140: Elaborate System of Mirrors


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:06   From Relay FM, this is Connected, episode 140, the tweet edition.

00:00:12   Today's show is brought to you by Casper, Pingdom, and Bumfell.

00:00:16   My name is Myke Hurley and I am joined by Mr. Steven Hackett.

00:00:19   Hey buddy.

00:00:21   Hey.

00:00:22   Welcome back.

00:00:23   Thank you. I'm back.

00:00:24   So Federico is gone.

00:00:25   We are now operating a revolving door policy on Connected.

00:00:29   Yeah.

00:00:30   One in, one out.

00:00:31   I don't understand why I'm the center of it.

00:00:33   I have not missed an episode in a long time.

00:00:35   But the two of you, crazy Europeans, just like going around the world doing stuff.

00:00:40   So Federico will be back next week.

00:00:42   I think next week should be all three of us again.

00:00:44   Which will be good.

00:00:45   Who knows though?

00:00:47   You never know.

00:00:48   I may just take off just because I can.

00:00:49   Nope, you can't actually.

00:00:51   I really can.

00:00:52   No, you really can't.

00:00:53   You gotta check your contract.

00:00:55   We have a bunch of follow up.

00:00:57   Good.

00:00:58   It's really been piling up this week.

00:01:00   So we're gonna get right into it.

00:01:01   We had what I have called in our show notes

00:01:04   the sweet sweat email.

00:01:06   - No, that's good.

00:01:07   - It's good, right?

00:01:08   As an aside, sometimes I do asides and follow-up

00:01:13   and other people don't like them.

00:01:15   But Myke, you are known for typos on the internet, right?

00:01:20   It's a thing that you've done.

00:01:21   Someone, I won't say who, runs a whole Tumblr about it.

00:01:25   But once, very embarrassingly, I left a note for Mary, my wife, and I called her "Sweetheart,"

00:01:34   but I did it in a hurry, and I wrote "Sweathart." And so that's been a joke in my marriage now for

00:01:41   a long time. So I'm not sure we go, "Hey, Sweathart." So this is the Sweathart email

00:01:47   from listener Jochen. And Jochen works on—this was a very involved email, but the gist of it is,

00:01:55   Yokin works with some sort of polymer that is used in disposable diapers and so they

00:02:01   are familiar with the types of things they use.

00:02:06   Fake urine to test.

00:02:07   So he knows about fake sweat and he says fake sweat is not gross.

00:02:13   It is 99% water with less than 1% salts dissolved into it.

00:02:19   It's pretty interesting and he kind of likens it to Gatorade that these drinks are to replace

00:02:28   exactly what you're losing while you sweat, so they have salt in them, ionic things.

00:02:34   It's important to material design because salt solutions are very corrosive over time.

00:02:39   So some scenarios with the watch and things like the headphones and everything, they want

00:02:43   to make sure that if you're running in this thing, you're playing basketball and you're

00:02:46   getting it sweaty, that you're not going to be damaging the product and it's not damaging

00:02:51   you.

00:02:52   So, lesson learned, as the ghost of Federico put in our show notes, you can put your Apple

00:02:57   devices in Gatorade and they'll be just fine.

00:02:59   I don't buy that.

00:03:00   I think it's a lesson here.

00:03:01   I don't think it's a good thing to follow.

00:03:03   I think it's fake news.

00:03:05   The second piece of follow up, this will be the first link in the show notes.

00:03:11   Maybe Myke will put a photo of it in the show notes so you don't even have to click on the

00:03:14   link because this is really it in some ways it's the best thing I've ever seen

00:03:19   on the internet and other ways it is the most frustratingly annoying thing I've

00:03:23   seen on the internet Myke what did you receive as a gift a chop it's what it's

00:03:30   called this is a very pan addict focused thing but my friend Glenn sent me what

00:03:36   is called a chop and the chop is what you use to make wax seals you know you

00:03:41   see those old-timey wax seals like you drip wax onto an envelope and you stamp

00:03:44   something on it. Well my friend Glen had made for me a #MykeWasRight chop so I can now seal

00:03:51   all of my correspondence with my brand. And I'm very excited about that. I can also apparently

00:03:56   use this on chocolate so everybody can expect chocolate soon that say Myke was right on

00:04:01   them.

00:04:02   I have a lot of questions. The first one is, how often do you send correspondence that

00:04:09   you seal with wax? That's very...

00:04:11   I don't send letters at all, but now I'm going to because I actually today, it may arrive

00:04:16   during the show, I have some wax coming. Some special wax and like a spoon thing that you

00:04:24   have to heat it up over. It's very interesting.

00:04:27   medieval?

00:04:28   Yeah. And so then I will be able to wax seal everything. So everything in my house is going

00:04:34   to get a wax seal, just as Myke was right on it.

00:04:37   Yeah, that was my next question. Where does one buy wax? Is it a special wax? Can you

00:04:43   pick the color? I guess you can pick the color, right?

00:04:45   Yeah, I got this whole kit on Amazon. It was like £8 and it's on Prime of course, which

00:04:51   is really interesting to me.

00:04:53   It's really ironic.

00:04:54   That you can get your old-timey antique sealing wax on one day delivery from us on Prime,

00:05:02   but turns out you can.

00:05:04   That's pretty spectacular.

00:05:06   So people who follow us on Twitter will know that I sent the 1000th invoice from our company.

00:05:11   Why are you doing this?

00:05:13   And I'm just begging you not to send our invoices sealed with the "Myke was right" stamp.

00:05:19   I'm going to print that one invoice and send it back to you.

00:05:23   Do it.

00:05:24   I'll open it live.

00:05:25   I'll stream it live on the internet somewhere.

00:05:28   You have my address.

00:05:30   Do it.

00:05:31   2017 around Relay FM HQ has been known as the year of live.

00:05:35   We're doing a bunch more live events this year

00:05:38   and we're very excited to announce another one.

00:05:41   This will be on Sunday, October 15th,

00:05:44   connected, which is the show you're listening to now,

00:05:46   although with three of us, not just two of us,

00:05:48   all three of us are gonna be in person in Chicago

00:05:52   for the Release Notes Conference.

00:05:53   There'll be a link in the show notes

00:05:54   to the Release Notes Conference signup page.

00:05:57   It's an amazing conference if you're a developer

00:06:00   a small business owner, an independent.

00:06:02   If you're kind of in this community,

00:06:03   Release Notes is a conference you should go to.

00:06:06   Myke spoke the first year, I spoke last year,

00:06:09   and Federico is speaking this year.

00:06:11   So they are three for three for connected listeners,

00:06:14   our connected host.

00:06:16   And this year on Sunday, October 15th at 6 p.m.,

00:06:20   we're going to do a live episode of Connected

00:06:23   right around the corner from their venue.

00:06:25   And if you sign up for Release Notes,

00:06:28   In the email, there'll be a link to a secret ticket page

00:06:31   where you can go.

00:06:32   Tickets are free to come see us.

00:06:34   We're gonna do a live show.

00:06:36   Federico then has to go to a speaker thing,

00:06:38   but Myke and I will be around for a little while, I think.

00:06:41   Tickets, like I said, are going to attendees

00:06:42   of Release Notes first, but we are planning

00:06:45   on opening that ticket page to the public pretty soon.

00:06:48   So if you're on the fence about Release Notes,

00:06:51   you should totally go, go sign up, get a ticket,

00:06:54   come to Chicago, and come see us.

00:06:56   We're excited to do a live show.

00:06:57   Since we're not doing Connected Live in California this summer, we're going to do it live in

00:07:01   Chicago this fall.

00:07:02   It's going to be a lot of fun.

00:07:04   Let's talk about Year of Live, right?

00:07:07   Because I will also that weekend be doing a live episode of The Penn Addict in Chicago

00:07:13   at the Field Notes offices.

00:07:16   And we've also just did the episode in Atlanta a couple of weeks ago.

00:07:20   And we've got some other stuff bubbling as well.

00:07:23   This is fun.

00:07:24   I enjoy it a lot.

00:07:25   It's difficult to do.

00:07:27   shows are a hard thing to put on but we're getting better at the technology

00:07:30   of it all so we're working on trying to do more and more of them in places all

00:07:35   over the world not just not just in America but also across America and I'm

00:07:41   trying to see what the feasibility would do be to try and do something in London

00:07:44   at some point not in the not-too-distant future as well so there you go.

00:07:48   Lots of lots of good stuff. We're talking about Relay News we did sometimes we do

00:07:55   this, we launched a new show last week called Download. They'll be linking the

00:07:58   show notes. Download is a panel show dedicated to covering the week's biggest

00:08:05   and most interesting tech stories. So Download is not another Apple show, it is

00:08:09   a show about tech sort of on the broad. It is the, we're looking at companies,

00:08:16   products, trends, things like quarterly results even, but the the idea is to

00:08:22   cover tech sort of wide you know as widely as we can. Most of our shows are

00:08:27   very sort of niche even some of that connected which covers Apple you know we

00:08:32   really just cover Apple and Amazon stuff as they relate to Apple. Download is not

00:08:36   that, download is looking at the whole thing. There's a link in the show notes

00:08:39   also to a blog post I wrote last week. We started this project back in August of

00:08:45   last year when you Myke and Jason were in town. We started sketching this out.

00:08:51   Jason is the host. I'm working as the producer, which is a new role for Relay.

00:08:54   So I'm on the show a little bit, but doing a lot of behind-the-scenes stuff.

