165: Super Easy To Do a Top Case


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:06   From Relay FM, this is Connected, episode 165. Today's show is brought to you by

00:00:11   PDF Pan, Pingdom and Ting. My name is Myke Hurley.

00:00:15   I'm back in London and I'm joined by Federico Vittucci from Italy. Hello, Federico.

00:00:20   Hello, Myke from Italy. Hi.

00:00:23   And from Tennessee, Mrs. Steven Hackett.

00:00:25   I don't get a country, just a state?

00:00:28   I changed it up for everybody.

00:00:30   I went for London, so I went for my city, and then Federico got his country, and then

00:00:34   you got the state.

00:00:35   That was a method to my madness.

00:00:37   It's good.

00:00:39   It's a little sad not being together.

00:00:42   But it also feels like we're back in the groove of things.

00:00:46   We were talking earlier, the iOS 11 review is done, Federico's giving his talk, he's

00:00:50   back at work.

00:00:51   It's just like, I feel like we're kind of back in our respective places, and it feels

00:00:56   good.

00:00:57   It's good to be back.

00:00:58   But last week was maybe the best episode of all time.

00:01:02   Yeah, I'm a little surprised that we kept the show going after that.

00:01:05   I thought we would just end it.

00:01:07   We could just reboot it again.

00:01:08   What should we call it next time?

00:01:10   No, do not rename the show again.

00:01:12   From prompt, connected, and I don't know, the three guy podcast?

00:01:19   Something super generic.

00:01:20   Yeah, no, that's really good.

00:01:22   That's it.

00:01:23   That's what we're looking for.

00:01:24   Steven, how was your MacBook Pro?

00:01:25   - What if it was like tech podcast?

00:01:28   - Yeah, that's good.

00:01:28   - What if the name was like tech podcast

00:01:29   but with an adjective in front?

00:01:31   That'd be a stupid thing to name a show.

00:01:33   Anyways, I'm just kidding, ATP, we love you.

00:01:39   So you asked about my MacBook Pro.

00:01:41   If you listened to the show or if you were there,

00:01:44   you have been following along my tale of woe.

00:01:47   When we were in Chicago,

00:01:48   Casey Johnson wrote this amazing piece on the outline.

00:01:51   I sent it to Instapaper because the outline's web design

00:01:54   makes my head hurt, but basically chronicling her

00:01:59   storied history with this keyboard,

00:02:01   and that finally prompted me to write about mine

00:02:05   and some of the people as well.

00:02:07   So mine, I have a repair set up.

00:02:11   I'm waiting for the part to come in.

00:02:12   I didn't want to send it to the repair center.

00:02:14   I'm gonna have them do it in the store.

00:02:16   So I will follow up when it's done,

00:02:17   but for right now it's here on my desk.

00:02:20   The i-key's still broken, but there's progress being made.

00:02:23   we're moving in the right direction.

00:02:24   - You told me earlier about the fact

00:02:26   that you were waiting for a part to come in,

00:02:28   and I just have this image in my mind

00:02:30   of just one iKey in a little plastic bag

00:02:33   being sent from somewhere to Memphis.

00:02:35   - No, it unfortunately is getting a whole top case,

00:02:39   which we'll get into that once I get it done.

00:02:43   - Which is good, right?

00:02:44   I mean, having the entire part replaced,

00:02:47   I think it's good news, right?

00:02:49   - Yeah, oh yeah.

00:02:51   I mean, I kind of get to hit the reset button again

00:02:53   and they get another nine months.

00:02:55   - But it seems like a lot of parts for one broken key, right?

00:03:00   Like it feels like a lot.

00:03:02   Oh, we're just gonna, oh, you broke a key?

00:03:04   We're gonna have to replace your entire laptop now.

00:03:06   - Yeah. - So sorry.

00:03:08   - So settle in children, I'm gonna tell you a story.

00:03:12   - Oh boy.

00:03:13   - Before Apple went to the unibody construction

00:03:16   they'd been using for a long time,

00:03:17   it used to be really simple.

00:03:18   Like the top case was separate from the bottom case

00:03:20   and if something really bad happened,

00:03:23   so undo the screws, put a top case on,

00:03:25   like the MacBook, the white and black plastic MacBook,

00:03:28   super easy to do a top case, it's like 13 screws.

00:03:31   But with the unibody construction,

00:03:32   everything is built in to the unibody

00:03:35   and then the bottom cover is like a thin sheet,

00:03:37   like where the feet and stuff are,

00:03:39   that's just a thin cover.

00:03:40   Everything else is kinda built upside down

00:03:43   into the top case.

00:03:43   So the keyboard is actually part of the top case,

00:03:48   they aren't separate parts,

00:03:49   And so they basically will put my laptop face down

00:03:53   on the bench and have a new top case

00:03:54   and basically scoop out all the guts of my laptop

00:03:57   and pour them in to the new top case.

00:03:59   It's like having a skin transplant.

00:04:02   All your insides are the same, but you're in a new shell.

00:04:07   - Is that a thing?

00:04:07   - If you've been watching a medical show,

00:04:09   where is these, what's going on with you today?

00:04:12   - It's just the analogy that popped into my, I don't know.

00:04:16   Do you have a better analogy?

00:04:17   - Is a skin transplant even possible?

00:04:19   don't think like we can get a skin graft right isn't that where they take skin from like your

00:04:23   butt and put it on your arm or something yes well really they do that yeah yeah like if you've if

00:04:29   you've had like fire damage like if you've been really badly burnt or you've had like a bad

00:04:33   accident you can take skin from like one part of the body and put it onto another part of the body

00:04:38   what i'm talking about though is like a full outer replacement i feel like medically that's probably

00:04:43   not super possible but you know.

00:04:45   - Yeah, that's pretty amazing though.

00:04:47   So yeah, jumping from skin to your MacBook.

00:04:53   (laughing)

00:04:55   So yeah, that feels like a super counterintuitive

00:05:00   way to fix a computer.

00:05:03   Like imagine if your car broke,

00:05:05   like a single tire broke and you had to leave your,

00:05:08   like to change the entire structure of the car.

00:05:11   - They have to remove the chassis, oh.

00:05:13   You popped a tire?

00:05:14   No, sir, I'm sorry, a tire broke?

00:05:18   Oh well, we gotta send the car back.

00:05:21   We gotta start over, I'm afraid.

00:05:23   I mean, I get it, these unibody constructions are beautiful

00:05:29   and possibly they can withstand more damage

00:05:33   than the old way of making computers.

00:05:35   Unless they're damages to a key.

00:05:36   Can't do that.

00:05:38   Having to change entire keys for a single key,

00:05:41   I mean it was probably easier on my MacBook Air, or maybe not.

00:05:45   I don't know.

00:05:46   - No, it's unibody. - But still.

00:05:47   So yeah, hmm, I'm sorry.

00:05:49   - Yeah, and it's because on mine,

00:05:52   the damage is to the mounting points

00:05:55   where the key attaches.

00:05:56   So if the key itself, the key cap was broken,

00:05:59   that's super easy.

00:06:00   But the thing attaches to the top case

00:06:03   with like six little pins,

00:06:05   and one, I think two of those on mine are damaged.

00:06:07   And so that's the issue.

00:06:09   no way to get in there without opening it up and if you open it up you break the whole

00:06:13   thing.

00:06:14   You haven't really got a choice.

00:06:17   Yeah it's not ideal.

00:06:20   There's more to the story but I will save that for a future follow up.

00:06:23   But yeah it is underway.

00:06:26   What a saga.

00:06:27   Not over yet.

00:06:28   I will check in when it's actually fixed.

00:06:33   Google has been doing some stuff with their iOS apps but it's not the sort of stuff that

00:06:37   we want.

00:06:38   So the Google Search app, which I forget exists, is where the Assistant is, right?

00:06:46   The Google Assistant is in that app?

00:06:48   No, I think they actually have a Google Assistant.

00:06:53   The Google app is like when you get the Google homepage, of course, and you get this custom

00:06:57   view to navigate Google search results, which is actually very nice.

00:07:01   And you also get what used to be called Google Now, and it's now called something Google

00:07:06   Assistant.

00:07:07   I don't know.

00:07:08   like suggestions based on your web activity and Gmail messages. Like for

00:07:13   example I get shipment notifications from my Amazon purchases which is really

00:07:18   useful because it tends to be really accurate and it works really well.

00:07:22   You can prep the baker, this stuff is coming.

00:07:23   Oh that's another, that's another, come on don't bring it up again. What if the

00:07:28   guy listens to Connected and now he connects the dots and and well yeah I

00:07:34   I guess so just yeah you spilled those beans not me so that app has drag-and-drop

00:07:41   Google Chrome which no one uses who'd be silly enough to use that on iOS has

00:07:48   drag-and-drop but the Google Docs app does not this is one of those things

00:07:54   where I have a little bit more hope than I did before for Google Docs they're

00:08:00   - Because this is the method of kind of the way

00:08:04   that Google updates.

00:08:06   They start with like the less essential apps,

00:08:10   then they move on to Chrome.

00:08:12   Then eventually they get to Google Docs, right?

00:08:14   Like this is how it happened with split view.

00:08:16   Like they kind of slowly moved this stuff out

00:08:18   because I mean, we spoke about this,

00:08:19   this is why I called this a few weeks ago,

00:08:20   we spoke about it a bunch of times in the past.

00:08:22   Google Docs seems like it is an incredibly complex

00:08:25   application and like any change they have to make

00:08:28   seems like it is really difficult to do because it's running so much custom stuff.

00:08:33   But the Chrome implementation works really well.

00:08:37   It does what I would expect it to.

00:08:38   I can drag URLs.

00:08:39   I mean, you could already do like the dragging of URLs, like in

00:08:43   and out of the app and in the app.

00:08:44   But you kind of had to like have the text cursor in the in the bar

00:08:48   before you could drop the URL.

00:08:50   But now it just pops up with a little plus button and you can just drop it in.

00:08:53   Or you can put it into the tab area and it just opens a new tab.

00:08:56   So that's all working exactly as I would have hoped.

00:08:58   Yeah, I wanted to ask you, Myke, because I know you,

00:09:03   you I've seen you use Google Chrome on your iPads and iPhone.

00:09:07   Can you do with drag and drop the thing where you select

00:09:11   you select some text on a Web page and when you drag it out,

00:09:15   say into bear or into Apple notes,

00:09:17   it keeps the formatting of the selection?

00:09:20   Surprisingly, yes, it does.

00:09:22   I tested this today.

00:09:24   So like I dragged a block of text from the relay FM website.

00:09:28   So it had bold for the headings and it had a bunch of links, right?

00:09:32   Some are in line, some are, you know, just some extra just like URLs or whatever.

00:09:36   And it did it perfectly.

00:09:38   So I was able to just to drag it into I dragged it into one of the shelf apps.

00:09:43   I dragged it into workshop and then dragged it into notes just so I figured,

00:09:47   you know, let's put it through a couple of different apps, see what happens.

00:09:50   And I dropped it into notes and all the links were in line

00:09:53   and the headings were bolded and everything.

00:09:54   So it's very nice for my opinion, like from the usage that I've had so far,

00:09:59   it seems to work just as good as Safari.

00:10:01   So they've done a good job.

00:10:02   Yeah. Yeah, because I mean, of course, Google Chrome and iOS

00:10:05   needs to use the same rendering engine as Safari.

00:10:09   So they're using, I guess, some variation of WKWebView,

00:10:14   the API that, you know, a bunch of other iOS apps use,

00:10:17   including stuff like editorial, for example.

00:10:20   But I wanted to double check that they were not doing some custom hacks to prevent that kind of drag and drop

00:10:25   No.

00:10:26   feature. So that's nice. That's very nice.

00:10:28   Yeah, I'm happy with it. Like I'm gonna use that a bunch.

00:10:30   I hadn't really tried it because it wasn't really something that I thought about like just because I'm used to stuff like that not working on iOS.

00:10:36   Like, you know, I found a thing really just like really

00:10:39   annoying in my mind that I can take that text copy it paste it and it loses the formatting.

00:10:44   But if I drag and drop it keeps the formatting. Like why? Why?

00:10:49   Guess guess guess which framework was really thought through and took a few years of development

00:10:55   Which one right?

00:10:56   Has been untouched since like iOS 4. It's it's mind-boggling

00:11:00   Because I still thought that none of this stuff was working until I thought oh, let me drag and drop it. Oh, it works perfectly

00:11:06   Yeah, yeah, that's fine

00:11:10   Federica you've been on a little bit of a crusade so you put this tweet up

00:11:15   I guess yesterday, you're running a Twitter poll of the worst iOS app experience.

00:11:19   Yes.

