137: Fancy Screwdrivers


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:07   Welcome to Connected, episode 137.

00:00:11   The show is made possible this week by our sponsors Encapsula, Pingdom, and Eero.

00:00:16   I'm your host, Stephen Hackett, and I'm joined this week by my friend and yours, Federico Vittucci.

00:00:21   Hey, Stephen.

00:00:22   Hey, buddy.

00:00:23   How's it going?

00:00:24   It's good. It's just us this week.

00:00:26   Yeah, as you as you might have seen on Twitter our friend Myke he posted a picture of his shoelaces

00:00:33   Which broke recently so because of that sign that kind of omen he decided to leave connected

00:00:40   Because it was a an indication that it was time for a career change

00:00:43   So unfortunately Myke won't join us this time or for the foreseeable future Myke is gone

00:00:49   It's a real bummer that made me sadder than the jokes about Myke being dead, honestly

00:00:54   Myke is coming back, Myke is coming back. He's somewhere on, I think he took a train

00:01:02   to nowhere. I just saw that he was on a train, so maybe we'll come back eventually, maybe

00:01:08   not. It depends on the efficiency of the train system in the UK, I guess.

00:01:13   Yeah he's at the OOL conference with a bunch of our friends, so if you're at OOL, go touch

00:01:17   Myke's arm and tell him it's from us. He'll know what it means.

00:01:21   Please do that.

00:01:22   weird. Okay so we have some follow-up this week. We have excited, I'm excited

00:01:26   about our show, we have a lot of good stuff coming, but first we have to do

00:01:29   follow-up. And last week we spoke about the WWDC meetup. As predicted it sold out

00:01:35   very quickly. There is a waiting list so if you are coming to WWDC and want to

00:01:42   come but miss the ticket window sign up for the waiting list. You never know what

00:01:45   could happen. And we had a listener write in, I can't find the tweet now, but

00:01:50   But someone already asked us, the three of us,

00:01:53   if we were going to WWDC itself.

00:01:56   So I can answer for Myke and I at least

00:01:58   that we are not, I have never entered the lottery to go.

00:02:01   WWDC is a work trip for me.

00:02:03   You know, we have a lot of shows to produce.

00:02:05   We have our event.

00:02:06   And I just don't feel like I could do

00:02:08   what I need to do for relay

00:02:10   if I was attending the conference.

00:02:12   And you know, I do want to cover it,

00:02:13   but they've done such a good job at getting videos out

00:02:16   and they stream the State of the Union and this stuff.

00:02:18   Like, it's really for me, there's not a huge incentive for me to go when I can follow it

00:02:25   better from the outside.

00:02:27   I don't need access to the labs or anything because I'm not a developer.

00:02:31   So yeah, so Myke and I don't enter.

00:02:32   I don't think we ever will.

00:02:33   What about you, Federico?

00:02:36   Like last year, I entered the lottery and I got a ticket, so I'm going.

00:02:41   For my annual iOS review, and especially the technical aspects, I need to be able to attend

00:02:47   sessions and to talk to developers and to talk to engineers and get all the in-depth

00:02:53   information that I need as quickly as possible, because my work on the iOS 11 review will

00:02:58   start the moment the keynote is over. And for that reason, we discussed this last year,

00:03:06   even if I'm not a developer by trade, I need that kind of developer knowledge and access

00:03:12   to people and engineers and just being able to understand all the technicalities of iOS

00:03:17   11 or whatever it's going to be called.

00:03:19   So yeah, I'm going to be at the sessions, I'm going to hang out by the labs talking

00:03:24   to developers, talking to engineers, trying to get as much as possible out of the event,

00:03:29   taking my notes, putting together all my mind maps and getting to work as soon as possible.

00:03:35   Yeah, you'll be our main on the inside this year.

00:03:38   Yeah, I guess.

00:03:42   Yeah. So we spoke last week a lot about the Mac Pro. That news broke

00:03:46   basically like an hour before we recorded last week. A couple pieces of follow-up there.

00:03:50   I wrote a thing about the cheese grater Mac Pro, so the form factor that preceded

00:03:55   the trash can Mac Pro, and

00:03:58   kind of talked about its original design. It came from a G5

00:04:02   and the expansion that it brought to the table. And it really was

00:04:07   a fantastic layout and fantastic machine.

00:04:12   But like the Mac Pro now, it kind of got long in the tooth.

00:04:16   They went a long time without updating it.

00:04:19   2010 was like the last real actual update

00:04:21   and then 2012 was kind of just a spec bump.

00:04:24   And it never got things like Thunderbolt,

00:04:27   or you know, it just, it kind of languished a little bit

00:04:29   and then they switched gears to use, you know,

00:04:32   the cylinder design which has failed since then.

00:04:35   So I also put something together

00:04:36   about what I would want in the new Mac Pro

00:04:39   and some expansion and expandability that,

00:04:42   you know, I'm a pro user of the Mac

00:04:44   and I bought an iMac and I'm really happy with my iMac,

00:04:47   but it would be nice, as I said last week,

00:04:50   when it's time to replace this computer

00:04:51   at some point in the future,

00:04:53   I would like to have the option at least of a Mac Pro.

00:04:55   And so I kind of, you know,

00:04:57   if I could have a machine just the way I want it,

00:05:00   what I would want in it.

00:05:01   And that blog post is written without any consideration

00:05:06   things like PCI lanes or you know like

00:05:08   it's just this is what I would like to

00:05:10   see and there are obviously limitations

00:05:15   and things Apple has to balance and work

00:05:16   with and I really think balance like

00:05:18   that's the word I keep coming back to

00:05:19   and thinking about this machine that the

00:05:22   the cheese grater had that you know it

00:05:24   was big and heavy and it sat under your

00:05:25   desk but it had a lot of power and a lot

00:05:27   of expandability and the there's the

00:05:30   trash can got rid of almost all of it

00:05:32   you could you could add RAM and that was

00:05:33   really about it you could add it as a

00:05:35   SSD but not at all as flexible as the one before it. And I think moving forward

00:05:40   Apple's got to find the balance right there are people who will want them who

00:05:44   do want them just re-release the cheese grater put Thunderbolt 3 on it but let

00:05:48   me put you know four hard drives in it let me do all this stuff and I don't

00:05:51   think that's the way to go I think the machines got to be modern in the sense

00:05:55   that it's all SSD that you're not you know leaving a spot for an optical drive

00:05:59   to put in it, but it also has to have support for what pros are using. So it

00:06:05   still needs dual Ethernet. I think a mistake on the 2013 Mac Pro was they got

00:06:10   rid of audio in, it was just two audio outs, and there are certain applications

00:06:15   that it is nice to have audio into a computer that should come back. You know,

00:06:19   you should have card slots, but I don't think you need room for, you know,

00:06:23   rotating storage. Like, you just got to find that balance, right, of what pros are

00:06:26   are using today and what pros will use in the future.

00:06:29   And I hope they get it right.

00:06:30   I mean, it's clear they're taking their time.

00:06:32   I listened to Exponent, Ben Thompson's podcast,

00:06:36   and they were sort of joking that only Apple

00:06:38   would take potentially a year, 18, 24 months

00:06:42   to design a PC case, right?

00:06:44   Like, this is a very simple recipe,

00:06:46   but Apple's gonna do it with their own take,

00:06:48   and I just hope they make those trade-offs

00:06:49   the right way this time.

00:06:51   - So when people ask about wanting a new Mac Pro,

00:06:54   are they talking about, they want a box where there's SSD,

00:06:59   there's a bunch of ports like Ethernet, like audio,

00:07:02   like Thunderbolt, maybe USB, C or whatever,

00:07:06   and then they want to be able to change the GPU inside,

00:07:10   I guess with the PCI Express configuration.

00:07:13   So that's why they want a box where there's a bunch of SSD,

00:07:16   there's a bunch of ports on the outside,

00:07:19   and then when the time comes,

00:07:20   you can put in the GPU that you want.

00:07:22   Is that even possible?

00:07:23   Yeah, I think it is and my argument was Apple's GPU that you just get from the

00:07:29   store should be really good. Like it's time to quit, you know, putting wimpy

00:07:34   GPUs and Macs. I put a nice one in there, but have a slot available if I want to

00:07:39   add a second one or if I need like something like a video capture card or

00:07:43   audio card. There are other uses for PCI besides just GPUs and Apple's bet with

00:07:52   the 2013 Mac Pro was going to be put all that in a chassis outside. Well that was

00:07:57   never going to work unless Apple built, I really think Apple should have built a

00:08:00   chassis. If they were really serious about that they should have come out

00:08:03   with a PCI breakout box that looks good, worked well, and was fully supported. But

00:08:09   that never really took off and there are people, I know people in like audio

00:08:12   production in particular, who have stuck with the cheese grater because they have

00:08:16   audio capture cards or they have cards with plugins or something on them that

00:08:20   that they need brought into the Mac.

00:08:23   And maybe that is old fashioned,

00:08:27   but when you're talking about the pro market,

00:08:29   you have to deal with legacy hardware to a degree.

00:08:32   Like if there's any machine that they should keep USB-A on,

00:08:35   it's this machine, at least for a little while.

00:08:37   Now, by the time this thing ships in 2023,

00:08:40   or whenever they finally get it done,

00:08:42   that may sound silly, but pro users hold onto hardware,

00:08:46   external hardware, components of their setup

00:08:48   for a long time, and this machine

00:08:50   be able to support that and PCI is definitely a way to do that.

00:08:53   Okay, makes sense.

