114: Two and Half Macs


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:07   From Relay FM this is Connected episode

00:00:10   114. Today's show is brought to you by

00:00:13   TextExpander

00:00:14   from Smile. My name is Myke Hurley and I

00:00:17   am joined by Mr Federico Vittucci. Ciao

00:00:19   Federico.

00:00:20   Oh hey ciao Myke. And Stephen Hackett it

00:00:22   is your day.

00:00:23   It is your evening. You got the event

00:00:25   that you've always dreamed of.

00:00:26   How was Stephen Hackett?

00:00:28   - That may be going a little far.

00:00:30   (laughing)

00:00:31   - The Macintosh, everybody.

00:00:33   - Yeah, they still make one of 'em.

00:00:35   - At least.

00:00:36   - So, yeah, so we're gonna skip follow-up this week.

00:00:40   As you might imagine, we have a lot to cover,

00:00:42   but it will return next week.

00:00:44   I wanna talk a little bit about the lead-up to this event,

00:00:49   because I think it's interesting to talk about

00:00:51   framing in these things.

00:00:53   So yesterday, or two days ago,

00:00:57   Someone found images in Sierra of what

00:01:01   ended up being the MacBook Pro with the touch bar.

00:01:06   In what seems to be some sort of Apple Pay framework folders--

00:01:10   in my blog post, I actually found where it is

00:01:12   and put the path.

00:01:13   But it shipped in 10.12.1, which is really unfortunate.

00:01:19   Doubling down on secrecy doesn't count

00:01:20   if you're a software developer, I guess.

00:01:22   I mean, clearly an accident.

00:01:23   I feel bad for the person who did this.

00:01:26   and then got fired.

00:01:27   - You know, I've been thinking about that,

00:01:30   and I think that would have happened in old Apple.

00:01:35   Today, I'm not so sure.

00:01:37   I don't know if they would have been canned or not,

00:01:38   but they definitely had a bad day,

00:01:40   regardless of what happened,

00:01:41   but it leaked and they really took some of the edge

00:01:44   out of the surprise, obviously,

00:01:46   but kind of painful when it's in Apple's own software.

00:01:49   - Yeah, it was less than ideal, I think,

00:01:53   especially now, like in hindsight,

00:01:56   It was like, this was the main thing,

00:01:58   pretty much the only thing that was really big today

00:02:02   was this innovation, plus it shows off

00:02:05   a lot of the design functionality and features

00:02:09   of this product and also set the bad tone

00:02:12   of this doesn't have an escape key,

00:02:14   which everybody was really upset about for two days.

00:02:17   And then it's just like everyone going into this

00:02:21   who really cared about the MacBook Pro

00:02:23   had a poorer version of it in their mind.

00:02:26   So this is the problem with all of this stuff,

00:02:30   how the narrative gets twisted.

00:02:32   The MacBook, remember the MacBook with the one port?

00:02:36   We were all hating on it before it even arrived

00:02:39   because we knew it had one port.

00:02:41   I mean, even after the story was told,

00:02:43   there wasn't really a great reason for it.

00:02:44   But there just was nothing that we're able to,

00:02:50   we're all just getting our own minds made up about it before we could even see it

00:02:55   and that kind of happened here. So I can't imagine they're very happy at least.

00:02:58   Yeah but I mean we already knew the touch bar was coming. So I mean yes it was a leak and it's less than intentional

00:03:04   especially when it looks like someone just forgot about a bunch of graphic assets in a folder.

00:03:10   But I don't think it's a big deal. I mean the press knew it was coming. Normal people don't go on to my

00:03:15   go on to my crew and say "oh look they found some images in a folder in the

00:03:20   finder they don't even know what it means" so I mean it was mostly a leak for

00:03:24   people in the know which is us and I don't think it's a big deal. Honestly

00:03:29   sometimes I think Apple doesn't want surprises anymore to the extent of the

00:03:34   kind of features they know the press and the tech nerds are gonna obsess about

00:03:38   like the headphone jack for example obviously it was no you know real leak

00:03:44   when they first, you know, get out to the press. Because I feel like sometimes I

00:03:48   just want to get the most, the aspects that they know people are gonna criticize,

00:03:54   let that sink in for a few days or for the headphone jack a few months and

00:03:59   then do the event as usual and focus on the software, focus on what it means.

00:04:03   That's how I view it.

00:04:06   To your point, the leaked images lack context, right?

00:04:09   That, like the escape key thing, like in the human interface guides that key is

00:04:13   is supposed to be there basically almost all the time.

00:04:16   But without that, without the full knowledge

00:04:19   of what Apple's gonna do, then we all sort of run around

00:04:21   with our hair on fire and we're gonna get to

00:04:24   like actual responses to the thing, but I just,

00:04:27   when I saw that leak and like, yep, sure enough,

00:04:29   it's sitting on my SSD and everyone else's,

00:04:31   it's a real unfortunate event.

00:04:34   - One thing though, like the best kind of way

00:04:38   for something like this to break

00:04:40   is for it to exist on all of our computers.

00:04:42   Right, like it's quite possibly the best way for a product to be leaked accidentally, is

00:04:48   we all have the image if we update it to Sierra.

00:04:51   Right, it's like the best possible way of something leaking out is it's like it's a

00:04:57   Trojan horse.

00:04:58   We all have it.

00:04:59   We all have the leak.

00:05:00   It's just if we found it or not.

00:05:01   It's kind of hilarious.

00:05:02   Right, it's very efficient.

00:05:04   Talking about efficiency, AirPods are not shipping this month and we don't know when

00:05:09   they're going to be shipping now.

00:05:11   Yeah, that was that was weird, right?

00:05:13   I mean because we kind of hoped that there would be an announcement today like they're shipping tomorrow, but nope surprise

00:05:20   We got a statement to TechCrunch and a bunch of other people. They're coming soon now if you go to the website

00:05:26   There's no more late October just coming soon. And I mean, okay, you know

00:05:31   I remember the old Miyamoto quote that a delayed game is eventually good that rushed game is forever bad

00:05:37   and if you apply that line of thinking to the AirPods, I mean, you know, it'll be

00:05:43   better hopefully to have a good product than a rushed one, which happened many

00:05:47   many times with Apple in the past few years, so it's okay if they want to get

00:05:51   it right. It's just the messaging of "we want to remove the headphone jack",

00:05:57   "we want to embrace wireless audio" and then, you know, the AirPods are

00:06:02   not coming. The W1 chip with the Beats rollout has been all kinds of weird like

00:06:08   the the Solo 3 launched early, the other two models were not available until

00:06:13   earlier this week, you still cannot buy the Beats X whatever is the name, so I

00:06:18   feel like they made this big splashy statement about we wanna you know move

00:06:24   to a wireless future but then you know now everything is coming soon and there's

00:06:29   Because if you want to try the W1 experience, you gotta buy the Beats products.

00:06:33   Yeah, it's a shame.

00:06:34   I was excited for them.

00:06:37   And I was, you know, I'm going on a trip this weekend, and I was going to get those or,

00:06:44   you know, because I want Bluetooth headphones now because traveling means I need Bluetooth

00:06:48   because it just won't work for me otherwise.

00:06:50   So now I might end up with the Solo 3s.

00:06:53   I might go make it those, I don't know.

00:06:54   I'm gonna see what's available in the airport this weekend.

00:06:58   It's a shame. Yeah, I mean and the timing does make sense, right?

00:07:01   If they if this event had come and gone with no word and that would be in

00:07:05   The news cycle with all these new machines, but having it the night before everyone kind of understands it. We're all bummed

00:07:12   I'm like you guys like I'm super interested in this product. I was hoping that I could order today or tomorrow

00:07:16   but

00:07:19   Getting it out the night before means that it's not

00:07:21   Caught up in the MacBook cycle and like it's it's a very short cycle

00:07:25   We do it last night and then you know 16 hours later you have an event

00:07:29   Then this just gets swept off the front page of every everyone's Apple blog, so mm-hmm it will

00:07:34   You know they'll show up eventually. I'm hoping that they get them in plenty of time for the holidays

00:07:40   I think this is a sort of thing that like make a great gift for Apple nerds in your life

00:07:44   So hopefully they only need a couple more weeks, and they can get these things shipping all right should we move on to the event?

00:07:50   What event?

00:07:53   I feel like you had that joke, you came up with it like an hour ago.

00:08:01   Just natural, it just came out.

00:08:03   It's just your natural humour and wit.

00:08:05   I guess, yes Myke.

00:08:07   Well there was an event about the Mac, did you see it or did you just, you know.

00:08:11   About the what?

00:08:17   Steven, I would like to apologize on behalf of the continent of Europe for Federico's

00:08:23   behavior.

00:08:24   Yes.

00:08:25   It's, you know, young people and parties and drugs, it's all madness over there.

00:08:29   iPads raining from the skies.

00:08:32   So the event opened with this, what I thought at least, an excellent section on accessibility.

00:08:42   And they showed this video of people interacting with Apple products and then you kind of see

00:08:48   the video itself as meta and that the person actually editing the video is in a wheelchair

00:08:55   and using lots of accessibility options and techniques to edit the video.

00:09:01   And it really reminded me, you guys remember the video a couple of years ago, maybe at

00:09:07   WWDC with the...

00:09:09   It was the blind man who was in the forest, right? Yes. Yes. Yeah. I got the same like warm fuzzy feeling

00:09:17   Watching this video as I did a couple years ago with that one. I thought was a great way to start start off the event

00:09:23   Yeah, there were a lot of things in there that I didn't know

00:09:26   that the products did because I you know, like

00:09:28   The most time that I've ever spent with voiceover was when we were getting the app ready with our stickers

00:09:36   I was working on all of the voiceover names,

00:09:40   which was an interesting experience

00:09:42   as I was trying to get the phone to say things

00:09:45   the way that they should be heard.

00:09:46   Vitici Seal of Quality was a nightmare.

00:09:50   To get it to say Vitici, that was very difficult.

00:09:53   But using that was like, it was really interesting to me

00:09:56   to see like, how the phone feels with that feature enabled.

00:10:01   And something that I had no idea that it did

00:10:04   was giving some kind of prompts with the camera app,

00:10:08   'cause they showed somebody using it

00:10:10   and it was like focused on small face

00:10:12   and it was like, oh my word, that's amazing.

00:10:15   You know, like it can work that out

00:10:17   and it can give that information.

00:10:19   I thought it was, that was kind of mind blowing.

00:10:21   Like there were all these little things

00:10:22   that I had no idea these products did

00:10:25   because I've never needed them

00:10:27   and I've never tried them out.

00:10:28   - Yeah, it's really great.

00:10:32   And it was sort of an announcement that

00:10:36   apple.com/accessibility has been greatly overhauled.

00:10:40   This video we're talking about is at the top of the page.

00:10:43   There's a page and section about Switch Control,

00:10:46   which is what you see in those last shots

00:10:49   of the video being edited.

00:10:51   And it's a really nice way that they're breaking down

00:10:55   what they're doing.

00:10:56   And I think a lot of people, including myself,

00:10:58   when I think about Apple and accessibility,

00:10:59   I think about iOS first.

00:11:01   and I think they've made greater strides there.

00:11:04   But highlighting that it's on the Mac as well

00:11:06   and that they care about it across their ecosystem,

00:11:08   like there's even a section in here about HomeKit

00:11:12   and Apple TV and what it can do in the accessibility realm.

00:11:16   It's painting a broader picture than they have in the past

00:11:18   about what they're doing.

00:11:20   And just two big thumbs up from me.

00:11:23   - Yeah, it was a nice thing to do

00:11:25   rather than to wheel out some celebrities instead.

00:11:28   To actually make a meaningful video

00:11:31   which highlights something about the products,

00:11:33   which is important, but not everybody will understand

00:11:35   or know anything about.

00:11:37   So, thumbs up.

00:11:38   - Indeed.

00:11:40   So they then went into sort of like state of the union stuff

00:11:45   which Apple used to do more of

00:11:46   and they haven't done it in recent events.

00:11:48   But talking about the iPhone 7 and the Apple Watch,

00:11:51   got a couple stats, 60% of the iOS install base

00:11:55   is now on iOS 10.

00:11:57   And then we had a section of what I've called in my notes

00:11:59   of Tim shows us his emails.

00:12:02   (laughing)

00:12:03   - This is excruciating to watch.

