160: Things Have Taken a Turn


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:06   from relay FM this is connected episode 160 today's show

00:00:11   is brought to you by squarespace fresh books and

00:00:15   bombfell my name is mike hurley i am joined by mr stephen hacket hello

00:00:18   stephen hacket hello michael hurley and the man of the

00:00:21   hour mr federico vici ciao federico hello michael hurley how are you good

00:00:27   good i wondered if you two were gonna bring

00:00:28   that up again turns out yes yes you are you have a bunch of other names that i don't remember

00:00:35   david james no you remember them perfectly good one oh yeah okay proud of you very proud

00:00:41   of you uh mikey dj hurley is how i remember it yeah that's me that's me kids mikey mikey dj so

00:00:48   we have an action-packed show today we have two whole product categories that we didn't get any

00:00:52   time to discuss last week and iOS 11 so buckle up everybody who cares about that

00:01:00   should we talk about I guess you know how have you not how have you not like

00:01:06   filled up everything that you have to say on this so far like exactly I don't

00:01:10   know yeah I can't believe that you would rush to talk about iOS alone surely I

00:01:16   mean well I guess of all of us I am the one who has spoken about iOS 11

00:01:21   the most, but we can get onto that a little bit later.

00:01:25   Because for the past two weeks in our document,

00:01:28   Steven has had a little note which just says,

00:01:31   follow up, update on Steven's move to Spotify.

00:01:34   Now before I let you tell whatever the story is, Steven,

00:01:39   about whatever you've done, I would like to make a guess

00:01:44   over what I think that you've done.

00:01:46   So the first link in the show notes today

00:01:50   will be what I think Steven may potentially be up to.

00:01:53   So you guys can click that if you want.

00:01:56   I'm going to open this link.

00:01:58   Did you buy an MP3 player purely dedicated to your spot playing Spotify music?

00:02:08   There's an MP3 player called the mighty I believe that can integrate with Spotify to do this.

00:02:13   What?

00:02:14   I had no idea such a thing existed.

00:02:17   Yeah.

00:02:17   Okay, so.

00:02:19   I like orange.

00:02:21   So is Myke correct? Or should I guess first?

00:02:26   #MykeIsNotRight

00:02:28   Ah, okay. So I'm gonna say...

00:02:32   So you've been teasing a major piece of follow-up about Spotify.

00:02:40   So I'm gonna say that you are trying Google Play Music now?

00:02:49   No, I'm not. You all are 0 for 2.

00:02:53   Okay. Alright.

00:02:55   So I have been trying Spotify. I talked about how I was discovering all the good things about it, like everyone else did in 2009.

00:03:03   You can play on your phone and then your computer knows where you were and you can use your phone as a remote for your other devices.

00:03:11   It's all very clever. I went through and added all my music to Spotify. I downloaded all my music on my phone.

00:03:17   So for offline playback, even though I have a bunch of data on AT&T, I don't want to stream if I don't have to.

00:03:22   Right. And so I have it all locally.

00:03:25   And and then I ran into the problem.

00:03:29   And it is a problem before I can hear you running your emails to me right now.

00:03:34   It may be just me. This could just be a problem that I have with my particular setup.

00:03:38   But my car stereo has Bluetooth and it works pretty well actually.

00:03:44   It puts the artist and album stuff up on the screen. I can use voice control to

00:03:49   call people on the phone. It's not Siri hands-free, it's like the basic Toyota

00:03:52   one, but it integrates with the iPhone. It's a pretty decent system for a

00:03:56   a car that's now three years old.

00:03:59   But the problem I have with this stereo

00:04:00   is that it's not particularly loud.

00:04:02   And I'm not talking about blowing my eardrums out,

00:04:05   right, like I'm not that guy at the stoplight.

00:04:07   But Spotify seems to, for whatever reason,

00:04:13   have a lower volume over Bluetooth than anything else.

00:04:16   So if I would be playing music in Spotify,

00:04:18   I have to turn it up a little bit,

00:04:19   and then I go to Overcast, or go to the radio,

00:04:22   and those would be way louder.

00:04:25   And it's a small thing, but something that really

00:04:29   rubbed me the wrong way.

00:04:30   So I was thinking about this, thinking about what to do.

00:04:33   And I came to a conclusion that even surprised me.

00:04:39   And I went to my Mac, and I option clicked on iTunes,

00:04:43   and I started a new iTunes library.

00:04:46   And I signed up for Apple Music and enabled iTunes Match.

00:04:49   What?

00:04:49   [LAUGHTER]

00:04:52   That was--

00:04:52   Hang on a second.

00:04:53   Wait.

00:04:54   You of all people, Apple Music?

00:04:58   I'm confused.

00:04:59   Wait.

00:05:00   You started a new iTunes library.

00:05:04   So I tried Apple Music when it first came out.

00:05:07   I used to use iTunes Match.

00:05:09   And I had a lot of problems in the past with iTunes Match basically destroying my library.

00:05:14   So I started with a clean library.

00:05:16   No music, imported the stuff that I wanted, and then matched the rest of it.

00:05:21   And that was a process of a couple days just kind of doing it in the background, but it

00:05:25   totally worked.

00:05:26   I have all my music now.

00:05:28   It's all matched.

00:05:29   I've got Apple Music on my phone.

00:05:31   I even did the trick of creating a playlist of everything I wanted locally and downloaded

00:05:35   that playlist, which is a great shortcut so you don't have to tap through a thousand albums

00:05:39   and download them individually.

00:05:40   And I've got to say, a couple weeks into it, I'm really happy with it.

00:05:44   Who knew?

00:05:45   Alright, let me just check something real quick.

00:05:47   Who knew?

00:05:48   I said two weeks, didn't I?

00:05:50   naught to two weeks before you... I don't know, we'd have to go to the tape.

00:05:54   But I think like the wording may be a bit sketchy right as to whether it was like

00:05:58   leaving Spotify or going back. I probably said going, but I think the argument was whether you

00:06:05   would go back or not. Right, which I haven't. But still though, two weeks. It is a change. So I mean,

00:06:11   I'd give it another two weeks until you leave Apple Music for something else. So this is my

00:06:17   Phase two of this, and this is where I need your help and the help of the listeners,

00:06:20   my wife and I share an Apple ID for purchasing. We have for 15 years. So anytime I buy an album,

00:06:28   or anytime she buys an album or an app or whatever, we use the same Apple ID. And yes,

00:06:32   that may be stealing or whatever, but Apple lets you do it. That's how we do it.

00:06:36   We have separate iCloud accounts for all of our other stuff. I did this with our shared Apple ID,

00:06:43   because that's where all of our purchased music is. And a lot of stuff on my iTunes over the years

00:06:46   has been purchased and I wanted access to it all. But now I'm kind of thinking that

00:06:50   my wife may enjoy Apple Music as well because she always has the problem that she the kids want to

00:06:55   listen to something and she bought it but she didn't stick it to her phone and then she has

00:06:59   trouble downloading it again. I thought this may just be easier but I don't know how to go about

00:07:03   this because we share an ID for purchasing and I don't want to share necessarily share an Apple

00:07:08   Music library with her. I don't think more importantly I don't think she wants to share one

00:07:11   with me. And so I'm curious as to what I do there. Do I just set a new one up for her

00:07:16   and just add stuff?

00:07:18   What about the Apple Music family thing?

00:07:22   That's the most confusing webpage I've ever read. And I have read every single page in

00:07:26   the K-Bass. I really need to sit down and look through it. Because the family stuff,

00:07:33   and I'm not sure I want to do that with everything else, I may just end up setting an Apple Music

00:07:38   library up under her iCloud account and anything purchased she could just have access to via

00:07:43   Apple Music, I guess.

00:07:44   So it may not be that big of a deal.

00:07:46   But I think that it could be, I think she may enjoy having access to everything in iTunes

00:07:52   all the time.

00:07:53   So yeah, it's actually like it's been, it's been great.

00:07:56   It was super smooth to match everything.

00:07:58   You know, I left my phone plugged in and, and everything downloaded overnight.

00:08:03   And it's been really solid.

00:08:06   Like it's, the UI is not ideal.

00:08:08   I kind of like Spotify's UI better,

00:08:10   but I can talk to Siri and it controlled the music,

00:08:13   which is something I gave up going to Spotify,

00:08:16   which is nice, especially in the car.

00:08:18   So, so far, I'm pretty happy with it.

00:08:21   - Turns out that family plans require family sharing,

00:08:25   which might not be something you want to do.

00:08:27   - Right, that's a whole can of worms

00:08:29   I'm not sure I want to do.

00:08:30   So I may just sign up for her own plan

00:08:32   and just match everything, so.

00:08:35   So yeah, there's that.

00:08:38   Well, welcome to September 2015, I guess.

00:08:45   I think it was actually June 2015, like June 30.

00:08:49   Oh yeah, it launched early, didn't it?

00:08:50   Even before.

00:08:51   Yeah, yeah.

00:08:53   Yeah, I didn't realize they kept the bubbles interface,

00:08:56   like tap the albums you like, tap the artists you like,

00:08:58   from Beats Music.

00:09:00   I'd forgotten all about that.

00:09:01   That was a nice onboarding experience.

00:09:04   Also, it's a super fun UI because you can flick them around.

00:09:06   It's fun.

00:09:08   So I did the same thing on my iPad.

00:09:09   I signed in.

00:09:10   I have just a playlist I called For Local, music

00:09:14   that I know I want downloaded.

00:09:16   And just download that playlist on my iPad as well.

00:09:19   And it's been really solid.

00:09:21   Even in the beta, I haven't had any real issues with it.

00:09:25   So there you go, Apple Music.

00:09:27   Who knew?

00:09:29   Wow.

00:09:30   Should we move on?

00:09:31   Yeah, I wasn't expecting to talk about Apple Music today.

00:09:33   I know. That's why the sub point, which you did not read on the air,

00:09:38   in all capital letters I wrote, "things have taken a turnover here, guys."

00:09:41   And a quiet turn they have. So anyways, last week we spoke about the Apple event.

00:09:47   We're going to wrap that up today.

00:09:48   But we had asked listeners for the source of the

00:09:54   Steve Jobs quote, and we didn't hear anything like no emails, no tweets,

00:09:57   because turns out, Gruber has a story.

00:10:00   It was a internal like Apple meeting or hands-on of some type that that audio was recorded from.

00:10:08   And so yeah, so it wasn't public. That's why we didn't recognize it. But I think it's pretty cool.

00:10:13   I have rewatched the keynote since last recording and this section of the keynote still like totally

00:10:19   stands up. Like I'm still I feel as good and warm and fuzzy about it as I did the day after.

00:10:24   I don't watch. I don't rewatch keynotes anymore. I stopped doing that a few years ago, I think.

00:10:29   any particular just time like time wise or well i figured after like a week i have absorbed all

00:10:37   of the information like i have nothing more to get out of it like either through talking to people on

00:10:43   podcasts that i create or listening to other podcasts where people talk about all this stuff

00:10:48   there is already more information outside of the keynote than there is in the keynote so like i

00:10:52   I don't really have a utility reason to watch it anymore.

00:10:56   But like I might watch like I don't know because I have already

00:11:01   rewatched the Johnny Ive video because they're like I think they're better for

00:11:06   rewatching because they're a couple of minutes each or whatever. Or I might watch like I look through the product pages and stuff

00:11:11   like that because there's little tidbits. But going back to rewatch the events isn't something

00:11:16   that I just have much of a desire to do anymore. I used to. I used to watch them like

00:11:21   Two or three times in total. Yeah, but I don't know. Yeah

00:11:26   Yeah, I used to try to watch it that same night because when you're when it's live

00:11:32   And if you're like us you're working like you're taking notes for shows or you're tweeting hilarious things on Twitter

00:11:37   Or if you're Federico and have a real thing to do you're assigning stories

00:11:40   But it's easy to miss stuff. And so I usually try to watch it. I take your notes is a real thing to do

00:11:47   I tried to watch it that night, but it didn't pan out this time, but I watched it

00:11:52   I watched it like maybe three or four nights ago, and there's always stuff you miss and

00:11:56   But yeah that that first section still feels really nice. I think that's gonna hold up really well

00:12:02   Do you rewatch the Federico?

00:12:04   I used to I don't do that anymore

00:12:07   I used to do more of that especially when I was not working on IOS reviews

00:12:13   So basically because Apple does two events a year now the WWDC one

00:12:18   I'm busy because I'm already taking notes and the iPhone one

00:12:23   iOS is about to come out to the new version

00:12:26   So I'm always busy when Apple is doing you know when Apple does the keynote

00:12:30   So I watch it the first time live and that's about it. They're bad times for you really

00:12:34   They really are and when Apple used to do the March event

00:12:38   I wasn't busy in that time of the year, but now when they do just June and September I'm usually busy

00:12:47   and the October events were not really that much interesting, at least for me when they did the Mac updates and that kind of stuff.

00:12:54   The March is mostly not interesting as well, right? Like on the whole it tends to be one of the quieter events.

