0:00:00[Music]
0:00:06From Real AFM, this is Connected episode number 70. Today's show is brought to you
0:00:11by lynda.com and Squarespace. My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined by
0:00:15Steven Hackett. Hey, caught me off guard there Myke. Yeah
0:00:20I usually, see I know that, I usually go for Federico first, I don't know why so I
0:00:23decided I would change it up today but Federico is here too. Hi Federico.
0:00:26Oh hey, how are you?
0:00:27I'm very well, I'm very well indeed. This is our last episode before the holidays.
0:00:33Are you in a festive mood, Myke?
0:00:35Oh, very festive. If I had bells to jingle, I would be jingling them right now.
0:00:39Okay, I'm very happy to hear that, Myke.
0:00:42But I have no bells to jingle.
0:00:44No?
0:00:45Not today.
0:00:46That's too bad, Myke.
0:00:48It's a real shame, it is a real shame. But yeah, we are in the festive mood. We're not
0:00:52not going to be here next week so you're going to have to listen to this show super slowly
0:00:56so it will fill you across two weeks.
0:00:58You can put the show at 0.1x, it'll last you until Christmas day.
0:01:04Exactly, just listen to it in parts, you know, ration it out.
0:01:08But I'm very excited for our episode in two weeks time though, we're going to bring back
0:01:12what we did last year I think, which was a round up of the year's tech stories.
0:01:17I like looking back and seeing how ridiculous it is,
0:01:21of how concerned we were about certain things.
0:01:23It's always fun to realize just how crazy you can be.
0:01:29So we're gonna be doing that in a couple of weeks.
0:01:31That is a show that takes a ton of work.
0:01:34Go over everything in the last year.
0:01:38- As you were talking, I was putting it into OmniFocus
0:01:40to start preparation for that next week.
0:01:42- Yep, I have my task already and you should add it to To Do.
0:01:45We haven't spoken about To Do yet.
0:01:47We should talk about that at some point.
0:01:49I still haven't read your magnum opus to it.
0:01:52- Yeah, I was finished with the to-do review
0:01:57and I got started on my end of the year stuff,
0:02:00which always takes so much time.
0:02:03But I'm almost done, you know?
0:02:06I don't wanna spoil it.
0:02:07I got a little change this year,
0:02:10wanted to kind of change things up a little.
0:02:13It's almost done.
0:02:14I would love to send what I prepared before Christmas, but I don't know if I have the time, so we'll see.
0:02:21I want to surprise my people. So the end of the year stuff is always so, you know, complex.
0:02:29Is this surprise because it's your favorite Mac apps? Is that the surprise?
0:02:34Yes.
0:02:35Federico Vittucci returns to the Mac to get real work done.
0:02:38No, the real surprise is that I've watched Star Wars.
0:02:43We're not talking about Star Wars on this show.
0:02:45Well, there's not much to talk about.
0:02:47It might be the only show that we don't talk about, that anybody doesn't talk about Star Wars on in the next couple of weeks.
0:02:52But we're not doing it, so don't worry everyone. No spoilers, no even discussion of how we feel about the movie.
0:02:58Is it fair to say we're anti-Star Wars?
0:03:02No, that is not fair to say.
0:03:04Okay, well I tried.
0:03:06I'm just going to start follow up right now.
0:03:08Turns out Myke was half right or half of Myke was right, it's hard to say.
0:03:15But according to a survey, half of Apple Watch users admit to having nose tapped, which means
0:03:21they probably more have and they just feel weird about it and didn't say anything to
0:03:25their friends.
0:03:26But it's a thing apparently.
0:03:28My claim was never that everyone in the world would do it.
0:03:32My claim was just that people do it.
0:03:35And I am once again proven right in this scenario. Everybody said that I was wrong or said that
0:03:43I was crazy, but now look at what's happened. I mean, maybe they asked two people and I
0:03:47was one of those people, but I think it may have been a few more than that.
0:03:51Were you on a survey, Myke?
0:03:53I was not on a survey, no. Neither did I know that this survey existed and I had no hand
0:03:58in it.
0:03:59- Yeah, so this was done by a company named Wristley,
0:04:03which apparently what they do is insight into wearables,
0:04:07so that's an interesting business,
0:04:08but actually no, just Apple Watch.
0:04:11The independent voice of Apple Watch
0:04:13is what their website says.
0:04:14So take that with a grain of salt
0:04:16that they're just looking at this,
0:04:17but it seems that people do it,
0:04:19and I mean it's cool that Myke was right,
0:04:22had one little burst of activity
0:04:23right here at the end of the year.
0:04:25- Yep, as we transition to the year of Frederica.
0:04:28which has been going on quite strongly on Twitter
0:04:31under the hashtag #YearOfTeachey.
0:04:34You can find already a few pictures of people,
0:04:37listeners and Mac service readers
0:04:40trying to use their iPads as a work setup.
0:04:44And there's a few articles in there.
0:04:46So if you're planning on switching to the iPad
0:04:49for the next year as part of your New Year's resolutions,
0:04:53make sure to tweet at us with the hashtag #YearOfTeachee.
0:04:58And we'll make sure to have a little roundup maybe
0:05:02in the future, we'll have special mentions.
0:05:04And in general, you'll just be an awesome person if you do.
0:05:07So let's prove the next year we can properly succeed,
0:05:12Michael, in a very awesome fashion.
0:05:17- Moving on. (laughs)
0:05:18- Yeah, so moving on is an example, perhaps,
0:05:22of "T.G. was right."
0:05:24(laughing)
0:05:26So I ended up finally getting my iPad Pro thoughts together.
0:05:31Published this earlier this week.
0:05:33And I guess the TLDR of my review is that it is,
0:05:38like for me, the iPad Pro is the first,
0:05:41marks the first time that I can feel like I can actually do
0:05:46part of my work on a tablet.
0:05:49And you know, we've talked a lot about that over the years
0:05:51it's there's still problems with it I go into some of those actual things that I
0:05:56can only do on the Mac and and and all this is colored by the fact that I
0:06:00prefer the Mac but it is interesting and I think the iPad Pro is sort of this like
0:06:07fork in the road or like line of the sand is the phrase I used that it is
0:06:13sort of a tipping point into the tablets being more approachable for different
0:06:19types of work and I find that really interesting and I really feel the more and more I think
0:06:24about it that this is one of those points that we're going to look back at and say hey
0:06:28you know this was this was a real inflection point at least for some people and so as you
0:06:34can get rid of it it's up on 512. Yeah there you go. Every day I edge closer and closer
0:06:42to just doing more and more stuff on my iPad. Like I'm even getting that call of like things
0:06:48that I would do on the Mac or that I think are easier on the Mac and I think to myself
0:06:53"how could I make it easier on the iPad?" and every day I feel like I'm getting just
0:06:59closer and closer to doing more and more and more stuff on it. I really do a lot of work
0:07:03on it now that I wouldn't have done before. I'm sitting down at my iMac less and less
0:07:08in a day.
0:07:11Look at you two, I'm so happy.
0:07:12I know, you're rubbing off on us.
0:07:14Yeah, yeah, I mean for me
0:07:16Well as I say real quick for me that that's definitely true and the they're like the writing part of my job
0:07:23Still a lot of what I do even for a relay on the business side
0:07:28I am still a bunch faster and prefer the Mac
0:07:31But it's what it what the difference for me is right now
0:07:34Is that I feel like I have options for the first time that I don't have to be on my Mac for a lot
0:07:38Of stuff and I feel like I had to in the past and that's been really freeing
0:07:41Like I wrote this review an article that I just wrote for I'm or just went up this morning
0:07:46I wrote on the iPad like being able to break away and move away from my desk and go work somewhere else
0:07:51Without taking my heavy MacBook Pro is nice
0:07:54So going on from this people will remember from last week's episode that Tony was bringing a smart keyboard to me
0:08:03Tony actually arrived during the episode when I picked up my smart keyboard
0:08:08board so I've had it for a week now and it's been attached to my iPad constantly
0:08:13like I use it as my stand now as well because it does a good job of standing
0:08:17the iPad up in like the vertical position that I like you know when the
0:08:20the iPad is in landscape mode but it's like up in the air right I don't even
0:08:24know what you'd call that the way that you watch TV on it right so you stand it
0:08:28up so it does that which is great I'm happy that it does that and I I like it
0:08:33I like it quite a lot. The keys are fine for me. I can see why people that write thousands of words
0:08:40a week wouldn't want to use this keyboard. I can see why that would be the case. I don't think
0:08:46that's definitely the case but I can see why people wouldn't want to do that because it feels
0:08:50different. But I like it feels so different. It's kind of weird. It for me has the pleasure of
0:08:56typing on the iPad but more so. If I've ever typed on the iPad there's something that's
0:09:03different that I quite like about just like hitting the glass like it just has a different
0:09:06kind of feeling to it. It's like "ah look at me go" like "ah" that's the sound that
0:09:10I make when I type on the iPad. And the smart keyboard is nice I don't know it's like this
0:09:16kind of like snapping sound I don't know I quite like it. I can live with the US layout
0:09:23because I'm getting used to using the iPad Pro with the key sizes all being like that
0:09:28so what am I going to do? Like I can get used to it. I'm not saying anything that nobody
0:09:34else has said really. I mean I think it is a shame that there are no specific iOS keys
0:09:38for anything. That it's effectively a Mac keyboard attached to an iPad. And I think
0:09:45that some of the shortcuts are a bit ham-fisted. Like command shift H to go home. It's like
0:09:50like
0:10:12on the Mac is you have to hold it right to activate it but that's not the case
0:10:16with the smart keyboard so very frequently I'm typing things in all caps
0:10:20now when I don't need to and I have had some issues that are widely reported
0:10:26that sometimes sometimes the keyboard doesn't work but more strangely the
0:10:30keyboard works but the shortcuts don't work so like command shift H stops
0:10:34working command space or spotlight stops working the command tab stops working
0:10:38but I can still type with it. Have you seen that Federico?
