147: I Wish We Could Be Friends in Real Life


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:06   From Relay FM, this is Connected, episode 147.

00:00:10   Today's show is brought to you by PDF Pen 9 from Smile, Blue Apron, and Encapsula.

00:00:17   My name is Myke Hurley. I am joined by Mr. Steven Hackett. Hello, Steven Hackett.

00:00:21   Hello, Michael Hurley.

00:00:23   And Mr. Federico Vittucci. Ciao Federico.

00:00:25   Ciao, how are you?

00:00:27   Good, I must have reversed the order because that felt weird.

00:00:31   I must always say hello to Federico first because it didn't feel normal to me.

00:00:35   Lately you've been saying ciao to me first. Now, I guess you've already, you know,

00:00:41   you forgot about me now that I'm not in London anymore.

00:00:45   Yep.

00:00:46   No.

00:00:46   You're just a memory again.

00:00:49   Yeah, just a memory. I mean, it's fine. It's fine. It just makes me sad, but it's fine.

00:00:53   You should move here.

00:00:54   Nah.

00:00:56   Nah.

00:00:57   Why you still can?

00:00:59   No, I'm cool man. I'm fine. Thanks. Okay. Mm-hmm

00:01:04   Steven save us, please

00:01:07   Follow up follow up. We have a bunch of follow up this week. We're gonna start with the

00:01:12   10.5 inch iPad

00:01:14   My mind showed up after we recorded last week's episode

00:01:18   I've put together a few impressions in a blog post you should go check out

00:01:21   But what I really want to talk about was the hundred and twenty frames per second

00:01:26   promotion deal.

00:01:27   The glorious screen, you mean?

00:01:29   Mm.

00:01:31   I had a little bit of a sense of this before,

00:01:35   but then I got mine.

00:01:37   It definitely sank in that this refresh rate

00:01:40   makes me feel nauseous, like queasy.

00:01:44   And I think I put it in my blog post,

00:01:46   it makes me feel like something in my brain is vibrating.

00:01:49   It's a very surreal experience.

00:01:52   I have not had this experience in VR,

00:01:54   So I've used the Oculus and the HTC Vive.

00:01:57   I did not experience this with those headsets,

00:02:01   but I definitely get it from this iPad.

00:02:03   And so I tweeted the other night,

00:02:04   there is an accessibility option to limit the frame rate

00:02:08   to 60 frames per second.

00:02:10   I do not know what this does to the pencil refresh rate.

00:02:13   My guess is it limits it to 120 like the old iPad,

00:02:17   but I haven't really done like testing with it on and off.

00:02:20   But if you do find yourself in this situation,

00:02:22   I've heard from some people that do feel this way,

00:02:24   that high frame rate makes them feel uncomfortable,

00:02:27   you go into accessibility and there's an option in there.

00:02:29   - This is very strange.

00:02:31   This feels very strange to me.

00:02:32   - And at first I thought, the first time it happened,

00:02:37   I thought, well, I'm tired, I've been traveling,

00:02:40   let me just set this iPad aside for a couple days.

00:02:42   And I tried it again, like one morning I was well rested,

00:02:45   like I felt fine, I didn't have a headache or anything,

00:02:48   I was in good shape and it happened again.

00:02:51   So this really made me consider

00:02:53   whether or not to return this iPad or not,

00:02:55   because this is like one of the big features,

00:02:58   and if I'm not taking advantage of it,

00:02:59   maybe I can just stay on the 9.7.

00:03:02   But what has led me to keep it is the four gigs of RAM

00:03:06   and the additional support iOS 11 will bring

00:03:09   for those iPads running three apps at a time

00:03:11   instead of just two.

00:03:12   So I'm keeping the 10.5.

00:03:13   I really like this iPad.

00:03:15   The screen size is nice, form factor is great,

00:03:19   the smart keyboard is way better than it has any right

00:03:21   to be for just how much marginally larger it is in the 9.7.

00:03:25   But all in all, it's a great iPad, I'm really enjoying it.

00:03:28   I just have to have this toggle turned off

00:03:29   or my brain explodes.

00:03:31   - I also feel like returning it

00:03:33   isn't a good long-term solution, right?

00:03:35   Because this isn't gonna change.

00:03:38   - Yeah.

00:03:39   - Right, like returning it because it has it

00:03:40   doesn't once solve the long-term problem that you may have.

00:03:43   - I was really worried before I discovered

00:03:47   the accessibility setting, I was like,

00:03:48   I'm never gonna be able to use an iPad or an iPhone.

00:03:50   I'm like, oh no.

00:03:52   Would you just carry around a couple of sick bags and just

00:03:55   forge the technology?

00:03:57   I'll just use my cool green iPhone 5C forever.

00:04:00   But turns out there's a setting.

00:04:02   So clearly Apple thought about this,

00:04:04   or it came up internally or in testing or something.

00:04:06   So once again, big thumbs up to Apple's accessibility team

00:04:11   for putting something in there that affects probably

00:04:14   a very small number of people.

00:04:15   But apparently I'm one of them.

00:04:18   So there you go.

00:04:19   - I feel really bad for you in this.

00:04:22   - Yeah.

00:04:23   - Like in general?

00:04:24   - Sometimes, but like today it's just about

00:04:27   the 120 frames per second specifically.

00:04:31   Just because, you know, I mean, I'm sorry,

00:04:33   but like it's incredible.

00:04:35   And I'm, you know, I'm sorry, I'm very sorry

00:04:37   that you can't experience it comfortably.

00:04:39   'Cause I think for the people that can,

00:04:42   it is a very, very nice feature.

00:04:45   - Oh, no doubt.

00:04:47   And I may try it again at some point down the road

00:04:51   and like see if I can get used to it.

00:04:52   I mean, it may just be something I need to adjust to

00:04:54   and then it's fine.

00:04:56   But for now, off is fine.

00:04:59   - Maybe you just have like a slower pace of living

00:05:01   in the South, you know?

00:05:02   - Maybe you're looking at it wrong.

00:05:05   - That's true, you could be.

00:05:06   - You're not the same.

00:05:09   - That's probably it.

00:05:11   - Just stop looking at it that way.

00:05:16   listener Brent wrote in asking if we think iOS 12 will skip the iPad like iOS 10 did.

00:05:22   So iOS 9 brought multitasking to the iPad, 10 did basically nothing for the iPad, now

00:05:28   we're at iOS 11 with, you know, I think what Tim Cook keeps calling and I wish he would

00:05:32   stop the mother of all iPad releases, which is a terrible phrase.

00:05:36   No, no.

00:05:37   And I was seeing what you guys thought about that.

00:05:39   Do you think the iPad is on this TikTok schedule from now on?

00:05:43   Well, I think part of me wants to believe that they have sort of learned a lesson from

00:05:51   iOS 10 and the kind of reception that iPad users and the tech press in general had to

00:05:57   — the iPad basically skipping a year.

00:06:00   So I want to believe that — I mean, I don't think we'll get another iOS 11 style of major

00:06:08   iPad release, but at least sort of keep iterating upon what you shipped this year.

00:06:14   Like maybe make the multitasking UI better, address some of the concerns and missing features

00:06:21   for drag and drop.

00:06:23   Maybe we could get something like a shelf in iOS 12.

00:06:26   You know, they've never given that dream up, are you?

00:06:28   You're never going to let it go.

00:06:29   I feel like this will be the thing you'll talk about forever.

00:06:32   I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna, it just makes more sense.

00:06:34   This is a whole other topic that I feel like this will become my version of the Spatial

00:06:40   Finder that is for Syracuse.

00:06:42   I think so.

00:06:43   Like I know this is going to come up in your review.

00:06:45   You're going to write a really big thing about it.

00:06:47   And then like you'll talk about it all year and then your next concept video will be based

00:06:51   it just won't even be about iOS 11 anymore.

00:06:53   It would just be like the shelf concept video.

00:06:56   It would just carry on and on and on.

00:06:59   We have the whole summer ahead of us to talk about our awesome drag and drop piece.

00:07:04   Do you think that the shelf will probably be a deep and open framework?

00:07:13   I feel like I don't want to talk to you anymore because you're just gonna keep bringing this

00:07:23   up on the messages framework.

00:07:25   it's your thing that just anything I say that's your standard reply yeah like is

00:07:31   it a deep and open framework and yes it's an important question it should be

00:07:35   okay okay it should be a deep and open framework okay yeah I feel like if the

00:07:41   two of you stop talking it's gonna make my work on this podcast a lot harder

00:07:46   Myke Federico said this do you have response Myke isn't agreeing with I'm

00:07:52   I'm just gonna say, if you could tell Federico, please,

00:07:56   that I care about him.

00:07:58   I'm mostly in agreement with you, Federico,

00:08:01   about the way that iOS will probably run.

00:08:04   I think that maybe I would say

00:08:06   that I don't expect a lot of features for iOS 12, right?

