3: Double Secret Briefing Area


00:00:00   Hey guys, it's Stephen. Before the show started, I wanted to take a little time and remind

00:00:04   everybody that September is National Childhood Cancer Awareness Month. Here in 2014, cancer

00:00:10   is still the leading cause of death for children in the United States, despite amazing breakthroughs

00:00:15   in both medicine and science. At the forefront of this battle is St. Jude Children's Research

00:00:20   Hospital right here in Memphis, Tennessee, my own backyard. Each year, St. Jude treats

00:00:25   thousands of kids, including my own, without charging their families for a single appointment,

00:00:31   meal or night of housing.

00:00:33   All the research St. Jude does into the human genome, treatment options and more is freely

00:00:38   shared with the medical community at large.

00:00:41   St. Jude's operating costs are $2 million a day and the doors stay open at the generosity

00:00:46   of the public.

00:00:48   Let's make September about these kids, about my kid and these families.

00:00:53   You can learn more and donate at 512pixels.net/September.

00:00:58   Thanks.

00:00:59   [MUSIC PLAYING]

00:01:06   Hello and welcome to episode number three

00:01:09   of Connected on Relay FM.

00:01:11   Today is September 3, 2014.

00:01:14   This episode of Connected is brought to you by Igloo,

00:01:17   ICONIC, and Squarespace.

00:01:19   And we're going to tell you about those guys and gals

00:01:21   a little bit later on in the show.

00:01:23   My name is Myke Hurley.

00:01:24   Today I am joined by Mr. Steven Hackett.

00:01:27   Hello, sir.

00:01:28   - Hello, sir.

00:01:29   - And that is it.

00:01:30   - Federico's off celebrating.

00:01:34   - Federico's a party, listeners of The Prompt

00:01:39   may remember La Machina, which we spoke about before.

00:01:42   It's that time of year again.

00:01:44   So that's where Federico is.

00:01:46   He is at La Machina.

00:01:48   - Was that episode three last time?

00:01:51   No no episode 12 according to Google yeah so yes Federico will be back next

00:01:58   week we are joined by Jason Snell in a little while but first we have some

00:02:02   follow-up follow-up sorry yeah we don't do the sound anymore can't help it so

00:02:08   underscore David Smith did the best thing ever the best thing ever so good

00:02:14   so there is now a official Safari extension that switches episode numbers

00:02:19   on relay.fm to Roman numerals. Now it is all episode numbers so my

00:02:26   standpoint was this should just be connected but you should definitely

00:02:29   download this and change the way that our site works in your browser. You

00:02:33   shouldn't have a bias for one show anymore. But yeah. Technically they're

00:02:39   all your shows. I mean they're more my shows but they're... Wow. I'm on the

00:02:44   more what do you want from me I'm very tired I'm drawing my redrawing my

00:02:51   contract real quick you're gonna be my co-host on every show now yes okay cool

00:02:57   just checking so this is awesome and you should run it in Safari and if you don't

00:03:03   run Safari you should switch to Safari so you can do it I'm are you running it

00:03:06   Myke I'm running it I use Chrome so look at me I need Google Docs like what do

00:03:12   you want from me. It works in Yosemite Safari. Oh really? I'm in it

00:03:17   right now yeah it's great. What Google Docs? Yes because it does not work in

00:03:22   Safari and Mavericks at all. This is great news because it doesn't seem like

00:03:26   Chrome are gonna do a lot to support the new extensions in iOS so I probably will

00:03:31   want to switch back to Safari. Yes. But I like you know tab syncing and I like

00:03:36   shared history and that sort of stuff so yes so I'll be happy. The next

00:03:41   follow-up item is in our document called "Steven is a liar" and so Paul Lu on on

00:03:52   Twitter says "ismh you never said why you don't like my fitness pal" which is

00:03:57   true I think I said that I would say why I didn't like it but then I didn't say

00:04:01   why I didn't like it and now I will say why I don't like it. I don't know I

00:04:04   assumed Federico put that in there and said you were a liar I don't think it was me and that

00:04:09   That definitely seems like something you would say.

00:04:12   It's pretty funny.

