9: A War of Semantics


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:07   Welcome back to Connected on Relay FM. This is episode 9. Today's episode of Connected

00:00:14   is brought to you by Dash. Create beautiful dashboards with just a few clicks. Text expander

00:00:21   from Smile. Type more with less effort and Squarespace. Where a better web starts with

00:00:27   your website. My name is Myke Hurley, today I am joined by Mr. Steven Hackett. Hi Steven.

00:00:32   Hola, Senors. Where were you at that moment? Under the desk or something?

00:00:39   It's fine. Hey. Hey buddy, and Mr Federico Vittucci.

00:00:43   Hey guys. How you doing, Teach?

00:00:45   I'm doing good. What is Steven doing? I don't know.

00:00:48   You're like fixing your old Macs behind you. What are you doing?

00:00:51   No, my phone went off in the corner of my eye so I looked over and was trying to read

00:00:58   the notification as Myke called my name.

00:01:01   And now we've drawn attention to it so I just feel weird.

00:01:04   Do you have Yosemite installed on your computer in front of you?

00:01:08   The computer in front of me is running Mountain Lion, my laptop on the desk is running Yosemite.

00:01:14   What do we call it?

00:01:15   Yo-S-10 or something.

00:01:16   - Yo S10 or something. - I don't know.

00:01:17   I re-listened to episode eight of the show

00:01:20   and we should never speak of it again.

00:01:24   - I had a great time last week.

00:01:25   - That was great by the way guys.

00:01:27   - No, it was fine.

00:01:28   - Especially the ending mic.

00:01:29   - Thank you.

00:01:30   - Yeah. - Thank you.

00:01:31   - Yeah. (laughs)

00:01:32   - It's a call out to our brothers in arms, right?

00:01:34   - Yeah, sure. - Yeah, that's kind of

00:01:35   what I was going for.

00:01:36   Federico, didn't you have some follow up for us?

00:01:38   Like some very, very angry follow up?

00:01:40   - It was Yo S10 by the way.

00:01:42   - Yo S10. - Yo S10.

00:01:43   - I think I do, Myke, actually.

00:01:44   Yeah, because you guys did mention that...

00:01:47   - It was about the golden master thing, wasn't it?

00:01:49   - Yeah, just a little thing, you know,

00:01:51   that on the App Store, when you download the Yosemite GM,

00:01:55   it's not actually a GM, at least according to Apple,

00:01:58   it's a GM candidate.

00:02:00   I don't know what that means,

00:02:02   but it feels like it should be said, you know,

00:02:04   because it's not for iOS.

00:02:06   When you go to the developer center for iOS betas,

00:02:11   you get iOS GM, golden master release.

00:02:14   Whereas for Yosemite, Apple has done these GM candidates,

00:02:18   which seems like a different way of calling these things.

00:02:23   I don't know.

00:02:24   - I think we were joking about how there were like

00:02:26   multiple golden masters

00:02:28   and like how much more golden can the master get?

00:02:31   - Yeah, but it's weird because last week I thought,

00:02:33   okay, these are candidates for a GM release, right?

00:02:38   And that's why I told you that I had this follow up.

00:02:42   But now just today, a few hours before the show,

00:02:46   Apple has started approving Yosemite updates

00:02:49   for apps on the Mac App Store.

00:02:51   So there's already Pcalc on the Mac App Store

00:02:54   with Yosemite features.

00:02:55   So it seems like the GM candidate was actually a GM.

00:02:59   So it's a non-follow up.

00:03:02   I don't know, it's weird.

00:03:04   - That seems really strong to say

00:03:05   that Yosemite is coming tomorrow, right?

00:03:08   we are recording the day before an Apple event, which is awesome.

00:03:11   Uh, that seems like it's, it's very strong that it will arrive tomorrow then.

00:03:15   Right.

00:03:16   They're approving Yosemite apps.

00:03:17   Cause that's what they did with iOS 8, right?

00:03:19   They started approving things the day before and then everything went horribly

00:03:24   wrong. Um, like just terribly, terribly wrong.

00:03:28   Especially if you had a healthcare app.

00:03:30   Oh, just any app.

00:03:32   Really? Just any app at all.

00:03:34   You're just downloading forever and ever and ever.

00:03:37   Well anyway, there's Yosemite updates on the Mac App Store, so it could be tomorrow, could

00:03:44   be next week, I don't know.

00:03:46   Still, Peacock is a great update, by the way.

00:03:49   You guys should check it out.

00:03:50   It's got a widget.

00:03:51   It's really nice.

00:03:52   Boom.

00:03:53   Is that a widget on the first time?

00:03:55   Oh, God, don't even start it on widgets.

00:03:57   You're now going to have widgets on the dashboard and widgets in Notification Center.

00:04:02   Dashboard?

00:04:03   Dashboard's going away.

00:04:05   Not yet.

00:04:06   running yo s 10 we're just gonna call it now and I went I went to go look at I

00:04:14   went to go look at a dashboard widget and I clicked on it and I was logged out

00:04:17   of my computer nice nice I'd open by word documents I had like 19 Safari

00:04:25   Windows open and everything is gone it's like oh it's like a reset button no I

00:04:30   just wanted to track a package in a widget thank you Apple I can't recreate

00:04:35   I cannot make it do it again.

00:04:37   You know what you should do, Steven?

00:04:39   You should restore your Mac.

00:04:41   Oh!

00:04:43   Is that a bell?

00:04:45   Is that your little thing, Myke?

00:04:47   What's the name?

00:04:49   Your little desk bell

00:04:51   that you keep?

00:04:53   It's just a bell.

00:04:55   Is it like one of those bells that you have

00:04:57   in hotel receptions?

00:04:59   Yeah, like one of those.

00:05:01   Except it didn't sound very good.

00:05:03   again? No I just don't have a very good bell. Can you enjoy it twice? Yeah. Oh that was terrible.

00:05:09   Hang on, wait. That's the worst bell in the world. Is it sitting on top of a pillow? Like what is

00:05:14   wrong with it? I never said it was a good bell, I just said it was a bell. Okay, I mean not to be

00:05:19   that guy but we have a business now, business that makes money. I would say that we can buy you a

00:05:23   bell. Yes. You did bell. It has been approved by your co-founder. Yeah. Let's do follow-up.

00:05:32   Still pause for the sound effect as if we're on the I know you do I notice that

00:05:36   Follow up. They got did it for you

00:05:39   Dude in your Batman voice

00:05:42   That's really creepy the incredible

00:05:46   The incredible Rob Lewis has come and struck again with another pebble watch face this time of the relay logo

00:05:54   So happy you're so that's the one you're wearing it's it replaced the 512 pebble

00:06:01   face, watch face. Jason Snell should use the 512 one because he's into

00:06:07   all Macs. I kind of feel bad and good about this because I may have direct

00:06:13   messaged Rob and asked him to do this. He's like "can you make me a really logo one?"

00:06:18   and then he did it. I love Rob, he's just the best. Now I love Rob too so much.

00:06:24   I did not buy a Pebble as a follow-up from last week. I talked about it on the show

00:06:27   But why does everybody know this Rob guy and I don't because he's awesome because he's awesome and you're just not paying attention

00:06:34   He made it Federico. He made a Super Mario pebble watch face look on his website

00:06:39   Rob's the best. I love document. Oh, he follows me. It's Rob with two B's. Uh-huh. Everyone follows you

00:06:47   So

00:06:51   Pebble stuff is still around we do want to talk a little bit about the health app

00:06:55   I didn't put any links in the show notes, but we've gotten a ton of feedback from people saying hey the hell that

00:07:01   Worked really well for me. I'm super happy for you

00:07:04   Like I really am you were super lucky because I like I like the feedback where somebody complains

00:07:10   But I seen this a couple of times and then like tweets it's like a day later. It's like yeah, it's broken now

00:07:16   They're like, oh man, it's working fine. And then it's like no wait, sorry

00:07:24   Well, I still haven't managed to get the health app to work for me

00:07:29   And trust me. I tried multiple apps

00:07:32   Especially when it comes to food tracking and sleep analysis, you know, um, I

00:07:38   It's just empty and I tried on iOS 8.0.2

00:07:43   So the stable version I tried on the

00:07:49   8.1 beta 1, 8.1 beta 2, I try to delete and reinstall

00:07:54   these apps that were showing issues

00:07:58   it's empty so

00:08:00   You know just I don't know what to think yet because it it's empty so

00:08:06   it's counting my steps and the flights of stairs that I

00:08:12   That I do every day

00:08:18   So yeah, I mean it's it's buggy like things

00:08:23   I've got had some luck with a couple apps and other apps don't do it and

00:08:27   Make you look at that and say like I'm sure there's bugs on Apple side

00:08:31   I'm sure there's bugs in third-party apps too. But like a point is that it doesn't

00:08:34   currently work the way Apple clearly wants it to and we might disagree on how serious of a problem that is

00:08:43   But it is a problem. I

00:08:47   I have not even bothered to use any of the Health App stuff just because it seems like

00:08:56   it's just a minefield right now.

