153: Top-Notch Phone


00:00:00   (upbeat music)

00:00:02   - Welcome to Connected, episode 153.

00:00:11   This week's show is brought to you by

00:00:12   Squarespace, Hover, and Pingdom.

00:00:14   My name is Stephen Hackett and I'm joined this week

00:00:17   by my co-host, who's now on the coast,

00:00:21   Federico Vittucci.

00:00:22   - Hey Stephen, how are you?

00:00:24   - I'm good.

00:00:25   So we won't give you exact coordinates

00:00:27   unless you just want to,

00:00:28   you're on a summer vacation.

00:00:30   - I literally just came back from the beach.

00:00:34   I'm still on my swimming suit and it's full of sand

00:00:39   and yeah, like came back and said I gotta call Steven

00:00:44   'cause we gotta talk about Apple stuff.

00:00:48   And so the other, so we have a house here,

00:00:51   we have like a summer house that we're renting

00:00:53   for the month of August and there's people outside

00:00:57   coming here, staring at a Google document

00:01:00   with your profile picture, which is very nice, I should say.

00:01:03   But it's only you, there's no mic.

00:01:06   - There's no mic.

00:01:07   So Myke, someone who's been spending some time

00:01:10   in the US this summer, he's traveling today,

00:01:12   but he will be on the show next week,

00:01:16   and on the show on the 15th,

00:01:18   he will be in person with me in my office,

00:01:23   and so that'll be funny of that

00:01:24   to look forward to in two weeks.

00:01:26   If he survives, it will be with you.

00:01:30   Yeah.

00:01:31   If not, it's going to be really weird.

00:01:34   But that's in the future, and we have things to talk about today.

00:01:37   And to talk about things today, first we have to talk about things in the past, and that

00:01:40   is follow-up.

00:01:43   So my Logitech Circle 2 camera finally showed up.

00:01:46   It showed up last week.

00:01:47   Oh, nice.

00:01:48   Remember, it was a pre-order deal, and then mine shipped like three weeks later.

00:01:52   I bought the camera and then I bought the kit

00:01:55   to mount it to the inside of a window

00:01:57   where I wanted to look outside the house,

00:01:59   there was a window, it was like in the perfect spot.

00:02:01   And it's crazy how small this camera is.

00:02:05   So you know, I've got the Canary

00:02:08   and I have a couple nest cams,

00:02:10   but this thing is truly small

00:02:14   and the mounting kit is really clever

00:02:15   so it comes with a mount that you can just

00:02:17   put the power on the back of it

00:02:20   and then you put it in this thing

00:02:21   and it's got super sticky pads and goes onto the window

00:02:25   so it sits flush and so there's no glare or anything around,

00:02:28   which is really nice because their lens is like as close

00:02:30   to the glass as possible.

00:02:32   Does that make sense?

00:02:33   Yeah.

00:02:33   Yeah.

00:02:34   So is this a camera that they promised

00:02:38   you will get HomeKit support later?

00:02:41   Yes.

00:02:42   And I was thinking about this because this, the news,

00:02:47   we talked about this camera before WWDC.

00:02:50   And then at WWDC, Apple said,

00:02:53   we're gonna roll out software certification

00:02:56   for HomeKit devices.

00:02:58   So back when we were talking about this camera,

00:03:01   we were like, how can they add HomeKit support later

00:03:04   if they don't have a chip?

00:03:05   And then at WWDC, Apple comes out and says,

00:03:08   we don't need a chip anymore.

00:03:09   So it seems to me like Logitech knew of course,

00:03:13   ahead of the conference.

00:03:15   And they launched this product with the promise of HomeKit

00:03:18   because they knew Apple was, you know,

00:03:20   gonna roll out software updates to add HomeKit support,

00:03:24   which is nice.

00:03:26   - Yeah, it is.

00:03:26   The app that it comes with is, it's okay.

00:03:31   There's a couple things in there that I don't really like,

00:03:34   as far as like, some of the settings are a little hamfisted.

00:03:37   There's not a lot of finesse that you see in other,

00:03:40   like in the Nest Cam, for instance,

00:03:42   but it's a new product, I think they'll get there.

00:03:44   One thing that's really nice is the timeline view.

00:03:47   So on the right side of the screen,

00:03:49   you have basically a timeline.

00:03:51   You can kind of flick through it and see every time

00:03:53   over the last however many days it is,

00:03:56   that the camera has seen activity.

00:03:59   So if you have notifications off,

00:04:02   or you just kind of want to go,

00:04:05   someone came back earlier, you can scroll back

00:04:07   and they're all marked and you can just tap it

00:04:09   and it plays a little clip.

00:04:10   You can save the clip if you want.

00:04:12   It's all really, like the software,

00:04:14   it's sort of basic in some areas,

00:04:15   but the timeline feature is really good.

00:04:17   I do have a lot of camera apps now,

00:04:21   so I have the Canary app and the Nest Home app

00:04:24   'cause I've got the thermostat as well and now this.

00:04:26   So that's a little funny on one of my home screens,

00:04:30   just a whole row of them.

00:04:32   - You like being watched.

00:04:36   - I like watching, yeah.

00:04:37   So the one thing I didn't anticipate,

00:04:42   and I don't know why I didn't,

00:04:44   My house has storm windows, so I have the regular windows

00:04:46   and there's an air gap and there's the exterior storm

00:04:48   windows, so I have lots of glare on mine.

00:04:50   So I'm kinda working that out,

00:04:53   I may end up moving this thing.

00:04:54   But all in all, I've been happy with it.

00:04:57   I think it does a great job.

00:04:59   And I really think there's modularity,

00:05:02   so you have the window mount, but then you have

00:05:07   other mounts that you can buy or that it comes with

00:05:10   to use the camera in different ways.

00:05:11   have one that's got a battery pack on it. I think that's a really clever way of doing

00:05:17   it. Instead of selling like Nest has the interior and the exterior cameras, this is all sort

00:05:21   of the same little like, to use a hypercritical term, naked robotic core and then you just

00:05:27   put on different attachments to make it work where you want it. I think that's a really

00:05:31   smart approach.

00:05:32   That's nice. Once they do the HomeKit integration, I should probably consider one of these, especially

00:05:39   like because of the, you know, I can put it anywhere. I like that approach, like there's

00:05:45   freedom granted by this modular system and that appeals to me. So once they do the home

00:05:52   kit integration, if it works well, I think I'm gonna, I'm gonna get one of these and

00:05:57   maybe use it outside. I don't know. But basically once you get two dogs, you have the perfect

00:06:02   excuse to buy all the cameras you want because you want to monitor them. And I assume it's

00:06:06   the same with babies. So I'm in the market for more cameras, especially if

00:06:12   they have HomeKit integration, so we'll see. Yeah, so that's that camera.

00:06:20   Thumbs up from me. We have someone asking, asking us to let them know when The

00:06:25   Rock is running for president. He's not yet. Not yet. Not yet, but we'll see.

00:06:29   - Yeah, so this is a funny story.

00:06:34   This came up last week.

00:06:37   So Wink is a, they have an iPhone app,

00:06:41   they have a platform that kind of connects

00:06:42   different smart home things.

00:06:43   So I use it the same way Myke does,

00:06:46   where I can control my Canary camera with my Echo.

00:06:50   So I can tell the Echo, you know,

00:06:51   turn my camera on or off and it can do it.

00:06:53   Wink does a lot of things, but that's what I use it for.

00:06:56   They were like inside of a company called Quirky that was trying to make like smart

00:07:04   connected objects that sort of imploded and then it was bought by Flextronics but now

00:07:09   it's been bought again by our friend, I don't want to say friend of the show, that seems

00:07:14   a bit strong but friend of humanity, Will.I.Am.

00:07:18   So well, okay. So it's just gonna be like, it's just gonna be on Planet of the Apps at

00:07:27   this point.

00:07:28   I mean his company, yeah, I am plus, bought it. I don't really know, so I'm looking at

00:07:34   their website right now. I don't know what they do. Like they have some Bluetooth headphones

00:07:39   here that look sort of ridiculous.

00:07:41   Oh yeah, like the fake beats by other artists. Yeah, there's a bunch of those.

00:07:47   Yeah.

00:07:48   I mean okay, so Will.am's company is getting into home automation because it's the hot

00:07:54   space at the moment.

00:07:57   I don't know because these services that they act as a kind of as a software bridge between

00:08:03   all of these different devices.

00:08:06   I don't know how long they can last for two reasons.

00:08:09   One because most people I think they prefer the native integrations and like using the

00:08:14   native stuff on iOS and Android.

