63: The App Is Named App


00:00:00   [Intro]

00:00:06   From Relayer Fam, this is Connected, episode number 63.

00:00:12   Today's show is brought to you by our friends over at igloo, an internet you'll actually

00:00:15   like, Warby Parker, because glasses should not cost as much as an iPhone, and Braintree,

00:00:21   code for easy online payments.

00:00:23   My name is Myke Hurley and I am joined by Mr Federico Vittucci.

00:00:27   Hello Myke.

00:00:28   How are you Federico?

00:00:29   I'm doing great. How are you with the cold medicines? I saw the picture on Twitter.

00:00:34   I hope I'm going to be okay. So yesterday I was doing the pen addict, and if I spoke

00:00:37   for more than 20 seconds, I nearly ran out of oxygen. So I'm hoping today that won't

00:00:42   be the case. And Mr. Steven Hackett, hello sir, how are you?

00:00:46   I'm good, Myke. I'm glad that you're with us today.

00:00:49   So we were together last week. Do you think you might come down with this plague that

00:00:53   I have?

00:00:54   I'm about 36 hours behind you.

00:00:56   I felt bad last night, I feel worse today.

00:00:59   So we'll see.

00:01:00   - Look forward to that.

00:01:02   That's cough medicine.

00:01:05   - Oh.

00:01:06   - Are you just taking a swig of it?

00:01:07   - No, I was shaking the box.

00:01:10   - Just keeping a glass of medicine next to you as you speak.

00:01:13   - Well, I took it about 10 minutes before we started.

00:01:15   It is non-drowsy, which is good.

00:01:17   I made sure to ensure that I wasn't gonna get drowsy

00:01:20   medicine 'cause then I might just fall asleep

00:01:22   on the show and that doesn't seem like it would be a very good thing to do.

00:01:26   I've made that mistake before, taking drowsy accidentally and it will ruin your plans for

00:01:32   the day.

00:01:35   One of the changes that I noticed in my lifestyle after I went through treatments and all that

00:01:41   kind of stuff, basically I don't care about medicines anymore.

00:01:46   Before I used to be extremely careful in taking medicines, you know, "Oh, maybe I should avoid

00:01:51   taking this you know cold medicine maybe I should you know it's bad for the

00:01:54   stomach now I just don't care as soon as I see the symptoms I'm like okay I'm

00:01:59   gonna take everything because I took far worse and what's a cold medicine gonna do to me I

00:02:04   mean my stomach it's you know I wouldn't say it's gone but you know it's gone

00:02:09   through a lot of stuff so whatever as soon as I see the symptoms are like nope

00:02:13   I'm gonna take everything that's in my in my emergency closet I'm just gonna

00:02:18   take the pills, I'm gonna take everything, I don't care. And it works, you know? I haven't

00:02:23   had one of those high fevers in a long time, but I don't recommend this kind of solution.

00:02:30   I think this is the first time that I've been concerned about losing my voice

00:02:35   in the last few years, which is making me think that I should look into vocal exercises.

00:02:42   You gotta put an insurance on your throat, Myke.

00:02:46   But I had once considered that, but that seems a bit too diva-ish, you know?

00:02:49   It's like a football player ensuring his leg or something.

00:02:52   I'm not going to do that.

00:02:53   Yes.

00:02:54   And it was just even we were at Release Notes, and whilst at Release Notes, you received an

00:02:57   incredible gift.

00:02:59   I did.

00:03:00   So our friend Greg, who runs the Agile Tortoise software shop, you know Greg from apps like

00:03:06   Drafts, gave me a Newton 120.

00:03:10   So he found me in the hallway and was like, "Hey, I have something for you.

00:03:14   Make sure you get it from me."

00:03:15   then you have a picture of us. Greg's a very big man. I'm a I'm a you know, I'm six feet

00:03:21   tall but Greg is enormous. So I look like a child next to him. Holding holding my new

00:03:27   Newton message pad 120. So Newton has entered my collection now for the first time in a

00:03:34   long time.

00:03:36   So are you gonna be working from the Newton Steven?

00:03:39   So I had a Newton 2000 in college and I did use it in class.

00:03:47   I had a little case and the keyboard and it was like you and your fancy iPad Pro just

00:03:55   from the past.

00:03:56   But yeah, I used it in school for notes.

00:03:58   I had it syncing with my, I guess my PowerBook G4 at the time and so I had my contacts and

00:04:06   calendars on it.

00:04:07   I had email on it.

00:04:08   I got a .Mac email working on it,

00:04:12   and it was on the school wireless,

00:04:14   and it was pretty awesome.

00:04:15   But then I needed some cash to pay off

00:04:18   my wife's engagement ring, so I sold it,

00:04:19   and I've not had one since.

00:04:21   So Greg has reignited my love of the Newton,

00:04:26   and we'll see where that leads me.

00:04:30   But my thanks to Greg and everyone.

00:04:33   People were coming up to me,

00:04:35   like wanting to see it and stuff.

00:04:38   And this came up because last week I finally got around to posting my collection.

00:04:45   So there's a link in the show notes to a GitHub page where I keep an inventory of my collection

00:04:50   and the Newton has been added to that list as of the other night.

00:04:54   So my thanks to Greg for edging me on in my collection, collecting of things.

00:05:02   What are you going to do with all this stuff?

00:05:05   More importantly, Steven, at which point do you become a hoarder of stuff?

00:05:13   I think it's past that point now.

00:05:16   I think hoarding, I think the difference between collecting and hoarding, and please email

00:05:21   anyone but me about this, what I'm being ready to say, send Casey Liss all of my email, I

00:05:29   - I am, there is a level of discrimination

00:05:34   about what goes into the collection.

00:05:38   So like someone at least was like,

00:05:39   "Hey, I've got this whole PowerBook."

00:05:40   And I was like, "Well, it's not like,

00:05:42   "I'm not really looking for that."

00:05:43   Like there are certain things that I would like to have

00:05:45   based on importance to me or importance historically.

00:05:49   So, you know, like there's a lot of like performers

00:05:51   that no one cares about, I don't care about.

00:05:53   I'm not interested in owning any of them.

00:05:55   I think a hoarder would be like,

00:05:56   "Yes, bring all of the Beige Max to me."

00:05:59   But I am trying to build something that is

00:06:01   an interesting look at Apple's history

00:06:05   and the history of personal computing,

00:06:06   not any random thing I can get my hand on.

00:06:10   Now there are things in this list

00:06:12   that don't really meet either of those,

00:06:14   that I have maybe just 'cause I like them,

00:06:17   but I'm not just scooping up anything that comes my way.

00:06:20   I'm trying to be deliberate about what I add.

00:06:25   So as far as what I'm going to do with them,

00:06:27   Can't answer that question yet Myke because I don't know

00:06:30   Stephen Hackett the first and foremost apple cuter in Memphis, Tennessee

00:06:35   It's true. Definitely the biggest here. I would imagine I know a lot of people who collect Apple stuff and I mean there's

00:06:44   I'm towards the head of that list at this point. I think I mean there people with more rare stuff than me, but um

00:06:50   You know not too many people do this. So what can you say?

00:06:55   What else did you get you got something else didn't you?

00:06:58   Just goes on and on I

00:07:03   Also added an iPod hi-fi

00:07:05   Do you remember the iPod hi-fi I was probably too young to remember no

00:07:12   Put a wicked we'll put a Wikipedia link in the show notes. This is like a jam box

00:07:17   Do you know remember this Federica? No, not at all

00:07:20   This was the thing where Steve Jobs got on stage and said that he was replacing all of his audio file equipment

00:07:26   And it came out it came at an event with socks and leather cases for the iPod

00:07:33   That's right. Very expensive leather cases. Uh-huh like $90 or something

00:07:38   It's like Evernote they were selling socks and leather stuff. This was like the Evernote announcement equivalent I think

00:07:47   Because the main thing of the main thing of the announcement was the iPod hi-fi like they set up these rooms

00:07:53   So they in the demo area they set up like a student's bedroom and stuff like that like so you could see them in the natural

00:08:00   Habitat it's crazy

00:08:02   So yeah, so it's uh

00:08:06   It was designed to use the iPod with a 30-pin dock connector

00:08:10   but it used the FireWire power source.

00:08:14   And they basically released this,

00:08:15   and then like six months later they revved the iPod

00:08:18   and ditched the FireWire charging,

00:08:20   so newer iPods wouldn't charge on it.

00:08:22   But it has an AUX in on it.

00:08:24   And Jason Snell has one of these on his desk as well.

00:08:27   And it still sounds really good.

00:08:30   I've got it hooked up at home.

00:08:31   I need to rearrange my desk if I'm gonna keep it there.

00:08:33   But it's a really nice,

00:08:37   like it's a nice sounding speaker.

00:08:38   It looks good.

00:08:39   It is shockingly heavy, especially if you put batteries in it.

00:08:42   You could put like six, I think it's six,

00:08:44   like C or D size batteries in it

00:08:46   and like use it out in the yard or whatever.

00:08:48   But it has entered the fold as well and it's nice.

00:08:53   I want to use it, I gotta find a place for it

00:08:55   if it's not my desk somewhere in the house

00:08:57   to listen to music on it,

00:08:58   'cause it really does sound good for its age

00:09:01   and what I paid for it.

00:09:02   - I love that you can put batteries in it

00:09:04   like walking around with it like a boombox.

