Connected

00:00:00 ◼   ► *Intro Music*

00:00:06 ◼   ► From Relay FM, this is Connected, episode number 34.

00:00:11 ◼   ► Today's show is brought to you by our friends over at Igloo, an internet you'll actually like.

00:00:17 ◼   ► 1Password from AgileWits, put passwords in their place.

00:00:21 ◼   ► And Wealthfront, the automated investment service that makes it easy to invest your money the right way.

00:00:26 ◼   ► My name is Myke Hurley, I'm back, and I'm joined as always by Mr. Steven Hackett.

00:00:31 ◼   ► Hey buddy, welcome back to the show.

00:00:33 ◼   ► Happy to be here, it's nice to be back with you guys.

00:00:36 ◼   ► I'm Mr. Federico Vittucci, hello sir, how are you?

00:00:38 ◼   ► - Ben tornato, Myke. - Ah, si si Federico.

00:00:42 ◼   ► You don't even know what I said.

00:00:43 ◼   ► Well I said yes yes anyway.

00:00:45 ◼   ► Yeah, that sounds accurate.

00:00:49 ◼   ► How are you Michael?

00:00:50 ◼   ► I'm very well.

00:00:51 ◼   ► I'm a little bit discombobulated right now,

00:00:53 ◼   ► because I came home from my two week trip today,

00:00:56 ◼   ► This is the third show I've recorded.

00:00:58 ◼   ► I don't, the schedule's all over the place.

00:01:01 ◼   ► I don't know where I am, but I'm happy to be here.

00:01:05 ◼   ► - Are you at your own computer, Myke?

00:01:09 ◼   ► - I am, I am.

00:01:09 ◼   ► And it has a couple more stickers, so that's always good.

00:01:13 ◼   ► - Can you even put more stickers?

00:01:16 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:01:17 ◼   ► - He layers and overlaps.

00:01:18 ◼   ► - Wow.

00:01:20 ◼   ► - You have to eventually, you run out of space.

00:01:21 ◼   ► I think I need a 17 inch, like,

00:01:24 ◼   ► just so I can put the stickers on.

00:01:26 ◼   ► technically they don't make those anymore.

00:01:28 ◼   ► - Well, but everybody knows, Stephen,

00:01:30 ◼   ► you can buy old computers, you know?

00:01:32 ◼   ► - Really, just make Stephen sad.

00:01:33 ◼   ► - I'm gonna write that down

00:01:36 ◼   ► that you apparently can buy old computers,

00:01:38 ◼   ► and I'm gonna look into this for next time.

00:01:39 ◼   ► - Where can I find these computers of old?

00:01:42 ◼   ► - My house.

00:01:43 ◼   ► Come on over.

00:01:45 ◼   ► - I got 'em all here, buddy.

00:01:46 ◼   ► - Yeah, we spoke about that on analog this week,

00:01:49 ◼   ► or I guess last week, depending on how time works.

00:01:52 ◼   ► And so I sent Casey my text file of the collection,

00:01:55 ◼   ► and uh...

00:01:57 ◼   ► i think it

00:01:57 ◼   ► i think it surprised him

00:01:59 ◼   ► how many how many things were in there

00:02:01 ◼   ► i enjoyed listening to connected this week that was a lot of fun

00:02:06 ◼   ► steven have you ever

00:02:07 ◼   ► thought about making a museum

00:02:09 ◼   ► out of your house

00:02:11 ◼   ► for people to come in and visit and view old max?

00:02:14 ◼   ► the problem is that there's also people in my house and so what do i do with them

00:02:18 ◼   ► when the museum's open? you can put them to work

00:02:22 ◼   ► inside the house which is now a museum.

00:02:25 ◼   ► - It's fine, I do have a exterior garage workshop

00:02:28 ◼   ► that I could turn into a museum,

00:02:29 ◼   ► or I could put the family out there

00:02:30 ◼   ► and turn the house into a museum.

00:02:32 ◼   ► Both are really good ideas.

00:02:33 ◼   ► Good ideas.

00:02:36 ◼   ► Myke, if someone wanted to find that episode of Analog

00:02:38 ◼   ► or any of the links that we were about to discuss,

00:02:40 ◼   ► how would they go about that?

00:02:41 ◼   ► - Oh, you threw me for a curve ball there.

00:02:43 ◼   ► I didn't know what URL I needed to read.

00:02:46 ◼   ► The URLs that you will need for this episode of Connected

00:02:50 ◼   ► or relay.fm/connected/34 or preferably in your podcast app of choice.

00:02:57 ◼   ► You should mention Myke that these links cannot be opened on an Apple Watch because there's

00:03:03 ◼   ► no web browser.

00:03:04 ◼   ► Interesting.

00:03:05 ◼   ► Well, I mean...

00:03:06 ◼   ► I feel like it's an important thing to say.

00:03:07 ◼   ► That is very important. You cannot open those links in the non-existent web browser in the

00:03:12 ◼   ► Apple Watch.

00:03:14 ◼   ► So we should do... we should do follow-up.

00:03:17 ◼   ► Follow-up.

00:03:18 ◼   ► Follow-up.

00:03:19 ◼   ► Up first the... Myke stuck. Up first the limited edition connected t-shirt is

00:03:28 ◼   ► about to become really limited edition because as I am saying this there are

00:03:33 ◼   ► three days and five hours left to purchase the pretty awesome connector

00:03:40 ◼   ► shirt so you should go check that out if you haven't ordered one there'll be an

00:03:43 ◼   ► image in the show notes I got an email last week so I don't know if Federico or

00:03:47 ◼   ► Myke you saw that in the show notes I had that the mock-up from Frank that had

00:03:51 ◼   ► the guy with like muscular tattooed arms and several people asked if that were

00:03:57 ◼   ► you Myke so I think people think that you have like manly tattooed arms which

00:04:01 ◼   ► is cool. Yep one person actually just said to me did you trim your beard like

00:04:07 ◼   ► that was all that they said and I found that quite interesting I like that I

00:04:12 ◼   ► I like that people think that I am both one, muscular and two, tattooed.

00:04:16 ◼   ► Yeah, which...

00:04:18 ◼   ► I'm neither.

00:04:20 ◼   ► I don't wanna...

00:04:22 ◼   ► I'm tattooed, but not that in depth.

00:04:26 ◼   ► But I mean, I don't think people were trolling.

00:04:28 ◼   ► I think at least the one email that I'm thinking of was, I think, serious.

00:04:32 ◼   ► I said no, you know, it's just a mock-up.

00:04:35 ◼   ► But if you buy this shirt, you will be muscular and attractive like our model.

00:04:40 ◼   ► Do we know who that is?

00:04:44 ◼   ► Maybe it's Frank.

00:04:45 ◼   ► Maybe it is Frank.

00:04:46 ◼   ► Should we invite him on the show?

00:04:47 ◼   ► The muscular tattoo guy?

00:04:48 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:04:49 ◼   ► Sure.

00:04:50 ◼   ► It's Brett Kelly.

00:04:51 ◼   ► Up first in follow up we have more on weird internet devices.

00:04:57 ◼   ► So we've talked about this the last couple of weeks.

00:04:59 ◼   ► This needs to be the last time or we end up with the show notes thing again.

00:05:02 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:05:03 ◼   ► This is awesome.

00:05:04 ◼   ► This is the last time we talk about teletext.

00:05:05 ◼   ► No, please don't make it the last time.

00:05:07 ◼   ► Keep sending these devices.

00:05:09 ◼   ► This one, listener Axel Roden, his dad was an IBM employee, or their dad, I don't know what gender is appropriate here.

00:05:20 ◼   ► But basically this is a computer modem and a 10 inch black and white CRT screen.

00:05:25 ◼   ► And so there's a picture of this in a Wikipedia article that's not in English, but it looks kind of like an old computer with a telephone on top,

00:05:36 ◼   ► which is quite frankly adorable.

00:05:40 ◼   ► Awesome, amazing.

00:05:43 ◼   ► How many objectives do we need for the Teleguide?

00:05:48 ◼   ► Thank you Axel for dropping knowledge on the show.

00:05:55 ◼   ► I don't know what this Wikipedia page is saying.

00:05:59 ◼   ► I see IBM a couple times.

00:06:01 ◼   ► But it seems accurate based on the photos.

00:06:04 ◼   ► It seems like a great device.

00:06:08 ◼   ► Can you imagine working at this workstation, doing all the business here?

00:06:12 ◼   ► And if you get a phone call, you just pick the phone right up, like no problem.

00:06:16 ◼   ► I'm just on my own computer right now, buddy, how can I help?

00:06:20 ◼   ► Oh yeah, it's like, "Can you look at this for me?"

00:06:22 ◼   ► Yes I can.

00:06:23 ◼   ► I definitely can, because you know what?

00:06:26 ◼   ► You've called me on my teleguide.

00:06:28 ◼   ► I mean, this is so much better than when you're using an iPhone, like you're doing something,

00:06:34 ◼   ► checking Twitter and then you get a phone call. So you gotta stop looking at Twitter.

00:06:39 ◼   ► On this thing you could look at, I'm guessing, some kind of command line and also talk on

00:06:44 ◼   ► the phone. Can you imagine how much better our podcast would be if we could all just

00:06:48 ◼   ► talk to each other? Real innovation stopped with the Teleguide. Which is sad.

00:06:56 ◼   ► So while we're speaking about phones and computers, Myke, it turns out, is right this year.

00:07:05 ◼   ► So there's a whole list of links in here, one from Marco, one from me, one from our

00:07:10 ◼   ► friends at the Hello Internet podcast, and one from Jason at Six Colors, basically saying,

00:07:18 ◼   ► for the most part, except for Jason, that Myke was right.

00:07:20 ◼   ► The Six Plus has a lot to offer.

00:07:22 ◼   ► So spoiler alert for my post.

00:07:24 ◼   ► I ended up, I had a six plus if you guys remember

00:07:27 ◼   ► that I sort of had as a loner, that went back

00:07:30 ◼   ► and I missed it and so I bought one,

00:07:32 ◼   ► like mid upgrade cycle which is silly and foolish

00:07:35 ◼   ► but it was sort of a you only live once type moment.

00:07:39 ◼   ► I think Federico I was texting you from like the parking lot

00:07:42 ◼   ► of the Verizon store like I'm getting ready to do this.

00:07:45 ◼   ► If you're going to stop me now's the time

00:07:46 ◼   ► and you didn't stop me so.

00:07:48 ◼   ► - He didn't text me because he knows I would have stopped him

00:07:51 ◼   ► - I think I was sleeping.

00:07:52 ◼   ► - Like I told Stephen not to do it.

00:07:54 ◼   ► Even though I love the 6+ I just think it's so close.

00:07:57 ◼   ► But I'm so happy that you did it because Plus Club is awesome and we're happy to have you

00:08:02 ◼   ► in Plus Club.

00:08:06 ◼   ► I still haven't published my article.

00:08:09 ◼   ► I think it's coming real soon.

00:08:12 ◼   ► I chose to take my time, you know.

00:08:14 ◼   ► I like to do things slow.

00:08:17 ◼   ► I think it's coming up better in the end.

00:08:21 ◼   ► If I had published my piece like three weeks ago, I think I gained some sort of new perspective

00:08:29 ◼   ► on the device, which I think is ultimately beneficial to the article.

00:08:34 ◼   ► As usual, I'm kind of the last one to write about this stuff.

00:08:39 ◼   ► But I hope it'll be okay in the end.

00:08:42 ◼   ► So the posts and the links that we've got are pretty good in Jinyoung.

00:08:47 ◼   ► So Stephen is, you know, categorically saying that I'm right.

00:08:51 ◼   ► CGP Grey and Hello Internet said that I was right, which was fantastic.

00:08:54 ◼   ► I very much enjoyed listening to that.

00:08:56 ◼   ► Marco seems to be a little bit more on the fence, but I think leaning into Plus Club

00:09:01 ◼   ► territory.

00:09:03 ◼   ► And Jason just flat out, I'm very sad, he was just like, "No, I love my six."

00:09:08 ◼   ► But what I like about Jason's article is that he used some of my crazy theories that I have.

00:09:14 ◼   ► So I was happy with that.

00:09:16 ◼   ► Because I don't know if you guys have noticed this, but I have found the camera on the 6+

00:09:21 ◼   ► to be the buggiest part of the phone.

00:09:25 ◼   ► Sometimes the camera crashes when I take photos, sometimes it just will not take pictures.

00:09:30 ◼   ► No, no.

00:09:32 ◼   ► You haven't had that?

00:09:33 ◼   ► Not at all.

00:09:34 ◼   ► Okay.

00:09:35 ◼   ► I have to say this hasn't always been the way for me.

00:09:38 ◼   ► This has gotten worse over time.

00:09:41 ◼   ► My theory about this, because Jason's seen it, I think that Marco said that he'd had

00:09:46 ◼   ► seen some issues of it as well.

00:09:48 ◼   ► My theory is that there's something in the optical image stabilization, there's like

00:09:51 ◼   ► a bug in there and it maybe isn't recognized so quickly or it hasn't been recognized because

00:09:58 ◼   ► a lot of engineers in Apple aren't actually using the 6 Plus, so they're not recognizing

00:10:02 ◼   ► the bug.

00:10:03 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, I've seen it a couple of times.

00:10:07 ◼   ► My thought was that the 6 Plus is more RAM constrained

00:10:11 ◼   ► than the 6 'cause of the bigger display

00:10:13 ◼   ► and it's gotta do more and that maybe it's just taking,

00:10:16 ◼   ► reaching for memory that's not available at the moment.

00:10:20 ◼   ► But I've seen it from time to time,

00:10:21 ◼   ► definitely nothing consistent though.

00:10:23 ◼   ► But I guess we'll see if it gets worse over time.

00:10:26 ◼   ► - Yeah, so there you go.

00:10:27 ◼   ► I love that this is a thing that is happening,

00:10:31 ◼   ► that people are talking about the Plus again, seriously.

00:10:34 ◼   ► I think it's fantastic.

00:10:36 ◼   ► Because I, as the two of you, really really believe that this is the superior device.

00:10:42 ◼   ► Like I just categorically think that this is the better phone.

00:10:46 ◼   ► And for me that's based on a bias because I've not actually used a 6,

00:10:51 ◼   ► but you both have and you've both switched, so that like vindicates my feeling.

