Connected

00:00:00 ◼   ► [Music]

00:00:06 ◼   ► From VLA FM, this is Connected, episode 142. Today's show is brought to you by Squarespace

00:00:13 ◼   ► and PDF Pen 9 from SMILE. My name is Myke Early. I am joined by Mr. Stephen Hackett. Hello,

00:00:18 ◼   ► Stephen Hackett. Hello, Michael Hurley. And the man of the hour, Mr. Federico Vittucci. Ciao Federico.

00:00:24 ◼   ► Ciao a tutti. Hello. Hi.

00:00:27 ◼   ► Wow, that was a lot. That was a lot in that.

00:00:29 ◼   ► It was really not a lot. How are you?

00:00:31 ◼   ► I'm very well. How are you?

00:00:34 ◼   ► A little tired, but also happy that it's over again.

00:00:39 ◼   ► So Federico published a really big article today and video,

00:00:43 ◼   ► and we're going to talk about that a little bit later on in the show.

00:00:46 ◼   ► But before we do, Steven requires that we discuss follow up

00:00:50 ◼   ► as part of his official contract that he signed.

00:00:54 ◼   ► I wrote it and then I signed it and it's just me.

00:00:57 ◼   ► - And crayon. - Crayon, come on.

00:00:59 ◼   ► Come on, man.

00:01:00 ◼   ► So we've spoken a lot about Amazon's new echoes,

00:01:04 ◼   ► the look, which has a camera and is all about fashion,

00:01:07 ◼   ► and then the echo show, which is an echo with a screen,

00:01:12 ◼   ► and so it can display you information,

00:01:13 ◼   ► it's a touchscreen, you can interact with it.

00:01:15 ◼   ► That ships, as we've discussed, in like six weeks or so,

00:01:17 ◼   ► the very end of June,

00:01:19 ◼   ► but there's been a lot of conversation around

00:01:21 ◼   ► sort of thing they slipped into all of this and it's in existing echoes as well

00:01:26 ◼   ► in the app. Amazon kind of launched a messaging platform so it works a couple

00:01:31 ◼   ► of different ways depending on what devices you have. So I have an echo dot

00:01:35 ◼   ► for instance here on my desk just right there a couple feet away and I can send

00:01:40 ◼   ► voice messages and receive voice messages through it or through the

00:01:45 ◼   ► application and if for instance Federico sends me one the echo will blink the

00:01:50 ◼   ► ring around it turns green. I didn't know what that meant and so I just asked the

00:01:54 ◼   ► Echo blank "why are you green?" and it told me. It was just kind of amazing moment

00:01:59 ◼   ► like oh it really understood what I meant but there's been a lot of concern

00:02:04 ◼   ► about privacy and and like there's some weirdness here. There's an article over

00:02:10 ◼   ► on the verge outlining some of this. More or less when you open the the new Echo

00:02:17 ◼   ► app on your iPhone which has been redesigned it's way nicer now and you

00:02:21 ◼   ► have to upload all your contacts and it looks those contacts up it says these

00:02:26 ◼   ► people have echoes you can talk to these people obviously that's not super great

00:02:29 ◼   ► but a lot of people are doing it I did it like I give him my contact sorry if

00:02:35 ◼   ► you're my contact list sorry sorry contacts but I want to see what this

00:02:39 ◼   ► what this was like and it will talk about it but there's no way to block

00:02:42 ◼   ► communication at this point that you don't want so if someone is sending you

00:02:47 ◼   ► messages and you don't want to hear from them or they're being inappropriate or

00:02:51 ◼   ► they're harassing you there's no way to block those people as long as somebody

00:02:55 ◼   ► has your phone number and this Echo mobile app then they can reach you.

00:03:01 ◼   ► It's interesting that I don't see it in my application like I can't see anything

00:03:05 ◼   ► that talks about messages. I think it's US only. Feels like it must be US only

00:03:10 ◼   ► there you go. Yeah so the so I guess the the story here is I mean obviously there

00:03:16 ◼   ► There are issues with this and there should be a way to block people.

00:03:21 ◼   ► Some people have said it's a problem that anyone with your phone number can message

00:03:25 ◼   ► you through this thing.

00:03:26 ◼   ► And like, I don't see a huge problem with that because if someone has your contact information,

00:03:30 ◼   ► they can call your phone or send you an iMessage or send you an email.

00:03:33 ◼   ► Yes, it's weird that the echoes in your kitchen is going to light up green and make a noise.

00:03:38 ◼   ► That's a little bit different, but I do think they definitely need some mechanism to say,

00:03:42 ◼   ► this person, I do not want this person to be able to contact me via the Echo.

00:03:48 ◼   ► Yeah, I think that's the problem really. It's not about anyone can contact you

00:03:52 ◼   ► because, you know, anyone can call me if they have my phone number and anyone can

00:03:57 ◼   ► text me, anyone can come to my house and ring the doorbell. I don't think that's a

00:04:01 ◼   ► problem. The problem is the kind of action that you can take to prevent that

00:04:04 ◼   ► from happening over and over. So if someone comes to my house and rings my

00:04:09 ◼   ► but every five minutes I'm gonna go downstairs and take care of that. And if anyone starts calling me

00:04:14 ◼   ► on my iPhone I'm just gonna block the number. Here on the in the Electa app there's no way to block

00:04:20 ◼   ► anyone and I think that's a problem because you know with these communication systems where there's

00:04:26 ◼   ► no two-way authentication you know you have my phone number you can call me and this is the same

00:04:31 ◼   ► concept. You have my phone number, you can ring my echo speaker, but there's no blocking UI,

00:04:39 ◼   ► there's no blocking feature, and I think Amazon needs to add that and needs to add settings to

00:04:45 ◼   ► prevent people from being called all the time. I think it makes sense and I'm not sure how you can

00:04:50 ◼   ► ship a communication product today and not think of the blocking system, just because anyone

00:04:58 ◼   ► gonna ask them today and it just doesn't make any sense to me. I'm so surprised

00:05:03 ◼   ► that Amazon had this kind of oversight. So two things. One, they said that they're

00:05:08 ◼   ► gonna add it right after this story kind of caught a bit of heat. They said, "We're sorry

00:05:12 ◼   ► we're working on it." The other thing, I've been thinking a lot about this.

00:05:15 ◼   ► My initial point was, my initial feeling was definitely the same as you guys.

00:05:19 ◼   ► It's like, you know, this is just the way things are now. People can just contact

00:05:23 ◼   ► you. If you give someone your contact information, right, they can

00:05:28 ◼   ► contact you however. I tell you the thing that I've been thinking about that's been

00:05:34 ◼   ► playing on my mind a little bit. When everybody bought the Amazon Echo, they didn't think

00:05:42 ◼   ► it would ever do this. There was never an idea that this was going to be a device that

00:05:47 ◼   ► people could start calling you on. I don't think anybody considered that as an option

00:05:52 ◼   ► and obviously Amazon didn't say it. So you bought this device and put it into your home.

00:05:56 ◼   ► you are a type of person who just doesn't want this, well this is really frustrating

00:06:01 ◼   ► because now this device has been updated without your desire and now people can start calling

00:06:06 ◼   ► you on it.

00:06:07 ◼   ► That is true.

00:06:08 ◼   ► That is, I think that's the problem where it's like, I was thinking like, well look,

00:06:13 ◼   ► every service now, like you know, people can contact you, but like if you think about how

00:06:17 ◼   ► you do this, you download the applications, right, or whatever, or you have a phone and

00:06:22 ◼   ► And you know that your phone is a communications device, which is why you bought it, and any

00:06:26 ◼   ► communication apps you put on it will allow for people to communicate with you.

00:06:30 ◼   ► But when we brought these canisters, these echoes, and put them in our homes, they were

00:06:35 ◼   ► purely "I'm going to communicate with you and you'll talk to Amazon."

00:06:39 ◼   ► No one was ever talking back to me, but now people can start calling me.

00:06:43 ◼   ► And it's not just on the Echo Show, right?

00:06:45 ◼   ► Which is like, okay, if this new product has the calling in it, then you know.

00:06:49 ◼   ► But everybody's echoes were updated silently, right?

00:06:53 ◼   ► And now people can start calling you.

00:06:55 ◼   ► That's the thing that I find is different.

00:06:58 ◼   ► Because it's kind of like Trojan horse this messaging system into the product.

00:07:06 ◼   ► Which I think is one of the difference makers of it.

00:07:08 ◼   ► Yeah, that's a good point.

00:07:11 ◼   ► That makes sense.

00:07:12 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:07:13 ◼   ► Especially, you know, you buy a device with some kind of expectation and then, you know,

00:07:18 ◼   ► Echo is the type of hardware that updates itself, you cannot even decide "oh I don't

00:07:23 ◼   ► want this update". Like I know people for example who the iOS interface changes and

00:07:27 ◼   ► people do not update because they don't want the changes, your changes are pushed upon

00:07:32 ◼   ► you.

00:07:33 ◼   ► I would like it if you could just say like turn it off, I don't want people messaging

00:07:36 ◼   ► me. Just a broad switch to just turn it off. Because you shouldn't necessarily force this

00:07:42 ◼   ► on people right? Like it's not, I don't think Amazon's looking to change the world with

00:07:46 ◼   ► this thing, they basically were trying to add a feature to their new camera device.

00:07:50 ◼   ► And then they just said, well, we can just do this everywhere.

00:07:53 ◼   ► On the drop-in, by the way, Amazon published a really good demo video.

00:07:57 ◼   ► And I think this one was significantly better than the original Echo video, where they were

00:08:04 ◼   ► kind of showing off what the device could do.

00:08:06 ◼   ► And they showed some of the drop-in feature, right?

00:08:08 ◼   ► I had problems with that drop-in feature last week.

00:08:11 ◼   ► And it looks like that when you go to drop in on someone, they see like a blurred, a

00:08:17 ◼   ► really blurred view. So they can't just see you automatically and you get the ability

00:08:22 ◼   ► to stop it from happening. Like you can say like, no, like don't, don't let the person

00:08:28 ◼   ► drop in.

00:08:29 ◼   ► Go away.

00:08:30 ◼   ► Yeah. And so I think, okay, that looks much better than, than the, like the original way

00:08:34 ◼   ► that I thought it was going to be.

00:08:36 ◼   ► Like a face appears.

00:08:38 ◼   ► - Yeah, they could just like, you're doing whatever

00:08:41 ◼   ► you're doing and then your grandma's just like

00:08:43 ◼   ► looking at you.

00:08:44 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's like the Harry Potter scene

00:08:47 ◼   ► when Sirius Black appears in the fireplace.

00:08:49 ◼   ► - Exactly, it is just like that.

00:08:52 ◼   ► Funnily enough, that was what I thought of

00:08:53 ◼   ► when I first saw it.

00:08:54 ◼   ► So yeah, I think that it's good.

00:08:58 ◼   ► And we should watch a video.

00:08:58 ◼   ► I haven't seen a video, it's like a five minute video.

00:09:00 ◼   ► And I think Amazon does a really good story telling here.

00:09:04 ◼   ► Like they really have a good way of showing

00:09:07 ◼   ► how the product can be used and they have something

00:09:10 ◼   ► that I like more in this video than the previous video,

00:09:12 ◼   ► a bunch of different families and people

00:09:14 ◼   ► so it can show different use cases.

00:09:16 ◼   ► And it's pretty funny too, so it's worth watching.

00:09:18 ◼   ► But it's good just to get a little bit more context

00:09:20 ◼   ► around what drop-in's all about.

00:09:22 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's just a weird addition, I think.

00:09:25 ◼   ► The more I think about it,

00:09:26 ◼   ► to have it in the app and everywhere.

00:09:29 ◼   ► And I think a part of that too, we haven't really mentioned,

00:09:31 ◼   ► is that the Echo, at least for those of us

00:09:33 ◼   ► who live with other humans,

00:09:35 ◼   ► is not necessarily like a personal device.

00:09:37 ◼   ► Like I ask it something, my kids ask something,

00:09:40 ◼   ► my wife wants it to start a song.

00:09:42 ◼   ► We're all using it for different things

00:09:44 ◼   ► and it's not, yes it's tied to certain things of mine,

00:09:49 ◼   ► but my kids don't know that they can add things

00:09:51 ◼   ► to my to-do list from it.

00:09:52 ◼   ► Just pray for me if that ever happens.

00:09:56 ◼   ► But it's a communal device and messaging,

00:10:01 ◼   ► by default, is a very private thing.

00:10:03 ◼   ► And so I, even though, you know, my nerd friends who have echoes who we've been playing with

00:10:08 ◼   ► it this week, I know I trust them, they're not going to send something terrible to me

00:10:12 ◼   ► over the echo messaging app.

00:10:14 ◼   ► But if they did, I've got a house full of children.

00:10:16 ◼   ► And like, you know, that there's that aspect of it too, that you're right, Myke, that it's

00:10:20 ◼   ► sort of Trojan horse in there.

