Connected

00:00:00 ◼   ► [Music]

00:00:06 ◼   ► From Reel AFM, this is Connected, episode 91. Today's show is brought to you by Text Expander

00:00:12 ◼   ► from Smile. My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined by Mr. Federico Vittucci. Ciao Federico!

00:00:18 ◼   ► Ciao Myke!

00:00:19 ◼   ► And howdy Mr. Stephen Hackett.

00:00:20 ◼   ► Wow, I don't even know how to respond to that.

00:00:24 ◼   ► You say howdy back.

00:00:24 ◼   ► Howdy.

00:00:26 ◼   ► There you go, perfect. Howdy y'all.

00:00:29 ◼   ► It doesn't sound convinced for some reason.

00:00:32 ◼   ► Yeah, it's not really my thing, but let's just do the show.

00:00:37 ◼   ► So we moved the show by a few days so we could cover the Google I/O keynote and all of the

00:00:43 ◼   ► announcements that came out of there.

00:00:45 ◼   ► But what this did was not really give us enough time to remind you that our t-shirts are on

00:00:50 ◼   ► sale.

00:00:51 ◼   ► So if you are listening on the 19th of May 2016, you have but merely a few hours left

00:00:59 ◼   ► to buy t-shirts. They will go off sale today on the 19th of May. There is a link in our

00:01:06 ◼   ► show notes if you want to buy a t-shirt. Thank you to everybody that did and I hope that

00:01:11 ◼   ► you're able to get them. I'm sorry if you can't. You should follow us all on Twitter

00:01:15 ◼   ► because we've been tweeting about it. If you missed out then you need to pay more attention

00:01:20 ◼   ► to our Twitter timelines.

00:01:21 ◼   ► Myke is a good person to follow on Twitter. He has a lot of good tweets.

00:01:25 ◼   ► I have a lot of insight and most of it's spelt incorrectly so you've got that kind of play

00:01:29 ◼   ► as well.

00:01:30 ◼   ► You have a lot of good tweets and good typos.

00:01:33 ◼   ► So it's part informational, part kind of comical.

00:01:37 ◼   ► It's basically how I present myself all the time, part information, part entertainment.

00:01:41 ◼   ► Yes.

00:01:42 ◼   ► You know?

00:01:43 ◼   ► Yes.

00:01:44 ◼   ► That's what I'm all about.

00:01:45 ◼   ► It even follows through to my Twitter timeline.

00:01:46 ◼   ► Just a very quick piece of follow up, there's also a piece of follow out.

00:01:50 ◼   ► episode 27 of Under the Radar on Relay FM, you get to hear David Smith and Marco Arment

00:01:55 ◼   ► have a great conversation about the benefits of fast app review based on what we were talking

00:02:00 ◼   ► about last week. It definitely seems like the fast app review was not a blip, this seems

00:02:04 ◼   ► like a new trend. I'm seeing more and more people tweeting about it, I'm having more

00:02:08 ◼   ► people tell me about how quickly their apps are going through review. And this was a good

00:02:12 ◼   ► kind of look at what fast app review could do, good and bad, for developers. Spoiler

00:02:19 ◼   ► alert, it's more good. Go listen to episode 27 of Under the Radar.

00:02:23 ◼   ► We were given the full set of data by app review times and Graham put together a series

00:02:30 ◼   ► of charts for Mac service and you can clearly see that there's a huge drop lately in app

00:02:38 ◼   ► review times and it's really amazing to look at that and especially to hear from developers

00:02:46 ◼   ► saying this is such a huge change, you know, I submit an app at like 10am in the morning,

00:02:53 ◼   ► at 1pm is in review, and at 3pm is approved. Like, that's a major change.

00:02:58 ◼   ► Like, it's fundamental, right? Like, it's not just like "oh, this is quicker". This

00:03:04 ◼   ► fundamentally changes the way that people can develop applications.

00:03:08 ◼   ► Yeah, absolutely.

00:03:09 ◼   ► It is a massive step change that if this is the way it works now, is going to make some

00:03:16 ◼   ► big and sweeping changes across iOS development, which is excellent.

00:03:24 ◼   ► And I hope that it remains.

00:03:25 ◼   ► So we'll see.

00:03:26 ◼   ► Initially, I had the concern that maybe Apple was just approving everything and then asking

00:03:32 ◼   ► questions later, like, let's approve everything and then if something is wrong, we can reject

00:03:38 ◼   ► apps at a later stage. But it doesn't seem that way because I've seen developers say

00:03:43 ◼   ► "I submitted an app but App Review got back to me with actual feedback and questions about

00:03:48 ◼   ► a feature or maybe, you know, notes about a bug or a crash" and they were able to do

00:03:55 ◼   ► so with an actual human being because they were looking at the actual app. So it's not

00:04:00 ◼   ► like App Review is fast now. And I've seen a few people make this joke. App Review is

00:04:04 ◼   ► so fast because there's really no one looking at submissions anymore, Apple just approves

00:04:09 ◼   ► everything. Doesn't seem to be the case because they're getting back to developers

00:04:14 ◼   ► quickly with questions and notes about crashes and bugs, which I assume can only come from

00:04:20 ◼   ► actual reviewers looking at the apps. So that's great news. Definitely seems to be more people.

00:04:26 ◼   ► I feel like what they're doing is something along the lines of more intelligent computer

00:04:32 ◼   ► data-driven acceptance, right? Along with an increase in people.

00:04:40 ◼   ► It feels like there has to be both of those things and I don't know how you

00:04:44 ◼   ► could do it without both of them. It just feels like that's the only way

00:04:49 ◼   ► that they could do this. I wonder if this becomes part of WWDC

00:04:54 ◼   ► announcements. I feel like it kind of has to, but we'll see.

00:04:58 ◼   ► Yeah, kind of ramping up for WWDC and say, by the way, we've been testing this for

00:05:02 ◼   ► Imagine if you should have said you have been testing this for a month and I really like

00:05:06 ◼   ► it.

00:05:07 ◼   ► That would be really nice.

00:05:10 ◼   ► But yes, I agree.

00:05:11 ◼   ► It seems to be the case.

00:05:12 ◼   ► We'll see.

00:05:13 ◼   ► All right, so we're going to talk about Google I/O today.

00:05:17 ◼   ► The Google I/O keynote was yesterday as we recorded this.

00:05:22 ◼   ► It was Wednesday the 18th.

00:05:24 ◼   ► Google had a bunch of stuff and we're going to talk through some of the things that we

00:05:29 ◼   ► find the most interesting.

00:05:31 ◼   ► So one of the first points I think of note is the venue for Google IO this year.

00:05:36 ◼   ► So a lot of Google IO is happening kind of in and around Google's campus and the kind

00:05:42 ◼   ► of surrounding property.

00:05:44 ◼   ► And the IO keynote was at the Shoreline Amphitheatre, which is an outdoor music festival located

00:05:51 ◼   ► basically immediately behind Google's campus.

00:05:55 ◼   ► So they put IO on there and they had like 7,000 people I think in the audience and it

00:06:01 ◼   ► looked like a rock concert which was really weird but I bet it felt really cool.

00:06:08 ◼   ► Like I bet it had a really interesting and exciting feeling to it.

00:06:11 ◼   ► I mean I bet it's gonna fit, WWDC is gonna feel like that too because they're doing it

00:06:16 ◼   ► at a music venue, right?

00:06:18 ◼   ► You know like the watch event, the watch event was at Bill Graham right?

00:06:23 ◼   ► And it looked strange, right?

00:06:24 ◼   ► They had those boxes along the side walls and stuff.

00:06:26 ◼   ► It looked like a music venue.

00:06:28 ◼   ► But being outside is a whole different thing.

00:06:31 ◼   ► The problem that Google probably couldn't have foreseen is that there currently is a

00:06:35 ◼   ► heatwave in that part of San Francisco.

00:06:39 ◼   ► And I think temperatures were around 90 degrees.

00:06:43 ◼   ► And not everybody was in the shade.

00:06:45 ◼   ► What's that in actual degrees?

00:06:48 ◼   ► I think it's like high 30s or something.

00:06:52 ◼   ► 90 Fahrenheit to Celsius. Hey Siri, what's 90 degrees Fahrenheit in Celsius?

00:06:58 ◼   ► I don't understand what you mean. 32 degrees, okay, thank you Siri. That's hot.

00:07:05 ◼   ► Yeah, quite a bit, yes. And I saw they gave out sunscreen to attendees at the

00:07:14 ◼   ► Google I/O. They also had a little pack that came with like a scarf you could put on

00:07:19 ◼   ► your head. I mean what are you gonna do, right? Like you wanted to do it in a different venue

00:07:25 ◼   ► and it's hot and sunny. Like, you know, I kind of feel like you can't really criticize

00:07:28 ◼   ► them so much. It's like, what are you gonna do? Like, it's a heatwave. Like, you can't

00:07:34 ◼   ► stop that. Well, it's California so at least you don't have to worry about it raining.

00:07:38 ◼   ► But it is interesting. It's, you know, Apple's run into it too where like there's just not

00:07:43 ◼   ► venues indoors large enough for the people that they need to have in attendance.

00:07:50 ◼   ► I mean, what else can you do except go to some big outdoor stadium like this?

00:07:55 ◼   ► So, this is an interesting view.

00:07:58 ◼   ► Yasmin Evian, who is one of the hosts of Material on Relay FM, she tweeted,

00:08:02 ◼   ► "Outdoors is a fun twist for tech conferences, but standing in the sun

00:08:07 ◼   ► for an hour to get into a session is bad."

00:08:09 ◼   ► Like, and she was tweeting it later on that like, she missed a session because it was

00:08:14 ◼   ► full, then had to wait outside in the sun for like another 90 minutes or something to

00:08:18 ◼   ► get into the next session.

00:08:21 ◼   ► That's not great, right?

00:08:22 ◼   ► Like, it's like, that's uncomfortable.

00:08:24 ◼   ► And I don't really know what you do, but it's like, that's kind of the situation.

00:08:28 ◼   ► But mentioning Yasmine, Material recorded at Google.

00:08:35 ◼   ► That's amazing.

00:08:36 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:08:37 ◼   ► Their episode I think will maybe be coming out sometime today.

00:08:41 ◼   ► I'll put a link in the show notes to the material podcast, go and subscribe.

00:08:44 ◼   ► Like they're gonna have a better take on this than us for sure.

00:08:47 ◼   ► But like yeah, I just... can you imagine us recording at Apple?

00:08:51 ◼   ► Never gonna happen.

00:08:52 ◼   ► Yes, I could imagine that.

00:08:55 ◼   ► But it's never gonna happen.

00:08:56 ◼   ► But they recorded at Google.

00:08:58 ◼   ► So well, I mean, we could we could sit on the curb and record with a portable microphone

00:09:03 ◼   ► just outside of infinite loop.

00:09:05 ◼   ► I'm sure I've read something recently that like if you stand outside on the sign for

00:09:09 ◼   ► too long there's like a security guard will come and shuffle you away.

00:09:14 ◼   ► Could we sit in the car and drive around the loop and record...

00:09:20 ◼   ► Like a power slide.

00:09:21 ◼   ► ...power sliding around the campus?

00:09:24 ◼   ► I think we should give it a go.

00:09:25 ◼   ► I have one of those like, I have one of those little microphones you can plug into a lightning

00:09:30 ◼   ► port.

00:09:31 ◼   ► were recording from Apple, but just, you know, were circling the campus.

00:09:36 ◼   ► I feel like they maybe got a better deal than we did.

00:09:39 ◼   ► Yeah, I think so.

00:09:42 ◼   ► It, um, yeah, the one thing I saw some people on Twitter had it, there's like, there's these

00:09:48 ◼   ► big exhibits, because it's all outdoors, right?

00:09:50 ◼   ► You can just do whatever you want.

00:09:51 ◼   ► There's like a robot that's painting a giant rotating cube, like flinging paint at it,

00:09:55 ◼   ► which is the most Google thing ever.

00:09:58 ◼   ► Also, I kind of want one to put in my yard, but I think they have to drive the self-driving

00:10:03 ◼   ► cars buzzing around too.

00:10:05 ◼   ► Yeah, just mowing people over.

00:10:07 ◼   ► It's fine.

00:10:09 ◼   ► It's new and I think it's exciting.

00:10:12 ◼   ► My guess is that Google will probably continue to do this, but I think I would expect some

00:10:16 ◼   ► tweaks to it as they sort of work out the kinks.

