Connected

00:00:00 ◼   ► [Music]

00:00:05 ◼   ► From VLA FM, this is Connected, episode 154.

00:00:09 ◼   ► Today's show is brought to you by FreshBooks, Balance, and Encapsula.

00:00:14 ◼   ► My name is Myke Hurley, and I am joined by Mr. Steven Hackett.

00:00:17 ◼   ► Hello, Steven Hackett.

00:00:18 ◼   ► Hello, Michael Hurley.

00:00:20 ◼   ► Mr. Federico Vittucci.

00:00:21 ◼   ► Ciao Federico.

00:00:22 ◼   ► Ciao Myke, how are you?

00:00:24 ◼   ► I'm good.

00:00:25 ◼   ► I'm on edge because this is probably the most ambitious, from a recording perspective, we

00:00:32 ◼   ► have ever tried with this show.

00:00:35 ◼   ► So you want an iPad?

00:00:36 ◼   ► I'm using an iPhone and Federico's using an iPod.

00:00:39 ◼   ► No, this is not true.

00:00:41 ◼   ► So Stephen, you are at home in your office.

00:00:44 ◼   ► There is no change on your side.

00:00:47 ◼   ► I am in New York in a hotel room with a bunch of equipment that I've only used once.

00:00:54 ◼   ► Federico is at the beach tethering. Yeah, whilst also using High Sierra on a Mac

00:01:00 ◼   ► So we are like really just throwing

00:01:02 ◼   ► This so strange because he was using beta software

00:01:06 ◼   ► Uh-huh to record this part. Are you not?

00:01:09 ◼   ► Not using beta software. No, I I don't believe you. I'm on Sierra

00:01:14 ◼   ► I wish that I wasn't even on Sierra, but this is the situation that I'm in for reasons

00:01:19 ◼   ► We'll get into a little later on the show that I don't want to talk about right fine

00:01:23 ◼   ► Alright. But no, I've run, I always try and stay behind on the Mac. So, you know, if you

00:01:28 ◼   ► just don't touch things, then it will continue to work.

00:01:31 ◼   ► Well, I mean, you stay behind on the Mac anyway, so.

00:01:33 ◼   ► Yeah, exactly, because I mean, old platforms, am I right? Inherently behind on my, anyway,

00:01:39 ◼   ► so I just… This is already off to a great start.

00:01:41 ◼   ► Excellent start. So I'm in New York City right now.

00:01:43 ◼   ► Is it a great start? It's brilliant. It's perfect. So I'm

00:01:46 ◼   ► in New York right now, and I've had two observations that I wanted to share with you

00:01:50 ◼   ► you both about using technology in New York City.

00:01:53 ◼   ► Okay.

00:01:54 ◼   ► Number one is that GPS is basically unusable. My phone never knows where I am when I'm walking

00:01:59 ◼   ► around. So like trying to find somewhere on Broadway or whatever, Times Square, it's impossible.

00:02:06 ◼   ► It can never seem to really find where I am. It never knows what location I'm going in.

00:02:10 ◼   ► So like I'm having to basically just ignore the GPS now and I'm just looking at street

00:02:15 ◼   ► signs and just map reading. And I found that really interesting because I don't have this

00:02:19 ◼   ► problem in London. It must just be something about the amount of tall

00:02:23 ◼   ► buildings because the density of tall buildings is higher here than in

00:02:26 ◼   ► central London. But I just found that really interesting. The other which is

00:02:30 ◼   ► more frustrating is that my AirPods are really unreliable when walking around

00:02:35 ◼   ► the streets. Like they keep breaking up and like stuttering. So like I...

00:02:41 ◼   ► Does that happen in London?

00:02:42 ◼   ► No. I've had it happen to me a couple of times but like taking them out and

00:02:48 ◼   ► putting them back in it's fine but like I'm walking around here and it's just

00:02:53 ◼   ► kind of cutting out and weirdly it seems to be like if like that seems to

00:02:59 ◼   ► sometimes cut like based on my movement so like as I'm walking it like cuts for

00:03:04 ◼   ► every step sometimes or like if I move my head one of the air pods cuts out so

00:03:10 ◼   ► like I'm wondering if there's some kind of Bluetooth thing where like so many

00:03:15 ◼   ► devices and sending it a little bit crazy, and it doesn't seem to make a difference

00:03:20 ◼   ► whether I have the case with me or not.

00:03:22 ◼   ► And I just wondered if this is a normal thing.

00:03:25 ◼   ► I feel like it can't be because I would have heard this more, but it's been almost

00:03:30 ◼   ► unusable today.

00:03:31 ◼   ► It's not just been a little bit, it's like a constant thing.

00:03:36 ◼   ► It's probably the government, first of all.

00:03:38 ◼   ► Gosh darn it.

00:03:39 ◼   ► Yeah, that's true.

00:03:40 ◼   ► Some people in the chat room are saying that they see this sometimes in densely populated

00:03:44 ◼   ► areas so it definitely could be a thing I'm really curious if you have this

00:03:48 ◼   ► issue please let us know yeah I would like to know I would really like to like

00:03:51 ◼   ► if this is the thing that happens to people especially in big cities like New

00:03:55 ◼   ► York but it hasn't happened to me in London but it's it's been really bad

00:04:00 ◼   ► when walking around

00:04:01 ◼   ► hmm that's weird I I sometimes have problems with mine dropping out if I

00:04:07 ◼   ► change direction too quickly so like if I'm on a bike I'll wear just one of them

00:04:14 ◼   ► sometimes and if I turn my head real quickly sometimes there'll be a little stutter or

00:04:18 ◼   ► if I'm at the gym and I do something where I end up like, I don't know, like doing back

00:04:26 ◼   ► extensions or something where like my head is upright and then it's not anymore like

00:04:30 ◼   ► if I'm leaning way far over or something sometimes I'll get a drop like it's just weird little

00:04:34 ◼   ► things from time to time but I have not had anything like that and but I've also never

00:04:38 ◼   ► been in that densely populated area with AirPods.

00:04:40 ◼   ► I mean, I work in my backyard.

00:04:43 ◼   ► Not a lot of people out here.

00:04:44 ◼   ► It's very quiet.

00:04:45 ◼   ► Very quiet.

00:04:47 ◼   ► So yeah, the air pods are weird.

00:04:50 ◼   ► But I do love them still, but weird.

00:04:53 ◼   ► Should we do some more traditional follow up?

00:04:55 ◼   ► We should.

00:04:56 ◼   ► And this show is going to really, I think,

00:04:59 ◼   ► bend our definition of follow up.

00:05:01 ◼   ► Because scrolling through this, a lot of the topics,

00:05:04 ◼   ► almost all of the topics, are part follow up.

00:05:07 ◼   ► So it's going to be hard to draw a line here.

00:05:09 ◼   ► But we're going to get into this.

00:05:10 ◼   ► This is a very special episode today.

00:05:15 ◼   ► It is something.

00:05:17 ◼   ► So last week we spoke about the Apple Watch as sort of a spiritual successor to the iPod

00:05:22 ◼   ► and we were going on and on about how great it would be if Apple Music could do something

00:05:25 ◼   ► with the watch.

00:05:27 ◼   ► And turns out WatchOS 4 does some stuff with Apple Music.

00:05:33 ◼   ► We had a bunch of tweets and emails about this because none of us are running this right

00:05:39 ◼   ► So we weren't really aware of it, but it basically seems like the music app on iOS and it can

00:05:49 ◼   ► send the songs you love the most.

00:05:52 ◼   ► I guess if you listen to them or if you heart them in Apple Music, it will sync some of

00:05:56 ◼   ► those to the watch.

00:05:58 ◼   ► I don't really understand like the parameters that you have to cross into to have music

00:06:03 ◼   ► sync, but the idea is that you have some up-to-date music on your watch at all times.

00:06:08 ◼   ► Yeah, it seems like it's sending the, like a combination of your personal mixes.

00:06:15 ◼   ► So like my new music mix and my favorites mix and the new recently launched my chill

00:06:20 ◼   ► mix.

00:06:21 ◼   ► And it's also sending the, I think it's called the heavy rotation playlist, which is basically

00:06:25 ◼   ► like the songs you love and the ones you listen to the most in any given time period.

00:06:30 ◼   ► And I saw today that on beta five of iOS 11, which we'll talk about in a minute, there's

00:06:36 ◼   ► a new dialogue when you open the music app and if you have an Apple Watch paired with

00:06:39 ◼   ► your device, you will get this screen that tells you there's going to be music automatically

00:06:44 ◼   ► sent to your watch so you can listen offline without having to, you know, it's automatically

00:06:52 ◼   ► downloaded on your watch and you can select with a few toggles the playlists that you

00:06:58 ◼   ► want to keep on your Apple Watch, which is quite handy because as soon as you start the

00:07:02 ◼   ► app you can say well yes I automatically have this music for me so I don't have

00:07:07 ◼   ► to think about it anymore so that's getting closer to what I envisioned last

00:07:12 ◼   ► week about you know sort of like having an extension that you can say send this

00:07:17 ◼   ► to my watch it's good to see that there's an automatic option that takes

00:07:22 ◼   ► care of that for users in you know especially for the playlist that a lot

00:07:26 ◼   ► of people listen to. I think that's a great idea.

00:07:29 ◼   ► Yeah, man, me too. So there's also some talk like today, or I guess yesterday with Beta

00:07:36 ◼   ► 5, that the now playing complication has been removed from watchOS 4, which is a bummer

00:07:42 ◼   ► if that is true. I've got to think that's temporary, right? Like, that seems like an

00:07:47 ◼   ► important complication to have.

00:07:48 ◼   ► That feels like a bug. Why would you remove now? I mean, maybe because you, I could see

00:07:54 ◼   ► Apple maybe saying you can access now playing from the dock but that doesn't make any sense

00:08:00 ◼   ► because you know the Apple watch is all about customization and having multiple options

00:08:04 ◼   ► so why would you remove the complication? I don't know. So I haven't installed Watch

00:08:10 ◼   ► OS 4 yet but I plan to especially because I want to try this automatic music stuff and

00:08:16 ◼   ► also the Siri watch face. My only problem that I tried you know I tried yesterday is

00:08:22 ◼   ► downloading betas while on vacation using personal hotspot. So if you...

00:08:27 ◼   ► there's two ways to download a beta. You can download the actual file that you

00:08:32 ◼   ► restore with iTunes or you can do the OTA installation. When you do the OTA

00:08:37 ◼   ► installation with the profile, so you do directly on iOS, you cannot download and

00:08:43 ◼   ► install over 4G. And this is one of my bigger complaints about going on

00:08:48 ◼   ► vacation without having Wi-Fi at home, just using the iPhone and iPad with their 4G connections.

00:08:56 ◼   ► Even if I have like 20 gigabytes of like my monthly plan with on my iPad is 20 gigabytes

00:09:04 ◼   ► and I have another 15 on my iPhone, so I have plenty of data, I cannot choose like let me

00:09:10 ◼   ► download the firmware file and install it or let me download a game even if it's one

00:09:15 ◼   ► gigabyte. Like this is something that I understand that I want to do because I

00:09:18 ◼   ► have enough, you know, capacity in my data plan. But iOS doesn't let you.