00:10:22 ◼   ► But it's also weird because it's it takes something personal communication and puts

00:10:25 ◼   ► it you know, potentially in a non personal environment.

00:10:29 ◼   ► I think that's a little weird too.

00:10:31 ◼   ► So we should move on.

00:10:33 ◼   ► We have a link in the show notes to the Relay.fm blog.

00:10:37 ◼   ► We have launched two new shows this week.

00:10:41 ◼   ► The first is called Roboism.

00:10:43 ◼   ► It is by Alex Cox.

00:10:45 ◼   ► You may know Alex from things like Cards against Humanity or Dubai Friday.

00:10:49 ◼   ► Podcast is really great.

00:10:51 ◼   ► And her co-host Savannah Milian.

00:10:52 ◼   ► They talk about robots, artificial intelligence, machine learning, and how all that stuff affects

00:10:58 ◼   ► our culture.

00:10:59 ◼   ► I think for me at least I think about sort of the stuff is like kind of out there in

00:11:03 ◼   ► the future but the reality is this stuff is now here in the present and Alex and Savannah

00:11:07 ◼   ► talk about that.

00:11:08 ◼   ► It's a fortnightly show.

00:11:10 ◼   ► It will be a lot of fun.

00:11:12 ◼   ► Episode one is out now.

00:11:14 ◼   ► We also launched originality so Aline Sims who used to host less than or equal on the

00:11:19 ◼   ► network she's back with a new show with Kay Tempest Bradford.

00:11:23 ◼   ► Tempest is an author and they together are interviewing creatives about like the

00:11:29 ◼   ► where's, how's and why's of creative genius like where ideas come from and how you

00:11:33 ◼   ► work on these ideas into like a finished work and it's a really fun format.

00:11:38 ◼   ► They're interviewing people and then they like jump in and talk about the

00:11:41 ◼   ► interview and go back to it. Really nicely edited. They're doing a really

00:11:44 ◼   ► nice job in the production. If you enjoyed Myke's old interview show which

00:11:49 ◼   ► had like six names over the years. I don't know why you have to be that way.

00:11:54 ◼   ► If you like that sort of programming, I think you would enjoy originality. It's also Fortnitely,

00:11:58 ◼   ► so neither of those are weekly. You've got plenty of time to get them in your schedule.

00:12:01 ◼   ► And yeah, go check them out. And while we're on the news front, continuing

00:12:06 ◼   ► the year of live that we've spoken about, there's going to be a London meetup, a London-based

00:12:12 ◼   ► meetup for two-thirds of the Connected podcast on Friday, June the 2nd. It's going to be

00:12:18 ◼   ► the first link in the show notes this week will be to get tickets if you want to go get

00:12:22 ◼   ► tickets. Me and Federico are going to be in town back at the Big Chill House on Friday

00:12:28 ◼   ► June 2nd from 7 to 10pm. The tickets are free so you can go and sign up and come along and

00:12:35 ◼   ► say hi to us as we get prepared to head off to San Jose the next day.

00:12:40 ◼   ► Yeah, last year was awesome. It was. It was. It was a lot of fun.

00:12:45 ◼   ► And you know, it was actually I think my first time meeting any kind of podcast listener

00:12:52 ◼   ► and it just made it so real and everyone was so happy and so kind.

00:12:57 ◼   ► It was one of the highlights of my entire trip to WWDC so I cannot wait to do it again

00:13:02 ◼   ► and I'm very happy that we're doing it again.

00:13:03 ◼   ► So if you want to be a highlight of Federico's trip, come get a ticket and hang out with

00:13:07 ◼   ► us in London.

00:13:09 ◼   ► We have limited availability and they're going to go quick so if you're listening to this

00:13:13 ◼   ► episode and you want to come click that link right now mm-hmm I will not be

00:13:18 ◼   ► there no that day is actually my 10 year wedding anniversary so we're

00:13:22 ◼   ► congratulations all around then it's yeah so you guys have your meetup can we

00:13:26 ◼   ► buy a ticket to that also even now okay moving on

00:13:35 ◼   ► - Are you buying listeners along to your dinner or anything?

00:13:38 ◼   ► Or no?

00:13:38 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:13:39 ◼   ► - No, real good.

00:13:40 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

00:13:41 ◼   ► We'll be at this bed and breakfast.

00:13:44 ◼   ► Please don't come.

00:13:44 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:13:46 ◼   ► - Yeah, we'll give you the link so you can stay away.

00:13:49 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:13:50 ◼   ► So we have sort of a mini topic before we get in,

00:13:56 ◼   ► and this has been floating in our document for a while,

00:13:58 ◼   ► so my apologies to listener Jessica.

00:14:01 ◼   ► She wrote this in weeks ago,

00:14:02 ◼   ► but we're finally getting to it,

00:14:03 ◼   ► And I thought it'd be an interesting conversation

00:14:05 ◼   ► in light of what we're gonna talk about today with iOS 11.

00:14:08 ◼   ► And so Jessica writes,

00:14:10 ◼   ► "What's going on with the iPod Touch?

00:14:11 ◼   ► "We have two in our household for the kids

00:14:14 ◼   ► "and they are aging."

00:14:15 ◼   ► I assume she means the iPod's Touch are aging

00:14:18 ◼   ► and not the kids, maybe both.

00:14:19 ◼   ► - Both, yeah.

00:14:21 ◼   ► - But we're not going to replace them,

00:14:22 ◼   ► again, hopefully talking about the iPod Touch,

00:14:24 ◼   ► but we're not going to replace them

00:14:25 ◼   ► with something last updated in 2015.

00:14:27 ◼   ► "It's got an AA chip, but is that good enough these days?

00:14:30 ◼   ► "Should we get that new cheap iPad and move on from this?

00:14:33 ◼   ► what's the deal Apple? So I agree with Jessica that this is weird. You know there's a $329

00:14:40 ◼   ► iPad. The iPod touch is older. It got that update but it's still like the smaller screen

00:14:48 ◼   ► size and cameras aren't as good and it just really seems like it's fallen from grace over

00:14:54 ◼   ► the years. What do you guys think?

00:15:00 ◼   ► I think that if you're interested in having this kind of device today, that you're better

00:15:06 ◼   ► placed with an iPad of some kind, I really don't think that the iPod touch is long for

00:15:11 ◼   ► this world, honestly.

00:15:12 ◼   ► I can't see it.

00:15:13 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:15:14 ◼   ► I mean, they are cheaper.

00:15:15 ◼   ► They can start at $199 for the 16 gig.

00:15:19 ◼   ► But I agree with you.

00:15:21 ◼   ► You know, when they first announced it, the world was very different, right?

00:15:25 ◼   ► The iPhone was basically only on AT&T and only in the United States.

00:15:29 ◼   ► that's not the case anymore. The iPhone is everywhere. The iPad didn't exist. It

00:15:33 ◼   ► exists now. And I think just those devices have really squeezed the iPod

00:15:37 ◼   ► Touch sort of out of the line almost. It's still around but it feels

00:15:42 ◼   ► like it's a legacy product and you know the days are gone where the iPod Touch

00:15:47 ◼   ► was as good as the newest iPhone all the time. I mean I'm looking at Mac Tracker

00:15:50 ◼   ► and they released an iPod Touch like every September for several years and

00:15:56 ◼   ► and then it just slowly, you know,

00:15:58 ◼   ► those gaps got wider and wider

00:15:59 ◼   ► and now it's been coming up on two years.

00:16:02 ◼   ► I think the moral of the story is probably don't buy one.

00:16:06 ◼   ► That's my thought.

00:16:07 ◼   ► That's what I would say.

00:16:08 ◼   ► - Yeah, I wouldn't buy an Apple Touch.

00:16:09 ◼   ► I mean, just get an iPad Mini, I guess.

00:16:13 ◼   ► What's the difference in price again?

00:16:15 ◼   ► - Yeah, the iPad Mini is like $399 or $499, I'm looking.

00:16:20 ◼   ► - If it's $399, that's, you know, $70 difference.

00:16:24 ◼   ► I mean, you get, you know, games would be bigger and the screen would be slightly bigger.

00:16:31 ◼   ► I mean not slightly but still not as huge as an iPad Pro.

00:16:37 ◼   ► I mean I wouldn't get an iPod Touch.

00:16:40 ◼   ► I would just reuse iPad Minis and maybe iPad Airs if you can maybe get a refurbished model

00:16:48 ◼   ► of those.

00:16:49 ◼   ► That's a good point.

00:16:50 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:16:51 ◼   ► had many I remember now they only sell one model it's the 128 gig for $399 and

00:16:56 ◼   ► so if you you know from the base iPod touch to the mini is a big jump but that

00:17:01 ◼   ► cheap iPad and like you said refurbished iPads are in there in the middle

00:17:05 ◼   ► somewhere yeah I think that's what you should probably do yes I think that's I

00:17:08 ◼   ► think that's our collective advice is say goodbye to the iPod touch yeah I

00:17:12 ◼   ► mean who knows right what they might end up doing with it but I'm just saying I

00:17:18 ◼   ► would be really surprised if it was anything other than silently going away.

00:17:22 ◼   ► Yeah. I mean you know another thing would be if you really like that size I'm

00:17:30 ◼   ► sure that you could probably get relatively cheap iPhones right like 5c's

00:17:35 ◼   ► and 5s's and stuff like that which might stick around for a little bit longer and

00:17:40 ◼   ► just you know just don't put SIM cards in them and you'll probably be okay.

00:17:43 ◼   ► Yeah, it's always a good option too. Well, we don't know, maybe listener Jessica, she's

00:17:49 ◼   ► a billionaire and she wants to buy iPhone 7s to the kids. That's true, you could do

00:17:53 ◼   ► that too. That could be, that could be. That is the billionaire's option. If you're a little

00:17:58 ◼   ► more price conscious, I would say go for a refurbished iPad and, you know, whether it's

00:18:04 ◼   ► a mini or an Air, it's still better than the 8, AA chip and the iPod touch. Do you mean

00:18:10 ◼   ► more price conscious than a billionaire.

00:18:12 ◼   ► Like I think they were the two options you were posing.

00:18:15 ◼   ► Either a billionaire or you're more price conscious.

00:18:17 ◼   ► - She could be a millionaire.

00:18:18 ◼   ► I mean, in my mind, you're either price conscious

00:18:21 ◼   ► or you're a billionaire, you know?

00:18:23 ◼   ► - No middle class.

00:18:26 ◼   ► - That's a way of looking at it.

00:18:27 ◼   ► - What's the middle class anyway?

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00:20:09 ◼   ► Alright, so Mr. Federico Vittucci, you have gone ahead and done it again and created an

00:20:17 ◼   ► iOS concept video.

00:20:19 ◼   ► Now this is something you did for the first time last year, right?

00:20:22 ◼   ► Yes, the concept video and the mockups were the change from last year with iOS 10.

00:20:30 ◼   ► For context, I've been doing my annual iOS wishlist since the days of iOS 6, so when

00:20:36 ◼   ► when iOS 5 was the current OS, I published my first article in this series called iOS

00:20:42 ◼   ► 6 Wishes that was 2012 and I've been doing this since for every iOS version. Last year

00:20:48 ◼   ► with iOS 10, in addition to my wishlist, we also did a concept video to visualize the

00:20:56 ◼   ► wishes themselves and to sort of give people a better idea of what I had in mind. And this

00:21:01 ◼   ► we've done it again. There's a new concept video. We're talking about iOS 11 of course,

00:21:07 ◼   ► but the twist is because I feel that the iPad is more behind than the iPhone in terms of

00:21:14 ◼   ► attention and in terms of power, you know, power user features. This year my iOS 11 wishes

00:21:20 ◼   ► and concept video are all about the iPad and the future of the iPad.

00:21:24 ◼   ► And I guess at this point right now we're all pretty confident that and hoping but also

00:21:31 ◼   ► a little bit confident that this will be Apple's tact as well, right? That the iPad's going

00:21:35 ◼   ► to get some serious love at WWDC.

00:21:37 ◼   ► I think so. And I know, you know, it's almost like multiple people seem to know this and

00:21:44 ◼   ► to agree upon this, that iPad features were supposed to come out earlier than the situation

00:21:50 ◼   ► that we're in right now, which is basically it's two years since iOS 9 and almost, you

00:21:55 ◼   ► know, over a year and a half after the original iPad Pro. And it wasn't supposed to be this

00:21:59 ◼   ► long but whatever happened now we're at the stage where WWDC is upon us and

00:22:04 ◼   ► maybe there's going to be a visual refresh of iOS you know in general on

00:22:08 ◼   ► the iPhone and the iPad but really Apple is gonna have some iPad love to share at WWDC.

00:22:14 ◼   ► There was something that you said in your article that I really liked you

00:22:18 ◼   ► said iOS for iPhone is I believe at a point of sufficient maturity the iPad

00:22:23 ◼   ► that now bears the proverbial low hanging fruit of iOS?

00:22:28 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, I find that hard to disagree.

00:22:32 ◼   ► If you consider the iPhone and iPad advancing simultaneously, you could say that the iPhone

00:22:38 ◼   ► is at least a couple of years ahead of the iPad.