00:12:06   Just Tim was like, and our customers have emailed

00:12:09   their photos, like this one, and this one,

00:12:13   and this, like why did he keep,

00:12:15   I don't know why he did it.

00:12:17   - Time.

00:12:19   - Also like, don't show us the most beautiful photos

00:12:22   in the world of like people that look like models.

00:12:26   Because I don't believe you.

00:12:28   I don't believe that they were your customers.

00:12:30   They may have well been, but I can't,

00:12:31   I just can't believe it.

00:12:32   Show me, like, I don't know.

00:12:34   Do you know what I mean?

00:12:35   They look exactly like the photos that they show on stage

00:12:38   when they're trying to demo the product.

00:12:40   - There is a little bit of precedent for this.

00:12:46   Back in the day when like iMovie was a big push,

00:12:49   Steve Jobs used to show iMovies that customers had made,

00:12:54   and like there was a line somewhere of like,

00:12:57   I may be such a big hit with customers,

00:12:59   it's so easy to use, they just keep sending us

00:13:00   their home videos, which is even stranger, right?

00:13:03   Like, I could see, like, I took this,

00:13:05   I mean, it's weird, right, and I would never do it,

00:13:06   like, I would never send Tim Cook a picture that I took.

00:13:09   But it's even stranger, like, hey, Tim,

00:13:12   here's, or hey, Steve, here is a movie that I made

00:13:14   of my four-year-old, you know, running in the park,

00:13:17   I really wanted to share it with you,

00:13:18   CEO of a giant corporation.

00:13:20   - It's like, I am very confident that you wanna see this,

00:13:23   so I'm gonna send it to you.

00:13:24   - Well I mean if you work in the marketing department

00:13:27   and you need to buy your devices,

00:13:29   do you count as a customer or as an employee?

00:13:32   - Oh. (laughing)

00:13:34   - I believe him, I believe him that they were,

00:13:36   I mean I take him at his word, but it's--

00:13:38   - I mean it would be silly to lie,

00:13:40   but like I just mean they should,

00:13:41   I don't know, they should look more real.

00:13:43   They should, the focus is--

00:13:45   - No seriously, who are these people who email Tim Cook

00:13:48   about their baby pictures and the dogs and the vacations?

00:13:52   Have either of you ever emailed an Apple executive?

00:13:55   No.

00:13:56   I responded to one, but emailed myself.

00:13:59   Oh, ho, ho, ho, look at me.

00:14:01   What about you, Myke?

00:14:03   That's the truth.

00:14:04   I'm sorry I spoke the truth.

00:14:06   Yeah, sure, yeah, that was the question that Steven asked.

00:14:09   Have any of you emailed an Apple executive after they emailed you first?

00:14:15   Insert humblebrag here.

00:14:16   Other than me replying to Tim sending me his holiday snaps, no, I've never.

00:14:21   (laughter)

00:14:23   Oh my gosh.

00:14:25   They moved on, talk about Apple Pay

00:14:27   and transit and maps in Japan,

00:14:30   which is a big move.

00:14:30   Remember the iPhone 7 has some specific hardware in Japan

00:14:34   to do contactless stuff.

00:14:36   So kind of a check in on that.

00:14:37   - I think it's called Seleka or something.

00:14:39   It's spelt like that.

00:14:40   - Something.

00:14:40   - I'm not 100% sure of the pronunciation.

00:14:43   - Talked about the Apple Watch,

00:14:45   recounted some reviews,

00:14:47   reminded people that the Nike Plus Apple Watch

00:14:50   with its abomination of a watch band

00:14:51   is shipping October 28th.

00:14:53   But I wanted to take a minute and talk about

00:14:57   the Apple Watch Series 1 and Series 2,

00:15:00   at least when I looked the other day,

00:15:02   almost every model is still shipping

00:15:03   like two to three weeks out.

00:15:05   Like they seem to not be shipping at any great volume,

00:15:08   release volume that can keep up with demand.

00:15:10   So you still can't really get your hands

00:15:12   on most Apple Watch models, like if you want one today.

00:15:16   Which they didn't, I mean,

00:15:17   they're not gonna say anything about it.

00:15:19   That didn't even come up on the quarterly call yesterday,

00:15:21   which I thought that it might.

00:15:22   You know, some supply and demand thing there.

00:15:25   But right now, if you want an Apple Watch Series 2,

00:15:28   you can go into a store and they have limited options

00:15:32   in the store, but if you just want to order one online,

00:15:34   you're gonna be waiting for a couple weeks still.

00:15:36   - Good thing? - Still, it's been like

00:15:37   a month.

00:15:38   - Good thing, maybe?

00:15:39   Like for Apple?

00:15:41   - Maybe.

00:15:42   I mean, who knows, right?

00:15:43   If they've only made eight, but they've sold 16,

00:15:47   they would still be behind, right?

00:15:49   Like you don't know what the numbers are.

00:15:51   But it's, that just popped in my head of like,

00:15:54   "Oh yeah, those things are still slow to ship."

00:15:56   But I don't know, none of us have ordered new watches,

00:15:59   so I guess we can't speak to that.

00:16:01   - Yeah, I was going to, I'm not going to now.

00:16:06   But I don't need it, I'm fine.

00:16:07   - Yeah, watchOS 3 makes the original hardware fine.

00:16:10   - Yeah.

00:16:11   - It's totally usable, my battery life is still great

00:16:13   on the bigger of the two, like I've got no complaints.

00:16:17   And if I was a swimmer it'd be different, but I'm not.

00:16:19   So I'm not worried about the waterproof stuff.

00:16:22   - Adina had like two or three weeks

00:16:24   where it was dying every day under 38, and that's fine.

00:16:27   Which is weird, it's even weirder.

00:16:29   It's like inconsistent.

00:16:30   - Yeah, I saw some people on Twitter complaining about that.

00:16:33   Maybe an update took care of it, I mean, who knows?

00:16:35   - Yeah, good point, yeah, yeah, good point.

00:16:37   - What is the Apple TV stuff?

00:16:40   Federico, can you walk us through that?

00:16:43   - Basically they announced this new TV app,

00:16:46   which is called just TV.

00:16:48   First they started with some numbers,

00:16:50   the TV OS app store has like 8,000 apps.

00:16:54   Minecraft is coming to TV OS before the end of the year

00:16:57   and they show this 1600 content apps,

00:17:02   which are basically like video services,

00:17:04   you know, entertainment apps.

00:17:06   And there was Twitter on stage showing off live video,

00:17:09   not Vine, which is being killed off,

00:17:12   but Twitter was showing like American football,

00:17:15   whatever it is that Americans call that sport.

00:17:18   Moving on. - This finally kind of made

00:17:21   a little bit of sense to me why Twitter ever made this bid

00:17:24   in the first place.

00:17:25   Like, there was news about this a while ago

00:17:27   that they'd bought the rights to NFL games.

00:17:29   Make no sense, like why would they do that?

00:17:32   If this is something that they wanna do,

00:17:33   this makes a little bit of sense.

00:17:35   I think I saw Jason Snow tweet that he would like

00:17:39   to do this during something like the Oscars,

00:17:41   which I agree with.

00:17:42   Like a big event like that where there's kind of like

00:17:45   Not a lot that you need to pay attention to

00:17:47   Maybe having Twitter up like scrolling through and seeing what's popular and what's trending about the things that are happening might be kind of fun

00:17:55   I can't think of anything that I enjoy

00:17:58   To watch on the television that I would like this experience for though

00:18:02   I don't know if people that enjoy sports would want this. I don't know I

00:18:07   Think I think Casey seemed pumped about it on online earlier, but I've never

00:18:14   Trying to think I think during the first presidential debate I watched it on Twitter for a little while and it I

00:18:21   Just got to a point where was distracting to see

00:18:24   Video and then a bunch of tweets from like selected accounts go by and it was kind of like too much stuff coming in on

00:18:29   the web or something

00:18:31   Yes, okay

00:18:33   and

00:18:34   You know for me like I mean I like any other

00:18:38   young person in air quotes will

00:18:42   Often watch TV or movies like with my iPad or iPhone like looking at Twitter looking at slack like that

00:18:46   The second screen thing is is something that I do

00:18:49   It's probably not good for my attention span, but something that I do

00:18:52   And so like for me like do I want to watch a game and then watch other people's tweets or do I want to watch?

00:18:57   Like the people I follow tweet about it, right?

00:19:01   Like do I want to watch a presidential debate and like follow my political nerds on my Twitter list for politics, you know

00:19:07   for me it

00:19:09   It only really it doesn't really do what Twitter was designed to do because it doesn't give me interactions with people that I choose to follow

00:19:17   Like that's kind of the whole point of Twitter, but I mean they're gonna be out of business in like six weeks

00:19:21   so it doesn't really matter but

00:19:23   It was strange to me that it got so much attention today during the event

00:19:26   No idea. Yeah, no idea. Anyway, um, I'm I will try my best to explain this as someone who doesn't watch video on the Apple TV

00:19:35   Apple is making a new app called TV, not TV guide or list or something just TV, which aggregates

00:19:42   content from

00:19:45   multiple apps in a single place and

00:19:48   there's a bunch of sections like your favorites, your library or for you, which in this case means

00:19:55   you can resume videos you've started watching and then paused or

00:20:00   there's some curated sections from Apple editors picking out stuff for you and all of this content comes from different apps

00:20:08   so it's like an aggregator for Apple TV content and when you click on

00:20:13   For example, like a thumbnail or Game of Thrones then you're taken to the HBO Now app. So it's like a

00:20:20   Forgive me for the use of the term like a launchpad for

00:20:25   multiple Apple TV apps and it's meant to be, I guess, a quick way to see what you

00:20:31   should be watching without having to navigate the Apple TV interface. I just

00:20:36   found it funny that the future of TV is apps and now the future of the future is

00:20:42   an app for the apps, kinda? You know? What this felt like to me is Apple Music and

00:20:51   Apple News. It's the continuation of that strategy of Apple creating a hub for stuff

00:20:59   and I know music is slightly different.

00:21:02   My question is, why is this not the main TV OS interface? Why does it need to be a separate

00:21:08   app? It just feels like the interaction model of TV OS and to an extent even the Apple Watch

00:21:15   is so based on the iPhone that Apple is not even trying to optimize for the different

00:21:22   types of devices that they make. So everything is kind of like an iPhone and then on watchOS

00:21:27   they did a bunch of updates and now on tvOS they're making an app. It seems to me like

00:21:32   this should be the main interface of tvOS because when I turn on my Apple TV, apothetically

00:21:38   because I don't, but when I turn on my Apple TV I want to see quickly what should I be

00:21:43   watching. It's like when you go to the YouTube homepage. Imagine if the YouTube homepage,

00:21:48   instead of being recommendations and a bunch of things collected from multiple places,

00:21:51   were just a list of your subscriptions. And then you need to go to a separate YouTube website

00:21:57   to see what's hot, what's trending, what you should be watching. It's like Apple is tackling

00:22:01   this problem backwards. I don't think it is a stretch to imagine a world in which this was

00:22:08   supposed to be that. Like when the Apple TV was a subscription service that you

00:22:15   paid for from Apple but they couldn't get that done for whatever reason they

00:22:20   couldn't get that done and this kind of feels like what that would have been but

00:22:26   it's not that. Like for example the icon, the TV app icon, is the same icon as the

00:22:33   TV button on the Siri remote and if I was following correctly when you press

00:22:40   that button you go to this app now and then you press it again to go to home

00:22:44   what did it do before it just takes you home okay so but it seems like now like

00:22:50   it seemed I don't know there seems to be some kind of like bolted on this of all

00:22:55   of this it's like okay if Apple wanted to make this app why did they make the

00:23:00   iTunes app because the iTunes movie app does the same thing that this does like

00:23:07   I think that this was part of the original strategy they can't they shelved

00:23:12   it they made a new home screen which had the applications and just gave the

00:23:16   applications their their little homes as it would have been and that all the

00:23:21   video content all video content was supposed to go through this TV app but

00:23:25   it couldn't do it so they made separate apps because nobody will buy into the

00:23:29   system like the providers so now they've just found some weird way to kind of do this in

00:23:35   the hopes that it will now force the vendors to actually go through it. Like you'll notice

00:23:40   Netflix is not part of this and I think that that is telling you a lot of what you want

00:23:46   to know or need to know about this product. Super super weird.

