stuff.

00:24:45 ◼   ► Selling old stuff is something that I really don't like to do because I don't have the

00:24:48 ◼   ► patience or I don't have the time for it.

00:24:50 ◼   ► But I've been able to sell my iPhone 7 Plus, I sold my watch, I'm probably gonna sell my

00:24:55 ◼   ► PS4 so it's I don't feel bad about buying new stuff as much as like last year for example.

00:25:01 ◼   ► So I have the series 3 on my wrist right now and I there's nothing much to say really I have no

00:25:11 ◼   ► cellular features but I really like it it's much much faster I'm using apps like Shazam and Things

00:25:20 ◼   ► actually more because they launch in just a couple of seconds and I love the fact that Siri talks back,

00:25:27 ◼   ► that it's not limited to tapping you when it's done and being useless like it was on the series to watch.

00:25:34 ◼   ► It actually talks back and it's really useful because I can talk to it,

00:25:38 ◼   ► go back to do something else like washing the dishes and then Siri talks back to me through the speakers.

00:25:44 ◼   ► So it's really nice and it's basically, I'm basically repeating

00:25:48 ◼   ► everything you probably heard or already discussed about the Sirius 3 watch,

00:25:52 ◼   ► but without the cellular benefits, because I cannot get those features now.

00:25:57 ◼   ► Yeah, that's really the story. I wanted a better watch,

00:26:01 ◼   ► and I got the better watch. That's all I did.

00:26:06 ◼   ► Doesn't make sense, Myke. Is it an accent?

00:26:07 ◼   ► Yeah, no, that makes sense. It makes sense.

00:26:10 ◼   ► Do you use the audio of Siri then? Like, on your watch? I don't do that.

00:26:14 ◼   ► Oh yeah, oh yeah. I love, I've always liked the idea of Siri on the wrist. Like having a,

00:26:19 ◼   ► like a Siri attached to me all the time. I love that idea. I love how Siri works with HomeKit stuff

00:26:29 ◼   ► especially. And also something I've been doing lately, mostly on the iPhone, I don't do that

00:26:33 ◼   ► on the watch as much, but I'm asking for movie information. Like when I'm watching a movie or

00:26:41 ◼   ► TV show and I'm asking Siri about the name of an actor.

00:26:44 ◼   ► It's like if you want to know about Michael Fassbender, right?

00:26:47 ◼   ► Like you just ask.

00:26:48 ◼   ► Yeah, for no actual actors.

00:26:50 ◼   ► I feel like I feel like who is this random person on my television

00:26:53 ◼   ► that I can't understand.

00:26:55 ◼   ► Yeah, it's always it's like Federico again.

00:26:59 ◼   ► It's Michael Fassbender.

00:27:00 ◼   ► Like how many more times?

00:27:01 ◼   ► That's just what Siri says to you.

00:27:04 ◼   ► Keep going through this.

00:27:05 ◼   ► Also, also something that I do a lot is conversion from USD to Euros,

00:27:11 ◼   ► because of course. But yeah, I use Siri quite a bit these days. I think we've talked about this before.

00:27:18 ◼   ► I'm not a... I don't do like crazy workflows with Siri because it's like just some simple questions

00:27:26 ◼   ► every once in a while but quite often during the day and it works really well on the Series 3 with

00:27:32 ◼   ► with audio feedback. I really really like it. I feel like I wasn't using Siri before because

00:27:38 ◼   ► I truly didn't like the tapping back when it was done and it was also slow so right now it's faster

00:27:45 ◼   ► and it talks it's actually it feels like the true Siri on the wrist which is really really nice.

00:27:51 ◼   ► Steven do you use it like that?

00:27:54 ◼   ► On occasion uh if I'm out for a walk or something or my hand or you know hands are full or whatever

00:28:05 ◼   ► I'll do it but it's not as much as I thought it would be. When I do use it, it's effective,

00:28:13 ◼   ► it's fast and it works better than Siri ever has on the watch but it hasn't fundamentally

00:28:18 ◼   ► changed my usage of Siri I don't think.

00:28:21 ◼   ► So all of this whole topic was just as a way to trap Federico into talking about things.

00:28:28 ◼   ► You mentioned that you use things on your watch and you're back now so you've gotten

00:28:33 ◼   ► away from hiding from us for a week. What is going on? Like I need the story now, especially

00:28:40 ◼   ► because on App Stories you spoke about the application itself, right? But neglected to

00:28:46 ◼   ► really talk about what the situation is. I feel like at this point you've run out of

00:28:52 ◼   ► options. Why are you using things?

00:28:55 ◼   ► But I could just hang up on Skype right now.

00:28:58 ◼   ► You could, you could, and we could just leave it to Steven. But we need it from you, we need the content.

00:29:05 ◼   ► So there was a question that I kept repeating in my brain a few weeks ago.

00:29:13 ◼   ► Why am I doing this?

00:29:15 ◼   ► Pretty much. I was asking myself, do I really need all these automations that I've put together,

00:29:26 ◼   ► that I've built for my task manager. Do I really need all these workflows?

00:29:32 ◼   ► Because when you make these automations, when you make all these

00:29:35 ◼   ► workflows, you are walking a fine line between workflows being really useful

00:29:42 ◼   ► but also just adding complexity in your life because it's fun to make them.

00:29:46 ◼   ► And I'm totally aware of the fact that, and I always say as much, that all the

00:29:51 ◼   ► workflow, most of the workflows that I publish that I read about are proof of

00:29:55 ◼   ► concepts and things that I just have fun to play with and to explain. But for

00:30:00 ◼   ► Todoist I built a lot of workflows for MaxSories and myself to automate as

00:30:07 ◼   ► many parts as possible of my daily schedule and routine. And so I was asking

00:30:14 ◼   ► myself this question, is it really necessary for me to have all this

00:30:17 ◼   ► automation? And at the same time this is basically the reason why it feels so

00:30:22 ◼   ► strange it's because it's a really personal story. I've been feeling

00:30:28 ◼   ► since September, since publishing my IOS 11 review, I've been feeling stressed

00:30:35 ◼   ► more than usual at this time of the year and every time I was looking I was

00:30:40 ◼   ► opening my task manager and there was like a dozen, like 20-25 tasks due today

00:30:48 ◼   ► and mostly overdue from several days before and changing their color to red

00:30:55 ◼   ► and you know having priorities set high by my automations and I was and just

00:31:03 ◼   ► opening the Todoist became like like a source of anxiety and stress and feeling

00:31:09 ◼   ► bad and guilt because it's been it's been a strain it's been a different year

00:31:14 ◼   ► for me. Usually I publish my iOS review in September and then I take

00:31:20 ◼   ► a brief break or mini vacation like a week or ten days and then I'm back

00:31:26 ◼   ► to normal work and this year instead I published my iOS review and I jumped

00:31:31 ◼   ► straight into preparing a presentation for the Release Notes conference in

00:31:35 ◼   ► Chicago and then I came back and I was totally behind the work and I was

00:31:39 ◼   ► totally behind on admin stuff for the site and so I took care of that and

00:31:44 ◼   ► then I also realized oh my god the iPhone X is coming out so I better work

00:31:47 ◼   ► on a story for the iPhone X and of course I spent a month writing about the

00:31:52 ◼   ► iPhone X and so I'm you know it's been a strange year, it's been a

00:31:57 ◼   ► different year and you know with the dogs and with a bunch of problems I've

00:32:02 ◼   ► been feeling a lot of stress and on top of that when opening the task manager I

00:32:07 ◼   ► I was like, okay, now maybe I'm gonna feel more organized when I look at my inbox.

00:32:11 ◼   ► But no, I was feeling more stressed, I was feeling more anxiety.

00:32:14 ◼   ► And really the problem was, and sort of the tipping point was that the more I was feeling stressed

00:32:22 ◼   ► and the more my automations kept working in the background and creating tasks for me.

00:32:28 ◼   ► And I was like, no man, I just need a break here.

00:32:30 ◼   ► I just, I cannot do this anymore.

00:32:32 ◼   ► like I when I feel like that I'm catching up on my to-do list there's

00:32:36 ◼   ► like five workflows on Zapier creating ten more tasks for me.

00:32:41 ◼   ► All right let me ask you a question at this at this juncture. I understand what you're saying

00:32:47 ◼   ► but aren't they things that need to be done? Isn't that why it's happening?

