145: LEGO For Shortcuts


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:06   From Real AFM, this is Connected, episode 145.

00:00:10   Today's show is brought to you by Hover, Max Stadium, and Igloo.

00:00:14   My name is Myke Hurley and I am joined across the table

00:00:17   by Mr. Stephen Hackett. Hello, Stephen Hackett.

00:00:19   I am across the table.

00:00:20   Table. And Mr. Federico Vittucci.

00:00:23   Hello.

00:00:23   Ciao Federico.

00:00:24   Ciao. Ciao.

00:00:24   Hi, Federico.

00:00:26   Yay.

00:00:26   This is the first time we have ever recorded a regular episode of connected in person. Yeah

00:00:31   Or anything never recorded the prompt in person because last year when we're together for the very first time ever

00:00:38   We did relay con it was a for I was that just a year ago. It was one year ago

00:00:42   It feels like it was 20 years

00:00:44   Long time ago, so we are in

00:00:48   What do we call this area studio B right now recording studio B stands for bunk bed. Yep

00:00:55   Studio double-b because there's bunk beds in this room in an Airbnb air bunk in bed

00:01:00   And we should probably get on with the show so we were talking last time about our wishes predictions for wdc

00:01:09   Yes, and Rosemary create on Twitter. She created a

00:01:12   The happy ometer graph kind of artwork thing. I guess we'll call it

00:01:17   So I'm gonna put that in the show notes so you can take a look and I figured we should maybe go through and grade

00:01:24   If we got our wildest dreams

00:01:26   So Steven, would you like to go through some of the results of this? I would I would love to I'm just pulling it up here

00:01:33   Okay, so we if you remember last week we each picked from each category iOS Mac OS hardware and other

00:01:40   Other it really struggled the name the last category wasn't good. But what are you gonna do grab bag? Yeah

00:01:47   Hmm so

00:01:50   Let's start with we'll go that person will start with Myke so Myke

00:01:55   Asks for additional software functionality for the Apple pencil. Look he kind of got it. There's new stuff. The pencil can do. Yep

00:02:01   You got Siri speaker, yep, mostly it's mostly a speaker that mostly has Siri in it

00:02:08   Yeah revised app had pro accessories. There's new ones that we didn't have before we'll talk about them later

00:02:12   Yeah, and then the one I it was in my other and it was in like my wild category

00:02:18   You win for like wild idea that came true.

00:02:21   "See Apple start to embrace AR or VR."

00:02:24   Turns out got both.

00:02:25   We'll talk about that later.

00:02:26   I'm really excited about that actually.

00:02:28   So that was pretty good.

00:02:29   Really the only thing I got that was mentioned was updated Macs.

00:02:34   Almost all of them got updated.

00:02:36   You didn't really get...

00:02:37   I'm looking at this now like...

00:02:38   It didn't do great.

00:02:39   No, you didn't do too good.

00:02:41   I mean there might be some stuff like improvements to Mail.

00:02:43   More powerful time machine.

00:02:44   machine. Yeah like Mel searches better but I wanted snoozing and stuff none of

00:02:49   that. Time machine there's a little like to be determined. This is a whole

00:02:54   list of sadness. Yeah Federico did well though integrating consolidated family

00:02:59   sharing experience kind of their shared storage now which is like a step in the

00:03:03   right direction so I'll give you that. SiriKit there was more stuff I mean there

00:03:06   wasn't a ton of stuff. Technically there was more SiriKit. Yeah so I'll make that one green. Bug fixes

00:03:14   for Mac OS. Yeah you were really unhappy with that one. Actually I had 100% figured out because they said we're gonna do high

00:03:26   Sierra we're gonna do performance, refinements, high Sierra we're gonna do high improvements so yeah I was right it's

00:03:31   the era of stability on the Mac. So we don't know if we got more stable lightning cables.

00:03:37   That's one thing you wanted. I don't think that's gonna happen. New iPad Pro. Well deeper and more open

00:03:43   - The iPad Pro, yes, but the deeper

00:03:46   and more open iMessage framework.

00:03:48   I mean, to an extent, it's not that deeper,

00:03:51   but there's some new APIs like you can do.

00:03:54   - I don't think you were asking

00:03:56   for just like a couple of new APIs.

00:03:57   - You can do direct send.

00:03:59   - Deeper and more open iMessage framework

00:04:02   is very different to a new API.

00:04:05   Like you've gone like, I want there to be iMessage,

00:04:08   like you've never seen.

00:04:09   It's like, oh, they added a new feature.

00:04:12   No, you didn't get this.

00:04:13   You did not get that and improved Apple Maps and Apple Maps took time on stage

00:04:17   But it actually wasn't about Apple Maps

00:04:19   Like they did the lane turning guidance, but then it was mostly the do not disturb while driving thing, which is a really cool

00:04:25   Yeah, I would say you get a partial for improved Apple Maps so overall maybe yellow one

00:04:32   I'm gonna say that like so overall who won I I feel like for me

00:04:36   I'm closer to like the the love heart in the eyes type emoji

00:04:42   on the meter, because I got something in the other category, right?

00:04:49   And so I'm pretty happy about that.

00:04:50   So I mean, I don't necessarily think that it's...

00:04:53   I mean, we all won, you know, everybody wins here.

00:04:57   Everybody gets a trophy.

00:04:58   Everybody wins at Connected.

00:04:59   We get participation awards for all of us.

00:05:02   But I think it was good.

00:05:03   Like, I think it worked out pretty well.

00:05:05   I mean, just in general, right?

00:05:06   Like, if we're gauging the happy-o-meter of just everything,

00:05:10   I think we're all feeling pretty good this year about what's been announced.

00:05:14   Totally.

00:05:15   Like last year I remember having a feeling of like when we were getting ready to do the

00:05:19   shows of like I actually don't know if there's enough to talk about.

00:05:23   Right?

00:05:24   Last year.

00:05:25   It was like

00:05:26   You didn't want to talk about iMessage effects?

00:05:27   I mean I was excited about that but it was hardly like a deep and open iMessage framework

00:05:32   like Federico is wishing for.

00:05:34   What does it even mean?

00:05:35   He just said some stuff.

00:05:37   Yeah.

00:05:38   No, it's really not.

00:05:39   what neural networks and machine learning.

00:05:41   - There should be ways for apps to collaborate more easily.

00:05:44   There should be ways to, yeah,

00:05:47   work chat, never know. - You guys don't believe me

00:05:48   - More deeply and openly in the framework.

00:05:51   - It's a useless discussion.

00:05:53   - But yeah, I just think that like this, yeah,

00:05:56   is in general, like I think everyone's feeling real good.

00:06:00   Right, like it feels to me maybe iOS 8,

00:06:03   you know, I think everyone felt really good at 8,

00:06:05   felt really good, especially good at 9.

00:06:07   9 was really good.

00:06:09   10 not so much. This is one of the better WWDCs since I've been coming to town paying

00:06:15   a lot more attention to it.

00:06:16   I think that ties into the meta conversation I wanted to have about the keynote. It feels

00:06:20   very dense. It was very fast.

00:06:23   There was a lot of stumbles.

00:06:25   Well yeah, I think that was partially speed. I kind of wondered too if they had some tech

00:06:29   stuff going on like slide stuff.

00:06:31   It seemed like it because everyone was struggling in weird places. So they might have had some

00:06:37   stuff going on.

00:06:38   You know they do the slide everyone takes a picture of like and 30 more features

00:06:41   And they're all like tiny font and take a picture of like doing later. They were up for like half a second. Yeah

00:06:48   Yeah, and so I mean it was definitely fast it clocked in what a little over two hours. I think it was

00:06:57   It was really packed and I had packed and I don't think there was much filler right we didn't see any

00:07:04   They cut so much of the usual stuff.

00:07:06   Yeah, and they some of it was in press releases before so like the 70 billion paid out to developers and so those metrics

00:07:13   They pushed out the Swift playground update so you can do like Lego Mindstorm and a bunch more stuff

00:07:18   Which is awesome like super cool stuff and would have been a really fun demo. It would have been a great demo

00:07:23   But there's just so much to get through and you know

00:07:26   You could argue that with two products aren't shipping till December but get teased here one of which

00:07:30   I'm not sure needed to be which we'll get to

00:07:34   All in all I give it a thumbs up. So I think I think a lot of people are really happy with what Apple's done

00:07:39   This week. Yeah, I know we are. Yeah. Yeah, I'm over the moon. I'm not I'm really angry

00:07:43   Give them the framework like this only us for really it's just a deep

00:07:50   Open I'm message framework and they weren't listening. Wow. They just weren't listening. That's my and the lightning cables man. They're not sturdy

00:07:57   Deep and open I message cables. So you were there Federico right again sitting in the audience

00:08:03   audience. What was it like this year compared to last year? Well the coffee was terrible

00:08:07   like last year so there was no change. I'm not sure that's what he was asking about.

00:08:12   Like if that's what... That's an important detail for me. I'm speaking, I have the microphone

00:08:16   here. I see the floties. So I mean the venue was much much nicer than... Oh yeah? I mean

00:08:27   Bill Graham is visually impressive.

00:08:30   The neighborhood, not so much.

00:08:32   - And that's just general for San Jose, right?

00:08:35   Like downtown San Jose is vastly nicer

00:08:38   to downtown San Francisco.

00:08:39   - Yeah, the general idea is San Jose is much nicer

00:08:42   and there's lots of trees and flowers

00:08:46   and it's always sunny.

00:08:47   It's nice.

00:08:48   It's more friendly, more human.

00:08:50   The convention center outside, it's very cozy.

00:08:54   It's like you can eat lunch outside.

00:08:56   So when we were waiting in line, it was nice to look at,

00:09:00   even if we couldn't actually sit down.

00:09:01   - It looks like a festival.

00:09:02   - It looks like a festival, yes.

00:09:03   - They got music playing outside all the time.

00:09:05   - There was music, we were waiting in line,

00:09:07   they were playing music, they were playing "Haim",

00:09:09   which I was singing, nobody else was singing "Haim".

00:09:12   - I would have sung with you, you know that.

00:09:13   - Yeah, I know, I was missing you.

00:09:14   Then we got inside and they made us wait

00:09:16   for a couple of hours.

00:09:18   Strict security, which is to be expected with these times.

00:09:22   They made us wait for a couple of hours,

00:09:24   So we were just sitting on the floor.

00:09:26   That's when the coffee thing happened.

00:09:29   It's like, eh.

00:09:29   Then we got inside.

00:09:33   And I mean, the big room was sort of like Presidio

00:09:38   at Moscone, maybe a bit wider.

00:09:41   The keynote watching, really my only gripe,

00:09:46   and I think John Siracusa mentioned it on ATP Live,

00:09:49   was that the screen was like,

00:09:53   sitting in the audience you couldn't see the bottom half, not the bottom half but

00:09:56   maybe the bottom third so all the details at the bottom you just couldn't

00:09:59   see them it was like everybody was like... So are there other screens like not

00:10:03   everyone's looking at the front? Yeah but the screens were kind of like tilted. The screens are just... okay. So from our position we were in this like in the

00:10:09   central area of the room and we couldn't look at the... So all you could see was what was right at the front? All I could see was the big screen at the front and the

00:10:18   other ones up in the air we couldn't see them. Overall it was fine really it was

00:10:25   nice eating lunch outside in San Jose is nice is probably a problem for other

00:10:31   people because it's really hot so we were kind of roasting out there. I give

00:10:37   it a thumbs up and I guess you can you see me giving a thumbs up too. I assume it was just

00:10:43   more fun watching the keynote this year because you were getting things you

00:10:46   wanted right like that probably made it more exciting there's some great

00:10:49   pictures of you like John Siracusa kept posting. These pictures are going

00:10:55   around I guess some people don't even know what they came from John Siracusa

00:11:00   and sort of because people are saving the photo and sharing it again. You're a

00:11:05   big deal. As sort of a meme I got a bunch of tweets from people like get yourself

00:11:10   partner who looks at you like Vitii looks at you.

00:11:17   My mom this morning sent me the photo and was like "oh you're really cute here, you're

00:11:21   smiling, you're happy".

00:11:22   Where's she coming from?

00:11:23   I have no idea.

00:11:24   Your mom is the biggest fan of Syracuse.

00:11:26   Yeah, I guess.

00:11:29   She's really into the finder, you know.

00:11:32   She's a fan.

00:11:33   She's my kind of lady.

00:11:35   Well, I think we can move on.

00:11:37   We gotta eject somebody a ball.

00:11:39   I know what we can do. We could take a break.

00:11:41   I want to thank our first sponsor this week,

00:11:43   and we've got a little special thanks for them as well in a moment.

00:11:46   But we're going to talk about Mac Stadium.

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00:12:36   to MacStadium. With thousands of other customers around the world, MacStadium is the Mac hosting

00:12:41   authority. Learn more about them at macstadium.com/relay.

00:12:46   So we are big fans of MacStadium, so our live streaming server is hosted there. So if you

00:12:53   ever listen to us live, it's coming to you from Las Vegas, where we have our Mac Mini.

00:12:57   But we also just wanted to thank them. We did a meetup last night that was a fantastic

00:13:01   success. Anybody that came to the meetup, we really hope that you enjoyed looking at

00:13:05   the quilts. It was really nice. The Italian soda was really good. Federico denies its

00:13:09   Italian-ness though.

00:13:10   It was not really Italian.

00:13:13   No. But Max Stadium helped us with that. They were the sponsor of the event so we just wanted

00:13:18   to extend an extra special thanks for them for helping us put that event on. And I would

00:13:22   like to thank Steven for putting it all together because it was fantastic and all I had to

00:13:26   do was show up so thank you Mr. Hackett.

00:13:27   You're welcome.

00:13:28   Alright, should we jump into some more of the announcements from the keynote?

00:13:32   Yeah, so I thought we could walk through, we're not gonna walk through everything, we're

00:13:37   not even gonna necessarily go in chronological order, but kinda talk about the high points

00:13:41   and how we think about it. The nice thing about doing the show on Tuesdays, we've had

00:13:44   some time to digest and think.

00:13:46   And also time to see the random tweets that people post, the features.

00:13:50   Yes.

00:13:51   Those are my favorite things.

00:13:52   Those are the best ones.

00:13:53   It's my favorite thing about WWDC.

00:13:54   It's like I found this one line of detail somewhere. Because it really is, I mean, there's

00:14:00   There's stuff on stage in the keynote, there's stuff in State of the Union, there's stuff

00:14:04   in labs, there's stuff in documentation.

00:14:06   It takes a while to get to the bottom of it all.

00:14:10   And so there'll be stuff that we're going to get wrong.

00:14:12   It's fine, it's day two, like that happens.

00:14:15   But lots of fun stuff.

00:14:17   But I think we need to start with the saddest of Apple's platforms this week, tvOS.

