0:00:00(upbeat music)
0:00:02From Relay FM, it's connected, episode number 26.
0:00:11Today's episode of connected is brought to you by
0:00:13Hover, simplified domain management, automatic,
0:00:16drive safer, drive smarter, and PDFPEM Pro 7.
0:00:20Take control of PDFs on your Mac.
0:00:23My name is Myke Hurley and I have the pleasure, as always,
0:00:26of being joined by Mr. Federico Vittucci.
0:00:28Hi, Federico.
0:00:30- Buona sera, Myke.
0:00:31- Hello.
0:00:32- Hi.
0:00:33- And howdy, Mr. Steven Hackett.
0:00:35- Hey, boys.
0:00:37- How you doing?
0:00:38- I'm good.
0:00:39How's Europe doing?
0:00:41Europe's good?
0:00:42- Yeah, it's dark, but it's fine.
0:00:44- Yeah, it's fine.
0:00:45- It's midnight.
0:00:46So I guess it is.
0:00:47- Steven, do you have snow in Tennessee?
0:00:50- No.
0:00:53Memphis maybe gets like an average of like
0:00:56an inch and a half a year or something.
0:00:58We get very little snow here.
0:00:59But when we do, because we don't know what to deal with it,
0:01:02everything shuts down and people freak out
0:01:05because there's an inch of snow on the ground
0:01:07and they can't go anywhere or drive.
0:01:09We're really wimpy compared to our friends in the Northeast.
0:01:12Somewhere Dan Morin is just like
0:01:13smashing his phone against the wall listening to this.
0:01:15(laughing)
0:01:18So yeah.
0:01:19- Michael, what about the UK?
0:01:22Do you get snow in the UK?
0:01:23- Very similar to Memphis.
0:01:26Over the last few years we have had snow. We've not had any this year, so I expect that there probably won't be any now, because it usually has happened by now.
0:01:34But when we do get snow, like snow that settles, like maybe a few inches or whatever, all of London closes. It's just a disaster.
0:01:43Just closes.
0:01:45There's always headlines in the news, like how many millions of pounds were lost in the economy, because basically every business stops working.
0:01:54except relay. That's just 20 dollars though, so no big deal. Is the dollar that strong?
0:02:01That doesn't feel right. I wish, I wish, I wish the dollar was that strong. It would work well for you.
0:02:08Oh it would be great for me. I'm like, I'm now in that very small group of people in the UK
0:02:14that wants the dollar to get stronger than the pound. There's not many of us, I am one of those
0:02:19people. So you guys remember last week I told you about the gladiator movie and
0:02:25and the guy that I that I knew was in the movie. He was the son. He was the son of the
0:02:32of the gladiator of Maximus and so I told you that his brother now is in a band and so I was
0:02:40just watching the band on television because there's a in Italy we have this sort of
0:02:45national music contest which is called the festival of Sanremo. It's a town in the north
0:02:52of Italy and so his brother was playing with his band on television. That was pretty cool. We used
0:02:59to like when I was in high school and I was in my band, I'm sure Myke that you remember my band.
0:03:05Yes, you shared a couple of songs once and so I used to play together with this guy. We would go
0:03:13go to parties and we would like drink a little too much and then play guitar. So now the
0:03:20guy's on television and I'm on relay talking to Myke and Steven. Quite different roads
0:03:26we've taken.
0:03:27Was that in the show last week or was that after the show? I can't remember.
0:03:31I don't know, I think I was on the show. I asked you about the name of the Maximus.
0:03:36Yeah, no I know we were talking about it as the three of us, I just can't remember if
0:03:40it's in the episode.
0:03:42I also, I also, I watched the Gladiator on TV.
0:03:46Still a super great movie.
0:03:48Good stuff.
0:03:49Should we do some follow up?
0:03:52The follow up is short this week.
0:03:53I think that we broke everyone's hearts when we ended the old show notes, or browsers and
0:04:00old show notes.
0:04:02Good grief.
0:04:03You know, the thing that we did, when people...
0:04:05We finished show notes, if I remember.
0:04:07Yeah, show notes are done.
0:04:09And browsers don't exist anymore.
0:04:11Although it was funny, even throughout last week, people who hadn't listened to the show
0:04:15yet, we got some more emails and tweets like, "No, that's done."
0:04:23But we do have a couple pieces of follow-up we want to talk about.
0:04:26The first one's not really so much follow-up, but sort of like a shout-out.
0:04:30Follow-out, remember?
0:04:31This is how it works.
0:04:32I'm not familiar with that show.
0:04:34We follow-up on previous shows, we follow-out the things that are unrelated to other shows.
0:04:39We're working with this, we've got to adopt this, this can be our thing.
0:04:43This is new terminology?
0:04:45You've not been listening to Upgrade, yes it is.
0:04:47I told you that I don't listen to podcasts.
0:04:49I thought you were going to say "I don't listen to Upgrade".
0:04:52I can't!
0:04:53Life in the heart.
0:04:54I don't listen to podcasts much because I just don't have the time, too many podcasts.
0:04:59I talk to you directly, I don't need to listen to you much.
0:05:02Well okay then.
0:05:03Sorry, I'm just behind, come on, give me a hard time for this.
0:05:07No it's okay.
0:05:08basically Jason coined a term for if you are talking about a podcast
0:05:13that is not your podcast and you're either and you're like following up on
0:05:19that show we call it follow out because it's out to another show it's got
0:05:24nothing to do with us but we're talking about it anyway it has something to do
0:05:28with you it does have something to do with me because yesterday you were on Mac break weekly episode 441
0:05:35I was, imagine that.
0:05:37It's crazy. I remember like, I don't know, like
0:05:402006, 2007, like early on, listening to MacBreak Weekly, and now you're on it, which is super cool.
0:05:47It's a great episode. I finished it up this morning. Good.
0:05:50Thank you.
0:05:51Your face looks great on video, Myke.
0:05:55Thank you.
0:05:56Especially the beard looks amazing.
0:05:58Oh, it was trimmed. I went and had it professionally trimmed. Not for that show, but I did have it trimmed.
0:06:04Fancy, nice. I like it. I like you, Myke.
0:06:08You look great on video.
0:06:12Thank you, buddy.
0:06:13Genuine opinion. I'm a video cast reviewer.
0:06:18Recording video shows, I mean, I've done a couple now.
0:06:22It's very different. It's very, very different.
0:06:27There's so many things that you have to think about and do that you don't usually have to think about or do.
0:06:33You know?
0:06:33Yeah, 'cause you never know when the camera's
0:06:39gonna be on you.
0:06:40Like, it just is.
0:06:42Like, all of a sudden, you can see yourself
0:06:46'cause you see the feed.
0:06:47Like, they give you back the feed in Skype.
0:06:49But you're kind of like, you're never 100%.
0:06:54Like, you know, you never know if you're gonna see it.
0:06:56It's very weird.
0:06:57Video is very weird.
0:06:58It totally changes things as well.
0:07:00Yeah, just very peculiar.
0:07:03But it's enjoyable.
0:07:04I like doing it when I do it, but I don't want to do it for any of my shows.
0:07:09Right.
0:07:10I mean, because normally you podcast, people might not know this, but you podcast in like
0:07:14a speed skating suit.
0:07:16I'm actually wearing an ATP t-shirt right now.
0:07:19What?
0:07:20Why?
0:07:21Why would you?
0:07:22I don't know.
0:07:23So people should go check it out.
0:07:26The link is in the show notes, which can be found in any modern browser at a URL that
0:07:32that Myke will now describe.
0:07:34- You can go to relay.fm/connected/26,
0:07:38where you will find the link
0:07:39for MacBreak Weekly episode 441, which is insane.
0:07:43441.
0:07:45- So crazy.
0:07:47- So connected is my same age this week.
0:07:51It's 26.
0:07:52- Hooray!
0:07:53- Yeah, in about 10 episodes,
0:07:55it's gonna be your same age, Steven.
0:07:57- I just turned 29 like two weeks ago.
0:08:01I wanna check this now.
0:08:02- We are basically almost two years in
0:08:04and you're still telling this fake story
0:08:06about your birthing.
0:08:07- Episode one of MacBreak Weekly was on August 12th, 2006.
0:08:13- That's before the iPhone.
0:08:15Wow.
0:08:16- That's, yeah.
0:08:17- Yeah.
0:08:17- That's when like iPod rumors were big.
0:08:19- I remember listening to the show, like leading up to,
0:08:23and then after like the iPhone was released,
0:08:25that was when Merlin was on the show.
0:08:27- Yeah.
0:08:29It's crazy.
0:08:29- Nice.
0:08:30We talked a little bit last week about Microsoft and their new Outlook app, which of course
0:08:36is actually another app that they acquired.
0:08:39And there was rumor that broke right, I think it was right before we recorded that they
0:08:43had purchased Sunrise and today Microsoft and the Sunrise development team confirmed
0:08:49it.
0:08:50So Federico, you seem excited about this.
0:08:54I am because Microsoft is clearly late to mobile devices in general but they've been
0:09:02trying to catch up.
0:09:05They're doing Office on smartphones and tablets now, they have integrations with Dropbox,
0:09:12they bought Accomplia and they turned it into a free Outlook app that works with all email
0:09:18services except IMAP.
0:09:20So they've been trying to have the same level of basic functionality of competitors in this
0:09:29space.
0:09:30And now Sunrise is a great great calendar app for multiple platforms.
0:09:35That's really the point.
0:09:36They're not trying to...
0:09:38They're not buying Fantastical.
0:09:39They're not trying to buy iOS only apps.
0:09:42They want to buy cross-platform stuff because they need to do apps for iOS and Android,
0:09:50so it makes sense.
0:09:52Sunrise is a great calendar app.
0:09:54It's got integrations with third-party services like Todoist, Evernote, Foursquare, Twitter,
0:10:01Soundkick, Asana, if anybody uses that.
0:10:05There's something they call the Sunrise Platform, where if you have an API, you can make sure
0:10:14that your service shows up in Sunrise.
0:10:17So they bought this calendar service that has vision for a calendar that shows you more
0:10:23stuff than just calendar events.
0:10:27And I think it's smart for Microsoft to buy...
0:10:31Because clearly at this point they either come up with stuff of their own quickly or
0:10:38they buy something that already exists and that it's pretty good.
0:10:43And they're buying great apps.
0:10:45So I think that's a...
0:10:46At least they're spending their money right.
0:10:48That's my argument.
0:10:49So smart.
0:10:51This is what Marissa Meyer did when she went to Yahoo.