00:13:03   If they do three or four a year,

00:13:05   either March or October or both will be the quieter events.

00:13:08   The more interesting stuff happens in June and September.

00:13:10   - Totally.

00:13:11   So last in the follow-up is just a little check-in

00:13:14   on our St. Jude fundraiser.

00:13:16   It's going super well.

00:13:17   Our goal was nine grand, and we are at,

00:13:20   as I load this page, $16,503, so almost double,

00:13:25   which would be super awesome.

00:13:27   I don't think we, maybe we didn't talk about this.

00:13:30   So I'm not running this year,

00:13:31   but our kids, our two oldest kids are doing the kids marathon,

00:13:34   that's what this page is actually for.

00:13:36   And every morning they wake up and want to know

00:13:38   how it's going, which I think is super,

00:13:40   it's super exciting for them to see that support roll in.

00:13:43   - There you go, you can inspire the hearts and minds,

00:13:46   dear listener, if you haven't already pledged

00:13:48   there's a link in the show notes to do that.

00:13:50   - Yep.

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00:16:00   Alright let's talk about the Apple Watch. So just a brief recap in case you haven't

00:16:08   watched the keynote at all. I guess the big thing is that the Apple Watch Series 3 comes

00:16:14   of LTE and it's 70% faster. I'm really intrigued about how it's going to feel to be faster

00:16:21   and untethered. I'm really interested to see what happens to applications. Are they going

00:16:28   to get the data from the cloud? How is that all going to work? I imagine myself, once

00:16:36   I get my Apple Watch later this week, spoilers if I pre-ordered or not, I guess I'm just

00:16:44   gonna put my iPhone into airplane mode for a while and just like see what happens right

00:16:49   like what does it do and how does it work because I know that there's that Wi-Fi thing

00:16:54   right you know you can have it connect to a Wi-Fi network and stuff like that but that's

00:16:58   always been it's always been a little bit flaky because I feel like the watch is still

00:17:03   always looking for the phone like even when it's doing that it's like it would prefer

00:17:07   to be talking to the phone directly if it can so like it tries to see if it can find

00:17:12   it but I'm really intrigued to see how things load and how things operate and how apps work

00:17:21   with these two key things so like a faster processor and a LTE chip.

00:17:25   Yeah I don't know how much is really known about that.

00:17:29   I also wonder if developers are going to need to do anything, I just don't know, with their

00:17:34   watchOS apps like make it aware that it could, like if the phone is missing that it can still

00:17:39   do stuff.

00:17:40   It all seems a little hazy to me.

00:17:42   My guess is that it will work just kind of as you expect.

00:17:46   Like if the phone's there, it will depend on the phone more, but then if the phone goes

00:17:49   away, it is still fine.

00:17:52   Like it can still do everything that it needs to do.

00:17:54   I expect it to be a very seamless experience.

00:17:58   I don't know if there's going to be any mode switching necessary that we would even notice

00:18:01   as end users.

00:18:05   So I don't understand the process of how this virtual sim works.

00:18:10   Like it's still your phone number.

00:18:12   So how does that happen?

00:18:14   Like does your carrier…

00:18:16   I have like very basic kind of understanding of this from the stuff that I've pieced

00:18:21   together that the carrier knows and like that's why there's all this carrier support needed

00:18:27   because my understanding is that there…

00:18:30   I assume using a combination of some of the technology that Apple has for call forwarding

00:18:34   and stuff like that, as well as just like the carrier being that there are two devices

00:18:39   that are connected to this telephone number. Which I don't think is something, I mean that's

00:18:43   not something that's wild, I think Google Voice was like that right? Like Google Voice

00:18:47   could call multiple devices, I assume there's some kind of forwarding that can occur right?

00:18:54   But the thing that I was going to mention specifically is like the electronic SIM thing,

00:19:00   it's all a little bit peculiar to me because there's no roaming or anything like that,

00:19:03   not an Apple sim like you just sign up for a plan and that's it I don't think

00:19:07   it's like super simple to just move to another provider right like I don't

00:19:12   think that's kind of how that works but my understanding of it is kind of just

00:19:16   like that Apple works with the carriers the carriers know there are these

00:19:19   devices and from what I can see from my carrier if you buy a device kind of

00:19:27   unlocked yeah like you just buy it straight from Apple you sign up for a

00:19:32   plan inside of the Apple watch app is what they're saying because my carrier EE is currently

00:19:39   not publicly saying how much the plans are because what they are trying to do right now

00:19:48   I believe is push people to buy it directly through them so you can get like an Apple

00:19:52   watch for free but you pay like £25 a month for it but there are there is an ability to

00:19:59   do what I'm doing, the same as the phone, and buy it outright and then get a plan.

00:20:05   But there has been some people reporting that it's going to be something like £5 a month,

00:20:09   which is effectively $10 a month, right, which is what it's been elsewhere.

00:20:12   So I'm expecting that Apple kind of set these limits to kind of fall around the same amount

00:20:17   of money.

00:20:18   But as it stands of this, like at the time of recording, like there is no information

00:20:22   for me to work out how much this is actually going to cost me, which is very peculiar.

00:20:29   There was a thing over the weekend or at the end of last week where T-Mobile came out and

00:20:33   said that you could use it on 3G.

00:20:37   It would be throttled to 3G data speeds unless you paid more and then you could have the

00:20:43   speeds that you get on your phone.

00:20:45   It seems like they've rolled that back a little bit maybe.

00:20:48   I think they got a lot of pressure for that.

00:20:49   Yeah, they've changed it to LTE now.

00:20:52   They've just made it LTE for everyone.

00:20:53   Yeah, that's good.

00:20:54   limiting it to 512 kilobits a second.

00:20:59   Not a super great look.

00:21:01   But yeah, I think most of these are gonna be

00:21:03   five bucks a month, 10 bucks a month.

00:21:05   And for me, I'm not super pumped about giving AT&T

00:21:08   more money a month, but it's totally fine.

00:21:10   I don't have a problem with it.

00:21:12   I'm buying half-bought spoilers

00:21:14   and expensive watch yet again.

00:21:17   And for me, it's gonna be nice to just leave my phone behind

00:21:21   doing certain things.

00:21:23   Even this weekend doing yard work,

00:21:25   where I have my 7 Plus in my pocket,

00:21:29   and it's just like, it's bulky,

00:21:30   and fell out of my pocket at some point,

00:21:32   like face down in a bunch of dirt.

00:21:34   It's like, hey, this would be really nice

00:21:35   to have my phone in the counter inside,

00:21:37   and if someone calls me or something,

00:21:39   I can still use my watch.

00:21:42   I think what it will do for me,

00:21:43   and I'm curious what you think about this,

00:21:46   or if you guys run into this now,

00:21:47   where like, there's some apps that I use all the time

00:21:49   on my phone that just are really bad

00:21:51   or non-existent on the watch.

00:21:52   So like, if I get a DM in Slack,

00:21:55   I can't reply to it on my watch

00:21:56   because that's broken for whatever reason for me.

00:21:58   - Well, you confirm the notifications now,

00:22:00   but yeah, I get your point.

00:22:02   - Maybe it's just a beta thing,

00:22:04   I have a lot of trouble with it.

00:22:06   Or not even that, like say,

00:22:08   all sorts of stuff that comes in that is sort of,

00:22:12   like I'm gonna have to triage more, I guess,

00:22:14   on the watch now than I ever have

00:22:17   because it could be the only thing I have with me.

00:22:19   But things like iMessage and stuff all work really well,

00:22:22   and that's probably the most important thing.

00:22:25   But I'm excited to have some freedom

00:22:28   to leave the phone behind but still be reachable.

00:22:32   And so yeah, so I joined GMI and bought an LTE model.

00:22:36   - So there's a thought that I had

00:22:38   about the role that Apple sees for the Apple Watch.

00:22:44   Because last year we were talking about

00:22:46   how Apple is now focusing on the health

00:22:49   fitness aspect and that is still very much true especially because you know they're featuring you

00:22:53   know people who have been using the Apple Watch to get in better shape or to get healthier and so

00:22:59   that is still true that the Apple Watch is primarily maybe a fitness device but there's also the what I

00:23:05   found fascinating from the event is how the Apple Watch is sort of becoming the new iPod for Apple

00:23:11   from a music perspective and they're pushing really heavily on this idea of now you can stream 40

00:23:17   million songs on your wrist and you know they're doing commercials with the Apple

00:23:21   Watch and the AirPods together and they're you know pushing this idea of

00:23:26   being free from the iPhone and having constant access to music and I

00:23:32   found that fascinating. I'll have that now look at me!

00:23:35   Look at you, welcome to 2017, I'm so proud of you. Yes and even in iOS 11 you know

00:23:41   there's features that in like when I was in the music app the other day on the

00:23:45   iOS 11 GM and iOS 11 asked me "do you want to automatically add music to your Apple Watch?"

00:23:51   So iOS is even being proactive in terms of making sure that you always have music.

00:23:57   And I found that interesting because it seems like, you know, from the beginning where the

00:24:02   Apple Watch was supposed to be everything all the time, Apple had sort of scaled back and now for

00:24:08   the second year in a row we're sort of seeing Apple tackling a different aspect of this big

00:24:14   experience that is watchOS and optimizing a single, you know, it's like a single feature,

00:24:21   a single aspect of the Apple Watch.

00:24:24   Yeah, I'm happy that it will have the music stuff, but music isn't what the audio that

00:24:28   I want, right? Like I want podcasts and I want them with Overcast. That's what I want.

00:24:34   Totally.

00:24:35   Right? And I know that there are a million things and I know that Marco is working on

00:24:39   it but that's what I want and it's frustrating to me that I'm gonna have an LTE connected

00:24:45   device that can't listen to audio unless it's Apple music.

00:24:52   There's even an Apple podcast watch app, probably not right? I don't think there is.

00:24:58   You know it's just like "Ugh, come on" whatever it is that... It surprises me that they would

00:25:05   make this LTE watch and focus on this one part of the audio thing about it but yet there

00:25:11   still seems to not be good audio APIs for other people to take advantage of.

00:25:16   I don't think that that does a good job for the watch, like the music thing is going to

00:25:20   be the music thing, whatever it's going to be.

00:25:22   When honestly, if I was going to bet, I would say that the audio APIs are bad because they

00:25:28   maybe just want one music provider on the product for the time being.

00:25:33   be my would be my bet. They could do that with policy not a cruddy API. I don't know.

00:25:40   But policy is way harder to be like no no we can only have one music app like API is

00:25:48   an easier way to do that. They tango with Spotify a couple years ago they'll do it again.

00:25:53   They're not afraid. Well. I agree with you there. Podcasts on the watch would be amazing.

00:26:00   We shouldn't go much further without recognizing that we have two listeners in the Apple Watch

00:26:06   video.

00:26:07   This is incredible.

00:26:09   So the watch video, it's on YouTube now, the "Hey, people write letters to Apple saying

00:26:15   how the watch has made a difference in their life," which is a great spot.

00:26:20   Kyle the Grey is riding a bike, so I was not getting any text from him.

00:26:26   The stream was a couple minutes behind for different people.

00:26:30   He's like, "Hey, hey, hey."

00:26:31   I'm like, "Hey, Kyle."

00:26:32   It took me a minute to catch up what was going on.

00:26:35   But he's put a link in the search.

00:26:38   The letter that he wrote, he put up on his website.

00:26:40   It was fun to see.

00:26:43   Along with Stuart Breingin, who's another Relay FM listener who was also in the video.

00:26:50   Stuart was the guy who stands up in the office at the time to stand.

00:26:55   That's a great shot.

00:26:56   Yeah.

00:26:57   Yeah, that's him.

00:26:58   He's another Relay FM listener.

00:26:59   I heard us talking about Kyle.

00:27:00   I was like, hey, I'm in the video too.

00:27:02   I was like, of course you are, because that makes sense.

00:27:04   We have two listeners in an Apple video.

00:27:07   That's hilarious.

00:27:08   Yeah.

00:27:08   So--

00:27:10   It's the slow takeover of really all Apple media.

00:27:15   I really-- I think Apple really struggled

00:27:18   with the watch in the beginning.

00:27:20   They didn't really know what it was for.

00:27:21   Like, you go back and watch that first keynote,

00:27:23   and Kevin Lynch is like, I opened my garage door with it,

00:27:25   and I opened a hotel room with it,

00:27:26   and I can see what my daughter's doing.

00:27:29   All of this stuff that the watch has just fallen away.

00:27:32   And the users of the watch have said,

00:27:35   we want notifications and we want fitness.

00:27:37   And Apple has responded to that

00:27:39   and made those things better.

00:27:41   This year, Sailor makes both of those things better.

00:27:44   But their advertising has caught up with that.

00:27:46   And I think out of the iPad Pro commercials they've done,

00:27:49   of the iPad Pro versus a traditional computer,

00:27:52   and these Apple Watch fitness pieces,

00:27:56   Apple's current marketing at its best.

