97: 70% Optimistic


00:00:00   (dramatic music)

00:00:02   - From Relay FM, this is Connected, episode number 97.

00:00:10   Today's show is brought to you very kindly

00:00:12   by Ministry of Supply, willing.com, and Braintree.

00:00:16   My name is Myke Hurley.

00:00:17   I am joined by Mr. Steven Hackett.

00:00:19   Hello, Steven Hackett.

00:00:20   - Hello, Michael Hurley.

00:00:22   - And Hark, what is that in the distance?

00:00:23   It is a returning Federico Vittucci.

00:00:25   Hello, Federico.

00:00:26   - Hey, guys.

00:00:27   - So happy to have you back.

00:00:29   I missed you guys last week.

00:00:31   Are you recovered?

00:00:33   Not fully, but I'll get there.

00:00:37   You know, I was thinking there was some kind of irony in the fact that I caught some kind of bug at a developers conference.

00:00:43   Oh, feathery. Have you been working on that all week?

00:00:49   No, I just thought about it like a minute ago.

00:00:53   It's like on Monday of last week. I have a great idea.

00:00:57   No, I get better eventually I think. I just want to get back to work.

00:01:02   But I miss you guys and you did a good job last week. So it's good to be back. Yeah.

00:01:07   I know something that will have helped your...

00:01:10   While you've been sick you've had something to do.

00:01:13   You've had the ability to play with the iPad 9.7.

00:01:18   Not much actually.

00:01:20   No?

00:01:20   Not much. I mean I did... I'm using it. It's just...

00:01:25   Last week I basically didn't touch my devices for like three days.

00:01:31   I was just in bed and I didn't want to see Twitter, I didn't want to see Slack.

00:01:36   So I've been using it for really just the past couple of days actually.

00:01:41   Do I have to say that you were right again?

00:01:48   I mean, you don't have to say it, but I think it would be the right thing to do.

00:01:53   You know?

00:01:54   You think it will.

00:01:55   Okay, so you were right.

00:01:56   Thank you.

00:01:57   You want to say it like in full?

00:02:00   #mikewasright.

00:02:01   Thank you.

00:02:02   Is that what you want to hear?

00:02:03   Yes, that's what I want to hear.

00:02:05   Fine.

00:02:06   So, wow.

00:02:07   So, I'm not going to hear the end of this, I know.

00:02:11   Anyway, you were right when you said that I needed a second device to, you know, especially

00:02:17   during the summer for the iOS 10 beta.

00:02:20   So, this is what I'm doing.

00:02:21   I put the iOS 10 beta 1 on the smaller iPad Pro and I'm keeping iOS 9, at least for the next few betas, until beta 3 or 4.

00:02:30   I'm keeping iOS 9 on the big iPad Pro, which is where I get my writing done, because I just want to have a stable environment.

00:02:39   So the iPad Pro, the small one, two points that immediately caught my attention.

00:02:46   intention, the true tone display you really don't get it until you use it for a few hours.

00:02:53   And it's so... like the best way that I can describe it is it's like night shift for the

00:02:59   day. And by that I mean it makes your... the looking experience, the looking at the screen,

00:03:07   the entire experience, it makes it better, more comfortable. And when you switch back

00:03:12   even to the iPhone, not just to the big iPad Pro, but even to another non-true tone display

00:03:17   device, it looks worse. It looks blue and it looks like, I don't know, it just looks

00:03:24   less comfortable than the true tone display. So definitely one of the technologies that

00:03:31   I would like to see coming to every Apple device.

00:03:34   Yep. It is like Retina in that way. Like I want it on all of my devices now.

00:03:39   And the second aspect I would say is after the big iPad Pro you kind of forget how light

00:03:49   and comfortable and just manageable it is, the 9.7 iPad.

00:03:59   Another point on the other hand that I really remain convinced of is I don't want to get

00:04:09   my writing done on the small iPad Pro. Because the multitasking experience, the split view,

00:04:15   there's really no contest between the big iPad Pro and this one. I mean, it's perfect

00:04:19   for Twitter, reading, catching up on Slack.

00:04:22   I find it as like a convenience as opposed to a way to do serious work. And that's where

00:04:29   I see the two iPads as being different a lot of the time.

00:04:32   Yeah. And I mean, I could get my writing done. It's just, I know what split view, what the

00:04:38   assistant keyboard can be on the Big iPad Pro and I don't want to switch back.

00:04:42   And I was thinking about this even when we were in San Francisco, about the fact that

00:04:48   a lot of people, including me and you, we used to have desktop computer and the portable

00:04:53   computer, we used to have iMacs and MacBooks, and now we were ending up with the Big iPad

00:05:00   Pro and the Small iPad Pro.

00:05:01   And in a way it's sort of like the same idea, which is you have the big device for work

00:05:07   and a small device for everything else, like a portable device that you can carry around

00:05:11   all the time. But there is a difference between the old age, I would say, and the new era,

00:05:17   which is even the big computer, so even the big iPad Pro, I can carry around with me all

00:05:23   the time. And it's got cellular, and it's got, you know, this beautiful display. So

00:05:27   I would say that even if the basic idea is the same, which is you have two computers,

00:05:32   one is big, the other is small. I think we're getting better in terms of portability and

00:05:40   having a computer that's always with you. Because in the old era I couldn't bring the

00:05:44   iMac with me.

00:05:45   No, it's closer to having like a 15 or 17 inch MacBook Pro and a MacBook Air, but that

00:05:52   kind of description doesn't effectively make the point that I'm trying to make. So that's

00:05:57   why I've used like iMac and laptop, even though I'm kind of bending it a little bit in there

00:06:02   but it's to make the point rather than to talk about like the actual logistics of carrying something like this around.

00:06:08   Exactly. Yeah. So I'm very satisfied so far.

00:06:12   That's all I ever want really.

00:06:14   I know. The gold and red smart cover combo looks fantastic. It got Sylvia's own seal of approval.

00:06:24   Oh.

00:06:25   Yeah?

00:06:25   Lucky boy.

00:06:26   So I came back, so I didn't tell her nothing about the fact that I bought an iPad while

00:06:34   I was in San Francisco.

00:06:35   No, I've been meaning to ask you how this went down.

00:06:37   So I knew she wouldn't understand on the phone.

00:06:41   So I kept it a secret.

00:06:44   And I even waited until we were back home, just me and her, not even in the car.

00:06:49   So when I was unpacking, I was like, "Oh, by the way, I bought you a pen, I bought you

00:06:53   a t-shirt, a bunch of stickers."

00:06:56   And then the very last item, I was like, "Oh, by the way, I bought an iPad Pro."

00:07:00   So the immediate reaction was, "Why are you wasting our money?"

00:07:05   Which I was expecting.

00:07:06   Then I explained my reasoning, and I was like, "By the end of this process, when I'm done

00:07:13   with the beta, you can also use this device.

00:07:16   It's not gonna be just mine.

00:07:17   You can also use it with a pencil, you can draw, you can do whatever you want."

00:07:21   So she was like, "Okay, I like this.

00:07:23   I like the idea.

00:07:24   I like the color, the combination of the gold and the red smart cover.

00:07:29   I like it.

00:07:30   So she's happy with it, because she knows eventually she's going to be able to use it

00:07:34   as well.

00:07:35   And in fact, she's thinking about actually getting a red iPhone case, because she likes

00:07:41   the red smart cover so much.

00:07:43   So all's well that ends well, I guess.

00:07:48   I wanted to go back for a second to the multiple computer analogy.

