142: A Trip to Barcelona


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:06   From VLA FM, this is Connected, episode 142. Today's show is brought to you by Squarespace

00:00:13   and PDF Pen 9 from SMILE. My name is Myke Early. I am joined by Mr. Stephen Hackett. Hello,

00:00:18   Stephen Hackett. Hello, Michael Hurley. And the man of the hour, Mr. Federico Vittucci. Ciao Federico.

00:00:24   Ciao a tutti. Hello. Hi.

00:00:27   Wow, that was a lot. That was a lot in that.

00:00:29   It was really not a lot. How are you?

00:00:31   I'm very well. How are you?

00:00:34   A little tired, but also happy that it's over again.

00:00:39   So Federico published a really big article today and video,

00:00:43   and we're going to talk about that a little bit later on in the show.

00:00:46   But before we do, Steven requires that we discuss follow up

00:00:50   as part of his official contract that he signed.

00:00:54   I wrote it and then I signed it and it's just me.

00:00:57   - And crayon. - Crayon, come on.

00:00:59   Come on, man.

00:01:00   So we've spoken a lot about Amazon's new echoes,

00:01:04   the look, which has a camera and is all about fashion,

00:01:07   and then the echo show, which is an echo with a screen,

00:01:12   and so it can display you information,

00:01:13   it's a touchscreen, you can interact with it.

00:01:15   That ships, as we've discussed, in like six weeks or so,

00:01:17   the very end of June,

00:01:19   but there's been a lot of conversation around

00:01:21   sort of thing they slipped into all of this and it's in existing echoes as well

00:01:26   in the app. Amazon kind of launched a messaging platform so it works a couple

00:01:31   of different ways depending on what devices you have. So I have an echo dot

00:01:35   for instance here on my desk just right there a couple feet away and I can send

00:01:40   voice messages and receive voice messages through it or through the

00:01:45   application and if for instance Federico sends me one the echo will blink the

00:01:50   ring around it turns green. I didn't know what that meant and so I just asked the

00:01:54   Echo blank "why are you green?" and it told me. It was just kind of amazing moment

00:01:59   like oh it really understood what I meant but there's been a lot of concern

00:02:04   about privacy and and like there's some weirdness here. There's an article over

00:02:10   on the verge outlining some of this. More or less when you open the the new Echo

00:02:17   app on your iPhone which has been redesigned it's way nicer now and you

00:02:21   have to upload all your contacts and it looks those contacts up it says these

00:02:26   people have echoes you can talk to these people obviously that's not super great

00:02:29   but a lot of people are doing it I did it like I give him my contact sorry if

00:02:35   you're my contact list sorry sorry contacts but I want to see what this

00:02:39   what this was like and it will talk about it but there's no way to block

00:02:42   communication at this point that you don't want so if someone is sending you

00:02:47   messages and you don't want to hear from them or they're being inappropriate or

00:02:51   they're harassing you there's no way to block those people as long as somebody

00:02:55   has your phone number and this Echo mobile app then they can reach you.

00:03:01   It's interesting that I don't see it in my application like I can't see anything

00:03:05   that talks about messages. I think it's US only. Feels like it must be US only

00:03:10   there you go. Yeah so the so I guess the the story here is I mean obviously there

00:03:16   There are issues with this and there should be a way to block people.

00:03:21   Some people have said it's a problem that anyone with your phone number can message

00:03:25   you through this thing.

00:03:26   And like, I don't see a huge problem with that because if someone has your contact information,

00:03:30   they can call your phone or send you an iMessage or send you an email.

00:03:33   Yes, it's weird that the echoes in your kitchen is going to light up green and make a noise.

00:03:38   That's a little bit different, but I do think they definitely need some mechanism to say,

00:03:42   this person, I do not want this person to be able to contact me via the Echo.

00:03:48   Yeah, I think that's the problem really. It's not about anyone can contact you

00:03:52   because, you know, anyone can call me if they have my phone number and anyone can

00:03:57   text me, anyone can come to my house and ring the doorbell. I don't think that's a

00:04:01   problem. The problem is the kind of action that you can take to prevent that

00:04:04   from happening over and over. So if someone comes to my house and rings my

00:04:09   but every five minutes I'm gonna go downstairs and take care of that. And if anyone starts calling me

00:04:14   on my iPhone I'm just gonna block the number. Here on the in the Electa app there's no way to block

00:04:20   anyone and I think that's a problem because you know with these communication systems where there's

00:04:26   no two-way authentication you know you have my phone number you can call me and this is the same

00:04:31   concept. You have my phone number, you can ring my echo speaker, but there's no blocking UI,

00:04:39   there's no blocking feature, and I think Amazon needs to add that and needs to add settings to

00:04:45   prevent people from being called all the time. I think it makes sense and I'm not sure how you can

00:04:50   ship a communication product today and not think of the blocking system, just because anyone

00:04:58   gonna ask them today and it just doesn't make any sense to me. I'm so surprised

00:05:03   that Amazon had this kind of oversight. So two things. One, they said that they're

00:05:08   gonna add it right after this story kind of caught a bit of heat. They said, "We're sorry

00:05:12   we're working on it." The other thing, I've been thinking a lot about this.

00:05:15   My initial point was, my initial feeling was definitely the same as you guys.

00:05:19   It's like, you know, this is just the way things are now. People can just contact

00:05:23   you. If you give someone your contact information, right, they can

00:05:28   contact you however. I tell you the thing that I've been thinking about that's been

00:05:34   playing on my mind a little bit. When everybody bought the Amazon Echo, they didn't think

00:05:42   it would ever do this. There was never an idea that this was going to be a device that

00:05:47   people could start calling you on. I don't think anybody considered that as an option

00:05:52   and obviously Amazon didn't say it. So you bought this device and put it into your home.

00:05:56   you are a type of person who just doesn't want this, well this is really frustrating

00:06:01   because now this device has been updated without your desire and now people can start calling

00:06:06   you on it.

00:06:07   That is true.

00:06:08   That is, I think that's the problem where it's like, I was thinking like, well look,

00:06:13   every service now, like you know, people can contact you, but like if you think about how

00:06:17   you do this, you download the applications, right, or whatever, or you have a phone and

00:06:22   And you know that your phone is a communications device, which is why you bought it, and any

00:06:26   communication apps you put on it will allow for people to communicate with you.

00:06:30   But when we brought these canisters, these echoes, and put them in our homes, they were

00:06:35   purely "I'm going to communicate with you and you'll talk to Amazon."

00:06:39   No one was ever talking back to me, but now people can start calling me.

00:06:43   And it's not just on the Echo Show, right?

00:06:45   Which is like, okay, if this new product has the calling in it, then you know.

00:06:49   But everybody's echoes were updated silently, right?

00:06:53   And now people can start calling you.

00:06:55   That's the thing that I find is different.

00:06:58   Because it's kind of like Trojan horse this messaging system into the product.

00:07:06   Which I think is one of the difference makers of it.

00:07:08   Yeah, that's a good point.

00:07:11   That makes sense.

00:07:12   Yeah.

00:07:13   Especially, you know, you buy a device with some kind of expectation and then, you know,

00:07:18   Echo is the type of hardware that updates itself, you cannot even decide "oh I don't

00:07:23   want this update". Like I know people for example who the iOS interface changes and

00:07:27   people do not update because they don't want the changes, your changes are pushed upon

00:07:32   you.

00:07:33   I would like it if you could just say like turn it off, I don't want people messaging

00:07:36   me. Just a broad switch to just turn it off. Because you shouldn't necessarily force this

00:07:42   on people right? Like it's not, I don't think Amazon's looking to change the world with

00:07:46   this thing, they basically were trying to add a feature to their new camera device.

00:07:50   And then they just said, well, we can just do this everywhere.

00:07:53   On the drop-in, by the way, Amazon published a really good demo video.

00:07:57   And I think this one was significantly better than the original Echo video, where they were

00:08:04   kind of showing off what the device could do.

00:08:06   And they showed some of the drop-in feature, right?

00:08:08   I had problems with that drop-in feature last week.

00:08:11   And it looks like that when you go to drop in on someone, they see like a blurred, a

00:08:17   really blurred view. So they can't just see you automatically and you get the ability

00:08:22   to stop it from happening. Like you can say like, no, like don't, don't let the person

00:08:28   drop in.

00:08:29   Go away.

00:08:30   Yeah. And so I think, okay, that looks much better than, than the, like the original way

00:08:34   that I thought it was going to be.

00:08:36   Like a face appears.

00:08:38   - Yeah, they could just like, you're doing whatever

00:08:41   you're doing and then your grandma's just like

00:08:43   looking at you.

00:08:44   - Yeah, it's like the Harry Potter scene

00:08:47   when Sirius Black appears in the fireplace.

00:08:49   - Exactly, it is just like that.

00:08:52   Funnily enough, that was what I thought of

00:08:53   when I first saw it.

00:08:54   So yeah, I think that it's good.

00:08:58   And we should watch a video.

00:08:58   I haven't seen a video, it's like a five minute video.

00:09:00   And I think Amazon does a really good story telling here.

00:09:04   Like they really have a good way of showing

00:09:07   how the product can be used and they have something

00:09:10   that I like more in this video than the previous video,

00:09:12   a bunch of different families and people

00:09:14   so it can show different use cases.

00:09:16   And it's pretty funny too, so it's worth watching.

00:09:18   But it's good just to get a little bit more context

00:09:20   around what drop-in's all about.

00:09:22   - Yeah, it's just a weird addition, I think.

00:09:25   The more I think about it,

00:09:26   to have it in the app and everywhere.

00:09:29   And I think a part of that too, we haven't really mentioned,

00:09:31   is that the Echo, at least for those of us

00:09:33   who live with other humans,

00:09:35   is not necessarily like a personal device.

00:09:37   Like I ask it something, my kids ask something,

00:09:40   my wife wants it to start a song.

00:09:42   We're all using it for different things

00:09:44   and it's not, yes it's tied to certain things of mine,

00:09:49   but my kids don't know that they can add things

00:09:51   to my to-do list from it.

00:09:52   Just pray for me if that ever happens.

00:09:56   But it's a communal device and messaging,

00:10:01   by default, is a very private thing.

00:10:03   And so I, even though, you know, my nerd friends who have echoes who we've been playing with

00:10:08   it this week, I know I trust them, they're not going to send something terrible to me

00:10:12   over the echo messaging app.

00:10:14   But if they did, I've got a house full of children.

00:10:16   And like, you know, that there's that aspect of it too, that you're right, Myke, that it's

00:10:20   sort of Trojan horse in there.

