Nose Scrolling: I Do Not Condone This


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:07   From Relay FM, this is Connected, episode number 40. Today's show is brought to you by

00:00:14   igloo, an intranet you'll actually like, lynda.com where you can instantly stream

00:00:18   thousands of courses created by industry experts, and PDF-Pen-ScanPlus from SMILE,

00:00:23   which is the app for mobile scanning and OCR. My name is Myke Hurley.

00:00:29   Today I am joined by the editor-in-chief and the owner of my heart, Mr Federico

00:00:34   TG! Wow, I keep getting upgrades. Yep, I didn't even say the name of your website,

00:00:40   I just needed to get, you know, you are both, you are the editor-in-chief and owner of my heart,

00:00:44   as well as MacStories. Well, I've always wanted to be your editor-in-chief.

00:00:49   Not as much as the owner of your heart, but I want to edit you. I want to, you know?

00:00:58   I could probably do with some editing, like right now.

00:01:00   See, there are, you know, every time we do the show, I feel like I need to keep making

00:01:05   you more and more grand, you know, so...

00:01:08   I wonder how long this can go, you know?

00:01:13   But it's nice that you have these introductions for me.

00:01:17   I appreciate it.

00:01:18   Hey Myke.

00:01:19   Hey buddy.

00:01:20   How are you doing?

00:01:21   I'm good, it's just me and you today.

00:01:22   Yeah, yeah.

00:01:23   American friend has been abducted by a group of apologeniuses, so he's unfortunately unable to

00:01:34   join us because they tasked him with having to rewrite the K-BASE. Well they saw his new series,

00:01:44   this new K-BASE series that Steven's doing, and they're like "we need to make sure we shake all

00:01:48   this knowledge out of his head. So they've stolen him and for a week he's

00:01:54   going to just be like mined for kbase information and then maybe we'll get him

00:01:58   back at the end of it. Maybe, we'll see. So Myke you will have to do usually

00:02:05   what Steven does, the follow-up. Yes, so I'm gonna take care of follow-up. We

00:02:10   actually have some special edition extended follow-up this week. We're gonna

00:02:14   have Sam Sophis, the developer of Redacted joining us in a little bit. So that's

00:02:21   gonna be a lot of fun, so that'll be some extra special follow-up, so you can

00:02:24   look forward to that. But we do have our regular old follow-up first. In the

00:02:31   phenomenon that is nose tapping, it continues to...

00:02:34   Come on, phenomenon. I don't know if it's a phenomenon.

00:02:37   It is a phenomenon. It continues to sweep the globe.

00:02:41   Oh my god.

00:02:42   I keep seeing more people referencing it, I see more and more praise I receive every

00:02:46   day for Rico from the world.

00:02:48   It's true.

00:02:49   Wow, look.

00:02:50   Yeah.

00:02:51   We're sent many links of people, you know, when they find nose tapping referenced in other

00:02:55   bodies of work.

00:02:57   We did receive a tweet from Kim today, or a couple of days ago, it says that he's actually

00:03:04   tried nose scrolling the Digital Crown.

00:03:07   I do not condone this as a thing.

00:03:10   I have used my nose to return to the home, but I don't like doing that.

00:03:16   Basically once you use your nose for one...

00:03:18   Wait, wait, what did you do?

00:03:19   Sometimes, like, you know, I want to go back to the home screen, so I've like pushed the

00:03:23   digital crown of my nose.

00:03:24   I don't like that, that's not...

00:03:25   With the side of your nose.

00:03:27   The thing is, once you have tried a form of interaction, just go with all of them, you

00:03:33   know?

00:03:34   Yeah, I can see that, yeah.

00:03:35   I mean there's people like you, people like to do a lot of things with their nose, it seems.

00:03:41   Yep, and tapping your Apple Watch is the best thing you can possibly do.

00:03:47   I still think this is crazy, but I know that there's people like you out there,

00:03:52   so it's not like it's just you and I don't know a bunch of other guys.

00:03:56   It's maybe at least a hundred people, let's say, maybe even more.

00:04:01   Way more.

00:04:02   But let's say, I don't know, a thousand people around the world do this kind of thing.

00:04:07   You should start some sort of group.

00:04:11   I think nose tap mania is into the millions now?

00:04:14   Sure buddy.

00:04:16   But fine.

00:04:18   Ben wanted to write in to clarify something.

00:04:21   If you remember last week when you guys were saying that we were crazy because we drive on the left hand side of the road.

00:04:28   It's not that you're crazy, it's that you're the only ones in the entire planet doing that.

00:04:33   There was something that Steven said, like saying "oh but you're closer to the central divide" and

00:04:38   I was like "I don't really understand what he means" and Ben has written in to clarify,

00:04:42   because he's actually put the thought into it that I couldn't muster,

00:04:44   obviously our driver's sides are like diff- they're swapped, right?

00:04:50   Oh yeah, sure, yeah.

00:04:51   Yeah, so you know, we drive- drivers sit on the right of the car and we drive on the left side.

00:04:58   Yeah, see, that's one of the things that I've always wanted to know from a British person.

00:05:05   Because to me, it's just natural to assume that the passenger seat is on the right side

00:05:12   of the driver.

00:05:14   So for people like you, when you think of the concept of the passenger seat, you think

00:05:19   of the passenger as being on the left.

00:05:21   Yeah, the front left.

00:05:22   So I always...

00:05:23   This is crazy.

00:05:24   This is like Australian.

00:05:25   People from Australia, they have Christmas and it's like summer.

00:05:30   This is insane.

00:05:31   This is like a basic difference in a very common idea that people from two different

00:05:40   countries can have profoundly different representations of this idea.

00:05:47   It's crazy to me.

00:05:48   Like this is the stuff that I keep obsessing about.

00:05:51   Passenger seats.

00:05:54   a real concern of mine. Whenever I'm in America I always accidentally get to get

00:06:00   in the driver's side of the car when I'm a passenger. People look at me funny.

00:06:08   What are you doing buddy? I want to drive. Like taxi cab drivers give me an

00:06:13   interesting confused look. Regarding date formats a few people sent in to us this

00:06:21   tweet which is a quite a nice illustration if you remember last week

00:06:25   we were talking about the month month day day year year format that Americans

00:06:30   use you know month before the day this is like people sent us in somebody's

00:06:35   created this tweet a couple of days ago basically showing that the parts of the

00:06:40   world that use that format so month and day is just America the rest of the

00:06:44   world uses day in their month which makes it me even more sad you know it

00:06:49   It makes it even better because they truly believe they are the chosen ones for this

00:06:54   date format.

00:06:58   See it's just perfect.

00:07:00   So let's make them believe that they're using the right format.

00:07:07   It just makes me sad.

00:07:09   It is amazing, honestly.

00:07:13   Do we, we're gonna get so many angry tweets and emails about, you know, especially because

00:07:20   Steven is not on the show to kind of guide us through American traditions.

00:07:26   I feel like we're, the Europeans can, can, you know, say this kind of stuff because Steven

00:07:31   is not here.

00:07:32   So, hey, it's cool.

00:07:35   In regards to me and you were talking over, I say talking over, I think it was probably

00:07:40   an argument about old apps and having them removed from the App Store.

00:07:46   Quite a lot of interesting follow-up came through from this of people that disagreed

00:07:50   with me or agreed with me or vice versa for you about the way that apps should be displayed

00:07:57   in the App Store after a certain period of time.

00:08:00   I think one of the best pieces of follow-up on a possible solution for this came from

00:08:04   Nash, who said maybe instead of removing apps from the App Store they go into a section,

00:08:10   an archived section that's kind of like a graveyard because people were saying

00:08:14   like you know if I have this old device how can I get apps for it and I mean my

00:08:17   feeling is you know at some point you just have to get rid of them just just

00:08:21   like cut them out and I know that you don't like the idea of that so maybe

00:08:26   there could be a place where these old apps go maybe you can only see them if

00:08:30   you have an old device or I don't know but yeah that could be an interesting

00:08:35   way of doing it well it's like when you when you think about for example one

00:08:39   Nintendo is doing on their eShop, they have sections for different consoles.

00:08:48   And of course the stuff for the 3DS and the Wii U is front and center in the eShop, but

00:08:54   you can also scroll a bit and you get to the old DS, WiiWare sections, and those are old

00:09:02   software, it's no longer supported, but you can still browse, you can still see stuff,

00:09:07   maybe you can still download stuff. So it wouldn't be too dissimilar as a concept.

00:09:14   Of course the newest stuff that is updated all the time for the latest iOS and OS X,

00:09:20   of course that kind of software is highlighted by Apple more and you can easily find it.

00:09:27   But what if I purposefully want to find an old app from three years ago that never received

00:09:33   an update for some weird reason.

00:09:37   I should be able to and I think that having a special buried section where you can find

00:09:43   these old apps, it's a good compromise.

00:09:46   So thanks for the follow up to neshp, should be the username.

00:09:54   It's a pretty cool username actually.

00:09:56   So thank you.

00:09:58   And then finally in standard follow up this week, Garak wrote in about upgrade pricing

00:10:03   on the Mac App Store and said "I've often wondered why developers don't release their

00:10:06   application as a 1.0 and provide 1.x releases for free as normal in most cases, but then

00:10:14   when they have a big upgrade, why don't they add features in the upgrade as an in-app purchase,

00:10:18   effectively making the 2.0 version of the app as an in-app purchase from the 1.0 version.

