Connected

00:00:00 ◼   ► [Music]

00:00:08 ◼   ► Hello and welcome to Connected, episode 157.

00:00:12 ◼   ► It is brought to you this week by Eero, Ting, and Crimson Mesa.

00:00:16 ◼   ► My name is Stephen Hackett and I'm joined, as always, by my co-host, Federico Vittucci.

00:00:22 ◼   ► Hi Stephen.

00:00:24 ◼   ► Hey buddy.

00:00:25 ◼   ► How are you?

00:00:26 ◼   ► I'm good.

00:00:27 ◼   ► Uh, it's, it's just the two of us, just the two of us this week.

00:00:31 ◼   ► I know there's a, there's a sense of, uh, being grownups when Myke is not around.

00:00:38 ◼   ► I feel like, uh, I feel like I'm having an adult conversation instead of, you

00:00:42 ◼   ► know, just basically, I don't know what, what is that we do with Myke, but Myke is

00:00:46 ◼   ► not with us. We don't know where, we don't know where he will be coming back if he

00:00:51 ◼   ► will be coming back but that Steven doesn't doesn't have to stop you from

00:00:58 ◼   ► doing the follow-up no the follow-up train cannot come off the tracks no it

00:01:02 ◼   ► must it's barreling down on us and it's really good getting dark so you guys

00:01:09 ◼   ► spoke last week about the iPad that you bent I found that whole conversation

00:01:13 ◼   ► hysterical because I want to follow up on the investigation have you

00:01:21 ◼   ► investigated what happened. So I tried to investigate what happened and I couldn't

00:01:26 ◼   ► come up with any reasonable idea for exactly how the iPad bent but I saw

00:01:32 ◼   ► someone on Twitter today with actually a pretty good idea that maybe this person

00:01:37 ◼   ► asked me did you leave the iPad in the Sun and is it possible that the iPad got

00:01:42 ◼   ► hot and the aluminum bent because of a of a just a light pressure not even a

00:01:49 ◼   ► strong force. Now it is possible that I left the iPad in the sun but you know I

00:01:57 ◼   ► don't think the aluminum would bend if I don't see at least the error message

00:02:04 ◼   ► with the you know on iOS that tells you that the your device is overheating I'm

00:02:09 ◼   ► not sure that that temperature you know if I don't see the message can the

00:02:13 ◼   ► aluminum really bent. So I'm doing some googling about the softening and melting points

00:02:21 ◼   ► of aluminum. The softening point seems to be like as low as 100 degrees Celsius.

00:02:27 ◼   ► I'm definitely not at a beach with 100 degrees Celsius.

00:02:31 ◼   ► No, you'd be dead or you'd want to be dead. So I don't think it's that. But iPads

00:02:37 ◼   ► not made out of butter. They don't slowly become softer as they warm up. But yeah, so

00:02:44 ◼   ► I don't have any real thoughts. I'm sure it was in a bag and just got squished. It

00:02:48 ◼   ► happens. But you went to the Genius Bar and I know they all know you there. I know that

00:02:51 ◼   ► they roll out the red carpet and they hand you an espresso.

00:02:54 ◼   ► They really don't. I wish they did, but they really, unfortunately they don't. So

00:02:59 ◼   ► yeah, I went to the Genius Bar and I take out my iPad. Actually, first I go to the guy

00:03:05 ◼   ► guy and I say, I have a problem with my iPad Pro. I made a reservation. It's like, yeah,

00:03:09 ◼   ► sure. What is the problem? So basically I just pulled the iPad from my bag and I showed

00:03:16 ◼   ► to the guy, I was like, this is the problem. And he was like, huh, how did that happen?

00:03:22 ◼   ► It was like, well, I have no idea actually. So Apple covered that under, thankfully I

00:03:31 ◼   ► AppleCare+ for my iPad. Yes. So instead of, and this is, I should say this is the

00:03:37 ◼   ► first time in eight, nine years that I'm buying Apple mobile devices that I ever

00:03:43 ◼   ► did AppleCare. I decided to do AppleCare+ because it felt like for a

00:03:48 ◼   ► thousand plus euro device it felt like a good choice. So I don't think I've ever

00:03:55 ◼   ► done it on an iPad. Yeah. But I do on the phone, I do the AppleCare+ on the phone

00:03:59 ◼   ► phone. Because as we've talked about at length, I carry my phone without a case. And sometimes

00:04:04 ◼   ► it comes in handy to have AppleCare+. Yeah, and so instead of paying, the guy did the

00:04:10 ◼   ► calculation, instead of paying 550 euros, I only had to pay 49, which was pretty nice.

00:04:18 ◼   ► Which is less. Which is less. If the math is hard, it is

00:04:21 ◼   ► less money. And last week I was telling Myke about these

00:04:26 ◼   ► AppleCare costs. And then I was left waiting for a… the guy told me you've got to wait

00:04:35 ◼   ► for five to six days. I was like, "Okay, sure I can use my bent iPad. I can go to the

00:04:40 ◼   ► beach with a bent iPad. It's fine." But then the following day I get an email from

00:04:45 ◼   ► Apple, "Your iPad is ready for pickup at the Apple Store." So I was really…

00:04:49 ◼   ► I bet it was. I saw that email address. So we better take care of this guy.

00:04:53 ◼   ► I don't know. I don't think that's the case. Probably just luck. You know, who's buying

00:04:58 ◼   ► iPad Pro, iPad Pros in August in Rome? Come on. Everybody's at the beach.

00:05:03 ◼   ► Just you.

00:05:04 ◼   ► Just me buying an iPad, getting an iPad Pro. So yeah, the following day I go to the Apple

00:05:08 ◼   ► store. Sure enough there's a cardboard box with an iPad Pro inside. And we make the exchange

00:05:17 ◼   ► and the first thing I notice is that I'm trying to turn on the new iPad Pro and it's stuck

00:05:21 ◼   ► at the Apple logo. I was like, oh man, this is a bad sign. So I had to do a force reset,

00:05:29 ◼   ► like a forced reboot, and then it worked well. I wonder why he was stuck on the Apple logo,

00:05:35 ◼   ► maybe some installation gone wrong. And actually I wanted to ask you, do you know if these

00:05:40 ◼   ► iPads that Apple gives you, these replacement units, are they actually new devices or are

00:05:45 ◼   ► they like refurbished devices?

00:05:48 ◼   ► That's a good question. I mean, my experience at Apple Retail so long ago is basically irrelevant.

00:05:55 ◼   ► But my understanding is that they are "like new," so they have new batteries and new enclosures,

00:06:02 ◼   ► but the logic board or the screen may have come out of something they refurbished. So

00:06:09 ◼   ► I don't think it's new, but I think it is "like new," where effectively there's no difference.

00:06:15 ◼   ► Okay. But again, that could be, if you're out there and you're listening and you're

00:06:19 ◼   ► yelling at me for getting that wrong, send us an email. We'll correct it next week.

00:06:23 ◼   ► Send an email to Stephen, yes. So the new one comes with some variant of iOS 10, I'm

00:06:28 ◼   ► sure. Did you put 11 on it right out of the box?

00:06:30 ◼   ► Right out of the box I went back home because thankfully I was still in Rome. I was in Rome

00:06:35 ◼   ► for a couple of days last week. So I went home and I downloaded iOS 11. And yeah, it's

00:06:43 ◼   ► fine I had to do a restore from backup which I usually do not perform because it tends

00:06:49 ◼   ► to be so slow but you know I have a fiber connection not as good as mics connection

00:06:53 ◼   ► but it's still manageable so I did a restore I had to put in a bunch of passwords again

00:06:58 ◼   ► but overall I was you know back up and running in I would say three to four hours the iPad

00:07:03 ◼   ► was normal again yeah yeah good I'm glad it worked out so quickly you know that delay

00:07:09 ◼   ► is kind of annoying but they just can't keep everything in stock right so they have to

00:07:12 ◼   ► order you in a service part but um well good I'm glad you're sorted I'm glad that this

00:07:18 ◼   ► one is not bent and you know don't dump in this one. Yeah I'm being super super careful

00:07:26 ◼   ► with what I do with this iPad. Now it's in your head right? I'm constantly looking at

00:07:32 ◼   ► the profile of the device and like is it slightly bent now? Am I bending the iPad? I did that

00:07:38 ◼   ► with my 6 Plus, because people remember that some of those phones, I won't say they're

00:07:43 ◼   ► prone to bending, but you could bend them. And yeah, sometimes I get in my head, like

00:07:48 ◼   ► I pick it up and like, oh no, I've bent it. And then I put it on like a glass top table

00:07:52 ◼   ► and like see if it wiggled any, you know, I'm sure anyone watching me thought I would

00:07:55 ◼   ► have just lost my mind. But once it's like in your head, right, that it's like, oh, this

00:07:59 ◼   ► feels bent, then you have to like prove to yourself that it's not. It's really upsetting.

00:08:03 ◼   ► Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, now it's in my head and I'm looking at it all the time, but it seems

00:08:08 ◼   ► to be fine. So I was really happy.

00:08:11 ◼   ► It's impressive really. You don't know your own strength Federico. That's what it is.

00:08:17 ◼   ► I don't know man. I don't know.

00:08:20 ◼   ► So we had a bunch of people send us an email about this TechCrunch article.

00:08:25 ◼   ► If this is our legacy I'm happy with it.

00:08:30 ◼   ► You know it's not what I, you know, you don't always get decided what your legacy is going

00:08:34 ◼   ► to be, right? Sometimes your legacy chooses you and ours is wall to wall comprehensive

00:08:41 ◼   ► blah blah car coverage. So what is this story? Do you want to break this down?

