Connected

00:00:00 ◼   ► (dramatic music)

00:00:02 ◼   ► - From Relay FM, this is Connected, episode number 97.

00:00:10 ◼   ► Today's show is brought to you very kindly

00:00:12 ◼   ► by Ministry of Supply, willing.com, and Braintree.

00:00:16 ◼   ► My name is Myke Hurley.

00:00:17 ◼   ► I am joined by Mr. Steven Hackett.

00:00:19 ◼   ► Hello, Steven Hackett.

00:00:20 ◼   ► - Hello, Michael Hurley.

00:00:22 ◼   ► - And Hark, what is that in the distance?

00:00:23 ◼   ► It is a returning Federico Vittucci.

00:00:25 ◼   ► Hello, Federico.

00:00:26 ◼   ► - Hey, guys.

00:00:27 ◼   ► - So happy to have you back.

00:00:29 ◼   ► I missed you guys last week.

00:00:31 ◼   ► Are you recovered?

00:00:33 ◼   ► Not fully, but I'll get there.

00:00:37 ◼   ► You know, I was thinking there was some kind of irony in the fact that I caught some kind of bug at a developers conference.

00:00:43 ◼   ► Oh, feathery. Have you been working on that all week?

00:00:49 ◼   ► No, I just thought about it like a minute ago.

00:00:53 ◼   ► It's like on Monday of last week. I have a great idea.

00:00:57 ◼   ► No, I get better eventually I think. I just want to get back to work.

00:01:02 ◼   ► But I miss you guys and you did a good job last week. So it's good to be back. Yeah.

00:01:07 ◼   ► I know something that will have helped your...

00:01:10 ◼   ► While you've been sick you've had something to do.

00:01:13 ◼   ► You've had the ability to play with the iPad 9.7.

00:01:18 ◼   ► Not much actually.

00:01:20 ◼   ► No?

00:01:20 ◼   ► Not much. I mean I did... I'm using it. It's just...

00:01:25 ◼   ► Last week I basically didn't touch my devices for like three days.

00:01:31 ◼   ► I was just in bed and I didn't want to see Twitter, I didn't want to see Slack.

00:01:36 ◼   ► So I've been using it for really just the past couple of days actually.

00:01:41 ◼   ► Do I have to say that you were right again?

00:01:48 ◼   ► I mean, you don't have to say it, but I think it would be the right thing to do.

00:01:53 ◼   ► You know?

00:01:54 ◼   ► You think it will.

00:01:55 ◼   ► Okay, so you were right.

00:01:56 ◼   ► Thank you.

00:01:57 ◼   ► You want to say it like in full?

00:02:00 ◼   ► #mikewasright.

00:02:01 ◼   ► Thank you.

00:02:02 ◼   ► Is that what you want to hear?

00:02:03 ◼   ► Yes, that's what I want to hear.

00:02:05 ◼   ► Fine.

00:02:06 ◼   ► So, wow.

00:02:07 ◼   ► So, I'm not going to hear the end of this, I know.

00:02:11 ◼   ► Anyway, you were right when you said that I needed a second device to, you know, especially

00:02:17 ◼   ► during the summer for the iOS 10 beta.

00:02:20 ◼   ► So, this is what I'm doing.

00:02:21 ◼   ► I put the iOS 10 beta 1 on the smaller iPad Pro and I'm keeping iOS 9, at least for the next few betas, until beta 3 or 4.

00:02:30 ◼   ► I'm keeping iOS 9 on the big iPad Pro, which is where I get my writing done, because I just want to have a stable environment.

00:02:39 ◼   ► So the iPad Pro, the small one, two points that immediately caught my attention.

00:02:46 ◼   ► intention, the true tone display you really don't get it until you use it for a few hours.

00:02:53 ◼   ► And it's so... like the best way that I can describe it is it's like night shift for the

00:02:59 ◼   ► day. And by that I mean it makes your... the looking experience, the looking at the screen,

00:03:07 ◼   ► the entire experience, it makes it better, more comfortable. And when you switch back

00:03:12 ◼   ► even to the iPhone, not just to the big iPad Pro, but even to another non-true tone display

00:03:17 ◼   ► device, it looks worse. It looks blue and it looks like, I don't know, it just looks

00:03:24 ◼   ► less comfortable than the true tone display. So definitely one of the technologies that

00:03:31 ◼   ► I would like to see coming to every Apple device.

00:03:34 ◼   ► Yep. It is like Retina in that way. Like I want it on all of my devices now.

00:03:39 ◼   ► And the second aspect I would say is after the big iPad Pro you kind of forget how light

00:03:49 ◼   ► and comfortable and just manageable it is, the 9.7 iPad.

00:03:59 ◼   ► Another point on the other hand that I really remain convinced of is I don't want to get

00:04:09 ◼   ► my writing done on the small iPad Pro. Because the multitasking experience, the split view,

00:04:15 ◼   ► there's really no contest between the big iPad Pro and this one. I mean, it's perfect

00:04:19 ◼   ► for Twitter, reading, catching up on Slack.

00:04:22 ◼   ► I find it as like a convenience as opposed to a way to do serious work. And that's where

00:04:29 ◼   ► I see the two iPads as being different a lot of the time.

00:04:32 ◼   ► Yeah. And I mean, I could get my writing done. It's just, I know what split view, what the

00:04:38 ◼   ► assistant keyboard can be on the Big iPad Pro and I don't want to switch back.

00:04:42 ◼   ► And I was thinking about this even when we were in San Francisco, about the fact that

00:04:48 ◼   ► a lot of people, including me and you, we used to have desktop computer and the portable

00:04:53 ◼   ► computer, we used to have iMacs and MacBooks, and now we were ending up with the Big iPad

00:05:00 ◼   ► Pro and the Small iPad Pro.

00:05:01 ◼   ► And in a way it's sort of like the same idea, which is you have the big device for work

00:05:07 ◼   ► and a small device for everything else, like a portable device that you can carry around

00:05:11 ◼   ► all the time. But there is a difference between the old age, I would say, and the new era,

00:05:17 ◼   ► which is even the big computer, so even the big iPad Pro, I can carry around with me all

00:05:23 ◼   ► the time. And it's got cellular, and it's got, you know, this beautiful display. So

00:05:27 ◼   ► I would say that even if the basic idea is the same, which is you have two computers,

00:05:32 ◼   ► one is big, the other is small. I think we're getting better in terms of portability and

00:05:40 ◼   ► having a computer that's always with you. Because in the old era I couldn't bring the

00:05:44 ◼   ► iMac with me.

00:05:45 ◼   ► No, it's closer to having like a 15 or 17 inch MacBook Pro and a MacBook Air, but that

00:05:52 ◼   ► kind of description doesn't effectively make the point that I'm trying to make. So that's

00:05:57 ◼   ► why I've used like iMac and laptop, even though I'm kind of bending it a little bit in there

00:06:02 ◼   ► but it's to make the point rather than to talk about like the actual logistics of carrying something like this around.

00:06:08 ◼   ► Exactly. Yeah. So I'm very satisfied so far.

00:06:12 ◼   ► That's all I ever want really.

00:06:14 ◼   ► I know. The gold and red smart cover combo looks fantastic. It got Sylvia's own seal of approval.

00:06:24 ◼   ► Oh.

00:06:25 ◼   ► Yeah?

00:06:25 ◼   ► Lucky boy.

00:06:26 ◼   ► So I came back, so I didn't tell her nothing about the fact that I bought an iPad while

00:06:34 ◼   ► I was in San Francisco.

00:06:35 ◼   ► No, I've been meaning to ask you how this went down.

00:06:37 ◼   ► So I knew she wouldn't understand on the phone.

00:06:41 ◼   ► So I kept it a secret.

00:06:44 ◼   ► And I even waited until we were back home, just me and her, not even in the car.

00:06:49 ◼   ► So when I was unpacking, I was like, "Oh, by the way, I bought you a pen, I bought you

00:06:53 ◼   ► a t-shirt, a bunch of stickers."

00:06:56 ◼   ► And then the very last item, I was like, "Oh, by the way, I bought an iPad Pro."

00:07:00 ◼   ► So the immediate reaction was, "Why are you wasting our money?"

00:07:05 ◼   ► Which I was expecting.

00:07:06 ◼   ► Then I explained my reasoning, and I was like, "By the end of this process, when I'm done

00:07:13 ◼   ► with the beta, you can also use this device.

00:07:16 ◼   ► It's not gonna be just mine.

00:07:17 ◼   ► You can also use it with a pencil, you can draw, you can do whatever you want."

00:07:21 ◼   ► So she was like, "Okay, I like this.

00:07:23 ◼   ► I like the idea.

00:07:24 ◼   ► I like the color, the combination of the gold and the red smart cover.

00:07:29 ◼   ► I like it.

00:07:30 ◼   ► So she's happy with it, because she knows eventually she's going to be able to use it

00:07:34 ◼   ► as well.

00:07:35 ◼   ► And in fact, she's thinking about actually getting a red iPhone case, because she likes

00:07:41 ◼   ► the red smart cover so much.

00:07:43 ◼   ► So all's well that ends well, I guess.

00:07:48 ◼   ► I wanted to go back for a second to the multiple computer analogy.