00:22:43 ◼   ► If you look back at iOS 9, there was the point when Apple stopped, I don't want to say caring

00:22:48 ◼   ► about the iPad, but making features and designs and, you know, thinking about iPad users as

00:22:58 ◼   ► a different type of users than the iPhone average customer.

00:23:03 ◼   ► And over the past two years, the iPhone has advanced with iOS 10, we got some amazing

00:23:08 ◼   ► features for the iPhone and, you know, we got the iMessage, for example, was clearly

00:23:13 ◼   ► optimized for the iPhone, the stickers.

00:23:15 ◼   ► Initially they didn't even work on the iPad in SplitView.

00:23:18 ◼   ► Instead, we didn't get any iPad only feature, because I think the main difference here to

00:23:25 ◼   ► bring up is it doesn't matter if Apple releases the same option on both platforms, and they're

00:23:31 ◼   ► going to say, "Well, this amazing iPhone feature also works on the iPad."

00:23:36 ◼   ► Because I think iPad users need and deserve some iPad only and iPad first functionality

00:23:43 ◼   ► that truly takes advantage of the bigger screen and the different type of device.

00:23:47 ◼   ► Otherwise, every feature, every design is just going to be an adaptation from the iPhone.

00:23:53 ◼   ► And so I think there's so much more potential to change things on the iPad.

00:23:59 ◼   ► And there's so much, and this is a point that I make in the story, there's so much missing

00:24:04 ◼   ► functionality really from the iPad.

00:24:06 ◼   ► The iPhone you could argue, well, Apple is going to do something new, maybe a new design,

00:24:11 ◼   ► some new system apps, but you cannot really say, "Well, this is absolutely missing from

00:24:16 ◼   ► the iPhone."

00:24:18 ◼   ► And I feel like the same is not true for the iPad.

00:24:20 ◼   ► There's stuff that is clearly missing from the iPad right now.

00:24:25 ◼   ► So let me play devil's advocate for just a second.

00:24:28 ◼   ► I agree with you.

00:24:29 ◼   ► I think the iPhone point in particular is very well said, and I think it would benefit

00:24:35 ◼   ► Apple to treat the iPhone and iPad more independently of each other.

00:24:40 ◼   ► maybe not as far as splitting the OS but like really focusing on them as what

00:24:45 ◼   ► they are. But as the resident Mac user on the show before I lost Myke I just I

00:24:52 ◼   ► can't help but think that that iPad users are being a little bit finicky

00:24:58 ◼   ► with some of the stuff that yeah it's been two years but this stuff takes time

00:25:05 ◼   ► and I was just thinking back over the course of OS X's life and you know iOS

00:25:12 ◼   ► is now 10 years old and it is not as far along as Mac OS X was but Mac OS X had

00:25:19 ◼   ► a head start right and and I think that someone looking at the two of you saying

00:25:25 ◼   ► well this is ridiculous you guys are spoiled like quit whining it's only been

00:25:29 ◼   ► two years the Mac's not getting this sort of attention anymore I don't think

00:25:34 ◼   ► that's fair of those people and and they're my people they're my people

00:25:38 ◼   ► saying it but I think it's unfair because the Mac got a head start right

00:25:43 ◼   ► the Mac was built upon next step and stuff from the classic Mac OS and so you

00:25:49 ◼   ► have things like copy and paste out of the box and and I was sad to add that it

00:25:54 ◼   ► took them two years and they finally did it in iOS 3 but I just think as we move

00:25:59 ◼   ► forward if you are a Mac user listening to this and you think that Federico and

00:26:03 ◼   ► micro being silly for complaining that it's been two years since I've gotten an

00:26:06 ◼   ► update then I don't I just don't think that's fair because iOS is still a young

00:26:13 ◼   ► OS the Mac is much more mature and this is a something micro in the show notes

00:26:19 ◼   ► so I'm gonna steal it that it would be difficult for us to sit down and make a

00:26:23 ◼   ► list of needed features and improvements like this for Mac OS I mean I've been

00:26:28 ◼   ► working on like a Mac OS 10.13 wish list it'd be honest with you guys like it's

00:26:33 ◼   ► it's pretty short. Like the Mac is mature and stable and most of the stuff I want on

00:26:39 ◼   ► that list is actually like dialing back some of the new stuff or like tweaking stuff they've

00:26:43 ◼   ► added but the core is good. Whereas iOS is younger and has more room to grow because

00:26:48 ◼   ► of it. So I just kind of wanted to clear the deck if people are thinking that because I

00:26:52 ◼   ► think it's a little unfair. I think it's a valid point. I just disagree with the premise

00:26:59 ◼   ► is that it's only been two years,

00:27:00 ◼   ► especially from a company that tries to sell the iPad

00:27:03 ◼   ► as the future, and then you stop for two years.

00:27:07 ◼   ► That's a very long time.

00:27:08 ◼   ► If you truly believe that something

00:27:10 ◼   ► is the future of computing,

00:27:11 ◼   ► and it's not like we're talking about some, you know,

00:27:14 ◼   ► low profile startup with some small team working on this.

00:27:19 ◼   ► We're talking about Apple and the CEO going out and saying,

00:27:22 ◼   ► well, we believe this is the future

00:27:23 ◼   ► of computing for everyone.

00:27:25 ◼   ► And I just struggled to reconcile those statements

00:27:29 ◼   ► with two years of effectively pause on the iPad software.

00:27:33 ◼   ► And I know that this stuff takes time.

00:27:35 ◼   ► So it's not the end of the world.

00:27:38 ◼   ► It's not like Apple didn't ship features for the iPad

00:27:40 ◼   ► and now we're all upset and we're gonna switch to Linux.

00:27:43 ◼   ► That is not the case, but it's also,

00:27:45 ◼   ► it needs to be said that it's been two years

00:27:48 ◼   ► and it is time for something new.

00:27:50 ◼   ► And I know that Mac users have been waiting for longer

00:27:55 ◼   ► But it's also much more... I think it's been around for a long time and, like you said,

00:28:00 ◼   ► it's hard to come up with new ideas and wishes of things that are missing from the Mac because

00:28:05 ◼   ► it's so mature at this point.

00:28:07 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, something as simple as... well, not as simple, but something as sort of basic

00:28:12 ◼   ► as window management, and we're getting ready to get into this with some of the Split View

00:28:17 ◼   ► stuff, but if you look at the Mac, Apple introduced Spaces and Exposé years ago.

00:28:25 ◼   ► I think Exposé was like 10.3 or 10.4 and the Spaces was in Leopard and now they sort

00:28:30 ◼   ► of like smashed all that into Mission Control and they redid Mission Control and they need

00:28:34 ◼   ► to redo it again because it's still not really good.

00:28:37 ◼   ► But they're sort of like taking the pieces they already have and rearranging them where

00:28:41 ◼   ► iOS, they need to bring some of that stuff to it in the first place, right?

00:28:45 ◼   ► The split view was a good first step,

00:28:46 ◼   ► but they need to move beyond that now.

00:28:49 ◼   ► So I just think it's not an apples to apples comparison

00:28:52 ◼   ► between the two operating systems.

00:28:55 ◼   ► - And also, all of the stuff that we're gonna talk about,

00:28:57 ◼   ► all of the stuff that Federico has written about,

00:29:00 ◼   ► is just new ways, new ideas of doing things

00:29:03 ◼   ► that already exist on desktop platforms.

00:29:06 ◼   ► Reimagining some concepts for how they would work

00:29:09 ◼   ► on a touch interface to get work done.

00:29:13 ◼   ► These aren't like brand new pie in the sky things for the most part.

00:29:18 ◼   ► It's like finding ways to bring needed features to iOS that currently exist in MacOS and in Windows.

00:29:26 ◼   ► So it's not, you know, we're like give us feature parity.

00:29:31 ◼   ► It's what we want. Or concepts, right? Like the concepts.

00:29:34 ◼   ► So like drag and drop, which is the first one we're going to talk about.

00:29:37 ◼   ► Like there isn't a way to drag and drop something from thing to thing in iOS.

00:29:42 ◼   ► from app to app, from app to file system,

00:29:45 ◼   ► or anything like this, this doesn't exist.

00:29:47 ◼   ► And boy would it be nice.

00:29:49 ◼   ► So let's talk about it.

00:29:50 ◼   ► Federico, you conceive of an idea of drag and drop.

00:29:54 ◼   ► So kind of from your perspective,

00:29:56 ◼   ► what do you think that drag and drop looks like on iOS?

00:30:00 ◼   ► - This is the feature that we also showcased last year

00:30:04 ◼   ► in the iOS 10 concept video.

00:30:05 ◼   ► And this year we had time to refine the idea

00:30:09 ◼   ► and to maybe consider all of the implications.

00:30:11 ◼   ► So the basic idea is it should be super simple and it should be intuitive for users.

00:30:19 ◼   ► Imagine Split View for example, you have two apps open at the same time and you want to

00:30:23 ◼   ► get some text or maybe an image from the app on the left to the app on the right.

00:30:29 ◼   ► Right now there's really no easy way or intuitive way to do that on iOS 10.

00:30:33 ◼   ► You either have to copy the image to the clipboard and then paste in the other app.

00:30:38 ◼   ► it works, other times it doesn't work, or you need to use an extension. So you need

00:30:43 ◼   ► to go through a bunch of different places and sort of rely on workarounds to move data.

00:30:50 ◼   ► With drag and drop, I feel like the obvious solution would be you just hold down on the

00:30:54 ◼   ► text that you want to move or the image that you want to bring into the other app, and

00:30:59 ◼   ► you just move it. You just drag it there. You grab it, you move it, and you drop it.

00:31:03 ◼   ► And I feel like Apple nailed this idea decades ago on the Mac and it's been around since

00:31:10 ◼   ► forever.

00:31:11 ◼   ► I think actually Jeff Raskin invented the click and drag behavior on the original Macintosh.

00:31:18 ◼   ► And it's a proven, it's a solid idea that I feel a lot of people say, "Well, drag and

00:31:23 ◼   ► drop, it's a desktop feature, it's made for the mouse, it doesn't make sense on a mobile

00:31:27 ◼   ► touchscreen."

00:31:28 ◼   ► And I think the argument doesn't make any sense because if you think about it, on desktop

00:31:33 ◼   ► you're using an abstraction, a metaphor of your hand, which is the trackpad and the mouse cursor on the screen,

00:31:40 ◼   ► to select objects and move them around.

00:31:43 ◼   ► And now you ask, you could actually hold the objects on the screen and swipe physically with your finger

00:31:48 ◼   ► to move data around. And so that's the simplest implementation.

00:31:52 ◼   ► But then in the concept and in the article I explained, you know, maybe you don't want to drop an item into an app right away,

00:32:02 ◼   ► maybe you want to save it for later, or maybe you don't know the app that you want to drop it in,

00:32:07 ◼   ► so you want to open the multitasking switcher and select an app icon while you are already holding an item.

00:32:13 ◼   ► And of course there are multiple types of items that you could drag, you know, text and images are obvious,

00:32:18 ◼   ► but what about the PDF document? What about a Safari web page? Or what if you want to drag and drop a location from maps?

00:32:25 ◼   ► So there's this whole system that will require a framework, like a system-wide framework and an API from Apple.

00:32:32 ◼   ► it's a big effort to support multiple content types and to tell developers,

00:32:38 ◼   ► "Here's an API, here's how your app can support these two methods." Allowing the

00:32:45 ◼   ► users to hold down and select a piece of content and being able for your app to

00:32:51 ◼   ► receive content that is dropped by the user. There are multiple implications and

00:32:57 ◼   ► it's super difficult if you think about the technical aspects. I went

00:33:00 ◼   ► back and I actually tried to read the document of, I think it was called

00:33:05 ◼   ► Drag Manager on System 7. It's a PDF that is still available on apple.com for some

00:33:09 ◼   ► reason. And to give you the idea that this is stuff that Apple has been

00:33:14 ◼   ► thinking about for a long time. Apple, back in the System 7 days, they referred

00:33:19 ◼   ► to item flavors. So for example, if you have an item that is text, text can have

00:33:24 ◼   ► multiple flavors. It can be plain text or it can be rich text. If it's rich text,

00:33:29 ◼   ► Maybe it's got some formatting, so you got to account for that.

00:33:32 ◼   ► And there are all these different variables

00:33:34 ◼   ► that if you enable drag and drop,

00:33:36 ◼   ► so if you enable this direct communication between two apps,

00:33:40 ◼   ► you got to have effectively a language to let those apps

00:33:45 ◼   ► understand each other.

00:33:46 ◼   ► So hopefully there will be an API

00:33:49 ◼   ► and there will be a modernized implementation of this stuff

00:33:53 ◼   ► that Apple has been doing for over 20 years, basically.

00:33:55 ◼   ► I want to come back to the developer point in a second,

00:33:58 ◼   ► but there's something that I want to drill down on,

00:33:59 ◼   ► which I think is really interesting,

00:34:01 ◼   ► which is the idea of multi-touch, right?

