0:00:00[Music]
0:00:06From Reel AFM, this is Connected, episode 91. Today's show is brought to you by Text Expander
0:00:12from Smile. My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined by Mr. Federico Vittucci. Ciao Federico!
0:00:18Ciao Myke!
0:00:19And howdy Mr. Stephen Hackett.
0:00:20Wow, I don't even know how to respond to that.
0:00:24You say howdy back.
0:00:24Howdy.
0:00:26There you go, perfect. Howdy y'all.
0:00:29It doesn't sound convinced for some reason.
0:00:32Yeah, it's not really my thing, but let's just do the show.
0:00:37So we moved the show by a few days so we could cover the Google I/O keynote and all of the
0:00:43announcements that came out of there.
0:00:45But what this did was not really give us enough time to remind you that our t-shirts are on
0:00:50sale.
0:00:51So if you are listening on the 19th of May 2016, you have but merely a few hours left
0:00:59to buy t-shirts. They will go off sale today on the 19th of May. There is a link in our
0:01:06show notes if you want to buy a t-shirt. Thank you to everybody that did and I hope that
0:01:11you're able to get them. I'm sorry if you can't. You should follow us all on Twitter
0:01:15because we've been tweeting about it. If you missed out then you need to pay more attention
0:01:20to our Twitter timelines.
0:01:21Myke is a good person to follow on Twitter. He has a lot of good tweets.
0:01:25I have a lot of insight and most of it's spelt incorrectly so you've got that kind of play
0:01:29as well.
0:01:30You have a lot of good tweets and good typos.
0:01:33So it's part informational, part kind of comical.
0:01:37It's basically how I present myself all the time, part information, part entertainment.
0:01:41Yes.
0:01:42You know?
0:01:43Yes.
0:01:44That's what I'm all about.
0:01:45It even follows through to my Twitter timeline.
0:01:46Just a very quick piece of follow up, there's also a piece of follow out.
0:01:50episode 27 of Under the Radar on Relay FM, you get to hear David Smith and Marco Arment
0:01:55have a great conversation about the benefits of fast app review based on what we were talking
0:02:00about last week. It definitely seems like the fast app review was not a blip, this seems
0:02:04like a new trend. I'm seeing more and more people tweeting about it, I'm having more
0:02:08people tell me about how quickly their apps are going through review. And this was a good
0:02:12kind of look at what fast app review could do, good and bad, for developers. Spoiler
0:02:19alert, it's more good. Go listen to episode 27 of Under the Radar.
0:02:23We were given the full set of data by app review times and Graham put together a series
0:02:30of charts for Mac service and you can clearly see that there's a huge drop lately in app
0:02:38review times and it's really amazing to look at that and especially to hear from developers
0:02:46saying this is such a huge change, you know, I submit an app at like 10am in the morning,
0:02:53at 1pm is in review, and at 3pm is approved. Like, that's a major change.
0:02:58Like, it's fundamental, right? Like, it's not just like "oh, this is quicker". This
0:03:04fundamentally changes the way that people can develop applications.
0:03:08Yeah, absolutely.
0:03:09It is a massive step change that if this is the way it works now, is going to make some
0:03:16big and sweeping changes across iOS development, which is excellent.
0:03:24And I hope that it remains.
0:03:25So we'll see.
0:03:26Initially, I had the concern that maybe Apple was just approving everything and then asking
0:03:32questions later, like, let's approve everything and then if something is wrong, we can reject
0:03:38apps at a later stage. But it doesn't seem that way because I've seen developers say
0:03:43"I submitted an app but App Review got back to me with actual feedback and questions about
0:03:48a feature or maybe, you know, notes about a bug or a crash" and they were able to do
0:03:55so with an actual human being because they were looking at the actual app. So it's not
0:04:00like App Review is fast now. And I've seen a few people make this joke. App Review is
0:04:04so fast because there's really no one looking at submissions anymore, Apple just approves
0:04:09everything. Doesn't seem to be the case because they're getting back to developers
0:04:14quickly with questions and notes about crashes and bugs, which I assume can only come from
0:04:20actual reviewers looking at the apps. So that's great news. Definitely seems to be more people.
0:04:26I feel like what they're doing is something along the lines of more intelligent computer
0:04:32data-driven acceptance, right? Along with an increase in people.
0:04:40It feels like there has to be both of those things and I don't know how you
0:04:44could do it without both of them. It just feels like that's the only way
0:04:49that they could do this. I wonder if this becomes part of WWDC
0:04:54announcements. I feel like it kind of has to, but we'll see.
0:04:58Yeah, kind of ramping up for WWDC and say, by the way, we've been testing this for
0:05:02Imagine if you should have said you have been testing this for a month and I really like
0:05:06it.
0:05:07That would be really nice.
0:05:10But yes, I agree.
0:05:11It seems to be the case.
0:05:12We'll see.
0:05:13All right, so we're going to talk about Google I/O today.
0:05:17The Google I/O keynote was yesterday as we recorded this.
0:05:22It was Wednesday the 18th.
0:05:24Google had a bunch of stuff and we're going to talk through some of the things that we
0:05:29find the most interesting.
0:05:31So one of the first points I think of note is the venue for Google IO this year.
0:05:36So a lot of Google IO is happening kind of in and around Google's campus and the kind
0:05:42of surrounding property.
0:05:44And the IO keynote was at the Shoreline Amphitheatre, which is an outdoor music festival located
0:05:51basically immediately behind Google's campus.
0:05:55So they put IO on there and they had like 7,000 people I think in the audience and it
0:06:01looked like a rock concert which was really weird but I bet it felt really cool.
0:06:08Like I bet it had a really interesting and exciting feeling to it.
0:06:11I mean I bet it's gonna fit, WWDC is gonna feel like that too because they're doing it
0:06:16at a music venue, right?
0:06:18You know like the watch event, the watch event was at Bill Graham right?
0:06:23And it looked strange, right?
0:06:24They had those boxes along the side walls and stuff.
0:06:26It looked like a music venue.
0:06:28But being outside is a whole different thing.
0:06:31The problem that Google probably couldn't have foreseen is that there currently is a
0:06:35heatwave in that part of San Francisco.
0:06:39And I think temperatures were around 90 degrees.
0:06:43And not everybody was in the shade.
0:06:45What's that in actual degrees?
0:06:48I think it's like high 30s or something.
0:06:5290 Fahrenheit to Celsius. Hey Siri, what's 90 degrees Fahrenheit in Celsius?
0:06:58I don't understand what you mean. 32 degrees, okay, thank you Siri. That's hot.
0:07:05Yeah, quite a bit, yes. And I saw they gave out sunscreen to attendees at the
0:07:14Google I/O. They also had a little pack that came with like a scarf you could put on
0:07:19your head. I mean what are you gonna do, right? Like you wanted to do it in a different venue
0:07:25and it's hot and sunny. Like, you know, I kind of feel like you can't really criticize
0:07:28them so much. It's like, what are you gonna do? Like, it's a heatwave. Like, you can't
0:07:34stop that. Well, it's California so at least you don't have to worry about it raining.
0:07:38But it is interesting. It's, you know, Apple's run into it too where like there's just not
0:07:43venues indoors large enough for the people that they need to have in attendance.
0:07:50I mean, what else can you do except go to some big outdoor stadium like this?
0:07:55So, this is an interesting view.
0:07:58Yasmin Evian, who is one of the hosts of Material on Relay FM, she tweeted,
0:08:02"Outdoors is a fun twist for tech conferences, but standing in the sun
0:08:07for an hour to get into a session is bad."
0:08:09Like, and she was tweeting it later on that like, she missed a session because it was
0:08:14full, then had to wait outside in the sun for like another 90 minutes or something to
0:08:18get into the next session.
0:08:21That's not great, right?
0:08:22Like, it's like, that's uncomfortable.
0:08:24And I don't really know what you do, but it's like, that's kind of the situation.
0:08:28But mentioning Yasmine, Material recorded at Google.
0:08:35That's amazing.
0:08:36Yeah.
0:08:37Their episode I think will maybe be coming out sometime today.
0:08:41I'll put a link in the show notes to the material podcast, go and subscribe.
0:08:44Like they're gonna have a better take on this than us for sure.
0:08:47But like yeah, I just... can you imagine us recording at Apple?
0:08:51Never gonna happen.
0:08:52Yes, I could imagine that.
0:08:55But it's never gonna happen.
0:08:56But they recorded at Google.
0:08:58So well, I mean, we could we could sit on the curb and record with a portable microphone
0:09:03just outside of infinite loop.
0:09:05I'm sure I've read something recently that like if you stand outside on the sign for
0:09:09too long there's like a security guard will come and shuffle you away.
0:09:14Could we sit in the car and drive around the loop and record...
0:09:20Like a power slide.
0:09:21...power sliding around the campus?
0:09:24I think we should give it a go.
0:09:25I have one of those like, I have one of those little microphones you can plug into a lightning
0:09:30port.
0:09:31were recording from Apple, but just, you know, were circling the campus.
0:09:36I feel like they maybe got a better deal than we did.
0:09:39Yeah, I think so.
0:09:42It, um, yeah, the one thing I saw some people on Twitter had it, there's like, there's these
0:09:48big exhibits, because it's all outdoors, right?
0:09:50You can just do whatever you want.
0:09:51There's like a robot that's painting a giant rotating cube, like flinging paint at it,
0:09:55which is the most Google thing ever.
0:09:58Also, I kind of want one to put in my yard, but I think they have to drive the self-driving
0:10:03cars buzzing around too.
0:10:05Yeah, just mowing people over.
0:10:07It's fine.
0:10:09It's new and I think it's exciting.
0:10:12My guess is that Google will probably continue to do this, but I think I would expect some
0:10:16tweaks to it as they sort of work out the kinks.