00:09:24 ◼   ► And there are so many things that iOS still doesn't let you do, whether it's by,

00:09:27 ◼   ► you know, whether it's something that Apple decided, or limitations of

00:09:31 ◼   ► third parties like streaming HD YouTube videos. I like those limitations feel

00:09:35 ◼   ► like something that, like solutions to a problem that was kind of mainstream

00:09:43 ◼   ► years ago, but now I don't think, especially in Europe, I don't think it's too uncommon to have these crazy data plans

00:09:49 ◼   ► that are relatively cheap and

00:09:51 ◼   ► you can stream a lot of video, you can download a lot of games on 4G. Often

00:09:55 ◼   ► it's even better than the Wi-Fi I have at home,

00:09:57 ◼   ► but I cannot use it because Apple or others decided that I cannot use it and that kind of, that really annoys me because

00:10:05 ◼   ► yesterday I

00:10:07 ◼   ► I had to basically create a personal hotspot on my iPhone and then install the firmware on my iPad because personal hotspot kind of

00:10:14 ◼   ► Makes the iPad believe that it's on Wi-Fi

00:10:17 ◼   ► That doesn't make any sense, but it's the only workaround that I can think of

00:10:21 ◼   ► Yeah, I feel like this is something that

00:10:24 ◼   ► You know

00:10:25 ◼   ► I don't think you should

00:10:27 ◼   ► Apple should just change the setting for like in general like to be like oh use whatever you want

00:10:32 ◼   ► But it would be maybe a thing you could have in like the carrier section just like a toggle of like data usage limits or something

00:10:39 ◼   ► You know, so you could just be like just let me do it. Just let me use this as if it's

00:10:44 ◼   ► Wi-Fi because I mean if you

00:10:46 ◼   ► Took the data plan from your iPad

00:10:49 ◼   ► Turned the iPad into a personal hotspot. You could then download that wherever you want on the phone

00:10:54 ◼   ► Right, and it's just taking it from the iPad data plan

00:10:57 ◼   ► So like if you can do that, then it's the same thing, just in a weird reverse kind of

00:11:04 ◼   ► order. So just let me make the decision. You know what, it's weird, right? Because you

00:11:09 ◼   ► can trick it by using two devices. So why can't I just do it? And I get the idea of

00:11:16 ◼   ► not having this kind of thing on by default, because there would be people that would just

00:11:19 ◼   ► destroy their data plans and get huge charges. But a toggle would be really good, and it's

00:11:24 ◼   ► it's something you could just hide in the carrier settings or something like that.

00:11:28 ◼   ► Yeah, it's like it's like speed limit like my car has a speed limit button that you press

00:11:34 ◼   ► and once it's engaged the car doesn't go over 130 kilometers on the highway even if you

00:11:40 ◼   ► keep pushing on the gas but I can disable the speed limit and either I get a ticket

00:11:45 ◼   ► you know I get fined because I go over.

00:11:48 ◼   ► Not that I would but or like if if I'm on an empty road and I know what I'm doing you

00:11:52 ◼   ► know, it's my choice and you know, I feel like with this cellular stuff, I'm not saying

00:12:00 ◼   ► that we should go over the speed limit by the way, it's just...

00:12:02 ◼   ► You're walking into some real tricky...

00:12:04 ◼   ► No, I'm not saying that, I'm saying...

00:12:07 ◼   ► You take your car to Germany and you go on the Autobahn, that's what you're talking about,

00:12:11 ◼   ► right?

00:12:12 ◼   ► Oh yeah, it's easy to get that confused.

00:12:14 ◼   ► Yeah and I mean, it's one of those like design choices from the manufacturer that they believe

00:12:22 ◼   ► that's the best option for you but they don't necessarily know the context that

00:12:26 ◼   ► you're in. So in my case I have a lot of gigabytes and I cannot use them because

00:12:33 ◼   ► for some reason Apple thinks that it's the best option for everyone to not use

00:12:37 ◼   ► those, you know, to not go over a hundred megabytes on the App Store and to not

00:12:41 ◼   ► download betas. And I understand that argument, it makes sense for most

00:12:45 ◼   ► people but it's also true that a lot of people do have the data to

00:12:51 ◼   ► do those things and we are forced to use this workarounds and so this is all

00:12:56 ◼   ► basically a parenthesis to say that I want to download watchOS 4 beta

00:13:01 ◼   ► yesterday but I couldn't because after I downloaded my iPad beta at the

00:13:09 ◼   ► beach I had to go because it took a while and I didn't have time and it's

00:13:15 ◼   ► very sad because I wanted to try watchOS 4. You sound like unnecessarily

00:13:20 ◼   ► sad about it. You sound like really down about this.

00:13:22 ◼   ► I'm very down about it because I wanted to, you know, to try the beta, to try all the

00:13:27 ◼   ► new... I know, Myke, that you love when people say to try the new beta bits. And I wanted

00:13:32 ◼   ► to try the beta bits. I'm sure you did. You want all those good

00:13:35 ◼   ► bits. All those bits, Myke.

00:13:38 ◼   ► Put the bits on your watch. Talking about the watch, there are lots of

00:13:42 ◼   ► rumours, well, thanks to the treasure trove of information that was the HomePod firmware,

00:13:48 ◼   ► Which is probably going to be, you guys mentioned it last week, like, favourite story of the

00:13:55 ◼   ► year contender, right, like when we do our wrap up.

00:13:58 ◼   ► Because this thing is just so wonderful, like the amount of stories and information that

00:14:02 ◼   ► have come out.

00:14:03 ◼   ► So because now, when there are more rumours of something, so like there was a big Bloomberg

00:14:07 ◼   ► article about there's going to be another Apple Watch this year, people start digging

00:14:12 ◼   ► into the HomePod firmware again looking for stuff and there's more kind of traces to confirm

00:14:17 ◼   ► that it looks like that there will be a LTE enabled Apple Watch at some point this year,

00:14:24 ◼   ► probably around September.

00:14:27 ◼   ► I'm all for it. I really am. I mean, we've talked a lot about this. We talked about it

00:14:33 ◼   ► last week. I feel like I talk about it every time I talk about the Watch. This seems like

00:14:37 ◼   ► an obvious next step and one that I'm excited about.

00:14:40 ◼   ► Yeah. I mean, we were talking about this with Silvio just a few days ago. We were into the

00:14:47 ◼   ► problem where now we have to go out with the dogs in the morning so they can do their things

00:14:54 ◼   ► and often we're in a rush so they don't do their things inside the house and usually

00:15:00 ◼   ► in the morning our iPhones are still charging often because I fall asleep listening to music

00:15:06 ◼   ► so my iPhone didn't charge at all so as soon as I wake up I attach it to the charger and

00:15:11 ◼   ► I was walking out the door and I didn't get my iPhone I was like you know it would be

00:15:15 ◼   ► great if the Apple Watch had a SIM card and so even if my mom calls me or whatever I still

00:15:20 ◼   ► get those messages and I can still do something on my watch. It's kind of like having a mini

00:15:24 ◼   ► iPhone without having to get to take my iPhone with me and I know that it sounds crazy to

00:15:29 ◼   ► you know why wouldn't you take your iPhone with you because you know everybody has a

00:15:34 ◼   ► smartphone as a smartphone all the time but I feel like these brief moments of the day

00:15:42 ◼   ► whether you're working out or you're going for a walk with the dog, you know, it's going

00:15:48 ◼   ► to be great to have just a little computer on your wrist and you can forget about the

00:15:53 ◼   ► smartphone and just have that useful connection to the outside world on your wrist.

00:16:00 ◼   ► That's going to be awesome I think.

00:16:02 ◼   ► It does raise a lot of questions about how it would work, how it would…

00:16:06 ◼   ► I mean I assume this thing is not going to be like a full-fledged iPhone where it's

00:16:10 ◼   ► on the cellular network all the time. My thought is that if it's companion iPhone

00:16:15 ◼   ► goes away then it either like gives you a little bump that says hey do you want to

00:16:19 ◼   ► turn LTE on or maybe it does it automatically. You know kind of like the

00:16:24 ◼   ► the GPS on the watch is only on when you are using a workout that utilizes GPS

00:16:30 ◼   ► it's not on all the time to to save that battery. I think the LTE is going to kind

00:16:34 ◼   ► of be on demand as opposed to something like the phone or maybe even a cellular

00:16:37 ◼   ► iPad where it's just it's kind of on all the time and iOS can use the data for

00:16:41 ◼   ► whatever it wants. I think to manage that battery life they're gonna have to put

00:16:46 ◼   ► some constraints on it. I think it's fine I think I think they can totally do that

00:16:49 ◼   ► because you know most of the time my phone is gonna be with my watch right I

00:16:53 ◼   ► don't hardly ever go anywhere without it but if I want to go for a run or a bike

00:16:57 ◼   ► ride or workout and leave my phone somewhere else then it you know it

00:17:01 ◼   ► should do the right thing kind of be able to stay in on its own in those

00:17:04 ◼   ► situations.

00:17:05 ◼   ► All right, should I take a break?

00:17:07 ◼   ► Let's do it.

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00:19:03 ◼   ► So we have, oh my God, the HomePod stuff again.

00:19:08 ◼   ► Never ends.

00:19:09 ◼   ► I wonder if this, do you think we're going to keep finding out more or do you think we've

00:19:14 ◼   ► probably got everything we can get out of this?

00:19:16 ◼   ► I don't know. I mean, I feel like just now on Twitter, as we started recording the show,

00:19:19 ◼   ► someone found something about the phone knows or can tell if you're looking at it and would

00:19:24 ◼   ► mute notification sounds if it senses that you're aware of the phone. I don't know. It

00:19:28 ◼   ► seems like there's all sorts of stuff in here.

00:19:31 ◼   ► But there's another one. There's more hints of an Apple TV refresh as well. It is weird

00:19:36 ◼   ► to me. Like, why is every single product mentioned in this thing? It's very confusing to me.

00:19:43 ◼   ► It's like a parade of leaks.

00:19:45 ◼   ► Yeah, it's just one file in everything.

00:19:48 ◼   ► Let's just put everything in there.

00:19:50 ◼   ► I don't know, one idea could be that because all of these devices can now talk to each

00:19:55 ◼   ► other with stuff like continuity and automatic setup, you know when you tap to set up a nearby

00:20:02 ◼   ► device, the reason to include these flags and these sort of headers for different devices

00:20:08 ◼   ► is to make sure that the HomePod is aware of other similar devices in the ecosystem.

00:20:13 ◼   ► So like if you want to, for example, I don't know, but maybe stream a video or a song from

00:20:22 ◼   ► the Apple TV to the HomePod, maybe you can.

00:20:25 ◼   ► Or like if, and of course, if you want to stream a podcast from the iPhone Pro to the

00:20:29 ◼   ► HomePod and to the new Apple TV, it's just to make sure that all of these new devices

00:20:34 ◼   ► are aware of each other.

00:20:36 ◼   ► And that's my interpretation for why all of these product names and placeholders are in

00:20:41 ◼   ► there.

00:20:42 ◼   ► It's kind of weird though.

00:20:45 ◼   ► Imagine how many things that we don't know are actually in the betas that we try every

00:20:51 ◼   ► year.

00:20:52 ◼   ► And this time we got lucky.

00:20:53 ◼   ► So it's kind of a fascinating glimpse into how the machine works.

00:20:58 ◼   ► It's like someone was using Xcode as a note editor.

00:21:01 ◼   ► Like, "Oh, all this stuff I'm working on, I'll label it top secret so no one sees it."

00:21:05 ◼   ► This rumor though it so there's reference in the the source code to a 4k Apple TV that

00:21:14 ◼   ► seemed like it would be capable of HDR output.

00:21:17 ◼   ► So if you have a 4k HDR TV, this thing would look awesome.

00:21:22 ◼   ► If you're like me and have a 1089 HDR TV, then you get to skip an upgrade cycle.

00:21:26 ◼   ► But this does match with reports from a couple of weeks ago, there was a mac rumor story.

00:21:31 ◼   ► noticed like 4k HDR in their iTunes purchase history like a little flag had

00:21:36 ◼   ► been set wrong and you know if you you still can which blows my mind you can

00:21:41 ◼   ► buy SD content in iTunes and it'll say like SD or HD seems like 4k HDR was a

00:21:47 ◼   ► label in there and there was a talk then this was last month that Apple could be

00:21:53 ◼   ► getting iTunes and like the movie rentals business ready for 4k / 4k HDR

00:21:59 ◼   ► content and obviously they're not going to do that unless they have an Apple TV

00:22:03 ◼   ► to play it on so I think if this is true all this will come at once we'll see the

00:22:07 ◼   ► 4k HDR Apple TV and we'll see 4k HDR content available in iTunes I'm sure to

00:22:13 ◼   ► be very limited at first just like it was when they rolled out HD video it

00:22:17 ◼   ► took some time for everything to sort of get updated and some stuff didn't but

00:22:21 ◼   ► it's time for this 4k televisions are here to stay and it seems like Apple may

00:22:26 ◼   ► finally be kind of getting all the pieces together which is which is great

00:22:29 ◼   ► I mean the future of television may not be apps like Apple said it was going to

00:22:34 ◼   ► be but 4k and HDR are definitely here to stay and they need to address that you

00:22:40 ◼   ► know if you have a 1080 if a regular Apple TV now into a 4k TV looks okay

00:22:45 ◼   ► most TVs kind of sample that stuff and scale it up and where it looks alright

00:22:50 ◼   ► but having this in 4k really would would be nice. Steve John Smith on Twitter I

00:22:56 ◼   ► think today was talking about you know developers of Apple TV apps apparently

00:23:01 ◼   ► people develop still develop out with us. I know it's really

00:23:05 ◼   ► confusing that you know you need to get like 2x assets ready and so this is will

00:23:12 ◼   ► be very much like the retina transition on iOS where you have your regular sort

00:23:17 ◼   ► of 1x graphics which are you know for the 1080 and then you'll have 2x for 4k and uh

00:23:24 ◼   ► so yeah it seems like that that is uh where this is headed and i think it's um i think

00:23:30 ◼   ► it's great and mike i had a question for you you bought a tv this this year did you buy

00:23:34 ◼   ► 4k television yeah 4k hdr enabled tv okay so does this excite you as someone who like

00:23:39 ◼   ► your tv can take advantage of all this like is this something you would get oh without

00:23:43 ◼   ► a shadow of a doubt, because my TV has a bunch of apps built into it, like Netflix and Amazon

00:23:49 ◼   ► and stuff, and those applications, they show HD content, like, sorry, 4K HDR content, and

00:23:57 ◼   ► it's unbelievable. Like, we watched House of Cards in 4K, and it just looks fantastic.

