119: Tiered Levels of Surprise


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:06   from relay FM this is connected episode 119 today's show is brought to you by

00:00:11   Foote Cardigan mail route and away my name is Myke Hurley I am joined by Mr. Steven Hackett

00:00:17   hey so we're doing a round robin I think it's round robin um in regards to who's on the show

00:00:24   at the moment round robin so the listeners know we all had a terrible falling out

00:00:29   So now only two of us can be on the show at one time.

00:00:32   All three of us are on the show, we just argue.

00:00:36   That's what happens.

00:00:37   - It's been a strange couple of weeks,

00:00:38   but we should all be back next time.

00:00:41   - Who knows though, man, I'm moving house.

00:00:42   Like, I don't know where I'm gonna be

00:00:45   over the next few weeks.

00:00:46   - Well, we'll see how it goes.

00:00:47   That's the beauty of connected.

00:00:49   It can happen with any two of us.

00:00:51   - Yep, we all stay connected.

00:00:52   That's where it comes from, connected.

00:00:57   - I'm just gonna do follow up now.

00:00:58   Yeah, let's talk about the thing that just keeps coming up.

00:01:01   Yeah, so this 10.9 inch iPad Pro is back in the news.

00:01:05   And I feel like we're the only ones talking about this,

00:01:08   which I find interesting.

00:01:08   I think we're the only ones that really care.

00:01:10   Just don't care.

00:01:11   I think the two of you are the only people who really care.

00:01:14   So this new report says that it will be nearly bezel free.

00:01:20   Same overall footprint of the current 9.7 inch iPad Pro,

00:01:23   which we have been talking about.

00:01:26   the

00:01:28   interesting part is that it will be thicker

00:01:31   so

00:01:33   apple, what you doin' apple? That's not what they do

00:01:35   yeah so this is interesting this report comes from mac

00:01:38   otakara

00:01:39   uh... via mac rumors

00:01:41   and it seems that they're saying that both the refreshed ipads so the current

00:01:46   nine point seven

00:01:48   uh... will stay the same but the new ones maybe this ten nine and the new twelve

00:01:52   nine will both be thicker

00:01:55   Now I assume that there's some kind of display technology

00:01:57   thing going on here.

00:01:58   - Well, my thought is that there's stuff

00:02:02   behind those bezels.

00:02:03   And if you get rid of the bezels, especially the bottom one,

00:02:06   that stuff has to go somewhere else.

00:02:09   - That's a really good point.

00:02:10   - So they've got to like rearrange stuff a little bit.

00:02:14   It's like packing a suitcase, right?

00:02:16   And then you come back from San Francisco

00:02:18   and you have more stuff so you have to rearrange it.

00:02:20   - Yeah, that's just what it's like to build an iPad.

00:02:23   It's basically just packing a suitcase.

00:02:26   - It's packing a suitcase, but with A9s and battery.

00:02:30   See, I mean, it's not a big deal, right?

00:02:32   Like they're saying it's gonna be the thickness

00:02:35   of the original iPad Air, which is still thin and light,

00:02:39   and if it gets rid of the camera bump,

00:02:41   like I am fine with it. - Oh yeah.

00:02:43   - I hate the camera bump.

00:02:45   - That should happen, right?

00:02:46   - Yeah, I really dislike the camera bump

00:02:48   on my 9.7-inch iPad Pro.

00:02:50   Even though it's more pronounced on the iPhone,

00:02:53   the plus because it's, you know, elongated.

00:02:56   I feel like I'm always smashing it into things on my iPad

00:02:59   and I really wish the back was flat.

00:03:01   So if they could do that, then thumbs up from me.

00:03:05   - Just put it in a create case like me,

00:03:07   a Logitech create case, and then you get a superior keyboard

00:03:09   with a backlight and you never have to worry about the bump.

00:03:12   - It's also like the size of my laptop.

00:03:14   - It does make it basically the dimensions

00:03:17   of a hardback biography.

00:03:19   - Yeah. - But it's fine.

00:03:20   I wouldn't worry about it.

00:03:21   One of the things that's new I think in this report, which just boggles my mind, is that

00:03:26   there is a 7.9 inch iPad mini pro apparently coming.

00:03:33   I can't get my head around this.

00:03:35   I mean I guess it means that it has pencil support, which would be kind of cool.

00:03:38   I was telling you the other night, we have an iPad mini in the house, we may have a second

00:03:43   one soon, but I always find myself drawn to the iPad mini, like just as an around the

00:03:49   the house device and I've thought about several times about replacing my Kindle

00:03:53   with it and I don't know but it's ridiculous I'm not great like I don't

00:03:57   need multiple iPads but it's a it's something that I think about because I

00:04:02   really like that size for consumption and for reading and for games and stuff

00:04:06   but I could see it being kind of cool with the pencil right because you can

00:04:09   kind of put that in a jacket pocket and like you have like a little digital

00:04:13   notebook that you take around with you everywhere so I'm not I'm not as down on

00:04:17   that as I think you are.

00:04:18   Okay. That makes a lot of sense. I just have... It reminds me of The Incredibles, right? If

00:04:25   all iPads are pro, are any of them pro?

00:04:29   That's a good point.

00:04:31   I just think at this point, I don't know, there's something about that that I don't

00:04:35   like. I feel like if it then it just becomes the iPad line and then it loses some of the

00:04:39   proneness. Like I feel like the iPad Pro should be its own line of iPad, right? Like the MacBook

00:04:45   Pro. Like and then you have like special features, advanced features go to the Pro line, but

00:04:50   then they still have a regular line because what's going to happen is the regular line

00:04:54   are just old iPad Pros. And that's just that kind of just sucks. Like, yeah, it doesn't

00:05:00   work. And then it just looks like are they are they actually making a pro iOS device?

00:05:05   Or are they just trying to make iPads more expensive? So the ASP goes up? Ding, ding,

00:05:11   And then I'm not sure.

00:05:14   And then I'm just not sure.

00:05:16   But I am super excited for this other iPad,

00:05:20   this 10.9 inch with 9.7 footprint.

00:05:24   I was filling out the notes document

00:05:27   and reading this article last night in bed

00:05:30   on my 9.7 inch iPad Pro.

00:05:33   And I was thinking,

00:05:34   if I just had more screen real estate on this,

00:05:37   it would be perfect.

00:05:38   because I prefer to use my 9 7 most of the time,

00:05:42   but I use the 12 9 when I've got something serious to do

00:05:44   'cause I can benefit from the bigger screen.

00:05:46   But if I could have a screen that kind of sits

00:05:48   in the middle of those two, I might only need that one.

00:05:52   Like for, I mean, I don't really need two iPads, right?

00:05:55   Let's be serious about this,

00:05:56   but I've gone over this a bunch of times.

00:05:58   But like I feel like I would be more than can,

00:06:00   maybe potentially be more than content

00:06:02   with just one of them.

00:06:03   If I have more screen real estate, bigger screen,

00:06:06   but in the same size, like in the same package,

00:06:10   that's very appealing to me.

00:06:12   - Yeah, I agree.

00:06:13   I went from the 12.9 and actually have gone back

00:06:15   to the 9.7 because the portability factor,

00:06:19   but I have that same feeling of like the 9.7,

00:06:21   like when you're multitasking,

00:06:22   especially with the software keyboard,

00:06:24   it's like there's not a lot of space left.

00:06:26   And something a little bit bigger would be nice.

00:06:29   I do have some questions.

00:06:31   I would hope that Apple would treat this

00:06:34   like they do the 12.9.

00:06:35   Like if you build for the 12.9 and the bigger Pro keyboard,

00:06:38   that keyboard is on this one.

00:06:39   So it's not a third target that developers can ignore.

00:06:42   - Yeah, I hope they can do something funky

00:06:44   with the resolution.

00:06:47   Like you remember when the, I think,

00:06:48   was it the iPad Mini where it was like,

00:06:50   wow, it's like a regular iPad just all shrunk down.

00:06:54   Like I kind of hope they do something like that.

00:06:56   - Right, the same resolution is on the, like the iPad 2,

00:06:59   but smaller, so it was a higher density,

00:07:02   but the same actual dimensions.

