Connected

00:00:00 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

00:00:02 ◼   ► - Welcome to Connected, episode 153.

00:00:11 ◼   ► This week's show is brought to you by

00:00:12 ◼   ► Squarespace, Hover, and Pingdom.

00:00:14 ◼   ► My name is Stephen Hackett and I'm joined this week

00:00:17 ◼   ► by my co-host, who's now on the coast,

00:00:21 ◼   ► Federico Vittucci.

00:00:22 ◼   ► - Hey Stephen, how are you?

00:00:24 ◼   ► - I'm good.

00:00:25 ◼   ► So we won't give you exact coordinates

00:00:27 ◼   ► unless you just want to,

00:00:28 ◼   ► you're on a summer vacation.

00:00:30 ◼   ► - I literally just came back from the beach.

00:00:34 ◼   ► I'm still on my swimming suit and it's full of sand

00:00:39 ◼   ► and yeah, like came back and said I gotta call Steven

00:00:44 ◼   ► 'cause we gotta talk about Apple stuff.

00:00:48 ◼   ► And so the other, so we have a house here,

00:00:51 ◼   ► we have like a summer house that we're renting

00:00:53 ◼   ► for the month of August and there's people outside

00:00:57 ◼   ► coming here, staring at a Google document

00:01:00 ◼   ► with your profile picture, which is very nice, I should say.

00:01:03 ◼   ► But it's only you, there's no mic.

00:01:06 ◼   ► - There's no mic.

00:01:07 ◼   ► So Myke, someone who's been spending some time

00:01:10 ◼   ► in the US this summer, he's traveling today,

00:01:12 ◼   ► but he will be on the show next week,

00:01:16 ◼   ► and on the show on the 15th,

00:01:18 ◼   ► he will be in person with me in my office,

00:01:23 ◼   ► and so that'll be funny of that

00:01:24 ◼   ► to look forward to in two weeks.

00:01:26 ◼   ► If he survives, it will be with you.

00:01:30 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:01:31 ◼   ► If not, it's going to be really weird.

00:01:34 ◼   ► But that's in the future, and we have things to talk about today.

00:01:37 ◼   ► And to talk about things today, first we have to talk about things in the past, and that

00:01:40 ◼   ► is follow-up.

00:01:43 ◼   ► So my Logitech Circle 2 camera finally showed up.

00:01:46 ◼   ► It showed up last week.

00:01:47 ◼   ► Oh, nice.

00:01:48 ◼   ► Remember, it was a pre-order deal, and then mine shipped like three weeks later.

00:01:52 ◼   ► I bought the camera and then I bought the kit

00:01:55 ◼   ► to mount it to the inside of a window

00:01:57 ◼   ► where I wanted to look outside the house,

00:01:59 ◼   ► there was a window, it was like in the perfect spot.

00:02:01 ◼   ► And it's crazy how small this camera is.

00:02:05 ◼   ► So you know, I've got the Canary

00:02:08 ◼   ► and I have a couple nest cams,

00:02:10 ◼   ► but this thing is truly small

00:02:14 ◼   ► and the mounting kit is really clever

00:02:15 ◼   ► so it comes with a mount that you can just

00:02:17 ◼   ► put the power on the back of it

00:02:20 ◼   ► and then you put it in this thing

00:02:21 ◼   ► and it's got super sticky pads and goes onto the window

00:02:25 ◼   ► so it sits flush and so there's no glare or anything around,

00:02:28 ◼   ► which is really nice because their lens is like as close

00:02:30 ◼   ► to the glass as possible.

00:02:32 ◼   ► Does that make sense?

00:02:33 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:02:33 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:02:34 ◼   ► So is this a camera that they promised

00:02:38 ◼   ► you will get HomeKit support later?

00:02:41 ◼   ► Yes.

00:02:42 ◼   ► And I was thinking about this because this, the news,

00:02:47 ◼   ► we talked about this camera before WWDC.

00:02:50 ◼   ► And then at WWDC, Apple said,

00:02:53 ◼   ► we're gonna roll out software certification

00:02:56 ◼   ► for HomeKit devices.

00:02:58 ◼   ► So back when we were talking about this camera,

00:03:01 ◼   ► we were like, how can they add HomeKit support later

00:03:04 ◼   ► if they don't have a chip?

00:03:05 ◼   ► And then at WWDC, Apple comes out and says,

00:03:08 ◼   ► we don't need a chip anymore.

00:03:09 ◼   ► So it seems to me like Logitech knew of course,

00:03:13 ◼   ► ahead of the conference.

00:03:15 ◼   ► And they launched this product with the promise of HomeKit

00:03:18 ◼   ► because they knew Apple was, you know,

00:03:20 ◼   ► gonna roll out software updates to add HomeKit support,

00:03:24 ◼   ► which is nice.

00:03:26 ◼   ► - Yeah, it is.

00:03:26 ◼   ► The app that it comes with is, it's okay.

00:03:31 ◼   ► There's a couple things in there that I don't really like,

00:03:34 ◼   ► as far as like, some of the settings are a little hamfisted.

00:03:37 ◼   ► There's not a lot of finesse that you see in other,

00:03:40 ◼   ► like in the Nest Cam, for instance,

00:03:42 ◼   ► but it's a new product, I think they'll get there.

00:03:44 ◼   ► One thing that's really nice is the timeline view.

00:03:47 ◼   ► So on the right side of the screen,

00:03:49 ◼   ► you have basically a timeline.

00:03:51 ◼   ► You can kind of flick through it and see every time

00:03:53 ◼   ► over the last however many days it is,

00:03:56 ◼   ► that the camera has seen activity.

00:03:59 ◼   ► So if you have notifications off,

00:04:02 ◼   ► or you just kind of want to go,

00:04:05 ◼   ► someone came back earlier, you can scroll back

00:04:07 ◼   ► and they're all marked and you can just tap it

00:04:09 ◼   ► and it plays a little clip.

00:04:10 ◼   ► You can save the clip if you want.

00:04:12 ◼   ► It's all really, like the software,

00:04:14 ◼   ► it's sort of basic in some areas,

00:04:15 ◼   ► but the timeline feature is really good.

00:04:17 ◼   ► I do have a lot of camera apps now,

00:04:21 ◼   ► so I have the Canary app and the Nest Home app

00:04:24 ◼   ► 'cause I've got the thermostat as well and now this.

00:04:26 ◼   ► So that's a little funny on one of my home screens,

00:04:30 ◼   ► just a whole row of them.

00:04:32 ◼   ► - You like being watched.

00:04:36 ◼   ► - I like watching, yeah.

00:04:37 ◼   ► So the one thing I didn't anticipate,

00:04:42 ◼   ► and I don't know why I didn't,

00:04:44 ◼   ► My house has storm windows, so I have the regular windows

00:04:46 ◼   ► and there's an air gap and there's the exterior storm

00:04:48 ◼   ► windows, so I have lots of glare on mine.

00:04:50 ◼   ► So I'm kinda working that out,

00:04:53 ◼   ► I may end up moving this thing.

00:04:54 ◼   ► But all in all, I've been happy with it.

00:04:57 ◼   ► I think it does a great job.

00:04:59 ◼   ► And I really think there's modularity,

00:05:02 ◼   ► so you have the window mount, but then you have

00:05:07 ◼   ► other mounts that you can buy or that it comes with

00:05:10 ◼   ► to use the camera in different ways.

00:05:11 ◼   ► have one that's got a battery pack on it. I think that's a really clever way of doing

00:05:17 ◼   ► it. Instead of selling like Nest has the interior and the exterior cameras, this is all sort

00:05:21 ◼   ► of the same little like, to use a hypercritical term, naked robotic core and then you just

00:05:27 ◼   ► put on different attachments to make it work where you want it. I think that's a really

00:05:31 ◼   ► smart approach.

00:05:32 ◼   ► That's nice. Once they do the HomeKit integration, I should probably consider one of these, especially

00:05:39 ◼   ► like because of the, you know, I can put it anywhere. I like that approach, like there's

00:05:45 ◼   ► freedom granted by this modular system and that appeals to me. So once they do the home

00:05:52 ◼   ► kit integration, if it works well, I think I'm gonna, I'm gonna get one of these and

00:05:57 ◼   ► maybe use it outside. I don't know. But basically once you get two dogs, you have the perfect

00:06:02 ◼   ► excuse to buy all the cameras you want because you want to monitor them. And I assume it's

00:06:06 ◼   ► the same with babies. So I'm in the market for more cameras, especially if

00:06:12 ◼   ► they have HomeKit integration, so we'll see. Yeah, so that's that camera.

00:06:20 ◼   ► Thumbs up from me. We have someone asking, asking us to let them know when The

00:06:25 ◼   ► Rock is running for president. He's not yet. Not yet. Not yet, but we'll see.

00:06:29 ◼   ► - Yeah, so this is a funny story.

00:06:34 ◼   ► This came up last week.

00:06:37 ◼   ► So Wink is a, they have an iPhone app,

00:06:41 ◼   ► they have a platform that kind of connects

00:06:42 ◼   ► different smart home things.

00:06:43 ◼   ► So I use it the same way Myke does,

00:06:46 ◼   ► where I can control my Canary camera with my Echo.

00:06:50 ◼   ► So I can tell the Echo, you know,

00:06:51 ◼   ► turn my camera on or off and it can do it.

00:06:53 ◼   ► Wink does a lot of things, but that's what I use it for.

00:06:56 ◼   ► They were like inside of a company called Quirky that was trying to make like smart

00:07:04 ◼   ► connected objects that sort of imploded and then it was bought by Flextronics but now

00:07:09 ◼   ► it's been bought again by our friend, I don't want to say friend of the show, that seems

00:07:14 ◼   ► a bit strong but friend of humanity, Will.I.Am.

00:07:18 ◼   ► So well, okay. So it's just gonna be like, it's just gonna be on Planet of the Apps at

00:07:27 ◼   ► this point.

00:07:28 ◼   ► I mean his company, yeah, I am plus, bought it. I don't really know, so I'm looking at

00:07:34 ◼   ► their website right now. I don't know what they do. Like they have some Bluetooth headphones

00:07:39 ◼   ► here that look sort of ridiculous.

00:07:41 ◼   ► Oh yeah, like the fake beats by other artists. Yeah, there's a bunch of those.

00:07:47 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:07:48 ◼   ► I mean okay, so Will.am's company is getting into home automation because it's the hot

00:07:54 ◼   ► space at the moment.

00:07:57 ◼   ► I don't know because these services that they act as a kind of as a software bridge between

00:08:03 ◼   ► all of these different devices.

