26: I Disagree with Myself


00:00:00   (upbeat music)

00:00:02   From Relay FM, it's connected, episode number 26.

00:00:11   Today's episode of connected is brought to you by

00:00:13   Hover, simplified domain management, automatic,

00:00:16   drive safer, drive smarter, and PDFPEM Pro 7.

00:00:20   Take control of PDFs on your Mac.

00:00:23   My name is Myke Hurley and I have the pleasure, as always,

00:00:26   of being joined by Mr. Federico Vittucci.

00:00:28   Hi, Federico.

00:00:30   - Buona sera, Myke.

00:00:31   - Hello.

00:00:32   - Hi.

00:00:33   - And howdy, Mr. Steven Hackett.

00:00:35   - Hey, boys.

00:00:37   - How you doing?

00:00:38   - I'm good.

00:00:39   How's Europe doing?

00:00:41   Europe's good?

00:00:42   - Yeah, it's dark, but it's fine.

00:00:44   - Yeah, it's fine.

00:00:45   - It's midnight.

00:00:46   So I guess it is.

00:00:47   - Steven, do you have snow in Tennessee?

00:00:50   - No.

00:00:53   Memphis maybe gets like an average of like

00:00:56   an inch and a half a year or something.

00:00:58   We get very little snow here.

00:00:59   But when we do, because we don't know what to deal with it,

00:01:02   everything shuts down and people freak out

00:01:05   because there's an inch of snow on the ground

00:01:07   and they can't go anywhere or drive.

00:01:09   We're really wimpy compared to our friends in the Northeast.

00:01:12   Somewhere Dan Morin is just like

00:01:13   smashing his phone against the wall listening to this.

00:01:15   (laughing)

00:01:18   So yeah.

00:01:19   - Michael, what about the UK?

00:01:22   Do you get snow in the UK?

00:01:23   - Very similar to Memphis.

00:01:26   Over the last few years we have had snow. We've not had any this year, so I expect that there probably won't be any now, because it usually has happened by now.

00:01:34   But when we do get snow, like snow that settles, like maybe a few inches or whatever, all of London closes. It's just a disaster.

00:01:43   Just closes.

00:01:45   There's always headlines in the news, like how many millions of pounds were lost in the economy, because basically every business stops working.

00:01:54   except relay. That's just 20 dollars though, so no big deal. Is the dollar that strong?

00:02:01   That doesn't feel right. I wish, I wish, I wish the dollar was that strong. It would work well for you.

00:02:08   Oh it would be great for me. I'm like, I'm now in that very small group of people in the UK

00:02:14   that wants the dollar to get stronger than the pound. There's not many of us, I am one of those

00:02:19   people. So you guys remember last week I told you about the gladiator movie and

00:02:25   and the guy that I that I knew was in the movie. He was the son. He was the son of the

00:02:32   of the gladiator of Maximus and so I told you that his brother now is in a band and so I was

00:02:40   just watching the band on television because there's a in Italy we have this sort of

00:02:45   national music contest which is called the festival of Sanremo. It's a town in the north

00:02:52   of Italy and so his brother was playing with his band on television. That was pretty cool. We used

00:02:59   to like when I was in high school and I was in my band, I'm sure Myke that you remember my band.

00:03:05   Yes, you shared a couple of songs once and so I used to play together with this guy. We would go

00:03:13   go to parties and we would like drink a little too much and then play guitar. So now the

00:03:20   guy's on television and I'm on relay talking to Myke and Steven. Quite different roads

00:03:26   we've taken.

00:03:27   Was that in the show last week or was that after the show? I can't remember.

00:03:31   I don't know, I think I was on the show. I asked you about the name of the Maximus.

00:03:36   Yeah, no I know we were talking about it as the three of us, I just can't remember if

00:03:40   it's in the episode.

00:03:42   I also, I also, I watched the Gladiator on TV.

00:03:46   Still a super great movie.

00:03:48   Good stuff.

00:03:49   Should we do some follow up?

00:03:52   The follow up is short this week.

00:03:53   I think that we broke everyone's hearts when we ended the old show notes, or browsers and

00:04:00   old show notes.

00:04:02   Good grief.

00:04:03   You know, the thing that we did, when people...

00:04:05   We finished show notes, if I remember.

00:04:07   Yeah, show notes are done.

00:04:09   And browsers don't exist anymore.

00:04:11   Although it was funny, even throughout last week, people who hadn't listened to the show

00:04:15   yet, we got some more emails and tweets like, "No, that's done."

00:04:23   But we do have a couple pieces of follow-up we want to talk about.

00:04:26   The first one's not really so much follow-up, but sort of like a shout-out.

00:04:30   Follow-out, remember?

00:04:31   This is how it works.

00:04:32   I'm not familiar with that show.

00:04:34   We follow-up on previous shows, we follow-out the things that are unrelated to other shows.

00:04:39   We're working with this, we've got to adopt this, this can be our thing.

00:04:43   This is new terminology?

00:04:45   You've not been listening to Upgrade, yes it is.

00:04:47   I told you that I don't listen to podcasts.

00:04:49   I thought you were going to say "I don't listen to Upgrade".

00:04:52   I can't!

00:04:53   Life in the heart.

00:04:54   I don't listen to podcasts much because I just don't have the time, too many podcasts.

00:04:59   I talk to you directly, I don't need to listen to you much.

00:05:02   Well okay then.

00:05:03   Sorry, I'm just behind, come on, give me a hard time for this.

00:05:07   No it's okay.

00:05:08   basically Jason coined a term for if you are talking about a podcast

00:05:13   that is not your podcast and you're either and you're like following up on

00:05:19   that show we call it follow out because it's out to another show it's got

00:05:24   nothing to do with us but we're talking about it anyway it has something to do

00:05:28   with you it does have something to do with me because yesterday you were on Mac break weekly episode 441

00:05:35   I was, imagine that.

00:05:37   It's crazy. I remember like, I don't know, like

00:05:40   2006, 2007, like early on, listening to MacBreak Weekly, and now you're on it, which is super cool.

00:05:47   It's a great episode. I finished it up this morning. Good.

00:05:50   Thank you.

00:05:51   Your face looks great on video, Myke.

00:05:55   Thank you.

00:05:56   Especially the beard looks amazing.

00:05:58   Oh, it was trimmed. I went and had it professionally trimmed. Not for that show, but I did have it trimmed.

00:06:04   Fancy, nice. I like it. I like you, Myke.

00:06:08   You look great on video.

00:06:12   Thank you, buddy.

00:06:13   Genuine opinion. I'm a video cast reviewer.

00:06:18   Recording video shows, I mean, I've done a couple now.

00:06:22   It's very different. It's very, very different.

00:06:27   There's so many things that you have to think about and do that you don't usually have to think about or do.

00:06:33   You know?

00:06:33   Yeah, 'cause you never know when the camera's

00:06:39   gonna be on you.

00:06:40   Like, it just is.

00:06:42   Like, all of a sudden, you can see yourself

00:06:46   'cause you see the feed.

00:06:47   Like, they give you back the feed in Skype.

00:06:49   But you're kind of like, you're never 100%.

00:06:54   Like, you know, you never know if you're gonna see it.

00:06:56   It's very weird.

00:06:57   Video is very weird.

00:06:58   It totally changes things as well.

00:07:00   Yeah, just very peculiar.

00:07:03   But it's enjoyable.

00:07:04   I like doing it when I do it, but I don't want to do it for any of my shows.

00:07:09   Right.

00:07:10   I mean, because normally you podcast, people might not know this, but you podcast in like

00:07:14   a speed skating suit.

00:07:16   I'm actually wearing an ATP t-shirt right now.

00:07:19   What?

00:07:20   Why?

00:07:21   Why would you?

00:07:22   I don't know.

00:07:23   So people should go check it out.

00:07:26   The link is in the show notes, which can be found in any modern browser at a URL that

00:07:32   that Myke will now describe.

00:07:34   - You can go to relay.fm/connected/26,

00:07:38   where you will find the link

00:07:39   for MacBreak Weekly episode 441, which is insane.

00:07:43   441.

00:07:45   - So crazy.

00:07:47   - So connected is my same age this week.

00:07:51   It's 26.

00:07:52   - Hooray!

00:07:53   - Yeah, in about 10 episodes,

00:07:55   it's gonna be your same age, Steven.

00:07:57   - I just turned 29 like two weeks ago.

00:08:01   I wanna check this now.

00:08:02   - We are basically almost two years in

00:08:04   and you're still telling this fake story

00:08:06   about your birthing.

00:08:07   - Episode one of MacBreak Weekly was on August 12th, 2006.

00:08:13   - That's before the iPhone.

00:08:15   Wow.

00:08:16   - That's, yeah.

00:08:17   - Yeah.

00:08:17   - That's when like iPod rumors were big.

00:08:19   - I remember listening to the show, like leading up to,

00:08:23   and then after like the iPhone was released,

00:08:25   that was when Merlin was on the show.

00:08:27   - Yeah.

00:08:29   It's crazy.

00:08:29   - Nice.

00:08:30   We talked a little bit last week about Microsoft and their new Outlook app, which of course

00:08:36   is actually another app that they acquired.

00:08:39   And there was rumor that broke right, I think it was right before we recorded that they

00:08:43   had purchased Sunrise and today Microsoft and the Sunrise development team confirmed

00:08:49   it.

00:08:50   So Federico, you seem excited about this.

00:08:54   I am because Microsoft is clearly late to mobile devices in general but they've been

00:09:02   trying to catch up.

00:09:05   They're doing Office on smartphones and tablets now, they have integrations with Dropbox,

00:09:12   they bought Accomplia and they turned it into a free Outlook app that works with all email

00:09:18   services except IMAP.

00:09:20   So they've been trying to have the same level of basic functionality of competitors in this

00:09:29   space.

00:09:30   And now Sunrise is a great great calendar app for multiple platforms.

00:09:35   That's really the point.

00:09:36   They're not trying to...

00:09:38   They're not buying Fantastical.

00:09:39   They're not trying to buy iOS only apps.

00:09:42   They want to buy cross-platform stuff because they need to do apps for iOS and Android,

00:09:50   so it makes sense.

00:09:52   Sunrise is a great calendar app.

00:09:54   It's got integrations with third-party services like Todoist, Evernote, Foursquare, Twitter,

00:10:01   Soundkick, Asana, if anybody uses that.

00:10:05   There's something they call the Sunrise Platform, where if you have an API, you can make sure

00:10:14   that your service shows up in Sunrise.

00:10:17   So they bought this calendar service that has vision for a calendar that shows you more

00:10:23   stuff than just calendar events.

00:10:27   And I think it's smart for Microsoft to buy...

00:10:31   Because clearly at this point they either come up with stuff of their own quickly or

00:10:38   they buy something that already exists and that it's pretty good.

00:10:43   And they're buying great apps.

00:10:45   So I think that's a...

00:10:46   At least they're spending their money right.

00:10:48   That's my argument.

00:10:49   So smart.