00:10:22   But it's also weird because it's it takes something personal communication and puts

00:10:25   it you know, potentially in a non personal environment.

00:10:29   I think that's a little weird too.

00:10:31   So we should move on.

00:10:33   We have a link in the show notes to the Relay.fm blog.

00:10:37   We have launched two new shows this week.

00:10:41   The first is called Roboism.

00:10:43   It is by Alex Cox.

00:10:45   You may know Alex from things like Cards against Humanity or Dubai Friday.

00:10:49   Podcast is really great.

00:10:51   And her co-host Savannah Milian.

00:10:52   They talk about robots, artificial intelligence, machine learning, and how all that stuff affects

00:10:58   our culture.

00:10:59   I think for me at least I think about sort of the stuff is like kind of out there in

00:11:03   the future but the reality is this stuff is now here in the present and Alex and Savannah

00:11:07   talk about that.

00:11:08   It's a fortnightly show.

00:11:10   It will be a lot of fun.

00:11:12   Episode one is out now.

00:11:14   We also launched originality so Aline Sims who used to host less than or equal on the

00:11:19   network she's back with a new show with Kay Tempest Bradford.

00:11:23   Tempest is an author and they together are interviewing creatives about like the

00:11:29   where's, how's and why's of creative genius like where ideas come from and how you

00:11:33   work on these ideas into like a finished work and it's a really fun format.

00:11:38   They're interviewing people and then they like jump in and talk about the

00:11:41   interview and go back to it. Really nicely edited. They're doing a really

00:11:44   nice job in the production. If you enjoyed Myke's old interview show which

00:11:49   had like six names over the years. I don't know why you have to be that way.

00:11:54   If you like that sort of programming, I think you would enjoy originality. It's also Fortnitely,

00:11:58   so neither of those are weekly. You've got plenty of time to get them in your schedule.

00:12:01   And yeah, go check them out. And while we're on the news front, continuing

00:12:06   the year of live that we've spoken about, there's going to be a London meetup, a London-based

00:12:12   meetup for two-thirds of the Connected podcast on Friday, June the 2nd. It's going to be

00:12:18   the first link in the show notes this week will be to get tickets if you want to go get

00:12:22   tickets. Me and Federico are going to be in town back at the Big Chill House on Friday

00:12:28   June 2nd from 7 to 10pm. The tickets are free so you can go and sign up and come along and

00:12:35   say hi to us as we get prepared to head off to San Jose the next day.

00:12:40   Yeah, last year was awesome. It was. It was. It was a lot of fun.

00:12:45   And you know, it was actually I think my first time meeting any kind of podcast listener

00:12:52   and it just made it so real and everyone was so happy and so kind.

00:12:57   It was one of the highlights of my entire trip to WWDC so I cannot wait to do it again

00:13:02   and I'm very happy that we're doing it again.

00:13:03   So if you want to be a highlight of Federico's trip, come get a ticket and hang out with

00:13:07   us in London.

00:13:09   We have limited availability and they're going to go quick so if you're listening to this

00:13:13   episode and you want to come click that link right now mm-hmm I will not be

00:13:18   there no that day is actually my 10 year wedding anniversary so we're

00:13:22   congratulations all around then it's yeah so you guys have your meetup can we

00:13:26   buy a ticket to that also even now okay moving on

00:13:35   - Are you buying listeners along to your dinner or anything?

00:13:38   Or no?

00:13:38   - Yeah.

00:13:39   - No, real good.

00:13:40   - Yeah, yeah.

00:13:41   We'll be at this bed and breakfast.

00:13:44   Please don't come.

00:13:44   (laughing)

00:13:46   - Yeah, we'll give you the link so you can stay away.

00:13:49   - Yeah.

00:13:50   So we have sort of a mini topic before we get in,

00:13:56   and this has been floating in our document for a while,

00:13:58   so my apologies to listener Jessica.

00:14:01   She wrote this in weeks ago,

00:14:02   but we're finally getting to it,

00:14:03   And I thought it'd be an interesting conversation

00:14:05   in light of what we're gonna talk about today with iOS 11.

00:14:08   And so Jessica writes,

00:14:10   "What's going on with the iPod Touch?

00:14:11   "We have two in our household for the kids

00:14:14   "and they are aging."

00:14:15   I assume she means the iPod's Touch are aging

00:14:18   and not the kids, maybe both.

00:14:19   - Both, yeah.

00:14:21   - But we're not going to replace them,

00:14:22   again, hopefully talking about the iPod Touch,

00:14:24   but we're not going to replace them

00:14:25   with something last updated in 2015.

00:14:27   "It's got an AA chip, but is that good enough these days?

00:14:30   "Should we get that new cheap iPad and move on from this?

00:14:33   what's the deal Apple? So I agree with Jessica that this is weird. You know there's a $329

00:14:40   iPad. The iPod touch is older. It got that update but it's still like the smaller screen

00:14:48   size and cameras aren't as good and it just really seems like it's fallen from grace over

00:14:54   the years. What do you guys think?

00:15:00   I think that if you're interested in having this kind of device today, that you're better

00:15:06   placed with an iPad of some kind, I really don't think that the iPod touch is long for

00:15:11   this world, honestly.

00:15:12   I can't see it.

00:15:13   Yeah.

00:15:14   I mean, they are cheaper.

00:15:15   They can start at $199 for the 16 gig.

00:15:19   But I agree with you.

00:15:21   You know, when they first announced it, the world was very different, right?

00:15:25   The iPhone was basically only on AT&T and only in the United States.

00:15:29   that's not the case anymore. The iPhone is everywhere. The iPad didn't exist. It

00:15:33   exists now. And I think just those devices have really squeezed the iPod

00:15:37   Touch sort of out of the line almost. It's still around but it feels

00:15:42   like it's a legacy product and you know the days are gone where the iPod Touch

00:15:47   was as good as the newest iPhone all the time. I mean I'm looking at Mac Tracker

00:15:50   and they released an iPod Touch like every September for several years and

00:15:56   and then it just slowly, you know,

00:15:58   those gaps got wider and wider

00:15:59   and now it's been coming up on two years.

00:16:02   I think the moral of the story is probably don't buy one.

00:16:06   That's my thought.

00:16:07   That's what I would say.

00:16:08   - Yeah, I wouldn't buy an Apple Touch.

00:16:09   I mean, just get an iPad Mini, I guess.

00:16:13   What's the difference in price again?

00:16:15   - Yeah, the iPad Mini is like $399 or $499, I'm looking.

00:16:20   - If it's $399, that's, you know, $70 difference.

00:16:24   I mean, you get, you know, games would be bigger and the screen would be slightly bigger.

00:16:31   I mean not slightly but still not as huge as an iPad Pro.

00:16:37   I mean I wouldn't get an iPod Touch.

00:16:40   I would just reuse iPad Minis and maybe iPad Airs if you can maybe get a refurbished model

00:16:48   of those.

00:16:49   That's a good point.

00:16:50   Yeah.

00:16:51   had many I remember now they only sell one model it's the 128 gig for $399 and

00:16:56   so if you you know from the base iPod touch to the mini is a big jump but that

00:17:01   cheap iPad and like you said refurbished iPads are in there in the middle

00:17:05   somewhere yeah I think that's what you should probably do yes I think that's I

00:17:08   think that's our collective advice is say goodbye to the iPod touch yeah I

00:17:12   mean who knows right what they might end up doing with it but I'm just saying I

00:17:18   would be really surprised if it was anything other than silently going away.

00:17:22   Yeah. I mean you know another thing would be if you really like that size I'm

00:17:30   sure that you could probably get relatively cheap iPhones right like 5c's

00:17:35   and 5s's and stuff like that which might stick around for a little bit longer and

00:17:40   just you know just don't put SIM cards in them and you'll probably be okay.

00:17:43   Yeah, it's always a good option too. Well, we don't know, maybe listener Jessica, she's

00:17:49   a billionaire and she wants to buy iPhone 7s to the kids. That's true, you could do

00:17:53   that too. That could be, that could be. That is the billionaire's option. If you're a little

00:17:58   more price conscious, I would say go for a refurbished iPad and, you know, whether it's

00:18:04   a mini or an Air, it's still better than the 8, AA chip and the iPod touch. Do you mean

00:18:10   more price conscious than a billionaire.

00:18:12   Like I think they were the two options you were posing.

00:18:15   Either a billionaire or you're more price conscious.

00:18:17   - She could be a millionaire.

00:18:18   I mean, in my mind, you're either price conscious

00:18:21   or you're a billionaire, you know?

00:18:23   - No middle class.

00:18:26   - That's a way of looking at it.

00:18:27   - What's the middle class anyway?

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00:20:09   Alright, so Mr. Federico Vittucci, you have gone ahead and done it again and created an

00:20:17   iOS concept video.

00:20:19   Now this is something you did for the first time last year, right?

00:20:22   Yes, the concept video and the mockups were the change from last year with iOS 10.

00:20:30   For context, I've been doing my annual iOS wishlist since the days of iOS 6, so when

00:20:36   when iOS 5 was the current OS, I published my first article in this series called iOS

00:20:42   6 Wishes that was 2012 and I've been doing this since for every iOS version. Last year

00:20:48   with iOS 10, in addition to my wishlist, we also did a concept video to visualize the

00:20:56   wishes themselves and to sort of give people a better idea of what I had in mind. And this

00:21:01   we've done it again. There's a new concept video. We're talking about iOS 11 of course,

00:21:07   but the twist is because I feel that the iPad is more behind than the iPhone in terms of

00:21:14   attention and in terms of power, you know, power user features. This year my iOS 11 wishes

00:21:20   and concept video are all about the iPad and the future of the iPad.

00:21:24   And I guess at this point right now we're all pretty confident that and hoping but also

00:21:31   a little bit confident that this will be Apple's tact as well, right? That the iPad's going

00:21:35   to get some serious love at WWDC.

00:21:37   I think so. And I know, you know, it's almost like multiple people seem to know this and

00:21:44   to agree upon this, that iPad features were supposed to come out earlier than the situation

00:21:50   that we're in right now, which is basically it's two years since iOS 9 and almost, you

00:21:55   know, over a year and a half after the original iPad Pro. And it wasn't supposed to be this

00:21:59   long but whatever happened now we're at the stage where WWDC is upon us and

00:22:04   maybe there's going to be a visual refresh of iOS you know in general on

00:22:08   the iPhone and the iPad but really Apple is gonna have some iPad love to share at WWDC.

00:22:14   There was something that you said in your article that I really liked you

00:22:18   said iOS for iPhone is I believe at a point of sufficient maturity the iPad

00:22:23   that now bears the proverbial low hanging fruit of iOS?