00:07:53 ◼   ► I agree with you Myke, I think it is a little bit closer to like having a 15-inch

00:07:57 ◼   ► MacBook Pro and like the MacBook but what I do find interesting is the idea

00:08:01 ◼   ► that you really prefer doing like some work on one and some work on the other

00:08:07 ◼   ► and I mean going to the desktop and notebook you know idea for a long time I

00:08:15 ◼   ► think people would look at a desktop like an iMac or a Mac Pro or go further back

00:08:19 ◼   ► like a power mac and that's there like that's the work machine like if you're a

00:08:24 ◼   ► designer that's where you're designing or that's where you're producing music or

00:08:27 ◼   ► editing video and you have like a laptop to go to meetings and like do email at

00:08:33 ◼   ► home and you know do like non heavy lifting type tasks and to hear like

00:08:41 ◼   ► that carrying on and to how you guys are using your tablets like I think it's a

00:08:46 ◼   ► really natural evolution I mean I think I mean clearly there are people out

00:08:49 ◼   ► there who think it's ridiculous and I

00:08:51 ◼   ► think that's that's silly because you

00:08:52 ◼   ► guys are super productive you own your

00:08:55 ◼   ► businesses like not much you can complain

00:08:57 ◼   ► about but I just I don't know I find

00:09:00 ◼   ► that that thread continuing today and I

00:09:04 ◼   ► think for a lot of people they're kind

00:09:06 ◼   ► of a step behind you where they're hey I

00:09:08 ◼   ► have a MacBook or a MacBook Pro and

00:09:11 ◼   ► that's where I do my work and then I

00:09:13 ◼   ► have an iPad for like other stuff that's

00:09:15 ◼   ► where I sit right I'd yeah have a lot of

00:09:17 ◼   ► of work I could do on my tablet, but I choose to do it on the Mac still. But there are types

00:09:23 ◼   ► of tasks that are just more comfortable on the iPad. So again, this whole idea of having

00:09:28 ◼   ► multiple machines for multiple things is not a new one, and I think that puts a lot of

00:09:36 ◼   ► credence into what you're saying. Yeah, I think so. I will keep going back to this time

00:09:44 ◼   ► and time again that this is just the machine that I want to do my work on. Luckily or unlikely

00:09:50 ◼   ► enough for me, there are multiple machines, right? But they offer me different, they offer

00:09:57 ◼   ► me more choice than maybe two laptops, you know, in that way I feel like there's big

00:10:02 ◼   ► differences because the software works different. That doesn't really happen very much on the

00:10:06 ◼   ► Mac, right? So we're talking about like, it's not just the space that you get in Splitview,

00:10:11 ◼   ► the keyboard being fundamentally different is a big thing and the 12.9 inch iPad Pro's

00:10:17 ◼   ► keyboard is so much better than the 9.7 just because of all this extra space and the extra

00:10:24 ◼   ► keys. So it's like that is actually kind of a different computer at that point. It's like

00:10:29 ◼   ► imagine having, because Apple doesn't do this right? You don't get two laptops with different

00:10:33 ◼   ► keyboards. They have this, well let's pull the MacBook Adorable out of this for the moment.

00:10:38 ◼   ► Like if you look at the MacBook Pro's size differences, right, they're the same keyboard

00:10:43 ◼   ► over the two different devices, you know, and you have one that is 13 inch and one that

00:10:47 ◼   ► is 15 inch.

00:10:48 ◼   ► So you can't really, I think, compare them in all the same ways.

00:10:51 ◼   ► There's like two laptops.

00:10:53 ◼   ► That's why I think it gets real messy, but I know that it works for me and I'm happy

00:10:57 ◼   ► to hear that it's working for Federico as well.

00:11:00 ◼   ► There was something I wanted to mention to you, TG, about the 9.7.

00:11:06 ◼   ► I think when you use the software keyboard is when the split screen is not very useful

00:11:12 ◼   ► at all, because you've got two apps taking up a small amount of size and then the keyboard

00:11:17 ◼   ► takes up half the screen, so then you kind of have like two quarters, it's not very useful

00:11:22 ◼   ► there.

00:11:23 ◼   ► When you use an external keyboard, the split screen is way better than that.

00:11:27 ◼   ► And I know because you use the software a lot, but now that you're playing around with

00:11:31 ◼   ► external keyboards more, it's better.

00:11:32 ◼   ► So like I always use the smart keyboard, which always on the keyboard cover. I can never

00:11:37 ◼   ► remember. What is that product called?

00:11:39 ◼   ► Smart keyboard.

00:11:40 ◼   ► Smart keyboard. It always confuses me because that feels like that's the magic keyboard.

00:11:45 ◼   ► And then I feel like it should just be called the keyboard cover, but it's not. And then

00:11:48 ◼   ► you have something called the smart cover.

00:11:50 ◼   ► That one's not magic.

00:11:52 ◼   ► Oh, that's a good point. That's a good point. I think it's because it doesn't have a lightning

00:11:56 ◼   ► pull on the bottom of it or something. I don't know. But because I use the keyboard cover,

00:12:02 ◼   ► a lot more, it's not what it's called is it?

00:12:04 ◼   ► What is it called?

00:12:05 ◼   ► Smart keyboard. - Smart keyboard, right.

00:12:07 ◼   ► - Yes. - Oh my word.

00:12:09 ◼   ► Because I use the smart keyboard,

00:12:11 ◼   ► I think it's better for me.

00:12:12 ◼   ► And I think maybe if you use it more

00:12:14 ◼   ► with the hardware keyboard,

00:12:15 ◼   ► you'll feel that you can get more productive work

00:12:18 ◼   ► out of the 9.7 inch screen.

00:12:21 ◼   ► And when I was only using that to travel with,

00:12:25 ◼   ► I was more constrained when I was in San Francisco,

00:12:28 ◼   ► but I was able to do all of the work that I do.

00:12:30 ◼   ► which is a less comfortable environment to do it in.

00:12:32 ◼   ► But it's like when I use the MacBook Pro to edit a show,

00:12:37 ◼   ► it's not as comfortable as when I use my 27-inch iMac

00:12:40 ◼   ► to edit a show.

00:12:41 ◼   ► - I just feel like the small iPad Pro is more,

00:12:45 ◼   ► like it invites me to hold it instead of using a keyboard.

00:12:50 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's way more suitable for consumption of stuff

00:12:54 ◼   ► than the 12-miners, except for video, of course.

00:12:57 ◼   ► But yeah. - Definitely.

00:12:59 ◼   ► We, Sivi and I, we're still watching Orange is the New Black season 4 and it's all on the iPad Pro, the big one.

00:13:07 ◼   ► Just because it's bigger and it looks fantastic.

00:13:10 ◼   ► But definitely I think a keyboard with the split view helps.

00:13:15 ◼   ► It's just, this is the kind of device that I want to hold, that I want to walk around the house with, that I want to sit on the couch with.

00:13:21 ◼   ► with. So I think I'll be doing all my typing on the Big Appet Pro and use the small one

00:13:28 ◼   ► for, you know, Pocket, Twitter, that kind of stuff.

00:13:31 ◼   ► Yeah, and, you know, I do realize when I take the keyboard off sometimes, I'm like "Oh,

00:13:37 ◼   ► this thing is so thin and light!" What a surprise! Oh yeah, that catches me. That catches me

00:13:43 ◼   ► every now and then.

00:13:44 ◼   ► Alright, we haven't even really gotten into follow-up yet, so let's take our first break,

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00:15:05 ◼   ► I am going to ask you now Federico, because you mentioned the review when we were talking

00:15:10 ◼   ► about the 9.7 and I saw you post a tweet the other day with you looked like you were opening

00:15:16 ◼   ► a mind mapping application to begin the mind map for your next review. So I have two kind

00:15:22 ◼   ► of questions for you. One, has the work begun and how is that going? And also, it's very

00:15:28 ◼   ► funny to me that it seems like the only use you have for whatever application this is

00:15:32 ◼   ► is to plan your iOS reviews.

00:15:35 ◼   ► The second question is, I don't usually write articles that are this long, and the problem

00:15:45 ◼   ► is I do find it useful to be able to outline these kind of huge stories in a mindmap.

00:15:55 ◼   ► What application is that, by the way?

00:15:56 ◼   ► That's my node, but I'll get to that in a moment.

00:16:00 ◼   ► I also delete a lot of old mindmaps.

00:16:04 ◼   ► Before taking the screenshot I just thought it was funny to keep the iOS 9 mindmap while

00:16:11 ◼   ► taking the screenshot with the iOS 10 one.

00:16:15 ◼   ► So there were other mindmaps, just a couple.

00:16:19 ◼   ► I had one for...

00:16:22 ◼   ► I don't remember, it was a bunch of old articles, like the really long ones, but two other mindmaps.

00:16:27 ◼   ► I don't use it often, I just use it when an article gets too long, when a story has too

00:16:32 ◼   ► many different topics.

00:16:35 ◼   ► The app is MindNode and I'm actually having a bit of trouble and I'm pretty sure it's

00:16:41 ◼   ► because of iOS 10.

00:16:43 ◼   ► So I have iOS 10 beta 1 on my iPhone and on the small iPad Pro.

00:16:48 ◼   ► On the big iPad Pro, which is where I want to write and do my research, I have iOS 9.

00:16:55 ◼   ► And I'm having issues with iCloud sync because MindNode uses iCloud Drive.

00:17:01 ◼   ► I'm not sure what is going on, I mean, it has to be some kind of compatibility problem

00:17:06 ◼   ► or whatever.

00:17:07 ◼   ► But basically the mind maps are not showing up on all of my devices.

00:17:11 ◼   ► So if this doesn't work out I'll probably be switching to iThoughts, which is this other

00:17:15 ◼   ► mind mapping app for iOS, that I actually also used last year, because I started in

00:17:23 ◼   ► MindNode and eventually moved to iThoughts, because of some of the, I think, markdown

00:17:29 ◼   ► and image features, but MineNode has some updates lately. Anyway, this is way too nerdy.

00:17:35 ◼   ► We might come back to this at some point.

00:17:37 ◼   ► We'll come back to this. Anyway, if it's not MineNode, it'll be iThoughts, which uses Dropbox.

00:17:44 ◼   ► So yeah, the work actually started when we were in San Francisco, Myke, because I went

00:17:49 ◼   ► to the sessions, I was taking notes. So right now I'm at the stage where I've attended a

00:17:57 ◼   ► a few sessions that I really wanted to go to. I've watched some of the videos of sessions

00:18:03 ◼   ► that I missed because we were busy doing our own road trips and stuff. And so I have a

00:18:11 ◼   ► few, by few I mean like 10 to 15 maybe, notes in the Apple Notes app and these are all unstructured

00:18:22 ◼   ► and comments from me.

00:18:24 ◼   ► Why do you keep separate notes? Is it on different topics?

00:18:27 ◼   ► It's on different topics and I have different notes for Siri, Proactive stuff,

00:18:37 ◼   ► subscriptions for example, you know, all these different features are in a

00:18:42 ◼   ► different note and I also have a master note where I keep my general like

00:18:48 ◼   ► thoughts, my high-level comments. And I have a list of minor features and changes that

00:18:56 ◼   ► I also want to tackle at the end of the review. So what I'm trying, at this point I'm at the

00:19:02 ◼   ► stage where I think I have an idea for the introduction, and I need to kind of think

00:19:11 ◼   ► about that and visualize that.