00:10:51   This is what Marissa Meyer did when she went to Yahoo.

00:10:57   - Exactly, yes. - If you don't spend

00:10:58   millions of dollars and hundreds and hundreds

00:11:00   and hundreds of man hours, thousands of man hours,

00:11:03   just buy, like you've got the money,

00:11:05   just buy small teams because you get good apps

00:11:09   and you get really smart people that made those apps

00:11:12   that can help drive the products.

00:11:13   Like, it's genius, it's genius.

00:11:16   It's not like an incredibly complex strategy,

00:11:18   but I think it's a very, very effective one.

00:11:21   'Cause if you buy apps like Accompli

00:11:23   that are already well respected

00:11:25   and don't do too much to them,

00:11:27   you then become Microsoft with a well-respected app,

00:11:30   like on iOS.

00:11:31   I think the problem they're actually starting to face now

00:11:35   is the apps on iPhone and Android

00:11:39   are probably better than the ones on Windows Phone.

00:11:42   Like the Outlook app on iPhone is probably better now

00:11:46   than the Outlook app on the Windows Phone.

00:11:49   - I'm not sure.

00:11:52   Is there going to be a Sunrise app for Windows Phone?

00:11:56   - Well, I don't think it will be called.

00:11:57   I think it will form part of Outlook, I suppose,

00:12:01   what they're planning on doing here, right?

00:12:02   I mean, have they said,

00:12:03   'cause they didn't keep a Compley a Compley, did they?

00:12:05   They rebranded it. - Nope, yes.

00:12:07   - So-- - And it became Outlook.

00:12:09   - So I don't know, they might call it Microsoft Calendar

00:12:11   or something like that, or Outlook Calendar,

00:12:13   'cause Outlook is a calendar and email app technically.

00:12:17   - That's my question also in the small link

00:12:22   that I put on Mac stories, is there going to be,

00:12:25   because there's a calendar view in Outlook,

00:12:27   in the Outlook app for iPhone and iPad.

00:12:30   So is there going to be some sort of integration

00:12:32   between Outlook and Sunrise?

00:12:34   It's going to be called Outlook calendar,

00:12:36   just calendar for Outlook.

00:12:39   - They may-- - The brand looks confusing.

00:12:42   I don't know.

00:12:42   - They may just no longer be a Sunrise app

00:12:45   and like the functionality might be rolled

00:12:48   into the Outlook app.

00:12:49   - That's my thought.

00:12:51   Probably, yeah.

00:12:53   - I mean, you can have a calendar app inside Outlook

00:12:56   and then another one, I don't know.

00:12:58   I think we're gonna see sunrise as we know it today

00:13:02   sort of go away and--

00:13:03   - Exist, exist. - So that's a filter back up.

00:13:05   - Yeah, interesting.

00:13:07   Maybe they just wanted really smart calendar people.

00:13:09   - Yeah.

00:13:12   I think it's good, I agree with you, Federico,

00:13:14   that I think Microsoft is doing some smart stuff,

00:13:17   but I want them to...

00:13:21   I want to see how this plays out long term.

00:13:23   They're doing some good stuff right now on iOS, but when Google first started with the

00:13:29   Gmail app and the Maps app and stuff, they weren't super great and now they're actually

00:13:33   for the most part pretty good.

00:13:34   It took them a little time to get there.

00:13:37   So I'm curious if Microsoft will take that same path where you could be using a lot of

00:13:43   Microsoft apps and services on iOS and still feel like a first class citizen.

00:13:48   I hope they do.

00:13:49   I think it's good to have options and I think they, uh,

00:13:51   like we talked about last week,

00:13:52   they just need to really sort of recapture the consumer base that they've lost

00:13:57   in the mobile space. So yeah.

00:14:01   Yeah. What I'm interested in seeing is like if they go the Google route,

00:14:05   like you now feel like you're using good iOS apps,

00:14:09   but not, but iOS apps that don't feel like iOS apps. Do you know what I mean?

00:14:14   Like when Google first started out with their iOS apps,

00:14:17   like they felt like what the iOS apps at the time,

00:14:21   but now they do feel and look more like Android apps on iOS.

00:14:26   Even though, you know, they've got that,

00:14:27   they've got a totally different design language.

00:14:29   And I wonder if we'd see Microsoft going down that route

00:14:32   because Microsoft visually for their own platforms

00:14:34   have a very different design.

00:14:36   And I wonder if like they wanna get in now,

00:14:39   but like has to be moved down the road,

00:14:41   I wonder if it would change.

00:14:42   I don't think that's a bad thing

00:14:43   'cause I actually really like the material design

00:14:45   and I like the way that they've brought that over to iOS, except the background on Chrome

00:14:51   for iOS, the weird background, I don't know why it's there, I know why it's there, it

00:14:55   looks weird.

00:14:56   But I like the way that Maps looks and stuff like that, so I'm interested to see if Microsoft

00:15:01   keep their own visual identity and move that into these apps or if they're happy to keep

00:15:05   them separate.

00:15:07   I wonder about the endgame here.

00:15:11   Because Google and iOS, they can make apps and even if you don't buy an Android device,

00:15:17   Google is fine because they're just "ok, you use my apps, and I get your data, I collect

00:15:22   your personal information, and I make money anyway".

00:15:26   But Microsoft, what do they want to do?

00:15:29   Because they have fine iOS apps at this point.

00:15:34   And I'm not buying Windows phone devices, and by "me" I refer to the user in general.

00:15:41   I don't want to buy Windows phone devices.

00:15:43   I like Microsoft's apps on iOS,

00:15:47   but am I supposed to pay for Microsoft services

00:15:51   at this point?

00:15:52   Is this how they want to use the apps for to make me pay?

00:15:56   Or do they want to collect personal information about me?

00:15:59   Because information doesn't seem to be

00:16:01   Microsoft's business in the way that it is for Google.

00:16:06   So is this a way to make me pay for Office,

00:16:09   to make me pay for OneDrive?

00:16:10   - Okay.

00:16:11   - I think it's either to have you personally

00:16:16   want to pay for Office or for you to continue to be happy

00:16:20   using Microsoft products in your workplace.

00:16:23   So like, basically Microsoft either need to sell it to you

00:16:28   or they need to sell it to your employer.

00:16:29   And if, again, we go down the bring your own device route

00:16:32   because people wanna use their own devices

00:16:35   because they're not happy with the other software

00:16:36   and services that they're using, maybe Microsoft products.

00:16:39   So if they can try and change that, and they can make you happy to use Microsoft products,

00:16:44   either you buy Word for yourself, or you're happy to use it at work.

00:16:48   That's the way I see it, or what I think is there.

00:16:51   Because they are saying now, they are using the term "Windows as a service".

00:16:56   That's what they see themselves moving towards, like they are a service provider.

00:17:01   Do you think Microsoft can make money from personal users who don't need apps in the

00:17:07   workplaces just work for, you know, they just use apps personally?

00:17:11   I think so.

00:17:12   They don't.

00:17:13   I think so.

00:17:14   I don't think any of their current apps are the apps that would do that.

00:17:16   I think they need to think about some different things.

00:17:18   But if Microsoft can continue to sell to the workplace, that's all they need to do to make

00:17:23   a ton of money.

00:17:24   Because every business in the world, right?

00:17:27   They pretty much every single business should or will come into a point in their time where

00:17:33   they will need Office.

00:17:35   I had to buy Office within like two weeks of starting Relay because we received a contract

00:17:40   in the Microsoft Office document file, like in Word.

00:17:44   So it's like, well, there's nothing I can do about it if I need to keep the formatting

00:17:49   of this document.

00:17:50   So I bought Office.

00:17:52   Oh yeah, for sure.

00:17:53   I mean, I'm using Outlook every day.

00:17:56   I keep Office on my iPad because I need Excel for how it creates charts and graphs.

00:18:02   I'm just wondering, I'm not paying Microsoft any money. I don't think they're collecting...

00:18:06   I mean, they are collecting data about me, but they don't show me ads or whatever. I

00:18:11   don't use Bing, I don't use Outlook websites or that kind of stuff. I'm just wondering

00:18:17   if they... I mean, because the app strategy needs to change, I guess, at some point. Because

00:18:24   I'm... again, they have Dropbox features, so I'm not supposed to pay for OneDrive, because

00:18:30   I can just use Dropbox. So I wonder if maybe down the road they will add more paid features

00:18:37   to Outlook to entice me to pay more as a personal user instead of as a business owner or as

00:18:45   a team manager.

00:18:46   Yeah, I agree. Or there will be something where it will be like, this is great, but

00:18:51   if you use OneDrive rather than Dropbox, you'll get X, Y, and Z, which is more awesome. And

00:18:56   then you'll be like, this makes sense.

00:18:58   Yeah, yeah. Anyway, we got lots to cover today. That was just... I don't know where that topic

00:19:03   came from. Let's take a quick break. Thank our first sponsor this week. I want to take a moment

00:19:08   to thank our friends over at Automattic. Automattic is a connected car adapter.

00:19:13   It plugs into your car's diagnostic port, the one that your mechanic uses. Every single car

00:19:17   since '96 has one of these. And then what it does, Automattic will pair to their free iPhone app,

00:19:25   and it connects your car to the internet.

00:19:29   The advantages of this is stuff like,

00:19:30   I've spoke about this before,

00:19:31   you can have all of your trips logged for you,

00:19:34   that can help you out with things like gas mileage

00:19:36   and things like that.

00:19:37   It can help you locate your car,

00:19:39   it can help you do things like

00:19:40   if your check engine light comes on,

00:19:41   it can explain to you in plain English what's going on,

00:19:44   it can allow you to also clear those lights as well,

00:19:47   right from your phone.

00:19:48   But today, I wanna focus on another feature of automatic

00:19:51   that's super important.

00:19:52   I spoke with the guys at automatic yesterday,

00:19:54   And they said, "We have this thing, we have a story.

00:19:58   Would you like to share it with your listeners?"

00:20:00   And they told me the story, and I do.

00:20:02   So for the sake of privacy,

00:20:04   we're gonna call this guy John.

00:20:06   John is an automatic user.

00:20:08   And last October, this is a true story,

00:20:10   he was driving his Honda Accord on a rural country road,

00:20:13   and he had to swerve to avoid it hitting a deer.

00:20:16   John was maybe going a little bit too fast

00:20:19   when he made the maneuver,

00:20:20   and he had to overcorrect as he was swerving.

00:20:22   It then caused his car to spin out and flip multiple times,

00:20:25   eventually coming to a stop upside down

00:20:28   as the car landed on its roof.

00:20:30   His automatic, which he obviously had plugged in

00:20:32   as being user detected what had occurred

00:20:34   and immediately contacted the emergency services.

00:20:37   They were able to dispatch teams

00:20:39   to his exact location within a minute

00:20:41   as the automatic could tell the emergency services

00:20:44   exactly where the car was located.

00:20:46   Luckily, John managed to avoid any serious injury.

