42: Intellectual Ambiguity


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:07   From Relay FM, this is Connected, episode number 42. Today's show is brought to you by

00:00:13   Lynda.com where you can instantly stream thousands of courses created by industry experts,

00:00:18   hover, simplified domain management and OmniFocus. Now on the Apple Watch.

00:00:23   My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined by Mr. Stephen Hackett. Hello Stephen Hackett.

00:00:29   Hello Michael Hurley. How are you? I'm doing well. I should start the show with a thank you

00:00:36   to my wife. It is our wedding anniversary and I am here recording a podcast with you instead of

00:00:42   on a date with her. So she gets a high five from the connected nation, the international connected

00:00:48   fan base. Thank you, Ms Hackett. Yes, but we're without Federico this week. No, yes,

00:00:56   We should have mentioned that as well. We do have no Federica. It's just just me and Stephen

00:01:00   However, we do have another accent joining us a little bit later on Federica's on the beach for a little bit of a holiday. So

00:01:06   He's having fun fun in the Sun as the kids say I think it's was it Republic Day or something

00:01:13   Yes, it's when Italy won its independence from the British. I don't think that is I

00:01:19   Don't think that's how it works

00:01:22   Like listen, you know if we want to start talking about empires you want to look at the Roman Empire and yeah

00:01:27   We can go down that whole route if you want to yeah, really everybody is

00:01:30   Gaining their freedom from Federico's people

00:01:33   So we're gonna do some some follow-up so a

00:01:42   Friend of the I'm gonna say friend of the network because I can do that

00:01:47   friend of the network

00:01:50   You say don't mm-hmm

00:01:52   (laughing)

00:01:53   - Jamie Phelps, JXPX777.

00:01:56   - 11.38.

00:01:57   - That's a different movie.

00:01:59   Wrote on his web blog about his Sony Ericsson T637.

00:02:05   - Oh, look at that bad boy.

00:02:08   - Yeah, I remember, do you remember these phones?

00:02:11   They were awesome.

00:02:12   A friend of mine had one and I was super jealous.

00:02:15   So he writes on his blog about us talking

00:02:18   about someone else's idea of calendar based

00:02:21   not disturb. So if you remember this from a couple weeks ago the the general idea

00:02:25   is that if I'm in a meeting my phone should know that because of a calendar

00:02:29   invite and it should put itself and do not disturb you know if I set it up to do so.

00:02:32   And turns out these Sony Ericsson phones did this way back in the day so not

00:02:40   necessarily a new idea but I still think it's a really good idea. What do you

00:02:46   think? Do you still want this? I do still want that idea. I used to have a phone

00:02:51   that was kind of like this. I had like a Sony Ericsson Walkman phone. It was my

00:02:57   last phone before I got an iPhone, before the iPhone came out, and it was black and

00:03:02   orange and it had the... I don't know how... I don't know why they called it a Walkman

00:03:07   phone. You could put music on it, like you could put music on basically any phone

00:03:10   at that point. Right, the rocker kind of brought that into being a

00:03:15   little bit. Well, we had more... we had phones here that could do that stuff before

00:03:18   that was just you could plug that thing into iTunes like that's right there was

00:03:23   like I had some Sony software that I could basically put music onto my onto

00:03:29   my Sony Walkman phone I used to do it had radio on it and stuff as well you

00:03:33   know it was pretty cool if if people want to see a link to jxpx777's

00:03:40   blog post where could they go Myke oh they could go to relay.fm/connected/42

00:03:47   The sound you heard was Myke scrolling back to the top of the document to see

00:03:51   what episode number this is. It was actually, I swiped to the left with a

00:03:57   four finger gesture to go back to the CMS to see it in big bold text. Nice

00:04:02   that's a life hack that only really a handful of us can do. So we have some

00:04:09   we have some nose tapping follow-up and like the browser history and like many

00:04:15   other things over the three years of us doing a show together I am implementing

00:04:21   a end of nose tapping follow-up I am instigating the reincarnation of the

00:04:27   nose-dipping follow-up now so short-lived so Peter wrote in and and

00:04:34   Peter apparently lives where does he say in Michigan I think so Michigan is in

00:04:38   the very north part of the country where it touches Canada it's very cold they

00:04:43   have like I don't know like moose walking around lots of snow and ice I'm

00:04:49   very unlike the weather we have here that's hot very like the weather that

00:04:53   you have in London which is I think just wet all the time so Peter writes in to

00:04:58   say I've been nose tapping on the iPhone since day one and so is everyone around

00:05:03   me because when you're outside during I love this eternal Michigan winter you

00:05:08   have to keep your gloves on it's not new with the Apple watch and it's not weird

00:05:11   and he said he was frustrated with us for not thinking about this and

00:05:15   I would like to apologize to the people of Michigan and really all winter states

00:05:19   But uh you know if it's 10 degrees out like he says it is then I think I would probably nose tap too if it

00:05:26   Came down to it better than than taking a glove off to take care of something something simple I suppose

00:05:31   So I think Myke I think what you're gonna need to do is

00:05:35   We're gonna need to put one of us in like some sort of large

00:05:38   Like a meat freezer and see if you're more prone to nose tap under cold conditions

00:05:43   I will notice half under all conditions my friend

00:05:48   Well your conditions we got to find somebody who hasn't nose tapped and I admitted to it last week again like Peter

00:05:56   Under circumstances that were not normal. You're just doing it walking around like a normal human being I do at home

00:06:02   well, I mean

00:06:06   Privacy of your home. I know it's one thing. Have you done it in public you've done in public? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah

00:06:11   It's like I talked to my watch in public

00:06:14   Yeah, I can't

00:06:17   I don't go crazy with it. But like I will I will whisper the occasional thing, you know

00:06:22   Like replied to a text message or something. I'll totally do that

00:06:25   Yeah, I do wish

00:06:29   I do wish Siri could talk back or at least it could be an option for it to talk back

00:06:34   So, you know, if you do see on your watch, it just gives you text back and it's weird not hearing the device

00:06:40   Respond to you. Have you found that sort of strange or off-putting?

00:06:43   Yeah, especially when it gives me some sort of funny response

00:06:48   Yeah, you're just reading it. It's like yeah, it's like it's not funny when you're not delivering it

00:06:53   Like I know there's not an awful lot of comedic delivery

00:06:56   From Siri, but I don't know if just feels weird to just be reading jokes back from the computer robot

00:07:03   I don't know. Robot or not huh? Yeah that's a different network. Yeah so thank you Peter

00:07:11   for writing in. We wish you all the best and you know maybe maybe global warming will take

00:07:19   care of you. So that's all my follow Myke. It's short and sweet this week. On that happy

00:07:26   note should we take our first break for this week? That'd be great. This week's episode

00:07:30   is

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00:09:50   So we have a little bit of connected QA as topic zero. So you want to

00:09:58   tackle this first one? Because I don't have a good answer for the first one.

00:10:03   Neither do I. So this is from @zavaloth on Twitter. If computers didn't exist,

00:10:08   what would you guys do for a living? I guess now right if you ask me right now

00:10:14   I'd probably try and get into radio. Yeah I mean radio pre-exists to computers so

00:10:21   I think intellectually your answer works. I think that's probably what

00:10:25   I'd go for. Other than that I would I don't know maybe theater or something

00:10:32   now like I've never I've never been an actor of any kind but I figured now I'm

00:10:38   I'm too used to doing things that entertainment, you know?

00:10:43   I'm too used to creating entertainment,

00:10:44   so I'd probably have to try and create something like that

00:10:47   again to be creative, and that's probably the only way

00:10:52   I could do something like that, I think.

00:10:53   - Yeah, it's hard intellectually,

00:10:55   because you're saying that knowing what you do now,

00:10:57   but the question doesn't specify,

00:10:59   do computers suddenly go away?

00:11:01   And so now you're like, oh, I gotta find something else

00:11:03   to do, or like, who you are has been shaped

00:11:06   by the fact that you grew up with technology,

00:11:08   So it's hard to, it's a very tricky question.

00:11:11   Very tricky.

00:11:13   My best answer is something with my hands.

00:11:15   So like thoughts I had was like a bicycle building,

00:11:18   a repair.

00:11:19   - You could play a trumpet.

00:11:21   - I could play a trumpet.

00:11:22   I'm not very musical.

00:11:23   But like I, again, like to have computers disappear

00:11:29   to they never exist, like I really enjoyed my time

00:11:33   as like a hardware technician.

00:11:34   And so I think doing something with my hands,

00:11:36   taking things apart, putting them back together,

00:11:37   sort of repair or construction I think would be would get me by just fine it's

00:11:45   good it's a good question I like that there was intellectual ambiguity in it

00:11:49   it's a good one okay and the next question comes from I'm gonna say eaten

00:11:55   eaten Schulman on Twitter what watch app do you wish existed native ones really

00:12:06   Is that the best you have for us?

00:12:07   - I really do.

00:12:08   So I've written about watch faces and glances on 512.

