118: Master Transclusion Table


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:06   From relay FM, this is Connected episode 118.

00:00:10   Today's show is brought to you by Smile, Mac Weldon and Hover.

00:00:14   My name is Myke Hurley. I am joined by Federico Vittucci. Ciao Federico.

00:00:19   Ciao Myke.

00:00:19   Do you remember that time when your ISP caught on fire?

00:00:23   I do actually. I do remember.

00:00:26   So that fire never truly went out and it's uh it's just spread east I think.

00:00:31   What's uh what's what's the sign there's a there's a light that never goes out?

00:00:35   Yeah there's a fire that never goes out at an ISP.

00:00:38   And that that fire has spread over somewhere uh in southern America and it has affected

00:00:50   Comcast I think. That is why Steven is not here today.

00:00:53   I wish I had a good thing to say for when Steven misses the show, like how you two do with me,

00:00:59   where you proclaim me as very dead. You think that's a good thing,

00:01:04   so you think when we say that. No, it's not a good thing, so I wish I had something in return,

00:01:10   but I don't. Like a comeback, you don't have a comeback for that. Last week I was sitting

00:01:16   listening to the show live, as you two were recording, whilst I was sitting in my new flat

00:01:21   while a boiler was being replaced. How did it feel? It was horrible because as I was listening to the

00:01:28   show it was at that moment that the plumber came in to tell me that it wasn't just a pipe that

00:01:33   needed replacing but it was the entire water heater. You did feel like you were dying. It felt

00:01:40   like that for a little bit. My bank account is thoroughly dead right now. It was a metaphor for

00:01:47   your wallet. It's a very very very good metaphor. Talking about metaphors for

00:01:53   wallets and no money etc etc, Steven bought the Apple coffee table book and

00:01:58   he produced a lovely little video, something that only he could do, which

00:02:03   was to show off the book alongside the actual hardware that he owns and when

00:02:10   you see it in this context, I mean obviously he didn't show every page but

00:02:13   you just see the incredible amount of stuff that he has accumulated over the last couple

00:02:19   of years. It really is quite frightening.

00:02:21   Yeah, so you know the movie Jumanji. It's like Jumanji for Apple nerds. You just open

00:02:28   the book and all products come out.

00:02:30   That's what that book is in his house. Every time he opens it there's a stampede of IMAX.

00:02:38   I mean he has 13 so it's quite literal at this point.

00:02:43   That's a really unlucky number. Oh man. It's a nice video. I like the Apple socks part

00:02:49   when he opens it and all the socks are all stuck in the book. Apple should have actually

00:02:52   done that I think. They should have just put a selection of Apple socks, the iPod socks

00:02:58   in the book for you to just peel off and use to your heart's content.

00:03:02   I'm not sure that's a good idea. Buy a book with the socks inside?

00:03:06   Is the book a good idea?

00:03:09   I don't know.

00:03:10   Are you going to buy it? Are you interested in buying it?

00:03:12   I don't have enough space. I'm already full of stuff, right?

00:03:16   All of these home accessories and iPads and consoles,

00:03:20   I mean, only to convince my girlfriend

00:03:22   that the PSVR was a good idea.

00:03:24   I needed to do some serious cable management

00:03:26   to hide that mess, you know, from her field of vision.

00:03:30   - I have not gotten that down yet.

00:03:31   - I feel like if I buy this book,

00:03:33   because when I got the iconic book a few years ago,

00:03:37   it took a lot of convincing to say,

00:03:39   look, this is a good idea because it's a great product.

00:03:42   And I feel like the Apple book is even bigger, especially if you get the big version.

00:03:45   And I live in a small apartment and I don't have that kind of space.

00:03:48   Steven has a museum, so it makes sense for Steven.

00:03:51   That's true.

00:03:51   I just, you know, I cannot afford that.

00:03:54   It is a little known, but Steven actually lives in a mansion house.

00:03:59   And he has a whole wing of his home,

00:04:02   a vast, vast wing of his home dedicated to displaying his Apple products.

00:04:07   It really is quite impressive.

00:04:08   Yeah. Yeah. I mean, his family members pay a ticket to go inside.

00:04:12   So, you know, it's serious.

00:04:13   - It's legit.

00:04:14   It's legit.

00:04:16   - It's a whole enterprise.

00:04:17   - It's a whole big thing.

00:04:18   That's what he does.

00:04:18   That's what he does.

00:04:19   He doesn't actually do anything for Relay FM.

00:04:21   He just manages his museum.

00:04:23   It's all a front, you know?

00:04:24   - Yeah, his brother does the podcast actually.

00:04:27   It's not Steven.

00:04:27   (laughing)

00:04:29   - Nobody's seen Steven in 10 years.

00:04:32   He's been curating the museum.

00:04:34   The whole thing is a lie.

00:04:35   I have to say, as time has gone on,

00:04:38   I've decided that I do want to own this book.

00:04:41   But I don't think I'm going to buy it. I think I might put it on the list.

00:04:46   You're going to steal it?

00:04:47   Yes, I'm going to run it to the store and just pick up the ones. They don't care about

00:04:51   anything anymore.

00:04:52   Good luck.

00:04:53   You know, because in the new stores they have that thing, right, where you can just pick

00:04:55   up and walk away with stuff. But when you leave the store, the phone locks down. So

00:04:59   like, what happens to the book? Does like all the ink run out of it? Like what happens

00:05:02   to the ink?

00:05:03   There's just going to be some guy with a gun chasing you.

00:05:05   - Oh man, that's only a book.

00:05:07   I've got to put it on my Christmas list on my birthday list

00:05:12   and somebody might get it for me.

00:05:14   But it's something that I want to own.

00:05:16   I have grand dreams here of putting it on my coffee table

00:05:20   in my new apartment, you know?

00:05:22   It's like, look, this is how artistic I am.

00:05:25   I have just a pure white book.

00:05:28   - Look at this beautiful product.

00:05:29   This is how I make money.

00:05:30   I talk about the things in this book.

00:05:32   - Exactly, I just open it up to a page

00:05:34   and as people come in and out of the home, I can explain to them the intricacies of the

00:05:40   antenna bands on this iPhone compared to the other one.

00:05:43   I make a living talking about the iPod socks, that's what I do.

00:05:47   We talk about them an awful lot though, so kind of, yes we have.

00:05:51   It's kind of accurate.

00:05:52   Talking about soft products created by technology companies.

00:05:56   Did you just say soft?

00:05:58   Yeah.

00:05:59   Okay.

00:06:00   The Google Daydream arrived.

00:06:01   Oh yeah, it is soft.

00:06:02   It is very soft.

00:06:03   pajamas for your face it is like pajamas for the face that's exactly because also

00:06:07   when you put it on you go into a wonderful dreamland oh man like yeah

00:06:13   what's that you're you're making a really bad pun about the name of this

00:06:17   product no no I was going for the idea of the pajamas thing okay right so when

00:06:23   you when you put oh man daydream daydream and pajamas actually makes a

00:06:27   dream pajamas you know you do have a point I'm sorry it's okay it all goes

00:06:32   together eventually. So my daydream arrived unexpectedly a few days ago. I knew it was

00:06:38   like on the way but I didn't have any tracking information. But it's here now and the hardware

00:06:44   is really really nice. I actually can appreciate the route that Google took to make this a

00:06:50   soft feeling product and that makes it very comfortable actually. It fits very nicely

00:06:56   with my glasses on. You're able to pull the front part out so it can be cleaned. It's

00:07:01   It's all very nice, it looks good, it's well made.

00:07:04   I think this is definitely continuing along the trend that Google started with the Pixel

00:07:09   of making good hardware.

00:07:12   This is good hardware.

00:07:13   The little remote that it comes with is awesome.

00:07:16   It's like a little Wiimote and you just move it around, but it adds something more to phone

00:07:22   VR.

00:07:24   A lot of phone VR stuff, you're kind of just moving around and tapping the headset.

00:07:29   The one time I played the Gear VR that was what I was doing.

00:07:32   You just moved your head around and tapped the headset which didn't really work so much

00:07:35   for me.

00:07:36   And all of the good VR platforms, the serious VR platforms, they have their own controllers

00:07:39   and their own systems like that.

00:07:41   So creating this little controller is really nice.

00:07:42   And the way that you store it, you store it inside the headset which is really cool too.

00:07:46   So they're always together, it's got a little piece of elastic that holds it in and then

00:07:49   you just close the headset and it's all together in one little piece.

00:07:54   The thing that I find the most interesting and compelling about this whole thing is that

00:07:58   now I have a package of VR that could be used anywhere.

00:08:04   Now that's what's really interesting to me.

00:08:06   So you know, let's just say that I was a person who used my Pixel all day every day, right?

00:08:13   Like that I was a full time user of that, it was my full time phone.

00:08:16   I could just throw this thing in a bag when I'm traveling or whatever and if I'm on a

00:08:20   long journey I could just pull it out, strap it on my face and play some games or watch

00:08:24   some YouTube videos or whatever, right?

00:08:26   That's kind of the idea of this.

00:08:28   Let's set aside for a moment the awkwardness of that,

00:08:30   'cause I wanna talk about that in a moment.

00:08:32   But that's what's good about this,

00:08:34   is I have this little package, it's not very big.

00:08:37   It isn't very big.

00:08:38   I mean, you know, it's big enough, but it's not huge.

