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Connected

67: Being in Charge of a Space Rocket

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0:00:00[Music]

0:00:06From Reave AFM, this is Connected, episode number 67.

0:00:10Today's show is brought to you by Braintree, Fracture and Squarespace.

0:00:14My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined by Federico Vittucci. Hi Federico.

0:00:18Hello Myke.

0:00:19How are you sir?

0:00:20I'm doing great Myke, how are you?

0:00:22Yeah I'm very well, Stephen Hackett is out on assignment this week.

0:00:24So it's just me and you.

0:00:26He's reporting on the field for car sharing services.

0:00:29Yes, he is actually.

0:00:31So this starts one of those horrific things where now me and you have to do the follow-up, which is, it just never goes well.

0:00:38I will hold your hand, Myke. We're in this together. We can do this.

0:00:43It's all I ever want, really. As long as we're in this stuff together, I'm happy.

0:00:47So, let me start, Myke.

0:00:49So last week we were talking about the pro apps on the App Store and developers building

0:00:56apps for professionals and selling them, you know, not at $2 but maybe at a higher price

0:01:02and trying to make a pro business on the iOS App Store. Well, I got an interesting email

0:01:07from Tim Shaton. He works for GTI Predictive and this company, this is quite difficult

0:01:15for me to explain because they do crazy stuff. But basically what they do is they created

0:01:20an entire division of their company to replace industrial instruments and other tools with

0:01:27iPad software. So they make apps like a vibration analysis app called Vypro or a machine shop

0:01:37balancer or a thermal imaging app. They make thermal growth adjustment for shaft alignment.

0:01:45I don't even know what it means, but it sounds awesome. I mean, science, right? And these apps

0:01:51are not sold at your typical app store price. For example, Phase Pro, which is a phase analysis app,

0:01:58it's $200 on the app store. I just wanted to just point out it's phase, right? Because it

0:02:03It sounded like you said face, which is kind of funny.

0:02:06Like it just analyzes faces and gives you a rating out of 10.

0:02:08It's a phase.

0:02:10I don't know what a phase in an industrial whatever is, but still,

0:02:15Vibe RMS machine certification, $200.

0:02:21And they have built a very profitable business with these kind of very specific,

0:02:28very niche, but, you know, advanced iPad software.

0:02:32And it was very kind to send us an email with all the links and the details of these apps.

0:02:37This is one of the many examples that I had in mind. A company trying to find a market segment,

0:02:45a very specific one. And once you find your audience, once you find your market,

0:02:51and you make a software that becomes irreplaceable for people or for other companies, they are going

0:02:57to give you a lot of money. If people find the kind of tool that they need, not just that they like,

0:03:03because this is not about personal preference, this is about getting work done. So once a company,

0:03:09or once an individual, or a small team, it doesn't matter, once people find what they need, they're

0:03:14going to give you money. Yeah, the market is there, you just need to find it. The market might not be

0:03:19huge, and in those instances you just charge a ton of money. Yeah, exactly, because it's the kind of

0:03:26advanced software that acquires a very high investment beforehand

0:03:31and you're allowed basically by the market to charge this kind of money afterwards.

0:03:36So thank you Tim for the follow-up

0:03:39and such a great example.

0:03:43I don't know if you run a factory maybe you should check out the apps on the App Store

0:03:48or if you're Dr. Drang or someone like him maybe you will need these apps, I don't know.

0:03:53they look, you know, awesome to me because I don't understand what's going on in there.

0:03:57So it looks like...

0:03:58They look awesome in a non-usual awesome kind of way, right?

0:04:03Because they kind of look like hell to me, right?

0:04:05I guess it's just all this stuff and I'm like "I don't know what you do"

0:04:08but that's the kind of awesomeness about it because I look at it and I'm like

0:04:11"I can see that this thing exists but I don't know what any of it means."

0:04:15What's the the German word for being fascinated by something you're really afraid of?

0:04:21There's gonna be one. There's gonna be one.

0:04:24Some chapter markers? I'm not sure.

0:04:26No.

0:04:27So Myke, tell us about the other items in the follow-up.

0:04:31So Lauren wrote in, and we were talking last week about there kind of being an Apple app

0:04:36or like a banner app for the iPad Pro, right? Like the big thing, like GarageBand or something

0:04:42like that. And Lauren wrote in to say "It seemed obvious to me at the announcement that

0:04:45the banner apps for the iPad Pro are Adobe Comp, Adobe Photoshop Fix, Office, Procreate

0:04:50and the anatomy program that nobody will ever use.

0:04:52Just as Pixelmator was the banner app for iPad Air 2.

0:04:55I completely agree with this, right?

0:04:57They brought those developers onto stage

0:05:00and they were showing what these apps could do.

0:05:02And additionally, you know, they gave

0:05:04kind of early access to people like 53.

0:05:07And this definitely underscores the point

0:05:09that I think I was making last week about like,

0:05:11you know, there are apps, they're just not Apple apps.

0:05:14But I think that this further shows the change

0:05:17that Apple are going through with these things.

0:05:19They used to be the company that made this stuff,

0:05:21but now they're kind of outsourcing it.

0:05:23And I just don't know if that is the right thing to do

0:05:27or the wrong thing to do.

0:05:28Like should Apple be kind of setting the pace

0:05:31and showing what should be done on these things,

0:05:33or should they be working with third parties

0:05:34to create different experiences?

0:05:36I don't know what the right answer is,

0:05:39but I think it would be nice to see a mix of both personally

0:05:44because there is kind of like a,

0:05:46I think there is like a perception thing

0:05:48that if Apple is doing something,

0:05:49then they believe that it's worth it, right?

0:05:51They're putting their money where their mouth is.

0:05:54But I do think it's incredibly important

0:05:56that they continue to work with third parties in this way,

0:05:58this more direct way, so there are more choices

0:06:01when these new features and new products

0:06:04come onto the market.

0:06:05- Yeah, I totally agree.

0:06:06And I also believe Apple should resume their effort

0:06:11to lead by example.

0:06:14It was great to see Apple make GarageBand

0:06:17or the iWork suite for the iPad a few years ago.

0:06:21And now that they're not,

0:06:22I mean they're still updating those apps,

0:06:24but they're not making new paid apps on the App Store anymore

0:06:28and I feel like they really should,

0:06:30because it kind of sets the tone for other developers

0:06:34to follow and to be inspired by Apple.

0:06:36And I really wanna see Apple make Logic and Final Cut

0:06:40for the iPad Pro.

0:06:41I don't think it's too absurd at this point.

0:06:44We'll see what happens.

0:06:47Again, I have high hopes for next year.

0:06:51iOS 10, this is 2016, we'll see what happens, Myke.

0:06:56You know, I gotta talk about car sharing services again.

0:07:01I'm sorry, Michael, but we got follow up.

0:07:03We got follow up to handle, and a lot of people wrote in,

0:07:08including Spanish listener, Kicatin, I assume,

0:07:12it's the way that you pronounce this.

0:07:16We got this piece of feedback many many times. There's a similar service in other European countries called Car2Go.

0:07:23We mentioned this last week, Zipcar as well. Zipcar, yeah.

0:07:27It exists in the US and the UK.

0:07:29And Car2Go seems to be available in other European countries such as Spain.

0:07:34And I'm pretty sure I got feedback from maybe Denmark or Finland, I don't remember.

0:07:41member. So they use electric smart cars. We use regular gas cars here.

0:07:50Steven also had a question for you in the document that we share, Myke. Does

0:07:55Myke use any car sharing services in London? Because very famously

0:07:59you don't have a driving license. Yeah, so I don't use a service like Zipcar or

0:08:04Car2Go or what was the one that you used? Enjoy. Enjoy, because I don't drive, I

0:08:09can't drive but I do use Uber quite a lot.

0:08:13Uber? Yeah because it's it's so convenient here in London and there's

0:08:17some stuff going on right now where like the the government and the transport

0:08:21authority are trying to restrict Uber. Oh that's going around everywhere. Yeah I

0:08:25signed a petition. I know that Uber is kind of like there are people at Uber

0:08:29that make it like a terrible company but it is incredibly useful and the drivers

0:08:34seem really awesome and everybody that I speak to that is an Uber driver seems to

0:08:38be very happy with being an Uber driver. So I don't know, I mean I like the

0:08:43service a lot and it's very very very useful to me.

0:08:46Yeah I don't want to get into the politics of Uber because I got a few

0:08:50friends here who have very strong opinions about you know the taxi

0:08:53organizations and Uber coming over. But I just want to say that from my

0:08:57perspective, from my citizen and user perspective, progress always wins in the

0:09:03end and that's what people want. So you could force someone to use an old, antiquated, more

0:09:10expensive system or you could open the door to progress. But I believe that always happens

0:09:16in the end anyway, so we'll see.

0:09:19Yeah, definitely. So there you go, car sharing services. This is the show that you go to

0:09:24for car sharing news.

0:09:25Yeah, definitely.

0:09:26Stay tuned to Connected for more car sharing service news in the future.

0:09:29Oh man, imagine when Apple makes a car.

0:09:32This is the thing we're laying the groundwork man. We can point back and say we've been

0:09:37talking about cars for years.

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0:11:32So Federico you published a really interesting article the other day about kind of branching

0:11:41out again with your automation. I haven't seen anything automation related from you in a while.

0:11:46It seemed like you've maybe gotten a little bit comfortable with the setting,

0:11:50like the kind of setup that you had. So can you kind of paint the picture, like you were using

0:11:54editorial and workflows I assume mainly, but now there seems to have been a bit of a shift in that.

0:12:00Yes, I started using editorial in August 2013, actually in November 2012, since I got the first

0:12:11beta, and of course the app came out nine months later in the summer of two years ago. And I've

0:12:17And I've been using editorial for all my writing for Maxories or the Maxories Weekly newsletter

0:12:24ever since.

0:12:25Two years I built dozens and dozens of workflows in the app and I used it in conjunction with

0:12:32Pythonista, which is another app from the same developer, and eventually I kind of consolidated

0:12:38all my workflow into editorial.

0:12:41I made workflows for Markdown, for WordPress, for Mac storage deals, for basically everything.