00:08:11   Like, I think that there should be,

00:08:13   and there hopefully will be refinements and fixes,

00:08:14   but not like really big stuff.

00:08:16   I think we're gonna see iPhone and iPad

00:08:19   kind of share a TikTok schedule now with iOS.

00:08:23   I think that just makes a lot of sense

00:08:24   just from what, like the aspect of what features

00:08:27   you can even come up with.

00:08:29   Because the iPhone is so mature at this point

00:08:31   that I think it's becoming harder and harder

00:08:33   to add real meaningful things to it.

00:08:36   So it would make sense I think if they put them

00:08:39   on these two years cycles but have a yearly,

00:08:42   can keep a yearly cycle of iOS.

00:08:44   I think that makes a lot of sense.

00:08:45   Myke, you have started a brand war with Logitech.

00:08:49   - Look, I just don't like the case, all right?

00:08:53   I really don't like it.

00:08:55   I spoke about it last week.

00:08:56   I'm not on my own.

00:08:58   Serenity Caldwell wrote a review on iMore

00:09:00   about the Logitech Slim Combo case,

00:09:03   and I think she mostly agreed

00:09:04   with a lot of the problems that I had.

00:09:07   She was maybe a little bit more charitable than I was.

00:09:09   I still have to take my case and return it.

00:09:12   Like, it's been sitting in a box.

00:09:14   I'm never gonna use it again.

00:09:15   And then after last week's episode, Kevin sent a tweet

00:09:20   where he showed the thickness of the slim combo case

00:09:26   side by side of a unibody 13 inch MacBook,

00:09:30   which has an optical drive, which you can see in the image.

00:09:33   - Pre-retina.

00:09:34   - And it's thicker. - It's so bad.

00:09:36   - It's thicker than that MacBook.

00:09:38   And then I retweeted this,

00:09:40   a bunch of people were talking to me,

00:09:41   to the point that Logitech social media felt like

00:09:44   they needed to jump in on this, to which they tweeted, "The Slim combo was designed and

00:09:50   created to provide the ultimate protection for your iPad, which is important to us."

00:09:54   I understand that, but maybe you shouldn't have called it Slim. Maybe you should have

00:09:58   just called it Rugged, or like the protective case. I feel like if what you were going for

00:10:03   was ultimate protection, then don't make something so thick and try and call it Slim.

00:10:07   I feel like you only call a product like this Slim because you know how thick it is. So

00:10:13   I would just say I really don't like that case.

00:10:16   If you like the case, that's good for you, but I feel like Logitech took everything that

00:10:21   was good about the create and ruined it and then created the slim combo.

00:10:26   So don't buy it.

00:10:27   That's, I give a big don't buy.

00:10:29   Yeah.

00:10:30   I mean, I took a look at some photos and it's just the, what the product is, is the complete

00:10:37   opposite of what the product name says.

00:10:41   Like, that is not a slim case. Maybe slim is an acronym. It's not the real English

00:10:49   adjective. Super large in materials.

00:10:52   Super large iPad, M stands for, I don't know, massiveness. Super large iPad, massiveness.

00:11:02   Okay, in that case, slim makes sense, I guess, but it's not the same slim that you can find

00:11:11   in the dictionary, that's all.

00:11:12   I mean, just look at it.

00:11:14   So bad.

00:11:16   That's great.

00:11:19   Last week we spoke about Planet of the Apps and one of the contestants, for lack of a

00:11:25   better word, I guess we'll call them contestants, on the show was this guy, the guy who never

00:11:28   saw his kids because he was working on an AR app that you could point your living room

00:11:33   and put furniture in your living room and see how it came out.

00:11:36   And on the show, it was questioned if that was something that was unique to his company.

00:11:42   And then Apple did ARKit, basically giving these tools to everybody, not just this guy

00:11:48   who never sees his kids.

00:11:50   Anyways, yesterday on TechCrunch, our friend Matt Panzareno wrote an article kind of putting

00:11:55   all this together, talking about Pear, the name of the app, and how basically all that

00:12:03   custom stuff, all the custom stuff work they did, ARKit can now do for you, it seems like.

00:12:09   This is partnered with an article about IKEA.

00:12:13   IKEA's "Digital Transformation Manager," which we have to pause and talk about that job title

00:12:17   for a second.

00:12:19   What does that actually mean?

00:12:20   Is he like the digital prophet for IKEA?

00:12:23   Yeah, basically it digitally transforms you.

00:12:25   I've worked in a company that has digital transformation managers.

00:12:29   What?

00:12:30   What do they do?

00:12:31   What is that?

00:12:32   What does a person do?

00:12:35   The real world translation of that job title is "We are an old, slow company that doesn't

00:12:41   understand computers, and we need somebody to make us understand and use computers, therefore

00:12:47   transforming the company digitally."

00:12:50   That's what that job title tends to mean.

00:12:52   So it kind of fits for this person, right? Like he's trying to make IKEA make this app,

00:12:56   so he's trying to make IKEA more computer friendly. It is, like most job titles, ridiculous,

00:13:04   but that's kind of, I think, the literal translation of what that job is all about.

00:13:08   All right, that makes sense.

00:13:09   So Michael Waldsgaard, who holds the grand title of Digital Transformation Manager at

00:13:15   IKEA, said that this is the first augmented reality app that allows you to make reliable

00:13:21   buying decisions.

00:13:43   The plan at the moment for the app that they're building would be that you would take pictures

00:13:47   of your home, go to an IKEA store, and then you see a product that you want to put in

00:13:53   your home, and then you can put a virtual 3D model of it inside the picture of your

00:13:57   home.

00:13:58   Now this seems okay, but it seems like the opposite way that I think I would want to

00:14:04   use this product.

00:14:05   I would want to be able to be in my home

00:14:09   and then choose products and then look at them in my home,

00:14:14   as opposed to take pictures of my home

00:14:16   and then go to an IKEA store.

00:14:18   I feel like they got it the wrong way around.

00:14:19   Yeah.

00:14:20   Agreed.

00:14:22   Maybe you can do that.

00:14:23   Maybe it's something that's kind of just

00:14:25   got lost in the discussion.

00:14:27   But I hope that that's going to be the case.

00:14:29   But something I found interesting,

00:14:32   Valsgaard says that Apple's AR technology is so good

00:14:35   that the positioning of products will be millimeter precise,

00:14:38   with sizes and lighting completely accurate.

00:14:40   And they expect to have between 5,000 and 6,000 products

00:14:43   available in the application at launch.

00:14:45   I really hope that there's a way to do this at home.

00:14:47   Yeah, I mean, well, you've been to IKEA now, right?

00:14:50   You've seen it.

00:14:50   It's--

00:14:51   Oh, yeah.

00:14:52   But I'm saying we're either going to have five or 600.

00:14:55   Like--

00:14:56   Oh.

00:14:57   Maybe just five.

00:14:58   Maybe it's just going to be the same bookcase and five

00:15:00   different colors.

00:15:01   No, no, no.

00:15:02   I don't think it means between five and 600.

00:15:03   it's 500 to 600 is what it means to follow.

00:15:07   No, then the writer of this article did a terrible job.

00:15:10   This is a thing.

00:15:11   I read it, it's five products.

00:15:12   You're reading it incorrectly.

00:15:13   They do not mean between five products and 600 products.

00:15:17   It's between five to 600 products.

00:15:20   Quite the range of options there.

00:15:21   I'm very willing to put money down on this.

00:15:25   They do not mean between five products and 600 products.

00:15:29   We may have seven, we may have 480.

00:15:32   It's really hard to tell.

00:15:33   - Technically correct.

00:15:34   - If that was true, they wouldn't even say.

00:15:37   They would just say arrange, right?

00:15:40   - Yeah.

00:15:41   - I'm looking forward to playing with the IKEA app,

00:15:43   but I hope I can do it at home without having to go to IKEA.

00:15:47   - Me too, I just bought a bookcase for my studio

00:15:51   and you have the deal of like,

00:15:53   I measured where it's gonna sit, right?

00:15:56   I wrote down all the dimensions,

00:15:57   like it's going under a window on the small wall

00:16:00   and wrote down all the dimensions in my notebook

00:16:02   and scouring their website and finding the bookcase

00:16:05   that would fit those dimensions and how's it gonna fit.

00:16:08   You never really know until you put it in the room

00:16:11   how it's gonna look and how it's gonna fit.

00:16:13   And for me, there were two sizes I could've chosen.

00:16:16   I chose the smaller and I'm happy with that,

00:16:18   but just unsure.

00:16:20   And this sort of technology could change all of that.

00:16:23   And I think that's exciting.

00:16:26   And I mean, yeah, you feel bad for the Planet of the Apps guy

00:16:29   but this is clearly where this sort of stuff is going.

00:16:33   And you can see IKEA doing it,

00:16:35   but you can see all sorts of design companies.

00:16:39   And I was talking to somebody who works

00:16:42   in the construction business and talking to them about this.