0:10:41Yeah, same, especially with the home screen shortcut.
0:10:45Yeah, why just that? That doesn't make any sense to me.
0:10:49The rest of the keyboard works, but the shortcut's done.
0:10:52Half of the time it doesn't work. For some reason I have no idea.
0:10:55Sometimes if I disconnect the keyboard and reconnect it, it works,
0:10:58but sometimes I have to reboot my iPad.
0:11:00The worst part is when the software keyboard somehow gets stuck,
0:11:07So you can still see the software keyboard even when the hardware keyboard is connected
0:11:11So you gotta unplug from the smart connector and you gotta replug again. It's
0:11:15weird bugs. Something else I also don't like, it enables the US software keyboard in my keyboard switcher
0:11:22Even if I turn it off, so I turn it off
0:11:24I just have UK and emoji, but then when I connect the smart keyboard it brings the US one back again
0:11:30There's nothing I could do to get rid of it. So I have now three keyboards that I switch between on software
0:11:36Lot of complaining but I like it. I do really like it it works for me
0:11:40It's a nice thing to just have a keyboard there all the time
0:11:44And is that does that add a lot of bulk to it?
0:11:47When you're carrying it around like in sort of like case configuration not so much that bothers me
0:11:51I mean the iPad Pro is already so big and ungainly and wildly adding like just it's basically like one and a half
0:11:59Smart covers it's not an issue because it's already so huge
0:12:04And it's already heavy, so it's not like super heavy, but like you know it's already heavier than another iPad
0:12:10It's already heavier and bigger than you would maybe like it to be right, but so adding the smart keyboard for me
0:12:16Doesn't really add too much of a bother. Even the regular smart cover is heavier
0:12:22Yeah, than I expected it to be. Because it's big right? It's just big. Big and get big chunks of metal in it and it's
0:12:30I used to always, on my Air 2, when I had a Mini,
0:12:34I'd always keep the smart cover on,
0:12:36even just using it around the house.
0:12:38And I've really gotten to a point
0:12:40where if I'm gonna use the iPad,
0:12:41I'll just take the smart cover off
0:12:43and just carry the iPad around the house
0:12:44and then kind of only use the smart cover
0:12:47if I'm putting it in my bag or taking it somewhere.
0:12:49Which is probably gonna end poorly at some point for me,
0:12:51but it really is heavier and bulkier than I like, honestly.
0:12:58For me an iPad isn't an iPad without a smart cover.
0:13:01- Yeah, there is that aspect to it for sure.
0:13:03I mean, they've been around since about the iPad 2.
0:13:05I remember that video they had,
0:13:07and they had this cool animation on their website.
0:13:09You could drag the cursor and unfold.
0:13:11It was awesome.
0:13:14- It would fold and unfold, wouldn't it?
0:13:15- It was super cool.
0:13:17- But the idea of the case,
0:13:19closing and opening the case,
0:13:20locking and unlocking the iPad,
0:13:22is like, that's what an iPad is to me.
0:13:25that is it. It's all that thing together. Remember that time Evernote made an app based
0:13:29around that? Yeah, what was that? It was like some sort of educational app? Yeah, it was
0:13:35like you could make flip cards or like help you study or something. I don't know, I'm
0:13:38sure they've sunsetted it. Yeah, I'm sure they have sunset everything. But yeah, I do
0:13:43like it though. I like that your keyboard's always there. I like that it's part of the
0:13:47Smart Cover. You know, like it's all integrated and it's just there whenever I need it. I
0:13:51just flip it out, type out an email, put it back again. It's nice, I like it, you know,
0:13:55because I don't have to think about it, I don't have to take the stand and the keyboard
0:13:58with me somewhere, it's just all integrated. Federico, are you still using the smart keyboard?
0:14:03Yeah. And do you like it as much as I do? I mean, I have problems with it, but overall
0:14:08I do really like it. I like it, and if I had to use a physical keyboard regularly, I would
0:14:15probably go with the smart keyboard. My opinion hasn't changed since my review. It's just
0:14:20that I just prefer to write with a software keyboard.
0:14:24You know?
0:14:25OK.
0:14:26My to-do review was all done with the software one.
0:14:29This new article that I'm preparing for the end of the year,
0:14:32all done with the software keyboard.
0:14:33I'm just too used to typing on Glass at this point.
0:14:37That does not surprise me, because you did it for so long.
0:14:40I still haven't gotten used to the layout of the iPad Pro's
0:14:45keyboard.
0:14:46I'm still switching--
0:14:47Yeah.
0:14:48When I say I've gotten used to it,
0:14:49I still have issues, but I'm more used to it now than I was when I started, but it still does drive me a little crazy.
0:14:57Especially because I do use a regular keyboard frequently as well.
0:15:01So I am probably more than you even, switching between layouts.
0:15:07Yeah, for some reason I'm still accidentally switching between the Italian and the American keyboard.
0:15:15I'm still mistyping, you know, special characters like quotes and apostrophes, that kind of stuff.
0:15:22I'm still not perfect with the software keyboard.
0:15:26But I think I'm doing better than last month when the Pro came out, so I'll probably be
0:15:31fine in a few months.
0:15:33I just wish that Apple, you know, kinda had better integration with the hardware keyboard
0:15:41throughout iOS.
0:15:42I feel like with deeper integration I would probably use the smart keyboard more, especially
0:15:47because I spend most of my time at home.
0:15:50When I'm at my desk or in the kitchen I can use a physical keyboard.
0:15:54When I'm around I want to use the software one of course.
0:15:59So we'll see.
0:16:00We'll see how it changes.
0:16:04Last thing I wanted to mention in follow up today, Apple TV style.
0:16:08The BBC iPlayer is now on the Apple TV, but the interesting thing about it is that it
0:16:15just appeared.
0:16:17I didn't install it, but it's on my Apple TV, which feels more old Apple TV, right?
0:16:22That was what they did with the old one.
0:16:25But it's interesting that that is like a third party app that somehow was chosen to go on
0:16:31and others haven't.
0:16:34Why is BBC so important that they just get pushed onto the Apple TV?
0:16:39But it is a great app and you know, everyone in the UK wants it because it's good television
0:16:45that's free for us.
0:16:48But it's just interesting that it found its way kind of on its own.
0:16:55I'm not using my Apple TV at all.
0:16:58I'm using it more because I actually hooked it up to my TV, like my real TV downstairs
0:17:03in the living room and I'm finding myself using it more. I'm watching more on it. So
0:17:08that is an interesting thing that has occurred to me. I really wish there was an Amazon app
0:17:13because we're watching The Man in the High Castle and there's no way for me to watch
0:17:19it on the TV. So we're just bringing the iPad back downstairs again. You know you can airplay
0:17:24from the Amazon Prime app on the iPad. I can't find how you do that. I'm sure that you can
0:17:29but I'm not sure how to do it. Am I being dumb? You just do it through Control Center.
0:17:34That's where I've been missing it. I was looking in the UI of the application for an AirPlay button.
0:17:39Nope. No, they use the Control Center one and it works pretty well. That's how we've been watching
0:17:44it and I just set the iPad like on the we have a table within the couch and just set it there and
0:17:49watch it and I will say the our Apple TV the old one was like I said before definitely the center
0:17:56of our like entertainment center and it has definitely only become more so more
0:18:02so now. A lot of what we use it for during the day is just to play music and
0:18:06we used to generally switch over there's a Mac Mini hooked up to the television as
0:18:11well and we switch that and use iTunes on the Mac and the the new Apple TV is
0:18:16so much faster than the doing that you know used to be with through home
0:18:19sharing that was really like janky on the old one and sometimes it just drop
0:18:23its connection to your other home sharing device or account sharing
0:18:27devices for like no reason and that's much better now and so it really is like
0:18:31it's the default input on the TV and we rarely move away from it these days.
0:18:35Yeah I'm warming to it more and more and it's good to know about the AirPlay thing
0:18:39I've never used AirPlay which is why I didn't even know it was in the control
0:18:43center it just doesn't pay I don't pay any attention to it so I've never
0:18:46once used it so now I know that's there then we can at least watch the show that
0:18:51were watching on it as well.
0:18:52That's a top tip from connected to you.
0:18:55There you go. Thank you so much for that hot Hackett tip.
0:18:59This week's episode is brought to you by lynda.com, the online learning platform of over 3,000
0:19:04on demand video courses that are there to help you strengthen your business technology
0:19:08and creative skills. You can get yourself a free 10 day trial by visiting lynda.com/connected.