0:12:50And I was really really happy with editorial and I still think it's an amazing app.

0:12:55Doesn't have anything similar that can get close to its power on iOS.

0:13:01The only problem is, since iOS 9 came out, the first beta in June, I've been wanting

0:13:08to write in Markdown in Split View, basically.

0:13:13I want to use my text editor in Split View.

0:13:16I want to use it in full resolution on the iPad Pro.

0:13:18I want to use the new keyboard.

0:13:20I want to use the shortcut bar.

0:13:22I want to have all these new iOS 9 features

0:13:24in the text editor that I use every day,

0:13:26which is my most used app alongside Twitter and RSS,

0:13:30maybe, living into my text editor.

0:13:33It's the single piece of software

0:13:35that powers my entire business.

0:13:37because without a proper setup I wouldn't be able to write.

0:13:41Or I would be really slow, which would be bad.

0:13:43Or I would be really annoyed and therefore not inspired,

0:13:46which would also be bad.

0:13:48So I stuck with editorial on iOS 9

0:13:53even without split view and iOS 9 features

0:13:57throughout the entire summer.

0:13:59I wrote my entire iOS 9 review in it.

0:14:03But when it was time to get an iPad Pro

0:14:05and when I was sent the review unit and when I saw what editorial looked like on the big screen,

0:14:12I was really annoyed. I really couldn't bring myself to use the app in basically upscaled,

0:14:23blown-up mode on the iPad Pro. Like how I feel every day when I have to use Google Docs.

0:14:28Exactly. So I was wondering, maybe it's time for me to consider alternatives.

0:14:36And for two years, my main problem is, there are certain tasks that if I don't automate, I'm not leaving a tutorial.

0:14:45After many years of automating certain things on my device, such as creating links, or linking to apps,

0:14:54or inserting footnotes into a document. If I don't have those tasks in an

0:15:02automatic way, I'm just not gonna do them manually because I'm too lazy or stubborn

0:15:08or you know it's just a force of habit. I have things like that that I have

0:15:13integrated into my system or have decided not to just because it's like

0:15:16this is just a little thing like a little additional thing and if it's not

0:15:21done easily for me, then I'm not gonna do it because it's not massively

0:15:25important, it's a little detail, but if those little details take 10-15

0:15:30minutes every single time, it's like well I'm not gonna do that. So same as you,

0:15:34I mean not in the same kind of ways but I've got different things in my

0:15:38workflows and my systems that do things for me because otherwise they just might

0:15:43get left out. Yeah and I know that quite a few people maybe like to help jokingly

0:15:49make fun maybe of the workflows that I have. But I'll tell you, some workflows, I may have spent

0:15:57days putting them together, but they make me, they allow me to make money, basically. Because if I put

0:16:06together a workflow that automates generating links to apps that are on sale, I can have an article with

0:16:14with a collection of app deals and discounts and I make money, because those are affiliate

0:16:20links. Or if I have a workflow that lets me put together screenshots or a collection of

0:16:27links very easily, I can save time to do something else, which means more traffic to the website.

0:16:32So I try to keep a very practical approach here. I need to be able to get work done,

0:16:37I need to be able to pay the rent at the end of each month.

0:16:40What can I do to speed up, to make my core task easier, faster, or more efficient?

0:16:51So when I was considering moving from editorial, my main question was, can I replicate some

0:16:56key features anywhere else?

0:16:59So I just want to stop about the moving from editorial thing, because I know that your

0:17:03frustrations were that maybe the app isn't being updated as quick as you

0:17:07would like, right, with new features. Is part of this like a worry that

0:17:12editorial, if it went away, what would you do? Also, partly, yeah, that's not the main

0:17:19reason, but it contributes to that. Well I think this is something you have to consider.

0:17:24Considering how much of your life is living in these

0:17:27applications, you need to have a backup plan if they die or if they go away.

0:17:33It's the rule of two for apps, you know? One app is zero apps.

0:17:38One is none.

0:17:39One is none.

0:17:40So, you know, basically I wanted to give myself options.

0:17:44And it was kind of tough initially for me to consider this process.

0:17:48Like, what am I going to judge an important workflow and what, you know, not useless but maybe secondary,

0:17:55that I can keep editorial in blown-up mode, you know, just for that workflow.

0:18:00So I cut my list down to six or seven workflows that I need to absolutely have in an automated way in my text editor.

0:18:10And I remembered one day, there was this app that I bought a couple of years ago called One Writer.

0:18:17And I had basically forgotten about this app.

0:18:23In the back of my mind I kind of knew that it was possible to create JavaScript actions inside this app.

0:18:31But maybe when I was in the tutorial I didn't want to acknowledge the fact, or maybe I just didn't need another app with actions and scripts.

0:18:40But now it was the perfect time to give one writer another chance and to see what can I do with JavaScript.

0:18:47So it was also a good excuse to learn the basics of a new scripting language.

0:18:51I won't lie here, Myke.

0:18:54I kind of have fun doing these type of things.

0:18:57You know, it makes me relax.

0:18:59I don't know. I don't know.

0:19:01Maybe, you know, it makes sense for me because I like learning.

0:19:05I like being curious and I like basically challenging my own brain.

0:19:09And I think it's good for brain health to, you know, to try new things,

0:19:13to learn every day.

0:19:15How did you come back around to OneWriter?

0:19:17Because again, the process was, OK, I need another option.

0:19:22I need a tax editor.

0:19:24What can I do to automate these key tasks?

0:19:28And I just made the connection.

0:19:30You know, OneWriter has this JavaScript support.

0:19:34I can maybe take a look.

0:19:37And when I first read the documentation,

0:19:41I realized that it wasn't as advanced as a tutorial, of course.

0:19:45There's no visual workflow building here.

0:19:48It's all scripts and it's all JavaScript code.

0:19:53You cannot drag and drop actions, there's no preset actions for you,

0:19:57you're all on your own.

0:19:59This is the scenario for me where

0:20:01I could dip my toe into editorial like I can with workflow, and we're going to talk

0:20:06about workflow in a little bit, because it's visual, right? So I can

0:20:10use it like building blocks but I was looking at the screenshots of what you

0:20:15were doing with one writer and it's impossible for me to understand so I was

0:20:20like looking at some of this stuff and I can see that you're using Coda right

0:20:23which is yeah Coda is so beautiful yeah it is oh my word I actually bought it

0:20:28recently I don't even know why I did it I can't remember the reason why I did

0:20:35this out of goodwill. I needed to do something I can't remember what it was

0:20:40and I was doing some googling and it was like Coda could do it and it was just

0:20:45like one thing I needed one time and I was like man I do love this app so I

0:20:50bought it because you know Panic is just one of those companies like I just want

0:20:54to give them money all the time right any any reason that I can keep it's like

0:20:59with these guys it's like with smile it's like with the Omni group like I

0:21:03I just want to give these people money.

0:21:06So I bought Coda for iOS.

0:21:08It's interesting, there are companies like this that are just like "let me give you some

0:21:12of my money because I like what you do".

0:21:15Yeah, I know what it was.

0:21:17I was kind of looking for a new text editor and I was like "let me just see".

0:21:21It was like "nope, too powerful".

0:21:23Nope!

0:21:24This is not for me!

0:21:27But it's stunning.

0:21:29Anyway, so I'm looking at these screenshots and I don't understand how any of this works.

0:21:37So how did you even learn JavaScript?

0:21:40You don't have a coding background, you're like me.

0:21:43You don't have a computer science degree or anything like that, like so many of our friends

0:21:48do.

0:21:49You don't have any training in it.

0:21:50How did you learn this stuff?

0:21:51So what I'm about to say will maybe sound like heresy to programmers, but at least for

0:21:59So I learned a bit of Python years ago. I read some books and I did a lot of online documentation.

0:22:08I read the standard library documentation for Python and a lot of trial and error.

0:22:14Stack overflow questions and common threads, that kind of stuff. I just learned a bit of Python on my own.

0:22:21With the basics of Python, I feel like it was very easy to get started with JavaScript

0:22:26because the main ideas are kind of the same.

0:22:29You create variables, you need to be careful when you want to use plain text,

0:22:33which is called literal strings.

0:22:37You just need to learn a bit of commands,

0:22:41and they're called objects and methods in JavaScript.

0:22:45But it's different from Python, and I personally prefer how Python is more readable,

0:22:54I prefer the syntax, but JavaScript...

0:22:56- I would like to just state for the record

0:22:58that the connected podcast does not endorse

0:23:00or support any one specific coding language.

0:23:02- No, no, no, yeah.

0:23:03It's just me.

0:23:04I'm totally, so for programmers out there,

0:23:07please don't get upset.

0:23:08- I don't want that kind of follow up, man.

0:23:10I don't want it.

0:23:11- Yes, please don't be upset.

0:23:13We are nice guys.

0:23:14And I'm just an ignorant person

0:23:17who learned some very basic Python

0:23:20that he uses for very basic scripts

0:23:23that I'll ever get my job done.

0:23:25So, anyway, I basically took a look at some online documentation for JavaScript

0:23:34and, again, a lot of Stack Overflow and just trial and error.

0:23:38A bit of feedback for Coda.

0:23:42You can edit code in the app, but you cannot run or execute JavaScript.

0:23:49It's not an interpreter, it's just a text editor.

0:23:52So I was looking for something like Pythonista but for JavaScript on iOS

0:23:57and sadly I couldn't find any options, Myke, aside from a single app called IJS

0:24:04which has not been updated for the iPad Pro, which doesn't look good, but which executes JavaScript on iOS.

0:24:12Could it be bumping into some kind of app store rule? Is that the problem maybe?

0:24:16No, because Pythonista exists, so you know.

0:24:19So you know.

0:24:20Python East has had some problems though over time.

0:24:22Yeah but it's fine, you know.

0:24:24It doesn't do, it's got its own interpreter built in, doesn't do anything to the system

0:24:29that doesn't require your permission, you know.

0:24:31So when you write the code, you have to put it into one writer to execute it to see if

0:24:37it actually works.

0:24:38Your test is actually put it back in the app.

0:24:39See that's not elegant enough really, is it?

0:24:42No, no, no.