00:12:13   I haven't written about the apps yet,

00:12:14   but I'm really only using like three of them.

00:12:16   And there's not one that like,

00:12:18   I really wish I had that I don't have.

00:12:20   I just, to me, the watch does what it does and that's fine,

00:12:25   but there's not like a gaping hole in my watch workflow.

00:12:28   I don't know. What about you?

00:12:30   - My biggest one is Google apps,

00:12:32   because I like to use Google apps on my phone,

00:12:34   because I like to receive transit directions.

00:12:37   That's my main thing.

00:12:38   I've been hearing a lot of people

00:12:38   talk about Apple Maps recently.

00:12:40   Fundamentally, the main reason I cannot use Apple Maps

00:12:43   is because I need transit directions.

00:12:46   And Google, and the reason that I like to use one app

00:12:49   for walking and transit directions

00:12:52   is because I like to know how long it's gonna take me

00:12:54   to get from one place to another.

00:12:55   Like, I could go to a different app,

00:12:57   and I've tried other apps like CityMapper and stuff,

00:12:59   I don't like them.

00:13:00   I like Google Maps, it's very easy.

00:13:02   and it also has a better database and stuff. I just like going to Google Maps and doing all of that.

00:13:07   At the moment, then when I get off the train or whatever and then I want to walk places,

00:13:13   I go to Apple Maps and enter the location in Apple Maps because I love, love the Apple Maps

00:13:21   integration on the Apple Watch. I think it might be my favorite feature. Like the tapping stuff.

00:13:25   Tapping the beep beep beep beep beep.

00:13:28   It's so good man. It's just so good.

00:13:30   Yeah, I like it too.

00:13:32   because my main thing is like I still haven't 100% worked out what the taps mean but like it just

00:13:37   makes me look at my like I'm basically no oh I better look at my wrist you know and I really

00:13:43   really love it I've been whenever I've been walking around London a few times over the last

00:13:46   couple of weeks like just going to places I've never been before or like just taking some

00:13:51   directions that I've never taken before and the Apple watch has just made it so easy because I

00:13:56   always hated like walking around the streets with my phone out like I just don't like that

00:14:01   Especially when you have a big phone as well,

00:14:04   it's like, come with something, keep taking it

00:14:05   out of your pocket, put it away, keep that pocket put away.

00:14:07   - Myke was wrong.

00:14:07   - It's frustrating.

00:14:08   Nope, Myke was right because now I have the best

00:14:10   of both worlds.

00:14:11   - Yeah, you hear this, this is my six plus.

00:14:14   That's right.

00:14:15   - So I'm really, I really, really love it,

00:14:18   but I would like to see Google Maps,

00:14:19   but I don't think we'll get that until the native SDK

00:14:22   because it's not gonna be good enough.

00:14:25   - I think there's, I think that's a good example,

00:14:28   maybe the best example I can think of,

00:14:30   an app that maybe they're waiting until native apps. Maybe they're saying hey, you know what watch kit

00:14:35   We can't do what we want to do. So we're just gonna

00:14:37   Gonna sit it out

00:14:39   but I do like the Apple Maps watch integration I

00:14:42   drive a good bit during the week and some place, you know sometimes to

00:14:46   To places that I don't know where they are

00:14:49   so, you know use directions around town and and just the tapping and like be able to

00:14:52   Just glance at my watch instead of like fishing my phone out of the cup holder

00:14:56   To see where my turn is and that sort of thing is really great. I know not everybody

00:15:00   Likes it but some people on Twitter talking about that. But I really do like that it that it mirrors what's on the phone and

00:15:08   You know, there's rumors that I was 9 will bring transit directions. Maybe maybe your answer will be

00:15:14   You know will come in a different form than you expect

00:15:18   Yeah, and I'm I have heard that but I reserve judgment

00:15:25   because I'm just I'm just not sure about it yet because Apple Maps walking

00:15:32   directions can still be super wonky so I don't know how I feel about transit

00:15:37   especially because we have complex transit here because we have lots of it

00:15:41   you know so we have buses and trains and tubes and like National Rail over ground

00:15:47   and transit has to be exactly right like yeah you can't mess that up that has to

00:15:50   be bang on and in theory you can make it exactly right because at least in the UK

00:15:54   Transport for London holds all of that data and they can license it in one big

00:16:00   chunk. So we should actually be one of the easier places I think to get a lot

00:16:04   of that especially in London then maybe some other cities would be in the world

00:16:09   but that's what I expect anyway because I know people license it to make apps.

00:16:12   If that's a that's fair it'll be interesting to see what Apple does with

00:16:16   that and you know trains it's not really a big thing for me here but I could see

00:16:20   that being a really frustrating, you know, feature not to have if you if you depend

00:16:26   on it. So topic 0.5 is that our friends at Microsoft have made another

00:16:36   acquisition. They sure have. They bought Wunderlist. Yeah, which is a little

00:16:43   surprising to me initially but you know upon thinking about it it makes a lot of

00:16:46   since and Federica wrote about it I think today or yesterday about that they

00:16:50   acquired I see miss actually Vunderlist right not wonder list I just realized

00:16:55   you live closer Germany than I do yeah cuz the company's name is six

00:16:58   Wunderkinde because you know W's are pronounced that way in Germany yeah so I

00:17:04   assumed it's it's Wunderlist and we've been calling it Wunderlist this whole

00:17:08   time so I apologize to six Wunderkinde and now Microsoft this is like

00:17:15   - Microsoft.

00:17:15   (laughing)

00:17:18   - Get out, get out now.

00:17:20   - You're gonna be alone.

00:17:21   - Fine, I will take it.

00:17:23   I can do it. - It's monologue.

00:17:25   - I think this is genius.

00:17:27   This is a genius move.

00:17:29   This is like, Microsoft right now

00:17:32   doing some really exciting stuff.

00:17:33   They are strengthening their cross platform strategy.

00:17:36   They are really digging deep on like making

00:17:39   the Office ecosystem, I guess it would be, kind of,

00:17:43   like stronger and stronger.

00:17:44   'Cause I mean, they bought a Compley

00:17:46   and turned that into an office product effectively,

00:17:48   they turned it into Outlook.

00:17:50   But Sunrise is still Sunrise.

00:17:53   And it looks like at least for the time being,

00:17:56   Wunderlist is going to remain Wunderlist.

00:17:59   I'm going all in on that now.

00:18:00   And that makes sense, right?

00:18:03   Because a Compley didn't really have a brand behind it.

00:18:07   It was new and I don't think a lot of people really used it.

00:18:10   But these two, like Sunrise and Wunderlist, they do.

00:18:14   definitely do and plus there is less of a fit because Microsoft don't have a

00:18:19   office calendar app and an office task app so maybe in six months time they

00:18:24   will rebrand them with these new you know we'll get like Microsoft agenda and

00:18:29   Microsoft tasks you know as brands and they'll sit in the office suite but I

00:18:33   think this is genius they're acquiring smart young nimble companies that are

00:18:38   experimenting and doing exciting stuff rather than trying to build this stuff

00:18:41   internally. I think this is a genius move and it makes them stronger and stronger.

00:18:45   It makes them much more exciting and it's that you know they're buying

00:18:49   companies that have strong iOS presences, strong Android presences, so they don't

00:18:54   have to build three times. I just think this new Microsoft that they've

00:19:00   been like showing over the last few months, I just continue to be more and

00:19:04   more excited by it. I totally agree and I think you're right it helps round out

00:19:10   their sort of consumer stuff because they do have made me outlook and exchange

00:19:14   just calendaring but not the way sunrise does and you could do to-do list in

00:19:18   outlook and exchange but not the way that that Thunderless does so it's it's

00:19:22   them moving more to the consumer market you know there's been a lot of talk

00:19:25   about like Google's apps on iOS we're talking about that today but I think

00:19:30   Microsoft you know they're doing a lot again cross-platform you know going

00:19:34   looking outside their own OS's to bring services and applications

00:19:40   to a bigger market and that obviously makes a lot of sense because

00:19:44   Windows Phone is really little. But yeah I hope that they continue to

00:19:49   let these guys do good work. It's a great app. We named it our the best

00:19:52   shared to-do list on the suite setup I think last year. And so yeah really

00:19:58   happy for those guys and we'll keep an eye on it but I think

00:20:02   I think Microsoft can handle this and handle it well.

00:20:06   Good times.

00:20:07   - So yeah, this is one of those Wall Street Journal

00:20:11   reported stories that I think they said 100 million

00:20:13   or something, and then I put it in the document

00:20:16   and then before, in between me putting it in the document

00:20:19   and I was starting to show it from the list confirmed it,

00:20:21   or Six Month at Kinda confirmed it.

00:20:23   So congratulations to them.

00:20:25   Like, that's a lot of money.

00:20:27   (laughs)

00:20:29   That's a lot of money.

00:20:31   Would you sell to Microsoft for $100 million?

00:20:34   Me?

00:20:35   I mean, all I can sell is half of Relay and 5V pixels,

00:20:40   100% of that.