00:10:56 ◼   ► How does it feel Myke to be a pioneer?

00:10:58 ◼   ► It feels pretty good, you know.

00:11:00 ◼   ► Because it's one of those things that I guess that in our little world I was the one,

00:11:04 ◼   ► you know, everyone was laughing at me and I was like no no guys seriously trust me and it's taken a while but

00:11:10 ◼   ► But you've ended up coming around to our way of thinking which is great. I am a pioneer

00:11:14 ◼   ► I do feel like a pioneer Federico. It's a really great way of describing my current mental

00:11:18 ◼   ► You're kind of like the the Harry Potter of big phones

00:11:22 ◼   ► You're kind of ruining it for me now. You're the chosen one. Oh, I like that again. I liked I like pioneer

00:11:29 ◼   ► I like chosen one. I didn't like Harry Potter of big phones

00:11:33 ◼   ► that of the three that was my favourite.

00:11:35 ◼   ► - What do you like Harry Potter?

00:11:37 ◼   ► - I like Harry Potter, I just don't wanna be called

00:11:39 ◼   ► the Harry Potter of big phones.

00:11:41 ◼   ► It's not, it just doesn't sit very highly.

00:11:46 ◼   ► - I would explain the weird scar on your head.

00:11:48 ◼   ► - It would indeed, I dropped a phone on my face.

00:11:51 ◼   ► And then that's it.

00:11:54 ◼   ► Right, let's take a quick break,

00:11:55 ◼   ► we have so much to talk about today.

00:11:57 ◼   ► I'm really excited to talk about 1Password from Agile Bits.

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00:12:02 ◼   ► And this is one of those things this week

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00:15:08 ◼   ► Topic... it was gonna be topic zero, but then it sort of

00:15:12 ◼   ► exploded.

00:15:14 ◼   ► Topic one this week is the new MacBook. So reviews dropped today.

00:15:18 ◼   ► Myke, you just got off the air with Jason doing a special episode of upgrade about the MacBook.

00:15:23 ◼   ► He has a review on Macworld and then like a commentary on his site.

00:15:29 ◼   ► There's a link to the Verge review which includes a pretty nice video

00:15:34 ◼   ► You can actually see and actually we're gonna get to it

00:15:36 ◼   ► But you can hear the MacBook where the keyboard sounds and then there's a wired

00:15:40 ◼   ► Review as well, so

00:15:44 ◼   ► You know, it's it's kind of funny like yesterday. We're obviously gonna get to the watch

00:15:48 ◼   ► But yesterday was watch day and today's like oh, yeah, the MacBook is real - don't forget about me. But um

00:15:56 ◼   ► What are y'all's impressions from starting to see people's reviews of this thing?

00:16:01 ◼   ► I'll let Myke go first.

00:16:04 ◼   ► I think it looks pretty and there are many things about the device that are interesting for me.

00:16:10 ◼   ► I love that the size of the screen in a body that's smaller than the 11 inch, right?

00:16:16 ◼   ► That is such an appealing idea and as like as a portable machine, it sounds fantastic.

00:16:20 ◼   ► But the kind of overall feeling that I've got, especially from talking to Jason, is it's kind of like

00:16:26 ◼   ► Like, nah.

00:16:29 ◼   ► You know, there are good things about it, like there are some really nice things about

00:16:33 ◼   ► it, but there are also some things about it that kind of suck, like Jason hates the keyboard,

00:16:39 ◼   ► which I'm interested to try out.

00:16:41 ◼   ► But it's, you know, the One USB thing still seems a bit like, ah, it just seems like such

00:16:47 ◼   ► a pain.

00:16:48 ◼   ► Like, in Jason's review he spoke about trying to use Migration Assistant and he had to get

00:16:53 ◼   ► like two dongles and an ethernet cable to try and use migration assistant and

00:16:58 ◼   ► it's like I just it just seems frustrating and I you know I don't

00:17:03 ◼   ► really have a desire for this laptop for a different laptop my laptop's fine I

00:17:08 ◼   ► love it I don't need a second laptop like it's just not something that I

00:17:12 ◼   ► require I can see why it would be a good machine for a bunch of people but the

00:17:16 ◼   ► thing is it's just not the machine for me but I can appreciate why some people

00:17:20 ◼   ► might like it, it's just not something that I'm running out to buy.

00:17:23 ◼   ► So for me, it is a little complicated because I am in the market for a new Mac.

00:17:32 ◼   ► Because obvious reasons I own, um, 2011 Mac MacBook Air and I want to buy a new Mac.

00:17:42 ◼   ► But more importantly, I need to buy a new Mac because it's been, I'm guessing more

00:17:49 ◼   ► than a year at this point that my MacBook is missing the E key on my keyboard.

00:17:57 ◼   ► And I didn't bother fixing it or taking it to the Apple store because I know I will have

00:18:03 ◼   ► to pay and I'm just using my MacBook twice a week to record two shows with you guys.

00:18:10 ◼   ► And so it's just there, you know, and I know that eventually it is going to die.

00:18:16 ◼   ► it is gonna, you know, maybe I will miss more keys or maybe the trackpad will start having

00:18:20 ◼   ► some kind of issue.

00:18:22 ◼   ► So I know that I need to buy a new Mac because I mean, even if only twice a week, I still

00:18:27 ◼   ► need a Mac because, you know, I cannot record shows on the iPad and I don't know, maybe

00:18:34 ◼   ► there's those just couple of tasks that I need to do on a Mac, just occasionally.

00:18:40 ◼   ► Doesn't happen very often lately but it still happens.

00:18:43 ◼   ► Maybe I need to log into my dumb bank website that doesn't allow me to print a PDF on iOS,

00:18:50 ◼   ► but it still happens occasionally.

00:18:52 ◼   ► So I need a Mac, even if for short amounts of time.

00:18:59 ◼   ► And this MacBook could be the kind of Mac that I like, because it's kind of like an

00:19:03 ◼   ► iPad, in the sense that it's really light and it cuts down all the power user features.

00:19:09 ◼   ► I don't need ports, I don't need external displays, I don't need, I don't know,

00:19:14 ◼   ► fusion drives and that kind of complex stuff that you get on more serious Macs.

00:19:19 ◼   ► The problem is that, actually two problems, one is not exactly cheap, but I could save a little and then get this MacBook.

00:19:32 ◼   ► The problem is that I don't want to get the first generation of this MacBook, because if the MacBook Air is of an indication,

00:19:38 ◼   ► I need to wait for the second or third revision.

00:19:42 ◼   ► So because I'm not the kind of guy who needs a Mac on a daily basis, and I'm not the kind

00:19:46 ◼   ► of guy who wants to buy a Mac every year, like I buy an iPhone or an iPad every year,

00:19:52 ◼   ► I don't want to upgrade my Mac next year, if I buy this MacBook this year.

00:19:57 ◼   ► So I want to make sure that the next MacBook I'm buying is in a way future proof.

00:20:01 ◼   ► I want to make sure that in four years or five years from now it is still the MacBook

00:20:06 ◼   ► I can use.

00:20:07 ◼   ► So I'm really torn here because I want to use this MacBook, the new MacBook, because

00:20:13 ◼   ► I love the idea of first touch, I love the extreme portability, I love the retina display,

00:20:19 ◼   ► but I also kind of am concerned because I'm wondering if I wait until next year, if I

00:20:26 ◼   ► really make my MacBook Air die eventually of a slow and progressive death, if I just

00:20:33 ◼   ► wait until next year and if I wait until the second generation of the new MacBook will

00:20:39 ◼   ► I be in a better position five years from now. That's my suggestion.

00:20:44 ◼   ► If I was you I would wait until the heirs get a rev and get one of those.

00:20:49 ◼   ► I agree.

00:20:50 ◼   ► Because I think that the MacBook, that MacBook, the power that you'll get in there will not

00:20:57 ◼   ► be good for you in a couple of years time.

00:20:58 ◼   ► But will I get a Retina display on the new MacBook Airs?

00:21:03 ◼   ► Because I really want that.

00:21:05 ◼   ► Yeah, I don't want to have the eventually on.

00:21:11 ◼   ► I would expect you would get a Retina display on a MacBook Air sooner than you would get

00:21:16 ◼   ► the new MacBook in a power requirement that you would need.

00:21:23 ◼   ► So a couple of things, and we'll make it back to the reviews in a second, but you were always

00:21:28 ◼   ► going to play the eventual game buying, especially from Apple, it's just kind of the way that

00:21:36 ◼   ► it works.

00:21:37 ◼   ► "Oh, we gotta wait until they hit 1GHz, oh I'm gonna wait until they switch to Intel,

00:21:40 ◼   ► oh I'm gonna wait until they go to SSD."

00:21:42 ◼   ► You're always waiting.

00:21:44 ◼   ► Will the MacBook Air ever get random displays?

00:21:46 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:21:47 ◼   ► My thought is the MacBook Air line will actually probably go away or somehow be something different

00:21:53 ◼   ► than it is today, you know, long term.

00:21:56 ◼   ► way I view it is if you need a machine today say that Macbook Air finally dies

00:22:00 ◼   ► tonight when we're done. No it doesn't die tonight, come on. But just say that it

00:22:05 ◼   ► does or say it dies tomorrow. No. What is... I refuse. It's a hypothetical. When your computer dies, what do you buy?

00:22:18 ◼   ► And I agree with Myke that something like a base model 13-inch Macbook Air

00:22:23 ◼   ► might be a better fit for you than the MacBook. Clearly the MacBook is driven

00:22:27 ◼   ► somebody who is super portable and is space constrained you know in multiple

00:22:35 ◼   ► ways and what they carry maybe where they use the computer that's really you

00:22:40 ◼   ► know who comes to mind for me someone who's on the road you know for their

00:22:44 ◼   ► job day in and day out you know on airplanes in cars etc for that sort of

00:22:49 ◼   ► usage I think the MacBook makes a lot of sense it's got pretty good battery life

00:22:53 ◼   ► it's you know physically very small very light and is you know like in the in the

00:22:58 ◼   ► verge article like dude is just like walking down the street carrying under

00:23:02 ◼   ► his arm like somebody might carry a folder or an iPad I think carrying a

00:23:07 ◼   ► laptop under your arm in New York City is probably asking for trouble but they

00:23:11 ◼   ► didn't ask me so I think the MacBook Air is probably still for the average user

00:23:16 ◼   ► or you know the slightly above average user is still the you know the sub

00:23:22 ◼   ► $1,500 notebook to buy. Will you know will the MacBook improve power wise? I

00:23:29 ◼   ► think it will. I don't think we're ever going to see a second port on the thing.

00:23:32 ◼   ► Like I just you know people go they're going to add a second port next year. I

00:23:35 ◼   ► really don't think they will. I think that they've made a statement with this

00:23:38 ◼   ► machine and yes the MacBook Air you know so the original MacBook Air we talked

00:23:44 ◼   ► about this couple weeks ago came out one USB port micro DVI and headphone jack

00:23:48 ◼   ► Jack that was it and then in 2010 or 2011 whenever it was they rev the

00:23:55 ◼   ► MacBook Air, changed the form factor, added more USB ports, ended up

00:24:01 ◼   ► with Thunderbolt down the road, SD card slot, you know the MacBook Air became

00:24:04 ◼   ► more but in that transition the MacBook Air went from the high end of the line

00:24:08 ◼   ► it was very expensive to the low end overnight so the MacBook Air kind of

00:24:12 ◼   ► became the default machine for a lot of people and I don't see the MacBook doing

00:24:18 ◼   ► The MacBook already is pretty close to the bottom of the line price-wise.

00:24:22 ◼   ► It competes with the MacBook Air at a few points.

00:24:27 ◼   ► I really think they're staging it as a third line, at least for the next couple years.

00:24:33 ◼   ► I agree with you that buying a MacBook today for most people isn't a good answer, but I

00:24:37 ◼   ► don't know that the answer is going to become more clear in two years.

00:24:40 ◼   ► I just don't see where that ends up.

00:24:46 ◼   ► I'm really sure about this. My next MacBook is gonna have a Retina display. There's no way I'm

00:24:53 ◼   ► buying... Do you have to get a laptop? Well, for the shows I do. What if I'm on vacation and I

00:24:59 ◼   ► need to record a show? Oh right, okay, yeah, that makes sense. Do I just take a Mac Mini with me? No,

00:25:04 ◼   ► I forgot that you might, that sometimes you record from remote locations. Because I was wondering

00:25:10 ◼   ► that because you don't need portability in most instances like many people do because

00:25:15 ◼   ► you have that sewn up already you know but I get what you mean like sometimes you do

00:25:20 ◼   ► record from other places.

00:25:21 ◼   ► >> Like the bathroom.

00:25:22 ◼   ► >> Yeah and there's no way I'm getting a lower resolution display again.

00:25:28 ◼   ► >> Yeah.

00:25:29 ◼   ► >> So.

00:25:30 ◼   ► >> Hey.

00:25:31 ◼   ► >> I don't know.

00:25:32 ◼   ► >> I don't want to get a MacBook Pro.

00:25:33 ◼   ► >> I was just about to say.

00:25:34 ◼   ► >> It is wasted on me.

00:25:36 ◼   ► I don't need a MacBook Pro and I don't want a MacBook Air if it doesn't have a high resolution

00:25:42 ◼   ► display.

00:25:43 ◼   ► So either I wait or I get a MacBook and I'm gonna regret it for the next five years or

00:25:51 ◼   ► again I keep using the MacBook Air and I keep torturing the MacBook Air and watching it

00:25:58 ◼   ► die slowly, sadistically.

00:26:02 ◼   ► And see that I'm just gonna wait here and you know for the day when eventually the MacBook

00:26:10 ◼   ► will say goodbye and I'll be like okay whatever I'm getting a MacBook because it's enough.

00:26:17 ◼   ► It's kind of sad when you think about it.

00:26:20 ◼   ► It is a little bit.