00:09:01   It just seems like a terrible idea.

00:09:06   Indeed.

00:09:07   Not happy about it.

00:09:09   Yeah, and someone in the chat room, Decibel with no vowels, put a link in here of all

00:09:16   Recorded data and like this view is terrible. Like I don't know how to read this data at all

00:09:21   It's super super crazy and the same thing like when you go to

00:09:25   Enable an app. There's not like one overall like checkbox of allow this to talk to everything. It's like oh, there's

00:09:33   500 little

00:09:35   Individual toggles I have to switch to turn this on it's really really nuts

00:09:40   Apple

00:09:44   That's how I feel a lot of the time now like

00:09:47   Apple size

00:09:51   I feel like that there is a lot of negativity at the moment anyway

00:09:56   And I don't feel like I'm helping by like adding to it. But well, we should be objective, right?

00:10:02   I mean this health app was a

00:10:04   you know big publicity and there's a section on the website you can track your

00:10:08   your health values and then Apple launched these

00:10:13   This integration and then they had to pull apps from the app store because it was broken then they released

00:10:19   this

00:10:21   8.1.2 and nobody

00:10:23   Seemingly is able to to get these these values to work correctly

00:10:28   People are seeing duplicate data and you cannot transfer your data from one device to another

00:10:34   it seems like a giant mess honestly and

00:10:38   It should have been better, you know

00:10:43   Personally, and it could be, you know, it could be that it's just me, but I know that it's not just me, but for the sake of the argument, let's say that it's just Federico having issues with the L-TAP.

00:10:55   You know, I don't know how I could have an opinion when it's just an empty page.

00:11:04   Yeah, I mean it's empty, you know, it counts my steps and the flights of stairs that I do every day

00:11:10   which is not really useful because, you know, I know how many stairs I have.

00:11:13   And, yeah.

00:11:15   In the mansion. I mean, I'm having more issues, right, because I'm having reboots again.

00:11:22   At least one a day. Like, you should...

00:11:25   No, I can't even say it.

00:11:26   It's just for still my phone, right? I might as well just do that.

00:11:29   And it's just so frustrating. It's just so frustrating.

00:11:33   You know, I wanted to make this point right because I saw that we were talking about the

00:11:39   Earth app and the issues that you were having.

00:11:44   At WWDC in June there was a lot of, I would say, positive feedback for the new Apple,

00:11:50   you know, all these new features and developers were really happy about the announcements

00:11:54   of WWDC.

00:11:56   And now it seems like it's been a few months since WWDC and now developers are kind of

00:12:01   facing the reality that there's still a lot of stuff to fix with Apple.

00:12:05   And also users are kind of, you know, it's like waking up after that awesome party

00:12:10   from, uh, from last night, because it was so awesome last night.

00:12:13   And now it's the day after and you got a face, you know, maybe you drink, you know,

00:12:18   a little too much to drink and, and you don't feel so great and now you get all

00:12:22   these awesome features with iOS 8, but you know, some of them are kind of broken

00:12:25   and maybe it's not everything and it's not so great.

00:12:28   So you're stretching this metaphor, man.

00:12:31   Yeah, it's getting really specific.

00:12:34   Yeah, let's just not get into the details.

00:12:36   Anyway, um, you know what I'm saying, right?

00:12:40   Yeah.

00:12:40   I mean, it seems like everybody is a little more cautious.

00:12:44   The honeymoon period is over.

00:12:46   Yeah.

00:12:47   I would go on a honeymoon with Eddy Cue, honestly.

00:12:52   I did some exclusive Eddy Cue coverage today.

00:12:56   Oh yeah?

00:12:57   You should have tipped Tachnim.

00:12:59   I should have.

00:13:00   I really just took a picture of him from the verge and put it on my blog because I clearly

00:13:05   just don't care anymore.

00:13:06   You have a blog?

00:13:08   Oh, shut up.

00:13:11   So is 8.1 going to fix this?

00:13:16   Does anybody know?

00:13:18   Yes, for sure.

00:13:19   All of it.

00:13:20   I can tell you, according to my sources...

00:13:23   No, no, I don't...

00:13:24   Can I have big the beta running on your own?

00:13:28   We were sent a couple of screenshots of fixed iPhones.

00:13:32   No, I don't know, Steven.

00:13:35   Right now my health app is still empty.

00:13:41   Maybe it doesn't like Italy.

00:13:43   Maybe it doesn't like the metric system, which is the only real system, by the way.

00:13:48   But still, it's made in America, the iPhone.

00:13:52   It's made in China.

00:13:55   Designed in California.

00:13:56   Designed in California.

00:13:57   It could be as wrong as the people who design it.

00:14:01   My current iPhone case, which is a Spigen case, S-P-I-G-E-N.

00:14:06   Spigen case, I'm sorry?

00:14:10   Spigen.

00:14:11   It has on the print on the back of it, "Designed in Irvine, California.

00:14:15   Made in Korea."

00:14:16   Both of those are sadder.

00:14:20   A guy at work has one of those.

00:14:22   It's perfectly clear.

00:14:24   Like rubbery.

00:14:26   his is hard plastic yeah I don't like hard cases I'm still using the Apple

00:14:30   leather one so yeah we're talking about that soon my case has finally shipped my

00:14:35   silicone case I bought it on the day that I bought my iPhone and it's finally

00:14:40   on the way to me I bought a leather one I bought a blue one the leather one

00:14:44   doesn't have the grip that I want oh that's right if like we talked about

00:14:47   this yeah I want I want maximum grip because I have a huge mobile phone and

00:14:56   But like the Spigen one is like a like a rubbery silicon, but I went to the App Store and I

00:15:02   Felt the cases and and the level ones kind of slippery or like more slippery

00:15:08   So I wanted the silicon one and I'm getting a lovely bright blue one

00:15:13   And then I'm also thinking about buying a green one

00:15:16   All the colors mm-hmm I found my iPod mini

00:15:21   Yes, we should talk about that

00:15:23   So using it did you charge it up? Did you sync it? I charged it up

00:15:27   and it still had all my old music on it still works and

00:15:30   I've just turned it on now

00:15:33   screen is tiny

00:15:35   Still pink this health app work on the iPod health app totally works

00:15:39   Tracking my checking my fitness as we speak the lights on can you can you know your yes?

00:15:45   And I think it's working very well because that no battery power remains

00:15:50   Apparently it just means it's worn out batteries are like tires on a car. It's been off

00:15:54   Yeah, yeah, it's like it's like the tires on the DeLorean and the cave and back to the future three

00:16:01   I have to say though to hold this it feels fantastic

00:16:04   Yeah, it's like

00:16:07   It doesn't

00:16:09   It doesn't feel any different to like a current product if that makes sense like if this feels modern

00:16:15   Yeah, like it just did the element. Oh you feel the hard drive spin up in your hand

00:16:19   Well yeah, the weight of it is so heavy. The aluminium just feels really good and it's just

00:16:24   made well and it just it looks fantastic. I'm so happy that I did find it because I didn't think I

00:16:29   owned it anymore. I found it in a drawer. There's more to talk about what I found in this drawer on

00:16:36   virtual this week on Relay FM. That's how we do now. Yeah I'm just happy I found it. It's pink

00:16:43   still. I took a picture of it, put it on Instagram. Will you put that link in the show notes?