00:08:40   It's just about the right kind of size,

00:08:43   throwing this kind of thing in your bag

00:08:45   when you're going on a long trip and you'd be fine with it.

00:08:48   Now, one thing that I was interested about

00:08:52   is wondering if the quality of the screen

00:08:53   would be good enough, and it is vastly good enough.

00:08:56   Like the resolution of it looks much better than the PSVR does.

00:09:00   Because these screens are incredible.

00:09:05   You know, look at what's in these phones these days.

00:09:08   Like I can't see the pixels at all in this thing.

00:09:10   And you know, you can in the PSVR.

00:09:13   There are some games where like you can see the resolution isn't that great.

00:09:16   Right. But on this thing, that's not the case.

00:09:18   And the reason is, is because the phone is like 600, 700, 800 pounds.

00:09:23   Right. It is incredibly advanced hardware.

00:09:26   and you're paying for a lot more with the PSVR, right?

00:09:29   Like it's not just the screen, it's the whole thing.

00:09:31   And understandably that's more expensive right now.

00:09:34   But if you think about the previous Oculus devices,

00:09:38   I don't know off the top of my head what it is now,

00:09:41   but they were using the same screens

00:09:43   that Samsung phones were using, right?

00:09:46   - I think so, yeah. - They were.

00:09:48   I don't know if they still are,

00:09:50   but they were in all of the DK2s

00:09:52   and all of the development kits and stuff like that.

00:09:54   They were using phone screens.

00:09:55   And it's because they are incredibly high pixel density

00:10:00   right in front of your face.

00:10:01   Like it works perfectly for that.

00:10:03   However, the phone gets incredibly hot after use.

00:10:08   Like I played for-- - Do you feel it?

00:10:10   - Oh yeah, I played for like 25 minutes

00:10:13   and couldn't hold the phone comfortably.

00:10:15   - Oh wow.

00:10:15   - Yeah, it gets insane.

00:10:18   Because it is processing an incredible amount, right,

00:10:21   to do this.

00:10:22   Now, you know, I'm going to assume that it's okay

00:10:25   that Google have thoroughly tested all of this, but the phone gets really really hot

00:10:29   after playing for an extended, not even a massively extended period of time, but like

00:10:35   a good comfortable amount of time.

00:10:38   What kind of games have you played?

00:10:40   There aren't a lot right now. There is a handful of games and then there's some experiences.

00:10:46   I haven't done any of the experiences stuff, I've played some of the games. Some are good,

00:10:50   I found a couple that I did like. There's one called Arc Slinger which is a first person

00:10:58   shooter game but it's like a you are fixed in position and it's like a shooting gallery

00:11:02   type thing. It's like a Wild West game and you have to shoot people and it has something

00:11:07   that I really like. There are like power ups that you can do but to do the power ups you

00:11:12   have to do like fighting game style combinations on the touchpad so you know maybe to get the

00:11:18   the fire bullets you have to do up down left right left right up down up down and it's

00:11:22   really cool because like you're doing these like little combos to get the special power

00:11:26   up bullets because it's got the touchpad on the on the controller as well as the movement

00:11:30   stuff and what I really like about it just from a game design perspective the codes as

00:11:37   you call them for these combos they're written on the floor beneath you so you look down

00:11:40   and you follow them you look up and you can start shooting people so that's it's a really

00:11:43   fun game it's got good sound design I actually really like it there's another game called

00:11:48   danger goat as well that I liked which is your go yeah it's like an isometric

00:11:52   point-and-click type thing so yeah you're you're trying to get the goat

00:11:56   through this level it's like multiple levels that are set diorama style like

00:12:00   monument valley you know like just the floating levels in the sky and you have

00:12:03   to get it's like a puzzle game you know that you have to get the goat from point

00:12:07   a to point B it's nicely designed to go cartoon like animation and there are

00:12:13   like certain challenges and puzzles that you have to do to get them through the

00:12:16   I've noticed this from PSVR from a couple of games that I've played that kind of like the isometric point-and-click type stuff works really

00:12:22   Well because you can literally just point in the world. You can look around the world

00:12:25   Zach in the chat room asked about the the phone heating stuff if it takes a while for the phone to cool down

00:12:32   Because his is pretty quick. It doesn't take a long time for it to cool down

00:12:35   But it gets worryingly hot the first time, you know

00:12:39   like I am

00:12:39   Went to take off the headset and touch the edge of the phone and was like wow

00:12:44   Like, you know, I was I was surprised by it, you know, because the phone kind of clips into the headset

00:12:48   So I think all in all though. I am very impressed with this

00:12:52   I mean it kind of just leads into to my overall feelings about the pixel is that this is just top quality stuff

00:12:58   Right. Yeah for a phone based VR system. This is very compelling

00:13:04   Like I could imagine taking this thing. Like I said, I can't a plane with me. I could think it'd be great for that kind of use

00:13:11   But I feel I would feel silly doing it right now. Yeah, I was about to ask you would you do it?

00:13:16   I don't think I could not right now. And I think I think there will come a time in the not too distant future

00:13:22   Where we will do this type of stuff

00:13:25   You know, I I foresee an airline like Virgin or someone like that

00:13:31   Putting their in-flight entertainment into VR headsets

00:13:34   There has to there has to be some

00:13:38   social changes. There has to be an inflection point which we're not at

00:13:41   But once we get there

00:13:44   This is the type of hardware that you will want to use

00:13:46   Something that you can put your phone into and you can play games and you can watch YouTube 360 videos and stuff like that

00:13:53   But this hardware is good enough and the phone works well enough

00:13:58   That I continue to question Apple's

00:14:01   lack of any kind of visible strategy on VR

00:14:05   That it concerns me Federica might as well be happening internally. We don't know but I

00:14:11   Also, I was talking about this with Sylvia because a friend of ours asked us is there any sort of VR?

00:14:18   accessory that I can buy for the iPhone as a gift for Christmas and

00:14:22   We I had to explain, you know, what are the current VR options and how on the iPhone? There's basically nothing

00:14:30   Whereas if you get a Samsung, there's a Samsung Gear VR, if you get a Pixel there's the Daydream VR.

00:14:36   Yeah, Motorola I think just announced that their phones have been updated now to be Daydream ready.

00:14:41   Like that's starting to roll out more now.

00:14:43   Yeah, and it also concerns me, but it depends on whether VR is gonna be socially acceptable,

00:14:51   if it's gonna take off for games outside of people like you and me.

00:14:56   if it's gonna be something that everyone wants to have.

00:15:00   And when the time comes, will it be too late for Apple to join the race?

00:15:05   Traditionally, Apple has taken a wait-and-see approach,

00:15:09   and maybe it'll work this time as well,

00:15:12   because they've done it with the iPhone, with the iPad, with the Apple Watch, to an extent.

00:15:16   And maybe this time as well, if VR takes off, maybe they're working on it,

00:15:21   and when it's ready, when it's socially acceptable, when everyone is kind of in the market for VR,

00:15:26   they'll have a product. But based on what we know, based on the rumors, it sounds like Apple wants to

00:15:31   go a different direction, wants to try with AR, with glasses, you know, with a different type of experience.

00:15:36   So I don't know. Right now VR is expensive. Just by telling my friend, she asked me how much,

00:15:43   you know, what's the budget here, what kind of money do I need. And the prices of, you know,

00:15:48   PSVR or even the HTC Vive are crazy expensive for, you know, any kind of normal person who's not a,

00:15:55   hardcore video gamer. So right now we're still in the early stages.

00:16:00   Even the games are not full games, right? You cannot play

00:16:04   the real Final Fantasy XV for example or real Super Mario

00:16:07   on a VR device. It's a different type of game. It's not consumer...

00:16:11   I would say it's not consumer ready because of the prices, because of the

00:16:15   setup,

00:16:15   but I think it will be. I think it will be socially acceptable

00:16:19   and when the time comes will Apple be ready or

00:16:23   you know, we're in a state of flux when it comes to VR.

00:16:28   This is the start of the consumerization of it though, right?

00:16:31   Because everybody has a smartphone, and if your smartphone can support VR,

00:16:35   which will happen more and more as time goes on, right, maybe over the next 12 to 18 months

00:16:40   as more Android phones are released with this built into them,

00:16:43   this headset costs £69, you know, and it's probably, I think it's around that dollar wise,

00:16:49   maybe somewhere in the $60 to $90 range.

00:16:52   That is more than affordable for this type of experience.

00:16:57   And so I think that this is, this is what I'm saying, that this is clearly a route to

00:17:01   this.

00:17:02   This is a route, this is a path for consumer VR.

00:17:05   And Google have found it and they're working on that.

00:17:08   And they will be able to make more and more compelling products because they're beginning

00:17:11   now in VR's infancy.

00:17:15   And it's interesting to see, as I've said before, whether VR is going to be a thing

00:17:21   or not, that's kind of irrelevant to the point of the major technology companies, with the

00:17:28   exception of Apple, all believe that it will be.

00:17:31   So it's going to be pushed on us whether we like it or not.

00:17:34   Doesn't mean it will take off, but this is the next iteration, the next generation of

00:17:38   computing and experiences in gaming.

00:17:41   this is what Facebook and Google and Microsoft are betting on, that this is going to be a thing.

00:17:47   So they're going to keep making these products. So that might force it to become a thing.

00:17:51   But as of right now, Apple is absent from that.

