7: A Briefcase Full of Kbase


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:07   Hello and welcome back to Connected on Relay FM. This is episode number seven.

00:00:12   Today is Wednesday, the first of October 2014. This episode of Connected is brought to you

00:00:20   by our friends over at Smile and we're talking about TextExpander Touch today where you can

00:00:26   and type more with less effort.

00:00:28   My name is Myke Curley, and I am joined, as I always am,

00:00:31   by Mr. Federico Vittigi.

00:00:32   Hi Federico.

00:00:33   - Hey Myke, how are you?

00:00:35   - I'm very well, thank you.

00:00:36   And welcome back to the new father of the group,

00:00:40   Mr. Steven Hackett.

00:00:41   - Hey boys.

00:00:42   - Congratulations.

00:00:44   - Thank you.

00:00:45   Thank you for the kind words on last week's show.

00:00:47   - That's okay.

00:00:48   - He's always been a father though, right?

00:00:50   - He's always been a father to me.

00:00:52   - Yeah.

00:00:54   Besides Dr. Drang.

00:00:55   Yeah.

00:00:56   Yeah.

00:00:56   I mean, I've been a father for almost six years.

00:00:58   I've been beta testing parenthood for almost six years now.

00:01:01   And I'm stuck today.

00:01:02   And--

00:01:03   You got some bug reports?

00:01:06   Yeah.

00:01:07   Yeah.

00:01:08   So big show today.

00:01:11   Huge show.

00:01:12   But we need to start with what might

00:01:13   be the most well-documented piece of follow-up

00:01:18   that we've ever received.

00:01:21   So let me-- before we go into it,

00:01:22   I'm just painting a picture for you guys.

00:01:25   I was a newborn son last Monday,

00:01:28   so we're in the hospital kind of hanging out.

00:01:30   And I'm like, hey, everyone's asleep,

00:01:32   I'm gonna listen to Connected.

00:01:34   And I hear you guys say what we're getting ready to correct.

00:01:38   And like, I corrected it for you,

00:01:40   even though you weren't there,

00:01:41   I was by myself with a sleeping baby.

00:01:43   I could have saved you from the follow-up.

00:01:46   But Myke, what happened?

00:01:52   happened with this? I have prepared a statement. Yes, this is the Myke Merculpa.

00:01:57   So I made the egregious error of saying last week that Reachability did not

00:02:07   allow me to access Notification Center. Thankfully the entire internet got in

00:02:13   touch to let me know that you can access Notification Center from Reachability. I

00:02:19   I am not kidding. I have never received as much response from something that I

00:02:30   did from this. Maybe within 24 hours I probably had about five or six emails

00:02:37   about it and about 25 or 30 tweets and I thought wow that's a lot that's a lot of

00:02:42   feedback about that. I definitely need to address that but it carried on all week.

00:02:47   I was still getting people telling me yesterday about it.

00:02:51   I think this means you should be in the business of providing reachability tips on a daily

00:02:57   basis.

00:02:58   I've already set up a blog, reachability.sexy, and we're all over it.

00:03:04   It's just reaching all the time.

00:03:07   I always appreciate follow-up.

00:03:10   Do not misunderstand that, guys, but it was just insane.

00:03:13   I knew that I made the error after hearing it, but I just could not believe how many

00:03:18   people contacted me about it.

00:03:22   It was just very peculiar to me, because I make errors all the time.

00:03:25   All the time.

00:03:26   But this week, lots.

00:03:29   Lots and lots.

00:03:30   Lots and lots of feedback.

00:03:32   Lots of feedback.

00:03:33   So have you just been swiping down to get notification center all week to make up for

00:03:37   your mistake?

00:03:38   I have been, because I know it exists now.

00:03:40   Like I feel like I don't know anything about iOS more than I know that reachability can

00:03:45   be accessed.

00:03:46   Can you use reachability?

00:03:47   Can I just comment on that feature?

00:03:49   I've been using my iPhone 6 for the past week and I really like it.

00:03:58   So this reachability thing, it was kind of weird initially, especially when I saw it

00:04:03   in the keynote.

00:04:05   You know, I've been using it quite a lot every day and I like it.

00:04:12   And I do think that the gesture to open Notification Center is kind of weird because you need to

00:04:18   swipe on basically a huge void on your home screen or any other app and it just doesn't

00:04:27   make sense because the status bar doesn't come down so basically you need to guess where

00:04:34   you have to swipe.

00:04:37   I also think it's weird that reachability doesn't push individual notification banners

00:04:43   down because I often want to just tap a message or a tweet that I just got, but I cannot push

00:04:51   the individual banner with reachability.

00:04:55   It seems to me that this feature is weird but handy but also half-baked and it needs

00:05:00   more work.

00:05:01   While we're talking about notifications, I really don't like that you can't pull down

00:05:06   the notification center view anymore from when you get a notification.

00:05:13   You know you used to be able to just press it and then you could pull down.

00:05:17   You can't do that anymore and I don't like that.

00:05:19   That's because you have actions now.

00:05:21   You have actions.

00:05:22   When you pull down.

00:05:24   No, but it would be nice if you could grab it.

00:05:27   This is how it used to work.

00:05:28   grab it and you push up a little bit and then you can pull the whole thing down.

00:05:31   Oh yeah I know what you mean. Do you remember? Yeah yeah yeah. Do you guys find like I sort of do

00:05:39   reachability accidentally? Oh all the time. Because it's like a weird like you

00:05:44   have to double touch the button but not sometimes it just happens I don't know

00:05:49   I'm not the whole thing feels really strange and clearly they're like

00:05:52   forcing an interaction onto hardware that like wasn't ever designed with this

00:05:56   in mind. Yeah it's like retrofitting it. It's like we need to do this thing and

00:06:01   the only way we can do it is to do something from the home button. What I

00:06:04   have realized in the last couple of weeks is that I obviously rest my thumb

00:06:09   on the home button. Yeah. Because I'm constantly setting it off. No way I

00:06:15   never do that. Can you turn it off?

00:06:19   You should look it up. I'm definitely gonna look it up. I do think that

00:06:25   But Ruchavillitea is better than the Samsung one-handed mode that basically shrinks an

00:06:32   app into the corner of the screen.

00:06:34   I think it is a strange but more elegant solution than that.

00:06:39   You can definitely turn it off.

00:06:40   I'm showing my time-lapse video now.

00:06:42   There's a switch.

00:06:43   You can turn it off.

00:06:45   What I would also like to do...

00:06:46   Yeah, Steven's taken a time-lapse of this episode.

00:06:49   I don't know why.

00:06:50   It'll be in the show notes.

00:06:52   Because I can.

00:06:53   What I would also like to be able to do though is to toggle it and keep it there and then

00:07:01   I choose when it goes back.

00:07:03   Yeah, because sometimes a single interaction will send it back to the top and other times

00:07:08   it hangs out.

00:07:09   Again, it just feels sort of halfway done.

00:07:13   So the second most received follow-up feedback that I've ever had was around the next part.

00:07:19   It's a big week, guys.

00:07:22   Landscape mode text selection.

00:07:23   Now this one I will not take any responsibility for not knowing about because the way in which

00:07:33   you need to do this is so backwards.

00:07:37   So if you remember I was saying that it would be good if you could highlight text by holding

00:07:41   shift and using the cursor keys in landscape mode on the 6+.

00:07:46   It is possible to highlight text but the way you have to do it is to double tap the shift

00:07:49   to go into caps locks mode and then you can move the cursor left and right to select text.

00:07:56   That sounds... It works on the 6 as well.

00:07:58   Oh okay. It does?

00:08:00   That's super janky. That doesn't make any sense. I feel like that's

00:08:05   a bug not a feature but it's a way you do it.

00:08:09   Yeah I mean the keyboard stuff too, like reachability, I think especially on the 6 plus like they

00:08:17   they didn't make the keyboard so wide so they threw some stuff in there and I

00:08:21   for one at least on the six feel like the horizontal keyboard is harder to use

00:08:25   than it used to be because now like after like bypass all of these things

00:08:29   around the edges to get to the actual keyboard the six plus needs a script a

00:08:33   split keyboard yeah definitely 100 guys use the landscape here on the iPhone

00:08:39   much I've been using it more for those buttons seriously that like the I've

00:08:46   I've used some apps which are text heavy that you need these buttons, if you use these buttons

00:08:53   it can make things a lot easier to do.

00:08:57   The cut, copy and paste stuff is very useful.

00:09:00   When I decided this week that when Casey hit 10,000 followers I wanted to send him 10,000

00:09:06   emoji balloons, which I did do, that was how I did it.

00:09:10   Who are you talking about?

00:09:12   I don't know.

00:09:13   - You should have used a script to send 10,000 emoji.

00:09:18   - It wasn't that difficult.

00:09:19   It took me like a minute to do it.

00:09:23   - And it was 10,000?

00:09:24   - Yeah, I did 10 and then I did,

00:09:26   copied and pasted that and did that 10 times

00:09:28   and copied that, did that 10 times,

00:09:30   copied all that, did that 10 times.

00:09:31   - Wow, you're really good at--

00:09:32   - That's a metric though.

00:09:33   - You're really good at mathematics, Myke.

00:09:35   - Thanks, man.

00:09:36   - Speaking of follow-up from the distant past,

00:09:41   There's a bunch of tweets in here about battery improvement

00:09:44   after restoring your phone.

00:09:46   - Killing money.

00:09:47   - Which is pretty interesting.

00:09:49   So, Myke, I heard that you started fresh.

00:09:53   Do you still feel like that was the right decision for you?

00:09:56   - Yes, I do.

00:09:58   My phone does still feel a little bit weird.

00:10:00   It feels like it's not organized in any way,

00:10:05   and I don't feel like I can organize it properly,

00:10:08   like what apps I'm using and where they're going.

00:10:10   But I'm getting there.

00:10:12   I feel like it's just going to be a slow, long process of getting things to some sort

00:10:16   of order.

00:10:17   Like screen one is pretty much set, but then two and three, it's kind of all over the place

00:10:22   at the moment.

00:10:23   And it doesn't really make a lot of sense, but I'm working on it.

00:10:25   But the battery life is incredible, so if that's what did it, then it was worth it.

00:10:31   Yeah, I have found that even with the six, you get an extra row of icons.

00:10:36   And that's been really stressful.

