55: Whatever it's Called This Week


00:00:00   [Intro music]

00:00:07   From Relay FM, this is Connected, episode number 55.

00:00:12   Today's show is brought to you by Igloo, an internet you'll actually like, and Lynda.com.

00:00:17   Instantly stream thousands of courses created by industry experts.

00:00:21   My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined by Mr. Steven Hackett.

00:00:24   Hello, Mr. Hackett.

00:00:25   Hello, Mr. Hurley.

00:00:27   And Mr. Federico Vadicci.

00:00:29   Hello Mr. Hackett and Hurley.

00:00:32   Hello Federico, how are you today?

00:00:34   I'm doing well, how are you?

00:00:36   I'm good, I'm excited about the show.

00:00:38   We've got an action packed full lineup for the episode today.

00:00:43   I am back in the room of the Roomba.

00:00:46   Uh oh.

00:00:47   Yeah, it's right here underneath my desk.

00:00:51   What did you do to him last time?

00:00:53   Turned him on.

00:00:54   I poked him and he made a noise.

00:00:59   Now it's resting and there's a green light.

00:01:01   I'm not touching it.

00:01:02   No touching.

00:01:03   You know?

00:01:04   I think what you need to do is set your iPhone up on it and then just periscope it driving

00:01:08   around the house.

00:01:09   Okay, hold on.

00:01:10   That's in Parks and Rec, right?

00:01:12   Where they put the little DJ Roomba.

00:01:14   Yeah, DJ Roomba.

00:01:16   Yeah, they put like a jam box something on it and it just plays music from an iPod.

00:01:22   No, wow.

00:01:23   That's a great show.

00:01:24   Yeah, I love that show.

00:01:25   If you haven't seen Parks and Rec, watch Parks and Rec.

00:01:28   Do it.

00:01:29   - It has a very satisfying conclusion.

00:01:31   - Yep.

00:01:32   - Very satisfying.

00:01:33   - How many seasons can I watch?

00:01:35   - Seven.

00:01:36   - Seven?

00:01:37   - Okay, I like to watch shows

00:01:40   that give me quite a bit of episodes.

00:01:42   - Oh this--

00:01:43   - So it's not like I'm starting a new show,

00:01:44   I get all emotional and attached to it,

00:01:46   and then like after two seasons it's over.

00:01:48   So you know, seven seasons it's a good number.

00:01:52   - Seven seasons, there isn't a bad season in my opinion.

00:01:55   It is excellent throughout.

00:01:58   So, watch it. You've got the whole thing and it's got a satisfying end.

00:02:03   It's true.

00:02:04   I'm terrified of the titles already.

00:02:07   Me too. So it's connected. And I for one am glad that we're now in September. August is

00:02:14   such a slow month in this industry.

00:02:16   Are you glad?

00:02:17   I mean, I have a lot of work to do. I was looking at my OmniFocus today and it's like

00:02:22   like, just a disaster. But stuff's happening. We're going to talk about some Apple TV stuff

00:02:28   today, talk about what's coming. The next couple of weeks are going to be very busy

00:02:31   and I for one welcome our new busyness overlords.

00:02:35   >> Do you?

00:02:37   >> How you doing, buddy? You sound defeated.

00:02:40   >> Oh my God, I'm so, I don't know how I'm feeling. Like, I think I'm exhausted, but

00:02:46   I'm also kind of twitchy and energetic because I got to finish all of this. It's probably

00:02:51   much caffeine in my body since, you know, it's been a stressful couple of weeks, you

00:02:56   know, and I don't know what I'm thinking or feeling anymore. I'm like a robot and all

00:03:02   I can do is type and, you know, I don't know. I don't know.

00:03:07   You're a typing robot. You're like Mavis Beacon.

00:03:11   I'm like who? Never mind, Federica.

00:03:14   That's one of your sci-fi references, isn't it?

00:03:16   Sure, sure. We'll go with that. A sci-fi reference.

00:03:20   always do that kind of stuff. Like superheroes and all these other things that I don't understand

00:03:26   like pants or US politics.

00:03:30   I know nothing about US politics.

00:03:33   You somewhat know about US politics. You drop the occasional US politics material.

00:03:41   Maybe Speacons in Star Wars.

00:03:43   Oh yeah, that, that, yeah, yeah, yeah. I just…

00:03:48   I'm trolling you man. That's terrible. That's terrible, Myke.

00:03:52   Mavis Beacon is an app, it's like a program, a PC program to help you learn how to type.

00:04:00   A PC what?

00:04:02   Yeah, it's a program. You know before they were called apps,

00:04:05   they were called programs or software that teaches you how to type. That's what Mavis Beacon is.

00:04:10   Are you still trolling me?

00:04:12   I'm gonna put a chat in the IRC for you to see.

00:04:15   - Mavis Beacon.

00:04:17   - Teach his typing.

00:04:18   - This is the weirdest intro to a show.

00:04:20   - Please, please, not the follow up.

00:04:23   - This is like Encarta, the Microsoft, you know,

00:04:27   Wikipedia thing, I don't know.

00:04:30   It's an application software program.

00:04:32   Geez, so many words.

00:04:34   Anyway. (laughs)

00:04:37   - Follow up? - Yes.

00:04:38   - Please. - Yes, please.

00:04:40   - Listener Andrew wants to know,

00:04:42   Michael, have you tried BetterTouchTool?

00:04:46   - No.

00:04:47   People,

00:04:49   (laughing)

00:04:50   I wanted the answer.

00:04:52   People have suggested BetterTouchTool for me

00:04:54   for other things in the past.

00:04:55   As I get older,

00:04:58   - That's like 23.

00:05:01   - Apps like BetterTouchTool make me more nervous.

00:05:06   You know, this is an app that is doing stuff

00:05:09   that probably shouldn't be done.

00:05:12   And these things make me nervous now.

00:05:14   As I use my computers to generate my income solely,

00:05:19   I try not to tinker with them too much.

00:05:22   And I know what BetterTouchTool could do for me

00:05:24   now that I know it could actually be,

00:05:25   because I just thought it was just for the trackpad.

00:05:27   I didn't know you could also assign keyboard stuff

00:05:29   and mouse clicks and things like that.

00:05:31   I mean, it's there and I'm sure the store offer could do

00:05:34   and you could do application specific things,

00:05:36   but I don't really need application specific things

00:05:39   because the shortcuts that I have set up

00:05:41   work pretty well everywhere, so it works for me.

00:05:44   I understand why someone would suggest this.

00:05:46   Maybe this is something that people could suggest

00:05:48   if they, you know, they could use it

00:05:49   if they don't want the amazing Logitech MX Master Mouse

00:05:52   that I have now and love so dearly.

00:05:55   But if, you know, if you don't wanna get one of those things

00:05:58   look at Better Touch Tool, but be warned,

00:06:01   it may eat your computer from the inside.

00:06:03   - I feel sort of the same way.

00:06:06   And I used to run a lot more sort of stuff that did this,

00:06:11   right, that's like doing low level things.

00:06:13   And I don't, I have not really tried

00:06:16   baretouch tool in a long time.

00:06:17   But I do have to say that I did order,

00:06:20   after hearing you talk about it,

00:06:21   and talking about Uncortex,

00:06:23   ordered the Logitech Master, is that what it's called?

00:06:27   - That Logitech MX Master.

00:06:28   I think a lot of people have done that.

00:06:31   Having heard me speak about it

00:06:32   on like three different shows for a week.

00:06:35   but it really is an incredible thing.

00:06:38   - So I've got one in the mail, in the post.

00:06:42   - Yeah.

00:06:43   - In the UPS truck.

00:06:44   So I'm looking forward to trying it

00:06:47   'cause I have the same Logitech Performance MX that you had.

00:06:50   You and I are the same mouse and you seem

00:06:52   like you like this one so I'm gonna give it a shot.

00:06:56   - Do it.

00:06:57   - We have some follow up also about the iPad Pro.