00:04:14   So MyFitnessPal is, it's a fine app, I don't want to disparage any developer, but it does

00:04:22   some things that I don't really care for, especially on the marketing side.

00:04:27   Like they send a lot of emails and they're really big into the social end of it and I

00:04:32   don't particularly care if Myke knows how much I weigh.

00:04:35   Like I don't care for the social aspect of it and so LoseIt is a little more sort of

00:04:39   Solitary and lose it does do I think some social stuff on their website, but it's sort of a different thing

00:04:44   My fitness pal is great. It's extremely popular. It's just I like the way that lose it sort of works and looks

00:04:52   For me so not really anything like groundbreaking there, but it's kind of how it is just don't like how it looks I understand

00:05:01   What's next in the follow-up Stephen Hackett, oh yes next in the

00:05:09   follow up item is the iPod halo effect and so we spoke what two weeks ago about

00:05:16   the iPod and we kind of passed over it about the the iPod halo effect and so we

00:05:25   got some we got a link from Becky Hansmeyer who has this this great blog

00:05:31   post about her iPod collection and kind of how that how that sort of unfolded

00:05:38   over history, over history. And the the closing of this blog post really grabbed my attention.

00:05:43   And it was the iPod was more than a music player. It was my first real introduction

00:05:49   into all things Apple. It was prompted my first white iBook by a black MacBook and then

00:05:54   a MacBook Pro. And I think Becky story is really common that that people bought an iPod

00:06:02   and then ended up with a Mac. And we spoke a little bit about that even on the show with

00:06:07   Federico and and the kind of his his gateway into Apple and I I went the

00:06:13   iPod route you know I apologize I had and and then to the rest I am I was Mac

00:06:20   first but of course you were it but uh yeah so I took up this article for Mac

00:06:25   world from 2006 written by Jim Darrow pull about how the iPod changed Apple's

00:06:31   fortune. So in this article Jim talks about the Mac business at the time that

00:06:37   the iPod was introduced and then in the fourth quarter of 2006 you know 746

00:06:44   thousand Macs versus 1.6 million Macs and it's you know I think it's very

00:06:50   clear you look at those numbers and you look at stories like yours and Federico's

00:06:53   and Becky's and lots of other people the iPod really was a gateway drug to the

00:06:59   sort of Apple ecosystem and that's kind of what we mean by halo effect that you

00:07:03   know you you pick this one device and it radiates outward and I think that that's

00:07:08   definitely true of the iPod I think it's true to maybe a lesser degree for the

00:07:14   for the iPhone and iPad and I don't know about you Myke but I think the stuff

00:07:19   with iOS 8 and handoff and continuity and all that stuff like that's even a

00:07:22   bigger like a bigger push into making iOS you know kind of recapture some of

00:07:28   that. Definitely. I mean it was my story you know that that that's how I got into

00:07:34   all this stuff. Like the iPod wasn't just my kind of halo into Apple it was my

00:07:38   halo into technology really you know in general. It was a big thing for me.

00:07:44   Yeah and you know Apple's obviously a different company than they were in 2001

00:07:49   right. The Mac was if the Mac is the underdog now it definitely was in 2001.

00:07:54   I mean just the iMac was just two years old at that point and so it is a

00:07:59   different different world now but I still think that that Apple can benefit

00:08:03   from that you know Apple does best when the consumer is using kind of Apple

00:08:08   end-to-end right iCloud is that glue that holds these devices together and so

00:08:13   to look at the iPod or iPhone and say you know what like this is a great

00:08:16   device and they work well together but if you have a Mac like it really work

00:08:20   well together I could say it's a whole nother level of productivity and

00:08:24   integration, that's not a bad thing for Apple at all.

00:08:27   So we're about to take a break for our first sponsor of this

00:08:32   week's episode. And when we come back, we're going to be joined

00:08:35   by Mr. Jason Snell. So you can look forward to that. But first,

00:08:39   let me tell you about our friends over at Igloo. We do

00:08:44   love Igloo. Igloo have been with us since the start of the launch

00:08:47   of this fine podcast network of which Connected is a part of. So

00:08:52   Igloo is the internet that you will actually like because it's built with you in mind.