00:08:59   You scarily pop in. I do, that's the whole gag. People are like, "I didn't

00:09:05   even know you were there!" And so we're gonna do a better job on episode two of

00:09:07   introducing me at the beginning. But I'm sort of like the annoying guy on

00:09:11   the talk shows at night, you know, who sits in the corner and makes bad

00:09:15   jokes. That's me on the show. But one of the big goals here is to give us another opportunity

00:09:28   to bring new and diverse voices to Relay. So, you know, that's something we work really

00:09:33   hard on. It's hard to do because most of our shows don't have guest spots. You know, a

00:09:36   show like Connected, we may have two guests on a year and that's usually something very

00:09:41   specific. We don't really have an interview show anymore outside like Mac

00:09:46   Power Users and Presentable, so this is like another way of doing this. And so be

00:09:51   on the lookout for new voices. If you have a story idea or a guest idea, someone who

00:09:56   you think would be really good on the show, let me know. You can find me on Twitter

00:10:00   @ismh because we want download to be a success and we want it to be a real

00:10:05   different thing than what we're doing on some of the other shows. Well put.

00:10:10   This week's episode is brought to you by Casper, the company focused on sleep that

00:10:16   make the perfect premium mattress that they sell online for a fraction of what it would

00:10:20   cost in a store. Casper's award winning mattresses are developed in house, it has a sleek design

00:10:26   and is delivered in an impossibly small box. In addition to their lovely mattress, Casper

00:10:30   now offers an adaptive pillow and soft breathable sheets as well. Casper's in house team of

00:10:35   engineers spent thousands of hours developing their mattress, who successively engineered

00:10:40   at a shockingly fair price and this is why. They have over 30,000 online reviews with

00:10:46   an average rating of about 4.8 stars which is very high indeed. That's higher than many

00:10:53   ratings you would find for almost any product ever made.

00:10:55   Their San Francisco Research and Development team have developed a proprietary foam that

00:10:59   relieves pressure and increases airflow. Then they combine it with a springy comfort layer

00:11:05   to contour to your body to keep you nice and cool as well. This means Casper mattresses

00:11:10   have just the right sink and just the right bounce. Casper makes quality mattresses at

00:11:16   great prices and are designed and developed in America. Mr Stephen Hackett, I believe

00:11:20   that you have a Casper mattress at home, do you not?

00:11:22   I do and it's great. The whole thing of it comes in a box and you open it and you move

00:11:29   around your house easily. That's totally a real thing. When we got ours, now it's been

00:11:33   in a couple years actually unboxed it on Periscope

00:11:36   because it comes in like a box the size

00:11:38   of a dorm refrigerator and queen size mattress inside

00:11:41   due to science and magic.

00:11:43   And we just moved about nine months ago

00:11:47   and I had to move that mattress,

00:11:49   get it done, go back in the box.

00:11:50   You get a, you get a reminder of like it's amazing

00:11:52   how small this thing is when it shows up

00:11:54   and what it becomes.

00:11:55   It's super cool.

00:11:56   - Buying a Casper mattress is so easy

00:11:58   and it's completely risk-free.

00:12:00   They offer free delivery and free returns

00:12:01   the US, Canada and now the UK as well. With Casper you can actually get to sleep on the

00:12:06   mattress before you make your decision. You try it out for 100 nights and decide if it's

00:12:10   the mattress you want to then spend a third of your life on. If you don't love it, they'll

00:12:14   pick it up and refund you everything. You can get $50 towards any mattress purchase

00:12:19   by going to casper.com/connected and using the code connected at checkout terms and conditions

00:12:23   supply as casper.com/connected and the code connected at checkout for $50 off. Thank you

00:12:29   so much to Casper for their support of this show and really I am. So I was looking across

00:12:34   the internet the other day and I went to my homepage which is fivetallpixels.net and I

00:12:39   found a link to something which is so in your wheelhouse that I'm not even going to bother

00:12:44   spending any more time trying to explain what it is.

00:12:47   So this is a Indiegogo campaign. Someone is working on a documentary about the Newtons

00:12:58   So for those who aren't familiar, I don't know why anybody wouldn't be familiar, right?

00:13:02   Come on.

00:13:05   It is a handheld PDA that Apple put out in the 90s.

00:13:09   Apple kind of actually--

00:13:10   What is a PDA?

00:13:11   Public display of affection?

00:13:12   That's what that is, right?

00:13:13   Yes, a personal digital assistant.

00:13:14   In fact, John Sculley, the CEO of Apple at the time, coined that term, actually.

00:13:21   And so it was a handheld thing, had its own operating system, it had a stylus.

00:13:26   big thing was it had handwriting recognition but at the beginning it wasn't very good which

00:13:30   led to many jokes.

00:13:31   Anyways, there is still to this day a community of people who are super into the newton.

00:13:36   I've got a couple of them.

00:13:37   I used one in college, I've talked about that before, but I don't use one regularly now,

00:13:42   but there are people who still do and this Indiegogo project is to kind of document that,

00:13:49   document the newton, where it came from, what happened to it, why it got canned, spoiler

00:13:55   Larry Lurtz, Steve Jobs did it when he came back.

00:13:58   And anyway, so I'll link to it.

00:14:00   They're trying to raise 17 grand

00:14:01   over the next eight weeks or so.

00:14:03   And I think it'd be fun to see.

00:14:05   - I'm kind of watching the video

00:14:09   that they put on their Indiegogo page right now.

00:14:12   And I like that every time that the guy,

00:14:13   like Noah, is talking to camera,

00:14:15   he has Final Cut in the background behind him.

00:14:17   It's like, I swear I am a video producer.

00:14:19   - That's right, it's how you know.

00:14:21   Yeah, it's how you know. - It's like, I promise.

00:14:22   I promise, look, I can use Final Cut.

00:14:24   This movie can be made.

00:14:26   How much did you pledge?

00:14:27   - 25 bucks.

00:14:28   - Okay, I thought you'd maybe go like,

00:14:30   what is the full on 6.99 producer credit?

00:14:33   - Yeah, the full John Syracuse, no, I just did 25.

00:14:36   - Well, it might be on you to push them over the edge.

00:14:38   So-- - It could be.

00:14:39   - Get on that.

00:14:40   I will also wait for them to contact you,

00:14:42   which I assume is imminent, to talk to you about your,

00:14:46   I'm assuming, extensive collection of Newtons.

00:14:50   - That's right, I think they're gonna just film

00:14:51   in the studio the whole movie.

00:14:53   So I saw a link online the other day about the Pixel and Pixel XL which I thought was

00:14:57   interesting. Basically Google have announced that they're going to be guaranteeing a total

00:15:04   of two years of OS updates to this phone. So the Pixel line came out in October 2016.

00:15:10   They've confirmed that it will get Android O in the fall of 2017 and Android P, well

00:15:15   presuming it will be called P something, in 2018. So that's it, that's the only two updates

00:15:21   that they're guaranteeing and then there'll be no guaranteed security updates until after

00:15:24   2019.

00:15:26   So I thought this sounded interesting and kind of short, like it sounded short to me,

00:15:30   like that the phone gets two years of updates.

00:15:33   And so I looked at what Apple's currently doing.

00:15:35   So the iPhone 5 is currently running iOS 10.

00:15:38   It's the oldest phone that will run iOS 10.

00:15:40   And that came out in 2012, so that's four and a half years and counting.

00:15:44   I mean, it could be cut off iOS 11.

00:15:47   You believe this is going to be the case, right?

00:15:49   Yeah, there's a lot of-- and I kind of wish Federico was here,

00:15:52   but there's a lot of stuff right now of if you're running a 32

00:15:55   bit app, that's like called out in settings

00:15:57   now on its own screen.

00:15:59   And developers are basically being

00:16:02   told that you've got to go to 64 bit

00:16:03   or your app's going to get dropped.

00:16:05   And so I think that's paving the way for these 32 bit devices

00:16:09   to be left behind with iOS 11.

00:16:12   So it's quite a bit less than the iPhone, right?

00:16:15   So like this Pixel phone will last for two years.

00:16:18   and the iPhone 5 will last for maybe like four and a half,

00:16:21   five years, something like that.

00:16:22   And I kind of found it interesting

00:16:25   to see a company call it out in advance, right?

00:16:27   To just be like, this is how long you've got left?

00:16:30   'Cause with Apple, it's like, it could be anytime.

00:16:31   Like you have no idea, right?

00:16:32   They don't talk about this stuff, but Google does.

00:16:35   And I can't decide if I'm like, how I feel about it.

00:16:38   Like I just think it's an interesting thing

00:16:39   that they've done it in advance.

00:16:41   And I wonder if it's that much of an issue

00:16:43   when people kind of replace their phones

00:16:45   every two to three years anyway.

00:16:46   Like this phone will be running the most recent version

00:16:50   of Android for like three years in total, right?

00:16:52   Before it maybe gets cut off.

00:16:55   And I don't really know how I feel about that.

00:16:58   Like I guess most people replace their phones

00:17:01   within that period of time anyway.

00:17:03   - I mean, at least people who buy things like the Pixel,

00:17:06   right, like the enthusiast phones.

00:17:08   Yeah, I don't know.

00:17:10   I mean, I think in one sense I like it

00:17:14   because with Android, with some manufacturers,

00:17:17   and this is a lot less now than it used to be,

00:17:19   but say for even three or four years ago,

00:17:23   you may only get a year or 18 months for some OEM phones.