00:08:45 ◼   ► So you know how in Google Maps, in the iPhone app, you can integrate with a bunch of what

00:08:52 ◼   ► do they call it? Ride sharing services, stuff like Uber and MyTaxi, you know, that stuff.

00:08:58 ◼   ► Yeah, Lyft.

00:08:59 ◼   ► Yeah, when you search for an address, you get the usual walking and car transit options,

00:09:06 ◼   ► but then you also get these integrations with these services. And if you don't want to use

00:09:09 ◼   ► your own transportation methods, you can hook up your account and get a fair estimation

00:09:14 ◼   ► in the app, and then you can request an Uber or Lyft directly from Google Maps. Well, now

00:09:20 ◼   ► it seems that there's a blah, blah, blah car integration in Google Maps. So if you want

00:09:25 ◼   ► to ride long distance and of course you don't want to spend like a thousand euros with Uber.

00:09:32 ◼   ► You can see if there's anybody who's traveling there with BlaBlaCar which is the awesome

00:09:38 ◼   ► service. Also possibly sketchy, I don't want anybody to get killed by a stranger in a car

00:09:44 ◼   ► but you know it seems to be quite popular in Europe and especially in France and Italy.

00:09:48 ◼   ► So if you want to ride with someone who's going to the same place where you're supposed

00:09:52 ◼   ► to be going, now you can see the estimated cost and the timeline, the schedule of someone

00:10:02 ◼   ► else sharing a ride with BlaBlaCard directly in Google Maps.

00:10:06 ◼   ► Which, I mean, if you trust and use BlaBlaCard, I should say, a couple of my friends swear

00:10:11 ◼   ► by this service, they are super in love with it.

00:10:14 ◼   ► So if you're into the idea of doing a BlaBlaCard ride, and if you can survive it, maybe you

00:10:22 ◼   ► should test the Google Maps integration because it seems pretty cool.

00:10:26 ◼   ► It is nice. I have used the Lyft integration, or at least played with it, you know, you

00:10:31 ◼   ► kind of poke at it in iOS maps and like, I'm looking at this place, someone in a car taking

00:10:36 ◼   ► me here. It's nice you don't have to go out to another app. It's one of those integrations

00:10:40 ◼   ► that makes a lot of sense. So yeah, making moves, man.

00:10:44 ◼   ► These integrations in mapping applications like in Apple Maps and Google Maps are actually

00:10:49 ◼   ► quite nice. Maps on iOS, the Apple one, has also extensions for developers. So a couple

00:10:57 ◼   ► of times in the past I use, I don't know if you're familiar with the service that

00:11:01 ◼   ► is called TripAdvisor. It's like a...

00:11:03 ◼   ► Yeah, sure.

00:11:04 ◼   ► Yeah. So in Italy, I guess in Europe it's super popular because we don't really have

00:11:09 ◼   ► Yelp. So we use TripAdvisor all the time. And one sort of sister company to TripAdvisor

00:11:16 ◼   ► It's called the Fork and it lets you book,

00:11:18 ◼   ► it's like open table but for Italians basically

00:11:21 ◼   ► and Europeans I think.

00:11:22 ◼   ► And the Fork has an Apple Maps integration.

00:11:26 ◼   ► So when I'm looking up, usually restaurants

00:11:29 ◼   ► in popular cities like in Rome

00:11:31 ◼   ► or in very touristy type places

00:11:34 ◼   ► and they have the Fork integrations.

00:11:37 ◼   ► So I can go into Apple Maps

00:11:39 ◼   ► and make a reservation from there

00:11:41 ◼   ► and it takes care, you know,

00:11:42 ◼   ► you get this custom UI inside of Maps

00:11:45 ◼   ► And it's very similar to the integration system

00:11:47 ◼   ► that Google Maps has, but Apple has an actually

00:11:50 ◼   ► like a developer API, so anybody in theory

00:11:53 ◼   ► can work with Apple to make these extensions,

00:11:55 ◼   ► which is kind of neat.

00:11:56 ◼   ► - So many times like you have an address or something,

00:11:59 ◼   ► you gotta put it on your clipboard

00:12:01 ◼   ► and then paste it into one of these other apps

00:12:02 ◼   ► or try to remember it or like,

00:12:04 ◼   ► it's just way cleaner to have it all in one.

00:12:06 ◼   ► So I'm a big fan as well.

00:12:07 ◼   ► All right, Jamie wrote in about subscription fatigue.

00:12:11 ◼   ► So I'm gonna read a little bit of Jamie's email

00:12:14 ◼   ► and I really want to know what you think about this.

00:12:17 ◼   ► So this is riffing off something that Myke said,

00:12:19 ◼   ► I think a couple weeks ago,

00:12:21 ◼   ► that if you only use an application once or twice a year,

00:12:23 ◼   ► you may not necessarily want to pay for it

00:12:25 ◼   ► for a whole year of use via subscription.

00:12:27 ◼   ► So if I have this app, I use it once in the winter

00:12:31 ◼   ► and once in the summer, I don't want to pay for it

00:12:33 ◼   ► the other 10 months out of the year, for instance.

00:12:36 ◼   ► So Jamie suggests a approach for these companies

00:12:39 ◼   ► that would be like a smart subscription system,

00:12:41 ◼   ► is what they call it,

00:12:43 ◼   ► so that you would still pay a monthly fee,

00:12:44 ◼   ► but you only get charged if you use the app

00:12:48 ◼   ► during that period.

00:12:49 ◼   ► So if I use this app in January,

00:12:51 ◼   ► I pay January's subscription amount,

00:12:54 ◼   ► but if I do not use it in February, March, or April,

00:12:56 ◼   ► I don't get billed for those months.

00:12:58 ◼   ► I open it again in May and use it, I get billed for May.

00:13:01 ◼   ► And I think Jamie's thought is that you could gain

00:13:06 ◼   ► casual users, part of the deal with subscriptions,

00:13:08 ◼   ► we've talked about it.

00:13:10 ◼   ► If you have an app that goes subscription

00:13:12 ◼   ► and you kind of only use it every once in a while,

00:13:13 ◼   ► you may drop it and this would help keep those people along

00:13:18 ◼   ► without getting involved for the full yearly fee.

00:13:22 ◼   ► I was curious what you think about this.

00:13:25 ◼   ► - I mean, I think these argument make sense,

00:13:28 ◼   ► you know, if you don't wanna,

00:13:30 ◼   ► we talked about this, I think, in terms of

00:13:33 ◼   ► the subscriptions are gonna target different types

00:13:36 ◼   ► of customers and different types of audiences.

00:13:40 ◼   ► But I think the problem is how do you calculate,

00:13:42 ◼   ► how do you create a subscription service

00:13:45 ◼   ► that can make these kind of calculations for everybody?

00:13:49 ◼   ► So if you apply that to millions of people on the App Store,

00:13:52 ◼   ► how do you create a system that can basically build

00:13:57 ◼   ► a subscription dynamically and differently for everybody

00:14:03 ◼   ► based on their usage?

00:14:05 ◼   ► Because that idea seems super smart, you know,

00:14:07 ◼   ► like I'm paying a quote unquote subscription but only for the months that I'm actually

00:14:13 ◼   ► using the app but how can you, you know it seems to add like a whole bunch of other complications

00:14:20 ◼   ► to the system.

00:14:21 ◼   ► Right, like what does using it mean?

00:14:22 ◼   ► Exactly, exactly.

00:14:23 ◼   ► Like if I tap it once when I'm like moving folders around because in iOS 11 that's super

00:14:26 ◼   ► confusing, oh no I opened it and I'm going to get charged $3.99.

00:14:30 ◼   ► I agree with you that it's fuzzy right?

00:14:32 ◼   ► You need some sort of clear definition.

00:14:34 ◼   ► - Yeah, and so I don't know because on one hand

00:14:37 ◼   ► you got a pretty simple model.

00:14:38 ◼   ► Every month or every year you pay X and that's it.

00:14:41 ◼   ► Instead we would say, oh well it depends

00:14:44 ◼   ► on how much you use the app.

00:14:45 ◼   ► So what does use constitute exactly?

00:14:48 ◼   ► And then you gotta make an API for this

00:14:50 ◼   ► because you gotta tell developers,

00:14:51 ◼   ► well either the system decides what using means,

00:14:56 ◼   ► so if I wanna export my data from the app

00:14:59 ◼   ► because I'm done with it,

00:15:00 ◼   ► because I don't wanna use it anymore,

00:15:02 ◼   ► I want to take all my documents out of the app.

00:15:04 ◼   ► Does that mean I'm using the app?

00:15:06 ◼   ► So does the app need to have like a grace period model

00:15:10 ◼   ► built in?

00:15:11 ◼   ► It seems like it makes sense in practice.

00:15:15 ◼   ► It makes sense in theory, but in practice, I

00:15:17 ◼   ► would just say, just go look for something else.

00:15:20 ◼   ► Because the subscription is clearly

00:15:24 ◼   ► meant for a different type of user.

00:15:26 ◼   ► And I think the greatest thing that subscriptions

00:15:30 ◼   ► are doing right now is they're sort of splitting up the apps

00:15:33 ◼   ► into two type of professional applications.

00:15:39 ◼   ► The ones that follow the old model of pay once and pay

00:15:42 ◼   ► for upgrades or buy the new version,

00:15:44 ◼   ► and the new sort of trend of doing subscriptions.

00:15:49 ◼   ► And we can choose, right?

00:15:50 ◼   ► It's not like everybody is switching to subscriptions.

00:15:53 ◼   ► If you-- even using Ulysses as a recent example,

00:15:57 ◼   ► The folks at IE Writer or ScrewRunner, for example,

00:16:01 ◼   ► which are pretty similar apps,

00:16:03 ◼   ► they are not switching to subscriptions.