00:10:20 ◼   ► Because what you've done in this scenario is you've created a festival, which is a great

00:10:26 ◼   ► kind of idea, like they've turned Google I/O into a developer festival rather than

00:10:31 ◼   ► a conference, and I hope that they continue to go down that route, because that sounds

00:10:36 ◼   ► like you're going there to learn stuff, you're going there to find out information, but why

00:10:41 ◼   ► not make it fun as well, right, rather than everybody just being inside of a conference

00:10:45 ◼   ► center all day.

00:10:46 ◼   ► Right.

00:10:47 ◼   ► Yeah, initially I thought the idea of a keynote outside was also in conjunction with something

00:10:53 ◼   ► related to augmented reality or something in the sky, I don't know, like drones or

00:11:00 ◼   ► Project Loon flying by. I thought about that but it didn't seem to be the case.

00:11:06 ◼   ► It seemed purely just they wanted a bigger venue and it was the one that made the most

00:11:09 ◼   ► sense to them because it's right outside.

00:11:11 ◼   ► Yeah, exactly.

00:11:12 ◼   ► I mean, this is the company that had people skydive onto the Roscosky and you're wearing

00:11:17 ◼   ► Google Glass, so I can see where you got that Federico.

00:11:21 ◼   ► That was awesome man. I know a lot of people didn't like that but like as far as product

00:11:25 ◼   ► demos go, it's a pretty good product demo.

00:11:27 ◼   ► Yeah. The closest one in the Apple world is when they introduced like airport wireless

00:11:33 ◼   ► networking.

00:11:34 ◼   ► And they jumped off the platform.

00:11:36 ◼   ► So they had Phil Schiller like on a scaffold and he had iBook and they had an accelerometer

00:11:41 ◼   ► attached to it and they were sending data from it across the wireless network and he

00:11:45 ◼   ► he jumped like 15 feet onto this big mattress.

00:11:49 ◼   ► And it's a really funny, we'll dig that up and find it,

00:11:52 ◼   ► put it in the show notes, but it's a really funny

00:11:55 ◼   ► little moment of weird stuff.

00:11:58 ◼   ► But I think that stuff is important to get people excited.

00:12:01 ◼   ► Going to WWDC feels like a conference, and that's fine.

00:12:07 ◼   ► And clearly people are excited, they're like

00:12:08 ◼   ► fist pump guys ready to go.

00:12:11 ◼   ► But I agree with you, Myke.

00:12:12 ◼   ► I like the idea that the atmosphere could be different

00:12:14 ◼   ► that like taking something like I/O or WWDC and giving people like more freedom to

00:12:22 ◼   ► mill about and interact with people and be in a different environment can lead

00:12:26 ◼   ► to some really interesting things just between developers communicating so I

00:12:31 ◼   ► think they'll my guess is they'll continue to do this but um I don't see

00:12:35 ◼   ► Apple doing it anytime soon but I think it would be fun for Apple to change

00:12:39 ◼   ► things up sometimes too.

00:12:41 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean certainly Skyyaving is better than the Anki toy cars that we got at WWDC

00:12:47 ◼   ► a few years back.

00:12:48 ◼   ► Oh god, why did you bring that up?

00:12:49 ◼   ► I know that we talk about the music presentation as like a bad presentation, but the Anki cars

00:12:57 ◼   ► was worse in its own way, because it meant nothing, there was no reason for it, and it

00:13:03 ◼   ► was at the start of what was a fantastic WWDC presentation.

00:13:08 ◼   ► Very peculiar.

00:13:09 ◼   ► Very, very peculiar.

00:13:10 ◼   ► Just watching and going like, "Why are you showing this?

00:13:14 ◼   ► And why is it not working even?"

00:13:16 ◼   ► It was kind of weird.

00:13:17 ◼   ► Yeah, it was horrific.

00:13:18 ◼   ► All right, so let's talk about what was happening here.

00:13:20 ◼   ► So one of the big kind of prevailing things that went throughout Google's keynote was

00:13:26 ◼   ► something that they're calling the Google Assistant, which seems to be like the big

00:13:31 ◼   ► brother of Google Now.

00:13:34 ◼   ► And it seems like what Google have done is they're taking everything that they've learned

00:13:38 ◼   ► from machine learning and from all of the speech stuff that they do and all the queries

00:13:43 ◼   ► that they have to run and they're turning it into an assistant, something that you can

00:13:48 ◼   ► have an ongoing two-way dialogue with. And they're building some of this stuff in now

00:13:53 ◼   ► and they were showing a lot of stuff where that what they wanted the future of it to

00:13:57 ◼   ► look like, you know, and like Sundar Pichai, who I love, like just guy is so cool. Anyway,

00:14:07 ◼   ► He was basically showing that you could have a conversation around booking some theatre

00:14:12 ◼   ► tickets like movie tickets with it. So you'd say like what's on tonight and it will show

00:14:16 ◼   ► you some stuff and be like I want something that's family friendly and it will refine

00:14:20 ◼   ► it. Then you say it will say oh what about Jungle Book and you'll say is that movie good

00:14:24 ◼   ► and then it'll be like here's some reviews it seems like people like it. And Google said

00:14:27 ◼   ► this is all stuff that they can get but they're like building it out now to the point where

00:14:31 ◼   ► you can have this sort of conversation with it. And one of the things that they really

00:14:35 ◼   ► focus on, and rightly so because they do it well now, is questions around context. And

00:14:41 ◼   ► this is in Google Now in the new Android and beta anyway, you can do it, where you can

00:14:47 ◼   ► ask a question and then ask it a follow on question. Should I give it a go?

00:14:51 ◼   ► Yes.

00:14:52 ◼   ► Alright, so give me a person like, hang on, let me try this. Okay, Google, who is the

00:14:58 ◼   ► Prime Minister of the United... oh, it stopped, hang on, I am running a beta here.

00:15:04 ◼   ► - This is-- - Okay, Google.

00:15:06 ◼   ► Who is the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom?

00:15:10 ◼   ► - David Cameron is the Prime Minister of United Kingdom.

00:15:16 ◼   ► - Okay, Google.

00:15:18 ◼   ► How old is he?

00:15:19 ◼   ► - He's 49 years old.

00:15:24 ◼   ► - That's what they can do.

00:15:25 ◼   ► - Yeah, okay.

00:15:26 ◼   ► - Right now, I know the demo's a bit wonky, but whatever.

00:15:31 ◼   ► The context and the follow on questions

00:15:33 ◼   ► is something Google can understand,

00:15:34 ◼   ► because what it was doing was looking at the page.

00:15:37 ◼   ► So remember that Google Now on tap thing?

00:15:39 ◼   ► Where basically it will look at what's on the page

00:15:43 ◼   ► and make suggestions to you?

00:15:44 ◼   ► That's what I believe it's doing there,

00:15:46 ◼   ► is I have the David Cameron Google page open at that point,

00:15:49 ◼   ► and it's seeing who's on the page

00:15:51 ◼   ► and understanding the questions.

00:15:53 ◼   ► Siri can't do this stuff.

00:15:54 ◼   ► Follow on questions just seem to throw it through a loop.

00:15:59 ◼   ► Like if you set a timer and ask it to stop the timer,

00:16:02 ◼   ► like I can set a timer! I was like no you what are you doing? like do you want me to

00:16:05 ◼   ► kill you? this is the sort of stuff that Google's able to do and this is the sort

00:16:10 ◼   ► of stuff that they're starting to build and it seems like eventually this Google

00:16:15 ◼   ► Assistant will be with you everywhere and then the rest of the a lot a lot of

00:16:19 ◼   ► the following on chunks of the keynote have Google Assistant as a core part of

00:16:24 ◼   ► what is going on. It seems to me that the Google Assistant is a combination of

00:16:31 ◼   ► Google Now, Voice Search, Google Now On Tap, you know, it's a bunch of things

00:16:36 ◼   ► taken together using the same technology, but obviously Google is sort of jumping

00:16:40 ◼   ► onto the chatbot trend. It's like the ultimate chatbot, right? Yes, it's like a

00:16:46 ◼   ► conversational experience, you can text the Google Assistant in the new, what do

00:16:51 ◼   ► you say, "Hello", "Hello", "Hello" app, you can text the assistant and it seems like

00:16:58 ◼   ► they're sort of going after the trend, but when they say we believe we have the best

00:17:03 ◼   ► technology and we're ahead of any competitor, I tend to believe that. And it's interesting

00:17:09 ◼   ► to me, however, that not even in this case with the Google Assistant, we're not seeing

00:17:16 ◼   ► the ability yet to combine multiple commands together. For example, I've always wanted

00:17:22 ◼   ► to be able to say "turn off my lights" and "turn on the coffee maker". You know, it's

00:17:27 ◼   ► two different commands. And it seems that any assistant is still not capable of doing

00:17:31 ◼   ► that, because right now they're focusing on context, which makes sense, you know, before

00:17:36 ◼   ► getting onto multiple commands, you want to nail down the context portion, which I think

00:17:42 ◼   ► it's, you know, it makes sense. Still, the demo from Google from the assistant is impressive,

00:17:47 ◼   ► especially when you consider that they're already working on a developer platform. Interestingly,

00:17:53 ◼   ► going to be a bunch of partners already working with the Google Assistant and with the Google

00:17:59 ◼   ► Home, which we're going to talk about shortly. What do you guys think of Google getting into

00:18:05 ◼   ► this space? I thought it was interesting to kind of see that approach with the Assistant

00:18:14 ◼   ► and with the Google Home saying, "We want to thank the team of Amazon and we're working

00:18:19 ◼   ► on these features." It's so different.

00:18:23 ◼   ► I mean I think it's the the natural evolution of Google's technology.

00:18:28 ◼   ► Say Google now is really great and can do a bunch of good stuff but it is locked away

00:18:35 ◼   ► on iOS behind an app or on Android in a couple different places but you have to go to it

00:18:41 ◼   ► right if you're on a desktop you have to go to the browser to go do it.

00:18:45 ◼   ► So Google is locked away sort of in its own area and what this is doing is putting it

00:18:51 ◼   ► you are more directly so if you have it sitting on your kitchen counter you just

00:18:54 ◼   ► yell at it or if you have it in your chat app you can just talk to it

00:18:59 ◼   ► directly and they are trying to integrate it more kind of out yeah in

00:19:04 ◼   ► the real world and I think that's the like the Amazon echo is showing that

00:19:09 ◼   ► that's the next step for a lot of the stuff is that you know I can set a timer

00:19:13 ◼   ► on my phone or my watch but I have to interact with them both to do that right

00:19:22 ◼   ► I have to touch them because I have a hoy telephone turned off because it only

00:19:26 ◼   ► trips when I listen to podcasts but with something on the counter I can just yell it in

00:19:30 ◼   ► it's always listening and it does a better job anyways so I think I think

00:19:34 ◼   ► Google's moving into that space and I think it's completely reasonable and I

00:19:38 ◼   ► think it's where all this stuff maybe not Apple we can get to that but I think

00:19:41 ◼   ► that's where these other companies are definitely headed to in a hurry.

00:19:45 ◼   ► I think at this point Siri is starting to feel really, you know, backwards, really antiquated

00:19:52 ◼   ► if you will. I mean the fact that Google and others can handle context better, they, you

00:20:00 ◼   ► know, they have assistance or they will have assistance that you can text. You can have

00:20:05 ◼   ► conversations without having to, you know, talk out loud in public. And the fact that

00:20:10 ◼   ► there's an integration with services, you know, from any developer can plug into these technologies.

00:20:15 ◼   ► I think Siri is starting to feel a lot like a limited version of this idea that Apple had a

00:20:22 ◼   ► few years ago and hasn't really improved meaningfully. I mean, Siri, you can make the argument

00:20:26 ◼   ► that Siri supports more languages and it can handle native tasks better, I don't know,

00:20:34 ◼   ► but it seems to me like Apple's idea of privacy and we don't want to use machine learning too much

00:20:43 ◼   ► to understand what our users do, it seems like we're starting to see the practical

00:20:48 ◼   ► counter-effects of that policy, which is Google, Amazon, to an extent Microsoft, Facebook,

00:20:56 ◼   ► they're going beyond what Siri can do, and I'm not sure if Apple can catch up, not necessarily because

00:21:03 ◼   ► of engineers and technology, but because of their own ideals, and I think that's a big

00:21:08 ◼   ► problem.