00:08:54   Yeah.

00:08:55   I know you're super interested in buying a new Mac.

00:08:57   Yeah, for sure.

00:08:58   And I'm getting the new Mac Pro when it comes out, you know?

00:09:00   I promise you in a couple of years I'm getting the new Mac Pro.

00:09:06   You can bet on it, actually.

00:09:08   We'll follow up in a couple of years time with my new Mac Pro.

00:09:11   Yeah, for sure.

00:09:13   So your favorite ride sharing service is in the news again.

00:09:16   Why are we even talking about it?

00:09:18   because we talked about it once and now it's in the follow-up category.

00:09:23   Okay, so tell me what is happening here.

00:09:26   So, I can't even do it.

00:09:29   So, uh...

00:09:30   What's the name of the startup, Steven?

00:09:33   Blah-blah-car.

00:09:34   Blah-blah-blah-car.

00:09:35   What have they done this time?

00:09:38   Do they have a new mascot?

00:09:39   Do they have a new commercial?

00:09:40   No, the creepy purple guy is still the mascot.

00:09:42   So we should tell people, how did you first come across this company?

00:09:45   Like, there's got to be a little background here.

00:09:48   It was two years ago, and I was on summer vacation in southern Italy, and I drove there

00:09:55   with my girlfriend.

00:09:56   It was a seven hour car trip.

00:10:00   And one of my friends who also participated on this trip, we were a bunch of friends,

00:10:06   he didn't actually use his own car.

00:10:08   And he didn't get there by train either, he used, he told me, "blah blah car", which is

00:10:14   this ride sharing service where you go to this website and you say "I need to go there"

00:10:20   and you find a driver, so a person, a common person, who's driving there anyway and has

00:10:27   signed up for the service to say "if there's other people who need to go to the same place

00:10:31   where I'm going, at this date, at this time, they can come with me". They pay a small fee

00:10:36   and we share the ride together and it's a way to, they call it a "ride sharing", pool

00:10:43   sharing whatever, I don't know what the proper terminology is. But it's a way for people

00:10:48   to save on, you know, instead of taking a bunch of cars, you hop into a stranger's car

00:10:57   thanks to the BlaBlaCar service. And in theory, this friend, he was really happy about the

00:11:04   service and told me he met some wonderful people of all kinds of people using BlaBlaCar.

00:11:10   When I came back two years ago, so we're talking 2015, I came back on the show and I told you guys about this amazing

00:11:17   service that I discovered. The problem was, after a few months,

00:11:20   we came across a commercial of BlaBlaCar on the Italian television

00:11:26   and I took a bunch of photos. And the problem with this commercial was they used a creepy, ugly,

00:11:32   purple blob

00:11:36   figure with human eyes and a human mouth that was super unsettling and super creepy.

00:11:44   And since I took that photo, Steven has saved the photo in his favorites, and when iMessage

00:11:51   came out last year, and when iMessage stickers, he used a custom iMessage sticker app to turn

00:11:57   the purple guy into a sticker.

00:11:59   So now whenever we're talking about something funny on iMessage, he sticks the purple guy

00:12:04   from the BlaBlaCar commercial on the messages, which is super creepy because he has these

00:12:09   big eyes and the mouth with the red lips.

00:12:13   There'll be a photo of him in the show notes.

00:12:15   Please don't.

00:12:16   If you go to the show notes page, I'll embed it there.

00:12:18   Please don't.

00:12:19   It's, it's, it's, I don't know.

00:12:20   Yes, there's a, I'm looking at, in the chat room, there's also another photo of the same

00:12:27   monster with this green companion.

00:12:32   The blue guy uses an iPhone and the green friend uses a Mac to reserve a spot in a blah blah car.

00:12:40   So anyway, they're raising money, there's an article on TechCrunch, they faced some growing

00:12:47   pains as a European startup.

00:12:50   They're raising money, they want to expand in Russia, and they see an opportunity there

00:12:55   to expand the market.

00:12:57   Again, I'm not even sure what we're talking about this, I guess it's just become sort

00:13:01   of a meme of connected to keep up to date on bubble car news.

00:13:06   Also, I have a saved Google News search for it.

00:13:08   Really?

00:13:09   That's why.

00:13:10   Really.

00:13:11   I do.

00:13:12   I don't even know what to say.

00:13:13   So if you're using bubble car, my friends still use it, by the way.

00:13:18   And I'm never, ever gonna use bubble car.

00:13:21   I don't want to get into a stranger's vehicle.

00:13:26   And I'm never gonna have strangers in my own car.

00:13:29   So I don't want to be a user on BlaBlaCar and I don't want to be the one who rents the

00:13:33   car for other people.

00:13:37   Other people like it, so you know.

00:13:39   Yeah, they're raising money, they're betting the company on the Russian market.

00:13:45   Yeah, I should probably drive my car to Russia and see what happens with BlaBlaCar.

00:13:50   I think you should.

00:13:52   So we're going to get into some topics, but first I want to thank our first sponsor, and

00:13:58   is encapsula. encapsula is a multifunction content delivery network that boosts the performance

00:14:04   of your website protects it from denial of service attacks and secures it from bad guys

00:14:08   while ensuring high availability. websites of all sizes can be attacked. It really happens

00:14:14   every day. criminals use these giant botnets to scrape website content. They break into

00:14:19   databases bring sites down again with these denial of service attacks. encapsula network

00:14:25   holds three terabits per second of on demand scrubbing capacity and can process 30 billion

00:14:30   attacks per second.

00:14:32   Those numbers are just crazy to me.

00:14:34   This is why their network has successfully defended some of the largest website attacks

00:14:38   on record.

00:14:40   You can see these attacks as they happen on the encapsula dashboard, and they help you

00:14:44   adjust your security policies on the fly.

00:14:47   And if you are attacked, encapsula's powerful CDN means that your content is delivered to

00:14:52   your customers quickly anyways.

00:14:54   You don't want people bailing on your site waiting for it to load, and with Encapsula

00:14:57   they would have no idea that something bad is happening.

00:15:01   As a listener of this show, you can get one whole month of service for free.

00:15:06   All you need to do is go to Encapsula.com/connected.

00:15:16   This is where you can find out more about Encapsula's service and also claim your free

00:15:20   month.

00:15:21   much to encapsulate for their support of this show and relay FM. So we got some news last

00:15:27   week that Walt Mossberg is planning to retire in June.

00:15:32   Yeah, this is big news, especially if you follow the tech news scene and in general,

00:15:38   you know, Mossberg has been a journalist and a reporter for almost 50 years, I think 47

00:15:44   years, but that's such an incredible career and

00:15:47   I've been reading some articles on the impact of Mossberg's writing

00:15:53   there's an excellent one also from Ben Thompson that he posted yesterday on on his blog and

00:15:59   you know just go read the stories because I think

00:16:02   you know, it cannot be understated the kind of

00:16:05   impact that Mossberg's career had on our industry and just you know

00:16:11   the sort of brand that he built. And I think Thompson did an excellent job in describing

00:16:16   how he was able to transition at a defining moment of the PC industry, when personal computers were

00:16:27   starting to become truly for everyone. Mossberg was able to build a brand based on explaining

00:16:34   technology for normal people. And he's the man who, when a new Apple product came out,

00:16:44   Steve Jobs would call up Mossberg and give him a preview. That's just the kind of journalist

00:16:50   and reporter that he is, and now it's gonna stop writing for his current gig. We don't

00:16:58   know what he's gonna do, he says he's gonna do more writing. I wouldn't be surprised to

00:17:03   see an indie Mossberg someday. I think that would be awesome, but I guess we'll see.

00:17:07   Yeah, I'm kind of hoping for a book, honestly, of like his...

00:17:11   That too, yeah. Yeah, that would be great.

00:17:13   His time, because I mean his... and Ben goes into this, there's a thing on the verge about it as

00:17:19   well, obviously, but Mossberg, his career started at the perfect time. You know, he was covering the

00:17:28   the government and like the intelligence commit, you know, intelligence agencies of the US government

00:17:33   and became the voice of the consumer right as the sort of personal technology revolution

00:17:40   was taking off. And the timing was perfect. And so he kind of did two things. He paved

00:17:48   his own way, right? He created his own career, but he also set up a template for other people

00:17:52   to do it. And there are so many people now in this field, including the two of us, who

00:17:58   cover technology as a subject, you know, like someone would cover the government or other

00:18:03   industries in the past. And his legacy is really incredible. And I would definitely

00:18:09   encourage you to go check out the links in the show notes. There's a, the New Yorker

00:18:13   did a profile on him in 2007, and it's basically Mossberg holding court. All these companies

00:18:19   come to him and they want his input and he's very clear with them saying, "Hey, I'm not

00:18:23   a consultant, but I can tell you what I think."

00:18:27   And the New York article goes into Mossberg's power in this space being able to make or

00:18:33   break a brand and make or break a product because he is so well respected and so widely

00:18:40   read both at the Wall Street Journal and then on his own and now as part of The Verge.

00:18:43   So it's really an incredible run.

00:18:46   Yeah, and I think we should all learn a lot from how Mossberg was able to understand a

00:18:53   new wave coming, and he wrote that wave and in the process he created something new completely.

00:19:01   And I think just from a business perspective it's just so fascinating to go back and observe

00:19:08   and learn, and I truly hope we'll get something from Mossberg in the future, whether it's

00:19:13   a book or a new indie website, I just hope the guy doesn't stop writing, you know?

00:19:20   Because he's been around a long time and he knows what he's doing and I think we should,

00:19:23   we cannot learn from someone with that kind of expertise and knowledge.