00:08:16   So whatever Google is doing and what Apple is doing with home, it's just a better experience.

00:08:21   You get the Siri integration, you get the native app, you get all the hooks into the

00:08:25   system and it works better than these third-party solutions.

00:08:29   But also because you're building a third-party bridge on top of other services and other

00:08:35   APIs, the moment that something breaks, you're going to have to update your entire platform

00:08:40   and it's going to be a problem because Wink doesn't control all.

00:08:44   Or maybe it doesn't have the same leverage as Apple on companies like Philips for example,

00:08:52   or Honeywell for instance, or what's the name of the other thermostat that is really nice?

00:09:00   The...

00:09:01   The Ecobee.

00:09:02   The Ecobee.

00:09:03   So I think when Apple and Google approach these companies, they're like, "Hey, you've got

00:09:07   to support our framework and use the API and make sure that it works and that you follow

00:09:12   these guidelines and that you support these APIs."

00:09:14   feels to me like these bigger companies they have a stronger leverage and those manufacturers

00:09:20   they tend to follow you know Apple and Google because they're the platform owners but it's

00:09:27   not the same you know this API is breaking the wing support and I mean sure but what

00:09:34   you're gonna do about it. So I don't have any I don't have I feel like this third party

00:09:43   services that connect other third parties, they're going to be short lived and they work

00:09:49   well now, but I wouldn't bet on them for the future, honestly.

00:09:54   No, I agree. And as the built-in stuff just gets better, like with HomeKit being more

00:09:59   reasonable to work with, I think they're writing on the wall. So anyways, well I am. Did not

00:10:05   expect to talk about his company today. I wanted to ask you, like, whatever happened

00:10:09   to Planet of the Apps because we... Beats me. So does anyone know like the first episode

00:10:16   I saw a bunch of people saying episode two is better, episode three is better, but then

00:10:21   it kind of faded into the background. So I don't know, did it ever finish? I don't know,

00:10:26   I thought you were going to finish watching it. Did y'all not keep it up? I didn't, I

00:10:30   didn't finish watching the show at all. Like I watched segments of the first episode because

00:10:36   it just didn't pull me in at all. I'm really excited about the carpool karaoke that Apple

00:10:41   is doing on Apple Music. That one, that show, I'm excited about. And it's launching, I think,

00:10:47   next week on August 8th. Apple had a promo video. So that is looking good. But this planet

00:10:52   of the apps, man, I think, you know, those people that were skeptical ahead of the release,

00:10:58   they were kind of right. It just doesn't feel like a, like a, like a good fit for Apple

00:11:03   and the App Store and maybe the way that it was promoted also was doomed to fail. I don't

00:11:09   think we'll see another experiment like this in terms of Apple doing fake reality TV.

00:11:16   Yeah, I think I agree with you on all that. The promo for Carpool Carrique was a lot of

00:11:23   fun. It was fun to watch and I think I'm looking forward to checking the first episode of that

00:11:30   out. Maybe we'll do that for next week's show probably.

00:11:32   Yeah, but even thematically, you know, it's such a better fit for Apple Music to have a TV show about music inside the streaming services

00:11:40   you know that you pay for. That's a great idea. So we'll see how it goes.

00:11:44   So this week's episode is brought to you by

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00:13:09   support for connected. We thank you to Squarespace for their support of this

00:13:12   show. Squarespace, make your next move, make your next website. So Stephen are you

00:13:19   sad this week? A little bit. So last week it was a Thursday I think, the

00:13:30   27th, someone noticed that apple.com/iPod just redirected to apple.com/iPodTouch

00:13:39   and in the store the iPod Nano and iPod Shuffle cannot be found. About an hour

00:13:45   later Apple issued a statement to some members of the press there was no

00:13:50   press release or anything basically saying they were simplifying their iPod

00:13:54   lineup with the updated the iPod touch storage and pricing and discontinuing

00:14:00   the shuffle and Anno and now they're gone they're gone Federico. That is that

00:14:03   is kind of sad like what a subtle way to go out you know like not with a bang but

00:14:11   with a whimper. That's a solid quote. It's a good job. I think it's, I mean, it's to

00:14:18   be expected at this point. Like obviously most people are listening to music either

00:14:22   on YouTube or Apple Music or Spotify. Spotify, by the way, announced they have, I think,

00:14:28   60 million subscribers. So that's pretty awesome. Yeah, that's a lot of people. And it's, it's,

00:14:34   it's clear that the, the general market is going into that direction of paying for streaming

00:14:41   and I know we talked about this before there's still space for classic music

00:14:46   players especially because they just work right you don't have to worry about

00:14:50   cellular connections you don't have to worry about storage because what you pay

00:14:54   for is the storage you have and then you put songs in there and you're done but

00:14:59   most people do not listen to music that way anymore and I know that for a long

00:15:05   time you've been one of those people longer than Myke and I have for sure. So how do you

00:15:13   feel about the classic iPod, the notion of the classic iPod going away?

00:15:20   I mean I'm fully aware that the reality you outlined is what's true, that people are streaming

00:15:26   music and listening on their iPhones and like I have an iPod that I'll travel with some

00:15:31   but I don't listen to music on an iPod on a regular basis. I still use iTunes on a regular

00:15:35   which I think we're gonna talk about in a minute.

00:15:38   But I think a lot of people saw this news

00:15:41   and were surprised that it hadn't happened already.

00:15:44   Some people on Twitter were like,

00:15:46   "Wait, they hadn't done this already?"

00:15:48   And some comments under my YouTube video

00:15:51   said the same thing, which I just found surprising.

00:15:53   So I don't know why the time is now.

00:15:56   Maybe they're just sort of cleaning up

00:15:59   in advance of the HomePod.

00:16:00   Maybe they had some sort of limited quantity left

00:16:05   and they've reached the end of that quantity

00:16:07   and now it's just done.

00:16:08   I do think there is still room

00:16:12   for something like the Shuffle

00:16:14   and I think a lot of people,

00:16:17   when they heard me say that,

00:16:18   responded with the Apple Watch.

00:16:20   And so last night I just went to Twitter

00:16:22   with the show account and asked people,

00:16:24   "Do you listen to music that you sync to your Apple Watch?"

00:16:28   And we got a bunch of replies and a bunch of people do it

00:16:31   and a bunch of people don't do it.

00:16:34   I found it really interesting.

00:16:35   The people who do seem really excited about it,

00:16:38   and then I think a lot of people are like me,

00:16:40   when they go for a run or for a bike ride,

00:16:43   they're gonna have their phone anyways,

00:16:45   and so the watch hasn't become important enough

00:16:49   or capable enough to stand on its own for them

00:16:51   so that they're not using the iPod functionality

00:16:55   in the watch, which I found really interesting.

00:16:57   And I was curious what you do.

00:16:58   Have you synced or listened to music just on your watch?

00:17:01   I think the point for me is I have synced music, but the process is so invisible after

00:17:09   you set it up. I don't even know if I'm streaming from the iPhone or the watch. I guess if I

00:17:16   start music from the watch itself and that playlist happens to be downloaded, then it's

00:17:21   streaming music from my watch. But I think I have done this before, like when I was working

00:17:27   now for example and my phone was in my house but I don't think I even thought about it

00:17:34   like it just happened and maybe I am one of those users after all I just haven't thought

00:17:41   about it because I set it up months ago like I picked a bunch of playlists that I want

00:17:47   to be available on my watch I think that's what I did and then I just without thinking

00:17:53   about it I put on my AirPods and the watch and before starting a workout I hit play in

00:17:57   the music app and yeah so I guess I am a user of that not that often but I think it worked

00:18:06   pretty well so I didn't notice anything weird so yeah I guess I do use it.

00:18:11   Yeah I agree with you the whole mechanism for syncing music to the watch or playing

00:18:16   music back on the watch making sure your AirPods are paired all of that could be better and

00:18:23   But all that said, my point of something like the Shuffle

00:18:27   still has room in this world with something super small,

00:18:29   you just clip it on, it doesn't weigh anything,

00:18:31   you can just go.

00:18:32   Like the watch is a better version of that

00:18:33   'cause you're already wearing it if you own one

00:18:36   and you don't have to have wired headphones

00:18:37   'cause they work with AirPods.

00:18:38   And so I think the watch hopefully over time

00:18:41   will take over that role and for me,

00:18:43   once it can do sailor stuff, I'll leave my phone behind.

00:18:46   - Yeah.

00:18:47   - Which we've talked about length in the past.

00:18:48   So I think this whole story is like,

00:18:51   it's surprising it took so long,

00:18:53   It makes total sense that they did it.