00:21:09 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, I think that quite a few things that are going to come across in this conversation

00:21:17 ◼   ► today is, for me, that Google is kind of winning a lot of this stuff, and as an Apple user,

00:21:26 ◼   ► I am concerned that I don't think Apple can do some of this stuff, and are we going to

00:21:32 ◼   ► start missing out. So one of the biggest parts of this is Google Home. So this is

00:21:37 ◼   ► basically Google's Echo competitor. It will be available later this year. I would

00:21:42 ◼   ► expect internationally, and it seems like they may be announcing it now to try and

00:21:47 ◼   ► get ahead of any potential competition. They want to show that they're in the

00:21:50 ◼   ► game here, right? Everything's controlled by voice. It looks to me

00:21:55 ◼   ► way nicer than the Echo. It's much smaller and you can customize it.

00:22:00 ◼   ► you can different finishes and different colors and stuff like that so I think it

00:22:05 ◼   ► looks more akin to something you would have in your house than the echo does

00:22:09 ◼   ► which looks like this kind of terrifying tube of death. Speaker. Yes. It looks I don't know the

00:22:14 ◼   ► the echo looks super intimidating to me. It looks like the the the Jeff Bezos

00:22:19 ◼   ► version of the eye of Sauron from the Lord of the Rings. I can see that.

00:22:25 ◼   ► The Google home will do a lot of the stuff that you're used to with these

00:22:29 ◼   ► types of things like the Echo, like it will play music, it will connect with home automation

00:22:35 ◼   ► products including Nest products of course. There will be an API, they flat out said that

00:22:41 ◼   ► they're going to have an API. It will do something I really like, you can hook it up to Google

00:22:45 ◼   ► Chromecast so you can like plug Chromecast and Chromecast audios into devices in your

00:22:51 ◼   ► home and you can say things like play music in the front room and it will do that. And

00:22:57 ◼   ► think that's super smart. That's something too that Amazon seems prime to be able

00:23:01 ◼   ► to do if you have the Echo and the Fire TV stick and as far as I know they don't

00:23:06 ◼   ► talk to each other but I can see Amazon being just at the cusp of doing this

00:23:11 ◼   ► sort of stuff as well where you have a smart speaker always listening and it

00:23:15 ◼   ► can control media on other devices.

00:23:18 ◼   ► Sonos does a little bit of that right with all their connected stuff

00:23:22 ◼   ► but it seems like Amazon could do this as well.

00:23:25 ◼   ► They had a demo video that they showed which was amazing.

00:23:29 ◼   ► Like it was just so good.

00:23:31 ◼   ► One of my favorite things is like a lady's getting dressed,

00:23:35 ◼   ► she's getting ready for the day and she just says like,

00:23:38 ◼   ► "Okay Google, I'm listening."

00:23:39 ◼   ► Oops, there we go.

00:23:41 ◼   ► [laughter]

00:23:42 ◼   ► And it based then that the home just told her everything

00:23:47 ◼   ► that was happening in the day and things that might be an issue.

00:23:50 ◼   ► So she's like, "Oh, you've got a meeting at this point,

00:23:53 ◼   ► "but there's traffic on the road, do you wanna do anything?"

00:23:55 ◼   ► She's like, "I'll text Mary and tell her that I'll be late."

00:23:57 ◼   ► Like it was a really good kind of way of doing it.

00:24:01 ◼   ► And then obviously they had the cute stuff

00:24:02 ◼   ► with the kid asking questions,

00:24:04 ◼   ► but they had like the dads getting,

00:24:06 ◼   ► trying to wake everybody up and he's like,

00:24:07 ◼   ► "Play music in every room of the house

00:24:10 ◼   ► "as a way to like wake everyone up."

00:24:12 ◼   ► The demo video was really great.

00:24:16 ◼   ► And I think that this product is gonna be cool.

00:24:18 ◼   ► And I'm going to wait to see what happens, but I probably will get this over an echo

00:24:23 ◼   ► just because I think that Google has more ability to do this better.

00:24:30 ◼   ► I think it has a stronger underpinning and a longer history of dealing with voice commands.

00:24:37 ◼   ► And I think that there's going to be, depending on what their API looks like, stronger and

00:24:41 ◼   ► deeper integrations with companies and services.

00:24:45 ◼   ► But part of the problem of all of this is,

00:24:48 ◼   ► it really works better when you're all in on a platform.

00:24:50 ◼   ► Like having an Android phone will obviously

00:24:52 ◼   ► make this whole thing better.

00:24:54 ◼   ► And this is where I start to think that we're gonna

00:24:56 ◼   ► get left in the dust a little bit as Apple users,

00:24:58 ◼   ► because I just can't see Siri Home product.

00:25:02 ◼   ► I just don't see it happening.

00:25:04 ◼   ► It just doesn't feel like that's something

00:25:05 ◼   ► that we're gonna see even the next six months or so.

00:25:07 ◼   ► Like I just don't see it.

00:25:09 ◼   ► - You know, I don't know about what you say

00:25:12 ◼   ► if as iPhone users we're gonna miss out.

00:25:14 ◼   ► Because, I mean, the primary interface of this is going to be voice.

00:25:19 ◼   ► And Chromecast, you can buy one and you can configure one from an iOS device.

00:25:24 ◼   ► The integration with third-party services doesn't matter if you use an iPhone or an

00:25:27 ◼   ► Android phone, you can plug in Spotify, you know, other apps.

00:25:30 ◼   ► No, no, it's a good point.

00:25:31 ◼   ► But I just feel like, so there are things like where he asks for something and he's

00:25:36 ◼   ► like, "Can you send that to my phone?"

00:25:37 ◼   ► And you just know that's not going to be as nice.

00:25:39 ◼   ► It's going to be locked inside of a Google app.

00:25:41 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah.

00:25:42 ◼   ► Yeah, there's going to be some limitations, but I feel like it's going to be, you know,

00:25:46 ◼   ► like 80% of the experience that you would otherwise get on an Android phone. But what

00:25:51 ◼   ► matters is that you're putting Google into your home and you're, you know, even from

00:25:56 ◼   ► an iPhone you're plugged into a Google ecosystem. You're not plugged into an iCloud or Siri

00:26:00 ◼   ► ecosystem, you know, and that is starting to be a big problem for Apple to have, you

00:26:04 ◼   ► know, clearly there has to be improvements to Siri and to open up Siri. If Apple believes

00:26:10 ◼   ► that voice, especially inside the home, because we've seen it doesn't really work in public,

00:26:17 ◼   ► especially inside the home. It's just more natural, more conversational. But that only

00:26:20 ◼   ► gets better if you can collect more data and if you can open up an ecosystem for developers

00:26:25 ◼   ► to build upon. And I feel like when you consider the Amazon Echo and Google, Google is maybe

00:26:31 ◼   ► the best representation of the principle that there's no data, like more data. And Google

00:26:37 ◼   ► Google has lots of them. And I also agree with you when you say that maybe Google is

00:26:42 ◼   ► better positioned to tackle this in the future, you know, because they've been doing this

00:26:47 ◼   ► for a long time. And I mean, Google has built their own TPUs, the Tensor Processing Units.

00:26:53 ◼   ► It's basically like TensorFlow is the Google system for machine learning and such, and

00:26:58 ◼   ► AI. And they have built their own, instead of a CPU or a GPU, a TPU, which they've been

00:27:04 ◼   ► using it in a data center for over a year, which is crazy. Google is going all in on

00:27:10 ◼   ► AI, machine learning, to power these consumer products, such as the assistant on a phone,

00:27:16 ◼   ► and the Google Home speaker thing. So I feel like there's a lot of potential here, and

00:27:23 ◼   ► for different aspects of normal life, because in the end it boils down to what can you do

00:27:31 ◼   ► with this thing in normal life. So I see a bunch of openings, such as, you know, there's

00:27:37 ◼   ► potential for a Sonos-like setup when you consider the Chromecast and playing audio

00:27:43 ◼   ► in different parts of the house. That could be possible, you know, you just need to buy

00:27:47 ◼   ► a Chromecast audio and plug it into any kind of speaker, any kind of soundbar.

00:27:50 ◼   ► Which are like $30, they're not expensive.

00:27:53 ◼   ► Exactly. There's integration with developers. If you look at the Google Home partnership

00:27:58 ◼   ► slides. You can see Spotify, you know, not just Google Music, which kind of sucks, but

00:28:05 ◼   ► you can also do Spotify. WhatsApp, that's interesting, I've seen WhatsApp, so Facebook

00:28:10 ◼   ► is apparently working with Google to bring WhatsApp messaging to Google Home, which is

00:28:16 ◼   ► intriguing to me. And I feel like there's a... what the Amazon Echo started, maybe Google

00:28:24 ◼   ► can perfect, you know, and can grow into a bigger platform, and I'm really... I would

00:28:30 ◼   ► love to be a fly on the wall inside of Apple's office in Cupertino and see what they think

00:28:36 ◼   ► of the idea of a Siri device inside the house. Because obviously people don't like using

00:28:41 ◼   ► Siri in public, because it's just dumb. You cannot... I've seen people talking to Siri

00:28:46 ◼   ► in public and it's just awkward, and you cannot text Siri, so that's a big problem, and the

00:28:52 ◼   ► The best place to use Siri is when you're walking around the house or when you're driving.

00:28:57 ◼   ► But when you're inside the house, what are the chances you're constantly walking with

00:29:02 ◼   ► the phone in your hands?

00:29:03 ◼   ► I mean, I do use my phone inside my house, but you know, I'm also doing house stuff,

00:29:08 ◼   ► and it would really be more convenient to be able to, you know, I'm not saying to yell

00:29:13 ◼   ► at Siri, but to kind of talk normally, to talk normally and anyone can talk and anyone

00:29:18 ◼   ► can ask questions.

00:29:20 ◼   ► I think the Amazon Echo and maybe in the future the Google Home, those are the kind of devices

00:29:24 ◼   ► that you don't really get until you try them, but once you do, and I'm primarily talking

00:29:29 ◼   ► out of experience with the Amazon Echo, once you do, they really click and they make sense.

00:29:33 ◼   ► At least that's what happened to me.

00:29:35 ◼   ► Well, I think Apple's answer to that is the Apple Watch.

00:29:38 ◼   ► Why would you have something locked on your way in your kitchen when you're in the bedroom,

00:29:42 ◼   ► you have your watch on, just hit the button and talk to your watch, right?

00:29:46 ◼   ► I think they're trying to do the same type of things and you look at like the basic stuff

00:29:52 ◼   ► of you can do iMessage you can do homekit stuff if your your home stuff supports that

00:29:57 ◼   ► like they're trying to do the same thing but instead of it being a cylinder on the counter

00:30:01 ◼   ► it's something that strapped to your wrist all the time no matter where you are you may

00:30:04 ◼   ► in the backyard and do it.

00:30:06 ◼   ► I don't know which one is right I know between my Apple Watch and my Echo that I use the

00:30:11 ◼   ► Echo way more or especially for voice stuff.

00:30:16 ◼   ► So maybe the cylinder speaker design works better for me at least, but I think Apple's

00:30:23 ◼   ► already kind of putting Siri everywhere we are, just in a different way.

00:30:28 ◼   ► Yeah, I don't know.

00:30:30 ◼   ► I know I'm excited about this product though.

00:30:34 ◼   ► Like I don't feel like, I just don't feel like the Apple Watch is going to be the product

00:30:39 ◼   ► that can do something that this can, and it's based on microphone technology, you know?

00:30:45 ◼   ► things, these home listening devices are full of microphones, where the watch I don't think

00:30:51 ◼   ► is as good because it doesn't do a great job of picking up what I'm asking it to do. But

00:30:55 ◼   ► I understand and agree with what you're saying Steven that I think that is the ideal of what

00:31:01 ◼   ► Apple's looking for. But I don't think that they've achieved it.

00:31:05 ◼   ► You know, by saying that I'm excited about Google and what Amazon are doing, I'm not

00:31:11 ◼   ► saying that Apple is doomed when it comes to Siri and the Assistant stuff, I'm just

00:31:16 ◼   ► saying that Apple has to make some necessary steps to improve what they have. So there

00:31:21 ◼   ► are some obvious limitations, I would say three of them. You cannot text Siri, you cannot

00:31:26 ◼   ► have a real conversation with real follow-up questions, and there's no developer platform.