00:07:53   I agree with you Myke, I think it is a little bit closer to like having a 15-inch

00:07:57   MacBook Pro and like the MacBook but what I do find interesting is the idea

00:08:01   that you really prefer doing like some work on one and some work on the other

00:08:07   and I mean going to the desktop and notebook you know idea for a long time I

00:08:15   think people would look at a desktop like an iMac or a Mac Pro or go further back

00:08:19   like a power mac and that's there like that's the work machine like if you're a

00:08:24   designer that's where you're designing or that's where you're producing music or

00:08:27   editing video and you have like a laptop to go to meetings and like do email at

00:08:33   home and you know do like non heavy lifting type tasks and to hear like

00:08:41   that carrying on and to how you guys are using your tablets like I think it's a

00:08:46   really natural evolution I mean I think I mean clearly there are people out

00:08:49   there who think it's ridiculous and I

00:08:51   think that's that's silly because you

00:08:52   guys are super productive you own your

00:08:55   businesses like not much you can complain

00:08:57   about but I just I don't know I find

00:09:00   that that thread continuing today and I

00:09:04   think for a lot of people they're kind

00:09:06   of a step behind you where they're hey I

00:09:08   have a MacBook or a MacBook Pro and

00:09:11   that's where I do my work and then I

00:09:13   have an iPad for like other stuff that's

00:09:15   where I sit right I'd yeah have a lot of

00:09:17   of work I could do on my tablet, but I choose to do it on the Mac still. But there are types

00:09:23   of tasks that are just more comfortable on the iPad. So again, this whole idea of having

00:09:28   multiple machines for multiple things is not a new one, and I think that puts a lot of

00:09:36   credence into what you're saying. Yeah, I think so. I will keep going back to this time

00:09:44   and time again that this is just the machine that I want to do my work on. Luckily or unlikely

00:09:50   enough for me, there are multiple machines, right? But they offer me different, they offer

00:09:57   me more choice than maybe two laptops, you know, in that way I feel like there's big

00:10:02   differences because the software works different. That doesn't really happen very much on the

00:10:06   Mac, right? So we're talking about like, it's not just the space that you get in Splitview,

00:10:11   the keyboard being fundamentally different is a big thing and the 12.9 inch iPad Pro's

00:10:17   keyboard is so much better than the 9.7 just because of all this extra space and the extra

00:10:24   keys. So it's like that is actually kind of a different computer at that point. It's like

00:10:29   imagine having, because Apple doesn't do this right? You don't get two laptops with different

00:10:33   keyboards. They have this, well let's pull the MacBook Adorable out of this for the moment.

00:10:38   Like if you look at the MacBook Pro's size differences, right, they're the same keyboard

00:10:43   over the two different devices, you know, and you have one that is 13 inch and one that

00:10:47   is 15 inch.

00:10:48   So you can't really, I think, compare them in all the same ways.

00:10:51   There's like two laptops.

00:10:53   That's why I think it gets real messy, but I know that it works for me and I'm happy

00:10:57   to hear that it's working for Federico as well.

00:11:00   There was something I wanted to mention to you, TG, about the 9.7.

00:11:06   I think when you use the software keyboard is when the split screen is not very useful

00:11:12   at all, because you've got two apps taking up a small amount of size and then the keyboard

00:11:17   takes up half the screen, so then you kind of have like two quarters, it's not very useful

00:11:22   there.

00:11:23   When you use an external keyboard, the split screen is way better than that.

00:11:27   And I know because you use the software a lot, but now that you're playing around with

00:11:31   external keyboards more, it's better.

00:11:32   So like I always use the smart keyboard, which always on the keyboard cover. I can never

00:11:37   remember. What is that product called?

00:11:39   Smart keyboard.

00:11:40   Smart keyboard. It always confuses me because that feels like that's the magic keyboard.

00:11:45   And then I feel like it should just be called the keyboard cover, but it's not. And then

00:11:48   you have something called the smart cover.

00:11:50   That one's not magic.

00:11:52   Oh, that's a good point. That's a good point. I think it's because it doesn't have a lightning

00:11:56   pull on the bottom of it or something. I don't know. But because I use the keyboard cover,

00:12:02   a lot more, it's not what it's called is it?

00:12:04   What is it called?

00:12:05   Smart keyboard. - Smart keyboard, right.

00:12:07   - Yes. - Oh my word.

00:12:09   Because I use the smart keyboard,

00:12:11   I think it's better for me.

00:12:12   And I think maybe if you use it more

00:12:14   with the hardware keyboard,

00:12:15   you'll feel that you can get more productive work

00:12:18   out of the 9.7 inch screen.

00:12:21   And when I was only using that to travel with,

00:12:25   I was more constrained when I was in San Francisco,

00:12:28   but I was able to do all of the work that I do.

00:12:30   which is a less comfortable environment to do it in.

00:12:32   But it's like when I use the MacBook Pro to edit a show,

00:12:37   it's not as comfortable as when I use my 27-inch iMac

00:12:40   to edit a show.

00:12:41   - I just feel like the small iPad Pro is more,

00:12:45   like it invites me to hold it instead of using a keyboard.

00:12:50   - Yeah, it's way more suitable for consumption of stuff

00:12:54   than the 12-miners, except for video, of course.

00:12:57   But yeah. - Definitely.

00:12:59   We, Sivi and I, we're still watching Orange is the New Black season 4 and it's all on the iPad Pro, the big one.

00:13:07   Just because it's bigger and it looks fantastic.

00:13:10   But definitely I think a keyboard with the split view helps.

00:13:15   It's just, this is the kind of device that I want to hold, that I want to walk around the house with, that I want to sit on the couch with.

00:13:21   with. So I think I'll be doing all my typing on the Big Appet Pro and use the small one

00:13:28   for, you know, Pocket, Twitter, that kind of stuff.

00:13:31   Yeah, and, you know, I do realize when I take the keyboard off sometimes, I'm like "Oh,

00:13:37   this thing is so thin and light!" What a surprise! Oh yeah, that catches me. That catches me

00:13:43   every now and then.

00:13:44   Alright, we haven't even really gotten into follow-up yet, so let's take our first break,

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00:15:05   I am going to ask you now Federico, because you mentioned the review when we were talking

00:15:10   about the 9.7 and I saw you post a tweet the other day with you looked like you were opening

00:15:16   a mind mapping application to begin the mind map for your next review. So I have two kind

00:15:22   of questions for you. One, has the work begun and how is that going? And also, it's very

00:15:28   funny to me that it seems like the only use you have for whatever application this is

00:15:32   is to plan your iOS reviews.

00:15:35   The second question is, I don't usually write articles that are this long, and the problem

00:15:45   is I do find it useful to be able to outline these kind of huge stories in a mindmap.

00:15:55   What application is that, by the way?

00:15:56   That's my node, but I'll get to that in a moment.

00:16:00   I also delete a lot of old mindmaps.

00:16:04   Before taking the screenshot I just thought it was funny to keep the iOS 9 mindmap while

00:16:11   taking the screenshot with the iOS 10 one.

00:16:15   So there were other mindmaps, just a couple.

00:16:19   I had one for...

00:16:22   I don't remember, it was a bunch of old articles, like the really long ones, but two other mindmaps.

00:16:27   I don't use it often, I just use it when an article gets too long, when a story has too

00:16:32   many different topics.

00:16:35   The app is MindNode and I'm actually having a bit of trouble and I'm pretty sure it's

00:16:41   because of iOS 10.

00:16:43   So I have iOS 10 beta 1 on my iPhone and on the small iPad Pro.

00:16:48   On the big iPad Pro, which is where I want to write and do my research, I have iOS 9.

00:16:55   And I'm having issues with iCloud sync because MindNode uses iCloud Drive.

00:17:01   I'm not sure what is going on, I mean, it has to be some kind of compatibility problem

00:17:06   or whatever.

00:17:07   But basically the mind maps are not showing up on all of my devices.

00:17:11   So if this doesn't work out I'll probably be switching to iThoughts, which is this other

00:17:15   mind mapping app for iOS, that I actually also used last year, because I started in

00:17:23   MindNode and eventually moved to iThoughts, because of some of the, I think, markdown

00:17:29   and image features, but MineNode has some updates lately. Anyway, this is way too nerdy.

00:17:35   We might come back to this at some point.

00:17:37   We'll come back to this. Anyway, if it's not MineNode, it'll be iThoughts, which uses Dropbox.

00:17:44   So yeah, the work actually started when we were in San Francisco, Myke, because I went

00:17:49   to the sessions, I was taking notes. So right now I'm at the stage where I've attended a

00:17:57   a few sessions that I really wanted to go to. I've watched some of the videos of sessions

00:18:03   that I missed because we were busy doing our own road trips and stuff. And so I have a

00:18:11   few, by few I mean like 10 to 15 maybe, notes in the Apple Notes app and these are all unstructured

00:18:22   and comments from me.

00:18:24   Why do you keep separate notes? Is it on different topics?

00:18:27   It's on different topics and I have different notes for Siri, Proactive stuff,

00:18:37   subscriptions for example, you know, all these different features are in a

00:18:42   different note and I also have a master note where I keep my general like

00:18:48   thoughts, my high-level comments. And I have a list of minor features and changes that

00:18:56   I also want to tackle at the end of the review. So what I'm trying, at this point I'm at the

00:19:02   stage where I think I have an idea for the introduction, and I need to kind of think

00:19:11   about that and visualize that.