00:08:06 ◼   ► I don't know how long they can last for two reasons.

00:08:09 ◼   ► One because most people I think they prefer the native integrations and like using the

00:08:14 ◼   ► native stuff on iOS and Android.

00:08:16 ◼   ► So whatever Google is doing and what Apple is doing with home, it's just a better experience.

00:08:21 ◼   ► You get the Siri integration, you get the native app, you get all the hooks into the

00:08:25 ◼   ► system and it works better than these third-party solutions.

00:08:29 ◼   ► But also because you're building a third-party bridge on top of other services and other

00:08:35 ◼   ► APIs, the moment that something breaks, you're going to have to update your entire platform

00:08:40 ◼   ► and it's going to be a problem because Wink doesn't control all.

00:08:44 ◼   ► Or maybe it doesn't have the same leverage as Apple on companies like Philips for example,

00:08:52 ◼   ► or Honeywell for instance, or what's the name of the other thermostat that is really nice?

00:09:00 ◼   ► The...

00:09:01 ◼   ► The Ecobee.

00:09:02 ◼   ► The Ecobee.

00:09:03 ◼   ► So I think when Apple and Google approach these companies, they're like, "Hey, you've got

00:09:07 ◼   ► to support our framework and use the API and make sure that it works and that you follow

00:09:12 ◼   ► these guidelines and that you support these APIs."

00:09:14 ◼   ► feels to me like these bigger companies they have a stronger leverage and those manufacturers

00:09:20 ◼   ► they tend to follow you know Apple and Google because they're the platform owners but it's

00:09:27 ◼   ► not the same you know this API is breaking the wing support and I mean sure but what

00:09:34 ◼   ► you're gonna do about it. So I don't have any I don't have I feel like this third party

00:09:43 ◼   ► services that connect other third parties, they're going to be short lived and they work

00:09:49 ◼   ► well now, but I wouldn't bet on them for the future, honestly.

00:09:54 ◼   ► No, I agree. And as the built-in stuff just gets better, like with HomeKit being more

00:09:59 ◼   ► reasonable to work with, I think they're writing on the wall. So anyways, well I am. Did not

00:10:05 ◼   ► expect to talk about his company today. I wanted to ask you, like, whatever happened

00:10:09 ◼   ► to Planet of the Apps because we... Beats me. So does anyone know like the first episode

00:10:16 ◼   ► I saw a bunch of people saying episode two is better, episode three is better, but then

00:10:21 ◼   ► it kind of faded into the background. So I don't know, did it ever finish? I don't know,

00:10:26 ◼   ► I thought you were going to finish watching it. Did y'all not keep it up? I didn't, I

00:10:30 ◼   ► didn't finish watching the show at all. Like I watched segments of the first episode because

00:10:36 ◼   ► it just didn't pull me in at all. I'm really excited about the carpool karaoke that Apple

00:10:41 ◼   ► is doing on Apple Music. That one, that show, I'm excited about. And it's launching, I think,

00:10:47 ◼   ► next week on August 8th. Apple had a promo video. So that is looking good. But this planet

00:10:52 ◼   ► of the apps, man, I think, you know, those people that were skeptical ahead of the release,

00:10:58 ◼   ► they were kind of right. It just doesn't feel like a, like a, like a good fit for Apple

00:11:03 ◼   ► and the App Store and maybe the way that it was promoted also was doomed to fail. I don't

00:11:09 ◼   ► think we'll see another experiment like this in terms of Apple doing fake reality TV.

00:11:16 ◼   ► Yeah, I think I agree with you on all that. The promo for Carpool Carrique was a lot of

00:11:23 ◼   ► fun. It was fun to watch and I think I'm looking forward to checking the first episode of that

00:11:30 ◼   ► out. Maybe we'll do that for next week's show probably.

00:11:32 ◼   ► Yeah, but even thematically, you know, it's such a better fit for Apple Music to have a TV show about music inside the streaming services

00:11:40 ◼   ► you know that you pay for. That's a great idea. So we'll see how it goes.

00:11:44 ◼   ► So this week's episode is brought to you by

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00:13:09 ◼   ► support for connected. We thank you to Squarespace for their support of this

00:13:12 ◼   ► show. Squarespace, make your next move, make your next website. So Stephen are you

00:13:19 ◼   ► sad this week? A little bit. So last week it was a Thursday I think, the

00:13:30 ◼   ► 27th, someone noticed that apple.com/iPod just redirected to apple.com/iPodTouch

00:13:39 ◼   ► and in the store the iPod Nano and iPod Shuffle cannot be found. About an hour

00:13:45 ◼   ► later Apple issued a statement to some members of the press there was no

00:13:50 ◼   ► press release or anything basically saying they were simplifying their iPod

00:13:54 ◼   ► lineup with the updated the iPod touch storage and pricing and discontinuing

00:14:00 ◼   ► the shuffle and Anno and now they're gone they're gone Federico. That is that

00:14:03 ◼   ► is kind of sad like what a subtle way to go out you know like not with a bang but

00:14:11 ◼   ► with a whimper. That's a solid quote. It's a good job. I think it's, I mean, it's to

00:14:18 ◼   ► be expected at this point. Like obviously most people are listening to music either

00:14:22 ◼   ► on YouTube or Apple Music or Spotify. Spotify, by the way, announced they have, I think,

00:14:28 ◼   ► 60 million subscribers. So that's pretty awesome. Yeah, that's a lot of people. And it's, it's,

00:14:34 ◼   ► it's clear that the, the general market is going into that direction of paying for streaming

00:14:41 ◼   ► and I know we talked about this before there's still space for classic music

00:14:46 ◼   ► players especially because they just work right you don't have to worry about

00:14:50 ◼   ► cellular connections you don't have to worry about storage because what you pay

00:14:54 ◼   ► for is the storage you have and then you put songs in there and you're done but

00:14:59 ◼   ► most people do not listen to music that way anymore and I know that for a long

00:15:05 ◼   ► time you've been one of those people longer than Myke and I have for sure. So how do you

00:15:13 ◼   ► feel about the classic iPod, the notion of the classic iPod going away?

00:15:20 ◼   ► I mean I'm fully aware that the reality you outlined is what's true, that people are streaming

00:15:26 ◼   ► music and listening on their iPhones and like I have an iPod that I'll travel with some

00:15:31 ◼   ► but I don't listen to music on an iPod on a regular basis. I still use iTunes on a regular

00:15:35 ◼   ► which I think we're gonna talk about in a minute.

00:15:38 ◼   ► But I think a lot of people saw this news

00:15:41 ◼   ► and were surprised that it hadn't happened already.

00:15:44 ◼   ► Some people on Twitter were like,

00:15:46 ◼   ► "Wait, they hadn't done this already?"

00:15:48 ◼   ► And some comments under my YouTube video

00:15:51 ◼   ► said the same thing, which I just found surprising.

00:15:53 ◼   ► So I don't know why the time is now.

00:15:56 ◼   ► Maybe they're just sort of cleaning up

00:15:59 ◼   ► in advance of the HomePod.

00:16:00 ◼   ► Maybe they had some sort of limited quantity left

00:16:05 ◼   ► and they've reached the end of that quantity

00:16:07 ◼   ► and now it's just done.

00:16:08 ◼   ► I do think there is still room

00:16:12 ◼   ► for something like the Shuffle

00:16:14 ◼   ► and I think a lot of people,

00:16:17 ◼   ► when they heard me say that,

00:16:18 ◼   ► responded with the Apple Watch.

00:16:20 ◼   ► And so last night I just went to Twitter

00:16:22 ◼   ► with the show account and asked people,

00:16:24 ◼   ► "Do you listen to music that you sync to your Apple Watch?"

00:16:28 ◼   ► And we got a bunch of replies and a bunch of people do it

00:16:31 ◼   ► and a bunch of people don't do it.

00:16:34 ◼   ► I found it really interesting.

00:16:35 ◼   ► The people who do seem really excited about it,

00:16:38 ◼   ► and then I think a lot of people are like me,

00:16:40 ◼   ► when they go for a run or for a bike ride,

00:16:43 ◼   ► they're gonna have their phone anyways,

00:16:45 ◼   ► and so the watch hasn't become important enough

00:16:49 ◼   ► or capable enough to stand on its own for them

00:16:51 ◼   ► so that they're not using the iPod functionality

00:16:55 ◼   ► in the watch, which I found really interesting.

00:16:57 ◼   ► And I was curious what you do.

00:16:58 ◼   ► Have you synced or listened to music just on your watch?

00:17:01 ◼   ► I think the point for me is I have synced music, but the process is so invisible after

00:17:09 ◼   ► you set it up. I don't even know if I'm streaming from the iPhone or the watch. I guess if I

00:17:16 ◼   ► start music from the watch itself and that playlist happens to be downloaded, then it's

00:17:21 ◼   ► streaming music from my watch. But I think I have done this before, like when I was working

00:17:27 ◼   ► now for example and my phone was in my house but I don't think I even thought about it

00:17:34 ◼   ► like it just happened and maybe I am one of those users after all I just haven't thought

00:17:41 ◼   ► about it because I set it up months ago like I picked a bunch of playlists that I want

00:17:47 ◼   ► to be available on my watch I think that's what I did and then I just without thinking

00:17:53 ◼   ► about it I put on my AirPods and the watch and before starting a workout I hit play in

00:17:57 ◼   ► the music app and yeah so I guess I am a user of that not that often but I think it worked

00:18:06 ◼   ► pretty well so I didn't notice anything weird so yeah I guess I do use it.

00:18:11 ◼   ► Yeah I agree with you the whole mechanism for syncing music to the watch or playing

00:18:16 ◼   ► music back on the watch making sure your AirPods are paired all of that could be better and

00:18:23 ◼   ► But all that said, my point of something like the Shuffle

00:18:27 ◼   ► still has room in this world with something super small,

00:18:29 ◼   ► you just clip it on, it doesn't weigh anything,

00:18:31 ◼   ► you can just go.

00:18:32 ◼   ► Like the watch is a better version of that

00:18:33 ◼   ► 'cause you're already wearing it if you own one

00:18:36 ◼   ► and you don't have to have wired headphones

00:18:37 ◼   ► 'cause they work with AirPods.

00:18:38 ◼   ► And so I think the watch hopefully over time

00:18:41 ◼   ► will take over that role and for me,

00:18:43 ◼   ► once it can do sailor stuff, I'll leave my phone behind.

00:18:46 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:18:47 ◼   ► - Which we've talked about length in the past.