00:19:14 ◼   ► But do you need to write the introduction first?

00:19:17 ◼   ► Yes, yeah, I always do that because it kind of puts me in a mood where I know what kind of...

00:19:25 ◼   ► The style or the tone?

00:19:29 ◼   ► What kind of style, what kind of tone, what kind of steps I need to follow?

00:19:32 ◼   ► What kind of angle I want to have? And this is...

00:19:35 ◼   ► We've talked about this. This is how I write. I need to find an angle.

00:19:40 ◼   ► I need to find a story before I move on to the next steps.

00:19:44 ◼   ► So I think I found what I want to talk about

00:19:46 ◼   ► And I have all of these different notes. So I'll be finishing up the the session videos that I missed and now

00:19:55 ◼   ► after that, I'll need to

00:19:58 ◼   ► visualize everything on a mind map and

00:20:00 ◼   ► I need to do that because for

00:20:04 ◼   ► Stories that are this long, you know with multiple pages on the site

00:20:11 ◼   ► The mind map helps me view the weight of each section visually.

00:20:20 ◼   ► So depending on all of the branches, all of the subnodes and the comments,

00:20:26 ◼   ► at a glance I can see which section is going to be heavier in terms of content

00:20:33 ◼   ► and in terms of research than others, and I can try to move things around

00:20:38 ◼   ► to give the review a better flow so that I don't have like three really content-heavy

00:20:45 ◼   ► sections all clustered in the same, you know, next to each other.

00:20:51 ◼   ► If you look at the iOS 9 review last year, for example, there were shorter sections such

00:20:56 ◼   ► as mail or share sheet kind of in the middle just to kind of break the flow and give the

00:21:02 ◼   ► review a different rhythm so it could read better for people.

00:21:06 ◼   ► But I'm sure that you would change, I assume that it goes through quite a lot of changes, the introduction.

00:21:11 ◼   ► Oh yeah, it goes through many many changes and this is what I do during the summer when I write.

00:21:19 ◼   ► If I think of a nice sentence or of a nice point, something that sounds nice and that I don't have in the review,

00:21:26 ◼   ► review, either I make a note real quick or I just put it in the mind map, give it a different

00:21:36 ◼   ► color or like a sticker or like I make it bold, whatever, just to indicate that I need

00:21:41 ◼   ► to add that point.

00:21:43 ◼   ► And as I go through each section, I collapse all of the different branches so I know when

00:21:51 ◼   ► a section is done.

00:21:54 ◼   ► And that's the advantage of a mindmap, that it also, in addition to a visual aid for understanding

00:22:01 ◼   ► like the importance of sections, it also lets me view progress.

00:22:06 ◼   ► So as I close down a branch, I know that I'm done, and I can move to the next one.

00:22:11 ◼   ► So last year I had this mindmap structured in two halves, and as soon as I was done with

00:22:19 ◼   ► the right one with the right side, I knew that the left side was easier because it was

00:22:26 ◼   ► smaller sections, and that really helped me in the end.

00:22:29 ◼   ► This year, one change that I want to make is I want to write the review in Ulysses,

00:22:36 ◼   ► and of course I also have a backup in Dropbox, but I want to have each section as a Ulysses

00:22:43 ◼   ► sheet and I want to see if by using filters in the app and by... this is

00:22:51 ◼   ► actually CGP Grey gave me this tip... by using multiple sheets and then by

00:22:57 ◼   ► sorting them by modification date I can see which section needs work so that the

00:23:04 ◼   ► you know the ones that I modified go to the bottom and the ones that I

00:23:08 ◼   ► haven't touched in a while float back to the top so I can see where I need to get

00:23:13 ◼   ► my writing done, which is a different sort of process. Usually I tend to write sequentially,

00:23:20 ◼   ► so I go from the introduction to the very end. Maybe this year, because there's no big

00:23:27 ◼   ► story like last year with the iPad multitasking, essentially iOS 10 is a bunch of iPhone changes.

00:23:35 ◼   ► So maybe this year not doing writing sequentially could be possible. There are some themes that

00:23:43 ◼   ► need to be developed throughout the review from top to bottom, but some changes, I mean,

00:23:48 ◼   ► I can write one section before the other one and there's no problem for me.

00:23:53 ◼   ► So it's gonna be slightly different from last year, and I'm pretty confident that it's gonna

00:23:58 ◼   ► be easier, especially because there's no huge feature like App and multitasking, and a lot

00:24:04 ◼   ► of work that went into the iOS 9 review last year can be used this year, so I don't need

00:24:09 ◼   ► to repeat myself for like split view what it means, you know, that kind of stuff. That's

00:24:13 ◼   ► already done. Thank you Apple for not doing any more iPad changes yet.

00:24:18 ◼   ► That's an interesting stance from you now. I say you've changed man, you've changed.

00:24:24 ◼   ► Well I mean, do I need to be upset? Well I mean, you know, now you have your own

00:24:28 ◼   ► ulterior motives here, right? Because you don't want to have to write so much. The

00:24:34 ◼   ► Federico Vittucci of old would be looking at you now and being like "buddy, no iPad

00:24:37 ◼   ► stuff?"

00:24:38 ◼   ► I'm upset, yeah I know. And another...

00:24:42 ◼   ► You're a slave to the review, Federico.

00:24:44 ◼   ► Yeah, at this point I am. Another point, another point. Last year, if you remember Myke, I

00:24:53 ◼   ► don't want to say I wasted time, but I, let's say I invested a few weeks of my review time

00:25:01 ◼   ► work on these two stories for the website. One was about Safari View Controller, the

00:25:07 ◼   ► other was about Search, Spotlight Search, Proactive, that kind of stuff. And the idea

00:25:14 ◼   ► was there were two important features that could be developed as standalone stories on

00:25:20 ◼   ► the site. So I took the time off from the review, I used the research that I had, so

00:25:28 ◼   ► notes and my comments for those two individual articles. They went really well, but they

00:25:35 ◼   ► took time off from my review time and when the time came that I needed to have those

00:25:41 ◼   ► sections again, I spent way too much time trying to adapt those articles back into the

00:25:47 ◼   ► review. So I don't think I'm gonna do standalone iOS 10 feature stories this year, so I'm just

00:25:55 ◼   ► gonna focus on the review and it's kinda... I feel kinda itchy every time I see someone

00:26:03 ◼   ► working on iOS 10 stories now because, you know, I wanna talk about it, I wanna write

00:26:09 ◼   ► about it, but I just gotta keep my eyes set on the prize, which is the final review for

00:26:16 ◼   ► the final version. I know that there's some stuff I could talk about now, I could write

00:26:22 ◼   ► about messages, I could write about changes for developers, but I gotta keep in mind that

00:26:29 ◼   ► people are expecting my review at the end, and I'm a single person and I wanna do this

00:26:35 ◼   ► right, I don't wanna go crazy like last year, I feel like I'm on schedule, actually last

00:26:41 ◼   ► year I started writing by the mid of July, this year it's not even the end of June and

00:26:46 ◼   ► I'm already starting. So, you know, you gotta keep focused and just work on the review.

00:26:56 ◼   ► It's gonna be a long summer, buddy. I know, I know. But, you know, I mean, in a way, it's

00:27:01 ◼   ► kinda nice, like the way that I think of this, this was the conversation that would happen

00:27:05 ◼   ► on ATP, right? You'd hear those guys on ATP and they'd be talking to John and asking him

00:27:09 ◼   ► how the review's gone. Now John is done and that has moved to us now. So me and, it's

00:27:14 ◼   ► and Steven's job to keep this dream alive and we ask you questions and then you can

00:27:20 ◼   ► go huh and then we'll move on. We are just keeping the ball rolling man, this is the

00:27:25 ◼   ► cycle of life. Yeah and I need to say that Myke and Steven will be helping me throughout

00:27:34 ◼   ► the summer. I'll be sending you guys screenshots. We get our own jobs to do. Questions. I mean,

00:27:42 ◼   ► If you want to do this on the show, you gotta help me out, you know, after the show.

00:27:46 ◼   ► So yeah, it'll be interesting. I really mean this, but I think it's gonna be...

00:27:52 ◼   ► I mean, it's not gonna be easy, it's gonna be slightly easier than last year.

00:27:57 ◼   ► I spent so much time doing the sections on iPad multitasking, the speciality of multitasking,

00:28:03 ◼   ► the design, the architecture, it was like half of the review was all about iPad multitasking.

00:28:08 ◼   ► Now, I mean, it's not like we haven't got features this year because we got Siri, we've got messages, but I feel like that's more...

00:28:16 ◼   ► I mean, that's more fun, especially messages. It's also easier because there's no huge architectural change or

00:28:24 ◼   ► behavioral change on the iPad, which was really huge for me. And I get to reuse a lot of what I did last year.

00:28:32 ◼   ► I mean, even if you look at Safari, if you look at the Notes app, for example, there's some new stuff.

00:28:37 ◼   ► but just it's an incremental upgrade in many many areas of the OS. So we'll see.

00:28:43 ◼   ► Yeah I mean I guess you've done a lot of the groundwork because Apple did the groundwork last year on those.

00:28:50 ◼   ► Yeah I mean San Francisco, the font, oh my gosh.

00:28:52 ◼   ► You don't need to waste time on that stuff.

00:28:54 ◼   ► The section killed me last year. So yeah we'll see. Right now I would say I'm 70% optimistic about my status right now.

00:29:07 ◼   ► >> Another thing, I mentioned how we're taking the mantle from ATP for this review thing.