00:07:04   - Yeah.

00:07:05   - I think they probably will do something like that

00:07:06   just so they don't, I mean iPad Pro,

00:07:09   I mean you know this having a 12.9,

00:07:10   there are still apps that don't support it.

00:07:12   Like what, a year later?

00:07:14   That's not gonna get any better

00:07:17   if they have a third target.

00:07:18   So my guess is that they will do something like this

00:07:21   where the 12.9 dimensions will be downsized to the 10.9

00:07:26   and everything will just be a little tight, but you know.

00:07:28   - But then it will push development

00:07:29   for the larger resolution, right?

00:07:32   - I hope so.

00:07:33   - To get like the three panel stuff.

00:07:34   If both of the iPads then have it,

00:07:36   it might be like, "Oh, okay, we'll do it."

00:07:38   That's my hope.

00:07:39   - I think so.

00:07:40   So talking about iPads,

00:07:42   real quickly I just wanted to point people

00:07:44   to a new Studio Neat products,

00:07:46   our friends of ours, Tom and Dan,

00:07:48   and they have a really cool keyboard case for the iPad,

00:07:52   and it's unlike the monstrosity of the Logitech.

00:07:55   Just a little fabric thing

00:07:57   that you actually attach a Bluetooth Magic Keyboard to,

00:08:01   so the keyboard that I'm sitting in front of right now

00:08:03   my iMac and you can pair it with Bluetooth and it's nice because it's not

00:08:06   actually a case it's like a stand that you put the iMac in or the you put the

00:08:11   iPad in and then take it out when you don't need it so unlike the the iPad

00:08:16   smart keyboard you know that's always attached this is kind of its own

00:08:20   secondary thing so you could have just your iPad and when you want to write you

00:08:24   can sit down and use this I had the pleasure of using a beta version of this

00:08:28   like Jason Snell did we all talked about an upgrade yesterday so if you type

00:08:33   a lot on your iPad but you find yourself wanting a keyboard that you know isn't

00:08:40   really available to you yet try this one because the magic keyboard is great and

00:08:42   this makes it a really nice little package to use with your tablet so it's

00:08:46   a it's a nice little product. Here you go check it out put link in the

00:08:50   show notes so you can go pre-order one. I love Tom and Dan so buy their stuff.

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00:11:00   Thank you so much to Foote Cardigan for their support of this show and Relay FM.

00:11:06   In case anybody hadn't noticed, the two of us have become increasingly interested in

00:11:12   YouTube.

00:11:16   We have our own YouTube channels, we both publish YouTube videos fairly frequently.

00:11:21   You should go and check them out, I will put links in the show notes to both of our YouTube

00:11:24   channels if for some reason you have not subscribed to them, you totally should.

00:11:29   And I think that we are both fans of superstar YouTuber Casey Neistat.

00:11:37   I've been a big fan of Casey Neistat for a while.

00:11:39   Me and Nadino are still kind of going through all of his old vlog episodes.

00:11:43   I think it was last week he announced that he was ending his vlog and that he wanted

00:11:47   to work on new projects.

00:11:50   Didn't really give much away and there was a good reason for that because yesterday it

00:11:54   It was announced that Casey Neistat's company Beam, which was a social video sharing app

00:12:00   that he was a co-founder of, they got bought by CNN.

00:12:06   That's crazy.

00:12:08   Which is a very interesting acquisition.

00:12:11   Beam, the app itself and the service is being shut down.

00:12:16   CNN does not want that.

00:12:18   But they are using Casey Neistat and the team along with his co-founder Matt Hackett.

00:12:26   Great name Hackett.

00:12:27   It's a great name.

00:12:28   It's a solid, you know, you really want your co-founder's last name to be Hackett.

00:12:31   All the best co-founders go by the name Hackett.

00:12:35   They are going to be going to CNN along with a team of 12 people to create a new content

00:12:40   production team.

00:12:42   Apparently it's going to be mostly autonomous from CNN.

00:12:45   CNN's done another thing like this recently, I can't remember the name of it, but they

00:12:49   had another kind of production company that they've started which is basically just

00:12:55   there to create more content.

00:12:57   And they are doing this to effectively try and reach people that the current CNN programming

00:13:04   does not reach.

00:13:06   Yeah, their previous effort just to stop the follow up is called Great Big Story.

00:13:13   it's like a this team that operates kind of independently of CNN. I found it I

00:13:19   found this super fascinating like Beam itself I maybe we should explain how the

00:13:23   app worked I don't think it was ever super popular but the idea was that you

00:13:28   would just take your phone and basically you would like hold it to your chest or

00:13:32   hold it to a surface and it would instantly like share was it like four

00:13:37   seconds or six seconds of video yeah there was no editing the idea was to be

00:13:41   really raw and like this is what I'm seeing, I'm just sharing it directly with

00:13:44   the internet. That's a really interesting idea. It didn't really take off, I think

00:13:49   for a bunch of reasons that maybe we can get into, but the why I find it so

00:13:55   interesting is CNN along with a lot of other traditional media outlets,

00:14:00   some people roll their eyes at calling CNN like a traditional outlet, it's only

00:14:03   been around since the 80s, but you know these big like international news

00:14:07   corporations have a growing void in their audience. And it's that audience that people

00:14:14   like Casey Neistat have access to. People who we're on the older end of, right? Like

00:14:22   you're in your late 20s, I'm 30, we're the oldest fringe of this group and people younger

00:14:27   than us, millennials and whatever's behind millennials, those consumers as they're not

00:14:35   tuning into CNN, they're not reading the New York Times.

00:14:38   And that's okay for now,

00:14:41   but what happens when these people

00:14:44   are in their 30s, in their 40s, in their 50s,

00:14:48   when they are the driving force of the economy

00:14:52   more so than they are now?

00:14:54   And if you have a brand that isn't reaching those people,

00:14:56   that's a scary proposition, right?

00:14:57   That right now, if you don't have millennials

00:15:00   paying attention to you,

00:15:02   when they're ruling the world,

00:15:04   that's gonna be bad for you.

00:15:06   And so it's a move on CNN's part to work

00:15:10   to reach that audience.

00:15:11   I think they'll be successful there.

00:15:13   I think there are a lot of people that will follow,

00:15:14   you know, Casey and I, a set of people like him

00:15:16   wherever they go.

00:15:17   Surely there'll be people who think it's a sellout

00:15:19   and that happens in all sorts of acquisitions.

00:15:21   But like buying your way into a marketplace

00:15:24   is a pretty old business trick,

00:15:26   but it's one that can be effective.

00:15:28   And it's something that, you know, brands like CNN,

00:15:32   they have to do, right?

00:15:33   - It happens in Silicon Valley all the time.

00:15:35   Look at Facebook.

00:15:35   - Yeah, exactly.

00:15:37   Facebook saw that Instagram is where a lot of people were.

00:15:42   A lot of people who kind of thought Facebook was uncool.

00:15:44   And so they just brought Instagram into the fold.

00:15:48   - And they saw people were chatting in other places

00:15:50   and they bought WhatsApp and then they liked the idea of VR

00:15:52   and they bought Oculus.

00:15:54   - Exactly, and what Facebook is doing,

00:15:56   for all the problems of Facebook,

00:15:58   we're not getting into that today,

00:15:59   but for all the problems of Facebook,

00:16:01   One thing they do very well is play this defensive strategy

00:16:04   that you just outlined.

00:16:05   There's a popular thing going on,

00:16:08   it's outside the Facebook universe,

00:16:10   and it's in Facebook's best interest

00:16:11   to bring that into the Facebook universe, right?

00:16:13   So they've done it time and time again,

00:16:14   I'm sure they'll do it again,

00:16:15   I'm sure at some point next year or the year after

00:16:17   there'll be some big acquisition that they make.

00:16:20   Maybe it's Twitter.

00:16:21   - Oh man.

00:16:22   - 'Cause they want you to be on their platform, right?

00:16:24   'Cause that's how they monetize,

00:16:26   that's how they stay in business.

00:16:28   So CNN is doing that with Beam

00:16:31   And I think what this is really about

00:16:33   is the people behind Beam, Nystat and Hackett

00:16:37   and their team of people.

