Connected

00:00:00 ◼   ► [Music]

00:00:05 ◼   ► From Relay FM, this is Connected, episode 170.

00:00:08 ◼   ► Today's show is brought to you by Pingdom, Ting, and Encapsula.

00:00:12 ◼   ► My name is Myke Hurley.

00:00:13 ◼   ► I am joined by Steven Hackett.

00:00:15 ◼   ► Hello, Steven Hackett.

00:00:17 ◼   ► Hey, Myke.

00:00:17 ◼   ► Welcome back from your time away.

00:00:20 ◼   ► Thank you.

00:00:21 ◼   ► Gave a real big obituary from you last week, which was lovely.

00:00:25 ◼   ► Thank you.

00:00:26 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:00:27 ◼   ► And people may notice Federico is not here,

00:00:29 ◼   ► But Federico's not dead.

00:00:30 ◼   ► It's really a very simple explanation

00:00:32 ◼   ► that he had a shift at the Christmas tree farm

00:00:34 ◼   ► and couldn't get off work to come join us on the show.

00:00:37 ◼   ► - He had to go and move some trees.

00:00:38 ◼   ► Federico's Christmas trees has moved.

00:00:40 ◼   ► They've moved to 435 South Geneva Road.

00:00:45 ◼   ► So, man, it's a deep cut.

00:00:48 ◼   ► - That is a deep cut.

00:00:51 ◼   ► There's some links in the show notes to explain that.

00:00:54 ◼   ► But we should move on.

00:00:56 ◼   ► We should talk about follow-ups.

00:00:57 ◼   ► So this document is full of follow-up

00:00:59 ◼   ► because you were gone last week,

00:01:01 ◼   ► and sometimes what happens on this show is

00:01:04 ◼   ► if someone is missing, then the next week

00:01:06 ◼   ► they just talk about all the stuff

00:01:07 ◼   ► that was on the show the week before

00:01:09 ◼   ► 'cause they didn't get to have their say.

00:01:11 ◼   ► And this is what's happening.

00:01:12 ◼   ► But first, I just wanted to quickly revisit

00:01:15 ◼   ► the Spotify library and download limits.

00:01:18 ◼   ► Federico and I talked about that last week

00:01:20 ◼   ► where you can have 10,000 songs in your Spotify library,

00:01:22 ◼   ► but only 3,333 songs downloaded locally.

00:01:27 ◼   ► Basically, we have a ton of email and tweets of people

00:01:30 ◼   ► saying that they've hit this limit.

00:01:32 ◼   ► We kind of talked about, is this theoretical?

00:01:34 ◼   ► Do people really hit it?

00:01:35 ◼   ► People really hit it.

00:01:37 ◼   ► Tyler sent us a link to an article on The Verge

00:01:40 ◼   ► back in May, where Spotify basically

00:01:43 ◼   ► said their quote to The Verge is,

00:01:45 ◼   ► we don't have plans to extend your music limit.

00:01:48 ◼   ► The reason is because less than 1% of users reach it.

00:01:52 ◼   ► I guess the 1% listen to Connected

00:01:54 ◼   ► is the lesson I've learned.

00:01:55 ◼   ► expected that it was like some kind of weird contract thing.

00:01:59 ◼   ► Maybe yeah.

00:02:00 ◼   ► Like that there's some kind of legal requirement that has been imposed upon them, which they

00:02:04 ◼   ► thought was totally fine because who's gonna have more than 10,000 songs on Spotify.

00:02:09 ◼   ► But why would anybody ever delete any music?

00:02:13 ◼   ► Eventually a large percentage of their listener base will get there, right?

00:02:17 ◼   ► Just over time because you're not gonna remove things from your Spotify library because it

00:02:22 ◼   ► doesn't take up any actual space.

00:02:24 ◼   ► So yeah, I find that strange.

00:02:26 ◼   ► - It's super strange.

00:02:29 ◼   ► So we should talk about the HomePod.

00:02:32 ◼   ► As mentioned on last week's show, you were right.

00:02:36 ◼   ► The time, from you predicting this,

00:02:38 ◼   ► the time it came true was one week,

00:02:41 ◼   ► which is extremely annoying.

00:02:42 ◼   ► Yeah, so--

00:02:44 ◼   ► - I just wasn't gonna let this episode go by

00:02:46 ◼   ► without me mentioning the fact

00:02:48 ◼   ► that I accurately predicted the HomePod's delay.

00:02:51 ◼   ► - You did.

00:02:52 ◼   ► So having listened to the episode, I wanted to just point out something that you said.

00:03:00 ◼   ► So you played a fantastic flashback with wonderful dramatic music, which was really just good

00:03:05 ◼   ► work from you. But my favourite thing is in the flashback, I say that they're going to

00:03:11 ◼   ► delay it because they've already missed the holiday season as it is anyway, so it's fine

00:03:14 ◼   ► to delay it because it's too late. Releasing in December is too late for the holiday season.

00:03:20 ◼   ► You said to me on that episode, the previous episode, that they still have time.

00:03:24 ◼   ► You're like, "Oh no, they still have time.

00:03:25 ◼   ► They still have time for the holidays."

00:03:27 ◼   ► Then when the flashback ends, you said that they missed the holiday season, which I thought

00:03:32 ◼   ► was wonderful.

00:03:33 ◼   ► This is just fake news.

00:03:34 ◼   ► It's fake news.

00:03:35 ◼   ► Oh yeah?

00:03:36 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

00:03:37 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:03:38 ◼   ► Can't prove any of this.

00:03:39 ◼   ► Do you want me to put in a multiple tiered flashback into last week's episode, the week

00:03:43 ◼   ► before?

00:03:44 ◼   ► Like how far are we going to take this?

00:03:46 ◼   ► The most important thing about covering this sort of stuff

00:03:50 ◼   ► is being able to change your mind and denying when you do.

00:03:54 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:03:56 ◼   ► - And pretending like it was my opinion all along.

00:03:58 ◼   ► - Yeah, please, yeah, no, mm, mm, yeah.

00:04:00 ◼   ► So it's delayed, there's no news on that

00:04:04 ◼   ► between now and then, still no iMac Pro,

00:04:06 ◼   ► but they got a couple weeks on that, so.

00:04:09 ◼   ► So congratulations, you were right.

00:04:10 ◼   ► - Thank you. - Good, good job.

00:04:12 ◼   ► - I need to talk to you about your to-do situation.

00:04:15 ◼   ► - Interesting.

00:04:16 ◼   ► I'm upset with both of you, but I'll talk to you first because Federico's not here.

00:04:20 ◼   ► Actually, you know what?

00:04:21 ◼   ► I'm going to address Federico right now.

00:04:23 ◼   ► I can't believe he's using things because he's been so much on the API train, right?

00:04:29 ◼   ► Which is like one of the reasons he left OmniFocus in the first place.

00:04:32 ◼   ► And my theory, the reason he is not here this week is because he's trying to avoid these

00:04:35 ◼   ► questions.

00:04:37 ◼   ► But I promise you, dear listeners, I will continue to ask him these questions.

00:04:41 ◼   ► I think we both will because I need to know why he's switched things.

00:04:44 ◼   ► I honestly don't know.

00:04:45 ◼   ► He's not told us anything. I don't know why he's doing this

00:04:48 ◼   ► And I am as interested as maybe some of you are so

00:04:52 ◼   ► That's why I assume he's not here this week as he is dodging. He's dodging the questions

00:04:56 ◼   ► There's something fishy something fishy going on with that guy, but I need to talk to you

00:05:02 ◼   ► Interesting about remember the about remember the milk so

00:05:06 ◼   ► you've switched from todoist to remember the milk and

00:05:09 ◼   ► You said that like the main reason that you changed

00:05:14 ◼   ► That you switched over was because you were fed up with todoist not having sorting right in your project. Yes

00:05:21 ◼   ► But what confused me about this was a few minutes later

00:05:26 ◼   ► You mentioned the fact that there were other adjustments that you were making like the lack of nested lists

00:05:32 ◼   ► And that's just one you just made an adjustment and remember the milk and you're like, oh it doesn't do it

00:05:37 ◼   ► I'll just change the way I do everything and I and I wondered why

00:05:42 ◼   ► You were what's like just so flippantly willing to make this change for remember the milk

00:05:48 ◼   ► But to do is to you burned it down. I

00:05:50 ◼   ► Did burn to do this down? I think that the the importance of those two things is like vastly different in my mind

00:05:57 ◼   ► Okay, it would be great to have nested list and if remember the milk rolled out today, I would I would utilize it

00:06:02 ◼   ► I don't love the fact that I've had a collapse and list into longer ones

00:06:06 ◼   ► but the sorting by date is like the

00:06:12 ◼   ► the thing in my brain that hurts every time I used to doist.

00:06:17 ◼   ► And honestly, ever since OmniFocus 2 rolled out,

00:06:21 ◼   ► OmniFocus 1 on the Mac did this,

00:06:22 ◼   ► and with 2 they got rid of it.

00:06:23 ◼   ► It is something that just is really critical

00:06:25 ◼   ► to the way that I think and work.

00:06:27 ◼   ► So I get what you're saying, and you're right,

00:06:29 ◼   ► this isn't a clean trade-off.

00:06:31 ◼   ► It's not like, oh, I get this one thing

00:06:32 ◼   ► and there's no downsides.

00:06:34 ◼   ► There are a couple downsides.

00:06:35 ◼   ► I have a cow in my dock looking at me

00:06:37 ◼   ► all the time on my iMac.

00:06:38 ◼   ► That's a downside.

00:06:39 ◼   ► - We gotta come back to that.

00:06:41 ◼   ► yeah the branding is really bad but uh so yeah so I totally get you're saying I

00:06:45 ◼   ► think it's fair but I think for me just the difference in importance between

00:06:49 ◼   ► those two things was enough to make it worthwhile. I was definitely on the same

00:06:54 ◼   ► feeling of you like when I switched from OmniFocus to Todoist it really

00:06:57 ◼   ► frustrated me that project lists weren't sorted in date order they're just they're

00:07:02 ◼   ► sorted in like the order you added stuff is kind of how it's done and at first I

00:07:09 ◼   ► it was going to be a big problem but I personally just adjusted really well and

00:07:12 ◼   ► I don't think about it. Now I just remember that there is a

00:07:16 ◼   ► sort of sorted by adding stuff and like I somehow keep this like mental log of

00:07:21 ◼   ► when I think I may have added an item to my list because I use their seven day

00:07:25 ◼   ► forecast is just my way to know what's coming up. I don't look into

00:07:29 ◼   ► individual projects like that.

00:07:31 ◼   ► Well that's the nice thing about all these different apps is they all do things slightly differently so you can kind of find

00:07:36 ◼   ► you know, what makes sense to you like the reason I don't use things and actually downloaded

00:07:42 ◼   ► the Mac demo of things over the weekend because I know Federico is playing with it. And I

00:07:45 ◼   ► was hoping he'd be on the show so we could talk about it. So like I should get familiar

00:07:49 ◼   ► with the new version. And the reason I don't like things today is the same reason I didn't

00:07:53 ◼   ► like things. Whenever last time I used it like six years ago is that they the way they

00:07:58 ◼   ► handle repeating tasks is really clunky. And for someone who I would have had a guess I'd

00:08:03 ◼   ► I'd probably say easily 40% of what's in my to-do system

00:08:07 ◼   ► are repeating tasks, just 'cause the cycle of our business

00:08:09 ◼   ► and our company, and I do a lot of things

00:08:12 ◼   ► at set times of the week or set times of the month.

00:08:15 ◼   ► That's really important to me,

00:08:16 ◼   ► and things is just super clunky in that regard.

00:08:20 ◼   ► So it's as beautiful as things three is

00:08:21 ◼   ► and as fast and reliable as their syncing is,

00:08:23 ◼   ► that is the bridge too far for things for me.

00:08:28 ◼   ► So it's nice that we can find what makes sense

00:08:32 ◼   ► for the individual uses that we need.

00:08:35 ◼   ► And for me, web automation's a big thing.

00:08:38 ◼   ► Natural language processing's a big thing.

00:08:40 ◼   ► And being able to sort of list by due date.

00:08:43 ◼   ► And so far, the only thing I've found

00:08:46 ◼   ► that clicks all three of those is, remember the milk.

00:08:49 ◼   ► - I want to talk about the branding.

00:08:51 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:08:52 ◼   ► - I know it's like a fun thing to make fun of, right?

00:08:55 ◼   ► Like, we do, and it's like a cow,

00:08:58 ◼   ► and it's like this little scribbled thing,

00:09:00 ◼   ► and it's like, ha ha.

00:09:01 ◼   ► But I have a problem with it.

00:09:04 ◼   ► I wouldn't be able to use this app because of it.