00:29:14 ◼   ► Next up in that idea is next up on follow up 30 minutes into the show. Many weeks ago,

00:29:20 ◼   ► many, many weeks ago, I gave a kind of a review of the Canary home security system that I

00:29:27 ◼   ► bought. And at that time, the thing that I felt the Canary was missing and that I was

00:29:31 ◼   ► trying to solve with a third-party application was the ability to set the Canary automatically

00:29:39 ◼   ► at night and unset in the morning without me needing to do anything about that. Now

00:29:44 ◼   ► Canary has made an update to their device, the firmware and also their app, the software

00:29:51 ◼   ► to change their modes and now they have, it used to be like privacy, armed and unarmed

00:29:58 ◼   ► I think it was basically what it was. But now we have away, home and night. So away

00:30:05 ◼   ► it sets, you know, it does that automatically when you leave. At home that means it's in

00:30:09 ◼   ► privacy mode so there's no video being recorded right now because I'm at home. But now we

00:30:14 ◼   ► have night mode which is so happy exists. Basically what happens now is you can set

00:30:20 ◼   ► in the canary application for the home security camera, that's what it is, to turn on the

00:30:27 ◼   ► at night at a time use that you set so that like so you could say oh we have it

00:30:34 ◼   ► to at 2 a.m. the canary goes into armed mode so it's recording any activity so

00:30:40 ◼   ► if there's any movement it will pick it up and then at 7 a.m. it will um it will

00:30:46 ◼   ► unarmed again so it won't be picked up by anybody moving around the house so

00:30:49 ◼   ► I'm really happy about this it's actually made it even better for me

00:30:53 ◼   ► because now it's doing exactly what I wanted because there was some weird kind

00:30:57 ◼   ► of weird bugs and edge cases I was running into by using a third party

00:31:01 ◼   ► system to kind of hack the settings in a way like to it was like if me and Adina

00:31:06 ◼   ► were both not at home, let's say we were on holiday, it would still set an

00:31:13 ◼   ► onset because the app was kind of overriding the canaries understanding of

00:31:20 ◼   ► who's at home because it was like I was telling it to unset so if we were both

00:31:26 ◼   ► on holiday, we're on holiday together, at 7am in the morning it would just go into private

00:31:33 ◼   ► mode so it wouldn't be picking up anyone coming home because I was kind of not really doing

00:31:37 ◼   ► what I was supposed to be doing a bit. But now that doesn't happen because it always

00:31:42 ◼   ► pays attention to who's at home before it makes any changes. So like if we're both not

00:31:47 ◼   ► at home now it will still remain set even though we've asked it to unset in the morning.

00:31:52 ◼   ► So I'm really happy about this.

00:31:54 ◼   ► It's made it an even better product for me

00:31:56 ◼   ► because as time was going on, I was getting more and more

00:31:58 ◼   ► concerned about the fact that I had to pay attention

00:32:00 ◼   ► to doing this and turning off the programming

00:32:03 ◼   ► that I had set up every time we went away.

00:32:06 ◼   ► So now it doesn't do this, and the Canary's even better.

00:32:09 ◼   ► And I want to just thoroughly recommend this product again.

00:32:11 ◼   ► We've been living with it for, I don't know,

00:32:14 ◼   ► it's probably six months or something now.

00:32:16 ◼   ► And I absolutely love it.

00:32:17 ◼   ► It gives me the peace of mind.

00:32:19 ◼   ► This is not a sponsor.

00:32:19 ◼   ► Canary have never been a sponsor.

00:32:21 ◼   ► but it gives me the peace of mind that I wanted.

00:32:23 ◼   ► I can check in when I was away,

00:32:25 ◼   ► when I was in San Francisco,

00:32:27 ◼   ► I was able to check in at any time that I wanted to.

00:32:30 ◼   ► I think you probably saw me doing this.

00:32:31 ◼   ► - Yes, yes.

00:32:33 ◼   ► - So like if anything was moving in the house

00:32:35 ◼   ► or one thing that I really loved is I would know

00:32:37 ◼   ► when Adina came home and I knew when she went to work,

00:32:40 ◼   ► which I just like to know that, right?

00:32:42 ◼   ► That's just the way that we are,

00:32:43 ◼   ► we like to know that information.

00:32:45 ◼   ► So yeah, I really love it

00:32:46 ◼   ► and it's continued to be a worthwhile purchase for me.

00:32:49 ◼   ► so I recommend it to anybody that wants a home security system.

00:32:54 ◼   ► The Canary, I'm pretty sure it's getting home kit support with iOS 10, right?

00:33:00 ◼   ► I have no idea about that.

00:33:01 ◼   ► I think it was on a slide at the keynote.

00:33:04 ◼   ► I think so.

00:33:06 ◼   ► Because iOS 10 is adding cameras as home kit devices.

00:33:10 ◼   ► Well, I'm assuming then there would be new hardware that might work.

00:33:13 ◼   ► I think it would be a firmware update.

00:33:15 ◼   ► Interesting. Interesting.

00:33:17 ◼   ► I want to confirm that because if that's the case, I think I'm gonna get one.

00:33:21 ◼   ► Man, if that is the case, I will be very happy because I really love the Canary and that

00:33:26 ◼   ► was something that I was concerned about because I figured I would have to buy something new

00:33:30 ◼   ► because, like, it wouldn't work for me anymore, right?

00:33:35 ◼   ► Like it...

00:33:36 ◼   ► Oh, there's a blog post.

00:33:37 ◼   ► There's a blog post.

00:33:38 ◼   ► There we go.

00:33:39 ◼   ► There's a blog post.

00:33:40 ◼   ► There we go.

00:33:41 ◼   ► HomeKit support is what's coming.

00:33:42 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:33:43 ◼   ► And it looks like that they're gonna be changing something called Canary Plus.

00:33:47 ◼   ► next generation product, Canary Plus. So it's a new camera?

00:33:51 ◼   ► There you go, it's a new product.

00:33:52 ◼   ► Oh okay.

00:33:53 ◼   ► But my hope will be that I will, because you can link Canaries together, so you can have

00:33:57 ◼   ► multiple ones in the house.

00:33:58 ◼   ► Oh yeah.

00:33:59 ◼   ► So when we move, which we will probably have moved hopefully by the time this one comes

00:34:04 ◼   ► out, I mean I was probably going to get a second Canary anyway to put in our new home.

00:34:10 ◼   ► So that will be good because then I could have the HomeKit one, link to the other one.

00:34:13 ◼   ► I figured it would have to be a new device and I'm not upset about this from Canary's

00:34:18 ◼   ► perspective because I think you need to have specific chips in them, don't you?

00:34:22 ◼   ► There's like an Apple chip that goes in HomeKit devices.

00:34:25 ◼   ► Am I remembering that correctly?

00:34:27 ◼   ► No, I think you're right.

00:34:28 ◼   ► Yeah, there's some sort of authentication that they use.

00:34:31 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:34:32 ◼   ► It's hardware based.

00:34:33 ◼   ► I figured that this would happen to me if I wanted to have something HomeKit, but I

00:34:37 ◼   ► just didn't think it was ever going to happen.

00:34:39 ◼   ► So I'm pleased to hear that because I will definitely get a new Canary or an updated

00:34:43 ◼   ► Canary. So that's good for me. Alright. Alright, let's take another break before we finish

00:34:49 ◼   ► follow up. This week's episode is also brought to you by Ministry of Supply. Human sweat.

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00:35:05 ◼   ► rest of the day. This used to happen to me every day. I know so many people that go through

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00:36:48 ◼   ► All right, so Stephen, there was some bad news for you this week, I think.

00:36:55 ◼   ► I'm so sorry.

00:36:56 ◼   ► yeah sometimes things happen and things

00:36:58 ◼   ► that I own become like now I know this

00:37:02 ◼   ► thunderbolt display will be a thing that

00:37:04 ◼   ► you know isn't around forever. I have it

00:37:07 ◼   ► right here. It used to be at home and I

00:37:09 ◼   ► moved it to the office for many reasons

00:37:11 ◼   ► so I'm just I'm just gently touching it

00:37:14 ◼   ► sadly because he's gone. He's gone now.

00:37:17 ◼   ► So I don't know if there's a say right?

00:37:20 ◼   ► Thunderbolt display is five years old

00:37:22 ◼   ► Apple had a little press thing like the

00:37:24 ◼   ► the very end of the week saying we're no longer selling it. There are lots of

00:37:31 ◼   ► third-party alternatives. Super strange thing to say. I mean so I think I think

00:37:38 ◼   ► you guys talked about this on upgrade but I buy into the theory that there is

00:37:43 ◼   ► a new one coming and that their timing got messed up and so the plan to

00:37:49 ◼   ► discontinue these was already in the works and they couldn't do anything

00:37:53 ◼   ► about that. Like if you stopped ordering the parts or you're out of parts you can't build

00:37:56 ◼   ► anymore.

00:37:58 ◼   ► Why do you own one of these? Like this is something that I couldn't really understand

00:38:02 ◼   ► because it feels overpriced anyway like the thing is it's always been a thousand dollars

00:38:07 ◼   ► and it's really expensive. I don't really know like I was kind of laughing on upgrade

00:38:12 ◼   ► about the idea of somebody owning one of these anyway and then Jason reminded me that you

00:38:16 ◼   ► do and I don't know why you do.

00:38:20 ◼   ► And my Twitter followers know that I recently damaged it.

00:38:22 ◼   ► Yeah, what did you do? You dropped it, didn't you?

00:38:24 ◼   ► I dropped it. So there's like a chunk of...

00:38:26 ◼   ► There's like a chunk of little aluminum missing and it messed up the glass.

00:38:30 ◼   ► You escaped nicely from that one.

00:38:32 ◼   ► I did. Because this glass is not like safety glass.

00:38:36 ◼   ► So if you drop the front of an iMac, which I have done,

00:38:40 ◼   ► it turns into some like really sharp pieces of glass you could like cut people with.

00:38:44 ◼   ► It's crazy.

00:38:46 ◼   ► I'll find a picture of it. I'm gonna dig this picture up for the show notes.

00:38:49 ◼   ► dropped a cover glass like my last week

00:38:52 ◼   ► is a genius and it was terrible I had to fill out a lot of paperwork.

00:38:55 ◼   ► Anyways so it's discontinued. I hope

00:39:00 ◼   ► there's a new one coming. The reason I

00:39:02 ◼   ► own it and the reason that I'm interested

00:39:04 ◼   ► in a new one is that it it really serves

00:39:08 ◼   ► as a as a docking station that you can

00:39:10 ◼   ► leave all of your stuff plugged into the

00:39:12 ◼   ► display and then if you're like me with a

00:39:14 ◼   ► MacBook Pro I can just like pick it up

00:39:16 ◼   ► and unplug a couple of things and be like free of my setup. You know I think if

00:39:23 ◼   ► you're running a Mac mini or Mac Pro maybe you have it because it like your

00:39:28 ◼   ► IT department bought it for you. In fact there's a talk on Twitter about who buys these

00:39:31 ◼   ► things like we just spent time in Dropbox and Facebook. Like Dropbox has

00:39:37 ◼   ► bajillions of these things like everywhere you look in Dropbox is it

00:39:42 ◼   ► there's a thunderbolt display. Clearly people like that it's it's branded and

00:39:46 ◼   ► you know it's nice and neat but I like it as a notebook user that I can just

00:39:51 ◼   ► walk away with like a minimal fiddliness. It is expensive there's no way around

00:39:57 ◼   ► that and there's no way around the fact that Apple never updated like since 2011

00:40:05 ◼   ► they haven't done a single thing there been like two firmware updates to it but

00:40:09 ◼   ► even mine I think I wrote in my little blog post of like the saddest thing in

00:40:13 ◼   ► the Apple ecosystem is using a $9 MagSafe 2 adapter on your $1,000 display.