00:16:48   Yes, Steven, where can you find the show notes? Federico, jump in and tell it.

00:16:51   Oh god, people can go to the web and they can type relay.fm/connected/9.

00:17:00   That's it.

00:17:01   9 as a digit, not as a word.

00:17:04   I don't know what happens if you type the word, but you should know.

00:17:06   You get a 404, I'm sure.

00:17:08   Does the 404 still say that I spilled coffee into something?

00:17:11   Did it ever say that?

00:17:13   Yeah, it did say that. I asked for it to say that. I don't know if you knew that.

00:17:17   that's what I asked for. No, it is, it is saying take me back to civilization without a period.

00:17:22   Good grief. Oh, why do you... That's gonna be a ticket. So hold on, guys, I wanted to ask you,

00:17:29   I'm sorry, I was just, you know, thinking about this. So you two are using cases on your iPhones?

00:17:35   Yeah. Yeah. Both of you? Yeah. This is like a thing, right? Like everybody's getting a case for the

00:17:41   the iPhone 6 and again I don't know it's like Rob why is everybody putting a case

00:17:47   on his iPhone and I don't? For me at least it is the phone is slippery and I

00:17:56   keep saying that it's slippery. It is I've dropped mine twice in like three weeks

00:18:01   how can you? I don't know. It's slippery at least. I use mine like the percentage of time that I use my phone when

00:18:08   I'm walking around and the percent of time I use my phone not walking around

00:18:11   is crazy different. It's always like walking across the office or like

00:18:15   walking down the hallway like I use mine on the go a lot and it the the edges

00:18:22   there's nothing to hold on to. I'm sorry I believe you just don't get it because

00:18:29   I cannot imagine how can can it be slippery. My phone's a lot bigger as well. Maybe I just have

00:18:34   abnormally huge hands. Like I can't get my hands around the phone like seriously?

00:18:40   Well yeah well I mean I can but if I'm using I can't I can like hold it then

00:18:44   I can't really do much on it because I use I still and can use my iPhone 6 Plus

00:18:49   with one hand and I do every day. Talk about how long your fingers are.

00:18:55   The problem is my hands guys at this point. I still maintain that your hands

00:19:00   big enough to deal with the 6 Plus. Yeah but you have those fingers, Myke. That's

00:19:05   true, they do provide me with the grip that I need. Oh my goodness. There's some links in

00:19:12   here, one to Jason Snell's blog 6 Colors where he talks about using a case and

00:19:19   he's using one, I mean he talks about too that like the phone is curved on the

00:19:25   edges you know it on the 4 through 5s you had sort of a little wall around it

00:19:31   to hold on to and now you don't and it it is harder and you know I'm not I'm

00:19:36   kind of in and out of the case depending on like what I'm up to but um it's why

00:19:42   would you take the case off why would you put it on take it off well like I've

00:19:45   got sometimes it's nice to have it naked it doesn't make any sense I only ever

00:19:51   take the case off as like fidgeting. Yeah and like the one thing I really hate

00:19:55   about it is you get I have it right now if I look around the edge where the

00:20:00   leather meets the glass there's like little bits of crap everywhere and I

00:20:03   don't yeah this is this is new it seems to collect dust I've never had this

00:20:07   problem with an iPhone before and a case there's something about that the the

00:20:12   curved edges it seems to collect dust in the in the in the ridge and I never had

00:20:17   that problem with the mophie for example oh yeah you also use the mophie well I

00:20:22   don't anymore you guys are strange you couldn't use them well one I don't need

00:20:27   to because the battery life on my six plus is incredible but also you couldn't

00:20:30   put this thing in a mophie case but it would be a baseball bat so I'm just a

00:20:40   stupid guy using an iPhone without a case no no I'm like battery case no one's

00:20:45   saying you're stupid, you're just as Johnny I've intended, but you also have some sort

00:20:50   of like abnormally gripped hands or something in the end of it the phone does slip.

00:20:55   Federico, tell the truth. Can you climb up a wall with just your bare hands, Spider-Man

00:20:59   style? I can climb the Colosseum in Rome with just my hands.

00:21:04   Wow. You gotta outrun the lions. It's true. I would like to take a moment to thank our

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00:23:02   You can put all of that stuff on a Squarespace Cover Page.

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00:23:08   They have some great examples on the new Squarespace 7 website where you can see it, which is squarespace.com/7.

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00:23:34   Steven, you are a Squarespace user, have you been enjoying Squarespace 7?

00:23:38   I have, it's 512 runs on it.

00:23:41   Really, the coolest thing is to be able to click right on a post and fix a typo or edit

00:23:46   something without having to go to the backend separately.

00:23:48   It makes it really fast to jump in and make tweaks.

00:23:50   Seriously, you can do that on Squarespace?

00:23:52   It's really cool.

00:23:53   I'm sorry, it just caught my attention.

00:23:55   Yeah, it's no more backend, it's all there on site, right there.

00:24:00   Oh, that's really nice.

00:24:02   (laughing)

00:24:05   - Genuinely pleased that you're so happy about that.

00:24:07   That makes me--

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00:25:38   Topic 0A.

00:25:39   All's done.

00:25:40   0A.

00:25:41   Our topic numbering system has fallen apart. Visa working with Apple for Apple Pay in 2015

00:25:49   and there's a link to m.v3.co.uk, which is the most ridiculous URL I've ever read.

00:25:55   Well only because you don't believe in anything outside of America.

00:25:59   What's the story about?

00:26:01   Basically it's just some Visa representatives have come out on record to say that they're

00:26:07   working with Apple to roll out Apple Pay in Europe in 2015 on Visa terminals.

00:26:14   We have Visa and MasterCard here, so obviously this is only half of the battle, but Visa

00:26:19   basically monopolize all of the debit card space.

00:26:22   Rather than credit cards, Mastercard have a much

00:26:26   heavier credit card business than the debit card business.

00:26:31   But Visa do also do credit cards too.

00:26:35   But in the UK and in most of Europe,

00:26:37   debit cards prevail over credit cards.

00:26:40   It's not like in America, so money comes directly

00:26:42   over our bank accounts.

00:26:44   That's the same in Italy, right, Federico?

00:26:48   Yeah, I mean I do have a visa.

00:26:53   So they've come out to say that they're working on it, they're looking to support it.

00:26:57   I'm just very happy about it to hear this news. 2015 is not too bad, especially if it's going to be like Q1 or something like that.

00:27:05   I can live with that. Federico, I know that originally you were a bit like, "Ah, Apple Pay, I'm not going to use it."

00:27:12   Or you don't think people in Italy will use it. Has that changed at all for you?

00:27:15   you? I mean, because for me, I'm super excited. I think they will be adopted in the UK.

00:27:19   I am excited. I don't know if it will be adopted in Italy because if, you know,

00:27:25   Passbook is of any indication, it's basically non-existent.

00:27:29   Yeah, but I don't think like, what do you use? What can anyone use Passbook for? Really,

00:27:32   it was kind of... I know Apple made a big deal out of it, you know? They always do.

00:27:38   Yeah, I mean I use Passbook a few times a year. British Airways is fantastic. Their integration

00:27:47   with Passbook is incredible. Like I can do everything with just my phone in the airport.

00:27:52   My boarding pass only ever lives there. I use it to scan out to get through gates.

00:27:58   It shows all of the updates live with information about where the flight,

00:28:02   like the gate and stuff like that. But that's about it. And then kind of like for WWDC parties,

00:28:07   pretty much the only time I ever use Passbook but I I would find myself I

00:28:13   think using Apple pay quite a lot I don't think that it's going to make me

00:28:18   leave my wallet home though because if my phone runs out battery then I can't

00:28:26   pay for anything that's where you have the watch let's pay with the watch I

00:28:31   don't think you understand how the watch works I don't think you understand how

00:28:35   the watch works. Interesting. Interesting rebuttal. Here's my thought, guys.