00:23:51   You are suddenly coming to the iPhone and the iPad as well and not coming this month,

00:23:56   next month but in December so again coming soon. I think the coming to iPhone

00:24:01   and iPad as well is the other indication of the fact that this was the

00:24:05   bones of the subscription service because that would have been on iOS as

00:24:09   well. Yeah I agree with you Myke it feels like a half-hearted step and

00:24:15   maybe that's because its origins or something a lot greater yeah and this is

00:24:19   just sort of like well we have this we're gonna ship it as it is and and

00:24:22   and maybe they're hoping it's like a proof of concept, right?

00:24:25   This works with the content we have,

00:24:28   and if you're in here, you know,

00:24:30   we can say that your content viewership goes up

00:24:32   after we, you know, feature you or something,

00:24:35   and then maybe Netflix will be more willing to play ball.

00:24:38   My guess is, and I have no insider information on this,

00:24:41   it's just a feeling, is that Netflix doesn't want

00:24:44   to be shown with other providers side by side,

00:24:47   like on an even playing field.

00:24:50   Like Netflix wants you to be just within their universe

00:24:53   and for whatever reason they couldn't work it out

00:24:55   to be in there.

00:24:57   - Yeah, I assume that Netflix believe correctly

00:25:01   or incorrectly that they are important enough

00:25:03   that you should be in Netflix.

00:25:04   Like Netflix's content isn't elsewhere.

00:25:06   Like you go to Netflix to watch Netflix.

00:25:09   You don't have your content mixed in with other people.

00:25:11   Like Netflix is where you get Netflix stuff, right?

00:25:14   And I think that that's, as you say,

00:25:16   like that's the reason for it.

00:25:18   And some of the other places, like, you know,

00:25:20   a lot of them, Apple, they're like related to Disney,

00:25:23   so Apple can do whatever it does there.

00:25:25   And, you know, I think that HBO are kind of coming along

00:25:28   because Apple kind of worked with them initially

00:25:31   and gave them different cuts and stuff like that.

00:25:33   So I think that there's a good relationship there.

00:25:35   And HBO probably just doesn't care,

00:25:36   they just want you to watch their stuff.

00:25:38   And Netflix cares more.

00:25:40   - Yeah, and so that's, you know, that's kind of a bummer.

00:25:44   Like, it would be nice if this thing became a hub

00:25:46   for everything that I want to watch on my Apple TV,

00:25:51   but instead, most of what I do on my Apple TV is Netflix,

00:25:57   and I think that's gonna be true,

00:25:58   I think that's true for most people.

00:25:59   - It's YouTube for me, and that will be the same thing.

00:26:01   You won't see YouTube in this either.

00:26:02   - Right, so this is gonna become just another icon

00:26:05   that I hide or I don't visit very often,

00:26:08   'cause I don't watch stuff on these other apps,

00:26:11   because, partially 'cause I don't have a cable login.

00:26:14   Like I don't pay for cable, and so a lot of this stuff

00:26:16   is built on the single sign-on stuff,

00:26:19   and you have an app based on your cable provider,

00:26:21   that is still locked off to me as a cord cutter.

00:26:25   And the TV app just changes the way that it's formatted,

00:26:28   but it doesn't actually solve any of my problems

00:26:30   with watching stuff on the Apple TV.

00:26:32   - Like this is, this thing is a brand's fighting

00:26:35   against brands to say who's got the biggest brand.

00:26:38   Right, this is what it is.

00:26:39   Apple want everyone inside of their ecosystem,

00:26:42   Netflix want everyone inside of their ecosystem,

00:26:44   and then the person who ends up losing is the consumer

00:26:47   because everyone's brand's more important than the other.

00:26:50   That's my feeling about this.

00:26:51   I'm more upset maybe than I should be,

00:26:53   but I just find it all a bit stupid.

00:26:55   - No, no, this is, it's disappointing to me.

00:26:57   I mean, I want them to push this harder

00:27:00   and they just haven't been able to make up the ground yet.

00:27:03   So for me, it doesn't really change

00:27:04   how I'm gonna use my Apple TV.

00:27:05   It's not gonna dramatically increase my usage of it.

00:27:08   So it's just kind of a different approach

00:27:11   that is not gonna, it's not really gonna change my world.

00:27:14   - Now I already have the Apple TV the way that it is.

00:27:17   I don't need it to be like this.

00:27:19   You know, I don't need this.

00:27:20   Like you already launched it the way that it is,

00:27:23   and it works fine for me.

00:27:24   - And it's not gonna make Federico fire his up anymore.

00:27:26   - No, no, not really.

00:27:27   - His is still, you know, like leveling out a table,

00:27:29   I think, in his apartment.

00:27:30   Not even plugged in anymore.

00:27:33   - No, so I wanted to tell you, I tried to use it last week.

00:27:37   Fun experience, I wanted to watch some Brooklyn Nine-Nine

00:27:40   on my Apple TV. Love the show. Yeah. And so I opened this video player that I got on iOS

00:27:48   and I assume I just need to tap the AirPlay icon. So I tap the AirPlay icon, select Apple

00:27:53   TV and what happens next may surprise you because just the audio starts playing on the

00:28:03   Apple TV. No video. I was like, you know what? I just, I don't have time for this. I just

00:28:08   send it to my Chromecast and it was okay. So yeah.

00:28:14   Just while we're just talking about Chromecast, like super super quick follow-up, what about

00:28:18   Google's Trojan horse of the home app? Like Chromecast app is now the Google Home app,

00:28:23   like buy a Google Home! Such a pretty icon!

00:28:26   It was just such a strange thing to do! Yeah I know but the icon is pretty, Myke.

00:28:31   Oh well that's alright then. Yeah.

00:28:34   Alright should we take a break and then get into the main event?

00:28:38   That's good.

00:28:39   Okay.

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00:31:34   support of this show and Relay FM. So we got a Mac today. Oh like two and a half Macs but yes.

00:31:43   One Mac. They... can we just have a minute here? Yeah. Can I just share something with you guys?

00:31:52   - Yes.

00:31:53   - Okay.

00:31:53   - I consider myself some sort of Apple historian, right?

00:31:58   I got a studio full of old Macs,

00:32:02   write about them, have a YouTube channel.

00:32:04   I did not expect Apple to go this route.

00:32:06   Apple does not look back.

00:32:08   You know, they did the 40 years in 40 seconds thing

00:32:11   last year, which was supposed to be the last town hall event

00:32:14   but they were again today, I guess,

00:32:16   because they didn't expect this event to be in the fall.

00:32:20   But they started this event by talking about

00:32:23   the first Apple notebook, which was in October 1991,

00:32:27   PowerBook 100, 140, and 170 were the three options.

00:32:31   They just discount the Macintosh portable.

00:32:33   If you haven't ever seen a picture of that,

00:32:35   go look it up on Wikipedia.

00:32:36   It is crazy.

00:32:37   But they kept circling back to this.

00:32:42   Like 25 years since the notebook,

00:32:44   he, Tim pointed out that it was the first keyboard forward

00:32:48   design with a trackball below the keyboard

00:32:50   the palm rest. It was very strange. At the end, it was like, you know, one year of compute

00:32:55   time on the PowerBook 170 is done in like five seconds on the new MacBook Pro. Very

00:33:00   strange couching of all this stuff.

00:33:03   Why did they do this, do you think? Was it just because the timing happened to meet up?

00:33:08   I guess. Or maybe they wanted... I don't know. Do you compare it with the MacBook Pro that

00:33:15   Last updated a year and a half ago, but really like three years ago

00:33:19   Like I don't know maybe they don't want to draw the tension that it's been so long. So they just like do something really

00:33:24   Really oddball. It was just unusual. I guess is my only point. I don't know why they did it but not a move you see very often

00:33:32   Yeah from Apple, did you know this you haven't mentioned this did you know it was 25 years since the first Apple notebook?

00:33:40   No, you didn't know

00:33:41   We got a steppy game up man

00:33:44   They beat this is your beat it is well they did like a totally awesome

00:33:49   Reveal video with like Macbooks flying through the air. It's basically if Apple said to you you can direct a video

00:33:57   That's the video you would make

00:33:59   Right like a hundred percent. That was it. It was just lots of old Macs flying around

00:34:03   Just give me the budget and I'll make the old Macs fly around

00:34:08   And the keys to your storage and I go there and shoot a video

00:34:12   Give me a get me a crew here and I'll make a video like that. I can certainly picture you doing that Steven

00:34:18   Cool just saying if you want to change careers at some point, you know, there's a position open obviously

00:34:25   I mean you get to work every couple of years, but

00:34:28   It's maybe you can make a pretty cool video. I

00:34:31   Guess I mean if you know it is cool, but it was just unexpected

00:34:38   expected. So real quick, I'm just gonna blast through like the high-level

00:34:44   tech stuff and then we can get into what's the most interesting. Two new

00:34:48   models MacBook Pro 13 inch and 15 inch they're both as you would expect lighter

00:34:52   and thinner they clock in at three pounds and four pounds. They come in

00:34:56   silver and space gray none of your beloved rose gold or gold. No glowing

00:35:03   logo on the lid so it's like the MacBook with the stainless steel you know iOS

00:35:07   like Apple in the back. MacBook style keyboard. Apple promise more travel but

00:35:13   from the hands-on that we've seen so far it seems like it kind of feels more like

00:35:17   the MacBook keyboard than the external Magic keyboard which I have in front of

00:35:20   me now that I really like. 15s are all quad-core i7 you can go up to 2 terabytes

00:35:27   SSD which is super fancy and super awesome and super expensive. All of the

00:35:34   legacy ports are gone you have four Thunderbolt 3 ports and those ports can

00:35:39   be any four of them can be used for power, Thunderbolt 3, USB-C, DisplayPort,

00:35:44   VGA, DVI, HDMI or Ethernet and I guess like Thunderbolt 2 and USB 3 so you

00:35:51   can adapt almost anything out of these things. The headphone jack is still there

00:35:55   screen picked up the P3 wide color gamut, speakers are louder, the 4-step trackpad

00:36:02   is bigger, 10 hours of battery life. I mean the things that we expected all came true

00:36:08   right there's no I don't think there's any real surprises in the hardware other than

00:36:12   the touch bar stuff which we'll get to but like the basic hardware like what this MacBook

00:36:15   Pro is I think it's pretty much in line with what we were expecting. I think it's smaller

00:36:20   than we thought it was gonna be like I don't really know how much I thought about the fact

00:36:25   that this thing was gonna be like 25% smaller.

00:36:29   - Yeah. - Which is awesome.

00:36:32   - Yeah, it's smaller like width and depth wise,

00:36:34   the whole thing is tighter.

00:36:35   The 13 inch MacBook Pro is now smaller in like size

00:36:40   on your desk than the 13 inch MacBook Air,

00:36:43   which we're gonna get to the Air in a little while,

00:36:45   but there's lots of like weird overlapping stuff

00:36:48   going on now.

00:36:49   The I/O is, you know, I wrote this thing last week,

00:36:55   kind of complaining about this new world.

00:36:58   Every time we do this, it means you have to adapt

00:37:00   everything for a while or buy a bunch of new cables.

00:37:03   And I tweeted a thing about like $180 of adapters

00:37:05   in a shopping cart at Apple.com.

00:37:07   Gets you all the stuff you used to have.

00:37:09   But it is the cost of progress,

00:37:12   and Thunderbolt 3 and USB-C on the same port

00:37:16   is really awesome, and it's great that you can use

00:37:18   any four of them for power or any of the other things

00:37:22   you need, like how often you would put a MacBook Pro down,

00:37:26   the power would be like on the wrong side

00:37:28   and the cable not being long enough, all that's gone.

00:37:30   But it does come at a cost, it comes with a real cost

00:37:33   if you need adapters and dongles,

00:37:35   but things like MagSafe for now are now gone.

00:37:37   And I don't know about the two of you,

00:37:39   but MagSafe has totally saved notebooks for me

00:37:42   over the last decade.

00:37:44   You're having a computer on a table and a kid walks by,

00:37:47   or the dog runs by and pulls the cable,

00:37:51   and the cable pops off and the MacBook stays in place.

00:37:54   That is gone.

00:37:55   Like someone trips over your USB-C power cable

00:37:58   on a MacBook Pro, it is going to come off the table.