00:19:27   So last week we also saw the launch of Clips, Apples, I don't know how you would describe

00:19:33   this?

00:19:34   Uh, social video making app, maybe?

00:19:37   Perfect.

00:19:38   I don't know.

00:19:39   It's not social per se, but it's kinda.

00:19:42   It's a tool though, it's like we discussed, it's not a social network itself, I think

00:19:46   Apple has learned its lesson there, but it is a tool for basically for you to create

00:19:51   something to push out to a social network.

00:19:54   When did it launch, Thursday last week?

00:19:56   Friday?

00:19:57   Yeah, I think it was Thursday.

00:19:59   So we had some time with it, and there's a lot of interesting stuff in this app.

00:20:03   I will say like high level, I think it's pretty well laid out.

00:20:07   were a couple places that the UI could use some some polishing or some

00:20:14   clarification like when I first used it I accidentally downloaded my raw clip

00:20:19   instead of saving the edited version because like some of that was a little

00:20:23   confusing but you know once you figure it out you figure it out and it looks

00:20:27   nice it has one thing I really wasn't expecting is that all the sound effects

00:20:32   or like the music you put under them or download on demand so yeah so I think

00:20:36   I think it's the same with the with the memories feature in iOS 10.

00:20:40   Yeah.

00:20:41   You can download that kind of pre-made music on demand.

00:20:44   Right, but it's not bundled in the app, which is nice, it keeps it small.

00:20:49   Yeah.

00:20:49   But you just gotta kind of wait for that to come in.

00:20:51   But there's some weirdness too, like it is a universal app.

00:20:55   I really thought it was iPhone only.

00:20:57   I didn't even try it on my iPad.

00:20:59   Apparently it's really bad on the iPad, right?

00:21:01   Like, have you tried it on the 12.9?

00:21:03   Yes, I did.

00:21:04   then it's got a bunch of low res assets, and I'm pretty sure the onboarding experience

00:21:10   was in portrait mode only. There's a bunch of weird things that made me wonder, as I

00:21:15   was trying the app, why is this even on the iPad? And I guess the answer is because Apple

00:21:19   sees these people taking videos with the iPad. And to be fair, for example, I turned on the

00:21:26   news yesterday, and there was a journalist, a reporter, I think somewhere in Rome, doing

00:21:33   a news piece and there was someone in the background with a camera crew and instead

00:21:39   of a camera they had an iPad mounted on a sort of tripod just shooting video.

00:21:45   And so yeah, there are people using the iPad for this stuff and I guess Apple hopes that

00:21:50   while you're taking video with your iPad now you can make it lit as the people say these

00:21:56   days and share it on Instagram and whatever.

00:22:01   we're coming to you, where your video happens, we have the Clips app to help you. I guess

00:22:07   that's the reasoning. But the app is so badly done on the iPad, it's kind of like an afterthought,

00:22:14   really. Yeah, I mean, I get that, but if it's gonna be half-baked, why not just have it

00:22:21   iPhone only at first? That would've been fine, right? I don't think anyone would've really

00:22:24   bad knife, it was iPhone only, but who knows. There is some weirdness though, right, that

00:22:30   it uses your camera, microphone, and can save photos without asking permission?

00:22:35   It doesn't bring up the standard permission dialog to access the camera, the microphone,

00:22:41   or save photos into your library. And the idea here, I guess, is, well, it's an Apple

00:22:47   app, they can do whatever they want, but I think it's bad form, especially when it's

00:22:51   an app you download from the app store, I think it's necessary to implement the same

00:22:55   steps that other apps have to use.

00:22:58   And also, I mean this is kind of obvious and maybe not as bad as not asking for permission,

00:23:03   but of course there's a bunch of private APIs being used.

00:23:08   One example is being able to display the recently used emoji outside of the keyboard context.

00:23:14   So in the Clips app there's a pop-up screen where you get a grid of emoji you've used

00:23:21   recently on your iOS device, and developers cannot access the kind of information about

00:23:26   the emoji keyboard.

00:23:28   Of course Clips can because it's an Apple app.

00:23:30   But really I just hope that Apple can implement the permissions dialogue, especially in this

00:23:36   day and age.

00:23:38   It doesn't look right to me with an app that you download from the App Store and then you

00:23:41   can do whatever you want.

00:23:43   But talking about the app itself, I think some parts of it are really nice.

00:23:49   I like the visual effects, I think they're nicely done.

00:23:54   I think the dictation idea to be able to create closed captioning as you record a video is

00:24:00   kind of cool, it's a very nice implementation.

00:24:04   But I don't know how much I'm going to use this.

00:24:06   It just seems to me like it seems better to use the native features of social networks.

00:24:13   and I'm especially referring to the Stories feature on Instagram, which a lot of my friends

00:24:18   are using these days.

00:24:20   And it just seems so much more natural to, you know, to shoot a video in there, to add

00:24:26   some text and to add some colors and emoji directly from Instagram, instead of having

00:24:31   to go through the extra step of "well, I want to use Apple's Clips app, and then I need

00:24:35   to add some effects and text, then I need to save it, and then I need to import it back

00:24:40   into Instagram or whatever".

00:24:42   So I mean, it looks kind of cool, and it's nice, but it smells to me like the annual

00:24:49   Apple experiment that they handled to an intern, and that unlike music memos or cards or whatever

00:24:58   Apple did before with these experiments, this time it gained so much more exposure because

00:25:03   it kind of wanted to fit into the modern social narrative of everybody's doing this video,

00:25:12   apps with effects these days, but it does seem to me like it's another Apple

00:25:16   experiment. And I don't want to say that it's going nowhere, but it doesn't have...

00:25:21   I don't think it will have the impact that some people think it will, you know?

00:25:26   I don't see a lot of clips videos in my Instagram feeds or in my Facebook or not

00:25:31   even my iMessage really. I think it's kind of cool. I think it made... it would

00:25:37   have made more sense as an iMovie extension or something. I don't think

00:25:41   take off as a default way for people to share video socially.

00:25:46   Yeah, I totally agree that I think people, and iOS has trained us to be this way, right?

00:25:52   That if you want to do something with an app, you go to the app first, right?

00:25:57   That's the whole model.

00:25:58   And I created some stuff in there really just on launch day, really just to send to friends

00:26:04   over iMessage.

00:26:06   And I was kind of expecting, maybe just because I follow a bunch of Apple people, I kind of

00:26:10   was expecting to see a lot of this stuff

00:26:14   show up on my Instagram feed or on Twitter,

00:26:18   and it just hasn't.

00:26:19   I think it's because people are going to those services,

00:26:24   to those apps to create content for those apps.

00:26:28   Like Instagram, you can bring in photos

00:26:30   you've taken over the last 24 hours.

00:26:32   I don't even know how many people know about that,

00:26:34   and it crops them on its own.

00:26:37   Like you can't control it or anything,

00:26:38   and Clips is making square videos,

00:26:42   which is nice for Instagram, but not Stories.

00:26:45   These different services just want different things.

00:26:47   I don't think Clips can be molded in a way to fit

00:26:50   every receiving end of it.

00:26:51   So I agree with you, it's fun.

00:26:55   The closed captioning to me is my favorite part.

00:26:58   You can edit, you can go in and tap and edit it

00:27:00   if it gets it wrong.

00:27:01   But it's fun, but I've stuck it in a folder

00:27:05   and I'm sure I'll play with it some on occasion,

00:27:07   but it's not gonna change the world.

00:27:10   And I think that's okay.

00:27:11   Like I think these, these like in Google parlance,

00:27:15   like 10% time projects.

00:27:17   - Yes.

00:27:18   - Like they're fun, right?

00:27:19   Like Music Memos, if you use it,

00:27:20   like and it's part of your workflow, that's great.

00:27:23   And I'm sure there's people who use it or are glad it exists.

00:27:26   But I don't think Clips has to change the world, right?

00:27:29   There's a lot of, a lot of hot takes when it was announced

00:27:34   that this is Apple's first like move into AR.

00:27:36   Like that very well may be true, and I think it probably is,

00:27:39   but it doesn't mean that this has to like go out

00:27:42   and completely change the way everyone interacts

00:27:45   with their social networks for it to be a success.

00:27:47   - Yeah, I guess we don't have to always look

00:27:50   for a deeper meaning, you know?

00:27:52   Sometimes things are just what they are.

00:27:54   It's a new app and it does a bunch of nice things,

00:27:58   and it might as well be a way for Apple

00:28:00   to collect data or whatever,

00:28:02   or maybe it's just an experiment.

00:28:04   Maybe they just assembled a team of 10 people

00:28:06   and said, "Well, we want a way to make it easier

00:28:08   "for people to make videos."

00:28:10   So take a bunch of tech from iMovie,

00:28:13   take a bunch of tech from the camera app,

00:28:16   and ship something.

00:28:17   And maybe we don't have to look for a profound subtext.

00:28:21   Maybe it's just what it is.

00:28:22   It's nice, it'll get a few updates, and then who knows?

00:28:26   - Yeah, I think that's all you can ask of it.

00:28:28   And I haven't played with iMovie on iOS,

00:28:31   I don't know in how long.

00:28:33   I don't have it installed anywhere.

00:28:35   And so I am curious how it compares to iMovie.

00:28:38   My guess is that it's much more streamlined.

00:28:41   And I think Clips is really designed--

00:28:42   you pull your phone out, you shoot something,

00:28:44   you spend a couple minutes putting it together,

00:28:46   and then you share it.