00:26:21 ◼   ► I mean I've seen pictures of that thing it's in pretty sorry shape but you know but you

00:26:27 ◼   ► know even going back second and we've talked about this at length but you know your use

00:26:31 ◼   ► cases for the Mac of restoring iOS devices and recording podcasts and doing

00:26:36 ◼   ► those things you know it's it's you are closer to being able to use a MacBook

00:26:41 ◼   ► than someone like I am where I have a MacBook Pro and it's plugged into all

00:26:44 ◼   ► sorts of crazy things all day every day it is a for the most part of desktop

00:26:48 ◼   ► replacement and yes right now I'm using it in a dark room with a microphone

00:26:52 ◼   ► hooked up to it and power but you know I drive external displays and have

00:26:57 ◼   ► external drives and all this stuff you know the majority of the time so you're

00:27:01 ◼   ► closer I think than the mic or I but you know even hearing you say well it's not

00:27:07 ◼   ► quite enough computer you know I'm gonna run into these limitations that's really

00:27:13 ◼   ► interesting I really think that paints the picture of who it is for it's you

00:27:16 ◼   ► know people who don't even do as many things with the Mac as you do I think

00:27:20 ◼   ► that like the MacBook would be perfect for Federico right now but I don't think

00:27:25 ◼   ► it would last him for five years I think that's the only problem otherwise I

00:27:29 ◼   ► I would say I think you should get it.

00:27:31 ◼   ► But if part of it is you wanna have a machine

00:27:34 ◼   ► for another four or five years,

00:27:36 ◼   ► I don't know if this is the right one then.

00:27:40 ◼   ► - Yep, that's the problem.

00:27:42 ◼   ► - That's my only thing.

00:27:43 ◼   ► It's like I don't, that machine is gonna be

00:27:46 ◼   ► really, really hurting in a couple of years time.

00:27:49 ◼   ► But it's like I said, it would depend on what happens

00:27:53 ◼   ► with the next rev of all of those machines.

00:27:55 ◼   ► So maybe you wait another year if you can.

00:27:59 ◼   ► If poor little MacBook Air can do it. Yeah, if the MacBook can. I'm gonna wait.

00:28:03 ◼   ► That's my strategy.

00:28:06 ◼   ► The only thing I wanted to touch on in the reviews, just a couple comments that

00:28:10 ◼   ► kind of everybody said is that

00:28:11 ◼   ► you know it can get warm but no one seemed to really think that it gets like

00:28:15 ◼   ► scorching hot. That's kind of the beauty of the

00:28:18 ◼   ► of the Intel Core N that they're using. It's very low power, very low heat output.

00:28:23 ◼   ► That it is truly silent because there's no fan, there's no hard drive, it's you know

00:28:27 ◼   ► very iPad-like. There's even, Jason mentions it and it's in the Verge video where you plug

00:28:32 ◼   ► it in and it shows the iOS battery charging icon, like you know the green filling up,

00:28:39 ◼   ► very iPad-like. Yeah and it chimes, it gives the little bling noise when you plug the...

00:28:47 ◼   ► Wow. Yeah. Wow, that's... Yeah, because there's no color anymore on the... There's no indication,

00:28:54 ◼   ► right? There's no visual indication that you're charging, like that you'd see. So

00:28:58 ◼   ► now when you plug it in it makes the iOS noise of plugging in a charge. There's no LED for the, on the

00:29:03 ◼   ► MagSafe because there's no MagSafe anymore. The other thing that I really

00:29:07 ◼   ► walked away with, this is from from Jason, saying that the he was not a fan of the

00:29:15 ◼   ► keyboard that, you know, that is a compromise to make the computer thinner

00:29:20 ◼   ► and he hopes Apple views it as that and this keyboard doesn't spread to the

00:29:24 ◼   ► other products. Although guys like Jim at The Loop and other reviewers like

00:29:29 ◼   ► the keyboard. So I think it's definitely going to be one of those

00:29:32 ◼   ► personal things. I hope to go play with one in the coming weeks to type on one

00:29:37 ◼   ► to see how it's like. But I do think that this keyboard is going to spread to

00:29:42 ◼   ► other Macs. I believe that Apple really thinks this is a superior keyboard for

00:29:49 ◼   ► most people you know yeah and I'm all for you know all I can think of I think

00:29:54 ◼   ► I said last week is when I type on my MacBook Pro all I can think about is how the

00:29:57 ◼   ► keys are like flying off in different directions because that slow-motion

00:30:00 ◼   ► video Apple did like it really ruined me mentally in a way that is very deep and

00:30:05 ◼   ► profound well but I I do want to try it out you know but even saying this like I

00:30:11 ◼   ► remember when they went to the chiclet style on the original MacBook I was like

00:30:14 ◼   ► oh I don't want this the power the MacBook Pro and the power book like

00:30:18 ◼   ► those had superior keyboards and they change over time and you get used to it

00:30:21 ◼   ► so it's you know one of those things that I think even if they do change

00:30:27 ◼   ► people get used to I think that Jason were to continue to use this system he

00:30:31 ◼   ► would get used to it but it's just something interesting that it seems to

00:30:34 ◼   ► be a bigger difference than then maybe I thought it would be and on the verge

00:30:38 ◼   ► video and it's obviously it's mic it's not a lot it's not loud like a

00:30:42 ◼   ► mechanical keyboard but it sounds very different than my macbook pro which even

00:30:47 ◼   ► sounds different than the aluminum Bluetooth keyboards that I use at my desk and a very

00:30:52 ◼   ► different sound which I also was not, I didn't really think about beforehand so it's clearly

00:30:56 ◼   ► a very different experience typing on this thing and one I hope that if they do spread

00:31:02 ◼   ► to other devices that it's worth the adjustment.

00:31:06 ◼   ► What's up with the obsession of some tech people with keyboards that make loud noises?

00:31:14 ◼   ► Do they share their apartments or houses with other people?

00:31:20 ◼   ► Because anytime I'm typing and I'm making loud noises, my girlfriend or whoever's in

00:31:28 ◼   ► the house complains because it's not a pleasant noise to hear.

00:31:31 ◼   ► Right.

00:31:32 ◼   ► So I typed on an Apple extended 2G board for years, up until I had surgery on my elbow

00:31:40 ◼   ► a couple years ago and I had to move away from it.

00:31:43 ◼   ► And I typed on it because it was extremely comfortable for my hands and I could be very

00:31:49 ◼   ► fast on it.

00:31:51 ◼   ► The noise was like a nerdy bonus, but it wasn't...

00:31:55 ◼   ► So you liked it?

00:31:56 ◼   ► I didn't...

00:31:57 ◼   ► Yeah, I liked the way it felt and I liked the speed I could do.

00:32:00 ◼   ► Now the pressure required for the keys is too much for me because I'm old and brittle.

00:32:07 ◼   ► But I think for a lot of people it's the feel and it's the speed they can do.

00:32:10 ◼   ► The sound again is nice.

00:32:12 ◼   ► It is, you know, the Apple X-Tinted 2 is quite loud and is definitely not the loudest thing

00:32:17 ◼   ► on the market.

00:32:19 ◼   ► And so if you're in an open office like I am at work or, you know, working at home on

00:32:23 ◼   ► an iMac or something and you have family members around, they're gonna be driven insane slowly

00:32:29 ◼   ► by your typing.

00:32:30 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:32:31 ◼   ► I mean I guess I just don't understand why would you purposefully go find a loud keyboard,

00:32:36 ◼   ► you know?

00:32:37 ◼   ► Yeah, I think it's a side effect.

00:32:38 ◼   ► I guess usually you just try to find technology that is silent and quiet and

00:32:44 ◼   ► doesn't make you know a big loud mess and instead of some people who are kind of

00:32:49 ◼   ► obsessed with it. So maybe you could get the MacBook and then you USB-C to regular USB and

00:32:56 ◼   ► USB to ADB and you can use your Apple Xsenda 2. What did you just say? You have to jump

00:33:01 ◼   ► through two adapters. You just said the alphabet. I'll find a picture for the

00:33:06 ◼   ► I hooked my extended 2 up to a up to my iPad once and it was awesome and

00:33:11 ◼   ► Then I realized that I was a crazy person

00:33:13 ◼   ► You are so anything else on the MacBook? None of us are buying it

00:33:18 ◼   ► None of us seem super interested at this point, but we're gonna wait and see is that the consensus? Yeah

00:33:25 ◼   ► Yeah, I'm gonna take a look at it

00:33:26 ◼   ► I'm interested to see what the keyboard looks like and feels like I'm interested to see what the machine looks like in general, but

00:33:32 ◼   ► I

00:33:34 ◼   ► I don't have a desire for a second laptop. Like it's not something that I need so it's just not my machine, you know.

00:33:40 ◼   ► It's not something that you're looking at you have a Mac Pro, you have a MacBook Pro,

00:33:46 ◼   ► you're not tempted to sell the MacBook Pro and move to this because of the tower even?

00:33:50 ◼   ► If I use my Mac Pro like most people use their Mac Pros then I probably would think about it but

00:33:59 ◼   ► My Mac Pro is very much it has its job that it does and that's all it does, you know

00:34:04 ◼   ► Right everything else I do on the MacBook Pro. Gotcha. Okay

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00:35:58 ◼   ► Let's talk about the watch. Yeah so reviews came out uh I wasn't expecting reviews until like

00:36:07 ◼   ► to maybe like today it came out maybe slightly earlier than I've expected I don't know what the

00:36:14 ◼   ► the trend is on these things. I guess they just had too much going on at once

00:36:17 ◼   ► so they spread them out a bit right? So they went out two days where they, one day

00:36:21 ◼   ► where the Embargoes left on a bunch of different projects. And I haven't

00:36:27 ◼   ► having been away I haven't delved into a lot of them. I have watched the

00:36:32 ◼   ► Verges review and I have read John Gruber's review. I think I read like 10

00:36:39 ◼   ► of them yesterday. I'm kind of exhausted. What was your favorite?

00:36:44 ◼   ► Huh that's a good question. I really liked John's during Fireball. I think it was a

00:36:54 ◼   ► good mix of like the perspective of a watch person and also the perspective of

00:37:00 ◼   ► a tech guy you know. I think it was a good balance between the two. There's

00:37:07 ◼   ► There's others that I linked on MacStories that I really liked.

00:37:11 ◼   ► There was one from... just trying to remember the name of the website...

00:37:18 ◼   ► Liz Plosser, she writes for Self Magazine.

00:37:24 ◼   ► She basically gave birth to a baby boy just 5 days before getting an Apple Watch review

00:37:30 ◼   ► unit.

00:37:31 ◼   ► So she's of course, she's kind of busy and she has a very active lifestyle.

00:37:36 ◼   ► And I found her perspective really fascinating, because she's using a watch as a new mom,

00:37:42 ◼   ► and she's busy, she's always running around for her family, and to read about the watch,

00:37:52 ◼   ► monitoring activity in this context was kind of different from the usual tech review.

00:37:58 ◼   ► Also I didn't exactly, it's not that I didn't like it, I didn't fully get the angle that

00:38:06 ◼   ► the Verge was going for.

00:38:09 ◼   ► I liked the video, I think it was very well made, but I still kinda don't fully get what

00:38:17 ◼   ► Neil Aipatale was after.

00:38:19 ◼   ► There was a part of the video that I really didn't like, which was when they were in the

00:38:23 ◼   ► bar and he was talking with the editor in chief of Eater.

00:38:30 ◼   ► And I didn't really understand what his point was like I'm getting too many notifications

00:38:36 ◼   ► so it makes me realize that I miss people like I didn't really understand.

00:38:41 ◼   ► It's like dude that is totally within your control to turn off what notifications you

00:38:47 ◼   ► don't want.

00:38:48 ◼   ► This is exactly the point that I want to discuss with you guys.

00:38:54 ◼   ► And this is not just from The Verge, but I think The Verge hits this point stronger than

00:39:01 ◼   ► other websites.

00:39:04 ◼   ► What's the deal with complaining about notifications when you are in control of notifications?

00:39:10 ◼   ► So Nilay complains about the fact that the watch is constantly pinging with emails, texts,

00:39:18 ◼   ► slack updates, Twitter.

00:39:20 ◼   ► Why he says his Instagram likes?

00:39:23 ◼   ► Like you don't need push notifications for Instagram likes.

00:39:27 ◼   ► Especially because he's a tech guy and he knows how to fiddle around with settings.

00:39:32 ◼   ► And also I would argue that most people, not necessarily tech people, at least from what

00:39:39 ◼   ► What I see from my friends and my family, they are not stupid.

00:39:43 ◼   ► They are not the kind of people that you would imagine by reading tech blogs or twitter that

00:39:48 ◼   ► they just say yes to everything.

00:39:50 ◼   ► All the people I know, every dialogue they get, they think about it.

00:39:54 ◼   ► They think about allowing notifications.

00:39:56 ◼   ► They think about allowing location because they know that these dialogues can lead in

00:40:01 ◼   ► the future to disturbing stuff like you get too many notifications or maybe an app is

00:40:05 ◼   ► constantly checking your location for whatever reason.

00:40:08 ◼   ► So there is a basic error in believing that most people, and by most people I mean this

00:40:15 ◼   ► average consumer that is often referred to by the tech press as some kind of mythical

00:40:21 ◼   ► beast, the average consumer is not stupid, is not dumb and doesn't say okay to everything.

00:40:28 ◼   ► That said, you are in control of notifications.

00:40:31 ◼   ► You can toggle them on and off and I think that's really the point.

00:40:34 ◼   ► What if you buy an Apple Watch and you start wearing the watch and you get no notifications

00:40:40 ◼   ► because the default behavior is to opt-in?

00:40:45 ◼   ► So in that case, the experience for most people would be worse because you buy a watch and

00:40:53 ◼   ► you start wearing the watch with some sort of expectation of the watch displaying notifications,

00:40:58 ◼   ► but then because the default behavior is opt-in, you need to go into an app and enable notifications.

00:41:03 ◼   ► Instead, because the default behavior is to opt out, you start getting notifications right

00:41:09 ◼   ► away and you can always turn them off.

00:41:12 ◼   ► So I kind of don't understand the perspective of The Verge.

00:41:14 ◼   ► It seems to me like it's the... some kind of a syndrome from the average tech guy who

00:41:24 ◼   ► enables all sorts of notifications, with the difference that on the iPhone, over the years,

00:41:30 ◼   ► have learned how to deal with them, they have learned how to ignore notifications on the

00:41:36 ◼   ► iPhone.

00:41:37 ◼   ► On the watch, because it's new, it's like "Oh my god, I'm getting all these notifications!"