00:09:07 ◼   ► And I know that sounds silly,

00:09:08 ◼   ► but the branding of an application is important to me.

00:09:13 ◼   ► And I think it's important to a lot of people

00:09:16 ◼   ► because otherwise why even bother?

00:09:18 ◼   ► Right?

00:09:19 ◼   ► Why go through the time and effort to brand things tastefully

00:09:24 ◼   ► if it doesn't make a difference to anybody?

00:09:27 ◼   ► We're all getting mad about Dropbox and Todoist

00:09:29 ◼   ► for adding their drawings in.

00:09:31 ◼   ► And that's because like at an underlying level,

00:09:34 ◼   ► they're making changes to their brand

00:09:36 ◼   ► that aren't tasteful to us, right?

00:09:38 ◼   ► Like they are starting to like make shifts

00:09:40 ◼   ► to the way that their brand is represented,

00:09:42 ◼   ► which is not the brand that we signed on to, right?

00:09:46 ◼   ► And so I, my to-do app is the most grown up app that I use.

00:09:51 ◼   ► Like I don't want it characterized

00:09:52 ◼   ► of a poorly drawn cartoon cow.

00:09:54 ◼   ► Like I just, it's so weird to me, man.

00:09:58 ◼   ► Like I don't, like they have nice illustrations

00:10:03 ◼   ► on their website even, right?

00:10:04 ◼   ► Like I looked at some of the stuff in the app,

00:10:06 ◼   ► I've seen the little carton of milk guy,

00:10:09 ◼   ► which is like way better

00:10:10 ◼   ► because he's actually the milk, right?

00:10:13 ◼   ► It's not remember the cow and--

00:10:15 ◼   ► - Well, the cow's where the milk comes from.

00:10:17 ◼   ► - Yeah, but is that what they're saying though?

00:10:19 ◼   ► Like are they telling you just to add something

00:10:21 ◼   ► to your to-do list to go and milk a cow?

00:10:23 ◼   ► That's not actually what that means.

00:10:25 ◼   ► Like remember the milk is like,

00:10:27 ◼   ► Remember to pick up the milk at the store.

00:10:28 ◼   ► But I find it so strange.

00:10:31 ◼   ► Like they clearly have designers who do great work.

00:10:34 ◼   ► Like I'm looking at their website.

00:10:35 ◼   ► Their website is very nice.

00:10:36 ◼   ► Their app looks very nice.

00:10:38 ◼   ► Like it's nice and clean and it follows modern design conventions and stuff like

00:10:41 ◼   ► that. But they hang on to this like old drawing.

00:10:45 ◼   ► It's really confusing to me.

00:10:47 ◼   ► Like I really struggle to want to get my head around it.

00:10:49 ◼   ► Like they even have like on their website, they use an outline of the cow, like in

00:10:55 ◼   ► certain places as if it's the app icon, right? Like, they have a page called upgrade, like

00:11:01 ◼   ► their upgrade page. And you scroll like halfway down and it says badges and widgets and they

00:11:05 ◼   ► have a picture of an outline of the cow. It's like, that's fine too. Why do they use the

00:11:11 ◼   ► illustration? It's so peculiar to me.

00:11:14 ◼   ► Agreed. It's problematic.

00:11:17 ◼   ► And I really like, I couldn't, I wouldn't be able to use it. Like, I don't know, I know

00:11:21 ◼   ► it sounds so silly, but I just wouldn't be able to

00:11:24 ◼   ► bring myself to be like, okay, time to sit down

00:11:28 ◼   ► and do some serious work.

00:11:30 ◼   ► Let's tap on the cartoon cow face.

00:11:32 ◼   ► Like, I don't know, it's very strange.

00:11:35 ◼   ► - No, it's fair.

00:11:36 ◼   ► It's problematic.

00:11:37 ◼   ► I wish that they would, I think people would take

00:11:39 ◼   ► the app more seriously if they had a more serious branding.

00:11:43 ◼   ► And then you're right, the website's really good.

00:11:45 ◼   ► And the rest of their stuff is laid out well

00:11:49 ◼   ► and looks good and their colors are all nice

00:11:51 ◼   ► But that icon is just not great.

00:11:56 ◼   ► So, I'm fully caught up from last week.

00:11:59 ◼   ► Good! I'm glad you listened, but I'm more glad that you're back.

00:12:05 ◼   ► Thank you. Today's show is brought to you by our friends over at Pingdom.

00:12:09 ◼   ► You can start monitoring your websites and servers today at pingdom.com/relayfm.

00:12:13 ◼   ► If you go there, you'll get a 14-day free trial so you can see what all the fuss is about.

00:12:17 ◼   ► and when you enter the offer code connected at checkout you'll get 30% off your first

00:12:21 ◼   ► invoice.

00:12:23 ◼   ► Pingdom is totally focused on making the web faster and more reliable for anybody that

00:12:27 ◼   ► has a website.

00:12:28 ◼   ► It doesn't matter how big your website is, stuff breaks on the internet all of the time.

00:12:33 ◼   ► Pingdom detect 400,000 outages every day and this is just with websites and companies that

00:12:39 ◼   ► use Pingdom.

00:12:40 ◼   ► Of course there's way more that are not being detected by Pingdom, although every single

00:12:43 ◼   ► thing should be because Pingdom is so easy to use, it's so awesome, you just give it a URL that you

00:12:47 ◼   ► want to monitor and they take care of the rest. They are emulating visits to your website from

00:12:52 ◼   ► their 70 global test servers, checking its availability as often as every minute. And

00:12:57 ◼   ► if something goes wrong, you'll be immediately alerted to you can fix that error before the

00:13:01 ◼   ► downtime affects you. You can sign up, Stephen if I'm right, it's like SMS and email and they

00:13:05 ◼   ► have push notifications in their app, right? You monitor us for Relay FM with Pingdom.

00:13:09 ◼   ► them.

00:13:10 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean if we go down, all that stuff happens.

00:13:13 ◼   ► There's no, like if I'm on my phone or my computer, I'm not going to miss it.

00:13:16 ◼   ► They just bombard you to make sure that you know what's going on.

00:13:19 ◼   ► So you can choose what ways you want to be alerted, but I think as Steven has, every

00:13:24 ◼   ► single possible way is the best way.

00:13:26 ◼   ► So you will definitely not miss it.

00:13:28 ◼   ► Then you can be the first to know when your site is down.

00:13:31 ◼   ► That's the great thing about Pingdom.

00:13:33 ◼   ► Check it out today.

00:13:34 ◼   ► PINGDOM.COM/RELAYFM for a 14 day free trial and use the code CONNECTED at checkout to

00:13:40 ◼   ► get a massive 30% off your first invoice.

00:13:44 ◼   ► Thanks to Pingdom for their support of this show and RelayFM.

00:13:49 ◼   ► So let's talk about my RSI.

00:13:53 ◼   ► So you remember a couple of weeks ago I was upset, I was concerned that my iPhone was

00:13:58 ◼   ► breaking my wrists and my hands?

00:14:01 ◼   ► So I made some changes whilst taking a vacation and paid attention to some more stuff and

00:14:07 ◼   ► I actually think it was the Nintendo Switch that was causing me troubles more than my

00:14:11 ◼   ► phone.

00:14:12 ◼   ► I don't think that the phone helped but I think it was mostly down to the Switch.

00:14:16 ◼   ► So I'm making some adjustments to the way that I play, right, less handheld switch time,

00:14:21 ◼   ► more pro controller time and that I think has made a big difference.

00:14:25 ◼   ► I will say that like I still feel some slight pain in my thumb every now and then if I'm

00:14:30 ◼   ► using my phone for long periods of time, right, with the new gestures, but I think I'm getting

00:14:36 ◼   ► more used to it and I think that it wasn't the complete problem. I think it was a bunch

00:14:42 ◼   ► of different things, but the iPhone made up a smaller portion of it, which is great news.

00:14:48 ◼   ► But I did, I made an adjustment, so I'm using the silicone case, right, but I've now bought

00:14:55 ◼   ► something called a PopSocket. Have you ever seen these before?

00:14:58 ◼   ► I have seen these before. They are little things that go on the back of a phone or a

00:15:05 ◼   ► tablet or whatever and they sort of telescope out so you have a place to kind of rest it

00:15:10 ◼   ► between your fingers. It's sort of hard to explain.

00:15:14 ◼   ► Yeah, a bunch of people recommended that I try it because they'd had problems and it

00:15:18 ◼   ► was helping them out. And I had seen these before. Mostly like I would see women with

00:15:24 ◼   ► of plus phones with these on the back, right?

00:15:27 ◼   ► So they'd be, have like large phones,

00:15:29 ◼   ► either large Android phones or large iPhones.

00:15:31 ◼   ► And I was always like, what is this?

00:15:33 ◼   ► Like I'd only ever seen them in that context.

00:15:35 ◼   ► Like I'd seen like a lady grab a phone out of her bag

00:15:39 ◼   ► and she was holding the phone

00:15:40 ◼   ► with this weird thing on the back.

00:15:42 ◼   ► And I was like, how do you like do anything with this?

00:15:44 ◼   ► I just assumed it was like a solid thing, right?

00:15:47 ◼   ► That like it didn't pop down.

00:15:49 ◼   ► 'Cause what this thing does, it kind of, I don't know,

00:15:52 ◼   ► it's like half a centimeter flat on the phone.

00:15:54 ◼   ► but then you can pull it out like it extends out

00:15:57 ◼   ► and it gives you a place to hold the phone like the grip it.

00:16:00 ◼   ► So you don't have to put your hand

00:16:01 ◼   ► all the way around the phone.

00:16:03 ◼   ► You can stick it on wherever you want

00:16:04 ◼   ► and it uses that micro suction stuff.

00:16:06 ◼   ► So like it's not glue and you can change move it around.

00:16:09 ◼   ► And I have one on my iPhone now

00:16:11 ◼   ► and I really actually like it quite a lot

00:16:14 ◼   ► because what it's allowing me to do

00:16:16 ◼   ► is adjust my grip quite a lot, which I'm very happy about.

00:16:19 ◼   ► So I can hold it in different ways.

00:16:21 ◼   ► I can hold it in different hands and I can,

00:16:24 ◼   ► I feel like I'm able to kind of hold my phone in a way

00:16:26 ◼   ► that's more comfortable for me.

00:16:28 ◼   ► And also it's an inbuilt stand, which is kind of nice.

00:16:30 ◼   ► You can just stand your phone up now and watch video on it.

00:16:33 ◼   ► And I'm able to get it in and out my pocket very easily.

00:16:36 ◼   ► Like it's not grabbing on anything.

00:16:38 ◼   ► So I might keep it.

00:16:40 ◼   ► I'm thinking about keeping it.

00:16:41 ◼   ► The only problem I have is if you thought

00:16:43 ◼   ► that a camera bump was bad when you put it on the desk,

00:16:46 ◼   ► my phone is unusable on a desk now

00:16:48 ◼   ► because it just, it rocks around like a seesaw.

00:16:51 ◼   ► But I can spin it, which is nice.

00:16:53 ◼   ► So my phone is now, I guess I now have a $1,000 fidget spinner.

00:17:00 ◼   ► You should create a spin the bottle app in conjunction with this.

00:17:04 ◼   ► Not a bad idea.

00:17:05 ◼   ► So I'm looking at their website and I have a lot of important questions.

00:17:08 ◼   ► Mainly what design did you go with?

00:17:11 ◼   ► So I went with, I don't know what the design is called, Monkey Head Galaxy is the one that

00:17:18 ◼   ► I went with.

00:17:19 ◼   ► like a nebula type thing, a space thing,

00:17:23 ◼   ► which I figure you'd like.

00:17:25 ◼   ► Do you see it?

00:17:27 ◼   ► - You can design your own apparently.

00:17:28 ◼   ► - You can. - As the chat room

00:17:29 ◼   ► has put together one with the relay logo on it.

00:17:31 ◼   ► - You can, I didn't, I wanted to just get it quick.

00:17:35 ◼   ► - Sure.

00:17:36 ◼   ► - 'Cause I was just wanting to see if it would be useful

00:17:38 ◼   ► in any way, but I should probably make one, right?

00:17:42 ◼   ► - I think so.

00:17:43 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think I probably will do that at some point.

00:17:47 ◼   ► So yeah, that's what I'm using right now and I like it.

00:17:50 ◼   ► I don't know if I necessarily recommend it to anybody, right?

00:17:53 ◼   ► Like I feel like you would know

00:17:54 ◼   ► if you wanted something like this,

00:17:55 ◼   ► like if you struggle to hold your phone.

00:17:58 ◼   ► I've got it more as just in the same way

00:18:01 ◼   ► that I use a trackpad and a Wacom tablet,

00:18:05 ◼   ► like it gives me the ability to switch hands

00:18:07 ◼   ► and to change the way that I hold things.