00:28:47   And iMovie feels like there's more work involved.

00:28:50   I don't know, like I said, if that's true or not.

00:28:52   But my impression is that videos was sort of designed--

00:28:55   you have this very narrow path you go down.

00:28:57   You shoot, you add some effects, and you share.

00:29:00   And iMovie is more kind of free form.

00:29:02   You kind of do what you want, and then you get video out

00:29:04   end. I do think there is room for Apple to do more stuff like this though. These

00:29:09   little like 10% you know Apple experiments of seeing a need in the

00:29:16   market that no one's really addressing and and doing something about it and

00:29:20   something like this or like music memos like they're such Apple the apps right

00:29:26   like these are the apps Apple should be making that make content creation

00:29:30   easy that's that's the bread and butter of the iLife suite on the Mac you know

00:29:33   10, 12 years ago.

00:29:35   They tried it with iLife early on in the iPad cycle,

00:29:41   and I think what they discovered is people

00:29:43   don't wanna sit down in iMovie or GarageBand

00:29:46   on their iOS devices like they used to do on their Mac.

00:29:49   iOS apps are better when they're more narrow,

00:29:52   and if you approach it that way,

00:29:54   there's lots of things Apple could do,

00:29:56   and I think they should be doing it.

00:29:57   If anything, just to set an example of

00:30:02   what can be done, right, like the closed captioning thing,

00:30:07   you know, that's something that Apple could do

00:30:08   because they have access to all of that,

00:30:10   and like use that to your advantage to make something fun.

00:30:13   And again, it doesn't have to be a chart-topping app,

00:30:16   it doesn't have to have 200 million downloads,

00:30:19   you don't have to include it in iOS 11,

00:30:21   you know, on the springboard by default,

00:30:24   but for people who want it and who find it,

00:30:26   it should be fun to use and it should be easy to use,

00:30:29   And good Apple software is like at that intersection,

00:30:32   to use a term that Myke hates,

00:30:34   of like fun and easy to use.

00:30:36   And I think Clips gets that right.

00:30:39   - Yeah, I agree.

00:30:40   We'll see.

00:30:41   - Yeah, we'll see where it goes.

00:30:42   I'm very curious to see how it lasts long-term.

00:30:47   I don't keep music memos on any of my devices.

00:30:49   It's not a need that I have.

00:30:50   I don't know how often it's been updated

00:30:52   or if it's getting features.

00:30:54   I guess this stuff like this

00:30:55   gets put in maintenance mode pretty quickly.

00:30:59   I would be surprised if we don't see any new effects in the camera app in the future.

00:31:08   They just make more sense there.

00:31:09   Honestly, I wouldn't mind some of that stuff getting pulled out of the camera app.

00:31:13   There's a lot of stuff in there.

00:31:14   There's a lot of stuff in the camera app and put it someplace like Clips.

00:31:19   Yeah, I don't know man.

00:31:21   I think we'll get more, not less.

00:31:25   Probably.

00:31:26   Okay, so our second sponsor this week is Pingdom.

00:31:31   Start monitoring your websites and servers today at pingdom.com/connected.

00:31:35   You'll get a 14 day free trial and when you enter the offer code connected at checkout,

00:31:39   you'll get 20% off your first purchase.

00:31:42   Pingdom is focused on making the web faster and more reliable for anyone who has a website.

00:31:47   They do this by offering powerful and easy to use tools and services.

00:31:51   For example, if you're a Pingdom user, you can monitor the availability and performance

00:31:55   of your server, database, or website,

00:31:58   and it's just a breeze.

00:31:59   Pingdom takes care of this by using

00:32:01   more than 70 global test servers.

00:32:03   These test servers, they emulate visitors to your site,

00:32:06   checking its availability as often as once per minute.

00:32:09   These days, websites are becoming more and more

00:32:11   sophisticated and often include several dependencies,

00:32:14   things like contact forms, e-commerce checkouts,

00:32:17   logins, search functionality, and loads more.

00:32:21   Pingdom makes it possible to monitor the availability

00:32:23   all these key interactions people will have with your site. It's not just about a

00:32:27   simple static site anymore. These things are complicated. Let's be real, stuff

00:32:31   breaks on the internet all the time. Each month Pingdom detects around 13 million

00:32:35   outages. That's more than 400,000 a day. So regardless of whether you have a

00:32:40   small website or you're managing a giant infrastructure, it's super important to

00:32:44   monitor its availability and performance. All Pingdom needs is the URL you wish to

00:32:49   monitor and they take care of the rest. When Pingdom detects an outage you'll be

00:32:54   immediately alerted so you can fix the error before the downtime affects you.

00:32:58   It's just the worst when you find out that your website's down by someone on

00:33:01   Twitter or somebody emailing you. You need Pingdom so you're ahead of the

00:33:04   curve. Check it out today and you'll be the first to know when your website is

00:33:08   down. So go to pingdom.com/connected for a 14-day free trial and use the

00:33:14   offer code connected at checkout to get 20% off your first invoice. Our thanks to

00:33:19   Pingdom for their support of this show and relay FM. So Steven I thought for a

00:33:24   change I want to ask you not about iOS not about the iPad but I want to ask you

00:33:30   why do you love the Mac so much because I I feel like you are like a good parent

00:33:38   you let me and Myke talk about our favorite toys but you rarely share your

00:33:45   for those old computers and why do you actually love Mac OS. So this time I'll let you go

00:33:54   over why is the Mac so important to you, why do you love it so much, and what are the reasons

00:34:01   that you still need a Mac today and how does that relate to switching to iOS and using

00:34:08   the iPad?

00:34:09   - I appreciate the opportunity to indulge in this.

00:34:12   (laughing)

00:34:14   It's very kind of you, my son.

00:34:16   So my origin story I've told before,

00:34:18   I wrote it up back in 2011.

00:34:20   As a side note to all of this,

00:34:22   I shared this with you over iMessage the other night.

00:34:24   When I was writing the cheese grater thing,

00:34:27   most of the sources I used I had linked to

00:34:29   or written about before,

00:34:31   because my site is almost nine years old.

00:34:32   And like, it's getting to a point where

00:34:34   if I need something in the past,

00:34:36   I've written about it already.

00:34:37   It's very strange.

00:34:38   - I get the feeling too, yeah, I understand.

00:34:40   - Yeah, so I wrote a piece back in 2011.

00:34:43   It'll be in the show notes, it's called Sophomore.

00:34:45   And basically it was about my introduction to the Mac.

00:34:49   And I've shared this before,

00:34:49   if so, if you've heard it, forgive me.

00:34:51   But I was in high school, I joined the newspaper program.

00:34:56   It was a big deal at my high school.

00:34:58   And I won tons of awards for design and student journalism.

00:35:03   As a freshman, I applied to work on the staff.

00:35:06   the advisor let me join as a sophomore which was very unusual. My first job

00:35:11   was within the advertising department. I designed ads and so I was using like

00:35:16   Photoshop and Core Express and Mac OS 9 on this old Power Mac G3 all-in-one. It's

00:35:22   called the Molar Mac. I actually just bought one. I've looked for one for years.

00:35:25   I will put a link in the show notes to my unboxing video. It is the ugliest

00:35:28   computer Apple has ever made by far but it means a lot to me because it was the

00:35:34   It was the first Mac that I ever really used and you know I had come across them before in school labs and that sort of thing

00:35:42   but it really

00:35:44   It was the first Mac that I made something on and that may sound silly

00:35:49   but

00:35:51   the I

00:35:53   Think I think the Mac and iOS and like computers are really just

00:35:57   They're just tools right they are just ways

00:36:00   to

00:36:02   to make things. They're just fancy screwdrivers. I really believe that. At the end of the day, a computer is just a tool to do

00:36:08   or to make or to create and

00:36:11   that really resonated with me, you know, I guess however old you are. I just saw from when I was like 15 or 16 years old and

00:36:18   that lesson really sunk in that this with this computer I can make a thought

00:36:24   real, right? That a design in my head or a photo that I had taken or something

00:36:31   I was writing, I could put out into the world. Because it was a newspaper, I could publish

00:36:35   it and hundreds of people could read it. And my high school had about 2,000 people in it,

00:36:38   so you know, hundreds of people were reading it. Shockingly small number compared to our

00:36:43   audience today, but it's a different story. But I got hooked. I got hooked to publishing,

00:36:47   I got hooked to sharing my thoughts with the world through things like design and writing

00:36:52   and photography. All the same things I do today. Really, I owe almost everything in

00:36:57   my career to that high school newspaper room.

00:37:00   And the skills I learned there on that computer are the skills that I use today.

00:37:04   Yes, I'm not using QuarkXPress anymore, but I'm not using Photoshop 6 anymore, I'm not

00:37:08   using Mac OS 9 anymore.

00:37:10   But those--

00:37:11   Are you sure?

00:37:12   Well, some days I use Mac OS 9.

00:37:14   But those fundamentals I learned there have shaped my career in the 16 years since.

00:37:21   I just fell in love with the Mac, and I fell in love with its personality, that the Mac

00:37:24   has a feeling about it that I just don't, that doesn't resonate the same way from

00:37:28   an iOS device. You know, yes, that has faded over time, you know, OS X has less

00:37:35   personality than it once did and far less personality than the classic Mac OS,

00:37:39   but there's something about these machines that just have a spark to them

00:37:43   that I really resonate with and I'm not alone in that and I think I probably

00:37:47   sound like somebody older than me, you know, I probably sound like Guy English

00:37:50   who's, you know, a little bit older than me but got into like, you know, those guys

00:37:54   I was like, kinda like the Apple II, right?