00:10:24   It doesn't have to specifically be called version 2, but you get what I mean."

00:10:28   So basically what he's saying is why don't little features and bug fixes and stuff just

00:10:32   as one point x, but then when there's new features, why not do those as an in-app purchase?

00:10:38   And Stephen wrote some notes here which I think me and you both agree with and I kind

00:10:41   of want to go through this.

00:10:42   So the problem with doing this sort of stuff is it can really make the code base quite

00:10:46   complex as you have to try and work out, like the app can have, some users might have these

00:10:52   features, some users might have these features, and it can make things quite difficult.

00:10:56   I think coding an app to have actual app features hidden behind in-app purchase can make things

00:11:03   quite difficult to do.

00:11:05   It can be confusing for users.

00:11:08   And also if somebody wants to do a design change, like an overall design change, a lot

00:11:12   of the time if you're completely overhauling your UI, that's a huge selling point and many

00:11:18   people see that as a time to go to a version 2.

00:11:21   How do you do stuff like that with in-app purchase?

00:11:23   It doesn't really work so well.

00:11:25   So one way that people thought that this stuff was going to get easier was by the ability

00:11:32   to read the receipts of stuff, like in-app purchase receipts or purchasing receipts, but

00:11:37   this is still a problematic mess, as we know from some of our developer friends, and working

00:11:43   that stuff out and being able to read who's purchased what and where and restoring from

00:11:50   previous versions, and when you go into an app and you restore purchases and stuff, all

00:11:53   All of that can still be an absolute mess and whilst it seems like, in theory, a good

00:12:00   thing to do, it is apparently very very difficult to effectively pull off and make it work just

00:12:06   the way that you would want.

00:12:09   One major benefit of having a single version of your app on the App Store would be that

00:12:15   you retain, as a developer, you retain all of your rankings and your position in the

00:12:20   App Store search.

00:12:22   So when you're in steady, if you want to launch a new app, you get to start from scratch.

00:12:26   So you don't have any reviews or rankings and you don't have any, you know, your position

00:12:32   in the App Store search results is lower.

00:12:35   So that's one argument for staying with just one version of the same app over time.

00:12:43   But it gets crazy when you want to do upgrades like major overhauls or UI changes.

00:12:51   Or maybe you want to rewrite the entire code base of your app and you want to hide that

00:12:56   behind an in-app purchase.

00:12:59   It gets too complex and too complicated when you want to account for the different versions

00:13:04   of what a user is using on his device and what if the same user maybe uses the app on

00:13:15   one device, doesn't unlock the in-app purchase on the other device, it gets really complex

00:13:20   and it from a technical perspective and therefore also as a final product on the App Store it

00:13:27   is easier and recommended to, if you want to start from scratch, if you have a major

00:13:32   update to an app, to just have a new version on the App Store.

00:13:36   And so I think that the solution would be to model some kind of upgrade pricing for

00:13:42   companies like OmniGroup for example, kind of like a complete my bundle that works.

00:13:50   So developers including the Omni Group have been trying to use Complete My Bundle to offer

00:13:56   some kind of upgrade pricing and they've run into all sorts of limitations and errors and

00:14:02   confusion.

00:14:03   So it would be something like that, only done for upgrades for really expensive apps and

00:14:10   for companies that want to keep the same customers over 3, 5, 10 years.

00:14:16   Because it's not crazy at this point to believe that the App Store can go on for decades,

00:14:21   because it launched seven years ago.

00:14:24   So it's been quite a few years, and there's companies that want to do business with the

00:14:29   same customers over and over, and definitely using in-app purchases to unlock new features

00:14:36   of the same app is not going to work, I think.

00:14:39   And Joseph Rosenstiel in the chat room has given another good part of this, another problem.

00:14:45   The in-app purchase model like this for a paid app doesn't work for new purchases because

00:14:50   you buy the app and then you have to go and buy more stuff, right?

00:14:53   It's just not a nice way to begin your time with the application.

00:14:59   You buy it when it's at version 3 or whatever.

00:15:05   You go in, you buy it once and then you have to buy like six different in-app purchases

00:15:09   to get it up to the current version.

00:15:12   It just doesn't work very well.

00:15:14   I believe what the internet calls this type of model is Paymium, which is an abomination

00:15:22   of a word, but it exists.

00:15:25   Paymium.

00:15:26   Paymium.

00:15:27   Paymium, all the monies.

00:15:30   It's like pay and opium.

00:15:32   It sounds like paymium.

00:15:33   I don't know.

00:15:34   Sure.

00:15:35   On that note, let's take a quick break and when we come back from this break, we're going

00:15:38   to be joined by Sam Fosofis to talk about Redacted for the Mac.

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00:18:26   supporting this show and all of Relay FM. So we're now joined on Connected by Sam

00:18:32   Sophus who you may remember from last week's episode where we were talking

00:18:35   about Redacted and Sam I believe you listened into the show and you said

00:18:41   you'd like to share some thoughts so we were very happy to ask you to join us on

00:18:46   today's show so thank you so much for joining us.

00:18:47   Yeah thanks for having me.

00:18:49   It's probably been a peculiar couple of weeks for you right?

00:18:53   Yeah for sure.

00:18:54   So for anyone that didn't listen to last week's episode or didn't remember

00:18:59   basically a couple of weeks ago Sam released an app called Redacted onto the

00:19:03   Mac App Store and kind of wrote up some interesting findings about where the app

00:19:08   was sitting in the charts and kind of the revenue that it brought in. So Sam

00:19:14   could you give like a brief kind of what that was on day one like where you were

00:19:19   charted, what those numbers were and kind of talk about how the app is performing

00:19:23   now and if things are going better or worse than before? Sure so by the end of

00:19:29   the first day I was number eight top paid in overall in the US and number one

00:19:38   in graphics and that was only 105 units so it was like I don't know a couple

00:19:46   hundred dollars. I was like really surprised that you know my little app

00:19:50   with a hundred sales could be number eight overall. I wrote a little post

00:19:54   there's just like you know this is crazy people think the Mac App Store is like

00:19:58   you know still this like really great thing similar to iOS and it's you know

00:20:03   not really the case and I'd kind of known this from Mac apps in the past but

00:20:07   didn't realize it was like this bad still. When you kind of saw people

00:20:12   talking about you on like you know you wrote this post I mean I don't know what

00:20:17   you were thinking about when you wrote the post initially, but how did it feel

00:20:21   to then kind of become part of the news cycle for a few days as people were kind

00:20:26   of talking about your post and it kind of blew up? What was that like?

00:20:32   It's kind of surprising. There's lots of different reactions, people you know

00:20:36   saying like, "It was ridiculous that I felt that I should have made more

00:20:40   being this high or whatever" and I was like, you know, that wasn't at all

00:20:43   what I was getting at. I was just like sharing my numbers because I

00:20:46   I said I was going to anyway before I launched it.

00:20:49   It was just crazy that with 100 downloads on the first day,

00:20:53   I could be number eight top paid.

00:20:54   So it was interesting to see everyone's take.

00:20:57   A couple of podcasts blamed sandboxing on the Mac App Store

00:21:01   and some podcasts were saying it was ridiculous

00:21:04   that I didn't do any marketing

00:21:06   'cause in my post I just said all I did was tweet it.

00:21:08   And it was just fair, it was my second day of my new job,

00:21:11   so I was busy.

00:21:14   Yeah, it was just interesting to see everyone's reaction,

00:21:17   but no one really liked defending the Mac App Store.

00:21:20   Everyone was just kind of like,

00:21:20   "Yeah, this is terrible."

00:21:22   And then trying to explain why they thought that was.

00:21:25   I don't know, it was very interesting.

00:21:28   - So Sam, I was thinking about your strategy

00:21:31   to basically don't do any marketing for the app

00:21:34   and still you manage to get in the top charts.

00:21:39   And I found that quite amusing because at first

00:21:43   I was thinking like why is not doing any marketing that seems like a, you know, it doesn't seem

00:21:49   like a good strategy.

00:21:51   But then again, I'm thinking this app with no marketing basically with just a few tweets,

00:21:57   you ended up in the top charts.

00:21:59   Do you think that's the reflection of a problem?

00:22:02   Do you think that basically with no marketing a simple Mac app can still get in the top

00:22:07   charts?

00:22:08   Do you think that's maybe you should have done some marketing, you know, but maybe you

00:22:13   Even without marketing you went into the top charts. That's pretty crazy

00:22:18   Yeah, I mean definitely I would have had I had time as it was like, you know transitioning to a new job

00:22:25   It's like whatever it's done. I'll tweet it and kind of like forgot about it

00:22:28   You didn't post it to product hunt or anything. Literally all I did was like tweet it and went to work

00:22:31   And I feel like of those hundred downloads the first day most of them are people that follow me on Twitter

00:22:37   So I mean great hundred downloads, whatever

00:22:42   But it was crazy that

00:22:44   You know, that's the top chart

00:22:46   So I mean if that's all it takes and like sure if you have like any sizable Twitter following like a tweets all you need

00:22:51   Just pretty nuts

00:22:53   So I don't know. I mean, I guess that's good

00:22:56   But like still the next day was like half the sales from the first day and I was still like top church and even I think

00:23:03   Best new app at that point

00:23:05   So at this point it's like, you know, well under a thousand dollars being like super featured in

00:23:11   in the App Store

00:23:13   so yeah, so as a

00:23:15   From your from your perspective as an indie developer

00:23:20   How do you think that especially not just the App Store but the Mac App Store?