00:41:42 ◼   ► You already get all these notifications on your iPhone.

00:41:45 ◼   ► So I'm really puzzled by this angle.

00:41:48 ◼   ► I really liked the overall of the video, I thought it was really good, I thought some

00:41:53 ◼   ► of the criticism I had was really good.

00:41:56 ◼   ► showing it like they were showing some just like weird like loading like

00:42:01 ◼   ► everything seems like it's a slow and needed to load right so that was like

00:42:04 ◼   ► okay that looked interesting but he was trying to I think he was trying to hit a

00:42:10 ◼   ► philosophical point which didn't really land for me which was like now I see now

00:42:16 ◼   ► I'm tapped on the wrist about his notifications it makes me realize how

00:42:20 ◼   ► much I ignore people. It's like, no man, like, it vibrates in your pocket already, like it's

00:42:26 ◼   ► totally fine. I can see what he was, I can see he was trying to get somewhere but it

00:42:35 ◼   ► just didn't land for me and that was, that's my only criticism for what I thought was a

00:42:40 ◼   ► good review but I think it was a pretty big point he was trying to make.

00:42:45 ◼   ► And again, I find it personally, I don't want to criticize the way that the Verge assigns

00:42:51 ◼   ► scores, because they are still using a score-based system for their reviews.

00:42:55 ◼   ► I don't want to criticize the way that they choose votes.

00:42:59 ◼   ► But it seems to me a little strange that the Apple Watch gets a 7 and the Motorola 360

00:43:06 ◼   ► gets an 8.1.

00:43:09 ◼   ► I don't know, because I don't have a watch.

00:43:12 ◼   ► But again, it sounds like this aspect of the notifications, it had a big role in getting

00:43:18 ◼   ► the score down, and I sort of don't understand, because it again, feels to me like he's a

00:43:25 ◼   ► tech guy with too many notifications, too many apps, and the watch makes him realize

00:43:30 ◼   ► that he has too many apps and notifications, but that's not really a problem of the watch,

00:43:34 ◼   ► maybe he should curate a little bit more the list of apps that send him notifications.

00:43:40 ◼   ► There was one thing that Neil I said that I thought was really, I really agree with.

00:43:46 ◼   ► The fact that the watch doesn't come with a stand or anything.

00:43:49 ◼   ► It's kind of just like, here's a cable, go at it.

00:43:53 ◼   ► It feels like there should be more in the box.

00:43:57 ◼   ► Like akin to what the, you know, your first iPod, right, had a bunch of stuff in the box.

00:44:02 ◼   ► And I think that there should be something a little bit more like that this time.

00:44:07 ◼   ► Something basic even.

00:44:08 ◼   ► but it feels like just saying here's your cable,

00:44:09 ◼   ► here's your watch, go at it, does feel a bit.

00:44:12 ◼   ► - Yeah, I agree with that, yeah.

00:44:14 ◼   ► - So a couple of things.

00:44:16 ◼   ► I too do not want to get into the why scoring things

00:44:22 ◼   ► and reviews is a bad idea.

00:44:24 ◼   ► - Yep.

00:44:25 ◼   ► - But I would say in their defense

00:44:26 ◼   ► that those devices came out at separate times

00:44:29 ◼   ► and answer separate questions to separate markets.

00:44:32 ◼   ► I don't think they're a direct comparison.

00:44:34 ◼   ► Anyways, I think you and I had a misunderstanding

00:44:37 ◼   ► Twitter because I think you were like

00:44:38 ◼   ► yeah we get a final connected and you

00:44:41 ◼   ► know I agree with you that for most

00:44:43 ◼   ► people the experience of if notifications

00:44:46 ◼   ► were opt-in my watch isn't doing

00:44:48 ◼   ► anything and that's bad and I agree with

00:44:51 ◼   ► you that anyone who has Instagram likes

00:44:55 ◼   ► on on their phone and pushed to their

00:44:57 ◼   ► watch have no room to complain that they

00:44:59 ◼   ► have too many notifications because

00:45:01 ◼   ► that's a ridiculous notification to

00:45:02 ◼   ► leave on especially if you're popular

00:45:04 ◼   ► like I assume Eli Patel is on Instagram. What I think what he was driving at and

00:45:11 ◼   ► I think they exaggerate it to make the point is that there is a social

00:45:18 ◼   ► awkwardness around checking your watch. We spoke about this months ago on the

00:45:22 ◼   ► show where you know if I'm in a meeting and I look down at my watch if anyone

00:45:27 ◼   ► notices me doing that they're gonna think that I'm bored or that I'm trying

00:45:30 ◼   ► to end the meeting or that you know I've double booked I need to get somewhere

00:45:34 ◼   ► and is generally perceived as something as a rude gesture, especially in my world

00:45:42 ◼   ► as meetings right now with work. So I think that's what he was driving toward

00:45:46 ◼   ► and I think they exaggerated it. He said it right back then.

00:45:50 ◼   ► I agree with that. I understand that point. It was the second half of that little skit that

00:45:55 ◼   ► Right. Oh yeah, the whole thing was cheesy. But I think they exaggerated it to make

00:46:00 ◼   ► the point that the way I view it and the way that you know we're gonna talk about

00:46:05 ◼   ► the apps in a second the way I think about the watch more and more as

00:46:08 ◼   ► pre-orders are just now a couple hours away is that I think my interaction with

00:46:14 ◼   ► the watch and apps and notifications is going to be extremely limited I really

00:46:19 ◼   ► depending on how you know depending on how fine grained the control is I'm not

00:46:23 ◼   ► gonna have a lot of stuff hit my wrist I already have most notifications on my

00:46:27 ◼   ► phone turned off. I have you know a lot of stuff to manually check and emails

00:46:33 ◼   ► aren't coming in and lighting up my screen all day long and so I think that

00:46:38 ◼   ► if you're that sort of user where you already care about the notifications

00:46:43 ◼   ► that come to your phone I think the watch is gonna be even more so. Like I

00:46:47 ◼   ► really want my watch to vibrate if I have a task due, an alarm or my wife

00:46:51 ◼   ► sends me a text. Like very few things and very few people are gonna have the right

00:46:56 ◼   ► to make that thing go off at least at first and we'll see how how disruptive

00:47:02 ◼   ► it is and I think the idea of you looking at your watch in a meeting that

00:47:06 ◼   ► being rude is going to fade away very quickly because people are gonna have

00:47:09 ◼   ► smartwatches. I was about to make that I was gonna say that because I felt that

00:47:13 ◼   ► from what John Gruber was saying as well it's like yeah but it's just this is a

00:47:18 ◼   ► march of change like looking at your phone it was still can be a bit like hey

00:47:24 ◼   ► you got somewhere to be or whatever, it's still just something that people do and we all do it,

00:47:29 ◼   ► so we kind of let it go. So it's going to take a little bit of time, but looking at your wrist,

00:47:34 ◼   ► it's going to mean something new. Because that's the social behavior from the traditional watch

00:47:43 ◼   ► kind of people. You check the watch because you need to check the time. Now you will check the

00:47:47 ◼   ► watch to do all sorts of stuff. So it'll be different over time, I think. Right. And I

00:47:53 ◼   ► I think there will be that awkward phase where if you were an early iPhone owner like I was,

00:47:58 ◼   ► it was really awkward to have an iPhone at first.

00:48:02 ◼   ► And I was very hesitant to pull it out.

00:48:06 ◼   ► Not only because people would ask if that was the iPhone and want to see it, right?

00:48:09 ◼   ► Then you're drawing it into yourself in a social scene that I don't want at least, and

00:48:12 ◼   ► I don't want to be followed out and mugged by the guy at the other end of the bar.

00:48:16 ◼   ► But there's going to be that awkward phase, and I think it's going to be more pronounced

00:48:20 ◼   ► than it was with a smartphone because again people are already doing things on their phones.

00:48:26 ◼   ► Everyone sat in study hall and played snake on their Nokia, right?

00:48:29 ◼   ► Like it's just a thing people did.

00:48:32 ◼   ► I think we'll see how that goes.

00:48:33 ◼   ► I do think there's going to be a very awkward period for early adopters, not only socially

00:48:38 ◼   ► but you know the question of why is that any better.

00:48:42 ◼   ► I had that conversation with a co-worker just yesterday of some of us talking about the

00:48:46 ◼   ► several people at work are gonna be up at 2 a.m. to order it and she's like, "Well, why

00:48:51 ◼   ► would you do that? You can just do stuff on your phone." And the explanation of,

00:48:55 ◼   ► well, you know, you know, in theory it'll mean less time on your phone because, you

00:48:59 ◼   ► know, it's quick things and you can quickly check things and get back to your day.

00:49:01 ◼   ► That didn't really register as like a problem or a solution to the problem

00:49:06 ◼   ► that she didn't see existing. So I think there's gonna be a lot of that, like, you

00:49:11 ◼   ► having to justify to people that you bought one, which is insane, right? Like,

00:49:14 ◼   ► you really shouldn't matter but I think it will.

00:49:17 ◼   ► It's like going back to 2007 why do you need email on your phone?

00:49:21 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:49:22 ◼   ► It's all that idea right?

00:49:24 ◼   ► Just about to say that, thank you Myke.

00:49:26 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:49:27 ◼   ► We just, we see...

00:49:29 ◼   ► Or even better, why would you need a full web browser on your phone?

00:49:34 ◼   ► Yeah, exactly.

00:49:36 ◼   ► Like we either see the utility of it or we see, or we agree with what the marketing message is right?

00:49:43 ◼   ► messages right and when we see the marketing message it's like yeah that

00:49:46 ◼   ► resonates with me I think I would get use out of that and then kind of move on

00:49:51 ◼   ► from there like and then eventually it ends up pulling pulling people along

00:49:57 ◼   ► with everybody else you know yeah um so I thought I thought it'd be worthwhile

00:50:01 ◼   ► to talk about the what was my biggest depression and I think I think y'all's

00:50:08 ◼   ► as well from chatting over the last couple days. Of all these reviews you know they

00:50:14 ◼   ► all say battery life is pretty good you know you really got to push it to be out by

00:50:17 ◼   ► the end of the day that's good stuff but what almost everyone said is that

00:50:21 ◼   ► watch kit apps are slow especially when they're moving large amounts of data or

00:50:26 ◼   ► location information from the phone to the watch so to recap you know these

00:50:31 ◼   ► apps you know on the 24th you unbox your watch and you put Evernote and

00:50:35 ◼   ► overcast on it. Those aren't real apps, they're projections from the iPhone over

00:50:40 ◼   ► Bluetooth and Wi-Fi to your device. So it's not native code if the phone is

00:50:46 ◼   ► gone the watch is you know less useful. And that what we should have been

00:50:52 ◼   ► realizing all along and something that you know I didn't really think about too

00:50:55 ◼   ► deeply until these reviews came out is that that's a very slow way to do

00:50:58 ◼   ► computing. It's happening remotely, it's transferring over wireless which

00:51:02 ◼   ► it can have all sorts of issues and the Wi-Fi hiccups or you know your Bluetooth

00:51:06 ◼   ► drops out like I get in my car and once a week my car is just forgotten that my

00:51:10 ◼   ► iPhone exists and I have to go and repair it like that sort of stuff is

00:51:14 ◼   ► going to hamper these watch kit apps because they're they're tied they're

00:51:18 ◼   ► completely dependent on the phone. And also they're mostly images. Yeah yeah

00:51:23 ◼   ► you're just pushing a slideshow and so you know the question is and one that I

00:51:30 ◼   ► think will be answered over time is, is this going to hurt the watch's sort of

00:51:35 ◼   ► initial launch? That are people going to download these apps with expectations

00:51:39 ◼   ► that they will, you know, like, if someone's gonna buy an Apple Watch early on

00:51:43 ◼   ► they're probably nerdier than the average Joe, but most of them aren't in

00:51:48 ◼   ► the world that we live in of like getting talked to Underscore last week

00:51:52 ◼   ► about like the ins and outs of WatchKit and they're just gonna think, oh, you

00:51:55 ◼   ► know, this thing has apps and are those people going to be disappointed or

00:51:58 ◼   ► frustrated that these apps don't run the way that they think they should based on

00:52:03 ◼   ► having an iPhone for seven years. I don't know if that's gonna be a problem.

00:52:06 ◼   ► I think I will be. I think I'm gonna be frustrated.

00:52:09 ◼   ► I think that in the long run WatchKit apps will be remembered like we remember

00:52:14 ◼   ► web apps on the iPhone. Yeah. But for us...

00:52:18 ◼   ► It's the simple analog to make between the two. I agree with that.

00:52:21 ◼   ► For the first year or for the first six months, I don't know, we will be

00:52:26 ◼   ► annoyed by the limitations of the WatchKit apps.

00:52:30 ◼   ► Will it be a problem?

00:52:32 ◼   ► Like will it actually damage the reputation of the watch and the software of the watch?

00:52:38 ◼   ► I don't know because I'm not a genius.

00:52:45 ◼   ► I'm guessing that Apple will want developers to switch over to the native SDK as soon as

00:52:52 ◼   ► possible.

00:52:53 ◼   ► I wouldn't be surprised to... you know, the watch comes out in April and in not even six months

00:52:59 ◼   ► you get the upgrade to the native SDK and you get like a faster watch, you know,

00:53:05 ◼   ► magically almost, just with software updates. So maybe these first six months

00:53:11 ◼   ► will be annoying but according to I think a couple of reviews, Apple is

00:53:14 ◼   ► working on an update to make things a little faster at least, but it's not

00:53:21 ◼   ► available to reviewers right now. Which would be, you know, definitely

00:53:25 ◼   ► welcome and, you know, they still have two weeks to get that rolled out and,

00:53:30 ◼   ► you know, maybe that you open the watch and it's got an update immediately, which

00:53:32 ◼   ► is not a great user experience but they, you know, you can go buy a MacBook

00:53:36 ◼   ► Pro that still comes with, you know, Mavericks on it. The MacBooks,

00:53:40 ◼   ► they're shipping with 10.10.2. Yeah, I mean, 10.10.3 is out now, like it's...