00:19:14   But do you need to write the introduction first?

00:19:17   Yes, yeah, I always do that because it kind of puts me in a mood where I know what kind of...

00:19:25   The style or the tone?

00:19:29   What kind of style, what kind of tone, what kind of steps I need to follow?

00:19:32   What kind of angle I want to have? And this is...

00:19:35   We've talked about this. This is how I write. I need to find an angle.

00:19:40   I need to find a story before I move on to the next steps.

00:19:44   So I think I found what I want to talk about

00:19:46   And I have all of these different notes. So I'll be finishing up the the session videos that I missed and now

00:19:55   after that, I'll need to

00:19:58   visualize everything on a mind map and

00:20:00   I need to do that because for

00:20:04   Stories that are this long, you know with multiple pages on the site

00:20:11   The mind map helps me view the weight of each section visually.

00:20:20   So depending on all of the branches, all of the subnodes and the comments,

00:20:26   at a glance I can see which section is going to be heavier in terms of content

00:20:33   and in terms of research than others, and I can try to move things around

00:20:38   to give the review a better flow so that I don't have like three really content-heavy

00:20:45   sections all clustered in the same, you know, next to each other.

00:20:51   If you look at the iOS 9 review last year, for example, there were shorter sections such

00:20:56   as mail or share sheet kind of in the middle just to kind of break the flow and give the

00:21:02   review a different rhythm so it could read better for people.

00:21:06   But I'm sure that you would change, I assume that it goes through quite a lot of changes, the introduction.

00:21:11   Oh yeah, it goes through many many changes and this is what I do during the summer when I write.

00:21:19   If I think of a nice sentence or of a nice point, something that sounds nice and that I don't have in the review,

00:21:26   review, either I make a note real quick or I just put it in the mind map, give it a different

00:21:36   color or like a sticker or like I make it bold, whatever, just to indicate that I need

00:21:41   to add that point.

00:21:43   And as I go through each section, I collapse all of the different branches so I know when

00:21:51   a section is done.

00:21:54   And that's the advantage of a mindmap, that it also, in addition to a visual aid for understanding

00:22:01   like the importance of sections, it also lets me view progress.

00:22:06   So as I close down a branch, I know that I'm done, and I can move to the next one.

00:22:11   So last year I had this mindmap structured in two halves, and as soon as I was done with

00:22:19   the right one with the right side, I knew that the left side was easier because it was

00:22:26   smaller sections, and that really helped me in the end.

00:22:29   This year, one change that I want to make is I want to write the review in Ulysses,

00:22:36   and of course I also have a backup in Dropbox, but I want to have each section as a Ulysses

00:22:43   sheet and I want to see if by using filters in the app and by... this is

00:22:51   actually CGP Grey gave me this tip... by using multiple sheets and then by

00:22:57   sorting them by modification date I can see which section needs work so that the

00:23:04   you know the ones that I modified go to the bottom and the ones that I

00:23:08   haven't touched in a while float back to the top so I can see where I need to get

00:23:13   my writing done, which is a different sort of process. Usually I tend to write sequentially,

00:23:20   so I go from the introduction to the very end. Maybe this year, because there's no big

00:23:27   story like last year with the iPad multitasking, essentially iOS 10 is a bunch of iPhone changes.

00:23:35   So maybe this year not doing writing sequentially could be possible. There are some themes that

00:23:43   need to be developed throughout the review from top to bottom, but some changes, I mean,

00:23:48   I can write one section before the other one and there's no problem for me.

00:23:53   So it's gonna be slightly different from last year, and I'm pretty confident that it's gonna

00:23:58   be easier, especially because there's no huge feature like App and multitasking, and a lot

00:24:04   of work that went into the iOS 9 review last year can be used this year, so I don't need

00:24:09   to repeat myself for like split view what it means, you know, that kind of stuff. That's

00:24:13   already done. Thank you Apple for not doing any more iPad changes yet.

00:24:18   That's an interesting stance from you now. I say you've changed man, you've changed.

00:24:24   Well I mean, do I need to be upset? Well I mean, you know, now you have your own

00:24:28   ulterior motives here, right? Because you don't want to have to write so much. The

00:24:34   Federico Vittucci of old would be looking at you now and being like "buddy, no iPad

00:24:37   stuff?"

00:24:38   I'm upset, yeah I know. And another...

00:24:42   You're a slave to the review, Federico.

00:24:44   Yeah, at this point I am. Another point, another point. Last year, if you remember Myke, I

00:24:53   don't want to say I wasted time, but I, let's say I invested a few weeks of my review time

00:25:01   work on these two stories for the website. One was about Safari View Controller, the

00:25:07   other was about Search, Spotlight Search, Proactive, that kind of stuff. And the idea

00:25:14   was there were two important features that could be developed as standalone stories on

00:25:20   the site. So I took the time off from the review, I used the research that I had, so

00:25:28   notes and my comments for those two individual articles. They went really well, but they

00:25:35   took time off from my review time and when the time came that I needed to have those

00:25:41   sections again, I spent way too much time trying to adapt those articles back into the

00:25:47   review. So I don't think I'm gonna do standalone iOS 10 feature stories this year, so I'm just

00:25:55   gonna focus on the review and it's kinda... I feel kinda itchy every time I see someone

00:26:03   working on iOS 10 stories now because, you know, I wanna talk about it, I wanna write

00:26:09   about it, but I just gotta keep my eyes set on the prize, which is the final review for

00:26:16   the final version. I know that there's some stuff I could talk about now, I could write

00:26:22   about messages, I could write about changes for developers, but I gotta keep in mind that

00:26:29   people are expecting my review at the end, and I'm a single person and I wanna do this

00:26:35   right, I don't wanna go crazy like last year, I feel like I'm on schedule, actually last

00:26:41   year I started writing by the mid of July, this year it's not even the end of June and

00:26:46   I'm already starting. So, you know, you gotta keep focused and just work on the review.

00:26:56   It's gonna be a long summer, buddy. I know, I know. But, you know, I mean, in a way, it's

00:27:01   kinda nice, like the way that I think of this, this was the conversation that would happen

00:27:05   on ATP, right? You'd hear those guys on ATP and they'd be talking to John and asking him

00:27:09   how the review's gone. Now John is done and that has moved to us now. So me and, it's

00:27:14   and Steven's job to keep this dream alive and we ask you questions and then you can

00:27:20   go huh and then we'll move on. We are just keeping the ball rolling man, this is the

00:27:25   cycle of life. Yeah and I need to say that Myke and Steven will be helping me throughout

00:27:34   the summer. I'll be sending you guys screenshots. We get our own jobs to do. Questions. I mean,

00:27:42   If you want to do this on the show, you gotta help me out, you know, after the show.

00:27:46   So yeah, it'll be interesting. I really mean this, but I think it's gonna be...

00:27:52   I mean, it's not gonna be easy, it's gonna be slightly easier than last year.

00:27:57   I spent so much time doing the sections on iPad multitasking, the speciality of multitasking,

00:28:03   the design, the architecture, it was like half of the review was all about iPad multitasking.

00:28:08   Now, I mean, it's not like we haven't got features this year because we got Siri, we've got messages, but I feel like that's more...

00:28:16   I mean, that's more fun, especially messages. It's also easier because there's no huge architectural change or

00:28:24   behavioral change on the iPad, which was really huge for me. And I get to reuse a lot of what I did last year.

00:28:32   I mean, even if you look at Safari, if you look at the Notes app, for example, there's some new stuff.

00:28:37   but just it's an incremental upgrade in many many areas of the OS. So we'll see.

00:28:43   Yeah I mean I guess you've done a lot of the groundwork because Apple did the groundwork last year on those.

00:28:50   Yeah I mean San Francisco, the font, oh my gosh.

00:28:52   You don't need to waste time on that stuff.

00:28:54   The section killed me last year. So yeah we'll see. Right now I would say I'm 70% optimistic about my status right now.

00:29:07   >> Another thing, I mentioned how we're taking the mantle from ATP for this review thing.