00:37:57   And John Suckus got into the original Mac.

00:37:59   For me, it was a molar Mac,

00:38:00   which is really unfortunate compared to the Apple II

00:38:02   and the original Mac.

00:38:04   But kinda the same thing, right?

00:38:05   That I could just, I just connected with it somehow.

00:38:08   I've used one ever since,

00:38:09   and I got a titanium power book at a high school job,

00:38:13   and they basically let me carry it as my own machine.

00:38:15   And then I got a blue and white G3 tower,

00:38:17   which I still own the exact computer.

00:38:19   I had it in college, owned the exact computer today.

00:38:22   sitting just on the other side of this room,

00:38:24   and a whole line of PowerBooks and MacBook Pros,

00:38:27   and now this iMac.

00:38:28   And throughout them all,

00:38:30   the Mac has been my consistent platform for work.

00:38:35   Even when I was doing IT for a living,

00:38:37   I had a PC notebook, but I also had a MacBook Pro.

00:38:40   And my HP would just sit on my desk,

00:38:42   and I would take my MacBook Pro and remote into it

00:38:44   when I needed something in Windows.

00:38:45   I was a very unconventional IT guy sometimes.

00:38:50   But it's always been there. It's always been where I sit down to do work and where I sit down to

00:38:56   write things for myself and things I work on my photography and the videos, all this stuff

00:39:02   centers around the Macintosh. And I guess there are a bunch of reasons for that beyond just

00:39:07   the nostalgia of being 15 and meeting this computer for the first time. That is a factor,

00:39:13   and if you pay attention to my work at all, that's a huge factor in my work. And I'm just

00:39:17   I'm a nostalgic person, and I...

00:39:22   But my love for the Mac is not solely based in that.

00:39:26   That is a factor for sure.

00:39:27   I'm gonna have a dog cow tattoo for crying out loud.

00:39:29   That is a factor.

00:39:31   But today, I'm doing a podcast with you,

00:39:35   then this afternoon I'm gonna do some writing.

00:39:37   And I will choose, do I do it in my iMac or do I do it

00:39:40   in my iPad?

00:39:41   And in that decision making, for tasks that I can do

00:39:45   either place, I will still generally pick the Mac

00:39:49   because of things like familiarity,

00:39:52   you know, that it is familiar,

00:39:53   that it is, I have all these keyboard shortcuts wired

00:39:55   into my nerves and my hands,

00:39:57   and I have things like TextExpander and Hazel

00:40:00   and all these things working all the time

00:40:02   that make the way that I work faster on the Mac

00:40:07   than it is on iOS.

00:40:08   For me, it is not, for a lot of my work,

00:40:10   I can do it both places, right?

00:40:11   And at the end of the day, the work, you know,

00:40:14   it would be an article.

00:40:16   These show notes this week, my part of them,

00:40:19   like this section that I'm going through,

00:40:20   I wrote out on my iPad the other morning

00:40:23   with my smart keyboard.

00:40:24   I can do that work, and the consistency is there,

00:40:27   but generally it's faster on the Mac.

00:40:30   And some of that has to do with limitations in iOS,

00:40:34   so things like the speed of windowing,

00:40:37   again, keyboard shortcuts.

00:40:39   When I'm writing, so if you think about a typical article

00:40:41   write for their 5.5 pixels or Mac stories even now about Apple history.

00:40:48   Like take a model of a computer or take an idea, take a concept and flesh it

00:40:52   out. When I'm writing that sort of piece I've got a hundred Chrome tabs open. I've

00:40:58   got a bunch of different apps open. I've got some YouTube video playing in the

00:41:02   background. I have Mac tracker. I have you know my text editor and again I can do

00:41:06   100% of that on the iPad but the Mac makes it easier to see all that stuff at

00:41:11   once and flip around more quickly and I like you Federico I strongly believe

00:41:17   that multitasking is gonna get phenomenally better on the iPad

00:41:20   hopefully this year and I hope that Apple has some way at least on the 12.9

00:41:26   inch iPad to see more at once because you know in writing I'll have two

00:41:30   windows up and kind of looking at referencing one or work on the other and

00:41:33   I can do that on the iPad but I always feel like I'm managing split-screen apps

00:41:37   apps like all the time and and that just gets for me again just the way that I

00:41:43   work you know I should have prefaced this at the top so I'm gonna say it now

00:41:47   this like my opinion and your opinion even though we disagree on some of this

00:41:52   stuff like neither of us feel like this is not a holy war like right like I am

00:41:57   not I fully understand that the Mac plays second fiddle to iOS and you know

00:42:03   what that's fine like Apple is the the iPhone company the iPad and the Mac you

00:42:09   know we're kind of on equal footing give or take and at least in revenue and

00:42:15   that's fine like I am NOT one to cling to the past of saying you know Apple

00:42:21   should be the Mac company and get rid of iOS I'm not saying that nor am I saying

00:42:24   that I as a Mac user feel threatened that the iPad is going to take over I

00:42:30   don't feel threatened by that for a couple of reasons one Apple said it's

00:42:33   that's not the case, that they're going to evolve the iPad in parallel with the Mac.

00:42:37   You know what, if they do that, then I can step over to the iPad, and it'll be fine,

00:42:40   like you know, if they do that at some point.

00:42:43   But today at least, I think for the foreseeable future, the Mac is still an important part

00:42:46   of Apple's strategy, and there are parts of my job that I can only do on a Mac.

00:42:51   And as long as that's the case, the Mac will exist.

00:42:54   And I'm not one to freak out about that.

00:42:57   Let me ask you.

00:42:58   Sure.

00:42:59   from iOS that you wish was available on the Mac?

00:43:03   Yeah, there's tons of stuff. I think the biggest thing, and it's sort of like, it's more of a concept than an actual feature,

00:43:09   I think iOS has done a great job of hiding the complexities under the hood.

00:43:14   So let's just take a simple example of uninstalling an application, right? So you tried

00:43:19   clips, you don't like it, you hold down the icon and you tap the X and it's

00:43:24   it's gone and all of it's gone.

00:43:26   And on the Mac, because Mac OS slash Mac OS 10

00:43:29   is really like, it's this weird,

00:43:31   you should go read my book about this,

00:43:33   a weird marriage of classic Mac OS and Next Step.

00:43:37   So when I delete an application from my applications folder,

00:43:40   it leaves tons of junk scattered across my disk, right?

00:43:43   Resource files and themes and font.

00:43:46   There's a lot Apple could do to make the behind the scenes

00:43:51   stuff for the Mac OS cleaner, where you don't,

00:43:53   that complexity could still be there,

00:43:55   but do a better job of managing it for me.

00:43:56   And like, I like that I can dig into my preferences folder

00:43:58   and like, just the other day I had a problem in Airmail

00:44:02   and I went in and like got rid of its entire preferences

00:44:04   folder and let it resync for my cloud.

00:44:06   There's not really a way to do that on iOS, right?

00:44:09   So there's pros and cons to both,

00:44:11   but I think as a general principle,

00:44:14   Apple could do more on the Mac

00:44:16   to hide that sort of stuff from people

00:44:19   who don't wanna see it, right?

00:44:20   - Yeah, for everyday usage,

00:44:22   it's not like you're always needing to go look into the preferences folder or the cache

00:44:27   or the library settings.

00:44:30   Right, so a good example of this, I don't know what release it was, let's say, I don't

00:44:35   know, let's say Lion, because Lion changed a bunch of stuff, I don't know if that's true

00:44:38   or not, they hid the user library folder.

00:44:40   Yeah, I remember.

00:44:41   And you had to do it with the keyboard shortcut or you could go into the Go box and get it

00:44:47   there.

00:44:48   Yes.

00:44:49   And you know what?

00:44:50   I was fine with that decision.

00:44:51   perturbing at first but when you realize that most people can only do harm in

00:44:55   there yeah and it's still there like I guess I'll get to it you know I can hit

00:44:58   you know command shift G to go to folder and you know start typing and it'll get

00:45:04   me there I think things like that that make the Mac less scary for people

00:45:09   because you know I think a lot of people are afraid of the Mac because they're

00:45:13   gonna break something and these are the same people that like install and it's

00:45:17   apps on their iPad all day. Like I think there's that sort of middle ground. Now

00:45:21   Apple has also gone that wrong over the years. I think you look at something like

00:45:25   app sandboxing where they're trying to force a model on the Mac that doesn't

00:45:30   really work on the Mac and there's room for sandboxing. I think they needed to

00:45:34   approach it differently. I think they are slowly realizing that what they did

00:45:38   there was that their outcome was good like what they wanted to do was good but

00:45:45   they went about it in the wrong way. And so I think there's give and take there, but I

00:45:49   think overall the Mac could be less scary for some users.

00:45:53   Yeah, I get that. And especially when it comes to balancing the same computer or even the

00:45:58   same app for two kinds of users. There's the novice and there's the expert. And I feel

00:46:04   like the optimal rule would be, by default, hide the complexity, but don't lock it down

00:46:10   for the expert user. Just make it accessible via a setting or a hidden preference, because

00:46:17   if you're an expert user, you're going to know how to handle that kind of tweaking and

00:46:21   customization. But if you're a novice, you don't want to be intimidated by the program

00:46:26   or by the computer. So I agree with you. I think by default, you should hide the complexity,

00:46:32   but you shouldn't lock it down, which is exactly what Apple tried to do with sandboxing and

00:46:36   the Mac App Store. They try to lock down the advanced features of apps for expert users,

00:46:42   whereas I think it's okay to have more security and a safer sandboxing system for everyone,

00:46:48   but don't remove the advanced functionality for power users. And that's a very fine line

00:46:54   to walk, and Apple has sort of taken a bunch of missteps in the past few years, and maybe

00:46:59   they're trying to get it right in the more recent years. We'll see.