0:19:17Lender.com is there to help you learn things that you may have been interested in.
0:19:22So maybe something that you're curious in or maybe you have a job that you do or a hobby that you have
0:19:26and you want to get better in a certain aspect of it and you're not sure where to start.
0:19:30This is the type of stuff that Lender.com can help you with.
0:19:33They have video courses that are taught by people who are extremely well-versed in the topics that they're teaching.
0:19:40They're super passionate about it too and you can see that in the quality of the videos that they produce.
0:19:45You can stream any of their thousands of video courses on demand.
0:19:48You can learn at your own schedule and at your own pace.
0:19:50You can learn on the go with your Android and iOS devices.
0:19:53You can watch and download courses to them.
0:19:55And you can also follow on course transcripts that are in--
0:19:58you can watch it in the web browser.
0:19:59And you can see, depending on the type of learner that you are,
0:20:02maybe you like to read along.
0:20:03Or maybe you just like to read and reference things later on.
0:20:06You can do that with great transcripts.
0:20:08They have courses on all types of stuff.
0:20:10They have courses on software and hardware,
0:20:12So you can maybe learn how to use a photo editing application,
0:20:16maybe you want to learn Photoshop or something like that.
0:20:17But you can also learn the hardware section,
0:20:20like how do you light a good portrait?
0:20:22You can learn that sort of stuff on lynda.com as well.
0:20:24They have great design courses that can teach you things like how to use
0:20:27Illustrator. Um,
0:20:29but they can also teach you how to use color in your work and the importance
0:20:33that it can have. Then they also have things like masterclasses from designers.
0:20:37So a guy that I really love, Aaron Draplin,
0:20:39who does a lot of the Field Notes design work, did an incredible course, it's about 45 minutes
0:20:43long, just going through how he creates a logo and you just get to see his process and
0:20:49it's really really fascinating. Like lynda.com has training stuff but they also have stuff
0:20:52that's just kind of entertaining. There are some documentaries on there like the Helvetica
0:20:56documentary is on lynda.com, there is just so much stuff, it is such a fantastic wealth
0:21:00of information and the best way for you to try and understand what it's all about is
0:21:04to take advantage of the free 10 day trial that we can give you. With your lynda.com
0:21:08membership where if you decide to sign up you will get unlimited access to training
0:21:12on any of these hundreds of topics for one flat rate. Whether you're looking to become
0:21:15an industry expert, you're passionate about a hobby or you're just looking to learn something
0:21:19new, go ahead and visit lynda.com/connected, sign up for your free 10 day trial and check
0:21:24it out today. Thank you so much lynda.com for the continued support of Connected and
0:21:28Relay FM.
0:21:32- All right, so this is kind of like extended follow up,
0:21:35I guess.
0:21:36Steven, do you wanna take this away?
0:21:39- Yeah, so we spoke last week about Dropbox
0:21:42and the sunsetting of Mailbox and Carousel,
0:21:46their previous email and photo management
0:21:50solution type products.
0:21:52And we got some feedback on that from someone who--
0:21:57- Is it safe to say that we have our own tipster now?
0:22:00Yeah, very specific. Very specific tipster. A friend of the show. And there's a couple
0:22:06things to say that I thought were interesting that I wanted to talk about with the two of
0:22:09you guys. First, about carousel. And it seems, kind of, two things about carousel that I
0:22:16think are worth talking about. One is that photos were or slash are the most often stored
0:22:24data type in Dropbox. That more people are storing more photos than anything else in
0:22:30in Dropbox, which I think makes a lot of sense.
0:22:32You know, we have all used it, some of us still do,
0:22:35for our photo storage, and I think it makes
0:22:37a lot of sense, right?
0:22:38You get a backup in the cloud, you can sync it
0:22:39to another computer, and I think Carousel was sort of
0:22:43a response to that, of like, hey, people are already
0:22:45storing photos on Dropbox, let's surface them
0:22:48and make them more interesting and better and easier to use.
0:22:51And second, that Carousel actually had
0:22:53a big server-side component.
0:22:55If you guys remember, you would,
0:22:58once you uploaded your photos to Dropbox Carousel,
0:23:03would see them, you could scroll through them really quickly
0:23:05and did really fast thumbnailing.
0:23:07It did this really nice date scrubber thing,
0:23:09like a lot of kind of stuff that sat on top
0:23:12of what the normal Dropbox app would do.
0:23:14It turned your photos from like a bunch of directories
0:23:16into something sort of more living and breathing.
0:23:19And that apparently required a lot of infrastructure,
0:23:21which really makes our idea, our comments about like,
0:23:24well why not spin it off, why not sell it?
0:23:26Much more difficult, because apparently
0:23:29that was really integrated into
0:23:30the rest of what Dropbox does.
0:23:32I thought that was interesting.
0:23:34If this is true that Carousel was a sort of response
0:23:40to people really storing a bunch of photos on Dropbox,
0:23:42and Dropbox realizing that and wanting to make that better,
0:23:45then I like that thought process on the part of Dropbox
0:23:48that they saw what people were doing with their service
0:23:50and tried to make it better.
0:23:51Well what do you guys think?
0:23:52Yeah, I mean I can understand that like if I was the person in charge and I had that data point
0:23:58like the most often stored file in our system is photos.
0:24:03It like makes you a de facto photo management service so giving people tools to look after that stuff better
0:24:12is probably a smart thing to do.
0:24:15But that does kind of beg the question of if that is the case, then why is carousel still not around?
0:24:23Because I assume it's still the same, right? And I guess it was just because for whatever reason,
0:24:28I assumed that carousel just wasn't compelling to people. Like I know it wasn't really compelling to
0:24:34us because it didn't really have the features and maybe they just struggled to get it off the ground.
0:24:39But like you can see why it began that way, but obviously that changed.
0:24:44Yeah, and I'd imagine too that that sort of infrastructure thing had a real staffing cost
0:24:52and Carousel was free to use if you had a Dropbox account as far as I remember. So I
0:24:57think that that is part of it as well. It's great for a value add, but if you don't ever
0:25:03recoup those costs then maybe it didn't make sense from that perspective. And as we've
0:25:09talked about Dropbox is growing they're a big company and they are making this
0:25:12shift towards supporting businesses and enterprises which I think is the right decision
0:25:16for their business and maybe this just got kind of caught in the crossfire
0:25:19there those in that decision-making.
0:25:21Yeah I suppose so. The other the other bit is sort of more about about mailbox
0:25:27and sort of the overall picture you talking that talking about Dropbox
0:25:31moving towards business, moving towards enterprise, moving towards collaboration
0:25:34which is really the message there and that Dropbox for business especially
0:25:38especially I don't know if you guys,
0:25:39I have used it in the past with a client,
0:25:42they animated their team or whatever.
0:25:45Dropbox for Business is really nice
0:25:46and it gives you a lot of powerful tools
0:25:48for collaborating files.
0:25:49Like what we do at Relay,
0:25:51we have a bunch of shared Dropbox folders running around
0:25:53to sync MP3s around.
0:25:55And it's fine and it works,
0:25:56but it's sort of scattered and fragmented.
0:26:00Dropbox for Business gives you a central place for that,
0:26:02simple way to manage it all.
0:26:06And that and paper, which is Dropbox,
0:26:09if you haven't used it before,
0:26:11it's sort of like Google Docs,
0:26:12like it's trying to get there,
0:26:13where collaborative document editing
0:26:16and you can leave comments on documents
0:26:18and that sort of thing,
0:26:19about collaboration and people working together as a team.
0:26:23And mailbox and carousel didn't really fit into that.
0:26:27I would argue that mailbox could have,
0:26:30but they didn't get it there.
0:26:32- Yeah, it would have meant a different change.
0:26:34would have meant a vision change for what Mailbox was, but email is still an important
0:26:39part of collaboration. I mean, we're going to talk about Slack a little bit later on,
0:26:43it's a different story, but I think that you could make the argument that if you wanted
0:26:49it to be, Mailbox could have fit in this vision. It would have meant changing Mailbox, which
0:26:56I suppose they didn't want to do.
0:26:58Right, because I think we touched on this in the show, that there was this idea for
0:27:03permanent that Dropbox was going to become a solution like Exchange or Google Apps or
0:27:09even iCloud where it's like, okay, they have this email client, they can have a service,
0:27:14all your documents are here, and this is not the decision that they've made.
0:27:18And again, I don't disagree with that decision, but it meant that certain things had to apparently
0:27:22go by the wayside.
0:27:23It is sad.
0:27:26Mailbox had 15 or 20 employees, Carousel was bigger.
0:27:31got caught up in this and that's always hard to see.
0:27:36And I hope that a lot of these people are still within Dropbox or have landed on their
0:27:38feet elsewhere.
0:27:41But it's, I think kind of the bottom line here is as good as these services were, and
0:27:47I did like Carousel, I did use it, but it didn't radically change my workflow when it
0:27:52went away.
0:27:53I think Mailbox has had a bigger workflow impact than Carousel did.
0:27:58If, like I, and I said this last time,
0:28:01if this means that Dropbox can be better
0:28:03at their core business of like syncing files
0:28:07and making it easier to work with people I work with,
0:28:09then like that's, like I'm okay with that, I think.