00:16:46   And their point of view is like,

00:16:48   what if you took the outside of a house

00:16:50   and you could change the paint color,

00:16:52   change what the roof looked like,

00:16:54   change the shutters, change the landscaping.

00:16:57   And there are some apps that do that.

00:16:59   very specialized right now, but ARKit means that potentially this will be a lot easier

00:17:04   to do and they were excited about the possibilities in that field as well.

00:17:08   So I think ARKit is going to open up a lot more than just gaming or just like fun stuff

00:17:14   like actually being useful in a bunch of different professional fields.

00:17:19   There is something so beautiful about the very first contestant on behind, oh my god,

00:17:24   Planet of the Apps, being Sherlock'd.

00:17:27   is something so beautiful about that. He was sure locked by a deep and open

00:17:32   framework. I guess so. Yeah in fact I put the the iOS 11 AR kit demo, the one from

00:17:40   Apple on my iPhone yesterday. I had to use Xcode which was fun and I've been

00:17:44   and I've been playing around with the with the app and it's a really basic

00:17:48   demo you can you can use the camera to point at a surface and once that's been

00:17:53   detected you can place objects on the on a table or on the floor as long as it's a horizontal

00:17:59   surface and you can put an espresso cup which is empty, a vase, a lamp, even a chair I think

00:18:06   and it's kind of neat because the 3D models are accurate and you can move around with

00:18:12   the camera, the tracking is impressive, you can pinch and zoom with your fingers to change

00:18:18   the size of the object and it's super fun because you can actually, for example with

00:18:22   the lamp, if you stand over it, you can sort of look into the lamp and look at the light

00:18:28   bulb for example.

00:18:29   Oh that's nice.

00:18:30   It's super neat.

00:18:31   Yeah that's very nice and it gives you a sense of space and perspective that, you know, it's

00:18:35   much more advanced than stuff like Pokemon Go for example.

00:18:38   So it doesn't surprise me that a lot of these big companies like Niantic and IKEA, they

00:18:42   want to get onto the ARKit train because I think that Apple is simplifying a lot of the

00:18:48   work that used to be, for example, the guy on the TV show, used to be a lot of custom,

00:18:54   you know, 3D modeling and spatial tracking, all of this custom stuff that you had to do.

00:18:58   Now it's, you know, it can be simplified by an iOS framework, which is great.

00:19:02   So if you haven't played with ARKit yet, just download the sample project from the WWDC

00:19:08   resources page, use Xcode, put it on your iPhone and play with it.

00:19:12   It's kind of fun.

00:19:13   Easy.

00:19:14   Yeah.

00:19:15   Sounds...

00:19:16   It's really not that difficult actually.

00:19:17   Okay, I guess it's one of those things that sounds scarier than it is if you've never

00:19:21   used Xcode.

00:19:22   It does.

00:19:23   Yeah, it does.

00:19:24   It's super easy.

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00:20:41   So there have been some HomeKit changes that have been announced to come with iOS 11. There

00:20:48   were some that I think were on stage in the keynote and then there's been some more information

00:20:52   that's started to trickle out since people have been paying attention and writing about

00:20:56   some of the sessions. So there are a few things that I wanted to touch on and then we've got

00:21:01   some news that's happening around HomeKit with iOS 11 as well. So first up there are

00:21:06   some new product categories that are being added to HomeKit. We saw speakers, that was

00:21:11   one of the ones that was announced on stage and is probably you know for in

00:21:14   part the the home pod maybe I don't know but two others are sprinklers and

00:21:19   faucets now I would love I'm gonna change it to British English now I would

00:21:23   love a tap that I could make sure was turned off when I wasn't at home like I

00:21:28   don't know what else you could really do with with having a internet controlled

00:21:33   tap maybe you can control the temperature but the idea of being able

00:21:36   to check that my taps are off when I've left the house for a trip vacation would be fantastic.

00:21:42   I would love that, right?

00:21:43   Like that seems like a really good use of this technology.

00:21:46   All I want to be able to do really is just make sure that my house isn't going to flood

00:21:50   or burn down.

00:21:51   That's all I ever really want and the ability to be able to check that my taps are off with

00:21:55   HomeKit would be really cool.

00:21:57   I like that.

00:21:58   Yeah, the sprinkler thing could be cool too if you have, you know, a lot of sprinkler

00:22:04   sprinkler systems, like if you have a yard, are set with timers that are very basic.

00:22:09   And so sometimes you drive through the neighborhood and sprinklers are going and it's pouring

00:22:13   down rain because the thing's on a timer and it's too stupid to know it's raining.

00:22:16   So I can see a world in which this stuff knows about the weather.

00:22:21   So hey, if it hasn't rained in 24 hours and it's this time, then run the sprinklers for

00:22:25   x number of minutes or something.

00:22:28   So it's about making, you know, dumb stuff smarter and not just light bulbs anymore,

00:22:33   but uh, but you know, sort of outside stuff too.

00:22:36   I think this is great.

00:22:37   I bet that there's some like sensors that you could put in the ground as well, right,

00:22:43   that could sense the dryness of the soil.

00:22:46   Oh I'm sure.

00:22:47   It's kind of cool.

00:22:48   QR code and NFC pairing is a new addition for HomeKit and iOS 11.

00:22:53   So this is official support for pairing with Viva Method.

00:22:56   So this probably explains some of the changes that were on the work cloud slides at WWDC.

00:23:00   There's some NFC related stuff, right, that's just changing.

00:23:04   Is it that the phone can become a reader?

00:23:06   Was that what it was?

00:23:07   Which is new?

00:23:08   Yeah, it can basically pair with a nearby NFC device.

00:23:12   It's not the full integration that some people were hoping for, but it's a good step forward.

00:23:17   And the QR code stuff is actually like a system-wide change.

00:23:22   The iOS camera can now detect any kind of QR code, whether that's a QR code that contains

00:23:27   a link, so once the camera finds a QR code you get a banner that prompts you to open

00:23:33   the link in Safari, or it can even be, besides a HomeKit device, it can also be a WiFi network,

00:23:40   so when you scan the QR code behind a router, usually on the bottom of the box, you get

00:23:46   a prompt that allows you to quickly pair with the new WiFi network, so you don't need to

00:23:50   do the whole manual setup, which is kind of neat.

00:23:53   I look forward to interacting with Billboard advertisements.

00:23:57   Now that my iPhone will be able to scan it, that's going to be great.

00:24:01   Software authentication and self-certification.

00:24:03   Now correct me if I'm wrong, but this seems like a huge, huge deal for HomeKit.

00:24:08   So my understanding is, with the software authentication, it could allow older devices

00:24:13   that don't have a physical HomeKit chip in them to have HomeKit support added via a software

00:24:18   update, which I assume would stop the need of all of the bridges needing to be bought.

00:24:23   Am I right Federico?

00:24:26   So I haven't looked at the technical documentation yet, but that's also my understanding.

00:24:31   I'm not sure if, and I just want to confirm if that's actually also allowed for commercial

00:24:40   purposes, like can you actually sell devices that don't have a HomeKit chip, but do the

00:24:44   self-certification or is that just for debugging?

00:24:48   So that's what I want to understand.

00:24:49   But the basic idea is correct, which is you can use software to authenticate and sort

00:24:57   of say I am capable of talking to HomeKit and I'm handling these authentication and

00:25:02   permissions via software.

00:25:05   I need to make sure...

00:25:06   It can be used at large scale or if it's just a small scale thing.

00:25:09   Yeah, like can I buy a switch on Amazon that doesn't have a HomeKit chip but as like with

00:25:14   the software update it's gonna work.

00:25:16   what I want to understand. And along with this is something called the HomeKit

00:25:20   Certification Assistant which is being created to allow for accessories to be

00:25:23   certified and Apple's opening some HomeKit labs I think is it in the US the

00:25:27   UK and one of a place maybe Australia I can't remember off the top of my head I

00:25:32   didn't write it down there's three places that they're opening these new

00:25:35   HomeKit certification labs so people can take their devices in and get

00:25:39   assistance I think and there's improved latency so when you want to do something

00:25:44   your home kit, it will happen quicker, and some new event-based triggers. Federico, do

00:25:48   you want to talk about these new triggers?

00:25:50   The idea behind the new triggers is that you get more controls over time-based triggers,

00:25:58   like you can do relative commands like "one hour before sunset" or "two hours after sunrise",

00:26:04   so you have more control over timers. But the big change, and something that I was tweeting

00:26:10   a few months ago, I actually even forgot about my tweets until someone sent them to me.

00:26:15   It's the idea of presence.

00:26:17   So you can now have triggers that account for the presence of family members inside

00:26:24   the house.

00:26:25   So I can say things like "when Sylvia walks out the door, make sure that the light is

00:26:30   turned off".