00:18:48 ◼   ► So I think this whole story is like,

00:18:51 ◼   ► it's surprising it took so long,

00:18:53 ◼   ► It makes total sense that they did it.

00:18:55 ◼   ► And it's, you know, I played up,

00:18:58 ◼   ► like if you watch my video, like it's intentionally sad.

00:19:01 ◼   ► Like the piano music is really sad.

00:19:03 ◼   ► - It's very sad.

00:19:04 ◼   ► It's very sad when the iPod kind of trips over

00:19:08 ◼   ► because it's kind of funny.

00:19:10 ◼   ► I thought that was like top notch movie moment in the video.

00:19:15 ◼   ► Like super sad, super sort of nostalgic.

00:19:18 ◼   ► And that was really solid work.

00:19:22 ◼   ► The hardest part of that was speaking

00:19:24 ◼   ► in such a monotone voice.

00:19:25 ◼   ► Like I shot that like six times.

00:19:27 ◼   ► Like I kept wanting to have inflection and be myself.

00:19:32 ◼   ► And it's like, no, you have to talk.

00:19:33 ◼   ► - Be emotional.

00:19:34 ◼   ► - Very quietly.

00:19:36 ◼   ► But that's played up in the video, right?

00:19:40 ◼   ► I think there are people,

00:19:41 ◼   ► like I did hear from people who ran out

00:19:43 ◼   ► and bought a Shuffle or bought a Nano.

00:19:45 ◼   ► I think maybe even now,

00:19:46 ◼   ► you can still get one if they're in stores.

00:19:49 ◼   ► 'Cause some people do want them,

00:19:50 ◼   ► but clearly the era of the iPod is over, obviously.

00:19:55 ◼   ► - Yeah, and speaking about the watch, I think,

00:19:58 ◼   ► I mean, besides cellular connection,

00:20:00 ◼   ► so if the watch ever gets a SIM card

00:20:02 ◼   ► and I can put a SIM in there

00:20:04 ◼   ► and I can stream music wherever I am,

00:20:07 ◼   ► that's gonna be awesome,

00:20:08 ◼   ► because I can just walk around, pick a song,

00:20:11 ◼   ► maybe it doesn't have to be synced,

00:20:12 ◼   ► I don't even have to know,

00:20:13 ◼   ► and it goes straight to my AirPods

00:20:15 ◼   ► or maybe even to my car's Bluetooth.

00:20:18 ◼   ► That could be an idea.

00:20:19 ◼   ► So that's gonna be great.

00:20:20 ◼   ► But I think also there should be a way on the iPhone, so when you're using the music app,

00:20:26 ◼   ► I would like to have like a button that says "send this album" or "send this playlist to the watch"

00:20:32 ◼   ► and like you directly from the music app on the phone, so you don't have to go into the watch app,

00:20:38 ◼   ► nobody uses the watch app, besides to do settings and you know, setup.

00:20:42 ◼   ► But I think to have contextual features, sort of like when using TestFlight,

00:20:48 ◼   ► And from TestFlight itself, you can flip a toggle and you put the app of that iPhone

00:20:54 ◼   ► app on the watch.

00:20:55 ◼   ► I would like to have that kind of toggle in music to say download this album or playlist

00:21:01 ◼   ► or whatever on the watch.

00:21:03 ◼   ► And if you combine that with cellular and if you combine that also with possibly increased

00:21:09 ◼   ► independency from the iPhone.

00:21:11 ◼   ► So if the watch becomes more independent from the iPhone, if Siri doesn't have to go back

00:21:18 ◼   ► and forth, jump back and forth between the iPhone to answer questions and to do the processing.

00:21:23 ◼   ► So if the watch gets serious processing features, like it can do more directly on the chip inside

00:21:29 ◼   ► the watch, you're basically going to have a true wearable device that doesn't require

00:21:35 ◼   ► an iPhone. It can still communicate with the iPhone, but you can also use it on your own.

00:21:40 ◼   ► And that kind of becomes the future of the iPod in a way. It is truly a pod that is always

00:21:45 ◼   ► with you and it doesn't need a bridge to iTunes or to the iPhone. So that would be

00:21:51 ◼   ► amazing, honestly.

00:21:54 ◼   ► Yeah, it kind of lives up to that promise of the iPod.

00:21:58 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:21:58 ◼   ► Like in a more full way, right? Like the iPod you always had to have in your pocket or make

00:22:02 ◼   ► sure you had it on you, right? Or you left it in your car or something. And like my watch,

00:22:07 ◼   ► I get up and I put it on and I take it off before bed and it's with me all day and I

00:22:13 ◼   ► and I don't have to think about it.

00:22:15 ◼   ► Now of course most of us are that way with our phones too,

00:22:18 ◼   ► but the watch is like one step further that,

00:22:20 ◼   ► you know, if I go out and do something physical,

00:22:23 ◼   ► it may be the only device I have with me.

00:22:26 ◼   ► And I agree with you, I think the idea of having

00:22:28 ◼   ► that toggle in the music app is brilliant.

00:22:31 ◼   ► Because I mean, when I upgraded watches earlier this year,

00:22:35 ◼   ► you know, I keep a playlist of like,

00:22:37 ◼   ► I call it like my reserve playlist of like,

00:22:39 ◼   ► if I'm stranded somewhere and just wanna listen

00:22:40 ◼   ► to something, like just a couple of albums

00:22:42 ◼   ► I really care about and I had to like sit down and remember how to do it like I do this stuff for a living

00:22:48 ◼   ► Right. It's like where like how do I get music on this thing?

00:22:51 ◼   ► right

00:22:51 ◼   ► like you have to have a playlist set up and you have to go to the watch app and find the playlist and then it

00:22:55 ◼   ► Takes approximately 200 years to sync it all all that could be better and I think though I really think they'll get there

00:23:02 ◼   ► You know, I don't know if they're ever gonna have the whole Apple music client on the watch

00:23:06 ◼   ► I kind of hope not but I think it should definitely be easier

00:23:08 ◼   ► Like the watch should be a destination for a song that you're playing with right now like

00:23:12 ◼   ► There's like the share sheet you can send stuff around the watch should be

00:23:16 ◼   ► At the end of one of those commands, I think

00:23:19 ◼   ► Yeah, especially in iOS 11 like we're seeing some of these ideas like in photos. There's now on the iPhone

00:23:26 ◼   ► There's now an extension that when you when you share a photo. There's a button in the bottom row that says

00:23:33 ◼   ► Use as watch face and it's kind of same idea like taking

00:23:38 ◼   ► content, such an awful word, but taking stuff from the iPhone and offering like contextual

00:23:46 ◼   ► shortcuts to say, also put these on the watch because it's, you know, it's a shortcut to

00:23:54 ◼   ► an object that is always with us, but you don't want to spend time setting everything

00:23:59 ◼   ► up from scratch. So I think the more iOS moves in this direction are offering options and

00:24:05 ◼   ► shortcuts and like quick ways to take what is on the phone and put it on the

00:24:10 ◼   ► watch that's gonna be so useful and especially you know because the watch is

00:24:15 ◼   ► still not independent from the iPhone so we need more of these options I think

00:24:19 ◼   ► yeah no totally agree I'd like to see them push that forward but to back up a

00:24:26 ◼   ► little bit from we talked about this leaves a big iTunes shaped question on

00:24:31 ◼   ► on the table.

00:24:32 ◼   ► So, I don't know if people know this,

00:24:34 ◼   ► so I have like the very first iPod, the 2001 iPod,

00:24:37 ◼   ► that still syncs with iTunes today.

00:24:39 ◼   ► Like you have to have like Firewire 400 to 800,

00:24:42 ◼   ► a Thunderbolt, but if you can physically hook it up,

00:24:44 ◼   ► it still syncs, like all that junk is still in iTunes.

00:24:47 ◼   ► And some of us, you know, I still sing music to my phone

00:24:51 ◼   ► over USB even though more and more I feel the call

00:24:54 ◼   ► of Spotify, but all that stuff is like wrapped up in iTunes

00:25:00 ◼   ► and iTunes on the Mac, let alone Windows, is aging,

00:25:04 ◼   ► and if you're an Apple Music subscriber,

00:25:07 ◼   ► it's actually kind of confusing in places,

00:25:09 ◼   ► and it's just, it's an old app that feels increasingly

00:25:13 ◼   ► out of date and sort of out of context

00:25:17 ◼   ► with everything else that they're doing.

00:25:18 ◼   ► Like if you look at media management in iTunes,

00:25:21 ◼   ► and you look at the new TV app on iOS,

00:25:24 ◼   ► there are worlds of difference,

00:25:26 ◼   ► and the TV app is a lot better in a lot of ways.

00:25:29 ◼   ► And I wonder if part of this is, with an eye cut to the future where iTunes is marked as

00:25:35 ◼   ► legacy and replaced with something slowly, and that if they replace it with something,

00:25:40 ◼   ► it has none of that syncing stuff in it, right?

00:25:43 ◼   ► The people like me who sync music to their phones even, you know, we're gonna get caught

00:25:46 ◼   ► up in this and, hey, you know, this new app, you have local music, you have Apple Music

00:25:51 ◼   ► Music, Apple Music Music, and that's it.

00:25:55 ◼   ► And if you still want syncing, iTunes is still over here, we'll support it for a couple,

00:25:58 ◼   ► you know, OS releases, but I can't help but wonder

00:26:01 ◼   ► if this is the beginning of a move in that direction.

00:26:03 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean--

00:26:04 ◼   ► - It's time, it's time, right?

00:26:06 ◼   ► Like, it's time.

00:26:07 ◼   ► - Yeah, I guess so, like, just pull the trigger

00:26:11 ◼   ► and split up iTunes in multiple apps,

00:26:13 ◼   ► offer like an actual Apple Music client on the Mac.

00:26:17 ◼   ► I was trying to use Apple Music on my Mac a few days ago,

00:26:21 ◼   ► so I was about to record a show,

00:26:22 ◼   ► and I was early, so I had like 10 minutes.

00:26:25 ◼   ► I was like, you know what, I'm gonna listen to a song.

00:26:27 ◼   ► So I click on the iTunes icon.

