61: The Confidence to go Gold


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:06   From Relay FM, this is Connected, episode number 61.

00:00:11   Today's show is brought to you by Igloo, an internet you'll actually like.

00:00:14   Fracture, photos printed in vivid color directly on glass,

00:00:17   and Braintree code for easy online payments.

00:00:21   My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined by Mrs. Stephen Hackett.

00:00:24   Hey Myke.

00:00:26   How you doing?

00:00:26   I'm doing well, how are you this morning?

00:00:29   I am very well indeed and I also have Mr Federico Vittucci with me here as always.

00:00:33   Hello Federico.

00:00:34   Hey guys.

00:00:37   Big day today. Lots to talk about on the show docket today.

00:00:40   Well, if you use a Mac, I guess it is a big day.

00:00:44   Big day for Mac users, huh?

00:00:46   Well, it's strange to consider

00:00:50   that just a few years ago I used to be very excited about days like this.

00:00:54   Now I just, you know, I just sit back and read what people have to say about

00:00:59   Mac updates, OS X stuff.

00:01:01   It's different, it's strange, you know?

00:01:04   I should probably change the name of my website.

00:01:08   - Have you ever genuinely thought about doing that?

00:01:12   - I have thought about that.

00:01:14   And usually my conclusion has been,

00:01:16   I gotta leave the name as it is,

00:01:18   mostly as a reminder of where I come from.

00:01:21   But I guess at some point I will have to consider

00:01:23   this option more seriously, you know?

00:01:25   - I think it's one of those things though,

00:01:27   where when a name is around for such a long time,

00:01:32   you disassociate the original thought of the name

00:01:36   and just associate it with what it is.

00:01:38   Like when I read Mac stories,

00:01:40   I just know what Mac stories is.

00:01:42   I don't think it's stories about Macs.

00:01:45   - Yeah.

00:01:45   - Do you know what I mean?

00:01:46   - Yeah, I'm just wondering, you know,

00:01:48   to the user coming from Google search,

00:01:51   what does it look like?

00:01:52   You know, you find a website called Mac stories,

00:01:54   but it's mostly about iOS stuff.

00:01:57   You still talk about Mac stuff. I think if you got rid of it, you know

00:02:01   And also I think there's a universal acceptance among people that Mac means Apple

00:02:05   True. So you have websites like MacRumors, 9to5Mac

00:02:10   I mean Apple news is mostly about iOS devices these days, but these websites, you know

00:02:15   They were born in an age where the Mac was the dominant device and now it's mostly iOS

00:02:21   But still people associate, you know Apple with the Mac

00:02:24   So I think it'll continue to make sense for at least a few years.

00:02:29   And again, I like to look at the name and think about my evolution in terms of Apple device usage and my relationship with the Apple technology.

00:02:40   So if only from a personal perspective to see what it used to be and what it is now, it still makes sense to me.

00:02:49   Maybe one day, you know, the Mac as a word, it won't make sense anymore, but

00:02:56   that's not a problem to discuss today.

00:02:58   I think you'd have to go so far different. Like, you'd have to give it a

00:03:02   completely new name, like "nothing like Mac Stories" because there isn't really

00:03:06   another nice sounding name for it, I think.

00:03:09   "iPad Stories" doesn't sound good. Plus, I don't want to limit myself to the...

00:03:15   As you said, Mac is mostly general as an Apple-like term.

00:03:20   I know a lot of people who just still say Macintosh

00:03:26   in Italy just to mean whatever Apple makes,

00:03:30   the Macintosh company to a lot of people.

00:03:32   So I think I'm still good in terms of website name.

00:03:37   - Man, that was a divergence.

00:03:40   - No, I think you've done better going with Mac

00:03:43   than putting a lowercase I in front of it.

00:03:45   That has aged out pretty badly, I think.

00:03:47   Yeah, interestingly, the Mac name there hasn't aged as quickly as the "i" did.

00:03:54   Yeah, true.

00:03:56   Should I call it "Apple Stories"?

00:03:59   Oh yeah, cool.

00:04:01   I think you would definitely get sued for that.

00:04:04   Yeah, and that's coming from you and I who have "i"s in the beginning of our Twitter handles

00:04:09   for that reason.

00:04:10   Yeah, I don't even think of it like that anymore.

00:04:14   But I really wish it wasn't this way.

00:04:16   I really, really wish it was just Myke.

00:04:20   Or anything, really.

00:04:20   - Change it out with a little you with the oomat over it.

00:04:24   - German. - German.

00:04:25   - I do actually own, I believe still, @MykeHurley.

00:04:29   And I've considered many times to change it,

00:04:32   but at this point, it's my personal brand, you know?

00:04:35   - Yeah, I was gonna say, it's your person,

00:04:37   it's what, people call you iMyke, like on shows, so.

00:04:41   - Yeah. - So I kinda just,

00:04:42   There's nothing I can do about it.

00:04:44   Steven, let's do some follow up.

00:04:47   - Yeah, so you guys ruined follow up this week

00:04:49   by suggesting that people tweet at me

00:04:53   and give us things for Federico to say in other languages.

00:04:57   - I wouldn't say ruined it.

00:04:58   - And I hope that someone looked at these

00:05:03   and that Federico's not gonna be swearing

00:05:05   at a whole region of humanity.

00:05:08   - Yeah, I'm sorry if I do.

00:05:10   - Yeah, we have some examples here.

00:05:12   I think we're gonna do three of them.

00:05:13   So Federico, I'm just gonna turn this over to you

00:05:17   and let you just have that.

00:05:20   Now, before we start, have you practiced?

00:05:22   Have you looked at these?

00:05:23   - Not at all. - Or just--

00:05:24   - Nope. - Perfect.

00:05:25   - It needs to be a genuine interpretation.

00:05:29   I didn't look it up.

00:05:31   I didn't use Google Translate,

00:05:32   you know, the little microphone icon that lets you,

00:05:35   actually the little audio icon

00:05:36   that lets you listen to the translation.

00:05:38   So I have no idea what I'm about to say.

00:05:40   I have no idea about the pronunciation,

00:05:43   so let's just go for it.

00:05:45   Patrick Rosenholm on Twitter says,

00:05:48   "Please make Vitici read."

00:05:51   Okay, so this is Swedish.

00:05:52   It means, "Hi, how are you?"

00:05:55   And it's, "Hey,

00:05:57   "hur har laget."

00:06:00   (laughing)

00:06:02   - That is so terrible.

00:06:04   I don't know why it's bad, I just know it's wrong.

00:06:07   - Hur har laget, Myke.

00:06:10   Yep, yeah, who'd I hug it to you too, my friend.

00:06:14   The second one is Wally Kirkaboom.

00:06:17   Oh nice last name.

00:06:18   What a name!

00:06:19   Kirkaboom!

00:06:20   Wow!

00:06:21   This guy's a boss.

00:06:22   My name is Mr. Kirkaboom.

00:06:24   I like it.

00:06:26   So second tweet, please get Federico to say, in his best Dutch, Dutch are great people,

00:06:33   you know.

00:06:34   I don't know what it means, but it's Scheveningen.

00:06:38   Sounds like Scheveningen.

00:06:40   It's one of the eight districts of The Hague as well as a sub-district of that city.

00:06:45   Got to say, Schwanenkrein. Schwanenkrein.

00:06:48   Did you just know that or did you look it up?

00:06:49   No, I just know it. I'm very well versed in these things these days.

00:06:52   That's impressive.

00:06:53   So the next one is, I would say, Riles, but because it's a French person, maybe it's Rille.

00:07:00   It's like Rille in French.

00:07:02   Yep, this is our French interpretation of ourselves.

00:07:05   really um so i gotta say um salut oh man i'm trying to read this in english uh saluto shona

00:07:17   mesa me the montreal oh that's beautiful i don't care if that was wrong sorry i guess it means uh

00:07:25   hi to my friends from montreal i guess that's what it means that's me in italian would be

00:07:32   "iméa michi" "més amis" in French, I guess.

00:07:36   So that's about it.

00:07:37   Keep sending tweets to ISMH on Twitter if you have any requests for translation to make

00:07:44   connected, always on, worldwide.

00:07:48   That's what we do.

00:07:49   We say hi, probably swear in other languages, but please don't get upset.

00:07:55   I checked them out and they seem pretty good.

00:07:57   - Unless Wally Kirkaboom is a,

00:08:00   that's like some kind of hidden swear word.

00:08:04   I kind of hope it is.

00:08:06   - Not a real name, but like a joke.

00:08:08   When I worked at the Apple store,

00:08:12   sometimes the closing shift we would do,

00:08:16   this is so terrible, we would do fake appointments

00:08:18   in like the last couple slots

00:08:19   so we could get to our closing stuff early,

00:08:21   and we always did like sort of jokey names.

00:08:24   And then our manager caught on,

00:08:27   and then we just made up names that sounded real

00:08:29   but were indeed fake people.

00:08:30   It was great.

00:08:31   - Nice work.

00:08:32   - I apologize to anyone who tried to make an appointment

00:08:34   and couldn't.

00:08:35   We have, moving on, we have a question from Mayock, Mayock,

00:08:41   to revisit iCloud Photo Library.

00:08:48   So we talked about this a while back,

00:08:50   we haven't really talked about it since.

00:08:52   Just wanted to check in and see who of the three of us

00:08:55   using it and then is the performance better on iOS 9 than it was on iOS 8.

00:09:00   On iOS 8 you'd go to like the photo picker and Instagram or something and your phone

00:09:04   would just sit there and kind of like think for a while and then let you select an image.