00:26:31   Again, I haven't tried because not all of my devices are on iOS 11 yet, but I saw the

00:26:37   screenshots and I saw the new automation screen in the Home app and there's the concept of

00:26:42   presence, it's a new trigger in the HomeKit API, so that's great because I've always thought

00:26:50   that one of the major missing features was the idea of do things when someone is or is

00:26:57   not at home and to my surprise now HomeKit has an official setting for presence and it

00:27:04   It also accounts for multiple users and I suppose that it connects directly with the

00:27:11   idea of family sharing for HomeKit where you can manage permissions for multiple users.

00:27:15   So that's great and ideally developers don't have to do any work for this.

00:27:20   Developers don't have to manage my family members because the iOS framework does that

00:27:25   natively so you just basically plug into that.

00:27:28   The accessory plugs into the rules and when something happens and it's detected by the

00:27:32   HomeKit hub or by iOS devices, then the trigger is engaged and the automation runs.

00:27:39   Which is great, because now I have much more control between the time-based rules and the

00:27:44   presence conditions.

00:27:46   Now it basically opens up a much wider array of possible automations for HomeKit, which

00:27:52   I feel like it's the kind of control and the kind of precision that was missing from the

00:27:59   original set of automation commands. So thumbs up if it actually works and is fast and is

00:28:06   reliable.

00:28:07   Yeah, I mean there's so much more interesting stuff that you can do with these triggers

00:28:13   and with the actions and the things that you're able to support, which are not just like "happen

00:28:17   at 9am every day", like that's not always what you need, because if I'm not there then

00:28:23   you don't do it.

00:28:24   Exactly.

00:28:25   And so I think that there's, things become a lot smarter once you can start adding some

00:28:30   of these conditions in.

00:28:31   And I'm pleased that Apple are doing this.

00:28:34   I mean, on the whole I'm pleased to see a lot more of the underpinnings happening to

00:28:39   HomeKit.

00:28:40   You know, like I really want to see Apple stay competitive with this, because as with

00:28:45   a lot of things that they do, they make it more tricky based on their security.

00:28:48   But the security is a really good thing.

00:28:50   Like I mean I'm still not keen on getting a door lock, right?

00:28:56   There's just something about that that I'm a little bit uncomfortable about right now.

00:29:01   But with some of this stuff, you know, I think you can do door locks with HomeKit as well.

00:29:05   I would maybe be a little bit more convinced to do it with Apple than with anybody else.

00:29:11   So I'm just in general happier to see a lot more being added to HomeKit.

00:29:16   Because I do really like the service.

00:29:17   I find HomeKit to be quicker at doing some things than anything else, just with regards

00:29:22   to latency and how long it takes to perform an action.

00:29:25   So I'm pleased to see this improving and improving with the eventual support on a deep scale

00:29:31   coming to something like the HomePod.

00:29:34   What I'm not sure is if in the UI, and I'm fairly sure that right now this is not available,

00:29:41   But if you can actually nest these conditions and have them, for example, things like if

00:29:48   it's 5am and I am at home.

00:29:51   So to be able to have dual conditions.

00:29:55   And right now I'm pretty sure that it's not available.

00:29:58   So you can either choose is it a time of the day or is someone arrived at home or has someone

00:30:05   left home.

00:30:07   Whereas I would like to see the next step of let me combine time with the presence condition,

00:30:14   that would be ideal.

00:30:15   Instead, right now they seem to be separate, which it is a step forward, it's just almost

00:30:21   there and I want to see Apple have proper support for this idea of the presence inside

00:30:26   the home and so we'll see how it goes, maybe it'll get added in a future beta, I don't

00:30:33   know.

00:30:34   if only if only Apple had a team of people in their company that were good

00:30:38   at allowing you to chain actions together. I feel like you're yeah I feel

00:30:42   like you're asking for too much from a startup. You know like if only they

00:30:48   had hired really good people at creating some kind of flow of work. Yeah but you know nobody cares about automation these

00:30:57   days. It's long gone. Steven do you want to talk about Nest?

00:31:02   Yeah so in in all this HomeKit news there was a story that Nest was

00:31:09   considering adding HomeKit support to its products. On occasion Nest

00:31:15   releases new products now again which is exciting they seem to be doing stuff

00:31:20   again. Most would be great I've spoken at length about my Nest cams and wanting

00:31:25   them to be available via HomeKit. I mean right now Nest is sort of a closed off

00:31:30   system. One thing that Nest does, in particular you're talking about like the

00:31:34   nested options and the present stuff, Nest does a really good job at that. So

00:31:39   our cameras only turn on if both of our phones are away from the house and it's

00:31:45   easy to do. You set up another you know sharing account and you kind of tell it

00:31:48   what devices to pay attention to. That stuff's all really good with what Nest

00:31:53   does but you know everything else you got to use their app it's a closed

00:31:57   system so I would like to see them consider this I'm sure that you know it

00:32:01   would be for new products moving forward unless they can get away without having

00:32:05   you know HomeKit hardware authentication but it's encouraging that it's rumored

00:32:10   at least that they're looking at it because I think they should I think that

00:32:12   Apple is putting a lot of muscle behind HomeKit and they are, especially with the

00:32:17   HomePod coming, it's going to be a big emphasis for the company and Nest

00:32:21   should play nicely.

00:32:24   And who knows, it may be that Nest has wanted to do this, and under the old system Apple

00:32:31   just didn't let them.

00:32:32   There's a lot of history between Nest and Apple with Tony Fidell, who is now at neither

00:32:38   company.

00:32:39   But maybe that's in the past now and they can move forward and work together somehow.

00:32:45   It would be good.

00:32:46   Nest is one of the original home automation companies.

00:32:50   In theory they still have a lot of really great people there, right?

00:32:53   They're still releasing new products.

00:32:55   Google bought them for a reason.

00:32:57   They want this stuff to be made.

00:32:59   I mean I can't imagine that Google are keen on just having this company that made this

00:33:02   thermostat one time and then they just don't do anything else.

00:33:05   Oh well, I mean sure, that's why they canned all their management.

00:33:09   I think they're getting there slowly.

00:33:11   So I think it would be really silly for a company that makes this stuff to not support

00:33:16   all of the major platforms to tie this stuff together.

00:33:19   Agreed.

00:33:20   you know, they have the ability,

00:33:22   I think you control this stuff with your Echo, can you?

00:33:25   There's like an integration, I think?

00:33:28   - There is, at least with the thermostat.

00:33:30   I would need to look about the cameras, honestly.

00:33:32   - Okay, I mean, and you know,

00:33:33   I assume that you can run some of this stuff

00:33:35   with Google Home as well,

00:33:36   and considering the fact that Nest

00:33:39   is one of the parts of Alphabet

00:33:40   which is separate in its own way,

00:33:43   it would be silly for me, for them to not support HomeKit,

00:33:47   or at least attempt to.

00:33:48   would be a very very strange decision to make.

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00:35:55   So we've had a lot of questions from listeners about our process and mindset when it comes

00:36:01   to running betas during the summer. And so Myke, I ask you, are you running betas this

00:36:07   summer?

00:36:08   Oh hey.

00:36:09   Tell us about your beta, Myke.

00:36:12   Right now, in the process, no I am not. So I mentioned in last week's episode that I

00:36:17   hadn't had much time to play with my 12.9 inch iPad because I was restoring it. Because

00:36:23   I put the beta on it and I dragged an app into a folder and the spring ball crashed

00:36:29   and then all I could do was get to the Apple logo. Wouldn't go past that. About two days

00:36:35   I did the same thing to the 10.5. I think I was just opening an app and the springboard

00:36:41   crashed and I had to restore the iPad, the 10.5 inch iPad. So I'm going to wait a little

00:36:49   bit longer I think at this point because I'm not keen on doing a hard restore into DFU

00:36:55   mode with iTunes every couple of days for my iPads. So I'm maybe going to wait an extra

00:37:00   to

00:37:15   I'm going to

00:37:29   that's a full Xaren for me.

00:37:32   I mean, I don't even really want to be running Sierra

00:37:35   on my Mac right now, but I needed to.

00:37:37   Sierra has introduced some bugs in audio for me,

00:37:40   which I'm so excited about.

00:37:42   So I do not expect to be upgrading Mac OS at all,

00:37:47   let alone to the beta.

00:37:50   - Hmm.

00:37:51   - Steven?

00:37:52   - So I'm not running iOS 11 anywhere at this point.

00:37:57   I'll jump on that train later this summer.

00:38:00   I am running High Sierra on an external SSD on my MacBook Pro, so I can plug that in and

00:38:07   boot to it, but I am not running it full-time or anything close to full-time, really just

00:38:12   so I can kind of start putting some ideas together for a review this fall.

00:38:16   But, you know, it's really early days and I've got work to do and I don't need my iPad

00:38:22   or my iPhone exploding, so I'm staying off iOS for the time being.

00:38:26   I see in Federico that you're not gonna put the beta on anything.

00:38:30   Like you're just gonna wait for release, right?

00:38:32   Yeah, I always wait for the public release. I'm really against betas.

00:38:36   I never run betas of OSs or apps on my devices.

00:38:40   Because you could ruin them.