00:16:05 ◼   ► So the great thing right now is that we have choice.

00:16:08 ◼   ► And so because we have choice, instead of saying,

00:16:10 ◼   ► we should create the system that accounts for

00:16:14 ◼   ► how much a user actually uses the app

00:16:18 ◼   ► and then calculates the subscription accordingly,

00:16:21 ◼   ► instead I think it's just better maybe

00:16:23 ◼   ► to pick a different tool and use it.

00:16:27 ◼   ► - Yeah, so far, the couple apps that I have had moved

00:16:32 ◼   ► to a subscription are apps that I really used.

00:16:34 ◼   ► And so they, so far I've not been in the situation

00:16:37 ◼   ► where an app that I only use a couple of times a year

00:16:40 ◼   ► has done this, but I'm sure it's coming at some point.

00:16:43 ◼   ► But you know, like when day one went to their premium model,

00:16:46 ◼   ► I used day one multiple times a week.

00:16:49 ◼   ► And I was happy to pay for it, and I did so like on day one.

00:16:52 ◼   ► For me, I don't use Ulysses, and so, you know,

00:16:56 ◼   ► that one kind of just went by me

00:16:58 ◼   ► 'cause I didn't use it before.

00:17:00 ◼   ► I do like that if I want to use it,

00:17:01 ◼   ► now there's more options with their trial stuff

00:17:04 ◼   ► they've built in.

00:17:05 ◼   ► But if I have the need for it,

00:17:07 ◼   ► then I'll visit in the future.

00:17:08 ◼   ► But I think there are a lot of people

00:17:09 ◼   ► who are coming up against apps that fit

00:17:13 ◼   ► into what Jamie's talking about.

00:17:14 ◼   ► I think it's an interesting approach,

00:17:15 ◼   ► but I think I agree with you

00:17:16 ◼   ► that it's not quite the right answer.

00:17:18 ◼   ► But it's interesting to think about.

00:17:22 ◼   ► Because there are sort of all these,

00:17:24 ◼   ► anytime there's a change in the app store,

00:17:26 ◼   ► there's always pros and cons, right?

00:17:27 ◼   ► It's such a complex system with so many apps

00:17:31 ◼   ► and so many users that there is no one size fits all

00:17:34 ◼   ► in anything, and anytime something changes or is updated

00:17:37 ◼   ► or works differently, you always have to approach it

00:17:41 ◼   ► in a new light, both as a developer, but as a user as well.

00:17:45 ◼   ► - I have to wonder if this problem with subscriptions

00:17:50 ◼   ► is mostly a result of the fact that some of the established

00:17:55 ◼   ► developers in the industry right now are folks that used to be around before. Like they're

00:18:02 ◼   ► relatively old companies. They

00:18:04 ◼   ► have a vested interest in keeping the old model around.

00:18:09 ◼   ► So I wonder if the new generations of developers like the kid that is now

00:18:13 ◼   ► 16 or 17 and wants to, it's her dream to start a company in three years. Is she gonna do

00:18:22 ◼   ► You know a paid upfront app or are the new generations more inclined to consider these new models whether they are

00:18:30 ◼   ► subscriptions or in-app purchases or you know new stuff because the popular apps that we use, you know, the OmniFocus and Ulysses and

00:18:37 ◼   ► Scrivener these are all folks that have been around for a long time and

00:18:42 ◼   ► Maybe some of them and this is not an accusation, but it's just a natural evolution of things

00:18:47 ◼   ► They don't have the mindset to try new stuff because they are structured in a specific

00:18:53 ◼   ► way as a company or because they just don't understand that change is scary for everybody.

00:19:00 ◼   ► But some people are more inclined to change and to experiment. And usually those people

00:19:04 ◼   ► are young people. So I wonder if the apps are five years from now, 10 years from now,

00:19:11 ◼   ► where someone who's a kid in college today will create a development studio in the future,

00:19:19 ◼   ► will they stick with the old model or will they change to the new ones? That is fascinating

00:19:24 ◼   ► for me to think about.

00:19:25 ◼   ► Yeah, I think kind of along those same lines, I wonder if this would have been different

00:19:32 ◼   ► had subscriptions been introduced five years ago.

00:19:34 ◼   ► Exactly. Yeah.

00:19:35 ◼   ► Paid up front was still very much the business model and we are also used now

00:19:40 ◼   ► to free with in-app purchase or free with ads that introducing this new paid

00:19:48 ◼   ► mechanism feels a little late and obviously there's no way to know but I

00:19:54 ◼   ► think about that a lot of like what would have this been like had been

00:19:57 ◼   ► available earlier in the store and it may have been a more natural stepping

00:20:02 ◼   ► stone over to this if we were all still used to paying for apps up front and

00:20:06 ◼   ► said that oh hey it's great now you can pay less just on a monthly basis or a

00:20:10 ◼   ► yearly basis or whatever and you know it's not a big deal but because we were

00:20:15 ◼   ► so used to free apps now that there's some backlash of of users who don't who

00:20:21 ◼   ► have been used to not paying for apps and now you know they're they're faced

00:20:25 ◼   ► with paying something on a regular basis I don't know it's just interesting you

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00:22:42 ◼   ► their support of this show and Relay FM. So we were falsely accused, Federico,

00:22:49 ◼   ► - Mm, by who? - As a show.

00:22:51 ◼   ► Somebody on Twitter, I don't remember.

00:22:55 ◼   ► Blaming us for killing Crash Plan.

00:22:58 ◼   ► - Didn't we?

00:22:59 ◼   ► - And I was like, no, we haven't talked about Crash Plan.

00:23:01 ◼   ► I even looked through the notes.

00:23:03 ◼   ► I was like, did we mention it recently?

00:23:04 ◼   ► And then the prompt curse killed it, no.

00:23:07 ◼   ► This is not our fault. - Okay.

00:23:09 ◼   ► - But the news is Crash Plan, which is a backup service

00:23:12 ◼   ► for your Mac or PC, they have exited, exited,

00:23:18 ◼   ► the consumer space.

00:23:20 ◼   ► So it used to be you go to this crash plan,

00:23:23 ◼   ► you pay whatever it was, five bucks a month,

00:23:25 ◼   ► and you can back up your Mac.

00:23:26 ◼   ► And they are moving out of that business

00:23:29 ◼   ► and just doing small business, basically.

00:23:33 ◼   ► Now we should say Backblaze has been a sponsor

00:23:35 ◼   ► of Connected and a bunch of Relay FM shows,

00:23:38 ◼   ► but I used Backblaze before then.

00:23:40 ◼   ► I've used Backblaze for a long time.

00:23:42 ◼   ► But just to get that off the table, they are a sponsor.

00:23:45 ◼   ► So I don't necessarily talk about the crash plan thing

00:23:48 ◼   ► all that much.

00:23:48 ◼   ► It's clearly that it's not working for them.

00:23:52 ◼   ► You can migrate from a personal account

00:23:53 ◼   ► to a small business account.

00:23:55 ◼   ► There's some incentives if you do that.

00:23:57 ◼   ► They reckon people use Carbonite.

00:23:59 ◼   ► I think all of us would say Backblaze is a better choice.

00:24:02 ◼   ► But it got me thinking again about Time Machine and iCloud.

00:24:08 ◼   ► So Time Machine backup is great, but the problem

00:24:10 ◼   ► is that your hard drive-- like for instance, on my iMac

00:24:13 ◼   ► here on my desk, my time machine drive is under the desk.

00:24:16 ◼   ► And so if my studio burns to the ground,

00:24:19 ◼   ► A, a lot of old Macs would be killed,

00:24:20 ◼   ► but two, my data, just on my iMac and the time machine drive

00:24:24 ◼   ► would go away.

00:24:25 ◼   ► And what Backblaze does, or Crash Plan,

00:24:26 ◼   ► or these other services, is they get your data offsite.

00:24:31 ◼   ► And I can talk about backups all day.

00:24:34 ◼   ► It's a very exciting topic, mostly in Federico.

00:24:36 ◼   ► - I had no idea, really, can you?

00:24:39 ◼   ► - Yeah, I know, right?

00:24:40 ◼   ► Yeah, huh, weird.

00:24:42 ◼   ► But it got me thinking, what would it take for iCloud to offer Time Machine backup to

00:24:49 ◼   ► the cloud?

00:24:50 ◼   ► So I looked up some pricing, because the iCloud pricing seems to change every nine months

00:24:54 ◼   ► or so.

00:24:55 ◼   ► Right now, if you're in the US, you can buy two terabytes of iCloud data for basically

00:25:02 ◼   ► ten bucks a month.

00:25:04 ◼   ► And all around the world, two terabytes is the max.

00:25:07 ◼   ► So that is more a month than something like Backblaze, which is five dollars a month for

00:25:11 ◼   ► for unlimited backup, but it's a reasonable amount

00:25:16 ◼   ► for that data, and for most people,

00:25:20 ◼   ► you know, if I had this two terabyte plan,

00:25:22 ◼   ► if I could go into the iCloud settings,

00:25:25 ◼   ► hey, I'm gonna use a terabyte for time machine backup,

00:25:30 ◼   ► just carve out a terabyte for time machine backup,

00:25:33 ◼   ► and let the other terabyte be used for iCloud photo library

00:25:36 ◼   ► and whatever else I have in iCloud.

00:25:38 ◼   ► And that seems not unreasonable to me at this point,

00:25:41 ◼   ► that they could do something like this.

00:25:45 ◼   ► I think it'd be nice.