00:17:26   And so yeah, two years isn't great,

00:17:28   but they're trying to get out ahead of that,

00:17:30   and so at least you have some sense of certainty.

00:17:34   For me, I think things like the Pixel,

00:17:38   I don't think someone's gonna,

00:17:41   I mean, maybe someone is,

00:17:42   but I think the Pixel, at least,

00:17:44   and like the Nexus phones before it,

00:17:46   is still an enthusiast device.

00:17:47   And so those people are gonna be paid every year,

00:17:49   every 18 months, every 24 months.

00:17:52   Where I would like to see this,

00:17:53   I mean, I'd like to see them support phones longer,

00:17:57   obviously, but I would like to see that from OEMs as well.

00:18:00   The Pixel sells a fraction of what something

00:18:03   like the Samsung Galaxy S8 will,

00:18:06   and those customers are beholden to Samsung for updates,

00:18:09   not Google.

00:18:11   I think on the whole, the whole Android ecosystem would do better to support phones longer,

00:18:15   but at the very least I give it a thumbs up for more transparency ahead of time.

00:18:22   iOS 11 and Apple Music TV shows.

00:18:24   So there was this Bloomberg profile of Jimmy Iovine, right, who was Beats and then now

00:18:30   works at Apple Music.

00:18:33   In this profile he mentioned that Apple may be planning as many as 10 original TV series

00:18:38   for the Apple Music platform.

00:18:41   with iOS 11 potentially bringing some more video focused features to Music.app.

00:18:47   You guys were talking about Carpool Karaoke last week and that it's been unceremoniously

00:18:52   delayed for an unspecified period of time.

00:18:56   And I wonder if this is going to be one of those iOS 11 features.

00:19:01   There's going to be more video and part of these videos and series.

00:19:04   But if that's the case, and iOS 11 is what's really going to bring about these new changes

00:19:10   to iOS and especially the music app which doesn't handle video very well right now honestly.

00:19:15   So I wonder what they're going to do with something like Planet of the Apps, right?

00:19:19   Like that's seemingly still coming soon and it doesn't really feel like Apple Music, on

00:19:25   the iPhone at least, does a good job of running video and they may be holding some of this

00:19:29   other stuff until iOS 11.

00:19:31   It's interesting, right?

00:19:33   Like, what is going on here I think is an interesting thing to think about.

00:19:37   Yeah, you could see them using the new TV app like Apple's names

00:19:42   TV apps only in the u.s. So it is but I wonder if

00:19:48   If this sort of content is a way to get that app elsewhere that maybe it doesn't have all the other stuff

00:19:54   We have here in the US but that they use that as a building block just cramming this in the music app

00:19:59   That's already like impossible to understand is not I don't think it's super great

00:20:04   But this is all stuff that comes with your Apple Music subscription though, right?

00:20:08   Yeah, but you could put an Apple Music tab in the TV app and think you'd be fine.

00:20:11   Oh, that's not confusing.

00:20:12   It's all very confusing.

00:20:15   Isn't a video tab in the Apple Music app just as good as an Apple Music tab in the video app?

00:20:20   Maybe. Or maybe they, you know, maybe they... I don't know. I mean, I would be fine having an

00:20:27   Apple Music app that has all this in it and I can just see my local music elsewhere, but that's me.

00:20:31   Yeah, you're gonna be in there.

00:20:31   because I'm old-fashioned.

00:20:33   All in all, though, I think that Apple,

00:20:36   if they're going to do this,

00:20:38   I always felt weird that it was just two shows, right?

00:20:41   There's Carpool Karaoke whenever it comes out,

00:20:43   and then there's whatever the other one with the escalator

00:20:45   that I can't even remember the name of.

00:20:47   - Planet of the Apps.

00:20:48   - Ugh.

00:20:49   But if they're gonna become a network, right,

00:20:52   or having the network effect,

00:20:53   then having all this stuff out at once

00:20:54   may make more sense, I don't know.

00:20:56   Clearly something's going on,

00:20:58   clearly they are moving into content

00:21:00   more than they said that they were going to at one point.

00:21:03   So, you know, but they gotta ship something, right?

00:21:05   Like, what happened to carpool karaoke?

00:21:07   - I was just gonna say, surprise, surprise,

00:21:09   an Apple product or endeavor has been delayed again.

00:21:12   - Well, they had to take people off carpool karaoke

00:21:15   to go back to working on the new Mac Pro, so it's all--

00:21:17   - And the car.

00:21:18   - Yeah.

00:21:19   - Everyone that works on carpool karaoke

00:21:20   now works on the autonomous car project, right?

00:21:22   Like, that's how that works, I think.

00:21:23   - I think it's kind of the same thing, maybe.

00:21:25   - Full cars, full carpooling.

00:21:27   - I mean, how can you sing

00:21:28   if your hands are on the steering wheel?

00:21:29   can't dance that way. Oh my word that's it that's what it is right? I'm an analyst.

00:21:34   All the tests that they've been doing it's all with celebrities. That's how it works.

00:21:40   Interesting. I saw on the verge some leaks of Fitbit's potential smartwatch

00:21:46   project. We were talking about this a while ago right? They bought Pearble. I was

00:21:51   talking to a friend recently who has a smartwatch, I can't even remember the

00:21:55   name of the company honestly that was also bought by Fitbit. Like this wasn't

00:22:00   the I think I remember at the time I was mentioning they bought some other stuff

00:22:03   that we'd never heard of but like there's a company that had this product

00:22:07   out which had like a super long battery life and it had a lot of the smartwatch

00:22:10   stuff in it but it just wasn't very high power tech but this was another thing

00:22:14   that Fitbit bought. And there's been some leaks that Yahoo grabbed a hold of

00:22:21   showing what might be their smartwatch project.

00:22:25   And it looks just like the Fitbit Blaze,

00:22:27   which was the smartwatch-looking Fitbit.

00:22:31   But this one has been developed in-house,

00:22:33   it's the first one developed in-house,

00:22:34   they're really the one thing else they've used

00:22:36   of an external product design company.

00:22:39   And now we have this potential thing.

00:22:42   - Yeah, I see a lot of Blazes.

00:22:46   Like, at the gym, I see them out and about,

00:22:49   I think people who like the Fitbit,

00:22:51   the Blaze is kind of a natural upgrade

00:22:53   if they don't really want the rest of the stuff

00:22:55   or the cost of the Apple Watch.

00:22:57   I don't know how much the Blaze is,

00:22:58   but it is not a good looking device.

00:23:01   And this thing, this rendering is also not great.

00:23:04   - Yeah, I think the Fitbit stuff might keep selling

00:23:08   'cause they do have some brand recognition, right?

00:23:11   In the same way that Garmin is still able

00:23:13   to sell all their crazy tracking stuff

00:23:15   'cause they're maybe a bit more focused, right?

00:23:18   Apple tries to do a little bit more, that their super fitness people might still gravitate

00:23:22   towards the brands that they know like Garmin and Fitbit. But I don't have a lot of faith

00:23:28   in Fitbit being around in like two years. No. I mean, it seems like they're spiraling

00:23:36   a little bit. I watched a video that Verge put out trying to compare all the Fitbit models,

00:23:41   and it's basically impossible. They have one every $50 from $100 to $300.

00:23:47   bucks and there's market research saying that their market share is

00:23:52   shrinking. They have, out of like just fitness trackers, they win, right? Like

00:23:57   there's no one else doing fitness trackers anymore, really, that matters. But

00:24:01   the Apple Watch is, you know, as it gets cheaper it is slowly eating into their

00:24:05   high end and I can't help but wonder if the Fitbit long-term would be something

00:24:10   like the iPod. It's great as a standalone thing until something converges it with

00:24:14   something else and it's better and I wonder if the Apple watches that thing.

00:24:17   Yeah, yeah I don't know. I think that there isn't really like this as we spoke

00:24:23   about a bunch of times this isn't like a huge market and that there really might

00:24:28   only eventually be room for one or two companies to do this and it's already

00:24:33   shrinking dramatically and I kind of wonder where it's gonna end up like I

00:24:37   really really do not see this as a market that could sustain a company that

00:24:42   wants to just do this. Right, and I'm worried that Fitbit moving into the smartwatch market

00:24:48   is a big mistake. That they're going to run into a lot of the same problems Pebble did,

00:24:54   that on iOS you're going to have limited functionality. Constantly chasing, constantly. And I would

00:25:02   imagine, I'm just going to go out on a limb, that iOS is a pretty important operating system

00:25:09   for Fitbit users and the blaze maybe as close as they can get but if they go further down

00:25:16   the smartwatch route that iOS users are going to be frustrated and then not buy one or just

00:25:21   like like the idea so much they just buy an Apple watch is going to work better.

00:25:25   Like it just seems like a dangerous thing to get into and an expensive thing to get

00:25:28   into.

00:25:29   But what I think it's like what else are they going to do right?

00:25:33   I feel like that's the problem.

00:25:34   They're kind of they're in this situation because it's like they know that their product

00:25:37   isn't selling as well as it used to since smartwatches so they're kind of

00:25:42   like well guess we're gonna make one of those now and so they bought a bunch of

00:25:45   technology and now they're making one as what I kind of see like if I was gonna

00:25:50   play an analyst for a moment as the kind of a last-ditch attempt to turn the ship

00:25:54   but I don't think it's gonna do that maybe they just start making their own

00:25:57   content everybody else is like that would do it they should make a

00:26:00   self-driving watch that streams online the video that it takes of people's

00:26:07   faces.