00:14:23   Well I mean, okay, so I get what you're saying, because there was absolutely zero operating

00:14:27   system features.

00:14:28   There are some in the state of the union like a slide with 4 to 5 icons so I assume at least

00:14:34   4 to 5 features are coming. Which is exciting.

00:14:37   I think that like, ok so we got Amazon Prime Video right which is good news right? Tim

00:14:42   did his absolute best to sell that.

00:14:45   To sell Amazon.

00:14:46   He did a real good job on that. I feel like he was doing it if his teeth just gritted

00:14:49   the whole time.

00:14:50   We love Amazon.

00:14:51   Amazon are so good.

00:14:54   But I think that we didn't see a lot about tvOS because...

00:14:58   I mean there's not even a tvOS preview page on Apple's website.

00:15:02   What is there to preview?

00:15:03   I think that...

00:15:04   It's just, you click the link and it takes you to Amazon Prime Video.

00:15:07   I think we need new hardware first.

00:15:08   I think this is like an iPhone-y type situation.

00:15:11   It seems like we're due for 4K hardware.

00:15:14   I think that's coming.

00:15:15   It's gotta be, right?

00:15:16   And I assume that there'll be new features when they announce the box.

00:15:19   It's time.

00:15:20   So, Amazon Prime, we've all wanted it.

00:15:23   It's here.

00:15:24   great. Will we here? Right, what? Summer? Did I even say? I don't think they gave a

00:15:29   date, I think they just said soon. So I kind of assumed in the fall with everything else,

00:15:34   but there's nothing stopping them from just putting it in the App Store today. Soon is

00:15:37   my favorite date. It is. It's always just around the corner. So let's move on to WatchOS.

00:15:44   CPOS man. What a failed platform. So we have some tweets later, we're going to answer questions,

00:15:54   And Joe Steele was like, do you remember when they said the future of TV is apps?

00:15:57   Like, oh yeah, it's not.

00:15:59   It's not.

00:16:00   It's not like, so we're jumping all over the place.

00:16:03   There's no apps for HomePod right now.

00:16:06   There's nothing.

00:16:07   You are jumping around.

00:16:08   That's correct.

00:16:09   And this made me think, right?

00:16:11   So Apple, the last two OSs that they released were WatchOS and TVOS, and they

00:16:16   had app stores for both of those.

00:16:18   Then they had an app store for iMessage apps.

00:16:20   Oh yeah.

00:16:21   I remember that.

00:16:21   None of those have taken off.

00:16:22   Right.

00:16:23   I think that hopefully they are learning that they need to stop thinking

00:16:27   that they can just put an app store on everything.

00:16:30   It'll be successful because the last three that they've done have been kind of duds.

00:16:34   Like nobody uses tvOS app store, right?

00:16:38   Like it may as well be like how the old Apple TV was,

00:16:41   every time a new video provider just shows up.

00:16:43   Yeah, that's all anybody wants. Right.

00:16:45   And then watch OS is people really using like a ton of watch apps.

00:16:49   My biggest tech purchase regret of like the last year was the Apple TV gaming.

00:16:57   Yeah, because I'm the Nimbus controller.

00:17:01   I used it twice to play like some racing game with my kid and then it's just been sitting

00:17:05   under the TV ever since.

00:17:07   You lost the game.

00:17:07   It destroyed me.

00:17:08   So, I mean, the reality is you're bringing these mobile games to TVOS and they're kind

00:17:14   of realizing that I can play the mobile game on my iPhone and iPad and it's probably better

00:17:18   because it's always with me and you know I don't have the Siri remote to deal with.

00:17:23   And then if I wanted to play on the TV I have an actual console like the PlayStation on the Switch.

00:17:28   So it's kind of stuck in the middle of this Apple desire to bring the iOS games to the big screen.

00:17:34   It doesn't really work because the iOS games are best on iOS and the big screen is best for

00:17:38   consoles. So what do you do? It's a failed product. It's just interesting to me right to see like all

00:17:45   all these app stores and they're just, they're dead.

00:17:48   Like I opened the watch app the other day. Um,

00:17:50   cause I was serving in Federico or something like a Dean was installing the most

00:17:54   recent update and she was just looking at the software update page for like a

00:17:57   couple of minutes. I'm like, what are you doing? She's like,

00:17:59   I'm waiting for it to install.

00:18:00   She didn't press the install button cause it's just a yellow word. Yeah. Right.

00:18:04   She's a word that says install. She's like, what's it doing? I was like, yeah,

00:18:08   you got to press that button. That's not a button. I was like, yeah, I know.

00:18:11   It's just a piece of text.

00:18:13   (laughing)

00:18:14   And while we were there,

00:18:16   like while I was showing Federico,

00:18:17   I was like, oh there's a whole App Store tab.

00:18:20   Does anybody ever go to their, like,

00:18:23   you just install it--

00:18:23   - It's just white as soon as--

00:18:25   - Yeah, which is hilarious, right?

00:18:27   'Cause the whole app's black and then all of a sudden

00:18:29   it's like just bright light.

00:18:30   It's like people install the watch apps,

00:18:32   they just do it in other places.

00:18:34   You don't browse that, but anyway.

00:18:35   - Yeah, so let's talk about watchOS.

00:18:38   A couple things here.

00:18:41   Kevin Lynch has like a cool guy hair cut. He's got a little beard, he's got some long hair.

00:18:47   Yeah, I couldn't see from the distance. He looks good. He's handsome. He's like Kevin Lynch 2.0.

00:18:51   Yeah, he's enjoying life in Apple Park. Yeah. So...

00:18:55   He maybe enjoyed it a little bit too much. Yeah, the kaleidoscope watch face came out of a drugstore.

00:19:00   I feel like there's a story behind that watch face. It took a trip to High Sierra.

00:19:03   So new watch faces, kaleidoscopes, the one we're making fun of.

00:19:09   It's impossible to see the hands on the watch face

00:19:12   It looks like what acid must feel like to your brain. I know every time that like we're together

00:19:18   I'm just gonna put that watch face on my watch because it would drive everybody crazy

00:19:21   I like to see me use it in the kaleidoscope face. Yeah, I feel like it's something I would do

00:19:25   I'm gonna give it a go because it's so it's just ridiculous

00:19:27   Yeah, I was like it felt like stepping in an alternate reality. Like we were looking at each other

00:19:31   So it's this real like and it's so great to put a photo on your watch face

00:19:35   and now it's a kaleidoscope and look at this color. It's like what is going on here?

00:19:39   Is that a watch face?

00:19:40   Yeah, Kevin Lynch has some sort of vision question in the woods and didn't come back okay.

00:19:44   It just fundamentally makes no sense why you'd choose that. Like, I don't know how that came up.

00:19:48   Or like, I know what we'll do, we'll make it a kaleidoscope.

00:19:50   The thing hasn't got a camera on it, right? So you can't look at it live. Like, it doesn't make any sense.

00:19:54   What, yeah, what terrible watch faces didn't make the cut?

00:19:57   Oh god.

00:19:58   So we also have some Toy Story watch faces.

00:20:03   We have Buzz and Woody and Jesse.

00:20:07   You know, it's in the vein of Mickey and Minnie.

00:20:09   - If you're gonna do it, I mean like this--

00:20:09   - They're fun, they're fun.

00:20:10   - Yeah.

00:20:11   - They should sell those.

00:20:13   There should be an app store for watch faces

00:20:15   with popular characters.

00:20:16   - Pixar and Disney were just like,

00:20:18   it's like printing your own money.

00:20:19   - Yeah.

00:20:20   I mean, just make it,

00:20:21   that's an app store I would sort of understand.

00:20:24   - 'Cause it's like a UI theme thing.

00:20:26   Exactly because it's a UI thing and thing people love personalization and

00:20:30   Just make it easy to buy like 99 cents and you get a character

00:20:34   I'm starting to I mean at the point where watchOS 4 now I do not envision a world where Apple has a watch face store.

00:20:41   I mean anything can happen right like the last few years have shown that?

00:20:45   We have eGPUs we can do anything.

00:20:47   You got a kaleidoscope face so you're really sure?

00:20:50   That's true.

00:20:51   Some people were kind of making fun of the Toy Story watch face

00:20:55   And I think it's because like in a lack of like real updates like maybe he's kind of poked fun

00:21:00   This is all they did, but I think it's great. I think people enjoy that sort of stuff

00:21:04   You know you're gonna wear on you know, but my kids will want to see it

00:21:08   And then we have a Siri watch face and there's been some back and forth. I did some ring today

00:21:16   There is a Siri complication that can kind of launch you into this environment

00:21:19   it looks like, but the Siri face is basically Siri proactive on the phone, which if anyone

00:21:27   has used it, it's not. It's okay. Kind of reminds me of the pebble thing that we're

00:21:32   trying to do. The timeline. It's exactly that. Very much like that. I realized this when

00:21:37   I was talking to Jason on an upgrade yesterday, like it popped into my head like, well, I

00:21:40   know I've seen this before. It was that, right? That was their entire OS was built around

00:21:45   this. Like the thing you want now is right at the top and then you scroll through. And

00:21:49   And I remember us saying at the time, like, that is a really good idea.

00:21:51   It's a great way to do it.

00:21:52   When I saw this, I was like, look, if it works, that is all the watch should ever be, right?

00:21:59   Like just the things that you need to see.

00:22:01   Like, when this comes out, when Watch House 4 comes out, I'm going to switch my watch

00:22:05   face to this and I'm going to try it.

00:22:06   Like, I want to see if it can do it.

00:22:08   Like even just telling me when my next meeting is.

00:22:10   Yeah.

00:22:11   And it showcases this new design language they're using on the watch.

00:22:15   It's like tiles.

00:22:16   like tiles and cards and bolder typography.

00:22:21   - Yeah, it looks really good.

00:22:23   I like it, you know, in the activity app,

00:22:26   it used to be just a list of things,

00:22:27   sort of in colored cells,

00:22:29   but now there's some depth to it.

00:22:31   I think it looks really nice.

00:22:32   - Overall, the animations of watchOS 4 look really great.

00:22:36   Like when you're doing a workout

00:22:38   and there's a little like silhouette

00:22:39   just running in the corner

00:22:41   and when you complete the rings

00:22:42   and there's like a Catherine wheel and stuff.

00:22:44   - Yeah, I think, you know, watchOS 4 is the first time

00:22:48   they've been able to like iterate on a watchOS.

00:22:51   Every year up until now they were burning it down

00:22:53   and rebuilding it.

00:22:54   You know, watchOS 1 and then 2 and then 3 last year

00:22:57   was a huge change.

00:22:57   This is the first time.

00:22:58   - Well, there might be some elements to that though, right?

00:22:59   Like we were just looking at it.

00:23:00   Apparently they got rid of the honeycomb.

00:23:02   - There are some conflicting reports about the honeycomb.

00:23:05   - So we will follow up on that.

00:23:07   - But we saw a picture. - It could be fake news.

00:23:09   - It could be fake news.

00:23:11   We fake tweets.

00:23:12   We saw a picture of a list of apps.

00:23:14   alphabetical list of apps with no honeycomb. So, but that could be in settings, I mean who knows,

00:23:19   but it could be a setting, but they're adding polish like yeah the little animations they're

00:23:23   adding I think the watch should have some whimsy to it because it's it's a fun device like it should

00:23:28   have some personality to it. You should feel a little bit alive. Yeah and they're doing that now

00:23:34   so I really like what they've shown so far of how the watch the OS looks. I think it got just the

00:23:40   right amount of time. It's not that important of a platform in the grand

00:23:46   scheme of things, but they should be making it better, right? Like, so I think

00:23:50   balancing that makes sense. Like, they didn't go over the board, right? Because

00:23:54   we're all expecting maybe something like sleep tracking, but maybe just don't do

00:23:57   that yet. Like, maybe wait, right? Like, there's no need to, like, just stuff the

00:24:01   watch full of stuff every year. Yeah, and sleep tracking may be something that's

00:24:05   tied to hardware, that maybe they can get a better battery or different types of

00:24:09   sensors or something. So yeah I think all in all like watchOS 4 it's iterative

00:24:15   it's gonna make it better. The bulk of the work though was in in the fitness

00:24:19   arena which you would expect so you can pair a watch now to certain lines of gym

00:24:24   equipment. So you know if I get on an elliptical machine it can talk to my

00:24:29   watch and make sure all the data matches. At least in the gym I work out in it's

00:24:33   gonna be about 150 years before they... It's straight up never happening. Yeah. It's just not gonna happen.

00:24:38   Gym equipment is incredibly expensive.

00:24:40   - Yeah, and it's long-term,

00:24:41   but it will slowly over time do it.

00:24:43   I'm sure the new fancy Apple gym has all that equipment.

00:24:48   But I like that sort of thing.

00:24:49   It should be aware of your surroundings.

00:24:52   And Federico's gonna ask you if you knew much about it.

00:24:55   You can do some Bluetooth stuff now,

00:24:57   so you can pair it to certain types of,

00:24:59   I don't really know what's going on.

00:25:01   - Yeah, I really don't understand this stuff

00:25:03   because I never had this kind of equipment.

00:25:05   But my understanding is there's core Bluetooth,

00:25:07   it's now a watchOS, so it can talk directly to like heart rate sensors instead of going

00:25:15   back and forth with the iPhone.

00:25:16   Right, because there was this rumor of a glucose monitor that apparently Tim Cook's been wearing

00:25:20   and it turns out that like it's a third party thing.

00:25:23   Yeah.

00:25:24   Right.

00:25:25   So the watch can talk directly to that sort of in real time and monitor the stats being

00:25:28   captured by the sensors.

00:25:30   I think that makes a lot more sense than them trying to just build it all themselves.

00:25:34   For now.

00:25:35   I mean it's a good way to sort of understand people's needs and to collect data, see how

00:25:41   many people use it, see how it scales like in, for example in HealthKit, how it works

00:25:46   and if people have any complaints before you roll out your own solution.

00:25:49   Plus they can build the software, right, with the third party hardware.

00:25:52   Like I think it's good.

00:25:54   I'm happy with the watchOS stuff, like there's nothing in there that is too bold, right,

00:26:01   like it's just nice improvements to a...

00:26:05   like watchOS 3 is a pretty stable system, like watchOS 3 is pretty good and so I'm looking forward to it.

00:26:12   I'm not, I remember last year like that was weirdly the platform that I was the most excited for

00:26:17   was watchOS 3 because it was like oh it looks like they've really fixed this so I'm looking

00:26:22   forward to trying that out too. I'm not sure about the dock redesign like now it's a vertical list of

00:26:29   Oh really?

00:26:30   Yeah, I think they mentioned that in the keynote.

00:26:33   I'm not surprised because up and down scrolling with left to right movement confuses me literally

00:26:39   every single time.

00:26:40   Never know which way to go.