0:10:57- Exactly, yes. - If you don't spend
0:10:58millions of dollars and hundreds and hundreds
0:11:00and hundreds of man hours, thousands of man hours,
0:11:03just buy, like you've got the money,
0:11:05just buy small teams because you get good apps
0:11:09and you get really smart people that made those apps
0:11:12that can help drive the products.
0:11:13Like, it's genius, it's genius.
0:11:16It's not like an incredibly complex strategy,
0:11:18but I think it's a very, very effective one.
0:11:21'Cause if you buy apps like Accompli
0:11:23that are already well respected
0:11:25and don't do too much to them,
0:11:27you then become Microsoft with a well-respected app,
0:11:30like on iOS.
0:11:31I think the problem they're actually starting to face now
0:11:35is the apps on iPhone and Android
0:11:39are probably better than the ones on Windows Phone.
0:11:42Like the Outlook app on iPhone is probably better now
0:11:46than the Outlook app on the Windows Phone.
0:11:49- I'm not sure.
0:11:52Is there going to be a Sunrise app for Windows Phone?
0:11:56- Well, I don't think it will be called.
0:11:57I think it will form part of Outlook, I suppose,
0:12:01what they're planning on doing here, right?
0:12:02I mean, have they said,
0:12:03'cause they didn't keep a Compley a Compley, did they?
0:12:05They rebranded it. - Nope, yes.
0:12:07- So-- - And it became Outlook.
0:12:09- So I don't know, they might call it Microsoft Calendar
0:12:11or something like that, or Outlook Calendar,
0:12:13'cause Outlook is a calendar and email app technically.
0:12:17- That's my question also in the small link
0:12:22that I put on Mac stories, is there going to be,
0:12:25because there's a calendar view in Outlook,
0:12:27in the Outlook app for iPhone and iPad.
0:12:30So is there going to be some sort of integration
0:12:32between Outlook and Sunrise?
0:12:34It's going to be called Outlook calendar,
0:12:36just calendar for Outlook.
0:12:39- They may-- - The brand looks confusing.
0:12:42I don't know.
0:12:42- They may just no longer be a Sunrise app
0:12:45and like the functionality might be rolled
0:12:48into the Outlook app.
0:12:49- That's my thought.
0:12:51Probably, yeah.
0:12:53- I mean, you can have a calendar app inside Outlook
0:12:56and then another one, I don't know.
0:12:58I think we're gonna see sunrise as we know it today
0:13:02sort of go away and--
0:13:03- Exist, exist. - So that's a filter back up.
0:13:05- Yeah, interesting.
0:13:07Maybe they just wanted really smart calendar people.
0:13:09- Yeah.
0:13:12I think it's good, I agree with you, Federico,
0:13:14that I think Microsoft is doing some smart stuff,
0:13:17but I want them to...
0:13:21I want to see how this plays out long term.
0:13:23They're doing some good stuff right now on iOS, but when Google first started with the
0:13:29Gmail app and the Maps app and stuff, they weren't super great and now they're actually
0:13:33for the most part pretty good.
0:13:34It took them a little time to get there.
0:13:37So I'm curious if Microsoft will take that same path where you could be using a lot of
0:13:43Microsoft apps and services on iOS and still feel like a first class citizen.
0:13:48I hope they do.
0:13:49I think it's good to have options and I think they, uh,
0:13:51like we talked about last week,
0:13:52they just need to really sort of recapture the consumer base that they've lost
0:13:57in the mobile space. So yeah.
0:14:01Yeah. What I'm interested in seeing is like if they go the Google route,
0:14:05like you now feel like you're using good iOS apps,
0:14:09but not, but iOS apps that don't feel like iOS apps. Do you know what I mean?
0:14:14Like when Google first started out with their iOS apps,
0:14:17like they felt like what the iOS apps at the time,
0:14:21but now they do feel and look more like Android apps on iOS.
0:14:26Even though, you know, they've got that,
0:14:27they've got a totally different design language.
0:14:29And I wonder if we'd see Microsoft going down that route
0:14:32because Microsoft visually for their own platforms
0:14:34have a very different design.
0:14:36And I wonder if like they wanna get in now,
0:14:39but like has to be moved down the road,
0:14:41I wonder if it would change.
0:14:42I don't think that's a bad thing
0:14:43'cause I actually really like the material design
0:14:45and I like the way that they've brought that over to iOS, except the background on Chrome
0:14:51for iOS, the weird background, I don't know why it's there, I know why it's there, it
0:14:55looks weird.
0:14:56But I like the way that Maps looks and stuff like that, so I'm interested to see if Microsoft
0:15:01keep their own visual identity and move that into these apps or if they're happy to keep
0:15:05them separate.
0:15:07I wonder about the endgame here.
0:15:11Because Google and iOS, they can make apps and even if you don't buy an Android device,
0:15:17Google is fine because they're just "ok, you use my apps, and I get your data, I collect
0:15:22your personal information, and I make money anyway".
0:15:26But Microsoft, what do they want to do?
0:15:29Because they have fine iOS apps at this point.
0:15:34And I'm not buying Windows phone devices, and by "me" I refer to the user in general.
0:15:41I don't want to buy Windows phone devices.
0:15:43I like Microsoft's apps on iOS,
0:15:47but am I supposed to pay for Microsoft services
0:15:51at this point?
0:15:52Is this how they want to use the apps for to make me pay?
0:15:56Or do they want to collect personal information about me?
0:15:59Because information doesn't seem to be
0:16:01Microsoft's business in the way that it is for Google.
0:16:06So is this a way to make me pay for Office,
0:16:09to make me pay for OneDrive?
0:16:10- Okay.
0:16:11- I think it's either to have you personally
0:16:16want to pay for Office or for you to continue to be happy
0:16:20using Microsoft products in your workplace.
0:16:23So like, basically Microsoft either need to sell it to you
0:16:28or they need to sell it to your employer.
0:16:29And if, again, we go down the bring your own device route
0:16:32because people wanna use their own devices
0:16:35because they're not happy with the other software
0:16:36and services that they're using, maybe Microsoft products.
0:16:39So if they can try and change that, and they can make you happy to use Microsoft products,
0:16:44either you buy Word for yourself, or you're happy to use it at work.
0:16:48That's the way I see it, or what I think is there.
0:16:51Because they are saying now, they are using the term "Windows as a service".
0:16:56That's what they see themselves moving towards, like they are a service provider.
0:17:01Do you think Microsoft can make money from personal users who don't need apps in the
0:17:07workplaces just work for, you know, they just use apps personally?
0:17:11I think so.
0:17:12They don't.
0:17:13I think so.
0:17:14I don't think any of their current apps are the apps that would do that.
0:17:16I think they need to think about some different things.
0:17:18But if Microsoft can continue to sell to the workplace, that's all they need to do to make
0:17:23a ton of money.
0:17:24Because every business in the world, right?
0:17:27They pretty much every single business should or will come into a point in their time where
0:17:33they will need Office.
0:17:35I had to buy Office within like two weeks of starting Relay because we received a contract
0:17:40in the Microsoft Office document file, like in Word.
0:17:44So it's like, well, there's nothing I can do about it if I need to keep the formatting
0:17:49of this document.
0:17:50So I bought Office.
0:17:52Oh yeah, for sure.
0:17:53I mean, I'm using Outlook every day.
0:17:56I keep Office on my iPad because I need Excel for how it creates charts and graphs.
0:18:02I'm just wondering, I'm not paying Microsoft any money. I don't think they're collecting...
0:18:06I mean, they are collecting data about me, but they don't show me ads or whatever. I
0:18:11don't use Bing, I don't use Outlook websites or that kind of stuff. I'm just wondering
0:18:17if they... I mean, because the app strategy needs to change, I guess, at some point. Because
0:18:24I'm... again, they have Dropbox features, so I'm not supposed to pay for OneDrive, because
0:18:30I can just use Dropbox. So I wonder if maybe down the road they will add more paid features
0:18:37to Outlook to entice me to pay more as a personal user instead of as a business owner or as
0:18:45a team manager.
0:18:46Yeah, I agree. Or there will be something where it will be like, this is great, but
0:18:51if you use OneDrive rather than Dropbox, you'll get X, Y, and Z, which is more awesome. And
0:18:56then you'll be like, this makes sense.
0:18:58Yeah, yeah. Anyway, we got lots to cover today. That was just... I don't know where that topic
0:19:03came from. Let's take a quick break. Thank our first sponsor this week. I want to take a moment
0:19:08to thank our friends over at Automattic. Automattic is a connected car adapter.
0:19:13It plugs into your car's diagnostic port, the one that your mechanic uses. Every single car
0:19:17since '96 has one of these. And then what it does, Automattic will pair to their free iPhone app,
0:19:25and it connects your car to the internet.
0:19:29The advantages of this is stuff like,
0:19:30I've spoke about this before,
0:19:31you can have all of your trips logged for you,
0:19:34that can help you out with things like gas mileage
0:19:36and things like that.
0:19:37It can help you locate your car,
0:19:39it can help you do things like
0:19:40if your check engine light comes on,
0:19:41it can explain to you in plain English what's going on,
0:19:44it can allow you to also clear those lights as well,
0:19:47right from your phone.
0:19:48But today, I wanna focus on another feature of automatic
0:19:51that's super important.
0:19:52I spoke with the guys at automatic yesterday,
0:19:54And they said, "We have this thing, we have a story.
0:19:58Would you like to share it with your listeners?"
0:20:00And they told me the story, and I do.
0:20:02So for the sake of privacy,
0:20:04we're gonna call this guy John.
0:20:06John is an automatic user.
0:20:08And last October, this is a true story,
0:20:10he was driving his Honda Accord on a rural country road,
0:20:13and he had to swerve to avoid it hitting a deer.
0:20:16John was maybe going a little bit too fast
0:20:19when he made the maneuver,
0:20:20and he had to overcorrect as he was swerving.
0:20:22It then caused his car to spin out and flip multiple times,
0:20:25eventually coming to a stop upside down
0:20:28as the car landed on its roof.
0:20:30His automatic, which he obviously had plugged in
0:20:32as being user detected what had occurred
0:20:34and immediately contacted the emergency services.
0:20:37They were able to dispatch teams
0:20:39to his exact location within a minute
0:20:41as the automatic could tell the emergency services
0:20:44exactly where the car was located.
0:20:46Luckily, John managed to avoid any serious injury.
0:20:49He was just scraped and bruised and a bit bashed up,
0:20:52but his car was completely totaled.
0:20:54And as you can imagine, John continues
0:20:55to be a loyal, automatic customer today with his new car.
0:20:59So I wanted to tell you this story
0:21:00to kind of highlight something
0:21:02that I've kind of mentioned in passing in previous weeks,
0:21:05is that it can contact emergency services for you.
