43: We Should Start a Bank Rumours Website


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:06   From Relay FM, this is Connected, episode number 43.

00:00:10   Today's show is brought to you by Igloo, an internet you'll actually like.

00:00:14   OmniFocus, which is now on the Apple Watch.

00:00:16   And Field Notes, I'm not writing it down to remember it later, I'm writing it down to remember it now.

00:00:22   My name is Myke Hurley and I'm coming to you live from San Francisco, California during WWDC.

00:00:27   and I have sitting right in front of my very eyes, Mr. Steven Hackett.

00:00:31   Hey, Myke. How you doing? I'm good.

00:00:32   We are we're very close.

00:00:34   I've been here all week doing shows and talking to people and hanging out.

00:00:37   So it's a lot of fun.

00:00:39   It's amazing what you can do in a hotel room to turn into a studio.

00:00:42   Not a lot, actually.

00:00:44   And I am always, as always, so honored to be joined by the lovely

00:00:48   Mr. Federico Fettucci from Italy. Hi, Federico.

00:00:51   Hey, Myke. How does it feel to be able to look deep

00:00:55   into the eyes of a man from Tennessee. I try not to stare. It's very scary. Federico, I'm

00:01:03   so happy to talk to you, but I'm so sad you're not here with us. Yeah, I'm sad too. I've

00:01:07   been scrolling pictures in my Twitter stream, people getting together in San Francisco,

00:01:14   and then of course last night I watched the crazy John Gruber, Ferd Shiller interview.

00:01:20   I was very jealous. That was kind of insane. That was a little bit insane.

00:01:25   But yes, I miss you guys very, very deeply and emotionally. Physically even.

00:01:32   But yes, I'm happy to be here to talk about stuff. Apple stuff. I'm really excited. Really happy.

00:01:42   Really excited and happy. So we're really happy to have you actually,

00:01:46   because this is one of the really weird things. When you're here, if you're not attending the

00:01:50   conference. It's really hard to keep up with what's happening.

00:01:53   Like, I pretty much just know everything that happened in the keynote, because I saw it,

00:01:58   and I spoke about it with Jason, and you pick up the occasional tidbit here and there from

00:02:02   people. But, like, I haven't been reading anything or anything like that, because we've

00:02:06   been all over town on our wild parties. So I'm very happy to have, you know, the well-read

00:02:14   Federico Vittucci here to educate us a little bit about some of the little things that we

00:02:18   may have missed from WWDC this week. Yeah it's a weird thing because there's so much stuff going on.

00:02:24   I watched about half of the State of the Union last night and then like basically fell asleep

00:02:28   watching it so... That's the best way to fall asleep. This should be good. Yes I fell asleep

00:02:34   as they were writing a Swift code for... Yeah that's like that's the best strategy just take a look at

00:02:41   some UI kit, some Swift and then fall asleep. Then you're done. So we're going to forego follow-up

00:02:47   this week because there's so much news. We have a lot of follow-ups so next week

00:02:50   will be I think a supersized follow-up section but we thought we would we would

00:02:57   jump right in and so they started the keynote started with with the Mac and

00:03:03   you know not I mean we'll get into this with iOS as well but definitely sort of

00:03:07   a slower cycle for OS X so we've got 10.11 El Capitan and I said that Myke

00:03:15   could see me I was gesturing wildly as I said it. So it's a smaller release right?

00:03:20   They you know it's refinements they screwed with window management again

00:03:24   because that's all they do and OSN releases has changed the way mission

00:03:28   control works but not a whole lot going on this time. Yeah well it seems like

00:03:35   they're focusing on the experience you know and improvements and it's funny

00:03:41   like how they try to frame the experience of... it's not like they're introducing any

00:03:47   major new apps to change the experience, it's like they want to make the experience of using

00:03:54   OS X better, so you see there's a couple of improvements in Mail, you can have tabs, you

00:03:59   can have gestures, there's a bunch of new stuff in Safari, and what was interesting

00:04:05   to me so I installed El Capitan which is by the way I think it's an awesome name it's

00:04:13   kind of funny it's kind of tongue-in-cheek maybe I don't know it just sounds funny to

00:04:16   me.

00:04:17   I don't like it I don't like it the reason I don't like it is because it's it's awkward

00:04:22   to say right and obviously I will need to be saying it out loud a lot and El Capitan

00:04:27   is just it's a mouthful I mean I assume we'll probably end up you know my understanding

00:04:33   is the mountain is referred to as El Cap,

00:04:36   and I can get a lot more on board with saying that

00:04:39   every time than El Capitan, El Capitan.

00:04:42   Although it is fun to say.

00:04:43   - It is, you have to do your little like,

00:04:46   - Hand gestures. - Dancing fingers.

00:04:47   - Yeah. - When you say it.

00:04:48   It's a fine name, like, it makes sense, you know,

00:04:51   it's part of Yosemite Park, and you know,

00:04:54   the mountain lion, lion, snow leopard, leopard, et cetera.

00:04:58   - The logic of it checks out.

00:04:59   - Yeah, and you know, they can, you know,

00:05:02   I'd written this thing and we never actually got to it on the show before

00:05:06   W2C but about like this is Apple need like a snow leopard moment and kind of what that means and I think they've done that

00:05:12   On on OS 10 this time and that's not to say I'm not excited about it. I think there's some really good stuff in there

00:05:17   I don't think we're talking about it very much, but you should definitely check out rocket which

00:05:21   Just published this morning

00:05:25   A lot of good conversation there about metal and what it means not only for game developers

00:05:30   but for people like Adobe, like who can use Metal to speed up their applications.

00:05:35   So a lot of stuff under the hood with OS X that I think is exciting,

00:05:39   but definitely not the biggest part of this keynote, even by, you know,

00:05:43   any stretch of the imagination.

00:05:44   Yeah.

00:05:45   Well, if anything, you know, Metal, it's confirmation of the fact that, uh,

00:05:49   the advancements that Apple is doing in terms of GPU and, you know,

00:05:53   having a graphics engine, uh, is growing faster and,

00:05:58   it's becoming more powerful quickly and if you compare that to innovation in the CPU,

00:06:05   where Apple depends on another company, it's clear, at least to me, so I'm kind of ignorant,

00:06:10   but I think it's easy to see that Apple can do this kind of stuff and they have deeper control

00:06:18   that instead of using something like OpenGL, they can do this kind of framework with Metal,

00:06:24   which can advance more quickly and it can go beyond games.

00:06:28   So they're kind of making up for the lack of advancements maybe in terms of

00:06:33   processing power in the CPU using Metal, which I think is really smart.

00:06:37   And maybe, Myke, you said on upgrade you would have liked to see another demo

00:06:43   during the keynote for this Metal stuff instead of a game, and I think I agree.

00:06:47   It would have been nice to have a demo from Adobe, you know, from this kind of

00:06:53   productivity intensive applications on the Mac, taking advantage of Metal. That would have been

00:06:59   really nice. I wanted to see someone like Adobe or Pixelmator come out and like show some insane,

00:07:05   you know, zooming and stuff like that. Like, some people didn't like how upset me and Jason were

00:07:10   about the game thing. But it's like the video game stuff, it doesn't like translate to me

00:07:18   as it doing anything interesting.

00:07:21   And I think to a lot of developers, it's the same.

00:07:23   I think to the majority of the developers,

00:07:25   the core people that are there in that audience even,

00:07:28   would get a bigger kick out of seeing an app like Photoshop

00:07:32   doing some really interesting stuff on stage.

00:07:34   - Right. Yeah.

00:07:36   I mean, you know, it's, you know,

00:07:37   we can talk a lot about demos,

00:07:39   and I think we should keep moving,

00:07:40   but, you know, it's just, I think it's really hard

00:07:42   to get a demo that, you know, hits a lot of your major points

00:07:45   and, like, resonates with the crowd.

00:07:48   and that's a hard thing to pull off.

00:07:51   But yeah, I think Metal's a big deal.

00:07:53   I think it'd be one of those things that sort of is

00:07:56   the highlight of this release, looking back on it.

00:08:00   Like as cool as it is to shake the cursor

00:08:01   and the cursor get bigger,

00:08:03   you know, that's probably not what Tell Our Kids is about.

00:08:06   - Well, that's a big selling feature, I think.

00:08:10   You'll be able to shake the mouse and see the cursor.

00:08:12   That's kind of funny, also true.

00:08:14   Many people do that.

00:08:15   I do, at least when I use a Mac twice a week, I do that kind of stuff.

00:08:20   So it'll be useful to me twice a week.

00:08:22   But by that metric, I think it's a major new feature.

00:08:26   I like what you did there.

00:08:29   I noticed it.

00:08:30   Shall we, uh, should we jump into iOS?

00:08:33   Already?

00:08:35   Wow.

00:08:36   Do you have anything else on the OS 10 side?

00:08:38   I just want to mention Safari.

00:08:41   OK, yeah, do it. Yeah.

00:08:43   Just because I'm really happy about, you know, you can pin tabs now.

00:08:47   Why does that make you happy? Because I don't really understand that so much, I don't think.

00:08:52   You don't understand pinned tabs?

00:08:53   Well, no, I get what it does, but like, I don't know why.

00:08:57   Safari always, always lacked this feature. And because of when I'm on my Mac, I always,

00:09:03   I mean, every day I always want to keep at least two tabs open. My website's analytics page and my

00:09:12   website's homepage. So these two pages, these two tabs are always open in Safari. And when

00:09:18   I'm on the Mac, on the iPad I can do the gesture really quickly, you know, to get the bird's

00:09:24   eye view of the tabs and I can keep those two open all the time. On the Mac I feel like

00:09:30   the tabs are so large I really want to be able to use the screen to have a bunch of

00:09:34   tabs to the left and to have them always open, you know. And I love this feature in Chrome

00:09:41   and I'm really happy that it's now in Safari. I'm also happy the way that they designed

00:09:47   like the way that you as a website owner, like how you can customize the icon that shows

00:09:52   up for users. You can provide an SVG file and it can be, you know, you have a bit of

00:09:59   control over how it shows up in pin tabs and I would be really happy to have this feature

00:10:06   at least on the iPad.

00:10:08   Doesn't look like it's happening on the iPad.

00:10:10   Maybe eventually, we'll see, I don't know.

00:10:12   Just a minor thing that makes me happy.

00:10:15   - Yeah, it's one of those niceties

00:10:17   that Chrome has had for a long time.

00:10:19   And it's good to see Apple continuing

00:10:22   to be competitive in this space

00:10:24   because for a lot of people, Chrome is a lot better.

00:10:27   And the reason it's not my primary browser

00:10:29   is the battery life impact that the Chrome has.

00:10:32   So it's nice to see some of those things

00:10:34   that make Chrome a little bit nicer,

00:10:37   make their way over to the Mac.

00:10:39   Like they were doing the thing where if there's audio playing

00:10:42   in the tab, the tab gets a little icon on it.

00:10:44   So if you open to have a bunch of things

00:10:46   and suddenly something starts playing music

00:10:49   or an advertisement or something comes up,

00:10:51   you can quickly find it and hush it.

00:10:53   So that's good.

00:10:55   It's a nice little feature that once you have it,

00:10:57   you're kind of sad that it's not there.

00:10:59   - All right, I'm gonna take a quick break

00:11:03   And then I think we should jump into iOS because I thought this is a nice point to thank a friend.