00:18:10 ◼   ► And yeah, this phone allows me to do that now

00:18:14 ◼   ► because I don't have to use this thing.

00:18:15 ◼   ► I can still hold my phone normally, or I can pop the little pop socket out and grab onto

00:18:20 ◼   ► it.

00:18:21 ◼   ► I have no idea if it's going to last forever, but for the time being I'm going to keep it

00:18:24 ◼   ► at least until this pain completely goes away, which I know can take a while.

00:18:28 ◼   ► Yeah, well I'm glad it wasn't just the phone.

00:18:31 ◼   ► I didn't have anything else going on when mine acted up, but I think it was, I think

00:18:36 ◼   ► there was some getting used to the phone, and I think when you set up a new phone you're

00:18:39 ◼   ► on it a lot, and now that my usage has sort of settled back down, my hand is mostly okay.

00:18:45 ◼   ► So I too, I think have avoided anything real serious with this phone.

00:18:49 ◼   ► Now at this point in the episode,

00:18:52 ◼   ► everybody is wondering why we have not addressed the very important follow up

00:18:56 ◼   ► item of has Google Docs got drag and drop yet. Um,

00:19:01 ◼   ► and the reason is is because it ends its run and follow up now because it kind

00:19:06 ◼   ► of does. So yes,

00:19:08 ◼   ► Google updated their apps yesterday and have done a couple of things.

00:19:14 ◼   ► one is iPhone 10 support which is nice.

00:19:16 ◼   ► I'm happy about that.

00:19:17 ◼   ► I was actually expecting that would take a lot longer

00:19:20 ◼   ► than what has happened.

00:19:23 ◼   ► So they've added iPhone 10 support

00:19:25 ◼   ► for Sheets and Docs and Slides.

00:19:28 ◼   ► I never use Slides, I choose Sheets and Docs.

00:19:31 ◼   ► So that's what we'll be talking about.

00:19:31 ◼   ► - I don't really have Slides installed.

00:19:33 ◼   ► - Yeah, I don't think I've ever used it.

00:19:34 ◼   ► - I've never used it.

00:19:35 ◼   ► - And they have partly implemented drag and drop.

00:19:42 ◼   ► So they actually said this in their release notes,

00:19:47 ◼   ► but it wasn't completely clear, right?

00:19:50 ◼   ► Like you only really noticed it once you knew

00:19:51 ◼   ► what you were looking for.

00:19:53 ◼   ► You can drag things in to Docs and Sheets.

00:19:57 ◼   ► You cannot drag anything out or around

00:20:00 ◼   ► inside of the applications.

00:20:02 ◼   ► - Oh boy.

00:20:03 ◼   ► - Now, my view on this is like,

00:20:05 ◼   ► this is their step one is how I look at this.

00:20:08 ◼   ► Like this is what they have been able to do.

00:20:12 ◼   ► and I have no doubt that all of this is because of their custom text rendering and all that

00:20:16 ◼   ► sort of stuff. They may never do dragging out, they may only ever have dragging in.

00:20:22 ◼   ► So I'll give you some examples. So with Docs, you drag stuff in, it doesn't keep any rich

00:20:27 ◼   ► text formatting or anything like that as it had previously. Basically it's the same as

00:20:32 ◼   ► copying text and pasting it in. It does, which I do like, you can drag links in and it understands

00:20:37 ◼   ► that they're links and turns them into just text.

00:20:40 ◼   ► And in Sheets, I really like the implementation in Sheets

00:20:43 ◼   ► because you can drag things into individual cells,

00:20:46 ◼   ► which I'm very happy about.

00:20:48 ◼   ► You don't have to like-- one thing I was concerned about

00:20:50 ◼   ► is that you would need to tap the cell,

00:20:53 ◼   ► make the text cursor in there, and then drag it in.

00:20:55 ◼   ► But you don't need to do any of that.

00:20:57 ◼   ► Like, a little plus button shows up

00:20:58 ◼   ► when you drag over any of the cells,

00:21:00 ◼   ► and you can drag the content in.

00:21:02 ◼   ► Now for me personally, this is all I want.

00:21:05 ◼   ► Like I never were, I very, very rarely would drag something,

00:21:09 ◼   ► would need to drag something out of Docs or Sheets.

00:21:12 ◼   ► I'm always just putting information into them.

00:21:15 ◼   ► So I'm kind of cool with this.

00:21:16 ◼   ► Like this is, I wanted them to just do this.

00:21:19 ◼   ► They've done this.

00:21:20 ◼   ► It will be great if they can add the ability to drag out

00:21:23 ◼   ► and around these applications at some point in the future.

00:21:26 ◼   ► But I'm super happy about this.

00:21:28 ◼   ► And I wanted to address something

00:21:30 ◼   ► about Google's implementation of this stuff,

00:21:33 ◼   ► because I see people talking about this,

00:21:36 ◼   ► and we talk about it a lot, right,

00:21:38 ◼   ► but we're making jokes about it, et cetera,

00:21:40 ◼   ► but I think people kind of write off Google

00:21:43 ◼   ► as like, they will never do this.

00:21:46 ◼   ► Like that, I don't think, I think I speak for all of us,

00:21:48 ◼   ► and I don't think any of us believe

00:21:50 ◼   ► that they would necessarily never add this stuff,

00:21:53 ◼   ► because the reason this has been a thing we have spoken about

00:21:57 ◼   ► is because we know the trend of Google,

00:21:59 ◼   ► that they will do it, it just takes them a long time.

00:22:02 ◼   ► that is their history. They will add X feature like split screen or whatever but it just takes them

00:22:08 ◼   ► a long time for whatever reason. So I'd always assumed that drag and drop would come to these

00:22:14 ◼   ► applications but it would just take them as long as it's taken them. Do you agree?

00:22:19 ◼   ► Yeah I don't think there's ever any doubt they're going to get around to doing something.

00:22:24 ◼   ► I think as a matter of that it's just not a huge priority and my guess is

00:22:29 ◼   ► Especially with this like dragging out stuff is that they

00:22:33 ◼   ► very like their apps don't use very much in the way of standard controls or standard layout stuff and

00:22:42 ◼   ► My guess is that anytime something like this happens. There's a lot more work to do on their end

00:22:47 ◼   ► Then other apps we may see on our devices that are more

00:22:52 ◼   ► Closely aligned with what Apple ships in?

00:22:55 ◼   ► the SDK so and I'm mostly okay with it because I'm very confident that the reason that their

00:23:02 ◼   ► Collaboration tools are so good is because they're doing all this weird stuff under the hood, right?

00:23:07 ◼   ► Like they're whatever it is that they've built to make that happen is what makes this development slower

00:23:12 ◼   ► But I'm willing to accept that trade-off like people ask like why don't you use X?

00:23:18 ◼   ► Why don't you use Y instead of Google Docs? And the reason is always the collaboration is nowhere near as good

00:23:25 ◼   ► Agreed. Like it just isn't like no other application can do the real-time collaboration that Google Docs can and you can say oh

00:23:32 ◼   ► I've used this trust me. We've used them all and none of them are as good some of them are fine

00:23:38 ◼   ► But why would we want to have what like the most important feature of all of these tools for what we use them for?

00:23:44 ◼   ► Is real-time collaboration if the real-time collaboration isn't rock-solid

00:23:49 ◼   ► It's never gonna be as good no matter what else the app has and that's why we keep coming back to Google Docs

00:23:54 ◼   ► I agree. And I agree with you too that like, this implementation is super janky. But I

00:24:00 ◼   ► like you because I think we use these tools very, very similar way. I really mostly care

00:24:05 ◼   ► about dragging into docs. And I like you very, very rarely copy anything out of a Google

00:24:12 ◼   ► Doc. And so yeah, like this isn't clearly not ideal. But for the way that you and I

00:24:18 ◼   ► work, it's okay. And I'm glad that this is here as opposed to them waiting until they

00:24:23 ◼   ► could get it going both directions that I will take this for now but I do hope

00:24:28 ◼   ► that they they get it worked out in the future. Yeah exactly, I feel exactly the same.

00:24:32 ◼   ► Last item of massive follow-up today, podcast app redesigns. So they were just

00:24:39 ◼   ► there were two things that we've spoken about in the past and I wanted to just

00:24:42 ◼   ► mention the applications I've seen that updated. So we were talking about Castro

00:24:46 ◼   ► when the iPhone 10 came out and about the fact that they were putting a black

00:24:52 ◼   ► bar at the top of the app, right? And I don't think any of us like that, because it became

00:24:57 ◼   ► very apparent, I think, to most people very quickly that the embracing of the notch design

00:25:02 ◼   ► was the right way to go, while Castro 2.5.3 is out and they are doing it. They're extending

00:25:07 ◼   ► color all the way to the top. So I'm very pleased to see that Supertop reversed their

00:25:12 ◼   ► thinking on this. And I spoke to the guys there and they were like, "We wanted to have

00:25:18 ◼   ► device with us so we could see how it would look before we made any changes. I totally

00:25:23 ◼   ► understand that and I'm happy that they did, right? Like that they saw it and they were

00:25:27 ◼   ► like, okay, we need to change this and they did. So they have, they are embracing the

00:25:31 ◼   ► notch now. Um, but also Overcast just got a true black theme, like an OLED black theme

00:25:39 ◼   ► and it is wonderful.

00:25:40 ◼   ► It is. It's really good.

00:25:43 ◼   ► I absolutely love it because any application that I have that has one of these now, and

00:25:48 ◼   ► are many. Overcast is the only app that I use frequently. It's the only app that's

00:25:54 ◼   ► dark theme is black as opposed to grey and it looks glorious on the iPhone 10. It looks

00:26:01 ◼   ► so so good. I'm very very happy with it.

00:26:06 ◼   ► It is nice and I think we'll see more apps move from grey to black or actually Marco

00:26:11 ◼   ► kept both so you can pick between normal and grey.

00:26:14 ◼   ► Which is the right thing to do because black will still look bad on the non- outlet screens

00:26:17 ◼   ► right which is why none of these dark themes are black.

00:26:21 ◼   ► Yeah it's funny I was scrolling through these the super top tweet and they're now arguing

00:26:26 ◼   ► with somebody about how they can't do a dark a black mode so one step forward at a time

00:26:30 ◼   ► I guess but I think that developers should consider this it does look so nice on OLED

00:26:36 ◼   ► there's indication that it's better on battery easier on the screen and even though I don't

00:26:40 ◼   ► love the aesthetic of dark modes I find myself using them now when they're available on the

00:26:46 ◼   ► the X, not necessarily on my iPad, but definitely on the X.

00:26:52 ◼   ► It's a whole different thing.

00:26:54 ◼   ► I think that a lot of people are hesitant of dark modes because they haven't liked dark

00:26:58 ◼   ► modes in the past, but this is something else.

00:27:01 ◼   ► This is a very impressive thing to look at.

00:27:04 ◼   ► It's not like, "Oh, I want to just have my phone be dark rather than white."

00:27:09 ◼   ► No, this is like, the pixels aren't on.

00:27:12 ◼   ► It looks like everything that you're seeing, it looks like that's all it is.

00:27:16 ◼   ► It's a very different look and I really hope to see more people do this.

00:27:22 ◼   ► And I know everybody has strong opinions about design but if you have a dark mode in your

00:27:25 ◼   ► application you should be having one of these two because all of the people that wanted

00:27:29 ◼   ► your dark mode in the first place will want this.

00:27:32 ◼   ► Like please just add them developers.

00:27:35 ◼   ► I beg of you.

00:27:36 ◼   ► Tweetbot, that's the one I want.

00:27:37 ◼   ► I'm just going to say it's the one I want the most.

00:27:39 ◼   ► I really hope they're going to do it because I have had Android Twitter clients on Android

00:27:45 ◼   ► phones with all the screens. My gosh, it looks incredible. So I really, really hope to see

00:27:51 ◼   ► a tweetbot true black. And that's why I like that name. By the way, I don't know where

00:27:56 ◼   ► that came from. True black. That's a good kind of way to describe these themes. Not

00:28:02 ◼   ► just dark theme. It's like a true black theme. It's like, that's the

00:28:05 ◼   ► agreed. Everyone should have one. We had a question from Eric. I know this was interesting.

00:28:12 ◼   ► What are your current iPad Pro accessory lineups?

00:28:15 ◼   ► I know Federico has changed keyboards, I think every other week, it seems like since the

00:28:22 ◼   ► iPad Pros came out.

00:28:25 ◼   ► I'm using the smart keyboard, it's always attached to my iPad.

00:28:29 ◼   ► If I'm not using the keyboard, I sort of sling it around at the back.

00:28:33 ◼   ► I use it very anytime I'm typing on the iPad, I do it with the keyboard.