00:11:20   And what prompted this and how's it going?

00:11:24   Well, what prompted this is that each one of these four apps, whenever I open, whether

00:11:31   it's, so the four apps are Slack, Google Docs, Dropbox, and Twitter for iPad.

00:11:36   And whenever I open one of these, something goes wrong or I'm so upset that it's so bad,

00:11:42   either the design is bad or the features are bad or the performance is terrible.

00:11:47   And so in my mind these are the four horsemen of the worst on iOS. Whenever you see these

00:11:55   apps approaching bad things are gonna happen. And I wanted to double check with followers on Twitter

00:12:01   like what do you think is the worst among these really bad apps. And so right now we are two days

00:12:09   left and 1700 something.

00:12:12   Can I just clarify something super quick about the phrasing of this, like really bad apps?

00:12:17   Yeah, I don't think they're really bad apps.

00:12:20   They're just apps that are not great at using conventional

00:12:25   iOS things or new APIs and new frameworks.

00:12:28   And there is there is something that links all of these applications together

00:12:32   and it's cross platform, like big cross platform apps.

00:12:36   And I think that tends to be the problem.

00:12:38   Like they're even doing custom stuff so it works everywhere.

00:12:40   Are they using a bunch of WebViews so it'll work everywhere

00:12:42   and they're like trying to make the experience consistent.

00:12:46   So I just want to say, I don't think that these apps are like inherently bad.

00:12:50   Right. Because I've used a bunch of really bad apps.

00:12:53   They are just apps that are not good at staying up to date.

00:12:57   Is that maybe a fair way to to to describe them?

00:13:01   Do you think Federico?

00:13:02   Well, for you, for me, you're just bad.

00:13:05   Yeah. For me, anything that doesn't take advantage of the native stuff is just bad.

00:13:11   And there's varying levels of bad that I can tolerate in my life, but these are really bad.

00:13:16   That's how my scale goes. And the worst part is that I need to use these apps, because there's no,

00:13:24   either they have no open API or there's no alternative or the alternatives that exists,

00:13:29   like Tweetbot, for example, they don't have full access to the native service functionalities,

00:13:35   like Twitter polls for example, which I needed to create in the Twitter for iPad app.

00:13:39   Anyway, right now we are at 1700 votes, more or less, and Google Docs is not surprisingly winning

00:13:49   the race so far with 37% of votes. Trailing behind Google Docs is Twitter for iPad with 30%

00:13:57   and this is the real intriguing part to me that I want to see how it ends,

00:14:02   But Dropbox is third with 16% and actually Slack is third with 17% and Dropbox is last with 16%.

00:14:12   So only 1% dividing Slack, which in my opinion is an incredibly bad iOS application from Dropbox,

00:14:21   which used to be a kind of decent app but has been getting so bad for me.

00:14:28   not just in the sense of this is not a case of bad performance from Dropbox,

00:14:32   but just bad design and bad priorities.

00:14:34   Yeah, I would argue that like the Dropbox app is mostly good,

00:14:38   but they are making bad decisions, right?

00:14:41   Like they integrate with the system.

00:14:43   They seem to do a lot of that stuff, but their badness right now

00:14:47   is coming from their horrible redesign stuff,

00:14:50   because this is leaking into the app in weird and stupid ways.

00:14:54   Like these images, these like hand drawn scribbly images

00:14:57   that keep popping up all over the place?

00:14:59   - That doesn't make it, I mean, that's a poor design choice,

00:15:02   but that doesn't make it a bad app.

00:15:04   - That's a, my point is that that is a stylistic change,

00:15:08   whatever, but it seems to me like that focus

00:15:12   on doing this fancy redesign

00:15:15   and letting your creative energy flow

00:15:17   is working against increasing the functionality of the app.

00:15:23   For example, the other day I was listening

00:15:25   this audio file and I noticed that the title of the file was truncated in the

00:15:33   title bar and there were no other controls, no artwork, but just this

00:15:38   illustration in the middle. And you could say "well it used to be that way before

00:15:42   too, you used to have a different illustration so it's not like Dropbox

00:15:46   changed anything". My point being, if you took the time to redesign the screen, why

00:15:51   Why not increase the options? Why not make the experience, the practical experience better?

00:15:58   Instead, you just prioritized having these fancy illustrations coming to the app and replace whatever was in place before.

00:16:05   But you took the time to change the screen, so why not make it better instead of just look different?

00:16:12   Because, I mean, someone had to code the image to go in there, so you clearly have people working on the app and making changes,

00:16:19   but you're making bad changes, you're making the wrong changes, in my opinion.

00:16:23   So this is the Twitter poll we're running, two days left.

00:16:27   I think Google Docs is gonna win, if only because there's so much baggage when it comes to Google Docs.

00:16:34   It seems like it's the clear winner.

00:16:36   But I wanna see what happens in the, you know, maybe Twitter for iPad,

00:16:41   I mean, also like an excellent example of really not understanding the platform that it runs on

00:16:48   and doesn't take advantage of the big iPad screen in any meaningful way.

00:16:53   But I want to see between Slack and Dropbox what happens, because Slack is also...

00:16:57   I was expecting honestly Slack to be in second place.

00:17:00   So we'll see.

00:17:04   This is a good experiment, I think.

00:17:07   My vote went for Dropbox, but...

00:17:09   My vote went for Google Docs, I should say, by the way.

00:17:11   I voted Google Docs.

00:17:13   Can I vote for?

00:17:14   It seems like I cannot vote for...

00:17:16   You can just say, what do you think is the worst?

00:17:18   Personally, I want to say Slack.

00:17:22   Oh, interesting.

00:17:23   Yeah.

00:17:24   Why?

00:17:25   So, so many glitches and bugs all day long on every single release.

00:17:32   They say they fixed something, but it never is fully true.

00:17:37   And I know the software is never really perfect, but this is an especially bad case of ever

00:17:43   growing bugs around the app.

00:17:45   Like yesterday for example, I discovered that if I open Slack and I hit the text field and

00:17:54   then I start typing right away with my keyboard connected with a smart connector, it skips

00:17:59   characters.

00:18:00   So I need to open Slack, wait a few seconds, hit the text field and then start typing.

00:18:06   So if you do that really quickly, like the entire app sort of slows down and it doesn't

00:18:12   accept text or you know missing notifications or getting a black screen

00:18:17   when you open the app from a notification and having to force quit

00:18:20   so many things going wrong with slack and I'm also a paying subscriber because

00:18:24   I love slack the service but it's a really bad iOS app.

00:18:27   Yeah like the underlying service and what it enables is really good but I

00:18:32   mostly agree that like my biggest problem with slack is emoji. I cannot

00:18:37   fathom why they are so bad at adding new emoji. We have a whole new set of emoji

00:18:45   coming out in like a few weeks time. They have not added into the app support for

00:18:49   the previous set and they are like so much of their brand is focused around it

00:18:55   like so like you don't get these emojis in the emoji picker or in there like

00:18:59   text selection stuff you have to add them in then when you do they stay

00:19:01   really small they don't get bigger like other like your brand is emoji we use it

00:19:05   Everywhere. Like how... It's maddening to me.

00:19:08   Imagine if there was a standard that controlled how text is shared between devices and platforms.

00:19:17   So you could call it something like single code or unique code.

00:19:21   Or universal code.

00:19:22   Or universal code. You know, that would be an interesting name. Universal code.

00:19:27   It's a little long. Maybe shorten it somehow.

00:19:29   Maybe it could be shorter. I'm not sure how, but it could be shorter.

00:19:32   What about code-versal?

00:19:33   - Code-versal.

00:19:34   - Maybe universal code.

00:19:36   - Mm, yeah, that's good. - That could be an idea.

00:19:37   - That's good, that's good.

00:19:38   - Yeah, okay, let's go with that, all right.

00:19:40   - Steven, which one do you think?

00:19:42   - I've voted for Google Docs.

00:19:43   I think for the same reasons we've talked about,

00:19:47   but also my favorite is that if you open an app

00:19:52   or open a document, sometimes it takes like

00:19:55   five or six seconds for it to start syncing the changes

00:19:58   to the docs, you open it and you freak out

00:20:00   that none of your changes are there,

00:20:01   and then you just wait and wait,

00:20:03   then it pulls them in, the performance on it is really hit or miss.

00:20:07   What I think you're actually thinking, you open the dock and you're like, "Oh my god,

00:20:11   none of my co-hosts have done any work." And you're just sitting there thinking, "They

00:20:14   are none of them by any notes."

00:20:15   Oh my god, yes, yes, they're so mad.

00:20:18   It's not that like, "Oh, I open it and my changes aren't there." You open it and think,

00:20:23   "Those lazy bums haven't done any work." That's what's actually going on.

00:20:26   Yeah.

00:20:27   I know how you think.

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00:22:07   have everything that you need to break the cycle of scanning, printing, faxing, signing

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00:22:23   them know that you came to them from this show. So go to smilesoftware.com/podcast and

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00:22:31   Thank you so much to PDF-Pen from Smile for their support of this show.

00:22:36   So Federico, as well as having a poll for our listeners, you also have a quiz that you

00:22:44   would like people to...

00:22:45   The way you say, you make it sound like I have a poll in my house.

00:22:50   You have like a, it's a Festivus poll that you keep at home, that people can come and

00:22:57   see and celebrate. No, you have a game, a quiz, I don't really know how you would describe

00:23:02   this.

00:23:03   A game, a quiz.

00:23:04   Something like this. What have you got? You sent me and Steven an image. The image will

00:23:07   be in the show notes. And you said, I want you and our listeners to guess what I'm using

00:23:12   this for. And what it is, it is a box with an Nvidia Shield Pro 4K HDR media server.

00:23:20   Yes, it's an Android TV device.

00:23:24   Oh, is that what it is?

00:23:27   Yeah, it's an Nvidia Shield Pro, it runs Android TV.

00:23:32   And it's one of my latest purchases from Amazon, besides the Amiibo.

00:23:38   And I would like you both and our listeners throughout the week to try to guess why,

00:23:45   because I realized that this might be an unusual device for me. I mean it runs on

00:23:49   Android TV, Nvidia Shield, I never talked about this before. So why do you

00:23:55   think I bought this? I think it is because it is a Plex Media Server.

00:24:05   It can do that. It is a device with an inbuilt Plex Media Server. So I think you

00:24:11   have bought a device which has 4k HDR so when you get a 4k HDR TV because I don't

00:24:17   think you have one yet you can use that but you can also host all of your Plex

00:24:21   videos on there so you can watch them on the TV and then also when you're on the

00:24:25   go and it's all in one thing rather than needing to do it all on a Synology.

00:24:29   Well I already have a Plex server on the Synology. Yeah but you always move stuff around

00:24:33   Federico this is something that you do you have a thing and you set it up and

00:24:37   then you're like oh I could optimize this and then you move on to another

00:24:40   thing and you do the same thing you were doing before but on something else. Yeah I don't

00:24:43   know who would do that. So I think you don't want to host it on the Synology anymore and

00:24:46   you want to do it all on the Nvidia Shield instead.

00:24:51   What do you think Steven? Honestly Plex was my... what are my choices? The other is maybe

00:25:00   some sort of like political statement about TVOS and gaming. Political statement? Okay.

00:25:07   So yeah I don't really know. I don't know much about the Nvidia Shield so I'm gonna

00:25:09   defer to Myke and say it's it's Plex slash you being bored with your setup

00:25:15   and changing things. So Federico how can people send in their guesses? Send

00:25:21   an email to Myke. Just want you to know if you send an email to me with

00:25:27   your guess I will archive the email I don't want that.

00:25:30   Twitter is way better for this as a system we can over select an account

00:25:35   for it to tweet to or we could use a hashtag. There are many better ways.

00:25:40   So okay tweet to _ConnectedFM and use the hashtag #teacheeshield. That's what you need to use.

00:25:46   Okay, #teacheeshield.

00:25:48   And we'll follow up next week.

00:25:50   We'll put all of this in the show notes,

00:25:53   including like where you should send a tweet to and everything.

00:25:55   Yes, yes, perfect. All right, this will be fun. And if you want to issue your official guests,

00:26:05   You need to... this is the entire point of the game. It's a very specific reason why I'm doing this, so I want you to try to guess the specific motivation behind my decision to use this device.

00:26:16   So I'm assuming that me and Steven have not gone specific enough yet, so I'm gonna spend some time thinking on that.

00:26:23   Okay, so it needs to be... there's really one single specific reason.

00:26:28   Oh, okay.

00:26:29   And that is the reason why I bought this specific device.

00:26:33   So, yeah, try to guess that and we'll follow up next week.