00:18:55   And it's, you know, I played up,

00:18:58   like if you watch my video, like it's intentionally sad.

00:19:01   Like the piano music is really sad.

00:19:03   - It's very sad.

00:19:04   It's very sad when the iPod kind of trips over

00:19:08   because it's kind of funny.

00:19:10   I thought that was like top notch movie moment in the video.

00:19:15   Like super sad, super sort of nostalgic.

00:19:18   And that was really solid work.

00:19:22   The hardest part of that was speaking

00:19:24   in such a monotone voice.

00:19:25   Like I shot that like six times.

00:19:27   Like I kept wanting to have inflection and be myself.

00:19:32   And it's like, no, you have to talk.

00:19:33   - Be emotional.

00:19:34   - Very quietly.

00:19:36   But that's played up in the video, right?

00:19:40   I think there are people,

00:19:41   like I did hear from people who ran out

00:19:43   and bought a Shuffle or bought a Nano.

00:19:45   I think maybe even now,

00:19:46   you can still get one if they're in stores.

00:19:49   'Cause some people do want them,

00:19:50   but clearly the era of the iPod is over, obviously.

00:19:55   - Yeah, and speaking about the watch, I think,

00:19:58   I mean, besides cellular connection,

00:20:00   so if the watch ever gets a SIM card

00:20:02   and I can put a SIM in there

00:20:04   and I can stream music wherever I am,

00:20:07   that's gonna be awesome,

00:20:08   because I can just walk around, pick a song,

00:20:11   maybe it doesn't have to be synced,

00:20:12   I don't even have to know,

00:20:13   and it goes straight to my AirPods

00:20:15   or maybe even to my car's Bluetooth.

00:20:18   That could be an idea.

00:20:19   So that's gonna be great.

00:20:20   But I think also there should be a way on the iPhone, so when you're using the music app,

00:20:26   I would like to have like a button that says "send this album" or "send this playlist to the watch"

00:20:32   and like you directly from the music app on the phone, so you don't have to go into the watch app,

00:20:38   nobody uses the watch app, besides to do settings and you know, setup.

00:20:42   But I think to have contextual features, sort of like when using TestFlight,

00:20:48   And from TestFlight itself, you can flip a toggle and you put the app of that iPhone

00:20:54   app on the watch.

00:20:55   I would like to have that kind of toggle in music to say download this album or playlist

00:21:01   or whatever on the watch.

00:21:03   And if you combine that with cellular and if you combine that also with possibly increased

00:21:09   independency from the iPhone.

00:21:11   So if the watch becomes more independent from the iPhone, if Siri doesn't have to go back

00:21:18   and forth, jump back and forth between the iPhone to answer questions and to do the processing.

00:21:23   So if the watch gets serious processing features, like it can do more directly on the chip inside

00:21:29   the watch, you're basically going to have a true wearable device that doesn't require

00:21:35   an iPhone. It can still communicate with the iPhone, but you can also use it on your own.

00:21:40   And that kind of becomes the future of the iPod in a way. It is truly a pod that is always

00:21:45   with you and it doesn't need a bridge to iTunes or to the iPhone. So that would be

00:21:51   amazing, honestly.

00:21:54   Yeah, it kind of lives up to that promise of the iPod.

00:21:58   Yeah.

00:21:58   Like in a more full way, right? Like the iPod you always had to have in your pocket or make

00:22:02   sure you had it on you, right? Or you left it in your car or something. And like my watch,

00:22:07   I get up and I put it on and I take it off before bed and it's with me all day and I

00:22:13   and I don't have to think about it.

00:22:15   Now of course most of us are that way with our phones too,

00:22:18   but the watch is like one step further that,

00:22:20   you know, if I go out and do something physical,

00:22:23   it may be the only device I have with me.

00:22:26   And I agree with you, I think the idea of having

00:22:28   that toggle in the music app is brilliant.

00:22:31   Because I mean, when I upgraded watches earlier this year,

00:22:35   you know, I keep a playlist of like,

00:22:37   I call it like my reserve playlist of like,

00:22:39   if I'm stranded somewhere and just wanna listen

00:22:40   to something, like just a couple of albums

00:22:42   I really care about and I had to like sit down and remember how to do it like I do this stuff for a living

00:22:48   Right. It's like where like how do I get music on this thing?

00:22:51   right

00:22:51   like you have to have a playlist set up and you have to go to the watch app and find the playlist and then it

00:22:55   Takes approximately 200 years to sync it all all that could be better and I think though I really think they'll get there

00:23:02   You know, I don't know if they're ever gonna have the whole Apple music client on the watch

00:23:06   I kind of hope not but I think it should definitely be easier

00:23:08   Like the watch should be a destination for a song that you're playing with right now like

00:23:12   There's like the share sheet you can send stuff around the watch should be

00:23:16   At the end of one of those commands, I think

00:23:19   Yeah, especially in iOS 11 like we're seeing some of these ideas like in photos. There's now on the iPhone

00:23:26   There's now an extension that when you when you share a photo. There's a button in the bottom row that says

00:23:33   Use as watch face and it's kind of same idea like taking

00:23:38   content, such an awful word, but taking stuff from the iPhone and offering like contextual

00:23:46   shortcuts to say, also put these on the watch because it's, you know, it's a shortcut to

00:23:54   an object that is always with us, but you don't want to spend time setting everything

00:23:59   up from scratch. So I think the more iOS moves in this direction are offering options and

00:24:05   shortcuts and like quick ways to take what is on the phone and put it on the

00:24:10   watch that's gonna be so useful and especially you know because the watch is

00:24:15   still not independent from the iPhone so we need more of these options I think

00:24:19   yeah no totally agree I'd like to see them push that forward but to back up a

00:24:26   little bit from we talked about this leaves a big iTunes shaped question on

00:24:31   on the table.

00:24:32   So, I don't know if people know this,

00:24:34   so I have like the very first iPod, the 2001 iPod,

00:24:37   that still syncs with iTunes today.

00:24:39   Like you have to have like Firewire 400 to 800,

00:24:42   a Thunderbolt, but if you can physically hook it up,

00:24:44   it still syncs, like all that junk is still in iTunes.

00:24:47   And some of us, you know, I still sing music to my phone

00:24:51   over USB even though more and more I feel the call

00:24:54   of Spotify, but all that stuff is like wrapped up in iTunes

00:25:00   and iTunes on the Mac, let alone Windows, is aging,

00:25:04   and if you're an Apple Music subscriber,

00:25:07   it's actually kind of confusing in places,

00:25:09   and it's just, it's an old app that feels increasingly

00:25:13   out of date and sort of out of context

00:25:17   with everything else that they're doing.

00:25:18   Like if you look at media management in iTunes,

00:25:21   and you look at the new TV app on iOS,

00:25:24   there are worlds of difference,

00:25:26   and the TV app is a lot better in a lot of ways.

00:25:29   And I wonder if part of this is, with an eye cut to the future where iTunes is marked as

00:25:35   legacy and replaced with something slowly, and that if they replace it with something,

00:25:40   it has none of that syncing stuff in it, right?

00:25:43   The people like me who sync music to their phones even, you know, we're gonna get caught

00:25:46   up in this and, hey, you know, this new app, you have local music, you have Apple Music

00:25:51   Music, Apple Music Music, and that's it.

00:25:55   And if you still want syncing, iTunes is still over here, we'll support it for a couple,

00:25:58   you know, OS releases, but I can't help but wonder

00:26:01   if this is the beginning of a move in that direction.

00:26:03   - Yeah, I mean--

00:26:04   - It's time, it's time, right?

00:26:06   Like, it's time.

00:26:07   - Yeah, I guess so, like, just pull the trigger

00:26:11   and split up iTunes in multiple apps,

00:26:13   offer like an actual Apple Music client on the Mac.

00:26:17   I was trying to use Apple Music on my Mac a few days ago,

00:26:21   so I was about to record a show,

00:26:22   and I was early, so I had like 10 minutes.

00:26:25   I was like, you know what, I'm gonna listen to a song.

00:26:27   So I click on the iTunes icon.