00:32:52 ◼   ► Like all you're doing is hiding from the tasks.

00:32:55 ◼   ► I am. And I was.

00:32:57 ◼   ► Okay, cool. Just as long as we all know that we get it.

00:33:00 ◼   ► Yes, yes, yes, I was.

00:33:02 ◼   ► And so I did two, I tried to make two changes.

00:33:07 ◼   ► One is I figured that the problem was,

00:33:13 ◼   ► I tried to fix the problem at the source of why,

00:33:17 ◼   ► and I'm probably gonna sound like gray to you,

00:33:19 ◼   ► but why do I need to do these things?

00:33:22 ◼   ► Is it absolutely necessary for me to do these things?

00:33:25 ◼   ► And so I made a few changes to be able to delegate

00:33:28 ◼   ► those tasks to someone else. But at the same time I realized it's maybe time for me to try another task manager

00:33:41 ◼   ► because I've been using Todoist for a year and I feel like I said at the time when I was switching from

00:33:49 ◼   ► Todoist maybe that I wanted to experiment with Todoist and I feel like I did my experiment and I did my, you know,

00:33:56 ◼   ► I think I have a pretty good understanding of automation and Todoist and all the APIs.

00:34:01 ◼   ► So maybe it's time for me to try something else.

00:34:04 ◼   ► Maybe I need to see if organizing my life in a different way could be better for me.

00:34:11 ◼   ► And so the combination of I'm delegating these things to someone else

00:34:17 ◼   ► and the automations that I absolutely need I can make them work with Slack so

00:34:27 ◼   ► all the notification based tasks that I was creating in Todoist I can now

00:34:34 ◼   ► create reminders in Slack but all the other ones I've discovered that I

00:34:42 ◼   ► can replicate with iOS 11 drag-and-drop for example. Let me

00:34:49 ◼   ► offer you a practical example here. So I had a series of tasks every day that

00:34:54 ◼   ► allowed me to automate how I post about new episodes of connected and remastered

00:35:01 ◼   ► on canvas on Mac stories and that used to be a workflow on Zapier that set a

00:35:08 ◼   ► a task for me on Todoist with a high priority and a due date and a reminder.

00:35:13 ◼   ► But now...

00:35:14 ◼   ► And I was doing all kinds of crazy things with Python and scraping the Relay website, sorry Steven,

00:35:23 ◼   ► to get the HTML and convert it to Markdown.

00:35:26 ◼   ► But I realized with iOS 11 I can literally just open the Relay website in Safari.

00:35:32 ◼   ► I can select the connected webpage.

00:35:34 ◼   ► It's a very nice website too. You're given a official treat every time.

00:35:38 ◼   ► and I can just select the text of the new episode and drag it into Ulysses

00:35:44 ◼   ► and when I drop it, it's already converted to Markdown. It's all that I

00:35:49 ◼   ► need to publish to Mac Stories. So I realized that with iOS 11 and drag and

00:35:53 ◼   ► drop, some of these things I didn't need automation for anymore. And so when you

00:35:59 ◼   ► consider these three changes, I wanted to try something new. I wanted to delegate

00:36:04 ◼   ► more and I wanted to take advantage of iOS 11 more it seemed to me that I was

00:36:13 ◼   ► I had all the conditions to try and switch my task manager for a while and

00:36:18 ◼   ► with things there's a part of me that wanted to try things because

00:36:26 ◼   ► since version 3 came out in May I was really attracted by the design and

00:36:32 ◼   ► and the way that it was different from OmniFocus or Todoist or these other professional task managers.

00:36:40 ◼   ► But also I was under the impression just by talking to people who use things

00:36:46 ◼   ► that it was good for that kind of person that was suffering from stress and anxiety

00:36:57 ◼   ► in terms of managing tasks and managing responsibilities on a daily basis.

00:37:02 ◼   ► And really it all comes down to a single feature of things that I think it's helping me cope better with

00:37:10 ◼   ► remaining calm when I realize I'm behind on the things that I need to do.

00:37:16 ◼   ► And that is that things is heavily based on this "Today" feature.

00:37:21 ◼   ► you can basically mark to-dos as due today. You don't need to attach a due time, you

00:37:29 ◼   ► don't need to attach a notification, and you have this today screen which is

00:37:34 ◼   ► organized in two separate sections. One is today, which would be the

00:37:39 ◼   ► morning and the afternoon, and the other is this evening. It literally just says

00:37:42 ◼   ► this evening, and there's a moon icon, and there's a horizontal separator between

00:37:46 ◼   ► the two. And it's a very simple, very visual way to sort of organize what I

00:37:51 ◼   ► need to do during the day and what I can do at night, maybe after dinner, you know,

00:37:55 ◼   ► the lighter stuff that it's not as urgent. But I feel like the reason that I

00:38:04 ◼   ► like things, and again I talked about all the features on App Stories, but the

00:38:09 ◼   ► bigger theme is it's the kind of tax manager that I need at this point in my

00:38:16 ◼   ► life because the design and the way that today's screen works, it makes me more relaxed when

00:38:26 ◼   ► I look at my task manager, when I look at my to-do list, it doesn't make me feel bad.

00:38:33 ◼   ► There's no different coloring for overdue items.

00:38:37 ◼   ► There's no priorities.

00:38:41 ◼   ► I don't feel guilt when I look at it.

00:38:44 ◼   ► And if you don't complete something today, it just automatically goes on to tomorrow

00:38:49 ◼   ► and it doesn't get a special color.

00:38:50 ◼   ► It just stays there.

00:38:54 ◼   ► And there's two conclusions that I feel that I want to make after.

00:38:58 ◼   ► I've been trying things for like two weeks at this point.

00:39:00 ◼   ► So it's, again, this is not like a full commitment.

00:39:03 ◼   ► I just, I feel like we're talking about it because you guys saw that I was using things

00:39:08 ◼   ► and you're like, why are you using things?

00:39:10 ◼   ► No, you confessed it.

00:39:11 ◼   ► You just randomly confessed it.

00:39:12 ◼   ► You brought this upon yourself.

00:39:14 ◼   ► Sure, alright. But there's two conclusions that I want to make.

00:39:20 ◼   ► One is, and I think I've talked about this before, I am increasingly drawn to apps with beautiful designs on iOS.

00:39:32 ◼   ► Apps that feel native to iOS. It's the reason why I cannot stop paying for Apple Music even though I also pay for Spotify.

00:39:42 ◼   ► As time goes on, I have less and less patience for stuff that doesn't feel native to my iPhone or my iPad.

00:39:55 ◼   ► And things are absolutely beautiful just to look at and to use. It's elegant, it's simple.

00:40:00 ◼   ► It feels like the task manager that Apple would make if they didn't make reminders, which is unfortunate.

00:40:07 ◼   ► But also, the bigger conclusion is I'm starting to accept the fact that maybe I'm just not the person who can make a task manager recommendation forever

00:40:23 ◼   ► and say this is the absolute best task manager that I recommend for the next five years.

00:40:29 ◼   ► And then maybe I'm the kind of person who, just like I change hairstyles or I change the music that I listen to on a monthly basis

00:40:38 ◼   ► or, you know, sometimes I play for a month with my Nintendo Switch and sometimes I play with my PlayStation 4

00:40:44 ◼   ► Sometimes I maybe I just, the task manager is also a reflection of my life and how I'm dealing with responsibilities, how I'm coping with work

00:40:55 ◼   ► So maybe I'm not the best guy to make a tax manager recommendation because it

00:41:01 ◼   ► highly depends on what my life is like at this very moment and I don't know if

00:41:08 ◼   ► this makes any sense but I've been thinking about why I switched from

00:41:17 ◼   ► Todoist in the first place and what are the conclusions that I'm reaching and

00:41:20 ◼   ► and hopefully somebody else that listens to the show will find some meaning in all of this rambling explanation.

00:41:29 ◼   ► I have a question for you. I'm just trying to help you here.

00:41:35 ◼   ► Like, just to identify some potential hazard points of your new system.

00:41:40 ◼   ► This is literally therapy going on.

00:41:42 ◼   ► Yeah, I'm doing my account for you.

00:41:44 ◼   ► I talk about and think about this stuff enough now in my life that it is of great interest to me.