00:22:28   Yeah, I mean, I find that hard to disagree.

00:22:32   If you consider the iPhone and iPad advancing simultaneously, you could say that the iPhone

00:22:38   is at least a couple of years ahead of the iPad.

00:22:43   If you look back at iOS 9, there was the point when Apple stopped, I don't want to say caring

00:22:48   about the iPad, but making features and designs and, you know, thinking about iPad users as

00:22:58   a different type of users than the iPhone average customer.

00:23:03   And over the past two years, the iPhone has advanced with iOS 10, we got some amazing

00:23:08   features for the iPhone and, you know, we got the iMessage, for example, was clearly

00:23:13   optimized for the iPhone, the stickers.

00:23:15   Initially they didn't even work on the iPad in SplitView.

00:23:18   Instead, we didn't get any iPad only feature, because I think the main difference here to

00:23:25   bring up is it doesn't matter if Apple releases the same option on both platforms, and they're

00:23:31   going to say, "Well, this amazing iPhone feature also works on the iPad."

00:23:36   Because I think iPad users need and deserve some iPad only and iPad first functionality

00:23:43   that truly takes advantage of the bigger screen and the different type of device.

00:23:47   Otherwise, every feature, every design is just going to be an adaptation from the iPhone.

00:23:53   And so I think there's so much more potential to change things on the iPad.

00:23:59   And there's so much, and this is a point that I make in the story, there's so much missing

00:24:04   functionality really from the iPad.

00:24:06   The iPhone you could argue, well, Apple is going to do something new, maybe a new design,

00:24:11   some new system apps, but you cannot really say, "Well, this is absolutely missing from

00:24:16   the iPhone."

00:24:18   And I feel like the same is not true for the iPad.

00:24:20   There's stuff that is clearly missing from the iPad right now.

00:24:25   So let me play devil's advocate for just a second.

00:24:28   I agree with you.

00:24:29   I think the iPhone point in particular is very well said, and I think it would benefit

00:24:35   Apple to treat the iPhone and iPad more independently of each other.

00:24:40   maybe not as far as splitting the OS but like really focusing on them as what

00:24:45   they are. But as the resident Mac user on the show before I lost Myke I just I

00:24:52   can't help but think that that iPad users are being a little bit finicky

00:24:58   with some of the stuff that yeah it's been two years but this stuff takes time

00:25:05   and I was just thinking back over the course of OS X's life and you know iOS

00:25:12   is now 10 years old and it is not as far along as Mac OS X was but Mac OS X had

00:25:19   a head start right and and I think that someone looking at the two of you saying

00:25:25   well this is ridiculous you guys are spoiled like quit whining it's only been

00:25:29   two years the Mac's not getting this sort of attention anymore I don't think

00:25:34   that's fair of those people and and they're my people they're my people

00:25:38   saying it but I think it's unfair because the Mac got a head start right

00:25:43   the Mac was built upon next step and stuff from the classic Mac OS and so you

00:25:49   have things like copy and paste out of the box and and I was sad to add that it

00:25:54   took them two years and they finally did it in iOS 3 but I just think as we move

00:25:59   forward if you are a Mac user listening to this and you think that Federico and

00:26:03   micro being silly for complaining that it's been two years since I've gotten an

00:26:06   update then I don't I just don't think that's fair because iOS is still a young

00:26:13   OS the Mac is much more mature and this is a something micro in the show notes

00:26:19   so I'm gonna steal it that it would be difficult for us to sit down and make a

00:26:23   list of needed features and improvements like this for Mac OS I mean I've been

00:26:28   working on like a Mac OS 10.13 wish list it'd be honest with you guys like it's

00:26:33   it's pretty short. Like the Mac is mature and stable and most of the stuff I want on

00:26:39   that list is actually like dialing back some of the new stuff or like tweaking stuff they've

00:26:43   added but the core is good. Whereas iOS is younger and has more room to grow because

00:26:48   of it. So I just kind of wanted to clear the deck if people are thinking that because I

00:26:52   think it's a little unfair. I think it's a valid point. I just disagree with the premise

00:26:59   is that it's only been two years,

00:27:00   especially from a company that tries to sell the iPad

00:27:03   as the future, and then you stop for two years.

00:27:07   That's a very long time.

00:27:08   If you truly believe that something

00:27:10   is the future of computing,

00:27:11   and it's not like we're talking about some, you know,

00:27:14   low profile startup with some small team working on this.

00:27:19   We're talking about Apple and the CEO going out and saying,

00:27:22   well, we believe this is the future

00:27:23   of computing for everyone.

00:27:25   And I just struggled to reconcile those statements

00:27:29   with two years of effectively pause on the iPad software.

00:27:33   And I know that this stuff takes time.

00:27:35   So it's not the end of the world.

00:27:38   It's not like Apple didn't ship features for the iPad

00:27:40   and now we're all upset and we're gonna switch to Linux.

00:27:43   That is not the case, but it's also,

00:27:45   it needs to be said that it's been two years

00:27:48   and it is time for something new.

00:27:50   And I know that Mac users have been waiting for longer

00:27:55   But it's also much more... I think it's been around for a long time and, like you said,

00:28:00   it's hard to come up with new ideas and wishes of things that are missing from the Mac because

00:28:05   it's so mature at this point.

00:28:07   Yeah, I mean, something as simple as... well, not as simple, but something as sort of basic

00:28:12   as window management, and we're getting ready to get into this with some of the Split View

00:28:17   stuff, but if you look at the Mac, Apple introduced Spaces and Exposé years ago.

00:28:25   I think Exposé was like 10.3 or 10.4 and the Spaces was in Leopard and now they sort

00:28:30   of like smashed all that into Mission Control and they redid Mission Control and they need

00:28:34   to redo it again because it's still not really good.

00:28:37   But they're sort of like taking the pieces they already have and rearranging them where

00:28:41   iOS, they need to bring some of that stuff to it in the first place, right?

00:28:45   The split view was a good first step,

00:28:46   but they need to move beyond that now.

00:28:49   So I just think it's not an apples to apples comparison

00:28:52   between the two operating systems.

00:28:55   - And also, all of the stuff that we're gonna talk about,

00:28:57   all of the stuff that Federico has written about,

00:29:00   is just new ways, new ideas of doing things

00:29:03   that already exist on desktop platforms.

00:29:06   Reimagining some concepts for how they would work

00:29:09   on a touch interface to get work done.

00:29:13   These aren't like brand new pie in the sky things for the most part.

00:29:18   It's like finding ways to bring needed features to iOS that currently exist in MacOS and in Windows.

00:29:26   So it's not, you know, we're like give us feature parity.

00:29:31   It's what we want. Or concepts, right? Like the concepts.

00:29:34   So like drag and drop, which is the first one we're going to talk about.

00:29:37   Like there isn't a way to drag and drop something from thing to thing in iOS.

00:29:42   from app to app, from app to file system,

00:29:45   or anything like this, this doesn't exist.

00:29:47   And boy would it be nice.

00:29:49   So let's talk about it.

00:29:50   Federico, you conceive of an idea of drag and drop.

00:29:54   So kind of from your perspective,

00:29:56   what do you think that drag and drop looks like on iOS?

00:30:00   - This is the feature that we also showcased last year

00:30:04   in the iOS 10 concept video.

00:30:05   And this year we had time to refine the idea

00:30:09   and to maybe consider all of the implications.

00:30:11   So the basic idea is it should be super simple and it should be intuitive for users.

00:30:19   Imagine Split View for example, you have two apps open at the same time and you want to

00:30:23   get some text or maybe an image from the app on the left to the app on the right.

00:30:29   Right now there's really no easy way or intuitive way to do that on iOS 10.

00:30:33   You either have to copy the image to the clipboard and then paste in the other app.

00:30:38   it works, other times it doesn't work, or you need to use an extension. So you need

00:30:43   to go through a bunch of different places and sort of rely on workarounds to move data.

00:30:50   With drag and drop, I feel like the obvious solution would be you just hold down on the

00:30:54   text that you want to move or the image that you want to bring into the other app, and

00:30:59   you just move it. You just drag it there. You grab it, you move it, and you drop it.

00:31:03   And I feel like Apple nailed this idea decades ago on the Mac and it's been around since

00:31:10   forever.

00:31:11   I think actually Jeff Raskin invented the click and drag behavior on the original Macintosh.

00:31:18   And it's a proven, it's a solid idea that I feel a lot of people say, "Well, drag and

00:31:23   drop, it's a desktop feature, it's made for the mouse, it doesn't make sense on a mobile

00:31:27   touchscreen."

00:31:28   And I think the argument doesn't make any sense because if you think about it, on desktop

00:31:33   you're using an abstraction, a metaphor of your hand, which is the trackpad and the mouse cursor on the screen,

00:31:40   to select objects and move them around.

00:31:43   And now you ask, you could actually hold the objects on the screen and swipe physically with your finger

00:31:48   to move data around. And so that's the simplest implementation.

00:31:52   But then in the concept and in the article I explained, you know, maybe you don't want to drop an item into an app right away,

00:32:02   maybe you want to save it for later, or maybe you don't know the app that you want to drop it in,

00:32:07   so you want to open the multitasking switcher and select an app icon while you are already holding an item.

00:32:13   And of course there are multiple types of items that you could drag, you know, text and images are obvious,

00:32:18   but what about the PDF document? What about a Safari web page? Or what if you want to drag and drop a location from maps?

00:32:25   So there's this whole system that will require a framework, like a system-wide framework and an API from Apple.

00:32:32   it's a big effort to support multiple content types and to tell developers,

00:32:38   "Here's an API, here's how your app can support these two methods." Allowing the

00:32:45   users to hold down and select a piece of content and being able for your app to

00:32:51   receive content that is dropped by the user. There are multiple implications and

00:32:57   it's super difficult if you think about the technical aspects. I went

00:33:00   back and I actually tried to read the document of, I think it was called

00:33:05   Drag Manager on System 7. It's a PDF that is still available on apple.com for some

00:33:09   reason. And to give you the idea that this is stuff that Apple has been

00:33:14   thinking about for a long time. Apple, back in the System 7 days, they referred

00:33:19   to item flavors. So for example, if you have an item that is text, text can have

00:33:24   multiple flavors. It can be plain text or it can be rich text. If it's rich text,

00:33:29   Maybe it's got some formatting, so you got to account for that.

00:33:32   And there are all these different variables

00:33:34   that if you enable drag and drop,

00:33:36   so if you enable this direct communication between two apps,

00:33:40   you got to have effectively a language to let those apps

00:33:45   understand each other.