00:34:02 ◼   ► And you've kind of, you've glossed on it a couple of times.

00:34:07 ◼   ► It's the idea of like, if you imagine two apps in split view

00:34:09 ◼   ► and you have notes on one side

00:34:11 ◼   ► and you have a webpage on the other

00:34:12 ◼   ► and you want to drag an image from a webpage,

00:34:16 ◼   ► if you were doing this, you know,

00:34:17 ◼   ► and you could like, you could pick it up

00:34:20 ◼   ► and you could drag it, you could hold it down the bottom

00:34:22 ◼   ► and it starts to scroll, right?

00:34:24 ◼   ► But what you would be able to do on iOS

00:34:26 ◼   ► is you could just, you could scroll the other application

00:34:30 ◼   ► with your other hand, right?

00:34:32 ◼   ► Like the idea of being able to like pinch and zoom

00:34:34 ◼   ► and move around whilst you're holding a piece of content,

00:34:37 ◼   ► continuing to manipulate the screen.

00:34:39 ◼   ► You could go to the home screen,

00:34:41 ◼   ► you're still holding it with your other hand.

00:34:42 ◼   ► You could pick another app, you can drop it in.

00:34:44 ◼   ► Like the idea of having effectively multiple cursors

00:34:48 ◼   ► on screen is really nice, right?

00:34:51 ◼   ► And I'm sure you'd be able to do like what you can do

00:34:52 ◼   ► on macOS, let's say you could pick up a file,

00:34:56 ◼   ► hold it, wait for the file to open, drop it in, right? That kind of thing.

00:34:59 ◼   ► But on iOS,

00:35:01 ◼   ► you could actually be manipulating all of that stuff manually and quicker

00:35:04 ◼   ► because you're able to tap around. And I think that that is,

00:35:07 ◼   ► that is a very compelling idea for me. Um, I, one thing that I really,

00:35:12 ◼   ► really hope for and that I get concerned about when I think about this is I

00:35:15 ◼   ► really, really,

00:35:16 ◼   ► really want there to be the ability to drag and drop files and not just content.

00:35:21 ◼   ► Right? Like files is a, is a really important one.

00:35:25 ◼   ► and I do foresee a world in which drag and drop is launched without that

00:35:31 ◼   ► and it's just content to start, like I can see that

00:35:34 ◼   ► but I really hope that they do the whole shebang

00:35:37 ◼   ► I want to come back to the developers though

00:35:39 ◼   ► this is the risk for me, this is the real risk point about

00:35:43 ◼   ► if they're going to do this right, there needs to be APIs

00:35:47 ◼   ► and as you say, would require explicit adoption

00:35:50 ◼   ► application developers would need to write the stuff to make this happen

00:35:53 ◼   ► this happen so content can be shared from app to app.

00:35:57 ◼   ► You know, and like with document pickers,

00:35:59 ◼   ► applications can say what types of files they can accept

00:36:02 ◼   ► and stuff like that.

00:36:04 ◼   ► If you look at Split View, and how long it took companies

00:36:08 ◼   ► to adopt Split View, if at all, with their iPad apps,

00:36:12 ◼   ► this is where I start to worry about the adoption rates

00:36:15 ◼   ► for these types of features.

00:36:17 ◼   ► - Well, the good news maybe is that

00:36:22 ◼   ► while Split View was a massive problem for some companies such as Google that relied on

00:36:28 ◼   ► custom interface frameworks and had to redraw their entire UIs and to make them work and support

00:36:38 ◼   ► the size classes on iPad. Whereas I think if Apple wants to do a drag and drop API they should take

00:36:46 ◼   ► most of the work away from the developers. So Apple should have their own system, their own language

00:36:52 ◼   ► that can understand content types. So there needs to be a system that the developer doesn't have to

00:37:00 ◼   ► build it. The developer needs to be able to say "look, this is some text, there you go, do whatever

00:37:05 ◼   ► you want with it" or "this is a text field in my app, it supports rich text and plain text, now I'm

00:37:12 ◼   ► I'm just gonna wait for some text to be dropped and then I'm gonna take care of that.

00:37:16 ◼   ► But the system that lets two apps communicate, that needs to be provided by Apple.

00:37:22 ◼   ► And so in theory, at least in my mind, I'm not a developer and I'm just trying to make reasonable assumptions as to how this could work.

00:37:34 ◼   ► But I imagine there should be a layer in the middle that is made by Apple that says,

00:37:40 ◼   ► "Well, I'm looking at an image right now, and it's a photo that comes from Safari, it's a JPEG, it's a two megabyte object,

00:37:48 ◼   ► and on this other end there's a text editor, and the user is about to drop an image into a text editor. What do I do?"

00:37:56 ◼   ► the system, the API provided by Apple and iOS should say, well, you know, an image cannot be plain text.

00:38:04 ◼   ► So I'm just going to assume that maybe the user wants to insert the link to the image from the web,

00:38:10 ◼   ► or maybe if the image is not, you know, a photo from a web page, but what if it's a photo from an email client,

00:38:16 ◼   ► it doesn't have a link, well, let's just use the file name of the image in plain text.

00:38:21 ◼   ► So this abstraction, this communication, this translation occurring between two apps, that

00:38:26 ◼   ► must be done by Apple and that shouldn't be work that the developers need to account for.

00:38:32 ◼   ► But still, there should be an API for developers to integrate with this and that is where your

00:38:38 ◼   ► concern might come in.

00:38:40 ◼   ► How long is it going to take Google to allow users to select some text in Google Docs and

00:38:45 ◼   ► drop it into Apple Mail?

00:38:49 ◼   ► Or is Microsoft gonna take two months

00:38:52 ◼   ► to enable dropping of images and videos into OneNote?

00:38:56 ◼   ► That I'm afraid I cannot answer for you.

00:39:00 ◼   ► - I think the idea of having a piece of content

00:39:03 ◼   ► and then manipulating the OS underneath it

00:39:06 ◼   ► is really interesting.

00:39:07 ◼   ► On the Mac, you can click down and have a text document

00:39:12 ◼   ► and then, I'm looking at my keyboard,

00:39:15 ◼   ► You can hit F3 to go into Mission Control and then drag that piece of content on top

00:39:19 ◼   ► of any open app and if it can open it then it opens it and if it can't then it can't

00:39:27 ◼   ► but this is an area where they can break from the phone.

00:39:31 ◼   ► The phone is one app at a time and most of the time one handed but the iPad is not that

00:39:37 ◼   ► way.

00:39:38 ◼   ► You can have it on your desk or you can have it in the keyboard case and you can use both

00:39:42 ◼   ► hands with it.

00:39:43 ◼   ► I think it's a really interesting example of taking something from the desktop world

00:39:48 ◼   ► and the fundamentals are the same, but changing the interaction so it's touch native.

00:39:55 ◼   ► And I don't know, I like that you led with this in the article because I think it's the

00:39:58 ◼   ► best example of that.

00:40:00 ◼   ► Something we all understand and know and use every day on our computers that run desktop

00:40:04 ◼   ► OSes, but our computers that run mobile OSes, we can't do it, and a way to kind of bridge

00:40:09 ◼   ► that divide.

00:40:10 ◼   ► I think you've done a good job explaining it and showing it in the video for sure.

00:40:14 ◼   ► Yeah, and look, this is stuff again that it's going to sound so obvious to long-time Mac users or Windows users

00:40:21 ◼   ► that DOS is able to account for those scenarios where the drag and drop leads you to unexpected places,

00:40:27 ◼   ► such as dropping an image into an address bar or doing some conversions from rich text to plain text.

00:40:35 ◼   ► This is obvious on Mac OS, but it still hasn't been done on iOS.

00:40:40 ◼   ► And it will require so many additions.

00:40:43 ◼   ► Even if you simply consider rich text

00:40:46 ◼   ► that doesn't have a real framework on iOS

00:40:49 ◼   ► and that still cannot handle basic stuff

00:40:51 ◼   ► like let me paste a table in an email client

00:40:55 ◼   ► or allow me to keep my formatting

00:40:58 ◼   ► as I copy and paste text between apps.

00:41:00 ◼   ► So there's so much work that Apple should be doing here.

00:41:05 ◼   ► And that could be the reason why it's taking them two years

00:41:07 ◼   ► because it's a very complex system.

00:41:09 ◼   ► It's a very complex feature and I assume it's gonna be a very complex API, but it's not impossible.

00:41:16 ◼   ► It's been done before.

00:41:17 ◼   ► It could be updated for the era of touch and multi-touch especially.

00:41:23 ◼   ► And even if you look, for example, this is a footnote in my story, but Apple just acquired

00:41:31 ◼   ► a company that made an app based on an engine called Content Graph that its very main feature

00:41:38 ◼   ► was I'm able to understand multiple content types and to automatically translate them.

00:41:45 ◼   ► And that was the core feature of Workflow. Now, I don't think that Workflow was acquired

00:41:50 ◼   ► to power drag and drop, but it sure is nice to have the expertise of a team now at Apple

00:41:56 ◼   ► that truly understands this stuff.

00:42:00 ◼   ► So you took drag and drop one step further than you did last year with the idea of the

00:42:06 ◼   ► shelf? What is the shelf? So the idea is the shelf is a temporary place to hold

00:42:13 ◼   ► something for later and this super generic description is meant to be

00:42:19 ◼   ► generic because the shelf is not meant to be an app or a location in iCloud

00:42:26 ◼   ► Drive. Think about this, when you use drag and drop on the Mac and you want to

00:42:31 ◼   ► quickly store something for later because you don't know right away where

00:42:35 ◼   ► whether it's text or a photo or a link, should go. Usually most people, I would argue,

00:42:42 ◼   ► they just drop it onto the desktop or anywhere else in the Finder. And that's a

00:42:47 ◼   ► great feature of the Mac because you can just take something and be "okay I'm not

00:42:51 ◼   ► sure what to do with it, I just know that I'm gonna need it later at some point, so

00:42:55 ◼   ► let me just drop it there". It's like leaving something on the table as a

00:42:58 ◼   ► reminder. And if you consider bringing drag-and-drop to iOS, it just made sense

00:43:04 ◼   ► to me to have this kind of transient dock, if you will, where you can just drop stuff and take care of it later.

00:43:15 ◼   ► So we imagined this feature as you start drag and drop, you select something and you start dragging.

00:43:23 ◼   ► But if you go over the upper section of the screen, there's this shelf that comes down and reveals all of these slots.

00:43:33 ◼   ► slots. It's like a tray where you can drop stuff and you drop an item, the shelf closes again,

00:43:40 ◼   ► and now that item has been temporarily archived. Now, you know, maybe a few minutes pass, maybe a

00:43:45 ◼   ► couple of hours pass, you remember that you clipped an item into the shelf, now you're writing an

00:43:50 ◼   ► email message, you need that PDF or that image again, just open the shelf with a three-finger

00:43:55 ◼   ► swipe, you grab the item again and you bring it into your email message or pages document or,

00:44:02 ◼   ► you know, note, whatever. It's a way to sort of marry the simplicity of drag and drop with a way to

00:44:11 ◼   ► taking the burden of having to decide right now where something should go from the user.

00:44:21 ◼   ► It's a way to let them quickly archive, store, whatever you want to define it for later,

00:44:28 ◼   ► and take it back when they need it.

00:44:30 ◼   ► And I'm not sure that this is something that Apple is going to do this year,

00:44:35 ◼   ► but I continue to think that it makes sense to me

00:44:39 ◼   ► to have something like this to help you doing drag and drop on iOS.

00:44:43 ◼   ► Because there's no desktop, there's a home screen,

00:44:45 ◼   ► but do you really want stuff on your home screen?

00:44:47 ◼   ► I think a shelf would be much more elegant.

00:44:50 ◼   ► Yeah, I really like the fact that you can,

00:44:52 ◼   ► you know, the idea that you would be able to access it anywhere

00:44:56 ◼   ► with the three-finger swipe.

00:44:57 ◼   ► I think that's a really, really key part of it.

00:45:00 ◼   ► - Yeah, and again, it's taking an idea,

00:45:05 ◼   ► but updating it, right?

00:45:07 ◼   ► Something like DragThing,

00:45:10 ◼   ► or you can even do this with Apple's dock, kind of.

00:45:14 ◼   ► - Kind of, yeah.

00:45:15 ◼   ► - Or a lot of people, like I do,

00:45:16 ◼   ► have folders in their dock,

00:45:18 ◼   ► so I have Dropbox and I have downloads in my folders,

00:45:21 ◼   ► in my dock, and I quickly get things in and out of them.

00:45:26 ◼   ► But yeah, I mean, that's, that's kind of a complaint I have now with iOS.

00:45:30 ◼   ► And I've spoken with this before that if I go to make a PDF to upload to the web,

00:45:33 ◼   ► I've got to put it somewhere, right?

00:45:35 ◼   ► I've got to upload to iCloud or exact sentence of Dropbox or put it in documents.