00:17:54   I'm trying to think of examples in the past of technologies that seem to be a big deal

00:18:01   because everyone was doing them and Apple was not. And eventually, you know, kind of cooled off,

00:18:07   the hype and the anticipation and maybe it was a sound decision from Apple not to invest time

00:18:13   and marketing and everything into making those products. I'm trying to think of examples.

00:18:18   Netbooks?

00:18:19   Maybe. That could be. Maybe. Netbooks could be because it's for a while, for a couple of years

00:18:25   at least, it seems like everyone's doing netbooks and then Apple came up with the iPad. So maybe,

00:18:30   could be that right now everyone is doing VR and Apple will come up with something different,

00:18:35   related but different? I don't know. I do get your argument and if it really takes off in this current shape and form

00:18:42   it's gonna be more powerful, it's gonna be faster, it's gonna be cheaper,

00:18:46   but will it be the visor that you put on your head and shuts you off completely from what's around you, or will it be

00:18:53   some other thing like the HoloLens or like a mixed VR/AR together? I don't know.

00:19:02   It is interesting to... also because we're lucky we can afford it to try right now.

00:19:08   I think it... I'm interested in the smartphone VR. I don't want to buy a phone, like an Android phone, just for VR.

00:19:18   That's why I'm happy that I got the PlayStation VR. Because I'm having fun with it, and it's also fun to show it off to friends

00:19:23   who are not in the market for a PlayStation 4 and the VR accessory, which all together it's like almost a thousand euros.

00:19:30   which is crazy expensive, but I'm glad I did because it's showing me

00:19:35   what could be in the future one of the new standards when it comes to interaction and video games.

00:19:41   I'm still skeptical if this is going to take off in terms of non-game applications.

00:19:47   I can imagine the potential, I can imagine things like Skype or conference calls.

00:19:52   I think it's going to be an entertainment-focused platform for a long time.

00:19:57   Or an education platform, maybe.

00:19:59   Yeah, content. Consumption.

00:20:02   Right. Everyone is talking about the new Google Earth VR app on the HTC Vive, I think it came out last week.

00:20:11   Maybe it's also on the Oculus, I'm not sure.

00:20:13   And it's impressive, I watched the videos, you can fly around, you can look at stuff as if you're actually visiting Paris, for example.

00:20:20   That's impressive. But what's the, you know, am I picturing myself at home

00:20:27   and be like, "Okay, instead of relaxing on the couch with Facebook and Twitter, I'm just gonna put on the headset and go to Paris."

00:20:34   Maybe, maybe that could be the future, or maybe just a fun demo that you try once for like 15 minutes and that's about it.

00:20:41   Does it warrant having a presence in this market?

00:20:44   Because I truly don't believe that Apple cares about making their own games,

00:20:48   they do care about the developer community making games,

00:20:51   but I mean, we've seen with third-party controllers, even if you go simple, something as simple as a controller,

00:20:56   Apple doesn't really care about those.

00:20:58   The standard basically hasn't been updated there.

00:21:00   The MI5 controller for iOS hasn't been updated for like two years.

00:21:05   So when it comes to Apple and video games, I don't have a lot of hope.

00:21:07   When it comes to Apple and other types of applications, well maybe.

00:21:12   I could see, you know, Flyover and Apple Maps in VR.

00:21:15   That could be cool.

00:21:16   But doesn't work.

00:21:17   That's not enough.

00:21:18   Right?

00:21:19   Exactly.

00:21:20   What else could you do?

00:21:21   I don't know.

00:21:22   You can visually conceive the layers of iOS, you know?

00:21:26   Like Johnny Ive set out the layers of iOS 7, you can just like get all up in the layers,

00:21:31   go see where control center's hanging out, that kind of thing.

00:21:33   Yeah, you could be hanging out in the Johnny Ive VR experience, it's just a white room.

00:21:38   White room.

00:21:39   You look around, you think it's loading, you know?

00:21:42   It's actually, that is the VR experience.

00:21:45   It's all white.

00:21:46   It's the Ive simulator.

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00:22:58   I should.

00:22:59   Yeah.

00:23:00   the Snapchatification of Instagram continues. So Instagram just launched the ability to send

00:23:09   self-destructing DMs. It's kind of like an extension of Instagram stories, you can now send

00:23:16   an image or a video as a DM to someone and it will self-destruct after it's been viewed

00:23:23   and also you get a notification if the person on the other end takes a screenshot. So it's basically

00:23:28   Snapchat and they're also launching a live video which is not Snapchat but also kind

00:23:34   of like a, I don't know, kind of a rolling Facebook Live and Periscope into Instagram

00:23:39   I guess, which makes sense. I just wonder how much Snapchat and others are dictating

00:23:45   the evolution of Instagram at this point.

00:23:49   That's a good way of looking at it, right? Like, if Instagram is the daddy, right? I

00:23:55   I guess we assume, I think it's probably still safe to assume that they're top of the tree

00:24:00   when it comes to photo sharing, but Snapchat is probably close.

00:24:04   Like I imagine that they jockey it out.

00:24:07   What Instagram is doing right now is looking at who else is around and they are being bold

00:24:14   and brazen in the fact that they are not trying to disguise what they're doing.

00:24:19   I think usually with Silicon Valley companies, they all kind of copy each other and iterate

00:24:25   and that kind of thing.

00:24:26   Yeah, there's this new trend that I've seen of being very clear about what some company

00:24:34   is copying.

00:24:35   So like Instagram, when they launched stories, they were super honest about the fact that

00:24:40   Snapchat got there first.

00:24:42   And I saw last week the project management service, Asana, they...

00:24:47   They launched Trello-like things and said "Trello did a great job and now we're doing

00:24:52   it!"

00:24:53   I mean, okay!

00:24:54   I'm not sure, I mean, props for the attribution I guess, but I don't know how I feel about

00:25:01   a company coming out and saying "Look, we know that these other people did it first

00:25:05   and we're really thankful and by the way we're copying it."

00:25:09   I mean, okay, it's just, I don't know if being honest about it, I guess it's better than

00:25:14   not admitting, you know, when someone else did it before.

00:25:18   Anyway, what I've seen is, especially in the past year, we've talked about this before,

00:25:25   but the... just the... the acceptance and the popularity of Snapchat in Italy with my friends has truly taken off.

00:25:33   Now, everyone has it, at least everyone in my circle of friends.

00:25:36   And they're not necessarily, you know, I don't hang out with, like, teenagers anymore, like, 20-somethings.

00:25:43   Everyone has Snapchat and when we're hanging out together, we're, I don't know, at a party or, you know, out for drinks,

00:25:50   I see people using Snapchat, I see people taking pictures and saying, "Oh, follow me on Snapchat, you'll get these photos."

00:25:56   And I don't see Instagram as much. I see my friends checking Instagram.

00:26:03   I don't see them taking a lot of pictures as it used to be until a few years ago.

00:26:10   I think that there is a definite trend towards the ephemeral, right? That's why Instagram went for stories. I think people right now

00:26:18   Enjoy sharing their lives with their friends in this way that isn't so takes all this work because yes

00:26:26   We said before you know when Instagram launch stories

00:26:28   It's not about crafting the most perfect picture, right?

00:26:32   It's about just like sharing whatever's happening in your life

00:26:35   And that's what Instagram is moving towards because they can see that snapchat is owning that you're like

00:26:41   Instagram or maybe going a step further their live video function the video that you record

00:26:46   Cannot be saved or viewed later. You either catch it when it's live or you don't see it at all

00:26:52   so they're going like an extra step right like periscope and

00:26:55   Facebook live you can save the recordings or they're saved automatically for a certain period of time

00:27:01   But Instagram is trying to like bundle this in with the idea of like these two separate services that they run right they run the

00:27:08   It's there forever

00:27:10   Make your life look amazing get beautiful filters the photo stream stuff

00:27:15   right

00:27:16   like the actual what we know Instagram to be and now this whole other section of features like stories and live and the

00:27:22   DM system now, which is kind of just like just share random stuff

00:27:26   I think that it is a good move for them from a business perspective because it's kind of

00:27:32   keeping them relevant.

00:27:35   But I can't overlook the fact that they're kind of just like, they're just aping features

00:27:40   from other companies now in a very bold way.

00:27:44   They're just like, they just call it out.

00:27:46   And I don't know how I feel about that.

00:27:47   Like I can kind of respect the fact that they're being scrappy, right?

00:27:51   And they're just like, even though they're owned by Facebook, so they can kind of just

00:27:55   whatever, that they're deciding that they're going to keep trying to push, keep trying to grow,

00:27:59   keep trying to grow. I can appreciate that, but it's like this idea of just like, are you

00:28:06   innovating anymore? Because the reason that you're here in the first place is because you were a

00:28:13   company that did something that nobody had done before in the way that you did it. You created

00:28:17   this whole platform, this whole idea of filters. Again, they really popularized it. They were

00:28:25   There are apps like Hipstamatic which did it, but Instagram kind of really made it a

00:28:28   thing that you had this social network and all you did was share photos with people and

00:28:34   you'd like the photos.

00:28:35   And now there are many companies that try and do that in the way that they do it, but

00:28:39   now it just feels like they're not really contributing as much as they used to.

00:28:45   When you look at like, I am becoming increasingly obsessed with Snap's rollout of Spectacles.

00:28:54   I am just devouring news stories about it.

00:28:59   I think it is one of the most incredible product launches

00:29:03   of the last 10 years.