00:11:07   What do you think?

00:11:07   Oh right!

00:11:08   Yeah?

00:11:08   This is sponsored and makes me very happy.

00:11:11   This week's episode of Connected is brought to you by Field Notes.

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00:13:38   So go get it right now. When they're gone, they're gone. Field Notes. I'm not writing

00:13:42   it down to remember it later. I'm writing it down to remember it now. So iOS 9. iOS

00:13:51   Huh?

00:13:52   Yeah.

00:13:53   Excited about that, Federico?

00:13:55   Well, I think I was surprised.

00:14:00   My initial reaction was a surprise

00:14:02   because there were a lot of rumors,

00:14:05   but I kept thinking that maybe Apple, especially coming

00:14:09   after OS X in the keynote, I was like,

00:14:13   maybe Apple is really doing a Snow Leopard release on iOS 2

00:14:18   because they want to improve the experience.

00:14:20   They want to improve performance, so maybe we won't see much new stuff.

00:14:26   And instead, we did get not the same amount of changes of iOS 7 and iOS 8, but we did

00:14:34   get quite a bit of new stuff.

00:14:36   And especially on the iPad, and especially on the iPhone for some apps, there's going

00:14:42   to be major changes, I think, to the way that iOS works.

00:14:46   And I don't know, do you guys want to start from a specific point?

00:14:51   I just want to talk about Siri, if it's okay.

00:14:53   Yeah, that's why I want to park iPad for a moment, because that's like a whole separate

00:14:57   discussion, right?

00:14:58   Yes.

00:14:59   Because a lot of the stuff that's in iOS, well, all the other stuff that's in iOS is

00:15:02   going to be on both, but iPad is gaining some additional functions that I can't even imagine

00:15:07   how you feel about them, so we're going to put that to the side for a minute.

00:15:11   But talk to me a little bit about Siri and the proactive stuff, because this is something

00:15:15   that obviously a lot of people have been talking about on the heels of Google I/O, right? Because

00:15:19   Google is showing their chops of what they know and what they can do to make a proactive

00:15:23   assistant. Microsoft are trying to do a lot of the same with Cortana. I don't think they

00:15:27   can do it as effectively because their ecosystems are built slightly differently. But when they

00:15:31   showed off Cortana originally, I remember us talking about it on the show and we were

00:15:34   impressed by some of the stuff it can do. So it seems like Siri now is extending itself

00:15:40   into many different parts of the operating system. It has new ways that you can interact

00:15:44   of it and it has new ways of interacting with you. So Federico what have been some of the

00:15:48   overview and the highlight things that you've seen which interests you about this kind of

00:15:53   new digital assistant kind of like for Siri? Well the main change is that now Siri can learn from

00:16:00   your habits and from your daily routine. It can learn your patterns so when you wake up

00:16:09   what app you use during the day, what do you do, which apps are the most used ones, and

00:16:14   do you use a specific app at a specific time of the day, maybe in a specific location.

00:16:20   So for instance, Apple actually demoed all these features quite nicely with a bit of

00:16:26   a story. You wake up in the morning and you want to, you know, usually you check out your

00:16:31   meditation app, so when you wake up in the lower left corner of the lock screen, which

00:16:36   is now dedicated to hand-off and to suggested apps when you're at a specific location, such

00:16:42   as the Apple Store or Starbucks. Now, in the morning, because iOS knows which is the app

00:16:48   that you want to open first thing when you're out of bed, it can offer you a shortcut to

00:16:54   open that app. And of course it goes deeper. Maybe you're at the gym and you want to listen

00:17:00   to music and iOS knows that you listen to music because you can see the location, you

00:17:04   can see the time of the day, it remembers your habits, so as soon as you plug in your

00:17:09   headphones and presumably only if it's a specific time of the day and only if you're actually

00:17:14   at the gym, it'll automatically start playing music and maybe I suppose a specific playlist

00:17:20   or maybe a specific artist depending on your taste.

00:17:23   So really what Apple wants to do is they want to use you as your own recommendation engine

00:17:33   basically. They observe you, the apps that you use, the time, the location. I suppose

00:17:40   that they can look at the people you communicate with. There's all bunch of metrics they want

00:17:45   to rely on to make you save time and to kind of make iOS come to you. In the sense that

00:17:55   you don't need to open apps, you don't need to find music, you don't need to go hunt the

00:18:00   contact list and find the specific person because there's a new search page and you

00:18:05   can just open the search page and you will get a new contacts grid with contacts depending

00:18:11   on the time of the day. So when they say they want to be proactive, they mean that they

00:18:18   can look at all this data. And this is where it gets a bit strange. Most of the time this

00:18:27   kind of processing is done locally on the device and your iPhone and your iPad can learn

00:18:34   your habits and they can form a sort of personal database of your life and your routine and

00:18:41   the things that you do, the apps that you use, and they can update this database of

00:18:46   knowledge over time and provide you with proactive recommendations and actions. And Apple is

00:18:53   also saying we want to keep as little data about you as possible on our servers. But

00:19:00   sometimes we do need to do some processing in the cloud. And when we do, we want to anonymize

00:19:08   your data so it's not linked to your Apple ID, it's not linked to other third-party Apple

00:19:13   services. So, for instance, if we know something about your context and about the people you

00:19:20   communicate with, we want to compare the data with Apple Maps. So there won't be any cross-pollination

00:19:28   basically of services when we do this kind of intelligence. And they're also saying, of course,

00:19:35   we won't sell this. We won't give this data to any third parties. And the reference to Google was

00:19:40   pretty clear. And the question, so I've been trying iOS 9 on all my devices, and I've been

00:19:49   reading the documentation and it's not exactly clear how Apple will form these habits, you

00:19:56   know? How it will look at you and the way that you use your device. Because there's

00:20:00   a bit of a history here. If you go back to iOS 7, when Apple introduced a background

00:20:08   app refresh, they were saying, "We know when you use an app during the day and how many

00:20:15   times you check the same app and using the background refresh we can optimize your network

00:20:22   usage and your battery consumption by refreshing an app in the background only when it needs

00:20:28   to because we know when you're gonna use it. And the concept here is kinda similar, only

00:20:34   you know it's been extended to a bunch of more data points so it's people, it's location,

00:20:39   it's actions, but the concept is similar. It works in the background, it works on your

00:20:43   device, it knows what you want to do, and then it provides you with recommendations on the lock

00:20:49   screen, with automatic actions, so you plug in your headphones and it starts music, and there's

00:20:55   a new search page where it's got all this new interface for people, for apps, for news, which

00:21:04   is kind of weird because it's based on Bing, I think. So, yeah, what's interesting is, actually,

00:21:13   My concern is also, is this going to be useful, basically?

00:21:20   You've nailed exactly what I've been thinking of, right?

00:21:22   Which is, Google is good at this because this is what they do.

00:21:27   Right.

00:21:27   They've got entire-- not only they're good at it,

00:21:30   but I just can't imagine that this would be as smart

00:21:34   or as intelligent as something that can run in a giant server

00:21:38   farm.

00:21:39   Privacy stuff aside, which we can get into if we want,

00:21:43   I just don't like have they built something powerful enough that runs on device to do all this and and you know

00:21:51   I think to Federica I think your analogy to i07 was was great actually hadn't even

00:21:54   Thought about that

00:21:57   You know Apple has been doing some of this

00:21:59   But I just I just I hope that it can be good because the thing is if a service like this

00:22:05   Isn't really good. It's just annoying

00:22:08   Yeah

00:22:08   Right? Like if you're, you know, like if you log into Netflix and it keeps, it keeps showing

00:22:12   you like that one TV show, like I just don't want to see it. Like that greats on you. Think

00:22:15   how much more it'll be like, no, I don't want to open that app every morning. Stop. Why

00:22:19   is this, you know, keep popping up. So I hope they've, they've really worked to get it right.

00:22:26   It's interesting to me because it seems that they are fascinated by these intelligence

00:22:33   and machine learning and you know, all this stuff that Google is doing.

00:22:36   They, they seem to be interested in this space, but they don't want to be

00:22:42   as creepy in their minds and according to many other people, they don't want

00:22:46   to be, you know, creepy as we take all your data and we work our magic in a black

00:22:52   box and we gave you the intelligence as a result, they are fascinated by this

00:22:57   idea, but they don't want to do too much.

00:22:59   And so it can be weird when you, or maybe weird for now, because we don't know if it's

00:23:05   going to work or not.

00:23:06   But here's an example.

00:23:08   If you go into the settings of iOS 9, you can decide whether Siri or the intelligent

00:23:16   assistant, if he should be able to look into your email and to match phone numbers with

00:23:25   email messages.

00:23:26   So when a phone number calls you and it's not in your contact list, the assistant can

00:23:31   look into the email and associate a person or a likely match with that phone number.

00:23:38   So Apple is kind of, they want to do this stuff.

00:23:42   They want to do this, let's look into a bunch of places and let's elaborate on all this

00:23:47   data and let's give the users the information they wouldn't be able to remember or to do

00:23:53   otherwise because it would take a lot of time.

00:23:56   But they're also doing this locally with settings and they tell you, "Yeah, we don't want your

00:24:01   data, but sometimes it goes into iCloud, but we make sure that it stays secure and we don't

00:24:07   give it to other people."

00:24:09   So it's a strange mix for now because we don't know if it's going to be useful on a daily

00:24:14   basis.

00:24:15   And for me, that's the main point.

00:24:17   Is this going to be useful?

00:24:19   Will these new search page or lock screen shortcuts and actions, will they make me go,

00:24:26   "Oh wow, I really wasn't expecting this to be here.

00:24:29   This is really useful."

00:24:30   This is what I wanna, you know,

00:24:32   I want my reaction to be, "Wow."

00:24:35   And right now, of course, it's, you know, three days.

00:24:37   I can't say that I've been wowed by iOS 9 and Proactivity,

00:24:41   but we'll see.

00:24:42   It's interesting because I can feel

00:24:46   that they wanna do this stuff,

00:24:48   but I don't know if they can.

00:24:51   - You see, going back to that email thing,

00:24:53   I think that that is a prime example of the difference,

00:24:55   So you're giving Apple access to look into your email,

00:24:59   to match telephone numbers of people

00:25:01   that you don't have in your caller ID or in your contacts.

00:25:05   That's not enough.

00:25:06   Like I want my intelligent assistant

00:25:08   to know when I have a flight,

00:25:10   to know when I have a package delivered, you know?

00:25:13   Which is the stuff that Google does

00:25:15   with Gmail and Google Now.

00:25:16   Just saying like, oh, scan my email for phone numbers.

00:25:20   Like that is not, I mean, that's a useful feature,

00:25:22   but I want more than that.

00:25:24   And it may do more at some point or may do more now.

00:25:27   We just don't don't know it at this point.

00:25:30   But it is one of those things too of like so I could say that I opted on that on my

00:25:34   phone and my iPad I guess.

00:25:36   You know about you guys but well actually I do know about you Federico but you know

00:25:40   my iPad might sit for a couple of days at a point and you know sometimes my mail

00:25:45   hasn't refreshed or you know there's all these things going on.

00:25:47   So there's the opportunity because it's client based because it's local for to be

00:25:51   outdated, you know, sort of the nice thing about the Gmail and the Google Now stuff,

00:25:58   like as soon as you get an email from Delta saying, you know, this is your flight

00:26:00   information, like it's your your assistant, your intelligence platform doesn't have to

00:26:08   wait for me to check my email.