00:26:41   Okay, I'm going to spend some more time thinking about this. If I have any better ideas, I'll

00:26:47   send mine with that hashtag too. Yeah, I can see now that I'm going too broad now you said

00:26:53   that. Very specific. Okay.

00:26:56   Yeah.

00:26:57   Okay.

00:26:58   You're thinking about this now.

00:27:00   I'm going now.

00:27:01   - I'm gonna be now.

00:27:02   (laughing)

00:27:03   - I'm gonna be, you know that the meme of Charlie

00:27:06   from Always Sunny in Philadelphia with like the papers

00:27:08   on the wall and the registering,

00:27:09   that's gonna be me now for the rest of the week.

00:27:11   - I can tell you that you can easily guess

00:27:16   if you go back either in the connected episodes

00:27:22   where we discussed my whole media server setup

00:27:26   and where you also maybe on Mac stories weekly,

00:27:30   But if you take a look at the products and devices that I mentioned, I think it's easy to guess why.

00:27:37   And it's easy to guess the reason why.

00:27:40   Okay, well we'll see if anyone gets it.

00:27:43   We'll see, I'm not sure.

00:27:45   Zeferi, you're not the only person who bought something with an unclear reason.

00:27:49   Okay, alright.

00:27:51   So the bridge keyboard, which is important...

00:27:54   No! Why?

00:27:57   talked a lot about on relay shows. There are a couple links to upgrade episodes where

00:28:01   Jason and Myke, you tried one too, didn't you? So what happened is Jason bought this keyboard,

00:28:08   he had problems with it, they sent him a new one, then he professed it to be the best keyboard

00:28:13   that he's ever used for his iPad. So I bought one and went through two units that didn't work,

00:28:20   which is this is a, and we found out after doing this and getting feedback from listeners,

00:28:25   This is a very normal thing for Bridge.

00:28:28   It tends to be that their products, most of the time,

00:28:31   do not work properly.

00:28:34   - So that's with the 12.9.

00:28:36   They announced a while back that there was going to be

00:28:39   a 10.5 inch version, that's the iPad that I have,

00:28:42   and you know, I take Jason's recommendation seriously.

00:28:46   I said, "Hey, you know what?

00:28:46   "I should check this out, he likes it.

00:28:48   "We have similar taste in what we like."

00:28:51   And so I ordered one and it came in earlier this week

00:28:56   and I have some early thoughts.

00:28:59   So there'll be a link in the show notes

00:29:01   to go look at this keyboard,

00:29:02   but basically when your iPad is sitting in it,

00:29:05   it looks like a MacBook.

00:29:06   It is gray with black keys.

00:29:10   It has a function row with keys on it.

00:29:14   And I think the idea is it's supposed to feel

00:29:16   like you're typing on not the 2016 garbage keyboard,

00:29:19   but the good one before it.

00:29:20   - The 10.5 unfortunately inherited some of the flaws

00:29:25   of its bigger sibling.

00:29:29   So I have not had the Bluetooth dropping,

00:29:34   keystroke missing problems that other people have had,

00:29:37   but I've had some other issues.

00:29:41   My favorite is that some of the keys squeak

00:29:47   when you depress them.

00:29:48   (laughing)

00:29:49   - Oh God.

00:29:50   (laughing)

00:29:52   So the D key is by far the worst.

00:29:55   And if you look at it head on,

00:29:57   the D key is not centered in the little channel

00:30:00   that it depresses into.

00:30:02   - You need to replace the top case.

00:30:04   - I know, I need to do top case.

00:30:05   It rubs on the right side and it goes,

00:30:07   I should have, it's inside,

00:30:09   I should have brought it out to the office

00:30:10   so you could hear it.

00:30:11   It was like eek, eek, eek every time you hit the D key.

00:30:14   A couple other keys do it, the D key is by far the worst.

00:30:18   It's like this keyboard is crying as you're typing on it.

00:30:22   I am too.

00:30:23   It's hard to tell who's crying harder.

00:30:25   Are you sure it's not you making the sound?

00:30:28   This thing's like $160.

00:30:31   Oh, jeez.

00:30:32   The keys-- so squeaking aside, we can just

00:30:36   put that aside for a second, which is a deal breaker

00:30:39   in and of itself.

00:30:39   If that was the only problem, I would still be returning it.

00:30:42   But I don't like the key feel.

00:30:44   They feel small in a way that I don't

00:30:48   if they need to, I think they could be closer together.

00:30:50   The way this thing works, so it's Bluetooth,

00:30:53   it doesn't use the smart connector,

00:30:55   and the way the iPad connects to the keyboard

00:30:58   is the keyboard has these little hinges that flip up,

00:31:01   and you sort of slide the iPad into them.

00:31:03   And Jason showed me the trick,

00:31:06   like these hinges are very snug.

00:31:08   I felt like I was sort of squishing my iPad

00:31:10   to get it in there.

00:31:11   And they're coated with, there's a little rubber piece,

00:31:13   so it's a metal hinge and a little rubber liner.

00:31:17   And on the left hinge, when I put the iPad in,

00:31:20   the rubber comes off and slides down with the iPad.

00:31:24   And so you have this like, metal square hinge,

00:31:28   like millimeters from the glass on the front of the iPad.

00:31:31   Which is not what you want.

00:31:33   So the key squeak, I feel like it's gonna just destroy

00:31:38   the front of my iPad if I'm not super careful with it.

00:31:41   But the real kicker, I've saved the best one,

00:31:45   is the iPad sits too far down in the hinges

00:31:49   and you can't activate multitasking

00:31:51   with the swipe up from the bottom.

00:31:54   Because you can't reach the bottom of the screen.

00:31:57   So with the older, like with the 9.7 or 12.9,

00:32:02   those side bezels are still bigger and they work,

00:32:05   but they didn't take this into account

00:32:07   when designing the 10.5,

00:32:08   they didn't make the hinges shallow enough.

00:32:10   And like, even like wedging your finger

00:32:12   in between the iPad and the keyboard,

00:32:14   You cannot reach the bottom far enough to activate the dock,

00:32:18   which I don't know if you guys are aware of this,

00:32:20   but iOS 11 has a new multitasking system.

00:32:22   Have you guys seen this? - Oh, really?

00:32:24   - It's incredible. - Oh, man.

00:32:25   I should read some reviews of that.

00:32:27   - Yeah, I'm sure there's a walkthrough somewhere

00:32:29   you could read, but you can't activate it

00:32:31   without the keyboard.

00:32:32   It's okay, you can't reach the bottom of it.

00:32:34   So I spent a day and a half with it.

00:32:38   I emailed them today before starting the show.

00:32:39   I was like, please just send me a label.

00:32:41   I need my money back.

00:32:42   this is. So I want to just before we get follow up right probably there's one

00:32:47   thing there's one thing I know and there's one thing that I kind of know

00:32:50   the one thing that I know is that there is a keyboard shortcut for activating the

00:32:54   dock yes so you can do that I'm also assuming that if you they have a home

00:32:59   button right key I'm assuming that if you double tap that it will probably go

00:33:03   into multitasking mode although you can double tap the the home button but it's

00:33:09   not the point right it's just like this is this is this isn't you not knowing

00:33:13   the device that you're building and I understand that when they built this

00:33:16   right because they show it like their website they all of the product images

00:33:20   are iOS 10 so I get that they didn't know this. But we knew about we knew about the

00:33:26   10.5 inch iPad minutes away from knowing about iOS 11 it's like they

00:33:31   stopped watching the keynote they're like oh I guess that's all there is we

00:33:33   should get started on this and like turn the stream off I just didn't notice. It's like

00:33:37   right we got all the information we need but the point is though irrespective of

00:33:40   all of that right like if you can't activate it it means that it's gone too

00:33:45   it's too far down anyway like whether the dock is there or not like it's too

00:33:49   far down right here you can't bring the dock up at all you can't reach the

00:33:52   bottom edge so yeah they failed surprise surprise surprise surprise bridge fail

00:33:58   what to like it I really do I I it was perfect right it is not a case it's just

00:34:06   a keyboard, right, so it doesn't add 17 pounds, and it has an infinitely adjustable hinge

00:34:13   and a great keyboard. It was exactly what I was looking for with mine. I mean, it's

00:34:18   Bluetooth which isn't ideal, but the battery lasts a really long time.

00:34:21   It's backlit which is awesome.

00:34:22   Yep, but they just fail in so many peculiar ways.

00:34:27   I didn't even mention, so I ordered it when we were in Chicago. I got an email the next

00:34:32   day from them. Like, hey, your orders been dispatched. And then I got a second email

00:34:36   from them that day saying, Oh, by the way, some of our early units, the left hinge isn't

00:34:44   mounted like center on its post, and you can't put the iPad in it and you need to like, let

00:34:49   us know and we'll send you a new one like shipping from the factory, the left hand of

00:34:53   some of these is broken already. Mine did not display that issue is like the first thing

00:34:57   I checked out of the box. So I guess mine is late enough in the run where they caught

00:35:00   but it's like not, that's not what you want to see.

00:35:03   Like you spend a bunch of money on something

00:35:05   and then they seem to email me like,

00:35:07   oh, it may be broken, like just let us know.

00:35:12   You know, we may have messed this up.

00:35:13   So it's going back and their customer support's

00:35:17   been really great, but.

00:35:19   - Yeah, they do have good customer support, right?

00:35:21   We've all returned keyboards to them now.

00:35:24   - They should really pivot as a delivery company

00:35:27   because they're really good at shipping and returning items

00:35:30   and taking care of shipments.

00:35:32   So that's something they got going for them.

00:35:34   - Brutal, brutal.

00:35:36   - But I mean, I'm just sad

00:35:39   because this is also my ideal keyboard.

00:35:42   It looks great.

00:35:43   It's got the, you know, you can adjust the hinge,

00:35:45   whatever you want, but it's also kind of not a keyboard

00:35:49   because it really doesn't work for like literally everyone

00:35:53   I talked to who bought a bridge product,

00:35:55   specifically for the iPad Pro,

00:35:57   they had at least one or two units

00:36:01   that they needed to send back,

00:36:03   which is not a good sign, I think.

00:36:06   - And you know, if I were,

00:36:08   if I were in love with the way it felt and didn't squeak,

00:36:14   you know, like, okay,

00:36:16   but you can't fix the hinge depth issue.

00:36:17   Like, I can't, they can't replace it and it'd be better.

00:36:21   And again, you can use the keyboard shortcut and stuff,

00:36:23   but that's so ingrained already.

00:36:25   And when the dock is up with the keyboard shortcut,

00:36:27   you only kind of see the top two thirds of the icons

00:36:29   because the bottom of it is like

00:36:31   slid below your field of view.

00:36:32   It's just, it's not great.

00:36:34   Federico, you bought some stuff.

00:36:39   I've bought some stuff.

00:36:40   Dear listener, it is now your turn to buy some stuff.

00:36:44   We have over at relay.fm/store,

00:36:50   we have the triumphant return of the AirPod sticker case

00:36:56   that makes it look like a thing of floss.

00:36:58   It now looks like a cinnamon, cinnamon flavored floss,

00:37:00   which is nice.

00:37:01   But we're doing it as a bundle, two stickers,

00:37:05   and a cool fresh shows t-shirt.

00:37:08   - Yep. - This is a pre-order,

00:37:10   so note that they will ship in mid-December,

00:37:12   but this stuff looks awesome,

00:37:13   and we're super excited about it.

00:37:15   - Yep, so it's an awesome t-shirt

00:37:16   with the original design,

00:37:17   and then we have a version two,

00:37:19   which is red now instead of green,

00:37:22   of the stickers, and you get two of them now,

00:37:23   So you can use one on your AirPods case now,

00:37:26   and then when you buy a new one,

00:37:27   so you can use the inductive charging later on.

00:37:30   So we think about you, we think about you.

00:37:32   You'll have a second.

00:37:33   They're really great.

00:37:34   I have had my AirPods sticker on my AirPods

00:37:38   for a long time now, and I'm looking forward

00:37:40   to replacing it with a red one.

00:37:42   As Steven said, we're gonna be, okay, so here's the thing.

00:37:44   We put these up on our store,

00:37:45   the original stickers, a while back,

00:37:48   and they sold out in like an hour or something.

00:37:50   Like it was bonkers. - Hundreds of them.

00:37:52   Yeah, we sold hundreds of them in like an hour.

00:37:55   So we decided this time,

00:37:56   we wanted to make sure that we gave a period of time

00:37:59   that everybody that wants this can get it.

00:38:01   So we do in the pre-order

00:38:03   and then it's gonna ship later on.

00:38:05   We also decided to bundle it up with a t-shirt

00:38:07   for a bunch of reasons.