00:26:30   And let aside the fact that you gotta deal with the iTunes UI, like the entire store

00:26:37   navigation, but also like I picked a song in Apple Music and then, you know, on iOS

00:26:44   when you're listening to a song and you want to jump to the full album, you can click on

00:26:47   the, you can tap on the song name or the artist's name and you jump into the, like the parent

00:26:54   view of the album that contains the song. And I couldn't figure out how to do the

00:26:59   same on the Mac. So it's like I was clicking around and like, I don't know how to get

00:27:03   from a single to the full album. I have no idea. And that's because they sort of brought

00:27:10   Apple Music into iTunes, but they're still constrained by the entire paradigms and the

00:27:17   UI metaphors that iTunes uses. So honestly, at this point, I think Apple is doing a disservice

00:27:23   to the people who pay for Apple Music by not offering a native client on the Mac and just

00:27:29   make it a feature of iTunes because it's just so complex and it's always been complex but

00:27:36   at this point it's just ridiculous. You've got TV shows and podcasts and Apple Music

00:27:39   in there. It doesn't make sense anymore. And now that you don't have classic iPods anymore,

00:27:44   I think it's the right moment to, you know, it's been a good run, iTunes, but it's time

00:27:50   to move on.

00:27:51   Agreed. I think even those of us who have a lot of local music and big

00:27:56   libraries, I agree with you. We have a family iTunes that I have set up

00:28:02   to automatically download anything we purchase, but movies are in there, TV

00:28:05   shows are in there for the whole family, and that library is huge. I mean,

00:28:10   who knows how many movies and TV shows in it. Anytime I have to do

00:28:13   anything in it, and it's on a machine that's, you know, it's an older Mac Mini,

00:28:18   but the library is on a Drobo like it's pretty fast setup and anytime I do anything in there

00:28:23   it's just like I just I just want to strangle it and you know my my library my iMac is much smaller

00:28:29   but even there on a you know

00:28:32   Two year old iMac with an SSD and a music only smaller library. It's still so

00:28:38   just just awkward because they've added so many things over the years and bolt us so many things on and

00:28:44   And a couple years ago, the redesign helped with some of that, but try to explain to somebody

00:28:51   over the phone how to make a playlist in iTunes.

00:28:53   It cannot be done.

00:28:54   You cannot do it because it has just grown into this monster.

00:29:02   If iPod's going away, if that's a signal or if Apple's sort of giving itself permission

00:29:09   to say, "Hey, you know what? This old model of music, some people still want it, but it

00:29:15   is the past and more and more focusing on Apple Music." I mean, the quarterly results

00:29:20   services is up again. It's a growing part of the company. Then your software should

00:29:26   mirror that reality, I think. So I think that does it. Rest in peace, iPod

00:29:32   Nano and Shuffle. Thank you for the years of fun. Lots of years. Lots of years. Lots

00:29:38   of fun. We're gonna talk about iPads in a second. But first, I want to tell you about

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00:31:28   So your platform of choice had a big news day yesterday.

00:31:34   Yeah, so Apple posted their Q3 2017 results and one aspect stood out, especially considering

00:31:46   the past couple of years, that iPad sales are up.

00:31:50   Like 15% increase year over year and 28% from the previous quarter.

00:31:57   And that is a notable piece of information because the iPad sales have been down for

00:32:03   I think two to three years.

00:32:04   It's been a recurring topic of the show where Myke and I are really excited about the iPad

00:32:09   but the iPad sales don't back our excitement.

00:32:14   The last time they had growth was I believe 2013, 2014, year over year.

00:32:20   So it's been three years.

00:32:22   So it's been a long stretch of time and obviously looking at the numbers, yes the sales are

00:32:30   up 15% but in terms of revenue they're only up I think 2% and that suggests that Apple

00:32:41   has sold a lot of cheaper iPads.

00:32:44   So the new ones starting at $329.

00:32:49   So the iPad, I think the fifth generation iPad is called, that launched earlier this

00:32:55   year and we were talking back when that iPad was announced.

00:33:00   We said it's obviously an iPad for education purposes and for people who just want the

00:33:04   basic tablet.

00:33:06   And it seems that's exactly what happened.

00:33:08   Apple sold a bunch of these iPads to education customers.

00:33:13   So I'm pretty sure that during the call, Tim Cook noted that the education sales were up.

00:33:19   So it suggests that iPad is doing well in that segment.

00:33:22   And of course, Apple saw demand for people who want to spend $300 on an iPad, don't want

00:33:30   an iPad Pro, don't want stuff like the pencil and the smart keyboard.

00:33:34   So they went there and they sold those iPads.

00:33:37   So while it's great that iPad sales are up again, I think they're not up in the way that

00:33:45   people like Myke and I would like them to be up.

00:33:48   So in terms of iPad Pro and people switching from Windows PC and Macs to the iPad as a

00:33:55   full-time computer.

00:33:57   But I think it has momentum.

00:33:59   Like the platform has momentum at this point.

00:34:03   There's a new narrative that iPad sales can be up and there's new iPad Pro hardware that

00:34:09   launched in June.

00:34:11   Really powerful stuff with the ProMotion display, with the pencil performance, with the new

00:34:16   screens, the new screen size.

00:34:18   And there's iOS 11 launching later this year.

00:34:21   So I think if you combine these two, if you combine the fact that Apple can still sell

00:34:27   more iPads than we expect, and they have a sort of one-two punch of the iPad Pro and

00:34:33   iOS 11 in the same year, I think that bodes well for even the next quarter. If Apple can

00:34:42   still provide a reasonable story around iOS 11 for people who want to switch to the iPad,

00:34:49   I think now more than ever really since 2014 they have a chance to re-explain the iPad

00:34:58   to people.

00:34:59   At least I want to believe again or still that this can happen.

00:35:05   I don't know.

00:35:06   What do you think?

00:35:07   No, I mean, so I think the breakdown of clearly the 329 iPad has taken off.

00:35:13   I think they said in the call a million to education so far.

00:35:18   Part of that is that spring launch, right,

00:35:20   they got in there for school purchasing.

00:35:23   But clearly people who buy iPads in bulk

00:35:27   were looking for a device like that.

00:35:29   And it's great for consumers as well

00:35:31   'cause it's cheap and it's got relatively newish stuff

00:35:33   in there, but clearly a big hit

00:35:36   for people who buy lots of iPads.

00:35:38   And while that may not translate to the iPad Pro market

00:35:42   right now, I think it could open the door for that

00:35:45   in the future if people are using iPads at school

00:35:48   or work, their teacher or their boss assigns them an iPad,

00:35:53   then maybe they get used to it and that's good

00:35:56   for the whole ecosystem down the road,

00:35:59   but it's not today, right, that's a long-term thing.

00:36:03   But I think the basic story here is that the iPad

00:36:06   has some momentum and the narrative now is not,

00:36:11   well the iPad keeps sliding but now the narrative is hey you know the iPad is is

00:36:15   on the upswing and we have to you know wait another three months to see if it

00:36:19   does that again if this is a one-time thing but you know Apple Apple stock

00:36:25   closed at an all-time high after hours yesterday and there's lots of reasons

00:36:30   for that but I would imagine at least one reason is that the iPad is no longer

00:36:33   sliding that it has not only stopped but made up ground and so I think that's the

00:36:39   big story, I think we get bogged down in like individual devices, but I think

00:36:43   overall it's a thumbs up that the iPad is is finding its legs again. Yeah, I

00:36:50   think so and I think ultimately it all comes down to what the reception to iOS 11

00:36:56   is gonna be like and judging from what we see on Twitter and we talked about

00:37:00   this also, I think it's gonna be for pro users sort of a divisive release because

00:37:08   multitasking stuff is not going down well with... Some people are used to, you know,

00:37:13   the Mac metaphor of spaces and multitasking and, like, doing split views, but I think

00:37:19   Apple can adjust to those over time and they can still figure out ways to appeal to, you

00:37:25   know, the folks who want to switch. Because that's all what it is about, really. Apple

00:37:28   wants to convince folks who are still on Windows PCs and other desktop computers to switch

00:37:34   to iPads. And I feel like with this new hardware and with iOS 11, and if the developer community

00:37:44   can respond to the features in iOS 11 and sort of revitalizing the iPad app store with

00:37:51   stuff like drag and drop and, you know, integrating with the keyboard shortcuts that maybe some

00:37:57   folks ignored when iOS 9 launched. I think the iPad ecosystem could become much stronger

00:38:06   than it is today and when that happens, does it ever have a reflection on sales? Can Apple

00:38:12   convince folks to abandon their five-year-old crummy PC to something modern and faster and

00:38:21   better? That's the big question and that also depends not just on the hardware that Apple

00:38:26   can make exceptionally well, or the software which Apple is making again for the iPad this

00:38:31   time, but it also depends on marketing and it depends on pricing and it depends on how

00:38:37   do you reach those customers. And so judging from the marketing campaigns that Apple has

00:38:42   done for the iPad Pro in the past few months, those have been effective I think. They're

00:38:48   on TV everywhere, there's people talking about the iPad Pro, and those are nice ads, after

00:38:54   They're short, they communicate the goal of the iPad as a platform.

