Connected

00:00:00 ◼   ► [Music]

00:00:06 ◼   ► From Real AFM this is Connected, episode number 83. Today's show is brought to you

00:00:12 ◼   ► by member four Igloo and Squarespace. My name is Myke Hurley. I am joined by Mr Stephen Hackett of

00:00:18 ◼   ► 512 pixels. Hello Stephen Hackett. Hello Michael Hurley. And also by Mr Federico Vittici of Mac

00:00:25 ◼   ► Hi Federico. Well hey, thank you for telling the name of my website.

00:00:30 ◼   ► I'm Myke Hurley of michaelsright.com. Is that your brand? It's my personal brand, we know that by now.

00:00:37 ◼   ► I reckon we're gonna be a bit punchy today. We haven't recorded in the evening in a very long time

00:00:43 ◼   ► and we're recording in the evening tonight, so you've got that to contend with.

00:00:48 ◼   ► I miss the evening recordings. I do not miss them.

00:00:53 ◼   ► either but it's a it's it's a bit more romantic I guess it is it is I remember

00:00:58 ◼   ► back in the days of the prompt where I would be awake until 2 a.m. editing then

00:01:07 ◼   ► waking up at 7 to go to work the next day is there a podcast yeah I had to not

00:01:12 ◼   ► not anymore because I had to wait for Federico's file oh yeah and we used to

00:01:20 ◼   ► have so many problems just in general then.

00:01:23 ◼   ► And the freaking sound effects,

00:01:27 ◼   ► which always added more time than I wanted.

00:01:30 ◼   ► Those are the days.

00:01:32 ◼   ► We run a much tighter ship now, which is nice.

00:01:35 ◼   ► - There was no 4G, you know?

00:01:37 ◼   ► - Nope. - No 4G.

00:01:39 ◼   ► I used to say sentences with gaps in them

00:01:41 ◼   ► for you to drop the sound effect in.

00:01:44 ◼   ► - That's true.

00:01:45 ◼   ► - Over time, we perfected the gap

00:01:47 ◼   ► to the right time with the sound effect, but.

00:01:48 ◼   ► Yeah, really good at it.

00:01:51 ◼   ► So now it's time for follow-up.

00:01:52 ◼   ► Well, I want to do a piece of follow-out first.

00:01:57 ◼   ► In case people haven't heard this, you should hear this.

00:02:00 ◼   ► Episode number six of remaster went out last week, and we were very lucky to get an exclusive

00:02:08 ◼   ► interview with Shuhei Yoshida, who is the president of Worldwatch Studios' PlayStation.

00:02:15 ◼   ► This guy is like instrumental in the Playstation, like the PS4 and the PSVR, the new VR headset.

00:02:23 ◼   ► And Shahid went out to San Francisco and on his trip he got a 15 minute interview with

00:02:29 ◼   ► Yoshida-san, which is part of the episode, including me and Federico talking about the

00:02:35 ◼   ► Playstation VR.

00:02:36 ◼   ► So there's a lot of really interesting stuff in there, I think you should go and listen

00:02:39 ◼   ► to it.

00:02:40 ◼   ► It's at relay.fm/remaster/6.

00:02:41 ◼   ► If you enjoy the show share it with your friends, subscribe, it's fun, we enjoy it and we put

00:02:48 ◼   ► a lot of love and care into it so I think that listeners of this show would like that

00:02:51 ◼   ► very much.

00:02:52 ◼   ► It's a really cool interview.

00:02:54 ◼   ► Yeah, we were very lucky.

00:02:56 ◼   ► And then in a very important piece of follow up that I received just before the show, if

00:03:01 ◼   ► you remember back way into the history of when Workflow came out, I created or adapted

00:03:08 ◼   ► a workflow to send thousands of emoji at a time.

00:03:12 ◼   ► Do you remember this?

00:03:13 ◼   ► Yes!

00:03:14 ◼   ► I will find that workflow and put that in the show notes,

00:03:17 ◼   ► but a guy called Matthew sent me a tweet to tell me,

00:03:21 ◼   ► because I brought it up on Analog last week,

00:03:23 ◼   ► he used that technique to send 10,000 pig emojis to a friend,

00:03:27 ◼   ► and messages crashed every time that he tried to open it.

00:03:32 ◼   ► I had this and I just rebooted my phone and it was fine.

00:03:35 ◼   ► That wouldn't work for him. He had to restore his phone.

00:03:37 ◼   ► Wow. So I will put this workflow in the show notes, but I would suggest that you use it

00:03:44 ◼   ► at your own peril. If you do too many of them, things can go crazy.

00:03:48 ◼   ► Yeah, please don't try this at home. Well, you know.

00:03:53 ◼   ► Be careful. We're emoji professionals, so we're fine.

00:03:57 ◼   ► We can try it at home, but you should, everybody else should be careful.

00:04:02 ◼   ► So we're going to talk a little bit today about the Mac topic from last week, the idea

00:04:09 ◼   ► of some things that Apple could do to make the Mac potentially more attractive to third-party

00:04:14 ◼   ► developers.

00:04:15 ◼   ► And in that conversation we spoke about UIKit, and I had totally forgotten about and neglected

00:04:20 ◼   ► to bring up UXKit.

00:04:22 ◼   ► So we have a couple links in the show notes, one Macworld piece about why smaller iOS developers

00:04:30 ◼   ► maybe smart to look at the Mac and then

00:04:31 ◼   ► one of six colors and one to any essential

00:04:34 ◼   ► dot-com about about this topic about UX

00:04:37 ◼   ► kit specifically which is part of photos

00:04:42 ◼   ► dot app which shipped I guess what like a

00:04:43 ◼   ► year and a half two years ago now and if

00:04:46 ◼   ► you look at photos app it looks and kind

00:04:48 ◼   ► of feels like an iOS app in a lot of

00:04:49 ◼   ► ways and the reason for that is Apple

00:04:51 ◼   ► reimplemented a portion of UI kit to run

00:04:54 ◼   ► on the Mac and it's called UX kit and as

00:04:57 ◼   ► far as I know as far as I could find

00:04:59 ◼   ► Photos is really the only place that we've seen this and it has not been made

00:05:03 ◼   ► public to developers to use at this point as it been really expanded upon by

00:05:08 ◼   ► Apple but it does show that this sort of work at Apple at least has been underway

00:05:13 ◼   ► to a degree to get photos done and I think it's an interesting way of looking

00:05:19 ◼   ► at it that importing UIKit directly doesn't really work right because it's

00:05:24 ◼   ► touch driven and there's a lot of elements there that just don't make

00:05:27 ◼   ► sense if you're dealing with a cursor, because even if you're on something like the Magic

00:05:31 ◼   ► Trackpad, you're still not touching things directly, right? It's abstracted away through

00:05:37 ◼   ► the cursor. But you know, Photos.app feels like a Mac app, it feels like an iOS app too,

00:05:42 ◼   ► it's very sort of this strange hybrid. And so you should go check out those links, it's

00:05:46 ◼   ► an interesting piece of technology and one that maybe Apple will expand upon at some

00:05:50 ◼   ► point in the future.

00:05:53 ◼   ► So I don't fully understand a lot of this stuff, but so is this basically like

00:05:59 ◼   ► somewhere in the middle between Mac development and iOS development then?

00:06:03 ◼   ► Is that what this is kind of about?

00:06:06 ◼   ► Well I think some of it's a little unknown because UXKit is not really available for developers to use, right?

00:06:13 ◼   ► You can only kind of see how it's used in photos.

00:06:16 ◼   ► And so I think there's a lot of question as to like how much time and effort this could shave off

00:06:22 ◼   ► for porting an iOS app, but it's definitely further along than going from UIKit to AppKit

00:06:28 ◼   ► that's on the Mac now.

00:06:30 ◼   ► So basically an iOS developer could look at this and maybe have a better understanding

00:06:35 ◼   ► of how to use it because of the tools that they put into play on iOS?

00:06:40 ◼   ► Yeah, potentially.

00:06:42 ◼   ► So I think at this point it's all about the potential of it.

00:06:44 ◼   ► Alright, cool.

00:06:45 ◼   ► I wanted a piece of follow-up.

00:06:47 ◼   ► talking about Ulysses quite a bit last week and Federico kept sharing his

00:06:54 ◼   ► beautiful setup and this prompted a tweet from CGP Grey which prompted a

00:07:00 ◼   ► tweet from the Ulysses app people to say that Dropbox support is coming to a

00:07:05 ◼   ► soon update so I mean I don't know anything about this but it does more

00:07:11 ◼   ► than that but it looks like maybe that Dropbox sync will be coming back to

00:07:15 ◼   ► Ulysses or coming to Ulysses? Yeah, I don't know at this point because I don't

00:07:21 ◼   ► have a beta or anything so I'm based on this tweet but it sounds like there's

00:07:25 ◼   ► going to be direct support for Dropbox which is good news you know especially

00:07:30 ◼   ► because you can then go to Dropbox.com see the text files see versions you know

00:07:35 ◼   ► which iCloud doesn't show you. And also you have the peace of mind you know for

00:07:39 ◼   ► big things like this if I was you I would want to go with a

00:07:44 ◼   ► thing that I've used and known and trusted for many, many years.

00:07:47 ◼   ► And whilst iCloud seems better, I mean, I know as a Notes user, um,

00:07:52 ◼   ► iCloud is fantastic. Like the way that my favorite thing about Notes Sync

00:07:57 ◼   ► is that I may have added something from an extension.

00:08:00 ◼   ► I open up that note, start typing,

00:08:03 ◼   ► and then the link that I've added pops in above the text. Yeah.

00:08:08 ◼   ► I think that that is like, you nailed it, right? It needed to sync,

00:08:14 ◼   ► but you know where it's supposed to go.

00:08:16 ◼   ► That for me just feels like you nailed it.

00:08:19 ◼   ► So this stuff may be better, I don't know the ins and outs of how you would build an app like Ulysses on this stuff.

00:08:24 ◼   ► But, nevertheless, for a multiple thousand, ten thousand word article, Dropbox has never failed you.

00:08:32 ◼   ► No, never. And it gives you...

00:08:34 ◼   ► So you'd want to use that?

00:08:35 ◼   ► Yeah, especially because Ulysses uses that type of iCloud sync that you cannot manage in a web browser.

00:08:43 ◼   ► You know, it's not like when you go to icloud.com and you see a bunch of text files from, or

00:08:49 ◼   ► files in general, from iCloud Drive.

00:08:51 ◼   ► >> And BioWare does it like that.

00:08:53 ◼   ► >> Yeah.

00:08:54 ◼   ► Ulysses doesn't do that type of iCloud implementation.

00:08:57 ◼   ► So the iCloud that you see in Ulysses only propagates across the apps.

00:09:02 ◼   ► You cannot go on a web browser and see all your documents.

00:09:06 ◼   ► You can only go to your iPhone or the iPad or the Mac.

00:09:09 ◼   ► So it's only inside the app.

00:09:11 ◼   ► And using Dropbox or similar services gives you the sense of safety that you can go anytime,

00:09:21 ◼   ► anywhere on a web browser, you can view the file, you can restore, you can view versions,

00:09:26 ◼   ► which is what you want.

00:09:28 ◼   ► When you're working on a big project that's taking you months to put together, that's

00:09:32 ◼   ► what you want to be able to do.

00:09:35 ◼   ► So we'll see.

00:09:36 ◼   ► I'm really happy that they're doing it.

00:09:38 ◼   ► I've been using Ulysses for the past week again.

00:09:42 ◼   ► I know that people are waiting for some sort of follow-up.

00:09:46 ◼   ► I'm liking it a lot.

00:09:47 ◼   ► iCloud Sync has been terrific so far.

00:09:51 ◼   ► I don't know if I told you, Myke, but I'm using the dark theme a lot more.

00:09:57 ◼   ► To my surprise, because I've never been a huge dark theme user, I know that you love

00:10:01 ◼   ► dark themes.

00:10:02 ◼   ► I'm all about dark themes.

00:10:03 ◼   ► Yeah, I haven't been a dark theme person myself in any app really so far.

00:10:09 ◼   ► But I'm using it in Ulysses, I do love the contrast between the black background, the yellow font, red section names.

00:10:18 ◼   ► It's really nice.

00:10:19 ◼   ► Can you share the themes?

00:10:21 ◼   ► I think so.

00:10:22 ◼   ► I think so.

00:10:23 ◼   ► I haven't yet.

00:10:25 ◼   ► But I am like, every day I go to the App Store and look at the Ulysses app and then close it again.

00:10:32 ◼   ► I mean, I just look so pretty.

00:10:36 ◼   ► Yeah, I can share my theme, I think.

00:10:38 ◼   ► I'll take a look at how it's done.

00:10:41 ◼   ► I'm liking the toolbar a lot.

00:10:43 ◼   ► You know where it's got all the menus with the shortcuts

00:10:46 ◼   ► to insert links and footnotes to make text italic or bold?

00:10:52 ◼   ► I'm getting used to the layout because I'm new to the app.

00:10:56 ◼   ► It's only two weeks after years and years of other text

00:10:59 ◼   ► editors.

00:11:00 ◼   ► So I'm still getting used to it.

00:11:01 ◼   ► I do like a lot the organization that I set up, so I have two different groups.

00:11:07 ◼   ► One is called Maxories, the other is called Club.

00:11:10 ◼   ► So I can organize the different content that I write for the website and for the newsletters.

00:11:17 ◼   ► And then I'm also starting to use the keywords, so I have a finalized keyword that I apply

00:11:23 ◼   ► to sheets or documents when they are complete for the newsletter.

00:11:30 ◼   ► So when I open the club group in Ulysses I can just take a look and see what's been finalized,

00:11:37 ◼   ► what's ready to go.

00:11:39 ◼   ► That's nice, you know, it's very different, I continue to believe that it's very different

00:11:43 ◼   ► from what I used to write in before, and I'm getting used to the whole idea of sheets can

00:11:51 ◼   ► be grouped together and you can have attachments inside sheets, which I used last week to prepare

00:12:00 ◼   ► some iOS 9.3 coverage. I was saving screenshots and placing the screenshots right inside my

00:12:07 ◼   ► document, not into my Photos app, where for some reason I never find them again. So yeah,

00:12:13 ◼   ► I'm getting used to it. I think I'm positive that I'm gonna keep using it. I will keep

00:12:20 ◼   ► you updated over the next few weeks. I want to know more. Yeah I'm excited about

00:12:26 ◼   ► it mainly for that revision history like you guys were talking about. I mean I'm

00:12:30 ◼   ► using one writer which syncs Dropbox files offline which is really nice and

00:12:34 ◼   ► then I'm using NV alt on the Mac but it's nice to have the flexibility right

00:12:39 ◼   ► there because they're just files I can open something up and buy word or BB

00:12:43 ◼   ► edit or pull it down from Dropbox and kind of get at it from anywhere and

00:12:48 ◼   ► iCloud just has those walls around it that I don't really want to deal with.

00:12:52 ◼   ► So I'm with you, I'm excited about it, and I will definitely be spending some serious

00:12:58 ◼   ► time with it once Dropbox support is out.