0:24:43And if anyone is listening, developers, consider the market for a JavaScript interpreter on

0:24:47iOS.

0:24:48think it's too crazy. You know why, Myke? Because in the next few months you're going to see, and I'm

0:24:53not going to tell you who or what or when, but you're going to see a lot of developers starting

0:24:57to use JavaScript for automation in their iOS apps. You'll see. I believe there's going to be a market,

0:25:03but we'll follow up on this. Anyway, so yeah, I needed to edit the text in Coda and paste it into

0:25:11rather than see if it worked. There was a lot of trial and error involved, Michael.

0:25:17I spent two, three days basically locked into this JavaScript environment, trying to replicate

0:25:24all my workflows, and in the end I did manage to build them. Maybe they're more simplified,

0:25:30maybe they're not as advanced or fancy as the workflows in the tutorial, but they replicate

0:25:36the same functionality. But something even more interesting happened. Because I was using

0:25:43BurnRider in SplitView, I found myself not needing a lot of the workflows that I used

0:25:50to have in a tutorial as a fullscreen app. So the ability to use this new text editor,

0:25:56alongside maybe Safari or my mail program or something else, basically cut many of the

0:26:05needs for workflows into a single app. So because I can look at two different apps at

0:26:12the same time, I don't need to do a lot of automation anymore. My workflow for inserting

0:26:18links from the editorial browser into the text editor, now it just became kind of useless

0:26:25for OneWriter because I can just put Safari next to the app, tap and hold the Safari address

0:26:31bar, copy the link and I create a link in the app because it's got a link button in

0:26:38the shortcut bar thanks to iOS 9.

0:26:42These iOS 9 features and the ability to use two apps at the same time kind of made me

0:26:47reconsider some of my automation. But that's not to say that I don't need automation. So

0:26:51I'm still doing... I have a workflow for generating App Store links. I have another for footnotes.

0:26:59I actually have two for footnotes.

0:27:01Today, I just published another one to send my text

0:27:05to Workflow, which has a new action that publishes it

0:27:09to my website, because it's got a new WordPress support,

0:27:12which is awesome.

0:27:13So it was an interesting process.

0:27:16And I put a big, giant disclaimer at the top.

0:27:21If editorial gets an update,

0:27:23I don't know what's gonna happen.

0:27:25I'm probably gonna move back.

0:27:27Because all this was coming from the perspective of,

0:27:31I'm really annoyed because editorial

0:27:33doesn't have iOS 9 integration.

0:27:35When it does have iOS 9 features,

0:27:38I'm probably going to be tempted to go back.

0:27:41- But there is a big benefit in doing what you've done.

0:27:45- Exactly.

0:27:46- Because you've kind of flexed your muscles

0:27:47a little bit more and can see that there is options

0:27:52for you outside of editorial, which is very important.

0:27:55Yeah, and it was fun, first of all, for me. It makes me feel maybe a little more secure about the kind of tools that I use, because if editorial disappears, I got this other option.

0:28:07Or if the other option disappears, I got editorial.

0:28:09And it was informative in a way, not just about JavaScript but to understand the way that I work.

0:28:18I feel that I understood my needs and my requirements, especially now after iOS 9, a little better.

0:28:25Because I now like to do this kind of introspection, workflow introspection I guess you could call it.

0:28:31Every year I like to understand what I really need, how I can simplify my life, how I can save time.

0:28:38because the end goal for me is... I got three goals. I wanna write stuff that I'm proud of,

0:28:45I wanna make money, and I wanna spend time with my family and my friends.

0:28:49So if I can, you know, when it comes to work, if I can create the kind of setup that allows me to do this,

0:28:56I'm really happy. So every year I like to do this kind of self-analysis and trying to understand what I can improve.

0:29:03And this is one of those... one of those scenarios, you know, I took a look at

0:29:07What's my key task every day? I need to write. And what do I use to write? I use this tech editor.

0:29:13And what's the problem here? It doesn't support iOS 9. So what can I do?

0:29:16It was a very fun and I feel useful process, Myke.

0:29:20So going back to the coding thing, you mentioned that you wrote some code from scratch, even though there were other things out there.

0:29:28Right, like code libraries or whatever you would call it, like examples that you could use.

0:29:33Why did you do that? Why did you decide to write stuff from scratch instead of like just borrowing from other people done?

0:29:39because um

0:29:42There was no

0:29:43alternative there wasn't no like no one has the need to

0:29:47I don't know place the cursor next to a footnote and see what the footnote says

0:29:53So while stuff exists in general, it doesn't exist in the Federico Vittucci way

0:29:59Exactly, and I'm very nitpicky about the automation that I like to do.

0:30:05So I used, you know, Philip Grennage, he does a fantastic job with JavaScript and with Python

0:30:11also on his website, OneTapLess.

0:30:14So I borrowed, you know, his App Store action for OneWriter and I had to modify it to my

0:30:22needs but, you know, if I didn't have Philip's work as an inspiration and as a model, I wouldn't

0:30:28I can probably be able to do that because it requires web actions beyond my knowledge,

0:30:34but I could modify it to show lists, to give me options and that kind of stuff.

0:30:40In many cases I like to use something that is made by other people,

0:30:47so I can also save the time I would have spent making it my own and writing from scratch.

0:30:54But in the majority of the workflows that are really key to what I do, like footnotes or markdown links in editorial,

0:31:06I always need to make them from scratch. Because the time that I spend optimizing a workflow made by someone else,

0:31:17I could have used that to make it from scratch and to make it better from the get-go.

0:31:21When possible, I like to download workflows from others.

0:31:26But in general, I try to use, and this is also the reason why I

0:31:29make my actions and my workflows available to other people,

0:31:33I try to use them more as a learning tool.

0:31:36I take a look at what another person does and then I'm gonna use that knowledge

0:31:42to make my own workflow, to make my own setup here, because I can take a look at the example.

0:31:50This is what I do, Myke. I download stuff by other people. I take a look, I learn, I try, I fail,

0:31:56I spend two days, I text you, you tell me I'm crazy, and then we do a podcast about it.

0:32:00For the remaining actions that you have in editorial, the ones that you can't recreate, I'm assuming because they're too complex maybe,

0:32:09what is the back up there? Like, do you have any thinking in mind?

0:32:14Like, what are you gonna do with some of those? If, you know, preparing for... it's not, right?

0:32:19There's no reason to say that editorial is going away, there's no reason to say it won't get an update,

0:32:23but what this has highlighted is a potential hole in your system, a little chink in your armor, you may say.

0:32:29What is the backup there for you, or say for example Apple pulled this app from the App Store.

0:32:35What would you do?

0:32:37So what I can do is, if really there's no alternative to editorial on iOS,

0:32:44My more advanced actions are basically all based on Python, so I can take the Python code,

0:32:51replace some of the visual actions with more Python code, and I can use the code in Pythonista.

0:32:59If also there's a problem with Pythonista, maybe it goes away, disappears, or Apple removes it,

0:33:05I can take the Python code and use it on my Mac. So if there's no option,

0:33:11Python code is open to everyone. I can still use that in some form on some machine. So, you know,

0:33:18the worst case scenario is I end up with a bunch of Python and I need to run it on my Mac.

0:33:27But, you know, I don't think that's gonna happen.

0:33:30Have you ever thought about having somebody build something for you?

0:33:34Yes. I considered the option a few years ago, just make these apps for me.

0:33:41Maybe I will consider it again in the future.

0:33:45Because I was thinking about this just before editorial came out, basically three years ago, when I was recovering from treatments.

0:33:53I was like, maybe now I should just consider making apps for me that I can use, that I can pay to keep them updated all the time.

0:34:02Then the editorial came around and I started playing with editorial and then Workflow and all these other apps.

0:34:10But now it's been in the back of my mind again to kind of say, "Maybe if someone was making this app, like an internal app just for me,

0:34:19maybe I could have the craziest features available exactly the way that I want them."

0:34:25I don't know, Myke. It's something that I think about every once in a while and lately more often,

0:34:32but I don't think it's happening anytime soon.

0:34:35So there was one piece that I wanted to read, a little quote, which was from the article that you wrote,

0:34:43which of course is in our show notes, and it goes like this.

0:34:45"By being able to use OneWriter alongside other apps with split view on iOS 9,

0:34:49and finding myself depending on fewer workflows, using two apps at the same time

0:34:53time has enabled me to cut down the number of steps required to reduce time

0:34:57spent editing, researching material, or publishing articles to WordPress. Now

0:35:02when I read this I had like a flashback to your iOS 8 review where you spoke

0:35:09about how you were using URL schemes less and less because Apple were

0:35:13building in tools to reduce that requirement. Oh yeah, oh yeah. And it

0:35:18Reminded me a lot of that. So it's like the same kind of idea that this is a

0:35:23Display to me that contrary to what many people may say or believe including us at times

0:35:30the iOS is growing and becoming more powerful. Yeah, and

0:35:34Some of the crazy stuff that Federico Vitech has done over the years is now kind of being implemented in Apple's way

0:35:43Yeah, actually that's great, you know, follow up Myke, I had forgotten about that.

0:35:49I'm still using URL schemes, you know, just today for example in the OneWriter

0:35:54workflow communication, but that's maybe the only URL scheme I've used in like six months.

0:36:01So definitely, I've seen especially, you know, starting last year with iOS 8 and extensions, I've seen myself

0:36:09Coming from this perspective of,

0:36:13I've been relying on these crazy workarounds for many years to

0:36:19speed up the time that I spend in those apps,

0:36:24and now I'm using these system features.

0:36:27It's happening again this year with multitasking and split view.

0:36:32I'm like, if I'm looking at two apps at the same time,

0:36:35is there really anything to automate anymore?

0:36:38because I can just move the data with these two apps that are available to me at the same time.

0:36:45And definitely I've been noticing moving from trying to trick the system into using the system

0:36:56in a way. I'm not employing so many workarounds anymore. In fact, I think I'm using native

0:37:05features more and more in combination with standalone apps.

0:37:10So it's not like I'm using URL schemes and bookmarklets to move from app to app because

0:37:16that's kind of an option.

0:37:19I'm using Split View, I'm using the shortcut bar, I'm using extensions.