00:33:46   So hopefully there will be an API

00:33:49   and there will be a modernized implementation of this stuff

00:33:53   that Apple has been doing for over 20 years, basically.

00:33:55   I want to come back to the developer point in a second,

00:33:58   but there's something that I want to drill down on,

00:33:59   which I think is really interesting,

00:34:01   which is the idea of multi-touch, right?

00:34:02   And you've kind of, you've glossed on it a couple of times.

00:34:07   It's the idea of like, if you imagine two apps in split view

00:34:09   and you have notes on one side

00:34:11   and you have a webpage on the other

00:34:12   and you want to drag an image from a webpage,

00:34:16   if you were doing this, you know,

00:34:17   and you could like, you could pick it up

00:34:20   and you could drag it, you could hold it down the bottom

00:34:22   and it starts to scroll, right?

00:34:24   But what you would be able to do on iOS

00:34:26   is you could just, you could scroll the other application

00:34:30   with your other hand, right?

00:34:32   Like the idea of being able to like pinch and zoom

00:34:34   and move around whilst you're holding a piece of content,

00:34:37   continuing to manipulate the screen.

00:34:39   You could go to the home screen,

00:34:41   you're still holding it with your other hand.

00:34:42   You could pick another app, you can drop it in.

00:34:44   Like the idea of having effectively multiple cursors

00:34:48   on screen is really nice, right?

00:34:51   And I'm sure you'd be able to do like what you can do

00:34:52   on macOS, let's say you could pick up a file,

00:34:56   hold it, wait for the file to open, drop it in, right? That kind of thing.

00:34:59   But on iOS,

00:35:01   you could actually be manipulating all of that stuff manually and quicker

00:35:04   because you're able to tap around. And I think that that is,

00:35:07   that is a very compelling idea for me. Um, I, one thing that I really,

00:35:12   really hope for and that I get concerned about when I think about this is I

00:35:15   really, really,

00:35:16   really want there to be the ability to drag and drop files and not just content.

00:35:21   Right? Like files is a, is a really important one.

00:35:25   and I do foresee a world in which drag and drop is launched without that

00:35:31   and it's just content to start, like I can see that

00:35:34   but I really hope that they do the whole shebang

00:35:37   I want to come back to the developers though

00:35:39   this is the risk for me, this is the real risk point about

00:35:43   if they're going to do this right, there needs to be APIs

00:35:47   and as you say, would require explicit adoption

00:35:50   application developers would need to write the stuff to make this happen

00:35:53   this happen so content can be shared from app to app.

00:35:57   You know, and like with document pickers,

00:35:59   applications can say what types of files they can accept

00:36:02   and stuff like that.

00:36:04   If you look at Split View, and how long it took companies

00:36:08   to adopt Split View, if at all, with their iPad apps,

00:36:12   this is where I start to worry about the adoption rates

00:36:15   for these types of features.

00:36:17   - Well, the good news maybe is that

00:36:22   while Split View was a massive problem for some companies such as Google that relied on

00:36:28   custom interface frameworks and had to redraw their entire UIs and to make them work and support

00:36:38   the size classes on iPad. Whereas I think if Apple wants to do a drag and drop API they should take

00:36:46   most of the work away from the developers. So Apple should have their own system, their own language

00:36:52   that can understand content types. So there needs to be a system that the developer doesn't have to

00:37:00   build it. The developer needs to be able to say "look, this is some text, there you go, do whatever

00:37:05   you want with it" or "this is a text field in my app, it supports rich text and plain text, now I'm

00:37:12   I'm just gonna wait for some text to be dropped and then I'm gonna take care of that.

00:37:16   But the system that lets two apps communicate, that needs to be provided by Apple.

00:37:22   And so in theory, at least in my mind, I'm not a developer and I'm just trying to make reasonable assumptions as to how this could work.

00:37:34   But I imagine there should be a layer in the middle that is made by Apple that says,

00:37:40   "Well, I'm looking at an image right now, and it's a photo that comes from Safari, it's a JPEG, it's a two megabyte object,

00:37:48   and on this other end there's a text editor, and the user is about to drop an image into a text editor. What do I do?"

00:37:56   the system, the API provided by Apple and iOS should say, well, you know, an image cannot be plain text.

00:38:04   So I'm just going to assume that maybe the user wants to insert the link to the image from the web,

00:38:10   or maybe if the image is not, you know, a photo from a web page, but what if it's a photo from an email client,

00:38:16   it doesn't have a link, well, let's just use the file name of the image in plain text.

00:38:21   So this abstraction, this communication, this translation occurring between two apps, that

00:38:26   must be done by Apple and that shouldn't be work that the developers need to account for.

00:38:32   But still, there should be an API for developers to integrate with this and that is where your

00:38:38   concern might come in.

00:38:40   How long is it going to take Google to allow users to select some text in Google Docs and

00:38:45   drop it into Apple Mail?

00:38:49   Or is Microsoft gonna take two months

00:38:52   to enable dropping of images and videos into OneNote?

00:38:56   That I'm afraid I cannot answer for you.

00:39:00   - I think the idea of having a piece of content

00:39:03   and then manipulating the OS underneath it

00:39:06   is really interesting.

00:39:07   On the Mac, you can click down and have a text document

00:39:12   and then, I'm looking at my keyboard,

00:39:15   You can hit F3 to go into Mission Control and then drag that piece of content on top

00:39:19   of any open app and if it can open it then it opens it and if it can't then it can't

00:39:27   but this is an area where they can break from the phone.

00:39:31   The phone is one app at a time and most of the time one handed but the iPad is not that

00:39:37   way.

00:39:38   You can have it on your desk or you can have it in the keyboard case and you can use both

00:39:42   hands with it.

00:39:43   I think it's a really interesting example of taking something from the desktop world

00:39:48   and the fundamentals are the same, but changing the interaction so it's touch native.

00:39:55   And I don't know, I like that you led with this in the article because I think it's the

00:39:58   best example of that.

00:40:00   Something we all understand and know and use every day on our computers that run desktop

00:40:04   OSes, but our computers that run mobile OSes, we can't do it, and a way to kind of bridge

00:40:09   that divide.

00:40:10   I think you've done a good job explaining it and showing it in the video for sure.

00:40:14   Yeah, and look, this is stuff again that it's going to sound so obvious to long-time Mac users or Windows users

00:40:21   that DOS is able to account for those scenarios where the drag and drop leads you to unexpected places,

00:40:27   such as dropping an image into an address bar or doing some conversions from rich text to plain text.

00:40:35   This is obvious on Mac OS, but it still hasn't been done on iOS.

00:40:40   And it will require so many additions.

00:40:43   Even if you simply consider rich text

00:40:46   that doesn't have a real framework on iOS

00:40:49   and that still cannot handle basic stuff

00:40:51   like let me paste a table in an email client

00:40:55   or allow me to keep my formatting

00:40:58   as I copy and paste text between apps.

00:41:00   So there's so much work that Apple should be doing here.

00:41:05   And that could be the reason why it's taking them two years

00:41:07   because it's a very complex system.

00:41:09   It's a very complex feature and I assume it's gonna be a very complex API, but it's not impossible.

00:41:16   It's been done before.

00:41:17   It could be updated for the era of touch and multi-touch especially.

00:41:23   And even if you look, for example, this is a footnote in my story, but Apple just acquired

00:41:31   a company that made an app based on an engine called Content Graph that its very main feature

00:41:38   was I'm able to understand multiple content types and to automatically translate them.

00:41:45   And that was the core feature of Workflow. Now, I don't think that Workflow was acquired

00:41:50   to power drag and drop, but it sure is nice to have the expertise of a team now at Apple

00:41:56   that truly understands this stuff.

00:42:00   So you took drag and drop one step further than you did last year with the idea of the

00:42:06   shelf? What is the shelf? So the idea is the shelf is a temporary place to hold

00:42:13   something for later and this super generic description is meant to be

00:42:19   generic because the shelf is not meant to be an app or a location in iCloud

00:42:26   Drive. Think about this, when you use drag and drop on the Mac and you want to

00:42:31   quickly store something for later because you don't know right away where

00:42:35   whether it's text or a photo or a link, should go. Usually most people, I would argue,

00:42:42   they just drop it onto the desktop or anywhere else in the Finder. And that's a

00:42:47   great feature of the Mac because you can just take something and be "okay I'm not

00:42:51   sure what to do with it, I just know that I'm gonna need it later at some point, so

00:42:55   let me just drop it there". It's like leaving something on the table as a

00:42:58   reminder. And if you consider bringing drag-and-drop to iOS, it just made sense

00:43:04   to me to have this kind of transient dock, if you will, where you can just drop stuff and take care of it later.

00:43:15   So we imagined this feature as you start drag and drop, you select something and you start dragging.

00:43:23   But if you go over the upper section of the screen, there's this shelf that comes down and reveals all of these slots.

00:43:33   slots. It's like a tray where you can drop stuff and you drop an item, the shelf closes again,

00:43:40   and now that item has been temporarily archived. Now, you know, maybe a few minutes pass, maybe a

00:43:45   couple of hours pass, you remember that you clipped an item into the shelf, now you're writing an

00:43:50   email message, you need that PDF or that image again, just open the shelf with a three-finger

00:43:55   swipe, you grab the item again and you bring it into your email message or pages document or,

00:44:02   you know, note, whatever. It's a way to sort of marry the simplicity of drag and drop with a way to

00:44:11   taking the burden of having to decide right now where something should go from the user.

00:44:21   It's a way to let them quickly archive, store, whatever you want to define it for later,

00:44:28   and take it back when they need it.

00:44:30   And I'm not sure that this is something that Apple is going to do this year,

00:44:35   but I continue to think that it makes sense to me

00:44:39   to have something like this to help you doing drag and drop on iOS.

00:44:43   Because there's no desktop, there's a home screen,

00:44:45   but do you really want stuff on your home screen?

00:44:47   I think a shelf would be much more elegant.

00:44:50   Yeah, I really like the fact that you can,

00:44:52   you know, the idea that you would be able to access it anywhere

00:44:56   with the three-finger swipe.

00:44:57   I think that's a really, really key part of it.

00:45:00   - Yeah, and again, it's taking an idea,

00:45:05   but updating it, right?

00:45:07   Something like DragThing,

00:45:10   or you can even do this with Apple's dock, kind of.

00:45:14   - Kind of, yeah.

00:45:15   - Or a lot of people, like I do,

00:45:16   have folders in their dock,

00:45:18   so I have Dropbox and I have downloads in my folders,

00:45:21   in my dock, and I quickly get things in and out of them.

00:45:26   But yeah, I mean, that's, that's kind of a complaint I have now with iOS.