00:13:00 ◼   ► Yeah, I've been back on editorial recently for some of the stuff that I've been doing.

00:13:06 ◼   ► And it's nice on the iPad Pro.

00:13:08 ◼   ► The beta is very nice.

00:13:10 ◼   ► Alright, talking about all this text stuff, I just wanted to take a quick moment, because

00:13:16 ◼   ► we're going to talk about the Apple event now. To talk about our coverage and stuff,

00:13:21 ◼   ► because we all kind of did our own little things yesterday, I wanted to just point out

00:13:26 ◼   ► the abundance of MaxStories links that are going to be in the show notes, because Federico

00:13:30 ◼   ► and his team posted 675 articles yesterday. I counted. 675. It was really impressive.

00:13:38 ◼   ► You should be very proud.

00:13:40 ◼   ► Thank you. It was only, I think, 14 or 15 maybe. But it's more than usual.

00:13:46 ◼   ► Yeah, it was a... Clearly you have either grown six more sets of arms or you have built

00:13:53 ◼   ► an incredible team around you.

00:13:55 ◼   ► Yeah, the guys have been really, really great. I'm really happy with the... You know, we planned

00:14:00 ◼   ► it in advance. We had like a full outline of how we wanted to cover the announcements

00:14:07 ◼   ► and we had a sort of plan based on, you know, 9 to 5 Mac basically gave us.

00:14:13 ◼   ► That is helpful for you actually, isn't it?

00:14:15 ◼   ► Because you can just assign the products as you know what they are.

00:14:18 ◼   ► We had two white cards and we said, well, based on what they are, we're just gonna,

00:14:24 ◼   ► you know, see what it is, go with the flow and we'll talk over Slack.

00:14:28 ◼   ► But we had a strategy based on, you know, iPhone, iPad.

00:14:31 ◼   ► I was getting iPad, of course.

00:14:33 ◼   ► Alex was getting the iPhone and we knew there were going to be watch announcements.

00:14:38 ◼   ► So we were like five people talking in Slack and it went really nicely.

00:14:43 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:14:44 ◼   ► Out of set.

00:14:45 ◼   ► Thank you, Myke.

00:14:47 ◼   ► Steven was doing his usual tweeting, as he is known to do.

00:14:53 ◼   ► If you don't follow the 512 pixels account, 512px on Twitter, you should follow it just

00:14:59 ◼   ► for Apple events.

00:15:00 ◼   ► goes a little bit crazy? It's very serious news coverage, so what can I say?

00:15:08 ◼   ► You also did a little article that we'll talk about in a bit, which is really cool. And

00:15:15 ◼   ► me and Jason recorded a weird and special episode of Upgrade where Jason called in from

00:15:22 ◼   ► his car on his way back from Cupertino to the Six Colors world headquarters and we recorded

00:15:28 ◼   ► the show that way. And I actually am really happy with how it turned out. It was a lot

00:15:34 ◼   ► of work from both me and Jason to get it just right. But I actually listened back to a bunch

00:15:38 ◼   ► of it today and I'm pretty happy with it. It was fun. It was something different to

00:15:43 ◼   ► what we usually do. So if you haven't heard that, again, more links in the show notes,

00:15:47 ◼   ► upgrade episode 81. So that's that. Let's actually talk about what happened. So what

00:15:54 ◼   ► we didn't know at the time when Tim made his big statement about the FBI was the way the

00:15:58 ◼   ► rest of the day would play out. And Federico, what happened yesterday evening in regards

00:16:04 ◼   ► to the FBI investigation?

00:16:07 ◼   ► I was basically postponed because the Department of Justice argued that a third party approached

00:16:13 ◼   ► them saying that there could be a method of unlocking the iPhone without having Apple's

00:16:19 ◼   ► assistance. And the judge, whose name I don't remember, I think it's Judge… yeah, I don't

00:16:26 ◼   ► remember.

00:16:27 ◼   ► PIM. PIM, yes. Okay. I was about to say PING, but that's another product.

00:16:33 ◼   ► Close. The judge isn't a product.

00:16:37 ◼   ► No. So they granted the FBI and the Justice Department a new hearing on April 5 to report

00:16:46 ◼   ► back on these tests that they're going to do on this action based on the method from

00:16:52 ◼   ► a third party. We don't know who the third party is. Might as well be John McAfee. We

00:16:56 ◼   ► don't know mm-hmm I think it's probably the NSA well guys I've got a special

00:17:05 ◼   ► guest to me here today it's the FBI it's me it was me all along I worked it out

00:17:10 ◼   ► it basically a lot of people are saying that they think the FBI is chickening

00:17:16 ◼   ► out of this I don't know I don't know how to take that I mean maybe what do

00:17:21 ◼   ► you guys think? Do you think there's any merit in that theory?

00:17:25 ◼   ► I mean, maybe a little, but I don't think they would say in what I imagine is sworn

00:17:31 ◼   ► testimony that they have someone else who thinks they can unlock it. Like, I don't

00:17:35 ◼   ► know. I mean, it's one of those things you may never know. And, you know, a lot of people

00:17:38 ◼   ► are like, "Hey, it's over." It's like, "Well, no, it's not over. It's kind of on

00:17:42 ◼   ► hold." And so they could go off and, "We'll just say that, you know, whoever it is could

00:17:48 ◼   ► go unlock it and that's that or that could prove to be incorrect and they could come

00:17:55 ◼   ► back and say hey you know what we tried this and you know what now you really should do

00:18:00 ◼   ► it because we have gone through you know all these other steps to do it and you truly are

00:18:05 ◼   ► our our last you know ditch effort so I don't see this as a victory yet but it's it's maybe

00:18:12 ◼   ► a ray of hope for people that want it to go Apple's way but it's not over. It's

00:18:18 ◼   ► not over so I think I think those headlines are a little premature but

00:18:22 ◼   ► we'll see you know it could be this just quietly goes away and if that's the case

00:18:25 ◼   ► then we can either assume that whoever it is did get into the phone and that's

00:18:30 ◼   ► got its own ramifications or that it really was they realized that they were

00:18:36 ◼   ► losing the public battle and so they sort of you know backed off from it but

00:18:41 ◼   ► again we'll probably think there's a big chance that we'll never actually know.

00:18:47 ◼   ► Apple opened the event with one of their cute little videos that they've done in

00:18:52 ◼   ► the past since was it like WWDC a year or two ago?

00:18:56 ◼   ► Was it the iOS 7 was like the first real time this had happened right? Yeah it had like the

00:19:02 ◼   ► little like little marbles or something yeah balls rolling around and

00:19:06 ◼   ► stuff and they've done they did one I think last year about like how app

00:19:10 ◼   ► developers like make the world really special it was like painting around a

00:19:13 ◼   ► room right and the words kind of appeared and disappeared based on the

00:19:16 ◼   ► angle so they've been doing some fun stuff recently. And this one was kind of

00:19:22 ◼   ► in anticipation of celebrating Apple's 40th year right which is what and on

00:19:31 ◼   ► April 1st? Yes. So there's that and and as part of this they basically showed up a

00:19:37 ◼   ► bunch of keywords and phrases and product names and in-jokes and there was

00:19:45 ◼   ► only one man who could decipher this code and he's with us today. Yes I was

00:19:53 ◼   ► listening to Upgrade washing dishes after dinner and Jason says hey you know

00:19:58 ◼   ► my first thought was that Steven should do like pull apart the video frame by

00:20:03 ◼   ► frame and like list out annotate everything that's in it and basically I

00:20:07 ◼   ► was like that's a great idea I should go do that and so I went and did it and

00:20:11 ◼   ► several hours later it took a long time I did learn that if you're in QuickTime

00:20:16 ◼   ► you can use the arrow keys to advance one frame at a time which is very

00:20:19 ◼   ► helpful when you're doing something like this but it's a fun it's a fun list

00:20:23 ◼   ► right like it's everything from 1984 in the Macintosh there's a lot of stuff

00:20:29 ◼   ► about the iMac g3 and then a lot of you know more modern stuff but it's I don't

00:20:34 ◼   ► know how many individual slides there are because I didn't number this list but it's

00:20:38 ◼   ► a bunch of stuff. Anything that jumps out for you specifically? I mean so two things

00:20:47 ◼   ► a the the Newton slide like it's really hilarious especially if you realize that. What is the

00:20:52 ◼   ► joke? So the word Newton stays up there and then after a moment they scribble through

00:20:57 ◼   ► it with like a line and if you are using a Newton that's how you delete a word is to

00:21:02 ◼   ► scribble through it. So it was kind of a little funny little jab at the Newton.

00:21:09 ◼   ► The guys who run the Newton Talk Twitter account really incensed over

00:21:14 ◼   ► this, saying they were going to scratch through Apple executives, which seems a

00:21:18 ◼   ► little overreaction. How often do the Newton people get in the news?

00:21:30 ◼   ► Yeah, you gotta give them it, right? And you gotta know it's gonna be negative, right?

00:21:35 ◼   ► Short of me writing something, I don't know who's writing anything positive about the

00:21:38 ◼   ► Newton these days. There's Newton people still?

00:21:41 ◼   ► Yes. What do they do?

00:21:45 ◼   ► Probably not a lot if they're still using the Newton.

00:21:48 ◼   ► No, I mean, serious question. Do they still use the Newton for, like, everyday computing?

00:21:56 ◼   ► I know people who use them as sort of like a... I mean, there are a couple people who

00:21:59 ◼   ► I still use them like daily I think I used it daily in college like 10 years ago

00:22:03 ◼   ► But I think that there's still some people who it's a it's a really passionate hobby like I think the word

00:22:08 ◼   ► I use in the end the list is like

00:22:10 ◼   ► enthusiasts

00:22:12 ◼   ► hmm

00:22:13 ◼   ► Can he go on the on the internet for example can I can you can put a wireless card in it and you can get?

00:22:19 ◼   ► on the internet, okay slowly and very

00:22:21 ◼   ► Simply, but yeah, it'll go

00:22:24 ◼   ► The other thing that jumped on me was all the iMac g3 stuff

00:22:28 ◼   ► They talk about the computer they have tangerine lime strawberry blueberry and

00:22:34 ◼   ► grape which were the five colors and or the five flavors as they called them and

00:22:40 ◼   ► those were the some of the only colored slides in the video so they've really

00:22:44 ◼   ► jumped out when you're when you were watching watching it and it's something

00:22:48 ◼   ► that's been on my mind because I'm in a phase of iMac G3 acquisition and so I've

00:22:56 ◼   ► been spending some time looking at them. So that jumped out at me. What does that mean exactly?

00:23:02 ◼   ► So I am trying to source one of each color for a project and so I have three now and

00:23:15 ◼   ► I've got a lead on almost every other color. Some of those I'm gonna have to just wait

00:23:21 ◼   ► until they show up on eBay but I got someone I think locally who has some iMacs that they're

00:23:25 ◼   ► gonna let me have. When you say project, do you mean hoarding? Like what is project?

00:23:32 ◼   ► When you say you have a lead, is it like an investigation that is going on?

00:23:38 ◼   ► Tracking down computers? Someone did, I got today, someone did email me after I

00:23:44 ◼   ► tweeted about it and they sent me an indigo that they had, which is pretty

00:23:48 ◼   ► cool. These aren't small, these are really big things and you want like six of them.

00:23:53 ◼   ► No, I can tell you. One, two, three, seven, eight, nine, ten. There's like twelve, I think

00:23:59 ◼   ► twelve different colors.

00:24:00 ◼   ► Are you going and trying to get all of them?

00:24:04 ◼   ► Mm-hmm. Yep.

00:24:06 ◼   ► You are one of the nicest people I've ever had the pleasure of knowing.

00:24:11 ◼   ► So those are twelve computers.

00:24:12 ◼   ► I don't know how you're married. I just don't know how it continues. I've met Mary. She's

00:24:18 ◼   ► very lovely and I don't understand it.

00:24:22 ◼   ► I don't want to put words in her mouth, but she's not real thrilled.

00:24:25 ◼   ► Okay, okay.

00:24:26 ◼   ► So those are 12 different models of the same computer.

00:24:30 ◼   ► Is that right?

00:24:31 ◼   ► Yes.

00:24:32 ◼   ► 12.

00:24:33 ◼   ► Yes.

00:24:34 ◼   ► And you should put them on a long table and you sit in the middle and, you know, what's

00:24:38 ◼   ► the painting from Leonardo da Vinci, you know?

00:24:41 ◼   ► The Last Supper?

00:24:42 ◼   ► The Last Supper.

00:24:43 ◼   ► Wow.

00:24:44 ◼   ► And you do a recreation of that with you in the middle.

00:24:46 ◼   ► You know, 12 old computers.

00:24:48 ◼   ► I mean, I don't know what your project is, but it ain't gonna be better than that.

00:24:52 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:24:54 ◼   ► - The last supper of IMAX is pretty good.

00:24:57 ◼   ► So I'm gonna scrap what I had in mind.

00:25:00 ◼   ► - Oh, was there an Apple event this week?

00:25:03 ◼   ► - I don't know, yeah, can we get off of me

00:25:05 ◼   ► and do something else?

00:25:06 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:25:07 ◼   ► - One billion active Apple devices,

00:25:10 ◼   ► this came up again, right?

00:25:12 ◼   ► They, I was trying to find it,

00:25:15 ◼   ► they mentioned this number before,

00:25:17 ◼   ► was it during a conference call or something?

00:25:18 ◼   ► - It was the last analyst call.

00:25:20 ◼   ► - Okay, so one billion active Apple devices.

00:25:24 ◼   ► I will admit that 337 of them are at my house,

00:25:27 ◼   ► but I think the way they count this are things

00:25:29 ◼   ► that check in with like an Apple internet service,

00:25:32 ◼   ► I think is how, I think that's kind of believed

00:25:34 ◼   ► how this number has come to.

00:25:37 ◼   ► And that number is really crazy to me,

00:25:40 ◼   ► that it's one billion seems impossible to understand.

00:25:44 ◼   ► - It's a lot.

00:25:47 ◼   ► Like I don't even--

00:25:49 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:25:50 ◼   ► - It's a lot, like it's a lot.

00:25:51 ◼   ► And I think they used that, Tim put that up

00:25:54 ◼   ► before he started talking about the privacy thing.

00:25:56 ◼   ► Like we have to protect all of these people,

00:25:58 ◼   ► I think was his kind of thing there, right?

00:26:01 ◼   ► - And I think it was to sort of show that Apple's not

00:26:07 ◼   ► like this like rinky-dink company

00:26:09 ◼   ► that can be pushed around.

00:26:10 ◼   ► Like they're also, they are saying,

00:26:12 ◼   ► and I believe what you said, that it's about like,

00:26:14 ◼   ► we have all these people that we feel we're responsible to,

00:26:17 ◼   ► but also like we're kind of a big deal,

00:26:19 ◼   ► And you could see a world where if this continues,

00:26:24 ◼   ► that Apple's gonna be like,

00:26:26 ◼   ► we have one billion active Apple devices

00:26:29 ◼   ► and we're an American company.

00:26:30 ◼   ► Like that's sort of the undertone I get out of this

00:26:32 ◼   ► is like, we're a big deal and we're here.