0:21:08But for $99, if it can do that,
0:21:13I feel like you should kind of just have one.
0:21:16Like, if this is a situation that you can be helped in,
0:21:21Like if you flip over multiple times and land on the roof of your car, you know, obviously
0:21:26I don't want that to happen to anyone but for $99
0:21:30I think that this is maybe something you should think about if you haven't it seems like it could get you out of a pretty sticky
0:21:35Situation like this is the power of having your car connected to the internet
0:21:39Like I just thought it was a fantastic story and I wanted to share it with you
0:21:43You can order an automatic right now for just 99.95
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0:21:58It ships in two business days for free and as a 45 day return policy if you're not happy, so
0:22:03Go to automatic comm slash connected. Give it a shot. If you don't like it, you can return it, but I think you're gonna love it
0:22:10Thank you so much to automatic for sponsoring this show and all the relay FM
0:22:16All right, topic zero this week is a computer I have sitting next to me that is not, as
0:22:27you might mock me for endlessly, a some sort of old power Mac with weird ports on the back.
0:22:36It's not that.
0:22:37Okay.
0:22:38Oh, we could do that.
0:22:39We could do like old Mac of the week.
0:22:41No one would listen.
0:22:42No, no, no, no, no.
0:22:43Please go ahead.
0:22:44Please, please no. Please, please don't talk about that. Whatever you do, please don't do this stuff.
0:22:56Maybe like a month ago we talked about the Chromebook a little bit and we set a
0:23:00challenge out that I would use a Chromebook for, there was some
0:23:06disagreement but it's sort of roughly like internet work stuff, so relay stuff
0:23:11I've done some 512 stuff on it. So I kind of had a few thoughts about the Chromebook in general
0:23:17and about the one I have here and then the chat room who's listening live has asked some questions
0:23:23that I'm going to answer and then very sort of threateningly in the show notes someone has
0:23:29written "Federico has questions" so I'm a little afraid. I wrote that myself. I talked about myself
0:23:35in third person in the channels.
0:23:38- Yeah, well you have to 'cause you don't know who said it.
0:23:40- Just says I have questions.
0:23:43I like that one.
0:23:43- So the, so I have been using the Acer C720
0:23:50which is like 200 bucks on Amazon Prime.
0:23:58Pretty hard to argue with that.
0:23:59A little 11.6 inch computer.
0:24:01So kind of like, you know, MacBook Air sized.
0:24:04It's been really interesting for some reasons that I didn't really foresee.
0:24:13So the general kind of, if you're not familiar, a Chromebook is basically a laptop with like
0:24:19the Chrome browser attached to it.
0:24:23It's really about it.
0:24:24It has local storage as you can download things to it and you can, it does a lot of cool stuff
0:24:29with Google Drive, just keep that offline if your internet connection goes out and that
0:24:33sort of thing. But more or less it is a browser hooked up to a keyboard. Which is
0:24:39a little weird.
0:24:40You know we've spoken a lot in the past about sort of our love of like native
0:24:47applications and I definitely would much prefer to use something like mail.app
0:24:52over gmail on the web and especially if you have like multiple accounts and
0:24:57everything doing that all in the browser is strange. But in saying that it's
0:25:02important like I am NOT an average user by any stretch of the imagination. I
0:25:06think most people I see with even with Macs like they're opening up their
0:25:10MacBook Air and they're going to Chrome and they're doing everything in Chrome
0:25:13and for that sort of user a Chromebook actually is a really interesting product
0:25:17because it it kind of gets to the heart of what how a lot of people are using
0:25:24their computers these days you know Chrome the browser is very OS like for
0:25:29a lot of people because they're doing everything in it and so it's not a huge
0:25:32jump to see you know to see how you could live with something like this if
0:25:39you're that sort of user. There are a couple things that I that I've missed
0:25:45the two big ones are text expander and 1Password that two utilities that I rely
0:25:52on on my Mac to make me work faster. Text expander especially like when I'm
0:25:57writing have I have a lot of like markdown stuff and things I can do very
0:26:01quickly and I have to do all that manually without it. It's not that it's a
0:26:05deal breaker but it's it slows me down. I have an incredible amount of muscle
0:26:10memory devoted to TextExpander. Oh me too. It's only when I notice I quit the app
0:26:14accidentally or something and I'm like I typed something like it's broken like
0:26:18some I'd like some all I know is something's broken like I can't
0:26:22immediately work out what it is it's like oh hmm but yeah yeah. OnePassword
0:26:29does have I think one password with Dropbox and they do have something
0:26:32called one password anywhere there's a link to the show notes where you can
0:26:36actually get to your one password you log into Dropbox and you go to this this
0:26:39URL. I have Dropbox with two-factor authentication turned on so I feel a
0:26:45little bit better about about having that enabled so I can like open one
0:26:49password in a tab in Chrome and copy passwords out not great not nearly as
0:26:52integrated as it is on the Mac or even on Windows and that's one password is an
0:26:58example like sometimes it's a little weird that the Chrome extension doesn't
0:27:02work but because this syncs with Chrome on my computer it the plugin is there so
0:27:07occasionally I get like a warning saying the plugin is not working but I can't
0:27:10disable it because then it would disable it on my Mac as well because Chrome
0:27:13syncs all that stuff so there's a little like weird edge cases but all in all
0:27:18things things work pretty well so one password anyway you're accessing it in
0:27:22like via a web view you're not yeah okay so you can still get to the stuff
0:27:28but it's just no way near as useful. Right so the Acer C720 it's
0:27:36super fast the thing the thing boots up in like four seconds I mean it's it's
0:27:40really unbelievable the keyboard is not bad for an 11 inch machine it's it's not
0:27:44as good as an Apple keyboard the trackpad is not as good as an Apple
0:27:47trackpad but it's for it's the best like $200 keyboard and trackpad I've ever
0:27:51used. Battery life is just incredible I think because it is basically just a web
0:27:58browser I don't think that the OS is well power hungry but I mean routinely
0:28:03over eight hours of battery life on it easily if not more more so than that
0:28:08than I read in the in the reviews. It's still a $200 computer it still feels
0:28:13like a $200 computer in some ways but it's it's not as bad as you would think
0:28:17It's not like using like some old cruddy netbook
0:28:20It's definitely a step up from that experience that you may have had
0:28:23You know four or five six years ago when netbooks were kind of a thing
0:28:26So I have chatroom questions you guys want me just to go through these yeah, I don't want to like monologue but no
0:28:35No, I only pulled I pulled out five or six so the first one is did you install crouton?
0:28:39So crouton is a sort of I guess it's a package and a couple links in the show notes
0:28:46where the c720 as with a lot of other Chromebooks you can install Ubuntu on
0:28:51them pretty easily there's even some packages where you can install like
0:28:55Chrome OS and Linux like you can dual boot or that you can even run at the
0:28:59same time and like flip between them so you can be in Chrome OS and slide over
0:29:02to Linux and do something. I have that set up it's it's a little nuts I haven't
0:29:09been in Ubuntu a lot but if you need something for instance like Sublime Text
0:29:14Like there's not a native text editor for Chrome OS and there's some markdown stuff on the web
0:29:20But it's sort of janky. So if you need like a couple native apps you can
0:29:23You can go through these insane steps and and run Linux on this thing
0:29:28See what else our web apps as responsive as native apps
0:29:34I mean, it's very similar to how it is on the Mac. The answer is no I
0:29:40Will say that Chrome itself feels very fast on the machine
0:29:43But you're still working in web apps and I think web apps for the foreseeable future will be slower than native
0:29:49applications
0:29:52Have you experienced any bugs with audio or video tearing like that?
0:29:55YouTube and stuff works fine. I haven't had any issues with lag on the machine like even on
0:30:01Like 1080p YouTube stuff it's been it's been rock-solid no problems there at all
0:30:08Can you do audio video stuff? Can you podcast on a machine like this? Not that I've discovered.
0:30:14Again, you're basically using a browser and so you know you don't have the sort of flexibility
0:30:23you have with sort of a air quotes you know full operating system. You could probably do it on the
0:30:28Linux side but again like out of the box I don't think you could podcast on a Chromebook. That
0:30:35could change quite soon. I know there's like the weird web thing that someone's
0:30:39working on. There's a few of them. Yeah. And it's possible like the way the
0:30:45Chrome would still enable that I think even on a Chromebook you
0:30:49would still be able to do it so that there is a potential that stuff like
0:30:52that could change in the near future I think. Yeah so you know maybe at this
0:30:59point though I don't think you could because Skype is stuck in a Chrome tab.
0:31:04Can you write for 512 pixels? This doesn't connect via Skype though. Yeah no I know I know but
0:31:09currently the answer I think is no. Can you write articles for 512 pixels? Yes
0:31:17I've done several in Google Docs but it is you know not as good as something
0:31:26like Byword because it doesn't do any of the markdown stuff natively I don't
0:31:29any of the text expander stuff to like bring in a link and wrap it correctly
0:31:34and do that sort of thing so I can it's just a little bit slower and then
0:31:39someone asked what the touchscreen is like this is not the touchscreen model
0:31:42there is one that is a touchscreen but I don't like in using like it's like
0:31:49again it's using Chrome like Chrome on the Mac Chrome on this thing look the
0:31:53same like I don't think a touchscreen would be super helpful a lot of the UI
0:31:58is small, at least on this the screen resolution, so I feel like it could be a
0:32:02little frustrating to deal with the touchscreen, but I haven't had
0:32:06first-hand experience with it. So now we come to the part that Federico has
0:32:13questions. So I want to know does this get updates when the real Chrome, I guess,
0:32:23for computers is updated. Does it get the same update cycle? Did you see updates for
0:32:31Chrome OS? Yes, I've seen a couple updates. I've had this thing maybe three or four weeks.
0:32:37I've seen a couple updates. It basically just gives you a little alert in the bottom and
0:32:41you click on it and it reboots. The Chrome version is a little bit different than what's
0:32:46on the Mac. So it seems like to be maybe a different branch, but it's definitely updated
0:32:52frequently seems to be at least.
0:32:56And what's cool about it is you can actually, there's actually a website, I don't have it
0:33:00handy, but you can download a recovery image and put it on a USB key.
0:33:04So you can like wipe this thing and reformat it and all just like you can kind of a normal
0:33:12computer.
0:33:13So in general I want to know, do you think that most people would like a computer like
0:33:22this instead of a PC or a Mac or an iPad for others?
0:33:28Would you recommend this computer to other people?
0:33:32I think if budget is your primary concern I would say yes.