00:28:41   Culturally, here in Italy, cash is still very very strong. We use cash every day

00:28:49   for small purchases, and I'm talking a couple of euros, for big purchases. I

00:28:54   bought my iPhone in cash. It sounds like you have to know good. No, see, because there's a like a

00:29:04   stigma right for Americans and also for I guess other European countries that are

00:29:08   doing stuff with cash it's like no good it's just completely normal here people

00:29:14   go to the ATM every day and we use coins we use cash we use you know and this is

00:29:21   why mobs exist in Italy everybody's walking around with thousands of dollars

00:29:26   I don't know.

00:29:28   Anyway, cache is still absolutely normal here.

00:29:33   Cache is king.

00:29:36   And so my problem is that even young generations like me, we are used to using cache.

00:29:45   So it's not one of those things that it's like, okay, my parents are used to the old

00:29:49   system but I'm a young guy and I want to use fancy new tech.

00:29:53   Young people here use cache because it's normal.

00:29:55   So I struggle to imagine when you gotta use the credit card, it's usually at least based

00:30:02   on my experience of you know 26 years in Italy, when you take your credit card out of your

00:30:09   wallet it's because you gotta make a big, you know at least a big or important purchase.

00:30:16   I just don't see the phone being so necessary or much more secure than the current system

00:30:24   because we already have been using chip and pin for like a decade at least. So it doesn't

00:30:32   seem like a big deal to me. The technology seems amazing. I do want to try it. I just

00:30:38   struggle to imagine everybody using it here because culturally we are different from the

00:30:44   people that made Apple Pay in America. And it's a different scenario here.

00:30:49   Well, Marigold Culture is currently not set up for Apple Pay either, but yeah, I get your

00:30:53   But they're switching to a new system so they could more easily jump on it.

00:30:58   Do you have contactless payment in Italy?

00:31:01   I feel like you do.

00:31:02   Kind of like at McDonald's.

00:31:03   Yeah.

00:31:04   Yeah.

00:31:05   I tried it.

00:31:06   I remain super...

00:31:07   It was very nice.

00:31:08   It was very nice.

00:31:10   You know, I struggle to imagine a scenario where everybody in Italy is which is to Apple

00:31:17   Pay because we don't have this desire or at least this wish for a better credit card system

00:31:23   because we have cash and because the current credit card system is already

00:31:27   pretty, I wouldn't say stable, but at least more secure than what Americans

00:31:32   have. So it could be that maybe Apple Pay is so amazing it will catch on because

00:31:38   it's much much better than Passbook. I just feel that in the short term we will

00:31:44   have a pretty similar scenario. It makes for a very nice demo,

00:31:48   It's a really attractive application on the iPhone. It's probably awesome. It will be awesome for people outside of Europe

00:31:55   Maybe it will be non-existent here. I don't know. We'll see. I'm you know, I'm curious to try it just skeptical

00:32:03   There you go, I remain very excited

00:32:08   Steven Steven, what what do you what do you remain I

00:32:16   remain hopeful

00:32:18   Because and a lot of people have said this that at least here in the States like there's already a move towards

00:32:24   Something better than like plastic cards with the magnetic strip that you hand a perfect stranger

00:32:28   Seems like maybe there's room for improvement there and with that coming, you know, hopefully apples got good timing and

00:32:35   It will sort of fall into place

00:32:39   Will that mean that I can use it at little coffee shops down the street probably maybe?

00:32:46   I think like a lot of things like this is going to end up in big places and filter its

00:32:50   way down.

00:32:51   I'm hopeful, but I'm not going to hang my hat on saying that it's going to take over

00:32:55   the world.

00:32:56   There you go.

00:32:58   There you go.

00:33:00   Steven, tell me about the Apple Watch in history.

00:33:04   Yeah, so there was an article, well, a transcript I should say, in Business Insider.

00:33:12   Johnny Ive was interviewed as part of the Vanity Fair Summit, which is actually pretty

00:33:18   interesting like they've done some other interviews and they're always really good.

00:33:22   So Johnny Ive was there last week and the whole transcript is well worth reading, but

00:33:30   the very last like question and answer at the end was really interesting.

00:33:34   And so someone in the crowd asked Johnny Ive, "Do you see yourself moving beyond consumer

00:33:38   electronics?"

00:33:40   And he responded by saying, I do see the watch as they move away from consumer electronics.

00:33:46   And that really, like really jumped out at me.

00:33:50   You know, Apple predated like the way we think of consumer electronics and the way people

00:33:55   thought of consumer electronics in 1976, when Apple was founded, very different things like

00:34:04   before the personal computer consumer electronics looked one way.

00:34:10   And then personal computers really took over consumer electronics, like anything we consider

00:34:14   as a consumer electronic today really is a computer in a lot of ways.

00:34:18   And if you look at the other companies that were around then, and who helped make that

00:34:24   possible, obviously it wasn't just Apple, it was Microsoft, but Dell and HP and all

00:34:28   these other hardware guys.

00:34:30   And all those companies are in trouble, because they don't have a way past the personal computer.

00:34:38   Apple has that with the iPhone and iPad, right?

00:34:40   Steve Jobs said that the iPad ushered in the post-PC era, and we're actually going to talk

00:34:44   a lot about that here in a second.

00:34:47   But the tablet and the phone was Apple's way out of the personal computer, extending past

00:34:52   the personal computer, but still within the universe of consumer electronics.

00:34:57   And now Johnny Ive's on stage with an Apple Watch saying, "This is beyond consumer electronics

00:35:02   even.

00:35:03   This is not just beyond the PC.

00:35:04   It's not beyond post-PC.

00:35:05   It's something completely different."

00:35:07   And that's a ginormous thing to say.

00:35:12   I would love to know what Johnny Iyer's definition of a consumer electronic is, because the Apple

00:35:20   Watch is electronic and it's sold to consumers.

00:35:24   Like I don't know what more, like, you know, I'm breaking it down and making it sound stupid,

00:35:32   but I don't know what more it could be.

00:35:34   Like what is it if it's not a consumer electronic?

00:35:37   It's a fashion device.

00:35:38   I knew you were going to say that.

00:35:39   But it's still electronic.

00:35:40   It's still electronic.

00:35:41   Well that's what Apple sells it as.

00:35:43   Apple says, "Hey, this is a fashion accessory."

00:35:45   I bet if you said to them, "This is a fashion accessory," they would say, "This is beyond

00:35:49   a fashion accessory.

00:35:50   It's beyond everything.

00:35:51   The Apple watches its own category."

00:35:53   So what you have to do is you have to look at that statement and you have to apply the

00:35:58   Apple marketing Phil Schiller BS filter to it and say, "Is this something?"

00:36:04   you know like bigger than bigger with the iPhone like that doesn't actually

00:36:07   mean anything that's not even a statement I actually like that this is

00:36:10   from the company that said I didn't bigger than bigger this is from the

00:36:14   company that on the iMessage page for iOS 8 is like lol actually L or

00:36:20   something like so for Johnny I have to say this is interesting maybe he

00:36:24   stumbled into something bigger than what he meant to say but I don't think he did

00:36:27   I think he really believes that that

00:36:30   Him I'm Myke. I'm so excited hit

00:36:33   the watch and that everything that everything that the watch portray so not just this like

00:36:39   S1 powered water-resistant bajillion dollar gold watch that he's wearing

00:36:43   Like it's beyond just this one product that he looks at the watch and what the watch will become

00:36:50   As this is beyond consumer electronics, and I think the tipping point is that it is about fashion

00:36:56   It is about something that you wear on your body that becomes part of your outfit that,

00:37:02   you know, when we've talked about this before, that people self-identify with things like

00:37:08   watches and glasses and shoes and help those things help build a story and how we project

00:37:17   ourselves into the world.

00:37:18   And I think that's what he means.