00:53:47 ◼   ► Yeah, well, I mean, you know, things happen, they put them in a box and then they ship

00:53:50 ◼   ► them. So native apps I think will be a big part of it that you know you're not

00:53:55 ◼   ► relying on the phone to beam images over a wireless internet connection which

00:54:02 ◼   ► sounds like something out of the future but running locally on the S1 chipset

00:54:06 ◼   ► will definitely be faster I mean there's no way that it couldn't be really but

00:54:12 ◼   ► you know I do have that thought in the back of my mind that if we're going to

00:54:14 ◼   ► be you know we're gonna be annoyed that we're gonna know why and we're gonna

00:54:18 ◼   ► to know that there's a future coming that could be better.

00:54:22 ◼   ► And I just wonder about those other early adopters who might not be following this stuff

00:54:27 ◼   ► as closely if they're going to be unaware that that's going on.

00:54:33 ◼   ► Just think about this.

00:54:35 ◼   ► Most people, or maybe not most people, millions of people will want an Apple Watch for the

00:54:40 ◼   ► holiday season.

00:54:42 ◼   ► by Thanksgiving time or Christmas time the watch will likely have a native SDK.

00:54:49 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, yeah, similarly we'll see it this summer.

00:54:54 ◼   ► And also, I wouldn't be surprised if Apple called that Apple Watch OS 2 or whatever,

00:55:01 ◼   ► and so I think people know that Apple's products get better generation after generation, so

00:55:09 ◼   ► So it's like people said, "Oh, the first one's rubbish, but the next one will probably be

00:55:13 ◼   ► better because the first one's really slow, the apps are really slow."

00:55:16 ◼   ► But they're releasing OS/2 and it sounds like they've sped all the apps up.

00:55:23 ◼   ► I totally get your point, but I think now, by now, people are accustomed to the fact

00:55:30 ◼   ► that Apple's products get better over time.

00:55:33 ◼   ► So I think people might just think that's going to be the case anyway.

00:55:37 ◼   ► This is not going to help that thought process.

00:55:41 ◼   ► I hear it so many times, you hear it when the retina imac comes out of, "Oh, don't buy

00:55:44 ◼   ► a Gen 1 Apple product."

00:55:46 ◼   ► I hear that from normal, non-nerdy people who just casually follow the company.

00:55:51 ◼   ► Like, "Oh, don't buy the first one."

00:55:53 ◼   ► Also from me, just a few minutes ago.

00:55:55 ◼   ► Also from Federico, just a couple of minutes ago on this show, a premier Apple podcast.

00:56:01 ◼   ► We're giving you the same advice.

00:56:02 ◼   ► I'm sorry, everyone.

00:56:03 ◼   ► No, no.

00:56:04 ◼   ► - No, no, but I'm not saying that's a right or wrong assumption.

00:56:07 ◼   ► There are definitely cases where I think that's true.

00:56:10 ◼   ► Like I even thought it, and I maybe even said it about the retina iMac of like, "Ah, you

00:56:14 ◼   ► know, the first retina Macs have always been a little weird, like that first 15 inch, you

00:56:17 ◼   ► know, had image retention and issues."

00:56:21 ◼   ► But this is definitely not going to help that.

00:56:23 ◼   ► Like if Apple is not doing anything to shake that philosophy that people have.

00:56:30 ◼   ► But at the same time, like, this is the way technology works, that things evolve and things

00:56:36 ◼   ► get out into the world and they get iterated on and improved on.

00:56:40 ◼   ► Are we going to see watchOS 2.0 this summer with apps?

00:56:44 ◼   ► I think we will.

00:56:45 ◼   ► Are we going to see a faster Apple Watch in the fall or early next year with a faster

00:56:51 ◼   ► chipset, better processor, maybe that screen will be laminated?

00:56:56 ◼   ► I'm not so sure about but I do think that there is a you know there's a price to pay to be an early adopter that

00:57:02 ◼   ► you know we're gonna talk about it, but

00:57:03 ◼   ► At least one of us is going to be up that tonight or you know tomorrow morning

00:57:08 ◼   ► Ordering one of these things and there's always a cost associated with that

00:57:11 ◼   ► But I agree with you Myke

00:57:14 ◼   ► I think it I think it would be frustrating for us who know that a brighter future is around the corner

00:57:19 ◼   ► But I think too it might help balance

00:57:21 ◼   ► You know the I don't want to do a lot of stuff on this thing

00:57:24 ◼   ► You know and so maybe that the the awkwardness of watch kit will sort of like

00:57:28 ◼   ► Temper what I want to do with it day to day, so it's not all negative

00:57:32 ◼   ► I don't think it's just I think there's gonna be a perception issue with some users that Apple's gonna have to deal with

00:57:36 ◼   ► But the real question is can we have a funeral for Myke's pebble?

00:57:42 ◼   ► Yes, a little guy has a little relay FM watch face on him, you know, he's so cool

00:57:49 ◼   ► I'm gonna miss him because you know what?

00:57:51 ◼   ► I mean and this is one of those things like in reading Gruber's review and he

00:57:54 ◼   ► talks about like looking down and seeing the time. I get that with the purple.

00:58:00 ◼   ► Yeah that worries me on the Apple watch. Every time I look at the purple I see the

00:58:04 ◼   ► current time. Like it illuminates if I raise my wrist but you don't always need

00:58:09 ◼   ► it to illuminate. That is gonna be really frustrating. Like I can feel that I'm

00:58:14 ◼   ► gonna be annoyed by that.

00:58:16 ◼   ► serious question do you guys keep a traditional watch face or do you look at

00:58:23 ◼   ► time as a digital clock? I like digital clocks. Okay, same. I have one of these.

00:58:29 ◼   ► Steven, what about you? I have one of these. Steven uses an old pocket watch. So the watch I'm wearing today is a

00:58:36 ◼   ► Casio calculator watch so if we need to do some math after the show I can help

00:58:40 ◼   ► us out. We'll find a link in the show notes. The other watch I wear

00:58:47 ◼   ► that's a little bit dressier is a mechanical watch. It's you know

00:58:51 ◼   ► self-winding and it's you know black face with you know sweeping hands like

00:58:56 ◼   ► not digital at all. Nothing is digital about that watch. There's not even a

00:58:59 ◼   ► battery. So I like both as far as like what watch face I'm gonna end up on the

00:59:04 ◼   ► Apple Watch. I don't really know like I like the idea that I could put my next

00:59:08 ◼   ► calendar thing on there but is that going to be helpful long term or am I

00:59:11 ◼   ► going to end up with something simple? I'm really curious I think I'm gonna play a

00:59:15 ◼   ► lot with I think all of us will play a lot with watch faces on the Apple watch

00:59:19 ◼   ► until we kind of see what feels good. Yeah I just I just just thought you use

00:59:25 ◼   ► the sundial instead of the clock. So that's good to know. Thank you Stephen.

00:59:32 ◼   ► So it's you know so we have talked about in the past what we would be ordering

00:59:38 ◼   ► and it sounds like some of us have changed our minds a little bit.

00:59:41 ◼   ► So Federico, you sent us a very interesting screenshot in Slack earlier.

00:59:44 ◼   ► What are you doing?

00:59:46 ◼   ► Okay.

00:59:48 ◼   ► I feel like I need to prepare for...

00:59:50 ◼   ► Should we go back to the start of this story,

00:59:52 ◼   ► like to what happened between me and you yesterday?

00:59:55 ◼   ► Was it yesterday or the day before yesterday?

00:59:57 ◼   ► I think it was yesterday, actually.

01:00:00 ◼   ► So my plan was to ask Michael to buy an Apple Watch for me and of course from the UK and ship it to me to Italy.

01:00:14 ◼   ► And according to rumors and now according to Apple which has a press release out this morning,

01:00:21 ◼   ► there's going to be... the Apple Watch is only going to be available from online stores

01:00:27 ◼   ► and customers are limited to one watch per customer. At least that's what I heard. So,

01:00:34 ◼   ► of course, we went through some kind of back and forth with Myke because he was like, "I'm gonna

01:00:38 ◼   ► buy an Apple watch for you and I'm gonna ship it to you because it's my pleasure mate." You know,

01:00:43 ◼   ► all the kinds of things Myke says. Yeah. And I'm like, "Oh, thank you, Myke. I mean, that would be

01:00:49 ◼   ► really awesome." You know, our kind of conversation. And then of course we realized that this wouldn't

01:00:55 ◼   ► be possible and so I made other plans and yes so I'm gonna go with the

01:01:04 ◼   ► conclusion first I will wake up tomorrow morning at my local 9 a.m. actually you

01:01:11 ◼   ► know a few minutes before that because I need to get to my computer sip a cup of

01:01:15 ◼   ► coffee and just get ready I will wake up at about 8 45 in the morning and I will

01:01:22 ◼   ► buy an Apple Watch from Germany. That's my plan. Okay, so I have a friend. I have a dear

01:01:32 ◼   ► friend in Germany. And thanks to this friend, I will be able to buy a watch, get the watch

01:01:40 ◼   ► to my friend, and my friend will get the watch to me. And hopefully we'll be able to, you

01:01:48 ◼   ► to receive the watch on the 24th or maybe instead of Friday maybe on Monday and it'll ship it to me

01:01:55 ◼   ► so I'm hoping that using the fastest shipping option available I will have the Apple Watch by the week after the launch.

01:02:07 ◼   ► I'm gonna, you know, there will be a bit of a cost concern for shipments and stuff

01:02:16 ◼   ► but that's a compromise I'm willing to accept.

01:02:21 ◼   ► So don't ask me about the technicalities of my plan

01:02:25 ◼   ► but it's going down tomorrow morning.

01:02:30 ◼   ► Hopefully, I'm just concerned that the Apple website will crash.

01:02:35 ◼   ► I got get the app man you gotta go for the...

01:02:38 ◼   ► Yeah, see that's really nice.

01:02:41 ◼   ► Can I change the country in the app?

01:02:45 ◼   ► It's tied to your...

01:02:46 ◼   ► So the first question I have is that the Apple ID I use for iTunes has different billing

01:02:52 ◼   ► than the Apple ID I'm going to use to order the watch and so I've got to go in there and

01:02:56 ◼   ► change my billing over because the...

01:02:58 ◼   ► Business expense.

01:02:59 ◼   ► the App Store uses the built-in system Apple ID. I will say that if you are going to buy,

01:03:10 ◼   ► if you listened to this beforehand, the App Store holds up much better. The App Store

01:03:14 ◼   ► app on iOS holds up much better than the website during these things. I'll probably have both.

01:03:19 ◼   ► It's going to be 2 a.m. for me, which is really disappointing. But I've done it for several

01:03:23 ◼   ► hours.

01:03:24 ◼   ► I'm going to be rolling multiple browsers like it's going to be a party.

01:03:28 ◼   ► Yeah, so Federico, what's your final verdict on the model you're going to purchase?

01:03:33 ◼   ► I'm gonna get an Apple Watch Sport Space Gay with the black band.

01:03:42 ◼   ► So that's a down from what you had said weeks ago, I believe.

01:03:48 ◼   ► Why?

01:03:49 ◼   ► Because I read the reviews and I feel like, again, I'm gonna be that guy, because it's

01:03:58 ◼   ► a first generation product, I feel like I wanna wait at least until next year before

01:04:06 ◼   ► I drop that kind of money on the Apple Watch.

01:04:10 ◼   ► Because the one that I would want to wear on a daily basis would be the Apple Watch,

01:04:17 ◼   ► So the steel one, the space black with the link bracelet.

01:04:22 ◼   ► That's the one that I want, but it'll be 1500 euros.

01:04:27 ◼   ► So that's quite a bit of money for me, and I feel like because the Apple Watch is gonna

01:04:33 ◼   ► get better, I feel like for this first generation to get accustomed to the watch, it is better

01:04:41 ◼   ► for me to save a little money, get the basic Apple Watch, which according to the reviews

01:04:46 ◼   ► is still very much a fine watch, especially for physical activity, which is very important

01:04:51 ◼   ► to me.

01:04:52 ◼   ► So it's not like I'm getting some cheap watch that I really don't want to wear.

01:04:58 ◼   ► So I'm getting a good watch, I'm saving a bit of money, and next year I'll see if maybe

01:05:03 ◼   ► I want to spend a little more, get a fancier watch with an upgrade.

01:05:10 ◼   ► But I want to wait.

01:05:11 ◼   ► I want to wait until next year.

01:05:14 ◼   ► At least.

01:05:15 ◼   ► Yeah, I think there are a lot of people in that situation where after saying the reviews

01:05:20 ◼   ► and after kind of thinking about it over might be downgrading, but before I tell you that

01:05:27 ◼   ► I'm doing the opposite, Myke, what's your plan?

01:05:31 ◼   ► So I had come to the decision this week that I was going to get the Apple Watch.