00:24:02 ◼   ► I mean, House of Cards isn't the best for this because everything's just dark, right?

00:24:06 ◼   ► Right, right. In more way than one. Exactly. But there's, you know, we've seen some nature

00:24:10 ◼   ► shows that the BBC iPlayer app has this like HDR demo thing which I was just

00:24:16 ◼   ► screaming the whole time I was watching it because it looks so good. So I like it

00:24:19 ◼   ► I like that content a lot and you know I'm fine using the TV apps but like the

00:24:25 ◼   ► Apple TV apps are better than the apps that I use on my TV right? I would love

00:24:29 ◼   ► to be able to watch YouTube videos in 4k and all that sort of stuff so this would

00:24:35 ◼   ► be a purchase that I would make I would upgrade mine. Okay. Plus I do I

00:24:40 ◼   ► I mean, look, I want to keep beating around this,

00:24:42 ◼   ► but I will keep saying it.

00:24:43 ◼   ► I have the bandwidth for it.

00:24:45 ◼   ► It's no problem.

00:24:47 ◼   ► I have amazing internet.

00:24:48 ◼   ► I don't know if you knew that.

00:24:49 ◼   ► Oh, I was unaware of what I mentioned today.

00:24:52 ◼   ► It is true.

00:24:53 ◼   ► It is true.

00:24:53 ◼   ► I've seen it.

00:24:54 ◼   ► It's fast.

00:24:55 ◼   ► Oh, yeah.

00:24:56 ◼   ► When Federico came to my house, I showed him speed tests.

00:24:59 ◼   ► I was--

00:25:00 ◼   ► Should have downloaded your beta then.

00:25:04 ◼   ► He was bragging to me.

00:25:05 ◼   ► He was like, oh, you're not even in the best spot in the house.

00:25:08 ◼   ► You should go near the Wi-Fi.

00:25:09 ◼   ► you can get even faster speeds. It's like it's fine man this is plenty fast.

00:25:16 ◼   ► Steven I'm gonna quiz you here all right we're gonna do a little Apple history

00:25:20 ◼   ► quiz because I need you to give me a name of something. Do you remember when the

00:25:26 ◼   ► iTunes store all the music was increased in bitrate? Mm-hmm. There was a program

00:25:34 ◼   ► that Apple did where it allowed you to pay a little bit of money right and you

00:25:39 ◼   ► could increase the quality of all your songs? Yes. Do you remember what that was called?

00:25:46 ◼   ► Was it like mastered for iTunes? No, that's something different. That's when an album

00:25:50 ◼   ► is like specifically been mastered for digital. Yeah, it wasn't complete my album. That's

00:25:58 ◼   ► like if I own two songs. And you want to just buy the rest of them. It's called iTunes Plus.

00:26:03 ◼   ► iTunes Plus, good work. I found the K-Bass article. Of course you did. So I'm hoping

00:26:09 ◼   ► that they will have something like this for iTunes purchase content right so

00:26:13 ◼   ► that you don't have to buy everything again you can just pay a little bit of

00:26:16 ◼   ► money for all the movies that you own and now they're in 4k I hope they do

00:26:22 ◼   ► that that would be good it'd be nice iTunes that would be iTunes plus good

00:26:27 ◼   ► what I had to reach deep for that mic but it was in there it was in there so

00:26:32 ◼   ► let's let's change gears a little bit two weeks ago yeah I'm leaving now alright

00:26:37 ◼   ► so you two got this without me? No, no, you're not leaving. I was waiting for this. I was

00:26:42 ◼   ► looking at the documents like, yes. The housekeeping is here. I have to go. That's not true. No,

00:26:47 ◼   ► there's no housekeeping. Just bring them on the podcast. Two weeks ago, you were getting

00:26:54 ◼   ► ready to travel, like we talked about, you're traveling this month, and you bought a 12-inch

00:27:00 ◼   ► MacBook, single little USB-C port. A while ago. I didn't buy that two weeks ago. We need

00:27:06 ◼   ► need to just clarify that it made it sound like I just bought that thing I

00:27:09 ◼   ► thought if you bought that months ago two weeks ago in preparation of your

00:27:14 ◼   ► travel I confronted you about this laptop saying that basically you bought

00:27:19 ◼   ► the wrong computer and you if I remember correctly you agreed with me 100% you

00:27:25 ◼   ► were very thankful for my loving advice listeners you can check the tape that's

00:27:30 ◼   ► definitely what happened now I agreed with your point I just did was a pause

00:27:34 ◼   ► From the heavens right? That was it. Hmm. Yeah

00:27:37 ◼   ► So what computers in front of you right now?

00:27:39 ◼   ► Marco Ammann smack book escape

00:27:42 ◼   ► Yes

00:27:45 ◼   ► So what happens after the show is the slack conversation begins, but that was started by Marco

00:27:52 ◼   ► I believe and I'm I'm almost confident that you two were talking about this beforehand

00:27:56 ◼   ► because what happened was like - I think two days probably two days of

00:28:03 ◼   ► cajoling

00:28:04 ◼   ► From these two to me telling me why I was making such bad decisions and how easy it would be

00:28:10 ◼   ► For me to get everything over

00:28:13 ◼   ► So Marco because Marco I think has bought 17 laptops and the loss. Yeah

00:28:19 ◼   ► he had a stack lying around and

00:28:22 ◼   ► One of them is a 13 inch MacBook Pro and it's it's pretty decked out. It's not the current one, right?

00:28:29 ◼   ► It's the one before it's the first the first lot 2016. Yeah, so I have a

00:28:34 ◼   ► 2.4 gigahertz Intel core i7 16 gigabytes of RAM and

00:28:38 ◼   ► like 500 gigabytes storage and

00:28:42 ◼   ► Yeah, I'm gonna say you were right you were right because if there ought to be a hashtag

00:28:48 ◼   ► It would be Steven is really mean hashtags. That's really Wow

00:28:52 ◼   ► Best hashtags great, right? I

00:28:56 ◼   ► Really backfired on me 100% agree with this because all right

00:29:01 ◼   ► So I'll say just because one of the big things to me was the weight thing, right?

00:29:04 ◼   ► I have not put this in my backpack yet

00:29:06 ◼   ► I put it I picked it up and I because I haven't got on a plane since this I've just been like

00:29:10 ◼   ► Traveling on trains and stuff. So I just threw it in my suitcase in the box, right?

00:29:14 ◼   ► So it's just in there my suitcase was already mega heavy

00:29:17 ◼   ► Anyway, because it's packed full of a month's worth of stuff and equipment including microphone stands which are effectively just weights

00:29:23 ◼   ► That's all they are. Yeah, my suitcase is already really heavy. I haven't put in my backpack. It will be in my back when I fly

00:29:29 ◼   ► but I'm willing to accept the weight because

00:29:31 ◼   ► After the first show I recorded and edited I was like, you know

00:29:36 ◼   ► This was the right choice because this thing honestly it feels a lot like speed wise and capability wise just like my iMac

00:29:42 ◼   ► Right, like I feel like I'm able to just process stuff really quickly good and I'm not waiting for things and I know I would

00:29:49 ◼   ► Have been with the MacBook and I'm just gonna say as well, right?

00:29:52 ◼   ► I have it plugged in right now and I have my USB recorder.

00:29:56 ◼   ► I've taken a trip to Donkleton.

00:29:58 ◼   ► There's a little dongle sitting here, but I have two ports.

00:30:01 ◼   ► And they're both plugged right in,

00:30:02 ◼   ► rather than having to use this little adapter thing.

00:30:04 ◼   ► This was the right choice.

00:30:07 ◼   ► I didn't want to buy a new computer for the price that it was,

00:30:12 ◼   ► and Marco gave me a good deal, so here I am with a computer.

00:30:16 ◼   ► I feel like it has really good lineage now, you know?

00:30:18 ◼   ► This is a good vintage machine.

00:30:21 ◼   ► I do feel like I should clarify the timeline a little bit. So Marc and I did not speak

00:30:28 ◼   ► about this before I talked to you on the show, nor did we speak before he started our Slack

00:30:34 ◼   ► conversation. However, this was the exact laptop that was in the back of my mind because

00:30:40 ◼   ► I knew that he had one that he wasn't using and that I figured would be for sale.

00:30:44 ◼   ► I got to say, I got to say, this sounds like an organized effort.

00:30:50 ◼   ► It sounds like a hit, right?

00:30:54 ◼   ► It sounds like someone saying "I'm not a liar" and they're in fact lying.

00:30:58 ◼   ► No, I'm not.

00:31:00 ◼   ► No, I just know Myke very well and I like to think I know Marco pretty well and I figure

00:31:06 ◼   ► Marco will hear this and want to help Myke out.

00:31:08 ◼   ► He'll understand the jam that Myke's in and you know he's got this computer to unload

00:31:12 ◼   ► so Marco makes some money, sells a laptop he doesn't need, Myke gets a laptop and I

00:31:17 ◼   ► get all the glory.

00:31:18 ◼   ► really worked out for everybody. This is the MacBook Mafia, Steven, over here. It really

00:31:22 ◼   ► is. Man, you are fishing for titles today. It's like an enterprise, man. I'm fishing

00:31:29 ◼   ► for titles. You're just thinking of computers to move around between families. It's just

00:31:35 ◼   ► what you're doing. I'm just helping people, man. I can't help. It's in my nature to

00:31:38 ◼   ► want to help my friends. Yeah, you better watch out, because you won't just be fishing

00:31:41 ◼   ► for titles, Federico. You'll be sleeping with the fishes if you carry on poking on

00:31:46 ◼   ► this guy. I will say as well, I got the true like TAM service with this. So like I was

00:31:54 ◼   ► at Marco's house before we went to the...

00:31:57 ◼   ► So what it's like buying, tell us what it's like buying a computer at the Marco store.

00:32:02 ◼   ► So I had a hard drive which had a time machine back up and he was just like give me the hard

00:32:09 ◼   ► drive and he took it and he like, and then about an hour later I was given a computer

00:32:14 ◼   ► ready to go. He did the whole thing for me. It was amazing. I got everything. He presented

00:32:18 ◼   ► all of the pieces to me individually. I even have the plastic that goes over the computer

00:32:22 ◼   ► that goes into the box. You get the whole deal. So, A++++ would buy again.

00:32:30 ◼   ► This is better than the Apple store.

00:32:35 ◼   ► I can't guarantee that you'll always get this experience if you buy computers from Marco,

00:32:39 ◼   ► but there's no doubt.

00:32:40 ◼   ► Well, I'm glad it worked out. I'm really pleased to hear that it is making a difference.

00:32:45 ◼   ► Even though it was done, it was done in actual concern, not just getting to make fun of you on

00:32:52 ◼   ► the show. So I'm glad, I'm glad it worked out. And I'm glad you're happy with it. So what are

00:32:56 ◼   ► you going to do with the 12 inch MacBook? I mean, is it going to be does this have a place in your

00:33:00 ◼   ► life? Or does this MacBook Pro push it out the door? I don't know. I don't know. I haven't made

00:33:04 ◼   ► my mind up yet. I don't want to keep two computers, like two laptops, just right up going and running

00:33:10 ◼   ► all the time so I think it's gonna have to find a new home. I just I just don't

00:33:16 ◼   ► want that is it it's already frustrating enough like every time I have to go on a

00:33:20 ◼   ► trip or whatever like just dealing with the administration of like making sure

00:33:23 ◼   ► the laptop is all up-to-date or I actually open it everything needs to

00:33:26 ◼   ► sync right like all of my messages need to come through one by one like it's a

00:33:30 ◼   ► whole big thing I don't want to have two computers lying around like it's just

00:33:35 ◼   ► not a thing so Italy if I go to somebody in my family that wants it I don't think

00:33:40 ◼   ► I can see people saying like, "Oh, what did Dina want?"