00:09:06   You could walk around the streets of Memphis

00:09:07   with this on your shoulder.

00:09:08   Yeah, I do have I think at least one iPod that it will work with so I could definitely

00:09:13   just...

00:09:14   Of course you do.

00:09:15   I could just replace the sound system in my car with this and just have it like strapped

00:09:21   in in the passenger seat.

00:09:22   You could take it down to like the strip mall and do break dancing or something in front

00:09:25   of the Apple store.

00:09:27   I think they would really like that.

00:09:29   Yeah, it's like look at this guys, iPod Hi-Fi.

00:09:32   It seems like something Federico could own.

00:09:35   I'm just looking at the picture and I'm amazed by this idea of a...

00:09:40   It was an Apple accessory, right?

00:09:42   It's like a thing made by Apple.

00:09:44   It's not like a third party collaboration or something.

00:09:46   It's just made by Apple.

00:09:47   Right, they built it.

00:09:48   Yeah, and the keynote, which I haven't seen in a long time, but I think he goes into detail

00:09:52   about how they crafted the speaker chambers and the type of resin they used to seal it,

00:09:59   and all sorts of crazy stuff.

00:10:01   I guess I heard about this name, I just never paid attention.

00:10:08   I thought it was a version of the iPod, not necessarily like a speaker.

00:10:15   So nice, nice, I had no idea Steven.

00:10:17   I'm glad I could help educate you.

00:10:20   Yeah, sure.

00:10:22   How are you, Steven, how are you feeling about your keyboards?

00:10:25   Are you still using it?

00:10:26   Because I received one, right?

00:10:27   I've got my new iMac here.

00:10:29   Right.

00:10:30   And I do not like it.

00:10:31   I really, really don't like it.

00:10:33   - I do like it.

00:10:35   I'm liking it more and more.

00:10:36   I reviewed it like four, after four or five days,

00:10:39   but I'm still enjoying it.

00:10:42   Of course, at release notes,

00:10:43   just had my MacBook Pro and the keyboard on that machine

00:10:46   is more like the old Bluetooth keyboard

00:10:48   than the new Magic keyboard.

00:10:49   And I was typing on the MacBook Pro,

00:10:52   and I was like, I wish this was a little firmer.

00:10:53   So it's already sort of taken over in my brain

00:10:56   that this is the way Apple's keyboard should be

00:10:58   and not what's on my laptop.

00:11:00   But I'm really still, I'm still real happy with it.

00:11:02   So the only thing I still am just struggling with

00:11:06   is the arrow keys being different,

00:11:07   'cause that's really done by feel for me.

00:11:09   And I still kinda, if I'm like navigating

00:11:12   around a spreadsheet or something,

00:11:13   I will still kinda take a second to remember

00:11:15   that the keys are split differently, the arrow keys.

00:11:17   But besides that, I'm still got both thumbs up

00:11:22   for this thing.

00:11:23   - When I was, I've used it a little bit,

00:11:26   and it just feels like, I really feel the lack of travel

00:11:30   the keys and I don't like it. I'm just not a big fan of it. Like it feels to me

00:11:35   like every other keyboard I have feels superior because of that. And I don't

00:11:39   know if that's just something that it's like it's built into my brain but I'm

00:11:41   just not I'm just not on board of it. Yeah and you've been using the

00:11:45   Microsoft sculpt for a while too so you're yeah you know I think if you were

00:11:49   coming from the Bluetooth keyboard to this it might be a little bit different

00:11:53   but the sculpt is so different then I could definitely see how you would feel

00:11:57   that way yeah you used it for a minute I was like nope yeah just bailed on it yeah

00:12:01   so it's probably something to do with the sculpt yeah how is the iMac I love

00:12:07   it I need and I definitely need more time with it like to really understand

00:12:12   the speed of it and stuff but it's a monster and it's my monster and I'm very

00:12:17   very happy with it so yeah I I'm I'm enjoying it a lot I love the screen it's

00:12:26   super powerful it's it's just everything I wanted and I'm looking at this old Mac

00:12:31   Pro and I'm like see you later buddy it's nice having you. And are you using

00:12:36   either the the mouse or trackpad with it? I'm not really I mean I have the magic

00:12:42   trackpad on the desk but it's nothing to do with the devices I'm just battling a

00:12:46   bunch of RSI problems at the moment so I'm kind of switching it up a lot and

00:12:51   I'm using the Wacom tablet basically constantly for all of my navigation

00:12:55   right now because my right hand is the problem.

00:12:57   I'm left handed so I can use the pen tablet

00:12:59   in my left hand.

00:13:01   And I've used the track pad a little bit

00:13:03   and I like that but I'm trying to think

00:13:07   of how I can go back to a mouse

00:13:09   but I'm still working on that.

00:13:11   - Yeah, but with that RSI stuff,

00:13:12   you gotta do what you gotta do.

00:13:14   We did wanna mention the home app

00:13:18   that Federico and I spoke about last week.

00:13:21   It was in the show notes but it was a late edition

00:13:23   so some people's podcast clients didn't find it.

00:13:27   So we're gonna put it in the show notes again this week.

00:13:30   Turns out naming an app home makes it difficult

00:13:32   to find in the app store.

00:13:33   But we've got a link to it and we'll make sure

00:13:36   that you can find that this week.

00:13:38   I've been playing with it Federico and I,

00:13:40   even though like we spoke about my home kit is set up

00:13:42   as simpler than yours, it's a nice app.

00:13:45   And I feel like it's sort of what,

00:13:47   almost what Apple should have shipped.

00:13:49   But it's a nice addition, I think,

00:13:53   if you're doing a lot of HomeKit stuff,

00:13:54   you should definitely check out this app.

00:13:56   It's worth the price, for sure.

00:13:59   - If I could follow up on last week's episode,

00:14:01   'cause obviously I listened to it,

00:14:03   HomeKit sounds like a bit of a disaster.

00:14:06   - Yep. (laughs)

00:14:07   - Well, 'cause this is the type of stuff that,

00:14:09   so when it works, it seems like it works great,

00:14:11   but this is stuff that you need to work 100% of the time.

00:14:15   If I'm gonna trust my iPhone to unlock my door,

00:14:19   needs to work. Or if I'm gonna trust my own phone to turn my lights on, like all of those things I

00:14:24   want to happen. I don't want them to be like "maybe they'll work sometimes" I'm not interested in that.

00:14:30   Well yeah you don't want to be stuck in the dark yelling commands at Siri to turn on your lights.

00:14:34   Exactly, like that's silly.

00:14:36   Guys I have some follow-up for you speaking of HomeKit and the Apple TV. And so you guys may

00:14:46   remember that I complained about the Apple TV not working for remote access for me.

00:14:52   And I got some feedback from some listeners telling me to reboot my Apple TV or to sign out

00:14:59   from my iCloud account and sign back in. I just didn't want to try that. I was really disappointed.

00:15:05   So the other day, two days ago, I was at a birthday party with some friends. And we were,

00:15:13   So my friends here in Rome, they usually, we go to this park, like after dinner at midnight,

00:15:21   and like we bring a cake, we bring some beers, some cocktails, and we drink in this park.

00:15:30   And it's a very, I realize it's a very teenager-y thing to do.

00:15:34   Yeah, you sound like a little teenage yob or something.

00:15:38   Yeah, it's basically that.

00:15:42   And you know, this is Sylvia's hip-hop group, so these guys, they bring a stereo, they put

00:15:49   on some music.

00:15:50   You should get an iPod Hi-Fi for them.

00:15:53   Yeah, for sure.

00:15:54   So we were there, we were celebrating, my friends, and some of my friends started drinking,

00:16:02   and one of them started drinking quite heavily, and at one point it was beyond the tipsy level

00:16:09   of drinking.

00:16:10   And we started talking about the Apple TV.

00:16:13   And I was okay, I wasn't drinking because I needed to drive.

00:16:20   So these guys started saying, "Yeah, what's the Apple TV?"

00:16:24   And I started explaining what the Apple TV is.

00:16:27   And basically I ended up selling my Apple TV to this drunk person.

00:16:33   I had this guy come over at my house at 2am and I gave him my Apple TV for like 50 euros

00:16:44   and because I just don't care, I'm like look, I bought this Apple TV last week, I

00:16:49   don't use it, I don't want to put it up on eBay because I don't have the time or

00:16:53   patience, I don't want to, I just don't need it, I'm going to buy the new one to

00:16:59   on my Apple TV and he was all excited by the... apparently he was really into the idea of

00:17:05   streaming YouTube videos to his TV with an Apple TV. So I wouldn't say that I took advantage

00:17:11   of this person because the following day he texted me back asking for instructions and

00:17:16   kind of like tips and tricks. So maybe, you know, in the moment he was kind of more excited

00:17:22   than normal to get an Apple TV but he stuck with the decision. So I'm no longer an owner

00:17:28   of an Apple TV third generation and I'm waiting for the next one.

00:17:32   I just thought you guys might like my story.

00:17:34   Well at least now I know the best way to get rid of my Mac Pro.

00:17:38   Oh yeah!

00:17:39   Just go to a park.

00:17:41   Yeah, that's all it takes.

00:17:44   Go to a park, get people to drink and start talking about your Apple accessories.

00:17:48   You're gonna find someone who is interested in one of those.

00:17:53   On that note, let's take our first break for this week's episode and we want to thank Brain

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00:19:40   So the Apple TV went for pre-order as we record this yesterday morning. Sort of, how do you

00:19:47   feel about this, it sort of just happened, right?