0:10:20Because what you've done in this scenario is you've created a festival, which is a great
0:10:26kind of idea, like they've turned Google I/O into a developer festival rather than
0:10:31a conference, and I hope that they continue to go down that route, because that sounds
0:10:36like you're going there to learn stuff, you're going there to find out information, but why
0:10:41not make it fun as well, right, rather than everybody just being inside of a conference
0:10:45center all day.
0:10:46Right.
0:10:47Yeah, initially I thought the idea of a keynote outside was also in conjunction with something
0:10:53related to augmented reality or something in the sky, I don't know, like drones or
0:11:00Project Loon flying by. I thought about that but it didn't seem to be the case.
0:11:06It seemed purely just they wanted a bigger venue and it was the one that made the most
0:11:09sense to them because it's right outside.
0:11:11Yeah, exactly.
0:11:12I mean, this is the company that had people skydive onto the Roscosky and you're wearing
0:11:17Google Glass, so I can see where you got that Federico.
0:11:21That was awesome man. I know a lot of people didn't like that but like as far as product
0:11:25demos go, it's a pretty good product demo.
0:11:27Yeah. The closest one in the Apple world is when they introduced like airport wireless
0:11:33networking.
0:11:34And they jumped off the platform.
0:11:36So they had Phil Schiller like on a scaffold and he had iBook and they had an accelerometer
0:11:41attached to it and they were sending data from it across the wireless network and he
0:11:45he jumped like 15 feet onto this big mattress.
0:11:49And it's a really funny, we'll dig that up and find it,
0:11:52put it in the show notes, but it's a really funny
0:11:55little moment of weird stuff.
0:11:58But I think that stuff is important to get people excited.
0:12:01Going to WWDC feels like a conference, and that's fine.
0:12:07And clearly people are excited, they're like
0:12:08fist pump guys ready to go.
0:12:11But I agree with you, Myke.
0:12:12I like the idea that the atmosphere could be different
0:12:14that like taking something like I/O or WWDC and giving people like more freedom to
0:12:22mill about and interact with people and be in a different environment can lead
0:12:26to some really interesting things just between developers communicating so I
0:12:31think they'll my guess is they'll continue to do this but um I don't see
0:12:35Apple doing it anytime soon but I think it would be fun for Apple to change
0:12:39things up sometimes too.
0:12:41Yeah, I mean certainly Skyyaving is better than the Anki toy cars that we got at WWDC
0:12:47a few years back.
0:12:48Oh god, why did you bring that up?
0:12:49I know that we talk about the music presentation as like a bad presentation, but the Anki cars
0:12:57was worse in its own way, because it meant nothing, there was no reason for it, and it
0:13:03was at the start of what was a fantastic WWDC presentation.
0:13:08Very peculiar.
0:13:09Very, very peculiar.
0:13:10Just watching and going like, "Why are you showing this?
0:13:14And why is it not working even?"
0:13:16It was kind of weird.
0:13:17Yeah, it was horrific.
0:13:18All right, so let's talk about what was happening here.
0:13:20So one of the big kind of prevailing things that went throughout Google's keynote was
0:13:26something that they're calling the Google Assistant, which seems to be like the big
0:13:31brother of Google Now.
0:13:34And it seems like what Google have done is they're taking everything that they've learned
0:13:38from machine learning and from all of the speech stuff that they do and all the queries
0:13:43that they have to run and they're turning it into an assistant, something that you can
0:13:48have an ongoing two-way dialogue with. And they're building some of this stuff in now
0:13:53and they were showing a lot of stuff where that what they wanted the future of it to
0:13:57look like, you know, and like Sundar Pichai, who I love, like just guy is so cool. Anyway,
0:14:07He was basically showing that you could have a conversation around booking some theatre
0:14:12tickets like movie tickets with it. So you'd say like what's on tonight and it will show
0:14:16you some stuff and be like I want something that's family friendly and it will refine
0:14:20it. Then you say it will say oh what about Jungle Book and you'll say is that movie good
0:14:24and then it'll be like here's some reviews it seems like people like it. And Google said
0:14:27this is all stuff that they can get but they're like building it out now to the point where
0:14:31you can have this sort of conversation with it. And one of the things that they really
0:14:35focus on, and rightly so because they do it well now, is questions around context. And
0:14:41this is in Google Now in the new Android and beta anyway, you can do it, where you can
0:14:47ask a question and then ask it a follow on question. Should I give it a go?
0:14:51Yes.
0:14:52Alright, so give me a person like, hang on, let me try this. Okay, Google, who is the
0:14:58Prime Minister of the United... oh, it stopped, hang on, I am running a beta here.
0:15:04- This is-- - Okay, Google.
0:15:06Who is the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom?
0:15:10- David Cameron is the Prime Minister of United Kingdom.
0:15:16- Okay, Google.
0:15:18How old is he?
0:15:19- He's 49 years old.
0:15:24- That's what they can do.
0:15:25- Yeah, okay.
0:15:26- Right now, I know the demo's a bit wonky, but whatever.
0:15:31The context and the follow on questions
0:15:33is something Google can understand,
0:15:34because what it was doing was looking at the page.
0:15:37So remember that Google Now on tap thing?
0:15:39Where basically it will look at what's on the page
0:15:43and make suggestions to you?
0:15:44That's what I believe it's doing there,
0:15:46is I have the David Cameron Google page open at that point,
0:15:49and it's seeing who's on the page
0:15:51and understanding the questions.
0:15:53Siri can't do this stuff.
0:15:54Follow on questions just seem to throw it through a loop.
0:15:59Like if you set a timer and ask it to stop the timer,
0:16:02like I can set a timer! I was like no you what are you doing? like do you want me to
0:16:05kill you? this is the sort of stuff that Google's able to do and this is the sort
0:16:10of stuff that they're starting to build and it seems like eventually this Google
0:16:15Assistant will be with you everywhere and then the rest of the a lot a lot of
0:16:19the following on chunks of the keynote have Google Assistant as a core part of
0:16:24what is going on. It seems to me that the Google Assistant is a combination of
0:16:31Google Now, Voice Search, Google Now On Tap, you know, it's a bunch of things
0:16:36taken together using the same technology, but obviously Google is sort of jumping
0:16:40onto the chatbot trend. It's like the ultimate chatbot, right? Yes, it's like a
0:16:46conversational experience, you can text the Google Assistant in the new, what do
0:16:51you say, "Hello", "Hello", "Hello" app, you can text the assistant and it seems like
0:16:58they're sort of going after the trend, but when they say we believe we have the best
0:17:03technology and we're ahead of any competitor, I tend to believe that. And it's interesting
0:17:09to me, however, that not even in this case with the Google Assistant, we're not seeing
0:17:16the ability yet to combine multiple commands together. For example, I've always wanted
0:17:22to be able to say "turn off my lights" and "turn on the coffee maker". You know, it's
0:17:27two different commands. And it seems that any assistant is still not capable of doing
0:17:31that, because right now they're focusing on context, which makes sense, you know, before
0:17:36getting onto multiple commands, you want to nail down the context portion, which I think
0:17:42it's, you know, it makes sense. Still, the demo from Google from the assistant is impressive,
0:17:47especially when you consider that they're already working on a developer platform. Interestingly,
0:17:53going to be a bunch of partners already working with the Google Assistant and with the Google
0:17:59Home, which we're going to talk about shortly. What do you guys think of Google getting into
0:18:05this space? I thought it was interesting to kind of see that approach with the Assistant
0:18:14and with the Google Home saying, "We want to thank the team of Amazon and we're working
0:18:19on these features." It's so different.
0:18:23I mean I think it's the the natural evolution of Google's technology.
0:18:28Say Google now is really great and can do a bunch of good stuff but it is locked away
0:18:35on iOS behind an app or on Android in a couple different places but you have to go to it
0:18:41right if you're on a desktop you have to go to the browser to go do it.
0:18:45So Google is locked away sort of in its own area and what this is doing is putting it
0:18:51you are more directly so if you have it sitting on your kitchen counter you just
0:18:54yell at it or if you have it in your chat app you can just talk to it
0:18:59directly and they are trying to integrate it more kind of out yeah in
0:19:04the real world and I think that's the like the Amazon echo is showing that
0:19:09that's the next step for a lot of the stuff is that you know I can set a timer
0:19:13on my phone or my watch but I have to interact with them both to do that right
0:19:22I have to touch them because I have a hoy telephone turned off because it only
0:19:26trips when I listen to podcasts but with something on the counter I can just yell it in
0:19:30it's always listening and it does a better job anyways so I think I think
0:19:34Google's moving into that space and I think it's completely reasonable and I
0:19:38think it's where all this stuff maybe not Apple we can get to that but I think
0:19:41that's where these other companies are definitely headed to in a hurry.
0:19:45I think at this point Siri is starting to feel really, you know, backwards, really antiquated
0:19:52if you will. I mean the fact that Google and others can handle context better, they, you
0:20:00know, they have assistance or they will have assistance that you can text. You can have
0:20:05conversations without having to, you know, talk out loud in public. And the fact that
0:20:10there's an integration with services, you know, from any developer can plug into these technologies.
0:20:15I think Siri is starting to feel a lot like a limited version of this idea that Apple had a
0:20:22few years ago and hasn't really improved meaningfully. I mean, Siri, you can make the argument
0:20:26that Siri supports more languages and it can handle native tasks better, I don't know,
0:20:34but it seems to me like Apple's idea of privacy and we don't want to use machine learning too much
0:20:43to understand what our users do, it seems like we're starting to see the practical
0:20:48counter-effects of that policy, which is Google, Amazon, to an extent Microsoft, Facebook,
0:20:56they're going beyond what Siri can do, and I'm not sure if Apple can catch up, not necessarily because
0:21:03of engineers and technology, but because of their own ideals, and I think that's a big
0:21:08problem.