00:28:36 ◼   ► I have an Apple pencil.

00:28:38 ◼   ► I don't I don't know the last time I used it.

00:28:40 ◼   ► not a thing that has found its way into my into my working life with the iPad.

00:28:45 ◼   ► What about you? Both iPads have smart keyboards and Apple pencils permanently

00:28:51 ◼   ► attached to them. I attached the pencil with a Leuchtturm pen loop, just a German

00:28:58 ◼   ► pen and paper company, and they make really nice loops in a bunch of

00:29:01 ◼   ► different colors and they're super easy to get and they're cheap and it's an adhesive

00:29:05 ◼   ► you just stick it to the back of the iPad and that's how I keep an Apple

00:29:09 ◼   ► pencil attached. There is a downside of that. Like if you keep the Apple pencil attached

00:29:13 ◼   ► to the iPad, you will need to be charging your Apple pencil all the time because the

00:29:17 ◼   ► connection remains and it drains the battery down. But I'm fine with it because the pencil

00:29:21 ◼   ► charges so quickly. Like I always know when I'm going to want to use it. All I need to

00:29:25 ◼   ► do is just stick it in the lightning port for 15 seconds and I'm ready for like, ready

00:29:28 ◼   ► to go. Right? Like it's not a problem. But yeah, there's just something to bear in mind.

00:29:33 ◼   ► But I do, if you use the Apple pencil a lot, it's only useful if it's attached in my opinion,

00:29:38 ◼   ► otherwise you're going to be looking for it and I like this way of doing it just

00:29:42 ◼   ► to use a pen loop and you can use any type of pen loop really but this is the

00:29:46 ◼   ► one that I've used to great success for the last two and a bit years so that's

00:29:51 ◼   ► that's how I do it so I run smart keyboards Apple pencils all the way it's

00:29:55 ◼   ► the best combo that I have found so far none of the other keyboards for the new

00:29:59 ◼   ► iPads especially 10.5 make me happy so I'm sticking with the smart keyboard

00:30:06 ◼   ► Yeah, I just don't want to deal with Bluetooth stuff. Like it's just, you know,

00:30:11 ◼   ► snap it around and it works. And I think it's a case for the smart connector

00:30:15 ◼   ► being really good, but we talked about this, the smart connectors hasn't taken

00:30:21 ◼   ► off yet, so smart keyboard it is. You know, I should just rename it the keyboard

00:30:25 ◼   ► connector and then just leave it at that, right? Apple only keyboard connector. I like other keyboards

00:30:32 ◼   ► more like I don't love the smart keyboard I'm pretty fast on it but it's

00:30:36 ◼   ► not I prefer something more like the magic keyboard but again talking about

00:30:43 ◼   ► trade-offs not dealing with Bluetooth or like having something that's like

00:30:46 ◼   ► separate from the iPad you know and something that's not bulky then I'm

00:30:51 ◼   ► willing to put up with a keyboard that I don't love as much to get all those

00:30:55 ◼   ► other things my hashtag keyboard opinion is that I love the smart keyboard I

00:31:00 ◼   ► I think it's a great keyboard in my opinion. I like the way it feels. I like the way it

00:31:04 ◼   ► types on it. Everybody's opinions vary on keyboards. That's something I've learned over

00:31:09 ◼   ► the last couple of weeks.

00:31:11 ◼   ► That's been a real situation on the Mac side of things.

00:31:15 ◼   ► Everybody has opinions about their keyboards and I just want to say that I really like

00:31:19 ◼   ► my smart keyboard. And I like my Microsoft Sculptor economic keyboard too.

00:31:24 ◼   ► Also good.

00:31:25 ◼   ► Today's episode is also brought to you by our friends over at Ting. Ting is a mobile

00:31:31 ◼   ► phone service that wants to help you save money. They believe that you should only pay

00:31:35 ◼   ► for what you use, and with prices like $10 per gigabyte of data, the average Ting customer

00:31:40 ◼   ► pays just $23 a month per phone, which is a fantastic price. If you're in the US and

00:31:46 ◼   ► use a cell phone, which I'm sure probably all of you do, well maybe not all in the US,

00:31:51 ◼   ► but if you're in the US I'm pretty sure I feel the same thing. You're going to love

00:31:55 ◼   ► what the folk over at Ting can do for you. Ting doesn't believe in contracts, overage fees or

00:32:00 ◼   ► unlimited plans with tons of catches. They have top rated no hold customer support. When you call them

00:32:06 ◼   ► you will get through to a real person. Ting are focused on offering the best prices that they can

00:32:11 ◼   ► for their customers and any savings that they can make they will pass on to you. You only pay for

00:32:16 ◼   ► what you use. It's a simple model but nobody else does this. 80% of devices made in the last two

00:32:23 ◼   ► years can come to Ting. They support both GSM and CDMA and you can have GSM and CDMA

00:32:29 ◼   ► phones on the same account with them. Ting even allows you to get the latest iPhone along

00:32:37 ◼   ► with AppleCare too. If you're stuck in a contract, Ting will offer a 25% credit off

00:32:46 ◼   ► of your early termination fee. That's up to $75 per device that you bring to Ting.

00:32:51 ◼   ► To get started, go to connected.ting.com and use their handy device checker to confirm

00:32:56 ◼   ► your phone can make the move. If you're looking to upgrade, they have plenty of options available

00:33:00 ◼   ► for you in their online store for you to grab a new handset.

00:33:04 ◼   ► Listeners of this show can get $25 on selected devices or keep it as a Ting credit. Go to

00:33:10 ◼   ► connected.ting.com and see how much you can save. We thank Ting for their support of this

00:33:15 ◼   ► show.

00:33:16 ◼   ► All right. All right. So was the the wonderful tradition of Black Friday very recently and

00:33:24 ◼   ► in Cyber Monday. I don't know if this is the thing I actually do think this is a thing

00:33:27 ◼   ► in the US because we've I noticed that while I was there as much as I've noticed that when

00:33:31 ◼   ► I've been back at home the Black Friday lasts for about two weeks now. Like like Black Friday

00:33:37 ◼   ► sales are just like a two weeks. I don't get this. But sure like it's just holiday sales

00:33:43 ◼   ► period but I also find it funny that we have Black Friday in England which

00:33:48 ◼   ► doesn't make any sense right we don't have the Friday after Thanksgiving like

00:33:52 ◼   ► that isn't a thing that exists here but yet this specific day is now also a

00:33:56 ◼   ► sales day for us but anyway I made a purchase because I saw a good deal on a

00:34:02 ◼   ► Google Home Mini mm-hmm so I bought one they're like 35 pounds now or something

00:34:08 ◼   ► they're like 25% off I don't know if this is if it is a constant thing but I

00:34:12 ◼   ► I thought for 35 pounds, I'll get one of these.

00:34:15 ◼   ► So I did, I got the red one, it's looking at me right now.

00:34:18 ◼   ► I learned as I was beginning the show today

00:34:21 ◼   ► that when you mute the microphone, it tells you,

00:34:23 ◼   ► it doesn't just do nothing.

00:34:25 ◼   ► - So stupid. - Like the echo.

00:34:27 ◼   ► It goes, microphone is muted.

00:34:29 ◼   ► I should just play it for you so you can hear it,

00:34:31 ◼   ► how about that?

00:34:32 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:34:33 ◼   ► - The mic's back on.

00:34:35 ◼   ► - Okay, so now you know what happens when you turn it on.

00:34:38 ◼   ► - The mic's off.

00:34:40 ◼   ► - Why does it do that?

00:34:41 ◼   ► Like it's it's it's the exact wrong thing to do.

00:34:45 ◼   ► I have noticed that a lot about this device, which I will, you know, I'm just going to

00:34:50 ◼   ► jump ahead right now.

00:34:52 ◼   ► Is it designed by Twitter?

00:34:53 ◼   ► That's like a Twitter Inc thing.

00:34:55 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:34:56 ◼   ► Do exactly the wrong thing in every situation.

00:34:58 ◼   ► So I compare the two, right?

00:35:01 ◼   ► So I have an Echo, I'm looking at them.

00:35:03 ◼   ► I have an Echo Dot here and I have a Google Home Mini right here.

00:35:06 ◼   ► So like a lot of what I'm going to say is comparisons between the two.

00:35:10 ◼   ► One of the key things for me is the Google Home Mini says way too much.

00:35:15 ◼   ► It uses too many words in basically every single instance.

00:35:20 ◼   ► For example, I said something which it didn't understand.

00:35:25 ◼   ► And with the Echo, it's like, "Sorry, I didn't understand."

00:35:28 ◼   ► It will say something like, "Sorry, I didn't get that."

00:35:30 ◼   ► Or like, "I can't process that right now."

00:35:32 ◼   ► You know, very quick things.

00:35:34 ◼   ► But the Google Home Mini, it says that. It's like, "Sorry, I can't do that right now."

00:35:37 ◼   ► right now but then it goes but I'm learning all the time like no I don't I

00:35:42 ◼   ► have learned now over my time of Siri and the echo and now with the Google

00:35:49 ◼   ► Home stuff stop saying superfluous cute funny things it doesn't see a problem it

00:35:56 ◼   ► doesn't help and Google Home the Google Assistant does this too it's like I

00:36:01 ◼   ► don't need to know that you're learning all the time because you didn't do what

00:36:04 ◼   ► I asked. I don't care that you're learning. The good thing about the echo in this regard

00:36:10 ◼   ► is if it gets something wrong, it is a smaller period of time until I can try again. Because

00:36:17 ◼   ► I don't know if you like this but I guess it's like a human thing. I wait for it to

00:36:20 ◼   ► finish what it's saying because that's conversation. I guess this is just something in the back

00:36:27 ◼   ► of my head that's making me do this. Or for example, this is another example. I ask it

00:36:33 ◼   ► to turn on a light or turn off a light. So I say like, hey, ahoy device, turn off the

00:36:39 ◼   ► office lamp. And the Amazon Echo goes, okay, and then the lights turn off. The Google Home

00:36:46 ◼   ► Mini says, okay, turning the office lamp off. The lamp is already off. By the time you finish

00:36:54 ◼   ► the sentence. Like, I don't understand the requirement for so many words. Like, it's

00:37:01 ◼   ► It's very weird, it just seems like a poor design decision.

00:37:06 ◼   ► I don't understand how you could, so Google Home has been around for a while, they obviously

00:37:11 ◼   ► compare it to other things, I don't know why they feel the requirement to do this.

00:37:15 ◼   ► My only assumption is they believe it makes people think the assistant is more than it

00:37:19 ◼   ► is, right?

00:37:20 ◼   ► Like, that it is a thing that keeps talking to you as if it is an assistant as opposed

00:37:25 ◼   ► to just a dumb device which does take your commands.

00:37:30 ◼   ► I find it very peculiar. But anyway, so I'll go back a bit. The hardware itself is fine.

00:37:34 ◼   ► I got the red one. It's got that cloth covering and it's got some little lights on it. You

00:37:39 ◼   ► can change the volume by tapping on it. But as we know from previous conversations, you

00:37:43 ◼   ► cannot tap on it to mute it. You have to hit the switch around the back. But honestly,

00:37:47 ◼   ► I kind of prefer that. Like it's always strange to me that it would have two ways to mute

00:37:52 ◼   ► it. Like I feel like that was a bad design decision anyway. So the switch on the back

00:37:56 ◼   ► makes more sense to me than having two different ways to mute and unmute the device.

00:38:03 ◼   ► All of these devices are controlled and configured for applications.

00:38:11 ◼   ► There's a Google Home app which you use to set it up.

00:38:14 ◼   ► The setup was the easiest setup I've had of any smart device.

00:38:19 ◼   ► I didn't have to connect it to a specific Wi-Fi network.

00:38:23 ◼   ► I didn't have to connect my phone to a WiFi network that the device created.

00:38:28 ◼   ► I don't know how it paired, but it did super easily.

00:38:32 ◼   ► And then all I needed to do was put my WiFi password in to save it to the device.

00:38:36 ◼   ► And that was it.

00:38:37 ◼   ► It was a really, really easy thing to do.

00:38:39 ◼   ► And it does something by sound, because the phone makes a noise.

00:38:44 ◼   ► And I think that the home is listening for the noise.

00:38:46 ◼   ► That is genius.

00:38:48 ◼   ► That pairing thing was the best pairing I've had of any of these types of devices.

00:38:52 ◼   ► just works so well. Actually the Canary did a good job too. Like when you're setting up

00:38:56 ◼   ► a Canary for the first time they give you a 3.5mm headphone cable like an AUX cable

00:39:03 ◼   ► which you plug into the device and your phone and it sends a noise to it. So it's the same

00:39:06 ◼   ► kind of idea but this was even better because there wasn't even a cable for me to do. Like

00:39:10 ◼   ► it just paired it and then I just put my wifi password in and it was done. And then after

00:39:15 ◼   ► that right like it's set up and I wanna set it up with integrations right like I wanna

00:39:21 ◼   ► to put my Hue lights on it, I want to see what else is going on.