00:38:59   And so I think Apple has momentum in a bunch of different fields surrounding the iPad.

00:39:05   Marketing, software, hardware, and now even results.

00:39:09   And usually when you have this combination of all these factors, usually it's really

00:39:16   hard to do wrong.

00:39:19   Especially when you're a company like Apple, if you can't communicate, if you've got the

00:39:21   the hardware, you got the software, and you got the good pricing and virtually no competition

00:39:28   you know aside from the Surface tablets. You know there's no other, you know, basically

00:39:36   it comes down to the iPad or the Surface at this point. I would be surprised if the next

00:39:42   quarter the iPad doesn't do well but you know maybe I'm wrong, maybe this is just a one

00:39:48   off of people about the cheap iPad. Yeah I mean I think time will tell. If

00:39:54   anything I would hope that it just levels off right that if we can't

00:39:58   sustain the growth that at the very least you know maybe the cheap iPad gave

00:40:03   it a push and iOS 11 will sort of keep it there. I was hoping I think like the

00:40:11   two of you were that the the 10.5 inch iPad Pro would have made a bigger

00:40:14   difference than it seemed to. You know, Apple doesn't release numbers on how

00:40:19   many models they sell. This is all sort of inferred from the sales percentage

00:40:22   increase and the revenue percentage increase. But I think, you know, I think

00:40:29   with iOS 11, you know, if someone's on an older iPad that may, you know, that may

00:40:34   entice them to upgrade. They may look at that 10.5 and or the 329 iPad and

00:40:38   and move forward.

00:40:40   I think the other interesting thing here is that

00:40:44   the iPad Mini's not part of this conversation at all.

00:40:46   Right, like people are assuming it's the 9.7 inch iPad

00:40:51   and the Mini is just not in the conversation.

00:40:55   It's still for sale, you can still buy an iPad Mini,

00:40:57   I think there's one skew, but it,

00:41:00   if we'd had this conversation three years ago,

00:41:03   people would be like, "Oh yeah, the iPad Mini

00:41:05   "must be on the uptake."

00:41:06   But I think now the Mini is sort of like the, those iPods we talked about where it's, I

00:41:12   think it's time is slipping away from it.

00:41:15   Yeah.

00:41:17   I don't know anyone who uses an iPad Mini anymore.

00:41:20   Like even my friends.

00:41:22   You used to do all your work on an iPad Mini.

00:41:24   I used to.

00:41:25   When we started this show, you ran Mac stories on an iPad Mini.

00:41:29   That is absolutely true.

00:41:31   And it's the iPad that got me into the idea of working on the iPad.

00:41:35   So I own the iPad mini big time, really.

00:41:40   But it's, again, sort of like iTunes and the old iPods.

00:41:44   I think it's past its time, you know, with big iPhones and the new iPad Pros.

00:41:50   I don't see a spot for the iPad mini anymore.

00:41:54   And iOS 11 is so obviously geared to something with a larger screen.

00:41:59   Like it's better on the 10.5 than the 9.7.

00:42:03   But I haven't played with it on the 12.9,

00:42:05   but I imagine it's way better on the 12.9.

00:42:07   It's much, much better on the-- as always,

00:42:11   with split view and these features,

00:42:13   it's so much better on the big screen.

00:42:15   So anything else about the iPads or anything else

00:42:18   in the quarter of the results that jump out at you?

00:42:20   Well, the services revenue, I think that was interesting,

00:42:24   that Apple is still growing.

00:42:25   And I saw the argument from some folks on Twitter

00:42:30   that much of the revenue that Apple reports on their services

00:42:35   is actually a fee because they are a payment processor.

00:42:39   So like they process payments for customers on iTunes

00:42:44   and the apps and they take a fee, for example,

00:42:48   from developers.

00:42:49   And that is not really generating revenue

00:42:52   like Google or Amazon do.

00:42:55   They're like actually providing services.

00:42:59   So the argument goes that Apple owes a huge portion

00:43:02   of its services revenue to the rather non-exciting act

00:43:10   of taking the commission.

00:43:12   But I don't think the argument is fair, honestly,

00:43:15   because running the App Store and the iTunes Store

00:43:19   itself is running a service, and a huge one,

00:43:22   if you consider all the users that Apple has.

00:43:25   And also Google and others also take a fee from purchases on the Google Play Store for

00:43:31   example.

00:43:32   So Apple is not alone.

00:43:34   And also there's iCloud and Apple Music and I don't think it's fair to describe Apple

00:43:38   as a payment processor when they have an actual music streaming service that appears to be

00:43:46   doing quite well.

00:43:47   And they also have iCloud Drive and they support features like sharing storage and you can

00:43:53   buy multiple tiers of storage and iCloud is going to take on more responsibilities with

00:43:58   iOS 11 considering all the stuff that you can store on iCloud now and sync with iCloud

00:44:03   from messages to your health data. So I don't think it's fair to describe Apple as making

00:44:08   money on services by taking a fee from developers because that is not all they do. I still think

00:44:14   Apple is not, you know, providing the same, in some fields, the same quality services

00:44:21   as Google. So I still think Apple is quite behind Google in terms of the details of some

00:44:28   products. But overall, Apple, I don't think there's any doubt that Apple is embracing

00:44:33   services and charging people money for services from Apple Music to iCloud. And the App Store

00:44:39   is part of that, but I don't think it defines Apple as a services company. And in fact,

00:44:44   I think we're going to see even more services type products from Apple. For example, if

00:44:49   ever do the TV bundle that was rumored for years. That's going to be another. I saw that

00:44:56   on Twitter and I thought it was worth discussing.

00:44:58   Oh, it's good. I think a couple of other things jumped out at me. In the comments, Apple said

00:45:04   that the Apple Watch sales were up 50% year over year. That's a Bezos number because we

00:45:10   don't know what those numbers actually are. It's just that they're up. I wish they would

00:45:19   would give numbers. I think it'd be really interesting to know those numbers

00:45:23   but they lumped the Apple watch in with other products where the

00:45:27   iPod is as well. But clearly the watch is doing well but we don't know how well we

00:45:34   just know you know relative terms. I found that interesting in this quarter

00:45:37   the watch seems like such a holiday item and so if it's up now this much that I

00:45:44   would hope that the holiday quarter would be even better. This comes sort of

00:45:48   it's sort of in the background, we're gonna talk about the iPhone stuff shortly, but it's

00:45:52   sort of in the background is the idea that there's a new watch coming in the fall. I'm

00:45:56   not sure I buy into that. I feel like the watch is a two-year cycle, but if it is, there's

00:46:01   a new watch coming and it's really compelling and they can make enough of them this year.

00:46:05   The holiday quarter could be really big for the Apple Watch. Again, with like air quote

00:46:10   numbers.

00:46:11   If Apple can do the watch with the SIM card this year, I'm totally gonna get another one.

00:46:17   Because I really want the independent watch.

00:46:22   But like you said, I don't know if the watch can be updated on an annual basis.

00:46:27   The rumor – well, not a rumor – what some analysts believe as an estimation is that

00:46:35   the Apple Watch sales are approaching 30 million units to date.

00:46:42   They built this estimation by looking at the other section

00:46:46   of the revenue reported by Apple and basically building trends

00:46:51   for the previous other revenue and then calculating

00:46:55   the difference now that the watch is included

00:46:57   and sort of estimating the units and the revenue

00:47:00   that those generated.

00:47:02   So a bunch of analysts seem to agree

00:47:04   that Apple Watch is now up to 29/30 million units sold

00:47:08   to date, which is a good number.

00:47:10   It is a good number.

00:47:12   The other thing that jumped out at me was the Mac number.

00:47:14   So the sales were flat year over year,

00:47:17   but the revenue is up a percentage.

00:47:20   I forget the exact number, but sort of the op,

00:47:23   sort of like what we're talking about with the iPad,

00:47:26   that it saw lots of growth, but a small increase in revenue.

00:47:30   The Mac was flat, but a little bit more revenue,

00:47:33   and so people are buying slightly more expensive machines.

00:47:37   I think that's continuing to be the new MacBook Pro.

00:47:40   They do have a cheaper escape version now

00:47:42   with the no touch bar, but overall,

00:47:44   like the entry, you know, 15 inch is more than it used to be

00:47:49   to kind of decent 13 inches more than it used to be.

00:47:51   So I still think that MacBook Pro is carrying that number.

00:47:54   They spoke on the call about the iMac Pro.

