48: Vast Emptiness of Nothing


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:07   From Relay FM, this is Connected, episode number 48.

00:00:11   Today's show is brought to you by Harry's, an exceptional shave at a fraction of the price,

00:00:16   Squarespace, Build It Beautiful, and Igloo, an intranet you'll actually like.

00:00:20   My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined by Mr. Steven Hackett.

00:00:23   Hello, Michael Hurley.

00:00:25   Hello, Steven Hackett, how are you?

00:00:27   I'm good at being blown away by thunderstorms so we'll see how long I can go before the

00:00:35   flood waters rise.

00:00:37   But for now I'm okay.

00:00:38   It's very thundery.

00:00:39   It's very thundery outside that started going on so.

00:00:43   That's an official weather as recognized by the Meteorological Society.

00:00:48   Yes thundery.

00:00:49   I mean you might not have heard that word if you didn't if you don't have a degree in

00:00:56   weathermanship. - In curology.

00:00:57   Weathermanship, did you say?

00:00:59   - Weathermanship.

00:00:59   - Yes.

00:01:02   No Federico this week.

00:01:03   - We miss our friend.

00:01:05   Do you guys get thunderstorms?

00:01:06   I know it rains, but do you get like,

00:01:08   full out storms?

00:01:09   - We get thunderstorms,

00:01:11   but they won't be like the ones that you get.

00:01:13   But there is thunder and there is lightning.

00:01:16   But it's, you know, every now and then

00:01:18   we have like a bad one, but again,

00:01:21   our now and then bad ones is maybe like,

00:01:22   probably like a medium one for you, I reckon.

00:01:24   - Gotcha.

00:01:25   It's like basically in the UK, we get all the weather,

00:01:30   but none of it is really serious, but we get all of it

00:01:33   where not everywhere in the world

00:01:36   gets all the different kinds of weather.

00:01:37   We get them all, but we just get them all

00:01:40   in like annoying amounts

00:01:43   because they're neither exciting or interesting.

00:01:46   They're just all there.

00:01:47   - Just kind of low level annoyances

00:01:50   as opposed to exciting events.

00:01:52   - Exactly.

00:01:53   nothing none of the weather is ever exciting and which makes it all annoying

00:01:59   this is this is been a good segment on our show I would like to issue a

00:02:04   personal thank you to the listeners of this show if you remember last week I

00:02:10   spoke we spoke about you and your t-shirts and I challenged the listeners

00:02:16   of this show to to buy t-shirts to take the 512 pixels t-shirt over the 211 mark

00:02:23   that was set by the connected t-shirt which was met by the next morning which

00:02:27   was awesome and currently you have sold two hundred and seventy four t-shirts

00:02:32   which is a ludicrous amount of t-shirts to sell with a little computer on them.

00:02:36   It's exciting so thank you for everyone who was ordered if you have not ordered

00:02:40   you have a couple of days left please go and do so it's it's a huge help and just

00:02:46   it's encouraging to log in to Teespring and see those those orders come in so

00:02:51   it's cool I ordered a long sleeve I bought a short sleeve I didn't think I'd

00:02:57   want the long sleeve and I looked at the long sleeve and I was like I don't want one of those I

00:03:01   don't have any long sleeve t-shirts so now I have two separate orders with your

00:03:06   little logo on them on the way which I think will bring me up to four fire

00:03:11   12 pixels t-shirts in total yeah because the the third one I've been to in

00:03:16   previous years so but none of them this successful so thank you to everyone it's

00:03:24   really great I would hazard a guess to say that this if not already will sell

00:03:29   out both of those ones combined you know oh yeah it has it has so so our follow

00:03:40   up this week is really pretty epic this is one of the greatest pieces of follow

00:03:45   up any podcast has ever received, not just Alice.

00:03:48   So Federico just started texting me very excitedly the other night. He said he was just saying

00:03:52   like, "Oh my gosh, oh my gosh," and I go, "This email I got," and I'm like, "Well, send

00:03:55   it to me." So he sends it to me. And if you remember last week, we were speaking about

00:03:59   weather, again, as we now do at the beginning of the show. And he made some claims, Myke,

00:04:05   that were quite frankly ridiculous, that because you were further north and he was closer to

00:04:09   the equator the Sun that you received is more triangular in nature which is just

00:04:15   nonsense. I mean I was only gonna take him so far you know and I was like I

00:04:22   can't I can't keep going down this I can't keep having this conversation so I

00:04:25   decided to just settle up and move on. I mean it's that's what when you're

00:04:30   confronted with someone who's a crazy person you just have to sometimes let

00:04:34   them go. Could you please give the follow-up before you say where it was gonna come

00:04:38   from yes so the it's a good it's good thing so that the follow-up email reads

00:04:43   as follow it follows the apparent shape of the Sun is independent of latitude

00:04:48   but the curvature of the earth far from the equator means that the sun's rays

00:04:52   are spread over a larger area makes sense right so the Sun is still the same

00:04:58   shape that it is always that doesn't matter but the amount of Sun the sun's

00:05:05   rays themselves are, you know, they're spread out because they're not

00:05:09   hitting at such a direct angle but they're sort of glancing off, if you will,

00:05:13   over a bigger area. It makes sense. I think of it as kind of like skimming a

00:05:17   stone. I know it's nothing like that but that's what my brain imagines.

00:05:21   This person's gonna email you now. So you can-- You can't skim the Sun! So if you hold up

00:05:26   like a ball, like in one hand, like a tennis ball or basketball or something, and

00:05:29   how to hold a flashlight, you can see this effect where the Sun is more

00:05:34   direct in a straight angle, you know, the light and then it sort of disperses, that's

00:05:39   the word I was looking for earlier, the further from the center you get. This is

00:05:43   great email because Federico is wrong but it's also a great email because it

00:05:48   was written by a listener named Frasier who is employed at the European Space

00:05:53   Agency, which for Americans is basically NASA in Europe, very similar the two

00:06:01   agencies work together and a lot of stuff so the ESA say do that slingshot

00:06:06   thing yes I think so depending on the slingshot thing you're talking about

00:06:11   there was it there was a thing oh some time ago that the ESA did like this is

00:06:18   annoying to me that I can't remember what it was but I just remember at the

00:06:22   time being like haha we can't do something you know I googled the ESA

00:06:29   slingshot and it did not return anything super helpful but yeah ESO does a lot of

00:06:33   really cool stuff and I think follow-up is probably probably over now since we

00:06:41   had the European Space Agency weigh in on a very important topic so thank you

00:06:45   for the feedback and it was a proud moment for the three of us I think yep

00:06:52   most definitely it's just a fantastic piece of follow-up to receive yep so

00:06:57   So we're going to follow that we should have ended follow up with that because the next

00:07:01   one doesn't seem as exciting anymore.

00:07:03   But this is a link over on max stories, Federico turns out that someone has created a beats

00:07:11   one schedule.

00:07:13   So we were speaking about there's no real great way to see like what's coming up like

00:07:18   who's on air in two hours at beats one.

00:07:21   And Mark Bouquet has written an unofficial calendar for this very problem.

00:07:29   So you can subscribe to it and you can get it on your phone and on your watch and it's

00:07:38   pretty cool.

00:07:39   It is user created and maintained but if Mark stays on top of it, this should be a pretty

00:07:43   good resource, right?

00:07:45   Yeah.

00:07:46   This comes also meets with I received some tweets from a guy called Benji earlier

00:07:51   Who's at the rumbler on Twitter and he was basically doing some digging and found out that Apple has a Heroku API

00:07:59   and that this that basically a lot of the Apple music stuff is built on that there is

00:08:05   There's all this crazy stuff going on that there is apparently apples tumblr uses Heroku

00:08:11   AWS cloud and react.js to create their own tumblr page. Okay, so

00:08:16   And then Mark Bouquet replied to Benji and said that was where he got that

00:08:20   information from to create this calendar that he's made. But the problem

00:08:27   is, from my perspective, is twofold. Mark's calendar is user created and maintained

00:08:33   whilst I have faith in Mark's abilities. Apple could change things, right, or could

00:08:40   add a new show in or, you know, anything could happen that he doesn't know about

00:08:44   and/or his system isn't pulling in or whatever or isn't updating correctly.

00:08:49   But also more more of a problem for me is this is I don't want this in my

00:08:55   calendar like I want to know what's coming and I want to be notified about

00:08:58   things but I don't want it in my calendar as a thing.