00:31:31 ◼   ► These are the three key pillars upon which I think Apple should improve Siri. And if

00:31:36 ◼   ► they do, and if they can come up with a system to collect data without being creepy, without

00:31:41 ◼   ► actually knowing all the things they don't want to know, so taking a different approach

00:31:45 ◼   ► than Google, I don't know how, but there must be some technical compromise they can

00:31:49 ◼   ► make, I think they have a chance. Because especially on iOS, there can be a different

00:31:56 ◼   ► approach. iOS has a richer app ecosystem, and Siri on iOS could have a richer app integration

00:32:04 ◼   ► then Amazon can only talk to web services and Google doesn't have the same rich native

00:32:11 ◼   ► app ecosystem as iOS. So Apple can take a different approach, but there's some fundamentals

00:32:15 ◼   ► that they need to improve. And I think those three key features are what I'd like to see

00:32:20 ◼   ► for Syria WWDC. But I don't know.

00:32:23 ◼   ► And I think you touched on it a second ago, but the philosophical difference between the

00:32:28 ◼   ► two companies has never been clearer to me when looking at this sort of stuff. And I

00:32:33 ◼   ► I mean all three of us use Google services,

00:32:35 ◼   ► our business runs on the back of Google apps.

00:32:38 ◼   ► I've got no problem with Google's supposed privacy.

00:32:43 ◼   ► My whole photo library is in Google Photos.

00:32:46 ◼   ► I'm a Google user.

00:32:47 ◼   ► But there is this thread, at least in parts

00:32:51 ◼   ► of the nerd community, that Google is creepy,

00:32:54 ◼   ► or Google is spying on you.

00:32:55 ◼   ► And I just think that's a lot of baloney.

00:32:57 ◼   ► But there is a difference between the two companies.

00:33:00 ◼   ► Apple one reason Siri is limited in what it can do is that Apple hasn't opened it

00:33:04 ◼   ► up and even when you're on your device

00:33:07 ◼   ► Siri doesn't have all like the access that something that that like something

00:33:13 ◼   ► like the Google Assistant would have because you know they're not looking in

00:33:17 ◼   ► your iCloud account for a bunch of stuff you know if like if you signed into

00:33:21 ◼   ► Google on the web and you have an Amazon receipt in your inbox and you search for

00:33:27 ◼   ► for like, oh, I bought this camera or whatever.

00:33:30 ◼   ► It shows a little link to that message

00:33:32 ◼   ► in the Google results.

00:33:33 ◼   ► Google can do all that stuff because they're not afraid

00:33:35 ◼   ► to break those walls down, and Apple is.

00:33:38 ◼   ► And I'm not saying which one is right

00:33:40 ◼   ► or which one I prefer, I'm gonna sidestep all that,

00:33:43 ◼   ► but there is a clear difference.

00:33:44 ◼   ► And for something like an assistant that knows

00:33:48 ◼   ► everything about your digital life,

00:33:49 ◼   ► who can do everything a real assistant can do,

00:33:52 ◼   ► they can handle messaging, they can handle invitations

00:33:56 ◼   ► your calendar and sending notices people all that stuff that requires a level of

00:34:00 ◼   ► access that Apple doesn't grant itself to its user data and so how could Siri

00:34:06 ◼   ► ever catch up how could how could a Siri home assistant or Siri being better in

00:34:11 ◼   ► iOS it just can't do that stuff because of those those boundaries and that is

00:34:16 ◼   ► something that if that's the decision that Apple stands by and there's no reason to

00:34:20 ◼   ► believe they're going to change their mind on that then we as iOS users and as

00:34:25 ◼   ► people in the Apple ecosystem just need to understand that there's some things

00:34:30 ◼   ► out there that we can't use you know like like I I used Gmail for my personal

00:34:34 ◼   ► email address but all my contacts and calendars are in iCloud because I share a

00:34:37 ◼   ► lot of stuff with my family members and that just means that I can't tell the

00:34:42 ◼   ► echo to ask them into my Google Calendar because my calendar is in iCloud and

00:34:46 ◼   ► you have to know where those boundaries are and if you're living in a mixed

00:34:50 ◼   ► platform environment knowing that you're going to hit broken things because of

00:34:54 ◼   ► decisions made from a political and philosophical level.

00:34:58 ◼   ► You know, ultimately it comes down to trading convenience and utility for an idea, and you

00:35:06 ◼   ► gotta choose.

00:35:09 ◼   ► There's Google people, let's call it Google people, they believe in convenience and utility,

00:35:14 ◼   ► and I can see why.

00:35:15 ◼   ► Because when I open the Google app, and on the front page there's a little box that tells

00:35:20 ◼   ► me "You know, your Amazon Echo is shipped and your Nintendo game is on the way", because

00:35:26 ◼   ► they look into my email inbox, and because they parse that, and they show me a photo,

00:35:30 ◼   ► and they show me a tracking link, and they save me time, I can say "Okay, that's convenient,

00:35:35 ◼   ► that's useful". But there's Apple people that say "You know, we don't want to look at your

00:35:40 ◼   ► stuff, we don't want to do any smart processing, we don't want your data". And so it's two

00:35:46 ◼   ► different camps and personally when I see what can be done with Google and when I see

00:35:53 ◼   ► what cannot be done with Siri, I'm kinda, you know, I say, you know, I miss this stuff

00:36:00 ◼   ► and I use the Google app on iOS, but it's still a limited experience. Now, you know,

00:36:07 ◼   ► iOS has a stronger, I believe, has a stronger app ecosystem. The kind of innovation that

00:36:14 ◼   ► that you see on the App Store, for the iPhone, for the iPad, and even to an extent for the

00:36:17 ◼   ► Apple Watch, I'm gonna say.

00:36:20 ◼   ► I don't think you can get that on Android.

00:36:22 ◼   ► And I think Apple has a real opportunity to integrate Siri with apps.

00:36:27 ◼   ► Maybe there can be some local processing they can do, and I believe they do that for proactive

00:36:32 ◼   ► recommendations, which are not great, but maybe there's a way to build upon that.

00:36:36 ◼   ► And I think Apple has a real chance to leverage all these amazing apps on iOS and to improve

00:36:44 ◼   ► Siri in ways that are not creepy, to work with developers and to say "we can make

00:36:49 ◼   ► our own assistant, we can make it different and it can still be useful", you know?

00:36:53 ◼   ► And if you want, you can still use the Google apps on iOS and you can still get 70%, 80%

00:36:58 ◼   ► of the advantages of the benefits of Android.

00:37:02 ◼   ► And you can get it on iOS because Google can make iOS apps.

00:37:07 ◼   ► So I don't know what's it gonna be, you know?

00:37:10 ◼   ► I would like to see those basic improvements to Siri.

00:37:14 ◼   ► And I feel like at this point we're seeing the direction the industry is going for the next few years.

00:37:21 ◼   ► So AI, machine learning, having text conversations with bots, having assistance inside the house,

00:37:31 ◼   ► virtual reality, but that's another topic.

00:37:33 ◼   ► I feel like these are going to be the next, as Steve Jobs said, the next horses you want

00:37:40 ◼   ► to bet on.

00:37:42 ◼   ► The technologies that are on the rise.

00:37:45 ◼   ► So it'll be interesting to see what Apple does.

00:37:47 ◼   ► But today, even if you look at something like Gboard, the Google keyboard, the auto corrections

00:37:53 ◼   ► are way better than the Apple keyboard.

00:37:56 ◼   ► And that's because they use machine learning.

00:37:58 ◼   ► But the compromise, it's a custom keyboard.

00:38:00 ◼   ► It doesn't really work well on iOS.

00:38:02 ◼   ► That's where we're at today.

00:38:04 ◼   ► All right.

00:38:07 ◼   ► This wasn't all that Google announced.

00:38:08 ◼   ► They announced some other interesting stuff and some other weird stuff, but let's take

00:38:12 ◼   ► a break to thank Smile for sponsoring this week's episode, and I want to talk to you

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00:40:23 ◼   ► of this show.

00:40:24 ◼   ► All right, so Google also announced a new messaging app,

00:40:30 ◼   ► which I don't think anybody expected, called Allo,

00:40:34 ◼   ► which I love the name, right?

00:40:37 ◼   ► Allo.

00:40:38 ◼   ► That's how I should call it, but won't.

00:40:40 ◼   ► So this is something else that they announced,

00:40:42 ◼   ► which was surprising, I think.

00:40:44 ◼   ► I don't think that anybody was really expecting

00:40:48 ◼   ► that this was something that we were gonna see from them,

00:40:50 ◼   ► another messaging app,

00:40:51 ◼   ► especially when this isn't replacing anything.

00:40:54 ◼   ► - Actually, in the Mac stories Slack, the day before,

00:40:58 ◼   ► our credit to Jake, he said,

00:41:02 ◼   ► I believe Google is going to do some messaging

00:41:04 ◼   ► and music stuff, and sure enough, we saw the speaker

00:41:08 ◼   ► and we saw the messaging app, so, you know.

00:41:12 ◼   ► Some people saw it coming, but it's probably just Jake.

00:41:15 ◼   ► So congratulations, Jake.

00:41:17 ◼   ► - I think the idea of them creating a messaging service

00:41:20 ◼   ► that doesn't replace and just is in conjunction with a messaging service that they already

00:41:24 ◼   ► had is a very peculiar thing.

00:41:28 ◼   ► Like six of them at this point. How many does Google have?

00:41:32 ◼   ► I think they'll have two now once this comes out. So the way that Google is presenting

00:41:39 ◼   ► this is a smart messaging service that has all of the richness of Google with inside

00:41:44 ◼   ► your Messenger application. It has stickers, it has emojis, it has something called whisper

00:41:48 ◼   ► shout where I thought this was kind of cute, most people think this is ridiculous, so you

00:41:53 ◼   ► can type something into the text field and you can hold on to the send button and you

00:41:58 ◼   ► can increase the text size or decrease the text size by moving your finger up and down,

00:42:03 ◼   ► so it's like imagining you want to shout something or whisper something. I think this was kind

00:42:06 ◼   ► of cute, I kind of liked it.

00:42:09 ◼   ► I think it's a really good interaction. I saw people making fun of it, they're like

00:42:12 ◼   ► "oh it's just a text size". Yes, but the way that you rethink it on a mobile device, that's

00:42:17 ◼   ► what makes sense. And I think it's really well done. Instead of being like desktop controls

00:42:24 ◼   ► for font sizes, which is what these people were making fun of, it's a slider and it makes

00:42:29 ◼   ► it bigger or smaller. It's a really fun interaction from a design perspective.

00:42:32 ◼   ► I'm glad you agree with that. Because I think so. Smart replies. So we've seen this stuff

00:42:38 ◼   ► before, but they're again using their learning to create smart replies. They will learn your

00:42:43 ◼   ► frequently used emoji and stickers and will present those as smart replies that you can

00:42:46 ◼   ► app. They're using their machine learning on photos so it can understand what's in an

00:42:51 ◼   ► image and suggest smart replies for you. So like for example, they had a picture of a

00:42:56 ◼   ► dog and it would be like, "Oh, that's a really nice breed of dog." Right? It can also do

00:43:02 ◼   ► stuff like read what's in the message and suggest things. So say somebody says to you

00:43:05 ◼   ► like, "Do you want to go out to eat tonight?" The Google Assistant will suggest restaurants

00:43:11 ◼   ► that are located near you. They know your preferences. Then you can all within the messaging

00:43:16 ◼   ► application, find out information about the restaurant and then book it through something

00:43:19 ◼   ► like OpenTable. So you don't ever need to leave the chat to Google something. Google

00:43:23 ◼   ► is within the chat. They're going to have an API to allow companies to integrate and

00:43:28 ◼   ► as Federico was mentioning earlier, you can also, at Google, to call the Google Assistant

00:43:33 ◼   ► in to any chat and you can also have one-on-one chats. So you can use the Google Assistant

00:43:37 ◼   ► to bring in images, videos, you can even play games with it. I love that they gave some

00:43:42 ◼   ► time to incognito chats. It just seemed like a funny thing to put up on stage. Disappearing

00:43:48 ◼   ► messages and expiring conversations, end-to-end encryption, and discrete notifications for

00:43:53 ◼   ► any incognito chat that you have.

00:43:55 ◼   ► I love the way that Americans say incognito, because it's so different to me. It's in Italian.

00:44:02 ◼   ► Incognito.

00:44:03 ◼   ► Ah, of course you would. Silent G. Yep, that's so much nicer. But it's just funny to me.

00:44:09 ◼   ► I know why you do it, we all know why it's there,

00:44:12 ◼   ► but like, I don't know, it's just a funny thing

00:44:14 ◼   ► to put up on stage, right?

00:44:15 ◼   ► Like, those secret conversations that you like

00:44:17 ◼   ► to have with people that maybe you shouldn't,

00:44:19 ◼   ► we're building a feature for that, right?

