161: A Handbag? Face Cream? A Chainsaw?


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:06   From Reel AFM, this is Connected, episode 161. Today's show is brought to you by PDF pen from

00:00:12   Smile, Freshbooks, and Encapsula. My name is Myke Hurley. I am joined by Federico Vittucci. Ciao,

00:00:17   Federico. Hello Michael. Oh gosh. And Stephen Hackett. How are you, Stephen?

00:00:22   Hello Michael and Federico. I feel like I need to extend both of your names as the only way to

00:00:29   make this fair to me now. How would you extend my name? It's already the longest name.

00:00:33   Just give it like another two syllables. I don't know what yet though. I'm gonna work on that.

00:00:37   I'll report back. I'll come up with some new names for you both. Sure, okay. There are some

00:00:44   people in my life, I don't think they listen to the show but they'll be nameless just in case,

00:00:49   who are very southern and really struggle with Federico's name and sort of pronounce it if he's

00:00:56   if he's Fred Fred Rico I hear that one I hear Fred Rico a lot of people calling

00:01:02   Fred Rico Fred Fred Rico Fred Rico sounds like I don't know maybe he sounds

00:01:08   older maybe like he's a barber or some sort of handyman I don't know I like it

00:01:14   I also like the version that I've heard where people just condense a lot of the

00:01:18   foul sounds and just call him Fred Rico yeah which is also fun for me it's just

00:01:23   like I haven't got enough time to give him all of these vows so he's just

00:01:27   Frederico. Yeah I've always struggled to get people to pronounce or spell my name

00:01:34   correctly and it's all the most the more surprising to me when I reply to someone

00:01:39   in an email and there's clearly my name in the signature so they're looking at

00:01:43   my name and instead when they reply they say Frederico well it's like can you

00:01:49   even look at the name of the sender and the signature and instead it just... well it's

00:01:54   always funny because I think the German version it's Frederick so that's kind of similar I

00:02:01   guess.

00:02:02   It's English too.

00:02:03   I really don't mind.

00:02:04   You know Frederick.

00:02:05   Oh yeah?

00:02:06   So I have actually made the decision that you guys to make fun of me extend my name

00:02:13   So I think I've decided that I'm gonna shorten your names.

00:02:17   Steve and Fred is who I have with me today.

00:02:21   It's nice to see Steve and Fred.

00:02:23   That's brilliant, there we go, we've got it.

00:02:26   - We have some important real-time follow-up

00:02:27   from the chat room.

00:02:29   Kyle sent us a link, fredericochristmastrees.com,

00:02:33   so I'll go to this.

00:02:35   It is a Christmas tree company in his part of the world.

00:02:38   - Huh, this is a much fancier looking website

00:02:40   than what I was expecting based on the name of the company.

00:02:43   Yeah, they use Gmail for their corporate email address so they're not on that G Suite bandwagon.

00:02:49   Yeah and also the email address is "Utah Christmas trees" where does the Frederico

00:02:53   come into this?

00:02:54   Because no one can spell "Federico".

00:02:55   Oh Frederico, you can't even say it.

00:02:58   So, there we go.

00:02:59   Frederico.

00:03:00   I'm going to follow them on Facebook.

00:03:01   I'm just kidding.

00:03:02   I'm going to open their Instagram page and I'm going to leave a comment and say "Your

00:03:06   name is wrong".

00:03:07   They only have three pictures.

00:03:09   And one of them, the picture in the middle must be Frederico.

00:03:13   That's him!

00:03:14   Oh my god, it's you.

00:03:17   Look at that.

00:03:18   Standing next to a Christmas tree with a red jacket.

00:03:21   Yeah, well we found what you do during our, you know, Connected usually takes the week

00:03:25   between Christmas and New Years Off and now we know what you're doing that week.

00:03:29   This is my long lost Utah cousin.

00:03:31   I do not know what picture you're looking at right now.

00:03:34   We're on Instagram.

00:03:35   Oh, you're on their Instagram.

00:03:37   You just like went for that.

00:03:38   like no messing around. Oh yeah there you are look at you. Everybody go follow Frederico

00:03:46   Christmas trees on Instagram. Let's blow this one out of the water.

00:03:54   This company is gonna have a weird few days. They got a bunch of followers.

00:04:01   Be nice. Be nice. Just embrace the brand. I'm following you too.

00:04:07   Why don't we buy a couple of Christmas trees from this company in December?

00:04:11   There we go.

00:04:12   We'll do that.

00:04:13   Yeah.

00:04:14   And maybe we could end up on the testimonials page.

00:04:16   People love us.

00:04:17   We really love the trees.

00:04:18   Just a shame about the name.

00:04:20   For example, Ryan Wilkinson says, "I can't say enough good things.

00:04:24   Frederico's has the best trees in the country."

00:04:26   Hands down.

00:04:27   Hands down.

00:04:28   Hands down.

00:04:29   Hands down.

00:04:30   Yeah.

00:04:31   Even anonymous agrees.

00:04:32   If you scroll, we're very happy to see that there are many.

00:04:36   (laughing)

00:04:38   - Frederico's Christmas trees is the official

00:04:40   Christmas tree supplier of the anonymous group.

00:04:43   (laughing)

00:04:45   Oh no.

00:04:48   - Even hackers gotta celebrate the Christmas.

00:04:52   - I guess so, I guess so.

00:04:53   And they're very happy with the trees.

00:04:56   - This one testimony says,

00:04:57   this is our third tree from you this season.

00:04:59   We love the quality and freshness of your trees.

00:05:01   Are they eating the trees?

00:05:02   - Why do you eat three?

00:05:04   - Why does the freshness matter?

00:05:06   What I like about "This is our third" means they didn't buy three at one time.

00:05:10   They kept buying more?

00:05:12   Hmm.

00:05:13   Multiple times.

00:05:14   Well, Anonymous is a pretty big group, so I guess they've got a lot of places that they

00:05:18   have to cater for and not everybody knows everything about everyone, so it just keeps

00:05:24   building up.

00:05:26   So the guy's name is starting in 1988, which is the year when I was born, Russell Frederico

00:05:33   has been selling Christmas trees in Utah Valley.

00:05:36   - Steven, please give us some follow up.

00:05:42   - I think the show's over.

00:05:43   Just read the ads, just go home.

00:05:45   (laughing)

00:05:47   So, last week's show, I had asked the audience

00:05:54   and the two of you, the audience was way more helpful

00:05:57   than the two of you, by the way,

00:05:58   about iCloud family sharing.

00:06:02   we moved to Apple Music.

00:06:03   - How could we be helpful - I thought my wife

00:06:04   would enjoy it.

00:06:05   - when we'd never used it?

00:06:07   - I know, but the audience had,

00:06:09   so they were more helpful.

00:06:10   That's all I'm saying.

00:06:12   That's all I'm saying.

00:06:14   So I,

00:06:15   our situation I think is very similar to many people's

00:06:19   where we have an Apple ID that we share for purchasing,

00:06:22   and then my wife and I each have separate iCloud accounts,

00:06:25   and that purchasing is like a third email address.

00:06:28   And it turns out the like doing the iCloud family sharing stuff was pretty

00:06:33   straightforward. Um, I do have to thank Bradley chambers was very helpful.

00:06:36   I asked a lot of stupid questions and he had just gone through this with his

00:06:39   family and she was able to kind of show me some stuff.

00:06:41   So I have two links in the show notes,

00:06:43   one to like Apple's marketing page and one to a K base article that kind of

00:06:46   walks you through it.

00:06:47   You can totally do this where both my wife and I still have access to all of our

00:06:52   old purchases. We can buy things on our individual IDs.

00:06:55   We have our own separate music libraries.

00:06:58   And I did combine our iCloud storage.

00:07:01   So we were each paying for, I think, 200 gigs a month.

00:07:05   She was basically right at that limit.

00:07:08   And so I bumped it to two terabytes for the family.

00:07:10   And we share that now.

00:07:12   And honestly, there's some kind of back and forth a little bit.

00:07:15   You've got to go in and change settings everywhere.

00:07:16   But once it's up and running, it's been really smooth.

00:07:19   And so she has her Apple Music Library.

00:07:21   She has access to all of our 10 years of shared purchases.

00:07:25   and everything's great.

00:07:27   So totally worth the work.

00:07:29   I do think Apple could make,

00:07:33   it's not hard but it is complex.

00:07:35   There's a lot of different ways you can do this.

00:07:37   And I kinda wish Apple,

00:07:39   that there was more of hand holding I guess on their part

00:07:42   of walking a user through this.

00:07:43   But so far so good.

00:07:45   I still am really happy with Apple Music.

00:07:47   My wife is really enjoying it.

00:07:49   She had the unfortunate situation

00:07:51   where our main iTunes library is on the Drobo,

00:07:55   hooked up to the Mac Mini so she would like sync her phone with the Mac Mini

00:07:58   under the TV because she did very little music on her laptop because it has a

00:08:01   smaller SSD and now she can kind of have everything on her phone that she wants

00:08:05   regardless of what computer she's syncing to so so far so good in the

00:08:09   Hackett household. I'm pleased I'm pleased you finally came to some kind of

00:08:13   fix with all that stuff and yeah I'm sharing work for you because it seems

00:08:17   like a horror show when you just look at it on the face of it it seems like a

00:08:21   Yeah, you think to get started so I'm pleased I talked to David sparks about - he jumped in early

00:08:27   And I think he had a lot of heartache with it, but we're talking to kind of as I was doing it

00:08:32   He was like it's way better now like it's they've really

00:08:35   Really worked things out kind of the only

00:08:38   Regression I guess is that before when we were using a shared purchase ID

00:08:42   We could share in-app purchases and again like I'm just bypassing the whole like is that right or wrong conversation, but now

00:08:51   the way it's set up, we cannot share in-app purchases,

00:08:54   which is probably more fair to developers,

00:08:55   so I don't have a problem with that,

00:08:57   but that's really kind of the only main difference.

00:09:00   Other than that, like in practice,

00:09:02   everything just works the way it did,

00:09:05   except that we have a little more separation, so thumbs up.

00:09:08   - So iOS 11 has arrived.

00:09:14   I was gonna say it's come and gone, but it hasn't gone.

00:09:16   We're in that world now.

00:09:19   So Federico, we spoke a lot last week about your review

00:09:23   because you were publishing it.

00:09:24   And so just to kind of round that out,

00:09:26   we just kind of went to get an idea from you

00:09:28   as to how everything went.

00:09:29   Did you meet your expectations?

00:09:32   Were there any road bumps?

00:09:34   Like how did the review land with the world?

00:09:37   - Well, I didn't fully appreciate launch this year

00:09:42   because of some technical issues that we had.

00:09:46   there was a bug in the production environment on the public site that we didn't expect.

00:09:53   And so as we published the review and as thousands of people started coming in,

00:09:58   the site began to crash essentially and we later realized that the problem was a really nasty bug

00:10:05   related to caching in that basically to spare you the technical details,

00:10:10   the website was creating thousands of private caches and the concept of a

00:10:17   private cache is by itself useless because the whole idea of a caching

00:10:22   system is predicated on multiple people accessing the same cache. If that one person

00:10:27   decided they wanted to access it from a bunch of different computers they would have been fine.

00:10:31   For sure, for sure. So as you can probably imagine... We can laugh about it now, we can laugh now.

00:10:39   It was really really stressful and like I wasn't feeling physically well at all because

00:10:46   of all the stress.