00:20:49   He was just scraped and bruised and a bit bashed up,

00:20:52   but his car was completely totaled.

00:20:54   And as you can imagine, John continues

00:20:55   to be a loyal, automatic customer today with his new car.

00:20:59   So I wanted to tell you this story

00:21:00   to kind of highlight something

00:21:02   that I've kind of mentioned in passing in previous weeks,

00:21:05   is that it can contact emergency services for you.

00:21:08   But for $99, if it can do that,

00:21:13   I feel like you should kind of just have one.

00:21:16   Like, if this is a situation that you can be helped in,

00:21:21   Like if you flip over multiple times and land on the roof of your car, you know, obviously

00:21:26   I don't want that to happen to anyone but for $99

00:21:30   I think that this is maybe something you should think about if you haven't it seems like it could get you out of a pretty sticky

00:21:35   Situation like this is the power of having your car connected to the internet

00:21:39   Like I just thought it was a fantastic story and I wanted to share it with you

00:21:43   You can order an automatic right now for just 99.95

00:21:47   There are no subscription fees or any other hidden charges and we have a special deal for you

00:21:51   If you go to automatic comm slash connected, you can get 20% off an automatic bringing the total down to just $80

00:21:58   It ships in two business days for free and as a 45 day return policy if you're not happy, so

00:22:03   Go to automatic comm slash connected. Give it a shot. If you don't like it, you can return it, but I think you're gonna love it

00:22:10   Thank you so much to automatic for sponsoring this show and all the relay FM

00:22:16   All right, topic zero this week is a computer I have sitting next to me that is not, as

00:22:27   you might mock me for endlessly, a some sort of old power Mac with weird ports on the back.

00:22:36   It's not that.

00:22:37   Okay.

00:22:38   Oh, we could do that.

00:22:39   We could do like old Mac of the week.

00:22:41   No one would listen.

00:22:42   No, no, no, no, no.

00:22:43   Please go ahead.

00:22:44   Please, please no. Please, please don't talk about that. Whatever you do, please don't do this stuff.

00:22:56   Maybe like a month ago we talked about the Chromebook a little bit and we set a

00:23:00   challenge out that I would use a Chromebook for, there was some

00:23:06   disagreement but it's sort of roughly like internet work stuff, so relay stuff

00:23:11   I've done some 512 stuff on it. So I kind of had a few thoughts about the Chromebook in general

00:23:17   and about the one I have here and then the chat room who's listening live has asked some questions

00:23:23   that I'm going to answer and then very sort of threateningly in the show notes someone has

00:23:29   written "Federico has questions" so I'm a little afraid. I wrote that myself. I talked about myself

00:23:35   in third person in the channels.

00:23:38   - Yeah, well you have to 'cause you don't know who said it.

00:23:40   - Just says I have questions.

00:23:43   I like that one.

00:23:43   - So the, so I have been using the Acer C720

00:23:50   which is like 200 bucks on Amazon Prime.

00:23:58   Pretty hard to argue with that.

00:23:59   A little 11.6 inch computer.

00:24:01   So kind of like, you know, MacBook Air sized.

00:24:04   It's been really interesting for some reasons that I didn't really foresee.

00:24:13   So the general kind of, if you're not familiar, a Chromebook is basically a laptop with like

00:24:19   the Chrome browser attached to it.

00:24:23   It's really about it.

00:24:24   It has local storage as you can download things to it and you can, it does a lot of cool stuff

00:24:29   with Google Drive, just keep that offline if your internet connection goes out and that

00:24:33   sort of thing. But more or less it is a browser hooked up to a keyboard. Which is

00:24:39   a little weird.

00:24:40   You know we've spoken a lot in the past about sort of our love of like native

00:24:47   applications and I definitely would much prefer to use something like mail.app

00:24:52   over gmail on the web and especially if you have like multiple accounts and

00:24:57   everything doing that all in the browser is strange. But in saying that it's

00:25:02   important like I am NOT an average user by any stretch of the imagination. I

00:25:06   think most people I see with even with Macs like they're opening up their

00:25:10   MacBook Air and they're going to Chrome and they're doing everything in Chrome

00:25:13   and for that sort of user a Chromebook actually is a really interesting product

00:25:17   because it it kind of gets to the heart of what how a lot of people are using

00:25:24   their computers these days you know Chrome the browser is very OS like for

00:25:29   a lot of people because they're doing everything in it and so it's not a huge

00:25:32   jump to see you know to see how you could live with something like this if

00:25:39   you're that sort of user. There are a couple things that I that I've missed

00:25:45   the two big ones are text expander and 1Password that two utilities that I rely

00:25:52   on on my Mac to make me work faster. Text expander especially like when I'm

00:25:57   writing have I have a lot of like markdown stuff and things I can do very

00:26:01   quickly and I have to do all that manually without it. It's not that it's a

00:26:05   deal breaker but it's it slows me down. I have an incredible amount of muscle

00:26:10   memory devoted to TextExpander. Oh me too. It's only when I notice I quit the app

00:26:14   accidentally or something and I'm like I typed something like it's broken like

00:26:18   some I'd like some all I know is something's broken like I can't

00:26:22   immediately work out what it is it's like oh hmm but yeah yeah. OnePassword

00:26:29   does have I think one password with Dropbox and they do have something

00:26:32   called one password anywhere there's a link to the show notes where you can

00:26:36   actually get to your one password you log into Dropbox and you go to this this

00:26:39   URL. I have Dropbox with two-factor authentication turned on so I feel a

00:26:45   little bit better about about having that enabled so I can like open one

00:26:49   password in a tab in Chrome and copy passwords out not great not nearly as

00:26:52   integrated as it is on the Mac or even on Windows and that's one password is an

00:26:58   example like sometimes it's a little weird that the Chrome extension doesn't

00:27:02   work but because this syncs with Chrome on my computer it the plugin is there so

00:27:07   occasionally I get like a warning saying the plugin is not working but I can't

00:27:10   disable it because then it would disable it on my Mac as well because Chrome

00:27:13   syncs all that stuff so there's a little like weird edge cases but all in all

00:27:18   things things work pretty well so one password anyway you're accessing it in

00:27:22   like via a web view you're not yeah okay so you can still get to the stuff

00:27:28   but it's just no way near as useful. Right so the Acer C720 it's

00:27:36   super fast the thing the thing boots up in like four seconds I mean it's it's

00:27:40   really unbelievable the keyboard is not bad for an 11 inch machine it's it's not

00:27:44   as good as an Apple keyboard the trackpad is not as good as an Apple

00:27:47   trackpad but it's for it's the best like $200 keyboard and trackpad I've ever

00:27:51   used. Battery life is just incredible I think because it is basically just a web

00:27:58   browser I don't think that the OS is well power hungry but I mean routinely

00:28:03   over eight hours of battery life on it easily if not more more so than that

00:28:08   than I read in the in the reviews. It's still a $200 computer it still feels

00:28:13   like a $200 computer in some ways but it's it's not as bad as you would think

00:28:17   It's not like using like some old cruddy netbook

00:28:20   It's definitely a step up from that experience that you may have had

00:28:23   You know four or five six years ago when netbooks were kind of a thing

00:28:26   So I have chatroom questions you guys want me just to go through these yeah, I don't want to like monologue but no

00:28:35   No, I only pulled I pulled out five or six so the first one is did you install crouton?

00:28:39   So crouton is a sort of I guess it's a package and a couple links in the show notes

00:28:46   where the c720 as with a lot of other Chromebooks you can install Ubuntu on

00:28:51   them pretty easily there's even some packages where you can install like

00:28:55   Chrome OS and Linux like you can dual boot or that you can even run at the

00:28:59   same time and like flip between them so you can be in Chrome OS and slide over

00:29:02   to Linux and do something. I have that set up it's it's a little nuts I haven't

00:29:09   been in Ubuntu a lot but if you need something for instance like Sublime Text

00:29:14   Like there's not a native text editor for Chrome OS and there's some markdown stuff on the web

00:29:20   But it's sort of janky. So if you need like a couple native apps you can

00:29:23   You can go through these insane steps and and run Linux on this thing

00:29:28   See what else our web apps as responsive as native apps

00:29:34   I mean, it's very similar to how it is on the Mac. The answer is no I

00:29:40   Will say that Chrome itself feels very fast on the machine

00:29:43   But you're still working in web apps and I think web apps for the foreseeable future will be slower than native

00:29:49   applications

00:29:52   Have you experienced any bugs with audio or video tearing like that?

00:29:55   YouTube and stuff works fine. I haven't had any issues with lag on the machine like even on

00:30:01   Like 1080p YouTube stuff it's been it's been rock-solid no problems there at all

00:30:08   Can you do audio video stuff? Can you podcast on a machine like this? Not that I've discovered.

00:30:14   Again, you're basically using a browser and so you know you don't have the sort of flexibility

00:30:23   you have with sort of a air quotes you know full operating system. You could probably do it on the

00:30:28   Linux side but again like out of the box I don't think you could podcast on a Chromebook. That

00:30:35   could change quite soon. I know there's like the weird web thing that someone's

00:30:39   working on. There's a few of them. Yeah. And it's possible like the way the

00:30:45   Chrome would still enable that I think even on a Chromebook you

00:30:49   would still be able to do it so that there is a potential that stuff like

00:30:52   that could change in the near future I think. Yeah so you know maybe at this

00:30:59   point though I don't think you could because Skype is stuck in a Chrome tab.

00:31:04   Can you write for 512 pixels? This doesn't connect via Skype though. Yeah no I know I know but

00:31:09   currently the answer I think is no. Can you write articles for 512 pixels? Yes

00:31:17   I've done several in Google Docs but it is you know not as good as something

00:31:26   like Byword because it doesn't do any of the markdown stuff natively I don't

00:31:29   any of the text expander stuff to like bring in a link and wrap it correctly

00:31:34   and do that sort of thing so I can it's just a little bit slower and then

00:31:39   someone asked what the touchscreen is like this is not the touchscreen model

00:31:42   there is one that is a touchscreen but I don't like in using like it's like

00:31:49   again it's using Chrome like Chrome on the Mac Chrome on this thing look the

00:31:53   same like I don't think a touchscreen would be super helpful a lot of the UI

00:31:58   is small, at least on this the screen resolution, so I feel like it could be a

00:32:02   little frustrating to deal with the touchscreen, but I haven't had

00:32:06   first-hand experience with it. So now we come to the part that Federico has

00:32:13   questions. So I want to know does this get updates when the real Chrome, I guess,

00:32:23   for computers is updated. Does it get the same update cycle? Did you see updates for

00:32:31   Chrome OS? Yes, I've seen a couple updates. I've had this thing maybe three or four weeks.

00:32:37   I've seen a couple updates. It basically just gives you a little alert in the bottom and

00:32:41   you click on it and it reboots. The Chrome version is a little bit different than what's

00:32:46   on the Mac. So it seems like to be maybe a different branch, but it's definitely updated

00:32:52   frequently seems to be at least.