00:37:19   That, you know, like it does say something about me, like that I bought a Mac, but like

00:37:25   not at all like something that I wear my wrist every day and I think it's

00:37:30   obviously hyperbole to a degree but I don't think it's hyperbole to the degree

00:37:35   that Myke you want to say it is that I think he really believes this that you

00:37:39   know when the PC goes away and one day the PC industry as we know will be gone

00:37:43   and it looks like it might be happening sooner rather than later with things

00:37:47   like HP exploding and the Mac is still growing but overall the PC industry is

00:37:52   sinking to the bottom of the ocean. If the PC industry goes away, Apple's up

00:37:58   with post PC, iPad and iPhone and whatever the watch is, we'll call it post

00:38:04   post PC, whatever that thing is. And I think the watch is Apple's first attempt

00:38:10   at saying we have to move past post PC to survive because the PC where we made

00:38:15   our money for 30 years is going away and Apple started that in 2001 with the iPod

00:38:20   in 2007 with the phone and 2010 with the iPad are moving past and bigger and beyond the PC itself.

00:38:26   And now I think they're looking one rung further up that ladder, further out of saying we even have

00:38:32   to get past post-PC if we want to survive in the long term. I think the watch is the first of what

00:38:37   could be a very wide range of examples of Apple trying to do this.

00:38:41   I know I'm having a war of semantics. I know that's my overriding point.

00:38:48   I think that a lot of this just comes from I think that sometimes Apple have

00:38:56   the ability to overbet themselves for what their products are you know the

00:39:04   iPod HiFi you know I feel like sometimes they can hype it up way too much and we

00:39:11   don't really know if this is gonna be successful but we don't know sure no we

00:39:17   could look back in five years, we're sitting here on a Wednesday

00:39:22   talking on the show, and we look back and be like, "Guys, the watch was a

00:39:26   major cluster." It very well could happen, and Apple definitely has done that.

00:39:31   I don't think the Hi-Fi is a fair example, because it looks into the iPod, but if you look

00:39:36   further back, you look at things like the Newton, you look at things like, I would

00:39:42   even argue, things like the PowerBook Duo, like the idea that I have a laptop that

00:39:45   that is really small and portable but I take it home and I put it in this big dock and

00:39:49   it gets really more powerful and like the quick take like Apple has had ideas that didn't

00:39:54   take off and the watch very well could be one of those but Tim Cook and Johnny Ave can't

00:40:02   be on stage and be like I really hope this does well. No they have to sell it as like

00:40:06   we are beyond post PC with this because if they don't approach it that way it never has

00:40:11   a chance.

00:40:12   consumer electronic is an extremely bold statement to make because what you're

00:40:16   saying is it's not even in its own product class like it's not

00:40:21   a wearable it's not even anywhere near what you expect it to be we're not even

00:40:27   a consumer electronics company anymore we are a fashion company it's like you

00:40:32   are putting a lot on this. They are and like I said that made me nervous when

00:40:37   Tim Cook said this is the next chapter in Apple's story I was like bro like you

00:40:42   You can't throw that around.

00:40:46   It's not the same obviously, but Myke, it's like you saying, "You know what?

00:40:48   I'm going to quit my job and I'm going to work on this thing that I founded full-time."

00:40:53   It's that sort of bold statement.

00:40:54   You've made a very bold statement saying that you're going to take Relay full-time.

00:40:58   You can't undo that and you have to be excited about that because if you're not excited about

00:41:02   it, it will never succeed.

00:41:04   I haven't defined a new job structure.

00:41:08   There is no such thing as full-time or part-time anymore.

00:41:11   all time and that's what I'm doing it's you know it's accurate actually Myke

00:41:16   yes relay feels like just define the structure thank you I just wanted to say

00:41:28   guys you made sound stupid but um see when you mentioned all these past

00:41:34   experiments and by the way the power book duo sounds amazing I love one of

00:41:38   those. Yeah, I didn't even know it existed. This is why we have Steven on the show.

00:41:45   I'm sure you own one as well. You know, okay I'm just gonna say this, if you own

00:41:50   a PowerBook Duo you don't mail me one, please do, because I do not own one, I

00:41:54   really would like one. Please carry on. Okay so, those past experiments were from a

00:42:00   company that wasn't, you know, at the top of the consumer electronics space. But

00:42:06   This isn't a consumer electronics, Federico.

00:42:08   I'm sorry.

00:42:08   Hold on.

00:42:09   I see what he's saying there.

00:42:10   Let him get to it.

00:42:11   So now, it's the biggest technology company in the world.

00:42:14   And they can basically do or say whatever they want.

00:42:17   So if they want to say this is not a consumer electronics

00:42:21   product, they have the audience and the power and the influence

00:42:25   to do that.

00:42:25   And people believe that.

00:42:27   Because I mean, at the end of the day, it's still marketing and PR.

00:42:31   And so they say things.

00:42:33   But you've got to understand that it's a company that

00:42:35   needs to make money. So if they want to say this is a fashion device, it may not be semantically

00:42:41   or technically true, but it's the marketing perspective that matters. So if they want

00:42:45   to say the Apple Watch, and also we can discuss whether it's true or not. Personally, I believe

00:42:51   that it is, but still, from a marketing perspective, they want to say it's a fashion device, then

00:42:56   it's a fashion device, because they're so big, they want to do fashion, they go after

00:43:01   it's not the Apple of 20 years ago that okay yeah we're doing a digital camera

00:43:06   or we're doing this you know this computer that Stephen Hackett 20 years

00:43:10   later wants. Is it 20 years? 10? 15? Anyway let's say 10.

00:43:17   1992. 25 nearly. Yeah so 40 years ago. Anyway they're so big now they can do

00:43:27   whatever they want. So I think the problem is not whether they say it's a

00:43:31   fashion device or it's a consumer electronics device, it's whether they can

00:43:36   have a clear message and we could argue and maybe we you know this could be a

00:43:41   nice introduction to the next topic we could argue that the the message behind

00:43:47   the Apple Watch is much more focused and clear than what the iPad is going

00:43:55   through because the Apple Watch is already... people already know what the

00:43:58   Apple Watch is. It's a nice watch made by Apple so it's got some iPhone-like

00:44:04   features and some fitness stuff but it's a watch so it's fashion and it looks

00:44:08   great and people want it. The iPad still almost five years later people still say

00:44:14   yeah you know the iPad is nice I don't need an iPad I need a phone and a

00:44:19   computer so that's a bigger problem so maybe the reason why they're saying no

00:44:23   this is not consumer electronics, this is fashion, it's because it's a more

00:44:28   direct and understandable message. That was my whole point. That's an excellent

00:44:34   point. I like to poke at these things because I think that they're interesting

00:44:41   to discuss. I get the idea that, you know, they are on top, like they can do

00:44:46   whatever they want to do, like it's up to them completely and if they want

00:44:50   to call it that, they can call it that. But I like to talk about these things. I think

00:44:55   it's interesting. I think it's so bold. It just worries me. As a lover of Apple, these

00:45:01   things just concern me. But there we go.

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00:47:52   Thank you so much to Dash for supporting this show and Relay FM.

00:47:57   So guys, a few days ago I was buying pizza for dinner and because I still cannot make

00:48:05   pizza because I don't have a kitchen, a full kitchen at the new place, so there's this

00:48:11   little pizza shop in Rome, it's a 5 minute drive and it's called Gusto Pio which means

00:48:19   "Taste Plus" in English by the way.

00:48:23   So I was there and I asked for the pizza and I was waiting and I was using my iPhone.

00:48:30   And the pizza guy, after he put the pizza in the oven, he walks out and he looks at

00:48:38   me and he's like "Is that an iPhone 6?"

00:48:41   Yeah, and I tell him "Yeah, it's an iPhone 6" and he's like "Can I see it?"

00:48:46   This has been pretty common.

00:48:48   So we start talking about the iPhone 6, the battery life, the camera is faster, have you

00:48:54   tried the bigger iPhone?

00:48:56   So we're talking about Apple and apparently the guy is still using an iPhone 4, so I tell

00:49:02   him yeah you cannot do the iS8 update and he tells me that he's been considering an

00:49:06   iPhone 6 so I ask him do you have other Apple products?