00:26:41   I always go the wrong way.

00:26:43   So like I get that and like you're only going to see the same amount of content on the screen

00:26:46   because it was always full screen one card.

00:26:48   I don't know, I feel like they've been trying so hard this year again to push the digital

00:26:52   crown as an interaction method.

00:26:55   But it is the best way to use the watch because your fingers just cover the

00:26:59   entire screen. Yeah but the dock, the horizontal dock is just so easy to use you just swipe.

00:27:04   But you just swipe in a different direction. Yeah I don't know. Because it'll be the same amount of

00:27:07   content on the screen you only ever see one card at a time you're just going up and down.

00:27:11   I don't know I feel like swiping vertically with my finger covers more than swiping horizontally.

00:27:17   Yeah but that's why I use the crown. Yeah they have to justify the crown experience.

00:27:22   So I got the worst of both worlds. Don't update. Yeah just run watch osu! 3 forever.

00:27:28   forever yeah this is next year when they change it when they change it again when

00:27:32   it goes diagonally when it becomes a honeycomb yeah when the watch is star

00:27:37   shaped and you have to I mean yeah there's still people running Mac OS 9

00:27:40   you can just join those people you mean you then you a little bit yeah you are

00:27:44   people so yeah so I think that's all the watch stuff

00:27:47   hi Sierra hmm you've got like a good six to eight weeks of me doing this joke I

00:27:54   I just want everyone to know.

00:27:55   - You understand I didn't pick the name.

00:27:57   - Yeah, I know, but this is just to everyone,

00:28:00   'cause I'm annoying everyone with it,

00:28:02   but I think it's so funny.

00:28:04   - It's this, it's the millennials snow leopard,

00:28:07   is really what it is.

00:28:07   - Yeah, but we get this every time though, right?

00:28:09   Like at the last--

00:28:10   - So let me ask you.

00:28:12   - For listeners, they're both looking at me

00:28:14   as if I commit a crime.

00:28:15   - You make folks.

00:28:17   - Yeah, you really alienated some people.

00:28:19   You really made some people,

00:28:21   you hurt some feelings last week.

00:28:22   You're making fun of me. - Okay, I get it.

00:28:23   was in good faith. I mean, you guys know me, I'm joking every time I do this. He really just uses a

00:28:28   Mac, that's all there is. So. But it's alright though, because the iPad is a Mac now, right? Yeah.

00:28:34   We all love each other again. We're all in the same boat. It's all, yeah. So, some folks have been asking

00:28:41   for a long time to Apple shoot Slow Down and do another Snow Leopard. So now that you have it, how

00:28:47   does it feel? I'm good with it, honestly. I mean, the name is like super cringy. The name is ridiculous.

00:28:53   The name is terrible. So I did a post last week of terrible Mac OS names that they could choose from.

00:29:00   And I really wish I'd put this in the document. If I had guessed this was going to be the name,

00:29:07   I mean, I'd retire from blogging. It'd be done. It'd be my crowning achievement.

00:29:11   You wouldn't be reached though. #StevenWasHigh. That's what we would have done.

00:29:15   Right? Isn't that right?

00:29:17   Sure. So let's walk through it a little bit. It's quick. It is mostly under the hood stuff.

00:29:22   We have APFS the new file system. The way it started, it didn't start out too good, right? When he come out

00:29:27   He's like Sierra was awesome. I'm like, here we go, right? Nothing's happening, right?

00:29:32   Like do you remember Sierra like a Sierra run-through? Yeah, I was like, mmm. We're gonna do it again

00:29:37   So the new file system

00:29:41   You can migrate to that. It's the default on new machines. I

00:29:44   Think the couple of big things you have

00:29:48   265 support so 4k video better video compression if you're editing video or storing video or really doing anything that's coming across the line

00:29:56   It's coming across. Yeah. Yeah

00:29:58   But on the Mac is where most people do their editing chose opposed iOS

00:30:01   So I think video editors are gonna get a big a big boost there

00:30:05   We have metal too. So there have been talk we didn't really cover it

00:30:09   We really don't cover this angle of stuff. But you know Vulcan is out there you have potentially like new OpenGL

00:30:15   but they're they're doubling down on metal, which is apples I

00:30:18   The best way to describe is a framework. It's a deep and open framework for video

00:30:24   The graphics I don't even know anymore really annoys me about metal. Hmm. They called the operating system High Sierra

00:30:32   They did not call metal heavy metal. Why would you call it like Federighi sets it up?

00:30:37   He's like and you know what we called it. I'm like, yeah metal -

00:30:41   It's like you went with High Sierra for your operating system and you couldn't come up with anything better than metal -

00:30:48   Yeah, the naming is rough this year. It always actually kind of is always rough.

00:30:52   Naming is like a crap shoot every time. It is. So with Metal 2 they are bringing AR and

00:30:58   VR development to the Mac. So Unreal, the Unreal Engine, a couple others, there's a

00:31:03   long list of them. I'm getting a lot of people say to me, like,

00:31:06   because I'm excited about this, I keep talking to people, they're like "Oh, but there's no

00:31:09   games." I'm like, I don't understand, they're like "Oh, it's just development."

00:31:12   Steam, right? Steam VR.

00:31:13   VR and support for the two most popular game engines.

00:31:16   Yeah.

00:31:17   And they're using a HTC Vive and they showed a game development.

00:31:20   Like people see the Star Wars demo.

00:31:22   Yeah.

00:31:23   And they're like, oh, that wasn't a game.

00:31:24   It's like, no, but you don't understand.

00:31:26   There is no game.

00:31:27   It's understandable because gaming on the Mac

00:31:29   historically has been a dumpster fire.

00:31:31   And maybe it will still be.

00:31:32   But it's going to be tough, right?

00:31:33   Because the hardware, even because, you know,

00:31:35   I've been tweeting about this and people that love PC gaming

00:31:37   have been telling me how bad the hardware still is.

00:31:39   But it's it's a step.

00:31:41   The most important thing is Apple is acknowledging it.

00:31:44   - Right.

00:31:45   - Even, the only development in VR is video games.

00:31:48   That's where it's focused.

00:31:50   And having these game, support for these game engines

00:31:53   in Metal 2, that is a tacit endorsement of Apple

00:31:57   trying to do VR gaming.

00:31:58   - So I have this working theory about the max place

00:32:02   in the world that as the iPad, especially this year,

00:32:06   can do more and more, and I think more and more people

00:32:08   are gonna be using it.

00:32:10   Apple's gotta find the Mac's place in the market.

00:32:14   And I think one of those places

00:32:16   will continue to be high-end production.

00:32:18   And so even if, Myke, you can't really ever strap on a Vive

00:32:22   and hook it up to an iMac and game,

00:32:25   Apple wants the Mac to have a place

00:32:27   in the production of that stuff.

00:32:29   And I think that's really what this is about.

00:32:31   They have some eGPU support,

00:32:33   so right now that's only a developer thing,

00:32:36   so we have a link in the show notes

00:32:37   to a developer page about it.

00:32:39   but they're equipping the Mac and equipping developers

00:32:42   to use the Mac for this stuff.

00:32:44   Whether it takes off or not, I mean, no one knows.

00:32:46   They have a lot of ground to make up.

00:32:48   They have a lot to do in terms of proving they can do it

00:32:51   and stay up to date, right?

00:32:52   We've talked about this forever.

00:32:54   Even with the iPad of like,

00:32:56   what are you doing with your upgrade cycle?

00:32:58   All that stuff is super important.

00:33:00   So they're making baby steps.

00:33:01   We had a question from Rick wanting to know

00:33:04   if any external Thunderbolt 3 dock

00:33:06   could be used with macOS.

00:33:08   Right now, the only really thing Apple has said is,

00:33:10   in the link in the show notes,

00:33:12   there is one by Sonnet that they're supporting

00:33:14   only if you're a developer.

00:33:16   My assumption is that when High Sierra,

00:33:20   High Sierra ships. - Hey Sierra.

00:33:23   - Hey, what's up?

00:33:25   - High Sierra finally ships,

00:33:27   then maybe anyone can go out and buy it.

00:33:29   I'm sure there'll be a limited number.

00:33:30   It's all very unknown.

00:33:31   - It's the coolest thing about it, so I didn't see it,

00:33:32   'cause it was really weird, right?

00:33:33   Apple did not at any point acknowledge

00:33:35   that the HTC Vive was even on the stage of being used.

00:33:38   They didn't say it.

00:33:40   - On the website, it's unlabeled even.

00:33:42   - On the iMac Pro page, they have it sitting there.

00:33:45   In this documentation, so for the little,

00:33:47   for the external GPU thing,

00:33:49   you get a $100 promo credit to a HTC Vive VR headset.

00:33:53   Right, so this is the first time in all of Apple's website

00:33:57   that I've found mentioned to the Vive.

00:33:58   Like they're showing pictures of it,

00:33:59   but it's unlabeled and everything, I don't know why.

00:34:02   But look, I'm excited about this.

00:34:04   There's a lot of question right now, especially with the iMac Pro, like what's the Mac Pro?

00:34:08   Well, the Mac Pro might be the machine that is built to play VR games, right?

00:34:13   Like that might be what like one of the things that this is hardware can be really focused towards

00:34:18   Because you know with gaming with VR gaming it's it's it requires

00:34:22   graphics cards to be changed

00:34:25   frequently, right like more than every six years.

00:34:29   Right and starting in a good place and Apple even with the new iMacs and stuff

00:34:33   They're not still there's not top of the line

00:34:35   so I my hope my hope now is one of the things that the Mac Pro is for is for VR games and

00:34:40   That they will really try and embrace

00:34:43   The market of people that will be using this stuff by replacing their graphics cards and stuff frequently

00:34:50   But look the thing is even if they don't do the best job. I don't care. I was just getting concerned

00:34:56   You have to build a PC. No. Well, yeah, that was one but like just getting concerned for Apple because

00:35:02   There are two realms right now where everybody's moving all of their competitors. They're going to VR and they're going to home

00:35:10   speakers that you can talk to and

00:35:13   It really looked like they were just gonna let VR go and I don't think that was a good idea

00:35:17   So I'm pleased to see that they're starting. Yeah, me too. Um

00:35:20   We're getting face data and photos sinking again. Like I mean this wasn't the last year it's here this year. It's great

00:35:27   Well, I will finally use faces. I have never done it on my

00:35:30   - It's a waste of time, it's a literal waste of your time.

00:35:33   - Most of the time when I look at photos,

00:35:34   I'm on my phone or my iPad, I'm like,

00:35:35   oh right, none of this is here.

00:35:36   - And then you spend all this time

00:35:37   and you get a new phone next year, you start over again.

00:35:39   - Yeah.

00:35:40   - But there's a deeper theme of Apple sort of letting go

00:35:43   and letting people sync a bunch of new information

00:35:46   into iCloud.

00:35:46   - So I have a theory about this.

00:35:48   - So we have--

00:35:49   - HealthKit stuff is there.

00:35:50   - We have HealthKit, we have activity

00:35:52   because it's dependent on EarthKit.

00:35:53   - iMessage.

00:35:54   - iMessage, we have faces with photos.

00:35:57   It's sort of a new direction, I think, for iCloud.

00:35:59   - They have a theory which is like in the other,

00:36:01   which is the same thing but from the other side.

00:36:03   In the last year, they have found a new way

00:36:06   to encrypt this stuff that they didn't have before.

00:36:08   So it's not that they are making,

00:36:10   like that they're taking some shortcuts.

00:36:12   - Sure.

00:36:13   - Like they landed on something,

00:36:15   which is letting them do this.

00:36:16   Like, and I'm not saying that you're saying

00:36:17   they're being unsecure, right?

00:36:18   But you've got to choose one of the two, right?

00:36:20   That either like you've led up somewhere

00:36:22   or you've found something new.

00:36:23   But it's like all of this stuff at once.

00:36:26   - Even on principle, it's like the idea of

00:36:28   we don't want your data in the cloud.

00:36:30   Well, now, even if it's some new encrypted form,

00:36:33   you do. - It's still there somewhere.

00:36:35   - You love it, you're storing it, so you want it.

00:36:38   - It's something changed, right?

00:36:39   You're completely right, something's changed.

00:36:41   And whatever it is, it all changed at once

00:36:43   because a ton of stuff that they should have been doing,

00:36:46   it's all happening now.

00:36:47   - I mean, I'm happy. - There wasn't a drip free.

00:36:48   Yeah, I think it's fantastic.

00:36:49   I'm really pleased about all of this stuff.

00:36:51   I mean, 'cause this is what we have been asking for

00:36:53   since last year, right?

00:36:54   Like, especially on this show, we talk about this.

00:36:56   Like we just, we will give a little

00:36:58   to get the functionality.

00:37:00   - I wonder what the people on the other side think now.

00:37:03   Oh, Apple should never do that.

00:37:05   - I guess, I mean, I won't be able to understand it,

00:37:09   but I want someone to go to these security sessions

00:37:12   and sum it up.

00:37:13   Like, how are they doing this, right?

00:37:14   So like last year, what was it?

00:37:15   Differential privacy or whatever it's called?

00:37:18   Like that was the term that they were using

00:37:20   for this thing that they were fact.

00:37:21   So I assume there is a new term this year

00:37:24   with some other type of security stuff.

00:37:25   But I do agree, it's like, even if they're anonymizing

00:37:28   all this stuff, it's still there.

00:37:30   - It's yours and it's there. - It's still somewhere,

00:37:32   which they weren't doing before.

00:37:34   - Yeah, it's your data, it's your heart rate data collected

00:37:38   over X months, and it's your messages,

00:37:41   and it's your photos of faces and information.

00:37:45   It's there, I'm happy, but it's definitely a change

00:37:49   in even the ideas that they have,

00:37:52   that should we be storing users'

00:37:54   most private information or not?

00:37:56   And the answer now is yes.

00:37:57   - 'Cause you know, my assumption is Google anonymizes it.

00:38:01   Right? - Sure.

00:38:02   - Like they don't tie it to you.

00:38:03   - Sure, but-- - So it's like, you know,

00:38:05   I wonder what makes Apple different.

00:38:06   - There's a breach and you can see the photo of my house

00:38:09   and you can see the photo of my kids.

00:38:10   - Exactly. - And then you can see

00:38:12   what my heart rate looks like.

00:38:13   - It's not that anonymous anymore, right?

00:38:15   So like what are they doing?

00:38:16   I agree, like what's happened?

00:38:18   I'm very keen to find that out

00:38:20   'cause I think right now we don't really know.

00:38:22   all we notice has been a big it's been a big change and it's either in some kind

00:38:26   of incredible technology or a policy change. Yeah. So that that's one to really

00:38:31   keep an eye on over the next couple of weeks. Speaking of policy change the

00:38:34   Mega Poggera got an update. Why did they even mention it on stage? It's completely pointless.

