0:00:00[Intro]
0:00:06From Relayer Fam, this is Connected, episode number 63.
0:00:12Today's show is brought to you by our friends over at igloo, an internet you'll actually
0:00:15like, Warby Parker, because glasses should not cost as much as an iPhone, and Braintree,
0:00:21code for easy online payments.
0:00:23My name is Myke Hurley and I am joined by Mr Federico Vittucci.
0:00:27Hello Myke.
0:00:28How are you Federico?
0:00:29I'm doing great. How are you with the cold medicines? I saw the picture on Twitter.
0:00:34I hope I'm going to be okay. So yesterday I was doing the pen addict, and if I spoke
0:00:37for more than 20 seconds, I nearly ran out of oxygen. So I'm hoping today that won't
0:00:42be the case. And Mr. Steven Hackett, hello sir, how are you?
0:00:46I'm good, Myke. I'm glad that you're with us today.
0:00:49So we were together last week. Do you think you might come down with this plague that
0:00:53I have?
0:00:54I'm about 36 hours behind you.
0:00:56I felt bad last night, I feel worse today.
0:00:59So we'll see.
0:01:00- Look forward to that.
0:01:02That's cough medicine.
0:01:05- Oh.
0:01:06- Are you just taking a swig of it?
0:01:07- No, I was shaking the box.
0:01:10- Just keeping a glass of medicine next to you as you speak.
0:01:13- Well, I took it about 10 minutes before we started.
0:01:15It is non-drowsy, which is good.
0:01:17I made sure to ensure that I wasn't gonna get drowsy
0:01:20medicine 'cause then I might just fall asleep
0:01:22on the show and that doesn't seem like it would be a very good thing to do.
0:01:26I've made that mistake before, taking drowsy accidentally and it will ruin your plans for
0:01:32the day.
0:01:35One of the changes that I noticed in my lifestyle after I went through treatments and all that
0:01:41kind of stuff, basically I don't care about medicines anymore.
0:01:46Before I used to be extremely careful in taking medicines, you know, "Oh, maybe I should avoid
0:01:51taking this you know cold medicine maybe I should you know it's bad for the
0:01:54stomach now I just don't care as soon as I see the symptoms I'm like okay I'm
0:01:59gonna take everything because I took far worse and what's a cold medicine gonna do to me I
0:02:04mean my stomach it's you know I wouldn't say it's gone but you know it's gone
0:02:09through a lot of stuff so whatever as soon as I see the symptoms are like nope
0:02:13I'm gonna take everything that's in my in my emergency closet I'm just gonna
0:02:18take the pills, I'm gonna take everything, I don't care. And it works, you know? I haven't
0:02:23had one of those high fevers in a long time, but I don't recommend this kind of solution.
0:02:30I think this is the first time that I've been concerned about losing my voice
0:02:35in the last few years, which is making me think that I should look into vocal exercises.
0:02:42You gotta put an insurance on your throat, Myke.
0:02:46But I had once considered that, but that seems a bit too diva-ish, you know?
0:02:49It's like a football player ensuring his leg or something.
0:02:52I'm not going to do that.
0:02:53Yes.
0:02:54And it was just even we were at Release Notes, and whilst at Release Notes, you received an
0:02:57incredible gift.
0:02:59I did.
0:03:00So our friend Greg, who runs the Agile Tortoise software shop, you know Greg from apps like
0:03:06Drafts, gave me a Newton 120.
0:03:10So he found me in the hallway and was like, "Hey, I have something for you.
0:03:14Make sure you get it from me."
0:03:15then you have a picture of us. Greg's a very big man. I'm a I'm a you know, I'm six feet
0:03:21tall but Greg is enormous. So I look like a child next to him. Holding holding my new
0:03:27Newton message pad 120. So Newton has entered my collection now for the first time in a
0:03:34long time.
0:03:36So are you gonna be working from the Newton Steven?
0:03:39So I had a Newton 2000 in college and I did use it in class.
0:03:47I had a little case and the keyboard and it was like you and your fancy iPad Pro just
0:03:55from the past.
0:03:56But yeah, I used it in school for notes.
0:03:58I had it syncing with my, I guess my PowerBook G4 at the time and so I had my contacts and
0:04:06calendars on it.
0:04:07I had email on it.
0:04:08I got a .Mac email working on it,
0:04:12and it was on the school wireless,
0:04:14and it was pretty awesome.
0:04:15But then I needed some cash to pay off
0:04:18my wife's engagement ring, so I sold it,
0:04:19and I've not had one since.
0:04:21So Greg has reignited my love of the Newton,
0:04:26and we'll see where that leads me.
0:04:30But my thanks to Greg and everyone.
0:04:33People were coming up to me,
0:04:35like wanting to see it and stuff.
0:04:38And this came up because last week I finally got around to posting my collection.
0:04:45So there's a link in the show notes to a GitHub page where I keep an inventory of my collection
0:04:50and the Newton has been added to that list as of the other night.
0:04:54So my thanks to Greg for edging me on in my collection, collecting of things.
0:05:02What are you going to do with all this stuff?
0:05:05More importantly, Steven, at which point do you become a hoarder of stuff?
0:05:13I think it's past that point now.
0:05:16I think hoarding, I think the difference between collecting and hoarding, and please email
0:05:21anyone but me about this, what I'm being ready to say, send Casey Liss all of my email, I
0:05:29- I am, there is a level of discrimination
0:05:34about what goes into the collection.
0:05:38So like someone at least was like,
0:05:39"Hey, I've got this whole PowerBook."
0:05:40And I was like, "Well, it's not like,
0:05:42"I'm not really looking for that."
0:05:43Like there are certain things that I would like to have
0:05:45based on importance to me or importance historically.
0:05:49So, you know, like there's a lot of like performers
0:05:51that no one cares about, I don't care about.
0:05:53I'm not interested in owning any of them.
0:05:55I think a hoarder would be like,
0:05:56"Yes, bring all of the Beige Max to me."
0:05:59But I am trying to build something that is
0:06:01an interesting look at Apple's history
0:06:05and the history of personal computing,
0:06:06not any random thing I can get my hand on.
0:06:10Now there are things in this list
0:06:12that don't really meet either of those,
0:06:14that I have maybe just 'cause I like them,
0:06:17but I'm not just scooping up anything that comes my way.
0:06:20I'm trying to be deliberate about what I add.
0:06:25So as far as what I'm going to do with them,
0:06:27Can't answer that question yet Myke because I don't know
0:06:30Stephen Hackett the first and foremost apple cuter in Memphis, Tennessee
0:06:35It's true. Definitely the biggest here. I would imagine I know a lot of people who collect Apple stuff and I mean there's
0:06:44I'm towards the head of that list at this point. I think I mean there people with more rare stuff than me, but um
0:06:50You know not too many people do this. So what can you say?
0:06:55What else did you get you got something else didn't you?
0:06:58Just goes on and on I
0:07:03Also added an iPod hi-fi
0:07:05Do you remember the iPod hi-fi I was probably too young to remember no
0:07:12Put a wicked we'll put a Wikipedia link in the show notes. This is like a jam box
0:07:17Do you know remember this Federica? No, not at all
0:07:20This was the thing where Steve Jobs got on stage and said that he was replacing all of his audio file equipment
0:07:26And it came out it came at an event with socks and leather cases for the iPod
0:07:33That's right. Very expensive leather cases. Uh-huh like $90 or something
0:07:38It's like Evernote they were selling socks and leather stuff. This was like the Evernote announcement equivalent I think
0:07:47Because the main thing of the main thing of the announcement was the iPod hi-fi like they set up these rooms
0:07:53So they in the demo area they set up like a student's bedroom and stuff like that like so you could see them in the natural
0:08:00Habitat it's crazy
0:08:02So yeah, so it's uh
0:08:06It was designed to use the iPod with a 30-pin dock connector
0:08:10but it used the FireWire power source.
0:08:14And they basically released this,
0:08:15and then like six months later they revved the iPod
0:08:18and ditched the FireWire charging,
0:08:20so newer iPods wouldn't charge on it.
0:08:22But it has an AUX in on it.
0:08:24And Jason Snell has one of these on his desk as well.
0:08:27And it still sounds really good.
0:08:30I've got it hooked up at home.
0:08:31I need to rearrange my desk if I'm gonna keep it there.
0:08:33But it's a really nice,
0:08:37like it's a nice sounding speaker.
0:08:38It looks good.
0:08:39It is shockingly heavy, especially if you put batteries in it.
0:08:42You could put like six, I think it's six,
0:08:44like C or D size batteries in it
0:08:46and like use it out in the yard or whatever.
0:08:48But it has entered the fold as well and it's nice.
0:08:53I want to use it, I gotta find a place for it
0:08:55if it's not my desk somewhere in the house
0:08:57to listen to music on it,
0:08:58'cause it really does sound good for its age
0:09:01and what I paid for it.
0:09:02- I love that you can put batteries in it
0:09:04like walking around with it like a boombox.
0:09:06You could walk around the streets of Memphis
0:09:07with this on your shoulder.