00:09:10   So I'm not using it.

00:09:12   I'm still using my Dropbox finder system.

00:09:14   I keep being drawn to photos.

00:09:17   I feel like I might end up there at some point again but for now I'm still in Dropbox and

00:09:21   finder.

00:09:22   What about you Federico?

00:09:24   I'm still using it every day and in fact it's gotten better with iOS 9.

00:09:29   It's faster and more importantly it shows what's uploading and how many megabytes or

00:09:35   you know kilobytes if it's just a selfie is uploading to the cloud at the bottom of the

00:09:40   Photos app there's like a percentage of completion and I'm using it every day.

00:09:45   It was a fantastic experience when setting up this iPhone 6s that I bought last week.

00:09:49   I just signed into my iCloud account and in just a couple of hours he pulled down all

00:09:54   my photos and videos. I love that I haven't been thinking about photos at all for the

00:10:01   past few months. I just take a picture and it's there in the Photos app, it's in iCloud

00:10:07   and I'm very happy. I'm paying for iCloud, my storage has increased because of recent

00:10:12   changes and in fact I'm convincing all of my closest friends to switch to iCloud. I

00:10:19   told you this, I'm kind of evangelizing iCloud for the library to people. It's very nice

00:10:24   experience, not thinking about photo management anymore, it's just in iCloud.

00:10:28   The only friction point for me at this point is that regularly I need to go through my

00:10:33   photo library and delete screenshots and I know that there's a few apps, in fact I use

00:10:38   some of those to get rid of screenshots, I use Screeny which is an iOS app that lets

00:10:42   me delete iPhone and iPad screenshots, so you can imagine for the website I get quite

00:10:47   a few screenshots in my library because of app reviews and that kind of stuff.

00:10:51   The problem is these apps tend to always miss some images.

00:10:56   If the resolution doesn't match, if maybe I work on a screenshot and I crop it and the

00:11:00   resolution changes, the app cannot find it anymore.

00:11:03   So the only management that I'm doing is going through my phone library and deleting these

00:11:07   kind of images I don't want to keep.

00:11:10   But for everything else it's faster.

00:11:12   I like that I see progress at the bottom of the app.

00:11:15   And yeah, I'm a happy customer.

00:11:18   Cool.

00:11:20   about you Myke? So unbeknownst to me I only just turned on iCloud

00:11:26   Photo Library like two weeks ago. I didn't know it was on. I'm not really

00:11:31   sure. So what I thought was iCloud Photo Library was actually just photo stream

00:11:36   right? I didn't know I just assumed it was on or maybe I had it on and turned

00:11:44   it off or something happened. When I upgraded my iCloud storage I put more

00:11:49   storage in. I was in there I was like "oh it's not on, I'll turn it on now" and it's

00:11:54   fine. I mean I have no obviously no comments because I had nothing to compare it to

00:11:57   because I wasn't using it before. I like that I can very quickly grab a photo on

00:12:02   my Mac, you know, like I took a screenshot or something and then I can just grab it

00:12:06   on my Mac. That's been very useful for me and also the the Photos app has been

00:12:11   good to help me find some photos recently like I'm putting together this

00:12:15   talk at the moment I needed some pictures for a presentation and I was

00:12:18   able to just find them by searching right which was you know I can search

00:12:22   like San Francisco and it gives me what I need so that I mean that was totally

00:12:26   fine aside from that I don't really have much to say which is probably good

00:12:30   because it means that this is getting out my way and let me do whatever I need

00:12:33   to do but I'm not really using the photos app and I haven't imported all

00:12:37   of the pictures that I have in Dropbox yet maybe at some point I will but I

00:12:41   don't need to do that right now and I'm waiting until I'm at a scenario where my

00:12:45   internet connection is faster so I don't have to upload them over my LTU hotspot

00:12:49   because that would suck. Two points Myke. First one, it is super confusing to me

00:12:56   that if you go into settings, photos and camera, there's still this bunch of

00:12:59   options like legacy options for photo stream. I don't understand why there's

00:13:04   both iCloud photo library and photo stream. I think if you turn on iCloud photo

00:13:08   library the photo stream stuff should just go away. No, the setting is

00:13:13   there just turned off. My feeling is it should just go, everything related to photo stream

00:13:19   should disappear from your settings I think. That's what it should be. Maybe it's too much

00:13:24   for me, I still don't understand the purpose of photo stream when I have the iCloud library.

00:13:28   Anyway, the second point is, it's quite interesting to me the 3D touch menu that Apple added to

00:13:35   the photos app in the home screen. So you can 3D touch the icon and you get the most

00:13:40   recent shortcut, so it brings you to the latest photos, favorites, one year ago and search.

00:13:46   And one year ago is interesting because it's not a feature of the Photos app, it's a search

00:13:51   filter, so you can look for photos taken around the same time last year. And it's interesting

00:13:58   to me that Apple isn't taking you to a specific section of the app, just a feature that's

00:14:03   possible if you search in the right way. And I guess it kinda suggests that people don't

00:14:09   really know that they can search for photos but one year ago makes for a, you know, the

00:14:15   kind of filter that's easy to understand, it's right there, you don't need to open the

00:14:19   app and type "one year ago", you can just 3D touch the icon and it brings you to, you

00:14:25   know, this kind of like a diary that lets you view old memories and stuff and this used

00:14:29   to be one of my favorite features of Everpix, Picture Life, gosh, remember those services?

00:14:35   Now it's right there in the Photos app.

00:14:37   It doesn't show you just photos from the same day, so it kind of takes you around the same

00:14:43   period from last year, but it's been useful to me, you know, to find all photos taken

00:14:49   in the same period.

00:14:50   Right now it's showing me photos from October 11th to October 15th from last year, so I

00:14:56   guess it pulls, you know, like a week, I don't know.

00:14:59   It's useful and it's interesting that they're using these in the home screen, I think.

00:15:05   So there you go.

00:15:06   Yep.

00:15:07   So that's photo stuff.

00:15:09   We had a lot of people write in and tweet about control center customization, and Federica

00:15:16   I think you had some thoughts on that.

00:15:18   Yeah, I mean I saw this on Twitter.

00:15:21   A lot of people saying you should be able to use 3D Touch to customize or at least have

00:15:26   more menus or more toggles in the control center when you press firmly on the display.

00:15:32   And I agree.

00:15:33   I think for all the customization that Apple is now doing across iOS and watchOS, Control

00:15:39   Center, the idea is you should be able to access commonly used settings real quickly,

00:15:45   but these settings are not the same for everyone.

00:15:50   Perhaps I want to have the flashlight and I want to have the rotation lock, maybe someone

00:15:54   else wants to have quick access to another specific setting for personal hotspot or cellular

00:15:59   data or they want to turn some accessibility option on and off.

00:16:05   I wouldn't be surprised or at least I'm hopeful that in iOS 10 you will be able to say I want

00:16:11   to have access to this menu or at least let me press with 3D touch on an icon to have

00:16:16   an additional kind of nested menu.

00:16:19   So if I press on the rotation lock I can say, "Okay, I want to lock my device in portrait

00:16:24   mode but when there's a video just put the video in landscape because I prefer landscape."

00:16:29   So I think Control Center was a good idea with iOS 9, now it needs to be expanded and

00:16:33   maybe 3D Touch or, you know, there's still a settings screen in the Settings Control

00:16:38   Center, it's mostly empty.

00:16:41   They could use that screen, they could also use 3D Touch to customize the menus that are

00:16:45   shown, that's on my list for iOS 10 next year, but I don't want to think about, you know,

00:16:50   there's going to be iOS 10 next year because it needs another review and I just feel sick

00:16:54   if I think about another review at this point.

00:16:57   So it needs to be done.

00:16:59   Makila, why are you laughing, Myke?

00:17:05   I like the idea of you being already terrified about the fact that there's a review due next

00:17:11   year.

00:17:12   Yes, very much.

00:17:14   Just June next year, writing another review.

00:17:17   Oh my God.

00:17:19   Still I made a note in the document.

00:17:22   Imagine 3D touch for notifications too, like more actions, more menus.

00:17:27   I mean, 3D touch is clearly here to stay and they can only do more at this point, so control

00:17:33   center and notifications could be possible candidates for more menus, more options.

00:17:39   Power users love options, so give us options and we'll be happy.

00:17:42   It needs to be power users only, because otherwise iOS is going to get too confusing.

00:17:47   It's going to be like Windows 8 or something.

00:17:52   So I had a bunch of differing feedback about 3 and the feel at home service.

00:17:57   You remember last week we were talking about Arcaria situations and I mentioned that I

00:18:00   was looking to switch to 3 because they had unlimited data at a good price and I could

00:18:04   also use that data when overseas for free.

00:18:08   I have had so much feedback that is completely different in all regards.

00:18:14   People telling me that 3 is awesome, people telling me that 3 sucks, people telling me

00:18:18   that feel at home is awesome and people telling me that feel at home sucks. And I

00:18:22   think part of the problem is 3 are maybe if you're thinking in American terms a

00:18:26   little bit more like T-Mobile or Sprint. They don't have the best coverage

00:18:30   everywhere but where they have coverage it's good. So I was doing some tests at

00:18:35   the LTE speeds at home and I could get about 20 or 30 down over LTE on 3. But on

00:18:41   EE at the moment at home I can get 80 down which is just horrific.