00:26:08   I think that's it.

00:26:09   There you go.

00:26:10   There you go.

00:26:11   Fitbit just write us a check.

00:26:12   You can have the idea anytime.

00:26:13   We're ready.

00:26:14   This week's episode is also brought to you by Pingdom.

00:26:16   You can start monitoring your websites and servers today at Pingdom.com/connected.

00:26:20   You'll get a 14-day free trial when you go there and then when you enter the offer code

00:26:24   connected at checkout, you'll get 20% off your first invoice.

00:26:27   Why would you want to monitor your websites and servers?

00:26:30   I hear you ask.

00:26:31   Why do you want to do that?

00:26:32   Pingdom detects around 13 million outages every month on the web, that's more than

00:26:38   400,000 outages every day, and that's just of the companies that are using Pingdom. So

00:26:43   the amount of actual outages that occur on the web must be exponentially more than that.

00:26:48   Why do you want to use Pingdom? Because they make it so easy. All you need to do is give

00:26:53   Pingdom the URL you want to monitor and they take care of the rest. You'll be immediately

00:26:57   alerted when they detect an outage so you can fix this error before it affects you.

00:27:02   Why do you want to do that? Well, you don't want people coming to your website and they

00:27:05   see that it's down. Also, Pingdom can use their 70 global test servers to emulate visits

00:27:10   to your site as often as every minute to check its availability. When they do this, they

00:27:15   can check if your whole site is up or down or even just little dependencies of your websites.

00:27:19   Websites are so complicated now, so sophisticated. You may have your e-commerce checkout functionality

00:27:25   go down even the rest of your websites up. So unless you want to pay somebody to be constantly

00:27:29   clicking everything on your website to make sure that it's all working correctly you need

00:27:33   Pingdom. Go to Pingdom.com/connected for a 14 day free trial and use the code connected

00:27:38   at checkout. You get 20% off your first invoice and you'll be the first to know when your

00:27:42   site is down. Our thanks to Pingdom for their support of this show and Relay FM.

00:27:48   So the rumored Apple voice assistant in a can, this is really getting difficult to talk

00:27:57   about these things, is rumored again.

00:27:59   And so there's a report, MacRumors quoting friend of the show, call friend of the show,

00:28:07   Ming-Chi Kuo saying that this Apple voice in a can could be coming as soon as WWDC.

00:28:16   The report says that its standalone,

00:28:19   or kind of its headline feature would be excellent acoustics

00:28:21   with a subwoofer and seven tweeters.

00:28:23   It would be powerful, like an iPhone 6 or 6S type,

00:28:29   you know, system on a chip,

00:28:31   and would be positioned for the high-end market,

00:28:34   entertainment, and of course, shockingly,

00:28:36   would have a higher price than the Amazon Echo.

00:28:39   - And Ming-Chi Kuo also says that he thinks

00:28:42   that there's like a 50% chance that this would come at WWDC,

00:28:45   as it stands right now.

00:28:46   - That number really cracked me up.

00:28:47   I don't remember seeing numbers in reports like this before.

00:28:51   I was like, I don't know, I could do it, I don't know.

00:28:52   50%.

00:28:53   Flip the coin. - I mean, everything has

00:28:54   a 50% chance of appearing at WWDC, right?

00:28:57   It's like it either does or it doesn't.

00:28:58   It's 50%.

00:29:00   I have a 50% chance of appearing at WWDC.

00:29:03   - If you wanna email us about how math works,

00:29:06   please email Myke directly.

00:29:07   - If it does or it doesn't, 50%.

00:29:09   - That's, so, I, when I first noticed, I thought, huh,

00:29:14   - WWDC's a weird place for this,

00:29:16   because this would be a consumer product.

00:29:18   This is not a new Mac Pro, right?

00:29:22   This is not a new MacBook Pro,

00:29:24   which has also made appearance at WWDC before.

00:29:26   But then I thought some more, Myke,

00:29:28   and time, time is in your favor

00:29:31   when you're thinking about things.

00:29:33   And I could see this following a very predictable pattern.

00:29:38   So several years ago,

00:29:40   I don't know what version of iOS it was,

00:29:43   There's a bunch of stuff like,

00:29:44   you should make your apps resizable,

00:29:46   and this is how you make your apps resizable,

00:29:47   and then we got the big iPhones, right?

00:29:50   You should make your iPads app resizable,

00:29:52   and we got SlideOver.

00:29:53   And it could be that SiriKit,

00:29:55   which was introduced last year in iOS 10,

00:29:58   that if this, if SiriKit gets a whole lot of stage time

00:30:00   and a bunch of new APIs and is more powerful, more flexible,

00:30:04   then I think that could pave the road towards this,

00:30:07   this sort of product is like perfect

00:30:09   for the iPhone introduction in the fall, right?

00:30:12   you have they try to pair something else with the iPhone, the an Apple voice in a can product

00:30:20   would be a very natural extension of that. You know, maybe the watch gets an update or

00:30:23   at least you know seasonal update and you talk about this thing. And so I lean towards

00:30:27   that as opposed to this thing coming out in June, but I think that if you're paying attention

00:30:32   the the bricks, you know will be laid down on the road for this to come a few months

00:30:38   But it doesn't need to come out in June though. They just need to show it.

00:30:42   No. I don't think they have to show it. I think they could be like, "SiriKit APIs!"

00:30:46   I don't think they have to show it. I think they can just talk about SiriKit and drop

00:30:49   a lot of hints.

00:30:50   No, I'm not saying they have to show it. I'm just saying that there is a non-zero chance

00:30:55   that they could, right? And just be like, "We have this new SiriKit and we want you

00:30:59   to work for it. Why? Because we have this thing."

00:31:01   Sure. I can tease it.

00:31:02   And Apple have done this so many times, right? Like, Apple Watch got it, right? They show

00:31:05   it like six months before, the reason we want you to make this new stuff is because we have

00:31:10   this thing. Like if it's not SiriKit, if it's like a whole new platform, right, which they

00:31:15   might well do, they kind of have to show the product if they want people to make stuff

00:31:19   for that platform. Because otherwise it's like, here is this new platform, we're not

00:31:23   telling you what it's attached to, might be like Voice OS or something, I don't know,

00:31:28   Siri OS. Could be anything and everything will be lowercase. And then they show it off

00:31:33   And they're like, hey, this is this product that we're making.

00:31:36   It's going to come out later this year.

00:31:38   Please make stuff for it.

00:31:39   And then in September, they bring it out on stage again,

00:31:42   and they show all of the awesome app partners

00:31:44   that they have that now work with the little home

00:31:46   kind of stuff.

00:31:46   Yes.

00:31:47   App demos, everyone's favorite part of a keynote.

00:31:49   Yep.

00:31:49   Here is a little car that drives itself.

00:31:51   Here is an Infinity Blade that you can talk to.

00:31:54   Infinity Blade's always my favorite.

00:31:56   Look at all the games that we made for this thing

00:31:58   that nobody wants to use.

00:31:59   Look at this, everyone.

00:32:01   So I have a lot of questions about this product.

00:32:05   I totally buy that the acoustic performance would be something

00:32:09   that Apple would pitch.

00:32:11   They have a history of that.

00:32:12   High five, high five.

00:32:14   I've got one sitting four feet away from me.

00:32:16   Jason has one sitting on his desk.

00:32:18   They still, to this day, sound amazing.

00:32:20   I still use it as a stereo sometimes

00:32:23   if we have people outside or something.

00:32:25   I can see them going down that road.

00:32:28   And you have Apple Music bundled in.

00:32:30   you can talk to the Apple voice in the can and ask it to play

00:32:34   whatever you want Apple music and it plays it for you.

00:32:37   Assuming you can Bluetooth pair it so you can listen to things like podcasts.

00:32:40   Or that SiriKit would get that functionality finally,

00:32:44   right? Which makes so much sense anyway. It should have this but doesn't.

00:32:49   Maybe like Overcast or Audible, these other audio apps could

00:32:52   could just be controlled with Siri. I'd love that as someone who listens to the podcast

00:32:55   all the time on my phone.

00:32:59   The other part of this is, if Apple's doing this,

00:33:03   how do they handle the design of it?

00:33:06   I don't necessarily mean how it looks.

00:33:08   I think it would look beautiful.

00:33:09   I made a joke in the show and they could just reuse

00:33:11   all the cylinder Mac Pro cases they built.

00:33:14   Stick a microphone in there.

00:33:16   - Yeah, I have complete faith that Apple can create

00:33:18   a nice looking product for their home.

00:33:19   - Sure, me too.

00:33:20   - Their Wi-Fi routers are, right?

00:33:23   They're just like these nice looking things

00:33:24   that they're not too much.

00:33:26   They haven't got like 65 antennas sticking out of them.

00:33:28   don't like spiders like some of them do, right?

00:33:31   - I remember when they used to make those.

00:33:32   - Yeah, back in the day.

00:33:34   - But really what I'm after in this conversation

00:33:36   is sort of the how it works.

00:33:38   So if you have an Echo,

00:33:42   you download the Echo app to your phone,

00:33:44   and it's fine, it's kind of basic.

00:33:45   Amazon's, at least their iOS app design isn't very good,

00:33:48   but it's basic.

00:33:50   And you can go in there

00:33:51   and you can set up your smart home stuff.