00:40:19 ◼   ► I guess it's the saddest thing.

00:40:22 ◼   ► But it's gone.

00:40:23 ◼   ► I hope there's a new one.

00:40:24 ◼   ► I think it's a market they should be in.

00:40:26 ◼   ► Clearly there's good money to be had, you know, with good margins.

00:40:32 ◼   ► Clearly they want, you know, I think they like that people use them.

00:40:39 ◼   ► And I think that there are a lot of people who really want them.

00:40:41 ◼   ► They are nice displays.

00:40:43 ◼   ► though this isn't Retina, it's still a great display. So I hope a new one's coming, I'm

00:40:49 ◼   ► sure that I will need a new MacBook Pro to drive it, and I'm ready for my new Retina

00:40:54 ◼   ► overlords to come visit. Maybe I'm being mean on you. A little bit. I am being mean on you,

00:41:00 ◼   ► I'm gonna be a bit more mean on you. Do you know what is a really good docking station?

00:41:04 ◼   ► Just a docking station. Right, cause you spent a thousand dollars on a screen, which is also

00:41:11 ◼   ► docking station you could probably spend like $600 on a good screen in a good

00:41:15 ◼   ► docking station like a Thunderbolt docking station. Yeah, so I actually have, it's actually in a

00:41:19 ◼   ► cabinet in this office, I have a Thunderbolt like breakout box, whatever

00:41:24 ◼   ► the one Jason has like the Belkin Thunderbolt dock and it was great I used

00:41:29 ◼   ► it for a really long time and mine actually started getting um getting

00:41:34 ◼   ► flaky so I kind of used that as an excuse to do this but absolutely I mean

00:41:39 ◼   ► can buy a nice like you can go buy a Dell 4k display and a thunderbolt dock

00:41:44 ◼   ► and it's actually probably better than the thunderbolt display but there are

00:41:49 ◼   ► people who want it all in one and so we'll see I'm interested to see what

00:41:54 ◼   ► they do if we if we get new macbook pros and we get new Mac pros and there's not

00:41:59 ◼   ► a right display then I will look at what third-party you know retina level

00:42:04 ◼   ► displays can I purchase and then go back to a setup like that at least at home

00:42:08 ◼   ► and leave the Thunderbolt display here in the office.

00:42:11 ◼   ► But we'll see.

00:42:13 ◼   ► I think it could go either way.

00:42:14 ◼   ► Again, I hope Apple is making something.

00:42:16 ◼   ► I think they are.

00:42:17 ◼   ► I'd be surprised if they bail on the display business,

00:42:22 ◼   ► but you never know.

00:42:26 ◼   ► -Well, we'll watch with bated breath

00:42:29 ◼   ► for the screens that we can plug our iPads into, right?

00:42:32 ◼   ► Isn't that what we're doing? Isn't that it?

00:42:34 ◼   ► No. -So, let me --

00:42:35 ◼   ► Actually, that's a really interesting question.

00:42:37 ◼   ► if I mean if there were a solution to use an iPad with an external display

00:42:44 ◼   ► with the two of you look at that for me it makes no sense right because the

00:42:49 ◼   ► iPads a touch

00:42:51 ◼   ► yes I don't think I don't I don't think it makes any sense right now I wouldn't

00:42:57 ◼   ► say never because who knows like where this is going to go but like there are

00:43:02 ◼   ► are so many parts of that that don't make sense.

00:43:07 ◼   ► But I'm not going to say never on that one, to be honest.

00:43:11 ◼   ► Because let's imagine in five years time,

00:43:13 ◼   ► the iPad is as powerful as I hope it will be.

00:43:16 ◼   ► And I want to sit down at a desk, do podcast editing on it.

00:43:21 ◼   ► And I want to use iOS, but it would

00:43:24 ◼   ► be nice to use an external Apple Pencil, an external trackpad

00:43:27 ◼   ► to do editing and a logic on the iPad.

00:43:31 ◼   ► It doesn't seem like an impossible world to me,

00:43:33 ◼   ► like the same way that people plug their laptops

00:43:35 ◼   ► into these setups.

00:43:37 ◼   ► But I just think right now with the tools

00:43:39 ◼   ► and everything that we have right now with iOS working

00:43:42 ◼   ► as it does right now, it doesn't make any sense.

00:43:43 ◼   ► But I won't fall that out forever.

00:43:45 ◼   ► Federico, do you agree with that?

00:43:47 ◼   ► - I really don't know if I want to

00:43:52 ◼   ► or need to connect my iPad to another display.

00:43:56 ◼   ► I feel like a lot of the reason why I love iOS is that I can touch it all the time.

00:44:04 ◼   ► And I'm not sure...

00:44:06 ◼   ► I have an Apple TV, I never used AirPlay for anything.

00:44:11 ◼   ► I just feel like if you're a desktop person it makes sense to have external monitors.

00:44:16 ◼   ► If you're an iOS person you just get used to the way that it is.

00:44:21 ◼   ► I don't find myself wishing for it or craving any kind of display in any way.

00:44:29 ◼   ► Yeah, but do you think it, like...

00:44:33 ◼   ► Would you say right now that you would never do that?

00:44:37 ◼   ► Never say never for anything, Myke.

00:44:39 ◼   ► Exactly, yeah, exactly.

00:44:40 ◼   ► That's how I feel.

00:44:41 ◼   ► It's like, it seems crazy, but I have two iPads, so...

00:44:46 ◼   ► On a scale of priorities and wishes there's other things I wish for than a display for

00:44:52 ◼   ► my iPad.

00:44:53 ◼   ► That's what I'm saying.

00:44:54 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:44:55 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, I think the only way it would make sense is if the external display is also

00:45:01 ◼   ► like touch sensitive.

00:45:02 ◼   ► So you could have your iPad plugged in and put an app up on it and use it, you know,

00:45:08 ◼   ► in a touch environment.

00:45:09 ◼   ► I don't know, I mean, I think inherently they're just so different that it's not really a thing.

00:45:14 ◼   ► It's something that, you know, people sometimes say, "Oh, I'd love to have more displays."

00:45:17 ◼   ► It's like something to consider. But, you know, overall, like, the Mac hardware—on

00:45:24 ◼   ► the hardware side, at least—is in this just, like, really funky spot of there's

00:45:28 ◼   ► not a lot of good news going on in the Mac hardware scene. It seems like we're

00:45:35 ◼   ► always just right around the corner for something new and magical. And maybe we

00:45:39 ◼   ► are I hope we are but if you were to go

00:45:44 ◼   ► buy a Mac today the only one I would

00:45:45 ◼   ► really ever consider is the iMac I think

00:45:47 ◼   ► everything else is is due for an update

00:45:51 ◼   ► and the rumors peg it with such large

00:45:54 ◼   ► updates that unless you just really need

00:45:56 ◼   ► a notebook

00:45:57 ◼   ► I wouldn't go buy a MacBook Pro right now

00:45:59 ◼   ► yeah but uh I guess we'll see I guess

00:46:03 ◼   ► it's like the you know the year that we

00:46:05 ◼   ► had no devices anywhere until the fall. That's what it feels like to be a Mac user right

00:46:12 ◼   ► now, always on the treadmill of old computers. Federico, you mentioned betas and I want to

00:46:19 ◼   ► just touch base with you, I guess, that's a phrase I'm using now, about what you're

00:46:25 ◼   ► feeling about the betas right now because you mentioned that you'd put iOS on your phone,

00:46:32 ◼   ► I don't know a lot of people that have done that and you are watching, you watch OS3 as

00:46:37 ◼   ► well, right?

00:46:38 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:46:39 ◼   ► So, okay, just flat out, up front, we are not advocating that you do this.

00:46:44 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah.

00:46:45 ◼   ► Don't do it.

00:46:46 ◼   ► The connector podcast is not liable for any issues that you have.

00:46:49 ◼   ► What is it?

00:46:50 ◼   ► The things you gotta say.

00:46:52 ◼   ► Don't do it, file radar, what else?

00:46:54 ◼   ► Yeah, I think that's it.

00:46:56 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:46:57 ◼   ► Bounce to dinos.

00:46:58 ◼   ► Apple people care.

00:46:59 ◼   ► All of the things you gotta say.

00:47:01 ◼   ► That's sad. That's sad, Myke. I would say there's been worse betas in the past. It feels

00:47:17 ◼   ► like it's the most stable beta one. Not the most stable beta, the most stable beta one

00:47:23 ◼   ► I tried on my phone.

00:47:26 ◼   ► I do get the maybe a couple of times a day of home screen crash.

00:47:33 ◼   ► You know when you get the spinner.

00:47:35 ◼   ► Now when I use 10 you don't get the Apple logo, you get the spinner for a home screen

00:47:39 ◼   ► crash.

00:47:40 ◼   ► It's a big change.

00:47:42 ◼   ► I get that a couple of times a day but it takes 5 seconds to restart the home screen

00:47:47 ◼   ► and all of my apps work.

00:47:49 ◼   ► I haven't seen any major showstopper kind of bug, I can get work done on my phone, it's

00:47:55 ◼   ► alright.

00:47:56 ◼   ► There's just some annoyances, such as the home screen crashing thing, and the fact that

00:48:03 ◼   ► if you have a lot of betas from TestFlight, app betas from TestFlight, the App Store,

00:48:09 ◼   ► the update section goes crazy.

00:48:12 ◼   ► Now I basically don't know which updates are for TestFlight apps and which updates are

00:48:18 ◼   ► for apps that are not as bright on my device. It's mentioned in the release notes so I'm

00:48:24 ◼   ► okay with that. It's probably going to get fixed in beta 2. And overall it's a very stable

00:48:29 ◼   ► beta and it's supposed to be a lot better based on what I heard last week. It's supposed

00:48:34 ◼   ► to be a lot better even in beta 2. So I want to say solid job on the first beta of iOS

00:48:40 ◼   ► 10.