00:44:21 ◼   ► Like, all right, cool.

00:44:23 ◼   ► My thing about all this is all of this looks really good.

00:44:27 ◼   ► So when I look at something like, quite frequently,

00:44:30 ◼   ► me and Federico have moved all of our conversations

00:44:33 ◼   ► to Telegram, and Telegram is a really nice chat service.

00:44:35 ◼   ► I use WhatsApp for people in my family.

00:44:37 ◼   ► This looks like it has all of the stuff that I'm used to and some really interesting extra stuff.

00:44:41 ◼   ► But why would I leave my current messaging service?

00:44:44 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:44:45 ◼   ► And how do I get everyone in my life to meet me?

00:44:47 ◼   ► Exactly. Exactly.

00:44:49 ◼   ► It's the same problem with any chat service that is not Facebook Messenger or WhatsApp or iMessage.

00:44:56 ◼   ► How do you convince people?

00:44:58 ◼   ► Google is obviously betting on these smart features.

00:45:02 ◼   ► I don't know if those are enough to explain to people and to show them the benefit.

00:45:07 ◼   ► And it looks really good to me from a design perspective, from a technology perspective,

00:45:12 ◼   ► but I do get the feeling that it's one of those, I call them Silicon Valley features,

00:45:18 ◼   ► you know?

00:45:19 ◼   ► It's these people live the perfect lives and they text each other about restaurants and

00:45:24 ◼   ► they can look up restaurants nearby and they can book reservations with OpenTable and they

00:45:29 ◼   ► can book an Uber and they can go around and use all of these smart services and apps.

00:45:35 ◼   ► real life is kind of messier than that outside of Silicon Valley and even in Rome. I wouldn't

00:45:40 ◼   ► imagine like, I would say 70% of these features, they wouldn't be possible in Italy right now.

00:45:46 ◼   ► So how do you, you know, how do you explain to people that you should switch the service?

00:45:53 ◼   ► Because in theory it looks great, you know, the demo looks great, you can see all these

00:45:57 ◼   ► integrations, but does it really work in the real world? I don't know. Is that enough to

00:46:02 ◼   ► convince people to switch because of smart replies and suggested stickers and emoji,

00:46:07 ◼   ► and because it tells you that it's a really cute dog. I mean, by the way, all dogs are

00:46:10 ◼   ► cute. I think. So anyway, I think it looks fantastic, I'm just not sure if in practice

00:46:17 ◼   ► it's enough to get people to move over.

00:46:20 ◼   ► Yeah, that is, I agree with you, like in a perfect world these things look great, but

00:46:25 ◼   ► maybe it works really well. I know how often I will be talking to somebody and then go

00:46:30 ◼   ► go Google something, right?

00:46:32 ◼   ► Like I will go and Google something,

00:46:33 ◼   ► look for an answer for something during the conversation.

00:46:35 ◼   ► It'd be nice if I didn't do that,

00:46:37 ◼   ► like you just keep it on the application.

00:46:40 ◼   ► They're using phone numbers for signup,

00:46:42 ◼   ► like something like WhatsApp and Telegram does.

00:46:44 ◼   ► I wonder how that's gonna work.

00:46:46 ◼   ► And it's gonna be cross-platform iOS and Android.

00:46:49 ◼   ► Like I wonder if they're gonna do, you know,

00:46:51 ◼   ► some services like WhatsApp,

00:46:53 ◼   ► they're like very much locked into the device that you're on

00:46:56 ◼   ► I wonder if they're gonna have like an iPad application

00:46:58 ◼   ► that you can use as well.

00:46:58 ◼   ► that will be key for them to do that.

00:47:01 ◼   ► Like, okay, you sign in with your phone number,

00:47:03 ◼   ► but you should still be able to get the messages

00:47:05 ◼   ► wherever you wanna get them.

00:47:07 ◼   ► So we'll see how that turns out.

00:47:08 ◼   ► - I mean, that's one of the things

00:47:10 ◼   ► that creates iMessage lock-in, right?

00:47:11 ◼   ► That I can be on my iPad or my Mac or my phone

00:47:14 ◼   ► and just talk to people.

00:47:16 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:47:17 ◼   ► - I don't have to worry about

00:47:19 ◼   ► where I left off on another device.

00:47:20 ◼   ► But I agree with you guys.

00:47:22 ◼   ► I mean, the cost of switching is like the problem

00:47:25 ◼   ► with all of these messaging apps.

00:47:27 ◼   ► and maybe Google will solve some of these problems

00:47:30 ◼   ► and it'll show up on the web and show up other places.

00:47:32 ◼   ► I mean, this is clearly step one.

00:47:35 ◼   ► But the most curious thing to me is like,

00:47:40 ◼   ► like we talked about with the platform services thing

00:47:46 ◼   ► with the Google Home, we're starting to see that now

00:47:50 ◼   ► in messaging, so are we gonna live in a world

00:47:53 ◼   ► where if I need to do something,

00:47:55 ◼   ► I need to be in Facebook Messenger

00:47:56 ◼   ► or you know, "Oh, I'm talking with you over here

00:47:59 ◼   ► "and I can't look up this piece of information."

00:48:01 ◼   ► Like, becoming increasingly fragmented

00:48:05 ◼   ► even in something like chat apps seems problematic

00:48:09 ◼   ► and kind of a pain to keep up with.

00:48:12 ◼   ► But I'm not, for one, I'm not super convinced

00:48:16 ◼   ► that I want, and not Google, I'll say this

00:48:19 ◼   ► with Facebook as well, that I want like robots

00:48:21 ◼   ► in my chat to go do things for me.

00:48:23 ◼   ► Like, I've not been proven, it's not been proven to me

00:48:27 ◼   ► that that utility is worth it yet.

00:48:29 ◼   ► But a lot of people are betting big on this, right?

00:48:32 ◼   ► Microsoft's doing it in Skype,

00:48:33 ◼   ► like lots of people are doing bots,

00:48:35 ◼   ► like that's the thing all of a sudden, so who knows?

00:48:38 ◼   ► - I guess we can thank Slack, right?

00:48:41 ◼   ► - Guess, I mean it seems to be where it started.

00:48:43 ◼   ► - Yeah, along with Allo is a video calling app called Duo.

00:48:48 ◼   ► Duo is also Android and iOS and will be

00:48:51 ◼   ► when they both come out in the summer.

00:48:53 ◼   ► There's a few things that Google are focusing on here.

00:48:55 ◼   ► Performing well on bad networks is something

00:48:57 ◼   ► that they're really trying to focus on.

00:48:59 ◼   ► They have something called Knock Knock,

00:49:01 ◼   ► which I think is interesting.

00:49:03 ◼   ► So this is a feature where when the phone call,

00:49:07 ◼   ► when the video call is coming in before you answer it,

00:49:09 ◼   ► you see the person.

00:49:11 ◼   ► So you can see what they're doing,

00:49:13 ◼   ► you can see where they are.

00:49:15 ◼   ► I think that this is kind of nice.

00:49:16 ◼   ► And the way that they're setting up,

00:49:18 ◼   ► and they have a cute video for it, of course,

00:49:20 ◼   ► But the thinking for me is video calls

00:49:24 ◼   ► are still really weird to receive.

00:49:27 ◼   ► If I receive a video call from someone,

00:49:29 ◼   ► I'm a little bit like,

00:49:30 ◼   ► why are they calling me on video right now?

00:49:33 ◼   ► Do they do this by accident?

00:49:34 ◼   ► Like what's happening?

00:49:35 ◼   ► If you can see someone is in a specific location,

00:49:38 ◼   ► you can see that someone's with their child

00:49:40 ◼   ► and they wanna say, hey,

00:49:41 ◼   ► they show stuff like,

00:49:43 ◼   ► there's like a girl who's showing her engagement ring.

00:49:46 ◼   ► Like if you can kind of get a bit of context

00:49:48 ◼   ► to why the video call is coming in. I think it takes away some of the barriers of making

00:49:53 ◼   ► the calls because you, as a person, initiating the call as well, are able to give contacts

00:49:59 ◼   ► before the person has to commit to showing their own face. I actually think that this

00:50:02 ◼   ► helps break down the barrier a little bit. I think it's a really nice feature.

00:50:06 ◼   ► I think it's very nice. I think it makes sense to kind of flip it the other way around.

00:50:12 ◼   ► And also from a technical standpoint it seems like the implementation is solid, like you

00:50:19 ◼   ► see the preview, then you swipe up and it's like there's no transition, it's seamless,

00:50:24 ◼   ► going from the preview, from the live preview to the actual video calling.

00:50:28 ◼   ► But there's just one point that I want to make, and that is with the current implementation

00:50:33 ◼   ► of something like FaceTime, when you receive a video call, the big preview on the screen

00:50:41 ◼   ► goes to the front camera and it shows your face, usually, before you take the video call.

00:50:48 ◼   ► And I think Apple does that, and I think other companies do that, because it's sort of like

00:50:53 ◼   ► looking in the mirror before taking the video call. So you can see how you look before you

00:50:58 ◼   ► respond. Yeah, that's a good point.

00:51:00 ◼   ► And if you don't have the preview, maybe it's just a small thing that you lose, being able

00:51:06 ◼   ► to check your face or check where you're actually at before you commit.

00:51:11 ◼   ► I don't remember off the top of my head, I'll see if I can try and find it, if there is

00:51:15 ◼   ► any kind of video preview on that screen still.

00:51:18 ◼   ► I think there's like a little round avatar.

00:51:21 ◼   ► Yeah, that's my memory in the bottom left hand corner or something.

00:51:25 ◼   ► My screen is small, really small.

00:51:27 ◼   ► Yeah, but it's there, but I get your point.

00:51:32 ◼   ► I think there's a counterpoint to all of that is my phone is on my desk and I have someone

00:51:38 ◼   ► sitting at my desk or I'm in a meeting and my phone's out and someone wants to video

00:51:44 ◼   ► chat with me in a way that I don't want shared.

00:51:49 ◼   ► Then you just look over at my phone, Federico is sitting next to me and you look over and

00:51:53 ◼   ► Myke is naked on my phone.

00:51:56 ◼   ► But the thing is, I understand what you're saying, but...

00:51:59 ◼   ► Does he do that?

00:52:01 ◼   ► Maybe.

00:52:02 ◼   ► puts someone else in charge of what shows up on my display.

00:52:05 ◼   ► And that is a little weird.

00:52:07 ◼   ► - Yeah, yes, I understand that.

00:52:10 ◼   ► But I feel like in most scenarios,

00:52:14 ◼   ► if someone's gonna call you with something

00:52:18 ◼   ► that you wouldn't want the world to see,

00:52:20 ◼   ► most of the time someone's gonna check with you

00:52:22 ◼   ► before they make that call.

00:52:23 ◼   ► - Yeah, exactly.

00:52:24 ◼   ► Can I video call you?

00:52:25 ◼   ► - Right, 'cause I know what you're thinking of, right?

00:52:27 ◼   ► Like if we just say like,

00:52:32 ◼   ► "Interesting times" we'll call it, for the time being. If someone is calling you for

00:52:37 ◼   ► interesting times, I would assume in most scenarios somebody is going to even know not

00:52:43 ◼   ► to call you at two o'clock in the afternoon on a work day.

00:52:45 ◼   ► They're just going to text you beforehand.

00:52:47 ◼   ► And will probably just clear with you in the first scenario that interesting times are

00:52:51 ◼   ► able to occur within the current parameters of location.

00:52:54 ◼   ► Oh yeah, no, I'm sure. But you know, it's just something to consider. And I had the

00:53:00 ◼   ► thought and it was kind of mean so I kind of feel bad for even sharing it that like

00:53:03 ◼   ► uh you know made people working on this like that didn't even cross their mind like

00:53:07 ◼   ► oh it definitely there's lots of upside to it if the same company is also talking about creating

00:53:12 ◼   ► incognito chats or discrete notifications they're thinking about interesting times yeah but uh so

00:53:17 ◼   ► it's it's just something to consider my guess is maybe there'll be a toggle uh people don't want it

00:53:22 ◼   ► there but uh...

00:53:25 ◼   ► I think it is an ingenious solution

00:53:27 ◼   ► to

00:53:29 ◼   ► the awkward problem of video calling

00:53:32 ◼   ► yeah there's trade-offs and this is one of them, Steven has a point

00:53:36 ◼   ► he says I don't want other people to decide what goes up on my screen

00:53:39 ◼   ► there should probably be a toggle you know? It would be better if you have an

00:53:43 ◼   ► Apple

00:53:44 ◼   ► device because it won't be able to show up on your screen you'll get a

00:53:47 ◼   ► notification first right?