00:26:35 ◼   ► And it's obviously incredibly impressive.

00:26:39 ◼   ► And like you said,

00:26:40 ◼   ► difficult to sort of wrap your head around.

00:26:43 ◼   ► But I think that that number works in their favor

00:26:45 ◼   ► in a bunch of different ways.

00:26:46 ◼   ► - Yeah, no doubt.

00:26:49 ◼   ► Then they kind of went into the environmental stuff.

00:26:51 ◼   ► There's some interesting things there.

00:26:53 ◼   ► A lot of the stuff that Apple's doing for the environment

00:26:57 ◼   ► and their carbon offsetting and things like that.

00:26:58 ◼   ► But the real kind of cool news is the LEM robot, right?

00:27:02 ◼   ► Like that's what everyone's latching onto.

00:27:04 ◼   ► I mean, look, it is amazing what they're doing.

00:27:06 ◼   ► Like 99% recycled paper, 93% all renewable energy.

00:27:09 ◼   ► Some countries are 100%.

00:27:11 ◼   ► They go over 100% worldwide,

00:27:12 ◼   ► but they created a robot that has an eye that can tear apart

00:27:18 ◼   ► and just cast aside the insides of iPhones, right?

00:27:24 ◼   ► Have you read the Mashable story?

00:27:26 ◼   ► I haven't yet, I haven't yet. I saw that just before we started recording.

00:27:31 ◼   ► It's a giant robot that occupies an entire warehouse, and in the video you only see one

00:27:37 ◼   ► arm or maybe two arms of the robot. It's got 29 of those arms moving around.

00:27:43 ◼   ► Oh, that's horrific!

00:27:45 ◼   ► It's basically a huge machine and it takes I think 11 seconds, if I got this correctly,

00:27:55 ◼   ► it takes, let me see, 11 seconds to complete an iPhone disassembly process with dozens

00:28:04 ◼   ► running through the system at all times.

00:28:07 ◼   ► And it can turn around 350 units each hour for 1.2 million iPhones each year.

00:28:16 ◼   ► So this is just one single Lian robot machine.

00:28:19 ◼   ► It can do over a million iPhones each year.

00:28:22 ◼   ► It's a huge number, you know?

00:28:25 ◼   ► It's a little terrifying.

00:28:26 ◼   ► It is terrifying.

00:28:28 ◼   ► It's got 29 arms and it's basically like a giant robot inside of a warehouse eating iPhones

00:28:35 ◼   ► and spitting out parts in different buckets. And I mean, it's a very, it's a great initiative,

00:28:43 ◼   ► you know, especially because Apple explained to Mashable, we can cut through all the different

00:28:48 ◼   ► elements real precisely. So it's not like the traditional recycling process. It may

00:28:53 ◼   ► happen that, you know, that maybe the copper gets mixed up with a bunch of steel and then,

00:28:59 ◼   ► you know, the recycling process, it's not as good as it could be. We got this robot

00:29:04 ◼   ► with all sorts of crazy machinery going on, and we can precisely separate each element.

00:29:11 ◼   ► Which is great news, you know, especially because Apple can then resell all this material

00:29:16 ◼   ► which is not contaminated by other material to different companies that recycle the material

00:29:21 ◼   ► and it goes out, back out into the world. So it's great news, it's just, you know,

00:29:26 ◼   ► maybe the fact that it's a robot with 29 arms and it's got a name, it's only slightly terrifying,

00:29:33 ◼   ► I think.

00:29:34 ◼   ► I wonder what Liam stands for.

00:29:36 ◼   ► There must be a background to it, right?

00:29:38 ◼   ► No, there's no name.

00:29:39 ◼   ► According to Apple, Mashable was guessing.

00:29:43 ◼   ► They asked them, "Does it mean like line inverse assemble machine?"

00:29:50 ◼   ► Something like that.

00:29:51 ◼   ► And Apple was like, "No, it's just a name.

00:29:52 ◼   ► We looked at the robot and it looked like Liam and we named it Liam."

00:29:57 ◼   ► What can a robot look like that it looks like Liam?

00:30:01 ◼   ► It's 29 arms. That's the thing. Like, do they, does somebody really hate somebody called

00:30:06 ◼   ► Liam inside of Apple? Like, there's a guy nobody likes?

00:30:10 ◼   ► Something's really wrong with that guy.

00:30:11 ◼   ► Something's really... That looks just like Liam from Accounting, you know, the 29-arm

00:30:15 ◼   ► guy.

00:30:16 ◼   ► Wow. HR.

00:30:17 ◼   ► It was cool. And the, we glossed over it, but the environmental stuff is a big deal.

00:30:24 ◼   ► And I wasn't aware that they were so far into the renewable energy stuff, but I mean, again,

00:30:32 ◼   ► for a company of their size, clearly they're making a huge investment here and with a belief

00:30:37 ◼   ► that they are really improving the world.

00:30:39 ◼   ► So it's great.

00:30:40 ◼   ► And it was great to see some of that.

00:30:43 ◼   ► Obviously there's like the yak joke going around, which is rather hilarious, but it

00:30:48 ◼   ► It was a nice way to kind of set the stage a little bit going into these products.

00:30:55 ◼   ► Instead of a retail update, having an update in these other areas.

00:30:59 ◼   ► I think the point of bringing this up yesterday was, you know, you say you didn't know it.

00:31:05 ◼   ► I don't think anybody knew that they were this far along.

00:31:07 ◼   ► I think that was maybe why they brought it up.

00:31:10 ◼   ► So it was like, we've spoken about this before, but oh by the way, look at all this crazy

00:31:14 ◼   ► stuff we're doing.

00:31:15 ◼   ► It was cool.

00:31:16 ◼   ► It's a tough one.

00:31:17 ◼   ► - Cool, it's cool. - It's a thing.

00:31:18 ◼   ► - But do you wanna talk about ResearchKit and CareKit?

00:31:22 ◼   ► - Yeah, so ResearchKit has been,

00:31:25 ◼   ► it was announced a while back,

00:31:26 ◼   ► and Jeff Williams kind of runs Apple's Health Stuff,

00:31:31 ◼   ► along with a lot of other duties at Apple,

00:31:33 ◼   ► spoke about ResearchKit and how it's being used

00:31:36 ◼   ► and kind of building the case that it's being adopted.

00:31:38 ◼   ► And as a refresher,

00:31:39 ◼   ► ResearchKit is an open source platform from Apple

00:31:43 ◼   ► where institutions, hospitals, clinics, that sort of thing,

00:31:45 ◼   ► can build apps to basically have a at-large sampling

00:31:50 ◼   ► of medical data.

00:31:55 ◼   ► And so before, if you were going into one of these studies,

00:31:58 ◼   ► it could be very small or very labor and time intensive

00:32:01 ◼   ► to find people to join your study.

00:32:05 ◼   ► And now it's much simpler,

00:32:07 ◼   ► Apple argues, with a research kit.

00:32:08 ◼   ► And it seems that that's the case.

00:32:10 ◼   ► And they're expanding that with CareKit,

00:32:14 ◼   ► which best to understand it is basically a set,

00:32:17 ◼   ► it's open source like ResearchKit,

00:32:19 ◼   ► but it's a set of tools that can go into apps

00:32:22 ◼   ► for patients to be more engaged with their own care.

00:32:26 ◼   ► And so it comes with a couple of different,

00:32:28 ◼   ► I think what they call modules,

00:32:30 ◼   ► some for some tracking stuff.

00:32:33 ◼   ► So you can track range of motion.

00:32:36 ◼   ► You can hold the iPhone, the example Jeff Williams gave,

00:32:38 ◼   ► hold the iPhone in your hand and lift your shoulder.

00:32:40 ◼   ► And the accelerometer in the phone

00:32:42 ◼   ► well I can measure your range of motion.

00:32:45 ◼   ► You can put pain scores in,

00:32:47 ◼   ► but then there's also a whole follow-up deal.

00:32:50 ◼   ► So if you go and have a procedure done,

00:32:52 ◼   ► I've had this when I had my elbow worked on,

00:32:55 ◼   ► they basically just give you a couple sheets of paper

00:32:56 ◼   ► and they're like, yeah, do this, don't do that,

00:32:58 ◼   ► this is the medicine you need to take.

00:32:59 ◼   ► Well you can build that into an app now

00:33:01 ◼   ► where it can be interactive.

00:33:02 ◼   ► So a patient can go in and say yes,

00:33:05 ◼   ► if I'm supposed to change my dressing every three days,

00:33:07 ◼   ► I can go in and check off that I've done that,

00:33:08 ◼   ► or I can be reminded of it.

00:33:10 ◼   ► and really making that sort of Africa scenario

00:33:14 ◼   ► much more like in the 21st century.

00:33:18 ◼   ► And I think it's great and it's,

00:33:19 ◼   ► and I tweeted this yesterday and like I know

00:33:21 ◼   ► that it kind of sounds cheesy or it just comes across

00:33:24 ◼   ► as like being a fanboy, but I really believe

00:33:27 ◼   ► that in this sort of stuff, like A, Apple doesn't have

00:33:31 ◼   ► to do this, B, like I guess if there's any impact

00:33:35 ◼   ► to their bottom line is that people are buying

00:33:37 ◼   ► and using iPhones and people are already buying

00:33:39 ◼   ► and using iPhones.

00:33:40 ◼   ► I mean, I'm sure this is a loss for them on their P&L,

00:33:44 ◼   ► but the idea of leaving a dent in the universe,

00:33:48 ◼   ► as Steve Jobs talked about,

00:33:49 ◼   ► this is where they're doing it.

00:33:51 ◼   ► And they had a part of the research kit video

00:33:55 ◼   ► about studying things like epilepsy,

00:33:59 ◼   ► and can there be a pattern in people's heartbeats

00:34:04 ◼   ► before a seizure starts?

00:34:06 ◼   ► And if you know you're epileptic

00:34:07 ◼   ► you have you go into this rhythm like maybe you get a warning before you have

00:34:12 ◼   ► a seizure so if you're driving you can pull over or if you're in a grocery

00:34:16 ◼   ► store you can go find help and like someone who deals with epilepsy in their

00:34:20 ◼   ► immediate family like that's huge because that stuff can just come on with

00:34:24 ◼   ► no warning and I mean it can be really dangerous and I think it gets me I mean

00:34:31 ◼   ► obviously it's personal for me but I think it really is an area where like

00:34:35 ◼   ► like them or don't like them like their products, don't like their products. I don't

00:34:38 ◼   ► think anyone can argue that this is a great thing that Apple's doing. You know

00:34:42 ◼   ► I was looking through Twitter yesterday during the event and I saw a lot of

00:34:47 ◼   ► white tech bloggers making fun of research kit and care kit saying you

00:34:53 ◼   ► know now Apple wants to have all of your health data, they want to make money, this

00:34:58 ◼   ► is not so as you know make as a good initiative as they make it out to be.

00:35:03 ◼   ► Well, you know, these people, they probably never had to worry about a single serious

00:35:08 ◼   ► health scare in their lives.

00:35:10 ◼   ► Let me tell you, when you do, you know, when you do chemo, then you gotta do physical therapy,

00:35:15 ◼   ► and you gotta go through a bunch of paper sheets every time, and there's no correct

00:35:19 ◼   ► way to, you know, to look at all this data, there's no useful way to assess all of these,

00:35:25 ◼   ► you know, different data points.

00:35:26 ◼   ► Does your leg hurt?

00:35:28 ◼   ► Does the muscle hurt?

00:35:29 ◼   ► You know, did you do your exercises?

00:35:31 ◼   ► There's no good way to track all this. And any company who wants to make a tool to do

00:35:37 ◼   ► this stuff easily and to keep track of it and to help people, well, you know what? I

00:35:41 ◼   ► don't care if they also make money because they're helping me, you know? I went through

00:35:46 ◼   ► physical therapy and it wasn't fun. Especially when you gotta remember and you gotta print

00:35:52 ◼   ► out all of these paper sheets with all the exercises that you gotta do at home and you

00:35:56 ◼   ► forget and you don't like to go through those paper sheets because they're not on your phone

00:36:01 ◼   ► and you know it's a very bad quality you can never you don't understand drawings

00:36:05 ◼   ► but and you you don't have you know 3d animations on the drawings and then you

00:36:11 ◼   ► forget to fill out the forms you know it sucks it generally sucks and so when i

00:36:17 ◼   ► see these people making fun of something that can help others well it really gets

00:36:22 ◼   ► under my skin you know i think like my my feeling on this is i think that it is

00:36:28 ◼   ► a bit of column A, a bit of column B. They're trying to help everyone, but it's also a way

00:36:34 ◼   ► to help sell devices and market the products. But that doesn't even matter. It doesn't matter

00:36:41 ◼   ► if that's the thing. Because if you're actually, you know, and they said that some of the studies

00:36:46 ◼   ► that they've done ended up being some of the largest clinical studies in history. So it

00:36:51 ◼   ► doesn't matter if the reason you're doing it is to sell more iPhones. Because the result is amazing.

00:36:57 ◼   ► I don't think it matters either way. Of course part of it is to sell iPhones, otherwise they

00:37:05 ◼   ► would create devices for free and get them out to everyone in the world. But they're

00:37:08 ◼   ► not doing that, right? And they don't need to do that, they shouldn't have to do that.

00:37:11 ◼   ► They have a billion people using their devices, right? You only need like 0.001% of them and

00:37:16 ◼   ► it's a massive research study. But I think it's like whatever, let them do it. Because

00:37:21 ◼   ► what they're doing is actually making some people's lives better. I don't see why that's

00:37:26 ◼   ► an issue for some people but it is.

00:37:28 ◼   ► You know that's rich coming from some people who will solely concern is to look at the

00:37:32 ◼   ► page views but you know whatever.

00:37:34 ◼   ► It just gets to me.

00:37:37 ◼   ► He's not angry.

00:37:38 ◼   ► Not at all.

00:37:39 ◼   ► Let's take a break.

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00:39:11 ◼   ► and you'll get $50 credit towards any paid plan.

00:39:14 ◼   ► Seriously, if you have any type of membership program that you need to do or maybe you're

00:39:20 ◼   ► saying like a social club or something and everybody needs to put money into it. If you

00:39:25 ◼   ► can integrate something like Memberfall into your system, you're going to be happy. We

00:39:28 ◼   ► did it so we could have a large-scale, long-running thing. Federico did the same and I'm sure

00:39:34 ◼   ► he would say great things about Memberfall. They are fantastic. Thank you so much to Memberfall

00:39:38 ◼   ► for their support of this show.

00:39:41 ◼   ► I really do love Memberfall. The entire club McSorrys runs on Memberfall. It's just, you

00:39:46 ◼   ► know, perfect for our needs. I didn't even know it was a sponsor today, so you know,

00:39:51 ◼   ► it's genuine feedback. I really do love it.

00:39:54 ◼   ► Also, we have been really responsive for support and stuff for us as well.

00:39:57 ◼   ► Oh yeah.

00:39:58 ◼   ► They've even implemented some features that we needed. Like, when a company does that

00:40:02 ◼   ► for you, it's a great company.