00:41:49 ◼   ► So it seems like what you're doing is the same amount of stuff, but you're just shuffling it

00:41:57 ◼   ► around. So you mentioned about, and like this is something I've seen you do, you had this automation

00:42:03 ◼   ► that would remind you to post about a podcast episode on Mac stories and it would just,

00:42:09 ◼   ► you used it as the example here, right? It would pop up in Todoist and you said you've moved it to

00:42:14 ◼   ► to Slack. So I'm assuming that you've set up a channel in Slack where these posts go

00:42:20 ◼   ► to and then when you see them, you post about them on the site, right?

00:42:25 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:42:26 ◼   ► That is the same action, just in another place? You're still doing the same thing and every

00:42:30 ◼   ► time you open Slack, there's going to be a little unread notification badge there.

00:42:35 ◼   ► So –

00:42:36 ◼   ► No.

00:42:37 ◼   ► No? Well, the channel's –

00:42:38 ◼   ► Well, it's not going to be on the icon, it's – yeah, on the channel.

00:42:41 ◼   ► So every time you're talking to someone,

00:42:43 ◼   ► you swap over to that bot, there's that thing there,

00:42:45 ◼   ► and you're like, oh, I gotta do that thing later on.

00:42:47 ◼   ► They gotta do that thing, that thing's there,

00:42:48 ◼   ► I know what that means, I gotta do that thing.

00:42:50 ◼   ► My concern is, this is gonna turn you away

00:42:52 ◼   ► from Slack eventually.

00:42:54 ◼   ► I think that what this is proving is that

00:42:57 ◼   ► you might have to think about that action itself

00:43:01 ◼   ► as opposed to the way that it presents itself to you,

00:43:04 ◼   ► because all you've kind of done is shuffled

00:43:07 ◼   ► the deck chairs around a little bit

00:43:10 ◼   ► as to where it's gonna be living,

00:43:12 ◼   ► because it's still an action you need to perform.

00:43:15 ◼   ► I understand completely why you're doing this.

00:43:18 ◼   ► I feel like I cannot argue with your reasons,

00:43:23 ◼   ► because they are personal to you,

00:43:26 ◼   ► especially with where they're coming from,

00:43:29 ◼   ► which is like a feeling of overwhelm,

00:43:31 ◼   ► but I would just say that it might be worth

00:43:36 ◼   ► paying a little bit more attention

00:43:38 ◼   ► to the things that you're doing and working out

00:43:41 ◼   ► if you can get rid of more of them

00:43:42 ◼   ► as opposed to just like,

00:43:43 ◼   ► oh, I'll remove the automation from Todoist,

00:43:46 ◼   ► I'll set up a new automation in Slack instead.

00:43:48 ◼   ► - Yeah, but that's really like the smaller part

00:43:53 ◼   ► of this process.

00:43:55 ◼   ► Like getting rid of the automations,

00:43:59 ◼   ► it's just one of the many reasons

00:44:03 ◼   ► and it's not even the most important one.

00:44:05 ◼   ► I think the two most important reasons are the fact that things by design, it makes me...

00:44:17 ◼   ► I like the way that it looks and it's calm.

00:44:21 ◼   ► It doesn't look like...

00:44:24 ◼   ► I'm not sure what the best way to convey this would be but it doesn't look like work.

00:44:31 ◼   ► My concern is though that it's because it's new.

00:44:35 ◼   ► have just assigned that feeling of this looks like work to Todoist in your mind

00:44:40 ◼   ► so like when you open Todoist you're like oh I'm in work now and it's just

00:44:45 ◼   ► because you have this new fancy shiny application it doesn't feel like work.

00:44:50 ◼   ► It could be, it could be but again I want to understand like if I'm not

00:45:01 ◼   ► This is a question that I'm asking you, I guess, but there's some apps and services

00:45:07 ◼   ► that I cannot stop using, right? Like, I cannot stop using WordPress because

00:45:13 ◼   ► otherwise my stories would disappear. I cannot stop using Slack, otherwise I

00:45:17 ◼   ► wouldn't be able to talk to my teammates. But if I can find an alternative, why is

00:45:25 ◼   ► is it so bad to switch task managers? Because we switch email clients, we

00:45:31 ◼   ► play around with multiple tax editors, but whenever I'm testing another

00:45:37 ◼   ► task manager a lot of folks are really almost shocked by the idea. And there's

00:45:46 ◼   ► this... I'm not sure why, but it feels like switching a task manager is almost

00:45:54 ◼   ► like an absurd and like a crazy thing to do. It's a religious war. It's what it's almost like.

00:46:01 ◼   ► It's like people super believe in the system that they're using and especially, I mean as well,

00:46:07 ◼   ► okay, a lot of part of it for you Federico is people use these systems because of your

00:46:12 ◼   ► recommendation. So like one of the reasons I was so upset with you moving to things is because

00:46:18 ◼   ► Because I moved to Todoist because you convinced me. So now what?

00:46:22 ◼   ► But it doesn't make Todoist any worse for you.

00:46:25 ◼   ► I don't know that until you tell me why. Right? Which is why I've been hounding you for three

00:46:30 ◼   ► weeks. I need to know why you've switched. Because if you're telling me now that things

00:46:36 ◼   ► is better because of X, Y and Z and they're the same reasons that you told me to go to

00:46:41 ◼   ► Todoist in the first place, I need to know that because I might be missing out.

00:46:46 ◼   ► Ah, I get it.

00:46:48 ◼   ► You know, I gotta say, the fact that whenever I try something else, for a very personal reason,

00:46:58 ◼   ► that my audience, let's say, starts asking why, like you, it doesn't help the fact that...

00:47:12 ◼   ► like I'm trying things because I'm going through some personal problems but the

00:47:17 ◼   ► people at large they expect some kind of productivity explanation whereas it's

00:47:24 ◼   ► just no to do is better than things when it comes to automation when it comes to

00:47:28 ◼   ► collaboration when it comes to you know cross-platform it's totally better but

00:47:33 ◼   ► mine is a like mine is a personal problem and well and it's it's you know

00:47:40 ◼   ► it's hard to reconcile the fact that I'm switching task managers for personal

00:47:45 ◼   ► reasons with the people now expect a story on the site. So now we're going

00:47:50 ◼   ► into a very different world here where it's... okay so we're down a very deep

00:47:55 ◼   ► rabbit hole. About the idea of living in public. Yeah. So you decide, you made

00:48:03 ◼   ► decisions in your life which have led you to where you are and part of that is

00:48:07 ◼   ► is that you share things with the internet.

00:48:10 ◼   ► You share them with the world.

00:48:11 ◼   ► As a way of being like, I am an authority,

00:48:15 ◼   ► and I have good opinions and taste,

00:48:17 ◼   ► and I believe that you should listen to the things

00:48:20 ◼   ► that I have to say about applications, right?

00:48:22 ◼   ► Like that's Federico Vittucci, that's what people look at.

00:48:25 ◼   ► You are a person who people trust

00:48:27 ◼   ► to give them recommendations.

00:48:29 ◼   ► So every time you share an application that you're using,

00:48:32 ◼   ► people will assume it is the best one,

00:48:34 ◼   ► unless you tell them otherwise.

00:48:36 ◼   ► So just saying or posting a screenshot

00:48:39 ◼   ► which has things in it, people will be like,

00:48:42 ◼   ► oh, what's this all about?

00:48:45 ◼   ► This isn't the application that Federico

00:48:47 ◼   ► recommended that I use.

00:48:49 ◼   ► I wanna know why Federico's using it for a reason.

00:48:52 ◼   ► I wanna know that reason.

00:48:53 ◼   ► So there is a, if the problem that you're having

00:48:57 ◼   ► is you talk about a thing and then people

00:48:59 ◼   ► wanna know about it, you just don't talk about it.

00:49:02 ◼   ► You're just gonna keep it to yourself

00:49:04 ◼   ► until you're ready to tell everybody else.

00:49:06 ◼   ► 'Cause people wanna know.

00:49:08 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's not really a problem.

00:49:09 ◼   ► I wouldn't say it's a problem, it's just,

00:49:12 ◼   ► I don't know how to explain it when it's something so,

00:49:18 ◼   ► like I'm not gonna go on my stories and say,

00:49:20 ◼   ► "Well, I was feeling stressed,

00:49:21 ◼   ► so I switched my task manager."