0:28:14And that seems to be what we've been told
0:28:18is like the driving thing here,
0:28:21is that we wanna be better at these core things
0:28:23and mailbox and carousel were sort of side things
0:28:27that we're taking too much attention
0:28:28or too much money or whatever.
0:28:30I think that's interesting to think about in any business
0:28:35that if you, like this tension,
0:28:38and I feel it, even in what I do,
0:28:41I could go and do more writing,
0:28:44I could do these other things,
0:28:45but the core of what I do is relay
0:28:48and a little bit of writing.
0:28:49So I can focus on that stuff and I can get better at it
0:28:53and I can be more successful at it
0:28:55and we can grow our business.
0:28:58And you always have to weigh that against,
0:29:01well, is this a side thing that's distracting,
0:29:04or is this thing going to become a big, powerful component
0:29:08of our business and help stabilize the business
0:29:10and help diversify it?
0:29:12And there's always that tension.
0:29:13And carousel and mailbox did that
0:29:16from the product perspective.
0:29:17OK, Dropbox is now just not a really smart folder
0:29:21on my computer that syncs stuff that
0:29:23is where I deal with my photos,
0:29:25or where I deal with my email.
0:29:26And it seems that the answer for them was,
0:29:29well, those are distractions, those are side projects
0:29:32that aren't diversifying the business,
0:29:34they're not bringing in extra income,
0:29:36they're not bringing new people to our platform,
0:29:39and so they need to be cut.
0:29:40And I think any business has to make that decision of,
0:29:43is this a side project that is,
0:29:46like, it's cool and it's neat and people like it,
0:29:49versus, like, all that stuff,
0:29:51and it is making our business itself better and stronger.
0:29:56And I think Carousel and mailbox
0:29:59has fell on the wrong side of that.
0:30:00- Yeah, I mean I understand it and I appreciate it.
0:30:04But I guess the reason that mailbox and Carousel existed
0:30:10was because Dropbox had a vision
0:30:12for what their company was gonna be
0:30:14and now the vision's changed.
0:30:16The vision could change again.
0:30:17This is the problem with any big company though, right?
0:30:20Look at Google. Google do this all the time.
0:30:24- Yep.
0:30:25Yeah, I mean, and there's always that tension of like,
0:30:28all of our stuff is on these servers
0:30:30from all these companies, they could change.
0:30:33I mean, forget changing the product
0:30:34from moving the product, they could just change a policy
0:30:35you don't agree with, and then you're moving your stuff around.
0:30:38- The mailbox thing has really,
0:30:40it's really changed my view on services and how I use them,
0:30:46because mailbox going away has made a significant impact
0:30:50on the way that I work.
0:30:51So it's making me think more about the services that I use
0:30:55and what I put into them, because I end up in a scenario
0:30:58where I'm out in the weeds.
0:31:00It's basically the feeling that you went through
0:31:01of editorial for Darika.
0:31:04It's like, well, I'm so dependent on this,
0:31:07if it breaks or goes away, I'm kind of screwed,
0:31:10which is why I'm very carefully trying to pick
0:31:13what I go to next.
0:31:17Currently I'm using Outlook on iOS because it's universal.
0:31:22I've already burned Mail.app to the ground
0:31:25because I hate it so much.
0:31:28I tried using it and I had this problem
0:31:30where I would be using the swipe gestures to archive mail
0:31:35and mail would get stuck halfway through the gesture
0:31:38and would become completely unresponsive
0:31:40until I force quitted it.
0:31:42- It's fine.
0:31:43- It's like, it's all right.
0:31:44I use a third party Magic Trackpad,
0:31:46So I understand why it wouldn't work.
0:31:48Nope.
0:31:49So mail.app is gone, and I'm using airmail,
0:31:52but I don't like airmail.
0:31:53I actually don't really like any Mac mail app right now.
0:31:59But yeah, so that's kind of where I am.
0:32:01I'm using Outlook.
0:32:01I did want to mention, because a ton of people brought it up,
0:32:05SaneBox.
0:32:07That's probably the one that I've heard from the most,
0:32:10because SaneBox has a snoozing functionality,
0:32:14and obviously it sits on the server side.
0:32:16so it will work with any app.
0:32:18I haven't really looked into this yet
0:32:20because I know that SaneBox does a lot of other stuff
0:32:23that I don't know if I want,
0:32:26like where it tries to determine important email.
0:32:28- Yeah.
0:32:29- And I know it has the snoozing stuff
0:32:31and I'll check it out but I just haven't yet
0:32:32'cause right now I'm trying to just fundamentally understand
0:32:36what email looks like for me now again
0:32:38and then I might start adding some other stuff on later.
0:32:40But you know, like right now I'm trying to understand
0:32:44how I can use labels and stuff like that more effectively in folders.
0:32:47Because I need to go back to basics and understand what my email system is because
0:32:51I can't trust anybody.
0:32:52About Dropbox, and
0:32:56you mentioned Myke that, you know, the situation with Mailbox and
0:33:00it reminded you of my problem with editorial.
0:33:03I was actually thinking about
0:33:06what if, you know,
0:33:09Dropbox goes badly, you know, stops working or goes away or drops the API.
0:33:17I know they're making changes already to an API they introduced two years ago,
0:33:21and now some developers are kind of upset.
0:33:23So what if, you know, developers stop supporting Dropbox?
0:33:27And here I'm just trying to imagine the worst case scenario.
0:33:31But, you know, the apps that I use the most, they all use Dropbox syncing.
0:33:36One password, one writer, editorial, you know, all these apps with Dropbox sync, which is so...
0:33:43I mean, I wouldn't be able to live without it. I don't want to use iCloud sync, because, you know,
0:33:48I don't want to use a service that doesn't let me restore versions on an iPhone or iPad.
0:33:53Yeah, Dropbox is just flat out better for that.
0:33:55Exactly, and I don't want to use a service that doesn't let me easily share links, you know,
0:34:00all these other basic features that Dropbox nails.
0:34:03So why, I mean, if I were a developer,
0:34:07I would probably start looking into alternatives,
0:34:10such as Google Drive syncing, OneDrive syncing.
0:34:14I know they have APIs.
0:34:15They're probably not as popular right now as Dropbox is
0:34:19with the third-party developer community.
0:34:21And I don't wanna alert people for any reason,
0:34:25but I would just start considering other options
0:34:28because it's always good to have a backup plan.
0:34:30And the other part, I'm looking at paper.
0:34:34So I was trying Dropbox paper again,
0:34:37and it's really nice, all right?
0:34:39It's nice, it's polished.
0:34:42I just struggle to understand
0:34:45how it's not a fence, your Google Docs.
0:34:48And I know it does a bunch of things
0:34:49that Google Docs can't do.
0:34:51The embeds are nicer, the code highlights are nicer.
0:34:55- It does one thing that I really like.
0:34:56can integrate with your Google Calendar and when you open a new paper document it looks
0:35:02at the Google Calendar and names it by the meeting. That's awesome.
0:35:07That's nice. But it just feels to me like it's one of the... Forgive me if this is
0:35:13going to sound not nice. It sounds like one of those San Francisco Startapp-y products.
0:35:23You know what I mean? Like one of those things that you find in a circle of entrepreneurs
0:35:29in the valley.
0:35:30Why? I want to understand what it is that makes you feel that way.
0:35:34I don't know what it is, but there's something about it. Like something about the features.
0:35:39Like who… what kind of normal person wants to have syntax code highlighting in a shared
0:35:47document if you're not a web developer or a developer?
0:35:50Well, I mean, but maybe they're building it for developers, like, you know, as well as everybody else.
0:35:55So it's one of those start-upy products for developers.
0:35:58Sure is. Well, I mean, they are a startup in San Francisco, so...
0:36:01You know, I just... And I have, you know, lots of respect for Dropbox. I love Dropbox, don't get me wrong.
0:36:07It's just... It feels like one of those other attempts.
0:36:12Well, basically, I think this just goes back to what I was saying last week about the sun setting thing.
0:36:17They are a big company and I think that, I know I did, I had a different impression of
0:36:22them than what they are and I was thinking about them still as this scrappy little start
0:36:27up that they were a few years ago but they're huge now and they do these things and it just
0:36:34means that we now have to think about Dropbox the same way that we think about Google and
0:36:38Apple.
0:36:40How much do you want to give them?
0:36:42You can give them whatever you want depending on the trade-offs that you want to give but
0:36:45also need to understand that at any moment they could stop supporting the thing that
0:36:48you love because they're a company that has its own decisions that it wants to make because
0:36:53of the way the business runs not just because it makes you happy.
0:36:56Yeah.
0:36:57That's just what I've taken away from this and I'm going to continue using Dropbox for
0:37:01everything I use Dropbox for.
0:37:03Oh yeah.
0:37:04They said to me now that mailbox is coming back tomorrow I'd probably go back to it again.
0:37:08Right?
0:37:09Because you know, it's still too soon man.
0:37:12Like you bring it back and going back.
0:37:14I still need a little bit more time to understand the life away from mailbox.
0:37:18But that, you know, I don't know man, you just got to think about them differently.
0:37:23Anyway, in talking about big companies disappoint us, Google Docs, has it been updated for iOS
0:37:289?
0:37:29No.
0:37:30No.