00:10:38   what's gonna get graduated up to the up to the my first home screen yeah but also

00:10:43   like we spoke about this last week but you have to completely rethink the way

00:10:47   that you organize it yeah because the most the apps that you want to use the

00:10:52   most don't necessarily go where they used to go like for me they all went at

00:10:56   the top but that they they're now the hardest for me to reach even though of

00:11:01   course I can use everybody's favorite software feature to get to them

00:11:05   Spotlight?

00:11:06   Mm-hmm.

00:11:07   You guys really think a lot about this stuff.

00:11:12   I can't believe you don't, considering how much time you spend on iOS.

00:11:17   I just turn obsessed over the position of icons.

00:11:19   I guess I use Spotlight a lot to launch apps.

00:11:23   Is that weird?

00:11:24   No, I use it a lot, but for apps that aren't on my home screen.

00:11:28   Like the first one.

00:11:29   Yeah, I don't know.

00:11:31   There's people who do all sorts of crazy experiments with the colors of the icons on the home screen

00:11:40   and arranging icons and they spend hours and hours trying to move icons.

00:11:46   I do have some logic to the way that I arrange at least the first screen.

00:11:50   You do?

00:11:51   Yeah, like messaging apps go on one row and then four of the five to-do apps that I have

00:12:00   on one row. You know you should try this methodology that I heard, it's called GTD.

00:12:06   That's how I get things done, I get things done with five different applications.

00:12:10   Okay. I'm leaving that there, I'm just going to leave that there and we'll see what people

00:12:15   have to say about that.

00:12:18   Are we waiting for people to comment right now?

00:12:22   Not right now!

00:12:23   We're still in that hang.

00:12:24   This is a calling show or something?

00:12:27   We have Bob from Cleveland, Ohio on the line.

00:12:30   - Nobody from Cleveland has the internet.

00:12:32   So I wrote a review of the iPhone 6.

00:12:35   It's in the show notes.

00:12:37   And then I had some, I followed up with some follow up.

00:12:41   And I don't know, you can go read the review.

00:12:43   I'm sure a lot of people have by now.

00:12:45   One thing I wanted to talk to you two about,

00:12:47   you guys are using cases with your phones?

00:12:51   Yes, Myke is.

00:12:52   What about you Federico?

00:12:53   - No way.

00:12:54   - Okay, so here's my thing.

00:12:57   I used a case with my original iPhone

00:12:59   because it was expensive and made of metal

00:13:02   and scary to carry around, but now,

00:13:04   I mean I haven't since then.

00:13:08   I've only ever broken one phone.

00:13:11   With the 6 though, I ended up buying

00:13:13   the black leather Apple case,

00:13:15   and I'm not using it currently,

00:13:18   but I've been using it kind of on and off.

00:13:21   And I don't know, like,

00:13:22   Myke I think you had tweeted or something

00:13:24   saying like the phone, like these are slippery, right?

00:13:26   the edges aren't flat so you don't have a lot of contact with the edge of your

00:13:30   fingers to hold it and like it's just it's sort of like the slippery little

00:13:33   thing that I've actually dropped mine once already thankfully it was outside

00:13:38   over grass and not concrete but sort of a weird thing I didn't think I'd ever

00:13:43   buy an iPhone case again. So I have like quite a grippy case on mine I'm waiting

00:13:48   for my Apple Silicon case to ship some point this year if I didn't have a case

00:13:54   this phone would be ruined if not now in the very near future.

00:13:58   I was kind of playing around about the K-Song yesterday and it's too big and too slippery.

00:14:04   I have to have something where I can keep a grip on it.

00:14:07   Like I found one of my sort of resting positions for the phone is I have a very light grip on it

00:14:12   but have most of my hand covering the back of it.

00:14:14   And because I have a grippy case it just stays in place.

00:14:18   I wouldn't be able to do that otherwise.

00:14:22   Yeah, well life's too short to carry a case on your iPhone life's too short to stand in line at the Genius bar

00:14:28   No, it's true. Yeah, you should you should enjoy your iPhone naked. Did you do as Johnny? I've made it

00:14:35   Yes, did you guys do AppleCare+? Yeah. Yeah, I want to do that. Yeah, I did that too

00:14:41   I went to our local store and

00:14:44   Had a standard line outside the store just to buy AppleCare+ and I was like guys this is why people

00:14:49   I hate the Apple store.

00:14:51   Yeah I didn't have that.

00:14:52   I just walked right in and I found one of the...

00:14:54   Well it must be nice to live in a free country where you can do whatever you want.

00:14:57   But here...

00:14:58   It feels pretty good in this Apple democracy.

00:15:00   Hipster at the Apple store told me to wait outside.

00:15:05   So hipster tyranny.

00:15:07   Yes.

00:15:08   Anything else on new phones?

00:15:10   Federico yours was broken when you bought it right?

00:15:13   Yeah that was quite scary.

00:15:14   So basically I woke up and I drove to the Apple Store, which is just five minutes here

00:15:20   in Rome where I'm staying this week.

00:15:23   So I went there and there was a line, as you guys told me, there was a line for people

00:15:26   who had a reservation.

00:15:29   And it was noon, so there were still a bunch of people in line to get iPhones without a

00:15:33   reservation, so good luck to them.

00:15:36   And so I got my phone and I drove back home and I started using my iPhone.

00:15:42   I was really, really happy.

00:15:43   I started downloading apps, I took a bunch of pictures, I called my mom.

00:15:50   I was really glad to have an iPhone with me and basically after 45 minutes I guess I just

00:15:58   locked my phone because I needed to cook lunch, I was making pasta of course.

00:16:04   So I locked my phone and after a couple of minutes I went to open a Twitter notification

00:16:13   and the screen was not responding to any touch.

00:16:17   I was tapping the screen and nothing was happening.

00:16:21   So I tried to unlock with Touch ID and it didn't work.

00:16:25   I couldn't tap my passcode because touch was not working on the display so I rebooted my

00:16:31   phone and it didn't work.

00:16:33   I rebooted again and it worked.

00:16:37   I was chatting with you guys on iMessage and I was like "what is happening?" and then I

00:16:42   rebooted my phone and I thought that I fixed it.

00:16:45   So I was really happy again.

00:16:47   But then it started happening again and I basically rebooted my phone like 15 to 20

00:16:51   times and the display was just not responding anymore.

00:16:55   So I downloaded the, I thought that it was iOS 8.0.2 I think, and I thought that was

00:17:06   the problem because there were issues with the software update a few days before.

00:17:11   So I downloaded iOS 8 just to make sure that it was not a hardware problem.

00:17:16   I did a restore on the phone and as soon as the iPhone rebooted with a clean install of

00:17:23   by your site, I couldn't even swipe to start the setup process.

00:17:28   That's fine.

00:17:29   That's fine.

00:17:30   So that was my... at that point I realized that maybe the phone was the problem.

00:17:35   So I called the Apple Store and they were like, "Really?"

00:17:40   And I was like, "Yep, the display is just not responding anymore."

00:17:43   So I drove there on launch day and basically I showed the problem to the Apple Store guy.

00:17:51   He called the manager, the manager told me that I would get a replacement and after 10

00:17:57   minutes there was a new iPhone for me and they were super kind, super helpful.

00:18:03   They told me that because I had a business invoice, they were making like an exception

00:18:09   I think because they don't replace broken phones on launch day.

00:18:13   That doesn't seem like a good policy in any stretch of the imagination.

00:18:17   That doesn't seem- Yeah, I know.

00:18:19   I know, they told me if we cannot exchange it, you need to wait until tomorrow morning,

00:18:26   because it was already 6pm.

00:18:27   And you were getting ready to start flipping over some tables.

00:18:30   No, I was ready to pull the MacStories card.

00:18:34   Did you tell them you were a pro blogger?

00:18:36   No, I just showed them the invoice.

00:18:40   Of course, on the invoice I always use my business name and my work email.

00:18:45   So I don't know, Silvia told me that maybe it's because of the website.

00:18:50   I tend to believe that it's just because they do priority stuff for business customers.

00:18:56   Anyway, they replaced my phone and I'm really happy.

00:19:00   And it's been working really well so far.

00:19:02   I love the phone factor and I'm glad I'm using the iPhone a lot.

00:19:09   That was quite scary because it never, never happened to me to have a broken phone, like

00:19:13   Like an effective unit.

00:19:16   So yeah, that's distressing.

00:19:20   I know it's like super first world problem, whatever.

00:19:24   But like to go through the process of whatever it is you need to do, because it's never a

00:19:28   nice thing to get a phone, it's always a pain.

00:19:32   You know what's strange?

00:19:34   You know what's strange?

00:19:35   That the guy that I was talking to in the morning while we were waiting in line, in

00:19:42   In the afternoon the same guy was there too because his iPhone was broken too.

00:19:46   He had a problem with the little vibration thing inside the iPhone.

00:19:55   It was broken on his unit.

00:19:57   So basically the guy bought the iPhone right after me.

00:20:01   Maybe they're just sending all the defective phones to Italy.

00:20:04   It could be.

00:20:06   It could be.

00:20:07   I think that's it.

00:20:08   Maybe some guy at Foxconn just made two broken iPhones and they sold them to us.

00:20:15   I mean stuff definitely happens and I think if you had, even if you weren't a business

00:20:20   client if you had made some noise I think they would have taken care of you.

00:20:24   Right now though at least in the States it's really hard to come by even a 6 right now.

00:20:31   Like the 64 gig 6 is sold out in a lot of stores including our local store here.

00:20:35   I think it's, it would be a little bit tougher now, but on launch day, as long as they have

00:20:40   it in stock, I think most Apple stores would take care of you.

00:20:44   They're nice like that.

00:20:48   So should we maybe get onto some topics?

00:20:51   Yes.

00:20:52   We have topics?

00:20:54   I think so.

00:20:55   Do you want to just wrap it up?

00:20:58   Yeah.

00:20:59   All right.

00:21:00   Bye, everyone.

00:21:01   What about doing two hours of teachy tips?

00:21:03   Okay.

00:21:04   Whenever you're ready.

00:21:05   - Not really.

00:21:06   - Not really.

00:21:07   - So topic zero.

00:21:09   - Yep.

00:21:10   - And we have topic 0.5, which made me laugh.

00:21:13   So this is sort of actually--

00:21:16   - Weird.