00:19:49   Like I was just kinda on Twitter in a waiting room

00:19:52   and all of a sudden people were like,

00:19:53   "Oh, the Apple TV's for sale now."

00:19:55   Like there was no, Apple didn't pre-announce a time.

00:19:58   Like there were people on Twitter like,

00:19:59   "What time is it gonna be?"

00:20:00   They were just like, "It's here and you can order it."

00:20:03   And so I did and I believe that Federico, you did as well.

00:20:08   What about you, Myke?

00:20:09   'Cause you and I were going back and forth on this, right?

00:20:14   - I didn't want one.

00:20:15   I don't want one, right?

00:20:17   Like I don't want one at all.

00:20:19   But...

00:20:19   I understand you, Myke.

00:20:21   Very much.

00:20:22   But...

00:20:22   I feel like I just had to get one.

00:20:24   Because otherwise I'm just gonna be the person on the show going like

00:20:28   "I don't know, what does Apple TV do?"

00:20:31   So like I spent the money on one because I felt like I needed one

00:20:35   so I could sound smart, like a smart person.

00:20:37   Rather than dumb, like a dumb person on the shows.

00:20:40   So...

00:20:41   I bought one.

00:20:42   And I still don't want one.

00:20:44   So the single reason why you bought one is peer pressure.

00:20:47   Yeah actually, that is correct because I heard people texting me

00:20:51   and stuff and saying "You should just get one! Come on, you should just get one, you need one!"

00:20:55   I really don't. Buy another accessory.

00:20:58   I got one, I'm not sure what I'm gonna do with it.

00:21:02   I guess I'm gonna play games on my Apple TV because

00:21:07   we don't watch American cable stuff of course in Italy.

00:21:12   We don't buy our movies and TV shows on iTunes.

00:21:15   There's gonna be apps, so maybe I will find

00:21:20   a use case for my Apple TV. I just don't imagine myself looking at my TV all day,

00:21:24   like actively using apps on my TV. I can see games,

00:21:29   so I guess we'll see what kind of games are gonna come out on the apps,

00:21:32   sorry for the Apple TV.

00:21:33   That's the only reason I can think of. I don't know how I'm

00:21:36   gonna use it, but like Myke, I bought one because

00:21:40   I didn't want to miss out on all the craziness.

00:21:44   And then it was like, "What one do you want to buy?"

00:21:50   And it's like 32 gigabytes or 64, right?

00:21:53   And it's like, I don't even know why I need one or the other.

00:21:59   It just doesn't make sense to me.

00:22:01   I don't even know why there's a storage size difference.

00:22:05   because there's no idea of knowing which one is the right one for me. Do you see what I mean?

00:22:11   I kept just looking at it and I'm like I don't know why I'd want 32 or 64 because I'm not going

00:22:16   to be putting any videos on it I would assume. Like it's all going to stream. Like how big are

00:22:19   the apps going to be? I don't know. What did you guys get? I went with 32 just because I didn't

00:22:23   want one anyway so I wasn't going to pay for the 64. Me too. I just got the base model. I'm like

00:22:31   what's the cheapest option for me so I can buy an Apple TV and forget about it

00:22:36   and I got the 32 gig model because I

00:22:39   again based on my only assumption that the way that I'm gonna use this is for

00:22:43   games

00:22:44   and knowing myself I play a game on iOS and when I'm done with the game I delete

00:22:49   the game I don't care about you know keeping the game installed

00:22:52   I guess that I you know 32 gigs will be okay

00:22:56   for me in terms of storage

00:22:59   What did you do, Steven?

00:23:01   - I opted for the bigger of the two.

00:23:03   - Oh.

00:23:04   - But like we've been talking about,

00:23:06   like Apple TV is television in our house,

00:23:09   and while I don't see us playing a ton of games,

00:23:11   I did not order a game controller,

00:23:13   which I wanna ask you guys in a second if you did.

00:23:15   I was like, you know what,

00:23:17   we plan on keeping this thing for a long time.

00:23:19   We've had our old Apple TV a long time,

00:23:21   and I don't want to run into issues,

00:23:24   especially if my, you know,

00:23:25   the kids are gonna be using it,

00:23:26   and all of a sudden it's like,

00:23:27   I need storage space, they're not gonna know what to do.

00:23:29   And it wasn't that much more, so I decided to just go ahead

00:23:33   and opt for the bigger of the two.

00:23:36   You know, it's not like, to your point, guys,

00:23:39   about the streaming bit.

00:23:40   It's not like it used to be where the first Apple TV

00:23:44   you sync stuff over, like it was basically an iPod

00:23:46   plugged into your television.

00:23:47   I mean, this thing is designed to stream,

00:23:49   and I really think the only thing it's gonna be storing

00:23:51   locally is game assets.

00:23:53   And of course they're doing, there's a link in the

00:23:55   owners to Polygon they're doing the app sizing and the slicing and stuff to pull

00:23:59   down assets on demand and imagine if you game a lot you'll use more of that disc

00:24:03   but my thought was it's not that much more and I don't want to have any issues

00:24:08   with it so I opted for the the bigger of the two sizes but I did not order a game

00:24:13   controller what about you guys did you even look at him no I looked at them

00:24:18   just because somebody tweeted to them and it was funny I clicked the page and

00:24:22   got a 404 but I just looked at it like not with any intention to buy one

00:24:28   because I'm kind of not I'm not that interested in it like because I want to

00:24:34   see how it how it goes right like I want to see if there are games that require

00:24:40   that like a good controller because in theory you know they're saying that

00:24:43   every app has to use the standard remote so you'd like to think that all games

00:24:50   will be okay to play irrespective of what controller you're using and you

00:24:57   know I want to see if there's any games that come out that are even worth a full

00:25:00   controller for because like if everything's like Crossy Road then it's

00:25:03   gonna be fine obviously it's well I'd like to think it's not gonna be like

00:25:08   that it seems that there are developers that are doing more stuff with it but I

00:25:11   want to see what kind of the offering is like before I decide to drop the money

00:25:16   on that because those things are nearly as expensive as the Apple TV itself.

00:25:20   Yeah, I mean right now there are only two controllers for selling Apple's website.

00:25:25   There's the SteelSeries Nimbus wireless gaming controller which is 50 bucks and then they

00:25:29   have a Guitar Hero guitar for $100.

00:25:32   So still less expensive than the $79 replacement Apple TV remote which is just insane to me.

00:25:41   But definitely pricey if you're, like you said,

00:25:45   if the remote is the common denominator,

00:25:48   then I can't agree with you.

00:25:51   I don't really see a world in which the gaming controller

00:25:54   offers a vastly better experience,

00:25:57   because Apple's put that limitation in place.

00:25:59   If that limitation wasn't there,

00:26:01   if they said, "Well, yeah, if you want to talk to games,

00:26:03   "we have game controllers,"

00:26:04   then I think developers would have more freedom

00:26:08   to sort of go crazy with it.

00:26:09   I just don't know I don't know it is interesting too that they're offering a

00:26:14   Wii style remote loop so if you are chucking it around you to chunk it into

00:26:19   your TV or into your spouse's head and that's $13 on Apple's website which is

00:26:24   you know 13 anyway I'm I'm interested maybe in the guitar hero controller yeah

00:26:33   right because I need to pick a platform for guitar hero if I want to play it in

00:26:36   Guitar Hero and it might be kind of cool on the Apple TV.

00:26:41   Yeah.

00:26:42   I'm really struggling, like I'm looking on the UK website and I cannot find where this

00:26:48   stuff goes.

00:26:49   Like where is the stuff?

00:26:50   Where are the controllers?

00:26:52   Nah.

00:26:53   I wish the store would come back.

00:26:55   There's one point that I want to make about the software aspect of the app slicing and

00:27:01   the on-demand resources.

00:27:03   So I was reading through, and I even linked to it, this Polygon article.

00:27:08   There's great explanation of how game developers will have to adjust to these new storage features

00:27:14   on the Apple TV.

00:27:16   And one question that keeps coming back to me is, so the majority of games on iOS are

00:27:23   the kind of arcade games where it's a bunch of levels and you either collect points or

00:27:29   stars and you proceed through these levels but you can always go back and redo a previous

00:27:36   stage if you want to get a higher score or collect all the stars and all the other collectible

00:27:41   items that kind of stuff.

00:27:44   And with these tvOS software features developers can tag specific assets or levels of a game

00:27:51   and say "ok now you need to download this and maybe this level is no longer a priority

00:27:56   so you can remove that from local storage and you can download some other things.

00:28:02   So what Apple is doing here to me, it seems that it makes sense for story driven games

00:28:08   where you proceed in the story and you no longer see a previous stage or area or characters

00:28:16   in the game.

00:28:17   So like something like an Uncharted game or something like an RPG where you go from like

00:28:25   Initial stages and areas and then you proceed through the story and you don't see those places anymore

00:28:31   So you can remove them from storage, but because the majority of iOS games

00:28:35   Something like I don't know Angry Birds or you know

00:28:38   I'm just thinking of all these other games where it's a bunch of worlds and levels and you can always go back

00:28:46   So what happens if like I'm playing a game on my Apple TV and I assume that at least for now the majority of Apple

00:28:53   TV games will be modeled after iOS games.