0:37:24Then if developers take advantage of these features to build crazy apps such as Workflow

0:37:29or Japs or Runwriter, that's even better.

0:37:33But the key aspect here is iOS has improved and for people who get work done like me,

0:37:38and this is not just about blogging or writing reviews, this extends to many other aspects

0:37:45of working and doing these productive tasks on iOS.

0:37:52The system is now capable enough and there is a parallel maybe to last year, Myke, so

0:37:59I'll give you credit.

0:38:02good follow-up. This isn't the only thing that you've been playing around with

0:38:06this week. It's been like Federico workflow week. So we have a couple of

0:38:11other little interesting things to talk about but before that let's take a break

0:38:15to thank Fracture for sponsoring this week's episode of Connected. Fracture is

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0:38:52know, they love that and we love being able to talk about what they do. I have

0:38:55so many Fracture prints like in our home of podcast artwork and I'm looking

0:39:01forward to getting some more real soon because it's one of those things like

0:39:04Fractures are just I don't know it's just such a beautiful little thing to

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0:39:20kind of put a picture of your family on the wall rather than having it you know

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0:39:43buying some fractures for somebody as a gift or having them gifted to you by a

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0:40:11prints that they can do for you and if you use the code connected at checkout

0:40:15you will not only get 15% off your first order you'll also help support this show

0:40:20which of course is very important to you, I hope, as it's important to us that we can stick around.

0:40:24Once again, huge thanks to Fracture for supporting Real AFM.

0:40:27And don't forget, if you get some Fractures printed, I love to see pictures of them,

0:40:31so feel free to tweet them to me. I like to see what people get printed out onto their Fractures.

0:40:34So Federico, the Workflow app has also continued to be a big and important thing to you,

0:40:44and there's also some new stuff that you wanted to talk about today.

0:40:47Yeah, today the app was updated to include a new "Publish to WordPress" action, which is exactly

0:40:55what I've been dreaming to have for basically forever on my iPad. So you can now send any text

0:41:04or rich text or images to your WordPress blog or blogs because you can add multiple accounts,

0:41:11both WordPress.com and self-hosted WordPress.org blogs.

0:41:17The letter is what I use at Mac Stories.

0:41:19You can send any text and you can pre-program any specific field, so you can set a title

0:41:27or you can set categories or tags or slugs, excerpts, all the basic fields of a WordPress

0:41:34item.

0:41:36You can access in Workflow, you can put in some text, you can use variables, you can

0:41:41and combine them with actions, and you can build workflows just for WordPress, which

0:41:47is amazing.

0:41:48And, again, I've been trying to do this for many, many years.

0:41:53I remember back in 2010 or 2011, maybe, I got this link in the review today, I started

0:42:00to use Blogsy, which used to be one of the first blog editors for the iPad.

0:42:07got a really skeuomorphic interface back in the day. It was one of the first apps to bring the ideal of Mars Edit on iOS.

0:42:17Was that the one with the rabbit?

0:42:19The rabbit? No, it...

0:42:21It had a little rabbit icon.

0:42:22Oh yeah, maybe it had a rabbit.

0:42:24Yeah, I think they had a little rabbit.

0:42:26Like a black icon, maybe?

0:42:28I don't know. I remember a cartoon... or maybe that was something else.

0:42:32I remember there was an app that had a cartoon rabbit and it was like a Mars Edit type app.

0:42:39This one is blogzapp.com, it's got a typewriter icon.

0:42:46And I remember being fascinated by this idea.

0:42:49I was coming from the background as a heavy Mac user.

0:42:58I was looking at the iPad and the thought of being able to get work done on iOS was

0:43:04starting to fascinate me. I saw this app and I remember Broxy was not perfect, he had many,

0:43:10many issues. But it was the start of something new for me.

0:43:14I remember this.

0:43:15And through the years, I've been looking for... I've tried all of the WordPress capable apps

0:43:23on iOS. Posts was another one. Poster was the one that became my favorite. It got acquired

0:43:32by Automattic, the company, or how do you say, Automattic?

0:43:36I just say Automattic. You can't pronounce those extra T's. You just can't do that.

0:43:43It got acquired by the parent company of WordPress and it was my favorite. And then I moved to,

0:43:512013, I was so annoyed by, you know, there's no perfect WordPress client that does exactly

0:43:58what I want, I'm just gonna make my own. And that's what I did. In the tutorial I was using

0:44:03Python to access the XML RPC API, which is an API that lets you talk to your WordPress

0:44:11blog. And I built, over the course of many, many weeks, I built the, basically what I

0:44:20I thought was the perfect workflow for me. So with exactly the

0:44:26precise sequence of steps that I want. So first it lets me confirm a title, then it

0:44:33asks me for categories, then it lets me use tags, and then it finally publishes

0:44:38the article to my website, and it takes me to the website to make sure

0:44:42that everything looks okay. So for two years, Myke, I've been using this

0:44:49workflow to publish content to Mac stories for both normal articles and linked items

0:44:57when I link to someone else. I've been using this every single day for two years and it

0:45:03was a very ugly code but it got the job done and it was practical.

0:45:08Sometimes that's the way man, it doesn't need to be pretty, it just needs to work.

0:45:11It wasn't pretty and it worked but many times it threw me an error because you know it wasn't

0:45:17the perfect piece of script, because I didn't build any error-checking routine into the

0:45:23code, so it just failed sometimes. And if I had too many tags on WordPress, it just

0:45:29didn't work, so periodically I needed to go through my WordPress backend and clean up

0:45:34some tags. You know, it wasn't perfect, but I've been using it to publish, you know, my

0:45:38iPad review, my cancer story, all my important articles were published that way. Except the

0:45:46the iPad review that I needed to paste into the website first and save as a draft and

0:45:54very nervously confirm that the embargo time was up and that I could publish. I just didn't

0:46:00trust Python for that. But everything else, 99% of my articles, all done with the ugly

0:46:06Python code. So when the Workflow team approached me a few weeks ago, they were like "Hey, we

0:46:14make a WordPress action. Can you give us some feedback?" I was ecstatic, it doesn't even

0:46:19describe the kind of feeling. It's like the single aspect of your job gets drastically

0:46:29improved overnight. It's like you need to transport something for a living and overnight

0:46:38you go from very tiresome transportation to being in charge of a space rocket.

0:46:46That was what I keep thinking about. It was such an improvement for me. And this action is amazing,

0:46:54because I can combine it with anything. And it's not Python code, it's got an interface,

0:47:02It's got menus that I can see and that I can customize.

0:47:06And I can use it with any text editor.

0:47:09Not just with one writer, which is what I'm doing now,

0:47:12but I can use it in drafts if I want.

0:47:15I can use it with notes if I want.

0:47:17I can use it in editorial.

0:47:19And this is the kind of freedom that using plain text, using Markdown,

0:47:23and relying on the system, not on a single work-around,

0:47:27or not on a single app, this is the kind of freedom that you get.

0:47:31you have portability of your workflows. You can move from app to app, because the iOS

0:47:37sharesheet is open to every app, and workflow, as long as you give it text, it's going to publish to

0:47:43WordPress. And so I've been, all the articles that you've seen on Mac Stories for the past couple of

0:47:49weeks, they're all being done with workflow on my iPad or the iPhone with this action, and it's so

0:47:58So much better for me, Myke. I'm just so happy.

0:48:02So what actually makes this different? Is it just making the step easier?

0:48:08Is it still going through all the same processes that you went through?

0:48:10So how is this publish to workflow action even working?

0:48:15So it's the same steps. I provide some text, which is my article's text,

0:48:22and I copy the file name of my txt file, which is what I used to write, to the iOS clipboard.

0:48:30And the workflow applies title case, which is the kind of format that I like for my headlines,

0:48:37lets me confirm the title, you know, if maybe I need to make sure the title case looks okay,

0:48:43or if I want to make some last minute changes to the headline. And then it takes the text and

0:48:49and it asks me, is this a normal article or is this a linked post?

0:48:53If it's a linked post, I pick a link that I want to use as the actual web page that I'm linking to.

0:49:00If it's not, it just goes straight to WordPress.

0:49:04And in the WordPress section, what it does is, it uses the title that I provided as the article title.

0:49:11I'm logged into my account, so it uses Federico Vittucci as the author.

0:49:16It publishes now, so I don't have to take care of any timestamp, and it uses the plain text, the markdown, that I gave it.

0:49:24Because on Mac stories we use Jetpack, which is a plugin from automatic that lets us

0:49:31use markdown in our backend, and it looks like HTML to readers.

0:49:36These are the three steps that I like. Of course, I didn't mention categories and tags.

0:49:44It asks me for a title, asks me for taxonomy, so categories and tags, and it asks me for a linked or regular article.

0:49:56I need to be able to manually confirm all of these parameters, and I need to be able to make that choice.

0:50:02I don't want the computer to make that choice for me.

0:50:05And after that, it just goes to WordPress. I don't have to do any copy and paste, I don't have to use the WordPress app,

0:50:12I don't need to manually confirm, yes, this is me,

0:50:17or yes, I want to publish now.

0:50:19It just does everything automatically.

0:50:21And it takes me to Safari, to maxstories.net,

0:50:24automatically at the end of the process,

0:50:26so I can confirm that the new post is indeed

0:50:29at the top of the website,

0:50:30and I can go back to work on something else.

0:50:33- So I guess the benefit for you then

0:50:34is now that you're able to do this from wherever you are,

0:50:37like in theory, you could publish to WordPress

0:50:41from the Notes app?

0:50:42Yes. And not only is it available anywhere, it's much, much faster and more reliable than

0:50:51my ugly Python code. It can fetch hundreds of tags with no problem. It can give me communicate

0:50:59errors if something happens instead of just failing. And it's a much better interface

0:51:05for WordPress because it's all done natively with iOS APIs instead of being

0:51:11you know Python work around in an editorial. It's available anywhere and

0:51:16it's faster and I trust it more than my very poor coding skills.

0:51:24So this is like just another example of the workflow app continuing to grow like they have

0:51:29really put a lot of work into this over time and it seems to be getting more and

0:51:32more powerful for people?

0:51:34Yeah, these guys are just insane.