00:49:24 ◼   ► It's not a good enough reason for an article.

00:49:26 ◼   ► - Connect is a whole different situation.

00:49:28 ◼   ► We can talk about it here.

00:49:30 ◼   ► It's just me and you.

00:49:31 ◼   ► - Exactly, it's on the podcast,

00:49:32 ◼   ► I can talk about it with you guys.

00:49:34 ◼   ► But it's not, I mean, I love the fact that people

00:49:38 ◼   ► trust what I like and use what I like and, you know,

00:49:41 ◼   ► try the workflows that I make and stuff.

00:49:43 ◼   ► That's awesome.

00:49:44 ◼   ► But it's just, this time I don't feel like

00:49:47 ◼   ► I have a good enough reason or the story behind it

00:49:51 ◼   ► is just, it wouldn't be applicable to someone else.

00:49:54 ◼   ► That's the problem.

00:49:55 ◼   ► Not the fact that people listen

00:49:57 ◼   ► and want to try the same stuff,

00:49:59 ◼   ► but this time I'm not even, like my explanation,

00:50:04 ◼   ► it had a bunch of different reasons.

00:50:07 ◼   ► I'm not even sure myself why.

00:50:09 ◼   ► And I don't know, I'll probably be back to Todoist.

00:50:12 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:50:13 ◼   ► I still think Todoist is honestly the best one.

00:50:15 ◼   ► See, this is my point.

00:50:17 ◼   ► I want the freedom to try something else.

00:50:20 ◼   ► I would say that's maybe the conclusion here.

00:50:24 ◼   ► I wanted to be able to excuse myself

00:50:27 ◼   ► and try something else for a while?

00:50:29 ◼   ► Well, again, it's completely fine, but I think that like, if this is a thing that

00:50:37 ◼   ► frustrates you, then you just need to build a system of caveats when you talk

00:50:41 ◼   ► about things. Right.

00:50:42 ◼   ► So like, just say I'm trying it out.

00:50:45 ◼   ► I'll let you know what I think about it and then you can move on.

00:50:48 ◼   ► I think most people then just wait.

00:50:50 ◼   ► They'll wait for the twenty five thousand word teacher review.

00:50:52 ◼   ► That's never going to come. But they think it's going to come.

00:50:54 ◼   ► You know, it's just like, OK, like, I'll wait.

00:50:56 ◼   ► he'll write a big review and then eventually you're just like nah it wasn't worth it and

00:51:00 ◼   ► everyone goes okay thanks for letting me stick with Todoist. Nobody wants to be left behind.

00:51:07 ◼   ► So there you go. That's my two cents.

00:51:10 ◼   ► But is this the kind of story that you were expecting?

00:51:16 ◼   ► I assumed there was something going on. For you to move to an application that doesn't

00:51:22 ◼   ► have workflows in it makes me assume that something big has changed.

00:51:27 ◼   ► Obviously I didn't think it was this thing exactly, but I knew that there was some kind

00:51:31 ◼   ► of seismic shift going on because I know the way that you work, right?

00:51:39 ◼   ► And again, you haven't moved away from the workflows.

00:51:44 ◼   ► The workflows have just been changed, right?

00:51:48 ◼   ► I couldn't work out how you were getting yourself into a situation where you were trusting yourself to just do it

00:51:55 ◼   ► Right because the workflows are the safety net so that was why I've been so

00:51:59 ◼   ► Incessant in wanting to understand what the heck was going on

00:52:02 ◼   ► Because I could see something had bigger changed and I was wondering what it was. I hoped it was some some like

00:52:09 ◼   ► Revelation of like i've cracked it i'm able to get things done at a faster rate than ever before so I could learn from you

00:52:16 ◼   ► But instead it's just a feeling that I think all of us

00:52:20 ◼   ► can have from time to time.

00:52:24 ◼   ► I'm having it right now because I leave the country

00:52:25 ◼   ► again in two days.

00:52:27 ◼   ► So I'm feeling that overwhelmedness feeling.

00:52:31 ◼   ► And a lot of the time, what you need to do

00:52:33 ◼   ► and what you are doing is just take a step back,

00:52:36 ◼   ► look at what your system is doing for you,

00:52:38 ◼   ► see where you can optimize it, and then move on from there.

00:52:42 ◼   ► And you're in that world right now,

00:52:43 ◼   ► but unfortunately it's compounded with the fact

00:52:45 ◼   ► that people just want to know why you're using a new application, Federico.

00:52:48 ◼   ► They just want to know.

00:52:50 ◼   ► Yeah, and it's like, my problem was, I'm not working on a review.

00:52:57 ◼   ► I'm not even sure. Like, I'm supposed to be working now on my must-have roundup of the year,

00:53:05 ◼   ► and I've got to make up my mind, am I switching to things for real, or am I going back to Todoist?

00:53:12 ◼   ► because honestly I miss the collaboration stuff.

00:53:15 ◼   ► I miss the integrations with my email client

00:53:20 ◼   ► and all the way that I can talk to the echo

00:53:23 ◼   ► and create stuff in Todoist.

00:53:27 ◼   ► I miss all of those features.

00:53:29 ◼   ► And now I'm supposed to make a decision,

00:53:32 ◼   ► and I'm not sure, like, and as you say,

00:53:35 ◼   ► am I just running away from the problem?

00:53:37 ◼   ► The problem is not the task manager.

00:53:39 ◼   ► The problem is maybe the things

00:53:40 ◼   ► that I'm putting into the task manager.

00:53:42 ◼   ► Am I just remixing and switching things while avoiding the real problem that lies underneath?

00:53:50 ◼   ► Probably.

00:53:52 ◼   ► So now that I'm done with my iPhone X story and that I'm not traveling anymore,

00:53:58 ◼   ► I'm just here and that big project is also done, now maybe I have more time to think for myself

00:54:05 ◼   ► and maybe I'll figure something out, I'll figure whether the problem is in the Task Manager or in the task itself.

00:54:14 ◼   ► So, we'll see.

00:54:16 ◼   ► Yeah, and I think, I mean, I get what Myke, what you're saying, that

00:54:21 ◼   ► if this, if you have something bigger going on, then changing the Task Manager isn't going to solve it.

00:54:27 ◼   ► And I agree with that. But I think too, as someone who's done this countless times,

00:54:33 ◼   ► there is benefit to

00:54:37 ◼   ► moving into a new system because it allows you to see every

00:54:41 ◼   ► single list and project and to do item

00:54:45 ◼   ► It's like a really big review right? Yeah, when I moved into

00:54:49 ◼   ► RTM I realised that I had some stuff in here

00:54:53 ◼   ► that just didn't need to be in here. Some things that you know,

00:54:57 ◼   ► this could go into notes or this really should be on my calendar and it

00:55:01 ◼   ► did clear some things up. And so there is benefit to that. But anytime you sort of blow

00:55:08 ◼   ► up your system and put it back together, I anytime I do it always try to ask like, what,

00:55:13 ◼   ► what am I actually trying to do? Like, what am I actually anxious about here? And is it

00:55:18 ◼   ► really about, you know, sorting lists or repeating tasks or whatever it is? Or is there something

00:55:23 ◼   ► like more fundamental going on? So I'm glad that you're thinking about that. Because it

00:55:26 ◼   ► can be frustrating to go through all this and then still feel crappy at the end of the day.

00:55:31 ◼   ► Should we take a break? Federico, I hope that you return to full power soon.

00:55:40 ◼   ► Mmm. Are you gonna accept me, whether I used to do this or not? Are we still gonna be friends?

00:55:49 ◼   ► You know that my love for you endures all task managers. How's Remember the Milk?

00:55:56 ◼   ► look.

00:55:57 ◼   ► It's good.

00:55:58 ◼   ► Good.

00:55:59 ◼   ► You happy?

00:56:00 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:56:01 ◼   ► Uh, you know, what you talked about last week, that the lack of, um, sub lists is a little

00:56:07 ◼   ► annoying.

00:56:08 ◼   ► I have like a super janky work around for that right now, but we'll see what happens.

00:56:12 ◼   ► All right.