00:20:41   I don't know if that's really in Microsoft's wheelhouse.

00:20:45   Well, I mean, if Microsoft would like

00:20:47   to give us $100 million, I think we would definitely

00:20:49   entertain the idea.

00:20:51   I think so.

00:20:51   I mean--

00:20:53   I would create a Microsoft podcast for $100 million.

00:20:58   I would sell out for $100 million.

00:21:00   I just want to put that on the table.

00:21:01   - Yeah, see now we're gonna get emails

00:21:02   from people who want a Microsoft podcast.

00:21:04   - Well, they can have one.

00:21:05   They just have to give me $100 million.

00:21:07   That is my price for a Microsoft podcast, $100 million.

00:21:12   - We should just move on.

00:21:14   - Move on to receiving $100 million?

00:21:15   This week's episode is brought to you by OmniFocus.

00:21:22   And when we come back from this,

00:21:23   we're gonna be talking to Russell Wojtowicz

00:21:25   about Google Photos.

00:21:27   I just love OmniFocus. My life is in OmniFocus. Without OmniFocus I don't think I could get

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00:21:59   I do this on my iPhone, I do this on my Mac, I love the whole ecosystem there.

00:22:05   There's been a universal update recently for the iOS apps and now the iPad and

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00:22:16   still really good for forecast which is OmniFocus'

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00:22:43   It's great and the iPhone's got it, the Mac's got it, the iPad's got it. I love

00:22:47   that feature. But today I want to tell you a little bit more about OmniFocus

00:22:50   for the Apple Watch. So one of the things that I've been doing now is I check what

00:22:54   tasks I have on my Apple Watch. I can add items to my inbox just by dictation in

00:22:59   the app on the Apple Watch which is awesome which is really good for when I'm

00:23:02   walking down the street and I have that idea that I have to throw in there. It

00:23:05   comes for free with the universal version of OmniFocus. It's just waiting for

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00:23:11   productive on the go. It's a great way to get a glance of what you have due for

00:23:15   today, what's upcoming, anything that's passed. You can very quickly and easily

00:23:19   get a glance, no pun intended, of what you need to take care of. They have a glance,

00:23:23   and they have an app and I have them both. I like the glance as well because it tells me the next

00:23:26   upcoming thing that I have. You can even check things off right from within the Apple Watch app

00:23:31   as well. Continuity picks up the last perspective, context or project that you were looking at on

00:23:36   your iPhone. So it's make sure that you're always where you need to be. I just love it. This is just

00:23:42   something else on top of the system that I already love so much. And the awesome people at OmniGroup,

00:23:47   I don't even know how they did this, have created a pretty much full functioning demo of OmniFocus

00:23:52   on the Apple Watch on their website so you can get a feel for how it works

00:23:56   before you go and actually buy the universal version of OmniFocus and get

00:24:00   the Apple Watch app. If you go to omnigroup.com/omnifocus you can play

00:24:03   around with this demo. It's pretty fantastic. The OmniGroup back all of this

00:24:07   up with an amazing support team and they are so confident that you are going to

00:24:11   love OmniFocus. They even offer a 30-day return policy. This is not something you

00:24:16   see a lot of iOS app developers do at all but Omni make it happen. So go and

00:24:19   check out OmniFocus today go to omni group.com/omnifocus. Thank you so

00:24:24   much to the Omni Group for supporting this show and all of Relay FM. So I'm so

00:24:29   happy that we are now joined by Mr. Russell Ivanovich of Shifty Jelly,

00:24:33   developer of the award-winning pocket cast. Hi Russell, how are you?

00:24:37   Hi Myke, I'm just here fondling my new award. Yes, you're in San Francisco right

00:24:42   now, right? I am indeed. I'm finally almost in your time zone.

00:24:46   Well, I don't know if it works like that. I think you're about the same distance away.

00:24:52   You're closer to me. Damn it. I fly across the world to try and get closer to your time

00:24:56   zone and I just fail. You overshot it just a tad. So congratulations, if anybody doesn't

00:25:01   know, PocketCasts was awarded a material design award in the inaugural material design awards

00:25:08   at Google I/O. So congratulations. Why thank you, and if anyone doesn't know, probably

00:25:14   Chris and Phil really deserve the

00:25:16   Congratulations for that award. Although I did help just a tiny bit. Thanks. I'm gonna take someone to credit

00:25:22   Yeah, okay. It's it's all me. I don't know who anyone else works for a team. It's a team of one

00:25:29   It's well deserved. It's

00:25:31   Parkhouses is beautiful and I've been playing with Android a little bit recently and it's

00:25:36   It's kind of like my go-to app when I think about material design in my brain. So good job. Good job

00:25:44   Occupying my my mind space if you will. Oh, thank you

00:25:48   so

00:25:51   We thought we'd cover Google Photos today, so we have a course because we have to

00:25:56   Yes, because we are the photo management podcast. Well, I gotta stop you if you cover this and it shuts down

00:26:02   I'm holding you personally responsible

00:26:04   Curse if the curse can overcome Google Photos then

00:26:08   Then we're doing something very right or very wrong

00:26:12   So at Google I/O now last week

00:26:15   Google announced Google Photos which more or less and I want to get into this a little bit more or less is what Google Plus

00:26:22   did with photos, but now it's sort of unbundled uncoupled because I think the Google Plus brand is

00:26:28   not in great standing

00:26:30   So so kind of

00:26:34   High level what is what's Google doing in this in the space Russell?

00:26:40   Okay, so pre Google Photos you had something called Google+ Photos which like you say was

00:26:45   weirdly kind of embedded with the whole Google+ social network and I've been using that I

00:26:50   think for at least a year now just to, it does the auto upload thing, all your photos

00:26:54   go up, you know they're all there, it creates weird little stories out of them and does

00:26:58   animated gifs and stuff.

00:27:00   So I guess the new bit is they've broken it out into its own separate app and they've

00:27:05   They've added some really cool, I guess, I don't know what you call it, categorization

00:27:10   and it recognizes people, it recognizes places and it does all of this without you having

00:27:16   to lift a finger.

00:27:17   So I was one of those users that used to go into iPhoto and say, "Yes, this is me and

00:27:20   this is my wife and we went here and try and geotag on my photos and all that."

00:27:25   So this does all of that for you, which is just amazing.

00:27:30   Just I mean, we're going to jump around a little bit now because I have a question that

00:27:33   I've been meaning to ask someone and I can ask you.

00:27:36   I'm uploading photos to Google Photos

00:27:38   and I'll talk about that in a minute.

00:27:39   And it hasn't done any face detection though.

00:27:41   Do I need to do something?

00:27:43   - No, it's just magical.

00:27:44   So it doesn't know the names of the people.

00:27:47   So basically if I look at mine,

00:27:48   I see the people that I've taken the photos of most.

00:27:51   So my kids are number one and two.

00:27:53   And then there's myself and then there's my wife

00:27:55   and there's a few other people, you know,

00:27:56   I regularly stalk and take photos of like Philip.

00:28:00   And it doesn't know who those people are,

00:28:01   but it knows every single photo that they're in

00:28:03   and it just kind of auto-categorizes it.

00:28:05   So I'll give you a creepy example.

00:28:07   Someone was asking me for a photo of Philip the other day.

00:28:09   You know, they're like,

00:28:10   "Oh, we have to have a photo of Phil."

00:28:11   So I just went in there, I clicked on his face,

00:28:13   and it literally showed me every photo

00:28:15   that Philip's ever been in.

00:28:16   I could find the one I wanted and send that off.

00:28:19   - Where in the UI is that exactly?

00:28:21   - Yeah, this is the weird part.

00:28:23   So I couldn't find it for the first 30 minutes.

00:28:24   It's in the search button.

00:28:26   So the second you hit search, you get people,

00:28:28   I think you get places and you get categories,

00:28:30   then you can just free text search as well.

00:28:32   Yeah, I only have places and things.

00:28:34   Maybe it needs more data, I don't know,

00:28:35   but I don't know people yet.

00:28:36   But anyway, that's an aside that nobody else needs to hear.

00:28:39   So there is some limits to what you can put in, right?

00:28:44   'Cause it's unlimited and limited, is my understanding.

00:28:47   It's kind of a bit peculiar in the way

00:28:49   that that's broken down.

00:28:51   Well, I guess if you use an iPhone 6 or a 6 Plus,

00:28:53   it's effectively unlimited.

00:28:55   You know, you have an eight megapixel camera

00:28:56   that is unlimited up to 16 megapixel,

00:28:59   I think 1080p is the video limit. So that's all the iPhone takes as well. So even someone like me who has

00:29:04   Wink wink does not just slightly better camera on my phone in the s6

00:29:08   It is it is honestly bad. We won't get into that today

00:29:12   This is not why we invited you onto this show, yeah, I got that in there didn't I? Thank you Samsung for my check later

00:29:21   No, so that takes 16 megapixels photos and it can take 4k video

00:29:25   So assuming you go the free route, it will actually down sample that 4K video down to

00:29:30   1080p.