00:09:03   Yeah it's yeah I mean I think if it was just better better done in the app maybe in a way where you could

00:09:13   like we talked about favorite something or have an option for push notification

00:09:18   for music so you're still alert you still know what's going on but it's not

00:09:22   necessarily filling up your fantastical you know every time you open it just all

00:09:27   beats one stuff I think there's a happy medium between where we are now and what

00:09:32   Marcus created I think it's really great I think a lot of people find it useful

00:09:34   but I would I think what we initially wish for I think is still something that

00:09:39   that they should do.

00:09:41   I mean, they have all the data, right?

00:09:43   It's just one of those things where it seems like

00:09:45   they could do, you know, Apple could do it

00:09:46   with relatively little work.

00:09:49   But, you know, they got, I guess, got bigger fish to fry.

00:09:52   So I always feel a little uncomfortable telling Apple

00:09:54   what to do because they're in charge and I'm not.

00:09:59   Anyways, so we have a little bit of a blend

00:10:02   of a follow-up item and a mini topic.

00:10:05   Apple Pay has launched in the United Kingdom.

00:10:09   Apple announced this a while back,

00:10:12   and it launched just yesterday, right, as we record this?

00:10:15   So Myke, have you gotten a chance to use it?

00:10:19   - No.

00:10:20   Basically the situation as it stands right now

00:10:26   is that we have Apple Pay here,

00:10:30   but there are mainly,

00:10:32   there are basically four big banks in the UK.

00:10:36   There is Barclays, Lloyds, Santander and HSBC.

00:10:41   There are smaller banks.

00:10:45   There's like a bank called NatWest who maybe be the fifth,

00:10:48   but like they're like the four biggest

00:10:50   as it stands right now.

00:10:51   Only three of them, sorry, only one of them,

00:10:56   three of them don't have it,

00:10:56   only one of them do have Apple Pay.

00:10:59   HSBC, which is one of the banks that I bank with,

00:11:02   they pulled out in the 11th hour

00:11:05   and they are currently later in July is their status.

00:11:10   And it was literally yesterday,

00:11:12   they were gonna be, they were in the list of joining.

00:11:17   It was even in some of Apple's press materials

00:11:20   and even on the Apple Pay website,

00:11:22   they're using HSBC cards and stuff like that

00:11:24   to show things off.

00:11:25   So they really poured out in the 11th hour.

00:11:28   - Wow, you might still be able to use it before I can.

00:11:31   As my credit card, Discover's gonna add it.

00:11:34   they've said later this year in my small local bank

00:11:37   has said the same but have not appeared yet.

00:11:41   Every once in a while, Apple adds new banks here in the US

00:11:46   and I always like search that list for my bank.

00:11:49   So you may be able to use it before me.

00:11:51   Should be frustrating for me at least.

00:11:54   So yeah, I mean, do you think,

00:11:58   we talked a little bit about this when they announced it,

00:12:01   but to recap, the UK already has a contactless system.

00:12:06   We in the US are in the middle ages

00:12:10   when it comes to debit and credit card processing.

00:12:13   So do you think that Apple Pay can take off in the UK

00:12:18   because the environment is different already,

00:12:19   that people are already used to this sort of thing,

00:12:22   so maybe it'll be adopted easier,

00:12:24   do you think that'll hurt it?

00:12:25   Do you have any thoughts around that?

00:12:27   - There are a couple of interesting things.

00:12:29   So one of the things that is difficult to nail down completely because of where it's

00:12:35   being reported on, but I'm pretty sure I have this correct.

00:12:38   The way this is reported in a lot of US media is, or just in some instances, just a lot

00:12:44   of media in general, is Apple Pay is available in these locations.

00:12:49   And they've got a list of like 10 or 15 locations.

00:12:52   But my understanding is that's actually not accurate in the UK in the same way as it was

00:12:58   in the US because when they announced that list in the US it was like and

00:13:03   there is a list of places we are able to do it and because they have

00:13:09   any places the terminals are but my understanding is the list is actually

00:13:13   longer than what Apple is showing because it should work in most places

00:13:17   where a contactless terminal is available which is way larger than the

00:13:22   list of like 10 or 15 companies that have been announced. There are some that

00:13:27   have to do some additional tweaking to their systems because they don't have

00:13:29   the up-to-date systems but there is actually my understanding is a wider

00:13:34   breadth of places that you can use Apple Pay than what is listed officially on

00:13:40   the Apple website. The other thing is, so there's also been a bit of

00:13:45   miscommunication and again it's a similar kind of thing, it's difficult to

00:13:49   find out because Apple doesn't really have this information and the media is

00:13:53   difficult at portraying some of this information in that you can only spend

00:13:56   up to 20 pounds a transaction in in UK stores. That is true in some places but

00:14:05   again not in others because we have because we've had the contactless system

00:14:08   for longer the contactless cards system so we have contactless debit cards and

00:14:14   contactless credit cards that have chips in them that we can use we can beep and

00:14:18   can use them. That has been limited to up to 20 pounds for security reasons

00:14:22   because if you drop a card or lose a wallet or something like that people

00:14:28   could just buy whatever they want and there's no second factor of

00:14:31   authentication, right, if it's just a plastic piece of plastic. But what phones

00:14:35   have done is allow for that level to be increased whether it's through a pin

00:14:41   code being entered or a password being entered via a fingerprint scanner. So

00:14:46   So there has been some work going on for longer than before Apple Pay was even in existence

00:14:53   to raise that cap.

00:14:55   Some banks are supporting that and some locations are supporting that.

00:14:58   So there is even another list of companies that you can use higher limits where available.

00:15:05   So basically the thing is in the UK, because we already have the infrastructure, it is

00:15:10   lot more complex than it is in the US because effectively Apple is leading the

00:15:17   drive for contactless payments in the US now where Apple is just joining the fray

00:15:22   here and it's one of the reasons why some banks have lost out like a

00:15:26   Barclays has spoken about before they were never gonna do it but apparently

00:15:31   there's actually been a leadership change at Barclays and now they're like

00:15:33   it will be as soon as possible we will have a pay right because they were just getting

00:15:40   over the cause in the media in the same way that HSBC has today because they

00:15:44   pulled out so late in the game. Well they haven't pulled out, they have

00:15:49   delayed but you know they basically they broke one of their social media people

00:15:54   broke not necessarily at that time they thought and people were thinking that an

00:16:00   embargo was broken because someone from one of HSBC social media accounts

00:16:04   tweeted that oh it will be live on Tuesday when we didn't know that for

00:16:08   sure and basically that person had probably just been reading Apple blogs

00:16:13   because HSBC weren't ready right yeah so then there ended up being this like

00:16:19   weird turn of events to where we are today but to go back to answer your

00:16:24   question a little bit more it's difficult to say here if it will be

00:16:28   adopted on how it's gonna take off because we are already used to doing

00:16:34   and in many many ways it's way easier to pay for smaller items of a credit card

00:16:40   or a debit card via contactless because you just hold it to it and it beeps and

00:16:43   you're done. Nothing else is happening but like with the with the watch or the

00:16:48   phone, with the phone you have to give authentication by the thumbprint

00:16:52   that slows down the process because this fingerprint scanner has to read.

00:16:57   That is slower than finger, because not only the fingerprint scanner

00:17:01   reads, then the transaction is processed rather than just transaction being

00:17:04   processed with the card and also the watch adds a little bit of like

00:17:10   awkwardness because you kind of have to get the wrist and you put it on.

00:17:13   Yeah like that picture on Twitter earlier right with Tim Cook.