00:10:48   I would agree like I had a small part this year to play in the work and it meant that

00:10:55   I was very plugged in with you and the team on the day and it was it was it was it was

00:11:02   real it was real tough it was difficult it was because it was like this thing that you'd

00:11:07   worked for so long and everyone was really behind you and then you couldn't

00:11:10   get to enjoy the day because you were just too busy putting out fires. It was a shame.

00:11:15   Yeah, and I was really upset because a launch day for me is the day when I get to celebrate

00:11:21   and when I get to say it's finally done, I can relax and enjoy the feedback.

00:11:26   And I miss that this time, at least in the first day.

00:11:32   The second day when we basically fixed the problem almost 9 hours later.

00:11:39   So that was problematic because a lot of the initial traffic went lost and even if we eventually

00:11:47   regained those numbers and now we're basically on around the same goal of last year.

00:11:54   It was really tough for me to accept that on launch day we're having so many issues.

00:11:59   On the second day I was able to fully appreciate all the feedback from readers and people who

00:12:05   were stumbling upon the review on the site, who were listening to the audiobook.

00:12:09   And so from the second day I started feeling better about it.

00:12:12   I apologize to everyone, you know, it's something that we should have tested beforehand and

00:12:18   we didn't because the main problem was once again we cut it a little too close to launch

00:12:23   day and I need to make sure that it doesn't happen again.

00:12:28   That said, in terms of numbers, it was worth it again, thankfully, to work on a project

00:12:36   as big as the review.

00:12:38   We were able to catch up fully over the following couple of days.

00:12:45   I'm happy with the results, I'm happy with the feedback, people seem to really appreciate

00:12:50   the review and the multiple extras that we released this time.

00:12:55   And I was also happy with the, you know, I told you guys, I think this is the most polished

00:12:58   review I've published to date.

00:13:01   And in fact, the only typo that was reported to me was a single image caption.

00:13:08   And that image caption was something that Ryan didn't proofread, of course.

00:13:13   So just one image caption and just really one typo, just knowledge spelled wrong.

00:13:18   So I'm really happy with that.

00:13:20   I'm really happy with that.

00:13:21   It's a great word to get wrong.

00:13:24   It's a great word to get wrong.

00:13:26   Just one typo in the entire review.

00:13:29   It's not a bad record.

00:13:32   That's not bad at all, my man.

00:13:34   So yeah, I would say aside from those first nine hours,

00:13:39   I'm happy that it's done.

00:13:41   And I'm also exhausted.

00:13:43   I don't want to think about next year right now.

00:13:46   But I'm not going to do it anyway.

00:13:48   And I got a bunch of lessons that I've learned,

00:13:51   things that I want to change, want to do better next year. So we'll see how it goes.

00:13:57   I remember on the show last week I mentioned that there are a couple of

00:14:03   differences. We were talking about a bunch of differences, right, that there

00:14:06   are in the audiobook version to the written review. I've had a couple of

00:14:12   people contact me about here and there. They've noticed one or two things. Nobody

00:14:16   has reported to me the three differences that I can think of. I've had them all

00:14:20   I've had them all told to me independently, but not one person has come along with all

00:14:25   three of them, so the five mic points are still out in the world.

00:14:29   But we are able to award one mic point to Benjamin Mayo, who found the Rickroll that

00:14:35   Federico had hidden inside of the review, and I will include a link in the show notes

00:14:40   if you want to find it yourself.

00:14:42   But congratulations, Benjamin, you are the recipient of one mic point.

00:14:49   Yeah, just today I saw that someone else on Twitter reported the sound effect that you

00:14:58   put in when you mentioned...

00:15:00   Yeah, I've had a few people mention that, I've had some people mention a couple of the

00:15:04   things that I changed, but I haven't had anybody come to me with a list of all three yet.

00:15:09   So still up for grabs, a whole five mic points.

00:15:13   Five mic points still to be assigned.

00:15:15   Alright, okay.

00:15:17   about some real achievement. We've been talking throughout the whole month, I guess this is

00:15:22   the last time we're going to talk about this from a perspective of please give money, to

00:15:27   the St Jude fundraiser that we've been talking about. And Stephen, would you like to share

00:15:32   with our audience the current grand total?

00:15:35   The current total is $32,313.

00:15:38   Wow.

00:15:39   Which is incredible.

00:15:45   So a big thanks to our friends at ATP.

00:15:48   They had a really nice segment at the top of their show last week about this.

00:15:53   They were pushing people, I think at the time, to break either 20 or 25,000.

00:15:59   We've blown way past that now.

00:16:02   It's incredible.

00:16:03   I mean, my wife and I are just speechless.

00:16:07   The community that we're a part of, for all the jokes and all the infighting about should

00:16:11   it be called a review or should it be called a walkthrough, like all that stuff is just

00:16:14   silly, but people, we have a lot of good people in our community who really care about things

00:16:20   that are important and it's just, it's incredible. So thank you if you've donated and if you

00:16:26   haven't there's still time, there'll be a link in the show notes.

00:16:29   Then next week we can celebrate the entire amount, right? Because it will be done? Does

00:16:34   it end this week? The fundraiser?

00:16:37   So the fundraisers are open through December when the kids do their kids marathon, but

00:16:42   My push is in September to coincide with the National Childhood Cancer Awareness Month.

00:16:47   So I'll talk about it here and there, but September is really my focus on it.

00:16:51   So next week we'll provide kind of like the last thank you and then we may mention it

00:16:56   towards the end of the year maybe.

00:16:57   Yeah.

00:16:58   But yeah, this is wonderful.

00:16:59   Absolutely wonderful.

00:17:01   Thank you to ATP for what they did and thank you to everybody who has donated.

00:17:07   It's amazing.

00:17:08   Before we go before our first break, we need to start doing this again. Question! Does

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00:18:47   I mentioned iOS 11.

00:18:49   PDF/Pen 3 for iOS is out and it has full file support and I love it.

00:18:54   So I open it now and I can just go into Dropbox, make the additions that I need and it does

00:18:59   the federal because it could save in place is that what that's called when

00:19:02   like you can update a file and it stays as it is called opening place yeah yeah

00:19:07   and I love it right like I was fine with the way I was doing it before like

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00:19:35   of this show and Relay FM.

00:19:37   So talking about the file stuff Federico,

00:19:42   a couple of things on that I guess.

00:19:44   One Dropbox got fully updated,

00:19:47   there was a bit of a delay, right?

00:19:49   But it did get fully updated and that's there now.

00:19:51   What are your thoughts on this?

00:19:54   Does it work as you expected it to?

00:19:57   Like how do you feel about Dropbox file provider stuff?

00:20:00   - Well, as I expected, there are still a bunch of bugs

00:20:04   that I'm surprised they actually made it

00:20:07   to the public version of iOS.

00:20:09   I've seen a lot of people with all kinds of layout issues,

00:20:14   and especially, you know, the problem with caching,

00:20:18   because file provider extensions, they don't,

00:20:22   they're not allocated a lot of memory by the system.

00:20:25   So it's very easy to run into the problem

00:20:26   of you're loading a large file

00:20:28   or a folder containing thousands of files

00:20:32   and the file provider inside of the Files app

00:20:35   displays a content unavailable message

00:20:37   because it cannot load the entire contents

00:20:40   of the folder structure.

00:20:41   And also, and I'm surprised

00:20:45   that so many people use this feature,

00:20:48   but if you keep the passcode lock,

00:20:51   in the Dropbox app, you will have to disable that

00:20:56   if you want to use the file provider extension

00:20:59   because the files app, or I don't know,

00:21:01   I'm pretty sure that it's the files app,

00:21:04   but anyway, it doesn't currently support

00:21:06   having a passcode lock and the Dropbox extension.

00:21:09   - Yeah, I was frustrated about that.

00:21:12   I mean, 'cause I did it and I know it's kind of just like,

00:21:14   well, if they're in the device, et cetera, et cetera,

00:21:17   et cetera, but like there's so much stuff

00:21:18   in my Dropbox account, just having that also

00:21:21   with touch ID is just, I don't know,

00:21:22   it just felt like a good thing.

00:21:24   But I of course have it off now

00:21:25   because I wanna be able to use the Files app.

00:21:28   So I have no more passcode.

00:21:30   - Yeah, and I was surprised that so many people

00:21:33   tweeted at me with that problem.

00:21:37   But overall, I would say it works pretty well.

00:21:39   - I have had no problems like at all.

00:21:41   I've been perfectly fine with it.

00:21:43   - Aside from the passcode and those layout issues

00:21:47   and the, I think it's not a common problem.

00:21:51   I've just seen a few people mention it.

00:21:53   Overall for me, it's been working well.

00:21:55   I was able to, for example, to open in place a document

00:21:58   from the Dropbox file provider into,

00:22:01   I think I was testing one writer.

00:22:03   And so I made an edit to a text file

00:22:05   that I picked from the file extension.

00:22:09   And that modification showed up on my iPhone

00:22:11   and my MacBook without having to do any kind of manual saving

00:22:16   or reopen the Dropbox app.

00:22:19   just sort of, you know, the extension in the Files app took care of keeping track of changes,

00:22:25   uploading changes, and, you know, making that new version propagate across devices.

00:22:30   Because that's what you seemed quite worried about last week, that that stuff didn't work.

00:22:33   But like, I agree with you, I've not even been thinking about it, right? Like,

00:22:36   my plan was just to treat this as I want it to work and see if it does. And it does.

00:22:43   You know what I mean? Like, I didn't want to be like, tiptoeing around it and, you know, checking,

00:22:47   all this open is open like I've just been using the files that stuff as I want and I know people

00:22:52   are putting files into folders and I'm able to just open them like it's working surprisingly well

00:22:57   yeah I've been really really happy with it and it is a fantastic addition for iOS like I'm really

00:23:05   excited about it and like the favorites thing I really like you know I have a couple of file

00:23:09   folders that are buried within sub menus because I share folders with Steven so there are like just

00:23:14   layers upon layers of subfolders, because I know that Steven is very organized.

00:23:20   But sometimes I want to be able to get to a folder and now I can bring it out into the

00:23:23   favorites as if it's like on the Finder and I love that.

00:23:26   It's very good.

00:23:27   Yeah, I was very glad to see that they brought that idea over from Finders.

00:23:31   Done in its own way here, but it definitely makes navigating much faster.

00:23:36   That was the problem with the old Dropbox app.

00:23:38   There really wasn't much of a concept of that.

00:23:41   You spend your entire life going through…

00:23:42   Tapping through folders.

00:23:43   Yeah, and so now I'm really really happy about that. So that's a really great addition just for general like just ease of use

00:23:50   So yeah, really really good

00:23:52   But there is some weirdness in files and a lot of it seems to be springing from Google Drive

00:23:57   Yeah, so a few months ago as I was writing my files chapter. I

00:24:04   Posted a couple of tweets noting this problem in iOS 11 that despite the addition of a files app

00:24:11   there is still no good way to deal with apps that automatically open a certain file type.

00:24:21   So on the Mac, if you want to open a TXT file in something else that is not text edit,

00:24:29   you can right-click on the file and you can select the apps that you prefer to open that extension.

00:24:34   That is not possible on iOS and it's still not possible in iOS 11.

00:24:38   And despite the fact that Apple is now, you know, they fully support the same UTI based system that has worked on the Mac for decades.

00:24:48   There still is this weird inconsistency of apps are capable of declaring a certain UTI and there's no user controls to stop this or to manage this.

00:25:02   And case in point, Google Drive is doing some strange things with the file types that the Google Drive app, so not Google Docs, not Google Sheets, but the Google Drive app.

00:25:14   I received dozens of questions from readers asking me why is it that every single time I tap on files into the Files app and instead of being shown like a quick look preview, I jump straight into the Google Drive app.

