0:00:00So, today widgets.
0:00:02- Oh.
0:00:03(sighs)
0:00:03(classical music)
0:00:06- From Relay FM, this is Connected, episode number 16.
0:00:15Today's episode of Connected is brought to you
0:00:18by our friends at lynda.com, where you can instantly
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0:00:28Iconic, a fantastic book about Apple history and design and all of their fantastic products
0:00:33and also by Hover, simplified domain management.
0:00:37My name is Myke Hurley and as always I am joined by Mr Federico Vittucci.
0:00:41Hi Federico.
0:00:42Oh hey Myke, how are you doing?
0:00:43I am very well, how are you?
0:00:45I'm doing good sir.
0:00:46Did you hear the Italian flair that I put on your name today?
0:00:50Yeah I know you've been exercising.
0:00:53You're taking secret Italian classes in your spare time.
0:00:56I don't know why honestly.
0:00:57Well, I have an Italian vitamin supplement that I take every day.
0:01:01It's full of olive oil.
0:01:05I'm also joined by Steven Hackett.
0:01:07Hi Steven!
0:01:09No accent for me?
0:01:10Uh, no.
0:01:11Can you do a southern accent, Myke?
0:01:15No.
0:01:16That's weird because you're sound.
0:01:20How it is, Steven.
0:01:22Oh god.
0:01:23How's that?
0:01:24There's been a lot of conversation that you sound more American than you used to,
0:01:30which is definitely true.
0:01:31100% true.
0:01:32I don't know, how do you feel about that?
0:01:33Is that weird?
0:01:34Like, are you saddened?
0:01:35No, I'm fine with it.
0:01:38But there are some things you say that are the way I say them.
0:01:45You said something the other day on another show, and it was the exact same inflection
0:01:48that I do, which is a little Southern.
0:01:50I'm like, "Oh, I've ruined…"
0:01:52I feel guilty.
0:01:53I feel guilty for Americanizing you.
0:01:56And then you had Thanksgiving dinner, which is crazy.
0:01:59So, Myke, this new accent of yours, do you only use it on the shows?
0:02:05No.
0:02:06Or is it like a real life new accent that you have and you're like, people are surprised?
0:02:11No, this is my real voice now.
0:02:14This is the voice that I have.
0:02:16I talk this way.
0:02:18I only try and enunciate a little clearer on the shows, but I do have a new voice.
0:02:23I was going through some odd files the other day of shows and it's like just this weird
0:02:30person.
0:02:31Do you announce yourself to people in conversations like you do for each show?
0:02:35Well, yeah.
0:02:36My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined today by my friends.
0:02:39That's how I enter rooms.
0:02:41Yeah.
0:02:42Hello, my name is Myke Hurley and I'm at the fridge.
0:02:47This dinner is brought to you by Heinz Tomato Ketchup.
0:02:51Wow.
0:02:52That's how I live my life now.
0:02:55I think your voice is also a little deeper, like a little...
0:02:58A little more gravelly.
0:03:00A little more gravelly.
0:03:01I think that just comes from talking so much.
0:03:04Yeah.
0:03:05Yeah.
0:03:06I don't know, you don't smoke, so I guess it's just the podcasting.
0:03:11Yeah.
0:03:12Don't do podcast, kids.
0:03:13It'll ruin your voice.
0:03:15It's true.
0:03:17You need like a patch when you're not podcasting to get the fix.
0:03:20yeah well that's when I listen to podcasts make sure it's a dynamic patch
0:03:24though you need a Skype patch they were both excellent jokes and it's just a
0:03:32shame that neither of you allowed each other to to fully express them so that's
0:03:37just how it is thanks for the clarification Myke no worries no I just
0:03:42want you to both know that I appreciate your comedy you do yeah that's so I'm
0:03:47I'm glad to hear that.
0:03:49You know, because I mean, last week,
0:03:51we didn't do comedy.
0:03:54- We did. - No.
0:03:56No, we didn't, did we?
0:03:58We didn't do any of that.
0:04:00Well, are we migrating into a segment right now?
0:04:05- I think we're moving towards a follow-up.
0:04:09- Follow-up.
0:04:12- Oh, whoa, it's Myke.
0:04:14(laughing)
0:04:16That was amazing.
0:04:18Anytime.
0:04:19It's like it came from space.
0:04:22Came from Mars, baby.
0:04:24Yeah.
0:04:25We're going to Mars.
0:04:26Humanity is going to Mars, guys.
0:04:28Apparently so.
0:04:29Apparently so.
0:04:30That was a surprise, right?
0:04:32I mean, not if you follow all the NASA blogs.
0:04:35Some people might.
0:04:36Like space nerds, like you.
0:04:39Wow.
0:04:40Is Steven a space nerd?
0:04:41Beside the OS X nerd?
0:04:44Yeah.
0:04:45He likes old space like he likes old Max.
0:04:48- It's true, yeah, the Apollo was awesome.
0:04:50Space shuttle was dumb.
0:04:52Can I have a space podcast on the network?
0:04:54Oh, I don't need permission.
0:04:55I'm gonna do a space podcast.
0:04:57Let's do follow up.
0:04:58So apparently there are apps that can make GIFs
0:05:01with burst photos.
0:05:02- No.
0:05:03- Which is something that we said was not true.
0:05:06- No, basically.
0:05:07So I wrote these notes myself.
0:05:12I didn't mean to write them for you, I apologize.
0:05:14I shouldn't have let you start this.
0:05:15Basically, this is on the subject of apps
0:05:18that can make GIFs with burst photos,
0:05:20which is something I was talking about last week.
0:05:22- But can't take existing burst and create GIFs.
0:05:24This is the most confusing outline I've ever seen.
0:05:26- It's not written for you, it's written for me.
0:05:28So, I was talking about that last week,
0:05:31but there isn't there, 'cause there is an API that can do it.
0:05:33I have had this verified by smart people.
0:05:36I've spoken to smart people this week,
0:05:37and they have told me that this is definitely true.
0:05:39So people have been sending me in this week,
0:05:43apps that they believe solve the problem that I am trying to,
0:05:47that I would like to be solved, but they don't.
0:05:49So there's two apps that have been sent in to me,
0:05:52one by Patrick Welker, sorry, called Giffer Pro,
0:05:55which is one of the worst looking applications
0:05:57I've ever seen.
0:05:58And it's horrible, just look at the link.
0:06:02And Camoji, which was sent into us by a designer
0:06:05of everything, Relay FM, Frank Towers.
0:06:08Basically what these apps both do is they allow you
0:06:10to take either burst photos in the app and turn them into GIFs, or video and turn them
0:06:15into GIFs. None of these apps allow you to take existing burst photos and turn those
0:06:21into GIFs. That's what I'm talking about.
0:06:23So the problem is that you have many existing burst photos?
0:06:26No, it's just if I take a burst photo, I'm very rarely taking it for the purpose to make
0:06:32a GIF out of it, I'm taking it for a reason, and then later then want to make it into a
0:06:36GIF. I don't really like apps like...
0:06:39just in general. I don't like apps. I preferred them when they were programs and...
0:06:45Hey! I see what you did.
0:06:48No worries. I don't like apps that work as... what am I saying?
0:06:55Myke, what is it that you don't like exactly?
0:06:59So let's say it's something to do with a photo. I don't like it when you have to do everything in that one app.
0:07:07Like I like to be able to take the output of the camera app
0:07:11and turn that into the thing.
0:07:12So it's not like, oh, I wanna take this photo
0:07:15and make it a GIF.
0:07:16Let me go and find that app and open that app.
0:07:18I just wanna take what the camera app gives me
0:07:20and turn that into a thing.
0:07:22Am I making any sense?
0:07:24- It kinda makes sense, yeah.
0:07:26- It's like I prefer to not be constrained
0:07:30just by that one app and what that can do.
0:07:33- Yeah, because it means you can just use
0:07:34the Apple camera app and then, you know,
0:07:36just send all these photos to different utilities,
0:07:39depending on kind of what you want to make.
0:07:42- That is exactly it.
0:07:43Yeah. - Yeah.
0:07:43- So it's not relying on me,
0:07:46like sandboxing it into that one application.
0:07:50- Yeah, I also have a problem
0:07:52with all these like specialized camera apps,
0:07:55because I know that I'm going to use
0:07:57the Apple camera app anyway, you know?
0:07:59Especially because of the control center shortcut.
0:08:02I don't keep the camera icon on my home screen,
0:08:06because I have the control center.
0:08:10Also, kind of related to burst photos,
0:08:15I think I mentioned this before.
0:08:17I would love to have a burst mode for screenshots on iOS
0:08:21just to make--
0:08:22there is?
0:08:24Yes.
0:08:24Screenshots?
0:08:25Yeah, you have to use Google+, which
0:08:28your response to that tweet was really funny.
0:08:32Google+ has some sort of app or feature.
0:08:36When you put photos into Google+, you can select a bunch of them and...
0:08:40Oh yeah, but my problem is that I cannot take burst screenshots to begin with.
0:08:47Like imagine if you could...
0:08:50It's gotta be fast, just...
0:08:51You need a friend to come help you because your friend's too big.
0:08:58The screenshot friend, yeah.
0:09:00Also, the ability to record screencasts on iOS, like you can with QuickTime on the Mac.
0:09:07And now people will say, "Why don't you just use the Mac to take screencast?"
0:09:10Yeah, okay, yeah, whatever.
0:09:12I'm gonna get this people.
0:09:14Do you wanna know something weird about that?
0:09:16You know that the video thing, I don't know if you knew this Federico, and I hope that
0:09:21you don't know it so I can give you a piece of information.
0:09:24So you know that when you're using QuickTime to record the screencast, and it does the
0:09:30thing where it cleans up the status bar for you.
0:09:32Yes.
0:09:33Did you know it actually does it on the device, not just--
0:09:35Yes, it's done in real time.
0:09:36It's rendered on iOS.
0:09:38Which is so weird, isn't it?
0:09:40It's awesome.
0:09:40Oh, no, it's great that it does it.
0:09:42But I plugged it in, and I was like, oh, it
0:09:43does it on my device, too.
0:09:45Yeah, it's a private API that I know a few developers have
0:09:48tried to make apps with that.
0:09:52And of course, you know how that ends when you
0:09:55try to do private Apple stuff.
0:09:57There's a button in your app.
0:09:58Remove it.
0:09:59Okay, we'll get to that later.
0:10:00- Spoiler alert.