00:29:31   But I'm one of those people that pays, I think it's $12 a year to get, I want to say 100

00:29:36   gigabytes of storage.

00:29:37   So the cool thing about that, I'm hoping this still works the same way, is when you go over

00:29:41   those limits, that's the only thing that counts against your storage.

00:29:44   So I have about 120 gig worth of stuff in there, but I'm only being, I think, allocated

00:29:51   for about 50 of it.

00:29:52   Yeah, that makes sense to me now why, like what it says my allocation is seems way lower

00:29:59   than, that you've just made sense to me because my allocation is some really small number

00:30:03   but I know I have gigabytes of photos in there at the moment and it's like, you're like 500

00:30:07   megabytes.

00:30:08   I'm like, I don't understand what's happening here.

00:30:10   Yeah, so it's only the ones that go over that limit and those limits used to be, they used

00:30:14   to have the same thing, they were just far lower.

00:30:16   I think originally it was, I want to say 2048 pixels across and the videos were, I don't

00:30:21   I don't know, maybe 720p or something,

00:30:23   but they've upped both of those.

00:30:25   - So I decided that I was gonna kind of go in with this

00:30:30   and just upload some photos.

00:30:32   'Cause I saw the presentation

00:30:33   and I thought it looked really interesting.

00:30:35   Because there isn't really anything about Apple's solution

00:30:39   that really made me wanna jump.

00:30:43   Like there just wasn't anything there for me

00:30:45   that I thought was compelling enough.

00:30:47   Like I could already get to my photos,

00:30:49   I have them on Dropbox.

00:30:50   I don't ever really look through them enough that that would be the main

00:30:54   reason because that kind of seems to be the main reason is you can have all of

00:30:57   your photos wherever you want them. I kind of have never really needed that.

00:31:01   It's never really been a massive thing for me. I always looked for other stuff

00:31:04   so like when I was using Everpix I liked the flashback features and some of

00:31:09   the categorization stuff that they did so it was fun to use that but my Dropbox

00:31:12   solution has done a pretty good job and you can get apps that can let you turn

00:31:16   Dropbox into like a like you know can get apps that put like a viewer in front

00:31:20   of Dropbox kind of thing that we've spoken about on the show before. But I saw the stuff

00:31:23   that Google was doing and I was like that looks really interesting to me. Like yeah

00:31:27   the ability to like search without there being any tagging and it finds things. So I was

00:31:31   like I want to give this a go. So I've pointed like a few thousand photos at it so far and

00:31:38   it's been sucking them up. The best way to do this I've found is to download this little

00:31:43   Mac uploader which you can get from the photos website and it just sits there. You just tell

00:31:49   what files, what folders you want it to suck in,

00:31:51   so I just pointed my Dropbox photos folder at it,

00:31:55   pulled out some that I didn't want.

00:31:56   And then it gives you this really weird dialogue

00:31:59   about duplication in Google Drive,

00:32:01   'cause you can, Steven, you just found this, I think,

00:32:03   that you can sync them to your computer

00:32:05   via Google Drive, right?

00:32:07   - Sort of, so it doesn't,

00:32:10   so I did the same thing you did,

00:32:11   I pointed at a folder with subfolders of images,

00:32:14   and so you can go into Google Drive on the web

00:32:18   and there's like a ad as a folder type guy,

00:32:23   and so it'll syncs the photos back down,

00:32:25   but they're just, it's just a flat structure.

00:32:28   There's no organization or subfolders there.

00:32:32   So what I was thinking, or what I was kinda hoping

00:32:34   was it to be like Dropbox.

00:32:35   So I could have local directories,

00:32:37   I could have full res copies locally in my machine,

00:32:40   and that just sort of get mirrored in the cloud,

00:32:42   but it's not really the way it works.

00:32:43   And in hindsight, of course,

00:32:45   Google is very much a web first client second,

00:32:47   in many ways.

00:32:49   And so there's a sort of some of these edge cases

00:32:51   you have to be aware of if you want to use this

00:32:54   more like iCloud photo library.

00:32:59   It's not really quite the same thing.

00:33:01   - Yeah, it's definitely a little bit different to that.

00:33:04   I mean, what I generally do is just once a month,

00:33:08   I go to the Google takeout thing that they have

00:33:10   and I just download a full backup of all my photos

00:33:13   and then store that somewhere.

00:33:16   That's the top tip.

00:33:18   - That's the top tip.

00:33:19   It is a big download.

00:33:20   I mean, if you don't have good internet,

00:33:22   good luck getting that.

00:33:23   So I think I have, I wanna say 35,000 photos

00:33:26   in there at the moment.

00:33:27   And I think the thing that amazed me the most

00:33:29   is I could just search for anything.

00:33:30   I could say, show me pictures of the beach in 2012.

00:33:33   Show me where I was for this picture.

00:33:36   I did this funny one.

00:33:37   I searched for Sydney Harbour

00:33:38   and it found the Sydney Harbour Bridge

00:33:40   in a picture of a picture.

00:33:42   So I'd been to someone's house.

00:33:43   I'd taken a picture of some pictures

00:33:45   So they've taken it, it actually took, yeah, it's like, yeah, that's the Sydney Harbour

00:33:48   Bridge and it does some amazing stuff.

00:33:52   Just for a joke, I just search for pictures of sleeping, for example, and it shows you

00:33:55   people sleeping.

00:33:56   You know, pictures of babies, it shows you pictures of babies.

00:33:58   And this is all, you've got to remember in your photo library that you haven't spent

00:34:01   any time tagging.

00:34:02   So I didn't have to go through and say, you know, this is a picture of someone sleeping.

00:34:06   I searched for koala just for you guys as well, and that works as well.

00:34:09   Because in my backyard I have some koalas.

00:34:14   - Yeah, for someone who, I'm not gonna be moving

00:34:18   to this full time, but in thinking about it,

00:34:21   I sort of view it as, it could be a way

00:34:23   to have my photos backed up somewhere else

00:34:25   and give me a different way to get into them

00:34:27   where I could, again, easily search.

00:34:30   And I have folders and subfolders done by sort of event type

00:34:35   or it's kind of a mix of events and people

00:34:37   and this would give me a way to search sort of across

00:34:40   all of that stuff and the search really, I think,

00:34:43   is the most impressive thing about this.

00:34:45   Like you said, it's very natural search,

00:34:47   like, hey, you know, I went on vacation in 2008.

00:34:50   Like it knows when it was and it kind of knows where it is.

00:34:54   And it really is like,

00:34:57   this is how Google can flex its muscle

00:35:00   over anyone else in the industry, I think.

00:35:02   - Definitely, if you want to look at, you know,

00:35:04   what are the biggest differences between this

00:35:06   and, you know, iCloud photos,

00:35:07   it's definitely that search and categorization

00:35:10   that Google's able to do, you know,

00:35:11   on a massive scale on their servers.

00:35:12   So I'll give you another example.

00:35:14   I was doing just an interview with someone,

00:35:17   just over email, and they said,

00:35:19   can you give me a picture of your setup at work?

00:35:21   What does your desk look like?

00:35:22   So I just searched for computer monitor,

00:35:24   scrolled down, there's my monitor at work

00:35:26   with my Mac Pro next to it,

00:35:27   and I just sent the guy the picture.

00:35:29   Really handy.

00:35:30   - So this is the exact reason why I decided

00:35:33   I wanted to sign up for this,

00:35:35   'cause I just think that that is so awesome.

00:35:37   And it doesn't get it right 100% of the time.

00:35:40   Sometimes I know there are things in there

00:35:41   it's not finding but my feeling about this is the fact that you can do any of it is awesome

00:35:46   and the longer I use this if I really do you know want to keep using it the better I know

00:35:51   it's going to get right just over time this stuff will improve but the I think the thing

00:35:57   that has that has impressed me the most right now is some uploading my photos and I get

00:36:01   a push notification every little while we've made a collage for you or we've made an animation

00:36:06   for you or we've made a collection for you and these are just these awesome things or

00:36:10   Or they take a photo and they're like "We've enhanced it" and they've just made it look

00:36:14   more artistic or they've corrected color or something.

00:36:19   Or they'll say "Hey, what about that time you went to San Francisco?" and it's like

00:36:22   showing me WWDC last year or it's showing me Atlanta and it picks up all the photos

00:36:27   and puts them in this little story and it breaks them up by day.

00:36:31   Or it takes a selection of images that were taken in quick succession and it turns them

00:36:36   into an animation.

00:36:37   And I know that this stuff has been around for a while, that like Auto Awesome I believe

00:36:41   it was called on Google Plus.

00:36:43   Yeah that's what it was.

00:36:45   It's so fantastic to I think to just get these little things that pop up every now and then.

00:36:49   And look I've had some weird ones, I've had ex girlfriends and stuff appear.

00:36:54   But it's like I'm not going to blame Google for that because they have no, they can't

00:36:58   know that.

00:36:59   So that's not an issue that I have.

00:37:01   Actually they probably do but they just don't want to let me know that they know.