00:29:05   The way that they are just, you know,

00:29:07   you guys spoke about it,

00:29:08   like these vendor machines popping up

00:29:10   and they're creating these pop-up shops

00:29:12   and like no tech press are getting review units.

00:29:15   They have to fight to get them,

00:29:16   even though the reviews are universally good, right?

00:29:19   They're not hiding it.

00:29:20   They made a good product.

00:29:21   Like everything about the experience is fascinating

00:29:26   and I desperately want a pair to try

00:29:29   because I actually think that it really is

00:29:31   a very interesting product that looks good

00:29:34   and seems to work well.

00:29:36   And I just keep looking at that and I'm like,

00:29:38   that is an innovative company right there.

00:29:41   They are doing new things, but Instagram are not.

00:29:46   They are like bumbling along

00:29:47   and trying to catch up on features.

00:29:50   and it's just interesting to watch that happen.

00:29:52   - Yeah, I feel like we're moving on from,

00:29:55   you know, we used to say congrats for shipping,

00:29:59   now it's becoming, congrats for copying,

00:30:02   and it's becoming acceptable

00:30:03   without being sarcastic about it.

00:30:05   And I also believe that Snapchat

00:30:09   is truly doing some innovative stuff.

00:30:13   I have to say, I kinda wanna get the spectacles,

00:30:17   even though probably not gonna get those in Italy anytime soon.

00:30:21   That's a... I mean it's a simple idea, right? It's camera and sunglasses.

00:30:26   But it's a whole package, the whole idea of the experience combined with a Snapchat app on your phone.

00:30:32   Because I feel like many, many times when I'm out, when I'm around, and I want to share something,

00:30:42   I just don't have the timing or the patience to capture something and to say, to announce

00:30:49   myself, to say, "I'm about to take a Snapchat."

00:30:52   I just forget about it.

00:30:53   I'm just not in that mindset.

00:30:55   And I feel like having the spectacles, especially in the summertime with a good season when

00:30:59   you're walking out more often, going to the beach and stuff, I feel like that's a great

00:31:05   idea.

00:31:06   Yeah.

00:31:07   I think me and you are embedded in a certain way of social networking which doesn't fit

00:31:11   to Snapchat, because I think to myself, I'm going to post it, but I can't tell anyone

00:31:15   that I've done it.

00:31:16   When I post something on Instagram, I can just cross post it to Twitter.

00:31:22   So again, that's just the locked in thing of me, of assuming that everybody is looking

00:31:27   at my Twitter feed, and that I push things there.

00:31:31   I did a thing recently where I was taking Snapchat things, I can't even remember what

00:31:34   it was about, and I tweeted about it to tell people to go there, because in my mind, that's

00:31:39   That's the only way anybody ever finds out about anything.

00:31:42   I keep Snapchat on my home screen and I keep opening it and just poking around, but I never

00:31:48   feel like I know what to share.

00:31:50   And I agree with you, there's this thing in my brain that's like, maybe if I had the spectacles,

00:31:56   I would try and force myself into this idea of just like, all I have to do is press the

00:32:01   button and it will record what I'm doing.

00:32:04   I also think it would be really cool for vlogging.

00:32:07   I think it could be. Are you following DJ Khaled now on Snapchat?

00:32:14   I had to stop man.

00:32:15   No, why?

00:32:16   I couldn't do it, it was just too much stuff. I didn't understand any of it, I felt like an old man.

00:32:21   Have you learned the key to success?

00:32:23   No I haven't.

00:32:25   Oh man, you gotta follow.

00:32:28   I can't, I followed him for like a day and it was like here's a bunch of things that I don't know what he's talking about and there's like a million of them.

00:32:34   He's talking about the major key alert and the key to success and a bunch of life lessons.

00:32:39   Really important stuff.

00:32:40   Stuff I don't understand.

00:32:41   Yeah, top notch work from Khaled.

00:32:43   Talking about top notch work, Apple have released their holiday ad.

00:32:49   As with many companies now, Apple has a holiday themed ad they had.

00:32:53   Was it last year that they did the one with the kid making…?

00:32:56   No, it was three years ago.

00:32:58   Really?

00:32:59   Yeah, he won an Emmy Award.

00:33:02   That was a great one.

00:33:03   know what last year's was last year's one Stevie Wonder? I think Stevie Wonder was with

00:33:08   Andrew Aday the song was last year yeah I cannot remember 2014 because

00:33:14   Misunderstood was 2013 with the kid and you know the movie mmm-hmm last year was

00:33:19   Stevie Wonder and Andrew Aday and I cannot remember the year before. So Apple are

00:33:24   taking the line a lot of a lot of companies are I'm seeing this in the UK

00:33:29   I don't know if you've seen this in Italy.

00:33:32   From people that have spoken to online,

00:33:34   it doesn't really seem to be the trend in the US yet either.

00:33:37   But to make holiday season ads that do not push a product,

00:33:47   but have a story, like some kind of story to them,

00:33:52   which makes you feel positive things for the brand.

00:33:58   Do you have other examples?

00:33:59   - John Lewis is my biggest example.

00:34:02   In the UK, John Lewis really kind of pioneered this.

00:34:07   They are the ad that everybody waits to come

00:34:12   and then when it does, it's like, oh great,

00:34:15   the John Lewis Christmas ad is out now, right?

00:34:19   Like it is a big thing.

00:34:21   They have a thing this year called Bust of the Boxer.

00:34:23   It's like this whole thing, right?

00:34:26   Like they create these ads which focus on some fictional thing that they've created

00:34:31   and they are multi-million dollar things and it ties in with the store and they sell merchandise.

00:34:36   Like here is a big thing.

00:34:38   John Lewis is a huge department store.

00:34:39   Think of like Bloomingdale's or Macy's or something but it's a nationwide chain.

00:34:45   And this is their ad.

00:34:46   So for example, the John Lewis Christmas ad right now has 18 and a half million views

00:34:52   on YouTube and it was launched two weeks ago. It is a big thing here and now there are a

00:35:00   lot of companies, especially supermarkets and department stores that are creating these

00:35:04   types of ads. So they don't show products. They are just intended to give you warm, fuzzy

00:35:10   feelings which you impart put onto the brand. It's a very simple message. You know, like

00:35:17   Casey pointed out to me, like Coca-Cola are a good example of this, even though they show

00:35:20   people drinking coke in the ad, but like the red truck thing and the...

00:35:25   Yeah man, the coke ads always made me feel good as a kid.

00:35:29   They're like classic, this is like classic brand advertising but with a new twist and

00:35:34   the twist seems to be these days creating these stories and worlds and Apple this year

00:35:39   have really dived into this form of advertising because the previous ones... so like last

00:35:46   year's was just people singing a song and it was a beautiful song but like you know

00:35:49   misunderstood one, the one that everyone keeps talking about, the guy was using Apple products

00:35:52   to create a thing. But the tie-in of Apple in this new ad is so slight, like it may as well not even

00:35:59   be there. So the ad is Frankenstein's monster, played by Brad Garrett from Everybody Loves Raymond,

00:36:07   the guy with a really deep voice. He is singing a song which he's recording in voice memos.

00:36:14   That's one of the only two times you see an iPhone. He receives a package.

00:36:18   The true winner of this ad is Voice Memos. Voice Memos, the app that nobody knew existed.

00:36:22   So it goes in everybody's Apple folder. He receives a little package which are two little

00:36:29   light bulbs. He goes down to the town. Everybody is horrified to see Frankenstein's monster in the

00:36:36   town. And he puts the little lights in where his bolts go and they light up and he starts singing

00:36:43   a song and everybody rejects him but a child and the wonder of the child sings with the monster

00:36:47   and then everybody loves them, right? There is an idea of like, I don't know, that oh, he also,

00:36:52   he's playing the little song, he's playing the tune from his voice memos and singing along with it.

00:36:56   And it is intended, I assume, to be an ad which is to invoke the holiday spirit, right? Like that is

00:37:03   the idea that they want people to be together over the holidays and they have created a very expensive

00:37:10   with a star and clearly some very expensive make-up and sound effects, visual effects

00:37:18   to pull this whole thing together because they've had to create this guy that's taller than life, right?

00:37:22   Why do they do this, do you think Federico? What are Apple trying to get out of this?

00:37:27   I think it's not necessarily about the iPhone, it's more of... I see it as more of a statement about Apple as a company.

00:37:35   You know the message of the message of love each other, you know, we're even though we're different

00:37:40   We're all in this together. That's the idea that I get and you know

00:37:44   it's a very good timing for this ad especially because of the political scene at the moment and

00:37:49   And I feel like they're using the iPhone and voice memos just briefly to kind of identify the company

00:37:56   But then the message is at Apple we you know, they say this over and over we care about diversity

00:38:02   We care about all kinds of people and we want to make products for all kinds of people also.

00:38:07   And I feel like the ad itself is kind of weird initially because you're seeing this monster

00:38:14   and it stays weird until the moment that it screws the lightbulbs into his neck.

00:38:21   But then when you see the child, when you see the reaction, when you see the second

00:38:24   half, I mean I gotta say it brought a smile to my face, this commercial.

00:38:29   Which I totally get it, I'm smiling for a commercial.

00:38:32   There's a multi-billion dollar corporation making money off of this.

00:38:36   But it's still the idea, the genuine idea of, you know, it's the holiday season for

00:38:41   those who celebrate it, of course.

00:38:43   And it's a good moment to reflect upon the idea that we're different but we gotta love

00:38:48   and respect each other and accept each other.