00:18:47   Now my understanding is at some point over the next 12 months three are

00:18:53   going to get access to this new 800 megahertz spectrum which will increase

00:18:57   their speeds also. EE has always been at the front of the 4G stuff if you

00:19:01   remember way back probably in the prompt days I was talking about EE because they were the

00:19:06   first 4G carrier that we had. So I need to do some more testing, I need to do some more

00:19:11   testing at home, but the key thing that I'm going to do is I'm going to be in

00:19:15   America next week so I'm going to take my 3 SIM with me and see what I can get

00:19:18   because I need good speeds, I don't necessarily need LTE, but I need good

00:19:22   speeds and I also would like to be able to use tethering and I don't think I'll

00:19:27   be able to do that so I'm gonna give that some more tests and then I'll make

00:19:30   my decision if not I will cancel the plan in the first 30 days and try and

00:19:34   get my current carrier to give me a bit of a better deal. You should start a

00:19:40   carrier podcast. Talk about Spectrums, Megahertz, Giga-flops, that kind of stuff.

00:19:49   Each week just ends and the host just sort of sobbing into Skype quietly.

00:19:55   It's just one episode, you can't take it any longer. And you could just keep doing it every week because it will

00:20:02   never change right you just keep playing that same episode at week in week out

00:20:05   Ricardo wrote him with a good suggestion there was somebody nice accent Myke

00:20:11   well Ricardo is an Italian name also I'll do my best one he wrote him with a great

00:20:17   suggestion there was somebody who asked last week about getting a quick

00:20:20   dictionary definition in iOS and they suggested setting up a dictionary

00:20:26   definition in launch center Pro and then putting it behind the 3d touch menu so

00:20:31   So that's pretty good, so you just 3D touch, you hit the button, it will open up Launch

00:20:34   Center Pro, throw up a dialogue, you type in the word and it will go off and do a definition.

00:20:38   It's not necessarily the most elegant, but at least it's a quick way and it's somewhere

00:20:41   it will always be better on your home screen.

00:20:43   Are you guys using Launch Center Pro on your device?

00:20:47   Yes, but I pretty much, I mean I'm still deciding what I'm going to do with it long term with

00:20:54   the 3D touch stuff because I'm not sure it's that useful to me.

00:20:57   I've always used Launch Center Pro mainly as a launcher for Google Docs and

00:21:04   since they put this extension and so the Today widget in it has changed

00:21:09   everything for me. So I have all of the show documents in Launch Center Pro in

00:21:13   the Today extension and you tap it and it just directly opens the Google Doc.

00:21:18   It doesn't even open Launch Center Pro anymore. So or even the Google Drive app

00:21:23   because Google changed quietly their callback URL stuff and now you can

00:21:29   directly open Google Sheets and Google Docs. Previously you had to open it via

00:21:33   the Google Drive app but you don't do that anymore. You can use I think it's

00:21:37   Google Docs and Google Sheets colon slash slash and then the URL of the

00:21:41   document and it opens it straight to the Google Docs or Google Sheets app on iOS.

00:21:46   So I just have a row, I have like a block of 12 icons which are all Google Docs

00:21:52   stuff and I can just hit those and it opens me right into the app so that's

00:21:56   what I use Launch Center Pro for now.

00:21:58   Oh nice. I had no idea about the URL scheme changes.

00:22:03   I found it by accident.

00:22:05   Thanks for the tip Myke.

00:22:06   That's a Mykey tip.

00:22:08   You continue to provide welcome amounts of life hacks on a weekly basis.

00:22:13   That's what I'm all about.

00:22:16   And last piece follow-up this week. Hakan has wanted to comment. Federico,

00:22:20   it's a real-time follow-up that your Swedish was perfect you correctly

00:22:24   pronounced the Swedish which I cannot believe you managed to do. Let's see I

00:22:29   can go live in Sweden and I will be fine I will be able to communicate mostly

00:22:35   with high our you but that's a start. That's all you need. Yeah. Alright let me take our

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00:24:00   So a lot of news this week from Apple, but we want to talk real quick since Myke, you

00:24:08   and I are both on the show about the Relay FM app.

00:24:11   Yes.

00:24:12   So we got some links in the show notes one to a page on our site, one to the app itself in the iOS app store, and then one to our developer Tapjet.

00:24:24   The idea behind the app is it's all built around notifications for live streaming.

00:24:29   So shows like our show, Connected, we're streaming live right now and you can listen on our website and there's an IRC chat room

00:24:41   room embedded on the website but that you had to kind of know when we were doing it

00:24:45   right you had to either follow us on Twitter or kind of be around and with

00:24:48   the Avia if you have the app installed you can get a push notification and you

00:24:51   can listen in the app just directly and so far it's been it's been a lot of fun

00:24:57   to have more people listening live and it's really easy to go through and hit

00:25:01   little notify on the shows that you want and for shows that don't stream live you

00:25:05   can listen to past episodes and you can see show notes and all that's kind of in

00:25:09   they're all in one place now. Yeah we're really happy with it and it's been

00:25:14   amazing to work with Tapjet but they have this system which is kind of

00:25:17   unbelievable that it exists where they we have an app but all of the content in

00:25:22   the app is controlled by a series of text files in Dropbox. It's madness. So

00:25:29   like for example today before the show we put in a whole new section into the

00:25:33   app which has a list of all of our shows and you can go in and set your

00:25:37   notification options or subscribe to certain shows just in a big list where

00:25:41   previously, well and there still is a list of episodes when you open, but then

00:25:45   you can slide across to the shows tab and you can see them all there. Now we

00:25:48   were able to do that without having to submit the app for another review or

00:25:51   anything like that so we can add new features like this and new content

00:25:54   really really easily and that's the power of the TapChat system and we have

00:25:58   a lot more stuff that we want to do with the app. We want to put live chat in

00:26:02   there that is on our radar. We want to do more stuff with the Apple Watch and

00:26:06   actual notifications which I know is something that Federico wanted. We've got a lot of

00:26:09   stuff that we want to do. We're very happy that it has Split View and Safari

00:26:13   View Controller. We've made sure they were a priority considering what we were

00:26:16   releasing. But I think for just our 1.0 I'm really proud of what we've been able

00:26:20   to do along with TapJets and our great designer ForgottenTale on Twitter.

00:26:24   They've done just an incredible job and we're really happy with it and I

00:26:27   think people seem to be pretty happy with it on the whole. Yeah I did I did

00:26:32   want to kind of address one thing. There's an interview that Marco did on

00:26:37   core intuition a couple weeks ago, we can throw that link in the show notes as

00:26:41   well, about podcasting as a sort of as a medium and he believes like Myke,

00:26:49   you and I believe that podcasting is best when it's open by its very nature.

00:26:53   All it really is is an RSS feed with mp3s attached and our app is not a walled

00:26:58   garden for our content. In fact, we worked very hard to make it very easy if you discover

00:27:03   a new show that you like to subscribe in your podcast app of choice. You actually can't

00:27:08   see much of our back catalog on purpose to get you into an app like Overcast or Pocket

00:27:14   Cast or Casio or the Apple stuff.

00:27:16   And you can't download anything either. It's all streaming.

00:27:19   It's all streaming. And that was done very intentionally because those apps are all really

00:27:25   good and and we believe you should listen to our shows right alongside all

00:27:29   of your other podcasts you enjoy and so this is really built around listening

00:27:33   live, getting a notification and jumping into the stream as the show is being

00:27:37   recorded and yeah it's we're super proud of it super happy Tapjet their

00:27:42   technology and and the team behind it just have been amazing to work with and

00:27:47   so yeah so go check it out in the in the App Store and if you like it tell

00:27:51   friends, leave a review, etc. Let us know on Twitter and other

00:27:56   email and stuff the types of things you want to see so we know the kind of

00:27:59   stuff you're interested in. The idea of having the notifications view

00:28:03   in the shows panel came from user feedback. That's really

00:28:07   important to us so we know exactly the type of stuff you want because we really

00:28:10   do want this to be a great experience so we can have more people listening live

00:28:13   because it's fun and then we like doing it.

00:28:16   Indeed. There's something that I wanted to bring up, just a random thing. I saw

00:28:21   Joshua Topolski tweet over the weekend about the, and his tweet, and I'll read it

00:28:26   verbatim, "At what point can we talk about this awful badly placed yet badly needed

00:28:30   back button in iOS?" And that really struck a chord with me I wanted to talk

00:28:33   about it. So the new kind of iOS 9 back button is a fantastic addition, right? So

00:28:39   this allows you, you're in one app, you go out to another either by a link or by a

00:28:42   notification that comes in, you tap it, you go to another app, do what you need to

00:28:45   do, and it says back to X, whatever the app is, you just tap it and it takes you

00:28:49   back to the app that you were in. I use it a ton. It's actually one of my

00:28:53   favorite features of iOS 9 because you know as I said many times one of the

00:28:57   reasons that I love Chrome is because it has the callback URL stuff in and tons

00:29:01   of apps that I use support that but now that's not really so much of an issue

00:29:05   anymore because it's super easy for me to go backwards and forwards between

00:29:08   pretty much any app. However this is one of the worst pieces of UI placement in

00:29:13   iOS because whenever you have that there it hides information like your signal

00:29:19   strength or whether you're connected to Wi-Fi. And then with deep linking, it's

00:29:24   where you click on a link in a web browser maybe to Twitter

00:29:27   and it opens a Twitter app. It then puts another piece of UI on the top right

00:29:32   hand corner where you would have your battery life and stuff like that

00:29:37   with a link to the actual website, like say to twitter.com. So you end up in a

00:29:42   scenario sometimes where everything in the status bar is hidden and I think

00:29:47   that I don't have a solution myself as to what kind of fixes this.