00:16:38   And they're going to be making content

00:16:41   through this new lens.

00:16:44   And I just find it super interesting.

00:16:47   I think it will be, my guess is it will be successful.

00:16:49   Nystat has a huge audience.

00:16:51   - And he's smart.

00:16:52   - Super smart.

00:16:54   - When I look at this, I'm like, okay,

00:16:56   what do I think they're doing here?

00:16:58   I think what they're doing is like creating a website which will have video on it, right?

00:17:03   But not just Casey Neistat video, right?

00:17:06   They will create tools and stuff that they will try and bring creators over from YouTube

00:17:11   into this system to create exclusive content.

00:17:14   That's kind of how I look at what's going on here.

00:17:16   That's what I think this is.

00:17:17   And they're going to use maybe the Beam team to create the tools that are needed and then

00:17:23   use the almost snake charming like ability of Casey Neistat to bring people to the platform.

00:17:30   I think it's very very smart and I think it's very smart on the part of CNN to not brand

00:17:35   it as CNN kids. Do you know what it's like? It's just like you just go do your thing with

00:17:41   a parent company but you just go do your thing because they're never going to get people

00:17:46   like me and you even to watch it if it's CNN branded because like I just don't care. But

00:17:52   If it's this own little thing that just is fresh and young and fits the kind of the aesthetic

00:17:59   that me and you are gravitated towards, it makes perfect sense.

00:18:04   I'm super excited to see what comes out of this.

00:18:07   Right.

00:18:08   And it's, people in the chat room are asking, CNN tried this citizen journalism thing big

00:18:14   time a couple of years ago where if you see some tragedy, you pull your iPhone out.

00:18:19   They had an app.

00:18:20   Yeah, I remember that.

00:18:21   called iReporter or something.

00:18:23   I may have totally made that name up.

00:18:26   - CNN iReport.

00:18:28   - Yeah, that's it. - Yeah, you were right.

00:18:30   - This seems like Niestat and his group

00:18:35   are going to be creating content for this new brand,

00:18:38   and maybe they're creating some tools as well.

00:18:41   Different articles kind of say different things

00:18:42   a little bit, but I don't think this is like a deep dive

00:18:47   back into that world, and that's like a whole topic

00:18:51   for another time, but I think really what this is

00:18:54   is CNN having a brand that people are going to be

00:18:59   more likely to engage with.

00:19:02   People who see CNN as like the only time they see

00:19:04   is when they're in a doctor's office

00:19:06   or when they're at the airport,

00:19:07   or they're stuck somewhere and it's on.

00:19:10   They're never there by their own free will.

00:19:12   That's where they're trying to change.

00:19:13   They're trying to make their content platform a destination.

00:19:17   And this is a pretty interesting way of going about that.

00:19:21   I agree with you, I think it's a smart move

00:19:25   on everyone's part.

00:19:26   And I'm excited to see where it goes.

00:19:27   Like, you know, we own, we're gonna talk about it

00:19:30   the rest of the show, like we own a media company.

00:19:32   Like that's really what Relay is.

00:19:34   And so I'm always interested to see what happens

00:19:37   in this industry as people try to make decisions

00:19:40   and make moves and try to realign.

00:19:42   We see this with what AOL's been doing.

00:19:47   or what Verizon's been doing.

00:19:48   So they bought AOL.

00:19:49   They're buying Yahoo still, I think,

00:19:51   even after the crazy email thing.

00:19:53   Verizon is trying to get into this business

00:19:55   and they're going about it by buying these existing,

00:19:58   albeit dying, media companies

00:20:00   and trying to build something together.

00:20:02   I don't think it's gonna be successful,

00:20:03   but it's an interesting case study

00:20:04   on maybe how people do it.

00:20:06   I was a little surprised to read the story, honestly,

00:20:10   but I think once I digested it,

00:20:12   I think it makes a lot of sense.

00:20:14   - I knew something was coming

00:20:15   just because I watch all of his videos.

00:20:18   Like I could tell that an acquisition was in the wings

00:20:20   like 'cause he just was kind of roughly mentioning things

00:20:23   and I could feel that the vlog was cooling down as well

00:20:26   but I never would have predicted this.

00:20:28   I would have expected like an Instagram or someone,

00:20:31   you know, just buy up Beam to get the talent.

00:20:34   This is a unpredicted, like I wouldn't have predicted

00:20:36   a news company to buy them.

00:20:39   But what I like about it is as a fan of Casey Neistat's work

00:20:45   this acquisition doesn't hide him from the world.

00:20:47   You know, like if a tech company bought him,

00:20:49   he may never see him again, right?

00:20:50   Like he just gets swallowed up inside of the organization.

00:20:54   - Yeah, if he gets swallowed by the Apple News team,

00:20:57   he's gone.

00:20:58   - Exactly.

00:20:59   - And he says he's gonna still be doing his own videos,

00:21:01   that his channel is not part of this.

00:21:04   So I think if you're a fan of what he does,

00:21:07   then there'll still be plenty of content.

00:21:10   All right, so it is approaching the end of the year, right?

00:21:15   We're approaching the end of 2016.

00:21:17   So we thought that considering it's just me and you

00:21:19   on the show today, that we could do a Relay FM Q&A.

00:21:24   I kind of consider this as like a state of Relay FM

00:21:27   for the year, like a 2016 State of the Union type dealio.

00:21:31   So we're gonna get into that

00:21:32   for the rest of the episode today.

00:21:33   Before we do, let me take a moment

00:21:35   to thank our second sponsor, a company I'm very excited about

00:21:38   company called Away. Away creates amazing luggage made from the highest quality materials

00:21:44   around while offering a lower price compared to other brands.

00:21:51   If you go to awaytravel.com/connected you can peruse Away's collection of suitcases

00:21:59   all made with premium German polycarbonate which is unrivalled in strength and impact

00:22:04   resistance while still remaining lightweight. They have four sizes of suitcase. The carry-on,

00:22:09   the bigger carry-on, the medium and the large. Very simple names. You know exactly what you're

00:22:13   getting and they have nine fantastic colors that you can choose from. The interior of

00:22:17   the No Way suitcase features a patent pending compression system which is incredibly helpful

00:22:21   if you're an over packer like me. In the carry-on bag that I have, so they sent me a carry-on

00:22:25   bag, the compression system even includes an integrated laptop and iPad holder. So you

00:22:30   usually have those straps that you clip over the clothes, right? This one has this like

00:22:34   big pad on top which you can put an iPad or laptop into.

00:22:40   The iPad holder is built into the compression system which then also suspends it in the

00:22:44   middle of the case for impact resistance.

00:22:46   Genius.

00:22:47   All of their cases feature 360 degree spinner wheels.

00:22:50   There's 4 of them.

00:22:51   Once you go to 4 wheels and a suitcase you can never go back.

00:22:54   They have TSA combination locks, they have a removable washable laundry bag which is

00:22:58   awesome.

00:22:59   hotel room, I grab a bag from one of the dry cleaning bags from the wardrobes and I put

00:23:06   my dirty clothes into there. Now I have a bag that's kind of hidden inside of my suitcase.

00:23:11   Awesome. But the best, my single favourite feature of the Away suitcase, this is, I can't

00:23:16   believe nobody's ever known this before, it has an integrated USB power brick. Both sides

00:23:21   of the carry-on feature USB ports integrated into the suitcase, right on the top underneath

00:23:26   where the handle is, so you can charge your devices whilst travelling. Your phone, your

00:23:29   tablet, your e-reader. If it's powered by USB, you're set. You'll never be without power

00:23:34   again. There is a kind of hilarious thing there where I charge my suitcase, but it means

00:23:38   that when I travel, I have access to power always.