00:33:42 ◼   ► She has a MacBook Pro which she loves.

00:33:44 ◼   ► I can't imagine her wanting to change to this

00:33:46 ◼   ► because she doesn't think the MacBook Pro anywhere,

00:33:48 ◼   ► like it's just at home.

00:33:49 ◼   ► So I think she's not gonna wanna change it.

00:33:52 ◼   ► I'll ask her though if she wants it and she could have it.

00:33:54 ◼   ► Maybe I have another family member that might want it.

00:33:56 ◼   ► Otherwise, we'll look to sell it, I guess.

00:33:59 ◼   ► Even if, like I know I'm gonna miss the weight, right?

00:34:04 ◼   ► Like I'm gonna miss the lightness of that computer.

00:34:07 ◼   ► I don't wanna have two laptops.

00:34:09 ◼   ► Like, it's silly.

00:34:11 ◼   ► It's just silly.

00:34:11 ◼   ► Yeah, that's not really a solution.

00:34:13 ◼   ► It's not for me.

00:34:14 ◼   ► Both of you--

00:34:15 ◼   ► Right?

00:34:15 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:34:17 ◼   ► So I'm going to get rid of that somehow.

00:34:19 ◼   ► But I'll work that out when I get home.

00:34:21 ◼   ► I'll work that out when I get home.

00:34:22 ◼   ► Cool.

00:34:23 ◼   ► I'm glad it worked out.

00:34:24 ◼   ► So I'm also very curious.

00:34:25 ◼   ► I see you in just a few days.

00:34:27 ◼   ► And I'm very curious to see if this new MacBook

00:34:29 ◼   ► Pro has stickers on it by the time

00:34:31 ◼   ► you make it to Memphis in like 48 hours.

00:34:33 ◼   ► I don't think I have any here.

00:34:35 ◼   ► You don't have a reserve with you at all times?

00:34:37 ◼   ► No.

00:34:37 ◼   ► You know what?

00:34:37 ◼   ► I should have brought some because obviously I knew that this was going to happen, but

00:34:40 ◼   ► I didn't think to bring stickers.

00:34:42 ◼   ► Pre-stickered.

00:34:43 ◼   ► You have some stickers at the house, I'm sure, so I'll just take some of those.

00:34:47 ◼   ► I've got some.

00:34:48 ◼   ► Yeah, I've got some.

00:34:49 ◼   ► Well good, I'm glad it worked out.

00:34:52 ◼   ► So it's August, so that means August is Relay FM's anniversary, so is it next week's episode

00:35:00 ◼   ► or the week after when we and Steven will be together?

00:35:03 ◼   ► Is that next week?

00:35:04 ◼   ► It is next week, a week from today.

00:35:06 ◼   ► 3pm Eastern.

00:35:07 ◼   ► And that is anniversary week. And anniversary week kicks off our membership stuff. So we

00:35:14 ◼   ► do this every year where we have a bunch of really special things going on during the

00:35:19 ◼   ► month of August and stretching into September, which is for Relay FM members. So if you are

00:35:23 ◼   ► already a Relay FM member, great, you're going to get all of the amazing stuff. If you're

00:35:27 ◼   ► not, you should sign up. Membership start at $5 a month and Relay FM members get access

00:35:32 ◼   ► to a monthly behind the scenes newsletter, which Steven puts together every single month.

00:35:36 ◼   ► your hand cross it. We have previews of upcoming shows, so every now and then we have a pilot

00:35:41 ◼   ► or a show that's getting ready to launch and Relay FM members always find out about those

00:35:44 ◼   ► first. We also have a members only podcast which Stephen hosts once a month where he

00:35:49 ◼   ► interviews two existing Relay FM hosts about a big topic and they're these random wonderful

00:35:54 ◼   ► things where you're going to get two people come together to talk about something typically

00:35:58 ◼   ► they're usually not used to talking about so that's really fun. And also this is the

00:36:02 ◼   ► big thing for August, which is why we talk about it now. You get access to a feed which

00:36:06 ◼   ► is full of bonus episodes of Relay FM shows that occur throughout August and September.

00:36:11 ◼   ► Now these will start next week. I think Connected is first, right? On Monday?

00:36:15 ◼   ► I believe so, yeah.

00:36:16 ◼   ► So we recorded an episode where we spoke about our home screens. So we did this last year,

00:36:22 ◼   ► so we did it again. We all put together our iPhone home screens. And I think what I'll

00:36:26 ◼   ► I'll say is it is surprising that we are still here today based upon how that conversation

00:36:33 ◼   ► went. Um, there was, you're making it worse than it was. Come on. It was fine. I'm trying

00:36:38 ◼   ► to sell it to people here. I want them to think that there's like drama, right? We got,

00:36:42 ◼   ► we got to sell this. This is the hard sell. People, people like love. We were torn apart

00:36:48 ◼   ► at the center over the decisions that we all decided to make about our home screens. It

00:36:54 ◼   ► was

00:37:13 ◼   ► directly or if you want to support more shows or every single show on Relay FM go to relay.fm/membership

00:37:19 ◼   ► there's more information there and a bunch of buttons that you can click and you can

00:37:22 ◼   ► give us some money and we really appreciate it and we give you some bonuses in return

00:37:26 ◼   ► so if you are a member already thank you so much if you become a new member we really

00:37:31 ◼   ► appreciate it and there'll be more on its way to you soon so we've got lots and lots

00:37:35 ◼   ► of really fun bonus episodes planned for our members so thank you very much

00:37:39 ◼   ► Yeah, we do have one additional thing.

00:37:44 ◼   ► So we've done, we did this at launch and then we did it last year.

00:37:48 ◼   ► So it's not quite an annual tradition, but after this year it will be, I guess, where

00:37:52 ◼   ► you and I sit down for a Q&A during anniversary week.

00:37:56 ◼   ► Last year we did this, actually just listen to it like a month ago.

00:37:58 ◼   ► I was super sick this time last year of laryngitis, so it's basically just you talking for an

00:38:03 ◼   ► hour.

00:38:04 ◼   ► But this year we're going to do it when you're here.

00:38:08 ◼   ► We're going to do it as a video, so you and I are going to answer questions on camera.

00:38:11 ◼   ► We're going to put it, I think, on your YouTube channel, so it won't be as long as the hour-long

00:38:16 ◼   ► podcast was last year, but just to spice it up and do something different.

00:38:20 ◼   ► So if you have a question for us about Relay, about podcasting, about what MacBook Pro you

00:38:26 ◼   ► should buy, whatever, about life, love, what you should do at the beach for a month if

00:38:32 ◼   ► you're Federico.

00:38:33 ◼   ► We're probably just going to answer questions about Relay FM, though.

00:38:36 ◼   ► Like you can send in anything you want, but like, you know.

00:38:39 ◼   ► - I'm only gonna answer questions not about,

00:38:41 ◼   ► no I'm just kidding.

00:38:41 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:38:43 ◼   ► - You can submit questions on Twitter,

00:38:44 ◼   ► use the hashtag RelayQA,

00:38:47 ◼   ► and we will see them and be gathering them.

00:38:51 ◼   ► We're gonna record that in the early part of next week,

00:38:53 ◼   ► so get those in and we're looking forward

00:38:56 ◼   ► to answering your questions.

00:38:57 ◼   ► - Hashtag RelayQA.

00:38:59 ◼   ► - Birthday week's fun, you're here.

00:39:01 ◼   ► We get to do a bunch of fun stuff.

00:39:03 ◼   ► If you're in Memphis, we're gonna do a meet up

00:39:05 ◼   ► next Thursday night there's a Facebook event floating around.

00:39:09 ◼   ► So anyways, that's this month of Relay.

00:39:12 ◼   ► Lots of stuff.

00:39:13 ◼   ► Lots of cool stuff.

00:39:14 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:39:15 ◼   ► So thank you so much.

00:39:16 ◼   ► To everybody that helped support us, let's take a break.

00:39:18 ◼   ► We have, oh my gosh, there's so much more left to talk about today.

00:39:21 ◼   ► This is an action packed, action packed episode.

00:39:23 ◼   ► I want to talk to you about Balance.

00:39:25 ◼   ► Balance are the team behind Balance for Mac, which is an app that helps you monitor all

00:39:29 ◼   ► of your bank balances and card transactions.

00:39:32 ◼   ► This team have just launched Balance Open which is a free open source Mac application

00:39:38 ◼   ► for checking Coinbase.

00:39:39 ◼   ► Now Coinbase is a popular marketplace for cryptocurrencies such as stuff like Bitcoin

00:39:44 ◼   ► and Ethereum and Balance Open is the best open source digital wallet to help you keep

00:39:49 ◼   ► track of everything.

00:39:50 ◼   ► Now if you know what that means you should go and check it out right because you should

00:39:54 ◼   ► be like oh this sounds like a good thing I have tons of cryptocurrencies falling out

00:39:57 ◼   ► of my pockets I'm going to go and check out Balance Open.

00:39:59 ◼   ► If you have no idea what I'm talking about and you're completely new to cryptocurrencies,

00:40:04 ◼   ► that's okay because Balance want to help teach you about them and they're going to do that

00:40:09 ◼   ► by starting you on your way.

00:40:10 ◼   ► The first 1000 people that go to bal.money/relay will receive $2 in the Ethereum cryptocurrency

00:40:20 ◼   ► for free as a gift from Balance because they want to help you learn more about this stuff.

00:40:24 ◼   ► Go check it out today, find out more and try out Balance Open.

00:40:28 ◼   ► thanks to Balance for their support of this show. Never had a sponsor give away free money

00:40:32 ◼   ► before. I think that's really interesting. When they told me about that I was like, yeah,

00:40:38 ◼   ► okay, we'll do that. That sounds like fun. So go get yourself some free money, I guess.

00:40:43 ◼   ► All right, should we talk about new iPhones? Did you guys know that there's a new iPhone?

00:40:49 ◼   ► There's a new iPhone.

00:40:50 ◼   ► Interesting.

00:40:51 ◼   ► It's pretty cool, right?

00:40:52 ◼   ► I find it funny when every time I'm talking about the new iPhone every year, there's someone

00:40:59 ◼   ► among my friends or my family, usually my mother, she goes "Oh, they're making a new

00:41:04 ◼   ► one?"

00:41:05 ◼   ► They hadn't given up yet?

00:41:08 ◼   ► Yes, they are making a new one in fact.

00:41:12 ◼   ► And apparently this year it's gonna be a big one.

00:41:15 ◼   ► That's amazing.

00:41:19 ◼   ► So what do we have this time?

00:41:21 ◼   ► We have a bunch of stuff.

00:41:23 ◼   ► We're going to start with the design and then we're going to talk about maybe some of the

00:41:27 ◼   ► features and some of the stuff has been stuff we've spoken about but then some of it's new.

00:41:32 ◼   ► So MKBHD, everyone's favorite tech YouTuber, put a video up a couple nights ago of a model

00:41:40 ◼   ► that some people have made kind of putting all this together.

00:41:44 ◼   ► So it has the edge to edge screen, it has the little notch in the top for the camera

00:41:49 ◼   ► and the earpiece.

00:41:51 ◼   ► It's a great video, all of his videos are great, but the thing that really dived out

00:41:56 ◼   ► at me is that this model has white front glass and, boys, it is not good looking at all.

00:42:03 ◼   ► It is really, I think, at least really sort of jarring.

00:42:06 ◼   ► Well, this is exactly why I threw out a prediction that I thought there wouldn't be one, right?

00:42:11 ◼   ► There wouldn't be a white phone, because it doesn't look right.

00:42:16 ◼   ► The back looks fine, the front looks really strange, because there's barely any of it.

00:42:22 ◼   ► It's very weird.

00:42:23 ◼   ► And we're going to talk more about this, like, what are they doing with the chin and the

00:42:27 ◼   ► forehead, like what is that all going to be?

00:42:29 ◼   ► Like, we're going to talk about that a little bit later on.