00:08:57   They have super easy to use apps like shared calendars, twitter-like micro blogs, file sharing

00:09:03   and oh so much more. And these all integrate into Igloo's fantastic internet platform and are really

00:09:08   simple to set up and configure to exactly how you need and want them to be. Everything that you're

00:09:13   going to need with Igloo is built right in and everything is social. This means that when you

00:09:17   upload a file to your igloo? Maybe you write a blog post or you upload a music track you've

00:09:24   been working on over the weekend to share with some co-workers. Your team can share it around

00:09:27   with each other, they can comment on it, rate it, like it. This is just like the social apps that

00:09:31   you're used to using every single day. It's like bringing those conventions, the stuff that you're

00:09:36   used to talking with your friends into your conversations with your co-workers too. It just

00:09:42   helps bridge that gap a little bit. With igloo's latest release you can also manage all of the

00:09:46   tasks that are associated with your content. Like, for example, updating the

00:09:51   show notes for this week's episode. I can give Stephen the task of doing all the

00:09:56   follow-up. I can give Federico the task of taking the week off if he likes. And I

00:10:02   can delegate actions after this week's show, you know, maybe to do some editing

00:10:06   or something like that to me if necessary. This is the type of stuff that

00:10:09   you can do in Igloo. You can give people little tasks to do and all of this is

00:10:13   integrated right into their intranet platform. And this was just released, this functionality,

00:10:17   out to all igloo customers with their most recent unicorn release. Igloo's task management is

00:10:22   designed for people. You can manage your projects, your personal to-dos and everything in between,

00:10:27   in one unified view, all inside your intranet. Igloo have really built something that's going

00:10:32   to help you keep on top of your work, as well as interact with your co-workers. If your company has

00:10:38   a legacy intranet built on SharePoint or old portal technology, you should be giving Igloo a try.

00:10:43   or if you just want to be more connected, more social, more productive in your workplace,

00:10:46   igloo is for you. And it is free to use with up to 10 people and you can sign up today

00:10:52   at igloosoftware.com/connected. Thank you so much for igloo for supporting us at this show

00:11:02   and all of Relay FM. We love you igloo, even if I can't say it sometimes. I just get so choked

00:11:08   up when I think about you. Show your support to them and us by going to igloosoftware.com/connected.

00:11:16   And we have a special guest today to talk about the September 9th event which is just

00:11:21   around the corner, the one and only Mr. Jason Snell. Hi Jason.

00:11:25   Hey guys, it's good to be here. You're back on relay after like, not even

00:11:29   a week. It's been a week. Another week, another relay

00:11:32   I just appear on I can't help it. I just I just love talking to you. So yeah

00:11:38   So I love I love the show and it's very weird to be on the other side of a show that I listen to

00:11:43   Regularly, so yeah, it's a sweat ear on this side, isn't it? It's kind of weird. I don't know. It's pretty pleasant over here

00:11:50   It's all air-conditioned and nice. It's plush. This is the plush new relay dot FM. Look at me. I live in California

00:11:56   No, I mean the pot your podcast network is plugging it forget it

00:12:02   - Well, this was a good show.

00:12:03   We should just...

00:12:04   (laughing)

00:12:05   - Bye, everybody.

00:12:06   - Yeah, so, Tuesday, little less than a week from now,

00:12:11   Apple's gonna have a little shindig

00:12:13   at the Flint Center, right?

00:12:17   Which is interesting.

00:12:17   - Flint Center, yeah.

00:12:18   They haven't been there since the iMac, the original iMac.

00:12:21   - Yeah, oh yeah, I guess you were there.

00:12:23   Did you fist bump?

00:12:24   - I wasn't there.

00:12:26   - No?

00:12:26   - No, actually, it's funny.

00:12:28   The event that Apple called before that,

00:12:30   And this was back before Apple events were a thing.

00:12:34   It was the dark times.

00:12:35   And they did something where they got all the press

00:12:37   to come to Cupertino for some briefing.

00:12:39   And it turned out there was no new hardware,

00:12:41   and it was some software initiative.

00:12:43   And I don't even remember what it was.