00:25:37   And I thought, well, that's weird.

00:25:39   You know, why would Google Drive open TXC files and, you know, even Microsoft Office documents?

00:25:46   And I got this question over and over over the past week, and I just couldn't figure it out.

00:25:51   And yesterday, I tweeted about this problem again, and I got a bunch of interesting replies.

00:25:56   So apparently, the Google Drive app

00:25:59   has the UTI

00:26:01   set to public.data, which is just the most generic description of

00:26:07   of the files that you're able to receive.

00:26:10   It's not like saying, well, I can receive TXT

00:26:13   and I can receive Word documents and I can receive PDFs.

00:26:17   It just, I can receive any data.

00:26:19   That's really the most generic UTI, public.data.

00:26:24   It means that, yes, any file that you tap,

00:26:27   unless there's any other,

00:26:29   unless other apps are taking care of those documents

00:26:33   as the owners of those documents,

00:26:35   if I tap on a MindNode file it will go into the MindNode app, but for more common file types like

00:26:43   txt or docx they open directly into Google Drive. And obviously declaring public data as an UTI is

00:26:51   not the most user-friendly approach on iOS. And I received this tweet from a member of the Microsoft

00:26:59   Office for iOS team that they reported to Apple this problem of we have folks saving

00:27:07   Word and Excel and PowerPoint documents into files and when they tap those documents they

00:27:15   jump into Google Drive instead of Microsoft Office. Now I wonder here who's at fault because for sure

00:27:25   Apple should come up with a new system that allows users to either set defaults or with a better preview.

00:27:34   I think it's kind of absurd that when you tap on a document instead of being shown a preview, you jump straight into an app.

00:27:42   I would much rather see a quick look preview for every document and inside that quick look preview have some shortcuts.

00:27:50   shortcuts that say well you can open in place this document into this and you know these and these and these you like I have a

00:27:57   list of compatible apps that can open the document instead right now if you all if you tap on this file on these documents and

00:28:05   if you have Google Drive installed chances are really high that you're gonna jump into Google Drive and import that document so

00:28:12   for sure I think Apple should have a better system. Also Microsoft should support open in place which I don't think they do

00:28:19   think they do because otherwise I believe the system would automatically

00:28:23   jump into Word and Excel and PowerPoint. I think fault is on all sides of that

00:28:28   right like yes and also like there's a question of I think it's easy in this

00:28:34   situation to look at what's going on here and like raise an eyebrow at Google

00:28:39   and be like what you doing but then at the same time this application is a

00:28:44   a storage app. It can take every type of file. That's why it's tricky because it's like,

00:28:53   "Okay, Google, you should maybe be a little bit more conscious of what you're doing here."

00:28:57   But the use case that they are putting forward is misguided but maybe not wrong. In theory,

00:29:05   you can put anything in there. But I guess the argument is, and I agree with it, is,

00:29:11   Unless it's already in Google Drive, how about you just wait until I save it there?

00:29:15   I don't think it's the right thing to do. And my hope would be that

00:29:19   they implemented this, thought that they were doing the right thing, and it isn't until it's kind of out in the wild that people recognize that it's a problem, and then hopefully it will be rectified.

00:29:28   But I would say that if the fix for Microsoft is they need to support OpenInPlace, then they should be supporting OpenInPlace anyway, because that is vastly better.

00:29:36   Yeah, exactly. So I think this problem, this specific problem with Google Drive and Microsoft and Files will be fixed in the near future.

00:29:46   But my overall sentiment here is that we should have a better system feature by Apple to deal with this stuff.

00:29:57   There should be a way, and I'm not going to argue in favor of setting defaults for Safari and Mail and Messages.

00:30:05   We've been over this and I don't think it'll ever happen, but you know.

00:30:09   I think really Apple should make Quick Look Preview the default screen that you see when you tap on a file.

00:30:17   When you use the Finder and you select a file, you see a Quick Look Preview in the column view.

00:30:22   It doesn't make sense to just tap on a file and you leave the files up and you jump into god knows what.

00:30:28   You should see a Quick Look Preview by default and there should be a new interface that shows you all the compatible options.

00:30:35   So imagine if I tap on a Word document, I'm shown a Quick Look Preview for the document and a list of...

00:30:41   like this document is best opened with Microsoft Word but if you want you can also open this document with these apps.

00:30:49   And there's like a list of app names and app icons, and I can choose from them.

00:30:54   And maybe I can set the default one, like I can flip a switch and say every single

00:30:58   time I want to jump into Google Drive.

00:31:00   Yes.

00:31:01   I think it's, you know, Apple is sort of treating us as we don't understand how

00:31:09   dealing with the document into multiple apps works.

00:31:13   But I mean, the same company that asks us to perform drag and drop with multiple hands or use the new app switcher on the iPad or use a bunch of keyboard shortcuts.

00:31:25   I think we can deal with opening documents into different applications.

00:31:29   We just need better controls for them.

00:31:31   I do feel that looking at what we've got here was this was a genuine attempt from them to create a simple system.

00:31:37   And really, we weren't going to know this was a problem until everybody started supporting it.

00:31:43   So, you know, I see it's like a what are we going to get in later versions of iOS

00:31:47   and will this fix it?

00:31:49   And I hope that the answer is yes.

00:31:51   You know, like I'm still the mindset, the like company

00:31:53   that would introduce files would make changes like that

00:31:56   because you already introduced this app called Files,

00:31:59   which is incredibly nerdy and specific, right?

00:32:03   Like it's you know, it already is a pretty power.

00:32:06   It's like a power user feature.

00:32:07   So I would I would hope to see changes like that.

00:32:10   Yeah, exactly.

00:32:10   It just doesn't feel like the same company that on one hand they do files and keyboard

00:32:15   shortcuts and iPad updates and then when you tap on a file it just jumps out of the app

00:32:20   and God knows where it goes.

00:32:22   We didn't know this was happening until these apps were out there.

00:32:28   You can try and envision it however you want but maybe you just think of the utopia where

00:32:32   everybody just tries to support the things that they should be supporting but it's not

00:32:36   going to work like that when you make these things public to the world.

00:32:39   I'm still disappointed they didn't see that coming.

00:32:41   But, I don't know.

00:32:43   - Yeah, yeah, I know.

00:32:44   But these things happen.

00:32:46   You spent some time with the iPhone 8 in a store, right?

00:32:49   - I did, so I went to the Apple store last week,

00:32:52   picked up my Apple Watch,

00:32:53   which we're just gonna talk about in a little while.

00:32:55   And as I like to do, spent some time with the new phones.

00:32:59   Of course, they're tethered to the desk, right?

00:33:01   It's not like a real serious look at it.

00:33:03   I'm like--

00:33:04   - Oh, they're still tethered to the desk?

00:33:05   - Yeah, they are, yep.

00:33:06   - Huh, okay.

00:33:08   little safety thing.

00:33:09   So not really like what Jason's doing,

00:33:12   upgrade yesterday you guys spoke about,

00:33:14   he's got review units.

00:33:15   It's not that, it's just sort of impressions.

00:33:18   I was really surprised off the bat

00:33:21   how different these phones look and feel.

00:33:24   The glass back totally changes them.

00:33:26   They feel great, they're grippy.

00:33:28   They are a little bit heavier, they feel denser,

00:33:30   I think due to that glass, which is nice.

00:33:33   And I've gotta say for the first time,

00:33:36   maybe ever, or maybe since like the 3G and 3GS,

00:33:39   I think the white back looks the best.

00:33:42   The space gray, especially coming from the matte black

00:33:46   iPhone 7 looks just really kind of washed out

00:33:49   and the gold is just, it's beautiful, it's just not for me.

00:33:53   So I think silver wins this time for me,

00:33:56   which I did not expect. - Interesting.

00:33:58   So what, is that blown all your options away for the X?

00:34:03   - I think I'm gonna do the white X.

00:34:04   - Interesting.

00:34:05   the front is still black. If I were going to go buy an eight or eight plus I would do

00:34:09   space gray for the black cover glass. But the the silver looks really nice on the back,

00:34:16   sort of classy like classic Apple like it's white and crisp. And the the space gray is

00:34:21   just sort of sort of muted. This comes up every year people always like lay out all

00:34:25   their space gray products. Like Apple doesn't know what space gray means. It's just like,

00:34:31   black but not white if it's somewhere in the middle we call it space gray there's

00:34:35   lots of variations this is yet another variation on space gray but what can you

00:34:40   do you know yeah I mean space gray is more of a state of mind yeah color

00:34:44   really I think that's I think that's probably true what about the gold so the

00:34:49   gold is is really nice it's very very classy looking so it is not the old gold

00:34:56   It's not the old rose gold. It's I'm not even sure it's in between them. It feels really different

00:35:03   so the the the rail the aluminum rail around the phone is much more vibrant and then the back glass is

00:35:09   It's not really a beige, but it's it's a like sort of a sandy gold color

00:35:14   I put a picture on Instagram will put a link in the show notes. It's it's really nice

00:35:19   It's like I said, it's not for me, but none of the gold phones have ever been for me

00:35:23   But I think it will do very well.

00:35:25   Of people in the store looking at the iPhone 8 and 8 Plus,

00:35:29   most people were around the gold

00:35:31   'cause they wanted to see,

00:35:33   I think they wanted to see how it differed

00:35:34   from the previous ones.

00:35:36   So yeah, there you go.

00:35:39   Silver wins for me this round.

00:35:41   - How was the store?

00:35:44   I mean, you were in a store on an iPhone launch day.

00:35:47   Was it crazy in there?

00:35:50   - It was not crazy.

00:35:52   So I was surprised at, I mean it was definitely busy

00:35:57   and it was definitely, I went like in the middle of the day,

00:36:00   like 11 a.m. or something.

00:36:01   Definitely busier than it would be at 11 o'clock

00:36:04   on a weekday normally, but there was no line at the door.

00:36:09   There was not really even a line for the pickup.

00:36:12   I kind of just walked in and got helped.

00:36:15   I spoke to a couple people working and they were like,

00:36:18   yeah, it's quiet for an iPhone launch,

00:36:20   but I think there are two things about that.

00:36:23   A, people who buy iPhones on day one

00:36:26   are gonna buy the 10, as a general rule.

00:36:30   And so you could see where the launch of the 8

00:36:33   will be slower, but I think long term,

00:36:34   the 8 and 8 Plus will sell just fine.

00:36:36   I think lots of people are gonna upgrade to them.

00:36:38   - Yeah, I've seen a lot of people

00:36:40   that I follow on Twitter with the 8s,

00:36:42   like maybe more than I expected.

00:36:44   - Yeah, in fact, I said a couple weeks ago

00:36:47   or last week on the show,

00:36:48   and I regretted it as soon as I said it,

00:36:49   and I got some email about it,

00:36:50   And I said that people who listen to the server

00:36:55   will be buying the 10.

00:36:56   Like clearly that's not a hard and fast rule.

00:36:58   The 10 is a lot of money, right?

00:37:00   All those people were mad at me, I'm sorry.

00:37:02   But what was surprising at the Apple Store

00:37:06   is how many people were there for the Apple TV 4K.

00:37:09   The couple employees I spoke to said that

00:37:11   that was like a steady stream all day

00:37:13   of people looking for the new Apple TV

00:37:16   and that they were selling really well,

00:37:18   way above what the Apple TV does on a normal day.