00:29:14   Next up in that idea is next up on follow up 30 minutes into the show. Many weeks ago,

00:29:20   many, many weeks ago, I gave a kind of a review of the Canary home security system that I

00:29:27   bought. And at that time, the thing that I felt the Canary was missing and that I was

00:29:31   trying to solve with a third-party application was the ability to set the Canary automatically

00:29:39   at night and unset in the morning without me needing to do anything about that. Now

00:29:44   Canary has made an update to their device, the firmware and also their app, the software

00:29:51   to change their modes and now they have, it used to be like privacy, armed and unarmed

00:29:58   I think it was basically what it was. But now we have away, home and night. So away

00:30:05   it sets, you know, it does that automatically when you leave. At home that means it's in

00:30:09   privacy mode so there's no video being recorded right now because I'm at home. But now we

00:30:14   have night mode which is so happy exists. Basically what happens now is you can set

00:30:20   in the canary application for the home security camera, that's what it is, to turn on the

00:30:27   at night at a time use that you set so that like so you could say oh we have it

00:30:34   to at 2 a.m. the canary goes into armed mode so it's recording any activity so

00:30:40   if there's any movement it will pick it up and then at 7 a.m. it will um it will

00:30:46   unarmed again so it won't be picked up by anybody moving around the house so

00:30:49   I'm really happy about this it's actually made it even better for me

00:30:53   because now it's doing exactly what I wanted because there was some weird kind

00:30:57   of weird bugs and edge cases I was running into by using a third party

00:31:01   system to kind of hack the settings in a way like to it was like if me and Adina

00:31:06   were both not at home, let's say we were on holiday, it would still set an

00:31:13   onset because the app was kind of overriding the canaries understanding of

00:31:20   who's at home because it was like I was telling it to unset so if we were both

00:31:26   on holiday, we're on holiday together, at 7am in the morning it would just go into private

00:31:33   mode so it wouldn't be picking up anyone coming home because I was kind of not really doing

00:31:37   what I was supposed to be doing a bit. But now that doesn't happen because it always

00:31:42   pays attention to who's at home before it makes any changes. So like if we're both not

00:31:47   at home now it will still remain set even though we've asked it to unset in the morning.

00:31:52   So I'm really happy about this.

00:31:54   It's made it an even better product for me

00:31:56   because as time was going on, I was getting more and more

00:31:58   concerned about the fact that I had to pay attention

00:32:00   to doing this and turning off the programming

00:32:03   that I had set up every time we went away.

00:32:06   So now it doesn't do this, and the Canary's even better.

00:32:09   And I want to just thoroughly recommend this product again.

00:32:11   We've been living with it for, I don't know,

00:32:14   it's probably six months or something now.

00:32:16   And I absolutely love it.

00:32:17   It gives me the peace of mind.

00:32:19   This is not a sponsor.

00:32:19   Canary have never been a sponsor.

00:32:21   but it gives me the peace of mind that I wanted.

00:32:23   I can check in when I was away,

00:32:25   when I was in San Francisco,

00:32:27   I was able to check in at any time that I wanted to.

00:32:30   I think you probably saw me doing this.

00:32:31   - Yes, yes.

00:32:33   - So like if anything was moving in the house

00:32:35   or one thing that I really loved is I would know

00:32:37   when Adina came home and I knew when she went to work,

00:32:40   which I just like to know that, right?

00:32:42   That's just the way that we are,

00:32:43   we like to know that information.

00:32:45   So yeah, I really love it

00:32:46   and it's continued to be a worthwhile purchase for me.

00:32:49   so I recommend it to anybody that wants a home security system.

00:32:54   The Canary, I'm pretty sure it's getting home kit support with iOS 10, right?

00:33:00   I have no idea about that.

00:33:01   I think it was on a slide at the keynote.

00:33:04   I think so.

00:33:06   Because iOS 10 is adding cameras as home kit devices.

00:33:10   Well, I'm assuming then there would be new hardware that might work.

00:33:13   I think it would be a firmware update.

00:33:15   Interesting. Interesting.

00:33:17   I want to confirm that because if that's the case, I think I'm gonna get one.

00:33:21   Man, if that is the case, I will be very happy because I really love the Canary and that

00:33:26   was something that I was concerned about because I figured I would have to buy something new

00:33:30   because, like, it wouldn't work for me anymore, right?

00:33:35   Like it...

00:33:36   Oh, there's a blog post.

00:33:37   There's a blog post.

00:33:38   There we go.

00:33:39   There's a blog post.

00:33:40   There we go.

00:33:41   HomeKit support is what's coming.

00:33:42   Yeah.

00:33:43   And it looks like that they're gonna be changing something called Canary Plus.

00:33:47   next generation product, Canary Plus. So it's a new camera?

00:33:51   There you go, it's a new product.

00:33:52   Oh okay.

00:33:53   But my hope will be that I will, because you can link Canaries together, so you can have

00:33:57   multiple ones in the house.

00:33:58   Oh yeah.

00:33:59   So when we move, which we will probably have moved hopefully by the time this one comes

00:34:04   out, I mean I was probably going to get a second Canary anyway to put in our new home.

00:34:10   So that will be good because then I could have the HomeKit one, link to the other one.

00:34:13   I figured it would have to be a new device and I'm not upset about this from Canary's

00:34:18   perspective because I think you need to have specific chips in them, don't you?

00:34:22   There's like an Apple chip that goes in HomeKit devices.

00:34:25   Am I remembering that correctly?

00:34:27   No, I think you're right.

00:34:28   Yeah, there's some sort of authentication that they use.

00:34:31   Yeah.

00:34:32   It's hardware based.

00:34:33   I figured that this would happen to me if I wanted to have something HomeKit, but I

00:34:37   just didn't think it was ever going to happen.

00:34:39   So I'm pleased to hear that because I will definitely get a new Canary or an updated

00:34:43   Canary. So that's good for me. Alright. Alright, let's take another break before we finish

00:34:49   follow up. This week's episode is also brought to you by Ministry of Supply. Human sweat.

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00:36:48   All right, so Stephen, there was some bad news for you this week, I think.

00:36:55   I'm so sorry.

00:36:56   yeah sometimes things happen and things

00:36:58   that I own become like now I know this

00:37:02   thunderbolt display will be a thing that

00:37:04   you know isn't around forever. I have it

00:37:07   right here. It used to be at home and I

00:37:09   moved it to the office for many reasons

00:37:11   so I'm just I'm just gently touching it

00:37:14   sadly because he's gone. He's gone now.

00:37:17   So I don't know if there's a say right?

00:37:20   Thunderbolt display is five years old

00:37:22   Apple had a little press thing like the

00:37:24   the very end of the week saying we're no longer selling it. There are lots of

00:37:31   third-party alternatives. Super strange thing to say. I mean so I think I think

00:37:38   you guys talked about this on upgrade but I buy into the theory that there is

00:37:43   a new one coming and that their timing got messed up and so the plan to

00:37:49   discontinue these was already in the works and they couldn't do anything

00:37:53   about that. Like if you stopped ordering the parts or you're out of parts you can't build

00:37:56   anymore.

00:37:58   Why do you own one of these? Like this is something that I couldn't really understand

00:38:02   because it feels overpriced anyway like the thing is it's always been a thousand dollars

00:38:07   and it's really expensive. I don't really know like I was kind of laughing on upgrade

00:38:12   about the idea of somebody owning one of these anyway and then Jason reminded me that you

00:38:16   do and I don't know why you do.

00:38:20   And my Twitter followers know that I recently damaged it.

00:38:22   Yeah, what did you do? You dropped it, didn't you?

00:38:24   I dropped it. So there's like a chunk of...

00:38:26   There's like a chunk of little aluminum missing and it messed up the glass.

00:38:30   You escaped nicely from that one.

00:38:32   I did. Because this glass is not like safety glass.

00:38:36   So if you drop the front of an iMac, which I have done,

00:38:40   it turns into some like really sharp pieces of glass you could like cut people with.

00:38:44   It's crazy.

00:38:46   I'll find a picture of it. I'm gonna dig this picture up for the show notes.

00:38:49   dropped a cover glass like my last week

00:38:52   is a genius and it was terrible I had to fill out a lot of paperwork.