00:23:25   Could be better. Do you think?

00:23:28   There's anything that Apple should be doing to help people like you even you know

00:23:33   small indie developers who want to make simple apps and be able to sustain themselves in the top charts or

00:23:40   You know just in the in the Mac App Store in general. How do you feel like the Mac App Store should be improved?

00:23:46   Just one extra thought on the marketing stuff, you know

00:23:52   See I had done a bunch of marketing and it's been all this time or even money on ads and stuff

00:23:55   Like I feel like I wouldn't have done that much better than than I did anyway

00:24:01   Just kind of I mean because my best day so far was 410

00:24:05   units

00:24:07   Which was when I was like on the front of Mac rumors. Yeah, I feel like it's hard to get much better than that for

00:24:13   Something like in a bunch of other blogs, you know picks up that day as well, you know

00:24:17   I feel like it's hard to do better than that to have like all the major Apple blogs

00:24:20   reblogging the Mac rumors stuff

00:24:23   You know, like I couldn't have bought that much press

00:24:29   I don't know. Yeah, because I mean it's it's a simple utility, you know, it's it's

00:24:34   Like I get what you're saying even even with a major marketing plan

00:24:38   It's still a very niche application for for OS 10 users. So but yeah, I understand

00:24:45   I mean it especially, you know indie developers like you cannot

00:24:48   Cannot just you know, do all the you know, the marketing and to think about I don't know like App Store

00:24:56   search optimization and all that kind of stuff. You just want to make an app and you want to set it.

00:25:01   And the fact that you managed to be in the top charts, I think that's great, but also a problem.

00:25:08   So I was wondering again, what kind of improvements would you like to see maybe in the future?

00:25:14   I mean, I don't really think it's anything Apple is doing that's like causing this really.

00:25:20   I mean, sure they could update the Mac App Store and make it better, because the app's just old

00:25:24   and you know like the design doesn't really match Yosemite that much and

00:25:28   Whatever but I mean sure there's like tools I could add for developers like analytics like we have on iOS

00:25:34   We don't have on on Mac and you know, fine whatever

00:25:37   I think the main problem is people just don't care about the Mac

00:25:39   I mean you can even see it in the shift from Apple's keynotes like

00:25:43   Less and less focused on OS 10 and like way more on iOS and and I wish related devices like you like the watch or whatever

00:25:50   I think just people aren't buying

00:25:53   Mac apps really and I don't know like maybe that's like a big marketing push

00:25:59   from Apple to fix this but I think it's you know we're moving less or we're

00:26:03   moving more away from the desktop and maybe that's okay and maybe this is just

00:26:07   like how it is and it's gonna keep going down unless you're someone like that's

00:26:12   selling an expensive app and a lot of it you're just not gonna do well making Mac

00:26:18   software I don't know.

00:26:20   After you saw kind of the charts and stuff on the first day

00:26:24   Did you think did you put on that you said you were you're asking people what they thought or you had people?

00:26:30   Coming to you and saying what they thought you were going to be earning

00:26:33   Did you think that the numbers were gonna be higher than they were?

00:26:35   Yeah, I mean I assumed like number eight top paid would be a lot more money like you at least like $5,000

00:26:46   But you know like it one of feels like yeah, it's at least 20 grand. I was like oh, man

00:26:51   I didn't even like think it would make this much ever because it's this little utility time to retire

00:26:55   Yeah, it's like a second day of a new job. Maybe it's my last day. You know

00:26:59   If I'm gonna make like you know 20 grand a day for a couple months like that would be spectacular

00:27:05   Which is totally not out of the question for you know a top paid on iOS. That's like a crazy amount of money

00:27:13   But I didn't realize the gap was was that much and most people were guessing, you know, like

00:27:16   Well over a thousand dollars at least, you know, I think my total was like what was it?

00:27:22   302 dollars so

00:27:26   You know

00:27:27   Not great overall so to date so it came out May 5th. It's the 19th today

00:27:32   My total proceeds are six and a half thousand

00:27:37   Which I make six and a half thousand every week like that's not bad at all, but it's definitely going down

00:27:43   You know my spike from all the press is definitely like chilling off it and that's fine. That's expected

00:27:49   It's definitely performing around the numbers. I would have kind of guessed as far as like number of units

00:27:54   But to have that number of units be in the top charges is

00:27:58   super surprising

00:28:01   Was it a bit of a gut punch?

00:28:03   When you saw the the analytics on the on the second day

00:28:07   Yeah, I definitely like gotten my my expectations up after like going out to dinner and people like oh, yeah

00:28:14   I'm gonna make all this money and then all these people on Twitter guessing

00:28:16   to realize it was like $300 was

00:28:20   It was a little sad, but I mean that's more of like what I would expected just like the charts, you know

00:28:28   Gave me all these high hopes and it's just sad to see that

00:28:32   But you can make that much of a splash in the App Store with just so few downloads.

00:28:39   So over the years there's always been some kind of discussion about the benefit of having

00:28:46   the top charts on the App Store.

00:28:48   Because all the popular apps end up in the top charts and indie developers can never

00:28:53   make it in the top charts.

00:28:55   And this is very true on iOS but as we've seen with your case and your story on the

00:29:00   the Mac, indie developers can make it to the top charts and especially in the top 10.

00:29:05   What are your thoughts on the top charts, on the App Store?

00:29:08   Do you think they're useful as a developer or as a user to kind of discover apps?

00:29:15   Have you ever thought about getting rid of the top charts?

00:29:18   Would they make the App Store a better place for indie developers like you?

00:29:24   So I think the alternative to top charts is more curated lists either by Apple or by whoever.

00:29:32   So now if I'm trying to find a game, I don't really play mini games, but sometimes I'm

00:29:36   like you know I want to go find a game to play and I'll browse the top charts because

00:29:39   I feel like that's a pretty good like what's popular, these can't be that bad.

00:29:44   That I'll look at Apple's lists and I feel like browsing Apple's list or browsing the

00:29:48   top charts, you know like I'm going to check both and that's fine.

00:29:52   If the top charts weren't there, I'd feel like I was missing out.

00:29:55   Like that I'm trusting Apple to pick the good ones and maybe there's some indie one that

00:29:58   just took off that they're not featuring yet.

00:30:01   So I don't know, I think overall as a user I prefer having the option to look at the

00:30:06   top charts.

00:30:07   And as a developer I think it's great because once you get in the top charts you're more

00:30:10   likely to stay in the top charts for longer than, you're more likely to do well longer

00:30:17   than if you weren't in the top charts.

00:30:19   So they don't bother me per se.

00:30:24   Do you guys think they should be removed?

00:30:28   It's tricky because I feel from a personal perspective, I want more curation and I want

00:30:37   to see better lists of apps and games handpicked by other human beings because I feel like

00:30:46   I trust the taste of people better than algorithms.

00:30:51   But as a user, when I talk to my friends and they don't read Apple blogs, they don't follow

00:30:59   Apple people on Twitter, I just want to kind of relate to them with the latest game, with

00:31:04   the latest app on the iPhone, and I feel like browsing the top charts is a good way to talk

00:31:11   with people, like with normal people, about software and apps, because everybody's downloading

00:31:17   apps. So, they're kind of like a simple way to discover popular stuff, but maybe it's

00:31:27   like this because it's the only easy way to discover popular stuff. Maybe with an alternative

00:31:33   there would be another, you know, the alternative would become popular with people. So, I don't

00:31:38   I feel like I use them, but I want another solution.

00:31:43   I don't know if it makes sense.

00:31:44   Yeah, I mean if I could see what my friends are downloading or using, that would be spectacular.

00:31:49   I don't see Apple doing that ever or doing a good job at it, but that'd be great.

00:31:54   I feel like when I...

00:31:55   I can't remember the last time that I found something truly useful or enjoyable for me

00:32:02   by looking at top charts.

00:32:04   I've downloaded stuff that's been in there that I've seen somebody link to, right, like

00:32:09   a game or something.

00:32:10   But I can't remember the last time I was in the App Store, looked in the top charts and

00:32:13   was like, "Ooh, that looks fun."

00:32:15   You know, I feel like it's full of stuff that is maybe not for me.

00:32:21   I think, yeah, I'd have the same experience.

00:32:23   Yeah, pretty much.

00:32:24   Or on the Mac App Store, it's full of Apple's apps.

00:32:27   Yes.

00:32:28   Yeah, Final Cut does pretty well from what I gather.

00:32:32   So Sam, the last thing I wanted to ask you today, looking back at this, has your

00:32:40   opinions changed on Apple's platforms in any way? Like are you gonna continue to do

00:32:43   stuff like this do you think? Or is this an experiment and you've kind of learned

00:32:47   something from it which maybe says that you maybe don't want to do this again?

00:32:52   That's tough. I've worked on client apps before that have had, you know, over

00:32:59   two million downloads in a day before and have done super well from that perspective.

00:33:05   So being able to replicate that on my own would be pretty great.

00:33:12   So knowing that that's obtainable is kind of a nice incentive, but I think on the Mac

00:33:21   I don't think that that's really a reality at all.

00:33:26   Unless you have something that's $50 plus and can sell a lot of it, it's just not going

00:33:31   to do well because the volume's just not there compared to iOS.