00:26:30 ◼   ► And let aside the fact that you gotta deal with the iTunes UI, like the entire store

00:26:37 ◼   ► navigation, but also like I picked a song in Apple Music and then, you know, on iOS

00:26:44 ◼   ► when you're listening to a song and you want to jump to the full album, you can click on

00:26:47 ◼   ► the, you can tap on the song name or the artist's name and you jump into the, like the parent

00:26:54 ◼   ► view of the album that contains the song. And I couldn't figure out how to do the

00:26:59 ◼   ► same on the Mac. So it's like I was clicking around and like, I don't know how to get

00:27:03 ◼   ► from a single to the full album. I have no idea. And that's because they sort of brought

00:27:10 ◼   ► Apple Music into iTunes, but they're still constrained by the entire paradigms and the

00:27:17 ◼   ► UI metaphors that iTunes uses. So honestly, at this point, I think Apple is doing a disservice

00:27:23 ◼   ► to the people who pay for Apple Music by not offering a native client on the Mac and just

00:27:29 ◼   ► make it a feature of iTunes because it's just so complex and it's always been complex but

00:27:36 ◼   ► at this point it's just ridiculous. You've got TV shows and podcasts and Apple Music

00:27:39 ◼   ► in there. It doesn't make sense anymore. And now that you don't have classic iPods anymore,

00:27:44 ◼   ► I think it's the right moment to, you know, it's been a good run, iTunes, but it's time

00:27:50 ◼   ► to move on.

00:27:51 ◼   ► Agreed. I think even those of us who have a lot of local music and big

00:27:56 ◼   ► libraries, I agree with you. We have a family iTunes that I have set up

00:28:02 ◼   ► to automatically download anything we purchase, but movies are in there, TV

00:28:05 ◼   ► shows are in there for the whole family, and that library is huge. I mean,

00:28:10 ◼   ► who knows how many movies and TV shows in it. Anytime I have to do

00:28:13 ◼   ► anything in it, and it's on a machine that's, you know, it's an older Mac Mini,

00:28:18 ◼   ► but the library is on a Drobo like it's pretty fast setup and anytime I do anything in there

00:28:23 ◼   ► it's just like I just I just want to strangle it and you know my my library my iMac is much smaller

00:28:29 ◼   ► but even there on a you know

00:28:32 ◼   ► Two year old iMac with an SSD and a music only smaller library. It's still so

00:28:38 ◼   ► just just awkward because they've added so many things over the years and bolt us so many things on and

00:28:44 ◼   ► And a couple years ago, the redesign helped with some of that, but try to explain to somebody

00:28:51 ◼   ► over the phone how to make a playlist in iTunes.

00:28:53 ◼   ► It cannot be done.

00:28:54 ◼   ► You cannot do it because it has just grown into this monster.

00:29:02 ◼   ► If iPod's going away, if that's a signal or if Apple's sort of giving itself permission

00:29:09 ◼   ► to say, "Hey, you know what? This old model of music, some people still want it, but it

00:29:15 ◼   ► is the past and more and more focusing on Apple Music." I mean, the quarterly results

00:29:20 ◼   ► services is up again. It's a growing part of the company. Then your software should

00:29:26 ◼   ► mirror that reality, I think. So I think that does it. Rest in peace, iPod

00:29:32 ◼   ► Nano and Shuffle. Thank you for the years of fun. Lots of years. Lots of years. Lots

00:29:38 ◼   ► of fun. We're gonna talk about iPads in a second. But first, I want to tell you about

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00:30:45 ◼   ► so your email address, phone number, home address is published online and marketers,

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00:31:28 ◼   ► So your platform of choice had a big news day yesterday.

00:31:34 ◼   ► Yeah, so Apple posted their Q3 2017 results and one aspect stood out, especially considering

00:31:46 ◼   ► the past couple of years, that iPad sales are up.

00:31:50 ◼   ► Like 15% increase year over year and 28% from the previous quarter.

00:31:57 ◼   ► And that is a notable piece of information because the iPad sales have been down for

00:32:03 ◼   ► I think two to three years.

00:32:04 ◼   ► It's been a recurring topic of the show where Myke and I are really excited about the iPad

00:32:09 ◼   ► but the iPad sales don't back our excitement.

00:32:14 ◼   ► The last time they had growth was I believe 2013, 2014, year over year.

00:32:20 ◼   ► So it's been three years.

00:32:22 ◼   ► So it's been a long stretch of time and obviously looking at the numbers, yes the sales are

00:32:30 ◼   ► up 15% but in terms of revenue they're only up I think 2% and that suggests that Apple

00:32:41 ◼   ► has sold a lot of cheaper iPads.

00:32:44 ◼   ► So the new ones starting at $329.

00:32:49 ◼   ► So the iPad, I think the fifth generation iPad is called, that launched earlier this

00:32:55 ◼   ► year and we were talking back when that iPad was announced.

00:33:00 ◼   ► We said it's obviously an iPad for education purposes and for people who just want the

00:33:04 ◼   ► basic tablet.

00:33:06 ◼   ► And it seems that's exactly what happened.

00:33:08 ◼   ► Apple sold a bunch of these iPads to education customers.

00:33:13 ◼   ► So I'm pretty sure that during the call, Tim Cook noted that the education sales were up.

00:33:19 ◼   ► So it suggests that iPad is doing well in that segment.

00:33:22 ◼   ► And of course, Apple saw demand for people who want to spend $300 on an iPad, don't want

00:33:30 ◼   ► an iPad Pro, don't want stuff like the pencil and the smart keyboard.

00:33:34 ◼   ► So they went there and they sold those iPads.

00:33:37 ◼   ► So while it's great that iPad sales are up again, I think they're not up in the way that

00:33:45 ◼   ► people like Myke and I would like them to be up.

00:33:48 ◼   ► So in terms of iPad Pro and people switching from Windows PC and Macs to the iPad as a

00:33:55 ◼   ► full-time computer.

00:33:57 ◼   ► But I think it has momentum.

00:33:59 ◼   ► Like the platform has momentum at this point.

00:34:03 ◼   ► There's a new narrative that iPad sales can be up and there's new iPad Pro hardware that

00:34:09 ◼   ► launched in June.

00:34:11 ◼   ► Really powerful stuff with the ProMotion display, with the pencil performance, with the new

00:34:16 ◼   ► screens, the new screen size.

00:34:18 ◼   ► And there's iOS 11 launching later this year.

00:34:21 ◼   ► So I think if you combine these two, if you combine the fact that Apple can still sell

00:34:27 ◼   ► more iPads than we expect, and they have a sort of one-two punch of the iPad Pro and

00:34:33 ◼   ► iOS 11 in the same year, I think that bodes well for even the next quarter. If Apple can

00:34:42 ◼   ► still provide a reasonable story around iOS 11 for people who want to switch to the iPad,

00:34:49 ◼   ► I think now more than ever really since 2014 they have a chance to re-explain the iPad

00:34:58 ◼   ► to people.

00:34:59 ◼   ► At least I want to believe again or still that this can happen.

00:35:05 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:35:06 ◼   ► What do you think?

00:35:07 ◼   ► No, I mean, so I think the breakdown of clearly the 329 iPad has taken off.

00:35:13 ◼   ► I think they said in the call a million to education so far.

00:35:18 ◼   ► Part of that is that spring launch, right,

00:35:20 ◼   ► they got in there for school purchasing.

00:35:23 ◼   ► But clearly people who buy iPads in bulk

00:35:27 ◼   ► were looking for a device like that.

00:35:29 ◼   ► And it's great for consumers as well

00:35:31 ◼   ► 'cause it's cheap and it's got relatively newish stuff

00:35:33 ◼   ► in there, but clearly a big hit

00:35:36 ◼   ► for people who buy lots of iPads.

00:35:38 ◼   ► And while that may not translate to the iPad Pro market

00:35:42 ◼   ► right now, I think it could open the door for that

00:35:45 ◼   ► in the future if people are using iPads at school

00:35:48 ◼   ► or work, their teacher or their boss assigns them an iPad,

00:35:53 ◼   ► then maybe they get used to it and that's good

00:35:56 ◼   ► for the whole ecosystem down the road,

00:35:59 ◼   ► but it's not today, right, that's a long-term thing.

00:36:03 ◼   ► But I think the basic story here is that the iPad

00:36:06 ◼   ► has some momentum and the narrative now is not,

00:36:11 ◼   ► well the iPad keeps sliding but now the narrative is hey you know the iPad is is

00:36:15 ◼   ► on the upswing and we have to you know wait another three months to see if it

00:36:19 ◼   ► does that again if this is a one-time thing but you know Apple Apple stock

00:36:25 ◼   ► closed at an all-time high after hours yesterday and there's lots of reasons

00:36:30 ◼   ► for that but I would imagine at least one reason is that the iPad is no longer

00:36:33 ◼   ► sliding that it has not only stopped but made up ground and so I think that's the

00:36:39 ◼   ► big story, I think we get bogged down in like individual devices, but I think

00:36:43 ◼   ► overall it's a thumbs up that the iPad is is finding its legs again. Yeah, I

00:36:50 ◼   ► think so and I think ultimately it all comes down to what the reception to iOS 11

00:36:56 ◼   ► is gonna be like and judging from what we see on Twitter and we talked about

00:37:00 ◼   ► this also, I think it's gonna be for pro users sort of a divisive release because

00:37:08 ◼   ► multitasking stuff is not going down well with... Some people are used to, you know,

00:37:13 ◼   ► the Mac metaphor of spaces and multitasking and, like, doing split views, but I think

00:37:19 ◼   ► Apple can adjust to those over time and they can still figure out ways to appeal to, you

00:37:25 ◼   ► know, the folks who want to switch. Because that's all what it is about, really. Apple

00:37:28 ◼   ► wants to convince folks who are still on Windows PCs and other desktop computers to switch

00:37:34 ◼   ► to iPads. And I feel like with this new hardware and with iOS 11, and if the developer community

00:37:44 ◼   ► can respond to the features in iOS 11 and sort of revitalizing the iPad app store with

00:37:51 ◼   ► stuff like drag and drop and, you know, integrating with the keyboard shortcuts that maybe some

00:37:57 ◼   ► folks ignored when iOS 9 launched. I think the iPad ecosystem could become much stronger

00:38:06 ◼   ► than it is today and when that happens, does it ever have a reflection on sales? Can Apple

00:38:12 ◼   ► convince folks to abandon their five-year-old crummy PC to something modern and faster and

00:38:21 ◼   ► better? That's the big question and that also depends not just on the hardware that Apple

00:38:26 ◼   ► can make exceptionally well, or the software which Apple is making again for the iPad this

00:38:31 ◼   ► time, but it also depends on marketing and it depends on pricing and it depends on how

00:38:37 ◼   ► do you reach those customers. And so judging from the marketing campaigns that Apple has

00:38:42 ◼   ► done for the iPad Pro in the past few months, those have been effective I think. They're

00:38:48 ◼   ► on TV everywhere, there's people talking about the iPad Pro, and those are nice ads, after

00:38:54 ◼   ► They're short, they communicate the goal of the iPad as a platform.