00:27:58   I think they're really finally telling the story

00:28:01   of the Apple Watch in a way that makes sense.

00:28:03   People like, hey, you know, if you want notifications

00:28:06   and you want fitness tracking,

00:28:08   like this is the device you should get.

00:28:09   And no other device on the market can do that.

00:28:12   You know, people still ask Fitbit versus Apple Watch.

00:28:14   Fitbit only gets you halfway there.

00:28:16   And I think Apple's really kind of telling

00:28:18   a cohesive story with this watch.

00:28:19   I think this video is another chapter in that story.

00:28:22   - Yeah, I would maybe like posit

00:28:24   that this is what will always happen

00:28:28   if you launch an app store onto a platform too early.

00:28:31   - Yes, yes.

00:28:33   - Look at the Apple TV, right?

00:28:34   It's the same thing.

00:28:35   - Yep, it's the exact same thing,

00:28:36   'cause all people know is to put the app

00:28:39   that they're currently making on it,

00:28:41   'cause nobody knows how to use it yet.

00:28:43   It is easily argued that the Apple Watch was debuted

00:28:47   before Apple even knew how to use the thing,

00:28:50   because WatchOS, was it two?

00:28:53   I think it was two, which came out

00:28:54   kind of like midway or something like it was.

00:28:57   - Yeah. - Right, it's real fast.

00:28:59   - And it made it vastly better

00:29:01   and then three made it even better

00:29:03   but like at the things that it was good at

00:29:04   and just de-emphasize the things that it wasn't.

00:29:07   You know like, oh the honeycomb is dumb

00:29:10   and we should maybe have a better way

00:29:11   of switching between apps.

00:29:13   - Remember the interface to access your friends on a dial?

00:29:17   - Yeah, yeah. - Yeah.

00:29:19   And then it was a circle and now it's gone completely.

00:29:22   (laughing)

00:29:23   A couple of days ago, Adina was like,

00:29:24   how do I get to the digital touch thing?

00:29:26   Like, she wanted it for some reason.

00:29:28   And I was just like, well, here's the 17 steps

00:29:31   you now need to be able to do that.

00:29:33   Did you hear like a record scratch, like when she asked that?

00:29:38   Somewhere, the one person at Apple

00:29:41   who worked on that who's still there, like, they felt it,

00:29:43   right, they felt a disturbance in the force.

00:29:46   Someone's looking for it.

00:29:47   That person must have seen their features slowly be demoted.

00:29:52   first on the Apple Watch, then on the iPhone and iMessage.

00:29:56   You can now actually delete digital touch

00:29:59   if you don't want it.

00:29:59   - Like how great was they have felt like,

00:30:01   oh man, it's being put on the iPhone now.

00:30:04   That's how good it is.

00:30:05   And it's like, it's taking up prime real estate.

00:30:08   - It all came crashing down in 12 months.

00:30:13   - Yeah, you went from having a whole button

00:30:15   dedicated just to you on the Apple Watch

00:30:17   being deleteable on the iPhone.

00:30:19   - I'm so sorry for that.

00:30:21   I mean, we make fun of the feature because the way that it looks and because nobody uses

00:30:27   it, but I do feel kind of bad for, you know, there must be someone who felt proud to make

00:30:34   it happen, you know?

00:30:35   And so that's not funny that someone, you know, it's not their fault.

00:30:40   Some manager told them, "Hey, you got to make a feature that turns handwriting into this

00:30:43   kind of cute animation."

00:30:45   So the problem is definitely not the engineers who work on this stuff.

00:30:48   It's the...

00:30:49   They can't all be winners though, right?

00:30:50   They cannot all be winners and that was an unfortunate feature.

00:30:54   Every time we talk about digital touch and we poke fun at the feature,

00:30:58   I get people on Twitter that say "Oh, you're so detached from reality.

00:31:02   I see people using digital touch every day."

00:31:06   Maybe, maybe, maybe you're right. I think facts speak for themselves

00:31:10   and the fact that now it's basically impossible to use it on the watch

00:31:14   and on the iPhone you can delete the thing if you want. It suggests to me

00:31:18   that didn't go as planned. You can still send handwritten messages in iMessage though. Remember?

00:31:29   So what did we get? I went with a 42mm Space Gray with the Olive Sport Loop I think it's

00:31:38   called. The Olive Dark Olive or something.

00:31:40   So I went with the LTE stainless steel with the white sport band. My first gen, my original

00:31:48   Apple watch with stainless steel my series two is the space gray aluminum

00:31:52   and the the steel is much heavier so I actually pulled my my original Apple

00:31:58   watch out this week and kind of looking at it I really missed the way that it

00:32:02   looked so it's steel this time again huh so hopefully I get used to the weight

00:32:05   but regular stainless steel or black stainless yes regular shiny stainless

00:32:10   steel hmm okay interesting yeah back to my roots yep I I didn't buy a watch at

00:32:17   all because of it's not the cellular version is not out in Italy yet we I

00:32:22   think we're not gonna get it until next year whoa I saw some I saw someone on

00:32:27   Twitter's and I hope they're wrong I don't know where this person got their

00:32:31   information but it's not out in Italy yet so I really do want the cellular one

00:32:36   especially now that you know we we go you know walking with the dogs often and

00:32:42   I don't want to bring my phone it's heavy and it falls out of my pocket when

00:32:45   have to play with the dogs. So I really want the cellular Apple Watch but there's no point for me

00:32:51   in buying it now where my Series 2 is still working pretty well. It's actually fine, it's perfect.

00:32:57   But I want the cellular one so I'm gonna wait. And I guess it's worth seeing how people report on

00:33:04   and talk about and review the speed performances. I guess it's worth hearing what they're like before

00:33:11   buying one, right? Because if it is a thing where it's like "Oh my god, everything's different!"

00:33:17   then you might be like "Okay, maybe I'll get one of the GPS ones or whatever, right?"

00:33:20   because they're cheaper and whatever, but I would probably take the line that you're

00:33:25   taking of "If you can't get the cellular, then don't bother until you know otherwise."

00:33:30   Yeah, I mean I would buy the cellular model now and wait until it can be activated, but

00:33:39   It's not for sale at all.

00:33:41   And so like...

00:33:42   - Oh, you can't even, I mean, that makes sense.

00:33:45   - I cannot even buy it.

00:33:47   And I saw on, again, on Twitter that if you buy a seller one

00:33:52   from say the UK, it's not gonna work on the Italian network.

00:33:56   - Well, okay, but I think that that's only

00:33:59   once you activate it, right?

00:34:03   So like they don't roam, but I think it's,

00:34:07   I think it's, I would be surprised if that was the case.

00:34:11   I think it's the, you know you get those bands,

00:34:13   you know you gotta get your watch is gonna be

00:34:15   one of the ones of in the certain bands, right?

00:34:17   It's the same as when you buy an iPhone from abroad.

00:34:19   And then my expectation is once you have activated a plan,

00:34:24   you then, it's locked.

00:34:26   - You cannot change, okay, it's locked.

00:34:28   - 'Cause it doesn't roam, and that's my expectation.

00:34:31   Because when you go onto the page,

00:34:33   like you look at all the bands and the tech specs

00:34:36   and that sort of stuff,

00:34:37   There are similar model numbers that work on multiple countries, the same as an iPhone.

00:34:42   So I expect that's the way that it ends up working, but they just don't sell it for you there.

00:34:48   But yeah, that's how I assume.

00:34:51   But I don't know, but that would be my assumption just based upon the technical specs pages or whatever they are.

00:34:58   The two changes that I really want to try are, of course, the cellular stuff and Apple Music integration,

00:35:04   and Siri that is faster and speaks to you now.

00:35:07   That I'm really, I'm actually really excited

00:35:10   about the Siri change.

00:35:11   But I don't know when it's gonna come out in Italy,

00:35:14   so we'll see.

00:35:16   - Yeah, I haven't really spent any time

00:35:17   with watchOS 4 yet either.

00:35:19   'Cause as of the time of recording this,

00:35:22   it's not available like on the public track.

00:35:25   And I just, I stay away from putting the betas

00:35:29   on my watches because it feels like it's always a nightmare

00:35:32   of some description. So I stay away from those.

00:35:37   But eventually, well, within a few hours from now,

00:35:40   I will be trying out four, and then in a few days,

00:35:43   I'll be trying it on the new watch.

00:35:45   - Yeah, it's a lot of waiting this week.

00:35:47   Update your current watch to watch OS4,

00:35:49   which will take a long time.

00:35:50   And then back up and move your data to your new watch,

00:35:53   which also takes a long time.

00:35:55   Lots of waiting this week for Apple Watches.

00:35:57   - Yep.

00:35:59   which super quick, let's touch on the Apple TV 4K.

00:36:02   The HDR movies are available now,

00:36:07   so you can actually buy movies that are 4K HDR,

00:36:12   and if you have a new iPad Pro,

00:36:14   you can watch them in 1080p HDR,

00:36:16   and I bought Logan, the Wolverine movie,

00:36:20   and it looks good.

00:36:21   I mean, I haven't compared it to something else,

00:36:25   like to another device playing it,

00:36:27   but like the movie looked really good.

00:36:28   But yeah, I like the fact that my display on my iPad can do this stuff, so they're letting me.

00:36:36   I like that, that's cool.

00:36:38   Have you been blown away by the color, Myke?

00:36:41   Yeah.

00:36:43   Yeah? Does it look good?

00:36:45   I don't know, it burned my retina out, so...

00:36:48   But it was good that one time.

00:36:51   It was worth it, okay?

00:36:53   Yeah, it was a color overload.

00:36:55   But yeah, the Apple TV itself, I've ordered one of these as well because I have a 4K HDR

00:37:01   TV so I want to be able to watch all of the stuff that I'm going to watch on it when eventually

00:37:08   Amazon Prime comes to the Apple TV, which is apparently still happening later this year.

00:37:15   I will then be able to watch everything that I watch, mostly in, well all of it on the

00:37:20   Apple TV and a lot of it in 4K.

00:37:23   There is one holdout though, which is really interesting. The movie studio that is held

00:37:28   out and I guess follow up for Eddie Q, right? He did a free upgrade thing. We were talking

00:37:33   about Eddie Q a few weeks ago and if he was useful, well that seemed like a useful thing.

00:37:37   I assume that that's Eddie's mad skills and negotiations.

00:37:41   Yeah. We were talking, "Hey, maybe Eddie, his most important skill, most valuable asset

00:37:48   is how he's able to negotiate with the labels and with the industry and this should be the

00:37:52   answer that we were looking for. I mean this is a pretty sweet deal. It's one of my favorite

00:37:56   surprises from the keynote. You know, one of the smaller announcements that actually

00:38:01   I went like "huh, that's really well done". Because that felt like a given that we would

00:38:06   be paying a small amount. Best case scenario was "oh we'll pay a small amount of money

00:38:11   to upgrade them", right? Because there was always the risk of like "nah, you gotta buy

00:38:15   them again". So to get everything for free is great. But there is one surprising holdout

00:38:21   of all of the movie studios and that's Disney. Disney is the only major movie studio that

00:38:27   is not putting 4K HDR content on the Apple TV and I think I might know why. So I saw

00:38:35   some news a few weeks ago about the fact that Marvel and Star Wars, all of the Marvel and

00:38:43   Star Wars movies from here on out will be only streaming on Disney's own

00:38:49   platform, their own streaming service. I reckon these two things are related.

00:38:56   The 4k versions of the movies will only be available. They'd rather charge you 20

00:39:00   bucks a month than $20 every six months for a movie. Yep. It's a no-brainer.

00:39:04   It sucks though, I mean I've thought a lot about the Disney streaming thing

00:39:10   because I'm like pretty much their ideal customer right? Oh you'll be getting it

00:39:16   man. I have an Apple TV, I have disposable income, I spend on media, I have children who want to watch Disney movies, I like Star Wars and

00:39:25   Marvel movies so I'm probably gonna sign up for that. Yeah I mean I'm gonna but I

00:39:29   don't wanna because you know I'd rather just I'd rather spend the 20 or 24, 29

00:39:34   dollars and own it but it's just me. Yep. He said moving to Apple Music. But it's

00:39:38   like I am already subscribed to two streaming services. I don't now want to

00:39:42   start subscribing to streaming services of independent label, not labels, but like

00:39:47   movie studios, right? Like I don't want my Disney one and then my HBO one and

00:39:52   then my Netflix one and then my CBS one and then my BBC one. This is not a

00:39:57   thing that I want to be able to do because Netflix as it goes further and

00:40:01   further down the line is turning into that, right? Like Netflix is turning into

00:40:07   to you sign up for the Netflix content so it is becoming its own studio right

00:40:12   so as Netflix is now losing more third-party content they're all just

00:40:17   starting their own streaming services and I'm not keen on having like 20

00:40:22   different channels and having to pay $20 a month for all of them like that's not

00:40:27   we are we're currently watching an NBC show on Netflix and every time you start

00:40:33   it says hey this show comes off Netflix at the end of the month it's like we're

00:40:36   racing to finish watching this before it goes away.