00:38:08   One, because it's awesome and cool.

00:38:10   The other is like, it helps with the shipping

00:38:12   'cause especially with some of the international shipping,

00:38:14   it's fixed rate anyway,

00:38:16   whether we send just two stickers in an envelope

00:38:19   or a t-shirt, right?

00:38:22   So we figured why not do it all? I think it's a cool package and probably a good holiday

00:38:26   gift as well. So there you go. So go check it out. We got it in the store. It's only

00:38:31   $25 and we're going to be shipping them all out from Atlanta. I'm sorry if you're international.

00:38:36   We can only ship these from our fulfillment center in Atlanta, which is provided by the

00:38:40   wonderful folk over at NOC. There's no way we can do it from Europe, I'm afraid. So there

00:38:45   is a more expensive shipping here. But if you're a Relay FM member, don't forget to

00:38:50   check your email in the last newsletter there is a code that you can use to get

00:38:54   what is a percent off Steven? Members get 15% off. Right so there's a code if

00:39:00   you're a relay FM member to get 15% off anyway but yeah so that that's the case

00:39:04   that's the well that's the stickers for the case and a t-shirt and you should

00:39:09   buy them and then you can be cool and fresh too just like your AirPods. So Myke

00:39:13   I woke up this morning like I do most mornings with text messages in our

00:39:18   Connected thread and then in that was a direction to go to Twitter you had quite

00:39:26   the morning so share your morning with the class. So I didn't even

00:39:31   really want to but you wanted me to because it was like I was just so

00:39:36   annoyed and and I'm just like it's done now but okay I will share my morning

00:39:42   with you I'm gonna put in the show notes some Twitter threads I also just wasn't

00:39:46   I wasn't very good at twitter threads today, just adding to the whole hilarity of everything.

00:39:53   So there's two tweets, there's different parts of this twitter thread that can illustrate

00:39:59   to you the problems that I had this morning.

00:40:01   So I was on my iPad.

00:40:02   I was on iOS 11, not on a beta version, just standard iOS 11.

00:40:08   And I was in the files app and I wanted to clean out some files that I had in there.

00:40:14   I had like three PDFs and some like attachments that have been downloaded. I had like five things so I

00:40:20   Selected them all right. So like I did like I think there's like a button to select multiple things

00:40:26   I selected them all I press delete

00:40:28   when I pressed delete on these five items, I 100% just had these five items chosen an

00:40:34   unknown amount of things deleted from my

00:40:38   iCloud

00:40:41   drive storage container in the files app. So I had a long list of folders and a lot

00:40:46   of them just disappeared. They were gone. Namely, one of these, the most important one,

00:40:52   was my pages folder which has like 120 documents in it. Now, I have backups of all of this

00:41:00   stuff because usually these things go from iCloud to somewhere else, but I also just

00:41:05   didn't want to lose them because I very frequently open pages and I go to a recent document and

00:41:10   and I duplicate it. So it's just simple. But they were all gone. The folders were gone,

00:41:15   the documents were gone. If I searched for the pages folder, I could find it in search,

00:41:21   but then when I accessed it there was nothing in it and it wasn't showing anywhere. When

00:41:28   I opened the pages app on my 12.9 inch iPad Pro, it brought up the file picker, but no

00:41:34   pages folder. When I created a new document it just saved it to whatever location I chose.

00:41:41   I then was like ah something bad has happened let me force quit. Force quit nothing. Restarted

00:41:46   nothing. These folders were just gone. So like you know I've seen stuff like this before.

00:41:50   Files can be a bit weird at times so I decided to go to my 10.5 inch iPad Pro.

00:41:55   It saw the exact same stuff. All the files were gone. All the folders were gone. All the files

00:42:02   Again, no idea just how many, right?

00:42:04   Because it was just, I don't keep a list anywhere

00:42:08   of all the folders that I have in my iCloud drive.

00:42:10   It's just a bunch of apps that have the container folders in there, right?

00:42:14   They're all gone. I went to the small iPad, they're all gone in files.

00:42:18   I opened Pages on the small iPad. Pages wouldn't open.

00:42:24   Oh, it's just a white screen, blank white screen. Wouldn't open.

00:42:27   I assume because it's looking for something that doesn't exist.

00:42:30   exist. So I thought to myself, right. Oh, and the recently deleted, just had a bunch

00:42:39   of random files, none of the folders, and like huge, just not there, like tons of stuff

00:42:44   not there. So I thought, right, so how can I fix this? So I thought, right, the container

00:42:48   of truth or whatever is iCloud. So I grabbed my iPad, I went to iCloud.com. It tells me

00:42:54   that I can't use that website on an iOS device so I requested the desktop version, got the

00:43:02   desktop version and couldn't find, so I went to pages, that was just spinning, nothing,

00:43:08   all I could do was create new files on the web in pages, didn't have any of the files

00:43:13   there, so I thought, ah ok, what can I do? Well, I know that I back my mac up with time

00:43:19   machine and I know that iCloud drive all that stuff is locally stored right on the device

00:43:25   so I was like I know what I'll do I'll go there. So I went to my Mac and turned it on

00:43:29   my Mac had the exact same amount of folders like the six folders or whatever that was

00:43:33   on my iOS devices in the files app. So then I went to time machine. Time machine had a

00:43:40   like almost three times the amount of folders right just loads lots and lots and lots of

00:43:45   things that have disappeared. Some of them honestly that I didn't even know were there,

00:43:51   so I don't really know where this was all being pulled from, but yeah, there was a lot

00:43:55   of stuff that just wasn't showing. So the first thing I did, and I was fooled by this,

00:44:02   the UI wasn't very clear to me, the restore button is greyed out in Time Machine. Now

00:44:07   what I actually needed to do, which I didn't know, was to select each folder that I needed

00:44:11   to restore. In my mind, I don't know why I thought this, but there would just be a restore

00:44:17   button and I'd hit it and it would replace everything. But it didn't do that. I ended

00:44:21   up later on doing this, but this is another part of the story that I'll come back to in

00:44:25   a minute. So then I went to iCloud.com because maybe there was stuff in there that I wasn't

00:44:31   finding. People were telling me that there is a file, like a more file recovery restore

00:44:34   files thing. So I went to the restore files on iCloud.com and there was a list of files.

00:44:40   It was like 120 files or something. No folders, just the files.

00:44:45   And there was 100% not everything in there because the files that I actually wanted to delete,

00:44:51   right, so what started all of this, they were not showing up in the restore files dialog.

00:44:56   They were not there. A lot of my pages documents were there.

00:45:00   But I do not have faith that I restored everything because I didn't restore the things that I purposely deleted.

00:45:06   So where are they? So does that mean that there are other things that I don't know about?

00:45:11   Right, so this is where I am at this point. Then I decided that I would just restore these files.

00:45:18   142 files, I started restoring them. Then I got an error on iCloud.com.

00:45:23   iCloud driver stopped responding. I got that error. It had a very helpful create radar button,

00:45:29   which I decided to just ignore and press the send to Apple files thing. I'm just not going to file

00:45:35   a radar for this. I'm not doing it. Not doing it. Not doing it. Not a developer in this

00:45:39   instance. I'm merely a customer. Customers shouldn't file radars. That's not what this

00:45:44   is. You can send feedback. Feedback is a different thing to radar. The feedback system that you

00:45:50   can get on iOS betas is way more friendly than the radar system.

00:45:54   Wait, you don't... Do you mean we're not morally obligated to filing radars?

00:45:59   Turns out, yeah. Turns out you don't have to do that. I didn't want to do that.

00:46:02   Interesting.

00:46:03   I decided that what I would do, be helpful, I would press the send to Apple button.

00:46:07   So it sent some diagnostics.

00:46:09   Someone can look at that somewhere if they really want to.

00:46:11   But I decided that considering I was dealing with a potentially massive data loss problem,

00:46:16   I did not have the time in my day to sit down and create a radar for it.

00:46:21   Sorry everybody, that's just where I was in my day.

00:46:25   Then I refreshed the page, there was nothing left to restore, so I'm assuming that it restored

00:46:29   all those files and then somehow iCloud balked and just died on me. So what it ended up being

00:46:36   was I had some of my files back and they were in iOS, the folders were back, right? So when

00:46:42   I restored the files, it somehow restored the folders and I had a pages folder of 111

00:46:46   documents back. I have no idea if that's the right amount, but they were back. Then the

00:46:51   Mac saw them too. But then what I did was I thought, because somebody said to me, oh,

00:46:57   you can select files in the time machine and press restore. So I was like, okay, I'll do

00:47:02   that and compare them. So I did that. I selected the files, I pressed the restore button, and

00:47:10   what I had was 36 folders with the name Documents. Which is, again, not very helpful. Because

00:47:20   what I'm assuming is, and I can click into them, that these are by application. But one,

00:47:25   I don't necessarily know which one relates to which.

00:47:28   And two, I can't then take those

00:47:30   and put them back into iCloud Drive

00:47:31   when the pages folder didn't exist.

00:47:34   There was no folder anymore and I couldn't recreate it.

00:47:37   So this is where I am.

00:47:41   I have some stuff back.

00:47:44   There is some stuff that I know isn't there

00:47:47   that I wanted to delete but couldn't restore.

00:47:50   So I know that that couldn't come back.

00:47:52   So what that means for me now

00:47:53   as I am having the worst kind of data loss problem,

00:47:55   I don't know exactly what I've lost,

00:48:01   which I think is the worst kind of problem, right?

00:48:04   Knowing what you've lost is one thing,

00:48:06   but not knowing what's gone is more concerning to me.

00:48:11   Now, this is all in backblaze,

00:48:13   but in backblaze, I'm gonna have the exact same problem

00:48:16   as I have with Time Machine,

00:48:17   because it's just gonna see it the way that macOS sees it.

00:48:20   And for some reason, Mac OS sees these iCloud Drive documents as just these weird folders

00:48:26   that when they're backed up, you can't restore them as they were.

00:48:30   And so I'm just going to be in the same problem with that.

00:48:32   So the files are in theory there, right?

00:48:34   And again, just to, I'm just trying to make sure I round out my discussion here by bringing

00:48:38   up all the points that have been brought up to me today.

00:48:41   Why do I use iCloud Drive?

00:48:43   I use iCloud Drive because apps like Pages, that's where the file storage goes.

00:48:48   That's just where it goes.

00:48:49   and then you choose to save it somewhere else.

00:48:51   When I'm done with a pages document,

00:48:53   I export it to Dropbox.

00:48:54   But these are all the working files

00:48:56   and this is the copy files and stuff like that.

00:48:58   Some applications they create on iOS,

00:49:01   their whole file structure just lives in iCloud drive.

00:49:04   That's just where it is.

00:49:05   And also, I never had a problem before

00:49:08   and I didn't expect that when I deleted a random PDF document

00:49:10   it was gonna also take down my pages folder with it,

00:49:13   which it wasn't even inside, right?

00:49:15   This isn't something that I had anticipated.

00:49:17   So I can tell you, I will use this less,

00:49:19   For apps like Pages, if I create a new document, this is just where it saves it.

00:49:23   This is just where it goes.

00:49:27   This is where I am.

00:49:28   I'm very frustrated with my morning because as is usual with a lot of this stuff, especially

00:49:33   iCloud related, I have very, very little control as a user for how to restore this stuff.

00:49:40   Something happened which is out of my control and I don't really have the tools that I want.

00:49:45   For example, if this happened with Dropbox, I can go in and restore all the folders.

00:49:51   Their restoring feature is fantastic.

00:49:53   It has everything.

00:49:54   I've done this so many times.

00:49:56   You can restore files, you can restore folders.

00:49:58   If you restore a file, it reinstates all of the document structure that it was built in.

00:50:02   So if it was in six nested folders, it recreates all six nested folders so it keeps the context.

00:50:07   iCloud Drive, whilst showing that it has a restore files dialog, it was nowhere near

00:50:12   as clear and I know it didn't restore everything.

00:50:14   So this is where I am.

00:50:18   So this is just horrible, Myke, and I feel like I need to tell you that you're gonna

00:50:23   get a bunch of people who are gonna be well actually on Twitter and come up with all kinds

00:50:29   of crazy explanations and I just want to tell you first it's not your fault.

00:50:32   Oh, I know it's not my fault.

00:50:34   Thank you.

00:50:35   No, I just want to make sure that you know where I stand.

00:50:39   Just a terrible service.

00:50:40   And I think we discussed in the past that one of the problems with Apple services and

00:50:45   especially iCloud Drive is that it's just so opaque and it doesn't show you what is

00:50:50   going on behind the scenes.

00:50:53   There's an argument to be made for simplicity, right?