00:17:17   Yeah so that yeah this this goes back to one of the other places that you can use

00:17:21   so I'll just let me wrap up at that point. I talked about Tim Cook. Basically I think

00:17:25   it's tough to say because one of the things that this does is it can be a

00:17:30   little bit embarrassing to either to use this kind of stuff like because you're

00:17:34   like putting your phone against the terminal because something that has

00:17:37   become like a standard practice is if you want to pay by card you have to

00:17:41   alert the cashier that you want to pay by card and if you're paying by

00:17:45   contactless card what seems to have become like a social norm here is you

00:17:49   just show like you just take your card out your wallet and you like show it you

00:17:52   gesture towards it to the person like you you show them the card and then they

00:17:56   operate then they enable the scanner for you to beep, right? But here I'll be

00:18:01   like, what I showed on my phone? How am I gonna do this? It's gonna be

00:18:05   weird because we've got this inbuilt social norm now. And one of the

00:18:09   things about British people is we don't like to embarrass ourselves. And if we

00:18:13   are having to fiddle and I'm putting my watch on the thing and it's not

00:18:17   beeping and I'm trying like three times, if that keeps happening people are

00:18:21   gonna be a bit more hesitant to use it, I think. So I think it's a bit up

00:18:26   in the air. I think that a lot of people will be excited to try it because it's a new thing

00:18:31   with their technology. And I know that I will use it because I just will use it. Because

00:18:37   I'm excited about it. I will be using it on my watch all the time because it's just easy

00:18:41   and awesome. Now going back to the Tim Cook tweet. So Tim Cook tweeted earlier today about

00:18:48   enjoy Apple Pay UK and they showed a picture and this picture is people using their Apple

00:18:54   watches on the London Underground because the London Underground has a

00:18:57   contactless card entry system. We have cards that you can buy and top up with

00:19:02   credit and you can use them or have your travel cards on them but more recently

00:19:07   you can actually just use your bank card you just beep it and it just debits so

00:19:11   a fare from you like for £1.50 or something but this is going to be able

00:19:16   to be done with the Apple Watch and with the with the phone but these barriers

00:19:20   These systems have been in place for years and years and years and the way that they're built is as you go through the barrier

00:19:26   The reader is on the right hand side of you

00:19:28   So like you take your card and you beat the card and you go through

00:19:32   So the image in the press shots and what Tim Cook tweet today is the three people lining up one person going through the barriers

00:19:38   one person is authenticating on the barriers one person behind getting ready and

00:19:42   Everyone is using their watch in their right hand

00:19:46   on their right wrist because that's where the reader is, but the majority of people will be like

00:19:51   Awkwardly contorting themselves to try and get through the barrier. I actually think that for this that for the underground

00:19:58   I will use my phone because I will want to do it my right hand to just place it on and go through

00:20:02   Because one of the things about these barriers is speed is of the essence

00:20:06   They're like lines and lines of people sometimes you've got like two of these things and people just beep in and walk in

00:20:11   Beep walk beep walk. Like you just got to keep it moving because it's London

00:20:14   So I'm interested to see how that's gonna shake out, but that did make me smile at the time. Mm-hmm the

00:20:20   the thing that I think about in the photo is that this is a two-handed operation right because you have to

00:20:26   use Apple play on the watch my understanding is you have to hold down the or press the button on the side and

00:20:31   You know if your hands have something else in them

00:20:33   like if you have your pass your phone your right hand something in your left hand, that's okay, but

00:20:37   With so many other things with the watch it is actually two-handed

00:20:41   So I wonder if that's a thing too, you know, if you have a bag or an umbrella or something and it could get out of hand quickly

00:20:47   I think

00:20:48   Yeah, I think you just tap it and then it activates and then you you put it down

00:20:52   But if you're gonna need if you're gonna have one handful then just grab your phone and just do it with the phone

00:20:57   But I do think the phone will actually be slower and that will be less convenient for the tube

00:21:02   Yeah, I also like the closing quote on his tweet, but no opening quote, but yeah

00:21:08   What can you do? Tim Cook is gonna tweet the way he tweets.

00:21:11   And he tweets however he wants to tweet, and it's always to your upset.

00:21:15   It's true.

00:21:16   So I will report back in a couple of weeks with even more out-of-date

00:21:22   impressions about Apple Pay because they're already out of date because it's been in the US for so long and now it's already in the UK

00:21:29   and I still can't use it for another couple of weeks. But when I do you guys are gonna hear all about it.

00:21:33   I'm excited.

00:21:36   Should I take a break?

00:21:37   Yes!

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00:24:08   Alrighty so up next in our series of mini topics, NASA to this morning, going back to

00:24:16   the space thing for a second, NASA's 3 billion mile journey to Pluto is at its peak today.

00:24:25   So if you've been watching the news today, I'm sure you've seen, there's a link in the

00:24:29   cinemas as well, this image of Pluto, really the first up-close image that humanity has

00:24:36   seen of the dwarf planet.

00:24:38   It used to be a planet, not a planet anymore.

00:24:41   And it's really quite something to look at, isn't it?

00:24:45   Yeah, space stuff is always weird to me.

00:24:50   Because I don't know an awful amount about space, as was demonstrated on Upgrade this

00:24:55   week talking about like the build-up to this and like I look at these things like

00:25:01   I look at that picture of Pluto and like one of my first thoughts was like how is

00:25:06   it illuminated so well and I was like hang on a minute the Sun does that

00:25:10   like because you know you like you look at a picture like this and it's like

00:25:13   it's perfectly illuminated and everything else around it is complete

00:25:17   darkness darkness like you've never seen in your life and it's like how is it so

00:25:21   perfect and then you realize that you know like the space the space of space

00:25:25   right just the vast emptiness of nothing it's like no you can't see anything else

00:25:29   because there's nothing else right and it's just I look at these things and

00:25:33   it's like it's so interesting and it's also so weird and now that I'm looking

00:25:39   at Pluto I can see the outline of Pluto that has been a thing today that's been

00:25:43   going around the internet I don't know if you've seen this that like what they

00:25:46   call it the heart of Pluto right it's what it's been yeah I'll put it I'll put

00:25:50   a tweet about it in the show notes for us. But it does kind of look like the

00:25:54   outline of Pluto the dog now that I see this. But yes it's really it really is

00:26:01   kind of an incredible crazy crazy thing. It is you know it's I gotta go space

00:26:08   stuff all day but the fact that we sent basically a robot the size of a piano to

00:26:13   Pluto and it took nine years to get there and it does 36,000 miles an hour

00:26:19   Which is pretty quick. Um, it just really is is nuts. And so today July 14th the

00:26:26   Spacecraft is actually silent. It can't talk to us and take pictures and work at the same time. So it is

00:26:34   Working because it is flying past Pluto's not orbiting everything. It's basically going past it on its way further out and

00:26:40   so

00:26:43   Starting tonight and then tomorrow

00:26:46   NASA will be in a 16 month download period of all this information that's gathering today.

00:26:52   So, you know, if you thought that your torrent of BattleBots was slow,

00:26:57   16 months to download images and mapping and stuff is really sort of a crazy thing

00:27:05   that we can send data at all, but it's like a couple of kilobytes a second.

00:27:09   It's not super quick.

00:27:11   So what kind of information is it actually getting then?

00:27:15   So a lot of it is imagery, a lot of it is looking at Pluto's atmosphere to see,

00:27:24   it's long believed that Pluto has an atmosphere, but probably very thin,

00:27:28   and so they're taking measurements and looking at that. Some of that will happen

00:27:31   once it's past, once it's on the back edge of Pluto, it will look at it from a couple different

00:27:37   angles and see maybe what that atmosphere could be made of, how robust it is to see

00:27:45   if there's thoughts that there might be subterranean oceans, probably

00:27:51   not of water but of some other materials and so looking at just kind of

00:27:56   discovering the makeup of this dwarf planet because Pluto is

00:28:01   actually part of a series of basically icy objects at the edge of

00:28:07   the solar system Pluto is the biggest and so we're seeing what they can learn

00:28:11   of of this this particular example and maybe they can take that knowledge and

00:28:19   spread it elsewhere so it just it's nuts and I think like you looking at that

00:28:24   photo the thing to me about this whole thing is that it took not it took nine

00:28:27   years to get there it takes something like four and a half hours for data to

00:28:31   come back to us at basically the speed of light and it's just the the scale of

00:28:38   it all that you know this thing launched a decade ago and they've just been

00:28:41   hanging out waiting for it to get there and they have you know basically 24

00:28:45   hours of like experimentation and then they're gonna they're gonna move on to a

00:28:49   couple of their objects they haven't said what yet but the you know it's like

00:28:54   all this lead up for a very intense period of time and then this data will

00:28:58   trickle in is just really just that sort of scale of it is what always gets me

00:29:02   when it comes to space stuff. How are they sending the data? NASA has something

00:29:09   called the Deep Space Network maybe we can find a Wikipedia article and

00:29:15   basically it is set up where NASA and like the ESA and I believe other

00:29:22   agencies can can use this as well. They say represent. That's right. So the DSN

00:29:29   basically is set up where we can listen out on all sides of the earth because

00:29:34   the earth obviously is rotating actually fairly quickly and so it's basically

00:29:39   just long-range radio signals that is vastly understating because I'm actually

00:29:46   not an expert on the DSM. It's extremely long-range. Yeah no it really is I mean

00:29:52   if you think about Voyager which is even further out than this thing is if the

00:29:58   Voyager has actually depending what articles you read actually left the

00:30:03   solar system last year and is actually kind of in this intermediate space and

00:30:08   we can still get data back from it so it's basically like a modem on top of a

00:30:14   really top building and we listen and these things talk back to us. It's very

00:30:19   slow but apparently very reliable for the most part so props to the people who

00:30:23   invented it because it seems like an impossible problem to solve to me.