0:10:01- Yeah, I would love to have quick time on iOS.
0:10:07Please don't be upset, Myke.
0:10:09Don't be upset.
0:10:10I won't use it for podcasts.
0:10:12- You can have all of your apps on iOS.
0:10:14You just can't plug your devices in.
0:10:15- Yeah, but you don't like apps, right?
0:10:17- What you really need, you need a USB port on your iPad.
0:10:21- Not again, okay, okay, yeah, okay.
0:10:24- SD card slot or serial port.
0:10:27- They should just have four home buttons,
0:10:28like one on every, do you remember that when that was a thing?
0:10:30Yeah, that was.
0:10:31The iPad's gonna get two home buttons.
0:10:33No, it's not.
0:10:34Yeah, no, it's really, it's really not.
0:10:36I do.
0:10:37I don't know if you guys do this, but I have lots of problems when I use my iPad
0:10:44mini now because the power button is not where it is on my phone and I use my
0:10:48phone a lot more, like I've already so quickly adjusted to the button layout on
0:10:53the phone that the iPad is just broken.
0:10:56I'm like, where's the button?
0:10:57I can't find the button.
0:10:58like it's very confusing.
0:10:59- I struggle to either adjust the volume
0:11:01or lock my phone with one hand still though.
0:11:04Like I press both of them.
0:11:05- You bought the wrong phone.
0:11:06- Nope, nope.
0:11:07'Cause the button I have is sort of the same.
0:11:09- You guys want a quick teachy tip
0:11:10about adjusting to different devices?
0:11:15- Yeah.
0:11:16- Yes.
0:11:16- Okay, so.
0:11:17- Don't know why I'm nervous.
0:11:18- I am too though.
0:11:20- Okay, so here's my tip this week.
0:11:22Because I'm using the iPad in landscape mode,
0:11:25when I'm at my desk and I use a Bluetooth keyboard to type.
0:11:29What I did is I set up my, in the touch ID settings,
0:11:35I set up my fingerprint in the,
0:11:38like in a different orientation so that when I'm at my desk,
0:11:41I can just hold my finger and I don't have to rotate it
0:11:44to unlock with touch ID.
0:11:45So it kind of works even if you don't set up
0:11:48a different fingerprint in the settings,
0:11:50but if you do, it's faster
0:11:52because it doesn't have to like think about it.
0:11:55So yeah.
0:11:56- So can I tell you that your tip is dumb?
0:11:59- But why is it dumb?
0:11:59- Because on the Touch ID page, Apple says,
0:12:02I'm gonna quote them,
0:12:04place your finger on the home button
0:12:07and just like that your iPhone unlocks.
0:12:09Touch ID is capable of 360 degree readability,
0:12:12which means no matter what orientation,
0:12:14your iPhone reads your fingerprint and knows who you are.
0:12:17- Okay, I'm gonna test this live on the show.
0:12:19- Yeah, so try your thumb upside down.
0:12:21- Yeah, it works, yeah.
0:12:22- Totally works.
0:12:23For me after a while it becomes like slow.
0:12:26I can sell that it's- - It's 'cause you have pasta
0:12:27in your hands.
0:12:28- Yeah, you're sweating too much.
0:12:29- I don't have pasta.
0:12:30I'm not sweating, I perfectly stable.
0:12:33- I know why it is.
0:12:33- And normal hands.
0:12:36- It's 'cause you're working from the hot tub.
0:12:38- No, not really.
0:12:40- Have you ever tried to unlock your phone
0:12:41after taking a shower?
0:12:42It doesn't work.
0:12:43- I don't care what the Apple documentation says.
0:12:45You set up a second fingerprint for-
0:12:47- How dare you, sir.
0:12:48- For iPad landscape usage, you're gonna thank me.
0:12:52This is like when people told me,
0:12:53You don't have to set manual brightness and then you know battery life was better for many people
0:12:59So my iPad doesn't have touch ID because Myke talked me out of it. I don't have manual brightness because
0:13:04So we're gonna do this other thing I have a serious piece of follow-up
0:13:13Real quickly. So of all the feedback that I got for the Twitter
0:13:21monitoring installed apps thing
0:13:23that I said it wasn't a big deal and you know, I still think that of all the the stuff that companies can can
0:13:31Monitor this is not a big deal in my opinion still I got a lot of feedback and of all the feedback that I got
0:13:38the best
0:13:41Country argument to my to my point
0:13:43From a listener whose name I cannot remember
0:13:47basically, I'm sorry, I don't remember your name, it's not personal,
0:13:52basically said, what if I keep on my device apps that are related to my sexual orientation,
0:14:01and I don't want to tell anyone else yet?
0:14:05That's a great idea.
0:14:06That's a great point, and I should have thought of that.
0:14:10And of all the feedback that I got, like, yeah, I think it's a big deal,
0:14:15Yeah, I don't think it's a big deal because such and such.
0:14:18This is the best practical and I guess fair point.
0:14:22So thanks for sending it over Twitter.
0:14:25Yeah.
0:14:26That is a very good point.
0:14:28Yeah.
0:14:29Yeah, absolutely.
0:14:30It's like the Target thing, right?
0:14:32Where Target sent what they call or sent an advertisement or something about diapers and
0:14:36like they didn't know or like their parents didn't know they were pregnant or something.
0:14:40thing where a company could know more than people is, well it's probably already true
0:14:45with a bunch of companies, but it's sort of a strange situation to think about.
0:14:49And it's a really good point.
0:14:51And it's not that Twitter is like publishing this, but it's the fact that they know and
0:14:56that you might see ads based on that information.
0:15:02I think Myke, I think you said it last week, the idea that this is not information I'm
0:15:06putting into the system, this is information the app is getting on its own, like a lot
0:15:10of ramifications, and I'm sure there are even more that we haven't thought about.
0:15:13But it's good.
0:15:16Good feedback.
0:15:17We've basically called an amnesty on this topic, because it's been a lot of discussion
0:15:27aimed at us this week about it.
0:15:30A lot of people agree with me, a lot of people agree with Federico, and me and Federico don't
0:15:35talk anymore because of it. So we're just, you know, it is what it is.
0:15:43This is just one of those things that we differ in opinion on and I think that there are valid
0:15:46arguments on both sides. And I told Federico privately, and I'm gonna say it on the show,
0:15:53when he posts his Twitter article, I am going to try and just use the Twitter app for as
0:15:59long as I possibly can and see how far I go.
0:16:02So can I say something about the Twitter app itself and not the politics?
0:16:08So I feel the same way that I wanted to understand the app itself.
0:16:13So I have been using it a good bit the last couple days.
0:16:18And my fundamental problem with it is that I just find it confusing coming from Tweetbot
0:16:23where a tweet can be in several locations and like the replies and that sort of stuff
0:16:28I think is, it's not so much about the UI itself, but that it's just, there's a lot
0:16:36going on and it can be disorienting at times of where I am in the timeline and what's going
0:16:40on.
0:16:41I have no idea what earns the gray line and what doesn't earn the gray line.
0:16:46It's just a lot of elements going on that I think they need to simplify.
0:16:48But if you like your tweets so much, why don't you want to see them more?
0:16:54That's the thinking, right?
0:16:56I guess.
0:16:57It's like Facebook, right?
0:16:59No one actually sees the real Facebook timeline.
0:17:00It's about how they portray it.
0:17:03And I understand they're trying to make the content more interesting.
0:17:05And there's a lot of good stuff in the Twitter app.
0:17:07I really like the...
0:17:09What is it?
0:17:10What's the screen name?
0:17:11Where you can see other people's favorite and...
0:17:14Activity.
0:17:15Yeah, that's really pretty neat.
0:17:18And it's a good way to...
0:17:21I don't have notifications on for favorites or anything, but it's nice to know how a tweet
0:17:26performs. Oh God, I hate myself. But, um, it's, there's good stuff in there. I just
0:17:31find it like sort of overwhelming. I don't even know what's happening.
0:17:34Maybe I'm just old.
0:17:37Well, I'm a, if, uh, if it matters, I'm already at, uh, 10,000 words and I don't
0:17:46think I'm halfway through the article.
0:17:48I can't read that. Myke can't read that.
0:17:50Yeah, I know. Myke, you can, you can, uh, skip the sections.
0:17:54That's longer than my review of Yosemite.
0:17:56[LAUGHTER]
0:17:57Kij, can you just call me on that day and just read it to me?
0:18:01With my voice?
0:18:02Yeah.
0:18:03OK.
0:18:04Yeah.
0:18:05We'll be like an hour on Skype.
0:18:07That's fine.
0:18:08And I will read you my article about Twitter.
0:18:11We can make it a visa.
0:18:12It's not only about the Twitter app, so this will be interesting.
0:18:16This is new for me.
0:18:18I'm pretty excited.
0:18:20I thought I will likely spend a weekend taking screenshots, which is going to be fun.
0:18:27I'm really excited.
0:18:28Oh, this is going to be one of those weekends where you send us text messages asking us
0:18:33to do things for you, isn't it?
0:18:34Yeah, like send me fake messages and stuff.
0:18:38I enjoy those though.
0:18:40I do enjoy trying to think of new things to send you, to entertain the Max Stories audience.
0:18:46That's what I'm about.
0:18:47I'm an entertainer.
0:18:48Oh, yeah?
0:18:49professional podcasters. I was writing something the other day I can't remember
0:18:56what it was and I wanted to write that instead. It should be on your
0:19:03business card. I think I can't remember what it was but it was something like
0:19:07that and I was like no I want to say podcasters oh that was it I was I had an
0:19:11idea for for a blog post about about being a professional podcaster and I
0:19:17wanted to call it professional blogbusters. You wanted to publish a blog post? I wanted to, yeah.
0:19:21But what happened? I calmed down. You should have issued a bunch of
0:19:30posits tweets. I should have done actually. I had lots of posits that day.
0:19:37One of them was about lynda.com who are an easy and affordable way to help
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0:21:48Thank you so much to Linda for the continued support of Connected and helping us out at
0:21:53Relay FM.
0:21:54Michael, you spent Monday, was it Monday?
0:22:01It was Monday, yeah.
0:22:02Doing a thing.
0:22:04What did you do on Monday?
0:22:06On Monday I was at the Apple Store Regent Street moderating, well I don't know why they
0:22:12call it moderating because it was just one person.
0:22:14I was interviewing Neil McFarland who is the director of games for US2Games who you may
0:22:20know as the developers of Monument Valley.