0:09:08Yeah, I do have I think at least one iPod that it will work with so I could definitely
0:09:13just...
0:09:14Of course you do.
0:09:15I could just replace the sound system in my car with this and just have it like strapped
0:09:21in in the passenger seat.
0:09:22You could take it down to like the strip mall and do break dancing or something in front
0:09:25of the Apple store.
0:09:27I think they would really like that.
0:09:29Yeah, it's like look at this guys, iPod Hi-Fi.
0:09:32It seems like something Federico could own.
0:09:35I'm just looking at the picture and I'm amazed by this idea of a...
0:09:40It was an Apple accessory, right?
0:09:42It's like a thing made by Apple.
0:09:44It's not like a third party collaboration or something.
0:09:46It's just made by Apple.
0:09:47Right, they built it.
0:09:48Yeah, and the keynote, which I haven't seen in a long time, but I think he goes into detail
0:09:52about how they crafted the speaker chambers and the type of resin they used to seal it,
0:09:59and all sorts of crazy stuff.
0:10:01I guess I heard about this name, I just never paid attention.
0:10:08I thought it was a version of the iPod, not necessarily like a speaker.
0:10:15So nice, nice, I had no idea Steven.
0:10:17I'm glad I could help educate you.
0:10:20Yeah, sure.
0:10:22How are you, Steven, how are you feeling about your keyboards?
0:10:25Are you still using it?
0:10:26Because I received one, right?
0:10:27I've got my new iMac here.
0:10:29Right.
0:10:30And I do not like it.
0:10:31I really, really don't like it.
0:10:33- I do like it.
0:10:35I'm liking it more and more.
0:10:36I reviewed it like four, after four or five days,
0:10:39but I'm still enjoying it.
0:10:42Of course, at release notes,
0:10:43just had my MacBook Pro and the keyboard on that machine
0:10:46is more like the old Bluetooth keyboard
0:10:48than the new Magic keyboard.
0:10:49And I was typing on the MacBook Pro,
0:10:52and I was like, I wish this was a little firmer.
0:10:53So it's already sort of taken over in my brain
0:10:56that this is the way Apple's keyboard should be
0:10:58and not what's on my laptop.
0:11:00But I'm really still, I'm still real happy with it.
0:11:02So the only thing I still am just struggling with
0:11:06is the arrow keys being different,
0:11:07'cause that's really done by feel for me.
0:11:09And I still kinda, if I'm like navigating
0:11:12around a spreadsheet or something,
0:11:13I will still kinda take a second to remember
0:11:15that the keys are split differently, the arrow keys.
0:11:17But besides that, I'm still got both thumbs up
0:11:22for this thing.
0:11:23- When I was, I've used it a little bit,
0:11:26and it just feels like, I really feel the lack of travel
0:11:30the keys and I don't like it. I'm just not a big fan of it. Like it feels to me
0:11:35like every other keyboard I have feels superior because of that. And I don't
0:11:39know if that's just something that it's like it's built into my brain but I'm
0:11:41just not I'm just not on board of it. Yeah and you've been using the
0:11:45Microsoft sculpt for a while too so you're yeah you know I think if you were
0:11:49coming from the Bluetooth keyboard to this it might be a little bit different
0:11:53but the sculpt is so different then I could definitely see how you would feel
0:11:57that way yeah you used it for a minute I was like nope yeah just bailed on it yeah
0:12:01so it's probably something to do with the sculpt yeah how is the iMac I love
0:12:07it I need and I definitely need more time with it like to really understand
0:12:12the speed of it and stuff but it's a monster and it's my monster and I'm very
0:12:17very happy with it so yeah I I'm I'm enjoying it a lot I love the screen it's
0:12:26super powerful it's it's just everything I wanted and I'm looking at this old Mac
0:12:31Pro and I'm like see you later buddy it's nice having you. And are you using
0:12:36either the the mouse or trackpad with it? I'm not really I mean I have the magic
0:12:42trackpad on the desk but it's nothing to do with the devices I'm just battling a
0:12:46bunch of RSI problems at the moment so I'm kind of switching it up a lot and
0:12:51I'm using the Wacom tablet basically constantly for all of my navigation
0:12:55right now because my right hand is the problem.
0:12:57I'm left handed so I can use the pen tablet
0:12:59in my left hand.
0:13:01And I've used the track pad a little bit
0:13:03and I like that but I'm trying to think
0:13:07of how I can go back to a mouse
0:13:09but I'm still working on that.
0:13:11- Yeah, but with that RSI stuff,
0:13:12you gotta do what you gotta do.
0:13:14We did wanna mention the home app
0:13:18that Federico and I spoke about last week.
0:13:21It was in the show notes but it was a late edition
0:13:23so some people's podcast clients didn't find it.
0:13:27So we're gonna put it in the show notes again this week.
0:13:30Turns out naming an app home makes it difficult
0:13:32to find in the app store.
0:13:33But we've got a link to it and we'll make sure
0:13:36that you can find that this week.
0:13:38I've been playing with it Federico and I,
0:13:40even though like we spoke about my home kit is set up
0:13:42as simpler than yours, it's a nice app.
0:13:45And I feel like it's sort of what,
0:13:47almost what Apple should have shipped.
0:13:49But it's a nice addition, I think,
0:13:53if you're doing a lot of HomeKit stuff,
0:13:54you should definitely check out this app.
0:13:56It's worth the price, for sure.
0:13:59- If I could follow up on last week's episode,
0:14:01'cause obviously I listened to it,
0:14:03HomeKit sounds like a bit of a disaster.
0:14:06- Yep. (laughs)
0:14:07- Well, 'cause this is the type of stuff that,
0:14:09so when it works, it seems like it works great,
0:14:11but this is stuff that you need to work 100% of the time.
0:14:15If I'm gonna trust my iPhone to unlock my door,
0:14:19needs to work. Or if I'm gonna trust my own phone to turn my lights on, like all of those things I
0:14:24want to happen. I don't want them to be like "maybe they'll work sometimes" I'm not interested in that.
0:14:30Well yeah you don't want to be stuck in the dark yelling commands at Siri to turn on your lights.
0:14:34Exactly, like that's silly.
0:14:36Guys I have some follow-up for you speaking of HomeKit and the Apple TV. And so you guys may
0:14:46remember that I complained about the Apple TV not working for remote access for me.
0:14:52And I got some feedback from some listeners telling me to reboot my Apple TV or to sign out
0:14:59from my iCloud account and sign back in. I just didn't want to try that. I was really disappointed.
0:15:05So the other day, two days ago, I was at a birthday party with some friends. And we were,
0:15:13So my friends here in Rome, they usually, we go to this park, like after dinner at midnight,
0:15:21and like we bring a cake, we bring some beers, some cocktails, and we drink in this park.
0:15:30And it's a very, I realize it's a very teenager-y thing to do.
0:15:34Yeah, you sound like a little teenage yob or something.
0:15:38Yeah, it's basically that.
0:15:42And you know, this is Sylvia's hip-hop group, so these guys, they bring a stereo, they put
0:15:49on some music.
0:15:50You should get an iPod Hi-Fi for them.
0:15:53Yeah, for sure.
0:15:54So we were there, we were celebrating, my friends, and some of my friends started drinking,
0:16:02and one of them started drinking quite heavily, and at one point it was beyond the tipsy level
0:16:09of drinking.
0:16:10And we started talking about the Apple TV.
0:16:13And I was okay, I wasn't drinking because I needed to drive.
0:16:20So these guys started saying, "Yeah, what's the Apple TV?"
0:16:24And I started explaining what the Apple TV is.
0:16:27And basically I ended up selling my Apple TV to this drunk person.
0:16:33I had this guy come over at my house at 2am and I gave him my Apple TV for like 50 euros
0:16:44and because I just don't care, I'm like look, I bought this Apple TV last week, I
0:16:49don't use it, I don't want to put it up on eBay because I don't have the time or
0:16:53patience, I don't want to, I just don't need it, I'm going to buy the new one to
0:16:59on my Apple TV and he was all excited by the... apparently he was really into the idea of
0:17:05streaming YouTube videos to his TV with an Apple TV. So I wouldn't say that I took advantage
0:17:11of this person because the following day he texted me back asking for instructions and
0:17:16kind of like tips and tricks. So maybe, you know, in the moment he was kind of more excited
0:17:22than normal to get an Apple TV but he stuck with the decision. So I'm no longer an owner
0:17:28of an Apple TV third generation and I'm waiting for the next one.
0:17:32I just thought you guys might like my story.
0:17:34Well at least now I know the best way to get rid of my Mac Pro.
0:17:38Oh yeah!
0:17:39Just go to a park.
0:17:41Yeah, that's all it takes.
0:17:44Go to a park, get people to drink and start talking about your Apple accessories.
0:17:48You're gonna find someone who is interested in one of those.
0:17:53On that note, let's take our first break for this week's episode and we want to thank Brain
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0:19:40So the Apple TV went for pre-order as we record this yesterday morning. Sort of, how do you
0:19:47feel about this, it sort of just happened, right?
