83: It Looked Like a Liam


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:06   From Real AFM this is Connected, episode number 83. Today's show is brought to you

00:00:12   by member four Igloo and Squarespace. My name is Myke Hurley. I am joined by Mr Stephen Hackett of

00:00:18   512 pixels. Hello Stephen Hackett. Hello Michael Hurley. And also by Mr Federico Vittici of Mac

00:00:25   Hi Federico. Well hey, thank you for telling the name of my website.

00:00:30   I'm Myke Hurley of michaelsright.com. Is that your brand? It's my personal brand, we know that by now.

00:00:37   I reckon we're gonna be a bit punchy today. We haven't recorded in the evening in a very long time

00:00:43   and we're recording in the evening tonight, so you've got that to contend with.

00:00:48   I miss the evening recordings. I do not miss them.

00:00:53   either but it's a it's it's a bit more romantic I guess it is it is I remember

00:00:58   back in the days of the prompt where I would be awake until 2 a.m. editing then

00:01:07   waking up at 7 to go to work the next day is there a podcast yeah I had to not

00:01:12   not anymore because I had to wait for Federico's file oh yeah and we used to

00:01:20   have so many problems just in general then.

00:01:23   And the freaking sound effects,

00:01:27   which always added more time than I wanted.

00:01:30   Those are the days.

00:01:32   We run a much tighter ship now, which is nice.

00:01:35   - There was no 4G, you know?

00:01:37   - Nope. - No 4G.

00:01:39   I used to say sentences with gaps in them

00:01:41   for you to drop the sound effect in.

00:01:44   - That's true.

00:01:45   - Over time, we perfected the gap

00:01:47   to the right time with the sound effect, but.

00:01:48   Yeah, really good at it.

00:01:51   So now it's time for follow-up.

00:01:52   Well, I want to do a piece of follow-out first.

00:01:57   In case people haven't heard this, you should hear this.

00:02:00   Episode number six of remaster went out last week, and we were very lucky to get an exclusive

00:02:08   interview with Shuhei Yoshida, who is the president of Worldwatch Studios' PlayStation.

00:02:15   This guy is like instrumental in the Playstation, like the PS4 and the PSVR, the new VR headset.

00:02:23   And Shahid went out to San Francisco and on his trip he got a 15 minute interview with

00:02:29   Yoshida-san, which is part of the episode, including me and Federico talking about the

00:02:35   Playstation VR.

00:02:36   So there's a lot of really interesting stuff in there, I think you should go and listen

00:02:39   to it.

00:02:40   It's at relay.fm/remaster/6.

00:02:41   If you enjoy the show share it with your friends, subscribe, it's fun, we enjoy it and we put

00:02:48   a lot of love and care into it so I think that listeners of this show would like that

00:02:51   very much.

00:02:52   It's a really cool interview.

00:02:54   Yeah, we were very lucky.

00:02:56   And then in a very important piece of follow up that I received just before the show, if

00:03:01   you remember back way into the history of when Workflow came out, I created or adapted

00:03:08   a workflow to send thousands of emoji at a time.

00:03:12   Do you remember this?

00:03:13   Yes!

00:03:14   I will find that workflow and put that in the show notes,

00:03:17   but a guy called Matthew sent me a tweet to tell me,

00:03:21   because I brought it up on Analog last week,

00:03:23   he used that technique to send 10,000 pig emojis to a friend,

00:03:27   and messages crashed every time that he tried to open it.

00:03:32   I had this and I just rebooted my phone and it was fine.

00:03:35   That wouldn't work for him. He had to restore his phone.

00:03:37   Wow. So I will put this workflow in the show notes, but I would suggest that you use it

00:03:44   at your own peril. If you do too many of them, things can go crazy.

00:03:48   Yeah, please don't try this at home. Well, you know.

00:03:53   Be careful. We're emoji professionals, so we're fine.

00:03:57   We can try it at home, but you should, everybody else should be careful.

00:04:02   So we're going to talk a little bit today about the Mac topic from last week, the idea

00:04:09   of some things that Apple could do to make the Mac potentially more attractive to third-party

00:04:14   developers.

00:04:15   And in that conversation we spoke about UIKit, and I had totally forgotten about and neglected

00:04:20   to bring up UXKit.

00:04:22   So we have a couple links in the show notes, one Macworld piece about why smaller iOS developers

00:04:30   maybe smart to look at the Mac and then

00:04:31   one of six colors and one to any essential

00:04:34   dot-com about about this topic about UX

00:04:37   kit specifically which is part of photos

00:04:42   dot app which shipped I guess what like a

00:04:43   year and a half two years ago now and if

00:04:46   you look at photos app it looks and kind

00:04:48   of feels like an iOS app in a lot of

00:04:49   ways and the reason for that is Apple

00:04:51   reimplemented a portion of UI kit to run

00:04:54   on the Mac and it's called UX kit and as

00:04:57   far as I know as far as I could find

00:04:59   Photos is really the only place that we've seen this and it has not been made

00:05:03   public to developers to use at this point as it been really expanded upon by

00:05:08   Apple but it does show that this sort of work at Apple at least has been underway

00:05:13   to a degree to get photos done and I think it's an interesting way of looking

00:05:19   at it that importing UIKit directly doesn't really work right because it's

00:05:24   touch driven and there's a lot of elements there that just don't make

00:05:27   sense if you're dealing with a cursor, because even if you're on something like the Magic

00:05:31   Trackpad, you're still not touching things directly, right? It's abstracted away through

00:05:37   the cursor. But you know, Photos.app feels like a Mac app, it feels like an iOS app too,

00:05:42   it's very sort of this strange hybrid. And so you should go check out those links, it's

00:05:46   an interesting piece of technology and one that maybe Apple will expand upon at some

00:05:50   point in the future.

00:05:53   So I don't fully understand a lot of this stuff, but so is this basically like

00:05:59   somewhere in the middle between Mac development and iOS development then?

00:06:03   Is that what this is kind of about?

00:06:06   Well I think some of it's a little unknown because UXKit is not really available for developers to use, right?

00:06:13   You can only kind of see how it's used in photos.

00:06:16   And so I think there's a lot of question as to like how much time and effort this could shave off

00:06:22   for porting an iOS app, but it's definitely further along than going from UIKit to AppKit

00:06:28   that's on the Mac now.

00:06:30   So basically an iOS developer could look at this and maybe have a better understanding

00:06:35   of how to use it because of the tools that they put into play on iOS?

00:06:40   Yeah, potentially.

00:06:42   So I think at this point it's all about the potential of it.

00:06:44   Alright, cool.

00:06:45   I wanted a piece of follow-up.

00:06:47   talking about Ulysses quite a bit last week and Federico kept sharing his

00:06:54   beautiful setup and this prompted a tweet from CGP Grey which prompted a

00:07:00   tweet from the Ulysses app people to say that Dropbox support is coming to a

00:07:05   soon update so I mean I don't know anything about this but it does more

00:07:11   than that but it looks like maybe that Dropbox sync will be coming back to

00:07:15   Ulysses or coming to Ulysses? Yeah, I don't know at this point because I don't

00:07:21   have a beta or anything so I'm based on this tweet but it sounds like there's

00:07:25   going to be direct support for Dropbox which is good news you know especially

00:07:30   because you can then go to Dropbox.com see the text files see versions you know

00:07:35   which iCloud doesn't show you. And also you have the peace of mind you know for

00:07:39   big things like this if I was you I would want to go with a

00:07:44   thing that I've used and known and trusted for many, many years.

00:07:47   And whilst iCloud seems better, I mean, I know as a Notes user, um,

00:07:52   iCloud is fantastic. Like the way that my favorite thing about Notes Sync

00:07:57   is that I may have added something from an extension.

00:08:00   I open up that note, start typing,

00:08:03   and then the link that I've added pops in above the text. Yeah.

00:08:08   I think that that is like, you nailed it, right? It needed to sync,

00:08:14   but you know where it's supposed to go.

00:08:16   That for me just feels like you nailed it.

00:08:19   So this stuff may be better, I don't know the ins and outs of how you would build an app like Ulysses on this stuff.

00:08:24   But, nevertheless, for a multiple thousand, ten thousand word article, Dropbox has never failed you.

00:08:32   No, never. And it gives you...

00:08:34   So you'd want to use that?

00:08:35   Yeah, especially because Ulysses uses that type of iCloud sync that you cannot manage in a web browser.

00:08:43   You know, it's not like when you go to icloud.com and you see a bunch of text files from, or

00:08:49   files in general, from iCloud Drive.

00:08:51   >> And BioWare does it like that.

00:08:53   >> Yeah.

00:08:54   Ulysses doesn't do that type of iCloud implementation.

00:08:57   So the iCloud that you see in Ulysses only propagates across the apps.

00:09:02   You cannot go on a web browser and see all your documents.

00:09:06   You can only go to your iPhone or the iPad or the Mac.

00:09:09   So it's only inside the app.

00:09:11   And using Dropbox or similar services gives you the sense of safety that you can go anytime,

00:09:21   anywhere on a web browser, you can view the file, you can restore, you can view versions,

00:09:26   which is what you want.

00:09:28   When you're working on a big project that's taking you months to put together, that's

00:09:32   what you want to be able to do.

00:09:35   So we'll see.

00:09:36   I'm really happy that they're doing it.

00:09:38   I've been using Ulysses for the past week again.

00:09:42   I know that people are waiting for some sort of follow-up.

00:09:46   I'm liking it a lot.

00:09:47   iCloud Sync has been terrific so far.

00:09:51   I don't know if I told you, Myke, but I'm using the dark theme a lot more.

00:09:57   To my surprise, because I've never been a huge dark theme user, I know that you love

00:10:01   dark themes.

00:10:02   I'm all about dark themes.

00:10:03   Yeah, I haven't been a dark theme person myself in any app really so far.

00:10:09   But I'm using it in Ulysses, I do love the contrast between the black background, the yellow font, red section names.

00:10:18   It's really nice.

00:10:19   Can you share the themes?

00:10:21   I think so.

00:10:22   I think so.

00:10:23   I haven't yet.

00:10:25   But I am like, every day I go to the App Store and look at the Ulysses app and then close it again.

00:10:32   I mean, I just look so pretty.

00:10:36   Yeah, I can share my theme, I think.

00:10:38   I'll take a look at how it's done.

00:10:41   I'm liking the toolbar a lot.

00:10:43   You know where it's got all the menus with the shortcuts

00:10:46   to insert links and footnotes to make text italic or bold?

00:10:52   I'm getting used to the layout because I'm new to the app.

00:10:56   It's only two weeks after years and years of other text

00:10:59   editors.

00:11:00   So I'm still getting used to it.

00:11:01   I do like a lot the organization that I set up, so I have two different groups.

00:11:07   One is called Maxories, the other is called Club.

00:11:10   So I can organize the different content that I write for the website and for the newsletters.

00:11:17   And then I'm also starting to use the keywords, so I have a finalized keyword that I apply

00:11:23   to sheets or documents when they are complete for the newsletter.

00:11:30   So when I open the club group in Ulysses I can just take a look and see what's been finalized,

00:11:37   what's ready to go.

00:11:39   That's nice, you know, it's very different, I continue to believe that it's very different

00:11:43   from what I used to write in before, and I'm getting used to the whole idea of sheets can

00:11:51   be grouped together and you can have attachments inside sheets, which I used last week to prepare

00:12:00   some iOS 9.3 coverage. I was saving screenshots and placing the screenshots right inside my

00:12:07   document, not into my Photos app, where for some reason I never find them again. So yeah,

00:12:13   I'm getting used to it. I think I'm positive that I'm gonna keep using it. I will keep

00:12:20   you updated over the next few weeks. I want to know more. Yeah I'm excited about

00:12:26   it mainly for that revision history like you guys were talking about. I mean I'm

00:12:30   using one writer which syncs Dropbox files offline which is really nice and

00:12:34   then I'm using NV alt on the Mac but it's nice to have the flexibility right

00:12:39   there because they're just files I can open something up and buy word or BB

00:12:43   edit or pull it down from Dropbox and kind of get at it from anywhere and

00:12:48   iCloud just has those walls around it that I don't really want to deal with.

00:12:52   So I'm with you, I'm excited about it, and I will definitely be spending some serious

00:12:58   time with it once Dropbox support is out.