00:40:04 ◼   ► Yeah, and the guy actually writes to you, which is awesome. So yes, a really happy customer.

00:40:10 ◼   ► Alright, so let's talk about what wasn't announced at the Apple event, which was anything Macintosh-related.

00:40:17 ◼   ► Waaah.

00:40:18 ◼   ► Now, I think that there's a real simple reason for this, but go ahead, Stephen.

00:40:25 ◼   ► No, I mean, Skylake MacBook Pros clearly on deck at some point.

00:40:31 ◼   ► They've got to be ready.

00:40:33 ◼   ► There's been rumors of external display.

00:40:36 ◼   ► I would like one of each.

00:40:37 ◼   ► I have.

00:40:38 ◼   ► I'm just waiting.

00:40:39 ◼   ► But, you know, clearly not the event for this.

00:40:43 ◼   ► You know, my initial thought was,

00:40:45 ◼   ► with the environment and the FBI stuff,

00:40:47 ◼   ► they wanted those things to be more,

00:40:50 ◼   ► like a bigger piece of the pie.

00:40:52 ◼   ► And so, to give those things some time to breathe,

00:40:55 ◼   ► but I think your theory is even better.

00:40:57 ◼   ► - I just, as I was watching the presentation,

00:41:00 ◼   ► and Sheila kept saying over and over again

00:41:04 ◼   ► that the iPad was the future of computing,

00:41:08 ◼   ► and they were talking about Windows switches coming to the iPad.

00:41:12 ◼   ► I think having Macs in there as well would have mixed that iPad message.

00:41:15 ◼   ► I actually think that this this message of future of computing

00:41:20 ◼   ► and all people that switch to the Apple ecosystem go to iPad first.

00:41:24 ◼   ► I think this is the new iPad marketing campaign, like the long running one.

00:41:30 ◼   ► Like this is going to be how they can kind of phrase this,

00:41:33 ◼   ► because if this stuff is all true, which we assume that it is,

00:41:36 ◼   ► This is stuff that they should be leveraging.

00:41:38 ◼   ► And they show a video later on.

00:41:41 ◼   ► They show a, or there's at least a video on the website

00:41:45 ◼   ► of people using their iPads, right?

00:41:48 ◼   ► They have one of those new iPad marketing videos.

00:41:51 ◼   ► And in that video, there are people working on documents,

00:41:57 ◼   ► working on images, in FaceTime calls,

00:41:59 ◼   ► like these aren't people hanging on the side

00:42:01 ◼   ► of mountain faces in tents anymore.

00:42:04 ◼   ► - No. - Thank goodness.

00:42:05 ◼   ► This is the way to market the iPad because everyone that I know that has started to love

00:42:11 ◼   ► their iPad Pros, and it's not just me and Federico, like you look at Serenity Caldwell,

00:42:17 ◼   ► I was just listening to MacPowers and obviously I notice from talking to Jason all the time

00:42:21 ◼   ► that he doesn't use a laptop anymore, like he uses his iMac and his iPad Pro.

00:42:25 ◼   ► I know Steven that you're using yours more and more.

00:42:28 ◼   ► The people that are using this device to do stuff, they're doing work on them.

00:42:33 ◼   ► not like trying to create a banned recital choreography. All of that stuff is really

00:42:38 ◼   ► cool but that's not the stuff that you show to the world because it doesn't relate to

00:42:43 ◼   ► the average person. This campaign of showing people in offices with architectural plans

00:42:50 ◼   ► on FaceTime calls in picture in picture using the pencil to draw things and make notes,

00:42:57 ◼   ► this is how they should be marketing this product. And I think they, I mean Touchwood,

00:43:02 ◼   ► have finally found the thing that might try and open this up to a wider audience again.

00:43:07 ◼   ► It's very practical, you know, showing people getting work done. You know, keyboards, documents,

00:43:13 ◼   ► chatting with other colleagues. It's very pragmatic, I would say. It's not, you know,

00:43:17 ◼   ► scuba diving with an iPad. Of course, yeah, you know, that's really cool, but, you know,

00:43:21 ◼   ► I don't explore the oceans with an iPad. I just gotta fill out this spreadsheet. So yeah,

00:43:26 ◼   ► makes sense. And I'm happy that they're going in this route. And yeah, I just think that

00:43:31 ◼   ► really that it more than once I think that the beginning and the closing of

00:43:35 ◼   ► the iPad Pro section was this future of computing thing and I think if they

00:43:41 ◼   ► would have closed that and about right now the Mac I don't know if it would

00:43:46 ◼   ► have landed so well I did I did have a chuckle that they had in like one of the

00:43:52 ◼   ► images behind children was talking is someone working on a surface like or

00:43:56 ◼   ► it's the idea that you know PCs are changing into these sort of convertible

00:44:01 ◼   ► things and that really is, especially the Pro,

00:44:05 ◼   ► once you get the keyboard on it,

00:44:06 ◼   ► like it is more of a convertible than a straight tablet

00:44:09 ◼   ► for a lot of people and so, you know I've got,

00:44:12 ◼   ► I don't disagree with the philosophy

00:44:17 ◼   ► of this marketing push.

00:44:19 ◼   ► It did feel a little thin when he first started talking

00:44:24 ◼   ► of like, why we're doing this new iPad Pro

00:44:28 ◼   ► and it's for like Windows switches.

00:44:29 ◼   ► I'm like, well, is it like, do people want to switch to a 10 inch tablet or do they want

00:44:33 ◼   ► to go to something bigger?

00:44:34 ◼   ► And I mean, obviously I don't know.

00:44:36 ◼   ► Right.

00:44:37 ◼   ► And Apple, I'm sure, has information about what people are coming from and if people

00:44:42 ◼   ► are repeat customers or not and all that stuff.

00:44:45 ◼   ► But clearly they're just trying something in a new direction to jumpstart those iPad

00:44:50 ◼   ► numbers and like that I've got no problem with.

00:44:52 ◼   ► All we know is the current direction is not working.

00:44:54 ◼   ► Right.

00:44:55 ◼   ► Like that's what we know.

00:44:56 ◼   ► and they've got to be the conversations that are happening inside of Apple's iPad marketing

00:45:01 ◼   ► teams. We thought this was really good, this looked really nice, it highlighted some stuff,

00:45:06 ◼   ► but it's not landing with people because sales numbers keep going down. So I think this is

00:45:10 ◼   ► the right move.

00:45:11 ◼   ► Can I just point out one, maybe not so little, but something that you don't like from this

00:45:19 ◼   ► section. When Phil Schiller said that people using a five-year-old PC is sad, I think that

00:45:26 ◼   ► that's really not cool. I mean I get why Apple, what kind of angle they were going for. You

00:45:34 ◼   ► know, we want to sell an iPad to these people because people believe that an iPad is a better

00:45:38 ◼   ► computer. But just the tone, you know, the half-hand comment saying "yeah, you know,

00:45:43 ◼   ► these people, they're using old computers, well that's sad". You know, on stage from

00:45:48 ◼   ► an executive, really not cool.

00:45:52 ◼   ► I think that Schiller was doing a little bit of ad-libbing here and it didn't pay off for

00:45:57 ◼   ► him so well.

00:45:59 ◼   ► Because the message that I think that they were trying to get across at this point was

00:46:04 ◼   ► there are people who have machines that are five years old.

00:46:07 ◼   ► That means they're likely to be upgrading at some point.

00:46:10 ◼   ► We want them on the iPad.

00:46:12 ◼   ► I think that was the message they were trying to get across.

00:46:15 ◼   ► But he was trying to make a joke for the Apple people in the room.

00:46:18 ◼   ► But all it's done is, it's become one of those things where people are complaining that Apple

00:46:23 ◼   ► has a bunch of products that are that year old as well, like for sale right now.

00:46:28 ◼   ► And it's like, yeah, you know, like it's true, right?

00:46:32 ◼   ► Like how old is the Mac Mini at this point?

00:46:35 ◼   ► You know, like they're still selling this stuff.

00:46:38 ◼   ► I mean, and you really want to go that we can go back to where a couple of weeks ago

00:46:40 ◼   ► you still selling hard drives, spinning hard drives in your Macs.

00:46:44 ◼   ► you know, how far down this do you think we want to go here? Yeah, I just think that that

00:46:52 ◼   ► was like, they tried, we're trying to make a good point, but it got mired down in a bad

00:46:57 ◼   ► joke.

00:46:58 ◼   ► Yeah, especially because you don't really want to point out the fact that, you know,

00:47:03 ◼   ► because it seems like, well, those people are sad, you don't want to put the spotlight

00:47:08 ◼   ► on what people are doing, because you don't know why people are using an old computer.

00:47:12 ◼   ► You don't know if people don't have the money to buy a new computer.

00:47:15 ◼   ► You want to put the spotlight on "we believe we have a better product".

00:47:19 ◼   ► That's a positive message, not that kind of poking fun that's not really necessary.

00:47:23 ◼   ► So I really didn't like that comment.

00:47:28 ◼   ► It was just poorly delivered, if it should have been delivered at all.

00:47:36 ◼   ► There were no Macs.

00:47:37 ◼   ► I think...

00:47:38 ◼   ► What?

00:47:39 ◼   ► We're gonna...

00:47:40 ◼   ► Buy WWDC, right?

00:47:41 ◼   ► There's got to be something.

00:47:42 ◼   ► that they might do a little event or a quiet event or just an upgrade in

00:47:46 ◼   ► between now and then? What do you think Steven? I think so. I mean unless

00:47:51 ◼   ► they're having some sort of issue it seems like Skylake chips are shipping in

00:47:55 ◼   ► mass to other OEMs. I would think that you know maybe in April you could do a

00:48:01 ◼   ► I don't think you have to do an event I think you can do that as a website

00:48:03 ◼   ► press release like embargo review type deal and I think that'd be fine. I think

00:48:09 ◼   ► June is a long way away and with so much software going on in the summer like

00:48:15 ◼   ► they I mean they've had they had the Mac Pro I think was a notable hardware thing

00:48:18 ◼   ► at WWDC but they've moved a lot of that hardware elsewhere in the year because

00:48:24 ◼   ► they've got OS X, they have iOS, they have tvOS, and they have watchOS to all

00:48:28 ◼   ► contend with now on the WWDC stage so I'm hoping I mean A because I'm in the

00:48:36 ◼   ► market but I just think that June is a long way off hopefully they would be

00:48:40 ◼   ► sooner than that yeah yeah I agree so the Apple watch they've dropped the

00:48:46 ◼   ► price down to $299 that's with the nylon bands right so is that I mean the sport

00:48:51 ◼   ► band I think is still the old price but oh really yes it's just the nylon it's

00:48:56 ◼   ► the I didn't catch that it's when it's matched with the nylon band which is um

00:49:01 ◼   ► I mean I think me that they're cheaper well if you buy them individually they're

00:49:06 ◼   ► the same I think. So I don't know what the deal is there. I mean clearly they're

00:49:10 ◼   ► trying to move them I guess and trying to maybe breathe some life into that but I

00:49:14 ◼   ► think it's great I think $299 is a lot more like mentally that's a lot smaller

00:49:19 ◼   ► number than $399. Yeah. For some reason it you know. My hope here is that this is

00:49:25 ◼   ► reminiscent of the original iPhone and that $299 becomes a starting point for

00:49:29 ◼   ► the next edition. I think it's really hard to go back. I mean yeah they did it

00:49:34 ◼   ► the iPad I guess we'll talk about that but I think once you drop it's got to be

00:49:37 ◼   ► real convincing why you would need to go back up again. Yeah yeah so $299 do the

00:49:44 ◼   ► new nylon bands I'm struggling with the nylon bands mm-hmm image to image place

00:49:50 ◼   ► to place they look good and not good to me I need to see these in person all of

00:49:57 ◼   ► Apple's shots don't appeal to me. I think that... so the shots that they show on the

00:50:04 ◼   ► web pages, are they renders or are they real? They look like renders. They look too sharp

00:50:11 ◼   ► somehow to me. But I don't know. That's what I think. Or like, they're shot in such a way

00:50:16 ◼   ► that they're shot so perfectly they kind of cross into the uncanny valley. And I don't

00:50:22 ◼   ► like them but The Verge had a hands-on and the photos from the hands-on I was

00:50:27 ◼   ► like they look quite nice. I want to go and see these in a store and I will

00:50:33 ◼   ► maybe pick one up. There's definitely a couple of the new sport band colors I

00:50:37 ◼   ► want to see. I like the yellow, I like royal blue and I like the red. I love

00:50:42 ◼   ► that they're doing more leather colors. The leather one I don't really think is

00:50:46 ◼   ► my thing especially with the sport band. The lug mismatching ended up being

00:50:51 ◼   ► something that turned me away from the Milanese in the end after that long long discussion

00:50:57 ◼   ► on this show I decided to not do that but I like that they're doing all that I like

00:51:02 ◼   ► the bands you know I mean it's just a fun little thing and and I'm interested to get

00:51:07 ◼   ► my hands on some more of them building up a real collection I'm basically as bad as

00:51:13 ◼   ► you with your IMAX the bands way less oh really less really how much do those things run

00:51:20 ◼   ► for the weight away you mean like price wise price wise yeah I was talking about

00:51:26 ◼   ► price not weight I've only bought one out of the three that I have and I think

00:51:30 ◼   ► it was like like 80 bucks and then I paid like 30 for shipping so I mean

00:51:35 ◼   ► hundred hundred fifteen bucks about three times the price of the bands

00:51:38 ◼   ► doesn't and storage space and they weigh 41 pounds so actually the later ones

00:51:43 ◼   ► away a little less they I'm just flipping through this they shaved off six

00:51:46 ◼   ► pounds at some point during the iMac G3's life. Way to go guys!

00:51:50 ◼   ► Let's put them on the no-cob diet. Is that what it was?

00:51:54 ◼   ► I don't particularly care about the

00:51:58 ◼   ► watch announcements, you know, it's kinda cool that there's more colors

00:52:03 ◼   ► and that the sport watch is cheaper, but I don't really like the nylon bands

00:52:07 ◼   ► that look kinda ugly to me, maybe, you know, not my style

00:52:10 ◼   ► but I do find it interesting that Apple is now

00:52:13 ◼   ► and officializing what Craig Hockenberry of the Icon Factory calls the reverse crown way

00:52:21 ◼   ► of wearing an Apple Watch.

00:52:23 ◼   ► So if you go see the Apple product shots on the store and on the watch website, you can

00:52:31 ◼   ► now see that Apple has some Apple Watch renders with a crown on the bottom left.

00:52:38 ◼   ► So usually the digital crown is in the top right.

00:52:41 ◼   ► In some shots it's in the bottom left, and again this is because there's a setting that

00:52:46 ◼   ► you can enable to rotate the interface of the watch if you want to wear the Apple Watch

00:52:53 ◼   ► with the crown at the bottom.