0:21:09Yeah, I mean, I think that quite a few things that are going to come across in this conversation
0:21:17today is, for me, that Google is kind of winning a lot of this stuff, and as an Apple user,
0:21:26I am concerned that I don't think Apple can do some of this stuff, and are we going to
0:21:32start missing out. So one of the biggest parts of this is Google Home. So this is
0:21:37basically Google's Echo competitor. It will be available later this year. I would
0:21:42expect internationally, and it seems like they may be announcing it now to try and
0:21:47get ahead of any potential competition. They want to show that they're in the
0:21:50game here, right? Everything's controlled by voice. It looks to me
0:21:55way nicer than the Echo. It's much smaller and you can customize it.
0:22:00you can different finishes and different colors and stuff like that so I think it
0:22:05looks more akin to something you would have in your house than the echo does
0:22:09which looks like this kind of terrifying tube of death. Speaker. Yes. It looks I don't know the
0:22:14the echo looks super intimidating to me. It looks like the the the Jeff Bezos
0:22:19version of the eye of Sauron from the Lord of the Rings. I can see that.
0:22:25The Google home will do a lot of the stuff that you're used to with these
0:22:29types of things like the Echo, like it will play music, it will connect with home automation
0:22:35products including Nest products of course. There will be an API, they flat out said that
0:22:41they're going to have an API. It will do something I really like, you can hook it up to Google
0:22:45Chromecast so you can like plug Chromecast and Chromecast audios into devices in your
0:22:51home and you can say things like play music in the front room and it will do that. And
0:22:57think that's super smart. That's something too that Amazon seems prime to be able
0:23:01to do if you have the Echo and the Fire TV stick and as far as I know they don't
0:23:06talk to each other but I can see Amazon being just at the cusp of doing this
0:23:11sort of stuff as well where you have a smart speaker always listening and it
0:23:15can control media on other devices.
0:23:18Sonos does a little bit of that right with all their connected stuff
0:23:22but it seems like Amazon could do this as well.
0:23:25They had a demo video that they showed which was amazing.
0:23:29Like it was just so good.
0:23:31One of my favorite things is like a lady's getting dressed,
0:23:35she's getting ready for the day and she just says like,
0:23:38"Okay Google, I'm listening."
0:23:39Oops, there we go.
0:23:41[laughter]
0:23:42And it based then that the home just told her everything
0:23:47that was happening in the day and things that might be an issue.
0:23:50So she's like, "Oh, you've got a meeting at this point,
0:23:53"but there's traffic on the road, do you wanna do anything?"
0:23:55She's like, "I'll text Mary and tell her that I'll be late."
0:23:57Like it was a really good kind of way of doing it.
0:24:01And then obviously they had the cute stuff
0:24:02with the kid asking questions,
0:24:04but they had like the dads getting,
0:24:06trying to wake everybody up and he's like,
0:24:07"Play music in every room of the house
0:24:10"as a way to like wake everyone up."
0:24:12The demo video was really great.
0:24:16And I think that this product is gonna be cool.
0:24:18And I'm going to wait to see what happens, but I probably will get this over an echo
0:24:23just because I think that Google has more ability to do this better.
0:24:30I think it has a stronger underpinning and a longer history of dealing with voice commands.
0:24:37And I think that there's going to be, depending on what their API looks like, stronger and
0:24:41deeper integrations with companies and services.
0:24:45But part of the problem of all of this is,
0:24:48it really works better when you're all in on a platform.
0:24:50Like having an Android phone will obviously
0:24:52make this whole thing better.
0:24:54And this is where I start to think that we're gonna
0:24:56get left in the dust a little bit as Apple users,
0:24:58because I just can't see Siri Home product.
0:25:02I just don't see it happening.
0:25:04It just doesn't feel like that's something
0:25:05that we're gonna see even the next six months or so.
0:25:07Like I just don't see it.
0:25:09- You know, I don't know about what you say
0:25:12if as iPhone users we're gonna miss out.
0:25:14Because, I mean, the primary interface of this is going to be voice.
0:25:19And Chromecast, you can buy one and you can configure one from an iOS device.
0:25:24The integration with third-party services doesn't matter if you use an iPhone or an
0:25:27Android phone, you can plug in Spotify, you know, other apps.
0:25:30No, no, it's a good point.
0:25:31But I just feel like, so there are things like where he asks for something and he's
0:25:36like, "Can you send that to my phone?"
0:25:37And you just know that's not going to be as nice.
0:25:39It's going to be locked inside of a Google app.
0:25:41Yeah, yeah.
0:25:42Yeah, there's going to be some limitations, but I feel like it's going to be, you know,
0:25:46like 80% of the experience that you would otherwise get on an Android phone. But what
0:25:51matters is that you're putting Google into your home and you're, you know, even from
0:25:56an iPhone you're plugged into a Google ecosystem. You're not plugged into an iCloud or Siri
0:26:00ecosystem, you know, and that is starting to be a big problem for Apple to have, you
0:26:04know, clearly there has to be improvements to Siri and to open up Siri. If Apple believes
0:26:10that voice, especially inside the home, because we've seen it doesn't really work in public,
0:26:17especially inside the home. It's just more natural, more conversational. But that only
0:26:20gets better if you can collect more data and if you can open up an ecosystem for developers
0:26:25to build upon. And I feel like when you consider the Amazon Echo and Google, Google is maybe
0:26:31the best representation of the principle that there's no data, like more data. And Google
0:26:37Google has lots of them. And I also agree with you when you say that maybe Google is
0:26:42better positioned to tackle this in the future, you know, because they've been doing this
0:26:47for a long time. And I mean, Google has built their own TPUs, the Tensor Processing Units.
0:26:53It's basically like TensorFlow is the Google system for machine learning and such, and
0:26:58AI. And they have built their own, instead of a CPU or a GPU, a TPU, which they've been
0:27:04using it in a data center for over a year, which is crazy. Google is going all in on
0:27:10AI, machine learning, to power these consumer products, such as the assistant on a phone,
0:27:16and the Google Home speaker thing. So I feel like there's a lot of potential here, and
0:27:23for different aspects of normal life, because in the end it boils down to what can you do
0:27:31with this thing in normal life. So I see a bunch of openings, such as, you know, there's
0:27:37potential for a Sonos-like setup when you consider the Chromecast and playing audio
0:27:43in different parts of the house. That could be possible, you know, you just need to buy
0:27:47a Chromecast audio and plug it into any kind of speaker, any kind of soundbar.
0:27:50Which are like $30, they're not expensive.
0:27:53Exactly. There's integration with developers. If you look at the Google Home partnership
0:27:58slides. You can see Spotify, you know, not just Google Music, which kind of sucks, but
0:28:05you can also do Spotify. WhatsApp, that's interesting, I've seen WhatsApp, so Facebook
0:28:10is apparently working with Google to bring WhatsApp messaging to Google Home, which is
0:28:16intriguing to me. And I feel like there's a... what the Amazon Echo started, maybe Google
0:28:24can perfect, you know, and can grow into a bigger platform, and I'm really... I would
0:28:30love to be a fly on the wall inside of Apple's office in Cupertino and see what they think
0:28:36of the idea of a Siri device inside the house. Because obviously people don't like using
0:28:41Siri in public, because it's just dumb. You cannot... I've seen people talking to Siri
0:28:46in public and it's just awkward, and you cannot text Siri, so that's a big problem, and the
0:28:52The best place to use Siri is when you're walking around the house or when you're driving.
0:28:57But when you're inside the house, what are the chances you're constantly walking with
0:29:02the phone in your hands?
0:29:03I mean, I do use my phone inside my house, but you know, I'm also doing house stuff,
0:29:08and it would really be more convenient to be able to, you know, I'm not saying to yell
0:29:13at Siri, but to kind of talk normally, to talk normally and anyone can talk and anyone
0:29:18can ask questions.
0:29:20I think the Amazon Echo and maybe in the future the Google Home, those are the kind of devices
0:29:24that you don't really get until you try them, but once you do, and I'm primarily talking
0:29:29out of experience with the Amazon Echo, once you do, they really click and they make sense.
0:29:33At least that's what happened to me.
0:29:35Well, I think Apple's answer to that is the Apple Watch.
0:29:38Why would you have something locked on your way in your kitchen when you're in the bedroom,
0:29:42you have your watch on, just hit the button and talk to your watch, right?
0:29:46I think they're trying to do the same type of things and you look at like the basic stuff
0:29:52of you can do iMessage you can do homekit stuff if your your home stuff supports that
0:29:57like they're trying to do the same thing but instead of it being a cylinder on the counter
0:30:01it's something that strapped to your wrist all the time no matter where you are you may
0:30:04in the backyard and do it.
0:30:06I don't know which one is right I know between my Apple Watch and my Echo that I use the
0:30:11Echo way more or especially for voice stuff.
0:30:16So maybe the cylinder speaker design works better for me at least, but I think Apple's
0:30:23already kind of putting Siri everywhere we are, just in a different way.
0:30:28Yeah, I don't know.
0:30:30I know I'm excited about this product though.
0:30:34Like I don't feel like, I just don't feel like the Apple Watch is going to be the product
0:30:39that can do something that this can, and it's based on microphone technology, you know?
0:30:45things, these home listening devices are full of microphones, where the watch I don't think
0:30:51is as good because it doesn't do a great job of picking up what I'm asking it to do. But
0:30:55I understand and agree with what you're saying Steven that I think that is the ideal of what
0:31:01Apple's looking for. But I don't think that they've achieved it.
0:31:05You know, by saying that I'm excited about Google and what Amazon are doing, I'm not
0:31:11saying that Apple is doomed when it comes to Siri and the Assistant stuff, I'm just
0:31:16saying that Apple has to make some necessary steps to improve what they have. So there
0:31:21are some obvious limitations, I would say three of them. You cannot text Siri, you cannot
0:31:26have a real conversation with real follow-up questions, and there's no developer platform.