00:45:40 ◼   ► Like I got to put it somewhere.

00:45:41 ◼   ► And if this is a way to kind of like stick a file somewhere temporarily and

00:45:46 ◼   ► then come back and get it, it can make that workflow much faster without having

00:45:49 ◼   ► to go out to the document provider and then back in.

00:45:53 ◼   ► And I think absolutely if drag and drop

00:45:56 ◼   ► and these other features are coming,

00:45:59 ◼   ► this is sort of part of it,

00:46:00 ◼   ► it's part of the same system of,

00:46:03 ◼   ► hey, I've got something, I need to move it somewhere.

00:46:05 ◼   ► And sometimes that means I need a temporary resting place,

00:46:07 ◼   ► like you said. - Yes.

00:46:08 ◼   ► - Sometimes I don't know quite where it's going.

00:46:10 ◼   ► Or for me, I keep my desktop very clean right now.

00:46:15 ◼   ► The only thing on it is a text file

00:46:18 ◼   ► where I'm keeping up with titles for the show

00:46:20 ◼   ► since we're not live this week.

00:46:22 ◼   ► It's the only thing on it.

00:46:22 ◼   ► And I know that because it's on my desktop it's important and when I'm done with it it

00:46:26 ◼   ► will go away.

00:46:27 ◼   ► And I think some people would use the shelf like I do, like I use my desktop.

00:46:31 ◼   ► And other people of course are going to have 10,000 things in it so Apple needs to make

00:46:34 ◼   ► sure that it scales better than iMessage apps did last year.

00:46:37 ◼   ► But it's a really interesting idea to have a space in iOS as a little temporary holding

00:46:43 ◼   ► bin that you can come back to later.

00:46:45 ◼   ► Yeah, and we try to think of ways to minimize management.

00:46:51 ◼   ► So for example, we imagined you could tap on an item that's been already saved in the

00:46:56 ◼   ► shelf to maybe have a quick look preview of the item before saying, "Well, I know that

00:47:02 ◼   ► I clipped this PDF, but what's it really about again?"

00:47:05 ◼   ► So you can just tap it again, you see a preview, and then you can decide what to do.

00:47:09 ◼   ► Or for example, if you saved a location or like an address from Apple Maps, you could

00:47:14 ◼   ► preview the location directly from the shelf with a tiny, quick look model preview, and

00:47:20 ◼   ► then you could do things and if you follow that idea that maybe developers

00:47:24 ◼   ► could provide their own Quick Look extensions. So for example, let's say that

00:47:28 ◼   ► I want to add a sheet from Ulysses into the Shelf. Really, what is a sheet?

00:47:33 ◼   ► It's not like an open file format. So maybe the Ulysses folks, they could

00:47:37 ◼   ► provide a Quick Look extension that says if the user clips a sheet from the app

00:47:42 ◼   ► into the Shelf, we can provide our own preview to the Quick Look panel and so

00:47:47 ◼   ► the user can still preview the sheet outside of Ulysses and from the shelf

00:47:52 ◼   ► and there will be for example a way to expand the shelf and to select all of

00:47:56 ◼   ► the items and sort of purge everything and delete all. I try to think of

00:48:01 ◼   ► multiple ways to sort of enhance the shelf and to have these little shortcuts

00:48:05 ◼   ► without having to make it too complex or too complicated.

00:48:10 ◼   ► So one very obvious set of features would be a redesign to the split view app

00:48:16 ◼   ► picker which was you know it was an incredible thing like split for you and

00:48:22 ◼   ► it still is to a point right like split for you is what made the iPad a viable

00:48:26 ◼   ► work machine for me like it brought me to the platform and it keeps me there

00:48:30 ◼   ► like as I was right I was writing these show notes in split view right like

00:48:34 ◼   ► Google Docs on one side and I had the web browser on another side right like

00:48:38 ◼   ► it's exactly what I need right it does if it fills the job but it has a it has

00:48:44 ◼   ► some room to grow now that it's kind of gotten a little bit long in the tooth.

00:48:47 ◼   ► And this is a list of the enhancements that you suggested from your article.

00:48:53 ◼   ► So to be able to arrange the most used applications that you have on a grid, similar to like a

00:48:59 ◼   ► mini home screen that would appear when you invoke a split view, an integrated spotlight

00:49:04 ◼   ► so you could search for applications or maybe even content, right?

00:49:07 ◼   ► So you'd be able to just open that straight up.

00:49:09 ◼   ► The picker view could be displayed on either side of the screen, which would be really

00:49:15 ◼   ► great so you could pull it in from the left or the right.

00:49:18 ◼   ► Recently used applications could be displayed at the bottom of the picker as like cards

00:49:22 ◼   ► so it's easier to recent.

00:49:23 ◼   ► So what it currently is is basically like a version of recents, right?

00:49:26 ◼   ► But to still have that but to minimize it and have also a system where you could choose

00:49:31 ◼   ► what you want to be showing.

00:49:33 ◼   ► Spring loading for items that are passed via drag and drop.

00:49:36 ◼   ► you could drag and drop to something in splitview and it opens the application right you just

00:49:40 ◼   ► hover over the app and the splitview picker could be invoked and navigated with an external

00:49:46 ◼   ► keyboard I would praise the Lord if they enabled that honestly so this is kind of like a good

00:49:54 ◼   ► breakdown of the features and I think this is all of these things are clear to me as

00:50:03 ◼   ► they are to you Federico as someone who gets their work done on this device every day to

00:50:07 ◼   ► the point where like if we don't get at least most of these I will be really really surprised.

00:50:15 ◼   ► Yeah again I try to sort of modernize and think more deeply about what we did last year.

00:50:25 ◼   ► This idea of you can have a grid of icons and you can have your recent apps. We already

00:50:30 ◼   ► We explored the idea last year, but we tried to make it a little prettier maybe, you know,

00:50:35 ◼   ► with the way that the recents go at the bottom, it's like a scrollable tray, and it matches

00:50:39 ◼   ► the same order of recent apps from the multitasking switcher, the one that you get if you double

00:50:44 ◼   ► click the home button, that would be the same order of recent apps, and then you have this

00:50:48 ◼   ► mini home screen that by default I imagine it could be the same layout of the actual

00:50:53 ◼   ► home screen, but then you can modify, you can drag items in different order if you want

00:50:57 ◼   ► to have a specific placement in Split View, for example.

00:51:00 ◼   ► And we try to account even for the potential problems that this concept would have, not

00:51:05 ◼   ► just the changes and the good stuff, but also the bad stuff.

00:51:09 ◼   ► If you can show the Split View picker on both sides, what happens if you have the same app

00:51:15 ◼   ► on two sides?

00:51:16 ◼   ► And so we thought maybe if the user already has notes, for example, Apple Notes, open

00:51:21 ◼   ► on the left side, and the user opens the Split View picker on the right side, the notes icon

00:51:27 ◼   ► should be dimmed, it shouldn't be selectable or tappable because it's

00:51:30 ◼   ► already open. So we try to account for all these potential problems and then we

00:51:34 ◼   ► thought, you know, it makes sense to support drag and drop with this system.

00:51:38 ◼   ► If the user starts dragging and they don't have an app open or they want to

00:51:42 ◼   ► switch apps, we have multi-touch, we have drag and drop, why not, you know, bring in

00:51:46 ◼   ► drag and drop to the Split View Picker? So we thought there should be two ways to

00:51:51 ◼   ► do this. Either you drop something into an app icon and then the app provides a

00:51:55 ◼   ► quick action menu or you spring load the app icon and the app opens and you

00:52:01 ◼   ► scroll to whatever you want to drop an item into. And the quick action

00:52:05 ◼   ► idea is we add in the video an example. You select some bullet list from an

00:52:12 ◼   ► email message. So by the way we came up with this concept of the video. It's

00:52:17 ◼   ► about planning a vacation to Barcelona. We had the idea of instead of showing a

00:52:22 ◼   ► bunch of distinct standalone features. Let's try to have like a day in the life

00:52:27 ◼   ► sort of theme for the video. So we're showing someone how the better iPad

00:52:33 ◼   ► software could help this family plan a vacation to Barcelona. And so at some

00:52:38 ◼   ► point in the video there's this email message and a member of the family is

00:52:42 ◼   ► reminding everyone to bring sunscreen and the iPhone charger and the adapter

00:52:47 ◼   ► cable and so we show the user selecting those lines of text, dropping them on

00:52:52 ◼   ► onto the Reminders icon in the Split View Picker.

00:52:55 ◼   ► And Reminders parses these lines of text

00:52:58 ◼   ► and shows a quick action menu that says,

00:53:00 ◼   ► I found four items.

00:53:02 ◼   ► Do you want to add those four new reminders to your list?

00:53:06 ◼   ► So it's stuff like that, you know,

00:53:08 ◼   ► to enhance the Split View Picker,

00:53:11 ◼   ► not just with the redesign interface,

00:53:12 ◼   ► but also with support for other system features,

00:53:15 ◼   ► whether it's drag and drop or extensions

00:53:17 ◼   ► or, you know, keyboard navigation.

00:53:20 ◼   ► I think if Apple does this,

00:53:21 ◼   ► they should just support everything because,

00:53:24 ◼   ► especially for iPad Pro, it's right there in the name.

00:53:27 ◼   ► You want to help pro users, this is how you help pro users.

00:53:30 ◼   ► - All right, let's take our second break for this week

00:53:34 ◼   ► and thank SMILE for their support of this show.

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00:55:38 ◼   ► from Smile for their support of this show. So Federico, finder on iOS. This is a bold

00:55:48 ◼   ► idea.

00:55:49 ◼   ► >> Yeah.

00:55:50 ◼   ► >> Oh gosh.

00:55:51 ◼   ► >> Yeah. I think that, you know, there's people that say the iPad or iOS really, they don't

00:56:00 ◼   ► need a file system and I think that idea sort of lost all of its value years ago

00:56:05 ◼   ► when Apple brought the new document picker and the document

00:56:09 ◼   ► providers and the iCloud Drive app to iOS because right now if you look at

00:56:14 ◼   ► your iPad or your iPhone and iOS 10 you already have a file system it's just

00:56:17 ◼   ► different from the Mac you don't have of course desktop you don't have Windows

00:56:22 ◼   ► but you do have a way to organize files and folders you know you have you can

00:56:27 ◼   ► create subfolders and you can use apps as storage locations. So you can use

00:56:32 ◼   ► Dropbox as a native provider in the document picker, you can switch back and

00:56:37 ◼   ► forth between different locations. You do have a file system, it's just way too

00:56:42 ◼   ► simple and way too fragmented right now to be as powerful as the Mac. And my

00:56:48 ◼   ► argument is Apple should not just copy the Mac's Finder because there are so

00:56:53 ◼   ► many, at least from my perspective, so many problems with the Max Finder. The

00:56:57 ◼   ► way that the view settings are all kinds of weird and really the

00:57:01 ◼   ► problems of people going to delete files into places where they're not supposed

00:57:06 ◼   ► to look at. But I think there's also plenty of good stuff that Apple should

00:57:10 ◼   ► borrow from the file manager that they created decades ago and that should,

00:57:16 ◼   ► it would make absolute sense, especially on the iPad. I think the main

00:57:21 ◼   ► idea that I try to convey in the video and the article is the finder should be

00:57:26 ◼   ► a unified place for everything. It should be a single place for iCalDrive, for

00:57:30 ◼   ► local storage, for storage locations from apps, and for document providers. And in

00:57:38 ◼   ► fact I also wrote in the story I believe Apple should discontinue document

00:57:43 ◼   ► providers such as Dropbox or Google Drive as you know separate places. They

00:57:49 ◼   ► should be just finder extensions. On the Mac or Apple already has this kind of

00:57:53 ◼   ► system it's called finder sync and it's an extension that allows apps to modify

00:57:58 ◼   ► the native finder behavior and I think if Apple wants to do a native file

00:58:01 ◼   ► manager on iOS just unify all of these different bits that you already have but

00:58:07 ◼   ► make them easier and more powerful and let them integrate safely and natively

00:58:13 ◼   ► with the finder. So for example Dropbox could be you know a top-level destination

00:58:18 ◼   ► in the Finder and use their own sync, use their own badges to indicate

00:58:23 ◼   ► status and have native sharing features. Or people could use iCloud Drive,

00:58:28 ◼   ► which would be the default location in the Finder. iCloud Drive should receive

00:58:33 ◼   ► sharing, should receive tags, permission control and all of the good

00:58:37 ◼   ► stuff from the Mac should also be available on iOS. And finally, just make a

00:58:44 ◼   ► a decent interface. If you look at iCalll Drive right now, the app, which is the file

00:58:49 ◼   ► manager from Apple on iOS now, it is terrible. It's awful. It's, I believe, the worst app

00:58:54 ◼   ► that Apple released on iOS so far. The extension update that they did with iOS 10, I still

00:59:01 ◼   ► cannot believe that it shipped, and it's up right there with the split view picker in

00:59:04 ◼   ► terms of what is the worst stuff we've ever done on iOS. It's the split view picker and

00:59:09 ◼   ► the Add to iCloud Drive extension.