00:21:17   - It's weird and was a little unexpected, I think,

00:21:20   or at least I don't keep up with this sort of scene,

00:21:22   but basically Apple is showing off the Apple Watch in Paris

00:21:27   today, right, at a fashion show.

00:21:30   - Mm-hmm.

00:21:31   Well, no, it's at a fashion store.

00:21:33   It's just a-- - Fashion store.

00:21:34   And like Johnny Ive, Mark Newsom, a bunch of people at Apple are in Paris and Johnny

00:21:41   Ive was in Vogue magazine today and it's a very strange day and very like Apple is in

00:21:47   fashion type of news day.

00:21:49   Yeah, so basically overnight this store got outfitted with a window display with Apple

00:21:56   watches and then inside a bunch of demo units which people could go in and take a look of

00:22:02   and they were just cycling through the demo that people had seen at the Apple event, I

00:22:08   think.

00:22:09   But they had a bunch of different configurations out on the desk.

00:22:13   There's a bunch of tweets in the show notes, which you can find at relay.fm/connected/7

00:22:18   or in your favorite podcast app, that show that I was pulling in some stuff of people

00:22:23   that were there and were taking pictures of the devices themselves.

00:22:29   It's interesting.

00:22:31   I wonder if this is part of a tour or if this is the only time we're gonna see it.

00:22:36   Yeah, that was my exact same idea.

00:22:39   I was kind of hoping that it would have one of these events in Rome soon because there's...

00:22:46   Have you guys ever been to Rome?

00:22:48   Myke, of course you haven't.

00:22:49   Steven, you haven't been to Rome.

00:22:52   So there's like this street that is full of boutiques.

00:22:59   So Prada, Gucci and all these other hashtag brands and it would make sense for Apple to

00:23:07   have this kind of Apple Watch event in Rome.

00:23:11   And I would go, you know, I would definitely go there if that was the case.

00:23:17   I would probably try to talk to Marc Newsome because he seems just like a fascinating guy.

00:23:24   Yeah, I feel like they won't be there every time.

00:23:27   Have you guys seen the beer machine that New Zone designed?

00:23:33   Yeah, it's a Mac Pro to be honest.

00:23:36   It's a beer pro, yeah.

00:23:38   Yeah, that's peculiar, I don't really understand that.

00:23:42   Yeah, and I guess that we were extremely right when we did the episode about smart watches

00:23:50   and fashion.

00:23:51   Because look what's happening.

00:23:53   Apple in fashion magazines and doing events in boutiques in Paris and you

00:23:58   know interviews on Vogue. Yeah did you read this this article? Yeah. I've only

00:24:03   read excerpts of it. It's good a lot of it is sort of Johnny Ive history but

00:24:09   there's a good bit too about you know I've you know talking about the watch

00:24:18   being a product that's not like technology first. That the watch is a

00:24:27   beautiful thing you know forgetting the fact that it's a technical achievement

00:24:32   which is an interesting interesting thing. He talks about being able to send

00:24:37   your heartbeat so there's that. The interesting thing that came out of the

00:24:41   Vogue story though is they got access to the watch and to I have weeks before it

00:24:46   was announced. Yeah I saw that. I don't think that's the really interesting part. The really

00:24:50   interesting part is that Bono said that Ivan Nielson finished each other's food.

00:24:55   That's fine. Well I liked, I liked how, did you, did you see Bono's quote? You guys

00:25:01   are gonna have to help me out, I'm having some serious Chrome issues right now so I

00:25:04   can't see the document, but Stephen, can you read the quote that I pulled out?

00:25:08   Yes. When you go out, when you go out for a pint, yeah, thing, when you go out for a

00:25:14   pint with Johnny it's like going for a pint with the future with the future I

00:25:21   love that Bono said that about him and I love the thought that they go for pints

00:25:25   together it's just so there's a story somewhere maybe we can dig it up about

00:25:31   the YouTube iPod and how that was like I've and Bono doing it together yeah

00:25:35   cuz it can't it kind of says that in in the article well that I saw it mentions

00:25:40   that Steve sent Johnny to fix the deal.

00:25:44   - Yeah. - It would appear.

00:25:46   Which is very interesting to me.

00:25:47   - It was Steve, if we can track that down.

00:25:48   But it's, you know, clearly, like,

00:25:51   I've been thinking about this after the weird,

00:25:53   like, Bono, Tim Cook, finger touching thing on stage.

00:25:58   And I was like, well, was Bono friends with Steve,

00:26:02   and he kinda like puts up with Apple,

00:26:03   but it really seems like Apple is like an executive entity,

00:26:06   and U2 or Bono as a brand.

00:26:09   Like, it's not, it wasn't just Steve Jobs.

00:26:12   It's very strange to me.

00:26:14   Like it's a very, very weird combination, but what can you do?

00:26:18   - I saw a commercial for the free U2 album

00:26:22   on the Italian television a few minutes ago.

00:26:25   During the Champions League, you guys follow soccer?

00:26:28   You guys know this sport that we have?

00:26:31   - We love soccer here.

00:26:32   - Yeah?

00:26:33   - We're all about soccer at Relay FM.

00:26:35   Do you guys not think it's interesting at all that Vogue got to see the Apple Watch

00:26:41   in advance?

00:26:42   It's extremely interesting because everybody else was invited to the event and it seems

00:26:48   like Vogue was the only one, unless there's more interviews coming, the only one to get

00:26:54   invited in is, they described it as a situation room at the Apple Campus to see the Apple

00:27:00   Watch weeks before the event.

00:27:03   So I would guess in August or sometime this summer.

00:27:07   And it really says a lot about the kind of people that Apple is going after with the

00:27:14   Apple Watch.

00:27:15   Yeah, it does.

00:27:16   It is.

00:27:17   By the way, what's the deal with the guy with the sunglasses in Paris?

00:27:27   Karl Lagerfeld.

00:27:28   Who is he?

00:27:29   He's a very, very famous designer.

00:27:31   Yeah?

00:27:32   What does he design?

00:27:34   Clothes.

00:27:35   Fashion?

00:27:36   I've just never heard of the guy.

00:27:39   Karl Lagerfeld, I read something about him once, I believe this is him, used to carry

00:27:43   around a briefcase full of iPods.

00:27:46   So he had all of his music with him.

00:27:47   Why?

00:27:48   It's like a fashion Steven.

00:27:49   He had so much music that he used to keep them in a little briefcase.

00:27:55   In many iPods.

00:27:56   Yep, many many different iPods.

00:27:59   The guy looks cool.

00:28:00   Steven, he should dress like that.

00:28:02   You should dress like that Steven.

00:28:04   Where is this picture?

00:28:05   It should be in the...

00:28:06   I mean if you go to the Verge article.

00:28:08   Oh the guy with the older guy.

00:28:10   Steven please start dressing like that.

00:28:12   Yeah I'll get right on that.

00:28:14   Karl Lagerfeld, you should totally dress like that.

00:28:16   You'd look really good.

00:28:17   Carry a briefcase full of K-BASE.

00:28:20   Yeah I mean what else would you put in there?

00:28:21   I'm working on printing it out for my archives.

00:28:24   You're not doing that.

00:28:25   Can we talk about the health app?

00:28:27   Oh yeah.

00:28:28   Yeah why not.

00:28:29   I'm really upset.

00:28:30   Yes and we're gonna let you rant but a little background at launch Apple was

00:28:37   pulling a bunch of health kit equipped apps because the health app itself where

00:28:41   a health kit ties all the stuff together apparently was broken in some way and

00:28:46   now they fixed it with 8.0.2 because 8.0.1 was a cluster and now apps

00:28:53   are out but it's still really janky and I don't know the point of the health app

00:28:58   or why it exists anymore. So, Federico, what's pro-blogged this for us?

00:29:04   Okay, so the problem is that basically only in my Twitter account I got

00:29:12   hundreds of people that told me that the health app integration is totally broken

00:29:18   for several apps such as the Jobon app, such as MyFitnessPal, such as Lifesum

00:29:25   which is another food tracking app and that's been my experience as well because

00:29:29   basically all the data that I enter in apps such as Jobun for sleep tracking and steps

00:29:38   or MyFitnessPal for food that I eat and therefore calories and protein and you know other

00:29:45   data types, they just don't get synced to the health app and as far as I'm concerned they

00:29:55   got lost in the process of integrating these apps with the Apple dashboard.

00:30:02   It means that it's totally and completely useless right now, even if Apple is heavily

00:30:08   featuring apps with health integration on the App Store, and even if they rolled out

00:30:14   the health app again with the iOS 8 update.

00:30:18   And personally, I think that whoever is in charge of handling this health roll-out at

00:30:25   Apple should be ashamed.

00:30:26   Wow.

00:30:27   Yeah, no seriously, you're dealing with extremely personal data and you're dealing with people

00:30:34   like me who are trying to get back in shape after a medical condition.

00:30:38   You're dealing with data that is not...

00:30:41   I mean this is way more personal than maps, which was a total disaster.

00:30:47   I think it's fine that we can say two years after iOS 6 that Maps was a disaster.

00:30:53   And I think that Apple should apologize about the Health app in the same way, because it

00:30:58   just doesn't work.

00:31:00   And there's thousands of people out there who are trying to use Health app for their

00:31:06   personal data about their fitness or about their food tracking apps, and it's just not

00:31:13   working.

00:31:14   And this is confirmed by the fact that if you go read the iOS 8.1 release notes, Apple

00:31:21   mentions that they have a fix for the LTA app.

00:31:24   So I just cannot understand how this kind of major feature that was heavily promoted

00:31:30   at WWDC, that's one of the key features of the Apple Watch, can be rolled out in a major

00:31:38   iOS 8 update.

00:31:41   And it's totally broken.

00:31:42   And how can you at the same time have a feature on the App Store with apps that are supposed

00:31:48   to sync with the Alta app, but they're not?

00:31:51   And at the same time, how can you be aware of this problem?

00:31:55   Because you talk about it in the iOS 8.1 beta, but you say nothing publicly.

00:32:00   And there's people asking companies such as MyFitnessPal, such as Jobbond, why this stuff

00:32:05   is not working.

00:32:06   It just doesn't make sense.

00:32:08   I mean the frustration is definitely something that is real and warranted but it's not like

00:32:15   this is unprecedented.

00:32:16   I mean Apple's had you know a history in the last several years of moving too quickly and

00:32:22   when they do that software is broken and not just on iOS.