0:31:31These are the three key pillars upon which I think Apple should improve Siri. And if
0:31:36they do, and if they can come up with a system to collect data without being creepy, without
0:31:41actually knowing all the things they don't want to know, so taking a different approach
0:31:45than Google, I don't know how, but there must be some technical compromise they can
0:31:49make, I think they have a chance. Because especially on iOS, there can be a different
0:31:56approach. iOS has a richer app ecosystem, and Siri on iOS could have a richer app integration
0:32:04then Amazon can only talk to web services and Google doesn't have the same rich native
0:32:11app ecosystem as iOS. So Apple can take a different approach, but there's some fundamentals
0:32:15that they need to improve. And I think those three key features are what I'd like to see
0:32:20for Syria WWDC. But I don't know.
0:32:23And I think you touched on it a second ago, but the philosophical difference between the
0:32:28two companies has never been clearer to me when looking at this sort of stuff. And I
0:32:33I mean all three of us use Google services,
0:32:35our business runs on the back of Google apps.
0:32:38I've got no problem with Google's supposed privacy.
0:32:43My whole photo library is in Google Photos.
0:32:46I'm a Google user.
0:32:47But there is this thread, at least in parts
0:32:51of the nerd community, that Google is creepy,
0:32:54or Google is spying on you.
0:32:55And I just think that's a lot of baloney.
0:32:57But there is a difference between the two companies.
0:33:00Apple one reason Siri is limited in what it can do is that Apple hasn't opened it
0:33:04up and even when you're on your device
0:33:07Siri doesn't have all like the access that something that that like something
0:33:13like the Google Assistant would have because you know they're not looking in
0:33:17your iCloud account for a bunch of stuff you know if like if you signed into
0:33:21Google on the web and you have an Amazon receipt in your inbox and you search for
0:33:27for like, oh, I bought this camera or whatever.
0:33:30It shows a little link to that message
0:33:32in the Google results.
0:33:33Google can do all that stuff because they're not afraid
0:33:35to break those walls down, and Apple is.
0:33:38And I'm not saying which one is right
0:33:40or which one I prefer, I'm gonna sidestep all that,
0:33:43but there is a clear difference.
0:33:44And for something like an assistant that knows
0:33:48everything about your digital life,
0:33:49who can do everything a real assistant can do,
0:33:52they can handle messaging, they can handle invitations
0:33:56your calendar and sending notices people all that stuff that requires a level of
0:34:00access that Apple doesn't grant itself to its user data and so how could Siri
0:34:06ever catch up how could how could a Siri home assistant or Siri being better in
0:34:11iOS it just can't do that stuff because of those those boundaries and that is
0:34:16something that if that's the decision that Apple stands by and there's no reason to
0:34:20believe they're going to change their mind on that then we as iOS users and as
0:34:25people in the Apple ecosystem just need to understand that there's some things
0:34:30out there that we can't use you know like like I I used Gmail for my personal
0:34:34email address but all my contacts and calendars are in iCloud because I share a
0:34:37lot of stuff with my family members and that just means that I can't tell the
0:34:42echo to ask them into my Google Calendar because my calendar is in iCloud and
0:34:46you have to know where those boundaries are and if you're living in a mixed
0:34:50platform environment knowing that you're going to hit broken things because of
0:34:54decisions made from a political and philosophical level.
0:34:58You know, ultimately it comes down to trading convenience and utility for an idea, and you
0:35:06gotta choose.
0:35:09There's Google people, let's call it Google people, they believe in convenience and utility,
0:35:14and I can see why.
0:35:15Because when I open the Google app, and on the front page there's a little box that tells
0:35:20me "You know, your Amazon Echo is shipped and your Nintendo game is on the way", because
0:35:26they look into my email inbox, and because they parse that, and they show me a photo,
0:35:30and they show me a tracking link, and they save me time, I can say "Okay, that's convenient,
0:35:35that's useful". But there's Apple people that say "You know, we don't want to look at your
0:35:40stuff, we don't want to do any smart processing, we don't want your data". And so it's two
0:35:46different camps and personally when I see what can be done with Google and when I see
0:35:53what cannot be done with Siri, I'm kinda, you know, I say, you know, I miss this stuff
0:36:00and I use the Google app on iOS, but it's still a limited experience. Now, you know,
0:36:07iOS has a stronger, I believe, has a stronger app ecosystem. The kind of innovation that
0:36:14that you see on the App Store, for the iPhone, for the iPad, and even to an extent for the
0:36:17Apple Watch, I'm gonna say.
0:36:20I don't think you can get that on Android.
0:36:22And I think Apple has a real opportunity to integrate Siri with apps.
0:36:27Maybe there can be some local processing they can do, and I believe they do that for proactive
0:36:32recommendations, which are not great, but maybe there's a way to build upon that.
0:36:36And I think Apple has a real chance to leverage all these amazing apps on iOS and to improve
0:36:44Siri in ways that are not creepy, to work with developers and to say "we can make
0:36:49our own assistant, we can make it different and it can still be useful", you know?
0:36:53And if you want, you can still use the Google apps on iOS and you can still get 70%, 80%
0:36:58of the advantages of the benefits of Android.
0:37:02And you can get it on iOS because Google can make iOS apps.
0:37:07So I don't know what's it gonna be, you know?
0:37:10I would like to see those basic improvements to Siri.
0:37:14And I feel like at this point we're seeing the direction the industry is going for the next few years.
0:37:21So AI, machine learning, having text conversations with bots, having assistance inside the house,
0:37:31virtual reality, but that's another topic.
0:37:33I feel like these are going to be the next, as Steve Jobs said, the next horses you want
0:37:40to bet on.
0:37:42The technologies that are on the rise.
0:37:45So it'll be interesting to see what Apple does.
0:37:47But today, even if you look at something like Gboard, the Google keyboard, the auto corrections
0:37:53are way better than the Apple keyboard.
0:37:56And that's because they use machine learning.
0:37:58But the compromise, it's a custom keyboard.
0:38:00It doesn't really work well on iOS.
0:38:02That's where we're at today.
0:38:04All right.
0:38:07This wasn't all that Google announced.
0:38:08They announced some other interesting stuff and some other weird stuff, but let's take
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0:40:23of this show.
0:40:24All right, so Google also announced a new messaging app,
0:40:30which I don't think anybody expected, called Allo,
0:40:34which I love the name, right?
0:40:37Allo.
0:40:38That's how I should call it, but won't.
0:40:40So this is something else that they announced,
0:40:42which was surprising, I think.
0:40:44I don't think that anybody was really expecting
0:40:48that this was something that we were gonna see from them,
0:40:50another messaging app,
0:40:51especially when this isn't replacing anything.
0:40:54- Actually, in the Mac stories Slack, the day before,
0:40:58our credit to Jake, he said,
0:41:02I believe Google is going to do some messaging
0:41:04and music stuff, and sure enough, we saw the speaker
0:41:08and we saw the messaging app, so, you know.
0:41:12Some people saw it coming, but it's probably just Jake.
0:41:15So congratulations, Jake.
0:41:17- I think the idea of them creating a messaging service
0:41:20that doesn't replace and just is in conjunction with a messaging service that they already
0:41:24had is a very peculiar thing.
0:41:28Like six of them at this point. How many does Google have?
0:41:32I think they'll have two now once this comes out. So the way that Google is presenting
0:41:39this is a smart messaging service that has all of the richness of Google with inside
0:41:44your Messenger application. It has stickers, it has emojis, it has something called whisper
0:41:48shout where I thought this was kind of cute, most people think this is ridiculous, so you
0:41:53can type something into the text field and you can hold on to the send button and you
0:41:58can increase the text size or decrease the text size by moving your finger up and down,
0:42:03so it's like imagining you want to shout something or whisper something. I think this was kind
0:42:06of cute, I kind of liked it.
0:42:09I think it's a really good interaction. I saw people making fun of it, they're like
0:42:12"oh it's just a text size". Yes, but the way that you rethink it on a mobile device, that's
0:42:17what makes sense. And I think it's really well done. Instead of being like desktop controls
0:42:24for font sizes, which is what these people were making fun of, it's a slider and it makes
0:42:29it bigger or smaller. It's a really fun interaction from a design perspective.
0:42:32I'm glad you agree with that. Because I think so. Smart replies. So we've seen this stuff
0:42:38before, but they're again using their learning to create smart replies. They will learn your
0:42:43frequently used emoji and stickers and will present those as smart replies that you can
0:42:46app. They're using their machine learning on photos so it can understand what's in an
0:42:51image and suggest smart replies for you. So like for example, they had a picture of a
0:42:56dog and it would be like, "Oh, that's a really nice breed of dog." Right? It can also do
0:43:02stuff like read what's in the message and suggest things. So say somebody says to you
0:43:05like, "Do you want to go out to eat tonight?" The Google Assistant will suggest restaurants
0:43:11that are located near you. They know your preferences. Then you can all within the messaging
0:43:16application, find out information about the restaurant and then book it through something
0:43:19like OpenTable. So you don't ever need to leave the chat to Google something. Google
0:43:23is within the chat. They're going to have an API to allow companies to integrate and
0:43:28as Federico was mentioning earlier, you can also, at Google, to call the Google Assistant
0:43:33in to any chat and you can also have one-on-one chats. So you can use the Google Assistant
0:43:37to bring in images, videos, you can even play games with it. I love that they gave some
0:43:42time to incognito chats. It just seemed like a funny thing to put up on stage. Disappearing
0:43:48messages and expiring conversations, end-to-end encryption, and discrete notifications for
0:43:53any incognito chat that you have.
0:43:55I love the way that Americans say incognito, because it's so different to me. It's in Italian.
0:44:02Incognito.
0:44:03Ah, of course you would. Silent G. Yep, that's so much nicer. But it's just funny to me.
0:44:09I know why you do it, we all know why it's there,
0:44:12but like, I don't know, it's just a funny thing
0:44:14to put up on stage, right?