00:38:38   200 megahertz faster. I mean 200 is a lot. It's still megahertz.

00:38:44   Yeah like mega is big right? Mega means big. I mean in the Pokemon world mega is

00:38:48   Mega Revolutions are like it's a big deal.

00:38:51   Yeah.

00:38:52   So this is a Mega Revolution.

00:38:53   You got 200 of them!

00:38:54   Yeah, 200 Mega Revolutions?

00:38:55   I could be the Elite Four with that.

00:38:57   You know I could be the Pokemon champion with 200 Megas?

00:39:00   Do you know these words that we're using?

00:39:02   So it's still Broadwell.

00:39:06   Still quite sad.

00:39:07   But why are you sad about this?

00:39:09   I mean, if you're going to update the Mega Reverberate, update it.

00:39:12   What they've done is they've moved it to the chips that they can use.

00:39:15   Yeah.

00:39:16   They obviously just couldn't get the chips anymore.

00:39:17   I'm sure that's all it is. The MacBook and the MacBook Pros are now Kaby Lake.

00:39:22   Kaby Lake sounds like a Pokemon. It has... Kaby Lake includes, I believe, I'm

00:39:29   sure all of ATP will correct me if I'm wrong, H.265 support, hardware

00:39:33   accelerated, which is nice. Still capped at 16 gigs of RAM, so those who are...

00:39:38   Oh really? I wonder about that. There's no 32, so those who wanted that, you gotta keep waiting.

00:39:43   I was just waiting for an iMac Pro, I think you can get like a thousand.

00:39:45   Yeah. Is that right?

00:39:46   Yeah. It's a mega ram.

00:39:48   A thousand ram.

00:39:49   Mega ram.

00:39:49   Mega ram.

00:39:49   One mega ram.

00:39:50   One mega ram.

00:39:52   Mega ram sounds like a fun one.

00:39:54   [laughter]

00:39:57   iMacs.

00:39:58   Never again.

00:39:58   So the regular iMacs are all Kaby Lake as well. They have Thunderbolt 3. They kept USB-A on the

00:40:04   back. So this Mac, I have a MacBook Pro in my lap that is increasingly warm as we keep recording

00:40:09   onto it.

00:40:09   That's a feature.

00:40:10   It is. It's just USB-C Thunderbolt 3. The iMac kept the USB-A ports, it kept the SD card slot.

00:40:18   Because there's just no argument.

00:40:19   Which infuriates me that it's now the MacBook Pro.

00:40:21   Alright, but the thing is, your argument, right?

00:40:24   I have plenty of room!

00:40:25   The argument now says there isn't.

00:40:26   Oh, you know what it's inside. Maybe there's no space inside.

00:40:30   The argument is that there's no space inside, it's too thin. You want the thinness,

00:40:33   you want a little screen on top of your keyboard, which I know you really want,

00:40:35   your little touch bar, you gotta get rid of your SD card slot. But there's no excuse on the iMac,

00:40:39   right?

00:40:40   Yeah, if they'd gotten rid of it, they'd have been rioting.

00:40:41   There's no excuse, so they can't do it. You know they want to.

00:40:43   It even has Ethernet still. So I have...

00:40:45   Yeah, especially the Ethernet. You know they want to get rid of it, right?

00:40:48   So next year, the iMac is like, I don't know, the size of a postage stamp.

00:40:52   Well, the iMac Pro even has like, faster...

00:40:54   It's got like 10 gig Ethernet. Mega Ethernet.

00:40:58   MegaNet.

00:40:59   MegaNet.

00:41:00   You get hooked into the MegaNet.

00:41:01   Mega RAM and MegaNet.

00:41:03   They're like the two different evolutions you can see.

00:41:06   You could take a different path, depending on the response.

00:41:07   You know, this show was really taking a turn, I wasn't expecting today.

00:41:10   This was how my own Federico's video game podcast was born.

00:41:13   Similar kind of thing, I wonder what happens next.

00:41:15   You forced me out.

00:41:16   There was a Pokemon Nintendo Direct this morning.

00:41:18   Oh yeah, what happened?

00:41:19   Nah, it wasn't my turn.

00:41:20   Nah, it wasn't my turn.

00:41:21   You were like, "Yeah, I'm gonna get up and dodge it."

00:41:22   Like, "No, I really don't got the decision."

00:41:26   It wasn't what we wanted.

00:41:27   So the big Mac hardware news, of course, is the iMac Pro.

00:41:32   Did you say the Mac Pro?

00:41:33   I said iMac Pro.

00:41:34   I think it's a Mac Pro though, right?

00:41:35   It is basically a Mac Pro.

00:41:36   I think you said I comma Mac Pro. You're the Mac Pro? Yes. It's like I robot. They've been working really hard on Steven for the last two years

00:41:44   He's ready to ship

00:41:46   Congratulations to all the employees. Why are you all so mean to me today?

00:41:49   So

00:41:53   The the stats are ridiculous. It's insane. Up to 18 core

00:41:57   up to

00:42:00   128 gigs of EEC RAM so that error correction protection. What does it mean? John

00:42:03   correction, protection. What does it mean? John Sierak used to really like that Ram.

00:42:06   He says it's good. It's the good Ram? It's like the good wine. So that's the seasoned Ram?

00:42:11   Yeah, seasoned. It comes from good vineyards. Seasoned in a barrel. From good Ramyards?

00:42:17   Yeah, it's really important. In High Sierra. It pairs nicely with grilled chicken.

00:42:23   So that's the good Ram? Yeah, that's the good Ram. What else? How many mega net and mega ram do we have here?

00:42:31   up to four terabytes of SSD. It's space gray. That's all you really need to know about it.

00:42:35   It's real pretty.

00:42:36   It is real. Yeah. So you saw it. It looks like Darth Vader's iMac, right?

00:42:40   Yeah. Darth Vader is the Star Trek.

00:42:42   Jar Jar Binks' dad.

00:42:45   He's from Guardians of the Galaxy.

00:42:46   That's the one with the parts and recreation guy. I know that.

00:42:50   Is he? I'm sorry.

00:42:51   My favorite thing about the iMac is that they made the peripherals black.

00:42:58   What is the show?

00:42:59   Yes.

00:42:59   The peripheral. And why?

00:43:01   And you can't.

00:43:02   OK, so I have many things to say about because that's just who I am.

00:43:05   If you're going to put a touch bar on an external Mac keyboard,

00:43:08   it's this external Mac keyboard. No touch bar.

00:43:11   Because you could if you said like this is the computer that needs a Y

00:43:14   or two keyboard, right?

00:43:16   Everyone goes, OK, because that's the type of person that does.

00:43:19   No, but you know what, though?

00:43:20   The same person doesn't want it.

00:43:22   Maybe. Right.

00:43:23   Because like people who want the iMac Pro don't want the touch bar.

00:43:26   Yeah, I feel reminded of it. Yeah.

00:43:28   So there's that.

00:43:30   It starts at five grand. So I think what happened here, I think this machine was the Mac Pro

00:43:37   replacement. Without a doubt.

00:43:38   And then whatever happened in the fall or the end of the year before that round table

00:43:42   like, "Oh shoot, we need to make a Mac Pro. We already have this iMac Pro. We have to

00:43:47   ship it. It's done."

00:43:48   What do we do with this now?

00:43:51   Make it black.

00:43:52   Just dip it in space grey.

00:43:54   You know, I gotta add a number pad.

00:43:57   What is that all about?

00:43:58   Pros love numbers.

00:44:00   People like number pads.

00:44:02   Can you buy it without it?

00:44:04   You can't show it to a store and buy the black stuff.

00:44:06   It only comes with the iMac Pro.

00:44:08   That's cool though. I like that.

00:44:10   It's just going to be a pain for me in 30 years.

00:44:12   This thing really reminds me of the Tam.

00:44:14   Oh yeah.

00:44:16   It's going to look really good on my desk next to my Tam.

00:44:18   So I have a question for you.

00:44:20   The second question is are you going to buy one?

00:44:22   But don't answer that question yet.

00:44:24   Okay.

00:44:26   you tell me why does the Mac Pro need to exist? That's the question and the iMac

00:44:34   Pro pushes the Mac Pro really far upstream like God only knows what the

00:44:40   Mac Pro is gonna cost now if this starts at five grand. Things that

00:44:45   I would want to see in a Mac Pro better than this would be

00:44:49   multi processor support so more than one actual CPU. All right so help me with

00:44:54   this right yes so when it says it has like 18 cores it's one chip it is so you

00:44:59   would have like two 18 core chips they run they work together yes and in

00:45:04   parallel with each other so it seems really true with all those chips and

00:45:07   core VR create VR stuff I wonder things not me so if you're dealing in like

00:45:13   video and audio the more the more the merrier the faster things render like

00:45:18   it's you know if you think about that how long it took to render your concert

00:45:21   video, the way you fix that is with more cores.

00:45:24   OK.

00:45:25   Just put more stuff in.

00:45:26   That's why it's a pro stuff.

00:45:27   Because when you get to these incredibly intensive tasks,

00:45:30   it's--

00:45:31   Stephen, please allow me to say this--

00:45:33   it's like having multiple machines.

00:45:35   Because all this stuff's working together.

00:45:37   You're multiplying the amount of processor

00:45:40   that you can have.

00:45:41   Stephen, help me.

00:45:42   Please help me.

00:45:44   Yeah, it's more parallel instructions, more lanes

00:45:47   to do stuff in.

00:45:48   So it's sharing the tasks.

00:45:51   So I think more than one CPU socket,

00:45:53   things like interchangeable GPUs.

00:45:57   So assuming the card slot idea is coming back,

00:46:01   which if Apple is serious about this,

00:46:02   and I think they are,

00:46:03   I think this proves they're serious about this stuff.

00:46:04   - I think the fact that they made this iMac the way it is

00:46:06   means that the Mac Pro is just gonna be a bunch of sockets.

00:46:10   - Yeah.

00:46:10   - It has to be, right?

00:46:11   - So swapping in GPUs more than one GPU,

00:46:14   putting in other types of cards.

00:46:15   So what a lot of, there are a lot of tower,

00:46:17   the cheese grater Mac Pro is still around

00:46:19   people use audio and video capture cards in them and or RAID cards and that stuff

00:46:24   I think could come back. User swappable RAM. So the RAM and this I have gotten

00:46:31   this confirmed now the RAM and the iMac Pro is not soldered to the board it's in

00:46:35   regular slots but you can't get to it because the iMac the iMacs are sealed

00:46:40   shut. As it should be because that's the thing I feel like you put your hand in it

00:46:43   will bite you. Oh yeah it looks mean but so I have you and I have the same iMac

00:46:48   We have the 27 inch 5k iMac.

00:46:50   That's a little RAM drawer on the back and I can put more RAM. So mine's at 32 gigs or whatever the max is.

00:46:54   You can't do that here. A Mac Pro would have to have that.

00:46:58   What's the maximum amount of RAM this thing can take? The iMac Pro can take 128. That's a lot of RAM.

00:47:03   That's all the RAM. That's like it. It's all of it. That's more than you need, right? Yeah.

00:47:07   That's more than... More for what we need. Again, if you're doing

00:47:09   VR development or your Pixar, yes, it's kind of the same thing the more the merrier, but for people, you know,

00:47:17   we're professional users but we're not like hardcore professional users. I don't need that.

00:47:21   Right because the amount of time that things take to happen for me like it's

00:47:25   time that you can wait. Right and for the stuff that you do and I do CPU is

00:47:29   more important. So the question is who is this machine for? I think it's for people

00:47:36   like us or people like full-time video editors people who you know want more

00:47:41   but don't necessarily need the horsepower is important to them the the

00:47:46   the raw power of the thing, but not necessarily the expandability, if that makes sense.

00:47:51   And I think there's a band of users in there, I don't know how big it is, what this does do is whatever pro hardware market they had,

00:47:57   they've now split between two machines, but...

00:48:00   How did they make this, right? Because they haven't changed the physical size of the case.

00:48:04   Which I'm a little worried about.

00:48:06   I can't, I don't, why didn't they just make it a little bit thicker?

00:48:08   I wish it was thicker.

00:48:10   Why'd they make it so hard on them?

00:48:12   Well yeah, I'm afraid it's like a Mac Pro situation, like we made this cool thing and we can't ever update it.

00:48:15   So it was at ATP last night, right? And John Syracuse is like, talk about a thermal corner.

00:48:19   You've just made another one. That's a risk, right? They're doing it again. Like the Mac Pro failed because they were too ambitious.

00:48:26   Right. I feel like they're being too ambitious again. So this thing has a

00:48:30   like new intake so the photos of it is like this huge intake on the back of it.

00:48:35   I loved it. That was like the first detail that they showed in the video. Yeah. It was like all these exhaust holes. Yeah.

00:48:40   Yeah, and they're moving like 80% more air than in the 5k iMac. So we'll see how it goes

00:48:45   You know, it's just I just find it really weird that they didn't make it a little bit bigger because like that back plate, right?

00:48:51   So that's not a standard part anymore because they've had to pull these holes in it

00:48:56   So it's not like it was a case of it saves money because we use the same parts

00:49:00   No, so I get a guy with a drill

00:49:02   He just walks along the line. Just get it in there. Yeah, that's how that's how manufacturing

00:49:08   I think that's how it works.

00:49:09   - It's a guy with a battery powered car.

00:49:10   - They just get one of those little robots.

00:49:11   But like, this is like,

00:49:14   can't innovate anymore, right?

00:49:16   Like it's that thing again.

00:49:18   This is a very impressive piece of hardware engineering.

00:49:23   I'm just worried that they've backed themselves

00:49:25   into a situation again. - We do.

00:49:26   - That they're gonna struggle to get back out of.

00:49:28   I really hope that when the development

00:49:32   of this machine started,

00:49:33   they knew the Mac Pro was suffering, right?

00:49:36   So like they knew why that yeah. Yeah, but like this thing, I mean, it looks incredible. Are you interested in it?

00:49:43   I am interested in it. So I'm really happy with my 5k iMac

00:49:46   I think I've got several more years where it's gonna meet my needs

00:49:49   But I think at the point where it doesn't I would look at iMac Pro versus a Mac Pro and see what makes sense for me

00:49:55   At this point if they were both, you know, say the Mac Pro I just described with modularity that that's out and this is out

00:50:02   I really like the all-in-one design

00:50:05   I like that it's clean and easy to set up. I don't necessarily it takes one space on yes

00:50:10   I'm not gaming so I'm not as interested in changing out GPUs, you know over the course of life of a machine

00:50:16   So but I think on all Apple is giving pro Mac users options

00:50:20   And I think that's what we wanted and I think that's what they're they're slowly doing I would only look at this

00:50:25   Seriously, like if there was a really good VR game like a really good VR story to tell it like it could handle it

00:50:32   it looks like

00:50:34   It would be a bad decision to go for this machine

00:50:36   Because it seems like it's a little underpowered now compared to what's happening in the PC world

00:50:41   So you would buy it now and have it for five years and by that time you can't open it

00:50:46   Yeah

00:50:46   I mean I think and I think for my use it

00:50:49   Probably makes sense to wait for a Mac Pro like because if the if the Mac Pro really does what I want it to do

00:50:54   Which is that I can put some?