00:38:01   And that's something you have to,

00:38:02   it's not a big deal, it's not a deal breaker, surely,

00:38:05   but it's something that's different.

00:38:06   It's something worth noticing if you were like me,

00:38:10   I thought MagSafe was brilliant.

00:38:11   It was like one of the smartest things they added

00:38:13   to the Mac notebook line.

00:38:15   And now it's gone.

00:38:17   But you get the flexibility.

00:38:18   - The thing that worries me most about

00:38:20   the loss of magsafe is I don't know how many times it saved me.

00:38:24   So like, I know that like basically every Apple laptop that I have ever

00:38:29   owned has had magsafe on it.

00:38:31   And I wonder how quickly I will destroy a laptop.

00:38:37   Right?

00:38:39   Like, because I'm, I am 100% used to not caring about the power cable.

00:38:45   Like I pick up the laptop while it's charging and walk away with it.

00:38:50   Right, these are just the things that I'm used to doing and I wonder how long that's

00:38:55   gonna last for me.

00:38:56   - How long it takes.

00:38:57   It's gonna be bad.

00:38:58   - Yeah.

00:38:59   - The other thing that's sort of notable about the I/O setup on this is that they are, in

00:39:11   a lot of their demo stuff, like kind of giving you examples of what you can do, they're pushing

00:39:16   the external flexibility and capability a lot more than they ever have. So when the

00:39:22   trash can Mac Pro was announced 28 years ago, they were like, "Hey, you know, there's no

00:39:27   expansion cards, right? Like we all complained about it. You can't put new cards into the

00:39:33   machine." They said, "Oh, you can do it all externally." And I don't think that ever really

00:39:36   took off for the Mac Pro. You can get some like Thunderbolt and PCI chassis and stuff,

00:39:41   but I don't think it ever really took off the way Apple wanted. And they're here again

00:39:45   being the same drone. Not with PCI cards but they had an example of like hooking up to

00:39:49   this nice external display and some RAID arrays and like having all this stuff

00:39:53   that you can mount and because these four ports are identical and you can do

00:39:57   anything with any of them it is truly probably the most flexible MacBook Pro

00:40:02   they've ever shipped from an I/O perspective and the most powerful like

00:40:05   Thunderbolt 3 is ridiculous and USB-C is really nice and flexible but it comes

00:40:10   with these trade-offs and you have to either buy a bunch of adapters or buy a

00:40:14   a bunch of new cables or understand that this is gonna be a transition and you're going

00:40:20   to need to maybe change some things in your setup to accommodate this new computer.

00:40:25   But I think at the end of the day, once we're through that transition, this is a good direction.

00:40:29   The four ports are identical, that you can do anything you want to with any of them.

00:40:33   That you have all these options, I think is pretty nice.

00:40:37   We just have to get through this transition and pain period of buying a bunch of stuff

00:40:41   again that you've already owned.

00:40:43   I feel like I'm doing that more and more frequently.

00:40:46   Like the frequency at which things are changing over, like the march of progress is getting

00:40:52   quicker.

00:40:54   Maybe I'm just getting older.

00:40:55   So it feels that way.

00:40:56   Well, I mean we had, when they added mini-display port, you know, it was just for display stuff

00:41:03   and you could adapt VGA DVI out of it.

00:41:06   But really since Thunderbolt 1 showed up, which was on that same port like it is now,

00:41:12   Things have really been pretty steady now for several years and the MacBook 1/Macbook

00:41:19   Adorable ushered in this era but this is even more complicated because the MacBook 1 only

00:41:27   has USB-C. So the Thunderbolt 3 stuff doesn't apply to that computer even though the port

00:41:34   on the side of the machine looks the same and the plug in your hand is the same.

00:41:38   And that's not ideal, and I would love if the MacBook

00:41:42   would gain Thunderbolt 3, but the Core M chips

00:41:44   that they use doesn't support Thunderbolt.

00:41:46   So they're kind of stuck there.

00:41:48   But it is like, if you have a MacBook in another machine,

00:41:52   you may end up in a situation where you can't do

00:41:54   everything you want to do because that MacBook

00:41:55   doesn't have Thunderbolt.

00:41:56   So it's something, again, you have to think about

00:41:58   a little bit more than in the past,

00:41:59   when everything was Firewire 800 and USB 2,

00:42:02   it's like, yeah, it works or it doesn't.

00:42:03   And now there's another layer of complication.

00:42:06   Probably worth it, 'cause the speed is so much greater

00:42:08   flexibility is so nice but it is something to consider when buying a new machine or changing

00:42:13   something in your setup like what does this work with what does it not work with what

00:42:18   am I gonna have to change out to make this possible.

00:42:20   Can we talk about touch bar?

00:42:23   Please.

00:42:24   So I think we knew a lot of what the touch bar was going to be but there are you know

00:42:31   the devil is in the details with these things and I gotta say I think the details are pretty

00:42:37   cool I think this is a good-looking thing we do we know what type of display

00:42:41   it is I saw someone saying it's a knowledge display I think they asked in

00:42:46   the demo room and I saw someone on Twitter say by the way it's a knowledge

00:42:49   display okay that makes a lot of sense to me I think this is the Apple watch

00:42:54   and this it's like Apple's march towards an OLED iPhone like this is how they're

00:42:59   getting used to what this technology is all about anyhow I think it looks

00:43:04   awesome like watching the Final Cut Pro demos and just all the little things

00:43:12   that are happening like the emoji, the quick type, answering a call like a

00:43:17   FaceTime call, it all looked really cool to me. I think that it's a very exciting

00:43:22   thing that I look forward to this type of stuff reaching out across the line a

00:43:27   little bit more right like I think that this is a an interesting piece of

00:43:31   technology that Apple have made that really starts to bridge the gap between

00:43:37   iOS and macOS. Federico before I ape your point that I saw you tweet earlier

00:43:43   you should just say it about what this enables.

00:43:47   I mean it's a very clever, I think it's very clever way of bringing some iOS

00:43:53   features and namely the quick type stuff from iOS 10 to macOS without having to

00:43:59   sort of make a hybrid computer where people have to touch the screen, you're

00:44:03   effectively making a separate screen for a subset of iOS features such as word

00:44:09   suggestions or you know like an enhancement of the shortcut bar that you

00:44:14   get on the iPad with these custom buttons that change depending on the active app.

00:44:17   Well this is a basically a glorified quick type and shortcut bar rolled into

00:44:23   one mixed with some system shortcuts and some of the previous functionality from

00:44:28   the function key. I think it's very clever. I think it looks great and I would love to

00:44:33   have the touch bar in Apple accessories such as the Magic Keyboard or my dream right now

00:44:40   in the Smart Keyboard for the iPad Pro. I don't know if there's enough space. Certainly

00:44:45   it could be powered by the iPad Pro I guess but maybe you know it requires too much hardware

00:44:50   at this point. I think it's very clever. I think it looks great. I saw pictures of the

00:44:56   close-up photos of the touch bar. I think the black levels look fantastic and it

00:45:01   seems to have a slightly matte finish which I think looks really really cool.

00:45:05   This is part of the joy of OLED. I have no time today to talk about the Pixel

00:45:12   but there obviously is an OLED screen and I've been using a Twitter app which

00:45:17   has an OLED theme and it's just the purest black. Like it is the darkest dark

00:45:24   mode I've ever used. I really love the way that OLED screens look like that. I mean,

00:45:32   I definitely miss the wide colour gamut stuff because I think that's beautiful, but those

00:45:37   black levels that you can get from OLED, it really is incredible. And it just looks like

00:45:43   the screen's off. Like the screen's off, but there's some text on it. It's very interesting.

00:45:48   And that's how this looks, right? Like, these look like buttons on a black background because

00:45:53   the background is perfectly black.

00:45:55   It's really, really good looking.

00:45:57   - The only thing I would counter that with,

00:45:59   some of the pictures,

00:46:00   I put a link to MacRumors in the notes,

00:46:03   the Touch ID sensor doesn't look as integrated

00:46:07   into the design as I had hoped it would be.

00:46:09   Like it's not a seamless cover glass,

00:46:11   like the Touch ID is like a cutout next to it.

00:46:13   And on the other end,

00:46:15   it seems like there's some blank space

00:46:19   to kind of make it symmetrical, if you will.

00:46:22   So that's something that'll improve with time, I think.

00:46:25   Yeah, it doesn't look bad necessarily,

00:46:27   but it's like, oh, that's a different thing

00:46:29   kind of nestled in there next to it.

00:46:31   But they started this by talking about

00:46:35   the function key itself, and they made this joke

00:46:37   about this console to talk to mainframes

00:46:40   back in the '60s and '70s, real Dr. Drang type stuff.

00:46:43   And it was very similar to how they justified

00:46:47   getting rid of the iPhone headphone jack

00:46:50   of like this has been around forever,

00:46:52   we don't need it anymore.

00:46:53   He did not use the word courage, thank goodness,

00:46:56   but it was kind of a similar approach.

00:46:58   And the whole thing is powered by

00:47:01   what they're calling the T1 chip.

00:47:03   So we have the A series, the S series in the watch,

00:47:06   the W series in the headphones,

00:47:07   and now the T series in the MacBook Pro touch bar.

00:47:11   My sort of vague understanding is this is more or less

00:47:15   based on the S1 chip that we saw on the watch,

00:47:20   that it's a very self-contained system.

00:47:22   They're using it to get the secure enclave

00:47:25   for Touch ID and Apple Pay into the MacBook Pro.

00:47:28   'Cause that stuff is all ARM specific.

00:47:32   You know, Intel itself is not building a Skylake processor

00:47:35   with a secure enclave that Apple wants to use, right?

00:47:37   This is Apple's own thing.

00:47:39   So it's kind of a little computer inside your MacBook Pro

00:47:42   and it has this little screen that it has.

00:47:44   Like, it's a separate system that macOS can talk to.

00:47:48   but it executes its own code, best I can tell,

00:47:52   and from what I've read, it is a system within your system.

00:47:56   And that's pretty interesting.

00:47:58   In a world where we don't have ARM Macs,

00:48:03   it's kind of the only way to go,

00:48:04   because Intel's not gonna build this for them,

00:48:05   and this is something that Apple can do

00:48:09   with its silicon team that it makes perfect sense

00:48:11   for them to do internally, right?

00:48:13   We'll take the Intel chipset to power everything,

00:48:16   and then we'll build this little sidecar thing

00:48:18   for the touch bar, we'll call it the T1,

00:48:20   and the two don't have to intermix.

00:48:23   So I find that really fascinating

00:48:25   from the nerd perspective.

00:48:26   - So is the T1 powering the touch bar?

00:48:29   I thought it was just powering the touch ID in the Enclave.

00:48:33   - My understanding is it, I mean, this is day one,

00:48:37   my understanding is that it powers the touch bar as well,

00:48:41   that it at least sits in between macOS and the touch bar.

00:48:45   and I think we will learn more in the coming days,

00:48:47   but my understanding right now is that that's the case.

00:48:50   But again, it's day one.

00:48:51   They spent a ton of time in this event demoing it,

00:48:55   of like how it would work.

00:48:56   And it seems like this touch bar has really

00:49:00   kind of two main modes, if you will.

00:49:04   You have, what it does varies on application.

00:49:09   And an application can put buttons on the touch bar,

00:49:13   So they showed things like Photoshop and Finder,

00:49:16   which they called a power user app,

00:49:17   which really just made me really hurt inside.

00:49:20   (laughing)

00:49:21   - I missed that.

00:49:23   - Yeah, they're like, "Let's look at a power application.

00:49:24   "Let's start with Finder."

00:49:25   It's like, "Oh my God, what are you doing?"

00:49:27   And you can put buttons down there

00:49:30   and it'll interact with what's on your screen,

00:49:32   which is cool.

00:49:33   But it also has a mode where a app can put a custom UI there.

00:49:38   And so my favorite example is they showed Photoshop

00:49:41   and the demo where she had an image up she was working on

00:49:46   and she had the color picker on the touch bar

00:49:49   and she could scrub her finger over it and pick a color

00:49:53   and without having to use like one of the 10 million palettes

00:49:56   in Photoshop and it was a custom UI

00:49:58   like it just had this band of color

00:50:00   and she was picking from.