0:22:23So I sat down with Neil and we spoke for about 40 minutes on video in the Apple Store Regent
0:22:30Street.
0:22:31Wait, wait, wait, there's a video?
0:22:33Yeah.
0:22:34Yeah, yeah, it's in full HD, baby.
0:22:37I've had some very concerned people tweeting me today.
0:22:41It's not normal for them to see me in video,
0:22:44but now you can see me on video,
0:22:45if that's what you really want to do.
0:22:46- Let me take a look.
0:22:47- I got all spruced up.
0:22:48I was all spruced up.
0:22:51Thank you, Steven, for calling me handsome.
0:22:53I appreciate that.
0:22:53It was a really interesting interview.
0:22:59It was a very different event.
0:23:00It was a great day,
0:23:00'cause we were talking about the red stuff, you know?
0:23:04And it was actually World AIDS Day on Monday,
0:23:07so when I was there.
0:23:08And it was a very, very enjoyable experience.
0:23:11It was very different.
0:23:12There was a small audience.
0:23:13I had to do the standard interview.
0:23:15There's a Q&A part.
0:23:16There was only one question in the Q&A,
0:23:18so I had to come up with new questions
0:23:20just off the top of my head to ask, which was great.
0:23:24And it was a great honor.
0:23:26I met some great people that night, and I was very...
0:23:29It felt fantastic to be in that environment
0:23:33and do something like that and now it's available on the iTunes store
0:23:36and I got a little plug for relay FM in it at the start as well
0:23:40I'm trying to find your face in the video
0:23:44It's after like 30 or 40 seconds
0:23:47they throw to me it right at the start
0:23:49Oh I'm looking at your face now
0:23:51There you go
0:23:52Your face is moving, you're talking
0:23:54You're very handsome Myke
0:23:55Thank you, thank you very much
0:23:57Nice shirt man
0:23:58I dressed up
0:24:00I got my herded, I got my bearded
0:24:02So strange to see your face, like with your lips moving.
0:24:07Oh yeah, because I guess like because me and you had never met before.
0:24:09Because for me, like for me, you are your profile picture and your voice.
0:24:16Yeah.
0:24:17And the picture moving is kind of weird, you know?
0:24:22So this is how people felt when they saw TV for the first time.
0:24:25So Myke, as much as you can say, how did this...
0:24:32Is that a pebble, Myke? Sorry, Stephen, is that a pebble?
0:24:34Yeah, pebble steel. You know I'm a pebble user, that's not a secret.
0:24:37Mine is charging right now because it's dead.
0:24:41Anyways, Myke, how did this come about?
0:24:43Well, originally it was meant to be Dan Gray, who's the executive producer,
0:24:50but unfortunately he had to pull out at the last minute, so his boss, Neil, stepped in.
0:24:55Dan just... Basically, Apple had asked us if they would do this.
0:25:02they said yes.
0:25:03And usually there are guest moderators.
0:25:04I don't know what the standard protocol is
0:25:06for having a moderator,
0:25:09but because some videos from the Read&Treat store
0:25:13have celebrities interviewing app developers,
0:25:17so there's a lot of Stephen Fry, well I guess so.
0:25:19And then other than that, they have a guy from The Guardian
0:25:23who seems to do most of them.
0:25:25So maybe they give the offer,
0:25:26like would you like to have someone?
0:25:27And Dan asked me if I would do it,
0:25:29and of course I said yes.
0:25:30So yeah, and then I kind of corresponded with him
0:25:35and the people, there are actually people
0:25:37that work for Apple that are like, this is their job,
0:25:40they are the theater managers and the theater team
0:25:43of these events, 'cause these events,
0:25:45they have huge celebrities.
0:25:46Like there are videos from the Regency store
0:25:49of like Stephen Fry, Cameron Diaz,
0:25:51they have movie stars there,
0:25:52like they had Jon Hamm there a couple of weeks ago.
0:25:54And so yeah, then they basically said to me,
0:25:58prepare your questions, so I did that.
0:26:00And kind of, yeah, and got there on the day
0:26:05and we sat in the not fancy green room
0:26:08and went to talk through some things with Neil
0:26:10and then we got up on stage and I did my thing.
0:26:13- You should have talked about photo management.
0:26:16- I tried to, I tried to, but they kept like,
0:26:19they kept threatening me from the side of the stage,
0:26:21so I had to stop.
0:26:22- You should have pushed the relay agenda on stage.
0:26:27- I kind of did. - Still.
0:26:28right at the start. I said I was from Real AFM, so.
0:26:31And then a poison dart came out of the back and hit Myke in the neck.
0:26:37So, and Daniel was on episode 14 of Inquisitor, which if you haven't listened to is really good.
0:26:42Yeah.
0:26:44I was really, I mean I love Monument Valley, although I'm currently angry with the red level because I'm stuck.
0:26:51But it's a great game and listening to the interview,
0:26:56and then I haven't watched your video yet,
0:26:58it just came out today, but they really care about it
0:27:01in a very deep way.
0:27:04And it really shows in the game, right,
0:27:06that they sweat every single little detail.
0:27:10And it's cool, it's cool that you got an interview.
0:27:12Congratulations on doing that.
0:27:15- Congrats, Myke.
0:27:16- Thank you.
0:27:16Yeah, Neil has some really cool stuff to say, so.
0:27:19- Yeah, you are--
0:27:19- It's just really interesting to watch.
0:27:20Even if you've listened to the video I did with Dan, like Neil has some other stuff to say.
0:27:23They also talk through a couple of levels, like they demo them, and me and Neil are talking
0:27:31about what's happening in the levels as they're happening, so it's pretty cool.
0:27:34There's a lot of good stuff in there, actually.
0:27:36Is it weird to interview somebody when you could see them?
0:27:39I thought it would be, but it was very easy.
0:27:44Wait, does that mean you can see me now?
0:27:47Are all the podcasts secretly video podcasts?
0:27:49Well I have like little dolls made of you all and I just sit them in front of me when
0:27:53I'm talking so usually it's fine.
0:27:56Myke is it fair to say that you are now a professional video casters?
0:28:02It is fair actually.
0:28:05I'm going to take that.
0:28:06I am now a professional vlogger as well as a podcaster.
0:28:11I mean it's a heck of a way to start.
0:28:13Yeah it's a pretty big bang initially.
0:28:15I don't really know how I'm gonna follow that up, but I'll find a way.
0:28:20Some people are creationist.
0:28:22Anyways, topic.
0:28:24We ready for topic 0.5?
0:28:26What has happened to our topic numbers, by the way?
0:28:28So that was topic 0.3, the next is 0.5, the next, after the next ad read is 0.6.
0:28:34We don't have, well, we have one topic one.
0:28:36Yeah, we have taken the Google Chrome versioning number.
0:28:40Yeah, we should go back to the Facebook where everyone just has a normal number.
0:28:44- Topic 20.
0:28:45- Are they, they're version like 19 now, I think.
0:28:48- This is probably technically like topic 416,
0:28:52or something like that, but.
0:28:53- Oh yeah, we should have counted from the beginning.
0:28:55- Uh huh, that would have been great.
0:28:56- We should have somebody download all the prompt episodes
0:28:58and do that.
0:28:59We could just have it running Tally.
0:29:00- Count all the topics.
0:29:01- You know that's gonna happen, right?
0:29:02Eventually.
0:29:03- Maybe.
0:29:05- Like people like our dear listeners
0:29:08will do some sort of workflow to count the episodes.
0:29:13Can't you do something like this in editorial?
0:29:15No, because you don't support chapters in the files.
0:29:22Please don't.
0:29:23Stop.
0:29:23Stop.
0:29:24Don't you dare.
0:29:25Don't do this to me, man.
0:29:26[LAUGHTER]
0:29:27OK.
0:29:28I had basically everybody in Germany tweet me a week ago,
0:29:31telling me to do it.
0:29:32In Germany?
0:29:33What, Germany?
0:29:33Germany is very much about order.
0:29:35They want sanctioned files.
0:29:37A listener from Germany tweeted me
0:29:40and said that he wanted me to add chapters.
0:29:42and I said that not enough people want it,
0:29:44it's not something that I'm interested in doing,
0:29:46and he was like, "loads of people want it."
0:29:47And I said to him, "If you get a thousand people
0:29:50to tell me that you want--" - No, no way.
0:29:51Why did you do that?
0:29:53- 'Cause I thought it wouldn't happen.
0:29:55I said, "If you get a thousand people to tell me
0:29:58that you want chapters, that they want chapters,
0:30:01I'll do it."
0:30:02- Did he start a petition?
0:30:03- He basically tweeted a few times
0:30:05and got other people to tweet,
0:30:06and it was just effectively,
0:30:07it was just a bunch of people from Germany
0:30:09and other places in Europe.
0:30:10You were just watching just all night. It's like for like for two days like they didn't get to a thousand
0:30:16It was maybe no more than 100
0:30:18But they just kept coming in and they were like, yeah
0:30:20And there was like people were like issuing tweets that were like if you want chapters in really fm shows
0:30:25You got a tweet at Myke and tell him this and I'm like, oh, what have I done?
0:30:27It was like it felt like fun to me at the time. I appreciate you not dragging me into that
0:30:32Yeah, I know that I that was solely my thing to do it
0:30:35Perfectly fine. I'm still it guys
0:30:39We have a topic
0:30:41So we talked a lot about Twitter last week and
0:30:46We did Federico has put a question. I assume this was Federico. I did it. I did it
0:30:52I was not I was not on top of the notes this week
0:30:55What would we want from us a new social network now to replace Twitter?
0:30:58Let me set this up then for while I was thinking this so I actually was also talking to this today with Gina
0:31:04Trapani and inquisitive it's not posted yet, but it will be over time. This is out anyway
0:31:08I was thinking, the problem that we have is,
0:31:13and we spoke about this, we're stuck in Twitter.
0:31:18No matter whether we love it or hate it,
0:31:20there's kind of nothing we can do
0:31:22because this is where we are.
0:31:23We're kind of stuck in this now.
0:31:25This is our thing.
0:31:26App.net died because we wouldn't all move over there.
0:31:29We went there, but we didn't move.
0:31:31So we're kind of in this scenario where this is where we are.
0:31:35So my thing can be the only way that we can break away
0:31:39from Twitter is that something has to replace it, right?
0:31:42Because we all kind of love this community that we have
0:31:45and we wanna go there.
0:31:46So what do we want?