00:39:24 ◼   ► Right.

00:39:25 ◼   ► Hook up, remember the milk?

00:39:26 ◼   ► Yeah, of course.

00:39:28 ◼   ► I feel like I'm pretty good at technology, right?

00:39:30 ◼   ► I feel like I understand how to use technology.

00:39:33 ◼   ► This is one of the most confusing things I have done in recent memory.

00:39:38 ◼   ► Because their application doesn't explain anywhere where any of these things are.

00:39:44 ◼   ► The Google Home app is really tricky to understand.

00:39:47 ◼   ► And their support documentation is wrong.

00:39:50 ◼   ► This happened to me on two different occasions with two support documents.

00:39:53 ◼   ► It was telling me to press buttons that don't exist in the app.

00:39:57 ◼   ► They are not there.

00:39:58 ◼   ► It was like, "Oh, press this button and press the 'more settings' button."

00:40:02 ◼   ► There is no more settings button.

00:40:06 ◼   ► And I think one of the reasons for this is because I think they made the decision at

00:40:10 ◼   ► some point that for you to get to any of the integrations you have to install the Assistant

00:40:15 ◼   ► app as well.

00:40:16 ◼   ► I don't want to do that.

00:40:18 ◼   ► But now I have to have two applications installed.

00:40:20 ◼   ► So I would hit the Explore tab.

00:40:22 ◼   ► It's like, I'll hit the Explore tab, then you can browse other integrations.

00:40:26 ◼   ► When I hit the Explore tab, all it would say is download the Assistant app.

00:40:30 ◼   ► And you can say no thanks, and it dumps you out to the main screen again.

00:40:32 ◼   ► So you go back to Explore, and it says, hey, download the Assistant app.

00:40:36 ◼   ► All it will let you do is download the Google Assistant app.

00:40:39 ◼   ► And then when you're in the Google Assistant app, you can find all of the integrations,

00:40:43 ◼   ► and they integrate with the Assistant, therefore integrating with Google Home.

00:40:47 ◼   ► I understand if this is what you want to do, but there should be one application.

00:40:51 ◼   ► You should, the home stuff should live inside of the Assistant app then,

00:40:56 ◼   ► if this is what you want to do.

00:40:57 ◼   ► Like, I don't know why I need to have these two different applications to,

00:41:01 ◼   ► to perform the one function that I want. And then like, man,

00:41:06 ◼   ► I thought that Amazon's UI for browsing integrations and skills was bad.

00:41:10 ◼   ► Google's is so much worse. And I do not expect that from Google.

00:41:16 ◼   ► I expect good design and it is confusing.

00:41:19 ◼   ► They do a really bad job of breaking things out into categories.

00:41:22 ◼   ► It's not spread out very well.

00:41:24 ◼   ► It's really difficult to find anything.

00:41:26 ◼   ► And like I searched for IFTTT, came up in the search results,

00:41:30 ◼   ► I tapped it and I'm taken to a broken blank page inside of the app

00:41:35 ◼   ► with no way to enable it.

00:41:36 ◼   ► So then I go to IFTTT and I enable it through them.

00:41:39 ◼   ► Like I'm really disappointed with this device so far.

00:41:44 ◼   ► Like I'm going to keep it because I'm interested in trying some of the things more that it

00:41:50 ◼   ► can do.

00:41:51 ◼   ► Like I'm thinking about getting a Chromecast because I like the idea of like being able

00:41:57 ◼   ► to summon YouTube videos with my voice and stuff like that.

00:41:59 ◼   ► That sounds like a fun little thing to do.

00:42:02 ◼   ► And I bet it does and I haven't really done any big tests on this but like the Google

00:42:06 ◼   ► search stuff being built in I bet is going to be way better for getting answers to questions.

00:42:12 ◼   ► But the whole setup process of this device has been pretty bad and is only accentuated

00:42:18 ◼   ► by the fact that my experience with the Amazon Echo has been vastly superior so far, which

00:42:24 ◼   ► is very surprising to me.

00:42:26 ◼   ► Yeah, you don't think about Amazon being the company in that scenario that gets it right.

00:42:32 ◼   ► I really expected better from Google in this and I'm sure that if you've never used an

00:42:37 ◼   ► Echo you probably don't recognize a bunch of these things, but I think the thing that

00:42:41 ◼   ► frustrates me the most is the application stuff, right?

00:42:44 ◼   ► That like, why can I not enable skills for my Google Home

00:42:49 ◼   ► in the Google Home app?

00:42:50 ◼   ► Why do I have to download the Google Assistant app?

00:42:52 ◼   ► Yeah, that feels a little lazy, that they're

00:42:55 ◼   ► sort of bunting out to the system

00:42:56 ◼   ► they already have in the Assistant.

00:42:58 ◼   ► It's funny that you call it lazy.

00:43:00 ◼   ► Like, this to me speaks of design by committee.

00:43:04 ◼   ► The Google Assistant team really want that app

00:43:07 ◼   ► installed on people's devices.

00:43:08 ◼   ► Like, that's what I see has happened here.

00:43:11 ◼   ► they're like oh we've they got to download that one too. It's a strategy tax right?

00:43:14 ◼   ► Yes. Yeah. That's more important to the company than home is ultimately I think.

00:43:19 ◼   ► Yep it is because it's just everywhere. And so they're willing to punish you for

00:43:24 ◼   ► their corporate strategy. Yep. Which is really annoying. But yeah you sent yours back right?

00:43:30 ◼   ► You got the big one. I gave it to my brother-in-law. Okay. It sat around past

00:43:37 ◼   ► the return date and I was saying it to him when he was in town a couple weeks ago.

00:43:39 ◼   ► Does he like it? I actually haven't asked him about it. I don't know. I should I

00:43:44 ◼   ► should ask him. I think he listens. So Whit, if you like Google Home, text me.

00:43:48 ◼   ► Oh, hi Whit. Hey, it's so interesting that on the surface the Echo and the Google

00:43:55 ◼   ► Home are really similar products, right? They do basically the same type of

00:44:01 ◼   ► things, they look kind of the same way, but that they are treated so differently

00:44:05 ◼   ► and set up. I just find that sort of thing really interesting. The other thing I find

00:44:11 ◼   ► interesting is I'm on the Google Home Help page at support.google.com. I've used Google

00:44:16 ◼   ► stuff like I had a Gmail account back when it was like invite only. I've been a Google

00:44:21 ◼   ► user for a really long time and I've never seen this on a page. At the top it's choose

00:44:27 ◼   ► your help center. US, UK, Canada, Australia, phone numbers, links. And at the bottom, hey,

00:44:33 ◼   ► I could chat with a member of the Google Home Help team.

00:44:36 ◼   ► I could just start chatting with them.

00:44:38 ◼   ► I don't know if Google realizes people are having trouble

00:44:43 ◼   ► or that Google is finally, after all of these years,

00:44:47 ◼   ► realizing that if you're gonna have a consumer product,

00:44:50 ◼   ► you have to offer support for it.

00:44:53 ◼   ► That's kind of the problem with Gmail and Google Calendar

00:44:56 ◼   ► is that it's extremely difficult to speak to somebody

00:45:01 ◼   ► phone or over chat or over email and like a customer service role. They have really

00:45:06 ◼   ► good support documents, but they have always lacked that sort of human touch to their support.

00:45:15 ◼   ► And it seems like with Google Home, they're changing that. Maybe it's better with the

00:45:18 ◼   ► pixels? I haven't bought a...

00:45:19 ◼   ► I expect that a lot of this changed when they started making hardware. Like the software

00:45:25 ◼   ► stuff, you know, you can mostly shake a lot of those things off and they have been able

00:45:30 ◼   ► to, right, for so long. Like you can kind of just hope that people will find it in the forums.

00:45:34 ◼   ► But when you're making hardware products, you have to offer support. And they do that,

00:45:39 ◼   ► right? Like in a way that they never have before. Like, Made by Google is a serious effort from them,

00:45:45 ◼   ► full of problems right now. But like, that's that's a story for probably for a year in the

00:45:50 ◼   ► year in review episode. But they are trying to be a hardware company. And at that point,

00:45:57 ◼   ► they need to have customer support and it looks like they are doing a better job of it.

00:46:00 ◼   ► I think they're getting there. You know, Apple, um, Apple people like to sort of ding Google for

00:46:07 ◼   ► that. And I think that's fair to a degree, but I think also, I think we have to say that they

00:46:13 ◼   ► are improving. I guess you can't walk in a Google store and have your, you know, the screen on your

00:46:17 ◼   ► pixel two that you broke, you know, replaced same day like you can an iPhone, but Google's at the

00:46:23 ◼   ► very beginning of this. And I think they're at the very least moving in the right direction.

00:46:27 ◼   ► Like, yeah, it kind of stinks that your user experience was kind of crummy on the home.

00:46:31 ◼   ► But I bet they I bet they improve it over time. And it seems like at the very least, if you have

00:46:36 ◼   ► some sort of hardware issue with it, then you know, you're going to be set in a whole bunch of

00:46:41 ◼   ► different ways to get in touch with somebody have them take care of it for you. And I think that's

00:46:45 ◼   ► a really important thing that they've missed for a long time. And it's encouraging to see them sort

00:46:52 ◼   ► sort of get on the right track.

00:46:54 ◼   ► - Yep, I think so too.

00:46:55 ◼   ► I will say the voice sounds a lot better.

00:46:58 ◼   ► - Yeah, it does.

00:47:00 ◼   ► - The voice technology that Google has, understandably,

00:47:04 ◼   ► is vastly superior to what Amazon has.

00:47:09 ◼   ► - I think it's best on the market.

00:47:10 ◼   ► I think it's better than Siri,

00:47:12 ◼   ► I think it's better than anything I've heard.

00:47:13 ◼   ► - And I haven't done any extensive tests with this yet,

00:47:16 ◼   ► but it's got the whole,

00:47:18 ◼   ► and it talks about it in the setup process,

00:47:20 ◼   ► like the training of the voice patterns

00:47:22 ◼   ► and how it remembers who you are and stuff like that.

00:47:25 ◼   ► And I believe that Siri has this

00:47:27 ◼   ► and I believe that Amazon have this to a point,

00:47:29 ◼   ► but it seems pretty hidden.

00:47:30 ◼   ► Like Google is very bullish about it.

00:47:32 ◼   ► They call it out as a feature

00:47:34 ◼   ► when everybody else uses it as a way to avoid problems.

00:47:37 ◼   ► But they're like, nope, we'll be able to detect you

00:47:39 ◼   ► and be able to say who you are

00:47:41 ◼   ► and work out who you are and that kind of stuff.

00:47:42 ◼   ► So I don't know, my time is not done with this device.

00:47:45 ◼   ► I'm not ready to put it back in a box and send it off.

00:47:48 ◼   ► A lot of my frustrations I believe are coming because I am used to something different.

00:47:53 ◼   ► But I expect that there are many more things that I will come into contact with with a

00:47:57 ◼   ► device that are better.

00:47:59 ◼   ► And so I'm keen to see how it goes.

00:48:02 ◼   ► For example, the Assistant app, if I got into that, I can see that being really good.

00:48:08 ◼   ► Me being able to ask Todoist by text stuff and rather, to be able to use the integrations

00:48:15 ◼   ► rather than just voice, you can also send it queries.

00:48:18 ◼   ► Like, that is really interesting,

00:48:20 ◼   ► and I am keen to play around with more of that.

00:48:23 ◼   ► There are good things here, and I bet, like,

00:48:26 ◼   ► people that are in the Google ecosystem,

00:48:28 ◼   ► I bet this device is fantastic, right?

00:48:31 ◼   ► Because you can have it send stuff to your phone

00:48:33 ◼   ► and stuff like that. And I wonder if--

00:48:35 ◼   ► I mean, again, I haven't tried. I will play around with it.

00:48:37 ◼   ► Some more, it should do this. If it doesn't,

00:48:39 ◼   ► it should be able to send stuff to the Assistant app for me, right?

00:48:42 ◼   ► Like, if I need directions and stuff as a way to get it

00:48:44 ◼   ► get through to my iPhone but like to be able to have that kind of deep hook in

00:48:48 ◼   ► is really interesting and is what I hope Apple will be able to do right with the

00:48:54 ◼   ► HomePod like I really hope that there is that maybe some of the story maybe some

00:48:58 ◼   ► of the reason that it's delayed is that they want to add more they want to do

00:49:02 ◼   ► more with it that's my hope and if that's what's gonna happen but I think

00:49:05 ◼   ► down the line Apple will have a device if it's not the HomePod that will be

00:49:09 ◼   ► better at doing some of this stuff. But Google is very far ahead with that. Like

00:49:14 ◼   ► the way that it integrates several of these products into their ecosystem, they

00:49:18 ◼   ► are the leader in this right now because they have the Google

00:49:21 ◼   ► Assistant and it's everywhere on everything and that's really interesting.