00:38:51   And I think it's very smart, you know.

00:38:55   constantly bombarded with all these commercials about phones and computers

00:39:01   and it's you know with the holiday season with the end of the year

00:39:05   approaching I think it's a good message I know it's about a corporation it's

00:39:10   about a business that makes money makes billions of dollars and not all parts of

00:39:14   that business are as kind and warm and you know loving as this commercial but

00:39:20   it's a good ad and it makes me feel good it makes me feel good watching it I like

00:39:25   the story I like the the romantic idea that the ad tells. I agree with you like

00:39:35   I think that the ad is weird but it's not weird in a way that I think is

00:39:39   unpleasant it's weird just because why did they choose Frankenstein like

00:39:43   monster otherwise people are just gonna correct you you know it's not what I was

00:39:47   saying it every time right frankenstein's monster yeah people love to correct you on that um

00:39:52   i think that even it's it's just a strange route to take right like i i i can't imagine the meeting

00:40:00   in which that came up it's it's very abstract but that will make it memorable um i i find it

00:40:08   just a weird way to tell the story but the ad made me feel good which is exactly what it's supposed to

00:40:14   So I think that they've probably succeeded?

00:40:19   - I think so.

00:40:21   I mean, in an alternate universe,

00:40:23   maybe there's an ad with Tim Cook sitting behind the desk

00:40:27   and making a big political statement.

00:40:30   But in this universe, they're taking the more subtle,

00:40:34   warm fuzzy feeling approach of,

00:40:37   or showing you a monster who gets accepted by a child

00:40:41   and all kinds of people afterwards.

00:40:44   I think it's a good message, I think it's nice.

00:40:46   It puts up all in your mind, but on in the way of,

00:40:49   here's the latest iPhone, it takes a bunch of pictures

00:40:51   at super crazy resolution.

00:40:53   It's more of a feeling.

00:40:56   It's classy, that's what I'm gonna say.

00:40:58   Even in its weirdness and strangeness,

00:41:03   it is a classy, elegant ad.

00:41:05   - I agree.

00:41:08   Talking about classy and elegant,

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00:41:26   that is naturally anti-microbial, they have this whole line of silver underwear that eliminates

00:41:31   odour, it's cool science stuff that they have.

00:41:33   They have undershirts and stuff for that as well.

00:41:36   Mac Walden really is a company that believes in smart design, premium fabrics and simple

00:41:40   shopping and that comes across across their entire experience. It is so easy to

00:41:44   go to their website and buy stuff right like you know jumping through hoops and

00:41:47   what I like is that the more you buy the more you save they have like the savings

00:41:51   indicator across the top which I like as well but then when the products come to

00:41:54   you you're gonna feel good in them because they spent a lot of time making

00:41:57   them comfortable. Macworld and truly believe that you should be comfortable

00:42:00   in their products so that's why if you don't like them they will refund you and

00:42:05   you just keep the products because you know they just they don't they don't

00:42:08   want your underwear back basically. But Mac Walden are all about making sure that you

00:42:13   feel good every day whether you're going to work, going on dates or just for everyday

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00:42:34   Just go and try it out. Go buy something, see what you think. There's you know, if you

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00:42:56   Thank you so much to MacWeldon for their support of this show and Relay FM.

00:43:01   So do you want to talk about the Mac Pro?

00:43:03   Yeah man, let's talk about the existence of the Mac Pro.

00:43:06   So we had a hot tip come through to us this week, that in 2017 the Mac Pro is going to

00:43:14   be taking the shape of an iPad.

00:43:19   I wanted to see where you were going with that.

00:43:22   Good job.

00:43:23   I wasn't sure where I was going with it when I began.

00:43:26   What I want to talk about is the only Pro that truly matters, which is the iPad Pro.

00:43:30   Wow.

00:43:31   It's making it worse.

00:43:33   I figure, you know, go nuclear, you know, this is the hill that I'm willing to die on.

00:43:38   There was an analyst's rumor, as there many of them are.

00:43:41   Okay.

00:43:42   And you can take these things always of a grain of salt because who actually truly knows

00:43:46   if these people have any idea what they're talking about or if they're just making it

00:43:49   up.

00:43:50   But there was an analyst rumor that said there is likely coming in March a refresh to the

00:43:59   current line of 12.9, 9.7. Both will get True Tone, both will get speed bumps and other

00:44:05   hardware improvements that we would expect. However, after this, the 9.7" Pro will become

00:44:13   the lower cost iPad, most likely eliminating the air from the line. What it will be replaced

00:44:20   by is a new 10.9 inch screen iPad Pro. However, this device will have the same physical size

00:44:29   as the 9.7 inch iPad Pro. It will lose the bezels, make the screen larger. These are

00:44:36   rumors in line with what we're expecting to see in the iPhone in 2017. What do you think

00:44:43   of this?

00:44:45   I think we touched upon this with Steven. I think it...

00:44:50   I can imagine an iPad that is just a piece of glass that you hold in your hands.

00:44:55   And it's truly the highest point of the original vision of the iPad.

00:45:02   It is a piece of glass that you hold in your hands and it's just interface.

00:45:08   You're holding the interface. And I can see that happening.

00:45:11   However, I have a few questions about the practicality of that idea.

00:45:16   And the two most pressing questions, if you like, are what's going to happen with the bezels

00:45:21   when you hold the device, how is the interface going to react,

00:45:25   and what's going to happen with the home button,

00:45:27   how you're going to use Touch ID, how you're going to move in and out of apps.

00:45:33   The idea on paper sounds amazing, and even when we saw, you know,

00:45:37   Xiaomi making that phone a few weeks ago with no truly edge-to-edge display that was beautiful.

00:45:44   And I could imagine that vision applied to a bigger device, to an iPad. That would be

00:45:50   amazing. But I have some practical concerns that I'm sure Apple is thinking about, of

00:45:54   course. They have truly smart people making these decisions. Maybe it could be a preview

00:46:00   of the next iPhone with the Home button and Touch ID inside the display, with the speaker,

00:46:06   what on the iPhone you would call, you know, maybe speakers blending into the unit, I don't know.

00:46:14   Maybe there's a curved edge for this display, kind of like a Samsung.

00:46:20   I feel like it would be beautiful just to look at, I feel it would be comfortable, but I don't know practically,

00:46:30   Does it mean that Apple has basically finalized the implementation of the Home button inside the display?

00:46:37   Does it mean that Touch ID can now be available anywhere, not just at the bottom, on the side of the iPad?

00:46:43   That would be amazing.

00:46:44   I don't think that the Touch ID will find its way into the screen.

00:46:51   I'm skeptical of this, and the MacBook Pro, I think, shows where my skepticism is coming from.

00:46:59   I think that the touch bar was intended to include a touch ID sensor embedded in the

00:47:04   screen, but it wasn't able to be done.

00:47:06   Now, you know, I appreciate that you refresh on that because I know that you and Steven

00:47:10   spoke about this rumor specifically last week, but I wanted to kind of use this as a jumping

00:47:15   off point to talk about the current iPad Pro line and where me and you are sitting within

00:47:19   that right now.

00:47:21   So you've had time to, you know, we've made lots of jokes about this, right, about the

00:47:25   multi-pad lifestyle and if you have multiple iPads now that kind of thing like me but I

00:47:30   wondered like now that you've probably have more time to spend with them kind of where

00:47:34   you are feeling...

00:47:35   You're gonna be disappointed.

00:47:37   I know I feel like I understand it but I'm just trying to work out like where are you

00:47:41   feeling about the iPad like what one are you using the most do you ever use the the smaller

00:47:46   pro and if so what for?

00:47:48   So after the review of iOS 10 was done I gave my small iPad Pro to Sylvia she's been using

00:47:55   instead of her old iPad R2 she's been using the small Pro. So I've always used the big iPad Pro more.

00:48:03   And it is my main computer, the only reason I'm talking to you on my Mac is because I need to use Skype.

00:48:09   All in with the iPad Pro 12.9. I posted a story about the keyboard that I'm using, what I need to type, it's a Razer keyboard.

00:48:19   I love the iPad Pro, generally I never liked and appreciated a computer before.

00:48:26   I use it all the time.

00:48:29   I took this year, and this is part of a story that I'm working on, this is actually quite useful.

00:48:36   The past year I've done a lot of optimization for the things that I do.

00:48:43   with the Mac stories, with the Club Mac stories, I have a bunch more responsibilities, a lot more collaboration going on.

00:48:51   And so I took the past year with the iPad Pro to understand for each task that I do each week,

00:48:58   what is the best way that I can do it on the iPad? What is the best way that I can do it better than a Mac?

00:49:04   I've changed a lot of apps, I'm still considering a lot of apps, because my priority is to write, talk, and to spend as little time managing stuff as possible.

00:49:19   And I feel like I've found a pretty good workflow, a pretty good setup with my iPad Pro at this point.

00:49:27   It doesn't mean that it's perfect, there are some things that I would like to do, whether it's iOS itself or the iPad Pro hardware,

00:49:34   there are some things that need to be better.

00:49:36   But I feel like I have found the iPad and the device that truly satisfies my needs for computing.

00:49:44   computing, it's such an ugly word but I'm happy with my computer.

00:49:49   And in a way that maybe I wasn't in the past, I was constantly looking for maybe a different

00:49:56   Mac, maybe a different iPhone, I feel like the iPad Pro is just, it gets out of the way,

00:50:03   it's reliable, it's fast, and I truly want to see what Apple wants to do next, because

00:50:09   Because if you ask me right now, I have a hard time coming up with requests.