00:38:55   Anyways so it's discontinued. I hope

00:39:00   there's a new one coming. The reason I

00:39:02   own it and the reason that I'm interested

00:39:04   in a new one is that it it really serves

00:39:08   as a as a docking station that you can

00:39:10   leave all of your stuff plugged into the

00:39:12   display and then if you're like me with a

00:39:14   MacBook Pro I can just like pick it up

00:39:16   and unplug a couple of things and be like free of my setup. You know I think if

00:39:23   you're running a Mac mini or Mac Pro maybe you have it because it like your

00:39:28   IT department bought it for you. In fact there's a talk on Twitter about who buys these

00:39:31   things like we just spent time in Dropbox and Facebook. Like Dropbox has

00:39:37   bajillions of these things like everywhere you look in Dropbox is it

00:39:42   there's a thunderbolt display. Clearly people like that it's it's branded and

00:39:46   you know it's nice and neat but I like it as a notebook user that I can just

00:39:51   walk away with like a minimal fiddliness. It is expensive there's no way around

00:39:57   that and there's no way around the fact that Apple never updated like since 2011

00:40:05   they haven't done a single thing there been like two firmware updates to it but

00:40:09   even mine I think I wrote in my little blog post of like the saddest thing in

00:40:13   the Apple ecosystem is using a $9 MagSafe 2 adapter on your $1,000 display.

00:40:19   I guess it's the saddest thing.

00:40:22   But it's gone.

00:40:23   I hope there's a new one.

00:40:24   I think it's a market they should be in.

00:40:26   Clearly there's good money to be had, you know, with good margins.

00:40:32   Clearly they want, you know, I think they like that people use them.

00:40:39   And I think that there are a lot of people who really want them.

00:40:41   They are nice displays.

00:40:43   though this isn't Retina, it's still a great display. So I hope a new one's coming, I'm

00:40:49   sure that I will need a new MacBook Pro to drive it, and I'm ready for my new Retina

00:40:54   overlords to come visit. Maybe I'm being mean on you. A little bit. I am being mean on you,

00:41:00   I'm gonna be a bit more mean on you. Do you know what is a really good docking station?

00:41:04   Just a docking station. Right, cause you spent a thousand dollars on a screen, which is also

00:41:11   docking station you could probably spend like $600 on a good screen in a good

00:41:15   docking station like a Thunderbolt docking station. Yeah, so I actually have, it's actually in a

00:41:19   cabinet in this office, I have a Thunderbolt like breakout box, whatever

00:41:24   the one Jason has like the Belkin Thunderbolt dock and it was great I used

00:41:29   it for a really long time and mine actually started getting um getting

00:41:34   flaky so I kind of used that as an excuse to do this but absolutely I mean

00:41:39   can buy a nice like you can go buy a Dell 4k display and a thunderbolt dock

00:41:44   and it's actually probably better than the thunderbolt display but there are

00:41:49   people who want it all in one and so we'll see I'm interested to see what

00:41:54   they do if we if we get new macbook pros and we get new Mac pros and there's not

00:41:59   a right display then I will look at what third-party you know retina level

00:42:04   displays can I purchase and then go back to a setup like that at least at home

00:42:08   and leave the Thunderbolt display here in the office.

00:42:11   But we'll see.

00:42:13   I think it could go either way.

00:42:14   Again, I hope Apple is making something.

00:42:16   I think they are.

00:42:17   I'd be surprised if they bail on the display business,

00:42:22   but you never know.

00:42:26   -Well, we'll watch with bated breath

00:42:29   for the screens that we can plug our iPads into, right?

00:42:32   Isn't that what we're doing? Isn't that it?

00:42:34   No. -So, let me --

00:42:35   Actually, that's a really interesting question.

00:42:37   if I mean if there were a solution to use an iPad with an external display

00:42:44   with the two of you look at that for me it makes no sense right because the

00:42:49   iPads a touch

00:42:51   yes I don't think I don't I don't think it makes any sense right now I wouldn't

00:42:57   say never because who knows like where this is going to go but like there are

00:43:02   are so many parts of that that don't make sense.

00:43:07   But I'm not going to say never on that one, to be honest.

00:43:11   Because let's imagine in five years time,

00:43:13   the iPad is as powerful as I hope it will be.

00:43:16   And I want to sit down at a desk, do podcast editing on it.

00:43:21   And I want to use iOS, but it would

00:43:24   be nice to use an external Apple Pencil, an external trackpad

00:43:27   to do editing and a logic on the iPad.

00:43:31   It doesn't seem like an impossible world to me,

00:43:33   like the same way that people plug their laptops

00:43:35   into these setups.

00:43:37   But I just think right now with the tools

00:43:39   and everything that we have right now with iOS working

00:43:42   as it does right now, it doesn't make any sense.

00:43:43   But I won't fall that out forever.

00:43:45   Federico, do you agree with that?

00:43:47   - I really don't know if I want to

00:43:52   or need to connect my iPad to another display.

00:43:56   I feel like a lot of the reason why I love iOS is that I can touch it all the time.

00:44:04   And I'm not sure...

00:44:06   I have an Apple TV, I never used AirPlay for anything.

00:44:11   I just feel like if you're a desktop person it makes sense to have external monitors.

00:44:16   If you're an iOS person you just get used to the way that it is.

00:44:21   I don't find myself wishing for it or craving any kind of display in any way.

00:44:29   Yeah, but do you think it, like...

00:44:33   Would you say right now that you would never do that?

00:44:37   Never say never for anything, Myke.

00:44:39   Exactly, yeah, exactly.

00:44:40   That's how I feel.

00:44:41   It's like, it seems crazy, but I have two iPads, so...

00:44:46   On a scale of priorities and wishes there's other things I wish for than a display for

00:44:52   my iPad.

00:44:53   That's what I'm saying.

00:44:54   Yeah.

00:44:55   Yeah, I mean, I think the only way it would make sense is if the external display is also

00:45:01   like touch sensitive.

00:45:02   So you could have your iPad plugged in and put an app up on it and use it, you know,

00:45:08   in a touch environment.

00:45:09   I don't know, I mean, I think inherently they're just so different that it's not really a thing.

00:45:14   It's something that, you know, people sometimes say, "Oh, I'd love to have more displays."

00:45:17   It's like something to consider. But, you know, overall, like, the Mac hardware—on

00:45:24   the hardware side, at least—is in this just, like, really funky spot of there's

00:45:28   not a lot of good news going on in the Mac hardware scene. It seems like we're

00:45:35   always just right around the corner for something new and magical. And maybe we

00:45:39   are I hope we are but if you were to go

00:45:44   buy a Mac today the only one I would

00:45:45   really ever consider is the iMac I think

00:45:47   everything else is is due for an update

00:45:51   and the rumors peg it with such large

00:45:54   updates that unless you just really need

00:45:56   a notebook

00:45:57   I wouldn't go buy a MacBook Pro right now

00:45:59   yeah but uh I guess we'll see I guess

00:46:03   it's like the you know the year that we

00:46:05   had no devices anywhere until the fall. That's what it feels like to be a Mac user right

00:46:12   now, always on the treadmill of old computers. Federico, you mentioned betas and I want to

00:46:19   just touch base with you, I guess, that's a phrase I'm using now, about what you're

00:46:25   feeling about the betas right now because you mentioned that you'd put iOS on your phone,

00:46:32   I don't know a lot of people that have done that and you are watching, you watch OS3 as

00:46:37   well, right?

00:46:38   Yeah.

00:46:39   So, okay, just flat out, up front, we are not advocating that you do this.

00:46:44   Yeah, yeah.

00:46:45   Don't do it.

00:46:46   The connector podcast is not liable for any issues that you have.

00:46:49   What is it?

00:46:50   The things you gotta say.

00:46:52   Don't do it, file radar, what else?

00:46:54   Yeah, I think that's it.

00:46:56   Yeah.

00:46:57   Bounce to dinos.

00:46:58   Apple people care.

00:46:59   All of the things you gotta say.

00:47:01   That's sad. That's sad, Myke. I would say there's been worse betas in the past. It feels

00:47:17   like it's the most stable beta one. Not the most stable beta, the most stable beta one

00:47:23   I tried on my phone.

00:47:26   I do get the maybe a couple of times a day of home screen crash.

00:47:33   You know when you get the spinner.

00:47:35   Now when I use 10 you don't get the Apple logo, you get the spinner for a home screen

00:47:39   crash.

00:47:40   It's a big change.

00:47:42   I get that a couple of times a day but it takes 5 seconds to restart the home screen

00:47:47   and all of my apps work.

00:47:49   I haven't seen any major showstopper kind of bug, I can get work done on my phone, it's

00:47:55   alright.

00:47:56   There's just some annoyances, such as the home screen crashing thing, and the fact that

00:48:03   if you have a lot of betas from TestFlight, app betas from TestFlight, the App Store,

00:48:09   the update section goes crazy.