0:31:48What does a social network need to do
0:31:50and what do we want from one
0:31:52that would make it like the perfect social network?
0:31:55That we wouldn't have any problems with it
0:31:57and it would be awesome and we would be happy to be there.
0:32:00So I broke this down to a few things.
0:32:03So like what features do we want?
0:32:05like who needs to be there?
0:32:06Like how many of our friends or like what types of friends
0:32:08do we just want our nerds?
0:32:09Do we want celebrities?
0:32:10Do we want real friends?
0:32:11Do we need them all?
0:32:13What do we want the company's values to be?
0:32:16Do we want there to be apps like that are made first party
0:32:21or third party and what does the API need to look like?
0:32:24They're kind of like the basic sort of areas
0:32:27that I wanted to explore.
0:32:28- Okay.
0:32:30- So for me, I'll start it off.
0:32:32- Okay.
0:32:33I quite like something which is more of a combination
0:32:36between Twitter and Instagram.
0:32:37So I don't want like a Facebook,
0:32:40but I want in essence text to be,
0:32:44it to be like mainly text.
0:32:46I don't wanna go all the way up to 256 characters
0:32:49'cause it's too much,
0:32:50but maybe a little bit more than 140.
0:32:52I love all of the mechanics of Twitter.
0:32:56So at replies, hashtags, all of that sort of stuff.
0:33:00But I would like images to be supported greater.
0:33:02So it maybe could look a little bit more like the sort of wrap of cards for example, you know,
0:33:07but like in to fit it to be more photo features built right in because it's
0:33:12like a big thing that you share. And I think for me that's like kind of the
0:33:18perfect type like feature set. And I would for me to be there I would just
0:33:24need my nerdy friends. I'm totally cool with celebrities not being there. I'm
0:33:27totally cool with that my real-life friends being there like there are other
0:33:31social networks where that can occur but I want like you know the the bloggers
0:33:36that I enjoy and the podcasters that I enjoy and like my friends that I have
0:33:40because of this stuff you know like the people that I've met and become
0:33:45acquainted with because of this type of stuff I would like all of those people
0:33:49to be there so I can basically replicate the type of discussion I see every day.
0:33:53The company itself like a lot of things don't really bother me I would like the
0:33:59company's business model to just let me pay. Ideally that's what I would like to
0:34:04do and I would pay a relatively large sum of money. I'd probably pay
0:34:08like $25 to $30 a month I would pay for a service like that if it meant that it
0:34:13would stay around forever and wouldn't be like changed in ways that we don't
0:34:17want. I don't care if they have advertising as long as they're very
0:34:20clear about the way that they do the advertising and they don't like take any
0:34:25data that I wouldn't want to give them and that sort of stuff.
0:34:30Paying and getting advertising is not necessarily that much of an
0:34:34issue for me as long as it kind of fits. With apps there should be a first-party
0:34:41application in my opinion for a network like this so it can show
0:34:45people what they think should be done in the same way that like Apple's apps
0:34:49exist. They're like "this is how we think it should be done, you can choose
0:34:53whatever you want to do it like this but we are setting the standard of this is
0:34:56how minimum how good our apps need to be and I would want there to be an API that
0:35:01was very much like the Twitter of old which basically allowed people to have
0:35:04access to everything they could they could get into everything nothing is
0:35:07closed off like there's no features that the official app that has that the API
0:35:11couldn't have and that kind of thing so it's for me it's like a mix between like
0:35:18the third-party world and Twitter of old like and maybe a little bit of app.net
0:35:24sprinkled in here and there. It sounds like you described app.net. Yeah, because
0:35:30that's kind of what they were doing right like yeah because in theory like
0:35:34this is the whole thing like in theory app.net was perfect it was perfect but
0:35:39they came up in theory no in saying in theory like it was everything in theory
0:35:44that we would have wanted a service to replace Twitter to be, right?
0:35:48Because it kind of had all of the things that we wanted
0:35:51and it combated things that we were unhappy about.
0:35:55The problem was we didn't move.
0:35:57It was just full of geeks.
0:35:59That's what I mean. Like if everybody moved,
0:36:01like that's what I mean, like in a perfect world,
0:36:04App.net was perfect because it gave everything that we wanted,
0:36:07didn't give us the stuff we didn't want,
0:36:09and allowed us to pay for it and had a great API.
0:36:12And like there was a great app ecosystem, right?
0:36:14In theory, that was what people said that they wanted from Twitter for years.
0:36:18Yeah, but it lacked the diversity of Twitter.
0:36:25But that's what I'm saying.
0:36:26It was only people talking about tech.
0:36:27Yeah, but that's what I'm saying.
0:36:29It's like in a perfect world, so everyone moving, if basically you took Twitter's entire
0:36:34user base, lifted them up, and put app.net below them and lowered them back down again,
0:36:39it's perfect.
0:36:40That's what I'm saying.
0:36:41You needed to have done that.
0:36:43You won't get people to pay for these kind of services.
0:36:46I know, I know, I understand that, but I'm just saying, like, in a perfect world.
0:36:52Yeah.
0:36:53So, I think there's a lot of interesting things in there.
0:37:01As you were talking about it, I was reminded of a tweet that we got yesterday about, basically
0:37:07the tweet was like, "Why did Twitter make the API in the first place?
0:37:11just set the stage for the showdown.
0:37:14And it's, like that's a really interesting idea and Twitter was an API first because
0:37:21that's what internet companies do.
0:37:24Like Twitter would not be, would not have enjoyed the quick rate of success that it
0:37:29had if it weren't for a third party app.
0:37:32Because we don't even, Twitter didn't even have a first party app until much much later
0:37:36until they bought Tweety and rebranded it.
0:37:39And you know, App.net followed the same course.
0:37:42They had an API and a website and they let people build apps on top of it.
0:37:47Some great apps came out of that space.
0:37:51Where Twitter is now is they're trying to reel that back in and say, "No, no, the API
0:37:57is sort of not what we want to do.
0:37:59Everybody wants to be in the first party app."
0:38:03That's where that whole explosion that happened on this show last week stems from that transition.
0:38:09And I think that transition is inevitable on social networks.
0:38:14I think Facebook is the notable exception that Facebook was a website and then they
0:38:20eventually had mobile apps.
0:38:22But Facebook really never had a full fee.
0:38:25You couldn't write a Facebook client.
0:38:28You could interact with Facebook in certain ways, but you couldn't build a full-fledged
0:38:31client because their product was not the API.
0:38:34Their product was the website first.
0:38:37And I think, and I think, so I think Myke.net or whatever this fanciful social network.
0:38:43Totally what you should call it.
0:38:44Yeah, Myke.net.
0:38:46Like that friction point, like that friction point always has to be answered with web services.
0:38:52Do you do an API or do you do a product?
0:38:54Because an API ultimately is not a product.
0:38:57It can serve as a product for a little while, but what it's going to become is a gateway
0:39:01for people to take control of what you think your product should be.
0:39:06That's exactly what happened with Twitter.
0:39:07It's why people are freaking out about it now.
0:39:11And so this idea of what does a future social network, what does that look like?
0:39:20Anything where a single company controls the API has the potential to fall into the quagmire
0:39:28that is Twitter today.
0:39:29You look at things like tent.is, these decentralized social networks, or even email, which is maybe
0:39:38perhaps the first decentralized, well definitely not the first, but a decentralized social
0:39:43network.
0:39:44You know, bulletin boards back in the day, anyone could sign up for any bulletin board,
0:39:48you could run your own bulletin board.
0:39:51Those are more flexible because you can do whatever you want, but the technical debt
0:39:58or the technical limitations are higher.
0:40:01Twitter's really easy, Facebook is really easy.
0:40:03You go on a website and you sign up, right?
0:40:05All of us have done it, all of our parents have done it,
0:40:07not a big deal.
0:40:08But you look at something that's decentralized
0:40:10that you have to find a server and join,
0:40:12there might be username issues or it's messy.
0:40:16That's ultimately better, perhaps, but more complicated
0:40:19and therefore less likely to succeed.
0:40:21- That was pretty sweet. - Can I share my thoughts?
0:40:25- You can. - Please.
0:40:26This is going to upset you both.
0:40:30So I guess we need to have a talk about how
0:40:32normal people perceive software, especially
0:40:34this kind of social software that most people want
0:40:36to use in the world.
0:40:37So I'm just going to say that most people don't care
0:40:39about open source and decentralization of software.
0:40:43They couldn't care less about APIs using different apps.
0:40:45They just want a free service that
0:40:47lets them sign up with a username and a password
0:40:50and a mobile app, and that's it.
0:40:52They don't care about, oh, is this social network
0:40:55decentralized? Does it let me set up my API? Does it let me use apps for multiple developers?
0:41:01They don't care. And I think that the success of Facebook and Twitter and other, I guess,
0:41:07many, many other products such as Internet Explorer or Google Chrome, or I'm trying to
0:41:13think of any other popular app, Skype, Spotify, they show that people don't care about the
0:41:20political fairness of software in this way. The idea of a social network that is decentralized
0:41:28and that has a stable and fair API is just a nerd fantasy. And that's appealing to us
0:41:36because it sounds fair and technically intriguing to us, but people don't care about this stuff.
0:41:45And I believe that with the current Facebook and Twitter, we are kind of close to the perfect
0:41:51social network that people want in the world.
0:41:54I think that, I mean, Facebook is now 10 years old, I guess, and Twitter is what, like, eight
0:42:00years old.
0:42:02The fact that new services haven't been able to come around and replace them, I think it
0:42:07kind of shows that the ideas behind Facebook and Twitter are solid, you know?
0:42:12And maybe there's a bit of contamination between both, because Facebook wants to be more like
0:42:16Twitter, and Twitter wants to be a little more like Facebook.
0:42:20But still, I think that they still have plenty of room to improve and discover, like, release
0:42:27new features, Facebook and Twitter.
0:42:29I honestly don't see how, at this point, a new player could come around with a revolutionary
0:42:36idea or feature and convince the entire planet to switch.
0:42:41That said, I'm not saying that 10 or 20 years from now there won't be another Facebook or
0:42:47Twitter or whatever.
0:42:49I'm just saying that today, to me especially, they seem to be doing just fine because people
0:42:58don't want more, I guess, from Facebook and Twitter.