00:28:56   What happens if I wanna go back to world two

00:29:00   and I wanna play level 10,

00:29:03   and for some reason it's no longer available,

00:29:05   I need to sit back and wait for the level to download.

00:29:09   That's what makes me skeptical of developers

00:29:11   actually adopting these technologies.

00:29:14   Like, I don't know.

00:29:15   I'm just, I guess it makes sense for,

00:29:19   again, for games with a story where you don't see

00:29:23   initial stages or tutorials anymore, but for arcade games organised in levels and based

00:29:30   on high scores and points, I just struggle to see how it's going to work in practice.

00:29:36   I think the bigger issue, because I mean the level based games, you can assume that the

00:29:40   majority of people aren't going back and playing level, like, I mean, there will be people

00:29:47   that do it and when you do that you just have to wait, right? If you want to go back and

00:29:50   play world 2 level 10 you'll just have to wait for the you have to wait for it

00:29:55   to download I think the bigger problem is in like open world or bigger games

00:30:01   like how could they come to the Apple TV like something like a Grand Theft Auto

00:30:06   because you've got to be able like that would have to be some really really

00:30:10   impressive content delivery like to be able to load the specific part of the

00:30:15   world that you need to be in at a certain period of time that's that type

00:30:18   game feels like it's kind of walled off from being able to do this. Although it

00:30:22   does say that it can kind of download two gigabytes of levels, right? Like, so

00:30:26   maybe you could just tag the game map as two gigabytes and it downloads that. I'm

00:30:31   sure that there'll be developers that work their way around it, but it does

00:30:34   seem to pose some, just some difficult, not difficult, different design decisions

00:30:39   in the minds of developers as to how they're going to be able to effectively

00:30:43   implement these changes. You also get an additional 20 gigs of storage in

00:30:48   iCloud, so maybe 22 gigs in total will be okay for game developers who want to do that

00:30:54   kind of game on Apple TV.

00:30:57   I don't know.

00:30:58   It's just a different, and the Polygon article does a great job at explaining this, just

00:31:02   a different way of structuring a game for a TV.

00:31:07   I really don't know what kind of game experiences we'll see on the TBOS App Store.

00:31:15   The demo from the Apple event was not a good one.

00:31:19   So we'll see.

00:31:19   I have no idea what to expect.

00:31:22   - So something interesting while we're talking about apps,

00:31:25   a friend of mine who is going through app review right now,

00:31:30   who has been going around and around through app review,

00:31:33   it's kind of anecdotally said to me

00:31:35   that it feels like that Apple's app review for the tvOS

00:31:40   is kind of like original iPhone levels of picky

00:31:43   about human interface stuff.

00:31:45   like way harsher than the watch for example.

00:31:48   So it's, and this has been punctuated by other people,

00:31:51   like for example, Daniel Jelkirk got his app rejected

00:31:54   for not being useful enough,

00:31:55   and he was building a white noise app for the Apple TV.

00:31:59   So it's interesting to me if they are being,

00:32:02   and it does seem like, you know,

00:32:03   from stuff that we're seeing,

00:32:04   that Apple are being quite particular

00:32:06   with the type of stuff that they're letting on the TV.

00:32:08   And it makes me wonder, how are they viewing this platform?

00:32:12   Like, are they viewing it,

00:32:13   like it's a very, very important platform?

00:32:15   Are they trying to curate more heavily?

00:32:17   Like why are they doing this?

00:32:18   - I mean, I think that a lot of that has to do

00:32:24   with the interface being so new

00:32:26   and Apple really pushing it as a new platform

00:32:28   that they want only the best experiences.

00:32:31   Someone, the future of apps, television,

00:32:34   the first couple apps you download for your television

00:32:36   are cruddy, that doesn't really set off

00:32:40   in the right direction.

00:32:41   It doesn't put their best foot forward.

00:32:42   And so I think Apple would rather be hard on developers

00:32:45   and designers and saying,

00:32:47   "Hey, you know, you really need to fit into our vision

00:32:49   "of what this thing is."

00:32:50   Then flood the App Store on day one

00:32:53   and have a bunch of garbage in there.

00:32:56   - Yeah, it's,

00:32:58   because they didn't seem to be this way

00:33:01   with the watch though.

00:33:02   - Yeah, exactly.

00:33:03   - So is the Apple TV more important than the watch?

00:33:07   - You know, it may be that because watch apps

00:33:09   were bundled inside iPhone apps,

00:33:11   that they felt less free to knock people around over it.

00:33:15   Well, the Apple TV apps are sort of the separate new thing.

00:33:18   But I think they should have been harder on Watch apps.

00:33:23   But at the same time, all of Watch app conversation

00:33:27   has to be filtered through the fact that Gen 1 Watch apps

00:33:31   were inherently crippled by Apple's technology.

00:33:34   And so maybe they knew that, hey, you know,

00:33:39   all this stuff we gotta do

00:33:40   and talk back and forth to the iPhone,

00:33:43   we gotta give developers a lot of leeway here

00:33:47   because we didn't give them very good tools

00:33:49   and they're kinda doing it in the right hand.

00:33:51   - Yeah, like you don't have a right to be picky

00:33:55   because the software framework that you gave us,

00:33:58   it's kinda, it's really not a good one.

00:34:02   I understand that argument.

00:34:03   I think it's the one that makes the most sense in my mind,

00:34:06   whereas with the TV App Store, it's a new thing,

00:34:09   separate apps, it's not dependent on an iPhone, so they think they can be picky and to really

00:34:17   choose the kind of apps that they want to showcase, at least right now.

00:34:21   I really don't know what to think, again, no idea.

00:34:24   I know that there's a bunch of, I'm getting emails this week about all these new Apple

00:34:30   TV apps coming and it's all over the place, you know, and there's like, there's apps for

00:34:37   to set your TV with a particular ambient music or like there's some iPhone and iPad apps

00:34:44   that are getting Apple TV versions and I'm like why are you making an Apple TV version

00:34:49   of this? It doesn't make any sense when it's on your iPhone and iPad and even the Mac.

00:34:55   Why does it need to be on the television? So at least judging from my email inbox it

00:35:00   It seems that there's, at least from, you know, it's a very limited pool of data, but

00:35:07   it's the same story with the iPad, with the watch, with the Apple TV.

00:35:13   There's some apps that will make sense on the TV, some other apps are just conversions

00:35:17   from existing platforms that don't necessarily make sense on a TV, which Apple wants it to

00:35:24   be a new, a whole new platform, a whole new ecosystem, and I don't think that, you know,

00:35:29   making the utility that makes sense on the iPhone to bring it to the TV. I don't think

00:35:34   it makes sense. I guess we'll see. I don't know. My girlfriend is making fun of me for

00:35:41   buying another Apple TV.

00:35:43   It does seem a bit crazy because you just bought one.

00:35:46   Considering the experience of buying an old Apple TV and selling it to a drunk person,

00:35:52   but maybe this one will be better. Hey, maybe it'll actually work with HomeKit.

00:35:58   I'm intrigued about it but I'm not excited about it.

00:36:03   So it should arrive before next week and I'm interested to see what type of stuff is going

00:36:08   to be on the platform just so I can, as usual, see what developers envisioned as being an

00:36:13   Apple TV app.

00:36:16   Like I saw Daniel Pascoe of BlackPixel tweeted about NetNewswire today and it just is a nice

00:36:26   looking RSS reader for the TV which is an interesting use case, right? You get

00:36:33   your news in the morning or something by looking at what comes up on the screen.

00:36:37   But it's just I'm just I just don't know if this is a platform that I would use

00:36:44   very much. I haven't really got a sense for that yet and I don't know if that's

00:36:49   just me because there seems to be a lot of people that are really excited about

00:36:52   this so I think it's just my own use case. I think it's because we don't have

00:36:57   kids Myke. Yeah I think that is a big part of it. So we should we should we

00:37:03   should have kids to enjoy the Apple TV. Yeah that's to ensure you get the

00:37:06   entire experience. That's a step way past buying an Apple TV so you can talk about

00:37:11   it on a podcast. Having a child so you can test Apple products for a podcast.

00:37:15   That's commitment. Your life decisions but that doesn't seem like a great

00:37:20   reason to become a parent? I don't know. What do I know? I don't know. Micah, I

00:37:28   agree with you that there are some apps like out there that we've

00:37:33   heard about or people are talking about that I don't see myself using but at the

00:37:37   same time like I think anytime there's a new platform especially one that's so

00:37:42   radically different like I think there's a lot of opportunity for some exciting

00:37:46   stuff we haven't seen elsewhere like things like status what's the status

00:37:52   board app from panic whatever it's called status status board isn't it is

00:37:57   it is called status board things you know things like that like the Apple TV

00:38:07   is great like in the living room but there are a lot of them used in

00:38:10   businesses and in schools and stuff for just having a way to get content onto a

00:38:15   a display and so for that sort of use case I think there's a lot of interesting

00:38:18   things that developers could do turning the Apple TV plus a television into some

00:38:23   sort of smart display that can do could do more. Probably not gonna say for my

00:38:28   TV with remote and read my hundreds of our subscriptions but I do think there's

00:38:32   an interesting market for integrating the TV more into like everyday life

00:38:38   because I think us like the three of us like a lot of nerds like we don't like

00:38:44   The TV is not a big part of my life.

00:38:46   Definitely not a big part of my work life.