00:52:55 ◼   ► It wasn't really official before, I mean there was a setting, but Apple was not making a

00:53:01 ◼   ► big deal out of it, and now they do have renders and fancy product shots with a bunch of Apple

00:53:07 ◼   ► watches, some with the digital crown in the top right, some with the crown in the

00:53:12 ◼   ► bottom left. So, you know, if you're one of those people, know that now Apple

00:53:17 ◼   ► officially forgives you and accepts you as an Apple Watch user. I think you guys

00:53:22 ◼   ► should try it. You wear the Apple Watch this way? Try it. I did when it came out. I

00:53:29 ◼   ► didn't really like it. I think I thought it was kind of weird to use the crown at

00:53:35 ◼   ► the bottom. Crowns go on the right hand side of a watch face for me, like that's where

00:53:39 ◼   ► they go. That's where I'm used to them being. I guess. Yeah, I don't wear a watch, but you

00:53:44 ◼   ► know maybe just when I was a kid and I used to wear watches I remember, you know, the

00:53:48 ◼   ► crowns and the buttons were on the right side. Also for me now, like, I've got the muscle

00:53:52 ◼   ► memory. Yeah. So you know, I haven't worn my Apple Watch in like 10 days, you know,

00:54:01 ◼   ► lately. Didn't really miss it, but I started waiting again yesterday because of the watch

00:54:08 ◼   ► wise update. It doesn't really excite me, you know, everything is so slow. I mean, sure,

00:54:16 ◼   ► I do miss the time, I do miss the looking at the... but you know, it's the fact that

00:54:23 ◼   ► the apps that I use the most don't have Apple Watch versions. And so it's difficult for

00:54:29 ◼   ► me to be excited because the stuff that I needed to do it can't do and so I'm like should it you

00:54:36 ◼   ► know sometimes I forget and lately I forgot from like for like a week it was just there sitting on

00:54:42 ◼   ► the nightstand and I was like oh yes I gotta remember to wear my watch uh we'll see I guess

00:54:48 ◼   ► I want new hardware or new software I don't know but it doesn't do what I needed to do so

00:54:56 ◼   ► It's kind of sad.

00:54:57 ◼   ► I feel like I'm the only one here who really likes their Apple Watch.

00:55:02 ◼   ► Like sometimes in the morning if I haven't put it on, I'm like, "Oh, I need to go put it on."

00:55:09 ◼   ► Like I'm not getting my notifications.

00:55:10 ◼   ► Like I feel kind of like it's just part of my whole little setup that I've got going on here.

00:55:16 ◼   ► It really works for me.

00:55:18 ◼   ► I mean, you know, I mean, remember like I set my devices up in a very specific way.

00:55:24 ◼   ► So much so that they're always on "Do Not Disturb" because of the fact that I have an Apple Watch.

00:55:28 ◼   ► So, you know, when I don't have an Apple Watch on, things can start to get a bit like I just don't get any notifications of any kind.

00:55:35 ◼   ► So I was kind of built it that way. I built the Apple Watch as an important part.

00:55:38 ◼   ► It's like my notifications triage hub or whatever.

00:55:41 ◼   ► So like that's the only way I know that anything's happening.

00:55:44 ◼   ► You know, I think one of the reasons why I'm having this sort of change is because of a...

00:55:52 ◼   ► this is a bit of an off topic, sorry.

00:55:55 ◼   ► But it's because in the past few months,

00:55:58 ◼   ► I've been trying to change the way I deal with work

00:56:03 ◼   ► when I'm out.

00:56:03 ◼   ► You know, when I'm not at home getting work done,

00:56:06 ◼   ► I'm usually like shopping with my girlfriend

00:56:08 ◼   ► and I'm trying to focus on, you know,

00:56:11 ◼   ► I want to get work out of my head.

00:56:13 ◼   ► So what I did is I turned notifications off.

00:56:16 ◼   ► So I don't want to see notifications

00:56:17 ◼   ► because I know that, yes, maybe something is important,

00:56:21 ◼   ► But I don't want to be bothered because I want to try to enjoy, you know, what I'm doing when I'm out.

00:56:29 ◼   ► So not having notifications, you know, when I go out now I usually set my phone to "do not disturb" or set to "mute"

00:56:37 ◼   ► because I don't want to look at it. I don't want to be... I don't want to have the temptation, you know?

00:56:42 ◼   ► I'm sort of forcing myself to not be distracted.

00:56:46 ◼   ► And I know that it sounds awful because I mean, sure, I'm spending time with my girlfriend, I'm not working,

00:56:50 ◼   ► I should be able to do it on my own. But it's that sort of habit, you know, that it's hard

00:56:54 ◼   ► to kick. So I've been trying to sort of isolate myself when I'm not working. And so not having

00:57:01 ◼   ► notifications come constantly, but knowing that, you know, there's someone on my team

00:57:06 ◼   ► taking care of the news or taking care of something when I'm not working, it helps me

00:57:13 ◼   ► enjoy, you know, life more. And so not having the custom nagging on the watch, it's been

00:57:20 ◼   ► kind of relaxing in a way. I don't know.

00:57:25 ◼   ► This is one of the bigger problems with the way that the tools that we use to get our

00:57:32 ◼   ► work done because we have an issue. I mean, we could we could go deep here, but the tools

00:57:38 ◼   ► that we use as people that kind of have independent businesses on the internet

00:57:43 ◼   ► are the same tools that we also use to talk to our friends. So it's like if you

00:57:49 ◼   ► want to talk to people then you have to have the notifications on and then the

00:57:53 ◼   ► notifications also for work like that's where it starts the line starts to get a

00:57:57 ◼   ► little blurred there because you can't just switch off a specific thing and

00:58:01 ◼   ► still get slack messages from me because then they could also be slack messages

00:58:06 ◼   ► is from a developer. Like, you know what I mean? That's an issue, but maybe that's a

00:58:11 ◼   ► conversation for another time.

00:58:12 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:58:13 ◼   ► Alright, let's take a break, talk about the iPhone SE. This week's episode is also brought

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01:00:07 ◼   ► iPhone SE.

01:00:09 ◼   ► It is the new 4 inch iPhone as we expected but maybe what we didn't expect is it is except

01:00:17 ◼   ► for a different chamfer which is now a matte material basically.

01:00:22 ◼   ► It looks exactly the same as the 5s.

01:00:27 ◼   ► And the rumors didn't really say that that was going to be the case, right?

01:00:30 ◼   ► We were always thinking curved glass, there were some rumors that were like "looks like

01:00:34 ◼   ► a small iPhone 6".

01:00:35 ◼   ► Nope.

01:00:36 ◼   ► Looks completely like the 5s.

01:00:38 ◼   ► Rumors were a bit confused.

01:00:40 ◼   ► Seems like it.

01:00:41 ◼   ► Which is rare, I think.

01:00:43 ◼   ► These days.

01:00:44 ◼   ► Everything else, you know, is basically on point.

01:00:47 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:00:48 ◼   ► It's a smaller iPhone, it's got everything, almost everything from the 6s except the D-touch.

01:00:53 ◼   ► And it's not called the 5SE, it's just called the SE, which according to Schiller stands

01:00:58 ◼   ► for Special Edition.

01:00:59 ◼   ► So there you go.

01:01:00 ◼   ► No mystery.

01:01:01 ◼   ► But it's got Apple Pay, you know, it's got a 12 megapixel camera.

01:01:06 ◼   ► Is that right?

01:01:07 ◼   ► Yep.

01:01:08 ◼   ► Yep.

01:01:09 ◼   ► And I think it's got the 5 megapixel front, right, as well?

01:01:12 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:01:13 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:01:14 ◼   ► So it's the 6S chipset and the camera, but no 3D touch display.

01:01:18 ◼   ► Which is interesting to me.

01:01:20 ◼   ► What do you guys think of 3D Touch as an outgo here?

01:01:24 ◼   ► They didn't want to build the sensors for the 4-inch because they don't have them.

01:01:29 ◼   ► My guess is that was a road too far in the re-engineering of that chassis.

01:01:35 ◼   ► Probably.

01:01:36 ◼   ► I mean, what do you guys think about the design being the 5S design?

01:01:41 ◼   ► Like you said, unless you're one of us, you're never going to notice the difference.

01:01:45 ◼   ► It already looks old, right?

01:01:47 ◼   ► And what happens when the iPhone 7 comes out and is assumedly different than the 6s?

01:01:52 ◼   ► Is this going to look even older or have they crossed some sort of threshold into like this

01:01:58 ◼   ► being sort of a more timeless design that you know may hold up better than you know

01:02:04 ◼   ► say the iPhone 3G did?

01:02:06 ◼   ► So here's my story.

01:02:08 ◼   ► Basically you know if you've been listening to this show that I've been talking for weeks

01:02:13 ◼   ► about Adina wanting this right?

01:02:15 ◼   ► She wanted a new phone, she wanted it to be small, she's not too keen on the 6.

01:02:19 ◼   ► I told her all the specifications over iMessage, I was like, it's gonna be just like the 6S

01:02:24 ◼   ► but inside of there, like, it's gonna be fast, the battery's gonna be much improved, it's

01:02:29 ◼   ► gonna have a better camera, you're gonna get live photos, she's like "great!"

01:02:32 ◼   ► She looked at it, she's like "I'm not sure."

01:02:35 ◼   ► No, come on, no, Adina has to buy one now.

01:02:37 ◼   ► The reason that she feels that way is she was hoping for something new.

01:02:41 ◼   ► Because she just looked at her phone and she's like "it's just the same."

01:02:44 ◼   ► She's like, is it lighter at all?

01:02:46 ◼   ► I was like, probably not.

01:02:47 ◼   ► She's like, I don't know.

01:02:49 ◼   ► So she wants to go and see it now.

01:02:51 ◼   ► So she may still go with this, but she now wants to go to a store like we were thinking

01:02:55 ◼   ► we were just going to get this sight unseen, like we were just going to buy it.

01:02:58 ◼   ► But she wants to now go to a store and look at it and play with it.

01:03:02 ◼   ► And then maybe also play with a success again and see what her final decision will be.

01:03:07 ◼   ► And I get that because it is that like, I don't want something that looks old feeling.

01:03:13 ◼   ► Yeah, the power of new, you know, has to look new.

01:03:16 ◼   ► Sure.

01:03:17 ◼   ► Makes sense.

01:03:18 ◼   ► For me, the story is very similar except the ending.

01:03:21 ◼   ► My wife has a 6S that we got at Christmas and she wants to go back.

01:03:26 ◼   ► In fact, I'll be ordering an iPhone SE this week for her.

01:03:29 ◼   ► And so I had the same deal.

01:03:30 ◼   ► I just told her, "Hey, it is basically the phone you have now, minus 3D touch, which

01:03:34 ◼   ► she doesn't use, in that smaller form factor.

01:03:37 ◼   ► And it's exactly like the 5S you had."

01:03:39 ◼   ► And not only was she pleased about that, the first question was, "Hey, do we still have

01:03:43 ◼   ► my old iPhone case?"

01:03:46 ◼   ► And that really sort of like, you know, it's easy for us as enthusiasts to not really understand

01:03:53 ◼   ► all of the things that go into these sorts of decisions for people.

01:03:56 ◼   ► But for her, it was like, "Oh, great.

01:03:57 ◼   ► I even have a case for it that already work, right?

01:03:59 ◼   ► Like, let's do it."

01:04:01 ◼   ► And I think the case compatibility thing is maybe a big deal.

01:04:05 ◼   ► And they're talking about people who may be upgrading from an older phone, they could

01:04:10 ◼   ► just continue to use their 5, 5S accessories.

01:04:13 ◼   ► And then they're talking about this phone being really popular for people who are new

01:04:17 ◼   ► to the platform.

01:04:18 ◼   ► And what was the number?

01:04:20 ◼   ► 30 million 4-inch phones sold last year?

01:04:23 ◼   ► That's 30 million old phones sold last year.

01:04:25 ◼   ► That's crazy, right?

01:04:26 ◼   ► Like, you can see why they're making this device.

01:04:29 ◼   ► I mean it's only a fraction of two hundred and three million iPhones I think sold in

01:04:35 ◼   ► total but it's a large number still.

01:04:38 ◼   ► But it's but think about it if you know they made the argument that the foreign phone is

01:04:43 ◼   ► popular with people coming to the platform for the first time do you want your newest

01:04:48 ◼   ► users to be on something that's two to three years old tech wise?

01:04:52 ◼   ► No no no.

01:04:53 ◼   ► You don't want them to have the good camera and the speed and Apple pay being a huge addition

01:04:58 ◼   ► into this phone, like I totally understand

01:05:00 ◼   ► why they're making it and while it's not for me,

01:05:02 ◼   ► it is for some people in my life

01:05:03 ◼   ► and I think it'll be popular.

01:05:05 ◼   ► You know, I've got some questions

01:05:07 ◼   ► about the longevity of the design,

01:05:08 ◼   ► but I think that'll pan out in time

01:05:09 ◼   ► or it may be that only we care about that

01:05:12 ◼   ► and maybe Adina is like kind of in the middle,

01:05:14 ◼   ► but a lot of people, my wife included,

01:05:16 ◼   ► like she saw it as a benefit that it was,

01:05:19 ◼   ► you know, basically the same as her 5S

01:05:21 ◼   ► and you know, she's picking a different color,

01:05:24 ◼   ► she hasn't had silver before,

01:05:25 ◼   ► she wants to go silver this time,

01:05:26 ◼   ► But other than that, I don't think people are gonna care

01:05:30 ◼   ► as much as maybe we care.

01:05:32 ◼   ► - The way we left it was that she said,

01:05:34 ◼   ► maybe I'll get one, a different color,

01:05:36 ◼   ► and then that will, the trick that we use, right,

01:05:39 ◼   ► to make it feel new, she might go with that.

01:05:42 ◼   ► Basically, it's just because it looks like

01:05:44 ◼   ► the one that she's got, she now wants to go and feel it

01:05:47 ◼   ► and play around with it.

01:05:48 ◼   ► And I would be surprised if she ended up

01:05:50 ◼   ► going with a success, but it was just interesting to me

01:05:53 ◼   ► that it was such a sure deal, and then it's like,

01:05:55 ◼   ► "Oh, but now I feel like I have the same phone."

01:05:58 ◼   ► The problem here, Myke, is that you overhyped your own girlfriend.

01:06:02 ◼   ► Because you've been an unreliable source of rumors.

01:06:05 ◼   ► I am.

01:06:06 ◼   ► If she was here right now, she would tell you that the overhyping is real.

01:06:10 ◼   ► [laughs]

01:06:11 ◼   ► It's not your fault, Myke.

01:06:12 ◼   ► Just in general daily life, I overhype constantly.

01:06:16 ◼   ► [laughs]

01:06:19 ◼   ► So this is good. I mean, what, $3.99 for 16GB? Okay.

01:06:24 ◼   ► I want to ask you two. Jason asked me this question.

01:06:28 ◼   ► So Federico, 16 gigabyte in the iPhone SE for $399.

01:06:33 ◼   ► Is that a problem? 16 gig?

01:06:37 ◼   ► Or does it bother you?

01:06:39 ◼   ► It bothers me.

01:06:40 ◼   ► Okay.

01:06:41 ◼   ► Right? It bothers me because 16 gigabytes is just ridiculous.

01:06:45 ◼   ► I mean, I get it. It's cheaper.

01:06:47 ◼   ► It's under $400.