00:53:50 ◼   ► on Android, I assume being Android there's going to be an option when I'm at the office

00:53:55 ◼   ► change how Duo works.

00:53:57 ◼   ► You make a joke, but yeah, probably.

00:54:01 ◼   ► There's going to be some way to do that.

00:54:04 ◼   ► The cross-platformness though, right?

00:54:07 ◼   ► That's huge.

00:54:08 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:54:09 ◼   ► I mean, Skype exists, there's a "one begins with a V" exists, but the idea of...

00:54:16 ◼   ► I can't remember the name, but like the idea of a...

00:54:19 ◼   ► What did you say? One that begins with a V?

00:54:21 ◼   ► There is a video calling service that begins with a V that I can't remember the name of.

00:54:26 ◼   ► But there is one that exists but I can't remember it.

00:54:29 ◼   ► Let's see, let's see Google. Video calling with a V.

00:54:33 ◼   ► Yeah that's not gonna help you. But anyway, you know, I think something that is probably

00:54:39 ◼   ► gonna be installed on everybody else's device that's not an Apple user, right? Like that's

00:54:44 ◼   ► a good thing. Like it's there, all you then need to do is download it. There isn't something

00:54:47 ◼   ► on the other end, you can't download the Android FaceTime app. Still waiting for that open

00:54:52 ◼   ► source protocol to come that Steve promised. Do you remember?

00:54:57 ◼   ► It's not gonna happen.

00:54:59 ◼   ► One day man, no I'm holding on, like you know, why would you lie?

00:55:02 ◼   ► I think it's because of a lawsuit or some kind with the parents, you know, not gonna

00:55:06 ◼   ► happen.

00:55:07 ◼   ► Yeah sure, I'm sure that was the reason. I, you know, we'll see what happens here. It's

00:55:13 ◼   ► more messaging services.

00:55:17 ◼   ► That's the problem for me when it comes to Google. They do these services, they look

00:55:21 ◼   ► good initially, then they launch them, people don't switch, they forget about them, they

00:55:25 ◼   ► leave them on the App Store for years and months, you know, and they don't receive updates

00:55:30 ◼   ► and eventually the world forgets about them and they unveil a new one. That's what they've

00:55:34 ◼   ► done in the past, you know, Google Chat, Hangouts, Google+, what's the name, Messaging, Messenger,

00:55:43 ◼   ► you know, they've done like four or five of them at this point. I don't have a lot of

00:55:48 ◼   ► faith and again, it's just, even setting aside Google's track record, it's just a problem

00:55:55 ◼   ► of practicality, of convincing people. Why should I switch from WhatsApp and Facebook

00:56:00 ◼   ► and Messenger and, you know, this other iMessage, for example? Especially when you consider

00:56:06 ◼   ► that this year WhatsApp is going to finally monetizing their platform with some kind of

00:56:12 ◼   ► bot system. So you can talk to hotels, you can talk to restaurants, you can talk to flight

00:56:18 ◼   ► companies for your ticket and that kind of stuff. So it's going to be a platform war,

00:56:25 ◼   ► but not in the sense of choosing your messaging service, in the sense of what can you do with

00:56:31 ◼   ► other platforms inside of your messaging app. And that's going to be interesting. And again,

00:56:36 ◼   ► I wonder if Apple is paying attention because it seems like any major messaging service

00:56:42 ◼   ► on earth that people are actually using, lots of people are actually using, are going to

00:56:46 ◼   ► be doing this kind of stuff.

00:56:48 ◼   ► iMessage?

00:56:49 ◼   ► Not so much.

00:56:50 ◼   ► So I don't know.

00:56:51 ◼   ► I don't want to see iMessage becoming the service that you use to receive confirmation

00:56:56 ◼   ► codes for web services, you know?

00:56:58 ◼   ► I don't care about iMessage going cross-platform.

00:57:02 ◼   ► is not something that I really need or desire, because the text messages are also in the

00:57:07 ◼   ► same application. What I do want to see is iMessage getting a lot of the stuff that you

00:57:12 ◼   ► spoke about in your iOS 10 thing. I want to see it just become a messaging service that

00:57:18 ◼   ► is aware that the internet exists. Because right now it's not. It's like the internet

00:57:23 ◼   ► doesn't exist outside of the blue bubble.

00:57:26 ◼   ► It's really glorified SMS right now. It's just fancier, just a little fancier, and free.

00:57:33 ◼   ► That's really iMessage, the whole proposition is free and, well, you can share, I don't

00:57:39 ◼   ► know, video and pictures, that's it. You can make groups. It's really the same iMessage

00:57:45 ◼   ► as we saw with iOS 5 back in the Scott Forsall days. May, rest in peace. Well, it's not that,

00:57:53 ◼   ► so...

00:57:54 ◼   ► I think it may be Rest in Broadway, I think that's his thing now.

00:57:57 ◼   ► He's having fun in Broadway, that's right.

00:58:00 ◼   ► So yeah, we'll see.

00:58:02 ◼   ► Alright, Android N. Let's breeze through some of this stuff,

00:58:06 ◼   ► because it's stuff that we've heard before.

00:58:07 ◼   ► They are saying that they want the world to suggest the name,

00:58:11 ◼   ► but this seems like total BS.

00:58:13 ◼   ► Yeah, that's not really true, it's just a marketing thing.

00:58:16 ◼   ► Yeah, they know the name.

00:58:17 ◼   ► There's like, I saw somebody tweet an image to the terms and conditions,

00:58:23 ◼   ► which basically, so I'll read it, it says "This is solely intended to be for entertainment

00:58:27 ◼   ► purposes. The name you submit will not be judged and there will be no prizes or compensation

00:58:32 ◼   ► awarded to any participant." So, okay.

00:58:35 ◼   ► Yeah. I mean, the name should be, and I'm gonna say it with the Italian version, Android

00:58:42 ◼   ► Nutella.

00:58:43 ◼   ► Yeah, I think that's probably where they're gonna end up going.

00:58:46 ◼   ► Do you guys say Nutella or Nutella? What do you say?

00:58:49 ◼   ► Nutella.

00:58:50 ◼   ► Nutella, okay.

00:58:51 ◼   ► that might be what they end up doing. Maybe they are struggling to get the licensing arrangement.

00:58:58 ◼   ► Yeah. That's why they now have this thing. Yeah. I thought initially that they might

00:59:04 ◼   ► be looking to break outside of the candy names, hence the suggestions. You know, I like something

00:59:10 ◼   ► like Android Nebula, you know, just sounds cool. Nebula, wow. But I assume that they're

00:59:15 ◼   ► still going to go down the candy route and then it's probably just going to end up being

00:59:18 ◼   ► Maybe what they're trying to do is prove to the Nutella people, I think it's Nestle again,

00:59:23 ◼   ► that so many people want them to call it Nutella, right?

00:59:26 ◼   ► So they're like, "Look, we have millions of people that said Nutella!"

00:59:28 ◼   ► Or maybe they can play the card of, "Look at all these great names we can choose, in theory,

00:59:34 ◼   ► but we really want to make you guys a favor and we want to use Nutella."

00:59:38 ◼   ► Yeah, do us a favor.

00:59:40 ◼   ► Android had some significant performance updates.

00:59:43 ◼   ► They have graphical improvements via something called Vulkan which seems a lot like Metal

00:59:49 ◼   ► on the face of it from my understanding.

00:59:51 ◼   ► You know like digging more into the GPU and harnessing that power.

00:59:55 ◼   ► Stronger security, file based and full disk encryption.

00:59:59 ◼   ► They talked about something called seamless updates which to me seems kind of genius.

01:00:03 ◼   ► They've borrowed this from Chromebooks.

01:00:05 ◼   ► Basically all installations of Android N have two installs on the device and updates are

01:00:12 ◼   ► downloaded and installed automatically on the not in use version of the

01:00:15 ◼   ► operating system and then the next time that you turn your phone on they switch

01:00:20 ◼   ► around so then you have the updated version. This just seems genius right?

01:00:25 ◼   ► So basically they're saying that Android devices now will stay up to

01:00:29 ◼   ► date automatically which I think that that is a really smart system that it

01:00:34 ◼   ► just happens in the background on a mirrored version of the OS and then they

01:00:37 ◼   ► just swap around. Yeah I think if Apple is gonna do that people are gonna find

01:00:41 ◼   ► all kinds of ways to use it for jet breaking.

01:00:45 ◼   ► - Yeah, probably.

01:00:46 ◼   ► But I mean, talking about updates,

01:00:47 ◼   ► I'm terrified to update my iPad right now, right?

01:00:50 ◼   ► There's all these stories of 9.3.2

01:00:53 ◼   ► breaking the 9.7 inch iPad.

01:00:54 ◼   ► - Yeah, I saw that, I saw that.

01:00:56 ◼   ► - So like, you know, I don't know.

01:00:59 ◼   ► - Should probably wait for now.

01:01:02 ◼   ► - Yeah, I'm just dismissing the update prompt.

01:01:11 ◼   ► It's just like, no, go away.

01:01:12 ◼   ► I'll put a link to a Forbes article.

01:01:14 ◼   ► But by the way, no, I'm not going to put a link

01:01:16 ◼   ► to a Forbes article because Forbes has the worst website

01:01:18 ◼   ► on the entire planet.

01:01:19 ◼   ► I will find somebody else.

01:01:22 ◼   ► - Look at you taking a stand.

01:01:23 ◼   ► Good for you, Myke. - Man, it's so bad.

01:01:24 ◼   ► If you ever visited the Forbes website on a mobile device.

01:01:28 ◼   ► - Yes, unfortunately, yes.

01:01:30 ◼   ► - It's like, who cares about layout?

01:01:32 ◼   ► - Oh, and you know that they used to,

01:01:34 ◼   ► some researchers found out that they used the,

01:01:37 ◼   ► you know the inspirational quote that they show you

01:01:39 ◼   ► before loading an article, some people, or maybe some companies behind the ad, use that

01:01:45 ◼   ► screen to inject malware in people's browsers.

01:01:48 ◼   ► Yeah, of course they do. Of course they do, thanks Forbes.

01:01:51 ◼   ► Funny times at Forbes.

01:01:52 ◼   ► Anyhow, so I think that's really cool. They have some productivity enhancements, so I

01:01:58 ◼   ► quite like this one. They remove infrequently used apps from the multitasking tray automatically,

01:02:03 ◼   ► so you don't have like an infinite list.

01:02:05 ◼   ► See, I have many thoughts about that.

01:02:08 ◼   ► Because people, both on Android and iOS, people do that.

01:02:12 ◼   ► Keep doing that all the time.

01:02:13 ◼   ► All my friends close all of their apps, you know?

01:02:16 ◼   ► Well, I mean, the idea is, like, I was multitasking earlier, and I have, like, 60 items in there,

01:02:22 ◼   ► which don't need to be there.

01:02:23 ◼   ► I only need, like, 10.

01:02:24 ◼   ► Right?

01:02:25 ◼   ► So that's one thing that they're doing.

01:02:26 ◼   ► So they're just automatically clearing things that you don't use.

01:02:29 ◼   ► They do have a clear all button, which upsets me, and I know upsets them to put in there,

01:02:34 ◼   ► but they said like due to popular demand. It's like people ask us for this button so

01:02:38 ◼   ► we just put the button in.

01:02:39 ◼   ► If you close these apps on Android, do they also stop execution of tasks in the background?

01:02:45 ◼   ► Or is it just, okay, so it's just a visibility thing?

01:02:49 ◼   ► Yeah, it's getting rid of the multitasking tray.

01:02:51 ◼   ► When you do that on iOS, you also stop the background refresh, I think, which is, you

01:02:56 ◼   ► know, the problem that people say you shouldn't force quit your apps on iOS, and you shouldn't,

01:03:01 ◼   ► you know, every time close the app. But I do get why it's important to have that feature,

01:03:06 ◼   ► because so many times, you know, apps have bugs, and the only way to get them to work

01:03:10 ◼   ► again is to force quit them and start them up again. And so I don't think Apple will

01:03:17 ◼   ► ever remove the ability to force quit apps, and I see people say, you know, Apple should

01:03:21 ◼   ► just disable people from doing that. And that's never gonna happen, you know? Never, ever

01:03:26 ◼   ► gonna happen, because people need to be able to force quit software.