0:19:49Like I was just kinda on Twitter in a waiting room
0:19:52and all of a sudden people were like,
0:19:53"Oh, the Apple TV's for sale now."
0:19:55Like there was no, Apple didn't pre-announce a time.
0:19:58Like there were people on Twitter like,
0:19:59"What time is it gonna be?"
0:20:00They were just like, "It's here and you can order it."
0:20:03And so I did and I believe that Federico, you did as well.
0:20:08What about you, Myke?
0:20:09'Cause you and I were going back and forth on this, right?
0:20:14- I didn't want one.
0:20:15I don't want one, right?
0:20:17Like I don't want one at all.
0:20:19But...
0:20:19I understand you, Myke.
0:20:21Very much.
0:20:22But...
0:20:22I feel like I just had to get one.
0:20:24Because otherwise I'm just gonna be the person on the show going like
0:20:28"I don't know, what does Apple TV do?"
0:20:31So like I spent the money on one because I felt like I needed one
0:20:35so I could sound smart, like a smart person.
0:20:37Rather than dumb, like a dumb person on the shows.
0:20:40So...
0:20:41I bought one.
0:20:42And I still don't want one.
0:20:44So the single reason why you bought one is peer pressure.
0:20:47Yeah actually, that is correct because I heard people texting me
0:20:51and stuff and saying "You should just get one! Come on, you should just get one, you need one!"
0:20:55I really don't. Buy another accessory.
0:20:58I got one, I'm not sure what I'm gonna do with it.
0:21:02I guess I'm gonna play games on my Apple TV because
0:21:07we don't watch American cable stuff of course in Italy.
0:21:12We don't buy our movies and TV shows on iTunes.
0:21:15There's gonna be apps, so maybe I will find
0:21:20a use case for my Apple TV. I just don't imagine myself looking at my TV all day,
0:21:24like actively using apps on my TV. I can see games,
0:21:29so I guess we'll see what kind of games are gonna come out on the apps,
0:21:32sorry for the Apple TV.
0:21:33That's the only reason I can think of. I don't know how I'm
0:21:36gonna use it, but like Myke, I bought one because
0:21:40I didn't want to miss out on all the craziness.
0:21:44And then it was like, "What one do you want to buy?"
0:21:50And it's like 32 gigabytes or 64, right?
0:21:53And it's like, I don't even know why I need one or the other.
0:21:59It just doesn't make sense to me.
0:22:01I don't even know why there's a storage size difference.
0:22:05because there's no idea of knowing which one is the right one for me. Do you see what I mean?
0:22:11I kept just looking at it and I'm like I don't know why I'd want 32 or 64 because I'm not going
0:22:16to be putting any videos on it I would assume. Like it's all going to stream. Like how big are
0:22:19the apps going to be? I don't know. What did you guys get? I went with 32 just because I didn't
0:22:23want one anyway so I wasn't going to pay for the 64. Me too. I just got the base model. I'm like
0:22:31what's the cheapest option for me so I can buy an Apple TV and forget about it
0:22:36and I got the 32 gig model because I
0:22:39again based on my only assumption that the way that I'm gonna use this is for
0:22:43games
0:22:44and knowing myself I play a game on iOS and when I'm done with the game I delete
0:22:49the game I don't care about you know keeping the game installed
0:22:52I guess that I you know 32 gigs will be okay
0:22:56for me in terms of storage
0:22:59What did you do, Steven?
0:23:01- I opted for the bigger of the two.
0:23:03- Oh.
0:23:04- But like we've been talking about,
0:23:06like Apple TV is television in our house,
0:23:09and while I don't see us playing a ton of games,
0:23:11I did not order a game controller,
0:23:13which I wanna ask you guys in a second if you did.
0:23:15I was like, you know what,
0:23:17we plan on keeping this thing for a long time.
0:23:19We've had our old Apple TV a long time,
0:23:21and I don't want to run into issues,
0:23:24especially if my, you know,
0:23:25the kids are gonna be using it,
0:23:26and all of a sudden it's like,
0:23:27I need storage space, they're not gonna know what to do.
0:23:29And it wasn't that much more, so I decided to just go ahead
0:23:33and opt for the bigger of the two.
0:23:36You know, it's not like, to your point, guys,
0:23:39about the streaming bit.
0:23:40It's not like it used to be where the first Apple TV
0:23:44you sync stuff over, like it was basically an iPod
0:23:46plugged into your television.
0:23:47I mean, this thing is designed to stream,
0:23:49and I really think the only thing it's gonna be storing
0:23:51locally is game assets.
0:23:53And of course they're doing, there's a link in the
0:23:55owners to Polygon they're doing the app sizing and the slicing and stuff to pull
0:23:59down assets on demand and imagine if you game a lot you'll use more of that disc
0:24:03but my thought was it's not that much more and I don't want to have any issues
0:24:08with it so I opted for the the bigger of the two sizes but I did not order a game
0:24:13controller what about you guys did you even look at him no I looked at them
0:24:18just because somebody tweeted to them and it was funny I clicked the page and
0:24:22got a 404 but I just looked at it like not with any intention to buy one
0:24:28because I'm kind of not I'm not that interested in it like because I want to
0:24:34see how it how it goes right like I want to see if there are games that require
0:24:40that like a good controller because in theory you know they're saying that
0:24:43every app has to use the standard remote so you'd like to think that all games
0:24:50will be okay to play irrespective of what controller you're using and you
0:24:57know I want to see if there's any games that come out that are even worth a full
0:25:00controller for because like if everything's like Crossy Road then it's
0:25:03gonna be fine obviously it's well I'd like to think it's not gonna be like
0:25:08that it seems that there are developers that are doing more stuff with it but I
0:25:11want to see what kind of the offering is like before I decide to drop the money
0:25:16on that because those things are nearly as expensive as the Apple TV itself.
0:25:20Yeah, I mean right now there are only two controllers for selling Apple's website.
0:25:25There's the SteelSeries Nimbus wireless gaming controller which is 50 bucks and then they
0:25:29have a Guitar Hero guitar for $100.
0:25:32So still less expensive than the $79 replacement Apple TV remote which is just insane to me.
0:25:41But definitely pricey if you're, like you said,
0:25:45if the remote is the common denominator,
0:25:48then I can't agree with you.
0:25:51I don't really see a world in which the gaming controller
0:25:54offers a vastly better experience,
0:25:57because Apple's put that limitation in place.
0:25:59If that limitation wasn't there,
0:26:01if they said, "Well, yeah, if you want to talk to games,
0:26:03"we have game controllers,"
0:26:04then I think developers would have more freedom
0:26:08to sort of go crazy with it.
0:26:09I just don't know I don't know it is interesting too that they're offering a
0:26:14Wii style remote loop so if you are chucking it around you to chunk it into
0:26:19your TV or into your spouse's head and that's $13 on Apple's website which is
0:26:24you know 13 anyway I'm I'm interested maybe in the guitar hero controller yeah
0:26:33right because I need to pick a platform for guitar hero if I want to play it in
0:26:36Guitar Hero and it might be kind of cool on the Apple TV.
0:26:41Yeah.
0:26:42I'm really struggling, like I'm looking on the UK website and I cannot find where this
0:26:48stuff goes.
0:26:49Like where is the stuff?
0:26:50Where are the controllers?
0:26:52Nah.
0:26:53I wish the store would come back.
0:26:55There's one point that I want to make about the software aspect of the app slicing and
0:27:01the on-demand resources.
0:27:03So I was reading through, and I even linked to it, this Polygon article.
0:27:08There's great explanation of how game developers will have to adjust to these new storage features
0:27:14on the Apple TV.
0:27:16And one question that keeps coming back to me is, so the majority of games on iOS are
0:27:23the kind of arcade games where it's a bunch of levels and you either collect points or
0:27:29stars and you proceed through these levels but you can always go back and redo a previous
0:27:36stage if you want to get a higher score or collect all the stars and all the other collectible
0:27:41items that kind of stuff.
0:27:44And with these tvOS software features developers can tag specific assets or levels of a game
0:27:51and say "ok now you need to download this and maybe this level is no longer a priority
0:27:56so you can remove that from local storage and you can download some other things.
0:28:02So what Apple is doing here to me, it seems that it makes sense for story driven games
0:28:08where you proceed in the story and you no longer see a previous stage or area or characters
0:28:16in the game.
0:28:17So like something like an Uncharted game or something like an RPG where you go from like
0:28:25Initial stages and areas and then you proceed through the story and you don't see those places anymore
0:28:31So you can remove them from storage, but because the majority of iOS games
0:28:35Something like I don't know Angry Birds or you know
0:28:38I'm just thinking of all these other games where it's a bunch of worlds and levels and you can always go back
0:28:46So what happens if like I'm playing a game on my Apple TV and I assume that at least for now the majority of Apple
0:28:53TV games will be modeled after iOS games.
0:28:56What happens if I wanna go back to world two
0:29:00and I wanna play level 10,
0:29:03and for some reason it's no longer available,
0:29:05I need to sit back and wait for the level to download.