00:50:13   Because it, you know, it works.

00:50:17   So you're definitely in the camp, but the bigger is better though, right?

00:50:20   Oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah.

00:50:22   Well I mean, even when you use multitasking and split view, there's just no contest between the two.

00:50:29   I tried to get work done and I observed you, Myke, the way that you do stuff with the small

00:50:35   Pro with a small smart keyboard and I just cannot do it. It's just too small for me and

00:50:42   I get used to the big iPad Pro so much and the way that you see more content on the screen

00:50:48   when you're using the software keyboard and the comfort of split view on the 12.9 and

00:50:55   how much I see when I read at night or how big a movie is when I use my iPad Pro as a

00:51:02   That's just beautiful and and I cannot go back to the to the small form factor

00:51:07   Well, what about a 10.9 inch one? That's that's what I'm thinking about, right because

00:51:12   12.9 versus 12.9. It's not a lot, but I feel like the difference could still be

00:51:20   You know a considerable difference

00:51:22   maybe they're just I

00:51:25   just need to see it I because I

00:51:30   I'm skeptical about whether I want to go smaller even just a tiny bit, you know?

00:51:37   So I tell you why I'm very interested in a 10.9 inch because I think that the

00:51:43   9.7, the small Pro, the form factor is perfect and

00:51:48   I find that the form factor of the larger iPad Pro to not be perfect

00:51:53   because it's bigger and heavier and

00:51:56   more ungainly and less easy to move around.

00:51:59   But the 9.7 inch, it's great and I can put this big keyboard case on it and it's still really easy to move around.

00:52:05   But if I put the same big keyboard case on the bigger iPad Pro, I'd be carrying around a MacBook Pro basically.

00:52:12   Right, like I use the Logitech Create which is a vastly superior keyboard in absolutely every single way over what Apple have made.

00:52:18   and

00:52:21   That coupled with the 9.7 is incredible and I imagine a world where like let's just say I mean

00:52:27   I don't know this for sure

00:52:29   But let's just say that a 10.9 inch iPad screen allows you to do better split view

00:52:34   Right like that the the split view is more akin to what you see in the 12 9

00:52:38   I let's just say that the barrier is there right you get more on the screen

00:52:42   You're able to get like the two apps side by side as opposed to like one iPhone one regular iPad app

00:52:48   You know like that that to me. I think would really probably create the best of both worlds device

00:52:54   I'm looking for because I do continue to use both iPads

00:52:57   Frequently every day I use them for different tasks

00:53:01   When I'm out and about I always had the 9.7 with me because it's way better for traveling with

00:53:07   And I get the benefits of the great keyboard

00:53:10   But like this morning when I was doing the show notes for the show

00:53:13   I wanted the large screen of the 12.9 to get all of my notes side by side of Google Docs and Apple Notes

00:53:18   But if the 10.9 can provide me the best of both worlds

00:53:21   then

00:53:23   Maybe I maybe I would say goodbye to the multi-pad lifestyle

00:53:26   Yeah, I want to ask you

00:53:31   What do you want from a

00:53:35   Future iPad what is that you're missing and I'm not talking about iOS. I'm talking about the iPad hardware

00:53:42   I don't think that there's so much missing from the iPad hardware really.

00:53:47   Like if you bring them level with each other from a specs perspective, I'm good with what we've got,

00:53:54   right? Like the screens are so good, but I would love the larger one to have true tone.

00:53:59   I would like to see more advancement in input devices from the keyboard to the pencil to

00:54:08   other devices you can connect to the iPad Pro to make it more powerful, like expandability and stuff

00:54:13   like that. That's what I'm more interested in. Me and you firmly believe in this computer as a

00:54:19   replacement for computers as they currently exist, right? But the only way that we can truly remove

00:54:28   all of the needs that we have for computers, for Macs in our lives, is if the iPad can understand

00:54:37   and technology wider.

00:54:40   That's what I want to see Apple focus on.

00:54:44   If they truly believe that the iPad and the iPad Pro

00:54:47   is a desktop replacement,

00:54:49   it is the thing that will replace PCs,

00:54:51   it is the thing that will replace Macs,

00:54:53   which I do believe that they believe this,

00:54:56   or at least I believe that Tim Cook wants this,

00:54:59   which is why they're pushing for it.

00:55:01   I would like to see a world that my,

00:55:06   People don't like it when I say this, me and Jason

00:55:08   will talk about it as an upgrade.

00:55:09   I wanna see USB-C or Thunderbolt 3 on an iPad Pro.

00:55:13   - Yeah, I feel like so much of that falls under

00:55:18   two aspects of iOS, which is file management

00:55:21   and the audio framework.

00:55:22   Because a lot of the things that, when we talk about

00:55:25   understanding technology wider, a lot of that is

00:55:28   external drives for managing documents and archiving files

00:55:34   or audio interfaces, whether it's a microphone or probably a USB audio interface.

00:55:42   Fixing file management and the way that iOS manages audio streams and connections to audio hardware,

00:55:52   that's on the top of my list.

00:55:55   I guess that maybe Apple wants you to buy a bunch of dongles.

00:56:00   I also think it would be better to have multiple connections going on at the same time.

00:56:04   I know that it kind of chips away at the idea of an iPad is just a piece of glass, just one button that goes home,

00:56:13   and just one connection, which is lightning.

00:56:15   There's a beauty, there's some kind of elegance about that, because it's like the iPhone.

00:56:19   But maybe it doesn't have to be like the iPhone.

00:56:21   They've broken the seal now anyway, the smart connector broke the seal.

00:56:25   Exactly, there's already a smart connector.

00:56:27   So once you've done that, and Apple seems to be kind of eager to support USB-C,

00:56:35   because all things aside with the confusion with Thunderbolt 2 and 3, it is a beautiful standard.

00:56:43   It's just one reversible plug, it's small, and it's going to be the future of USB.

00:56:47   And I think that would be a fair compromise to have Lightning and USB-C on the iPad Pro,

00:56:54   Because you can sell the idea of the future so much. Everything is going to be wireless, everything is going to be this beautiful wire-free communication.

00:57:02   But it's always going to be the future. It's always going to be that way.

00:57:07   But right now there's people who need to connect things to get work done.

00:57:12   And most of those things tend to be file management, audio interfaces, you could say displays maybe.

00:57:21   I don't want to see Wacom tablets or things like that because I don't see the cursor support happening on iOS

00:57:28   but

00:57:30   just one USB-C

00:57:32   connector and then let me buy a hub, let me buy a dongle, whatever. I feel like a lot more people would be optimistic

00:57:39   about the iPad as a platform if only it had that connector and

00:57:44   You know

00:57:48   There's some people are gonna say Apple is never gonna do that

00:57:51   But I feel like we're past the point where we can argue what what Apple is never going to do. They made a stylus

00:57:58   They made a stylus. They put a connector on the back of the iPad. They made a keyboard that is also a case

00:58:05   they then

00:58:07   this idealistic view of Apple as

00:58:10   against cables against

00:58:12   External inputs that is not true anymore. There is the idea of Apple

00:58:17   five, six years ago, I think from a very practical point of view,

00:58:21   just having Lightning, a USB-C,

00:58:25   would go a long way to just free people from the idea in the back of the mind

00:58:32   that they're always gonna need a Mac because the iPad, some things cannot do.

00:58:36   So we'll see.

00:58:39   I hope for it. I really do. I want to see this platform continue.

00:58:44   There's a lot of talk right now about the Surface Studio and about Apple's

00:58:50   Apple turning its back on creatives, right? In the wake of Microsoft creating

00:58:56   something like the Surface Studio. The key, the Apple's thing that they have,

00:59:01   the jewel in their crown is iOS, is the iPad. That is what they can push in the

00:59:05   creative market if they really want to go that way. And I think that the iPad

00:59:09   can be really well suited for that. You mentioned Wacom tablets. You don't

00:59:14   need them because you can do it directly on the screen with the Apple Pencil.

00:59:18   Right. Like the the iPad, the type of work that can be done on the iPad is

00:59:25   quite frequently creative work.

00:59:27   Right. It is stuff that does not require really strong processing power.

00:59:34   Right. It is writing.

00:59:36   It is painting.

00:59:38   It is design.

00:59:39   It is layout. It is all that kind of stuff that will allow you to kind of

00:59:44   of really open the door to allowing creative people in and I really hope that Apple continue

00:59:51   to think about what they can do to iOS and the iPad and the iPad Pro as a way to open

00:59:57   up to that market a little bit more.

01:00:00   I think that maybe it is interesting to consider that instead of Apple taking its foot on the

01:00:06   gas for the Pro market on Macs or the creative market on Macs that they're actually putting

01:00:12   the gas back on with the iPad and they see that as their route and me and Federico hope

01:00:19   that Apple also see that as the future of their computing platforms as they continue

01:00:23   to make the iPad a better and better machine.

01:00:26   We'll see, it's something we can continue to hope for and I'm eagerly awaiting March

01:00:31   to see exactly what it is that Apple is looking to do and I really hope to see not only what

01:00:39   the rumors we've spoken about for the last couple of weeks about a refresh to the line

01:00:44   but also to see what they're willing to do to the iPad Pro to make it an even more Pro device.