00:30:28   So what does the Voyager do then? So Voyager looked at other big planets so it

00:30:34   didn't get a look at Pluto but looked at Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune and it is

00:30:39   now sort of jettisoned from the solar system and we're learning about what

00:30:46   takes place outside the solar system there's a kind of like an envelope of

00:30:49   material and radiation and energy around the Sun and it has passed through that

00:30:54   and for the first time ever we are seeing the solar system from the outside

00:30:58   and it's pretty cool and the Voyager has a gold record on it so you can listen

00:31:06   into some sweet tunes if you're an alien and come across Voyager 1 or 2.

00:31:10   Man I don't know about any of this stuff. It's very very interesting to hear

00:31:16   and I'm very interested to hear about it I just don't know any of it you know

00:31:21   like because it doesn't it doesn't like break through my purview very often.

00:31:25   Yeah. Like it's just when something like this happens. Right and this has been I

00:31:30   mean all over the news today and like it's really captivated people because it

00:31:35   it

00:31:37   Unlike

00:31:39   Like in the 70s and 80s when some of this other stuff was going on even the 90s like we haven't seen this sort of exploration

00:31:46   Really sort of in like mine of yours time like something happened

00:31:51   We were a little but it's been kind of quiet. And so I think for us is like

00:31:56   Adults, you know in this time period to see something, you know see this image, you know

00:31:59   I saw on Twitter for the first time this morning this Pluto image has been circulating today

00:32:04   NASA tweeted it it's like hey, like that's just crazy right that I think we're talking about last week with radio

00:32:11   I didn't sit down and watch the evening news and see this image

00:32:13   I saw it in tweet bot like I was still in bed this morning. Okay, that's so crazy

00:32:18   so I think that that sort of

00:32:21   thing can break through now sort of more easily because I think a people are just more open about what they're nerdy about and

00:32:28   That things like social media make it so much easier for data to get out

00:32:32   You don't have to go find the news.

00:32:34   It sort of comes to you,

00:32:35   which we're gonna talk about in a minute.

00:32:36   But yeah, it's cool.

00:32:38   It's a fun day for space nerds.

00:32:40   - So was the Voyager,

00:32:43   it was kind of going in a different direction, right?

00:32:45   They were sending it in.

00:32:47   - Yes, yes.

00:32:48   Different trajectory and new horizons.

00:32:52   The spacecraft won't catch it.

00:32:54   Voyager has a really good head start on this.

00:33:00   It's interesting though, I don't remember the exact numbers,

00:33:03   but roughly it took basically three days

00:33:06   for Apollo to get to the moon.

00:33:07   And this craft got to the moon in like nine hours.

00:33:11   So it's traveling very quickly,

00:33:14   but not fast enough to catch up from what I saw.

00:33:17   I saw that on a Reddit AMA today with the NASA team.

00:33:22   - But I guess it would on an infinite timescale, right?

00:33:25   - Mm, thank you, Marco.

00:33:28   I'm fascinated. It's very interesting. It's very, very interesting. I think part of the

00:33:38   reason as well, I was going to say this a moment ago, that I think this is captivating

00:33:41   people is because Pluto is more interesting to many modern people than many of the planets

00:33:53   are because of the big furor of Pluto.

00:33:57   Right, Neil deGrasse Tyson saying, "It's not a planet,"

00:34:00   and then everybody freaking out.

00:34:02   Anyways, not a planet.

00:34:04   Yeah, I think that's one reason too

00:34:05   that I think that's been in the news.

00:34:07   There's a lot of fun stuff about

00:34:11   planning on comets and going to Mars,

00:34:14   like all the stuff that we talked about a couple weeks ago.

00:34:18   There's more space stuff happening.

00:34:20   I think that's a fun time to be interested in this stuff.

00:34:26   indeed. Where can people do you have you got anywhere that people can can go if they want to

00:34:31   get started with space stuff? Yeah, that's a good question. There there are a couple there were a

00:34:37   couple blogs. Space.com is decent as long as you don't mind. Their website does weird stuff,

00:34:45   especially on mobile. There's one also called spaceflight insider actually met the editor of

00:34:52   of that when I was in Florida.

00:34:53   And they're like at a bunch of press conferences and stuff.

00:34:57   They've got good coverage.

00:35:00   Those are the two that I go to for like straight up news.

00:35:02   But NASA itself has a ton of social media,

00:35:05   a ton of blogs just on nasa.gov that you can subscribe to.

00:35:09   So it's easier than ever to follow along with this stuff.

00:35:14   And I think one thing that turns people off

00:35:17   is there's so much of it.

00:35:19   like if you just subscribe to like the main NASA blog,

00:35:22   it's almost overwhelming, but you can go in there

00:35:25   and you can look at individual things

00:35:27   and kind of tailor the content you get.

00:35:29   So it's fun.

00:35:31   - So when you said space flight inside,

00:35:34   I thought you said space flight inside her,

00:35:41   like the dream.

00:35:46   So I performed one of the weirdest Twitter searches

00:35:51   that I've ever performed and got nothing

00:35:53   and then realized what I had looked for

00:35:56   and why that was so stupid.

00:35:58   - Space flight insider.

00:36:01   - You should start that blog now.

00:36:06   You do the space flight and I'll do the cider.

00:36:08   - Yeah, what if it was just like a regular cider, right?

00:36:14   But you know, most ciders have like pictures of trees

00:36:16   or like apples or something on them

00:36:18   instead of just a spaceship.

00:36:20   And it just is like a regular cider

00:36:22   just with a different badge.

00:36:23   I think that's our new business.

00:36:26   - Oh dear.

00:36:31   Just before we went on the air today,

00:36:35   I saw some great Federico news

00:36:37   and figured that I had to bring it up.

00:36:40   As of today, I have an update on the App Store,

00:36:44   the official Twitter app on the iPhone

00:36:48   now has the native share sheet built in.

00:36:50   - It's about time guys, way to go.

00:36:54   - I don't understand this.

00:36:56   - Why does Twitter do anything that they do?

00:36:58   So a lot of people have been complaining recently,

00:37:01   they do A/B testing in the app,

00:37:03   so some subset of users,

00:37:05   like the tweet button will be in a different place,

00:37:08   or this other feature will be over here,

00:37:10   it's like none of the options seem good,

00:37:13   They just keep fiddling with things and there's never any improvement.

00:37:16   So, but like the weird thing about this is like, you know, you've got this point where it's like,

00:37:24   there has to be, there has to have been a decision that they made internally as to why they decided

00:37:34   not to support this. There has to be one. Whether it makes sense or not, that's not for me or you

00:37:39   you to decide. We just know that there was a decision because they didn't do it.

00:37:45   So when I see something like this it's like well now something's changed but

00:37:51   nothing changed externally in between iOS 8 and today. So I see something like this

00:37:59   I'm like why did you do it? Like what took you so long in the first place?

00:38:03   Why didn't you want to do it? And why now? Like today they've brought this new

00:38:08   functionality where you can, the links look slightly different, their format is slightly

00:38:13   differently. It just doesn't make sense to me. Like, there has been a change in their

00:38:17   system but it doesn't seem like it's enough of a change to warrant overhauling the way

00:38:22   that they share links. So it's like, I don't understand.

00:38:26   Yeah, maybe Dick Costello was just really anti-share sheet.

00:38:30   Could be the only thing, right? Because it's a change.

00:38:34   I mean, you gotta wonder, like,

00:38:37   was it something politically, internally,

00:38:39   that was causing the delay?

00:38:43   I think it's ridiculous.