0:51:38I see a lot of potential for Workflow going forward to expand to many different services.

0:51:48And the idea of WordPress, it's not completely done yet.

0:51:56For instance, you cannot update an existing article, you can only publish a new one.

0:52:02And you gotta believe that eventually you will get a more complete suite of WordPress actions.

0:52:07But, you know, this idea of... Workflow started as kind of an automator for iOS.

0:52:14Because, you know, the interface and the idea of drag and drop and system integrations,

0:52:19but now it's become much more than that, because it's perfectly and easily integrated with apps,

0:52:25and it communicates with all these different web services.

0:52:29It's much more than what Apple is doing with Automate on OS X, which is kind of forgotten anyway.

0:52:34This is a modern take, and a fresh one also, on automation on iOS, communication between apps,

0:52:42and integrating with all these different attach points.

0:52:47So you can have an action extension, you can have a "Today" widget,

0:52:51You can run the app normally, or you can put a shortcut on your home screen.

0:52:57You can use 3D Touch.

0:52:59So it's this sort of automation layer spread across all of these different iOS features,

0:53:04and you can use it in any kind of app that you want.

0:53:08And it's this kind of freedom and portability that makes me feel much, much better

0:53:15about automating in workflow rather than being constrained inside a single app

0:53:20and then wondering what's gonna happen. You can make the same argument. What

0:53:24happens if workflow goes away? Well then I go back to programming anyway.

0:53:30Yeah, because that was why I wanted to talk about this as well, because it's interesting to

0:53:33see how the workflow app is continuing to be really really actively developed.

0:53:38And I'm trying not to cast aspersions on the editorial,

0:53:45whatever, they're just different. Where it seems like editorial was

0:53:49receiving work but at a slower pace and workflow from what I can understand

0:53:53there is a team of people that work on this app. I'm interested to know,

0:53:57like I don't know if you know, the workflow developers, do they do this

0:54:02for a living? Yeah. Okay, but this isn't all they do though, right?

0:54:06They have like an app called Desk Connect or something as well? Yeah, but

0:54:10they're really focused on workflow I think. So that is, you know, it seems to be

0:54:13doing very well for them. I wish, you know, as with always these apps, I wish

0:54:16they would do something more that I could pay for again because you worry

0:54:21about these things going away. And workflow is like, you know, like with many

0:54:25of these things I use it very very lightly and I really wish that I used it

0:54:29more but it's for me it's interesting that like a couple of weeks ago I was

0:54:35talking to Brad at the pen addict and I wanted him to make a gif of something

0:54:40like you know it's just a way that a specific pen action moved and he was

0:54:43gonna put it on his site and I was like you should make a gif and he was like

0:54:46how should I do that? And I opened up the App Store to start searching for like an

0:54:50app to turn a video into a GIF and I was like no hang on a minute and then I just

0:54:54opened Workflow and built it for him. And I was like that feels good.

0:54:59Because I know how to use that app it's so simple for me to use and I

0:55:04every now and then I just have to remind myself like that is just something I can

0:55:08go into and I'm able to build and chain together some basic things. Like it was

0:55:12the same as the other day somebody sent me a Dropbox link of an mp3 file on iOS

0:55:18I was on iOS and like it's so frustrating that sometimes Dropbox links

0:55:21on iOS they just give you a player like you can't download them to your Dropbox

0:55:26right and it's like why does this do this so I opened workflow I threw the

0:55:30mp3 file in there and it uploaded to my Dropbox right like I built that to do

0:55:34that you know like take this mp3 file extract it upload it to Dropbox job done

0:55:38So it is extremely powerful and for me it's like this stuff exists on the Mac

0:55:45but I don't know how to do it right it's more complicated. Like

0:55:49Automator is way more complicated for me than what it is. Yes it is Myke.

0:55:55So it's really interesting that I can do this stuff more powerfully on iOS. Me, you

0:56:01know I'm sure other people can do it way easier on the Mac than I can on iOS but

0:56:04there's this tool out there that I can use for this stuff and it's really

0:56:08cool and I'm very happy that it exists and it's cool that it's getting continually updated and

0:56:13more powerful over time. That's what some people don't understand when they say "oh yeah look at

0:56:20the iPad now you're so cute you can make workflows to download files" well you know we've been doing

0:56:26that on the Mac for 20 years. That's true but these people are maybe missing the point that

0:56:35there's a sense of feeling, you know, free in a way, when you're able to... maybe you're

0:56:42in a rush, or you're talking to a friend and you gotta make a gif, or you gotta download

0:56:47a file, and you can do that wherever you are, on a phone, and you can use a 3G connection

0:56:54to work with the web, and you don't have to sit down at a desk and no programming, you

0:56:59can just drag and drop actions. And I can do it. My mom can do it, because I tried.

0:57:05A kid in China can do it, because it's available on the App Store. And it's this utility that

0:57:15has many, many possibilities. And I get the argument about, you know, you can do this

0:57:22on a Mac. But there's a feeling of, in a way, liberation in being able to do that on a mobile

0:57:28device. I truly believe that even if these apps go away, even if editorial

0:57:36eventually disappears, or Workflow, or you know, JAR or Pythonista, automation

0:57:42always finds a way. We've been here before. When there were no

0:57:48apps, we used URL schemes and JavaScript and bookmarks. It wasn't as good

0:57:54as it is today, but it got the job done, you know, for many people. And I believe that,

0:58:01you know, if things change, if Apple changes their mind, I don't think so, I think it'll

0:58:06only get better from here. But we can go back, we can figure out something else, and, you

0:58:13know, people who need to get work done on a computer, those who care about it tend to

0:58:20find a way to do it faster or more efficiently. So I'm really an optimist at heart, Myke,

0:58:27and I believe we'll always find a way. But what you mentioned about helping friends put

0:58:35together workflows, if you allow me here, I wanted to mention that I'm doing something

0:58:41similar for Collab Maxories members starting this week. There's going to be a workflow

0:58:47Corner in Maxories Weekly. People can ask me, because this always happens on Twitter via email,

0:58:54so members can ask me ideas for workflows or questions for inspiration for "How can I do

0:59:01this? Do you have any recommendation?" And I thought it was fun to put together a mix of

0:59:06the teach-a-tip and the weekly Q&A session. It's kind of like that. It's a combination of the two.

0:59:13It's gonna be fun. I got a few requests already to make workflows for other people to respond to questions.

0:59:20That's what I'm gonna do. It's gonna be fun.

0:59:22So it's gonna be available in issue 10, already 10 issues, crazy, of MaxAris Weekly.

0:59:28It's gonna be sent later this Friday,

0:59:31and actually more like Saturday morning, because you know, Myke, I'm gonna celebrate Thanksgiving this year.

0:59:38Oh, yeah?

0:59:39Yes, I am, finally. My dream is coming true.

0:59:42One of Silvia's teachers is from the US, is now living in America, and the entire dance school is

0:59:49throwing a Thanksgiving dinner to celebrate with the teacher and all of the students and, you know,

0:59:54boyfriends and girlfriends. That's gonna be amazing. Yeah, that's gonna be so nice. It's gonna be like 30 people. It's gonna be crazy.

1:00:01So where can people sign up for Club Max Stories Federico?

1:00:06clap.maccstories.net and you can find all the options there.

1:00:10And that's where you can get some artisanally crafted work clothes from Federica Vitigi.

1:00:15Yes, directly from the source. That's what's going on here, Myke.

1:00:20Okay Federica, I have an Apple Pencil now and I want to talk about it a little bit and talk about the fact that I wrote a review for it.

1:00:27I think that might be a little fun to explore, but before I do that let me just thank Squarespace for helping support this week's episode as well.

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1:02:03Squarespace have their dev platform, so you get all of the power of Squarespace and all

1:02:07of the great features, but you're still able to go in and make some tweaks here and there

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1:02:32go and try it out and then when you decide to sign up make sure that you use

1:02:35the offer code world check out you'll get 10% off your first purchase and show

1:02:39your support for this show thank you so much to Squarespace for supporting

1:02:42relay FM Squarespace build it beautiful so I finally have an Apple pencil here

1:02:49hang on a second there we go that's the apple pencil. Just to prove that I

1:02:55have it I mean only the Apple pencil could make that sound of course I would

1:03:00like to just reiterate that Apple need to get their stuff together I had this

1:03:05this pencil came to me via Marco Arment from New York City. Wow. Yeah this is the

1:03:12only way they're still not in London I I cannot find them I've still been

1:03:17checking in with people and the Apple Store reps and it still seems like

1:03:20they're just not coming into the store. There might be some in certain places

1:03:25but they're not readily available. But Marco was able to get his hands on a

1:03:29couple of them and he very very kindly FedExed it to me and I've had it for

1:03:35about maybe four or five days something like that maybe a little bit longer

1:03:39close to a week now. And this was a product that I felt so strongly about

1:03:45that I wrote a review of it which is a very rare thing for me to do. A review

1:03:51with text? Actual written word. Wow okay. And I published this, well I gave this to

1:03:59Brad Dowdy of the pen addict to publish it because the pen addict felt like a

1:04:02really great avenue, a real great venue for me to express my thoughts about this

1:04:07because the way that I was coming to this and my feelings about the Apple

1:04:11Pencil is how is this as a handwriting tool? Because I do the

1:04:16Pen Addict podcast with Brad every week and we're very closely connected on this

1:04:20stuff and it felt to me like this was where it would go. Because I put a

1:04:27link in the post to an episode, episode 11 of The Pen Addict, where we spoke

1:04:33about digital tools like styluses and stuff like that and how we felt about

1:04:36them and in that episode we were talking about how we both really kind of would

1:04:41like the idea of being able to take real handwritten notes on the iPad. This

1:04:45episode was published on April 24 2012. So this is something I've wanted for a

1:04:52long time. And the Apple Pencil delivers. That's my overall

1:04:57feeling about this. I can take the iPad and the Apple Pencil, the iPad Pro and

1:05:04the Apple Pencil, and I can write on it. I can use it and I can write a

1:05:07sentence. If I take a piece of paper and a pen and write on that piece of paper,

1:05:11and I compare the two of them, they look the same. And that was what it always

1:05:15was. That was always the problem, is that previous styluses and previous apps, you

1:05:19would have to write in a very exaggerated way, right? You couldn't be

1:05:23precise about this stuff, at least in a way that made me happy. It was easier to

1:05:28be more precise with drawing tools, but handwriting is very, very precise

1:05:33movement required to correctly handwrite. Because you're writing very small and

1:05:38you're making very small and subtle movements but they make a massive

1:05:41difference and I have not found any product that has been able to do this

1:05:46before but the Apple Pencil 100% delivers on that and I really really

1:05:51couldn't be happier with this as a handwriting input tool.