00:49:11   Because I always enjoy listening to what people that don't write for technology websites,

00:49:18   they see tech and Apple specifically. So he tells me that he's been considering a

00:49:23   Mac and then he says the iPad is nice but you know I just I don't need the

00:49:29   iPad I need a computer at home and a phone with me. And that's you know that's

00:49:35   I guess it's very common to hear that kind of reaction from casual people

00:49:41   especially younger people and it makes me think every time because the

00:49:47   iPad is almost five years old, right? Next January it will be the fifth

00:49:53   anniversary of the iPad introduction and still people don't get it and not

00:50:01   because they're stupid, not because they're dumb, but because they don't see

00:50:04   the message and they don't see the purpose of the device. Even younger

00:50:08   generations, even you know this guy is my age, probably younger, and they still

00:50:15   see the computer at home and the phone, you know, all the time with you in your

00:50:23   pocket. So the tablet is still a problem apparently for Apple, they still have to

00:50:28   understand what the iPad is for and tomorrow there's an Apple event

00:50:33   and according to the rumors and apparently there's been a leak on the

00:50:39   iTunes on the iBook store, we will see an iPad Air 2 and an iPad Mini 3.

00:50:46   And also we've seen the numbers, we've seen the charts and the graphs, and we have seen

00:50:51   the iPad growth slow down considerably over the past year or past two years.

00:51:00   So my question to you, and the discussion that I want to have, why do people still struggle

00:51:06   to understand the iPad and is there something that Apple can do to make the device a must

00:51:16   have for people or is that even necessary?

00:51:19   I feel like that window's passed.

00:51:23   I feel like if you can't have already convinced somebody that this is a device that they want,

00:51:33   I don't know what more this device, the iPad, can do to prove that.

00:51:39   I can't see any incredible advancement that Apple can make that makes it more attractive

00:51:47   to somebody that doesn't own one of these things already.

00:51:51   I feel like there are things that Apple can do to make people buy another iPad.

00:51:57   Like advancements you can make to iOS or to the iPad models themselves to make people

00:52:03   want to buy the next version.

00:52:06   But I think at this point, you're always going to pick up new people, but I don't think you're

00:52:12   going to pick up iPhone levels of people.

00:52:15   I just don't see it happening.

00:52:17   I don't know what they do, but I feel like your window's probably passed in which you

00:52:21   could do something like that.

00:52:23   Right, I mean and you've said yourself as an iPad owner for a long time that you haven't used yours

00:52:29   At all if I am saying correctly I find the six plus I've always gone in waves with the iPad

00:52:36   Maybe two and and so I like use them

00:52:38   I use them religiously for a while and then kind of fall out and I and I've missed cycles completely

00:52:44   Which is you know, I don't have never done that of an iPhone. I've completely missed cycles and just let them go by

00:52:51   like the original iPad, I bought an iPad 1 and an iPad 2, I bought an

00:52:58   iPad 3 close to the end of its life just because I was in the States and could

00:53:02   get it for pretty cheap, didn't bother with the iPad 4 at all, but and then

00:53:07   bought a mini and then a Retina mini. I mean... I bet you've owned more

00:53:14   than most iPad owners. Yeah I know but that's not every iPad and it's also

00:53:18   I also didn't buy every iPad as soon as they came out.

00:53:20   So it's not a massive thing, but it's for me,

00:53:24   I would have expected when the original one came out,

00:53:27   I will buy every iPad that there ever is

00:53:28   because I love this thing.

00:53:30   But there just seemed to be just not a desire for me

00:53:35   to keep on the bleeding edge of it

00:53:36   where I do have that with the iPhone.

00:53:39   Like I'm like, I just want the next iPhones

00:53:41   and I will always want the next iPhones in theory.

00:53:45   But I mean, we're on the eve of the event,

00:53:47   but I can't think of anything Apple could do

00:53:49   to make me wanna buy another iPad

00:53:52   in the next six to eight months.

00:53:54   Like I just don't see it.

00:53:56   - Or next 12 hours.

00:53:57   - Yeah.

00:53:58   - Yes.

00:53:59   I mean, I get it.

00:54:00   - Can I just say that I have a theory

00:54:02   that maybe the desire to upgrade

00:54:06   is directly proportional to the amount of time

00:54:09   that you spend with the device?

00:54:11   - That makes a lot of sense, yes.

00:54:15   - Yeah, that makes perfect.

00:54:17   - So maybe the iPad upgrade desire growth

00:54:21   is at the same level of a Mac, probably.

00:54:26   You know, it's a big device that you buy.

00:54:32   I don't know, it's strange because it's not a Mac,

00:54:35   but it's also not an iPhone.

00:54:37   And maybe that's a problem.

00:54:39   - It's not a price thing.

00:54:40   - It's not a price thing.

00:54:41   - Not for me anyway, it's not a price thing

00:54:43   because an iPad would be cheaper than what I paid for my iPhone.

00:54:47   Yeah, yeah, there's that.

00:54:49   No, it's-- you know, I mean, Jobs announced the iPad in 2010.

00:54:53   He's like, it's got to do things better than a smartphone

00:54:55   and better than a laptop.

00:54:57   And the things that I use my iPad Air for

00:55:00   are the things that Jobs showed off in that original keynote.

00:55:03   It's reading while on the couch or in a chair,

00:55:06   doing some video stuff, doing some browsing.

00:55:09   And we're going to get in a second, Federico,

00:55:11   I don't I'm gonna don't cut loose quite yet about if you need a Mac at all anymore

00:55:16   but I do think like the iPad does exist in this middle ground and I

00:55:21   Think Apple really tried to to make the point

00:55:26   The iPad is unique a couple different times if you remember with the iPad the initial

00:55:30   Kind of push with the apps was I work so

00:55:34   Keynote which keynote is pretty nice on the iPad actually but pages and numbers right like hey

00:55:41   it's a productivity machine we sell this keyboard doc you can plug it in you can

00:55:44   do word processing on an iPad and then it was a couple years later with iLife

00:55:49   oh man you can make music on an iPad and you can have iPhoto and iMovie and like

00:55:54   iPhoto for iOS doesn't exist anymore and GarageBand is okay but kind of weird and

00:55:58   iMovie is cool but kind of weird and so they tried productivity they've tried

00:56:03   creativity and now I think if they if these rumors of like side-by-side apps

00:56:09   or like more powerful multitasking especially with a bigger one. Things with

00:56:13   like the IBM partnership. Apple I think it's swung back around said hey it's a

00:56:18   productivity device and like you can go do salesman things on it and and for me

00:56:23   for normal cons I mean average consumers and people like us me and Myke, Frederick

00:56:29   Gager special, I've always struggled people struggle with what is the purpose

00:56:35   of the iPad. You know for me if I'm working which for me involves writing or

00:56:41   editing audio or you know doing research or doing what I do for my day job like

00:56:46   I'm best served by a Mac and if I'm on the go I'm best served by an iPhone

00:56:51   because if it's in my pocket and it's always with me and it's my primary

00:56:56   mobile device and the iPad is like well it's there if I'm on the like hanging

00:57:00   out on the couch or like in the backyard I want to do some reading but that's not

00:57:05   big use case and so it sits and and like Myke like you said it goes in waves for

00:57:09   me there are times where I'm very productive on the iPad and want to do a

00:57:12   lot on it and then I'll pick it out of my bag and it's dead because it's been

00:57:16   sitting in my backpack for a month and it's it's hard to justify with that sort

00:57:19   of usage buying a new one tomorrow. I picked up my iPad a couple of days ago

00:57:25   and I had a notification on the lock screen telling me that my iPad hasn't

00:57:30   been backed up in three weeks.

00:57:32   - Is that, yeah, that's fine.

00:57:34   - So I have a few points.

00:57:36   - Yeah.

00:57:38   - I think it's a collection of problems

00:57:41   for Apple and the iPad.

00:57:43   The first one is that the main reason the iPad exists,

00:57:48   the Steve Jobs original demo, you're on your couch

00:57:55   and you're browsing the web, you can hold the web

00:57:57   with your hands you can manipulate content and there's a big screen.