00:32:27   I'll notice 10 as well you know there's a lot of they're talking about the chat room

00:32:31   right now a lot of people have been saying you know you know Apple needs to have a snow

00:32:35   leopard moment with iOS and we're going to get to the future of iOS 8 here in a little

00:32:39   while.

00:32:40   But I can't help but look at that and look at health and seeing how broken it is and

00:32:46   you know, the health kit apparently whatever was wrong with it was found very last minute

00:32:50   because they were actively pulling apps off the store.

00:32:54   Clearly they're just moving too quickly and that's scary as Apple extends its reach that

00:33:01   if they're stretched thin now what is going to happen in a year or two years

00:33:05   but they've got to get a handle on it because you know apple they get on stage and they preach you

00:33:14   know we make the hardware the software and the services where like if the software is no good

00:33:20   or just like people are going to think you know the danger with 801 is people think well

00:33:26   I don't need to update iOS as soon as it comes out, I need to wait.

00:33:31   And that's going to hurt Apple and developers in the long term when it comes to things like

00:33:34   adoption rate because people are going to be nervous.

00:33:37   And that's not a situation that Apple wants to find themselves in.

00:33:41   It is a situation that Microsoft is in.

00:33:44   And we're not going to talk about Windows 10 today, hopefully I'm going to have some

00:33:47   thoughts for next week, but that's the problem with Windows and Microsoft is so stuck in

00:33:51   the mud because people don't update and people don't trust that new releases are going to

00:33:55   to be any good. Apple could be in that spot very quickly if they don't get a handle on

00:34:00   this.

00:34:02   Do you think that splitting the release out would benefit them in the long run?

00:34:07   What do you mean?

00:34:09   Well, I mean if Apple release a snow leopard release of iOS, they're going to get bad press

00:34:18   for not doing enough.

00:34:20   Yeah, and that's and that's the that's like the fundamental problem with it is that mobile moves so quickly

00:34:25   That if they if they let you know for now since 2007 they have had

00:34:30   annual releases of iOS and if all of a sudden they do that or if like this 9 to 5 Mac

00:34:36   Article talks about they're gonna do 8.1 8.2 8.3

00:34:40   like that

00:34:43   There is there is a downside to that that people will think that they're moving

00:34:47   Slowly now with os 10 what Apple did to?

00:34:51   Alleviate that is that they didn't charge $129 for snow leopards

00:34:55   No, the bird was the first cheap OS 10 release and then of course, it's free now, but I was is already free

00:35:00   It's like it's sort of there in a different position than OS 10 and there's a lot of

00:35:05   Downside to them doing this but I would argue that that's a temporary

00:35:08   press cycle thing and like if they release a bunch more versions of iOS that are really crappy on day one or day two or

00:35:17   week two or month two that's worse long-term. The funny thing is that I used

00:35:24   to believe that Snow Leopard releases were just not sexy enough for

00:35:29   normal people because I mean we nerds get excited about bug fixes but I was

00:35:34   excited about Snow Leopard. Me too, me too a lot. I drove to my to my local UPS

00:35:40   store to get my Snow Leopard package in advance.

00:35:45   I used to believe that people were not excited about bug fixes, but since last year I genuinely think that people would welcome with open arms an iOS, no leopard that fixes stuff and gets rid of home screen crashes, reboots and other bugs and glitches.

00:36:06   I have friends asking me every time an iOS update comes out whether they should update

00:36:13   because they're constantly seeing problems, such as the Apple logo randomly showing up

00:36:19   with the home screen crash.

00:36:21   And they're like, "Should I update this time?"

00:36:24   And I'm like, "I guess it cannot be worse than the last time."

00:36:31   I think in the past year, especially, Apple has kind of, I wouldn't say destroyed, but

00:36:39   seriously damaged their reputation for stable software.

00:36:44   That's not a good place to be, because Android has been laughed at for years for its instability.

00:36:56   And you know, also to talk about Android, like I think they're not going to slow down

00:37:00   whether they focus on stability or not.

00:37:02   And I think that's the risk for Apple.

00:37:04   If Apple take a year to patch things up, Google will not.

00:37:09   And I think that that is probably why they haven't done it already, if it's why they

00:37:14   wouldn't do it at all.

00:37:16   Just to bring, I'm sorry Stephen, go on.

00:37:18   No, I mean, you know, part of this with Apple is that they do OS X yearly as well.

00:37:24   And there's a lot of us who sit kind of more on the Mac side of the fence and say look

00:37:27   Oh, it's 10 yearly

00:37:28   It's too quick and you see the same thing on OSM to Yosemite gold master is out this week and it's still buggy like

00:37:35   And not just like oh my third-party app doesn't work, right?

00:37:38   It's like finder still quits and I have to reboot my machine so I can do things, you know

00:37:42   Across the board. I think the the company is moving too quickly in the software side of things and

00:37:49   And this 9to5 article is really interesting,

00:37:53   of saying that 8 could be the version of iOS that

00:37:57   does slow down, that they're going to have more

00:38:00   major releases of 8.2 and 8.3.

00:38:02   And maybe iPad multitasking comes at some point.

00:38:05   And maybe Apple Pay comes at some point,

00:38:08   and the Yosemite stuff.

00:38:09   And yes, that's less exciting.

00:38:14   But if Apple has a point update once a quarter that

00:38:18   add something, you get fewer features at once, but maybe you get a better baked feature every

00:38:26   so often as opposed to just a bunch of new stuff all at once.

00:38:32   Part of this is there's still stuff that iOS 7 introduced that developers aren't really

00:38:35   taking advantage of because there's so much stuff.

00:38:38   In two months they say, "Okay, this is when this feature is coming out," and developers

00:38:43   maybe can keep up better as well.

00:38:45   I don't know if this 0.1, 0.2, 0.3 thing means that they're shifting.

00:38:50   I think it's just if you think about what they could potentially be updating for, it makes sense to me.

00:38:55   Like, 0.1 is to fix 8.

00:38:59   0.2 is for whatever the iPad might have in it.

00:39:03   0.3 could be for Apple Pay or to prepare for the watch.

00:39:07   So I don't necessarily think that it means they're going to slow down.

00:39:10   It's just they will give a point release to these big things

00:39:13   that they're going to be integrating any way that we already know about,

00:39:16   that they couldn't do without adding some software features.

00:39:20   I get the thinking around it, but to me personally,

00:39:23   this doesn't say that, oh, they're not going to have nine next year,

00:39:27   because I think they still will.

00:39:29   Yeah, I mean, maybe.

00:39:30   You know, you're definitely right.

00:39:32   This could just be a side effect of everything else

00:39:34   that Apple has going on.

00:39:35   Because right now, as far as we know, iOS 8.0.2

00:39:40   doesn't have support for the watch in it, you know, that we're aware of.

00:39:44   Wait, Steve Trout and Smith would have already pulled it apart, otherwise we'd not.

00:39:51   I just wanted to conclude this segment about the Health app by just saying that the app

00:39:57   that Apple is promoting to let your doctor have access to your personal health data is

00:40:04   broken.

00:40:05   And that really says a lot about, I guess, the QA process at Apple.

00:40:10   Yeah, it's bad news.

00:40:12   And it hurts Health and HealthKit as sort of a sub-brand.

00:40:18   So this is my first phone with a motion coprocessor, so I've got underscores, pedometer++ on it.

00:40:24   It's really great.

00:40:25   But the Health app can do that as well, and it's all the exact same data, because it's

00:40:28   coming from the M8.

00:40:30   And you know, I find myself using I've got David's app on my second home screen because

00:40:36   I it does the one thing it does it really well.

00:40:42   And maybe that will change when health like concert integrating all the stuff and build

00:40:45   a more complete picture.

00:40:46   But right now like health is stuffed off in a folder somewhere because it's not doing

00:40:50   anything valuable at this point.

00:40:52   And if that is the case for another two or three months, I'm going to write health off

00:40:57   like Everett and Passbook and the Apple stocks widget and all these other apps

00:41:02   that Apple bundles that no one wants to use. I'm kind of feel more confident in

00:41:07   the school to get that correctly. Alright should we take a break and thank our

00:41:14   sponsor for this week? Let's do it. So I want to take a moment to thank our

00:41:19   friends over at Smile for sponsoring this week's episode of Connected and I

00:41:23   I want to talk to you about TextExpander Touch.

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00:42:09   You can sync all of these snippets via Dropbox,

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00:42:17   and you can access your snippets

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00:44:11   of Connected and Relay FM.

00:44:14   TextExpander Touch 3.

00:44:17   We're going to go back to our roots today and talk about photo management.

00:44:20   Yay!

00:44:21   Not again?

00:44:22   Really?

00:44:23   Yep.

00:44:24   So there's a link in the chatroom in the show notes to the KBase, which you guys made fun

00:44:28   of me on Twitter.

00:44:31   You might have noticed in iOS 8 that the camera roll is gone, which is weird because the camera

00:44:37   roll has been around since the very first build of iPhone OS.

00:44:43   And kind of what they've done, they've replaced it with something called recently added.

00:44:47   And more or less they have smashed camera roll and photo stream together.

00:44:53   Which is weird.

00:44:54   It's just so bad.

00:44:57   So why do you not like it?

00:45:00   I think there's part of it in "this is what I'm used to" but to me the camera roll and

00:45:06   photo stream are separate.

00:45:10   What I want to get to a bunch of times is the pictures I've taken on this camera that

00:45:15   I have not deleted.

00:45:17   That's what I'm looking for.

00:45:18   Well, Apple agrees with you because apparently in the 8.1 beta the camera rolls back, but

00:45:22   this is still an interesting conversation.

00:45:26   Why do you think they did it?

00:45:28   Do you think it was just because iCloud Photo Library, right?

00:45:32   So it's just kind of like changing things up?

00:45:34   So I think it's...

00:45:36   So when iCloud Photo Library comes out, it's basically going to be iTunes match for your

00:45:39   photos that they're not all stored locally, but you can kind of air quote, "stream your

00:45:46   to your device and tap on it and pull it down.

00:45:52   But part of that is based on the idea of blurring the line of what's stored locally and what's

00:45:58   not and that's kind of what Recently Added does.

00:46:00   So Recently Added, I can take a picture on my iPhone and it's there, but if I take a

00:46:05   picture on my iPad, it's also in Recently Added on both devices.

00:46:09   It's anything new into my photo library.

00:46:12   It's the last thousand like it was on PhotoStream.