00:50:01   - I like that she was saying that it was possible

00:50:04   to edit in full screen without any UI

00:50:10   And it's like, yeah, I guess you can, right?

00:50:12   Super cool.

00:50:13   They showed photos.app with some sliders and some dials.

00:50:18   They showed Final Cut Pro, which is getting a big update

00:50:21   to support all of this, with basically a mini timeline

00:50:25   there.

00:50:27   You could scrub over your timeline

00:50:28   or you could apply different effects.

00:50:30   So this thing can surface bits of the UI that may be hidden.

00:50:33   Something like Photoshop, it's got a billion things it can do.

00:50:37   It can surface content aware options for you.

00:50:40   Pull things out of menus and get them

00:50:42   underneath your fingertips.

00:50:43   Or an app can display its own UI with whatever it needs to do.

00:50:46   Yeah, and third parties are able to.

00:50:48   The HIG has updated today to have

00:50:50   all of the documentation necessary for how

00:50:54   these things should operate.

00:50:56   Right.

00:50:57   So that all seems to work much better

00:51:01   than I kind of feared it might.

00:51:02   Now, I still have questions about how

00:51:03   distracting it's going to be if you're switching between apps

00:51:05   and the stuff's changing the corner of your eye

00:51:07   all the time.

00:51:08   - I was wondering about this,

00:51:09   'cause I've seen a lot of people say this.

00:51:12   I guess the majority of the UI will change

00:51:14   when you're actually switching applications

00:51:17   where there's things moving everywhere, right?

00:51:20   Like when you switch an application,

00:51:22   what's in front of your eyes has just changed.

00:51:24   I don't think it would be that distracting.

00:51:26   If the touch bar kept like cycling through things

00:51:29   whilst you've got an application open,

00:51:31   then it's gonna distract your peripheral vision.

00:51:33   But I think if you're switching application,

00:51:36   it's not going to distract you because your eyes are

00:51:39   seeing lots of stuff move.

00:51:40   Yeah, that's a good point.

00:51:42   But if you're in Photoshop, things

00:51:43   could be changing all the time.

00:51:46   You can go back to the standard function keys

00:51:48   by pushing the function button on the keyboard.

00:51:50   So you get your normal brightness and volume

00:51:53   controllers, your mission control stuff.

00:51:55   I love that they have sliders for those as well.

00:51:57   I do too.

00:51:58   Because you don't need buttons.

00:52:00   This is something Jason mentioned.

00:52:01   When we were in Memphis, we were talking about this

00:52:03   because the rumors were just saying, it's like, why don't they just have sliders now?

00:52:06   And it makes way more sense, like, rather than these buttons. And I did like what the,

00:52:10   you know, a lot of this stuff can be like, you know, we always talk about how does Apple

00:52:14   tell the story? And I liked how Phil was saying, it was like, the function buttons have always

00:52:18   existed. Nobody needs them anymore. So we've just turned them into other things. And it's

00:52:24   like, why, why should the volume be up and down increments from a hardware button? It

00:52:33   makes way more sense to have more fine-grain control over a slider like I do on iOS.

00:52:39   Sure. I think it's a more natural gesture.

00:52:44   It also--there's kind of another mode where--or it's not really the way to say it--

00:52:51   in the app mode, where an app is projecting UI onto this thing,

00:52:55   there's something that is called the control strip, which there'll be a link in the show notes.

00:52:58   that's a very old name, old Mac users will know that name from the classic Mac OS.

00:53:02   But the Control Strip takes some of your system functions. So best I can tell it

00:53:08   takes your brightness and volume and Siri. I think that's kind of the default

00:53:15   four and you can scrub back and forth in there. So it's like system stuff that's

00:53:21   always present. So even if you're in photos and you're scrubbing through an

00:53:27   album you always have brightness and volume available to you. I think that's

00:53:30   when the escape key pops up as well. Yes the escape key is also in this view so

00:53:34   that that makes a lot of sense to me the things that we talked about it when

00:53:37   these rumors broke that like I kind of want brightness and volume all the time

00:53:41   and this is a way to have that and also have this smart stuff so I think they've

00:53:48   made the right compromises I want to see how it works in practice of course. But

00:53:51   apps can hide them right like you can have them pushed off to the side. Yeah

00:53:56   and then I think you can bring them back in if you want them. So there'll be some

00:53:59   learning there. I don't know how strictly they're going to force the

00:54:03   HIG on this. It may be that some apps do a poor job at it than others, but I think

00:54:08   there will be some sort of common use that gels and that good Mac

00:54:12   apps will do that. Something that I thought was really cool was the fact

00:54:16   that you can customize it. When you're in Finder and stuff you're able

00:54:21   to customize the buttons so you can drag and drop new ones onto the bar, depending

00:54:26   on the types of things that you need.

00:54:28   So you can finally get rid of Apex, per se.

00:54:31   (laughing)

00:54:34   I just thought that was really cool,

00:54:35   'cause it's like, yes, of course you can do that.

00:54:37   And yeah, I thought it was really sweet.

00:54:40   'Cause it's like, now, in many applications,

00:54:43   I can have two toolbars.

00:54:44   I can have a toolbar on the screen,

00:54:45   I can have a toolbar in the app,

00:54:46   and I get like double the functions.

00:54:48   Like, thinking about logic,

00:54:50   you know, like I have a bunch of buttons in logic

00:54:52   which are easy to get to,

00:54:53   I can now double the amount of buttons

00:54:55   I can have available. Right, which didn't get any stage time today, just Final Cut did.

00:54:59   Womp womp. Yeah, it'll get there. So yeah, it seems like from what I saw today,

00:55:05   I'm impressed and I think that they have thought through all the problems that I

00:55:13   could think of at least and I'm sure they've just a lot of problems that I didn't think of.

00:55:16   It seems like it makes sense, it seems like it's gonna be a consistent experience. I do

00:55:21   think there'll be a funny thing that happens if people who buy these machines

00:55:24   will like do something and then reach up and touch the screen itself like it just

00:55:28   seems like a very natural accident it's gonna break your brain yeah something we

00:55:32   didn't mention fast user switching via touch ID the Mac gets a feature before

00:55:36   iOS does I mean the Mac has had fast user switching for like a decade

00:55:42   someone said that on Twitter like oh fast user switching came to the Mac it's

00:55:45   like no it's been there a long time I'm not saying that fast use that's user

00:55:48   switching is new it's the fact that you can change user with the use of the

00:55:52   fingerprint right which is how I would assume they would that would be a smart

00:55:55   way to do it on the iPad but right now the fast user switching on like the

00:56:01   educational realm iPad stuff is a little a little weird but the thing is though

00:56:06   like whilst this is cool the laptops the wrong product for that how many people

00:56:10   share laptops I think I mean I think they did it because the Mac already had

00:56:13   fast user switching and I'm sure it wasn't a big deal to add you may as well

00:56:17   do it because you can but like... Right and it's a sweet demo right like it's a

00:56:23   sweet demo and I think people I mean people share iPads people share laptops

00:56:26   for schools that you know end up with MacBook Pros that aren't mini they'll

00:56:32   appreciate it I think I mean like I have a user on my wife's MacBook and she has

00:56:36   a user on my computer there's not a lot of stuff in that user but like sometimes

00:56:40   you sit down and you just you know want your synced Safari bookmarks but I think

00:56:44   it's cool the demo of that was awesome like he called Phil Schiller up from the

00:56:48   crowd like Kirk Federighi was on fire day could we just talk about how he

00:56:51   ripped the black fabric off the MacBook Pros like he was a magician was that

00:56:55   awesome Federighi is the best in the world yes or everything so he he calls

00:57:01   for Schiller and says hey you know we share this Mac and Schiller just walked

00:57:04   over and touched it and they logged into Phil's user like it was great great demo

00:57:08   so all in all thumbs up from me I think I want to spend some time with it but I

00:57:13   I think they sold it really well on stage.

00:57:17   I think the demos they drove were a really wide range.

00:57:22   So you had Final Cut Pro, you had Photoshop,

00:57:23   you had DJ Pro, which I haven't even talked about,

00:57:26   like layering and fading music, like sweet, sweet demo.

00:57:31   I think they did a good job at showing this

00:57:34   in a bunch of different contexts.

00:57:36   And so I'm excited to see what developers do with it.

00:57:38   It still is only on the MacBook Pro, right?

00:57:41   The Magic Keyboard doesn't have it,

00:57:42   so you don't have it on the iMac or any other desktop

00:57:45   you're foolish enough to buy right now.

00:57:47   The MacBook doesn't have it.

00:57:49   What's left of the MacBook Air line doesn't have it.

00:57:51   It's just the MacBook Pro.

00:57:52   I assume it will spread.

00:57:54   I have questions about can they do it

00:57:55   in a Bluetooth keyboard for an iMac,

00:57:57   but assuming they get that worked out,

00:58:00   I think that the adoption of this will be good now,

00:58:03   but I think as it expands across the Mac line,

00:58:05   hopefully the adoption will only go up

00:58:06   and this will become part of what using a Mac is about.

00:58:11   Like right now it's kind of an add-on for the MacBook Pro.

00:58:13   - When they eventually put it out in that keyboard,

00:58:16   it's gonna be the heaviest keyboard in the world.

00:58:19   'Cause they will have to make the entire thing a battery.

00:58:21   Right?

00:58:22   Because it's powering a screen.

00:58:23   - It is now.

00:58:24   - Really?

00:58:25   - Yeah, I mean, I think now if you open one up,

00:58:27   it's a lot of battery in there.

00:58:28   I mean, the Magic Keyboard,

00:58:30   I mean, I've got a Magic Keyboard 2, I've got one.

00:58:32   The battery lasts for like months.

00:58:34   I mean, it is nutty.

00:58:35   So I think, I mean, they're not gonna make any taller.

00:58:39   I think they're gonna make it shorter.

00:58:41   but it's one of those things that hopefully spreads.

00:58:45   - So pricing.

00:58:50   This is where things start to get weird

00:58:55   because at the pricing section of the,

00:58:58   I was gonna call it show, we'll call it a show,

00:59:00   they introduced another computer.

00:59:02   By the way, here is, you know,

00:59:05   we've just spent like an hour talking about the touch bar.

00:59:08   Here's a MacBook Pro without one because it makes it cheaper.

00:59:11   Weird, right?

00:59:12   It's weird.

00:59:13   - Yeah.

00:59:14   So let's start at the bottom and work our way up.

00:59:17   And then I wanna talk about what happened

00:59:18   worldwide as well.

00:59:20   So the 11-inch MacBook Air is gone, dead,

00:59:23   no longer for sale.

00:59:25   There are two 13-inch MacBook Air models,

00:59:28   999 and 1199.

00:59:31   Still for sale.

00:59:32   It's the MacBook Air you could buy yesterday.

00:59:33   It didn't even get a force touch track pad.

00:59:35   It's the same MacBook Air that's been for sale

00:59:36   for a year and a half or so.

00:59:39   No change whatsoever.

00:59:41   The 12 inch MacBook is the same as it was,

00:59:45   1299 and 1599, so still too expensive

00:59:49   to completely push out the MacBook Air.

00:59:52   I firmly believe the MacBook Airs only exist today

00:59:56   to hit a price point.

00:59:58   That they can't get the MacBook down to 999,

01:00:01   so the Air lives another day.

01:00:05   You then move into the MacBook Pros.

01:00:07   They are still selling what I have dubbed

01:00:09   the classic MacBook Pro,

01:00:10   which the Retina MacBook Pro you could buy yesterday.

01:00:13   So no touch bar, thicker, you know.

01:00:15   - Comes in one color.

01:00:18   - One color, the older style keyboard.

01:00:21   That is still for sale in the 13 and the 15.

01:00:25   So $12.99 and $19.99.

01:00:28   And then you get to the machine,

01:00:29   Myke, you were talking about for $14.99,

01:00:31   you can get a 13 inch MacBook Pro with the new design,

01:00:34   The new display, you can get it in space gray.

01:00:37   It comes with two Thunderbolt 3 ports, so not four,

01:00:40   only two ports and no touch bar and no touch ID.

01:00:43   So it has the hardware function keys like before.

01:00:46   This is the machine that I don't,

01:00:49   I understand why it's there, it's again, it's price.

01:00:52   Because now the cheapest MacBook Pro you can get otherwise

01:00:55   is $1799, which is more than it used to be.