00:48:40 ◼   ► I wanted to ask you about the multilingual keyboard.

00:48:43 ◼   ► Alright.

00:48:44 ◼   ► Because I can't imagine that there are really that many people that talk or write about this stuff that need...

00:48:50 ◼   ► That's the English perspective, right?

00:48:52 ◼   ► No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no

00:48:52 ◼   ► No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no

00:49:22 ◼   ► I get that, I get what you mean, I get what you mean.

00:49:24 ◼   ► It's amazing. It's seriously one of the best changes to your standing ears.

00:49:30 ◼   ► So if you happen to be one of those people who constantly needs to type into, what do you call it, Latin-based languages,

00:49:43 ◼   ► so you know the QWERTY keyboard, such as in my case English and Italian, you can now...

00:49:51 ◼   ► So it used to be you needed to switch between the English keyboard and the Italian keyboard

00:49:55 ◼   ► before iOS 10.

00:49:57 ◼   ► Because otherwise you wouldn't be able to type for example in Italian using the English

00:50:00 ◼   ► keyboard because our correct would go crazy and it just, you know, it was the English

00:50:05 ◼   ► keyboard for English words.

00:50:07 ◼   ► So you needed to switch all the time and the keyboard switcher was slow, only iMessage

00:50:14 ◼   ► could remember different keyboards for each conversation, but the whole system was kinda

00:50:20 ◼   ► crappy.

00:50:21 ◼   ► In iOS 10 you can install the keyboards from the settings, as usual, but then you don't

00:50:28 ◼   ► have to switch anymore, because let's say that I'm talking to Myke and I'm using the

00:50:32 ◼   ► English keyboard, then I switch conversation, I'm talking to my mom and I need to type in

00:50:37 ◼   ► in Italian.

00:50:37 ◼   ► I don't need to switch to the Italian keyboard anymore.

00:50:40 ◼   ► I can just keep writing in Italian

00:50:43 ◼   ► from the English keyboard.

00:50:44 ◼   ► And as soon as the iOS keyboard picks it up

00:50:47 ◼   ► that I'm typing in Italian, it gives me

00:50:49 ◼   ► autocorrect suggestions in Italian,

00:50:51 ◼   ► and it also suggests emoji in Italian.

00:50:54 ◼   ► So it's not just words.

00:50:56 ◼   ► It's also emoji, and it's amazing.

00:50:58 ◼   ► And I've been testing this for the past week.

00:51:02 ◼   ► - And I'm happy to say--

00:51:03 ◼   ► - I'm happy to say that it's beta.

00:51:05 ◼   ► to be as a final radar. But no, it really does work. It's seriously one of the changes

00:51:14 ◼   ► that is going to make me save a lot of time every day. Because those few seconds that

00:51:19 ◼   ► you switch within keyboards, they do add up over time. Like, it takes a couple of seconds

00:51:24 ◼   ► every time. Imagine that, like, 20 seconds per day at least, maybe even 30 seconds per

00:51:29 ◼   ► day for, I don't know how many days, for how many years, and it's a lot of time. And it's

00:51:35 ◼   ► It's not just time, it's a lot of muscle memory kind of annoyance, you know, to do this all

00:51:41 ◼   ► the time.

00:51:42 ◼   ► It's annoying, it's tedious, and now it works from a single keyboard, and I'm so surprised

00:51:48 ◼   ► that Apple is doing this, because I thought I was generally the only person complaining

00:51:53 ◼   ► about this, but I do have to mention a lot of...

00:51:58 ◼   ► I don't remember the names, and I'm sorry, there's only one Spanish website that comes

00:52:03 ◼   ► of mine, it's called Apple Sphera, I think. But there's a lot of international Apple

00:52:07 ◼   ► blogs that brought up this complaint over the years. So it does feel like a small victory

00:52:13 ◼   ► for us, especially us Europeans. I know I got quite a few colleagues in Brazil, for

00:52:19 ◼   ► example, and I know that those people brought up this problem many, many times in the past.

00:52:24 ◼   ► So it does feel like it's a small victory for us, and it's very impressive. Now, the

00:52:32 ◼   ► The thing is, it doesn't work for languages that use different keyboards.

00:52:37 ◼   ► And by different keyboards I mean you cannot do English and Chinese, or English and Russian

00:52:44 ◼   ► Cyrillic alphabet at the same time.

00:52:47 ◼   ► So it only applies to Latin-based keyboards and languages.

00:52:51 ◼   ► But in my experience it works really well, and it's an amazing change.

00:52:54 ◼   ► So yeah, really happy about this.

00:52:56 ◼   ► How are you feeling about WatchOS 3?

00:52:59 ◼   ► I'm very interested in speed.

00:53:02 ◼   ► Host of MacPow users, David Sparks,

00:53:04 ◼   ► wrote a really nice little post about this a few days ago,

00:53:06 ◼   ► 'cause David, I think, installed it in San Francisco,

00:53:10 ◼   ► 'cause that's, he's a crazy person.

00:53:12 ◼   ► - But he does.

00:53:13 ◼   ► - But I'm interested in if you've noticed any speed changes

00:53:16 ◼   ► and if they're applying to third-party applications

00:53:19 ◼   ► that you're already using

00:53:20 ◼   ► that haven't obviously been updated.

00:53:23 ◼   ► - So it is faster.

00:53:25 ◼   ► It's not as amazing as what Apple showed at the keynote.

00:53:29 ◼   ► Well, because that's Watch 2, but that's another story.

00:53:32 ◼   ► Or developers need to work to get there.

00:53:35 ◼   ► I don't know if just--

00:53:36 ◼   ► Well, but are you finding the speed being

00:53:39 ◼   ► instant on Apple apps?

00:53:41 ◼   ► Yeah, also Apple apps, yeah.

00:53:43 ◼   ► OK.

00:53:44 ◼   ► I mean, even if you launch the Home app, for example,

00:53:46 ◼   ► it takes a solid four seconds for it to update and to give me

00:53:50 ◼   ► the status of my lights.

00:53:51 ◼   ► So it's not as immediate.

00:53:52 ◼   ► And the Home app is pinned to my dock, whatever the name is.

00:53:57 ◼   ► So it's still not there.

00:53:58 ◼   ► It's faster, way way better, at least in terms of... I mean, I love the dock idea.

00:54:03 ◼   ► I feel like it needs to be a little more intuitive to be able to swipe between apps, because

00:54:08 ◼   ► I feel like I need to time or at least to control my swipe so that I don't jump over

00:54:13 ◼   ► the next app. But that'll get better with the betas. I do like the idea a lot, and I'm

00:54:20 ◼   ► sure that developers, as soon as they update with WatchOS 3 support, it'll be even faster.

00:54:25 ◼   ► The general idea is I think watchOS 3 will make me love the Apple Watch, eventually.

00:54:34 ◼   ► I do feel like I've been down on the Apple Watch because of the two problems.

00:54:41 ◼   ► One was the performance and the second one was the software just had too many places

00:54:46 ◼   ► where it didn't make sense.

00:54:48 ◼   ► The friends interface, the going back and forth with the Honeycomb.

00:54:52 ◼   ► I feel like the changes coming with watchOS 3, the dock, the speed improvements, how you

00:54:59 ◼   ► can move between watch faces, I feel like I'll be... this is like the watchOS that I

00:55:06 ◼   ► wanted to have from the beginning.

00:55:08 ◼   ► And I feel like as soon as I have watchOS 3 and the watch 2, I'm probably gonna be a

00:55:14 ◼   ► watch person like all the way in the Apple Watch.

00:55:18 ◼   ► Because I saw you, Myke, using the Apple Watch, you use your Apple Watch all the time, I saw

00:55:24 ◼   ► you how much you depend on notifications, and I wanna be like you, and I feel like,

00:55:29 ◼   ► I'm honest here, I feel like watch rest 3 and watch 2, that'll do the job for me.

00:55:36 ◼   ► Yeah, I am one of four.

00:55:39 ◼   ► I am someone who uses the watch a lot and enjoys their Apple Watch a lot.

00:55:44 ◼   ► and Jason spoke on Upgrade a few weeks ago in defense of the Apple Watch, I feel like,

00:55:49 ◼   ► against people that are... There's been a lot of complaints about it, basically, and

00:55:53 ◼   ► a lot of people saying that they've stopped using it, Steven being one of them, people

00:55:57 ◼   ► giving up on it. But as the episode was called "Happy Apple Watch Users", I am one, and I'm

00:56:03 ◼   ► looking forward to being even more happy about using the Apple Watch when it becomes even

00:56:09 ◼   ► more useful with watchOS 3. So it's good to hear that it's getting better and you know

00:56:15 ◼   ► I know I make like dumb jokes but like I really do believe that the speed that they showed

00:56:19 ◼   ► on stage is probably most likely achieved by another watch which is you know it's still

00:56:25 ◼   ► correct what they're showing watchOS 3 will be faster but any amount of faster is better

00:56:32 ◼   ► than what we currently have. So I'm looking forward to trying it out for myself and of

00:56:36 ◼   ► Of course it's probably worth mentioning, it probably isn't as fast in beta 1 as it

00:56:41 ◼   ► will be by the time it's released anyway, right?

00:56:44 ◼   ► There is a strong chance that they will continue to tweak as it goes along through the beta

00:56:48 ◼   ► period to make it even faster and more responsive so I'm very interested to see what that ends

00:56:54 ◼   ► up looking like.