00:12:44   But I remember we all felt so ripped off

00:12:47   that when they did this next event, and they said, oh, no,

00:12:50   you need to come to this event.

00:12:52   It's going to be really good.

00:12:53   And we're like, sure, guys.

00:12:54   Sure, it's going to be good.

00:12:56   And we sent a token.

00:12:59   One person went to that event, and it turned out

00:13:02   to be the iMac, and we never missed another event.

00:13:05   I never missed another event after that.

00:13:06   I guess-- I'm trying to think what would be before that,

00:13:09   like Mac OS 8.6 or--

00:13:11   it's before OS 9.

00:13:13   But I'm telling you, it wasn't even that.

00:13:15   Like I said, it was some weird--

00:13:16   It was like an Apple Works update.

00:13:18   --internet initiative or something.

00:13:20   I think it wasn't even a product.

00:13:21   I think it was like-- we all felt ripped off.

00:13:23   It was somebody's PR baby, and they

00:13:25   decided like, "Hey, we'll call the press." But we won't tell them what it is until we

00:13:30   get there, and then you feel totally ripped off. So when they did it again for the iMac,

00:13:35   we're like, "I guess somebody needs to go." So we sent somebody, because you can't not

00:13:39   have Macworld at an Apple event, and yet suddenly it turned out to be this big thing. Literally,

00:13:46   the editor-in-chief called the staff afterward and said, "I'm driving back now, assemble

00:13:51   in 40 minutes in my office and this is huge and it was huge.

00:13:56   So I'm assuming this is the Flint Center for the Performing Arts, right?

00:13:59   That's the one. Guys, have you seen their website?

00:14:03   Yeah, it's really good. Flintcenter.com, it's

00:14:07   going to be in the show notes. It's a special, special website.

00:14:11   I think it might have an image map, maybe some blink tags.

00:14:14   Wow, look at this. It's

00:14:18   pretty epic. And for all of the wrong reasons. So Jason we wanted to talk to you today. I mean

00:14:24   I would like to think that everybody loves to sort of guess what's going to come up. I think this is

00:14:31   the sort of the usual thing that we'll do before an event like this. We'd like to try and put in

00:14:38   our best estimates as to what we think we're going to see depending on like the rumors that have come

00:14:42   out or just like from our best guesswork and we figured you know who better than you to to talk

00:14:47   about this stuff. So let's start with the phone. I may be a terrible guesser though,

00:14:51   that's the problem. Well, we're gonna rely on your experience on this one.

00:14:54   All right. So let's start with the phone. All right, I guess that there will be a phone.

00:14:59   We're going to assume that. Now, what are we thinking about lineup here? So,

00:15:04   the standard rumor is we're going to see two new phones, like two new screen sizes, like a,

00:15:11   What are we looking at? 4.5, 4.7, and like 5.5 is kind of the general sort of rumors given out at this point.

00:15:20   Do you think that we're going to see this if we do see two new phones?

00:15:23   What happens to like the C line? Is that going to stick around or will that be gone already?

00:15:28   Oh wow, like I said I'm bad at predicting. The rumors seem too strong for there not to be two phones, right?

00:15:36   Although I kind of have expected them to do a big phone last year and it didn't happen.

00:15:40   there were some minor buzzing about that.

00:15:43   So I think two phones is a good rumor.

00:15:47   The big question is, yeah, what happens?

00:15:49   I presume they wouldn't just kill the existing product

00:15:55   line and product size and that there probably will still

00:15:57   be a phone that's a 5, let's say, of some kind--

00:16:01   5S, 5C, 5 something else--

00:16:05   that they keep around at the lower end of the line.

00:16:08   I would think so.

00:16:09   I think there's just too much.

00:16:11   This is part of their product strategy, having these one and two year old models still available

00:16:15   at lower prices.

00:16:16   Because the naming is going to get potentially really clunky, right?

00:16:19   We could end up with a 5C, a 5CS, a 6 Pro.

00:16:28   The naming is just this thing that whenever we come into these announcements, it's always

00:16:33   such an interesting thing to think about.