00:37:22   Which I think, you know, it's not surprising,

00:37:24   a lot of people who are interested in this stuff

00:37:26   have upgraded to 4K televisions, and this is,

00:37:29   there's some pros and cons to the Apple TV

00:37:30   we're gonna talk about later, but overall it's a big win,

00:37:33   and so that makes a lot of sense to me

00:37:35   that people were just like coming in all day

00:37:36   to pick up Apple TVs.

00:37:38   And they said that the watch, you know,

00:37:41   was busy for the watch day,

00:37:42   that most people were buying the LTE.

00:37:44   Again, I think the type of people who buy an Apple watch

00:37:47   day one or as a general rule not hard and fast rule be more interested in the

00:37:52   LTE because that's sort of the reason to upgrade this year so not super

00:37:56   surprising that the LTE watches are moving in fact that I was I got I kind

00:38:01   of walked in with a couple other people just we kind of got to the door at the

00:38:04   same time and they were all there for personal pickup and the other two of

00:38:08   them were LTE watches and one person was an iPhone 8 plus so a little group of

00:38:14   people I was with that was definitely the case but overall subdued for an

00:38:18   iPhone launch. I would expect that that store will be much busier when it

00:38:22   whenever it is November 3rd when the iPhone X comes out but I don't think I

00:38:27   think it's unwise at this point to judge the iPhone 8 and 8 plus on the launch

00:38:33   day like feedback because again the people who pre-order iPhones may be

00:38:39   more inclined to order the new one the X and you know what's interesting I

00:38:44   was thinking about this when I was in the store, a couple of years ago Apple

00:38:47   stopped reporting launch weekend sales for the iPhone. I think maybe with the

00:38:55   6s was the last time they did that maybe even the 6 where they just said in a

00:39:00   quarterly statement hey we're not gonna we're not gonna share that number

00:39:03   anymore and the reason they said was that that number is unfair because of

00:39:06   supply and demand right that if you sell out of everything then that number is

00:39:10   is artificially capped which is I can see but I can also see that this they

00:39:15   knew this was coming you know that they were gonna have they're gonna have a

00:39:19   dual phone launch and maybe it was a little bit of a safety net that if they're

00:39:24   not out at the same time so you know we're not gonna know how the 8 and 8

00:39:30   plus are doing until the quarterly call but my guess is that long term over the

00:39:34   year they're gonna do fine so even then we're probably never gonna know because

00:39:39   because they won't break down the iPhone sales.

00:39:41   - No, no, it'll be up to Horace and other analysts

00:39:45   to sort of look through the ASP and kind of figure it out.

00:39:48   People smarter than me who are better at Excel than I am.

00:39:51   - All right, we should talk about the Apple Watch, right?

00:39:53   We both got them?

00:39:54   - Yeah, I think so.

00:39:55   - Federico's off there in an Apple Watch now,

00:39:58   we'll talk about that in a minute.

00:40:00   - So I will say real quickly that I got a lot of questions

00:40:02   online about is the 10 on demo at the sale

00:40:05   and the answer at the store, and the answer is no.

00:40:08   there are no iPhone 10s anywhere in the store.

00:40:11   I didn't, at least when I was there,

00:40:13   it wasn't even on, so my store has the new big screen

00:40:16   in the back that the new stores have.

00:40:18   No iPhone 10 on that even.

00:40:20   A couple people were asking about it.

00:40:22   One person kind of at the same table I was asked

00:40:25   if it was on demo.

00:40:26   So you cannot go see an iPhone 10 in store yet.

00:40:30   My guess is it'll be like every other iPhone

00:40:32   and it will be available in store

00:40:33   if you'd look at on demo starting on November 3rd.

00:40:36   But right now if you go to an Apple store,

00:40:37   all you'll see is the 8 and 8 Plus.

00:40:40   - So I was in an Apple store last Thursday,

00:40:42   so the day before the products launched in London,

00:40:45   and they had posters for the 10,

00:40:47   like all of the posters for the 10.

00:40:49   Which I remember I looked at this once before,

00:40:52   I can't remember what it was,

00:40:53   I think it was when the Apple Watch came out,

00:40:54   or there was a time I went to the store

00:40:56   and they had just all posters for unreleased products,

00:40:58   like products that weren't coming out for like weeks.

00:41:01   And it's just always funny to see that,

00:41:03   because it's like there's, by the iPhone table,

00:41:05   you've got all the new iPhones,

00:41:07   and then there's just this like other one just hovering over them right like you can't touch me

00:41:13   i'm just a picture like it's very strange but yeah they're all there i think it was the apple watch

00:41:18   actually they had pictures of the apple watch um in the stores when the iphones came out even though

00:41:23   the apple watch didn't ship for like a month or something after that so i find that sort of stuff

00:41:28   peculiar choices to make but they're the choices that they make this episode is brought to you by

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00:43:28   Alright so Apple Watch Series 3.

00:43:31   Did yours show up?

00:43:32   I know you had some difficulties.

00:43:33   Yeah, yeah, I mean I just had some normal delivery problems, you know, which tends to

00:43:40   happen to basically every product that I ever have delivered to me.

00:43:44   They just never come on the day that they're supposed to, but I spoke to the delivery people

00:43:49   and they were able to get it to me the next day, so yeah, I've had mine since Saturday.

00:43:54   you have the aluminum the gray is that right? Yeah space gray 42 millimeter

00:44:00   series 3 with the olive sport band because that was the one that it came

00:44:04   with sport loop I should say the new one. Sport loop how was I want to talk about

00:44:08   that band so this is a new band for this year it's cool I haven't I just saw one

00:44:15   I didn't try one on what is it how is it shaping up? If the Milanese loop and

00:44:20   and the nylon band got drunk at a party.

00:44:25   - Oh no.

00:44:26   - The result would be the sport loop.

00:44:31   'Cause it sits weirdly in between them.

00:44:34   So it is a very similar idea to the Milanese loop

00:44:37   in that it is one piece of material

00:44:40   that is threaded through on both sides

00:44:43   and then you adjust it by just pulling and fastening

00:44:46   and it fastens by magnets, right?

00:44:47   but like it's infinitely adjustable to any degree

00:44:50   because all you're doing is just tightening it

00:44:52   around your wrist.

00:44:53   So it's like that, but it's a nylon material

00:44:55   and it secures by a hook and loop mechanism.

00:45:00   Because it's not Velcro.

00:45:03   - It's basically not Velcro.

00:45:05   - But it isn't Velcro.

00:45:06   It seems different to anything that I've used before.

00:45:11   And I'm gonna include a link in the show notes

00:45:13   to Micah Sargent, he's one of the fantastic hosts of Clockwise and Disruption on relay

00:45:19   FM. He also works for iMore and he posted a really good post about this loop and he

00:45:24   took some pictures, like some macro shots of it and it's like this really advanced looking

00:45:29   hook and loop system. Like it's like literal little hooks, it's very cool. I just put some

00:45:34   pictures in there and he goes into a lot of detail about this. But I would say like, okay

00:45:38   Okay so here is the sound right? That's what it sounds like. It is like velcro but way

00:45:48   less noisy, way easier to move around. It's secure but it's not like I'm having to get

00:45:54   help to take my watch off every day. It's really easy to move and it's just like velcro

00:46:01   just in the hook and loop system. It's just in these little strips. It's not the entire

00:46:05   thing because then it would be almost impossible to get off. I really really like it. The band

00:46:11   is comfortable. Something that I had to get used to and I've gotten used to it is the

00:46:15   thickness because obviously it doubles over itself so it's different to any other watch

00:46:20   band that I've used because it gets thicker on one side because I've never worn one of

00:46:25   the Milanese or anything like that. But I really like this band a lot. It's similar

00:46:30   to the nylon that they've used but it's softer. It's got a kind of a more soft feel and I

00:46:35   I guess this is to help with the hooking and the looping. So yeah I'm really

00:46:39   pleased with it. There are some other colors that are better than the one that

00:46:42   I have and so I'm probably gonna invest in maybe the black one because the black

00:46:47   one is deceiving. The black one has a bunch of color in it which I think looks

00:46:52   really cool. I'm not 100% sure why they call it black because it's got like

00:46:56   little rainbow thread in it which looks kind of cool so that's probably gonna be

00:47:00   the one that I get although the pink one is also pretty good looking too.

00:47:05   So yeah, big fan of that, big thumbs up from me.

00:47:09   - I ordered the 42 millimeter stainless steel

00:47:13   and it came with a off white sport band

00:47:17   which I quickly replaced for my regular white sport band.

00:47:22   I had the original Apple Watch in stainless steel.

00:47:25   My Series 2 was a Nike Plus aluminum,

00:47:28   the dark like you've got

00:47:30   and I decided to go back to the stainless steel.

00:47:34   It is heavier, but I love the way it looks.

00:47:37   I like the way that it ages.

00:47:39   Stainless steel kind of gets all nicked up

00:47:40   and I like the way it looks over time.

00:47:44   And I feel like the red Digital Crown looks,

00:47:49   it really looks the best on the white ceramic,

00:47:51   but I'm not spending $1,300 on an Apple Watch.

00:47:53   So the second best place it looks, I think,

00:47:56   to me, to my eye, is the stainless steel.

00:47:59   So I've been happy to be back in that world.

00:48:02   I had forgotten that the Taptics, the Taptic motor isn't as pronounced I guess on the stainless

00:48:10   steel I think because the watch is heavier it's got more to move and so I turned back

00:48:15   on the, what do they call it?

00:48:18   Prominent?

00:48:19   Yeah the prominent haptic.

00:48:20   I actually had to turn that off.

00:48:23   I think the Taptic motor is stronger in the Series 3 in the aluminium.

00:48:27   I've always had the prominent haptics on but I feel like my arm is shaking off the table

00:48:32   every time one of those things. It is incredibly strong, so I have actually turned it off.

00:48:38   And I don't know if maybe just like over time my Taptic motor got weaker, but I had it on,

00:48:44   I turned it on as I had it before, and I was like "wow that is way stronger" so I've actually

00:48:48   turned the prominent one off. I might turn it back on, but for now I'm leaving it off

00:48:54   I think and seeing how I go without it. I mean I don't feel like I'm missing anything.

00:48:59   The Red Crown I will say, I don't see it.

00:49:05   I wear my watch with the digital crown on the right hand side when I look at the watch

00:49:09   face and my left arm.

00:49:12   So the crown is very rarely in my vision, the red part of it.

00:49:19   So I kind of don't care about it now because I don't see it.

00:49:22   And I didn't hate it before.

00:49:24   I don't love it, but I'm kind of okay with it because honestly I never see it.

00:49:32   I kind of feel the same way.

00:49:34   I don't see it.

00:49:36   I wear mine the same way you do.

00:49:39   I do feel like I've got one band, I have like, they don't make it anymore, but they used

00:49:43   to make a sport band in like Hunter Safety Orange, which I love that band.

00:49:49   That band does not look good with the red.

00:49:52   - You know, my other ones, I've got this white one,

00:49:54   I've got a black one, I've got a black Nike Plus one.

00:49:58   I have the black and gray nylon one.

00:50:01   All those are fine, but some of the colored sport bands

00:50:04   I think you may have a problem with.

00:50:05   But like you said, I don't see it very often.

00:50:07   I do feel, like my problems with it are more sort of,

00:50:12   I just don't care for the little indication

00:50:17   that I bought the LTE one.

00:50:19   Like that's all it is.

00:50:20   It's not functional. - Yeah, I don't really know

00:50:21   why they chose red either.

00:50:24   - So red, I'm not gonna get too far into the details

00:50:28   'cause I've read this a couple days ago,

00:50:29   but my understanding is that red has been used

00:50:32   on high-end watches as a status symbol

00:50:36   or as an indication of a special edition

00:50:39   or some sort of fancy option over time.