00:45:30   And I've spoken with this before that if I go to make a PDF to upload to the web,

00:45:33   I've got to put it somewhere, right?

00:45:35   I've got to upload to iCloud or exact sentence of Dropbox or put it in documents.

00:45:40   Like I got to put it somewhere.

00:45:41   And if this is a way to kind of like stick a file somewhere temporarily and

00:45:46   then come back and get it, it can make that workflow much faster without having

00:45:49   to go out to the document provider and then back in.

00:45:53   And I think absolutely if drag and drop

00:45:56   and these other features are coming,

00:45:59   this is sort of part of it,

00:46:00   it's part of the same system of,

00:46:03   hey, I've got something, I need to move it somewhere.

00:46:05   And sometimes that means I need a temporary resting place,

00:46:07   like you said. - Yes.

00:46:08   - Sometimes I don't know quite where it's going.

00:46:10   Or for me, I keep my desktop very clean right now.

00:46:15   The only thing on it is a text file

00:46:18   where I'm keeping up with titles for the show

00:46:20   since we're not live this week.

00:46:22   It's the only thing on it.

00:46:22   And I know that because it's on my desktop it's important and when I'm done with it it

00:46:26   will go away.

00:46:27   And I think some people would use the shelf like I do, like I use my desktop.

00:46:31   And other people of course are going to have 10,000 things in it so Apple needs to make

00:46:34   sure that it scales better than iMessage apps did last year.

00:46:37   But it's a really interesting idea to have a space in iOS as a little temporary holding

00:46:43   bin that you can come back to later.

00:46:45   Yeah, and we try to think of ways to minimize management.

00:46:51   So for example, we imagined you could tap on an item that's been already saved in the

00:46:56   shelf to maybe have a quick look preview of the item before saying, "Well, I know that

00:47:02   I clipped this PDF, but what's it really about again?"

00:47:05   So you can just tap it again, you see a preview, and then you can decide what to do.

00:47:09   Or for example, if you saved a location or like an address from Apple Maps, you could

00:47:14   preview the location directly from the shelf with a tiny, quick look model preview, and

00:47:20   then you could do things and if you follow that idea that maybe developers

00:47:24   could provide their own Quick Look extensions. So for example, let's say that

00:47:28   I want to add a sheet from Ulysses into the Shelf. Really, what is a sheet?

00:47:33   It's not like an open file format. So maybe the Ulysses folks, they could

00:47:37   provide a Quick Look extension that says if the user clips a sheet from the app

00:47:42   into the Shelf, we can provide our own preview to the Quick Look panel and so

00:47:47   the user can still preview the sheet outside of Ulysses and from the shelf

00:47:52   and there will be for example a way to expand the shelf and to select all of

00:47:56   the items and sort of purge everything and delete all. I try to think of

00:48:01   multiple ways to sort of enhance the shelf and to have these little shortcuts

00:48:05   without having to make it too complex or too complicated.

00:48:10   So one very obvious set of features would be a redesign to the split view app

00:48:16   picker which was you know it was an incredible thing like split for you and

00:48:22   it still is to a point right like split for you is what made the iPad a viable

00:48:26   work machine for me like it brought me to the platform and it keeps me there

00:48:30   like as I was right I was writing these show notes in split view right like

00:48:34   Google Docs on one side and I had the web browser on another side right like

00:48:38   it's exactly what I need right it does if it fills the job but it has a it has

00:48:44   some room to grow now that it's kind of gotten a little bit long in the tooth.

00:48:47   And this is a list of the enhancements that you suggested from your article.

00:48:53   So to be able to arrange the most used applications that you have on a grid, similar to like a

00:48:59   mini home screen that would appear when you invoke a split view, an integrated spotlight

00:49:04   so you could search for applications or maybe even content, right?

00:49:07   So you'd be able to just open that straight up.

00:49:09   The picker view could be displayed on either side of the screen, which would be really

00:49:15   great so you could pull it in from the left or the right.

00:49:18   Recently used applications could be displayed at the bottom of the picker as like cards

00:49:22   so it's easier to recent.

00:49:23   So what it currently is is basically like a version of recents, right?

00:49:26   But to still have that but to minimize it and have also a system where you could choose

00:49:31   what you want to be showing.

00:49:33   Spring loading for items that are passed via drag and drop.

00:49:36   you could drag and drop to something in splitview and it opens the application right you just

00:49:40   hover over the app and the splitview picker could be invoked and navigated with an external

00:49:46   keyboard I would praise the Lord if they enabled that honestly so this is kind of like a good

00:49:54   breakdown of the features and I think this is all of these things are clear to me as

00:50:03   they are to you Federico as someone who gets their work done on this device every day to

00:50:07   the point where like if we don't get at least most of these I will be really really surprised.

00:50:15   Yeah again I try to sort of modernize and think more deeply about what we did last year.

00:50:25   This idea of you can have a grid of icons and you can have your recent apps. We already

00:50:30   We explored the idea last year, but we tried to make it a little prettier maybe, you know,

00:50:35   with the way that the recents go at the bottom, it's like a scrollable tray, and it matches

00:50:39   the same order of recent apps from the multitasking switcher, the one that you get if you double

00:50:44   click the home button, that would be the same order of recent apps, and then you have this

00:50:48   mini home screen that by default I imagine it could be the same layout of the actual

00:50:53   home screen, but then you can modify, you can drag items in different order if you want

00:50:57   to have a specific placement in Split View, for example.

00:51:00   And we try to account even for the potential problems that this concept would have, not

00:51:05   just the changes and the good stuff, but also the bad stuff.

00:51:09   If you can show the Split View picker on both sides, what happens if you have the same app

00:51:15   on two sides?

00:51:16   And so we thought maybe if the user already has notes, for example, Apple Notes, open

00:51:21   on the left side, and the user opens the Split View picker on the right side, the notes icon

00:51:27   should be dimmed, it shouldn't be selectable or tappable because it's

00:51:30   already open. So we try to account for all these potential problems and then we

00:51:34   thought, you know, it makes sense to support drag and drop with this system.

00:51:38   If the user starts dragging and they don't have an app open or they want to

00:51:42   switch apps, we have multi-touch, we have drag and drop, why not, you know, bring in

00:51:46   drag and drop to the Split View Picker? So we thought there should be two ways to

00:51:51   do this. Either you drop something into an app icon and then the app provides a

00:51:55   quick action menu or you spring load the app icon and the app opens and you

00:52:01   scroll to whatever you want to drop an item into. And the quick action

00:52:05   idea is we add in the video an example. You select some bullet list from an

00:52:12   email message. So by the way we came up with this concept of the video. It's

00:52:17   about planning a vacation to Barcelona. We had the idea of instead of showing a

00:52:22   bunch of distinct standalone features. Let's try to have like a day in the life

00:52:27   sort of theme for the video. So we're showing someone how the better iPad

00:52:33   software could help this family plan a vacation to Barcelona. And so at some

00:52:38   point in the video there's this email message and a member of the family is

00:52:42   reminding everyone to bring sunscreen and the iPhone charger and the adapter

00:52:47   cable and so we show the user selecting those lines of text, dropping them on

00:52:52   onto the Reminders icon in the Split View Picker.

00:52:55   And Reminders parses these lines of text

00:52:58   and shows a quick action menu that says,

00:53:00   I found four items.

00:53:02   Do you want to add those four new reminders to your list?

00:53:06   So it's stuff like that, you know,

00:53:08   to enhance the Split View Picker,

00:53:11   not just with the redesign interface,

00:53:12   but also with support for other system features,

00:53:15   whether it's drag and drop or extensions

00:53:17   or, you know, keyboard navigation.

00:53:20   I think if Apple does this,

00:53:21   they should just support everything because,

00:53:24   especially for iPad Pro, it's right there in the name.

00:53:27   You want to help pro users, this is how you help pro users.

00:53:30   - All right, let's take our second break for this week

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00:55:38   from Smile for their support of this show. So Federico, finder on iOS. This is a bold

00:55:48   idea.

00:55:49   >> Yeah.

00:55:50   >> Oh gosh.

00:55:51   >> Yeah. I think that, you know, there's people that say the iPad or iOS really, they don't

00:56:00   need a file system and I think that idea sort of lost all of its value years ago

00:56:05   when Apple brought the new document picker and the document

00:56:09   providers and the iCloud Drive app to iOS because right now if you look at

00:56:14   your iPad or your iPhone and iOS 10 you already have a file system it's just

00:56:17   different from the Mac you don't have of course desktop you don't have Windows

00:56:22   but you do have a way to organize files and folders you know you have you can

00:56:27   create subfolders and you can use apps as storage locations. So you can use

00:56:32   Dropbox as a native provider in the document picker, you can switch back and

00:56:37   forth between different locations. You do have a file system, it's just way too

00:56:42   simple and way too fragmented right now to be as powerful as the Mac. And my

00:56:48   argument is Apple should not just copy the Mac's Finder because there are so

00:56:53   many, at least from my perspective, so many problems with the Max Finder. The

00:56:57   way that the view settings are all kinds of weird and really the

00:57:01   problems of people going to delete files into places where they're not supposed

00:57:06   to look at. But I think there's also plenty of good stuff that Apple should

00:57:10   borrow from the file manager that they created decades ago and that should,

00:57:16   it would make absolute sense, especially on the iPad. I think the main

00:57:21   idea that I try to convey in the video and the article is the finder should be

00:57:26   a unified place for everything. It should be a single place for iCalDrive, for

00:57:30   local storage, for storage locations from apps, and for document providers. And in

00:57:38   fact I also wrote in the story I believe Apple should discontinue document

00:57:43   providers such as Dropbox or Google Drive as you know separate places. They

00:57:49   should be just finder extensions. On the Mac or Apple already has this kind of

00:57:53   system it's called finder sync and it's an extension that allows apps to modify

00:57:58   the native finder behavior and I think if Apple wants to do a native file

00:58:01   manager on iOS just unify all of these different bits that you already have but

00:58:07   make them easier and more powerful and let them integrate safely and natively

00:58:13   with the finder. So for example Dropbox could be you know a top-level destination

00:58:18   in the Finder and use their own sync, use their own badges to indicate

00:58:23   status and have native sharing features. Or people could use iCloud Drive,

00:58:28   which would be the default location in the Finder. iCloud Drive should receive

00:58:33   sharing, should receive tags, permission control and all of the good

00:58:37   stuff from the Mac should also be available on iOS. And finally, just make a

00:58:44   a decent interface. If you look at iCalll Drive right now, the app, which is the file

00:58:49   manager from Apple on iOS now, it is terrible. It's awful. It's, I believe, the worst app

00:58:54   that Apple released on iOS so far. The extension update that they did with iOS 10, I still

00:59:01   cannot believe that it shipped, and it's up right there with the split view picker in

00:59:04   terms of what is the worst stuff we've ever done on iOS. It's the split view picker and

00:59:09   the Add to iCloud Drive extension.