00:50:57   But when that comes at the expense of user control and data loss and being able to restore

00:51:03   your data, well, that is not simplicity, that is bad design.

00:51:08   I believe this is a case of bad design with a very practical and problematic conclusion,

00:51:15   which is now you don't know how many files you lost and you had to go through this hellscape of

00:51:21   a data restore process. I'm really sorry that this happened to you and it should be like...

00:51:29   Apple should consider these stories, you know, for example when Steven had the problem with the

00:51:38   photo library and you know I remember a bunch of stories from twitter

00:51:42   like you this this shouldn't happen in the sense of a user

00:51:49   shouldn't have to go through this should be a simple

00:51:53   button that says restore deleted files dropbox get this right other cloud

00:51:58   services get this right why do you have to slap this

00:52:04   sense of this is so simple, this is so artistic,

00:52:07   this is so intuitive on top of a cloud service

00:52:10   when bad stuff happens.

00:52:12   And this is bad stuff, right?

00:52:14   There's no way around it.

00:52:15   This is not an opinion.

00:52:16   This is just a bad problem and a bad design.

00:52:21   It's not like, well, I think iCloud Drive is great.

00:52:24   Well, that is not helpful

00:52:26   because I know we're gonna get a bunch of people saying,

00:52:28   oh, they're complaining about iCloud Drive.

00:52:30   I think iCloud Drive is perfect.

00:52:31   It's never caused any problems for me.

00:52:33   Well, it causes problems for other people.

00:52:36   - I had that opinion until this morning, right?

00:52:39   It's fine to think that until your files get deleted

00:52:41   and then it's not so great anymore.

00:52:43   - Yeah, exactly.

00:52:44   And now there's no single magic fix

00:52:48   to make sure the problems don't happen,

00:52:50   but you can prevent this kind of process from happening

00:52:55   by having options and features and a different design

00:53:00   that allows the user to see what is going on, to control what is going on, and to easily restore stuff.

00:53:06   This is not so difficult to have a restore feature. It's on the web somehow.

00:53:12   Make it available everywhere. It's not so difficult, really.

00:53:16   And this is just so terrible, Myke. I'm sorry.

00:53:21   Yeah. This is...

00:53:23   My biggest problem with a lot of this, right, was I have a busy day today, and I spent an hour dealing with this.

00:53:30   It's like I am trying to be a professional user on iOS, right?

00:53:34   Like don't make me look a fool because that's how I feel.

00:53:37   Right.

00:53:38   I feel like, oh, well now I'm a fool for using this.

00:53:41   Right.

00:53:41   Like I chose to use what Apple was trying to say is the method for

00:53:46   professionals, which is the files app.

00:53:48   And then the files app just chewed up a bunch of my documents for me.

00:53:51   Right.

00:53:52   And so now, now who's the idiot, right?

00:53:54   It's me because then I spent a bunch of time on the Mac trying to deal with it.

00:53:58   And the Mac can't handle it because the Mac's not built

00:54:01   to understand how to use iCloud properly

00:54:02   because it was bolted in, right?

00:54:04   So it creates these weird folders called documents,

00:54:06   which doesn't make any sense,

00:54:08   when it's coming from an Apple Time Machine backup, right?

00:54:11   So it's like, where is all this stuff then?

00:54:13   Where does it live?

00:54:14   What is it supposed,

00:54:15   where, how am I supposed to use this Apple?

00:54:16   Please tell me,

00:54:17   because you're really making it difficult for me

00:54:20   to keep to the year of optimism here.

00:54:23   When you delete like 200 of my files in one,

00:54:27   Just in one strike. I only wanted to delete five and instead they cleaned up

00:54:30   200 for me. So in a different folder, completely different folders, like

00:54:34   multiple folders, like my workflow folder was deleted with my like preferences

00:54:38   and like every just like so many.

00:54:40   Right. So maybe like ten folders, five folders just all gone with all of their

00:54:44   content. Like should you not maybe like if you if someone's deleting that

00:54:49   amount of stuff, just be like, hey, do you want to delete this?

00:54:53   Like you're deleting like 200 files in one go.

00:54:57   Are you sure about that?

00:54:58   Like if I do that on Dropbox, I get an email

00:55:01   where they say, hey, 200 files got deleted.

00:55:04   Do you wanna check this is okay?

00:55:06   But hey, huh?

00:55:09   - Yeah.

00:55:10   - That, you know, the opacity around all of this

00:55:13   I think is an interesting point.

00:55:15   For some stuff, that's fine, right?

00:55:18   Like Safari bookmark syncing, contact syncing,

00:55:22   those are pretty simple systems, right?

00:55:24   You put data in and stuff happens.

00:55:28   But with files, I absolutely agree that there should be,

00:55:31   there should be safety nets where, you know, like you said,

00:55:34   hey, you just deleted a bunch of stuff, that's weird.

00:55:38   Are you sure you wanna do that?

00:55:39   No, I don't, it was an accident.

00:55:41   Or we deleted it for you.

00:55:44   That stuff just shouldn't be feasible.

00:55:46   - You sure you wanted us to take care of that?

00:55:47   Like, your help?

00:55:48   - We got real excited.

00:55:50   But the lack of a decent recovery,

00:55:54   especially from iCloud.com,

00:55:55   is what is the grossest thing to me here.

00:55:59   That, yeah, like, the files app shouldn't have done this,

00:56:04   that's super bad in lots of ways,

00:56:06   but your recovery should be bulletproof.

00:56:10   And forget Mac on the time machine, right?

00:56:12   Like, lots of iCloud users don't use the Mac,

00:56:15   but iCloud.com recovery should be perfect.

00:56:20   Like that is the place that they should have that right.

00:56:24   And the fact that it didn't work,

00:56:26   I've actually been on the fence

00:56:29   about using iCloud Drive more,

00:56:31   about putting some stuff in there

00:56:32   that I would like accessible on the internet

00:56:33   but don't necessarily need all the time.

00:56:36   I'm just not gonna do it.

00:56:37   Like I just don't, like this is really worrisome

00:56:41   and I hope that you get this resolved.

00:56:45   hope that maybe Apple intervenes or if you decide to talk to Apple about it.

00:56:48   But that recovery not working is is

00:56:52   the most problematic thing I've heard in a long time about Apple software.

00:56:56   So it's like, OK, so just the recovery thing, right?

00:56:59   Like it what I recovered, it recovered well.

00:57:03   So the files that I recovered, they went back into

00:57:07   a fault like the pages folder was recreated somehow and the pages

00:57:11   documents were put back in it. But as I said, there were files that I know I had deleted

00:57:17   that didn't come back. So I don't know what's happened with those. Maybe they're still being

00:57:22   recently deleted on my device, but why are they also not in the restore files dialog?

00:57:27   Another thing is just the UI of the restore files dialog is maddening. You can see four

00:57:32   files at a time, and it doesn't give any real context for them. And that's kind of all you

00:57:40   can do is you just select them and restore them, you can sort them, but that's kind of

00:57:45   all you can do. And then they delete permanently after 30 days. So it's good that they have

00:57:51   something, but compare it to Dropbox and, you know, they're miles apart, right? They're

00:57:56   just miles apart. Like, even just with the way that the UI is done. So on Dropbox, when

00:58:00   you go do it on the web, you see a scrolling list as big as the screen can fit with all

00:58:04   of your files in it. Just little things like that, right? Like, if I'm looking for a file,

00:58:09   I'm gonna scroll this list where I can see four at a time and it's just not good

00:58:14   And you know what you're saying about like because I know you you had this I know Federica. You've had this where

00:58:19   Apple contact you someone someone at Apple contacts you I don't want that

00:58:24   Because that's not how this stuff should work

00:58:28   Right. I shouldn't complain on Twitter and then somebody contacts me to try and fix this

00:58:32   That is not a solution to this problem because they will not do this for people like

00:58:39   Who are trying to get support there might be something you can do like somebody in the in the chat said that like they had

00:58:44   This problem so Apple reset that iCloud settings and data. So you lose other information to get this stuff back

00:58:50   I also don't want that right like I don't want someone saying oh we can we can we can restore it to yesterday

00:58:56   And you're all good was like no, but now what have I lost from today, right? Like this isn't a solution like

00:59:02   What I have where I am right now is where I'm gonna stay which is I've restored a bunch of things

00:59:08   I can see that stuff that I need is back again and I can use pages again and what I've lost I've lost

00:59:15   That's kind of just how this is going to be and I'm just going to have to hope that I saved everything I needed in Dropbox

00:59:21   where everything should be and who knows what other problems I'm going to pop into later on

00:59:26   But I don't think that a real solution to this problem is like this is fine

00:59:32   I don't even know why I started tweeting about it, right? Like I don't know why I did it

00:59:36   why I did it but I was just I was just angry so I started tweeting but I don't

00:59:43   want a resolution from it like for someone to come and help me.

00:59:48   I mean yeah you're not paying a subscription every month to have someone

00:59:53   from Apple call you on the phone and fix your problems you're paying a

00:59:55   subscription for iCalDrive which is a service that is supposed to just work

00:59:59   and also it's not like everybody has 20,000 followers on Twitter and can make

01:00:04   you know, can make noise and get Apple people to notice and get PR people to notice and send you an email.

01:00:08   This is stuff that should work at scale for millions of users.

01:00:12   And once again, I want to reiterate the message that it's not like we're asking Apple to be perfect because nobody is when it comes to web services.

01:00:22   Not even Google Drive, not even Dropbox.

01:00:24   I do not expect perfection.

01:00:26   We do not expect that, but because we know the problems are gonna happen,

01:00:31   We should have the precaution of putting features in place before things go wrong

01:00:36   So that when they do you can actually fix them. That is all we're asking for. Yep. Well, Myke

01:00:42   Sorry, buddy. This is what I want to talk about. I'm all angry now. I

01:00:46   Just my morning was destroyed and just wasted and you know

01:00:52   I part of me was tweeting it out of frustration

01:00:55   Part of me was tweeting it out of hoping that someone could fix like could give me a thing like oh just just

01:01:00   "Just tick this and it's all good again."

01:01:02   And people were giving me good solutions.

01:01:04   There were a lot of like,

01:01:05   "Why don't you try this?

01:01:06   "Why don't you try that?"

01:01:07   Like I didn't even know that there was a restore function

01:01:10   on iCloud.

01:01:11   Oh, by the way, the restore files thing

01:01:14   is tucked away as a text link

01:01:15   on the bottom left-hand side of icloud.com.

01:01:17   - Yeah, I know, I know.

01:01:18   It looks like a footnote.

01:01:21   - When you are in panic,

01:01:23   that is not what you're looking for.

01:01:26   So like I went to pages to take a look

01:01:28   to see if it was there, nothing's there.

01:01:30   It's like, yeah, it's like in the,

01:01:32   you know when you get like those,

01:01:33   you click on a website and it's like,

01:01:35   what is it called when they put like all the links

01:01:37   of the whole page, like file site structure

01:01:39   or some name like that?

01:01:40   You know what I'm talking about?

01:01:41   Site map or something, it's called, it felt like that.

01:01:44   I was like navigating the site map

01:01:45   because it was like, oh, it's like about,

01:01:48   like about tools, help, restore files.

01:01:51   It's like, really?

01:01:51   Is that what you put in this?

01:01:52   (laughing)

01:01:55   - Wow, wow.

01:01:56   - All right, things go wrong.

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01:03:44   So Federico, along with your many polls and quizzes,

01:03:51   you gave us a couple of mysterious topics this week.

01:03:56   been a man of mystery this week. And I think that this first one is gonna make me feel

01:04:00   a lot better. Yeah, yeah, this won't make you happy. So, let's cut to the conclusion

01:04:07   first. I'm using two iPads again. Yay! #MultipadLifestyle, everybody. Yeah, just get it over with now,

01:04:15   Myke. Use all the hashtags you want. Myke was right. MultipadLifestyle. All of them.

01:04:19   Oh, I wasn't even gonna say Myke was right. Thank you so much. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

01:04:22   Sure, sure, this is your moment. These 20 seconds are for you.

01:04:25   So, okay. I'm using the 10.5 App Pro and the 12.9, the second gen that I bought in June.

01:04:35   And I'm doing this because I realized that I was missing having a bigger screen while I was laying in bed at night and reading or watching videos.

01:04:48   that was not heavy like my 12.9.

01:04:52   - So had you been using your iPhone for this?

01:04:54   Is that when you say a bigger screen?

01:04:57   - Yeah, I was using my iPhone.

01:04:58   I have an iPhone Plus,

01:04:59   which a lot of my friends actually use the Plus

01:05:02   for watching Netflix and movies, YouTube at night,

01:05:05   but which is a good solution.