00:13:00   Yeah, I've been back on editorial recently for some of the stuff that I've been doing.

00:13:06   And it's nice on the iPad Pro.

00:13:08   The beta is very nice.

00:13:10   Alright, talking about all this text stuff, I just wanted to take a quick moment, because

00:13:16   we're going to talk about the Apple event now. To talk about our coverage and stuff,

00:13:21   because we all kind of did our own little things yesterday, I wanted to just point out

00:13:26   the abundance of MaxStories links that are going to be in the show notes, because Federico

00:13:30   and his team posted 675 articles yesterday. I counted. 675. It was really impressive.

00:13:38   You should be very proud.

00:13:40   Thank you. It was only, I think, 14 or 15 maybe. But it's more than usual.

00:13:46   Yeah, it was a... Clearly you have either grown six more sets of arms or you have built

00:13:53   an incredible team around you.

00:13:55   Yeah, the guys have been really, really great. I'm really happy with the... You know, we planned

00:14:00   it in advance. We had like a full outline of how we wanted to cover the announcements

00:14:07   and we had a sort of plan based on, you know, 9 to 5 Mac basically gave us.

00:14:13   That is helpful for you actually, isn't it?

00:14:15   Because you can just assign the products as you know what they are.

00:14:18   We had two white cards and we said, well, based on what they are, we're just gonna,

00:14:24   you know, see what it is, go with the flow and we'll talk over Slack.

00:14:28   But we had a strategy based on, you know, iPhone, iPad.

00:14:31   I was getting iPad, of course.

00:14:33   Alex was getting the iPhone and we knew there were going to be watch announcements.

00:14:38   So we were like five people talking in Slack and it went really nicely.

00:14:43   Yeah.

00:14:44   Out of set.

00:14:45   Thank you, Myke.

00:14:47   Steven was doing his usual tweeting, as he is known to do.

00:14:53   If you don't follow the 512 pixels account, 512px on Twitter, you should follow it just

00:14:59   for Apple events.

00:15:00   goes a little bit crazy? It's very serious news coverage, so what can I say?

00:15:08   You also did a little article that we'll talk about in a bit, which is really cool. And

00:15:15   me and Jason recorded a weird and special episode of Upgrade where Jason called in from

00:15:22   his car on his way back from Cupertino to the Six Colors world headquarters and we recorded

00:15:28   the show that way. And I actually am really happy with how it turned out. It was a lot

00:15:34   of work from both me and Jason to get it just right. But I actually listened back to a bunch

00:15:38   of it today and I'm pretty happy with it. It was fun. It was something different to

00:15:43   what we usually do. So if you haven't heard that, again, more links in the show notes,

00:15:47   upgrade episode 81. So that's that. Let's actually talk about what happened. So what

00:15:54   we didn't know at the time when Tim made his big statement about the FBI was the way the

00:15:58   rest of the day would play out. And Federico, what happened yesterday evening in regards

00:16:04   to the FBI investigation?

00:16:07   I was basically postponed because the Department of Justice argued that a third party approached

00:16:13   them saying that there could be a method of unlocking the iPhone without having Apple's

00:16:19   assistance. And the judge, whose name I don't remember, I think it's Judge… yeah, I don't

00:16:26   remember.

00:16:27   PIM. PIM, yes. Okay. I was about to say PING, but that's another product.

00:16:33   Close. The judge isn't a product.

00:16:37   No. So they granted the FBI and the Justice Department a new hearing on April 5 to report

00:16:46   back on these tests that they're going to do on this action based on the method from

00:16:52   a third party. We don't know who the third party is. Might as well be John McAfee. We

00:16:56   don't know mm-hmm I think it's probably the NSA well guys I've got a special

00:17:05   guest to me here today it's the FBI it's me it was me all along I worked it out

00:17:10   it basically a lot of people are saying that they think the FBI is chickening

00:17:16   out of this I don't know I don't know how to take that I mean maybe what do

00:17:21   you guys think? Do you think there's any merit in that theory?

00:17:25   I mean, maybe a little, but I don't think they would say in what I imagine is sworn

00:17:31   testimony that they have someone else who thinks they can unlock it. Like, I don't

00:17:35   know. I mean, it's one of those things you may never know. And, you know, a lot of people

00:17:38   are like, "Hey, it's over." It's like, "Well, no, it's not over. It's kind of on

00:17:42   hold." And so they could go off and, "We'll just say that, you know, whoever it is could

00:17:48   go unlock it and that's that or that could prove to be incorrect and they could come

00:17:55   back and say hey you know what we tried this and you know what now you really should do

00:18:00   it because we have gone through you know all these other steps to do it and you truly are

00:18:05   our our last you know ditch effort so I don't see this as a victory yet but it's it's maybe

00:18:12   a ray of hope for people that want it to go Apple's way but it's not over. It's

00:18:18   not over so I think I think those headlines are a little premature but

00:18:22   we'll see you know it could be this just quietly goes away and if that's the case

00:18:25   then we can either assume that whoever it is did get into the phone and that's

00:18:30   got its own ramifications or that it really was they realized that they were

00:18:36   losing the public battle and so they sort of you know backed off from it but

00:18:41   again we'll probably think there's a big chance that we'll never actually know.

00:18:47   Apple opened the event with one of their cute little videos that they've done in

00:18:52   the past since was it like WWDC a year or two ago?

00:18:56   Was it the iOS 7 was like the first real time this had happened right? Yeah it had like the

00:19:02   little like little marbles or something yeah balls rolling around and

00:19:06   stuff and they've done they did one I think last year about like how app

00:19:10   developers like make the world really special it was like painting around a

00:19:13   room right and the words kind of appeared and disappeared based on the

00:19:16   angle so they've been doing some fun stuff recently. And this one was kind of

00:19:22   in anticipation of celebrating Apple's 40th year right which is what and on

00:19:31   April 1st? Yes. So there's that and and as part of this they basically showed up a

00:19:37   bunch of keywords and phrases and product names and in-jokes and there was

00:19:45   only one man who could decipher this code and he's with us today. Yes I was

00:19:53   listening to Upgrade washing dishes after dinner and Jason says hey you know

00:19:58   my first thought was that Steven should do like pull apart the video frame by

00:20:03   frame and like list out annotate everything that's in it and basically I

00:20:07   was like that's a great idea I should go do that and so I went and did it and

00:20:11   several hours later it took a long time I did learn that if you're in QuickTime

00:20:16   you can use the arrow keys to advance one frame at a time which is very

00:20:19   helpful when you're doing something like this but it's a fun it's a fun list

00:20:23   right like it's everything from 1984 in the Macintosh there's a lot of stuff

00:20:29   about the iMac g3 and then a lot of you know more modern stuff but it's I don't

00:20:34   know how many individual slides there are because I didn't number this list but it's

00:20:38   a bunch of stuff. Anything that jumps out for you specifically? I mean so two things

00:20:47   a the the Newton slide like it's really hilarious especially if you realize that. What is the

00:20:52   joke? So the word Newton stays up there and then after a moment they scribble through

00:20:57   it with like a line and if you are using a Newton that's how you delete a word is to

00:21:02   scribble through it. So it was kind of a little funny little jab at the Newton.

00:21:09   The guys who run the Newton Talk Twitter account really incensed over

00:21:14   this, saying they were going to scratch through Apple executives, which seems a

00:21:18   little overreaction. How often do the Newton people get in the news?

00:21:30   Yeah, you gotta give them it, right? And you gotta know it's gonna be negative, right?

00:21:35   Short of me writing something, I don't know who's writing anything positive about the

00:21:38   Newton these days. There's Newton people still?

00:21:41   Yes. What do they do?

00:21:45   Probably not a lot if they're still using the Newton.

00:21:48   No, I mean, serious question. Do they still use the Newton for, like, everyday computing?

00:21:56   I know people who use them as sort of like a... I mean, there are a couple people who

00:21:59   I still use them like daily I think I used it daily in college like 10 years ago

00:22:03   But I think that there's still some people who it's a it's a really passionate hobby like I think the word

00:22:08   I use in the end the list is like

00:22:10   enthusiasts

00:22:12   hmm

00:22:13   Can he go on the on the internet for example can I can you can put a wireless card in it and you can get?

00:22:19   on the internet, okay slowly and very

00:22:21   Simply, but yeah, it'll go

00:22:24   The other thing that jumped on me was all the iMac g3 stuff

00:22:28   They talk about the computer they have tangerine lime strawberry blueberry and

00:22:34   grape which were the five colors and or the five flavors as they called them and

00:22:40   those were the some of the only colored slides in the video so they've really

00:22:44   jumped out when you're when you were watching watching it and it's something

00:22:48   that's been on my mind because I'm in a phase of iMac G3 acquisition and so I've

00:22:56   been spending some time looking at them. So that jumped out at me. What does that mean exactly?

00:23:02   So I am trying to source one of each color for a project and so I have three now and

00:23:15   I've got a lead on almost every other color. Some of those I'm gonna have to just wait

00:23:21   until they show up on eBay but I got someone I think locally who has some iMacs that they're

00:23:25   gonna let me have. When you say project, do you mean hoarding? Like what is project?

00:23:32   When you say you have a lead, is it like an investigation that is going on?

00:23:38   Tracking down computers? Someone did, I got today, someone did email me after I

00:23:44   tweeted about it and they sent me an indigo that they had, which is pretty

00:23:48   cool. These aren't small, these are really big things and you want like six of them.

00:23:53   No, I can tell you. One, two, three, seven, eight, nine, ten. There's like twelve, I think

00:23:59   twelve different colors.

00:24:00   Are you going and trying to get all of them?

00:24:04   Mm-hmm. Yep.

00:24:06   You are one of the nicest people I've ever had the pleasure of knowing.

00:24:11   So those are twelve computers.

00:24:12   I don't know how you're married. I just don't know how it continues. I've met Mary. She's

00:24:18   very lovely and I don't understand it.

00:24:22   I don't want to put words in her mouth, but she's not real thrilled.

00:24:25   Okay, okay.

00:24:26   So those are 12 different models of the same computer.

00:24:30   Is that right?

00:24:31   Yes.

00:24:32   12.

00:24:33   Yes.

00:24:34   And you should put them on a long table and you sit in the middle and, you know, what's

00:24:38   the painting from Leonardo da Vinci, you know?

00:24:41   The Last Supper?

00:24:42   The Last Supper.

00:24:43   Wow.

00:24:44   And you do a recreation of that with you in the middle.

00:24:46   You know, 12 old computers.

00:24:48   I mean, I don't know what your project is, but it ain't gonna be better than that.

00:24:52   (laughing)

00:24:54   - The last supper of IMAX is pretty good.

00:24:57   So I'm gonna scrap what I had in mind.

00:25:00   - Oh, was there an Apple event this week?

00:25:03   - I don't know, yeah, can we get off of me

00:25:05   and do something else?

00:25:06   - Yeah.

00:25:07   - One billion active Apple devices,

00:25:10   this came up again, right?

00:25:12   They, I was trying to find it,

00:25:15   they mentioned this number before,

00:25:17   was it during a conference call or something?

00:25:18   - It was the last analyst call.

00:25:20   - Okay, so one billion active Apple devices.

00:25:24   I will admit that 337 of them are at my house,

00:25:27   but I think the way they count this are things

00:25:29   that check in with like an Apple internet service,

00:25:32   I think is how, I think that's kind of believed

00:25:34   how this number has come to.

00:25:37   And that number is really crazy to me,

00:25:40   that it's one billion seems impossible to understand.

00:25:44   - It's a lot.

00:25:47   Like I don't even--

00:25:49   - Yes.

00:25:50   - It's a lot, like it's a lot.

00:25:51   And I think they used that, Tim put that up

00:25:54   before he started talking about the privacy thing.

00:25:56   Like we have to protect all of these people,

00:25:58   I think was his kind of thing there, right?

00:26:01   - And I think it was to sort of show that Apple's not

00:26:07   like this like rinky-dink company

00:26:09   that can be pushed around.

00:26:10   Like they're also, they are saying,

00:26:12   and I believe what you said, that it's about like,

00:26:14   we have all these people that we feel we're responsible to,

00:26:17   but also like we're kind of a big deal,

00:26:19   And you could see a world where if this continues,

00:26:24   that Apple's gonna be like,

00:26:26   we have one billion active Apple devices

00:26:29   and we're an American company.