00:40:42   Yeah, it's like we wanted to rewatch The Office, so I'm now buying The Office again

00:40:46   because it's not on any streaming platform in the UK.

00:40:49   It's kind of funny how, and it seems like history is again going to repeat itself, because

00:40:57   we had the solution to piracy, right?

00:41:01   You sign up for, either you buy stuff on iTunes and it's really easy, or you use Netflix and

00:41:08   it's really easy and people don't have the patience for torrents anymore because there's

00:41:12   this single service, you pay for it and it's done.

00:41:16   But now, because these companies are greedy and they want to make more money, they're

00:41:20   gonna split everything up into 20, 25 services.

00:41:23   And some people are gonna be like "Yeah, I don't wanna pay a subscription for 10 different

00:41:26   things every month, so guess what?

00:41:27   I'm gonna use torrents again.

00:41:28   And I'm gonna download stuff illegally. So it seems like the the media industry as a

00:41:34   real is really

00:41:36   talented in terms of

00:41:39   Messing everything up all over again

00:41:43   Would just when they had some kind of solution

00:41:46   they they have to ruin it all because money and I

00:41:51   Mean that is happening with music. It's happening with movies and TV shows. It's like I don't know where this is going

00:41:57   you cannot possibly expect people to pay for 10 different services every single month.

00:42:01   I don't know.

00:42:02   Are they gonna try?

00:42:05   And then it's all gonna break down again.

00:42:06   They are gonna, they are gonna, until someone comes along and says "hey you guys, I know

00:42:11   you're in trouble and guess what, we're gonna save you".

00:42:14   That's gonna be the iTunes Store situation all over again.

00:42:16   But for streaming, first you gotta let these companies simmer and understand their mistakes.

00:42:22   And then someone is gonna come along, you bet that someone is gonna come along and be

00:42:26   like "well".

00:42:27   Yeah, maybe. Maybe it's the second coming of Eddie. It's gonna be about saving the

00:42:35   media industry from streaming and different services. I can see that happen, actually.

00:42:40   So Federico, did you get an Apple TV?

00:42:44   No. I don't have a 4K TV. It's something on my shopping list for later this year. I

00:42:53   to get a 4K TV and I want to get a PlayStation 4 Pro and when I do that I'm also going to

00:42:58   get a 4K Apple TV but right now I don't have it so no point in getting one right now.

00:43:05   Steven?

00:43:06   I do not have a 4K TV so no Apple TV for me.

00:43:10   So neither of you wanted the updated Siri remote?

00:43:13   Oh yeah that ring around the mini button is really going to make a lot of difference.

00:43:17   There's a circle now.

00:43:19   I ordered one because I have a 4K TV and there's maple syrup in my Siri remote so...

00:43:26   I told you about this, right?

00:43:30   No, I didn't know...

00:43:31   I don't remember the story.

00:43:33   I spilled a little maple syrup on my Siri remote like a year ago and the buttons still

00:43:38   get stuck.

00:43:39   As everyone does.

00:43:40   Yeah, it's probably better than what it shipped by default.

00:43:45   It's just like I look for the extra sticky button and then that's the one that goes

00:43:49   on the right side.

00:43:50   That's how you say it. You fixed the design with some maple syrup, Myke.

00:43:54   That's all it takes, guys. Come on, that's all it takes. So next week on the show we'll

00:43:58   be talking, I guess, about our opinions. Well, Federico can listen in as me and Steven talk

00:44:04   about Apple watches and then you can all listen as I talk to you about how great the new screensavers

00:44:08   look.

00:44:09   Is that how people feel every single week when they listen to us?

00:44:12   What, excited?

00:44:13   to... no, they listen to other people's opinions in silence. I mean, I guess that's what a

00:44:19   podcast is. That's what it is. That's exactly what a podcast is. Have you ever listened

00:44:22   to a podcast before? Well, I make them. I don't listen to... no, I do listen. But yeah,

00:44:29   when you say it like that, it kind of makes me feel bad. Oh well. Would you want to leave

00:44:35   people a moment to say something to you right now? Yeah, I mean, you can text me, you can

00:44:40   and send me a Twitter message.

00:44:42   - How can they text you?

00:44:44   - A digital touch.

00:44:45   - Send me, yes, send me, you know,

00:44:48   there's actually people who find me on Telegram

00:44:52   and they send me good wishes on Telegram.

00:44:54   - That's nice. - That's nice.

00:44:56   - That is very nice.

00:44:57   It's mildly, it's right on the verge

00:45:00   of mildly creepy and nice.

00:45:03   I'm not sure if there's an objective to define that.

00:45:06   - Germans probably have a word.

00:45:08   - Yeah, I know.

00:45:09   Probably. So yeah.

00:45:11   Alright, well we're going to take a break now, but before we do, I'm going to leave

00:45:16   like just a couple of seconds now so like our listeners can say something to you Federico.

00:45:21   And then I'll thank FreshBooks.

00:45:24   Okay.

00:45:26   Alright, this episode is brought to you by FreshBooks. I hope everybody has something

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00:46:16   Then also you can go into each of the clients and you can see just how long it takes them

00:46:20   to pay you on average.

00:46:22   So you'll know whether it's worth bothering them or not because you'll be like, "Oh,

00:46:26   okay, I told them to pay in 30 days, but they take 35 days.

00:46:29   I'll give it a couple of extra days."

00:46:32   Also their notification center is a new feature of the brand new FreshBooks, it's like your

00:46:35   personal assistant. They will let you know whenever you log in, your lovely little assistant

00:46:40   will let you know what has changed in your business since you last logged in and what

00:46:43   needs to be dealt with pronto. So you can just go in and every time you go to FreshBooks

00:46:47   you just get the most important things that desire your attention.

00:46:50   FreshBooks have over 10 million users now, but they've managed to stay a pretty small

00:46:55   company. This is why Forbes said that on their best small companies of the year, they gave

00:47:00   them the title "Small Giant" which I love that phrase. I like to think of myself as

00:47:04   a small giant. If you're listening to this and you're still not using Freshbooks now

00:47:08   is the time to try it. They're offering an unrestricted 30 day free trial for listeners

00:47:12   of this show with no credit card required. All you have to do is go to Freshbooks.com/connected

00:47:17   and enter connected in the how did you hear about us section. I would just like to say

00:47:21   personally Freshbooks is so amazing I use it all the time, both me and Steven use it

00:47:25   every single week. I can attest to the amount of time that it has saved me. If I had to

00:47:30   do these invoices and send them out in any other way, I would probably lose my mind.

00:47:35   Just the creation of these documents in something like Pages or having to track the due dates

00:47:41   of all of this stuff, I think it's not even so much about the time that I've saved,

00:47:47   although that is great. I probably wanted to have just given up by now. I'd like to

00:47:51   thank FreshBooks for their support of this show, Real AFM and our business as well because

00:47:56   they're awesome and they help us out so much. Thank you FreshBooks.

00:48:00   I felt really special to send invoice 1000.

00:48:04   iOS 11 is out and with that comes the most important thing of the year which is Federico

00:48:10   Vitticci's iOS 11 review. Federico, congratulations, you did it again.

00:48:17   Thank you. It happened again. Yeah, thank you.

00:48:20   As we start talking about this, we'll talk about the review and then we're gonna kind

00:48:23   of round out today talking about a little bit about iOS 11 in general and some applications,

00:48:28   but the review is the thing that requires the most attention right now.

00:48:33   I would love some statistics from you, like words, time it took you to complete the review,

00:48:39   things like that.

00:48:40   Do you have any of that stuff to hand?

00:48:41   I would be really interested to know.

00:48:42   Yes, I actually do.

00:48:44   I can look them up for you right now.

00:48:48   So in terms of statistics for...

00:48:52   The word count is mostly similar to last year.

00:48:56   It's around 50,000 words.

00:49:01   And there's 38 videos and 358 links in the main body of the story.

00:49:15   I don't know.

00:49:16   Yes, I do know, and there are 251 images in the story.

00:49:22   Do you have a sense of how much time it took you in hours?

00:49:27   Yes, because I've been time tracking all of this in Toggl, and I set up a project for the Max Stories Review,

00:49:37   you divided in multiple tasks, like research, writing, editing, screenshots.

00:49:45   There's some time that is missing.

00:49:49   So this is a very close approximation of the work that I put into this.

00:49:56   I'm looking it up right now.

00:49:58   I still haven't reviewed this year.

00:50:00   It took me...

00:50:01   Let's see.

00:50:02   My name is Federico.

00:50:03   Yes.

00:50:04   Want to guess?

00:50:06   125 hours.

00:50:08   I'm gonna say over 200.

00:50:13   Yes.

00:50:14   211 hours.

00:50:16   Ha!

00:50:17   When prices rise down.

00:50:19   These are the hours that I saved in toggle.

00:50:25   For example, two days ago I forgot to time track the entire day and I probably worked 10 hours that day.

00:50:33   So it's around 200 and I would say 230 hours.

00:50:39   Let's say that I didn't track 20 of them.

00:50:42   And I have a breakdown here.

00:50:45   It says 16 hours in June, which I don't believe.

00:50:49   There's probably 10 hours missing.

00:50:52   90 hours in July.

00:50:55   62 hours in August.

00:50:58   And 42 hours, again probably 10 missing in September.

00:51:02   Yeah. It's a big project. It's a lot of my time, yes.

00:51:09   How did it feel this year to write the review?

00:51:12   It felt better. It felt like the words were coming out more easily, especially when I got to the iPad chapter.

00:51:24   I struggled last year, coming from iOS 9, there was such a huge iPad release. iOS 10 required me to change, to switch gears and to change the way that I was talking about iOS.

00:51:39   Because it was this kind of consumer update with messages, with Apple Music, and that is not my forte, I would say.

00:51:47   And so I had to learn a different skill. How do I talk about these apps? How do I talk about these services?

00:51:53   And this year it was kind of a return to form in the sense that I'm back to talking about iPad productivity

00:52:00   and I'm talking about these changes to multitasking and all this stuff.

00:52:04   So I had to go back to the way that I was looking at iOS two years ago in 2015 with iOS 9.

00:52:12   And I was talking about this with you and with Silvio a few days ago.

00:52:17   I don't remember what it was like in July.

00:52:20   So after my notes were complete and my mind map was done and was waiting for me.

00:52:25   I remember that in two weeks in July

00:52:30   I wrote most of the review.

00:52:32   But if you ask me do you remember the exact moment when you went from a blank page to the chapter?

00:52:37   I don't remember because the way that I write is I

00:52:41   take a lot of notes. I think about it a lot.

00:52:45   I create a mind map and I think and I think and I think until I sit down, I close the door on my bedroom studio and I write for six to seven to eight hours straight.

00:52:58   And so it's that kind of process that just happens.

00:53:02   Yeah.

00:53:03   And what I do, what I can tell you to answer your question is that I felt better writing

00:53:10   this one than last year's review because writing the iPad section made me happy.

00:53:17   And that was a major difference from iOS 10.

00:53:22   Because I guess there was more in it for you to be personally excited about.

00:53:28   probably made it a lot more fun to actually write.

00:53:32   Yes, it's partly fun. But the other part is, you know, there's some folks who will see these stories as manuals or guides.

00:53:44   And sure, there's explanations of how things work. That is, I believe, the nature of a technical review.

00:53:54   You can't just tell people there's this feature and I have this opinion.

00:53:58   At least I wouldn't feel good about it to just have opinions without explaining why or how.

00:54:03   And the way that the iPad chapter made me feel is it was fun to play with and it was fun to learn.

00:54:11   But also it allowed me to present my opinions in a way that I could have the evidence to present those opinions.

00:54:20   I could have more material to go about.

00:54:24   Whereas last year, sure, I could talk about iMessage.

00:54:31   And I had fun, but I didn't feel as good as I felt this year talking about the iPad.

00:54:37   Because this is what I do on iOS.

00:54:41   And so it was a chance for me to share all these opinions that I had bottled up.

00:54:46   bottled up all these thoughts in one single huge story and that made me feel good about it.

00:54:53   I think that really comes off in the review, I mean, let alone the fact that what percentage of the review is the iPad section?

00:55:01   It's probably close to like a third, if not more, I would assume?

00:55:06   So the iPad chapter, I'm not good at math Myke, I would say it's about 35?

00:55:16   Yeah.

00:55:17   30% of the review.

00:55:18   Yeah, one third of the review is the iPad.

00:55:21   Yeah.

00:55:22   I mean and that really comes off, I mean in the conclusion and the introduction, there

00:55:29   are sections throughout even that are outside of the iPad chapter that are all focusing

00:55:36   on the iPad, right? I mean, and you call it yourself that this is an iPad release again.

00:55:41   That's what iOS 11, it has a lot of things in it, but it shines best on the iPad, at

00:55:48   least from the features that Apple shipped.