00:07:00   We had a bunch of people write in and tweet

00:07:02   different possible users for the iPad Pro. You know we spoke about about

00:07:07   designers and artists and this feedback sort of settled into three categories so

00:07:12   you can have like enterprise-y office people, people doing paperwork, doing a

00:07:17   lot of documents that may be a nicer iPad. Especially with a stylus would make

00:07:20   things like data entry more possible. Sales reps which I think is sort of the

00:07:26   same type of use where you can you can work with things like Salesforce out in

00:07:31   the field and then one that I can't believe we didn't think of the medical

00:07:35   profession of doctors and nurses and actually have a story about this I have

00:07:39   a good friend of mine who is physically finishing up his residency and when he

00:07:45   started it basically everyone was given an iPad mini that was hooked up to the

00:07:50   hospital's medical record system so they could be you know with a patient and

00:07:56   the iPad they did the iPad mini because it fit in their coat pockets like the

00:07:59   white doctor coats and so they could slide in their pocket and pull it out

00:08:02   and they could look at scans just with a patient and go over medication and have

00:08:07   it all basically right you know right with them all the time and because it

00:08:11   was hooked up to the like the overall system it was always up to date so they

00:08:16   could check in with things and see what other patients were doing and his

00:08:19   experience with it was very positive and he's really spoke highly about that not

00:08:25   only the connection that it gave you because you could do that on a laptop

00:08:28   but in a way that you could sort of share the device with a patient if

00:08:31   you're looking at something and I think this is a really powerful thing I think

00:08:34   you know an iPad Pro obviously would lose some of the portability especially

00:08:38   of the mini but if you're looking at scans with somebody or looking at you

00:08:41   know imagery having something bigger that you can sit kind of next to

00:08:45   somebody on a bed and look at it with them I think is a really really powerful

00:08:48   thing yeah what do you guys think they I mean the enterprise stuff the business

00:08:55   stuff makes sense. I think I mentioned about working in advertising and

00:08:59   like sales, so like you know people in advertising and how I started to see

00:09:05   surfaces everywhere, but the doctors and nurses stuff is something I never would

00:09:10   have thought of on my own and I think that's a really interesting use. I think

00:09:13   it's just that those are the types of things that you can start to do when you

00:09:18   have a product that starts to bridge the gap a little bit more, you know? Like it's

00:09:24   still an iPad so it has all the benefits of an iPad but with a bigger screen and

00:09:28   potentially a lot more horsepower even more incredible. I mean you always see

00:09:32   these like medical apps right? You imagine like with more RAM and all that and just

00:09:37   like more just in general like more horsepower how incredible that stuff

00:09:40   could be like the 3D visualizing stuff of the human body and all that kind of

00:09:45   coolness and having like a little pen on there so people could take notes just

00:09:48   patron notes and go up to the central computer like that sort of stuff just

00:09:53   seems even better with a device like this, I guess.

00:09:57   The only thing that worries me is for professions that depend on portability of the iPad.

00:10:05   So if the iPad Pro really is almost a 13-inch device, carrying it around probably isn't

00:10:13   as easy as an iPad Mini.

00:10:15   As you mentioned, Steven, doctors using an iPad Mini because it fits in their pockets.

00:10:19   I wonder if the same can be true with an iPad Pro.

00:10:22   more comfortable when you sit down so you know two people can look at the screen and

00:10:27   I imagine you know even the split view on the iPad Pro if you wanna you know in the

00:10:31   case of a doctor and a patient you can put up a scan on the left side of the screen and

00:10:37   maybe an explanation or some notes on the right side and in that case an iPad Pro for

00:10:42   collaboration and sitting down is better but what about you know walking around with an

00:10:47   iPad Pro because it feels like you know it's a big screen.

00:10:50   So my primary concern is how is Apple going to pitch the portable factor of the device.

00:10:59   That's so important for the iPad mini and the iPad Air.

00:11:03   I'm curious.

00:11:04   Maybe it's not a problem.

00:11:05   Maybe it's so light you don't even notice it's a 13-inch device.

00:11:08   I don't know.

00:11:09   Maybe they'll make a lanyard.

00:11:12   Maybe.

00:11:13   Like the iPad shuffle?

00:11:14   Yep, or the Nano or whatever.

00:11:16   Maybe they can put some wheels underneath and you can use it as a skateboard.

00:11:19   - Oh, I like you.

00:11:21   (laughing)

00:11:22   - I think the Roomba's getting to you.

00:11:23   (laughing)

00:11:26   Well, we, as you might imagine,

00:11:28   we also have some follow-up about BlaBlaCar,

00:11:30   which we spoke-- - Of course we do.

00:11:32   - Last week, which Federico discovered in his vacation

00:11:36   being a ride-sharing service.

00:11:38   Sort of, not so much the Uber model, but based around,

00:11:40   hey, I need to go to this city on this day.

00:11:43   Who else needs to go?

00:11:44   And sort of figuring out from there.

00:11:46   A couple tweets I wanted to call out.

00:11:49   The first one talking about the service being big in France and Europe and how they're already

00:11:56   expanding in Latin America and Asia, which is pretty cool.

00:11:59   It's from...

00:12:00   - Thibaut.

00:12:01   - Mm-hmm.

00:12:02   - Your French game, Myke, is on top.

00:12:07   - I like that Steven didn't understand even what I'm saying.

00:12:11   - No, he just sat there, like blank stare for two seconds, and he was like, "Mm-hmm."

00:12:18   I was trying to help you.

00:12:20   - I appreciate that.

00:12:21   Please, fix it in post.

00:12:23   And Jeff tweets, says, "Just be careful with car sharing

00:12:29   "in the UK, you may invalidate your insurance

00:12:31   "by receiving payment from passengers."

00:12:34   - But it's not like Myke knows.

00:12:36   Nothing about cars.

00:12:38   - Or has a car or a driving license.

00:12:40   - Or an insurance for cars.

00:12:43   - But that is interesting, 'cause here in the States,

00:12:48   Uber is facing, Uber and Lyft are facing issues

00:12:51   moving into cities and like the whole like personal vehicle

00:12:56   uses a cab type laws.

00:12:58   It's been a big thing here in Memphis where the city

00:13:01   basically told Uber and Lyft to stop operating

00:13:04   but then they sort of ignored that and are still operating.

00:13:07   It's sort of that same idea like if you're using

00:13:10   a personal vehicle for non-personal vehicle type things

00:13:14   like where does that fall?

00:13:15   And so I didn't even think about insurance

00:13:17   and we were talking about it,

00:13:18   but I could see that being a factor there

00:13:19   where you got a bunch of people in your car

00:13:21   who wouldn't be there otherwise,

00:13:23   you know what happens if something terrible happens.

00:13:27   - Well, what if you say they are your friends

00:13:29   and you lie about using blah blah car?

00:13:32   That's what I would do.

00:13:35   - I think that would be insurance fraud for one.

00:13:38   - That's what that is.

00:13:39   - So Federica's going to jail.

00:13:41   - No, no, no, I'm not using blah blah car.

00:13:44   Not even touching it, but you know.

00:13:45   What about blah blah Roomba?

00:13:48   So you could, hey could you bring your Roomba to my house?

00:13:52   - What about blah blah room?

00:13:54   And you just, you know guys I got a house,

00:13:56   wanna come over?

00:13:58   - That's--

00:13:59   - That's probably the setup for, you know,

00:14:02   a crazy killer or stalker, you know?

00:14:04   - I think that's Airbnb, man.

00:14:06   - That's not how it works because you leave your house

00:14:11   to someone else.

00:14:13   - No, you can be in it.

00:14:15   - You can be any, really?

00:14:16   Never happened to me.

00:14:17   - You can do Airbnb with just a room.

00:14:20   - Oh.

00:14:20   - Yeah.

00:14:22   - I don't know.

00:14:22   I didn't know that.

00:14:23   See?

00:14:24   I accidentally invented a business that already exists.

00:14:28   Should be a video.

00:14:30   - It's the best kind of invention, really.

00:14:31   (laughing)

00:14:32   - I wanted to point out quickly,

00:14:35   we talked about this this time last year,

00:14:38   but something that's close to my heart

00:14:40   is Childhood Cancer Awareness Month.

00:14:43   that is the month of September. So we have a link in the show notes to a page on my

00:14:47   site where I talk a little bit about that. I've once again donated my RSS

00:14:52   sponsorship to raise money for St. Jude this year and as of my sentence right

00:14:57   now we're about $2,600 raised already from the beginning of the month which is

00:15:01   just super awesome so it would be really cool if you go check that out and donate

00:15:06   if you like, it'd be much appreciated.

00:15:11   So yeah, it'd be really cool.

00:15:14   - Please do that. Where can they go for that?

00:15:15   Give them the URL as well as the show notes.

00:15:19   - You can find the link on my site,

00:15:20   512pixels.net/september.

00:15:24   And I talk about there and there's a big link

00:15:27   over to the St. Jude website

00:15:28   because the URL they give you is atrocious.

00:15:30   - Yeah, you can't do nothing with this.

00:15:32   - No.

00:15:33   I'm gonna donate some more money to you right now.

00:15:37   - Well it's not to me.

00:15:38   - Well I know it's not to you.

00:15:39   It's two cent dude via you.

00:15:42   - Yes, I appreciate that.

00:15:43   I'm running the 5K this year, so I've never,

00:15:46   they do a marathon, I have a marathon in 5K every year.

00:15:49   I've always just been a spectator.

00:15:51   And this year I'm going to run the 5K,

00:15:53   which I've never done before,

00:15:54   so I'm doing the couch to 5K thing.

00:15:57   There's some really great apps out for that,

00:15:58   which I wanna talk about with you guys at some point.