01:00:58   These touch bar machines are more,

01:01:00   several hundred dollars more expensive

01:01:02   the counterparts they replace. But this machine this 1499 MacBook Pro is a weird

01:01:11   weird machine that it's it's has the new design but doesn't have the hallmark

01:01:17   feature of the new design. This is a machine that I firmly believe will exist

01:01:22   for one generation maybe two I don't think this is a long-term product for Apple I

01:01:26   think this is a oh these are too expensive we can't start the MacBook Pro

01:01:30   line at $1,800 we need something in the middle and I think people will buy this

01:01:36   machine we're gonna get to in a minute I'm considering this machine amongst my

01:01:40   many options but it's something that is got to be temporary because it it just

01:01:47   strips out all the cool new stuff and it's kind of a crummy machine the two

01:01:52   ports the keyboard that some people may not like it's just hanging out of that a

01:01:56   a $1500 range, purely for a price.

01:01:59   And then you get super expensive in a hurry.

01:02:02   $1799, $1999, $2400 gets you the 15 inch.

01:02:07   I saw somewhere you can max one out.

01:02:08   Like it's well over $3000 in the United States,

01:02:13   close to four if not over four.

01:02:14   Super expensive machine still.

01:02:16   And it's just a lot of price points.

01:02:18   You look at these in a graph,

01:02:20   there's like a machine every one or $200.

01:02:23   And that's something that Tim Cook's Apple is a big fan of.

01:02:26   I mean, it's similar to the iPad.

01:02:28   - If you max out the 15 inch, you can get to $4,299.

01:02:32   - Woo, that's a bunch of money.

01:02:35   - That's a lot of money.

01:02:37   - So what happened in your neck of the woods

01:02:40   with pricing, Myke?

01:02:41   - Everything went up.

01:02:42   All Macs went up, every single one of them,

01:02:47   which is upsetting.

01:02:50   For example, the Mac Pro went up by 500 pounds.

01:02:55   The Mac Mini went from $399 to $479.

01:03:00   The 4K iMac went from $1199 to $1449.

01:03:05   The iMac 5K went from $1449 to $1749.

01:03:09   And the MacBooks went from, I think it was $1049 to $1249

01:03:14   at the base.

01:03:16   They just put it all up.

01:03:17   And I know why they've done it,

01:03:18   currency fluctuations and that kind of stuff.

01:03:21   But there is a part of me that thinks

01:03:23   putting up the computers that they didn't update now is a little bit unacceptable, especially

01:03:29   the Mac Pro. You should have just not done that one or the Mac Mini, right? If you're

01:03:36   not making enough on those by now, then you know, you shouldn't have done it. It went

01:03:40   up because the exchange rate is different, the economy is very different in Europe now

01:03:44   post Brexit. That's why all this has happened. But it's a real shame that you could have,

01:03:50   I could have woke up this morning and bought a Mac and then it's multiple hundreds of pounds

01:03:55   more expensive a few hours later.

01:03:59   It's just an unfortunate thing that's happened.

01:04:01   They should have just put all these prices up at the same time whenever they were ever

01:04:04   going to do it because the iOS devices this has already happened to.

01:04:08   Yeah, I mean clearly they just used the opportunity when they were using the machine just to refresh

01:04:14   the entire store.

01:04:15   But I agree with you especially on the Mac Pro that's pretty terrible.

01:04:20   and the Mac Pro of course didn't get an update.

01:04:24   I think the consensus now is the next Xeon's

01:04:27   gonna be ready in the spring.

01:04:28   Maybe we'll see a Mac Pro in the spring or at WVDC.

01:04:31   At this point, if it hasn't passed it already,

01:04:35   it's gotta be getting close,

01:04:36   in which if you bought AppleCare on your Mac Pro

01:04:40   and you bought it early,

01:04:41   that AppleCare is like ending pretty soon.

01:04:44   And that's, with no update, it's just really pathetic.

01:04:47   But the Mac Mini didn't get an update

01:04:49   and the iMac didn't get an update either.

01:04:51   And I really figured, even if it didn't get press,

01:04:54   that those two machines were to at least

01:04:57   get Thunderbolt 3 in USB-C.

01:05:00   And there was a late breaking room

01:05:02   where the iMac wasn't ready for whatever reason, who knows.

01:05:07   And the Mac Mini hadn't been updated in so long,

01:05:10   it seems like it's really end of life.

01:05:12   But it's still for sale, you can still buy it.

01:05:14   But the chipset they would put in the Mac Mini is out.

01:05:18   Like they could have done it, there's room in it,

01:05:21   clearly they're not gonna redesign it.

01:05:24   A spec bump there would have been really appreciated,

01:05:26   but they continue to sit.

01:05:28   This is the first time since they've gone retina

01:05:30   that the iMac didn't get a yearly update.

01:05:31   They did 2014 and 2015 a year apart,

01:05:34   so maybe this will be in the spring or WBC at some point.

01:05:38   So that's still okay, but the Mac Mini and the Mac Pro,

01:05:41   like, if you're in the market for a desktop Mac,

01:05:44   the only one that's remotely okay to buy is the iMac,

01:05:47   and even that's probably not a great idea

01:05:49   unless you get refurbished because of the price.

01:05:52   And today was just about notebooks

01:05:54   and really just about one notebook.

01:05:55   And I think it left a lot of people feeling,

01:05:58   including me, that the desktop line just,

01:06:01   like we already had the sense that it wasn't important

01:06:02   and it really feels downplayed now.

01:06:04   Like if you're in the market for a Mac,

01:06:07   unless you wanted to spend a lot of money on a notebook,

01:06:11   your options today are basically the same as they were.

01:06:14   Like you can get a MacBook Air for the same price,

01:06:16   and get a MacBook for the same price,

01:06:18   or you can get a desktop that missed another update,

01:06:21   that made another event without an update.

01:06:24   - I was not expecting us to finish this year

01:06:26   without any of those Macs being updated,

01:06:29   the Mini, the Pro, or the iMac.

01:06:31   - Me neither, and it's, you know,

01:06:34   the Mac Buyer's Guide is still mostly red

01:06:37   because these machines didn't get an update,

01:06:39   and that's a big bummer, and you know,

01:06:42   I like the iMac, I like the Mac Mini,

01:06:44   and to see them continue to languish.

01:06:47   Like, you know, the Mac Minis, particularly interesting

01:06:49   that the last update they actually made it a lot worse.

01:06:53   They got rid of the quad core option.

01:06:54   They remember there's a big run on quad core Mac Minis

01:06:56   and still when they pop up, people jump on them.

01:06:59   But this current one is dual core.

01:07:01   You can't upgrade it inside,

01:07:03   even though the chassis is the same.

01:07:05   They soldered everything, so you can't update it.

01:07:07   And people buy those,

01:07:09   and I think Mac Minis have a really long life.

01:07:11   I think a lot of people will use them like I do

01:07:12   as like a home server or hooked up to your television.

01:07:15   - Or to stream podcasts for a podcast network.

01:07:18   - Yeah, yeah, we've got one relay,

01:07:20   the livestream is on one of those quad core Mac minis

01:07:23   that is like, I don't know, like five or six years old now,

01:07:26   and we just put a new drive in it,

01:07:29   but other than that, it's been rock solid.

01:07:31   Like, people are interested in these machines.

01:07:34   Just because they're not exciting to Apple,

01:07:36   or just because they're not the biggest money maker,

01:07:39   doesn't mean that they don't have a fan base

01:07:40   and that there aren't people who are buying them

01:07:43   and would be better served from newer technology.

01:07:46   And it's just a real bummer that it continues to be the case.

01:07:49   - I'm really surprised about the iMac.

01:07:53   - Yeah.

01:07:54   - That's the one that surprises me the most.

01:07:56   - Yeah, the rumor about it not being ready,

01:07:58   I mean, I guess you can read that as it's due

01:08:00   and something happened, but the people

01:08:05   who used to buy Mac Pros buy high-end iMacs, right?

01:08:08   Like you have one, we're gonna talk about it in a minute,

01:08:10   I now have one.

01:08:12   We all know developers who have gone

01:08:15   from the Mac Pro to the iMac.

01:08:16   The iMac is, the high end at least,

01:08:17   is a power user machine now.

01:08:20   And so to bring Thunderbolt 3 and USB-C

01:08:23   to your power user notebook,

01:08:26   but to leave your power user desktop behind,

01:08:28   is not ideal.

01:08:30   Maybe they'll get this worked out,

01:08:31   and maybe sometime before the end of the year,

01:08:34   an iMac will get like a PR update,

01:08:36   and it'll be good to go.

01:08:38   But for now it's still dated and that's a real bummer.

01:08:43   Real bummer.

01:08:44   I know Federico's really torn up about it.

01:08:48   - Yeah, yeah, very much.

01:08:49   I'm just upset.

01:08:52   - I know, you're speechless with--

01:08:54   - Yeah, yeah, I don't even wanna talk about it.

01:08:56   - So Federico, at one point we spoke about

01:09:05   your MacBook Air and it's seen better days.

01:09:09   I think at one point we talked about,

01:09:12   does a Mac Mini make sense for Federico?

01:09:14   That you could put your betas on,

01:09:16   I know you don't need to do that anymore,

01:09:17   but you could have a Mac for the few Mac things you need,

01:09:19   but a Mac Mini would be super cheap.

01:09:22   Do you have any interest in doing that at this point?

01:09:24   - What's the best Mac that I can buy that runs Skype?

01:09:28   Can you tell me?

01:09:30   - Probably a MacBook. - The cheapest Mac.

01:09:31   Yeah, probably the MacBook. - I guess.

01:09:34   Yeah, I mean, this MacBook Air is really reaching the end of its life.

01:09:40   It's five years old, it's missing a key, the top rope, sometimes off the keyboard doesn't

01:09:46   work.

01:09:47   It's slow, when it runs modern apps like Slack for example, you can hear the fans.

01:09:51   I mean, it keeps me warm in the winter and it makes me sweaty in the summer, but I guess

01:09:57   within the next year it will die for good.

01:10:01   You know what, maybe you should just buy a MacBook Air.

01:10:04   Is this supposed to be a joke?

01:10:07   No, I'm being serious. It's the cheapest.

01:10:10   You have regular USB ports in it so you don't need adapters.

01:10:14   You still have MagSafe and 12-hour battery life. I think you should probably get another MacBook Air.

01:10:19   How much does it cost? Let me find out. Let me go to the

01:10:22   Italian website. He's gonna go look.

01:10:25   I was gonna ask about the Mac Mini because I think at one point we talked about that.

01:10:29   Even now you're choosing between

01:10:33   older machines.

01:10:35   My point in all of this is that Apple really didn't fix

01:10:39   the problem with the Mac line today.

01:10:42   They fixed the problem with the MacBook Pro,

01:10:44   but the Mac line in general is still

01:10:47   about as sad as it was before the Hello Again event.

01:10:54   And I was hoping that this would not be the case.

01:10:57   I was hoping to come on here today and be talking about

01:10:58   six different machines and being super excited

01:11:00   about everything.

01:11:01   - Yeah.

01:11:02   I'm excited about the MacBook Pro, but the rest of it still makes me sad

01:11:05   the MacBook Air 13 inch with 128 gigabytes of storage is

01:11:11   1100 euros

01:11:13   That's way too expensive. Yeah, I mean I can buy a MacBook for less

01:11:18   I think no the MacBook's more expensive now. This is part of the the price hike

01:11:23   You got brexit in yeah, the MacBook now the standard MacBook is 1500 euro

01:11:30   Wait what he had the standard MacBook is 1500 euro now. Yeah, they put them up they all went up today

01:11:37   Is this because of you people Myke don't you people me?

01:11:42   I've been getting a lot of this today a lot of people blaming me for some reason for their computers being more expensive

01:11:55   Yeah, you're the only British person they know it's your scapegoat

01:12:00   The dagger in the heart, I think though,

01:12:03   is the LG Ultrafine 5K display.

01:12:07   So we have a couple links in the show notes.

01:12:09   According to Phil Schiller, on stage,

01:12:12   Apple worked with LG to design this display.

01:12:15   So it uses Thunderbolt 3.

01:12:17   See if any of this sounds familiar.

01:12:18   Close your eyes, unless you're driving.