00:16:37   There are some sort of things that Apple do which you can kind of guess at with naming,

00:16:41   but then every now and then they throw a spanner into the works, like when they call the fifth

00:16:46   iPad just the iPad.

00:16:48   Yeah, the new iPad.

00:16:51   And I feel like the iPhone, if we're going to get two new iPhones and then potentially

00:16:56   bump two older models down the chain again so they've got the lower end as well, I think

00:17:02   we're going to end up in some really interesting naming territory again.

00:17:06   is not consistent with the names either because I could see them sticking a letter on one

00:17:11   of these models. I could also see them saying that they're both the iPhone 6 and you can

00:17:16   choose your size. Yeah, that's not a bad thought actually. Right, they could do that. They

00:17:22   could just say, "Look, this is the new iPhone 6 and it comes in this size and then it'll

00:17:25   also come in this size, oh, and everybody is amazed by that." Or they could say, "It's

00:17:30   the 6 and it's the 6L," or something like that because it's large. And I don't know,

00:17:35   really inconsistent because you've got the iPad where they tried to take the generation

00:17:40   out of it and say it's just the new iPad, but it still is, you can count the generations.

00:17:45   They have the iPad mini, but then with the iPhone they've kept the numbering scheme,

00:17:49   and then if you look at the Mac side, you've got the MacBook Air, and then there's an 11-inch

00:17:52   MacBook Air and a 13-inch MacBook Air, and likewise with the iMac and the MacBook Pro.

00:17:59   They're not consistent across these devices, and in the iPhone line they seem to be perfectly

00:18:05   happy to add capital letters on at the ends of numbers.

00:18:09   So your guess is as good as mine here.

00:18:14   Every time they complicate a product line like this,

00:18:16   there's that question of how is Apple

00:18:18   going to attempt to communicate the complexity of this product

00:18:20   line?

00:18:22   It's interesting, too.

00:18:25   If you look at the iPad line, having two devices now

00:18:31   that are identical except screen size--

00:18:33   and they do have different names--

00:18:35   on the computer end of things, you know,

00:18:37   a MacBook Air, like they don't, in marketing at least,

00:18:41   say, you know, MacBook Air parenthetical 11.6 inch.

00:18:45   Now that's in the technical documentation

00:18:47   for those of us who are K-based lovers.

00:18:50   - Sure. - But it's, yeah,

00:18:51   love the K-based. - Mid-2011.

00:18:53   - Yeah, you should upgrade, that's getting old.

00:18:57   Yeah, it is interesting. - Oh, I've upgraded.

00:19:00   - Oh, oh. - I've upgraded.

00:19:02   Now I'm mid-2013, I've moved to the middle of last year

00:19:04   from the middle of many years ago.

00:19:08   - So, you know, if you were on a Mac Mini,

00:19:09   it doesn't really matter at all.

00:19:12   So, you know, it is interesting--

00:19:14   - Last year's model is 2011 model.

00:19:16   And the 2009 model.

00:19:18   - All of the Mac Mini fans are just weeping silently.

00:19:21   - I'm waiting to buy, I wanna buy a new Mac Mini

00:19:23   and I just can't bear to buy the one that they've got now

00:19:25   'cause it is not new, it is very old.

00:19:26   - Yeah, well we live stream on a Mac Mini

00:19:29   and I bought a used one off somebody

00:19:31   'cause it's like, what's the point?

00:19:32   Like, it doesn't matter.

00:19:35   So the naming is interesting,

00:19:38   but I think ultimately,

00:19:41   I think Apple's marketing department can figure that out.

00:19:44   I always, I really like what they do now with like,

00:19:47   I just rewatched the Yosemite part of the keynote

00:19:50   from WWDC and they're like, Craig Federighi's like,

00:19:53   "Oh, like OS X Weed,"

00:19:55   and like OS X all these crazy California names.

00:19:57   So I think they've got the names under control.

00:20:02   But what's interesting to me at least is looking at,

00:20:05   okay, you're gonna have two phones that are the same size,

00:20:07   potentially, I mean, new ones.

00:20:10   Are those phones specced the same,

00:20:12   or is there something different about the bigger one

00:20:15   besides screen size?