00:26:30   Like that's sort of the undertone I get out of this

00:26:32   is like, we're a big deal and we're here.

00:26:35   And it's obviously incredibly impressive.

00:26:39   And like you said,

00:26:40   difficult to sort of wrap your head around.

00:26:43   But I think that that number works in their favor

00:26:45   in a bunch of different ways.

00:26:46   - Yeah, no doubt.

00:26:49   Then they kind of went into the environmental stuff.

00:26:51   There's some interesting things there.

00:26:53   A lot of the stuff that Apple's doing for the environment

00:26:57   and their carbon offsetting and things like that.

00:26:58   But the real kind of cool news is the LEM robot, right?

00:27:02   Like that's what everyone's latching onto.

00:27:04   I mean, look, it is amazing what they're doing.

00:27:06   Like 99% recycled paper, 93% all renewable energy.

00:27:09   Some countries are 100%.

00:27:11   They go over 100% worldwide,

00:27:12   but they created a robot that has an eye that can tear apart

00:27:18   and just cast aside the insides of iPhones, right?

00:27:24   Have you read the Mashable story?

00:27:26   I haven't yet, I haven't yet. I saw that just before we started recording.

00:27:31   It's a giant robot that occupies an entire warehouse, and in the video you only see one

00:27:37   arm or maybe two arms of the robot. It's got 29 of those arms moving around.

00:27:43   Oh, that's horrific!

00:27:45   It's basically a huge machine and it takes I think 11 seconds, if I got this correctly,

00:27:55   it takes, let me see, 11 seconds to complete an iPhone disassembly process with dozens

00:28:04   running through the system at all times.

00:28:07   And it can turn around 350 units each hour for 1.2 million iPhones each year.

00:28:16   So this is just one single Lian robot machine.

00:28:19   It can do over a million iPhones each year.

00:28:22   It's a huge number, you know?

00:28:25   It's a little terrifying.

00:28:26   It is terrifying.

00:28:28   It's got 29 arms and it's basically like a giant robot inside of a warehouse eating iPhones

00:28:35   and spitting out parts in different buckets. And I mean, it's a very, it's a great initiative,

00:28:43   you know, especially because Apple explained to Mashable, we can cut through all the different

00:28:48   elements real precisely. So it's not like the traditional recycling process. It may

00:28:53   happen that, you know, that maybe the copper gets mixed up with a bunch of steel and then,

00:28:59   you know, the recycling process, it's not as good as it could be. We got this robot

00:29:04   with all sorts of crazy machinery going on, and we can precisely separate each element.

00:29:11   Which is great news, you know, especially because Apple can then resell all this material

00:29:16   which is not contaminated by other material to different companies that recycle the material

00:29:21   and it goes out, back out into the world. So it's great news, it's just, you know,

00:29:26   maybe the fact that it's a robot with 29 arms and it's got a name, it's only slightly terrifying,

00:29:33   I think.

00:29:34   I wonder what Liam stands for.

00:29:36   There must be a background to it, right?

00:29:38   No, there's no name.

00:29:39   According to Apple, Mashable was guessing.

00:29:43   They asked them, "Does it mean like line inverse assemble machine?"

00:29:50   Something like that.

00:29:51   And Apple was like, "No, it's just a name.

00:29:52   We looked at the robot and it looked like Liam and we named it Liam."

00:29:57   What can a robot look like that it looks like Liam?

00:30:01   It's 29 arms. That's the thing. Like, do they, does somebody really hate somebody called

00:30:06   Liam inside of Apple? Like, there's a guy nobody likes?

00:30:10   Something's really wrong with that guy.

00:30:11   Something's really... That looks just like Liam from Accounting, you know, the 29-arm

00:30:15   guy.

00:30:16   Wow. HR.

00:30:17   It was cool. And the, we glossed over it, but the environmental stuff is a big deal.

00:30:24   And I wasn't aware that they were so far into the renewable energy stuff, but I mean, again,

00:30:32   for a company of their size, clearly they're making a huge investment here and with a belief

00:30:37   that they are really improving the world.

00:30:39   So it's great.

00:30:40   And it was great to see some of that.

00:30:43   Obviously there's like the yak joke going around, which is rather hilarious, but it

00:30:48   It was a nice way to kind of set the stage a little bit going into these products.

00:30:55   Instead of a retail update, having an update in these other areas.

00:30:59   I think the point of bringing this up yesterday was, you know, you say you didn't know it.

00:31:05   I don't think anybody knew that they were this far along.

00:31:07   I think that was maybe why they brought it up.

00:31:10   So it was like, we've spoken about this before, but oh by the way, look at all this crazy

00:31:14   stuff we're doing.

00:31:15   It was cool.

00:31:16   It's a tough one.

00:31:17   - Cool, it's cool. - It's a thing.

00:31:18   - But do you wanna talk about ResearchKit and CareKit?

00:31:22   - Yeah, so ResearchKit has been,

00:31:25   it was announced a while back,

00:31:26   and Jeff Williams kind of runs Apple's Health Stuff,

00:31:31   along with a lot of other duties at Apple,

00:31:33   spoke about ResearchKit and how it's being used

00:31:36   and kind of building the case that it's being adopted.

00:31:38   And as a refresher,

00:31:39   ResearchKit is an open source platform from Apple

00:31:43   where institutions, hospitals, clinics, that sort of thing,

00:31:45   can build apps to basically have a at-large sampling

00:31:50   of medical data.

00:31:55   And so before, if you were going into one of these studies,

00:31:58   it could be very small or very labor and time intensive

00:32:01   to find people to join your study.

00:32:05   And now it's much simpler,

00:32:07   Apple argues, with a research kit.

00:32:08   And it seems that that's the case.

00:32:10   And they're expanding that with CareKit,

00:32:14   which best to understand it is basically a set,

00:32:17   it's open source like ResearchKit,

00:32:19   but it's a set of tools that can go into apps

00:32:22   for patients to be more engaged with their own care.

00:32:26   And so it comes with a couple of different,

00:32:28   I think what they call modules,

00:32:30   some for some tracking stuff.

00:32:33   So you can track range of motion.

00:32:36   You can hold the iPhone, the example Jeff Williams gave,

00:32:38   hold the iPhone in your hand and lift your shoulder.

00:32:40   And the accelerometer in the phone

00:32:42   well I can measure your range of motion.

00:32:45   You can put pain scores in,

00:32:47   but then there's also a whole follow-up deal.

00:32:50   So if you go and have a procedure done,

00:32:52   I've had this when I had my elbow worked on,

00:32:55   they basically just give you a couple sheets of paper

00:32:56   and they're like, yeah, do this, don't do that,

00:32:58   this is the medicine you need to take.

00:32:59   Well you can build that into an app now

00:33:01   where it can be interactive.

00:33:02   So a patient can go in and say yes,

00:33:05   if I'm supposed to change my dressing every three days,

00:33:07   I can go in and check off that I've done that,

00:33:08   or I can be reminded of it.

00:33:10   and really making that sort of Africa scenario

00:33:14   much more like in the 21st century.

00:33:18   And I think it's great and it's,

00:33:19   and I tweeted this yesterday and like I know

00:33:21   that it kind of sounds cheesy or it just comes across

00:33:24   as like being a fanboy, but I really believe

00:33:27   that in this sort of stuff, like A, Apple doesn't have

00:33:31   to do this, B, like I guess if there's any impact

00:33:35   to their bottom line is that people are buying

00:33:37   and using iPhones and people are already buying

00:33:39   and using iPhones.

00:33:40   I mean, I'm sure this is a loss for them on their P&L,

00:33:44   but the idea of leaving a dent in the universe,

00:33:48   as Steve Jobs talked about,

00:33:49   this is where they're doing it.

00:33:51   And they had a part of the research kit video

00:33:55   about studying things like epilepsy,

00:33:59   and can there be a pattern in people's heartbeats

00:34:04   before a seizure starts?

00:34:06   And if you know you're epileptic

00:34:07   you have you go into this rhythm like maybe you get a warning before you have

00:34:12   a seizure so if you're driving you can pull over or if you're in a grocery

00:34:16   store you can go find help and like someone who deals with epilepsy in their

00:34:20   immediate family like that's huge because that stuff can just come on with

00:34:24   no warning and I mean it can be really dangerous and I think it gets me I mean

00:34:31   obviously it's personal for me but I think it really is an area where like

00:34:35   like them or don't like them like their products, don't like their products. I don't

00:34:38   think anyone can argue that this is a great thing that Apple's doing. You know

00:34:42   I was looking through Twitter yesterday during the event and I saw a lot of

00:34:47   white tech bloggers making fun of research kit and care kit saying you

00:34:53   know now Apple wants to have all of your health data, they want to make money, this

00:34:58   is not so as you know make as a good initiative as they make it out to be.

00:35:03   Well, you know, these people, they probably never had to worry about a single serious

00:35:08   health scare in their lives.

00:35:10   Let me tell you, when you do, you know, when you do chemo, then you gotta do physical therapy,

00:35:15   and you gotta go through a bunch of paper sheets every time, and there's no correct

00:35:19   way to, you know, to look at all this data, there's no useful way to assess all of these,

00:35:25   you know, different data points.

00:35:26   Does your leg hurt?

00:35:28   Does the muscle hurt?

00:35:29   You know, did you do your exercises?

00:35:31   There's no good way to track all this. And any company who wants to make a tool to do

00:35:37   this stuff easily and to keep track of it and to help people, well, you know what? I

00:35:41   don't care if they also make money because they're helping me, you know? I went through

00:35:46   physical therapy and it wasn't fun. Especially when you gotta remember and you gotta print

00:35:52   out all of these paper sheets with all the exercises that you gotta do at home and you

00:35:56   forget and you don't like to go through those paper sheets because they're not on your phone

00:36:01   and you know it's a very bad quality you can never you don't understand drawings

00:36:05   but and you you don't have you know 3d animations on the drawings and then you

00:36:11   forget to fill out the forms you know it sucks it generally sucks and so when i

00:36:17   see these people making fun of something that can help others well it really gets

00:36:22   under my skin you know i think like my my feeling on this is i think that it is

00:36:28   a bit of column A, a bit of column B. They're trying to help everyone, but it's also a way

00:36:34   to help sell devices and market the products. But that doesn't even matter. It doesn't matter

00:36:41   if that's the thing. Because if you're actually, you know, and they said that some of the studies

00:36:46   that they've done ended up being some of the largest clinical studies in history. So it

00:36:51   doesn't matter if the reason you're doing it is to sell more iPhones. Because the result is amazing.

00:36:57   I don't think it matters either way. Of course part of it is to sell iPhones, otherwise they

00:37:05   would create devices for free and get them out to everyone in the world. But they're

00:37:08   not doing that, right? And they don't need to do that, they shouldn't have to do that.

00:37:11   They have a billion people using their devices, right? You only need like 0.001% of them and

00:37:16   it's a massive research study. But I think it's like whatever, let them do it. Because

00:37:21   what they're doing is actually making some people's lives better. I don't see why that's

00:37:26   an issue for some people but it is.

00:37:28   You know that's rich coming from some people who will solely concern is to look at the

00:37:32   page views but you know whatever.

00:37:34   It just gets to me.

00:37:37   He's not angry.

00:37:38   Not at all.

00:37:39   Let's take a break.

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00:40:10   Alright, so let's talk about what wasn't announced at the Apple event, which was anything Macintosh-related.

00:40:17   Waaah.

00:40:18   Now, I think that there's a real simple reason for this, but go ahead, Stephen.

00:40:25   No, I mean, Skylake MacBook Pros clearly on deck at some point.

00:40:31   They've got to be ready.

00:40:33   There's been rumors of external display.

00:40:36   I would like one of each.

00:40:37   I have.

00:40:38   I'm just waiting.

00:40:39   But, you know, clearly not the event for this.

00:40:43   You know, my initial thought was,

00:40:45   with the environment and the FBI stuff,

00:40:47   they wanted those things to be more,

00:40:50   like a bigger piece of the pie.

00:40:52   And so, to give those things some time to breathe,

00:40:55   but I think your theory is even better.