0:33:36I think if you've got a thousand dollars to spend I would say buy a MacBook Air because
0:33:40you get all the benefits of everything you can do in Chrome plus all the native applications
0:33:46and sort of a, you know, mature operating system.
0:33:49You know, there's been, there's been articles recently about Chromebooks and education really
0:33:54taking off and maybe even at the iPad's expense.
0:33:57I think that is definitely a place where Chromebook can really shine because they're, they're
0:34:01cheap.
0:34:02If it gets smashed, it's not a huge deal.
0:34:05Everything's web based.
0:34:06So if it, if it gets wiped or you get a different one, you just log into it and all your stuff's
0:34:10So I think if you're if you're on a budget or if you're in that sort of
0:34:14environment I think it's a at the very least a really good alternative to an
0:34:19iPad if you don't want a tablet. I would not say that it is better for the work
0:34:23that I do than an iPad I don't think it is but I could see for for a segment of
0:34:29the population maybe even a big segment at the very least it's a viable
0:34:32contender. A weird contender but again I don't maybe I'm maybe different from you
0:34:39guys in this but I don't do a lot of work in the browser like even like
0:34:43posting to 512 which is on Squarespace I'll write and buy word and do
0:34:48everything and then just copy it into Squarespace. I don't do a lot of work in a
0:34:51browser tab most days and so for me that's been weird but I think I'm in the
0:34:56minority there. I could do an incredible amount of what I do with a Chromebook
0:35:02like obviously except for the recording which is obviously extremely important
0:35:08So much of what I do is in Google Docs and I do it in the browser.
0:35:15So I would be pretty okay I think.
0:35:18I don't want to do that, but I could.
0:35:22Well there's a question I guess.
0:35:24Could you survive or would you like working like that?
0:35:29Because those are two different things.
0:35:31Yes you could survive.
0:35:32They're two massively different things, yes I agree.
0:35:35You could survive.
0:35:36I mean, I could work for Mac stories.
0:35:39I could, I don't know, use the email in the browser and then write in some markdown web
0:35:45app and then, you know, use other, use Slack in the browser.
0:35:51It would be pretty limiting.
0:35:52I wouldn't like or love working like that, I think.
0:35:57I don't know.
0:35:59There's no iMessage for the web, which is kind of a problem.
0:36:04Yeah.
0:36:05I could survive. Say that my MacBook Pro was in the shop for a week, I could get by on this.
0:36:09I wouldn't love it. I wouldn't reach for this if my MacBook Pro or my iPad were available.
0:36:15But for getting by, I could definitely do it. Wouldn't it be my first choice though,
0:36:24by any stretch?
0:36:25Any blasting for any like parting thoughts on it, Stephen?
0:36:32I mean I think I think my overall thought is that I think Chrome OS and
0:36:39maybe even the Acer C720 in particular but but Chromebooks I think are a lot
0:36:44more I can see how they're more attractive than I initially thought like
0:36:50I can see why so many people like use them especially in education but I could
0:36:59see how these things could take off in a way that I didn't understand before.
0:37:04And again it comes back to a lot of people just use their browser and this isn't a bad
0:37:09experience for that at all.
0:37:12So, I'm not switching to it, but I'm more impressed than I thought I would be.
0:37:18And I will admit I went into it pretty jaded.
0:37:22It's been a pretty enlightening little experiment.
0:37:28Do you think you're impressed because it proves that some apps can work only as browser versions
0:37:35or are you impressed because it's genuinely a good computer?
0:37:39Like I want to understand this the like do you get the feeling that yeah it's good for
0:37:46a browser or like yeah it's a good computer it's a good OS.
0:37:53I still struggle to understand Chrome OS concept.
0:37:56Why does it need to prove a point?
0:37:59You know, it sort of sounds like…
0:38:01I don't think it's about proving a point.
0:38:02I think it's that a lot of people don't need all the overhead that we deal with every
0:38:09day and that for a segment, you know, probably a growing part of the consumer population,
0:38:18this meets their needs.
0:38:20say that it really competes with OS X or even Windows, I don't think it does.
0:38:24I mean side-by-side spec sheets are hilarious, but I think there is a certain type of person
0:38:30who maybe is maybe not too computer savvy or super budget constricted or just doesn't
0:38:39need the weight of something like Mac OS X or Windows.
0:38:46And for that sort of person I think it, I think if you're in that category I think it
0:38:50is a good computer. Is it a good computer compared to my $2,000 MacBook Pro? No. But
0:38:56that doesn't mean it can't meet the needs of a segment of the population just because
0:38:59I don't fit into it very cleanly. Does that make sense? I don't know if I actually answered
0:39:04your question. I think it just depends on your needs and I think if you're on the low
0:39:09end of the market, I think it's a really... If I was to choose between this, a $200 Chromebook
0:39:14in a $400 Windows laptop, if that was sort of my two decisions, a Mac wasn't in the equation
0:39:20and an iPad was in the equation.
0:39:22I think if you're in that sort of decision-making process, and a lot of people are, then I think
0:39:28that this is a really good alternative.
0:39:31I think that's great.
0:39:32I think there needs to be choice and not just at the high end where we live, but in all
0:39:39brackets of the market, I think there should be choice.
0:39:41And I think Google's done that.
0:39:43Did you use Google Now on it?
0:39:46I did not.
0:39:47Well, so let me take that back.
0:39:49So that is sort of built into the menu bar, but since I don't use Gmail day to day, some
0:39:56of that stuff is not as helpful for me because I use iCloud for my personal stuff, which
0:40:00has been a little limiting, I think, in my experimentation.
0:40:04But it knows about basketball games and stuff.
0:40:07It kind of pops up, and that's helpful, but I don't think I get the full benefit of it
0:40:11because I'm not in the Google ecosystem with my personal data day to day.
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0:43:27Oh that's great. So again we haven't really talked about photo management
0:43:33before but we're going to try it out. So we record this show on Wednesdays as you
0:43:40know. Last week on Thursday photos the the new iPhoto aperture replacement for
0:43:48OS X shipped to developers so this is part of 10.10.3 which is not public
0:43:55yet to developers only to members of the Yosemite beta testing Appleseed program
0:44:01that sort of thing. Coming later this year it'll be in public beta I think for
0:44:06a while anyways it's here you can play with it if you're in one of those
0:44:10if you're in one of those programs and I think at least a couple of us have
0:44:16played with it a little bit and it's it's here and it's shiny and...
0:44:22Couple of us means you and Myke, usually.
0:44:25No, I haven't. I haven't touched it.
0:44:27I thought... I've played with it.
0:44:29I haven't. I have my iCAD for library just on iOS.
0:44:34Oh!
0:44:35Because I didn't want to download the beta because then what if it breaks Skype and Myke is angry and...
0:44:42Oh yeah, I just went for it.
0:44:44I had a bootable backup first. Don't worry, I did it quickly.
0:44:48Yeah, that's too much.
0:44:50Um, so it's here, I guess, I mean very quickly there's a link on Apple's website.
0:44:56So this is really funny, this came right on the heels of people like freaking out that
0:44:59Apple had removed it from its website.
0:45:01Clearly it was in preparation for this page going up.
0:45:05And in my like brief testing at least, it basically does what it's supposed to do.
0:45:12So you, it works much better than iPhoto.
0:45:16Guys it's crazy fast.
0:45:18I don't know how many my MacBook Pro is in my bag, but I've seen some
0:45:22like the verge had
0:45:25preview along with a couple of other sites and they had some videos and they were showing like how quickly
0:45:29It scrolls and I was I was presently
0:45:32Pleasantly surprised to see that. Yeah, because I photo just really fell down once you got a really big library and
0:45:40so it
0:45:42Photos can kind of work in one of two modes more or less
0:45:46You can run it just locally with your files or you can turn on
0:45:51iCloud photos and at that point it sinks your photos up to iCloud and you can view them all on your
0:45:58devices no matter where you are. So I have this turned on on my iPad and
0:46:02You know my out my test albums are all synced to my iPad
0:46:06not as quickly as I thought they would be but I think
0:46:09You know, I did this on like day one or day two and I think they're still sort of ramping up
0:46:15but
0:46:16The photos are all there if I edit them in one place the edits show up elsewhere
0:46:20So if I take a picture of
0:46:22Federico and Myke and I make it black and white on my iPad when I come back to my computer that picture is in black
0:46:26and white so it's
0:46:28It's much more seamless than it is currently where you're you take a photo or you know
0:46:34Like we all three use Dropbox if you take those
0:46:37Photos and sync them over to your device
0:46:40they're sort of view only and now you can edit them and it's more of a you
0:46:49know Steve Jobs said the truth is in the cloud that sort of thought that all of
0:46:52your devices are an equal playing field I think that's great if you're if you're
0:46:55heavy on iOS but I'm a little I'm a little worried guys all right tell me so
0:47:04that if you look at iTunes match which is sort of similar to this right where
0:47:09you have local files and your files in the cloud and you can sync them and you
0:47:14can remove your local files but they're still in the cloud and you can redownload
0:47:16them. You know iTunes match is pretty similar to this but iTunes match and
0:47:20iTunes for all of its problems I think does a pretty decent job at explaining
0:47:26to the user where their file is so if it's in iCloud or an iTunes match and
0:47:32not local you get a little cloud icon you can download them you can remove
0:47:35them it's very clear if you delete an image say hey do you want to take this
0:47:38off iCloud as well and at this point photos doesn't have much of that and
0:47:43there's a lot of language in the settings in photo of like store
0:47:48everything on your Mac which is what I think most people will should do at
0:47:52least and then it's hey I want to preserve you know keep I forget the
0:48:01settings so something along the lines of like keep an eye on my local disk space
0:48:04You know and and photos will then like delete things to keep your disc free
0:48:08But it's really confusing as to what it's actually doing. There's some you guys spoke about this on upgrade
0:48:14so I'm not gonna rehash everything y'all said but
0:48:16There's some sort of local cache and and I just worried that at some point
0:48:21it's you sort of lose track where your photo actually is and
0:48:24You know we spoke a month ago about how my iTunes match situation
0:48:31Exploded after I moved my iTunes library and took forever to straighten that out and I actually ran to an album today. That's got screwy
0:48:37Metadata has like random other tracks in it for some reason
0:48:40Why do you have to know what the photo is the photo is in iCloud
0:48:46Yeah, but is what if what if it goes wrong?
0:48:49Or what if a credit card doesn't renew your storage because Apple's charging you for it and your what do that happens then?