00:50:44   That's sort of a mark in the watch world.

00:50:48   and maybe Apple's just trying to crib that a little bit

00:50:51   and sort of step into that world.

00:50:53   But you know, it's fine.

00:50:55   It's not a deal breaker, like it's weird, right?

00:50:58   I wouldn't be shocked if at some point

00:51:00   it just quietly goes away and the Series 4

00:51:03   either goes back to the black or gives it an option.

00:51:06   I just don't like that it,

00:51:08   if you know what you're looking for,

00:51:09   it stands out that it's an LTE watch.

00:51:11   And I just don't like that status attachment to it,

00:51:15   but it's not a big deal.

00:51:17   Overall though, I've been very happy with the watch.

00:51:22   The setup was incredibly fast to move my backup to it.

00:51:28   WatchOS 4 does this clever thing like iOS does

00:51:31   where it does your restore and then it moves your apps

00:51:33   over in the background.

00:51:34   So like, the restore for backup took like seven minutes

00:51:37   on my watch and then it took, you know,

00:51:40   maybe another 25 minutes for all the apps to move over

00:51:42   and like slowly like my third party complications

00:51:44   just started showing up again.

00:51:46   but that all went really smoothly.

00:51:50   And it really is incredible how much faster this watch is

00:51:55   than even the series two.

00:51:56   I mean, side by side, it feels like when we went

00:51:59   from the original to series one and two,

00:52:02   it feels like that again to me.

00:52:04   It really is noticeably faster.

00:52:07   - I'm just jealous right now.

00:52:09   Like I really want to get this watch.

00:52:13   - Yeah, I'm sorry Federico.

00:52:15   I know you're being left out of this and there's only really more to talk about so like you

00:52:19   know maybe we can just maybe you can live vicariously through us I'm not sure.

00:52:25   It's fine I'm really curious to know how it works I just thought it was funny that this

00:52:30   morning I got an email from the Italian Apple store saying hey come check out the new Apple

00:52:36   watch and it's like ahhh why are you sending me this email right now I really want to buy

00:52:41   cellular version which you don't have.

00:52:43   Yeah, I want to know how it works, so please continue.

00:52:47   Don't mind me.

00:52:49   Yeah, so I can speak to my experience in setting it up.

00:52:53   I have an AT&T account and

00:52:57   I go, you know, set up the watch in the watch app in the setup.

00:53:01   It says "Hey, do you want to set up LTE?" You can totally skip it. So you can buy this watch

00:53:05   if it's available in your country, if you're not in Federico, and

00:53:09   just enable LTE later like you can on an iPad which is pretty cool that you're

00:53:14   not set you don't have to do it during setup but I wanted to do it it loaded a

00:53:20   in that browser it brought me to the AT&T website there is no way to enter my

00:53:26   one password information which was annoying signed into the AT&T mobile

00:53:30   website finally and basically it said hey it's ten bucks a month to add this

00:53:35   to your plan via what AT&T calls a number sync which is I think just their

00:53:38   brand of the watch and phone number, the watch and the iPhone share of phone

00:53:44   numbers. It was ten bucks a month to add to my plan. Of course it gave me the

00:53:47   opportunity to review my plan and I didn't change anything else. It took just a

00:53:51   couple of minutes. You know I hit save on that. The in-app browser went away and I

00:53:56   got an email and a text from AT&T maybe like two or three minutes later saying

00:54:01   that it was finished. It was very seamless to get it set up and added to

00:54:05   my account. What about you Myke? Was it pretty similar for you?

00:54:08   Pretty much the exact same experience, but I was surprised by the deal that I was given.

00:54:14   There's only one network in the UK that is supporting the Series 3 of LTE, which I'm

00:54:19   sure is going to leave a lot of people disappointed, especially if they bought the watch and they

00:54:22   didn't even know about it, which I know people that have done that. And I was told that I

00:54:29   was

00:54:43   specifically, which seems like a really good plan, especially for that amount of money.

00:54:48   I'm pretty happy with that, but I don't have to use it.

00:54:51   I can cancel at any time.

00:54:53   It's not less than a minimum fixed term on it, but they do kind of on that work here

00:54:58   does seem to kind of set it up as an individual device.

00:55:01   I think it still does all of the phone ringing and stuff like that, but that's all fine.

00:55:06   But they do kind of treat it as a separate data pool, I believe is how at least it's how

00:55:11   they're presenting it right now.

00:55:13   So, but I don't care because I got it for free for six months.

00:55:16   So it's great for me.

00:55:17   Yeah.

00:55:18   So, yeah.

00:55:20   So I mean, the setup was easy.

00:55:22   I have spent some time with it just on sailor.

00:55:26   So, uh, last night, the end of the workday, I went for a bike ride.

00:55:31   I had, I had my phone with me so I could take notes, but my, my iPhone

00:55:35   was in airplane mode was not connected to the watch, the watch was on sailor.

00:55:40   So I was gone the total of about half an hour and I saw the battery decrease from 94% when

00:55:50   I left to be at 80% when I got back.

00:55:54   That's with LTE on, that's with a bike workout, and that is with music streaming on AirPods

00:56:01   for part of the time.

00:56:03   So it is a noticeable hit to battery if you have cellular on.

00:56:09   So I think it's one of those things that you're gonna turn on when you need it and most of

00:56:13   the time when you don't need it you're gonna leave it off.

00:56:16   On Apple's battery page for the Apple Watch, I'll be linking the show notes, in the workout

00:56:22   section, they say up to 10 hours of indoor workout, up to 5 hours outdoor workout with

00:56:27   GPS, which the bike workout engages, up to 4 hours of outdoor workout with GPS and LTE.

00:56:35   So it's not a big break from GPS to add the LTE, you're just going to cost you another

00:56:41   hour overall.

00:56:43   But it does drain faster than it would otherwise.

00:56:48   So I think for me, I'm going to leave it off and then those times when I go for a bike

00:56:53   ride or a run and I want it, I'll turn it on.

00:56:55   Because other than those times, my phone is with me, I'm at home or I'm in the office,

00:57:00   I've got Wi-Fi and so I think I'm gonna just deploy it when I when I need it. I

00:57:06   think I think that's really what it's designed to do. It is in the little weird

00:57:09   watchOS control center to turn cellular on and off very easily and yeah like I

00:57:16   said most of the time you don't need it but it's there when you do. So you know I

00:57:19   was a little surprised at the battery fall off and then I realized that it was

00:57:23   very much in line with what Apple said and I think it's I think it's fine you

00:57:27   You know, the watch didn't get warm,

00:57:30   it didn't act strangely on cellular,

00:57:32   like it worked as expected.

00:57:34   Now I should say, you know,

00:57:36   I was riding through a residential area,

00:57:37   so I didn't have the, there's a bug right now in watchOS

00:57:40   where the watch will try to join a wireless network,

00:57:44   but if it presents a login screen,

00:57:46   obviously the watch can't do that.

00:57:48   - But it tries to stay connected though,

00:57:49   which is the problem. - Yeah.

00:57:51   It falls into this like black hole and it can't come out.

00:57:54   Now I'm not gonna run into that

00:57:55   riding around my neighborhood, right?

00:57:57   But it was totally fine, it worked as expected,

00:57:59   like I said, didn't even get warm,

00:58:01   it's very well integrated,

00:58:03   it basically worked as if my phone was there

00:58:08   even when the phone wasn't.

00:58:09   So I was pretty impressed in my early testing.

00:58:13   - Yeah, I haven't done anything nearly as advanced as you,

00:58:17   I just have been in my house and turned on airplane mode.

00:58:21   That's kind of the extent to what I've tried,

00:58:23   just to confirm that it works, and it does.

00:58:26   I haven't really concocted any experiments yet. I'm just trying to see if and where I

00:58:31   would be happy to use it. I'm kind of just working through that right now. I have it,

00:58:36   it's there if I need it. As I say, right now it's free for me so I'm not really feeling

00:58:41   like I'm wasting money so I'm cool with it. I'm happy with the watch. It's faster. Siri

00:58:45   works pretty well even though I don't really use Siri on the watch. I don't think I'm going

00:58:49   to even though it's better. It's just not really a way that I use, like I interact with

00:58:56   my watch. But I'm noticing everything feels faster, animations are smoother, just general

00:59:00   performance is better. It is much, much nicer. I want to talk about watchOS 4 a little bit

00:59:06   though because they're kind of going hand in hand for me. I want to talk about the Siri

00:59:10   face. So this is one of the big advancements of watchOS 4, this like timeline interface

00:59:16   that either Apple had simultaneous creation with Pebble or just completely 100% ripped

00:59:22   them off because this was this was Pebbles thing right the timeline interface. So you

00:59:28   know make it that what you will. But it's basically a watch face which gives you a bunch

00:59:33   of information. There are some data sources you can pull in stuff like weather, calendar

00:59:37   events, sunrise, activity stuff, audio playing. There's some photo memory stuff in there as

00:59:43   well. I've been using this and I think I'm gonna keep using it. I think I

00:59:48   actually quite like this watch face. You can only put two complications in. I

00:59:53   really wish I could just put one more, just one more and I would be happy. But I

01:00:00   actually do really like the information that it's showing me. Like I can look at

01:00:03   it right now. I can see when sunset is. No I would never typically care. I'm never

01:00:07   gonna seek that information out because I don't really care but to know is kind

01:00:11   nice it's like it's like okay like fine it's not really hurting me but i wouldn't have looked for

01:00:16   it but i know i've got my calendar events i have some photo memories and i can see what the weather

01:00:20   is going to be like tomorrow and and i could scroll back up and i can see stuff that i've

01:00:24   completed today and also what i like the uh if you've been listening to audio and you scroll

01:00:28   back up you can like reopen overcast or whatever if it's been like within a pretty long period of

01:00:34   time like that kind of stays quite persistent there um i like the photo memories that it shows

01:00:40   I never look at the memories feature in photos

01:00:42   But but I like that they're popping up on the watch right now

01:00:46   I just have a picture of Casey lists his face on my watch

01:00:49   Which is nice because it's showing me for a reason that I can't fully understand. It's showing me

01:00:54   WWDC

01:00:56   Photos which Apple has worked out that it was WWDC in this memory

01:01:01   They've they know which I think is really impressive. It just says the memory is called Apple WWDC 17

01:01:07   Really? It just worked that out on its own

01:01:10   Are you sure you didn't create an album or something?

01:01:13   I don't create albums.

01:01:15   How is that possible?

01:01:18   Unless I've got some kind of shared photo stream, but I don't think I have.

01:01:22   Are you sure? I'm not sure there's the intelligence to detect the...

01:01:26   I literally have a memory in the photos app called Apple WWDC 17.

01:01:31   It's a memory.