00:47:57   I think that there are definitely people holding off

00:47:59   on a new iMac right now for the iMac Pro.

00:48:03   And so-- - Oh yeah, for sure.

00:48:04   - Once that lands the end of this year,

00:48:06   which is really coming up, it's August already,

00:48:08   then I expect the Mac number,

00:48:10   If they can sell them in that quarter

00:48:12   and it doesn't slip until calendar 2018,

00:48:15   I would expect the Mac to finish the year strong

00:48:17   with the iMac Pro, 'cause it's gonna be so expensive.

00:48:19   And I think there are definitely people,

00:48:22   almost everyone I've talked to who does what we do,

00:48:25   like if they work on a Mac, most of them have iMacs,

00:48:27   and most of them are the year of the 2015 or older.

00:48:31   I know a bunch of people who are super pumped

00:48:34   for the iMac Pro.

00:48:35   - There's a pent up demand for the iMac Pro,

00:48:40   and when that happens, it's gonna generate a bump

00:48:43   in the MAC revenue for sure.

00:48:44   - Yeah. - So I think you're right.

00:48:45   - So that'll be fun to look out for.

00:48:47   But I mean, all in all, a good quarter,

00:48:49   I know we don't talk a lot about the results on this show,

00:48:51   but I think it's interesting talking about the products

00:48:53   kind of embedded in the results.

00:48:55   So. - Yeah, I think so.

00:48:57   - Tim also mentioned that they're a little bit of a pause

00:49:00   on iPhone sales, and we're gonna talk about that

00:49:02   and why that may be after this last break.

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00:51:09   This story, man.

00:51:14   It's the story of the year so far, I think.

00:51:17   I think when we get to the end of the year, we do our year roundup.

00:51:20   We're going to talk about this.

00:51:22   Yeah.

00:51:23   last week, a firmware bundle for the HomePod was posted to the Apple developer site.

00:51:30   Uh, parentheses, LOL.

00:51:34   It was downloaded as you might imagine, and a bunch of stuff came to light and we're going

00:51:39   to get into that and, uh, and get into the work some people have been doing on it, but

00:51:43   it blows my mind that this happened.

00:51:45   Like it seems like a, a pretty, a pretty big error on Apple's part.

00:51:50   It's not great.

00:51:53   Yeah.

00:51:55   Again, you've got people downloading this firmware files all the time.

00:52:02   Especially, you know, I subscribe for example to Twitter accounts and other notification

00:52:08   services that they monitor the Apple servers, like the developer servers, and they alert

00:52:13   you every time there's a new firmware, like an OTA download that you can get.

00:52:19   That happens for the major releases, that happens for beta seeds, that go out to developers,

00:52:26   that happens for public betas.

00:52:28   Anything that is on Apple CDN you can download.

00:52:31   And there are tools, to give you some context, especially to our listeners, there are tools

00:52:36   that allow you to download the IPSW file that is a firmware for Apple devices and to sort

00:52:43   of decompress it and look inside the operating system itself to look at the APIs, to look

00:52:51   at the code that Apple writes and all the assets, the references, all the symbols that

00:52:59   you have like DOS, you can decompress it, you can unload everything that is in there

00:53:06   and take a look. And very smart people do this all the time and this time they got lucky

00:53:13   because this firmware was not supposed to be released now.

00:53:18   So there's a link by John Gruber on during Fireball and he quickly mentions that he heard

00:53:25   that the HomePod firmware, Apple was getting ready to seed a firmware update to a bunch

00:53:35   of employees.

00:53:37   And that's also what I heard, like from a bunch of folks, that there was supposed to

00:53:43   be a software update for HomePod units that are currently being tested by Apple employees.

00:53:51   And somewhere along that process, something happened.

00:53:55   And that firmware ended up on the public server instead of the, I assume instead of the employee-only

00:54:05   one.

00:54:06   And I don't know how that happened.

00:54:08   There can be human error, there can be a service problem, I don't know the details.

00:54:14   But that seems to be the backstory that is sort of circulating at the moment.

00:54:21   And of course, Apple is not commenting on any of this, but it's fun to speculate.

00:54:25   Anyway, Stephen, give us the summary of what was in there, because it's quite a lot of

00:54:32   stuff.

00:54:33   It's quite a lot of stuff.

00:54:34   So let's talk about the HomePod first, because the phone stuff I think is more immediately

00:54:41   interesting.

00:54:42   There's a YouTube video floating around of all the sound effects the HomePod makes.

00:54:45   I listen to all of them.

00:54:47   I think they're all lovely.

00:54:48   Good job, sound designers.

00:54:50   That's on YouTube now.

00:54:51   So sorry.

00:54:53   Also about the HomePod talks about the...

00:54:57   There's a lot of debate about the display at the top of the HomePod.

00:55:00   It seems like it's 272 by 340 pixels.

00:55:05   It's under a diffuser, so it's a very low res, very simple screen, maybe even more like

00:55:12   an LED matrix, but the diffuser sort of softens it.

00:55:15   So that was in the code.

00:55:17   There's also some information about, it reports to the app store, or it reports to itself

00:55:23   that it's an iPhone SE, but there's no infrastructure right now for like app

00:55:29   extensions or third-party apps, which is in line with what Apple told us, right?

00:55:34   There's no third-party apps on this thing yet, but so we're learning a lot

00:55:40   about the device and that's to be expected, right? You'd expect that the

00:55:42   the firmware for a device talks about the device, so we know a few more things.

00:55:46   But what's really interesting, the way the work of like Steven Trout Smith,

00:55:51   By the way, a link to his Patreon will be in our show notes.

00:55:57   Steve is just like a genuinely nice human being.

00:55:59   I've gotten to know him a little bit over the last year.

00:56:02   He's an incredible guy, super smart, and if you're interested in this stuff, his Patreon

00:56:07   is just a wealth of information.

00:56:10   So there'll be a link to that in the show notes, you should go check it out.

00:56:13   But what he dug up about this next iPhone is pretty incredible.

00:56:17   So the code name or the reference is D22,

00:56:20   something Gruber confirmed also with the nickname of Ferrari,

00:56:26   which I kinda like.

00:56:27   The display resolution is known now to be 1125 by 2436.

00:56:33   That would allow if my math is right native at 3x,

00:56:39   so like the 6, 6S, and 7+ models are 3x,

00:56:45   they're scaling off screen and then sort of smashing it down.

00:56:48   This would be all native.

00:56:51   It has-- in the code, there's a lot about the design,

00:56:57   and then there's a lot about the face ID.

00:57:00   Did you see this artwork he dug up for the way the phone looks?

00:57:04   Yeah, and I'm not sure what you think.

00:57:08   So we should describe it.

00:57:11   It's exactly what you think it is,

00:57:13   where it is-- exactly what we talked about, very thin

00:57:15   bezels with some sort of cutout at the top for the cameras

00:57:20   and the earpiece that sort of pushes down into the display

00:57:25   area, and the display sort of comes up around it.

00:57:27   It's kind of hard to explain, but if you

00:57:30   think about what we've been talking about for months,

00:57:32   this basically confirms it.

00:57:35   Yeah, and actually, before we start

00:57:37   talking about all of these features, as you mentioned,

00:57:40   there is no IPSW file for the HomePod firmware,

00:57:45   like in the traditional sense.

00:57:48   Basically what these people caught was an OTA update

00:57:52   that hit the Apple server.

00:57:55   And it's like when you see like an OTA update

00:57:59   for beta two to beta three, for example.

00:58:01   And that goes back to the idea that it was supposed to be

00:58:06   software update for Apple folks who already have a HomePod,

00:58:11   and they were going to be able to update the software

00:58:14   to a new version.

00:58:15   So there's not like an IPSW file that you download,

00:58:19   like those files that you use to restore an iPhone with iTunes.

00:58:23   But there is still an OTA download

00:58:26   that these people have managed to decompress and inspect.

00:58:29   That makes more sense.

00:58:30   OK.

00:58:31   Yeah.

00:58:31   Got it.

00:58:32   So let's talk about the new design.

00:58:37   Like, there were speculation and rumors about the fact

00:58:43   that Apple was going to go with this sort of top-notch design.

00:58:48   I suppose if they really go with this design,

00:58:51   they're going to have some top-notch jokes

00:58:53   about the iPhone.

00:58:54   Oh, no.

00:58:56   If Phil Shiller has an opportunity to make a dad joke,

00:58:58   he's going to take the opportunity.

00:58:59   Right?

00:58:59   Like, he's not going to let that go by.

00:59:01   Yeah.

00:59:02   Yeah, they're going to put top notch in there somewhere.