0:48:54There's an opportunity they're going to send you an email I guess
0:48:59But how many people have their you know like
0:49:02We've I mean, I'm sure one of us has done at some point
0:49:05I know I've done it where you have a recurring bill and your debit card changes and because it was stolen by Home Depot
0:49:09And then all of a sudden you're not paying your recurring thing like there is the opportunity
0:49:14I think for photos to fall through the cracks and the system like this
0:49:18It's even even possible between photo stream and your local albums
0:49:22It's not real clear when something is locally sorted out of the photo stream
0:49:27And I think that it's still a little too complicated
0:49:30If if I James match explodes and I suddenly have Mumford and Sons inner leave in a Kanye album like that's super annoying
0:49:38But I can deal with it because it's just music right I can go redownload it
0:49:41I can sort it out, but if it if it
0:49:44Takes photos of my kids and all of a sudden. I'm missing some of them because I thought they were
0:49:52on iCloud so I deleted them off my local machine and really I deleted both copies
0:49:57Like that's not good. And I think Apple needs to really make this
0:50:02Like fail-safe like you cannot like there's got to be big alarms going off before you completely nuke something
0:50:09From existence and and currently that's not true. And this is the first build that there's lots of lots of things
0:50:16I see if you try to delete something like it just deletes it like you don't you don't know
0:50:22like necessarily where you're deleting it from and or it doesn't kind of say
0:50:26like you're deleting this from the cloud now so it's gone forever like there is
0:50:30no backup yeah this photo like understand that like or what happens
0:50:35you know like when what what if you have your photo library on two Macs and one
0:50:41Mac is offline for two weeks and like and they fall out of sync can it get it
0:50:45back updated correctly even iTunes match doesn't do that perfectly every time and
0:50:51And so there's a lot of these weird edge cases when you have data locally and you have data
0:50:54in the cloud and there's some layer in between connecting them.
0:50:59Like it's got to be flawless.
0:51:04Photos cannot drop a file, it can't duplicate a file.
0:51:08It's got to be perfect and I don't quite trust iCloud to do that yet.
0:51:15The thing that I don't like, is kind of what you touched on,
0:51:18is the idea of ambiguous deletion.
0:51:23And I get from a UI and a user experience perspective
0:51:28why that just works metaphor, that idea.
0:51:32So you've got 40 gigabytes of hard drive space.
0:51:35Oh, and now you've only got 20,
0:51:38so we're gonna take away some of your photos for you.
0:51:40It's like, I don't know how,
0:51:44Because that's so hidden, as in how does it make those decisions,
0:51:49there's just something about that that puts me on edge.
0:51:51And yes, in theory, of course, they're in iCloud,
0:51:54and it shouldn't be a problem.
0:51:55I'm sorry, guys, I still don't understand what's the problem here,
0:51:59because the photos are in iCloud.
0:52:01But the problem is, the problem is,
0:52:04what if something goes wrong?
0:52:06Like, let's just say, and it will happen to people,
0:52:10like, that something's going to go wrong, right?
0:52:12'cause you're not gonna have a 100% success rate.
0:52:15Like at some point, someone's gonna have a problem
0:52:18where they're gonna lose some files that are in the cloud.
0:52:21And if you keep them on a machine
0:52:23and you think that they might be there,
0:52:25but they're not because the Photos app.
0:52:28So let's say that you, Federico Vatici,
0:52:31you have 50 gigabytes of photos, that's all you have, right?
0:52:35- Okay.
0:52:36- And you have a 100 gigabyte hard drive.
0:52:39Now, you've selected for Apple to make sure that you've got the right space.
0:52:44And let's say that like...
0:52:45Whoa, whoa, what I've selected?
0:52:47Right, so there's a setting in the Photos app.
0:52:50Okay, so there's stuff I don't understand.
0:52:52There's a setting?
0:52:53Right, so there's a setting in the Photos app that says, effectively...
0:52:59On the Mac?
0:53:00On the Mac.
0:53:01Okay.
0:53:02Remove files from this machine if I run low on hard drive space.
0:53:06Okay, so it removes them from your machine.
0:53:09IOS has the same setting actually.
0:53:11- Optimized storage, yeah.
0:53:13- So let's say--
0:53:14- The files don't go away.
0:53:16It's like when you tap a photo,
0:53:18it downloads the full resolution.
0:53:20So if you want to save storage,
0:53:21they remove the full resolution
0:53:23and you still see the thumbnail,
0:53:25then you can tap it and you re-download it.
0:53:27- But my point is like,
0:53:28let's say that you have files removed from your machine,
0:53:31you didn't necessarily know that they were gone
0:53:33because you still see the thumbnails.
0:53:35And then something goes wrong in the cloud, right?
0:53:37Something.
0:53:38'cause it's gonna happen to some people.
0:53:41And then you try and get those files back
0:53:43and they're not there anymore.
0:53:45I just have a concern about it 'cause it's like,
0:53:48I personally don't like the idea of it just,
0:53:51and I probably will never turn this setting on
0:53:54for it to just, or remove things
0:53:57and put things back and take them away.
0:53:59I will maybe have it like one machine
0:54:02that always keeps that setting on
0:54:04and it's just always got everything.
0:54:06But my concern is for like the one family or like the one person who has an 11 inch
0:54:12MacBook Air with a small hard drive and they select that setting and then something goes
0:54:16wrong because the difference between like...
0:54:18I think you're overthinking it, honestly.
0:54:20Well no.
0:54:21It's just a setting to remove the cache.
0:54:24But what happens if the originals...
0:54:27But then the originals aren't there then, are they?
0:54:29No, because why are you thinking about originals?
0:54:32This is not like the finder.
0:54:34You take a picture on your phone and it goes in iCloud and then it goes to other devices.
0:54:39Okay, but let's talk about the pictures that you take on your DSLR, you put them into the
0:54:45photos app.
0:54:46Oh, but that's what all people do.
0:54:47Come on.
0:54:48Okay, you take a picture on your phone.
0:54:50You take a picture on your phone of an important family occasion, right?
0:54:53And you put it on your Mac and then you think that it's going to be there and then a problem
0:54:57happens in iCloud and the picture's not in iCloud anymore and now the picture's no longer
0:55:01on your Mac.
0:55:02longer have that photo? I got lost there. Why would I take a picture on my phone and
0:55:10then connect it to a computer? Alright, so you take a picture on your phone. The point
0:55:15is that you take a picture on your phone. I don't know why you can't understand this.
0:55:18Maybe I'm stupid. I take a picture, because I've been using iCard for library for months,
0:55:24so I take a picture on my phone and that's it. I'm done. The picture goes into iCloud.
0:55:30when it works. It's just my... I have a concern just about... Forget it. We're not
0:55:34gonna get through this. Why are you thinking so much about this? Because
0:55:38here's the thing. So here's the bottom line here. That you are
0:55:43trusting Apple, you're trusting iCloud with things that cannot be replaced.
0:55:48Right? Like... And so it has to work perfectly. And so far in very limited
0:55:55testing it has but let's just be real here Apple is not the best cloud service
0:56:00company in the world and so there's an opportunity if you don't have the
0:56:04originals on your disk and the originals are only in iCloud and you stop paying
0:56:11or you somehow end up in a situation where you're in between and you don't
0:56:17have the originals and something happens you could be caught without your
0:56:21original images and that is something that is, it might not be a big deal to some
0:56:27people but is a huge deal to me and a huge deal to a lot of people. And all I'm
0:56:33saying is that Apple has to prove to me that they have their word that I'm not
0:56:39going to say on the air together about this file management stuff and the
0:56:45app is great I actually really like the app but I'm not sold that I'm going to
0:56:50ever choose the setting for to optimize the space. I think I'm always going to
0:56:56have them on my local drive because that I could put my hands on it I know where
0:57:01they're I know that they are there and I just I worry that Apple's language
0:57:09around it isn't clear enough that's all I'm saying. I think if they can I think
0:57:13I think they will I think they will improve this where it makes more sense
0:57:16to a user when they sit down knowing where their things are.
0:57:20Because if you don't know where your things are and you make a bad decision, you could
0:57:24lose your originals.
0:57:27And that's bad.
0:57:29That's all we're saying.
0:57:30I think how you end up there, there's a bunch of different ways.
0:57:33But ultimately, they've got to make it crystal clear so you can understand what's going on.
0:57:40So anyways, all of that aside...
0:57:42Guys, I'm sorry, I don't understand.
0:57:44I don't mean to sound like I don't believe you because I believe you have a problem.
0:57:50It's just I don't think I have the same problem.
0:57:52So it's difficult for me to understand like this talk about the originals.
0:57:57Like I don't follow what the problem is probably because I don't use a Mac.
0:58:03I think the main problem is my notion of file is different.
0:58:08You don't have original.
0:58:09I never see that.
0:58:10That's why I never see the actual files.
0:58:13I don't understand what's going on.
0:58:15What is an original?
0:58:16You gave up the originals a long time ago, my friend.
0:58:18What is an original?
0:58:19I mean, I just take a picture and it goes to an icon.
0:58:25Oh, very cavatice.
0:58:26While Stephen was talking, so, okay, real talk.
0:58:29While Stephen was talking, I opened the photos app on my phone and I went to two years ago,
0:58:37I tapped the little thumbnail and there's a spinner in the bottom right
0:58:42and it loads for like three seconds and then I see the original. Is that the original?
0:58:49Well, that's the original.
0:58:50Well, yeah, but we're talking about like a file that you can see.
0:58:56Like a JPEG.
0:58:57Yes.
0:58:58Could you kind of give that up and if Apple were going to like delete the master copy from your machine
0:59:05So you see the file on the Mac? The actual JPEG file of the photo?
0:59:13I think you still can. You can still inspect the package and open it up, right?
0:59:18Yeah.
0:59:19Oh, okay. So why didn't you guys explain this to me?
0:59:22Well, me and Steven understood it.
0:59:25Well, I didn't. Clearly, I didn't.
0:59:28Yeah.
0:59:29So, there's, sort of in conjunction with this, there's been a lot of conversation around
0:59:37the fact that this is not a professional application.
0:59:39Now, it supports raw images, you can import and sync raw images, but you don't have a
0:59:44lot of the raw editing controls that you get in something like Lightroom or Bridge or Photoshop.
0:59:50What is a raw?
0:59:51I always wonder, what is a raw?
0:59:53It's like a package of files?