01:06:49 ◼   ► It's under, you know, the threshold of $500, which is good news.

01:06:53 ◼   ► I think it's a better attempt at a cheaper, not cheap, cheaper phone than the iPhone 5c.

01:07:00 ◼   ► You know, it looks more classy, it's got the latest tech, but the 16GB just bothers

01:07:06 ◼   ► me at a conceptual level, you know? Because it's just, it's not a real... I'm just

01:07:12 ◼   ► going on the record, I don't call it a real iOS experience. When you use a... when you're

01:07:17 ◼   ► selling people a 16GB phone, the problem isn't people buying these, the problem is Apple

01:07:24 ◼   ► selling 16GB iPhones. You're giving them an inferior experience, just because they cannot

01:07:30 ◼   ► enjoy the benefits of having more storage. You know, more video, more games, more apps.

01:07:36 ◼   ► And I say this because I see my friends, you know, they're on a budget, but they still

01:07:41 ◼   ► want to use an iPhone, and the base iPhone, which is the iPhone that they can afford,

01:07:46 ◼   ► which is the iPhone that Apple sells, at 16GB, and they're constantly, constantly battling

01:07:52 ◼   ► with the deleting apps, deleting games, deleting videos. That's not a good experience. That's

01:07:57 ◼   ► just ridiculous. And I feel like the problem is in people, you know, because from our position,

01:08:02 ◼   ► where tech people, we have the money set aside for buying these gadgets, and we're always

01:08:10 ◼   ► Too often, too quick to judge and say, "Well, you know, those people, they are, you know,

01:08:15 ◼   ► shame on them, they're dumb because they're buying the 16GB iPhones."

01:08:22 ◼   ► But that's not the problem.

01:08:23 ◼   ► The problem is at the beginning, at the source, which is Apple making these phones, let me

01:08:27 ◼   ► tell you, I don't buy the argument that Apple knows, that Apple, you know, they look at

01:08:33 ◼   ► the data, they look at the customer feedback, I don't buy that anymore.

01:08:36 ◼   ► 16 gigabytes really bothers me because it's no way to enjoy an iPhone and it's no way

01:08:41 ◼   ► to sell an iPhone. So it's good news that it's cheaper, but I don't accept the 16 base

01:08:48 ◼   ► model anymore.

01:08:49 ◼   ► Steven?

01:08:50 ◼   ► I mean, we're going to be buying the 64 gig, but I tend to agree with Federico, but with

01:08:59 ◼   ► the caveat that I think some, I'll get the way some people I know use their phones and

01:09:05 ◼   ► it maybe isn't a big deal but I think that overall it's a they should move forward from this and

01:09:12 ◼   ► you know maybe to hit that price point they're doing it whatever but I will be extremely

01:09:16 ◼   ► disappointed the next flagship phone still carries that 16 gig badge on the back.

01:09:21 ◼   ► In this phone the SE it doesn't bother me as much just in this phone because it's about budget it's

01:09:32 ◼   ► the low end of the market.

01:09:34 ◼   ► Yeah, with the 12 megapixel camera that takes HD photos.

01:09:37 ◼   ► Yeah, it's a 4K video.

01:09:39 ◼   ► I know it's ridiculous, right?

01:09:41 ◼   ► Like I know all of that stuff is ridiculous.

01:09:43 ◼   ► I wish that it was more,

01:09:45 ◼   ► but like it doesn't upset me to the level

01:09:47 ◼   ► that you guys are upset.

01:09:49 ◼   ► Like it doesn't upset me if they try and do this again

01:09:52 ◼   ► in the iPhone 7.

01:09:53 ◼   ► Like if we're coming to the iPhone 7 with 16 gigabyte base,

01:09:56 ◼   ► like it's just ridiculous.

01:09:57 ◼   ► Just in this one phone,

01:09:59 ◼   ► I'm just a little less annoyed about it, personally, than I think you guys and other people.

01:10:07 ◼   ► It just doesn't really bother me so much considering it's $100 more for $64.

01:10:12 ◼   ► So it's not a massive jump to get a really good storage.

01:10:17 ◼   ► And I think if it helps keep it under that $400, then I think that's good because I think

01:10:24 ◼   ► it should be there and whatever.

01:10:27 ◼   ► The other thing, the other iPhone related thing I guess is iOS 9.3 is now out.

01:10:34 ◼   ► I guess there's nothing really new to say that I suppose we haven't already spoken about

01:10:38 ◼   ► on the show about 9.3.

01:10:40 ◼   ► Probably.

01:10:41 ◼   ► Yeah, we've talked about Notes, Night Shift, the iPads and education.

01:10:46 ◼   ► I think we covered the main points.

01:10:49 ◼   ► There's a bunch of tweaks, you know, especially with Apple Music, with a few system apps,

01:10:54 ◼   ► but there's some changes, some more 3D touch quick actions I guess is good news, but yeah,

01:11:00 ◼   ► I think we covered the main points. And you know it's a pretty stable release,

01:11:04 ◼   ► I'm pretty happy with it on all my devices, yeah I think it's good, I'm happy that it's out and

01:11:13 ◼   ► everything's running well on it I think. Yeah and one of the things that Apple doesn't say that I

01:11:21 ◼   ► heard from a few friends, is that they try to increase performance in some areas of the

01:11:29 ◼   ► OS, especially Control Center, to bring it back to 60 frames per second on every device,

01:11:35 ◼   ► which is nice. It's a good release, again, surprisingly feature-rich, given that it's

01:11:44 ◼   ► a couple of months away from WWDC, we already had 9.1, 9.2, and we were not expecting 9.3,

01:11:52 ◼   ► which is usually when Apple likes to wrap things up and to say "time to pack it up

01:11:58 ◼   ► and go to the next OS". They usually do bug fixes and a few maintenance type of things.

01:12:03 ◼   ► It's sad that we got brand new features here. So it was interesting, but we covered

01:12:09 ◼   ► it and it's a good release. Especially if you're on an older device, I recommend to

01:12:16 ◼   ► upgrade because things are supposedly faster on the older side of things.

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01:14:13 ◼   ► for their continued support of this show and Relay FM. So following in the steps

01:14:19 ◼   ► of products that we mostly knew were coming a new 9.7 inch iPad Pro was

01:14:25 ◼   ► announced and it is more or less the 12.9 inch tablet that the three of us enjoy. It

01:14:30 ◼   ► does the smart connector for the keyboard, pencil support, the new four

01:14:35 ◼   ► speaker system and it comes with the A9X. It does come with 2 gigs of RAM which is a

01:14:41 ◼   ► step down but it is obviously a lot fewer pixels to push so maybe that kind

01:14:46 ◼   ► of comes out in the wash. And it's um you know it's it's a step up from the Air 2

01:14:52 ◼   ► so basically this thing starts at $599 the Air 2 is still around now at $399 so

01:14:57 ◼   ► for the first time $499 price point is empty which is interesting. It's you know

01:15:03 ◼   ► it's I think Apple's pitching it as an upgrade from the air 2 but also hey you

01:15:09 ◼   ► want all this stuff that the iPad Pro has but you want it in a smaller form

01:15:13 ◼   ► factor that you know we have that now in many ways it's treating the iPad line in

01:15:17 ◼   ► my opinion more like the MacBook Air the MacBook Pro where you have a couple

01:15:22 ◼   ► different machines that are more or less identical but you're going in and

01:15:26 ◼   ► choosing by size you know I think there's a little bit of a question as

01:15:30 ◼   ► to what's going on with the iPad Air line, is the iPad Air 2, which said did not get

01:15:35 ◼   ► an update, still for sales it's been for a long time, is that going to just kind of fade

01:15:38 ◼   ► away and the pro can maybe come down in price?

01:15:41 ◼   ► I think that's kind of to be determined, but a new price point, new product, and you know,

01:15:48 ◼   ► bringing a lot of that stuff that we've enjoyed on our bigger iPads down to the more popular

01:15:52 ◼   ► tenant size.

01:15:54 ◼   ► What do you guys think?

01:15:58 ◼   ► I have a problem with the True Tone display thing.

01:16:03 ◼   ► - Okay.

01:16:04 ◼   ► - So this is an idea of, I don't know what,

01:16:09 ◼   ► like better color reproduction, right, in certain areas

01:16:12 ◼   ► and the display tech itself has got a higher color gamut?

01:16:17 ◼   ► - Yeah, so it's a couple of things.

01:16:20 ◼   ► So the iOS devices and laptops and everything

01:16:24 ◼   ► have had ambient light sensors for years

01:16:26 ◼   ► and they're using that now to detect the color temperature in the room.

01:16:30 ◼   ► And if the color temperature is warmer,

01:16:32 ◼   ► it will match the color temperature of the display.

01:16:35 ◼   ► So it's kind of riding on the back of what Night Shift is doing a little bit of say,

01:16:39 ◼   ► hey, we want to go warmer or cooler to match the room and Apple pits it as

01:16:43 ◼   ► you know, if you have a sheet of paper, the sheet of paper matches the room.

01:16:45 ◼   ► But if you're in a dark room that's sort of, you know,

01:16:48 ◼   ► I think they use example like sitting next to a fire.

01:16:51 ◼   ► You don't want your iPad to be blasting bright blue light in your eyes.

01:16:54 ◼   ► You want it to be warm and toned down to feel more in tune with the room or whatever language

01:17:01 ◼   ► they used.

01:17:02 ◼   ► So I think it's more about hijacking night shift in a way than necessarily the larger

01:17:07 ◼   ► color gamut.

01:17:09 ◼   ► I think the hardware difference is the sensors, not necessarily something built into that

01:17:15 ◼   ► gamut, but I could be wrong.

01:17:17 ◼   ► Yeah, I think they've put more sensors in it to make the ambient stuff better.

01:17:21 ◼   ► Yes, it's the only device with that particular ambient light sensor is how I understand it.

01:17:28 ◼   ► When you couple this with the difference in the camera, I put a screenshot in the show

01:17:33 ◼   ► notes. I was looking in the Apple Store app today and I opened the iPad Pro page and they

01:17:39 ◼   ► have a breakdown of the features of the two devices and it's so confusing. So you have

01:17:48 ◼   ► Two devices in the same line.

01:17:50 ◼   ► One of them's bigger than the other one.

01:17:53 ◼   ► But the smaller one has got a camera of higher megapixels,

01:17:58 ◼   ► and it's got a better FaceTime,

01:18:00 ◼   ► and it's got the retina flash.

01:18:02 ◼   ► And it's talking about true tone display on the resolution.

01:18:05 ◼   ► I think it's just confusing,

01:18:08 ◼   ► and I'm not sure why they decided to put these features

01:18:13 ◼   ► in the small one and not the big one.

01:18:14 ◼   ► I'm confused about it, and it feels weird to me

01:18:18 ◼   ► to be introducing a new product in this line, and then immediately splitting the line on

01:18:28 ◼   ► features?

01:18:29 ◼   ► I don't agree with it, but I think I can explain their reasoning, maybe. I think the perspective

01:18:36 ◼   ► they're coming from is, the new 9.7" iPad is a smaller iPad, people carry this type

01:18:45 ◼   ► of iPad around more than they do with the bigger iPad Pro. So because it's more portable,

01:18:52 ◼   ► because people use it more in sort of mobile scenarios, they walk around, they take pictures,

01:19:00 ◼   ► it's a more mobile iPad, so we gotta put a better camera in it, and we can have this

01:19:07 ◼   ► display technology that adapts to different rooms, to different scenarios, because people

01:19:14 ◼   ► move around with this type of iPad more, so people change contexts with this type of 10"

01:19:21 ◼   ► iPad more than they do with the 13" type of iPad. I think that's their angle. And they

01:19:27 ◼   ► also kinda say this on the website, they say "and because people love to carry their 9.7"

01:19:37 ◼   ► iPad around, we had a display technology for better color, whatever. I think that's their

01:19:45 ◼   ► angle because it's a smaller iPad, people use it more in mobile situations, so we do

01:19:53 ◼   ► the better camera and we do the better display. I think that's what they want to say at least.

01:19:59 ◼   ► I can totally understand that logic. That is the logic that led to the decisions. I

01:20:04 ◼   ► see that, that I think you are spot on. It's just weird to me when you look at the pages.

01:20:11 ◼   ► If you think about when the iPad Mini was introduced, it was like same specs, you just

01:20:17 ◼   ► picked the screen size. I think that would have made a lot more sense here considering

01:20:21 ◼   ► they did things for the iPad Pro 9.7 which are a bit weird like shrinking the keyboard

01:20:28 ◼   ► down. So the software keyboard is not as good but then they actually, the smart keyboard

01:20:34 ◼   ► right? They made a smaller one of those even though it maybe doesn't make as much sense

01:20:38 ◼   ► on this device as it does on the bigger one. So like you're trying to make them the same

01:20:43 ◼   ► and then splitting them at the last minute anyway. It's like they went on like a just

01:20:46 ◼   ► a sharp right turn. For features that are, I don't know how important. So maybe the camera

01:20:53 ◼   ► I can kind of say fine like whatever but I don't know if they needed to do this True

01:21:00 ◼   ► tone thing now. They didn't have to do it. No one asked for it. It's great that it's

01:21:05 ◼   ► there, but you could have just had this as a feature for the next revision of the iPad

01:21:10 ◼   ► Pro line in a year or two down the line. It's just strange to me, and I think it adds complexity,

01:21:16 ◼   ► because now it's like you're not just choosing screen size, which I think should be the only

01:21:19 ◼   ► choice here. You're also choosing other features.

01:21:24 ◼   ► Like RAM.

01:21:25 ◼   ► Yeah. But that's hidden though, right?

01:21:28 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean I get what both of you are saying, but there is a little sense in me that Federico's

01:21:36 ◼   ► discussion is a little bit of a backronym, that they sort of worked their way to that,

01:21:40 ◼   ► and it may be as simple as the technology wasn't ready, they wanted it but it wasn't

01:21:44 ◼   ► ready, or if this does leverage things in night mode, that the software wasn't ready.

01:21:49 ◼   ► And that I can buy just as easily as I can buy what Federico said.

01:21:53 ◼   ► I think there's a lot of factors that go into this.

01:21:57 ◼   ► I mean, this is not the first time that Apple's done this sort of thing right where they know they sort of split something

01:22:02 ◼   ► you know sooner than you would like or

01:22:05 ◼   ► You know, there's that there's an awkward period

01:22:09 ◼   ► I think my favorite example is that they they rev like the iMac g5 and put an iSight camera in it and then release the

01:22:16 ◼   ► Intel iMac like

01:22:18 ◼   ► 90 days later

01:22:20 ◼   ► Very short period time you could buy an iMac g5 with an iSight and if you did

01:22:23 ◼   ► You were kind of screwed because the Intel one was much better

01:22:26 ◼   ► I mean Apple does this and I think that they

01:22:28 ◼   ► For like it's easy to ascribe to them

01:22:32 ◼   ► Adjectives like being thoughtful and like seeing down the road. I think sometimes they don't and sometimes they just say hey this is it ready?