00:26:09   Right. Like it knows before you do.

00:26:11   Right. And so, you know, I think this is all the same point of like, this is really

00:26:15   great. I hope this is successful.

00:26:17   I want it to be successful. I want to use this.

00:26:19   I often look at Google Now, I'm like,

00:26:21   I wish I had some of that stuff available to me

00:26:24   as like a first party interwoven service in my device.

00:26:28   You can use Google Now on the phone,

00:26:30   but it's in an app and it's got some issues.

00:26:33   And so, yeah, I think we're all saying the same thing,

00:26:36   that we want this to be successful,

00:26:38   we're looking forward to using it,

00:26:39   but maybe it's fair to say that Apple has to sell us

00:26:44   on its usefulness and its relevance throughout the day.

00:26:47   Third parties can't do anything for this, can they?

00:26:50   There's nothing for a third party to do,

00:26:52   to give Apple any information or anything like that.

00:26:55   - So maybe for an example, like your to-do list,

00:26:58   like Siri can't crawl your to-do list and pull task in,

00:27:01   like that sort of third party information?

00:27:03   - Yeah.

00:27:04   - Do you know Federico?

00:27:04   I don't think it does.

00:27:06   - There's, I don't think there's a,

00:27:08   as far as intelligence and productivity is concerned,

00:27:12   there's nothing I think developers can do.

00:27:16   There's no Siri API, nothing like that yet.

00:27:20   So it's all iOS.

00:27:22   It's all the iPhone and the iPad and whatever.

00:27:25   - All you jokers running around

00:27:27   with third-party mail clients.

00:27:29   - Yeah, exactly. - Do you have to have

00:27:30   your account set up in mail and fetching

00:27:32   so this can stay up to date?

00:27:34   - Yeah.

00:27:35   - That's a little weird.

00:27:36   - Stop.

00:27:37   - This is a start.

00:27:37   But the thing is that the issue with them starting now

00:27:40   is Google are so far ahead.

00:27:42   - Right.

00:27:43   No, absolutely.

00:27:44   They are behind in this.

00:27:45   I don't think there's anyone on the planet who would disagree with you on that.

00:27:48   But I also want to make the...

00:27:51   I feel like it's appropriate to make the counter argument to that.

00:27:55   For millions of people, they don't use Google Now.

00:27:58   Yeah, of course.

00:27:59   And maybe they don't...

00:28:00   You know, there's people...

00:28:01   I don't want to say, you know, normal people has become an awful...

00:28:03   No, I get you.

00:28:04   They don't care that they're behind because they don't know what it's like.

00:28:06   Like my mom, for example.

00:28:07   Yeah, she doesn't care.

00:28:08   My mom.

00:28:09   Yeah, I get that.

00:28:10   She doesn't care about Gmail and Google Now and Google Inbox.

00:28:13   She has an iPhone and maybe one day she will update to iOS 9.

00:28:17   And if someday she comes to me and says, "Hey, you know, my iPhone kind of shows me Facebook

00:28:24   in the morning," or, "I didn't know what this number was, but I saw that it was like

00:28:29   a local business calling me," how did that happen?

00:28:33   And I feel like Apple is late for us to this sort of intelligence game, but there's also

00:28:41   So many, many other people that don't rely on Google's intelligence.

00:28:47   And so I think the market is still open for those people.

00:28:51   So maybe it's, I mean, for the tech press, for the tech people like us, it's too late,

00:28:57   but it's never too late, really.

00:28:59   Well, in some cases it is too late, you know, but maybe not in this one.

00:29:05   So I got some great news.

00:29:07   I got both Apple Pay in the UK in July and then Transit Maps as well in Apple Maps.

00:29:13   That Transit Maps stuff looks fantastic and that's what I'm really looking for, especially

00:29:18   to link him with my Apple Watch.

00:29:20   The Apple Pay stuff, I'm very excited about that.

00:29:23   I can't wait to start using Apple Pay.

00:29:27   What's the first thing you're gonna buy with Apple Pay?

00:29:29   A present for you.

00:29:31   I was thinking maybe you should buy an Android phone with Apple Pay.

00:29:36   This is the thing, right?

00:29:37   So in the UK, it's probably gonna be limited

00:29:39   to 20 pound transactions,

00:29:40   'cause that's how the contactless system works.

00:29:42   - I saw that. - Yes.

00:29:43   - So that's limitation of like the system itself, not, okay.

00:29:47   - But I do know that there is stuff happening

00:29:50   to increase the limits,

00:29:52   but it's because of the way we already have

00:29:54   all that functionality in place.

00:29:56   But to be honest, for anything over like 20 pounds,

00:30:00   I would maybe wanna go through a bit more

00:30:01   of a full on process than just tapping my phone.

00:30:05   I don't know, but maybe I'm used to that.

00:30:07   You should start a bank rumors website.

00:30:08   Bankrumors.com.

00:30:10   To be fair, you can buy an Android for 20 pounds, I think.

00:30:14   Federico.

00:30:15   You probably could.

00:30:18   I mean, and it probably wouldn't be too good.

00:30:21   Yeah, the Apple Pay segment was great.

00:30:24   It was one of the two sections of the keynote led by women,

00:30:28   which is we can all agree

00:30:30   that Apple is catching up there as well.

00:30:32   There's a great interview by our friend and a rocket co-host Christina Warren on Mashable an interview with Tim Cook and he and she

00:30:40   to her full credit pushed him really hard on that fact and I think Apple is starting to

00:30:45   Come not come around but start to you know address this issue and

00:30:52   the

00:30:54   you know, it was great like that this is like the vice president in charge of Apple pay and

00:30:58   I think I think it's really good stuff to bring like loyalty cards and and reward cards to it

00:31:04   So if I you know if my favorite coffee shop has a rewards program they can they can do that all through Apple Pay as well

00:31:11   So it's it's good to see Apple advancing

00:31:13   You know

00:31:13   I forget Apple pays only what nine or nine months old because it was introduced with

00:31:17   When the watch was announced in September and I feel like they're making

00:31:21   Really like steady good progress on it, which is which is great. I

00:31:27   Think I've talked about on the show before I only have one card that can use it

00:31:31   my primary bank doesn't support it yet, but

00:31:34   Every day every time they refresh that list like these are the banks that support it

00:31:39   I always go and like try to find my bank and then I send them another email

00:31:43   bank rumors so sad

00:31:46   Better eco tell me

00:31:48   About Apple news. Are they calling it? No, actually I

00:31:53   totally skipped search. I think this is a major initiative and Apple kind of downplayed

00:32:01   this aspect at the keynote. So I mean Spotlight is getting a redesign of course and that's not

00:32:10   the big news. Apple is doing a lot of new things to make you not use Google search and I feel like

00:32:22   the APIs they have launched and what they're telling developers will be a major, major play

00:32:29   in the next few years. So in search, in iOS 9, which by the way, Apple is using a lot the term

00:32:36   just search, not spotlight, the developer framework is called core spotlight, but the end user feature,

00:32:45   they always refer to that as search, not spotlight. So it's interesting.

00:32:50   So Apple is doing a bunch of new things. They're doing deep linking, which refers to the ability to

00:32:57   open a specific section inside an app. So they're combining this deep linking support with a back

00:33:06   backlinking feature. So if you open a link from Messages in iOS 9, Safari slides in from

00:33:13   the right, there's a new launching animation, and you get a back button in the upper left

00:33:21   corner, kind of like an X-Callback URL in Google Chrome before, and you tap that button

00:33:27   and you go back to Messages. And it's all done automatically by iOS, it already works

00:33:32   with third party apps, even if they're not updated for iOS 9, and it's amazingly useful.

00:33:39   So deep linking, there's a back linking feature, but the real deal is that Apple is now able

00:33:47   to index content from local apps, from websites, and to put all this together and let you search

00:33:59   for stuff and open that result directly into the app, effectively skipping Google altogether.

00:34:06   And this will work for local apps, so OmniFocus will be able to advertise your tasks to search,

00:34:14   so you will be able to search for Relay and you get a list of tasks and projects for Relay

00:34:20   in OmniFocus, assuming that OmniFocus updates for search and you will be able to search

00:34:26   for, you know, maybe Instapaper ads support for search and you can search for articles

00:34:33   from the search box in iOS 9.

00:34:36   This is now swipe again, isn't it? It's not swipe down. You swipe over and you're given

00:34:40   this new search panel.

00:34:41   You can swipe over, but you can still swipe down. It's kind of weird because you've got

00:34:45   two search boxes. One is the old position you swipe down. The other is a new search

00:34:51   page kind of like iOS 6 and the intelligent stuff is only in the search page. I think

00:34:57   that we'll have to make a decision by the final release.

00:35:00   I'm hoping that you're about to make me feel really good here. If you're on the home screen

00:35:05   and you tap the home button once, what happens?

00:35:07   Let's see.

00:35:10   Please tell me it goes to the search page.

00:35:12   That's how it used to work.

00:35:13   Yeah, and I missed that.

00:35:14   Right now it doesn't. Right now it doesn't.

00:35:15   I missed that function so much.

00:35:17   - I really feel like they need to finish things up here.

00:35:21   There's two different ways to activate search

00:35:24   and it's kind of weird.

00:35:25   - That's fine.

00:35:26   - It's fine, it's not an album.

00:35:27   - Anyway, besides the ability to, you know,

00:35:29   so an app can, OmniFocus can say,

00:35:32   hey, I got this content, you can index this content

00:35:36   and developers get the ability to update this content

00:35:40   in the background for search.

00:35:42   So let's say that OmniFocus refreshes in the background,

00:35:45   the data changes and it can tell to the core Spotlight framework, you can say "Hey, my

00:35:51   content has changed, so index me because you will find new stuff and you need to remove

00:35:56   a bunch of old entries". So local apps can show stuff to search and that's awesome because

00:36:03   we all wanted to be able to search for data, items, articles, links, photos, whatever,

00:36:09   anything. We always wanted to be able to search for content from apps and this is happening

00:36:14   with iOS 9. Even bigger news. Apple is saying that they will index web content and here's

00:36:24   where it gets a bit, you know, kind of potentially awesome, tricky for now because we don't know

00:36:31   yet. So my assumption is that they are using Apple Bot, which is the web crawler that they

00:36:37   have created to index web pages. And they're saying, "We will index your web page if you

00:36:44   add a bunch of tags to your website. We will see your content, we will index your data,

00:36:51   and it will be available to iOS 9 through web search. When the user taps on these web-powered

00:37:00   results, they have the option to not go to your website, but to go to your local app

00:37:10   inside a specific section.

00:37:11   So they are linking web results based on web indexing to local apps.

00:37:18   And the magic glue that's holding all this together, it's called Universal Links.

00:37:23   There's so much stuff here, man.

00:37:25   I'm getting so lost by all these new terms.

00:37:28   Yes.

00:37:29   And Universal Links is the technology that will allow web pages, websites, web links,

00:37:36   HTTP links, to go directly to apps.

00:37:39   So in iOS 9, assuming that all developers add support for this kind of stuff, let me

00:37:44   describe you a typical scenario.

00:37:47   You're browsing Twitter and Federico, which is me, shares a link to a Spotify song.