00:48:12   Now I basically don't know which updates are for TestFlight apps and which updates are

00:48:18   for apps that are not as bright on my device. It's mentioned in the release notes so I'm

00:48:24   okay with that. It's probably going to get fixed in beta 2. And overall it's a very stable

00:48:29   beta and it's supposed to be a lot better based on what I heard last week. It's supposed

00:48:34   to be a lot better even in beta 2. So I want to say solid job on the first beta of iOS

00:48:40   10.

00:48:40   I wanted to ask you about the multilingual keyboard.

00:48:43   Alright.

00:48:44   Because I can't imagine that there are really that many people that talk or write about this stuff that need...

00:48:50   That's the English perspective, right?

00:48:52   No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no

00:48:52   No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no

00:49:22   I get that, I get what you mean, I get what you mean.

00:49:24   It's amazing. It's seriously one of the best changes to your standing ears.

00:49:30   So if you happen to be one of those people who constantly needs to type into, what do you call it, Latin-based languages,

00:49:43   so you know the QWERTY keyboard, such as in my case English and Italian, you can now...

00:49:51   So it used to be you needed to switch between the English keyboard and the Italian keyboard

00:49:55   before iOS 10.

00:49:57   Because otherwise you wouldn't be able to type for example in Italian using the English

00:50:00   keyboard because our correct would go crazy and it just, you know, it was the English

00:50:05   keyboard for English words.

00:50:07   So you needed to switch all the time and the keyboard switcher was slow, only iMessage

00:50:14   could remember different keyboards for each conversation, but the whole system was kinda

00:50:20   crappy.

00:50:21   In iOS 10 you can install the keyboards from the settings, as usual, but then you don't

00:50:28   have to switch anymore, because let's say that I'm talking to Myke and I'm using the

00:50:32   English keyboard, then I switch conversation, I'm talking to my mom and I need to type in

00:50:37   in Italian.

00:50:37   I don't need to switch to the Italian keyboard anymore.

00:50:40   I can just keep writing in Italian

00:50:43   from the English keyboard.

00:50:44   And as soon as the iOS keyboard picks it up

00:50:47   that I'm typing in Italian, it gives me

00:50:49   autocorrect suggestions in Italian,

00:50:51   and it also suggests emoji in Italian.

00:50:54   So it's not just words.

00:50:56   It's also emoji, and it's amazing.

00:50:58   And I've been testing this for the past week.

00:51:02   - And I'm happy to say--

00:51:03   - I'm happy to say that it's beta.

00:51:05   to be as a final radar. But no, it really does work. It's seriously one of the changes

00:51:14   that is going to make me save a lot of time every day. Because those few seconds that

00:51:19   you switch within keyboards, they do add up over time. Like, it takes a couple of seconds

00:51:24   every time. Imagine that, like, 20 seconds per day at least, maybe even 30 seconds per

00:51:29   day for, I don't know how many days, for how many years, and it's a lot of time. And it's

00:51:35   It's not just time, it's a lot of muscle memory kind of annoyance, you know, to do this all

00:51:41   the time.

00:51:42   It's annoying, it's tedious, and now it works from a single keyboard, and I'm so surprised

00:51:48   that Apple is doing this, because I thought I was generally the only person complaining

00:51:53   about this, but I do have to mention a lot of...

00:51:58   I don't remember the names, and I'm sorry, there's only one Spanish website that comes

00:52:03   of mine, it's called Apple Sphera, I think. But there's a lot of international Apple

00:52:07   blogs that brought up this complaint over the years. So it does feel like a small victory

00:52:13   for us, especially us Europeans. I know I got quite a few colleagues in Brazil, for

00:52:19   example, and I know that those people brought up this problem many, many times in the past.

00:52:24   So it does feel like it's a small victory for us, and it's very impressive. Now, the

00:52:32   The thing is, it doesn't work for languages that use different keyboards.

00:52:37   And by different keyboards I mean you cannot do English and Chinese, or English and Russian

00:52:44   Cyrillic alphabet at the same time.

00:52:47   So it only applies to Latin-based keyboards and languages.

00:52:51   But in my experience it works really well, and it's an amazing change.

00:52:54   So yeah, really happy about this.

00:52:56   How are you feeling about WatchOS 3?

00:52:59   I'm very interested in speed.

00:53:02   Host of MacPow users, David Sparks,

00:53:04   wrote a really nice little post about this a few days ago,

00:53:06   'cause David, I think, installed it in San Francisco,

00:53:10   'cause that's, he's a crazy person.

00:53:12   - But he does.

00:53:13   - But I'm interested in if you've noticed any speed changes

00:53:16   and if they're applying to third-party applications

00:53:19   that you're already using

00:53:20   that haven't obviously been updated.

00:53:23   - So it is faster.

00:53:25   It's not as amazing as what Apple showed at the keynote.

00:53:29   Well, because that's Watch 2, but that's another story.

00:53:32   Or developers need to work to get there.

00:53:35   I don't know if just--

00:53:36   Well, but are you finding the speed being

00:53:39   instant on Apple apps?

00:53:41   Yeah, also Apple apps, yeah.

00:53:43   OK.

00:53:44   I mean, even if you launch the Home app, for example,

00:53:46   it takes a solid four seconds for it to update and to give me

00:53:50   the status of my lights.

00:53:51   So it's not as immediate.

00:53:52   And the Home app is pinned to my dock, whatever the name is.

00:53:57   So it's still not there.

00:53:58   It's faster, way way better, at least in terms of... I mean, I love the dock idea.

00:54:03   I feel like it needs to be a little more intuitive to be able to swipe between apps, because

00:54:08   I feel like I need to time or at least to control my swipe so that I don't jump over

00:54:13   the next app. But that'll get better with the betas. I do like the idea a lot, and I'm

00:54:20   sure that developers, as soon as they update with WatchOS 3 support, it'll be even faster.

00:54:25   The general idea is I think watchOS 3 will make me love the Apple Watch, eventually.

00:54:34   I do feel like I've been down on the Apple Watch because of the two problems.

00:54:41   One was the performance and the second one was the software just had too many places

00:54:46   where it didn't make sense.

00:54:48   The friends interface, the going back and forth with the Honeycomb.

00:54:52   I feel like the changes coming with watchOS 3, the dock, the speed improvements, how you

00:54:59   can move between watch faces, I feel like I'll be... this is like the watchOS that I

00:55:06   wanted to have from the beginning.

00:55:08   And I feel like as soon as I have watchOS 3 and the watch 2, I'm probably gonna be a

00:55:14   watch person like all the way in the Apple Watch.

00:55:18   Because I saw you, Myke, using the Apple Watch, you use your Apple Watch all the time, I saw

00:55:24   you how much you depend on notifications, and I wanna be like you, and I feel like,

00:55:29   I'm honest here, I feel like watch rest 3 and watch 2, that'll do the job for me.

00:55:36   Yeah, I am one of four.

00:55:39   I am someone who uses the watch a lot and enjoys their Apple Watch a lot.

00:55:44   and Jason spoke on Upgrade a few weeks ago in defense of the Apple Watch, I feel like,

00:55:49   against people that are... There's been a lot of complaints about it, basically, and

00:55:53   a lot of people saying that they've stopped using it, Steven being one of them, people

00:55:57   giving up on it. But as the episode was called "Happy Apple Watch Users", I am one, and I'm

00:56:03   looking forward to being even more happy about using the Apple Watch when it becomes even

00:56:09   more useful with watchOS 3. So it's good to hear that it's getting better and you know

00:56:15   I know I make like dumb jokes but like I really do believe that the speed that they showed

00:56:19   on stage is probably most likely achieved by another watch which is you know it's still

00:56:25   correct what they're showing watchOS 3 will be faster but any amount of faster is better

00:56:32   than what we currently have. So I'm looking forward to trying it out for myself and of

00:56:36   Of course it's probably worth mentioning, it probably isn't as fast in beta 1 as it

00:56:41   will be by the time it's released anyway, right?

00:56:44   There is a strong chance that they will continue to tweak as it goes along through the beta

00:56:48   period to make it even faster and more responsive so I'm very interested to see what that ends

00:56:54   up looking like.