00:20:16   - You'd think that this would be an opportunity

00:20:21   for them to throw something in there at the super high end,

00:20:24   although I don't know, I feel like,

00:20:27   I think the best thing to do would be to say,

00:20:30   if it's the iPhone 6 line,

00:20:31   iPhone 6 line is all, you know, it all has those features. But, you know, I haven't

00:20:36   seen any rumors about the idea that there's some sort of withheld feature. I

00:20:39   don't think I've seen like the rumors about doing, you know, payment system and

00:20:44   near-field communication chip and things like that. They don't seem to be

00:20:47   rumors that there's going to be, well, that's only going to be in one model. I

00:20:52   think that they expect that it'll be in in both the models. I don't know, this big

00:20:57   phone thing is a big mystery too, because what if they said you can run, I don't know,

00:21:04   two apps side by side? Probably not. That seems like a terrible idea in general. I don't

00:21:08   know, I kind of feel like the beauty of the big phone is just that it's a bigger iPhone,

00:21:12   but it's still an iPhone, so I hope they keep it simple.

00:21:15   We can pray for battery life.

00:21:17   Well, I think that comes with the territory, right? Presumably, the larger an area, the

00:21:23   a volume of a phone, the more battery, although I worry that this is like an algebra problem

00:21:30   and that Apple solves for battery life and the battery life they're solving for is what

00:21:35   we've currently got and they think that's enough.

00:21:37   And I don't think it is.

00:21:39   And I think that this is a great opportunity to set that number higher and say, "Look,

00:21:43   now we've got 20 hours of battery life instead of 10."

00:21:49   One of my big things is I want the iPhone to have a larger screen for a few different

00:21:55   reasons.

00:21:57   I feel like it could be wider.

00:21:59   I would like to be able to have more apps on one screen at one time, like on the home

00:22:04   screens.

00:22:06   The content area that you get from a larger phone, like whenever I've used Android devices,

00:22:10   I always like that.

00:22:12   But battery life is a big thing for me.

00:22:15   I constantly wear, sorry, have a,

00:22:19   well I also wear it, a battery.

00:22:22   - A belt pack.

00:22:23   (laughing)

00:22:24   A battery belt pack.

00:22:25   - I wear a battery around my waist.

00:22:26   No, I have my phone in a mofo.

00:22:28   - It's not even charged, it's just the style.

00:22:31   - It's just the style, it's just the style at the time.

00:22:34   Because my iPhone doesn't get me through a day.

00:22:37   It doesn't get me through, sometimes just by the time

00:22:40   I get to the office in the morning,

00:22:42   I'm like at 35% or something like that.

00:22:45   And it just doesn't work for me.

00:22:48   I've never understood how people say

00:22:50   they get a whole day out of the phone.

00:22:52   It doesn't make sense to me.

00:22:53   I just don't get it.

00:22:54   So I would love to see a much improved battery life

00:22:59   from a phone with a larger screen

00:23:03   and a larger phone overall.

00:23:06   - I mean, more volume means more battery room, I think.

00:23:11   I hope.

00:23:12   Because the guts of this thing

00:23:13   are not going to be that dramatically different, I think, other than the screen.

00:23:16   But behind the screen, not that dramatically different from what we've seen in existing

00:23:20   iPhones, which means there's more room for battery, and on an even bigger one, there's

00:23:24   even more room for battery.

00:23:26   I hope that that's actually one of the big selling points of that larger screen phone,

00:23:31   if it exists.

00:23:32   Not only does it have a nice big screen, but man, you should look at the battery life,

00:23:35   because for some people, that really, really matters.

00:23:38   And that's a place where Android has had an advantage over the iPhone.

00:23:42   There are some phones out there that are big and chunky and have a big battery with long

00:23:46   life and some people need it.

00:23:48   Yeah, and that's a really good point, Jason.

00:23:52   This is one of those situations where Apple is not the first to do this.

00:23:56   Say that Apple has a 4.7 inch phone.

00:24:00   There's a lot of phones at that size.

00:24:01   I've got the Moto G which is 4.5 inch and the size is actually pretty nice.