00:59:11 ◼   ► So, you know, add a serious interface,

00:59:14 ◼   ► especially for pro users.

00:59:17 ◼   ► Icon view, column view, you know, popovers,

00:59:20 ◼   ► pop ups to view more file information.

00:59:23 ◼   ► There was, you know, years ago when the iPad was so simple,

00:59:28 ◼   ► you know, I'm thinking iPad one or iPad two,

00:59:30 ◼   ► there was no split view, no multitasking,

00:59:33 ◼   ► no keyboard shortcuts.

00:59:34 ◼   ► It made sense to have everything so simple.

00:59:37 ◼   ► But now we're at the point where one half of the iPad

00:59:41 ◼   ► is meant for pro users.

00:59:43 ◼   ► So you have split view, you have keyboard shortcuts,

00:59:45 ◼   ► you have pro apps, and there's the other half,

00:59:48 ◼   ► which is still for some reason stuck in the past,

00:59:51 ◼   ► which is iCloud drive and these document providers.

00:59:54 ◼   ► And I think it would make sense to unify everything.

00:59:57 ◼   ► And it's kind of sounds like a paradox,

01:00:00 ◼   ► but by making it more powerful,

01:00:02 ◼   ► it will actually be simpler because it's just one place

01:00:05 ◼   ► where people can do anything they want.

01:00:07 ◼   ► I think too this could be a stage for them to build other things upon. So things

01:00:12 ◼   ► like USB or network storage, right? We talked ages ago about you can put an SD

01:00:17 ◼   ► card in and pull photos off of it but pulling audio files like from a mobile

01:00:21 ◼   ► recorder is a lot more difficult and if you're gonna go through the trouble of

01:00:26 ◼   ► building something like this then have those things enabled, right? So I can

01:00:32 ◼   ► easily browse other things on my network. So if I have a Mac server somewhere I

01:00:38 ◼   ► can browse that on my network and pull a file from it and then put it in iCloud

01:00:41 ◼   ► Drive on my iPad. Like make the iPad aware of the world around it a little

01:00:45 ◼   ► bit more as far as storage goes. Because right now the only way to do that is to

01:00:49 ◼   ► use something like Dropbox or iCloud Drive to copy it there and then let that

01:00:52 ◼   ► cloud service take care of it for you. Where really a lot of people I think

01:00:57 ◼   ► just have files on their computer that they may want on their iPad and and not

01:01:01 ◼   ► deal with like the desktop and document syncing they put into macOS Sierra which

01:01:06 ◼   ► is like buggy and weird and if you get it wrong can go terribly sideways on you

01:01:10 ◼   ► but it's like make this thing extensible in a way that is useful to all sorts of

01:01:15 ◼   ► different types of setups. Yeah I completely agree like the idea of being

01:01:22 ◼   ► able to have access to all of these files and they kind of all have parity

01:01:27 ◼   ► and that they can all be in there right from all my document providers that is

01:01:31 ◼   ► exciting to me as an idea.

01:01:33 ◼   ► You know, like even if, like, I don't know if,

01:01:36 ◼   ► how this kind of thing would work,

01:01:37 ◼   ► but like if applications, I wonder,

01:01:38 ◼   ► well like applications can't be document providers.

01:01:42 ◼   ► You know, like maybe that's getting a bit too

01:01:45 ◼   ► weird and complicated.

01:01:46 ◼   ► - They can.

01:01:47 ◼   ► I mean, you can use like, you can pull stuff in and out

01:01:50 ◼   ► of like the documents app or--

01:01:52 ◼   ► - Okay, so let me say, more of them should be then, right?

01:01:55 ◼   ► - Yeah. - 'Cause it's like,

01:01:56 ◼   ► for example, I had something in Word, I needed to get it.

01:02:00 ◼   ► And it was like word should be a document provider. Yeah.

01:02:02 ◼   ► So I can grab out a word.

01:02:03 ◼   ► So maybe that would be like an interesting way to do it. Right.

01:02:06 ◼   ► Where like the iCloud portion of it or something like that,

01:02:09 ◼   ► you just go into each application or whatever and grab the files out of them.

01:02:13 ◼   ► But that could be a bit weird, but yeah. Okay. So there you go. Today I learned,

01:02:16 ◼   ► I thought that there had to be like always like a cloud service.

01:02:19 ◼   ► No, there's just not, there's not many apps that have done it.

01:02:22 ◼   ► I mean to your bigger point of developers don't always adopt the stuff quickly.

01:02:26 ◼   ► Yeah. Yeah.

01:02:27 ◼   ► I can count probably on one hand of the apps I've come across to do this.

01:02:30 ◼   ► Yeah, and really because the API can be so weird for doing the document stuff.

01:02:36 ◼   ► And for years it's been so flaky with so many bugs I've been talking to developers.

01:02:40 ◼   ► Many of the features that Apple released with iOS 8 had problems that weren't fixed until

01:02:45 ◼   ► later in the iOS 8 cycle or in iOS 9 really.

01:02:49 ◼   ► And so I think if Apple is going to do this there needs to be a new API and they need

01:02:53 ◼   ► to stop with doing this system of, here you go with document picker, now you need to select

01:03:02 ◼   ► one from these destinations.

01:03:04 ◼   ► So you can go into this single interface and do whatever you want, but then if you exit,

01:03:09 ◼   ► you lose the file that you selected.

01:03:11 ◼   ► So I think Apple solved these problems years ago on the Mac with the Finder, but there's

01:03:17 ◼   ► also the counterargument of the Finder is too difficult to use for most people, which

01:03:21 ◼   ► I do believe it's true to an extent and so there should be a middle ground maybe.

01:03:26 ◼   ► Not as simple and not as limiting as what we have now in iOS but

01:03:32 ◼   ► maybe not as complex as it is on the Mac. For example I imagine in iOS 11 if

01:03:39 ◼   ► you try to open a document it shouldn't be presented with the iCalc Drive

01:03:43 ◼   ► interface by default and then you gotta tap on the locations button if you want

01:03:47 ◼   ► to drill into document providers. You should just have a finder with

01:03:51 ◼   ► sidebar that opens, kind of like the open file dialog on the Mac, and you have the

01:03:56 ◼   ► sidebar, you can choose, well, do I want to go into iCloud Drive or Dropbox, and you

01:04:00 ◼   ► can just tap once to change locations. You can have stuff like favorite apps or

01:04:05 ◼   ► favorite folders, and you can just dig down and pick the file that you want, and

01:04:10 ◼   ► that's it. You don't need to tap 10,000 times to change between three

01:04:15 ◼   ► destinations you can just navigate across this finder UI and so I think

01:04:23 ◼   ► there should be a new extension system there should be a new API and apps really

01:04:28 ◼   ► should be able to more easily open documents and data from each other. Right

01:04:34 ◼   ► now it is possible for example if you have a text editor like Unisys you can

01:04:39 ◼   ► open and edit a file from Working Copy, which is a GitHub client.

01:04:46 ◼   ► It's already possible today on iOS 10 to say I have this app and I want to open

01:04:52 ◼   ► and edit a file from another app, but it's so cumbersome and it's so slow, it

01:04:57 ◼   ► should be easier and it should be done anywhere. And I believe a

01:05:01 ◼   ► better interface is the first step. The second one would be make that interface,

01:05:05 ◼   ► make the file manager available anywhere. So I suppose there's going to be a finder

01:05:09 ◼   ► app on the home screen, like a whole layer done by Apple, and there should also be a new picker in

01:05:14 ◼   ► every app which is defined their UI. Make it accessible, work with developers, work with companies like

01:05:20 ◼   ► Dropbox and Microsoft, I don't want to say Google Drive because you know, Google, but try to understand

01:05:27 ◼   ► the needs of pro users on iOS and make the kind of interface that wouldn't be as difficult as it is on the Mac,

01:05:33 ◼   ► would be much better than what we have today.

01:05:38 ◼   ► So you also took a look at overall iOS design and you have some thoughts on

01:05:44 ◼   ► maybe some messages that Apple has sent in recent versions of iOS?

01:05:50 ◼   ► We tried to take a look at what Apple did last year with Apple Music and with some changes in

01:05:58 ◼   ► Apple Maps and going back to my iOS 10 review, there was a point where I said there are multiple

01:06:05 ◼   ► design languages coexisting in iOS 10 today.

01:06:09 ◼   ► And I still think that is true.

01:06:10 ◼   ► If you look at, you know, not just icons, but really the use of cards, the use of buttons

01:06:19 ◼   ► across apps like Safari and Mail, and then you look at Apple Music and Apple Maps and

01:06:23 ◼   ► Apple News, they look like apps from two different companies.

01:06:28 ◼   ► And I think, you know, this year I think we'll see a refresh of the iOS 11 interface.

01:06:34 ◼   ► I don't know if it's going to be a groundbreaking major redesign like iOS 7 was, but I think

01:06:39 ◼   ► there will be some new consistency.

01:06:41 ◼   ► And so we try to imagine what that consistency means.

01:06:45 ◼   ► And we didn't spend a lot of time on the design concept just because I prefer myself to focus

01:06:51 ◼   ► on features and functionality.

01:06:54 ◼   ► But I imagine toolbar icons could be thicker, could be easier to see and to spot at a glance.

01:07:01 ◼   ► could be contextual animations on icons that are associated with actions. So the

01:07:07 ◼   ► video opens with a possible redesign of the Apple Notes app with

01:07:13 ◼   ► these thicker icons that sort of blend the current iOS style with the

01:07:20 ◼   ► watchOS styles. When you tap on an icon you get this little highlight on the

01:07:25 ◼   ► on the button and the icon also animates which is kind of reminiscent of the

01:07:30 ◼   ► material style from Google, I guess. And it's a way to add context and to make it more accessible,

01:07:36 ◼   ► you know, to have these button shapes around icons. I think there's a lot that Apple could

01:07:40 ◼   ► do to sort of liven up the iOS UI to make it more contextual, to make it more accessible,

01:07:46 ◼   ► and to make it more fun, which I think it's important, you know, to make it fun. Even if

01:07:51 ◼   ► it's a pro app, I think it's important to give it some personality. And after looking, I know

01:07:56 ◼   ► I know that after looking at the icons that we did for Safari for Apple Notes,

01:08:00 ◼   ► I went back and looked at the actual icons in Safari on iOS 10,

01:08:04 ◼   ► and they looked so old to me.

01:08:06 ◼   ► And I'm biased, of course, because it's our concept.

01:08:10 ◼   ► But I would love to see the Apple Music and the Apple Maps,

01:08:13 ◼   ► the Apple News style be more consistent throughout the entire iOS 11.

01:08:21 ◼   ► And then also you kind of rounded up some smaller features

01:08:24 ◼   ► that were interesting to me.

01:08:26 ◼   ► And the idea, one of them is that the share sheet

01:08:28 ◼   ► kind of needs some work.

01:08:30 ◼   ► And you spoke about, you know,

01:08:32 ◼   ► as well as just making it a little bit better

01:08:35 ◼   ► to view what's going on,

01:08:37 ◼   ► you also kind of had an idea of breaking extensions

01:08:41 ◼   ► outside of the share sheet as well.

01:08:43 ◼   ► - Yeah, this is probably one of the toughest sells

01:08:48 ◼   ► from this concept, which is,

01:08:51 ◼   ► Right now, if you want to use an extension, whether it's a Share extension or an Action type one,

01:08:57 ◼   ► you need to go through the Share sheet.

01:08:58 ◼   ► There's always this middle step of, "Okay, I know what I want to do, but first I need to tap the Share icon

01:09:05 ◼   ► and I need to scroll this list of extensions and pick the one that I want."

01:09:09 ◼   ► And this slows you down a lot, especially if you use the same extension every time.

01:09:14 ◼   ► You just need to go through this middle step every time.

01:09:19 ◼   ► So I imagine, what if you could use, again, drag and drop to select an extension and manually

01:09:26 ◼   ► drop it into a toolbar or an area of an app where you can drop in extensions.

01:09:32 ◼   ► So I imagine, for example, having a 1Password icon in the Safari toolbar, so every time

01:09:38 ◼   ► you need to log into a webpage, you don't need to open the share sheet and then find

01:09:42 ◼   ► 1Password, you can just tap on 1Password in the toolbar.

01:09:46 ◼   ► It's like the Mac, but done in a way that it combines the current system with possible

01:09:51 ◼   ► drag and drop and it would save you a lot of time.

01:09:55 ◼   ► But on the other hand, it would also require developers to support this feature.

01:10:00 ◼   ► I would assume developers would have to provide an icon for toolbars or for other interface

01:10:06 ◼   ► areas where extensions could be dropped.

01:10:09 ◼   ► And there's the argument to be made about, you know, by removing a step, you're possibly

01:10:16 ◼   ► opening up the system to potential damage caused by the users.

01:10:20 ◼   ► Because what if you accidentally tap on a workflow extension and something happens and

01:10:25 ◼   ► you didn't have the middle step of the sharesheet to save you?