0:29:09That's what makes me skeptical of developers
0:29:11actually adopting these technologies.
0:29:14Like, I don't know.
0:29:15I'm just, I guess it makes sense for,
0:29:19again, for games with a story where you don't see
0:29:23initial stages or tutorials anymore, but for arcade games organised in levels and based
0:29:30on high scores and points, I just struggle to see how it's going to work in practice.
0:29:36I think the bigger issue, because I mean the level based games, you can assume that the
0:29:40majority of people aren't going back and playing level, like, I mean, there will be people
0:29:47that do it and when you do that you just have to wait, right? If you want to go back and
0:29:50play world 2 level 10 you'll just have to wait for the you have to wait for it
0:29:55to download I think the bigger problem is in like open world or bigger games
0:30:01like how could they come to the Apple TV like something like a Grand Theft Auto
0:30:06because you've got to be able like that would have to be some really really
0:30:10impressive content delivery like to be able to load the specific part of the
0:30:15world that you need to be in at a certain period of time that's that type
0:30:18game feels like it's kind of walled off from being able to do this. Although it
0:30:22does say that it can kind of download two gigabytes of levels, right? Like, so
0:30:26maybe you could just tag the game map as two gigabytes and it downloads that. I'm
0:30:31sure that there'll be developers that work their way around it, but it does
0:30:34seem to pose some, just some difficult, not difficult, different design decisions
0:30:39in the minds of developers as to how they're going to be able to effectively
0:30:43implement these changes. You also get an additional 20 gigs of storage in
0:30:48iCloud, so maybe 22 gigs in total will be okay for game developers who want to do that
0:30:54kind of game on Apple TV.
0:30:57I don't know.
0:30:58It's just a different, and the Polygon article does a great job at explaining this, just
0:31:02a different way of structuring a game for a TV.
0:31:07I really don't know what kind of game experiences we'll see on the TBOS App Store.
0:31:15The demo from the Apple event was not a good one.
0:31:19So we'll see.
0:31:19I have no idea what to expect.
0:31:22- So something interesting while we're talking about apps,
0:31:25a friend of mine who is going through app review right now,
0:31:30who has been going around and around through app review,
0:31:33it's kind of anecdotally said to me
0:31:35that it feels like that Apple's app review for the tvOS
0:31:40is kind of like original iPhone levels of picky
0:31:43about human interface stuff.
0:31:45like way harsher than the watch for example.
0:31:48So it's, and this has been punctuated by other people,
0:31:51like for example, Daniel Jelkirk got his app rejected
0:31:54for not being useful enough,
0:31:55and he was building a white noise app for the Apple TV.
0:31:59So it's interesting to me if they are being,
0:32:02and it does seem like, you know,
0:32:03from stuff that we're seeing,
0:32:04that Apple are being quite particular
0:32:06with the type of stuff that they're letting on the TV.
0:32:08And it makes me wonder, how are they viewing this platform?
0:32:12Like, are they viewing it,
0:32:13like it's a very, very important platform?
0:32:15Are they trying to curate more heavily?
0:32:17Like why are they doing this?
0:32:18- I mean, I think that a lot of that has to do
0:32:24with the interface being so new
0:32:26and Apple really pushing it as a new platform
0:32:28that they want only the best experiences.
0:32:31Someone, the future of apps, television,
0:32:34the first couple apps you download for your television
0:32:36are cruddy, that doesn't really set off
0:32:40in the right direction.
0:32:41It doesn't put their best foot forward.
0:32:42And so I think Apple would rather be hard on developers
0:32:45and designers and saying,
0:32:47"Hey, you know, you really need to fit into our vision
0:32:49"of what this thing is."
0:32:50Then flood the App Store on day one
0:32:53and have a bunch of garbage in there.
0:32:56- Yeah, it's,
0:32:58because they didn't seem to be this way
0:33:01with the watch though.
0:33:02- Yeah, exactly.
0:33:03- So is the Apple TV more important than the watch?
0:33:07- You know, it may be that because watch apps
0:33:09were bundled inside iPhone apps,
0:33:11that they felt less free to knock people around over it.
0:33:15Well, the Apple TV apps are sort of the separate new thing.
0:33:18But I think they should have been harder on Watch apps.
0:33:23But at the same time, all of Watch app conversation
0:33:27has to be filtered through the fact that Gen 1 Watch apps
0:33:31were inherently crippled by Apple's technology.
0:33:34And so maybe they knew that, hey, you know,
0:33:39all this stuff we gotta do
0:33:40and talk back and forth to the iPhone,
0:33:43we gotta give developers a lot of leeway here
0:33:47because we didn't give them very good tools
0:33:49and they're kinda doing it in the right hand.
0:33:51- Yeah, like you don't have a right to be picky
0:33:55because the software framework that you gave us,
0:33:58it's kinda, it's really not a good one.
0:34:02I understand that argument.
0:34:03I think it's the one that makes the most sense in my mind,
0:34:06whereas with the TV App Store, it's a new thing,
0:34:09separate apps, it's not dependent on an iPhone, so they think they can be picky and to really
0:34:17choose the kind of apps that they want to showcase, at least right now.
0:34:21I really don't know what to think, again, no idea.
0:34:24I know that there's a bunch of, I'm getting emails this week about all these new Apple
0:34:30TV apps coming and it's all over the place, you know, and there's like, there's apps for
0:34:37to set your TV with a particular ambient music or like there's some iPhone and iPad apps
0:34:44that are getting Apple TV versions and I'm like why are you making an Apple TV version
0:34:49of this? It doesn't make any sense when it's on your iPhone and iPad and even the Mac.
0:34:55Why does it need to be on the television? So at least judging from my email inbox it
0:35:00It seems that there's, at least from, you know, it's a very limited pool of data, but
0:35:07it's the same story with the iPad, with the watch, with the Apple TV.
0:35:13There's some apps that will make sense on the TV, some other apps are just conversions
0:35:17from existing platforms that don't necessarily make sense on a TV, which Apple wants it to
0:35:24be a new, a whole new platform, a whole new ecosystem, and I don't think that, you know,
0:35:29making the utility that makes sense on the iPhone to bring it to the TV. I don't think
0:35:34it makes sense. I guess we'll see. I don't know. My girlfriend is making fun of me for
0:35:41buying another Apple TV.
0:35:43It does seem a bit crazy because you just bought one.
0:35:46Considering the experience of buying an old Apple TV and selling it to a drunk person,
0:35:52but maybe this one will be better. Hey, maybe it'll actually work with HomeKit.
0:35:58I'm intrigued about it but I'm not excited about it.
0:36:03So it should arrive before next week and I'm interested to see what type of stuff is going
0:36:08to be on the platform just so I can, as usual, see what developers envisioned as being an
0:36:13Apple TV app.
0:36:16Like I saw Daniel Pascoe of BlackPixel tweeted about NetNewswire today and it just is a nice
0:36:26looking RSS reader for the TV which is an interesting use case, right? You get
0:36:33your news in the morning or something by looking at what comes up on the screen.
0:36:37But it's just I'm just I just don't know if this is a platform that I would use
0:36:44very much. I haven't really got a sense for that yet and I don't know if that's
0:36:49just me because there seems to be a lot of people that are really excited about
0:36:52this so I think it's just my own use case. I think it's because we don't have
0:36:57kids Myke. Yeah I think that is a big part of it. So we should we should we
0:37:03should have kids to enjoy the Apple TV. Yeah that's to ensure you get the
0:37:06entire experience. That's a step way past buying an Apple TV so you can talk about
0:37:11it on a podcast. Having a child so you can test Apple products for a podcast.
0:37:15That's commitment. Your life decisions but that doesn't seem like a great
0:37:20reason to become a parent? I don't know. What do I know? I don't know. Micah, I
0:37:28agree with you that there are some apps like out there that we've
0:37:33heard about or people are talking about that I don't see myself using but at the
0:37:37same time like I think anytime there's a new platform especially one that's so
0:37:42radically different like I think there's a lot of opportunity for some exciting
0:37:46stuff we haven't seen elsewhere like things like status what's the status
0:37:52board app from panic whatever it's called status status board isn't it is
0:37:57it is called status board things you know things like that like the Apple TV
0:38:07is great like in the living room but there are a lot of them used in
0:38:10businesses and in schools and stuff for just having a way to get content onto a
0:38:15a display and so for that sort of use case I think there's a lot of interesting
0:38:18things that developers could do turning the Apple TV plus a television into some
0:38:23sort of smart display that can do could do more. Probably not gonna say for my
0:38:28TV with remote and read my hundreds of our subscriptions but I do think there's
0:38:32an interesting market for integrating the TV more into like everyday life
0:38:38because I think us like the three of us like a lot of nerds like we don't like
0:38:44The TV is not a big part of my life.
0:38:46Definitely not a big part of my work life.
0:38:48We'll sit down and watch a movie or something,
0:38:49but at no point am I standing in front of my television
0:38:53for work or integrating that into my workflow.