00:32:56   And what's cool about it is you can actually, there's actually a website, I don't have it

00:33:00   handy, but you can download a recovery image and put it on a USB key.

00:33:04   So you can like wipe this thing and reformat it and all just like you can kind of a normal

00:33:12   computer.

00:33:13   So in general I want to know, do you think that most people would like a computer like

00:33:22   this instead of a PC or a Mac or an iPad for others?

00:33:28   Would you recommend this computer to other people?

00:33:32   I think if budget is your primary concern I would say yes.

00:33:36   I think if you've got a thousand dollars to spend I would say buy a MacBook Air because

00:33:40   you get all the benefits of everything you can do in Chrome plus all the native applications

00:33:46   and sort of a, you know, mature operating system.

00:33:49   You know, there's been, there's been articles recently about Chromebooks and education really

00:33:54   taking off and maybe even at the iPad's expense.

00:33:57   I think that is definitely a place where Chromebook can really shine because they're, they're

00:34:01   cheap.

00:34:02   If it gets smashed, it's not a huge deal.

00:34:05   Everything's web based.

00:34:06   So if it, if it gets wiped or you get a different one, you just log into it and all your stuff's

00:34:10   So I think if you're if you're on a budget or if you're in that sort of

00:34:14   environment I think it's a at the very least a really good alternative to an

00:34:19   iPad if you don't want a tablet. I would not say that it is better for the work

00:34:23   that I do than an iPad I don't think it is but I could see for for a segment of

00:34:29   the population maybe even a big segment at the very least it's a viable

00:34:32   contender. A weird contender but again I don't maybe I'm maybe different from you

00:34:39   guys in this but I don't do a lot of work in the browser like even like

00:34:43   posting to 512 which is on Squarespace I'll write and buy word and do

00:34:48   everything and then just copy it into Squarespace. I don't do a lot of work in a

00:34:51   browser tab most days and so for me that's been weird but I think I'm in the

00:34:56   minority there. I could do an incredible amount of what I do with a Chromebook

00:35:02   like obviously except for the recording which is obviously extremely important

00:35:08   So much of what I do is in Google Docs and I do it in the browser.

00:35:15   So I would be pretty okay I think.

00:35:18   I don't want to do that, but I could.

00:35:22   Well there's a question I guess.

00:35:24   Could you survive or would you like working like that?

00:35:29   Because those are two different things.

00:35:31   Yes you could survive.

00:35:32   They're two massively different things, yes I agree.

00:35:35   You could survive.

00:35:36   I mean, I could work for Mac stories.

00:35:39   I could, I don't know, use the email in the browser and then write in some markdown web

00:35:45   app and then, you know, use other, use Slack in the browser.

00:35:51   It would be pretty limiting.

00:35:52   I wouldn't like or love working like that, I think.

00:35:57   I don't know.

00:35:59   There's no iMessage for the web, which is kind of a problem.

00:36:04   Yeah.

00:36:05   I could survive. Say that my MacBook Pro was in the shop for a week, I could get by on this.

00:36:09   I wouldn't love it. I wouldn't reach for this if my MacBook Pro or my iPad were available.

00:36:15   But for getting by, I could definitely do it. Wouldn't it be my first choice though,

00:36:24   by any stretch?

00:36:25   Any blasting for any like parting thoughts on it, Stephen?

00:36:32   I mean I think I think my overall thought is that I think Chrome OS and

00:36:39   maybe even the Acer C720 in particular but but Chromebooks I think are a lot

00:36:44   more I can see how they're more attractive than I initially thought like

00:36:50   I can see why so many people like use them especially in education but I could

00:36:59   see how these things could take off in a way that I didn't understand before.

00:37:04   And again it comes back to a lot of people just use their browser and this isn't a bad

00:37:09   experience for that at all.

00:37:12   So, I'm not switching to it, but I'm more impressed than I thought I would be.

00:37:18   And I will admit I went into it pretty jaded.

00:37:22   It's been a pretty enlightening little experiment.

00:37:28   Do you think you're impressed because it proves that some apps can work only as browser versions

00:37:35   or are you impressed because it's genuinely a good computer?

00:37:39   Like I want to understand this the like do you get the feeling that yeah it's good for

00:37:46   a browser or like yeah it's a good computer it's a good OS.

00:37:53   I still struggle to understand Chrome OS concept.

00:37:56   Why does it need to prove a point?

00:37:59   You know, it sort of sounds like…

00:38:01   I don't think it's about proving a point.

00:38:02   I think it's that a lot of people don't need all the overhead that we deal with every

00:38:09   day and that for a segment, you know, probably a growing part of the consumer population,

00:38:18   this meets their needs.

00:38:20   say that it really competes with OS X or even Windows, I don't think it does.

00:38:24   I mean side-by-side spec sheets are hilarious, but I think there is a certain type of person

00:38:30   who maybe is maybe not too computer savvy or super budget constricted or just doesn't

00:38:39   need the weight of something like Mac OS X or Windows.

00:38:46   And for that sort of person I think it, I think if you're in that category I think it

00:38:50   is a good computer. Is it a good computer compared to my $2,000 MacBook Pro? No. But

00:38:56   that doesn't mean it can't meet the needs of a segment of the population just because

00:38:59   I don't fit into it very cleanly. Does that make sense? I don't know if I actually answered

00:39:04   your question. I think it just depends on your needs and I think if you're on the low

00:39:09   end of the market, I think it's a really... If I was to choose between this, a $200 Chromebook

00:39:14   in a $400 Windows laptop, if that was sort of my two decisions, a Mac wasn't in the equation

00:39:20   and an iPad was in the equation.

00:39:22   I think if you're in that sort of decision-making process, and a lot of people are, then I think

00:39:28   that this is a really good alternative.

00:39:31   I think that's great.

00:39:32   I think there needs to be choice and not just at the high end where we live, but in all

00:39:39   brackets of the market, I think there should be choice.

00:39:41   And I think Google's done that.

00:39:43   Did you use Google Now on it?

00:39:46   I did not.

00:39:47   Well, so let me take that back.

00:39:49   So that is sort of built into the menu bar, but since I don't use Gmail day to day, some

00:39:56   of that stuff is not as helpful for me because I use iCloud for my personal stuff, which

00:40:00   has been a little limiting, I think, in my experimentation.

00:40:04   But it knows about basketball games and stuff.

00:40:07   It kind of pops up, and that's helpful, but I don't think I get the full benefit of it

00:40:11   because I'm not in the Google ecosystem with my personal data day to day.

00:40:18   This week's episode of Connected is also brought to you by our friends over at Hover.

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00:40:35   They sent me an email and I said, "Yes, I would like to renew that."

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00:40:45   Okay, great. I've been getting a lot of renewal notices from Hover recently,

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00:40:54   domains on Hover every week on Bionic. So I've been getting like, oh man, all these things.

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00:43:23   Thank you so much to Hover for sponsoring this week's show.

00:43:27   Oh that's great. So again we haven't really talked about photo management

00:43:33   before but we're going to try it out. So we record this show on Wednesdays as you

00:43:40   know. Last week on Thursday photos the the new iPhoto aperture replacement for

00:43:48   OS X shipped to developers so this is part of 10.10.3 which is not public

00:43:55   yet to developers only to members of the Yosemite beta testing Appleseed program

00:44:01   that sort of thing. Coming later this year it'll be in public beta I think for

00:44:06   a while anyways it's here you can play with it if you're in one of those

00:44:10   if you're in one of those programs and I think at least a couple of us have

00:44:16   played with it a little bit and it's it's here and it's shiny and...

00:44:22   Couple of us means you and Myke, usually.

00:44:25   No, I haven't. I haven't touched it.

00:44:27   I thought... I've played with it.

00:44:29   I haven't. I have my iCAD for library just on iOS.

00:44:34   Oh!

00:44:35   Because I didn't want to download the beta because then what if it breaks Skype and Myke is angry and...

00:44:42   Oh yeah, I just went for it.

00:44:44   I had a bootable backup first. Don't worry, I did it quickly.

00:44:48   Yeah, that's too much.

00:44:50   Um, so it's here, I guess, I mean very quickly there's a link on Apple's website.

00:44:56   So this is really funny, this came right on the heels of people like freaking out that

00:44:59   Apple had removed it from its website.

00:45:01   Clearly it was in preparation for this page going up.

00:45:05   And in my like brief testing at least, it basically does what it's supposed to do.

00:45:12   So you, it works much better than iPhoto.

00:45:16   Guys it's crazy fast.

00:45:18   I don't know how many my MacBook Pro is in my bag, but I've seen some

00:45:22   like the verge had

00:45:25   preview along with a couple of other sites and they had some videos and they were showing like how quickly

00:45:29   It scrolls and I was I was presently

00:45:32   Pleasantly surprised to see that. Yeah, because I photo just really fell down once you got a really big library and

00:45:40   so it

00:45:42   Photos can kind of work in one of two modes more or less

00:45:46   You can run it just locally with your files or you can turn on

00:45:51   iCloud photos and at that point it sinks your photos up to iCloud and you can view them all on your

00:45:58   devices no matter where you are. So I have this turned on on my iPad and

00:46:02   You know my out my test albums are all synced to my iPad

00:46:06   not as quickly as I thought they would be but I think

00:46:09   You know, I did this on like day one or day two and I think they're still sort of ramping up

00:46:15   but

00:46:16   The photos are all there if I edit them in one place the edits show up elsewhere

00:46:20   So if I take a picture of

00:46:22   Federico and Myke and I make it black and white on my iPad when I come back to my computer that picture is in black

00:46:26   and white so it's

00:46:28   It's much more seamless than it is currently where you're you take a photo or you know

00:46:34   Like we all three use Dropbox if you take those

00:46:37   Photos and sync them over to your device

00:46:40   they're sort of view only and now you can edit them and it's more of a you

00:46:49   know Steve Jobs said the truth is in the cloud that sort of thought that all of

00:46:52   your devices are an equal playing field I think that's great if you're if you're

00:46:55   heavy on iOS but I'm a little I'm a little worried guys all right tell me so

00:47:04   that if you look at iTunes match which is sort of similar to this right where

00:47:09   you have local files and your files in the cloud and you can sync them and you

00:47:14   can remove your local files but they're still in the cloud and you can redownload

00:47:16   them. You know iTunes match is pretty similar to this but iTunes match and

00:47:20   iTunes for all of its problems I think does a pretty decent job at explaining

00:47:26   to the user where their file is so if it's in iCloud or an iTunes match and

00:47:32   not local you get a little cloud icon you can download them you can remove

00:47:35   them it's very clear if you delete an image say hey do you want to take this

00:47:38   off iCloud as well and at this point photos doesn't have much of that and

00:47:43   there's a lot of language in the settings in photo of like store

00:47:48   everything on your Mac which is what I think most people will should do at

00:47:52   least and then it's hey I want to preserve you know keep I forget the

00:48:01   settings so something along the lines of like keep an eye on my local disk space

00:48:04   You know and and photos will then like delete things to keep your disc free

00:48:08   But it's really confusing as to what it's actually doing. There's some you guys spoke about this on upgrade

00:48:14   so I'm not gonna rehash everything y'all said but

00:48:16   There's some sort of local cache and and I just worried that at some point

00:48:21   it's you sort of lose track where your photo actually is and

00:48:24   You know we spoke a month ago about how my iTunes match situation

00:48:31   Exploded after I moved my iTunes library and took forever to straighten that out and I actually ran to an album today. That's got screwy

00:48:37   Metadata has like random other tracks in it for some reason

00:48:40   Why do you have to know what the photo is the photo is in iCloud

00:48:46   Yeah, but is what if what if it goes wrong?