0:43:04And if anything, look at all these new messaging apps that millions of people use, WhatsApp
0:43:11and Line and iMessage. None of these apps, which can be considered social networks in
0:43:18a way, they don't have decentralization, they don't have an API. Not even Apple, who promised
0:43:25to make iMessage an open standard. So this is just, you know, we want the perfect
0:43:32It's like one of those videos that you find on YouTube about the perfect smartphone
0:43:36And it's like just a bunch of features taken from all the popular smartphones
0:43:40So I want the body of an HTC and I want the camera of an iPhone and I want the GPU of another Android phone
0:43:45That's just a fantasy that will never happen or be practical in practice
0:43:48Practical in practice nice nice teaching. Um
0:43:51so for me
0:43:54for me
0:43:56If I had to to pick between Twitter and Facebook
0:44:00because come on, Google+ really.
0:44:02Twitter and Facebook, I would say Twitter is closer to my taste and
0:44:07But there'll still be improvements that I would like to see in Twitter
0:44:13I totally agree with Myke when you mention the photos
0:44:16Especially when it comes to the quality of photos and the fact that you can have these basic effects and filters
0:44:25But they're not really serious filters or effects.
0:44:30It feels like a plug-in into the Twitter app that's not really part of the core experience.
0:44:37So I totally agree with the photos.
0:44:39I also think that Twitter should find new ways to, like, if I'm not interested in American
0:44:47politics or sports or other events, there should be better ways to, I don't know how,
0:44:55to modify the timeline when there's a major event that you care or do not care about.
0:45:00Because I think that puts a lot of friction when you want to follow people on Twitter,
0:45:05but you're not interested in a special topic or an event or something.
0:45:12I'm glad to see that Twitter is launching new features and tools to block people, to
0:45:20report people for harassment and that kind of stuff.
0:45:23It's about time.
0:45:24Yeah, it's about time. And I think as more people keep using and start using public social products,
0:45:32it's extremely important to be able to let people control their experience and report other users.
0:45:39I've thought about, like, and then I'll finish with this segment.
0:45:47I thought about, like, for me one of the big things in the Twitter app is being able to
0:45:53preview content in tweets.
0:45:59So I'm thinking about the Twitter cards and the fact that they give you these previews
0:46:03of articles on the web, they give you a preview of videos, SoundCloud, audio, iTunes previews
0:46:11sometimes.
0:46:12I think that ideally my perfect social network would have a much, much broader and more integrated
0:46:19approach to this, like being able to extract information from links or other sources and
0:46:30show me more context.
0:46:32I don't want to just see a link in my timeline.
0:46:36I want to be able to see what's inside that link without necessarily opening that link.
0:46:41And Twitter is getting close to this idea with cards.
0:46:46And also another product that does this pretty well is Slack, with all the integration and
0:46:51the snippets that they put into the chat rooms.
0:46:53So ideally my social network will be able to do this with any kind of external link
0:46:59or resource or piece of content that is put into my timeline.
0:47:04But really, I cannot think of any other...
0:47:07Like I don't, I really don't think that a company like App.net or like our idea of a
0:47:17social network that is kind of like Twitter but also more like App.net because of the
0:47:22API and the monetization could ever happen practically because people, they don't want
0:47:29to pay.
0:47:30Because when you-- also, my last point--
0:47:33because when you release an API and you allow just about
0:47:38any developer to create apps, and if you really
0:47:43want the entire population of Earth to use your service
0:47:47and you make a first party app, eventually and inevitably,
0:47:52you are going to compete with developers.
0:47:54And at that point, because you're the platform owner,
0:47:57you're going to put exclusive features into your app.
0:48:02Because you want people to use your app,
0:48:04because you want to make money.
0:48:06Because I cannot think of any service,
0:48:08and correct me if I'm wrong,
0:48:09any popular public social service
0:48:12that is free and open source and nobody profits.
0:48:16And it's, everybody, billions of people use it.
0:48:19And every day, like Twitter or Facebook or Google search
0:48:23or Spotify or whatever, or iTunes,
0:48:26All the major products are done with profit in mind, in some way.
0:48:31And that's my problem.
0:48:32The idea of an API decentralization is romantic.
0:48:36It's awesome, it's beautiful, it just doesn't scale.
0:48:39Well, you've not said anything I don't know.
0:48:42My point was not about building--
0:48:43Snap.
0:48:44No, I mean, you were saying about the start
0:48:47of your conversation was like, that won't work because that's
0:48:52not what regular people want.
0:48:53I know that.
0:48:55my point was this is what I think is my perfect social network.
0:48:59It's not the way to build one because it won't work, but that this is what I,
0:49:03my perfect social network looks like that.
0:49:05It's kind of App.net with a sprinkle on top effectively. But I mean,
0:49:10I understand that it can't work and I know the reason that App.net failed was
0:49:14because nobody moved and no one's going to pay.
0:49:17And like that's just how these things are.
0:49:20Yeah. But don't you, don't you wanna, don't you wanna have a more, um,
0:49:24What's the name? Like something that will happen as a wish? Don't you want to hope for something real?
0:49:32Well, I know I'm not going to get anything that's better than what we have, because the way that the...
0:49:38It's like, you know, what am I going to get? Like, I'll just take Twitter as it is, please. Just leave it as it is.
0:49:44You just want a non-profit, like, for good social network.
0:49:49a pure wish because it's, you know, Ferrico's right, like there can't be something that
0:49:54does the things that I want it to be because the business model doesn't work.
0:49:57Well it does work at scale but it doesn't work to make people feel too rich and that's
0:50:01what people care about.
0:50:02I totally get it, it's just that if you think about it that way, that you know will never
0:50:07happen but that's what you want, you'll be like sad and disappointed and I don't want
0:50:11you to be sad.
0:50:12I am sad already.
0:50:13No, please don't be.
0:50:15I am because I like it the way, you know, we're going back to last week, I like it the
0:50:19it the way I like it and people are changing it. I think you should change your fantasy
0:50:23so you'll be happier. Fantasy is... Adjust your dreams sir and you will be a happier
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0:52:37It occurred to me that I've become the bad guy on this show lately.
0:52:41You are the villain.
0:52:42I don't like it.
0:52:43You are the villain.
0:52:44I don't like it.
0:52:45You are the villain.
0:52:46You are against platform development, you like restricted environments, and you believe
0:52:52in selling people's information.
0:52:54And that's why you're going to tell me that you're going to switch back to Chrome now,
0:52:57right?
0:52:58That's what this topic is about.
0:52:59I'm a realist.
0:53:00I'm a realist.
0:53:01I know.
0:53:02I just don't want to be disappointed like I'm going to be disappointed.
0:53:04Yes, I want to live a happy life with no disappointments and I want to use it.
0:53:09Stop it.
0:53:10No, we're not going to stop.
0:53:11There's nothing you can do.
0:53:12I'm so sad.
0:53:13Don't be sad.
0:53:14Let's talk about browsers.
0:53:15Steven used to be the sad guy because of all the dead mechs and stuff.
0:53:20And now I'm the bad guy.
0:53:21You're not a bad guy.
0:53:23And you're the sad one.
0:53:24I'm the sad guy.
0:53:25Steven is happy now he has an iPad.
0:53:27I mean, what has this show become?
0:53:29I don't know.
0:53:30Hey guys, let me tell you about my workflows
0:53:32So like espresso lately I would like I would like to tell a story
0:53:39Okay, so today
0:53:42Earlier today I get a message from Federico and says hey, let's talk about browsers on the show. I said, hey, that's great
0:53:48So no, you said cool and they cool. Yeah
0:53:52So I seemed like yeah
0:53:55I went about what browsers are used on OS X
0:53:57and why that's true, and then I opened the topic
0:53:59and it's browsers on iOS,
0:54:01which I am not prepared for at all.
0:54:03Just showing the difference between my world and yours.
0:54:05- Well, okay, this came up because of a conversation
0:54:09me and Federico had,
0:54:10have been having over the last couple of days.
0:54:14So maybe we can-- - Wow, who allowed that
0:54:16to happen?
0:54:17- We have secret messages.
0:54:18- I message. - Whoa.
0:54:19- This is where we plot our social network.
0:54:22I think you can imagine how terrible it goes.
0:54:25So basically Federico over the last couple of days has been highlighting on
0:54:28Mac stories a couple of great apps that take advantage of reading the iOS Safari
0:54:34DOM. It's this new thing, you know how Bing does the translation thing?
0:54:39Well there's a great app called Stacks which just came out and which is a
0:54:43currency converter and what it can do with its extension in Safari is it can
0:54:48take all of the currencies or the monetary amounts, I can't think of the
0:54:53word prices there you go all the prices of products on a website and it can do
0:54:59in page conversion and replace them with your currency of choice which is
0:55:03freaking amazing and there was another app as well right Federico what was the
0:55:08other one you were telling me about or is it not out yet? Well I showed you the font
0:55:12the font app. What font? So this is an app that can identify fonts on a web page so
0:55:20he was saying to me hey would you like this app and I was like does it work
0:55:23in Chrome? I said no. So this is what we wanted to talk about. So I am a Chrome user, I've
0:55:29mentioned this before. I use Chrome on the desktop and I use Chrome on iOS because I
0:55:34like to have the same browser because there are intrinsic benefits to that. I'll get into
0:55:38that in a minute. Federico used to be a Chrome user, I know, and then he moved to Safari
0:55:43a while ago. I'll put a link in the show notes to Federico's epic.
0:55:46Very publicly moved to Safari.
0:55:49So there's a great poster Federico wrote about his reasons for doing that.
0:55:54And then as I had feared, as time has gone on into iOS 8, there are now a bunch of apps
0:56:00which are extensions that take full support of the powerful stuff that can happen inside
0:56:07of Safari only.
0:56:10Chrome can use extensions, but it can't do the reading of the DOM.
0:56:14I know I'm saying this incorrectly, I know I'm saying something wrong, but you get what
0:56:18I'm trying to say.
0:56:19- Sounds like a chapter of the Bible.
0:56:20Honestly.
0:56:21- Okay, I'll try DOM manipulation now instead,
0:56:25'cause that also sounds interesting.
0:56:26So, I mean, like Chrome can do a bunch of things,
0:56:29like I can clip stuff to Evernote and all that sort of stuff,
0:56:32but it can't do the reading and the whatever.
0:56:35So Federico was saying to me, "Why do you use Chrome?"
0:56:39And then we decided, "Let's talk about it on the show."
0:56:41So, I'm a Chrome user on the desktop
0:56:45because of Google Apps primarily.
0:56:48I use Google Drive constantly.
0:56:52I'm in it all day.