00:42:32 ◼   ► But this is like, part of it is like, why would you have this OLED screen, this beautiful

00:42:37 ◼   ► black OLED screen, with this white little part sticking in the top?

00:42:41 ◼   ► It just looks really weird.

00:42:42 ◼   ► Yeah, it does look really weird.

00:42:44 ◼   ► So some other things on here, the phone looks really small compared to a Plus.

00:42:50 ◼   ► So the general idea here is that it's the screen size of the Plus, but basically in

00:42:56 ◼   ► a body the size of the regular phone.

00:42:58 ◼   ► And that's easy to say, but when I saw them side by side in his video, it really surprised

00:43:05 ◼   ► me.

00:43:06 ◼   ► And as someone who's used to a bigger phone, and I like the Plus, all three of us do, I'm

00:43:13 ◼   ► of looking forward to this because I can have the same screen size but in an

00:43:16 ◼   ► overall package it's smaller and I think that's a big win Samsung and others have

00:43:21 ◼   ► already gone down this road of course but I think it's gonna be really nice to

00:43:24 ◼   ► have a phone that's this size but also smaller kind of all at the same time

00:43:28 ◼   ► yeah it's gonna be so weird it's gonna be so weird like I wonder if it's gonna

00:43:32 ◼   ► feel small or if it's gonna feel big right like that's what I wonder about

00:43:36 ◼   ► like how is it gonna feel to actually hold it and that when you look at it

00:43:39 ◼   ► what is your how does your brain process it I think for us it's gonna feel small

00:43:43 ◼   ► You know, we've all carried the Plus now for like three years.

00:43:47 ◼   ► I think for Plus Club members it's going to feel like a smaller phone.

00:43:51 ◼   ► And that may take some getting used to, but I think for everyone else, it's going to feel right.

00:43:57 ◼   ► I think it depends on whether we're going to get the same amount of content shown on screen as the iPhone Plus,

00:44:06 ◼   ► or if we're gonna get like an iPhone 7 type of content area with like this function sort of

00:44:12 ◼   ► non

00:44:15 ◼   ► content area at the bottom. So like when I'm scrolling through my Tweetbot feed, am I seeing

00:44:21 ◼   ► you know the same number of tweets that I would see on the iPhone plus or am I gonna see two, you know, like

00:44:29 ◼   ► Five tweets instead of seven tweets and then like this empty row at the bottom with the home button and other shortcuts

00:44:36 ◼   ► so like I think the idea of having

00:44:38 ◼   ► the screen of a

00:44:41 ◼   ► Plus iPhone into the body of a non plus version. I think it's great

00:44:46 ◼   ► but he ultimately it comes down to how Apple deals with the

00:44:50 ◼   ► Function area situation if it's like if it's a percent persistent area or if it's like it's an overlay that can disappear

00:44:58 ◼   ► it's like it's contextual and it can show you content.

00:45:01 ◼   ► I think we've got to see what they do in that regard.

00:45:05 ◼   ► - But this model itself, right, the phone,

00:45:09 ◼   ► I think it looks amazing.

00:45:11 ◼   ► I think it really looks very cool.

00:45:14 ◼   ► Like the band that runs around the side,

00:45:16 ◼   ► stainless steel, right, is the thinking.

00:45:18 ◼   ► I think that looks fantastic.

00:45:21 ◼   ► Just looking at this model and it's like, wow, okay.

00:45:25 ◼   ► this is gonna feel like something pretty special, I think.

00:45:29 ◼   ► I'm excited about it.

00:45:30 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think it's gonna be a nice change.

00:45:33 ◼   ► You know, there's talk about the glass back,

00:45:36 ◼   ► and so you automatically think of the iPhone 4 and 4S,

00:45:40 ◼   ► and so I've actually have one.

00:45:42 ◼   ► I pulled my 4 out yesterday, kind of in prep for the show,

00:45:46 ◼   ► and like, it's nice because it is so,

00:45:49 ◼   ► like, the design of it's nice because it's symmetrical,

00:45:52 ◼   ► and I think it's very clean looking.

00:45:53 ◼   ► I still think that's a better looking phone that we have now.

00:45:56 ◼   ► And it seems like a move back to that a little bit.

00:45:59 ◼   ► Obviously, in something much thinner,

00:46:01 ◼   ► and probably something still with rounded edges,

00:46:02 ◼   ► as opposed to the squared off look,

00:46:04 ◼   ► I think it kind of will blend the current design and that

00:46:07 ◼   ► 4, 4S design in a way that's really pretty special.

00:46:11 ◼   ► And I think something great.

00:46:13 ◼   ► I said this, I think, last week.

00:46:15 ◼   ► The more we learn about this phone,

00:46:16 ◼   ► the more excited I am about it.

00:46:18 ◼   ► It's not a, oh no, the surprise has been ruined.

00:46:21 ◼   ► Pardon me, yes.

00:46:22 ◼   ► Feels that way.

00:46:23 ◼   ► But overall, I'm like, come on September.

00:46:25 ◼   ► Let's do this.

00:46:25 ◼   ► I can't wait to get my hands on one of these.

00:46:28 ◼   ► So there's some rumors and images about the colors.

00:46:34 ◼   ► It looks like from some leaked images,

00:46:36 ◼   ► there will be three colors for the next iPhone.

00:46:38 ◼   ► White, black, which is probably jet black.

00:46:42 ◼   ► It looks pretty shiny in the images.

00:46:45 ◼   ► Well, if it's glass, it's going to--

00:46:48 ◼   ► it seems like it's got to be jet black or something

00:46:51 ◼   ► close to it because the glass is going to make it shiny.

00:46:54 ◼   ► And then also champagne gold, which looks kind of copper-like. It's almost like if you

00:46:59 ◼   ► took...

00:47:00 ◼   ► It looks kind of brown, basically.

00:47:02 ◼   ► Yeah, I feel like if you took rose gold and gold and kind of mixed them together, it would

00:47:07 ◼   ► probably come out close to this, right? Like it feels like it's this mix between the two

00:47:11 ◼   ► of them.

00:47:12 ◼   ► It's the Zune phone.

00:47:13 ◼   ► I mean, do you know what? I actually think it looks kind of cool, right? Like I think

00:47:17 ◼   ► it's an interesting color.

00:47:19 ◼   ► Depending on how the front looked,

00:47:22 ◼   ► dependent on whether I'd want it,

00:47:24 ◼   ► like I really want a black front,

00:47:25 ◼   ► like if it looks exactly as it's being shown off right now,

00:47:29 ◼   ► I think the black model is gonna look the best

00:47:32 ◼   ► with the screen, right?

00:47:34 ◼   ► But I think it's an interesting color choice.

00:47:37 ◼   ► But again, like I just remain completely surprised

00:47:41 ◼   ► about the idea of a white front on these things.

00:47:43 ◼   ► That just seems so strange to me.

00:47:47 ◼   ► There's also wireless charging stuff.

00:47:49 ◼   ► So there was a leak from Foxconn,

00:47:51 ◼   ► which shows something called an engineering validation

00:47:54 ◼   ► test of a product code named Ferrari, which is understood

00:47:57 ◼   ► to be a code name of this iPhone, which

00:48:00 ◼   ► shows a large wireless charging coil within the product.

00:48:04 ◼   ► So this, I guess, would suggest wireless charging,

00:48:08 ◼   ► with the glass back being able to assist that.

00:48:11 ◼   ► Yeah, so this is very similar to the leak

00:48:14 ◼   ► we had of the Apple Watch two days before it was announced.

00:48:16 ◼   ► sort of late stage testing. Also it's on Windows XP, which is hilarious to see if

00:48:23 ◼   ► you haven't seen Windows XP in a long time. But the wireless charging would

00:48:28 ◼   ► require the glass back so it can help explain that move. And if these photos

00:48:34 ◼   ► are real then this is what's happening. I mean you don't get to to this level of

00:48:39 ◼   ► testing in China if this isn't the plan. So the conversation is also about like

00:48:45 ◼   ► what what does this look like? So Gruber for weeks and weeks has been saying I

00:48:49 ◼   ► think the tipster even the ATP tipster even today on Twitter said, yes, but it's

00:48:54 ◼   ► going to be an add on. So the the wireless charging, you know, what the pad

00:49:01 ◼   ► or whatever the other side of it is, would be an additional purchase, which

00:49:05 ◼   ► is okay, like I kind of get that. But the the idea here, I guess, or the thing I

00:49:14 ◼   ► I want to talk about is this post that Casey wrote, Casey Liss. He's on vacation and so

00:49:18 ◼   ► the, the URL is "I always think dumb stuff like this but I'm on vacation so YOLO I guess."

00:49:24 ◼   ► Which is really good because his argument is dumb. Like that this phone would be the

00:49:28 ◼   ► first phone with no ports. Like if this thing comes without a lightning port and no ports

00:49:35 ◼   ► then like I don't, I don't know. Like when you make a crazy bet that can't come true.

00:49:38 ◼   ► I would say like I read this and the argument isn't bad but it's too soon is the way it

00:49:43 ◼   ► Like everything that he poses about the potential for why this could be a phone that doesn't

00:49:50 ◼   ► have any ports on it.

00:49:51 ◼   ► So like wireless charging, wireless debugging, EX code, water-resistance, the fact that the

00:49:56 ◼   ► 7 dropped the headphone jack, there's AirPods, like all of that stuff I think leads to the

00:50:01 ◼   ► argument, but it's too soon.

00:50:03 ◼   ► I think we're a couple of revisions away.

00:50:05 ◼   ► I believe that one day there will be an iPhone with no holes in it, right?

00:50:10 ◼   ► Because why not?

00:50:12 ◼   ► you're introducing all this technology, you may as well go the whole way. But I think

00:50:16 ◼   ► he got that, I think his conclusion isn't on the money this time that it would be this

00:50:22 ◼   ► fun. I think we're a couple of revisions away, but I think it will happen.

00:50:25 ◼   ► Yeah, that's fair. But if you're going to write a post of a URL

00:50:31 ◼   ► like that, I'll support it. I love it. It's in the document, it's so funny. But the thing

00:50:37 ◼   ► is though, I do this too. Like what cases down here, and I'm sure we all do, I have

00:50:41 ◼   ► these ideas in the shower, I'm like, "I've cracked it!" And then I think about it a little

00:50:44 ◼   ► more later, and I'm like, "No, that doesn't make any sense."

00:50:47 ◼   ► One of these thoughts is actually what I want to talk about now, which is the virtual home

00:50:52 ◼   ► button, because I've been spending some time thinking about the virtual home button after

00:50:55 ◼   ► listening to you two talk about it last week, right? The idea of there being, as Federico

00:51:00 ◼   ► was talking about a minute ago, like this function row, this area of the screen, which

00:51:04 ◼   ► is unused by applications, and it has a circle, that's the home button, and maybe some other

00:51:10 ◼   ► stuff on it. I just wanted to like just talk about the kind of pointlessness of that with

00:51:17 ◼   ► the information that we have at hand. So we don't know the whole picture, right? But let's

00:51:22 ◼   ► just assume that everything that people were talking about like those posts that Alan Pike

00:51:26 ◼   ► did that you spoke about, all of the tweets that Steve Trouton Smith has been doing where

00:51:29 ◼   ► he's trying to see what he thinks it looks like. You know, everyone is drawing these

00:51:33 ◼   ► conclusions of that, that there'll be this bottom of the phone which apps can't use,

00:51:38 ◼   ► right, and that there is some system stuff in there. This feels like a waste. It feels like

00:51:43 ◼   ► this is wasting everything. Like, it wastes touch ID because we may as well keep the button

00:51:50 ◼   ► if it's part of the screen we can't use. We may as well keep the whole physical thing.

00:51:54 ◼   ► It loses the idea of touch ID as a thing, right? Like, we lose that if the phone goes,

00:52:01 ◼   ► we all scream with this face detection thing. And it also wastes putting the bigger screen. Like,

00:52:06 ◼   ► Why make an edge-to-edge screen if part of it can't be used?

00:52:10 ◼   ► I feel like there must be more than what is being proposed.

00:52:15 ◼   ► But the idea of there being this black part of the bottom of a screen that has a circle

00:52:20 ◼   ► in it that's a home button, it feels like such a waste, right?

00:52:25 ◼   ► Why would you make this screen much bigger if all you're going to do is block off part

00:52:29 ◼   ► of it that nobody can ever use?