00:23:41   Await believes in the quality of their products. They are for a lifetime guarantee. If anything

00:23:46   breaks, they'll fix it or replace it for life. They have a 100 day trial as well. They want

00:23:50   you to live with it, they want you to travel with it. And if at any point you decide that

00:23:54   case isn't for you, return it for a full refund no question asked. They currently ship for

00:23:58   free in the US and also ship to Canada, the UK, Germany, Sweden and Australia. There is

00:24:03   no better time than the holiday season to be getting an away case. They have a whole

00:24:07   selection of stuff that's fantastic for gifts. They have two limited edition colours, snow

00:24:11   and asphalt for the holidays and they have a couple of extra products that they're doing

00:24:15   as well. They have a gift set which includes a little toiletry case, so it's like a mini

00:24:20   away suitcase it has travel socks a gift card and an asops jet set toiletries kit in it

00:24:26   they're also introducing a passport holder and luggage tag set and a 100% baby alpaca

00:24:31   travel blanket this is way cosier than the blankets that you'll be finding on airplanes

00:24:36   they have a whole host of options as i mentioned go check them out to find out more go to awaytravel.com/connected

00:24:42   use the code connected at checkout and you will get $20 off any of their suitcases that's

00:24:48   awaytravel.com/connected and the code connected for $20 off. I am super excited about this

00:24:53   product. Go check them out. Thank you so much to Awaay for their support of this show and

00:24:57   Relay FM. Man, integrated power into a suitcase. It's genius. It's genius. Alright, so we got

00:25:05   a ton of questions today. So I'll start. First one comes from Thomas. Thomas asked, "How

00:25:11   much time is spent by each of you on creative work versus business work for Relay FM? Just

00:25:17   starting my own creative company in game development interested to see how you carve up your time?"

00:25:22   Steven?

00:25:23   So I do fewer shows than you, so I think your answers are going to be different. For me,

00:25:29   roughly I'd probably say 70% of my relay time is behind the scenes and only 30% are

00:25:34   in shows and production. That's changing a little bit, but I think that's kind of

00:25:39   roughly where I am. And one thing I would say to Thomas is that this ratio for me has

00:25:44   has changed over time.

00:25:45   When we were first starting,

00:25:48   it was like 90% admin behind the scenes time, right?

00:25:51   'Cause we have a lot of stuff you have to do

00:25:53   kind of in that startup mode

00:25:54   and now that we have processes and things in place,

00:25:57   it's a little bit different.

00:25:58   So I don't know if there's a right or wrong answer

00:26:00   but I do firmly believe that it will change over time

00:26:03   over the course of your business.

00:26:05   What about you?

00:26:06   - I kind of, rather than percentage,

00:26:09   I don't know why I chose to do it this way

00:26:10   but like if I imagine I work for nine hours a day,

00:26:13   which is not true.

00:26:14   Yeah, that'd be great if it was only nine hours a day.

00:26:17   So good.

00:26:18   Maybe just double these.

00:26:19   Let's say if I worked for 18 hours a day, I would say about eight to ten of those hours

00:26:24   was recording and editing and the rest was business related.

00:26:27   So I would say it's roughly half and half, I think.

00:26:30   And that is just because I do so many shows.

00:26:34   So I work long days for that reason so I can fit everything in.

00:26:37   But that's how I like it though.

00:26:39   I wouldn't change it.

00:26:40   It's not a complaint.

00:26:42   It really doesn't bother me in the slightest.

00:26:45   - Ganon asks, "How do you decide to create a new show?

00:26:48   "Do you seek out the hosts that match a topic

00:26:50   "or do people pitch your ideas?"

00:26:53   - I think about 95% of the time, I think,

00:26:56   looking at the shows that we have,

00:26:57   it's usually people first and topic second.

00:27:01   So typically it's people will come to us

00:27:03   or we have people that we're interested in talking to

00:27:05   and we just talk through what ideas do you have

00:27:07   and then find an idea that works.

00:27:09   And I think it's fair to say we like to be involved in any way we can in helping shape

00:27:14   the idea and kind of make it the best show that it can be.

00:27:17   Yeah, I think that's well said.

00:27:23   Alexandria asked, "How many minutes or hours do you need to work for one episode of a regular

00:27:29   show?"

00:27:30   I don't know why, but Alexandria excluded "Ungenious" and "Cortex" from this.

00:27:34   I have an answer for both of those shows.

00:27:37   So let's take Connected for instance. What do you think the ratio is?

00:27:43   I think it differs for the three of us. Right? So I would say on average it's the same

00:27:51   from all of my shows actually except for Ungenius and Cortex funnily enough. So he did actually

00:27:56   pick the right shows but I did wonder why he did it. But for me I would say it's around

00:28:00   one and a half to two minutes of surrounding work for every minute recorded. And that's

00:28:05   Typically because I edit as well as like so, you know, we all do the show planning

00:28:09   For all of the shows everybody's involved in the planning which I would say is you know that that can be like

00:28:14   Half of the time or maybe you know

00:28:17   All the whole time of the show and then the editing as well on the other end

00:28:20   Will add the kind of the same kind of ratio. So typically typically say for a show like connected

00:28:25   It's like a minute each side. So a minute a planning for every minute recorded in a minute of editing for every minute recorded

00:28:31   Yep confusing, but that's the kind of the way I describe it

00:28:34   No, I think that makes sense. So I mean, I think he picked cortex because I think y'all talked about on the show the editing process

00:28:39   Is intense. I would say I would say for cortex. We're probably closer to ten minutes for every minute

00:28:46   I'm not even kidding

00:28:46   like if you consider the amount of time that we talk

00:28:48   then the recording then the editing and then the production the production of the YouTube and then managed like kind of

00:28:55   Moderating and managing the reddit like it's a much much much much bigger job. Mm-hmm

00:29:01   So ingenious to show that you and I do about weird Wikipedia articles. Yes. It's a real thing

00:29:07   I don't even know its cortex

00:29:11   levels of madness

00:29:14   The editing process is very long on that show if you ever listened I edit it extremely tightly

00:29:20   But and genius is actually completely scripted like I we sit down and we pick a topic and I go off and I write

00:29:27   six seven eight nine pages

00:29:30   That takes hours of writing, hours of research.

00:29:34   There has actually been, I think, maybe one instance where you wrote a joke for me, which

00:29:38   was amazing.

00:29:39   I felt so fancy.

00:29:42   And that's for a show that's ten minutes long twice a month.

00:29:45   So, "Ungenius" is probably the most lopsided thing I do, but I think it's really worth

00:29:52   it.

00:29:53   The funny thing about "Ungenius" and the reason the ungenius--which maybe, because

00:29:56   that sounds weird, right, when you say "ungenius" is scripted.

00:29:58   There is a reason that Ungenius is scripted. You may or may not know if you've ever listened

00:30:02   to the show. You should listen to the show because it's super short, like you can easily

00:30:05   fit it into your into your queue. It's like 10, 15 minutes in total every two weeks and

00:30:12   you learn really weird stuff. So you should go and check it out for sure. But we did this

00:30:16   show once before, me and you, many, many, many, many years ago. It was the first show

00:30:20   that me and you ever worked on together. It was your idea. We created this show called

00:30:24   ingenious. And it wasn't very good. There were some episodes that were great, and there

00:30:31   were some episodes that were horrific. So we decided we needed a tighter show, right?

00:30:40   We needed to make it tighter, we needed to do better research, we needed to plan it out

00:30:43   better. So we did that. Then the first episode that we did still needed work, right? And

00:30:48   it took way longer to edit. And then we kind of fell on the idea of maybe we should just

00:30:53   write it. So we do that. So you write out a big script kind of thing like bullet points,

00:30:59   then I go in and I add some stuff and or I change some of the stuff so it's so it's in

00:31:05   my written in my style, you know, so I'll change some words. I'll change while to whilst

00:31:09   for example. Right. So like, you know, I go in and do that. And then we record the show.

00:31:15   And yeah, it's funny because it's like, yeah, it takes probably the same kind of time like

00:31:19   that maybe the five to ten minutes per minute recorded for you to do, but luckily enough,

00:31:24   it's an eleven minute show.

00:31:26   Right.

00:31:27   Yeah, if it's any longer, there's no way we could do it, so.

00:31:31   But Ungenius is an example of how me and you believe in experimentation with Real AFM,

00:31:38   and we try and foster this in a lot of the shows that are here and kind of try new things.

00:31:43   And this is new in the way that we don't have any other show that's like this, that's like

00:31:48   written out quite closely. And there are a lot of shows that exist this way that are

00:31:53   written out. Like a lot of the NPR style shows, or the public radio style shows, a lot of

00:31:58   that is scripted stuff. And so we tried it and I think it's going really well.