01:01:34   I wonder if they're doing some recognition on some logos

01:01:39   Maybe like by combining the location and the photos of the pins or the jacket or something

01:01:44   I just assumed that they would look at the fact that I don't live in San Jose

01:01:47   I'm in San Jose during the exact period of time that WWDC is going on and that's a pretty broad assumption

01:01:54   Like what if I live in Rome and I just happen to take a vacation in San Jose during the week of June

01:01:58   Am I going to WWDC? No, maybe they use in detection on the building, right? Like I take yeah

01:02:03   That's what that's what I was going for

01:02:06   I think they're doing some of that if it really is an intelligent

01:02:09   Suggestion although that's what they're doing. The photos don't have any pictures of the building and they're basically just pictures of the meetup

01:02:17   I don't know but it's created it. That's so it's did it's done that if you downloaded those photos

01:02:24   I may have tagged them. Is that in like Google Photos? Maybe it's in the metadata or maybe

01:02:31   There's also just pictures that I took of the ATP thing, which you weren't even at so I

01:02:37   It's definitely stuff like it's working out on its own

01:02:41   I'm not it's just Casey was there. Yeah, they're just basically my watch just has a picture of Casey on it right now

01:02:47   Which is awesome. I'm very happy about that

01:02:49   And yeah, I like it

01:02:51   I wish I could integrate third-party data because one of the complications that I've kept is the carrot weather

01:02:56   Complication because I really like the complication but I also get weather information on the Siri face

01:03:02   And so I would really like to be able to just have carrot weather in

01:03:07   Here in the Siri face as opposed to Apple's weather. So I hope that in the future

01:03:13   Third parties can have their information in this that would be good. I would like that

01:03:19   I've also tried the kaleidoscope face as well. I

01:03:24   Have thoughts about that. I think that it's silly and kind of funny and I

01:03:28   Whilst I would never use it for my watch face. I have left it as enabled watch face that I can play with

01:03:34   One thing I do like about it I

01:03:38   Can't believe I'm defending this

01:03:41   What's really nice so that you guys just don't understand

01:03:45   You don't understand how awesome it is. You have three patterns and then each pattern has a bunch of colors you can choose from

01:03:52   What's really pretty, pretty nice about this

01:03:55   is if you scroll through it,

01:03:58   so when it's your regular watch face

01:04:01   and you turn the digital crown, the kaleidoscope moves,

01:04:03   so the little patterns move around.

01:04:06   And the color of the complications will shift

01:04:10   to match the overall color of the kaleidoscope.

01:04:14   So if it's yellowy, the complications are yellow,

01:04:18   and then as I turn this one, it becomes more red,

01:04:20   complications become red.

01:04:22   It's a nice little touch.

01:04:23   It is, I agree with you, it is really silly,

01:04:25   but it's kind of impressive how smooth,

01:04:26   I mean, I can turn this digital crown as fast as I can,

01:04:29   and there's no lag.

01:04:30   It really keeps up.

01:04:31   - Also, it's got some like kinetic energy to it.

01:04:35   Like if you spin the crown really fast and let go,

01:04:38   the kaleidoscope keeps moving and slows down.

01:04:41   It's nicely done.

01:04:42   It's nicely animated.

01:04:43   And I like it 'cause I have it here and I can play with it.

01:04:46   And I put a funny picture in there

01:04:47   and I try and just see what I can do

01:04:50   to make the picture look weird.

01:04:51   So I'm never going to use this as my general watch face, but I am keeping it enabled as

01:04:57   a thing to play with because I kind of miss time travel but don't want to enable it again.

01:05:03   If that makes sense.

01:05:04   Like I miss that I could spin the digital crown and something happened, but I don't

01:05:08   want to have time travel back.

01:05:10   I know you can turn it on if you want to, but so I like that if I want to just play

01:05:14   with a digital crown and watch something happen, I can do that now just by swiping over to

01:05:18   the kaleidoscope phase.

01:05:20   The new dock. So I both like and don't like the new dock and I know I don't like it for

01:05:26   the reason that Federico I think didn't like it because you actually see less, there's

01:05:30   less information, you can't see the full apps anymore but it makes logical sense to me that

01:05:36   scrolling up and down moves cards up and down rather than left and right so I miss the kind

01:05:41   of full screen previews that they have but I think it's a logical decision. Yeah I'm

01:05:47   I'm a bit torn on this one honestly,

01:05:49   'cause I feel like it's taken me way longer

01:05:51   to get to what I want when I'm going into the dock

01:05:53   than it did before,

01:05:55   because it kind of has to move the entire card.

01:05:57   It's a bit weird, but I like the logical sense of it,

01:06:01   but I just, I miss the full screen previews of it.

01:06:05   - One thing I am glad they've gotten rid of,

01:06:07   or it's an option, if you force touch, press, deep hold

01:06:11   on the Honeycomb, you can set that to be

01:06:14   alphabetical list and then the digital crown scrolls through that list. I did

01:06:19   that instantly and it's way better than the Honeycomb. Took me multiple minutes, multiple

01:06:24   minutes to work out how to do that because why are there some settings in

01:06:28   the watch app and some settings on the watch like mind-boggling to me. That

01:06:33   whole situation is yeah I looked through the watch app forever to find it and I

01:06:37   was like let me just go try to force touch on the Honeycomb itself. That's

01:06:41   something they could do better. There's still so much that you can only do in the watch

01:06:46   app on the phone. There's some stuff you just can't do. It's only on the watch and there's

01:06:50   stuff there's both places. That feels like they built a framework and the waters have

01:06:57   gotten muddy over time with what's done where. But you know, that's not a huge complaint,

01:07:02   but it's something I'd like to see them tidy up at some point.

01:07:05   The new activity notifications are making me feel more guilty, which probably means

01:07:09   that they're working pretty well like the language of them is pretty good you know like hey go and do

01:07:13   this thing or like you've done well so far keep it up and i'm like oh but i'm in my pajamas now so

01:07:19   don't think i'm gonna um so but they're good i like the new animations as well like the kind

01:07:24   of firework catherine wheel type situation they've got going on when you complete a ring

01:07:29   it's already good oh and the timing ui is so much better so much better um when you're setting a

01:07:35   custom timer now you don't have to try and scroll around this just incredibly

01:07:39   difficult to set wheel you can actually just scroll through like lists of

01:07:44   numbers they just have like hours minutes and finally seconds that you can

01:07:48   choose from in the timer UI so much better really big fan of the timer UI

01:07:52   love it thank you for improving that whoever is responsible for improving

01:07:56   that so yeah it's good overall I'm pretty happy with it and I like watch

01:08:04   Watch OS 4 I like the new Apple Watch I feel like it's all moving together I want to see

01:08:08   more third party stuff everywhere though I want to see more apps that can pull data from

01:08:12   the cloud stuff like that because there's just a bunch of apps when you're on LTE that

01:08:15   can't do anything I want to see more stuff I actually want to see third party apps integrated

01:08:21   into the Siri face because I think that it is a real good home and like would I think

01:08:26   for me become the only way that I interacted with the watch like that would be it most

01:08:30   likely if I just had all my third parties in there I wouldn't really have to do much

01:08:34   else. So yeah, I think that is a good combo.

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01:09:49   this show and Relay FM.

01:09:52   So Steven, you've written a review of Mac OS High Sierra,

01:09:57   and I assume we should cede the floor

01:10:00   to give you some couple of minutes, I guess,

01:10:03   a couple of minutes to talk about High Sierra.

01:10:07   - A couple of minutes.

01:10:07   We were gonna talk about High Sierra for the last time

01:10:09   that we talked about the kaleidoscope watch face.

01:10:12   (laughing)

01:10:13   - What?

01:10:14   (laughing)

01:10:15   - I know the two of you would be fine with that.

01:10:17   - I would argue that more technology,

01:10:20   more effort went into the kaleidoscope phase than High Sierra.

01:10:24   (laughing)

01:10:26   - Oh no.

01:10:28   - I did write a review.

01:10:32   - I'm really sorry, I'm really sorry.

01:10:34   - No you're not.

01:10:35   I did write a review, it is my fifth or sixth

01:10:39   Mac OS review, I started with Mountain Lion.

01:10:41   It's 9300 words, which if you had told me in July

01:10:45   how long my High Sierra review would have been,

01:10:47   I would have guessed about 4000.

01:10:49   but these things happen.

01:10:50   As Federico and others can attest to,

01:10:53   sometimes you get into a project

01:10:54   and there's a lot more to do than you think.

01:10:58   Usually how I do these reviews

01:11:05   is I kind of have an outline

01:11:07   and I basically start at the beginning

01:11:09   and work my way through it.

01:11:11   This time though, Federico,

01:11:14   watching you do your iOS reviews the last couple of years,

01:11:17   being engaged in that process.

01:11:19   You know, the three of us, you know,

01:11:20   we talk about your review all summer,

01:11:22   we kind of are kind of in it with you to a degree.

01:11:26   And so I decided to kind of look at your workflow

01:11:30   and see what out of that workflow made sense for me.

01:11:33   And so this is really the first big review I've done

01:11:36   where I basically treated each section

01:11:39   as its own piece of work.

01:11:41   And that's very unlike how I write normally,

01:11:43   it's very unlike how I think normally,

01:11:45   but it was kind of nice.

01:11:47   I was like, "Hey, I'm gonna sit down

01:11:48   "and I'm gonna work on APFS this week."

01:11:50   And you don't have to worry about the rest of the review

01:11:53   this week, Steven, just work on APFS.

01:11:56   And that was really difficult for me to get into,

01:11:58   but I think one reason I think it's 9300 words

01:12:01   is because of that, that I kind of just dealt with it

01:12:04   one thing at a time.

01:12:05   - It's a bunch of mini reviews, right,

01:12:07   as opposed to one big overarching idea.

01:12:11   - Right, and I don't have the fancy navigation stuff

01:12:15   Federico did but I think I could I think I could have broken this down and do hey

01:12:19   if you just want to read this one section here it is my site doesn't have

01:12:25   any the fanciness max stories has so it's just one long markdown document but I

01:12:29   think it I think it could have worked that way and it was a refreshing way to

01:12:33   think about it and I think it helped me do this like there was no crunch time

01:12:38   for this this review has been done for a couple of weeks you know added one

01:12:41   little section yesterday at publication time but it's been edited for a while it

01:12:47   was a very relaxed process which the unlike the Sierra review but especially

01:12:52   the Mavericks review I was finishing the night before and that was not the case

01:12:57   this time it was basically ready to go with a few days maybe even almost a

01:13:01   week's notice which was um was really nice if I could have published the

01:13:06   iPhone keynote day if I needed to. It benefited from the extra time but I had

01:13:11   something ready to go that day which is a first for me.

01:13:15   I struggled with this a little bit with High Sierra for a couple of reasons. I

01:13:21   mean one I am just less personally invested in Mac OS and its advancements.

01:13:32   One, because I am more of an iOS focused person now, and the other is just out of a principle

01:13:40   point of safety, I don't upgrade macOS immediately because I feel like my entire technology stack

01:13:50   is a house of cards.

01:13:52   Because every time I do update macOS, a new issue is brought in and they just compound

01:14:01   on top of each other and they're never fixed and it all tends to be around USB audio. So

01:14:06   like I try and stay away from... They really broke that last year really badly. And it's

01:14:10   just like it won't get any better and I'm just terrified that it's going to get worse,

01:14:15   right? So like I try and stay away from it. But then compounded with all of this is the

01:14:19   fact that like this is an unexciting release of Mac OS. Like... It is. There is a lot of

01:14:25   stuff going on in the background but it's stuff that is mostly uninteresting

01:14:31   if I want to get Safari I can already get it I can run it and I wouldn't

01:14:37   personally okay like you can you can tell me why I'm wrong on this but I do

01:14:42   not want to upgrade to APFS right now like I just don't want to do it right

01:14:46   now I feel like that I would honestly just prefer it to shake out a little bit

01:14:52   longer before just upgrading and automatically having my drive turned over to a new file

01:15:00   system. It feels inherently more risky to do this on Mac OS than on iOS. You can tell

01:15:05   me if I'm wrong, but like that's just how I come to this. I'm just I'm scared of APFS

01:15:09   on my Mac right now.