0:37:31But they have done an update which is, you know, so every time Google has an update for
0:37:34Google Docs now, it's really frustrating because they're updating things, they're adding different
0:37:39functionality, they're fixing different bugs.
0:37:41But this time it was doubly frustrating because they've added something which is really annoying.
0:37:46So now onto Google Docs for iOS. What used to happen is you'd open your document, you'd
0:37:52tap where you wanted to type, it would put the insertion point and you'd start typing.
0:37:57But now that doesn't work anymore. It opens it in a preview mode always and you have to
0:38:03tap this button on the bottom right corner to open it into editing mode to start editing.
0:38:08So every single time I'm opening it, I'm typing the document and nothing happens.
0:38:13And it's driving me mad.
0:38:15I don't know why I've done this.
0:38:17Yeah well, every week we keep on checking on Google's progress, if we want to call that,
0:38:26on iOS 9 support.
0:38:28And so, you know, we are as sad as any previous week.
0:38:34Still no multitasking for...
0:38:37keep on being said. It's like they don't even understand how happy they would make me.
0:38:43My understanding is they have such a massive code base that they need to update everything
0:38:51to take advantage of iOS 9. And you know, Code Legacy support for old workarounds that
0:39:00they did in their code to work on multiple platforms. And now they've got to switch to
0:39:04to a new OS and it's taking them so long, probably because they're so behind, and I
0:39:10just don't understand, Myke.
0:39:15Probably because I don't work on one of these.
0:39:17I'm not imbued in this San Francisco culture.
0:39:21I don't understand how developers there prioritize projects like this.
0:39:27Eventually, we will probably get iS9 support.
0:39:30I would say at this point, you know, with the iTunes Connect shutdown, maybe next year
0:39:35at this point, so let's hope that, you know, 2016 brings us multitasking for Google Docs.
0:39:41Yep.
0:39:42That's my only wish.
0:39:43Well, actually not the only wish, but one of the first wishes.
0:39:47We'll see.
0:39:50Please Google.
0:39:53Apple had an executive shakeup yesterday.
0:39:55Stephen, do you want to talk us through some of the changes?
0:39:58Yeah, so the changes sort of break down into two tiers.
0:40:03Sort of at the higher end, Jeff Williams has been named Chief Operating Officer.
0:40:09Williams was more or less Cook's kind of right-hand man when Cook held the title, and my understanding
0:40:15is Jeff Williams has basically been COO for a while now.
0:40:18Yeah, they've operated without a COO since Cook took over, right?
0:40:23Right.
0:40:24It's been a vacant position.
0:40:26Yeah, but Williams has kind of been filling those shoes.
0:40:28Williams also overseeing the Apple Watch project and he's now COO, which I think
0:40:34is well-earned. I like that guy. I like Jeff Williams too. I think he's done a good
0:40:39job. He did a lot of press stuff with the watch and of course did some of the
0:40:42keynotes. He's a good presence on stage and a good face for Apple.
0:40:47Phil Schiller, who is remaining vice-NCP of worldwide marketing, is now
0:40:55in charge of the App Store across all platforms. So iOS, OS X, TV OS.
0:41:03Previously those were like sort of under Q underneath the iTunes store but also
0:41:10sort of under Schiller. They're all under Schiller now completely which I think is good.
0:41:13I think that's the most important move here. I think that's what we're going to talk about.
0:41:18about but a couple others there's a new vice president of marketing
0:41:26communications Tor Myron who is from the outside but joining Apple and then
0:41:36there's also a new vice president of hardware technology Johnny Serahi
0:41:42and so yeah, moves all over the place.
0:41:46Yeah, I'm just gonna blast right through those names.
0:41:50- Good work.
0:41:51- I would say, before we get into the Schiller stuff,
0:41:56we're talking about this sort of privately last night,
0:41:58there's still a big diversity problem
0:42:01if you go to Apple's leadership page.
0:42:03- Yeah, it's bad.
0:42:04- They need, like they just, they have to address this.
0:42:07You know, for a long time it was just like white dudes,
0:42:12as far as you can see, and there are a few changes there.
0:42:17- There's two ladies.
0:42:18Three, sorry, there's three ladies.
0:42:22And there's maybe, I think there's like two people of color.
0:42:28- Yep, that's it.
0:42:29And that's something that Tim Cook talks about.
0:42:35He talks about diversity a lot, which I'm glad for,
0:42:38and I would like to see them do more in that regard.
0:42:41right now that PR bios page is pretty similar all the way down. But anyways, so there's
0:42:52that and that's something that I want us to keep an eye on in 2016. But I think for today
0:42:57what we want to talk about is Phil Schiller. And Gruber had this really interesting little
0:43:04tidbit about Schiller and basically
0:43:09Gruber says that it was Schiller's idea.
0:43:12He like personally advocated for the
0:43:14creation of the Mac App Store and that
0:43:16Steve Jobs had to be kind of talked into
0:43:18it. Jobs apparently thought that the
0:43:20system beforehand, which is like go out
0:43:22on the internet or go buy a CD and go
0:43:24install stuff, was fine. And so Gruber,
0:43:28and I agree that Schiller has a personal
0:43:30interest in seeing the Mac App Store
0:43:31or succeed.
0:43:32And if you look at Apple executives and what they talk about, Schiller very often is painted
0:43:38as like the guy who is sort of the spokesperson for the Mac.
0:43:44Like that's what he did.
0:43:45You know, he did that big interview with Mashable a while back about the MacBook and if they're
0:43:50ever announcing a new Mac hardware, he's the one to do it.
0:43:53And he seems like that's sort of his project that he likes to talk about.
0:44:02And I think that's true.
0:44:04I don't think that's just something they do on stage.
0:44:07And I think, you know, I think Schiller's done a good job for the most part across the
0:44:11various parts of the company that he's responsible for.
0:44:14And so if him being in charge of the App Store, I think is a good thing.
0:44:19I think maybe it's just no matter who it is, I guess it's good that they're bringing it
0:44:24under one person.
0:44:25I mean, because the App Store seemed to have gone against a lot of what Apple did a couple
0:44:30of years ago about the consolidation of teams.
0:44:32It was still a division that was split across two different leads.
0:44:36So you had the editorial and then the technical part of it.
0:44:40And it seemed like that was kind of broken up in a way that hasn't helped them.
0:44:44Because we've seen so many things in the past of like technical teams and like love apps
0:44:50and editorial teams get them rejected or vice versa.
0:44:54And I guess it's good to see that no matter what it was, even if those teams were working
0:44:59together, if you have a leadership decision that needs to be made, ending up having to
0:45:03decide who of the two leaders is going to make that decision will add time and friction
0:45:09to something like that.
0:45:10So having one person who makes all the decisions now will either... what it will do is solidify
0:45:17it. Whether it will help or hinder whatever we want is a completely different story. But
0:45:22what I do expect is a clearer vision for the way that all of the app stores will work together,
0:45:28but that doesn't necessarily mean that we're going to get trials, right? It doesn't mean
0:45:32that. It doesn't mean we're going to get what we want specifically or what developers want
0:45:36or anybody wants, but what I would expect to see is a more consistent approach across
0:45:41all the app stores.
0:45:42I agree, and I think too, before we move on from your point, I think there probably have
0:45:48been things like who makes a decision, but when you're divided, things just fall through
0:45:52the cracks. And like you have to think, I mean it's hard not to think that this is a
0:45:56response to the recent stuff with the Mac App Store and...
0:46:01I don't know, I feel like these decisions weren't made like two weeks ago.
0:46:06I mean, I don't think they were made two weeks ago,
0:46:08but I think that maybe this,
0:46:11I think maybe this would not have been announced
0:46:15publicly otherwise.
0:46:16Why throw this into a press release
0:46:18about a new hire and two promotions?
0:46:21It seems like the oddball out in the announcement,
0:46:25and I think they're making it public
0:46:27because people like Schiller
0:46:28and there's some frustration in the community about it.
0:46:31But either way, I mean,
0:46:34Either way, I think it's a good choice.
0:46:37And I agree with you, this is not a,
0:46:42we're not gonna come back after the break
0:46:45and everything be better, but I think that Schiller
0:46:49is more in tune with what developers and customers want
0:46:53than somebody like EdiQ.
0:46:54And that's not a knock against EdiQ, this is not his thing.
0:46:57And so if anyone, if there's any chance of Apple hearing
0:47:02what developers and consumers want,
0:47:05it's through Schiller's organization.
0:47:07And that may be enough to get the ball rolling.
0:47:10- Do you have any thoughts on this, Federico?
0:47:14- I just, I feel like it's a smart move
0:47:19to have Schiller as the public face of the app stores.
0:47:22Because it's the kind of figure
0:47:27that a lot of people can relate to.
0:47:29- I think he has a lot of love in the development community.
0:47:31He has a lot of love, but I've seen people say that in many ways Schiller also represents the old Apple
0:47:39in the sense of App Store review, rejections, those kinds of stories.
0:47:43Like he was part of, you know, he was already in charge of the developer relationships.
0:47:48Many of the decisions to exclude some types of apps in the past were done under Schiller's guidance.
0:47:57So, he's loved by the community, but he's also already been responsible for some arguable decisions with the app review of the App Store.
0:48:08So, in a way, this is nice, because he's a public face of Apple, he's loved by Apple fans, because he goes on to John Gruber, for example, he's been very active on Twitter.