00:40:57   - I just, as I was watching the presentation,

00:41:00   and Sheila kept saying over and over again

00:41:04   that the iPad was the future of computing,

00:41:08   and they were talking about Windows switches coming to the iPad.

00:41:12   I think having Macs in there as well would have mixed that iPad message.

00:41:15   I actually think that this this message of future of computing

00:41:20   and all people that switch to the Apple ecosystem go to iPad first.

00:41:24   I think this is the new iPad marketing campaign, like the long running one.

00:41:30   Like this is going to be how they can kind of phrase this,

00:41:33   because if this stuff is all true, which we assume that it is,

00:41:36   This is stuff that they should be leveraging.

00:41:38   And they show a video later on.

00:41:41   They show a, or there's at least a video on the website

00:41:45   of people using their iPads, right?

00:41:48   They have one of those new iPad marketing videos.

00:41:51   And in that video, there are people working on documents,

00:41:57   working on images, in FaceTime calls,

00:41:59   like these aren't people hanging on the side

00:42:01   of mountain faces in tents anymore.

00:42:04   - No. - Thank goodness.

00:42:05   This is the way to market the iPad because everyone that I know that has started to love

00:42:11   their iPad Pros, and it's not just me and Federico, like you look at Serenity Caldwell,

00:42:17   I was just listening to MacPowers and obviously I notice from talking to Jason all the time

00:42:21   that he doesn't use a laptop anymore, like he uses his iMac and his iPad Pro.

00:42:25   I know Steven that you're using yours more and more.

00:42:28   The people that are using this device to do stuff, they're doing work on them.

00:42:33   not like trying to create a banned recital choreography. All of that stuff is really

00:42:38   cool but that's not the stuff that you show to the world because it doesn't relate to

00:42:43   the average person. This campaign of showing people in offices with architectural plans

00:42:50   on FaceTime calls in picture in picture using the pencil to draw things and make notes,

00:42:57   this is how they should be marketing this product. And I think they, I mean Touchwood,

00:43:02   have finally found the thing that might try and open this up to a wider audience again.

00:43:07   It's very practical, you know, showing people getting work done. You know, keyboards, documents,

00:43:13   chatting with other colleagues. It's very pragmatic, I would say. It's not, you know,

00:43:17   scuba diving with an iPad. Of course, yeah, you know, that's really cool, but, you know,

00:43:21   I don't explore the oceans with an iPad. I just gotta fill out this spreadsheet. So yeah,

00:43:26   makes sense. And I'm happy that they're going in this route. And yeah, I just think that

00:43:31   really that it more than once I think that the beginning and the closing of

00:43:35   the iPad Pro section was this future of computing thing and I think if they

00:43:41   would have closed that and about right now the Mac I don't know if it would

00:43:46   have landed so well I did I did have a chuckle that they had in like one of the

00:43:52   images behind children was talking is someone working on a surface like or

00:43:56   it's the idea that you know PCs are changing into these sort of convertible

00:44:01   things and that really is, especially the Pro,

00:44:05   once you get the keyboard on it,

00:44:06   like it is more of a convertible than a straight tablet

00:44:09   for a lot of people and so, you know I've got,

00:44:12   I don't disagree with the philosophy

00:44:17   of this marketing push.

00:44:19   It did feel a little thin when he first started talking

00:44:24   of like, why we're doing this new iPad Pro

00:44:28   and it's for like Windows switches.

00:44:29   I'm like, well, is it like, do people want to switch to a 10 inch tablet or do they want

00:44:33   to go to something bigger?

00:44:34   And I mean, obviously I don't know.

00:44:36   Right.

00:44:37   And Apple, I'm sure, has information about what people are coming from and if people

00:44:42   are repeat customers or not and all that stuff.

00:44:45   But clearly they're just trying something in a new direction to jumpstart those iPad

00:44:50   numbers and like that I've got no problem with.

00:44:52   All we know is the current direction is not working.

00:44:54   Right.

00:44:55   Like that's what we know.

00:44:56   and they've got to be the conversations that are happening inside of Apple's iPad marketing

00:45:01   teams. We thought this was really good, this looked really nice, it highlighted some stuff,

00:45:06   but it's not landing with people because sales numbers keep going down. So I think this is

00:45:10   the right move.

00:45:11   Can I just point out one, maybe not so little, but something that you don't like from this

00:45:19   section. When Phil Schiller said that people using a five-year-old PC is sad, I think that

00:45:26   that's really not cool. I mean I get why Apple, what kind of angle they were going for. You

00:45:34   know, we want to sell an iPad to these people because people believe that an iPad is a better

00:45:38   computer. But just the tone, you know, the half-hand comment saying "yeah, you know,

00:45:43   these people, they're using old computers, well that's sad". You know, on stage from

00:45:48   an executive, really not cool.

00:45:52   I think that Schiller was doing a little bit of ad-libbing here and it didn't pay off for

00:45:57   him so well.

00:45:59   Because the message that I think that they were trying to get across at this point was

00:46:04   there are people who have machines that are five years old.

00:46:07   That means they're likely to be upgrading at some point.

00:46:10   We want them on the iPad.

00:46:12   I think that was the message they were trying to get across.

00:46:15   But he was trying to make a joke for the Apple people in the room.

00:46:18   But all it's done is, it's become one of those things where people are complaining that Apple

00:46:23   has a bunch of products that are that year old as well, like for sale right now.

00:46:28   And it's like, yeah, you know, like it's true, right?

00:46:32   Like how old is the Mac Mini at this point?

00:46:35   You know, like they're still selling this stuff.

00:46:38   I mean, and you really want to go that we can go back to where a couple of weeks ago

00:46:40   you still selling hard drives, spinning hard drives in your Macs.

00:46:44   you know, how far down this do you think we want to go here? Yeah, I just think that that

00:46:52   was like, they tried, we're trying to make a good point, but it got mired down in a bad

00:46:57   joke.

00:46:58   Yeah, especially because you don't really want to point out the fact that, you know,

00:47:03   because it seems like, well, those people are sad, you don't want to put the spotlight

00:47:08   on what people are doing, because you don't know why people are using an old computer.

00:47:12   You don't know if people don't have the money to buy a new computer.

00:47:15   You want to put the spotlight on "we believe we have a better product".

00:47:19   That's a positive message, not that kind of poking fun that's not really necessary.

00:47:23   So I really didn't like that comment.

00:47:28   It was just poorly delivered, if it should have been delivered at all.

00:47:36   There were no Macs.

00:47:37   I think...

00:47:38   What?

00:47:39   We're gonna...

00:47:40   Buy WWDC, right?

00:47:41   There's got to be something.

00:47:42   that they might do a little event or a quiet event or just an upgrade in

00:47:46   between now and then? What do you think Steven? I think so. I mean unless

00:47:51   they're having some sort of issue it seems like Skylake chips are shipping in

00:47:55   mass to other OEMs. I would think that you know maybe in April you could do a

00:48:01   I don't think you have to do an event I think you can do that as a website

00:48:03   press release like embargo review type deal and I think that'd be fine. I think

00:48:09   June is a long way away and with so much software going on in the summer like

00:48:15   they I mean they've had they had the Mac Pro I think was a notable hardware thing

00:48:18   at WWDC but they've moved a lot of that hardware elsewhere in the year because

00:48:24   they've got OS X, they have iOS, they have tvOS, and they have watchOS to all

00:48:28   contend with now on the WWDC stage so I'm hoping I mean A because I'm in the

00:48:36   market but I just think that June is a long way off hopefully they would be

00:48:40   sooner than that yeah yeah I agree so the Apple watch they've dropped the

00:48:46   price down to $299 that's with the nylon bands right so is that I mean the sport

00:48:51   band I think is still the old price but oh really yes it's just the nylon it's

00:48:56   the I didn't catch that it's when it's matched with the nylon band which is um

00:49:01   I mean I think me that they're cheaper well if you buy them individually they're

00:49:06   the same I think. So I don't know what the deal is there. I mean clearly they're

00:49:10   trying to move them I guess and trying to maybe breathe some life into that but I

00:49:14   think it's great I think $299 is a lot more like mentally that's a lot smaller

00:49:19   number than $399. Yeah. For some reason it you know. My hope here is that this is

00:49:25   reminiscent of the original iPhone and that $299 becomes a starting point for

00:49:29   the next edition. I think it's really hard to go back. I mean yeah they did it

00:49:34   the iPad I guess we'll talk about that but I think once you drop it's got to be

00:49:37   real convincing why you would need to go back up again. Yeah yeah so $299 do the

00:49:44   new nylon bands I'm struggling with the nylon bands mm-hmm image to image place

00:49:50   to place they look good and not good to me I need to see these in person all of

00:49:57   Apple's shots don't appeal to me. I think that... so the shots that they show on the

00:50:04   web pages, are they renders or are they real? They look like renders. They look too sharp

00:50:11   somehow to me. But I don't know. That's what I think. Or like, they're shot in such a way

00:50:16   that they're shot so perfectly they kind of cross into the uncanny valley. And I don't

00:50:22   like them but The Verge had a hands-on and the photos from the hands-on I was

00:50:27   like they look quite nice. I want to go and see these in a store and I will

00:50:33   maybe pick one up. There's definitely a couple of the new sport band colors I

00:50:37   want to see. I like the yellow, I like royal blue and I like the red. I love

00:50:42   that they're doing more leather colors. The leather one I don't really think is

00:50:46   my thing especially with the sport band. The lug mismatching ended up being

00:50:51   something that turned me away from the Milanese in the end after that long long discussion

00:50:57   on this show I decided to not do that but I like that they're doing all that I like

00:51:02   the bands you know I mean it's just a fun little thing and and I'm interested to get

00:51:07   my hands on some more of them building up a real collection I'm basically as bad as

00:51:13   you with your IMAX the bands way less oh really less really how much do those things run

00:51:20   for the weight away you mean like price wise price wise yeah I was talking about

00:51:26   price not weight I've only bought one out of the three that I have and I think

00:51:30   it was like like 80 bucks and then I paid like 30 for shipping so I mean

00:51:35   hundred hundred fifteen bucks about three times the price of the bands

00:51:38   doesn't and storage space and they weigh 41 pounds so actually the later ones

00:51:43   away a little less they I'm just flipping through this they shaved off six

00:51:46   pounds at some point during the iMac G3's life. Way to go guys!

00:51:50   Let's put them on the no-cob diet. Is that what it was?

00:51:54   I don't particularly care about the

00:51:58   watch announcements, you know, it's kinda cool that there's more colors

00:52:03   and that the sport watch is cheaper, but I don't really like the nylon bands

00:52:07   that look kinda ugly to me, maybe, you know, not my style

00:52:10   but I do find it interesting that Apple is now

00:52:13   and officializing what Craig Hockenberry of the Icon Factory calls the reverse crown way

00:52:21   of wearing an Apple Watch.

00:52:23   So if you go see the Apple product shots on the store and on the watch website, you can

00:52:31   now see that Apple has some Apple Watch renders with a crown on the bottom left.

00:52:38   So usually the digital crown is in the top right.

00:52:41   In some shots it's in the bottom left, and again this is because there's a setting that

00:52:46   you can enable to rotate the interface of the watch if you want to wear the Apple Watch

00:52:53   with the crown at the bottom.

00:52:55   It wasn't really official before, I mean there was a setting, but Apple was not making a

00:53:01   big deal out of it, and now they do have renders and fancy product shots with a bunch of Apple

00:53:07   watches, some with the digital crown in the top right, some with the crown in the

00:53:12   bottom left. So, you know, if you're one of those people, know that now Apple

00:53:17   officially forgives you and accepts you as an Apple Watch user. I think you guys

00:53:22   should try it. You wear the Apple Watch this way? Try it. I did when it came out. I

00:53:29   didn't really like it. I think I thought it was kind of weird to use the crown at

00:53:35   the bottom. Crowns go on the right hand side of a watch face for me, like that's where

00:53:39   they go. That's where I'm used to them being. I guess. Yeah, I don't wear a watch, but you

00:53:44   know maybe just when I was a kid and I used to wear watches I remember, you know, the

00:53:48   crowns and the buttons were on the right side. Also for me now, like, I've got the muscle

00:53:52   memory. Yeah. So you know, I haven't worn my Apple Watch in like 10 days, you know,

00:54:01   lately. Didn't really miss it, but I started waiting again yesterday because of the watch

00:54:08   wise update. It doesn't really excite me, you know, everything is so slow. I mean, sure,

00:54:16   I do miss the time, I do miss the looking at the... but you know, it's the fact that

00:54:23   the apps that I use the most don't have Apple Watch versions. And so it's difficult for

00:54:29   me to be excited because the stuff that I needed to do it can't do and so I'm like should it you

00:54:36   know sometimes I forget and lately I forgot from like for like a week it was just there sitting on

00:54:42   the nightstand and I was like oh yes I gotta remember to wear my watch uh we'll see I guess

00:54:48   I want new hardware or new software I don't know but it doesn't do what I needed to do so

00:54:56   It's kind of sad.