00:25:46 ◼   ► - Yeah, and especially when you compare iOS devices and Macs,

00:25:51 ◼   ► even if I don't personally use iCalc backup and restore

00:25:56 ◼   ► every time, it's just so easy when you need it.

00:25:59 ◼   ► And it surprises me that the Mac

00:26:01 ◼   ► doesn't have a feature like this.

00:26:03 ◼   ► And quite possibly, I mean, the fact that Macs can,

00:26:07 ◼   ► They tend to ship with more built-in storage than iOS devices.

00:26:11 ◼   ► Probably that was a problem in the past.

00:26:14 ◼   ► But Apple seems to be open to the idea of extending the storage of iCloud Drive.

00:26:18 ◼   ► And especially now that they're also going to do family sharing in iOS 11,

00:26:24 ◼   ► you can share your space with other members in your family.

00:26:26 ◼   ► I'm surprised that the Mac still doesn't have any deeper iCloud integration when

00:26:31 ◼   ► it comes to setup and backup.

00:26:33 ◼   ► It is surprising.

00:26:35 ◼   ► So I've been setting up my High Sierra Drive over and over.

00:26:39 ◼   ► Like you, I'm in the depths of a review.

00:26:41 ◼   ► And if you sign into iCloud on a blank Mac,

00:26:44 ◼   ► it pulls down a bunch of settings.

00:26:46 ◼   ► You have all your contacts and calendars like you normally do.

00:26:48 ◼   ► But it pulls down account settings.

00:26:50 ◼   ► So it knew about all three of my email addresses.

00:26:52 ◼   ► And it knows about these other logins and stuff.

00:26:57 ◼   ► But it's not nearly as comprehensive

00:27:00 ◼   ► as a time machine restore would be, of course,

00:27:03 ◼   ► or an iCloud restore on iOS.

00:27:05 ◼   ► And we're at the point where I think most nerds know

00:27:09 ◼   ► about Time Machine.

00:27:10 ◼   ► It's been around since 10.5.

00:27:11 ◼   ► It's been a really long time.

00:27:12 ◼   ► But it still requires you go buy an external hard drive

00:27:16 ◼   ► and plug it in, right?

00:27:18 ◼   ► Or-- and most people have notebooks,

00:27:20 ◼   ► so you've got to remember, like, oh, it's on my desk

00:27:21 ◼   ► when I charge my laptop.

00:27:22 ◼   ► I need to plug in the drive.

00:27:23 ◼   ► I know I need to buy a dongle.

00:27:24 ◼   ► And I think a lot of people can go longer

00:27:29 ◼   ► than they think they do between backups.

00:27:30 ◼   ► and then you're at risk for data loss.

00:27:33 ◼   ► And something like CrashPlan or Backblaze takes care of that.

00:27:38 ◼   ► A lot of things would have to go wrong for me to go get my data off Backblaze.

00:27:41 ◼   ► It's not my first backup, but it is my safety net.

00:27:44 ◼   ► If my office disappears, then I can go get my data from Backblaze.

00:27:51 ◼   ► And I think people would be more willing to do something like this

00:27:56 ◼   ► if it's built in with iCloud system settings, because it's just built in.

00:28:00 ◼   ► They trust it, they don't have to go find something else.

00:28:02 ◼   ► They already know and trust Apple and the iCloud brand.

00:28:06 ◼   ► And it just seems like an opportunity for Apple

00:28:08 ◼   ► to maybe make a move here at some point.

00:28:12 ◼   ► And Dan Morin, I wrote this thing over at Macworld.

00:28:14 ◼   ► This is one of those deals where I was preparing

00:28:16 ◼   ► for the show and then somebody we know wrote basically

00:28:19 ◼   ► exactly what I was gonna say.

00:28:20 ◼   ► So go read Dan's article.

00:28:23 ◼   ► It's very much in line with this.

00:28:25 ◼   ► But I think it would be nice to have another option

00:28:28 ◼   ► for Mac users.

00:28:29 ◼   ► said that iCloud backup is so good on iOS and time machine is really good but again

00:28:35 ◼   ► you got to go you got to go buy a hard drive and not everyone's gonna do that.

00:28:38 ◼   ► mm-hmm yeah. Crash plan. It's time for backup plays. It's uh it's the way to go.

00:28:45 ◼   ► This week Apple introduced app development in Swift. This is a new

00:28:50 ◼   ► community college curriculum built around the Swift programming language.

00:28:55 ◼   ► So Tim Cook has been doing this like great American tour.

00:28:59 ◼   ► He's spoken at some factories.

00:29:02 ◼   ► He was in Austin, Texas where Apple actually has a really big corporate presence in Austin.

00:29:08 ◼   ► He was speaking at the Austin Community College District, which is apparently a 74,000 student

00:29:17 ◼   ► community college or group of community colleges and more or less this is a course on Swift.

00:29:29 ◼   ► This is a quote from Tim Cook.

00:29:30 ◼   ► We've seen first hand how Apple's app ecosystem has transformed the global economy creating

00:29:35 ◼   ► new industries and supporting millions of jobs.

00:29:39 ◼   ► We believe passionately that the same opportunity should be extended to everyone and community

00:29:42 ◼   ► colleges have a powerful reach into communities where education becomes the great equalizer.

00:29:47 ◼   ► feels good. Yeah. It feels nice. Yeah. They've been talking about this, you know, extending

00:29:53 ◼   ► Swift with this type of course. So I think it's, you know, I wonder if we'll ever see

00:29:58 ◼   ► this kind of initiative from Apple outside of the US, but still, I mean, in Italy they

00:30:03 ◼   ► do have the sort of the, what's it called? Not the Apple university, like the app accelerator.

00:30:11 ◼   ► Like the it's like, yeah, you get like a college degree or something and to become an app developer,

00:30:16 ◼   ► it's in Naples and it's structured like a university degree, I think. So that's great.

00:30:25 ◼   ► There's one in India too, I think, now.

00:30:27 ◼   ► Yeah, there's one in India, I think. But it would be great to have this kind of curriculum

00:30:32 ◼   ► in the community colleges as well. So it's great that they've started doing this in the

00:30:37 ◼   ► US. I think it's definitely, you know, it's one of the things that sort of distinguishes

00:30:45 ◼   ► Tim Cook's Apple from what the company was before, especially now that they have their

00:30:50 ◼   ► own programming language. And you can see a certain amount of pride every time Apple

00:30:55 ◼   ► talks about this stuff, whether it's like Swift Playgrounds and what they're doing with,

00:31:00 ◼   ► you know, extending playgrounds to, for example, now kids can, you know, run custom code on

00:31:06 ◼   ► like Bluetooth toys and small drones even. So that's awesome. And you can see how they,

00:31:12 ◼   ► As a company they are proud to ship this kind of software and to create these opportunities

00:31:18 ◼   ► for kids and students.

00:31:21 ◼   ► So I'm really happy to see that they're continuing to do this stuff.

00:31:25 ◼   ► Yeah, and so this is on the iBook store, which we can get to, but this is available, I'd

00:31:33 ◼   ► say it's going to be offered at more than 30 community colleges across the US in the

00:31:36 ◼   ► 2017-2018 school year.

00:31:39 ◼   ► you would imagine that this would grow. And this is separate from things like Swift Playgrounds

00:31:46 ◼   ► on the iPad, but they are slowly building all of this stuff together. And I think it is interesting

00:31:52 ◼   ► that they are using their programming language as a means for civil good, if you can say that.

00:31:58 ◼   ► There's a quote in this press release from the Austin mayor talking about lifting people out

00:32:03 ◼   ► of poverty and into good jobs. I think you're right that Apple leverages Swift for much

00:32:10 ◼   ► more than "just" a programming language.

00:32:14 ◼   ► Yeah, I think you're right. They're sort of using this as -- I think Swift in this regard

00:32:23 ◼   ► is sort of the continuation of -- you know, Apple always said that education is really

00:32:29 ◼   ► important for the company and I think

00:32:31 ◼   ► Swift is now a representation of that.

00:32:33 ◼   ► So I want to talk a little bit about how

00:32:35 ◼   ► they're rolling it out. Like I said this

00:32:36 ◼   ► seems like it's in iBooks and this

00:32:41 ◼   ► comes, I mean they're unrelated stories

00:32:43 ◼   ► except I'm going to try to make them

00:32:45 ◼   ► related, and this comes after last week

00:32:48 ◼   ► Apple announced that in September

00:32:52 ◼   ► iTunes U collections will be

00:32:56 ◼   ► moving into Apple podcasts and that the courses will only be available through the iTunes

00:33:02 ◼   ► U app on iOS. So, I feel like it's always been one of those products that doesn't really

00:33:10 ◼   ► have a home. It kind of got glued into iTunes and they've had an iOS app. Do you remember

00:33:15 ◼   ► – I had a real flashback reading through this – do you remember the UI for iTunes

00:33:21 ◼   ► you at first it was the same bookcase as newsroom but like dark wood instead of light wood it

00:33:27 ◼   ► was like way to go guys good work. Do you mean newsstand? Yes yeah newsstand yeah. Yeah

00:33:35 ◼   ► because I think newsroom is their website for. That's very confusing. Yeah Apple names

00:33:41 ◼   ► man. Newsstand. So yeah I do remember the old iTunes U stuff and there were like some

00:33:47 ◼   ► elements that were like borrowed from iBooks even I think. Those old apps like iTunes U

00:33:55 ◼   ► and the first podcast app, you know with the tape reel and those were the days of iOS UI

00:34:03 ◼   ► design.

00:34:04 ◼   ► So many times.

00:34:05 ◼   ► So I wonder if this stuff of iTunes U collections moving into podcasts and the courses staying

00:34:16 ◼   ► a separate app. Do you think we'll eventually see iTunes U rename to Apple Education or

00:34:22 ◼   ► something as a sign of iTunes as a brand and as a product eventually going away?