0:59:58is a it is an image it's so raw is actually a term for a lot of different
1:00:04formats different camera vendors use different formats but basically it's an
1:00:07image that you have a lot more data to it it's not a compress it's not a
1:00:12compressed image like a JPEG is and so you have a lot more editing capability
1:00:16they're a lot bigger a lot higher quality usually an aperture and
1:00:22Lightroom can deal with raw files directly but after is going away and
1:00:26there's this article over at iMore that is basically saying you know photos is a
1:00:31sort of consumer maybe prosumer app but it's not it's not a Lightroom
1:00:37competitor the controls the fine grained controls you have in something like
1:00:42Lightroom you don't exist here and I agree with that but what I think is
1:00:48interesting is that there's sort of this idea of you know you have iMovie and you
1:00:56have Final Cut you have GarageBand and you have Logic. Is something like
1:01:01Aperture going to make a comeback? Is there room is there a reason for Apple to
1:01:06do professional photos app at some point since they have one they haven't really
1:01:14cared about it in a long time like Aperture is pretty always actually for a
1:01:18long time Aperture's been in pretty sorry state. So I don't know, do you guys think Apple
1:01:23cares about the professional photographer anymore or do you think
1:01:28that they're just gonna go middle of the road and and move on? I think care is a
1:01:33is a is a too harsh a word. That's a loaded word. But it is the word that everybody uses. I think
1:01:41that it is it doesn't need to be high in Apple's priorities anymore to provide
1:01:47and develop Pro applications because there are lots, well not lots, but there
1:01:54are competitors, right? I think that it is potentially, I'm sorry Aperture users, a
1:02:00waste of Apple's resources to be competing with Adobe to create something
1:02:06like Aperture. And I genuinely feel like that my beloved logic will go that
1:02:13way one day. I think that Apple's time as being the vendor of the pro app, it
1:02:19doesn't need to exist anymore because the pro app vendors, they all have, they're
1:02:26all third-party versions, they're all third-party competitors.
1:02:30Apple don't need to try and lock in the creative professional like they
1:02:35used to because that's kind of, they're just there now, you don't need to
1:02:39have that advantage. I think they tried to, and succeeded for many years,
1:02:43to get the illustrators and the photographers and the audio
1:02:48professionals and stuff by creating their own apps. I think that Apple's
1:02:53business is so focused in other markets and other areas now that it's continuing to
1:02:59devote so much time and resource to expensive apps when they don't even
1:03:03charge really expensive prices for them anymore. I think it's kind of a fool's
1:03:07there and for them and I think they're realizing that which is why they're
1:03:10starting to phase out or significantly re-architect these applications like
1:03:15Final Cut for example how that changed if they even keep that going but they
1:03:20changed it significantly they did a similar kind of thing for Logic it had a
1:03:25massive overhaul and and I think that stuff like Aperture is gonna go away
1:03:30eventually I think logic is gonna go away and and they're just gonna start
1:03:34focusing on making their consumer apps a good place, like the prosumer, try and make them
1:03:44fit in the middle somewhere, but trying to service that market completely, I don't think
1:03:48they need to consider dealing with anymore.
1:03:51Yeah, I mean, I'm really divided on it.
1:03:55I think that they could come back and do something professional.
1:04:00Even with the iMac videos, photographers, yay!
1:04:07But I don't know, I think if something does come, I think they're going to have photos
1:04:14fully rounded out and then move upstream.
1:04:19But I don't think they necessarily have to.
1:04:22I think mostly because professional photographers don't really...
1:04:28this sort of idea of like I want to sync all my files around all my devices like
1:04:31that doesn't really appeal to a lot of professional photographers at least that I
1:04:35know that they need the editing tools and they already have their own crazy
1:04:38storage system and photos is very much about the storage system so maybe it is
1:04:43a sort of a different like philosophical issue they've got to deal with as well
1:04:49but I don't know I thought it was interesting I think that it's fine this
1:04:52is consumer oriented I think it needs to be but we'll see where they go in the
1:04:57future I guess. I just don't have thoughts. Well I mean you're again it's
1:05:03it's totally different for you I mean yeah do you want to see like Apple start
1:05:08to create professional level applications for iOS? Yeah of course I
1:05:15mean if people ask for it if there's a market for professional users and
1:05:22photography I guess. But I mean there's always the third-party ecosystem.
1:05:28Yeah that's kind of what I wonder like is third parties better to service that
1:05:34market than Apple? I believe yes.
1:05:36Probably. As long as Apple makes solid APIs that's a bigger concern for me. As long as they allow other people to go where they don't want to go I think it's better
1:05:48because they seem, especially in the past few years, they seem that they've moved away
1:05:53from the pro market to let more like normals, normal people do basic stuff in a decent way
1:06:04rather than have no solution for the stupid people like me and have Aperture or iPhoto
1:06:12which was one professional and the other two complex.
1:06:16Now they have the Photos app, which is for everybody.
1:06:20And so if they don't want to spend resources and time
1:06:23to do a new aperture, maybe they can just do the APIs
1:06:27and let Adobe do Lightroom and that kind of stuff.
1:06:30I think it's better.
1:06:32So Apple doesn't do half-baked solutions everywhere.
1:06:36They do one simple solution for everybody
1:06:39and they let other people,
1:06:40That's the thing about the App Store, that lets people do stuff.
1:06:44Yeah, I think it's fundamentally a better way for Apple to do business, is to focus themselves that way.
1:06:50They cannot cover every possible market, so...
1:06:54So just do as much as you can for the best of your abilities, rather than kind of like half-arsing both.
1:07:01Yeah. From my perspective it seems better, I think.
1:07:05Arguably that's what they were doing with photos anyway.
1:07:07I don't know how good Aperture was, but I know a lot of people that I know and trust
1:07:12their opinion in those things were using Lightroom.
1:07:16And I could never go near iPhoto.
1:07:19Yeah I tried to use iPhoto on the Mac before.
1:07:22My girlfriend still uses iPhoto on the Mac.
1:07:24I don't know how she does it.
1:07:26I tried to use iPhoto on iOS two years ago when it came out.
1:07:31It was so confusing.
1:07:32There were different interfaces all over the place.
1:07:37And it was not just about this Qmorphic stuff.
1:07:40It was really difficult to use and to understand and to browse.
1:07:44It was super awkward.
1:07:46And now the Photos app, it's just...
1:07:47I mean, there's a few things I don't like about the Photos app.
1:07:51Like the way that it doesn't let you see photos on a map.
1:07:56I know you can enter the details for like a specific section of what is called the moment
1:08:03in the view, in the Photos view.
1:08:05can view a moment on a map, but you cannot view every single photo on a map, like you
1:08:11can do in day one.
1:08:13You can see all your photos from all your years in your collection on a map.
1:08:18There's a few things I don't like, but overall it's much better, and for me it's
1:08:22been super... like, it's been, and I mean this in a good way, it's been really nothing.
1:08:30I don't have to think about it.
1:08:31It's just there.
1:08:32Like it's supposed to do, it's supposed to be there and it does the stuff for me and
1:08:37I just take a picture and the picture is everywhere and then I tap it and it's what it's supposed
1:08:42to be.
1:08:43And I'm paying a euro a month so I guess that's a good price.
1:08:48It should be free.
1:08:49It's kind of awkward that it's not free.
1:08:51It should be free I think, 20 gigs at least.
1:08:55But whatever, you know?
1:08:56Again, I think over the years I kind of become stupid in a way because I used to do the finder,
1:09:06jpegs and I mean at one point I had a PHP script like some sort of bizarre marko armand.
1:09:15A PHP script to move my photos around and now I'm just letting iCloud sync my pictures
1:09:24And I know that many people have horror stories about Apple photo apps deleting pictures.
1:09:34There's my friend Nate on Twitter.
1:09:37He had his iPhoto rivalry wiped clean by iPhoto a couple of years ago.
1:09:42That was scary.
1:09:43That's fine.
1:09:44But now...
1:09:45Yeah.
1:09:46Now...
1:09:47That's why you need the originals.
1:09:49Yes.
1:09:50I'm just saying now, iCloud photo library has been there and it works. So I'm happy
1:09:58so far. Hopefully they won't screw it up. They won't do anything stupid to iCloud. I
1:10:06don't know. To answer your question, Myke, I think it's a better solution to let most
1:10:11people have something that works rather than different segments with something they're
1:10:17not really happy with. Yeah and to maybe round this out the upside of all this is
1:10:26that you if you use iCloud stuff you do have a backup of your images which is
1:10:34more than what most people have currently I think so there are there is
1:10:39like there's a lot of upside to this I don't mean to throw cold water over
1:10:43the whole thing I just need Apple to prove that they can be trusted with it
1:10:48but I think for a lot of people it is going to give them another layer of
1:10:53protection they don't have currently. I don't know how many people I've seen
1:10:57over the years doing tech support who lose documents and the first thing they
1:11:02ask is about, they lose data and the first thing they ask about is photos when a
1:11:07hard drive crashes or something like that so I think there's a lot of upside
1:11:11to this I do wish that it was not that the storage was free you do have to pay
1:11:20for iCloud storage still it's much more reasonable than it used to be and you
1:11:24can pay for a lot more than you used to be able to but it's still something that
1:11:29I think that Apple should I think Apple should should throw this in for people
1:11:34especially if they want this to take off if it's if it's behind a paid thing
1:11:41You know, if you're paying 10 bucks a month or 500 gigs of storage, it's going to turn
1:11:46a lot of people off.
1:11:47And so I would like to see them address that, but I don't really have any anticipation that
1:11:52they actually will.
1:11:53I still subscribe.
1:11:54You know, actually I have a thought, if you guys don't mind.
1:11:59There is one thing I'm not happy with about iCloud is that they don't explain iCloud to
1:12:05people.
1:12:07Like I know that there's the website and they have sections in the settings, but like every
1:12:13time my friends and my family, they come to me and they ask me what is iCloud?
1:12:19Am I supposed to pay because it says that I'm over the 5GB?
1:12:25And I think, especially for photos, they should like have some sort of explanatory video on
1:12:32iPhones and iPads, and with simple words they tell you, you enable this iCloud photo library
1:12:41and all your photos go into iCloud and you don't need to delete photos from your device
1:12:49anymore to make space for something else. Because all the time I see, for instance,
1:12:55I'm going to a concert, right?
1:12:58And my friend says, "Oh, I cannot shoot a video because people record videos of live
1:13:03performances.
1:13:05I cannot shoot video because I need to delete some photos."
1:13:09And so they go through the camera roll and maybe like they do this sort of weird magic
1:13:15tricks.
1:13:17They send pictures over WhatsApp to somebody else as a backup.
1:13:22That's crazy.
1:13:23They send the picture and they delete the picture so they can have more space for the
1:13:27video.
1:13:28So they need some sort of simple, human, non-geeky explanation that says "You enable this feature,
1:13:37you give us one dollar every month and we store your pictures".
1:13:42And it needs to be an explanation that my mom doesn't need to go to the Apple website,
1:13:47My father doesn't need to go to Mac stories and read crazy guy talking about iCloud.