00:38:48   We'll sit down and watch a movie or something,

00:38:49   but at no point am I standing in front of my television

00:38:53   for work or integrating that into my workflow.

00:38:56   And maybe there's an opportunity there for the Apple TV

00:38:59   to make the television itself smarter

00:39:01   and more useful in work environments.

00:39:04   And from that angle, I think the Apple TV is pretty exciting

00:39:07   as far as the platform goes.

00:39:10   - Here's another potential problem for me

00:39:12   where maybe I don't see the Apple TV is that exciting. The TV that I'll be

00:39:16   plugging the Apple TV in is on the same desk as my iMac. So like at that

00:39:23   point it's like hmm you know like that smart stuff like could

00:39:29   probably just access most of it on my Mac. So that might be part of my

00:39:33   problem here. You must have a big desk. It's a very big desk. Oh nice. Yeah but

00:39:40   But you know me that's like that's you but I mean I think a lot of people I know I'm saying that's like why I think

00:39:46   It might I might not be excited about it

00:39:48   I know that the majority of people don't have the TVs in and their max on in the same physical location, but I do

00:39:54   Gotcha do people actually watch TV during the day. This is a harness question. I have no idea of course they do otherwise

00:40:01   It was a programming

00:40:03   You know we don't but lots and lots and lots of people do mm-hmm

00:40:08   Let's take a break and then we talk about Steve Jobs movie that none of us have seen.

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00:43:26   So the Steve Jobs movie is out.

00:43:28   Now this is the one of many but this was the one that was meant to be the good one I suppose

00:43:33   right so this is the Aaron Sorkin movie with Michael Fassbender playing Steve Jobs.

00:43:40   However it has bombed in the in the in the cinema.

00:43:44   So I give a quote from Variety.

00:43:47   So Steve Jobs debuted to a measly $7.3 million in box office receipts, only a little more

00:43:53   than the $6.7 million that Jobs, a critically derided film about the iPhone with Ashton

00:43:58   Kutcher made in its initial weekend.

00:44:01   Going into the weekend, some tracking suggested that the picture would do as much as $19 million,

00:44:05   so it was really kind of undersold.

00:44:09   Universal are going to continue strongly marketing the movie, and they're going to keep putting

00:44:13   money into it.

00:44:14   Steve Jobs cost 30 million dollars to make and Variety estimate that it's going to cost

00:44:21   that much as well to market. So this is a potential big hole that is... is it Universal?

00:44:30   This is a Universal movie? Yeah, so this is a pretty big hole that Universal found themselves in

00:44:35   and it seemed to be reviewed pretty well by movie websites. There's like potential Oscar talk

00:44:43   around this movie. So why has this happened?

00:44:48   I'd say from the general public perspective, just overhearing

00:44:55   people, there's sort of this idea of another Steve Jobs movie.

00:44:59   We just had one and that one is pretty well known for not being very good.

00:45:03   So I think people may assume that this one wouldn't be

00:45:06   any different. I think there's sort of a Steve Jobs overload and

00:45:13   out in the world right now and we can get to why nerds don't like it but I

00:45:18   Can't help but think it's like a little too soon after the last one to really be seen in a different light

00:45:24   I think the failure of the the previous movie

00:45:27   Has not done much to help to help this one

00:45:31   Can I can I just be that guy I don't know the actor who's this person Michael Fassbender

00:45:40   He's okay. You might not know him. The rest of the world knows him. He's yeah, all the x-men movies

00:45:45   He's as famous as DiCaprio

00:45:47   Maybe now like I mean if you look at some of the stuff that well Michael Fassbender is currently in more

00:45:54   Blockbuster movies than DiCaprio is because Fassbender is working more. It doesn't sound this famous as DiCaprio

00:46:02   Well, DiCaprio is historically famous

00:46:06   Yeah, I don't know. I'm not a movie person, but I know DiCaprio and I know-

00:46:10   Well then you're the wrong person to make this decision.

00:46:12   I'm just saying, I'm not a movie person, but I know who DiCaprio is, I know who Christian Bale is.

00:46:18   He's the guy who played Batman, right? And I never heard of this fast bender.

00:46:24   Okay, well he has been nominated for an Oscar, if that helps you.

00:46:26   Oh yeah, sure, sure.

00:46:27   He was in Prometheus, he's been in the X-Men movies.

00:46:29   Just saying, you movie people get upset really easily.

00:46:32   He's gonna play the Assassin's Creed movie?

00:46:34   Oh, there's gonna be an Assassin's Creed movie. I bet that's gonna be great. Well, I know it's real

00:46:39   Oh, no, it's gonna suck. But this is just my kind of

00:46:42   Showing to you that he is a very very big Hollywood star. Okay, so just trust me on that

00:46:49   So if I if I ask my any friend of my you Michael Fassbender is they're gonna say yes, we know Michael Fassbender

00:46:54   I can't guarantee that all of your friends will know but this this is

00:46:59   Find the drunk guy in the park look on his ice cake Federico

00:47:03   I'm gonna put his IMDB into the chat room right so you can go joke and I'll put it in the show notes

00:47:07   And you can see the massive long list of movies

00:47:09   This guy's been in in the last 10 years and how many he has coming up. Let's just let's just say he is a very big movie

00:47:16   star

00:47:17   X man

00:47:18   Yeah, it does superhero stuff, which I don't follow

00:47:21   I know but you also have to remember that superhero movies are the biggest movies now

00:47:27   So you don't you don't know him because for whatever reason but the issue is not the the actor did the cost

00:47:34   Right because like there's well like the the cost of this movie goes on to have

00:47:39   Has is it Seth Rogen? Oh

00:47:42   Yeah, another guy Kate Winslet and Jeff Daniels. They're like the four main actors in this movie

00:47:48   So they got a big cost. It's like I look at this and think it's interesting

00:47:52   I mean, I I hadn't really considered the Steve Jobs overload thing, but that makes sense

00:47:57   like but I was thinking about the social network and how well that did

00:48:00   Right, which was just a story about Facebook

00:48:03   Written by the same guy and it is really interesting to me that for some reason this one just hasn't

00:48:09   grabbed people when Steve Jobs is a

00:48:13   More interesting figure to the rest of the world. I think then Mark Zuckerberg was at that time. Yeah, so I think that's where

00:48:21   the strife in our community spills over so if you are

00:48:26   an Apple fan or Steve Jobs fan or whatever

00:48:28   It's pretty well known again. None of us have seen it. It is on my calendar actually for tomorrow night, hopefully, but

00:48:35   From from listening to people and reading the views and whatnot

00:48:40   Sorkin took a lot of liberties with this story and and that's fine

00:48:45   like I think like we spoke about a couple weeks ago if you're going to make a movie you have artistic license to

00:48:51   Change things to make it a better movie and generally I like Aaron Sorkin stuff

00:48:55   but it seems like if you mess with the Steve Jobs story,

00:49:00   there's a certain section of the Apple community

00:49:05   that's gonna get upset about that,

00:49:07   and that spills over, right?

00:49:09   Someone's gonna go search for a Steve Jobs movie review,

00:49:12   and they might come across someone who is really unhappy

00:49:16   that Evan Sorkin really took big liberties with his life

00:49:18   and really changed things to make what he thought

00:49:21   was a better screenplay.

00:49:24   And so maybe there's some of that bleed of, you know,

00:49:26   nerds are unhappy about it and that has sort of seeped out

00:49:29   into the general public.

00:49:31   I think that any Jobs movie or any Apple,

00:49:37   it's kind of such a movie, from this point forward,

00:49:40   has to have the blessing of the community to do well.

00:49:45   Because there's a lot of us, right?

00:49:47   And there's a lot of people in this community

00:49:49   who are unhappy with it and that's gonna get around.

00:49:51   Like I'm only gonna go see it

00:49:52   so I can do follow up next week.

00:49:54   I'm not particularly interested in seeing it at this point

00:49:56   and I'm going in knowing that I'm probably going

00:50:00   to be disappointed for a bunch of different reasons.

00:50:02   And that hurts it too, that word of mouth gets around

00:50:06   and once it does I would imagine it's really hard

00:50:08   to counter that no matter how many millions of dollars

00:50:12   you can pour into marketing.

00:50:14   I think it's a shame, I mean I think Aaron Sorkin

00:50:17   does good work and I think that this could've been

00:50:19   really interesting movie if he had done gone about it differently but I wonder

00:50:24   that so much story tweaking just really set the wrong tone for everybody.

00:50:28   It doesn't come out here until like the middle of November.

00:50:31   It should have been with DiCaprio I think.

00:50:34   So yeah that was the thing right so DiCaprio I would have I'm a big fan of

00:50:38   would love to have seen him but he seemed the reports are that he got

00:50:43   basically basically Lorraine Powell Jobs called him and said don't do it and the

00:50:47   the same for Christian Bale as well but the thing was it seems like it doesn't

00:50:53   matter who the actor was the story was always gonna be the same like it could

00:50:57   have been however it was acted isn't the issue like most people's issues seems to

00:51:00   be the way that it was structured in the story that was told because like I mean

00:51:04   there's a great episode of the control Walt delete podcast from the verge which

00:51:08   is actually becoming one of my favorite shows I actually really really like this

00:51:11   show and in it Walt Mossberg basically expresses his extreme unhappiness about

00:51:18   the way that the movie portrays Jobs and he tells some stories of his own to try

00:51:23   and highlight what why he thinks that the movie is bad and he doesn't like it

00:51:28   fictionalized things to a point and feels like overall and a lot of people

00:51:31   said this it doesn't paint a full picture of Steve Jobs like it stops at

00:51:36   the iPod right so it misses out the best kind of all of Jobs's best work right

00:51:41   which came afterwards, like the iPhone, the iPad,

00:51:43   and everything else that came after it.