00:34:29 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean the iTunes thing is a bigger conversation, but I do think that this is

00:34:34 ◼   ► a step towards dismantling iTunes U and at the same time building up Apple Podcasts,

00:34:40 ◼   ► which is something they have a lot of equity in right now and they're really pushing

00:34:44 ◼   ► on with iOS 11. I do think that the name clearly comes from an age that we're not in anymore.

00:34:51 ◼   ► And there's a lot of talk about iTunes needing to go away, and my money is that 2018 is the

00:34:58 ◼   ► year we see iTunes on the Mac get broken up. But either way, I think what's more interesting

00:35:04 ◼   ► is Apple's still invested in this technology and invested in leveraging these tools for

00:35:13 ◼   ► for, because iTunes U, we should back way up.

00:35:16 ◼   ► For people who aren't familiar with iTunes U,

00:35:18 ◼   ► it is a platform where teachers or even professors

00:35:23 ◼   ► can basically load in content for their classrooms, right?

00:35:28 ◼   ► And students can download them.

00:35:30 ◼   ► There's a bunch of free stuff through iTunes U,

00:35:33 ◼   ► so you can go like, you know, basically look through

00:35:35 ◼   ► the material for a class at Stanford or something,

00:35:37 ◼   ► you know, or whatever.

00:35:39 ◼   ► It still being a standalone iOS app gives me hope

00:35:41 ◼   ► Apple is still invested in this. But yeah, I think iTunes on the Mac, it doesn't bode

00:35:46 ◼   ► well for that software.

00:35:47 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah. I was reading through a bunch of tweets from Marco Aurment a few days ago

00:35:53 ◼   ► and I think what he was imagining made a lot of sense that it's not like Apple will, you

00:36:00 ◼   ► know, have a big ceremony and kill off iTunes very publicly. Instead, it'll probably, you

00:36:05 ◼   ► know, it'll be slowly dismantled and a bunch of functionalities will be rolled out into

00:36:10 ◼   ► other products and into separate apps. And eventually they'll just put iTunes in a legacy

00:36:16 ◼   ► like the utilities folder on the Mac. Because nobody's really, you know, most people are

00:36:22 ◼   ► streaming music or they are using Netflix and, you know, streaming stuff from iTunes

00:36:28 ◼   ► on their Apple TVs. Nobody's really syncing their iPhones and iPads and iPods anymore

00:36:35 ◼   ► with iTunes. And so there's still those folks that sync their music libraries. But maybe

00:36:40 ◼   ► that would be better served by a separate music app instead of having every single feature

00:36:47 ◼   ► into iTunes. So maybe eventually iTunes will go into a folder and if you really want to

00:36:51 ◼   ► use it you will be able to open it and to sync your devices manually but I wouldn't

00:36:55 ◼   ► be surprised if Apple's intention is not to have a big announcement about killing off

00:37:00 ◼   ► iTunes. Instead you see a feature going into podcasts, another feature going into the TV

00:37:07 ◼   ► app and eventually, you know, maybe a couple of years from now, well, iTunes will be not

00:37:12 ◼   ► forgotten but just put there aside and, you know, it's going to be sad for those who,

00:37:20 ◼   ► I mean, iTunes did a lot of good things back in the day, you know, it sort of democratized

00:37:24 ◼   ► the Apple ecosystem in the sense of you have an Apple device, well now you have a single

00:37:28 ◼   ► app to put anything you want in there. So that was awesome but I think it's, you know,

00:37:33 ◼   ► it's passed its time and it's probably time to move on.

00:37:36 ◼   ► I just find it all interesting, they're making moves on content but not using the channels

00:37:40 ◼   ► they may have done a year ago or two years ago.

00:37:43 ◼   ► Alright, so we have more to talk about, but first I want to tell you about our second

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00:39:15 ◼   ► We thank Ting for their support of this show and Relay FM.

00:39:19 ◼   ► A story made the rounds this week about a hardware Kickstarter project, which is usually

00:39:24 ◼   ► something I don't know if we would cover on the show because hardware and Kickstarter

00:39:29 ◼   ► have a mixed history.

00:39:32 ◼   ► - They are probably, usually they are probably worse

00:39:36 ◼   ► than video game Kickstarters.

00:39:38 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:39:39 ◼   ► There have been so many examples of accessories

00:39:43 ◼   ► never shipping or being super delayed

00:39:45 ◼   ► to the point where they come out and they are irrelevant

00:39:48 ◼   ► because the technology has moved on.

00:39:50 ◼   ► But this one comes from a company that a lot of people trust

00:39:54 ◼   ► they're called Astro HQ, they make AstroPad,

00:39:57 ◼   ► is an iPad application to turn the iPad screen into an external display for your Mac, which

00:40:04 ◼   ► a lot of people use. Astropad comes in two versions. One is, you know, we were talking

00:40:10 ◼   ► about this actually just a few minutes ago, the basic version as a paid-up-front traditional

00:40:16 ◼   ► model. The other one, I think it's called Astropad Studio, it uses a subscription model

00:40:21 ◼   ► for users that want more from the app. So that's an interesting way to go about it,

00:40:25 ◼   ► actually release two separate apps and two sort of aimed at two separate audiences.

00:40:31 ◼   ► But anyway, now the makers of AstroPad are making the Luna accessory, which is a little,

00:40:35 ◼   ► should I say, a little dongle that you put into your MacBook and that basically via some

00:40:42 ◼   ► magic, I don't know even how this works, but this little USB thingy, it uses the GPU

00:40:48 ◼   ► the metal APIs on macOS to accelerate the graphics on the iPad screen.

00:40:58 ◼   ► That means that the iPad, if you have a Luna plugged into your MacBook, the iPad now becomes

00:41:03 ◼   ► an external display for anything, not just graphics applications, but for anything that

00:41:09 ◼   ► you want to use your Mac for.

00:41:12 ◼   ► And it's got insane performance to the point of it feels like an actual external display

00:41:17 ◼   ► you know, like something that is being streamed over Wi-Fi.

00:41:20 ◼   ► I don't know how these folks do it,

00:41:22 ◼   ► but the general idea is that because of the GPU acceleration

00:41:27 ◼   ► and because of the Metal API, by going deeper

00:41:30 ◼   ► into the system stack of graphics technologies

00:41:34 ◼   ► on MacOS, they can have better performance

00:41:36 ◼   ► than similar apps that just rely on Wi-Fi.

00:41:39 ◼   ► And that because of that, they have a lot of latency,

00:41:41 ◼   ► they have a lot of lag.

00:41:42 ◼   ► And anybody who's tried this says it's the best iPad as an external display solution

00:41:48 ◼   ► I've ever tried.

00:41:50 ◼   ► So it seems pretty awesome.

00:41:52 ◼   ► Yeah, it really seems like, from the video and people's reactions, it seems like all

00:41:59 ◼   ► the lag and stuff you get over a Wi-Fi setting is gone.

00:42:04 ◼   ► You don't have to use a lightning cable or anything, just this little dongle.

00:42:08 ◼   ► In the video they even show someone on a couch sketching, I think, an Illustrator with the

00:42:11 ◼   ► Apple Pencil, like you don't even see the Mac, like it's just somewhere else, right?

00:42:15 ◼   ► And the iPad can take advantage of it.

00:42:19 ◼   ► It really seems like something Apple would never do, but so many people would like them

00:42:23 ◼   ► to do, because there are some, like, especially illustration apps that are only on Mac OS,

00:42:32 ◼   ► but I think Apple's response would be like, "Well, you should build them for the iPad."

00:42:37 ◼   ► That hasn't really happened with some of these, and it probably won't ever with something

00:42:40 ◼   ► like Adobe Illustrator, but if you do need a Mac app,

00:42:44 ◼   ► but want to use the pencil and the iPad Pro,

00:42:48 ◼   ► this does answer that question.

00:42:50 ◼   ► Like the Kickstarter is like super funded already.

00:42:53 ◼   ► They're at, is this recording like almost $345,000.

00:42:57 ◼   ► Clearly there's demand for this 4,200 backers,

00:43:00 ◼   ► which is way bigger demand than I thought there would be,

00:43:03 ◼   ► but it does seem like something I'm not sure it's for me,

00:43:08 ◼   ► 'cause I really don't have an app on my Mac

00:43:10 ◼   ► that I want to use this way, but if you do, this seems like the best way to go about it.

00:43:15 ◼   ► Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if Apple is looking at this idea from a slightly different

00:43:22 ◼   ► angle. And that is most of these companies, their pitch is use your iPad as an external

00:43:29 ◼   ► display. And that makes a lot of sense if you're that type of user that mostly works

00:43:34 ◼   ► on the Mac, but also as an iPad. And so when you're working on your Mac, you want to find

00:43:39 ◼   ► some utility for the iPad. Instead I would not be surprised if Apple is sort of seeing

00:43:46 ◼   ► this as if they were ever to do a similar feature. Something along the lines of "use

00:43:53 ◼   ► your iPad to control your Mac". Something like "transform the iPad Pro into a Wacom

00:44:00 ◼   ► tablet". You know, with the Apple Pencil and with the, you know, with apps on your iPad,

00:44:04 ◼   ► can now integrate them with similar apps or with companion apps on macOS. And so whereas

00:44:11 ◼   ► these companies, they try to... I don't want to say they demote the iPad as a dumb display,

00:44:19 ◼   ► but they let you use the iPad when you wouldn't probably use the iPad because you're at your

00:44:24 ◼   ► desk. Instead, I think if Apple were to do something like this, they would do, you know,

00:44:30 ◼   ► your iPad Pro and now you can use your iPad to control your Mac. See, does it make any

00:44:37 ◼   ► sense what I'm saying?