00:54:57   I feel like I'm the only one here who really likes their Apple Watch.

00:55:02   Like sometimes in the morning if I haven't put it on, I'm like, "Oh, I need to go put it on."

00:55:09   Like I'm not getting my notifications.

00:55:10   Like I feel kind of like it's just part of my whole little setup that I've got going on here.

00:55:16   It really works for me.

00:55:18   I mean, you know, I mean, remember like I set my devices up in a very specific way.

00:55:24   So much so that they're always on "Do Not Disturb" because of the fact that I have an Apple Watch.

00:55:28   So, you know, when I don't have an Apple Watch on, things can start to get a bit like I just don't get any notifications of any kind.

00:55:35   So I was kind of built it that way. I built the Apple Watch as an important part.

00:55:38   It's like my notifications triage hub or whatever.

00:55:41   So like that's the only way I know that anything's happening.

00:55:44   You know, I think one of the reasons why I'm having this sort of change is because of a...

00:55:52   this is a bit of an off topic, sorry.

00:55:55   But it's because in the past few months,

00:55:58   I've been trying to change the way I deal with work

00:56:03   when I'm out.

00:56:03   You know, when I'm not at home getting work done,

00:56:06   I'm usually like shopping with my girlfriend

00:56:08   and I'm trying to focus on, you know,

00:56:11   I want to get work out of my head.

00:56:13   So what I did is I turned notifications off.

00:56:16   So I don't want to see notifications

00:56:17   because I know that, yes, maybe something is important,

00:56:21   But I don't want to be bothered because I want to try to enjoy, you know, what I'm doing when I'm out.

00:56:29   So not having notifications, you know, when I go out now I usually set my phone to "do not disturb" or set to "mute"

00:56:37   because I don't want to look at it. I don't want to be... I don't want to have the temptation, you know?

00:56:42   I'm sort of forcing myself to not be distracted.

00:56:46   And I know that it sounds awful because I mean, sure, I'm spending time with my girlfriend, I'm not working,

00:56:50   I should be able to do it on my own. But it's that sort of habit, you know, that it's hard

00:56:54   to kick. So I've been trying to sort of isolate myself when I'm not working. And so not having

00:57:01   notifications come constantly, but knowing that, you know, there's someone on my team

00:57:06   taking care of the news or taking care of something when I'm not working, it helps me

00:57:13   enjoy, you know, life more. And so not having the custom nagging on the watch, it's been

00:57:20   kind of relaxing in a way. I don't know.

00:57:25   This is one of the bigger problems with the way that the tools that we use to get our

00:57:32   work done because we have an issue. I mean, we could we could go deep here, but the tools

00:57:38   that we use as people that kind of have independent businesses on the internet

00:57:43   are the same tools that we also use to talk to our friends. So it's like if you

00:57:49   want to talk to people then you have to have the notifications on and then the

00:57:53   notifications also for work like that's where it starts the line starts to get a

00:57:57   little blurred there because you can't just switch off a specific thing and

00:58:01   still get slack messages from me because then they could also be slack messages

00:58:06   is from a developer. Like, you know what I mean? That's an issue, but maybe that's a

00:58:11   conversation for another time.

00:58:12   Yeah.

00:58:13   Alright, let's take a break, talk about the iPhone SE. This week's episode is also brought

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01:00:02   Thank you so much to igloof for the continued support of this show and relay FM.

01:00:07   iPhone SE.

01:00:09   It is the new 4 inch iPhone as we expected but maybe what we didn't expect is it is except

01:00:17   for a different chamfer which is now a matte material basically.

01:00:22   It looks exactly the same as the 5s.

01:00:27   And the rumors didn't really say that that was going to be the case, right?

01:00:30   We were always thinking curved glass, there were some rumors that were like "looks like

01:00:34   a small iPhone 6".

01:00:35   Nope.

01:00:36   Looks completely like the 5s.

01:00:38   Rumors were a bit confused.

01:00:40   Seems like it.

01:00:41   Which is rare, I think.

01:00:43   These days.

01:00:44   Everything else, you know, is basically on point.

01:00:47   Yeah.

01:00:48   It's a smaller iPhone, it's got everything, almost everything from the 6s except the D-touch.

01:00:53   And it's not called the 5SE, it's just called the SE, which according to Schiller stands

01:00:58   for Special Edition.

01:00:59   So there you go.

01:01:00   No mystery.

01:01:01   But it's got Apple Pay, you know, it's got a 12 megapixel camera.

01:01:06   Is that right?

01:01:07   Yep.

01:01:08   Yep.

01:01:09   And I think it's got the 5 megapixel front, right, as well?

01:01:12   Yeah.

01:01:13   Yeah.

01:01:14   So it's the 6S chipset and the camera, but no 3D touch display.

01:01:18   Which is interesting to me.

01:01:20   What do you guys think of 3D Touch as an outgo here?

01:01:24   They didn't want to build the sensors for the 4-inch because they don't have them.

01:01:29   My guess is that was a road too far in the re-engineering of that chassis.

01:01:35   Probably.

01:01:36   I mean, what do you guys think about the design being the 5S design?

01:01:41   Like you said, unless you're one of us, you're never going to notice the difference.

01:01:45   It already looks old, right?

01:01:47   And what happens when the iPhone 7 comes out and is assumedly different than the 6s?

01:01:52   Is this going to look even older or have they crossed some sort of threshold into like this

01:01:58   being sort of a more timeless design that you know may hold up better than you know

01:02:04   say the iPhone 3G did?

01:02:06   So here's my story.

01:02:08   Basically you know if you've been listening to this show that I've been talking for weeks

01:02:13   about Adina wanting this right?

01:02:15   She wanted a new phone, she wanted it to be small, she's not too keen on the 6.

01:02:19   I told her all the specifications over iMessage, I was like, it's gonna be just like the 6S

01:02:24   but inside of there, like, it's gonna be fast, the battery's gonna be much improved, it's

01:02:29   gonna have a better camera, you're gonna get live photos, she's like "great!"

01:02:32   She looked at it, she's like "I'm not sure."

01:02:35   No, come on, no, Adina has to buy one now.

01:02:37   The reason that she feels that way is she was hoping for something new.

01:02:41   Because she just looked at her phone and she's like "it's just the same."

01:02:44   She's like, is it lighter at all?

01:02:46   I was like, probably not.

01:02:47   She's like, I don't know.

01:02:49   So she wants to go and see it now.

01:02:51   So she may still go with this, but she now wants to go to a store like we were thinking

01:02:55   we were just going to get this sight unseen, like we were just going to buy it.

01:02:58   But she wants to now go to a store and look at it and play with it.

01:03:02   And then maybe also play with a success again and see what her final decision will be.

01:03:07   And I get that because it is that like, I don't want something that looks old feeling.

01:03:13   Yeah, the power of new, you know, has to look new.

01:03:16   Sure.

01:03:17   Makes sense.

01:03:18   For me, the story is very similar except the ending.

01:03:21   My wife has a 6S that we got at Christmas and she wants to go back.

01:03:26   In fact, I'll be ordering an iPhone SE this week for her.

01:03:29   And so I had the same deal.

01:03:30   I just told her, "Hey, it is basically the phone you have now, minus 3D touch, which

01:03:34   she doesn't use, in that smaller form factor.

01:03:37   And it's exactly like the 5S you had."

01:03:39   And not only was she pleased about that, the first question was, "Hey, do we still have

01:03:43   my old iPhone case?"

01:03:46   And that really sort of like, you know, it's easy for us as enthusiasts to not really understand

01:03:53   all of the things that go into these sorts of decisions for people.

01:03:56   But for her, it was like, "Oh, great.

01:03:57   I even have a case for it that already work, right?

01:03:59   Like, let's do it."

01:04:01   And I think the case compatibility thing is maybe a big deal.

01:04:05   And they're talking about people who may be upgrading from an older phone, they could

01:04:10   just continue to use their 5, 5S accessories.

01:04:13   And then they're talking about this phone being really popular for people who are new

01:04:17   to the platform.

01:04:18   And what was the number?

01:04:20   30 million 4-inch phones sold last year?

01:04:23   That's 30 million old phones sold last year.

01:04:25   That's crazy, right?

01:04:26   Like, you can see why they're making this device.

01:04:29   I mean it's only a fraction of two hundred and three million iPhones I think sold in

01:04:35   total but it's a large number still.

01:04:38   But it's but think about it if you know they made the argument that the foreign phone is

01:04:43   popular with people coming to the platform for the first time do you want your newest

01:04:48   users to be on something that's two to three years old tech wise?

01:04:52   No no no.

01:04:53   You don't want them to have the good camera and the speed and Apple pay being a huge addition

01:04:58   into this phone, like I totally understand

01:05:00   why they're making it and while it's not for me,

01:05:02   it is for some people in my life

01:05:03   and I think it'll be popular.

01:05:05   You know, I've got some questions

01:05:07   about the longevity of the design,

01:05:08   but I think that'll pan out in time

01:05:09   or it may be that only we care about that

01:05:12   and maybe Adina is like kind of in the middle,

01:05:14   but a lot of people, my wife included,

01:05:16   like she saw it as a benefit that it was,

01:05:19   you know, basically the same as her 5S

01:05:21   and you know, she's picking a different color,

01:05:24   she hasn't had silver before,

01:05:25   she wants to go silver this time,

01:05:26   But other than that, I don't think people are gonna care

01:05:30   as much as maybe we care.

01:05:32   - The way we left it was that she said,

01:05:34   maybe I'll get one, a different color,

01:05:36   and then that will, the trick that we use, right,

01:05:39   to make it feel new, she might go with that.

01:05:42   Basically, it's just because it looks like

01:05:44   the one that she's got, she now wants to go and feel it

01:05:47   and play around with it.

01:05:48   And I would be surprised if she ended up

01:05:50   going with a success, but it was just interesting to me

01:05:53   that it was such a sure deal, and then it's like,

01:05:55   "Oh, but now I feel like I have the same phone."

01:05:58   The problem here, Myke, is that you overhyped your own girlfriend.

01:06:02   Because you've been an unreliable source of rumors.

01:06:05   I am.

01:06:06   If she was here right now, she would tell you that the overhyping is real.

01:06:10   [laughs]

01:06:11   It's not your fault, Myke.

01:06:12   Just in general daily life, I overhype constantly.

01:06:16   [laughs]

01:06:19   So this is good. I mean, what, $3.99 for 16GB? Okay.

01:06:24   I want to ask you two. Jason asked me this question.

01:06:28   So Federico, 16 gigabyte in the iPhone SE for $399.

01:06:33   Is that a problem? 16 gig?

01:06:37   Or does it bother you?

01:06:39   It bothers me.

01:06:40   Okay.

01:06:41   Right? It bothers me because 16 gigabytes is just ridiculous.

01:06:45   I mean, I get it. It's cheaper.

01:06:47   It's under $400.

01:06:49   It's under, you know, the threshold of $500, which is good news.

01:06:53   I think it's a better attempt at a cheaper, not cheap, cheaper phone than the iPhone 5c.

01:07:00   You know, it looks more classy, it's got the latest tech, but the 16GB just bothers

01:07:06   me at a conceptual level, you know? Because it's just, it's not a real... I'm just

01:07:12   going on the record, I don't call it a real iOS experience. When you use a... when you're

01:07:17   selling people a 16GB phone, the problem isn't people buying these, the problem is Apple

01:07:24   selling 16GB iPhones. You're giving them an inferior experience, just because they cannot

01:07:30   enjoy the benefits of having more storage. You know, more video, more games, more apps.