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01:03:01   So Federico, a couple of weeks ago I sent you a message and I said, "Federico, I need

01:03:08   a good markdown text editor." And we spoke about this on the show that I ended up going

01:03:12   with Bear, and Bear is what I'm using. But now you're going to tell me about another

01:03:16   one.

01:03:17   I mean, I'm sorry, that's my first comment, but there's an update for, you know, IA Writer,

01:03:26   you know, from the company Information Architects, I think it's the full name.

01:03:31   Yeah, it is, IA Writer is an app that's been around for a while, it's done some weird things

01:03:36   in the past, when it split up into like, what was it, like 17 different applications it

01:03:40   became.

01:03:41   Yeah, it used to be two apps, it used to be a pro version, eventually they kind of went

01:03:47   back and did just IA writer. And they've done some things with the developer

01:03:53   community I think that didn't put them in a, you know, under a good spotlight at all.

01:03:58   What was that? They tried to paint some words or something?

01:04:02   Yeah, no they tried to file a pen for one of the features of the app I think.

01:04:08   Either focus mode or how you can highlight different parts of speech.

01:04:14   Like the syntax highlighting stuff.

01:04:16   Yeah, yeah. That was a truly bad move.

01:04:19   I can tell how nice you are. You know how nice you are.

01:04:22   I'm goading you into talking about these things.

01:04:24   You don't want to talk about them, but I'm making you do it.

01:04:26   No, no, it's fine. I mean, it's, you know,

01:04:28   I feel like they made a truly bad decision with that stuff.

01:04:33   It's something I wouldn't have done,

01:04:37   especially because, you know, the iOS in the developer community

01:04:40   is very, you know, tight community.

01:04:43   Exactly, and it used to be the time when that troll was threatening to sue developers, and

01:04:53   then another developer was also asking for credit, and it was messy, and something I

01:04:59   would not have done.

01:05:00   But it's been a few years, and it is my job to judge apps on the technical level, on the

01:05:06   functional level.

01:05:07   So this update to IA Writer version 4 came out and I got a beta, I've been playing around

01:05:14   with the beta.

01:05:15   And there's some aspects that truly intrigue me and I feel like the app itself, if you

01:05:23   forget about the backstory, which most people don't care about, you know, nobody...

01:05:28   No, it's mostly forgotten now, it's dealt with, they took the right thing, they went

01:05:33   back on it.

01:05:34   Yeah, exactly.

01:05:35   backtracked on it and only looking at the app.

01:05:40   There's a lot of things to like and there's a lot of features that could make this app

01:05:48   one of the best markdown text editors on iOS.

01:05:51   And I think because of what happened a few years ago, I don't see this app mentioned

01:05:57   on a lot of blogs, at least the people that I follow on Twitter and RSS.

01:06:03   But it is an app full of interesting details.

01:06:08   The big news in version 4 is that you can add content blocks.

01:06:13   This is called in computing transclusions.

01:06:14   Uh oh, we're going deep now.

01:06:18   With transclusions you can...

01:06:19   No, it's very simple.

01:06:20   You can reference a file and include that file in the output of another.

01:06:28   So in IaRatter it means you can create a text file, reference by name another text file,

01:06:35   actually a bunch of text files, a bunch of images, then when you compile, let's say you

01:06:40   compile the master file, you're gonna have the contents of all the references inside

01:06:46   the body of the main file.

01:06:49   In practical terms this means I could have a master table of contents file when I insert

01:06:55   a bunch of references to introduction.txt and section1.txt and when I export this file,

01:07:02   the contents, the plain text, the markdown of those files will be included. And when you apply

01:07:09   this transclusion to the fact that I rather can include text files, images and even CSV files,

01:07:19   spreadsheets which are automatically converted to multi markdown tables. That's amazing!

01:07:25   And the idea is we can let you produce these long manuscripts, you know, documents that take

01:07:32   files and references from a bunch of different places in your local directory.

01:07:37   So you don't have to have, you don't need to have this long document that's like 20 000 words,

01:07:45   you can just include references.

01:07:47   Could be quotes, could be sections, could be images, could be tables.

01:07:52   And I think that's a very clever idea.

01:07:54   They're publishing in a very stark difference from the past.

01:07:59   They're publishing the spec that they used on GitHub for other developers to adopt.

01:08:04   And I saw some back and forth on Twitter with John Gruber.

01:08:09   And John said this is exactly why I didn't want to have

01:08:13   a very precise and updated spec for Markdown, because it means people can jump in, make modifications, suggest them,

01:08:22   and by leaving Markdown the basic idea, so pure, so simple, others can extend it in a way that I don't want to do.

01:08:30   And I think that's very clever, and I think content blocks based on Transclusion is one of those ideas.

01:08:36   It builds upon Markdown in a way that makes sense to me, because the syntax to include these references is super simple.

01:08:42   You just need to type a forward slash followed by the file name.

01:08:45   All right, I have a few things.

01:08:47   I'm a little bit confused about this, okay?

01:08:49   So I'm gonna need your help.

01:08:50   So why do you want to do this?

01:08:53   I'm thinking when I'm working on reviews or other types of documents, long documents,

01:09:00   instead I can break it up in different files, kind of like I did with Scrivener this past

01:09:07   summer for my iOS 10 review.

01:09:09   It was broken up in a bunch of multiple documents instead of being in one single document that

01:09:14   is too long to scroll or when you want to find and replace you're going to have too

01:09:19   many results, so it's more convenient when you're working on a long document, it's more

01:09:23   convenient to break it up.

01:09:25   And I can reference files to include them in the final output with just a line, with

01:09:31   just the file name.

01:09:33   And especially for multi-markdown tables, being able to work in Excel or Numbers, which

01:09:39   are fantastic for, you know, spreadsheets are made for this, I can create a table there

01:09:45   instead of having to deal with a messy multi-markdown table syntax. I can create a table in Excel

01:09:50   or Numbers and then I can save it in IaWriter and I have a multi-markdown table. I don't

01:09:56   have to do any script.

01:09:57   How do you do that though? Like if the table is in Numbers, how can it be in IaWriter with

01:10:02   a piece of text?

01:10:04   import it because I write it as excellent support for document pickers

01:10:09   so you can import the document and I was curious to check out this

01:10:15   feature so during the weekend I needed to produce some documentation for max

01:10:21   stories for the way that we do things I needed to write a tutorial for the

01:10:27   people who work for me and I took a bunch of screenshots and instead of

01:10:34   having to upload them, get the link, I put everything in a folder in iA Writer.

01:10:40   So you import the images into the application? Yes, in a folder, in a sub

01:10:46   folder into the iCloud container of the app. I created a folder, put a bunch of

01:10:53   images, started writing my text file, I referenced the images without having to

01:10:57   upload them by using a file name. Then I hit preview markdown, I generated a PDF

01:11:05   and I had a PDF documentation file that I shared with my people.

01:11:11   And how do you know the file names? How do you know them to reference them?

01:11:14   Do you name them in IARiter?

01:11:15   Yes, yes. There's a rename feature and you see there's keyboard shortcuts.

01:11:23   If you're working on the iPad, you can go back and forth between the sidebar, where the files are,

01:11:29   and the text editor, and the preview. You can navigate all of it with the keyboard.

01:11:33   And I feel like this support for content blocks could be useful for me.

01:11:38   But there's also other features that I want to talk about that I think could be useful.

01:11:43   So i8Rider, unlike other text editors, is one of the few apps that allow you...

01:11:47   This is going to get confusing, so pay attention, Myke.

01:11:50   One of the few apps that allow you to open a document from other apps using the document picker in open and edit mode.

01:12:01   Oh, yeah, no, I understand this because I listen to Canvas.

01:12:04   Yeah, you can... So let's say that I have... So we use GitHub or Club Maxories to organize our text documents that every Friday will become the newsletter.

01:12:16   With IA Writer, I can open a file from a GitHub repository.

01:12:22   I can make edits. I don't have to create a copy, I don't have to create a duplicate. It makes changes

01:12:29   directly into the working copy. It's the name of the app that we use, it's a GitHub client.

01:12:35   It makes changes directly into the version of the file that is originally stored into working copy.

01:12:41   And that is amazing because it means I can leverage all of the other markdown features of the app

01:12:47   instead of having to use the, you know, working copy doesn't have a real text editor

01:12:51   or having to use Textastic which is a code editor which is not really meant for markdown.

01:12:57   Yeah, most of these applications that use document pickers, they create a copy, don't they?

01:13:03   Yes.

01:13:03   Then you work on a new fresh version which you can then save back in, which is better

01:13:08   than it was before but still not where we'd like it to be.

01:13:10   This is interesting, so could you take a markdown document from Dropbox

01:13:15   and you could just open it and edit it and save it?

01:13:18   That's the thing. I think it depends on whether the document provider supports...

01:13:23   So Dropbox, I don't think it does.

01:13:26   Working Copy does, and it's an excellent drive.

01:13:28   Drive does as well, right? I think Drive does.

01:13:30   I think it does, I'm not super sure.

01:13:34   Anyway, there's Open and Edit mode.

01:13:36   There's also iCloud versions.

01:13:38   So to use these content block features that I told you about,

01:13:43   you need to use iCloud.

01:13:45   Because I think Dropbox SDK has some limitations

01:13:48   for developers.

01:13:48   And they cannot-- even Ulysses, we saw some features are

01:13:52   exclusive to iCloud.