01:05:08   But after a while it gets, I wanted something bigger,

01:05:13   but I also didn't want to use my iPad Pro,

01:05:14   which a recent development of the 12.9,

01:05:17   we mentioned, was it last week? I feel like it was a long time ago, but I'm using the Slim Combo case.

01:05:23   So my 12.9 is now in the hard plastic case. And while I could do something like, when the workday is over,

01:05:32   I remove my iPad from the case and I go in the bedroom, I really don't want to remove the iPad from the case.

01:05:37   It's one of those things like laziness eventually wins. I know that it's actually even better than the old Logitech Create case

01:05:45   when it comes to removing the iPad from the shell,

01:05:48   but I just don't wanna do that.

01:05:49   I feel like I'm gonna break the case

01:05:51   or the iPad is gonna scratch,

01:05:53   or I'm gonna hurt my fingers because it's hard plastic.

01:05:56   And I don't wanna do that.

01:05:58   And also the iPad, the 12.9 is heavy

01:06:01   and you cannot use it with one hand

01:06:03   as comfortably as the 10.5.

01:06:06   And on the other hand, the 10.5 is really great.

01:06:09   It's really light.

01:06:10   I really love the way that the device,

01:06:12   the screen extends towards the edges of the iPad. So I had a talk with Sylvia and

01:06:17   I told her look you're now using the 10.5, if you can I would like it back and

01:06:26   you can use my old iPad Pro 9.7. She was like yeah I don't care.

01:06:32   She just uses it for music stuff like downloading playlists and

01:06:38   and I really like usage of the iPad.

01:06:41   She has a new MacBook Pro and she has an iPhone,

01:06:42   so she doesn't really use the iPad.

01:06:46   And she was super fine with it.

01:06:48   And so now I'm using the 10.5 with a smart keyboard,

01:06:53   because I don't wanna have a slim combo for the 10.5.

01:06:56   I'm using it for mainly for watching movies

01:07:02   and reading my reading list in bed.

01:07:05   That's all I'm doing.

01:07:06   some very light email before I go to sleep or checking with

01:07:10   I'm on iMessage and Slack but

01:07:13   And I'm also planning to maybe use this iPad when I travel by travel

01:07:19   I mean when twice a week I need to drive and spend two to three hours in the car waiting for my girlfriend

01:07:25   And getting some work done

01:07:28   I'm probably gonna try with the 10.5 because I feel like the 10.5 will be easier to

01:07:34   using the car as I'm sitting, you know, behind the steering wheel and just waiting.

01:07:38   And yeah, this is about it really. I'm not, I'm still working from the 12.9 because most of my

01:07:48   days I'm working from home. But when I'm done with the day and when I just want to relax,

01:07:54   the other iPad is waiting in the bedroom and it's always charging, always ready to go. And I enabled

01:08:01   automatic downloads for app updates and apps which I do not enable on my main

01:08:06   devices because I like to check manually but on this other one to reduce the

01:08:10   stress of well now my things are out of date I enabled automatic updates and

01:08:14   everything seems fine so yeah it's not really the multi-pad lifestyle like

01:08:20   it is no it is it is but not as much as you maybe because I know that you're

01:08:26   using it basically how I use it when I'm at home. So you are 100% in the

01:08:31   multi-pad lifestyle and again the multi-pad lifestyle can be anything just

01:08:35   multiple iPads in use in your life if they are then you live the multi-pad

01:08:40   lifestyle and you are living it you're living it big time Federico. I

01:08:44   qualify as a multi-pad lifestyle member. Yes you do your membership card will be

01:08:51   in the post to you. I think that you're using these devices

01:08:54   devices perfectly. I 100% think that this is the right thing, it's mostly how I treat

01:09:00   these devices. The 10.5 is the one that I travel with because it's easier to travel

01:09:03   with and I can get all my work done. I remain firm in that I believe the 10.5 inch iPad

01:09:10   Pro is the best iPad ever made because it sits in the middle so perfectly that you can

01:09:16   get most of what you need done on it work wise very comfortably and it is more comfortable

01:09:20   than the 12.9 for enjoying media because it is more manageable and there's more screen

01:09:26   in the package, right? So it looks better to watch and read on because there's less

01:09:30   bezels. I think that it's a great device and it is the one that I recommend to people most

01:09:37   of the time now unless they want to have an iPad in their life which is mainly going to

01:09:42   stay in the same place which both me and you have, right? So the 12.9 is great for that

01:09:47   But if you also want to be able to enjoy lots of media, then the 10.5 could be a better

01:09:52   pick.

01:09:53   But I and Federico now both believe that the ultimate pick is to get both of them, because

01:09:59   then you can move around your life as you desire.

01:10:04   Yeah, and absolutely, I agree.

01:10:07   And I feel like, because this is the question that Silvia asked me, and I started my response

01:10:14   before I realized, well, I sound annoyed and I didn't mean to be annoying, but it's a question

01:10:20   that some people on Twitter ask almost sarcastically every single time, "Oh, why don't you use

01:10:24   a Mac?" She didn't mean it that way, but I needed to explain the context around my frustration

01:10:29   with that question. And I think he also went through some of this, Myke. My reason for

01:10:36   this is that I don't want to use a Mac anymore, I just prefer iOS, I like working from iOS,

01:10:42   And ideally I would like to have iOS everywhere and specifically I want to have the iPad software

01:10:47   everywhere.

01:10:48   Like I want my kitchen table to have an iPad built in.

01:10:49   I want my desk to be an iPad.

01:10:52   Like if I could have iOS on as many devices as possible, I would buy that kind of smart

01:10:57   furniture if it existed.

01:11:00   But right now I just need to buy multiple pieces of glass.

01:11:02   So multiple iPads.

01:11:04   I don't want to have an iMac.

01:11:05   I don't want to have a Mac mini.

01:11:06   I don't want to have a Mac Pro in the future.

01:11:08   I just want iPads.

01:11:10   And thankfully now we have multiple form factors, which is great.

01:11:15   I don't know if in the future I will keep buying multiple iPads or maybe I'll just keep

01:11:20   one of these and upgrade my main one, like 12.9 because that is...

01:11:24   I don't know.

01:11:25   I'm just saying, I don't know.

01:11:26   So I'm just saying.

01:11:30   But yeah, this is the way I like to live my life and it's pretty nice.

01:11:36   I have a question for you though.

01:11:37   All right.

01:11:38   Okay.

01:11:39   and a couple of days ago you tweeted a picture of your Mac desktop. So what is that all about?

01:11:45   What are you doing? Well I'm talking to you from a MacBook Pro now.

01:11:48   Because I, yes I know that lightning microphones exist. Yes I'm aware that

01:11:55   there's ferrite on iOS but due to the way that I like to record podcasts and

01:12:01   that Relay needs to produce shows I cannot do that from a single iPad or

01:12:06   or from a single iOS device specifically.

01:12:09   So I need to use a MacBook for recording shows,

01:12:13   which is an important part of my life now.

01:12:16   And I realized that my MacBook desktop situation

01:12:21   was really messy, you know, like dozens of folders

01:12:24   and files and screenshots all over the place.

01:12:26   And also no real order when it came to which applications

01:12:29   I had installed, how my menu bar looked.

01:12:32   So a few days ago, I just took a couple of hours

01:12:34   and I went through my Mac.

01:12:36   as I used to do once a week years ago.

01:12:38   - When you were writing those hot Mac tips.

01:12:41   - When I was writing the Mac tips, you needed to know.

01:12:44   And yeah, I just took a couple of hours.

01:12:48   I cleaned up on desktop, chose a different wallpaper,

01:12:52   which by the way comes from the My Nintendo website.

01:12:54   So in theory, I'm not supposed to be sharing this

01:12:56   because it's piracy.

01:12:57   You need to redeem your points.

01:12:59   And also you can see that I applied a slight modification

01:13:02   to the wallpaper using Pixelmator.

01:13:04   I removed the Nintendo logo from the right side.

01:13:07   So now it's a pretty Super Nintendo

01:13:08   right in the center of the wallpaper.

01:13:10   Yeah, yeah, I'm such a graphic designer.

01:13:12   You can tell, I'm sure.

01:13:13   - Graphic designer. - It looks good.

01:13:15   - I posted this on Dribbble,

01:13:16   so everyone can comment and vote for me.

01:13:19   - I thought you were being serious for a second.

01:13:21   Like, wow.

01:13:23   - Yeah, for sure.

01:13:24   So yeah, I got my menu bar with bartender,

01:13:27   taking care of those extra icons

01:13:28   that I don't need to see all the time.

01:13:30   I actually just noticed that Skype has a menu bar icon

01:13:34   which I don't understand why,

01:13:36   but I only keep the time, notification center,

01:13:38   which you cannot remove one password and copy it,

01:13:41   which is my clipboard manager in the menu bar.

01:13:44   - And music too, right?

01:13:45   You have like a music thing in there.

01:13:47   - Oh yeah, that is called statusify.

01:13:51   I think it's like a custom menu bar widget for Spotify,

01:13:55   and it shows you the name of the currently playing song.

01:14:00   And I had a surprisingly difficult time

01:14:02   trying to find this kind of menu bar tool because all of them were like, oh,

01:14:06   we're going to put a widget on your desktop. No,

01:14:08   I don't want a widget on my desktop.

01:14:09   I don't want to have a CD case on my desktop.

01:14:11   I don't want to have a CD case like a plastic case floating on my desktop.

01:14:17   I just want the name of the song that I'm listening to.

01:14:21   I used to have one of those.

01:14:23   Yeah, me too. Like Bowtie. What was the name? Bowtie?

01:14:26   Oh, I don't remember. But like it was, it was,

01:14:29   It created a little jewel case that was on my desktop all the time.

01:14:32   Wow.

01:14:33   If I wanted that, I would go back to my parents' house and look at their...

01:14:37   Look at my bedroom and a bunch of CD cases.

01:14:39   I don't want that.

01:14:41   I just want to see the name of the song I'm listening to.

01:14:44   And so I found that somewhere on GitHub, I think it works pretty nicely.

01:14:49   So...

01:14:50   But you know what was funny to me?

01:14:51   You know that thing called the fuzzy clock, right?

01:14:55   Where it's like...

01:14:56   Oh man.

01:14:57   You know, where it's like, oh, it's like half past five.

01:14:58   I thought that that was the fuzzy clock, I was like "Why is he saying 'maybe tomorrow'?"

01:15:02   But it had the same reaction. So there you go, it's actually "maybe tomorrow" by the

01:15:09   Stereophonics. I didn't leave far enough. It could be "maybe tomorrow" if it's around

01:15:14   midnight. That's why I was like "that's a weird one, that's a weird one, like 'maybe tomorrow'?"

01:15:19   I was like "Sure, okay, they're getting a bit like introspective now."

01:15:22   Yeah, I never understood fuzzy clocks, like it feels to me like it takes more

01:15:28   cognitive load to read the fuzzy clock than actually look at numbers and see

01:15:33   what they mean. Because you need to look at a word and parse the word

01:15:38   and understand its meaning. I just prefer simple numbers. And this is what

01:15:44   I did. I just took care of cleaning up my Mac as a normal Mac user, which was

01:15:49   interesting for a day, but that was enough.

01:15:53   Yeah. It looks good. What do you think, Steven, about like, stock placement and stuff like

01:16:00   that? I mean, the dock should be on the right side.

01:16:03   Really? Okay, so, if you... Okay, I'm not getting into this again, but I just wanna

01:16:10   point out how on iOS, the dock is at the bottom. So that's all I'm saying.

01:16:14   Yeah, 'cause it's not as evolved as the Mac is yet. That's all.

01:16:18   Yes, that is totally the reason why. You're right.

01:16:23   Myke, you should have written ad before we break up with Joe.

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01:18:03   So talking about new phones, let's round out today's episode by talking about a couple

01:18:09   of new phones.

01:18:10   Let's talk about the Google Pixel 2.

01:18:12   There are some problems.

01:18:14   So I will say that I have seen a bunch of reviews about the Google Pixel 2 that are

01:18:18   very very very complimentary about this phone.

01:18:22   Right.

01:18:23   Yeah.

01:18:24   A lot of people really really like this phone.

01:18:26   That it is exactly what people were hoping for, right, as an advancement to the Pixel

01:18:30   line and that the Pixel XL delivers on the design that people were hoping for.

01:18:35   Like apparently it feels really good in the hand and the screen is really big and it's

01:18:38   really smart and all that kind of stuff.

01:18:41   I will put a link in the show notes too.

01:18:43   As is typical for me, my favourite review of any of these devices, which is MKBHD's

01:18:48   review, which I watched this morning, but you know, you can go to basically anywhere

01:18:52   and you will find a good review of these devices, right?