00:58:02   That reason to exist has been largely replaced by phones because now you can do all the things

00:58:13   that an iPad can do.

00:58:15   You can hold the web in your hands because you have a screen so big and so high res.

00:58:20   It's a pleasure to look at and it's a pleasure to hold and it's always with you because it's

00:58:25   It's also a phone with a cellular antenna, so it's not a tablet that you only have to

00:58:30   use at home.

00:58:32   The second problem, Apple itself has somehow failed to show people after the iPad 2 why

00:58:43   the iPad needs to exist.

00:58:46   There was the iWork demo for the first iPad, there was the iLife demo for the second iPad,

00:58:52   And then it was just a matter of hardware changes, you know, higher resolution screen

00:58:57   or smaller iPad or, you know, even smaller iPad, lighter iPad and somewhat weird iPad

00:59:05   with the iPad 4.

00:59:08   And so Apple didn't exactly underline the importance of software made specifically for

00:59:18   the iPad in the past few years.

00:59:21   The third problem is related to the second one, is that it didn't enable developers to

00:59:25   create specific, and as Steve Jobs said, and I don't want to use this word, but it's the

00:59:32   marketing term that they use, magical software for the iPad.

00:59:36   And by magical I mean the kind of software that it's only possible on the device.

00:59:41   And what I'm saying is confirmed by going to the App Store, looking at the iPad App

00:59:47   store and you will struggle to find apps that are only available on the iPad

00:59:52   because most developers also make apps for the phone and most iPad apps as much

00:59:57   as Tim Cook likes to make fun of it are bigger versions of iPhone apps so even

01:00:03   third-party developers don't have you know maybe it could be it could be

01:00:08   because Apple doesn't set a clear example but developers didn't didn't

01:00:13   really create, you know, with the exception of a few names that anyway later became

01:00:20   available on other platforms such as Flipboard. So I would say with the

01:00:24   exception of Paper, the drawing app, and a few others, there's really not an

01:00:29   incentive for developers to make an iPad-only app at this point. And my final

01:00:35   point is that the Your Verse campaign on Apple.com, it's really nice to look

01:00:43   they got a nice design on the web pages. There are good stories, you know, it's

01:00:49   always nice to read the story about an orchestra director using an

01:00:54   iPad or a scientist using an iPad in a lab to take measurements and stuff.

01:01:01   But it fails at communicating why everyday usage of the iPad can be

01:01:07   revolutionary for people. So okay, it's nice to see these people going

01:01:12   on a mountain with an iPad.

01:01:15   Or yeah, I can dive with an iPad and take photos under the sea,

01:01:19   but then again, I could die.

01:01:21   So there's really no everyday person story there.

01:01:31   It's like going to a fashion magazine and reading about celebrities.

01:01:36   It's an exception.

01:01:37   It's a nice exception.

01:01:38   It's a nice story, and it's great photography.

01:01:41   but it's just I guess that people struggle to relate to that

01:01:47   yeah and it's it's

01:01:49   you see Apple trying to correct that with some of the app stuff

01:01:51   making it

01:01:53   you know more flexible with iOS 8 apps and everything

01:01:57   but um

01:01:58   it's definitely the software is definitely a problem

01:02:02   and while they can't fix it I agree with Myke

01:02:06   it might be too late

01:02:10   That I don't know. See, I don't know if it's ever too late, especially when you have the

01:02:16   current money.

01:02:17   Well, sure. And with the Mac, it was, you know, with the Mac and the iPhone and the

01:02:22   iPod, it all took time, but five years is a long time. And by the time five years in

01:02:29   with the iPod and the iPhone, obviously it really hit their stride. But we're going to

01:02:33   talk about Federico, you. I think Myke has something really cool to talk about first.

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01:05:26   So there have been a couple of stories floating around.

01:05:30   as today, so one on ReCode and then one over on Ben Thompson's site that I can't pronounce.

01:05:36   It's Stratechery now.

01:05:37   Yeah, if the tech is orange.

01:05:39   Strate-chich.

01:05:40   No, he's gone with Stratechery now.

01:05:42   It's Stratechery because of...

01:05:45   But now, nobody knew how to say it, so now we're still in that situation, but it's Stratechery.

01:05:50   So two articles talking very much about what we just spoke about.

01:05:53   Is the iPad still matter?

01:05:54   Is it still relevant?

01:05:55   has a hilariously ancient screenshot on a hilariously ancient iPad in their

01:06:00   article. It's kind of their thing. And it's like horribly photoshopped, like who

01:06:04   lets these people near it? I don't know. So there's also a link on this little

01:06:11   website called Mac Stories. This guy Federico Vatici writes about the

01:06:18   things that he... kind of the opposite of that, of like what he still needs a Mac for.

01:06:22   and so there's things on here like local backups, screen recording, generating

01:06:29   GIFs, versioning, recording podcasts which I know like before you mail us the

01:06:36   guys at out of school have done it they do do it it's a crazy setup. I don't want

01:06:41   to do it and I won't let Federico do it. Installing betas of iOS because you

01:06:48   can't install the beta from the device itself.

01:06:50   So Federica, are you seriously considering

01:06:54   getting rid of OS X?

01:06:55   - Can I continue to talk about me in the third person?

01:06:59   - Yes. - Yes.

01:07:00   - Like Caesar, right?

01:07:02   What's the name, Dibello Gallico?

01:07:05   The laden, anyway.

01:07:07   - Sure, man.

01:07:08   - I'm sure we'll get,

01:07:09   that's my laden studies from high school coming back.

01:07:12   I'm sure we'll get follow up about this.

01:07:15   So yeah, I actually did consider not fixing my MacBook Air and letting it die slowly,

01:07:24   painfully, no not really painfully, you know I'm not an evil guy. But yeah, I just don't want to

01:07:31   spend the money, big money on a Mac when I just don't use it that much, but still I have a problem

01:07:37   because as you noticed in that MacStories website, I need my Mac for a few things still

01:07:47   and those are important things. So they may not be features or tasks that I do several times a day

01:07:55   for several hours every day but it's still essential tasks. Like when an iOS beta comes out

01:08:04   I need to install it because I need to get ready for Mac stories or you know gifts and

01:08:09   All these other things that I mentioned in my in my post. So my idea, okay

01:08:14   So let me tell you about my ideas. Can I tell you about my ideas? I will tell you about my ideas

01:08:18   Okay, so my original idea was I'm just not gonna care about my MacBook Air

01:08:24   It'll die eventually. It'll become obsolete. I will not be able to be able to install new versions of OS X

01:08:31   I'm already missing out on features such as hands-off

01:08:35   because apparently Apple has decided not to support it on my

01:08:40   2011 MacBook Air

01:08:42   so I thought I will just go full-time with the iPad and

01:08:45   If the MacBook Air dies, I will just keep using the iPad maybe this year

01:08:52   I will get an iPad Air because it's got a bigger screen

01:08:55   So if my Mac dies and I don't have a Mac anymore, I need to somehow compromise on screen size

01:09:02   So even if I prefer the iPad mini form factor if I go full full-time on

01:09:08   The iPad and I don't see a Mac anymore. I'm probably gonna get an iPad there because it's a bigger screen

01:09:15   And also because I have big hands so it wouldn't be a huge problem

01:09:20   And then I thought I could maybe get like an external monitor and I could maybe plug in my iPad in the monitor

01:09:28   I don't know if that's a thing that you can do

01:09:30   So hold on I don't want to spend two thousand euros on a Mac

01:09:37   So I could maybe use them, you know, I have a Dell I have a monitor that I use at home

01:09:46   Sometimes I don't know why I bought it honestly, but it was back when I was using my iMac anyway

01:09:52   So I could merely plug in my iPad with some kind of cable into the monitor

01:09:56   and like when I want to see bigger stuff I can use the monitor and

01:10:01   Then I thought okay, maybe I want I need to think about this

01:10:06   So I

01:10:09   Saw that link a couple of days ago, and I wanted to link to that

01:10:13   so I started thinking about all these features and I made a list and I realized that I really

01:10:19   needed to consider not letting my MacBook die because what am I supposed to do if my MacBook

01:10:27   dies and I need to install an iOS beta? Do I just ask my girlfriend to use her Mac to do the betas?