00:29:52   I just know that what this is isn't very nice to look at and I feel like maybe

00:29:58   there could have been a way to push the information further to the right,

00:30:02   so it's pretty much touching the clock which isn't necessarily simple or

00:30:06   might not look better but at least you don't lose the information because

00:30:10   sometimes you can be sitting in an app for like 10 minutes or whatever and it

00:30:13   still says back to sweet pot at the top.

00:30:15   And I don't really think that that is the best way

00:30:18   to present this information.

00:30:21   - Yeah, I agree.

00:30:22   I think that's a good point about the covering up of the UI.

00:30:27   And I think the back and front,

00:30:29   I know what I'm doing and I can kind of get lost in there

00:30:33   of like, wait, where was I, where do I wanna go?

00:30:35   I agree with you, I think it could be better presented,

00:30:38   but I don't have a solution for it either.

00:30:43   - It's problematic because there's utility

00:30:45   in being able to return to the previous app

00:30:47   or go into the web version of a universal link.

00:30:51   It's just where else would you put it?

00:30:53   Would you double the height of the status bar?

00:30:55   So like when you're on a phone call

00:30:57   and you click the home button,

00:30:59   you get a taller status bar that has a label at the bottom.

00:31:04   Would you do that for every time you open an app

00:31:07   from another app?

00:31:07   So you're basically using iOS 9

00:31:10   with the double status bar all the time. What else would you do? Would you do it above the

00:31:15   keyboard? The problem is the status bar is the only piece of UI that's shared by the

00:31:24   system and apps. So of course Apple went with the status bar to include different shortcuts

00:31:30   to apps and to Safari. I don't know what the solution is. I wonder if they should try to

00:31:38   be more clever about it, especially on the iPad where there's the space to fit carrier

00:31:48   information, signal, battery information.

00:31:50   Instead, you end up with these shortcuts on the left and on the right and the status bar

00:31:56   on the iPad is mostly empty.

00:31:58   So on the iPad they could have done things a little differently.

00:32:01   On the iPhone I don't know.

00:32:02   Would you put those shortcuts above the keyboard?

00:32:06   you just bring them up with 3D touch but that would conflict with 3D touch in apps.

00:32:12   So I don't think there's a solution and I guess this is just one of those things we

00:32:18   need to learn to live with.

00:32:22   I don't know what they could do, I just know that I love it, to be able to tap a button

00:32:27   and go back to the previous app.

00:32:30   I hope it doesn't go away.

00:32:32   I guess they will try to change it, little tweaks, I don't know how.

00:32:39   It's an interesting discussion, if only from a design perspective.

00:32:44   You can see that this is the type of thing that they, I'm sure, was agonized over, like

00:32:48   how do you solve this problem, and it might end up being that the best and only way to

00:32:53   do it is this, but then it's like this is my ongoing thing that I keep thinking about

00:33:00   right now is the addition of features and stuff like that and the added

00:33:04   complexity and it's like you are now at this point iOS is now at maturity point

00:33:08   where to add new stuff to it you have to kind of break what's already

00:33:14   there because you're working within the constraints you set for yourself so like

00:33:18   Apple haven't got a place that they can put this button right like on Android

00:33:22   there is a button like it's just a persistent button whether software or

00:33:26   hardware that does this thing and so it's easier for them to do that because

00:33:29   it was built into the system. But now Apple's in a scenario where they don't

00:33:32   have that. They don't want buttons, right? Software or hardware that are like fixed

00:33:36   to a certain position. So now they're in this unfortunate scenario where all you

00:33:41   can do is hide important information, which potentially isn't the best thing

00:33:48   to do. And I think that with the larger phones that we have, doubling the

00:33:53   status bar height probably isn't the hardest thing or the worst thing to do.

00:33:56   but then the issue is not everybody has these five, six basically inch screens in

00:34:03   front of them. So yeah it's a difficult one. Yeah. Alright so Federico you

00:34:10   mentioned that you have a new iPhone so we want to talk about that you finally

00:34:14   got your hands on a 6s and of course there was new iMac news that came out

00:34:18   today. Let's take a break quickly and then we'll jump straight into talking

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00:36:24   support of this show and Relay FM.

00:36:29   So Federico, you have got yourself a 6S. Have you left the Plus Club?

00:36:34   No, I just couldn't make a reservation for a 6s Plus last week.

00:36:39   I really wanted to buy a new iPhone to try 3D touch and live photos.

00:36:45   My girlfriend told me I want to upgrade to the 6s as well, so we came up with a plan.

00:36:52   I'm going to use the iPhone 6s for a week and then this Friday I'm going to the Apple

00:36:57   store and I'm buying the 6s Plus for me and I will give the iPhone 6s to my girlfriend.

00:37:04   That's what we do.

00:37:05   She cooperates with me on these crazy plans.

00:37:10   Do you want to know about the experience of buying an iPhone this year, Myke?

00:37:14   Because I told you last year there was yelling guy who didn't understand the concept of lines

00:37:19   and reservations at the Apple store.

00:37:20   I was lucky to know what it was like.

00:37:22   This year was much, much quieter.

00:37:26   Fewer people.

00:37:27   I was chatting with an Apple store employee and he told me we had so many people make

00:37:34   a reservation this year because people are starting, I guess Italian people are starting

00:37:38   to catch on to the fact that you can just comfortably make a reservation and just go

00:37:43   there and pick up an iPhone whenever you want.

00:37:46   And it showed me a list on the EasyPay devices that they have.

00:37:51   A list of reservations.

00:37:53   It was a huge, huge list.

00:37:55   Yeah, I saw that as well.

00:37:58   Basically everyone is now making a reservation online.

00:38:01   They go in at different times.

00:38:03   So instead of having like 300 people in the morning and having those people stay in line

00:38:09   throughout the entire morning until lunchtime, which is when I went last year, they have

00:38:15   smaller packets of people throughout the day.

00:38:17   So like 20 people all day waiting for a reservation, which is much quicker.

00:38:23   I waited in line for like 10 minutes.

00:38:25   There's no big scene of yelling people

00:38:28   who don't understand reservations

00:38:30   and want to buy an iPhone right now.

00:38:31   And it's basically a custom churn

00:38:34   of people making reservations,

00:38:36   go there, pick up an iPhone, leave.

00:38:38   So that was very nice.

00:38:41   I was offered espresso and a croissant

00:38:43   while waiting in line.

00:38:45   That's such Italian Apple style, I like that.

00:38:48   I'm in love with 3D Touch.

00:38:51   It's really, really nice.

00:38:53   I now understand what people were talking about, the haptic feedback, the new vibrator

00:38:58   inside the iPhone, it's much much better than the one in the 6 Plus.

00:39:01   The 6 Plus one was too loud.

00:39:04   Now I can park my phone in when my girlfriend is sleeping and not be scared that I'm going

00:39:07   to wake her up.

00:39:08   Yeah, it's not like an airplane taking off anymore.

00:39:14   It's very nice.

00:39:15   I'm in love with the shortcuts on the home screen.

00:39:18   I'm still learning all the different ways that I can save time by navigating into different

00:39:23   sections of my apps.

00:39:25   One that I'm using a lot is, I'm using this version of NewciFi which is an RSS reader.

00:39:33   Let me jump into my unread list directly.

00:39:36   I'm also using the App Store search and redeem shortcuts a lot because I'm always searching

00:39:42   for apps or redeeming codes and that's a useful shortcut.

00:39:46   And also Safari, I love that I can 3D touch and open a new tab directly from a home screen.

00:39:52   And also the Messages shortcuts to jump into a specific conversation, that's terrific.

00:39:57   Because every time I go pick up my girlfriend at class, I can just 3D touch the Messages

00:40:02   app, jump straight into our conversation and say that I'm waiting.

00:40:06   So that's very nice shortcuts to save time on the home screen.

00:40:11   I have to say, though, I am 100% baffled as to the people it picks.

00:40:15   Why?

00:40:18   Then it doesn't seem like there's any logic to it.

00:40:20   I think it's my most recent conversations.

00:40:24   It's not for me.

00:40:26   So my most recent conversations with Steven, my mom, Gray and my dad.

00:40:30   But then when I go into the 3D touch, it's Steven, Gray and Matt.

00:40:34   Like I haven't spoke, me and Matt have an exchange and I have a message since Friday.

00:40:40   doesn't make any sense to me like how they pick them out. Stephen are they any kind of

00:40:44   order for you? Did it make any sense for you?

00:40:46   Let's see I never actually use that. Yeah so it's so it's interesting is that right

00:40:58   now it's Myke it's you it's two local friends and then Sean Block. Sean Block and I have

00:41:03   a phone call scheduled every Tuesday after connected and so I wonder that if it knows

00:41:10   that Sean is on my calendar for an hour and a half from now and it's putting him there

00:41:15   like a proactive shortcut.

00:41:18   Yeah, yeah, so I don't know, it seems to be like a mix of what it thinks I want and who

00:41:24   I've talked to recently.

00:41:25   Yeah, it seems to be trying to guess what I want.

00:41:32   So speaking of 3D Touch, I'm using the peak and pop gestures a lot in apps that I'm trying.