1:13:53He needs to be there and need to explain to people what it is because I think right now
1:13:58Apple always has done this sort of explanations of iCloud and people still don't get it.
1:14:05So I think there needs to be a simple way, maybe make it like the trackpad videos they
1:14:11have in OS X to explain the gestures.
1:14:14They actually show you a hand doing the gestures.
1:14:18So show me somebody with iCloud.
1:14:21Show me Tim Cook walking into a server room or whatever, indicating like pointing his
1:14:26finger to a server rack or something.
1:14:30Show me a video of what is iCloud.
1:14:34And I think that sounds so stupid and maybe kind of gross to show me a video, but I think
1:14:40most people still don't get iCloud.
1:14:43They won't get iCloud photo library, especially after all the confusion of photo stream, whatever.
1:14:50Just make it simple.
1:14:52Make it simple.
1:14:53Explain it even simpler, if it makes sense.
1:14:56Yeah, I don't disagree at all.
1:14:58I think it's overwhelming to approach it because it is so many things, right?
1:15:03Like iCloud is a collection of, I don't even know how many, 10 features at this point or
1:15:08something.
1:15:09So I think you're absolutely right.
1:15:10a lot of room for improvement on that front.
1:15:15That WhatsApp thing, like, I can totally see that happening and it's like, the things people
1:15:20do with computers is terrifying.
1:15:24Yes.
1:15:25Yeah, something like, I think it was last year, I went to this concert with a group
1:15:35of friends and they started sending pictures as attachments over email and then they deleted
1:15:43the pictures from the folder library because they wanted to take a video.
1:15:48And then they said the video will go to Facebook.
1:15:51So when the video is on Facebook, then I delete the video from…
1:15:55Oh my god.
1:15:57No, please stop.
1:16:00But yeah, they do crazy things.
1:16:03- All right, we still have one more thing we wanna get to,
1:16:05but before we do that,
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1:17:19like I mentioned to Microsoft Office earlier,
1:17:21that when you start running a business,
1:17:24like after a couple of weeks, I'm like,
1:17:27"Oh, I need PDF Pen all the time now because contracts come through or I get these documents
1:17:34that are sent to me in weird file formats and I just want to make a PDF out of them
1:17:39and maybe change some bits and bobs here and there.
1:17:42You can open Word files and export them as PDFs which I like to do so then I can view
1:17:46them really easily and quickly."
1:17:48Also our friend at the internet, Sir David Sparks, he's done a great set of videos that
1:17:53that show the great power of PDF Pen Pro 7 and PDF Pen 7.
1:17:57These can be found at Smile's website as well.
1:17:59But this is kind of one of those apps that like,
1:18:02if you do anything with PDFs,
1:18:03you ever fill out any forms or anything like that,
1:18:06this is an app that you need.
1:18:07And it's kind of one of those apps that once you have it,
1:18:09you start to realize how many more things
1:18:11you can do with it.
1:18:12So PDF Pen, it's totally essential.
1:18:15I think it's something that should be
1:18:16in many people's Mac toolkit.
1:18:18And it's something that you should be thinking about
1:18:20if you haven't looked at it before.
1:18:21So go and find out more about PDF Pen Pro 7 and PDF Pen 7 from Smile at smilesoftware.com/connected.
1:18:29Thank you so much to Smile for their support of this episode.
1:18:36So Tim Cook, a guy you might have heard of, spoke I guess yesterday at a Goldman Sachs
1:18:43conference and iMore has a link to basically they I guess they listened and
1:18:51what's the what is the word I'm looking for transcribed transcribed Tim Cook's
1:18:56comments and it's super long and there's some interesting things in here and I
1:19:00thought maybe we could just talk about some points that jumped out at us before
1:19:04we do that I want to do that I want to I want to mention how this happened for me
1:19:09this morning so it's the I knew that this call was happening so I've seen
1:19:13some of the headlines and then I kind of I open my iPhone this morning and you'd
1:19:17sent me a link and was like read this for the show and I'm like okay no
1:19:20worries I open it up and I start reading like and I'm scrolling through, scrolling
1:19:24through a couple of paragraphs through and I look at the scroll bar I'm like oh
1:19:27my lord how long is this like yeah 6,000 words or something like it's a full
1:19:33transcription of like a 40 minute talk so then I started looking around online
1:19:37for the audio version right because I was like there must be audio of this and
1:19:42I don't want to read this.
1:19:44So I'm looking around online,
1:19:46and I could only find the live stream audio
1:19:51you know, on Apple's website.
1:19:53So I was listening to that,
1:19:53that was 45 minutes that run for.
1:19:55I was like, oh, it's probably faster for me to read it.
1:19:58So then I thought, oh, maybe somebody's huffed off there.
1:20:00So then I could put it into Overcast
1:20:03and do it at double speed.
1:20:04No, they hadn't.
1:20:05So I then remembered friend of the show,
1:20:08Mr. Matthew Bischoff's app, Velocity,
1:20:10which is a speed reading app.
1:20:11So I put it in velocity and I had it done in 15 minutes.
1:20:15- And quite a workflow you got there.
1:20:17- It's a whole thing that I had.
1:20:19And I felt happier about myself because I found a way to,
1:20:22that was a life hack.
1:20:24- Do you wanna write for backstory?
1:20:27- If you wanna just transcribe what I just said,
1:20:30then you can have it.
1:20:31I'm not writing it.
1:20:32(laughing)
1:20:33- Okay.
1:20:34- So he, we can just kind of blast through this.
1:20:40He starts off with sort of a--
1:20:43so Apple's coming off their strongest quarter ever,
1:20:45which we really didn't talk about.
1:20:46It kind of fell in between shows for us a little bit.
1:20:48But basically, Apple sold all the things
1:20:50and made all the money.
1:20:52Yeah, and during this talk as well,
1:20:55Apple reached their highest market cap of all time, right?
1:20:58Yeah, which is just nuts.
1:21:01So he's talking about hardware, he's talking about software.
1:21:03But what I really came away from this beginning part
1:21:05is he talks about services a lot.
1:21:06He talks about HealthKit and HomeKit and CarPlay.
1:21:09And really, I think only the first one of those is doing anything.
1:21:12Like, I haven't heard much about HomeKit.
1:21:15You know, CarPlay is like a thing, but maybe not very good.
1:21:18Uh, it's surprising that he pushed them so hard.
1:21:21Um, you know, I did find myself kind of thinking, Oh yeah,
1:21:26they did do all that stuff.
1:21:28Like I did.
1:21:31Like I just totally forgotten about these things and was like, yeah, okay.
1:21:34It's in theory, very ambitious.
1:21:38It just hasn't... just not much has been done with it yet, you know?
1:21:42It's just because you don't have a car.
1:21:44Or a home.
1:21:46[laughter]
1:21:47Or a health.
1:21:49Oh yeah, I don't have no health.
1:21:51What if your car is your home?
1:21:53Then I guess home, health kit and carplay work well.
1:21:57Two birds with one stone, Steve.
1:22:01So is it that this stuff is just gonna be on a long cycle
1:22:05and it's gonna be a little while before you really see like HomeKit take off?
1:22:09Is it that HealthKit was so bad at launch that developers are afraid of it and haven't integrated with it yet? Is it that
1:22:17CarPlay is only reserved in new cars and why people don't buy brand new cars? Like I don't know like
1:22:24Clearly this stuff is not making a big impact now
1:22:27But maybe it will in the future or maybe it will just fizzle out like I don't know iDVD themes like I don't know
1:22:33It's it's just weird that he pushed it as hard as he did. Are you are you comparing people's health to?
1:22:39IDVD themes that was a time people cared about I DVD themes, you know, and now it's not
1:22:46Poor I do
1:22:50It's funny he picked I DVD
1:22:54Is this like a thing that like was a thing and now it's not right yeah
1:23:02Listening to... Oh, listening. Reading Tim say this stuff, like...
1:23:06It did make me think about HealthKit as like really something that will come into its own with the Apple Watch.
1:23:14And that's when it will start to become sensible.
1:23:17Like he mentioned one thing that I don't know if I knew this or I'd forgotten about this.
1:23:23Like about how the Apple Watch will tap you on the wrist if you're sitting down for too long.
1:23:28And it's like, I really want that.
1:23:30Yes.
1:23:31that's something I need and I like that and it did but you know that tactic
1:23:36feedback thing like I'm really interested in that because the word like
1:23:41it taps you I mean okay like I don't think that we can fully understand how
1:23:46that feels until that happens you know because it's like it's like Tim Cook is
1:23:51holding your hand I mean just work which is exactly what I want okay we're all
1:23:56good here so carry on Steven. I think it's just like a just tap your wrist um
1:24:04so he goes from that talks about IBM which is boring talks about the
1:24:09environment and this they make an announcement with their first solar
1:24:13partnership do you guys see this they're building a a new solar farm that's like
1:24:181300 acres. Rockets. It will be quite a story. Maybe. Just rockets. It's to power the
1:24:29the Apple Campus 2 which is really cool and some other things. It reminded me of
1:24:38the when was it a couple years ago when someone was like badgering Tim Cook in a
1:24:43meeting about like that the environmental stuff wasn't a good use of
1:24:48money and he was like if you all you care about the RIs get out of the stock
1:24:52right like this so far to me like if you zoom way out on Apple and Tim Cook's
1:24:57leadership the two things that stand out are the watch and his relentless push
1:25:04for... I would also throw diversity into the mix there as well. I think it's great. I think that's been
1:25:12another key thing. Yes, the intersection of diversity. He actually told the people in
1:25:19the audience that they needed to have more women, which was kind of awesome. He threw
1:25:23a sick burn in for no reason, I loved it. He was just like, yeah, there's a lot of guys
1:25:28here. Yeah, he's like on the stage, he's like, oh, by the way, you know, you guys, Goldman
1:25:34Sachs. These are the same. Do you guys ever seen the Twitter account GS Elevator, the
1:25:41Goldman Sachs elevator. It's like tweets for people from the Goldman Sachs. It's
1:25:46awful awful things they say in the elevator of Goldman Sachs office,
1:25:53whatever, building, I don't know. It's a funny Twitter account. I'll put it in the
1:25:58show notes. GS elevator, yeah. Looking. GS elevator. So it talks a little bit, it
1:26:06countermutes from that talks about the watch and basically says that it's sort
1:26:13of like next in line with iPod iPhone iPad levels of importance which I don't
1:26:21know if we talked about it so sometimes I get confused as we said something or I
1:26:25hear it on other podcasts so forgive me but they're very confident about the
1:26:29watch and like even in this thing saying that it's gonna be like as impactful as
1:26:34of the devices is pretty bold.