00:33:34   So I don't know, I'm sure I'll make some more...

00:33:37   I've been working on this market editor called Whiskey for a really long time, and I'm definitely

00:33:41   still going to finish it and release it on the Mac App Store.

00:33:45   But it's not so much like I want to make a bunch of money with it, it's more this is

00:33:48   something I enjoy working on and would like to sell.

00:33:51   I think that's kind of the attitude I've always had and then kind of was, you know, thought

00:33:57   it would be great to make all this money, you know, when I saw the charts.

00:34:01   But you know, it's like, well, I'll just keep making stuff because I like it for the Mac

00:34:05   and for iOS is maybe that's where like actual businesses is possible.

00:34:10   But now that I have a job, I've been, you know, on my own for a long time and just switched

00:34:15   to having a job a couple weeks ago.

00:34:18   So it's less of a thing now.

00:34:20   It's like, well, make something because it's fun and whatever.

00:34:22   But you can see a lot of folks panic left the App Store.

00:34:27   And I feel like just Mac apps in general have really--

00:34:31   the amount have gone down a lot.

00:34:33   Even RealMac puts out great stuff,

00:34:35   and they have been focusing on clear overall,

00:34:38   their other things lately.

00:34:41   At least from my view, I'm sure they work on other things.

00:34:44   But I don't know.

00:34:47   I feel like the Mac App Store is just on the decline.

00:34:49   and no one seems to be saying otherwise.

00:34:53   - Sam, thank you so much for joining us.

00:34:57   Where can people find your work and keep in touch with you?

00:35:01   - I'm Sophus on Twitter, S-O-F-F-E-S,

00:35:05   and my website's S-O-F-F dot E-S.

00:35:09   So feel free to say hi.

00:35:10   Thanks again for having me, guys.

00:35:11   I really appreciate it.

00:35:12   - Thank you. - That's an absolute pleasure.

00:35:13   Thank you for joining us.

00:35:15   Right, so Federico, I just wanna take our second break here

00:35:18   and then we can talk all about your Apple Watch,

00:35:20   which I'm very excited about.

00:35:22   - Okay.

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00:38:02   and Relay FM.

00:38:05   Ferik Avatice, how long have you had your watch for and how excited are you?

00:38:09   Okay so, today is Tuesday so I believe for five days maybe?

00:38:19   Let's check the activity app on my iPhone.

00:38:22   So I received my Apple Watch from Germany thanks to a friend of mine who received my

00:38:29   watch and shipped it to me in just about 24 hours.

00:38:33   I received my watch on Thursday, on May 14th.

00:38:38   So yeah, it's six days that I've had my watch and I have a few thoughts, Myke, and a few

00:38:45   questions also for you and for Lisa.

00:38:48   I've been so excited about this.

00:38:50   Well, I've been very excited too because, you know, a new Apple product in five years

00:38:58   and considering what the latest Apple product, the iPad, did to the way that I work and communicate

00:39:07   with people, you can guess that I'm very curious and excited to see what this new gadget can

00:39:14   do for me.

00:39:15   So if you don't mind, I organized just a bunch of notes and thoughts in sections, so maybe

00:39:22   we want to go through these sections and I would like to start from the sport band.

00:39:27   Sure, let's do it.

00:39:28   So I bought this sport model with the black band.

00:39:32   It's the 42 model with the black sport band.

00:39:38   So coming into this watch, and I was kind of skeptical about the sport band because

00:39:45   I saw a lot of people saying that it was really sweaty, that it was difficult to strap on,

00:39:53   And that it was kinda... that it was not the best material from Apple.

00:40:00   And I kinda agree and disagree with those thoughts from some people.

00:40:06   I don't...

00:40:07   I haven't found it to be sweaty at all.

00:40:10   Like it's just fine for me.

00:40:12   So maybe there must be some kind of skin stuff going on that maybe it's different from people

00:40:19   to people.

00:40:20   I found that like on some days it might be sweaty if I'm really warm or active but

00:40:26   like it's I wouldn't call it sweaty like a couple of times I've noticed you know

00:40:32   but like it's it's I don't find it to be that way either you know I don't know

00:40:38   and I'm sure like after you've worked out right if you move the band the sweat

00:40:41   over it right because that's just what's gonna happen but I don't find that every

00:40:46   day I'm like oh this thing is terrible you know I don't feel that I agree if

00:40:50   you're completely there how tight do you have it?

00:40:54   I'm wearing the what's the name the medium large band and I'm on the from

00:41:01   the left on the third pole in the in the band okay I have mine on the fourth one

00:41:07   so for me if I raise my arm my watch goes up my watch goes down my arm if I

00:41:13   I lower it, it goes down, you know, so like it moves.

00:41:16   If I raise and lower my arm, like up in the air right now,

00:41:19   the watch will move around.

00:41:21   Does that happen for you or do you have it really tight?

00:41:23   - No, it's really tight.

00:41:25   - Yes, I don't like that.

00:41:26   - No, no, no, I like it to be tight.

00:41:28   Like I feel like it's sitting on my wrist

00:41:33   and I like, I want it to be like firm in place.

00:41:37   I don't want it to wiggle around and move.

00:41:40   I could go crazy with that kind of stuff.

00:41:42   I've never been like that. For me...

00:41:44   Is it not a problem with the sensor?

00:41:46   The way that you wear it?

00:41:48   No, I can really...

00:41:49   If I try and get my heartbeat now, it will do it.

00:41:52   Uhm...

00:41:52   Which is, you know, that works.

00:41:54   And...

00:41:55   I would say I probably feel like 3/4 of the taps.

00:41:59   Which I feel probably isn't too out of whack for most people.

00:42:02   Hm.

00:42:04   I don't know, I feel like it's...

00:42:07   I would go crazy with a watch that moved.

00:42:10   And so I chose to like I did a few tests with the position of the band and I chose to keep it just

00:42:19   tight enough not to be you know not to basically hurt my wrist. So I feel like this is the best

00:42:26   spot. Yeah I mean you know it's not going crazy but it moves up and down my wrist quite easily.

00:42:31   But I have been a watch user for longer and that is just how I have always worn watches.

00:42:36   It's your personal preference. Yeah. Yeah. I haven't worn a watch for like a decade, maybe.

00:42:43   Especially a digital watch. The last time that I wore a watch it was an analog one that my

00:42:50   girlfriend bought me and the digital watch I stopped wearing maybe 15 years ago. That's quite

00:42:56   a comeback for me. Anyway, the sport band, it's not sweaty, at least in my experience,

00:43:03   but it's very difficult to put on and this is something that I'm still noticing because it's

00:43:09   kind of weird like the part of the band that basically latches onto the other part of the band

00:43:19   kind of has to go below and then you have to slide it to find the position that you like and

00:43:30   it is kind of difficult and I'm still struggling to find the best way to kind of rotate my wrist

00:43:37   and use my fingers to kind of put on the sport band in the morning. And we just had an article

00:43:48   today on Mac stories by Steven Aquino, writing about the accessibility of the sport band,

00:43:55   and it makes a few points about people with disabilities and with motor delays,

00:44:02   they can have real issues with sport band and if I don't have any disabilities but I'm already

00:44:12   struggling and I'm still struggling with the sport band so I can only imagine how some people

00:44:17   would be really problematic for them. But I also understand why Apple went with this design

00:44:24   because when you manage to put on the sport band, especially if you keep it tight on your wrist,

00:44:32   it never moves and it's super comfortable. So I can understand why they went with this design,

00:44:39   which by the way seems to be like one of the Mark Newzone, the watch company that Mark Newzone had.

00:44:49   So it's a design that has been around for a while and I understand it, it's just a bit difficult for me.

00:44:54   It's interesting, I wonder if it will get easier because I have, now I have developed like a

00:45:02   just a way that I put it on. I can do it one-handed, I'm doing it right now. So like

00:45:08   watch goes over, I just tuck it under, I clip in the pin and then slide it through.

00:45:15   How do you clip the pin?

00:45:18   I just so like, I grab, so I'm like, I'm holding the strap with my forefinger and thumb.

00:45:26   But you have those really long fingers.

00:45:28   Yeah, see I might be at an advantage.

00:45:31   You have an advantage.

00:45:32   So then I, with my middle finger, I'm now pushing the other side up and I'm holding it in place

00:45:39   and then I just clip it in.

00:45:41   Yeah, this is one of your moves.

00:45:45   I can't replicate that.

00:45:48   So I have a thought about getting multiple bands for the Apple Watch.

00:45:53   So I got the black band, which is, you know, it's a sport band, it's fine, I go out with

00:46:00   the sport band, I don't care.

00:46:03   Black goes on everything, it's no problem for the way that I usually dress.

00:46:07   I usually have black t-shirts or white t-shirts anyway, so it's fine from a visual standpoint.

00:46:14   But I'm wondering maybe I wanna get, you know, even if I have the Space Gray Apple Watch

00:46:20   Sport which is the cheap one, maybe I could get one of the unofficially supported fancier

00:46:28   bands for the Apple Watch, the steel one, and still use it on my Apple Watch Sport.

00:46:33   I don't know, maybe I could get the black Link bracelet or maybe something fancy like

00:46:38   the leather loop or whatever it's called.