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00:58:39 ◼   ► their support of this show and Relay FM. So as we were talking today, iOS 11.2 came out

00:58:46 ◼   ► over the weekend and sometime yesterday Apple turned on Apple Pay Cash. It is US only so

00:58:52 ◼   ► I apologize to my co-host. But if you haven't come across this yet and you're in the US,

00:58:58 ◼   ► when you open messages on your phone or iPad you're going to get an ad now for Apple Pay

00:59:03 ◼   ► Cash. People emailed me about that. It's very much similar to the "Hey sign up for Apple

00:59:08 ◼   ► music but they gotta tell people I guess. Apple Pay Cash is not a standalone app

00:59:14 ◼   ► it is just an iMessage application so you can use it in iMessage. It's

00:59:19 ◼   ► part of QuickType which is very clever so if someone messages me and says hey

00:59:24 ◼   ► you owe me 10 bucks then QuickType brings up Apple Pay as a option that it

00:59:31 ◼   ► knows that I may want and I can very quickly send somebody that 10 bucks or I

00:59:36 ◼   ► and do whatever I need to do. It is. We spoke about this when it first came out, Myke, but

00:59:43 ◼   ► basically this works as its own like virtual debit card. So you can leave money on your Apple Pay card

00:59:50 ◼   ► for use later in the iMessage app or anywhere Apple Pay is accepted. So right now I've got

00:59:55 ◼   ► like six bucks on my Apple Pay card because I've been sitting the same two or $3 at different

01:00:00 ◼   ► people as they've been on the beta and yesterday as they want to try it out. And then if you want

01:00:05 ◼   ► to withdraw it to your real bank account you can do that as well. That's in the

01:00:10 ◼   ► Apple Pay settings. This is a little limited. You can only have one account

01:00:14 ◼   ► set up for withdrawal at a time. So for instance somebody like me who I have my

01:00:19 ◼   ► personal finances and then I have my company's finances and then I have

01:00:22 ◼   ► Relay's finances. I really need to decide what I'm going to use Apple Pay Cash for

01:00:27 ◼   ► because it's a big hassle to remove an account and add another one

01:00:32 ◼   ► for withdrawal and I understand why they did that it adds a lot of complexity I

01:00:35 ◼   ► think it adds some opportunity for shady business going on so for me I'm just

01:00:41 ◼   ► gonna use this for personal things I'm not gonna incorporate Apple Pay cash

01:00:44 ◼   ► into into either business but it works as advertised it's it's fast it's it's

01:00:51 ◼   ► pretty simple to understand I get because you're already because it's

01:00:55 ◼   ► within the framework of iMessage a world that we already all know so okay

01:00:59 ◼   ► I'm texting with, you know, Jason, I can send Jason this money. I don't have to go elsewhere.

01:01:04 ◼   ► And I don't have to know his PayPal or dollar account. I don't have to know who what his

01:01:08 ◼   ► handle is, or something like Square Cash. I don't use Venmo. It's already within the

01:01:14 ◼   ► the application that we're using to talk. And so I think it's going to be, I think it's going to be

01:01:20 ◼   ► a big hit. I think people are going to trust it because they trust iMessage, just Apple Pay.

01:01:27 ◼   ► And I think it's going to be a real convenience factor for people who use iOS all the time.

01:01:32 ◼   ► It's not the Mac. In fact, on the Mac, you get a little notification saying, Hey,

01:01:36 ◼   ► if you want to see more about this transaction, open your iPhone. So that's that's a little bit

01:01:42 ◼   ► of a bummer. But it's, it's, it's great. I mean, in testing during the beta, it works exactly the

01:01:49 ◼   ► way you think it would transfers are basically instant the withdrawals really fast. If you take

01:01:53 ◼   ► take the money from Apple Pay to your bank account,

01:01:55 ◼   ► it gets there quickly.

01:01:57 ◼   ► So yeah, I've enjoyed using it and testing

01:01:59 ◼   ► and I'm looking forward to seeing the first time

01:02:01 ◼   ► when someone out in the world says,

01:02:02 ◼   ► "Hey, can I just Apple Pay you this money?"

01:02:05 ◼   ► 'Cause I think that's coming,

01:02:06 ◼   ► I think people are gonna use this.

01:02:08 ◼   ► - Yeah, I really wanna try this.

01:02:11 ◼   ► Because I have my, how can I say it,

01:02:17 ◼   ► American Apple ID and I keep my--

01:02:21 ◼   ► Why is that a shady thing to say?

01:02:24 ◼   ► I have a, as you would say...

01:02:28 ◼   ► Because it requires an American credit card and an address.

01:02:36 ◼   ► And I also keep my region setting to US.

01:02:38 ◼   ► I see the Apple Pay Cash app in iMessage and I can go through the initial setup, but then

01:02:44 ◼   ► it asks me for my social security number, which of course I don't have.

01:02:49 ◼   ► the last missing piece of the puzzle. I don't have a social security number so I

01:02:53 ◼   ► cannot use it. But it looks really nice, it looks really great. You know, I

01:02:57 ◼   ► think the transaction limits make sense, the integration is awesome. Like, I

01:03:04 ◼   ► actually have all these shortcuts on my device, even if they're useless. Like, if I

01:03:08 ◼   ► open my contact card for Silvia on my iPhone, there's a pay icon with a

01:03:14 ◼   ► US dollar icon on top. And if I tap that, it's useless because it doesn't work. But

01:03:19 ◼   ► But all these integrations and the fact that it works with Siri, Contacts, iMessage, I

01:03:24 ◼   ► think it's great.

01:03:25 ◼   ► Hopefully it will launch in Italy before 2025.

01:03:30 ◼   ► So yeah.

01:03:32 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:03:33 ◼   ► Yeah, I hope that we will get it at some point.

01:03:38 ◼   ► It looks really interesting.

01:03:39 ◼   ► I think it's one of the best representations of what an iMessage app can be.

01:03:47 ◼   ► It makes perfect sense that you would do it here.

01:03:50 ◼   ► Even if the iMessage App Store didn't exist,

01:03:53 ◼   ► this is the type of thing that you would want

01:03:55 ◼   ► to be in iMessage, right?

01:03:57 ◼   ► This is sensible.

01:03:59 ◼   ► You only ever typically need to send this money

01:04:01 ◼   ► to a contact that you already know.

01:04:03 ◼   ► You have their information, their information's tied

01:04:05 ◼   ► to their Apple ID, your information's tied

01:04:07 ◼   ► to your Apple ID, let's just make this happen, right?

01:04:11 ◼   ► Rather than needing to go and sign up for like,

01:04:12 ◼   ► "Oh, you want this service?

01:04:14 ◼   ► "No, I want this service.

01:04:15 ◼   ► "Oh, now I need to sign up."

01:04:17 ◼   ► don't nobody wants any of that kind of stuff this is a much better way of doing

01:04:20 ◼   ► it so I think big thumbs up from me like I think that this looks great

01:04:24 ◼   ► yeah agreed well excited about it so Federico this morning you published your

01:04:31 ◼   ► big iPhone 10 review and in typical Federico Vittucci style it's broken into

01:04:38 ◼   ► sections and there's graphs there's screenshots lovely screenshots and I I

01:04:45 ◼   ► I want to talk a little bit before we get into the review itself, talking about the

01:04:51 ◼   ► workflow a little bit.

01:04:52 ◼   ► Is this similar, does this come together in a similar way that something like your iPad

01:04:55 ◼   ► Pro reviews have?

01:04:56 ◼   ► Or is this more like an iOS review?

01:04:58 ◼   ► How do you approach this review this time?

01:05:01 ◼   ► Yeah I would say so.

01:05:03 ◼   ► There's fewer screenshots and media than an iOS review.

01:05:09 ◼   ► That's a different approach that I wanted to try.

01:05:11 ◼   ► I wanted to have more text and fewer, because I'm not reviewing iOS

01:05:19 ◼   ► and there's little point in investing on getting a proper camera equipment

01:05:24 ◼   ► to take iPhone X photos when just about everybody else has taken photos of the iPhone X.

01:05:29 ◼   ► So from the media perspective it was relatively easy.

01:05:33 ◼   ► There's probably 10 to 12 screenshots and photos in the review.

01:05:38 ◼   ► And the writing was also similar to what I did in the past.

01:05:41 ◼   ► I took notes, this time in bare, because I wanted to have markdown.

01:05:45 ◼   ► I wrote the review in Ulysses, and I did the final editing in editorial,

01:05:51 ◼   ► because I needed the automation and the snippets and the workflows

01:05:54 ◼   ► that I used to massage markdown, as they say, and do all my custom things.