00:16:01   But, so it's fun to be using some iPhone apps

00:16:04   to help make this run be something

00:16:06   that won't kill me in December.

00:16:08   - I have to say, when I saw the email come through,

00:16:13   like where you first were speaking about this,

00:16:16   I was very surprised to see that it said

00:16:18   that you were gonna run.

00:16:20   And I had been meaning to bring it up with you,

00:16:22   but haven't yet.

00:16:23   And so that's interesting to me,

00:16:26   'cause I didn't know that you did that.

00:16:28   - I really don't like running.

00:16:31   - No, no.

00:16:32   - But I wanna do it with my wife, Mary,

00:16:35   runs it every year.

00:16:36   She's in the half marathon, she's into the 5K this year,

00:16:38   and so we're gonna do it together.

00:16:40   And it's gonna, so far training is not very pleasant.

00:16:44   So, hopefully it gets better, I've heard it gets better,

00:16:47   so we'll see.

00:16:48   - So donate.

00:16:50   - Please.

00:16:51   - Right, should we take a break

00:16:52   and then jump into the rest of our topics this week?

00:16:54   - Sounds good.

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00:19:41   So we have and running up to the fall Apple event which is just a couple weeks

00:19:49   away we have some some interesting stuff but this time of the year is always fun

00:19:54   because companies like swoop in and make announcements right before other

00:19:57   companies do. We had a little bit of that this week with Android Wear. Google

00:20:03   announced yesterday that it is coming to iOS which is has been rumored but seems

00:20:09   like it's it's here now. Do you guys read about this thing? I did and I from

00:20:14   reading Google's blog didn't really get much from it so I also watched a video

00:20:19   that Dieter Bohn put together on The Verge which I'll also include in the

00:20:22   show notes which helped shine a little bit more light on what's going on here. I

00:20:26   would say I can see the new Google logo. Does everybody like the new Google logo?

00:20:30   Yes I do. Looks good right? It's fun. I feel like it's a nice refreshment. It

00:20:37   fits along with the Alphabet brand, the overall big brand that they've got for

00:20:40   alphabet and it's about time I think. When you look at it I'm like yes that

00:20:44   looks like 2015 the old Google logo looks like 10 years ago and I like that

00:20:49   they've also got it on the page you know the G which is what they're gonna use on

00:20:52   mobile so that's like their main logo now really the multi-coloured G. I think

00:20:57   it looks really sweet I think it's a nice little nice little thing. As usual

00:21:00   people really get really upset and snarky about these sorts of things but I

00:21:03   just wanted to shine a bit of happiness upon this logo because I like it. But

00:21:07   anyway so from what I've been able to understand from this it seems like

00:21:12   Android Wear is like halfway between a pebble and an Apple watch like it does

00:21:21   more than the pebble can do but is restrained in some similar ways that the

00:21:26   pebble is but is able to talk to Google's apps and services to provide a

00:21:31   bit more plus it can seem to be able to do a lot more just on the watch itself

00:21:36   then the Pebble can do. So it seems like that there is a bit of a mishmash here.

00:21:43   I don't really know why Google have done this. Like you look at these kinds of

00:21:47   things and it feels a little bit like Apple wouldn't do this. Why has

00:21:53   Google felt the need to do this? Like how many people are gonna buy an Android

00:21:58   like are gonna own an iPhone and buy an Android Wear Watch? Like why would you do

00:22:06   that I don't understand. It feels like they want to make the life of tech

00:22:10   bloggers easier you know there's literally no real person who would buy an

00:22:15   iPhone and an Android Wear smartwatch. Like their reasoning for it which I

00:22:21   understand a bit I suppose in that and it's true there are more styles right so

00:22:27   if you don't like if you don't like rectangular watches and you want a

00:22:32   circular watch right you can get one or you want one with a different material

00:22:36   or just a different design in overall you can get that but it I don't know and

00:22:43   they're cheaper I suppose right in some instances so that might be a thing but

00:22:47   it feels like a real like stretch to assume that this is gonna make a big

00:22:52   impact like if if Android wear is so good like if Google saying that

00:22:57   everywhere is really so good make it a reason people buy Android phones like

00:23:01   don't, my feeling anyways, don't put these devices here when they're like they

00:23:06   they're always gonna feel hobbled and people will blame Google right?

00:23:11   It's not Google's fault. So it's like it feels like an interesting thing. So

00:23:16   should we run through some of what it can do? So it can get your notifications.

00:23:19   Google's doing some stuff to respect iOS notification settings. Like they'll give

00:23:24   you a notification, they'll show it to you but it won't buzz if it doesn't buzz

00:23:28   on your phone for example. They have Google Now built in and it has like this

00:23:32   really weird on in the watch web browser to give the results because it can't do

00:23:37   it otherwise. It's not like with the way that it works on Android where it like

00:23:41   there's a difference there but I'm not sure what it is but it's doing something

00:23:45   strange of a little web browser. It can do like the voice search of Google Now

00:23:50   the cards of Google Now, fitness tracking, there are no third-party Android Wear

00:23:56   apps yet I feel like this will probably come later because there would have to be something

00:24:00   slightly different and it has as I mentioned earlier a real better tie in with Google's

00:24:07   apps so probably better than maybe the Apple Watch Google Watch app.

00:24:14   Hang on let me say that again.

00:24:16   The Google apps on Apple Watch will probably ever have as well.

00:24:19   I reckon that even with the hobbled functionality that the Android Wear stuff can have, I would

00:24:27   expect that Android Wear Google Apps will probably always be better because it's just

00:24:31   the way they built them, right?

00:24:33   They've been built around the idea of the material design and all that sort of stuff.

00:24:36   So if you are an all-in on Google person, this seems like an interesting idea, but it

00:24:42   kind of feels like outside of the Google ecosystem, there maybe isn't so much there for you.

00:24:48   Yeah I think I think all that's all that's accurate you know the there's

00:24:56   benefits to using a bunch of Google apps on your phone because they all can sort

00:25:02   of talk to each other and if you sign in to the Gmail app then the Google Drive

00:25:06   app knows about that account that sort of thing and and the Android aware is

00:25:10   taking advantage of some of that so if you have replaced a lot of first-party

00:25:14   apps with Google apps then this works better but if you're using a bunch of

00:25:18   first party apps or non-Google apps,

00:25:21   strapping this thing to your wrist is gonna be less useful.

00:25:24   So they're really trying to target the people

00:25:27   who are using iOS but are super into Google stuff.

00:25:31   And I know those people exist,

00:25:33   but it doesn't seem like a very big market to me,

00:25:37   relatively speaking.

00:25:39   So I do, I agree with you, Myke.

00:25:40   I do sort of wonder what this is about, to a degree.

00:25:43   - I would argue that if you have an iPhone

00:25:47   and you're into Google Apps and services.

00:25:50   I am into some of those.

00:25:52   And I would argue that you would still get a better experience

00:25:55   if you're looking for a smartwatch with an Apple Watch.

00:25:59   Once Google starts making Apple Watch apps,

00:26:01   and you've got to believe that they're going to have some,

00:26:04   especially with watchOS 2, you'd still

00:26:07   get a better Google experience with a native watchOS app

00:26:10   from Google than with this kind of work-around

00:26:15   with the Android Wear and an iPhone.

00:26:18   So I really don't understand.

00:26:20   It would make much more sense if Google really just wants

00:26:23   data from iPhone users who are looking for a smartwatch,

00:26:27   they should start making watchOS 2 apps.

00:26:30   That's just-- especially now that they can access sensors,

00:26:34   at least in a limited fashion, they're

00:26:36   not going to be able to have the kind of integration

00:26:38   that Apple has with the Apple Watch hardware.

00:26:41   But they don't have the same integration on the iPhone.

00:26:44   So that didn't stop them from making iPhone and iPad apps.

00:26:49   And I think it would be better and more practically useful

00:26:53   for them to start making native Apple Watch apps.

00:26:56   I really don't see the point of this kind of hack.

00:27:00   - It's an interesting move.

00:27:05   Again, I don't think either of us,

00:27:08   any of us really understand the reasoning for it.

00:27:12   I see what you're saying,

00:27:13   But like I feel like that Google had the ability to make the potentially make the

00:27:19   Android Wear apps better for their stuff. Who knows? I mean I don't know how they're

00:27:24   gonna tie them in together but they're doing something to tie them in together.

00:27:27   But one way or another I mean like so going back to apps actually for a second

00:27:33   I mean we've all complained about apps on the Apple Watch but so if you take

00:27:38   apps out of the discussion just the fact that the Apple Watch ties in so heavily

00:27:43   with iOS and the customization you can do to it. Just kind of set it up the way

00:27:46   that you want and the way that you want your notifications to come in and stuff.