0:44:15Like, those secret conversations that you like
0:44:17to have with people that maybe you shouldn't,
0:44:19we're building a feature for that, right?
0:44:21Like, all right, cool.
0:44:23My thing about all this is all of this looks really good.
0:44:27So when I look at something like, quite frequently,
0:44:30me and Federico have moved all of our conversations
0:44:33to Telegram, and Telegram is a really nice chat service.
0:44:35I use WhatsApp for people in my family.
0:44:37This looks like it has all of the stuff that I'm used to and some really interesting extra stuff.
0:44:41But why would I leave my current messaging service?
0:44:44Yeah.
0:44:45And how do I get everyone in my life to meet me?
0:44:47Exactly. Exactly.
0:44:49It's the same problem with any chat service that is not Facebook Messenger or WhatsApp or iMessage.
0:44:56How do you convince people?
0:44:58Google is obviously betting on these smart features.
0:45:02I don't know if those are enough to explain to people and to show them the benefit.
0:45:07And it looks really good to me from a design perspective, from a technology perspective,
0:45:12but I do get the feeling that it's one of those, I call them Silicon Valley features,
0:45:18you know?
0:45:19It's these people live the perfect lives and they text each other about restaurants and
0:45:24they can look up restaurants nearby and they can book reservations with OpenTable and they
0:45:29can book an Uber and they can go around and use all of these smart services and apps.
0:45:35real life is kind of messier than that outside of Silicon Valley and even in Rome. I wouldn't
0:45:40imagine like, I would say 70% of these features, they wouldn't be possible in Italy right now.
0:45:46So how do you, you know, how do you explain to people that you should switch the service?
0:45:53Because in theory it looks great, you know, the demo looks great, you can see all these
0:45:57integrations, but does it really work in the real world? I don't know. Is that enough to
0:46:02convince people to switch because of smart replies and suggested stickers and emoji,
0:46:07and because it tells you that it's a really cute dog. I mean, by the way, all dogs are
0:46:10cute. I think. So anyway, I think it looks fantastic, I'm just not sure if in practice
0:46:17it's enough to get people to move over.
0:46:20Yeah, that is, I agree with you, like in a perfect world these things look great, but
0:46:25maybe it works really well. I know how often I will be talking to somebody and then go
0:46:30go Google something, right?
0:46:32Like I will go and Google something,
0:46:33look for an answer for something during the conversation.
0:46:35It'd be nice if I didn't do that,
0:46:37like you just keep it on the application.
0:46:40They're using phone numbers for signup,
0:46:42like something like WhatsApp and Telegram does.
0:46:44I wonder how that's gonna work.
0:46:46And it's gonna be cross-platform iOS and Android.
0:46:49Like I wonder if they're gonna do, you know,
0:46:51some services like WhatsApp,
0:46:53they're like very much locked into the device that you're on
0:46:56I wonder if they're gonna have like an iPad application
0:46:58that you can use as well.
0:46:58that will be key for them to do that.
0:47:01Like, okay, you sign in with your phone number,
0:47:03but you should still be able to get the messages
0:47:05wherever you wanna get them.
0:47:07So we'll see how that turns out.
0:47:08- I mean, that's one of the things
0:47:10that creates iMessage lock-in, right?
0:47:11That I can be on my iPad or my Mac or my phone
0:47:14and just talk to people.
0:47:16- Yeah.
0:47:17- I don't have to worry about
0:47:19where I left off on another device.
0:47:20But I agree with you guys.
0:47:22I mean, the cost of switching is like the problem
0:47:25with all of these messaging apps.
0:47:27and maybe Google will solve some of these problems
0:47:30and it'll show up on the web and show up other places.
0:47:32I mean, this is clearly step one.
0:47:35But the most curious thing to me is like,
0:47:40like we talked about with the platform services thing
0:47:46with the Google Home, we're starting to see that now
0:47:50in messaging, so are we gonna live in a world
0:47:53where if I need to do something,
0:47:55I need to be in Facebook Messenger
0:47:56or you know, "Oh, I'm talking with you over here
0:47:59"and I can't look up this piece of information."
0:48:01Like, becoming increasingly fragmented
0:48:05even in something like chat apps seems problematic
0:48:09and kind of a pain to keep up with.
0:48:12But I'm not, for one, I'm not super convinced
0:48:16that I want, and not Google, I'll say this
0:48:19with Facebook as well, that I want like robots
0:48:21in my chat to go do things for me.
0:48:23Like, I've not been proven, it's not been proven to me
0:48:27that that utility is worth it yet.
0:48:29But a lot of people are betting big on this, right?
0:48:32Microsoft's doing it in Skype,
0:48:33like lots of people are doing bots,
0:48:35like that's the thing all of a sudden, so who knows?
0:48:38- I guess we can thank Slack, right?
0:48:41- Guess, I mean it seems to be where it started.
0:48:43- Yeah, along with Allo is a video calling app called Duo.
0:48:48Duo is also Android and iOS and will be
0:48:51when they both come out in the summer.
0:48:53There's a few things that Google are focusing on here.
0:48:55Performing well on bad networks is something
0:48:57that they're really trying to focus on.
0:48:59They have something called Knock Knock,
0:49:01which I think is interesting.
0:49:03So this is a feature where when the phone call,
0:49:07when the video call is coming in before you answer it,
0:49:09you see the person.
0:49:11So you can see what they're doing,
0:49:13you can see where they are.
0:49:15I think that this is kind of nice.
0:49:16And the way that they're setting up,
0:49:18and they have a cute video for it, of course,
0:49:20But the thinking for me is video calls
0:49:24are still really weird to receive.
0:49:27If I receive a video call from someone,
0:49:29I'm a little bit like,
0:49:30why are they calling me on video right now?
0:49:33Do they do this by accident?
0:49:34Like what's happening?
0:49:35If you can see someone is in a specific location,
0:49:38you can see that someone's with their child
0:49:40and they wanna say, hey,
0:49:41they show stuff like,
0:49:43there's like a girl who's showing her engagement ring.
0:49:46Like if you can kind of get a bit of context
0:49:48to why the video call is coming in. I think it takes away some of the barriers of making
0:49:53the calls because you, as a person, initiating the call as well, are able to give contacts
0:49:59before the person has to commit to showing their own face. I actually think that this
0:50:02helps break down the barrier a little bit. I think it's a really nice feature.
0:50:06I think it's very nice. I think it makes sense to kind of flip it the other way around.
0:50:12And also from a technical standpoint it seems like the implementation is solid, like you
0:50:19see the preview, then you swipe up and it's like there's no transition, it's seamless,
0:50:24going from the preview, from the live preview to the actual video calling.
0:50:28But there's just one point that I want to make, and that is with the current implementation
0:50:33of something like FaceTime, when you receive a video call, the big preview on the screen
0:50:41goes to the front camera and it shows your face, usually, before you take the video call.
0:50:48And I think Apple does that, and I think other companies do that, because it's sort of like
0:50:53looking in the mirror before taking the video call. So you can see how you look before you
0:50:58respond. Yeah, that's a good point.
0:51:00And if you don't have the preview, maybe it's just a small thing that you lose, being able
0:51:06to check your face or check where you're actually at before you commit.
0:51:11I don't remember off the top of my head, I'll see if I can try and find it, if there is
0:51:15any kind of video preview on that screen still.
0:51:18I think there's like a little round avatar.
0:51:21Yeah, that's my memory in the bottom left hand corner or something.
0:51:25My screen is small, really small.
0:51:27Yeah, but it's there, but I get your point.
0:51:32I think there's a counterpoint to all of that is my phone is on my desk and I have someone
0:51:38sitting at my desk or I'm in a meeting and my phone's out and someone wants to video
0:51:44chat with me in a way that I don't want shared.
0:51:49Then you just look over at my phone, Federico is sitting next to me and you look over and
0:51:53Myke is naked on my phone.
0:51:56But the thing is, I understand what you're saying, but...
0:51:59Does he do that?
0:52:01Maybe.
0:52:02puts someone else in charge of what shows up on my display.
0:52:05And that is a little weird.
0:52:07- Yeah, yes, I understand that.
0:52:10But I feel like in most scenarios,
0:52:14if someone's gonna call you with something
0:52:18that you wouldn't want the world to see,
0:52:20most of the time someone's gonna check with you
0:52:22before they make that call.
0:52:23- Yeah, exactly.
0:52:24Can I video call you?
0:52:25- Right, 'cause I know what you're thinking of, right?
0:52:27Like if we just say like,
0:52:32"Interesting times" we'll call it, for the time being. If someone is calling you for
0:52:37interesting times, I would assume in most scenarios somebody is going to even know not
0:52:43to call you at two o'clock in the afternoon on a work day.
0:52:45They're just going to text you beforehand.
0:52:47And will probably just clear with you in the first scenario that interesting times are
0:52:51able to occur within the current parameters of location.
0:52:54Oh yeah, no, I'm sure. But you know, it's just something to consider. And I had the
0:53:00thought and it was kind of mean so I kind of feel bad for even sharing it that like
0:53:03uh you know made people working on this like that didn't even cross their mind like
0:53:07oh it definitely there's lots of upside to it if the same company is also talking about creating
0:53:12incognito chats or discrete notifications they're thinking about interesting times yeah but uh so
0:53:17it's it's just something to consider my guess is maybe there'll be a toggle uh people don't want it
0:53:22there but uh...
0:53:25I think it is an ingenious solution
0:53:27to
0:53:29the awkward problem of video calling
0:53:32yeah there's trade-offs and this is one of them, Steven has a point
0:53:36he says I don't want other people to decide what goes up on my screen
0:53:39there should probably be a toggle you know? It would be better if you have an
0:53:43Apple
0:53:44device because it won't be able to show up on your screen you'll get a
0:53:47notification first right?