01:05:38 ◼   ► I don't know what it was, I was just looking through them again, I was looking through

01:05:40 ◼   ► them with my girlfriend and we were looking at the balance and stuff like that, I was

01:05:44 ◼   ► like no I think I'm gonna go for the watch then I read the reviews like

01:05:48 ◼   ► Federica and I was like yeah I'm gonna go back to sport so I'm gonna be going to my

01:05:53 ◼   ► original plan I'm gonna be getting the sport I'm gonna be getting the blue

01:05:56 ◼   ► Flora Mastema. Is that how it said? Something like that. I'm gonna be getting the blue one I want the

01:06:05 ◼   ► black strap I think but what I'm gonna do I'm gonna but you can't get the black

01:06:09 ◼   ► strap with the aluminium the silver aluminium one which is what I prefer

01:06:14 ◼   ► because I still believe, I don't know why I believe this, but I still believe that the black one's gonna chip like the five

01:06:20 ◼   ► like the iPhone 5 did. Yeah, so the one

01:06:24 ◼   ► Federico is gonna buy might be all banged up in a year. Mm-hmm. Sorry Federico, but that's just my

01:06:29 ◼   ► conspiracy theory. I'm sure it'll be fine. I'm sure they've got that sorted out by now, but I don't know

01:06:35 ◼   ► I just and plus I I can see why people would like it. I just want the silver one. I like the silver one

01:06:40 ◼   ► So I'm gonna get that one and then I'm gonna try and also tomorrow book an appointment

01:06:46 ◼   ► At the store to try and hopefully go into a store and try one out before the show next week

01:06:51 ◼   ► That's my other plan

01:06:54 ◼   ► Is to make sure I can try and get down to the store and then when I'm at the store

01:06:57 ◼   ► I'm gonna choose what other band I want to buy because I would like to have

01:07:01 ◼   ► One of a band I'm leaning towards a level loop

01:07:05 ◼   ► But I want to take a look at those a little bit more

01:07:08 ◼   ► Gotcha, so

01:07:10 ◼   ► Yeah, the 2 a.m. Thing is gonna be exciting

01:07:13 ◼   ► I had I said on the show two weeks ago that I was gonna do the same thing Federico is doing the 42 millimeter

01:07:19 ◼   ► space gray aluminum black screen and

01:07:23 ◼   ► I

01:07:25 ◼   ► Have that favor favorited or whatever it is in my account, but I also have favorited the

01:07:31 ◼   ► Apple watch the stainless steel with the black band

01:07:36 ◼   ► Just because I get more nervous about the front of that not being the sapphire cover as someone who bangs their watch into things

01:07:44 ◼   ► all day long

01:07:46 ◼   ► I worry about the durability. It's a little bit more money. I

01:07:50 ◼   ► understand that I will not get that money back out of it at the back end like I'm sure the

01:07:55 ◼   ► Gazelle pricing on Apple watches, you know, I got time will tell how that how that market plays out

01:08:00 ◼   ► but I do I do worry a little bit about the

01:08:06 ◼   ► About that cover glass and so I and I've heard you know a lot of people have the reviewers and you know people who have had

01:08:11 ◼   ► Time with them. I've said that the steel one is really nice and the weight is not a

01:08:16 ◼   ► Whole lot more than than the sport one. So we'll see what happens in the middle of the night

01:08:21 ◼   ► Hopefully I don't order both

01:08:24 ◼   ► but

01:08:25 ◼   ► I'm leaning towards the the stainless steel with the black sport band and and like you Myke will probably

01:08:30 ◼   ► Pick up a couple other bands down the road like a white one or a blue one or something to spice it up

01:08:35 ◼   ► Yeah, I'm thinking still that the bands that we buy now will still be good in a while like

01:08:42 ◼   ► That's just my feeling

01:08:45 ◼   ► It seems pretty obvious

01:08:47 ◼   ► But it's just what I like to believe that the bands that we buy now we can use on the next maybe

01:08:51 ◼   ► Generation or two with the Apple watch I would hope so, you know looking at them even if that thing gets dramatically thinner

01:08:56 ◼   ► The way those grooves work, you know are pretty independent of how thick the device is

01:09:00 ◼   ► So I would imagine that you know

01:09:03 ◼   ► Maybe in a couple years, but you know honestly like as someone who's worn a watch pretty consistently

01:09:07 ◼   ► If you wear a watch every day you got to replace the band eventually because it wears out or cracks or you know

01:09:12 ◼   ► So I think that's reasonable and the sport bands are not

01:09:16 ◼   ► I mean all the bands are cheaper than I thought there would be in the sport band is pretty affordable

01:09:20 ◼   ► So if you know you crack it or you know something happens to it, and you need to replace it

01:09:24 ◼   ► It's definitely not the end of the world especially if you you know buy the $500 watch

01:09:29 ◼   ► So yeah, well, I guess we'll report back.

01:09:32 ◼   ► - We'll be up. - Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:09:33 ◼   ► - We'll be awake.

01:09:34 ◼   ► - I think I'll be in the,

01:09:35 ◼   ► maybe we'll open up the relay that will be in IRC,

01:09:39 ◼   ► talking with people, so.

01:09:40 ◼   ► - That's not a bad idea, actually.

01:09:42 ◼   ► - At first I can't-- - You should livestream.

01:09:43 ◼   ► - For a second, the other night,

01:09:44 ◼   ► I was like, we should livestream,

01:09:45 ◼   ► but I was like, A, it's gonna be 2 a.m. for me.

01:09:49 ◼   ► Like, I don't wanna be talking to anyone at 2 a.m.,

01:09:54 ◼   ► and let alone like in a house with sleeping children.

01:09:56 ◼   ► Like, the idea quickly fell apart for me,

01:09:58 ◼   ► me live streaming but I think we can hang out in the chat room. Yeah cool. Right we want to talk

01:10:05 ◼   ► about the Steve Jobs book a bit but before we do that should we thank our third sponsor?

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01:11:33 ◼   ► So becoming Steve Jobs, we've got a couple links in the show notes, one to Amazon.

01:11:39 ◼   ► If you haven't read Becoming Steve Jobs, I don't think we're going to spoil it in the

01:11:45 ◼   ► Well, we might. I would just proceed with caution if we start getting spoil- spoilery

01:11:50 ◼   ► come back later. But, so it's a book out, you can get a hardcover, I read it on the

01:11:55 ◼   ► Kindle. Myke, you did an audiobook. Lots of, lots of fun ways to enjoy it. It's best, I

01:12:06 ◼   ► think my comments reflect things that I also heard in a podcast. Gruber

01:12:12 ◼   ► interviewed the two writers of the book. There's a link to that in the show notes as

01:12:15 ◼   ► well as part of the Applesore Talks thing, part of the sort of thing

01:12:20 ◼   ► that you did in London about becoming a professional podcasters. Same type of

01:12:24 ◼   ► thing right? So which I think is really cool I like that the stores are doing

01:12:27 ◼   ► sort of that creative type work again which is a lot of fun. So instead of

01:12:34 ◼   ► going through the book chronologically what I've done is I've broken my

01:12:39 ◼   ► thoughts into topics and we'll see how far we get this might spill into next

01:12:44 ◼   ► week because we're already over an hour in but I kind of wanted to start with

01:12:49 ◼   ► the the meta discussion of the book itself and the kind of the environment

01:12:54 ◼   ► in which the book exists. So you know Steve Jobs died the Walter Isaacson book

01:13:01 ◼   ► comes out we all read it you know it's I don't know how many pages that thing is

01:13:05 ◼   ► I've got the hardcover version of it and it's like I could use it to prop up a

01:13:10 ◼   ► like a car I think is crazy thick. And a lot of us walked away from that book

01:13:15 ◼   ► saying that you know it's a real shame this guy had the blessing of Steve Jobs

01:13:21 ◼   ► and his family to write the official biography and he kind of blew it. And

01:13:26 ◼   ► there's lots of reasons why you should definitely go check out Syracuse's

01:13:28 ◼   ► hypercritical episodes about it. I re-listened to those in preparation for

01:13:31 ◼   ► this. And that book actually comes up in this book. So this this Becoming Steve

01:13:38 ◼   ► Jobs exists in a world post-Isaacson where you know what the last Steve Jobs

01:13:42 ◼   ► book wasn't very good, had a lot of things wrong with it, really wasn't all

01:13:46 ◼   ► that informative, it was basically just rewrites of all these other books and

01:13:49 ◼   ► this book steps into existence knowing all of that. It's very aware of the world

01:13:53 ◼   ► that it's in. In many ways this book is is very strange, right? It's written by

01:13:57 ◼   ► two journalists, one of whom had deep access to Steve Jobs over the course of

01:14:03 ◼   ► decades and it's two guys it's written in singular first-person which is

01:14:09 ◼   ► strange but it's it's definitely like aware that it's a Steve Jobs book right

01:14:14 ◼   ► like a in a way that most books I've read are not you know most biographies

01:14:20 ◼   ► don't say I'm a biography like this book says I'm a book about Steve Jobs so I

01:14:26 ◼   ► like the fact that it's that it's written from a journalist perspective

01:14:29 ◼   ► that these guys had taped interviews they had written interviews with Steve

01:14:32 ◼   ► jobs over the course of years. Lots of reference material and not only like the books that

01:14:37 ◼   ► you think of like Infinite Loop or West of Eden which are both two great books on Apple,

01:14:43 ◼   ► but you know original source material. These guys go out and interview people, they interview

01:14:47 ◼   ► some Apple people, interview ex-Apple people. Stuff that Isaacson really never did much

01:14:51 ◼   ► of. Isaacson basically just rewrote other books. But with that, you know, there's some

01:14:57 ◼   ► downsides. There are technical errors throughout the book. Jason and John spoke about this

01:15:00 ◼   ► on upgrade. The ones I just commented was like they said there was a black iBook. They

01:15:05 ◼   ► said the iPhone 3G had a faster processor than the iPhone. They said that the iPad 2

01:15:09 ◼   ► had a camera flash. Like I can forgive those things but like if so Myke so Myke if you

01:15:16 ◼   ► write the next Steve Jobs book you should hire a nerd to fact check it for you. Like

01:15:20 ◼   ► just the technical stuff like you could have paid somebody $14 to read this thing and not

01:15:24 ◼   ► said there was a black iBook but. People would have done it for free. Yeah I even had the

01:15:29 ◼   ► thoughts like I'm going through like highlighting these things to my Kindle

01:15:32 ◼   ► I'm like I just send me the transcript like I know the stuff by heart we could

01:15:37 ◼   ► have solved this problem for you and it's not that it it devalues the book in

01:15:41 ◼   ► my eyes I think historically it doesn't it doesn't hurt the book as much as it

01:15:45 ◼   ► hurts me as a pedantic you know every time Casey lists causes I've had

01:15:49 ◼   ► something silly I die inside but I think the general public you know is never

01:15:53 ◼   ► never gonna notice those things but it is it does you know show a little bit of

01:15:56 ◼   ► a crack in the way the book is written.

01:16:00 ◼   ► The other meta problem I have with the book, and I want to see what you guys think about

01:16:04 ◼   ► this, because you guys are both most of the way through the book, I believe, is that the

01:16:11 ◼   ► premise of the book, the thesis the book sets out to prove is sort of twofold.

01:16:16 ◼   ► One is that Steve Jobs, when he comes back to Apple, is a changed man from when he left

01:16:21 ◼   ► Apple.

01:16:22 ◼   ► the jerk, the guy who fires people on a whim in the 80s because of topography, that Steve

01:16:29 ◼   ► Jobs is not the guy who comes back to Apple.

01:16:32 ◼   ► And they sort of build a case for that, it's weak in places.

01:16:37 ◼   ► But the second part of the premise is, okay, Jobs came back, he was different, but really,

01:16:42 ◼   ► even the first Steve Jobs was not a bad guy, just maybe misunderstood.

01:16:46 ◼   ► And they tell some stories of he goes to this meeting and like goes off on this nonprofit

01:16:51 ◼   ► about marketing and then is crying in his car afterwards.

01:16:54 ◼   ► And that, like, yeah, that kind of shows that he wasn't two-dimensional in the fact that

01:16:59 ◼   ► he was just angry all the time, but they don't really paint the picture of what they're trying

01:17:04 ◼   ► to sell.

01:17:05 ◼   ► They kind of just say that thing and then they move on.

01:17:07 ◼   ► And that's a problem in any book, right?

01:17:11 ◼   ► If you chase every rabbit hole in a book, your book is going to be 10,000 pages long.

01:17:15 ◼   ► But if your core premise is to say Steve Jobs evolved over his lifetime and evolved over

01:17:19 ◼   ► his career you should paint that really clearly and I think this book only does

01:17:23 ◼   ► that about halfway what Myke you're further into it than Federico like do

01:17:30 ◼   ► you get that sense that that's what they're trying to say like as the meta

01:17:34 ◼   ► point of the book they're like the the whole point is trying to say that he had

01:17:38 ◼   ► a heart of gold like that's kind of what they're trying I feel like they're just

01:17:43 ◼   ► trying to get out it's like he is a nice guy and I'm not saying that he wasn't

01:17:48 ◼   ► but they try and explain so many things that he does and say yeah but he learned

01:17:54 ◼   ► later and it's like okay but he still did this then there is this kind of like

01:18:01 ◼   ► prevailing feeling in the book where they're trying to make the case that he

01:18:05 ◼   ► was a better person than then people think he was and in some instances I

01:18:10 ◼   ► actually think it works like they made me think differently about Lisa he's

01:18:15 ◼   ► his daughter right where they were like he was like in his early 20s the guy

01:18:20 ◼   ► didn't know what he was doing he kind of got lost and made it he did something

01:18:25 ◼   ► stupid by trying to like distance himself from it but he didn't know how

01:18:29 ◼   ► to do with it he was just a kid and it was like you know what that is a good

01:18:33 ◼   ► point I'm not excusing him because it was terrible but I've never heard it

01:18:38 ◼   ► said that way before like what would we do if we were 22 in that situation right

01:18:43 ◼   ► like, oh I was, but, uh, married with a baby, but, um, most people aren't, right? So like,

01:18:49 ◼   ► that's a really good example, Myke, of, you know, sort of putting people in Steve Jobs' shoes and

01:18:54 ◼   ► like, well, how would you react this way? How would you react if you had cancer? Would you tell people?

01:18:57 ◼   ► I love the Bob Iger story. Yes. Oh yeah, we're gonna get there.

01:19:03 ◼   ► The, the sort of the, the third meta point, we talk about technical issues, we talk about

01:19:10 ◼   ► what the book is trying to say. The third one is Apple's influence on the book. So leading up to it,

01:19:16 ◼   ► you know, iBooks is tweeting about it, Eddy Cue says, you know, this is a great book. Here's a

01:19:22 ◼   ► quote from Tim Cook. I don't know if you've heard of Tim Cook, he runs Apple now. This is a direct

01:19:28 ◼   ► quote from the book. "The picture of him isn't understood," says Cook. "I thought that the

01:19:32 ◼   ► Isaacson book did him a tremendous disservice. It was just a rehash of a bunch of stuff that had

01:19:37 ◼   ► already been said. It's focused on small parts of his personality. You get the feeling that Steve's

01:19:43 ◼   ► a greedy, selfish egomaniac, but it didn't capture the person. The person I read about there, being

01:19:49 ◼   ► the Isaacson book, is somebody I would never have wanted to work with over all this time. Life is

01:19:54 ◼   ► too short." That is really like, A, it's a dagger through the heart of the Isaacson book. Like,

01:20:02 ◼   ► Like if that book wasn't already condemned,

01:20:04 ◼   ► it is definitely condemned now.

01:20:06 ◼   ► But what becoming Steve Jobs is saying in this is that,

01:20:13 ◼   ► this is what they go on to say.

01:20:16 ◼   ► And saying this, "Cook echoed the feeling

01:20:18 ◼   ► of many of Steve's close friends.