00:27:49   That feels like it's always gonna be better than what Google could ever do.

00:27:54   Because like what about like interactive notifications that you can use with the

00:28:01   Apple Watch? You're not gonna be able to do those with Android Wear right? So even

00:28:06   just stuff you can do notifications doesn't feel like it's gonna be as good.

00:28:10   Yeah, I think that's a little gray because in the video it seemed like they were showing

00:28:15   that you could do that. And my understanding is, you know, I was eight offer some limited.

00:28:22   Yeah, you can put some buttons in notifications. So it may be that that stuff carries over.

00:28:28   But the more the more rich experience that you have on the watch where I can, you know,

00:28:33   if I have a notification, I can respond with pre selected text and that sort of thing may

00:28:37   may not be there. Again it seems even watching the video I'm still a little

00:28:42   confused on some of the details and I agree with you the blog post was

00:28:44   basically useless. Yeah but um I feel like that they're probably purposefully

00:28:49   glossing over the bad points right? Yeah what are they gonna say yeah oh this is

00:28:56   crippled. Go buy it. By the way guys it sucks. I mean it's not a criticism that they are they're doing that

00:29:02   because they kind of have to but it's like you know so it's not gonna be clear

00:29:06   to us what it can and can't do because they're not being so helpful with that, right?

00:29:11   Because they're not going to offer up that information, I suppose.

00:29:14   I really can't wait for Google to take the Apple Watch seriously and make native watch

00:29:18   apps.

00:29:19   They could be though, I mean we don't know that they're not.

00:29:22   Yeah, yeah, they could be and I hope they are because it totally makes sense, you know?

00:29:28   There are some Google apps on the iPhone that are much, much better than similar solutions

00:29:32   from Apple.

00:29:33   You could argue that Gmail and Google inbox are much better than Apple Mail.

00:29:38   If you're looking for, you know, if you use Gmail and you need the intelligence of Google

00:29:43   services, there's no contest between Apple Mail and inbox or Gmail.

00:29:48   And I really want to see them making watch apps, because I feel like they could make

00:29:52   some great stuff, especially with watchOS 2, so I'm hopeful.

00:29:58   Google are always slow.

00:30:00   They are.

00:30:01   Facebook also.

00:30:02   Yeah.

00:30:03   So we'll see what happens.

00:30:05   Alright, should we talk a little bit about Apple TV?

00:30:08   Sounds good.

00:30:09   We've been meaning to get around to this for weeks now.

00:30:11   Which part of the Apple TV?

00:30:13   All of it.

00:30:15   So also the American cable stuff.

00:30:18   That's it.

00:30:19   Yeah, we can talk about that.

00:30:21   Yeah, so I can have it divided between hardware, like what a new Apple TV is rumored to do,

00:30:28   and then software, including the cable service and games.

00:30:31   So there's a bunch of links in the show notes to 9to5, TechCrunch, BuzzFeed, etc.

00:30:37   And all this all these articles boil down to a new device powered by the A8.

00:30:45   Right now the thing runs an A5 and is can be quite slow at times.

00:30:51   New hardware would come with a new remote which you guys talked a little bit about an

00:30:55   upgrade yesterday.

00:30:57   but the rumors seem to be sort of gelling around,

00:31:01   having some touch controls somewhere

00:31:04   where you can do swipes and gestures perhaps,

00:31:06   and it being Bluetooth, which is really nice.

00:31:08   Right now it's infrared, and you have to be aiming,

00:31:11   you know, you have to have line of sight more or less

00:31:13   from the remote to the Apple TV.

00:31:15   I would love to hide mine, but I can't

00:31:17   because the remote has to see it.

00:31:19   Bluetooth would get around that, of course.

00:31:21   And what else do they say?

00:31:23   More RAM, and then the price is gonna go up.

00:31:26   it'll come in under $200 but if you remember from last year the old Apple TV

00:31:33   went from $99 to $69 so you know adding room in the lineup for something a

00:31:40   little more expensive perhaps. Yeah now maybe keep that $69 one around right

00:31:44   because I think they will TV stuff like the TV streaming service in the future

00:31:48   or whatever. Yeah or maybe they'll keep it until you know they run out of stock

00:31:52   or something and then go away but um if it's always connected to to a wall plug

00:31:58   if it's always you know always on and it uses the A8 CPU will it be dual core or

00:32:06   will it be a three core like the iPad Air 2? I think that gets down to the

00:32:11   software bit I think if it's going to come with an SDK and they're gonna push

00:32:15   gaming it may be you know maybe iPad Air 2 spec'd or iPad Pro or like

00:32:22   whatever the next right right because if you look at how slow they are to update

00:32:26   this hardware like why not give it a little a little push right now so you

00:32:31   get better you know so it ages better as time goes on so it'd be nice it'd be

00:32:36   nice if it I mean who cares if it's you know taking a little more power if it's

00:32:41   plugged in the thing already is like so energy efficient then why not but um so

00:32:47   the Siri thing I think is the most interesting to me and really for only

00:32:51   really for one reason. I'm sure we've all had this where you sit down at the

00:32:54   Apple TV or Roku or something and you're like I want to watch X you know I want

00:32:59   to watch Parks and Rec season 2 like we were talking about earlier and I have to

00:33:03   like go into Netflix and see if Netflix has it. I have to go into Amazon

00:33:08   Prime, I have to go into Hulu Plus, I have to go into these different services and

00:33:11   see who has it. There's no on the Apple TV there's no universal search. Now my

00:33:18   understanding is that Roku, the Kindle TV stuff, and the like the

00:33:23   Microsoft, the Xbox One stuff, they have this universal search even I think

00:33:28   Google TV or Android TV whatever it's called this week has it as well but

00:33:32   Apple TV doesn't and it'd be really great if it did I think. I guess I'm sort

00:33:38   of talking to myself because neither of you guys actually have an Apple TV do you?

00:33:40   No it's funny when you said to me we've all I was like he's addressing the

00:33:44   listener not me and Federico. We've all sat down at our Apple TVs. Yes, yes, every day.

00:33:51   The thing about TV for me is I don't watch movies and TV shows on my TV.

00:33:58   That's one of the few reasons why I use a MacBook is I watch those on my MacBook

00:34:06   with my girlfriend in bed. This is 100% what I do too. And also you know I'm

00:34:13   excited about an iPad Pro for this use case but I don't I don't I don't use the

00:34:20   TV I only use the TV for like the weather forecasts and the the news and

00:34:26   video games and video games yes it's because it's a big monitor so I use it

00:34:30   with my PlayStation 4 and the Wii U but I don't watch gotcha well okay so

00:34:36   so I'm talking to myself to be you are really you've really got to go along on

00:34:40   this one on your own buddy. Yeah sorry Stephen. No it's fine no Siri play Parks

00:34:44   and Rec season 2 like it should be smart enough to know what service has what

00:34:50   content and if you look at what they're doing on iOS 9 with the intelligent

00:34:53   stuff Apple is already searching that sort of stuff on iOS you know in the

00:34:58   beta where I could search for content within apps and so it doesn't seem like

00:35:03   a huge jump to me for the Apple TV to be able to do this and you know I joke that

00:35:07   that you could look at on Amazon Video.

00:35:09   Of course you can't do that on the Apple TV

00:35:11   and I think that's still ridiculous.

00:35:13   - Where do you think that lies?

00:35:14   Do you think that is like,

00:35:15   is there a Cold War kind of scenario

00:35:18   going on here with this? - I don't know, 'cause today,

00:35:20   so just today as we're recording this,

00:35:21   Amazon updated their Amazon Video iOS app

00:35:25   and you can download content within the app.

00:35:27   So I could download a movie on Amazon Prime Video

00:35:31   and watch it on an airplane without data connection.

00:35:33   Clearly Amazon is invested in iOS,

00:35:36   But maybe, you know--

00:35:39   - I feel like this has gotta be on Apple's side, man.

00:35:41   That they're like, nope, you're not doing it.

00:35:43   - Why just Amazon?

00:35:45   - Because you can buy on Amazon too.

00:35:46   - I mean, yeah, and maybe that's what it is.

00:35:50   Maybe Apple says you can only do Prime Video

00:35:52   but you can't purchase anything, and Amazon says no.

00:35:55   We only, you know, those things come together.