00:41:39   I really... it's two things. They're useful because I can preview a web page without having

00:41:45   to do the whole Safari controller dance with the dumb button in the top right or I can

00:41:50   preview images so I get a bigger preview, I can preview conversations and it's not just

00:41:57   that they're useful. They're also nice in the hand, like they feel very nice to kind

00:42:02   of like pick and pop. I don't know, it's the combination of the visual effects, the haptic

00:42:08   feedback but it's just nice for me to do that. So I'm doing that a lot. And I kind of wish

00:42:14   that developers were able to use the custom gestures, like the side gestures that you

00:42:20   can see in Mail. So in Mail when you pick a message you can swipe up to see a list of

00:42:26   menus but you can also swipe to the left and you get these icons like a side menu. And

00:42:31   I haven't seen any developer do that and I guess that it's not an open API. So developers

00:42:36   can do the little list at the bottom but they cannot do the custom icon and menu on the

00:42:41   side. So I wish that Apple opened that up to developers in the next release.

00:42:47   Touch ID. Super fast as you guys said, I can only confirm. But for me it's so fast that

00:42:54   it's becoming a problem because every time I want to look at my notifications in the

00:42:57   morning the iPhone just unlocks. So I know I can hit the power button, I know I can use

00:43:03   a different finger but seriously, years and years of muscle memory of just reaching out

00:43:08   with my thumb quickly enough not to unlock my iPhone and now it unlocks instead, that's

00:43:13   just a problem because I'm just used to it.

00:43:17   And so what I'm doing now is I'm opening notification center instead if I want to catch up on all

00:43:23   my notifications or, and this is the part that I don't like, I just unlock my iPhone

00:43:31   and then I go, you know, hunt around for badges on my apps and see manually everything that's new.

00:43:37   That's not a good experience, but I also love the fact that Touch ID is so fast that it, you know,

00:43:42   I can get in and out of my lock screen and home screen really fast.

00:43:47   So what I'm wishing for next year is a way to just press any part of the screen,

00:43:53   like with 3D Touch, to kind of wake the iPhone.

00:43:56   So don't let me use a different finger,

00:43:58   Don't let me reach the power button to wake up the screen.

00:44:02   Just let me press the display to kind of like poke my iPhone and say, "Hey, wake up.

00:44:05   I need to see the lock screen."

00:44:08   I don't know from energy consumption that would be a problem to always be able to 3D

00:44:14   touch the screen even when it's off, to just wake it up.

00:44:17   But I think it would be nice, you know?

00:44:20   It's kind of like grabbing someone's attention and just pressing the screen to say, "Wake

00:44:24   up.

00:44:25   Show me what's new."

00:44:26   I'm pretty sure there are some Android phones where you can like tap the screen to wake the screen

00:44:30   I know I've seen stuff like that. That doesn't feel like something that would

00:44:35   Would be impossible to do and I feel like you could run that on a really really low power mode

00:44:41   Yeah, I don't know

00:44:44   What else? Live photos really nice

00:44:47   The frame rate is kind of low which makes them feel more like gifs with audio

00:44:55   They're super nice to see extra details in photos when I was shoot, you know taking a picture

00:45:00   There's the before and the after and that's a problem at least right now. Maybe because it's still new

00:45:05   I'm learning for how long I need to keep you know

00:45:09   Taking the picture so it doesn't end up with the shaky ending

00:45:13   I know that iOS 9.1 is like like a new mode that basically cuts off

00:45:19   The live photo if you're just putting your iPhone down while still the live photo is still going

00:45:24   Right now I'm just paying extra attention to holding my iPhone upright

00:45:29   even after I took a picture because I know the live photo is still running.

00:45:34   Yeah, it seems to be like really random before or after for me. I know it's meant

00:45:38   to be like 1.5 seconds before and the same after but I feel like it's

00:45:42   sometimes not like that so I have no idea as well. So I'm looking forward to

00:45:47   being fixed for me because so many of my photos when they're live photos now end

00:45:51   in the phone moving in an erratic way at the end.

00:45:55   Now Myke and Steven, the core part of this conversation.

00:46:02   The 6S is too small for me.

00:46:05   I really want an iPhone 6S Plus.

00:46:07   I'm used to the plus size.

00:46:09   I'm a happy member of the Plus Club.

00:46:13   Myke was right, whatever Myke.

00:46:16   I really miss the extra screen space, the extra battery, and the idea that I have this

00:46:22   big phone and it shows me big web pages, big photos.

00:46:26   So I'm gonna buy a 6S Plus this weekend.

00:46:31   And I wanted to tell you this, I think this year I may go with a gold model.

00:46:36   I wanna buy a gold iPhone.

00:46:39   I need to know why, because I seriously considered it.

00:46:44   And this is going to sound stupid and I don't mean to sound like a jerk.

00:46:50   But I think it's more of a show off and I like that.

00:46:55   You like to be a bit flamboyant over there, buddy, huh?

00:46:58   I like that I have a gold iPhone.

00:47:02   And I know that it's not really gold and I know that it costs the same and I know that

00:47:05   people say it's tacky, but it makes it feel luxurious, maybe.

00:47:13   I don't know, it makes it feel cool in my mind.

00:47:15   And every time I look-

00:47:16   - You are having the exact same thought process that I had,

00:47:19   but ended up chickening out on getting the white, silver.

00:47:23   - I don't think I want.

00:47:24   And I was realizing this,

00:47:27   I spent the past few months with the white iPhone 6 Plus.

00:47:32   And I was thinking, yeah,

00:47:35   I wanna go back to the black iPhone, you know,

00:47:37   because iPhones have always been black for me.

00:47:40   Actually I miss the iPhone.

00:47:43   I don't know what it is, maybe it's just different, maybe it's the fact that the iOS interface,

00:47:48   which in many apps is white, kind of blends with the body of the device.

00:47:52   I don't know what it is.

00:47:55   But I know that I'm looking at the gold iPhone and I'm like, that really looks cool.

00:47:59   And I kind of want an iPhone that looks different, that kind of...

00:48:03   This is going to sound stupid to a lot of people, that kind of makes more of a statement.

00:48:09   I don't know how best to explain this.

00:48:11   It just looks nice to me and it looks like, "Oh yeah, that's a gold iPhone."

00:48:17   It's interesting that I'm treating the iPhone not just as an electronic device but also

00:48:22   as kind of an accessory, kind of like the watch.

00:48:25   Probably not going to make sense to a lot of people but yeah, I think I'm going to buy

00:48:29   a gold iPhone.

00:48:31   I'm going to be the guy with a gold iPhone.

00:48:33   I just need to accept that.

00:48:35   I think that's fine.

00:48:36   I mean, whatever.

00:48:37   a case or are you just gonna go flat out gold it? No no just no case I want to touch the

00:48:43   gold you know yeah it's not really gold but you know leave me at least with this idea.

00:48:50   Okay it's interesting I didn't really think about going to the back to the smartphone

00:48:57   like you guys really prefer the plus for a whole bunch of reasons but there there's a

00:49:03   review on Tools and Toys a Day by Josh Ginter talking about going back to the success from

00:49:08   the Plus. And again, to our point over and over, it's just nice to have options. And

00:49:15   there's trade-offs with each, right? Like Josh talks about in his review, the Plus is

00:49:20   a little more difficult to hold for some people. Or, Michael, you've talked about it a lot,

00:49:24   you kind of do all these weird hand tricks and you sort of trust the phone to do certain

00:49:31   things like if you kind of jimmy your hands back and forth. For me, the camera and the

00:49:38   battery life are worth that dread-all, and I think it is for you guys too. I thought

00:49:43   I'd point out somebody who moved the other direction and who seems to be liking it. It's

00:49:49   good to have options.

00:49:51   I see a lot of guys here with the rose gold iPhone, and the awful trend that I saw on

00:50:00   Twitter people calling it the rose gold iPhone, that's catching on here as well.

00:50:06   I heard people saying rose gold, men saying rose gold, why would you say that?

00:50:12   But yeah I see a lot of men with the with the rose gold iPhone actually.

00:50:18   And you're thinking standard gold right? No no I like gold, I don't

00:50:22   really like the rose gold, it's like light copper you know, I don't like it.

00:50:29   it. Instead I just love the gold color of the iPhone. I have a close friend of mine

00:50:35   here she has a gold iPhone 6. I really like it. In fact she uses a transparent case which

00:50:44   if I ever decide to go with the case again I may pick up a transparent one of those third

00:50:50   party cases and she told me exactly what I was thinking. I just want to protect my iPhone

00:50:56   but still show it off because it's a gold iPhone.

00:51:00   And if I ever decide to go with the case,

00:51:04   I'm gonna use a transparent one.

00:51:05   - So you're making me think that if you do it,

00:51:10   you may give me the confidence to go gold seven.

00:51:13   Because for me, even like just,

00:51:15   I, what I really like about the gold

00:51:17   is the gold ring around the home button.

00:51:19   That's my favorite thing.

00:51:21   So I could still wear it with a case

00:51:23   with all the colors that I like and still had the gold.

00:51:25   I think the gold accent is really, really good looking.

00:51:28   So we just got my mom an iPhone 6,

00:51:30   just a standard 6, 'cause it's free basically now

00:51:34   with a upgrade.

00:51:35   And she got a white and silver one

00:51:38   and she was moving from a 5C.

00:51:41   And we, and I was holding it today

00:51:44   and I was like, this is a great size.

00:51:47   Like that size, that iPhone 6 size is fantastic

00:51:51   'cause it feels really small in the hand,

00:51:53   it feels comfortable.