00:47:03   I think too, and talking about things that one platform can learn from the other, I think

00:47:08   one reason Mac OS has such a broad user base is that the hardware is broad.

00:47:15   If you want something really thin and light, you can get a MacBook.

00:47:18   And it's basically an iPad running Mac OS.

00:47:21   It's very small, it's very light, and it's the ultimate portable machine.

00:47:27   But if you're someone like me, where I'm doing audio and video editing and processing, I'm

00:47:33   writing, I'm doing all these power user type tasks, the 27-inch iMac runs the same OS,

00:47:39   but gives me much more capability in what I can do with it, and gives me more flexibility

00:47:46   in what I can get done.

00:47:48   And I think there's room for iOS, especially the iPad, to scale.

00:47:53   it's great that we have the 9.7 and the 12.9,

00:47:57   but what does an even bigger iPad look like?

00:47:59   What does it look like to have an iOS device

00:48:01   that is on your desk, a desktop iOS device?

00:48:04   We have that with the iMac, right?

00:48:06   Unless you're that guy on Reddit

00:48:07   that pops up every couple years,

00:48:09   taking your iMac to a coffee shop.

00:48:11   You have a MacBook or a MacBook Pro.

00:48:13   And even me, I have an iMac and a MacBook Pro,

00:48:17   because I want a desktop, I want all my drives,

00:48:19   I want all my stuff on my desk,

00:48:22   I want to be here when I walk in the door to my studio.

00:48:24   But I have a MacBook Pro because I work on the road

00:48:27   and I need to travel and I need to do these other things.

00:48:30   And I can have my same tools, my same data,

00:48:33   my same utility belt with me on two different machines

00:48:38   with very different form factors.

00:48:40   And I think iOS, it's not the lowest hanging fruit

00:48:45   on the iOS tree, like they should fix

00:48:47   some other stuff first.

00:48:49   But at some point, at some point,

00:48:51   I think they've got to look at

00:48:53   what does it mean to have iOS on a desktop?

00:48:56   What does it mean to have an iPad you don't take with you?

00:49:00   And that is really fascinating.

00:49:02   - You know, I actually wouldn't mind an iPad

00:49:05   the size of my desk, where it's like my desk is the iPad.

00:49:10   And I can, you know, and it's this sort of strange mix

00:49:13   of macOS and iOS, I can use multi-touch

00:49:16   and there's the keyboard that follows me on screen,

00:49:19   and I can take a look at multiple apps,

00:49:21   I can pinch and swipe, I can scroll,

00:49:23   I can make my photos bigger, I can watch 4K,

00:49:26   maybe even 8K video on my desk,

00:49:30   but it also retains the simplicity

00:49:32   and the secure model of iOS.

00:49:34   It just, you're not creating new complexity,

00:49:37   you're trying to get a,

00:49:38   you're trying to build a new system

00:49:40   to sort of fix the complexity of a legacy model

00:49:45   in new ways.

00:49:46   And I think that's the challenge going forward.

00:49:48   Like five, 10, 15 years from now,

00:49:51   do you really think that we're always gonna be stuck

00:49:54   with laptops and big screens that sit vertically

00:49:58   and you have a keyboard?

00:49:59   Or do you think there's sort of,

00:50:00   maybe there will be some convergence?

00:50:02   In the short term, it is okay to say,

00:50:06   well, I don't wanna have a MacBook with touch.

00:50:09   But until a couple of years ago, you would have said,

00:50:11   well, I don't wanna have an iPad with Split View

00:50:13   or with external keyboards.

00:50:15   And that was me to an extent, that was actually me.

00:50:18   So I think over time, you know,

00:50:20   everything becomes more malleable, maybe.

00:50:23   Everything becomes more flexible.

00:50:25   And I don't think it's too crazy to imagine a future

00:50:28   where you get home and there's a giant iPad on your table

00:50:32   or on your desk and you have these sets of Apple Pencils.

00:50:36   Maybe you have something like a Surface Dial,

00:50:38   maybe you don't, maybe there's a new accessory,

00:50:40   or maybe you even put in your phone,

00:50:42   your iPhone on top of the giant iPad

00:50:44   and it does a bunch of continuity stuff

00:50:47   because you're putting your phone on top of it.

00:50:49   I don't know, man, the future is crazy.

00:50:50   You never know what's gonna happen.

00:50:52   But I don't think, in the past few years,

00:50:54   I've tried not to keep a fixed perspective

00:50:57   because I think anything is possible.

00:50:59   And I think one of the traps that people get caught into

00:51:04   when it comes to Apple coverage is to say,

00:51:06   well, Apple is never gonna do this and that.

00:51:08   And I think what makes Apple Apple

00:51:11   is doing stuff that drives people crazy

00:51:15   and surprising people with, in theory, crazy decisions.

00:51:20   So, you know, maybe down the road,

00:51:23   I do believe a giant iPad and, you know,

00:51:27   MacBooks that look different or iMacs for pros,

00:51:30   I think everything is possible.

00:51:32   - I think so too.

00:51:34   And I think the last thing for me

00:51:38   that sort of still makes the Mac my home base

00:51:41   is that there are, on the Mac,

00:51:42   there were a bunch of different paths to get something done.

00:51:45   And you have a lot of flexibility

00:51:48   in the workflows that you build.

00:51:51   And so if you, I mean, so if you take something

00:51:54   like editing a podcast, right,

00:51:56   what I do, I do it several times a week,

00:51:59   I have a bunch of different ways I could go about that.

00:52:01   I have a bunch of ways I can record it,

00:52:03   have a bunch of different ways I can save

00:52:04   and export that file, have a bunch of different apps

00:52:07   I can use for pre-flight editing and editing

00:52:09   and sound cancellation and I can use a tool

00:52:13   until I outgrow it, something like GarageBand,

00:52:16   then I can graduate to Logic.

00:52:19   Or if I am already using one Adobe program,

00:52:23   I can download its sibling program and do it in there

00:52:26   and they're similar.

00:52:27   And I can do post-processing different ways.

00:52:30   I can put chapters in different ways.

00:52:32   I can upload it via FTP or via the web.

00:52:35   And the iOS, again, it's getting there,

00:52:38   but I still often feel restricted

00:52:41   into a narrow path on iOS.

00:52:45   Like we talked about earlier with Clips,

00:52:47   narrow path apps I think are the way to go on iOS,

00:52:50   at least to a degree,

00:52:51   but when it comes down to getting actual work,

00:52:54   like again, the type of work that I do,

00:52:57   only can only speak for me,

00:52:59   the flexibility that Matt gives me

00:53:01   is something that I still cherish,

00:53:03   that I can do things different ways,

00:53:06   that have a finder and I can manipulate files and folders

00:53:09   with a bunch of different utilities there.

00:53:10   I can do stuff in the command line.

00:53:12   I can go to the GUI.

00:53:13   I can have something running in my menu bar

00:53:15   that's always tickling files on my disk

00:53:17   as they download from Dropbox.

00:53:18   All this different types of stuff means

00:53:21   that I can build an environment around myself

00:53:25   that works for me when I'm not active.

00:53:28   So this stuff, I have all these different ways to do things

00:53:30   and a bunch of those ways can work in the background.

00:53:33   And again, iOS is getting there with things like web services

00:53:35   and pulling things into workflow

00:53:37   or pulling things into Dropbox in the background,

00:53:40   but the Mac is still so multi-processed by default

00:53:45   that that stuff can be going on just all the time.

00:53:49   And it means that when I go to reach for something,

00:53:52   I know that it's there because I trust this process

00:53:54   in the background has done it for me.

00:53:56   And it, for me, at least the way that I work,

00:54:01   I tend to jump around a bunch.

00:54:02   Again, if I'm writing, I have all this stuff going on,

00:54:05   It means that I'm not switching to an app

00:54:08   or switching modes and waiting for a process to finish

00:54:11   or waiting for an app to wake up to do something

00:54:13   to download something in the background.

00:54:15   That sort of like always on approach of the Mac

00:54:20   means that the computer can do more work for me

00:54:23   when I'm not around.

00:54:24   So like my iMac out here in my studio,

00:54:26   I leave on 24/7.

00:54:29   And I set the screen to go to sleep,

00:54:32   but the CPU, the drive, everything is always on

00:54:35   because it can sync changes from Dropbox

00:54:38   so they end up in Time Machine.

00:54:39   I've got iCloud Photo Library going

00:54:40   so we can pull down photos.

00:54:42   I have things like Backblaze and Google Photos uploaded.

00:54:46   This stuff can just be working for me all the time.

00:54:49   And maybe that's part of this idea

00:54:51   of a stay-at-home iOS device that can do more of this stuff,

00:54:55   but right now, iOS still feels very much on demand

00:54:58   that I want to do this, I'm going to do this,

00:55:02   and the device will respond to me.

00:55:04   And I like that the Mac is sort of out ahead of me

00:55:08   on some of these things and preparing things for me

00:55:12   so when I sit down for something or when I go,

00:55:17   oh, do I have that photo?

00:55:19   Well, yes, I do because it's already done its thing

00:55:22   in the background.

00:55:23   - Yeah, we should, I have really nothing more to add, so.