00:38:59 ◼   ► And so I think Apple has momentum in a bunch of different fields surrounding the iPad.

00:39:05 ◼   ► Marketing, software, hardware, and now even results.

00:39:09 ◼   ► And usually when you have this combination of all these factors, usually it's really

00:39:16 ◼   ► hard to do wrong.

00:39:19 ◼   ► Especially when you're a company like Apple, if you can't communicate, if you've got the

00:39:21 ◼   ► the hardware, you got the software, and you got the good pricing and virtually no competition

00:39:28 ◼   ► you know aside from the Surface tablets. You know there's no other, you know, basically

00:39:36 ◼   ► it comes down to the iPad or the Surface at this point. I would be surprised if the next

00:39:42 ◼   ► quarter the iPad doesn't do well but you know maybe I'm wrong, maybe this is just a one

00:39:48 ◼   ► off of people about the cheap iPad. Yeah I mean I think time will tell. If

00:39:54 ◼   ► anything I would hope that it just levels off right that if we can't

00:39:58 ◼   ► sustain the growth that at the very least you know maybe the cheap iPad gave

00:40:03 ◼   ► it a push and iOS 11 will sort of keep it there. I was hoping I think like the

00:40:11 ◼   ► two of you were that the the 10.5 inch iPad Pro would have made a bigger

00:40:14 ◼   ► difference than it seemed to. You know, Apple doesn't release numbers on how

00:40:19 ◼   ► many models they sell. This is all sort of inferred from the sales percentage

00:40:22 ◼   ► increase and the revenue percentage increase. But I think, you know, I think

00:40:29 ◼   ► with iOS 11, you know, if someone's on an older iPad that may, you know, that may

00:40:34 ◼   ► entice them to upgrade. They may look at that 10.5 and or the 329 iPad and

00:40:38 ◼   ► and move forward.

00:40:40 ◼   ► I think the other interesting thing here is that

00:40:44 ◼   ► the iPad Mini's not part of this conversation at all.

00:40:46 ◼   ► Right, like people are assuming it's the 9.7 inch iPad

00:40:51 ◼   ► and the Mini is just not in the conversation.

00:40:55 ◼   ► It's still for sale, you can still buy an iPad Mini,

00:40:57 ◼   ► I think there's one skew, but it,

00:41:00 ◼   ► if we'd had this conversation three years ago,

00:41:03 ◼   ► people would be like, "Oh yeah, the iPad Mini

00:41:05 ◼   ► "must be on the uptake."

00:41:06 ◼   ► But I think now the Mini is sort of like the, those iPods we talked about where it's, I

00:41:12 ◼   ► think it's time is slipping away from it.

00:41:15 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:41:17 ◼   ► I don't know anyone who uses an iPad Mini anymore.

00:41:20 ◼   ► Like even my friends.

00:41:22 ◼   ► You used to do all your work on an iPad Mini.

00:41:24 ◼   ► I used to.

00:41:25 ◼   ► When we started this show, you ran Mac stories on an iPad Mini.

00:41:29 ◼   ► That is absolutely true.

00:41:31 ◼   ► And it's the iPad that got me into the idea of working on the iPad.

00:41:35 ◼   ► So I own the iPad mini big time, really.

00:41:40 ◼   ► But it's, again, sort of like iTunes and the old iPods.

00:41:44 ◼   ► I think it's past its time, you know, with big iPhones and the new iPad Pros.

00:41:50 ◼   ► I don't see a spot for the iPad mini anymore.

00:41:54 ◼   ► And iOS 11 is so obviously geared to something with a larger screen.

00:41:59 ◼   ► Like it's better on the 10.5 than the 9.7.

00:42:03 ◼   ► But I haven't played with it on the 12.9,

00:42:05 ◼   ► but I imagine it's way better on the 12.9.

00:42:07 ◼   ► It's much, much better on the-- as always,

00:42:11 ◼   ► with split view and these features,

00:42:13 ◼   ► it's so much better on the big screen.

00:42:15 ◼   ► So anything else about the iPads or anything else

00:42:18 ◼   ► in the quarter of the results that jump out at you?

00:42:20 ◼   ► Well, the services revenue, I think that was interesting,

00:42:24 ◼   ► that Apple is still growing.

00:42:25 ◼   ► And I saw the argument from some folks on Twitter

00:42:30 ◼   ► that much of the revenue that Apple reports on their services

00:42:35 ◼   ► is actually a fee because they are a payment processor.

00:42:39 ◼   ► So like they process payments for customers on iTunes

00:42:44 ◼   ► and the apps and they take a fee, for example,

00:42:48 ◼   ► from developers.

00:42:49 ◼   ► And that is not really generating revenue

00:42:52 ◼   ► like Google or Amazon do.

00:42:55 ◼   ► They're like actually providing services.

00:42:59 ◼   ► So the argument goes that Apple owes a huge portion

00:43:02 ◼   ► of its services revenue to the rather non-exciting act

00:43:10 ◼   ► of taking the commission.

00:43:12 ◼   ► But I don't think the argument is fair, honestly,

00:43:15 ◼   ► because running the App Store and the iTunes Store

00:43:19 ◼   ► itself is running a service, and a huge one,

00:43:22 ◼   ► if you consider all the users that Apple has.

00:43:25 ◼   ► And also Google and others also take a fee from purchases on the Google Play Store for

00:43:31 ◼   ► example.

00:43:32 ◼   ► So Apple is not alone.

00:43:34 ◼   ► And also there's iCloud and Apple Music and I don't think it's fair to describe Apple

00:43:38 ◼   ► as a payment processor when they have an actual music streaming service that appears to be

00:43:46 ◼   ► doing quite well.

00:43:47 ◼   ► And they also have iCloud Drive and they support features like sharing storage and you can

00:43:53 ◼   ► buy multiple tiers of storage and iCloud is going to take on more responsibilities with

00:43:58 ◼   ► iOS 11 considering all the stuff that you can store on iCloud now and sync with iCloud

00:44:03 ◼   ► from messages to your health data. So I don't think it's fair to describe Apple as making

00:44:08 ◼   ► money on services by taking a fee from developers because that is not all they do. I still think

00:44:14 ◼   ► Apple is not, you know, providing the same, in some fields, the same quality services

00:44:21 ◼   ► as Google. So I still think Apple is quite behind Google in terms of the details of some

00:44:28 ◼   ► products. But overall, Apple, I don't think there's any doubt that Apple is embracing

00:44:33 ◼   ► services and charging people money for services from Apple Music to iCloud. And the App Store

00:44:39 ◼   ► is part of that, but I don't think it defines Apple as a services company. And in fact,

00:44:44 ◼   ► I think we're going to see even more services type products from Apple. For example, if

00:44:49 ◼   ► ever do the TV bundle that was rumored for years. That's going to be another. I saw that

00:44:56 ◼   ► on Twitter and I thought it was worth discussing.

00:44:58 ◼   ► Oh, it's good. I think a couple of other things jumped out at me. In the comments, Apple said

00:45:04 ◼   ► that the Apple Watch sales were up 50% year over year. That's a Bezos number because we

00:45:10 ◼   ► don't know what those numbers actually are. It's just that they're up. I wish they would

00:45:19 ◼   ► would give numbers. I think it'd be really interesting to know those numbers

00:45:23 ◼   ► but they lumped the Apple watch in with other products where the

00:45:27 ◼   ► iPod is as well. But clearly the watch is doing well but we don't know how well we

00:45:34 ◼   ► just know you know relative terms. I found that interesting in this quarter

00:45:37 ◼   ► the watch seems like such a holiday item and so if it's up now this much that I

00:45:44 ◼   ► would hope that the holiday quarter would be even better. This comes sort of

00:45:48 ◼   ► it's sort of in the background, we're gonna talk about the iPhone stuff shortly, but it's

00:45:52 ◼   ► sort of in the background is the idea that there's a new watch coming in the fall. I'm

00:45:56 ◼   ► not sure I buy into that. I feel like the watch is a two-year cycle, but if it is, there's

00:46:01 ◼   ► a new watch coming and it's really compelling and they can make enough of them this year.

00:46:05 ◼   ► The holiday quarter could be really big for the Apple Watch. Again, with like air quote

00:46:10 ◼   ► numbers.

00:46:11 ◼   ► If Apple can do the watch with the SIM card this year, I'm totally gonna get another one.

00:46:17 ◼   ► Because I really want the independent watch.

00:46:22 ◼   ► But like you said, I don't know if the watch can be updated on an annual basis.

00:46:27 ◼   ► The rumor – well, not a rumor – what some analysts believe as an estimation is that

00:46:35 ◼   ► the Apple Watch sales are approaching 30 million units to date.

00:46:42 ◼   ► They built this estimation by looking at the other section

00:46:46 ◼   ► of the revenue reported by Apple and basically building trends

00:46:51 ◼   ► for the previous other revenue and then calculating

00:46:55 ◼   ► the difference now that the watch is included

00:46:57 ◼   ► and sort of estimating the units and the revenue

00:47:00 ◼   ► that those generated.

00:47:02 ◼   ► So a bunch of analysts seem to agree

00:47:04 ◼   ► that Apple Watch is now up to 29/30 million units sold

00:47:08 ◼   ► to date, which is a good number.

00:47:10 ◼   ► It is a good number.

00:47:12 ◼   ► The other thing that jumped out at me was the Mac number.

00:47:14 ◼   ► So the sales were flat year over year,

00:47:17 ◼   ► but the revenue is up a percentage.

00:47:20 ◼   ► I forget the exact number, but sort of the op,

00:47:23 ◼   ► sort of like what we're talking about with the iPad,

00:47:26 ◼   ► that it saw lots of growth, but a small increase in revenue.

00:47:30 ◼   ► The Mac was flat, but a little bit more revenue,

00:47:33 ◼   ► and so people are buying slightly more expensive machines.

00:47:37 ◼   ► I think that's continuing to be the new MacBook Pro.

00:47:40 ◼   ► They do have a cheaper escape version now

00:47:42 ◼   ► with the no touch bar, but overall,

00:47:44 ◼   ► like the entry, you know, 15 inch is more than it used to be

00:47:49 ◼   ► to kind of decent 13 inches more than it used to be.

00:47:51 ◼   ► So I still think that MacBook Pro is carrying that number.