00:37:58   I tap the link and I don't go to a webview, I don't go to the Spotify website in Safari,

00:38:05   I go to the Spotify app directly inside the album or the song that I shared.

00:38:12   Let's also say that MacStories makes an iOS app eventually.

00:38:20   iOS Search can index my web content from the website.

00:38:26   The user can open the search box, search for iOS 9,

00:38:34   And if everything works correctly, iOS 9 will return a list of my articles about iOS 9.

00:38:41   The user taps that result and he opens in a Mac stories app or to the Mac stories website

00:38:49   and none of this data ever touched Google.

00:38:53   So I feel like this is a major play by Apple in search and it's using a bunch of different

00:39:02   technologies.

00:39:03   It's kind of interesting that a large portion of this stuff is based on handoff from last year.

00:39:09   So resuming user activity across apps, across devices, and there's new technologies like web indexing,

00:39:16   universal links, deep linking, the ability to easily go back to the previous app.

00:39:22   There's going to be major, I feel at least, just looking at the documentation, talking to a bunch of people,

00:39:29   this is going to be a major change in iOS and I feel like a lot of developers, a lot of companies and websites will rush to make their content indexable by Apple, by Applebot, whatever, by iOS 9 search.

00:39:46   And if I were Google, I wouldn't say I would be worried,

00:39:51   but I would be starting to feel concerned, to say the least.

00:39:58   Because Spotlight has been able to do web stuff for a while,

00:40:02   but it was always limited.

00:40:04   Now Apple is saying, we want you to be able to go from the web

00:40:09   to the app easily.

00:40:10   And you don't need to go to google.com and type.

00:40:13   We want you to search here.

00:40:15   and then you always end up either directly on the website or into the app

00:40:19   and you'd never need to open a search engine

00:40:23   it's kinda

00:40:24   big stuff you know? Yeah, it feels like there's an ever growing tension

00:40:29   between apple and google you know uh... Tim Cook spoke

00:40:33   a couple weeks ago the confined transcript, we'll put it in the uh... in the show notes

00:40:37   oh and I didn't tell you the best part

00:40:40   sorry guys I totally forgot

00:40:42   I even wrote about this

00:40:45   If you're looking, so let's say again,

00:40:47   use my Mac Stories example.

00:40:49   You use iOS 9 search to look for articles from me

00:40:53   on your iOS device.

00:40:55   And iOS 9 finds articles from macstories.net.

00:41:00   Using universal links and a bunch of other pieces of code

00:41:05   that Apple is doing with iOS 9,

00:41:08   search knows that Mac Stories actually has an iOS app

00:41:13   the App Store. But maybe you don't have the app installed on your device. So from the

00:41:18   search results, and Myke, you should be familiar with this stuff because we talked about this

00:41:22   for Android. From the iOS 9 search results, you tap the link to my article and iOS maybe

00:41:30   prompts up a dialogue and says "Hey, you know, you're going to this website, but these websites,

00:41:36   they actually have an app. Do you want to download the app right now and continue your

00:41:40   searching to the app. So Apple is kind of also using App Discovery in this new feature.

00:41:48   They want you to be able to look for stuff, whether it's local like OmniFocus or whether

00:41:52   it's from the web through Apple Bot and web indexing, and they want you to always end

00:41:57   up into a native app, whether it's already installed or whether there's a stop in the

00:42:04   middle, you need to download the app and then you can continue. Google is doing the same

00:42:08   thing, basically like the same technology. App indexing on Android and Apple is doing

00:42:15   the same thing now. So it seems to me like Apple is making a bit, they're kind of saying

00:42:24   we want you to never go to Google again. Right. That's what I was getting to. There's

00:42:30   this rift between Google and Apple that seems like it's growing. Not only do you have

00:42:34   Tim Cook sort of going off the handle in a way that I found a little

00:42:38   uncomfortable about the privacy stuff but they keep you know doing the keynote

00:42:43   doing these other sessions that is a common topic of you know we're doing

00:42:48   this because we're doing it in this way because we don't want your data or to

00:42:53   protect customer privacy and customer information and and you know it does

00:42:59   seem like that is sort of a consuming thought with Apple right now of not

00:43:03   necessarily beating Google but trying to be really different from them like an

00:43:07   ideological way and again like like there's all this other stuff with the

00:43:12   intelligence and everything else that like that's great if it works and but

00:43:17   the search stuff does seem doesn't pretty great and I think that the ability

00:43:22   to move between applications based on the content you want makes a lot of

00:43:26   sense I just hope that you know you know I hope that it's done in a way that's

00:43:32   not confusing which I think is why like if you look at screenshots those

00:43:35   backlinks say different things in different contexts to help like leave

00:43:39   breadcrumbs for a user to go back to where they were. Say what you will about

00:43:44   the you know I click on a link in tweet bot, tweet bot closes and the app store

00:43:48   opens showing that transition helps a user understand what's going on so I

00:43:55   hope that you know that's not a an issue for them but I am excited about the you

00:44:01   the ability to find content within applications and to kind of move between them in a more

00:44:08   fluid and dynamic way. Last two points quickly before we move on.

00:44:12   Apple is saying to basically, you know, there's a spam concern. What if, you know, spammers try

00:44:21   to use this technology in search to show up in places they're not supposed to? So Apple is saying

00:44:26   you should avoid over indexing your app content or using unrelated keywords because iOS measures

00:44:33   the level of user engagement and so we will basically pull your results from search if you

00:44:39   do this kind of stuff. Interesting, we'll see how accurate this will be in practice.

00:44:45   And second, you can now use Siri kind of like Google Now, you know, you can when you're doing

00:44:52   something in an app, you can bring up Siri and say "hey, remember to do this" and this

00:44:58   portion of the command refers to what you're looking at. So this is kinda similar on a

00:45:04   smaller scale to Now on Tap, which is Google's way of bringing Google Now as a layer on top

00:45:10   of any app on your Android device. Now you will be able to say "I want to do this to

00:45:15   Siri" and Siri should be able to understand what you wanna be reminded of. So it seems

00:45:21   to me that it's only limited to serial reminders, but it will work with third-party apps if

00:45:26   they add support for the search metadata. So we'll see, I don't know. It's interesting.

00:45:33   Yeah, absolutely. Let's move on to news quickly. So news is a new app from Apple. It seems

00:45:41   to be kind of the next stage of something like newsstand combined with Facebook's instant

00:45:47   articles plus an RSS reader plus Flipboard, right? It's those kinds of things all mashed into one.

00:45:52   Publishers can submit their stories to news and there's different layout options and stuff that

00:45:58   you can get and it kind of seems like they're, Apple are kind of hinting towards the fact that

00:46:04   anybody can do this and you'll get different tools, whatever they will be, to lay out your

00:46:10   articles in a certain way. Like it doesn't seem like there's necessarily going to be with like

00:46:14   pump stuff in, like you have to go in and make it look pretty because that's what Apple

00:46:18   will want. So Federico, are you looking at this with Mac stories? Do you want to be in

00:46:23   news?

00:46:24   Federico Yes. Yes, because for me, it can only be a

00:46:28   benefit. I talked about this before. My business model is not based on page views. It's based

00:46:36   on whether people read my stuff or not. And so it's based on whether people like what

00:46:41   I do or not. And to be able to let more people know about me and to let more people read

00:46:47   my stuff and our stuff from the team easily, it's essential to us. And so this is why we

00:46:55   have an open RSS feed, you can read us in your RSS reader, I don't care. I just want

00:47:01   you to read as comfortably as possible. And I want to show up in Apple News. I'm interested

00:47:08   in the... you know, you can keep your advertising revenue if you choose to use ads on Apple

00:47:14   News. It's kind of... I don't know if there will be a system to say "Hey, I want to have

00:47:23   nice print-like articles here every day. What kind of tool can I use? Can I automate this

00:47:29   process so every article that I make always shows up with a nice layout? Or will this

00:47:36   only for specific articles, so I need to use an app like iBooks Author to make special

00:47:41   layouts just for specific stories. I don't understand how the RSS stuff works for now,

00:47:47   but I signed up anyway because, hey, whatever, I just want to show up in Apple News. It's

00:47:51   interesting how Apple is saying "We're doing machine learning!" also here in Apple News.

00:47:57   And we know about a million topics.

00:48:01   And in theory, people will search for iPad productivity, and if the Apple machine learning

00:48:09   is accurate, I should show up.

00:48:12   We'll see.

00:48:13   Again, Apple is doing new stuff with intelligence, and they're not a proven solution yet.

00:48:20   We'll see.

00:48:22   But definitely, I want to be in Apple News.

00:48:24   I want to be everywhere.

00:48:26   That's my dream. I just I just while you're talking went to the news publisher page

00:48:31   And it says to get started open this page in a Mac or PC browser

00:48:35   Tap here to email the link to yourself, so you can't sign up for this on your iPad which is

00:48:41   hysterical but um

00:48:43   Yeah, I think it's I think it's interesting. We spoke about it a little bit on clockwise today. I think my

00:48:48   problem with it is that

00:48:52   Apple has to make sure that good content is there or people just won't use it

00:48:56   It'll be you know

00:48:57   Another thing that Apple tried and didn't work out and it goes away in three years

00:49:01   So I do think I mean, I think everybody we've talked to this week has been excited about putting their content into it

00:49:08   Look forward to playing with it myself when I get home and saying, you know what I could do in there with with 512 pixels

00:49:14   But I think they've got to prove that it's useful

00:49:17   Yeah, definitely

00:49:21   Okay, so I want to talk about the iPad, right?

00:49:24   That's something that I think everybody is tuning in for has been waiting for the last hour for us to start talking about

00:49:30   Well that and Apple Music. Yeah, I don't know man

00:49:34   I think people want to hear your thoughts on the iPad a little bit more

00:49:37   Whilst we're here. I'm not kidding people coming up to us to just saying what does Federico think about the iPad?

00:49:44   It's like I don't know yet. I haven't spoken to him. So I'm excited

00:49:48   I'm wondering if you're gonna like it or not, we'll find out.

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00:51:43   Thank you so much to the Omni Group for supporting this show and all of Relay FM.

00:51:46   Federico, that little thing called iPad, what's going on there?

00:51:51   Did you read my article today?

00:51:55   I haven't read anything.

00:51:57   Okay.

00:51:58   So I'm gonna discuss my...

00:52:01   Basically, what I said in the article and I kinda saved some thoughts for the show.

00:52:10   So there's new multitasking.

00:52:12   And during the keynote, actually, Apple also

00:52:16   talked about a bunch of new features for iPad productivity--

00:52:21   a new keyboard, a new way to move the text selection

00:52:26   and the cursor on the screen.

00:52:28   And there's going to be a new way to watch videos

00:52:30   with picture in picture.

00:52:33   My short take is that there's still

00:52:39   going to be people who don't need an iPad or don't get why other people like the iPad.

00:52:46   And that's okay, because we talked about this before. Everybody has his own favorite tool,

00:52:53   and this is a judgment-free zone, so we're not talking about the way other people do

00:52:59   their work every day. But for people who use an iPad every day, I feel like, and I thought

00:53:07   about this deeply as you can imagine for the past two days I installed iOS 9 on my iPad,

00:53:13   yes. I installed iOS 9 on my primary iPad because I need to understand this as soon

00:53:18   as possible. And I just can't shake the feeling that this is going to be the biggest change

00:53:24   to the iPad in five years even. This is what people like me wanted, to be able to do more

00:53:35   with simplicity and without the complexity of a computer.