00:24:08   But I can remember not that long ago where Apple community people, air quotes, sort of

00:24:15   mocked those bigger phones and now we're here sitting talking about all the advantages.

00:24:20   I find that shift kind of interesting and I've done it.

00:24:24   I still think a 5.5 inch phone is pretty ridiculous but I think that history over the last 18

00:24:31   months, two years, has shown that people like that.

00:24:34   today Samsung had an event and they announced two new Galaxy Notes that are

00:24:38   you know I think at least as big as this big iPhone would be and one has like a

00:24:43   crazy like curved screen on the edge which doesn't make any sense but um

00:24:46   those will be in the show notes but it you know like it's it's a weird shift

00:24:51   for us to be talking about these in kind of different ways now I think. Yeah it's

00:24:54   um you know sometimes some of it is tribal some of it is like well we don't

00:24:59   do that and they do do that so we're gonna say that what we do is good and

00:25:01   what they do is bad. And I get that. And some people have smaller hands and I hear from

00:25:09   women especially who have smaller hands who don't really like this trend toward larger

00:25:13   phones. Personally, I've tried a bunch of different Android phones, put them in my pocket

00:25:18   and my reaction is always, "That fits, it's fine." I mean, there's plenty of room in my

00:25:24   pocket for a bigger iPhone because the Android phones fit in there just fine. Now the super

00:25:29   jumbo iPhone, I think that's a question. Is that going to be like that Samsung, the Galaxy

00:25:35   Note where they had like Shaq holding it or Yao Ming holding it, and it's literally like,

00:25:39   it looks like, when a giant person holds it, it looks like a normal sized phone, or what?

00:25:44   I think that's an open question, but certainly these larger Android phones don't, I mean

00:25:51   they fit in my pocket just fine, and sometimes they're thinner around the edges, and I don't

00:25:56   walk around with one of those phones in my pocket and think this is ridiculous.

00:25:59   In fact, for a while when I was trying out the Galaxy S3, I think, I had a Galaxy S3

00:26:04   and an iPhone 5 in my pocket simultaneously, and it was fine.

00:26:09   It was a little bit tight, but I mean, there's room in there, and you get the bigger screen,

00:26:14   which is really nice.

00:26:18   I may be proving the point of now saying big screens are nice, but I never really understood.

00:26:22   I like that the iPhone is compact and I can reach everywhere on the screen with my thumb

00:26:27   and all that, but at the same time when I tried the Android phones they seemed fine

00:26:30   too.

00:26:31   Sometimes it's hard to know until you can experience these things.

00:26:35   I wasn't sure I ever wanted larger than the 3.5 inch screen until I played around with

00:26:43   some Android devices and realized that 4 point something was great.

00:26:47   I say that about 4.5 to 4.7 feels like a sweet spot for me. The larger screen,

00:26:54   like the even larger screen, I'm interested. I don't know if I want it but

00:26:59   I'm interested to see what Apple try and bring to that if they go that route. Like

00:27:05   if they go Galaxy Note route, where do they go? Because the Galaxy Note makes

00:27:11   sense because it has the stylus, right? So you can kind of... I feel like

00:27:17   in a way you can see it is the size of like a notepad so why not give it a

00:27:21   little pen and people can take notes on it. So I wonder what Apple will say is

00:27:26   their reason, like what is the reason for going that large if they do? Because

00:27:31   I think it's difficult to try and understand it especially if they don't

00:27:35   start doing extra software features in iOS which I highly doubt, you know, like

00:27:40   having being able to have more things on screen at a time however that might be

00:27:45   more than just what developers do, like what will Apple do themselves to try and

00:27:50   justify why a five, like over five inch device makes sense when they then have

00:27:56   like iPads which it's bumping up towards at that point. Although I like the idea

00:28:00   of, I don't think it's a mainstream product, I think it is an edge case

00:28:05   product, I think that's why Apple hasn't introduced one yet, even if they do now

00:28:09   it will be very late in the game. You know, I look at the note, I talk to