00:46:16   I get that, but I agree with you that I do want a filter,

00:46:21   or the camera roll, so this is just what I've taken

00:46:24   just on my, this device.

00:46:27   And PhotoStream is still great,

00:46:29   but it's a little confusing because not everything

00:46:31   is where you expect it to be.

00:46:33   And a lot of third party apps look for camera roll,

00:46:35   specifically, and do weird things,

00:46:38   and recently added double everything up.

00:46:40   Instagram is so upset like it's just like doing weird things

00:46:44   I have an image which shows as the first image whenever I open Instagram like you know you

00:46:49   When you press the button to open up the camera app and it will show you the most recently taken photo

00:46:56   It's a photo I took like three months ago, and it won't go away

00:46:59   And it's not even in my camera roll anymore, but Instagram thinks it's there and it has two of every photo

00:47:04   It's just so sad

00:47:06   Yeah, it's it's weird and you know part of this is obviously

00:47:10   gearing up for

00:47:13   The iCloud photos app which

00:47:17   There's article from I'm or in the show notes. It talks a little bit about that and maybe how this transition will be

00:47:22   but again, this is one of those weird things of like

00:47:24   Apple's doing this and you can even turn on the iCloud photo beta on your iOS device if you're lucky

00:47:31   It doesn't work for everybody. It doesn't work for me

00:47:34   It doesn't work for me either. But that doesn't go anywhere because the Mac site isn't ready yet.

00:47:39   It's like, again, Apple needs all these things to move forward at the same time and they're sort of

00:47:44   you know, left foot, right foot, left foot, right foot, not really knowing about each other and

00:47:49   it makes for an awkward user experience.

00:47:52   iCloud for a library totally works for me. Just letting you know.

00:47:55   Did you see the 95 Mac rumor that there's going to be

00:47:59   probably an iCloud 4 library web app on iCloud.com.

00:48:03   That would be nice.

00:48:04   That would make sense.

00:48:05   Yeah.

00:48:06   That would definitely make sense.

00:48:07   Yeah, I actually prefer many of the iCloud web apps to the desktop apps.

00:48:13   I'm sorry, Stephen.

00:48:17   I'm sorry, man.

00:48:20   I know that you like the desktop.

00:48:22   Just keep apologizing.

00:48:23   That would be great, you know on the this past week's episode of upgrade with Jason Snell

00:48:28   Myke you and he were speaking about the problem of like your Dropbox is bigger than your SSD and

00:48:33   Part of that Jason said Dropbox is kind of a bad photo management solution and you know, we talked a lot about it

00:48:40   There's you know riding on both Federico site and my site about Dropbox as a photo management solution

00:48:46   But he's not wrong

00:48:50   Because like there's no interface for it. You're just using the finder and that sort of janky

00:48:55   Yeah, so I'm looking forward to and I'm gonna give the iCloud photo thing

00:49:00   I'm gonna give it a real shot because I do I do miss

00:49:03   Aspects of iPhoto now iPhoto is a miserable piece of software that thankfully is going away

00:49:09   but it

00:49:11   The idea that I can visually see all my photos and sort through them and filter like that's gonna be great

00:49:17   I mean, I've got like 70 gigs of photos on Dropbox and it's they're all in folders and I can just like blast them and find

00:49:24   her but it's not

00:49:25   That's a photo storage solution. I'm learning more and more. That's not a photo management solution

00:49:31   And so I'm excited for Apple to do this

00:49:33   But for now, it's awkward on iOS. Yeah, like I've had a bunch of people

00:49:37   Like ask me why I'm doing it like having

00:49:41   Sense having said it on upgrade and saying to me, you know people tell me I should try picture live

00:49:47   and I've been thinking about this and my concern is that I just am not

00:49:54   confident that a company can exist and just do photos like as a thing. Not if we

00:50:00   talk about them. Exactly. I feel like it's something that you do as part of another

00:50:06   part of your business like Apple can do it and Google could do it and Yahoo can

00:50:10   do it because it's like an added like a value add to something else. Because it's a feature.

00:50:15   Yeah, it's a feature. That's it. That's exactly it. It's a feature. It's not your business because

00:50:19   It seems that most of the companies that have tried to do this even the ones that we thought were popular

00:50:24   folded

00:50:27   Yeah, yeah

00:50:28   I'm going to I'm going to switch to to die I got four library full-time as well and see see how it works

00:50:34   I'm just concerned about importing like 10 gigs of photos. Yeah, it's gonna be horrible. I'm probably gonna use my Mac mini

00:50:43   Actually, it will be my server. So I would need to ask my developer, you know, I would figure that

00:50:48   I will use my Mac Mini to upload my photos because my Italian connection, you know

00:50:52   I want to do the same thing. iOS 10 comes out and I'm still uploading photos

00:50:56   Yeah, I could just imagine that somehow accidentally all of Federico's family photos get posted to Mac stories

00:51:03   I don't think you know how websites work. I know exactly how websites work. Well, yeah for us

00:51:07   It'll be I mean our streaming is a Mac mini cola. So we could use that machine

00:51:11   There's there's a funny tweet that Kyle the Grey put in that the

00:51:16   Chat room. It's

00:51:19   From Nick poems. I wanted to see if Apple updated the spinning beach ball. So I opened iPhone to freeze my computer

00:51:25   It wasn't updated by the way

00:51:28   That's a little little sad but um, yeah, I mean, you know I photo comes from a world where

00:51:37   The digital hub strategy still made sense where I have a computer and that is the Nexus that is the Sun and all mother things

00:51:43   Are the planets and I go and I put photos there and I look at photos there and I deal with them there

00:51:48   But now like, you know, I want pictures of my kids on my iPad

00:51:53   So if I go see if I remember I can show them those pictures same thing with my phone

00:51:57   and I think iCloud photo could solve that problem where

00:52:01   You know now

00:52:03   One advantage using Dropbox is if I need an image that I don't haven't synced over to the photos app

00:52:08   I could open the Dropbox app and find it now, of course, that's a little janky or you can use something like unbound

00:52:13   But Apple doing this themselves in the photos app theoretically will work much better

00:52:19   As long as it doesn't require health kit

00:52:22   Bob shing

00:52:25   My only concern is that this is going to be like

00:52:30   iTunes match for instance we all try to switch to iTunes match full-time and

00:52:35   Basically by the end of a day the only one left using iTunes matches Steven

00:52:40   Because a third party solution is better

00:52:43   So that's my concern is that I'm going to switch to iCloud library full-time and then two months later. I'm back to picture life

00:52:50   Just like I'm back to well actually you know I'm using beats music

00:52:55   So maybe there's a chance that I will keep using a first-party app for this task.

00:53:01   I don't know.

00:53:02   Sorry, technically first-party.

00:53:04   It's second-party?

00:53:06   Yeah, it's a good way of putting it, actually.

00:53:10   Yeah.

00:53:11   I'm sure there's an actual definition of a second-party app.

00:53:14   I think, Myke, can I have a video game reference?

00:53:18   Yes.

00:53:19   When Microsoft bought Rare Studios,

00:53:23   I think people were calling it a second party company

00:53:27   to Microsoft.

00:53:29   - Yeah, that makes sense.

00:53:31   Like the Pokemon company to Nintendo.

00:53:34   - Yeah, exactly, yeah.

00:53:35   - How you doing, how you doing, Steven?

00:53:38   - Apple's got a couple of those.

00:53:39   - Yeah?

00:53:40   - FileMaker.

00:53:41   - Oh yeah.

00:53:41   - Back in the day, back in the day, Claris works.

00:53:43   Ladies.

00:53:44   All right, so I think that's, that's PhotoStream.

00:53:48   It's going to get better in 8.1, but then I'm sure it's going to be weird again.

00:53:53   The big topic today, though, is not so much a topic, but sort of an interrogation.

00:54:00   I'm just going to read what the topic says in our document.

00:54:03   Why does Federico use the official Twitter app?

00:54:06   Then all capital letters, or why Federico used to use the Twitter app every day.

00:54:13   So we were going to talk about this.

00:54:15   We were talking about this a couple of weeks ago, that we were going to have this episode,

00:54:18   And then obviously Tweetbot 3.5 got released today.

00:54:22   So I'm sure that that's going to change the discussion somewhat.

00:54:25   But I'm still very interested to try and talk to you Federico about this.

00:54:32   When did you switch from Tweetbot to the official app?

00:54:37   I guess sometime in August, early August.

00:54:44   Why?

00:54:47   For a couple of reasons.

00:54:51   The main reason is that too often I think in our circle, in our small corner of the

00:54:59   web, we take software for granted in a way that makes us blind to alternatives.

00:55:07   We for instance know that Tweetbot is the best Twitter client, so we just don't try

00:55:12   anything else. Or we know that Reader is the best RSS client for iOS, so we just use Reader

00:55:19   and we are always skeptical about other apps. And I think one of the best things of the

00:55:26   App Stories that is incredibly democratic in the way that it lets everybody make software.

00:55:32   So I'm always curious to try apps. And I've been, you know, from my stories I was following,

00:55:39   I'm always following updates to major apps such as Facebook or iWork and of course Twitter.

00:55:48   Back when Twitter bought Tweety and turned it into Twitter for iPhone and we remember

00:55:53   various episodes of Twitter adding stuff to Tweety, I was extremely disappointed to see

00:56:05   Tweety turned into something that I didn't like.

00:56:09   So I switched to Tweetbot and I used Tweetbot for two or three years.

00:56:13   And this year I got curious to see the kind of updates that Twitter was adding to their

00:56:22   official app.

00:56:23   Because the app has changed a lot over the years and Twitter as a company has changed

00:56:28   a lot.

00:56:29   So being Twitter, perhaps the social network that I've used the most in my entire life,

00:56:38   It felt silly to me not to at least consider the official app of a service that I use every

00:56:46   day, basically 16 hours a day.

00:56:49   And the service that, you know, thanks to Twitter I got to know you guys, and thanks

00:56:55   to Twitter I got to know my readers or colleagues at Mac Stories, and it just seems short-sighted

00:57:05   to me to ignore Twitter.

00:57:07   Twitter app just because tech geeks think that Tweetbot is better and we shouldn't

00:57:13   try the official app because it's evil and it's bad. So I decided to switch, you know.

00:57:20   I was intrigued by all the features that Twitter was not making available to third-party developers.