00:49:25 ◼   ► Like you know like their computers, the Pixelbook has a button right and you can

00:49:30 ◼   ► talk to it or you can write to it. Like it's really interesting in a way

00:49:36 ◼   ► that Siri isn't because Siri is still like these instances as opposed to this

00:49:45 ◼   ► one cohesive net which it seems like Google is casting across its products

00:49:49 ◼   ► where like you can talk to Siri but you are talking to Siri on this device like

00:49:55 ◼   ► it is this one Siri is how it feels right because as well like it the things

00:50:00 ◼   ► it can do differ on all of these different devices where it feels to me

00:50:05 ◼   ► like the assistant, the Google Assistant, is way more cohesive across its product line.

00:50:11 ◼   ► So yeah, and that's something that Google and Apple have over Amazon. You know, I think

00:50:19 ◼   ► the Echo, at least in mindshare, is probably the most popular sort of home assistant device,

00:50:25 ◼   ► if not in shared numbers, but they struggle to integrate with things like your calendar,

00:50:32 ◼   ► or your contacts or your reminders because they don't,

00:50:36 ◼   ► like no one uses Amazon services for that other stuff.

00:50:39 ◼   ► Or Amazon doesn't offer services in those realms.

00:50:42 ◼   ► But if you have a Google Home and you use Google Calendar,

00:50:46 ◼   ► even if you're on an iPhone, that gets you linked up.

00:50:49 ◼   ► And if you have an Android phone,

00:50:51 ◼   ► maybe you can even do more, and HomePod and iCloud,

00:50:54 ◼   ► and that's really where you get the benefit

00:50:57 ◼   ► of being all in one ecosystem.

00:51:00 ◼   ► And I've thought a lot about this

00:51:01 ◼   ► I use Gmail and I use Google contacts and use Google calendars on an iPhone and a Mac.

00:51:07 ◼   ► And I do that for a bunch of really specific reasons that aren't really important for this

00:51:11 ◼   ► conversation.

00:51:12 ◼   ► But you know, so far, I haven't felt like I've lost out on any cool integration stuff

00:51:18 ◼   ► because the Google stuff is so well supported in iOS.

00:51:22 ◼   ► But if we were to get the HomePod, and for some reason it were really to click in our

00:51:25 ◼   ► household, you know, would I be tempted to move some stuff back into iCloud so I could

00:51:29 ◼   ► maybe have it there too?

00:51:30 ◼   ► Like, these companies are playing chess

00:51:34 ◼   ► with all these different pieces of our data

00:51:36 ◼   ► and they want us, and it's beneficial to customers,

00:51:39 ◼   ► to be all in on one.

00:51:41 ◼   ► And I think ultimately that's probably gonna hurt Amazon

00:51:44 ◼   ► in the long run unless they really strike some deal

00:51:49 ◼   ► with Google to have full-blown access to a Google account.

00:51:54 ◼   ► And Apple's never gonna do that with iCloud,

00:51:55 ◼   ► so they're always gonna be behind there.

00:51:57 ◼   ► And looking out, several years down the road,

00:52:00 ◼   ► I just wonder how that'll play out once these devices really

00:52:05 ◼   ► become more mature and the services that hold them

00:52:08 ◼   ► all together become more powerful.

00:52:10 ◼   ► My expectation is Amazon knows this fate,

00:52:12 ◼   ► which is why they are making so many of these things.

00:52:15 ◼   ► In the next two years, there'll be an echo for everything.

00:52:21 ◼   ► And I think that's the point.

00:52:23 ◼   ► They're trying to make an ecosystem which is just this,

00:52:26 ◼   ► because they can't plug into anything else.

00:52:28 ◼   ► And I think they're very aware of that.

00:52:30 ◼   ► That's their Achilles' heel in this, right?

00:52:31 ◼   ► There is no phone, that's the problem.

00:52:33 ◼   ► And there's never gonna be, right?

00:52:35 ◼   ► Like, they're never gonna, they can't do this now.

00:52:38 ◼   ► They failed too many times.

00:52:40 ◼   ► The phone thing is gone for them.

00:52:42 ◼   ► So they're trying to just build the home stuff

00:52:45 ◼   ► and make their home stuff super strong

00:52:47 ◼   ► in the hope that you will just use the home stuff, right?

00:52:49 ◼   ► And you'll be good with that.

00:52:51 ◼   ► Because they're not gonna be able

00:52:52 ◼   ► to build the entire ecosystem.

00:52:54 ◼   ► Which, I mean, if they can do it though,

00:52:57 ◼   ► it's great for them.

00:52:57 ◼   ► because all this is for is to sell more stuff.

00:53:00 ◼   ► Right, that's the plan.

00:53:02 ◼   ► Sell more stuff and integrate with their winning services

00:53:05 ◼   ► like Prime, right, and Prime Video.

00:53:07 ◼   ► That's what all this is for,

00:53:09 ◼   ► and as long as they can keep building compelling products

00:53:11 ◼   ► and they're gonna keep people in that ecosystem,

00:53:13 ◼   ► but it might not be the overall piece,

00:53:14 ◼   ► which they obviously wanted,

00:53:16 ◼   ► but they weren't able to achieve.

00:53:18 ◼   ► And I think they're too far behind now.

00:53:20 ◼   ► - Agreed.

00:53:22 ◼   ► - All right, today's show is also brought to you

00:53:24 ◼   ► by our friends over at Encapsula.

00:53:26 ◼   ► They will help you delight visitors to your site whilst also frustrating those nasty attackers

00:53:30 ◼   ► because of their bulletproof security options and fast content delivery network.

00:53:35 ◼   ► Right now somewhere in the world a website is being attacked by some giant botnet that

00:53:40 ◼   ► is scraping their content trying to smash into databases and ultimately bring the site

00:53:44 ◼   ► down.

00:53:45 ◼   ► All of this stuff is very scary, no one wants to think about these things and that's why

00:53:49 ◼   ► you should use Encapsula because they work super hard to protect websites of all sizes

00:53:53 ◼   ► with a network that can process 30 billion attacks per second.

00:53:57 ◼   ► That's a lot of attacks.

00:53:59 ◼   ► I think you're pretty set.

00:54:00 ◼   ► They are super good at what they do.

00:54:02 ◼   ► This is why Encapsular have successfully defended some of the largest website attacks on record.

00:54:07 ◼   ► And if something bad happened to you, your visitors are never going to know because their

00:54:10 ◼   ► content delivery network is so fast, people can continue browsing your site even if they

00:54:15 ◼   ► are having to work hard to protect it against something nasty.

00:54:19 ◼   ► As a listener of this show, you can get one whole month of service for free with Encapsula.

00:54:23 ◼   ► Just go to Encapsula.com/connected.

00:54:26 ◼   ► That is I-N-C-A-P-S-U-L-A.com/connected.

00:54:30 ◼   ► Check it out right now to find out more about what Encapsula can do for you and claim that

00:54:34 ◼   ► free month.

00:54:35 ◼   ► Give Encapsula a try.

00:54:36 ◼   ► You're not going to regret it.

00:54:37 ◼   ► Thank you so much to Encapsula for their support of this show.

00:54:40 ◼   ► I'm really a fan.

00:54:43 ◼   ► I do not understand this topic heading because it says "Trying Windows Again."

00:54:48 ◼   ► This is a very all over the place episode.

00:54:51 ◼   ► I am now an Android user and Steven is a Windows user.

00:54:56 ◼   ► Better eco should never leave.

00:54:58 ◼   ► - So there's been a lot of conversation about the state

00:55:04 ◼   ► of Apple hardware, which we do not need to retry this week.

00:55:07 ◼   ► We do not need to retry it.

00:55:09 ◼   ► But something that comes out of these debates sometimes

00:55:13 ◼   ► is if Apple doesn't fix the MacBook Pro,

00:55:17 ◼   ► I'll just buy a Surface Book.

00:55:19 ◼   ► Or if there's not a Mac Pro that meets my needs,

00:55:22 ◼   ► I'll just build a PC to edit video on.

00:55:25 ◼   ► There's a couple comments this weekend about Windows

00:55:29 ◼   ► is receiving active development and the Mac OS is dead,

00:55:34 ◼   ► which I can't disagree with more strongly.

00:55:36 ◼   ► But all of that has sort of been like

00:55:39 ◼   ► running around in my head as we've had these conversations

00:55:41 ◼   ► about Mac hardware.

00:55:43 ◼   ► And I've got a background as a Windows user,

00:55:47 ◼   ► actually like a Windows admin at a job for like four years in like Windows Vista

00:55:51 ◼   ► in seven days and so I'm familiar with it but I don't run it day to day. I haven't

00:55:57 ◼   ► run it day to day since like 2012, 2013 and I thought that would be interesting

00:56:03 ◼   ► just to kind of see like I haven't really spent time with Windows 10. What of

00:56:08 ◼   ► my existing workflow without changing anything could I just pick up and put on

00:56:12 ◼   ► Windows say that the Mac went away today and had to use Windows, what would what

00:56:18 ◼   ► would my what my options be right so it's kind of taking the iPad out of the

00:56:22 ◼   ► equation for a little bit I know that's a little unfair but this is the thought

00:56:25 ◼   ► experiment I sort of came up with so after like arguing with boot camp for

00:56:30 ◼   ► like an hour and a half on my MacBook Pro and maybe like breaking my boot

00:56:34 ◼   ► volume temporarily I end up just having Windows 10 install into VMware fusion so

00:56:39 ◼   ► virtual machine so I'm still running Mac OS but have Windows full screen and it's

00:56:46 ◼   ► interesting I haven't really spent time with Windows 10 it's still very much

00:56:49 ◼   ► Windows like if you've used Windows in the last decade right you're not gonna

00:56:53 ◼   ► get lost no you know people say like the Mac OS interface is kind of stagnant

00:57:01 ◼   ► well I think I mean Windows 10 like they keep rearranging the start menu but past

00:57:04 ◼   ► that it's still Windows. They tried right but obviously yeah it did not go well

00:57:10 ◼   ► now it's an option if you want the Windows 8 style like full screen full

00:57:15 ◼   ► screen deal. What I was really surprised by and this is a benefit of the pay for

00:57:21 ◼   ► a service and get the apps sort of ecosystem we live in now that most of my

00:57:25 ◼   ► major apps are fine on Windows. So Slack, 1Password we pay for 1Password for

00:57:30 ◼   ► teams at Relay so I could log into my Relay account online and download

00:57:34 ◼   ► one password for Windows for free. Dropbox of course Chrome. I pay for text

00:57:38 ◼   ► expander their syncing service. They have a Windows app. You get it if you pay for the syncing

00:57:43 ◼   ► service. Text expander on Windows blew my mind. All that stuff installed fine. I

00:57:48 ◼   ► could configure it fine. You know they're sort of like the core Mac apps. Windows

00:57:54 ◼   ► has like the Mac mail contacts calendar apps. They work okay with Gmail stuff. The

00:58:01 ◼   ► The calendar app had this funny bug where it was showing me everything, every event

00:58:05 ◼   ► ever declined and I could not figure how to turn it off.

00:58:08 ◼   ► So that's annoying but I'm sure it's sitting somewhere.

00:58:10 ◼   ► Sometimes you need regret in your calendar.

00:58:13 ◼   ► It was full of regret.

00:58:16 ◼   ► Full of regret.

00:58:18 ◼   ► I do have some iCloud only stuff like notes and photos I have just in iCloud.

00:58:23 ◼   ► And Apple's solution is use the browser.

00:58:26 ◼   ► You can install iCloud for Windows.

00:58:28 ◼   ► It's this control panel and it syncs some stuff.

00:58:30 ◼   ► I did not touch that thing.

00:58:32 ◼   ► - That's not good.

00:58:34 ◼   ► - So if I wanted notes, you know, I gotta use a browser.

00:58:37 ◼   ► There's no great markdown editors,

00:58:38 ◼   ► there are a few different options.

00:58:40 ◼   ► There's obviously no Logic or Final Cut,

00:58:41 ◼   ► but if you use the Adobe apps, they're basically the same.

00:58:44 ◼   ► So if I were to use Audition and Premiere,

00:58:48 ◼   ► instead of Logic and Final Cut, then I could move over.

00:58:51 ◼   ► And I think that's where a lot of this comes from,

00:58:54 ◼   ► is like high-end users of like, hey,

00:58:56 ◼   ► you know, I'm using the Adobe apps and they work on Windows.