01:12:20   If you're driving, keep your eyes open.

01:12:22   And see what display comes into mind.

01:12:25   You can hook your MacBook up or your MacBook Pro up to it.

01:12:28   It can charge and move data across the single cable.

01:12:32   You can plug in all sorts of stuff

01:12:34   to the back of the display, almost as if it were like a dock.

01:12:37   They reinvented the Thunderbolt display,

01:12:40   but it's LG branded and it's not Apple branded.

01:12:45   And it looks like a great display.

01:12:46   If I was going to buy a new MacBook Pro

01:12:48   and a new external display, I would look at this, right?

01:12:50   Because Apple doesn't have a solution.

01:12:52   But what this says to me is that Apple's,

01:12:55   I don't think Apple's gonna make a display at this point.

01:12:57   I thought that they may.

01:12:58   And you know, when they first shipped the Mac Pro,

01:13:02   I think they pointed to LG's, hey, it's 4K.

01:13:04   If you want a 4K display, go over here and buy it.

01:13:06   But we all thought that they would get around to it.

01:13:08   And today would have been the day to do it.

01:13:11   When you have your new MacBook Pro,

01:13:12   you're talking about Final Cut and Photoshop

01:13:15   and all this stuff, pros want a MacBook Pro

01:13:17   and a big display, today is the day to announce it.

01:13:20   And what do they do?

01:13:20   They announce an LG that they partnered with.

01:13:23   And I think they're just done.

01:13:25   I think they're done with the display business.

01:13:27   And that makes me sad because, you know,

01:13:29   the Thunderbolt display was really nice

01:13:31   for a really long time.

01:13:32   And the displays before that were really nice.

01:13:34   - Yeah, I don't think we're gonna see a retina display.

01:13:36   I think this is it now. - No.

01:13:38   This has gotta be it.

01:13:39   There's people in the chat

01:13:41   who are talking about external GPU monitors.

01:13:42   I don't know about any of that.

01:13:43   I don't know what this has in it.

01:13:44   But the fact that Apple worked with them

01:13:46   and it got keynote time,

01:13:48   and you can buy it from Apple on their online store,

01:13:51   like, this seems like this is the direction

01:13:53   Apple's going in.

01:13:53   They're gonna point you to other places for a display.

01:13:57   Because you know they could have done the LG one today, and they could have said and if you want an apple branded one

01:14:02   you know with built-in eyesight camera and built-in speakers and

01:14:07   Maybe more IO or something else cool that it does you know we have an option as well

01:14:11   And it's $500 and more that have been totally fine

01:14:13   You have a cheap LG version or less expensive not cheap less expensive LG option

01:14:18   You have like a really nice Apple option, but it's just the one and

01:14:21   At this point if they release a new cinema display at some point

01:14:25   I will be shocked. This seems like they're going third-party options only.

01:14:29   Which again, totes bummer.

01:14:32   I don't think they sell enough of the computers that connect to this.

01:14:36   Can I ask you guys a question before we move towards the end? But you gotta be honest.

01:14:42   Yes.

01:14:43   Okay. So, there was a Microsoft event yesterday.

01:14:48   Ha, ha. I was gonna bring this up.

01:14:50   Apple event today. Now be honest, which event left you more excited?

01:14:55   So I didn't watch the Microsoft event but I have spent, I've just like watched a couple of videos

01:15:04   about the Surface Studio. I'm more excited about that computer because with the way that I

01:15:14   personally work the work that I do on a Mac.

01:15:17   I edit audio and I edit video

01:15:20   and I do them using a Wacom tablet and a track pad.

01:15:25   I imagine a beautiful world in which I would use a pen

01:15:29   on a screen and my hands to move everything around.

01:15:33   For the work that I do, this is a fantastic machine for me.

01:15:38   It just has one big problem in that it doesn't run

01:15:40   the operating system that I wanna use.

01:15:43   And the thing is, right, I was thinking about today, if I used Adobe's products,

01:15:48   if I used Premiere and Audition, I would probably buy one of these computers

01:15:52   because my Mac is for a specific purpose now is to do those two things.

01:16:00   It's all I do with it.

01:16:01   If I used multi-platform applications, that would suffice.

01:16:08   If Apple made Final Cut and Logic for Windows and it was good, then I would be able to use

01:16:14   a device like this.

01:16:15   Just because for the way that I use inputs, the input methods that I use, this computer

01:16:22   has been designed around where I am bringing in 50% of it, a third party peripheral to

01:16:29   my Mac which is pretty well supported.

01:16:34   So I'm more excited about that computer personally.

01:16:37   If Apple made it, if Apple brought this out,

01:16:39   my iMac would already be in the trash.

01:16:41   Like I would buy this computer so fast

01:16:44   because it's the type of,

01:16:46   it has the input methods that I prefer to use for,

01:16:51   I use them for comfort, I use them for RSI,

01:16:54   and now I'm faster with them.

01:16:56   And I have my kind of,

01:16:57   my workflow is built around them on this machine.

01:17:00   And for me, it is purely because like my Mac

01:17:03   is a production tool.

01:17:04   So it can't all of the other software on my Mac does not matter if it's not used to produce audio and it's not produced

01:17:11   It's not made to produce video. It doesn't matter like it just doesn't matter. So there you go. I

01:17:16   Think I think the surface studio is super interesting and I tweeted the other day that like

01:17:26   Apple hasn't really pushed the boundaries of the iMac in a long time

01:17:30   that the iMac that we have today is more or less the iMac G5, right?

01:17:35   It's an LCD with a foot and the computer on the back of it.

01:17:38   It's gotten skinnier and the display's gotten way better.

01:17:40   But the form factor hasn't changed.

01:17:42   Since really the G4 is the last one that was innovative as far as a

01:17:46   form perspective.

01:17:49   And I don't know if this machine is going to take off.

01:17:51   I think that there are gonna be people who really like it, people who like to work the way Myke does with a pen and

01:17:56   with his hands.

01:17:57   And I'm not saying Apple should copy it.

01:18:01   I'm not saying the iMac should do that.

01:18:05   What I am saying is that it would be interesting to see Apple expand some of the technology

01:18:11   it already has.

01:18:12   It's like, why can't I use an Apple Pencil on the giant trackpad on this new MacBook

01:18:17   Pro?

01:18:19   why can't I at least have the option

01:18:22   of an iPad that's even bigger than 12.9 inches

01:18:28   that you could edit on comfortably at your desk

01:18:31   and hunch over and use both hands comfortably.

01:18:34   I'm not saying those machines are for everybody.

01:18:39   I don't want a touch-enabled Mac.

01:18:42   A, Mac OS is nowhere near ready for touch

01:18:44   as far as a user interface,

01:18:46   But there are people who do want to be more in the middle.

01:18:50   And having options there is good.

01:18:52   And honestly, when they showed that big track pad today,

01:18:56   I was like, "Oh, what if you could use a pencil with it?"

01:18:58   That would be really, really interesting.

01:19:02   You could edit at a MacBook Pro with your pencil mic.

01:19:04   Like that would be a big change, potentially,

01:19:08   for someone who works like you.

01:19:10   But they're not doing it.

01:19:11   They are really locked into their form factors.

01:19:13   The MacBook Pro we have today,

01:19:16   kind of the same design since 1991.

01:19:17   And I'm not saying change it for change's sake,

01:19:19   I'm not saying the Surface Studio's gonna be a giant hit,

01:19:21   I don't think it will be, I think it'll be a niche product.

01:19:24   But we don't see Apple take risks

01:19:26   with their hardware like that,

01:19:28   and I think that it's super interesting

01:19:32   that Microsoft is taking a big run

01:19:34   at creative professionals on the desktop,

01:19:36   and that was Apple's bread and butter for like 20 years.

01:19:41   - So I've been thinking about this.

01:19:43   This product reminds me of your iMac.

01:19:47   And it's interesting to me, like this Surface Studio,

01:19:52   when I say your iMac, obviously mean the G3, right? Like I think, right.

01:19:56   This product will not sell in large volumes,

01:20:00   but Microsoft is targeting the creative professional.

01:20:04   This was what Apple did to bring themselves back to the fore, right?

01:20:08   Like everybody can agree that the iMac G3 put them on the path

01:20:13   that made them the most successful computer company in the world.

01:20:16   It's not saying that anybody that follows that could do that, you know, lightning in

01:20:20   a bottle and all that, but that was what did it.

01:20:23   If I'm Sacha Nadella, maybe this is what I will try as well.

01:20:27   Like I want to be seen as the most innovative, dominant computer maker in the world again.

01:20:33   So why don't I go back to basics and start over?

01:20:36   I will say that like the Surface Book, whilst interesting, is not as exciting to me as the

01:20:41   MacBook Pro.

01:20:42   Right? Like it's not Windows, it's not Surface, that computer.

01:20:46   The Surface Studio is more interesting to me than the MacBook Pro.

01:20:49   But Apple's for Apple's sake, right? Like the laptops that they released?

01:20:53   I don't want that. I want a MacBook Pro.

01:20:55   I don't want the Surface Book, even though I think that is a very cool looking device.

01:20:59   It doesn't give me what I'm looking for.

01:21:00   The reason I think the Studio is interesting,

01:21:03   it's just with the way that I work, the tools that I use, it fits me better.

01:21:07   But I'm not going to be moving.

01:21:08   Was that the answer you expected Federico?

01:21:10   Yes, it's a very good answer. I ask because I have no interest in either Pro Max or the Surface Studio.

01:21:20   I just feel like it feels like something new, and I mean the studio, in a maybe deeper way than a Touch Bar.

01:21:33   I think the Touch Bar is awesome. I think it makes total sense for the MacBook.

01:21:38   it's a very clever way, as I said, of bringing iOS to macOS. But the Surface Studio, just

01:21:44   judging only from the video, it feels like something new. And maybe in practice it'll

01:21:49   be terrible, maybe there's going to be some seriously bad flaw with the hardware, I don't

01:21:53   know. But I saw the Penny Arcade guy with his review, it sounds like a fantastic computer

01:22:03   if you're into that line of work, and it looks different. And so that's why I wanted to

01:22:08   ask because the touch bar is also different but I feel like the Surface Studio, Microsoft

01:22:13   is doing good work in, you know, trying things differently which is kind of weird to say

01:22:20   of Microsoft but that's where we've ended up I guess.

01:22:23   Yeah, that's kind of where they are as a company right now because they have a visionary CEO

01:22:30   I think in the Della. So I was going, I've been talking for weeks about the fact that

01:22:38   I was waiting for the next laptops to be released and then I was going to be replacing my MacBook

01:22:42   Pro right? That's been the plan for a while because I want a more purpose travel machine.

01:22:49   I want something that's thinner, something that's lighter. So I looked at the MacBook

01:22:53   Pro, it's thinner, it's lighter, it has the touch bar which I think looks really cool

01:22:57   it has all of the power. Now I am not buying a MacBook Pro and there are two reasons. One,

01:23:04   price is a reason, right? But I had saved up enough money, I put aside enough money

01:23:09   to buy a professional laptop so the increased price from what I thought I would be is not

01:23:17   a lot more based on what I'd saved, right? They're expensive but you know it was going

01:23:22   be something that's going to last me multiple years. One of the main reasons I've decided

01:23:28   to not go for the MacBook Pro is the main advancement will be no benefit to me, the

01:23:34   Touch Bar, because I will only use this machine a handful of times a year, where I maybe will

01:23:40   use it for a couple of months a year in total. I can't get used to it. I can't allow myself

01:23:49   to get used to that because I can't use it for the rest of the year right it's

01:23:55   not a good thing for me to have this like split experience like that so

01:24:01   that's the main reason so I bought a MacBook I bought a gold MacBook I bought

01:24:08   the the one that the higher tier up so the MacBook adorable like the what is it

01:24:16   I can't even remember what it is. It's like 1.3 gigahertz or something. It's nothing.

01:24:20   But I went on to the Apple website and saw that the prices had gone up and I was unhappy about that

01:24:28   because I could have just bought it this morning and it would have been getting the same computer.

01:24:33   So I thought to myself, well Apple have put the price up. Apple is not the only place that you can buy a MacBook from.