00:38:44   And we've talked a lot about the Twitter app,

00:38:46   and not to bring all that back up,

00:38:47   but they're just not good,

00:38:49   they're just not good citizens on iOS, or Android, really.

00:38:55   The Android app's not very good either.

00:38:56   - Or the Mac.

00:38:58   - Anywhere, really, except the web.

00:39:00   And even the web app,

00:39:03   logging into it now is it's just not like it's the old it's the old URL and

00:39:11   or the old style I can tweet from that but then if I go to my profile it looks

00:39:15   different but I can't tweet from there like it's what what are you doing it's

00:39:18   not a complicated thing what Twitter does like just make it better let's make

00:39:24   it better it's impossible to understand how some of these companies work and and

00:39:29   And currently, Twitter is really one of them.

00:39:33   And that might be why they're in the situation

00:39:36   that they just lost their CEOs,

00:39:38   because they are so incomprehensible.

00:39:40   But anyway, it's there now if you want it.

00:39:45   The iPad doesn't have it,

00:39:47   and the iPad app today removed the Discover tab.

00:39:50   That was what the iPad got.

00:39:54   The iPad got the removal of a feature,

00:39:57   and the iPhone got a feature that people actually want.

00:40:01   - There's no rhyme or reason to it.

00:40:05   You would think that on one hand that new leadership,

00:40:11   that a new CEO come in and say,

00:40:12   "Hey, look, we're gonna make our apps the best that we can."

00:40:17   There's no reason that the first party client

00:40:21   shouldn't be the best one.

00:40:22   But the reality is on any platform,

00:40:25   there's better third-party alternatives.

00:40:27   And that's, if I were coming into Twitter as leadership,

00:40:30   that seems like a really bad sign

00:40:33   of something internally that's just not gone right.

00:40:37   Either they don't see the value in it, which is concerning,

00:40:41   or they're unable to affect change.

00:40:46   I'm sure there were people who wanted that share sheet there

00:40:48   on day one and who were fighting for it,

00:40:50   but for some reason that couldn't happen.

00:40:53   And whatever process or whatever step along the way

00:40:56   has prevented them from making their apps good,

00:41:00   that should be concerning if you're in charge over there.

00:41:04   - Well sure, because once Apple implement,

00:41:07   or people were doing their own versions of share sheets,

00:41:12   and you have to do whatever you have to do

00:41:14   to keep that up to date and keep that

00:41:16   with additional functionality and et cetera.

00:41:19   As soon as Apple brings in a feature like this,

00:41:22   It's surely easier for you to just implement that.

00:41:26   With developer resources, it must just be easier

00:41:32   to just say, "We'll just use this new API now,

00:41:35   "and then we have a share sheet

00:41:36   "that we don't have to maintain anymore,

00:41:38   "and we don't have to add functionality to

00:41:40   "or remove functionality from like it just is."

00:41:44   So they were having, I'm sure, to work harder to keep it.

00:41:47   I don't understand the way

00:41:51   that these big companies work,

00:41:53   but from working in a big company,

00:41:56   pretty in my previous life,

00:41:58   I know that it was some dumb decisions

00:42:01   made by some dumb people

00:42:02   because they thought that their revenue

00:42:04   was tied up in the share sheet.

00:42:06   - Yeah, that's what made her break it,

00:42:08   just that one feature.

00:42:10   No, it's sad and it's puzzling

00:42:13   as to why they continue down this path, but.

00:42:21   we'll just see how that goes I guess.

00:42:23   - Yep.

00:42:24   We most definitely will.

00:42:26   Okie dokie, shall we move on?

00:42:30   Thank our second sponsor.

00:42:32   - Let's do it.

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00:45:04   So up next we're gonna talk about backups a little bit. We're gonna talk about this last week but ran over so we thought we'd slot it in here in our sort of grab bag.

00:45:16   Middle of July there's no news type show. So I've read about backups five years ago which was a moment for me of like holy cow my site has been around a while.

00:45:28   but I thought it'd be time to sort of revisit the my strategy because the

00:45:37   landscape has shifted a little bit so I sort of have three key tenets when it

00:45:41   comes to having a good backup. A backup should be redundant so you have more

00:45:45   than one more than one backup for a couple different reasons. The sort of the

00:45:52   one I call out, I think the most common one is if your time machine drive is

00:45:56   you know plugged in on your desk next to your iMac and something happens to that

00:45:59   desk power surge you know fire somebody breaks in and steals your stuff your

00:46:08   data and your backup were only about four feet away from each other and

00:46:11   that's no good. You can do that but if you have a secondary backup somewhere

00:46:15   else you're protected that way. It should be easy to manage no one wants a backup

00:46:21   that is a pain in the rear to use because the truth is you just don't use it.

00:46:27   Apple discovered this early on in Time Machine which rolled out with OS X

00:46:33   Leopard. Super easy, you plug in a drive you say yes use this for Time Machine and

00:46:37   then you're done with it.

00:46:39   You don't have to worry about is it working, is it not working, did I forget to run it.

00:46:42   Time Machine just takes care of itself and that's really key for any backup

00:46:47   Time Machine and beyond that it's easy to manage. And third one is should be

00:46:51   testable that you should be able to go in and retrieve data on some sort of

00:46:56   basis to make sure that everything's working correctly. Again something Time

00:47:00   Machine does well I can go in and I can pull you know a folder from my desktop

00:47:04   from three weeks ago but if you get something like a bootable backup or

00:47:08   other things that make sure that it's actually doing what you expect it to so

00:47:12   when you do need it when you do have a disk failure or data loss you're not

00:47:16   then surprised that your strategy has failed you. I think those three

00:47:24   laws of backup at least have served me well over the years. We can get

00:47:32   into the details like there's a link in the show notes which you can

00:47:37   find somewhere on the internet I believe. They're over at relay.fm/connected/48

00:47:44   this time. Look at you. The number is different every week if you haven't been paying

00:47:48   attention. So you can find this this link and you can read through kind of what

00:47:53   I'm doing specifically but those are kind of the three things that that come

00:47:57   to mind. Redundancy, ease of use, and testability. I think if you look at those

00:48:04   things and those are the metrics you use at that point the details are not

00:48:11   irrelevant but less important. So for instance I'm using a time machine as

00:48:15   sort of my immediate local backup and then I use arc and Amazon cloud drive as

00:48:24   my off-site and then I also have a set of drives that my MacBook Pro and my

00:48:30   Synology at home are cloned to every every couple weeks and those are stored

00:48:35   off-site in a secure location. So it's again it's having it's multi-layered

00:48:40   right? If my time machine that sits on my desk is right here I can touch it.

00:48:45   If this desk goes away with my laptop on it I'm okay. I've got a redundancy

00:48:51   somewhere else. It's easy to use, Arc and Time Machine are all very easy to use,

00:48:56   SuperDuper which is what I use to back up off-site. Easy to use and I don't have

00:49:01   to worry about like configurations or making sure that all these little knobs

00:49:06   are twisted to the right way and levers are pulled, it all just works. And then it's

00:49:11   all testable. I can go get data from any of these sources at any time I want and see that

00:49:15   everything is behaving correctly.

00:49:20   So I feel like I'm going to say something dangerous right now.

00:49:26   I think your system is crazy.

00:49:28   So Federico said that. I was reading the MaxStory email, which if you haven't subscribed to

00:49:32   should definitely go read it. It's a great email newsletter he puts out on

00:49:36   Fridays. And he linked to it, which I didn't know he was going to do, and he

00:49:40   says "Steven Hackett's backup strategy for OS X is all kinds of paranoid and

00:49:43   wonderful at the same time." I chuckled and actually I sent him a little note.

00:49:48   I said, "You caught me off guard," and I LOL'd while reading a

00:49:53   newsletter on my iPad. So, how so? There's just too much going on here. Like,

00:50:00   Like it's...

00:50:03   There are so many things happening to the point that you have to draw a diagram for

00:50:08   it to make any sense to people.

00:50:10   I did draw a diagram, but it's very simple.

00:50:12   I did it in my node, which is great for this sort of stuff.

00:50:14   It's not simple.

00:50:15   It's not simple.

00:50:16   Right, so where does the Synology get its data from?

00:50:23   So the Synology houses our family iTunes library.

00:50:26   if I buy, we bought Interstellar the other night,

00:50:29   and on the Apple TV, and the iTunes library

00:50:33   sort of the Synology, so now there's a copy

00:50:35   of the Interstellar on my Synology.