0:53:50on Android, I assume being Android there's going to be an option when I'm at the office
0:53:55change how Duo works.
0:53:57You make a joke, but yeah, probably.
0:54:01There's going to be some way to do that.
0:54:04The cross-platformness though, right?
0:54:07That's huge.
0:54:08Yeah.
0:54:09I mean, Skype exists, there's a "one begins with a V" exists, but the idea of...
0:54:16I can't remember the name, but like the idea of a...
0:54:19What did you say? One that begins with a V?
0:54:21There is a video calling service that begins with a V that I can't remember the name of.
0:54:26But there is one that exists but I can't remember it.
0:54:29Let's see, let's see Google. Video calling with a V.
0:54:33Yeah that's not gonna help you. But anyway, you know, I think something that is probably
0:54:39gonna be installed on everybody else's device that's not an Apple user, right? Like that's
0:54:44a good thing. Like it's there, all you then need to do is download it. There isn't something
0:54:47on the other end, you can't download the Android FaceTime app. Still waiting for that open
0:54:52source protocol to come that Steve promised. Do you remember?
0:54:57It's not gonna happen.
0:54:59One day man, no I'm holding on, like you know, why would you lie?
0:55:02I think it's because of a lawsuit or some kind with the parents, you know, not gonna
0:55:06happen.
0:55:07Yeah sure, I'm sure that was the reason. I, you know, we'll see what happens here. It's
0:55:13more messaging services.
0:55:17That's the problem for me when it comes to Google. They do these services, they look
0:55:21good initially, then they launch them, people don't switch, they forget about them, they
0:55:25leave them on the App Store for years and months, you know, and they don't receive updates
0:55:30and eventually the world forgets about them and they unveil a new one. That's what they've
0:55:34done in the past, you know, Google Chat, Hangouts, Google+, what's the name, Messaging, Messenger,
0:55:43you know, they've done like four or five of them at this point. I don't have a lot of
0:55:48faith and again, it's just, even setting aside Google's track record, it's just a problem
0:55:55of practicality, of convincing people. Why should I switch from WhatsApp and Facebook
0:56:00and Messenger and, you know, this other iMessage, for example? Especially when you consider
0:56:06that this year WhatsApp is going to finally monetizing their platform with some kind of
0:56:12bot system. So you can talk to hotels, you can talk to restaurants, you can talk to flight
0:56:18companies for your ticket and that kind of stuff. So it's going to be a platform war,
0:56:25but not in the sense of choosing your messaging service, in the sense of what can you do with
0:56:31other platforms inside of your messaging app. And that's going to be interesting. And again,
0:56:36I wonder if Apple is paying attention because it seems like any major messaging service
0:56:42on earth that people are actually using, lots of people are actually using, are going to
0:56:46be doing this kind of stuff.
0:56:48iMessage?
0:56:49Not so much.
0:56:50So I don't know.
0:56:51I don't want to see iMessage becoming the service that you use to receive confirmation
0:56:56codes for web services, you know?
0:56:58I don't care about iMessage going cross-platform.
0:57:02is not something that I really need or desire, because the text messages are also in the
0:57:07same application. What I do want to see is iMessage getting a lot of the stuff that you
0:57:12spoke about in your iOS 10 thing. I want to see it just become a messaging service that
0:57:18is aware that the internet exists. Because right now it's not. It's like the internet
0:57:23doesn't exist outside of the blue bubble.
0:57:26It's really glorified SMS right now. It's just fancier, just a little fancier, and free.
0:57:33That's really iMessage, the whole proposition is free and, well, you can share, I don't
0:57:39know, video and pictures, that's it. You can make groups. It's really the same iMessage
0:57:45as we saw with iOS 5 back in the Scott Forsall days. May, rest in peace. Well, it's not that,
0:57:53so...
0:57:54I think it may be Rest in Broadway, I think that's his thing now.
0:57:57He's having fun in Broadway, that's right.
0:58:00So yeah, we'll see.
0:58:02Alright, Android N. Let's breeze through some of this stuff,
0:58:06because it's stuff that we've heard before.
0:58:07They are saying that they want the world to suggest the name,
0:58:11but this seems like total BS.
0:58:13Yeah, that's not really true, it's just a marketing thing.
0:58:16Yeah, they know the name.
0:58:17There's like, I saw somebody tweet an image to the terms and conditions,
0:58:23which basically, so I'll read it, it says "This is solely intended to be for entertainment
0:58:27purposes. The name you submit will not be judged and there will be no prizes or compensation
0:58:32awarded to any participant." So, okay.
0:58:35Yeah. I mean, the name should be, and I'm gonna say it with the Italian version, Android
0:58:42Nutella.
0:58:43Yeah, I think that's probably where they're gonna end up going.
0:58:46Do you guys say Nutella or Nutella? What do you say?
0:58:49Nutella.
0:58:50Nutella, okay.
0:58:51that might be what they end up doing. Maybe they are struggling to get the licensing arrangement.
0:58:58Yeah. That's why they now have this thing. Yeah. I thought initially that they might
0:59:04be looking to break outside of the candy names, hence the suggestions. You know, I like something
0:59:10like Android Nebula, you know, just sounds cool. Nebula, wow. But I assume that they're
0:59:15still going to go down the candy route and then it's probably just going to end up being
0:59:18Maybe what they're trying to do is prove to the Nutella people, I think it's Nestle again,
0:59:23that so many people want them to call it Nutella, right?
0:59:26So they're like, "Look, we have millions of people that said Nutella!"
0:59:28Or maybe they can play the card of, "Look at all these great names we can choose, in theory,
0:59:34but we really want to make you guys a favor and we want to use Nutella."
0:59:38Yeah, do us a favor.
0:59:40Android had some significant performance updates.
0:59:43They have graphical improvements via something called Vulkan which seems a lot like Metal
0:59:49on the face of it from my understanding.
0:59:51You know like digging more into the GPU and harnessing that power.
0:59:55Stronger security, file based and full disk encryption.
0:59:59They talked about something called seamless updates which to me seems kind of genius.
1:00:03They've borrowed this from Chromebooks.
1:00:05Basically all installations of Android N have two installs on the device and updates are
1:00:12downloaded and installed automatically on the not in use version of the
1:00:15operating system and then the next time that you turn your phone on they switch
1:00:20around so then you have the updated version. This just seems genius right?
1:00:25So basically they're saying that Android devices now will stay up to
1:00:29date automatically which I think that that is a really smart system that it
1:00:34just happens in the background on a mirrored version of the OS and then they
1:00:37just swap around. Yeah I think if Apple is gonna do that people are gonna find
1:00:41all kinds of ways to use it for jet breaking.
1:00:45- Yeah, probably.
1:00:46But I mean, talking about updates,
1:00:47I'm terrified to update my iPad right now, right?
1:00:50There's all these stories of 9.3.2
1:00:53breaking the 9.7 inch iPad.
1:00:54- Yeah, I saw that, I saw that.
1:00:56- So like, you know, I don't know.
1:00:59- Should probably wait for now.
1:01:02- Yeah, I'm just dismissing the update prompt.
1:01:11It's just like, no, go away.
1:01:12I'll put a link to a Forbes article.
1:01:14But by the way, no, I'm not going to put a link
1:01:16to a Forbes article because Forbes has the worst website
1:01:18on the entire planet.
1:01:19I will find somebody else.
1:01:22- Look at you taking a stand.
1:01:23Good for you, Myke. - Man, it's so bad.
1:01:24If you ever visited the Forbes website on a mobile device.
1:01:28- Yes, unfortunately, yes.
1:01:30- It's like, who cares about layout?
1:01:32- Oh, and you know that they used to,
1:01:34some researchers found out that they used the,
1:01:37you know the inspirational quote that they show you
1:01:39before loading an article, some people, or maybe some companies behind the ad, use that
1:01:45screen to inject malware in people's browsers.
1:01:48Yeah, of course they do. Of course they do, thanks Forbes.
1:01:51Funny times at Forbes.
1:01:52Anyhow, so I think that's really cool. They have some productivity enhancements, so I
1:01:58quite like this one. They remove infrequently used apps from the multitasking tray automatically,
1:02:03so you don't have like an infinite list.
1:02:05See, I have many thoughts about that.
1:02:08Because people, both on Android and iOS, people do that.
1:02:12Keep doing that all the time.
1:02:13All my friends close all of their apps, you know?
1:02:16Well, I mean, the idea is, like, I was multitasking earlier, and I have, like, 60 items in there,
1:02:22which don't need to be there.
1:02:23I only need, like, 10.
1:02:24Right?
1:02:25So that's one thing that they're doing.
1:02:26So they're just automatically clearing things that you don't use.
1:02:29They do have a clear all button, which upsets me, and I know upsets them to put in there,
1:02:34but they said like due to popular demand. It's like people ask us for this button so
1:02:38we just put the button in.
1:02:39If you close these apps on Android, do they also stop execution of tasks in the background?
1:02:45Or is it just, okay, so it's just a visibility thing?
1:02:49Yeah, it's getting rid of the multitasking tray.
1:02:51When you do that on iOS, you also stop the background refresh, I think, which is, you
1:02:56know, the problem that people say you shouldn't force quit your apps on iOS, and you shouldn't,
1:03:01you know, every time close the app. But I do get why it's important to have that feature,
1:03:06because so many times, you know, apps have bugs, and the only way to get them to work
1:03:10again is to force quit them and start them up again. And so I don't think Apple will
1:03:17ever remove the ability to force quit apps, and I see people say, you know, Apple should
1:03:21just disable people from doing that. And that's never gonna happen, you know? Never, ever
1:03:26gonna happen, because people need to be able to force quit software.
1:03:29I like the idea of having that tray cleared up a little bit.
1:03:33Yeah, I see that, it makes sense. Maybe it's time to, you know,
1:03:38just make it a visibility thing on iOS also,
1:03:41and not necessarily tied to background stuff.