01:20:21 ◼   ► In interview after interview,

01:20:23 ◼   ► they complained that very little

01:20:24 ◼   ► of what had been published offers any sense

01:20:26 ◼   ► of why they would have worked so long

01:20:28 ◼   ► and so hard for Steve."

01:20:30 ◼   ► And so what Becoming Steve Jobs is saying is,

01:20:32 ◼   ► look, these stories, these books you've heard

01:20:35 ◼   ► of Jobs being a jerk to people,

01:20:38 ◼   ► it's not the story, it's not the whole story at least.

01:20:40 ◼   ► And what we're gonna do is we're gonna tell

01:20:43 ◼   ► the soft, gooey bits in the middle

01:20:44 ◼   ► and why somebody like Tim Cook

01:20:46 ◼   ► would leave a profitable company

01:20:47 ◼   ► and come to Apple that was dying

01:20:49 ◼   ► and work for Jobs for 15 years.

01:20:52 ◼   ► And that's fine, but if you have the Apple CEO saying that,

01:21:00 ◼   ► a journalistic book, as a book written by reporters, you have biased it. You have

01:21:06 ◼   ► introduced an outside force saying, "You know what? This book is blessed." And by, you

01:21:13 ◼   ► know, osmosis, everything we are saying in the book is blessed. And I think that's a

01:21:17 ◼   ► little bit of a problem if you're approaching this book as a historical

01:21:21 ◼   ► journalistic effort to document this man's life. Why? I don't know if I

01:21:28 ◼   ► understand this as fully as you do because obviously you are a journalism

01:21:32 ◼   ► person. Yes that is what the degree says and I know that like this might just be

01:21:38 ◼   ► my own hang ups but if Becoming Steve Jobs is not saying we are writing the

01:21:43 ◼   ► definitive historical report of Steve Jobs life. What they are saying is we or

01:21:49 ◼   ► what they have done is we are writing a story with this lens with this message

01:21:54 ◼   ► of you know Steve had a heart of gold Michael you said it's much better than

01:21:57 ◼   ► I thought of it and yes he was a jerk and yes this other stuff happened but

01:22:02 ◼   ► underneath it all he was a good guy and what I really want and the book that has

01:22:07 ◼   ► not been written yet is the historical accurate unbiased like biography of Steve

01:22:16 ◼   ► Jobs and we don't have that because the Isaacson book was flawed and this book is

01:22:21 ◼   ► flawed to a lesser extent but in a different way and maybe that's just my

01:22:25 ◼   ► own hang up. I think some people share that thought. I think probably, like you

01:22:29 ◼   ► guys do. But it's something to think about as you read this book, that this book is

01:22:33 ◼   ► written from a certain point of view and a certain tone of voice that you should

01:22:36 ◼   ► be aware of, you know, when you think about this book.

01:22:39 ◼   ► Sure. My kind of last meta point, and this is just mostly me just preaching so you

01:22:46 ◼   ► guys just interrupt me. I'll say something. I think it, I was critical of it at the start because it

01:22:52 ◼   ► does feel like these guys are going in with their agenda but their agenda may

01:22:56 ◼   ► be based in what they believe to be fact or fact but I do come away from this

01:23:01 ◼   ► book I'm nearly finished I've got about an hour left in the audio book I do come

01:23:05 ◼   ► away from this book feeling vindicated like I feel like the man that I look up

01:23:11 ◼   ► to so much isn't as much of a tool yes he's been made out to be agreed so

01:23:17 ◼   ► whether he was or he wasn't, like I like that this book exists because I feel

01:23:22 ◼   ► better. I agree actually, I was talking to Mary about that. I was

01:23:30 ◼   ► finishing the book and I was like you know it's sort of a weird thing to look

01:23:32 ◼   ► up to look up to Steve Jobs because you know a lot of people have the view and

01:23:38 ◼   ► it's well founded in places that Steve Jobs was kind of a word that if I said

01:23:42 ◼   ► you would have to bleep it out on the podcast, right?

01:23:45 ◼   ► And so I do appreciate that as a fan,

01:23:48 ◼   ► as someone who looks at Steve Jobs as,

01:23:50 ◼   ► they're parts of his career, parts of his personality

01:23:54 ◼   ► that I think are worth emulating.

01:23:56 ◼   ► Absolutely, it's nice to know

01:23:58 ◼   ► that you're not following somebody

01:23:59 ◼   ► or that you're aligning yourself with somebody

01:24:02 ◼   ► who was a total jerk to people.

01:24:04 ◼   ► I think it's a really, I think it's a really solid point,

01:24:09 ◼   ► Myke, you know, it's interesting too,

01:24:11 ◼   ► and you're not to this part of the book yet,

01:24:13 ◼   ► but at the end of the book are all of the Apple executives

01:24:16 ◼   ► are sort of grouped together at the end of the book.

01:24:18 ◼   ► And it's, you know, it's Tim Cook,

01:24:21 ◼   ► it is Eddie Q, a couple others.

01:24:26 ◼   ► There's not Phil Schiller.

01:24:29 ◼   ► And it came out in that Gruber interview

01:24:31 ◼   ► that Apple allowed granted interviews

01:24:33 ◼   ► for people who attended Steve's private burial.

01:24:36 ◼   ► And Phil Schiller wasn't in that group

01:24:37 ◼   ► and that was the dividing line somehow.

01:24:39 ◼   ► and so that he wasn't allowed to be interviewed.

01:24:44 ◼   ► I will say that this is more of Eddy Cue

01:24:47 ◼   ► than we've ever seen.

01:24:48 ◼   ► Like I know there's that funny picture of him

01:24:50 ◼   ► at being interviewed by Walt Mossberg

01:24:52 ◼   ► and his shirt's unbuttoned,

01:24:53 ◼   ► but this is more of Eddy Cue than we've seen.

01:24:56 ◼   ► And I was surprised--

01:24:58 ◼   ► - Yeah, I know what you're gonna say.

01:25:00 ◼   ► - How powerful Eddy Cue seems with an apple.

01:25:04 ◼   ► And like-- - Dude is smart too.

01:25:06 ◼   ► - Yeah, 'cause you look at him, right?

01:25:08 ◼   ► So Eddy Cue drives a Ferrari

01:25:09 ◼   ► and he shows up with his shirt on button,

01:25:11 ◼   ► he's kinda sloppy, and it's easy to be like,

01:25:13 ◼   ► "Eh, Eddy Cue, he's sort of a crazy uncle figure,"

01:25:16 ◼   ► but like, he's-- - Yeah, it kinda feels like

01:25:18 ◼   ► iTunes Music Store, Eddy Cue's creation.

01:25:21 ◼   ► - Yeah, like-- - Not even so much

01:25:22 ◼   ► like he was asked to do it, he's like,

01:25:23 ◼   ► "He had an idea," and it became the iTunes Music Store.

01:25:28 ◼   ► And it's like, oh, AT&T deal, Eddy Cue.

01:25:31 ◼   ► Like, it's like, whoa. - Yeah, yeah, he's a beast,

01:25:34 ◼   ► and that's, you know, that's the--

01:25:36 ◼   ► - He's a real boss.

01:25:37 ◼   ► - Yes, he is. - Yeah.

01:25:39 ◼   ► And so that's sort of the fun part of this,

01:25:42 ◼   ► like, post-Steve, like, Cook, open Apple,

01:25:45 ◼   ► of working to see some of those stories now.

01:25:47 ◼   ► And there's, you know, there's more in this book

01:25:50 ◼   ► about the iPod and iPhone, or iPad and iPhone,

01:25:52 ◼   ► than we've ever seen before.

01:25:54 ◼   ► But, you know, you hear names of engineers

01:25:56 ◼   ► and people you haven't heard of before,

01:25:58 ◼   ► but that really impressed me.

01:25:59 ◼   ► That AT&T thing, where he was like,

01:26:01 ◼   ► "Hey, we're gonna build a phone.

01:26:03 ◼   ► "We're not gonna show it to you.

01:26:05 ◼   ► we're going to get a percentage of your data service charges.

01:26:10 ◼   ► Which they have gotten rid of since and I think it's why the pricing structure changed.

01:26:14 ◼   ► But yeah, like Federico said, he's a boss. And that was a lot of fun to read of like,

01:26:20 ◼   ► that dude is a machine and a very like, I don't know, like I always think EdiQ is

01:26:25 ◼   ► not that important, but in reality, apparently is very important to Apple's ongoing business.

01:26:30 ◼   ► And what I wish was in here was like the story of them buying Beats, because I guarantee you EdiQ

01:26:35 ◼   ► Q played hardball.

01:26:36 ◼   ► Like, he was the guy who would've finished it.

01:26:37 ◼   ► What it seems like is Q does the, did all the work and then Jobs would come in and seal

01:26:43 ◼   ► the deal.

01:26:44 ◼   ► Jobs came into the AT&T thing and was like, "We want part of the data stuff."

01:26:48 ◼   ► But Q is the one who's going in, he's feeling everyone out, he starts these things over

01:26:55 ◼   ► and then it's like, "Yep."

01:26:57 ◼   ► And then Jobs used to come in and slam it down.

01:27:00 ◼   ► Maybe that was when he wore the top hat.

01:27:02 ◼   ► Do you remember that story?

01:27:03 ◼   ► Yeah, it's something that happens, right?

01:27:10 ◼   ► And you know that they kind of deal with AT&T and you know that all these things happen,

01:27:13 ◼   ► but you're like, "Oh yeah, EdiQ was the guy who sort of massaged things into place."

01:27:18 ◼   ► It's pretty interesting.

01:27:20 ◼   ► Okay, so my next section you guys will see in the document is Steve Jobs, which seems

01:27:27 ◼   ► like he's one of my four topics for the book, but Steve Jobs is an individual.

01:27:33 ◼   ► And really what I walked away with and I'm gonna see what you guys think about this is

01:27:38 ◼   ► that there's even a quote with Johnny Ive talking about about Steve giving feedback

01:27:45 ◼   ► about sugarcoating the truth and that if you do that if you don't give brutal honest feedback

01:27:52 ◼   ► not to be brutal not to be a jerk but you just strip it down to the raw honesty of the

01:27:58 ◼   ► situation, that that is what's important. That you're doing a bigger respect to

01:28:02 ◼   ► somebody of just telling the truth as opposed to like chucking and jiving and

01:28:06 ◼   ► saying "oh it's pretty good but what about this?" If you just get to the heart

01:28:09 ◼   ► of it you're showing them more respect and you're getting better work in the

01:28:13 ◼   ► process. And not to be a jerk just to be mean even though I think there's cases

01:28:19 ◼   ► of that in Steve Jobs life, but you come across as abrasive because you're

01:28:24 ◼   ► stripping away that fluff that society wants you to put around truth that's

01:28:27 ◼   ► hard to swallow. What is that something you guys think like I look at that and I

01:28:32 ◼   ► admire that because it's you know a everybody kind of wants to be a jerk I

01:28:38 ◼   ► think I think a lot of people have that in them including myself but I look at

01:28:42 ◼   ► it I think yeah you know that that is kind of the way to handle things even

01:28:45 ◼   ► though my backfire sometimes like raw truth is raw honesty is the way to go but

01:28:50 ◼   ► How does that strike you guys? I think it's incredibly hard to be able to do it

01:28:59 ◼   ► but I can see the benefit in everybody else. Once you know that the

01:29:05 ◼   ► person that you work for works in this way, I can see how it enables you to

01:29:10 ◼   ► get work done faster. It eliminates an incredible amount of politics

01:29:15 ◼   ► because everyone is being honest or at least he is being honest and then that

01:29:21 ◼   ► allows you to be honest of each other as well because it's like but there's no

01:29:24 ◼   ► point sugarcoating this there's no point dancing around like and and like beating

01:29:29 ◼   ► the book reading about the bush about this sort of stuff let's just get things

01:29:32 ◼   ► done there's something about that which is great but gone Federico you gotta be

01:29:37 ◼   ► I'm sorry Myke it's just you gotta be in the position to be able to you know to

01:29:41 ◼   ► to go on with your life like that.

01:29:43 ◼   ► Because there's people who work day jobs,

01:29:46 ◼   ► and they just want to keep their jobs,

01:29:48 ◼   ► and they're not in the position to be jerks

01:29:50 ◼   ► and to not sugarcoat stuff.

01:29:52 ◼   ► Because at the end of the day, they're just

01:29:54 ◼   ► be nice to people, keep your job,

01:29:58 ◼   ► get a salary at the end of the month,

01:30:00 ◼   ► and go home and enjoy the rest of your life.

01:30:02 ◼   ► Because for most people, their job is not their life.

01:30:06 ◼   ► So if you're in a creative, controlling position,

01:30:10 ◼   ► I guess like Steve Jobs was and if you can afford to live with the consequences of people thinking oh my god

01:30:16 ◼   ► This guy's a jerk good for you. I mean we saw how much this kind of you know way of living

01:30:22 ◼   ► Ultimately was beneficial to Steve Jobs and to Apple because of this crazy creative process and to you know

01:30:29 ◼   ► To get things done and to move forward and that's great

01:30:32 ◼   ► Just most people don't need or want to do that and I understand why I mean it's easier

01:30:39 ◼   ► What do you guys say? To avoid all the politics and to go straight to the point and to be

01:30:45 ◼   ► kind of direct to people to just say what you think without, you know, all the fluff and that's great

01:30:52 ◼   ► But it's just most people want to avoid the problems that, you know, originate from this kind of behavior

01:30:58 ◼   ► they just want to be nice because it's easier and it makes you more comfortable and

01:31:02 ◼   ► Usually lets you keep your job

01:31:05 ◼   ► Yeah, and you're right like Jobs owned Pixar, you know, he

01:31:10 ◼   ► Was the CEO at Apple?