00:50:56   Some good stuff in there for VR games like that's what I want

00:50:59   Because I've been thinking recently about buying a PC because I want to play an Oculus

00:51:04   or a Vive.

00:51:05   I want the top tier of VR gaming and you just can't do it with anything that's on the market

00:51:11   from Apple right now.

00:51:12   I mean, you kind of still can't even with this thing.

00:51:16   All of this today feels like a tacit endorsement of the fact that the Mac Pro will be focused

00:51:25   partly towards VR gaming.

00:51:27   I think so.

00:51:28   released this iMac Pro with all the same guts without a screen on it that like

00:51:33   what are you doing? So I hope that they're gonna take the really high

00:51:36   ground. Yeah. So yeah so that's I think that's the Mac stuff. And for all in all

00:51:41   in a year where the iPad which we're gonna talk about had so much attention

00:51:44   and so much great stuff happen like they did well with the Mac too. You know I

00:51:49   felt like it was pretty balanced in that regard that they're moving both of their

00:51:51   computing platforms forward. You know maybe tvOS paid the price but who cares.

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00:53:44   - So we also saw the introduction,

00:53:47   it's not really a tease,

00:53:48   like a full introduction of the home pod.

00:53:52   Hmm. Home pod. Home pod. I don't like it. Doesn't,

00:53:56   it doesn't doesn't roll off the tongue very well. Home pod.

00:53:59   Can you speak to the home pod? Home pod.

00:54:02   If it was called the poem hard, that would be way better.

00:54:05   But it doesn't make any sense. Poem hard.

00:54:07   Like if you just swap the P and the H around.

00:54:08   Just like Siri home. But so, yeah. So

00:54:11   I've been speaker the size of a bottle of water. It's like the size of an,

00:54:16   It's like as tall as a 7+ or something?

00:54:18   No, it's actually...

00:54:19   It looks very small.

00:54:20   No, it's not.

00:54:21   It's actually taller and chunkier than it looks from the photos.

00:54:25   It's more like... my guess...

00:54:27   I mean, I haven't actually measured with tape, but I think it's...

00:54:31   Oh, get on it!

00:54:32   I'm sorry!

00:54:33   You were in the hands-on area!

00:54:34   I'm sorry!

00:54:35   I think it's actually a little taller and a little fatter than the Sonos Play One.

00:54:41   Yeah, the One's like the cylinder type deal.

00:54:44   It's chunkier.

00:54:45   So it's got a little...

00:54:46   It's got a little action going on.

00:54:50   It has a bunch of speakers in it. It's hooked up. Seven tweeters.

00:54:59   Which is not like Twitter. It's seven tweeters. I mean, one is enough of Twitter.

00:55:04   And one Apple designed woofer.

00:55:07   Why are these words so silly? I don't know.

00:55:11   Because each of you have had way too much coffee. They are silly words. It is very much geared towards

00:55:17   Music. I think it's why pod is in the name

00:55:20   Yeah, they're bringing that brand back. Yeah, right. They're bringing the pod brand. So it's it's like

00:55:25   Pod brand. It's like one with Apple music. Yeah, it's all built into Apple music

00:55:32   Most of the voice control stuff is around the music. This is very much a music product. I said it on clockwise earlier

00:55:39   Apple always says that music's like really close to the heart of the company

00:55:42   companies don't have hearts, but it is important to them and

00:55:46   You always always get the sense like they're passionate about the music products that they get to introduce. Yeah

00:55:53   I'm wondering about this like

00:55:56   Did they want to make a music speaker or did they want to make a serious speaker but couldn't and then they made it music speaker?

00:56:02   My idea is they maybe wanted to make a serious speaker, but they didn't serious not good enough

00:56:08   Siri is not good enough.

00:56:09   - I don't mean like Siri the service, Siri kit.

00:56:12   - Yeah.

00:56:13   - Siri kit is not advanced enough.

00:56:14   - Siri kit is not as flexible or as open

00:56:17   as they would like them to be.

00:56:18   So they went with a different angle.

00:56:21   Let's sell the music aspect, which is ready to go.

00:56:24   It's got Apple music.

00:56:25   We've got millions of subscribers.

00:56:26   Everybody's happy.

00:56:27   - They've got a musicologist.

00:56:28   - It's a musicologist, which is a very fun word to say.

00:56:32   - Better than HomePod.

00:56:34   - HomePod, hey, can you talk to musicologists?

00:56:37   - Yeah, it's kind of cool.

00:56:38   So it's an easier sell.

00:56:40   Also, most people, I guess, in Apple's mind,

00:56:42   relate to the idea of playing music,

00:56:45   even though the success of the Echo

00:56:46   kind of tells another story.

00:56:48   Like, people seem to be acquainted with the idea

00:56:50   of having that lady in the tube in the kitchen

00:56:53   or the living room.

00:56:54   - Here's the thing though, right?

00:56:54   I play music on the Echo,

00:56:56   and I don't know what everyone's problem is.

00:56:59   - It's not great, but it's fine.

00:57:00   - It's fine.

00:57:01   - But you know where I also play music?

00:57:02   On the speaker of my iPhone.

00:57:04   - Yeah.

00:57:04   - Right, like the Echo is vastly superior to that.

00:57:06   The bar is really pretty low in my household.

00:57:09   I don't have a son- since it's one, I'm not particularly enthused by this product because

00:57:14   it is fulfilling a desire that I don't have.

00:57:17   Which is to have a device that plays music.

00:57:19   I love music, but I don't play it in there.

00:57:22   I don't just have music on in the house, it's not something that I ever do.

00:57:27   I have it in my ears.

00:57:28   Like so when I'm doing something or going somewhere, like there's very rarely music

00:57:33   on.

00:57:34   made a product that played music that you could just put in your ear. What would you

00:57:39   call that? You would call it a home ear. An ear pod. No, they already made that. Head

00:57:52   pod. A head pod. There you go. That's going to be their VR goggles. I think the easiest

00:57:59   - There's a way to describe this.

00:58:00   It's a Sonos with Siri.

00:58:04   - Yeah, and it's with, so let's talk about the Siri thing.

00:58:07   It is not, this is not what some of us wanted

00:58:12   or what people were expecting

00:58:13   to be a direct Echo competitor.

00:58:15   It's a really, it's a Sonos competitor

00:58:17   that does like some Siri stuff.

00:58:19   - Yeah, like it doesn't even have all of the things

00:58:22   the iPhone can do.

00:58:23   - Right, it's very limited, it's very,

00:58:25   you know, Siri has domains of knowledge,

00:58:27   it's very limited domains.

00:58:28   There's no SDK. And there's no SDK for it, which to your point earlier, four hours ago in the show,

00:58:34   maybe not everything needs an app store. My guess is that if this takes off, then maybe we'll see

00:58:40   SiriKit stuff come to it at some point in the future. But I think right now,

00:58:43   they know that their strength is in making a really good music thing, and controlling with your voice is nice, and

00:58:50   kind of go from there, as opposed to trying to take on both Sonos and

00:58:55   and Amazon, whose products they put on a slide next to each other, which is incredible, take

00:59:00   them on kind of one at a time and not both at once.

00:59:03   The problem with the SDK, and I think I mentioned this last time, is that Apple is relying on

00:59:08   apps being on your phone to use all these extensions. Because the way that Apple structured

00:59:16   the App Store, you cannot have a skill that lives in the cloud. And so I bet the reason

00:59:20   why we don't have an SDK now is that Apple has iCloud in place and Apple Music, the web

00:59:25   service in place, they're not ready to tell developers you should provide a web service

00:59:30   that allows people to use the speaker even if your iPhone, which is the direct controller

00:59:36   for the speaker is not at home. So what happens if I set up my HomePod with my iPhone and

00:59:44   I got my integrations because my iPhone has overcast and things and Todoist, all these

00:59:50   different apps, so when I'm home, the HomePod can talk to my iPhone. Then I go to WWDC.

00:59:56   Sylvia is at home, the HomePod loses what? The entire third-party integrations? So the big problem

01:00:04   here is either you install apps on the HomePod, so the stuff is all local and it uses the CPU that

01:00:11   they have, or every single skill, every single circuit domain becomes something in the cloud

01:00:19   that doesn't require any device, doesn't require any local installation, and every member of the family can talk to it.

01:00:24   I don't know.

01:00:27   This just isn't a product that I want.

01:00:29   It just seems easier the way that Amazon is doing. Like, you go to a website, you sign up, there's a skill,

01:00:37   everybody can use it. Whether it's Myke, Adina, Sylvia for the vehicle, everybody can use it.

01:00:43   You don't need to account for who's at home now.

01:00:46   So Apple went with the opposite direction, which is also the easiest solution.

01:00:50   We're just not going to do it now, which there's no SDK,

01:00:53   which leads to my biggest question and it being part of this keynote.

01:00:56   So I wrote a thing earlier this week or last week sometime like

01:00:59   if they're going to announce it now, but it ships later in the year.

01:01:03   My thought was they would do that because the developers write stuff for it.

01:01:07   But developers aren't writing anything for this.

01:01:10   That's a really good point. Why did they do this?

01:01:12   Why in the world was it not in the September?

01:01:15   why is it not in the September event with the iPhone?

01:01:17   Yeah, I don't know. Because if the idea was we want people to see this,

01:01:22   put it with the iPhone. Yeah. Yeah. That doesn't make any sense.

01:01:25   In a keynote that was so packed, why did this make the cut?

01:01:30   Because developers can't touch it. Yeah. So is it, is it that,

01:01:34   you know, they don't want it to leak? Maybe, maybe that's what it is.

01:01:37   Is it that there's, there's so much talk of them doing something,

01:01:41   they felt like they had to address it?

01:01:42   Yeah, maybe because sometimes... In which case do a Mac Pro teaser can't innovate anymore and then show it in September.

01:01:47   It just seems very weird that I got so much stage time. I'm not complaining. I think it's a nice product. I'm with you

01:01:52   I'm not sure I'm gonna buy one, but it felt it felt like the the odd product out in this keynote.

01:01:56   I feel like they almost had a feeling of

01:01:59   We've been

01:02:01   Getting all this, you know this criticism of we're not doing this and we're not doing that

01:02:07   so we'll just make a keynote where nobody can complain and

01:02:11   The side effect is now they can they get to almost develop this stuff in the open because everybody knows they're doing a speaker now

01:02:18   So they're more free to approach third parties or whatever and they can do things like we want to make an SDK

01:02:24   And it's no big secret because we everybody knows we're doing a speaker

01:02:27   And so I feel like there's almost a sentiment of we're just gonna have it to our keynote

01:02:32   And we're gonna show you everything even if you don't have an SDK or the IMAX are not shipping, but whatever

01:02:37   We just don't want to hear your complaints anymore

01:02:40   That's not wrong and it's not a bad it's not a okay because the thing is right the situation we were all different

01:02:47   Let's say like the home part. I'm like, it looks nice

01:02:50   I just don't want it and that's not a criticism against Apple like I don't have to own everything they make right what?

01:02:57   But if they didn't show it today this whole show we'd be talking about the fact that Apple is now behind like what are they?

01:03:03   Doing yes, I speaker so like it's just from a PR perspective

01:03:06   Show your cards. Just show it. Right.

01:03:08   Because it's like some people are going to really like this.

01:03:10   Some people are not.

01:03:11   And the fact that I mean, funnily enough, the fact that there isn't an app store

01:03:14   for it means that it's kind of less of a focus in that way,

01:03:18   because it's just like if they were if it was an app store. Right.

01:03:20   It's a platform.

01:03:22   They've unveiled a new platform.

01:03:24   You got a new platform.

01:03:25   Then you've got a lot riding on it.

01:03:27   This is almost like even less important than the Apple TV,

01:03:30   because it's just a box that plays Apple Music.

01:03:33   Right. That you can ask maybe the weather.

01:03:36   It's not a musicologist.

01:03:38   So you know what I mean? It just feels like it's less stakes, which means that they can show it off today and it not be maybe everything that show all people, but it's less table stakes.

01:03:49   Yeah, so I think it would do well for people who want this sort of thing. For people who aren't interested in an echo, maybe for privacy reasons, maybe they want something that's going to be in the Apple ecosystem, like I think it will do well.

01:04:02   349 makes it competitive with stuff like the Sonos. It's interesting to remember that Sonos

01:04:08   is the only third-party service that has Apple Music in it. Apple and Sonos clearly are partners

01:04:12   at some point and now they're gunning for them on their WWDC keynote slide deck.

01:04:17   I mean they're selling Sonos in the Apple stores.

01:04:19   For now.

01:04:20   For now.

01:04:21   I wonder if it goes away.

01:04:22   Oh that stops now. Right, that's stopping. There's no way that December comes that you'll

01:04:26   be able to go in and buy. They're gonna want to start getting rid of Bluetooth speakers.

01:04:31   Yeah, this feels like like an

01:04:33   Listen to me like a some kind of betrayal like hey. Yeah, we'll have you in the Apple store

01:04:39   Yeah, well the Apple music integration

01:04:41   Yes, I mean when we make a deal with a company the size of Apple you got to be prepared

01:04:45   But isn't some of us working with Amazon

01:04:47   Yes, that's it. Yeah, so maybe they've shifted or the landscape has changed clearly

01:04:52   There's tension between Apple and Amazon in the past so we start the countdown clock on Sonos I

01:04:57   I kind of feel like it's time.

01:04:59   It does feel like, uh, it does feel like, uh, you know, the, the, the assassination

01:05:04   of Caesar in the, in the Roman times at 2 brutal.

01:05:07   Yeah.

01:05:08   It feels like a new apple.

01:05:10   That's heavy.

01:05:11   Yes, quite.

01:05:12   A2 apple.

01:05:13   A2 apple.

01:05:14   Eddy Cue stabbed you in the back.

01:05:19   So yeah.

01:05:20   I don't know.

01:05:21   It's like, it's fine.

01:05:22   Sure.

01:05:23   I agree with you.

01:05:24   partially because for streaming music we're a Spotify family. We have Spotify hooked up to the Echo.

01:05:29   It's great. And we listen to a lot of podcasts. And now this, they announced AirPlay 2. It's very hand-wavy at this point.

01:05:37   If you can AirPlay from this to another device or to it, or has Bluetooth support, no one really knows yet.

01:05:43   But I don't, as a non-Apple Music subscriber, that's a big ding on this right off the bat.