01:22:39 ◼   ► Now it's ready. Okay. Now it is let's let's put it in but I agree with you guys

01:22:43 ◼   ► It definitely doesn't feel good as like an iPad Pro owner, but at the same time

01:22:47 ◼   ► I'm really glad my iPad doesn't have a camera bump. So I guess that's a trade-off. I'm willing to accept

01:22:52 ◼   ► Okay, let me let me ask you guys this this is a bigger question, but I want to ask you both

01:22:57 ◼   ► So is it maybe?

01:23:00 ◼   ► the time to accept that the age of the

01:23:05 ◼   ► Simple product line is over that Apple is such a big company selling

01:23:10 ◼   ► Devices to so many diverse people and countries and you know, you know different types of market segments

01:23:20 ◼   ► That it's just not feasible anymore to imagine Apple with two computers, two phones and two tablets?

01:23:26 ◼   ► I think it's inevitable that a company of their size would have the amount of products that they have.

01:23:34 ◼   ► Like it gets confusing and I think one of the reasons it gets confusing is because

01:23:39 ◼   ► Apple's really bad at naming in a large product line.

01:23:45 ◼   ► Like they try and keep it clean, but in keeping it clean make it difficult

01:23:51 ◼   ► Like in their own video about the iPad Pro they call this iPad Pro

01:23:56 ◼   ► multiple names

01:23:58 ◼   ► Yeah

01:24:00 ◼   ► Like it doesn't have a set name that they give it

01:24:03 ◼   ► One moment is the new iPad Pro and then it's the iPad Pro 9.7

01:24:09 ◼   ► Like they don't give them the clear names because they have like such a limited set of names that they're willing to draw from

01:24:17 ◼   ► So I think that doesn't help them and I think it makes the problem seem worse than it is like

01:24:25 ◼   ► Earlier in the show we were talking about 1 billion

01:24:29 ◼   ► devices

01:24:31 ◼   ► You can't just have everybody choose from two things exactly. Yeah, but that's crazy

01:24:36 ◼   ► like it's obviously not a billion people it's let's say half a billion people

01:24:42 ◼   ► let's just say I mean it's not that it's much bigger it's probably like three

01:24:44 ◼   ► quarters but I want the iPad Pro I don't want the iPad Air I don't want the 9.7

01:24:51 ◼   ► iPad Pro I want the one that I have and I'm happy that they make it so I'm happy

01:24:56 ◼   ► that they split the line into more products now I just think that they have

01:25:02 ◼   ► ways to go to still to make it clearer from a branding and naming perspective

01:25:08 ◼   ► and to make it clearer on features and again that goes back to what we were

01:25:13 ◼   ► talking about earlier about again like the hard disk drives in the iMacs like

01:25:17 ◼   ► that is a level of complexity in that product decision that shouldn't be there

01:25:22 ◼   ► like you shouldn't even make that a question in people's mind like if they

01:25:27 ◼   ► want to downgrade their Mac and put a hard drive in it to save money great but

01:25:32 ◼   ► Like, when you put them in your store window, you don't put hard drives as one of the configuration

01:25:38 ◼   ► options.

01:25:39 ◼   ► It just makes no sense.

01:25:40 ◼   ► Like, I think that they have so much stuff that they have to do, like they lose it in

01:25:44 ◼   ► some areas.

01:25:45 ◼   ► I think this is one of those, again, like you've had this product out for a few months,

01:25:50 ◼   ► there's now another one, but you put them side by side, you list their features, and

01:25:55 ◼   ► like it looks like a... it makes the buying decision more confusing.

01:26:00 ◼   ► So what you're saying is, part of that is a name problem, just because the names are

01:26:06 ◼   ► kind of weird.

01:26:07 ◼   ► And the other part is, there are some features that are maybe too old for them to be a valid

01:26:16 ◼   ► choice at this point.

01:26:19 ◼   ► And you're just making people confused.

01:26:21 ◼   ► I actually think part of it is, this kind of sounds weird so bear with me for a moment,

01:26:26 ◼   ► is them having a little bit too much pride in their product innovation.

01:26:32 ◼   ► They put the True Tone display out now because it's ready and they like it and they think

01:26:35 ◼   ► it's great, when they could have waited.

01:26:38 ◼   ► But they want to have it out because it's awesome, but you could have just waited and

01:26:44 ◼   ► it would have been fine.

01:26:45 ◼   ► Would you regret shipping the True Tone display now or not shipping it?

01:26:51 ◼   ► Because to me it seems more like it's more of a problem for you or for me because we

01:26:55 ◼   ► don't have the True Tone Display on the iPad Pro that we like, then it is for people who

01:26:59 ◼   ► do want the small iPad Pro.

01:27:01 ◼   ► So much of this about the True Tone Display is laced in the fact that I'm throwing my

01:27:06 ◼   ► toys out of the pram because everybody's getting something that I don't have.

01:27:10 ◼   ► But it is one of those things where it's like "I just bought this.

01:27:14 ◼   ► Like I just bought it."

01:27:16 ◼   ► It wasn't a year ago, but it was what, like three months ago?

01:27:20 ◼   ► November.

01:27:21 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:27:22 ◼   ► Okay, so maybe a little bit longer.

01:27:23 ◼   ► Five.

01:27:24 ◼   ► Five.

01:27:25 ◼   ► We're getting to the sixth month area, which maybe means it's not so bad.

01:27:29 ◼   ► But you know, it's just like, I just wonder, like, my main thing about it now is just,

01:27:34 ◼   ► it was looking at that screenshot today.

01:27:36 ◼   ► I mean, it's actually laid out pretty badly on the page anyway.

01:27:41 ◼   ► It is, it is.

01:27:42 ◼   ► But like, you look at it, it's like, oh, one of these is a whole line longer.

01:27:46 ◼   ► There's different numbers all over the place.

01:27:48 ◼   ► There must be some differences.

01:27:49 ◼   ► Yeah, like I looked at it, I was like, what's happening?

01:27:53 ◼   ► I did the same yesterday.

01:27:55 ◼   ► It's like, just tighten it up.

01:27:59 ◼   ► Just keep it tight.

01:28:01 ◼   ► They've always had that issue, and I

01:28:02 ◼   ► think it's sort of inherent to the subject matter when

01:28:05 ◼   ► the differences are technical.

01:28:06 ◼   ► How do you explain that?

01:28:08 ◼   ► And even when they do, it's like, True Tone Display,

01:28:10 ◼   ► it's like, well, what does that actually mean if I haven't

01:28:12 ◼   ► already read the product page?

01:28:15 ◼   ► I think their problem is they are a systemically small

01:28:18 ◼   ► product line company with a big product line.

01:28:21 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:28:22 ◼   ► I think part of Apple still thinks they have that four product grid in place.

01:28:25 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah.

01:28:27 ◼   ► I was just about to say that some people, either within Apple or outside Apple,

01:28:31 ◼   ► still have some sort of fascination with the Steve Jobs grid of four products.

01:28:36 ◼   ► But it's not that way anymore, clearly.

01:28:38 ◼   ► And maybe the other part of the problem is that sometimes the names are just too fancy.

01:28:43 ◼   ► I mean, I know it sounds dumb, but call it the small iPad Pro and the big iPad Pros,

01:28:48 ◼   ► people can understand.

01:28:49 ◼   ► iPad Pro and iPad Pro Mini, it's a mouthful, but that really would have told you what they

01:28:55 ◼   ► were.

01:28:56 ◼   ► You know, true tone display, I mean, just call it, you know, better color display. I

01:29:02 ◼   ► know that they sound kind of dumb, but people want to like, look at a table and know what

01:29:08 ◼   ► it means. You know, I'm looking, true tone display, okay, what does it mean true tone?

01:29:12 ◼   ► You know, I'm saying tone, what's a tone, you know? Are we talking about music? You

01:29:16 ◼   ► That kind of stuff. People don't understand. And maybe sometimes, while they do fail, to

01:29:23 ◼   ► an extent, at presentation. You're showing two lists side by side, there's no easy way

01:29:29 ◼   ► to see what's different. Sometimes they do have an over-complex naming matrix. So they

01:29:37 ◼   ► have these fancy names and what do they even mean. And maybe the other part of the problem

01:29:44 ◼   ► is with us, that many of us in the tech scene, we do like pretty tables, we do like neat

01:29:55 ◼   ► lists, you know, we do like to have it simple, you know, it's either computer A, computer

01:30:01 ◼   ► B, phone 1, phone 2, we're done. But, you know, these companies, it's not just Apple,

01:30:08 ◼   ► Microsoft, Google, Amazon, they do sell across the globe.

01:30:14 ◼   ► And people are different.

01:30:17 ◼   ► The world is not the valley.

01:30:21 ◼   ► The world is vast and large, and different people

01:30:24 ◼   ► need different things.

01:30:25 ◼   ► And it's almost absurd that we have to say this.

01:30:29 ◼   ► But Apple's product line is not made for Silicon Valley.

01:30:34 ◼   ► I think that's safe to say.

01:30:36 ◼   ► And so it kind of makes sense, you know, to have...

01:30:40 ◼   ► There's a tweet going around, it's kind of viral,

01:30:43 ◼   ► of someone saying, you know,

01:30:45 ◼   ► "When Steve Jobs came back to Apple,

01:30:47 ◼   ► he needed to simplify the product line."

01:30:49 ◼   ► The big difference is, you know,

01:30:51 ◼   ► Apple now sells to billions of people,

01:30:53 ◼   ► and when Steve Jobs came back, they were almost bankrupt.

01:30:57 ◼   ► So that's just a tiny difference.

01:30:59 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think that referring it to that now

01:31:02 ◼   ► is a bit weird, like I don't know.

01:31:03 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's a bit weird.

01:31:04 ◼   ► - But Apple do it themselves though, right?

01:31:06 ◼   ► was at WWDC last year when they showed that thing of all the products on the side and

01:31:11 ◼   ► they're like, "This is all we sell. It's one slide."

01:31:13 ◼   ► Kind of.

01:31:14 ◼   ► Yeah. So there's 19 iPads back there.

01:31:17 ◼   ► You've just laid 19 up and we can only see one, right? If you shifted one, you'd start

01:31:22 ◼   ► to see them all like dominoes in the distance. But this is what I mean. They are the small

01:31:29 ◼   ► product line company with a big product line. They just can't seem to break that. We've

01:31:33 ◼   ► got such a huge diversion.

01:31:35 ◼   ► I would say there's one last thing to sort of,

01:31:38 ◼   ► well, one and a half little things left to consider is one--

01:31:41 ◼   ► - Two things.

01:31:42 ◼   ► - Two things.

01:31:43 ◼   ► One, when Apple has introduced new hardware features

01:31:47 ◼   ► to iOS devices, they generally do it one at a time.

01:31:50 ◼   ► So like, even today, 3D Touch and Touch ID

01:31:52 ◼   ► still only on one phone.

01:31:54 ◼   ► When they added, I mean, that's still an example

01:31:59 ◼   ► I can think of, but there are other examples, right?

01:32:01 ◼   ► They move sort of slowly in this area,

01:32:04 ◼   ► And maybe that's a yield thing,

01:32:06 ◼   ► maybe it's that they wanna make sure it sticks, who knows?

01:32:09 ◼   ► But secondly, again, like what I talked about

01:32:12 ◼   ► when we opened the segment,

01:32:14 ◼   ► like they have moved into treating the iPad like a notebook

01:32:17 ◼   ► or like a computer, like the Mac.

01:32:19 ◼   ► And there's a 21 1/2 inch and a 27 inch iMac.

01:32:23 ◼   ► And there's a whole bunch of range in there

01:32:26 ◼   ► and you can customize it to a degree,

01:32:28 ◼   ► but there's one device and two classes.

01:32:32 ◼   ► And I think really that they are just trying to treat the iPad differently.

01:32:36 ◼   ► They treat it like the iPhone for so long and clearly that doesn't work.

01:32:39 ◼   ► And now we have the iPad air two, which is, you know, when they are to come out

01:32:44 ◼   ► 2014, I guess a year and a half old now and they haven't updated it, but that's

01:32:49 ◼   ► fine because it's still a really capable tablet and maybe they are slowing it down

01:32:54 ◼   ► and are treating it differently because their current path hasn't worked.

01:32:58 ◼   ► And if this is, you know, it's confusing now,

01:33:02 ◼   ► but I think ultimately, like maybe we're coming at this

01:33:05 ◼   ► from the iPhone perspective,

01:33:07 ◼   ► and we should be coming at it from the Mac and saying,

01:33:09 ◼   ► hey, you know what you want to map a care of which size?

01:33:11 ◼   ► And you know what, even between the 11 and 13 share,

01:33:14 ◼   ► there are differences.

01:33:15 ◼   ► And this is, feels weird right now

01:33:18 ◼   ► because it's still kind of new to the iPad line.

01:33:20 ◼   ► But my guess is that in a couple of years

01:33:22 ◼   ► that this will feel kind of like how the iPad's always been.

01:33:25 ◼   ► But we are in this transition of,

01:33:28 ◼   ► not necessarily products even, but a transition of language around the iPad

01:33:31 ◼   ► and Apple hasn't figured all that out yet. Like you said, they call it different

01:33:34 ◼   ► things at different points. But I think they'll get there and I think that

01:33:39 ◼   ► ultimately, whether this works or not, I don't know, but I think ultimately it will

01:33:43 ◼   ► sort of congeal into something that makes more sense for more people.

01:33:49 ◼   ► Alright, so the camera has a bump. It does. It has a picture lens. Matthew

01:33:56 ◼   ► Pansarino took some photos and a little video to try and indicate the fact that

01:34:01 ◼   ► when laid out on a desk the bump doesn't seem to make the iPad wobble. This is

01:34:09 ◼   ► like a quick sidebar. There doesn't seem to be an embargo on these products which

01:34:13 ◼   ► is really weird. Interesting yeah. I don't know what that means I assume it's just

01:34:20 ◼   ► because they're kind of visent like these aren't like massive products. Yeah

01:34:24 ◼   ► Yeah, just do whatever.

01:34:26 ◼   ► Just like whatever, take pictures, just go crazy.

01:34:29 ◼   ► Maybe Apple are testing this approach with these products.

01:34:33 ◼   ► What happens if you just say like, "Three, two, one, go!"

01:34:36 ◼   ► And the first one to write the review is the winner.

01:34:39 ◼   ► I don't know what you win, but you win something.

01:34:42 ◼   ► I'm surprised that we haven't already seen a review today from a big site.

01:34:45 ◼   ► Seriously, that's a surprise to me that there hasn't been one yet.

01:34:49 ◼   ► Maybe it's like an arms race.

01:34:53 ◼   ► the new smaller keyboard. There's a bunch of cases, smart cases and smart covers for

01:34:59 ◼   ► the 9.7 inch iPad Pro that are in a load of lovely colors. The 12.9, still gray and white.

01:35:06 ◼   ► I don't know what's going on there.

01:35:09 ◼   ► Makes me sad.

01:35:10 ◼   ► Yeah, it makes me very sad.

01:35:11 ◼   ► Yeah, because the big one is for work and work is all gray and serious.

01:35:15 ◼   ► It's the fun professional iPad, the serious professional iPad.

01:35:19 ◼   ► Yes.