0:56:53I have a whole different window set up with just full of tabs,
0:56:57and it's just got-- it's just Sheets and Docs and Drive
0:57:02and everything is all there.
0:57:03Now, I know I could run Chrome separately for this
0:57:06and have just Chrome as the Google Drive app that runs.
0:57:10But if I'm going to use one browser,
0:57:12I like a consistent experience.
0:57:14So my history is saved, and all the tabs are saved,
0:57:17and stuff like that.
0:57:18because for example, quite frequently,
0:57:20I'll click a link that's in a show document
0:57:22and there'll be a page that's come up
0:57:23and then I might wanna read it somewhere else later
0:57:25or bring it up on the other machine
0:57:26so everything's in sync, right?
0:57:28'Cause sometimes I will have something on the MacBook Pro
0:57:31and then I bring it up on the production machine
0:57:32to play a city sound effects or something like that.
0:57:34So if I'm gonna use any browser,
0:57:36I just want it to be the same browser.
0:57:38So some other stuff is I really like on iOS
0:57:42the support that Google has for X-Callback URL.
0:57:46So a frequent thing where this pops up is I'm in Mailbox,
0:57:50and I go out to a link that's in an email,
0:57:55and then I press the button on the top left,
0:57:57and it closes a tab and takes me back to Mailbox.
0:57:59Same with Tweetbot, there's a bunch of apps that do this.
0:58:02Google Chrome will open directions for me in Google Maps,
0:58:06which I also use.
0:58:07So there is, Google has, in my opinion,
0:58:10with third-party apps on iOS, a better relationship.
0:58:13It shares information better,
0:58:15it takes you around the OS a lot better,
0:58:17because at Safari, you just end up in Safari,
0:58:20and then you have to go back your own way to the app.
0:58:23Also, Safari on iOS's tab view
0:58:26makes me wanna stab my eyes out.
0:58:28I think it's horrific.
0:58:29I don't like the way it looks.
0:58:31I don't like that it's just this endless spinning thing.
0:58:34Sometimes I go to Safari, and I'm like,
0:58:38page, page, page, I'm just spinning down
0:58:40this roller decks of tabs.
0:58:42I don't like it, it's just not to my taste.
0:58:44So they are the reasons that I use Chrome.
0:58:47Tell me why.
0:58:49- Steven, what do you do?
0:58:50Is Steven out of this conversation completely?
0:58:53- Hey.
0:58:54- Hi.
0:58:55- Oh, are we still?
0:58:56- Do you wanna talk about iOS stuff, man?
0:58:59- I have a lot of things to say.
0:59:01- Okay.
0:59:02- First off,
0:59:02I totally get that Google Apps is better in Chrome,
0:59:08like it just is.
0:59:10the web nerd in me is saddened by that,
0:59:15because I think that your browser should be your choice
0:59:18and not the choice of whatever.
0:59:21Chrome could totally be the new Internet Explorer.
0:59:25It's a little scary, especially from a development perspective.
0:59:28There's a lot of stuff that Google's doing that only works
0:59:30in Chrome or is Chrome first.
0:59:31But we've talked about that.
0:59:32I have Chrome-- actually, I don't anymore.
0:59:38I used to have Chrome installed on iOS
0:59:40when I used Chrome more heavily on the Mac.
0:59:43But like Federico, I have gone back to Safari,
0:59:46mainly because of the desktop, as you might imagine.
0:59:51That Chrome is just really rough on battery life
0:59:54on notebooks, and that's important to me.
0:59:56I use my notebook a lot out and about during the day,
0:59:58and Safari gives me sometimes hours of battery life back.
1:00:03And so I don't love Safari in Yosemite.
1:00:07I think that everything being centered is dumb.
1:00:09I think that transparency is dumb.
1:00:11I think that there's a lot of things in Safari
1:00:14that aren't very good in Yosemite,
1:00:16but it's fast and it's easy on battery.
1:00:18And so I've moved back to it on the Mac.
1:00:23And because of that, like I've always used Safari
1:00:26as my primary browser on iOS, but using it on the Mac,
1:00:29you get all that integration with iCloud tabs.
1:00:31And it's just a tighter experience
1:00:37if you're using the same browser everywhere.
1:00:39And for me, I like the way the Safari does that better.
1:00:44I actually agree with Stephen.
1:00:46What a surprise.
1:00:47Like entirely.
1:00:48So I switched to--
1:00:53I was a huge Google Chrome fan.
1:00:55And then I switched to Safari for all the reasons
1:00:59that I mentioned in the article.
1:01:00I don't want to go over those again.
1:01:02So let me just talk to you, Myke, about Safari.
1:01:05Please do.
1:01:06So my main reason is actually three reasons.
1:01:10- My main reason is three reasons.
1:01:13- Yes, it's a main reason in three parts.
1:01:16- Okay.
1:01:18- Okay, iCloud tabs, really nicely integrated
1:01:23with the system.
1:01:24I love the simplicity.
1:01:26I don't have to do anything there.
1:01:28They are one of the fastest and most reliable parts
1:01:33of iCloud.
1:01:34So congratulations to the engineer who wrote iCloud tabs.
1:01:39The second spotlight suggestions in the Safari address bar on iOS and I guess also on Yosemite
1:01:44so I don't know for sure.
1:01:47I really like the suggestions for websites and maps directions.
1:01:53I especially like spotlight suggestions for Wikipedia entries.
1:01:59That's so helpful.
1:02:01Yeah, exactly.
1:02:02like the first, like I want to know when someone was born and like spotlight suggestions in
1:02:08Safari like they give you the first like two sentences and most of the time those are enough.
1:02:15I don't even have to open Wikipedia. Or if I want to, you know, Google someone's name,
1:02:22I don't have to see Google because Safari takes me directly to Wikipedia if I want to
1:02:27tap the page, which is handy.
1:02:29And the third reason, obviously, is better support for extensions.
1:02:35I want to be able to use all these new extensions that can interact with the contents of a web
1:02:41page, because those are really practical for me.
1:02:47Because I don't basically use my mic anymore, so that's not really a joke anymore, it's
1:02:51the truth, I'm using my iPad, so, I mean, whatever, right?
1:02:56And I want to be able to do stuff.
1:02:59And on the Mac it's really easy if you want to say, print a page to PDF or like clip a
1:03:06web page to Evernote or to Pinterest or other services that take content from web pages
1:03:13and save it elsewhere.
1:03:15And on iOS I need extensions for this.
1:03:18And since iOS 8 there's been a great collection of new apps and extensions that integrate
1:03:27only with Safari.
1:03:28So this is a nice benefit for me because I can use stuff like PDF converter from Readdle
1:03:35to generate PDFs.
1:03:37The other extensions that you mentioned Myke, those are awesome.
1:03:41So yeah, these are the main reasons.
1:03:43There are other little touches that I like, like the bookmarks menu with the huge large
1:03:49icons, the favicons, whatever, those are really handy.
1:03:53And I like the Safari Reader feature, especially when I go to websites for music lyrics, which
1:04:01tend to be awful and terrible, and my god, who designs those websites, I don't know.
1:04:07With Safari Reader I can get a cleaner visualization of lyrics, which I like.
1:04:13So I can sing better and I can practice my English and my songs.
1:04:19So yeah, I really like Safari.
1:04:22I think it's my favorite Apple app on iOS.
1:04:27So I think they're all valid things and like, you know, the extensions thing is what makes
1:04:31me sad.
1:04:32But I think some of the things that I like about Chrome, they don't exist in Safari,
1:04:36right?
1:04:37So like that's, if I like those things as much as I think I do, which is, you know,
1:04:42of the main reasons I use Chrome. I kind of have to deal with one thing or the
1:04:46other. I either have to deal with the sub-par extension support because
1:04:52there's nothing Google can do about some of it, or I have to kind of deal with
1:04:58losing features from my web browser. And like some of them, like the X
1:05:04callback URL stuff, it would frustrate me so much. Like just on a daily basis, like
1:05:12to have it and because I rely on it which is funny that now what is
1:05:17happening to this show I am now relying on.
1:05:24Can I ask you a question Myke? So do you think that I mean because you do
1:05:30most of your work at your Mac so you use all these desktop web apps in Chrome.
1:05:37You know what Federico I actually don't know if that's true I do a lot like but
1:05:40it's not most, it's still not most. I'm out and about a lot, I still do a significant
1:05:46amount of work from my iPhone.
1:05:49OK, so, if you didn't do a lot on the Mac or if Safari on the Mac had better support
1:05:59for Google stuff, would you also use Chrome on iOS or would you switch to Safari?
1:06:05I think I would be more inclined to try it.
1:06:08If Apple came out today or Google came out today
1:06:12and they were like, it's totally fixed guys, go crazy.
1:06:16I would try Safari out and I'm more,
1:06:18like I would give it more of a go.
1:06:21- Yeah, I asked-- - Because that is
1:06:22the main sticking point for me.
1:06:23- Yeah. - It's like I need,
1:06:25I need it to be perfect.
1:06:26I can't have problems in it because basically
1:06:30our business runs in Google Drive.
1:06:33Like so many points rely on it.
1:06:36- And on iOS you have native apps for Google stuff.
1:06:40So you don't really need Chrome on iOS
1:06:42for the web apps part that you have on the Mac.
1:06:46- No, or I just wanna say just for the point of complaining,
1:06:49still have not been updated for the sixes.
1:06:52- Yeah, it's super gross.
1:06:54- I do not understand what Google are doing.
1:06:56Like I cannot fathom why it hasn't been done yet.
1:06:59Like I can't, I don't get it.
1:07:01I just don't get it.
1:07:02- Yeah, that's weird.
1:07:03It's like Spotify, still not updated for the iPhone 6.
1:07:06- Like what is going on?
1:07:07Like what is going on?
1:07:08- I mean, I can understand like the first few weeks
1:07:11you say, okay, yeah, developers didn't have the time.
1:07:14I mean, it's kinda Christmas now.
1:07:16- But you know, we're talking about a company
1:07:19with the resources of Google.
1:07:21- Google and Spotify.
1:07:22- But like especially Google.
1:07:25- Especially Google, yeah.
1:07:26- It's like Apple not doing it.
1:07:28- Yeah.
1:07:29- You know?
1:07:30It's insane anyway.
1:07:31But yeah, I mean, you know, the Google Drive stuff is the biggest point.
1:07:36But and then the other points are just like conveniences that I like about Chrome over Safari.
1:07:41But yeah, there you go.