01:05:49   Question for both of you, you both pre-ordered an Echo show.

01:05:52   We did.

01:05:53   Is it a stay?

01:05:54   Yeah.

01:05:55   I think so.

01:05:56   Yeah, I'm not cancelling my pre-order.

01:05:57   I mean, also we should say it's coming out in December in the US, UK and Australia.

01:06:02   Australia.

01:06:03   Yeah, but I mean Echo show's not coming out in Italy, but you're still getting one.

01:06:07   Yeah, but John is shipping you one.

01:06:09   I know, I'm just saying like a similar deal, but like...

01:06:11   Yeah, but I get it now.

01:06:13   I want my toys now.

01:06:14   Yeah.

01:06:15   I don't want to wait.

01:06:16   Six months.

01:06:17   No, no, no.

01:06:18   We're talking across the street.

01:06:19   I got it. I want to play with it. So I want to get it.

01:06:23   I'm still... I still don't think I want to...

01:06:26   Like, the Echo Show doesn't appeal to me. Like, I just...

01:06:29   I got it mostly to see what it's like for the show.

01:06:32   Whether it sticks around or not is a big question.

01:06:35   I just don't know if I need it.

01:06:36   I'm not canceling my pre-order.

01:06:38   I have so many screens in my house.

01:06:39   That's what my wife... You know, I think we talked about this.

01:06:41   That's what Mary says. She doesn't want a screen in the kitchen.

01:06:44   She likes that the Echo is just background.

01:06:47   I really just don't think it's necessary.

01:06:48   for me, like I just don't think it's a necessary feature, but I'm willing to see

01:06:52   I mean, you know, this was kind of how I felt about the Echo in the first place.

01:06:56   So I'm I'm I'm keeping an open mind.

01:06:58   And this comes on the hill of Phil Schiller

01:07:01   throwing shade at these devices that don't have screens.

01:07:03   And then he released one that doesn't have a screen.

01:07:05   And so I could see a path in the future that Apple had.

01:07:09   I hadn't thought that Apple adds a screen to the home pod.

01:07:12   It becomes the TV pod screen pod.

01:07:15   Display pod, I'm running out of pods.

01:07:18   that's when SiriKit comes to it and that it's like this whole thing but yeah it's

01:07:23   all very strange I like they're doing a music thing that's really mad you know I

01:07:28   agree with you it's probably not for me so that is home pod that's home pod so

01:07:36   we're going to talk about iOS 11 and of course the iPad I thought we'd over iOS

01:07:39   11 itself first and stuff that's coming to both the phone and the iPad and the

01:07:45   iPod touch, remember that thing? And then we'll take a break and we'll talk about the

01:07:49   iPad stuff.

01:07:50   Alright, Apple Music everywhere. Right? Everything looks like Apple Music.

01:07:53   Yeah, so new design, bold text, it's really clean. I'm a fan.

01:08:00   Bold text, big artwork.

01:08:03   Big artwork and big title bars. Like, they look empty. And I wonder, I'm gonna say now,

01:08:09   If that empty space is for the camera cutout.

01:08:14   They just look so empty man.

01:08:15   It's like when you open messages there's like this, some extra space for the title, but

01:08:21   it seems useless.

01:08:22   And it seems tight.

01:08:23   I saw a screenshot of iOS 11 running on iPhone SE and it's all really cramped.

01:08:29   You just see the title of the app.

01:08:31   Yeah, that's all it is.

01:08:32   There's messages and it wraps like four lines.

01:08:34   Yes, this is messages.

01:08:36   Welcome.

01:08:37   Thank you.

01:08:38   lot of scrolling. The App Store looks like Apple Music Now. There's a big push on

01:08:44   editorial content. So there is an app of the day, there's a game of the day, and

01:08:48   then there's app lists. And so right now if you're featured on the App Store you

01:08:52   want a 40 in a collection, right? Or you're in that rotating banner at the

01:08:56   top of five or six. Now if you're the app of the day you are quite literally

01:09:01   front and center on the App Store. Yeah those lists still exist on the

01:09:05   individual apps and games tab,

01:09:07   but they have this like overall big one

01:09:09   where they can make some big feature.

01:09:11   - That's a big promise from Apple.

01:09:13   - It's a huge, that's a big undertaking.

01:09:15   - We're gonna have stories,

01:09:16   we're gonna have interviews with developers,

01:09:17   we're gonna have tips and tricks,

01:09:18   we're gonna have videos.

01:09:19   It's a lot of content to create.

01:09:21   And I mean, I guess during the beta process,

01:09:24   we won't see the daily stuff.

01:09:25   I will assume we will get like a handful of those

01:09:28   just as a test, but then when September comes

01:09:30   and this stuff launches, you gotta keep up with this,

01:09:33   you know, whether it's new apps or new games,

01:09:35   maybe you want to put the spotlight on older titles.

01:09:38   But it's still a lot of content to create on a daily basis

01:09:40   and to put it on the front page

01:09:41   to make sure it rolls out internationally.

01:09:44   I mean, the App Store,

01:09:45   if you look at the Italian App Store at least,

01:09:47   you know, there's not a lot of curation going on.

01:09:51   So I wonder if this is--

01:09:52   - Blah, blah, blah, every day.

01:09:54   - Yeah, I mean, we're just gonna--

01:09:55   - Oh, blah, blah, all the time.

01:09:56   - Oh, blah, blah, all the time.

01:09:58   And I just wonder, can you do this on a regular basis?

01:10:01   I mean, sure, if you've got the people,

01:10:03   Apps are coming out all the time, so that's no problem.

01:10:06   Games are coming out and that's no problem.

01:10:09   But you gotta write the content.

01:10:10   - That's a big team.

01:10:11   - You gotta write the content.

01:10:13   You gotta come up with all the things that you've shown.

01:10:16   That said, it looks fantastic.

01:10:18   So.

01:10:19   - Monument Valley, man.

01:10:20   - Yeah.

01:10:20   - What a surprise.

01:10:21   - What a surprise, right?

01:10:22   - I bought it in your hotel room during the keynote.

01:10:25   - I'm saving it for the plane ride, huh?

01:10:26   - Yeah, me too.

01:10:27   - Does it matter the location why you bought it?

01:10:29   Where did you buy it?

01:10:31   - I bought it in the hotel room.

01:10:32   So I guess I gotta buy it.

01:10:33   - You gotta buy it.

01:10:34   We're boring our hotel room, so you gotta buy it too.

01:10:37   - I bought it laying in your bed.

01:10:38   - I'll do that.

01:10:39   - Just quick. - My bad?

01:10:40   - How much money?

01:10:42   How much money?

01:10:43   How big is the check that Apple wrote?

01:10:44   - Mega millions.

01:10:45   - It's gotta be huge, right?

01:10:47   - Mega dollars.

01:10:47   - 'Cause they said it's exclusive to the App Store,

01:10:49   didn't they?

01:10:50   And like, do you remember that picture of Tim Cook

01:10:52   with the US2 team?

01:10:53   - Yeah.

01:10:54   - Like, this is--

01:10:56   - This is the game that was featured on House of Cards.

01:10:57   I mean, they've had a lot of high profile.

01:10:59   - I'm not 100% sure why they have done this

01:11:02   and why they made it a thing of the keynote,

01:11:05   but I'm really excited about it.

01:11:07   - It was, I think, a reminder that the app store,

01:11:10   the iOS app store still has a level up

01:11:13   on the Google Play Store.

01:11:15   And Apple can still demand these exclusives.

01:11:17   - Yeah, especially to the developer audience, right?

01:11:19   Like the people sitting in that room.

01:11:20   - Hey, you go iOS first or iOS only,

01:11:24   maybe we'll be here for you.

01:11:25   - I'm wondering if this is gonna turn

01:11:27   into console platforms, so E3 is next week.

01:11:30   like the big thing is like what exclusives can Microsoft sign and I'm

01:11:34   wondering like you know these companies have got huge checkbooks why not write

01:11:37   some exclusives that sign some checks. I think that's what they did here and it's that's

01:11:42   really intriguing to me to do more of this. Yeah so we see Apple pay peer-to-peer

01:11:47   in messages. I love it I just love it. So the three of us go out to dinner I pay and you

01:11:52   guys want to pay me back your segments you can you can message me money and

01:11:57   And it can go onto an Apple Cash card.

01:11:59   So you spoke about this on upgrade.

01:12:02   Maybe we'll dig that episode out

01:12:04   because it's really, it's a good conversation

01:12:06   about how these things work.

01:12:08   So Myke, you used to work in finance briefly

01:12:11   and so in a way that we can understand it as regular humans,

01:12:14   how do these cards work?

01:12:15   - All right, so what Apple I believe is doing here

01:12:19   is they are working with a card provider, probably Visa,

01:12:24   to create a list of prepaid cards.

01:12:29   So these are cards that you can load up with cash and spend.

01:12:33   Like, so you can get these now.

01:12:35   You get these plastic cards.

01:12:36   There's a bank in the UK called Mondo that is like this.

01:12:39   And you can get them like when you go traveling and stuff.

01:12:42   You can get like foreign currency on these cards.

01:12:45   So for all intents and purposes, they appear to be cards.

01:12:47   They just have a balance limit on them.

01:12:49   So I think what Apple is doing is generating with Visa

01:12:52   a bunch of these cards that there's no actual physical card for,

01:12:55   but it has everything it needs. It has a number, it has an expiry date,

01:12:58   and that's all loaded into Apple Pay. All users get those.

01:13:01   And then it just looks like a card.

01:13:04   It looks like a card when you pay in stores.

01:13:06   It looks like a card when you make transfers to people.

01:13:09   It's basically just a virtual debit card is what it is.

01:13:12   The thing that I'm interested to see is will Apple now enable these

01:13:17   purchases in the app store? Because that's when it gets really interesting.

01:13:21   This is when Apple is basically a bank at this point.

01:13:24   This is a big trend right now in 2017.

01:13:27   Companies want to be banks.

01:13:29   Because the thing that Apple get to do here is,

01:13:32   let's say you start transferring this money to me

01:13:33   and I've got some you've sent to me,

01:13:35   Steven sent some to me.

01:13:37   I'm gonna keep it around,

01:13:38   maybe I'll use it in the app store.

01:13:39   Apple's making money on that money.

01:13:41   It's sitting there making interest money, right?

01:13:43   So Apple is now holding all this cash.

01:13:45   - Oh God, how does money make money?

01:13:47   - They can invest it,

01:13:49   and they can also make interest on it.

01:13:51   What they'll be doing is taking that money--

01:13:53   - Like PayPal charges you a fee,

01:13:55   but Dwalla holds your money for three days.

01:13:57   - That's a bank.

01:13:58   - This is what I'm saying.

01:14:00   Right, so this is why, when this was first rumored,

01:14:03   Ricoh had this report weeks ago.

01:14:05   This is likely to very much upset

01:14:08   Apple's banking partners for Apple Pay.

01:14:10   This is a real big risky move they're making here,

01:14:14   because what Apple is saying is,

01:14:16   Your card is now redundant because we have our own and people can pay with it in stores and they can pay with it in our store.

01:14:22   But what happens to it?

01:14:24   Take this money to hold it to make money on it.

01:14:26   And then if you put it back into their store again, that's even more money with no fees.

01:14:31   It's very interesting. This is a big play from Apple to the point where like in three or four years,

01:14:41   this might be where your money goes.

01:14:43   Like if they keep rolling it out and we have these cards and these like virtual

01:14:47   accounts, just get your salary paid to it.

01:14:49   That's dependent on people doing the peer to peer payments.

01:14:52   So what if I don't have any friends who send me money?

01:14:55   I'll never have an Apple wallet.

01:14:57   So yeah, you would have to get your salary transferred.

01:14:59   Or you could load it.

01:15:00   You can load your, you can probably load money in yourself.

01:15:03   I mean, I think that, you know, we'll probably have like podcast hosts

01:15:06   who want to be paid this way, you know, as opposed to PayPal and wallet.

01:15:09   Providing that they have the a good level of report and for taxes. Yeah

01:15:13   This could be a great way for me to get paid. Yeah to cut PayPal out

01:15:18   Yeah, and that I could do it, you know as a business and have my business account. I mean, there's there's questions there

01:15:23   They may you know, there may be language in there that forbids business transactions, you know, who knows but it's a nice move

01:15:30   It seems really well integrated people already trust the Apple pay system and touch ID. They're building on all the tech. They already had

01:15:37   We also see in iOS 11

01:15:40   We're seeing some new live photo stuff so you can edit live photos. You can make them loop or bounce back. This is all so fantastic

01:15:47   I'm so happy to do more of live photos. Me too. Like this is so good. I'm so excited for all of that.

01:15:51   I wasn't a fan of them initially, but I sort of have come around a lot

01:15:55   Especially, you know kids and pets and you know, it's it's a lot of fun so you can edit them

01:16:00   You can save them out as different things now

01:16:02   We talked about the App Store

01:16:05   Let's get to control center. I

01:16:07   For one so control center right now is two panes unless you have homekit then it's three you have you're now playing stuff

01:16:15   You have your regular control center stuff, you know flashlight

01:16:17   Rotation lock that sort of thing then you have a homekit panel if you have the home app configured

01:16:22   So my phone and iPad I've got three

01:16:24   With iOS 11 they've they've collapsed it back into one. There's no side to side. It's all completely modular

01:16:33   You can go into settings and configure what goes into it where it sits what comes out of it. There's sliders

01:16:38   There's all sorts of controls. There'll be a link to a mac rumor story in the show notes

01:16:42   This looks incredibly

01:16:45   Confusing to me. I think like awesome. I

01:16:48   Think it's so cool. I love the way it looks

01:16:50   And I love I love the fact that there's so many things I can do in it

01:16:54   I think it's fantastic customization, but I feel like a everyone's control center is gonna be different

01:16:59   It's like when someone asks you how to turn my flashlight on, you're like, well,

01:17:02   you know, see me, you know, it's really easy now.

01:17:04   It's going to be harder in the new one, but yeah,

01:17:07   I'm not a fan of how it looks. And I think that some of,

01:17:10   some of the labels and stuff, you're kind of going to have to know what they are.

01:17:13   Um, cause so many more things can be surfaced into it.

01:17:17   There's a full Apple TV remote and control center. Now, you know, right now,

01:17:21   you know,

01:17:21   now if you have the Apple TV remote installed and you like pan on the Apple

01:17:26   Siri remote to a text input, you get a push notification on your phone and you

01:17:31   can type right to the, it's really nice.

01:17:33   So I like them making the iPhone and iPad a better Apple TV remote because

01:17:38   the Apple TV remote stinks.

01:17:40   I don't know how, how I feel about control center.

01:17:44   I think I, uh, I love the customization customization.

01:17:47   I'm not sure about the UI, uh, probably because it's beta one.

01:17:51   It's I bet it's going to change.