00:59:11   So, you know, add a serious interface,

00:59:14   especially for pro users.

00:59:17   Icon view, column view, you know, popovers,

00:59:20   pop ups to view more file information.

00:59:23   There was, you know, years ago when the iPad was so simple,

00:59:28   you know, I'm thinking iPad one or iPad two,

00:59:30   there was no split view, no multitasking,

00:59:33   no keyboard shortcuts.

00:59:34   It made sense to have everything so simple.

00:59:37   But now we're at the point where one half of the iPad

00:59:41   is meant for pro users.

00:59:43   So you have split view, you have keyboard shortcuts,

00:59:45   you have pro apps, and there's the other half,

00:59:48   which is still for some reason stuck in the past,

00:59:51   which is iCloud drive and these document providers.

00:59:54   And I think it would make sense to unify everything.

00:59:57   And it's kind of sounds like a paradox,

01:00:00   but by making it more powerful,

01:00:02   it will actually be simpler because it's just one place

01:00:05   where people can do anything they want.

01:00:07   I think too this could be a stage for them to build other things upon. So things

01:00:12   like USB or network storage, right? We talked ages ago about you can put an SD

01:00:17   card in and pull photos off of it but pulling audio files like from a mobile

01:00:21   recorder is a lot more difficult and if you're gonna go through the trouble of

01:00:26   building something like this then have those things enabled, right? So I can

01:00:32   easily browse other things on my network. So if I have a Mac server somewhere I

01:00:38   can browse that on my network and pull a file from it and then put it in iCloud

01:00:41   Drive on my iPad. Like make the iPad aware of the world around it a little

01:00:45   bit more as far as storage goes. Because right now the only way to do that is to

01:00:49   use something like Dropbox or iCloud Drive to copy it there and then let that

01:00:52   cloud service take care of it for you. Where really a lot of people I think

01:00:57   just have files on their computer that they may want on their iPad and and not

01:01:01   deal with like the desktop and document syncing they put into macOS Sierra which

01:01:06   is like buggy and weird and if you get it wrong can go terribly sideways on you

01:01:10   but it's like make this thing extensible in a way that is useful to all sorts of

01:01:15   different types of setups. Yeah I completely agree like the idea of being

01:01:22   able to have access to all of these files and they kind of all have parity

01:01:27   and that they can all be in there right from all my document providers that is

01:01:31   exciting to me as an idea.

01:01:33   You know, like even if, like, I don't know if,

01:01:36   how this kind of thing would work,

01:01:37   but like if applications, I wonder,

01:01:38   well like applications can't be document providers.

01:01:42   You know, like maybe that's getting a bit too

01:01:45   weird and complicated.

01:01:46   - They can.

01:01:47   I mean, you can use like, you can pull stuff in and out

01:01:50   of like the documents app or--

01:01:52   - Okay, so let me say, more of them should be then, right?

01:01:55   - Yeah. - 'Cause it's like,

01:01:56   for example, I had something in Word, I needed to get it.

01:02:00   And it was like word should be a document provider. Yeah.

01:02:02   So I can grab out a word.

01:02:03   So maybe that would be like an interesting way to do it. Right.

01:02:06   Where like the iCloud portion of it or something like that,

01:02:09   you just go into each application or whatever and grab the files out of them.

01:02:13   But that could be a bit weird, but yeah. Okay. So there you go. Today I learned,

01:02:16   I thought that there had to be like always like a cloud service.

01:02:19   No, there's just not, there's not many apps that have done it.

01:02:22   I mean to your bigger point of developers don't always adopt the stuff quickly.

01:02:26   Yeah. Yeah.

01:02:27   I can count probably on one hand of the apps I've come across to do this.

01:02:30   Yeah, and really because the API can be so weird for doing the document stuff.

01:02:36   And for years it's been so flaky with so many bugs I've been talking to developers.

01:02:40   Many of the features that Apple released with iOS 8 had problems that weren't fixed until

01:02:45   later in the iOS 8 cycle or in iOS 9 really.

01:02:49   And so I think if Apple is going to do this there needs to be a new API and they need

01:02:53   to stop with doing this system of, here you go with document picker, now you need to select

01:03:02   one from these destinations.

01:03:04   So you can go into this single interface and do whatever you want, but then if you exit,

01:03:09   you lose the file that you selected.

01:03:11   So I think Apple solved these problems years ago on the Mac with the Finder, but there's

01:03:17   also the counterargument of the Finder is too difficult to use for most people, which

01:03:21   I do believe it's true to an extent and so there should be a middle ground maybe.

01:03:26   Not as simple and not as limiting as what we have now in iOS but

01:03:32   maybe not as complex as it is on the Mac. For example I imagine in iOS 11 if

01:03:39   you try to open a document it shouldn't be presented with the iCalc Drive

01:03:43   interface by default and then you gotta tap on the locations button if you want

01:03:47   to drill into document providers. You should just have a finder with

01:03:51   sidebar that opens, kind of like the open file dialog on the Mac, and you have the

01:03:56   sidebar, you can choose, well, do I want to go into iCloud Drive or Dropbox, and you

01:04:00   can just tap once to change locations. You can have stuff like favorite apps or

01:04:05   favorite folders, and you can just dig down and pick the file that you want, and

01:04:10   that's it. You don't need to tap 10,000 times to change between three

01:04:15   destinations you can just navigate across this finder UI and so I think

01:04:23   there should be a new extension system there should be a new API and apps really

01:04:28   should be able to more easily open documents and data from each other. Right

01:04:34   now it is possible for example if you have a text editor like Unisys you can

01:04:39   open and edit a file from Working Copy, which is a GitHub client.

01:04:46   It's already possible today on iOS 10 to say I have this app and I want to open

01:04:52   and edit a file from another app, but it's so cumbersome and it's so slow, it

01:04:57   should be easier and it should be done anywhere. And I believe a

01:05:01   better interface is the first step. The second one would be make that interface,

01:05:05   make the file manager available anywhere. So I suppose there's going to be a finder

01:05:09   app on the home screen, like a whole layer done by Apple, and there should also be a new picker in

01:05:14   every app which is defined their UI. Make it accessible, work with developers, work with companies like

01:05:20   Dropbox and Microsoft, I don't want to say Google Drive because you know, Google, but try to understand

01:05:27   the needs of pro users on iOS and make the kind of interface that wouldn't be as difficult as it is on the Mac,

01:05:33   would be much better than what we have today.

01:05:38   So you also took a look at overall iOS design and you have some thoughts on

01:05:44   maybe some messages that Apple has sent in recent versions of iOS?

01:05:50   We tried to take a look at what Apple did last year with Apple Music and with some changes in

01:05:58   Apple Maps and going back to my iOS 10 review, there was a point where I said there are multiple

01:06:05   design languages coexisting in iOS 10 today.

01:06:09   And I still think that is true.

01:06:10   If you look at, you know, not just icons, but really the use of cards, the use of buttons

01:06:19   across apps like Safari and Mail, and then you look at Apple Music and Apple Maps and

01:06:23   Apple News, they look like apps from two different companies.

01:06:28   And I think, you know, this year I think we'll see a refresh of the iOS 11 interface.

01:06:34   I don't know if it's going to be a groundbreaking major redesign like iOS 7 was, but I think

01:06:39   there will be some new consistency.

01:06:41   And so we try to imagine what that consistency means.

01:06:45   And we didn't spend a lot of time on the design concept just because I prefer myself to focus

01:06:51   on features and functionality.

01:06:54   But I imagine toolbar icons could be thicker, could be easier to see and to spot at a glance.

01:07:01   could be contextual animations on icons that are associated with actions. So the

01:07:07   video opens with a possible redesign of the Apple Notes app with

01:07:13   these thicker icons that sort of blend the current iOS style with the

01:07:20   watchOS styles. When you tap on an icon you get this little highlight on the

01:07:25   on the button and the icon also animates which is kind of reminiscent of the

01:07:30   material style from Google, I guess. And it's a way to add context and to make it more accessible,

01:07:36   you know, to have these button shapes around icons. I think there's a lot that Apple could

01:07:40   do to sort of liven up the iOS UI to make it more contextual, to make it more accessible,

01:07:46   and to make it more fun, which I think it's important, you know, to make it fun. Even if

01:07:51   it's a pro app, I think it's important to give it some personality. And after looking, I know

01:07:56   I know that after looking at the icons that we did for Safari for Apple Notes,

01:08:00   I went back and looked at the actual icons in Safari on iOS 10,

01:08:04   and they looked so old to me.

01:08:06   And I'm biased, of course, because it's our concept.

01:08:10   But I would love to see the Apple Music and the Apple Maps,

01:08:13   the Apple News style be more consistent throughout the entire iOS 11.

01:08:21   And then also you kind of rounded up some smaller features

01:08:24   that were interesting to me.

01:08:26   And the idea, one of them is that the share sheet

01:08:28   kind of needs some work.

01:08:30   And you spoke about, you know,

01:08:32   as well as just making it a little bit better

01:08:35   to view what's going on,

01:08:37   you also kind of had an idea of breaking extensions

01:08:41   outside of the share sheet as well.

01:08:43   - Yeah, this is probably one of the toughest sells

01:08:48   from this concept, which is,

01:08:51   Right now, if you want to use an extension, whether it's a Share extension or an Action type one,

01:08:57   you need to go through the Share sheet.

01:08:58   There's always this middle step of, "Okay, I know what I want to do, but first I need to tap the Share icon

01:09:05   and I need to scroll this list of extensions and pick the one that I want."

01:09:09   And this slows you down a lot, especially if you use the same extension every time.

01:09:14   You just need to go through this middle step every time.

01:09:19   So I imagine, what if you could use, again, drag and drop to select an extension and manually

01:09:26   drop it into a toolbar or an area of an app where you can drop in extensions.

01:09:32   So I imagine, for example, having a 1Password icon in the Safari toolbar, so every time

01:09:38   you need to log into a webpage, you don't need to open the share sheet and then find

01:09:42   1Password, you can just tap on 1Password in the toolbar.

01:09:46   It's like the Mac, but done in a way that it combines the current system with possible

01:09:51   drag and drop and it would save you a lot of time.

01:09:55   But on the other hand, it would also require developers to support this feature.