00:51:45   And this makes me wonder, like looking at this movie,

00:51:49   all the stuff that's come before it,

00:51:50   the books that have come out,

00:51:51   is there ever going to be a fair and balanced account

00:51:56   of Steve Jobs' life?

00:51:58   Like, is this ever going to happen?

00:52:00   Is it too late now for us to get a scenario

00:52:03   in which everyone is happy?

00:52:05   I think it's not gonna happen ever,

00:52:08   because we just don't have the resources or materials.

00:52:10   - I guess that in most cases,

00:52:14   normal life doesn't make for a great movie.

00:52:17   - Well, I mean, yeah, but mine and your lives maybe, but...

00:52:22   So, right, so have you seen "The Social Network"?

00:52:25   Because that is a really great movie.

00:52:27   However, in the same issue,

00:52:29   Zuckerberg says that a lot of it is falsified.

00:52:33   Like it's not true, or like is fictionalized.

00:52:37   So like, this kind of got me wondering though,

00:52:39   will there ever even be a book?

00:52:41   'Cause books can go into more detail, right?

00:52:44   And it seems like the two books that have come out,

00:52:48   kind of the biggest books that have come out,

00:52:49   like the Isaacson book and the Schindler book,

00:52:52   there still seems to be a lot of people

00:52:54   that are unhappy with it.

00:52:55   Like the Schindler book seems to have gotten

00:52:56   Apple's blessing, but still people seem to not be happy.

00:52:59   Like I'm just thinking at this point,

00:53:01   there's never gonna be an account of Steve Jobs' life,

00:53:05   which is gonna make everyone happy

00:53:07   because the man isn't alive anymore to do it himself.

00:53:11   - I think that the second book you referenced,

00:53:13   Becoming Steve Jobs, is between those two,

00:53:16   a much better book.

00:53:17   But even it, there's this problem

00:53:20   in telling the story, right,

00:53:21   that the story is still ongoing from the Apple perspective.

00:53:24   So the Islaxton book, this movie,

00:53:27   Even Becoming Steve Jobs, they are weighted towards

00:53:31   Steve's first time at Apple and then at Next

00:53:35   and then Pixar, Pixar X is a pretty big player

00:53:38   in the Becoming Steve Jobs book

00:53:39   and was my favorite sections of the book.

00:53:42   But telling the story of Steve Jobs' return to Apple,

00:53:46   a lot of that is still locked up from a company perspective.

00:53:49   A lot of people who can tell those stories

00:53:52   aren't able to because they're still in them.

00:53:55   And so I wouldn't say never,

00:53:57   but I would say it's going to be a while.

00:53:59   I mean, I do think there's an opportunity

00:54:01   for 10, 15, 20 years down the road

00:54:03   for a book that does interview people

00:54:06   who were there with Jobs and who have been gone

00:54:08   for a long time from Apple or as Apple has moved on,

00:54:13   those people are more willing to talk about things.

00:54:15   But right now, I'm sure there's really interesting stories

00:54:18   locked up in Jobs' second time at Apple

00:54:21   that no one knows because the people who are part

00:54:24   of the stories just can't talk about them.

00:54:26   And maybe those people will never talk.

00:54:28   I don't know if someone like Phil Shiller's

00:54:29   ever gonna have a book written about his career.

00:54:32   But I do think there's an opportunity for that,

00:54:34   but not anytime soon.

00:54:36   And so I'm hesitant to say any more about Job's life

00:54:40   or history of Apple or any of that sort of content,

00:54:43   any sort of that stuff,

00:54:45   until we sort of move past that era at Apple.

00:54:50   And that's happening now,

00:54:52   but all those same people are there, you know.

00:54:55   Cook and Apple's board have done a really good job

00:54:57   at keeping the executive team basically the same as under Jobs and so all those

00:55:03   same players are still involved. Until that's not true I don't see the

00:55:07   opportunity for somebody to come up with something new that is really powerful in any new way.

00:55:12   Federico I want to ask you. Do you think we need this? Do we need a story of Jobs's life which is more full and has the stuff that we don't know?

00:55:24   Well, it depends if you need a story or if you need to be entertained by a story.

00:55:30   I guess that's what I try to ask myself.

00:55:32   Do I want to know the truth or do I want to spend a couple of hours in front of a screen

00:55:36   and be told a story that makes me feel good about my day or my evening?

00:55:41   I think we need a story and we need more people who actually do the work necessary to document

00:55:52   a person's life.

00:55:54   I'm not sure we need any more entertainment about Steve Jobs.

00:55:58   That's what I think.

00:55:59   And again, I'm not a particularly knowledgeable movie person, but I have always been fascinated

00:56:07   by Steve Jobs as a figure, as a businessman, as a creative, you know.

00:56:12   And I guess I'm not really interested in Steve Jobs as a family man because we all have our

00:56:20   own flaws and we we all make our own mistakes. I don't really feel the need to be entertained

00:56:27   by the story of a man who has not a good relationship with his daughter, you know?

00:56:33   I agree with you to a point there actually. All of the stuff about the family stuff,

00:56:42   it's interesting in painting the fuller picture of him, but I don't know if that's something that

00:56:48   needs to be exposed as much as it is. Like all of that stuff I don't know if it

00:56:53   informs his work but I think that if you want to get a if

00:56:57   you want an account on Steve Jobs you have that account because

00:57:00   he's responsible in some part for some of the most important things to happen

00:57:04   in technology and therefore shaping the world and I think a lot of that just

00:57:07   comes from his decision making and the way that he did the work that he

00:57:11   did and the way that he approached that and I don't know if stories about him

00:57:17   not wanting to have anything to do with his first daughter really helps with that account.

00:57:22   Yeah. Again, I would rather... if I wanted to hear about Steve Jobs' personal life,

00:57:33   I would rather get that directly from the source, you know? From Lisa or from other people,

00:57:40   not by a movie director. I think part of the problem that we're always going to have here

00:57:46   is Jobs didn't want to share it in the first place so I don't think there's we're gonna get a ton more

00:57:51   than this because people that truly care about him it's it's very likely that they will not share

00:57:57   their stories so it feels like what we have like the Isaacson book that's as much as you're gonna

00:58:03   get from a personal perspective yeah that that's how I look at it now it's like obviously his

00:58:07   family is never gonna write a book about him like Johnny Ives never gonna write a book about him

00:58:13   because they all care about his privacy because they cared about the man.

00:58:17   So it feels like at this point what we have is what we're gonna get, to me anyway.

00:58:22   And I think I'm okay with it, you know?

00:58:24   I watched the Jobs movie with Ashton.

00:58:29   I guess it was okay.

00:58:32   If by okay you mean it's what you expect, you know, from this type of movie.

00:58:38   I don't know.

00:58:41   people are making a big deal here, maybe because Aaron Sorkin is a big name in the industry, I guess.

00:58:47   I would like to see more books and more, you know, documents and interviews, not, you know,

00:58:55   stories like this. That's my two cents as a non-movie expert or person in general.

00:59:01   Any from what say on this? No, I think that pretty much covers it. I'm gonna go see it

00:59:05   and maybe we can follow up if I have any interesting comments or when you guys see it, but

00:59:10   but I expect mostly just to be sad.

00:59:13   So we'll see how that goes.

00:59:15   - When does it come out on iTunes?

00:59:18   - I expect it will probably,

00:59:20   I think it might be before the end of the year now because.

00:59:23   - Okay.

00:59:24   - Well, 'cause if it's not gonna do well in the cinema,

00:59:26   then they'll release it quick.

00:59:27   - I don't go to the cinema, it's gross.

00:59:29   - Yeah, it is gross.

00:59:30   Can you guys see a world where Apple just doesn't let it

00:59:33   in iTunes, they're like, sorry Universal or whoever.

00:59:35   - That's an interesting thought, right?

00:59:38   - They might say no, they could say no.

00:59:40   - Could they?

00:59:42   - Sure they could.

00:59:43   - If that happens, it would definitely make it a follow up.

00:59:46   - Yeah. - Yeah.

00:59:47   - I mean that really would be like a stamp

00:59:48   of disapproval from Apple.

00:59:49   Like that's the biggest one I could think.

00:59:52   That's really the strongest weapon they have against it

00:59:55   is just saying we're not gonna sell it.

00:59:57   Contrast that with the guys who wrote "Becoming Steve Jobs"

01:00:02   being interviewed by John Gruber in an Apple store.

01:00:04   Like you can't really get farther apart

01:00:07   the way that Apple views something. A couple of executives tweeted about that

01:00:10   book as well didn't they? They did I think Q and Schiller both actually. Yeah.

01:00:15   Yeah they're the only one on Twitter. They're big Twitter users. That also

01:00:20   shines a light in the opposite direction for me. It's like if it's so endorsed by

01:00:24   Apple like is it fair and I don't know. You know like I feel like there's no

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01:02:46   So earlier or this week or late last week our friend Fraser Spears from the out of school

01:02:51   podcast got some time with an iPad Pro at a private event in London. I'm just going

01:02:58   to assume it was Myke who just put "Sci" in parentheses in the show notes.