01:17:52   Usually we've got this kind of UI refinements throughout the summer.

01:17:56   I love the idea of, here you go, you have multiple blocks.

01:18:01   It's kind of like Lego for shortcuts.

01:18:03   You can sort of mix and match the ones

01:18:05   that you need the most,

01:18:06   and you kind of have your own placements.

01:18:08   And, you know, it seems to me like it's obvious

01:18:12   we're gonna get third-party shortcuts in the future,

01:18:15   that it's gonna be a new extension point.

01:18:17   That is not available right now,

01:18:20   but Apple is making a ton of new shortcuts.

01:18:22   Like, I saw someone's control center last night,

01:18:25   and they had a shortcut to create a new note, for example.

01:18:28   I love the idea.

01:18:32   I'm surprised that Apple is kind of doing,

01:18:35   going in the opposite direction on last year of,

01:18:37   we're gonna break it into multiple pages

01:18:40   and so we have more room to breathe

01:18:43   and to show you deeper, richer controls.

01:18:45   And now they're sort of going back to,

01:18:47   it's a single dashboard, you know,

01:18:50   with all these widgets.

01:18:52   I'm surprised you're not looking at me right now, Steven.

01:18:54   saying words that should catch your interest.

01:18:57   - I'm just trying to catch my breath.

01:19:00   - Just keep it together?

01:19:01   - Keep it together.

01:19:02   It is widget-y.

01:19:04   - It is widget-y, and it's very different from last year,

01:19:08   where it's so elegant, it's so pretty,

01:19:10   and it's multiple pages you can swipe.

01:19:12   Now it's, yeah, you know what,

01:19:13   just make a single page and a bunch of buttons.

01:19:16   - Yeah, this is my aesthetic.

01:19:18   I love it.

01:19:19   - I think I would like it too,

01:19:20   and especially how you can open like the contextual windows from last year.

01:19:26   We got those especially in the HomeKit page of Control Center,

01:19:29   where you can press to open the, you know, the volume, not the volume,

01:19:33   the intensity adjustment UI for lights, colors.

01:19:38   So you had these contextual windows inside of Control Center.

01:19:41   Now they are pop ups in the single page.

01:19:43   So like the music player becomes a bigger one with the artwork

01:19:46   and with the progress bar. I like it.

01:19:49   - All relying on 3D Touch? - Yeah.

01:19:51   - Or fake 3D Touch. - You can turn personal hotspot on and off.

01:19:54   Yeah, there's some weird long-press stuff on the iPad now.

01:19:57   - But it was not us here. - There's way more of it.

01:20:01   - Like, I know you can do it, but it's everywhere. - Yeah.

01:20:05   Maybe the new iPad Pro will... Oh, no.

01:20:07   They're not gonna do it. It's too difficult. It's far too difficult,

01:20:10   but long-press is kind of solving the problem.

01:20:12   Yeah, BrokenFlows on Twitter had asked,

01:20:14   "Do you think we'll see third-party apps in this?"

01:20:17   and I agree with you Federico, I think it definitely will.

01:20:20   Not yet.

01:20:20   Not yet, because if this works, if the people don't sort of grab the pitchforks

01:20:29   because Control Center is different, if this works and it doesn't change again next year,

01:20:34   it makes sense that WWDC 2018 to be like, there's a new extension point,

01:20:38   you can make your own icons and your own buttons.

01:20:39   So let me offer a theory.

01:20:44   If this is successful and they open it up to developers,

01:20:48   this could become the system that Apple would finally update Springboard with

01:20:53   more stuff. Like I could see this,

01:20:55   this system graduating from control center.

01:20:58   Like what if I want Screenbrin is on my home screen or in the today view?

01:21:03   Like why does this stuff have to be?

01:21:04   The new iPad software is showing it Springboard is going through work because

01:21:10   Just we're moving into the iPad now.

01:21:13   I think we're very close to this, but like there is stuff in there

01:21:18   that is so vastly different from how it was before.

01:21:21   So I think you're right.

01:21:22   I think this could be the beginning of a change where we could start to get some more.

01:21:26   It could start break out of the grid before we talk about the iPad.

01:21:31   Just two minutes on whatever is going on with notifications,

01:21:34   because it doesn't make sense. Makes no sense.

01:21:37   It makes no sense.

01:21:37   So they've changed from basically now notification center is the lock screen.

01:21:43   It doesn't lock your phone, but it is the lock screen.

01:21:48   So when you swipe down, it goes back to the lock screen.

01:21:50   You see the big clock at the top and see a lock screen wallpaper.

01:21:54   If you have different, it basically it, what they've done, I think is

01:21:58   they've changed the layering in iOS that now instead of like the lock screen

01:22:03   of cases are being side by side, they've merged and they're on top of springboard.

01:22:07   It is weird. I played with it a little bit on an iPad yesterday.

01:22:10   And I think like every other lock screen change will get used to it.

01:22:14   Like I remember talking about a year ago how weird Iowa SIN's lock screen was.

01:22:18   Yeah, I just don't understand why I'm a slide on lock still.

01:22:21   Why you cannot have the notification center layer.

01:22:25   That is also the widget layer. And he remembers where you are.

01:22:29   Yeah, I don't know.

01:22:30   I think that I think that it's just broken on the iPad right now.

01:22:33   They're not going to get rid of the widgets.

01:22:35   - They're on the phone and it doesn't make sense either.

01:22:37   - Yeah, I think honestly, I think with the way it is

01:22:40   right now, this is just like a little,

01:22:41   it's like a bit broken, you bet you want it.

01:22:42   I think it's gonna be refined, the dual pane back,

01:22:45   the widgets back, I think all it is,

01:22:47   they're just trying to like stop it from being in two places

01:22:51   'cause it's in two places right now, right?

01:22:53   You have the lock screen

01:22:54   and you have the notification center shade.

01:22:57   They're the same thing.

01:22:58   They are the same-- - That was pretty nice.

01:23:00   - Yeah, but they're the same thing, right?

01:23:01   So they're just like, well, we're just gonna make it one,

01:23:03   It all looks the same, it's one thing.

01:23:05   I can kind of see it,

01:23:06   as long as they preserve the existing functionality,

01:23:09   it's just rather than having two views.

01:23:10   - They're not bringing back your--

01:23:12   - No, I know that's not coming back.

01:23:13   That's gone, that's never coming back, the sorting options.

01:23:16   But it's just weird, but honestly,

01:23:19   I just think it's not complete yet.

01:23:23   So I'm gonna give a couple more betas

01:23:24   and we can come back to that.

01:23:25   See how I see that shipping out,

01:23:26   'cause it doesn't make any sense right now.

01:23:28   - The other thing they did,

01:23:30   it's iPad only, but on the lock screen,

01:23:32   If you have an iPad Pro with a pencil,

01:23:35   you bring the pencil down the lock screen,

01:23:36   you can configure it to automatically launch a note.

01:23:39   And this note is like sandboxed away from your other notes.

01:23:42   You just put stuff in it.

01:23:43   It kind of turns the iPad into like a clipboard almost.

01:23:46   Or like a new-- - Samsung.

01:23:47   - Yeah. - Galaxy Note stuff.

01:23:48   I think it's awesome.

01:23:49   - Newton did it first. - Sure did it.

01:23:51   I think it's really cool.

01:23:52   I think it's a good idea.

01:23:53   So you just like, just write your note.

01:23:54   - I like it.

01:23:55   It makes it really fast.

01:23:56   You don't have to like unlock the iPad

01:23:58   and find your notes app and create a new note.

01:23:59   - It's a nice shortcut.

01:24:00   - I think it's great.

01:24:01   really looking forward to using it. Yeah, I think with all the lock screen stuff, I

01:24:06   mean, that stuff is up to change a little bit maybe, but I think it's one of those

01:24:10   things we're just going to get used to because we use it dozens of times a day.

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01:25:17   So the new iPad. I think that's it. So they're new iPads. Two new iPads. I'll run through

01:25:27   the specs and I'll let you guys go because I know you've been itching. 10.5

01:25:30   inch 12.9 inch spec wise they're the same so the A10X Fusion chip, 6

01:25:36   quart like the iPhone 3 fast 3 slow 4 gigs of RAM the camera system from the

01:25:41   iPhone 7 they both have true tone they both have USB 3 fast charging they are

01:25:47   the same iPad except for the screen size yeah which is great. We're going back to

01:25:54   the era of same iPad, same hardware, different sizes.

01:25:58   I think that's how it should be.

01:25:59   Yeah, I agree.

01:26:01   And the 10.5, I'm really interested to see how it compares to the 9.7 because I've

01:26:11   only had some brief hands-on experience in the demo area and it looks like it keeps the

01:26:20   a compact form factor of the 9.7 but it sort of extends the display a little and so I don't

01:26:27   know if, you know, I'm a big iPad Pro user so I don't know if even if it's…

01:26:32   Really? Yeah.

01:26:33   Interesting.

01:26:34   Yeah, yeah, I am.

01:26:35   That's a weird thing to say. I really like the iPad Pro.

01:26:39   No, I mean I use the big iPad Pro.

01:26:42   Oh, oh, you're a big iPad Pro user.

01:26:45   It's like big…

01:26:46   You're a big user of the iPad Pro.

01:26:48   I'm a big guy. I misunderstood. Yeah, I'm sorry. Yeah, that's what I meant. Can we hug? Yeah

01:26:54   We got we got a what

01:26:58   And I'm really interested like I

01:27:02   Compares to the big bro sort of can I use it is the keyboard big enough is the split view big enough it does it?

01:27:08   Feel feel like to full iPad apps at the same time. Probably not it isn't it isn't I mean

01:27:13   I've I've seen people talk about it and I actually said that's that's where they differ

01:27:17   So the rumor had been the 10.5 inch will have the 12.9 resolution in a smaller screen, just

01:27:24   like the iPad and the iPad mini.

01:27:26   That is not true.

01:27:27   The 10.5 inch iPad has a new third screen resolution that is in between.

01:27:32   It's larger than the 9.7, but not as big as the 12.9, which is probably the right way

01:27:36   to go.

01:27:38   Things won't be shrunken down, but it means that split screen isn't going to be two vertical

01:27:44   iPad apps side by side.

01:27:46   it's gonna be more like the 9.7,

01:27:48   we have one that's closer to the iPhone class.

01:27:50   So yeah, that's a little bit of a mixed bag, I think.

01:27:53   - Yeah. - Yeah.

01:27:54   I really want the 10.5,

01:27:58   my hope was that the 10.5 would give me everything I wanted,

01:28:01   but I'm not so sure anymore.

01:28:04   Like, I think it might be that I still maintain

01:28:07   the multi-pad lifestyle,

01:28:09   because especially now, 12.9 with True Tone.

01:28:14   - It's gonna look real good.

01:28:14   And the 120 hertz refresh rate is going to look awesome, I bet.

01:28:18   I'm very excited to see how that's going to look like playing games at 60 frames

01:28:23   a second. So like

01:28:25   like I said, in Nintendo Switch, right, there are times where you play a game,

01:28:28   same game like Mario Kart, one time 30 frames next to 60.

01:28:32   You really see it like it looks kind of like it's not real,

01:28:36   like there's too much motion.

01:28:37   Like if you shoot video in 30 frames a second or 60 frames a second,

01:28:41   and I expect it's going to look something like that. Yeah.

01:28:43   But the big story is the software.

01:28:48   It's everything we wanted.

01:28:50   It's everything we wanted.

01:28:53   Yeah, it's just they took Sierra and they just, they polished it.

01:28:57   Wrong.

01:28:58   Sorry.

01:28:59   And they shipped it on the iPad.

01:29:00   Okay, so.

01:29:01   I was very emotional yesterday.

01:29:05   There's a picture of you in the show notes already.

01:29:07   Okay, did you do the before and after?

01:29:11   The two John tweets?

01:29:13   Yeah, yeah. Okay. We're good. I almost do not remember that portion of the keynote at

01:29:20   this point. I was getting worried after the iOS segment, like they were showing all these

01:29:27   features and they kind of glossed over the iPad. And so when they said, you know, item

01:29:32   on our list number six to talk about, number five to talk about at the keynote is the iPad.

01:29:38   I was, you know, strapping in and I was ready.

01:29:41   But when I think there was a moment, probably when the new dock came up

01:29:47   or when the when the drag and drop slide came up, I was like,

01:29:50   this is happening.

01:29:53   This is, you know, they're doing it.

01:29:54   That made me so nervous was when Tim said this is the biggest iPad update ever.

01:29:59   I was like, don't say that.

01:30:02   Like, don't say it.

01:30:03   Like, say it afterwards. Don't say it before.

01:30:05   But it is, though, right?

01:30:06   It is. It is.

01:30:07   So me and you were talking about this, right?

01:30:10   Because there's a lot of jokes about, oh, they just made it the Mac.

01:30:13   And it's an easy joke. We've already made it funny.

01:30:15   But the thing is.

01:30:17   What they've done, adding things like the doc,

01:30:20   added things like spaces, adding things like files,

01:30:23   they've taken ideas from computing.

01:30:27   Right. So these are all ideas that exist on the Mac.

01:30:30   These ideas exist on Windows.

01:30:32   They've taken what these things are, why people need them,

01:30:36   and then created solutions to those problems on iOS.

01:30:41   I think it's called experience.

01:30:43   Like you've known how things went in the past,

01:30:48   and you wanna build upon that because yes,

01:30:51   maybe sometimes the solution is an old idea,

01:30:54   but we shouldn't conflate old ideas

01:30:58   with new implementation of those old ideas.

01:31:02   There's a difference between taking an old idea

01:31:04   and just making it work as it is,

01:31:06   or as it used to be, and taking the old idea,

01:31:09   but sort of reimagining it and making it feel modern

01:31:12   and sort of working around the limitations of the past.

01:31:15   There's a good example, I think, of taking an old concept

01:31:19   but making it new and making it feel IOS-y,

01:31:23   sort of very native to the platform.

01:31:26   And that's the Finder compared to Files,

01:31:29   the new app for file management on IOS 11.

01:31:33   In the Finder, companies like Dropbox have been able to sort of hack into the UI to install

01:31:39   these custom directories with special privileges. And it's pretty great because it allows you

01:31:46   to have a top level Dropbox destination and you can have badges. On iOS 11 and with the

01:31:52   Files app, everything is just an extension point. So third party storage companies like

01:31:58   Box and Dropbox and I assume Google Drive if Google ever gets into you know to work with API.

01:32:04   Google Drive was on the slide and it was mentioned on stage.

01:32:07   I assume it'll work.

01:32:07   So like we don't know that they're confirmed but like my feelings if they spoke about them

01:32:12   they at least know about it? Like Apple's at least spoken to these companies?