01:35:20 ◼   ► you layouts for the keyboard yet? Federico, did Apple tell you this or was it the software

01:35:24 ◼   ► keyboard they said would have international layout?

01:35:27 ◼   ► The smart keyboard would have international layouts, but it doesn't seem to be the case

01:35:31 ◼   ► yet.

01:35:32 ◼   ► That has not happened, has it?

01:35:33 ◼   ► Nope.

01:35:34 ◼   ► Nope. Okay, that's good to know. Let's talk about this USB camera adapter. Phil Schiller

01:35:39 ◼   ► called out on stage that you could power a mic from this new USB camera adapter. So I

01:35:47 ◼   ► I just wanted to address this with you guys.

01:35:49 ◼   ► Uh, there's still other stuff that we need.

01:35:53 ◼   ► Once again.

01:35:54 ◼   ► Yes.

01:35:54 ◼   ► Okay.

01:35:55 ◼   ► This is a significant step forward in being able to produce podcasts on an iPad.

01:36:01 ◼   ► Because in theory, I could use the microphone equipment that I currently use.

01:36:08 ◼   ► That could go the same with all of us on our iPads now, which we couldn't do before.

01:36:12 ◼   ► Cause we have boxes that need to be powered.

01:36:14 ◼   ► It'd be great for voiceover stuff, right?

01:36:16 ◼   ► you're recording something locally, singing or doing video work or something, it's great.

01:36:21 ◼   ► Because now you can use basically any USB hub in theory. I mean I don't know how powerful this is.

01:36:25 ◼   ► I'm gonna try it. I ordered one of these USB adapters. I'm gonna try it with my USB pre

01:36:31 ◼   ► when it comes in. I think it may work but we'll see. But there is a big part, actually a bigger

01:36:38 ◼   ► part really, because there's still USB microphones you could use before this thing, which is

01:36:44 ◼   ► applications being able to be in place that you could have a conversation like this either via

01:36:50 ◼   ► FaceTime or via Skype and also record local audio and the call audio like you can do on a Mac.

01:36:57 ◼   ► Like there needs to be multiple audio streams that can all be recorded by applications.

01:37:02 ◼   ► This doesn't exist in iOS. Jason is very hopeful that Phil Schiller calling out podcasting on stage

01:37:09 ◼   ► means they're maybe going to work on this, like that was a specific thing to reference.

01:37:14 ◼   ► Fingers crossed, because genuinely, I think people think I don't want this to happen,

01:37:22 ◼   ► because they think that I restrict you Federico. No, that's not, it's never really been the case,

01:37:29 ◼   ► and that's not the case anymore. Anyway, my feeling was always like, with how it has been,

01:37:34 ◼   ► I just don't want to have to go through that because I know that you and Fraser record this because Fraser Fraser does does the

01:37:42 ◼   ► Two device setup. I just don't like it because then I have to hear a lower quality

01:37:48 ◼   ► version of you when we stream live everybody else will hear a low quality version of you because what Fraser's does and what people say

01:37:56 ◼   ► That you can do which you can is record like to use a Skype call over and I found with a headset like that is perfectly

01:38:02 ◼   ► doable but I just don't think it is the setup that I want to use or that I want you to use

01:38:09 ◼   ► and I know you don't either.

01:38:11 ◼   ► When I want to have my phone free so you know if there's an emergency people can call me

01:38:17 ◼   ► even if I'm podcasting you know if something serious happens I want to be reachable at

01:38:21 ◼   ► any time so I don't want to use my phone.

01:38:24 ◼   ► No. So fingers crossed, iOS 10 brings more audio APIs and more capabilities for audio.

01:38:33 ◼   ► Because I would really love to be able to take a trip and just be able to record using

01:38:40 ◼   ► my iPad. Like I wouldn't do it at home. I'm not going to do it at home. Like me, I have

01:38:45 ◼   ► this great Mac set up here. Everything works the way exactly that I want it to be. But

01:38:49 ◼   ► if I'm recording on location or I'm away from this and I want to be able to record something,

01:38:53 ◼   ► It'd be great to do a podcast just using my iPad and some equipment that I can put in

01:38:56 ◼   ► the back.

01:38:57 ◼   ► That would be A++.

01:38:59 ◼   ► And I would be totally happy personally with you doing it then after we've done some tests.

01:39:04 ◼   ► Okay.

01:39:05 ◼   ► Fingers crossed.

01:39:06 ◼   ► But Federico, you bought the most exciting product announced in the event.

01:39:09 ◼   ► Well, I mean, I think it's safe to say this is the real deal from the event, which is

01:39:15 ◼   ► the 29W USB-C adapter with the new USB-C to Lightning cable, which as Apple lovely explains

01:39:25 ◼   ► on the website, you can now use for fast charging on the bigger iPad Pro. So not on the new

01:39:33 ◼   ► 9.7 inch, on the traditional 12.9 inch iPad Pro, you can rely on faster charging. I already

01:39:41 ◼   ► use the 12W adapter that Apple gives you with the iPad Pro. But even faster charging sounds

01:39:50 ◼   ► even better to me, so I bought the set, so the adapter and the cable, it's shipping

01:39:57 ◼   ► in 3 to 5 days, so hopefully next week I will have my fancy charging setup. Which is really

01:40:04 ◼   ► exciting, you know? Hopefully, the iPad Pro changes real slowly, because it's got a

01:40:09 ◼   ► big battery. Hopefully with this thing I can go you know just a couple of hours

01:40:13 ◼   ► for a full charge we'll see.

01:40:16 ◼   ► Alright so the iPad Pro 9.7 starts at 32 gigabytes for $599 and then it goes to

01:40:22 ◼   ► 128 for $749 and 256 gigabytes for $899 and Steven you mentioned a little bit

01:40:28 ◼   ► earlier about the price difference here to the Air.

01:40:33 ◼   ► Yeah I mean I think they're pitching it as a more serious high-end product and

01:40:39 ◼   ► And I mean, that makes sense right there too.

01:40:42 ◼   ► And it is not only older,

01:40:43 ◼   ► which I don't think much people care about,

01:40:44 ◼   ► but you look at this thing,

01:40:46 ◼   ► a little bit more money,

01:40:48 ◼   ► I guess $200 more,

01:40:49 ◼   ► you get pencil and keyboard support

01:40:52 ◼   ► and you get speakers. - Four and a half or $200.

01:40:54 ◼   ► - Yeah. (laughing)

01:40:55 ◼   ► I mean, either they couldn't hit the $499 price point,

01:40:59 ◼   ► which maybe they couldn't,

01:41:00 ◼   ► or they wanted to make a statement

01:41:03 ◼   ► that this is a different machine than what it replaced.

01:41:07 ◼   ► - Oh no, I mean, you get pencil and keyboard support

01:41:10 ◼   ► when you lay out another $200.

01:41:12 ◼   ► - Right, and so the question for me is,

01:41:14 ◼   ► if they could have hit $499,

01:41:16 ◼   ► would they have replaced the Air 2,

01:41:19 ◼   ► or the Air 2 still have gone down in price?

01:41:21 ◼   ► I think the Air still would have gone down in price

01:41:23 ◼   ► because Apple seems to want an iPad

01:41:25 ◼   ► at every conceivable price point right now.

01:41:29 ◼   ► But is it gonna replace the Air 2 eventually?

01:41:32 ◼   ► Are we gonna have the iPad Mini and then the iPad Air

01:41:35 ◼   ► and then two models of Pro?

01:41:37 ◼   ► Like I said earlier, it's a transition.

01:41:39 ◼   ► I just don't know where they're transitioning to yet.

01:41:41 ◼   ► So I guess we'll just see over the course of time

01:41:43 ◼   ► what, how this shakes out.

01:41:45 ◼   ► - Bringing the Air 2 down to 399 is weird

01:41:47 ◼   ► because they didn't move the Mini 4.

01:41:50 ◼   ► - Oh, do they not?

01:41:51 ◼   ► Is it the same price? - No.

01:41:52 ◼   ► The Mini 4 is 399.

01:41:53 ◼   ► - That is, and it's not as good as the Air 2, right?

01:41:55 ◼   ► Or are they the same now?

01:41:57 ◼   ► - They're pretty much the same, I think.

01:41:58 ◼   ► - It's just smaller.

01:42:00 ◼   ► - Then the iPad Mini 2 is now 269.

01:42:03 ◼   ► - I can't believe they still sell that thing.

01:42:05 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:42:06 ◼   ► Well, it's the new iPad Air 2, right? Like it stays around for a while.

01:42:11 ◼   ► Oh yeah, my gosh, yeah.

01:42:13 ◼   ► Are any of us gonna buy the 9 7?

01:42:15 ◼   ► Nope.

01:42:16 ◼   ► Nope.

01:42:17 ◼   ► All right, Federico, why are you not getting it?

01:42:20 ◼   ► Because the benefits that it supposedly brings are not as essential to me as what the bigger

01:42:27 ◼   ► iPad Pro does, which is 2GB of more RAM. And I know, I know, it's got a bigger display,

01:42:33 ◼   ► maybe those two gigs are only useful for the bigger display, but I like to future-proof

01:42:39 ◼   ► my purchases. I like to know that I'm using the most powerful hardware around. I mean,

01:42:44 ◼   ► if I were a Mac user, I'd totally buy the most powerful Mac I could, because I just

01:42:49 ◼   ► want to have the most powerful tool I can afford for what I need to do. And also, really,

01:42:56 ◼   ► I love iOS on the bigger display. I wouldn't be able to go back to a smaller iOS that it's

01:43:03 ◼   ► just with split view that it's not as comfortable to use, I do love the experience on the bigger

01:43:09 ◼   ► iPad Pro. And then it's just what the 9.7" iPad Pro brings, the True Tone display and

01:43:17 ◼   ► the better camera, I just don't care. Night shift is enough for me to balance the white

01:43:24 ◼   ► colors of the UI. I don't take pictures with the iPad Pro, so I don't really care about

01:43:30 ◼   ► the camera. For those reasons I'm going to stick with the bigger iPad Pro because it's

01:43:36 ◼   ► more powerful, it's more comfortable. And it's actually more comfortable because it's

01:43:41 ◼   ► bigger. Because the iOS experience is bigger, the apps are bigger, the split view is easier

01:43:47 ◼   ► to use, so I'm going to stick with that.

01:43:53 ◼   ► I am appealed by the portability of the 9.7, like just it being able to be easier to put

01:44:00 ◼   ► like in places and carry around and it'd be lighter and stuff but, you know like the idea

01:44:04 ◼   ► of being able to hold my iPad in one hand really really easily like I can and I do hold

01:44:11 ◼   ► my Pro in one hand but like being able to just, I don't know, put my hand around the

01:44:16 ◼   ► whole thing and write on it and walk around like it just be more secure, it'd be nice

01:44:20 ◼   ► But I remember the reason I love iPad in general is because of the screen size of the iPad Pro,

01:44:27 ◼   ► the 12.9. I have an Air 2, it's sitting right here, and I started to come around to that with

01:44:32 ◼   ► split view. I was like, "Oh, this is nice, this is nice." But what tipped me over the edge was

01:44:35 ◼   ► the 12.9 inch screen. Like that was the last kind of bastion to fall for me to really show

01:44:41 ◼   ► the usefulness of what these devices can be. And this was underscore for me this morning,

01:44:45 ◼   ► and I was sitting downstairs on my sofa and I was working and I was flicking between applications

01:44:51 ◼   ► as I do now going from one thing to the other and splitting them in half and you know typing in one

01:44:56 ◼   ► copy and paste in the other I'm like I'm not going back from this screen size. Two full size apps

01:45:02 ◼   ► side by side pretty much like you have to pry that away from my content hands now like I love the way

01:45:09 ◼   ► that that works and this this 12 9 screen size I can't see me moving away

01:45:15 ◼   ► from that for quite some time. But Steven I know that you're maybe not as deep

01:45:21 ◼   ► into this and you've always been a you've always liked that 9 7 size you

01:45:26 ◼   ► don't think you're not even tempted? No I mean for the reasons that you two both

01:45:32 ◼   ► laid out so well but also the software keyboard is yeah finally I can type on a

01:45:38 ◼   ► iOS device comfortably and that's a big deal for me like you know not knowing

01:45:46 ◼   ► how this new smart keyboard is you know maybe that would change my mind a little

01:45:48 ◼   ► bit but I've gotten really good at the software keyboard if the thing is in

01:45:53 ◼   ► landscape and the size is really what unlocked you know kind of being able to

01:45:59 ◼   ► do some work on the thing and yes there's you know obviously pain points in

01:46:04 ◼   ► the software still like this new Air won't have the problem of apps being

01:46:08 ◼   ► upscaled like the Facebook app still or like Google Drive was or Google Docs was

01:46:12 ◼   ► until very recently but for me like you Myke what's different about the 12.9

01:46:19 ◼   ► inch is what has made me use the iPad more and so to give that up to something

01:46:25 ◼   ► that I would like to be more portable I would love to have an iPad I could use

01:46:28 ◼   ► in bed comfortably and one of these days I'm gonna rage buy an iPad Mini to solve

01:46:32 ◼   ► that problem but until then it is

01:46:35 ◼   ► tempting for that sort of use but when I

01:46:37 ◼   ► think about what makes this iPad sticky

01:46:39 ◼   ► for me in my workflow it's all about the

01:46:42 ◼   ► screen size. I tell you about the keyboard

01:46:46 ◼   ► one thing I want to know is if the 9.7

01:46:49 ◼   ► pro has a split keyboard?

01:46:52 ◼   ► Hmm that's a good question. It has the old

01:46:56 ◼   ► iPad keyboard like the Air 2 has

01:46:59 ◼   ► so my guess is that it does and that

01:47:01 ◼   ► they did that as a size thing but you ought to go ask Panzerino but he could tell you.

01:47:07 ◼   ► I'm sure he could. Alright that wraps it up for this week's episode. If you want to find

01:47:11 ◼   ► our show notes head on over to relay.fm/connected/83. Thanks again to Membeful, Squarespace and igloo

01:47:19 ◼   ► for supporting this week's episode. You can head on over to 512pixels.net for all of Stephen's work

01:47:24 ◼   ► and lots of stuff about old computers and some stuff about new computers. You can head on over

01:47:29 ◼   ► to MacStories.net and you can find out things about apps and new computers. This is really

01:47:38 ◼   ► like falling apart for me. Touchscreen computers. Touchscreens, yeah lots of touchscreen stuff

01:47:42 ◼   ► and some not touchscreen stuff and you can go to michaelsright.com for like just some

01:47:48 ◼   ► weird stuff really. I don't even know what goes there. I am @imichaelsright on Twitter

01:47:53 ◼   ► I am YKE, Steven is at ISMH, Federico is at Vitiici, V-I-T-I-C-C-I.

01:47:59 ◼   ► They will be back next week, I'm not here again, I'm sorry, I do love you all, I want

01:48:02 ◼   ► you to know that.

01:48:03 ◼   ► I will come back the week after, I promise.

01:48:05 ◼   ► Until then, say goodbye guys.

01:48:06 ◼   ► Arrivederci.

01:48:07 ◼   ► Adios.

01:48:07 ◼   ► Adios!