00:46:41   And I'm thinking maybe I should think about in the future having two or three bands to

00:46:49   kind of swap around so I can go with the best configuration that I want for any given day

00:46:54   or occasion.

00:46:56   You know me from VirtualMic.

00:46:59   You know how I'm seriously affected by the problem, the paralysis really of choice, of

00:47:05   having too many choices.

00:47:07   And I've been thinking about this problem and I've been considering the way that I relate

00:47:16   to this problem and I see it as some sort of de-Pokemon effect.

00:47:24   So because I know myself, once I get an additional ban for the Apple Watch, just like Pokemon,

00:47:32   I want to catch them all.

00:47:34   I wanna have them all, you know, like a collection.

00:47:38   This is also why I'm not buying the amiibo figurines from Nintendo, because otherwise

00:47:42   I'm just gonna, something is gonna trigger in my brain and I will want to have them all.

00:47:49   So because I will know that once I get the Milaness loop, maybe I wanna get the leather

00:47:54   one because hey, why don't you like the leather one, get the leather one.

00:47:58   And so I'm thinking maybe I should just stick with the sport band, life will be easier for

00:48:03   me, my wallet will thank me and it'll just be a black band and it's fine.

00:48:09   So I mean I still want and will be still getting a Milanese loop but I agree with you completely

00:48:16   because now I also want a black sport band and I'm hoping I'll be able to buy them both

00:48:23   in San Francisco because the sport bands, they're like two week shipping now in England,

00:48:30   Like the Milanese is like eight weeks, so I'm just not gonna buy it yet.

00:48:34   I'm gonna wait until I can go out there.

00:48:35   If I can't get it, I'm just gonna order them both.

00:48:37   Like if they're not available.

00:48:40   I've seen, you know, everyone's been saying June, so I mean that is June, so maybe I can

00:48:45   get it then.

00:48:46   But, you know, so I'm gonna wait and just see what I can do.

00:48:52   It is true.

00:48:53   You are inclined to buy multiple bands.

00:48:57   Oh, definitely.

00:48:58   Definitely.

00:48:59   Cool. So the next...

00:49:03   I kind of want to talk about software now because I don't feel like there's much to

00:49:06   say about the hardware. Digital Crown has a...

00:49:09   Okay, so you say about Digital Crown, but what do you feel about the weight and stuff?

00:49:13   Like how do you feel on your wrist?

00:49:14   Fine. It's super light. Not a problem. The support band, it's very, very nice.

00:49:22   The screen is great, I can kinda see the pixels if I put it up close to my eyes, but I really

00:49:33   have to look at the screen, it looks like a retina display most of the time.

00:49:40   I think it's awesome, it's super light, comfortable.

00:49:45   I do think the charging system is genius, but I want to buy a stand, because I don't

00:49:51   like it when like it rolls on the side because I have no no charging stand or

00:49:56   accessory just the cable. So my top tip I have some like we call it blue tack here

00:50:04   so what you put on the back of a poster to stick on the wall? You put the what on

00:50:09   what? Right you know posters that you put on the wall? Yes. Right do you have

00:50:14   anything there that is kind of like it's like an adhesive but it just comes right

00:50:18   it off again like you use it to just tack things to a wall so you're not

00:50:23   putting a nail in them or anything like that you just use something to stick it

00:50:27   onto a wall with but you can take it off and there's no damage to the wall yeah

00:50:31   yeah so I have stuff like that it's called blue tack maybe you should google

00:50:34   it so you can see what I'm looking at here but I've stuck some of that to the

00:50:41   back of my charger and it's just stuck to my bedside table and it's perfect

00:50:47   doesn't move. No. I've never seen, like I know what this is, not sure I've ever seen

00:50:56   it used by my family or friends in Italy. It's kind of like one of those things that

00:51:02   children play with. Yeah I guess so, I guess so, but this is more, it's kind of like a

00:51:07   plasticine but it's like that but it's used for this kind of stuff. Bluetac I believe

00:51:13   is like a brand name so you'll be able to find something in Italy which is

00:51:17   similar and that I believe you'll find Federico is what is known as a life hack

00:51:21   that I have just given you there. You should start a blog. Ah, the life hack

00:51:27   blog. The British life hack. I don't want you to be sued by life hacker so

00:51:35   please don't follow my advice. We don't have... I don't know what you're talking about.

00:51:39   This is my personal disclaimer for you.

00:51:42   So Myke, anyway, the hardware is fine.

00:51:46   The Digital Crown has a very smooth feeling.

00:51:54   Sometimes I find myself just scrolling the Digital Crown for a reason, just because it

00:51:58   feels good to do that.

00:52:00   I don't know.

00:52:02   It's very nice.

00:52:05   I want to talk about the software.

00:52:07   I feel like software and apps are the big part for me.

00:52:11   So let's just get this out of the way.

00:52:14   You were right about notifications and receiving notifications while you don't want to pull

00:52:22   out your phone and you don't want to be distracted.

00:52:27   There's many software features of the Apple Watch that I want to talk about, but notifications

00:52:31   have been the biggest surprise maybe for me because I didn't think that my lifestyle would

00:52:38   adopt so quickly to not using my phone to check on notifications.

00:52:47   I found myself leaving my iPhone in my pocket or maybe on my desk or on my kitchen table

00:52:55   and I'm doing stuff around the house, right?

00:52:58   Maybe I'm cleaning the house or maybe I'm making lunch or dinner or I'm cleaning the

00:53:05   espresso machine or whatever and I get notifications from iMessage, from you, Steven, from Slack.

00:53:13   I get pushover alerts from stuff that happens on the internet like today I got a pushover

00:53:19   notification for the watchOS update and I get tons of notifications every day and I

00:53:25   And I tried to come up with a list of stuff that I deemed important to me, that I never

00:53:31   want to miss.

00:53:33   So I went into the Apple Watch app for the iPhone and my suspicion was confirmed that

00:53:38   I don't get the big deal that people were making the initial Apple Watch reviews, that

00:53:43   the television settings are broken, you just decide what you want to activate or deactivate.

00:53:48   I understand the idea of having more granular controls, but I think the critic of notifications

00:53:56   was way overblown.

00:53:57   Anyway, I went into the Apple Watch app, I enabled a bunch of notifications for apps

00:54:02   that I find important to me, and this was Thursday, I was immediately blown away by

00:54:11   the feeling of taps and sounds.

00:54:14   This is one of those things that I couldn't quite remember from my demo at the March event

00:54:22   in San Francisco because the demo room was very loud and there's people bumping around

00:54:27   you and there's like someone, there's people taking pictures and then there's a guy behind

00:54:36   you that wants to really see the Apple Watch so he starts pushing to see the demo table,

00:54:41   messy and I couldn't get the feeling of the optic feedback and the sounds so those are

00:54:48   really really nice and I especially like the sound of the iMessage notification. But one

00:54:56   thing that I noticed is that the taps from the Taptic Engine were really weak or at least

00:55:05   weaker than I expected.

00:55:08   So initially I was concerned that maybe I got a defective unit, but then quite a few

00:55:14   people on Twitter told me that they're just supposed to be this gentle, they're really

00:55:19   soft.

00:55:20   And maybe initially I couldn't feel them all the time so I turned on the prominent haptic

00:55:28   setting in the Apple Watch settings and I feel like the initial vibration before the

00:55:36   tap and the sound helps in getting my attention, but with time, by time I mean 6 days, I've

00:55:46   found that the notifications that don't have the prominent pre-alert, such as the move

00:55:54   progress or the stand progress during the day, those are just taps.

00:56:01   And now I can feel them just fine.

00:56:04   And I think I'm getting used to taps and the fact that they're weak, that was just, I think,

00:56:13   the first couple of days, now they seem to be fine.

00:56:17   And maybe I've adjusted to the kind of tactile feedback from the Apple Watch.

00:56:21   This is also true in the opposite direction for phantom taps.

00:56:26   So the first couple of days I was sure I was getting ghost taps, but instead I was getting

00:56:33   nothing, there was no tap.

00:56:36   And now the sensation of those invisible taps has gone, mostly.

00:56:41   And so I feel like as you start wearing a wearable device, you need to adjust a bit

00:56:47   to taps, vibrations, that kind of stuff.

00:56:50   And I feel like I'm in the middle of this process.

00:56:54   I feel like now I can understand taps and vibrations better.

00:57:00   What I'm really impressed by is just how much I depended on pulling out my phone to check

00:57:10   notifications and then being distracted by something else.

00:57:14   So I open slack because I receive a slack notification and I end up inevitably doing

00:57:20   something else in slack and talking to people, opening links and sharing gifs.

00:57:24   You know?

00:57:25   And then two hours later you're back out of slack again.

00:57:27   That is kind of the way it tends to be.

00:57:30   And this happens with, you know, Twitter, iMessage.

00:57:33   Imagine all the notifications that you get and because you know you're using your phone

00:57:38   and all your apps are there and you unlocked your phone already because it's so easy we

00:57:44   with Touch ID and now you're using apps so why not go check out Twitter, why not go check

00:57:50   out email, RSS and you're wasting time and you're being distracted.

00:57:55   And in using the watch and making an effort to really try to understand the watch, I feel

00:58:02   like I'm free in a way.

00:58:07   My phone is in my pocket and I know that I can use my phone if I want to or if necessary

00:58:13   but my watch is on my wrist and I can just look at my watch when I get a notification

00:58:19   which is way more elegant as a solution, the tap and the sound

00:58:24   has a loud sound effect on your phone, distracting other people, possibly.