00:48:49   Or what if a credit card doesn't renew your storage because Apple's charging you for it and your what do that happens then?

00:48:54   There's an opportunity they're going to send you an email I guess

00:48:59   But how many people have their you know like

00:49:02   We've I mean, I'm sure one of us has done at some point

00:49:05   I know I've done it where you have a recurring bill and your debit card changes and because it was stolen by Home Depot

00:49:09   And then all of a sudden you're not paying your recurring thing like there is the opportunity

00:49:14   I think for photos to fall through the cracks and the system like this

00:49:18   It's even even possible between photo stream and your local albums

00:49:22   It's not real clear when something is locally sorted out of the photo stream

00:49:27   And I think that it's still a little too complicated

00:49:30   If if I James match explodes and I suddenly have Mumford and Sons inner leave in a Kanye album like that's super annoying

00:49:38   But I can deal with it because it's just music right I can go redownload it

00:49:41   I can sort it out, but if it if it

00:49:44   Takes photos of my kids and all of a sudden. I'm missing some of them because I thought they were

00:49:52   on iCloud so I deleted them off my local machine and really I deleted both copies

00:49:57   Like that's not good. And I think Apple needs to really make this

00:50:02   Like fail-safe like you cannot like there's got to be big alarms going off before you completely nuke something

00:50:09   From existence and and currently that's not true. And this is the first build that there's lots of lots of things

00:50:16   I see if you try to delete something like it just deletes it like you don't you don't know

00:50:22   like necessarily where you're deleting it from and or it doesn't kind of say

00:50:26   like you're deleting this from the cloud now so it's gone forever like there is

00:50:30   no backup yeah this photo like understand that like or what happens

00:50:35   you know like when what what if you have your photo library on two Macs and one

00:50:41   Mac is offline for two weeks and like and they fall out of sync can it get it

00:50:45   back updated correctly even iTunes match doesn't do that perfectly every time and

00:50:51   And so there's a lot of these weird edge cases when you have data locally and you have data

00:50:54   in the cloud and there's some layer in between connecting them.

00:50:59   Like it's got to be flawless.

00:51:04   Photos cannot drop a file, it can't duplicate a file.

00:51:08   It's got to be perfect and I don't quite trust iCloud to do that yet.

00:51:15   The thing that I don't like, is kind of what you touched on,

00:51:18   is the idea of ambiguous deletion.

00:51:23   And I get from a UI and a user experience perspective

00:51:28   why that just works metaphor, that idea.

00:51:32   So you've got 40 gigabytes of hard drive space.

00:51:35   Oh, and now you've only got 20,

00:51:38   so we're gonna take away some of your photos for you.

00:51:40   It's like, I don't know how,

00:51:44   Because that's so hidden, as in how does it make those decisions,

00:51:49   there's just something about that that puts me on edge.

00:51:51   And yes, in theory, of course, they're in iCloud,

00:51:54   and it shouldn't be a problem.

00:51:55   I'm sorry, guys, I still don't understand what's the problem here,

00:51:59   because the photos are in iCloud.

00:52:01   But the problem is, the problem is,

00:52:04   what if something goes wrong?

00:52:06   Like, let's just say, and it will happen to people,

00:52:10   like, that something's going to go wrong, right?

00:52:12   'cause you're not gonna have a 100% success rate.

00:52:15   Like at some point, someone's gonna have a problem

00:52:18   where they're gonna lose some files that are in the cloud.

00:52:21   And if you keep them on a machine

00:52:23   and you think that they might be there,

00:52:25   but they're not because the Photos app.

00:52:28   So let's say that you, Federico Vatici,

00:52:31   you have 50 gigabytes of photos, that's all you have, right?

00:52:35   - Okay.

00:52:36   - And you have a 100 gigabyte hard drive.

00:52:39   Now, you've selected for Apple to make sure that you've got the right space.

00:52:44   And let's say that like...

00:52:45   Whoa, whoa, what I've selected?

00:52:47   Right, so there's a setting in the Photos app.

00:52:50   Okay, so there's stuff I don't understand.

00:52:52   There's a setting?

00:52:53   Right, so there's a setting in the Photos app that says, effectively...

00:52:59   On the Mac?

00:53:00   On the Mac.

00:53:01   Okay.

00:53:02   Remove files from this machine if I run low on hard drive space.

00:53:06   Okay, so it removes them from your machine.

00:53:09   IOS has the same setting actually.

00:53:11   - Optimized storage, yeah.

00:53:13   - So let's say--

00:53:14   - The files don't go away.

00:53:16   It's like when you tap a photo,

00:53:18   it downloads the full resolution.

00:53:20   So if you want to save storage,

00:53:21   they remove the full resolution

00:53:23   and you still see the thumbnail,

00:53:25   then you can tap it and you re-download it.

00:53:27   - But my point is like,

00:53:28   let's say that you have files removed from your machine,

00:53:31   you didn't necessarily know that they were gone

00:53:33   because you still see the thumbnails.

00:53:35   And then something goes wrong in the cloud, right?

00:53:37   Something.

00:53:38   'cause it's gonna happen to some people.

00:53:41   And then you try and get those files back

00:53:43   and they're not there anymore.

00:53:45   I just have a concern about it 'cause it's like,

00:53:48   I personally don't like the idea of it just,

00:53:51   and I probably will never turn this setting on

00:53:54   for it to just, or remove things

00:53:57   and put things back and take them away.

00:53:59   I will maybe have it like one machine

00:54:02   that always keeps that setting on

00:54:04   and it's just always got everything.

00:54:06   But my concern is for like the one family or like the one person who has an 11 inch

00:54:12   MacBook Air with a small hard drive and they select that setting and then something goes

00:54:16   wrong because the difference between like...

00:54:18   I think you're overthinking it, honestly.

00:54:20   Well no.

00:54:21   It's just a setting to remove the cache.

00:54:24   But what happens if the originals...

00:54:27   But then the originals aren't there then, are they?

00:54:29   No, because why are you thinking about originals?

00:54:32   This is not like the finder.

00:54:34   You take a picture on your phone and it goes in iCloud and then it goes to other devices.

00:54:39   Okay, but let's talk about the pictures that you take on your DSLR, you put them into the

00:54:45   photos app.

00:54:46   Oh, but that's what all people do.

00:54:47   Come on.

00:54:48   Okay, you take a picture on your phone.

00:54:50   You take a picture on your phone of an important family occasion, right?

00:54:53   And you put it on your Mac and then you think that it's going to be there and then a problem

00:54:57   happens in iCloud and the picture's not in iCloud anymore and now the picture's no longer

00:55:01   on your Mac.

00:55:02   longer have that photo? I got lost there. Why would I take a picture on my phone and

00:55:10   then connect it to a computer? Alright, so you take a picture on your phone. The point

00:55:15   is that you take a picture on your phone. I don't know why you can't understand this.

00:55:18   Maybe I'm stupid. I take a picture, because I've been using iCard for library for months,

00:55:24   so I take a picture on my phone and that's it. I'm done. The picture goes into iCloud.

00:55:30   when it works. It's just my... I have a concern just about... Forget it. We're not

00:55:34   gonna get through this. Why are you thinking so much about this? Because

00:55:38   here's the thing. So here's the bottom line here. That you are

00:55:43   trusting Apple, you're trusting iCloud with things that cannot be replaced.

00:55:48   Right? Like... And so it has to work perfectly. And so far in very limited

00:55:55   testing it has but let's just be real here Apple is not the best cloud service

00:56:00   company in the world and so there's an opportunity if you don't have the

00:56:04   originals on your disk and the originals are only in iCloud and you stop paying

00:56:11   or you somehow end up in a situation where you're in between and you don't

00:56:17   have the originals and something happens you could be caught without your

00:56:21   original images and that is something that is, it might not be a big deal to some

00:56:27   people but is a huge deal to me and a huge deal to a lot of people. And all I'm

00:56:33   saying is that Apple has to prove to me that they have their word that I'm not

00:56:39   going to say on the air together about this file management stuff and the

00:56:45   app is great I actually really like the app but I'm not sold that I'm going to

00:56:50   ever choose the setting for to optimize the space. I think I'm always going to

00:56:56   have them on my local drive because that I could put my hands on it I know where

00:57:01   they're I know that they are there and I just I worry that Apple's language

00:57:09   around it isn't clear enough that's all I'm saying. I think if they can I think

00:57:13   I think they will I think they will improve this where it makes more sense

00:57:16   to a user when they sit down knowing where their things are.

00:57:20   Because if you don't know where your things are and you make a bad decision, you could

00:57:24   lose your originals.

00:57:27   And that's bad.

00:57:29   That's all we're saying.

00:57:30   I think how you end up there, there's a bunch of different ways.

00:57:33   But ultimately, they've got to make it crystal clear so you can understand what's going on.

00:57:40   So anyways, all of that aside...

00:57:42   Guys, I'm sorry, I don't understand.

00:57:44   I don't mean to sound like I don't believe you because I believe you have a problem.

00:57:50   It's just I don't think I have the same problem.

00:57:52   So it's difficult for me to understand like this talk about the originals.

00:57:57   Like I don't follow what the problem is probably because I don't use a Mac.

00:58:03   I think the main problem is my notion of file is different.

00:58:08   You don't have original.

00:58:09   I never see that.

00:58:10   That's why I never see the actual files.

00:58:13   I don't understand what's going on.

00:58:15   What is an original?

00:58:16   You gave up the originals a long time ago, my friend.

00:58:18   What is an original?

00:58:19   I mean, I just take a picture and it goes to an icon.

00:58:25   Oh, very cavatice.

00:58:26   While Stephen was talking, so, okay, real talk.

00:58:29   While Stephen was talking, I opened the photos app on my phone and I went to two years ago,

00:58:37   I tapped the little thumbnail and there's a spinner in the bottom right

00:58:42   and it loads for like three seconds and then I see the original. Is that the original?

00:58:49   Well, that's the original.

00:58:50   Well, yeah, but we're talking about like a file that you can see.

00:58:56   Like a JPEG.

00:58:57   Yes.

00:58:58   Could you kind of give that up and if Apple were going to like delete the master copy from your machine

00:59:05   So you see the file on the Mac? The actual JPEG file of the photo?

00:59:13   I think you still can. You can still inspect the package and open it up, right?

00:59:18   Yeah.

00:59:19   Oh, okay. So why didn't you guys explain this to me?