01:18:56   There are a couple of problems and these problems have been mentioned in some reviews, not mentioned

01:19:01   in others because they don't seem to be like completely every device and/or some people

01:19:07   feel differently about them.

01:19:08   So there's a couple of things here.

01:19:10   One is a blue hue when you tilt a phone, the XL.

01:19:15   Most of these problems seem to be kept to the XL and we'll get into why that is in a

01:19:19   minute.

01:19:20   At certain angles when you look at the phone it kind of has a bit of a blue hue to it.

01:19:25   And you may have seen this type of stuff with screens before.

01:19:28   I think before screens started getting, is it called IPS?

01:19:32   Where you can look at things from different angles and it looks fine.

01:19:35   But like before IPS displays you would look at a display and it would look weird from

01:19:39   different angles.

01:19:40   That isn't what's happening here, but it's a similar effect.

01:19:43   It's worse on OLED displays.

01:19:46   LCDs, IPS is nice, but you don't have this weird off-axis color shift like you do with

01:19:51   the OLED arrangement.

01:19:53   And then the other one is display burn-in, which is something that happens especially

01:19:58   to OLED displays.

01:20:00   I've seen, there was a, I can't remember which phone it was, it may have been the Samsung

01:20:07   Galaxy line where because the problem is that Android has

01:20:10   Software buttons that are persistent on the screen whenever you're not in a full screen application, right?

01:20:17   So there is like a back button a home button and a multitasking button and they are persistent

01:20:21   They are always there as a black background

01:20:22   typically with a white outline and on the Samsung phones people notice that what Samsung were doing was slightly shifting

01:20:30   the

01:20:32   These icons like just a pixel here and there to stop the burning from happening

01:20:37   right because they weren't staying persistent on one place so every now and

01:20:40   then it would move a little bit not so much that it was perceptible right but

01:20:43   they would move it. Either something weird is going on or

01:20:47   Google's not doing this or something's broken somewhere because there are a

01:20:50   bunch of devices that are seeing burn-in of these

01:20:54   elements. This stuff has gotten so bad that The Verge

01:20:59   who had a great review of the Pixel 2 and were very very complimentary of it

01:21:03   they have they've issued a statement, DataBone issued a statement

01:21:07   and they have pulled the score of their review of the Pixel 2 XL until they can get more

01:21:14   information about this from Google. They're mostly focusing on the burn-in as a thing

01:21:18   because the blue hue thing, people were seeing that in the reviews and MKBHD said this and

01:21:25   I mostly agree, it's like that either bothers you or it doesn't. It's just a thing, some

01:21:29   people are more attuned to it than others but burn-in on a screen after like a week

01:21:34   of using it, that's kind of an unacceptable thing. When it's visually perceptible, that's

01:21:41   just not good. So it seems like these problems are coming from the display panels that are

01:21:51   being used in the XL, which is a LG panel. Now the regular size Pixel 2 is using a Samsung

01:22:01   panel and that is not getting any of these problems. What it looks like is that LG are

01:22:07   not good enough with their panels and I don't understand how this stuff was not caught in

01:22:14   testing and that they decided to ship this product.

01:22:17   I mean, it may be that a certain company just bought up everything else.

01:22:21   Well, okay, that is true, right?

01:22:23   A certain company that's launching its first OLED phone next week.

01:22:27   So the scuttlebutt is that Apple is using Samsung OLED panels.

01:22:34   And so it is possible, we don't know this, but you can assume that maybe Apple went in

01:22:39   with literally all the money and bought everything that they could that Samsung isn't using for

01:22:43   their own phones.

01:22:44   So basically Samsung OLEDs are taken off the market right now because Apple is buying them

01:22:50   all.

01:22:51   But I wonder to myself, what do you do if you're Google?

01:22:56   Do you ship a flawed product or do you not ship it at all?

01:23:00   Like I don't know what the right option is in that.

01:23:02   Like for them, there's a bunch of different avenues there.

01:23:05   But this is adding to more troubles for Google's hardware team, right?

01:23:11   Last week we spoke about the fact that they had to disable buttons on the home mini, which

01:23:15   has been no resolution to as of yet, and now they have bad screens on their highest end

01:23:22   $850 phone.

01:23:24   Yeah, it's not a good look and it feels like they are working with hardware almost at a

01:23:34   startup level. They're making mistakes that young companies would do but at Google's scale

01:23:41   and reputation.

01:23:43   Because in theory they are a young hardware company, right? Like the made by Google stuff

01:23:49   is like two years old, right?

01:23:50   Like this is how they're kind of doing this themselves now.

01:23:53   But yeah, I agree with you.

01:23:55   Then they can't make those mistakes, right?

01:23:57   They can't. Yeah.

01:23:59   Yeah, they're not in the position to do that.

01:24:01   Yeah, it's not like the the the essential phone,

01:24:05   like they come up and they come out and they have some issues with the phone

01:24:09   and you're like, well, I'm willing to, you know, cut them some slack

01:24:13   because they're a young company,

01:24:14   you know, opened up for business officially this year.

01:24:17   So I understand why.

01:24:18   it's more difficult to understand why Google can make these kinds of mistakes and especially how you

01:24:24   like what is the what's the process that led to these phones being released like didn't nobody

01:24:33   check the the screen at a different angle like this is basic stuff that people can walk into a

01:24:40   store and notice by themselves right but then the the the other question is did they test it

01:24:46   and decided to just ship it, right?

01:24:48   Like, they may have known, right?

01:24:50   They may well have known.

01:24:51   That they may.

01:24:52   And if that is what happened,

01:24:55   I question Google's ability to make these kind of decisions, because

01:24:59   would could you see could you see Apple, for example,

01:25:03   or even Samsung with the with the with the Galaxy and the notes

01:25:07   willingly releasing a phone that they know as these kinds of major

01:25:13   display issues that reviewers and YouTubers and everybody's gonna talk about.

01:25:17   Can you see that happening for Apple and Samsung?

01:25:20   Probably not, but like the question is though, right? So like yes, I agree with

01:25:24   the question is, what do you do? You delay the phone, that's what you do.

01:25:29   Don't announce the phone. If it has to come out with a bad LG display, it

01:25:33   doesn't come out at all. So like maybe you make an LCD,

01:25:38   like maybe you put an LCD panel in it instead? Also. Which isn't as good,

01:25:41   like maybe you don't have any problems with it like and i know that like so here's another thing

01:25:46   that i've been observing i've been paying attention to this right just stuff over the last

01:25:49   week or two if you think that the apple versus uh android wars are bad oh boy just look at how

01:25:58   competing fans of android phones argue at each other like that's where the real nastiness lies

01:26:07   these days. Looking at the comments on some of these stories, it's like people are going

01:26:12   crazy because they love Samsung and Google suck, right? Or like, everyone's complaining

01:26:18   when LG made this feature on their phone but now it's on Google's phone and everybody loves

01:26:22   it. It seems to be like that's where the fighting's happening now. It's like, because these phones

01:26:27   have this soft cover, sorry, it's like a soft touch to them. It's like some coating that

01:26:34   they do to the aluminium and apparently this has been on other phones and when it was reviewed

01:26:37   it was pan this is what people I've seen people complaining about but now it's on the pixel phone

01:26:41   people love it like that's there's so much fighting in like the fans of different android devices

01:26:46   that was really surprising to me I didn't really think that that was something that's happening

01:26:50   but it's all different companies right it's like LG and Google and HTC Samsung but I don't know

01:26:56   it looks to me that like if you want to get the best hardware you should probably still go over

01:27:01   Samsung devices but the problem is that from the software perspective and the integration

01:27:07   Google makes the best, right?

01:27:08   It's like, oh man, that sucks, right?

01:27:10   Like if you want the best hardware,

01:27:12   it probably isn't Google right now.

01:27:14   Although Google probably have the best camera

01:27:17   and they have the best integration with Android.

01:27:18   - The little pixel avoids all of this stuff.

01:27:22   - But?

01:27:23   - 'Cause it uses a better display panel.

01:27:24   - It doesn't look good.

01:27:26   - I mean it's a little chunky.

01:27:27   - Yeah.

01:27:28   - It's fine.

01:27:29   - It doesn't look so good.

01:27:30   So yeah, it seems like tough times.

01:27:32   And you obviously with your ear to the ground,

01:27:36   Steven, you noticed that there was some hissing.

01:27:39   There's an article in Engadget this morning.

01:27:43   Pixel phones reported to make strange noises.

01:27:46   So clicks and high frequency noises.

01:27:49   Seems like his skate has struck the other side of the fence.

01:27:55   I feel bad for people that buy these phones.

01:27:57   I do.

01:27:58   I genuinely feel bad for them because they're really expensive.

01:28:01   A friend of mine bought a Pixel 2.

01:28:03   He did not do the XL and he feels like he dodged a giant bullet.

01:28:07   But yeah, I mean, it's an enthusiast device, it's expensive.

01:28:13   Pixel phones, just like the Nexus line before it, don't sell in great quantities in comparison

01:28:17   to other Android phones.

01:28:18   And people, you kind of go out of your way to get one of these.

01:28:22   And so yeah, it's got to be a real bummer.

01:28:24   And we would feel the same way with the iPhone X came out and it had issues.

01:28:28   I mean, I'm just going to say right now, there could be, right?

01:28:31   Like, you know, it's one of the reasons

01:28:33   we're trying to be quite fair.

01:28:34   But you never really know though, right?

01:28:37   Like, this phone is weird and different enough

01:28:40   in a bunch of ways and we're hearing that there's delays

01:28:43   and, you know, there could be stuff that we don't know yet.

01:28:46   - There could definitely be issues with it.

01:28:48   I don't think they would have this issue.

01:28:49   - Sure. - But yeah, I mean,

01:28:50   it's, I mean, right, like, if you had told me

01:28:52   Apple was gonna ship a keyboard that a piece of desk

01:28:54   could destroy, I wouldn't have believed you,

01:28:56   but this is the world we live in.

01:28:57   - Here we are, right?

01:28:58   So, you never know, you never know.

01:29:00   I mean, I hope not, but yeah, that's it.

01:29:02   Should we talk about that quick before we go?

01:29:04   iPhone pre-orders, end of this week.

01:29:06   - Yeah, two days from now.

01:29:08   - Wondering what our plans are about that.

01:29:10   I assume we're all just gonna try our very best

01:29:12   to pre-order them, right?

01:29:14   - Yeah, yeah.

01:29:15   - Like multiple devices,

01:29:17   I've got like a whole strategy in mind, like.

01:29:20   - So here's mine, inspired by Michael

01:29:23   and inspired by some Reddit threads.

01:29:28   I'm gonna wake up 30, 40 minutes before,

01:29:31   because I think the last time I woke up 15 minutes before

01:29:35   and it was not enough for me to be

01:29:37   as responsive as I wanted to be.

01:29:39   So 30, 40 minutes before,

01:29:40   I have my coffee machine ready to go.

01:29:43   Got my Apple Pay card ready.

01:29:48   Make sure that, because I use a different Apple ID

01:29:51   and because the Apple Store app,

01:29:53   so I'm just assuming everybody's gonna use

01:29:54   the Apple Store app because that's the best way to go.

01:29:57   The night before, because I use a different Apple ID

01:30:00   than my Italian Apple ID that I use

01:30:03   on the Italian Apple Store,

01:30:04   I will have to log out from my App Store account

01:30:07   on all of my devices, login with my Italian Apple ID,

01:30:11   make sure that the Apple Store app works

01:30:13   with my Italian account,

01:30:17   and that it has all my shipping information up to date

01:30:20   and that Apple Pay is connected,

01:30:21   and that also my backup credit card

01:30:24   is configured in my account.

01:30:26   and also make sure that in one password,

01:30:28   I have my credit card information as a favorite

01:30:31   so that if I need to be looking up some confirmation code,

01:30:35   it's all ready to go.

01:30:37   Then I'm gonna try and do the pre-order from my iPhone

01:30:42   with the big iPad Pro and the small iPad Pro as backups.

01:30:46   One of them, I think my iPhone is going to be on 4G

01:30:50   and my iPads are gonna be on Wi-Fi so that I have--

01:30:53   - This is way more than I was expecting, okay.

01:30:56   So you got like all the coverage.

01:30:57   - All the coverage so that if 4G doesn't work

01:31:00   or there's some DNS issue or propagation is different,

01:31:04   I'm gonna have a backup device.

01:31:05   And I think, I mean, Apple is gonna have

01:31:08   a supply constraint situation here.

01:31:10   So I'm thinking that, you know,

01:31:12   millions of people will be waiting in line.