0:48:23It's the kind of figure that you want, you know, you feel a connection as a developer.
0:48:29But also, you know, as the developer guy already at the company, he has made, or his team has made decisions that a lot of developers didn't like.
0:48:42So maybe it is time for a change, or maybe things will stay the same, but you know, it'll just be a public phase so now people can have someone to blame officially.
0:48:52I don't know. I guess time will tell. By next WWDC, I think if we don't see any major change for the Mac App Store, absolutely, and for the iOS App Store in terms of what developers can do to better monetize their apps and the iPad platform especially, I think we'll have to be concerned if we don't get any major change by next June.
0:49:16June. If we do get changes, then we'll know why this promotion was announced. To get
0:49:22ball rolling, to get Schiller, who's the developer guy, to apply all the changes and
0:49:27to kind of change the culture inside Apple. If we don't see any changes, then it's
0:49:31just marketing, basically.
0:49:35I am personally expecting a lot of developer changes in 10.
0:49:37Me too.
0:49:38Like there were in 8. I think we're going to have a similar kind of WWDC. That's what
0:49:42I'm leaning on right now. To me it just feels like that they held some features
0:49:46off because the next one is 10 and for 10 it feels like you have to have some
0:49:52big stuff. And 9 didn't have an awful lot in it, looking back really.
0:49:58So I'm excited to see WWDC and I'm looking forward to maybe in about two or
0:50:06three months when we start really talking about it seriously. Let's take a
0:50:11break and then we have probably the best app release this year.
0:50:17This episode is brought to you by Squarespace. You can start building your own website today
0:50:21at squarespace.com and use the offer code "world" at checkout. You'll get 10% off
0:50:25if you do. Squarespace, where you can build it beautiful. With Squarespace, you're able
0:50:30to put together a website that looks fantastic with all their professional, beautiful designs,
0:50:35their fantastic templates, all of their great functionality, regardless of how much you
0:50:40you know about how to code a website. It doesn't matter what your skill level is, with Squarespace
0:50:46you'll be able to put something fantastic together because all of their tools are super
0:50:49easy to use, they're really intuitive, you get full control on making a site look the
0:50:54way you imagine it in your brain. Squarespace has total incredible stuff, it's all state
0:50:59of the art technology and they use all of this to power your site and ensure security
0:51:04and stability at all times which is why they are trusted by millions of people around the
0:51:08the world. Squarespace back all of this up with 24/7 support with live chat and email.
0:51:14They are there, they are on hand to help you with whatever you need, whenever you need
0:51:18it. They also have their commerce platform. This is something that we use at Relay FM
0:51:23to sell stuff at our store. It's something that when we talk about our membership and
0:51:27say that people get a discount on Relay FM merchandise, that store is powered by Squarespace.
0:51:32They have things like discount codes and offer codes that we can give to people, right? So
0:51:35we can do all of that stuff, it is a very full featured robust commerce platform that
0:51:40allows anybody to add a store to their site. They have rock solid fast hosting, they have
0:51:45their dev platform so if you do know how to do all this web stuff you can go in there
0:51:50and tinker around and know that that's something that many of our friends have used at You
0:51:53Squarespace they can go in and just add some little things, just tweak some stuff but they
0:51:57don't have to worry about all of the other things that go into managing and maintaining
0:52:02a site and everything that goes on underneath it.
0:52:05If you sign up for a year you'll get yourself a free domain name so you can give your new
0:52:08Squarespace site whatever you want it to be called.
0:52:12Squarespace plans start at just $8 a month and you can sign up for a free trial today
0:52:15with no credit card required.
0:52:17Start building your website straight away by going to squarespace.com then when you
0:52:21fall in love with it and decide to sign up for Squarespace make sure that you use the
0:52:25offer code world at checkout.
0:52:27You'll get 10% off your first purchase if you do and also show your support for this
0:52:31Thank you so much to Squarespace for sponsoring this week's episode of Connected, helping
0:52:35out at Relay FM and helping us build it beautiful with Squarespace.
0:52:39Thank you so much.
0:52:40All right, so a couple of days ago, Federico sends me a message on Slack and he's like,
0:52:48somebody's made a coloring app.
0:52:51And he's like, and I have a code for you.
0:52:54And I spent about three hours that day using a new app called Pigment.
0:53:01Pigment is made by what's the developers name?
0:53:04- Picsite.
0:53:05- Picsite, yeah they make a bunch of apps.
0:53:07Like I'm familiar with them,
0:53:08but it's not stuff that I've used personally.
0:53:11It tends to be like artisty and designy
0:53:13and that kind of stuff, right?
0:53:15That's the kind of world that they fit into.
0:53:17- And speaking of Dropbox and Carousel,
0:53:19they also make an app called Unbound
0:53:21to manage photos from your Dropbox.
0:53:23- We spoke about that a bunch of times.
0:53:25- Yeah.
0:53:26- It's a nice app.
0:53:27- Yeah, so they're a great little development house
0:53:29and they have created the app that was needed on the iPad Pro which is a truly good colouring
0:53:37app.
0:53:38So Federico wrote a great review which I did a lot of fact checking for him just to make
0:53:45sure that we got everything right about what I call grown up colouring because I don't
0:53:49like the connotations of adult colouring and I'm not kidding I think I've probably spent
0:53:57about 10 hours in this app over the last 3 or 4 days.
0:54:02I am in love with it.
0:54:05It has some improvements that are needed, but it is everything that I wanted from a
0:54:12colouring app on the iPad.
0:54:15It's as good as an experience as you would want.
0:54:17So a quick rundown of what the app has.
0:54:20It's a subscription model, which I really like.
0:54:22You pay monthly or yearly.
0:54:23I paid like £18 for the year and you get access to a ton of books and inside, so they're
0:54:29like themes and inside there is an amount of pages that you can color in.
0:54:34And you can color them multiple times, right?
0:54:36So you can just keep starting them fresh over and over again if you like.
0:54:40But the subscription model kind of says that you're going to get new books and new artwork
0:54:45to color in over the time.
0:54:47And I think that's kind of cool.
0:54:48I like that as a subscription model.
0:54:50Like £18 is not a lot of money.
0:54:53especially when you look at what these coloring books actually cost, the physical ones. I
0:54:57think it's great and what you can't do with the coloring books that you buy is do the
0:55:02colors again, right? Because you colored them in and they're done. But with this you can
0:55:06do the same patterns over and over again. There's a ton of color choices, there are
0:55:13a ton of tool choices, there's different types of tools and the way that they are produced.
0:55:17You can have pencil looking, you can have pen looking, you can create gradients and
0:55:21and stuff like that, which is really cool.
0:55:23The one issue that I have with this app
0:55:26is say you've chosen a color,
0:55:30you have like a shade slider
0:55:34so you can make it darker or lighter.
0:55:36So I did this, I had a blue,
0:55:37I wanted to make the blue lighter and I dragged it on.
0:55:39And then I left the app to do something,
0:55:42came back and that color choice was not saved.
0:55:45So I couldn't recreate that color again
0:55:48and I wasn't finished.
0:55:50and that is a big thing that I don't like about this application.
0:55:54There are a couple of ways you could fix it.
0:55:56For example, they could have a color picker,
0:55:58so you could very easily just say, "I want that color again."
0:56:00But the main one, the easiest way is
0:56:02when I leave the app, don't reset the color.
0:56:06You just need to save it, just save the color.
0:56:09Because most likely, the way that I color anyway,
0:56:12and I assume a lot of people will like this,
0:56:14is I color each element in a specific color
0:56:16that I want to color at that time.
0:56:18I've chosen a blue and then changed the blue and I want to color in these four
0:56:22different things. I don't color in one then change my color do something else
0:56:25and go back to it but some people do so I think that to really round this off
0:56:30they need to one observe my color choice if I leave the app and come back and to
0:56:34add a color picker because when you're coloring with pens you have all of the
0:56:39you have all of the colors they are physically there so you won't you know
0:56:43you can just say this is the color and I'll just put it to the side and I'll
0:56:46pick it up again in a minute when I need it. But if you can change the colours, which you
0:56:50can, then you need to have the ability for people to easily recall. Another thing they
0:56:56could do is have a way to save those tones to a personal palette of colours, but they
0:57:03need to think about that because that is a disruptive thing that I didn't like about
0:57:09the application. So what it did was it stopped me from changing the colours very often. I
0:57:13now just they have lots and lots of colors and shades but now I just stick
0:57:17to the ones that are there I don't change them but then sometimes still
0:57:21like I use a brown and I have to like try four different ones to find the
0:57:25exact shade to bring it back again so they have some some work they can do
0:57:29there to kind of tighten that up I also found like palm rejection isn't 100%
0:57:35accurate all of the time and they don't have an eraser so if you accidentally
0:57:40the app
0:57:47over it. They have an undo which is really good, I love that there's an undo there, but
0:57:52sometimes I've made a mark on a page somewhere and don't realise it until later on so then
0:57:56I have to go back and get rid of it. Just having an eraser tool right in the top toolbar
0:58:01would be really good for that so I could just get rid of those parts. There's a few things
0:58:06that the app does which is really interesting. You can tap inside of a white area and it
0:58:12puts a dotted line around the area so you can colour freely and it doesn't go over the
0:58:16the black lines. I don't work like that, right?