00:37:06   Yeah they don't want to turn that on, they don't want to freak you out too much.

00:37:09   But I found the same thing, so I've had this for years now.

00:37:12   The best time honestly is when you go on a trip somewhere, like you were saying WWDC,

00:37:16   like I went to an island just off the coast called Kangaroo Island and it literally made

00:37:21   like a photo book of my journey which is something I used to love to get home and do like in

00:37:25   iPhoto and it did a really good job.

00:37:27   Yeah this is the thing that I'm most impressed with because it takes your photos and gives

00:37:31   you little presents.

00:37:32   Like, they give me little gifts every now and then.

00:37:36   And it's just nice, I like it.

00:37:38   It's something that, it just adds a bit of playfulness.

00:37:41   And this is part of my overall feeling about Google Photos,

00:37:46   especially where it is right now,

00:37:48   is this is not a professional,

00:37:52   like, this is not a pro user's tool, right?

00:37:55   Because the unlimited stuff is for lower quality stuff,

00:37:59   right, and/or they will take your photos

00:38:02   and they will down res them a little bit,

00:38:04   which I don't care about,

00:38:05   but I know that there are loads of people that will,

00:38:07   and that's fine.

00:38:08   And then when they take your photos,

00:38:09   they do fun things with them.

00:38:11   Like, this is a consumer tool,

00:38:13   and I am a consumer when it comes to photos.

00:38:15   All of my photos are taken on my iPhone.

00:38:17   Like, I'm totally happy with that.

00:38:19   That's where they live.

00:38:21   And I'm, the way that I've got it is,

00:38:23   at the moment, I'm still doing my automatic upload

00:38:26   from my phone to Dropbox,

00:38:29   as I've done for years now,

00:38:31   and then Dropbox sucks them in to Google Photos

00:38:36   and that works for me 'cause it stays out of the way

00:38:38   and then I get all these other cool features.

00:38:41   - Yeah, no, that sounds like a good way to go

00:38:42   and I definitely agree.

00:38:43   If you're someone with a digital SLR

00:38:46   that takes 40 megapixel raw images

00:38:49   and you need to archive those

00:38:50   'cause they're from weddings or whatever,

00:38:52   this is not a tool for you.

00:38:54   It's like you say, it's a consumer thing.

00:38:55   It's for people like me.

00:38:56   I go out, I take 99.9% of my photos on my phone

00:39:00   and then I want some quick way to have access to those.

00:39:03   And it's just really cool that, you know,

00:39:04   in the background without you worrying,

00:39:06   they just all end up in a central place

00:39:07   and a central place that is now searchable.

00:39:10   You know, I didn't have that two weeks ago.

00:39:12   - Right.

00:39:15   Real quick before we cut you loose,

00:39:16   you know, there's been a lot of conversation

00:39:19   and there always is with Google,

00:39:21   especially in the Apple sort of camp,

00:39:23   that Google is gonna do things with your data

00:39:26   or they're going to, you know,

00:39:29   your kids are gonna end up on an ad somewhere.

00:39:32   You know, there's this really interesting article,

00:39:35   if you guys saw it, over on Medium,

00:39:38   Federico linked to it on Mac Stories a couple days ago,

00:39:40   that talks about this, and basically,

00:39:42   with the head of Streams Photos and sharing it at Google,

00:39:46   basically, sort of sums up, Myke,

00:39:47   your sort of stance on Google over the years of like,

00:39:51   yes, they have access to a lot of data about me,

00:39:52   but I get all these great things back,

00:39:54   and I think you even just said that with the photos,

00:39:55   like, you know, they can do all these little things,

00:39:58   and you get all these really nice tools and stuff

00:40:01   at your fingertips, but there's a part of me,

00:40:05   and I'm using Google Photos, and I will continue to use it

00:40:08   as just, like I said, another window into my photo library.

00:40:11   But does that sort of stuff make you guys think

00:40:16   differently about using this, or is it something

00:40:19   that is not really a concern, or maybe it is a concern

00:40:24   but not an important one?

00:40:26   What are your thoughts on that?

00:40:28   So I mean my take on that is that, you know, we, as part of what I do, like I run servers,

00:40:34   I know where files go, I know how cloud hosting works, so any company that you're going to

00:40:39   use that involves any sort of hosting, you have to implicitly trust them.

00:40:42   So you have to trust Dropbox, you have to trust Apple, you have to trust Google, and

00:40:45   if that's not, you know, something that you're comfortable with, then that's, you know, that's

00:40:51   fine.

00:40:52   But I mean for me personally, I really do, you know, put a lot of trust in Google.

00:40:56   I don't mind if their algorithms go through my email, I don't mind if their algorithms

00:41:00   go through my photos.

00:41:02   Because I know at that scale you can't have a human being sitting there and going, "Oh,

00:41:05   yes, interesting.

00:41:06   What did Russell talk about today?

00:41:08   Page, page, page."

00:41:10   It's just not a thing that worries me.

00:41:12   And I mean if it is something that worries you personally, then that's fine.

00:41:16   You don't have to use it.

00:41:17   Yeah, I feel the same.

00:41:19   And I also, I spoke about this on Upgrade recently.

00:41:24   I feel utility in this stuff.

00:41:26   And it's even like in the interview, Bradley Horowitz is talking about, let's say for example

00:41:31   in the future they find some way that they're happy with to give this data in some form

00:41:39   to companies.

00:41:40   Let's say Tesla need to make a product recall.

00:41:43   They can contact you directly because they can find out you own a Tesla because of your

00:41:48   photo data.

00:41:49   And he's saying, "Look, we have the proper controls and checks and all that kind of stuff

00:41:52   imbalance and to make sure it's all okay and that the users find it.

00:41:56   He's speaking kind of... it sounds like a little off the cuff but it probably

00:42:01   isn't. But the idea of like that of course they'll make sure that

00:42:05   people know what they're doing. Because this is the type of thing that

00:42:08   if Google got silly about the company would shut down because they would be

00:42:13   taken through every single court on the planet. If they just start selling

00:42:17   people's photo data. There is a way to do this properly and I

00:42:23   believe that they would do it properly. And people have been saying

00:42:27   that this is like, and I think Google has said this as well, this is Gmail for

00:42:31   photos and I am so on board with that as an idea for what this is. It just feels

00:42:37   like that. This is just like doing for photos what Gmail did for email. It's

00:42:42   just is like just an end-to-end solution it's simple and you have unlimited

00:42:47   storage. I am finding something weird at the moment it's probably to do with my

00:42:50   setup where for some... I don't understand what is happening on my phone on my iPhone I'm

00:42:54   seeing duplicate photos but not on the web so something as weird is happening

00:42:57   on my iPhone I need to diagnose but I think that's because I kind of have my

00:43:02   photos rooting in and out again but I'll work that out later but they look it's

00:43:06   perfectly fine on the on the Mac. But I'm excited about this. I'm happy that

00:43:12   there is a simple solution that I get utility out of from a company that is

00:43:16   not going to shut this down. Yeah I mean I'm the same I just hope that yeah

00:43:22   the curse of connected doesn't strike again because I mean you guys are a bit

00:43:26   infamous for this. You know that is a long-running joke of the show but there

00:43:31   was a point of this Steven that I saw I think you make on Twitter this week

00:43:34   that somebody was like, "Oh, but Google have a history of shutting stuff down," which they do.

00:43:39   Yeah, someone asked me that. And people always say, "Well, Google Reader..." Yes, Google does

00:43:48   do that, but I wouldn't worry about that with Photos. Photos is a need that everybody has.

00:43:54   Only we care about RSS services. I think this is clearly something here to stay,

00:44:02   Not only because everyone has photos, but especially if you know

00:44:04   If you can install it on iOS or Android or an Android if it's automatic where I can just have my photos backed up to

00:44:11   This thing automatically like that's gonna be such a value to so many people. I really I

00:44:16   Don't remember. I don't remember who tweeted a couple people did actually I don't really worry about that with with Google stuff

00:44:22   Yes, they shut stuff down sometimes but it's a they always give you a way to get your data back

00:44:27   their Google takeout is really good and it's

00:44:31   it's sort of too big and too important for them to brush this aside in two years.

00:44:37   Because I think there was something that you said which I liked which is

00:44:44   like photos are just they are part of every big company. Right, I mean

00:44:50   Apple has their photos platform, Google has theirs, you can do stuff with

00:44:54   OneDrive, Microsoft, Dropbox of course has carousel. I mean any big

00:45:00   Amazon photos, I mean any big like platform company you can think of is

00:45:04   doing something in this space that they can't they can't afford not to at this

00:45:07   point. So I would I wouldn't let that worry your your sweet head.

00:45:12   Yeah I think that's the same. I think that you know as integral as you know

00:45:16   email is to our lives now I think photos has become the same thing and I think

00:45:21   you know big companies like Apple, Google, Microsoft, you know Dropbox they all

00:45:24   realize that. This is definitely not some you know 20% project like Google

00:45:29   reader was so I think this is here to stay you know for the long run.