0:38:56And maybe there's an opportunity there for the Apple TV
0:38:59to make the television itself smarter
0:39:01and more useful in work environments.
0:39:04And from that angle, I think the Apple TV is pretty exciting
0:39:07as far as the platform goes.
0:39:10- Here's another potential problem for me
0:39:12where maybe I don't see the Apple TV is that exciting. The TV that I'll be
0:39:16plugging the Apple TV in is on the same desk as my iMac. So like at that
0:39:23point it's like hmm you know like that smart stuff like could
0:39:29probably just access most of it on my Mac. So that might be part of my
0:39:33problem here. You must have a big desk. It's a very big desk. Oh nice. Yeah but
0:39:40But you know me that's like that's you but I mean I think a lot of people I know I'm saying that's like why I think
0:39:46It might I might not be excited about it
0:39:48I know that the majority of people don't have the TVs in and their max on in the same physical location, but I do
0:39:54Gotcha do people actually watch TV during the day. This is a harness question. I have no idea of course they do otherwise
0:40:01It was a programming
0:40:03You know we don't but lots and lots and lots of people do mm-hmm
0:40:08Let's take a break and then we talk about Steve Jobs movie that none of us have seen.
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0:43:26So the Steve Jobs movie is out.
0:43:28Now this is the one of many but this was the one that was meant to be the good one I suppose
0:43:33right so this is the Aaron Sorkin movie with Michael Fassbender playing Steve Jobs.
0:43:40However it has bombed in the in the in the cinema.
0:43:44So I give a quote from Variety.
0:43:47So Steve Jobs debuted to a measly $7.3 million in box office receipts, only a little more
0:43:53than the $6.7 million that Jobs, a critically derided film about the iPhone with Ashton
0:43:58Kutcher made in its initial weekend.
0:44:01Going into the weekend, some tracking suggested that the picture would do as much as $19 million,
0:44:05so it was really kind of undersold.
0:44:09Universal are going to continue strongly marketing the movie, and they're going to keep putting
0:44:13money into it.
0:44:14Steve Jobs cost 30 million dollars to make and Variety estimate that it's going to cost
0:44:21that much as well to market. So this is a potential big hole that is... is it Universal?
0:44:30This is a Universal movie? Yeah, so this is a pretty big hole that Universal found themselves in
0:44:35and it seemed to be reviewed pretty well by movie websites. There's like potential Oscar talk
0:44:43around this movie. So why has this happened?
0:44:48I'd say from the general public perspective, just overhearing
0:44:55people, there's sort of this idea of another Steve Jobs movie.
0:44:59We just had one and that one is pretty well known for not being very good.
0:45:03So I think people may assume that this one wouldn't be
0:45:06any different. I think there's sort of a Steve Jobs overload and
0:45:13out in the world right now and we can get to why nerds don't like it but I
0:45:18Can't help but think it's like a little too soon after the last one to really be seen in a different light
0:45:24I think the failure of the the previous movie
0:45:27Has not done much to help to help this one
0:45:31Can I can I just be that guy I don't know the actor who's this person Michael Fassbender
0:45:40He's okay. You might not know him. The rest of the world knows him. He's yeah, all the x-men movies
0:45:45He's as famous as DiCaprio
0:45:47Maybe now like I mean if you look at some of the stuff that well Michael Fassbender is currently in more
0:45:54Blockbuster movies than DiCaprio is because Fassbender is working more. It doesn't sound this famous as DiCaprio
0:46:02Well, DiCaprio is historically famous
0:46:06Yeah, I don't know. I'm not a movie person, but I know DiCaprio and I know-
0:46:10Well then you're the wrong person to make this decision.
0:46:12I'm just saying, I'm not a movie person, but I know who DiCaprio is, I know who Christian Bale is.
0:46:18He's the guy who played Batman, right? And I never heard of this fast bender.
0:46:24Okay, well he has been nominated for an Oscar, if that helps you.
0:46:26Oh yeah, sure, sure.
0:46:27He was in Prometheus, he's been in the X-Men movies.
0:46:29Just saying, you movie people get upset really easily.
0:46:32He's gonna play the Assassin's Creed movie?
0:46:34Oh, there's gonna be an Assassin's Creed movie. I bet that's gonna be great. Well, I know it's real
0:46:39Oh, no, it's gonna suck. But this is just my kind of
0:46:42Showing to you that he is a very very big Hollywood star. Okay, so just trust me on that
0:46:49So if I if I ask my any friend of my you Michael Fassbender is they're gonna say yes, we know Michael Fassbender
0:46:54I can't guarantee that all of your friends will know but this this is
0:46:59Find the drunk guy in the park look on his ice cake Federico
0:47:03I'm gonna put his IMDB into the chat room right so you can go joke and I'll put it in the show notes
0:47:07And you can see the massive long list of movies
0:47:09This guy's been in in the last 10 years and how many he has coming up. Let's just let's just say he is a very big movie
0:47:16star
0:47:17X man
0:47:18Yeah, it does superhero stuff, which I don't follow
0:47:21I know but you also have to remember that superhero movies are the biggest movies now
0:47:27So you don't you don't know him because for whatever reason but the issue is not the the actor did the cost
0:47:34Right because like there's well like the the cost of this movie goes on to have
0:47:39Has is it Seth Rogen? Oh
0:47:42Yeah, another guy Kate Winslet and Jeff Daniels. They're like the four main actors in this movie
0:47:48So they got a big cost. It's like I look at this and think it's interesting
0:47:52I mean, I I hadn't really considered the Steve Jobs overload thing, but that makes sense
0:47:57like but I was thinking about the social network and how well that did
0:48:00Right, which was just a story about Facebook
0:48:03Written by the same guy and it is really interesting to me that for some reason this one just hasn't
0:48:09grabbed people when Steve Jobs is a
0:48:13More interesting figure to the rest of the world. I think then Mark Zuckerberg was at that time. Yeah, so I think that's where
0:48:21the strife in our community spills over so if you are
0:48:26an Apple fan or Steve Jobs fan or whatever
0:48:28It's pretty well known again. None of us have seen it. It is on my calendar actually for tomorrow night, hopefully, but
0:48:35From from listening to people and reading the views and whatnot
0:48:40Sorkin took a lot of liberties with this story and and that's fine
0:48:45like I think like we spoke about a couple weeks ago if you're going to make a movie you have artistic license to
0:48:51Change things to make it a better movie and generally I like Aaron Sorkin stuff
0:48:55but it seems like if you mess with the Steve Jobs story,
0:49:00there's a certain section of the Apple community
0:49:05that's gonna get upset about that,
0:49:07and that spills over, right?
0:49:09Someone's gonna go search for a Steve Jobs movie review,
0:49:12and they might come across someone who is really unhappy
0:49:16that Evan Sorkin really took big liberties with his life
0:49:18and really changed things to make what he thought
0:49:21was a better screenplay.
0:49:24And so maybe there's some of that bleed of, you know,
0:49:26nerds are unhappy about it and that has sort of seeped out
0:49:29into the general public.
0:49:31I think that any Jobs movie or any Apple,
0:49:37it's kind of such a movie, from this point forward,
0:49:40has to have the blessing of the community to do well.
0:49:45Because there's a lot of us, right?
0:49:47And there's a lot of people in this community
0:49:49who are unhappy with it and that's gonna get around.
0:49:51Like I'm only gonna go see it
0:49:52so I can do follow up next week.
0:49:54I'm not particularly interested in seeing it at this point
0:49:56and I'm going in knowing that I'm probably going
0:50:00to be disappointed for a bunch of different reasons.
0:50:02And that hurts it too, that word of mouth gets around
0:50:06and once it does I would imagine it's really hard
0:50:08to counter that no matter how many millions of dollars
0:50:12you can pour into marketing.
0:50:14I think it's a shame, I mean I think Aaron Sorkin
0:50:17does good work and I think that this could've been
0:50:19really interesting movie if he had done gone about it differently but I wonder
0:50:24that so much story tweaking just really set the wrong tone for everybody.
0:50:28It doesn't come out here until like the middle of November.
0:50:31It should have been with DiCaprio I think.
0:50:34So yeah that was the thing right so DiCaprio I would have I'm a big fan of
0:50:38would love to have seen him but he seemed the reports are that he got
0:50:43basically basically Lorraine Powell Jobs called him and said don't do it and the
0:50:47the same for Christian Bale as well but the thing was it seems like it doesn't
0:50:53matter who the actor was the story was always gonna be the same like it could
0:50:57have been however it was acted isn't the issue like most people's issues seems to
0:51:00be the way that it was structured in the story that was told because like I mean
0:51:04there's a great episode of the control Walt delete podcast from the verge which
0:51:08is actually becoming one of my favorite shows I actually really really like this
0:51:11show and in it Walt Mossberg basically expresses his extreme unhappiness about
0:51:18the way that the movie portrays Jobs and he tells some stories of his own to try
0:51:23and highlight what why he thinks that the movie is bad and he doesn't like it
0:51:28fictionalized things to a point and feels like overall and a lot of people
0:51:31said this it doesn't paint a full picture of Steve Jobs like it stops at
0:51:36the iPod right so it misses out the best kind of all of Jobs's best work right
0:51:41which came afterwards, like the iPhone, the iPad,
0:51:43and everything else that came after it.