00:59:05   Oh, no doubt.

00:59:08   My big question right now is, how does Apple

00:59:11   deal with the status bar?

00:59:13   Because you've got these two ears floating at the top.

00:59:18   And ideally, based on also what Steve found in the code,

00:59:23   there should be a way for iOS to split the status bar in two.

00:59:29   So to have two halves of the status bar, one at the left, possibly with the signal and

00:59:34   Wi-Fi and at the right with everything else.

00:59:38   My question is, is the status bar integrated with the rest of the title bar at the bottom

00:59:44   of the app or is it like a black bar that kind of blends in with the top notch, with

00:59:51   the black frame of the phone?

00:59:53   And because it's an OLED screen, the black of the little ears looks just like the black

00:59:59   of the device itself.

01:00:02   Or is it more like an edge-to-edge full bleed design where the content appears to go all

01:00:10   the way up to the corners, and of course at the bottom where there's the function area

01:00:14   supposedly.

01:00:16   So it'll be interesting to see what kind of approach Apple takes.

01:00:18   the status bar stays up at the top and it integrates with the content of apps and like

01:00:23   title bars, especially with the new iOS 11 design, or if Apple kind of returns to the

01:00:28   old black stars bar style of iOS 5, for example, and there's like a distinct separation between

01:00:34   app content and status bar. And I don't know what to think at this point. I don't know

01:00:39   what I prefer. I was looking at some mockups that were going around on Twitter. I'm not

01:00:43   sure what I prefer.

01:00:44   I'm with you. I'm a little torn. It looks weird to have like content or display around that notch, but

01:00:50   It's only weird for the first few days and then to get used to it

01:00:54   There's a blog post by Alan Pike who he really breaks into breaks us down talks about the screen resolution

01:01:01   Talks about the opportunity for Apple to do stuff

01:01:04   You know at the bottom of the screen and he has some screenshots there that maybe iOS

01:01:10   11th design makes more sense on a phone like this

01:01:14   Right. It's all very it's all very interesting

01:01:17   Yeah, because you basically with iOS 11 you get the new large title bar option

01:01:22   It's not enforced on developers like it's an option you can enable it or you can keep the normal title bars for context

01:01:30   The large title bar is the style that you get in Apple music

01:01:33   In Apple news or you know all the most of the system apps in the iOS 11 beta

01:01:39   So developers can also use that option.

01:01:42   And if you consider how weird it looks on existing devices, because it creates this

01:01:47   big gap, you know, on top of the title, that gap makes it ideal for integrating it with

01:01:58   the status bar somehow, or sort of putting the clock maybe in the center of that gap

01:02:05   underneath the notch.

01:02:07   That's basically the mockups that are going around.

01:02:10   Or there's another idea of moving some information, some controls from the top bar to the bottom.

01:02:17   So if the next iPhone gets a function area where the virtual home button, which by the

01:02:23   way in the system is, in the firmware for the HomePod is called the home indicator because

01:02:30   it's no longer a home button.

01:02:34   the idea of putting controls next to the home button, so like the controls to navigate back,

01:02:41   or maybe like the plus button that you normally see in the top right, or the compose button

01:02:46   for example, that is usually in the top right, those could leave at the bottom, next to the

01:02:51   home button, and they would be contextual based on the app that you're using.

01:02:55   And developers wouldn't have to tweak, I guess, because the API could fall back, mostly gracefully,

01:03:03   to floating those controls at the bottom.

01:03:07   And by the way, there's a trend of putting these controls at the bottom, it's called

01:03:10   reach navigation.

01:03:11   I had a link on Mac stories a few weeks ago of helping interactions with these big phones

01:03:18   that we have now by moving controls to the bottom.

01:03:21   So that would be, I guess, comfortable to use.

01:03:25   So take a look at those links, there's a bunch of mockups that people are imagining and it's

01:03:28   It's fun to speculate, even if we have what should be the final design, we have no idea

01:03:35   what the software is going to be like.

01:03:36   And that is fascinating for me at this point.

01:03:39   But in terms of hardware and what this phone is going to do for us, the big point is, it

01:03:45   seems the confirmed lack of any Touch ID on this phone.

01:03:50   And it appears that Apple is going all in on face recognition through this system that

01:03:54   that is code named "Pearl" and that is referenced multiple times on the system in the Biometric

01:03:59   Kit framework. So this face authentication that is going to replace Touch ID. Steve Trotton-Smith

01:04:07   couldn't find any references to Touch ID, so let's just assume that Touch ID is not

01:04:11   there. It's not in the back, it's not under the display. And it seems like Apple is gearing

01:04:17   up to offer some major additions to the camera. So there's going to be a front-facing 3D

01:04:23   sensing camera that can use face authentication to unlock the phone and supposedly authenticate

01:04:31   passwords into apps and Apple Pay for payments. But also there's going to be support for

01:04:37   ARKit because there's a 3D sensing camera. It can do ARKit and if you look at the code

01:04:45   that Steve and the other guy, Guillermo Rambo, I think, what a name Rambo by the way, for

01:04:53   on to leak the next iPhone software. You know, the Rambo leak. That's amazing.

01:05:01   So if you look at the APIs that they offered screenshots, it seems like ARKit is going to gain

01:05:08   some form of face knowledge, like it can assemble the geometry of your face.

01:05:17   And that's going to be useful to, for example, to superimpose graphics, for example, to change

01:05:24   the background of, you know, of your actual, for example, your selfie.

01:05:29   You're going to take a selfie, you can change the background.

01:05:32   And it's sort of what you're getting with the depth API in iOS 11, where on the iPhone

01:05:38   7 Plus, if you take a photo on iOS 11, developers can make photo editing apps to change the

01:05:43   depth map of the photo.

01:05:46   the same but for selfies, for the front-facing camera. So you take a sort of like photo booth

01:05:51   on the Mac but done much better using the ARKit, I guess. And also the idea of this

01:05:58   is a recent discovery. There's going to be a, it appears in the code, there's a reference

01:06:04   to a feature called the SmartCam. And the SmartCam, it seems it can recognize various

01:06:09   types of scenery and context. So if you take a look at the screenshots, there's like scene,

01:06:15   pet or seen sky or seen foliage or fireworks. So think of the knowledge that Photos has

01:06:24   in the Photos app, but apply that to the camera in real time. It could be fun to imagine like

01:06:31   having a smart cam that can focus automatically on babies or on pets or understand what the

01:06:38   the background is and for example adjust exposure in real time because it

01:06:44   understands that's the sky and that's a tree you know like in real time that

01:06:49   could be pretty cool

01:06:50   yeah point shoot cameras even and even nicer cameras have modes you can put

01:06:55   them in but you're like I am shooting fireworks or hey I'm outdoors or

01:06:59   whatever but they're sort of dumb right because they don't have that they have

01:07:03   some parameters they change but they're not adaptive to what's going on where

01:07:07   this sort of technology can take that further and say, hey, I'm shooting this sort of thing,

01:07:11   but take all the information you know and all the information you're gathering in real

01:07:13   time and make decisions about the picture I'm getting ready to take. That is super exciting

01:07:19   to me.

01:07:20   Yeah, yeah. I think it is very exciting to have this real time AI like applied to this,

01:07:28   to the app that millions of people use every day, which is the camera. If it really works,

01:07:33   could be pretty awesome. And finally, moving to the bottom of the phone to speculate on

01:07:39   the code that was found. It doesn't seem like the function area where the home indicator

01:07:45   is gonna be. It doesn't seem like it's gonna be programmable by developers because Steve

01:07:51   Transmit couldn't find APIs for developers to put custom controls in there. So I'm curious

01:07:59   to see if Apple is not allowing developers to fully customize that, if it maybe lends

01:08:06   some value to the idea of that is the, you know, on the old iPhones you write the title

01:08:15   bar as usual, but on the new one it goes to the bottom. But what happens, you know, like,

01:08:23   it's gonna be strange if moving from the old generation of iPhones where some stuff is

01:08:29   at the top and then suddenly is at the bottom and there's no home button anymore.

01:08:33   But also what happens to the system keyboard?

01:08:35   Like where is the keyboard displayed?

01:08:38   Is it displayed above the function area?

01:08:40   So if you look at your iPhone now, you have a physical function area, which is, you know,

01:08:45   the bezel where the home button is.

01:08:47   And obviously the keyboard is displayed in the screen where the software can be displayed.