00:55:28   Well, you're gonna switch to the Mac, right? I've talked you into it.

00:55:31   I do understand your point, and I do see your perspective.

00:55:37   And for the same, like, all the reasons that you mentioned, I could, I can make the same argument for the iPad.

00:55:46   So I think, you know, like you said at the very beginning of this section, this is not a holy war, and I think that's the beautiful thing about this.

00:55:55   you can use the Mac, I can use my iPad, and we can both be equally productive, but I think in different ways.

00:56:01   And to be able to say this, we have reached the point in the Apple ecosystem where

00:56:08   different people can be productive in different ways using macOS and iOS.

00:56:14   It sort of speaks to iOS evolution over the past seven years, and also the stability of macOS,

00:56:20   despite the problems that both platforms had, especially since the restructuring of iOS

00:56:28   7 and some of the missteps on the Mac.

00:56:32   I think we are at the point where the Mac could use some of the simplicity of iOS, maybe,

00:56:41   some of the removal of complexities all around the system, where iOS could use some of the

00:56:50   Mac's general approach to multiple operations at the same time, whether it's about multiple

00:56:55   apps or multiple files. In general, iOS is a one-way OS in many ways. The way that it

00:57:03   forces you to operate with one document at a time. And even SplitView, yes, you can use

00:57:09   two apps at the same time, but man, the SplitView UI is terribly broken. And so iOS, Apple showed

00:57:18   some signs of "we want to make this a two-way communication with the user and with apps".

00:57:24   Still a one-way street for the most part. And that's what I want to see from iOS 11

00:57:29   this year. More flexibility, like the Mac, when it comes to doing multiple things at

00:57:34   once on the computer, because it turns out people can do multiple things at once, and

00:57:38   computers can, so why cannot the OS expose those for me? So the arguments that you make,

00:57:46   I think they're totally fair, from your perspective, and the same arguments and some different

00:57:52   ones also make sense for iOS and the iPad.

00:57:56   And my general approach here is we should all be happy with what we have and hope for

00:58:02   something better.

00:58:03   It just seems so stupid to settle this by saying "well, the Mac is better" or "the iPad

00:58:08   is better".

00:58:09   Yes, we do make fun of each other, but that's always in good faith.

00:58:12   I don't really believe there is a better solution that, you know, you cannot objectively declare

00:58:18   the best computer in Apple's lineup.

00:58:21   Because if you really want to go down that route, by all measures, that would be the

00:58:24   iPhone.

00:58:25   And we talked about this before.

00:58:27   So what makes this a great discussion for me is we each have a preferred option.

00:58:35   There is no single winner.

00:58:37   And what we can hope is for a bunch of improvements across the entire family.

00:58:42   iPhone, iPad, and Mac, but still we won't have a single definition of, "Well, this

00:58:47   is by, you know, we have a winner, this is the best computer that Apple makes."

00:58:52   And that's never going to be true for anyone.

00:58:54   So yeah, this is great.

00:58:56   This is great.

00:58:57   Great discussion.

00:58:58   Yeah.

00:58:59   So if you want to hear us fight, we're going to do that after this sponsor break.

00:59:03   We have something fun for the third act of the show.

00:59:06   But this episode of Connected is also brought to you by Eero.

00:59:09   These days, everything in our homes requires an internet connection.

00:59:13   Speakers, thermostats, light bulbs, front door locks, security cameras, ladies in a

00:59:17   tube and everything in between.

00:59:20   And we increasingly look to streaming services like Netflix, Hulu, Spotify as our home entertainment.

00:59:27   Wi-Fi is the foundation for all of this.

00:59:29   We're totally dependent on it and Wi-Fi is totally broken.

00:59:32   Connections can be inconsistent, slow and unresponsive.

00:59:36   To get the best possible connection today, you need a distributed system that can provide

00:59:41   you with a connection all over the home.

00:59:43   Now previously this has been super expensive to do, super complicated, but not anymore.

00:59:49   With Eero you can install enterprise grade Wi-Fi in your home in just a few minutes.

00:59:54   This is not a simple extender.

00:59:56   Each Eero has two radios inside, keeping your connection fast and everything in sync on

01:00:01   one network name.

01:00:03   download the Eero app on your iOS or Android device and it will walk you through each step

01:00:08   of the setup process.

01:00:09   It's quick, easy, and painless.

01:00:12   The Eero app lets you manage your network from the palm of your hand.

01:00:15   You know how many devices are connected at any given time, as well as the internet speed

01:00:20   you're getting from your service provider.

01:00:22   Now the connection and reliability of Eero is really unmatched.

01:00:26   Our house is laid out like a big L shape, it's kind of terrible for Wi-Fi, and so we

01:00:30   have three.

01:00:31   We have one in the center and one on each end.

01:00:33   And it means that I can take an iPad and walk from one end of the house to the other or

01:00:36   across the yard and stay connected even though I know I'm probably moving between access

01:00:41   points.

01:00:42   Before Eero that would have been a real pain.

01:00:44   You would drop and pick up the other one and have to change network names and Eero makes

01:00:48   that super reliable and super fast.

01:00:50   The average home in the US is easily covered by between 2 and 3 Eero's.

01:00:55   So a 3 pack is a good starting point.

01:00:57   But if you live in a larger space and need more you can have up to 10 in total.

01:01:01   And because of Eero's 30-day money-back guarantee, you can always return one of your Eero's if

01:01:06   you end up not needing it.

01:01:07   Eero is the original whole home Wi-Fi system, and to celebrate its first birthday, the price

01:01:12   has been permanently lowered.

01:01:15   You can now get an Eero 3-pack for $3.99, which is $100 off, or a 2-pack for $2.99,

01:01:21   which is $50 off.

01:01:22   And you can get this Eero at the lower price right now on Eero.com, Best Buy, or Amazon.

01:01:30   Thank you so much to Arrow for supporting this show

01:01:32   and all of Relay FM.

01:01:34   So we thought it would be fun to quiz each other

01:01:39   about our Perf

01:01:39   about our Perf

01:02:06   come from different places so I'm very curious to see how we go and so I thought

01:02:11   we I have an idea but we'll see the I guess if we go about this we I think we

01:02:16   alternate so I think you asked me a question I ask you a question and we

01:02:22   I'll keep score I have a no book here we'll keep score okay and and we'll go

01:02:28   from there so why don't you shoot first okay my first question is according to

01:02:34   Apple's Craig Federighi and his story at WWDC. How did Apple's crack product marketing

01:02:42   team land on the OS X Yosemite name?

01:02:45   Oh, they went on a trip, right? And they visited Weed? Was that the joke? Weed, California?

01:02:53   Yes, this is the "Oh man, you're in the mood."

01:02:56   It's good, right?

01:02:57   Yeah, yeah.

01:02:58   And so they wandered around California baked and then finally ended up at Yosemite.

01:03:02   Yes, that is the exact story. They went on a trip with the VW minibus and they reached

01:03:07   the OS X weed before heading down to discover Yosemite. Yes.

01:03:13   That's pretty good. Yeah, he's great on stage.

01:03:19   Yeah.

01:03:20   Alright, my first question for you, Federico.

01:03:22   Oh, God.

01:03:24   Between the iPhone and the iPad, which device got LTE first and which model of each line

01:03:30   was the first, so kind of a two-part question.

01:03:32   - Between the, so between the iPhone and the iPad,

01:03:36   - Yes.

01:03:36   - Which got LTE first?

01:03:39   All right, so LTE,

01:03:43   we're definitely talking after the iPhone 4,

01:03:47   and I think after the iPhone 4S,

01:03:49   so we're, we are in,

01:03:52   I want to say the iPad 4 got LTE first.

01:03:59   iPad 3, I'll give you a half point for that.

01:04:01   I think you can redeem it, I think you can get a full point if you know which iPhone

01:04:07   was first.

01:04:09   It was the iPhone 5s.

01:04:13   So close.

01:04:14   Ah man, I knew I was getting that wrong.

01:04:17   It is.

01:04:18   See, now I'm doubting, right?

01:04:19   So now I'm hoping MacTrack or DoubleCheck.

01:04:20   But it was the iPhone 5.

01:04:22   It was the iPhone 5.

01:04:23   And what about the iPad?

01:04:24   It was the iPhone 5.

01:04:26   And the iPad 3.

01:04:29   The iPad 3 and the iPhone 5, so I was a year late, basically.

01:04:32   Yeah.

01:04:33   Okay.

01:04:34   Well, no point for me then.

01:04:35   Yeah.

01:04:36   Sorry, buddy.

01:04:37   I'm still double-checking.

01:04:38   I'm still stalling.

01:04:39   I'm double-checking.

01:04:40   I know you're going to win this because you have such broad knowledge of all this stuff.

01:04:44   But okay, 1-

01:04:45   It was the iPad 3.

01:04:47   So, alright, so 1-0.

01:04:49   1-0 for you.

01:04:51   Okay.

01:04:52   My second question is name at least two new OS, well new at the time, OS X Mavericks features.

01:05:02   New to OS X Mavericks?

01:05:04   Yes, at least two.

01:05:06   Did Mavericks bring the Maps app to the Mac?

01:05:13   I think it brought, I want to say yes, I'm just checking again my documentation here,

01:05:21   I have a webpage from Apple.

01:05:23   - So I'm still thinking.

01:05:25   We should say neither of us are cheating, obviously.

01:05:26   We're just taking our word that we are honest people.

01:05:28   I'm going to also say that it brought,

01:05:31   is it the one that brought handoff

01:05:34   and continuity to the Mac?