1:05:56It was fascinating to read your review Myke, you sent me a copy before you

1:06:02published it. And you very kindly corrected my grammar.

1:06:06I got a script for that, Myke. But I also read it, and it was really a good one.

1:06:12And I think that you bring a unique perspective that a lot of people, including me, don't have.

1:06:18Because personally I don't use physical pens anymore.

1:06:21So I think it was a great idea to publish it on the Pen Addict.

1:06:26But I wanted to ask you about writing your review.

1:06:29Does this come from maybe a dissatisfaction with the launch reviews and the fact that

1:06:35no one, including me, focused on the kind of aspects that you wanted to cover or to

1:06:40know more about?

1:06:41The problem was twofold.

1:06:45Well, actually, let's say threefold.

1:06:49Increase the folds.

1:06:50One, I was dissatisfied, right?

1:06:52Because nobody wrote about this from a handwriting perspective.

1:06:57nobody did that. Two, I didn't really feel like anybody cares about it the way that

1:07:05I do and I didn't trust anybody else's opinion when I was asking them for how

1:07:11it was handwriting because nobody could, including yourself as much as I love you,

1:07:16could really give me an answer that I trusted. Because nobody really

1:07:21cares about this stuff like I do. I was dissatisfied. Just simply because

1:07:26there is just no one that, well there are, but you know, of the people that

1:07:30have got these things to review, everybody's talking about these things, how

1:07:34it is to draw, how the movement is, and they would say "oh yeah you can write" but

1:07:38it's like no, there are so many specific things about this that need to be right

1:07:44for me and one of the ones that I really focus on in the review is the weight.

1:07:48Now this is something that is so important in these types of tools and

1:07:53is very often just forgotten about but to people like me who care about these

1:07:58types of implements, you know I love pens and I love pencils, the weighting of

1:08:02these products is so important and the thing is like what Apple did was they

1:08:08put they put weights in this, I believe to serve two purposes. One is to stop the

1:08:13pencil from rolling away easily, the other is they are magnetic, right, so you

1:08:18you can lightly attach the pencil to the edge of the iPad.

1:08:23It is not a storing device, it is merely, I think,

1:08:26to just place it down while you type or something like that,

1:08:29which is great that it does that.

1:08:30But the way they have done this is key to me,

1:08:33that there is a weight that goes

1:08:35the whole way across the pencil.

1:08:37And it feels like the inside is solid to a point.

1:08:43And the reason that this is important

1:08:46is that when you hold it, it is balanced.

1:08:48It's not too heavy on one end or the other.

1:08:51That can be killer to a pen.

1:08:54Right, if it's too heavy,

1:08:55'cause there's a lot of stuff, like a fountain pen,

1:08:57all of the, I'll say mechanism, just to make it easy,

1:09:01all of the stuff like is right at the bottom,

1:09:03right at the edge of the pen, right?

1:09:04You got the nib there, you have what's called the feed,

1:09:06which delivers the ink to the nib, the cartridge,

1:09:09and everything is right at the front of the pen,

1:09:12you'd say like close to the nib.

1:09:13So to make a great pen, in a lot of instances,

1:09:16There has to be some some weighting that goes on the at the back of it or you need to make it shorter

1:09:20So it's more balanced, but because the Apple Pen is pencil is so large

1:09:24Right. It's very large in size which further kind of

1:09:29Enforces why they went with pencil name rather than pen

1:09:34They've done good work in making sure that the entire thing is well balanced

1:09:39And when you hold it in your hand

1:09:40It is a substantial thing which is also important because that adds a level of this is a quality product

1:09:47But it also just kind of it helps you control the pencil when you're making fine movement

1:09:52This is a I mean this is kind of like, you know, and the reason I wanted to write this is

1:09:58The iPad Pro so people look at the iPad Pro and they're like that is the Federico Vittucci product

1:10:06Mm-hmm. Right? That is for you. The Apple Pencil is mine. This is my product.

1:10:12I'm flattered, Myke, but I agree. I agree. It's definitely your kind of accessory, you know, it's just for you.

1:10:20And it's so different to have you write instead of, you know, podcasts.

1:10:29And I keep saying this, you should do more of this, Myke. And now I want to say publicly,

1:10:35I feel like there are certain things that you're really good at writing about.

1:10:42Can you describe the process for you to write a review?

1:10:46How many drafts did you make?

1:10:48Did you go back and forth with a version of the review or another version?

1:10:53What's your writing process, Myke?

1:10:55Did you use the pencil to handwrite the review?

1:10:58So this is the thing, right, is that I'm not an amazing writer, but I'm not a bad one.

1:11:07I feel like I can do stuff.

1:11:10No one is criticising my ability to write when they're reading this piece, which makes

1:11:16me feel good, right?

1:11:17It's like, great, no one's saying, "Dude, what are you even doing?

1:11:20You don't even make any sense."

1:11:22And a lot of this comes from, you know, and many people that I know that write do this,

1:11:25like I shared it with some friends and they corrected some things and highlighted some

1:11:28things for me, which is part of everybody's process I think. Because a lot of my friends

1:11:33are writers and I see lots of drafts, right? Like, just on a daily basis things just come

1:11:37away like, "Hey, what do you think of this?" It is a normal thing, right? But for me, the

1:11:43process of writing is not something that I specifically enjoy in the same way that you

1:11:48do, or Stephen does, or Jason does, right? Like, that is not a thing that I really love

1:11:53to do unless I have a really good reason. So like when the Apple Pencil was coming

1:12:00to me I was like it might be fun to write about this so I just had it in my

1:12:03mind and then after I started using it for a couple of days I was like no I

1:12:07have to. Like this is the thing this is a thing I want to write about because I

1:12:12want to increase the amount of people that could see my opinion on this. So I'll

1:12:16talk about it on the show it's like this is the third show this week where I'm

1:12:20talking about the Apple Pencil right and you know I believe that there is benefit

1:12:25to listening to all of them because I purposely talk about different things in

1:12:28each show but like I can talk about this until the cows come home I talk about it

1:12:33forever but I want to make sure that a lot of people see it and from from what

1:12:37Brad has told me a lot of people have seen yeah I seen the link everywhere

1:12:41Myke good job which makes me feel good as well but like so to go back to my

1:12:45process the first thing for me is I have to have a really good reason to start

1:12:49writing because I just don't enjoy it Federico. With the podcast thing it's

1:12:55so easy I can just talk. I just talk and people just follow me as I'm

1:12:59talking but with writing you've got to have like a real real heavy structure

1:13:03right the structure has to be a lot more rigid you have to really think about it

1:13:07in a different way. Like right now I just stumbled over my words a little bit but

1:13:12that's totally fine like in the podcast people don't care about it they do in

1:13:16the writings. You have to be more considerate about it. It's just not my

1:13:19approach for getting my opinions and thoughts out there on a usual

1:13:22day-to-day basis. So I struggle with it a little bit and it takes me some

1:13:28time. So the only way that I ever really write is when I have something that

1:13:32pushes me so much that it takes away the slog of it because it's something I

1:13:36really want to do. And I wrote this piece over two sessions of maybe

1:13:44an hour or so each and then just making some corrections after sending it to a

1:13:51couple of people. So it was probably maybe like three hours, two, three hours

1:13:56work because I was so pumped up to do it that I really just kind of just went

1:14:02with it. Because you know how we were talking about this a couple of weeks ago

1:14:05about when you just have that hook and then once you get the hook it just flows

1:14:11out of you. It happened to me as well. I knew what I was writing, right? And it

1:14:16was a simple hook. It was just like, compare this thing to the pens you use

1:14:19every day. And once that hit me, I just went for it. And one of the big

1:14:24parts for me was when I was talking about the weight of the device and the

1:14:27fact that it rolls, right? Like Apple have tried to implement the weights to stop

1:14:32it from rolling, but if you drop the pencil or like from like a height or

1:14:36if you give it any kind of speed or momentum, people don't like it when I

1:14:40talk about momentum. It can actually, the weights inside of it propel it forward

1:14:46in a way that you don't want because as it rolls over and over and over again it

1:14:51speeds up because it's got weight in it. And I was comparing that to Mark Newsom

1:14:57who works for Apple now designed a pen for Mont Blanc and his Mont Blanc pen

1:15:01was a cylindrical pen but the cap had a clip on it. And it was just interesting

1:15:06to me to be like I really wish that they would have put a clip on this thing. But

1:15:10But that is like a little thing that only I know because I care.

1:15:15Did you know that Marc Newsome designed a Mont Blanc fountain pen?

1:15:18No.

1:15:19No, but I do.

1:15:20And I think that that's interesting because he works for Apple's design team.

1:15:24So I expect he had a hand in this.

1:15:26So he might be the reason why there's weights in this thing in the first place.

1:15:31They didn't want to put a clip on it, but he was like, "But this thing's going to roll

1:15:33off the desk."

1:15:34You never know, but I find that sort of stuff interesting.

1:15:36It's like I found my hook and I started the writing process and I wrote the whole thing

1:15:40on my iPad Pro on the software keyboard in Byword, and I had the Notes app pinned to

1:15:45the side because I do have a lot of stuff now.

1:15:48When I get a new thing, whether it's a video game because we're talking about it on the

1:15:51show or I get a new app that I really like that is important or I get a new hardware

1:15:57device, I immediately open the Notes app, start a new heading, and just start taking

1:16:00notes.

1:16:01I talk about what I think about the hardware, what I think about software integration.

1:16:05I take little notes of interesting things that come up.

1:16:08I do that now, which is kind of cool.