00:58:30   And I get a notification, I can just raise my wrist and I can take a look at the notification

00:58:36   and at that point I can decide.

00:58:39   And most of the time I can just look at the notification and just be "ok, so this happened,

00:58:47   so this thing is going on, on my phone, and now what am I doing?"

00:58:52   Maybe I'm doing dishes or I'm making lunch or dinner for my girlfriend and I'm like "ok,

00:58:58   whatever, this happened, I will deal with it later" and I feel like the form factor

00:59:03   because it's a watch, and the software, because the apps are limited, they help me in this

00:59:10   mindset of "new information is available on my phone, but now I'm doing something else

00:59:18   and I need to finish what I'm doing because I don't want to be glued to my phone all the

00:59:23   time".

00:59:24   But this is not just some kind of hippie way of thinking about the Apple Watch and notifications

00:59:30   and like "I've found a new way of this new age of notifications".

00:59:35   It's just a practical approach.

00:59:37   Today, for example, I was shopping with my girlfriend, and as we were shopping, I got

00:59:43   a bunch of notifications from you and Twitter, and I just checked the notifications and I

00:59:50   just continued shopping and enjoying my afternoon with my girlfriend.

00:59:54   But at some point I got a notification from Pushover, and it told me that there was a

01:00:00   a software update for the Apple Watch. And that was really important because it was the

01:00:05   first software update and I knew that when that happened I needed to be ready for Mac

01:00:11   stories. So I told my girlfriend and so of course this I checked on the Apple Watch and

01:00:18   in a couple of seconds I told my girlfriend and she told me go ahead and just post it

01:00:25   on Macstories. So because I've been preparing for this time of just using the Apple Watch

01:00:32   and the iPhone, I made sure that all the blogging tools and scripts and workflows that I have

01:00:37   on my iPad are also on my phone now. So, since the notification, in just 2 to maybe 3 minutes,

01:00:45   I chose to use my phone and I created the article and I published the article on Macstories

01:00:53   the screenshots and everything.

01:00:56   And that was like, it made me think because most of the notifications I continued with

01:01:02   my day and I dealt with them later.

01:01:06   But with the important one, the watch helped me make a decision.

01:01:10   And it wasn't like I was walking around the store with my face inside the iPhone just

01:01:18   being totally distracting, totally distracted and not enjoying my day.

01:01:22   I was using the same device, only most of the time I ignore notifications.

01:01:29   It's not that I ignore them.

01:01:30   See that's wrong.

01:01:32   I see notifications just in a more concise environment that doesn't incentivize me to

01:01:45   be distracted by the phone.

01:01:47   So that's been, like I'm still exploring the notifications that I want to receive, how

01:01:53   much I want to be aware of stuff happening on Twitter and my website and Slack.

01:02:03   But I already feel like when you were, last year when you were talking about the feeling

01:02:09   of having notifications on your wrist, just quickly glance at notifications and go on

01:02:13   with whatever you're doing, I feel like you were right.

01:02:18   And so whether it's shopping and you're walking around the store and you just want to look

01:02:23   at notifications, or maybe I'm in the kitchen and I'm doing stuff and I just flick a flick

01:02:30   of a wrist and I'm looking at a notification, I feel like there's very much a solid potential

01:02:37   and not just, again, not just a philosophical potential, but it's very practical.

01:02:43   I keep coming back to the idea that all of this is just practical.

01:02:48   It's just I want to do stuff, and see, I want to work, and I want to enjoy my day,

01:02:54   and I feel like the Apple, and this is a bigger topic than just notifications,

01:03:00   but I feel like the Apple Watch is helping me in both cases,

01:03:03   and notifications is just one aspect.

01:03:06   Is that enough about notifications, Myke?

01:03:10   Yeah, I'm pleased that you spoke a little bit about that and I'm really happy that

01:03:15   you have found them to be useful in this way.

01:03:20   Like, that is... that makes me happy, basically.

01:03:25   Awesome.

01:03:26   Because, I mean, because, you know, me and you spoke about this for a while and I think that you were never really sold on it

01:03:32   I was always convinced that you would understand it once you used it, because it does need

01:03:38   that.

01:03:42   And I'm happy that that has been the case for you, because I was convinced that it would

01:03:46   be.

01:03:47   So I'm happy to feel like I wasn't crazy.

01:03:51   And you know that Myke was right.

01:03:54   You know how important that is to me.

01:03:57   So the second big aspect for me is the fitness features.

01:04:04   Because I've been talking about this stuff for a while and I believe that a wearable

01:04:09   device that is on your body basically and has sensors and can understand your movements

01:04:17   and habits can really be helpful on a daily basis.

01:04:21   So there's a bunch of thoughts here.

01:04:25   The first one is, this is very nice for what people call the gamification of fitness and

01:04:36   health features.

01:04:38   I feel like I'm making an effort to stand up more, to just walk around.

01:04:47   I was already the kind of guy who walked around the house quite a bit during the day, even

01:04:54   because I use the iPad and I like to stretch myself during work times.

01:05:01   And I was already doing that.

01:05:03   But the Apple Watch is helping me visualize that, the stand activity.

01:05:08   And I feel like that's really helpful because maybe when you work at a desk,

01:05:15   it's easy to forget that maybe you want to go outside for a couple of minutes,

01:05:19   catch a fresh breath, and maybe you want to go to the bathroom.

01:05:23   It's important to kind of have breaks and I feel like the Apple watch makes it easy to have these breaks and it's they can

01:05:30   be healthy, I'm sure and

01:05:32   The the fact that I can see them in this

01:05:35   You know in this ring interface

01:05:39   It's it is really helpful and nice and I like you know

01:05:43   all the visual breakdowns and the end of the day to be able to see charts and to be able when I

01:05:48   To see what I don't stand up because I'm sleeping

01:05:52   So that's really nice.

01:05:54   As far as

01:05:57   the workouts are concerned

01:06:00   So lately I've been... I've started doing

01:06:04   indoor cycling again

01:06:07   because I need to walk to work on my

01:06:10   my leg muscles as part of my

01:06:14   physical therapy routine and

01:06:19   So I've started doing indoor cycling again and

01:06:22   So the workout app on the Apple watch has been quite helpful for

01:06:28   Two things the first one is to be able to see my BPM as I as I as I'm on the on the on the bike and

01:06:36   That's helpful because maybe I need to slow down

01:06:40   You know, there's a like a control on the on the on the bike that can help you

01:06:46   make a make it like

01:06:48   tougher or easier. And the BPM is a good metric for me to understand whether I'm going too

01:06:58   hard or not. But what's really nice is that I can just focus on my workout. The Apple

01:07:05   Watch is on my wrist. I don't have to care for my phone, basically, because I used to

01:07:11   keep my phone in my pocket but I needed to have like a whole setup for my earpods and

01:07:21   I always, like I dropped my phone a bunch of times when I was either on the indoor bike

01:07:27   or on the treadmill.

01:07:28   It was always uncomfortable to have, especially with the iPhone 6 which is bigger.

01:07:35   Now I can just look at my watch, it tells me the elapsed time for the workout and it

01:07:43   tells me we actually progress in the middle of the workout, which is very nice that it

01:07:49   gives me a tap in my halfway point.

01:07:52   So that's really nice.

01:07:54   But the best part so far is not related to the workout app or the achievements or the

01:07:59   activity app on the phone, those are super nice, but it's still, I believe, early for

01:08:05   me to judge. Because there's a bunch of achievements that you can unlock and I want to see how

01:08:11   the activity goes, not just in a window of 6 days, but maybe in a window of 6 months.

01:08:17   So we'll talk about this again in the future. But I was really impressed by the media control

01:08:24   Glance on the Apple Watch. So I like to work out with music. And in fact I'm receiving

01:08:31   my Bluetooth earbuds tomorrow. So far I've been using just the Bose... what's the name

01:08:38   of a portable speaker that I use to play music? I believe it's...

01:08:44   - Sound... - Sound...

01:08:45   - Sound Bar? - Sound Mini, maybe? Is that a name? I don't

01:08:49   know. Sound...

01:08:50   - The Bose Bluetooth sound thing. - Yes.

01:08:53   Yes, Google that. Take my word for it. It's a real thing. So I've been using that, and

01:09:02   it's awesome to me that... So let me back up a little. When I used to do the indoor

01:09:09   cycling or just the treadmill to walk and run, it's terrible to use the iPhone to switch

01:09:21   music, to play and pause, to skip songs. I know that you can use the physical controls

01:09:27   on the EarPods, but I don't exactly like the EarPods. And it's awful that I, you know,

01:09:33   to look at the screen while you're on the bike or maybe while you're walking and sweating

01:09:37   and you know, you want to focus on what you're doing, not Spotify for example. I really like

01:09:44   that I can just look at my watch and there's the glands for the media controls, they work

01:09:50   with any app that uses, basically any app that shows up in Control Center. I can adjust

01:09:57   the volume, I can skip songs, play and pause and that's it. And that's super helpful to

01:10:02   me because once I choose a playlist, maybe I want to skip songs, I don't have to use

01:10:08   my phone, I can just use my watch and my hands continue to be free. And I don't risk dropping

01:10:15   my phone of course. So that's really nice. And I'm a big fan of the media, the remote

01:10:22   glance I think it's called. Also when I'm driving I'm not distracted by the phone or

01:10:29   I don't have to switch songs only when I'm at a stoplight. I can, you know, just because

01:10:38   I know where the tap target is, I can just unlock my phone and my watch even without

01:10:44   looking and I can just switch songs and that's really helpful.