00:38:42   Yeah, I like to keep... Actually, you know what I do?

00:38:45   I'm actually still on iOS 9 because I don't trust software update.

00:38:50   I think Apple wants to make your phones slower.

00:38:53   And they might change the UI again.

00:38:55   I'm really against change, I don't like redesigns and if I could I'd still run iOS 6, I'm one of those people.

00:39:04   I had a dream last night, do you want to hear about my dream?

00:39:06   Yes I do.

00:39:07   Actually it was this morning, I know that everybody wants to hear about my dream.

00:39:11   So I was having a dream where I was awake, in my mind I was awake, I didn't know this was a dream.

00:39:17   And my alarm kept going off on my phone, what was happening in the real world was that my alarm was going off on my phone.

00:39:23   Ah okay.

00:39:24   And I was trying to turn my alarm off.

00:39:27   And in my dream, I'm not kidding,

00:39:29   I am going to every single one of my iOS devices

00:39:32   and turning the volume down on all of them.

00:39:34   But the alarm kept going off, right?

00:39:38   And I couldn't stop it.

00:39:39   And then I picked up my iPhone

00:39:42   and somehow my iPhone had regressed to iOS 6.

00:39:46   (laughing)

00:39:47   Right?

00:39:48   And I'm trying to like turn off my alarm

00:39:50   by like flicking these like brushed aluminium switches

00:39:54   in the alarm app, like in the clock app.

00:39:57   And I'm like, "What is going on?"

00:39:59   And then they started moving around

00:40:01   to like create some kind of game.

00:40:02   And at that point I realized this can't be real.

00:40:06   And then I woke up and turned my alarm off.

00:40:08   - That's incredible.

00:40:10   - That was never a thing in iOS 6 that the toggles

00:40:14   would spin around like a game.

00:40:16   - I mean, it was close to it.

00:40:17   But like, it was funny to me

00:40:19   that what brought me out of the dream was iOS 6 on my iPhone.

00:40:23   - Yeah. - Right?

00:40:24   'Cause there was just no way.

00:40:25   - Your dream brain is against skeuomorphism.

00:40:30   - That's very true. - Can take it.

00:40:32   - That's very true.

00:40:32   I can't, 'cause it doesn't feel real, you know?

00:40:35   - Yeah.

00:40:36   Well, so in a, let's switch to serious mode.

00:40:41   I have betas on all of my primary iOS devices.

00:40:47   iOS 11 beta 1 is on my iPhone 7 Plus.

00:40:50   It's on my new 12.9 inch iPad Pro, which I bought last week.

00:40:55   I'm keeping iOS 10 on the 10.5 iPad Pro for now,

00:41:01   because I feel like I want a stable version of iOS,

00:41:07   primarily because a lot of the apps that I use,

00:41:10   actually a lot of the workflows that I use,

00:41:12   they don't run on iOS 11.

00:41:14   The workflow extension, for example,

00:41:16   doesn't come up in Safari at the moment,

00:41:18   which is a big problem for me because of the storyboard,

00:41:20   because of the Trello workflows that we have.

00:41:22   - Have you filed a radar?

00:41:24   - You know what?

00:41:25   I have filed 10 radars in the past week.

00:41:27   I'm actually telling Apple to fix some things

00:41:30   and to sort of arguing about some aspects

00:41:33   that I don't agree with the execution.

00:41:35   So that's another story for another time.

00:41:37   But yes, I am doing my job as a beta user.

00:41:41   - Good man.

00:41:42   - And it's rough.

00:41:44   I'm telling you, my iPad is not crashing as badly as yours did, but I'm finding myself

00:41:53   like sometimes when I'm watching sessions in the WWCE app with notes in Split View,

00:41:58   sometimes you know when you rearrange Split View and sort of the app view kind of blurs

00:42:04   when you're changing the layout?

00:42:07   It gets stuck that way and the home button doesn't respond, locking the iPad and unlocking

00:42:14   it again doesn't respond, so I need to force the shutdown and power it on again.

00:42:19   Yeah, that's not good.

00:42:21   Yeah, maybe I cannot navigate between home screen pages or maybe Spotlight doesn't come

00:42:27   up.

00:42:28   Of course there's tweetbot crashes when you try to paste the link.

00:42:32   Here's a quick tip if you're running iOS 11 and tweetbot crashes when you want to paste

00:42:36   a URL to a web page.

00:42:38   Make sure that you paste the link first and then you type your text.

00:42:42   way the app is not gonna crash. Anyway, TGTIP. Yeah, TGTIP. Beta TGTIP. All kinds of issues, but

00:42:49   I am enjoying the changes very much. The drag and drop between... I'm using drag and drop between

00:42:56   Notes and Safari a lot, and also between Mail and Todoist, because Todoist in the comment

00:43:05   field of a task. It's a standard text view so it already supports drop by

00:43:10   default. So I'm dropping things like links from an email message or like

00:43:15   entire paragraphs from an email to save them as a reminder in Todoist, which is

00:43:22   great. I'm enjoying dropping photos, primarily screenshots, between the photos

00:43:29   app and messages or the photos app and mail and I cannot wait for all apps to

00:43:34   support drag and drop in multiple variations of it like I want to

00:43:38   rearrange content inside of the app, I want to do spring loading and I want to

00:43:41   do all that kind of cool stuff that Apple show the WWDC that is not

00:43:45   available right now and even I feel like even in the Apple apps right now

00:43:50   there's a lot of inconsistency like when you try to drag an email message onto a

00:43:55   text view sometimes it keeps the subject of the email other times it

00:44:01   takes the link to the email message which is great but sometimes it works, other times it doesn't.

00:44:07   Overall I'm really excited to change because all of my workflows are going to change, right?

00:44:14   File management with the Files app and drag and drop and even Workflow if they ever

00:44:20   ship an iOS 11 update. And right now I feel like I'm lost in this sea of

00:44:30   potential and bugs and I'm trying to understand, trying to see the light.

00:44:38   I know this will be great in the end because I see all of this potential but

00:44:43   I'm sort of struggling, I'm sort of lost in the woods here and because there's

00:44:47   all these crashes and bugs and reboots so I'm really hoping that beta 2 will be

00:44:53   better. I was hoping that we would get beta 2 yesterday but it didn't come

00:44:58   so maybe next week. Yeah, it's rough but I think it'll be very, very nice eventually.

00:45:07   And of course I'm using iOS 11 to write the iOS 11 review which seems appropriate.

00:45:12   Are you finding it to be more stable or less stable on the iPhone?

00:45:16   Oh, less stable.

00:45:18   Than on the iPad?

00:45:20   I feel like it's much better on the new hardware, the 12.9, because I also tried on the 10.5

00:45:28   before going back to iOS 10.

00:45:31   And I feel like it's much snappier

00:45:33   on the new generation iPads than the iPhone 7.

00:45:36   Yeah.

00:45:37   - So you're running it on your iPhone,

00:45:39   and which one of your iPads did you say?

00:45:41   - The 12.9.

00:45:42   - All right, so the new one.

00:45:44   So you're actually running this on your daily iPad and phone.

00:45:49   Wow, you're a brave man.

00:45:50   I know why you do it, right?

00:45:51   You have a really, there's a really good reason,

00:45:53   'cause you've gotta start work on the review,

00:45:55   but like, that's gotta be tough.

00:45:57   That's gonna be real tough.

00:45:58   It is, and especially, you know,

00:46:02   like sometimes I need to do something quickly

00:46:04   and the entire thing comes crashing down.

00:46:08   I was trying to save a link for the Max Stories guys

00:46:13   to Trello to be like, "Hey, can someone take a look at this?"

00:46:18   The entire thing crashed.

00:46:20   Like, oh God, what have I gotten myself into here?

00:46:24   But it comes with the territory, you know, I gotta do this.

00:46:28   There's no other way to be like, yeah, sure, I'll just put the beta in July and then I'll

00:46:33   write the review in two weeks.

00:46:35   That's not gonna work.

00:46:36   So don't do it now because beta one is super buggy.

00:46:41   I would actually wait for beta, yeah, four, five, that makes more sense to me.

00:46:47   Yeah.

00:46:48   It's getting way closer.

00:46:49   I have a question for you too.

00:46:50   do you think or do you have any idea of when the public beta might be available?

00:46:54   So Apple said at the end of June. So I'm thinking that Apple is gonna do the beta 2 next week,

00:47:01   wait a few days, make sure that everything is fine, no huge problems, and maybe on Thursday,

00:47:08   Friday we'll get beta, the public beta, because I'm not sure if the, what's the last Monday

00:47:15   of June? If it's June 30, then there you go, they're gonna do it June 30.

00:47:19   last Monday of June is next Monday. Okay so yeah I think we'll get the public beta

00:47:24   idea in the like mid next week. So you're expecting that beta 2 for developers

00:47:31   will drop before then? Oh yeah it always does it always does because they again

00:47:36   what's it's a it's a public beta anyone can put the beta on their iPhones so

00:47:40   they want to make sure that it doesn't make your phone explode. Yeah yeah the

00:47:46   really good. I find that to be the best thing. So I have a question for you, right?