00:56:56 ◼   ► Now one of the biggest features, and I know it's one that I'm excited about for iOS 10

00:57:02 ◼   ► and I know that it's met with different feelings by many different people is messages and I

00:57:07 ◼   ► have played around with messages with Federico on iOS and we should talk about that but before

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00:58:59 ◼   ► So I put iOS 10 on my iPad Air 2 which is a device that has kind of just been sitting

00:59:07 ◼   ► waiting for me to turn into something. I plan to again when I move into my own home to mount

00:59:13 ◼   ► that iPad in the kitchen somewhere. That is a plan that I have because I think it would

00:59:17 ◼   ► be really nice to have a dedicated device for recipes and stuff. But until then it's

00:59:22 ◼   ► just been sitting there waiting for, you know, to be put to use and it has been put to use

00:59:26 ◼   ► as my iOS 10 device. And the only real thing that I've played around with because it seems

00:59:31 ◼   ► to be the only real thing that I can do right now with it is to send crazy messages to Federico

00:59:36 ◼   ► Yeah, pretty much. And we have been. It is incredibly buggy, which is expectable, expected

00:59:43 ◼   ► I think at this point. There are little UI bugs all over the place, but it does work

00:59:48 ◼   ► and I do really enjoy it. So we're talking about the effects that you can do to make

00:59:53 ◼   ► the messages kind of explode. Federico sent me one message which was basically playing

01:00:01 ◼   ► like lasers and strobe lights with a little sound.

01:00:04 ◼   ► And even though my iPad was in mute,

01:00:07 ◼   ► the sound kept playing every time I opened my message

01:00:09 ◼   ► to that, which is awesome.

01:00:10 ◼   ► - Sorry.

01:00:11 ◼   ► - So like every time I opened my iPad, a rave would begin.

01:00:15 ◼   ► And there was nothing I could do about that.

01:00:17 ◼   ► So these are the kinds of bugs, but it is fun, right?

01:00:19 ◼   ► I love the handwriting stuff that you can do.

01:00:22 ◼   ► So you can draw little handwritten messages,

01:00:24 ◼   ► which I will probably send all of my messages that way now

01:00:27 ◼   ► with my Apple pencil, right?

01:00:28 ◼   ► Just draw a little handwritten one.

01:00:29 ◼   ► The stickers are really good.

01:00:30 ◼   ► so they have the classic Mac stickers there.

01:00:33 ◼   ► Something that I don't recall seeing in the keynote

01:00:37 ◼   ► is there's GIFs, there's a GIF app

01:00:40 ◼   ► just built into messages.

01:00:42 ◼   ► And you can search for GIFs and it will give you GIFs

01:00:44 ◼   ► and it has popular GIFs and that all works really well.

01:00:47 ◼   ► So I'm happy to see that because that's much easier

01:00:51 ◼   ► than opening an app to do it.

01:00:52 ◼   ► And digital touches there, and that's kind of cool.

01:00:56 ◼   ► I like that you can take photos

01:00:58 ◼   ► and draw on the digital touches.

01:01:00 ◼   ► you can send a heartbeat, which I'm not 100% sure

01:01:03 ◼   ► is real in any way, 'cause I don't know where my iPad

01:01:07 ◼   ► is getting my heartbeat from.

01:01:09 ◼   ► But I think it's really good.

01:01:12 ◼   ► I think it makes messages feel young and alive again.

01:01:16 ◼   ► I showed some of this stuff to Adina,

01:01:18 ◼   ► and she said, "It looks like Facebook Messenger."

01:01:20 ◼   ► And I think that's the point.

01:01:22 ◼   ► I think that's what they're attempting to do here,

01:01:24 ◼   ► was to make Facebook Messenger, like an app like that.

01:01:28 ◼   ► That is what they wanted to do.

01:01:30 ◼   ► So I am very excited about some of the things

01:01:35 ◼   ► that I might be able to do with this down the line.

01:01:38 ◼   ► All of the sticker packs, I'm looking forward to those.

01:01:40 ◼   ► And also some of the apps that people might be making,

01:01:43 ◼   ► like the little game apps or being a way

01:01:46 ◼   ► to send people money in messages and stuff like that.

01:01:49 ◼   ► I'm excited about this.

01:01:50 ◼   ► And now Federico, I don't know if you've tested it

01:01:52 ◼   ► with anyone other than me, but what are your feelings?

01:01:56 ◼   ► Do you kind of agree with me?

01:01:57 ◼   ► I think Messages is the blockbuster announcement.

01:02:00 ◼   ► - It is. - Of WWDC.

01:02:01 ◼   ► And you don't, Lisa, I was spending time with developers

01:02:05 ◼   ► at the conference and I don't wanna say

01:02:08 ◼   ► that no one was excited because I have been talking

01:02:11 ◼   ► to developers who are coming up with some great ideas

01:02:14 ◼   ► and I think it's gonna be super fun for two reasons.

01:02:16 ◼   ► One, to see what developers come up with

01:02:18 ◼   ► and two, to see what App Review rejects this fall.

01:02:21 ◼   ► But we'll talk about this in the future.

01:02:24 ◼   ► But I didn't get the idea that the WWDC crowd was the right one for this kind of announcement.

01:02:30 ◼   ► But I think messages will be super popular.

01:02:33 ◼   ► And I think it's obviously inspired by Facebook Messenger in terms of the big emoji, the GIFs, and the App Platform, the whole idea of a messages app store.

01:02:44 ◼   ► It's also inspired by what others have been doing, if you look at WeChat or Line, for example.

01:02:49 ◼   ► I think it makes messages super fresh.

01:02:54 ◼   ► It's gonna be fun to personalize conversations in a bunch of different ways, thanks to apps,

01:03:02 ◼   ► stickers and that kind of stuff.

01:03:03 ◼   ► There will be a lot of money flowing in the iMessage App Store, especially because it's

01:03:08 ◼   ► super easy for developers to come up with a sticker pack.

01:03:11 ◼   ► I wanna see how Apple will tackle the possible copyright infringement problems, just because

01:03:17 ◼   ► it's so easy to come up with the sticker pack. I mean, it's just a bunch of images, you drop

01:03:21 ◼   ► them in a folder, you run Xcode and you got yourself a sticker pack to sell on the App Store.

01:03:25 ◼   ► I've been thinking about this. I think that they just made the decision to just let it fly and deal

01:03:30 ◼   ► with it on a case-by-case basis. It's like, there's nothing you can do. Like, if you catch it in

01:03:35 ◼   ► review, stop it. If it goes out and then you wait for somebody to complain and then you pull it down,

01:03:40 ◼   ► like, I feel like you either do this or you don't do it. If you do it, this is definitely going to

01:03:43 ◼   ► to happen, so you just need to accept that. I think that's kind of the process that you

01:03:47 ◼   ► go through in coming up with this decision the way that they have.

01:03:50 ◼   ► But I feel like even if you set aside the fun aspect of stickers and little gaming apps,

01:04:00 ◼   ► even from a productivity perspective, I feel like we're going to see utilities on the iMessage

01:04:06 ◼   ► apps or stuff for sharing documents or calendar events or images, media, files. I feel like

01:04:14 ◼   ► it's really up to the developers imagination at this point and it's going to be this fun

01:04:20 ◼   ► place kind of like Facebook messengers. But even for stuff like if you look at what developers

01:04:29 ◼   ► were doing with keyboards in terms of utilities and productivity, imagine that in a much better

01:04:37 ◼   ► native way in iMessage. I don't feel like it's going to move people away from Slack,

01:04:43 ◼   ► of course, but for one-on-one conversations or even smaller groups of people that don't

01:04:48 ◼   ► want to sign up for Slack, I feel like it's going to be possible to save time when sharing

01:04:55 ◼   ► stuff on iMessage that isn't necessarily, you know, King Kardashian stickers or big

01:05:00 ◼   ► emoji. I'm really curious, and I'm getting already a few emails from developers who are

01:05:06 ◼   ► making non-fun, because they're more of utility-based apps for iMessage. I think it's going to be

01:05:14 ◼   ► really interesting to see what they come up with.

01:05:17 ◼   ► I wonder how these apps just being on iOS will affect that, where a lot of people still

01:05:24 ◼   ► want their productivity stuff on the Mac.

01:05:27 ◼   ► And we spoke a little bit about it last week,

01:05:29 ◼   ► these apps are not coming to the Mac to a degree.

01:05:33 ◼   ► Some of it you'll see in like read only,

01:05:35 ◼   ► but it's even I think dependent on exactly

01:05:37 ◼   ► what the app is doing.

01:05:39 ◼   ► And a big reason--

01:05:40 ◼   ► - I think that's so sad.

01:05:42 ◼   ► - It's disappointing, but a big reason that

01:05:45 ◼   ► I actually had thought about but then it didn't come

01:05:47 ◼   ► out of my mouth was the fact that these are going

01:05:51 ◼   ► to be UI kit apps written for iOS,

01:05:53 ◼   ► and of course, if you're on a Mac, it's not very helpful,

01:05:58 ◼   ► 'cause there's still not a great way

01:06:00 ◼   ► to have the same code base on both platforms.

01:06:04 ◼   ► And maybe that's another reason that they're not there,

01:06:09 ◼   ► but I really want to see Messages be a platform

01:06:15 ◼   ► that you can use on either type of device.

01:06:19 ◼   ► And I think even extending it to the web at some point,

01:06:21 ◼   ► like Facebook Messenger is sort of web first

01:06:24 ◼   ► and they have mobile clients,

01:06:25 ◼   ► like why couldn't I sign into iCloud.com

01:06:28 ◼   ► and do like really nice messaging on the web

01:06:31 ◼   ► if I'm at a PC, so I think--

01:06:33 ◼   ► - Could it, I know this is like gonna make people's skin crawl

01:06:37 ◼   ► but could there have been or could there be a way

01:06:40 ◼   ► to make a messages app which is actually just a web view

01:06:44 ◼   ► which could allow for some of this stuff?

01:06:47 ◼   ► Would it work on the web?