00:55:50   Yes.

00:55:51   Right, because there's stuff like ARKit and things like that, like they exist, but that's

00:55:55   not what the review is about because there was nothing in iOS 11 itself from a consumer

00:56:01   perspective that you could really talk about there.

00:56:04   Exactly. There's no... I debated having, for example, a ARKit as a chapter, a standalone chapter in the review.

00:56:14   And instead I put it as a section inside everything else, because to me that's what it is.

00:56:18   It's a major feature of iOS 11, but it's not made by Apple. Technically it is part of the OS, but it's also not, unless you go on the App Store and download a bunch of apps.

00:56:30   apps. So when it comes to the stuff that is baked into the OS, so if I buy a new

00:56:36   iPhone or a new iPad and there's iOS 11 on it, what do I get? And this is what

00:56:41   you get. The stuff that I talk about in the review, this is what you get when you

00:56:44   do a clean install and you have no apps. This is what there is on iOS 11.

00:56:50   So I always try to take that approach. I don't talk about the iPhone X. I don't

00:56:54   talk about future features that my readers cannot try. I don't talk about

00:56:59   about third party apps too much. I do mention third party apps as examples of APIs and technologies

00:57:06   applied to iOS 11, but I don't review them. For that reason, I don't talk about ARKit

00:57:13   too much because we'll have to see how it goes with third party developers on the App

00:57:17   Store. I know that other reviews are probably going to focus on ARKit a lot. I guess some

00:57:25   Publications are gonna make their iOS 11 reviews mostly about ARKit and I think that's fair

00:57:31   But from from my perspective, it's not the kind of review that I wanted to have

00:57:35   yeah, because I think I think review is a

00:57:39   It's a tough word for what you do

00:57:43   And I think this is where a lot of people

00:57:46   Stumble when they see you know

00:57:49   the many many many words is I

00:57:53   I have been referring to it as like a comprehensive review as maybe a way to describe it, but it is part

00:57:58   Review in the sense of the idea of here is my opinion about this stuff

00:58:03   but it's also a

00:58:06   In-depth look at everything

00:58:11   Yes, and there shouldn't be

00:58:15   many of those

00:58:17   right, there should be one or two of those that are published because

00:58:21   Because nobody can read 10 publications writing about every single feature of iOS.

00:58:29   But I mean look, I'm biased, but I think we can all agree here, everybody here believes

00:58:34   you're the best person to do this, because you understand iOS at a level that is greater

00:58:41   than most people that are writing about this type of stuff in our industry.

00:58:46   you use it to a greater extent than anybody else. But yeah, it's like, but it

00:58:53   is both of those things and I think that the word "review" puts it in a corner

00:58:59   that I don't think is fair to what you produce.

00:59:02   Well, to me the difference is quite simple. When you buy a TV and you

00:59:07   open the box and you take out the manual, the manual has no opinions, has no

00:59:11   thoughts, has no personality. And it's just a manual. And honestly, when someone refers

00:59:17   to my stuff as a manual, I find that mildly offensive.

00:59:21   Because it's not a manual. It's not a manual.

00:59:23   It's not a... Like, calling it a manual honestly diminishes myself and what I do for a living.

00:59:30   Yes, I do talk about every single feature, every single detail, because that's what I

00:59:33   like to do. But I do so... At least I hope that it comes through. I try to do so with

00:59:39   my personal opinion, my personal thoughts. It's why I write in the first person. It's

00:59:44   why the review, yes, it's comprehensive. Yes, it's not the usual review. And, you know,

00:59:53   to me, it would be a manual if, you know, the guide that you buy from Apple is a manual

00:59:59   that you download from the iBook store. That's manual. They have no opinions. They just say

01:00:03   that everything is fantastic because it's Apple. We can debate on whether I'm right or I'm wrong.

01:00:13   I don't think it's about that. And we go over this every single year. Obviously, there's people who

01:00:19   don't like long form. There's people who do. And there's people who want audio. And we made them

01:00:23   happy this year, I hope. There's people who want ebooks. And there's also an option for that.

01:00:31   I don't even remember what the question was anymore, Myke.

01:00:33   Well, I was just saying that, I don't even know how I got here now, but I was just saying that I

01:00:39   find either guide and review to not do a good job of explaining what you do, because I think it's

01:00:48   both and it's more then, right? Because you do explain all the features like a guide would,

01:00:54   but you put your spin on it and your opinion in it and your personality in it like a review,

01:01:00   But people who are coming at it for a guide or coming at it for a review, they're getting

01:01:04   more and both.

01:01:05   Like it's, you know what I mean?

01:01:06   I feel like there isn't a word for it.

01:01:08   But I think my original point was, there shouldn't be though because there shouldn't be a lot

01:01:12   of them.

01:01:14   This is something that you really have to live with and it's something that not a lot

01:01:20   of people will be able to produce.

01:01:23   And if you look at like the reviews that are most similar to yours are obviously Syracuse's

01:01:30   Mac OS reviews, his OS X reviews.

01:01:34   And the way that you write a review like this is by that's all you do.

01:01:39   And John didn't write anything else during this period of time, if ever in a year, he

01:01:44   would write these.

01:01:46   And it's similar like over the summer, you don't write anything else really, other

01:01:50   than this.

01:01:51   This is what you write.

01:01:52   And I think that's why not every publication should or can do something like this, because

01:01:58   you've got to be in a position where you can devote somebody's entire working life, effectively,

01:02:03   to thinking, eating, sleeping, living this thing. Because you wrote a book, right? Like,

01:02:11   it's book length. That's what you did. You turned out the amount of words that go into

01:02:15   a book, which turns it into entertainment and a resource. And I know that having, uh,

01:02:23   I think this is the first time I have read one of your iOS, of the three that I have

01:02:28   read every single word of your review, but I also find that to be mostly okay because

01:02:34   there are chapters that I am not interested in, so I wouldn't read them. And I think that

01:02:40   that's mostly fine. Like for example, the Safari chapter. I don't use Safari. Or the

01:02:45   the Apple Mail chapter. I don't use it. Like, I don't care.

01:02:47   Well, they're really small ones though. They are really small. They are really small.

01:02:52   But do you know what I mean? So there is an element of it where, like, if you were to

01:02:57   write a review of any of the apps that are about to come out, they're different. Because

01:03:04   they're less guides and it's more just like, here is everything that I liked in this thing

01:03:09   and here's whether I think you should buy it or not. And you do that with iOS 11. Like,

01:03:13   is everything I like about this and here's my opinions, but also here is all the disinformation.

01:03:18   So I'm trying to give a compliment to you here, but just say that it is a unique,

01:03:25   that there aren't a lot of things that are like this.

01:03:27   It's called review, I think, because we don't have a better word for it. And I think it's

01:03:38   a comprehensive, a long form, and I see it as, "Okay, sit down and open this book and read this

01:03:46   website or listen to this audiobook and let's go over every single change in iOS 11." And this is

01:03:51   what I think. Is that a review? Is that a guide? Is that something in between? I don't know, but

01:03:57   people seem to tune in for it. And I agree that colony just review doesn't represent exactly what

01:04:06   it is but maybe the point is it doesn't need to be it just is you know like a review either is or

01:04:16   it isn't right that's it's it's a it's it's a schrodinger's review it you know what what is it

01:04:22   really nobody can be a reviewer not until you open it all right you mentioned the audiobook a couple

01:04:27   of times yeah let's get into this a little bit um so mike you recorded it it's your voice your

01:04:36   voice over the course of, it's five hours long?

01:04:39   - Five hours and 22 minutes.

01:04:42   - You, reading the review, there's characters in it,

01:04:44   you do voice, no I'm just kidding, you don't do voices.

01:04:48   - There are characters though.

01:04:49   - Why is this, why this edition Federico,

01:04:53   why did you want to add this component to it?

01:04:55   - There's two reasons.

01:04:57   The first one is Myke.

01:04:59   Every single year, usually when we're flying to WWDC

01:05:03   or we're talking to each other and he goes,

01:05:05   you know, you should really have an audiobook option.

01:05:09   And every year I go like, but there's no time,

01:05:11   how can I add an extra product to the things

01:05:16   that we work on in the summer?

01:05:17   I don't have enough people to help me.

01:05:19   It's not something that I have the time to deal with.

01:05:21   And the second reason is, Meg

01:05:26   Stories readers and people who follow us,

01:05:27   there's a good percentage of them that every year they go

01:05:30   like, you know, I actually really wish there was a way

01:05:32   to listen to this because I have the time to listen I don't have the time to sit down

01:05:36   and read. And I always found that interesting and I also found Myke's argument interesting

01:05:46   because he sure made a good point. And this year I guess the stars aligned in that we

01:05:52   have a we're a small team but we're growing every year and this year we had Ryan helping

01:05:58   us and you know, the WWDC was a week earlier, Apple did the event a week later than we expected

01:06:06   and it was a combination of timing and the Maxories team was bigger and Myke's arguments

01:06:14   were very convincing and also I had an extra week to write in July so I was like

01:06:20   let's just try and see what happens. So I think either when we were coming back from WWDC or maybe

01:06:28   in San Jose or maybe when I was already in Italy. I don't remember but around that time before or

01:06:34   during or after WWDC I told Myke let's do the audiobook and he seemed to be happy. I don't

01:06:42   know if he was happy later on when he was reading the book but initially I don't know if he hates

01:06:49   me now but initially at least he was really happy about the idea. So what does that process look

01:06:55   like? I assume that this was recorded pretty late in the game, right? So all the sections were done.

01:07:01   Kind of where did this fall into the workflow that you'd already established,

01:07:07   since this is not your first review? So obviously there were a new kind of

01:07:14   collaboration to consider, because Myke told me that it was going to be free a couple of weeks

01:07:21   in August and then we thought we were gonna have a week or ten days in September to finish everything.

01:07:28   Obviously I didn't want to send drafts to Myke like stuff that I would have to considerably

01:07:35   change later. Yeah this was something that we spoke about very early on that drafts were pointless

01:07:41   for me. Yes. Because I can't do anything with a draft because so much is going to change that I

01:07:49   would be wasting my time in the first recording.

01:07:53   There were changes made to pre-recorded audio, but these were small changes, or I would change

01:07:59   a whole section.

01:08:00   But so many small and big changes would have to be made if I recorded any draft audio,

01:08:06   that it would make the recording of the first audio pointless.

01:08:09   So we had to wait for things to be completed before I could do anything with them.

01:08:15   Yeah.

01:08:16   And so what I did was I sort of changed my workflow around Myke.

01:08:24   From a technical perspective, I was writing my review in Ulysses and I organized chapters

01:08:31   as individual sheets in the app.

01:08:35   So as I was marking something as edited, I sent the draft to Ryan.

01:08:45   And after going through each chapter six or seven times, I marked the chapter as "finalize

01:08:53   for Myke".

01:08:54   Actually, Myke was a keyword in my Ulysses.

01:08:57   When something was tagged as Myke, it meant that Myke had received the chapter, and so

01:09:03   I could move on.

01:09:05   I also used Myke as a filter in Ulysses.

01:09:07   So I used Myke for automation, really.

01:09:11   The moral of the story is Myke makes for some excellent workflows.

01:09:19   The big change to sum up was instead of treating the review as a big single text file, it was

01:09:28   edited multiple times over and over in chunks and then later on again multiple times as

01:09:34   a single file.

01:09:35   But to make the audiobook happen I needed to edit for like two weeks, three weeks, all

01:09:46   the chapters until iPad basically.

01:09:50   And I finished iPad and I sent the iPad chapter and all the remaining ones, but those were

01:09:56   shorter to Myke in early September.

01:09:58   That's a lie.

01:09:59   But the...

01:10:00   Yep, go on.

01:10:01   That they were not shorter?

01:10:02   They were not shorter.

01:10:03   All of the longest chapters were the second half that you sent me. So like files was in

01:10:10   there and apps. Files, apps and iPad are the longest chapters. At least in PDF page count

01:10:22   I believe that they were the longest. But there were, there were, I basically we arranged

01:10:28   this that I would kind of tackle it in two chunks. I would be recording some in America

01:10:33   and some when I got back home again. And I recorded, I think, nine out of 18 chapters

01:10:39   in America. And I came home to the thought that, like, great, only 50% of the work left

01:10:45   to go. It was probably like a good 60 to 70% of the work was still left to be done, just

01:10:53   from a pure time perspective for me for what needed to be recorded, just because the iPad

01:10:58   chapter and some of the surrounding chapters in the second half of the chapters, which

01:11:05   is not the second half of the book, right? Like, I did nine chapters and then nine chapters,

01:11:10   but they came through slightly out of order. But the later chapters that were sent to me

01:11:15   were the longest, which was a fun thing to realise, but I was also blessed with the extra

01:11:22   week. I could have done it, and I planned to do it all in a week, just in case, but

01:11:28   Then when the Apple event was announced,

01:11:30   I was able to give myself a little bit more breathing room,

01:11:33   which was welcome.