00:47:51   What are the chances that we could see an app like Dropbox support something

00:47:57   like files.app before release? Is there any possibility at all of this?

00:48:02   I don't think so because traditionally they, and even if Apple is doing some

00:48:08   things differently, I struggle to see how they would enable submissions for a new

00:48:12   SDK before Xcode 9 actually launches and how is it gonna work.

00:48:19   Some developers are gonna be able to submit and others won't and usually the way it works

00:48:24   is they are gonna open up TestFlight for testing sometime in the next few weeks and the submissions

00:48:32   will actually happen after the September event.

00:48:36   That's usually what happens.

00:48:38   But I don't think developers, I mean of course developers cannot support the new APIs right

00:48:43   now because they're not in the SDK.

00:48:46   And I don't think Apple wants to enable the iOS 11 submissions just for a subset of developers.

00:48:56   Because that would actually, it would be against the rules to enable that for some people and

00:49:02   not for others.

00:49:03   I could see maybe having a kind of special partnership and be like,

00:49:09   "Hey, we want to make sure with our friends at Dropbox that everything is working correctly,

00:49:14   so we're opening up a public test flight."

00:49:16   But that's kind of stretching it.

00:49:18   Because the reason I ask this is that I feel like the public papers are becoming less and

00:49:25   less useful because people can't test and Apple can't gather information and third parties

00:49:32   I can't gather information about whether some of these things are going to work

00:49:36   and how well they're going to work. Right?

00:49:38   Like I feel like part of the public beta process is to make sure that what's

00:49:43   happening in 11 will, will work. Right.

00:49:47   And I feel like the files app is such a big change that it's, I don't know,

00:49:52   I feel like it's a struggle that you can't do any of these things.

00:49:56   I feel like why even have the public beta if you can't,

00:49:59   if no third parties can get and try and test this stuff?

00:50:03   Well, I guess the big companies like Dropbox and Microsoft and Google,

00:50:09   they have teams of, let's say, 30, 40 people.

00:50:13   And once Apple rolls out the internal testing for TestFlight, which is separate

00:50:16   from the external testing,

00:50:18   the public testing, if it's not already open, it's going to be open

00:50:22   I would say in the next couple of weeks.

00:50:23   And once you get 20, 30 people

00:50:26   to be able to test Dropbox for iOS 11 internally using TestFlight,

00:50:32   I think that's fine.

00:50:35   You know, because usually, you know, 20 or 30 engineers looking deeply into the app

00:50:41   are better anyway than 2,000 people just testing the app for a couple of minutes.

00:50:46   You know, you can get...

00:50:48   I think you can catch most of the bugs and most of the problems. In terms of

00:50:52   iOS SDK integration, we're not talking here about the cloud service at scale because Dropbox

00:50:57   is already doing that. But once you get the internal testing set up and you get 20, 30,

00:51:03   40 engineers looking at the new SDK, looking at the new API, I can see how Apple thinks

00:51:08   that's fine.

00:51:09   I also just think that the public beta is minimizing the effects of the release. If

00:51:15   anyone can download the beta and it doesn't have any of the new features available to

00:51:20   you, then what's the point in doing it?

00:51:23   I've been thinking about that, and I think it's right to an extent.

00:51:28   People like us, it's definitely diminished the surprise effect of "it's September 16th,

00:51:34   let's all hit software update because we can finally install iOS 11".

00:51:39   So for people like us, it's definitely different now, and the public beta has opened up the

00:51:45   nerd floodgates to a lot of beta seats going out to the general public, but most people

00:51:51   don't do the public beta because you gotta sign up and there's a bunch of messages that

00:51:55   tell you "are you really sure this is gonna make your phone unstable?" and it's only meant

00:52:00   for testing the next... you know, people like my mom and my friends are not gonna sign up

00:52:04   for the public beta.

00:52:06   So for the few millions of nerds worldwide, yes, it has diminished the effect, but I believe

00:52:15   That's also why Apple doesn't want third-party apps to come out before, because third-party

00:52:20   apps are the actual surprise now.

00:52:22   You go to the App Store and you get all of these new apps that support the new features

00:52:26   on launch day.

00:52:27   So even if you're on the public beta, you still get the surprise of third-party app

00:52:31   integrations on day one.

00:52:33   Yeah, that's a good point.

00:52:35   That is a good point.

00:52:36   Have we got anything more on this, or should we move on?

00:52:40   Don't put beta 1 on your devices.

00:52:42   Yeah, don't.

00:52:43   That's my...

00:52:44   Also, I'm loving the screenshot feature. Whoever at Apple thought of this new markup floating screenshot, I love you.

00:52:51   And I wish we could be friends in real life because you're literally saving me dozens of minutes every day. So thank you.

00:52:56   Yeah, I got the opportunity to try that before I had to destroy everything and I really liked it. It was really cool.

00:53:04   But then I had to restore my iPads. Make sure you have backups if you are going to install anything.

00:53:09   Are you backing up more frequently Federico? Is this a thing? Do you like make sure your iCloud's backed up more often?

00:53:17   Yeah and also I make sure that the draft of the review like it gets saved in multiple places and like I'm a little more paranoid when it comes to doing production work on the beta.

00:53:29   beta so I check that iCloud always updates. I actually upgraded to the 2TB plan yesterday

00:53:37   because I want to try the family sharing thing with Sylvia. But yes, I am more anxious and

00:53:42   paranoid about backups actually working and occurring overnight every day and I keep my

00:53:48   work stuff in multiple locations now which include iCloud, Dropbox and GitHub in our

00:53:53   shared repo. So, yes, to your question.

00:53:57   Steven as our official backup safety officer, do you consider that to be a good setup that

00:54:03   Federico's running?

00:54:04   Yeah, I think so.

00:54:06   The one thing I would add, if you want to go back to iOS 10, you need to be careful

00:54:14   that your backup may not apply.

00:54:16   And so what I do when I get around to iOS 11 beta, I will make an iOS 10 backup, an

00:54:24   encrypted backup in iTunes on the Mac.

00:54:26   - I did that, I did that, are you proud of me?

00:54:28   - I am, because once you're on iOS 11

00:54:31   and the iCloud backup backs up your iOS 11 machine,

00:54:35   that backup, you can correct me if I'm wrong,

00:54:38   I don't think we'll go back on a iOS 10 device.

00:54:41   So I have that iTunes backup preserved in stone,

00:54:46   my iOS 10 image, and then let iCloud take it from there

00:54:51   for 11, but if you wanna go back, make sure you have

00:54:54   something that can encrypt a backup in iTunes.

00:54:56   It's very handy when things explode

00:54:58   and you need to go back to something stable.

00:55:01   - I guess maybe even if you keep an old device around on 10,

00:55:06   stuff's still gonna get synced backwards and forwards

00:55:08   and you could back up from that over iCloud, right?

00:55:11   - Yeah, I mean, yes, but--

00:55:16   - It would be perfect, but you at least have some form of--

00:55:20   - Right, and I mean, it's not the end of the world

00:55:22   to start over either, you know, but it's a real pain.

00:55:27   I did it with my 9.7 inch iPad Pro,

00:55:33   and so I've restored that back up to the 10.5.

00:55:38   It is nice to do every once in a while,

00:55:39   but I at least need a couple hours to sit down

00:55:42   and change everything and log back into everything

00:55:44   and set everything back up.

00:55:45   It's a little time consuming.

00:55:47   - I don't think I mentioned this before,

00:55:48   but that was what I did with both the 10.5 and the 12.9,

00:55:51   bought them and put them on 11. I started them fresh. So I set them both up. I took

00:55:55   the pains of setting them all up and then lost them all. Right? I lost an entire day

00:56:01   to that. So including switching over my 1Password from Dropbox to a 1Password account because

00:56:08   the Dropbox wouldn't sync.

00:56:10   Yeah, I mean that's not the topic for today but if you use my password you should definitely

00:56:17   look into that because it's really handy.

00:56:18   Especially if you're running the iOS 11 beta in your Mii because the dropbox syncs just

00:56:23   doesn't work so you can't get any of your passwords on the devices.

00:56:27   It's not their fault, it's just how it is, it was so early but now one password you just

00:56:32   got a new paying customer.

00:56:37   This episode of connected is brought to you by PDFPen from SMILE.

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00:57:45   business documents that I have. They're there for me and iCloud I can save them out to different

00:57:49   applications if I need to but I get the ability to annotate things and sign things and add

00:57:54   my name to stuff and date to stuff really really easily and I love being able to use

00:57:57   my Apple pencil on PDF pen for iOS which is really awesome but I whenever I sit down on

00:58:04   my Mac I take the PDF pen from my Mac as well and now we have PDF pen 9 to add to the family

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00:58:30   Alright so last week on the show me and Steven explained to Federico what Planet

00:58:37   of the apps was all about.