00:35:58   And so I don't know, but being able to pick up the remote

00:36:02   say hey Siri play this or even you know play Beats 1 or you know stream this

00:36:11   album or show me this photo stream. It'd be so great because so much of the Apple TV

00:36:16   experience is you're on that dinky little remote and you're you know

00:36:19   pushing those buttons over and over and going through endless menus and

00:36:24   scrolling on something that's not designed to scroll very well and typing

00:36:28   you know I actually have I should have a Bluetooth keyboard paired with my Apple

00:36:30   TV for the search stuff but um it's all just slow so slow and so clunky to to

00:36:37   interact with the thing and being able to do it with Siri assuming the Siri

00:36:42   would work would be so much better I think so much less frustrating so I

00:36:46   really hope this is true and I really hope Apple is pairing it with the

00:36:48   intelligent stuff they're doing in iOS 9 to make it better it's gotta be right

00:36:52   you press a button on the microphone to speak in a button on the remote and

00:36:56   speaking to the remote right? I would hope so. You'd feel like it should be invoked

00:37:01   by a button press, Xbox, the Microsoft or the Xbox show why you can't have it just

00:37:07   always listening because your own ads trigger them right? Or if it senses that

00:37:12   you've picked up the remote you know like on the Apple watch you can just

00:37:15   turn your wrist over and if the screen is on you can say... Sure that works.

00:37:18   Ahoy telephone but um yeah I agree that if the remote's just on the dining room

00:37:23   table and someone shouts, "Oh, a telephone is gonna go off."

00:37:27   - Or just like the TV. I mean, I get that invoked a ton with my Apple Watch just because

00:37:34   the face is on and I'm talking regularly to somebody else and then my Apple Watch is dictating

00:37:40   on its own.

00:37:41   - Yeah. What if your dog's name was Siri and you were just talking to your dog all the

00:37:45   time? That'd be crazy.

00:37:46   - I feel like you shouldn't do that.

00:37:47   - Bad idea.

00:37:48   - I feel like that's a really bad idea.

00:37:51   the so talking about the remote if series of thing you know microphone

00:37:55   built in we have this touch sensitive bit of the rumor where there's some sort

00:37:59   of touchpad on it we have motion tracking which I kind of want to hold

00:38:02   off to get to the gaming stuff but my big concern with it with a more advanced

00:38:07   remote is this going to be more a more expensive remote and anyone who has an

00:38:11   Apple TV has purchased 918 Apple remotes over the years because you lose them

00:38:16   like there's only four of them in my couch right now and like who knows how

00:38:19   long they've been there right there's one under the couch there's one there's

00:38:22   no telling especially with kids if things just disappear and so a remote

00:38:26   that you know is more expensive or even has glass on it for the trackpad like

00:38:30   as someone who like one of the primary users of our Apple TV is like my

00:38:36   five and seven year old I hope this thing is robust and I hope that the

00:38:40   remote is not you know $49 or $69 to replace when inevitably gets broken or

00:38:46   lost but I guess we'll see we'll see how that goes. You gotta have that little

00:38:50   button you can press like on the watch right to find your phone. Find my remote

00:38:55   yeah yeah so I think you know I wonder how many how many of the find my iPhone

00:38:59   uses are like I just don't know where in the house my phone is. Find my phone. My girlfriend

00:39:05   all the time it's one of her favorite features on the Apple watch. Yep I very

00:39:10   frequently am in a room in the house and I hear ding ding ding. I was like oh she lost her phone again.

00:39:16   more since owning an Apple watch because I'm more likely to set my phone down

00:39:19   when I get home and I'll have it you know in my pocket and it's like what

00:39:22   room does that in but um so we just like speak into the watch and have me call

00:39:28   you I mean that seems like I could just I think a lot of work on your part

00:39:35   it's a system I suppose it's a service I'm happy to provide my get Myke is a

00:39:41   iPhone finding service yeah be great I someone the chair and said put it on a

00:39:45   tether like they do pins at the bank. Can only go so far away from the couch.

00:39:51   That's pretty good. So yeah and then we have the the part of the rumor where

00:40:00   they're going to to offer potentially offer a Bluetooth gaming controller

00:40:06   support as well but. Can we talk about game controls right now? I think let's

00:40:11   talk about let's take let's take a break and talk about the service and then

00:40:14   close out with the gaming stuff because I feel like that's gonna be where the exciting part happens.

00:40:18   All right, should I do that now? Let's do that now. This week's episode is brought to you by

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00:43:11   - So the streaming service is a part of this

00:43:17   that's been around for a while.

00:43:20   Some sort of cable killing, cord cutting service

00:43:24   that Apple's providing where you can go in

00:43:26   and you can potentially purchase content

00:43:31   directly from these content companies

00:43:34   as opposed to paying Comcast

00:43:35   and you get a bunch of channels you don't want.

00:43:38   And you know, this rumor's been around for a long time

00:43:40   and it seems that this is not in the cards

00:43:44   for the September event.

00:43:46   Also probably not in the cards for anyone not in the US.

00:43:50   So I don't know what you guys think about this,

00:43:53   but I for one, there's content that I would like to watch

00:43:58   that's on cable TV but I don't wanna pay

00:44:00   for all the other stuff.

00:44:02   I don't want to deal with like a terrible cable box

00:44:05   and everything that comes with that.

00:44:07   And so this sort of service is appealing to me,

00:44:09   but it seems like it's just sort of on a treadmill

00:44:11   and never actually getting here.

00:44:13   - I mean, it's kind of isn't an issue for me.

00:44:17   Like a lot of the programs here,

00:44:20   like there are systems and services

00:44:23   that you can sign up for, all that are free, right?

00:44:27   And you can watch stuff on them,

00:44:28   like all the big TV channels here have their own catch up services like BBC iPlayer being

00:44:35   probably the most famous of them. And then you have like cheap services that like there's

00:44:41   one called Now TV which allows you to watch like movies and sports and some other types

00:44:45   of shows and stuff and you can just pay for that and it's you just pay a subscription

00:44:49   fee for it. But for me personally there are not any TV shows where I'm like oh man I've

00:44:55   got no way to get this like I could just buy it on iTunes like it's not an issue

00:45:00   for me personally and I think it really differs country to country about what

00:45:05   the kind of offerings are anyway so I mean it's like okay if this thing

00:45:10   exists it's great but it also I'm not I'm not gonna see myself wanting to sign

00:45:15   up for something like this it would have to be really great at a really great

00:45:17   price which I doubt that it would tick those boxes I mean I don't even want an

00:45:23   Apple TV. So I mean I don't know what it's gonna be like, what they're gonna

00:45:26   announce, right? Like if the gaming part of it, which again we'll get to in a

00:45:30   moment, if it's gonna be really good then maybe I'll consider it, but I don't want

00:45:35   an Apple TV for anything TV related.

00:45:37   Yeah, same. And I'm pretty sure I won't pay for TV movie content ever again

00:45:44   unless I get some kind of streaming option that's like Apple Music that

00:45:49   gives me everything in a legal way for like $20 a month. I don't want to go broke just

00:45:57   to watch TV shows. That's crazy. I'm sorry. I'm not one of those people saying, "Yeah,

00:46:04   I should get everything for free." But there should be a new way to let more people pay

00:46:11   even less for this stuff, but ultimately you make more money. Basically the streaming model

00:46:16   for music, that's what I want for TV. And until that day comes, and it's not just an

00:46:21   American thing, and it's not just limited to, you know, American TV shows on select

00:46:27   networks, and it's not built on top of those crazy geographical restrictions, I want to

00:46:33   be able to watch TV shows in English, coming from America, in Italy, the same day that

00:46:40   they are out in the States for a very cheap price every month. Is that too crazy?

00:46:46   That's how I feel. I mean like I pay for Netflix because it's not that expensive

00:46:52   and they've got a lot of the interesting stuff on there and I'm an Amazon Prime

00:46:57   customer so I get Prime Instant and they for the majority of stuff that I ever

00:47:02   want to watch they go like 95% of the way. Because I just like watch like you

00:47:08   know what we refer to as box sets here right just like we're watching The

00:47:12   Office right now. I'm just watching all The Office right on like a combination

00:47:18   of Netflix and Amazon and that's fine that's all I need. I don't need like the

00:47:22   most up-to-date of something or other. It's not really it's just not really a

00:47:25   way that both me and Federico are so if they haven't got this service if it

00:47:28   doesn't come to the UK I mean I'm probably gonna be okay with it anyway.

00:47:32   Yeah I mean that you know that's the flip side of this too is they are if

00:47:37   If this is going on to a degree,

00:47:40   they are starting to compete with

00:47:43   these other streaming services in a new way.

00:47:46   And there was this article in Variety just yesterday

00:47:49   about Apple was looking to move into original programming.

00:47:54   This article, according to this article,

00:47:56   they bid on what was Top Gear.

00:48:00   Of course, of course, went to Amazon.

00:48:02   That show will be revived on Amazon Prime Video next year.

00:48:07   I feel like Apple were maybe not completely serious about their bid.

00:48:12   Surely they could have outbid Amazon.

00:48:14   Yeah because if they were really serious about original programming it doesn't happen very

00:48:20   often that the world's most popular TV show comes up for auction.

00:48:25   Like that is a very rare thing to occur right?

00:48:28   So if they were really serious then they would have just paid whatever money it took.