00:33:53   You can go in there and add skills to it.

00:33:55   And what I like about it is you have a whole history

00:33:58   of stuff, so if you're like, you can go back,

00:34:01   and sometimes the Echo will say, I can't answer that,

00:34:04   but I put results in the app for you.

00:34:07   And so you go in the app and whatever you look for,

00:34:09   if it can say it, is in there sometimes.

00:34:12   And Amazon falls back to the app,

00:34:15   and it's not the most graceful thing in the world,

00:34:18   but I think you need it on a product like this,

00:34:21   'cause a product like this cannot have,

00:34:23   at least at this point in technology, 100% hit rate.

00:34:26   It kind of needs a crutch to fall back on.

00:34:29   And Apple already has that with the way Siri works now.

00:34:33   So I talk to my phone.

00:34:36   Sometimes it can talk to me back.

00:34:37   Sometimes it needs to display something on the screen.

00:34:40   But how would Apple do that on a product like this

00:34:42   that your phone is not guaranteed to be around?

00:34:45   If this is in your kitchen, you're just making dinner.

00:34:48   You shout to the Apple box, hey, ask it a question.

00:34:51   And it says, oh, I can't answer that.

00:34:54   But I can show it to you.

00:34:56   How does it show it to you?

00:34:56   Does it push the notification to your phone?

00:34:59   Does it pop up on your phone screen?

00:35:00   - Straight on the lock screen.

00:35:01   Like that's, you know, like you don't even have to

00:35:03   open an app. - It's got to, right?

00:35:04   - It's just like, just go look at your phone right now,

00:35:06   it's on there.

00:35:07   Or like anything, right?

00:35:08   Like it just puts it on all of your devices.

00:35:11   - That's what I would hope,

00:35:12   because that is an important part of these products

00:35:15   and we like to think of them as voice products,

00:35:17   but they're really voice plus app products.

00:35:19   And there's something that I keep coming back to

00:35:21   and thinking about Apple would do it.

00:35:22   Apple has an opportunity as the platform owner

00:35:25   to put things on your lock screen,

00:35:27   or to have it show up on your watch if it knows,

00:35:30   Apple knows if your watch is unlocked.

00:35:32   Hey, if I talk to this box and it can't tell me what it does,

00:35:35   don't push it to my phone, push it to my watch

00:35:37   'cause you know I'm wearing it.

00:35:38   Like be smarter, we talked about this with continuity,

00:35:42   Apple has slowly been getting smarter

00:35:43   about what device you're on.

00:35:45   So if I'm on my computer and Messages is the foreground app,

00:35:50   then my iPhone screen right next to me in a dock,

00:35:54   literally two inches from my iMac doesn't light up because it knows I'm in

00:35:57   messages on the Mac. Well here's a question for you, right? Yes.

00:36:00   We've heard rumors of a next-gen Echo

00:36:04   that has a screen on it.

00:36:06   Would this Apple device maybe just have a screen on it?

00:36:10   I mean, I don't know. They definitely could, right?

00:36:14   None of the rumors indicate that at this point.

00:36:16   I think that something with a screen on it is sort of inherently

00:36:20   less likely to end up

00:36:22   looking nice, and like the Echo is not a looker, right?

00:36:25   The tall one, it's not an amazing piece

00:36:27   of industrial design.

00:36:28   - No, but it stays out of the way, right?

00:36:30   - But it's inoffensive, right?

00:36:31   'Cause it's in the kitchen, I don't have a screen

00:36:33   in my kitchen, I just have this tube, right?

00:36:35   If you just walk in, maybe you think it's a diffuser

00:36:37   or like something else you don't remember.

00:36:38   - Oh, something like kitchen appliance.

00:36:40   Any room that it's in, it looks like it could be

00:36:43   something else that lives in that room, right?

00:36:45   - And a screen has baggage attached, right?

00:36:48   I may be less likely to put that in my kitchen

00:36:51   or on my dining room table.

00:36:52   Like my favorite thing in all these ads for all this stuff

00:36:54   is like the Echo is like on the dining room table

00:36:56   next to a flower, right?

00:36:57   It's like, I'm not sure anyone's,

00:36:59   where'd the power cord go?

00:37:00   - They should just hollow out them inside

00:37:02   so you could put a flower in it, you know, perfect.

00:37:04   - You were just on fire with the product I just did.

00:37:07   - I know.

00:37:08   - So there's all those questions, right?

00:37:11   And there's also the dimension of this is an established,

00:37:15   it's a young market, but it is established, right?

00:37:17   Like I have two Echos,

00:37:20   I have the tall one and I have the dot

00:37:22   sitting here next to me in my office.

00:37:24   We have friends that have many,

00:37:26   I think Merlin has like two dozen dots

00:37:28   in his house in his office now.

00:37:29   This, on every surface, is covered in dots.

00:37:31   - They're all on one table, that's the problem.

00:37:33   - It's really weird, right?

00:37:34   Like, gotta spread 'em out.

00:37:36   And so would those of us who already have a product,

00:37:41   who already have workflows built around them,

00:37:44   would we, specifically you and I,

00:37:46   would you or I consider switching

00:37:48   to an Apple voice in a box if this thing is, is it all real?

00:37:52   - Yeah, I would, and the reason is because like,

00:37:55   Apple has all of the component parts there.

00:37:59   They just need to bring them together

00:38:01   in a way that makes sense.

00:38:02   Like the other day, we were playing around at home,

00:38:04   and Adina was using Siri to turn our lights on and off.

00:38:07   It's actually quicker to do that than to use the Echo.

00:38:10   The Echo takes longer to actually perform the action.

00:38:14   The difference is, we don't always have our phones

00:38:16   in our hands.

00:38:18   And our phones are not necessarily in the places

00:38:20   that we think they are to use the Ahoy telephone command.

00:38:24   But the echoes, we know exactly where they are

00:38:26   because they don't move.

00:38:28   So you either say it in a way where you're in the room

00:38:31   where you know what it is, you either look to it

00:38:33   so you can direct your voice to it, or you speak louder,

00:38:36   right, 'cause you know where it is,

00:38:38   'cause it's in this fixed place.

00:38:40   So for us, it's more likely to get the result that we want

00:38:43   because we don't have to find something first,

00:38:45   we just know where it is and so and also because it is as we've spoken about so many times

00:38:49   this dedicated thing which has like a million microphones in it it does a better job of

00:38:53   like picking up the voice but Apple's product could be better in many ways and one of the

00:38:59   key ones is the fact that it ties in with the OS so it could do stuff like hey I've

00:39:03   pushed pushed this answer to your watch right which is you said it's such a good idea you

00:39:07   just show me the text because Siri kit currently has this UI part to it as well right the fallback

00:39:14   part because it can't give you everything you need and I find personally

00:39:19   like the the echo like oh hey look in the app I find that really annoying

00:39:22   because I don't want to look in the app that's why I'm talking to you but if it

00:39:26   says it's on your watch well as you say my watch is on all the time like that's

00:39:30   a great way of tying all that stuff together so as long you know but there

00:39:35   are other parts of this which are trickier what will all my devices that

00:39:39   I'm buying to work with the Echo work with this thing.

00:39:43   No they won't, right?

00:39:45   Because it's all gonna have HomeKit in it

00:39:46   and we've spoken about this many times before,

00:39:48   at least in the UK, there are nowhere near

00:39:50   as many HomeKit devices as there are

00:39:51   Amazon Echo enabled devices.

00:39:55   I don't see Apple making like a web version of their API,

00:39:58   like it will be Apple's own APIs.

00:40:02   And so like my IFTTT stuff might not work,

00:40:04   depends on if they expand SiriKit that way.

00:40:06   It's like there are a lot of ifs,

00:40:07   Like, it has the ability to be better at the things

00:40:10   that it does than anybody else,

00:40:12   because I'm in the Apple ecosystem,

00:40:14   but all of the other stuff that makes me want

00:40:17   to use that device over Siri, it might not be still,

00:40:20   and that's where it might be an issue.

00:40:22   - I totally agree, and I have less IFTTTT stuff

00:40:29   than I think you or Federico do.

00:40:31   - I only have a couple of things,

00:40:32   but the things that I have to do--

00:40:33   - They're important.

00:40:34   really like being able to activate my canary with voice is something that I

00:40:39   really like to be able to do yeah yeah and I think that that is like the mess

00:40:46   the crux of like every conversation about moving to an Apple platform or not

00:40:49   right that it is always going to be more closed off mm-hmm for you know whatever

00:40:54   reason Apple squeezes into it but uh the thing for me is that I I have that stuff

00:41:02   and that the Echo does what I want it to do.

00:41:06   Like I'm not looking to replace it

00:41:08   because it does what I want.

00:41:11   Now, if the Apple thing comes along

00:41:14   and it does more of what I want,

00:41:15   or does what I want better,

00:41:17   then that would be potentially more interesting.

00:41:20   Especially if it sounded better.

00:41:21   You know, the Echo's not an amazing speaker.

00:41:23   Now it's fine for like Spotify in the kitchen,

00:41:25   but it's not great, it's not killer.

00:41:27   - Yeah, I would like an easier way

00:41:28   to be able to resume the podcast

00:41:30   that I'm currently listening to, right?

00:41:31   Like currently I have to ask my Echo to connect to my phone and then the Bluetooth.

00:41:39   I would just like to be like, "Hey, ahoy canister, play Overcast."

00:41:44   Sure.