00:32:03   Agreed.

00:32:04   All right, so who's reading this one? I've lost where we are. I think it's your turn.

00:32:11   - My turn.

00:32:12   Haken, Haken, Haken Haken.

00:32:17   Sorry, many apologies.

00:32:18   The hardest thing about ingenious is pronouncing names.

00:32:21   The hardest part about Q and A, pronouncing names.

00:32:24   - But the great thing about scripting the show

00:32:25   is we can just change the lines,

00:32:26   and I do most of the name pronunciation.

00:32:29   - It's true.

00:32:30   Yeah, yeah, if you wrote the script, it would be different.

00:32:33   Are you trying to get more sponsors

00:32:34   who are relevant to people outside of the US?

00:32:37   Myke, you're outside of the US,

00:32:39   so I'm gonna let you answer this.

00:32:40   So there's a few tangents for this.

00:32:43   One, our audience as a whole is roughly 60% in the US.

00:32:48   And then from there, it breaks into 10% chunks

00:32:52   for Canada and the United Kingdom.

00:32:54   And then on average, then it gets into single digits

00:32:57   for the rest of the world.

00:32:59   So I would love to have more companies

00:33:02   that sell things worldwide.

00:33:04   And that's something we're working on.

00:33:05   I just spoke about Away.

00:33:06   Away, they ship to a bunch of countries, not just the US,

00:33:10   which is not normal for the types of companies that we have that sell physical products.

00:33:14   Like a lot of those are just US based. One of the reasons I was really excited about

00:33:17   Away is that they ship to a bunch of different countries. The problem we have is we can't

00:33:24   really get a company that just ships in Europe, right? Like a company that just, because they

00:33:33   They are only going to hit 30% relevance of our audience.

00:33:38   And we're still going to charge them what it costs for an ad.

00:33:42   We can't discount an ad by 60% for that.

00:33:46   So this is where some of the struggles happen.

00:33:48   So we are working to find more companies that

00:33:52   sell things worldwide.

00:33:55   But our sponsors still have to have a strong US focus

00:33:58   for the reason of percentages.

00:34:00   So we have to be fair to the companies.

00:34:02   I can't get a UK company,

00:34:06   sometimes I have companies from the UK contact me

00:34:07   and I just outline it to them.

00:34:08   It's like if you don't ship to the US,

00:34:11   I don't think that you're gonna get

00:34:13   what's worth your money for this.

00:34:14   - Right.

00:34:15   - Because they're only gonna hit

00:34:17   maybe 10 to 12% of an audience,

00:34:19   which is probably not enough for them to make their return.

00:34:23   So yes, it's something I'm working on.

00:34:25   But you know it's gotta be a struggle for me, right?

00:34:28   There are a lot of stuff that I actually can't buy.

00:34:31   like Eero for example, right?

00:34:33   They're a great company.

00:34:34   I really want their product,

00:34:36   but I can't plug it into my wall.

00:34:38   So that's why like when it goes to the Eero ads,

00:34:41   I'll throw over to Steve and I, Jason,

00:34:42   because they have the product and they've used it.

00:34:45   But yeah, it's frustrating.

00:34:46   And I actually do know that Eero is trying to expand.

00:34:50   We have a bunch of companies that like that,

00:34:51   they're trying to expand.

00:34:53   But that's kind of the way it is.

00:34:55   It does suck, but I tell you what,

00:34:58   if you live in Europe,

00:35:00   Get your friends to listen to the show.

00:35:01   Let's disrupt the totals and then we can go crazy.

00:35:04   - That's a good question.

00:35:07   - I hope that answers it.

00:35:08   I know it's tricky.

00:35:09   I feel it, but there really is as well

00:35:13   just more advertising money in the US.

00:35:15   This is just a fact.

00:35:17   The podcast market in general is bigger in the US,

00:35:20   so the advertisers are there as well.

00:35:22   It's economics, I'm afraid.

00:35:24   Storm asked, "Who created/manages

00:35:28   The Relay FM show notes system is truly best in class.

00:35:32   It's the most convenient implementation

00:35:34   I've seen so effective.

00:35:35   Thank you so much for saying that.

00:35:38   - Yeah, so we have a custom content management system

00:35:43   that we license and we end up purchasing

00:35:45   from the developer who wrote it.

00:35:47   And we now develop it ourselves.

00:35:49   And so everything you see is designed and chosen purposefully

00:35:54   and we're always working on it.

00:35:55   We're always pushing things to it.

00:35:57   Most of those aren't seen by the public, although some are.

00:36:01   So it's-- yeah, so thank you.

00:36:02   It's a lot of hard work and a lot of going back and forth,

00:36:04   trying to figure out how to do things in it.

00:36:06   But yeah, I agree.

00:36:08   I think we do really-- I think all of our hosts

00:36:11   do a good job putting links in and putting content in there.

00:36:14   And I know it's frustrating to me

00:36:15   if I listen to a show elsewhere and I

00:36:17   go to find a link about something they're talking about

00:36:19   and they don't have it.

00:36:19   Yeah.

00:36:20   Or they could give it to their website or something.

00:36:21   So--

00:36:22   It's not just a technology thing.

00:36:23   It's also a mentality thing.

00:36:25   Right.

00:36:25   everybody here, we like to include additional materials into the notes. It's just a way

00:36:31   that we will operate.

00:36:32   Yup, so yeah, so thank you. That's something we strive to work hard on.

00:36:38   Man, the names!

00:36:40   Munish.

00:36:41   Munish asks, "When are you going to do the next London Meetup?"

00:36:48   Probably in June again before WWDC. We had a great time last time when Federico came

00:36:53   I'm probably gonna wait to do it then,

00:36:57   'cause it was a lot of work to try

00:36:59   and get that thing organized.

00:37:00   So hopefully we're gonna do it all again in June

00:37:04   if Federico comes to London again like he did.

00:37:06   So that'll be a lot of fun.

00:37:07   And then, you know, it's not just London though.

00:37:11   Let me think, what are we gonna be doing?

00:37:12   We're doing, hopefully, Atlanta for the Pen Show.

00:37:17   Should be going to DC for the DC Pen Show as well,

00:37:20   which is in August.

00:37:21   So I'll be doing some stuff there.

00:37:23   We do some meetups there.

00:37:24   San Francisco again, right?

00:37:25   That's on the cards.

00:37:27   We're gonna try and do a relaycon San Francisco.

00:37:29   And then there'll be some London meetups.

00:37:32   So we're trying to expand it.

00:37:33   It's really difficult to arrange these sorts of things,

00:37:38   especially to do them right.

00:37:39   I mean, I could show up in a bar and just say,

00:37:41   "Hey, come to the bar," but I don't like to do that.

00:37:43   We like to try and arrange it with the locations

00:37:46   and make sure that there's people there

00:37:48   like from a security perspective

00:37:50   and just to make sure that everybody's safe and having fun

00:37:53   and that it's all correctly arranged.

00:37:55   So we're trying to do more of those things,

00:37:59   mainly because I love meetups, I love them,

00:38:02   to get to meet people and say hi

00:38:04   and to be able to walk into a room and see actual people

00:38:08   and they all listen to your show

00:38:10   is one of the best feelings in the entire world.

00:38:14   - It's pretty awesome. - Yeah.

00:38:15   So yeah, we're trying to do more of them

00:38:17   and I think over the coming years,

00:38:19   we'll do more and more as more things get on the schedule,

00:38:23   as it were.

00:38:24   - Cool.

00:38:26   - All right, so, yeah, next up, Farzan.

00:38:31   Farzan said, "Not a question.

00:38:32   "Just wanted to say thank you.

00:38:34   "I couldn't imagine how much work it would take

00:38:36   "to manage a podcast network."

00:38:37   - All of the work, but thank you.

00:38:40   - It's all great work.

00:38:41   Yeah, it's a lot of work, but it's a lot of fun work.

00:38:45   - Yeah, Jonathan asks, "How long did it take

00:38:48   to make relationships with your new co-hosts and build up Relay FM? How do you reach out

00:38:53   to people?