01:03:03   No, it was mine. It was yours.

01:03:05   You guys seem to be sad about that. Really some really interesting tidbits of information

01:03:12   that he has shared with people about that. Federica, you collected some of your favorites.

01:03:19   you want to walk us through these?

01:03:21   - Yeah, so in what the kids call a tweet storm these days,

01:03:26   Fraser tweeted a couple of interesting details

01:03:30   about the iPad Pro.

01:03:31   The first one that jumps to mind is,

01:03:34   he tried the iPad Pro with the pencil,

01:03:36   with the stylus made by Apple,

01:03:38   and he says, as many other people have said so far,

01:03:41   it's got the best polymer ejection he's seen in iOS to date.

01:03:46   Fraser has tried many drawing apps and silences over the years. He's probably the person who

01:03:53   started the whole iPad deployment in school, the one-to-one program for pupils in a school

01:04:02   in Scotland. He knows what he's talking about when it comes to iPad and drawing and giving

01:04:09   accessories to iPad users. So he says that the pencil feels great, the polymer ejection

01:04:14   really works as advertised. He got to try the stylus with Paper by 53 which has a couple

01:04:21   of optimizations on the iPad Pro. He says that it takes advantage of the bigger screen,

01:04:29   we don't know how because there's no screenshots. He also tried the pencil on a couple of Adobe

01:04:34   apps and apparently it works really great. And as many other people have said, you know,

01:04:42   or Disney artists it works well so that sounds exciting there's not gonna be a

01:04:49   smart case for the iPad Pro there's going to be a pro size smart cover

01:04:54   there's going to be the smart keyboard there's not there's not going to be a

01:04:58   least initially pro version of the smart case to which I ask the question does

01:05:04   anyone even remember the iPad smart case? Some people do use them unlike them like

01:05:10   I think the reason, well yeah because Fraser put a little sadness emoji, I think he wants

01:05:17   a smart case and I can see why for him with what he uses and what he does with iPads,

01:05:23   so putting them in schools and stuff, having a case that goes all the way around with the

01:05:27   smart cover functionality I guess could be really good.

01:05:30   If you want to keep the device protected, that one maybe seems like the best option

01:05:35   because you also get the benefit of the smart cover.

01:05:38   I would never use a smart case. I worry less about about breaking my

01:05:45   iPad by dropping it even though in theory it's probably easier to drop

01:05:49   because like the weight and the center of gravity and stuff. I'm almost

01:05:53   convinced that I will on multiple occasions flip my iPad Pro over

01:05:59   accidentally. I'm holding it in the bottom corner and I hit something

01:06:02   on the top and it just flips. Because I could just imagine the center of

01:06:06   gravity being all kinds of crazy on a device that big, but we'll wait and see about that.

01:06:10   Yeah, it's sad that the weight distribution on the iPad Pro is not as bad as you'd imagine

01:06:18   given the bigger size.

01:06:19   It doesn't feel as lightweight as an iPad Air 2, and it doesn't know if you're going

01:06:24   to be able to hold it with one hand in between your thumb and your index finger for prolonged

01:06:30   periods of time.

01:06:31   Apple wants you to believe that you will be capable of doing that based on marketing images.

01:06:36   I don't know what kind of hand training this Apple marketing people go through to

01:06:42   shoot those photos.

01:06:44   But it says it's most likely you're going to be resting the iPad Pro on your arm when

01:06:51   you use it.

01:06:52   You know, when you want to hold it upright, important maybe.

01:06:55   You're just going to rest it on your arm so you can use it.

01:06:58   We'll see.

01:06:59   The smart keyboard, it's more similar to the Logitech keys to go external keyboard, which

01:07:08   means I think it's similar to a surface keyboard.

01:07:13   So it's like there's no travel to the keys, you just press and it's not like a physical

01:07:20   keyboard that you guys like.

01:07:22   There's no travel here.

01:07:23   It's like a single very thin surface and you just press the keys.

01:07:28   like a membrane type thing.

01:07:30   Yeah.

01:07:30   I know it's not that.

01:07:31   I know because Apple are using those like--

01:07:34   does that new butterfly switch.

01:07:35   But I guess because of the covering over the top,

01:07:39   it maybe even feels like it moves less.

01:07:42   Yeah, that makes me sad to hear.

01:07:44   I have all of this.

01:07:46   And I don't know what I was expecting, but there

01:07:49   are iPad keyboards out there that

01:07:51   do have a clicky feel to them and do feel like real keyboards.

01:07:55   And this seems like it's not that thing.

01:07:58   And especially, I want to see how long it will take companies like Logitech or maybe

01:08:03   Belkin to make keyboards with actual keys that connect with the smart connector to the

01:08:10   iPad Pro.

01:08:11   I know that Logitech already has an announcement, I haven't seen any by other companies.

01:08:16   So I'm curious to see how long it will take third party manufacturers to take advantage

01:08:22   of that piece of hardware.

01:08:25   Speaking of software, it says, as we suspected, there's no change to the springboard.

01:08:32   So the home screen of the iPad Pro is a bigger version of the traditional iPad home screen.

01:08:37   The only change is that instead of 6 or 7 apps that you see in the command tab switcher,

01:08:46   you get 8 on the iPad Pro.

01:08:48   So I guess, yay for bigger screen.

01:08:52   There's no other change, really.

01:08:53   The layout of the apps is the same, folders are the same, control center, I'm interested

01:08:59   in seeing how it will scale in landscape mode.

01:09:05   We mentioned this a couple of episodes ago, we were talking about the iPad Pro.

01:09:08   I think there will have to be changes to the home screen there, you know, to fully take

01:09:14   advantage of the bigger screen.

01:09:17   Already the iPad home screen feels like a wasted opportunity compared to the iPhone.

01:09:22   I can imagine on the Pro, again, Control Center, I want to see what they do there.

01:09:27   Because I haven't seen any screenshots or videos with that specific portion of iOS.

01:09:33   I think the thing that surprises me the most about this is that you don't just do the obvious,

01:09:37   which is just put more icons on the home screen.

01:09:40   Yeah, yeah.

01:09:41   Or something, I mean...

01:09:43   Something, exactly.

01:09:44   Yeah, like I know I'd like to see more stuff done with it, but like, you know, the obvious

01:09:47   one is just you've got the space put the icons on at least rather than just

01:09:52   making the gaps between them bigger. Yeah I mean compared to an iPad mini it being

01:09:57   the same really is pretty ridiculous I mean the iPad Air 2 already that home

01:10:02   screen feels like you said better go wasted in a way I was really hoping they

01:10:06   would do more with that and you know maybe it's that it's coming out with

01:10:11   iOS I guess 9.2 so it is sort of mid-cycle for an iOS release and they're

01:10:15   not, you know, they're not gonna drastically change it at this point, so I

01:10:17   guess, fingers crossed, for next year, which is like everyone who follows Apple

01:10:22   like their favorite saying, like maybe next year they'll fix it. Yeah, I mean I

01:10:25   think, I think maybe this is too early to start talking about this, but you'd kind

01:10:31   of expect, and I know Federico you were kind of going along these lines in

01:10:35   your review, that iOS 10 should be another big change, because it's 10. Yeah.

01:10:43   I know it's maybe silly just because it's 10 but historically 10 has been an occasion

01:10:52   for Apple to introduce changes.

01:10:54   Like if you're gonna do something big anywhere.

01:10:58   They replaced their entire operating system on the Mac.

01:11:01   Yeah, twice!

01:11:02   Because Mac OS X and then with Yosemite they changed the whole interface.

01:11:10   They like the round number.

01:11:16   What else do we have here?

01:11:17   So multitasking is going to be more comfortable on the iPad Pro because as we also imagined,

01:11:23   using two apps at the same time kind of feels like having two iPads in portrait mode at

01:11:29   the same time.

01:11:30   So it makes sense.

01:11:31   Bigger iPad, bigger apps in multitasking, more comfortable to use because you can see

01:11:37   more of both apps, not necessarily just one app. So I'm excited to see how it works there.

01:11:43   Federico, I have a quick question for you.

01:11:46   Okay.

01:11:46   Have you ever used two iPads at the same time?

01:11:51   You know, actually I have.

01:11:52   [Laughter]

01:11:53   And I'll tell you, actually it's very nice timing for this question, Myke, because today

01:12:01   Apple will announce their fiscal results. There's a Q4 2015 earnings call and I remember

01:12:08   last year, or maybe two years ago, I didn't have Workflow on my iPad, the app for iOS

01:12:18   automation. And so I used Silvia's iPad to update my WordPress article on one iPad and

01:12:29   do the image conversion and upload on another iPad.

01:12:32   That was before multitasking, before extensions,

01:12:35   before workflow.

01:12:37   So I actually pulled a Dave Morin

01:12:40   and I used two iPads at the same time, you know?

01:12:43   - That is fantastic.

01:12:46   - Now, of course, with multitasking, it's just perfect

01:12:48   because I can use Excel with workflow at the same time.

01:12:53   So I can pull in my charts, upload them,

01:12:57   convert them with the extension, it's just amazing.

01:13:02   And I will do that tonight.

01:13:04   - Can we talk about that a little bit next week,

01:13:06   because I'm interested about why you use Excel and stuff,

01:13:09   but we don't have the time for it this week.

01:13:11   - Okay, sure, sure.

01:13:13   - When you said that, I was like, I wonder why Excel?