00:47:54 ◼   ► They spoke on the call about the iMac Pro.

00:47:57 ◼   ► I think that there are definitely people holding off

00:47:59 ◼   ► on a new iMac right now for the iMac Pro.

00:48:03 ◼   ► And so-- - Oh yeah, for sure.

00:48:04 ◼   ► - Once that lands the end of this year,

00:48:06 ◼   ► which is really coming up, it's August already,

00:48:08 ◼   ► then I expect the Mac number,

00:48:10 ◼   ► If they can sell them in that quarter

00:48:12 ◼   ► and it doesn't slip until calendar 2018,

00:48:15 ◼   ► I would expect the Mac to finish the year strong

00:48:17 ◼   ► with the iMac Pro, 'cause it's gonna be so expensive.

00:48:19 ◼   ► And I think there are definitely people,

00:48:22 ◼   ► almost everyone I've talked to who does what we do,

00:48:25 ◼   ► like if they work on a Mac, most of them have iMacs,

00:48:27 ◼   ► and most of them are the year of the 2015 or older.

00:48:31 ◼   ► I know a bunch of people who are super pumped

00:48:34 ◼   ► for the iMac Pro.

00:48:35 ◼   ► - There's a pent up demand for the iMac Pro,

00:48:40 ◼   ► and when that happens, it's gonna generate a bump

00:48:43 ◼   ► in the MAC revenue for sure.

00:48:44 ◼   ► - Yeah. - So I think you're right.

00:48:45 ◼   ► - So that'll be fun to look out for.

00:48:47 ◼   ► But I mean, all in all, a good quarter,

00:48:49 ◼   ► I know we don't talk a lot about the results on this show,

00:48:51 ◼   ► but I think it's interesting talking about the products

00:48:53 ◼   ► kind of embedded in the results.

00:48:55 ◼   ► So. - Yeah, I think so.

00:48:57 ◼   ► - Tim also mentioned that they're a little bit of a pause

00:49:00 ◼   ► on iPhone sales, and we're gonna talk about that

00:49:02 ◼   ► and why that may be after this last break.

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00:51:09 ◼   ► This story, man.

00:51:14 ◼   ► It's the story of the year so far, I think.

00:51:17 ◼   ► I think when we get to the end of the year, we do our year roundup.

00:51:20 ◼   ► We're going to talk about this.

00:51:22 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:51:23 ◼   ► last week, a firmware bundle for the HomePod was posted to the Apple developer site.

00:51:30 ◼   ► Uh, parentheses, LOL.

00:51:34 ◼   ► It was downloaded as you might imagine, and a bunch of stuff came to light and we're going

00:51:39 ◼   ► to get into that and, uh, and get into the work some people have been doing on it, but

00:51:43 ◼   ► it blows my mind that this happened.

00:51:45 ◼   ► Like it seems like a, a pretty, a pretty big error on Apple's part.

00:51:50 ◼   ► It's not great.

00:51:53 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:51:55 ◼   ► Again, you've got people downloading this firmware files all the time.

00:52:02 ◼   ► Especially, you know, I subscribe for example to Twitter accounts and other notification

00:52:08 ◼   ► services that they monitor the Apple servers, like the developer servers, and they alert

00:52:13 ◼   ► you every time there's a new firmware, like an OTA download that you can get.

00:52:19 ◼   ► That happens for the major releases, that happens for beta seeds, that go out to developers,

00:52:26 ◼   ► that happens for public betas.

00:52:28 ◼   ► Anything that is on Apple CDN you can download.

00:52:31 ◼   ► And there are tools, to give you some context, especially to our listeners, there are tools

00:52:36 ◼   ► that allow you to download the IPSW file that is a firmware for Apple devices and to sort

00:52:43 ◼   ► of decompress it and look inside the operating system itself to look at the APIs, to look

00:52:51 ◼   ► at the code that Apple writes and all the assets, the references, all the symbols that

00:52:59 ◼   ► you have like DOS, you can decompress it, you can unload everything that is in there

00:53:06 ◼   ► and take a look. And very smart people do this all the time and this time they got lucky

00:53:13 ◼   ► because this firmware was not supposed to be released now.

00:53:18 ◼   ► So there's a link by John Gruber on during Fireball and he quickly mentions that he heard

00:53:25 ◼   ► that the HomePod firmware, Apple was getting ready to seed a firmware update to a bunch

00:53:35 ◼   ► of employees.

00:53:37 ◼   ► And that's also what I heard, like from a bunch of folks, that there was supposed to

00:53:43 ◼   ► be a software update for HomePod units that are currently being tested by Apple employees.

00:53:51 ◼   ► And somewhere along that process, something happened.

00:53:55 ◼   ► And that firmware ended up on the public server instead of the, I assume instead of the employee-only

00:54:05 ◼   ► one.

00:54:06 ◼   ► And I don't know how that happened.

00:54:08 ◼   ► There can be human error, there can be a service problem, I don't know the details.

00:54:14 ◼   ► But that seems to be the backstory that is sort of circulating at the moment.

00:54:21 ◼   ► And of course, Apple is not commenting on any of this, but it's fun to speculate.

00:54:25 ◼   ► Anyway, Stephen, give us the summary of what was in there, because it's quite a lot of

00:54:32 ◼   ► stuff.

00:54:33 ◼   ► It's quite a lot of stuff.

00:54:34 ◼   ► So let's talk about the HomePod first, because the phone stuff I think is more immediately

00:54:41 ◼   ► interesting.

00:54:42 ◼   ► There's a YouTube video floating around of all the sound effects the HomePod makes.

00:54:45 ◼   ► I listen to all of them.

00:54:47 ◼   ► I think they're all lovely.

00:54:48 ◼   ► Good job, sound designers.

00:54:50 ◼   ► That's on YouTube now.

00:54:51 ◼   ► So sorry.

00:54:53 ◼   ► Also about the HomePod talks about the...

00:54:57 ◼   ► There's a lot of debate about the display at the top of the HomePod.

00:55:00 ◼   ► It seems like it's 272 by 340 pixels.

00:55:05 ◼   ► It's under a diffuser, so it's a very low res, very simple screen, maybe even more like

00:55:12 ◼   ► an LED matrix, but the diffuser sort of softens it.

00:55:15 ◼   ► So that was in the code.

00:55:17 ◼   ► There's also some information about, it reports to the app store, or it reports to itself

00:55:23 ◼   ► that it's an iPhone SE, but there's no infrastructure right now for like app

00:55:29 ◼   ► extensions or third-party apps, which is in line with what Apple told us, right?

00:55:34 ◼   ► There's no third-party apps on this thing yet, but so we're learning a lot

00:55:40 ◼   ► about the device and that's to be expected, right? You'd expect that the

00:55:42 ◼   ► the firmware for a device talks about the device, so we know a few more things.

00:55:46 ◼   ► But what's really interesting, the way the work of like Steven Trout Smith,

00:55:51 ◼   ► By the way, a link to his Patreon will be in our show notes.

00:55:57 ◼   ► Steve is just like a genuinely nice human being.

00:55:59 ◼   ► I've gotten to know him a little bit over the last year.

00:56:02 ◼   ► He's an incredible guy, super smart, and if you're interested in this stuff, his Patreon

00:56:07 ◼   ► is just a wealth of information.

00:56:10 ◼   ► So there'll be a link to that in the show notes, you should go check it out.

00:56:13 ◼   ► But what he dug up about this next iPhone is pretty incredible.

00:56:17 ◼   ► So the code name or the reference is D22,

00:56:20 ◼   ► something Gruber confirmed also with the nickname of Ferrari,

00:56:26 ◼   ► which I kinda like.

00:56:27 ◼   ► The display resolution is known now to be 1125 by 2436.

00:56:33 ◼   ► That would allow if my math is right native at 3x,

00:56:39 ◼   ► so like the 6, 6S, and 7+ models are 3x,

00:56:45 ◼   ► they're scaling off screen and then sort of smashing it down.

00:56:48 ◼   ► This would be all native.

00:56:51 ◼   ► It has-- in the code, there's a lot about the design,

00:56:57 ◼   ► and then there's a lot about the face ID.

00:57:00 ◼   ► Did you see this artwork he dug up for the way the phone looks?

00:57:04 ◼   ► Yeah, and I'm not sure what you think.

00:57:08 ◼   ► So we should describe it.

00:57:11 ◼   ► It's exactly what you think it is,

00:57:13 ◼   ► where it is-- exactly what we talked about, very thin

00:57:15 ◼   ► bezels with some sort of cutout at the top for the cameras

00:57:20 ◼   ► and the earpiece that sort of pushes down into the display

00:57:25 ◼   ► area, and the display sort of comes up around it.

00:57:27 ◼   ► It's kind of hard to explain, but if you

00:57:30 ◼   ► think about what we've been talking about for months,

00:57:32 ◼   ► this basically confirms it.

00:57:35 ◼   ► Yeah, and actually, before we start

00:57:37 ◼   ► talking about all of these features, as you mentioned,

00:57:40 ◼   ► there is no IPSW file for the HomePod firmware,

00:57:45 ◼   ► like in the traditional sense.

00:57:48 ◼   ► Basically what these people caught was an OTA update

00:57:52 ◼   ► that hit the Apple server.

00:57:55 ◼   ► And it's like when you see like an OTA update

00:57:59 ◼   ► for beta two to beta three, for example.

00:58:01 ◼   ► And that goes back to the idea that it was supposed to be

00:58:06 ◼   ► software update for Apple folks who already have a HomePod,

00:58:11 ◼   ► and they were going to be able to update the software

00:58:14 ◼   ► to a new version.

00:58:15 ◼   ► So there's not like an IPSW file that you download,

00:58:19 ◼   ► like those files that you use to restore an iPhone with iTunes.

00:58:23 ◼   ► But there is still an OTA download

00:58:26 ◼   ► that these people have managed to decompress and inspect.

00:58:29 ◼   ► That makes more sense.

00:58:30 ◼   ► OK.

00:58:31 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:58:31 ◼   ► Got it.

00:58:32 ◼   ► So let's talk about the new design.

00:58:37 ◼   ► Like, there were speculation and rumors about the fact

00:58:43 ◼   ► that Apple was going to go with this sort of top-notch design.

00:58:48 ◼   ► I suppose if they really go with this design,

00:58:51 ◼   ► they're going to have some top-notch jokes

00:58:53 ◼   ► about the iPhone.

00:58:54 ◼   ► Oh, no.

00:58:56 ◼   ► If Phil Shiller has an opportunity to make a dad joke,

00:58:58 ◼   ► he's going to take the opportunity.