00:41:45   Right, that's what I want.

00:41:48   And that would be brilliant.

00:41:49   But I have some more questions for you, right?

00:41:50   Because there are some other ways that Apple could go with this.

00:41:53   What if they added more sensors into their product?

00:41:56   Like my Canary, it has like temperature and humidity sensors

00:42:00   inside of it.

00:42:01   So I can get the temperature in the house

00:42:03   and stuff like that.

00:42:04   Now that would be really cool if you then had it connected

00:42:06   to some kind of thing like a Nest or like an EchoBee

00:42:10   or something like that.

00:42:11   One of these, like if there are, I think there is a

00:42:15   or a couple of HomeKit enabled temperature things

00:42:18   where it can just be like--

00:42:18   - Yeah, EchoBee works with HomeKit, Nest famously does not.

00:42:22   - No.

00:42:22   And then you could like see what the temperature is

00:42:25   and just have it fire off something like that

00:42:26   even when you're not at home, right?

00:42:28   'Cause you can use the HomeKit stuff outside of the house.

00:42:31   I guess this would also become the HomeKit hub

00:42:34   like the Apple TV can be, right?

00:42:35   So that would be kinda cool.

00:42:38   - Yeah, it would be,

00:42:41   I think that Apple could definitely tie that together.

00:42:45   And we've talked about HomeKit a bunch.

00:42:47   We wanna rehash all of that.

00:42:48   But it is better than I thought it was,

00:42:50   but it could do a lot more.

00:42:52   And I think a product like this could help entice

00:42:56   product makers to embrace HomeKit.

00:42:59   You know, we've heard many times that it's really hard

00:43:02   to develop a HomeKit product or service

00:43:06   because Apple's regulation over it.

00:43:08   And maybe this could be incentive, like,

00:43:10   "Hey, if you wanna be in our thing,

00:43:12   "you gotta use HomeKit,

00:43:12   "because we're not opening it up to IFT."

00:43:15   - Yeah, 'cause right now, all they've got is stick, right?

00:43:17   And not a lot of carrot, and this would be that, I think.

00:43:21   this would help device makers have a reason to jump through Apple's hoops and hopefully

00:43:27   at the same time Apple might try and make it a little bit easier or cheaper for someone

00:43:31   to do this because it becomes in their interest to have more and more HomeKit devices.

00:43:35   Like they're not silly, they know they don't have as many devices for HomeKit as Amazon

00:43:40   has and Amazon, I'm going to talk about a couple of these later on, Amazon has continued

00:43:44   to expand the things that have their assistant capability inbuilt in them at a rate which

00:43:49   which is exponentially faster than there are new HomeKit devices.

00:43:51   So Apple knows this, surely, and I'm sure that they're trying to do some things to

00:43:56   fix that.

00:43:57   And it may be that instead of something being HomeKit-enabled, that you can do something

00:44:03   with SiriKit instead, right?

00:44:05   That it talks to an app as opposed to a device.

00:44:07   There might be ways that they can try and make that a bit better, right?

00:44:10   A little bit more like the Amazon model.

00:44:12   There might be something that they can do there which still enables some things to work

00:44:16   and still keep security, right?

00:44:18   I don't know what that would be, but there might be something that they can do, right,

00:44:21   that makes them comfortable with that.

00:44:23   One other thing, talking about sensors, we'll have to put a camera in this thing.

00:44:26   Just completely killed the home security market.

00:44:30   Yeah, I mean, I think that they would run into the same problem that Amazon potentially

00:44:37   is, but they're just going to talk about in a minute that you've got privacy and, like,

00:44:41   just weirdness concerns with the camera.

00:44:43   I don't see Apple, I don't think I see Apple doing that.

00:44:46   Yeah, but what, you know, they could do what they always do, right?

00:44:49   They just say like, Oh, nobody ever see, you know, like they could,

00:44:52   they could run the privacy game on it.

00:44:54   Yeah. And,

00:44:55   and thinking how many people that we know who tape over their eyesights on their

00:44:59   laptops, right? And,

00:45:00   and if you want a product that's going to be in your kitchen or in your home all

00:45:03   the time, it's hard enough.

00:45:04   Some people are already worried about that it's listening all the time for its

00:45:07   wake word.

00:45:07   And people think that they're streaming out of the cloud and maybe they are.

00:45:12   Yeah.

00:45:12   But I think a lot of those people are the same people that would assume that

00:45:15   Apple will protect you. I know what you're saying, right? But yeah.

00:45:19   Oh yeah, there's a lot of like the weird like fear and certainly doubt situation

00:45:25   with that but I think a camera is probably too far from most people. I like

00:45:29   to think that they could do more sensors and other stuff and make it a better

00:45:33   home kit hub than just like just what the Apple TV is which is basically just a

00:45:37   gateway to the outside if you're not home. Do you think this is a product

00:45:40   coming? I do. It seems inevitable. It seems like that Amazon is doing it, Google's

00:45:49   doing it, Google just I think I just saw on Twitter so I don't know if there's all

00:45:53   the details so forgive me if I have something wrong but I believe they're

00:45:56   rolling out the multi-voice deal so if it's if I speak it has certain access

00:46:02   to things and if someone else speaks if I have a guest over they can't add things

00:46:06   in my calendar. This stuff is evolving and Apple was there in the early days

00:46:12   with the iPhone 4s with Siri and it has been stuck on the phone for a long time.

00:46:20   Now it's on the watch, now it's on the Mac which I always forget until

00:46:22   accidentally hit it and it's time for Siri to sort of expand to this next

00:46:27   category and like you said Apple has all the parts for this. They had

00:46:31   the voice assistant, they have the web services, they have a music streaming

00:46:35   service and they know how to make really nice looking things that sound good.

00:46:40   Like Apple has all the parts on the shelf, they just got to go do it.

00:46:44   Yeah I have this like, I've always had this theory, it's not an insanely complex theory,

00:46:49   that there are some products that Apple makes just because everybody thinks they're making

00:46:53   them, right?

00:46:54   Like a rumor begins and it gets to the point where they're like, well we've got to kind

00:46:58   of make this now because everyone thinks we're making it.

00:47:00   Like what?

00:47:01   Like what?

00:47:02   What comes to mind?

00:47:03   my mind with this. Whether it was a project or not, there were rumors for the iPhone for

00:47:09   what felt like so long, there was always a part of my mind that was like, if they're

00:47:13   not making this, they're going to have to make it at some point. You know they were

00:47:17   talking about, there was all this talk about, oh they were making this touchscreen product

00:47:21   and it was going to be the iPad and then they shelved it and made a phone? I've always

00:47:24   thought in my head, is that just because everyone thought they were making one? So they're

00:47:27   kind of like, well let's just do this now first. And then they moved on with it. I don't

00:47:31   But anyway, I always think there's got to be a certain point where everyone thinks we're

00:47:36   making this, maybe we should actually just move this product along quicker than we already

00:47:41   are or not at all.

00:47:42   So I think they're going to make a product like this just because it's become expected.

00:47:47   And it might even just be that we're looking at the wrong place and it's just the new Apple

00:47:51   TV that has this stuff in it.

00:47:53   There was that rumor a while ago, it could just be that.

00:47:55   There's all these two products together.

00:47:58   My complaint with that rumor has always been that

00:48:00   Amazon has proven that products like this

00:48:03   will want to live in the kitchen.

00:48:04   And I don't know about you,

00:48:06   but my big television is not in my kitchen.

00:48:08   - I agree with that.

00:48:10   I wonder if it, I mean, this is getting real convoluted

00:48:13   at this point, but it's like a multi-product,

00:48:15   like it's not like a multi-device product.

00:48:17   You buy like this one thing and it has these two components.

00:48:19   The only reason I think this is just,

00:48:21   I think Apple's going to want to try and push more and more

00:48:23   to make sure that people's TVs are connected

00:48:25   to their services, because they're going to start spending

00:48:28   so much money on content that they need to make sure that they're pushing that and whether

00:48:34   it's like a way cheaper Apple TV, like making the Apple TV more like the Chromecast or something.

00:48:41   You know, like so you buy this product which is the speaker and a tube and it comes with

00:48:45   something you just stick into the HDMI port and it's the TV thing. I don't know. I don't

00:48:50   know because it's a Bluetooth remote, right? So like anyway, I wonder if that there could

00:48:56   be some way of connecting those two things together, I don't know.

00:49:00   I'm interested to see where this goes just because the Echo has become something that

00:49:04   we really like in our home even to do the very limited things that we do with it, but

00:49:08   we wouldn't want to get rid of it.

00:49:10   The idea of having something that's maybe a little bit more integrated with the devices

00:49:14   that I use, if done well, could be something very compelling for us.

00:49:19   In a way that the Google Home hasn't been.

00:49:22   I didn't get a Google Home because I'm like, "We don't really seem to do anything better

00:49:25   for me than the Echo does. So why would I go down that route?

00:49:30   Yeah, I checked one out. It's been in my file cabinet for a while now. And for me, it had

00:49:36   the same problem that this Apple one could potentially have. Like, the Echo does what

00:49:40   I want it to do and it's already configured. Like, it already is all working for me the

00:49:44   way I want. And I like having one out here and one inside so I get the same experience

00:49:49   with places.

00:49:52   This week's episode is also brought to you by a new sponsor and that is BOMFEL. B-O-M-B-F-E-L-L.

00:49:58   BOMFEL, the online personal styling service dedicated to finding the right clothes for

00:50:03   you.