00:59:22   Well, me and Steven understood it.

00:59:25   Well, I didn't. Clearly, I didn't.

00:59:28   Yeah.

00:59:29   So, there's, sort of in conjunction with this, there's been a lot of conversation around

00:59:37   the fact that this is not a professional application.

00:59:39   Now, it supports raw images, you can import and sync raw images, but you don't have a

00:59:44   lot of the raw editing controls that you get in something like Lightroom or Bridge or Photoshop.

00:59:50   What is a raw?

00:59:51   I always wonder, what is a raw?

00:59:53   It's like a package of files?

00:59:58   is a it is an image it's so raw is actually a term for a lot of different

01:00:04   formats different camera vendors use different formats but basically it's an

01:00:07   image that you have a lot more data to it it's not a compress it's not a

01:00:12   compressed image like a JPEG is and so you have a lot more editing capability

01:00:16   they're a lot bigger a lot higher quality usually an aperture and

01:00:22   Lightroom can deal with raw files directly but after is going away and

01:00:26   there's this article over at iMore that is basically saying you know photos is a

01:00:31   sort of consumer maybe prosumer app but it's not it's not a Lightroom

01:00:37   competitor the controls the fine grained controls you have in something like

01:00:42   Lightroom you don't exist here and I agree with that but what I think is

01:00:48   interesting is that there's sort of this idea of you know you have iMovie and you

01:00:56   have Final Cut you have GarageBand and you have Logic. Is something like

01:01:01   Aperture going to make a comeback? Is there room is there a reason for Apple to

01:01:06   do professional photos app at some point since they have one they haven't really

01:01:14   cared about it in a long time like Aperture is pretty always actually for a

01:01:18   long time Aperture's been in pretty sorry state. So I don't know, do you guys think Apple

01:01:23   cares about the professional photographer anymore or do you think

01:01:28   that they're just gonna go middle of the road and and move on? I think care is a

01:01:33   is a is a too harsh a word. That's a loaded word. But it is the word that everybody uses. I think

01:01:41   that it is it doesn't need to be high in Apple's priorities anymore to provide

01:01:47   and develop Pro applications because there are lots, well not lots, but there

01:01:54   are competitors, right? I think that it is potentially, I'm sorry Aperture users, a

01:02:00   waste of Apple's resources to be competing with Adobe to create something

01:02:06   like Aperture. And I genuinely feel like that my beloved logic will go that

01:02:13   way one day. I think that Apple's time as being the vendor of the pro app, it

01:02:19   doesn't need to exist anymore because the pro app vendors, they all have, they're

01:02:26   all third-party versions, they're all third-party competitors.

01:02:30   Apple don't need to try and lock in the creative professional like they

01:02:35   used to because that's kind of, they're just there now, you don't need to

01:02:39   have that advantage. I think they tried to, and succeeded for many years,

01:02:43   to get the illustrators and the photographers and the audio

01:02:48   professionals and stuff by creating their own apps. I think that Apple's

01:02:53   business is so focused in other markets and other areas now that it's continuing to

01:02:59   devote so much time and resource to expensive apps when they don't even

01:03:03   charge really expensive prices for them anymore. I think it's kind of a fool's

01:03:07   there and for them and I think they're realizing that which is why they're

01:03:10   starting to phase out or significantly re-architect these applications like

01:03:15   Final Cut for example how that changed if they even keep that going but they

01:03:20   changed it significantly they did a similar kind of thing for Logic it had a

01:03:25   massive overhaul and and I think that stuff like Aperture is gonna go away

01:03:30   eventually I think logic is gonna go away and and they're just gonna start

01:03:34   focusing on making their consumer apps a good place, like the prosumer, try and make them

01:03:44   fit in the middle somewhere, but trying to service that market completely, I don't think

01:03:48   they need to consider dealing with anymore.

01:03:51   Yeah, I mean, I'm really divided on it.

01:03:55   I think that they could come back and do something professional.

01:04:00   Even with the iMac videos, photographers, yay!

01:04:07   But I don't know, I think if something does come, I think they're going to have photos

01:04:14   fully rounded out and then move upstream.

01:04:19   But I don't think they necessarily have to.

01:04:22   I think mostly because professional photographers don't really...

01:04:28   this sort of idea of like I want to sync all my files around all my devices like

01:04:31   that doesn't really appeal to a lot of professional photographers at least that I

01:04:35   know that they need the editing tools and they already have their own crazy

01:04:38   storage system and photos is very much about the storage system so maybe it is

01:04:43   a sort of a different like philosophical issue they've got to deal with as well

01:04:49   but I don't know I thought it was interesting I think that it's fine this

01:04:52   is consumer oriented I think it needs to be but we'll see where they go in the

01:04:57   future I guess. I just don't have thoughts. Well I mean you're again it's

01:05:03   it's totally different for you I mean yeah do you want to see like Apple start

01:05:08   to create professional level applications for iOS? Yeah of course I

01:05:15   mean if people ask for it if there's a market for professional users and

01:05:22   photography I guess. But I mean there's always the third-party ecosystem.

01:05:28   Yeah that's kind of what I wonder like is third parties better to service that

01:05:34   market than Apple? I believe yes.

01:05:36   Probably. As long as Apple makes solid APIs that's a bigger concern for me. As long as they allow other people to go where they don't want to go I think it's better

01:05:48   because they seem, especially in the past few years, they seem that they've moved away

01:05:53   from the pro market to let more like normals, normal people do basic stuff in a decent way

01:06:04   rather than have no solution for the stupid people like me and have Aperture or iPhoto

01:06:12   which was one professional and the other two complex.

01:06:16   Now they have the Photos app, which is for everybody.

01:06:20   And so if they don't want to spend resources and time

01:06:23   to do a new aperture, maybe they can just do the APIs

01:06:27   and let Adobe do Lightroom and that kind of stuff.

01:06:30   I think it's better.

01:06:32   So Apple doesn't do half-baked solutions everywhere.

01:06:36   They do one simple solution for everybody

01:06:39   and they let other people,

01:06:40   That's the thing about the App Store, that lets people do stuff.

01:06:44   Yeah, I think it's fundamentally a better way for Apple to do business, is to focus themselves that way.

01:06:50   They cannot cover every possible market, so...

01:06:54   So just do as much as you can for the best of your abilities, rather than kind of like half-arsing both.

01:07:01   Yeah. From my perspective it seems better, I think.

01:07:05   Arguably that's what they were doing with photos anyway.

01:07:07   I don't know how good Aperture was, but I know a lot of people that I know and trust

01:07:12   their opinion in those things were using Lightroom.

01:07:16   And I could never go near iPhoto.

01:07:19   Yeah I tried to use iPhoto on the Mac before.

01:07:22   My girlfriend still uses iPhoto on the Mac.

01:07:24   I don't know how she does it.

01:07:26   I tried to use iPhoto on iOS two years ago when it came out.

01:07:31   It was so confusing.

01:07:32   There were different interfaces all over the place.

01:07:37   And it was not just about this Qmorphic stuff.

01:07:40   It was really difficult to use and to understand and to browse.

01:07:44   It was super awkward.

01:07:46   And now the Photos app, it's just...

01:07:47   I mean, there's a few things I don't like about the Photos app.

01:07:51   Like the way that it doesn't let you see photos on a map.

01:07:56   I know you can enter the details for like a specific section of what is called the moment

01:08:03   in the view, in the Photos view.

01:08:05   can view a moment on a map, but you cannot view every single photo on a map, like you

01:08:11   can do in day one.

01:08:13   You can see all your photos from all your years in your collection on a map.

01:08:18   There's a few things I don't like, but overall it's much better, and for me it's

01:08:22   been super... like, it's been, and I mean this in a good way, it's been really nothing.

01:08:30   I don't have to think about it.

01:08:31   It's just there.

01:08:32   Like it's supposed to do, it's supposed to be there and it does the stuff for me and

01:08:37   I just take a picture and the picture is everywhere and then I tap it and it's what it's supposed

01:08:42   to be.

01:08:43   And I'm paying a euro a month so I guess that's a good price.

01:08:48   It should be free.

01:08:49   It's kind of awkward that it's not free.

01:08:51   It should be free I think, 20 gigs at least.

01:08:55   But whatever, you know?

01:08:56   Again, I think over the years I kind of become stupid in a way because I used to do the finder,

01:09:06   jpegs and I mean at one point I had a PHP script like some sort of bizarre marko armand.

01:09:15   A PHP script to move my photos around and now I'm just letting iCloud sync my pictures

01:09:24   And I know that many people have horror stories about Apple photo apps deleting pictures.

01:09:34   There's my friend Nate on Twitter.

01:09:37   He had his iPhoto rivalry wiped clean by iPhoto a couple of years ago.

01:09:42   That was scary.

01:09:43   That's fine.

01:09:44   But now...

01:09:45   Yeah.

01:09:46   Now...

01:09:47   That's why you need the originals.

01:09:49   Yes.

01:09:50   I'm just saying now, iCloud photo library has been there and it works. So I'm happy

01:09:58   so far. Hopefully they won't screw it up. They won't do anything stupid to iCloud. I

01:10:06   don't know. To answer your question, Myke, I think it's a better solution to let most

01:10:11   people have something that works rather than different segments with something they're

01:10:17   not really happy with. Yeah and to maybe round this out the upside of all this is

01:10:26   that you if you use iCloud stuff you do have a backup of your images which is

01:10:34   more than what most people have currently I think so there are there is

01:10:39   like there's a lot of upside to this I don't mean to throw cold water over

01:10:43   the whole thing I just need Apple to prove that they can be trusted with it

01:10:48   but I think for a lot of people it is going to give them another layer of

01:10:53   protection they don't have currently. I don't know how many people I've seen

01:10:57   over the years doing tech support who lose documents and the first thing they

01:11:02   ask is about, they lose data and the first thing they ask about is photos when a

01:11:07   hard drive crashes or something like that so I think there's a lot of upside

01:11:11   to this I do wish that it was not that the storage was free you do have to pay

01:11:20   for iCloud storage still it's much more reasonable than it used to be and you

01:11:24   can pay for a lot more than you used to be able to but it's still something that

01:11:29   I think that Apple should I think Apple should should throw this in for people

01:11:34   especially if they want this to take off if it's if it's behind a paid thing

01:11:41   You know, if you're paying 10 bucks a month or 500 gigs of storage, it's going to turn

01:11:46   a lot of people off.

01:11:47   And so I would like to see them address that, but I don't really have any anticipation that

01:11:52   they actually will.

01:11:53   I still subscribe.

01:11:54   You know, actually I have a thought, if you guys don't mind.

01:11:59   There is one thing I'm not happy with about iCloud is that they don't explain iCloud to

01:12:05   people.

01:12:07   Like I know that there's the website and they have sections in the settings, but like every

01:12:13   time my friends and my family, they come to me and they ask me what is iCloud?

01:12:19   Am I supposed to pay because it says that I'm over the 5GB?