01:11:36   - So you were recording basically in sections

01:11:41   as Federico had them ready for you.

01:11:43   You kind of were able to move through,

01:11:45   it's not like you sat down on a Monday

01:11:48   and recorded for five hours.

01:11:49   - No, there's no way. - And then it stopped

01:11:50   and you were done.

01:11:51   - There's absolutely no way I could have done it.

01:11:53   - Yeah.

01:11:54   - I mean, there were times where I was sitting

01:11:55   and talking to a microphone for an hour, like just me,

01:11:58   And I hadn't realized the difference between a podcast and a narration project.

01:12:07   Because there are a few things that are different, but they make for a incredibly

01:12:13   different experience.

01:12:15   One of them is the fact that on none of my shows do I talk for the entire time, right?

01:12:20   Like there is conversation.

01:12:21   The other is the way that I'm talking to you guys right now, I'm just talking.

01:12:25   We're just, we're just talking.

01:12:26   We're having a conversation.

01:12:28   But reading and repeating and going back and fixing things and talking over myself and repeating lines repeating lines

01:12:35   and trying to like maintain a specific tone and pitch that is

01:12:40   Much harder than I had initially anticipated it would be

01:12:44   um, and I was very surprised how

01:12:48   I would finish a 45 minute recording session and I would be hoarse

01:12:54   In a way that I am never

01:12:57   after recording podcasts. It was a very different experience for me.

01:13:03   As a fun fact, every single chapter, bar one was recorded in one sitting. iPad took three sittings.

01:13:11   Everything else was done in one and the maximum time was an hour each,

01:13:19   would be the maximum for them and they would go anywhere from like 10 minutes to an hour.

01:13:23   But iPad took three, done over two days, I think it was, two or three days.

01:13:32   And that was what I got because we had extra time, otherwise iPad would have been all done

01:13:36   in one day and I would have died.

01:13:39   So you recorded this, I assume that you did the editing as well.

01:13:44   So um's and ah's taken now, is it real tight?

01:13:46   How was that process?

01:13:47   And I'm curious how much time the edit took versus the narration.

01:13:52   So it's interesting because the edit took longer than I expected because I thought I

01:13:58   was giving myself a, I thought I'd come up with an ingenious system. So when I edit a

01:14:05   podcast like the one we're doing right now, I will make notes of the things that need

01:14:12   to be fixed later on. And what that does is it means that it takes me about half of the

01:14:17   recorded time to edit and publish a show. A show where I listen through to the entire

01:14:24   thing, so something like Cortex, and edit it, it takes me about 1.5 to 2 minutes for

01:14:29   every minute recorded. So if something lasts an hour, it will take me like an hour and

01:14:34   a half to two hours to edit it. So I figured to myself, what I would do is I would record

01:14:39   directly into Logic and I will drop markers in the Logic project of all of the places

01:14:44   is where I screw up and then all I need to do is just go and fix those. You screw up

01:14:51   a lot, a lot when you're reading, like a lot. Especially because for I reckon about 90%

01:14:59   of the book, the first time I'd read any of the words was the time that I was recording

01:15:04   them. So there were many parts of the book that were, I had read multiple times because

01:15:11   they had to be recorded multiple times because I was unhappy with how I was reading them,

01:15:17   right? Or like something just wasn't going the way I was expecting so I had to go back

01:15:20   and redo it because I was unhappy with it. It ended up still taking me one and a half

01:15:27   to two minutes for every recorded minute, even with this different process because there

01:15:34   were many, many more edit points than I was expecting in every chapter and they were difficult

01:15:40   edits. You know, there are many parts where one half of a word and the second half of

01:15:48   a word were recorded during different times and that was just the best place to stitch

01:15:53   them. That is a very, very difficult thing to do convincingly in a way that you wouldn't

01:16:00   notice. But that was a way. So like, you know, I would start the word iPad and half of it

01:16:06   would have been recorded at one point and the second half of it was recorded 10 minutes

01:16:10   later but I had to redo it and stitch them back together again. So it was a tricky edit

01:16:16   and also I had to make sure that I was picking up everything that was needed whenever I was

01:16:20   making an edit to make sure that I got all the parts that I needed to get.

01:16:24   So yeah, the edit process took a very long time and then once everything was edited it

01:16:30   was all sent back to Ryan and Federico and then they would go through and there would

01:16:34   be things that I still needed to go and change or things that they weren't happy with or

01:16:37   or just words that I just flat out said wrong, right?

01:16:40   Like, just, you know, meant to say complicated

01:16:43   and I say conjugated.

01:16:44   Like, you know, it could be anything

01:16:45   'cause you're just reading, right?

01:16:46   And it's like, who knows what might come out.

01:16:48   And sometimes these words changed

01:16:51   the meaning of it completely.

01:16:53   You know, there were, sometimes I would say can't

01:16:55   instead of can, right?

01:16:57   And then it's like, well now I've changed the meaning

01:16:59   of this entire sentence or this paragraph.

01:17:02   So there was lots of them that had to be changed.

01:17:04   There were lots of things that we had to go back

01:17:06   and agree upon.

01:17:08   There were parts of the review that I had to ad lib

01:17:11   and change because they didn't make sense otherwise.

01:17:13   So that was a fun thing to try and work out.

01:17:16   Like trying to read aloud strings of code doesn't work.

01:17:19   So you have to try and find like a way to explain them

01:17:23   or like things I have never, I'm very aware now

01:17:27   of how putting things in brackets or parentheses

01:17:32   can significantly change the way something sounds

01:17:35   when you read it aloud and trying to find ways to like twist sentences and paragraphs

01:17:42   around where I can to make sure that you can still be followed and be understood.

01:17:46   All of that stuff was was was a big challenge.

01:17:48   It was an interesting challenge.

01:17:50   It was a fun challenge, but it was a big one.

01:17:51   And my time.

01:17:54   So it took me 33 hours in total to record, edit and master the five hour audio book.

01:18:04   That's a bunch of time. I agree with you. Narration is much harder than it seems. Several years ago,

01:18:11   I narrated a documentary and it was extremely difficult, extremely time-consuming. And yeah,

01:18:20   I thought going into it, well, I podcast several times a week. I can just go do this. And it is

01:18:28   not that way at all. So I'm glad that you got to experience that. For me, it was a real eye-opener

01:18:33   about that other types of vocal work besides just what we do and I know it

01:18:37   was made a little bit worse because you had travel and then you were sick and so

01:18:42   I know we the three of us were talking about that like do you record now and

01:18:45   see if you feel better in the later of the week or what if you feel worse like

01:18:48   I know there were a bunch of moving parts there to get it done at the end

01:18:51   but I am so I have I've read the review I have not heard the review I'm super

01:18:57   excited to to dive into the audiobook Federico is the audiobook for everyone

01:19:03   one? Is it club Max Stories members only? How is all this stuff working?

01:19:08   So the review as an ebook is available for free to club members. So this year, because

01:19:19   we're doing the audiobook as a separate project, the audiobook is available at $9.99. We set

01:19:24   up a Gumroad page where you can go and buy the audiobook. But if you're a club member,

01:19:31   You can take advantage of a 60% discount.

01:19:36   So you can apply a promo code that is available to you in your profile area on the Cloud Max

01:19:44   Stories webpage and you can get the audiobook at $3.99.

01:19:48   So that's $6 off.

01:19:50   And I thought about this for a long time because obviously the costs and it wouldn't justify

01:19:57   making these a free, like another free perk for everybody.

01:20:01   - 'Cause I ain't cheap kids.

01:20:02   - We're doing free perks.

01:20:05   We are doing actually even more free stuff this year.

01:20:08   It's gonna be a making of,

01:20:09   there's gonna be an episode of app stories just for members,

01:20:12   a bunch of stuff.

01:20:14   But this one had to be a separate thing.

01:20:16   Also because it's something that not everybody wants.

01:20:20   But I also wanted to give a discount to members

01:20:23   and hopefully that will work out fine.

01:20:27   - Please buy the audio book

01:20:31   because Federico worked really hard on the words

01:20:36   and I worked really hard on the audio

01:20:38   and I think that it is a really great way to consume it.

01:20:43   I mean, the reason the book exists

01:20:45   is because I wanted it to exist

01:20:47   and then I have tried to twist Federico's arm

01:20:51   and then eventually just said,

01:20:52   I'll read it if that means that you'll do it because I for someone like me it's it is a much

01:20:58   easier way to get through the book like I would I would struggle and I do struggle to sit and and

01:21:05   read for really really long periods of time and to be able to listen which I'm assuming everybody

01:21:11   that is hearing me right now enjoys listening to things I think that it is a really nice way

01:21:17   to consume it. And there's chapters, I put audio, MP3 chapters in the books, all the

01:21:22   big chapters, all the big sections, you can skip around and listen to the parts that you want.

01:21:26   It was a big project and I think, and we all worked really hard on it and I think that shows

01:21:32   and I think that people should check it out. And if you're a Club Max Stories member, it's really

01:21:36   not a large amount of money at all. I mean, $10 is not much or $9.99. Do you say it was $9.99?

01:21:43   Yes.

01:21:44   Yeah, that's not a lot of money, but like $3.99 is barely anything.

01:21:49   And there's a, you know, I'll tell you the tricks, because Federico won.

01:21:54   If you sign up for a month of Clubmanx stories and buy the book, you're still cheaper than

01:21:59   if you just buy the book outright.

01:22:00   So think about that one, kids.

01:22:03   There's a Myke Hurley brand life hack.

01:22:07   You get the ebook and you get the audiobook and you get the making of this week.

01:22:13   Myke and I and Sam and Ryan are gonna talk about the behind the scenes of the review

01:22:19   and you get an episode of App Stories Unplugged and you get all the back archives.

01:22:23   Is that what it's called?

01:22:24   Are you called it unplugged?

01:22:25   Yes, yes, it's called App Stories Unplugged.

01:22:31   That's awesome.

01:22:32   Because you go for longer, right?

01:22:33   I guess that's the unplugged nature of it.

01:22:35   Yeah, it's not half an hour all of them.

01:22:37   Yeah, yeah.

01:22:38   There's a guitar in the background.

01:22:40   Yeah.

01:22:42   And you also got all the back archives of Club Max Stories going back two years.

01:22:48   And you're still cheaper than if you just bought the audiobook.

01:22:51   So do that.

01:22:53   Yeah.

01:22:54   Alright.

01:22:55   So that's it, the iOS 11 review.

01:22:58   It is now available in multiple formats, brought to you by multiple people.

01:23:04   It is a wonder to behold.

01:23:05   Having read every single word, Federico, this is your best review.

01:23:10   Because it is all of the personality of the first one combined with everything you learn

01:23:15   doing it a second time.

01:23:17   And then you add on to everything you learn doing it a third time and like, you know,

01:23:21   your real excitement for everything comes through and you've clearly perfected your

01:23:26   methods because this one is sublime and you did a fantastic job.

01:23:31   Thank you, thank you, appreciate it.

01:23:33   Plus just one last little mape thing.

01:23:35   There are some easter eggs in the audiobook version that do not exist in the written version.

01:23:40   five points to the first person who can tell me all of them. I know what they are.

01:23:45   I think there are three.

01:23:47   Wait, what are points?

01:23:49   I just give people points. I just assign mic points.

01:23:52   Can you redeem them later? What do you get with mic points?

01:23:58   Hugs.

01:23:59   That doesn't...

01:24:01   You know, we should actually do mic points as a regular thing on Connected

01:24:06   that maybe eventually when we do the WWDC shows, the people with the most points, they

01:24:11   actually do get something.

01:24:12   Alright, yeah, okay. So this is the beginning of the mic point system.

01:24:16   The mic point, okay!

01:24:18   It's like the house point system for Harry Potter, but more advanced.

01:24:23   Yes!

01:24:24   So the first five mic points go to the person that can tell me the three easter eggs that

01:24:31   I can remember.

01:24:32   Alright.

01:24:33   You know, I also should say there are many history eggs also in the written version,

01:24:43   especially in the screenshots.

01:24:46   And I'm just going to say there's a recrawl in the review.

01:24:50   You know, the recastly video.

01:24:52   There isn't one in the audio, don't worry.

01:24:55   So I challenge the readers of the review to find the video and see if you can, you need

01:25:04   to be creative.

01:25:05   So I want to see who the first person is.

01:25:08   You will also get a mic point just by me.

01:25:10   One?

01:25:11   Just one?

01:25:12   We are allowed to assign mic points on your behalf if you agree upon the assignment of

01:25:17   the mic points.

01:25:18   Yes, that's true.

01:25:19   That is true.

01:25:20   So I will give five, Federico for some reason is only giving one.

01:25:24   It seems like Federico's job is way harder.

01:25:26   Alright, we should actually just finish up today by talking a little bit about iOS 11.