00:57:27   And the second reason is that I was putting together our new Mac stories weekly newsletter

00:57:34   and I really really wanted to try the Twitter cards integration for signing up to the newsletter

00:57:41   so, you know, Twitter is not the kind of app or the kind of service that I need to be locked into

00:57:51   I can switch Twitter clients and my tweets will always be there

00:57:55   I can switch Twitter apps and my timeline will always be the same

00:57:59   the same. So it's not a major problem for me to switch from Tweetbot to Twitter app.

00:58:06   But I felt like it was really necessary for me to get a-- in order to get a good understanding

00:58:11   of the Twitter app, I really needed to go full official with the Twitter app. So I just

00:58:19   deleted Tweetbot, and I started using Twitter on my iPhone, and I think a couple of weeks

00:58:25   later on the iPad. It was harder for me to move away from Tweetbot on the iPad because

00:58:32   I really use that app every day on my iPad all the time.

00:58:37   It's sad.

00:58:39   Just muscle memory, it was super difficult for me to learn a new interface and to cope

00:58:49   with new limitations.

00:58:51   And it was quite a process to go through.

00:58:53   And it seems silly, and it seems just one

00:58:57   of those first-world problems, because it's just Twitter,

00:59:00   right?

00:59:00   Most people don't care.

00:59:02   But for me, I'm using Twitter.

00:59:04   Like I said, when I wake up, it's

00:59:07   the first app that I open, because I

00:59:09   want to see my mentions and my messages.

00:59:12   And it's the last app I close when I go to sleep.

00:59:15   So I live and breathe in Twitter.

00:59:18   And yeah, it was difficult to switch.

00:59:23   But I also learned a lot of things, Myke.

00:59:25   So go on and ask me.

00:59:28   I know that you guys have many questions

00:59:30   and I know that Steven was upset

00:59:32   when I was not using prebought.

00:59:35   - We all were.

00:59:36   - Let's go on. - I'm just looking

00:59:37   at it for you, buddy.

00:59:38   - Just go on, I'm ready.

00:59:39   - Yeah, I think before the questions,

00:59:42   I mean, I think what you said about wanting to know

00:59:44   what the Twitter app is like is important,

00:59:47   But it's also learning what Twitter itself is like.

00:59:51   You know, it's the third-party clients,

00:59:53   and I have a conspiracy theory

00:59:55   about third-party Twitter clients

00:59:56   we'll talk about at the end of this,

00:59:57   but you don't really see what Twitter is doing

01:00:01   as a company, as a platform, and a third-party app

01:00:03   the way you do in their own first-party app.

01:00:07   You know, you mentioned Twitter cards.

01:00:08   Like, that's not a thing that Tweetbot does.

01:00:11   And to really understand how you can put content

01:00:14   into Twitter and how people can engage with that,

01:00:16   you had to use their application.

01:00:20   So I think it's a really fair thing to experiment with.

01:00:23   And I've done the same thing,

01:00:25   but once a month I try it for a little while

01:00:27   and usually rage quit it.

01:00:28   But anyways, Myke, to your questions.

01:00:31   - Ads, did I not drive you crazy?

01:00:34   - Well, it's the strange thing.

01:00:39   I haven't seen a single ad in my timeline.

01:00:42   Now, I don't know how this is possible.

01:00:46   I don't know why this is happening to me.

01:00:48   It could be that I'm using Twitter in English,

01:00:52   but I live in Italy, so there's a weird disconnect

01:00:55   between my engagement, I guess, with brands.

01:00:59   I don't know.

01:01:00   I just never seen a single ad in my timeline.

01:01:03   I see a promoted tweet or a promoted account.

01:01:07   Every time I switch to this discovered tab

01:01:10   in the Twitter for iPhone,

01:01:15   I don't see the promoted account on the iPad for some reason.

01:01:18   You've probably forced yourself into a not very well

01:01:23   bought demographic.

01:01:25   A very weird edge case.

01:01:26   Yeah.

01:01:27   The Italian guy who uses Twitter in English.

01:01:30   Yeah.

01:01:32   Probably, yeah.

01:01:33   So that's probably why you're not seeing it as much.

01:01:36   I saw screenshots of people telling me,

01:01:38   why are you not going insane with the ads?

01:01:40   Here's what I see.

01:01:42   And they have these crazy advertisements for apps and games.

01:01:45   Yeah.

01:01:46   Buttons to install.

01:01:47   Yep.

01:01:48   Yeah.

01:01:49   Yeah, probably my reaction would be different.

01:01:53   If I had all these ads in my timeline.

01:01:56   Now the thing that drives me the craziest more than the ads, because I can live with

01:01:59   ads like it's, you know, I mean without, we all do it, but a lot of Twitter is just advertising

01:02:06   anyway.

01:02:07   Like people talking about the thing that they're doing, which so it's not too much of a problem

01:02:11   me to see ads. People retweeting, people who talk about them. In case you missed it yesterday.

01:02:21   But the conversations thing drives me the craziest. So this is where someone will post

01:02:28   a tweet and all of the responses to that tweet get grouped up together, like threaded together

01:02:36   like it's comments, right? Now the way that I work with, the way that I read

01:02:42   Twitter makes this kind of weird because what I will tend to see is Federico will

01:02:46   ask a question on Twitter and I'll be scrolling through and then I might see

01:02:50   like five tweets later, Steven replies, Matt replies, Jason replies, like I

01:02:56   start to see them. But with the way that this this feature works it groups them

01:03:00   together. So as I'm scrolling like reverse chronologically as I do from my

01:03:04   last position up, I will see like Jason replying, Stephen replying, Matt replying,

01:03:10   then Federico's tweet. And that to me makes literally no sense.

01:03:16   See that was strange for me too initially coming from years and years of

01:03:22   tweetbot. Seeing an older tweet being pushed up in the timeline was super

01:03:29   strange. After sticking to the app for two months, I have to say it kind of makes sense.

01:03:41   Because I found that when I'm using Tweetbot and when I see a reply to an older tweet,

01:03:47   I tend to ignore the original tweet. Whereas with the Twitter app, yes, I see the older

01:03:53   tweet multiple times, because every time a person replies to that tweet, the tweet gets

01:03:58   pushed up in the timeline.

01:04:00   But also, the side effect is that I'm--

01:04:03   I hate to say this word, but I'm more engaged

01:04:06   with the original tweet.

01:04:08   And yes, hate me because I use that word,

01:04:10   but Twitter likes to use it.

01:04:11   You're just increasing your brand reachability.

01:04:13   Yeah, reachability, Myke.

01:04:17   I see the tweet multiple times.

01:04:20   And in practical usage, I found interesting links or interesting questions that I wanted

01:04:32   to know the answers to, thanks to the blue line and the replies in the Twitter app.

01:04:40   And yes, it still drives me crazy sometimes that I'm scrolling my timeline for, I don't

01:04:46   20 minutes ago, and then I see a tweet from like 12 hours ago.

01:04:51   But it also helped me

01:04:54   find a bunch of tweets that I liked.

01:04:56   And so there's probably a better way to display that sort of stuff, maybe to make the tweet smaller or

01:05:03   not to use a blue line with the little dots because from a design perspective

01:05:08   it's a little weird, and it could be better.

01:05:10   I think there is a seed to this idea that it's not that bad.

01:05:17   Tell me some of the things that you like about the official apps that you haven't mentioned already.

01:05:22   Well, the Twitter cards have been huge for my stories.

01:05:27   So this is one of those features that you really don't get when you use a third-party client.

01:05:32   And Twitter Carts is not a single feature, it's a set of ways to display tweets in different

01:05:44   ways.

01:05:45   So basically the underlying concept is that tweets are no longer just text.

01:05:51   Tweets can be, of course, images, but also they can be interactive cards, interactive

01:05:56   little boxes that you can click into, that you can, you know, there can be snippets of

01:06:04   web articles, there can be image galleries, there can be sign-up forms for newsletters.

01:06:10   So for MacStories Weekly we support the MailChimp Twitter card which lets us basically directly

01:06:20   in the Twitter app or the Twitter website, you can sign up to our newsletter by entering

01:06:26   your email directly in Twitter and there's this interactive card that does everything

01:06:32   for you.

01:06:33   You don't have to go to a website, you don't have to confirm stuff externally with other

01:06:38   services, it just happens directly into Twitter.

01:06:41   And besides the newsletter, Twitter cards have also been great for Mac Stories, for

01:06:46   the articles that we push out every day.

01:06:49   We support the, I think it's called, rich preview or something, basically each article

01:06:58   as a text snippet and the first image, or you know, not always the first image, but

01:07:04   you can decide to create this rich snippet for an article that basically shows you a

01:07:11   photo, a couple of sentences and the post title.

01:07:15   So in practical terms it means that our readers can see whether an article is interesting

01:07:21   before clicking.

01:07:23   And you could say "yeah, but that's a problem" and I totally agree because without the preview

01:07:30   you always get the click because people are curious.

01:07:34   But the side effect is that sometimes people don't click anyway, so the richer the preview

01:07:42   the higher the chance is that someone is going to click, because maybe they like the screenshot,

01:07:47   or maybe because they like those couple of sentences that get pushed into the tweet.

01:07:54   And there's a bunch of other features for cards that I've tried, but these two are the

01:08:01   ones that stood out the most to me.

01:08:04   And this is something that you really, really don't get when you use a third-party app,

01:08:08   Because you just see a cards.twitter.com link and you cannot do anything else.

01:08:15   You need to go to the web.

01:08:16   I mean, I definitely understand that being a positive, especially as someone who is producing

01:08:21   content to share on Twitter.

01:08:23   But there's a lot of things like I dislike that I can see what people favor.

01:08:29   The whole Discovery tab seems really crazy to me that, "Oh, I can go and see that Federico

01:08:34   favorited something that this other person said."

01:08:38   And I think that's, you know, probably obviously a minority opinion that people do like that

01:08:46   sort of thing.

01:08:47   But to me the problem with the Twitter app is there's so much noise, that there's so

01:08:49   much stuff that it does that's beyond what Tweetbot or Twitterrific do that doesn't add

01:08:56   any value to me.

01:08:57   If those things were valuable I would be there, but I find them just to be noisy distractions.