00:48:33   Right.

00:48:34   - I tend to agree with that line of thinking.

00:48:38   But it does sort of raise the question of like,

00:48:40   if Apple's doing all the streaming stuff,

00:48:42   does it make sense for them to move

00:48:44   into original programming?

00:48:45   And there was a huge debate about this

00:48:48   and the relay slack last night.

00:48:50   But my sort of take on it is,

00:48:53   Netflix is doing it, Amazon is doing it.

00:48:56   It is weird in the sense that Apple hasn't done it yet,

00:49:01   but if they are going to be offering a streaming service,

00:49:04   then this seems to be, in 2015, this seems to be part of

00:49:08   what a streaming service means.

00:49:09   Netflix just this week, they lost the Epic Pictures deal

00:49:14   where a lot of movies are leaving Netflix

00:49:16   and Hulu Plus picked that up.

00:49:18   But Netflix is saying, "You know, it's fine.

00:49:20   "We have a lot of TV shows

00:49:22   "and we have a lot of original programming."

00:49:24   Some of the best TV I've seen in the last couple of years

00:49:27   has been Netflix original series stuff.

00:49:30   They're really doing a good job.

00:49:32   And the question is could Apple do this?

00:49:35   And some people on Twitter and the Slack thing

00:49:39   were talking about, well, Apple has all these

00:49:42   sort of old-fashioned rules about content.

00:49:44   Would they do a show but not allow cursing?

00:49:47   Would they do a show but not allow sexuality?

00:49:49   And I think that's sort of a ridiculous statement.

00:49:52   I think that the way that Apple patrols the App Store

00:49:57   and the way that Apple would go about

00:49:59   doing something like this,

00:50:01   obviously different groups of people,

00:50:03   very different priorities.

00:50:05   - Can you buy Game of Thrones on iTunes?

00:50:07   - That's a good question, I can find out.

00:50:10   I know that you can, I mean I've bought

00:50:12   all sorts of crazy stuff on iTunes that's obscene,

00:50:14   but I mean, I think that's the closer model

00:50:18   than the app store of, you know,

00:50:20   can you get these things on iTunes?

00:50:25   Can you stream explicit music?

00:50:27   Yeah, Game of Thrones is right here.

00:50:28   - Right, but then it's not an issue, is it?

00:50:30   because it's a HBO show with all the violence and nudity

00:50:34   that they have on HBO shows.

00:50:36   - Right, and they have the HBO Go app on Apple TV now,

00:50:40   which they made a big deal of last year

00:50:42   when they announced it.

00:50:43   So I think, is Apple gonna be puritanical

00:50:47   with their content?

00:50:48   I think that's sort of a non-starter.

00:50:49   But the idea of Apple owning a studio,

00:50:53   which I really think is what this is, right?

00:50:54   This isn't like Eddy Cue directing a TV show.

00:50:56   This is Apple paying people who make TV to make TV.

00:50:59   - I would watch that, by the way.

00:51:01   - I would, probably a train wreck.

00:51:04   - The same.

00:51:05   - Or the EdiQ office style documentary.

00:51:08   - No, no, no, I wanna watch Glee made by EdiQ.

00:51:11   (laughing)

00:51:14   Sorry, preprescant.

00:51:18   - No, no, I just can't get that picture out of my head

00:51:20   of EdiQ dancing with high school students.

00:51:23   But, so, I don't know, I think if they do a streaming

00:51:27   and this is part of that,

00:51:29   then it doesn't make me worried about Apple

00:51:32   that if Apple gets into this,

00:51:34   that, you know, I don't know.

00:51:37   I just don't think this is as big of a deal

00:51:38   as some people have made it out to be.

00:51:40   I don't know.

00:51:42   You guys have any thoughts on this at all?

00:51:43   I mean, you guys both watch Netflix original stuff.

00:51:46   - I love that kind of stuff.

00:51:48   I think, and I agree with you completely,

00:51:50   like if you are serious about streaming today,

00:51:52   you have to have original content for a couple of reasons.

00:51:55   One, it's expected.

00:51:56   the other, the movie studios can just do anything, go anywhere, do whatever.

00:52:02   And you end up getting outbid.

00:52:04   So if Netflix didn't make like House of Cards and Daredevil and all the stuff that they

00:52:08   make, they would be in hot bother right now.

00:52:12   But they're like, it doesn't even matter because we have like award, multi-award winning TV

00:52:18   shows that you can only get here.

00:52:20   I have a question.

00:52:23   I once read an article about Netflix and it explained that the way that House of Cards

00:52:30   and Orange and all these other Netflix originals are so successful is that Netflix has data

00:52:37   collection policies that tell them exactly what kind of content people may be interested

00:52:43   in because Netflix knew that House of Cards was going to be a success and Netflix knew

00:52:47   that Orange was going to be a success.

00:52:50   Is Apple, if they're going to do originals, will they do this kind of stuff?

00:52:56   Will they use data collection as much as possible to know what kind of trends are coming?

00:53:03   I don't know.

00:53:04   All you've got to do is look at the chart.

00:53:11   The article that I read was maybe a couple of years ago.

00:53:14   Probably a little more sophisticated.

00:53:15   - It's like some crazy stuff Netflix is doing

00:53:18   to understand like what people are searching for.

00:53:21   When, how, like-

00:53:23   - If you build a recommendation engine,

00:53:27   you have this data.

00:53:28   - I don't know, but it's interesting to compare,

00:53:31   you know, Apple approaching areas of entertainment

00:53:35   where data collection, which they usually don't do much,

00:53:39   they do some of it, but not much.

00:53:41   They, even if you look at iOS 9,

00:53:43   they do a lot of on-device processing.

00:53:46   And they say, we don't want your data.

00:53:48   We don't want your data on our servers.

00:53:51   And it's interesting to compare that with original content.

00:53:54   And then you bring in Netflix as a topic of discussion.

00:53:57   But Netflix does all these other things with user data.

00:54:00   And it's interesting as a comparison.

00:54:02   I don't know.

00:54:03   I don't know what I think.

00:54:04   But if they do it, I'm interested in the approach

00:54:08   they take.

00:54:10   I think it's an interesting way of doing things.

00:54:13   I mean I have no problem with that as a customer.

00:54:15   You know what I'm watching.

00:54:18   It's not an issue to then give me stuff I wanna watch.

00:54:21   Make new stuff that I wanna watch.

00:54:24   That's kind of exactly what I pay you money for

00:54:26   at this point.

00:54:27   - Please continue to watch me, basically.

00:54:29   - All right, let's talk about apps and games.

00:54:33   So Steven, what is going on here?

00:54:35   - So you have A8, you have a touch controller,

00:54:41   touch controller, you have Bluetooth gaming controller support which is has

00:54:47   been a part of iOS for a while now. All that seems to be adding up to gaming

00:54:54   coming to the Apple TV and my question is for you guys because I'm not I am at

00:55:01   best a like I have one casual game on my iPhone at a time like I'm not in this world

00:55:05   that you guys live in.

00:55:07   - You are friends with gamers.

00:55:09   - I'm friends with gamers, that's right.

00:55:12   - Put it like that, okay.

00:55:14   - And so, really, I have a couple of questions for you guys,

00:55:17   and maybe really one big question is,

00:55:20   if the Apple TV is sort of stuck in casual gaming land,

00:55:27   is that a viable market?

00:55:31   Could you take a bunch of iOS class games,

00:55:34   games, you know, if this thing is not going to compete with the PlayStation, not going

00:55:38   to compete with the Xbox, which doesn't seem like it's going to, like, can it exist in

00:55:42   this, like, lower end of the market of casual games? Does that make any sense at all? Is

00:55:46   that something that you guys would be interested in having? Or do you think this is a play

00:55:51   for Apple to go after something like PlayStation and we just don't see it yet?

00:55:55   - It can't go off the PlayStation with this.

00:55:58   - That's the problem right there. There's two schools of thought. Basically, there's

00:56:03   There's the people who believe they're gonna go after traditional consoles because they're

00:56:07   gonna die eventually anyway.

00:56:09   And there's people who are sort of more in the middle, they're gonna do casual games,

00:56:14   they're gonna bring in the success of the iOS app store to the living room, and that's

00:56:18   gonna be a problem for consoles, but not directly because the games that people buy on consoles

00:56:24   are not on the app store anyway.

00:56:26   Because part of the reason is like, they are 80 gigabytes, right?

00:56:31   a reason that the PlayStation 4 and the Xbox One have optical drives still. You can download

00:56:36   this stuff, but people tend not to do it still, I think. There's still an incredible amount

00:56:42   of optical discs sold, and the reason for that is the games are massive! And this is

00:56:48   not really a world that Apple seems to be in. Sorry if Federico, continue with the console stuff.