00:53:42   And I know that this will sound crazy to people who use a computer because there's nothing complex about standard windows.

00:53:49   But it's different.

00:53:52   So I truly believe that Apple took at least two years to build this feature.

00:54:00   There's many pieces that needed to fall into place for this to happen.

00:54:06   And Dr. Dren kind of made fun of me today for saying that Apple couldn't have done multitasking

00:54:14   before because the technology wasn't ready, and he said that he had one of those old computers

00:54:22   was able to multitask.

00:54:24   I feel like it's different, you know, because the things that apps can do today are much

00:54:30   more intensive and powerful than what programs and applications could do 30 years ago or

00:54:38   whatever.

00:54:39   So I feel like the comparison doesn't hold up.

00:54:44   But yes, I'm struggling to find the words because I don't want to sound like I'm exaggerating

00:54:52   things but it's really it's a profound change if you work on the iPad.

00:54:59   When I upgraded from iOS 8 to iOS 9 and you start using the split view,

00:55:06   the slide over, the picture in picture, it's like upgrading to a new device for

00:55:10   free. I don't know if I can describe this well enough but it's like I imagine

00:55:16   when people who work on computers get a new computer this is what it feels like.

00:55:20   It's just that the iPad was so behind, you know?

00:55:24   And you could feel that Apple was behind.

00:55:27   They could do more.

00:55:28   It's like, "I want you to do more.

00:55:30   Why are you not doing more?

00:55:31   Why are you not giving me tools to work better on the iPad?"

00:55:35   And now it's coming all at once, and it's like, "I'm drunk on features."

00:55:41   So this is like, when me and you have been arguing about this stuff over the last few

00:55:45   weeks like with the earnings reports and stuff like that. I think this is the kind of thing

00:55:50   that I know I was getting towards and I think that we were meeting in the middle on this which was

00:55:55   the Apple needed to establish the iPad as a separate thing not an extension of the iPhone

00:56:02   because like that's all it's been right it's just been the iPhone but bigger like they they always

00:56:08   had the same features right they just went yeah they went along hand in hand this got this this

00:56:13   got this. There are like some really really good stuff in here. The text selection, the picture in

00:56:18   picture. Like that is, this is exactly what the iPad needs to be. I have a question for you Federico.

00:56:24   Yes. At the moment with all this split screen stuff, are any third-party apps working? No,

00:56:30   because they need to update. Right, because so it's not so, a lot of the work is done,

00:56:35   right? If they did the size classes but they still need to do some more stuff.

00:56:40   You can already, if you're into a third-party app, you can do the slide over with one of the Apple

00:56:49   apps because they are already updated and because when you do slide over you just peek at another

00:56:56   app, you don't need to do the split screen. It's not two active apps at the same time.

00:57:02   So slide over already works for Apple apps if you're into a third-party app, but all the other

00:57:09   stuff developers will need to update. And the majority of the work is already done because

00:57:14   if this is one of the points that I make in my article, if developers have been paying

00:57:18   attention and have been catching Apple's hints over the past couple of years, they need to

00:57:25   make adaptive user interfaces. And they need to, whether it's out of layout or one of those

00:57:31   other tools or technologies to make sure that your interface can be flexible, if you do

00:57:37   that it'll be a matter of minutes to make sure that you can have what Apple calls "compact"

00:57:44   and "regular" sizes for your app. So if you do that it'll be trivial to make sure your

00:57:51   app is ready for iOS 9 and for SplitView and SlideOver. What's not so easy is to make sure

00:57:58   that your app scales intelligently across different sizes. So maybe you want to move

00:58:07   interface elements around, you want to kind of change the layout a little bit, not just

00:58:12   you know, shrink in the interface, you need to pay attention to the way that your app

00:58:17   will change layout across orientations and you know, the split screen, the split view

00:58:23   has two possible sizes, then there's lightover and developers will have to be careful, you

00:58:29   know, what functionality do I want to give my users when my app is a narrow column on

00:58:35   the right side of the screen. So there's a bunch of, there's many details that developers

00:58:41   will need to pay attention to. But the majority of the work is already done and this is very

00:58:45   clever from Apple to spend the past couple of years saying, "Hey, you can have a resizable

00:58:51   simulator in Xcode that you guess what it's going to be useful for and last year you can

00:58:56   make adaptive user interfaces. There's going to be landscape support on the iPhone 6 Plus

00:59:02   with a bunch of different features. So pay attention to that. And now it kind of feels

00:59:07   like it's all coming together with this ability to show multiple apps at the same time. What

00:59:14   I'm still maybe concerned about is this going to kind of go against the principles that

00:59:24   guided the making of the iPad. So the iPad, when it came out five years ago, we as the

00:59:32   tech people again, we made a big deal and maybe became even a meme. You know, we have

00:59:38   a bunch of memes, like Apple can do web services and Google is getting better at design, and

00:59:43   sometimes they're true, sometimes they're not, but they're memes, and they spread quickly.

00:59:47   And one of those memes was the iPad is the app that you use at that time. So the iPad

00:59:53   is a book, if you use iBooks. The iPad is a newspaper, it's a toy, it's the web in your

00:59:59   hands. We even made a show about this. So the iPad was an object, you know, because

01:00:06   it was one app at a time. What you see is really what you get. And the skeuomorphic

01:00:12   interface kind of helped in this regard because it established a connection between the digital

01:00:17   interface and the fact that you were holding an object. And that was kind of one of the

01:00:23   essential characteristics of the iPad. Now we've moved past the skeuomorphic

01:00:31   interfaces where we have apps that are more neutral or maybe they are visual in

01:00:38   a different way, you know? They use color, they use icons, they don't use textures,

01:00:43   they don't look like objects. And now Apple is saying "We want you to use the

01:00:49   iPad, not like an appliance, not like a utility, but like a computer. But it's different. It's

01:00:58   like a computer, but it doesn't have all that baggage from the computer era. So I predict

01:01:05   that in the next few months you're going to hear a lot of people saying Apple wanted to

01:01:08   do the post PC kind of new age stuff and now they've gone back to making the iPad like

01:01:16   a PC. But that's not really the point. Because this is exactly what iOS should be doing.

01:01:26   Let me use a bunch of apps at the same time and make sure their interfaces can be resizable,

01:01:33   they can be fluid, they can be scalable, they can adapt to my orientation, to my device,

01:01:40   and it can run on a bunch of different screen sizes. People are going to say, "This is not

01:01:46   IOS like, they haven't been paying attention to where IOS is going.

01:01:50   And this is not new, this is stuff from the past two years at least.

01:01:54   That said, is this gonna be against the nature of the iPad?

01:02:02   I guess in a way you do lose the elegance of having a single app on screen at the same

01:02:08   time.

01:02:09   But that's why it's important to note that this is not the default option.

01:02:13   When you boot up a Mac and you open an app on your Mac, it opens as a window.

01:02:20   Because you know, on a desktop computer, you have Windows.

01:02:24   When you open an app on the iPad, it's still gonna open in full screen mode.

01:02:28   And you're still gonna be able to see by default one app at a time.

01:02:30   And in fact, I predict that most people will never discover or use the split screen stuff

01:02:36   on the iPad.

01:02:37   This is made for people who wanna do more.

01:02:40   And the fact that it's not enabled by default, that they're not saying "hey, now you always

01:02:47   need to use two apps at the same time", that's important to remember that iOS is still primarily

01:02:55   a one-app-at-a-time kind of OS.

01:02:58   And whether it's going to be difficult to use or not, that's a bit more tricky to discuss.

01:03:07   Because when you put more stuff on screen, it becomes more difficult.

01:03:12   And that's just, you know, it just happens.

01:03:15   It's just the way it is.

01:03:17   If you have to deal with a bunch of apps at the same time, you're going to have to deal

01:03:21   with a bunch of more complexities at the same time.

01:03:24   But at what point does the dogma of saying "we're not doing two apps at the same time"

01:03:32   At what point does an idea, an idea that you need to respect, because that's the way the

01:03:39   iPad is, at what point does that go against your users?

01:03:47   And the people who want to work from an iPad, you're not doing them a good service by respecting

01:03:56   the ideology of the iPad.

01:03:59   You're going against them.

01:04:00   And so by enabling users, power users, because this is stuff meant for power users, there's

01:04:06   no denying about this, by enabling people to say "Hey, I know that it's gonna be maybe

01:04:13   a little more difficult to deal with because it's two apps at the same time, and I know

01:04:18   that it's gonna be maybe a little more ugly because you get all these panels flying around

01:04:23   and it's not as beautiful as having a single app at the same time, just let me do this

01:04:27   because I need to have my notepad when I'm browsing the web.

01:04:31   And I need to have my Twitter client

01:04:33   when I'm watching a movie because I'm dumb

01:04:36   and I wanna make bad jokes on Twitter.

01:04:38   And so I'm happy, I'm not, I mean,

01:04:43   I'm happy about the feature,

01:04:44   but what I'm most happy about is that,

01:04:48   that Apple is not stuck in the past

01:04:50   when it comes to the iPad.

01:04:52   They're not saying, hey, because Steve Jobs

01:04:54   wanted the iPad to be the object that you hold,

01:04:56   we're never gonna do two apps at the same time.

01:04:59   That's what makes me happy is that they're listening,

01:05:03   and they're doing things that maybe five years ago

01:05:05   would have been unimaginable,

01:05:06   because we were all saying, we were all repeating the meme.

01:05:09   We were saying the iPad is the object that you hold.

01:05:12   And now they're not doing that, they're offering an option.

01:05:14   And having options, I feel like it's important.

01:05:17   When it comes to letting people work easily,

01:05:21   you gotta give them options.

01:05:23   And if the option, in this case multitasking,

01:05:27   if the option is based on a good technology,

01:05:32   a good foundation, a developer ecosystem

01:05:34   that can adopt this feature quickly,

01:05:36   then I think you have a home run.

01:05:39   - Yeah, absolutely.

01:05:43   For someone who does most of their work on the Mac

01:05:47   and the iPad has been sort of just a side device

01:05:52   really since day one, you know, looking at what they're adding here is both exciting

01:05:58   from the point of view that they're breaking feature parity between the iPhone and iPad

01:06:04   saying hey the iPad can do more, it's more powerful, it's got a bigger screen, let's

01:06:08   do more with that. That's exciting. But they really address like the, what I would consider

01:06:14   the most common, my most common complaints, things like text entry being easier now with

01:06:19   the trackpad as a keyboard.

01:06:21   Being able to, exactly like you said,

01:06:23   I'm surfing the web and I need to take notes.

01:06:27   I have an iPad Air 2 so I can do true split screen apps

01:06:31   and not just the little slide over guy.

01:06:33   That sort of stuff, yes it complicates the iPad,

01:06:38   but I feel like the choices they've made of what to add

01:06:41   covers so much ground.

01:06:44   The things that they added were very

01:06:48   carefully chosen and I think very wisely chosen.

01:06:53   And so I think it's not features for features sake,

01:06:55   but it's hey, what types of things can we do

01:06:58   to make this more powerful and more flexible for people

01:07:01   while still being an iPad?