01:12:25   And I think, especially for photos, they should like have some sort of explanatory video on

01:12:32   iPhones and iPads, and with simple words they tell you, you enable this iCloud photo library

01:12:41   and all your photos go into iCloud and you don't need to delete photos from your device

01:12:49   anymore to make space for something else. Because all the time I see, for instance,

01:12:55   I'm going to a concert, right?

01:12:58   And my friend says, "Oh, I cannot shoot a video because people record videos of live

01:13:03   performances.

01:13:05   I cannot shoot video because I need to delete some photos."

01:13:09   And so they go through the camera roll and maybe like they do this sort of weird magic

01:13:15   tricks.

01:13:17   They send pictures over WhatsApp to somebody else as a backup.

01:13:22   That's crazy.

01:13:23   They send the picture and they delete the picture so they can have more space for the

01:13:27   video.

01:13:28   So they need some sort of simple, human, non-geeky explanation that says "You enable this feature,

01:13:37   you give us one dollar every month and we store your pictures".

01:13:42   And it needs to be an explanation that my mom doesn't need to go to the Apple website,

01:13:47   My father doesn't need to go to Mac stories and read crazy guy talking about iCloud.

01:13:53   He needs to be there and need to explain to people what it is because I think right now

01:13:58   Apple always has done this sort of explanations of iCloud and people still don't get it.

01:14:05   So I think there needs to be a simple way, maybe make it like the trackpad videos they

01:14:11   have in OS X to explain the gestures.

01:14:14   They actually show you a hand doing the gestures.

01:14:18   So show me somebody with iCloud.

01:14:21   Show me Tim Cook walking into a server room or whatever, indicating like pointing his

01:14:26   finger to a server rack or something.

01:14:30   Show me a video of what is iCloud.

01:14:34   And I think that sounds so stupid and maybe kind of gross to show me a video, but I think

01:14:40   most people still don't get iCloud.

01:14:43   They won't get iCloud photo library, especially after all the confusion of photo stream, whatever.

01:14:50   Just make it simple.

01:14:52   Make it simple.

01:14:53   Explain it even simpler, if it makes sense.

01:14:56   Yeah, I don't disagree at all.

01:14:58   I think it's overwhelming to approach it because it is so many things, right?

01:15:03   Like iCloud is a collection of, I don't even know how many, 10 features at this point or

01:15:08   something.

01:15:09   So I think you're absolutely right.

01:15:10   a lot of room for improvement on that front.

01:15:15   That WhatsApp thing, like, I can totally see that happening and it's like, the things people

01:15:20   do with computers is terrifying.

01:15:24   Yes.

01:15:25   Yeah, something like, I think it was last year, I went to this concert with a group

01:15:35   of friends and they started sending pictures as attachments over email and then they deleted

01:15:43   the pictures from the folder library because they wanted to take a video.

01:15:48   And then they said the video will go to Facebook.

01:15:51   So when the video is on Facebook, then I delete the video from…

01:15:55   Oh my god.

01:15:57   No, please stop.

01:16:00   But yeah, they do crazy things.

01:16:03   - All right, we still have one more thing we wanna get to,

01:16:05   but before we do that,

01:16:06   let me thank our final sponsor this week.

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01:18:29   Thank you so much to Smile for their support of this episode.

01:18:36   So Tim Cook, a guy you might have heard of, spoke I guess yesterday at a Goldman Sachs

01:18:43   conference and iMore has a link to basically they I guess they listened and

01:18:51   what's the what is the word I'm looking for transcribed transcribed Tim Cook's

01:18:56   comments and it's super long and there's some interesting things in here and I

01:19:00   thought maybe we could just talk about some points that jumped out at us before

01:19:04   we do that I want to do that I want to I want to mention how this happened for me

01:19:09   this morning so it's the I knew that this call was happening so I've seen

01:19:13   some of the headlines and then I kind of I open my iPhone this morning and you'd

01:19:17   sent me a link and was like read this for the show and I'm like okay no

01:19:20   worries I open it up and I start reading like and I'm scrolling through, scrolling

01:19:24   through a couple of paragraphs through and I look at the scroll bar I'm like oh

01:19:27   my lord how long is this like yeah 6,000 words or something like it's a full

01:19:33   transcription of like a 40 minute talk so then I started looking around online

01:19:37   for the audio version right because I was like there must be audio of this and

01:19:42   I don't want to read this.

01:19:44   So I'm looking around online,

01:19:46   and I could only find the live stream audio

01:19:51   you know, on Apple's website.

01:19:53   So I was listening to that,

01:19:53   that was 45 minutes that run for.

01:19:55   I was like, oh, it's probably faster for me to read it.

01:19:58   So then I thought, oh, maybe somebody's huffed off there.

01:20:00   So then I could put it into Overcast

01:20:03   and do it at double speed.

01:20:04   No, they hadn't.

01:20:05   So I then remembered friend of the show,

01:20:08   Mr. Matthew Bischoff's app, Velocity,

01:20:10   which is a speed reading app.

01:20:11   So I put it in velocity and I had it done in 15 minutes.

01:20:15   - And quite a workflow you got there.

01:20:17   - It's a whole thing that I had.

01:20:19   And I felt happier about myself because I found a way to,

01:20:22   that was a life hack.

01:20:24   - Do you wanna write for backstory?

01:20:27   - If you wanna just transcribe what I just said,

01:20:30   then you can have it.

01:20:31   I'm not writing it.

01:20:32   (laughing)

01:20:33   - Okay.

01:20:34   - So he, we can just kind of blast through this.

01:20:40   He starts off with sort of a--

01:20:43   so Apple's coming off their strongest quarter ever,

01:20:45   which we really didn't talk about.

01:20:46   It kind of fell in between shows for us a little bit.

01:20:48   But basically, Apple sold all the things

01:20:50   and made all the money.

01:20:52   Yeah, and during this talk as well,

01:20:55   Apple reached their highest market cap of all time, right?

01:20:58   Yeah, which is just nuts.

01:21:01   So he's talking about hardware, he's talking about software.

01:21:03   But what I really came away from this beginning part

01:21:05   is he talks about services a lot.

01:21:06   He talks about HealthKit and HomeKit and CarPlay.

01:21:09   And really, I think only the first one of those is doing anything.

01:21:12   Like, I haven't heard much about HomeKit.

01:21:15   You know, CarPlay is like a thing, but maybe not very good.

01:21:18   Uh, it's surprising that he pushed them so hard.

01:21:21   Um, you know, I did find myself kind of thinking, Oh yeah,

01:21:26   they did do all that stuff.

01:21:28   Like I did.

01:21:31   Like I just totally forgotten about these things and was like, yeah, okay.

01:21:34   It's in theory, very ambitious.

01:21:38   It just hasn't... just not much has been done with it yet, you know?

01:21:42   It's just because you don't have a car.

01:21:44   Or a home.

01:21:46   [laughter]

01:21:47   Or a health.

01:21:49   Oh yeah, I don't have no health.

01:21:51   What if your car is your home?

01:21:53   Then I guess home, health kit and carplay work well.

01:21:57   Two birds with one stone, Steve.

01:22:01   So is it that this stuff is just gonna be on a long cycle

01:22:05   and it's gonna be a little while before you really see like HomeKit take off?

01:22:09   Is it that HealthKit was so bad at launch that developers are afraid of it and haven't integrated with it yet? Is it that

01:22:17   CarPlay is only reserved in new cars and why people don't buy brand new cars? Like I don't know like

01:22:24   Clearly this stuff is not making a big impact now

01:22:27   But maybe it will in the future or maybe it will just fizzle out like I don't know iDVD themes like I don't know

01:22:33   It's it's just weird that he pushed it as hard as he did. Are you are you comparing people's health to?

01:22:39   IDVD themes that was a time people cared about I DVD themes, you know, and now it's not

01:22:46   Poor I do

01:22:50   It's funny he picked I DVD

01:22:54   Is this like a thing that like was a thing and now it's not right yeah

01:23:02   Listening to... Oh, listening. Reading Tim say this stuff, like...

01:23:06   It did make me think about HealthKit as like really something that will come into its own with the Apple Watch.

01:23:14   And that's when it will start to become sensible.

01:23:17   Like he mentioned one thing that I don't know if I knew this or I'd forgotten about this.

01:23:23   Like about how the Apple Watch will tap you on the wrist if you're sitting down for too long.

01:23:28   And it's like, I really want that.

01:23:30   Yes.

01:23:31   that's something I need and I like that and it did but you know that tactic

01:23:36   feedback thing like I'm really interested in that because the word like

01:23:41   it taps you I mean okay like I don't think that we can fully understand how

01:23:46   that feels until that happens you know because it's like it's like Tim Cook is

01:23:51   holding your hand I mean just work which is exactly what I want okay we're all

01:23:56   good here so carry on Steven. I think it's just like a just tap your wrist um

01:24:04   so he goes from that talks about IBM which is boring talks about the

01:24:09   environment and this they make an announcement with their first solar

01:24:13   partnership do you guys see this they're building a a new solar farm that's like

01:24:18   1300 acres. Rockets. It will be quite a story. Maybe. Just rockets. It's to power the

01:24:29   the Apple Campus 2 which is really cool and some other things. It reminded me of

01:24:38   the when was it a couple years ago when someone was like badgering Tim Cook in a

01:24:43   meeting about like that the environmental stuff wasn't a good use of

01:24:48   money and he was like if you all you care about the RIs get out of the stock

01:24:52   right like this so far to me like if you zoom way out on Apple and Tim Cook's

01:24:57   leadership the two things that stand out are the watch and his relentless push

01:25:04   for... I would also throw diversity into the mix there as well. I think it's great. I think that's been

01:25:12   another key thing. Yes, the intersection of diversity. He actually told the people in

01:25:19   the audience that they needed to have more women, which was kind of awesome. He threw

01:25:23   a sick burn in for no reason, I loved it. He was just like, yeah, there's a lot of guys

01:25:28   here. Yeah, he's like on the stage, he's like, oh, by the way, you know, you guys, Goldman

01:25:34   Sachs. These are the same. Do you guys ever seen the Twitter account GS Elevator, the

01:25:41   Goldman Sachs elevator. It's like tweets for people from the Goldman Sachs. It's

01:25:46   awful awful things they say in the elevator of Goldman Sachs office,

01:25:53   whatever, building, I don't know. It's a funny Twitter account. I'll put it in the

01:25:58   show notes. GS elevator, yeah. Looking. GS elevator. So it talks a little bit, it

01:26:06   countermutes from that talks about the watch and basically says that it's sort

01:26:13   of like next in line with iPod iPhone iPad levels of importance which I don't

01:26:21   know if we talked about it so sometimes I get confused as we said something or I

01:26:25   hear it on other podcasts so forgive me but they're very confident about the

01:26:29   watch and like even in this thing saying that it's gonna be like as impactful as

01:26:34   of the devices is pretty bold.

01:26:36   - Yeah, with MG.

01:26:38   - Was it, I black out during many podcasts.