00:58:59 ◼   ► Right?

00:58:59 ◼   ► Like, he's not going to let that go by.

00:59:01 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:59:02 ◼   ► Yeah, they're going to put top notch in there somewhere.

00:59:05 ◼   ► Oh, no doubt.

00:59:08 ◼   ► My big question right now is, how does Apple

00:59:11 ◼   ► deal with the status bar?

00:59:13 ◼   ► Because you've got these two ears floating at the top.

00:59:18 ◼   ► And ideally, based on also what Steve found in the code,

00:59:23 ◼   ► there should be a way for iOS to split the status bar in two.

00:59:29 ◼   ► So to have two halves of the status bar, one at the left, possibly with the signal and

00:59:34 ◼   ► Wi-Fi and at the right with everything else.

00:59:38 ◼   ► My question is, is the status bar integrated with the rest of the title bar at the bottom

00:59:44 ◼   ► of the app or is it like a black bar that kind of blends in with the top notch, with

00:59:51 ◼   ► the black frame of the phone?

00:59:53 ◼   ► And because it's an OLED screen, the black of the little ears looks just like the black

00:59:59 ◼   ► of the device itself.

01:00:02 ◼   ► Or is it more like an edge-to-edge full bleed design where the content appears to go all

01:00:10 ◼   ► the way up to the corners, and of course at the bottom where there's the function area

01:00:14 ◼   ► supposedly.

01:00:16 ◼   ► So it'll be interesting to see what kind of approach Apple takes.

01:00:18 ◼   ► the status bar stays up at the top and it integrates with the content of apps and like

01:00:23 ◼   ► title bars, especially with the new iOS 11 design, or if Apple kind of returns to the

01:00:28 ◼   ► old black stars bar style of iOS 5, for example, and there's like a distinct separation between

01:00:34 ◼   ► app content and status bar. And I don't know what to think at this point. I don't know

01:00:39 ◼   ► what I prefer. I was looking at some mockups that were going around on Twitter. I'm not

01:00:43 ◼   ► sure what I prefer.

01:00:44 ◼   ► I'm with you. I'm a little torn. It looks weird to have like content or display around that notch, but

01:00:50 ◼   ► It's only weird for the first few days and then to get used to it

01:00:54 ◼   ► There's a blog post by Alan Pike who he really breaks into breaks us down talks about the screen resolution

01:01:01 ◼   ► Talks about the opportunity for Apple to do stuff

01:01:04 ◼   ► You know at the bottom of the screen and he has some screenshots there that maybe iOS

01:01:10 ◼   ► 11th design makes more sense on a phone like this

01:01:14 ◼   ► Right. It's all very it's all very interesting

01:01:17 ◼   ► Yeah, because you basically with iOS 11 you get the new large title bar option

01:01:22 ◼   ► It's not enforced on developers like it's an option you can enable it or you can keep the normal title bars for context

01:01:30 ◼   ► The large title bar is the style that you get in Apple music

01:01:33 ◼   ► In Apple news or you know all the most of the system apps in the iOS 11 beta

01:01:39 ◼   ► So developers can also use that option.

01:01:42 ◼   ► And if you consider how weird it looks on existing devices, because it creates this

01:01:47 ◼   ► big gap, you know, on top of the title, that gap makes it ideal for integrating it with

01:01:58 ◼   ► the status bar somehow, or sort of putting the clock maybe in the center of that gap

01:02:05 ◼   ► underneath the notch.

01:02:07 ◼   ► That's basically the mockups that are going around.

01:02:10 ◼   ► Or there's another idea of moving some information, some controls from the top bar to the bottom.

01:02:17 ◼   ► So if the next iPhone gets a function area where the virtual home button, which by the

01:02:23 ◼   ► way in the system is, in the firmware for the HomePod is called the home indicator because

01:02:30 ◼   ► it's no longer a home button.

01:02:34 ◼   ► the idea of putting controls next to the home button, so like the controls to navigate back,

01:02:41 ◼   ► or maybe like the plus button that you normally see in the top right, or the compose button

01:02:46 ◼   ► for example, that is usually in the top right, those could leave at the bottom, next to the

01:02:51 ◼   ► home button, and they would be contextual based on the app that you're using.

01:02:55 ◼   ► And developers wouldn't have to tweak, I guess, because the API could fall back, mostly gracefully,

01:03:03 ◼   ► to floating those controls at the bottom.

01:03:07 ◼   ► And by the way, there's a trend of putting these controls at the bottom, it's called

01:03:10 ◼   ► reach navigation.

01:03:11 ◼   ► I had a link on Mac stories a few weeks ago of helping interactions with these big phones

01:03:18 ◼   ► that we have now by moving controls to the bottom.

01:03:21 ◼   ► So that would be, I guess, comfortable to use.

01:03:25 ◼   ► So take a look at those links, there's a bunch of mockups that people are imagining and it's

01:03:28 ◼   ► It's fun to speculate, even if we have what should be the final design, we have no idea

01:03:35 ◼   ► what the software is going to be like.

01:03:36 ◼   ► And that is fascinating for me at this point.

01:03:39 ◼   ► But in terms of hardware and what this phone is going to do for us, the big point is, it

01:03:45 ◼   ► seems the confirmed lack of any Touch ID on this phone.

01:03:50 ◼   ► And it appears that Apple is going all in on face recognition through this system that

01:03:54 ◼   ► that is code named "Pearl" and that is referenced multiple times on the system in the Biometric

01:03:59 ◼   ► Kit framework. So this face authentication that is going to replace Touch ID. Steve Trotton-Smith

01:04:07 ◼   ► couldn't find any references to Touch ID, so let's just assume that Touch ID is not

01:04:11 ◼   ► there. It's not in the back, it's not under the display. And it seems like Apple is gearing

01:04:17 ◼   ► up to offer some major additions to the camera. So there's going to be a front-facing 3D

01:04:23 ◼   ► sensing camera that can use face authentication to unlock the phone and supposedly authenticate

01:04:31 ◼   ► passwords into apps and Apple Pay for payments. But also there's going to be support for

01:04:37 ◼   ► ARKit because there's a 3D sensing camera. It can do ARKit and if you look at the code

01:04:45 ◼   ► that Steve and the other guy, Guillermo Rambo, I think, what a name Rambo by the way, for

01:04:53 ◼   ► on to leak the next iPhone software. You know, the Rambo leak. That's amazing.

01:05:01 ◼   ► So if you look at the APIs that they offered screenshots, it seems like ARKit is going to gain

01:05:08 ◼   ► some form of face knowledge, like it can assemble the geometry of your face.

01:05:17 ◼   ► And that's going to be useful to, for example, to superimpose graphics, for example, to change

01:05:24 ◼   ► the background of, you know, of your actual, for example, your selfie.

01:05:29 ◼   ► You're going to take a selfie, you can change the background.

01:05:32 ◼   ► And it's sort of what you're getting with the depth API in iOS 11, where on the iPhone

01:05:38 ◼   ► 7 Plus, if you take a photo on iOS 11, developers can make photo editing apps to change the

01:05:43 ◼   ► depth map of the photo.

01:05:46 ◼   ► the same but for selfies, for the front-facing camera. So you take a sort of like photo booth

01:05:51 ◼   ► on the Mac but done much better using the ARKit, I guess. And also the idea of this

01:05:58 ◼   ► is a recent discovery. There's going to be a, it appears in the code, there's a reference

01:06:04 ◼   ► to a feature called the SmartCam. And the SmartCam, it seems it can recognize various

01:06:09 ◼   ► types of scenery and context. So if you take a look at the screenshots, there's like scene,

01:06:15 ◼   ► pet or seen sky or seen foliage or fireworks. So think of the knowledge that Photos has

01:06:24 ◼   ► in the Photos app, but apply that to the camera in real time. It could be fun to imagine like

01:06:31 ◼   ► having a smart cam that can focus automatically on babies or on pets or understand what the

01:06:38 ◼   ► the background is and for example adjust exposure in real time because it

01:06:44 ◼   ► understands that's the sky and that's a tree you know like in real time that

01:06:49 ◼   ► could be pretty cool

01:06:50 ◼   ► yeah point shoot cameras even and even nicer cameras have modes you can put

01:06:55 ◼   ► them in but you're like I am shooting fireworks or hey I'm outdoors or

01:06:59 ◼   ► whatever but they're sort of dumb right because they don't have that they have

01:07:03 ◼   ► some parameters they change but they're not adaptive to what's going on where

01:07:07 ◼   ► this sort of technology can take that further and say, hey, I'm shooting this sort of thing,

01:07:11 ◼   ► but take all the information you know and all the information you're gathering in real

01:07:13 ◼   ► time and make decisions about the picture I'm getting ready to take. That is super exciting

01:07:19 ◼   ► to me.

01:07:20 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah. I think it is very exciting to have this real time AI like applied to this,

01:07:28 ◼   ► to the app that millions of people use every day, which is the camera. If it really works,

01:07:33 ◼   ► could be pretty awesome. And finally, moving to the bottom of the phone to speculate on

01:07:39 ◼   ► the code that was found. It doesn't seem like the function area where the home indicator

01:07:45 ◼   ► is gonna be. It doesn't seem like it's gonna be programmable by developers because Steve

01:07:51 ◼   ► Transmit couldn't find APIs for developers to put custom controls in there. So I'm curious

01:07:59 ◼   ► to see if Apple is not allowing developers to fully customize that, if it maybe lends

01:08:06 ◼   ► some value to the idea of that is the, you know, on the old iPhones you write the title

01:08:15 ◼   ► bar as usual, but on the new one it goes to the bottom. But what happens, you know, like,

01:08:23 ◼   ► it's gonna be strange if moving from the old generation of iPhones where some stuff is

01:08:29 ◼   ► at the top and then suddenly is at the bottom and there's no home button anymore.

01:08:33 ◼   ► But also what happens to the system keyboard?

01:08:35 ◼   ► Like where is the keyboard displayed?

01:08:38 ◼   ► Is it displayed above the function area?

01:08:40 ◼   ► So if you look at your iPhone now, you have a physical function area, which is, you know,

01:08:45 ◼   ► the bezel where the home button is.

01:08:47 ◼   ► And obviously the keyboard is displayed in the screen where the software can be displayed.