01:15:12   I mean you're in the situation where, same as me, where our iMacs are our production

01:15:17   machines that if this iMac explodes I can't do my job and that's bad for a

01:15:23   bunch of obvious reasons. Yeah it's like it's always multiple thousands of

01:15:27   dollars either lost time and then replacement of equipment right like I

01:15:32   just don't want to go near that. Yeah well nothing could go so bad that you have to

01:15:35   replace anything but it could go south and you're spending a day reformatting

01:15:40   your SSD and reinstalling and then restoring for time machine so yeah I

01:15:45   I understand that, and I think that's reasonable,

01:15:50   and I think that even though High Sierra on the surface

01:15:53   is not as flashy as previous Mac OS updates,

01:15:58   that behind the scenes stuff is way more serious

01:16:01   than in previous years.

01:16:02   Because yeah, if your file system is something hiccups

01:16:04   in that conversion process, your disk is left in a state

01:16:07   where you have to reformat it, and that's bad.

01:16:11   You don't need to-- - That's a bad, bad state.

01:16:13   - Somebody I follow on Twitter right now

01:16:14   was dealing with that so I get it but um at least for me having done the

01:16:20   conversion a bunch of times my poor MacBook Pro guys like you know this

01:16:25   summer we were we were sort of sad for Federico's iPads because he was just

01:16:29   wiping them and reinstalling iOS 11 over and over that was me this summer with my

01:16:33   laptop there were several times where it didn't have an OS on it for a while but

01:16:37   um yeah I think if you are in a production machine you should always

01:16:40   wait on a major version of Mac OS you know especially because the APFS we're

01:16:45   gonna talk about APFS in a second but the conversion is mandatory on an SSD

01:16:49   there's no checkbox to get out of it there's no secret terminal command to

01:16:52   avoid it it is what happens when you hit the upgrade button if you have an SSD so

01:16:59   something to think about for sure so I I think the features of high Sierra break

01:17:09   into four maybe five big categories. You have Safari 11 which Myke as you

01:17:15   mentioned is available on Sierra and LCAP. It does a bunch of great stuff. You

01:17:23   can have reader mode engaged automatically. It has the auto play you

01:17:27   know video and audio stuff. You can disable that. You can disable it

01:17:31   permanently across sites. Like my the example I use in my review, my local

01:17:36   newspaper website is garbage and they have autoplay video on everything every

01:17:42   single page and you can turn all of it off in Safari 11. So that that's great

01:17:47   but Safari 11 is probably the most for the most user-facing feature but again

01:17:51   you can run it on Sierra and it's it's just fine so that's um it's good it's

01:17:58   faster more secure they're doing this cross browser tracking prevention or

01:18:04   cross-session tracking stuff.

01:18:06   So if you look at a box of cereal on Amazon,

01:18:09   and you go on Facebook and you see Amazon ads

01:18:11   for that box of cereal,

01:18:12   that's because there's a little cookie on your disc

01:18:14   that says, "Hey, Steven looked at this box of cereal.

01:18:16   "Show him ads again."

01:18:18   And Apple is looking for those cookies on your disc

01:18:19   and getting rid of them.

01:18:21   It's all very clever.

01:18:24   It will hurt some types of online advertising,

01:18:26   but it's not an ad blocker.

01:18:28   - Can I just say, I don't know if I need

01:18:31   or want Apple to do that for me.

01:18:34   Like, because what am I going to see?

01:18:36   I'm going to see Amazon ads for stuff I don't care about. Right.

01:18:39   Like that's what I'm going to see instead. I don't see no ad.

01:18:42   I just see an Amazon ad or like an ad that is less relevant to me.

01:18:47   Like I understand why people get upset about tracking.

01:18:51   I get it. Like I totally get it.

01:18:54   But there is a part of me that's kind of just like, well,

01:18:57   I'm going to see the ads anyway because I don't run ad blockers.

01:19:01   So I may as well see ads for other Nintendo Switch products

01:19:04   because I look at Nintendo Switch a bunch as opposed to like, what, a handbag

01:19:08   or like face cream or a chainsaw.

01:19:12   Like what am I going to see otherwise?

01:19:14   Do you know what I mean?

01:19:15   You know? Yeah.

01:19:17   Like I know that this is not popular

01:19:19   and I'm not in any way advocating for more tracking or, you know,

01:19:24   these practices, but I have like I have a confession

01:19:30   And that is, I sometimes click on the ads and buy stuff.

01:19:35   Yes, I buy stuff from Instagram ads, like quite a lot.

01:19:39   It happens to me.

01:19:42   Yeah, like like the system works in the sense that

01:19:47   I generally see like Amazon ads for Amiibo stuff or

01:19:53   Nintendo games or on Instagram lately I've been getting like some custom, some ads for custom made Metroid prints and little statues and it's because the system knows me and yes it is creepy but man those Metroid statues are looking great.

01:20:14   great.

01:20:15   And they're even parts of it.

01:20:16   I'm like, how creepy is it?

01:20:17   I know how this works, right?

01:20:20   There isn't a little person writing stuff down.

01:20:23   Like I know how this works, right?

01:20:26   I know if I go and look at something on Amazon, Amazon can serve me ads.

01:20:30   Like I understand how this works.

01:20:32   Sometimes it's surprising, like when you see it in a place you don't expect, but creepy

01:20:37   as a word for this stuff I think is thrown around a lot.

01:20:40   And Steven, I'm so sorry about the email you're going to get.

01:20:44   But like I just, you know, it feels a bit heavy handed for me for Apple to be like,

01:20:49   we're going to stop that. Like I get some of the stuff that you might want to stop people

01:20:54   tracking, you know, like tracking sessions for too long. And I get that as an element

01:20:58   of it, but like the ad stuff, it's like, I don't know. I don't know. I just feel like

01:21:03   it's a little bit, it's a little bit heavy handed. Is this stuff on by default?

01:21:06   - It is, I believe.

01:21:09   - I think so, yeah.

01:21:10   - It's heavy, it's a bit, I find it too heavy handed.

01:21:13   I think that they're, you know, if I go to a website,

01:21:16   like we'll call smudge, right, or something, the smudge,

01:21:21   and there's 20 trackers, it's like it's too many, right?

01:21:24   Like there can be too much of this stuff, I get that.

01:21:27   But I feel like a blanket on and off switch for all of it

01:21:31   is maybe a little bit too much.

01:21:33   And I don't know how I feel about Apple asserting themselves

01:21:38   as deciding what's right and wrong in the world.

01:21:42   I don't know how I feel about that.

01:21:44   That's my point, which I think is,

01:21:46   most people are gonna disagree with me

01:21:48   and I'm fine with that.

01:21:49   - It does feel like an oddly specific thing to do.

01:21:52   You know, like this is the one thing

01:21:54   they really harp on in Safari 11,

01:21:56   but there's lots of other stuff you could do on the browser

01:21:59   that make it more secure.

01:22:00   - Yeah. - But I agree with you.

01:22:02   it's a little surprising to see them do it.

01:22:06   - You know what, it's kind of strange

01:22:08   and by strange, I mean surprising

01:22:10   and also I'm not sure how I feel about it.

01:22:14   I think I like it, but I see some potential problems

01:22:17   of Apple using differential privacy

01:22:19   to understand what websites are being slow

01:22:22   and causing performance issues for people's browsers.

01:22:27   And apparently Apple is gonna collect this data

01:22:29   and they're gonna understand

01:22:30   which websites are problematic

01:22:31   and they're gonna get in touch with the owners of the websites?

01:22:35   It's so weird!

01:22:37   Like, should you expand the email from Tim Cook saying "Hey, make your damn website faster!"

01:22:42   The smurge is blowing so slowly!

01:22:44   Yeah, it's like, it's kind of a cool service?

01:22:47   I guess if they know, and maybe you don't know, but it's really weird that they're doing this.

01:22:53   It's just like, does the Safari team have nothing else to do?

01:22:57   Like, why are they emailing websites now?

01:23:00   it's all of it is like okay like if you want this stuff and I know a lot of people that do

01:23:05   really want this stuff and that's great but it's like it's also just like are you the right company

01:23:12   to do this like is this what you do now it's just weird right like some of these safari features are

01:23:18   weird like the um the autoplay video one yes right nobody wants that no one likes that it's good for

01:23:26   for no one, right? Like that's really great. Um,

01:23:28   trying to limit and understand what I'm being tracked is fine,

01:23:32   but I feel like there is a level that should be okay. And like the idea of like,

01:23:36   trying to feel like you're helping out the internet by telling people how fast

01:23:41   their websites are is like a strange proposition.

01:23:44   Yeah. I mean, Google does that, but you're not gonna get an email from them,

01:23:48   right? Like they have tools available to you to go see what's going on,

01:23:51   but they're not gonna get in touch.

01:23:53   - Yeah, I mean, well, they made like the rank queue

01:23:55   in search, right, which I guess may be worse.

01:23:57   I don't know if they do that, but.

01:23:58   - So that Safari, like I said,

01:24:00   all that stuff is available to Sierra.

01:24:03   Photos, I think, is right there with Safari

01:24:06   as far as front facing, user facing features this year.

01:24:11   Faces, the UI is much better.

01:24:15   It is doing the same thing that iOS 11 is doing,

01:24:17   where if you, so you go and identify faces,

01:24:22   pictures that you tell it, hey, this is a picture of Myke that gets synced up to

01:24:27   everywhere. Uh, your other devices are still doing face search on their own,

01:24:32   like the, like the object detection, uh, from a couple of years ago,

01:24:36   but now faces the pictures that you say, Hey, this is Myke.

01:24:42   Those get synced around. And those,

01:24:43   those things that you manually select are used to train the other devices in

01:24:47   practice. It works just as well as the object detection.

01:24:49   I feel like my faces database on my iMac,

01:24:52   or on my MacBook Pro I should say,

01:24:53   is very similar to my iOS 11 devices, if not identical.

01:24:56   Yes, I would like it to sync everything perfectly,

01:25:01   but it is way better than it was.

01:25:03   You may have some rough edges here and there,

01:25:05   but for me at least, for the first time

01:25:08   since the iPhoto days, I have invested some time

01:25:11   in selecting and setting up faces,

01:25:13   because when it didn't sync at all,

01:25:15   I just didn't care, right, 'cause I wanted it everywhere.

01:25:17   - Because it's a waste of time, right?

01:25:18   - Yeah, totally is. - Like, I'm just wasting my time.

01:25:21   Like, unless I want to triple my time,

01:25:23   and then like, forever infinity, right?

01:25:25   Like, every device I ever buy, I have to do this again.

01:25:28   Like, yeah, it was a waste of time to do that before.

01:25:31   - Yeah.

01:25:34   But now, it is much better.

01:25:37   You have some more sorting options.

01:25:40   The sidebar is permanently there,

01:25:42   which some people on Twitter were freaking out

01:25:44   about yesterday, but I like it, I left it on.

01:25:47   things are regrouped.

01:25:48   Basically it's just easier to get to what you want in photos.

01:25:50   I think Apple realized that there are a lot of people

01:25:52   like Myke who don't do albums or just sort of use search

01:25:56   or just use filtering.

01:25:57   And so all of that stuff now is better to surface things

01:26:01   within your photos library.

01:26:03   As these libraries get bigger, that's harder to do

01:26:05   and they've given us new tools to do it.

01:26:08   And then lastly, the editing tools are way better.

01:26:10   You get curves, you get some more advanced stuff.

01:26:12   You can now, well, once third party developers support it,

01:26:17   you can edit an image from your photo library

01:26:21   in an external application and then save it back to photos.

01:26:24   That was in the iPhoto days,

01:26:25   but it's been missing for a long time.

01:26:27   That's come back.