01:26:42   Do you guys see that?

01:26:45   Like, do you think that like in 10 years,

01:26:47   the watch is gonna make this world different

01:26:49   than the iPod and iPhone did?

01:26:50   - I can't see it right now.

01:26:51   I think they're being too confident.

01:26:52   Like the confidence says something which might be good

01:26:55   that they believe in it.

01:26:57   I don't see it like being,

01:26:59   like you know how they, during the watch announcement,

01:27:04   they show, you know, they show like we had these three breakthrough things, you know,

01:27:08   like, and they show like the Mac and the iPod and the iPhone.

01:27:13   I don't think in 20 years the watch is going to be one of those, like, I just don't see it.

01:27:18   I think the work they're doing on the watch rather than the watch itself as a device,

01:27:25   as a name, will make an impact in history.

01:27:29   That's a good point, yeah.

01:27:31   I think the work on wearable and like... because you're going to end up with a computer on

01:27:36   your skin anyway.

01:27:38   I think that's a fact personally.

01:27:40   So I think the work will be remembered more than the brand.

01:27:45   Which is probably not how it will be for the Mac or the iPhone.

01:27:49   Like we'll remember those products but maybe like we'll... basically they'll say like you

01:27:55   know if you remember we started this with a watch.

01:27:58   But even to an extent, you're already doing the same with the iPod and the iPhone, because

01:28:05   part of the... the iPhone comes from the iPod, you know?

01:28:09   You know what I'm trying to say?

01:28:10   That basically...

01:28:11   Yeah, I mean everything's on a line.

01:28:13   Maybe there will be the Apple Watch, and then after the Apple Watch, like a big wearable

01:28:17   thing, and then, like, the Apple Watch will be remembered, but there will be the next

01:28:23   thing based on the Apple Watch.

01:28:25   be like the iPhone because the iPod surely changed history and music but the iPhone really

01:28:32   changed society you know that's I think I'll go down in history I don't know

01:28:43   I think that's fair I think what the watch lacks those other things have is a unique

01:28:50   interface like the watch is still touch right like you have the digital crown but it's only

01:28:56   used in certain situations where the mouse the click wheel and using your finger were

01:29:03   so defining to those original products I just don't see the watch having that same sort

01:29:10   of weight historically but we're on the side of it so ask me again when I'm you know 10

01:29:16   15 years down the road. You will be like 70. At least 85.

01:29:22   You'll still be able to walk us 15 years? Just wondering.

01:29:27   Maybe. Yeah, just turn the oxygen down lower so you don't hear it.

01:29:31   He has this quote after this, and he says, "Tim's been with Apple since like '97."

01:29:46   He came to Apple after Steve came back, right after Steve came back.

01:29:49   And he says, "I'm not a historian, so I can't tell you about the beginning of time,

01:29:52   but I really don't think Apple was ever a hardware company."

01:29:55   Basically saying that Apple, he views Apple as a software company first, which is something

01:30:00   Steve Jobs said several times.

01:30:02   And it's something that I think even in talking with photos just a couple of minutes ago,

01:30:08   I do think that Apple views itself as a software company first and that the hardware is just

01:30:14   a means to an end that the iPhone is what it is so iOS can be what it is.

01:30:21   For a software company they really treat their hardware well.

01:30:25   It's not like that they're just kind of like, "We just make a phone."

01:30:30   Like, "Look at the diamond cut chamfer edge."

01:30:34   And I'm not saying it's not a criticism.

01:30:37   It's just interesting.

01:30:38   Like a company...

01:30:39   Because you know, arguably at the moment they're doing hardware better than software.

01:30:47   People don't complain about the way that their iPhones are put together as much as they complain

01:30:51   about the way that their phones crash.

01:30:58   Yeah, and I think maybe a more appropriate way of saying it now is that Apple is a user

01:31:04   experience company that it is even like again with photos Apple is trying to

01:31:12   blur the lines between software and service that you don't really know where

01:31:16   the application ends and the cloud begins and while I might have issues

01:31:19   with that at times it's hard to argue that it is a bad thing in the grand

01:31:26   scheme of things to to merge services and software and I think Apple very

01:31:31   clearly their stuff works better when you have iCloud turned on or you know

01:31:36   same way that Android works a lot better if you have a Google account so that's a

01:31:39   trend overall in the industry but I think Apple is out there in front. It

01:31:45   jumped out at me in reading the transcript because it's it's something

01:31:49   that that Jobs said it's old Alan Kay quote that if you want to be serious

01:31:53   about or if you want to write your own software you have to be serious about

01:31:56   hardware. Tim should have called you for the historian. I think it's interesting. I

01:32:00   I think it's easier to test hardware than it is to put together good software.

01:32:06   Oh for sure. I mean I was kind of poking fun, but like it's just an interesting thing that I find that yes, I agree

01:32:14   they're a software company, but like

01:32:16   the hardware is not... it's not like as a software company

01:32:21   they don't care about hardware, you know, because they clearly do because they go to much larger lengths than anybody else.

01:32:28   That was kind of my point and then I was kind of poking fun.

01:32:31   I think people would be really really concerned if Apple's hardware starting to be of lesser quality,

01:32:40   you know, like if iPhones started... not the stupid gates that there are every year.

01:32:46   Like if iPhones started to like to, you know, to have like cracked screens for no reasons or

01:32:53   like

01:32:55   Yeah, but for real like like it would be that would be a problem because people just expect the Apple

01:33:02   hardware to be

01:33:05   To be I guess that it's not a something you need to worry about

01:33:09   Even if people even if people buy a lot of iPhone cases

01:33:14   That's another another thing. I noticed all like I bought a case myself eventually

01:33:23   People really protect their Apple hardware, I think

01:33:26   But you have an iPhone case on now about this you mentioned it on Twitter

01:33:34   No, I did you you badger me on where's my phone I believe you said as Joe no, no, I changed my mark

01:33:43   I never told you this

01:33:45   This is serious

01:33:49   So

01:33:53   Yeah, basically after long consideration, the phone inside the case is ugly.

01:34:02   It's so, like, I don't see the phone and I'm sad.

01:34:06   And I'm resisting the temptation of holding my phone as Johnny I've intended.

01:34:15   Basically my problem is that I'm too clumsy.

01:34:17   I was dropping my iPhone 6 consistently almost every day.

01:34:23   So in spite of my philosophical belief that phones, and especially iPhones, should be

01:34:34   naked as men are when they come into this world.

01:34:41   In spite of that, I had to put my phone in the case.

01:34:50   Also like people, we wear clothes.

01:34:54   You know?

01:34:55   Yeah, that's that.

01:34:57   Come on.

01:34:59   Why do you need to be so...

01:35:02   What's a good objective for you, Michael?

01:35:05   Precise?

01:35:06   Yeah, we'll go with that.

01:35:08   That's a better one.

01:35:09   Are you a precise person?

01:35:10   Okay, yeah.

01:35:11   trying to be polite, you know? So I put my phone in the case because otherwise I don't

01:35:16   want to, you know, throw my money out of the window. It's like this thing, this 64 iPhone

01:35:23   6 cost me like 800 euros, probably more. Yes, that's like with the new dollar exchange rates.

01:35:32   like yes that's like a trillion dollars.

01:35:35   Benjamin's dollars and so I still I disagree with myself basically did the

01:35:44   phone exactly in this thing I bought a silicon case an Apple silicon case

01:35:50   because I like the Apple logo. What color? Black I think dark space gray

01:35:56   whatever, black. And I don't like it but I had to. But my point is that people

01:36:07   really use their imagination when they buy iPhone cases. And I saw people with

01:36:13   iPhones inside like cases with all with whole like structures on them like

01:36:22   little objects popping out of the case like bunny ears. Have you ever seen this?

01:36:30   I've seen bunny ear iPhone cases a lot.

01:36:32   Yes, and there's like cases with whole stuff going on, you know? There's like themed cases.

01:36:42   You should get a color, you should get a color man, it improves your life.

01:36:46   That's too crazy.

01:36:47   I got a red one and I love it.

01:36:49   No, I'm not a color guy.

01:36:54   I like...

01:36:57   What about an Apple Watch case?

01:36:59   It kind of snaps on around.

01:37:01   So basically, yes, Steven, I have my phone in the case and I feel like a terrible person.

01:37:07   I feel terrible for this.

01:37:09   Because my friends are like, "Oh, you put the other one in the case."

01:37:13   Because I made fun of my friends, you know, for years.

01:37:17   yeah yeah well the six is slippery it's just like a little stone I think also growing up

01:37:24   I have become more it's no good inefficient at using my hands in general I'm so sorry

01:37:32   I'm already here.

01:37:33   That's really rough.

01:37:34   You should go to the hospital.

01:37:35   I mean, handling objects, okay?

01:37:36   I think we're done.

01:37:37   I think we're done.

01:37:38   So yes, I bought a case.

01:37:54   The case of the teachers.

01:37:56   Yeah.

01:37:57   Do we have anything more?

01:37:58   Do we have... are we done?

01:38:00   We are...

01:38:01   Can I do one more Tim Cook quote?

01:38:06   We'll skip the rest of it.

01:38:07   It's fine.

01:38:08   He talks about China and Apple Pay and lots of other things.

01:38:10   But he says, "Five years ago, we were less than a billion dollars in revenue.

01:38:13   In the last 12 months, we were at 38 billion."

01:38:17   That's insane.

01:38:18   Right?

01:38:19   That's the whole thing.

01:38:20   Isn't that the amount of money?

01:38:22   Like it's just...

01:38:23   You might as well just say, "And we made good Liberty jibbit."

01:38:27   Like it doesn't even mean anything anymore.

01:38:29   It's so much money.

01:38:31   It's just an inconceivable amount of money.

01:38:34   Imagine the iCloud storage they could give to people.

01:38:38   Exactly.

01:38:39   If you want to find the show notes for this week's episode, then you should point your

01:38:44   web browser over to relay.fm/connected/26.

01:38:46   If you want to find us on Twitter, there's a couple of ways you can do that.

01:38:53   We have an account for the show, it's _connectedfm.

01:38:56   Steven does a great job of keeping user engagement high with the ever increasing levels of customer

01:39:03   sat via the social engagement platform.

01:39:06   I can't even hear you anymore.

01:39:12   We're also individually on Twitter.

01:39:13   Steven is @ismh and Federico is @fotichiviti.

01:39:19   CCI.

01:39:20   I am @imike.

01:39:21   I M Y K E. Federico writes the fantastic macstories.net.

01:39:26   and Stephen at the equallyfantastic512pixels.net.

01:39:30   We'll all be back next week for another episode

01:39:33   of your favorite podcast about Apple on the planet.

01:39:37   (both laughing)

01:39:42   Thanks again to our sponsors this week,

01:39:44   PDF Pen Pro 7, from Smile, Hover, and Automatic.

01:39:49   But most of all, thank you for listening.

01:39:53   Until then, say goodbye, gentlemen.

01:39:55   Adios.

01:39:57   That guy got crazy.