0:51:45And this makes me wonder, like looking at this movie,
0:51:49all the stuff that's come before it,
0:51:50the books that have come out,
0:51:51is there ever going to be a fair and balanced account
0:51:56of Steve Jobs' life?
0:51:58Like, is this ever going to happen?
0:52:00Is it too late now for us to get a scenario
0:52:03in which everyone is happy?
0:52:05I think it's not gonna happen ever,
0:52:08because we just don't have the resources or materials.
0:52:10- I guess that in most cases,
0:52:14normal life doesn't make for a great movie.
0:52:17- Well, I mean, yeah, but mine and your lives maybe, but...
0:52:22So, right, so have you seen "The Social Network"?
0:52:25Because that is a really great movie.
0:52:27However, in the same issue,
0:52:29Zuckerberg says that a lot of it is falsified.
0:52:33Like it's not true, or like is fictionalized.
0:52:37So like, this kind of got me wondering though,
0:52:39will there ever even be a book?
0:52:41'Cause books can go into more detail, right?
0:52:44And it seems like the two books that have come out,
0:52:48kind of the biggest books that have come out,
0:52:49like the Isaacson book and the Schindler book,
0:52:52there still seems to be a lot of people
0:52:54that are unhappy with it.
0:52:55Like the Schindler book seems to have gotten
0:52:56Apple's blessing, but still people seem to not be happy.
0:52:59Like I'm just thinking at this point,
0:53:01there's never gonna be an account of Steve Jobs' life,
0:53:05which is gonna make everyone happy
0:53:07because the man isn't alive anymore to do it himself.
0:53:11- I think that the second book you referenced,
0:53:13Becoming Steve Jobs, is between those two,
0:53:16a much better book.
0:53:17But even it, there's this problem
0:53:20in telling the story, right,
0:53:21that the story is still ongoing from the Apple perspective.
0:53:24So the Islaxton book, this movie,
0:53:27Even Becoming Steve Jobs, they are weighted towards
0:53:31Steve's first time at Apple and then at Next
0:53:35and then Pixar, Pixar X is a pretty big player
0:53:38in the Becoming Steve Jobs book
0:53:39and was my favorite sections of the book.
0:53:42But telling the story of Steve Jobs' return to Apple,
0:53:46a lot of that is still locked up from a company perspective.
0:53:49A lot of people who can tell those stories
0:53:52aren't able to because they're still in them.
0:53:55And so I wouldn't say never,
0:53:57but I would say it's going to be a while.
0:53:59I mean, I do think there's an opportunity
0:54:01for 10, 15, 20 years down the road
0:54:03for a book that does interview people
0:54:06who were there with Jobs and who have been gone
0:54:08for a long time from Apple or as Apple has moved on,
0:54:13those people are more willing to talk about things.
0:54:15But right now, I'm sure there's really interesting stories
0:54:18locked up in Jobs' second time at Apple
0:54:21that no one knows because the people who are part
0:54:24of the stories just can't talk about them.
0:54:26And maybe those people will never talk.
0:54:28I don't know if someone like Phil Shiller's
0:54:29ever gonna have a book written about his career.
0:54:32But I do think there's an opportunity for that,
0:54:34but not anytime soon.
0:54:36And so I'm hesitant to say any more about Job's life
0:54:40or history of Apple or any of that sort of content,
0:54:43any sort of that stuff,
0:54:45until we sort of move past that era at Apple.
0:54:50And that's happening now,
0:54:52but all those same people are there, you know.
0:54:55Cook and Apple's board have done a really good job
0:54:57at keeping the executive team basically the same as under Jobs and so all those
0:55:03same players are still involved. Until that's not true I don't see the
0:55:07opportunity for somebody to come up with something new that is really powerful in any new way.
0:55:12Federico I want to ask you. Do you think we need this? Do we need a story of Jobs's life which is more full and has the stuff that we don't know?
0:55:24Well, it depends if you need a story or if you need to be entertained by a story.
0:55:30I guess that's what I try to ask myself.
0:55:32Do I want to know the truth or do I want to spend a couple of hours in front of a screen
0:55:36and be told a story that makes me feel good about my day or my evening?
0:55:41I think we need a story and we need more people who actually do the work necessary to document
0:55:52a person's life.
0:55:54I'm not sure we need any more entertainment about Steve Jobs.
0:55:58That's what I think.
0:55:59And again, I'm not a particularly knowledgeable movie person, but I have always been fascinated
0:56:07by Steve Jobs as a figure, as a businessman, as a creative, you know.
0:56:12And I guess I'm not really interested in Steve Jobs as a family man because we all have our
0:56:20own flaws and we we all make our own mistakes. I don't really feel the need to be entertained
0:56:27by the story of a man who has not a good relationship with his daughter, you know?
0:56:33I agree with you to a point there actually. All of the stuff about the family stuff,
0:56:42it's interesting in painting the fuller picture of him, but I don't know if that's something that
0:56:48needs to be exposed as much as it is. Like all of that stuff I don't know if it
0:56:53informs his work but I think that if you want to get a if
0:56:57you want an account on Steve Jobs you have that account because
0:57:00he's responsible in some part for some of the most important things to happen
0:57:04in technology and therefore shaping the world and I think a lot of that just
0:57:07comes from his decision making and the way that he did the work that he
0:57:11did and the way that he approached that and I don't know if stories about him
0:57:17not wanting to have anything to do with his first daughter really helps with that account.
0:57:22Yeah. Again, I would rather... if I wanted to hear about Steve Jobs' personal life,
0:57:33I would rather get that directly from the source, you know? From Lisa or from other people,
0:57:40not by a movie director. I think part of the problem that we're always going to have here
0:57:46is Jobs didn't want to share it in the first place so I don't think there's we're gonna get a ton more
0:57:51than this because people that truly care about him it's it's very likely that they will not share
0:57:57their stories so it feels like what we have like the Isaacson book that's as much as you're gonna
0:58:03get from a personal perspective yeah that that's how I look at it now it's like obviously his
0:58:07family is never gonna write a book about him like Johnny Ives never gonna write a book about him
0:58:13because they all care about his privacy because they cared about the man.
0:58:17So it feels like at this point what we have is what we're gonna get, to me anyway.
0:58:22And I think I'm okay with it, you know?
0:58:24I watched the Jobs movie with Ashton.
0:58:29I guess it was okay.
0:58:32If by okay you mean it's what you expect, you know, from this type of movie.
0:58:38I don't know.
0:58:41people are making a big deal here, maybe because Aaron Sorkin is a big name in the industry, I guess.
0:58:47I would like to see more books and more, you know, documents and interviews, not, you know,
0:58:55stories like this. That's my two cents as a non-movie expert or person in general.
0:59:01Any from what say on this? No, I think that pretty much covers it. I'm gonna go see it
0:59:05and maybe we can follow up if I have any interesting comments or when you guys see it, but
0:59:10but I expect mostly just to be sad.
0:59:13So we'll see how that goes.
0:59:15- When does it come out on iTunes?
0:59:18- I expect it will probably,
0:59:20I think it might be before the end of the year now because.
0:59:23- Okay.
0:59:24- Well, 'cause if it's not gonna do well in the cinema,
0:59:26then they'll release it quick.
0:59:27- I don't go to the cinema, it's gross.
0:59:29- Yeah, it is gross.
0:59:30Can you guys see a world where Apple just doesn't let it
0:59:33in iTunes, they're like, sorry Universal or whoever.
0:59:35- That's an interesting thought, right?
0:59:38- They might say no, they could say no.
0:59:40- Could they?
0:59:42- Sure they could.
0:59:43- If that happens, it would definitely make it a follow up.
0:59:46- Yeah. - Yeah.
0:59:47- I mean that really would be like a stamp
0:59:48of disapproval from Apple.
0:59:49Like that's the biggest one I could think.
0:59:52That's really the strongest weapon they have against it
0:59:55is just saying we're not gonna sell it.
0:59:57Contrast that with the guys who wrote "Becoming Steve Jobs"
1:00:02being interviewed by John Gruber in an Apple store.
1:00:04Like you can't really get farther apart
1:00:07the way that Apple views something. A couple of executives tweeted about that
1:00:10book as well didn't they? They did I think Q and Schiller both actually. Yeah.
1:00:15Yeah they're the only one on Twitter. They're big Twitter users. That also
1:00:20shines a light in the opposite direction for me. It's like if it's so endorsed by
1:00:24Apple like is it fair and I don't know. You know like I feel like there's no
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1:02:46So earlier or this week or late last week our friend Fraser Spears from the out of school
1:02:51podcast got some time with an iPad Pro at a private event in London. I'm just going
1:02:58to assume it was Myke who just put "Sci" in parentheses in the show notes.
1:03:03No, it was mine. It was yours.