01:06:48 ◼   ► Like would you be able to do this stuff

01:06:50 ◼   ► iOS and the web where you can't do it on iOS and the Mac? I mean they would need

01:06:55 ◼   ► to have a technology story there for developers to use but there's nothing

01:07:00 ◼   ► holding them back from doing that. There's nothing holding them back from saying hey if

01:07:03 ◼   ► you want to do it on the Mac this is how you do it or making it really

01:07:07 ◼   ► easy to take an iOS application and port it to the Mac you know in this in this

01:07:13 ◼   ► regard so again I think we're probably not the best three to talk to that talk

01:07:18 ◼   ► to that sort of thing but I know as a user it's going to be disappointing to

01:07:23 ◼   ► like or even frustrating if I'm working on my Mac all day and like needing to

01:07:28 ◼   ► pick up my phone or my iPad to like interact in a way that is meaningful with

01:07:35 ◼   ► with somebody else so maybe it'll come you know maybe it's like we said last

01:07:39 ◼   ► week where they have a plan for this and it just didn't get done but I sure hope

01:07:44 ◼   ► that something's going on there because having messages like fractured to have

01:07:48 ◼   ► like you have these features over here

01:07:50 ◼   ► but if you're on the Mac you don't. Like look at

01:07:52 ◼   ► photos right? Photos on iOS and photos on

01:07:55 ◼   ► the Mac are more or less like lock and

01:07:59 ◼   ► step right? So they added memories to

01:08:01 ◼   ► one the other one got memories and

01:08:04 ◼   ► the face engine got redone, the face engine

01:08:06 ◼   ► got redone on iOS as well. So they can do

01:08:09 ◼   ► it to a degree like that is part of

01:08:11 ◼   ► their strategy for some reason messages

01:08:13 ◼   ► just isn't there yet and I really think

01:08:15 ◼   ► that if messages going to be a real

01:08:17 ◼   ► contender that whatever apps or like stuff that you use within it you have

01:08:23 ◼   ► available no matter where you're sitting and hopefully they get there.

01:08:27 ◼   ► The idea about the contender I don't agree with.

01:08:30 ◼   ► Well I think a good messaging platform is ubiquitous. One reason

01:08:35 ◼   ► Slack is so damn good is that I can use it on any device and it's the same

01:08:40 ◼   ► everywhere. I don't have to think about oh I'm on my iPad so I can't do this

01:08:44 ◼   ► thing in Slack. Well it works the same everywhere.

01:08:46 ◼   ► Well, I would ask that you look at WhatsApp, right?

01:08:49 ◼   ► I mean, the idea of how good the platform is to use

01:08:53 ◼   ► is a different argument to if it will be a success.

01:08:58 ◼   ► Sure.

01:08:59 ◼   ► And I think, like, it depends what you mean by contender.

01:09:02 ◼   ► I'm being facetious, but like, I'm

01:09:04 ◼   ► just trying to understand it, right?

01:09:05 ◼   ► Like, when you say contender, do you

01:09:07 ◼   ► mean as a well-rounded good application

01:09:09 ◼   ► or as a contender to Facebook Messenger WhatsApp Telegram?

01:09:14 ◼   ► Because whilst some of those apps have varying support on different devices, I think as long

01:09:20 ◼   ► as you're on iPhones, Apple is going to be totally fine and they're going to probably

01:09:25 ◼   ► eat up even more of the message market than they currently have.

01:09:28 ◼   ► And not having full support for apps on the Mac is not going to hold them back.

01:09:33 ◼   ► I mean, clearly that's what Apple is thinking about at this point, right?

01:09:37 ◼   ► They have WhatsApp in their sites.

01:09:38 ◼   ► There's no doubt about that.

01:09:39 ◼   ► But as someone who like that's,

01:09:42 ◼   ► and maybe this is the problem,

01:09:43 ◼   ► I just don't want what they want.

01:09:45 ◼   ► Where it's,

01:09:46 ◼   ► I think it is gonna be frustrating for users

01:09:49 ◼   ► and like that's always,

01:09:51 ◼   ► like if Apple's gonna go after WhatsApp, for example,

01:09:54 ◼   ► I think that's fine, like it's great.

01:09:56 ◼   ► Like they should, as a platform vendor,

01:09:58 ◼   ► there should be a really good first party messaging solution

01:10:01 ◼   ► but the iPhone's not Apple's only platform.

01:10:04 ◼   ► And it's, that's where my frustration comes in a little bit

01:10:08 ◼   ► And I'm sure that if they see great success in mobile,

01:10:13 ◼   ► then it's gonna take off and they can put more resources

01:10:16 ◼   ► into it and it'll become a bigger part of their company

01:10:19 ◼   ► and then I think the Mac will benefit from it.

01:10:21 ◼   ► But at this stage at least, I think there's just going

01:10:25 ◼   ► to be this weird dichotomy.

01:10:29 ◼   ► 'Cause they brought it halfway there.

01:10:31 ◼   ► - It is so weird, right?

01:10:32 ◼   ► Because what you just said I totally agree with.

01:10:35 ◼   ► They'll see if it takes off.

01:10:36 ◼   ► they surely already know this. They know how many people use messages right now and that's

01:10:42 ◼   ► got to be enough.

01:10:43 ◼   ► Well they said it's the most used application on the iPhone.

01:10:46 ◼   ► So if nobody's using it on the Mac or they've just decided that this is something they don't

01:10:51 ◼   ► think is important, right? Because they obviously also know how many people use it on the Mac

01:10:57 ◼   ► and maybe that difference is massive. I doubt that but it's just such a weird thing. I mean

01:11:03 ◼   ► maybe there isn't an easy way to make it work so maybe that what they did need to

01:11:08 ◼   ► do was to build some kind of like pseudo UI kit that only works with the messages

01:11:12 ◼   ► app store if that's what I wanted to do.

01:11:14 ◼   ► Well they have that in photos they have UX kit but what I think the

01:11:18 ◼   ► reason is so strange is that whatsapp is just a mobile application like

01:11:24 ◼   ► whatsapp and Facebook messages are just iPhone apps.

01:11:27 ◼   ► Well messages... They have web apps now but yes the point is correct they are

01:11:31 ◼   ► effectively just mobile applications. Right. Messages started life really as

01:11:37 ◼   ► iChat like at least from the Mac user perspective messages got bolted on to

01:11:42 ◼   ► something else that was already there and then to break that and like diverge

01:11:45 ◼   ► down a different path. I understand why they're doing it, I'm not arguing why they're

01:11:49 ◼   ► doing it. It's just like a point of contention I feel that it's like there's

01:11:53 ◼   ► this weird stress between where Apple wants to go and where they are today.

01:11:57 ◼   ► - Yep.

01:11:57 ◼   ► - And how do you get there?

01:11:59 ◼   ► - It's like the Mac app is kind of like

01:12:01 ◼   ► hanging onto the ankles, right?

01:12:03 ◼   ► It's like dragging messages back.

01:12:05 ◼   ► It is weird, it's weird,

01:12:08 ◼   ► 'cause it's weird that you have any support, right?

01:12:11 ◼   ► You put some in, but it's not really good enough.

01:12:13 ◼   ► - But that support is really

01:12:15 ◼   ► why I moved everything to iMessage.

01:12:18 ◼   ► Before, SMS was useful, but if you were at work all day,

01:12:22 ◼   ► and a lot of people, we're lucky,

01:12:24 ◼   ► a lot of people can't use their phones at work.

01:12:26 ◼   ► but we're like, there are rules against it,

01:12:28 ◼   ► active rules against it if you're sitting

01:12:29 ◼   ► at a desk somewhere, someplace secure.

01:12:31 ◼   ► But if it's on the Mac, maybe it's fine.

01:12:34 ◼   ► And so for me, I think one reason I have used iMessages

01:12:37 ◼   ► and don't sign into AIM anymore

01:12:39 ◼   ► is because it's just at the computer.

01:12:41 ◼   ► And when I pick up my iPhone or tablet, it's there.

01:12:43 ◼   ► And that's just gonna be a strange experience.

01:12:46 ◼   ► And maybe it's not as big of a deal as I think it is.

01:12:49 ◼   ► Like this part of my thought process says,

01:12:52 ◼   ► it's really cool that all these apps are there

01:12:54 ◼   ► and we're gonna play with them for a while

01:12:55 ◼   ► And then we're just all going to use stickers.

01:12:57 ◼   ► And like, we're not going to be doing productivity, we're not going to be building virtual ice

01:13:01 ◼   ► cream cones together, even though I want to do that with the two of you guys very badly.

01:13:05 ◼   ► We can do it in real life if we want to.

01:13:07 ◼   ► Yeah, a lot.

01:13:08 ◼   ► I just want to posit one productivity thing.

01:13:12 ◼   ► An app that can schedule calendar events?

01:13:14 ◼   ► That'd be awesome.

01:13:15 ◼   ► Oh.

01:13:16 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:13:17 ◼   ► I'm thinking, see, I'm thinking about that stuff.

01:13:20 ◼   ► events, sharing tasks on something like Trello for example, or sharing files. I'm pretty

01:13:29 ◼   ► sure developers will come up with all kinds of crazy ideas, which is why I mentioned we'll

01:13:33 ◼   ► have to see if App Review likes what is going to happen or if it will be like a repeat of

01:13:39 ◼   ► what happened with widgets and custom keyboards a couple of years ago. We'll see, I don't

01:13:44 ◼   ► know. It's going to be fun. Hopefully Apple learned from their own mistakes and it's

01:13:49 ◼   ► are going to happen again, we'll see. We'll discover the truth in three months.

01:13:56 ◼   ► Truth is out there. Truth is in the cloud.

01:13:58 ◼   ► You just gotta keep waiting for the betas. File those radars, right?

01:14:02 ◼   ► Yeah, always file the radars. Always file the radars.

01:14:05 ◼   ► It really does matter to people at Apple and all the teams. They worked really hard on

01:14:10 ◼   ► this, so file a radar. If you want to find our show notes for this

01:14:14 ◼   ► week's episode, head on over to relay.fm/connecty/97. Oh my word, 97. Are we prepared at all for

01:14:22 ◼   ► episode 100? Don't think so. Nope. If you have any ideas, let us know. If you want to

01:14:28 ◼   ► find Federico online, he is @vitiici on Twitter, and he writes over at maxstories.net and is

01:14:34 ◼   ► the host of Canvas and Remaster as well on relay.fm. Two great shows that you should

01:14:39 ◼   ► check out. Stephen is @ismh on Twitter and he is at 512pixels.net and also the host of

01:14:46 ◼   ► Lift Off and Ungeniusd as well. You should check those shows out, they're a lot of fun.

01:14:50 ◼   ► I am @imike, I-M-Y-K-E. I host too many shows to mention but they are also on Relay.fm as

01:14:55 ◼   ► well. You should, you know, go check them out. They're lots of good shows on Relay.fm.

01:14:59 ◼   ► Thanks again to our sponsors this week, the great people over at Braintree, willing.com

01:15:04 ◼   ► and Ministry of Supply. But most of all, thank you for listening. We'll be back next time.

01:15:09 ◼   ► Until then, say goodbye, gentlemen.

01:15:11 ◼   ► Arrivederci.

01:15:12 ◼   ► Adios.

01:15:12 ◼   ► Adios.