00:52:31 ◼   ► So I've been trying to think, what additional features could go there?

00:52:34 ◼   ► Now I don't know completely what they would be, but let's just assume that this is completely

00:52:40 ◼   ► unused and underused by the system. I thought that maybe one of these things could be a

00:52:45 ◼   ► multitasking button. I was watching a Lyft driver use her Android phone and she wanted

00:52:51 ◼   ► to switch apps so she pressed a button, right, which is persistent on the screen of Android

00:52:56 ◼   ► phones to go into multitasking. And I was thinking that that could be a thing because

00:53:03 ◼   ► multitasking now would be double tapping an area of the screen

00:53:06 ◼   ► right because that would be the home button

00:53:09 ◼   ► and that feels weird to me right like to double tap this area of the screen

00:53:14 ◼   ► and also in iOS 11 the 3d touch action

00:53:17 ◼   ► is gone where you squeeze on the side yeah so if

00:53:21 ◼   ► yeah if this is just this completely unusable part of the screen which I

00:53:25 ◼   ► I hope it isn't I hope there's a way to do more of it I was thinking that maybe

00:53:29 ◼   ► they could put a button to activate multitasking in there yeah

00:53:32 ◼   ► I've been thinking about the introduction of the iPhone when Steve Jobs was talking

00:53:39 ◼   ► about the physical keyboards on smartphones at the time. And he mentioned, and I'm paraphrasing

00:53:44 ◼   ► here, but he mentioned that one of the problems with physical keyboards is that once you ship

00:53:48 ◼   ► them, you can never update them with software because you shipped a bunch of physical buttons

00:53:53 ◼   ► that cannot be ever changed unless you buy a new phone. And so I'm thinking if Apple

00:53:57 ◼   ► is doing a virtual home button with this virtual function area at the bottom, why replicate

00:54:05 ◼   ► the physical bezel of the iPhone with the home button when you can do so much more?

00:54:10 ◼   ► Because it's a screen, it can become anything you want.

00:54:13 ◼   ► And so it would be a loss, I think, not just for users, but for Apple to imagine, you know,

00:54:21 ◼   ► how can we go beyond this bezel that we have, this basically this glass that we don't use

00:54:27 ◼   ► at all. Now we have a chance to put any control we want in there. And so it would be not just

00:54:32 ◼   ► a loss for us, but a loss for Apple to not imagine something like this. So I want to

00:54:37 ◼   ► be positive and I want to be optimistic. And I think Apple is doing something like this.

00:54:41 ◼   ► And there are so many ideas. Obviously the multitasking one, I think it's a great idea,

00:54:45 ◼   ► Myke. But arguably, if you think about it, right now the home button already is kind

00:54:52 ◼   ► software because it's not a physical, it doesn't physically move anymore and uses the Taptic Engine.

00:54:58 ◼   ► And so I think we should go a step beyond. And so the Home button could maybe transform into multiple shapes.

00:55:05 ◼   ► So like when you look at Siri, for example, in iOS 11, it kind of looks like a Home button, like the Siri icon.

00:55:12 ◼   ► So I would assume when you press down, the Home button would physically trans, like virtually transform under your finger.

00:55:18 ◼   ► your finger, you would see the Siri graphic.

00:55:20 ◼   ► And maybe, I don't know, but depending on context,

00:55:23 ◼   ► it could become a Siri indicator,

00:55:25 ◼   ► or it could become an Apple Pay icon.

00:55:27 ◼   ► Or maybe, you know, when you're on the home screen,

00:55:29 ◼   ► it could be something else to, you know,

00:55:31 ◼   ► to open Spotlight or to, you know,

00:55:34 ◼   ► to navigate between pages.

00:55:35 ◼   ► It could support gestures, for example,

00:55:38 ◼   ► to switch between apps or to open multitasking.

00:55:41 ◼   ► And we're not even thinking about the idea of 3D Touch,

00:55:44 ◼   ► because it's a screen after all.

00:55:45 ◼   ► So if there's 3D touch support in the function area,

00:55:49 ◼   ► you could enable even more shortcuts

00:55:51 ◼   ► by pressing either the home button

00:55:54 ◼   ► or some of these other controls.

00:55:56 ◼   ► There are so many possibilities.

00:55:57 ◼   ► And I think, you know, Siri, home button, multitasking

00:56:01 ◼   ► and spotlight could be pretty safe bets,

00:56:05 ◼   ► especially now that it's even harder

00:56:07 ◼   ► to open spotlight on iOS 11 and to open widgets on iOS 11.

00:56:12 ◼   ► I think there's room for those kinds of controls.

00:56:15 ◼   ► So I've been thinking also about how do you deal with the status bar, you know?

00:56:20 ◼   ► Like if Apple is truly sort of embracing this notch at the top of the iPhone with the split

00:56:27 ◼   ► status bar, does the function area get some of those controls that would normally go at

00:56:33 ◼   ► the top, or do those stay at the top and we get different stuff at the bottom?

00:56:39 ◼   ► It's interesting to think about, like, how do we change the gestures that we use?

00:56:44 ◼   ► Can we still tap the status bar to scroll to the top of a list for example?

00:56:48 ◼   ► Or do we have to tap on some indicator in the function area?

00:56:52 ◼   ► And usually I think I try to apply the model of usually the simplest explanation wins.

00:57:03 ◼   ► And that is the status bar is gonna be split.

00:57:06 ◼   ► We're gonna be able to tap near the notch or in the two ears on the two sides of the

00:57:12 ◼   ► iPhone.

00:57:13 ◼   ► We can swipe down from the notch to open notifications and we're gonna get some controls in the function

00:57:19 ◼   ► area.

00:57:20 ◼   ► I also think judging from the HomePod leak and some of the other APIs in iOS 11, some

00:57:27 ◼   ► apps will be able to request full screen entitlement to the system, so like photos or videos or

00:57:33 ◼   ► maybe YouTube could say, "Hey, I wanna display content in full screen."

00:57:37 ◼   ► So hide the Home button and the function area right now and when you tap the screen, it

00:57:43 ◼   ► will be shown as an overlay. So in full screen you watch a video, there's no home button.

00:57:48 ◼   ► You tap the screen, you view the playback controls, you also view the home button again.

00:57:53 ◼   ► And maybe there's going to be like a minimized mode to only show the home button, but not

00:57:59 ◼   ► the full set of controls in the function area. And also there's the question of what happens

00:58:04 ◼   ► when you switch to landscape? How do those controls sort of reorient themselves? So it

00:58:10 ◼   ► It feels like it's a crazy territory right now because there are so many possible ideas.

00:58:16 ◼   ► It's basically we have an entire new screen into the screen and only Apple knows what

00:58:22 ◼   ► they're doing with it and we're only left here speculating and thinking of ideas in

00:58:26 ◼   ► the shower.

00:58:27 ◼   ► So, you know, I'm really excited about this.

00:58:30 ◼   ► I think it's going to be, you know, not even… people are saying it's like a touch bar.

00:58:36 ◼   ► I think it's going to be so much better than a touch bar because if my instanton is correct,

00:58:43 ◼   ► we're going to get all the most essential controls and shortcuts in there, not like

00:58:48 ◼   ► additions like the touch bar is, but like the stuff that we use every day, multitasking,

00:58:53 ◼   ► search, open button, all in there.

00:58:55 ◼   ► And that's exciting.

00:58:56 ◼   ► Yeah, so I just want to see it be used well, right?

00:58:59 ◼   ► Like a lot of that stuff is it.

00:59:00 ◼   ► I just what I'm what I don't want is just it's just the bottom of the phone right like that's boring

00:59:07 ◼   ► Yeah, and we can look I'm gonna be that guy we can look to see what Samsung has done here because the vs8

00:59:15 ◼   ► Has a touch sensitive, you know, it's screen all the way to the edge and there's a excuse me a pressure sensitive

00:59:21 ◼   ► home button

00:59:23 ◼   ► So it's you know, you're down there at the bottom

00:59:25 ◼   ► you force touch or 3D press, whatever the verb is, to activate that.

00:59:30 ◼   ► And they have multitasking and stuff like every other Android phone has ever had.

00:59:33 ◼   ► But they sort of have layered in pressure to make the bottom of the phone

00:59:38 ◼   ► act differently in different situations.

00:59:41 ◼   ► And I think that whatever they end up doing here, and I'll go with you Federico,

00:59:45 ◼   ► there's lots of possibilities. I think the simplest one is always the best way to go.

00:59:50 ◼   ► I've got to think that 3D touch is going to make a huge impact here.

00:59:55 ◼   ► They're going to rely on that to mode switch or have different things available at the

01:00:00 ◼   ► bottom.

01:00:01 ◼   ► And so I think the way Samsung has done it and the way they solved it, it may not be

01:00:04 ◼   ► perfect.

01:00:05 ◼   ► I actually haven't used an S8 for any extended period of time, but I think Apple would follow

01:00:09 ◼   ► it down the same direction of using pressure sensitivity to solve some of these problems.

01:00:14 ◼   ► Maybe considering how we got personalization in Control Center in iOS 11, I could envision

01:00:20 ◼   ► like a menu that says customize the controls that you get in there.

01:00:25 ◼   ► Do you want to get search or do you want to get multitasking?

01:00:28 ◼   ► It's like it's your choice because it seems like this seal has been broken in terms of

01:00:34 ◼   ► customizing the system controls.

01:00:35 ◼   ► Now we have a precedent and it's coming with iOS 11 so it wouldn't be out of character.

01:00:39 ◼   ► You know there's a home button menu in the settings right now.

01:00:42 ◼   ► It wouldn't be weird I think to have like a function area or something.

01:00:46 ◼   ► We don't even know what the name is.

01:00:47 ◼   ► I think function area is ugly.

01:00:50 ◼   ► So whatever the name is, shortcuts bar or something, we're going to get, I think it

01:00:55 ◼   ► wouldn't be too crazy to see some customization available.

01:01:01 ◼   ► Last thing before we move off this, I just want to talk about this HomePod thing again,

01:01:04 ◼   ► because maybe I don't understand enough of this stuff, but I'm just thinking, whilst

01:01:10 ◼   ► there is so much information coming out from this, is it worth creating it like it's a

01:01:15 ◼   ► Holy Grail, like every piece of information is contained inside of here?

01:01:19 ◼   ► Like could there be APIs that relate to things with this new screen size that we just haven't

01:01:26 ◼   ► seen yet that are meant for the phone?

01:01:29 ◼   ► That like we just don't see?

01:01:31 ◼   ► Sure, I think so.

01:01:35 ◼   ► I mean especially when it comes to the hardware stuff specific to the new iPhone and I don't

01:01:44 ◼   ► know because this is like a full version of iOS as a HomePod

01:01:49 ◼   ► software update.

01:01:50 ◼   ► But I think it's possible that some of the APIs

01:01:54 ◼   ► are not included in there.

01:01:56 ◼   ► I think it's unlikely because it feels like the major stuff we've

01:02:01 ◼   ► already seen.

01:02:02 ◼   ► But maybe we're wrong.

01:02:03 ◼   ► Maybe we don't know.

01:02:04 ◼   ► And maybe there's like an API for third party

01:02:08 ◼   ► functional integration is coming.

01:02:11 ◼   ► And it's not advertising this leak.

01:02:13 ◼   ► Because I was wondering, what if most of what we've seen

01:02:17 ◼   ► is akin to some kind of compatibility mode

01:02:19 ◼   ► or something, like how apps run without taking

01:02:23 ◼   ► advantage of this stuff because these APIs just

01:02:26 ◼   ► weren't included?

01:02:28 ◼   ► Yeah, I don't know enough of how these things are built.

01:02:31 ◼   ► Me either.

01:02:31 ◼   ► I was hoping you would be able to tell me

01:02:33 ◼   ► if I was right or wrong.

01:02:34 ◼   ► No.

01:02:34 ◼   ► [LAUGHTER]

01:02:36 ◼   ► But I just think it's possible.

01:02:38 ◼   ► It's possible.

01:02:40 ◼   ► It's possible, but I guess it also depends on if you test

01:02:43 ◼   ► compatibility mode how why wouldn't you include the other bits of code like maybe

01:02:49 ◼   ► they weren't ready but maybe it just wasn't because you know this isn't meant

01:02:53 ◼   ► to be this full thing like you know you guys were talking last week about like

01:02:57 ◼   ► things change and they might not have included everything like we don't

01:03:00 ◼   ► hundred-percent know what it is we've got access to I guess like how far along

01:03:04 ◼   ► it is in any of the tracks right like nobody I can assume truly would know

01:03:08 ◼   ► that information.