01:10:00   I would assume developers would have to provide an icon for toolbars or for other interface

01:10:06   areas where extensions could be dropped.

01:10:09   And there's the argument to be made about, you know, by removing a step, you're possibly

01:10:16   opening up the system to potential damage caused by the users.

01:10:20   Because what if you accidentally tap on a workflow extension and something happens and

01:10:25   you didn't have the middle step of the sharesheet to save you?

01:10:29   So it's a trade-off, you know.

01:10:32   But I think it could be done in a way that, you know, you make it so that only the user

01:10:37   via drag and drop can bookmark, can mark an extension as a favorite.

01:10:42   And so it wouldn't be done by the system that suddenly you have your toolbar filled with icons,

01:10:47   you know, in the worst Windows nightmare from the old era.

01:10:52   It would be done by the user manually every time.

01:10:55   And I think, you know, for example, you could have an OmniFocus extension directly in Safari,

01:11:03   or you could have something like a Todoist extension

01:11:07   right in the mail UI.

01:11:10   It's a way to make the share sheet more extensible

01:11:13   and faster combining it with drag and drop.

01:11:17   But I don't know if Apple likes this idea

01:11:21   or has played around with this idea.

01:11:23   - Yeah, this is something that I would want

01:11:25   in some of my applications,

01:11:26   but I think of everything that you pose in the video

01:11:29   and in the article,

01:11:31   this feels like the least likely to happen for me.

01:11:34   Like I really struggled to imagine Apple

01:11:38   allowing the Yahoo tool bar to appear

01:11:42   in a bunch of different applications, you know?

01:11:44   - I tend to agree, yeah.

01:11:46   And I think for that reason, because it puts,

01:11:49   the share sheet can, for all of its trouble,

01:11:52   is kind of hidden away, right?

01:11:54   And if you don't ever go in there

01:11:56   or you don't enable a bunch of apps,

01:11:58   you don't know how messy it can get.

01:11:59   But to put that stuff like front and center

01:12:02   in Apple's UI Chrome doesn't seem like something

01:12:06   they're going to do.

01:12:07   I mean, even though they do it on the Mac,

01:12:09   but I think that on iOS with less space and sort of more

01:12:14   flexibility in the UI, I just don't quite

01:12:16   see it happening there.

01:12:19   So you touch on the home screen becoming denser,

01:12:21   which I completely agree with, right?

01:12:23   Like filling up that home screen a little bit more.

01:12:25   Yeah.

01:12:26   You spoke about multiple audio streams,

01:12:28   which is something that we've spoken about a bunch of times on this show.

01:12:31   I don't think we need to rehash that, right?

01:12:33   Like the idea of a new audio framework that can allow for simultaneous audio streams so

01:12:38   you could, you know, you could have a video playing and be listening to something else

01:12:41   or you could, as we want, record a Skype call or a VoIP call or a FaceTime call so we could

01:12:47   finally do podcasting on iOS.

01:12:49   If that happens Federico won't need to buy a new Mac Pro after all.

01:12:52   That's very true.

01:12:53   I could just use my iPad and iOS 11.

01:12:57   I think it makes a lot of sense not just for podcasters but for musicians.

01:13:01   You know, anyone who works with mixing apps that deal with multiple audio streams.

01:13:06   Right now they usually have to rely on stuff like Audio Bus, for example, to get audio

01:13:11   streams from multiple apps into a single interface and editing UI.

01:13:15   And I think that should be done at a system level.

01:13:17   There should be an API that deals with, you know, there's multiple streams occurring now

01:13:22   and you can control them.

01:13:24   be a control center maybe in another way but there should be at least support at

01:13:28   an API level for developers to be able to have multiple sessions, audio

01:13:33   sessions going at the same time. Yeah. Maybe a little bit more versatility and

01:13:39   love shown to Notes.app like for example you pose and like the ability to

01:13:44   use the Apple Pencil anywhere in the application to just draw wherever you

01:13:47   want as opposed to entering drawing mode and then having this little image popped

01:13:51   in which is a little bit hacky when you think about it especially you know you look at other

01:13:55   applications like good notes or notability right you can you can do this with their applications

01:14:00   and also more sharing options like support for sharing entire folders and plus I mean

01:14:08   I would like to see the sharing stuff improved it's a little bit janky like a couple of days

01:14:13   ago me and Adina were sharing a note and I was like I'll press the airdrop button to

01:14:17   to share this note.

01:14:18   When you do it, you still have to enter contact information.

01:14:22   I don't think, Apple, I don't think you know what AirDrop is.

01:14:25   It's a little bit weird.

01:14:27   - That's such a weird thing.

01:14:30   I mean, maybe it's like a two-step,

01:14:31   like you don't accidentally AirDrop a private note

01:14:34   to someone on the subway, but it's--

01:14:35   - Yeah, but that's your, you know,

01:14:36   I mean, that's your problem, right?

01:14:38   Like, click the right button.

01:14:40   - No mercy in the UI.

01:14:44   - Yeah.

01:14:46   Yeah, I think the drawing mode, the problem there would be for people like you, Myke,

01:14:54   to add freeform drawing would mean you cannot control the interface with a pencil.

01:15:01   That's the big problem here.

01:15:02   Yes and no.

01:15:03   I mean, I use applications like GoodNotes and Notability, right?

01:15:07   And there's a few ways you can do this.

01:15:08   You can press a button, right?

01:15:11   Like you can press the pen button and then you just start drawing.

01:15:15   But also in applications that have a notes component to them, I'm mostly okay with the

01:15:21   fact that I use my finger and then use the Apple Pencil.

01:15:24   Let me scroll the list, but when I'm in the content of the note, like if I touch my Apple

01:15:29   Pencil to the page and it draws something, I'm mostly okay with that.

01:15:33   I understand that.

01:15:36   Most applications solve this by having you press a button, which will then kind of enable

01:15:39   pencil mode.

01:15:40   And then you can draw and you can use your finger.

01:15:43   And then when you click it again you can choose the pencil to navigate.

01:15:48   So there's an item here in the notes and it just says that I have a confession.

01:15:54   And now I sort of regret putting this in here because...

01:15:57   Oh no.

01:15:58   No go ahead.

01:15:59   Now I feel I have to come clean.

01:16:00   I feel like I know what it is.

01:16:02   I should confess.

01:16:03   Myke probably can guess what it is.

01:16:05   Steven, do you have a desire for work chat?

01:16:08   I have my Notes at Evernote right now.

01:16:10   Oh my god.

01:16:11   What?

01:16:12   this to me again. Why? Two big reasons and one of them you go into in your

01:16:18   article Federico that folders and subfolders in notes on iOS is like a

01:16:23   mess and you can't you can't you can't create them there at all right now and I

01:16:28   ran into an issue which is one issue I switch is I use notes I use folders and

01:16:32   subfolders and notes pretty heavily and the notes application on iOS would not

01:16:37   and the Mac would not ever save what folders were open and not so I'd go in

01:16:43   to look for something and I have to like tap into a folder tap into the sub

01:16:46   folder kind of the opposite problem of iCloud Drive where everything's always

01:16:49   expanded and it really it was like a small thing but just a graded me

01:16:54   endlessly but I also have a lot of notes that have multiple attachments in them

01:17:01   so I like have some text and have a screenshot and have some more text and

01:17:04   and then a PDF and some more text in the screenshot.

01:17:06   And Notes was just slowly breaking down for me in that.

01:17:10   It does a good job at handling attachments

01:17:12   and you have the attachment view,

01:17:14   which is actually pretty nice,

01:17:16   but I just kind of became increasingly frustrated

01:17:19   with some of the way those things were laid out

01:17:22   and some of the lack of text control

01:17:25   and some other things in there.

01:17:27   And so I started by just moving one notebook into Evernote

01:17:31   and I have to say all the problems

01:17:32   are still there, but they have done a really good job

01:17:36   at making it easier to work around,

01:17:38   and so you can completely turn off stuff you don't want,

01:17:41   and the syncing's really good.

01:17:42   And I've been in here like six weeks,

01:17:44   and honestly, like, things are pretty good.

01:17:47   And one thing I'd forgotten that I really liked,

01:17:50   and one thing that I would like to see Apple address

01:17:52   in the notes application is some idea of shortcuts.

01:17:56   And so I have three notes that I get into,

01:17:59   if not every day, at least four or five times a week.

01:18:04   And they're buried in subfolders somewhere.

01:18:06   And in Notes, I'd have to go and find them or search for it.

01:18:09   And I just need to be in there for a quick second

01:18:12   just to put something in it and then get out.

01:18:14   And Evernote has shortcuts.

01:18:15   They sync across all your devices.

01:18:17   So I go in, I can enter this one note,

01:18:20   add the line of text I need for the day that it is,

01:18:23   and then move on.

01:18:23   And that speed for that particular use case

01:18:27   is really nice in something like Evernote.

01:18:29   So we'll see how long it lasts.

01:18:31   I'm very, I really hope Apple makes notes more flexible

01:18:35   in iOS 11 and in Mac OS 10.13.

01:18:39   But for now, like Evernote's been totally great.

01:18:42   So, so there.

01:18:44   I even, to show you the depths of my shame,

01:18:47   someone asked for a screenshot of my iPhone

01:18:50   and I hit Evernote and put notes back in place

01:18:53   'cause I don't want to get into it.

01:18:53   'Cause it's somebody that you two follow

01:18:55   and you would see it and then have to come clean to you then.

01:18:57   But I've come clean to you now.

01:18:58   I've confessed my sins and it feels pretty good to have it off my chest.

01:19:01   We don't have time for this today.

01:19:04   I know.

01:19:05   That's why I did it today.

01:19:06   And I am in charge of follow-ups.

01:19:07   It's never coming up again.

01:19:08   Next.

01:19:09   Moving swiftly on.

01:19:11   And also, I think the last of the features that I saw you, we're ending on a real high

01:19:16   here.

01:19:17   Some improvements to Mail.app?

01:19:19   Yes.

01:19:20   Well, you know, of all the system apps, I think Mail is the one that is the most behind

01:19:28   the competition. There are some excellent clients on the App Store these days, especially

01:19:32   I feel like after Mailbox went away, it was a chance for other companies to sort of not

01:19:38   just rebuild Mailbox but go even beyond. So even if you look at Gmail, Outlook, Spark,

01:19:46   Polymail, Newton, Airmail of course, there are so many excellent choices and if you try

01:19:53   those apps and then you go back to Apple Mail, it just feels like it's an app from 10 years

01:19:57   ago. And Apple hasn't kept up with the pace of innovation, I think, from others.