01:07:36   And I say this because I see my friends, you know, they're on a budget, but they still

01:07:41   want to use an iPhone, and the base iPhone, which is the iPhone that they can afford,

01:07:46   which is the iPhone that Apple sells, at 16GB, and they're constantly, constantly battling

01:07:52   with the deleting apps, deleting games, deleting videos. That's not a good experience. That's

01:07:57   just ridiculous. And I feel like the problem is in people, you know, because from our position,

01:08:02   where tech people, we have the money set aside for buying these gadgets, and we're always

01:08:10   Too often, too quick to judge and say, "Well, you know, those people, they are, you know,

01:08:15   shame on them, they're dumb because they're buying the 16GB iPhones."

01:08:22   But that's not the problem.

01:08:23   The problem is at the beginning, at the source, which is Apple making these phones, let me

01:08:27   tell you, I don't buy the argument that Apple knows, that Apple, you know, they look at

01:08:33   the data, they look at the customer feedback, I don't buy that anymore.

01:08:36   16 gigabytes really bothers me because it's no way to enjoy an iPhone and it's no way

01:08:41   to sell an iPhone. So it's good news that it's cheaper, but I don't accept the 16 base

01:08:48   model anymore.

01:08:49   Steven?

01:08:50   I mean, we're going to be buying the 64 gig, but I tend to agree with Federico, but with

01:08:59   the caveat that I think some, I'll get the way some people I know use their phones and

01:09:05   it maybe isn't a big deal but I think that overall it's a they should move forward from this and

01:09:12   you know maybe to hit that price point they're doing it whatever but I will be extremely

01:09:16   disappointed the next flagship phone still carries that 16 gig badge on the back.

01:09:21   In this phone the SE it doesn't bother me as much just in this phone because it's about budget it's

01:09:32   the low end of the market.

01:09:34   Yeah, with the 12 megapixel camera that takes HD photos.

01:09:37   Yeah, it's a 4K video.

01:09:39   I know it's ridiculous, right?

01:09:41   Like I know all of that stuff is ridiculous.

01:09:43   I wish that it was more,

01:09:45   but like it doesn't upset me to the level

01:09:47   that you guys are upset.

01:09:49   Like it doesn't upset me if they try and do this again

01:09:52   in the iPhone 7.

01:09:53   Like if we're coming to the iPhone 7 with 16 gigabyte base,

01:09:56   like it's just ridiculous.

01:09:57   Just in this one phone,

01:09:59   I'm just a little less annoyed about it, personally, than I think you guys and other people.

01:10:07   It just doesn't really bother me so much considering it's $100 more for $64.

01:10:12   So it's not a massive jump to get a really good storage.

01:10:17   And I think if it helps keep it under that $400, then I think that's good because I think

01:10:24   it should be there and whatever.

01:10:27   The other thing, the other iPhone related thing I guess is iOS 9.3 is now out.

01:10:34   I guess there's nothing really new to say that I suppose we haven't already spoken about

01:10:38   on the show about 9.3.

01:10:40   Probably.

01:10:41   Yeah, we've talked about Notes, Night Shift, the iPads and education.

01:10:46   I think we covered the main points.

01:10:49   There's a bunch of tweaks, you know, especially with Apple Music, with a few system apps,

01:10:54   but there's some changes, some more 3D touch quick actions I guess is good news, but yeah,

01:11:00   I think we covered the main points. And you know it's a pretty stable release,

01:11:04   I'm pretty happy with it on all my devices, yeah I think it's good, I'm happy that it's out and

01:11:13   everything's running well on it I think. Yeah and one of the things that Apple doesn't say that I

01:11:21   heard from a few friends, is that they try to increase performance in some areas of the

01:11:29   OS, especially Control Center, to bring it back to 60 frames per second on every device,

01:11:35   which is nice. It's a good release, again, surprisingly feature-rich, given that it's

01:11:44   a couple of months away from WWDC, we already had 9.1, 9.2, and we were not expecting 9.3,

01:11:52   which is usually when Apple likes to wrap things up and to say "time to pack it up

01:11:58   and go to the next OS". They usually do bug fixes and a few maintenance type of things.

01:12:03   It's sad that we got brand new features here. So it was interesting, but we covered

01:12:09   it and it's a good release. Especially if you're on an older device, I recommend to

01:12:16   upgrade because things are supposedly faster on the older side of things.

01:12:22   Alright today's episode is also brought to you by Squarespace, the simplest way for anyone

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01:14:09   first purchase and show your support for connected. I'd like to thank Squarespace

01:14:13   for their continued support of this show and Relay FM. So following in the steps

01:14:19   of products that we mostly knew were coming a new 9.7 inch iPad Pro was

01:14:25   announced and it is more or less the 12.9 inch tablet that the three of us enjoy. It

01:14:30   does the smart connector for the keyboard, pencil support, the new four

01:14:35   speaker system and it comes with the A9X. It does come with 2 gigs of RAM which is a

01:14:41   step down but it is obviously a lot fewer pixels to push so maybe that kind

01:14:46   of comes out in the wash. And it's um you know it's it's a step up from the Air 2

01:14:52   so basically this thing starts at $599 the Air 2 is still around now at $399 so

01:14:57   for the first time $499 price point is empty which is interesting. It's you know

01:15:03   it's I think Apple's pitching it as an upgrade from the air 2 but also hey you

01:15:09   want all this stuff that the iPad Pro has but you want it in a smaller form

01:15:13   factor that you know we have that now in many ways it's treating the iPad line in

01:15:17   my opinion more like the MacBook Air the MacBook Pro where you have a couple

01:15:22   different machines that are more or less identical but you're going in and

01:15:26   choosing by size you know I think there's a little bit of a question as

01:15:30   to what's going on with the iPad Air line, is the iPad Air 2, which said did not get

01:15:35   an update, still for sales it's been for a long time, is that going to just kind of fade

01:15:38   away and the pro can maybe come down in price?

01:15:41   I think that's kind of to be determined, but a new price point, new product, and you know,

01:15:48   bringing a lot of that stuff that we've enjoyed on our bigger iPads down to the more popular

01:15:52   tenant size.

01:15:54   What do you guys think?

01:15:58   I have a problem with the True Tone display thing.

01:16:03   - Okay.

01:16:04   - So this is an idea of, I don't know what,

01:16:09   like better color reproduction, right, in certain areas

01:16:12   and the display tech itself has got a higher color gamut?

01:16:17   - Yeah, so it's a couple of things.

01:16:20   So the iOS devices and laptops and everything

01:16:24   have had ambient light sensors for years

01:16:26   and they're using that now to detect the color temperature in the room.

01:16:30   And if the color temperature is warmer,

01:16:32   it will match the color temperature of the display.

01:16:35   So it's kind of riding on the back of what Night Shift is doing a little bit of say,

01:16:39   hey, we want to go warmer or cooler to match the room and Apple pits it as

01:16:43   you know, if you have a sheet of paper, the sheet of paper matches the room.

01:16:45   But if you're in a dark room that's sort of, you know,

01:16:48   I think they use example like sitting next to a fire.

01:16:51   You don't want your iPad to be blasting bright blue light in your eyes.

01:16:54   You want it to be warm and toned down to feel more in tune with the room or whatever language

01:17:01   they used.

01:17:02   So I think it's more about hijacking night shift in a way than necessarily the larger

01:17:07   color gamut.

01:17:09   I think the hardware difference is the sensors, not necessarily something built into that

01:17:15   gamut, but I could be wrong.

01:17:17   Yeah, I think they've put more sensors in it to make the ambient stuff better.

01:17:21   Yes, it's the only device with that particular ambient light sensor is how I understand it.

01:17:28   When you couple this with the difference in the camera, I put a screenshot in the show

01:17:33   notes. I was looking in the Apple Store app today and I opened the iPad Pro page and they

01:17:39   have a breakdown of the features of the two devices and it's so confusing. So you have

01:17:48   Two devices in the same line.

01:17:50   One of them's bigger than the other one.

01:17:53   But the smaller one has got a camera of higher megapixels,

01:17:58   and it's got a better FaceTime,

01:18:00   and it's got the retina flash.

01:18:02   And it's talking about true tone display on the resolution.

01:18:05   I think it's just confusing,

01:18:08   and I'm not sure why they decided to put these features

01:18:13   in the small one and not the big one.

01:18:14   I'm confused about it, and it feels weird to me

01:18:18   to be introducing a new product in this line, and then immediately splitting the line on

01:18:28   features?

01:18:29   I don't agree with it, but I think I can explain their reasoning, maybe. I think the perspective

01:18:36   they're coming from is, the new 9.7" iPad is a smaller iPad, people carry this type

01:18:45   of iPad around more than they do with the bigger iPad Pro. So because it's more portable,

01:18:52   because people use it more in sort of mobile scenarios, they walk around, they take pictures,

01:19:00   it's a more mobile iPad, so we gotta put a better camera in it, and we can have this

01:19:07   display technology that adapts to different rooms, to different scenarios, because people

01:19:14   move around with this type of iPad more, so people change contexts with this type of 10"

01:19:21   iPad more than they do with the 13" type of iPad. I think that's their angle. And they

01:19:27   also kinda say this on the website, they say "and because people love to carry their 9.7"

01:19:37   iPad around, we had a display technology for better color, whatever. I think that's their

01:19:45   angle because it's a smaller iPad, people use it more in mobile situations, so we do

01:19:53   the better camera and we do the better display. I think that's what they want to say at least.

01:19:59   I can totally understand that logic. That is the logic that led to the decisions. I

01:20:04   see that, that I think you are spot on. It's just weird to me when you look at the pages.

01:20:11   If you think about when the iPad Mini was introduced, it was like same specs, you just

01:20:17   picked the screen size. I think that would have made a lot more sense here considering

01:20:21   they did things for the iPad Pro 9.7 which are a bit weird like shrinking the keyboard

01:20:28   down. So the software keyboard is not as good but then they actually, the smart keyboard

01:20:34   right? They made a smaller one of those even though it maybe doesn't make as much sense

01:20:38   on this device as it does on the bigger one. So like you're trying to make them the same

01:20:43   and then splitting them at the last minute anyway. It's like they went on like a just

01:20:46   a sharp right turn. For features that are, I don't know how important. So maybe the camera

01:20:53   I can kind of say fine like whatever but I don't know if they needed to do this True

01:21:00   tone thing now. They didn't have to do it. No one asked for it. It's great that it's

01:21:05   there, but you could have just had this as a feature for the next revision of the iPad

01:21:10   Pro line in a year or two down the line. It's just strange to me, and I think it adds complexity,

01:21:16   because now it's like you're not just choosing screen size, which I think should be the only

01:21:19   choice here. You're also choosing other features.

01:21:24   Like RAM.

01:21:25   Yeah. But that's hidden though, right?

01:21:28   Yeah, I mean I get what both of you are saying, but there is a little sense in me that Federico's

01:21:36   discussion is a little bit of a backronym, that they sort of worked their way to that,

01:21:40   and it may be as simple as the technology wasn't ready, they wanted it but it wasn't

01:21:44   ready, or if this does leverage things in night mode, that the software wasn't ready.

01:21:49   And that I can buy just as easily as I can buy what Federico said.

01:21:53   I think there's a lot of factors that go into this.

01:21:57   I mean, this is not the first time that Apple's done this sort of thing right where they know they sort of split something

01:22:02   you know sooner than you would like or

01:22:05   You know, there's that there's an awkward period

01:22:09   I think my favorite example is that they they rev like the iMac g5 and put an iSight camera in it and then release the

01:22:16   Intel iMac like

01:22:18   90 days later

01:22:20   Very short period time you could buy an iMac g5 with an iSight and if you did

01:22:23   You were kind of screwed because the Intel one was much better

01:22:26   I mean Apple does this and I think that they

01:22:28   For like it's easy to ascribe to them

01:22:32   Adjectives like being thoughtful and like seeing down the road. I think sometimes they don't and sometimes they just say hey this is it ready?

01:22:39   Now it's ready. Okay. Now it is let's let's put it in but I agree with you guys

01:22:43   It definitely doesn't feel good as like an iPad Pro owner, but at the same time

01:22:47   I'm really glad my iPad doesn't have a camera bump. So I guess that's a trade-off. I'm willing to accept

01:22:52   Okay, let me let me ask you guys this this is a bigger question, but I want to ask you both

01:22:57   So is it maybe?