00:38:56   I think, really, it's been a gradual process of working alongside and getting to know people

00:39:06   online in a little bubble over the last five to six years. I look at most of the people

00:39:13   that are a part of Relay FM and I've known them for a long time, interacted with them

00:39:19   for a long time and I think it's for both of us like the relationships that we built

00:39:24   with people over many years of working and producing content built a level of trust I

00:39:31   hope that made these people want to come to us, right?

00:39:36   - Yeah, yeah it's been a long time, you know.

00:39:40   You and I have been doing this a long time.

00:39:43   We've been working in this space for like six years.

00:39:46   I've been writing even longer than that.

00:39:47   Like it's not an overnight thing.

00:39:49   And a relay's only, well now two and a half years old.

00:39:52   But the ground work and everything that went into that,

00:39:56   we had a running start into it.

00:39:58   And it takes time, you know.

00:40:00   I think something that people don't realize

00:40:04   when they're starting out,

00:40:05   or starting something new is that you have to give it space,

00:40:07   you have to give it time to grow,

00:40:10   and that can be really frustrating, right?

00:40:12   We worked here a long time with no one knowing who we were

00:40:15   and not making any money, but it gets there.

00:40:19   You just have to have patience, you have to have trust,

00:40:21   you have to let it happen organically.

00:40:24   If you try to force it, then it can be weird and not work.

00:40:27   - We have a couple of questions

00:40:28   coming in from the chat room.

00:40:30   Milad asks, I know you are not seemingly interested

00:40:34   doing video podcasts anytime but do you have plans to publish video snippets of

00:40:38   each episode? Not really, honestly. We put Cortex on YouTube because it makes sense

00:40:46   to put Cortex on YouTube because Gray has a large YouTube presence. Outside of

00:40:52   that I'm honestly not convinced that it's worth the amount of time that it

00:40:59   would take. Do you agree with that? I agree with time and investment that

00:41:04   that video is, we both know it from our own YouTube stuff,

00:41:08   personally that video is expensive and time consuming

00:41:11   and the reality is, podcasts, I'm sitting in my office,

00:41:15   I'm wearing headphones, I have a curtain behind me,

00:41:18   like it doesn't make for compelling video,

00:41:20   so I think if we, right now you and I

00:41:23   are exploring YouTube independently,

00:41:25   but if we were able to do something on YouTube together

00:41:27   as relay, it would not be this, it would be something else,

00:41:33   some other type of format, some other sort of content.

00:41:35   - We have the idea of doing something, right?

00:41:38   We don't have an idea, but we have definitely said

00:41:41   if something comes up, we would do it,

00:41:43   like a Relay FM YouTube project.

00:41:47   We just don't have any really compelling ideas, I think.

00:41:50   - Yeah.

00:41:51   - And Will asked, what was the first Relay FM episode,

00:41:56   I can't even remember, so, and then R.H.O. in the chatroom

00:41:59   dug up the web archive so you can go and take a look yourself, but I'll put it in the show

00:42:04   notes.

00:42:05   We did, um, I think our launch went really well.

00:42:09   Uh, and in a way that I think we didn't necessarily expect, but I think hopefully what it shows

00:42:14   is that we knew what we were doing at the time.

00:42:17   We had five shows and the first episode of all of those shows we published on launch

00:42:22   day.

00:42:23   So all simultaneously.

00:42:24   We had, I interviewed Marco and we were talking about like Overcast and his kind of place

00:42:33   in the world at that point.

00:42:34   We did a special of Connected about the origin and evolution of the iPod.

00:42:41   The Pan-Addict, we just did episode 116.

00:42:44   We just came back and just did a show because we're taking a break.

00:42:49   The first episode of Virtual, which was the video game show which became remaster, me

00:42:54   me and Federico spoke about our experiences with the,

00:42:56   I think, newly released PS4,

00:42:58   and then the first episode of Analog,

00:43:00   which was the first truly new show,

00:43:01   like that hadn't been rebranded in any way,

00:43:04   we did the first episode of a new show

00:43:06   where me and Casey introduced

00:43:07   what Analog would be to the world.

00:43:09   - Man, like this archive.org link is,

00:43:15   it's just crazy how small things were.

00:43:17   - Yeah, yeah, that was a long time ago, August 2014.

00:43:23   was. Next question kind of fits in with that question from Eddie. There are so

00:43:29   many great relay shows I try to keep up with too many how do I decide what to

00:43:33   listen to? So my recommendation for this would be go to our homepage because we

00:43:38   put the descriptions on the homepage if you want to find something new take a

00:43:42   look at what interests you episode wise like what topics are talking about and

00:43:46   just press play just hit the link and go press play you can listen to them on the

00:43:50   website if you want or you can go to our app you can download our app from the

00:43:53   the iTunes store and it's the same. We've got the descriptions right there and you can

00:43:57   just press play and just try some stuff.

00:44:00   Yeah, and we're working on ways on the website to make it kind of easier to explore things

00:44:09   so I would say keep your eyes open for that. One thing we're talking about is if you're

00:44:15   listening to Connected, having a way to surface other shows kind of about similar topics and

00:44:20   And so we're thinking and working on some ways

00:44:22   to kind of make that easier.

00:44:24   And I would add that iTunes reviews are a good tool as well.

00:44:27   If you're interested in a show,

00:44:28   see what people on iTunes have to say.

00:44:31   If you listen to some shows,

00:44:33   this will be my every once in a while plug

00:44:36   to go review them on iTunes.

00:44:37   It takes a couple of minutes. - Yeah, we never ask.

00:44:38   - And it really is helpful.

00:44:39   - We never ask. - Yeah.

00:44:40   - Go and review your favorite Relay FM shows on iTunes.

00:44:42   It actually does help.

00:44:44   It helps people find the shows.

00:44:46   - It totally does.

00:44:48   So yeah, so there's a bunch of good ways.

00:44:49   And you can always ask recommendations, you know,

00:44:51   if you are interested, ask us on Twitter or email us

00:44:55   and maybe we can point you in the right direction.

00:44:58   - Friend of the show Jonas asked,

00:45:00   do you have a dream guest or host for your shows?

00:45:04   And I will just throw out to people

00:45:05   that I am very interested in.

00:45:08   Casey Neistat, who we already spoke about,

00:45:10   and MKBHD, they're white whales.

00:45:13   I don't think anything will,

00:45:15   actually I know nothing will ever come of that,

00:45:17   but a man can dream.

00:45:18   What about Casey Liss? That guy, right? Yeah, he'd be a good one. He would be great. We

00:45:24   should send him an email. I think he'd be really good.

00:45:28   Kathy asks, "What has been the most exciting surprise that came out this year that you

00:45:32   no longer have to keep hitting?" You should say it first, because I agree with

00:45:36   yours, but I could drill down a little bit. I would say RelayCon in San Francisco. We

00:45:44   We worked very hard on that for a very long time.

00:45:47   - Close to a year.

00:45:48   - Yeah, and it was like, I was on phone calls

00:45:51   with people in San Francisco, like multiple times a week

00:45:53   at one point, and it was a lot of work.

00:45:55   - And it was expensive, and we had no idea

00:45:57   if we were gonna make the money back.

00:45:59   - It was super expensive.

00:46:01   And we put the tickets up for sale,

00:46:05   and we sold out and had a huge waiting list,

00:46:07   and it was just the most amazing feeling I've had

00:46:11   of seeing something that we worked so hard on

00:46:13   successful so so I agree like that like the relay con thing was great and

00:46:17   announcing really commas awesome but we had like layers like relay con was a

00:46:21   light a tiered level of surprise event and when we when I introduced gray onto

00:46:28   stage that was pretty awesome I think anybody I mean people could have maybe

00:46:32   guessed that we would do a live event one day I don't think anybody would have

00:46:37   guessed that we would have been able to convince gray to come out for it right

00:46:41   So that was really awesome. I have no idea what RelayCon will look like next year.

00:46:48   Somebody asked me this the other day and I was like, "Nope, I have no idea."

00:46:52   So we've got some time to think about that. I have none. I have zero ideas.

00:46:58   If you have ideas, please give me them. I need them.

00:47:02   Alright, we have a bunch more questions. As well, if you're in the chat room and you have any questions,

00:47:07   please send them in whilst maybe Steven can look at some of those.