00:51:54   I really like it but I couldn't go back to a 6 because I love the screen. I love all the

00:52:02   information I can get on the screen. The 6 is more comfortable than the 6 Plus naturally but

00:52:08   I can get by with the 6 Plus very easily in my situation. I'm fine with it but I couldn't give up

00:52:14   that all of the screen space that I get. And the battery man. I'm really feeling a better battery

00:52:20   with this thing. It's lasting way longer for me. I haven't got like numbers but

00:52:24   I'm never charging this phone so it's really great. I mean I know that comes

00:52:28   with refreshing the phone you end up with more battery but I'm definitely

00:52:31   feeling it again which is good. And one thing I did want to mention we got you

00:52:35   saying about a case of iterico I was looking on Amazon to get my mama case

00:52:38   and we just found this one you'll find it if you look on Amazon. It's a clear

00:52:42   back but a white bumper. Looks nice looks really nice. So I mean that's a way to do

00:52:48   So you get the bumper and then it's just clear on the back because she wanted to be able to see the silver in the

00:52:53   Same way that you want to see the gold

00:52:55   Yeah

00:52:56   It's pretty good. It's pretty good. Gotta say yeah, send me the link. Yeah, I'll try I'll dig it up

00:53:02   And I'll put it in the show notes because now I said that people wanted me to find to put it in there

00:53:07   And there was one piece of real-time follow-up as well that I wanted to just mention before we move on

00:53:13   Which I hadn't thought of before and Myke on Twitter

00:53:17   tweeted at the relay FM account and said that we're better than beats one because we have a streaming show

00:53:21   So you're literally worldwide always on always on always scheduled

00:53:28   Yeah

00:53:32   Very nice Myke. I saw people on Twitter commenting on the app and the notifications and the schedule well done

00:53:38   I'm a fan Myke. It's nice and

00:53:40   Something that Stevens just if I really like is it does like kind of natural language on the date

00:53:46   So when it's today, it says today also it's in your own time zone as well

00:53:49   So it's better than the one we have on the website the one we have on the website

00:53:52   It's just Eastern time so that that works really nicely because you can get the times in the app, which is cool

00:53:58   Alright, let me take our last break and then we'll talk about the new iMacs and new input devices that came out today

00:54:04   This week's episode is also brought to you by fracture. We love fracture and they wanted us to say a massive ginormous

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00:55:48   right now and if you use the code connected you will not only get 15% 15% of your first order

00:55:54   you'll also help support this show which is very important to us thank you so much to Fracture for

00:55:59   helping sponsor this week's episode and for supporting Relay FM. So new IMAX, they came out

00:56:08   today as we're recording on the 13th of October. Me and Jason had a great episode that went up when

00:56:15   the embargo lifted of upgrade where Jason gets to tell me about everything and I get excited

00:56:20   and or angry depending on what he's telling me about. So you could go listen to that,

00:56:24   that's upgrade 58, I'll put a link to that in the show notes.

00:56:27   And Jason, he had some time with the new 21 inch Retina 4K iMac and all of the new Magic

00:56:33   Input devices and he's written a bunch of stuff up on the website.

00:56:37   But I'm interested to know, Stephen I'll start with you because you probably have more of

00:56:41   an opinion what you think of the announcements today.

00:56:45   So I think it's a mixed bag.

00:56:49   with the 21 inch Retina 4k iMac, Apple's doing what they did with the 5k where it sits sort

00:56:56   of above the rest of the models and that's fine, that's how Retina has worked as they've

00:57:01   introduced it and brought it down the line. You know, it comes in at the top and then

00:57:06   slowly works its way down. In fact, today also marks the end of the non-Retina 27 inch

00:57:12   iMac. You can only get that with a Retina display now. But, the reason I say it's a

00:57:17   expect that those like great machines the 21 inch sell of Broadwell the 27th

00:57:21   Skylake processors but what kills me is once again Apple is doing things to hit

00:57:29   price points I haven't made it all the way through upgrade but I imagine that a

00:57:35   point that you guys made is that Apple basically operates around price points

00:57:40   and at times they sort of bend their technology to hit a price point right so

00:57:44   So this Retina 21 half inch iMac is $1499, but that gets you 8 gigs of RAM and a terabyte

00:57:55   5400 RPM hard drive, which is just pathetic.

00:58:01   This was Jason's biggest bugbear with the machines, and I agree.

00:58:06   You end up kind of making the whole experience worse by putting in a spinning drive into

00:58:11   these machines.

00:58:12   Absolutely.

00:58:13   I appreciate that it's a 1499 machine.

00:58:17   You know, they have Apple's sort of bridge technologies,

00:58:21   the Fusion Drive, where if you're not familiar with it,

00:58:23   it is a very small, and smaller now than it used to be,

00:58:27   SSD coupled, through the magic of software and core data,

00:58:31   with a hard drive.

00:58:32   And so you see it as one volume, OS X sees it as one volume,

00:58:35   and core data is clever, and is like,

00:58:38   well, put the OS and things you use a lot on the SSD,

00:58:40   and put other stuff with a hard drive.

00:58:42   And I've used a Fusion Drive machine before,

00:58:46   not for any length of time,

00:58:47   but you run into a situation where some things

00:58:50   are faster than others and it can't always know

00:58:52   what you want.

00:58:53   And I don't know, I'm not saying that Apple's

00:58:56   gotta put all SSD in this thing,

00:58:57   but I think a Fusion Drive to start would have been good.

00:59:00   Because again, you have this beautiful machine,

00:59:02   you know, it's powerful even with 8 gigs of RAM,

00:59:05   it's plenty of computer for a lot of people.

00:59:08   And the core storage, not core data, excuse me.

00:59:12   But it is, it's really hamstrung by this drive.

00:59:17   And even when you go to the 27 inch,

00:59:19   the entry model has, again, that one terabyte hard drive.

00:59:23   Now, on the 27, at least it used to be,

00:59:26   I'm assuming it's the same now,

00:59:27   they use three and a half inch drives,

00:59:29   where the 21's use the smaller laptop,

00:59:32   two and a half inch drives.

00:59:33   So it's faster, but still, it's a spinning disk.

00:59:37   And I just refuse to boot from a spinning disk anymore.

00:59:39   Like, I know you guys have had the same experience,

00:59:41   Federico with what's left of your MacBook Air,

00:59:43   and Myke with your Mac Pro and your MacBook Pro,

00:59:48   like SSD is magic and it's so much faster

00:59:52   in just 100 different ways.

00:59:54   And I just really like to buy an $1800 27 inch iMac

00:59:59   and come with a hard drive is just,

01:00:02   it's just not a good move.

01:00:03   - I just think it's so strange that you put like

01:00:06   a technology like a retina display into a machine,

01:00:10   and like which is a very new technology.

01:00:13   It's still kind of a futuristic technology, right?

01:00:15   Because not everything has it, even though, you know,

01:00:17   these iMacs are kind of one of the last bastions

01:00:20   to fall in this scenario.

01:00:22   You put this technology in

01:00:24   and then you still put a hard drive in.

01:00:25   It just seems so strange to me that you would do that.

01:00:29   It's obvious why they did it, right?

01:00:30   But I feel like my feeling is if the laptops

01:00:33   can start with SSDs, the iMacs should as well.

01:00:36   But Jason's point, which I see what you think

01:00:38   this Stephen is Apple know the data so they probably know that well I would

01:00:43   assume maybe that they know the iMac customers on average want more storage

01:00:48   rather than a faster machine. These modern cars they're super advanced and

01:00:52   they have all these robotics inside and then you still need gas to drive a car.

01:00:58   Yeah they're still powered by fire like you know. Except you know spinning hard

01:01:03   drives don't kill the planet, I think. Well, I don't know. Maybe there's some

01:01:08   unrecyclable materials in there or something. Yeah, but to your point, I think

01:01:14   that's right. I mean, when I think about the iMac, I think of three types of users.

01:01:19   The first one kind of being at-home family users and I think the, you know,

01:01:24   iMacs have a big display, they're family computers, you know, I could see putting a

01:01:28   lot of pictures and movies and stuff on them. So yes, if I've got to use between a

01:01:31   terabyte hard drive or fusion drive and a 256 gig flash drive, then I think it

01:01:36   does make more sense to have the additional storage. You know, iMacs also

01:01:40   end up in businesses. A lot of designers use iMacs, a lot of just like office

01:01:45   people use, if they're in a company that supports Macs, use iMacs. And there again,

01:01:49   you don't want to be worrying about juggling data around and everyone has to

01:01:54   have an external hard drive or keeps it on the server. It's nice to have storage

01:01:57   space there as well. And the third type of user that I see is education and

01:02:03   especially this 21 inch iMac. You know these iMacs go into labs, they go into

01:02:08   classrooms where the 27 is just too big and too expensive. And so there you know

01:02:15   $100 or $200 makes a difference if you're buying 35 iMacs. And so having

01:02:20   that cheaper model be hard drive based again you get all the benefits of the

01:02:24   Additional storage and you keep the price point. So it's one of those things where on paper

01:02:28   It may make sense to a lot of people clearly it makes sense to Apple, but the feel of it is sort of wrong

01:02:33   But to go with an SSD you got to spend a bunch of money and on the base

01:02:38   27 inch and I believe that 21 inch the biggest you can go on a

01:02:44   SSD is 512 gigs. You can't get a terabyte SSD until you get to the higher end 27s and it's expensive. It's like

01:02:52   $100, um

01:02:54   I'm not complaining about that

01:02:55   But I think I think if you're buying one of these you should set the money aside to at least go fusion drive

01:03:01   But to go SSD if possible because you're gonna get such a better experience and the machine will age a lot better

01:03:06   Than with a spinning hard drive in there the only the lowest range

01:03:12   27 can't go to the terabyte the two the three the kind of the two

01:03:17   Next ones it's difficult to say what's different between them now because they all have basically the same processor

01:03:22   But the the 1999 the 2299 you can put a terabyte in them. Okay

01:03:27   You know

01:03:28   They also are they gigs of RAM as I railed about years ago on a predecessor to this show

01:03:34   The 21 inch iMac the RAM is sealed in

01:03:37   So if you're got if you want to upgrade your RAM and the 21 inch you have to do it a purchase

01:03:41   The 27 has an adorable little door on the back. You can add more RAM

01:03:44   but again

01:03:46   In buying systems today, it's been true with the laptops for a long time

01:03:50   but increasingly true with the iMac, buy for the future.