01:23:00   the time to accept that the age of the

01:23:05   Simple product line is over that Apple is such a big company selling

01:23:10   Devices to so many diverse people and countries and you know, you know different types of market segments

01:23:20   That it's just not feasible anymore to imagine Apple with two computers, two phones and two tablets?

01:23:26   I think it's inevitable that a company of their size would have the amount of products that they have.

01:23:34   Like it gets confusing and I think one of the reasons it gets confusing is because

01:23:39   Apple's really bad at naming in a large product line.

01:23:45   Like they try and keep it clean, but in keeping it clean make it difficult

01:23:51   Like in their own video about the iPad Pro they call this iPad Pro

01:23:56   multiple names

01:23:58   Yeah

01:24:00   Like it doesn't have a set name that they give it

01:24:03   One moment is the new iPad Pro and then it's the iPad Pro 9.7

01:24:09   Like they don't give them the clear names because they have like such a limited set of names that they're willing to draw from

01:24:17   So I think that doesn't help them and I think it makes the problem seem worse than it is like

01:24:25   Earlier in the show we were talking about 1 billion

01:24:29   devices

01:24:31   You can't just have everybody choose from two things exactly. Yeah, but that's crazy

01:24:36   like it's obviously not a billion people it's let's say half a billion people

01:24:42   let's just say I mean it's not that it's much bigger it's probably like three

01:24:44   quarters but I want the iPad Pro I don't want the iPad Air I don't want the 9.7

01:24:51   iPad Pro I want the one that I have and I'm happy that they make it so I'm happy

01:24:56   that they split the line into more products now I just think that they have

01:25:02   ways to go to still to make it clearer from a branding and naming perspective

01:25:08   and to make it clearer on features and again that goes back to what we were

01:25:13   talking about earlier about again like the hard disk drives in the iMacs like

01:25:17   that is a level of complexity in that product decision that shouldn't be there

01:25:22   like you shouldn't even make that a question in people's mind like if they

01:25:27   want to downgrade their Mac and put a hard drive in it to save money great but

01:25:32   Like, when you put them in your store window, you don't put hard drives as one of the configuration

01:25:38   options.

01:25:39   It just makes no sense.

01:25:40   Like, I think that they have so much stuff that they have to do, like they lose it in

01:25:44   some areas.

01:25:45   I think this is one of those, again, like you've had this product out for a few months,

01:25:50   there's now another one, but you put them side by side, you list their features, and

01:25:55   like it looks like a... it makes the buying decision more confusing.

01:26:00   So what you're saying is, part of that is a name problem, just because the names are

01:26:06   kind of weird.

01:26:07   And the other part is, there are some features that are maybe too old for them to be a valid

01:26:16   choice at this point.

01:26:19   And you're just making people confused.

01:26:21   I actually think part of it is, this kind of sounds weird so bear with me for a moment,

01:26:26   is them having a little bit too much pride in their product innovation.

01:26:32   They put the True Tone display out now because it's ready and they like it and they think

01:26:35   it's great, when they could have waited.

01:26:38   But they want to have it out because it's awesome, but you could have just waited and

01:26:44   it would have been fine.

01:26:45   Would you regret shipping the True Tone display now or not shipping it?

01:26:51   Because to me it seems more like it's more of a problem for you or for me because we

01:26:55   don't have the True Tone Display on the iPad Pro that we like, then it is for people who

01:26:59   do want the small iPad Pro.

01:27:01   So much of this about the True Tone Display is laced in the fact that I'm throwing my

01:27:06   toys out of the pram because everybody's getting something that I don't have.

01:27:10   But it is one of those things where it's like "I just bought this.

01:27:14   Like I just bought it."

01:27:16   It wasn't a year ago, but it was what, like three months ago?

01:27:20   November.

01:27:21   Yeah.

01:27:22   Okay, so maybe a little bit longer.

01:27:23   Five.

01:27:24   Five.

01:27:25   We're getting to the sixth month area, which maybe means it's not so bad.

01:27:29   But you know, it's just like, I just wonder, like, my main thing about it now is just,

01:27:34   it was looking at that screenshot today.

01:27:36   I mean, it's actually laid out pretty badly on the page anyway.

01:27:41   It is, it is.

01:27:42   But like, you look at it, it's like, oh, one of these is a whole line longer.

01:27:46   There's different numbers all over the place.

01:27:48   There must be some differences.

01:27:49   Yeah, like I looked at it, I was like, what's happening?

01:27:53   I did the same yesterday.

01:27:55   It's like, just tighten it up.

01:27:59   Just keep it tight.

01:28:01   They've always had that issue, and I

01:28:02   think it's sort of inherent to the subject matter when

01:28:05   the differences are technical.

01:28:06   How do you explain that?

01:28:08   And even when they do, it's like, True Tone Display,

01:28:10   it's like, well, what does that actually mean if I haven't

01:28:12   already read the product page?

01:28:15   I think their problem is they are a systemically small

01:28:18   product line company with a big product line.

01:28:21   Yeah.

01:28:22   I think part of Apple still thinks they have that four product grid in place.

01:28:25   Yeah, yeah.

01:28:27   I was just about to say that some people, either within Apple or outside Apple,

01:28:31   still have some sort of fascination with the Steve Jobs grid of four products.

01:28:36   But it's not that way anymore, clearly.

01:28:38   And maybe the other part of the problem is that sometimes the names are just too fancy.

01:28:43   I mean, I know it sounds dumb, but call it the small iPad Pro and the big iPad Pros,

01:28:48   people can understand.

01:28:49   iPad Pro and iPad Pro Mini, it's a mouthful, but that really would have told you what they

01:28:55   were.

01:28:56   You know, true tone display, I mean, just call it, you know, better color display. I

01:29:02   know that they sound kind of dumb, but people want to like, look at a table and know what

01:29:08   it means. You know, I'm looking, true tone display, okay, what does it mean true tone?

01:29:12   You know, I'm saying tone, what's a tone, you know? Are we talking about music? You

01:29:16   That kind of stuff. People don't understand. And maybe sometimes, while they do fail, to

01:29:23   an extent, at presentation. You're showing two lists side by side, there's no easy way

01:29:29   to see what's different. Sometimes they do have an over-complex naming matrix. So they

01:29:37   have these fancy names and what do they even mean. And maybe the other part of the problem

01:29:44   is with us, that many of us in the tech scene, we do like pretty tables, we do like neat

01:29:55   lists, you know, we do like to have it simple, you know, it's either computer A, computer

01:30:01   B, phone 1, phone 2, we're done. But, you know, these companies, it's not just Apple,

01:30:08   Microsoft, Google, Amazon, they do sell across the globe.

01:30:14   And people are different.

01:30:17   The world is not the valley.

01:30:21   The world is vast and large, and different people

01:30:24   need different things.

01:30:25   And it's almost absurd that we have to say this.

01:30:29   But Apple's product line is not made for Silicon Valley.

01:30:34   I think that's safe to say.

01:30:36   And so it kind of makes sense, you know, to have...

01:30:40   There's a tweet going around, it's kind of viral,

01:30:43   of someone saying, you know,

01:30:45   "When Steve Jobs came back to Apple,

01:30:47   he needed to simplify the product line."

01:30:49   The big difference is, you know,

01:30:51   Apple now sells to billions of people,

01:30:53   and when Steve Jobs came back, they were almost bankrupt.

01:30:57   So that's just a tiny difference.

01:30:59   - Yeah, I think that referring it to that now

01:31:02   is a bit weird, like I don't know.

01:31:03   - Yeah, it's a bit weird.

01:31:04   - But Apple do it themselves though, right?

01:31:06   was at WWDC last year when they showed that thing of all the products on the side and

01:31:11   they're like, "This is all we sell. It's one slide."

01:31:13   Kind of.

01:31:14   Yeah. So there's 19 iPads back there.

01:31:17   You've just laid 19 up and we can only see one, right? If you shifted one, you'd start

01:31:22   to see them all like dominoes in the distance. But this is what I mean. They are the small

01:31:29   product line company with a big product line. They just can't seem to break that. We've

01:31:33   got such a huge diversion.

01:31:35   I would say there's one last thing to sort of,

01:31:38   well, one and a half little things left to consider is one--

01:31:41   - Two things.

01:31:42   - Two things.

01:31:43   One, when Apple has introduced new hardware features

01:31:47   to iOS devices, they generally do it one at a time.

01:31:50   So like, even today, 3D Touch and Touch ID

01:31:52   still only on one phone.

01:31:54   When they added, I mean, that's still an example

01:31:59   I can think of, but there are other examples, right?

01:32:01   They move sort of slowly in this area,

01:32:04   And maybe that's a yield thing,

01:32:06   maybe it's that they wanna make sure it sticks, who knows?

01:32:09   But secondly, again, like what I talked about

01:32:12   when we opened the segment,

01:32:14   like they have moved into treating the iPad like a notebook

01:32:17   or like a computer, like the Mac.

01:32:19   And there's a 21 1/2 inch and a 27 inch iMac.

01:32:23   And there's a whole bunch of range in there

01:32:26   and you can customize it to a degree,

01:32:28   but there's one device and two classes.

01:32:32   And I think really that they are just trying to treat the iPad differently.

01:32:36   They treat it like the iPhone for so long and clearly that doesn't work.

01:32:39   And now we have the iPad air two, which is, you know, when they are to come out

01:32:44   2014, I guess a year and a half old now and they haven't updated it, but that's

01:32:49   fine because it's still a really capable tablet and maybe they are slowing it down

01:32:54   and are treating it differently because their current path hasn't worked.

01:32:58   And if this is, you know, it's confusing now,

01:33:02   but I think ultimately, like maybe we're coming at this

01:33:05   from the iPhone perspective,

01:33:07   and we should be coming at it from the Mac and saying,

01:33:09   hey, you know what you want to map a care of which size?

01:33:11   And you know what, even between the 11 and 13 share,

01:33:14   there are differences.

01:33:15   And this is, feels weird right now

01:33:18   because it's still kind of new to the iPad line.

01:33:20   But my guess is that in a couple of years

01:33:22   that this will feel kind of like how the iPad's always been.

01:33:25   But we are in this transition of,

01:33:28   not necessarily products even, but a transition of language around the iPad

01:33:31   and Apple hasn't figured all that out yet. Like you said, they call it different

01:33:34   things at different points. But I think they'll get there and I think that

01:33:39   ultimately, whether this works or not, I don't know, but I think ultimately it will

01:33:43   sort of congeal into something that makes more sense for more people.

01:33:49   Alright, so the camera has a bump. It does. It has a picture lens. Matthew

01:33:56   Pansarino took some photos and a little video to try and indicate the fact that

01:34:01   when laid out on a desk the bump doesn't seem to make the iPad wobble. This is

01:34:09   like a quick sidebar. There doesn't seem to be an embargo on these products which

01:34:13   is really weird. Interesting yeah. I don't know what that means I assume it's just

01:34:20   because they're kind of visent like these aren't like massive products. Yeah

01:34:24   Yeah, just do whatever.

01:34:26   Just like whatever, take pictures, just go crazy.

01:34:29   Maybe Apple are testing this approach with these products.

01:34:33   What happens if you just say like, "Three, two, one, go!"

01:34:36   And the first one to write the review is the winner.

01:34:39   I don't know what you win, but you win something.

01:34:42   I'm surprised that we haven't already seen a review today from a big site.

01:34:45   Seriously, that's a surprise to me that there hasn't been one yet.

01:34:49   Maybe it's like an arms race.

01:34:53   the new smaller keyboard. There's a bunch of cases, smart cases and smart covers for

01:34:59   the 9.7 inch iPad Pro that are in a load of lovely colors. The 12.9, still gray and white.

01:35:06   I don't know what's going on there.

01:35:09   Makes me sad.

01:35:10   Yeah, it makes me very sad.

01:35:11   Yeah, because the big one is for work and work is all gray and serious.

01:35:15   It's the fun professional iPad, the serious professional iPad.

01:35:19   Yes.

01:35:20   you layouts for the keyboard yet? Federico, did Apple tell you this or was it the software

01:35:24   keyboard they said would have international layout?

01:35:27   The smart keyboard would have international layouts, but it doesn't seem to be the case

01:35:31   yet.