1:26:36- Yeah, with MG.
1:26:38- Was it, I black out during many podcasts.
1:26:42Do you guys see that?
1:26:45Like, do you think that like in 10 years,
1:26:47the watch is gonna make this world different
1:26:49than the iPod and iPhone did?
1:26:50- I can't see it right now.
1:26:51I think they're being too confident.
1:26:52Like the confidence says something which might be good
1:26:55that they believe in it.
1:26:57I don't see it like being,
1:26:59like you know how they, during the watch announcement,
1:27:04they show, you know, they show like we had these three breakthrough things, you know,
1:27:08like, and they show like the Mac and the iPod and the iPhone.
1:27:13I don't think in 20 years the watch is going to be one of those, like, I just don't see it.
1:27:18I think the work they're doing on the watch rather than the watch itself as a device,
1:27:25as a name, will make an impact in history.
1:27:29That's a good point, yeah.
1:27:31I think the work on wearable and like... because you're going to end up with a computer on
1:27:36your skin anyway.
1:27:38I think that's a fact personally.
1:27:40So I think the work will be remembered more than the brand.
1:27:45Which is probably not how it will be for the Mac or the iPhone.
1:27:49Like we'll remember those products but maybe like we'll... basically they'll say like you
1:27:55know if you remember we started this with a watch.
1:27:58But even to an extent, you're already doing the same with the iPod and the iPhone, because
1:28:05part of the... the iPhone comes from the iPod, you know?
1:28:09You know what I'm trying to say?
1:28:10That basically...
1:28:11Yeah, I mean everything's on a line.
1:28:13Maybe there will be the Apple Watch, and then after the Apple Watch, like a big wearable
1:28:17thing, and then, like, the Apple Watch will be remembered, but there will be the next
1:28:23thing based on the Apple Watch.
1:28:25be like the iPhone because the iPod surely changed history and music but the iPhone really
1:28:32changed society you know that's I think I'll go down in history I don't know
1:28:43I think that's fair I think what the watch lacks those other things have is a unique
1:28:50interface like the watch is still touch right like you have the digital crown but it's only
1:28:56used in certain situations where the mouse the click wheel and using your finger were
1:29:03so defining to those original products I just don't see the watch having that same sort
1:29:10of weight historically but we're on the side of it so ask me again when I'm you know 10
1:29:1615 years down the road. You will be like 70. At least 85.
1:29:22You'll still be able to walk us 15 years? Just wondering.
1:29:27Maybe. Yeah, just turn the oxygen down lower so you don't hear it.
1:29:31He has this quote after this, and he says, "Tim's been with Apple since like '97."
1:29:46He came to Apple after Steve came back, right after Steve came back.
1:29:49And he says, "I'm not a historian, so I can't tell you about the beginning of time,
1:29:52but I really don't think Apple was ever a hardware company."
1:29:55Basically saying that Apple, he views Apple as a software company first, which is something
1:30:00Steve Jobs said several times.
1:30:02And it's something that I think even in talking with photos just a couple of minutes ago,
1:30:08I do think that Apple views itself as a software company first and that the hardware is just
1:30:14a means to an end that the iPhone is what it is so iOS can be what it is.
1:30:21For a software company they really treat their hardware well.
1:30:25It's not like that they're just kind of like, "We just make a phone."
1:30:30Like, "Look at the diamond cut chamfer edge."
1:30:34And I'm not saying it's not a criticism.
1:30:37It's just interesting.
1:30:38Like a company...
1:30:39Because you know, arguably at the moment they're doing hardware better than software.
1:30:47People don't complain about the way that their iPhones are put together as much as they complain
1:30:51about the way that their phones crash.
1:30:58Yeah, and I think maybe a more appropriate way of saying it now is that Apple is a user
1:31:04experience company that it is even like again with photos Apple is trying to
1:31:12blur the lines between software and service that you don't really know where
1:31:16the application ends and the cloud begins and while I might have issues
1:31:19with that at times it's hard to argue that it is a bad thing in the grand
1:31:26scheme of things to to merge services and software and I think Apple very
1:31:31clearly their stuff works better when you have iCloud turned on or you know
1:31:36same way that Android works a lot better if you have a Google account so that's a
1:31:39trend overall in the industry but I think Apple is out there in front. It
1:31:45jumped out at me in reading the transcript because it's it's something
1:31:49that that Jobs said it's old Alan Kay quote that if you want to be serious
1:31:53about or if you want to write your own software you have to be serious about
1:31:56hardware. Tim should have called you for the historian. I think it's interesting. I
1:32:00I think it's easier to test hardware than it is to put together good software.
1:32:06Oh for sure. I mean I was kind of poking fun, but like it's just an interesting thing that I find that yes, I agree
1:32:14they're a software company, but like
1:32:16the hardware is not... it's not like as a software company
1:32:21they don't care about hardware, you know, because they clearly do because they go to much larger lengths than anybody else.
1:32:28That was kind of my point and then I was kind of poking fun.
1:32:31I think people would be really really concerned if Apple's hardware starting to be of lesser quality,
1:32:40you know, like if iPhones started... not the stupid gates that there are every year.
1:32:46Like if iPhones started to like to, you know, to have like cracked screens for no reasons or
1:32:53like
1:32:55Yeah, but for real like like it would be that would be a problem because people just expect the Apple
1:33:02hardware to be
1:33:05To be I guess that it's not a something you need to worry about
1:33:09Even if people even if people buy a lot of iPhone cases
1:33:14That's another another thing. I noticed all like I bought a case myself eventually
1:33:23People really protect their Apple hardware, I think
1:33:26But you have an iPhone case on now about this you mentioned it on Twitter
1:33:34No, I did you you badger me on where's my phone I believe you said as Joe no, no, I changed my mark
1:33:43I never told you this
1:33:45This is serious
1:33:49So
1:33:53Yeah, basically after long consideration, the phone inside the case is ugly.
1:34:02It's so, like, I don't see the phone and I'm sad.
1:34:06And I'm resisting the temptation of holding my phone as Johnny I've intended.
1:34:15Basically my problem is that I'm too clumsy.
1:34:17I was dropping my iPhone 6 consistently almost every day.
1:34:23So in spite of my philosophical belief that phones, and especially iPhones, should be
1:34:34naked as men are when they come into this world.
1:34:41In spite of that, I had to put my phone in the case.
1:34:50Also like people, we wear clothes.
1:34:54You know?
1:34:55Yeah, that's that.
1:34:57Come on.
1:34:59Why do you need to be so...
1:35:02What's a good objective for you, Michael?
1:35:05Precise?
1:35:06Yeah, we'll go with that.
1:35:08That's a better one.
1:35:09Are you a precise person?
1:35:10Okay, yeah.
1:35:11trying to be polite, you know? So I put my phone in the case because otherwise I don't
1:35:16want to, you know, throw my money out of the window. It's like this thing, this 64 iPhone
1:35:236 cost me like 800 euros, probably more. Yes, that's like with the new dollar exchange rates.
1:35:32like yes that's like a trillion dollars.
1:35:35Benjamin's dollars and so I still I disagree with myself basically did the
1:35:44phone exactly in this thing I bought a silicon case an Apple silicon case
1:35:50because I like the Apple logo. What color? Black I think dark space gray
1:35:56whatever, black. And I don't like it but I had to. But my point is that people
1:36:07really use their imagination when they buy iPhone cases. And I saw people with
1:36:13iPhones inside like cases with all with whole like structures on them like
1:36:22little objects popping out of the case like bunny ears. Have you ever seen this?
1:36:30I've seen bunny ear iPhone cases a lot.
1:36:32Yes, and there's like cases with whole stuff going on, you know? There's like themed cases.
1:36:42You should get a color, you should get a color man, it improves your life.
1:36:46That's too crazy.
1:36:47I got a red one and I love it.
1:36:49No, I'm not a color guy.
1:36:54I like...
1:36:57What about an Apple Watch case?
1:36:59It kind of snaps on around.
1:37:01So basically, yes, Steven, I have my phone in the case and I feel like a terrible person.
1:37:07I feel terrible for this.
1:37:09Because my friends are like, "Oh, you put the other one in the case."
1:37:13Because I made fun of my friends, you know, for years.
1:37:17yeah yeah well the six is slippery it's just like a little stone I think also growing up
1:37:24I have become more it's no good inefficient at using my hands in general I'm so sorry
1:37:32I'm already here.
1:37:33That's really rough.
1:37:34You should go to the hospital.
1:37:35I mean, handling objects, okay?
1:37:36I think we're done.
1:37:37I think we're done.
1:37:38So yes, I bought a case.
1:37:54The case of the teachers.
1:37:56Yeah.
1:37:57Do we have anything more?
1:37:58Do we have... are we done?
1:38:00We are...
1:38:01Can I do one more Tim Cook quote?
1:38:06We'll skip the rest of it.
1:38:07It's fine.
1:38:08He talks about China and Apple Pay and lots of other things.
1:38:10But he says, "Five years ago, we were less than a billion dollars in revenue.
1:38:13In the last 12 months, we were at 38 billion."
1:38:17That's insane.
1:38:18Right?
1:38:19That's the whole thing.
1:38:20Isn't that the amount of money?
1:38:22Like it's just...
1:38:23You might as well just say, "And we made good Liberty jibbit."
1:38:27Like it doesn't even mean anything anymore.
1:38:29It's so much money.
1:38:31It's just an inconceivable amount of money.
1:38:34Imagine the iCloud storage they could give to people.
1:38:38Exactly.
1:38:39If you want to find the show notes for this week's episode, then you should point your
1:38:44web browser over to relay.fm/connected/26.
1:38:46If you want to find us on Twitter, there's a couple of ways you can do that.
1:38:53We have an account for the show, it's _connectedfm.
1:38:56Steven does a great job of keeping user engagement high with the ever increasing levels of customer
1:39:03sat via the social engagement platform.
1:39:06I can't even hear you anymore.
1:39:12We're also individually on Twitter.
1:39:13Steven is @ismh and Federico is @fotichiviti.
1:39:19CCI.
1:39:20I am @imike.
1:39:21I M Y K E. Federico writes the fantastic macstories.net.
1:39:26and Stephen at the equallyfantastic512pixels.net.
1:39:30We'll all be back next week for another episode
1:39:33of your favorite podcast about Apple on the planet.
1:39:37(both laughing)
1:39:42Thanks again to our sponsors this week,
1:39:44PDF Pen Pro 7, from Smile, Hover, and Automatic.
1:39:49But most of all, thank you for listening.
1:39:53Until then, say goodbye, gentlemen.
1:39:55Adios.
1:39:57That guy got crazy.