01:13:15   So I'm gonna put that in for next week.

01:13:17   - Okay.

01:13:18   So I just wanna conclude with Fraser as a comment

01:13:23   on what you expect my reaction to be for the iPad Pro.

01:13:29   And he says "You're gonna flip for this device".

01:13:34   That's his comment.

01:13:36   I kinda wanna know from YouTube because I don't know what to think here anymore.

01:13:43   I guess I just cannot wait to try one.

01:13:48   And it's not that the iPad R2 doesn't satisfy me anymore because I can get work done on

01:13:56   a daily basis and it's been to date, the R2, my most used iOS device ever.

01:14:03   The things that I've done on the iPad R2 I haven't done on any other iPhone or iPad before.

01:14:09   So I'm super super happy with the iPad R2.

01:14:13   But I think with the Pro I can do a lot more, especially for multi-casking and this bigger

01:14:20   kind of canvas idea.

01:14:23   But I'm concerned about the portability, holding the iPad with my hands, which I also do a

01:14:30   lot when I walk around the house or work from, I don't know, when I'm waiting at the doctor's

01:14:37   office or I'm waiting in the car and I'm concerned there, that it's just too big.

01:14:43   I kind of want to know from you two if you've been thinking about the Pro, and especially

01:14:47   you Myke, because you've kind of been doing stuff on the iPad lately.

01:14:51   What do you think?

01:14:52   So whilst at Release Notes, people were talking to me about you and the iPad Pro.

01:14:58   That was the thing.

01:14:59   And I remain, I know that you don't think you're going to do this, but I still believe

01:15:05   that you will be a two iPad man after the iPad Pro.

01:15:09   I genuinely feel like you will have the iPad Pro at home and you will take a small iPad

01:15:14   like a mini with you out into the world for portability.

01:15:19   Because I understand in what Fraser is saying, just looking at that research, you're going

01:15:25   to flip, you're going to go crazy for this thing.

01:15:28   Because you've been so far out of the mindset of like a home computer and a travel computer

01:15:34   for so long now because your main computer has been fine for travelling with, but the

01:15:39   iPad Pro is potentially going to be a little bit too big for you to take to the beach.

01:15:43   But you're still going to want to do work at the beach, and you're also going to love

01:15:46   the iPad Pro.

01:15:47   So I continue to put money down, and this will be the greatest Myke was right, if after

01:15:52   a couple of months you end up with like a mini or something.

01:15:56   The closer we get to this, the more excited I get about the idea of it, because I tell

01:16:00   you are. I love my iPad so much now. Like so much. Multitasking has made it so

01:16:07   amazing. I love it. I really really love it. And I and Chrome now has

01:16:12   multitasking even though their implementation. I wish they did slightly

01:16:16   differently. I don't like the tab stay on the top. It takes up too much of the real

01:16:19   estate but I know why they're doing it. They're kind of stuck but it's fine.

01:16:23   Give me Google Docs man. All I want is Google Docs. Just give me Google Docs and

01:16:27   and it's game over, I'll be able to do so much work on that iPad.

01:16:32   Like all of my show prep, I can just see me doing it on the iPad

01:16:35   because I'll be able to do it from wherever I want,

01:16:36   and then to be sitting in front of my computer all the time.

01:16:38   Because I sit in front of my computer for so many hours of the day, right?

01:16:41   Recording and editing.

01:16:43   It's nice to be able to do that stuff away, and I can use my laptop,

01:16:47   but then if I'm using my laptop, I kind of feel like I should just be on the iMac.

01:16:52   Right, so I like doing that kind of stuff on iOS. I like Tweetbot and Slack

01:16:57   side-by-side. I love all of that stuff. So the idea of being able to use these apps

01:17:02   in basically full-size mode, that really excites me, I have to say. So I'm very

01:17:08   very intrigued for this device. And Steven, whilst we were at release notes, I

01:17:16   heard you matter at least once or twice that you were becoming excited about it.

01:17:20   Yeah I think like like you guys iOS 9 has changed the game and I can do more

01:17:27   in my iPad but one of the reasons I still don't is that the split screen is

01:17:32   still is still pretty snug depending on what you're doing and you're still kind

01:17:35   of doing some juggling in and out of at least I am multitasking modes and so

01:17:41   yeah I think that it would be interesting to see and I am interested

01:17:46   in the pencil even though I'm not an artist by any means but I'm interested

01:17:49   see how they how they do it so I think I'm where you were a couple of weeks ago

01:17:53   Myke that I'm definitely willing to pick one up to try it out and the question

01:17:57   will be is something that I keep and incorporate in my life you know the most

01:18:04   most of the time no matter how good my intentions are my pad air 2 is still

01:18:08   more consumption and I wonder if the screen size and the power will be what

01:18:13   tipped that in the other direction for me so I'm interested in trying it I just

01:18:17   I just don't know if it'll be something that sticks around, if that makes sense.

01:18:21   Any more interesting tidbits from Federico that you found that you like?

01:18:27   I was reading through his tweets again last night.

01:18:31   Another one was, of course, it has a work feel to it, the iPad Pro.

01:18:38   And I guess it, of course, it makes sense because it's a bigger iPad with a keyboard

01:18:44   and it's basically a MacBook and he also says you're going to use this more at a desk instead

01:18:53   of holding the iPad and walking around, which is what concerns me and what leads you to

01:18:58   think that I will end up with two iPads. I really don't know what to think anymore.

01:19:05   It's one of those things, ok just let me use one and then I will decide. Because in theory,

01:19:11   Awesome! I can use two apps at the same time, they're bigger, they're more powerful, the speakers, you know, they're louder

01:19:18   I can listen to music better on the iPad Pro and I'm no artist, you know

01:19:23   So I don't know if I will buy a pencil because I every time I try to buy iPad Sile

01:19:29   just

01:19:32   I feel bad, you know, like I can barely draw my name and

01:19:35   You know, I just I just suck at drawings

01:19:39   I will probably buy the smart keyboard because I want to try it, but I don't know if it'll be for me

01:19:44   I just want to get the device and the model that I'm considering is of course the the top of the line

01:19:50   128 gigs

01:19:53   Wi-Fi and cellular because I mean I need my 4G LTE and

01:19:58   It's it'll probably cost a thousand euros and maybe more

01:20:05   We don't know when it's coming. They said November, but we don't know anything else at this point

01:20:10   I guess we'll just keep waiting now. We'll see

01:20:13   It's bigger. It's I guess it's better

01:20:18   in terms of

01:20:20   Software and power, you know

01:20:22   Seeing more at the same time that that that's the kind of stuff that intrigues me

01:20:27   Portability and you know the weight and holding the iPad which is an essential aspect for me

01:20:35   I don't know how it'll work out. I really don't want to be the guy with two iPads, Myke.

01:20:39   You're gonna be that guy, I'm telling you.

01:20:42   No, you gotta talk to Sylvia for me about that because I cannot have this discussion

01:20:46   with her, you know, two iPads.

01:20:49   She'll just ban me from

01:20:52   from her household.

01:20:54   So now your plan is, you're listening to it, you're thinking it sounds like a good idea

01:20:58   so you want me to convince your girlfriend.

01:21:00   Is that what you're saying?

01:21:01   No, I'm saying if it's the only possible solution to keep me happy you will have to talk to her for me

01:21:07   Okay

01:21:09   Okay, I can do that. It's all about the Moneta. Yeah

01:21:13   Try that Myke that's a good idea. I'll try that. Do you have anything else you wanted to mention?

01:21:21   I hope it's not the end of November, but maybe mid-november

01:21:25   Because the weight is killing me

01:21:29   That's what you'll be saying after you get one as well

01:21:31   Yes, thank you, let's wrap up that's the end of this week's episode everyone if you want to find our show notes

01:21:42   You can go and head over to relay.fm/connected/63

01:21:46   I was really proud of that joke, by the way

01:21:47   If you want to find all of us online as a couple of places you can do that

01:21:51   Oh, we should mention Steven has a Nexus. He just got a

01:21:55   new Nexus. What one did you get? The 5x? So we're gonna talk about it a

01:22:00   little bit next week. If you have any questions about that you should send them

01:22:04   in with the hashtag #ismhnexus which Stephen has chosen. We can tweet about

01:22:10   that as well because now that I started the wrap-up of the show I don't

01:22:13   know how many people continue listening so I guess we'll find out, right, if they

01:22:17   continue to tweet. If you do listen to the end of the show, like if you're

01:22:20   listening to me right now, just tweet at Stephen anyway and tell him.

01:22:23   He really likes to hear from you all.

01:22:25   And if you want to do that you can tweet @ismh and you'll get the lovely Mr. Steven Hackett.

01:22:30   If you'd like to find Federico he's @vittici, V-I-T-I-C-C-I and I am @imike, I-M-Y-K-E.

01:22:37   Steven also writes over at 512pixels.net and co-hosts Liftoff on Relay FM.

01:22:42   Federico writes at maxstories.net and co-hosts Virtual with me on Relay FM.

01:22:47   I host many other shows.

01:22:48   You can find all those shows and all the great shows at Relay.fm.

01:22:53   Thanks so much for our sponsors this week.

01:22:55   The good people over at Braintree, Igloo and Warby Parker.

01:22:58   And we'll be back next time.

01:22:59   Until then, say goodbye guys.

01:23:01   Adios, Erci.

01:23:02   Adios.