0:58:19I'm a realist. Uh, I color and just do it the way
0:58:23that I want to do it and just go up to the lines
0:58:25and treat it like it's a book. Um, I mean, the
0:58:28good thing though, is if I do go over the lines,
0:58:29I can easily undo, I'll get rid of it, which
0:58:31actually can't be the book, but it is good that
0:58:33you can do that. So it's good for kids, I guess.
0:58:36So you can say, just tap that and then just go
0:58:38crazy and it won't go over the lines. Um, I just,
0:58:43you know, I love this app. I love that I can sit with my iPad, I can have Twitter in split
0:58:50view or slack and I can sit and color. I've been using it when I've been editing. I was
0:58:56just chilling out yesterday evening, I was watching like some TV and I was coloring at
0:59:01the same time like it was just on in the background. This app is fantastic. Being able to like
0:59:05freely pan and zoom around and rotate the images is excellent. This is to say it's not
0:59:12perfect but I didn't expect anybody would be able to make a perfect app like this and
0:59:17it doesn't because there's always little things that you're gonna have to think about that
0:59:20unless you're like really deep in this you maybe wouldn't notice and you know it doesn't
0:59:25recreate the feeling of pens on paper like nothing ever will like we went over this when
0:59:30the pencil came out originally but what whilst it doesn't give you the exact feeling you
0:59:37get things with this that you can't get with paper and pen.
0:59:41The ability to zoom, the ability to undo, the ability to have infinite colour choices
0:59:48and infinite amounts of drawings to colour all in this one device.
0:59:55I absolutely love this app and I'm going to put in the show notes, I tweeted a few different
1:00:00things that I coloured with it and I'll put those in the show notes so people can get
1:00:05an example of what they look like. You can get really creative with it, you can do blending
1:00:10and shading and you can change the opacity of stuff. I'm so happy that this app exists,
1:00:18I'm so happy that it's as quick. I was thinking this was going to take ages before somebody
1:00:23came out with something really good for this. For me, this is the perfect example of an
1:00:30app that only really works on the iPad Pro with the pencil.
1:00:35You could use this on other apps, but this is on other devices and you could use your
1:00:38finger and stuff like that, especially with the tapping in an area and then you could
1:00:42use your finger to color, but it's just not going to be as good an experience.
1:00:45This is a true iPad Pro application.
1:00:49Yeah, I think it…
1:00:52I was joking about having a "grown-up coloring" app for the iPad Pro a few weeks ago and now
1:01:00now that it's available, it just totally makes sense.
1:01:04But this is the thing, you were joking about it, but me and you, I was talking seriously
1:01:09to you about it at the same time.
1:01:10No, no, I was half joking about it. I think it makes total sense. And since you, as I
1:01:18wrote in the article, you got me interested in this colouring book trend. And I got a
1:01:25few people on Twitter saying "well it's been around forever, you know, I used to
1:01:31color 20 years ago" I guess what's happening here is...
1:01:36Saying that you used to do coloring in when you're a kid is not an argument.
1:01:41No, no, no, I got people saying I've had adult coloring books for like a decade.
1:01:46They have existed for a very long time but it is a trend right now.
1:01:49Exactly, exactly.
1:01:50If you go into any bookstore, I did it in the UK and in the US now, they have these massive stands of coloring books.
1:01:57I have a Star Wars coloring book that I picked up in New York.
1:02:01Of course you do. Of course you do.
1:02:03I think it's really clever of these guys to do a subscription, to give you access to new books.
1:02:09And I feel like we're gonna see a lot of these apps in the near future.
1:02:16So this is the first one, and by doing a subscription, you ensure that people start paying you and
1:02:22they stick with your app, which is a clever strategy, I would say.
1:02:27I'm very pleased that you're happy, Myke, and I think you've done a really good critique
1:02:32of what's missing and what needs to be improved.
1:02:35Every now and then, there is an app that comes along that is tailor-made for one of the three
1:02:38of us, and this one is my one.
1:02:42You should be an app reviewer more often, Myke.
1:02:45There's very rarely things that push my buttons like this though.
1:02:51Do you have another secret wish for an app next year?
1:02:54Which is not mailbox, Myke?
1:02:57I'm gonna have to think on that.
1:02:58What's the app of your dreams, Michael?
1:03:02Let me get back to you on that one.
1:03:04I don't know what it is.
1:03:05No, do you know what it is?
1:03:07Logic. Really good logic.
1:03:10I know that there are apps that exist, but I want logic.
1:03:13Because that's the one that I want.
1:03:14the one that I want. You want logic on the Apple Pro. That is my next dream app. That
1:03:20makes sense. Maybe not immediately, but I would be more inclined to trust that it would
1:03:24be able to do what I wanted it to do. Because I know it and it hopefully would be made by
1:03:29the same people that make the app that I use every single day. So that's what I would really
1:03:34like to see. Alright, makes sense, yeah. So the last thing that I wanted to talk about
1:03:40today was Slack. So they had an event a couple of days ago where they announced that they
1:03:48are creating like an app store for their integrations and they're partnering with some venture capital
1:03:54firms to create an $80 million fund to invest in companies that want to create new Slack
1:04:02integrations. Reminded me very much of the iFund. Do you remember the iFund?
1:04:05Oh yeah. I do remember the iFund. Yeah.
1:04:09So this was a…
1:04:10It's a long time ago.
1:04:11Who was it that was part of that?
1:04:15Some game company.
1:04:16No, no, no.
1:04:17Like the company that actually put the money together.
1:04:21It was, I'm looking it up right now.
1:04:22Oh yeah, it was Kleiner Perkins.
1:04:24Kleiner Perkins created a fund of $100 million which was then increased later on.
1:04:30It's $200 million now.
1:04:33And Gmoco was part of the iFund.
1:04:34That's what I remember.
1:04:35Yeah, that's a good call.
1:04:36They were the biggest.
1:04:37the portfolio companies of the iFund are Path, Shopkick, N.G. Moko, Booyah and Criticism.
1:04:44So all top drawer applications there that came through as part of the iFund.
1:04:50Wow, look at Michael, all sarcastic and stuff. Do you use any apps created by these companies?
1:04:56No. Oh, don't you use Booyah? What is Booyah? Or Path? I have no idea. Let's look it up.
1:05:03Booyah was a social web and mobile entertainment company.
1:05:11They created Mytown, IAP, probably a similar thing.
1:05:21Is mobile application performance management.
1:05:24What does it even mean?
1:05:25Oh, it performs your management of mobile.
1:05:30application performance management APM solution.
1:05:34Perfect. That's what I was looking for.
1:05:35What's an APM?
1:05:37Well, yeah, it's an advanced performance metric.
1:05:39Don't you want to advance your performance, Myke?
1:05:43Always, every single day.
1:05:45So Slack has created their own one of these.
1:05:48And basically what they're looking to do now is to encourage more
1:05:52and more companies to plug into Slack, which is very smart.
1:05:58I was reading a thing on The Verge about this and it's something that I didn't know that the majority of slack
1:06:03Integrations that exist or have existed were written by the slack team
1:06:08Not by the company really yeah, because they knew how important it would be and they were just creating the applications
1:06:14So they were creating the integrations that they wanted
1:06:17When they were using slack, so they were like this would be really good if this worked like Twitter or Dropbox
1:06:22So they built them themselves, but now they're trying to encourage companies and web services to create
1:06:27their own integrations so that they can, I don't know, like so that they can
1:06:34further the platform, they can increase the platform, they can strengthen it, they
1:06:38can basically continue to make it a place where all of your information
1:06:42flows into. So this was interesting to me because I saw a tweet from you Federico
1:06:48a couple of days ago where you said that you now have the max stories tips inbox
1:06:52which I assume is like, you know, what people send you stuff to, goes
1:06:56directly into Slack and that you're trying to move more and more stuff into it. So what
1:07:01does that look like for you right now?
1:07:03It's basically, I wanted a way to have, so we have a few channels in Slack where we just
1:07:11keep notifications and like external feeds. So we have a channel where we aggregate news
1:07:18like Techmeme, highlights from RSS, so anyone can go in there and see what's going on at
1:07:25a glance, you know, because we're already spending a lot of time in Slack. It makes
1:07:30sense to have a few dedicated areas where people can go and check out other things.
1:07:34And I thought it'd be nice instead of having to manually redirect every single email that
1:07:40I get to just set up a rule to fit everything into Slack so anyone can go in there. It's
1:07:49It's like a shared inbox/stream, but with the benefits of Slack, so notifications, people
1:07:57can comment on emails, and because we pay for Slack, we have the native email forwarding
1:08:03system.
1:08:04So we get nice previews for messages, we can click on them, and it shows you an HTML preview
1:08:11of the messages if you look on the web.
1:08:15can comment on individual messages, so you can use Zach Search, you can mention other
1:08:21people, so it's really trying to replace email for us. And of course I still do use email
1:08:28a lot, you know, people get in touch with me personally, ClubMEX service members get
1:08:32in touch with me personally for, you know, club related issues. But we're using Slack
1:08:41the time and I would say increasingly more because of these integrations.