00:50:04   Shopping for clothes can be a stressful thing. Stores are busy, you don't know what you're

00:50:07   looking for and it can be tough knowing when something will suit you, especially if you're

00:50:11   shopping on your own. And even when you order online, you still run the risk of getting

00:50:15   caught out by return fees if something doesn't work right for you or fit even. BOMFEL takes

00:50:20   away all of this dress with a personalised service that's ready to help you step up

00:50:24   your look. When you sign up to Bombfell, you'll be matched with your very own stylist who

00:50:28   can help you find the right clothes and make sure they're right for you. Bombfell's

00:50:33   service is fully personalised and every piece is hand picked by your stylist. Bombfell look

00:50:38   through menswear collections around the world and then they send the pieces from those collections

00:50:42   that work the best for you. There are no hidden fees or catches, it's super simple and straightforward

00:50:47   and you will only pay for what you keep and there is no charge to send returns.

00:50:53   Bonfell doesn't make money on items that you don't want to keep so you know that they're

00:50:56   dedicated to making sure your picks are spot on.

00:50:59   If you return something it's of no benefit to them so they want to make sure that they're

00:51:02   getting stuff that fits your look.

00:51:04   Bonfell is completely flexible, you can push up, delay or skip shipments at any time and

00:51:09   you can even go in and say "hey I don't like this thing that you've selected for me because

00:51:13   they send you a little round up, just don't send this one" and then they won't.

00:51:16   It's really awesome to communicate with them and tell them what you're looking for.

00:51:20   So Steven, I believe that you got some stuff from Bonfer.

00:51:22   What do you think?

00:51:23   I have.

00:51:24   And so I went through the signup process.

00:51:27   So people may not know, part of these deals, we just sign up like normal people.

00:51:30   And so they have a style quiz when you go sign up and actually just load it up in a

00:51:35   tab.

00:51:36   And I don't know about you, Myke, but I'm very often confused by fashion terms, right?

00:51:41   So a question is like, what is your preferred fit?

00:51:44   Trim or relax?

00:51:45   I have an idea what that means, but pictures are helpful, and Bombfell uses pictures in

00:51:50   their style quiz.

00:51:51   So you can see, yes, I like shirts that fit me the way it looks like in this picture,

00:51:56   or I like jeans that are cut this way.

00:51:58   And for me, it takes some of the stress out of different companies have different terms

00:52:02   for different things, and Bombfell's style quiz makes it super easy to be like, "Yes,

00:52:06   I want something that fits me like it looks like in this picture."

00:52:10   Click the button, and you're good to go.

00:52:11   Do you like stuff that you got?

00:52:13   I do, yeah.

00:52:14   Yeah, so I got a couple shirts and a pair of shorts because I'm a dad. Hey shorts and

00:52:18   It's all great. I kept I kept all three pieces and I'm a big fan. It's all super great stuff

00:52:25   So we have an exclusive deal for connected listeners

00:52:27   You can get $25 off your first purchase at bomb fell by going to bomb fell comm slash connected. That's BOMB

00:52:34   F-e-double-l.com slash connected signing up is super easy when you sign up your stylists will email you with their selections for you

00:52:41   you

00:52:59   weeks ago we were talking about what we thought was going to be the Amazon Echo security camera.

00:53:06   You remember this? There was an image that somebody found online and it was what ended

00:53:11   up being the Amazon Echo Look and we were like oh can't wait for Amazon security camera.

00:53:15   Wasn't a security camera. It is, in case you don't know, the Amazon Echo Look is a product

00:53:20   that Amazon have made which is to allow for you to get some styling advice. Now I'm going

00:53:28   I'm going to put some links in the show notes to Amazon's page, to Dan Moran's post on six

00:53:32   colors because he is the resident Echo person, and also a YouTube video which kind of gives

00:53:40   a breakdown of what the product is.

00:53:41   I watched the video, I don't know if you've seen this video, but something I found very

00:53:44   interesting in this video is it features women almost exclusively, which is very different

00:53:48   for a consumer technology product video.

00:53:50   And I thought that was really cool and just a different thing to see.

00:53:53   So this product has a camera and you can see what your outfit looks like front and back,

00:53:58   which I think is really clever.

00:54:01   I can never see what I look like from the back because I don't have an elaborate system

00:54:04   of mirrors, but this product you turn around and it can show you.

00:54:09   It has a built-in blur and depth of field effect, so the images that you take they kind

00:54:13   of are framed nicely.

00:54:15   And you can share your images on social media and then it creates your own lookbook.

00:54:18   Are you familiar with what a lookbook is, Steven?

00:54:21   Only because I watch this YouTube video.

00:54:23   OK, I've heard this phrase before.

00:54:25   And a lookbook is basically like a selection of your outfits,

00:54:29   which you can share.

00:54:30   And this is like a big thing for people

00:54:32   that do share their outfit of the day and stuff like that.

00:54:34   Are you familiar with the hashtag #OOTD?

00:54:36   No.

00:54:37   I'm trying to show that I'm cool, right?

00:54:39   I think you're showing that you used Google before the episode.

00:54:41   No, this is stuff I see.

00:54:43   I see this stuff online, like my friends and people I follow.

00:54:47   I see these things.

00:54:48   Well, Myke, you live in a fashionable world city.

00:54:51   That's true.

00:54:52   I really do. London, Milan. I live five minutes from Arkansas.

00:54:55   Is that not a style icon city?

00:54:59   It is a city that I love but not a style icon.

00:55:03   No, I see what you're saying about this and I think that

00:55:06   it's easy for me to sort of poke fun of. In fact, in my blog post I was like, I wear a podcast

00:55:10   t-shirt and Chuck Taylors every day so

00:55:11   it's not for me. But there are people, there are a huge number of consumers

00:55:16   who this is like aimed squarely at and

00:55:20   What I find so interesting about this is that the Echo and the Google Home and the future

00:55:27   Apple voice in a canister, those things are all like general computing devices.

00:55:35   Really, I can ask it questions about lots of things.

00:55:38   I may not always know the answer, but it has its strengths and weaknesses, but it's sort

00:55:43   of general and broad.

00:55:45   This thing is designed for a very narrow, specific set of tasks.

00:55:51   I assume the rest of the Echo stuff is in here, where I can ask this thing the weather

00:55:55   and to add things to my calendar, but it is marketed as a fashion accessory, a fashion

00:56:01   technology hybrid accessory, dingus camera.

00:56:05   And for me, this is a very interesting take on it, that they're making something very

00:56:09   specific and targeting and marketing it in a very specific way is a big change.

00:56:14   So you would think that it was just like the regular Echo, but it isn't.

00:56:19   Does it not have the other stuff?

00:56:21   It has some of it, but not all of it.

00:56:23   And the thing that it's missing is super weird.

00:56:25   You cannot order products via this device.

00:56:28   What?

00:56:29   You can only order them via the app.

00:56:31   This was something that I found out from Dan's piece on 6colors.

00:56:36   That doesn't make any sense, right?

00:56:38   This thing, you would feel like you would be more likely to order stuff because it figures

00:56:42   out the clothes that you want and then you like look in the app and you're like

00:56:45   yeah order me that black t-shirt and it's like you can order in the app yeah

00:56:47   I mean or maybe it's like the bomb phil battery like it's helpful to see things

00:56:52   like see pictures and you say hey order another one of these shirts and maybe it

00:56:55   gets it wrong I mean maybe that's coming or maybe that involves more more AI and

00:56:59   machine learning and hashtag you know words that it doesn't have right now so

00:57:05   some of the ways that it does advance the assistant stuff is it adds something

00:57:09   called style check this is what makes this product different and they are

00:57:12   combining machine learning as you say and advice from fashion specialists so

00:57:16   you take these photos of yourself you upload them and it will give you an idea

00:57:20   as to what works best for you and it can suggest some other clothes you can kind

00:57:24   of show two different outfits and it will tell you what works and what

00:57:26   doesn't. Very interesting like I remember originally thinking that the echo was a

00:57:32   ridiculous product like you could go back in time and find the episode of

00:57:36   whatever show it was we were doing at the time where we were probably talking

00:57:39   about how stupid it was and this product isn't for me but it doesn't mean that it's stupid and

00:57:44   I'm not thinking of it that way anymore right and being like okay the echo look is not something that

00:57:49   I am interested in because I don't have a personal lookbook my personal lookbook would be full of

00:57:54   podcast t-shirts and pajama trousers I don't really think I need that so much but I know that many

00:58:01   people would I bet Adina would quite like the idea of a product like this because this is something

00:58:06   that she cares about more than me. I bet that Matt Alexander would care about this more

00:58:11   than me, right? Because he is more in the fashion world than I am.

00:58:14   It's very handsome.

00:58:15   So I'm wondering whether people that care about this stuff would actually care about

00:58:21   a computer algorithm trying to give them fashion advice. And so I expect that the reason that

00:58:26   they're talking about fashion specialists in this is because that's an important thing.

00:58:31   And I wonder if they were gonna, you know, maybe as this product starts to catch on a

00:58:35   a little bit, they could do some stuff to try and attach some brands or influences to

00:58:38   the system. And I was thinking like, what if there were like some people that you really

00:58:42   liked and their voice could come out of the thing instead of the regular voice?

00:58:46   So I could have Matt tell me that my outfit is "on point".