01:03:09 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

01:03:10 ◼   ► Yeah, and there's always going to be...

01:03:12 ◼   ► I mean, you can look at all this stuff and look at all the evidence, but we don't have

01:03:16 ◼   ► like the full story of it, right?

01:03:19 ◼   ► That's really hard to separate from features with Apple, the way they frame them and the

01:03:23 ◼   ► way they explain them during the keynote and then afterwards through marketing.

01:03:28 ◼   ► All that's missing from this too, right?

01:03:30 ◼   ► So all we know or seem to know is that this is what the new phone looks like roughly,

01:03:36 ◼   ► we don't really know, to our points a couple of minutes ago,

01:03:39 ◼   ► but what is the bottom area going to be like?

01:03:41 ◼   ► What are they going to do with the top?

01:03:42 ◼   ► Why are they doing all of this?

01:03:44 ◼   ► What happens to developers who don't update their apps?

01:03:46 ◼   ► What do developers get if they do update their apps?

01:03:48 ◼   ► All of that stuff is still unknown.

01:03:50 ◼   ► That can't be revealed in firmware.

01:03:52 ◼   ► Hopefully we haven't been

01:03:57 ◼   ► guilty of holding this up saying this has all the answers

01:04:02 ◼   ► because it doesn't.

01:04:03 ◼   ► It has lots of answers,

01:04:04 ◼   ► but it also raises way more questions than we had before this, right?

01:04:08 ◼   ► And so it's super interesting.

01:04:10 ◼   ► I think it's historic in the sense that we haven't seen an error or a leak, whatever

01:04:15 ◼   ► you want to call it, from Apple like this in a really long time.

01:04:18 ◼   ► And I bet it's a really long time before we see it again.

01:04:20 ◼   ► I would imagine there's been some policy change about how things happen now.

01:04:24 ◼   ► I would hope.

01:04:25 ◼   ► But it's just a very fascinating thing.

01:04:29 ◼   ► And you know, if the new phone will look like this and we'll get the full story in a couple

01:04:34 ◼   ► of weeks, but until then it's, I have to say like July and August are generally quiet

01:04:39 ◼   ► times for us as far as like content and things to talk about in the summer, like it's just

01:04:44 ◼   ► quiet in tech.

01:04:45 ◼   ► That's not been the case for 2017.

01:04:46 ◼   ► Like weeks and weeks of shows.

01:04:47 ◼   ► I would like to personally thank whoever it was that did this.

01:04:50 ◼   ► I know you're going for a real tough time and I apologize that your life has maybe taken

01:04:56 ◼   ► turn that you wish they hadn't, but from... I would like to just thank you because you've

01:05:01 ◼   ► made my job really easy for the last few weeks. Terrible. I'm trying to be nice, you know,

01:05:06 ◼   ► I feel for this person, I make mistakes all the time, but fortunately for me I guess they

01:05:10 ◼   ► don't... Well I'm sure I make mistakes akin to this, right? Like just putting somewhere

01:05:16 ◼   ► where it's not supposed to go, but the ramifications aren't the same. Just gonna make a note there.

01:05:21 ◼   ► Check all of Myke's folders. Check relay security. Usually I just put the laundry in the wrong

01:05:26 ◼   ► drawer not the wrong firmware in the wrong directory but that's basically the same mic.

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01:06:52 ◼   ► So yesterday iOS 11 beta 5 came out, with it came some new features, some late break-in

01:07:01 ◼   ► reversals of features, some stuff that we've spoken about on this show over the last few

01:07:06 ◼   ► weeks. I guess the first one is that messages in iCloud has been removed, right Federico?

01:07:11 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:07:12 ◼   ► What does this mean?

01:07:13 ◼   ► It means that WWDC Apple announced a feature to store your entire iMessage thread history

01:07:22 ◼   ► in iCloud, and to sync that between devices, and to also sync deletion status of, like,

01:07:28 ◼   ► you delete a message on your iPhone, it's also deleted on your iPad and your Mac.

01:07:33 ◼   ► And the feature was working well for me, but after checking in on Twitter and talking to

01:07:38 ◼   ► to a few people it seems like it was very problematic for others. Whether it was using

01:07:45 ◼   ► a ton of storage, or like we're talking hundreds of gigabytes of storage to sync entire threads

01:07:51 ◼   ► that go back like multiple years, because if you flip on the switch on a Mac that has

01:07:55 ◼   ► been running messages for three years, now you get three years of attachments and logs

01:08:00 ◼   ► on iCloud. So it seems like Apple needed more time to get this feature ready. And I think

01:08:08 ◼   ► according to the release notes in beta 5, it's not coming with iOS 11.0, it's coming

01:08:13 ◼   ► in a later update to iOS 11. And usually when Apple posts these notices, I remember a couple

01:08:20 ◼   ► of years ago there was a search feature for Spotlight that didn't ship with iOS 9 and

01:08:27 ◼   ► eventually came out in iOS 10 as differential privacy. So usually when Apple does these

01:08:32 ◼   ► delays it's not unusual that they come out a year later as a full feature like

01:08:40 ◼   ► presented differently so I wouldn't be surprised if messages in iCloud become

01:08:45 ◼   ► something else next year or maybe this time is different and maybe this time

01:08:48 ◼   ► it's actually coming with iOS 7.1 or 0.2 I just don't have a lot of faith so

01:08:54 ◼   ► that's too bad because it was useful it was working well for me but you know

01:08:58 ◼   ► it's that kind of feature that is so essential you know when you ask people

01:09:01 ◼   ► to flip a switch for iMessage and upload their entire history to iCloud, the system better

01:09:08 ◼   ► be working well, otherwise don't do it at all.

01:09:14 ◼   ► I'm more hopeful than that that it will show up.

01:09:17 ◼   ► My thought was when I saw this news that either they came across something they've got to

01:09:22 ◼   ► fix and they need more time, or that something with the ramp up to this, whatever the initial

01:09:31 ◼   ► And it's like, I signed up for iOS 11.

01:09:34 ◼   ► This checkbox gets checked by default.

01:09:37 ◼   ► What does that mean in the background?

01:09:38 ◼   ► What does iCloud have to do?

01:09:40 ◼   ► What sort of data is required on Apple's end?

01:09:43 ◼   ► That something in there maybe needs more time that maybe they started load testing it and

01:09:48 ◼   ► it developed a problem.

01:09:50 ◼   ► Who knows?

01:09:51 ◼   ► I will never know.

01:09:52 ◼   ► But I agree with you.

01:09:53 ◼   ► The feature seemed really interesting.

01:09:54 ◼   ► It seemed, you know, for me, like, you know, like Myke, I have a MacBook Pro.

01:09:59 ◼   ► They don't use every day and anytime I open it, it just takes forever to sync the stuff

01:10:06 ◼   ► and to make that better, I welcome.

01:10:10 ◼   ► But it's got to be done right.

01:10:11 ◼   ► They can't get that wrong.

01:10:12 ◼   ► And so I'd rather them delay than have a failure.

01:10:18 ◼   ► Messages are really important to people.

01:10:19 ◼   ► iMessage is an incredibly important service for Apple.

01:10:23 ◼   ► And if they blow it, then that becomes what everyone remembers about iOS 11 and they don't

01:10:27 ◼   ► want that.

01:10:28 ◼   ► it in a point of date, make sure it's good, totally cool with me.

01:10:33 ◼   ► Now we have spent a ton of time talking about the blue bar, the location bar, right? I think

01:10:39 ◼   ► on the whole we were all pretty upset about the persistent blue location bar, it seemed

01:10:43 ◼   ► like a bad decision. It seems like Apple agrees that it's a bad decision, so they've completely

01:10:51 ◼   ► changed the way this works really late, right? Beta 5 is pretty late to be making a sweeping

01:10:57 ◼   ► change like this, I don't fully understand what's going on here Federico, so I'm hoping

01:11:03 ◼   ► that you can help me.

01:11:05 ◼   ► This is a quick "teachy reteaches" I guess.

01:11:09 ◼   ► We're going back to school!

01:11:11 ◼   ► We're going back to school boys!

01:11:14 ◼   ► Back to school season!

01:11:16 ◼   ► Alright have a seat and listen up.

01:11:18 ◼   ► So here's what's changed.

01:11:21 ◼   ► So remember I told you that there were two types of location access.

01:11:27 ◼   ► When in use and always.

01:11:29 ◼   ► When in use means you're actually using the app right now, always means the app is requesting

01:11:35 ◼   ► your location in the background.

01:11:36 ◼   ► In the first few betas of iOS 11 until beta 4, if you had an app that was using the always

01:11:44 ◼   ► of location access in the background, like Google Maps Timeline or Moves or Swarm, you

01:11:52 ◼   ► were seeing constantly the blue bar.

01:11:56 ◼   ► Because Apple was thinking, you know, there's an app using your location in the background,

01:12:01 ◼   ► you want to see the blue bar.

01:12:03 ◼   ► Now in Beta 5, they have completely changed cores.

01:12:08 ◼   ► Now the blue bar is an option that developers can request if they want it.

01:12:14 ◼   ► So by default, if you have an app like Google Maps or Facebook Moves or whatever that is

01:12:21 ◼   ► using your location in the background, now you only see the location arrow icon in the

01:12:28 ◼   ► status bar.

01:12:29 ◼   ► In iOS 11, the location arrow is hollow when there's an app that is requesting your location,

01:12:36 ◼   ► and it's a filled icon, it's a filled-in arrow when your location is actively being transmitted

01:12:43 ◼   ► to the app. But that's all you see. And if the developer wants it, it can also show the

01:12:48 ◼   ► blue bar as a shortcut that you can tap to go back to the app. So basically, before the

01:12:55 ◼   ► blue bar was being enforced on every single app that was using the location in the background,

01:13:01 ◼   ► now it's not enforced anymore and it's something that developers can ask for if they want it,

01:13:07 ◼   ► if they think it's useful.

01:13:08 ◼   ► And I should also specify that the apps that use

01:13:15 ◼   ► the When In Use access, so apps that you're using right now

01:13:20 ◼   ► to access your location, those apps can also be

01:13:24 ◼   ► backgrounded, but it means they're still running,

01:13:28 ◼   ► so they're not being suspended by the system.

01:13:30 ◼   ► So like when you start up the, you know, the,

01:13:34 ◼   ► I think of the excellent skiing app Slopes.

01:13:38 ◼   ► For example, when you open it, when you start a workout

01:13:41 ◼   ► and you close the app, you see the blue bar

01:13:44 ◼   ► because that's an app that you're using right now

01:13:49 ◼   ► that is still running in the system

01:13:51 ◼   ► and that can also show the blue bar.

01:13:53 ◼   ► But that's a different topic.

01:13:55 ◼   ► What Apple changed is the whole deal

01:13:57 ◼   ► with the background location access.

01:13:59 ◼   ► We were talking about, oh, Apple is now shaming apps

01:14:02 ◼   ► are using your location in the background and it seems like enough people complained

01:14:06 ◼   ► and enough people found that confusing or maybe big companies complained that Apple

01:14:11 ◼   ► changed course completely and now the blue bar is something that you should want if necessary.

01:14:19 ◼   ► It's not enforced by default anymore. I don't know what to think. Maybe, you know, I've

01:14:27 ◼   ► come to, I mean besides the fact that I wasted like an entire day writing up this chapter,

01:14:33 ◼   ► which is now useless, so imagine how hypey I am. But besides that, maybe, maybe we were

01:14:38 ◼   ► wrong and maybe Apple didn't want to shame apps at all, like maybe Apple was thinking,

01:14:44 ◼   ► "Hey, this is useful for everyone." Like, it wasn't supposed to shame apps, it was only

01:14:52 ◼   ► supposed to be useful and that kind of backfired, so Apple found another way to be useful, which

01:14:57 ◼   ► is make it an API that developers can ask for optionally.

01:15:01 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:15:02 ◼   ► It just seems so strange.

01:15:03 ◼   ► It doesn't make any sense to me because who would ask for that?

01:15:06 ◼   ► Like there's no logic.

01:15:07 ◼   ► So I've also been thinking about this.

01:15:08 ◼   ► I've also been thinking about this and an idea could be, and this is, I realise, a pretty

01:15:14 ◼   ► narrow use case.