1:08:46So to give you an example, I have switched, or at least I'm trying to use, this new system
1:08:54to put together all the individual sections that make up our MaxAures Weekly newsletter.
1:09:00And the service is called Airtable, and it's like a modern take on the spreadsheet and
1:09:07database combined.
1:09:10And so I've set up this base, it's called, and me and Graham, we collaborate on these
1:09:17different records.
1:09:19So there's a record for MacStory's favorite, there's another for interesting links, and
1:09:23another one for the home screen.
1:09:25And every time I comment on a record, which is the one that says "Is the issue finalized?
1:09:32Are you done?" and I say "Yeah, I'm done" and it sends a notification to the Slack channel
1:09:37so Graham knows that it's all done and he can start working on the MailChimp campaign.
1:09:44Did you say MailChimp?
1:09:47Yes, MailChimp. So it's all these integrations that I have. I'm using Slackbot every once in a while
1:09:55to just like pin some items or a link because I don't know where else to put it.
1:10:01It's really more than a chat room for us. I mean, it's a glorified chat room with lots of integrations.
1:10:11And I think the key aspect is, because of these integrations, we can move away from the old model of every one of us as its own silo of information,
1:10:26whether it's email or a database.
1:10:28Instead, it's all collaborative, and it's all in the cloud,
1:10:31and it's all based on notifications and alerts.
1:10:34And it's all coming together in a chat stream, you know,
1:10:39with a model that we're used to, but we see more.
1:10:43So it's not just that we're chatting together,
1:10:46but we also see this information from files,
1:10:50from Twitter, from RSS, but it looks like a chat room.
1:10:54- So it's a hub. - It's a hub with a chronological sense of the traditional chat rooms, if it makes sense.
1:11:04And it's working out pretty well so far for us. And it's still... this is the problem.
1:11:10It's still changing a lot. So Slack is still a young product.
1:11:14And they're still changing quite a few things, and every week there's a new feature.
1:11:18So it can be a little overwhelming if you don't follow Slack updates.
1:11:23Just last night, for example, they launched the "Do Not Disturb" mode, which is pretty awesome, and it's the kind of feature that you don't get with email.
1:11:30You can only set your device to "Do Not Disturb", not your email client.
1:11:35So it's like I would say, if I were an investor, it's one of the companies I would put money in, personally.
1:11:43Yeah, I would put all of my money in Slack right now.
1:11:47right now?
1:11:48I think they're doing a lot of clever things.
1:11:51And the new app directory, there's a lot of crazy things.
1:11:54I'm trying this birdly office management app, which is basically a bot that you...
1:12:01For all the offices you have to manage.
1:12:03No, no, I got one office.
1:12:05The category is office management.
1:12:08But it's basically this bot that you have a direct message with on Slack.
1:12:13You take a picture of a receipt or a PDF and you send it to the bot, it's called the Bill
1:12:21bot.
1:12:22So you send the picture to Bill and Bill does OCR for you and it turns the photo or the
1:12:28PDF into a spreadsheet in Google Sheets, which is crazy.
1:12:34I almost didn't believe it.
1:12:35I don't know if there's any human involved.
1:12:38I think there must be some human port involved, like Facebook DM messenger, it's a hybrid
1:12:44of AI and humans.
1:12:47But anyway, I sent a couple of receipts to Bill on Slack, and I do have a spreadsheet
1:12:52already filled out with all my, you know, the title of the expense, and it even did
1:12:59conversion from USD to Euros.
1:13:02So this is just an example of these crazy integrations.
1:13:07Already we have made a custom bot, just for me.
1:13:12It's called TitchiDoo.
1:13:13So basically what TitchiDoo does is, Ale, which is our web developer, he set up a system that
1:13:25I can, whenever I say "teachydoo" in Slack, it sends the text of the message. So if I
1:13:33say "teachydoo call Myke", it sends an email message with the subject "call Myke" to my
1:13:41todo inbox, therefore the title "teachydoo". It sends an email message to my todo email
1:13:47inbox, you know, the one configured with it. So a few seconds later I have a task in my
1:13:53to-do inbox called...
1:13:56No, no, no, no. There is no world in which I want people adding things to my to-do list.
1:14:03Like I just...
1:14:04Hold on, it makes sense. If everyone is on the same page, don't think about the relay
1:14:11is like 50 people. So we're 7 people here and they're all extremely religious and disciplined
1:14:19about sending me things.
1:14:22There is just a thing that, look, I know I could set it up, right, that it would be only
1:14:26just when people ask me to do things, which they would ask me to do and I would add it
1:14:30myself, there is just a thing in my brain where I am horrified at the thought of things
1:14:35going into OmniFocus that I haven't put there. There's just something about that to me where
1:14:40it's like I can't I can't deal with that.
1:14:42Buy Steven presents.
1:14:44What's worse, the idea of people sending you stuff to do or forgetting to do the stuff that people ask you to do?
1:14:52And for me, because I'm the type of person...
1:14:55Oh look, don't get me wrong buddy, like I understand it, like it is very clever for that reason, right?
1:15:01You're never gonna forget something. But I can't just imagine that happening to me.
1:15:06I forget a lot of things, and this is just another example of using Slack.
1:15:12I'm talking to someone and I realize, "Yeah, I gotta do this." I can just append "teachydoo" to my message and it gets saved.
1:15:20And plus, I love the way that it's called, "teachydoo." It looks fun when you type it.
1:15:26So yeah, we're using Slack a lot. I'm really a fan of Slack. And I feel safe to say I'm considering the idea of Clapmak story Slack.
1:15:40You know, I've been reading on this open Slack communities, where there's like a thousand people, two thousand people signed up.
1:15:49And I'm considering the idea. And initially I thought that was crazy, but last week I was reading this article by Rens, you know, the blog Rens and Repots.
1:16:06And he was talking about using Slack as a community with a lot of users and like hundreds
1:16:14of channels.
1:16:16And I think that's what I want to do, but we'll see.
1:16:20I'm a big fan of Slack.
1:16:21Again, if I were a VC, I would put all my money in this.
1:16:25Well, probably not all my money, but good money in Slack.
1:16:31I think what's so powerful about it, and there is all the stuff you're talking about where
1:16:36can automate things and have things going in and out to all these various
1:16:40services and that's really powerful but I got I know for for me basically
1:16:45working remotely with a bunch of other people it's like it it has replaced
1:16:49email in a way that I did not anticipate and especially if you pay for psych and
1:16:54you get the history and the search like we do for relay you you have all that
1:16:58stuff you know that it's safe and sound in there and so for me email has become
1:17:02a tool for external work and not really internal work. I only email Myke if
1:17:09it's something like I really want to make sure that he sees or it's you know
1:17:13time zone differences and I'm already in my inbox I'm going to send him something
1:17:16but for the most part like our business takes place within the tool and utility
1:17:23of Slack and as that becomes more and more true for more companies they're
1:17:27going to continue to be successful. I mean I think there's the argument that
1:17:30that their pay tier is too expensive,
1:17:32that it's sort of a really big jump from free to the pay tier
1:17:36and I'd like to see them maybe figure that out.
1:17:38But even that said, their growth has just been unbelievable.
1:17:43I think this new fund, this new push for integration
1:17:46is only going to continue to let them just take off.
1:17:50I think you said, Stephen, did you say this a couple of years ago?
1:17:56It's like they're becoming so important now.
1:17:58I'm now scared of what they might do.
1:18:00- I mean, it goes back to the conversation we had earlier.
1:18:04Yeah, I don't want them to blow it.
1:18:05And I don't think they will.
1:18:07I think so far, if anything, they have a tendency
1:18:12to push things out and it's sort of hard to keep up.
1:18:15But I think that other than that,
1:18:19I think they have a proven track record so far, so.
1:18:25We'll see.
1:18:28We love you Slack.
1:18:29- Yeah, we do.
1:18:30- If you wanna find our show notes
1:18:32for this week's episode, head on over
1:18:34to relay.fm/connected/70.
1:18:37You've got all our lovely show notes there,
1:18:39some contact information if you wanna become
1:18:41a Relay FM member and support this show.
1:18:42There's also some buttons on the page there
1:18:44where you can click that.
1:18:45Thank you so much to everybody that has done that
1:18:48over the last couple of weeks.
1:18:49We really, really appreciate it.
1:18:50If you wanna find all of us online,
1:18:52you can go to maxstories.net to find Federico's work.
1:18:55you can go to 512pixels.net to find Stevens and we are all on Twitter. Steven is @ismh
1:19:01on Twitter, Federico is @vitiici, V I T I C C I and I am @imike, I M Y K E. We all hope
1:19:09that you have a lovely Christmas if that's what you celebrate or a lovely holiday season
1:19:13if you celebrate something else because I'm not sure about the dates of when things are
1:19:18because I am a terrible human being. But I would like to wish you all a very happy holidays
1:19:23no matter what it is that you celebrate, even if it's just you celebrate that we don't have
1:19:27an episode next week. Until then, thank you so much for listening. Say goodbye everybody.
1:19:34Arrivederci and buon effeste. Oh you fancy. Adios. Do you have the... and it's Feliz Navidad.
1:19:42Feliz Navidad! But Navidad is Christmas. Ah it's only one of them. Feliz... Feliz...
1:19:48Don't make this more complicated than it already has to be. Sorry.