00:47:11   I'll take a moment to thank our friends over at MailRoute for supporting this week's episode.

00:47:17   You know who should handle your email security and delivery.

00:47:20   People who do only that. People you can trust.

00:47:23   Someone like MailRoute.

00:47:26   All the big companies that have been handling email protection are bowing out.

00:47:30   Because frankly, it's a really hard job.

00:47:33   Postini went away.

00:47:34   McAfee and MX Logic have just decided they're not going to do it anymore. Even Google have said

00:47:39   that they would prefer it if you use a gateway service like MailRoute so they don't have to

00:47:44   filter your Google Apps email anymore. So who can you trust to do the job properly and still

00:47:51   be around MailRoute? The company that has been focused entirely on email security since 1997.

00:48:00   Kids, that's a long time. MailRoute protects your email and hardware against spam,

00:48:06   viruses and other threats, and they deliver your mail even when your mail server cannot.

00:48:11   That is a thing called mail bagging. There's no hardware or software to install. If you own your

00:48:17   domain, that's all you need to use MailRoute. Their interface is easy to navigate and loaded

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00:48:34   handles customers of all sizes. They can take care of you and provide the same level of outstanding

00:48:40   support to everyone. MailRoute protects your email from spam and viruses and guarantees mail access

00:48:46   during outages. That's it. That's all they do and frankly they do it better than anybody else.

00:48:53   Stop spam today, sign up for a 30 day trial at mailroute.net/connected

00:48:59   and because you're a listener of this show, you'll get 10% off for the lifetime of your account.

00:49:04   Thank you so much to MailRoute for their continued support of this show and Relay FM

00:49:09   and for letting me say mail bagging as much as I like.

00:49:12   [whispers] Mail bagging.

00:49:13   Mail bagging is the best word. It is the best word.

00:49:17   Brendan asked, "When will you make an official Relay FM subreddit?"

00:49:22   - So we do hold R/Relay FM, but at this point we really can't manage another social platform.

00:49:33   For a while we had like an IFTTTTTT putting new episodes in there, but we didn't feel

00:49:41   like that was the right way to handle it and there's not really bandwidth to manage it

00:49:45   at this point, so I get like the one time I'm logging into Reddit there's always people

00:49:50   trying to get into it.

00:49:51   I understand that, we will do something, but we haven't really found what the right answer

00:49:56   is yet.

00:49:57   So I'm kind of just holding it.

00:49:59   Maybe that's not good reticut, but too bad.

00:50:01   I've never heard that word before, is that a thing?

00:50:04   It is an r/apple which is run by some of the most iron-fisted mods.

00:50:10   Reticut.

00:50:11   Okay.

00:50:12   Reticut.

00:50:13   Yeah, it's...

00:50:16   To really do it well, it takes you being in there?

00:50:20   Right, and that's a lie would want like the host to be in there, right?

00:50:25   Like so someone's talking about the pin ad when Brad to be there and like we just can't promise that so so we don't do

00:50:29   It it's the same reason why we don't have something like a slack. It's

00:50:32   It's asking a lot from a moderation perspective and it's asking a lot

00:50:36   For all of our hosts to be actively involved. We have a lot of people. Yep

00:50:42   Ed wants to know what's your favorite episode of a relay show that you were not on?

00:50:48   on?

00:50:49   Hmm. I would probably say almost anything Free Agents. I know it's not maybe like the

00:50:57   most fun and exciting. It's definitely not as funny as your choice. But I love Free Agents

00:51:05   and I love what they talk about. So I really wish I was part of that show. What about you?

00:51:10   So one of my favorite Real AFM shows is Top 4 because Top 4 is unlike any show I listen

00:51:20   to and my favorite thing about Top 4 is the continued layering of new and exciting experimental

00:51:31   things that the armettes decide to do.

00:51:34   It feels like they just continue to get more and more, I can't think of the word, like

00:51:39   ambitious and one of my favorite episodes of this was the pizza toppings episode because

00:51:46   not only did they get all of the pizza and eat it, they then went to interview their

00:51:50   local pizza guy to talk about the pizza. This was just a really funny and well put together

00:51:57   episode. So I would say top four episode 14 pizza toppings.

00:52:02   It's good. It's good. It's a good choice.

00:52:06   Brian asks, "What weird merchandise have you considered putting on sale?"

00:52:12   So I want to sell everything. I want to do mugs, I want to do hats, I want to do patches,

00:52:19   I want to do badges, I want to do like wall decals, I want to do everything. I want to

00:52:24   sell everything. But, logistics are horrific.

00:52:29   are and merchandise is expensive to do it right.

00:52:35   Markintosh in the chat room asked, you know, have you thought about putting relay graphics

00:52:38   on something like cafe press so people can kind of apply it to different things?

00:52:42   We have a problem with this, which is a problem that both me and Steven have, which is caring

00:52:49   maybe a little bit too much about quality.

00:52:51   Yes.

00:52:52   And so two things.

00:52:55   One, some sites, I won't say who, don't do that good of a job.

00:52:58   so we don't want our stuff to be on it.

00:53:00   But two, our logo has transparency in it,

00:53:03   which makes it extremely difficult to print

00:53:06   and to screen onto things.

00:53:07   So we have, if you're gonna have t-shirts,

00:53:09   we have an alternative version.

00:53:10   - And also our show artwork is complex.

00:53:14   - Yeah, it's super complicated.

00:53:15   So when we put something out, we have to work

00:53:17   like directly with whoever's printing it most of the time.

00:53:20   The current relay shirts are a much simpler version,

00:53:23   so we could print them.

00:53:26   And it's just hard, and it's a lot of money to put up front,

00:53:30   and it takes a lot of time to make that money back.

00:53:32   And it's just something that, like, we have a store,

00:53:35   like we'll put a link in the show notes.

00:53:36   We actually have a sale right now, if you're listening.

00:53:40   - What's the coupon code?

00:53:41   - I'm looking it up, give me a second.

00:53:43   - Yep, who knows, right?

00:53:44   Who would know that?

00:53:44   Nobody.

00:53:45   - I would know that.

00:53:46   - Yep.

00:53:47   - I just have to find it.

00:53:48   - I'm just vamping for you right now while you find it.

00:53:50   - Tell some jokes.

00:53:51   Relay 16.

00:53:54   Relay 16 is the current 16% off everything in the store.

00:53:57   - So we currently have the new logo shirt, the longer one.

00:54:00   We have a limited supply of the old logo shirt.

00:54:03   We have the Relay FM stickers and we have the badges

00:54:07   and we also have the artwork sticker,

00:54:09   which I loved so much the design.

00:54:11   I got it tattooed on my body.

00:54:14   And it's the same size.

00:54:15   So if you wanna pretend to be me,

00:54:17   you can buy the sticker and stick it on your arm.

00:54:20   - Yep.

00:54:21   The pins, the buttons are really underrated.

00:54:23   They're super nice. - Pens.

00:54:24   Yeah, just so you know, it sounds like he says pens

00:54:26   when he says that.

00:54:27   We aren't selling pens.

00:54:29   Oh, that's another thing.

00:54:30   I wanna sell pens. - Pens.

00:54:31   I know.

00:54:32   - I wanna sell pens real bad.

00:54:34   That's one thing that we might do one day.

00:54:38   Out of everything, that's one thing we might do.

00:54:40   - Yeah, so it's, yeah, good question about merchandise.

00:54:44   Yeah, it's a complicated world.

00:54:47   - Yeah, I really wish we could do more of it

00:54:49   because I love it.

00:54:50   Like I like to own things with our logos and artwork on them.

00:54:54   It's one of the reasons why we do

00:54:56   an obscene amount of t-shirts.

00:54:57   I like to have this stuff,

00:55:01   but it's really hard to do more than t-shirts, honestly.

00:55:04   - Yeah, it is.

00:55:07   Kate asks, and I love this question,

00:55:11   since you quit your jobs, how has it been different

00:55:13   from what you were expecting?