00:50:37   Synology also houses archives of stuff,

00:50:40   so everything Relay produces gets downloaded automatically

00:50:43   to the Synology, all of my disk images and stuff,

00:50:45   'cause I'm still doing some tech consulting.

00:50:47   All that sort of stuff is there,

00:50:48   so it's sort of just a grab bag of big files

00:50:52   I've collected over the years.

00:50:53   And what is off-site USB clone?

00:50:56   - So if you read a little bit further down,

00:51:01   I keep external, still USB drives,

00:51:04   and I clone the Synology over to that drive,

00:51:09   and I keep it off-site.

00:51:11   So it is getting back up to Amazon Cloud Drive,

00:51:12   even though that's taking forever,

00:51:15   but I have a complete copy of my Synology stored elsewhere.

00:51:18   So if the Synology goes away or the house burns down,

00:51:21   or you could say by lightning on the day like today,

00:51:24   all that data is elsewhere safe and sound.

00:51:28   - Okay, so the Synology, right, this is fine to me.

00:51:31   That all makes sense.

00:51:32   - Okay.

00:51:33   - All right, I just wanted to lay all that out there first.

00:51:35   - Okay.

00:51:36   - The Synology has data on it which isn't anywhere else.

00:51:38   - Correct.

00:51:39   - So it makes sense.

00:51:40   That was why I asked where is its data coming from

00:51:42   because if everything was just coming from your MacBook,

00:51:44   then that was crazy to me.

00:51:46   - Yeah, the Synology houses stuff that is,

00:51:48   I mean, I have four and a half terabytes in use.

00:51:51   It's way bigger than I could put on any one machine.

00:51:53   So it's sort of the central hub of all of our stuff.

00:51:56   - Right.

00:51:57   So, and then it is offsite by USB,

00:52:00   which I've always found offsite backups peculiar.

00:52:03   I know like physical offsite backups.

00:52:05   I've always found those peculiar.

00:52:07   I know why people do them, but I would just not do that.

00:52:10   - Yeah, so I could address that real quickly.

00:52:12   You can, like backing this thing up to Amazon Cloud Drive,

00:52:17   which if you haven't checked out, it's 60 bucks a year,

00:52:19   it's unlimited storage and bandwidth,

00:52:20   it's stored on AWS, like great service.

00:52:23   That would suffice for the offsite backup

00:52:29   if my, again, my house gets burned down,

00:52:31   it gets hit by lightning and the thing gets cooked.

00:52:33   Then my data is outside of my home.

00:52:36   So either one serves as an offsite backup.

00:52:39   The reason I do both is that the USB clone

00:52:42   is immediately available,

00:52:43   where Amazon Cloud Drive, like if my

00:52:46   Synology goes up in flames. I can get that four and a half terabytes back from Amazon, but it's going to take

00:52:52   forever to download all that again and

00:52:56   and so for me the Amazon cloud drive is like a super rainy day where

00:53:00   Something has happened to the Synology and the off-site drive for some reason. It's it's my safety net

00:53:04   So you can choose one or the other and and you know

00:53:08   There's a lot of good services to do this

00:53:10   One reason I chose Amazon cloud drives because the knowledge you can talk to it natively

00:53:13   I don't have to run an app somewhere else and then pipe my data through a Mac mini somewhere but

00:53:18   So now the Synology OS can talk directly to Amazon cloud drive just built in

00:53:23   Which was a big factor in choosing it as my off-site cloud solution

00:53:28   Okay. Yes, the Macbook Pro is complicated. I

00:53:31   This is where it gets crazy. Okay, because so you have on your Macbook Pro you have two different time machines

00:53:39   Yes, right one which is why you local USB and one which is hosted in a Synology

00:53:44   Yes both at home, right?

00:53:47   The the local that the time machine just it's a external order. I've plugged in my back Pro is at work

00:53:52   So even though I'm working for myself now or sort of and then definitely will be the end of the month

00:53:58   I have a I have office space that's not in the home. And so that time machine drive sits here on the desk again

00:54:04   It's right here. It's like

00:54:05   Right right there

00:54:09   the

00:54:10   the idea between of having time machine at work at the office and at home is that

00:54:17   My data may change

00:54:20   Sometimes drastically editing a show or something can drastically change over the course of a couple days and I might be

00:54:27   At work. I'm at the office, you know, maybe two or three times a week

00:54:32   Maybe I don't really know yet and so the time machine on the Synology is relatively new

00:54:37   I know that I will be home and that the MacBook Pro will be at home and plugged in and so I've got

00:54:41   Time Machine both places just to make sure that

00:54:45   At least one of them is the most up-to-date

00:54:49   So this would make sense

00:54:52   If it wasn't them for an off-site bootable USB clone updated bi-weekly with superduper. Yes

00:55:00   So the

00:55:05   Okay, no, it's fine. So super duper which we should put in the show notes is a great utility

00:55:09   I can do lots of things I use it as hey, I want just a bootable snapshot because time machines not bootable

00:55:15   so if the SSD my Pro were to were to croak or I needed to

00:55:20   Ship it off and had a loaner machine or something

00:55:23   It would be a little bit of work to install

00:55:26   os10 and then like restore time machine backup it and that's all doable and if

00:55:32   But I wanted something I get up and running quickly because my only machine it's a production machine here at relay

00:55:37   My entire livelihood now goes through this MacBook Pro and so to have something where I can get back up and running

00:55:45   Quickly is important to me now. You might say well Steven if it's only updated by weekly your data might not be

00:55:51   Completely, you know up-to-date and that's okay

00:55:54   Really this drive just just exists

00:55:58   So I have something that can boot off of and have my software and have my settings and have everything

00:56:03   If I need to be up and running quickly after some sort of disaster

00:56:08   You could get a Mac up and running really quickly

00:56:13   No, I can't any day and out of all of the four little sprockets shooting out of the MacBook Pro

00:56:20   like this is the one that is could probably go away and like I not

00:56:25   Really realize it because I already have an off-site physical backup because I'm backing up at work and at home

00:56:30   So I already have like a physical disk at each location with my data

00:56:34   It's already off-site in that way this this really is sort of a legacy part of my backup system that I've kept around

00:56:40   Just in case because I had the hard disk already and it's already set up so I'm just plug it into it

00:56:47   And where do you keep this? I?

00:56:49   Can't tell you that really where do you keep it? It's safe and sound somewhere. Come on

00:56:54   Where is it kept? Is it a family members house?

00:56:56   And I'll face that it is that it is that a family members house is no long

00:57:00   It is no it is not at the home or the office. Okay, and

00:57:04   Then you also have Amazon cloud drive

00:57:07   Yes, why?

00:57:10   It's like I mean I'm using it as opposed to something like crash my back blaze both of which are great

00:57:17   Regardless of their sponsorship status or not crash plan back blaze are both really good services

00:57:23   And if you need off-site cloud backup like go check them out. They're easy to use. They're really cheap

00:57:29   I switched over

00:57:31   Tamazan cloud drive very recently because I was already

00:57:35   Paying for it to back the Synology up to it

00:57:39   And so for me this when I set it up for the Synology

00:57:43   It was just a simplification of oh I can also back up the MacBook Pro to it

00:57:48   Because I was using a crash plan up until this point. I use arc ARQ which is

00:57:53   It's one of those little pieces of Mac software. That's just delightful for like the

00:57:58   I'm sure the very small people number people who use it

00:58:01   You can back up to s3 Dropbox Google Drive all sorts of crazy stuff

00:58:05   And I have my home folder backing up to it just over the white

00:58:09   You know if I'm at home or I'm at work. I'm on the Wi-Fi. It's just backing up

00:58:13   Just my home folder

00:58:16   again

00:58:17   like the Synology Cloud backup, this is a

00:58:20   Truly worst-case scenario like my house burns down why my off-site drives are in it, you know

00:58:26   because I have to bring this home and update them or

00:58:29   if for some reason I've got time machine issues or you know, something like that where I

00:58:36   Need something that's sort of outside Apple system

00:58:39   It's available to me on Amazon cloud drive and arc encrypts it all and so I just install arc

00:58:45   Decrypt the files and download them and can go from there

00:58:48   All of this just seems like too much to me

00:58:52   It it it's it is a lot. There's no getting around that but for me

00:58:58   There's there's a subset of my day that if it were to go away

00:59:02   I would be okay with it because it's not stuff that I actively need a lot of that's now in the Synology

00:59:08   So for instance, I have you know a bunch of like OS X installers

00:59:13   From I mean, I think all the way back to like the public beta

00:59:16   I don't need those but I like to have them around because I write about the stuff and it's handy if that if that

00:59:22   Directory were to go away. I can rebuild that I can get those

00:59:26   Installers again if I need them

00:59:29   So there's sort of that level of data

00:59:32   but on the other hand a lot of my data in

00:59:35   In some ways is irreplaceable. So things like my photo library

00:59:39   cannot be

00:59:42   recreate it, right? I can't make my kids be babies again and do that cute thing they did three years ago.