00:45:33   Russell thank you so much for joining us. Where can people find you on the

00:45:37   internet? They can find me in San Francisco. Come and say hi while I'm here

00:45:41   but seriously you can find me @RustyShelf on the Twitters and you can

00:45:47   see stuff about our company at ShiftyJelly.com. Awesome. Thanks so much for

00:45:52   joining us. Thanks for having me. Right let me just take a last break for today

00:45:57   and then we can get into talking about some WWDC predictions before we head into

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00:49:40   so much to hover for sponsoring this week's episode. So let's talk about

00:49:47   Dub-Dub huh? Please stop. So we want to do some WWDC predictions. Can I start? Yes you please go

00:49:55   first and then I am going to play I'm gonna read Federico's and

00:49:59   simultaneously pull his apart as I read them. It's gonna be great. Yeah so whilst

00:50:03   Federico couldn't be here he provided us with all of his predictions but I have

00:50:08   some of my own. But I wanted to just get out there because one day I'm gonna get

00:50:11   something right and then it's gonna be awesome. So the only really

00:50:15   strong one for me is I think that we're gonna see a complete overhaul of

00:50:20   notifications. I think that today widgets will be more

00:50:25   powerful, there will be some rethinking and some extending and what

00:50:29   they can and can't do. I think that we're gonna see notifications overhauled in

00:50:33   general, like better and more actionable notifications, maybe more button

00:50:38   choices, more stuff that can be activated about having to open the app to do it,

00:50:44   right? It can just be done and it happens in the background. Maybe as well allowing

00:50:48   messaging apps to use the quick replies, like so Slack could use that for example

00:50:53   which would be awesome. I think that we're gonna see better notification

00:50:57   settings for apps, I spoke about this a couple of weeks ago, like the global

00:51:00   settings stuff, I think we're gonna see that. And also some more APIs for

00:51:04   allowing granular notification support to help enhance the Apple Watch so you

00:51:09   could have certain notifications sent to certain places and you could choose those

00:51:14   in your apps of choice. I think we are going to see a music streaming service. I

00:51:19   think that's gonna be a thing that happens and that's gonna be great. I

00:51:23   think that's a pretty obvious one. I think we're only gonna see an Apple TV

00:51:26   announcement if there'll be some content deals as well, some like additional cool

00:51:30   stuff that we're gonna see on stage or just stuff that nobody really cares

00:51:33   about but they're gonna do it anyway like you know they're gonna get some

00:51:36   more streaming services or something like that I think we're gonna see some

00:51:39   more of that kind of stuff that goes along with it maybe it'll be some big

00:51:43   video games or something but I think that Apple TV will come with some other

00:51:47   flashy presentations or announcements and but I think the thing that will get

00:51:51   the most on stage time at this keynote is going to be watch OS 2.0 I think out

00:51:56   of OS X iOS and the watch OS I think that they're gonna devote the most time

00:52:01   to showing us the new features of 2.0 and also some examples of the types of

00:52:06   apps that can be built with the native SDK.

00:52:09   I agree on both points. You know notifications have always been vaguely

00:52:15   frustrating on iOS and now you know you can, if you're an iMessage, you can

00:52:21   reply and you can dictate or type right into the notification drop-down little

00:52:26   guy but you can if it's something like slack or or email or something like that

00:52:32   so it's a degree it's it's sort of time to open it up a little bit more and you

00:52:38   know I think overall you know people say they want like universal VIP which I

00:52:43   don't think is really possible

00:52:45   I mean how does how does iOS know you know Myke you're an email VIP how do

00:52:50   they tie that to Twitter and slack and other services but I do think a more

00:52:54   common more you know powerful way to break these things down into sort of

00:53:01   bite-sized chunks makes makes a lot of sense well I think some of the universal

00:53:05   VIP stuff comes from like don't have like a friends list on the watch and VIP

00:53:11   and that kind of stuff like give me you know you unify that at least you know

00:53:17   right we'll see obviously watch OS is gonna get a lot of time they they have

00:53:23   basically already said that native apps will be part of the keynote on

00:53:31   Monday. So yeah, I think that's all. I think those are probably two really

00:53:36   safe bets. Federico had that stuff, you know, access to the sensors and

00:53:45   hardware which Apple said the SDK will have, that sort of thing. Apple will make it

00:53:53   easy to migrate from watch kit to watch OS SDK.

00:53:55   I'm not so sure he's right about that.

00:53:56   I don't think Apple really cares

00:53:58   if it takes you more time to rewrite your watch app.

00:54:00   - Especially if they announce it now for like the fall.

00:54:03   - I think that's definitely the case.

00:54:05   I think it's definitely alongside iOS 9 in the fall.

00:54:10   You know.

00:54:12   - It's interesting that he doesn't think

00:54:14   there'll be a native SDK for the Apple TV.

00:54:17   Like that seems like something

00:54:18   that they would definitely do because of games.

00:54:20   - Yeah, I think so.

00:54:24   And maybe games, on iOS games have always had

00:54:29   like weird status where they can run code bases

00:54:33   that aren't Apple, there's always this weird muddy water

00:54:38   with games and that may continue to be the case on the watch.

00:54:41   I have yet to find a reason that I would want to play

00:54:43   a game on my watch but maybe I'm the minority there.

00:54:49   - So yeah, so, watch apps for sure,

00:54:53   watch OS 2.0 or whatever it will be called for sure.

00:54:57   You know, new OS X, San Francisco font

00:54:59   showing up on iOS and OS X.

00:55:02   - How do you feel about that by the way?

00:55:04   - I'm not thrilled they're changing it again on the Mac

00:55:07   or that it's rumored.

00:55:08   I do think San Francisco is really nice looking

00:55:11   and really easy to read, which I would appreciate.

00:55:14   You know, like I said, it's weird that if they do it

00:55:19   that Yosemite is the only version of OSN

00:55:21   that was using Helvetica for the system font.

00:55:24   But I could see why Apple wants to do it.

00:55:26   And for a company that cares about every single detail,

00:55:29   not having their own typeface in their UI

00:55:33   has always seemed strange to me.

00:55:35   So it seems like it's time.

00:55:37   It's just like, why didn't you do this a year ago?

00:55:39   Like why did you always know Helvetica

00:55:43   was gonna be a stepping stone in OS 10?

00:55:45   Or did you not think San Francisco was gonna be ready?

00:55:48   you know, or what I think actually happened,

00:55:51   if the watch was actually supposed to ship in the fall

00:55:54   and it slipped, my guess is that Yosemite

00:55:57   was supposed to use San Francisco initially.

00:56:00   - Ooh, that's, I was just thinking like,

00:56:02   why did they do it?

00:56:04   That is smart.

00:56:06   - And when they couldn't ship the watch,

00:56:07   they didn't want to tip their hand with the font

00:56:11   or with the typeface, and so they went with Helvetica

00:56:14   as a stand-in, which is fine, like,

00:56:17   I have a laundry list of problems with Yosemite's UI.

00:56:20   Helvetica is not on that list.

00:56:22   I really like it as a system font for the most part.

00:56:25   So maybe they were just sort of backed into a corner

00:56:28   with the timing.

00:56:29   'Cause you know, it's a lot of moving parts, right?

00:56:31   Like you're not gonna hold off your OS X redesign

00:56:34   because your watch isn't ready to ship, so.

00:56:36   Federica also says,

00:56:39   and I agree more iCloud drive presence in the Finder.

00:56:42   Right now you have that in the sidebar,

00:56:45   but it's sort of janky and like it's hard to understand

00:56:48   why it's different and it's hard,

00:56:51   my big promise is it's hard to understand

00:56:52   sync status of anything.

00:56:54   I think it's just they need to continue

00:56:56   to make that clearer.

00:56:57   What is going on in iCloud Drive?

00:56:59   What's there, what's not?

00:57:00   What is the state of this document or this folder?

00:57:03   And he says, Siri and Control Center come to OS X.

00:57:07   You know, it'd be nice,

00:57:09   I don't know if this is the year or not.

00:57:10   I don't know why you would need Control Center.

00:57:12   I don't know what it would do for you

00:57:13   because you have the menu bar

00:57:15   and you have media keys on your keyboard.

00:57:17   They basically cover things like Bluetooth, Wi-Fi,

00:57:20   you know, power stuff, volume.

00:57:23   But Siri, I think it's probably time.

00:57:26   There have actually been times where I wish I had Siri

00:57:28   on the Mac if my hands were full and I could just say,

00:57:31   you know, ahoy computer phone

00:57:32   and have Siri do something for me, but.

00:57:34   I'm gonna come back to iOS if that's okay.

00:57:41   Federico, is that okay with you?

00:57:42   Oh, we can't answer.

00:57:44   - C, C, he said C.