01:24:41   So I bought it from a department store chain here called John Lewis at yesterday's price

01:24:47   So I saved I say 300 pounds, which was very happy. I was very proud of myself for doing that

01:24:53   I'm now will spend that savings on adapters

01:24:56   But this machine this is the machine that I think will be the best for me

01:25:01   It's going to be really upset when I want to edit podcasts and video on this

01:25:05   but I can live with that because what I will be doing is

01:25:11   reducing the space needed in a bag and the weight significantly, which really is the

01:25:18   key thing that I need to do when I'm traveling. So there you go. That's what I have. I got

01:25:21   a MacBook.

01:25:24   So we haven't even talked about it on the show yet, but I, several weeks ago, picked

01:25:28   up a refurbished 5K iMac from Apple. You can buy a refurbished machine. They warranted

01:25:33   them as new, which is really nice. So I got a pretty loaded iMac for like $600 off. And

01:25:40   I figured if they update them today, it'd be a little bit of a bummer, but I already

01:25:44   have a ton of like USB Thunderbolt stuff.

01:25:48   And you know, my studio setup is pretty stable at this point, so I won't be changing out

01:25:53   a lot of stuff.

01:25:54   And so, sold the 15-inch MacBook Pro that I've had the last year and a half.

01:25:58   And so I too am in the market for something thin and light to travel with.

01:26:02   And I do some other stuff in town where I need a laptop, but I don't need a 15-inch

01:26:08   MacBook Pro.

01:26:09   is now my main machine, the MacBook would be secondary.

01:26:13   And so I like you waiting till today's event

01:26:17   to see what's gonna happen.

01:26:19   And I am really, really on the fence about what to do.

01:26:23   The 13 inch with the touch bar of course is enticing

01:26:25   to have the new technology.

01:26:27   It's still thin and light, it's in the class

01:26:30   of the MacBook Air, it's actually a little bit

01:26:32   smaller footprint.

01:26:33   And it looks nice, but it's $1800 is hard to justify

01:26:38   for a secondary computer.

01:26:40   I could do it, it's in the budget,

01:26:41   but I'm not quite sold on that yet.

01:26:44   And again, being a secondary machine,

01:26:47   the Touch Bar stuff may only get in the way.

01:26:51   It may be that because I don't have it on the iMac

01:26:53   where I'm working every day,

01:26:54   that I don't really ever get the benefit of it

01:26:56   on the notebook, and that maybe it's frustrating

01:26:59   to have it one place and not the other.

01:27:02   And so then I considered the super strange

01:27:07   new MacBook Pro, new design without the touch bar.

01:27:11   It's got the function key still, it's cheaper,

01:27:14   still thin and light, still pretty powerful,

01:27:17   but it'd have a retina display, which would be nice.

01:27:21   But still adapting, and for things that I need on the road,

01:27:24   having things like an SD card slot and USB-A

01:27:26   are still pretty nice, pretty common things I do

01:27:30   if I'm on the road doing podcasting or live events

01:27:32   or something like that.

01:27:33   And so I turned to the MacBook Air.

01:27:36   Same as it was yesterday.

01:27:37   It's cheap, the display's really crummy,

01:27:40   but it has USB ports, it's Thunderbolt port,

01:27:43   has an SD card slot, still obviously thin and light,

01:27:46   and still works with all the other stuff I have

01:27:49   for the iMac.

01:27:50   So I'm not talking about, you know,

01:27:51   oh, if I take my USB interface with me,

01:27:55   I need to remember to take the adapter or a different cable

01:27:58   than if I'm at home and I'm using the cable on the desk.

01:28:01   And so I haven't made a decision yet.

01:28:05   the MacBook Air would be the cheapest

01:28:06   and probably the easiest to live with,

01:28:09   but I know that I'm a nerd and I know that

01:28:12   at some point I will want to try the new stuff.

01:28:16   And so the MacBook Pros call to me as well.

01:28:19   And since they are more or less the same size and weight,

01:28:24   that really only complicates it.

01:28:26   'Cause I want something that's light and thin.

01:28:28   I don't want the MacBook.

01:28:30   I would like more than one port.

01:28:32   I would like a more powerful processor.

01:28:35   So for me, the Air versus the Pro conversation

01:28:37   is really tricky, and I've been without a laptop now

01:28:41   for a couple weeks, and it's been okay, I've gotten by,

01:28:45   but the new MacBook Pros in the US are shipping

01:28:48   two to three weeks out, that was a couple hours ago,

01:28:50   it may be longer now, and so can I wait, you know,

01:28:54   another couple of weeks, or do I get the MacBook Pro

01:28:58   that's cheaper, still light and thin,

01:29:00   but has regular function keys?

01:29:02   I really don't know, like I don't know what I'm going to do.

01:29:05   I'm gonna try to make a decision this weekend,

01:29:07   but it's really confusing.

01:29:10   Like when we went through the price stuff

01:29:12   a couple minutes ago, there's a lot of options now.

01:29:15   And if you're looking for a 13-inch laptop,

01:29:18   you got a lot of options, more than ever.

01:29:23   And if you count the 12 inch being pretty close to size,

01:29:25   you got even more.

01:29:26   And so I think Apple will end up simplifying the line.

01:29:31   I can see a world in which the MacBook Air goes away

01:29:36   and I kinda wonder if the MacBook Air was gone,

01:29:40   if this non-Touch Bar MacBook Pro

01:29:44   may have been called the MacBook Air

01:29:45   or may have been called MacBook.

01:29:47   The names are all really confusing right now,

01:29:49   but I'm really on the fence.

01:29:51   So I've gone over pros and cons

01:29:55   and we'll see where I end up.

01:29:57   But even for somebody like me

01:29:59   who knows what they're looking at

01:30:00   and kind of knows what they want to a degree,

01:30:02   it's still a confusing time.

01:30:04   - I think the practical decision is the Air.

01:30:09   - Probably.

01:30:10   - But knowing you as I do,

01:30:12   I know you're never gonna be happy with that.

01:30:14   - Probably.

01:30:15   - And you'll buy the Air

01:30:16   and then just buy the MacBook Pro six months later.

01:30:18   - Probably.

01:30:19   - Yeah.

01:30:20   So I think you should just buy the MacBook Pro

01:30:22   and then the bags of dongles you're gonna need.

01:30:25   - Yeah, and you know what I may do is,

01:30:28   try it without the touch bar and see if that's enough.

01:30:32   You know, because not having the touch bar on both machines

01:30:36   really feels like it's going to be frustrating that when I edit

01:30:40   on the laptop or when I'm working on the laptop that I'm going to get used to it

01:30:44   and then I'm going to want it on the iMac or that it really gets in the way

01:30:48   on the MacBook because I'm not used to it. And so for me

01:30:52   what I may end up doing is the MacBook Pro without it, I can get it much sooner

01:30:56   and I'm not in a world where I have it one place

01:30:59   and not the other, and then if they ever add to the iMac

01:31:01   through external keyboard or something,

01:31:03   then look at doing it.

01:31:05   It also makes that machine $300 cheaper,

01:31:07   and for a secondary machine, that is a factor, right?

01:31:12   Especially if I'm wanting to do AppleCare, so.

01:31:15   We'll see, I guess I'll follow up with that next week.

01:31:17   - Yep.

01:31:19   All right, you asked the listeners on some connected QA,

01:31:21   do you wanna run through those before we finish?

01:31:23   - Sure, so I just pulled out three.

01:31:25   There's a lot of overlap.

01:31:26   The first one being, "Is anyone worried about accidentally shutting down the Mac when using

01:31:30   Touch ID?"

01:31:31   So the word on the street is the Touch ID sensor is also the power button.

01:31:35   My guess is that it only works as a Touch ID button when Mac OS tells it to, so at login

01:31:44   or during Apple Pay.

01:31:49   Now maybe with fast view searching it's always listening, but right now if you click the

01:31:54   power button on a laptop, you actually have to like hold it down and then then after you

01:32:01   hold down for like three seconds the system asks are you sure you want to shut down your

01:32:04   computer now and you have options like sleep or restart or cancel or shut down.

01:32:08   And so you're not going to accidentally turn the computer off because you're gonna have

01:32:12   to like hold and press or maybe you have to hold function and then press it.

01:32:17   I don't really know but I'm not worried about accidentally like turning it off.

01:32:20   I would like to think that if there is a touch ID purchase needed at least like you know

01:32:26   an Apple Pay purchase like that you wouldn't be able to turn it off at that moment.

01:32:31   Yeah.

01:32:32   You know I don't know.

01:32:33   So the second one from Steven FCB talking about the dongles I get how to charge my iPhone

01:32:38   on this laptop.

01:32:39   Apple does sell a USB to lightning cable it's like 20 bucks or you can get a USB C to USB

01:32:45   A adapter which if you're gonna buy any adapters that's probably the one you're gonna buy so

01:32:49   you can hook up all your regular USB stuff.

01:32:50   So totally doable, it's super weird the iPhone, like the iPhone is a weird product because

01:32:55   they can't put USB-C lightning cables in the box because there are only some Apple machines

01:33:00   and high-end PCs using USB-C.

01:33:02   Like most people, if they plug an iPhone into a computer at all, it's probably a PC where

01:33:08   USB-C has not made great inroads yet.

01:33:09   So I think it may be a while before you get USB-C in the box, but you can buy a lightning

01:33:13   cable.

01:33:14   Yeah, I think we all use those, right?

01:33:17   we have the fast charger for the iPad.

01:33:20   That is the USB-C to Lightning.

01:33:23   - Yes.

01:33:23   So they're definitely out there,

01:33:26   and I think that's,

01:33:27   it's just gonna be a little weird if you buy this,

01:33:29   you're gonna need to buy a cable.

01:33:31   The last one was about the naming,

01:33:33   about, you know, talking about the MacBook

01:33:37   versus MacBook Pro versus MacBook Air.

01:33:39   This is from Brando.

01:33:40   Do you think Apple screwed up the naming?

01:33:44   12 inch should be Air, 13th function keys MacBook,

01:33:46   13 to 15 with Touch Bar Pro.

01:33:48   I think the naming would be more clear

01:33:51   if they started out this way,

01:33:52   but remember the naming is like generations old.

01:33:56   And the MacBook Air name comes from 2008

01:33:58   when it really was way thinner,

01:34:00   way lighter than anything else.

01:34:02   And it's just like baggage from the past.

01:34:04   And the MacBook Air will go away at some point

01:34:08   and it'll be the MacBook and the MacBook Pro.

01:34:11   And I think that middle MacBook Pro without the Touch Bar

01:34:13   will eventually go away too.

01:34:14   So they are on the track to sanity,

01:34:16   they're just not quite there yet.

01:34:18   - I think the next time that these computers get updated,

01:34:21   we'll lose both the Air and that weird MacBook,

01:34:23   the Function Key MacBook that will go, as you say.

01:34:26   They will both go away and then we'll just,

01:34:28   there was a time where it was just MacBook and MacBook Pro

01:34:30   and then products have come and gone, right,

01:34:33   out of that lineup and they've shuffled the names

01:34:35   around over time.

01:34:36   I think that we're in a transition period

01:34:39   from a branding perspective as well as everything else.

01:34:42   Yeah and it is more awkward than it was yesterday no doubt but it's just something that they

01:34:48   just have to work through.

01:34:49   All right if you want to catch our show notes for this week go to relay.fm/connected/114

01:34:56   thank you so much to Smile for sponsoring this week's episode.

01:34:59   If you want to find Federico's online Federico's online you can find him on the line.

01:35:05   He is uh where are you maxstories.net that's the that's the one right?

01:35:10   I think that's where you're right.

01:35:12   That's my website, yes.

01:35:13   Okay, good.

01:35:14   On the line.

01:35:15   And Steven is at 512pixels.net.

01:35:18   Federico is @Vittucci on Twitter, V-I-T-I-C-C-I.

01:35:21   Steven is @ismh and I am @imike.

01:35:26   As always, thank you for listening.

01:35:28   I am not going to be here next week, it's just the two of you.

01:35:30   I am going to be on location at the All Conference in Ireland.

01:35:35   Me and Jason will be recording Upgrade from All and we'll get his opinions on all of this

01:35:40   stuff because he's actually had his hands on those machines as well in the

01:35:43   in the reviewers area so looking forward to talking about that and I will have a

01:35:47   MacBook as well by a point. Hooray for me! Thank you so much for listening everyone

01:35:53   we'll be back next time until then say goodbye guys.

01:35:55   Adios.