01:31:12 ◼   ► So if I come into my job as sort of a middle manager tech guy and I do that like it's gonna end poorly for me

01:31:18 ◼   ► I know because I've tried it and it is poorly for me

01:31:20 ◼   ► And I think this is one of the elements that changes

01:31:30 ◼   ► as jobs ages and again the book tells the story but doesn't really back it up in places of

01:31:36 ◼   ► He did that when he came back to Apple right he did that with with IV did that with the design team

01:31:41 ◼   ► But maybe he filed the edge off a little bit of them the meanness of it that you know

01:31:46 ◼   ► You can do that and if it's about the work

01:31:48 ◼   ► that's one thing but if you make it about the person doing the work like your jobs made things personal in his first tenure at

01:31:54 ◼   ► Apple and

01:31:55 ◼   ► That's really where you get into trouble right if you can say well your work is is

01:31:59 ◼   ► It's poopy, but if you say you're a poopy person different things

01:32:02 ◼   ► Trying to keep myself from yes, I'm editing tonight

01:32:07 ◼   ► and

01:32:09 ◼   ► And you know multiple times in the book

01:32:11 ◼   ► It's you know, I did the very best work in my life for Steve, you know

01:32:15 ◼   ► we as a team did the very best work of our lives for Steven and

01:32:18 ◼   ► clearly if you can work in an environment with someone, you know, like what Tim Cook said of

01:32:24 ◼   ► Who's not a jerk just to be a jerk and you balance that with like brutal?

01:32:29 ◼   ► like raw honesty you know Jobs eventually found that balance because he

01:32:35 ◼   ► got people you know the people who who made the iPod and who did all these

01:32:38 ◼   ► things you know built the iMac they were the same engineers who were building

01:32:42 ◼   ► Performas two years earlier that were really crappy and Jobs inspired them and

01:32:47 ◼   ► those you know they had new leadership but the same people were doing that work

01:32:50 ◼   ► and so clearly people can respond and reverberate to that sort of feedback

01:32:56 ◼   ► when done correctly and I think that's really like looking at companies you

01:33:02 ◼   ► see like CEOs try to be like oh I'm gonna be the Steve Jobs of X. Like well

01:33:07 ◼   ► that's sort of silly but if you're gonna do that like you have to get that

01:33:12 ◼   ► balance of you know yes I can I can be really brutal in my feedback and I'm

01:33:19 ◼   ► gonna give you honesty without any of the fluff but at the same time I'm gonna

01:33:22 ◼   ► build you up and encourage you I'm going to inspire you to do the best work I

01:33:25 ◼   ► think a lot of leaders fall into one or two of those camps but not both I think

01:33:30 ◼   ► that's where Steve Jobs lived as a manager later in his life was sort of

01:33:33 ◼   ► doing both of those things and that's what makes him a unique leader and you

01:33:39 ◼   ► know in that this book is not an original thought to this book but you

01:33:45 ◼   ► know Steve's biggest legacy Steve's biggest creation his biggest product is

01:33:50 ◼   ► Apple itself. You know this book talks a little bit about Apple University where

01:33:56 ◼   ► Apple employees are taught like historical Apple stuff not for the

01:34:00 ◼   ► reasons I care about it but like these are the decisions that were made and

01:34:04 ◼   ► these are the factors that went to those decisions like you know we could change

01:34:10 ◼   ► on a dime when we need to because of these things and Apple is trying very

01:34:13 ◼   ► hard to keep the spirit of Steve Jobs alive in the company and I think that's

01:34:20 ◼   ► really important I think you see that in this book where you know he's at Next

01:34:22 ◼   ► and he's watching Apple from afar and yes he's he's taking jabs at them in the

01:34:27 ◼   ► market but then privately he's like oh my gosh I can't believe that you know

01:34:31 ◼   ► this is going on he comes back to Apple it's six months before he does anything

01:34:35 ◼   ► right his next employees are all running divisions with an Apple but Steve is

01:34:38 ◼   ► outside of Apple sitting on his hands trying to decide what to do it's not

01:34:43 ◼   ► till nine months later that he comes on his ICO and then you know nukes

01:34:46 ◼   ► Gil Amelio out of the water, you see that shift of that balance kind of coming

01:34:53 ◼   ► into into play and and jobs caring about Apple not only as a family of products

01:34:58 ◼   ► but a product itself and I think that's something that other leaders, businesses

01:35:03 ◼   ► I've worked in, businesses that I see that I interact with, you know, you get

01:35:06 ◼   ► very down in the weeds in your product or your service and not not pay attention

01:35:13 ◼   ► attention to your culture or I think what Apple has is bigger than just

01:35:17 ◼   ► culture it is a way of thinking a philosophy of of work that Jobs tried to

01:35:23 ◼   ► tried to pass on. I did I did want to talk to you about the cancer thing I mean

01:35:31 ◼   ► it's in this book there's not a lot of new stuff in this book that wasn't in

01:35:34 ◼   ► the Isaacson book. The Isaacson book is really the first time you hear a lot of

01:35:38 ◼   ► the story because on the outside is Jobs took a couple leaves of absences leaves

01:35:42 ◼   ► of absence and he was kind of in and out and looked really unhealthy for a long

01:35:47 ◼   ► time looked really sick and then came back and had a little spring in his step

01:35:51 ◼   ► again and then you know went downhill and from the outside it was hard to tell

01:35:54 ◼   ► what was going on. This book does raise the question of like should Steve have

01:36:00 ◼   ► told people earlier should Steve have gotten treatment earlier? He tried doing

01:36:05 ◼   ► this holistic thing and then ended up you know being a more serious deal than

01:36:09 ◼   ► than he thought anyways. I don't feel comfortable, you know, passing judgment on

01:36:18 ◼   ► Steve's decisions about his cancer, maybe because I've had it in my own family for

01:36:24 ◼   ► a long time now and everyone approaches that differently. I don't know if you

01:36:31 ◼   ► guys had any opinions on that. I don't feel like I could speak into his

01:36:34 ◼   ► decision-making there and I think the book does a pretty good job of treating

01:36:39 ◼   ► that part of his life with respect of, you know, this was... they're not saying,

01:36:43 ◼   ► "Hey, it was a bad decision," or, "These were poor decisions," but, "These are decisions

01:36:47 ◼   ► he made with his family," and for better or for worse that's what happened.

01:36:52 ◼   ► Well, personally, like, I still have to reach this section of the book, but I'm familiar

01:36:59 ◼   ► with the story. I can only say that I, during my, you know, my process of going

01:37:07 ◼   ► through this stuff, I was offered to try, you know, this alternative solutions,

01:37:13 ◼   ► we are, um, instead of traditional science and medicine.

01:37:19 ◼   ► And my reaction was not exactly a good one.

01:37:24 ◼   ► And the person who tried to, um, poke my brain with this idea, I haven't, uh,

01:37:34 ◼   ► spoken to this person in four years.

01:37:36 ◼   ► So I don't feel like I'm qualified to comment on...

01:37:41 ◼   ► It was Steve Jobs' decision, of course, and it's just I personally don't believe in this stuff.

01:37:47 ◼   ► My reaction is always a bit aggressive when this sort of theme is brought up to me.

01:37:53 ◼   ► It was his decision, so I'm guessing, like you said, Steven, it was made with his family.

01:37:59 ◼   ► family. Personally, I don't think it's a smart choice, but you know, people can do whatever

01:38:06 ◼   ► they want with their lives.

01:38:08 ◼   ► I think for me, any feeling that I have or emotion that I have about that, it's selfish

01:38:18 ◼   ► because I didn't want him to die. Like, I want him to still be around because I benefit

01:38:25 ◼   ► from him being around.

01:38:27 ◼   ► But he'd made a decision in his life, which was like,

01:38:30 ◼   ► I'm going to do this, I'm going to do this, I'm going to do this.

01:38:33 ◼   ► And if it doesn't work, then then that's that because I don't want to do this.

01:38:37 ◼   ► And they actually did a really good job in the book of explaining how

01:38:40 ◼   ► a really invasive surgery for some people is something they just don't want.

01:38:45 ◼   ► And Steve was took a lot of care of himself

01:38:49 ◼   ► and didn't want people poking around inside his body.

01:38:53 ◼   ► So he wanted to exhaust other avenues before allowing that sort of stuff to happen.

01:38:59 ◼   ► And it's like, again, another one, it's like, okay, that is a different and interesting

01:39:05 ◼   ► opinion, different to one that I've seen before.

01:39:08 ◼   ► And again, going back to what we were talking about earlier, where the book can make some

01:39:12 ◼   ► weird decisions in the way it tries to explain some of Steve's stuff, it actually also passes

01:39:18 ◼   ► some interesting feelings that I hadn't thought of before and that is one of them.

01:39:23 ◼   ► Yeah and you know he's got the story of where he was showing off his

01:39:28 ◼   ► scar and saying you know this really was a big deal. I think that's really a good

01:39:33 ◼   ► point and Myke you know one that I have thought about but not in context of

01:39:37 ◼   ► of jobs. Really kind of what I want to leave this section with is Steve's speech

01:39:44 ◼   ► at Stanford and there's gonna be a link you can read the transcript the entire

01:39:49 ◼   ► transcript is in the book which I think is really great they'd read it all out

01:39:53 ◼   ► in the audiobook yeah I rewatched the video last night in fact Federico thank

01:39:57 ◼   ► you and I were texting and I always forget how powerful the speech is and

01:40:03 ◼   ► obviously in hindsight it's tragic because we know that you know he's only

01:40:08 ◼   ► got X number of years six years after the speech is given and he talks about

01:40:12 ◼   ► death, and my favorite line is "sometimes life hits you in the head with a brick,

01:40:17 ◼   ► don't lose faith." It's just like super heavy duty, but like that's--I think that

01:40:24 ◼   ► speech is printed in its entirety in this book, and I think it resonates with

01:40:28 ◼   ► us so well today, ten years later, because this is the jobs that this book is

01:40:32 ◼   ► portraying, and it's the jobs that we want to look up to of someone who's a

01:40:37 ◼   ► little rough around the edges. There's stuff in the speech that's really hard, and

01:40:40 ◼   ► and like kind of rough to listen to, but it's with that heart in the center of it and with

01:40:47 ◼   ► a passion for people and a passion for the very nature of life itself. He talks about,

01:40:54 ◼   ► "If today were the last day of my life, would I want to do what I'm about to do today? And

01:41:00 ◼   ► when the answer has been no for too many days in a row, I change something." Such a compact statement

01:41:07 ◼   ► that has a whole world of philosophy behind it is pretty great, pretty powerful stuff.

01:41:14 ◼   ► I was glad to see that made the book in its entirety because I haven't read that in years

01:41:18 ◼   ► and it definitely like, I get choked up reading that speech, which may be silly but it's definitely

01:41:25 ◼   ► something that happened to me reading it.

01:41:28 ◼   ► So looking at where we are now, do you think we should maybe hold some of this?

01:41:31 ◼   ► Yeah, let's tackle Pixar and Apple next week and we'll wrap this up.

01:41:38 ◼   ► Yeah, because we're also going to talk, we're going to have Jason on next week, right?

01:41:42 ◼   ► We're going to talk about photos.

01:41:43 ◼   ► Yes.

01:41:44 ◼   ► Which will be fun.

01:41:45 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:41:46 ◼   ► Because we need to kill Apple's service.

01:41:47 ◼   ► We need to kill it.

01:41:49 ◼   ► So we're going to talk about it and then it's going to go away.

01:41:52 ◼   ► Just before we end the show, something that I just saw on Twitter that I'm about to retweet

01:41:58 ◼   ► right now.

01:41:59 ◼   ► Oh.

01:42:00 ◼   ► Okay.

01:42:01 ◼   ► retweeted. This is, we're doing it live. So there's people already in line to see the

01:42:07 ◼   ► watch in Australia. To see, because you can't buy in person right? Did we say that? No.

01:42:14 ◼   ► There's people in line just to see the watch, to try it on I think. And there's a, you can

01:42:19 ◼   ► see TV crews, you can see cameras, you can see the Apple store. I just retweeted this

01:42:23 ◼   ► and yeah. There's people. It's gotta be like still 8 hours away though right? I don't know,

01:42:30 ◼   ► It's kind of, what time is it in Sydney?

01:42:33 ◼   ► Let's see.

01:42:34 ◼   ► Because they're doing it the same time everywhere, like the pre-orders.

01:42:37 ◼   ► I don't know, maybe they're putting them in stores earlier.

01:42:39 ◼   ► It's midnight Pacific.

01:42:40 ◼   ► No, it's midnight Pacific, but it's 9am local time, I think.

01:42:45 ◼   ► So it's 9am in Sydney right now, and I'm guessing that the Apple Store is about to open, so

01:42:50 ◼   ► there's people, there's media.

01:42:52 ◼   ► Oh, right, they're going to have them in the store, but they can't order them yet.

01:42:56 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:42:57 ◼   ► because I think it'll be like I think it's like five o'clock or something Sydney time something

01:43:01 ◼   ► like that yeah but it makes sense right they're gonna have them in the store today that you just

01:43:05 ◼   ► can't do nothing with them but that makes sense I would be there like yeah I have to uh I was gonna

01:43:10 ◼   ► buy AppleCare+ for my six plus and I was gonna do it this weekend because I'm gonna be out where the

01:43:14 ◼   ► Apple store is and I was like yeah that's probably a bad idea I'm gonna be busy um yeah so we'll pick

01:43:21 ◼   ► up uh the second uh half of my rambling next week and that'll give you guys time to finish the book

01:43:26 ◼   ► because the Pixar and Apple relationship is really interesting. So we'll dive back in next week.

01:43:32 ◼   ► Yeah some of the Pixar stuff is fantastic but yeah I want to finish it. I want to finish it.

01:43:35 ◼   ► Cool. Great so I think that's about it for this week's episode. If you want to find our

01:43:41 ◼   ► massive list of links there's lots of stuff lots of cool things in there this week go to

01:43:44 ◼   ► relay.fm/connected/34 or you'll find the links in your podcast app of choice. There's a couple

01:43:50 ◼   ► of places you can find us online if you'd like to find Stephen Hackett he is @ismh on Twitter

01:43:55 ◼   ► and writes at the five tall pixels dotnet Federico's at the teachy vit ICC I and he writes at max stories dotnet and I am I Myke

01:44:02 ◼   ► I am y ke on Twitter and I host many shows over at the great relay dot FM

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01:44:11 ◼   ► You can find out more about the great stuff that we have on offer

01:44:14 ◼   ► Thanks again to our sponsors this week one password from agile bits

01:44:18 ◼   ► We also had igloo and wealth front and we'll be back next time until then gentlemen

01:44:25 ◼   ► peace and goodbye. Adios.