01:10:29 ◼   ► So it's a trade-off, you know.

01:10:32 ◼   ► But I think it could be done in a way that, you know, you make it so that only the user

01:10:37 ◼   ► via drag and drop can bookmark, can mark an extension as a favorite.

01:10:42 ◼   ► And so it wouldn't be done by the system that suddenly you have your toolbar filled with icons,

01:10:47 ◼   ► you know, in the worst Windows nightmare from the old era.

01:10:52 ◼   ► It would be done by the user manually every time.

01:10:55 ◼   ► And I think, you know, for example, you could have an OmniFocus extension directly in Safari,

01:11:03 ◼   ► or you could have something like a Todoist extension

01:11:07 ◼   ► right in the mail UI.

01:11:10 ◼   ► It's a way to make the share sheet more extensible

01:11:13 ◼   ► and faster combining it with drag and drop.

01:11:17 ◼   ► But I don't know if Apple likes this idea

01:11:21 ◼   ► or has played around with this idea.

01:11:23 ◼   ► - Yeah, this is something that I would want

01:11:25 ◼   ► in some of my applications,

01:11:26 ◼   ► but I think of everything that you pose in the video

01:11:29 ◼   ► and in the article,

01:11:31 ◼   ► this feels like the least likely to happen for me.

01:11:34 ◼   ► Like I really struggled to imagine Apple

01:11:38 ◼   ► allowing the Yahoo tool bar to appear

01:11:42 ◼   ► in a bunch of different applications, you know?

01:11:44 ◼   ► - I tend to agree, yeah.

01:11:46 ◼   ► And I think for that reason, because it puts,

01:11:49 ◼   ► the share sheet can, for all of its trouble,

01:11:52 ◼   ► is kind of hidden away, right?

01:11:54 ◼   ► And if you don't ever go in there

01:11:56 ◼   ► or you don't enable a bunch of apps,

01:11:58 ◼   ► you don't know how messy it can get.

01:11:59 ◼   ► But to put that stuff like front and center

01:12:02 ◼   ► in Apple's UI Chrome doesn't seem like something

01:12:06 ◼   ► they're going to do.

01:12:07 ◼   ► I mean, even though they do it on the Mac,

01:12:09 ◼   ► but I think that on iOS with less space and sort of more

01:12:14 ◼   ► flexibility in the UI, I just don't quite

01:12:16 ◼   ► see it happening there.

01:12:19 ◼   ► So you touch on the home screen becoming denser,

01:12:21 ◼   ► which I completely agree with, right?

01:12:23 ◼   ► Like filling up that home screen a little bit more.

01:12:25 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:12:26 ◼   ► You spoke about multiple audio streams,

01:12:28 ◼   ► which is something that we've spoken about a bunch of times on this show.

01:12:31 ◼   ► I don't think we need to rehash that, right?

01:12:33 ◼   ► Like the idea of a new audio framework that can allow for simultaneous audio streams so

01:12:38 ◼   ► you could, you know, you could have a video playing and be listening to something else

01:12:41 ◼   ► or you could, as we want, record a Skype call or a VoIP call or a FaceTime call so we could

01:12:47 ◼   ► finally do podcasting on iOS.

01:12:49 ◼   ► If that happens Federico won't need to buy a new Mac Pro after all.

01:12:52 ◼   ► That's very true.

01:12:53 ◼   ► I could just use my iPad and iOS 11.

01:12:57 ◼   ► I think it makes a lot of sense not just for podcasters but for musicians.

01:13:01 ◼   ► You know, anyone who works with mixing apps that deal with multiple audio streams.

01:13:06 ◼   ► Right now they usually have to rely on stuff like Audio Bus, for example, to get audio

01:13:11 ◼   ► streams from multiple apps into a single interface and editing UI.

01:13:15 ◼   ► And I think that should be done at a system level.

01:13:17 ◼   ► There should be an API that deals with, you know, there's multiple streams occurring now

01:13:22 ◼   ► and you can control them.

01:13:24 ◼   ► be a control center maybe in another way but there should be at least support at

01:13:28 ◼   ► an API level for developers to be able to have multiple sessions, audio

01:13:33 ◼   ► sessions going at the same time. Yeah. Maybe a little bit more versatility and

01:13:39 ◼   ► love shown to Notes.app like for example you pose and like the ability to

01:13:44 ◼   ► use the Apple Pencil anywhere in the application to just draw wherever you

01:13:47 ◼   ► want as opposed to entering drawing mode and then having this little image popped

01:13:51 ◼   ► in which is a little bit hacky when you think about it especially you know you look at other

01:13:55 ◼   ► applications like good notes or notability right you can you can do this with their applications

01:14:00 ◼   ► and also more sharing options like support for sharing entire folders and plus I mean

01:14:08 ◼   ► I would like to see the sharing stuff improved it's a little bit janky like a couple of days

01:14:13 ◼   ► ago me and Adina were sharing a note and I was like I'll press the airdrop button to

01:14:17 ◼   ► to share this note.

01:14:18 ◼   ► When you do it, you still have to enter contact information.

01:14:22 ◼   ► I don't think, Apple, I don't think you know what AirDrop is.

01:14:25 ◼   ► It's a little bit weird.

01:14:27 ◼   ► - That's such a weird thing.

01:14:30 ◼   ► I mean, maybe it's like a two-step,

01:14:31 ◼   ► like you don't accidentally AirDrop a private note

01:14:34 ◼   ► to someone on the subway, but it's--

01:14:35 ◼   ► - Yeah, but that's your, you know,

01:14:36 ◼   ► I mean, that's your problem, right?

01:14:38 ◼   ► Like, click the right button.

01:14:40 ◼   ► - No mercy in the UI.

01:14:44 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:14:46 ◼   ► Yeah, I think the drawing mode, the problem there would be for people like you, Myke,

01:14:54 ◼   ► to add freeform drawing would mean you cannot control the interface with a pencil.

01:15:01 ◼   ► That's the big problem here.

01:15:02 ◼   ► Yes and no.

01:15:03 ◼   ► I mean, I use applications like GoodNotes and Notability, right?

01:15:07 ◼   ► And there's a few ways you can do this.

01:15:08 ◼   ► You can press a button, right?

01:15:11 ◼   ► Like you can press the pen button and then you just start drawing.

01:15:15 ◼   ► But also in applications that have a notes component to them, I'm mostly okay with the

01:15:21 ◼   ► fact that I use my finger and then use the Apple Pencil.

01:15:24 ◼   ► Let me scroll the list, but when I'm in the content of the note, like if I touch my Apple

01:15:29 ◼   ► Pencil to the page and it draws something, I'm mostly okay with that.

01:15:33 ◼   ► I understand that.

01:15:36 ◼   ► Most applications solve this by having you press a button, which will then kind of enable

01:15:39 ◼   ► pencil mode.

01:15:40 ◼   ► And then you can draw and you can use your finger.

01:15:43 ◼   ► And then when you click it again you can choose the pencil to navigate.

01:15:48 ◼   ► So there's an item here in the notes and it just says that I have a confession.

01:15:54 ◼   ► And now I sort of regret putting this in here because...

01:15:57 ◼   ► Oh no.

01:15:58 ◼   ► No go ahead.

01:15:59 ◼   ► Now I feel I have to come clean.

01:16:00 ◼   ► I feel like I know what it is.

01:16:02 ◼   ► I should confess.

01:16:03 ◼   ► Myke probably can guess what it is.

01:16:05 ◼   ► Steven, do you have a desire for work chat?

01:16:08 ◼   ► I have my Notes at Evernote right now.

01:16:10 ◼   ► Oh my god.

01:16:11 ◼   ► What?

01:16:12 ◼   ► this to me again. Why? Two big reasons and one of them you go into in your

01:16:18 ◼   ► article Federico that folders and subfolders in notes on iOS is like a

01:16:23 ◼   ► mess and you can't you can't you can't create them there at all right now and I

01:16:28 ◼   ► ran into an issue which is one issue I switch is I use notes I use folders and

01:16:32 ◼   ► subfolders and notes pretty heavily and the notes application on iOS would not

01:16:37 ◼   ► and the Mac would not ever save what folders were open and not so I'd go in

01:16:43 ◼   ► to look for something and I have to like tap into a folder tap into the sub

01:16:46 ◼   ► folder kind of the opposite problem of iCloud Drive where everything's always

01:16:49 ◼   ► expanded and it really it was like a small thing but just a graded me

01:16:54 ◼   ► endlessly but I also have a lot of notes that have multiple attachments in them

01:17:01 ◼   ► so I like have some text and have a screenshot and have some more text and

01:17:04 ◼   ► and then a PDF and some more text in the screenshot.

01:17:06 ◼   ► And Notes was just slowly breaking down for me in that.

01:17:10 ◼   ► It does a good job at handling attachments

01:17:12 ◼   ► and you have the attachment view,

01:17:14 ◼   ► which is actually pretty nice,

01:17:16 ◼   ► but I just kind of became increasingly frustrated

01:17:19 ◼   ► with some of the way those things were laid out

01:17:22 ◼   ► and some of the lack of text control

01:17:25 ◼   ► and some other things in there.

01:17:27 ◼   ► And so I started by just moving one notebook into Evernote

01:17:31 ◼   ► and I have to say all the problems

01:17:32 ◼   ► are still there, but they have done a really good job

01:17:36 ◼   ► at making it easier to work around,

01:17:38 ◼   ► and so you can completely turn off stuff you don't want,

01:17:41 ◼   ► and the syncing's really good.

01:17:42 ◼   ► And I've been in here like six weeks,

01:17:44 ◼   ► and honestly, like, things are pretty good.

01:17:47 ◼   ► And one thing I'd forgotten that I really liked,

01:17:50 ◼   ► and one thing that I would like to see Apple address

01:17:52 ◼   ► in the notes application is some idea of shortcuts.

01:17:56 ◼   ► And so I have three notes that I get into,

01:17:59 ◼   ► if not every day, at least four or five times a week.

01:18:04 ◼   ► And they're buried in subfolders somewhere.

01:18:06 ◼   ► And in Notes, I'd have to go and find them or search for it.

01:18:09 ◼   ► And I just need to be in there for a quick second

01:18:12 ◼   ► just to put something in it and then get out.

01:18:14 ◼   ► And Evernote has shortcuts.

01:18:15 ◼   ► They sync across all your devices.

01:18:17 ◼   ► So I go in, I can enter this one note,

01:18:20 ◼   ► add the line of text I need for the day that it is,

01:18:23 ◼   ► and then move on.

01:18:23 ◼   ► And that speed for that particular use case

01:18:27 ◼   ► is really nice in something like Evernote.

01:18:29 ◼   ► So we'll see how long it lasts.

01:18:31 ◼   ► I'm very, I really hope Apple makes notes more flexible

01:18:35 ◼   ► in iOS 11 and in Mac OS 10.13.

01:18:39 ◼   ► But for now, like Evernote's been totally great.

01:18:42 ◼   ► So, so there.

01:18:44 ◼   ► I even, to show you the depths of my shame,

01:18:47 ◼   ► someone asked for a screenshot of my iPhone

01:18:50 ◼   ► and I hit Evernote and put notes back in place

01:18:53 ◼   ► 'cause I don't want to get into it.

01:18:53 ◼   ► 'Cause it's somebody that you two follow

01:18:55 ◼   ► and you would see it and then have to come clean to you then.

01:18:57 ◼   ► But I've come clean to you now.

01:18:58 ◼   ► I've confessed my sins and it feels pretty good to have it off my chest.

01:19:01 ◼   ► We don't have time for this today.

01:19:04 ◼   ► I know.

01:19:05 ◼   ► That's why I did it today.

01:19:06 ◼   ► And I am in charge of follow-ups.

01:19:07 ◼   ► It's never coming up again.

01:19:08 ◼   ► Next.

01:19:09 ◼   ► Moving swiftly on.

01:19:11 ◼   ► And also, I think the last of the features that I saw you, we're ending on a real high

01:19:16 ◼   ► here.

01:19:17 ◼   ► Some improvements to Mail.app?

01:19:19 ◼   ► Yes.

01:19:20 ◼   ► Well, you know, of all the system apps, I think Mail is the one that is the most behind

01:19:28 ◼   ► the competition. There are some excellent clients on the App Store these days, especially

01:19:32 ◼   ► I feel like after Mailbox went away, it was a chance for other companies to sort of not

01:19:38 ◼   ► just rebuild Mailbox but go even beyond. So even if you look at Gmail, Outlook, Spark,

01:19:46 ◼   ► Polymail, Newton, Airmail of course, there are so many excellent choices and if you try

01:19:53 ◼   ► those apps and then you go back to Apple Mail, it just feels like it's an app from 10 years

01:19:57 ◼   ► ago. And Apple hasn't kept up with the pace of innovation, I think, from others.

01:20:02 ◼   ► And some features that have become commonplace these days, like you can

01:20:06 ◼   ► snooze a message, or you know, you can integrate with apps, you can

01:20:13 ◼   ► have saved searches. That kind of stuff is still not available on iOS.