01:07:04   And I think they've, and I haven't used it,

01:07:07   but it feels like watching their presentations

01:07:10   and looking at their website,

01:07:11   that they've struck a balance there.

01:07:13   And I think that's good.

01:07:15   - I have a few doubts.

01:07:18   right now about the implementation and the future of all this.

01:07:24   When it comes to how it works, the biggest missing point is the lack of a drag and drop.

01:07:36   At least right now, it doesn't seem to me like you can pick a bunch of items from an

01:07:41   app and just slide them over into a second app.

01:07:45   And I feel like, again, I don't know if this will be possible, I don't think it will be,

01:07:50   at least in this first version, but it seems to me like it's an obvious next step for the

01:07:56   feature, especially considering the feel of touching stuff on iOS.

01:08:02   You touch your photos, you pinch your photos and zoom in, like you manipulate content,

01:08:08   and being able to drag and drop things between apps seems like an obvious next addition to

01:08:15   this technology. The other question is, it seems to me like this will make even more

01:08:25   sense on a bigger iPad. But I don't want to talk about the rumored iPad Pro, which Apple

01:08:33   is apparently about to release later this year. The Split View feature will likely be

01:08:40   enabled on future iPads of course, but right now Split View is only on the iPad Air 2.

01:08:47   My impression is that a lot of people still own older iPads, whether it's the iPad 2,

01:08:55   which doesn't want to die, or iPad Minis, or the first iPad Air, those iPads are only

01:09:02   gonna get slayed over. So I wonder, will this be a problem for the iPad Air?

01:09:10   problem, whether it's for developers because they can say "Hey, we don't really want to

01:09:16   put a lot of thought into doing split views because people don't care so we'll just ship

01:09:23   a basic split view and that's it" or maybe users, the majority of users won't know about

01:09:30   split view and maybe I'm overthinking this because eventually people will upgrade to

01:09:35   a future iPad and everything will be good and people on the iPad R2 right now can be

01:09:39   like beta testers for the future. I mean there's always tension when you

01:09:45   add a software feature that has a hardware requirement and I think the

01:09:49   tension feels greater right now because Apple has left so many old iPads for

01:09:55   sale. You know that you can still, it'd be one thing like yeah there's a lot of iPad 2s

01:09:59   running around or a lot of iPad 3s but you can still go buy those devices or

01:10:03   their equivalents in the mini family. Like it's not just that

01:10:08   There's a lot of them out there still so Apple still selling them you can go down the store to the store and buy one

01:10:12   And that I think is why this feels so bad

01:10:14   Because it's like on one hand Apple's trying to push the platform forward and the other hand at Apple is sort of not holding it

01:10:21   back, but you know

01:10:23   They're not helping their their adoption rate by selling lower cost

01:10:28   Older devices and so my guess is that this year?

01:10:34   We're gonna see that line tighten up a little bit and not be so broad as far as technology

01:10:38   He's you know, I was nine will support everything I would say does and you know, they're not dropping anything there

01:10:44   but they do have these other features that are reserved for the air - and I

01:10:47   Mean clearly like you said it's a transition right at some point

01:10:51   Everyone have a new iPad and this will be great. But for now it feels

01:10:54   like if I were to a developer

01:10:57   Looking at what I could add

01:10:58   I think split like true the true split screen for the iPad air 2 would not be the top of my list this summer

01:11:05   Well, yeah, that's my concern maybe eventually developers will will you know

01:11:12   I guess that Apple is saying to developers like

01:11:15   in the documentation every app should support slide over and split view and

01:11:20   I bet that developers will you know, they will add support for slider and split view. It's just that I I

01:11:28   I'm afraid they won't put a lot of care or thought into this. They'll just say, "Yeah, whatever,

01:11:33   just resize and move those two icons to the bottom and call it a day." I want developers to

01:11:42   pay close attention to how this stuff works, but right now it's hard to tell because we don't have

01:11:50   any example of third-party apps, so we'll see. Kind of like a closing thought that I had,

01:11:58   if you allow me, Steven. I don't know where Myke is, if he's just listening, and maybe if he's

01:12:05   thinking about the Android phone. >> He just got in the bed with my iPad Air 2 and the Goats.

01:12:09   >> Yeah. >> Snuggling with it.

01:12:11   >> So let me have the closing thought. >> Okay.

01:12:14   >> I don't think Apple could have done this before. I truly believe that they have spent two years

01:12:25   building up to this with the frameworks, the API.

01:12:29   Even if you look at stuff like dynamic text,

01:12:33   to be able to change text quickly,

01:12:36   have the interface adapted to the text size,

01:12:39   that's going to be essential for slide-over and split views.

01:12:43   When your app changes size,

01:12:45   you need to change the fonts,

01:12:46   you need to still maintain readable content.

01:12:50   That's another piece of technology that was introduced,

01:12:53   dynamic type with iOS 7. And I really believe that this wouldn't be possible had Apple redesigned iOS from the ground up.

01:13:05   Just imagine, and I know there's a lot of people who still believe that the iOS 6 design, the skeuomorphic design, was superior to what we have today.

01:13:15   And I agree that sometimes it's better to have a drop shadow or to have borders around buttons to...

01:13:22   You know, it's okay to make interfaces not all white and, you know, thin typefaces.

01:13:32   And Apple is kind of dialing back on that with LCAP and iOS 9. But I believe that

01:13:41   With a skeuomorphic design, this wouldn't work.

01:13:44   And it would actually be kind of ugly to look at.

01:13:48   Just imagine having leather on one side of the screen

01:13:53   and brushed metal on the other.

01:13:56   With realistic textures and interfaces,

01:14:00   it would be kind of weird.

01:14:01   It wouldn't feel like multitasking.

01:14:03   It would feel like rearranging your desk

01:14:06   with all these objects on the screen.

01:14:08   So I feel like the interface of iOS 7 and kind of the...

01:14:13   Two years ago, we said a lot,

01:14:16   Apple is laying a new foundation

01:14:19   and Apple is building a new structure.

01:14:21   And those kind of felt like buzzwords, you know?

01:14:24   Because they look great in press releases,

01:14:27   they look great on websites.

01:14:28   When you say, well, laying the groundwork,

01:14:30   well, building a foundation,

01:14:31   this is a new design structure, you know,

01:14:34   especially when Johnny Ives says that

01:14:36   with a British accent, it sounds really great.

01:14:39   But it's also true, you know,

01:14:41   because they're really been laying the groundwork.

01:14:43   And when you look at these apps

01:14:45   with this new design language,

01:14:47   and the way that they blend together

01:14:49   on the screen multitasking,

01:14:51   I feel like it was the right call two years ago

01:14:54   to kind of say, we want to reset the design language

01:14:58   because we can have a roadmap, we're not telling you yet.

01:15:02   And so we're giving you a new design,

01:15:04   We're giving developers gradually new technologies to build upon,

01:15:09   like dynamic type, adaptive UIs,

01:15:11   and then we come up with iPad multitasking.

01:15:14   And that's exactly as John Gruber once wrote,

01:15:19   that's how Apple rolls.

01:15:21   They do this kind of stuff behind the scenes,

01:15:24   and then one day you say,

01:15:26   "Oh, iPad has multitasking," but it's not one day.

01:15:29   It's like the past two years,

01:15:31   they have spent building up to this.

01:15:33   And so that's why today in the article I wrote, this wouldn't have been possible before because

01:15:40   it's not just, let me flip a switch and have two windows on the screen.

01:15:45   It's not like that.

01:15:46   It's people building technologies and features and a developer ecosystem adapting to those

01:15:51   features at scale for two years.

01:15:55   And now you can do this.

01:15:57   It's different and you got to pay attention.

01:16:01   So Federico, I'm gonna buy an iPad while I'm here.

01:16:03   I'm being serious, I'm gonna buy an Air 2.

01:16:08   Really?

01:16:09   Yeah.

01:16:10   I'm happy for you, we can split view together.

01:16:13   That's the level I've ever really wanted.

01:16:15   Look at that, I've been lusting after a MacBook, right?

01:16:17   Like something small and light and really portable to travel with.

01:16:21   And I saw what they were doing on stage, all the text selection stuff and all the split view stuff.

01:16:26   stuff and I can see how this could really fit into my work life for being

01:16:31   productive and I'm interested in trying it out and so I'm gonna before I leave

01:16:36   here I'm gonna get the air 2 and put the beta on it and play around I'm excited

01:16:41   to try it could be to start something very beautiful. I'm happy for your iPad

01:16:47   Myke. Now in the interest of time I want to cut the watch we'll talk about

01:16:53   about that maybe next week because we need to talk about music.

01:16:56   Okay, so can I just say up front what I think and then you will criticize me for the next

01:17:01   15 minutes?

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01:18:52   Federico, I know you have an open statement, but I have one first.

01:18:55   - Okay. - I'm jumping in right now, okay?

01:18:58   Because I feel like I know how you're going to feel about this.

01:19:02   So I want to make something very clear about how I feel about Apple Music up front.

01:19:06   This is the service that I want.

01:19:09   It's got the best of Beats.

01:19:12   It looks like it's got the best of Spotify.

01:19:14   If all of the music is there that I'm going to want, which I expect it will be, this is

01:19:18   the service that I've been looking for.

01:19:20   It's going to be native on the platform, it's going to work great.

01:19:22   I'm really excited about Beats 1.

01:19:24   I'm looking forward to hearing a radio station made in 2015 and what that sounds like.

01:19:31   Human curation is exactly what I want.

01:19:34   Having everything there and just paying a good fee, like probably $9.99 a month in the

01:19:39   UK as well, I'm really happy with that.

01:19:42   I think the problem that Apple faced,

01:19:45   and this is definitely something that people here

01:19:48   have been talking about a lot,

01:19:49   it seems to be a consensus feeling,

01:19:52   is that the presentation was lacking.

01:19:56   It seemed to be quite mismatched with the rest of it.

01:19:58   The pacing was very different.

01:20:00   They were bringing in people

01:20:01   who didn't seem to be extremely well-prepared onto stage

01:20:05   to give their presentations.

01:20:07   The demos weren't as tight.

01:20:09   They didn't show the features that they wanted to do.

01:20:11   The service itself looks amazing, but I feel,

01:20:15   and I know a bunch of people that I've spoken to as well feel,

01:20:18   that Apple really just didn't do a very good job of selling it.

01:20:22   And this is probably because, I mean,

01:20:25   that people are saying that Apple TV was meant to be there

01:20:27   and stuff like that, I think that this might have been

01:20:29   thrown together a little bit too last minute for them,

01:20:32   and they weren't able to do it properly.

01:20:33   That is my opening statement.

01:20:35   I'm very excited about Apple Music,

01:20:37   but I think the keynote presentation was lacking.

01:20:39   Federica.

01:20:42   My general thought is that people need to chill more.

01:20:48   And what I really don't understand is why would your judgement of a new service, whether

01:20:55   it's from Apple or Google, anyone, be influenced by the presentation?

01:21:02   Because that's how they're showing it to you.

01:21:04   That's the point of the presentation is to...

01:21:06   Why would you say this service is going to fail based on the presentation?

01:21:10   Who is saying that?

01:21:11   Mashable.

01:21:12   Okay.

01:21:13   There's an article that...

01:21:14   I can give you the names.

01:21:17   Mashable has an article saying that Apple Music has already failed and won't beat Spotify.