01:08:52   But now if you assume that the bezel is going to be a screen, does the keyboard still sit

01:08:57   on top of the function area or does the keyboard cover the home button? But if the keyboard

01:09:02   covers the home button, then you cannot go home anymore. So we have to assume there's

01:09:07   going to be, this function area is going to be persistent all the time, otherwise it's

01:09:11   just going to be weird. And at this point I wonder, what if we are overthinking all

01:09:17   this and the function area is just going to be black because it looks like an iPhone?

01:09:23   Because we're coming up with all these mockups, like Apple is going to put a touch bar in

01:09:28   there or it's going to be programmable developers, it's going to blend in with the content.

01:09:32   But all the mockups I see of these top bars on top of the function area, or a keyboard

01:09:38   on top of the function area, and it creates this contrast between the two elements on

01:09:43   screen.

01:09:44   Either the mockups are not really done well, or the function area is still just a black

01:09:49   spot for the virtual home button or Apple is clever, more clever than all of us combined

01:09:58   and they devised this amazing design that takes advantage of the fact that it's a screen

01:10:04   but also looks elegant, looks polished, it doesn't look like, it doesn't stick out, you

01:10:08   know, with that virtual home button and the area around it. And this goes back to the

01:10:15   point of "I'm really excited about all this because we know nothing about the software,

01:10:19   we know nothing about the design, we only saw this glyph of what is going to be the

01:10:24   phone with the top notch". And we get these references in the code that was uploaded by

01:10:31   mistaken Apple servers. And we think we know all the features that are going to come out,

01:10:37   But in reality, some people think that these APIs are just written and created just before

01:10:46   the iPhone comes out.

01:10:48   But obviously, there's engineers who have been working on these APIs and this code for

01:10:53   a couple of years, at least.

01:10:56   This has been in the works for such a long time.

01:10:59   And there's a contrast between the work that engineers do that can go on for a really long

01:11:05   time and the executive decisions that can be made at the very last moment. If Tim Cook

01:11:11   decides "We're not going to do the SmartCam", then that code is going to be scrapped, it's

01:11:17   going to be removed and we're not going to have a SmartCam because it doesn't work well.

01:11:21   Or if at the very last moment Craig Federighi says "Nope, drag and drop, it's not going

01:11:25   to be on the iPhone between multiple apps". So finding an API reference is not necessarily

01:11:32   a guarantee for the feature to come out in September. Because features are in the works

01:11:36   for years, but it takes an executive decision on a whim in an afternoon to be pulled. So,

01:11:43   considering all this, the fact that it's still early August and that we only got the rumors

01:11:49   and the glyph and these APIs, we know nothing about the software, that together makes me

01:11:56   super super excited about this iPhone, in a way that I wasn't excited about the iPhone

01:12:00   in years, you know, I feel like the between iOS 11 on the iPad and whatever Apple is doing

01:12:06   with this iPhone Pro iPhone 8, it's gonna be a pretty awesome fall for iOS.

01:12:13   I think so. And you know, I agree with you. I think before this stuff, I was excited about

01:12:18   this iPhone. And yes, leaks do damage the surprise of it. But I'm really excited about

01:12:25   the opportunities Apple and third party developers have

01:12:29   to do with this device.

01:12:30   And it's gonna be a fun, you know,

01:12:35   we're five or six weeks out from the event

01:12:39   and I'm just looking forward to it.

01:12:41   You know, one thing that is interesting

01:12:43   to sort of wrap this stuff up

01:12:45   is there's been this talk about leaks from Apple

01:12:49   come from Apple now, right?

01:12:50   Like you still get supply chain leaks

01:12:52   but they're clamping down on that.

01:12:54   And this is a pretty massive stroke in that column.

01:12:59   - Yeah, well, I think a leak is, you know,

01:13:04   something that is made consciously,

01:13:07   like you want to leak information.

01:13:10   This is just an accident.

01:13:12   - I think it is too.

01:13:13   Yeah, I don't think anybody sat around saying,

01:13:15   oh, I want to do this.

01:13:16   But nevertheless, like the outcome's kind of the same.

01:13:19   - Yes, yes, it is.

01:13:21   - But it's--

01:13:22   Even more so than in the past, because even before, we never got to look at the APIs months

01:13:28   in advance. We never got to look at the code names, you know, months before the event.

01:13:33   So in terms of just the outcome alone, it's even worse than in the past, because before

01:13:39   we had Gurman on 9to5Mac, and we had some cases from the Chinese manufacturers and maybe

01:13:45   some supply chain rumors. But now the new generation of Apple rumors and leaks, you

01:13:51   you know, with Ming-Chu Kuo and, you know, Mecha Takara, the Japanese blog, and, you

01:13:57   know, some rumors on, what's it called, Weibo, you know, the Chinese Twitter. We have those,

01:14:04   but you know, it seems like we're in a different age of Apple rumors. And so this "leak" from

01:14:10   the HomePod firmware sort of restores the previous glory of Apple leaks, you know, because

01:14:17   it's a lot of details and for us it's kind of awesome. I would not say the same for the

01:14:22   people at Apple who worked on this and I cannot imagine you know if this I mean we have to

01:14:27   assume this was an accident so I cannot assume you know if there's anybody responsible for

01:14:32   this like this must have been hell on them so I feel for those people because you know

01:14:37   accidents happen and mistakes can be made and in this case it was a pretty big mistake

01:14:43   So yeah, so that's that.

01:14:47   New design, new features.

01:14:51   One question that came to mind when you were talking about the

01:14:55   IPSW versus the OTA.

01:14:59   Why is this stuff in an update aimed for the HomePod?

01:15:03   So, here's how it works.

01:15:07   The HomePod update

01:15:11   reports version as iOS 11.0.2. So it's two patches ahead of what we are going to get

01:15:21   if we get iOS 11.0 in September. Those are two patches ahead. And the way that these

01:15:28   patches work, they are developed in tandem with the public release. Of course, it's different

01:15:33   teams working on different stuff. For example, you know, some engineers maybe from, let's

01:15:38   say from the drag and drop team, they have already moved on from what is going to be

01:15:43   the public release, and they're now working on the next one.

01:15:46   And there's other engineers who are dealing with the beta and with the feedback and incorporating

01:15:49   the stuff from beta testers and developers.

01:15:53   And there's obviously people who are working on iOS 11.0.1, 0.2, and maybe iOS 11.1 and

01:16:01   0.2.

01:16:03   And when those updates are seeded to internal testers, so Apple employees, the API references,

01:16:10   the symbols and all the design assets that are normally scrubbed from the developer release

01:16:18   in June, the betas that we get, those things are not removed because it's Apple people.

01:16:28   They are obligated to an NDA.

01:16:29   cannot talk about stuff and they should see stuff because they are testing the HomePod,

01:16:35   they are maybe testing the next iPhone, so they need to see those, they need those features

01:16:39   to be working. And so when a mistake is made like this and when that firmware, you know,

01:16:45   that maybe adds iPhone Pro integration to the HomePod, so Apple was like, "We're gonna

01:16:50   add iPhone Pro integration, so make sure to update your HomePods." And the firmware file

01:16:56   ends up in the wrong directory.

01:16:58   Instead of going to Apple employees,

01:17:00   it goes on to the public.

01:17:02   And of course, you're gonna see all of those things.

01:17:04   You're gonna see all of those APIs,

01:17:05   you're gonna see all of those features.

01:17:07   And the reason why it's in an update,

01:17:11   it's because Apple is obviously ahead of our schedule,

01:17:16   and they're making the next versions of iOS 11 already,

01:17:21   and there's people inside Apple who are testing those.

01:17:24   And to test those, they need to have the features working,

01:17:27   which means no code can be scrapped,

01:17:30   which means if you make a mistake,

01:17:32   everybody's going to see that.

01:17:34   And because there are extraction tools

01:17:36   to decompress and inspect these files,

01:17:39   whether it's a firmware update or an IPSW,

01:17:42   this is the result.

01:17:44   We're now talking about the APIs in August.

01:17:46   Yeah.

01:17:48   - Cool.

01:17:49   Well, I appreciate that explanation.

01:17:52   So if you want to find show notes this week,

01:17:54   you can do so on our website, relay.fm/connected/153.

01:17:59   You can get in touch with us there via email or by Twitter.

01:18:03   The show is at _connectedfm.

01:18:05   Federico is there at Vatici,

01:18:07   and you can find his writing a course at maxstories.net.

01:18:11   Myke will be back next week.

01:18:12   You can find him at @imyke on Twitter.

01:18:15   You can find my writing at 512pixels.net,

01:18:17   and I am @ismh on Twitter.

01:18:19   So I think that's it.

01:18:22   So until next time, Federico, say goodbye.

01:18:25   - Adios, derti. - Adios.

01:18:26   [