00:56:56   Now one of the biggest features, and I know it's one that I'm excited about for iOS 10

00:57:02   and I know that it's met with different feelings by many different people is messages and I

00:57:07   have played around with messages with Federico on iOS and we should talk about that but before

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00:58:59   So I put iOS 10 on my iPad Air 2 which is a device that has kind of just been sitting

00:59:07   waiting for me to turn into something. I plan to again when I move into my own home to mount

00:59:13   that iPad in the kitchen somewhere. That is a plan that I have because I think it would

00:59:17   be really nice to have a dedicated device for recipes and stuff. But until then it's

00:59:22   just been sitting there waiting for, you know, to be put to use and it has been put to use

00:59:26   as my iOS 10 device. And the only real thing that I've played around with because it seems

00:59:31   to be the only real thing that I can do right now with it is to send crazy messages to Federico

00:59:36   Yeah, pretty much. And we have been. It is incredibly buggy, which is expectable, expected

00:59:43   I think at this point. There are little UI bugs all over the place, but it does work

00:59:48   and I do really enjoy it. So we're talking about the effects that you can do to make

00:59:53   the messages kind of explode. Federico sent me one message which was basically playing

01:00:01   like lasers and strobe lights with a little sound.

01:00:04   And even though my iPad was in mute,

01:00:07   the sound kept playing every time I opened my message

01:00:09   to that, which is awesome.

01:00:10   - Sorry.

01:00:11   - So like every time I opened my iPad, a rave would begin.

01:00:15   And there was nothing I could do about that.

01:00:17   So these are the kinds of bugs, but it is fun, right?

01:00:19   I love the handwriting stuff that you can do.

01:00:22   So you can draw little handwritten messages,

01:00:24   which I will probably send all of my messages that way now

01:00:27   with my Apple pencil, right?

01:00:28   Just draw a little handwritten one.

01:00:29   The stickers are really good.

01:00:30   so they have the classic Mac stickers there.

01:00:33   Something that I don't recall seeing in the keynote

01:00:37   is there's GIFs, there's a GIF app

01:00:40   just built into messages.

01:00:42   And you can search for GIFs and it will give you GIFs

01:00:44   and it has popular GIFs and that all works really well.

01:00:47   So I'm happy to see that because that's much easier

01:00:51   than opening an app to do it.

01:00:52   And digital touches there, and that's kind of cool.

01:00:56   I like that you can take photos

01:00:58   and draw on the digital touches.

01:01:00   you can send a heartbeat, which I'm not 100% sure

01:01:03   is real in any way, 'cause I don't know where my iPad

01:01:07   is getting my heartbeat from.

01:01:09   But I think it's really good.

01:01:12   I think it makes messages feel young and alive again.

01:01:16   I showed some of this stuff to Adina,

01:01:18   and she said, "It looks like Facebook Messenger."

01:01:20   And I think that's the point.

01:01:22   I think that's what they're attempting to do here,

01:01:24   was to make Facebook Messenger, like an app like that.

01:01:28   That is what they wanted to do.

01:01:30   So I am very excited about some of the things

01:01:35   that I might be able to do with this down the line.

01:01:38   All of the sticker packs, I'm looking forward to those.

01:01:40   And also some of the apps that people might be making,

01:01:43   like the little game apps or being a way

01:01:46   to send people money in messages and stuff like that.

01:01:49   I'm excited about this.

01:01:50   And now Federico, I don't know if you've tested it

01:01:52   with anyone other than me, but what are your feelings?

01:01:56   Do you kind of agree with me?

01:01:57   I think Messages is the blockbuster announcement.

01:02:00   - It is. - Of WWDC.

01:02:01   And you don't, Lisa, I was spending time with developers

01:02:05   at the conference and I don't wanna say

01:02:08   that no one was excited because I have been talking

01:02:11   to developers who are coming up with some great ideas

01:02:14   and I think it's gonna be super fun for two reasons.

01:02:16   One, to see what developers come up with

01:02:18   and two, to see what App Review rejects this fall.

01:02:21   But we'll talk about this in the future.

01:02:24   But I didn't get the idea that the WWDC crowd was the right one for this kind of announcement.

01:02:30   But I think messages will be super popular.

01:02:33   And I think it's obviously inspired by Facebook Messenger in terms of the big emoji, the GIFs, and the App Platform, the whole idea of a messages app store.

01:02:44   It's also inspired by what others have been doing, if you look at WeChat or Line, for example.

01:02:49   I think it makes messages super fresh.

01:02:54   It's gonna be fun to personalize conversations in a bunch of different ways, thanks to apps,

01:03:02   stickers and that kind of stuff.

01:03:03   There will be a lot of money flowing in the iMessage App Store, especially because it's

01:03:08   super easy for developers to come up with a sticker pack.

01:03:11   I wanna see how Apple will tackle the possible copyright infringement problems, just because

01:03:17   it's so easy to come up with the sticker pack. I mean, it's just a bunch of images, you drop

01:03:21   them in a folder, you run Xcode and you got yourself a sticker pack to sell on the App Store.

01:03:25   I've been thinking about this. I think that they just made the decision to just let it fly and deal

01:03:30   with it on a case-by-case basis. It's like, there's nothing you can do. Like, if you catch it in

01:03:35   review, stop it. If it goes out and then you wait for somebody to complain and then you pull it down,

01:03:40   like, I feel like you either do this or you don't do it. If you do it, this is definitely going to

01:03:43   to happen, so you just need to accept that. I think that's kind of the process that you

01:03:47   go through in coming up with this decision the way that they have.

01:03:50   But I feel like even if you set aside the fun aspect of stickers and little gaming apps,

01:04:00   even from a productivity perspective, I feel like we're going to see utilities on the iMessage

01:04:06   apps or stuff for sharing documents or calendar events or images, media, files. I feel like

01:04:14   it's really up to the developers imagination at this point and it's going to be this fun

01:04:20   place kind of like Facebook messengers. But even for stuff like if you look at what developers

01:04:29   were doing with keyboards in terms of utilities and productivity, imagine that in a much better

01:04:37   native way in iMessage. I don't feel like it's going to move people away from Slack,

01:04:43   of course, but for one-on-one conversations or even smaller groups of people that don't

01:04:48   want to sign up for Slack, I feel like it's going to be possible to save time when sharing

01:04:55   stuff on iMessage that isn't necessarily, you know, King Kardashian stickers or big

01:05:00   emoji. I'm really curious, and I'm getting already a few emails from developers who are

01:05:06   making non-fun, because they're more of utility-based apps for iMessage. I think it's going to be

01:05:14   really interesting to see what they come up with.

01:05:17   I wonder how these apps just being on iOS will affect that, where a lot of people still

01:05:24   want their productivity stuff on the Mac.

01:05:27   And we spoke a little bit about it last week,

01:05:29   these apps are not coming to the Mac to a degree.

01:05:33   Some of it you'll see in like read only,

01:05:35   but it's even I think dependent on exactly

01:05:37   what the app is doing.

01:05:39   And a big reason--

01:05:40   - I think that's so sad.

01:05:42   - It's disappointing, but a big reason that

01:05:45   I actually had thought about but then it didn't come

01:05:47   out of my mouth was the fact that these are going

01:05:51   to be UI kit apps written for iOS,

01:05:53   and of course, if you're on a Mac, it's not very helpful,

01:05:58   'cause there's still not a great way

01:06:00   to have the same code base on both platforms.

01:06:04   And maybe that's another reason that they're not there,

01:06:09   but I really want to see Messages be a platform

01:06:15   that you can use on either type of device.

01:06:19   And I think even extending it to the web at some point,

01:06:21   like Facebook Messenger is sort of web first

01:06:24   and they have mobile clients,

01:06:25   like why couldn't I sign into iCloud.com

01:06:28   and do like really nice messaging on the web

01:06:31   if I'm at a PC, so I think--

01:06:33   - Could it, I know this is like gonna make people's skin crawl

01:06:37   but could there have been or could there be a way

01:06:40   to make a messages app which is actually just a web view

01:06:44   which could allow for some of this stuff?

01:06:47   Would it work on the web?