01:10:34   Do we ask my girlfriend also for the GIFs and all these other things that are not possible on my

01:10:39   iPad. So right now I'm very much undecided on what I should do because I could probably try to

01:10:51   come up with all sorts of workflows and stuff but you know I cannot fix what's really impossible.

01:11:02   I cannot make a workflow to install an iOS beta on the iPad because you know I cannot.

01:11:07   So my second strategy at this point would be to follow... this may sound like a surprise, but

01:11:17   I may follow Ben Brooks advice and try to do most of these tasks remotely on my Mac mini server

01:11:28   and keep working on the iPad, but still I would have the problem of installing betas and

01:11:35   you're not doing stuff locally that I cannot do via VNC or SSH and that kind of stuff.

01:11:44   So I don't know.

01:11:45   >> Vibre podcasts as well.

01:11:46   You kind of need it.

01:11:47   >> That's possible.

01:11:48   That's possible.

01:11:49   That's still possible to do on the iPad.

01:11:50   I could probably figure it out somehow.

01:11:52   And I won't tell you because otherwise you would be all bossy and, "Well, don't do that."

01:11:57   >> Well, yeah, because it's kind of important that you can record your--

01:12:02   I will assure you, you won't even notice.

01:12:05   Oh, I'll notice.

01:12:07   Because I actually don't even think that you can power your microphone--

01:12:11   you cannot power your microphone from an iPad.

01:12:13   So that's how I'll notice, because you'll need a new microphone.

01:12:16   I can power my microphone from a mixer, I think.

01:12:22   So the moral of the story is--

01:12:25   OK, no, the moral of the story is that I want to save money.

01:12:28   I don't want to buy a new Mac.

01:12:30   A mixer would probably be more expensive.

01:12:32   You could repair your Mac.

01:12:34   See, I don't want to do that either because I don't want to go to the Apple store and

01:12:38   explain and then wait a few days.

01:12:41   You could steal Mac.

01:12:42   I don't like getting phone calls from people so they would call me, "Hey, your Mac is

01:12:46   ready and you come back."

01:12:48   So I go back and everybody's cheering, "We fixed your Mac!"

01:12:51   I'm weird like that.

01:12:54   And I don't know.

01:12:57   Seems like it.

01:12:58   I mean, I think it's really interesting to consider doing iPad-only work.

01:13:02   And clearly, people in the chat are like, "Yeah, my mom does it."

01:13:05   Clearly lots of people can work just from iOS, but it's about an individual, certain

01:13:11   set of tasks.

01:13:12   And I think you did a really fair job in your article of saying, "I would do it except

01:13:17   for these things," and outlining what those things are.

01:13:21   It would be a crazy experiment.

01:13:23   It's one that would make me nervous watching.

01:13:26   But I think for kind of what you do, I think you buy a cheap Mac Mini and hook it up on

01:13:35   that Dell display and be fine.

01:13:36   Yeah, that's also another possible solution.

01:13:40   If Apple ever updates the Mac Mini, that's another story.

01:13:44   Tomorrow I'm telling you, man.

01:13:46   You sure?

01:13:47   No.

01:13:48   I can dream.

01:13:50   Yeah, see, that's probably also a solution.

01:13:56   But then I wouldn't have... see what ideally, what I would like is if somebody came here,

01:14:03   took my Mac without telling me, and like the next morning I wake up and Mac is fixed and

01:14:09   I don't have to do anything.

01:14:10   Oh, the Mac Santa.

01:14:13   Or like the Mac Butler, you know?

01:14:17   I just don't want to think about it.

01:14:20   I'll be right over, sir.

01:14:23   See with that British voice.

01:14:25   And I don't want to spend any money because I feel like even a repair is not worth

01:14:31   Like I don't like working on my mic anymore because it's just confession time at this point. I don't like using my mic anymore. I

01:14:39   feel like it's frustrating especially after you get used to the simplicity of iOS and

01:14:45   And this may sound weird from somebody who you know, it's my job to write about this stuff

01:14:52   I just don't enjoy OS X anymore. I think it's boring and I'm not excited by Yosemite at all

01:14:58   I think it's I'm getting constantly all these little pop-ups and banners and stuff and windows resize

01:15:06   And they forget their position and you you have to click and drag stuff and and it's weird

01:15:10   Especially after you get used to iOS. I'm probably gonna get a lot of hate for this. I don't care

01:15:16   I just don't enjoy

01:15:18   Using a Mac anymore like I have to use it and because I have to use it

01:15:22   I don't want to spend money if I have if I really must spend money. It has to be the you know smallest amount possible

01:15:29   So there's that you should get a Mac Mini

01:15:33   Should get a Mac Mini should get a Mac Mini. I think that is yours honestly Federica

01:15:37   I think that is your solution you get a Mac Mini for the stuff that you can't do anything about

01:15:41   including podcasting

01:15:44   installing betas

01:15:46   The heavy things you might need to do from time to time the Mac Mini is the cheapest way in you've got a monitor already

01:15:52   So you can plug it straight in a keyboard. It's not expensive. I have my keyboard

01:15:56   So you should get a Mac Mini don't replace or repair your your laptop

01:16:01   I don't think because it's smash your laptop everything that people usually use a laptop for you use your iPad for that

01:16:08   Like you should get a Mac Mini because then you can also have the Mac Mini do things for you

01:16:14   You know, I know that you have a great, you know server Mac mini colo

01:16:18   Who help us with our life. Should we think you make many color?

01:16:22   I

01:16:24   Think that you should consider

01:16:25   I think you should really consider that and especially if Apple do updated then you can get a refurbished one or something like that

01:16:30   Totally I think you should do it genuine. I am currently speaking to you via a Mac mini

01:16:39   Yeah, that's probably what I'm gonna do. I think that's just I genuinely think that's your solution because they're really not that expensive like alright

01:16:47   They're not cheap, but they're not that expensive

01:16:48   It's like the price of an iPad so and I already have a monitor and the keyboard and the track

01:16:53   It would be cheaper probably for you to buy a new sort of

01:16:57   Base level Mac mini then it would for you to probably replace to fix your computer

01:17:04   I have a G4 Mac Mini I can mail you. Don't take that from him. No, no

01:17:08   I'm just gonna wait for the announcement and then I'm gonna get the base model probably.

01:17:12   Perfect.

01:17:13   I think that's the best of both worlds.

01:17:16   What do I do with my MacBook Air?

01:17:18   I told you.

01:17:19   Still a problem.

01:17:20   You drop it off your new balcony and film it in high speed from the ground and put it

01:17:26   on YouTube and monetize the heck out of it.

01:17:29   With ads.

01:17:30   What you need to do is find a box.

01:17:32   A bin test.

01:17:33   See if it bins.

01:17:34   box which for a new MacBook Air and you just pretend that you just bought it and then for

01:17:38   it because that's what makes the money.

01:17:40   That's a big box.

01:17:43   Put it on YouTube.

01:17:45   That's, I think we're done.

01:17:47   If you'd like to find the show notes for this week's episode head on over to relay.fm/connected/nine.

01:17:54   If you'd like to find Federico Vittucci on the internet he is at MacStories.net and he

01:17:58   is @Vittucci on Twitter.

01:18:01   Stephen writes at 512pixels.net and he is @ismh on Twitter.

01:18:06   I am a podcaster.

01:18:08   I have many podcasts at relay.fm and I am @imyke on Twitter too.

01:18:15   The show has @_connectedfm and if you want to reach us via email you can find a link

01:18:22   to do that on our page on the relay.fm website.

01:18:27   Thanks again to our sponsors for this week's episode, Squarespace, Dash, and Smile.

01:18:32   Go and check out those fantastic companies and help support Relay FM too.

01:18:36   We'll be back next time.

01:18:38   Until then, bye bye.

01:18:40   Arrivederci.

01:18:41   Adios.