01:31:14   So I guess if you want an iPhone 10 on November 3rd,

01:31:18   you probably want the process to take less than 20 seconds,

01:31:22   15 seconds maybe.

01:31:25   My only concern right now, which I want to check with you guys, what's your best strategy is, two questions.

01:31:30   One, do you start the Apple Store app from like a cold start? Like, do you force quit the app before it's

01:31:39   pre-order time and do you open it and like 20 seconds after the pre-order is open?

01:31:48   Or do you keep the app in memory and you just refresh?

01:31:53   I force quit beforehand, open it just before the time period, and then keep trying to use

01:32:01   it and keep force quitting and reopening until I get there.

01:32:06   And of course you select the iPhone model that you want as a favorite, so you just need

01:32:11   to go into your account, tap the favorite, and tap buy.

01:32:14   I've never done that before.

01:32:16   You can speed up the process.

01:32:17   That's a huge time saver.

01:32:18   I mean don't do it, don't do it Myke, it's useless, don't do it.

01:32:22   We're not pulling from the same stock.

01:32:24   We're in different countries.

01:32:25   - You don't know that.

01:32:26   - But what I want to know is, Apple says that,

01:32:29   and I'm gonna use my local times here,

01:32:31   but that doesn't matter to the question.

01:32:33   The pre-orders open at 9.01 a.m.

01:32:38   So that minute, does it mean that I have to wait for 01,

01:32:43   or do they usually go up like 30 seconds before?

01:32:46   - No idea.

01:32:47   I mean, I've had it where it's like 15 minutes later.

01:32:49   Yeah, there is no, there's absolutely no way,

01:32:53   oh I got them as favorites now, nice, nice work everybody.

01:32:57   So they're just waiting for me now.

01:32:59   I don't know, my plan is just like two iPads,

01:33:02   the Mac and an iPhone.

01:33:03   Like I'm gonna be trying to order it on all of my devices

01:33:07   and just see how I, just see how it'll go.

01:33:09   That's kind of my plan.

01:33:10   I don't have like as detailed a plan as you Federico.

01:33:13   Like I've done it already, like I've changed the card

01:33:15   in my account because I will be using a different card

01:33:18   to buy so I've just changed that card now.

01:33:20   So it's all ready and so I've been spending on it

01:33:23   the last couple of days, right, like in iTunes.

01:33:25   It's really annoying, you can't set a different card

01:33:27   in the Apple Store app.

01:33:28   Like you set a card in the Apple Store app

01:33:29   and then it updates your Apple ID with the card.

01:33:31   It's like really? - I know.

01:33:32   - Really, is that what we need to do now?

01:33:34   But I wanted to make sure that was all in there

01:33:35   so I'm not entering card information on the day.

01:33:38   And then it's just a case of crossing my fingers

01:33:39   and hoping that I'm gonna get one.

01:33:40   Honestly, I don't think I will.

01:33:42   It just doesn't seem very likely.

01:33:45   - I feel like it's not gonna happen.

01:33:47   something is gonna go wrong or I'm gonna be slow,

01:33:49   I'm gonna panic when I tap the buttons,

01:33:52   or maybe my touch ID will not be recognized by Apple Pay,

01:33:55   something's gonna happen.

01:33:56   So I just wanna make sure that unlike the last time

01:33:58   when I was kind of sleepy and also I wasn't thinking

01:34:01   straight, this time I'm gonna wake up 40 minutes before,

01:34:04   have maybe a couple of espressos,

01:34:06   and then sit down and wait and refresh and buy.

01:34:10   But it feels weird because it feels like I'm going

01:34:14   into a battle, really I just wanna give up all my money.

01:34:16   So it's an interesting mechanic I play here,

01:34:19   but that's where we are.

01:34:21   - Steven, do you have any other hot tips?

01:34:24   - No, I think I've covered it.

01:34:26   I've got the phones favorited,

01:34:28   so I have not settled on a color.

01:34:31   So my plan is if the iPhone goes first,

01:34:36   I'm gonna order black.

01:34:37   If the iPad goes first, I'm gonna order white.

01:34:40   Just leave it up to chance.

01:34:42   And yeah, Apple Pay, have everything ready to go.

01:34:45   It's two o'clock in the morning for me.

01:34:47   Over the years, I've done different things.

01:34:52   I've stayed up.

01:34:54   That's a mistake for me, 'cause then I'm just super tired.

01:34:57   So I'm gonna go to bed probably a little early

01:34:59   and then get up about 1.45, get something to eat,

01:35:02   come out to my office, turn the lights on,

01:35:04   be awake, and get to it.

01:35:07   - Yeah, at least this is the one thing

01:35:09   that me and Federico get, right?

01:35:11   Usually we don't get anything, 'cause we're not in the US,

01:35:13   this we get pre-orders at a decent time right the morning because what it's like

01:35:19   eight for me nine for you Federico it's nine for me yeah I get 8 a.m. he gets 9

01:35:24   a.m. that's good it's way better than our friends our friends on the East Coast

01:35:28   who are already tweeting us it is worse for you at 3 a.m. that is worse no doubt

01:35:33   but it is how how's the one true time zone now East Coast is

01:35:40   time zone team yeah they're all gonna be underwater eventually anyways so it's

01:35:45   it's fine so yeah so what so I'm divided on color I'm just gonna leave it up to

01:35:52   chance I don't care I'll get whatever color I get I'm probably gonna try I

01:35:57   mean I'm gonna be trying all different colors on different devices whatever I

01:35:59   get is what I get because yeah I feel like black I understand I feel like I

01:36:04   don't fully understand how the white one's gonna look because it's different

01:36:07   to how these devices looked in the past. So because I haven't seen one I have no

01:36:12   real like feeling about it I'll just get whatever I get and not be upset.

01:36:17   What size are we getting? Well again I want 256. Okay. Right but if 256 is gone

01:36:25   I will get the 64 and then deal with it later. Alright. What I will probably

01:36:30   end up doing is I'll buy the 64 and then like three or four months time I'll sell

01:36:34   and buy the big one.

01:36:36   Right, that's probably the way I'll end up going with it.

01:36:38   But like, I just, I, you know, I have one as soon as I can

01:36:42   so I can talk about it on the show.

01:36:44   Like that's what I want it for and I just want it.

01:36:47   So I have the dual purpose of just want it.

01:36:50   Oh, I have one last tip for anybody in London.

01:36:53   Just anyone in London, this is my tip for you.

01:36:56   Wait 20 minutes.

01:36:57   That's my tip.

01:36:59   Just wait 20 minutes.

01:37:00   I have heard that if you live in London

01:37:03   and you want to pick up any of the London stores,

01:37:06   just wait 20 minutes and you will definitely get one.

01:37:10   That is my tip for anybody that lives in London.

01:37:12   - What does that mean, wait 20?

01:37:14   - He's just trolling people.

01:37:16   - Just wait 20 minutes, it's fine.

01:37:18   If you just wait, just give it some time,

01:37:20   wait 20 minutes and you'll be able to get the phone,

01:37:23   no problem, just, or the other thing you can do

01:37:27   is just stay tuned to my Twitter feed

01:37:29   and as soon as I tweet that I have one,

01:37:31   Then is the perfect time for you to order.

01:37:35   That's my tip for anybody in London.

01:37:38   We should say Apple had their press release today, you know, reminding everybody of preorders,

01:37:42   and they have said that they will be stock in retail stores and that you should arrive

01:37:47   early.

01:37:48   So they want people to be lined up.

01:37:49   They didn't say how much the stock is.

01:37:53   I guess we'll see how our preorders go.

01:37:56   But part of me, so if something bad happens, right, and my preorder is like four weeks

01:38:01   out they don't bill you until the phone ships right and I think up into the

01:38:06   point you can cancel your pre-order I think it would be tempting to if you

01:38:12   know if I if something goes terribly wrong in the middle of the night like to

01:38:15   go early and go line up like my I'm not in a big city like my my store will have

01:38:20   people lined up but it won't be it won't be nuts you know if I were out there at

01:38:23   midnight I would be early I think so we'll see how it goes I don't want to

01:38:28   lineup. I've never lined up for a phone, but that's sort of my safety net.

01:38:32   But I'm hoping I don't have to do it.

01:38:34   I haven't. I mean, you'll know next week if if I'm going to do that or not.

01:38:38   Like, but I have entertained in my mind the idea that I might go line up.

01:38:43   The problem that I have, my closest stores are two of the biggest Apple stores in

01:38:48   the world. So, yeah, literally how early would I need to be?

01:38:52   Like four days early. Right.

01:38:54   Like, so I don't really know what I would do in that case.

01:38:57   - It'd be a good vlog.

01:38:58   - Would it though?

01:39:00   I'd just be standing in a line.

01:39:01   I would go, if I'm gonna do that,

01:39:05   I would go as early as the train could get me there.

01:39:09   Like I'm not gonna stay over, right?

01:39:11   But if I was gonna get there at like five or six a.m.

01:39:15   then I would do that and then just have my fingers crossed

01:39:19   that they would have enough for me.

01:39:20   I mean the benefit is yeah the lines will be long

01:39:22   but also if they're gonna have good stock anywhere

01:39:24   in the UK it's gonna be in Regent Street

01:39:26   Covent Garden, right? They're the two stores, right? They're the two biggest, right? If

01:39:30   they're going to have good stock, they'll have it there. I haven't made my mind up yet.

01:39:35   This is going to be a real mess. It's interesting that they're saying this. They want the lines,

01:39:39   don't they? And they haven't wanted those for a while. I think it might be because this

01:39:44   phone has been, has had pretty mixed feelings, right? That they might look for in the press,

01:39:49   like the press have been giving it pretty mixed feelings before it's even come out.

01:39:54   So maybe they want to have a bunch of news reports with lines around the block again

01:39:58   for this one to show that people care.

01:40:00   I have one final suggestion.

01:40:03   Remember that you have I think 60 days to add Apple Care+ to your iPhone X.

01:40:11   So if you want to save an extra couple of seconds pre-ordering time, do not tap on the

01:40:18   add Apple Care button.

01:40:20   You can buy that later.

01:40:22   you can get the phone and then just go to the Apple store or go online and buy

01:40:25   AppleCare plus the day that you get the phone.

01:40:28   But when you're pre-ordering and you see the button that says add AppleCare,

01:40:32   if you want to save even an extra second or two seconds, uh, you can,

01:40:36   you can do that later.

01:40:38   Oh, and if you're on the iPhone upgrade program,

01:40:40   check if you can do the upgrade thing now you can like do this whole thing.

01:40:43   I mean the upgrade program,

01:40:45   people are probably going to get their phones before anybody else.

01:40:47   Cause you can literally go in, you do all of the checks that you need to do.

01:40:50   the year and choose the phone you want,

01:40:53   and it's ready for you, so do that.

01:40:55   - I mean, I think that basically puts you in line

01:40:57   like with the favorites, like what you're doing in advance

01:40:59   is like the pre-authorization stuff.

01:41:01   - Okay, but yeah, that's good,

01:41:02   'cause you don't wanna be doing that.

01:41:03   If you're waking up and doing that pre-authorization stuff,

01:41:06   you will not get one, you will not get one.

01:41:08   And that's why they're doing it,

01:41:09   and I'm really pleased that Apple are doing this

01:41:12   for those people, because I think that, you know,

01:41:14   if you're giving Apple money every month, right,

01:41:16   like you kind of, you know, this is the deal, right,

01:41:19   that you're gonna get the new phone.

01:41:20   So I think it's good that they're giving options for people to fill in all of the paperwork

01:41:25   They need to fill in ahead of time right before and none of us are on that program, right?

01:41:30   I cannot no no, no, there's no program in Italy at all. Thank you. I've thought about it

01:41:35   I might I haven't decided if I'm gonna do it for a phone in the future

01:41:40   It won't be for this one because of the process I'll need to go through

01:41:42   But I thought about it. I might do it one day

01:41:45   But this time I'm gonna be I'm gonna be buying outright. So

01:41:49   So, connected listeners, good luck. If you get a phone, only tweet at us if we got one

01:41:56   too, because otherwise we'll be sad. And we'll discuss next week as to how our plans actually

01:42:02   went. If you want to find our show notes for this week, relay.fm/connected/165. Thanks

01:42:06   again to our lovely sponsors, the fine folk at PDF, Penn from Smile, Pingdom, and Ting.

01:42:11   If you want to find Federico online, he's at maxstories.net, he's @Fettucci on Twitter,

01:42:17   Stephen is phytopixels.net he is @ismh and I am @imike. I am YKE. We'll be back next

01:42:24   time. Until then say goodbye guys. Adios.

01:42:31   Eek, eek, eek.