01:06:48   Like would you be able to do this stuff

01:06:50   iOS and the web where you can't do it on iOS and the Mac? I mean they would need

01:06:55   to have a technology story there for developers to use but there's nothing

01:07:00   holding them back from doing that. There's nothing holding them back from saying hey if

01:07:03   you want to do it on the Mac this is how you do it or making it really

01:07:07   easy to take an iOS application and port it to the Mac you know in this in this

01:07:13   regard so again I think we're probably not the best three to talk to that talk

01:07:18   to that sort of thing but I know as a user it's going to be disappointing to

01:07:23   like or even frustrating if I'm working on my Mac all day and like needing to

01:07:28   pick up my phone or my iPad to like interact in a way that is meaningful with

01:07:35   with somebody else so maybe it'll come you know maybe it's like we said last

01:07:39   week where they have a plan for this and it just didn't get done but I sure hope

01:07:44   that something's going on there because having messages like fractured to have

01:07:48   like you have these features over here

01:07:50   but if you're on the Mac you don't. Like look at

01:07:52   photos right? Photos on iOS and photos on

01:07:55   the Mac are more or less like lock and

01:07:59   step right? So they added memories to

01:08:01   one the other one got memories and

01:08:04   the face engine got redone, the face engine

01:08:06   got redone on iOS as well. So they can do

01:08:09   it to a degree like that is part of

01:08:11   their strategy for some reason messages

01:08:13   just isn't there yet and I really think

01:08:15   that if messages going to be a real

01:08:17   contender that whatever apps or like stuff that you use within it you have

01:08:23   available no matter where you're sitting and hopefully they get there.

01:08:27   The idea about the contender I don't agree with.

01:08:30   Well I think a good messaging platform is ubiquitous. One reason

01:08:35   Slack is so damn good is that I can use it on any device and it's the same

01:08:40   everywhere. I don't have to think about oh I'm on my iPad so I can't do this

01:08:44   thing in Slack. Well it works the same everywhere.

01:08:46   Well, I would ask that you look at WhatsApp, right?

01:08:49   I mean, the idea of how good the platform is to use

01:08:53   is a different argument to if it will be a success.

01:08:58   Sure.

01:08:59   And I think, like, it depends what you mean by contender.

01:09:02   I'm being facetious, but like, I'm

01:09:04   just trying to understand it, right?

01:09:05   Like, when you say contender, do you

01:09:07   mean as a well-rounded good application

01:09:09   or as a contender to Facebook Messenger WhatsApp Telegram?

01:09:14   Because whilst some of those apps have varying support on different devices, I think as long

01:09:20   as you're on iPhones, Apple is going to be totally fine and they're going to probably

01:09:25   eat up even more of the message market than they currently have.

01:09:28   And not having full support for apps on the Mac is not going to hold them back.

01:09:33   I mean, clearly that's what Apple is thinking about at this point, right?

01:09:37   They have WhatsApp in their sites.

01:09:38   There's no doubt about that.

01:09:39   But as someone who like that's,

01:09:42   and maybe this is the problem,

01:09:43   I just don't want what they want.

01:09:45   Where it's,

01:09:46   I think it is gonna be frustrating for users

01:09:49   and like that's always,

01:09:51   like if Apple's gonna go after WhatsApp, for example,

01:09:54   I think that's fine, like it's great.

01:09:56   Like they should, as a platform vendor,

01:09:58   there should be a really good first party messaging solution

01:10:01   but the iPhone's not Apple's only platform.

01:10:04   And it's, that's where my frustration comes in a little bit

01:10:08   And I'm sure that if they see great success in mobile,

01:10:13   then it's gonna take off and they can put more resources

01:10:16   into it and it'll become a bigger part of their company

01:10:19   and then I think the Mac will benefit from it.

01:10:21   But at this stage at least, I think there's just going

01:10:25   to be this weird dichotomy.

01:10:29   'Cause they brought it halfway there.

01:10:31   - It is so weird, right?

01:10:32   Because what you just said I totally agree with.

01:10:35   They'll see if it takes off.

01:10:36   they surely already know this. They know how many people use messages right now and that's

01:10:42   got to be enough.

01:10:43   Well they said it's the most used application on the iPhone.

01:10:46   So if nobody's using it on the Mac or they've just decided that this is something they don't

01:10:51   think is important, right? Because they obviously also know how many people use it on the Mac

01:10:57   and maybe that difference is massive. I doubt that but it's just such a weird thing. I mean

01:11:03   maybe there isn't an easy way to make it work so maybe that what they did need to

01:11:08   do was to build some kind of like pseudo UI kit that only works with the messages

01:11:12   app store if that's what I wanted to do.

01:11:14   Well they have that in photos they have UX kit but what I think the

01:11:18   reason is so strange is that whatsapp is just a mobile application like

01:11:24   whatsapp and Facebook messages are just iPhone apps.

01:11:27   Well messages... They have web apps now but yes the point is correct they are

01:11:31   effectively just mobile applications. Right. Messages started life really as

01:11:37   iChat like at least from the Mac user perspective messages got bolted on to

01:11:42   something else that was already there and then to break that and like diverge

01:11:45   down a different path. I understand why they're doing it, I'm not arguing why they're

01:11:49   doing it. It's just like a point of contention I feel that it's like there's

01:11:53   this weird stress between where Apple wants to go and where they are today.

01:11:57   - Yep.

01:11:57   - And how do you get there?

01:11:59   - It's like the Mac app is kind of like

01:12:01   hanging onto the ankles, right?

01:12:03   It's like dragging messages back.

01:12:05   It is weird, it's weird,

01:12:08   'cause it's weird that you have any support, right?

01:12:11   You put some in, but it's not really good enough.

01:12:13   - But that support is really

01:12:15   why I moved everything to iMessage.

01:12:18   Before, SMS was useful, but if you were at work all day,

01:12:22   and a lot of people, we're lucky,

01:12:24   a lot of people can't use their phones at work.

01:12:26   but we're like, there are rules against it,

01:12:28   active rules against it if you're sitting

01:12:29   at a desk somewhere, someplace secure.

01:12:31   But if it's on the Mac, maybe it's fine.

01:12:34   And so for me, I think one reason I have used iMessages

01:12:37   and don't sign into AIM anymore

01:12:39   is because it's just at the computer.

01:12:41   And when I pick up my iPhone or tablet, it's there.

01:12:43   And that's just gonna be a strange experience.

01:12:46   And maybe it's not as big of a deal as I think it is.

01:12:49   Like this part of my thought process says,

01:12:52   it's really cool that all these apps are there

01:12:54   and we're gonna play with them for a while

01:12:55   And then we're just all going to use stickers.

01:12:57   And like, we're not going to be doing productivity, we're not going to be building virtual ice

01:13:01   cream cones together, even though I want to do that with the two of you guys very badly.

01:13:05   We can do it in real life if we want to.

01:13:07   Yeah, a lot.

01:13:08   I just want to posit one productivity thing.

01:13:12   An app that can schedule calendar events?

01:13:14   That'd be awesome.

01:13:15   Oh.

01:13:16   Yeah.

01:13:17   I'm thinking, see, I'm thinking about that stuff.

01:13:20   events, sharing tasks on something like Trello for example, or sharing files. I'm pretty

01:13:29   sure developers will come up with all kinds of crazy ideas, which is why I mentioned we'll

01:13:33   have to see if App Review likes what is going to happen or if it will be like a repeat of

01:13:39   what happened with widgets and custom keyboards a couple of years ago. We'll see, I don't

01:13:44   know. It's going to be fun. Hopefully Apple learned from their own mistakes and it's

01:13:49   are going to happen again, we'll see. We'll discover the truth in three months.

01:13:56   Truth is out there. Truth is in the cloud.

01:13:58   You just gotta keep waiting for the betas. File those radars, right?

01:14:02   Yeah, always file the radars. Always file the radars.

01:14:05   It really does matter to people at Apple and all the teams. They worked really hard on

01:14:10   this, so file a radar. If you want to find our show notes for this

01:14:14   week's episode, head on over to relay.fm/connecty/97. Oh my word, 97. Are we prepared at all for

01:14:22   episode 100? Don't think so. Nope. If you have any ideas, let us know. If you want to

01:14:28   find Federico online, he is @vitiici on Twitter, and he writes over at maxstories.net and is

01:14:34   the host of Canvas and Remaster as well on relay.fm. Two great shows that you should

01:14:39   check out. Stephen is @ismh on Twitter and he is at 512pixels.net and also the host of

01:14:46   Lift Off and Ungeniusd as well. You should check those shows out, they're a lot of fun.

01:14:50   I am @imike, I-M-Y-K-E. I host too many shows to mention but they are also on Relay.fm as

01:14:55   well. You should, you know, go check them out. They're lots of good shows on Relay.fm.

01:14:59   Thanks again to our sponsors this week, the great people over at Braintree, willing.com

01:15:04   and Ministry of Supply. But most of all, thank you for listening. We'll be back next time.

01:15:09   Until then, say goodbye, gentlemen.

01:15:11   Arrivederci.

01:15:12   Adios.

01:15:12   Adios.