01:06:00 ◼   ► And I also used workflow for the battery tests and the benchmarks.

01:06:07 ◼   ► I wrote about this in issue 105 of Mac Stories Weekly.

01:06:14 ◼   ► There's a workflow that I made to automate these battery tests that uses reminders to send me a reminder every five minutes to check the battery level of my iPhone 10.

01:06:25 ◼   ► and I used numbers to keep track of these statistics and I had to use a Mac to generate the chart for the battery section.

01:06:37 ◼   ► I'm not sure if this is possible on iOS or not, I couldn't find the feature on the iPad,

01:06:42 ◼   ► but on the Mac if you use numbers you can right click on a chart and it says copy as PDF.

01:06:48 ◼   ► So what I did, I copied as PDF, then I opened preview and preview as a feature called new from clipboard.

01:06:55 ◼   ► And so I created a PDF file in Preview, I exported the file as a PNG,

01:07:03 ◼   ► and then I used Acorn on the Mac to generate a high quality version and a JPEG, a lower quality version of the chart.

01:07:10 ◼   ► So a little Mac usage for me this time. But yeah, mostly similar workflow to the other reviews.

01:07:19 ◼   ► So let's get into the the battery

01:07:22 ◼   ► testing a little bit. For me, I of

01:07:24 ◼   ► course wanted to know your impressions

01:07:27 ◼   ► and your thoughts on the phone, but I

01:07:29 ◼   ► think the most sort of like long-lasting

01:07:32 ◼   ► part of this review, like I think what

01:07:33 ◼   ► will really be a resource for people for

01:07:35 ◼   ► a long time to come, is the battery

01:07:39 ◼   ► testing. So looking at this you used

01:07:41 ◼   ► everything from the little dinky adapter

01:07:46 ◼   ► that comes in the box that Apple has

01:07:48 ◼   ► shipped for years and years all the way up through what is it a 65 watt what's

01:07:54 ◼   ► the one that comes with the big MacBook Pro? 87. All the way up through an 87

01:07:59 ◼   ► watt 15 inch MacBook Pro USB C brick and you use some third-party stuff as well

01:08:05 ◼   ► so you really went from the the smallest charger 5 watts all the way up to the

01:08:11 ◼   ► biggest thing Apple sells and what I found interesting about this is that

01:08:17 ◼   ► these chargers kind of basically grouped themselves. You had a bunch of high

01:08:21 ◼   ► wattage stuff that basically are charged more or less at the same speed.

01:08:26 ◼   ► And then you have some stuff in the middle, I think some battery

01:08:29 ◼   ► chargers and some wireless stuff. And then you had the stuff at the bottom.

01:08:35 ◼   ► So did you have any surprises in this? And I think the big takeaway is what should

01:08:39 ◼   ► people buy to charge their phones quickly?

01:08:41 ◼   ► Okay so there's a first and important disclaimer here.

01:08:45 ◼   ► This is not the kind of test where I drain my iPhone to zero and then I charge it to 100%.

01:08:52 ◼   ► I decided to do a 60 minute test.

01:08:56 ◼   ► So I wanted to answer this question.

01:08:58 ◼   ► If I only have one hour of free time and I want to charge my iPhone, how do all these chargers

01:09:04 ◼   ► stack up against each other?

01:09:06 ◼   ► So I'm not charging the iPhone to 100%.

01:09:11 ◼   ► And in addition to that explanation,

01:09:15 ◼   ► like I wanna see how much I can get in an hour.

01:09:18 ◼   ► There's also the fact that every iPhone battery

01:09:23 ◼   ► has to account for trickle charging.

01:09:26 ◼   ► And trickle charging happens according to Apple after 80%.

01:09:30 ◼   ► And so it becomes a very different test

01:09:34 ◼   ► if you want to measure all these fast chargers

01:09:36 ◼   ► and the wireless chargers and the USB chargers.

01:09:40 ◼   ► if you go from normal charging to fast charging and eventually trickle charging after 80%.

01:09:46 ◼   ► So I'm only measuring the charge that an iPhone gets in 60 minutes from 1% to up whatever it is that a charger does to an iPhone.

01:09:59 ◼   ► And also, I would say that the takeaway here is the 5W charger, you really shouldn't be using that.

01:10:12 ◼   ► If you want the absolute best experience, you need to get a USB-C adapter from Apple.

01:10:21 ◼   ► Now, I would recommend the basic 29W adapter, which is the one that also fast charges the iPad Pro.

01:10:29 ◼   ► But if my tests in an hour, all the USB-C adapters usually arrive at somewhere around 80-85%, 81-82%.

01:10:42 ◼   ► But I know that the more expensive ones, the 61 and the 87 especially, the difference that they make

01:10:55 ◼   ► can be seen after 80%. So between 80 and 100%, the 87.1 will be faster than the 29W adapter.

01:11:07 ◼   ► But it is a big difference in price point. And really the difference we're talking here,

01:11:16 ◼   ► if you consider the entire 100%, the difference between the 87 and the 29W is probably going to be

01:11:25 ◼   ► 20, 30 minutes. It doesn't really matter at that point. So I would say if you just

01:11:32 ◼   ► want to get your iPhone to 80% in an hour get the 29 watt adapter.

01:11:38 ◼   ► That one is what? 49 US dollars? And then you need a USB-C and a lightning cable

01:11:44 ◼   ► which is like another 20 or so. Yes. So with this one you will get your iPhone

01:11:49 ◼   ► from 0 to 80 in 60 minutes. But if you get the Apple 12 watt adapter, so in my

01:11:59 ◼   ► tests the 12 watt USB adapter, not USB-C, just standard USB-A, it got me around 65

01:12:09 ◼   ► to 70 percent in 60 minutes. Now I'm not sure what's going on here, there's a

01:12:16 ◼   ► footnote in my story about the fact that the iPhone 10 is not always requesting

01:12:21 ◼   ► the proper 27 watt charge from the USB C power delivery spec. There's somebody did

01:12:30 ◼   ► a technical analysis using an electrical measuring tool which of course I don't

01:12:35 ◼   ► have but there's a man then I apologize so I would say that if you if you're on

01:12:42 ◼   ► a budget and if you just want something better than the default charger in the box and you

01:12:49 ◼   ► want to save money, get the 12W adapter.

01:12:53 ◼   ► This has always been the case, even for iPhones before the iPhone X, it's even more true now.

01:12:58 ◼   ► But if you want fast charging and if you don't care about getting the last drop of battery

01:13:04 ◼   ► life in the shortest amount of time possible, don't spend money on the 6e1 or 8e7, get the

01:13:10 ◼   ► 29.

01:13:11 ◼   ► However, if you also have other USB-C devices like a Nintendo Switch or a USB-C battery pack or a MacBook for example, then maybe consider the 61W or the 87W version.

01:13:26 ◼   ► Of course, if you already have a MacBook Pro and you have a 61W adapter or an 87W, then just get a lightning cable and charge your iPhone X as well.

01:13:35 ◼   ► well. So it really depends on what your needs are, how many USB-C devices

01:13:40 ◼   ► you have, but ideally the conclusion is if you're on a budget get the 12 watt, if

01:13:46 ◼   ► you want to spend a little bit more get the 29 watt, you'll be fine.

01:13:51 ◼   ► It's complicated. Yeah, you need to account for all kinds of people, you know.

01:13:57 ◼   ► I want to spend money, I don't want to spend money, I also have a MacBook. I don't

01:14:00 ◼   ► have a MacBook but I have other USB-C devices. You know, whenever you talk about

01:14:04 ◼   ► by USB-C, it gets complicated. It's just impossible to have a simple

01:14:09 ◼   ► discussion about this because it's so versatile and that's awesome, but it's

01:14:13 ◼   ► also the downside that you need to account for all these possible variables.

01:14:17 ◼   ► So, you mentioned this in the article and I want to just underscore it.

01:14:22 ◼   ► It is ridiculous how expensive these are and what actually comes in the

01:14:25 ◼   ► box. I think it's really bad on Apple's point.

01:14:30 ◼   ► This is like, and you mentioned it, I completely agree, it's like the 16

01:14:34 ◼   ► gigabyte storage thing all over again. Yes. They're nickel and diamond customers.