00:55:15   This is the exact topic of the talk I gave

00:55:19   release notes back in September and I will share that talk when they get it

00:55:24   posted and basically for me like it's been super rewarding professionally but

00:55:30   personally a lot harder than I expected. For me it's really hard to find a

00:55:34   healthy work-life balance. I had a lot of like pre-conceived notions of what it

00:55:41   would be like that just aren't true or at least aren't true by default. Like you

00:55:47   You can work for them.

00:55:48   It's just things like seeing your family more,

00:55:50   things like having greater financial freedom,

00:55:53   things like having greater flexibility and hours.

00:55:56   All that is possible, but you have to really work for it.

00:55:59   It's not given to you the second you walk out

00:56:03   of your day job.

00:56:04   And so for me, my first year has really been,

00:56:08   or was really adjusting to that and trying to put things

00:56:12   in place so I can have better work-life balance

00:56:14   in these things.

00:56:15   And so far those things are working really well,

00:56:17   there's more to do.

00:56:19   But for me it's just like it's not a cakewalk.

00:56:21   And I thought that there would be some things

00:56:23   that would be easier than they were.

00:56:25   But definitely still worth it.

00:56:27   Definitely super rewarding professionally.

00:56:29   And really wouldn't be the company it is today

00:56:32   without both of us in it full time.

00:56:34   So, it's a good question.

00:56:37   What about you, Myke?

00:56:38   - So I've been thinking about this,

00:56:40   and one of the things for me was I did it so quickly,

00:56:44   didn't really spend a lot of time thinking about it practically. All I had

00:56:49   was dreams, like the dream scenario, and that is what it is. The dream scenario

00:56:54   is that I don't have a job that makes me sad anymore and I get to do what I love.

00:57:01   Like that's kind of it and that's it, so I'm happy with that.

00:57:06   Then there are things that just change, just things that

00:57:11   just change as time goes on. And one of the things for me was just like

00:57:17   realizing, recently realizing that I didn't have a creative side project

00:57:23   which was weird and then I you know it was like oh but now I do my creative

00:57:27   side projects as my job which is podcasting so that's why I started the

00:57:31   YouTube thing so it just helps me have another creative outlet. That was

00:57:36   that was a funny thing realizing that like when your side project becomes your

00:57:39   job, people that had side projects before still need a side project. And I didn't

00:57:45   expect that but funnily enough I still need that side project outlet to

00:57:50   help me with the other stuff.

00:57:54   Yeah I think that's good.

00:57:59   Neil asked if you could go back in time to when you were starting Relay, what advice

00:58:04   would you give yourself or what would you do differently?

00:58:09   - I would say, it's very much related to my answer

00:58:14   a second ago, that you need to give it time

00:58:21   and you need to trust your decision making.

00:58:25   So I think I'm like this more than you are maybe,

00:58:29   where I will second guess things or I'll come back

00:58:32   to a decision that we made and question it again.

00:58:34   And that is a healthy thing to do to a degree,

00:58:38   Sometimes I turn into this ball of anxiety over it.

00:58:42   And what I've had to learn is that we set up processes,

00:58:46   we've set up things in our business,

00:58:47   and that they work really well.

00:58:49   They're efficient, they are clear, they are easy to manage,

00:58:54   and if something is working, I need to trust that

00:58:58   and let it do its thing, let the process,

00:59:02   let the job take care of itself and focus in other areas.

00:59:06   And so that's something that I've really had to learn.

00:59:07   is something that I would definitely have told myself two years ago, two and a half

00:59:11   years ago, you know, hey, once you make a decision and you move forward from it and

00:59:15   it's working, then, um, let it do its thing. So I think for me, uh, things feel good right

00:59:25   now. Um, the business is good that things are trending up with, with doing well. So

00:59:32   I wouldn't do anything differently because anything that I've considered a mistake we've

00:59:37   made mistakes, we've done things that we wouldn't do again, but we can only know about those

00:59:43   and get to where we are because it happened. Right? It's the butterfly effect type thing.

00:59:48   If we didn't, if we went back and if I said to people, "Don't sign that contract!" You

00:59:52   know, then maybe we wouldn't be where we are right now. So, I think it's all for the best.

00:59:59   All right, and our last question is from Stuart. Stuart asks, "What was it like when you first

01:00:07   reached out to somebody besides the two of us for a show or accepted somebody like what

01:00:14   was it can we give any kind of examples of that kind of feeling so I think that mostly

01:00:23   you know it's similar to like the answer to the question earlier about how shows are made

01:00:27   most of the time people contact us as opposed to us contacting people you know and then

01:00:34   we talk about shows together. And I think the two that stand out for me the most would

01:00:41   be Jason Snell, because Jason took a chance on us incredibly early. We had been around

01:00:49   for like a month when Jason contacted about upgrading clockwise. So that was a huge validation

01:00:56   for us at that point when somebody with the reputation like Jason would come and say,

01:01:02   I want to work with you guys on part of my new self-employed business.

01:01:08   That was huge.

01:01:10   And then when Merlin Mann and John Siracusa came to us to say that they wanted to do a

01:01:14   show together and they wanted it to be on relay, that was kind of like a dream come

01:01:18   true moment, I think.

01:01:20   Totally.

01:01:21   Totally agree.

01:01:22   And it's, you know, it's fun.

01:01:26   I mean, they're sort of like the well-known examples, but for me, like, any time somebody

01:01:31   wants to do something with us, I find it humbling that they want to have Relay be the home for

01:01:37   their thing. And we have to turn down a lot of people, we have to turn down a lot of pitches,

01:01:40   but in those conversations, that's always something I try to say of like, you know,

01:01:45   thank you for considering what we've built a good place for your project to be. So I

01:01:50   find it amazing and humbling and it's a really been a fun adventure to get to know a bunch

01:01:57   of people. I mean not only people like Jason and Merlin who John who people know but bringing

01:02:03   new voices into the industry you know helping people develop their first shows. All of that

01:02:09   is great. All of that is fun. All of that is challenging and it's something that doesn't

01:02:15   get old for me. No. And I guess if we're looking at 2017 what are we going to do? Who knows?

01:02:23   But we actually have some ideas and some things we're working through right now and I think

01:02:28   they're very exciting and if you go back and listen to our Q&A that we did in August for

01:02:35   our birthday, we spoke about...

01:02:37   Yeah, well you spoke.

01:02:38   I was super sick.

01:02:39   Yeah, you were super sick.

01:02:41   You were just nodding.

01:02:43   We spoke about diversity of people and diversity of topics.

01:02:48   I think we've shown that so far, some of the shows that we've had launched since then,

01:02:54   that we are moving more towards that and for the projects that we are very early in discussing,

01:03:01   that continues to be a key driving factor.

01:03:04   Relay FM is a technology focused network but I think something that you coined which I

01:03:10   really like is that we are moving towards a world of being technology adjacent as well

01:03:16   as focused which I really like that so we're going to keep moving towards there and we're

01:03:20   going to keep trying to unearth new people and working with people that you may know

01:03:25   to make great shows so that's kind of where we are that's where we're going.

01:03:29   Sounds good let's do it. So thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of Connected.

01:03:36   Next week we should be back to normal who knows Federico is out there in the ether he's fine

01:03:45   He just, him and Steven just had a really bad falling out.

01:03:48   So hopefully we can, I can build bridges, amend relationships before next week's episode.

01:03:57   We'll have to wait and see.

01:03:58   If you want to find our show notes, go to relay.fm/connected/119.

01:04:03   You can find Federico online at Vittici, V-I-T-I-C-C-I.

01:04:07   You can tweet at him and say "forgive Steven".

01:04:11   The more people that tweet to Federico and say forgive Steven, the more likelihood we

01:04:17   will have of getting the gang back together next week to create another episode of the

01:04:25   world's greatest podcast.

01:04:28   You can find Steven online.

01:04:30   He is at ISMH on Twitter and he's at firetotopixels.net Federico is also at maxsories.net.

01:04:35   I am at iMyke, I am YKE.

01:04:38   Thanks again to Footcardigan, Away and Mail Route for supporting this week's show.

01:04:42   Thank you all for listening, thank you to everybody that answered the questions.

01:04:45   We'll be back next time.

01:04:46   Until then, say goodbye Steven.

01:04:47   Adios.

01:04:47   Adios!