1:07:44That's why.
1:07:44Very nice.
1:07:47This episode of Connected is also brought to you by Iconic.
1:07:51I'd love to tell you about Iconic.
1:07:52It's a very cool coffee table book.
1:07:54It's a book all about Apple.
1:07:55The background of it is that back in 2009, a guy named Jonathan Zuffi collected and
1:08:01photographed pretty much every single Apple product ever made since 1976 and produced
1:08:07this stunning coffee table book. It's called ICONIC, a photographic tribute to Apple innovation.
1:08:14If there was ever a perfect gift for the Apple fan this holiday season, this is it. 350 beautifully
1:08:20designed pages and hundreds of fantastic photos of basically every product Apple has ever
1:08:26made. Every desktop, laptop, iDevice, printer, even the old gaming devices. It's all in here
1:08:32and I'm going to guarantee that you're going to see some products that maybe you didn't even know
1:08:35Apple made. I know that I felt that way when I looked through the book. I was like, "Oh,
1:08:39here's some weird stuff in beige boxes that Steven probably knows all about," but I didn't.
1:08:44There's an amazing chapter in there about prototypes. There's even a chapter all about
1:08:48the packaging, which was one of my personal favorites about the book. It's to look through
1:08:52and see all of the boxes because I'm one of those Apple box hoarders and I have
1:08:55like just every box of every iPad every iPod I've ever owned and just you know
1:09:00all that kind of stuff and I was flicking through the books and seeing
1:09:04like I was able to point out the products from my history so like there's
1:09:06my iPod and they even had a picture of a pink iPod mini in there right that was
1:09:10the device that got me into this stuff looking through all the beautiful photos
1:09:14of the newer stuff the new iPhones you know the iPods as it goes through
1:09:20History.
1:09:31Iconic also includes a forward by Steve Wozniak and hundreds of amazing quotes from other
1:09:35Apple pundits.
1:09:36It really is something.
1:09:37The book comes in a few different versions, including a version in a bookcase that looks
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1:09:50Pros.
1:09:51That's crazy.
1:09:52I'm being totally serious.
1:09:53It's really worth seeing.
1:09:55If you go to iconicbook.com you can take a look at it.
1:09:58You can order the classic edition at Amazon, but if you decide you want the classic plus,
1:10:01special or ultimate editions, enter the code "connected" when you check out for a 10% discount.
1:10:06That's iconicbook.com promo code "connected".
1:10:09Thanks to iconic book for supporting this week's episode.
1:10:12What about that, right?
1:10:14It's seriously maybe the favorite book.
1:10:17I have one and I gotta say it's full of macks but man is it a great, great book.
1:10:24I want the glowing one man, that's what I want.
1:10:27I wish I would have waited, I want something that's gonna glow at me.
1:10:32Pretty cool right?
1:10:33Pretty cool.
1:10:34Pretty cool, yeah.
1:10:35So today widgets.
1:10:37Oh.
1:10:38Apple, what are you doing?
1:10:41Okay.
1:10:42So, friend of the network and um...
1:10:46Previous sponsor on last week's episode.
1:10:48Previous sponsor and really, really friend to the world.
1:10:53Greg Pierce, the developer of Drafts, issued some tweets on the Twitter social network
1:11:01and basically it boils down to his Today extension which allowed you to create like new notes
1:11:08or open the app directly from today.
1:11:12Apparently Apple is not going to allow him to move forward with that.
1:11:15And furthermore, basically the today view, from what he has been told, is for glanceable
1:11:24information not for interaction.
1:11:26And so he expects that Evernote's extension, which if you have installed, allows you to
1:11:33create a new note or a new audio recording, really helpful stuff, not so much allowed
1:11:39anymore apparently.
1:11:40is not awesome because because because Apple has allowed this crazy people to
1:11:51run up review happen and this is like a month after the peacock drama right so
1:11:56yes yes peacock shipped with a basically a version of peacock that ran in today
1:12:00and they say no you can't do it the developer says no I can't do it and then
1:12:07the internet exploded and then Apple said oh no you can stay it's not a
1:12:11problem and it's very back and forth and very not cool so yeah so Federico of out
1:12:18of us I think you are using them kind of using today widgets the most like I
1:12:23think Myke also uses yeah I use them a lot as well I don't use the drafts one
1:12:29I don't know why I'm looking at it now and oh there's some buttons in here guys
1:12:35"I cannot believe they've allowed these buttons!"
1:12:39A couple of weeks ago, Nito was removed from the App Store.
1:12:45And that one I kind of get, because it created a fake keyboard.
1:12:49So it's like, "Okay guys, come on now. I understand what you're doing,
1:12:53but how did you ever think that they were going to let you do this?
1:12:56If Apple didn't let you have a keyboard, don't create a keyboard."
1:13:00But the frustrating thing for them is they were allowed in the store,
1:13:04and it didn't hide anything.
1:13:06Like this is our app, our app creates a keyboard.
1:13:08These are our screenshots that show the keyboard
1:13:11in Notifications Center that we have created.
1:13:14So where that app maybe wasn't the smartest thing to do,
1:13:19it makes sense in a way maybe why Apple
1:13:23should have had a problem with it initially.
1:13:25But now we've got a scenario where there is,
1:13:30basically this widget, it allows you to create
1:13:34a new draft or create a new draft from what's on your clipboard?
1:13:40Like, what is going on here?
1:13:43Why is this a problem?
1:13:44I don't understand.
1:13:45What really concerns me is not just about the fact
1:13:52that Apple approves and then rejects an app.
1:13:56That concerns me.
1:13:57But the worst part for me is that in both Peacock's and Draft's
1:14:01case, these are apps that Apple featured on the App Store with banners and feature sections.
1:14:11Like there was a person who put the app into a section to promote it to millions of people
1:14:17and there's another person at Apple who says, "No, this app is, we don't like it."
1:14:22So that shows a disconnect between review and editorial.
1:14:28Which shouldn't happen, shouldn't be the case, especially after Mr. Cook fired poor Scott
1:14:35Forstall to focus on collaboration and now Forstall is, you know, without a job and there's
1:14:41no collaboration between teams in this specific case about the App Store.
1:14:46Maybe he's building a special network.
1:14:48Yeah, maybe.
1:14:50Maybe it's behind the new... did you guys see the new wire thing?
1:14:53Oh, I downloaded it.
1:14:55I haven't tried it.
1:14:58So yeah, it is weird. I can understand why Nito, with a fake keyboard, I kinda get why
1:15:06that's kinda strange. I can understand why Apple may want to pull that kind of app. But
1:15:14all these other apps that were previously approved, features promoted by Apple on Twitter,
1:15:23Facebook page, on the App Store, and now they gotta remove these features? That's kinda
1:15:28worrying. That's not a good sign. And you guys asked why is this happening? So I got
1:15:38a bunch of theories on Twitter last night. Basically one of the leading theories seems
1:15:46to be that because the glances on the upcoming Apple Watch will be similar to widgets, the
1:15:54idea is that Apple wants some consistency between widgets on iOS and widgets on the
1:16:00Apple Watch.
1:16:01This is all a theory, so don't be upset at me.
1:16:06I didn't come up with a theory.
1:16:07The problem with that theory is then you allow Peacock back in.
1:16:09Exactly.
1:16:10And Peacock is like, it's the worst possible thing because it's just all buttons.
1:16:16It's a sea of buttons, right?
1:16:18Which is too big for like, oh.
1:16:23- And it wouldn't make any sense anyway
1:16:24to enforce this kind of consistency,
1:16:28forced consistency between devices that are different.
1:16:31I mean, of course I want to be able to have
1:16:33a different widget and a different app on my iPad
1:16:36because the screen is bigger
1:16:37and I want to have different widgets on the iPhone
1:16:40and I want to have glances on the Apple Watch.
1:16:42I want to have software that makes sense
1:16:44that is unique to each platform
1:16:46And if anything remotely close to this theory
1:16:50is the case at Apple, that's seriously misguided, I think.
1:16:53And it doesn't make much sense.
1:16:55And there are a bunch of other theories,
1:16:58like that Apple internally, they decided
1:17:02that the main problem is to either launch other apps.
1:17:06Like, Steven, for instance, you develop an app called Old Mac.
1:17:11And your app, Old Mac, is able to launch
1:17:13other apps such as Twitter, Facebook and Google Chrome because it's an application launcher.
1:17:19And now Apple goes to Steven and says "Hey Steven, you need to pull Alt Mac from the
1:17:22App Store because it can launch other apps." And you're like "Okay, I won't launch any
1:17:26other external app anymore. I will just launch my own app and that's fine." In Draft's case,
1:17:33the problem is that not only does it launch Drafts, but it pre-populates a screen with
1:17:40content, which is the clipboard, this is a theory that if Drafts was only able to launch the app and
1:17:47restore its original state without adding any new content, without switching automatically to the
1:17:54Drafts creation screen, that would be okay. But again, this is a theory and even if it's true,
1:17:59doesn't make any practical sense to remove this functionality from an application on the App Store.
1:18:06I honestly am coming up short with excuses.
1:18:10It's confusing and Apple should have a clear policy, especially because developers are
1:18:15investing time to create this stuff.
1:18:18People like Greg and like James Thompson of Peacock, they spend time creating these widgets
1:18:25and all of a sudden they're not okay anymore.
1:18:28And there's all this back and forth and it's really not cool.
1:18:31Right.
1:18:32from Apple's own language in the developer documents being vague. I mean
1:18:36in the iOS developer library they say you know you should
1:18:42design a simple streamlined UI that highlights the information users are
1:18:46interested in. In general it's a good idea to limit the number of interactive
1:18:49items in a widget. Like that doesn't say what you can or can't do it just says
1:18:54you know should and good idea and and in that vacuum of really clear boundaries
1:19:02developers are gonna push the bar, right?
1:19:05They're gonna push things forward
1:19:07and try to make things more useful and more powerful
1:19:10until someone at Apple, to Myke's point,
1:19:13who maybe didn't even know this was a thing,
1:19:16steps in and says, "Hey, you know what?
1:19:18This is not really in the spirit of what we want."
1:19:21And it not only is obviously damaging to developers,
1:19:25like it's bad for the ecosystem.
1:19:27Like iOS needs to be more powerful
1:19:31and guys like Greg and his apps and extensions like Clips
1:19:36where I can have sort of not really a multi clipboard
1:19:40but have a place to easily shuttle things around.
1:19:43Those make the iPhone and iPad more useful
1:19:47and more powerful.