00:44:39 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah. I think it does. And I think that opens it up to more users than just people

00:44:46 ◼   ► who want to use Illustrator. It makes it more flexible.

00:44:49 ◼   ► Yeah, and again, this is all speculation. I don't actually know if Apple is planning

00:44:55 ◼   ► something like this. But it would make more sense to me because I cannot see Apple coming

00:45:00 ◼   ► out on stage and saying, "Well, if you hate your iPad, now you can use it as a dumb monitor

00:45:05 ◼   ► for your computer."

00:45:06 ◼   ► I mean, that kind of takes the wind out of the sails of iOS, right?

00:45:11 ◼   ► Pretty much.

00:45:12 ◼   ► Forget all this stuff.

00:45:13 ◼   ► Just everyone's Mac OS over the network.

00:45:16 ◼   ► Yeah, just buy a dongle, because we love to sell you dongles anyway.

00:45:21 ◼   ► They do love dongles.

00:45:22 ◼   ► So buy a dongle and use your iPad as a display.

00:45:24 ◼   ► That's it, we're done.

00:45:25 ◼   ► Pack it up and go home, iPad.

00:45:28 ◼   ► We fired all the iOS engineers. That would be... they're not doing that.

00:45:32 ◼   ► But still, still, if you want to use your iPad as an external display, this is probably

00:45:37 ◼   ► the way to go. And I mean, we all knew that Wi-Fi was a lossy solution to this problem.

00:45:44 ◼   ► So you know, whatever these guys did in terms of code, you know, the fact that they can

00:45:50 ◼   ► hook up with the, you know, with the metal APIs on macOS and the GPU, that seems crazy

00:45:56 ◼   ► to me. So it sounds also crazy awesome. And if I were, you know, that type of user, I

00:46:03 ◼   ► would be all over this. I would probably buy the 10 pack option, you know, just, just buy

00:46:08 ◼   ► a dongle for every occasion, you know? So yeah. So there's that. So best luck to those

00:46:12 ◼   ► guys that seems to be, uh, rocking and rolling. Yeah. So, so Frederick, it is the end of August

00:46:19 ◼   ► and the iPhone event, depending on what you read, could be just a couple of weeks away.

00:46:25 ◼   ► So today the Wall Street Journal is reporting that the iPhone event will take place on September

00:46:32 ◼   ► 12th, which is a Tuesday, and it will take place in the Steve Jobs Theater, which of

00:46:37 ◼   ► course is built at Apple Park.

00:46:40 ◼   ► It has got an above-ground lobby, I guess, an entryway, and then the theater is underground.

00:46:47 ◼   ► We talked about it when they announced the name.

00:46:48 ◼   ► It's a perfect name.

00:46:49 ◼   ► So yeah, I was curious if you think, I mean this seems like the ideal thing to start holding

00:46:57 ◼   ► events at the C-Jobs Theater with, right? Having your iPhone, your biggest product,

00:47:01 ◼   ► introduced there seems like a great way to introduce it. What do you think?

00:47:04 ◼   ► Yeah, and I mean especially after 10 years of the, from the first iPhone, that would

00:47:09 ◼   ► be perfect. I think that would be the right way to look back tastefully, but also look

00:47:16 ◼   ► forward to what is coming to the iPhone's future. So I think that would be a perfect

00:47:20 ◼   ► combination honestly. September 12 as the date, personally I would be extremely relieved

00:47:29 ◼   ► if an event is in mid-September because that would mean that iOS 11 is not launching for

00:47:35 ◼   ► at least a week after the event, which would put the iOS 11 release date at least September

00:47:43 ◼   ► 19th or September 20th. So that would be awesome for me because it means another 20 days of

00:47:47 ◼   ► editing my review and preparing all the little surprises and extras that we're working on.

00:47:54 ◼   ► And also I wonder if maybe pushing the release of the new iPhones by a week, you know, compared

00:48:01 ◼   ► to the previous two years, instead of returning to the pattern of the 2014 releases, I wonder

00:48:09 ◼   ► if it's a product of Apple is making a new phone and they needed slightly more time.

00:48:14 ◼   ► So they had to push the announcement and not in the first week of September but in the

00:48:19 ◼   ► second week with the iPhone launching in the third week of September. So that could be

00:48:22 ◼   ► a possible reason. But if the rumors are correct, we are in for quite the show because Apple

00:48:30 ◼   ► in theory is announcing three new iPhones but also 4K content on iTunes with a 4K Apple

00:48:37 ◼   ► TV launching in theory alongside 4K movies and TV shows on iTunes. And what else? Probably

00:48:44 ◼   ► another announcement/demo of the HomePod. Am I missing something else?

00:48:51 ◼   ► I mean, we'll see software, right? We'll see if we can have iOS 11 and High Sierra.

00:48:56 ◼   ► And of course the new Apple Watch, which according to the rumors has an LTE version this time.

00:49:01 ◼   ► So that would be quite a lot of stuff, you know? No iPads because they did the iPads

00:49:06 ◼   ► in June but still quite the show. There's a lot of stuff man. I think back about two

00:49:11 ◼   ► years ago they had the Apple TV 6s and 6s plus, the big iPad Pro, it was a big two hour

00:49:20 ◼   ► event and this would be on up there with that. I think it would be great to have it at the

00:49:27 ◼   ► theatre. We've talked about this before where they lump other products with the iPhone to

00:49:35 ◼   ► to share that stage with the iPhone, right?

00:49:37 ◼   ► 'Cause that is their biggest, I mean, WBC is big,

00:49:40 ◼   ► but the world cares about the iPhone keynote, right?

00:49:44 ◼   ► People don't really pay attention to WBC as much.

00:49:48 ◼   ► But, so if you have all that attention,

00:49:51 ◼   ► why not do this other stuff

00:49:54 ◼   ► and have these other products ready to go?

00:49:57 ◼   ► And so many of them work together

00:49:59 ◼   ► where the Apple Watch and the phone go together.

00:50:01 ◼   ► And maybe there's something unique there

00:50:03 ◼   ► if you pair it with a new phone

00:50:05 ◼   ► or the Apple TV is sort of always floating,

00:50:08 ◼   ► so they have to stick it with something

00:50:10 ◼   ► to make it make sense?

00:50:12 ◼   ► - Well, this is something that I wonder about in my review,

00:50:17 ◼   ► and I don't remember if I also discuss this on the show,

00:50:22 ◼   ► but there's a section in my IOS 11 review

00:50:25 ◼   ► where I'm talking about the new image and video formats

00:50:29 ◼   ► coming with IOS 11, if and HEVC.

00:50:34 ◼   ► And I wonder if maybe, because Apple is supposedly

00:50:39 ◼   ► going to roll out 4K content, and of course,

00:50:41 ◼   ► traditional 4K content is huge in terms of file sizes.

00:50:46 ◼   ► So I wonder if maybe Apple was waiting for HEVC,

00:50:49 ◼   ► the high efficiency video codec, to roll out with iOS 11,

00:50:54 ◼   ► with tvOS, and with macOS High Sierra.

00:50:57 ◼   ► I wonder if for a 4K Apple TV to come out

00:51:01 ◼   ► and for 4K content to be available on iTunes.

00:51:05 ◼   ► If Apple wanted to have that piece of the ecosystem

00:51:09 ◼   ► in place first, to have HEVC available as a format on iOS

00:51:14 ◼   ► and all the other platforms, and to request all the movie and TV

00:51:22 ◼   ► show companies to release their 4K stuff in that format,

00:51:27 ◼   ► with that codec, which results in better compressions,

00:51:31 ◼   ► smaller file sizes, built-in support for HDR,

00:51:35 ◼   ► and all these other modern features of movie formats

00:51:39 ◼   ► on our devices.

00:51:41 ◼   ► So I do wonder if,

00:51:45 ◼   ► everybody's been saying Apple must do 4K,

00:51:47 ◼   ► and Apple must do 4K,

00:51:49 ◼   ► and Apple knows that they have to do 4K

00:51:50 ◼   ► if they don't wanna be left behind,

00:51:53 ◼   ► but before they can do that,

00:51:55 ◼   ► they wanted to have the underlying technology

00:51:58 ◼   ► done first with a better format.

00:52:00 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's interesting.

00:52:02 ◼   ► Anything they could do to bring those file sizes down

00:52:06 ◼   ► is good for them, but it's good for customers too, right?

00:52:09 ◼   ► If you hit play on the Apple TV

00:52:11 ◼   ► and you're downloading 4K HDR content.

00:52:14 ◼   ► You know, right now,

00:52:15 ◼   ► if you have a pretty decent internet connection,

00:52:16 ◼   ► you hit play on a rental and it just starts, right?

00:52:18 ◼   ► There's enough data coming in that it has plenty of time

00:52:22 ◼   ► to stream it all down locally

00:52:23 ◼   ► before even getting close to needing it.

00:52:27 ◼   ► And 4K is a lot more data, but with this new compression,

00:52:30 ◼   ► they may be able to help balance that out.

00:52:33 ◼   ► I think, the more I think about it,

00:52:35 ◼   ► the more I think you're right

00:52:36 ◼   ► that the 4K Apple TV is dependent on this.

00:52:39 ◼   ► It's also dependent on them having 4K content ready

00:52:43 ◼   ► in iTunes, like we spoke about a couple weeks ago,

00:52:45 ◼   ► having some way to upgrade your 1080 content to 4K.