01:09:04   Well they're definitely different from the kind of experience that you get in Tweetbot

01:09:07   Twitter refic. And I also think that those apps are... they reflect the way that

01:09:15   Twitter used to be and the way that we think of Twitter, but the real Twitter is

01:09:23   not that experience anymore. And it looks like... I think that the kind of experience

01:09:32   will not last forever. And I hate to say it because I love Tweetbot so much. And in fact,

01:09:42   today there's Tweetbot 3.5 and I'm going to talk about this in a bit. But I think that

01:09:50   it was a good choice for me to try the Twitter app because it kind of prepared me to what

01:09:57   may happen someday and the transition may not be that terrible for me because

01:10:02   I know what I'm running into.

01:10:05   I wanted to ask you quickly about the cards though because it seems very much

01:10:11   like I ask you what's good about it and you tell me a feature that's good for

01:10:15   your website like is that... do you like cards because they're good for Mac

01:10:21   stories or do they really make your experience of reading Twitter better?

01:10:25   They also work for me personally, besides my stories, because I follow a lot of websites on Twitter.

01:10:34   I follow, I think, more than a thousand accounts.

01:10:37   So I get a lot of news in my timeline.

01:10:40   And with the cards preview, I can get an idea of an article before I click.

01:10:46   And especially in the Twitter for iOS, web views are full screen, they interrupt you.

01:10:56   Every time you click a link you need to wait for the web page to load.

01:10:59   So when you use CART you can get a richer preview, so you can instantly know whether you want to

01:11:06   "Yes, I want to go ahead and click this article and open the web view" or "No, I just want to go back to my timeline".

01:11:12   So besides make-a-story, they've been useful to me from a user perspective.

01:11:18   Okay. Is there anything else specific that you want to talk about before we talk about Tweetbot in regards to Twitter?

01:11:26   Do you like the official service?

01:11:28   Yes, the new profile view. I think it's really awesome.

01:11:33   What do you like about it?

01:11:35   It was launched a couple of weeks ago and I like its simplicity and its

01:11:41   obviousness once you use it because in this new profile view on the iPhone you

01:11:47   get three tabs to switch between all your tweets, all your photos and all your

01:11:52   favorites and it's just so simple and it makes just so much sense to see all the

01:11:58   tweets from user, all of their photos and all of their favorite

01:12:03   tweets and especially the photos tab has been a revelation for me

01:12:09   because even just going to my own profile I can scroll back and see

01:12:15   all the photos that I ever shared on Twitter and that's not possible with

01:12:20   other apps and yeah it's so simple but so nicely done and I

01:12:27   kind of wish that tweetbot that sort of feature. Even if tweetbot of course has

01:12:32   many other things. So yeah because it only shows a grid of like what 12 or

01:12:36   something of your most recent photos. Yeah I think that's an API problem

01:12:41   possibly I don't know. And of course if you do that you can do that magical thing

01:12:45   on the connected FM Twitter account. Which also sort of works in Tweetbot for iOS but not

01:12:51   as much fun. You know I think I think the point about the things that Tweetbot

01:12:57   does do, for me at least, is it's why I'm there.

01:13:02   The muting is so good that it syncs with settings

01:13:05   over to the Mac and iPad and everything.

01:13:08   And Tweetbot does do a lot of things.

01:13:10   And I agree with you Federico, it is a client

01:13:13   from a past version of Twitter.

01:13:15   And, you know, what was it, two or three years ago

01:13:20   they had that talk with the Quadrant

01:13:22   and like don't make Twitter apps anymore.

01:13:24   - Yeah.

01:13:25   100,000 user tokens and it definitely has slowed down and I mean I think I can

01:13:32   imagine that might be part of the factor when it comes to tweetbot for iPad not

01:13:36   being updated but I can't help but think that you know Twitter can come in and

01:13:41   shut all this down right they could lock everybody into using their app and their

01:13:45   version of what Twitter should be as a service which is a vision that I

01:13:49   personally disagree with I like the old version much better I think the new one

01:13:52   does a lot of things that aren't particularly interesting but just get in the way.

01:13:58   But I can't help but wonder like does Twitter keep things like tweetbot and Twitterfic around,

01:14:03   keep them working, kind of keep them limping along to keep people like me on Twitter.

01:14:09   And I mean if I had to use the first party app like I would still use Twitter I'm not

01:14:13   saying that I would leave because of that decision.

01:14:16   But I can't help but...

01:14:17   You should go to app.net.

01:14:18   Yeah, let's go to app.net.

01:14:21   But I can't help but think that they allow these third party, sort of legacy type apps

01:14:25   to continue to work to help kind of create a little nook for these hardcore original

01:14:32   users to stay happy.

01:14:34   And they sort of pacify us by saying, yeah, you can use your app to do all these crazy

01:14:37   things, you're not going to get a bunch of new stuff, but that's okay because you don't

01:14:40   want the new stuff.

01:14:41   >> Yeah, I guess that's my idea as well.

01:14:45   At some point the API is going to break eventually, I guess.

01:14:49   There's going to be some legacy support for APIs for at least a couple of years and we

01:14:55   will be happy using our legacy clients.

01:15:00   But I do think that Twitter doesn't care about people like us who swear by Tweetbot.

01:15:08   I think there's a level of cluelessness too.

01:15:12   Myke and I went with a bunch of the people at WODC.

01:15:16   we watched the keynote live at Twitter,

01:15:18   which is really cool and very cool Twitter invite us,

01:15:21   but they had a presentation before the Apple keynote started

01:15:26   and this woman was walking through the iOS versions

01:15:30   of the Twitter app, which is like,

01:15:32   the audience in that room, I promise you,

01:15:34   a very small percentage of them maybe were using

01:15:36   the first party client.

01:15:37   Like you're speaking to Tweetbot and Twitter users

01:15:40   and you're like, yeah, we bought Tweety

01:15:43   and then we ruined it.

01:15:44   and it's like, it was tone deaf in the room.

01:15:48   And I look at Twitter and I look about the people like me

01:15:50   and people who use Twitter like I do,

01:15:53   and there is a level of like tone deafness

01:15:57   to what at least the original users want.

01:16:00   Now, I understand that I'm not,

01:16:02   like Twitter doesn't care about me, right?

01:16:04   Like they need to grow and they're a public company

01:16:07   and they need to keep investors happy

01:16:10   and they need to keep the numbers getting bigger and bigger

01:16:12   And so clearly that's what this is all about.

01:16:15   And a lot of what Twitter's done over the last couple years

01:16:16   is specifically targeted towards people with brands.

01:16:20   And that's fine, I don't begrudge them trying

01:16:22   to make a living, but there is that sort of like,

01:16:26   friction of Twitter used to be this thing,

01:16:29   and now it's not that thing anymore,

01:16:30   but it still kind of is that thing if you use the right app.

01:16:33   And it's a very awkward thing, and I think you using

01:16:36   the Twitter app for the last couple months,

01:16:39   I think that really highlights that friction,

01:16:41   that there is two different worlds within Twitter,

01:16:44   and the world that we know and that we knew is slowly fading.

01:16:50   Yeah, and see, that's a problem that's very unique to Twitter.

01:16:55   Because at least I've never seen people complaining

01:16:58   about a Facebook client that doesn't work,

01:17:02   because the Facebook first party app is more supported.

01:17:07   It seems to me that Twitter is in this unique position

01:17:10   having this kind of split user base and you know there's a... There's a bed that they

01:17:16   made though. The reason we don't have that on Facebook is because they don't have an API.

01:17:20   Well they have some kind of API. Yeah but they don't have an API in which you could create a

01:17:26   third-party client. Right not like Twitter does. I mean they have things to share to Facebook but

01:17:31   it's a different level of access than what Tweetbot has for Twitter. The Twitter API gives pretty much

01:17:36   much full access to the service with some exclusions, or at least it used to.

01:17:41   And Facebook have never had that.

01:17:43   That's why we don't see many other companies with this problem.

01:17:47   I guess that also because Twitter seems to be the more geek-friendly

01:17:53   social network out there.

01:17:55   It's geek-friendly because of the API.

01:17:57   Like that is why.

01:17:58   Yeah, I think it is geek-friendly because of the concept of Twitter.

01:18:02   And because it's short status messages, it's meant for sharing.

01:18:07   I mean, it's great for sharing links, and it's great for search.

01:18:12   It's got all these features that seem to me to be extremely geek-friendly.

01:18:17   And maybe it's because of the history of Twitter.

01:18:19   The user base shaped Twitter and many of its conventions,

01:18:27   whereas Facebook just kind of became popular.

01:18:32   And I could be wrong, but it seems to me that there was an audience of designers and developers

01:18:39   making Twitter what it is today.

01:18:42   And therefore it's just not an API problem.

01:18:45   It's also, I guess, a culture problem of these two user bases in Twitter, the tech geeks

01:18:53   and the people who know Tweetbot and the rest of the world.

01:18:57   And it's interesting.

01:18:58   And definitely using the first party Twitter app kind of made me see these differences.

01:19:07   And I know many other people, even in our little corner of the web, using Twitter as

01:19:12   their main app, I saw a bunch of tweets lately from...

01:19:17   Yeah, I don't remember the people, but I saw some people.

01:19:20   I see people, you know?

01:19:21   Cable Sasa famously uses the Diffisho app.

01:19:24   Oh yeah?

01:19:25   Yeah.

01:19:26   Nice.

01:19:27   ask the same question too. So yeah, using Twitter made me more conscious of the

01:19:38   kind of features that everybody else sees in Twitter and I kind of get

01:19:45   Twitter more now because I use this thing every day. But also the

01:19:49   consequence of that is that the changes introduced in 3.5 today

01:19:56   make me really really happy and so since last week I've been using Tweetbot as

01:20:03   my main client again and you know I'm in love with Tweetbot, I'm just you know

01:20:09   it's the app that I know, it's the app that I saw evolve from

01:20:15   the first version, from the first beta that I got three years ago and it's got

01:20:21   all these geeky features that I love, it's got sync of my timeline which was

01:20:25   driving me crazy, in Twitter for iOS. It's got extensions in iOS 8, so it makes me

01:20:33   more productive because I follow a lot of websites, I need to find a lot

01:20:38   of links and now I can save those links with extensions and it's great and it's

01:20:43   got that attention to the geeky details that I appreciate. But like I said,

01:20:49   I fear that it's going away, that it's going to die eventually.

01:20:57   So I'm using it, but it feels like one of those relationships that are...

01:21:05   They are doomed.

01:21:08   So I have a thought exercise.