1:16:09I think that's probably what a lot of people like yourself do as well. I mean I

1:16:12do that for the shows but it was the same for the pencil like I just have a

1:16:16notes document that just has a bunch of different tidbits and thoughts and I use

1:16:20that as a way to help structure the the review that I wrote. Is there anything

1:16:25that you feel you didn't say or maybe that you didn't say quite right in the

1:16:31review and if you could go back you would say differently or maybe explain

1:16:35more? I don't think that I focused enough or gave enough detail about the

1:16:42apps that I was using. So like you know I spoke about a couple of

1:16:47different apps that I'd used like Notability and GoodNotes and there are

1:16:52some more out there like for actual handwriting like OneNote for example

1:16:56which I didn't really test and that was just a matter of timing. I wanted to get

1:17:01this thing out as soon as possible because you know the products been

1:17:05out for a couple of weeks now, so the timing is getting older and older for this review

1:17:10to be relevant.

1:17:11Yeah, it happens to me as well, when you have an idea or maybe a specific angle on a story

1:17:19and you feel like "I need to get this out as soon as possible because other people maybe

1:17:23are gonna do the same".

1:17:24And there's an argument to be made about if you're unique enough, if you are differentiated

1:17:30enough, maybe people are still gonna care about you, but if you want to put an

1:17:35article in front of as many people as possible, having it be unique and new

1:17:40you know, helps a lot. And I've seen, you know, a lot of people refer to your

1:17:44review as "the pen guy uses the pencil" and that's a unique angle that's

1:17:50that's like, you know, it catches the attention, you know, it's got a specific

1:17:55twist to it and you were definitely right in saying "I want to get this out

1:18:00as soon as possible so maybe I will skip some sections for the greater good basically.

1:18:06There's nothing to say that at some point, I mean I don't have a specific desire to do

1:18:11this right now, but I might follow up with more thoughts about the note taking apps.

1:18:19As more come on the market and more get updated to support the Pencil, because that's something

1:18:24that I'm going to keep playing with, so potentially in the future I might look at that again.

1:18:28But yeah, that's the one thing is I wished I kind of spent more time with third-party stuff.

1:18:33I spoke a lot about the sketching tools in the Notes app because they are the best right now.

1:18:37But it's not the best app for handwriting. Like for example, OneNote does OCR of what you write

1:18:43into it. Right? And so I think that into the future that's going to be amazing. But right now,

1:18:48they don't have any specific support for the pencil. Right? They just don't have that.

1:18:56OneNote? I think they do actually.

1:19:00No, in the app. I'm gonna open it right now.

1:19:04Word does, but this doesn't.

1:19:08So you can click on Draw.

1:19:12What's the difference?

1:19:13Well, so you click on Draw and you click Stylus and you have two options.

1:19:17Pencil by 53 or Other.

1:19:21And then it's like, how do you hold a pen?

1:19:23like they're trying to do their own palm rejection stuff. So it works but it's not complete I don't think.

1:19:34And it's different in Word?

1:19:36I haven't used Word for it in all honesty.

1:19:40Who does?

1:19:42Apparently a lot of people do.

1:19:45It seems to me right now that they are not using all of the tools that are available.

1:19:54I see. I've been playing with OneNote, you know.

1:19:59For features like the shared notebooks, there's still...

1:20:03The stuff that I keep in Evernote, OCR, I'm not sure I can do that in Notes.

1:20:09Do you know if you can do OCR in Notes? I don't think you can.

1:20:12in the Notes app? Yeah. No. I think if you send, maybe, I think I remember from my

1:20:18review, if you send a PDF that's already been OCR'd, you can search for the

1:20:26text inside the PDF, but definitely you cannot do that for images or handwriting,

1:20:32I think. Yeah, maybe. I could be wrong about the PDFs, by the way. That's just

1:20:39what I remember. So I'm also playing around with OneNote. It's a pretty

1:20:42cool app. It's got quite a few differences from Evernote, but it's cool.

1:20:46One of the things for me about OneNote is though it doesn't look like an iPad app.

1:20:51Yeah, it looks like a PC app. The ribbon toolbar at the top,

1:20:57it's very Microsoft-y. So I wanted to ask you to conclude this.

1:21:04Microsoft say on their blog that they do support the Apple Pencil with OneNote,

1:21:10but I don't know it feels a little bit weird to me maybe I need to try it out

1:21:16more maybe I've just not given it a good enough shake maybe it's one of those

1:21:19early support and there's going to be more features that's kind of how it

1:21:23feels so I mean I don't know I haven't given it a fair shake and I probably

1:21:29should and I definitely will but it's just one that I haven't gotten around to

1:21:33just yet because I don't know like I open one though and I'm like you just

1:21:37look weird to me. Like, the app just looks kind of weird. It's like, "Hello, Microsoft!"

1:21:43I don't know, it just looks like a PC app in an iPad.

1:21:46Yeah, that's also what I feel like. I wanted to ask you, Myke, I assume you're going to

1:21:54be continuing to use the Pencil on a daily basis now.

1:21:57Yeah.

1:21:58So how do you use it, like, in practice? What do you do?

1:22:02So I have been taking notes on it, I like to do some doodles here and there, but one

1:22:07of the other things is when I'm using my iPad now for like sitting down and doing some work

1:22:12on it, I have the pencil in my hand and I use it to navigate iOS.

1:22:17Really?

1:22:19Yeah.

1:22:20Like every day?

1:22:21Yeah.

1:22:22So you're using the iPad with a stylus?

1:22:26It's a pen tablet.

1:22:27It's a pen tablet.

1:22:28It works really well.

1:22:30And you're happy with it?

1:22:31I love it.

1:22:32So I will preface by saying that for my Mac I use a Wacom now.

1:22:38So I use pen input on my Mac.

1:22:40Yeah, I know, for the RSI stuff.

1:22:43Yeah.

1:22:44And also now I actually really like it.

1:22:47But the precision that the Pencil gives in all applications is very beneficial.

1:22:53Text selection is far superior with the Pencil than trying to do it with my finger.

1:22:58I get the cursor where I want it to be, rather than like hitting it and then having to press

1:23:03and hold and then drag it again.

1:23:06And dragging the little blue bar thingamajigs is way easier with a pencil.

1:23:12But more than that, I like scrolling lists with it.

1:23:16I like just hitting small interface UI things with it.

1:23:20It just works for me, man.

1:23:22as a way to use this device it feels kind of natural to me. It's so big that

1:23:30like having this like pointing device kind of it works like this is why stylus

1:23:36exists styluses exist on these big devices in the first place like it's

1:23:40just beneficial to have this other little thing that interacts with the with

1:23:45the UI. I don't know, I really like it but I may be in a minority here but for

1:23:53me it just really works as a way to interact with the device. I'm sure

1:23:58that you do not do that.

1:24:00No, no Myke. Do you feel like you could, you would like to be able to

1:24:05attach the pencil magnetically to the iPad like as a

1:24:12permanent placement for the stylus? No, magnetics is a bad permanent

1:24:18placement because magnets fall off really easily, right? Like, you know,

1:24:24if something is magnetically attached and I put it in my bag and the

1:24:28pencil just snags on the edge of my bag the pencil gone forever, right? I want a case

1:24:33that I can just slip it into. You want an iPad case with a pencil

1:24:37holder. Yeah. Someone has to be making this much. Well I mean it would be very easy to

1:24:43do. Like so for example say a smart case you know how you kind of fold the smart case up

1:24:49and under? Yeah. Like one of those panels could have just a little slip thing that you

1:24:53pop it into. Yeah, yeah I guess. You know on the outside so like say the middle panel

1:24:58or whatever could have a little hole and you just slide the pencil into it because it would

1:25:01never get in the way. Imagine a case that's also a keyboard and it's got a case

1:25:07for the pencil. That would be killer. I mean people are making this stuff and I'm gonna

1:25:13keep my eye out for it. But you know this is just a product that just makes sense to

1:25:19me. These two things together, the iPad Pro and the pencil just make sense. It's such

1:25:24a big device that it feels like I can manipulate it in different ways and use it in different

1:25:29ways. Like for example we wanted to make a couple of changes to our website and we were

1:25:34trying to explain to our designer and developer the way that we wanted it to

1:25:38be done and we couldn't really explain it over the web so I took a screenshot

1:25:43of the page, open paper by 53 and just drew on the page what I wanted to be

1:25:48done. Yeah yeah that's very nice. Like that to me is like that is a device I

1:25:52want to use and I wouldn't have been able to do that as easily with my finger.

1:25:56Like I was able to draw little boxes right in the boxes what I wanted to be

1:25:59in there and I sent it to them and everybody knew what I liked. Yeah that's

1:26:04really nice. But that that type of stuff really works for me and it makes this it

1:26:10makes the iPad Pro for me more pro. Like a keyboard does for somebody like you

1:26:16and Jason, the pencil does for me. Because it just matches the way that I like to work.

1:26:22One thing that I tried out Federico that I thought was pretty interesting was I

1:26:26I downloaded SwiftKey and I was using their swipe keyboard.

1:26:31So I had the pencil in my hand and I was just,

1:26:35'cause if I'm holding the pencil like I was doing something

1:26:39I was writing, I was drawing, I was taking some notes,

1:26:42and I got a text message, and the pencil's already

1:26:44in my hand, so I found myself doing this,

1:26:45just tapping out a quick reply.

1:26:47Just tap out, send.

1:26:50And I thought SwiftKey would be way easier for this

1:26:52'cause you just swipe it out like you're drawing,

1:26:53and it was fantastic.

1:26:55But the problem is, then I have a third party keyboard on iOS which is hell.

1:26:59Which is just hell.

1:27:00Terrible.

1:27:01So it's like, I would really like to be able to do this, Apple.

1:27:04You just need to get your stuff together about this one as well.

1:27:08They should have like a feature that

1:27:10when you're using the pencil and you get a text field,

1:27:13instead of showing the keyboard, they show you like a little text area and you can

1:27:17handwrite and it becomes text.

1:27:19Yeah, I would like that.

1:27:22I'm telling you man, this makes sense to me.

1:27:25This year I have been upset with a lot of things that Apple have done.

1:27:30They've had some really good stuff but they've had some real

1:27:37misses in places. Some of their 1.0 stuff has been pretty shaky.