00:59:00 ◼   ► basically the same way, so why not build a PC

00:59:02 ◼   ► with like a crazy GPU and just go to town?

00:59:05 ◼   ► That's a perfectly valid move, if that's what you need to do.

00:59:10 ◼   ► So I kinda walked, I'm still doing it,

00:59:14 ◼   ► I actually did most of my work yesterday

00:59:17 ◼   ► in this Windows VM, like did my relay administration stuff,

00:59:21 ◼   ► did some writing, prepared for the show,

00:59:23 ◼   ► as much of it as possible in Windows.

00:59:26 ◼   ► And the short answer is, I could do it.

00:59:29 ◼   ► The longer answer is I have no intention on doing it.

00:59:32 ◼   ► The-- - You don't wanna do it.

00:59:34 ◼   ► - No, no, just because the apps are there

00:59:37 ◼   ► doesn't mean I enjoy using the operating system, right?

00:59:41 ◼   ► It's still Windows, it's still fragile

00:59:44 ◼   ► in the way that Windows is fragile.

00:59:45 ◼   ► - All right, let me ask you about that though.

00:59:47 ◼   ► What's wrong with it?

00:59:48 ◼   ► - What's wrong with Windows?

00:59:50 ◼   ► - Yeah. - It's gross.

00:59:51 ◼   ► Windows is gross, man. - Why, why?

00:59:53 ◼   ► - I'm gonna sound like one of those people that,

00:59:58 ◼   ► people quote when they hate Apple fans.

01:00:01 ◼   ► I just, the Mac is much more comfortable

01:00:06 ◼   ► and more cohesively thought out than Windows is, I think.

01:00:09 ◼   ► I think Windows is still suffering from the,

01:00:11 ◼   ► Windows 8 tried to redo everything,

01:00:14 ◼   ► and Windows 10 is sort of like Windows 7 plus Windows 8,

01:00:17 ◼   ► and it's better than it used to be,

01:00:20 ◼   ► but there are still times where it's sort of confusing

01:00:23 ◼   ► like where things are or how things work.

01:00:26 ◼   ► And I will admit that I'm new to this,

01:00:28 ◼   ► And so I'm sure this gets better with time.

01:00:31 ◼   ► But I think Windows just doesn't feel as polished to me

01:00:35 ◼   ► and doesn't feel as thoughtfully considered

01:00:39 ◼   ► as the Mac does.

01:00:41 ◼   ► Now, I'm going into this with all the biases I have

01:00:46 ◼   ► of being a long time Mac user.

01:00:48 ◼   ► This is not an objective test

01:00:50 ◼   ► by any stretch of the imagination.

01:00:52 ◼   ► But it doesn't feel like an OS that I want to use.

01:00:58 ◼   ► and it's still weirdness, right?

01:00:59 ◼   ► So I installed 64-bit Windows 10,

01:01:03 ◼   ► and it's like, oh, I'll install the 64-bit version of Slack,

01:01:07 ◼   ► and that version just wouldn't install.

01:01:08 ◼   ► It gave me like DLL errors on a brand new Windows install.

01:01:12 ◼   ► And it's like, well, that's weird.

01:01:12 ◼   ► So I downloaded the 32-bit version of Slack,

01:01:14 ◼   ► and it installs fine.

01:01:16 ◼   ► I don't know if that's Slack's problem

01:01:17 ◼   ► or Microsoft's problem.

01:01:18 ◼   ► Either way, it shouldn't be my problem.

01:01:20 ◼   ► - Yeah, but like, it might not be Windows, though, right?

01:01:23 ◼   ► Like, you are running Windows in a weird way.

01:01:26 ◼   ► - No, Microsoft completely supports

01:01:29 ◼   ► Windows in virtualization, 100%.

01:01:32 ◼   ► And there's still that sort of weirdness, right?

01:01:37 ◼   ► A user should never need to know

01:01:39 ◼   ► if they're running a 32 or 64-bit version of the OS,

01:01:42 ◼   ► or if the individual app they're using is 32 or 64-bit.

01:01:45 ◼   ► - That is weird that it gives you a choice,

01:01:47 ◼   ► that people give you a choice.

01:01:49 ◼   ► It's strange.

01:01:51 ◼   ► - So when I bought my Windows 10 license,

01:01:53 ◼   ► you get to pick which one you download.

01:01:54 ◼   ► It's like no one, like in 2017, 2018,

01:01:58 ◼   ► no one should do this, right?

01:02:01 ◼   ► And so the Mac takes care of all that for you.

01:02:03 ◼   ► The OS has been 64-bit for a long time.

01:02:06 ◼   ► 32-bit apps run basically invisibly.

01:02:10 ◼   ► They just work.

01:02:11 ◼   ► Now that's getting ready to change

01:02:12 ◼   ► because 32-bit apps are gonna go away.

01:02:15 ◼   ► And I think they've set the version after the next one.

01:02:18 ◼   ► But they have some decision-making, right?

01:02:22 ◼   ► If I'm just a normal consumer,

01:02:23 ◼   ► I don't know which one to download, right?

01:02:24 ◼   ► Like, 32, I guess, or 64, and there's--

01:02:27 ◼   ► - I would have to sit and think for just a second, right?

01:02:30 ◼   ► Like, I'd be like, "Mm, am I getting the right?"

01:02:31 ◼   ► Like, I would just have to pause for just a second

01:02:34 ◼   ► and just have to think about that.

01:02:36 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's just, that's not a huge deal, right?

01:02:40 ◼   ► But it's sort of, that's what I'm sort of getting at.

01:02:42 ◼   ► Like, you see all these weird edges and windows

01:02:44 ◼   ► that I don't think most users are prepared for.

01:02:46 ◼   ► - It is like endemic of the overall experience, right?

01:02:49 ◼   ► Like there are these weird things you have to think about,

01:02:53 ◼   ► which come typically from legacy, right?

01:02:57 ◼   ► Which is I think accepted to be their biggest Achilles heel is the support that

01:03:02 ◼   ► they have to give to legacy clients,

01:03:03 ◼   ► like which is why the redesign failed, right? They had a,

01:03:08 ◼   ► they had a really interesting redesign, right? Which was Windows 8.

01:03:11 ◼   ► It failed because nobody wanted to get rid of what they knew. So they had to,

01:03:15 ◼   ► they had to go back.

01:03:16 ◼   ► Yeah. You know, people, um,

01:03:19 ◼   ► you can complain about Apple supporting old stuff too long or not long enough, but on

01:03:25 ◼   ► the Microsoft side of things like that is a real, real big issue. And it's because they

01:03:30 ◼   ► have so many huge, like huge client bases and like the enterprise that, you know, they

01:03:36 ◼   ► wrote an app 10 years ago or 15 years ago, and they still demand that it work just the

01:03:42 ◼   ► way it did. And Microsoft historically has given into that. And I think that slowly,

01:03:49 ◼   ► - It's their business, they have to, they have to do that.

01:03:52 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think they're slowly moving along, right?

01:03:55 ◼   ► Like they're replacing Internet Explorer with Edge

01:03:58 ◼   ► and Edge doesn't do a bunch of the old, weird stuff IE did,

01:04:00 ◼   ► 'cause IE was kind of like its own operating system,

01:04:03 ◼   ► really, at a point, so I think they're slowly changing that.

01:04:07 ◼   ► But I don't know, I found it interesting that,

01:04:09 ◼   ► in my mind, I thought, I'm gonna have to give up

01:04:11 ◼   ► all the tools I use every day.

01:04:13 ◼   ► In reality, I had to give up very few of them,

01:04:15 ◼   ► and I'm sure that if I spend some more time on this,

01:04:17 ◼   ► I can find a mark to editor that really fits the way that I fit, I can find an RSS reader

01:04:21 ◼   ► that I like I can find, you know, the handful of other things that are missing.

01:04:26 ◼   ► Like I could I could recreate my workflows.

01:04:29 ◼   ► For the most part, I think on Windows.

01:04:32 ◼   ► And that honestly was a little surprising to me.

01:04:34 ◼   ► I didn't think that I thought that'd be more of a struggle.

01:04:37 ◼   ► I think that's where the pay for a service and get the apps that that mindset I just

01:04:42 ◼   ► I'm not used to yet.

01:04:43 ◼   ► But it definitely like reinforced to me that like I'd much prefer Mac OS over Windows.

01:04:49 ◼   ► But I don't know.

01:04:51 ◼   ► So like the idea of like, well, I don't like the next MacBook, so I'm gonna buy a Surface

01:04:57 ◼   ► Book, like, that's fine.

01:04:58 ◼   ► You can probably still get your work done.

01:05:00 ◼   ► But it's just not a decision that I want to make.

01:05:06 ◼   ► It's interesting.

01:05:07 ◼   ► It's interesting when you look at the way that services to change a lot of this stuff,

01:05:11 ◼   ► Like you could probably do all of this same stuff

01:05:15 ◼   ► of a Chromebook.

01:05:16 ◼   ► - You could do a lot of it.

01:05:18 ◼   ► - You probably have a very similar experience

01:05:20 ◼   ► of a Chromebook, I would expect.

01:05:22 ◼   ► Like in that list, what could you not do?

01:05:26 ◼   ► - Well, any editing, you know,

01:05:30 ◼   ► production work for the shows.

01:05:31 ◼   ► But the rest of it, like you can do Slack and Chrome,

01:05:34 ◼   ► you can use actually now one password, 10 or X.

01:05:37 ◼   ► I don't know how they're saying it.

01:05:39 ◼   ► Dropbox is there, of course.

01:05:40 ◼   ► So I mean, a Chromebook may be another step down the road,

01:05:44 ◼   ► but you know, it's doable.

01:05:47 ◼   ► I could do all this stuff on an iPad as well,

01:05:49 ◼   ► except, well, I could even do editing on the iPad

01:05:51 ◼   ► if I wanted to really change the tools that I use.

01:05:54 ◼   ► So I think consumers and even like professionals like us,

01:05:59 ◼   ► like we do have options.

01:06:01 ◼   ► And I think it's wise to know,

01:06:06 ◼   ► like every once in a while,

01:06:07 ◼   ► just sort of put your toe in the water and see, you know,

01:06:10 ◼   ► what else is out there?

01:06:11 ◼   ► Are there better ways I could do this?

01:06:12 ◼   ► Do I have an escape route if I need one from this platform?

01:06:15 ◼   ► But I don't think I need an escape route at this point.

01:06:18 ◼   ► Like I don't think the Mac's going anywhere.

01:06:20 ◼   ► I'm not worried about it in like an existential way.

01:06:23 ◼   ► - No.

01:06:24 ◼   ► I don't think people are necessarily like

01:06:27 ◼   ► writ large worried that the Mac is going away.

01:06:31 ◼   ► - I think it's nerd angst on Twitter.

01:06:33 ◼   ► - I think people are more concerned

01:06:35 ◼   ► that the Mac is gonna go ways

01:06:37 ◼   ► that they don't want it to go,

01:06:39 ◼   ► Which is a valid, I mean it's the same concern,

01:06:42 ◼   ► but it's coming from a different kind of thought process

01:06:46 ◼   ► which is important, like that is an important thing

01:06:51 ◼   ► to realize, right, and to think about.

01:06:54 ◼   ► Is your computer focusing on things

01:06:57 ◼   ► that aren't important for you?

01:06:58 ◼   ► And then you might want to switch.

01:07:00 ◼   ► But I don't think we're at risk of it going away.

01:07:04 ◼   ► I don't think that's a thing.

01:07:05 ◼   ► But it's worth noting.

01:07:07 ◼   ► If you don't like Apple's current crop of computers,

01:07:11 ◼   ► then you're kind of out of luck, I guess, right?

01:07:15 ◼   ► Like what are you going to do?

01:07:17 ◼   ► But that's the concern, right?

01:07:19 ◼   ► That's the worry with Apple is that they have,

01:07:23 ◼   ► and this is why people get so frustrated

01:07:25 ◼   ► and upset about this.

01:07:26 ◼   ► Again, I don't know what podcast I heard this on recently,

01:07:29 ◼   ► but I heard it on a podcast that I listened to,

01:07:31 ◼   ► which is like, this is all you have, right?

01:07:34 ◼   ► Like if this is what you like, this is all you have.

01:07:37 ◼   ► - Yeah, Jason's talked about that some,

01:07:39 ◼   ► that Apple has a monopoly on Mac OS.

01:07:44 ◼   ► But I think Ben Thompson is the first person

01:07:46 ◼   ► that saw write that phrase.

01:07:47 ◼   ► But if I want to run Mac OS,

01:07:50 ◼   ► I've gotta use one of their hardware products.

01:07:53 ◼   ► So like I have an iMac and now I have a older MacBook Pro

01:07:57 ◼   ► and that works for me for now.