01:05:36   - I don't think so.

01:05:38   - Oh, no.

01:05:38   - I picked Mavericks because it's a very tricky one.

01:05:44   - Forgettable.

01:05:45   - No one remembers Mavericks.

01:05:47   - Well, if I get maps right,

01:05:50   I think it's a half point.

01:05:52   Maps is right.

01:05:55   Maps is definitely advertised on the Apple webpage for MapWigs.

01:05:59   Now I'm looking on the Wikipedia page.

01:06:02   Timer coalescing, notification center, man.

01:06:08   Finder tabs, tags, icon kitchen, yeah.

01:06:13   So it's one and a half for you.

01:06:15   Okay.

01:06:16   Alright.

01:06:17   That is a forgettable release.

01:06:21   It was the last one with the old design.

01:06:22   Yeah.

01:06:24   Almost no one really remembers Mavericks.

01:06:26   Poor Mavericks.

01:06:29   All right.

01:06:30   You can go.

01:06:31   So 1 and 1/2 for you.

01:06:33   This one, I'm very curious if you get right.

01:06:37   If you do, I will award you two points for this,

01:06:39   because this is the hardest one that I have.

01:06:41   I'm never going to get it right.

01:06:44   How much did Apple charge iPod Touch users

01:06:47   for software updates before they became free.

01:06:49   Okay, so I do remember this.

01:06:52   And I used to pay for this.

01:06:55   And I'm torn between $9.99 from iTunes

01:07:00   and $19.99, but I'm probably going to say it was $10.

01:07:04   $9.99.

01:07:05   That is correct.

01:07:07   Yep, I used to pay for this in iTunes.

01:07:10   So iPhone OS 2 was $9.95

01:07:13   and iOS 3 was $4.95.

01:07:15   Okay, yeah, I do remember the first one because I think with the second one I was already on the iPhone.

01:07:21   Yeah, that's what I thought my hardest ones, and I said I'd give you two points, so it's two to one and a half.

01:07:26   I hope I don't regret my generosity.

01:07:28   Oh man, okay.

01:07:30   So this one you're gonna know for sure.

01:07:34   What was the follow-up to Apple's project Copeland supposed to be named?

01:07:41   The follow-up to Copeland?

01:07:43   Yeah.

01:07:43   Well Rhapsody, well what came next? I don't really know if it's a follow-up technically.

01:07:49   But in Apple's plans there was supposed to be co-planned followed by these other release.

01:07:56   It's hard to think and be on a podcast at the same time so just making noise.

01:08:00   Oh man I thought you were going to clear this question so easily.

01:08:07   So so Rhapsody was the next like the next OS release that also fell apart

01:08:14   So think about this. There's Gil Amelio. I think is the is the

01:08:18   CEO yeah hops on stage at WWDC and he starts talking about Copeland and

01:08:24   People start complaining already at the keynote

01:08:27   So he goes on stage after during the same event and he starts making a bunch of promises

01:08:33   for features that will be in Copeland and also will be in a follow-up release to Copeland.

01:08:39   What's the name of that release? And eventually, you know, Apple started talking about this release,

01:08:43   but then it came out when the entire project fell apart that the follow-up release,

01:08:49   no one was really working on it. It was all just a name up in the air.

01:08:55   I know Gershwin was in there. They had a bunch of music in it. Gershwin?

01:08:59   That's Gershwin. Yeah.

01:08:59   Yes!

01:09:00   There you go.

01:09:00   Boom!

01:09:01   That's how to get to it.

01:09:04   They had a bunch of weird code names in there.

01:09:06   None of it worked out.

01:09:08   No, none of them really.

01:09:11   And Gershwin, I did a bunch of reading, Gershwin basically didn't exist.

01:09:16   No engineer had actually started working on Gershwin.

01:09:18   It's like beyond vaporware.

01:09:20   Yes, it's like really non-ware.

01:09:24   It's nothing.

01:09:25   Non-ware.

01:09:26   (laughing)

01:09:29   All right, so we're up to question number three for me.

01:09:33   - So you're two and a half and I'm at two.

01:09:36   - Yes.

01:09:37   - Okay.

01:09:38   - All right.

01:09:39   How, what version of iOS unified the iPad and the iPhone?

01:09:44   - So the iPad launched with a weird fork of iOS 3,

01:09:50   I was probably iOS 3.2,

01:09:53   So I think they were unified by iOS.

01:09:57   - iOS 4.1.

01:10:00   - 4.1, oh crap, man.

01:10:01   - And I'm not gonna give you the point

01:10:03   because 4.0 came on the phone and the iPad,

01:10:06   the iPad was stuck on 3.2 or whatever it was.

01:10:10   And it was 4.1.

01:10:11   - Really?

01:10:12   - Yeah, it was weird.

01:10:13   This is super weird.

01:10:14   4.0 never shipped to the iPad.

01:10:16   - 4.0, yeah, all right, all right.

01:10:19   - I don't think you get that one, I'm sorry.

01:10:21   Next question. When did Scott Forsall become in charge of mecha S10 releases?

01:10:31   Are you looking for a year or release or an event? Release or an event. There's both

01:10:37   there's both a year and there's also a specific event that happened. Is it after

01:10:42   Bertrand left? No. It's gotta be. Or Avi? After Avi left? Yes it's after Avi left.

01:10:49   in 2006. Okay. So you got that right, man, you're just gonna get it at this game. Avi

01:10:57   was a boss, man. Yeah, I know. Yeah, there's going to be a link, I guess, to his full name

01:11:06   is Avadi Stivanyan. Yeah. Used to be the chief software technology position that is no longer

01:11:12   in Apple's leadership. Yeah. He was a Next guy, come here from Next. Yeah. All right.

01:11:18   So we're three and a half to two.

01:11:20   Okay I'm not gonna win this game mathematically.

01:11:23   Are you in the zone?

01:11:26   You can ask me but I'm not gonna win this game anyway.

01:11:29   If this is your last question.

01:11:31   Is this your last question?

01:11:32   Oh yeah two more.

01:11:33   Okay two more.

01:11:34   Okay.

01:11:35   And it's funny I have a question very similar to your Mavericks question.

01:11:39   Name two things released in iOS 8.

01:11:42   Oh well.

01:11:44   Extensions.

01:11:45   Okay.

01:11:46   And the new Today widgets for apps, custom keyboards, document picker.

01:11:53   I can go on.

01:11:55   [laughter]

01:11:57   Point. Health, continuity, lots of stuff. I always say I had a ton of stuff.

01:12:01   Yeah, yeah.

01:12:02   Ton of stuff.

01:12:03   This is my last question.

01:12:05   Okay.

01:12:05   Okay.

01:12:07   So, to set the stage for Drama.

01:12:08   Yes.

01:12:09   Three and a half to three. So I need to get this wrong and you need to get the next one right.

01:12:14   Yes.

01:12:14   And you win.

01:12:15   Okay.

01:12:15   How long did iTunes ping officially last?

01:12:21   One year?

01:12:22   Two years?

01:12:24   Or ten months?

01:12:25   Uh, I'm gonna go with ten months, 'cause it's the saddest.

01:12:28   And you got it wrong, it's two years.

01:12:30   Oh, oh man.

01:12:32   It was discontinued.

01:12:33   So let me give you the precise time here, but iTunes ping launched in 2010, in September 2010.

01:12:44   I'm just trying to open Wikipedia and it's surprisingly hard on my MacBook.

01:12:49   So...

01:12:51   You don't have any keys.

01:12:52   Here we go.

01:12:53   iTunes Ping launched on September 1st, 2010.

01:12:56   This continued officially on September 30, 2012.

01:13:00   That's a long time!

01:13:02   Yeah?

01:13:03   Oh, okay. So it's still three and a half to three.

01:13:09   Now is my chance to win this game.

01:13:11   Now is your chance to win.

01:13:13   Oh, this is so dramatic. Okay, we're gonna go we're gonna go all the way back. Oh

01:13:18   Man, how much did the original iPad weigh the original duty do the original iPad?

01:13:26   Yes

01:13:29   What can I give you grams?

01:13:31   Yes, I can convert them because I have a Mac that can do that sort of thing

01:13:34   I'm gonna say the original iPad

01:13:37   was

01:13:40   600 grams

01:13:42   680 weighed 1.5 pounds

01:13:45   Really?

01:13:47   Really? Okay. You thought it was heavier. Yeah, I thought it was heavier

01:13:51   Just for our American listeners 900 grams is 1.9 pounds. Yeah. Yeah, too heavy

01:13:56   All right, you win this game by half a point by half a point close. Yeah, I think I think we're both

01:14:01   we're both masters of our of our

01:14:06   Platform domains, I think is the lesson here. Good game Federico. You too. Definitely have a weak point in hardware details

01:14:12   That's all right, that's what Myke meant by different places. Yeah. Yeah that I'm a heart. I love hardware. Yes as

01:14:22   document on my youtube channel

01:14:25   So if you want to find links for this week including links that we're both going to put in to the document

01:14:31   Hopefully about our quiz

01:14:33   You can read all of those at relay.fm/connected/137

01:14:38   You can get in touch with us there. There's an email link. You can find us on Twitter of course

01:14:43   Myke is at I my ke if he ever comes back to the show

01:14:47   Federico's at vit I CCI and writes max stories dotnet and you can find me on Twitter as is mh

01:14:54   And I also write 512 pixels dotnet until next week Federico say goodbye. Are you there to?

01:15:03   Adios!