01:15:15 ◼   ► You're going for a stretch here, aren't you?

01:15:17 ◼   ► I can feel it.

01:15:18 ◼   ► I'm going for whatever I can find, man.

01:15:21 ◼   ► It's like, maybe you have an exercise workout type of app

01:15:28 ◼   ► that you want to quickly get back into while you're running

01:15:34 ◼   ► or doing something else.

01:15:36 ◼   ► And maybe the developer says, I actually want the blue bar,

01:15:40 ◼   ► because I want to enable users to open the workout

01:15:43 ◼   ► screen quickly.

01:15:45 ◼   ► That is actually a pretty good use case.

01:15:47 ◼   ► But I feel like you are finding that, as opposed

01:15:49 ◼   ► to it being the intention.

01:15:51 ◼   ► Do you know what I mean?

01:15:52 ◼   ► You have put the thought in to be like,

01:15:54 ◼   ► oh, okay, this is a good application for that.

01:15:56 ◼   ► I don't believe that this was the intention

01:15:59 ◼   ► when they put it into iOS 11 in the first place.

01:16:01 ◼   ► - Me neither, honestly, me neither.

01:16:04 ◼   ► All signs were pointing to Apple

01:16:06 ◼   ► sort of not wanting developers to use

01:16:13 ◼   ► always location access as much as they are.

01:16:16 ◼   ► They had an entire segment at WWDC talking about,

01:16:20 ◼   ► you know, how many apps use location access

01:16:22 ◼   ► in the background that they don't actually need it.

01:16:25 ◼   ► And they were talking about, you know,

01:16:27 ◼   ► all the stuff in iOS 11 with when in news is now enforced.

01:16:32 ◼   ► And that is still true.

01:16:33 ◼   ► You gotta support the when in news authorization

01:16:36 ◼   ► and you can also upgrade from when in news to always.

01:16:39 ◼   ► So none of that has changed.

01:16:40 ◼   ► - So all of that's the same.

01:16:42 ◼   ► - All of that is the same.

01:16:43 ◼   ► So your app needs to support

01:16:46 ◼   ► the basic when in news location access.

01:16:49 ◼   ► And your app can still do the upgrade flow

01:16:52 ◼   ► from when in use to always.

01:16:54 ◼   ► So that is still the same.

01:16:55 ◼   ► The only thing that has changed is

01:16:58 ◼   ► if your app is using the always type location access,

01:17:02 ◼   ► not necessarily it has to show the blue bar.

01:17:06 ◼   ► It's an option.

01:17:08 ◼   ► And if they want it, they can show it.

01:17:10 ◼   ► If they don't, they won't show the blue bar.

01:17:13 ◼   ► - I think that this is what happens

01:17:15 ◼   ► when you have a public beta, right?

01:17:16 ◼   ► Like I think it was the same with the cover sheet stuff

01:17:19 ◼   ► that I just expect that people were just losing their minds over this, right? Because, again,

01:17:24 ◼   ► this isn't on the iPad, is it? Because I've never seen the blue bar. Is it just on the

01:17:29 ◼   ► iPhone, this stuff?

01:17:30 ◼   ► I think it's also on the iPad. I'm not 100% sure because I didn't enable the Google Maps

01:17:36 ◼   ► timeline but I don't see why it wouldn't be on the iPad. So I just assume it's on both

01:17:42 ◼   ► of them.

01:17:43 ◼   ► Okay. Well, I mean, my assumption from this is just like they were paying attention to

01:17:47 ◼   ► to people that just weren't liking this feature, right?

01:17:50 ◼   ► The same with cover sheet, rather we,

01:17:52 ◼   ► there were a lot of people saying this doesn't work,

01:17:54 ◼   ► like the notification stuff doesn't work the way that I want,

01:17:56 ◼   ► like I need to be able to tap this,

01:17:57 ◼   ► like all this kind of stuff.

01:17:59 ◼   ► I just expect that it was a similar thing here,

01:18:01 ◼   ► because as we spoke about,

01:18:02 ◼   ► and we've been speaking about it for a couple of weeks,

01:18:04 ◼   ► right, this is not a good user experience,

01:18:06 ◼   ► having this persistent blue bar that pops up

01:18:08 ◼   ► because there's an application like Tracker or like Swarm,

01:18:12 ◼   ► which you want to be doing this stuff,

01:18:14 ◼   ► but there was no way to be like,

01:18:16 ◼   ► no, please just let me.

01:18:19 ◼   ► So I assume that they've just figured

01:18:20 ◼   ► we're just gonna revert it

01:18:22 ◼   ► and maybe come back to it later in another way.

01:18:25 ◼   ► I guess like if this at this stage,

01:18:27 ◼   ► it's probably for iOS 11 easier to remove the blue bar

01:18:31 ◼   ► than to change it to have this like user opt-in type thing,

01:18:35 ◼   ► right, like where I can go in and say like,

01:18:37 ◼   ► no, don't do it for this app.

01:18:39 ◼   ► I expect it's easier to just be like for this release,

01:18:42 ◼   ► just like let's just get rid of that.

01:18:44 ◼   ► We'll keep the underpinning of the whole location stuff.

01:18:47 ◼   ► We can then come back to it later on.

01:18:49 ◼   ► That makes sense to me.

01:18:51 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think so.

01:18:51 ◼   ► I thought about it and it seems like adding

01:18:53 ◼   ► an entire set of user preferences,

01:18:56 ◼   ► it's probably too late for that.

01:18:57 ◼   ► But to make a single API call, it's probably easier.

01:19:00 ◼   ► - Yep.

01:19:01 ◼   ► A couple of other little things I just wanted to touch on.

01:19:04 ◼   ► It seems that multitasking is being really kind of

01:19:06 ◼   ► called out during setup, which is really good.

01:19:11 ◼   ► - Yeah, I was setting up my iPad.

01:19:14 ◼   ► upgrading from beta 4 to beta 5 and during the update process, you know, when you get

01:19:20 ◼   ► a sign in to your account again, I saw these two screens, I believe they will get some

01:19:26 ◼   ► kind of video in the final seed, right now it's just a static image. They were basically

01:19:31 ◼   ► Apple explaining the dock and the new app switcher and how you can access recent apps

01:19:37 ◼   ► from the app switcher and also how you can put your favorite ones in the dock. So it

01:19:41 ◼   ► It seems like our feeling of you gotta buy into the idea of the dock and the app switcher

01:19:48 ◼   ► to understand iOS 11, it's also the way that Apple is gonna explain iOS 11 to people of

01:19:54 ◼   ► use the dock for your most important stuff and find your recent apps into the switcher

01:20:00 ◼   ► and then use drag and drop and you know all these other multitasking commands to rearrange

01:20:03 ◼   ► our apps or combined or you know with preview and slide over and stuff.

01:20:10 ◼   ► And then the last thing that I saw that I found interesting that there's been a bunch

01:20:13 ◼   ► of keyboard shortcuts added to files, which Steve Transmith obviously discovered, which

01:20:19 ◼   ► I think look great.

01:20:20 ◼   ► Like, there's a fantastic list here, like, create folder and duplicate and paste and

01:20:24 ◼   ► move it.

01:20:25 ◼   ► There's loads.

01:20:26 ◼   ► And I'm really excited about that.

01:20:28 ◼   ► A Vini app file should have these.

01:20:30 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:20:31 ◼   ► Oh, yeah.

01:20:32 ◼   ► I think it's great.

01:20:33 ◼   ► So it's good to see them adding those in.

01:20:35 ◼   ► I don't understand why create folder has to be common shift and probably because of compatibility

01:20:40 ◼   ► with the finder because on the finder command and creates a window instead of a new folder

01:20:45 ◼   ► which doesn't make any sense to me. So I guess they've kind of kept that for files as well

01:20:50 ◼   ► out of legacy.

01:20:51 ◼   ► Yeah, muscle memory.

01:20:52 ◼   ► Muscle memory, yeah. It doesn't make sense to me because why the shift? Well, like I'm

01:21:00 ◼   ► not opening a new window on iOS but it's fine.

01:21:03 ◼   ► wait to see what Command N does. Just keep pressing it all day. Someday something will

01:21:09 ◼   ► happen. Last thing before we finish today, I kind of wanted to, we're getting close to

01:21:13 ◼   ► this point and I know you guys are both working on reviews. I'm working on reviews of your

01:21:18 ◼   ► reviews so I'm really keen to see how this is coming along. Steven, I know that you're

01:21:23 ◼   ► working on a High Sierra review. How's that going for you?

01:21:28 ◼   ► It's good, slow, I actually spent some time today looking through the sections I've left

01:21:35 ◼   ► and I've put all the hard stuff off and now it's time to do the hard stuff.

01:21:37 ◼   ► But it's kind of nice because High Sierra is a smaller release so it's not as expansive,

01:21:43 ◼   ► not nearly as expansive as Federico has to do.

01:21:45 ◼   ► But there's still lots of little things.

01:21:48 ◼   ► I like to try to draw attention to the little touches, little grab bag stuff, just little

01:21:53 ◼   ► tweaks here and there and those just take time to find using High Sierra and noticing.

01:21:59 ◼   ► It's moving along, slowly but surely.

01:22:01 ◼   ► Federico?

01:22:03 ◼   ► It's going really well I think.

01:22:05 ◼   ► So usually by this time in August, so the first week of August, I'm still not even halfway

01:22:11 ◼   ► through and this time if my calculations and plans are correct, I should be done with the

01:22:20 ◼   ► writing either tomorrow or in a couple of days.

01:22:23 ◼   ► - Wow.

01:22:24 ◼   ► - And I basically have the entire review,

01:22:28 ◼   ► except the conclusion,

01:22:29 ◼   ► but I'm not gonna write the conclusion

01:22:31 ◼   ► until I've done at least a couple of rounds of editing.

01:22:35 ◼   ► But I have just one chapter left,

01:22:36 ◼   ► which was of course notifications and the cover sheet,

01:22:39 ◼   ► which I saved for the fifth beta of iOS.

01:22:42 ◼   ► Now I feel pretty confident

01:22:43 ◼   ► that that is the actual design we're gonna get.

01:22:46 ◼   ► So I only have that chapter left.

01:22:49 ◼   ► I finished a bunch of sections today of another chapter.

01:22:53 ◼   ► Now the only thing left is notifications.

01:22:55 ◼   ► I should be done with that in three to four hours, I think.

01:22:58 ◼   ► So once I'm done with that,

01:23:01 ◼   ► I've already done the editing for the intro

01:23:04 ◼   ► and I have an actual editor this time.

01:23:07 ◼   ► - It's me.

01:23:09 ◼   ► Ha ha.

01:23:10 ◼   ► (laughs)

01:23:11 ◼   ► - I can confirm it is not Myke.

01:23:13 ◼   ► Otherwise there would be no editing.

01:23:16 ◼   ► I'm just kidding, Myke. - Watch it.

01:23:17 ◼   ► Watch it.

01:23:18 ◼   ► I'm kidding. I add errors in that's my edit. That's how I do it. I just like to keep you on your toes. I

01:23:24 ◼   ► Think for you know, we're at the 8th of August. I think it's going well. I'm way ahead of schedule, which is good news

01:23:32 ◼   ► That's good news, man. I'm really pleased for you. You've you've budgeted your time real well this year

01:23:37 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean I basically haven't worked in two months, but

01:23:43 ◼   ► That's what happens when you have a team of people taking care of the website for you

01:23:47 ◼   ► you can focus on other stuff. So that's been great. But yeah, I'm basically done.

01:23:52 ◼   ► Alright, I think that wraps up this week's episode. You can go and find our show notes

01:23:56 ◼   ► at relay.fm/connected/154. You can also, whilst you're there, become a Relay FM member, support

01:24:02 ◼   ► this show, support any show that you want, we'd really appreciate it. If you want to

01:24:08 ◼   ► follow us on the internet, there's a few places you can do that. You can go to maxstories.net

01:24:12 ◼   ► or fivetotepixels.net. You can follow us on Twitter. I am @imike, I am YKE. Federico is

01:24:18 ◼   ► @vittici, V I T I C C I. Steven is @ismh. Thanks again to our lovely sponsors this week,

01:24:25 ◼   ► the fine folk over at FreshBooks, Balance and Encapsula. As always, thank you for listening

01:24:30 ◼   ► and we'll be back next time. Until then, say goodbye guys.

01:24:34 ◼   ► Adiós.