01:35:32   That has not happened, has it?

01:35:33   Nope.

01:35:34   Nope. Okay, that's good to know. Let's talk about this USB camera adapter. Phil Schiller

01:35:39   called out on stage that you could power a mic from this new USB camera adapter. So I

01:35:47   I just wanted to address this with you guys.

01:35:49   Uh, there's still other stuff that we need.

01:35:53   Once again.

01:35:54   Yes.

01:35:54   Okay.

01:35:55   This is a significant step forward in being able to produce podcasts on an iPad.

01:36:01   Because in theory, I could use the microphone equipment that I currently use.

01:36:08   That could go the same with all of us on our iPads now, which we couldn't do before.

01:36:12   Cause we have boxes that need to be powered.

01:36:14   It'd be great for voiceover stuff, right?

01:36:16   you're recording something locally, singing or doing video work or something, it's great.

01:36:21   Because now you can use basically any USB hub in theory. I mean I don't know how powerful this is.

01:36:25   I'm gonna try it. I ordered one of these USB adapters. I'm gonna try it with my USB pre

01:36:31   when it comes in. I think it may work but we'll see. But there is a big part, actually a bigger

01:36:38   part really, because there's still USB microphones you could use before this thing, which is

01:36:44   applications being able to be in place that you could have a conversation like this either via

01:36:50   FaceTime or via Skype and also record local audio and the call audio like you can do on a Mac.

01:36:57   Like there needs to be multiple audio streams that can all be recorded by applications.

01:37:02   This doesn't exist in iOS. Jason is very hopeful that Phil Schiller calling out podcasting on stage

01:37:09   means they're maybe going to work on this, like that was a specific thing to reference.

01:37:14   Fingers crossed, because genuinely, I think people think I don't want this to happen,

01:37:22   because they think that I restrict you Federico. No, that's not, it's never really been the case,

01:37:29   and that's not the case anymore. Anyway, my feeling was always like, with how it has been,

01:37:34   I just don't want to have to go through that because I know that you and Fraser record this because Fraser Fraser does does the

01:37:42   Two device setup. I just don't like it because then I have to hear a lower quality

01:37:48   version of you when we stream live everybody else will hear a low quality version of you because what Fraser's does and what people say

01:37:56   That you can do which you can is record like to use a Skype call over and I found with a headset like that is perfectly

01:38:02   doable but I just don't think it is the setup that I want to use or that I want you to use

01:38:09   and I know you don't either.

01:38:11   When I want to have my phone free so you know if there's an emergency people can call me

01:38:17   even if I'm podcasting you know if something serious happens I want to be reachable at

01:38:21   any time so I don't want to use my phone.

01:38:24   No. So fingers crossed, iOS 10 brings more audio APIs and more capabilities for audio.

01:38:33   Because I would really love to be able to take a trip and just be able to record using

01:38:40   my iPad. Like I wouldn't do it at home. I'm not going to do it at home. Like me, I have

01:38:45   this great Mac set up here. Everything works the way exactly that I want it to be. But

01:38:49   if I'm recording on location or I'm away from this and I want to be able to record something,

01:38:53   It'd be great to do a podcast just using my iPad and some equipment that I can put in

01:38:56   the back.

01:38:57   That would be A++.

01:38:59   And I would be totally happy personally with you doing it then after we've done some tests.

01:39:04   Okay.

01:39:05   Fingers crossed.

01:39:06   But Federico, you bought the most exciting product announced in the event.

01:39:09   Well, I mean, I think it's safe to say this is the real deal from the event, which is

01:39:15   the 29W USB-C adapter with the new USB-C to Lightning cable, which as Apple lovely explains

01:39:25   on the website, you can now use for fast charging on the bigger iPad Pro. So not on the new

01:39:33   9.7 inch, on the traditional 12.9 inch iPad Pro, you can rely on faster charging. I already

01:39:41   use the 12W adapter that Apple gives you with the iPad Pro. But even faster charging sounds

01:39:50   even better to me, so I bought the set, so the adapter and the cable, it's shipping

01:39:57   in 3 to 5 days, so hopefully next week I will have my fancy charging setup. Which is really

01:40:04   exciting, you know? Hopefully, the iPad Pro changes real slowly, because it's got a

01:40:09   big battery. Hopefully with this thing I can go you know just a couple of hours

01:40:13   for a full charge we'll see.

01:40:16   Alright so the iPad Pro 9.7 starts at 32 gigabytes for $599 and then it goes to

01:40:22   128 for $749 and 256 gigabytes for $899 and Steven you mentioned a little bit

01:40:28   earlier about the price difference here to the Air.

01:40:33   Yeah I mean I think they're pitching it as a more serious high-end product and

01:40:39   And I mean, that makes sense right there too.

01:40:42   And it is not only older,

01:40:43   which I don't think much people care about,

01:40:44   but you look at this thing,

01:40:46   a little bit more money,

01:40:48   I guess $200 more,

01:40:49   you get pencil and keyboard support

01:40:52   and you get speakers. - Four and a half or $200.

01:40:54   - Yeah. (laughing)

01:40:55   I mean, either they couldn't hit the $499 price point,

01:40:59   which maybe they couldn't,

01:41:00   or they wanted to make a statement

01:41:03   that this is a different machine than what it replaced.

01:41:07   - Oh no, I mean, you get pencil and keyboard support

01:41:10   when you lay out another $200.

01:41:12   - Right, and so the question for me is,

01:41:14   if they could have hit $499,

01:41:16   would they have replaced the Air 2,

01:41:19   or the Air 2 still have gone down in price?

01:41:21   I think the Air still would have gone down in price

01:41:23   because Apple seems to want an iPad

01:41:25   at every conceivable price point right now.

01:41:29   But is it gonna replace the Air 2 eventually?

01:41:32   Are we gonna have the iPad Mini and then the iPad Air

01:41:35   and then two models of Pro?

01:41:37   Like I said earlier, it's a transition.

01:41:39   I just don't know where they're transitioning to yet.

01:41:41   So I guess we'll just see over the course of time

01:41:43   what, how this shakes out.

01:41:45   - Bringing the Air 2 down to 399 is weird

01:41:47   because they didn't move the Mini 4.

01:41:50   - Oh, do they not?

01:41:51   Is it the same price? - No.

01:41:52   The Mini 4 is 399.

01:41:53   - That is, and it's not as good as the Air 2, right?

01:41:55   Or are they the same now?

01:41:57   - They're pretty much the same, I think.

01:41:58   - It's just smaller.

01:42:00   - Then the iPad Mini 2 is now 269.

01:42:03   - I can't believe they still sell that thing.

01:42:05   (laughing)

01:42:06   Well, it's the new iPad Air 2, right? Like it stays around for a while.

01:42:11   Oh yeah, my gosh, yeah.

01:42:13   Are any of us gonna buy the 9 7?

01:42:15   Nope.

01:42:16   Nope.

01:42:17   All right, Federico, why are you not getting it?

01:42:20   Because the benefits that it supposedly brings are not as essential to me as what the bigger

01:42:27   iPad Pro does, which is 2GB of more RAM. And I know, I know, it's got a bigger display,

01:42:33   maybe those two gigs are only useful for the bigger display, but I like to future-proof

01:42:39   my purchases. I like to know that I'm using the most powerful hardware around. I mean,

01:42:44   if I were a Mac user, I'd totally buy the most powerful Mac I could, because I just

01:42:49   want to have the most powerful tool I can afford for what I need to do. And also, really,

01:42:56   I love iOS on the bigger display. I wouldn't be able to go back to a smaller iOS that it's

01:43:03   just with split view that it's not as comfortable to use, I do love the experience on the bigger

01:43:09   iPad Pro. And then it's just what the 9.7" iPad Pro brings, the True Tone display and

01:43:17   the better camera, I just don't care. Night shift is enough for me to balance the white

01:43:24   colors of the UI. I don't take pictures with the iPad Pro, so I don't really care about

01:43:30   the camera. For those reasons I'm going to stick with the bigger iPad Pro because it's

01:43:36   more powerful, it's more comfortable. And it's actually more comfortable because it's

01:43:41   bigger. Because the iOS experience is bigger, the apps are bigger, the split view is easier

01:43:47   to use, so I'm going to stick with that.

01:43:53   I am appealed by the portability of the 9.7, like just it being able to be easier to put

01:44:00   like in places and carry around and it'd be lighter and stuff but, you know like the idea

01:44:04   of being able to hold my iPad in one hand really really easily like I can and I do hold

01:44:11   my Pro in one hand but like being able to just, I don't know, put my hand around the

01:44:16   whole thing and write on it and walk around like it just be more secure, it'd be nice

01:44:20   But I remember the reason I love iPad in general is because of the screen size of the iPad Pro,

01:44:27   the 12.9. I have an Air 2, it's sitting right here, and I started to come around to that with

01:44:32   split view. I was like, "Oh, this is nice, this is nice." But what tipped me over the edge was

01:44:35   the 12.9 inch screen. Like that was the last kind of bastion to fall for me to really show

01:44:41   the usefulness of what these devices can be. And this was underscore for me this morning,

01:44:45   and I was sitting downstairs on my sofa and I was working and I was flicking between applications

01:44:51   as I do now going from one thing to the other and splitting them in half and you know typing in one

01:44:56   copy and paste in the other I'm like I'm not going back from this screen size. Two full size apps

01:45:02   side by side pretty much like you have to pry that away from my content hands now like I love the way

01:45:09   that that works and this this 12 9 screen size I can't see me moving away

01:45:15   from that for quite some time. But Steven I know that you're maybe not as deep

01:45:21   into this and you've always been a you've always liked that 9 7 size you

01:45:26   don't think you're not even tempted? No I mean for the reasons that you two both

01:45:32   laid out so well but also the software keyboard is yeah finally I can type on a

01:45:38   iOS device comfortably and that's a big deal for me like you know not knowing

01:45:46   how this new smart keyboard is you know maybe that would change my mind a little

01:45:48   bit but I've gotten really good at the software keyboard if the thing is in

01:45:53   landscape and the size is really what unlocked you know kind of being able to

01:45:59   do some work on the thing and yes there's you know obviously pain points in

01:46:04   the software still like this new Air won't have the problem of apps being

01:46:08   upscaled like the Facebook app still or like Google Drive was or Google Docs was

01:46:12   until very recently but for me like you Myke what's different about the 12.9

01:46:19   inch is what has made me use the iPad more and so to give that up to something

01:46:25   that I would like to be more portable I would love to have an iPad I could use

01:46:28   in bed comfortably and one of these days I'm gonna rage buy an iPad Mini to solve

01:46:32   that problem but until then it is

01:46:35   tempting for that sort of use but when I

01:46:37   think about what makes this iPad sticky

01:46:39   for me in my workflow it's all about the

01:46:42   screen size. I tell you about the keyboard

01:46:46   one thing I want to know is if the 9.7

01:46:49   pro has a split keyboard?

01:46:52   Hmm that's a good question. It has the old

01:46:56   iPad keyboard like the Air 2 has

01:46:59   so my guess is that it does and that

01:47:01   they did that as a size thing but you ought to go ask Panzerino but he could tell you.

01:47:07   I'm sure he could. Alright that wraps it up for this week's episode. If you want to find

01:47:11   our show notes head on over to relay.fm/connected/83. Thanks again to Membeful, Squarespace and igloo

01:47:19   for supporting this week's episode. You can head on over to 512pixels.net for all of Stephen's work

01:47:24   and lots of stuff about old computers and some stuff about new computers. You can head on over

01:47:29   to MacStories.net and you can find out things about apps and new computers. This is really

01:47:38   like falling apart for me. Touchscreen computers. Touchscreens, yeah lots of touchscreen stuff

01:47:42   and some not touchscreen stuff and you can go to michaelsright.com for like just some

01:47:48   weird stuff really. I don't even know what goes there. I am @imichaelsright on Twitter

01:47:53   I am YKE, Steven is at ISMH, Federico is at Vitiici, V-I-T-I-C-C-I.

01:47:59   They will be back next week, I'm not here again, I'm sorry, I do love you all, I want

01:48:02   you to know that.

01:48:03   I will come back the week after, I promise.

01:48:05   Until then, say goodbye guys.

01:48:06   Arrivederci.

01:48:07   Adios.

01:48:07   Adios!