00:58:39   Now this week on the show,

00:58:40   Steven and Federico are going to explain

00:58:43   Business Chat to me,

00:58:44   which I believe is a feature of Evernote.

00:58:46   - Yes, it is a feature of Evernote

00:58:49   that is coming with the next major update to Evernote,

00:58:53   which if you don't know,

00:58:54   all of Relay is gonna switch to as a new company policy.

00:58:58   - Oh no. - We're all switching

00:58:59   from Google Docs to Evernote,

00:59:01   and so get used to it because it's happening.

00:59:03   - And away from Slack to WorkChat, right?

00:59:06   Oh yeah, yeah. So, alright. Business Chat is a feature of IOS 11 Messages, so the Messages

00:59:15   app that uses the iMessage service protocol. I feel like I need to make this distinction

00:59:20   because there's going to be someone who points it out to me on Twitter. So, Messages is the

00:59:25   app, iMessage is the service. It's gonna launch publicly, I think next year, but Apple is

00:59:32   going to roll out a beta for businesses later this year.

00:59:38   What it does, it's quite simple.

00:59:41   If you're familiar with the way that businesses can contact you on Messenger, for example,

00:59:46   on Facebook, it's actually quite similar.

00:59:49   It's a way for businesses, whether they're local shops or online companies, to send you

00:59:58   messages and have a conversation whether it's about support for an item that you want to

01:00:04   buy or an item that you've bought or new orders that you want to place with this business.

01:00:12   It's a way to take communication with businesses out of their custom interfaces on the web,

01:00:19   out of email and directly into iMessage, taking advantage of all the features that iMessage

01:00:25   offers, including the new Apple Pay integration, including integration with the rest of iOS

01:00:32   to find this contact information, and even iMessage apps, which by the way do use a deep

01:00:39   and open framework in this case.

01:00:43   That said, this all sounds kind of generic, so I'm gonna explain it to you in more practical

01:00:50   terms.

01:00:51   I was at the session where Business Chat was being announced, and it was surprisingly packed.

01:00:55   because we only got like one screenshot on the website so there was a lot of

01:00:59   curiosity going on. So you know how on iOS you can search for a local business

01:01:05   using the Safari search box or Spotlight or Maps and when you do, say you search

01:01:12   for Apple Store and you get like a phone button and like a directions button to

01:01:19   open the place in Maps and walk there or drive there. Now with iOS 11 if the

01:01:24   business integrates with Business Chat, you will get an iMessage icon that you

01:01:29   can tap to start a conversation with the business. When you do, you're

01:01:34   taken into the Messages app and you're taken into this new screen which looks

01:01:38   like an iMessage conversation but it's got a custom color that matches the logo

01:01:45   and the identity of the business. So in the demo that Apple showed, the Apple

01:01:49   Store had a gray iMessage interface that matches the gray Apple logo for the

01:01:53   Apple online store. These conversations, they never start from the business. It's

01:02:01   the user that always needs to start a conversation and get in touch with the

01:02:05   business. So if you're afraid of "our business is just gonna spam me now and

01:02:10   send me messages", that is not possible. Is that in every instance Federico? In

01:02:15   every instance the user needs to start the conversation. So if I'm talking

01:02:20   a business and I say to them can you let me know in a few days or whatever they

01:02:27   would probably say no you have to contact us into three days time. So no

01:02:32   the first instance needs to start from you. So the very first time you contact

01:02:40   the business it needs to be you but one of the features of Business Chat is that

01:02:45   it supports long running sessions so if you buy an item on Monday and you want

01:02:50   want to be updated on the status of the product on Wednesday, the business will be able to

01:02:55   ping you again two days later and tell you, "By the way, the product that you bought

01:03:01   has actually shipped." So that is available to businesses, but the very first time it

01:03:06   needs to be you, the user.

01:03:07   But could they then contact me in a month and say, "Hey, we've got this new product

01:03:10   we think you might like."

01:03:13   So I think they can do it, but you also have the option to, of course, delete the conversation,

01:03:19   once you delete a conversation if you're done, you don't want to hear from Apple again. Once

01:03:25   the conversation is gone, the business cannot get in touch with you again.

01:03:30   Now that's cool, I like that.

01:03:32   Yeah, because again, of course Apple is doing this in a way that everything is basically

01:03:36   anonymized, you get a token, you're assigned a user token when you start this conversation,

01:03:41   so it's not like Apple can say, "Oh, Myke Hurley contacted us two months ago, let's send

01:03:46   and make a message again. That's not gonna happen.

01:03:50   Also, in addition to deleting the conversation, you can swipe on the conversation in iMessage.

01:03:54   And this is true for both normal conversations and

01:03:58   business chat. You can swipe and hide the notification from

01:04:02   that conversation. So the

01:04:06   idea here is, you get in touch with the business and then you can start talking with them.

01:04:10   One of the great things here is that

01:04:14   because it's the actual iMessage, it supports all of the features that iMessage has.

01:04:19   So, rich links, for example. If your business wants to, you know, like I'm asking the Apple Store,

01:04:24   "Hey, do you have any iPhone battery cases?" And they send me, they can either send me a link to the,

01:04:31   for example, the iPhone 7 battery case and I get the rich preview, or they can send me these lists,

01:04:38   like these multiple pickers, like these options that I can interact with in a message.

01:04:43   Also during the demo they showed how Apple Pay is going to be supported here, so if I have a

01:04:51   question about a product and I don't want to buy the item before I know my answer to that question,

01:04:57   I can use Business Chat to ask the company a few questions about the item that I want to buy.

01:05:03   Once I'm satisfied, I can say things like "okay, I want to buy the product" and the

01:05:09   business in theory can send me a rich iMessage card and I can use Apple Pay to pay in line

01:05:16   inside the conversation for the item.

01:05:18   A few days later I'm gonna get the tracking info for the item also inside iMessage and

01:05:23   I don't have to use Safari, I don't have to use Apple Mail.

01:05:26   Everything happens inside iMessage and it works like in conversation but it's richer

01:05:31   because it's this customer business experience that is happening inside of the iMessage UI.

01:05:37   And personally, I think it's very well done from a user perspective. I don't know how much I'm

01:05:44   going to use this, primarily because I feel like none of the local shops in Rome are going to

01:05:49   support business chat, but in the United States and maybe for online businesses, I think this is

01:05:55   gonna be quite nice. Steven, I know that you've also looked at the

01:06:00   session, especially from the other side of the experience, from a business owner

01:06:05   perspective, the tools that you can use and how it works behind the scenes,

01:06:10   which I think is also interesting the way that Apple has done this.

01:06:14   The business owner side gets basically a web portal, but this only works

01:06:21   with like platforms. So say that Relay FM wanted to have this to answer support

01:06:27   questions, which we're not looking at but say that we were, we would need to use

01:06:32   something like Salesforce or Nuance or Genesis, I think LivePerson is the fourth

01:06:36   one, these customer service platforms that then would give me access to

01:06:40   business chat amongst all their other tools. So this is, it's easier to think

01:06:44   about this as like a section of a larger customer service solution as

01:06:49   as opposed to just I sign into iCloud as Relay FM

01:06:53   and answer a bunch of questions.

01:06:55   But on that side, the owner has a lot of options.

01:06:58   Federica, you mentioned that they could

01:06:59   send a list of products.

01:07:01   A business owner can set up an appointment,

01:07:04   so there's like a time picker,

01:07:05   which knows about the local calendar on the device.

01:07:08   You can do a bunch of stuff with,

01:07:13   like it's all used as JSON, and so in the video,

01:07:18   But you should go watch if you're interested in this.

01:07:21   There's a lot of JSON being generated.

01:07:24   And you can scroll through it and check it.

01:07:26   It's a little unclear to me how visible that will be

01:07:30   once this is rolled into something like Salesforce

01:07:32   or if this is something that just integrates

01:07:33   with their platform.

01:07:34   But I do have some questions around how does that scale?

01:07:38   How does it scale when you're chatting

01:07:39   with hundreds of customers across multiple support agents?

01:07:43   The demo was one support agent talking to one customer.

01:07:48   That's fine, but that doesn't,

01:07:49   like I wanna know how it scales.

01:07:51   Surely they've thought of that, right?

01:07:54   This didn't really show it.

01:07:55   But integrating it into something like Salesforce

01:08:00   or LivePerson or these other products,

01:08:02   customer service people are already in this,

01:08:05   and so my thought is that Business Chat

01:08:07   will just be another tool they can use.

01:08:11   I think the other thing that's pretty interesting

01:08:15   is that they only showed this on the web.

01:08:18   They did not show an iOS management piece of this.

01:08:23   And so again, if you're using Salesforce or something,

01:08:25   those platforms have apps and it's unclear at this point

01:08:29   if this will make it into those apps

01:08:31   or this will just be online.

01:08:34   There's lots of questions around that.

01:08:35   Right now as a business you have to go register.