01:08:52 ◼   ► But now if you assume that the bezel is going to be a screen, does the keyboard still sit

01:08:57 ◼   ► on top of the function area or does the keyboard cover the home button? But if the keyboard

01:09:02 ◼   ► covers the home button, then you cannot go home anymore. So we have to assume there's

01:09:07 ◼   ► going to be, this function area is going to be persistent all the time, otherwise it's

01:09:11 ◼   ► just going to be weird. And at this point I wonder, what if we are overthinking all

01:09:17 ◼   ► this and the function area is just going to be black because it looks like an iPhone?

01:09:23 ◼   ► Because we're coming up with all these mockups, like Apple is going to put a touch bar in

01:09:28 ◼   ► there or it's going to be programmable developers, it's going to blend in with the content.

01:09:32 ◼   ► But all the mockups I see of these top bars on top of the function area, or a keyboard

01:09:38 ◼   ► on top of the function area, and it creates this contrast between the two elements on

01:09:43 ◼   ► screen.

01:09:44 ◼   ► Either the mockups are not really done well, or the function area is still just a black

01:09:49 ◼   ► spot for the virtual home button or Apple is clever, more clever than all of us combined

01:09:58 ◼   ► and they devised this amazing design that takes advantage of the fact that it's a screen

01:10:04 ◼   ► but also looks elegant, looks polished, it doesn't look like, it doesn't stick out, you

01:10:08 ◼   ► know, with that virtual home button and the area around it. And this goes back to the

01:10:15 ◼   ► point of "I'm really excited about all this because we know nothing about the software,

01:10:19 ◼   ► we know nothing about the design, we only saw this glyph of what is going to be the

01:10:24 ◼   ► phone with the top notch". And we get these references in the code that was uploaded by

01:10:31 ◼   ► mistaken Apple servers. And we think we know all the features that are going to come out,

01:10:37 ◼   ► But in reality, some people think that these APIs are just written and created just before

01:10:46 ◼   ► the iPhone comes out.

01:10:48 ◼   ► But obviously, there's engineers who have been working on these APIs and this code for

01:10:53 ◼   ► a couple of years, at least.

01:10:56 ◼   ► This has been in the works for such a long time.

01:10:59 ◼   ► And there's a contrast between the work that engineers do that can go on for a really long

01:11:05 ◼   ► time and the executive decisions that can be made at the very last moment. If Tim Cook

01:11:11 ◼   ► decides "We're not going to do the SmartCam", then that code is going to be scrapped, it's

01:11:17 ◼   ► going to be removed and we're not going to have a SmartCam because it doesn't work well.

01:11:21 ◼   ► Or if at the very last moment Craig Federighi says "Nope, drag and drop, it's not going

01:11:25 ◼   ► to be on the iPhone between multiple apps". So finding an API reference is not necessarily

01:11:32 ◼   ► a guarantee for the feature to come out in September. Because features are in the works

01:11:36 ◼   ► for years, but it takes an executive decision on a whim in an afternoon to be pulled. So,

01:11:43 ◼   ► considering all this, the fact that it's still early August and that we only got the rumors

01:11:49 ◼   ► and the glyph and these APIs, we know nothing about the software, that together makes me

01:11:56 ◼   ► super super excited about this iPhone, in a way that I wasn't excited about the iPhone

01:12:00 ◼   ► in years, you know, I feel like the between iOS 11 on the iPad and whatever Apple is doing

01:12:06 ◼   ► with this iPhone Pro iPhone 8, it's gonna be a pretty awesome fall for iOS.

01:12:13 ◼   ► I think so. And you know, I agree with you. I think before this stuff, I was excited about

01:12:18 ◼   ► this iPhone. And yes, leaks do damage the surprise of it. But I'm really excited about

01:12:25 ◼   ► the opportunities Apple and third party developers have

01:12:29 ◼   ► to do with this device.

01:12:30 ◼   ► And it's gonna be a fun, you know,

01:12:35 ◼   ► we're five or six weeks out from the event

01:12:39 ◼   ► and I'm just looking forward to it.

01:12:41 ◼   ► You know, one thing that is interesting

01:12:43 ◼   ► to sort of wrap this stuff up

01:12:45 ◼   ► is there's been this talk about leaks from Apple

01:12:49 ◼   ► come from Apple now, right?

01:12:50 ◼   ► Like you still get supply chain leaks

01:12:52 ◼   ► but they're clamping down on that.

01:12:54 ◼   ► And this is a pretty massive stroke in that column.

01:12:59 ◼   ► - Yeah, well, I think a leak is, you know,

01:13:04 ◼   ► something that is made consciously,

01:13:07 ◼   ► like you want to leak information.

01:13:10 ◼   ► This is just an accident.

01:13:12 ◼   ► - I think it is too.

01:13:13 ◼   ► Yeah, I don't think anybody sat around saying,

01:13:15 ◼   ► oh, I want to do this.

01:13:16 ◼   ► But nevertheless, like the outcome's kind of the same.

01:13:19 ◼   ► - Yes, yes, it is.

01:13:21 ◼   ► - But it's--

01:13:22 ◼   ► Even more so than in the past, because even before, we never got to look at the APIs months

01:13:28 ◼   ► in advance. We never got to look at the code names, you know, months before the event.

01:13:33 ◼   ► So in terms of just the outcome alone, it's even worse than in the past, because before

01:13:39 ◼   ► we had Gurman on 9to5Mac, and we had some cases from the Chinese manufacturers and maybe

01:13:45 ◼   ► some supply chain rumors. But now the new generation of Apple rumors and leaks, you

01:13:51 ◼   ► you know, with Ming-Chu Kuo and, you know, Mecha Takara, the Japanese blog, and, you

01:13:57 ◼   ► know, some rumors on, what's it called, Weibo, you know, the Chinese Twitter. We have those,

01:14:04 ◼   ► but you know, it seems like we're in a different age of Apple rumors. And so this "leak" from

01:14:10 ◼   ► the HomePod firmware sort of restores the previous glory of Apple leaks, you know, because

01:14:17 ◼   ► it's a lot of details and for us it's kind of awesome. I would not say the same for the

01:14:22 ◼   ► people at Apple who worked on this and I cannot imagine you know if this I mean we have to

01:14:27 ◼   ► assume this was an accident so I cannot assume you know if there's anybody responsible for

01:14:32 ◼   ► this like this must have been hell on them so I feel for those people because you know

01:14:37 ◼   ► accidents happen and mistakes can be made and in this case it was a pretty big mistake

01:14:43 ◼   ► So yeah, so that's that.

01:14:47 ◼   ► New design, new features.

01:14:51 ◼   ► One question that came to mind when you were talking about the

01:14:55 ◼   ► IPSW versus the OTA.

01:14:59 ◼   ► Why is this stuff in an update aimed for the HomePod?

01:15:03 ◼   ► So, here's how it works.

01:15:07 ◼   ► The HomePod update

01:15:11 ◼   ► reports version as iOS 11.0.2. So it's two patches ahead of what we are going to get

01:15:21 ◼   ► if we get iOS 11.0 in September. Those are two patches ahead. And the way that these

01:15:28 ◼   ► patches work, they are developed in tandem with the public release. Of course, it's different

01:15:33 ◼   ► teams working on different stuff. For example, you know, some engineers maybe from, let's

01:15:38 ◼   ► say from the drag and drop team, they have already moved on from what is going to be

01:15:43 ◼   ► the public release, and they're now working on the next one.

01:15:46 ◼   ► And there's other engineers who are dealing with the beta and with the feedback and incorporating

01:15:49 ◼   ► the stuff from beta testers and developers.

01:15:53 ◼   ► And there's obviously people who are working on iOS 11.0.1, 0.2, and maybe iOS 11.1 and

01:16:01 ◼   ► 0.2.

01:16:03 ◼   ► And when those updates are seeded to internal testers, so Apple employees, the API references,

01:16:10 ◼   ► the symbols and all the design assets that are normally scrubbed from the developer release

01:16:18 ◼   ► in June, the betas that we get, those things are not removed because it's Apple people.

01:16:28 ◼   ► They are obligated to an NDA.

01:16:29 ◼   ► cannot talk about stuff and they should see stuff because they are testing the HomePod,

01:16:35 ◼   ► they are maybe testing the next iPhone, so they need to see those, they need those features

01:16:39 ◼   ► to be working. And so when a mistake is made like this and when that firmware, you know,

01:16:45 ◼   ► that maybe adds iPhone Pro integration to the HomePod, so Apple was like, "We're gonna

01:16:50 ◼   ► add iPhone Pro integration, so make sure to update your HomePods." And the firmware file

01:16:56 ◼   ► ends up in the wrong directory.

01:16:58 ◼   ► Instead of going to Apple employees,

01:17:00 ◼   ► it goes on to the public.

01:17:02 ◼   ► And of course, you're gonna see all of those things.

01:17:04 ◼   ► You're gonna see all of those APIs,

01:17:05 ◼   ► you're gonna see all of those features.

01:17:07 ◼   ► And the reason why it's in an update,

01:17:11 ◼   ► it's because Apple is obviously ahead of our schedule,

01:17:16 ◼   ► and they're making the next versions of iOS 11 already,

01:17:21 ◼   ► and there's people inside Apple who are testing those.

01:17:24 ◼   ► And to test those, they need to have the features working,

01:17:27 ◼   ► which means no code can be scrapped,

01:17:30 ◼   ► which means if you make a mistake,

01:17:32 ◼   ► everybody's going to see that.

01:17:34 ◼   ► And because there are extraction tools

01:17:36 ◼   ► to decompress and inspect these files,

01:17:39 ◼   ► whether it's a firmware update or an IPSW,

01:17:42 ◼   ► this is the result.

01:17:44 ◼   ► We're now talking about the APIs in August.

01:17:46 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:17:48 ◼   ► - Cool.

01:17:49 ◼   ► Well, I appreciate that explanation.

01:17:52 ◼   ► So if you want to find show notes this week,

01:17:54 ◼   ► you can do so on our website, relay.fm/connected/153.

01:17:59 ◼   ► You can get in touch with us there via email or by Twitter.

01:18:03 ◼   ► The show is at _connectedfm.

01:18:05 ◼   ► Federico is there at Vatici,

01:18:07 ◼   ► and you can find his writing a course at maxstories.net.

01:18:11 ◼   ► Myke will be back next week.

01:18:12 ◼   ► You can find him at @imyke on Twitter.

01:18:15 ◼   ► You can find my writing at 512pixels.net,

01:18:17 ◼   ► and I am @ismh on Twitter.

01:18:19 ◼   ► So I think that's it.

01:18:22 ◼   ► So until next time, Federico, say goodbye.

01:18:25 ◼   ► - Adios, derti. - Adios.

01:18:26 ◼   ► [