1:27:43Like we had a lot of bad stuff to say about the Apple TV for example.

1:27:46Yeah. The watch.

1:27:47The watch, yeah. The watch had a bunch of things that were kind of weird.

1:27:52This product to me is the best, it is the best singular 1.0 product that Apple have released this year.

1:27:58It's fantastic. And the things that we thought were weird about it really make sense. Like the

1:28:05way that you primarily charge this thing is super weird. It is awkward, you have this pencil sticking

1:28:11out, it doesn't sit flush with the iPad connect like when you connect it. But when you're using

1:28:17this device, that 15 second charge, 30 minutes of use, is genius.

1:28:22Exactly, but let me ask you this, because I saw this comment. So in theory it looks weird, right?

1:28:28But what would have been a better solution?

1:28:30There isn't one. This is the best solution. This is genius. Because you're using the thing and it's like,

1:28:37"Oh no, the battery's dying. Let me just plug it in for 15 seconds."

1:28:41Yeah, exactly.

1:28:42That is not an issue and then if you want to charge it for longer you have a

1:28:46Specific reason you want to charge it to full like you could do a couple of things like I've done

1:28:52I was watching a movie. I was gonna watch a video on my iPad

1:28:55So I was like, oh so the iPads gonna be doing nothing for a bit the pencils

1:28:59We've do nothing for a bit. Let me plug it in for half an hour and then it's like 80% battery

1:29:03So that's great because I'm not touching it. Anyway, I mean, yeah, it's not elegant, but it's just doing its thing

1:29:08But if I needed to I've got an adapter in the box. I can just plug it in with the adapter like

1:29:12is inelegant

1:29:15But it is I prefer this to having to plug a lightning port into this every time like a lightning

1:29:21Connector into this every time I want to charge like if it had a female connector and I had to plug it in

1:29:26Yeah, that would be frustrating to me if I had to do that every time

1:29:29It may be inelegant, but it's practical and it works anywhere. So it's a trade-off, but it is a practical one

1:29:37It is a crazy sensible way of charging this thing. It makes sense to me as a thing to do.

1:29:45Because when pens run out of ink you have to fill them. And filling a fountain pen is messy.

1:29:51And it is a to do. You know you have to get the bottle of ink, you have to get some tissue paper to dry up.

1:29:57You know, and to blot out. You need some blotting paper so you can get the ink flowing again.

1:30:03When you want to sharpen a pencil, like a real pencil, you have to make a mess.

1:30:07and you're sticking this thing into a thing and you're sharpening it with a blade.

1:30:10The parallel of this makes perfect sense to me. It is inelegant when you need to refill

1:30:16this thing, but it's a short action and then you get back to work again.

1:30:20So my girlfriend asked me an interesting question the other day. If Apple were to improve the pencil,

1:30:29to improve the overall experience of using the pencil, new features, new something,

1:30:36What do they need to do? Do they need to improve the Pencil? Do they need to improve iOS?

1:30:41Do they need to change the iPad? And I didn't really have a single answer to that.

1:30:46You are the pen guy. What do you think could be improved and how could be improved?

1:30:52So I would like to see a way to store it.

1:30:56Because I am going to lose this. It is inevitable.

1:31:01And it's an expensive thing to lose. It's $100 to replace it.

1:31:06Right? Yeah. A couple of things I would like to see. The cap on the end that covers the lightning

1:31:11port is just dying to be lost. So I would like to see a retractable mechanism like a mechanical

1:31:18pencil. So for example there could be a button on the side of this thing and you press it and the

1:31:23lightning port pops out the top and there could be like a little trapdoor mechanism that keeps it

1:31:28hidden and keeps dust out of it. This exists on some pens. I would recommend that people if they

1:31:33wanted to take a look at what I'm imagining here. I'm going to put two pen links in the show notes,

1:31:38one is called the vanishing point and one is called the Lami dialogue 3. So I'm going to put

1:31:47two links in there. These are fountain pens that have mechanisms for retracting the nib and they

1:31:53both deal with this in interesting ways. I would like to see something like that for the lightning

1:31:57port so it is retracted in the pencil you press a button and it pops out so then you're not going

1:32:01gonna lose that little cap because that's gonna be super frustrating when I

1:32:04eventually lose that. I would like to see a clip on this or a flat edge so it

1:32:10doesn't roll away by design rather than just by you know we've designed this

1:32:15thing and then put weights in it. Like that was the way that they fixed the

1:32:18problem rather than in my opinion rather than designing it from ground up that

1:32:23way. They wanted a cylindrical thing which is very beautiful but I would like

1:32:27to see a clip on this or just something that stops it from rolling away. I think

1:32:34for some people this it's not very grippy. I think it's fine but it would

1:32:39maybe be nice if an apple could do this elegantly to have a rubberized grip or

1:32:46they could make this thing out of aluminium and they could have it knurled.

1:32:50And if you don't know what knurling is I'm gonna put a link in the show notes

1:32:55to a pen that Apple sell in their retail stores. So they worked with a company

1:33:02called Retro 51, one of my favorite pen making companies, to have something

1:33:08called the Hexamatic, which is a pen and pencil, and it has this grip on it which

1:33:13is in aluminium which is called knurling. And it's like this, they basically put

1:33:18like this grid in the aluminium which gives it a grip. And I would really love

1:33:22to see an aluminium version of the pencil. So that's kind of my what I

1:33:27wish for 2.0 but none of those things are desperately needed.

1:33:32And all of those things are about hardware not software.

1:33:36Which is interesting.

1:33:37Oh the software is perfect.

1:33:38Alright so what would I want? You want the obvious. I want this thing to be even more responsive.

1:33:44Because it's not 100% one-to-one.

1:33:47No, not yet.

1:33:49But it will be.

1:33:51we have to assume that it'll be eventually.

1:33:55But that requires Apple to increase the refresh rate of the iPad Pro's display again.

1:34:02So going from 240 FPS to 480 maybe, that's crazy.

1:34:11But that requires a major change, basically another display technology.

1:34:18Which I don't think could happen next year, I don't know.

1:34:22No, I think we're a way away. I think what will happen is it will get incrementally better over time.

1:34:28Uh-huh, yeah.

1:34:30That's my feeling about this.

1:34:32But you feel that the changes that you want to see in software besides accuracy and speed,

1:34:41you feel like Apple for this 1.0 kind of nailed the experience?

1:34:46They did a good enough job.

1:34:48Mm-hmm.

1:34:50Again, it is not perfect. I am still ahead of it.

1:34:55Right? Like when I'm writing fast, I am ahead.

1:34:58It is not completely keeping up with me.

1:35:01But it is not so far wrong that it's a problem.

1:35:06Does that make sense?

1:35:07Yeah, totally. Yeah.

1:35:09So, yeah, I am thrilled with this thing.

1:35:13Nice. That's what I wanted to... I was really looking forward to your perspective, Myke.

1:35:19And I feel like I want to see more from you on this going forward, you know?

1:35:24Like, using the pencil as a pen. I assume there's going to be a whole new category of apps coming.

1:35:29I hope so.

1:35:30Yeah, I mean, it makes sense, right? People have done this for other Stylie on the iPad before,

1:35:40now it makes sense to have special pencil features and apps coming now that it's built into the iPad.

1:35:47One final question that I have for you.

1:35:51If Apple were to make the pencil available on the iPad Air 3 next year, would you go back?

1:35:59No, I love the iPad Pro. I love the format.

1:36:04I had already decided I wanted to stick with the iPad Pro before I got the pencil.

1:36:09And I feel like for this to be really useful, it needs to have a big screen so I have space to write out in full.

1:36:18I don't know, let me pick up my iPad Air here and just see what it feels like.

1:36:23It's gonna be fun.

1:36:25I feel like I haven't got enough space to rest my hand and rest on it at the same time.

1:36:31True.

1:36:32Like, I'm resting my hand on it and I'm like halfway into the screen where on the iPad Pro

1:36:37there's more space for me to like rest my hand and write with this thing.

1:36:40And it's more comfortable in that way. But the iPad Air feels ridiculous to me now.

1:36:46Yeah, I know. I know what you mean.

1:36:49I love this thing man. I've got to say, this is my... The iPad Pro and the Pencil is my favorite

1:36:55Apple device of the year, even including my incredible iMac that I love dearly.

1:37:00but the iPad Pro is something that I really love and the pencil just tops it off.

1:37:03They're a fantastic pairing and I'm excited to see where this technology goes and I really hope

1:37:10that Apple continue to advance their efforts in this realm. Very nice. Now it wraps up this week,

1:37:17Federico. Yeah, yeah. Good job, Myke. You got to talk about workflows and I got to talk about pens.

1:37:22How fantastic. Just perfect. Thank you, Michael. If you want to catch our show notes, which we've

1:37:28got some of the apps that we've been using as well as some of the pen options. If you

1:37:32didn't know what I meant about some of this stuff, go take a look at some of those pens

1:37:36and the pencils. I hope that it will kind of inform what I would like to see from this

1:37:39device. If you want to find those show notes, they're at relay.fm/connecting/67 or in your

1:37:45podcast app of choice. If you want to find us online, you can head on over to macstories.net

1:37:50to find Federico's work and he is @Vittucci on Twitter. I am @imike, I-M-Y-K-E. And if

1:37:55If you want to see Steven's work, if you miss him because he's not here this week, go to

1:37:59512pixels.net and he is @ismh on Twitter.

1:38:02We won't actually all be together again next week.

1:38:05I'm gonna be away.

1:38:06Yeah, you're always going around Myke.

1:38:09I know, we're a fast moving bunch.

1:38:13Yes we are.

1:38:14So I will be back in a couple of weeks time, but enjoy the show as always next week.

1:38:18Federico and Steven I'm sure will knock it out of the park.

1:38:21I love listening to this show when I'm not on it.

1:38:24We make a good podcast Federico, did you know that?

1:38:27I believe we do, Myke.

1:38:30Some have been known to say that it's the world's greatest.

1:38:33We'll be back next time.

1:38:35Thanks so much to our sponsors this week, Squarespace, Fracture and Braintree.

1:38:39Until then, say goodbye Federico.