01:14:38 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, I agree. It's just the five watt charger, I think I called it cheap

01:14:47 ◼   ► disgrace in the story and I stand by it because you're spending, I mean, in Italy,

01:14:53 ◼   ► I spent like 1400 something euros on the iPhone 10 and when I open the box, I get

01:14:59 ◼   ► the 5W charger. It's like you're selling me a Ferrari but when I get into the car the

01:15:05 ◼   ► steering wheel is made out of cardboard. And it's like why? I'm paying such a premium for

01:15:12 ◼   ► this device but the charger, the thing that I need to charge the phone on a daily basis,

01:15:20 ◼   ► giving me the the 5 watt one it's like come on in 30 minutes the 5 watt charger

01:15:28 ◼   ► there's a chance you will not even get past 20% of charge yeah which is that's

01:15:34 ◼   ► really bad like that's really bad I have a bunch of questions for you I know

01:15:39 ◼   ► Steven still has some more just about this kind of review and just some more

01:15:43 ◼   ► thoughts on the iPhone X in general but let me take our final break for today

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01:17:32 ◼   ► show. Alright so Federico, love the review. I did want to ask you a very quick question.

01:17:39 ◼   ► Were you concerned about writing a review of a product many months after it came out?

01:17:43 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, I was. And I tried to... because I knew I couldn't... of course I couldn't beat other websites in terms of timing.

01:17:56 ◼   ► And the fact that I didn't get the iPhone X on Friday when it launched, you know, sort of destroyed all my plans for a first impressions story.

01:18:05 ◼   ► So I decided to try something else and

01:18:09 ◼   ► try to

01:18:11 ◼   ► write about the bigger themes that I noticed around the iPhone X and sort of the

01:18:19 ◼   ► the features and and the ideas that will have an impact long term. I didn't want to

01:18:26 ◼   ► sort of talk about Face ID in the sense of like all the first reviews that

01:18:33 ◼   ► rightfully did the comparisons between Touch ID and Face ID, I wanted to try about the long-term impact of Face ID and True Depth camera

01:18:40 ◼   ► as it relates, for example, to attention awareness and what that could do to iOS. So I was concerned, I am still concerned,

01:18:48 ◼   ► I hope that I was able to convey this in the story and I hope that I was able to do a good job,

01:18:53 ◼   ► but I realized if I want to do something that makes sense after a month,

01:18:58 ◼   ► I need to take a look at the big picture instead of, you know,

01:19:02 ◼   ► all the details that the first reviews covered.

01:19:05 ◼   ► I wanted to talk to you about Face ID actually.

01:19:08 ◼   ► Because I saw you writing this, I've seen a lot of people writing this about like how

01:19:13 ◼   ► Face ID is great because it removes the previous restrictions of Touch ID with like wet hands.

01:19:18 ◼   ► Everyone talks about wet hands. Everyone's hands are wet all the time.

01:19:21 ◼   ► And Touch ID, Touch ID was a problem for all of us.

01:19:26 ◼   ► But I really do think that Face ID is just bringing its own new restrictions.

01:19:33 ◼   ► Like it gets rid of the wet hands problem but like I have noticed since I bought my

01:19:38 ◼   ► iPhone how much I touch my face because I can't unlock my phone.

01:19:41 ◼   ► Right, like I have my hand in front of my face or like I'm like in bed and I'm trying

01:19:45 ◼   ► to unlock my phone and I've got my face down in the pillow, right?

01:19:50 ◼   ► So that doesn't work because it can't see my face properly or my favorite one which

01:19:55 ◼   ► you mentioned as well, I think everyone's going through this, I realised that I unlocked

01:20:00 ◼   ► my phone in the morning before I can even properly open my eyes because my phone won't

01:20:04 ◼   ► let it work. And you mentioned for you that you feel that some of this stuff has gotten

01:20:09 ◼   ► better, like these exact examples, but like I don't feel like I'm having much more

01:20:16 ◼   ► luck than I was before with these things. Like I feel like the machine isn't learning

01:20:21 ◼   ► so well for me and I'm still struggling with them but even if they are better even if I'm

01:20:26 ◼   ► getting less of these over time 100% without a doubt face ID fails for me more often on

01:20:33 ◼   ► a daily basis than touch ID did.

01:20:35 ◼   ► Oh.

01:20:36 ◼   ► It's just like I am looking at my phone and I'm trying to wait for it to unlock me and

01:20:40 ◼   ► I get the little doo doo and then I can't find a way like I'm looking at my notifications

01:20:45 ◼   ► and I'm waiting for my notifications to appear and they won't appear and I'm wondering if

01:20:49 ◼   ► I'm noticing it more than you two because I still have that notification thing on. So

01:20:55 ◼   ► you could be reading and it's getting that second read of you, because it will do one

01:20:59 ◼   ► read and then might do another one, where I am noticing every failure because my notifications

01:21:05 ◼   ► aren't available to me. So I'm seeing it more and I am convinced of this without a shadow

01:21:11 ◼   ► of a doubt that that face ID is less is less reliable for me I love it and

01:21:21 ◼   ► honestly like I wouldn't go back seriously I wouldn't go back like it is

01:21:25 ◼   ► less reliable but everything else about it is fantastic so because it when it

01:21:28 ◼   ► does work it works like a billion times better than touch ID because it's just

01:21:33 ◼   ► so much nicer than like totally with you right the idea of like moving your thumb

01:21:37 ◼   ► down and pressing a physical or pretending to be physical button to go

01:21:40 ◼   ► to a place like or to like to not even necessarily go to a place but to

01:21:45 ◼   ► authenticate me like moving my phone to the home button to authenticate me for

01:21:50 ◼   ► one password now just feels like this super strange and weird thing especially

01:21:54 ◼   ► on my phone because my phone's just in my hand well like I have both of my arms

01:21:59 ◼   ► and my hands out when I'm using my iPad anyway like it's a very it feels

01:22:03 ◼   ► different to me right but like with my phone it's like this is wild town but I

01:22:07 ◼   ► I do feel that it is less reliable, like without a doubt for me.

01:22:10 ◼   ► Yeah, it's it's the opposite for me.

01:22:14 ◼   ► I I honestly think that Face ID is much, much more reliable

01:22:21 ◼   ► than face than Touch ID was for me.

01:22:24 ◼   ► And I have the notification setting turned on as well.

01:22:28 ◼   ► And I feel like it's gotten better at recognizing

01:22:32 ◼   ► recognizing my face in the morning.

01:22:35 ◼   ► So yeah, my experience I would say is very different than yours and

01:22:39 ◼   ► I don't know why that is the case. I feel like maybe I

01:22:45 ◼   ► Like when you say I don't use my iPhone when I'm lying down with my face in the pillow in bed

01:22:54 ◼   ► I don't do that. So maybe that's one of the reasons why I haven't noticed

01:22:59 ◼   ► But yeah, overall like the fact like I

01:23:04 ◼   ► the wet hand problem. That was really, like I hated when Touch ID didn't work because

01:23:11 ◼   ► whenever I was washing the dishes or getting out of the shower or like I was playing with

01:23:17 ◼   ► the dogs at the beach for example and it never worked and with Face ID that is not a problem.

01:23:22 ◼   ► So I really noticed that besides the joke. I really actually noticed that difference.

01:23:27 ◼   ► I think that maybe more than Touch ID, Face ID is dependent on your personal situations.

01:23:34 ◼   ► I feel like that there are more things that can be independent to a person than Touch

01:23:41 ◼   ► ID necessarily would have been.

01:23:43 ◼   ► Because inherently the system is vastly more complicated.

01:23:48 ◼   ► What it is doing is incredibly more complicated, so it feels like there are more potential

01:23:53 ◼   ► avenues for a problem to occur.

01:23:56 ◼   ► But yeah, I don't doubt that your situation is fine.

01:24:00 ◼   ► I really don't.

01:24:01 ◼   ► I believe that.

01:24:02 ◼   ► I'm not like, "Ah, Federico's just drunk the Kool-Aid and he's loving his perfect face."

01:24:09 ◼   ► I believe that you are having great luck with it.

01:24:13 ◼   ► But I think that it is just differing from person to person.

01:24:15 ◼   ► But it is not a situation where I'm finding myself being annoyed at it, but I am recognizing

01:24:19 ◼   ► it.

01:24:20 ◼   ► Yeah, I get it.