00:56:54   So my thought, as soon as I read the report on the remote, I remember having this discussion

00:57:07   with friends many years ago in 2005 before the Nintendo Wii came out in the public and

00:57:15   we were talking about the remote and the genius of the idea of using an object that a lot

00:57:21   of people are comfortable with, a lot of people know, to kind of reinvent gaming.

00:57:26   And so if we consider the remote as the primary input mechanism of this new Apple TV for games,

00:57:35   is there going to be a new Wii moment for the industry?

00:57:39   Is it going to make it easier for people of all extractions, of all kinds, to approach

00:57:46   gaming in the living room?

00:57:48   So the situation now is much different from 2005.

00:57:52   Ten years later, I would argue there's a lot of people who know video games that didn't

00:57:58   know video games before.

00:58:00   A lot more people play on smartphones today than they did in 2005 because, you know, basically

00:58:06   the iPhone didn't even exist back then and the games for smartphones back then were really

00:58:12   different from today.

00:58:13   So in 10 years the video game has expanded as a concept, as a hobby to many, many more

00:58:21   millions of people and that's partially thanks to portable consoles and the App Store and

00:58:27   the Google Play Store.

00:58:28   Now what does it mean for an Apple TV focus on gaming coming to the living room?

00:58:33   My first, in these scenarios I try to apply the Occam's razor rule so the easiest explanation

00:58:43   tends to be the most plausible one and that iOS games come to the living room

00:58:49   and it means that the success that iOS games had because of their approachable

00:58:56   nature and different pricing model and you know ease of picking up a game

00:59:02   playing a game and then switching to something else that's gotta be coming to

00:59:07   the Apple TV. What does it mean if that kind of success moves from the iPhone and the iPad

00:59:16   into the living room onto a bigger screen? The thing to consider for me is not necessarily

00:59:25   the specifics of the consoles, but the economy of time. Time that you spend playing a casual

00:59:35   game on an Apple TV is time you don't spend playing on a PlayStation 4. So even if the

00:59:40   two consoles are not comparable directly because of games and because of hardware, whenever

00:59:46   you spend time on the casual game, what ultimately matters is that you don't spend time on the

00:59:53   hardcore game on the PlayStation or the Xbox.

00:59:56   A game becomes casual when you can play it anywhere.

01:00:00   Exactly. So what I'm trying to imagine now is

01:00:03   maybe the remote won't be as big as a deal as

01:00:07   The Nintendo Wiimote was

01:00:11   Many years ago because you know people are kind of more into video games now

01:00:16   although I would argue that as a motion controller I

01:00:19   suspect it'll be easier to use than a controller like a DualShock or an Xbox one controller that you hand to

01:00:27   someone who doesn't play video games because by nature of vMotion people know motion, people know how to move hands in most cases

01:00:34   So it'll be natural, but that's not the primary point I guess

01:00:39   The main focus for me is what happens when you take an iOS game and you put it onto the bigger

01:00:45   television set and you create an

01:00:48   integration with the App Store so imagine you're playing a game on your iPhone and you use something like continuity for

01:00:55   iOS games and Apple TV games so whenever you arrive home

01:00:59   You can start playing at the same point where you were without waiting for iCloud save and that kind of stuff

01:01:05   You just use hands-off to continue playing on the bigger screen and what happens when you when you build up

01:01:10   multiplayer features they use iPads or

01:01:13   iPhones that maybe kids and other family members have to create shared experiences in front of the Apple TV for games

01:01:20   That's a very

01:01:24   Different thinking process than traditional consoles and what they're trying to do they

01:01:29   Sony and Microsoft. I'm trying to take Nintendo out of the picture here because they're not as big as the other two

01:01:36   Sony and Microsoft are trying to do some of that

01:01:39   You can look at Sony and the play and the PlayStation 4 with the remote feature for the PS Vita

01:01:44   And it lets you and it lets you beam some content to the PS Vita with remote play or you can look also at Sony

01:01:50   and the PlayStation TV, which is this little accessory that basically extends the PlayStation

01:01:56   4 gaming screen to another television entirely.

01:02:00   Or you can look at Microsoft with the Xbox and Smart Glass and the kind of second screen

01:02:05   experiences that they're trying.

01:02:07   But an Apple TV with iOS games on the iPhone, the iPad, and now the bigger screen without

01:02:13   having to do streaming, AirPlay or iCloud, all those other services on top, but just

01:02:20   native gaming one-to-one, that's, I think, a very big market, potentially.

01:02:28   And when you go to a parent and you say, "Okay, your kid has an iPad and you have an iPhone,

01:02:35   but now you also want your kid to be playing games on the TV.

01:02:39   You don't want to spend $500 getting a PlayStation 4 or an Xbox and a bunch of games.

01:02:44   They're also violent and you don't want your kid to be playing GTA.

01:02:48   And you can use the App Store with the restrictions that you already have in place, the account

01:02:52   that you already know, or your purchases of all your family, and it costs $200 and you

01:02:58   can also watch all kinds of video content on it.

01:03:01   That's a pretty strong proposition, I would say.

01:03:04   I agree with you mostly, except in a few points.

01:03:08   Okay.

01:03:09   So the majority of stuff that you've spoken about I agree with.

01:03:12   Like I like the idea of the continuing games, I really like the idea of being able to use

01:03:16   the Apple TV as a way to connect different devices and everybody plays

01:03:21   the same game. Like we haven't spoken about this yet but I've heard Runbo being

01:03:27   mentioned a lot like this, Jason was telling me about it and upgrade. The

01:03:32   main points where I disagree with what you said is in discounting Nintendo in

01:03:37   the discussion because the games on an Apple TV will probably be closer to

01:03:43   to Nintendo in content and style than they would be to PlayStation or Xbox.

01:03:49   I agree I was just talking from a market perspective.

01:03:53   Exactly yes.

01:03:54   So I totally agree with that but I wanted to make that point.

01:03:57   My other point is the controller and the controller's importance.

01:04:02   Now the problem with the world that you painted, like the idea of, and this is probably the

01:04:09   world that Apple would like to paint as well. The idea of like "oh you're playing

01:04:14   Infinity Blade on your iPhone go and finish it on the Apple TV"

01:04:19   It can't be the same game because the interaction of touching the game is

01:04:26   fundamentally different from having a controller in your hand and looking at a

01:04:30   TV and putting a touchpad on it does not help you because you will not know where

01:04:35   your finger is when you touch the touchpad, right, in relation to the

01:04:39   content that you're looking at on the television. So the controller and the

01:04:43   controller method, the input method, is going to be significantly different to

01:04:48   the games that we play on iPhones and iPads, right? You can see where I'm going

01:04:51   with this. So I made this point to Jason and I want to see what you think of, you

01:04:57   guys think of it as well. I think that if Apple try and paint a game story as an

01:05:04   important thing but do not show a first-party gaming focused controller I

01:05:12   think that they are not as committed to games as they may think that they or may

01:05:18   position themselves as being. There needs to be like a controller with buttons on it.

01:05:23   Yes totally agree I'm not sure about doesn't need triggers doesn't need how

01:05:29   many buttons doesn't need a d-pad I just know and I was having this argument on

01:05:33   on Twitter yesterday with my friend Zach Syche.

01:05:37   But if they only rely on third-party controllers--

01:05:40   - That has failed.

01:05:41   - That's a problem, because you're creating people

01:05:45   a sort of paralysis of choice issue.

01:05:48   You go to the Apple store and you're like,

01:05:49   I want a new Apple TV, give me a new Apple TV, sure.

01:05:53   You know how to play games on it?

01:05:54   And I'm like, no, I don't know.

01:05:56   How much money do I need to give you?

01:05:58   Does it have a controller?

01:05:59   Does it come with a controller?

01:06:00   Can I use my iPhone?

01:06:01   Can I use, you know?

01:06:02   Should I buy an extra controller?

01:06:04   And the guy is like, yeah, you can buy one of these 20 choices.

01:06:09   And at that point, I'm no gamer.

01:06:12   I just want to buy a new Apple TV because my kid wants

01:06:15   to play Angry Birds or maybe Minecraft Pocket

01:06:17   Edition on the bigger screen.

01:06:19   And I'm like, what?

01:06:21   It doesn't come with--

01:06:22   I should pick one of the third party options?

01:06:25   That's craziness.

01:06:26   And if Apple doesn't commit to making their own controller,

01:06:29   I agree that's a big issue.

01:06:31   At least with the information that we have right now, so we could be completely wrong

01:06:36   because we're looking at this rumor from a failed perspective, but in this case with

01:06:43   the information we have, if they don't do one, that's an issue.

01:06:47   I think because you cannot rely on people to make a choice when it comes to required

01:06:53   hardware that's not pre-installed or that comes with the box of what you buy.