1:19:49And Apple stripping that away limits
1:19:53what their devices can do.
1:19:54These devices are only as good as the software
1:19:56that runs on them, period.
1:19:58And to make that dumb down from what it could be,
1:20:03like it's, you know, what was so great,
1:20:05what is so great about today widgets
1:20:07is they are completely optional, right?
1:20:09Like if someone never knows that about drafts
1:20:12or never knows about some of these widgets
1:20:14that can do crazy things,
1:20:15like Apple isn't polluting or complicating iOS itself,
1:20:20but those tools and those apps should be available
1:20:23for those of us who want to use them.
1:20:25Because, you know, it's our device,
1:20:27We can add widgets and we can add things and do crazy things.
1:20:30And that's fine.
1:20:31Give us the option is really a win-win for Apple.
1:20:34Power users get what they want without Apple itself
1:20:39cluttering up iOS.
1:20:41And instead, they're saying, oh no, this doesn't work for us.
1:20:44We don't want those CF buttons, so let's step back
1:20:49on this rule.
1:20:50And my guess is that this isn't over.
1:20:53I think that either way, I think Apple will clear up
1:20:56the language and they will either come down on this hard and say no you can't
1:21:00do these things or they're gonna they're gonna do what Apple normally does in
1:21:04the situation is after a while they'll say okay okay public you're right you
1:21:09know we're gonna we're gonna allow this but sort of do it begrudgingly but it's
1:21:15like another example like the longer we do this show and longer I write about
1:21:18this like there's so many reasons why I don't want to be a developer and like
1:21:22This is one of them.
1:21:23Like, oh, I put all this time in this thing.
1:21:25And now I've got to shelve it because a rule changed somewhere
1:21:29with a middle manager at Apple.
1:21:31My understanding is that, as you said, there's some people at Apple,
1:21:38like high-level managers, who are philosophically
1:21:42against the idea of using widgets as launchers of any kind
1:21:47because they envisioned widgets as a display of a short bit of information.
1:21:55But that also, if that's the case, at least what I heard, you know, if that's the case,
1:22:02even the WWDC widget didn't really help to reinforce that kind of vision.
1:22:10Because at WWDC they showed an eBay widget to bid on items.
1:22:14It wasn't exactly a lightweight widget to display a short amount of information.
1:22:19It was a full-on utility in Notification Center and it was not about notifications for today.
1:22:24And it had a button in it!
1:22:27So I think that Apple, they may be against the idea of people using launchers to replicate
1:22:34the home screen experience.
1:22:35They may be against the idea of using buttons and apps and widgets to launch other apps
1:22:42and stuff, but I think it's too late to limit iOS 8 widgets to the functionality that Apple
1:22:50may be envisioning. I think it is too late because this is not just about a bunch of
1:22:54indie developers. This is not just about drafts or Pcalc or other apps from small companies
1:23:03and small independent studios. Take a look at a widget something like Evernote, for instance,
1:23:08which is full of buttons, it's able to create new notes from the today widget, and not only
1:23:15new blank notes, but Evernote can also add a checkmark to a note as you tap a button
1:23:21in Notification Center.
1:23:23So Evernote is a big company and there are many other examples of big studios, big developers,
1:23:28big name applications using widgets to launch and do stuff.
1:23:34So it may be too late and of course Apple cannot do the thing where they say "ok, yeah
1:23:39Evernote and Facebook and all these other big guys, they can and you guys cannot".
1:23:44So I think we will see some clarification but I hope that they will just back off and
1:23:51just allow this kind of functionality.
1:23:53I think the problem is now they've let it get away from them and that's the problem.
1:24:03the problem. Anywho, I mean it's out in the market right like if you come out of
1:24:09the gate with iOS 8 and said hey today widgets like these are the very clear
1:24:13boundaries of what you can do like then that's fine right if a developer steps
1:24:16over that line and Apple smacks them down like okay I get that right like you
1:24:21set the rule the developer broke the rule you don't allow it but when it's
1:24:25already in the store and and not it's not like one or two things and it's the
1:24:29Peacock thing in particular is pretty bad from like an Apple PR
1:24:34perspective because they came out and allowed it and now just two weeks later
1:24:38three weeks later they're saying oh you know I don't know if they've
1:24:42rendered a verdict on Peacock now but like similar things aren't allowed and
1:24:47that sort of like case-by-case developer by developer
1:24:52reviewer by reviewer type approach to this is just yeah it's not good I mean
1:24:57because it's it like you know draft is a big app.
1:25:01Peacock is a huge app like these these are well-known developers and well and well-known
1:25:05products and like I would not want to be a truly little little guy in this fight because
1:25:12maybe you get an exemption from Apple for your app but if you don't know anyone at Apple
1:25:17you can't convince them to do it like just just have the rules clearly defined and everybody
1:25:21can play by the rules and like in that structure great freedom is granted and that they need
1:25:27to get on the ball and clarify what they're gonna let people do.
1:25:33Yeah, I think the problem is that Apple, honestly, the problem is that Apple doesn't have clear
1:25:39guidelines on widgets.
1:25:41They don't even know themselves what they want or what they are wrong on the apps.
1:25:45So there's one guy who said, "Yeah, this is not cool."
1:25:47And the other guy says, "Yeah, this is cool."
1:25:50Which is troublesome.
1:25:52And I wonder if...
1:25:53It may be a problem.
1:25:54Maybe they didn't foresee people using it like this.
1:25:57I wonder sometimes, when Apple's developing new things, it's generally very small groups
1:26:05of people.
1:26:06I fear that Apple has a little bit of group think in some of this stuff, and they say,
1:26:12"Oh, no."
1:26:13They don't like the idea of peak algorithm drafts and today never even cross anyone's
1:26:18mind.
1:26:19that's happened, they're like, "Oh, crud."
1:26:22You know, like, if it's a surprise to Apple
1:26:25that people are trying to do this,
1:26:27like, that's the worst case scenario in my mind,
1:26:29because it's clear there's something wrong
1:26:31with the way that they're going about
1:26:33adding these features to their software.
1:26:35But even if that's not the case,
1:26:39it's definitely unsettling.
1:26:40And like, another example of,
1:26:42the App Store is so big, it's so popular,
1:26:45these, this thing has a life beyond what Cupertino dreams up and they just don't manage it well
1:26:52when this sort of thing happens and they need to be better at it.
1:26:57Federico, to make us feel a little bit better, can you tell people where they find the show notes?
1:27:05Are you sure about that? Yeah, because I've been thinking about, you know, I've been thinking
1:27:11Like, what if I had to explain to my dad what show notes are?
1:27:18What would I tell my parents about show notes?
1:27:22Why do I spend time telling people where the show notes are when I cannot
1:27:28describe show notes to the rest of the population of this planet?
1:27:33So basically, every time we get together, me and Steven and Myke,
1:27:38we assemble this collection of links, right?
1:27:43We talk about stuff, and then to prove that the stuff we talk
1:27:46about exists, we link to it.
1:27:50And so basically, what you want to do
1:27:52is you want to take your Sony VAIO notebook,
1:27:58or I guess also an Acer or an HP--
1:28:03Chrome book, maybe a Chromebook?
1:28:05No, no, those are too fancy.
1:28:06You know, we like, we roll old school with this.
1:28:11You go to the web browser, I would say Mozilla, Firefox would be okay.
1:28:19Because it's open source and it's got themes.
1:28:22So you go to the web and you go to the website, which is relay.fm, and you type a slash, which
1:28:31which is the little line character,
1:28:34and you add "Connected", which is the name of the show that we do.
1:28:38And then you add another slash character,
1:28:41and you type 16 as a number.
1:28:44- The numbers, yeah. - Because apparently,
1:28:47we've been doing this new show on Real AFM for 16 episodes now.
1:28:52And so when you go to the page,
1:28:55you will find our photos as a confirmation
1:28:57that we are actual people talking, you know?
1:29:00This is not a computer-generated voice.
1:29:03At least I hope that you two are humans as well.
1:29:07And you will find the show notes, which are called notes.
1:29:11They're called show notes, but actually it's just like a show list of links,
1:29:16which is great. Sometimes there's a picture.
1:29:19This is getting more difficult every time. I hate you, man.
1:29:27Your dad is definitely confused now.
1:29:29No, no, dad, please don't be confused.
1:29:31I can come home and teach you how to browse the show notes.
1:29:35So the show notes are, the show notes are an essential piece of the relay experience.
1:29:43And you should be able to enjoy the full relay FM experience as Myke and Steven intended.
1:29:52And me, I will just provide with the instructions
1:29:57to get to the show notes.
1:29:59And we promise as a network, right?
1:30:04That we will always do,
1:30:06we are renewing our commitment to the show notes.
1:30:09- Yes, renew commitment.
1:30:10- Right?
1:30:11So yeah, that's how you find the show notes.
1:30:15Which is a list of links,
1:30:16but see, you know, you gotta click them
1:30:18to view the source page in your web browser.
1:30:23- Thanks, Teach.
1:30:24I appreciate the explanation.
1:30:27If you'd like to find us online,
1:30:29other than those show notes,
1:30:30which now you definitely know how to get to,
1:30:32we're all on Twitter,
1:30:33the perfect social network for all of us.
1:30:36I am @imike, I am Y-K-E,
1:30:38for Rico's at the DGVITICCI.
1:30:41Steven is @ismh.
1:30:43The show is @_ConnectedFM,
1:30:45and it's the only account that's updated.
1:30:48Well actually no, Jason does kind of,
1:30:50he's taken the upgrade account
1:30:52and does stuff with it, which is great.
1:30:53- Yeah, I gotta fire the other hosts.
1:30:56- It's pretty much my fault, completely.
1:30:58But hey ho, it's all good.
1:31:01- Tally ho.
1:31:03- Steven writes at 512pixels.net,
1:31:05Better Eco writes maxstories.net,
1:31:09and I host many shows on Real AFM.
1:31:11Thank you so much for listening,
1:31:14especially if you listen this far.
1:31:16Like if you go this far,
1:31:18I'm very proud of you because you know I do this bit every week and if you know
1:31:22you've clearly stayed to see if there's anything special at the end and
1:31:25there is something special special for you Kyle thanks so much for listening
1:31:30we'll be back next time bye bye.
1:31:34Adios.
1:31:35Adios.
1:31:36Oh thanks to our sponsors too Linda, Hover, ICONic, we love you.
1:31:40Awesome people.