00:58:49   Wow, it's weird that we both went there. I don't even know if he even says that, but

00:58:54   we both think he says "on point". Or they could just have like little tips or trends

00:58:57   and stuff, but like considering this is a thing of a speaker, like it could actually

00:59:01   speak them to you which I thought would be kind of interesting and I guess in the app

00:59:05   you know people can they can like try and attach this stuff and show you how

00:59:09   somebody can talk to you

00:59:10   maybe like young people are into this we're not so young anymore I don't know

00:59:14   speak for yourself

00:59:16   yeah okay and they have an autumn like this visual log over time which is kind

00:59:20   of cool as well where so it can show you like these are the things that work for

00:59:24   you these are the things you want in the past and I think it can do this stuff

00:59:26   where it will suggest you like hey you wear this a bunch

00:59:29   stop wearing that.

00:59:30   So you know, you say to me like stop wearing that ATP shirt,

00:59:33   you wear that all the time.

00:59:35   So there is a lot in this product

00:59:37   and it has some foibles,

00:59:40   but I think that it is an interesting advancement

00:59:44   of the Echo technology.

00:59:45   I'm not so concerned about the fact

00:59:48   that it's a camera in the bedroom.

00:59:50   It's like, okay, look, I know that's kind of weird,

00:59:54   but you can choose if you want that

00:59:55   and you can choose how you want to live your life

00:59:57   and if you want it to be a camera in your bedroom or not.

00:59:59   But we have these devices, I already have probably three or four devices in my bedroom

01:00:04   that have a camera on them.

01:00:06   They just don't face me.

01:00:08   You can arrange your bedroom in such a way that your camera isn't facing you.

01:00:12   Do you know what I mean?

01:00:14   We both sleep with phones by our bedsides and iPads.

01:00:19   They all have cameras in them.

01:00:21   You just adjust as necessary.

01:00:23   Just don't point it at the bed if you don't want it focused on the bed.

01:00:28   arrange it the way that you want. This is an interesting product and I'm happy to see

01:00:33   Amazon kind of do something a little bit outside of the box again because the Echo worked for

01:00:38   them. That was out of the box when they announced it. The Echo Look, similar kind of idea.

01:00:43   Yeah, yeah. Even if it doesn't take off, I applaud them for trying something that is

01:00:51   new and like we said, specific. And it goes along with, I mean Amazon has been working,

01:00:56   Jeff Bezos has been vocal about this, working towards being more of a fashion

01:01:02   brand, right? They have, I heard some of the podcasts that they have a like a

01:01:08   fashion office in New York City, like they're working, they're designing,

01:01:12   and I think this is it this is gonna be a big push for Amazon this year and into

01:01:17   the future, and Amazon is unique in that it can partner retail with like high

01:01:24   technology and this is just another good example of that. But there's more going

01:01:29   on with the Amazon ecosystem stuff right?

01:01:33   Mm-hmm yeah so there's an article tech crunch

01:01:38   Amazon has an update for the the voice engine I guess is what we would be

01:01:44   calling it that yeah it's this is hard to talk about but basically it can

01:01:52   whisper, it can take a breath to pause for emphasis, adjust the rate, pitch, and volume

01:01:58   of speech, and basically to sound more natural and more, I guess, approachable.

01:02:06   Which is good, I mean, even if you paid attention to Siri, that voice has changed over the years.

01:02:13   The first one, if you go back and use Siri on, you know, back in like the, when it was

01:02:19   the 4S, you know, that era sounded much more robotic and much more cold than it does now.

01:02:27   And this is just Amazon advancing their language engine.

01:02:31   So there's more coming here to make it sound, I guess, more and more realistic, right? Like,

01:02:35   I guess that's their idea. I don't know if we need that, like I don't know how realistic

01:02:41   the voice needs to sound, but I guess it's kind of cool that it is going to get better.

01:02:45   I wonder if like making the voice sound more normal that when it gets things wrong it might

01:02:50   be more annoying?

01:02:51   Maybe.

01:02:52   Like there's this disconnect of like that's a robot where I'm kind of not so frustrated

01:02:58   when it gets it wrong because I remember it's a robot but if it starts to sound like an

01:03:01   actual human being will I get more annoyed when it gets stuff wrong?

01:03:03   Or will I be less annoyed because it's got feelings?

01:03:06   I don't know.

01:03:07   I mean as long as it doesn't make stupid jokes about it like Siri does then I'm fine.

01:03:10   That's the thing that kills me with Apple.

01:03:13   I want to mention before we wrap up, and ratchet up, that's a new phrase that I'm working

01:03:19   on.

01:03:20   I've spoken so many times about the fact that I've been trying to get my Dyson fan to integrate

01:03:26   with my Echo to varying levels of success.

01:03:29   Well, Dyson might fix this for me because they've announced a new product that integrates

01:03:34   with it.

01:03:35   So it's called the Dyson Hot Cool Air Purifier, Dyson Pure Cool Link Purifier, Hot and Cool

01:03:42   Link Air Purifier.

01:03:44   I'm going to get this eventually.

01:03:45   It is the Pure Hot and Cool Link Air Purifier.

01:03:48   There we go.

01:03:49   I did it.

01:03:50   I did it.

01:03:51   Okay.

01:03:52   I did it.

01:03:53   It's because they've had this product, right?

01:03:54   It was called like the Cool Link and then they have one called the Hot.

01:03:55   This costs $600.

01:03:56   Yeah, it does.

01:03:57   Yeah.

01:03:58   Uh, and basically they've just been bolting the words on.

01:04:01   The product's got more and more advanced.

01:04:03   It's added new word every time.

01:04:05   Not a great--

01:04:06   It is.

01:04:07   So it's the fan I have, which is a hot and cold fan.

01:04:09   But it also adds an air purifier.

01:04:11   This is a separate line that's meshing two things together.

01:04:15   So this is an air purifier that can do hot and cold.

01:04:17   And it also has an app, which you can connect it

01:04:21   to the internet.

01:04:22   And then eventually, later on, the product's out now.

01:04:24   But soon, they're going to have it integrate with the Echo

01:04:27   stuff as well.

01:04:28   It is mega expensive.

01:04:29   this is exactly what I'm looking for in a product. Eventually we'll probably sell the

01:04:34   one that we have and then buy this because it's exactly what I've been looking for but

01:04:40   it's just mega expensive but it's what I've been looking for so eventually it will make

01:04:46   its way into my home I think. Air purification, we don't have that you know, it would be a

01:04:52   benefit I guess. Health, it's all about the health right? That's the thing, health. Air

01:04:57   I'm sure it's good for your health.

01:04:59   That's how I'll sell it.

01:05:00   You know, oh no, of course we need to spend $600, this is good for the health.

01:05:05   You don't sound too impressed about this.

01:05:07   I mean I think that Dyson stuff is overpriced and kind of ridiculous.

01:05:11   But hey.

01:05:12   Do you own any Dyson products?

01:05:13   No.

01:05:14   Alright, but they're always the best products in their categories.

01:05:16   Their vacuums are so good.

01:05:17   They look beautiful.

01:05:19   It's like a piece of sculpture in your living room.

01:05:20   I'm telling you man, like if you don't own any Dyson products you should get, you should

01:05:24   at least get a vacuum.

01:05:25   this stuff is amazing. It is the most Apple-like company that I have used the products of.

01:05:32   Like you even get this little booklet in the product which tells you the history of them.

01:05:36   And it's like James Dyson is the guy. He's still there. He still engineers all the stuff.

01:05:42   They're very Apple-like. And every product of theirs that I have, we have two now, I

01:05:46   am so impressed by the way that it's made, the way that it works, all of the things that

01:05:52   you add to it. They are a very, very cool company and Apple liking the way that

01:05:57   their stuff is more expensive than anybody else's but I think for

01:06:00   good reason. Can I tell you on the new face of Dyson did I mention that at all?

01:06:04   Huh. Mm-hmm. What was it? Invoice 1000? The thing that that I mean the Dyson stuff

01:06:12   whatever but you can just buy anything with with the service in it it's crazy

01:06:18   like they they have taken the Windows approach to this of hey we make

01:06:22   software really or an OS kind of and just stick it in whatever you want and

01:06:27   ecobee has an upcoming thermostat that has the service built-ins you killing me

01:06:32   killing me why are you doing this to me it's just all over the place mm-hmm

01:06:36   thank you for listening to this week's episode of connected if you wanna find

01:06:40   our show notes for this week go to relay that FM slash connected slash one four

01:06:44   If you want to find Stephen online, he's at ismh, and he's at 512pixels.net.

01:06:49   I am at imike, I-M-Y-K-E, and Federico should be back next week, I hope, if he's—I don't

01:06:55   know what he's doing, actually.

01:06:56   He's probably preparing for his release notes talk, right?

01:06:58   That's what I expect he's doing.

01:06:59   He's—

01:07:00   I think he's watching the Microsoft education events going on right now.

01:07:03   He's watching that, I think.

01:07:04   Take notes.

01:07:05   Okay.

01:07:06   Needs some Microsoft education.

01:07:07   Everybody does, right?

01:07:08   That's what we're all after.

01:07:09   He's at macstories.net, and AppStories as well.

01:07:10   He's a new podcast.

01:07:11   You can go check it out.

01:07:12   is at the TGVITI CCI. Thanks for listening, thanks to our sponsors this

01:07:17   week, Bombfell, Pingdom and Casper and we'll be back next time. Until then, say

01:07:22   goodbye Steven. Adios.