01:03:29 ◼   ► I like the idea of having that tray cleared up a little bit.

01:03:33 ◼   ► Yeah, I see that, it makes sense. Maybe it's time to, you know,

01:03:38 ◼   ► just make it a visibility thing on iOS also,

01:03:41 ◼   ► and not necessarily tied to background stuff.

01:03:44 ◼   ► It's a tricky problem to solve, I don't know.

01:03:47 ◼   ► Double tapping the multitasking button will switch you to the previously used application.

01:03:52 ◼   ► I like that. So you'll be in Chrome, you open Messages, then you just double tap the multitasking button,

01:03:57 ◼   ► you're back in Chrome again.

01:03:58 ◼   ► This is nicer than covering the status bar.

01:04:01 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's like a physical command tab.

01:04:03 ◼   ► - Yeah. - I think they said, yeah.

01:04:04 ◼   ► - Yeah, they did.

01:04:05 ◼   ► They're bringing split screen and picture in picture,

01:04:08 ◼   ► which is great. - Of course.

01:04:10 ◼   ► - They are the first to support the 72 new emoji

01:04:14 ◼   ► in Unicode 9. - Yeah.

01:04:16 ◼   ► Well, we're gonna see that in iOS 10 or 10.1.

01:04:18 ◼   ► - Yeah, they just wanted to say we're first.

01:04:19 ◼   ► And it's in the base that it's out now,

01:04:21 ◼   ► so technically they are first,

01:04:22 ◼   ► and there are some great ones in there.

01:04:25 ◼   ► I was sending them in our Slack today

01:04:26 ◼   ► that nobody could see,

01:04:27 ◼   ► because I have my Android device, like avocado, bacon,

01:04:31 ◼   ► whiskey in a jar, they have a shrugging person.

01:04:33 ◼   ► That's some great emoji in there.

01:04:34 ◼   ► - Oh, shrugging person?

01:04:35 ◼   ► - Yes, shrugging person.

01:04:36 ◼   ► - That's gonna be the best one this year.

01:04:38 ◼   ► - You use it all day, every day.

01:04:40 ◼   ► They have improved notifications with quick replies

01:04:42 ◼   ► and easy access to settings, which are quite like,

01:04:44 ◼   ► you can hold on the notifications,

01:04:45 ◼   ► say stop telling me about this application for a while.

01:04:48 ◼   ► It's kind of cool. - Oh, nice.

01:04:49 ◼   ► Nice, there should be a 3D touch feature on Android.

01:04:51 ◼   ► - I agree completely.

01:04:52 ◼   ► Well, there should be a 3D touch to clear all notifications,

01:04:54 ◼   ► but hey, huh.

01:04:56 ◼   ► One of the other big pillars of Android M,

01:04:58 ◼   ► which was not previously announced, is virtual reality.

01:05:01 ◼   ► So Google are building something called Daydream.

01:05:04 ◼   ► It's like the next kind of evolution

01:05:06 ◼   ► from the Cardboard initiative.

01:05:10 ◼   ► Basically Daydream is multiple things.

01:05:13 ◼   ► It is baked in support for VR into Android.

01:05:17 ◼   ► So they're putting it into the operating system.

01:05:20 ◼   ► They are going to be,

01:05:21 ◼   ► and they have created a reference design

01:05:23 ◼   ► for a headset and controller to be used.

01:05:25 ◼   ► and they're also releasing tools to developers to build great VR applications.

01:05:30 ◼   ► They said that several phones are daydream ready for later on this year.

01:05:34 ◼   ► They've been talking to manufacturers, and there are also a bunch of manufacturers

01:05:37 ◼   ► creating headsets and controllers that will be available in the fall as well.

01:05:42 ◼   ► We didn't really see the headsets.

01:05:46 ◼   ► Yeah, they don't have one, that's why.

01:05:47 ◼   ► Just like a blueprint of a sketch.

01:05:50 ◼   ► They haven't built one.

01:05:51 ◼   ► They probably will have a Nexus version, but they're just not ready to show it yet.

01:05:55 ◼   ► We've talked on our other show, Myke, "Remaster", about VR and how I believe that eventually

01:06:01 ◼   ► all VR is going to be mobile. And I think this shows that Google is also thinking this

01:06:06 ◼   ► way that the screen of the phone that you use every day, so in the future, this is the

01:06:11 ◼   ► idea, in the future the computer is going to be the phone. So from people in the 80s,

01:06:16 ◼   ► people in the 90s, the computer was the thing at the desk, people from, you know, 20 years

01:06:21 ◼   ► from now the computer is going to be a phone. And the phone, it can be the device that you

01:06:25 ◼   ► carry around and that you look at, and it's also the device for virtual reality. That's

01:06:30 ◼   ► the idea.

01:06:31 ◼   ► But when you think about it, right, it's way easier to say to somebody, "Buy this headset

01:06:36 ◼   ► and controller for $50 or whatever," than, "Make sure you have a computer that can run

01:06:42 ◼   ► this or a PlayStation and then spend over $400 or $700 on the headset." This is why

01:06:48 ◼   ► mobile VR is probably gonna win out this initial run?

01:06:53 ◼   ► There's two problems. One is probably temporary, which is can current phones be capable of

01:07:01 ◼   ► handling powerful, credible VR experience?

01:07:05 ◼   ► The answer is no, because they're saying all the Daydream phones are coming later this

01:07:08 ◼   ► year, right? They can't right now.

01:07:10 ◼   ► So that's only getting started. And the second, which is a bigger problem, still don't know

01:07:14 ◼   ► the answer, because we're really just getting started with VR. We've been talking about

01:07:19 ◼   ► VR since like four years, since the Oculus Kickstarter campaign, but we're really starting

01:07:24 ◼   ► to get VR today in practice. The biggest problem, which we still don't know the answer for,

01:07:30 ◼   ► is "Is VR socially acceptable? Is it going to be a thing? Or is it going to be a fad

01:07:36 ◼   ► and we're going to forget about it?" I mean, it's possible, it's cool today, but it's like

01:07:41 ◼   ► If somebody came up with the idea of a crazy technology, like a flying car, and it's totally

01:07:50 ◼   ► cool, it's possible, but you're gonna look like a dork, or there's a risk of dying.

01:07:56 ◼   ► Just because it's possible doesn't mean that it's gonna take off.

01:07:59 ◼   ► That's my idea.

01:08:01 ◼   ► VR is possible, maybe it's great today, are we sure it's gonna take off?

01:08:07 ◼   ► It's gonna be accepted by people and it's gonna be normal in the future?

01:08:10 ◼   ► We still don't know.

01:08:11 ◼   ► No idea.

01:08:12 ◼   ► Will we get over the social awkwardness of a screen on our face?

01:08:16 ◼   ► We don't know yet.

01:08:17 ◼   ► But all I know is the very limited experience I have with VR is I want it all in my life.

01:08:22 ◼   ► Like I want it.

01:08:23 ◼   ► Because it's amazing.

01:08:26 ◼   ► I still don't know.

01:08:27 ◼   ► See, you tried the Oculus, I still haven't.

01:08:29 ◼   ► I'm looking forward to having, I hope, the PlayStation VR demo units at the GameStop here

01:08:36 ◼   ► in Rome, maybe sometime in the next few months.

01:08:39 ◼   ► That's what I'm hoping to get. Or maybe when I'm in San Francisco, someone, so this is

01:08:46 ◼   ► an open call to our listeners, friends of the show, if you happen to have an Oculus

01:08:51 ◼   ► Rift in San Francisco during the week of WWDC, please let me try one.

01:08:55 ◼   ► Oh, there'll be tons of companies that have them. So yeah, if you have one in an office

01:08:59 ◼   ► that's close to Moscone or something like that, send us an email or get in contact with

01:09:05 ◼   ► Federico. We want to come and see it.

01:09:07 ◼   ► Federico wants to try one. Thank you, I would really appreciate that. And again, we can

01:09:12 ◼   ► exchange, we can trade. You let me try the Oculus and I buy you coffee.

01:09:17 ◼   ► Yeah, someone's gonna, they're gonna be there, so we just need to find the place.

01:09:21 ◼   ► Okay, awesome.

01:09:23 ◼   ► Android Wear 2.0 was the next part. So, something I didn't know, but there was a limitation

01:09:30 ◼   ► between what custom watch faces and custom complications could be paired together. That's

01:09:34 ◼   ► now been taken away all custom watch faces can show custom complications

01:09:37 ◼   ► that's great it's weird that it couldn't do that but you know what I wish I could

01:09:41 ◼   ► get custom watch faces so like you know swings and roundabouts you can one thing

01:09:48 ◼   ► that I really like you can get a message and you can draw with your finger a

01:09:51 ◼   ► response I know it's kind of ridiculous but sometimes I don't really get it

01:09:55 ◼   ► sometimes you could be out in the street and you don't want to talk into your

01:09:59 ◼   ► watch but if I can just say if I can just draw and say what I want to say

01:10:03 ◼   ► because a lot of the time the smart quick replies aren't necessarily going to answer the question

01:10:09 ◼   ► that is being asked of me. There are some times where I would get a slack message when someone

01:10:15 ◼   ► says "oh are you going to be around today what time" and I could just say "I'll be"

01:10:20 ◼   ► or just say 4 p.m. I would like to be able to do that. I know it's kind of ridiculous but...

01:10:26 ◼   ► Shouldn't you just use your phone at that point?

01:10:28 ◼   ► Sure but what if I don't want to, right? Like the whole point of me having...

01:10:33 ◼   ► But the whole point of me having this watch is to use the watch.

01:10:37 ◼   ► What's the point of me seeing something and then going to get my phone out?

01:10:39 ◼   ► I might as well just never had the watch in the first place.

01:10:42 ◼   ► I mean, between the ridiculous keyboard that they showed and handwriting recognition, and,

01:10:48 ◼   ► you know...

01:10:49 ◼   ► The keyboard is insane.

01:10:50 ◼   ► No, it doesn't really make sense.

01:10:52 ◼   ► I can't understand how the keyboard can work.

01:10:54 ◼   ► I just cannot understand that.

01:10:55 ◼   ► But the handwriting recognition, great.

01:10:57 ◼   ► Let's go for it.

01:10:58 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, between the two, handwriting all the way.

01:11:00 ◼   ► And I think maybe if you accept that, even the way that the screen kind of moves horizontally

01:11:06 ◼   ► to follow handwriting and to transcribe what you're drawing, I think it's also kind of

01:11:12 ◼   ► cute.

01:11:13 ◼   ► I just, maybe I don't see the appeal, but once you explain that, and I kind of get it,

01:11:18 ◼   ► maybe.

01:11:19 ◼   ► But I feel like for me, the Wear 2 was the weakest announcement of the show.

01:11:26 ◼   ► I think there's just less there.

01:11:27 ◼   ► I mean, but it did have a couple of things that I would like the Apple Watch to do.

01:11:31 ◼   ► So the keyboard entry, they said about the ability for Android Wear devices to automatically

01:11:36 ◼   ► start tracking fitness stuff.

01:11:38 ◼   ► I would like the Apple Watch to be able to do that.

01:11:40 ◼   ► Like the Apple Watch doesn't know I'm exercising until I tell it.

01:11:44 ◼   ► See that's one of my problems with the Apple Watch because I remember that a couple of

01:11:50 ◼   ► years ago Apple bought this company that they had this technology with a wearable device

01:11:57 ◼   ► to automatically detect what type of workout you were doing. And I had big hopes for the

01:12:04 ◼   ► Apple Watch to have this feature, which is you don't have to go to the workout app and

01:12:08 ◼   ► to say "look I'm about to do running" or "I'm about to do whatever it is people do at the

01:12:15 ◼   ► gym", it's just the watch recognizes what you're doing. And I really wanted to have

01:12:20 ◼   ► that. And maybe in the future, but you know, automatic workout recognition, that's, you

01:12:25 ◼   ► know, I think it's a really great feature for a wearable device. Because it's just natural,

01:12:30 ◼   ► you know, it's like having a personal trainer with you that says, "Look, I see you're doing

01:12:36 ◼   ► that, good job." Instead, it's a wearable device that you have on your wrist and it

01:12:40 ◼   ► tells you, you know, you don't have to open an app and say what you're about to do, I

01:12:45 ◼   ► can just keep track of that automatically. I think that's really smart. I think that

01:12:48 ◼   ► should happen with the Watch 2 in the future.