01:32:16   So in the old era you had the Finder and if you wanted to have like a different storage service

01:32:23   you had to sort of do all these hacks and workarounds. Now you can have a do-over because

01:32:29   you get the chance to reimagine these features so you know that people are going to ask for

01:32:33   different services than iCloud Drive so why not just make it secure, make it safe, make

01:32:37   it integrated into the UI and the system and make it an extension.

01:32:42   The best way to improve a platform like this is to just understand and accept that as Apple

01:32:47   you can't do it all. Like you need help from other people. You can't just be like "iCloud

01:32:52   awesome move all your Dropbox photos to iCloud. That is a bad solution. Like the

01:32:57   solution is integrate it, give it a great API, make it safe, lock it down the way

01:33:03   that you want and then you're good to go. And it incentivizes the companies to do

01:33:07   so. So say that Box and Google Drive do it but Dropbox doesn't. Then it's not

01:33:13   that Apple looks bad, it's that Dropbox looks bad. The argument that Apple is

01:33:17   taking the Mac features and it's boring because it's just a Mac on the iPad, it

01:33:22   That doesn't make a lot of sense to me because look at the way for example that we've gone

01:33:26   from cars to electric cars.

01:33:29   Still a car, still an old idea, but it's done in a new way.

01:33:35   And I think that's what we should understand that old ideas are always going to be sticking

01:33:41   around but it's how you make them work in practice that makes a difference.

01:33:47   And so we were trying this morning, we were playing around with an iPad that was running

01:33:51   iOS 11.

01:33:54   And it's really different.

01:33:56   I'm not sure, I mean we'll probably come up with some, you know, complaints or things

01:34:02   we don't like but overall it feels amazing.

01:34:06   Like drag and drop, the multitasking UI is different, you can drag and drop apps, you

01:34:12   You have a file manager, there's just so much stuff all at once and what developers will

01:34:18   be able to do with this.

01:34:21   It makes me question if, I mean I already know I'm going to create way fewer workflows

01:34:28   because I can now do things like drag and drop and because apps are going to be able

01:34:33   to communicate together to exchange the same files so less automation will be needed.

01:34:38   But I feel like it's a new beginning for the iPad and it's sort of a one-two punch of you're

01:34:45   getting the hardware now and you're going to get the software later.

01:34:48   I feel like that's been very much planned and it's what Apple wants to do to sort of

01:34:54   give you the new hardware and make you wait until September for a whole new story.

01:34:58   And I'm really excited to see where they go with this.

01:35:02   Yeah, I've just been blown away by it.

01:35:06   everything that we were wanting and in ways that I didn't really imagine like

01:35:12   some of the implementation is just so good. Like the drag-and-drop stuff is

01:35:15   fantastic like and it looks like there might be better rich tech support as

01:35:20   well which is just I'm so excited about the prospect of that. I was at the State

01:35:24   of the Union yesterday and Adobe was showing us the showing of this demo of

01:35:29   picking up multiple color palettes and tools from one of their sketching apps

01:35:34   And initially I thought, oh well, they're just gonna pick up multiple colors and drop

01:35:40   them somewhere else.

01:35:42   But then what they did was they picked up with drag and drop different types.

01:35:47   So one was a color and the other was a brush.

01:35:51   They're two different items in terms of software.

01:35:54   One is a color, the other is a tool.

01:35:56   And they dropped them into a sort of a toolbar and the system was able to intelligently understand

01:36:03   you want a red brush. So it's this kind of combination of multiple items and drag and

01:36:09   drop with multiple files at the same time and then they went into a different app and

01:36:14   they moved multiple layers. It was really impressive and it fixes so many problems that

01:36:21   we used to have like it's terrible to work with multiple files on iOS because you're

01:36:25   stuck in this one way communication with one file. It feels so good. It's kind of rough

01:36:33   right now of course because it's the beta one but I feel I'm very happy like I when I think about it

01:36:39   I got a huge smile on my face and I cannot wait to get back home and put the beta on my iPad because

01:36:44   I want to play with it. Me too and it seems like I played with it on other people's iPads it seems

01:36:49   seems more solid than a beta one tends to usually be things seem to be working okay and also like

01:36:55   you know it was funny with iOS 9 you couldn't really use anything in split view right because

01:37:01   because no apps are ready, but now it's like we have a new split view, but it just works the same as the last one from a size class, in respect to.

01:37:07   So even though you can now move things from side to side, you can have these apps that just float over the top.

01:37:12   It all works with the current apps that you have.

01:37:14   And the fact that you can even do two apps in split view and one floating as a picture-in-picture app,

01:37:22   it sort of looks like you have Windows on iOS, but it goes back to the idea of,

01:37:29   taking old ideas and making them new. Because yes, it is a window, but not necessarily it

01:37:35   means "oh, they're just copying what the Mac had". Because it's got different limitations,

01:37:40   got different interactions, and it's actually much easier than a window. You don't need

01:37:45   to care about closing the window or just resizing the window, it just floats like picture in

01:37:49   picture, which arguably was one of the best iOS 9 features, to be able to take a video

01:37:53   and make it a floating thing. And now you can do that for apps, which I think is a really

01:37:58   good idea. I love the dock. I love the dock.

01:38:04   Especially speaking, it looks really different and I think a lot of our workflows are going

01:38:10   to change because we got two years to get accustomed to, we have the home screen and

01:38:17   we have the primary app on the left and then when you launch something it sort of moves.

01:38:22   And now it's all different because you have these spaces, metaphor, and those two apps

01:38:28   in a space are fixed in position.

01:38:31   You always launch something else, you got a new multitasking UI, and you can put up

01:38:35   to 13, 14 apps in the dock.

01:38:38   Including folders.

01:38:39   Including folders.

01:38:40   And then there's recents.

01:38:41   And then there's Siri.

01:38:42   It's proactive.

01:38:43   Yeah, proactive.

01:38:44   You're like, "Oh, you always look at news in the morning.

01:38:46   Let me put news in the dock for you."

01:38:48   Yeah, I mean, all right.

01:38:50   But it's very different.

01:38:52   Yeah, it's broken in some ways, right? Like it's broken the workflows, but they're just new ones.

01:39:00   They say like, there are things that it doesn't do that the old Split View used to do,

01:39:05   and we're just gonna have to get used to the way that that works, but I think that ultimately

01:39:11   we're gonna be in a much better position than we were previously.

01:39:14   And yeah.

01:39:16   Like I'm very excited about this Federico. I really want to just start digging into it

01:39:23   and playing around. The drag and drop is really, really interesting.

01:39:27   I think professionally speaking yesterday was one of my happiest days in my career.

01:39:34   I was just happy.

01:39:36   I agree.

01:39:37   Like no sarcasm, no, I was just happy.

01:39:42   And one last comment on, because I like to make fun of the Mac people, but there's also

01:39:51   a subset of iOS users who I guess were so convinced that Apple would never ever go back

01:39:58   and take a look at old ideas and reimagine them.

01:40:02   And it sort of feels like what we ended up with is somewhere in the middle.

01:40:09   There's the old and there's the new and we've just got to figure out what the future will

01:40:15   look like.

01:40:17   But I've never been more positive.

01:40:23   I feel very good about the way that Apple is splitting up these two devices.

01:40:27   The Mac has its own ways, it's setting its own interface,

01:40:32   metaphors and styles and workflows for power users,

01:40:37   and the iPad and iOS are trying something new

01:40:40   that is familiar but new, and I feel very good about that.

01:40:44   - How do you feel about the idea,

01:40:46   I think historically when adding things

01:40:49   to the iPad in particular or an iOS in general,

01:40:52   Apple tries to find the balance between complexity

01:40:55   and making the UI really simple and understandable.

01:40:59   And I think there are parts of this

01:41:02   that aren't necessarily intuitive or discoverable.

01:41:05   Do you think it was just time to revisit that balance?

01:41:08   - It feels to me like I actually had a note

01:41:11   about this in my first notes about iOS 11.

01:41:14   It feels to me like the second generation

01:41:18   of multi-touch is for pro users,

01:41:20   because you get all these different gestures

01:41:23   and shortcuts based on multi-touch.

01:41:26   Multi-touch launched as a way for everyone,

01:41:31   average users, to simplify their interactions.

01:41:33   So you get the pinch to zoom,

01:41:36   you get to do the finger scrolling.

01:41:38   But now, it's not new multi-touch,

01:41:41   but it's a second era of multi-touch.

01:41:43   It's all grown up, and it's been used by pro users

01:41:46   to do things like the drag and drop

01:41:48   where you can hold something

01:41:49   and use the other hand to sort of navigate.

01:41:52   It's fun to watch people use drag and drop and not think to do that.

01:41:56   Yeah, because it's always just been, yeah, one like a one hand

01:42:00   holding and then you just open

01:42:02   UI is being manipulated by the hovering of the thing, right?

01:42:05   Even like rearranging apps on the home screen works that way now.

01:42:08   Yeah, you can hold it and you can tap them all up and drag a bunch over.

01:42:11   Like it is it's it's really different in a really good way like.

01:42:20   It's a we're really happy and I just feel like it's everything I want.

01:42:27   I mean, there's no shelf.

01:42:29   If you go back to the concept that we discussed,

01:42:32   there's no holding area for sort of temporary stuff, but that's OK.

01:42:37   I feel like what we needed was a new foundation, was a new story to tell.

01:42:42   Foundation is the good way of putting it.

01:42:43   And we got that.

01:42:44   And now we can hopefully if Apple has a plan for this and I

01:42:48   I believe they do. If they have a plan they can sort of iterate on this over the summer,

01:42:55   launch iOS 11 and build whatever's next. And I just feel like Myke and I are really happy Steven.

01:43:03   We're happy iPad users. No it's great. I think it's the iPad for so long has been held back by

01:43:12   the fact that its operating system started on a phone. And if you look at the bulk of what's

01:43:16   what's an iOS 11, the bulk of it is the iPad.

01:43:19   This stuff isn't on the phone.

01:43:21   And finally they are starting to diverge the two

01:43:26   in a bigger way, and it's what they've needed to do.

01:43:29   It's awesome.

01:43:30   I was super impressed watching it.

01:43:32   And I think even though some of the exact ideas

01:43:37   in your video aren't here, I think the feeling

01:43:40   behind your video has been fulfilled.

01:43:43   I think it's great.

01:43:43   I'm looking forward to having it on my iPad.

01:43:46   I really am.

01:43:47   - We done?

01:43:49   - Yeah, for now.

01:43:50   - I think we got more iPad next week, right?

01:43:52   We need to play with it.

01:43:53   - We need to play with it.

01:43:53   I'm probably gonna put it on my big Pro.

01:43:56   - Yeah, I haven't decided where I'm gonna put it yet.

01:43:57   And also, like, oh, we're buying iPads?

01:44:00   - Yeah, I'm buying the big one, I think.

01:44:02   - I'm gonna get the 10 5 to start.

01:44:04   I think it's very likely that I'll probably end up

01:44:06   getting both eventually.

01:44:08   And I'm hoping, it looks like that they're gonna be

01:44:10   available from Tuesday next week, right?

01:44:13   Like that's when it looks like the first ones

01:44:14   are being delivered.

01:44:15   ordered one, I'm gonna go to a store in London when I get home.

01:44:18   I looked today, if you order today it ships on the 14th, so it's about a week out from

01:44:23   whenever you order maybe.

01:44:24   So I'm gonna just try going to a store next week and see if I can pick one up in person,

01:44:28   because I figure the stores will start to have them next week.

01:44:30   So yeah, I think it's a great looking device.

01:44:34   We didn't talk just very briefly before we wrap up, there are new accessories for it.

01:44:38   So the smart keyboard is a little bit wider, it's gotta be right, I haven't used one, but

01:44:42   it has to be wider because the iPad is a little bit bigger, so hopefully the keys are a little

01:44:45   more comfortable. It comes in 30 language layouts from launch. Yeah from launch.

01:44:50   Unlike last time it took like a year or something for the first international

01:44:53   ones to roll out. It was a long time. And some new cases including one

01:44:59   that's like a slipcover that the pencil can go into. It's like a sleeve.

01:45:04   It looks like a desk pad. Like you would imagine like an old desk pad like

01:45:08   it would sit on a desk like you'd have just this leather thing you put your pad

01:45:11   on and do your writing on. It's like a desk set. And they have one that's just for the

01:45:15   pencil that if you don't want the whole sleeve you can just kind of snap the pencil into.

01:45:19   And there's a Logitech one. There's a new Logitech case. Looks like an advancement of

01:45:22   the create. Yeah, so I looked at that. It is detachable, which looks nice. And it has

01:45:26   a kickstand. It changed the angle, yeah. It has a kickstand. Oh, it has a kickstand. But

01:45:29   I don't know how the kickstand, the kickstand is like the Surface's kickstand. Hmm. So I

01:45:33   don't know how it will feel on the lap. So I'm not sure. It's not like the Razer keyboard

01:45:38   where you can actually put it on the lap because there's like a wide base. Yeah. Or like the

01:45:43   I played with the bridge today with Jason's. It's nice. It's not like that at all. It's got a kickstand on the back of the case.

01:45:49   Yeah, I'm just saying. So yeah, so new accessories and

01:45:52   all the sleeves and stuff I think work with both. They have them for both sizes. So I think all in all

01:45:59   like to sum all this up two hours in

01:46:02   thumbs up.

01:46:03   Big thumbs up from all of us. I think this is my favorite WWDC of all time. Yeah. Yeah.

01:46:08   Yeah, I'd go with that. Because the things I'm not happy about I'm not angry about.

01:46:12   Yeah, you're not enthusiastic about the home pod

01:46:14   It's good for some people. I just don't want it hasn't enraged you

01:46:18   I'm not like oh you did an idiotic thing like I just think that they didn't make the right call

01:46:22   But I'm just gonna keep my echo. Yeah, I

01:46:24   Feel like I want to be optimistic again, and I feel like I can be yeah like the last year's just really sucked

01:46:33   I feel like I can breathe. Yeah, it's like it's just not been good. It was started with last year like iOS 10

01:46:38   I think we're all a little bit under wound especially if you're an iPad user, right?

01:46:41   We were given so much promise with nine got nothing but ten. I feel like Mac users are happy now. They're getting products

01:46:48   iPad users are happy again. We're getting products. We're likely to get an incredible phone in September

01:46:54   Like I'm really excited about this next year up to iOS 12. Yeah

01:46:59   So I think that's it. You want to catch the show notes for this week relay.fm/connected/145

01:47:08   Thanks again to hover max stadium and igloo for supporting the show when I find us online

01:47:13   Stevens at 512 pixels net he's at is m/h

01:47:16   Federico's at max stories dot net is at for teaching v.i.t.i. CCI I am at I Myke I am y ke

01:47:22   We'll be right next time we won't be together though, so it probably won't be as funny

01:47:27   I don't know we'll see until then say goodbye guys. Sorry with it you adios