01:21:12   So I was thinking about this today.

01:21:16   We are all concerned, maybe not you anymore Federico, but there is a growing concern that

01:21:22   our Twitter, right, that we use, us nerds, is doomed and bound by the official Twitter

01:21:30   app.

01:21:33   I was thinking about Tweetbot and the fact that we all use Tweetbot and when we want

01:21:40   to wait for Tweetbot to do something, we are bound by Tatbots and whatever they want to

01:21:45   do. So we all want a better iPad client but we need to wait for Tweetbot on the

01:21:51   iPad which we've waited for. Everybody expected it, whether it should

01:21:56   or should not have been made. People expected it to come a year ago

01:21:59   and it will be coming at some point now in the not too distant future.

01:22:06   So Twitter the company has put Twitter users and Twitter developers into a

01:22:14   situation where third-party apps cannot exist anymore so there is no longer any

01:22:19   competition. Tapbots kind of has this market sewn up. So there's nobody

01:22:26   pushing them so they're not really necessarily pushed to develop any faster

01:22:29   Twitter's not making it any easier for them but is Tapbots' current

01:22:35   domination of this part of the market to a large extent as damaging to our

01:22:41   our Twitter world as the official app is?

01:22:44   Are we being restricted by them or Twitter, depending on

01:22:48   how we look at it?

01:22:51   That's a great question, Myke.

01:22:53   I think that many of us--

01:22:59   that's a problem that I was talking about when we started

01:23:03   this discussion.

01:23:05   We tend to think of Twitter as tweetbot.

01:23:11   And we're concerned and we are afraid to try the Twitter app,

01:23:20   because we think that everything we need is in tweetbot.

01:23:25   So if Tapbots doesn't update tweetbot,

01:23:28   it means that Twitter for this group of nerds

01:23:32   is not evolving, is not growing.

01:23:34   because we're still using Tweetbot on the iPad for iOS 6.

01:23:38   And it's such a strange situation,

01:23:41   because on the one hand, you have a big company that

01:23:45   has an app you don't like and that is making changes

01:23:48   you don't like because you're a nerd and you don't want ads,

01:23:53   you don't want to follow celebrities.

01:23:55   And on the other hand, you have these developers that you love.

01:24:00   But they are slow.

01:24:02   They take their time.

01:24:03   there's still no new tweetbot app for the iPad.

01:24:07   - This might be like nostalgia,

01:24:11   but I feel like they used to be faster.

01:24:13   - Yeah, I don't know.

01:24:16   - I know it's an unpopular view, right?

01:24:18   Because I'm kind of criticizing

01:24:20   a well-loved third-party developer

01:24:23   and people don't like that.

01:24:24   I can tell it's making you uncomfortable,

01:24:28   but it's merely a thought that I'm having.

01:24:32   And I don't begrudge them for it.

01:24:34   They are not necessarily incentivized,

01:24:36   and nobody's pushing them.

01:24:38   So they can work at the pace that they want to work at.

01:24:41   Could it be-- so let me just say this.

01:24:42   Could it be that because many tech nerds don't

01:24:48   get the iPad as a device, they're

01:24:52   less incentivized to update Tweetbot for the iPad?

01:24:56   Because that, personally, I think

01:24:58   that's a problem with many other apps that I'm using.

01:25:01   because the typical iOS and Mac nerd uses a Mac and the iPhone.

01:25:08   The iPad seems to be the kind of device that normal people use,

01:25:14   like my dad uses the iPad,

01:25:16   or I use the iPad because I'm just strange like that.

01:25:20   But developers cannot program on the iPad,

01:25:23   so they just use a Mac and an iPhone to try iOS apps.

01:25:27   -But the fact that they are working on it now

01:25:30   proves that there was at least an incentive enough financially for them to do it in the

01:25:35   first place?

01:25:36   Well, maybe it's disincentive from Twitter that if Twitter has already come down and

01:25:40   said look, like this is the situation, I could see not wanting to make an investment until

01:25:47   you know a set amount of time has passed and you feel safe about that investment.

01:25:50   You know it's expensive to make an app and you make it in the Twitter, the company that

01:25:54   like Twitter pulls the plug on Tweetbot like Tweetbot is dead.

01:25:58   Like no way around it.

01:26:00   And so I can understand a hesitancy to spend a lot of time and effort on it, you know,

01:26:06   for getting all the other market forces.

01:26:08   Like if Twitter pushes the button, then you're just SOL.

01:26:14   Yes, but then on that same view, would it not be beneficial to try and get as much money

01:26:21   out of it now before they pull the plug and you've not had the opportunity to do it at

01:26:25   all?

01:26:26   Maybe.

01:26:27   And maybe that's what they've done with charging.

01:26:28   I mean, they charge for three, I think partially for that reason.

01:26:31   Yeah.

01:26:31   It's complicated.

01:26:33   I mean, it's complicated.

01:26:34   It is complicated.

01:26:34   And I don't envy anyone's position where you are building something or you're creating

01:26:39   something that is solely, like, it's dependent on someone else.

01:26:42   Someone else has all the power.

01:26:43   It's a terrible situation to be in.

01:26:45   Yeah.

01:26:46   Like, you know, and I want to make it clear, I am a big fan of the work of Tapbots in general,

01:26:53   but it was merely just a, like, you know, we are concerned about what Twitter's doing,

01:26:58   I just wonder like we are also kind of in our third party world, we're kind of

01:27:02   bound by one company now too.

01:27:04   And I was just thinking about this because.

01:27:06   Poor Twitterific.

01:27:08   Well, yeah, but you didn't even mention them.

01:27:10   Well, it's just not the app that it just, Twitterific fundamentally does things.

01:27:15   Not the way that I like.

01:27:16   So it's not an app that I use.

01:27:18   It's been available to me.

01:27:19   I've tried them out a bunch of times and we spoke about it on the prompt.

01:27:22   There's things that they do like with the way that timelines refresh.

01:27:25   They just simply, for me, when I wake up in the morning, it does not pull in all the tweets.

01:27:30   It just does not do it.

01:27:31   Fundamentally, it will break somewhere, and that is a huge thing for me for why I don't consider them.

01:27:36   And also, I mean, it is a shame because they used to be the best, but they're not considered the best anymore.

01:27:42   Yeah, and I can tell you, based on my audience, people go crazy with tweetbot news.

01:27:49   Just, it's insane.

01:27:52   And it's by far the most, at least from what I see, but you know, in five years of

01:27:57   Mac stories, I think that my, you know, the stuff that I see tends to be pretty

01:28:02   representative of this kind of audience.

01:28:04   Tweetbot is huge among our, you know, circle of people on the web.

01:28:10   And, uh, I feel like I see like people using Twitterrific as much as I see

01:28:17   people using twitter.app.

01:28:18   Like just, this is very anecdotal.

01:28:21   But like when I see people using it, I'm like, "Huh, that's interesting."

01:28:27   I kind of, I don't want to say this, and it's very sad, but in the end, I just think that,

01:28:37   you know, we don't matter to Twitter.

01:28:41   And this problem of third-party Twitter clients, I think that to most people is absurd.

01:28:49   And it just doesn't matter because, okay, yes, it's probably, what, one or two million

01:28:55   people who are going to be upset because an API is going to break.

01:28:59   Does that matter in the big picture of Twitter trying to let the world communicate?

01:29:06   It's sad because I make a living out of apps and I've been using Tweetbot for years.

01:29:12   And I just think that, you know, we don't matter.

01:29:16   It's just an API, an API breaks, an API stops working, and eventually we will remember this

01:29:27   kind of stuff as much as Steven remembers apps for the classic Mac OS.

01:29:32   We can't tweet bot tattoos.

01:29:36   Too late bro.

01:29:39   I think that that does lend into what Steven was saying about the conspiracy idea, right?

01:29:45   We just don't matter to Twitter.

01:29:47   So they're just like, just let those guys have their thing, because they're just not

01:29:50   important to us.

01:29:53   There is a potential.

01:29:54   And I think, I hope that that's how they feel.

01:29:57   And that there's not like a calendar and every day they take one more day away, which is

01:30:02   counting down to zero.

01:30:05   Definitely do.

01:30:06   That's why security was so tight when we were there.

01:30:08   They're high in the calendar room.

01:30:12   The only encouraging rumor that I saw is that there is the Twitter developer conference

01:30:18   coming up.

01:30:20   And I saw a rumor, I think on TechCrunch or some other tech blog, I can remember, of this

01:30:25   new developer technology called Twitter Fabric, which is supposedly a new set of APIs for

01:30:33   developers to build Twitter apps.

01:30:35   That feels like that will replace the current set.

01:30:38   Exactly.

01:30:39   So...

01:30:40   That's not a good thing.

01:30:41   - It's a terrible thing.

01:30:42   - Yes, I saw people kind of optimistic about,

01:30:45   "Oh, new Twitter fabric, this means good news."

01:30:49   I'm like, "Yeah, probably going to be the,

01:30:52   you know, the current APIs are going to be replaced."

01:30:56   And that's going to be fun.

01:30:59   - Just find and replace the next code, done.

01:31:02   - Now, what I want to see is you two using the Twitter app.

01:31:08   - Nah, you're okay.

01:31:10   [laughter]

01:31:12   You laugh now, but we will see when you will have to adapt eventually.

01:31:18   And you know, live without timeline sync or background refresh.

01:31:22   You know?

01:31:23   It's not happening.

01:31:24   Extensions, yeah?

01:31:26   It's been quite of a journey for me, you know?

01:31:30   To get used to this stuff.

01:31:31   Well I'm pleased that you're back with, you know, in reality again.

01:31:35   Yeah.

01:31:36   It's true.

01:31:37   Alright so that about, that's about it for this week's episode of Connected.

01:31:41   If you'd like to find the show notes for this week's episode go to relay.fm/connected/7.

01:31:47   If you'd like to get in touch with us you can also find a contact button there and you can

01:31:51   also tweet at us. I am iMyke, I am yke, Federico is @Vittici, V-I-T-I-C-C-I and Steven is @ismh.

01:31:59   Federico writes over at maxstories.net and Steven at 5topixels.net.

01:32:06   Don't forget to check out all of the other fantastic podcasts that we have for you at Relay.fm.

01:32:12   We'll be back next week with another episode of Connected. Until then, bye-bye.

01:32:18   Arrivederci.

01:32:19   Adios.