00:57:46   - So, he says other stuff, he says Swift 2.0,

00:57:50   I don't know if it's like air quotes 2.0,

00:57:52   but I think Swift will see, if not keynote time,

00:57:55   I think definitely time in the State of the Union,

00:57:57   which if you're not familiar with this,

00:57:59   the State of the Union is the keynote Apple gives

00:58:02   Monday afternoon, sort of after the public keynote,

00:58:07   there's a break, and then State of the Union,

00:58:08   it's available to developer members,

00:58:12   so I'm a member so I can watch this on my iPad later.

00:58:15   And it's sort of a--

00:58:16   - I think it's everyone now though,

00:58:17   that last year that was one of the videos

00:58:19   that anybody could watch.

00:58:20   - Was it? Okay.

00:58:21   - Yeah, it was.

00:58:22   - But, so anyway, so the State of the Union

00:58:25   is a, it's sort of half, we are unpacking the keynote

00:58:29   into more detail and like, this is some of the technical

00:58:31   stuff going on behind the scenes.

00:58:33   I mean, the keynote is designed for everybody,

00:58:34   this is sort of one step closer to like,

00:58:37   you're in a, you know, in an actual WWDC session.

00:58:41   - Yeah, when we watched it last year,

00:58:42   it was the first time we ever watched it.

00:58:44   There are parts of it that I thought were really interesting.

00:58:46   There are parts of it where I wanted to blow my brains out.

00:58:48   'Cause for me, it was like, oh my God,

00:58:50   he's writing code on stage,

00:58:51   I don't understand what is happening.

00:58:55   And it was horrible.

00:58:56   And watching it in the room with people that understood it,

00:58:59   they're like, oh, look at that.

00:59:00   And I'm like, ah, it's just words.

00:59:02   Words I don't even understand.

00:59:04   - Yeah, so I think Swift might show up there.

00:59:10   I think you probably actually will.

00:59:12   New remote app for the Apple Music Service and Apple TV.

00:59:15   Yeah, maybe.

00:59:16   Demos of iWork apps, like maybe,

00:59:20   I don't know if they're gonna do much with iWork or quote.

00:59:23   - Well, there's extensions in iWork apps is what you're saying.

00:59:27   - Oh, I can read.

00:59:28   Yeah, if they do extensions.

00:59:30   And then new parental controls in the iOS,

00:59:35   in iOS and the Mac app storage, I think is definitely huge.

00:59:40   I

00:59:41   Think overall we've talked about we've talked at great length on this show about the problems of the App Store

00:59:46   You talked a lot about it on behind the app, you know, I definitely would like to see this sort of like curated

00:59:53   Idea get spread to the App Store and better control and and all this stuff

01:00:00   I think you know do we see is the time for Apple to do this?

01:00:02   It's kind of like if this stuff doesn't happen next week. It's gonna wait for a year

01:00:05   Apple's not going to roll out, I don't think, a large App Store change in October.

01:00:10   Right, like this is the time to have everyone's attention and everyone's

01:00:15   sitting there looking at the stage. This is when you make those announcements and

01:00:18   when you make those changes. So some of this stuff, if we don't see it, it's just

01:00:22   it's not in the cards for, you know, 2015-2016. So anyways, you want to go through

01:00:30   some of this iOS stuff I feel like I've been rambling iOS iOS 9 yes so one of

01:00:37   the main things that the Federico I know really wants and I'm not convinced we'll

01:00:44   see it demoed WWDC is iPad multitasking so like split screen views or some

01:00:53   additions to the iPad which show it's great for multitasking I think that is

01:00:58   possible but I think that they might wait until the next iPads who knows but

01:01:02   it would be nice to see it there I wonder if the mini will get that stuff

01:01:08   I don't know like depends what they're gonna do but it would be be interesting

01:01:13   to see something like that make me might make me want to use my iPad in in

01:01:17   different sort of situations you know because it kind of will bridge the gap a

01:01:20   little bit more say I want to do some research or something and write some

01:01:23   notes because I would just like to be able to do that it might be nice to be

01:01:27   through an iPad or something do you think we're gonna see that? I think if we

01:01:31   do it's gonna be sort of like the split view controller stuff or like very

01:01:37   clearly Apple is putting things in place because there's going to be a bigger

01:01:40   phone but they can't say there's going to be a bigger phone and so it may be

01:01:44   that like if you sort of put the pieces together in all the sessions like this

01:01:49   is clearly coming but I agree with you I have a tendency to think that this might

01:01:54   be one of those things where it's sort of held for later unless iOS 9 is not as

01:01:59   wide-reaching as some people we know might like it to be and this is sort of

01:02:04   like the big feature at that point I think we see it on stage but I think it

01:02:08   just kind of depends on the positioning of it. A home app to manage home kit

01:02:13   devices I think that's pretty solid now especially today saw a bunch of people

01:02:18   reporting Federico had another write-up about this he writes a lot at the beach

01:02:21   that's that's what I've learned today that there's there are some homekit

01:02:27   devices now popping up so that's that's the thing that's happening so there

01:02:33   will probably be more about that on stage keyboard tweaks including a

01:02:37   redesigned shift key I don't know about the shift key I don't know for two years

01:02:42   right yeah I feel like you're kind of all in on it now unless Apple were

01:02:49   looking for like a quick chair on stage. Yeah like "hey we redesigned the shift key"

01:02:56   You know where fist pump guy jumps up you know. If fist pump guy jumps up for the shift key then

01:03:01   we greatly underestimated the power of the shift key design.

01:03:08   We have, I've seen people saying about this like a Google Now type Siri so it's more

01:03:17   visual and spotlight based and this would come along with, as Sepp Ferrico is mentioning,

01:03:22   initial Siri and spotlight APIs because you'd be able to tie backwards and forwards for them.

01:03:28   Which would make sense, you know, I think it would be interesting to see that. I don't know

01:03:34   what Apple would be able to do here because they're not Google and they just don't have

01:03:41   the data that Google has to be able to build Google Now. Yeah, unless this is searching just

01:03:46   what's on device.

01:03:48   - That seems like it would take a lot of power,

01:03:51   processing power to do.

01:03:53   - That seems like a very Apple thing to do.

01:03:56   Or it may be that, you know, it may be the time

01:03:59   where they say, look, if you have iCloud

01:04:00   and you want the stuff, you can log into it.

01:04:02   But maybe it's only, maybe it's only if you have iCloud

01:04:06   and not if you use Gmail or Google Apps like we do

01:04:09   or something like that.

01:04:09   So I agree with you, like this would be really nice

01:04:12   and there's a lot of things about Google now

01:04:13   that I really like.

01:04:14   But I don't know if Apple has the keys to the car

01:04:18   with this sort of stuff because they,

01:04:20   because of their stance on this stuff.

01:04:22   I don't know, it'd be great, and it would be great

01:04:26   if Siri could go to the next episode,

01:04:30   the next download episode in Overcast, for instance.

01:04:33   And so that sort of stuff I think is more likely

01:04:35   than a Google Now type thing,

01:04:39   'cause I just don't know how Apple solves the data problem.

01:04:43   It seems insurmountable almost.

01:04:46   - I mean, I feel like if they did have some API stuff,

01:04:50   you could have apps throwing information out

01:04:53   for Apple to collect, but even in that instance,

01:04:57   it still feels like it would be very simplified

01:04:59   because it's gonna be like that.

01:05:01   I would be very interested to see

01:05:02   if they're able to pull something like this off.

01:05:04   I feel like this would be something that Apple would do

01:05:06   to try and catch up to Google,

01:05:08   but Google will always be ahead in this

01:05:10   because this is just what Google do.

01:05:14   This is what they make, you know?

01:05:16   They make little robots that search inside of information

01:05:19   and present it to you in different ways.

01:05:21   But it does feel like it's something

01:05:23   that Siri should be doing,

01:05:25   because Cortana does a little bit

01:05:26   of this kind of stuff as well.

01:05:27   So it's time for Siri to pick up this kind of intelligence.

01:05:31   Enhancements to the Mail app,

01:05:35   which include extensions on iCloud Drive.

01:05:37   This one feels like it has to exist.

01:05:40   Not that I care because I use third-party mail apps but this one needs to exist in mail.app.

01:05:47   It's kind of ridiculous that it wasn't there already.

01:05:50   A couple of quick ones, new health app visualisations.

01:05:54   Yeah, I suppose they'll do more there.

01:05:57   Find My Watch, which you know, they have to find my iPhone on the watch.

01:06:01   Find My Watch would make a lot of sense.

01:06:04   Beats music streaming with popular celebrity DJs.

01:06:08   Maybe this might be like Tim Cook's celebrity moment, you know?

01:06:12   Here is the DJs that we're talking about this week.

01:06:14   I do think we're going to see the music stuff.

01:06:17   So I actually thought a lot about this today.

01:06:23   You can think about WWDC in two ways.

01:06:25   You can think about it being the developer conference where Apple does things like unveil

01:06:30   Swift like they did last year.

01:06:32   And they showed code during the keynote on stage.

01:06:38   I think that's the primary way that I think about W2C.

01:06:43   Maybe because I'm there and I'm friends

01:06:44   with a bunch of developers and I care about that stuff.