01:20:18 ◼   ► So I feel like Apple is failing on two fronts with their mail app. It is not as

01:20:22 ◼   ► powerful as their Mac version, which does have features for pro users such as smart

01:20:29 ◼   ► folders and rules and all of these other options that are not available on iOS, but they're

01:20:35 ◼   ► also not keeping up with others.

01:20:37 ◼   ► They're not following what other people are doing with snoozing, for example.

01:20:42 ◼   ► And I think it is a chance this year for Apple to sort of redo their mail app to make it

01:20:47 ◼   ► faster because it's still so slow if you try to search for a message with a Gmail account,

01:20:52 ◼   ► It's kind of terrible.

01:20:54 ◼   ► Personally I never can find what I'm looking for in Mail.

01:20:58 ◼   ► And they should just extend it and allow developers to integrate with Mail, to bring in apps and

01:21:03 ◼   ► to let users more easily and more quickly manage their messages by integrating with

01:21:08 ◼   ► apps, by snoozing messages which has become really a de facto standard in email clients

01:21:15 ◼   ► and just make it a modern email client because it's been 10 years of iOS and Mail I feel

01:21:21 ◼   ► it's the app that has changed the least. I totally agree it really seems like it

01:21:28 ◼   ► has been more or less forgotten about and and in the wake of I mean you just

01:21:34 ◼   ► riled off on how many apps in the wake of this huge like like clearly people

01:21:39 ◼   ► want more right or there wouldn't be a new mail app every day and right now

01:21:45 ◼   ► those features are reserved for people who are willing to put up with the pain

01:21:49 ◼   ► of having a third-party email client. For a lot of people that pain is worth

01:21:53 ◼   ► those features and it really seems like like this seems really low hanging fruit

01:21:58 ◼   ► to me. Clearly there's a demand for this. Apple could do it really nicely and with

01:22:03 ◼   ► some of the stuff like smart folders they already have it it's on the Mac and

01:22:06 ◼   ► and you know bring that to iOS but the search man I'm glad you brought up search

01:22:12 ◼   ► the search is so bad. I use a Gmail account and two Google Apps accounts in

01:22:17 ◼   ► and mail and I have the Gmail app installed on my iPhone because I need to search something

01:22:22 ◼   ► I go to it because 9 times out of 10 mail.app can't find it.

01:22:27 ◼   ► That's really sad.

01:22:29 ◼   ► The stuff is there.

01:22:32 ◼   ► People always point fingers at Google doing non-iMap stuff.

01:22:36 ◼   ► The reality is Google is the biggest, if not the biggest, probably one of the biggest email

01:22:41 ◼   ► providers of iPhone users.

01:22:44 ◼   ► Work with it better, have search that works, and then give us these things that clearly

01:22:47 ◼   ► we all want.

01:22:48 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:22:51 ◼   ► So Federico, how did putting the video together compare this year to last year?

01:22:57 ◼   ► Well, I started working on this almost three months ago.

01:23:04 ◼   ► That's when I started my note of wishes that I wanted to come to the iPad.

01:23:11 ◼   ► And I had the realization of I should focus on the iPad.

01:23:14 ◼   ► I think around March, I wanted to do both iPhone and iPad.

01:23:19 ◼   ► But as I was putting together this outline, I just felt better about the ideas that I

01:23:23 ◼   ► had about the iPad and I was struggling to come up with iPhone stuff.

01:23:27 ◼   ► And I thought that was a sign of I should focus on the iPad because this is where Apple

01:23:32 ◼   ► is most behind.

01:23:34 ◼   ► And so I contacted Sam and we got to work in, I think in mid-March, and we used Slack

01:23:40 ◼   ► to communicate back and forth and to share mockups.

01:23:43 ◼   ► Fun fact, we used to communicate with Telegram last year.

01:23:47 ◼   ► And this year, it's been much better using--

01:23:49 ◼   ► Yeah, Telegram.

01:23:51 ◼   ► Remember that?

01:23:51 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:23:52 ◼   ► Yeah, I remember that.

01:23:53 ◼   ► It's been much better communicating

01:23:55 ◼   ► than search in Slack.

01:23:56 ◼   ► It's been super fun to look back at the concept and the mockups

01:24:01 ◼   ► that we did.

01:24:02 ◼   ► During the initial stages, Sam shared with me--

01:24:08 ◼   ► I think it's called Marvel.

01:24:09 ◼   ► It's like an interactive prototype tool.

01:24:12 ◼   ► So I was able to sort of understand the interactions

01:24:16 ◼   ► that he had in mind.

01:24:17 ◼   ► And so we had these very rudimentary mock-ups

01:24:20 ◼   ► for the split view picker and the shelf.

01:24:22 ◼   ► And that was really fun because I could actually try

01:24:25 ◼   ► and see the animations.

01:24:26 ◼   ► That was very fun.

01:24:28 ◼   ► - Marvel is very, very impressive.

01:24:29 ◼   ► It's marvelous, you could even say, if you wanted to.

01:24:32 ◼   ► - Oh, Myke.

01:24:33 ◼   ► - You could say it.

01:24:34 ◼   ► If you wanted to say it, you could say it.

01:24:36 ◼   ► - Don't say it.

01:24:37 ◼   ► - Yes, you're fired from the show.

01:24:39 ◼   ► Also, I think Sam uses Sketch to build all of the assets.

01:24:44 ◼   ► Like last year, the video was exported at 4K.

01:24:49 ◼   ► I don't even know what kind of computer Sam has.

01:24:51 ◼   ► I assume it must be a Mac Pro or an iMac.

01:24:54 ◼   ► I know it's a Mac and it uses Sketch.

01:24:56 ◼   ► And I don't know all of the other tools that it uses.

01:24:58 ◼   ► It's gonna have a behind the scenes type of stuff

01:25:02 ◼   ► on the Cloud Mac stories newsletter.

01:25:05 ◼   ► So, you know, it's gonna explain this stuff much better

01:25:08 ◼   ► than I can. But from my end, I had this shared note, we were talking about sharing in notes,

01:25:16 ◼   ► that I sent to Sam and I was looking at my ideas and it was organised in sections. And

01:25:22 ◼   ► then Sam, a month later, came back to me with the same ideas but done in a sort of storyboard

01:25:30 ◼   ► structure. There were scenes and ideas for cuts and zoom levels and transitions.

01:25:36 ◼   ► So professional.

01:25:37 ◼   ► I was very professional and from the get-go, we had this,

01:25:41 ◼   ► I looked back and my first idea was,

01:25:45 ◼   ► we should do a day in the life kind of theme

01:25:48 ◼   ► to show the changes in practice.

01:25:50 ◼   ► Instead of just having a like a gallery of mock-ups

01:25:53 ◼   ► and features, let's show how a typical workflow

01:25:58 ◼   ► would look like.

01:25:59 ◼   ► And Sam had the idea of,

01:26:01 ◼   ► why don't we plan a vacation to Barcelona,

01:26:03 ◼   ► which is a city that we both love.

01:26:05 ◼   ► So nice that you two got on that vacation together, I guess, at the end of this.

01:26:08 ◼   ► Yeah. It's really sweet.

01:26:10 ◼   ► Yeah. So that is perfect.

01:26:11 ◼   ► Let's plan a vacation to Barcelona.

01:26:13 ◼   ► So we try to imagine all of the apps that could be used.

01:26:16 ◼   ► You know, for example, if you look, we have Duolingo in the shelf,

01:26:20 ◼   ► which is the app to learn a different language.

01:26:23 ◼   ► And there were some details that I'm really proud of in the video, for example,

01:26:27 ◼   ► because it's a day in the life.

01:26:31 ◼   ► The time in the system clock changes throughout the day

01:26:34 ◼   ► to show you that it's the same person using the iPad throughout the day

01:26:38 ◼   ► to switch between multiple apps in multiple sessions.

01:26:42 ◼   ► Tell everyone we've got a smarty pants over here.

01:26:47 ◼   ► There's some other stuff like most of the changes in notes that I,

01:26:51 ◼   ► you know, they're not the highlight of the video, but they're there like

01:26:55 ◼   ► they're better, rich links, there's, you know,

01:26:59 ◼   ► new icons, there's the little animations and

01:27:04 ◼   ► We tried to replicate the feeling of last year, but it's also kind of different.

01:27:08 ◼   ► Last year I tried to look back and the core principle is the same, which is we should make a video that looks like something that could happen, that looks real.

01:27:19 ◼   ► But last year, even the drag and drop stuff, it was based on the copy and paste menu.

01:27:24 ◼   ► This year we went with a more gestural sort of interaction.

01:27:30 ◼   ► and it looks a bit different, it looks more new.

01:27:33 ◼   ► And of course the shelf is something that doesn't exist on iOS.

01:27:36 ◼   ► So I think this year we had to balance the fact that we want to make a video

01:27:41 ◼   ► that looks like something that Apple could do and that looks native to iOS,

01:27:45 ◼   ► but we also have to invent these features because they don't exist right now.

01:27:50 ◼   ► And so we spent a lot of time on making sure that those new features that don't exist

01:27:55 ◼   ► wouldn't feel out of place because something that I don't like is when I look at concepts

01:28:00 ◼   ► from other people, they look like something that,

01:28:02 ◼   ► you know, it doesn't belong to iOS.

01:28:04 ◼   ► And that is not what I wanted to build.

01:28:07 ◼   ► And of course, you know, as usual,

01:28:09 ◼   ► I provided lots of comments and lots of notes to Sam,

01:28:13 ◼   ► lots of bullet points in Slack and notes.

01:28:15 ◼   ► And, you know, he iterated with the mock-ups,

01:28:19 ◼   ► with the static images,

01:28:20 ◼   ► and then he sent me back the animations

01:28:22 ◼   ► and then back and forth.

01:28:23 ◼   ► It was very nice.

01:28:24 ◼   ► Sam is a pro and he's a genius.

01:28:26 ◼   ► So I'm very happy with the result.

01:28:28 ◼   ► And also the music came from Sam, he gave me two choices and we settled on this epic beat this year.

01:28:36 ◼   ► It's much more different from the happy music from last year, but I think it works.

01:28:40 ◼   ► Epic beat, the name of the song.

01:28:42 ◼   ► I think it's called Epic Beat.

01:28:44 ◼   ► Perfect, of course it is.

01:28:45 ◼   ► Yeah, it really has the look and feel of something that could come from Cupertino in my eyes.

01:28:52 ◼   ► I watch it and I'm like, "You could fool me."

01:28:56 ◼   ► Actually, last year I was talking to a friend outside of Moscone and it was like, "You know,

01:29:02 ◼   ► I gotta tell you, a friend of mine texted me a few days ago and he told me, 'Hey guys,

01:29:07 ◼   ► I saw that you announced the new iOS 10' and my friend was talking about your concept.

01:29:14 ◼   ► So we had to explain that, so thank you." Yeah, that's the idea. I mean, I don't want

01:29:20 ◼   ► to fool people, but I want to make sure that when you look at concepts, if they don't look

01:29:25 ◼   ► native and if they break the illusion, you're just gonna notice this is something that can

01:29:30 ◼   ► never exist, this is something that doesn't make sense because I cannot picture it. And

01:29:34 ◼   ► we want to make sure that you can picture it, that you can see it, how it would make

01:29:38 ◼   ► sense and that's why they need to look like Apple videos to us. Because they need to make

01:29:42 ◼   ► sense, they need not to fool people but to be credible, to be reasonable. And I think

01:29:47 ◼   ► if you cannot break the illusion then you get people to start thinking and to start

01:29:52 ◼   ► imagining things and that's the beauty of a concept that you can start a discussion.

01:29:56 ◼   ► All right you can find links to all of this stuff in our show notes today which are relay.fm/connected/142

01:30:02 ◼   ► or just go to maxstories.net. This is incredible work from you and Sam again this year Federico.

01:30:11 ◼   ► So thank you. Bravo. And I guess this begins the preparation for WWDC. Yes. Right like

01:30:20 ◼   ► this is the start. We've got like two more episodes. It's coming up. It's all happening.

01:30:29 ◼   ► So buckle up everybody I guess. Thanks to our sponsors this week, the fine folk over

01:30:34 ◼   ► at Squarespace and PDF-Pen9 from Smile. You can find Federico online, he's @vitici.

01:30:44 ◼   ► and maxstories.net and what other stories Federico? Any other stories?

01:30:49 ◼   ► Or are we good? Just the two?

01:30:51 ◼   ► This is all the stories that I have yeah.

01:30:54 ◼   ► All the great stories .net apparently as well as where you also find them.

01:30:58 ◼   ► You can go to 512pixels.net for Steven's work and he is @ismh on Twitter.

01:31:03 ◼   ► I'm @imike, I M Y K E. We'll be back next week. Thank you so much for listening to

01:31:08 ◼   ► Connected episode 142. Until then say goodbye guys.

01:31:12 ◼   ► Arrivederci. Adios.