01:21:25   Ben Thompson is saying that Apple has lost focus with the Apple Music presentation and app.

01:21:33   And Dr. Drang is saying that the presentation was so bad that it's a sign, you know, of

01:21:38   Apple being sloppy and that kind of stuff.

01:21:40   So I think so.

01:21:41   And I have not read I've read Dr. Drang's I've never the other two.

01:21:46   I think I think the dividing line.

01:21:49   I mean, I've read about this to everyone did is that you have an opportunity to to announce

01:21:58   a product.

01:21:59   And I think that they didn't do a great job at that.

01:22:02   and I called out my article that does not mean you cannot tie a bad

01:22:11   presentation to a bad product. I think the product is probably fine.

01:22:15   Is it bad because of the dancing? Because of the songs?

01:22:17   No, I think fundamentally Apple failed to explain in a concise way what Apple

01:22:23   music is.

01:22:24   No, I disagree.

01:22:26   Have you watched it?

01:22:28   Yes, twice!

01:22:30   They they they start to go down the road of like they say, you know, it's there's this beats one radio thing

01:22:35   They're streaming. They don't really get into what's available to stream and and what that looks like

01:22:41   Yes, and then they talked and then they talked about connect. So there are the three things there

01:22:45   But yeah, but you have to watch it and take notes to understand it

01:22:50   It was not no no you think about think about all of the best applicants. We've covered many of them on our show

01:22:56   Yeah, it's you can walk away and you can remember what they talked about clearly

01:23:00   and I think that Apple just muddied the waters by too many demos and having people on stage who just

01:23:05   I'm gonna say Drake. I

01:23:08   Didn't understand what he said, but I do understand why you what I mean

01:23:13   I can understood what he was saying, but you know, he says he's a celebrity. He's a rapper

01:23:17   He's not a tech presenter and I will say Jimmy

01:23:20   It's not a you know a good

01:23:24   presentation guides, his first Apple keynote, I think. So it was kind of loud, you know,

01:23:29   it kind of, it didn't get the joke, it didn't get what people were laughing at, the three

01:23:35   things, he kind of looked at the slide, that was kind of awkward. And I would say, yeah,

01:23:40   the presentation could have been, you know, better, or maybe there could have been fewer

01:23:46   songs. But from this, to say, this was a mess, that's a...

01:23:53   Yeah, I think you and I are saying basically the same thing.

01:23:56   I do not think that a bad presentation means the product is a mess.

01:23:59   I think the product is fine, but I don't, I don't, I think they failed with the objective of making it a good case for that.

01:24:06   Um, and yeah, I agree.

01:24:08   Like the most memorable thing about Drake's experience on stage was his cool Apple jacket, which I really want someone to buy for me.

01:24:15   But, um, but I disagree on being confused by what Apple Music is after the first time I watched the keynote.

01:24:22   I had a pretty good idea.

01:24:24   you might understand it, right? You might have got it. I didn't. I'm not special. But I didn't get it.

01:24:30   You're very special. Like you are very special, but like the thing is like you may have not been

01:24:35   confused and that's fine, but I was confused. Like what happens with... because I didn't know until

01:24:41   I went and looked on the website like do I... is it like hyunes match and that I can upload my music?

01:24:46   Like how does that part work? And like what I didn't understand is how like some of the radio

01:24:51   stations that they're showing working because they're talking about human curation but then

01:24:55   and they have beats one but then there's these other ones and I it's like it was like there was

01:24:58   a lot of stuff there and I think fundamentally if they if like the drake piece was taken out

01:25:05   and eddy q was there to drive the whole thing it would have been a lot better because I think

01:25:10   a lot of people and I put myself included I was getting a little bit like deluded about what was

01:25:17   going on because of some of the stranger parts of the presentation. So I think I criticized

01:25:22   EdiQ harder than I normally would because I was in a bad frame of mind when I was watching it.

01:25:27   I think that is the key part.

01:25:29   Let me go through two points. The first point is that those two things you mentioned, how

01:25:35   the upload stuff works, how the radio stations work, that's the details. And you always end up

01:25:43   reading on the on the kbase for that stuff because even when they announced

01:25:47   iTunes match they didn't give you the details for the icons what they mean

01:25:52   they you needed to go read on the documentation that's just it's really

01:25:56   different from understanding how many songs are on their streaming service the

01:25:59   only metric anyone cares about a streaming service they can answer that

01:26:03   just seems problematic that's that's the only that's the only point that I would

01:26:07   say it needs to be clear but people are saying yeah they didn't say how

01:26:12   uploading songs work, that didn't say this, that didn't say that, and it seems to me at least

01:26:17   that a lot of people are obsessing over details that eventually Apple will give in the documentation

01:26:22   because it's always been this way and because they can't give every single detail on stage

01:26:28   because that would be exactly what people don't want, a presentation that is too long and filled with details

01:26:33   so I feel like it's always been this way and presentations have always gone bad

01:26:39   even with Steve Jobs, there were awkward moments.

01:26:42   And yes, Steve Jobs was a much better seller

01:26:45   and presentation guru on stage.

01:26:49   But this stuff happens, you know,

01:26:51   to have the rambling guest who just goes on and on

01:26:54   and you don't know what he's saying.

01:26:56   We had the stuff even with the iPhone introduction.

01:26:59   We had the stuff even with the iPad introduction.

01:27:01   - Yeah, do you remember how bad the AT&T procedure was?

01:27:04   - Yes, exactly.

01:27:05   - They had index cards.

01:27:06   - It's not new.

01:27:07   This is what I'm not following.

01:27:08   It's not new, it always happens.

01:27:10   But why do you need to have a guest?

01:27:13   Because you need to show that you have support from people who other normal people know.

01:27:20   People know Drake.

01:27:21   And to say, "Yeah, you know, Drake was at the Apple event?"

01:27:23   That matters for people.

01:27:25   - No, I don't mind that Drake was there.

01:27:28   But he didn't do the job that he was brought on to do.

01:27:30   Because they were like, "And we want to talk about Connect, here's Drake."

01:27:34   And then he came out and told his story.

01:27:35   I think he just didn't really know why he was there.

01:27:38   and he just told a story which is an interesting story but if I don't think it was the the

01:27:43   intention of bringing him on would you disagree with that? Like I think he didn't do a good job of

01:27:49   being there but I like that he was there. I think that's always the case with Apple guests I think.

01:27:55   They're just not as they're not as polished are they? Yeah but that's always this way it always

01:28:00   happens. Whether it's from game developers, singers, bands, I mean do you remember the

01:28:08   Bono thing with U2 last year and finger touch? That was possibly more awkward than Drake.

01:28:15   I think you're making a good point that there are, that like awkward parts of the presentations

01:28:20   are not new. I think that that is making, I think you are making a good point now.

01:28:23   But then there's the people who are saying the ad-e-cue, the dancing, the songs, and that part

01:28:30   I really really don't get because it seems to me like it was really having fun and yes

01:28:36   is kind of sloppy and you know is we make fun of the t-shirt the shirts that he wears

01:28:44   but it's very cute he was having fun with songs and it's music you know and I don't

01:28:50   get it's tamed you know I think that the opinion that a lot of people have is like it was long

01:28:55   and I mean I know that like so a lot of people are like we're watching it in a room of a

01:28:58   bunch of other people right and everybody starts to get a bit restless

01:29:03   and I think that that is that is what's happening here like people have seen it

01:29:06   they were getting restless like people wanted to go to the bathroom I did it's

01:29:10   like two and a half hours or whatever and and and EddyQ was like let's play another song

01:29:13   how about another song so I think that that was it right like I'm getting

01:29:17   restless so it's tainting my opinion about what was going on.

01:29:20   Yeah but let's not make the bathroom affect your opinion.

01:29:24   But it did though man.

01:29:26   I understand why.

01:29:28   >> He was doubled over. It was all very, very true.

01:29:31   >> I can understand. Here's a serious point.

01:29:34   Do you even realize by the way how

01:29:36   ridiculous that we're talking about

01:29:38   Drake and jackets and attitude dancing?

01:29:40   This is not the main point. Let's talk about what matters.

01:29:43   Why did they introduce this service at a developers conference?

01:29:46   I feel like the timing,

01:29:48   it's very clear to me.

01:29:51   It's launching at the end of June.

01:29:54   There's going to be three months of free trial.

01:29:59   When those three months are up, it's the end of September, which means people are going

01:30:04   to buy new iPhones, which means people are going to go to the Apple Store, and they're

01:30:09   going to also see headphones and that kind of stuff.

01:30:13   And it feels to me like the timing of the introduction, the three months of free trial,

01:30:18   It kind of lines up nicely with the September timeframe that Apple usually employs to launch

01:30:26   new iPhone stuff.

01:30:28   And I feel like that could be...

01:30:31   Like they could really use that to sell Apple Music in a new way.

01:30:36   Like bundling maybe Apple Music with a new iPhone, I don't know.

01:30:40   But I feel like the timing is interesting.

01:30:42   And maybe when people say they should have had a separate event.

01:30:47   My impression is that they needed to have Apple Music launch now, to have something

01:30:52   ready when those three months are up.

01:30:55   Yeah, that's good.

01:30:57   I hadn't thought of that at the time.

01:30:59   Because three months is weird, right?

01:31:01   One month, that three months takes you to that point, which I think is probably a good

01:31:07   point.

01:31:08   Yeah, and I think to the iPhone, while it's a very important part of Apple's business,

01:31:14   they have been pairing other things with it,

01:31:17   you know, during keynotes, right?

01:31:18   Like the September event,

01:31:19   the iPhone was done in like 12 minutes

01:31:21   and then it was all, you know,

01:31:23   Apple Pay and Apple Watch stuff.

01:31:25   And so if they also have the watch to contend with

01:31:28   in the fall, you know, in that September timeframe,

01:31:31   like it does kind of make sense

01:31:32   to tell a cohesive story there.

01:31:34   And I just, I love,

01:31:36   absolutely love the video they showed

01:31:38   of the sort of the history of listening to music.

01:31:40   So they had people with record players,

01:31:42   Casey List was in there,

01:31:44   And then they had, you know, uh, eight tracks, uh, with dr.

01:31:48   Drang and tape players and CD players and iPods.

01:31:51   And there was like an iMac G4, which made me happy.

01:31:54   Um, I really, I really liked that, that video and, you know, when you go back and

01:32:03   look at when Apple introduced iTunes, you know, that was sort of the introduction of

01:32:07   like the thought that, that Apple as an entity loves music and Apple as a group

01:32:12   of individuals loves music and they were clearly are continuing to beat that drum

01:32:17   today of, you know, we're doing this because this is an area of not only

01:32:22   technology, but an area of life that we care about. And, you know, maybe that's

01:32:27   why I think you got carried away playing playing a bunch of songs. But I think

01:32:32   you're I think you're right that the 90 days does get them into the fall. But I

01:32:38   I think too, I think that's enough time where like,

01:32:41   if you use something for 90 days,

01:32:44   like you're gonna pay for it, right?

01:32:45   Like as well, well beyond the line

01:32:49   of something becoming a habit,

01:32:51   especially in like media consumption.