1:03:44It's a tricky problem to solve, I don't know.
1:03:47Double tapping the multitasking button will switch you to the previously used application.
1:03:52I like that. So you'll be in Chrome, you open Messages, then you just double tap the multitasking button,
1:03:57you're back in Chrome again.
1:03:58This is nicer than covering the status bar.
1:04:01- Yeah, it's like a physical command tab.
1:04:03- Yeah. - I think they said, yeah.
1:04:04- Yeah, they did.
1:04:05They're bringing split screen and picture in picture,
1:04:08which is great. - Of course.
1:04:10- They are the first to support the 72 new emoji
1:04:14in Unicode 9. - Yeah.
1:04:16Well, we're gonna see that in iOS 10 or 10.1.
1:04:18- Yeah, they just wanted to say we're first.
1:04:19And it's in the base that it's out now,
1:04:21so technically they are first,
1:04:22and there are some great ones in there.
1:04:25I was sending them in our Slack today
1:04:26that nobody could see,
1:04:27because I have my Android device, like avocado, bacon,
1:04:31whiskey in a jar, they have a shrugging person.
1:04:33That's some great emoji in there.
1:04:34- Oh, shrugging person?
1:04:35- Yes, shrugging person.
1:04:36- That's gonna be the best one this year.
1:04:38- You use it all day, every day.
1:04:40They have improved notifications with quick replies
1:04:42and easy access to settings, which are quite like,
1:04:44you can hold on the notifications,
1:04:45say stop telling me about this application for a while.
1:04:48It's kind of cool. - Oh, nice.
1:04:49Nice, there should be a 3D touch feature on Android.
1:04:51- I agree completely.
1:04:52Well, there should be a 3D touch to clear all notifications,
1:04:54but hey, huh.
1:04:56One of the other big pillars of Android M,
1:04:58which was not previously announced, is virtual reality.
1:05:01So Google are building something called Daydream.
1:05:04It's like the next kind of evolution
1:05:06from the Cardboard initiative.
1:05:10Basically Daydream is multiple things.
1:05:13It is baked in support for VR into Android.
1:05:17So they're putting it into the operating system.
1:05:20They are going to be,
1:05:21and they have created a reference design
1:05:23for a headset and controller to be used.
1:05:25and they're also releasing tools to developers to build great VR applications.
1:05:30They said that several phones are daydream ready for later on this year.
1:05:34They've been talking to manufacturers, and there are also a bunch of manufacturers
1:05:37creating headsets and controllers that will be available in the fall as well.
1:05:42We didn't really see the headsets.
1:05:46Yeah, they don't have one, that's why.
1:05:47Just like a blueprint of a sketch.
1:05:50They haven't built one.
1:05:51They probably will have a Nexus version, but they're just not ready to show it yet.
1:05:55We've talked on our other show, Myke, "Remaster", about VR and how I believe that eventually
1:06:01all VR is going to be mobile. And I think this shows that Google is also thinking this
1:06:06way that the screen of the phone that you use every day, so in the future, this is the
1:06:11idea, in the future the computer is going to be the phone. So from people in the 80s,
1:06:16people in the 90s, the computer was the thing at the desk, people from, you know, 20 years
1:06:21from now the computer is going to be a phone. And the phone, it can be the device that you
1:06:25carry around and that you look at, and it's also the device for virtual reality. That's
1:06:30the idea.
1:06:31But when you think about it, right, it's way easier to say to somebody, "Buy this headset
1:06:36and controller for $50 or whatever," than, "Make sure you have a computer that can run
1:06:42this or a PlayStation and then spend over $400 or $700 on the headset." This is why
1:06:48mobile VR is probably gonna win out this initial run?
1:06:53There's two problems. One is probably temporary, which is can current phones be capable of
1:07:01handling powerful, credible VR experience?
1:07:05The answer is no, because they're saying all the Daydream phones are coming later this
1:07:08year, right? They can't right now.
1:07:10So that's only getting started. And the second, which is a bigger problem, still don't know
1:07:14the answer, because we're really just getting started with VR. We've been talking about
1:07:19VR since like four years, since the Oculus Kickstarter campaign, but we're really starting
1:07:24to get VR today in practice. The biggest problem, which we still don't know the answer for,
1:07:30is "Is VR socially acceptable? Is it going to be a thing? Or is it going to be a fad
1:07:36and we're going to forget about it?" I mean, it's possible, it's cool today, but it's like
1:07:41If somebody came up with the idea of a crazy technology, like a flying car, and it's totally
1:07:50cool, it's possible, but you're gonna look like a dork, or there's a risk of dying.
1:07:56Just because it's possible doesn't mean that it's gonna take off.
1:07:59That's my idea.
1:08:01VR is possible, maybe it's great today, are we sure it's gonna take off?
1:08:07It's gonna be accepted by people and it's gonna be normal in the future?
1:08:10We still don't know.
1:08:11No idea.
1:08:12Will we get over the social awkwardness of a screen on our face?
1:08:16We don't know yet.
1:08:17But all I know is the very limited experience I have with VR is I want it all in my life.
1:08:22Like I want it.
1:08:23Because it's amazing.
1:08:26I still don't know.
1:08:27See, you tried the Oculus, I still haven't.
1:08:29I'm looking forward to having, I hope, the PlayStation VR demo units at the GameStop here
1:08:36in Rome, maybe sometime in the next few months.
1:08:39That's what I'm hoping to get. Or maybe when I'm in San Francisco, someone, so this is
1:08:46an open call to our listeners, friends of the show, if you happen to have an Oculus
1:08:51Rift in San Francisco during the week of WWDC, please let me try one.
1:08:55Oh, there'll be tons of companies that have them. So yeah, if you have one in an office
1:08:59that's close to Moscone or something like that, send us an email or get in contact with
1:09:05Federico. We want to come and see it.
1:09:07Federico wants to try one. Thank you, I would really appreciate that. And again, we can
1:09:12exchange, we can trade. You let me try the Oculus and I buy you coffee.
1:09:17Yeah, someone's gonna, they're gonna be there, so we just need to find the place.
1:09:21Okay, awesome.
1:09:23Android Wear 2.0 was the next part. So, something I didn't know, but there was a limitation
1:09:30between what custom watch faces and custom complications could be paired together. That's
1:09:34now been taken away all custom watch faces can show custom complications
1:09:37that's great it's weird that it couldn't do that but you know what I wish I could
1:09:41get custom watch faces so like you know swings and roundabouts you can one thing
1:09:48that I really like you can get a message and you can draw with your finger a
1:09:51response I know it's kind of ridiculous but sometimes I don't really get it
1:09:55sometimes you could be out in the street and you don't want to talk into your
1:09:59watch but if I can just say if I can just draw and say what I want to say
1:10:03because a lot of the time the smart quick replies aren't necessarily going to answer the question
1:10:09that is being asked of me. There are some times where I would get a slack message when someone
1:10:15says "oh are you going to be around today what time" and I could just say "I'll be"
1:10:20or just say 4 p.m. I would like to be able to do that. I know it's kind of ridiculous but...
1:10:26Shouldn't you just use your phone at that point?
1:10:28Sure but what if I don't want to, right? Like the whole point of me having...
1:10:33But the whole point of me having this watch is to use the watch.
1:10:37What's the point of me seeing something and then going to get my phone out?
1:10:39I might as well just never had the watch in the first place.
1:10:42I mean, between the ridiculous keyboard that they showed and handwriting recognition, and,
1:10:48you know...
1:10:49The keyboard is insane.
1:10:50No, it doesn't really make sense.
1:10:52I can't understand how the keyboard can work.
1:10:54I just cannot understand that.
1:10:55But the handwriting recognition, great.
1:10:57Let's go for it.
1:10:58Yeah, I mean, between the two, handwriting all the way.
1:11:00And I think maybe if you accept that, even the way that the screen kind of moves horizontally
1:11:06to follow handwriting and to transcribe what you're drawing, I think it's also kind of
1:11:12cute.
1:11:13I just, maybe I don't see the appeal, but once you explain that, and I kind of get it,
1:11:18maybe.
1:11:19But I feel like for me, the Wear 2 was the weakest announcement of the show.
1:11:26I think there's just less there.
1:11:27I mean, but it did have a couple of things that I would like the Apple Watch to do.
1:11:31So the keyboard entry, they said about the ability for Android Wear devices to automatically
1:11:36start tracking fitness stuff.
1:11:38I would like the Apple Watch to be able to do that.
1:11:40Like the Apple Watch doesn't know I'm exercising until I tell it.
1:11:44See that's one of my problems with the Apple Watch because I remember that a couple of
1:11:50years ago Apple bought this company that they had this technology with a wearable device
1:11:57to automatically detect what type of workout you were doing. And I had big hopes for the
1:12:04Apple Watch to have this feature, which is you don't have to go to the workout app and
1:12:08to say "look I'm about to do running" or "I'm about to do whatever it is people do at the
1:12:15gym", it's just the watch recognizes what you're doing. And I really wanted to have
1:12:20that. And maybe in the future, but you know, automatic workout recognition, that's, you
1:12:25know, I think it's a really great feature for a wearable device. Because it's just natural,
1:12:30you know, it's like having a personal trainer with you that says, "Look, I see you're doing
1:12:36that, good job." Instead, it's a wearable device that you have on your wrist and it
1:12:40tells you, you know, you don't have to open an app and say what you're about to do, I
1:12:45can just keep track of that automatically. I think that's really smart. I think that
1:12:48should happen with the Watch 2 in the future.