01:10:48   So I'm very excited by the fitness and workout stuff on the Apple Watch and as I start doing

01:10:57   different types of workouts, I'm interested to see how the Apple Watch can understand

01:11:03   what I'm doing and I want to see how the Activity app on the phone gives me data and helps me

01:11:12   visualize my progress over time. Right now, it's nice that the Apple Watch gives me weekly reports

01:11:19   about my goals and my workouts. I want to see how, maybe a year from now,

01:11:25   what kind of features that will add to provide more context to my progress and to my activity.

01:11:33   It's a total... I mean, I don't ever want to buy another fitness band ever again,

01:11:41   That's for sure. I have been thinking about the Fitbit and the Jawbone.

01:11:45   I don't ever want to buy one of these things again.

01:11:48   I just, I like, I totally, I'm a believer of the having a single watch with a bunch of features

01:11:58   rather than dedicated accessories.

01:12:00   Yeah, I'm not up for wearing a smart watch and a fitness band.

01:12:05   Like, it's just not something I want to do.

01:12:07   Now, like I'm using the workout app and I'm looking at the activity app on the Apple Watch,

01:12:15   I'm never gonna, unless it's some major revolutionary breakthrough of a fitness band that can read

01:12:23   your mind, basically I'm never gonna buy another fitness band or step counter or whatever,

01:12:30   I just want everything on my watch.

01:12:32   And I want everything on my watch because it goes to the iPhone, where it's all my apps

01:12:36   are and like the, like for example yesterday I was tracking my meals in Lifesum and maybe

01:12:47   it was the other day not yesterday.

01:12:49   Anyway, it just, I didn't have to configure anything, it just pulled my workout calorie

01:12:56   count from the health app from Apple just because I used the Apple Watch.

01:13:04   I didn't have to log in to anything, it just worked out of the box and it was awesome.

01:13:10   That's one of the advantages of an open model, at least an open technology to developers.

01:13:19   In this case it just works out of the box, you don't have to give your account information

01:13:24   to anybody.

01:13:27   Or even worse, you don't have to be constrained by the limitations of the Fitbit ecosystem,

01:13:34   which is, they decided not to go with the HealthKit technology, so if you use the Fitbit,

01:13:40   you gotta stay inside the Fitbit, or you gotta use one of those few third party integrations.

01:13:47   Today I can, with the Apple Watch, with HealthKit, it's just this data is available to anyone

01:13:53   who wants to use it on my iPhone.

01:13:55   And I found that as a user, I found that to be incredibly respectful of my data and of

01:14:03   my choice of the apps that I want to use.

01:14:05   So yeah, I'm going to keep using the fitness and workout features on the Apple Watch.

01:14:11   Cool.

01:14:12   Let me stop you Federico to have our final break for this week and then we'll finish

01:14:17   up with some more thoughts about your time with the watch so far.

01:14:20   How does that sound?

01:14:22   Sounds perfect.

01:14:24   This week's episode of Connected is also brought to you by Igloo, the intranet you'll actually

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01:17:28   Federico, tell me what it's been like using some apps on your Apple Watch so far.

01:17:34   What has your experience been?

01:17:36   Again, not as terrible and doomed as most people on Twitter were saying.

01:17:46   Well, I mean...

01:17:48   They're slow, but they're not unusable.

01:17:50   1.0.1 has come out today, and this could be a placebo effect,

01:17:53   but I do feel like apps are loading faster for me right now.

01:17:56   No, the glances are just so much faster, it's ridiculous.

01:18:01   I feel like stuff's being retained in memory for longer.

01:18:04   I feel like that's one of the things that's happening because I can launch an app, launch an app, launch an app, go back to app number one and it loads well

01:18:10   but then maybe if I come back to it 20 minutes later it just takes a little bit longer to load again

01:18:13   but still much much faster

01:18:15   but like saying about the Doom thing and I know you make a joke of it but

01:18:18   it has been terrible like you know I've taken two minute videos of spinners for you

01:18:24   you know trying to show you stuff

01:18:25   I don't know why I've never seen that kind of stuff on my watch

01:18:30   and I have the same first version

01:18:33   The only difference that I can think about is that on my phone I have the iOS 8.4 beta.

01:18:40   That's the only difference between you and me.

01:18:42   But I've never ever seen a spinner that long.

01:18:45   Right.

01:18:46   I mean whether you've seen them or not, it is happening.

01:18:49   Or was happening.

01:18:50   Yeah.

01:18:51   Like, you know, it's very frustrating.

01:18:53   The word people saying using apps on the Apple Watch is useless.

01:18:57   And I don't think that's the case.

01:18:59   I agree that the up screen on the Apple Watch is not the main experience, and I agree that

01:19:06   I spend most of my time with the watch at least, again, in these first six days, using

01:19:13   notifications, the watch face and glances, and the friends interface.

01:19:19   But it's not like the up screen is useless.

01:19:22   In fact, this may sound totally crazy and again, it's never been a problem for me to

01:19:33   share unpopular thoughts and I've found myself enjoying, actually enjoying, reading email,

01:19:44   Twitter and news on the Apple Watch.

01:19:47   So I'm not doing this just to prove a point, because I have a few real life situations

01:19:54   that I brought to the show as examples.

01:19:56   Yeah I feel like you need to, because when you say things like that, right, it makes

01:20:01   it sound like you're just sitting there all day now, just dancing on twitter.

01:20:05   So I need you to explain to me.

01:20:06   No, no, no.

01:20:07   Okay, yeah.

01:20:08   One day I went to a bar, so to a coffee shop, to you non-Italian people, to have an espresso.

01:20:19   And as I was waiting, so usually you gotta wait 40 to 60 seconds for an espresso at a

01:20:27   bar here.

01:20:29   In those 60 seconds I could have, as I've always done, I could have taken my phone and

01:20:38   you know, started using my phone as I was waiting for the bar owner to make my espresso.

01:20:45   And as the espresso was ready, what I would have done was I could have stirred my espresso

01:20:54   with a bit of sugar with one hand and kept using the phone with the other hand. And I

01:21:04   wouldn't have enjoyed my coffee at all. So in those 60 seconds instead I just opened

01:21:10   nozzle on my Apple Watch and I saw that there was a bit of some news about Apple in my Twitter

01:21:20   stream and so I just checked the headlines, couple of paragraphs, I was like "okay cool"

01:21:26   And then my espresso was ready and I totally enjoyed my espresso.

01:21:34   I wasn't that guy with the iPhone at the bar drinking the espresso, because see this is

01:21:41   the other thing.

01:21:42   I feel like the Apple Watch is helping me be less rude to people.

01:21:46   It's always rude when, especially when you're buying something and they give you like, I

01:21:52   I don't know, maybe a coffee or a slice of pizza, and you're totally absorbed by your iPhone.

01:21:58   And you're like "Oh yeah, thanks", and you're still looking at the screen.

01:22:01   With the watch, in that coffee example, I feel like when I saw that the espresso was ready,

01:22:10   I didn't have to fumble and put my phone in my pocket, or to keep looking at the phone

01:22:15   and get the espresso with the other hand, I just did it naturally, because it was a watch.

01:22:21   And so that was one example. Today, as I was shopping for clothes at my nearest mall where the

01:22:30   Apple store is also located and where an Apple employee looked at my Apple Watch because, you

01:22:37   know, I think he figured it out that it was an Apple Watch, not a regular Android smartwatch.

01:22:42   Anyway, as I was shopping, I was in line at the cash register to pay because we do pay with cash.

01:22:51   still. And as I was waiting, there was a couple of people that I had to wait for and instead

01:23:04   of again pulling out my phone, I opened Twitterrific on my Apple Watch and I checked for my mentions

01:23:12   and DMs on Twitter and when it was my turn to pay, I didn't have to do anything. It was

01:23:20   a watch, it was already there, so I just kept using my hands to pay with cash and to hand

01:23:26   off the T-shirt that I wanted to buy to the store employee.

01:23:32   And it was natural and it was out of the way in a second, because it's already on you,

01:23:37   so you don't have to put it away, you just have to stop looking at it, which I think

01:23:42   it's easier because it's a watch.

01:23:46   And the other, the final example that I brought to you for your consideration Myke, is the

01:23:53   crazy traffic in Rome.

01:23:56   So when you drive in Rome, I drive quite a bit every day, and as you drive in Rome there's

01:24:04   a traffic light and some traffic lights can go on for several minutes because even when

01:24:10   the green comes on, maybe there's so many cars in front of you that you're not gonna

01:24:16   make it till the next green light. So there's especially one traffic light near my house

01:24:22   that I need to wait usually like 3 to 4 minutes. You know, you move slowly and it's a very

01:24:31   slow process. Because it's not like you're totally stuck, you move slowly car after car

01:24:40   after car. And usually I have to admit that even when I'm moving super slowly I check

01:24:49   my phone. And I know that it's wrong, but because it's so slow I check my phone. But

01:24:54   it's still dangerous, because even if you're moving slowly you can end up being distracted

01:24:59   by your phone and maybe hitting another car. That fortunately never happened to me, but

01:25:06   But I've been concerned by my habit of checking my phone while moving very slowly at the traffic lights.