01:26:29   And you have those same live photo effects

01:26:33   that you have on iOS 11.

01:26:34   So with photos in particular,

01:26:36   that's a platform and a group of apps

01:26:40   that Apple tries very hard to keep in sync

01:26:42   between iOS 11 and the Mac.

01:26:44   The only difference is the Mac gets better editing tools,

01:26:46   And that continues to be the case this year.

01:26:49   So if you're a big photos user,

01:26:51   you're gonna see some nice improvements with High Sierra,

01:26:53   which I think is great.

01:26:54   You have, I don't know,

01:26:59   I sort of skipped this a little bit in my review.

01:27:01   I sort of punted it a little bit,

01:27:03   like Metal 2 and eGPU support.

01:27:05   That's great if you're doing VR stuff,

01:27:07   or if you're gaming on the Mac.

01:27:09   eGPU support is not coming to the public

01:27:12   until I think early next year, is what Apple has said.

01:27:14   Yeah, I mean it being great is all in theory, right? Like there's nothing. So it's like

01:27:20   in theory possibly at some point in the future it might be good for you. But it's not. I

01:27:25   mean this is one of the other things, it's like "Oh, High Sierra adds all this stuff!"

01:27:29   It's like "Yeah, but like not for me though." Right? Like the support is there, but there

01:27:36   are no games and my hardware isn't good enough. So it's like, okay, maybe at some point in

01:27:43   the future like this is the thing about High Sierra it's like this underpinning

01:27:46   stuff which is doesn't make for an exciting release can you remind me did

01:27:51   you have to pay for snow leopard it was $29 down from I guess 99 I think is what

01:27:59   client cost up to that so it was way cheaper was that considered a good deal

01:28:03   it was people were freaking out about it yeah yeah I remember that people were

01:28:09   super excited about the price drop. Yeah I don't remember. I remember the price

01:28:13   I remember the price going down but I didn't know it was the last thing. I think it was the

01:28:18   last maybe Mountain Lion was the first free one but Suneliper was definitely

01:28:23   there at the end. I think Mountain Lion was free because it was weird right

01:28:26   wasn't it the first app store one and like you had to get those weird USB keys?

01:28:30   I think Lion was the first in the app store I think it was still $29 and

01:28:34   the Mountain Lion was weird too because there was no keynote they just met John

01:28:38   Gruber in a hotel room and talked about Mountain Lion. Remember that weird thing?

01:28:42   That was great. I remember when I was when the news broke. That was fun. That was a fun day.

01:28:48   That was a fun day. So I mean now we move to the under the hood stuff. You have APFS

01:28:54   which we talked about. The new file system is mandatory and happens

01:29:01   automatically if you are on SSD. If you are on a fusion drive or god forbid a

01:29:06   spinning hard drive, you are not converted. And you can't manually convert. And so this

01:29:14   changed over the summer, initially, is all going to be well initially, the first dev

01:29:20   beta, it was an optional convert, and then everything got converted automatically. And

01:29:25   then you could not then fusion drives were not automatically done, but you can manually

01:29:29   do it. And then the very last minute Apple said, fusion drives on APFS are not supported

01:29:34   in High Sierra version, you know, 10.13.0,

01:29:37   not supported at launch.

01:29:39   If you had converted a Fusion Drive in the beta process,

01:29:42   you had to unconvert it,

01:29:43   which basically means reformatting it,

01:29:45   back to HFS+ to boot the App Store version of High Sierra.

01:29:49   Something happened here, and I've heard a couple things,

01:29:53   I'm not sure how truthful any of them are,

01:29:55   but obviously something has gone wrong with APFS

01:30:00   and spinning hard drives,

01:30:01   whether it was a conversion failure rate,

01:30:03   This is why I'm nervous because things were going wrong though, right?

01:30:09   Like they thought they had it right.

01:30:11   And then during the beta period it was like, oh, it's not how, just that uncertainty makes me feel uncomfortable.

01:30:20   Yeah, but it's uncertainty with your neighbor's computer, not your computer.

01:30:23   You don't know if I have a spinning disc.

01:30:24   I might have a spinning disc.

01:30:25   I do know because I picked out your iMac.

01:30:28   You don't know.

01:30:28   I might put one in here.

01:30:29   You don't know.

01:30:30   You didn't do that either.

01:30:31   You don't know.

01:30:31   So if you are on a fusion drive, as you know, I still think high series a fine update for

01:30:37   you.

01:30:38   There was a correct Federighi email yesterday saying that hi APFS will come in a high Sierra

01:30:45   update.

01:30:46   So I guess you have that look forward to.

01:30:49   But definitely weird.

01:30:50   But that's kind of what betas are for right like betas are for Apple to change their mind

01:30:55   about stuff.

01:30:56   And yes, this is a big and admittedly scary thing to change their mind about.

01:31:01   But I'd rather this happened in the beta, then 1013 zero come out and there's like a

01:31:06   big problem and every fusion drive iMac explodes, that would be bad for everybody.

01:31:10   So my guess is they're probably playing it safe, and that they'll get this worked out

01:31:15   and it'll all be set.

01:31:17   And then lastly, and we talked we talked some about this in in the iOS 11 coverage, but

01:31:25   the new media codecs HEVC and he are available on the Mac.

01:31:30   What's great about HEVC is it takes 4K video and makes it more or less the same file size

01:31:35   as 1080.

01:31:36   You can see up to 40% smaller than H.264 4K video.

01:31:41   This means that downloading movies from the internet in 4K are fine.

01:31:49   Can't do that in iTunes, by the way.

01:31:50   I don't know if you guys caught this.

01:31:51   iTunes 4K content, you can't download.

01:31:53   It's only for streaming, which I do not understand.

01:31:58   But if you download something from YouTube in 4K or if you are working in 4K in Final

01:32:02   Cut or iMovie, iMovie already got updated.

01:32:05   Expert Final Cut will be updated shortly.

01:32:08   I bet I know why you can't download.

01:32:10   EdiQ.

01:32:11   Because they cost $20.

01:32:13   This was part of the deal, I bet.

01:32:15   It's like a DRM thing.

01:32:16   But even if you buy something new, yeah, I mean, at least if it's going to be $30, give

01:32:21   me the option because I want it downloaded.

01:32:22   But I will.

01:32:23   Right, but this is the point.

01:32:24   They're not going to let you.

01:32:25   the movie studios, they're like, this is what they've decided is my assumption.

01:32:29   It's like, well they either go that price but nobody can download them.

01:32:33   Yeah. And then Heef, same type deal, smaller than JPEGs. Heef is what gives you all the

01:32:40   goodness with the live photo stuff. It's actually stored as one, like in one

01:32:46   container as opposed to before you had a JPEG and a QuickTime file and iOS sort of

01:32:49   smashed them together. It's much more graceful now. And what's really cool

01:32:55   about this stuff is that Apple's done a really good job. If you go to export

01:32:59   something, and Federer could cover all this in iOS 11, it's the same in iOS 11,

01:33:02   it will convert to the more compatible format if necessary, and it will kind of

01:33:08   always do the right thing. So if you email something it's always going to

01:33:10   convert to a JPEG because they can't really guarantee anything over email. If

01:33:15   it's AirDrop or iMessage they know a little bit more about you and so you may

01:33:18   get the the he for the HEVC format. And what this means going forward is that

01:33:23   that people's photos libraries will be smaller.

01:33:25   Apple is not going through your iCloud photo library

01:33:27   and converting everything.

01:33:29   I'm sure there will be Mac utilities that do that.

01:33:32   Do them at your own risk, I guess.

01:33:33   I'm not sure that's something I'm gonna ever do.

01:33:35   But moving forward, we should fill up our iCloud allowances

01:33:40   at a slower rate because these files will be smaller.

01:33:44   And I think that Apple's done a good job with that.

01:33:46   On iOS and on the Mac, this conversion,

01:33:49   I think, is gonna be pretty seamless

01:33:50   for people who upgrade all their stuff at the same time.

01:33:52   you're never really gonna notice this,

01:33:54   and that's what you want from a codec change.

01:33:56   No end user should ever have to think about this,

01:33:59   but Apple's gotta do it,

01:34:02   and so they've done it in a way on both platforms

01:34:04   that makes it really, really effortless.

01:34:07   I think that's a really big accomplishment

01:34:11   that they were able to basically swap out

01:34:14   all the guts of QuickTime and photos,

01:34:15   and no one ever noticed.

01:34:20   So I think those are the big areas.

01:34:22   Safari, photos, metal and eGPU, APFS, MediaCodecs.

01:34:27   Sticky's got a big update.

01:34:28   I wrote way more about Sticky than I ever thought I would.

01:34:31   That's fine.

01:34:32   We don't need to talk about that here.

01:34:33   People can just go and look at the screenshots in your review.

01:34:36   Yeah.

01:34:37   Sticky's got two screenshots.

01:34:39   Some sections got zero.

01:34:40   Sticky's earned two.

01:34:42   So that's worth something, I guess.

01:34:47   Did this feel like a version of Mac OS worth putting the time into?

01:34:52   When you're done, do you feel that way or no?

01:34:56   The review you mean?

01:34:58   Yeah.

01:34:59   I do feel it's worth it because just like with iOS reviews, there's always what Apple

01:35:06   talks about and then there's stuff that is not evident until you dig into it.

01:35:12   And it's easy to write Hi Sarah off, we all did it at the beginning of the show, as this

01:35:17   small macOS update and it is a small macOS update, relatively speaking, even as macOS

01:35:23   updates have gotten smaller since Apple moved to the annual release, you pull the average

01:35:27   Mac user, they can't tell you if they're on Yosemite or LCAP or Sierra, they're all kind

01:35:30   of the same to a degree. Hi Sierra promised polish and improvements. And those are all

01:35:41   there. But I think I think why I'm happy to spend the time with it is because that that

01:35:44   under the hood stuff, these codec changes, APFS. These are important changes that Apple

01:35:50   can build on for the future. And it's important to understand where they are today to understand

01:35:56   where they could go in the future. So yeah, I've got I got no regrets of this 9300 words

01:36:01   and it was, you know, a good chunk of my summer because I think it's important to know where

01:36:06   Apple is going to take the Mac in the future and, and, and I think more importantly than

01:36:11   But it knowing what they could do between iOS 11 and High Sierra and how that could

01:36:16   just blossom into even more stuff in the future.

01:36:20   Because they have these these new technologies kind of underneath all of it across their

01:36:25   platforms.

01:36:26   Like HEVC is everywhere.

01:36:28   Like it's on the Apple TV 4k when you stream 4k content.

01:36:32   You can't stream 4k YouTube because YouTube doesn't use HEVC.

01:36:35   Like these frameworks are really pivotal for how we're gonna experience Apple content

01:36:42   technology across the platforms, whether you have a Siri remote in your hand or an iPhone

01:36:46   or an iMac on your desk.

01:36:48   And so yeah, I think it's important to know kind of what's in here, even if on the surface

01:36:54   high Sierra is a little boring.

01:36:55   All right, so I think that wraps it up for this week.

01:37:00   you can find our show notes over at relay.fm/connected/161

01:37:06   If you want to find Stephen's work online, including his High Sierra review, go to 512pixels.net

01:37:12   and you'll find that and Stephen is tweeting @ismh

01:37:16   Federico is @vittici, V I T I C C I and he's at maxstories.net and I am @imike

01:37:22   Thanks again to our lovely sponsors, the fine folk at Encapsula, Freshbooks and Smile

01:37:27   And most of all, thank you for listening. We'll be back next time. Until then, say goodbye guys.

01:37:33   Arrivederci! Adios!