1:12:53There's also a lot of stuff about decoupling the Watch, so apps on Android Wear 2.0, see
1:12:58I think this was big but it didn't spend enough time on it. The apps can be standalone, they
1:13:03can run on a device, they're able to connect to Wi-Fi, Bluetooth and cellular where it's
1:13:06supported on their own and do their own stuff. That's what we all want with WatchOS and Android
1:13:15where 2 has got it. Maybe we're gonna get it in watchOS 3, I think we will, but I think
1:13:20that they just, they basically just ran through this section. And if they, and I expect there's
1:13:25actually a lot more interesting stuff in there than they gave away. Because they had something
1:13:29pretty big and weird to get to. Yeah, I mean the watch was fast and I'm sure we'll spend
1:13:36more time talking about it leading up to June, but for me, like, part of the idea of having
1:13:42the watch is like something simple like if I'm out mowing the yard I can leave my phone
1:13:46inside and still you know get text messages and respond and do that sort of stuff and
1:13:51it just doesn't it just doesn't work and so I think there's a lot of opportunity for Apple
1:13:56to to look at what this is doing and maybe improve on in some areas I agree that the
1:14:02keyboard text thing is a little weird but across the board I would like to be able to
1:14:06text like type to my devices like ask Siri a question by typing like I think Apple has
1:14:10a lot of work to do there but I think maybe we're finally seeing like smart
1:14:15watches kind of finally become their own thing as opposed to just a satellite
1:14:20device and that that's pretty exciting to me.
1:14:23The last thing Google announced was Android Instant Apps. This is a big one.
1:14:31This is very strange. It is basically the next evolution of deep linking because
1:14:38what it's doing is deep linking but maybe to an app that you don't have
1:14:43installed. So you'll get a link to something like they used like a B&H
1:14:49photo and somebody sent them a link to the store or they was in a Google search
1:14:56and they clicked it instead of it going to be an B&H's website it took them to
1:15:01the application so the Google Play Store jumps into the middle and just downloads
1:15:07the piece of the application that you need right at that second. Basically Google is
1:15:12saying goodbye to the web.
1:15:14>> Yes.
1:15:15>> Developers need to modularize their applications, but they say that it's not a ton of work.
1:15:21They said it's a day of work. And it said, depending on how complex your app is, okay?
1:15:26So it's seven months of work. You can then, when you're in the application, they also
1:15:30show like Buzzfeed videos. Somebody sent them a Buzzfeed link. They opened it. It opened
1:15:34in the Buzzfeed video app, and then there was an install button, so you could then install
1:15:38the application if you wanted to. And the way that they described it was your app would
1:15:43be just a tap away on a billion devices, which is a very tasty proposition. I actually think,
1:15:54looking at this, and looking at deep linking on iOS, I see the potential for Apple to do
1:16:00this as well. Why would they not do this?
1:16:03I feel like there's a fundamental fork in the road, maybe, for links and the web on
1:16:12mobile devices.
1:16:14Because we're at the point where the functionality of native apps and the integration with the
1:16:19hardware is so ahead of what is possible to do with a mobile web app.
1:16:26So we're talking about integration with payment systems.
1:16:29NFC on Android, native assistance.
1:16:33I said about NFC, something that was really cool, is like instead of downloading like
1:16:37a parking meter application, you just hold it up to the parking meter and it just downloads
1:16:42the necessary parts for that specific parking meter and just plays it.
1:16:47Like that was cool.
1:16:48Yeah, so we're at the point where native apps have all of this functionality that is completely
1:16:55or mostly cut off from the mobile web, which also happens to be slow and to, quite frankly,
1:17:02suck these days.
1:17:04So the idea here is we're using the web and we're using links as the backbone for identification
1:17:14of content, but we're actually redirecting users to the superior native app experience.
1:17:22And how do we make that better? By splitting up apps in different portions, and you let
1:17:32the OS take care of the content that you need to see, and in just maybe a couple of seconds,
1:17:38instead of having to wait for a web page and having fewer functionalities than a native
1:17:43app, you're shown just that bit of a native app that you need to see to engage and interact
1:17:50with content. And I feel like it's the next logical step for any kind of deep linking,
1:17:57which is you remove the overhead of users having to go to the app store, download the
1:18:04app, and then open the app, maybe sign up, and then eventually get to the content. Instead,
1:18:10you use the link and you use the deep link to bring up an instant app, a native app,
1:18:17as all of the features that you expect, so native sharing, maybe assistant integration,
1:18:23payment integration, so you don't have to insert all of your details again.
1:18:29And at that point, it becomes clear that there's going to be maybe a future where HTML and
1:18:37JS on the web are just fallback options, and they're mostly used to provide hierarchy,
1:18:45provide directions, but all of the content that we're looking for is native code, and
1:18:52it's native app content. I don't know how I feel about this, especially because I write
1:18:57on a website. Maybe that's going to be okay, but it's just we're at the point where the
1:19:07native apps have so many more integrations than mobile websites, so many more native
1:19:12features that people expect, that it just seems obvious to me, and looking at what Apple
1:19:18is doing with universal linking, on-demand resources on the Apple TV, which is the idea
1:19:23of splitting up apps in bits and pieces and TVOS can get those pieces on demand.
1:19:30It's not too crazy to think that eventually, maybe not iOS 10, maybe iOS 11, you use universal
1:19:37linking and on-demand resources, maybe the next evolution of that technology, to have
1:19:42something like Instant Apps on iOS as well.
1:19:45I think both companies are approaching the same problem from two different perspectives,
1:19:51but the end goal, I feel like it's the same.
1:19:55One thing that I'm struggling with with this is the data required to download the section
1:20:00of the application would surely be larger than the data required to access the website?
1:20:07Well, it depends, right? There are some websites that can ask you for over 10 megabytes of
1:20:12data or maybe, you know, 12, 15 I've seen also. So it's a problem that kind of mirrors
1:20:18the current state of the web. It's so slow and so confusing and it doesn't have all of
1:20:25the features of native apps, I do understand why Google is doing this. I mean, even if
1:20:31you look, you should have seen this coming, right? Because Google has been thinking about
1:20:35this deep linking problem for longer than Apple. They've done in the past, you know,
1:20:41that feature where you look up something on Google search like a recipe and you're given
1:20:46a Google Play result and you click that and in a bunch of steps you're taken to a newly
1:20:53installed app and into that content. That is sort of the ancestor of Instant Apps on
1:20:59Android. But I feel like Apple has all of the sudden list to get all of the pieces of
1:21:05the same puzzle together. Because there's just an advantage of tapping a link and being
1:21:12taken into a native app instead of a website. For as great as Safari is on iOS, I buy the
1:21:20argument that sometimes universal links can be annoying because you actually want to be
1:21:25in the browser, but in most cases I do like the fact that I tap on a link to a tweet and
1:21:30I'm taken into the Twitter app, or I tap a link to Spotify and I'm taken into the Spotify
1:21:35app instead of the web preview. I do like that. And maybe there should be a way to make
1:21:39it easier for people to be shown this content. Honestly, if done well, with respect to bandwidth,
1:21:49to data, to letting people choose what they want to do, letting developers choose what
1:21:56they want to do, I don't see any disadvantages. If only setting aside the philosophical problem
1:22:02maybe that weblinks should always go to a website, but I feel like we're past that stage
1:22:09and the ship has sailed metaphorically.
1:22:13I don't get that argument, like weblinks should go to a website. Like weblinks should go to
1:22:18wherever the owner of that web link wants it to go. That's the way I look at it, right?
1:22:23Like if Twitter decides they want it to go to their app, great. If they don't, they just
1:22:27don't implement it. They own the website.
1:22:30Yes.
1:22:31Steven, do you disagree with that? I feel like if anyone's going to disagree with that,
1:22:35it might be easier.
1:22:36Yes.
1:22:37I do disagree with that to a degree. I think that there should be some type of user control
1:22:43there that I can you know choose to some degree what I want to happen when I tap
1:22:52on a link because the worst thing we've all done this is you tap on link because
1:22:56you need it to be in one place or the other and it does like the wrong thing
1:23:00and on iOS there's no recourse for that like I guess I can uninstall the Twitter
1:23:04app so it stops doing it but I think that there should be some sort of some
1:23:09sort of options built around that and I think that if if this is where we're
1:23:15headed and definitely seems that that's the case to a degree that there should
1:23:19be some sort of expectation set around what developers should do with that and
1:23:26how they should be handled and you know a lot of times you see like universal
1:23:31links these deep links like acting in unexpected ways sometimes and of course
1:23:35you know the big one is people will throw one up to like launch the App
1:23:39store is like part of spam type stuff and like that there should be some
1:23:44preventative measures there to keep it from being abused but I mean I like
1:23:50the open web I don't know particularly in love with the philosophical argument
1:23:54that we should all be moved into silo apps but I cannot argue with your point
1:23:58that it is markedly a better experience especially when it comes to payment
1:24:02right like those examples they used for the most part were around payment where
1:24:06I feel like if I can be in an app and use Apple Pay, then that is inherently more secure
1:24:13than giving a website my credit card number.
1:24:19And I don't think Apple's going to open Apple Pay to the web in a way that would be useful.
1:24:24So there are trade-offs there, but I would hope for some sort of middle ground as far
1:24:29as expectations and control.
1:24:33So guys, you know, I've been thinking about the Google I/O announcements, right? We've
1:24:38seen there's lots of interesting stuff happening. And I mean, we're all Google users to a degree.
1:24:45We're using Google Apps, we're using Google services. And I've been thinking, you know,
1:24:50I do love the IOS ecosystem and I do love the App Store. And I feel like there's nothing
1:24:55like the IOS App Store. But I feel like I should be, I was thinking like I should be
1:25:00more knowledgeable about technology in general. Like, I've been writing for seven years about
1:25:06Apple, but I'm interested in technology in general, and I do have lots of other devices
1:25:11not made by Apple. So I was thinking last night, like, there's especially, you know,
1:25:18ahead of my iOS 10 review this year, like, I was thinking I should do more to know more
1:25:27about what's going on outside of the Apple ecosystem.
1:25:30And so I've done something last night, and I bought an Android phone.
1:25:38(dramatic music)
1:25:41you