01:24:22 ◼   ► That Mophie Qi battery that you have, the external battery with the cloth on it, that

01:24:26 ◼   ► thing looks legit.

01:24:28 ◼   ► My Mophie, my original kind of Mophie, my small Mophie that I just have for emergencies,

01:24:33 ◼   ► I think the battery isn't as strong on that as it used to be.

01:24:36 ◼   ► So all right, wait, the Qi one is not the one with the cloth.

01:24:40 ◼   ► The Qi one is just black.

01:24:43 ◼   ► What's the one with the little cloth on it then?

01:24:46 ◼   ► That one is just USB-C. USB-C battery.

01:24:49 ◼   ► Well then, I don't want it anymore.

01:24:51 ◼   ► The Qi one is just a black rectangle.

01:24:52 ◼   ► No, I don't want it anymore.

01:24:54 ◼   ► I like the cloth.

01:24:55 ◼   ► The cloth was cool.

01:24:56 ◼   ► I can tell you that it's awesome.

01:24:57 ◼   ► I have it right now next to me.

01:24:58 ◼   ► I'm talking to you via the microphone.

01:25:00 ◼   ► There's a Qi battery and my iPhone is on top.

01:25:03 ◼   ► I can pick up both with one hand and when I'm done, I can just pick up the iPhone and

01:25:07 ◼   ► go.

01:25:08 ◼   ► There's no cable because it's a battery with a Qi surface on top, which is awesome.

01:25:13 ◼   ► Right now I want someone to make a Qi battery that supports the 7.5W wireless charging on iOS 11.2.

01:25:25 ◼   ► With cloth on it.

01:25:26 ◼   ► That doesn't exist yet.

01:25:27 ◼   ► Put cloth on it.

01:25:28 ◼   ► I'll do it this afternoon.

01:25:30 ◼   ► Yay!

01:25:31 ◼   ► Okay, do a Kickstarter Stephen for a Qi battery with cloth. If it doesn't catch fire, go for it.

01:25:38 ◼   ► When you say that do you mean like if the Kickstarter doesn't catch fire like it's like it's not excitable

01:25:44 ◼   ► I mean the actual battery. Oh, right. Yeah. Yeah don't die try to leave battery

01:25:49 ◼   ► I believe Steven could make a non non flammable battery

01:25:52 ◼   ► Sure. Sure. I believe that you have my we have my three dollars Steven for the campaign

01:25:59 ◼   ► That is not a lot of money. This is really cheap as well three dollars

01:26:03 ◼   ► It's the super fast charging battery with cloth. $3. You heard it here first.

01:26:09 ◼   ► I just need 14 million backers. You know, the math.

01:26:13 ◼   ► You gotta make it up in volume, man. Come on, that's capitalism, man. That's how it works.

01:26:19 ◼   ► Yeah, it's subscription models.

01:26:21 ◼   ► It's the Amazon approach. You should do the Bezos. Do the Bezos. It's $3, but for 20 million

01:26:26 ◼   ► people. It totally works.

01:26:29 ◼   ► So, so what's the long story with the iPhone X?

01:26:35 ◼   ► Right now it's at the high end of the market, it's this phone that's unlike anything else,

01:26:40 ◼   ► but eventually we're going to see these features wind their way down the product line, right?

01:26:45 ◼   ► Where do you see that going in the future?

01:26:49 ◼   ► So I've been thinking about like how will the iPhone X affect the next iPad and the

01:26:58 ◼   ► next iPhones. And I think we can, like, I tried to highlight the sections that I

01:27:04 ◼   ► that I chose to write about, because I think those will be the key elements

01:27:10 ◼   ► that we'll see trickle down to the next iPhones and the next iPads.

01:27:16 ◼   ► The fact that the camera will increasingly get into the 3D space in

01:27:23 ◼   ► in the sense that we'll get more portrait features, more AR features, we'll get perhaps the ability to do portrait videos in addition to photos.

01:27:35 ◼   ► And all this idea of capturing 3D information via the TrueDepth system and making an emoji, that could be applied to a bunch of ideas like,

01:27:46 ◼   ► for example, making a user avatar, like a tiny cartoon, like a Mii character from the Nintendo Wii,

01:27:53 ◼   ► like you could make that with TrueDepth in the future maybe, or I could see how TrueDepth could be brought to the

01:27:58 ◼   ► the rear camera and make an even more powerful portrait mode. And for example, the fact that

01:28:08 ◼   ► iOS will continue to gain more attention-based features, like am I looking at the screen or not,

01:28:13 ◼   ► Am I looking at maybe a specific portion of the screen or am I making a specific

01:28:18 ◼   ► expression that the iPhone can detect right now and maybe do something else

01:28:21 ◼   ► based on whether I'm smiling or not?

01:28:23 ◼   ► And how can Apple integrate all these face recognition things behind the scenes?

01:28:28 ◼   ► So it's not like I'm controlling my iPhone with my face, but my iPhone can

01:28:33 ◼   ► subtly react to what I'm doing.

01:28:37 ◼   ► So there's all these bigger themes and of course, wireless charging, we're going to

01:28:41 ◼   ► get the air power met next year and all the fact that iOS is an entirely

01:28:46 ◼   ► gesture based operating system now with the last button being gone, with the home

01:28:51 ◼   ► button gone, it's all gestures now. So what does that mean for the iPad for

01:28:55 ◼   ► example? So there's these bigger topics that I think will, in a matter,

01:29:00 ◼   ► honestly I think Apple is gonna be kind of aggressive here. I would say that in a

01:29:04 ◼   ► couple of years we're going to see all these features, you know, attention, 3D

01:29:08 ◼   ► camera and wireless charging and the gestural operating system. I'm pretty

01:29:15 ◼   ► confident that we'll get it on the iPad and we'll get it on the, you know, not

01:29:19 ◼   ► just on one iPhone but on multiple iPhones within a couple of years.

01:29:22 ◼   ► So I would be surprised if next year's iPad Pros have a home button and do not

01:29:30 ◼   ► embrace, you know, these gesture only controls or if they don't have Face ID. I

01:29:37 ◼   ► I believe that once the precedent has been set with the iPhone X,

01:29:42 ◼   ► then it's all just a matter of trickling down to the other devices in the ecosystem.

01:29:46 ◼   ► And there are some features that maybe will be more difficult to implement,

01:29:53 ◼   ► like OLED on the iPad, for example.

01:29:55 ◼   ► We have rumors that say that Apple is not going to bring OLED to the iPad next year,

01:29:59 ◼   ► and I can see why.

01:30:00 ◼   ► But overall, the major themes of the camera is now doing more 3D stuff than ever,

01:30:06 ◼   ► and the camera can now authenticate you with your face and recognize your emotions and expressions

01:30:11 ◼   ► and there's wireless charging everywhere and iOS is all about gestures now. I can see that

01:30:18 ◼   ► happening to every other Apple device in a span of two years. I don't doubt that. This is like

01:30:25 ◼   ► the root, right? Like in the way that Touch ID was the root, in the way that Retina screens were

01:30:29 ◼   ► the root, like this is it. This is the future of how these devices will look. So you can go

01:30:35 ◼   ► and find Federico's lovely little review over at maxstories.net. It's nice and chunky and

01:30:42 ◼   ► there are multiple pages and there's a bunch of different really interesting topics that

01:30:46 ◼   ► Federico raises and they're more than what we've touched on today. So you can go and

01:30:49 ◼   ► find that at maxstories.net and Federico is @Vitici on Twitter, V-I-T-I-C-C-I. Steven

01:30:55 ◼   ► also produces wonderful content, colorful content full of spans all space and time over

01:31:00 ◼   ► at five-tail-pixels.net and he is @ismh on Twitter. I am @imike, I-M-Y-K-E. Our show

01:31:07 ◼   ► notes today are relay.fm/connected/171. Thanks again to our lovely sponsors, the five folk

01:31:14 ◼   ► over at Eero, Away and Hover. We'll be back next time. We'll be recording a little bit

01:31:21 ◼   ► later if you listen live because I'm going to be on location in Seattle, but I refuse

01:31:26 ◼   ► to miss the episode so I'm gonna be back on the show next week we all will be

01:31:30 ◼   ► here it's gonna be a wonderful time have by everybody until then say goodbye guys

01:31:34 ◼   ► adios