01:08:37   There's a link in the show notes.

01:08:39   You have to be approved.

01:08:41   You have to be on one of these platforms

01:08:43   You can only test it internally at this point so again if relay were doing it I could answer questions

01:08:48   Federico had about about call recorder, but I couldn't you know field questions from our members for instance and

01:08:54   So they're they seem to be rolling it out very slowly which I think is good. I

01:09:01   Like you Federico. I see a large amount of potential for this. I think this could really

01:09:07   be a

01:09:09   a really nice addition to the iMessage ecosystem.

01:09:13   I've used Messenger to talk to brands before.

01:09:16   I use brands in air quotes.

01:09:17   And it's really nice 'cause I'm just already on my phone.

01:09:21   I don't have to call somebody

01:09:23   and then be on hold for 20 minutes

01:09:24   and then it'd be difficult to communicate with them.

01:09:27   It's just, I'm already in iMessage all day.

01:09:30   Just bring it to me.

01:09:31   And so that is super exciting.

01:09:34   And I think there's some unknowns from the business side,

01:09:38   But I'm really excited about this.

01:09:41   For something that shouldn't be as exciting

01:09:43   as it is on the surface, I think it's going to be great.

01:09:46   And I like that Apple is thinking

01:09:51   about these types of customers.

01:09:53   The customer here really is other businesses.

01:09:55   And Apple usually isn't very good at that.

01:09:57   And so to see them do this and to seemingly do it well

01:10:01   is a welcome change.

01:10:02   The reason that I'm interested in this as a consumer

01:10:06   is I don't like calling companies, right?

01:10:08   Because I have to devote all of my time and attention

01:10:13   to that thing, which is usually them not doing something

01:10:16   the way that I need it to be done.

01:10:18   And then I have to take this block of time out of my day

01:10:20   or away from what I'm doing to sit on hold

01:10:23   for half an hour, right?

01:10:24   Like I hate that.

01:10:25   And I hate the uncertainty, right?

01:10:27   You never know how long it's gonna take you.

01:10:29   Like you start a call now, you could be done

01:10:30   in five minutes or an hour, like you never know

01:10:32   how long it's gonna take.

01:10:33   So I tend to like to do the chat functions

01:10:35   where they're available.

01:10:36   But the problem with those is it's like you have to,

01:10:39   in the same way, right, like you have to sit there,

01:10:41   you can't close the window, you kind of have to just sit

01:10:43   with the window open and wait for them to talk to you.

01:10:46   But if it's an iMessage, I can just go about my day

01:10:48   doing whatever I'm doing because it's in the app.

01:10:50   It's not in this like pop-out window

01:10:53   that has to stay active, right?

01:10:55   Like it's just, I'll just get a text as I would get any

01:10:57   and then I can just respond to the text when I want to.

01:11:00   That's why I'm interested by this.

01:11:02   because it's taking this support function

01:11:06   that nobody ever really would love to do,

01:11:09   like especially if it's an annoying thing

01:11:11   that you have to get fixed,

01:11:13   and puts it into a method of communication

01:11:16   that I use regularly and enjoy.

01:11:18   Like that's why I'm interested in the way

01:11:21   that Apple is looking to integrate this.

01:11:23   - Yeah, two things that I forgot to mention.

01:11:25   You can start a business chat conversation

01:11:28   by scanning a QR code.

01:11:30   So again, another instance of QR codes being supported on iOS 11 with a wide array of options

01:11:38   in terms of destination.

01:11:40   And the business owner can also respond to you with a link to an iMessage app to perform

01:11:48   a specific action.

01:11:49   So let's say that you're talking to a, for example, to a hotel or to a flight company

01:11:57   and they want to make sure that you pick a room or that you pick a seat on the plane,

01:12:02   they can reply with the native iMessage app.

01:12:06   If you have the app installed, you tap the iMessage bubble and you can interact, so you

01:12:11   can choose a room or you can choose another product directly inside a custom app UI inside

01:12:19   of iMessage.

01:12:20   Like, it basically already works for person-to-person iMessage conversations with iMessage apps,

01:12:26   But now the business can take care of that and if you don't have the app installed you

01:12:31   can go back to the App Store, install the app and tap on the message again.

01:12:35   So it looks like Apple is really taking advantage of all the features of iMessage.

01:12:41   You can even upload images, all of the attachment types from iMessage are supported in business

01:12:47   chat.

01:12:48   So it's a way to, like you said, to avoid those old systems of talking to companies,

01:12:54   whether it's on the phone or an email or those ugly live person chat windows and

01:13:01   it's a way to bring that into iMessage and using the secure and private and

01:13:06   interactive model of iMessage to simplify this company to customer

01:13:11   interactions. I'm really intrigued by the idea of the sort of underlying theme of

01:13:18   Apple becoming a bank and having an Apple Pay becoming an Apple Wallet with

01:13:22   actual money and I can see the flow of sending money to people, sending money to my friend

01:13:28   Myke for example, now Myke has an Apple Pay wallet and the same money goes back to buying

01:13:33   another product using Business Chat.

01:13:35   So it's basically Apple handling a bunch of different transactions, whether it's between

01:13:39   people or between people and customers, which is basically the definition of a bank.

01:13:44   So I'm curious to see how Business Chat plays out in this scenario with the Apple Pay integration.

01:13:52   Do you know how the app side works from the business?

01:13:56   Because I'm assuming they're not using iOS apps to make...

01:13:59   - No.

01:14:00   - So do you know, is there some kind of new view

01:14:03   for these apps?

01:14:04   - Like when you want to share a link to an iMessage app?

01:14:09   - Yeah, how does that work?

01:14:12   - That's universal links, basically.

01:14:15   The way that you can call out a specific screen

01:14:19   or feature inside of your app.

01:14:21   you embed a link to the app and if the app is installed iOS knows how to deal

01:14:26   with it. Right and so you need to code into your applications the ability to

01:14:31   have these links right? Yes. I guess that's the thing. Yeah that's basically how it works.

01:14:35   Yeah. Anything more on this? I mean sounds really interesting like is this due to

01:14:41   launch with 11 or is there a different time for it? It's gonna launch next year.

01:14:46   this year Apple wants to keep testing it for like several months before they roll it out next year.

01:14:53   Yeah, so it's not really an iOS 11 feature, it's just like they've just announced it at WWDC.

01:14:58   Yeah, basically, yes.

01:15:00   Does it need 11?

01:15:02   It needs 11, because it needs all of the Apple Pay stuff in iMessage for example.

01:15:09   So it needs iOS 11.

01:15:11   And I suppose it could launch with iOS 11.3, I guess,

01:15:15   maybe spring 2018.

01:15:17   That's going to be next year, yes, 2018.

01:15:20   But yes, it needs iOS 11.

01:15:22   I'm not sure actually what happens if you try on iOS 10.

01:15:25   Maybe it just says this is not supported on iOS 10.

01:15:28   So you won't need the next version of iOS to do this.

01:15:33   - I'm interested.

01:15:34   I am, the economy interested.

01:15:37   I want to see where this goes.

01:15:40   I think that it could be really good.

01:15:41   I don't, I know there are apps that do it,

01:15:45   like Messenger and stuff, but I'm, you know,

01:15:46   I don't use those, right?

01:15:48   Like it's still like a whole different thing

01:15:50   that I would be going to use.

01:15:51   I am very keen on having this stuff

01:15:53   in my iMessage account, if I want it to be, right?

01:15:57   And I feel like Apple's doing a lot

01:16:00   to protect me from being spammed by companies,

01:16:04   so that I'm also very keen on.

01:16:06   Like I don't want to get myself on lists now like with email, right?

01:16:09   Where it's like now people can just send me their newest marketing message.

01:16:14   Like that would maybe be the worst thing that Apple has ever done if that was the case,

01:16:18   you know?

01:16:19   So, yeah, I'm very keen to see.

01:16:22   Yeah.

01:16:23   Was this an okay explanation?

01:16:25   I think so.

01:16:26   I think you did a very good job.

01:16:27   I think that you have a – if you want, you have a new career in WWDC presentations.

01:16:33   All right.

01:16:34   You could be on stage doing presentations, you know?

01:16:38   Sure, sure, okay.

01:16:39   I think that would be really good.

01:16:41   Alright, so if you want to find our show notes for this week head on over to relay.fm/connecting/147.

01:16:47   I would like to take a moment again to thank our sponsors PDF Pen9 from Smile, Blue Apron

01:16:51   and Encapsula.

01:16:52   Please go check out these apps, services and companies because they help support this show.

01:16:57   If you want to find Federico online he's over at MacStories.net and he is @Fettucci on Twitter

01:17:02   V-I-T-I-C-C-I.

01:17:03   Steven is at 512pixels.net and he is @ismh on twitter and I am @imike.

01:17:12   Thanks to you for listening and we'll be back next time.

01:17:14   Until then, say goodbye guys.

01:17:16   Adios.

01:17:17   Adios.

01:17:17   Adios!