01:25:13   With the Apple Watch, because my hands are already on the steering wheel, and because

01:25:18   it's meant to be like a shorter, brief interaction, I've been checking email at the traffic lights,

01:25:27   and it's fine.

01:25:28   I've been using this beta of the new RIDL email app called Spark.

01:25:35   and I have it on my watch. And I think it's convenient to check email for 10 seconds and

01:25:44   then to continue doing what you're doing. So it's not like I'm sitting at my desk and

01:25:50   making an effort to use Twitter, email and read news on my watch. That's insane, because

01:25:56   when I'm at my desk I either use my iPad 90% of the time or I use my phone. And if I have

01:26:04   5 or 10 minutes free. I use my phone anyway because I...

01:26:07   See this is the main point. I don't want to use the Apple Watch for everything.

01:26:13   But I do believe that there are some parts of my life where I was using the iPhone and

01:26:21   I was being either rude or distracted or I was being absorbed by apps and notifications

01:26:32   And instead, in some parts of my life, some moments of my days, and some situations and contexts,

01:26:40   I feel like having a watch as a more discrete device is better for me.

01:26:48   And I feel like I'm already in the six days, I've enjoyed being around people more.

01:26:57   And today, like, I cannot describe the feeling of shopping and just enjoying time with my

01:27:04   girlfriend and not having to check my phone all the time.

01:27:09   And it's not like I didn't have free will before.

01:27:14   I've always been able to say "Yeah, I don't wanna check my phone.

01:27:19   I'm not stupid.

01:27:20   I'm not being forced to use my iPhone."

01:27:25   But it's human nature and you're tempted and you're inclined to check your smartphone because

01:27:32   everybody does.

01:27:34   And if, see this is the big if of my discussion today.

01:27:38   If these six days are of any indication of what the Apple Watch is going to look like

01:27:47   in my daily life going forward, I think it'll be a major change in terms of how I do fitness,

01:27:55   How I wait for notifications to come to me, how I take advantage of brief moments of availability,

01:28:06   whether it's a traffic light or whether it's waiting for a coffee.

01:28:11   And I feel like not having the phone all the time and not being tempted by the phone because

01:28:18   you trust the watch to bring you important stuff.

01:28:23   seem potent to me and it'll make a deep difference, a very sharp difference with before. There's

01:28:33   been other examples, like the other day I was at the beach, and when we got to the beach

01:28:42   I gave my phone to my girlfriend because she can keep it in her purse, because I don't

01:28:47   trust my pocket, they're kinda loose and I don't want my phone to end up in the sand.

01:28:53   So when we wanted to leave the beach, every time I asked my girlfriend "hey, do you have

01:29:01   my phone?" and she has to go look in her purse and she's always annoyed.

01:29:07   The other day as we were like "ok, just go back home" and we were leaving the beach and

01:29:14   of course I was like "where's my phone?

01:29:17   Does she really have my phone?"

01:29:19   So on the Apple Watch you can use the settings glands to ping your phone and to play a sound

01:29:24   effect.

01:29:25   So I just played a sound effect and the phone pinged in my girlfriend's purse and she wasn't

01:29:32   annoyed by my request of looking inside her purse to find my phone and it just worked

01:29:37   like magic.

01:29:39   Or I was also at the beach and my phone was also in my girlfriend's purse and my mom called

01:29:47   me and instead of struggling to find my phone and responding to my mom, I just talked to

01:29:57   the Apple Watch.

01:29:58   A phone call on the watch.

01:30:01   It totally makes you look like a spy.

01:30:04   I do it at home.

01:30:06   I do it at home quite a lot now.

01:30:07   It's amazing.

01:30:08   It's amazing.

01:30:09   Because I usually when I'm at home I just put it on loudspeakers.

01:30:11   This is just kind of the same thing and I don't need to go and grab my phone from wherever

01:30:15   it is.

01:30:16   doing that.

01:30:17   So, I just wanted to make a conclusion to be a general note that will follow up, will

01:30:25   circle back in a few weeks.

01:30:28   We'll see.

01:30:31   Before buying the watch, there was a lot of excitement and a lot of hope for this new

01:30:41   device.

01:30:43   It seems to me like it's become some kind of a trend to be cynical, to be not excited

01:30:53   by new technology.

01:30:55   Because maybe for some people it's kind of cool to always be unimpressed by new tech.

01:31:01   And I'm not saying that it's not right to point out flaws, because I'm the first person

01:31:08   to always want better or more or simpler from iOS and Apple hardware. But it's just there's

01:31:19   a some underlying negativity I think with the Apple Watch and maybe with the wearable

01:31:24   talk on Twitter and blogs in general. I feel like some websites and some writers and some

01:31:33   people in general, they think it's maybe cool to be unimpressed and to be...

01:31:42   I don't know...

01:31:43   I mean it's a computer on your wrist and it's awesome and I mean you can have phone calls

01:31:49   and you can check your heartbeat and you can get taps from friends and it's a new, totally

01:31:56   new device with sensors and it looks great and it's light and it works with your iPhone

01:32:03   which is the most amazing device ever and I like I'm giddy with excitement and

01:32:09   I feel lucky because I don't I the places that I check and read and and

01:32:17   listen like I don't see that stuff oh I'm jealous like it might be I don't know

01:32:23   like I don't read as many sites or whatever is you but like from the

01:32:27   majority of people that I know like everyone like everyone has their

01:32:30   complaints. Like I have my complaints and I'm sure that you do yours as well and then maybe

01:32:34   they'll take a little bit more time to come out still but there are things that

01:32:37   frustrate me about this device. But on the whole like I really like it a lot

01:32:43   and I'm very happy with it and it's becoming a big part of the way that I

01:32:49   kind of my computer life works I suppose.

01:32:52   I feel like more people should be more

01:32:56   excited more often. I like optimism. I like, especially when it comes to new

01:33:03   technology, new gadgets and you know stuff that matters to people like

01:33:08   workouts and fitness and health features that stuff is important and you cannot

01:33:13   write off this stuff with meh I don't care it's you it's just wrong to me this

01:33:21   is stuff that matters and to have technology on you to have a do you have

01:33:24   whether it's an Apple Watch or Google Fit, you know, on Android Wear, it doesn't matter,

01:33:29   this is exciting times, you know? And you know, I'm always kind of the happy guy, you

01:33:36   know, I like new tech, I like new gadgets, I like iOS and new features, but this is really

01:33:42   like a major change, and it's a new device, and everybody used to be crazy when Apple

01:33:49   release a new device and maybe this time, because maybe Apple is also more popular,

01:33:56   I've seen some people being bored already with the Apple Watch, which I think is crazy

01:34:04   because it's like I've never been this excited and curious and interested in a new device

01:34:12   in years.

01:34:13   So yeah.

01:34:14   I'm pleased you like it. Try not to worry about negative people Federico.

01:34:21   No, no, it's not that I worry. It just, it worries me that they can't be happy.

01:34:29   Because quite, you know, I'm sure people are happy.

01:34:34   Why can't they be happy?

01:34:39   Or optimistic?

01:34:43   Like stress makes you age more quickly.

01:34:46   Did you know that?

01:34:48   People are allowed to like what they like.

01:34:51   Sure!

01:34:52   But they're also...

01:34:53   This isn't going to fit for everyone though, is it?

01:34:58   I feel like this is...

01:35:00   I mean, you're entitled to your opinion, but to me it seems like some people that I follow

01:35:06   on Twitter especially, this is especially the case on Twitter, which is just in general,

01:35:10   it tends to be a negative place.

01:35:11   It's a cynicism machine.

01:35:13   Yes.

01:35:14   So this is mostly the case on Twitter.

01:35:16   But I feel like people are of course entitled to their thoughts, and I don't want to say

01:35:22   they're wrong, but you're also entitled to be the silly guy, you know, excited by new

01:35:28   stuff and to smile because you got a tap on your Apple Watch. You're entitled to be the

01:35:33   stupid person who's excited by, you know, getting a ping on your wrist by a friend or

01:35:41   getting an animated emoji because it's fun. You're entitled to fun as well, not just serious,

01:35:48   cynical, "Oh my god, I'm so bored" tech analysis, you know? It's good to have fun with tech.

01:35:57   That's all I'm saying.

01:35:58   >> Myke, we should start a new web series, Fun with Tech with Federico Vittucci.

01:36:03   >> Yes, I'm up for that.

01:36:05   >> Federico Vittucci teaches you how to have fun with tech.

01:36:11   I think that about wraps it up for this week's episode of Connected.

01:36:13   If you'd like to find the show notes for today, you can head on over to relay.fm/connected/40.

01:36:18   Federico, thank you for joining me.

01:36:21   >> No, thank you for having me for like a year now, Myke.

01:36:26   If you'd like to find Federico's work online, you can do that.

01:36:29   He is over at maxstories.net and he issues his tweets into the Cynicism Machine at his

01:36:36   advertici, V-I-T-I-C-C-I, and I am at i-mic, I-M-Y-K-E.

01:36:42   Thanks again to our sponsors this week, Linda, PDF Pen, Scan Plus from Smile, and igloo.

01:36:49   And thank you most of all for listening, and we'll be back next time.

01:36:52   Until then, say goodbye Federico.

01:36:54   Thank you.