01:12:53 ◼   ► There's also a lot of stuff about decoupling the Watch, so apps on Android Wear 2.0, see

01:12:58 ◼   ► I think this was big but it didn't spend enough time on it. The apps can be standalone, they

01:13:03 ◼   ► can run on a device, they're able to connect to Wi-Fi, Bluetooth and cellular where it's

01:13:06 ◼   ► supported on their own and do their own stuff. That's what we all want with WatchOS and Android

01:13:15 ◼   ► where 2 has got it. Maybe we're gonna get it in watchOS 3, I think we will, but I think

01:13:20 ◼   ► that they just, they basically just ran through this section. And if they, and I expect there's

01:13:25 ◼   ► actually a lot more interesting stuff in there than they gave away. Because they had something

01:13:29 ◼   ► pretty big and weird to get to. Yeah, I mean the watch was fast and I'm sure we'll spend

01:13:36 ◼   ► more time talking about it leading up to June, but for me, like, part of the idea of having

01:13:42 ◼   ► the watch is like something simple like if I'm out mowing the yard I can leave my phone

01:13:46 ◼   ► inside and still you know get text messages and respond and do that sort of stuff and

01:13:51 ◼   ► it just doesn't it just doesn't work and so I think there's a lot of opportunity for Apple

01:13:56 ◼   ► to to look at what this is doing and maybe improve on in some areas I agree that the

01:14:02 ◼   ► keyboard text thing is a little weird but across the board I would like to be able to

01:14:06 ◼   ► text like type to my devices like ask Siri a question by typing like I think Apple has

01:14:10 ◼   ► a lot of work to do there but I think maybe we're finally seeing like smart

01:14:15 ◼   ► watches kind of finally become their own thing as opposed to just a satellite

01:14:20 ◼   ► device and that that's pretty exciting to me.

01:14:23 ◼   ► The last thing Google announced was Android Instant Apps. This is a big one.

01:14:31 ◼   ► This is very strange. It is basically the next evolution of deep linking because

01:14:38 ◼   ► what it's doing is deep linking but maybe to an app that you don't have

01:14:43 ◼   ► installed. So you'll get a link to something like they used like a B&H

01:14:49 ◼   ► photo and somebody sent them a link to the store or they was in a Google search

01:14:56 ◼   ► and they clicked it instead of it going to be an B&H's website it took them to

01:15:01 ◼   ► the application so the Google Play Store jumps into the middle and just downloads

01:15:07 ◼   ► the piece of the application that you need right at that second. Basically Google is

01:15:12 ◼   ► saying goodbye to the web.

01:15:14 ◼   ► >> Yes.

01:15:15 ◼   ► >> Developers need to modularize their applications, but they say that it's not a ton of work.

01:15:21 ◼   ► They said it's a day of work. And it said, depending on how complex your app is, okay?

01:15:26 ◼   ► So it's seven months of work. You can then, when you're in the application, they also

01:15:30 ◼   ► show like Buzzfeed videos. Somebody sent them a Buzzfeed link. They opened it. It opened

01:15:34 ◼   ► in the Buzzfeed video app, and then there was an install button, so you could then install

01:15:38 ◼   ► the application if you wanted to. And the way that they described it was your app would

01:15:43 ◼   ► be just a tap away on a billion devices, which is a very tasty proposition. I actually think,

01:15:54 ◼   ► looking at this, and looking at deep linking on iOS, I see the potential for Apple to do

01:16:00 ◼   ► this as well. Why would they not do this?

01:16:03 ◼   ► I feel like there's a fundamental fork in the road, maybe, for links and the web on

01:16:12 ◼   ► mobile devices.

01:16:14 ◼   ► Because we're at the point where the functionality of native apps and the integration with the

01:16:19 ◼   ► hardware is so ahead of what is possible to do with a mobile web app.

01:16:26 ◼   ► So we're talking about integration with payment systems.

01:16:29 ◼   ► NFC on Android, native assistance.

01:16:33 ◼   ► I said about NFC, something that was really cool, is like instead of downloading like

01:16:37 ◼   ► a parking meter application, you just hold it up to the parking meter and it just downloads

01:16:42 ◼   ► the necessary parts for that specific parking meter and just plays it.

01:16:47 ◼   ► Like that was cool.

01:16:48 ◼   ► Yeah, so we're at the point where native apps have all of this functionality that is completely

01:16:55 ◼   ► or mostly cut off from the mobile web, which also happens to be slow and to, quite frankly,

01:17:02 ◼   ► suck these days.

01:17:04 ◼   ► So the idea here is we're using the web and we're using links as the backbone for identification

01:17:14 ◼   ► of content, but we're actually redirecting users to the superior native app experience.

01:17:22 ◼   ► And how do we make that better? By splitting up apps in different portions, and you let

01:17:32 ◼   ► the OS take care of the content that you need to see, and in just maybe a couple of seconds,

01:17:38 ◼   ► instead of having to wait for a web page and having fewer functionalities than a native

01:17:43 ◼   ► app, you're shown just that bit of a native app that you need to see to engage and interact

01:17:50 ◼   ► with content. And I feel like it's the next logical step for any kind of deep linking,

01:17:57 ◼   ► which is you remove the overhead of users having to go to the app store, download the

01:18:04 ◼   ► app, and then open the app, maybe sign up, and then eventually get to the content. Instead,

01:18:10 ◼   ► you use the link and you use the deep link to bring up an instant app, a native app,

01:18:17 ◼   ► as all of the features that you expect, so native sharing, maybe assistant integration,

01:18:23 ◼   ► payment integration, so you don't have to insert all of your details again.

01:18:29 ◼   ► And at that point, it becomes clear that there's going to be maybe a future where HTML and

01:18:37 ◼   ► JS on the web are just fallback options, and they're mostly used to provide hierarchy,

01:18:45 ◼   ► provide directions, but all of the content that we're looking for is native code, and

01:18:52 ◼   ► it's native app content. I don't know how I feel about this, especially because I write

01:18:57 ◼   ► on a website. Maybe that's going to be okay, but it's just we're at the point where the

01:19:07 ◼   ► native apps have so many more integrations than mobile websites, so many more native

01:19:12 ◼   ► features that people expect, that it just seems obvious to me, and looking at what Apple

01:19:18 ◼   ► is doing with universal linking, on-demand resources on the Apple TV, which is the idea

01:19:23 ◼   ► of splitting up apps in bits and pieces and TVOS can get those pieces on demand.

01:19:30 ◼   ► It's not too crazy to think that eventually, maybe not iOS 10, maybe iOS 11, you use universal

01:19:37 ◼   ► linking and on-demand resources, maybe the next evolution of that technology, to have

01:19:42 ◼   ► something like Instant Apps on iOS as well.

01:19:45 ◼   ► I think both companies are approaching the same problem from two different perspectives,

01:19:51 ◼   ► but the end goal, I feel like it's the same.

01:19:55 ◼   ► One thing that I'm struggling with with this is the data required to download the section

01:20:00 ◼   ► of the application would surely be larger than the data required to access the website?

01:20:07 ◼   ► Well, it depends, right? There are some websites that can ask you for over 10 megabytes of

01:20:12 ◼   ► data or maybe, you know, 12, 15 I've seen also. So it's a problem that kind of mirrors

01:20:18 ◼   ► the current state of the web. It's so slow and so confusing and it doesn't have all of

01:20:25 ◼   ► the features of native apps, I do understand why Google is doing this. I mean, even if

01:20:31 ◼   ► you look, you should have seen this coming, right? Because Google has been thinking about

01:20:35 ◼   ► this deep linking problem for longer than Apple. They've done in the past, you know,

01:20:41 ◼   ► that feature where you look up something on Google search like a recipe and you're given

01:20:46 ◼   ► a Google Play result and you click that and in a bunch of steps you're taken to a newly

01:20:53 ◼   ► installed app and into that content. That is sort of the ancestor of Instant Apps on

01:20:59 ◼   ► Android. But I feel like Apple has all of the sudden list to get all of the pieces of

01:21:05 ◼   ► the same puzzle together. Because there's just an advantage of tapping a link and being

01:21:12 ◼   ► taken into a native app instead of a website. For as great as Safari is on iOS, I buy the

01:21:20 ◼   ► argument that sometimes universal links can be annoying because you actually want to be

01:21:25 ◼   ► in the browser, but in most cases I do like the fact that I tap on a link to a tweet and

01:21:30 ◼   ► I'm taken into the Twitter app, or I tap a link to Spotify and I'm taken into the Spotify

01:21:35 ◼   ► app instead of the web preview. I do like that. And maybe there should be a way to make

01:21:39 ◼   ► it easier for people to be shown this content. Honestly, if done well, with respect to bandwidth,

01:21:49 ◼   ► to data, to letting people choose what they want to do, letting developers choose what

01:21:56 ◼   ► they want to do, I don't see any disadvantages. If only setting aside the philosophical problem

01:22:02 ◼   ► maybe that weblinks should always go to a website, but I feel like we're past that stage

01:22:09 ◼   ► and the ship has sailed metaphorically.

01:22:13 ◼   ► I don't get that argument, like weblinks should go to a website. Like weblinks should go to

01:22:18 ◼   ► wherever the owner of that web link wants it to go. That's the way I look at it, right?

01:22:23 ◼   ► Like if Twitter decides they want it to go to their app, great. If they don't, they just

01:22:27 ◼   ► don't implement it. They own the website.

01:22:30 ◼   ► Yes.

01:22:31 ◼   ► Steven, do you disagree with that? I feel like if anyone's going to disagree with that,

01:22:35 ◼   ► it might be easier.

01:22:36 ◼   ► Yes.

01:22:37 ◼   ► I do disagree with that to a degree. I think that there should be some type of user control

01:22:43 ◼   ► there that I can you know choose to some degree what I want to happen when I tap

01:22:52 ◼   ► on a link because the worst thing we've all done this is you tap on link because

01:22:56 ◼   ► you need it to be in one place or the other and it does like the wrong thing

01:23:00 ◼   ► and on iOS there's no recourse for that like I guess I can uninstall the Twitter

01:23:04 ◼   ► app so it stops doing it but I think that there should be some sort of some

01:23:09 ◼   ► sort of options built around that and I think that if if this is where we're

01:23:15 ◼   ► headed and definitely seems that that's the case to a degree that there should

01:23:19 ◼   ► be some sort of expectation set around what developers should do with that and

01:23:26 ◼   ► how they should be handled and you know a lot of times you see like universal

01:23:31 ◼   ► links these deep links like acting in unexpected ways sometimes and of course

01:23:35 ◼   ► you know the big one is people will throw one up to like launch the App

01:23:39 ◼   ► store is like part of spam type stuff and like that there should be some

01:23:44 ◼   ► preventative measures there to keep it from being abused but I mean I like

01:23:50 ◼   ► the open web I don't know particularly in love with the philosophical argument

01:23:54 ◼   ► that we should all be moved into silo apps but I cannot argue with your point

01:23:58 ◼   ► that it is markedly a better experience especially when it comes to payment

01:24:02 ◼   ► right like those examples they used for the most part were around payment where

01:24:06 ◼   ► I feel like if I can be in an app and use Apple Pay, then that is inherently more secure

01:24:13 ◼   ► than giving a website my credit card number.

01:24:19 ◼   ► And I don't think Apple's going to open Apple Pay to the web in a way that would be useful.

01:24:24 ◼   ► So there are trade-offs there, but I would hope for some sort of middle ground as far

01:24:29 ◼   ► as expectations and control.

01:24:33 ◼   ► So guys, you know, I've been thinking about the Google I/O announcements, right? We've

01:24:38 ◼   ► seen there's lots of interesting stuff happening. And I mean, we're all Google users to a degree.

01:24:45 ◼   ► We're using Google Apps, we're using Google services. And I've been thinking, you know,

01:24:50 ◼   ► I do love the IOS ecosystem and I do love the App Store. And I feel like there's nothing

01:24:55 ◼   ► like the IOS App Store. But I feel like I should be, I was thinking like I should be

01:25:00 ◼   ► more knowledgeable about technology in general. Like, I've been writing for seven years about

01:25:06 ◼   ► Apple, but I'm interested in technology in general, and I do have lots of other devices

01:25:11 ◼   ► not made by Apple. So I was thinking last night, like, there's especially, you know,

01:25:18 ◼   ► ahead of my iOS 10 review this year, like, I was thinking I should do more to know more

01:25:27 ◼   ► about what's going on outside of the Apple ecosystem.

01:25:30 ◼   ► And so I've done something last night, and I bought an Android phone.

01:25:38 ◼   ► (dramatic music)

01:25:41 ◼   ► you