01:25:32   Before we do that, let me take a moment to thank our final sponsor for this week and

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01:26:21   worked with one of their stylists? It's true. One of the items I wanted was a

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01:26:48   that experience. Yeah super easy you go through you pick some stuff that you

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01:28:01   I love that. Open and clothes is brilliant right? That's such a good tagline. We thank

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01:28:16   iOS 11, I mean, I think it's fair to say it's came across just through the word

01:28:21   count discussion.

01:28:22   It's an iPad release, like it's iPad.

01:28:25   Like there's a lot of cool things in here, but drag and drop files, the doc,

01:28:30   multitasking changes, all those amazing screenshot features, like all of the

01:28:35   really great stuff either exists only on iPad or is best on iPad, right?

01:28:40   Is that fair to say?

01:28:41   I think so.

01:28:44   especially with the dock and the spaces

01:28:48   and drag and drop between apps,

01:28:50   I really do believe that the best features

01:28:52   in iOS 11 are for the iPad, yeah.

01:28:55   - I mean, it's totally changed the way

01:28:58   that I get my work done.

01:28:59   I mean, I haven't really, I haven't spent actually any time

01:29:01   with iOS 11 on an iPhone,

01:29:03   but over the last three months on my iPad,

01:29:08   even without the ability to use drag and drop

01:29:11   in third-party apps, or even without the ability

01:29:13   to use files app for file providers.

01:29:16   It just, the doc and all of the multitasking enhancements

01:29:21   has just completely changed the way I get my work done.

01:29:23   - When you get to the point where all of your apps

01:29:26   are taking advantage of drag and drop

01:29:28   and we're gonna see those updates this week.

01:29:31   It takes a few weeks, I think, to really get into it, but.

01:29:35   - Hopefully quicker than split view.

01:29:38   - Hopefully quicker than that,

01:29:39   but you get into the point where

01:29:43   Now, at least now I expect to be able to use drag and drop everywhere.

01:29:48   And when it does not work, that's a problem.

01:29:51   And I assume that's going to be a problem, for example, with some Google apps, which

01:29:55   we'll see if they ever get, you know, these kind of updates within the iOS 11 release cycle.

01:30:00   Let's start the timer now. Google Docs and Google Sheets. We're starting the timer now.

01:30:05   How long is it going to take them to get drag and drop support? We'll see.

01:30:09   And I think, you know, there's some aspects that I'm still not sure about, like spaces could have

01:30:16   been done a little bit better, drag and drop can sometimes be a little, like, not so easily

01:30:23   discoverable. And of course there's still the missing shelf. I really would have liked to see

01:30:31   a shelf type feature for iPad drag and drop, but overall it's such an amazing release and how it

01:30:38   changes multitasking with the dock, like how you drag and you create a split view, you

01:30:43   create slider over and you move, you flick apps back and forth.

01:30:49   Going back to iOS 10 now feels super weird to me.

01:30:52   I had to go back to take some screenshots and I was like, "How do I even open apps now?

01:30:56   I have to go back to the home screen every single time."

01:31:01   That change alone, you don't have to go back to the home screen for most of your interactions.

01:31:06   such a major difference from iOS 10. There's also stuff on the iPhone. SiriKit will be nice. I'm

01:31:12   seeing a bunch of apps receive integration with Siri, especially if you have a note-taking app or

01:31:18   a to-do list app. That's going to be nice. The design changes are still... I still don't understand

01:31:24   what Apple is doing. They're not committed to unify the design yet. So we have the iOS 10 design,

01:31:31   We have the iOS 11 design with the big bold headlines and the large titles and then we have thicker icons

01:31:37   We have thinner icons

01:31:39   It still seems like there's two design schools within Apple and one will have to event eventually win over the other

01:31:46   We'll see but on the the iPhone is a nice release

01:31:50   I mean a our kit will be awesome with third-party apps

01:31:52   But if you just take the OS itself, you know, you install iOS 11 on iPhone and on an iPad

01:31:59   We cannot agree that on the iPad. It's where you can see the biggest changes

01:32:03   So Steven, I know you've been using it on your iPhone as well

01:32:06   Have you got any impression of the things that you like about iOS 11 on your phone?

01:32:12   Yeah, I mean I totally agree with you guys. It's an iPad focused release

01:32:18   Some of the drag-and-drop stuff is nice within apps that just kind of kind of makes reordering things with an apps more

01:32:25   uniform across the system, even though there's a little bit

01:32:28   of a delay when you're gonna pick the cell up and stuff.

01:32:30   I think that being more similar across all my apps

01:32:34   eventually will be nice.

01:32:36   But yeah, it's not a huge game changer on the phone.

01:32:43   I mean, there's niceties for sure.

01:32:44   I like, for instance, having notes in Control Center

01:32:48   that makes creating a new note very fast.

01:32:51   I was very unsure of the Control Center design,

01:32:54   but I've really come around to it

01:32:56   once you kind of understand its system.

01:33:00   But yeah, it's a fine iPhone release,

01:33:05   but it's not groundbreaking by any means.

01:33:09   - Yeah, I guess a lot of that stuff's still

01:33:10   to come with third-party apps,

01:33:12   and I'm really keen to see how,

01:33:15   over the next couple of weeks,

01:33:17   if and how our opinions change with AR.

01:33:21   And I've tried a couple of AR apps,

01:33:22   and on the whole I find using AR apps on the iPad,

01:33:27   'cause I've not tried any on my iPhone,

01:33:29   to be a clunky experience 'cause the screens are too big.

01:33:33   I really think that mostly AR

01:33:34   is probably gonna shine on the iPhone.

01:33:37   So I'm very keen to see how that goes

01:33:41   as the next couple of weeks progress

01:33:44   and more and more fun experiences for ARKit come out.

01:33:50   - Yeah, yeah, it definitely seems like

01:33:53   the release is setting the stage

01:33:55   and we're gonna see what developers have planned.

01:33:58   I think it will get better over time.

01:34:00   - But it's not perfect.

01:34:03   I mean, I have a couple of things

01:34:05   that I know that bug other people, bug me,

01:34:11   'cause one of the big ones,

01:34:13   iPad multitasking is divisive.

01:34:17   And I understand why because it's very different.

01:34:24   It is a burn it to the ground and start over way of thinking of how multitasking works

01:34:29   on the iPad.

01:34:32   I find it better in almost every single way personally, but I can see how and why some

01:34:39   people are not enjoying it.

01:34:42   But I think that it is a system that people should open up and try and get used to and

01:34:49   try and rethink your workflows as frustrating as that can be.

01:34:52   Because if you really are able to embrace it, I think that it is a vastly superior system,

01:34:57   a system that I wish we could have had last year.

01:35:01   So the iOS 9 way of working would have only had half the time to embed its way into people's

01:35:08   lives.

01:35:10   you know, you get what you get. And just a couple of things. One I think is a bug that

01:35:16   I think I might be seeing because I'm not on 11 Everywhere yet, but I'm having some

01:35:21   significant issues with notes and URLs where they kind of move around the document when

01:35:26   I scroll.

01:35:27   I have that running betas on all of my systems. That seems to be buggy for me.

01:35:35   And I'm really hoping that this is a thing that won't exist once everything is fully

01:35:39   updated but I don't think that's going to be the case. I think there is something weird.

01:35:43   It seems to be saving like a link in two different places but one of them is invisible and I

01:35:51   have also had some data loss with notes a little bit but again they're betas so I'm

01:35:57   willing to accept that and I'm going to see how that shakes out after I upgrade everything

01:36:02   to be solid. And also, while drag and drop is great, it has made some interactions suck.

01:36:11   If all you really want to do is copy a URL, it takes a really long time to wait for iOS

01:36:18   to perform whatever it is to ensure that you're not dragging or dropping. I find that to be

01:36:25   frustrating because sometimes you can drag but you can't drop, right? Where you want

01:36:30   to take something you can't actually drop it there and I find myself just pressing and

01:36:36   holding for what is probably five to six seconds to wait for a pop-up to appear for me to copy

01:36:43   a URL. I find that frustrating. I wish that there was maybe a way around this. I wish

01:36:48   that Apple would maybe create some kind of area on the OS which I think is something

01:36:53   you mentioned in some places Federico where I would be able to just drop it and it just

01:36:59   to be copied to the clipboard.

01:37:01   - Yeah, I mean like a visual clipboard system.

01:37:04   - Yeah.

01:37:04   - And a visual clipboard is basically a shelf,

01:37:08   like an area where you don't have-

01:37:11   - You bring up the shelf.

01:37:12   Any opportunity to bring the shelf up, you'll bring it up.

01:37:15   - This is what you're talking about.

01:37:17   This is exactly what you're talking about.

01:37:18   You want something-

01:37:19   - No, because the shelf requires a drop point, right?

01:37:22   But my point is not everywhere.

01:37:25   - It doesn't have to be fixed on screen.

01:37:26   It doesn't have to be like,

01:37:28   don't think about my design, think about the idea of somewhere where you know it's there

01:37:34   and it's easy to do and you don't have to perform these long gestures, you just pick up something

01:37:39   and throw it out there and then it's either copied directly and it's also saved for later,

01:37:44   it's just there has to be a system where, like, don't think about the design details of it,

01:37:51   But there needs to be a system that allows you to copy stuff quickly and easily.

01:37:58   And right now, unless you do the long gesture, or unless you know exactly where you want to drop something,

01:38:06   that's not possible. So there has to be a solution. And call it a shelf, call it the new clipboard, call it something else.

01:38:14   But the basic idea, I think you're exactly right. That's one of the examples of why we need such a system.

01:38:21   Should we talk about some of the apps that are coming out?

01:38:25   Some of the stuff that we've tried in beta periods and stuff like that.

01:38:29   I mean, I think the biggest one for me, the one that I'm maybe the most excited about

01:38:35   from a working perspective is the Dropbox update with file support.

01:38:42   I am both surprised and thrilled about the fact that this is available day one.

01:38:49   the ability to be able to have all of my files in Dropbox in the files app.

01:38:55   I'm so excited about this and I know it's going to just make some huge changes to the

01:39:01   way that I get my work done.

01:39:03   To be able to access everything so simply from everywhere and it all be natively built

01:39:09   into the system with the ability to set like favorites of folders and have them all in

01:39:13   one view.

01:39:15   I barely played around with files but it's been so great for me to be able to have a

01:39:23   better view into iCloud Drive to save documents temporarily in a place.

01:39:27   Like if I'm just sending a contract to someone that doesn't need to be filed yet but it just

01:39:31   needs to be sent for their signature, being able to save that stuff to iCloud Drive is

01:39:35   just like a temporary storage place has been fantastic.

01:39:38   The ability to be able to save and access from Dropbox is going to change the way that

01:39:43   get my work done and I'm just over the moon that they have gone to the lengths

01:39:48   that they have gone to support at day one with the power and flexibility that

01:39:53   they have done. I'm really really really excited and I'm gonna thank EddyQ for

01:39:59   making that deal happen. I'm gonna thank Eddy. Thanks Eddy. I know it was

01:40:06   Eddy. We're gonna have to see how that works. I'm a bit skeptical of

01:40:13   on the file provider extensions.

01:40:16   - Oh, why are you telling me this now?

01:40:18   - It's actually in the review,

01:40:21   in the conclusion of that part.

01:40:23   - I read that one a long time ago, man.

01:40:25   I don't remember.

01:40:25   - We'll have to see how this cloud service stuff works

01:40:29   because the file provider extension type was designed

01:40:34   for cloud services.

01:40:35   So stuff that uploads, stuff that downloads.

01:40:39   But during the summer, I wasn't able to test any of these.

01:40:42   So a lot of developers have sort of hacked their way

01:40:45   around file providers by making local file providers.

01:40:48   So like local storage locations on iOS.

01:40:53   I haven't been able to test Dropbox or Google Drive

01:40:55   or Adobe Creative Cloud or something else.

01:40:59   So I don't know how well it works.

01:41:01   I do know that developers don't have a lot of freedom

01:41:04   when it comes to customizing the UI, for example.

01:41:07   They only have limited custom actions

01:41:10   that they can put into the files interface.

01:41:13   They cannot present, like the basic UI,

01:41:18   the file manager UI is the same of iCardDrive.

01:41:23   So don't expect Dropbox to be able to add badges to folders

01:41:27   or stuff like that.

01:41:28   I don't know how much they can,

01:41:33   and if they're willing to customize every single aspect

01:41:37   of the limited integrations that they have.

01:41:40   And also is this upload and upload stuff

01:41:43   gonna be reliable?

01:41:44   If you save something from Safari

01:41:48   with the files extension into Dropbox

01:41:52   as a location in files,

01:41:54   does the change propagate when you save from the extension

01:41:58   or do you have to open files first

01:42:00   and then the change uploads to your account?

01:42:04   How does it deal with reconciling changes

01:42:06   and conflicted copies.

01:42:08   How many, I assume we're gonna see

01:42:11   a lot of these companies explain,

01:42:13   if you want to use these more in-depth features,

01:42:16   you need to open the main Dropbox or Google Drive app.

01:42:20   If you want to just see your files and just share them,

01:42:23   you can go into Files, the app by Apple.