01:07:00   You cannot say, "Yeah, you can buy one from MedCats, you can buy one from this other company,

01:07:06   you can buy this other one, but this other one is plastic, this one has aluminum details,

01:07:11   and this other one has better performance for rumble packs."

01:07:14   What do you say to people, right?

01:07:16   I agree.

01:07:17   Apple make keyboards and mice.

01:07:19   Yes, they should make a game controller.

01:07:21   I agree.

01:07:22   Because I can't see a world where they can make a games console or make the Apple TV

01:07:30   into a games console without providing a controller.

01:07:33   Because the touch idea, I cannot envision how that works.

01:07:39   Like a panel that you touch and try and control a game with on a TV just doesn't...

01:07:45   With my gaming knowledge it just doesn't make any sense.

01:07:51   - Yeah, and I would think too that if Apple

01:07:53   has a first party controller, you know,

01:07:55   it's gonna be easier for the development community as well.

01:07:58   Right now how it works, they have a couple

01:07:59   of reference designs.

01:08:01   I think Logitech makes one, maybe Belkin makes one.

01:08:04   I've never seen one or seen anyone talk about one.

01:08:07   I can't imagine they're selling.

01:08:08   - Apparently they're all crap.

01:08:10   - Yeah, I would imagine so. - There's a bunch of them.

01:08:13   I'm sure you've seen the same Federico

01:08:15   that there is effectively no good ones.

01:08:17   - And so if Apple makes their own,

01:08:21   gets around that problem as well when developers know what they're targeting

01:08:23   exactly and they can make the hardware really good and you know maybe it's

01:08:27   maybe it's an optional purchase maybe it doesn't come with the Apple TV it could

01:08:31   be like the Kindle or the Amazon Fire TV I believe does not come with the game

01:08:37   controller but you can purchase it separately.

01:08:38   Yeah. That I could see them being a separate purchase but I agree with you

01:08:43   guys that if Apple doesn't make one if they just leave it up to third parties

01:08:46   then it's not a... I think it's a pretty clear sign they're not as into it as

01:08:52   they might be otherwise.

01:08:53   Also I just wanted to just add one more point about just to put

01:08:58   into context the Wii a little bit because I think a lot of people will

01:09:02   think about the Wii when they think about this but so the Wii was successful

01:09:07   it brought in a bunch of non gamers and the reason it did that was because the

01:09:12   input method was something we'd never seen before. We hadn't seen that

01:09:17   before. The motion control didn't exist prior to this in any form that

01:09:23   people could use in their home. Accelerometers and all that kind of stuff

01:09:27   were not in every smartphone that you bought. This stuff was brand new

01:09:32   but even then they did actually turn that into a real controller with

01:09:35   proper buttons on it that you could not have to look at. It worked as that

01:09:40   idea. I don't think... and it worked for Nintendo and then stopped working, right?

01:09:45   I don't think that just having a "ah but it's got a motion controller in it and

01:09:50   you can play games like that" I don't think that will work anymore I don't think

01:09:53   it's enough. So I just wanted to add that little bit of context to the Wii because I

01:09:57   think it's important because I think the Wii is a real easy potential comparison

01:10:02   for what this controller could be but the Wiimote was a revolution in gaming

01:10:07   unlike... Also, remember the downfall of the Wii in the last years when the novelty effect

01:10:16   were off. And, you know, people just stopped using the Wii. So, we'll see.

01:10:24   I'd say I couldn't care less about Apple TV, just don't care about it, right? I care more

01:10:30   about Apple Games console because I just want to see what that is. The Apple TV stuff, it

01:10:36   It means nothing to me, as I think me and Federico both proved with our complete silence

01:10:41   for about 20 minutes.

01:10:43   That stuff is not for us.

01:10:45   And the fact that Steven has been completely silent for the last 20 minutes shows you where

01:10:49   he necessarily feels about this kind of thing.

01:10:51   Just one question about apps, or maybe we can all collaborate and have a shared experience

01:10:58   here.

01:11:01   Do we just assume that Apple is gonna launch an SDK and allow for some types of apps?

01:11:08   Do you want a calculator on your Apple TV?

01:11:11   Yes.

01:11:12   I feel like that they would say that this is for like media apps.

01:11:17   Media apps?

01:11:18   Media and games.

01:11:19   Like having a podcast client besides Apple's would be great.

01:11:23   Having things that do media like stuff.

01:11:29   Twitter client doesn't make any sense. Exactly. Or OmniFocus, right? You don't need it on

01:11:34   the TV. It'll be kind of like CarPlay maybe. So like CarPlay lets you do audio,

01:11:39   like podcasts, music, you know, like a bunch of categories. That could be a really good comparison.

01:11:46   I wonder too if it would be open-ended like the App Store or you know CarPlay you have to be

01:11:51   like an approved partner. So Marco has that status with Overcast. I feel like it

01:11:56   will be open-ended but they will limit what you can do right they'll say like

01:12:01   these are the API's available to you and this is what you're able to do with

01:12:05   those and they are basically limited to gaming and entertainment playback and

01:12:11   stuff like that audio video. And you know and I think if they do that the

01:12:15   purchasing like we're talking about Amazon Prime Video I think the

01:12:17   purchasing stuff will have to be in there somewhere if you're going to offer

01:12:21   this you know we can sort of skipped over it but there's got to be some

01:12:24   storage in the device right now you can't access that storage in the Apple

01:12:28   TV it's it's there and it's uses the buffer for streaming and for for rentals

01:12:33   and stuff but you know I assume that we're gonna see storage options you

01:12:39   know storage tiers with this thing and maybe that's where the the price rumors

01:12:42   come in you know some people said 149 some of us had 199 you know maybe that's

01:12:46   16 and 32 gig models so it'll be I think it's a if a third of this is true it's

01:12:54   going to be the most exciting fall the Apple TV has had in a long time but it

01:12:58   does seem like you know Apple is going to make a move here which is which is

01:13:01   good I mean as someone who has one and uses it I definitely have thought about

01:13:06   replacing it about once a month I sort of like peruse Roku's on Amazon like I

01:13:10   should buy Roku but I haven't because we have a lot of iTunes stuff and I'm

01:13:15   hoping that my patients will be rewarded with a device that can do a lot more and

01:13:18   and be more powerful and more flexible.

01:13:20   We'll see you next week. I'll be on a plane.

01:13:24   You will.

01:13:24   You'll be on a plane.

01:13:26   That's such bad timing, Myke.

01:13:29   It's literally when I get off the plane, the event will have just ended.

01:13:32   So what are you gonna...

01:13:36   What's the first thing you're gonna do?

01:13:38   I'm gonna kick it old school, man.

01:13:40   I'm gonna go to Six Colors, I'm gonna go to Mac Stories and see what was announced.

01:13:44   I imagine the days before video streams, that will be me.

01:13:50   I will be just getting off the plane, I'll be loading up my favorite blogs and looking

01:13:54   at what was announced.

01:13:56   That's so 90s.

01:13:58   I know, it's very old.

01:14:00   It makes me feel like I'm going back in time.

01:14:02   You should probably log on to the Usenet and ask people for news.

01:14:08   Get on the forums.

01:14:11   Set those forums on fire and read all this stuff.

01:14:13   create an account on the MacRumors forums and just post a new thread and be like...

01:14:19   What was announced today guys?

01:14:21   All in lower case and without a question mark.

01:14:25   Just got off plane, what was announced?

01:14:28   Wow.

01:14:29   Please do that.

01:14:31   Yeah.

01:14:32   We'll see.

01:14:34   So you guys are gonna still be here right?

01:14:36   You're gonna be here next Tuesday talking more about this kind of stuff and then I think

01:14:40   Stephen you're filling in for me on upgrade talking with Jason straight after the event?

01:14:44   Yep that's the plan.

01:14:46   Cool so if you want your coverage you know where to go you got to keep it on Relay FM.

01:14:50   If you want to find the show notes for this week you want to head on over to relay.fm/connected/55

01:14:55   if you want to find Federico online you should go to maxlories.net that's where you're going

01:15:01   to find all the stuff that you want and you can also find Federico he is @viti c c i t

01:15:07   You can find Steve on the line at 512pixels.net and he is @ismh on Twitter.

01:15:12   I am @imike, I M Y K E. Thanks again to our sponsors this week, igloo and lynda.com.

01:15:17   Go support them because they support us.

01:15:20   But most of all, as always, thank you so much for listening and I'll be back in a couple

01:15:26   of weeks time I think.

01:15:29   Oh I am going to be on next week's episode.

01:15:30   What was that?

01:15:31   I'm not on a plane.

01:15:34   I am on next week's episode, it's the one after that I'm not on.

01:15:37   We should say goodbye so we can end it.

01:15:39   I just want everybody to know, in case they're worried, I will be here next week, I won't be here the week after.

01:15:46   So until then, say goodbye everyone.

01:15:48   Adios.