01:13:54   And in i8Rider, you need to use iCloud for content blocks.

01:13:57   iCloud's getting a lot better at this stuff.

01:13:59   It is getting better.

01:14:00   It is getting better.

01:14:01   And with i8Rider, you can actually browse and revert

01:14:05   to an older version of a document in iCalc, which is very nice.

01:14:09   Are you using iCloud sync with Ulysses now?

01:14:11   Oh yeah, I've always been. I've always been using iCloud with Ulysses.

01:14:15   It's been working fine for me.

01:14:18   But the big difference between Ulysses and IE Writer is that

01:14:23   you see real markdown in IE, you see the syntax in line.

01:14:29   And there's...

01:14:31   I mean, what I mentioned, the syntax highlight, it's very useful, especially for someone like

01:14:38   me, English is not my native language, if I make the common mistake of using too many

01:14:43   adjectives or too many adverbs, I can just highlight those in the document and I will

01:14:48   see those parts of speech in a different color, which is useful if I want to avoid repetitions

01:14:53   or maybe cut on the adverbs that I use.

01:14:56   Don't listen to them, man, they're just trying to tame your passion.

01:14:59   No, sometimes I get a little too deep into those words.

01:15:04   So there's a lot of things to like about IE Writer.

01:15:09   I think it's important for me to consider what I need.

01:15:14   The big downside of IE is that it lacks the automation features of Ulysses.

01:15:21   It doesn't have an extensive URL scheme.

01:15:25   I think you saw what I do for the club.

01:15:28   I've seen some truly horrific things.

01:15:30   They're not horrific, they're beautiful.

01:15:32   I mean horrific in a "you won't believe you've seen such a thing".

01:15:35   It's beauty that one cannot perceive.

01:15:38   [Laughter]

01:15:40   I'm thinking whether, you know, what I do with Ulysses,

01:15:45   I have Workflow basically generate a template of sections for me.

01:15:51   It does some regular expressions, a bunch of things, it reformats text, and it puts it into a document in Ulysses

01:16:00   because there's a URL scheme that lets me do that automation.

01:16:03   In IEA there's not that kind of automation support, but I could just, you know, what Workflow does,

01:16:08   instead of sending it to Ulysses, I could just copy to the clipboard, open IEA and paste.

01:16:13   The result will be the same.

01:16:14   And I'm thinking, you know, with this content block stuff, with iCloud versions, with the document picker open and edit mode, with the parts of speech highlights, this is a great writing environment.

01:16:31   It seems like it's kind of like a love child of Ulysses and Scrivener.

01:16:36   Yes, that's a good way to put it. It's the best things of those two apps rolled into one that actually shows you markdown in line.

01:16:48   And it can, also I gotta mention it, exports in a lot of different formats.

01:16:53   IaWriter, I mean, there's a lot of power users, little features that are too many to mention.

01:16:59   There's a customizable keyboard row, you can generate HTML for text selections, there's a bunch of keyboard shortcuts.

01:17:05   keyboard shortcuts. It's really well done. It's a shame that it's not mentioned too

01:17:11   often I think between iOS "power users".

01:17:14   Well I think it kind of fell behind a little bit.

01:17:17   Maybe. It's been a good app for almost a year now I think.

01:17:22   Since version 3 came out I'm not sure when that was.

01:17:25   Well I just mean like in...

01:17:27   Okay falling behind is probably the wrong way to say it.

01:17:30   They haven't had a big release in a while.

01:17:32   You know, Ulysses and Scrivener have come, they're new, they've come to the fore, right?

01:17:36   Yeah. And I think, you know, I feel like, as I told you, for the iPad, it's important for me to

01:17:46   keep trying apps, to keep trying to optimize, and to understand what I can save more time.

01:17:52   And also, I need to have a writing environment that helps me write more and write better.

01:18:01   I like these features, and I know that there's going to be people who tell me,

01:18:06   "Also, now you're using this different app."

01:18:10   There's a couple of points that I want to make there.

01:18:14   The automations that I use with Workflow, the beautiful aspect of those,

01:18:18   is that no matter the text editor that I use, those automations stay the same.

01:18:24   I can publish to Mac stories from both Apple Notes or Scrivener even,

01:18:31   Jolysis, IE Writer, it doesn't matter. - Why is that though?

01:18:35   Because I made a workflow that makes sure that as long as I share markdown text,

01:18:41   the end result is always going to be the same.

01:18:43   Right, so the input is just markdown.

01:18:45   So like you can trigger it from wherever, basically, when the text is selected.

01:18:50   This gives me the freedom of trying a bunch of different apps,

01:18:55   see what works better, and have a consistent result in the end.

01:18:59   So even if I switch between apps,

01:19:03   I'm not switching between locked-in proprietary sandboxes.

01:19:09   I guess the only problem now, though, is that because the file system is iCloud,

01:19:13   it's harder to move, I assume, than it was when it was Dropbox?

01:19:17   Every time I have a draft for something important, I make a habit of making two copies.

01:19:24   I have a workflow that saves my document both to Dropbox and to GitHub.

01:19:32   I make two copies and every time I publish, in case I forget,

01:19:36   because you're gonna have people who tell me "Yeah, but what if you forget to export the document?"

01:19:42   I don't forget when I'm working on an important review.

01:19:45   But in case I forget, maybe I'm working on a linked post for Mac Stories,

01:19:50   something that is not super important, right?

01:19:53   Every time I publish, the same publishing workflow also saves a copy to my Dropbox.

01:19:58   So besides the copy in the local file system of AI Writer,

01:20:03   and besides the published version of Mac Stories,

01:20:06   I also have a text version, a txt file in my Dropbox.

01:20:11   So, I guess I rely on workflow to keep things consistent,

01:20:16   but I have the freedom of switching between different apps

01:20:19   and see which writing environment is the best.

01:20:23   And I think it's a good system, honestly.

01:20:25   - So are you currently planning on using IARiter over uses?

01:20:28   - I don't know.

01:20:29   I don't know, I think it's great

01:20:31   that I can have this experiment, right?

01:20:34   I think it's nice that I can,

01:20:37   Especially because a lot of my work stuff lately, and I mean in the past year,

01:20:43   happens on web services like Trello and Todoist or Zapier.

01:20:49   As long as my main data is in the cloud, the client side can be flexible.

01:20:56   So as long as I have my Club Max stories reader questions in Trello,

01:21:04   I can use Workflow to bring those questions into a bunch of different apps.

01:21:10   So, yes, I'm going to test IA Writer, but what I want to stress is I'm not going to test it.

01:21:18   It's not a losing game for me. It's not that I'm making compromises.

01:21:22   Because as long as I have my Workflow automation and my data in the cloud with web services,

01:21:29   I can switch between different clients and the result is always gonna be the same.

01:21:34   So optimized.

01:21:37   Yeah, that's what I like to do. I don't have time to

01:21:41   switch between different apps and every time I gotta do, you know,

01:21:46   the documents are not gonna be the same. As long as an app, my

01:21:51   at most essential aspects are, it needs to support Markdown

01:21:56   and it needs to have a share sheet.

01:21:58   And once those two conditions are met, I can do anything.

01:22:02   I guess you could say that if workflow goes away,

01:22:06   I'm screwed.

01:22:07   - I didn't wanna say it, but I was thinking it.

01:22:10   - But let's just hope it won't go away.

01:22:13   - I think me and you had this conversation before

01:22:15   that you would just have to buy it, right?

01:22:18   - Yeah, I think so.

01:22:20   - Max stories would just have to acquire workflow

01:22:22   just to keep it alive.

01:22:25   I'm not even joking when I say I've got to consider something like that.

01:22:31   You know, it used to be editorial and Pythonista, and workflow came around just when the development

01:22:39   on those apps kind of slowed down.

01:22:42   So I moved from one to another.

01:22:44   But at this point I'm way deeper into workflow than I used to be with editorial and Pythonista.

01:22:49   So if there's any problems, we will have to think of a plan.

01:22:54   We'll have to have a conversation.

01:22:56   We gotta have a talk, we gotta sit down and have a talk about what we're gonna do.

01:23:00   You gotta make them an offer they can't refuse, Federico.

01:23:02   I'm not sure I'm in the position to do that, but we have a bunch of money lying around

01:23:08   in my savings account.

01:23:09   You gotta start a war chest now, just in case.

01:23:13   Yes.

01:23:14   One of the best ways to help Federico with a massive amount of money that he's gonna

01:23:18   need to buy workflow one day is to support our sponsors the great folks over at Smile,

01:23:23   Matt Weldon and Hover. Do you like that? I'm all about tying things in today. I don't know if you've

01:23:28   noticed. No, no it was a great job. Thank you so much. Thank you and thank you as always Federico

01:23:34   for joining me today. You can find Federico online at maxlories.net. You can find him on

01:23:39   the twitter he is @Vitiicci. You should also check Federico out on his other Relay FM shows,

01:23:46   remaster and canvas. If you want to find me online I am @imikefederico

01:23:54   and I've already spoken about you. I'm now going to move to Stephen. Stephen is online

01:23:58   he's at 512pixels.net. He's somewhere in the internet right now. Maybe or maybe not. I

01:24:04   think he's trying to put out the ISP file which has found its way into level 4 of the

01:24:11   museum so he's trying to deal with that right now. It's a whole big mess. Thanks so much

01:24:16   listening. We'll be back next week. Until then, say goodbye, Federico.

01:24:19   Arrivederci.