1:03:05You guys seem to be sad about that. Really some really interesting tidbits of information
1:03:12that he has shared with people about that. Federica, you collected some of your favorites.
1:03:19you want to walk us through these?
1:03:21- Yeah, so in what the kids call a tweet storm these days,
1:03:26Fraser tweeted a couple of interesting details
1:03:30about the iPad Pro.
1:03:31The first one that jumps to mind is,
1:03:34he tried the iPad Pro with the pencil,
1:03:36with the stylus made by Apple,
1:03:38and he says, as many other people have said so far,
1:03:41it's got the best polymer ejection he's seen in iOS to date.
1:03:46Fraser has tried many drawing apps and silences over the years. He's probably the person who
1:03:53started the whole iPad deployment in school, the one-to-one program for pupils in a school
1:04:02in Scotland. He knows what he's talking about when it comes to iPad and drawing and giving
1:04:09accessories to iPad users. So he says that the pencil feels great, the polymer ejection
1:04:14really works as advertised. He got to try the stylus with Paper by 53 which has a couple
1:04:21of optimizations on the iPad Pro. He says that it takes advantage of the bigger screen,
1:04:29we don't know how because there's no screenshots. He also tried the pencil on a couple of Adobe
1:04:34apps and apparently it works really great. And as many other people have said, you know,
1:04:42or Disney artists it works well so that sounds exciting there's not gonna be a
1:04:49smart case for the iPad Pro there's going to be a pro size smart cover
1:04:54there's going to be the smart keyboard there's not there's not going to be a
1:04:58least initially pro version of the smart case to which I ask the question does
1:05:04anyone even remember the iPad smart case? Some people do use them unlike them like
1:05:10I think the reason, well yeah because Fraser put a little sadness emoji, I think he wants
1:05:17a smart case and I can see why for him with what he uses and what he does with iPads,
1:05:23so putting them in schools and stuff, having a case that goes all the way around with the
1:05:27smart cover functionality I guess could be really good.
1:05:30If you want to keep the device protected, that one maybe seems like the best option
1:05:35because you also get the benefit of the smart cover.
1:05:38I would never use a smart case. I worry less about about breaking my
1:05:45iPad by dropping it even though in theory it's probably easier to drop
1:05:49because like the weight and the center of gravity and stuff. I'm almost
1:05:53convinced that I will on multiple occasions flip my iPad Pro over
1:05:59accidentally. I'm holding it in the bottom corner and I hit something
1:06:02on the top and it just flips. Because I could just imagine the center of
1:06:06gravity being all kinds of crazy on a device that big, but we'll wait and see about that.
1:06:10Yeah, it's sad that the weight distribution on the iPad Pro is not as bad as you'd imagine
1:06:18given the bigger size.
1:06:19It doesn't feel as lightweight as an iPad Air 2, and it doesn't know if you're going
1:06:24to be able to hold it with one hand in between your thumb and your index finger for prolonged
1:06:30periods of time.
1:06:31Apple wants you to believe that you will be capable of doing that based on marketing images.
1:06:36I don't know what kind of hand training this Apple marketing people go through to
1:06:42shoot those photos.
1:06:44But it says it's most likely you're going to be resting the iPad Pro on your arm when
1:06:51you use it.
1:06:52You know, when you want to hold it upright, important maybe.
1:06:55You're just going to rest it on your arm so you can use it.
1:06:58We'll see.
1:06:59The smart keyboard, it's more similar to the Logitech keys to go external keyboard, which
1:07:08means I think it's similar to a surface keyboard.
1:07:13So it's like there's no travel to the keys, you just press and it's not like a physical
1:07:20keyboard that you guys like.
1:07:22There's no travel here.
1:07:23It's like a single very thin surface and you just press the keys.
1:07:28like a membrane type thing.
1:07:30Yeah.
1:07:30I know it's not that.
1:07:31I know because Apple are using those like--
1:07:34does that new butterfly switch.
1:07:35But I guess because of the covering over the top,
1:07:39it maybe even feels like it moves less.
1:07:42Yeah, that makes me sad to hear.
1:07:44I have all of this.
1:07:46And I don't know what I was expecting, but there
1:07:49are iPad keyboards out there that
1:07:51do have a clicky feel to them and do feel like real keyboards.
1:07:55And this seems like it's not that thing.
1:07:58And especially, I want to see how long it will take companies like Logitech or maybe
1:08:03Belkin to make keyboards with actual keys that connect with the smart connector to the
1:08:10iPad Pro.
1:08:11I know that Logitech already has an announcement, I haven't seen any by other companies.
1:08:16So I'm curious to see how long it will take third party manufacturers to take advantage
1:08:22of that piece of hardware.
1:08:25Speaking of software, it says, as we suspected, there's no change to the springboard.
1:08:32So the home screen of the iPad Pro is a bigger version of the traditional iPad home screen.
1:08:37The only change is that instead of 6 or 7 apps that you see in the command tab switcher,
1:08:46you get 8 on the iPad Pro.
1:08:48So I guess, yay for bigger screen.
1:08:52There's no other change, really.
1:08:53The layout of the apps is the same, folders are the same, control center, I'm interested
1:08:59in seeing how it will scale in landscape mode.
1:09:05We mentioned this a couple of episodes ago, we were talking about the iPad Pro.
1:09:08I think there will have to be changes to the home screen there, you know, to fully take
1:09:14advantage of the bigger screen.
1:09:17Already the iPad home screen feels like a wasted opportunity compared to the iPhone.
1:09:22I can imagine on the Pro, again, Control Center, I want to see what they do there.
1:09:27Because I haven't seen any screenshots or videos with that specific portion of iOS.
1:09:33I think the thing that surprises me the most about this is that you don't just do the obvious,
1:09:37which is just put more icons on the home screen.
1:09:40Yeah, yeah.
1:09:41Or something, I mean...
1:09:43Something, exactly.
1:09:44Yeah, like I know I'd like to see more stuff done with it, but like, you know, the obvious
1:09:47one is just you've got the space put the icons on at least rather than just
1:09:52making the gaps between them bigger. Yeah I mean compared to an iPad mini it being
1:09:57the same really is pretty ridiculous I mean the iPad Air 2 already that home
1:10:02screen feels like you said better go wasted in a way I was really hoping they
1:10:06would do more with that and you know maybe it's that it's coming out with
1:10:11iOS I guess 9.2 so it is sort of mid-cycle for an iOS release and they're
1:10:15not, you know, they're not gonna drastically change it at this point, so I
1:10:17guess, fingers crossed, for next year, which is like everyone who follows Apple
1:10:22like their favorite saying, like maybe next year they'll fix it. Yeah, I mean I
1:10:25think, I think maybe this is too early to start talking about this, but you'd kind
1:10:31of expect, and I know Federico you were kind of going along these lines in
1:10:35your review, that iOS 10 should be another big change, because it's 10. Yeah.
1:10:43I know it's maybe silly just because it's 10 but historically 10 has been an occasion
1:10:52for Apple to introduce changes.
1:10:54Like if you're gonna do something big anywhere.
1:10:58They replaced their entire operating system on the Mac.
1:11:01Yeah, twice!
1:11:02Because Mac OS X and then with Yosemite they changed the whole interface.
1:11:10They like the round number.
1:11:16What else do we have here?
1:11:17So multitasking is going to be more comfortable on the iPad Pro because as we also imagined,
1:11:23using two apps at the same time kind of feels like having two iPads in portrait mode at
1:11:29the same time.
1:11:30So it makes sense.
1:11:31Bigger iPad, bigger apps in multitasking, more comfortable to use because you can see
1:11:37more of both apps, not necessarily just one app. So I'm excited to see how it works there.
1:11:43Federico, I have a quick question for you.
1:11:46Okay.
1:11:46Have you ever used two iPads at the same time?
1:11:51You know, actually I have.
1:11:52[Laughter]
1:11:53And I'll tell you, actually it's very nice timing for this question, Myke, because today
1:12:01Apple will announce their fiscal results. There's a Q4 2015 earnings call and I remember
1:12:08last year, or maybe two years ago, I didn't have Workflow on my iPad, the app for iOS
1:12:18automation. And so I used Silvia's iPad to update my WordPress article on one iPad and
1:12:29do the image conversion and upload on another iPad.
1:12:32That was before multitasking, before extensions,
1:12:35before workflow.
1:12:37So I actually pulled a Dave Morin
1:12:40and I used two iPads at the same time, you know?
1:12:43- That is fantastic.
1:12:46- Now, of course, with multitasking, it's just perfect
1:12:48because I can use Excel with workflow at the same time.
1:12:53So I can pull in my charts, upload them,
1:12:57convert them with the extension, it's just amazing.
1:13:02And I will do that tonight.
1:13:04- Can we talk about that a little bit next week,
1:13:06because I'm interested about why you use Excel and stuff,
1:13:09but we don't have the time for it this week.
1:13:11- Okay, sure, sure.
1:13:13- When you said that, I was like, I wonder why Excel?