01:03:54   So if you've got a budget, and you can only buy

01:03:57   so much machine, then maybe a way to do your budget

01:03:59   can expand, if you plan on keeping this three, four,

01:04:02   five years.

01:04:03   And from what I see, the iMac life cycle is that long,

01:04:08   especially in schools and businesses.

01:04:11   You will buy an iMac and keep it for a long time.

01:04:15   Myke, I know that we're gonna get to it,

01:04:16   but I think that's your plan with your new one.

01:04:19   So you gotta think about this stuff now

01:04:21   maybe more than you used to.

01:04:23   It was different when every computer could be open,

01:04:26   you could add RAM, you could add a bigger hard drive.

01:04:28   Then when Apple skimped on this stuff to hit a price point,

01:04:32   it was a little more understandable.

01:04:34   It was like, well, I can just go to Crucial and buy RAM.

01:04:35   Well, now you gotta think about that

01:04:37   and be prepared that that might not be the case.

01:04:40   It's the case in zero laptops now.

01:04:42   None of Apple's notebooks can be open

01:04:43   and RAM be added by a human being.

01:04:46   And something to consider, I think,

01:04:48   you're looking at a new computer right now.

01:04:51   Any additional thoughts on the 27? I mean there isn't a lot a lot changed here.

01:04:57   No it's... Just bumps. Yeah it's incremental. I mean that display they're

01:05:02   using the P3 color space which I've read a little bit about basically it's a lot

01:05:08   better spectrum than the old displays. It's a good machine and we were talking

01:05:15   before the show that if I had one office I would be buying a machine today. You know

01:05:21   right now I have two spaces and I'm going back and forth a lot so I have a 15 inch map

01:05:26   of pro that I hook up to a bunch of stuff but this computer is really tempting to me

01:05:29   if I had just one desk in one place. It's not enough to like go build a studio at home

01:05:36   but you know one day one day maybe I will. But um it's a great machine if you're looking

01:05:42   for an iMac. I mean, it's always nice to buy at the beginning of the cycle, and these 5K

01:05:46   machines really seem like they're good computers.

01:05:50   Yep. I bought one.

01:05:53   So what did you get?

01:05:56   So I went with the top-of-the-line 27, and I've thrown some stuff in it. So I have the

01:06:04   4 gigahertz quad core Intel Core i7 in there I upgraded that I've got 16

01:06:10   gigabytes of RAM and a terabyte of flash storage so it wasn't cheap but this is

01:06:17   hopefully gonna be my new machine yeah I just built it as you said it what's nice

01:06:22   about that is if you go to 16 gigs of RAM they they only use two of the four

01:06:27   RAM slots you could buy a 16 gig kit a couple years from now if you needed a

01:06:30   little more RAM. But yeah, I think you're going to be really happy with it. It seems

01:06:37   like I said, I would own one if it made sense for me right now.

01:06:41   Muckermann - So, arriving next week when I'm away, which is probably for the best that

01:06:45   I don't have a new machine to play with and set up before the trip, because that just

01:06:50   feels like I would be wasting time doing that. So, that's a little present for me when I

01:06:54   at home. I did get with it the Magic Mouse 2 and Magic Trackpad 2 which and I will be getting the

01:07:01   new Magic Keyboard as well. So this is three new peripherals that Apple have announced today

01:07:05   and none of them are really as magic as they seem maybe except for the trackpad. So the keyboard

01:07:12   and the mouse and the trackpad and now all have rechargeable batteries in them and they're

01:07:16   recharged by lightning connectors which is fine so you can charge them up from

01:07:24   basically any charger that you have in your home because you've probably got

01:07:27   lightning cables all over the place like I do so that's good they have fast

01:07:31   charging in some scenarios the weird thing like the mouse the charging port

01:07:35   is on the bottom which is like very very strange but you can get you got to like

01:07:40   flip it upside down to charge it yeah but you can get like I know I don't know

01:07:45   why but apparently you can get four hours of usage on a two-minute charge so

01:07:52   it's like the Apple pencil in that regard and then if you want the full

01:07:56   charger to charge it for a longer period like overnight so if you're running low

01:07:59   flip it over go take a walk for five minutes come back to your desk and you

01:08:03   know you're good to go for the rest of the day so I mean if you're gonna do it

01:08:06   do it that way and I expect like it was a scenario where they were like we can

01:08:10   do this fast charging and it would be really really useful design wise and the

01:08:14   way that we can put pack the stuff into this thing if we put the connector on

01:08:16   the bottom so they've done it that way. The new keyboard is not the horror

01:08:22   keyboard from the MacBook it doesn't have those new butterfly switches it has

01:08:26   the old switches larger key caps and San Francisco font and full-size function

01:08:31   keys which is strange. I noticed that in the picture I assume that when they

01:08:38   built this thing they needed to be a set size for the battery or something and so

01:08:41   - Yeah, they have more space is probably what happened.

01:08:43   So they threw that in.

01:08:45   And then it has a little lightning,

01:08:46   it has a little, I keep getting confused,

01:08:48   it's lightning, right?

01:08:49   Lightning. - Yes.

01:08:50   - Yes, it has a little lightning connector on it.

01:08:52   Jason loves the fact that when you plug

01:08:55   one of these machines in, it pairs automatically.

01:08:58   They're Bluetooth, right, but you don't need

01:09:00   to go through the setup.

01:09:01   You just plug it into your machine

01:09:02   and it pairs automatically.

01:09:04   And then you get to go.

01:09:05   - That's pretty nice.

01:09:06   I mean, if you've ever paired like Bluetooth mouse keyboard,

01:09:09   Especially in like an office environment where there's a bunch of keyboards and mice floating around it can be it can be troublesome

01:09:16   Yeah, I will say I use the Apple wireless keyboard

01:09:20   I found it to be the most comfortable for me and I've ordered I ordered a new one to give it a shot. I'm

01:09:29   Hopeful, you know the pitch of it seems to be less and it's shorter as well, which should hopefully

01:09:37   Make it a little bit better to type on and I'm looking forward to trying it

01:09:40   I'm really glad they didn't go with the MacBook style

01:09:42   keyswitches, but

01:09:45   You know, we'll see

01:09:47   I don't use the mouse or the trackpad. So like I ordered a trackpad so I could talk about it

01:09:53   and we actually use a magic trackpad on our Mac mini at home this hook to the television and it

01:09:59   Very recently like fell off the desk and it's broken. And so I will end up putting a new magic trackpad there

01:10:06   I guess when I'm done playing with it, but uh

01:10:08   So the magic trackpad is the only input device that features force touch

01:10:13   So the mouse doesn't have it. I don't I don't know how they would I mean you could do it on the mouse

01:10:19   I guess mints curved. I'm sure they could figure that out. But like the thought of like picking your finger up or

01:10:24   Moving your hand away where you could force touch down on a mouse seems strange and it seems like out of the three

01:10:32   Magic Mouse 2 is like the the smallest update like it's just the built-in battery and they say it like glides better

01:10:39   I don't know what that means. But um

01:10:41   The Magic Mouse did not get the same sort of update that

01:10:45   That the trackpad did and which leads me to a question. I said you guys think about this

01:10:49   When you go to order an iMac, so I'm sitting here with one in my cart. I need to be careful because it's very expensive

01:10:57   It defaults to the Magic Mouse 2 and you can add the trackpad for 50 more dollars

01:11:03   Is there a point where Apple just replace switches that and the trackpad is the default

01:11:09   I mean you guys see that making sense at some point in the future. I'm surprised they don't do it now

01:11:14   Considering that the trackpad now has additional functionality

01:11:17   Right to OS X in false touch that the mouse doesn't have and considering how popular laptops are

01:11:25   It surprises me that they haven't just said like the trackpad's what you go for and I think it you know

01:11:30   Maybe the reason they didn't do it this time is because the trackpad is more expensive

01:11:33   Yeah, that's the only thing I can think of

01:11:37   If they were I think if they were the same price and you could just pick I think that if all would be the trackpad

01:11:41   So do I? Yep, definitely people are upset about the prices. These things are expensive

01:11:47   yeah, so the new trackpad is

01:11:50   $129 which is that is a

01:11:55   shocking price and the Magic Mouse 2 is 79. 79 is really high but you know that

01:12:02   that doesn't make me feel as bad. A hundred and twenty nine dollars for a

01:12:05   trackpad is too expensive. I got it because I was already spending like

01:12:12   two thousand, nearly three thousand pounds on a computer so it's like well

01:12:16   at this point like I'm already spending too much money so I may as well spend

01:12:20   the next bit of money but just as like an add-on peripheral like to a machine

01:12:24   that you already own and have been using, $130 is a lot of money.

01:12:31   Yep, I had that feeling today when I bought one.

01:12:35   I don't know, I mean it seems...

01:12:38   You can buy an Apple TV with the same money.

01:12:41   Yeah, yeah. A whole platform.

01:12:44   That's kind of crazy.

01:12:46   Yeah, when you start comparing products like that, it gets a little bit tougher, doesn't it?