00:59:48   So for me that sort of data

00:59:51   documents I'm currently working on so things like I'm writing drafts I'm working on

00:59:57   projects that Myke that you and I do that might not be in Google Drive that you know

01:00:02   I might have locally for some reason.

01:00:04   That sort of stuff, editing a podcast,

01:00:06   that sort of stuff is is irreplaceable and

01:00:12   So for me like because this thing is redundant because it's easy to use it

01:00:15   I don't touch any other than like bringing the off-site

01:00:18   USB drives home every couple weeks. There's no

01:00:21   Nothing I have to do like I pause arc and time machine if I'm recording but that's about it. And

01:00:27   So it's not like it's it's this weight on my shoulders. I have to worry about

01:00:32   That make sure all my backup things are going

01:00:35   But it is a weight off my shoulders knowing that hey, you know what like if my photo library were to go away

01:00:41   way it is in on my machine on Dropbox one two you know three other places four

01:00:49   other places because I need to make sure that those things are safe and sound.

01:00:54   So any any other questions? I have some but they're not related to your Mac. Okay.

01:01:04   So I want to talk about how I back up my Mac. Yes. But before we do that let me

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01:03:50   Squarespace, boot it beautiful. They're the best. They are the best. So I had

01:04:01   never really bothered with too much backup stuff. It's just not really

01:04:05   something that I ever fussed with too much, much to your dismay. But I have kind

01:04:11   of got that in check a bit more now but it's still nowhere near close to what

01:04:15   you do. So my backup is kind of split into a few different things

01:04:21   like yours is. So I have two machines. I don't have any servers or anything like

01:04:24   there I have my MacBook Pro and I have the Mac Pro. The MacBook Pro is backed

01:04:31   up to Backblaze. That's what I use. Backblaze is a past sponsor, it is a

01:04:36   future sponsor, but it is the company that I choose to back up my data to

01:04:40   because it's the one that I like the most. I think the tools are very simple,

01:04:44   it's easy for me to schedule things. I have a bad internet connection so

01:04:48   uploading can throttle me and I really like their scheduling tools. My internet

01:04:53   connection is terrible I get like was like sometimes it can be about like two

01:04:58   megabytes up like is what I get on a good day good I'm lucky if I get one so

01:05:05   it's really important to me to have a tool that kind of label me to very

01:05:09   easily pull things which I can do and also to schedule things as well so it

01:05:13   doesn't interrupt at the times when I'm most productive right like when I'm

01:05:17   trying to get work done and just literally because I'm uploading a file

01:05:20   Dropbox and I'm uploading some files to Backblaze I cannot load web pages so

01:05:25   it's very important to me that I have good tools like Backblaze that allow me to

01:05:28   schedule things so that's why I use them. So that's what I have there. My MacBook

01:05:34   Pro I use Backblaze for it that's all. The Mac Pro has a time machine

01:05:40   drive attached to it that's all that has. Now I have two reasons for this again

01:05:47   the Mac Pro has very very large files on it very large files multiple gigabyte

01:05:53   files I can't have that upload to the cloud right because the Mac Pro actually

01:06:00   is tethered to a mobile LTE hotspot it's a big game over after one backup

01:06:06   yep cannot do it because I have to pay quite a lot of money just to be able to

01:06:12   transfer some of the files around that we transfer around every week for all

01:06:16   the different shows and the multiple multiple multiple gigabytes of audio but

01:06:22   my key thing in all of this is the most important stuff for me is in Dropbox

01:06:29   mm-hmm that's where all my files are like every file that I need to worry

01:06:35   about is in Dropbox like so much so that when I had a hard drive not hard drive

01:06:41   there well I poured liquid into my computer and it killed the hard drive

01:06:45   along with everything else. I didn't feel like I lost anything. I have

01:06:50   never to this day felt like there was something that I lost because everything

01:06:54   was in Dropbox. I mean now it's also in back place as well so I'm doubling that

01:06:58   which is great. I've recently as well you don't know if you know this I pay for

01:07:01   Dropbox now. Congratulations to me.

01:07:07   It's good yeah I did I've paid it for it for a couple years. It's one of those

01:07:11   things like a terabyte of space is crazy no one will ever use it but um yeah I

01:07:16   don't need it I don't need it because I mean a terabyte is bigger than either of

01:07:21   the hard drives right Jason spoke about this before that's bigger bigger than

01:07:24   either of the the SSDs that I have in either of my machines yeah but it's I

01:07:30   was just too frequently bumping up against limits so I was just like forget

01:07:34   it I'm just gonna pay for it a lot of the stuff that you put on your

01:07:38   I don't have, like, that data doesn't exist to me, like the media stuff.

01:07:45   I don't have movies that I can't re-download, I don't have music that I

01:07:52   don't stream or can re-download, and all of my photos go to Dropbox. So they're

01:07:58   stored locally on my machines, they're stored in Dropbox, they're stored in iCloud, they're

01:08:02   also stored in Google Photos. So like that is all over the place and that all

01:08:09   kind of works for me. I love having Time Machine on the Mac Pro. I'm not kidding

01:08:14   you, in the last three weeks on two separate occasions I've had to use Time

01:08:19   Machine to get files from folders that are on my desktop. Because I put scratch

01:08:24   files and like logic files and stuff like that. They just go on to my desktop

01:08:28   Because after about two or three days, I never need a logic file again.

01:08:35   They're just not needed. I've never ever needed to go back to a logic file

01:08:40   after like three months or whatever, even after a week. Once the show's out

01:08:45   there, it's kind of that's all it ever needs to be. But there are times where I

01:08:49   might need to grab an audio file or I accidentally deleted a couple of audio

01:08:54   files from my desktop a couple of weeks ago and I was able to go in and grab

01:08:59   them both on separate occasions using Time Machine which is great. I've also as

01:09:03   well, again I don't know what's been happening to me recently in the last

01:09:05   couple of weeks, used Dropbox's fantastic versioning.

01:09:11   Yeah it's really good.

01:09:13   Like it's just incredibly good. And one of those occasions was simply just because it was

01:09:20   easier for me to get that rather than ask someone to send me a file. Like I had

01:09:26   a shared a file with someone. They had the file that I needed but I deleted it

01:09:30   from my folder because I didn't need it anymore. But it was easy for me to just go in, log

01:09:34   in, restore it. It downloads in like 20 seconds and I'm good to go again. That is

01:09:39   effectively my backup strategy. It is partly because of constraints that I

01:09:45   have. Like if I had fast internet then I would also be putting the Mac Pro onto

01:09:50   Backblaze as well, but I just can't do that because it's not possible for me to

01:09:56   do it with the internet situation I have. And I also I don't want to be... I

01:10:03   don't have a dock or anything for my Macbook Pro, so I don't plug it in to

01:10:09   put like to back up to Time Machine but my MacBook Pro when I open

01:10:18   finder like Dropbox is I set that to open because that's where all my files

01:10:23   are like I don't put anything that I need anywhere on my MacBook Pro other

01:10:28   than Dropbox like it's just where my files go so I don't need to worry about

01:10:32   it I don't have any media stored on this machine like it's not an issue for me so

01:10:36   So the way that I look at it, the Dropbox is the great place for it.

01:10:40   And then my Dropbox is backed up to the Time Machine.

01:10:45   Because it's via the Mac Pro.

01:10:47   Right, it's there as well.

01:10:49   Yep, and it's also in back place.

01:10:51   Yeah, I mean, I'm the same way with Dropbox.

01:10:54   I mean, besides logic stuff, because I don't have a separate editing machine, my photos,

01:10:59   major diagram stuff are in Dropbox.