01:20:02   And some features that have become commonplace these days, like you can

01:20:06   snooze a message, or you know, you can integrate with apps, you can

01:20:13   have saved searches. That kind of stuff is still not available on iOS.

01:20:18   So I feel like Apple is failing on two fronts with their mail app. It is not as

01:20:22   powerful as their Mac version, which does have features for pro users such as smart

01:20:29   folders and rules and all of these other options that are not available on iOS, but they're

01:20:35   also not keeping up with others.

01:20:37   They're not following what other people are doing with snoozing, for example.

01:20:42   And I think it is a chance this year for Apple to sort of redo their mail app to make it

01:20:47   faster because it's still so slow if you try to search for a message with a Gmail account,

01:20:52   It's kind of terrible.

01:20:54   Personally I never can find what I'm looking for in Mail.

01:20:58   And they should just extend it and allow developers to integrate with Mail, to bring in apps and

01:21:03   to let users more easily and more quickly manage their messages by integrating with

01:21:08   apps, by snoozing messages which has become really a de facto standard in email clients

01:21:15   and just make it a modern email client because it's been 10 years of iOS and Mail I feel

01:21:21   it's the app that has changed the least. I totally agree it really seems like it

01:21:28   has been more or less forgotten about and and in the wake of I mean you just

01:21:34   riled off on how many apps in the wake of this huge like like clearly people

01:21:39   want more right or there wouldn't be a new mail app every day and right now

01:21:45   those features are reserved for people who are willing to put up with the pain

01:21:49   of having a third-party email client. For a lot of people that pain is worth

01:21:53   those features and it really seems like like this seems really low hanging fruit

01:21:58   to me. Clearly there's a demand for this. Apple could do it really nicely and with

01:22:03   some of the stuff like smart folders they already have it it's on the Mac and

01:22:06   and you know bring that to iOS but the search man I'm glad you brought up search

01:22:12   the search is so bad. I use a Gmail account and two Google Apps accounts in

01:22:17   and mail and I have the Gmail app installed on my iPhone because I need to search something

01:22:22   I go to it because 9 times out of 10 mail.app can't find it.

01:22:27   That's really sad.

01:22:29   The stuff is there.

01:22:32   People always point fingers at Google doing non-iMap stuff.

01:22:36   The reality is Google is the biggest, if not the biggest, probably one of the biggest email

01:22:41   providers of iPhone users.

01:22:44   Work with it better, have search that works, and then give us these things that clearly

01:22:47   we all want.

01:22:48   Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:22:51   So Federico, how did putting the video together compare this year to last year?

01:22:57   Well, I started working on this almost three months ago.

01:23:04   That's when I started my note of wishes that I wanted to come to the iPad.

01:23:11   And I had the realization of I should focus on the iPad.

01:23:14   I think around March, I wanted to do both iPhone and iPad.

01:23:19   But as I was putting together this outline, I just felt better about the ideas that I

01:23:23   had about the iPad and I was struggling to come up with iPhone stuff.

01:23:27   And I thought that was a sign of I should focus on the iPad because this is where Apple

01:23:32   is most behind.

01:23:34   And so I contacted Sam and we got to work in, I think in mid-March, and we used Slack

01:23:40   to communicate back and forth and to share mockups.

01:23:43   Fun fact, we used to communicate with Telegram last year.

01:23:47   And this year, it's been much better using--

01:23:49   Yeah, Telegram.

01:23:51   Remember that?

01:23:51   Yeah.

01:23:52   Yeah, I remember that.

01:23:53   It's been much better communicating

01:23:55   than search in Slack.

01:23:56   It's been super fun to look back at the concept and the mockups

01:24:01   that we did.

01:24:02   During the initial stages, Sam shared with me--

01:24:08   I think it's called Marvel.

01:24:09   It's like an interactive prototype tool.

01:24:12   So I was able to sort of understand the interactions

01:24:16   that he had in mind.

01:24:17   And so we had these very rudimentary mock-ups

01:24:20   for the split view picker and the shelf.

01:24:22   And that was really fun because I could actually try

01:24:25   and see the animations.

01:24:26   That was very fun.

01:24:28   - Marvel is very, very impressive.

01:24:29   It's marvelous, you could even say, if you wanted to.

01:24:32   - Oh, Myke.

01:24:33   - You could say it.

01:24:34   If you wanted to say it, you could say it.

01:24:36   - Don't say it.

01:24:37   - Yes, you're fired from the show.

01:24:39   Also, I think Sam uses Sketch to build all of the assets.

01:24:44   Like last year, the video was exported at 4K.

01:24:49   I don't even know what kind of computer Sam has.

01:24:51   I assume it must be a Mac Pro or an iMac.

01:24:54   I know it's a Mac and it uses Sketch.

01:24:56   And I don't know all of the other tools that it uses.

01:24:58   It's gonna have a behind the scenes type of stuff

01:25:02   on the Cloud Mac stories newsletter.

01:25:05   So, you know, it's gonna explain this stuff much better

01:25:08   than I can. But from my end, I had this shared note, we were talking about sharing in notes,

01:25:16   that I sent to Sam and I was looking at my ideas and it was organised in sections. And

01:25:22   then Sam, a month later, came back to me with the same ideas but done in a sort of storyboard

01:25:30   structure. There were scenes and ideas for cuts and zoom levels and transitions.

01:25:36   So professional.

01:25:37   I was very professional and from the get-go, we had this,

01:25:41   I looked back and my first idea was,

01:25:45   we should do a day in the life kind of theme

01:25:48   to show the changes in practice.

01:25:50   Instead of just having a like a gallery of mock-ups

01:25:53   and features, let's show how a typical workflow

01:25:58   would look like.

01:25:59   And Sam had the idea of,

01:26:01   why don't we plan a vacation to Barcelona,

01:26:03   which is a city that we both love.

01:26:05   So nice that you two got on that vacation together, I guess, at the end of this.

01:26:08   Yeah. It's really sweet.

01:26:10   Yeah. So that is perfect.

01:26:11   Let's plan a vacation to Barcelona.

01:26:13   So we try to imagine all of the apps that could be used.

01:26:16   You know, for example, if you look, we have Duolingo in the shelf,

01:26:20   which is the app to learn a different language.

01:26:23   And there were some details that I'm really proud of in the video, for example,

01:26:27   because it's a day in the life.

01:26:31   The time in the system clock changes throughout the day

01:26:34   to show you that it's the same person using the iPad throughout the day

01:26:38   to switch between multiple apps in multiple sessions.

01:26:42   Tell everyone we've got a smarty pants over here.

01:26:47   There's some other stuff like most of the changes in notes that I,

01:26:51   you know, they're not the highlight of the video, but they're there like

01:26:55   they're better, rich links, there's, you know,

01:26:59   new icons, there's the little animations and

01:27:04   We tried to replicate the feeling of last year, but it's also kind of different.

01:27:08   Last year I tried to look back and the core principle is the same, which is we should make a video that looks like something that could happen, that looks real.

01:27:19   But last year, even the drag and drop stuff, it was based on the copy and paste menu.

01:27:24   This year we went with a more gestural sort of interaction.

01:27:30   and it looks a bit different, it looks more new.

01:27:33   And of course the shelf is something that doesn't exist on iOS.

01:27:36   So I think this year we had to balance the fact that we want to make a video

01:27:41   that looks like something that Apple could do and that looks native to iOS,

01:27:45   but we also have to invent these features because they don't exist right now.

01:27:50   And so we spent a lot of time on making sure that those new features that don't exist

01:27:55   wouldn't feel out of place because something that I don't like is when I look at concepts

01:28:00   from other people, they look like something that,

01:28:02   you know, it doesn't belong to iOS.

01:28:04   And that is not what I wanted to build.

01:28:07   And of course, you know, as usual,

01:28:09   I provided lots of comments and lots of notes to Sam,

01:28:13   lots of bullet points in Slack and notes.

01:28:15   And, you know, he iterated with the mock-ups,

01:28:19   with the static images,

01:28:20   and then he sent me back the animations

01:28:22   and then back and forth.

01:28:23   It was very nice.

01:28:24   Sam is a pro and he's a genius.

01:28:26   So I'm very happy with the result.

01:28:28   And also the music came from Sam, he gave me two choices and we settled on this epic beat this year.

01:28:36   It's much more different from the happy music from last year, but I think it works.

01:28:40   Epic beat, the name of the song.

01:28:42   I think it's called Epic Beat.

01:28:44   Perfect, of course it is.

01:28:45   Yeah, it really has the look and feel of something that could come from Cupertino in my eyes.

01:28:52   I watch it and I'm like, "You could fool me."

01:28:56   Actually, last year I was talking to a friend outside of Moscone and it was like, "You know,

01:29:02   I gotta tell you, a friend of mine texted me a few days ago and he told me, 'Hey guys,

01:29:07   I saw that you announced the new iOS 10' and my friend was talking about your concept.

01:29:14   So we had to explain that, so thank you." Yeah, that's the idea. I mean, I don't want

01:29:20   to fool people, but I want to make sure that when you look at concepts, if they don't look

01:29:25   native and if they break the illusion, you're just gonna notice this is something that can

01:29:30   never exist, this is something that doesn't make sense because I cannot picture it. And

01:29:34   we want to make sure that you can picture it, that you can see it, how it would make

01:29:38   sense and that's why they need to look like Apple videos to us. Because they need to make

01:29:42   sense, they need not to fool people but to be credible, to be reasonable. And I think

01:29:47   if you cannot break the illusion then you get people to start thinking and to start

01:29:52   imagining things and that's the beauty of a concept that you can start a discussion.

01:29:56   All right you can find links to all of this stuff in our show notes today which are relay.fm/connected/142

01:30:02   or just go to maxstories.net. This is incredible work from you and Sam again this year Federico.

01:30:11   So thank you. Bravo. And I guess this begins the preparation for WWDC. Yes. Right like

01:30:20   this is the start. We've got like two more episodes. It's coming up. It's all happening.

01:30:29   So buckle up everybody I guess. Thanks to our sponsors this week, the fine folk over

01:30:34   at Squarespace and PDF-Pen9 from Smile. You can find Federico online, he's @vitici.

01:30:44   and maxstories.net and what other stories Federico? Any other stories?

01:30:49   Or are we good? Just the two?

01:30:51   This is all the stories that I have yeah.

01:30:54   All the great stories .net apparently as well as where you also find them.

01:30:58   You can go to 512pixels.net for Steven's work and he is @ismh on Twitter.

01:31:03   I'm @imike, I M Y K E. We'll be back next week. Thank you so much for listening to

01:31:08   Connected episode 142. Until then say goodbye guys.

01:31:12   Arrivederci. Adios.