00:52:48 ◼   ► There's a lot of moving parts there

00:52:50 ◼   ► and the iTunes movies and TV show, you know,

00:52:54 ◼   ► that is probably the most important part

00:52:57 ◼   ► of the iTunes ecosystem.

00:52:58 ◼   ► I think it's probably more important than the music store at this point.

00:53:01 ◼   ► And obviously it's front and center on the Apple TV. So you have to have that,

00:53:06 ◼   ► right? You can't launch a 4k Apple TV and not have 4k,

00:53:10 ◼   ► at least some 4k stuff in the iTunes store. That would just be, that'd be silly.

00:53:14 ◼   ► So there's a lot of moving parts there, but I think the more I think about it,

00:53:17 ◼   ► the more I think you're right that this is sort of all one lump sum.

00:53:21 ◼   ► And again, it's a big stage, so why not do it here if it's already. Yeah,

00:53:26 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:53:27 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:53:27 ◼   ► So we'll see.

00:53:28 ◼   ► Oh, how many days left?

00:53:31 ◼   ► Uh, two weeks at this point.

00:53:33 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:53:33 ◼   ► Just about.

00:53:34 ◼   ► And, and surely if, if this 4k Apple TV is real, we're going to see demos.

00:53:39 ◼   ► We're going to see Netflix or Hulu or somebody, uh, Amazon prime video, uh,

00:53:44 ◼   ► on stage and saying, Hey, we're ready for this on day one, because that's important.

00:53:49 ◼   ► I write that if you, if you have this TV, that's 4k and you have this box, it's 4k.

00:53:54 ◼   ► You want to have all your other stuff.

00:53:56 ◼   ► And so this is this is going to be one where I think we see some demos

00:53:59 ◼   ► I'm sure there'll be there's always a cringe-worthy video game demo

00:54:03 ◼   ► I will get that too

00:54:04 ◼   ► But I mean we'll know within the next couple days if it's the fifth or not because they've got to send invites out if it's quiet

00:54:09 ◼   ► Over the next couple days, then I think the 12th is is much more likely. Yeah, I

00:54:14 ◼   ► was waiting for the invitations to go out today and instead we got the

00:54:20 ◼   ► developer beta 8 of iOS 11

00:54:22 ◼   ► So I was really surprised by that. We don't always get to beta 8 or you know, even better 7

00:54:28 ◼   ► Yeah, so if Apple can still no GM, right?

00:54:31 ◼   ► No, no GM. The GM is gonna be officially announced as usual at the event and you know developers on that day can you know

00:54:40 ◼   ► Maybe the following day can submit

00:54:42 ◼   ► is11 apps to the App Store, so

00:54:46 ◼   ► Definitely looking forward to that because the final week for me means taking screenshots and videos because now I was seven in theory is final

00:54:53 ◼   ► Yeah, I'm super excited about all this. You know, we've been talking about this phone. It feels like about ten years

00:55:00 ◼   ► yeah, like I feel like we've talked about this phone forever and

00:55:03 ◼   ► I'm just super excited about it. The more we learn about the more excited I am about it and

00:55:09 ◼   ► Not everything that introduced will be for me. I don't have a 4k television

00:55:13 ◼   ► I'm not looking to buy a new television so the Apple TV won't be for me yet, I don't

00:55:17 ◼   ► think.

00:55:18 ◼   ► But there's other stuff, you know, an LTE Apple Watch, I'm very curious about how they

00:55:22 ◼   ► pull that off and what that's like in experience.

00:55:24 ◼   ► I'm very curious about the new phone and I think it's going to be a fun fall and, you

00:55:30 ◼   ► know, along with Myke and his, you know, year of enthusiasm or whatever he's called on this

00:55:35 ◼   ► show, like, I think the three of us are just, we're excited about seeing this stuff and

00:55:39 ◼   ► get our hands on it next month.

00:55:40 ◼   ► I think it's called the year of optimism.

00:55:43 ◼   ► Yeah, something.

00:55:45 ◼   ► Myke gives names to everything.

00:55:47 ◼   ► Everything.

00:55:48 ◼   ► Do you know Myke has nicknames for objects in his house?

00:55:52 ◼   ► Yes.

00:55:53 ◼   ► OK.

00:55:53 ◼   ► I know that his canary is called Buster.

00:55:55 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:55:56 ◼   ► Is it called?

00:55:56 ◼   ► Because it busts the bad guys.

00:55:57 ◼   ► Buster or Alfred or--

00:56:00 ◼   ► I think it's Buster.

00:56:01 ◼   ► I'm almost positive.

00:56:02 ◼   ► OK.

00:56:03 ◼   ► He's adorable.

00:56:05 ◼   ► He really is.

00:56:06 ◼   ► All right.

00:56:07 ◼   ► We're gonna get into some teachy-teaches,

00:56:10 ◼   ► but first I wanna tell you about our final sponsor.

00:56:12 ◼   ► That is Crimson Mesa.

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00:56:25 ◼   ► by searching for Ancient Game of the River.

00:56:27 ◼   ► Shokim Niimai is a fun strategy game

00:56:30 ◼   ► for parties or evenings with friends

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00:56:45 ◼   ► but was forgotten for thousands of years.

00:56:46 ◼   ► And now it's back, it's on the iPad, and costs just $9.99.

00:56:51 ◼   ► I know Myke has spent some time with it.

00:56:52 ◼   ► He said it was really fun and simple,

00:56:54 ◼   ► and that there's a lot of tension between the players,

00:56:57 ◼   ► as opposed to making it all about

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00:57:34 ◼   ► Thank you so much to Cryptza Mesa for supporting this show and relay FM.

00:57:39 ◼   ► All right, Federico,

00:57:40 ◼   ► you are here to talk about something that I will admit to you.

00:57:43 ◼   ► I didn't know was a thing in iOS 11 until you suggested it,

00:57:46 ◼   ► that you talk about it. And that is SMS filtering in iOS 11.

00:57:51 ◼   ► So I assume is this like call filtering is an iOS 10 where it detects spam or

00:57:56 ◼   ► what is this? What is this thing?

00:57:57 ◼   ► So last year Apple rolled out the spam calling extensions that allowed the

00:58:04 ◼   ► developers to identify potential robocallers, you know, those companies, awful companies,

00:58:11 ◼   ► that call you and they want to sell you something or maybe it's like it's not even a person

00:58:15 ◼   ► on the other end. Anyway, that was a new extension point in iOS 10. With iOS 11 they want to

00:58:21 ◼   ► tackle another aspect of this problem, of the same problem, which is companies that

00:58:26 ◼   ► spam you over SMS or MMS even, because they found your phone number somewhere and they

00:58:33 ◼   ► they get in touch with you, they send you offers, they send you links, they send you

00:58:36 ◼   ► just annoying messages to catch your attention and you know for spam reasons and engagement

00:58:43 ◼   ► and whatever. So how do you block SMS? Well you cannot really block SMS if you don't know

00:58:50 ◼   ► the source beforehand. So iOS 10 and even iOS 9 I think it featured a built-in unknown

00:59:02 ◼   ► and junk section of the Messages app that, by default,

00:59:06 ◼   ► put messages from unknown contacts into that view

00:59:12 ◼   ► so that you wouldn't be distracted by notifications

00:59:15 ◼   ► so that those messages wouldn't end up

00:59:17 ◼   ► in the main conversation list.

00:59:20 ◼   ► But still, there's still some messages

00:59:25 ◼   ► that go through that filter.

00:59:29 ◼   ► Because sometimes-- I don't know if it ever happens.

00:59:32 ◼   ► to you but sometimes I get these messages that don't actually show a phone number.

00:59:36 ◼   ► They show like a name of a store or I don't know how that works but somehow my iPhone

00:59:44 ◼   ► doesn't recognize that as an unknown contact. And so it goes through the unknown and junk

00:59:50 ◼   ► filter and it ends up in my main conversation list. You know, spammers are really enterprising

00:59:58 ◼   ► They always find a way.

01:00:01 ◼   ► So with iOS 11, there's this new API.

01:00:03 ◼   ► It's called the Identity Lookup API.

01:00:06 ◼   ► And it's the foundation for this new extension type, the SMS

01:00:11 ◼   ► filtering extension.

01:00:13 ◼   ► This allows developers to write apps

01:00:16 ◼   ► that don't block SMS and MMS from these companies.

01:00:21 ◼   ► Again, you cannot block them beforehand,

01:00:23 ◼   ► but you can filter them.

01:00:24 ◼   ► And by filtering them into the unknown and junk

01:00:27 ◼   ► view of the Messages app, you can allow the users to not be distracted by notifications

01:00:34 ◼   ► and to go into that section when they want to clean up and remove all of these conversations.

01:00:39 ◼   ► The filtering extensions, they only work with SMS. They cannot integrate with iMessage,

01:00:48 ◼   ► and they work locally on your device. They cannot integrate with your carrier, for example,

01:00:57 ◼   ► or they cannot integrate with the iMessage protocol.

01:01:01 ◼   ► They are a simple way to listen, basically, for incoming SMS.

01:01:06 ◼   ► And based on a list of keywords or phone numbers

01:01:10 ◼   ► that you want to filter, they can hide those messages

01:01:14 ◼   ► by default and put them into the unknown and junk

01:01:18 ◼   ► view of messages.

01:01:20 ◼   ► There are some details of these extensions

01:01:23 ◼   ► that we should cover.

01:01:24 ◼   ► First, you can only activate one at a time.

01:01:27 ◼   ► Unlike content blockers, if you want, in Safari, if you want,

01:01:30 ◼   ► you can activate multiple content blockers at once.

01:01:33 ◼   ► I don't recommend you do that.

01:01:35 ◼   ► But if you want to, it's possible.