01:42:27   - Maybe if that's the case, Dropbox isn't saying it, right?

01:42:30   Like currently, they're not saying it.

01:42:32   There's no addendums in their post.

01:42:34   just like access everything throughout iOS. I'm having faith on it because, so as I stand

01:42:42   here right now, in the idea that because these companies, especially like including Dropbox,

01:42:50   were announced as of WWDC time, I like to believe that Apple worked with them to try

01:42:58   and make sure that this stuff could be best implemented to support and serve everybody's

01:43:04   needs. That is my hope in this.

01:43:07   I hope so too, yeah.

01:43:10   But it's also the first version of it and if this one kind of sucks I'm going to assume

01:43:13   it will get better later and even if I just have very basic support it's better than the

01:43:17   support I currently have. You know, like I've lived for a long time with just accessing,

01:43:23   with being able to access my and getting used to accessing my Dropbox files through the

01:43:26   Dropbox app. If that works as it always did, fine. And if I also get better access to things

01:43:34   throughout the system, even better.

01:43:37   Yeah, that is true.

01:43:40   I've tried a couple of AR apps so far and on the whole, none of them should necessarily

01:43:47   be AR applications. The one I've had the most experience with is Peacock because James Thompson

01:43:52   is a mad scientist.

01:43:56   scientist. Yeah, he's a mad scientist and he's created my favorite AR experience inside

01:44:03   of my calculator app. It's just a weird toy box.

01:44:07   I spent a long time trying to get the car to go through the hoop. That's all you need

01:44:10   to know, right? Like, it's a calculator app.

01:44:12   I've done it.

01:44:13   Yeah, I can't do it, but I just throw bananas that are on fire at it instead and it makes

01:44:17   me happy.

01:44:18   Well, something that might help you is you can attach a Bluetooth gaming pad to it. That

01:44:23   might help.

01:44:24   I bought one of those.

01:44:25   drive the car in the about screen via the Bluetooth gaming pads for the Apple TV

01:44:31   or whatever. I love James Thompson. He is wonderful and he's built just a

01:44:35   fantastic thing and the the about screen of Peacock is the most advanced about

01:44:40   screen probably ever created and it's just full of a bunch of stuff that

01:44:44   shouldn't be in a calculator app but it's awesome that it is. Carrot weather

01:44:48   has a really fun AR mode which is just a fun little demo too really where it

01:44:53   could show you a bunch of weather features in a fun little futuristic space age UI anywhere

01:45:00   within any way you point your phone. It's really nice, I like it. It's a very nice little

01:45:06   animation and it brings into it a lot of the fun that is in Carrot Weather in a new and

01:45:13   interesting way. So that's another one that I've tried. And I've also tried an app called

01:45:20   "Measure Kit", which I know Federico that you've had quite a bit of experience with.

01:45:23   Yeah, it's an AR app that allows you to measure stuff with a bunch of different tools.

01:45:30   So you have like a ruler, you have another tool to measure angles, you can measure a person's height.

01:45:37   And all of this is done using an AR kit. It recognizes flat surfaces like the ground floor

01:45:43   or tables and desks. It has limited support for vertical surfaces like walls, because ARKit by

01:45:52   default doesn't support walls, only horizontal planes. And it's really impressive the way that

01:45:59   it allows you to measure things. So some tools are more accurate than others. The ruler one,

01:46:06   in my experience, is really accurate down to the half centimeter in my experience.

01:46:13   the person's height tends to be off by a couple of,

01:46:18   I would say by two to five centimeters in my tests,

01:46:23   which doesn't make it, you know,

01:46:25   if your doctor asks for your height,

01:46:28   you shouldn't give them the height measure

01:46:30   by an ARKit application.

01:46:31   - I'm only ever going to in the future though.

01:46:33   I just want to, everyone, like if my doctor's listening,

01:46:36   this is the only way I'm ever measuring myself now

01:46:39   with my iPhone.

01:46:40   - Yeah, you really shouldn't do that.

01:46:42   - Nope.

01:46:42   It makes for a fun demo.

01:46:46   Every couple of days I would ask Silvia to come into the room where I was working and be like,

01:46:53   "Hey, stand still. I need to measure your height."

01:46:57   Perfect.

01:46:58   So the problem is she's already tiny and a measure kit would decrease her height by five steps.

01:47:07   She got really upset because she's like,

01:47:10   "I'm really tiny, I'm really, you know,

01:47:14   I'm not as tall as you and this is not fair

01:47:16   because your app is telling you even a smaller amount

01:47:20   of centimeters."

01:47:22   So that was both funny and sad.

01:47:25   But it's really impressive, I think,

01:47:26   for like for measuring furniture and stuff,

01:47:28   it really does come in handy.

01:47:32   I'm gonna use this Andy IKEA app.

01:47:34   I haven't been able to try,

01:47:36   But I assume between MeasureKit and IKEA,

01:47:39   shopping for furniture and new house items

01:47:43   will be a lot easier in the future.

01:47:45   - Todoist has been updated with SiriKit and drag and drop.

01:47:50   What does that mean for Todoist users?

01:47:52   - SiriKit, you can now ask Siri to create new tasks

01:47:58   and to give you an overview by using either like

01:48:03   with Todoist or in Todoist at the end of a command.

01:48:07   That is unfortunately one of the downsides of Apple system

01:48:10   that doesn't let you assign different defaults.

01:48:13   You cannot say like, instead of using Apple reminders,

01:48:16   I want to use Todoist for my reminders.

01:48:18   No, you cannot do that.

01:48:20   So you have to specify the name of the app at the end

01:48:22   or the beginning of your request.

01:48:25   With drag and drop, in my experience that works quite well.

01:48:29   The Todoist folks have done a good job

01:48:31   working around the quirks of Siri. So it depends on your language, I guess, it

01:48:36   depends on how you structure a sentence sometimes. Overall it's not terrible, it

01:48:41   works quite well. And drag and drop, now you can drop text, you can drop files, you

01:48:46   can drop links from Safari and either you create a new task in the inbox or in

01:48:51   a project or you drop these items into an existing task into the the detail

01:48:57   view, the comment view. You attach a file, you attach a comment, stuff like that.

01:49:00   It works quite well. It's not as rich, I would say. Todoist, both with SiriKit and drag and drop, it's not as rich as OmniFocus, which has a richer implementation of SiriKit commands.

01:49:14   For example, you can complete tasks with Siri and OmniFocus. You can search for tasks, I think.

01:49:21   and also drag and drop is a bit richer in OmniFocus, you can do more things, you can drop more types of items in different views.

01:49:30   It's not a bit better.

01:49:31   Airmail is one that I wanted to mention. Airmail has support for drag and drop, which was my email client, so you can drag messages out.

01:49:42   out. So far of the applications that I've been able to drop messages into, like so if

01:49:49   I, this is something that's just amazing, if I drag an email message out of airmail

01:49:55   and drop it into notes it creates a PDF and drops it into the document, which is incredible

01:50:01   because that has done something that I'm expecting a lot of this stuff will do over time, that's

01:50:07   reduced workflow that I need. I very frequently take travel documents and I will drag over

01:50:15   a workflow but now I don't need to do that. So if I book two flights and a hotel, I will have to

01:50:23   sit and do my workflow and every single one of those. But now I can just pick up three emails,

01:50:27   drag them into my new travel note and drop them all in and it will create PDFs of them all.

01:50:32   It's really awesome.

01:50:34   By G40 creates a PDF?

01:50:36   That's what it does in Notes. I don't know what happens if you drag it into my to-do app,

01:50:43   because I've not been able to try that yet. I can tell you in a moment, while you tell me about the

01:50:47   next app, I can try that. That is debatable and we'll revise that as we do iOS 11 follow-up,

01:50:54   because I want to get into more detail about how this drag-and-drop stuff works. You can read

01:50:58   in the review and you can listen to Myke's section of the review. There's some things we'll have to

01:51:05   to see how developers implement them. I want to mention Working Copy, which is the GitHub

01:51:11   client that we use at MacStories to organize our text files and collaborate on drafts.

01:51:16   And the developer Anders Borum, he shipped this iOS 11 integration with drag and drop on the iPad.

01:51:25   You can now, for example, you can like drop files into a repository in GitHub and you can

01:51:34   Like you can take a folder from Working Copy and you can drop it into Textastic, which is a text editor for iOS, also updated for iOS 11.

01:51:43   And when you drop the folder, it will basically create like a bookmark to the folder.

01:51:49   And so every change you make in Working Copy, after you drop a folder in Textastic, those changes will be reflected in there.

01:51:57   So that's really nice.

01:51:58   And I also want to mention Devontink, which is one of the apps that I've used over the summer to organize my research material.

01:52:04   They now have this integration with SiriKit that allows you to create a new note in Devontink. You can say,

01:52:10   "Create a note." I won't say the command because, you know, maybe it's a problem for people.

01:52:15   "Create a note in Devontink saying, you know, 'I need to listen to Myke's podcast.'"

01:52:20   And then you can add a note with the title, you can add text to a note.

01:52:25   I'm not sure whether Devontink supports this yet, but SiriKit in iOS 11 also lets you append text to the bottom of a note,

01:52:35   but I'm not sure Devontink supports it. And also you can now drag and drop stuff, so you can rearrange files in Devontink,

01:52:42   or you can drop in from Safari or Mail or Photos, and it's a great way to organize Devontink database using drag and drop on the iPad.

01:52:50   So dragging a message from airmail into Todoist creates a message link.

01:52:57   Yeah, I thought so. It's the way that... Myke, you read this. It's the way that they deal with the different flavors of items dragged.

01:53:08   For me personally, that is the two things I would want to happen. If I'm dragging a message into Notes, I want it to create a PDF.

01:53:16   if I'm dragging a message into Todoist.

01:53:18   - That's debatable.

01:53:19   - No, I'm not saying, no, it's not debatable

01:53:21   because it's the way I want it to work.

01:53:22   It might not be the way you want it to work,

01:53:24   but I specifically said it's the way I want it to work.

01:53:26   That's what I want.

01:53:28   - I just wanna open a discussion of how do the,

01:53:31   how like the air metal folks decided

01:53:34   when the user drags a message and drops it into notes,

01:53:37   it should be a PDF, but should it be a PDF?

01:53:40   What if I want it to be a link like it is in Todoist?

01:53:42   - Did they make that decision though?

01:53:44   Isn't it like, - Yes.

01:53:45   Wouldn't Notes be asking for the PDF over the URL?

01:53:48   - Well, it's the two of them.

01:53:51   The RML developers put the PDF format first

01:53:55   in the list of provided types.

01:53:57   And Notes goes to look for all the formats

01:54:00   and if the PDF is first and Notes assumes,

01:54:03   well, I gotta take this PDF, it takes the PDF.

01:54:05   So it's a two-way street.

01:54:07   And as I wonder in the review,

01:54:09   I want to see how developers come up

01:54:12   with a mutually agreed upon standard

01:54:15   of like, if I want to have the subject of the email

01:54:19   as a hyperlink, I know that that is possible.

01:54:23   So should there be a preference in the app that I'm using

01:54:27   to say, hey, do you want to save email messages

01:54:30   as links or PDFs?

01:54:32   And how complex does that get when you have to specify

01:54:34   a format for every single type?

01:54:36   So I just wonder how this can be done effectively.

01:54:39   And I just wonder if it maybe creates some confusion.

01:54:42   I don't know, it's too early.

01:54:43   We need to see how this scales with like a dozen of apps instead of five of them.

01:54:46   This is the right way to do it for now, to not have these issues.

01:54:49   For now, yes.

01:54:50   But yeah, you're right. We just need to see how it scales.

01:54:53   So we're just hitting the tip of the iceberg.

01:54:58   Over the next few weeks, you're going to hear us talk tons more about more and more iOS apps as they come out.

01:55:04   But I think that for today, we should wrap it up. Federico, where can people go to get the Mac Stories review?

01:55:11   They can go to maxstories.net. It's pinned. It's right there on the home page. It's featured at the top. It's going to be pinned to the front page for a few days.

01:55:24   Of course in our show notes as well. Relay.fm/connected/160

01:55:30   They can also go to my Twitter profile and they will see the tweet pinned at the top

01:55:37   of my profile if they open it on the web or on the official Twitter app.

01:55:41   So it's going to be to the top of all of our most important pages for a few days.

01:55:47   All right, thanks again to our sponsors this week, the fine folk over at Squarespace, Freshbooks

01:55:52   and Bombfowl.

01:55:53   If you want to find Steven's work online, he's at photo_pixels.net and he is @ismh.

01:55:58   Veta Eko is on Twitter, he's @Vetichi, V-I-T-I-C-C-I.

01:56:02   I am @imike, I-M-Y-A-K-E.

01:56:04   Thank you so much for listening

01:56:05   to this week's special episode of Connected.

01:56:07   We'll be back next time.

01:56:08   Until then, say goodbye, guys.

01:56:11   - Arrivederci.