1:13:15So I'm gonna put that in for next week.
1:13:17- Okay.
1:13:18So I just wanna conclude with Fraser as a comment
1:13:23on what you expect my reaction to be for the iPad Pro.
1:13:29And he says "You're gonna flip for this device".
1:13:34That's his comment.
1:13:36I kinda wanna know from YouTube because I don't know what to think here anymore.
1:13:43I guess I just cannot wait to try one.
1:13:48And it's not that the iPad R2 doesn't satisfy me anymore because I can get work done on
1:13:56a daily basis and it's been to date, the R2, my most used iOS device ever.
1:14:03The things that I've done on the iPad R2 I haven't done on any other iPhone or iPad before.
1:14:09So I'm super super happy with the iPad R2.
1:14:13But I think with the Pro I can do a lot more, especially for multi-casking and this bigger
1:14:20kind of canvas idea.
1:14:23But I'm concerned about the portability, holding the iPad with my hands, which I also do a
1:14:30lot when I walk around the house or work from, I don't know, when I'm waiting at the doctor's
1:14:37office or I'm waiting in the car and I'm concerned there, that it's just too big.
1:14:43I kind of want to know from you two if you've been thinking about the Pro, and especially
1:14:47you Myke, because you've kind of been doing stuff on the iPad lately.
1:14:51What do you think?
1:14:52So whilst at Release Notes, people were talking to me about you and the iPad Pro.
1:14:58That was the thing.
1:14:59And I remain, I know that you don't think you're going to do this, but I still believe
1:15:05that you will be a two iPad man after the iPad Pro.
1:15:09I genuinely feel like you will have the iPad Pro at home and you will take a small iPad
1:15:14like a mini with you out into the world for portability.
1:15:19Because I understand in what Fraser is saying, just looking at that research, you're going
1:15:25to flip, you're going to go crazy for this thing.
1:15:28Because you've been so far out of the mindset of like a home computer and a travel computer
1:15:34for so long now because your main computer has been fine for travelling with, but the
1:15:39iPad Pro is potentially going to be a little bit too big for you to take to the beach.
1:15:43But you're still going to want to do work at the beach, and you're also going to love
1:15:46the iPad Pro.
1:15:47So I continue to put money down, and this will be the greatest Myke was right, if after
1:15:52a couple of months you end up with like a mini or something.
1:15:56The closer we get to this, the more excited I get about the idea of it, because I tell
1:16:00you are. I love my iPad so much now. Like so much. Multitasking has made it so
1:16:07amazing. I love it. I really really love it. And I and Chrome now has
1:16:12multitasking even though their implementation. I wish they did slightly
1:16:16differently. I don't like the tab stay on the top. It takes up too much of the real
1:16:19estate but I know why they're doing it. They're kind of stuck but it's fine.
1:16:23Give me Google Docs man. All I want is Google Docs. Just give me Google Docs and
1:16:27and it's game over, I'll be able to do so much work on that iPad.
1:16:32Like all of my show prep, I can just see me doing it on the iPad
1:16:35because I'll be able to do it from wherever I want,
1:16:36and then to be sitting in front of my computer all the time.
1:16:38Because I sit in front of my computer for so many hours of the day, right?
1:16:41Recording and editing.
1:16:43It's nice to be able to do that stuff away, and I can use my laptop,
1:16:47but then if I'm using my laptop, I kind of feel like I should just be on the iMac.
1:16:52Right, so I like doing that kind of stuff on iOS. I like Tweetbot and Slack
1:16:57side-by-side. I love all of that stuff. So the idea of being able to use these apps
1:17:02in basically full-size mode, that really excites me, I have to say. So I'm very
1:17:08very intrigued for this device. And Steven, whilst we were at release notes, I
1:17:16heard you matter at least once or twice that you were becoming excited about it.
1:17:20Yeah I think like like you guys iOS 9 has changed the game and I can do more
1:17:27in my iPad but one of the reasons I still don't is that the split screen is
1:17:32still is still pretty snug depending on what you're doing and you're still kind
1:17:35of doing some juggling in and out of at least I am multitasking modes and so
1:17:41yeah I think that it would be interesting to see and I am interested
1:17:46in the pencil even though I'm not an artist by any means but I'm interested
1:17:49see how they how they do it so I think I'm where you were a couple of weeks ago
1:17:53Myke that I'm definitely willing to pick one up to try it out and the question
1:17:57will be is something that I keep and incorporate in my life you know the most
1:18:04most of the time no matter how good my intentions are my pad air 2 is still
1:18:08more consumption and I wonder if the screen size and the power will be what
1:18:13tipped that in the other direction for me so I'm interested in trying it I just
1:18:17I just don't know if it'll be something that sticks around, if that makes sense.
1:18:21Any more interesting tidbits from Federico that you found that you like?
1:18:27I was reading through his tweets again last night.
1:18:31Another one was, of course, it has a work feel to it, the iPad Pro.
1:18:38And I guess it, of course, it makes sense because it's a bigger iPad with a keyboard
1:18:44and it's basically a MacBook and he also says you're going to use this more at a desk instead
1:18:53of holding the iPad and walking around, which is what concerns me and what leads you to
1:18:58think that I will end up with two iPads. I really don't know what to think anymore.
1:19:05It's one of those things, ok just let me use one and then I will decide. Because in theory,
1:19:11Awesome! I can use two apps at the same time, they're bigger, they're more powerful, the speakers, you know, they're louder
1:19:18I can listen to music better on the iPad Pro and I'm no artist, you know
1:19:23So I don't know if I will buy a pencil because I every time I try to buy iPad Sile
1:19:29just
1:19:32I feel bad, you know, like I can barely draw my name and
1:19:35You know, I just I just suck at drawings
1:19:39I will probably buy the smart keyboard because I want to try it, but I don't know if it'll be for me
1:19:44I just want to get the device and the model that I'm considering is of course the the top of the line
1:19:50128 gigs
1:19:53Wi-Fi and cellular because I mean I need my 4G LTE and
1:19:58It's it'll probably cost a thousand euros and maybe more
1:20:05We don't know when it's coming. They said November, but we don't know anything else at this point
1:20:10I guess we'll just keep waiting now. We'll see
1:20:13It's bigger. It's I guess it's better
1:20:18in terms of
1:20:20Software and power, you know
1:20:22Seeing more at the same time that that that's the kind of stuff that intrigues me
1:20:27Portability and you know the weight and holding the iPad which is an essential aspect for me
1:20:35I don't know how it'll work out. I really don't want to be the guy with two iPads, Myke.
1:20:39You're gonna be that guy, I'm telling you.
1:20:42No, you gotta talk to Sylvia for me about that because I cannot have this discussion
1:20:46with her, you know, two iPads.
1:20:49She'll just ban me from
1:20:52from her household.
1:20:54So now your plan is, you're listening to it, you're thinking it sounds like a good idea
1:20:58so you want me to convince your girlfriend.
1:21:00Is that what you're saying?
1:21:01No, I'm saying if it's the only possible solution to keep me happy you will have to talk to her for me
1:21:07Okay
1:21:09Okay, I can do that. It's all about the Moneta. Yeah
1:21:13Try that Myke that's a good idea. I'll try that. Do you have anything else you wanted to mention?
1:21:21I hope it's not the end of November, but maybe mid-november
1:21:25Because the weight is killing me
1:21:29That's what you'll be saying after you get one as well
1:21:31Yes, thank you, let's wrap up that's the end of this week's episode everyone if you want to find our show notes
1:21:42You can go and head over to relay.fm/connected/63
1:21:46I was really proud of that joke, by the way
1:21:47If you want to find all of us online as a couple of places you can do that
1:21:51Oh, we should mention Steven has a Nexus. He just got a
1:21:55new Nexus. What one did you get? The 5x? So we're gonna talk about it a
1:22:00little bit next week. If you have any questions about that you should send them
1:22:04in with the hashtag #ismhnexus which Stephen has chosen. We can tweet about
1:22:10that as well because now that I started the wrap-up of the show I don't
1:22:13know how many people continue listening so I guess we'll find out, right, if they
1:22:17continue to tweet. If you do listen to the end of the show, like if you're
1:22:20listening to me right now, just tweet at Stephen anyway and tell him.
1:22:23He really likes to hear from you all.
1:22:25And if you want to do that you can tweet @ismh and you'll get the lovely Mr. Steven Hackett.
1:22:30If you'd like to find Federico he's @vittici, V-I-T-I-C-C-I and I am @imike, I-M-Y-K-E.
1:22:37Steven also writes over at 512pixels.net and co-hosts Liftoff on Relay FM.
1:22:42Federico writes at maxstories.net and co-hosts Virtual with me on Relay FM.
1:22:47I host many other shows.
1:22:48You can find all those shows and all the great shows at Relay.fm.
1:22:53Thanks so much for our sponsors this week.
1:22:55The good people over at Braintree, Igloo and Warby Parker.
1:22:58And we'll be back next time.
1:22:59Until then, say goodbye guys.
1:23:01Adios, Erci.
1:23:02Adios.