01:01:37 ◼   ► With the SMS filtering extensions,

01:01:39 ◼   ► you can only activate one at a time.

01:01:42 ◼   ► When you go into-- when you have some of these apps installed,

01:01:44 ◼   ► you go into the settings for messages,

01:01:47 ◼   ► and you see the unknown--

01:01:49 ◼   ► I think it's called the filtering section or the unknown

01:01:51 ◼   ► and junk section.

01:01:53 ◼   ► Anyway, you go in there and you see that you can select one of these filters.

01:01:57 ◼   ► You get a message, you get like a permission dialog that says the extension will be able

01:02:01 ◼   ► to read your incoming messages, of course, because it needs to actually take a look at

01:02:06 ◼   ► the phone number or the keywords included in the body of the message.

01:02:11 ◼   ► Once you enable one, it's running in the background, you don't have to do anything else.

01:02:16 ◼   ► So I've been playing with three or four of these.

01:02:19 ◼   ► I think they're going to be an extremely popular category of IS-11 apps because they

01:02:24 ◼   ► remove that tiny frustration of getting SMS from my local grocery store, now for some

01:02:31 ◼   ► reason sends me spam via SMS because they have my phone number, because I have a loyalty

01:02:38 ◼   ► card and they have my details. So a few months ago they decided, "Let's just start sending

01:02:42 ◼   ► Federico some SMS about, you know, vegetables discounted on sale today. I have no idea what

01:02:50 ◼   ► they think that's a great idea, but they do it anyway.

01:02:52 ◼   ► The way that, at least, you know, based on the betas that I've had so far, most developers

01:02:57 ◼   ► are going to offer blacklist and whitelist features. So if you want to make sure that

01:03:04 ◼   ► some SMS, either from a specific phone number or that contain a specific keyword, they go,

01:03:11 ◼   ► are filtered out and they go into the unknown and junk section, you can create a blacklist.

01:03:17 ◼   ► Otherwise if you want to make sure that some SMS, stuff like one-time passwords from your

01:03:22 ◼   ► bank or two-factor authentication codes, if you want to make sure that those SMS go into

01:03:30 ◼   ► the main conversation list and that you get notifications from them, you can whitelist

01:03:35 ◼   ► them. So you can make sure, you know, these are the good ones and these keywords, they

01:03:39 ◼   ► are bad messages, filter them out. I think they're going to be extremely popular and

01:03:46 ◼   ► you know, considering that Apple has already done spam call extensions and now they're

01:03:51 ◼   ► doing SMS filters, I think they're really helping people get rid of these annoyances

01:03:59 ◼   ► on a daily basis. It will be interesting, I think, to see how developers design these

01:04:07 ◼   ► extensions in the sense of I've seen for example developers integrate with core

01:04:15 ◼   ► ml and the natural language api's to automatically detect possible spam

01:04:21 ◼   ► keywords I've also seen some folks try to do like a crowdsourced database of

01:04:28 ◼   ► popular spam keywords so aggregating that data across the extensions user

01:04:36 ◼   ► So it will be interesting to see if most developers settle on "here's the app, create your own

01:04:44 ◼   ► blacklist manually, type in some keywords, type in some phone numbers" or if they will

01:04:49 ◼   ► do some type of smart extension that tries to figure out on its own what is potentially

01:04:55 ◼   ► spam over SMS.

01:04:57 ◼   ► So again, this is probably not a big deal as spam called extensions last year, if only

01:05:05 ◼   ► I think spam calls are more intrusive and more annoying than SMS. But they're still

01:05:12 ◼   ► welcome. So I'm gonna keep one enabled. I still gotta choose the one that I prefer.

01:05:18 ◼   ► But I think it will be a nice addition to iOS.

01:05:21 ◼   ► Yeah, and carriers have tried this. Just like carriers had robocall stuff. But I use...

01:05:27 ◼   ► I was actually trying to find on my phone, I forget the Nomo something, Nomo Robo.

01:05:37 ◼   ► It's like two bucks a month or something and it does a really good job.

01:05:39 ◼   ► You can add calls to the blacklist and they look over them and then add them to their

01:05:45 ◼   ► database so it's crowd sourced a little bit.

01:05:47 ◼   ► But this sort of stuff is nice to have because spam, at least for me, has gotten way worse

01:05:54 ◼   ► on my phone number.

01:05:55 ◼   ► It really got worse when we founded Relay because my phone number was attached to a

01:05:59 ◼   ► bunch of paperwork that I assume is public record, but it's out of control.

01:06:03 ◼   ► So I'm glad that they're doing something here.

01:06:06 ◼   ► And it seems like they're doing it the right way, where it's on-device.

01:06:08 ◼   ► It's very Apple-like, it seems like, in the way that they're going about it.

01:06:12 ◼   ► Yeah, the extension itself, it cannot even talk to the network.

01:06:17 ◼   ► So if you want to have an associated web server that goes along with your app.

01:06:23 ◼   ► So these extensions, as you mentioned, as any other extension on iOS, they are bundled

01:06:28 ◼   ► with an app that you download from the App Store.

01:06:31 ◼   ► But the extension itself, it cannot talk to the network, it doesn't have network access.

01:06:37 ◼   ► And the way that Apple has designed the Identity Lookup API is iOS acts as a middleman.

01:06:44 ◼   ► iOS talks to your server, and if your server wants to evaluate some keywords that the extension

01:06:50 ◼   ► doesn't understand, or if your server has some more information about potential spam

01:06:55 ◼   ► keywords. Anyway, iOS talks to the network, and then iOS passes that information back

01:07:02 ◼   ► to the extension. So there's no direct network access between the extension and the server.

01:07:08 ◼   ► There's iOS in the middle taking care of that translation between the two. So Apple always

01:07:13 ◼   ► likes to design these APIs with privacy and security in mind.

01:07:19 ◼   ► And I'm not a technical expert, but looking

01:07:22 ◼   ► through the documentation, from what I can understand,

01:07:25 ◼   ► it seems that they are following through.

01:07:28 ◼   ► The same with content blockers and spam calling last year.

01:07:32 ◼   ► These APIs are always designed to make sure

01:07:34 ◼   ► that user information is not given away to developers

01:07:40 ◼   ► and given away to extensions.

01:07:41 ◼   ► So the Identity Lookup API follows content blockers.

01:07:45 ◼   ► For example, they cannot see the URL of the web page

01:07:48 ◼   ► that you're visiting at the moment.

01:07:51 ◼   ► And it doesn't surprise me that Apple has designed the API

01:07:55 ◼   ► this way.

01:07:56 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:07:57 ◼   ► You know, it pops up every once in a while.

01:08:02 ◼   ► I saw it kind of floating on tour the other day of like,

01:08:05 ◼   ► the phone numbers, like the app or messages,

01:08:08 ◼   ► is really the only thing on your phone that really

01:08:11 ◼   ► can take over the phone, so you get a phone call,

01:08:13 ◼   ► that UI takes over the whole screen.

01:08:15 ◼   ► People are like, "Well, it'll just be a notification."

01:08:17 ◼   ► I don't know how I feel about that,

01:08:18 ◼   ► but same thing with SMS in particular.

01:08:21 ◼   ► These things can just come to you.

01:08:24 ◼   ► And, you know, or something like the weather,

01:08:27 ◼   ► or with Twitter or Instagram, I'm going to it,

01:08:29 ◼   ► but with phone number, it feels like stuff

01:08:32 ◼   ► is just always pouring in.

01:08:33 ◼   ► And so to have some smart stuff built up around that

01:08:36 ◼   ► to make it a better experience,

01:08:38 ◼   ► you know, it's like, yes, let's leverage

01:08:39 ◼   ► what iOS can do, what the iPhone can do to make this better for people.

01:08:44 ◼   ► And so I'm excited they were adding it.

01:08:46 ◼   ► I can't believe I missed it over the summer, but I'm glad you explained it.

01:08:50 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:08:51 ◼   ► I feel, I feel, I feel teached, so to speak.

01:08:53 ◼   ► You feel teached.

01:08:54 ◼   ► Okay.

01:08:55 ◼   ► That, that is great to know.

01:08:56 ◼   ► That is great to know.

01:08:57 ◼   ► I think that does it for this week.

01:08:58 ◼   ► I think we're done.

01:08:59 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:09:00 ◼   ► If you, if you want to find show notes this week, point your web browser to relay.fm/connected/157.

01:09:08 ◼   ► While you're there, we should mention that it is still August, and that is Relay FM's

01:09:13 ◼   ► birthday month, and we're winding down our membership drive.

01:09:16 ◼   ► If you're not a member, go check out relay.fm/membership.

01:09:20 ◼   ► You get lots of goodies.

01:09:22 ◼   ► You can support this show, you can support all the great shows, so every Relay FM host

01:09:27 ◼   ► benefits, but lots of goodies.

01:09:31 ◼   ► We're doing member-only episodes, we have a newsletter, we got a bunch of 5K wallpapers,

01:09:36 ◼   ► A lot of fun stuff, so relay.fm/membership.

01:09:39 ◼   ► If you are a member, thank you so much for your support.

01:09:44 ◼   ► If you wanna find us online, Myke isn't here,

01:09:48 ◼   ► but if he were here, he would be on Twitter,

01:09:50 ◼   ► at twitter.com/imike, I-M-Y-K-E.

01:09:54 ◼   ► You can find Federico at maxstories.net

01:09:58 ◼   ► and Vitici on Twitter, and you can find me

01:10:00 ◼   ► at 512pixels.net, and I am I-S-M-H.

01:10:04 ◼   ► And I think that's it.

01:10:07 ◼   ► So until next time, Federico, say goodbye.

01:10:10 ◼   ► - Adios, echos. - Adios.