01:06:47   But W2C is one of Apple's only media times

01:06:52   throughout the year.

01:06:53   And so something like the music streaming service,

01:06:56   if that is a completely consumer oriented,

01:07:01   not open to developers type thing.

01:07:04   And so I wonder, do they show it now

01:07:06   or do they, or is this, what I'm increasingly thinking is,

01:07:10   does this get bundled in with a phone announcement

01:07:12   in the fall?

01:07:13   You know, Apple for a long time did the music events

01:07:17   in like September and October,

01:07:18   kind of flip-flopped and moved around over the years

01:07:20   with iPods, and they still do some of that.

01:07:23   They had Bondo and Tim Cook doing the weird finger thing,

01:07:25   which I'm now doing with my two hands, and I feel weird.

01:07:28   Maybe beats and stuff, maybe that gets pushed

01:07:34   to the fall when it's more of a consumer focus.

01:07:38   I don't know, and they could do this on Monday

01:07:39   and it not be weird at all, but I just,

01:07:41   I have this feeling that it might not be next week

01:07:44   and it might be in the fall instead.

01:07:46   - No, I think that if Apple are really going

01:07:50   for bug fixes and stability improvements,

01:07:53   then that's why they do the music streaming service

01:07:56   because they have a user-facing feature

01:07:57   to talk about at WWDC.

01:07:59   - I mean, maybe.

01:08:01   I mean there's that has just as much possibility happening as my thing I think I think it ever also

01:08:07   We're saying and the rumors are that this launches before the next iPhone and if they wait for the new iPhones

01:08:13   That's longer than the new iPhone

01:08:15   Because they did like the redesign music app is in 8.4

01:08:19   Right, which is similarly we're gonna see next week. So

01:08:23   Very has also said that there could be a workout app on the iPhone with workout types that are supported on the watch

01:08:30   I don't know. I feel like maybe but I feel like that would be taking away a

01:08:33   Feature

01:08:36   Agreed that the watch has you're taking away less of the watches reason to exist if you put the work app on the iPhone

01:08:42   I agree, and I think it's you know, I really like having the activity app. So if you have a watch

01:08:48   Activity app shows up on your phone

01:08:51   automagically and it has got the rings and you can look at the you know

01:08:56   Awards and everything and I really like that app and actually like the way it looks is like the first app with a dark

01:09:02   UI that I've really have ever liked on iOS

01:09:05   But I have a tendency to agree with you that like

01:09:10   Showing activity on the phone is a is a status report, right? It's showing me what I've done

01:09:15   So if my watch is not on me, I can kind of see where I am throughout the day

01:09:19   But it's sort of a it's a read-only type thing

01:09:22   I can't you can't go into activity as far as I know and like manually into a workout you have to do that on the

01:09:26   watch and so I don't know like why would you take the sort of one of the primary

01:09:31   things of the watch and bring it to the iPhone at least so early like I could see

01:09:35   this making sense down the road I think right now it's still really early in

01:09:39   this in this products life and I don't know if you want to take out a big you

01:09:45   know a big leg out of it out of its out of its stool quite yet so last couple of

01:09:51   things are some changes to the extensions that go beyond the share

01:09:55   So, you know, like having on the copy and paste menu, for example.

01:09:58   Maybe Force Touch will be something that brings this in the next devices.

01:10:03   And, you know, leading in and touching on what we were talking about with Google Photos earlier,

01:10:08   better faces and places support in the Photos app for iOS.

01:10:12   Yep, I think in a lot of ways there's a lot of work to be done in Photos on iOS.

01:10:19   Like if you have iCloud Photo Library and you open the Photos app or the photo picker,

01:10:24   the photo picker your phone basically just sits there for eight seconds ten

01:10:27   seconds while it is doing something hopefully. You know I think this is one

01:10:33   of those weird things where photos sort of came out mid-cycle and I feel like

01:10:36   there's a lot of rough edges still in in the iOS implementation of it so I think

01:10:42   that but I think photos are gonna get pretty constant attention for a while

01:10:46   till they get all this stuff worked out. So thank you Federico for sending us in

01:10:51   your list and I like that you know because he's not here we can go no not happening.

01:10:56   Yeah so the uh we didn't talk about the the Apple TV thing I do tend to think that new

01:11:06   Apple hardware is on the horizon I I think that it will come hand in hand with either

01:11:14   a native SDK or Apple's Web TV service.

01:11:17   Like the the the Apple TV is basically

01:11:22   an A5 I think it's 1080p. I've got one

01:11:27   it's it's a fine little box. I mean it

01:11:29   can be it can be buggy but the hardware

01:11:31   seems it does what it needs to do you

01:11:34   know it's it could be faster but it's

01:11:36   not I don't want to like hit it with a

01:11:39   hammer every time I use it. So I don't

01:11:43   know what they gain from like releasing hardware now and it being another six

01:11:50   months or the three months or the nine months until there's software to kind of

01:11:54   like use the additional hardware. So my thought is when Apple TV gets a refresh

01:11:58   it will be hardware and software at the same time and my guess is that some

01:12:02   software will only be only be tied like to that hardware so hey the Apple TV web

01:12:10   TV streaming service thing is out and you have to have a new Apple TV to play it because

01:12:14   the as Joe Steele points out in the chat room the only single core A5 thing ever built can't

01:12:19   run it.

01:12:21   So that to me is seems like a lock and step type thing and I don't think that's next week.

01:12:27   I think a lot of people want it to be next week but I don't think it is.

01:12:31   I think there's not enough smoke to prove there's fire there quite yet for me.

01:12:37   - So you think no new Apple TV?

01:12:40   - I think the Apple TV will go,

01:12:42   if it is mentioned it would be very minor.

01:12:47   I don't think there'll be a revision,

01:12:49   I don't think there'll be a software update.

01:12:51   We'll see.

01:12:52   The first 30 minutes will be about the Apple TV now

01:12:54   because I've said that.

01:12:55   I think the other hardware thing to consider

01:12:59   is the Mac Pro which has been out for almost two years now.

01:13:03   Or maybe two years since they announced it

01:13:06   in like about a year and a half maybe since they shipped it.

01:13:08   Maybe some of the chat room can correct me on that.

01:13:10   It's been a while, it has not had a harder update.

01:13:13   And I'm not, I don't follow the Xeon Intel drama

01:13:16   as close as Marco does.

01:13:19   So I'm not even sure if a Mac Pro update is possible

01:13:22   at this point, but it does feel like that thing

01:13:25   is maybe time for some sort of revision to the Mac Pro.

01:13:30   Even if it's the same chips, you know, GPU,

01:13:33   or at least a configuration change,

01:13:36   It just seems like that's gotten a little stale again.

01:13:39   And if there's any time to do a Mac Pro update,

01:13:41   it is at WWDC.

01:13:43   So I would like to see them do something with that.

01:13:46   - Cool.

01:13:48   - That's it.

01:13:49   iPod shuffle, yes or no?

01:13:51   - Oh, definitely.

01:13:52   - Definitely.

01:13:53   You heard it here first and probably only.

01:13:55   (laughing)

01:13:58   Yeah, it'll be good.

01:13:59   - I think that's about it.

01:14:01   Right, so we'll be there next week.

01:14:02   We'll be recording on Tuesday.

01:14:04   - Yes.

01:14:06   From our hotel room. From our hotel room, yep, and so you'll be able to hear that. We'll have

01:14:10   coverage on upgrade on Monday, so if you want to hear mine and Jason's opinions a

01:14:16   couple of hours probably after the keynote we'll have that up on upgrade

01:14:20   and then we'll be ready for some more considered thought after thinking about

01:14:24   things, finding out some more information, we'll be talking more about it on

01:14:27   Tuesday on Connected, so you can tune in we're gonna have a bunch of coverage

01:14:31   next week. Which I think you'll really enjoy, there'll be a few of us there, a few of the team, the

01:14:34   Relay people are going to be in San Francisco so we'll have some stuff there and hopefully

01:14:39   we'll be able to provide you with some great coverage next week of WWDC.

01:14:43   So I hope that you'll tune in and keep it locked to Relay FM, we've got some great stuff

01:14:48   coming that I think you guys are going to love.

01:14:51   If you want to find our show notes for this week you should head over to relay.fm/connected/42

01:14:59   probably at that page you will find the answer to everything. I think is that

01:15:05   something about 42 right? About answers and questions and that kind of thing.

01:15:09   If you want it you can find it there. Thanks again to our sponsors this week, our good

01:15:13   friends over at Lynda, OmniFocus and Hover. If you want to find myself online

01:15:17   I am @imike, I am YKE. Steven is @ismh. Our absent co-host who is probably buried

01:15:25   in sand right now is @vitiici, V I T I C C I, Federico writes @maxstories.net and Stephen

01:15:31   writes @512pixels.net and I host a cavalcade of shows at Relay.fm of which a show is a

01:15:39   part. So thank you so much for listening and we'll be back next time. Until then, say goodbye

01:15:44   Mr Stephen Hackett. Adios.

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