01:12:51   "Oh I can buy..." which it was... I mean how much is the new Apple TV?

01:12:55   149?

01:12:57   Yeah, so for round about the same price you get the Apple TV which has the remote

01:13:01   which has the false touch capability in the remote

01:13:05   and you're like "Ahh! What's in this trackpad?"

01:13:09   That is... when you compare it to the Apple TV that price is crazy.

01:13:13   There's magic in it. Oh yeah I didn't consider the magic part.

01:13:16   Yeah you're right. Yeah and it's important to note too

01:13:20   as the chat room points out, these things support Bluetooth 4.0.

01:13:23   And so if you have an older Mac, you may be out of luck with these devices.

01:13:29   So something to check up on before you order.

01:13:32   That's one of those things that you just don't think about.

01:13:35   I wouldn't even think about that. Like, do I have the most up-to-date Bluetooth?

01:13:38   Like, yeah. I mean, they've shipped with Bluetooth 4 for a while now.

01:13:41   I mean, I think, like, Casey's old MacBook Pro that he just replaced,

01:13:45   I don't think would support it. But it's something that, yeah,

01:13:49   I mean, if your computer's a couple years old, I think you should be good.

01:13:54   And even if you don't, people on Twitter, I don't know if I've read it anywhere besides

01:13:59   that, apparently you can use it with Bluetooth off if it's plugged in, if it's hardwired.

01:14:06   I don't know if that's actually accurate or not, because people on Twitter were talking

01:14:09   about it, so I thought I'd bring that up as well as maybe a possible solution if you have

01:14:14   an older Mac floating around.

01:14:16   Yeah, cuz the trackpad the lightning port is not on the bottom. It's on the front, right?

01:14:22   You couldn't use the mouse, but you could use the keyboard and trackpad with little lightning

01:14:25   Cables out to them. So yeah

01:14:29   Yeah, so yeah, there we go. That's kind of the stuff today. I'm looking forward to picking up my new iMac

01:14:35   I will say this now if you are interested in buying a Mac Pro and a 25 inch Dell monitor

01:14:40   Just let me know like I'm gonna be selling this stuff

01:14:44   And I will have I most likely will eventually put it on eBay, but I hate the thought of doing that

01:14:49   So if you're interested contact me

01:14:51   Maybe over Twitter or via email or whatever

01:14:54   My cat really got a femme and we can talk about it

01:14:57   How many stickers are on the Mac Pro none, but I can put some on if it oh, don't do that

01:15:03   It is completely clean this thing and it has been well taken care of

01:15:07   But I can do the Mac Pro and the monitor for a good price. We could talk about it if you're interested

01:15:13   Cool.

01:15:14   Mama's got to pay back that iMac price.

01:15:17   Yeah, there is that.

01:15:20   So Myke, you're ordering one.

01:15:21   I mean Federico, you had an iMac at one point?

01:15:25   I still have my iMac.

01:15:27   Still do.

01:15:28   Is it just sitting in a corner like with a shirt over it?

01:15:30   Yes.

01:15:31   No, not sure, but it is sitting in a corner in my parents' house.

01:15:34   No one's touching it.

01:15:36   It's just there accumulating dust every year.

01:15:40   And I'm thinking that eventually I will have to buy a new Mac because to record podcasts

01:15:46   basically I'm not using my Mac anymore, everyone knows this story.

01:15:51   My MacBook Air is slowly dying.

01:15:54   I had to buy a new MagSafe this week because my old one also broke, the cable just fell

01:15:59   off.

01:16:01   And it's dying, it's like watching someone slowly fade away, which is a sad metaphor

01:16:07   but that's what's happening here.

01:16:12   Yeah well eventually I will buy a Macbook but my money is on an iPad Pro next so as

01:16:21   long as this is able to go to the login screen and access my desktop, open Safari, Skype

01:16:29   and QuickTime and Slack I will be fine.

01:16:32   When the day comes that you know I can no longer do this I will go to the Apple Store

01:16:37   and get a MacBook. It's interesting to me to kind of watch everyone's reactions to these

01:16:44   new computers. They look like fantastic machines, you know. Right now this place is powerful,

01:16:51   new accessories, pricey but cool. I just, and I don't say this to sound like a pretentious

01:16:59   guy just, you know, judging everyone, but I just don't care anymore. They're not the

01:17:03   computers for me. As I imagine Mac people don't care about the iPad Pro.

01:17:07   It's just to you know on the same show two completely different perspectives

01:17:12   that's interesting to me. I think like you're making the right choice to go

01:17:15   with the with the iMac. It is totally the computer for you I think.

01:17:21   Especially because you haven't had a desktop right now Mac. But yeah you know

01:17:27   this is not my kind of stuff. I'm just waiting for a new iPad and watching

01:17:34   this MacBook abandon me every day more and more. We will have some kind of

01:17:40   funeral I guess when it's all over. We will sing a song, we will say

01:17:44   goodbye. Give a 12 iPad salute or something. There will be like a ceremony

01:17:50   with all my iPads and iPhones saying goodbye but still holding up new

01:17:55   MagSafe so it's kind of putting new juice into the MacBook. Yeah but you know

01:18:01   the iMacs are cool just not for me. I have to say when I was transferring the

01:18:06   money between my accounts today to buy this thing I was looking at what was

01:18:10   left in the iPad Pro fund and I was like "Oh, okay, pay attention to that one!"

01:18:16   Oh man, don't even mention it because I will have to buy an iPad Pro 64, cellular,

01:18:22   smart keyboard and pencil and no 64 my friend 32 or one oh yeah 128 then yeah

01:18:31   starting at 32 why not 64 120 yeah that's just stupid you know it's just

01:18:36   stupid just I'm gonna have to reason 128 because I can't live over 32 yeah yeah

01:18:41   yeah and that's why we're doing it Myke right you just explained I know but it's

01:18:46   nothing and then I have to get the pencil on the keyboard it's gonna I'm

01:18:48   basically going to be bumping up against my iMac price again.

01:18:52   Yeah.

01:18:53   And you know, you won't be able to record podcasts on it, Myke.

01:18:57   That's true.

01:18:58   I had a thought about the iPad Pro yesterday.

01:19:01   My wife and I spent the weekend out of town and we're driving back.

01:19:04   Yesterday in the second half of the drive she drove, I had my email situation was out

01:19:09   of control so I just sat in the passenger seat with my iPad which is on AT&T and just

01:19:15   I just did some email on my iPad Air 2 and definitely felt like a Federico moment of

01:19:21   working in the car.

01:19:22   But also I definitely was like, man, an iPad Pro would be really nice right now.

01:19:27   Just like bigger screen, split view.

01:19:29   My wife driving so I can get work done on an iPad.

01:19:32   That's the dream, Steven.

01:19:34   Yeah, so I had the thought of like, I've gone from not interested in the iPad Pro to like,

01:19:40   I might check it out.

01:19:42   So we'll see how that goes.

01:19:44   But I definitely just had a moment yesterday, I was like, "Man, a bigger iPad would be awesome

01:19:49   right now."

01:19:50   Yeah, I'm definitely becoming more interested.

01:19:55   I can attest to the fact of how productive Steven was.

01:19:58   I think he sent more things to me than he has done in the entire week, so you definitely

01:20:02   do a lot of work when you're at that thing.

01:20:04   Are you saying, Myke, that you want to convince your girlfriend to drive you around so you

01:20:09   can get work done and reply to emails?

01:20:11   No, I can reply to emails from wherever I am.

01:20:14   I don't need to be driven around in a car to do it.

01:20:17   You know, I'm very productive.

01:20:20   If you only had the email client that you're looking for, Myke.

01:20:23   Please, let's not talk about that right now.

01:20:26   Too soon.

01:20:27   I don't want to get into that.

01:20:28   I really don't want to get into that.

01:20:29   It's horrible.

01:20:30   I have three apps giving me push notifications right now.

01:20:34   Oh my God, why?

01:20:35   It's because I'm trying to…

01:20:37   But at least some of the notifications for two of them.

01:20:41   No, because I'm also testing the notifications.

01:20:45   That's a bit too much, Myke.

01:20:47   You're going too far. Notifications are still the same notifications.

01:20:52   You'd like to think so, wouldn't you?

01:20:55   I know so. You're just doing too much, Myke.

01:20:59   I'm sorry.

01:21:01   Steven, take us home.

01:21:03   I think that's it for this week on Connected, but you do the show closing, so I don't know what to say.

01:21:09   day. We're just done. I wanted to test you to see if you could pick it up but you really

01:21:13   couldn't so. I can't do it. You got an F on that one. If you want to find the show notes

01:21:18   for this week, it's not difficult, you just go to relay.fm/connected/61 if you want to

01:21:22   find us all online there's some great places to do that. You can find Federico's work over

01:21:26   at maxstories.net and Steven's over at 512pixels.net. If you want to find us all on Twitter, also

01:21:32   very very simple, you can find @Vittici on Twitter and as me and Steven mentioned at

01:21:37   top of the show, we both put silly eyes in our names. Stephen is @ismh and I am @imyke on Twitter.

01:21:43   Thanks again to our great sponsors for this week's episode, the lovely people over at Fracture,

01:21:49   Igloo and Braintree for helping make this episode possible. Most of all, thank you for listening,

01:21:54   don't forget to download the Relay FM apps, you can join us live every week and also see

01:21:59   when we're going to be streaming via our shows page where you get a lovely schedule.

01:22:03   So, until next time, thanks for listening.

01:22:06   Say goodbye, guys.

01:22:07   Arrivederci.