01:32:53   - You know what's nice that it's the summer

01:32:56   and people, at least based on my Italian perspective,

01:33:01   people go out more, people go on vacation,

01:33:05   they listen to music more, they have parties,

01:33:07   They listen to music, they share music more in the summer, and I feel like it's good timing

01:33:16   to be able to use this new music app for free in the summer, and then eventually you'll

01:33:21   be so hooked to the service that when September comes you'll be like "Yeah, of course I want

01:33:25   to pay".

01:33:27   That seems to me like it's nice timing, and this is why Apple... they could have said

01:33:32   We don't introduce Apple Music at WWDC or we do introduce Apple Music and we'll upset

01:33:38   some people and we will have this presentation that is not as polished as the other stuff,

01:33:44   but whatever, because at the end of the day hopefully people will look at the service

01:33:48   not the presentation.

01:33:49   And that what really gets under my skin is having an opinion based on Etiquette Dancing

01:33:55   and Drake, you know, that stuff is important because we tech people, we obsess over the

01:34:02   fine art of Apple keynotes because they have their own history and facts and trivia and

01:34:08   that's important but we should not lose the perspective of the actual product.

01:34:15   One last point that I wanted to kind of talk with you guys.

01:34:19   Beats 1 and the international rollout of Apple Music with Beats 1 as the radio.

01:34:26   I feel like having a global channel live 24/7 shared with people in over 100 countries,

01:34:35   I find that message a very positive message to say we want to give people from every corner

01:34:46   of the world to listen to the same stuff, if they want to, to listen to the same stuff

01:34:53   live also.

01:34:55   And I find that idea very powerful, to have a kid in Australia and a guy in Italy and,

01:35:03   you know, a family in China listen to the same stuff.

01:35:09   That to me, it's very romantic as an image, but it's also very powerful as a message for

01:35:14   digital product?

01:35:18   I'm very surprised about the amount of countries that are going to be available to get this

01:35:22   on day one.

01:35:26   Because we were worrying that it wouldn't even see outside of the US this year, you

01:35:30   know?

01:35:31   100 countries is a very lofty goal.

01:35:34   And I'm very interested in Beats 1.

01:35:37   We spoke about Zane Lowe on the show when Apple hired him from Radio 1.

01:35:42   I spoke about how he's very influential and I see him as a somebody who's tastes music that I like and

01:35:48   to have a radio station like a new a radio station seems so

01:35:53   Peculiar today with the way that we listen to music, you know

01:35:57   People choose their music and they did to choose what like in this dream and so the curated playlist makes sense

01:36:02   Right because you're having some hand in that but but beats one you will tune in and whatever they are playing

01:36:07   That's what you're gonna right. I think that adds to sort of the romantic idea. Yeah, it does

01:36:11   That's old school.

01:36:13   - Yeah, because you know, there's a lot to be said

01:36:16   for the world that we live in where, you know,

01:36:18   we can watch the news we wanna watch,

01:36:20   and we can follow the people on Twitter we wanna follow,

01:36:23   and we can listen to the music we wanna listen to.

01:36:25   And not only does that limit what we can discover,

01:36:29   but it sort of, you know,

01:36:30   especially to get into more serious things than music,

01:36:32   right, like if all I do is watch news

01:36:33   that aligns with my political views,

01:36:35   then I'm not seeing,

01:36:36   I'm seeing the world only through my lens.

01:36:38   And so from an exploration standpoint, it's great.

01:36:42   But there is something about it,

01:36:43   I totally agree with you guys,

01:36:45   that goes back to a time where all that junk didn't exist.

01:36:49   And you played with the guy,

01:36:51   you listened to what the guy played.

01:36:53   And I think it's great.

01:36:54   I do think that worldwide radio station,

01:36:58   it makes the world feel small,

01:37:02   and it's sort of, but really big at the same time,

01:37:04   knowing that I could be listening to something.

01:37:06   That's a great way to put it.

01:37:09   - You know, that someone in God knows where

01:37:12   is listening to as well,

01:37:13   and we're both tapping our foot to it.

01:37:14   Like, that sort of gives me goosebumps

01:37:17   in a way that technology normally doesn't do.

01:37:19   And so I think, again, I think that's like

01:37:21   the primary thing Apple's getting to.

01:37:23   Like, we love music.

01:37:24   We love it so much, we're gonna build a giant radio station

01:37:27   that everyone can listen to.

01:37:28   I think that's really, really exciting.

01:37:30   - Oh my God, Federico.

01:37:31   I think we might have poured him away from the iPod Classic.

01:37:34   Yeah, I mean, are you listening to the same Steven that I'm listening to?

01:37:39   I know.

01:37:39   It's like, it's not the same guy anymore.

01:37:41   Oh, don't worry.

01:37:41   They'll play lots of music I don't like.

01:37:43   So, yeah.

01:37:43   But the last point we've been saying for years that Apple is now a camera company,

01:37:50   because they, they, they, they make the most popular camera in the world.

01:37:55   Yeah.

01:37:56   And with Beats 1 and Apple Music, they've been a music company before, but I feel

01:38:00   like their plans are much bigger and I think in a few years we'll say Apple is an audio company.

01:38:07   And that's just crazy. I see where you're going with that, right? If you think when me and you,

01:38:13   Federico, started getting into Apple, Apple were the music company, right? They were the iPod,

01:38:18   they were the music company. But today, Mindshare is with Spotify, right? Irrespective of what the

01:38:26   numbers are people think like you have people today they think music they think

01:38:31   Spotify right there is a very very strong chance that this time next year

01:38:37   it's back to Apple again I think so I think those guys I mean I think Spotify

01:38:43   will fare the best out of them I think RDO is done like I did yeah I think

01:38:49   you're right and I think like it's sort of that that two-prong approach of

01:38:53   having the radio and having the streaming and having your local stuff and

01:38:57   Hey, I can go to this and I can see like my favorite band posting pictures from the road, you know

01:39:02   via the Connect tab and

01:39:04   What they've done is they haven't created an app or a service

01:39:07   They've created an experience and that that's really what Apple is at the heart of it

01:39:11   Apple is an experienced company and what they've done is taken

01:39:15   Playing music or something. They know very well right like for years like even they've been that music company

01:39:20   But even then it was I'm buying or downloading music and I'm listening to it. There's not a lot of connection

01:39:25   It's a very one-way relationship people want more than that now

01:39:28   And so what they're they're giving people multiple channels to interact to interact their music their music and the artists that they love

01:39:36   And I think it's gonna be hugely successful. I totally agree Myke. I think in a year we sit down to revisit this

01:39:42   You know was the first year of Apple music look like I think there'll be a lot of thumbs up emoji flying around

01:39:49   And you know, it's interesting to see that Spotify is bragging about machine learning and that

01:39:57   Algorithms that they use very advanced very fascinating. Did you see Apple the RDO's?

01:40:02   comment, yeah

01:40:04   Welcome Apple seriously, which is then mimicking Apple's letter to IBM when IBM launched the original PC

01:40:12   I don't know if you guys

01:40:14   Nope, we're aware of that. I was over this time Steven. Yes. Yes

01:40:19   All computer reference to one of you guys

01:40:22   Yeah

01:40:25   There is always an inherent danger

01:40:27   when your app

01:40:30   When the competition free app is first party right like music is going to be

01:40:35   Built in in the dock on every iPhone shipped like that's really hard to overcome if you're Spotify or audio or somebody else

01:40:44   And you look at sales look at podcast clients. There's a built-in Apple one a lot of people use that

01:40:49   I know from our metrics a lot of people use that app. I know a lot of people use third-party apps as well

01:40:53   But I feel like in music especially I think they'll be people who like oh, this is great. This is from Apple like you know

01:40:59   You know I listened I did iTunes and iPods in college and people may not look at iTunes finally

01:41:06   But I think everybody remembers their iPod carrying days fondly and I remember you know that romantic idea about Beats one

01:41:12   I have that about carrying an iPod around in college listening to music in between classes having my entire library in my bag

01:41:19   And I think people will connect with that. I think that that those third-party guys are in for a fight

01:41:25   Yeah, I can't wait. I'm really excited for it man. I'm looking forward to next month

01:41:30   I'm gonna get Apple music and Apple pay like it's gonna be it's all coming up Myke in July. Let me tell you

01:41:35   All right

01:41:38   Go on Federica. No, I was I just wanted to conclude that

01:41:41   Spotify does machine learning. I remember a few months ago there was this blog post from a Spotify engineer about the system they created to have a computer like robots listen to music for them and to basically use a neural network, a deep learning network to understand what music is like.

01:42:05   Apple, we hired a bunch of people and we're gonna do a radio program. I just

01:42:12   find it fascinating to have these two different perspectives. I don't know, it

01:42:18   will be, it's gonna be an interesting year for Apple because they're doing new

01:42:22   things and new things in this, you know, in this kind of world that changes

01:42:30   quickly but that also has very long-standing ideas and preconceptions. New things are exciting

01:42:40   and I think the recurring theme of WWDC this year is that Apple is improving existing stuff

01:42:49   and that's good but they're also trying new things and they are expanding beyond technology.

01:42:57   That's even more clear this year. And that to me is exciting. We will check back, I guess next year,

01:43:07   and we'll see how it goes, especially for Apple Music.

01:43:10   Yeah. So I know it's available for Myke and I. Is it available in Italy on day one?

01:43:15   Apple Music?

01:43:17   Yeah.

01:43:18   I think so. I want to hope that we're in the list of 100 countries. I saw the Italian webpage.

01:43:24   You've got it right.

01:43:26   Well, let's not talk about Italy.

01:43:30   But yeah, I saw the Italian webpage a few days ago, so I would say yes, we are.

01:43:35   And there's an Italian Apple Music account on Twitter, I think, so I would...

01:43:41   There's a 60% chance we're gonna be in...

01:43:46   Yes, there's Apple Music in Italy.

01:43:49   I'm looking at the website.

01:43:50   Real-time follow-up.

01:43:51   It says tutti in sieme, which means all together.

01:43:54   Really nice.

01:43:55   together, we're holding our hands waiting for Apple Music.

01:43:59   (laughing)

01:44:00   - Seems like a good place to start.

01:44:02   On that note, I wanna thank our sponsors this week

01:44:05   for helping us out, our good friends over at the Omni Group

01:44:08   of OmniFocus, Field Notes, and igloo.

01:44:11   If you wanna find us online, you can catch our show notes

01:44:13   today over at relay.fm/connected/43.

01:44:17   If you wanna find all the Federico's fantastic coverage,

01:44:19   you can go to maxstories.net, he's working like a champ

01:44:22   over there and you can find him on Twitter,

01:44:24   is at Vitii, V-I-T-I-C-C-I Federico, thank you for bringing so much work and knowledge

01:44:29   to today's show, I really appreciate it.

01:44:31   Of course.

01:44:32   And if you want to find Mr. Steven Hackett, I mean he's writing about jackets or something

01:44:36   over at 512pixels.net and he is @ismh on Twitter and I am @imike, I-M-Y-K-E. There's a bunch

01:44:43   of stuff that we've been doing this week, coverage for WWDC, if you go to Relay.fm

01:44:47   you'll find a bunch of shows there, Rocket Clockwise upgrade as well as this lovely show

01:44:53   connected that I'm sure that you have enjoyed very much as we have enjoyed recording it and we'll be

01:44:58   back next week and I think we'll all be back to normal again. I hope so. Until then, say goodbye guys.

01:45:05   Arrivederci. Adios. We did it!

01:45:10   Woo!

01:45:12   [