01:11:02   And that's a really good point about their versioning systems.

01:11:05   you if I look at change or removed or something you can go back and find it

01:11:12   now it's not it doesn't last forever you know it's there is a limit to the extent

01:11:18   of versioning Dropbox will do for the source situation you were in like hey I

01:11:22   just need to grab this thing I knew it was here a couple days ago whatever

01:11:25   it's really good and you can just restore it and it's um it's pretty great

01:11:30   and it's I think relatively new they haven't had it forever but it's

01:11:35   definitely a nice feature if you're looking at Dropbox as sort of a cloud

01:11:38   storage provider. Yeah and as Joe Steele said in the chat room, Dropbox versions

01:11:43   aren't forever, which is true, and then he also corrected himself by saying, "But

01:11:47   they're on my time machine." Right, so I have this weird setup, right, that kind of

01:11:51   via the two machines that I have, I feel pretty safe about my data, because

01:11:58   they are, yes, both in the same physical space, they actually sit next to each

01:12:02   other. They are literally next to each other at some points. They bang

01:12:06   into each other. But the data is kind of split across two different cloud

01:12:13   services, two SSDs, and a hard drive. It all meets around. I don't have

01:12:21   the off-site bootable backup like you do, but it's not an issue for me. I just

01:12:28   need to wait for a very very slow Dropbox download to occur. You know

01:12:33   it's not the end of the world like I could just wait for it just set it over a

01:12:38   couple of nights and I'll have everything back. It is what it is

01:12:43   considering the constraints I have this system works really well for me.

01:12:48   No I think I think you're a good example of like of those three rules I think you

01:12:54   I think you meet the criteria where it you don't have an off-site but it is

01:12:58   redundant in a sense that the main data on your macbook pro is also somewhere

01:13:02   else so that's redundant to a degree easy to manage and you know testable

01:13:07   you've been testing at the last couple weeks as some might say and so I think I

01:13:11   think that's sort of like the key here like no one like doing something is

01:13:17   better than doing nothing like if you look at my article and say well holy cow

01:13:21   I'm never gonna be able to do that.

01:13:22   I'm not gonna do anything.

01:13:25   That's the wrong approach.

01:13:26   It's all about finding what works for you in your budget

01:13:30   or in what hardware you have available to you

01:13:32   or in your situation with your upload speed being abysmal.

01:13:36   You can't do anything about that, unfortunately.

01:13:38   And so you have to live within the constraints

01:13:40   that it gives you.

01:13:41   And you've done that by doing a hotspot

01:13:43   for recording on Skype.

01:13:45   But it's just a matter of fact,

01:13:48   you just can't push gigabytes of stuff

01:13:50   to the cloud over that connection.

01:13:52   And so I think things like Dropbox,

01:13:55   well, I don't really like the idea of syncing

01:13:59   like software type stuff being a backup

01:14:05   in reality it sort of is.

01:14:07   I've got issues with it,

01:14:08   but it gets your data somewhere else.

01:14:10   And that's really the key thing here

01:14:12   where if your data is just on one machine,

01:14:14   your data is temporary, it's the way it is.

01:14:17   Because things fail, you drop a Coke on it,

01:14:20   it gets stolen off the subway,

01:14:22   like just the life happens to these devices.

01:14:24   And so to have that data elsewhere on the Mac at least

01:14:29   is not as easy as iOS,

01:14:34   but it's definitely doable and definitely sustainable

01:14:37   if you set it up correctly.

01:14:39   - Yep.

01:14:41   So my, I said I had another question for you,

01:14:46   which is iOS devices.

01:14:49   there's not really much you can do there.

01:14:53   Yeah I mean I back mine up to iCloud I pay for like the lowest tier iCloud

01:14:58   space because they're stenchy and my iPad and iPhone back up to iCloud. If I

01:15:04   do a big software update so like between versions or if I go to the beta I will

01:15:09   also I will do a backup to iTunes and just set that aside because if you

01:15:17   say you upgrade from iOS 8 to iOS 9 and for some reason you need to go back

01:15:22   which is very difficult but if you do your iCloud backup might be iOS 9

01:15:28   only. At times that's been true, other times it hasn't been and so the only

01:15:33   thing you really can do there is use iCloud then use iTunes as needed.

01:15:41   What really surprises me is that you don't have a biweekly or monthly regular backup

01:15:48   to iTunes.

01:15:49   I mean for me like...

01:15:52   But the reason I say this I know because you know, I know what you're about to say.

01:15:56   That you don't generate a lot of data or create a lot of data on the device.

01:16:00   But considering how many different ways you backup what's on your Mac.

01:16:05   Like five different ways basically.

01:16:07   I'm just surprised you don't at least do this every now and then.

01:16:10   I also sync my devices including purchases to iTunes like a lot more than I think Apple

01:16:17   wants me to.

01:16:21   If I needed to restore from iCloud then I could plug into iTunes and sync my apps back

01:16:25   over and so I'm sort of halfway there.

01:16:29   But yeah I see what you're saying.

01:16:32   I definitely see what you're getting at.

01:16:36   I'm worried that I'm causing some kind of nightmare now.

01:16:39   Yeah, let me just open my to-do list here and just make a repeating task.

01:16:46   iOS devices for me is kind of, and I do create a lot of data on them, but it's kind of just

01:16:52   like, eh, it goes to iCloud, I'm sure it'll be fine.

01:16:55   Yeah, you know if I had to rebuild an iOS device from scratch, like, my photos all get

01:17:00   sucked up to Dropbox automatically, so, and iCloud photo stream, even though I'm not using

01:17:05   photos anymore different topic but um if my iPad disappeared and my cloud backup

01:17:12   was three weeks old like it wouldn't be the end of the world we're on the Mac it

01:17:16   might be depending on what I'm doing what I'm working on so yeah it would be

01:17:22   nice to have you know some other alternatives for iOS I don't even know

01:17:27   what they would be you know I don't see them saying oh if you have a Synology

01:17:30   you can back your iOS device up to your Synology like that's just not going to

01:17:34   to happen. But the iCloud backup is really good. I haven't really ever had issues

01:17:38   out of it so I'll give Apple props there that what they have

01:17:43   included, like on the Mac with Time Machine, works pretty well most of the

01:17:47   time. I haven't ever had big issues with either Time Machine or iCloud backup on

01:17:52   iOS so I think they're doing something right there.

01:17:56   Is it weird that there isn't iCloud for the Mac? Like iCloud backups for the Mac?

01:18:02   - Yeah, I don't know what they would back up.

01:18:03   I mean, most people's user folder is gonna be,

01:18:07   you know, tens of gigabytes, if not hundreds of gigabytes.

01:18:11   And so, and maybe one day at this point,

01:18:14   looking at their pricing page,

01:18:16   like I don't know what they would charge for it.

01:18:18   I mean, my home folder at the time of this article

01:18:21   is probably the same.

01:18:22   Yeah, about 310 gigs.

01:18:24   That's a lot of data and Apple is just not

01:18:26   a big data company like Amazon or Backblaze or CrashPlan.

01:18:31   It'd be great if they get there. I think they might one day but I'm not surprised

01:18:35   I haven't done it yet.

01:18:38   Because you know that they could at least just back up like...

01:18:42   because they would know what media they wouldn't have to back up right?

01:18:46   They could build a tool in OS X and be like "we don't need to back up this movie!"

01:18:52   Because we know it's already in iTunes you know?

01:18:56   Agreed.

01:18:58   I don't know, I don't know, it's just something to think about but it is kind of just like

01:19:03   a, we give you this thing that you can plug in other than that go elsewhere.

01:19:08   I think that's probably how I think about it.

01:19:10   Yeah I think so.

01:19:12   Right, have you got anything else?

01:19:14   I think that about wraps it up for me.

01:19:16   I think that's it.

01:19:17   Cool, if you want to find our show notes for this week as we mentioned earlier go to relay.fm/connected/48.

01:19:24   If you want to find Steven online, he is at 512pixels.net, don't forget to buy his t-shirt

01:19:30   at the moment, just a few more days left on that, and he is @ismh on Twitter.

01:19:35   I am @imike, I-M-Y-K-E.

01:19:39   Thanks again to our sponsors for this week, Squarespace, Harry's and igloo, and we'll

01:19:44   be back next time.

01:19:45   Thank you so much for listening, until then, say goodbye sir.

01:19:48   Adios.

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