01:07:58 ◼   ► And we'll see what happens in the future.

01:08:01 ◼   ► But again, like we get going back to trade offs

01:08:04 ◼   ► in this episode.

01:08:05 ◼   ► So there is a theme, Myke, it's not just scattershot.

01:08:07 ◼   ► Trade offs is the theme.

01:08:08 ◼   ► The trade offs for me, I will take a lot of abuse

01:08:12 ◼   ► so I can keep using macOS.

01:08:14 ◼   ► Like, I'll put up with a lot.

01:08:17 ◼   ► And I have chosen to use an older MacBook Pro like Marco

01:08:21 ◼   ► because that trade off is still okay

01:08:24 ◼   ► because the machine is still plenty fast enough

01:08:26 ◼   ► for what I need.

01:08:27 ◼   ► But three years from now it won't be.

01:08:29 ◼   ► And if three years from now, the MacBook Pro still has a kind of cruddy keyboard and touch

01:08:34 ◼   ► bar, then you know, I'll, I'll move back to it because that'll be that'll be a trade off

01:08:40 ◼   ► I'm willing to make so I can keep my workflows on Mac OS intact. Because that's, for me,

01:08:46 ◼   ► the software is, is more important than the hardware in in the way that I work and the

01:08:52 ◼   ► hardware I just needed to be fast and reliable. And, you know, I don't want to, I'm sure I'm

01:08:58 ◼   ► I'm sure like if I if I turned off my Mac and I just use this Windows machine for a week

01:09:02 ◼   ► I'm sure that I would find

01:09:04 ◼   ► over the course of the week more and more little things that I don't even realize I do on the Mac but are just

01:09:09 ◼   ► part of my

01:09:11 ◼   ► like muscle memory or part of like just the workflow that I use every day right and you got to rebuild them on Windows or

01:09:16 ◼   ► find a different way to do them and

01:09:18 ◼   ► all that sort of like

01:09:21 ◼   ► Institutional knowledge I have in my head about the way my Mac's work. I don't want to give up

01:09:25 ◼   ► Yeah, I just think that you and Marco are playing a very risky game

01:09:29 ◼   ► Maybe because we'll be disappointed in a couple years, you know, like the game that you're playing is like

01:09:36 ◼   ► Predicated on the notion that it's gonna get better again though in the way that you want it to oh

01:09:44 ◼   ► Yeah, it may not and that's that's a risk to play

01:09:48 ◼   ► because

01:09:50 ◼   ► It may never change and then what do you do right like you went back you spent

01:09:55 ◼   ► you spent less time trying to get accustomed, right?

01:09:58 ◼   ► Like it's why, I don't know, for as much as I can,

01:10:02 ◼   ► I try and do what, I try and go along with what's happening

01:10:06 ◼   ► because I figure otherwise what are my options?

01:10:10 ◼   ► Like your options end at a certain point.

01:10:14 ◼   ► So yeah, I think the two of you are playing a,

01:10:17 ◼   ► playing a dangerous game right now with your old computers.

01:10:20 ◼   ► - We're playing a little game of chicken with Johnny Ive.

01:10:22 ◼   ► You are and I think you'll I think you may lose but I hope yeah like I promise I was

01:10:29 ◼   ► gonna talk about this I I don't think the 2015 MacBook Pro is gonna rise from the dead

01:10:33 ◼   ► as the 2018 MacBook Pro like that's silly.

01:10:37 ◼   ► I think the last of he wrote in his blog post is just like it's wishful thinking I could

01:10:40 ◼   ► be great and I agreed with his blog post 100% about how Apple could fix the MacBook Pro

01:10:45 ◼   ► but in reality we're gonna get maybe a more allowable keyboard and that's it and that

01:10:51 ◼   ► honestly would be enough for me.

01:10:53 ◼   ► Like I was fine until they tried to charge me

01:10:55 ◼   ► 450 bucks for a broken key.

01:10:57 ◼   ► - Yeah, that was the straw that broke the keyboards back,

01:10:59 ◼   ► I guess, like that was the end of that.

01:11:02 ◼   ► Right, and I agree with you completely on that, right?

01:11:05 ◼   ► Like, my feeling about the keyboard is like, whatever.

01:11:09 ◼   ► I didn't like it but got used to it, right?

01:11:12 ◼   ► Like the way it was.

01:11:12 ◼   ► My initial feeling was I don't like this,

01:11:15 ◼   ► and it's probably just because it was very different,

01:11:17 ◼   ► but after using the MacBook Pro for like the two weeks that I only had that one machine,

01:11:23 ◼   ► I completely forgot that the keyboard was different. Like I completely forgot.

01:11:27 ◼   ► And mine isn't even about the keyboard being different, it's that it's unreliable.

01:11:29 ◼   ► It is the unreliability, which is what I completely agree with you on. Like if this

01:11:33 ◼   ► machine is significantly less reliable, they have to fix that. If they fix that,

01:11:41 ◼   ► then they've done their job and that's kind of all they have to do. The rest of it would just be

01:11:46 ◼   ► like you know people would prefer things to be a certain way. Which I think is fine right?

01:11:52 ◼   ► Like I just spent a big chunk of the episode complaining about the Google home right? Like

01:11:57 ◼   ► it doesn't work the way I want it to work. But that doesn't mean that it's wrong like

01:12:02 ◼   ► they just make decisions that I disagree with. But if they have like okay so like they had

01:12:09 ◼   ► some fatal flaws with this product which I think they've mostly addressed. But like those

01:12:13 ◼   ► things they had to fix them. Like things being broken about it have to be fixed. But if you

01:12:18 ◼   ► don't like a design decision, like that sometimes is as far as it goes. And that's just kind

01:12:24 ◼   ► of why I'm worried for the two of you. Because you're making very bold decisions about your

01:12:30 ◼   ► computers that may end up just biting you in the butt later on.

01:12:35 ◼   ► They may. And I don't want to speak for Marco, but for me at least, there is an element to

01:12:42 ◼   ► this that is understanding that it's a short it's a short-term game right that

01:12:49 ◼   ► like I have all the dongles and adapters and I got used to that and honestly

01:12:54 ◼   ► that's it's kind of a pain but it's not the end of the world but for someone who

01:13:00 ◼   ► uses that machine as a secondary machine I really just want it to be to work

01:13:03 ◼   ► reliably and that's really what did it for me and the other stuff it like you

01:13:07 ◼   ► said is just gravy right like I'd love an SD card slot like Apple please put an SD

01:13:11 ◼   ► card slot on the next MacBook Pro, but they're not going to put a USB port back on it. Like

01:13:15 ◼   ► that's that's just not a thing that's going to happen. They're not going to unless there's

01:13:19 ◼   ► something radically different the chipset, you're not going to see six USB C Thunderbolt

01:13:23 ◼   ► 3 ports on it like the machine is what it is. And it will evolve over time. But I feel

01:13:30 ◼   ► like the direction is going to evolve is further away from my 2015 MacBook Pro, then back toward

01:13:37 ◼   ► But if they make the keyboard like it can still be actually love the way it sounds and I got used to the way it types

01:13:43 ◼   ► But just make it a little more robust

01:13:46 ◼   ► Unlike it is now and then we can talk again. I think I think we'll get that but yeah, it's it's

01:13:53 ◼   ► That's true in all of this stuff, right?

01:13:55 ◼   ► like if it's about one generation of MacBook Pro over the other or if it's a you know, we've been we talked on

01:14:05 ◼   ► connected to an on query actually about

01:14:07 ◼   ► Apple sort of like forcing software updates on people and I got a ton of people like I'm running iOS 10 because

01:14:13 ◼   ► this app that I you know depend on for whatever is

01:14:17 ◼   ► not supported anymore and if I update to 11, it's gonna go away and

01:14:21 ◼   ► There are always people who are caught on the wrong side of a transition or

01:14:28 ◼   ► Caught by transition early, right? Like they're not quite ready to make the move yet and

01:14:34 ◼   ► And what's weird for me is that I'm usually not on that side of things. Right? Like I run beta OS's.

01:14:42 ◼   ► You know, I, I have an iMac. Now that's a 2015. I'm super interested in picking up an iMac Pro

01:14:50 ◼   ► early next year. Like, I like the new and shiny pre ordered an iPhone 10 at two o'clock in the morning.

01:14:56 ◼   ► But for some reason, you know, with this laptop, I'm on the other side. But the same thing goes for

01:15:02 ◼   ► software, right? Like, I we all choose the tools that we that we feel efficient and comfortable

01:15:09 ◼   ► with. And we don't necessarily want to change those radically. And sometimes that's forced

01:15:16 ◼   ► upon us. But at least in like the desktop world, like Mac OS, Sierra to high Sierra,

01:15:25 ◼   ► like not a ton of huge changes, right? And you can sort of move up and your stuff's going

01:15:29 ◼   ► to be fine. And we don't see those big transformations anymore with desktop software. And so when

01:15:35 ◼   ► people look into the future about the Mac, and they don't like what they see, or they

01:15:40 ◼   ► think it's a dead platform, or they think that Apple's ignoring it or whatever, whether

01:15:44 ◼   ► those criticisms are founded in reality or not, or whether they become true or not, I

01:15:50 ◼   ► don't know. But the undercurrent of all of that is, you you sometimes have to make a

01:15:56 ◼   ► decision to to move forward with the tide or to you know move somewhere else

01:16:03 ◼   ► and people fall all across that spectrum and we're seeing it right now with the

01:16:08 ◼   ► MacBook Pro you know we we saw it when Apple moved from OS 9 to OS 10 we saw it

01:16:14 ◼   ► when they moved to Intel if they ever moved to our max we'll see it again you

01:16:19 ◼   ► know there there are always these these points in which people have to decide to

01:16:23 ◼   ► move forward or not. And for me, I am 100% excited and, and willing to keep riding the

01:16:33 ◼   ► Mac OS train as long as it will take me. But you know, we may be in a position like I'm

01:16:39 ◼   ► not I'm not naive, you know, we could be in a situation Michael, we're on the show in

01:16:43 ◼   ► 10 years, you know, I'll be 65 then, but I think I can still do the show. And we're having

01:16:50 ◼   ► this conversation about Mac OS itself, right?

01:16:52 ◼   ► If like, Steve, you're playing a dangerous game,

01:16:54 ◼   ► like you gotta get off this thing, right?

01:16:56 ◼   ► Like the last station is in view, the train is stopping.

01:17:00 ◼   ► But I don't think that's anytime soon.

01:17:03 ◼   ► And so for now, you know,

01:17:05 ◼   ► I'm willing to keep rolling on it.

01:17:08 ◼   ► - I think that this experiment of Windows

01:17:11 ◼   ► is pretty akin to your current situation

01:17:15 ◼   ► with the MacBook Pro.

01:17:18 ◼   ► Like, I think that there's some parallels to it.

01:17:20 ◼   ► like, well, this thing worked for me. We'll see. Right. Like it's kind of,

01:17:24 ◼   ► I feel like it's, it is a very similar thread there. Um, but I'm pleased,

01:17:28 ◼   ► I'm pleased that you undertook this experiment. It's interesting.

01:17:31 ◼   ► Yeah. I mean, I think if we're going to talk about it,

01:17:34 ◼   ► like you and I both own Android phones, you bought the Google home,

01:17:37 ◼   ► like we don't have to switch to things, but I think at the very least, like it's,

01:17:41 ◼   ► it's prudent to at least be familiar with it. Right.

01:17:45 ◼   ► So if that's all that comes out of this is like, Hey, you know what?

01:17:48 ◼   ► I spent some time with Windows 10, I know it a little bit,

01:17:50 ◼   ► I installed a bunch of stuff and used it,

01:17:52 ◼   ► then I can speak more intelligently about it

01:17:55 ◼   ► and it informs my opinions in a way that it wouldn't otherwise

01:17:58 ◼   ► and so for that alone, I think experimentation as a nerd,

01:18:01 ◼   ► especially as someone who like talks about this stuff,

01:18:03 ◼   ► is really valuable.

01:18:04 ◼   ► - If you wanna find out more about this today,

01:18:07 ◼   ► go to relay.fm/connectly/170.

01:18:10 ◼   ► Steven is at 512pixels.net, he is @ismh on Twitter.

01:18:14 ◼   ► I am @imike, I-M-Y-K-E, and our fallen comrade

01:18:17 ◼   ► is @Vittucci, V-I-T-I-C-C-I,

01:18:20 ◼   ► he's at maxstories.net,

01:18:22 ◼   ► and hopefully he'll be back next week.

01:18:24 ◼   ► Thanks so much to our sponsors this week,

01:18:26 ◼   ► the fine folk at Pingdom, Ting, and Encapsula.

01:18:29 ◼   ► We'll be back next time.

01:18:31 ◼   ► Until then, say goodbye, Steven.