00:28:12   people who have things like the Note,

00:28:13   and usually what they say is they like the fact

00:28:16   that they have one device instead of having a tablet

00:28:18   and a smartphone, they just have this thing

00:28:20   that's like a small tablet, and yes,

00:28:25   it's also got a phone feature in it,

00:28:26   but that's kinda not the point,

00:28:28   and the point is that they've got cellular data,

00:28:30   and that they can take this one device around with them,

00:28:33   and I suspect those devices actually appeal more to women

00:28:36   in the sense that they're much more baggable

00:28:38   than they are pocketable, and I don't know,

00:28:41   I find it kind of intriguing. I have an iPad mini and I love it and I think about this

00:28:46   large iPhone and think, "If it wasn't too much of a burden to fit in my pocket and it

00:28:53   meant that I sort of just had the one device everywhere instead of the two, maybe that

00:28:57   would be a better thing?" I think for some people it would and for a lot of other people

00:29:01   it wouldn't. Up to now, Apple's like, "Look, we just do one iPhone. This is the best one.

00:29:05   We do this. This is the best fit for us." And now, we may be seeing them saying, "Well,

00:29:10   for different folks and the big phone is never gonna be everything.

00:29:16   This is why I'm still a little skeptical about the big phone because it seems not quite Apple-like

00:29:20   to say this is gonna be a little more of an oddity.

00:29:23   But maybe the product line is diverse enough now because it's been around with the iPods,

00:29:29   right?

00:29:30   It needs to diversify and at some point some of these things like the iPod shuffle was

00:29:33   an oddity too, but it filled a particular need.

00:29:38   The interesting thing that you mention about the one device, that is a real consumer reason

00:29:47   for a device like that, but it's not a marketable one.

00:29:51   Because Apple want people to have both still.

00:29:54   That's what I find really interesting.

00:29:56   I just try and wrap my head around, if they don't give some sort of additional features

00:30:01   in that device, which I think the general consensus is they probably wouldn't do that,

00:30:07   it's likely that they won't be unveiling like the iPhone 5c and the 5s. These are

00:30:12   gonna be two top tier phones, right? That they're just gonna have like potentially

00:30:17   the standard and then the pro or something like that they may go with now.

00:30:21   I just try and I try and put myself in their shoes and wonder what is the the

00:30:27   Apple justification of it and like the only thing that I can think of that you

00:30:32   can easily get away with is battery life but then they didn't do that

00:30:37   with the Air and the iPad, sorry, the Air and the Mini, the

00:30:42   iPads. They have the same battery life as well as like the rest of the same

00:30:45   internals. It's just an interesting thing to me and I want to talk about

00:30:50   Avanto but before that, if we're going to look at different screen dimensions, what

00:30:56   do you guys think are going to happen to existing third-party apps? Are we going to

00:31:00   be in one of those like scaling up scenarios like if developers haven't prepared for like

00:31:07   the new like resolution independence or something like that what are we going to do in that

00:31:14   regard?

00:31:17   There was an interesting conversation on I guess now last week's talk show with Gruber

00:31:21   and Craig Hockenberry of the Icon Factory and kind of thinking about especially on the

00:31:29   5.5 what happens and I think where they settled and I don't disagree is that iOS

00:31:34   is just gonna scale those apps up so it won't be as bad as like 1x and 2x when

00:31:39   they went retina but it will be maybe a little bit fuzzy until until developers

00:31:45   deal with it I don't think they're gonna letterbox they did that when they went

00:31:49   to the 5 because it just went taller but letterboxing an app in the center of the

00:31:53   screen with like black all the way around it leads to a lot of issues right

00:31:57   like where is the keyboard end up? Is the keyboard full width of the app not?

00:32:00   Like I don't, I think Apple is going to deal with with it by scaling up because

00:32:04   it's the simplest solution and yeah it doesn't look great but it's better than

00:32:09   having apps like kind of floating in space in the middle of this phone.

00:32:12   Well it's going to be multiple, multiple steps right where there's a you know can

00:32:16   it, can't, does it have these these liquid layouts?

00:32:20   No it doesn't. Okay well then we'll either scale it up or we'll letterbox it

00:32:25   and it depends on what the aspect ratios of the phone if it's more or less with

00:32:29   the 5S is then maybe it would just scale it up. But you know developers all the

00:32:35   all the cool apps will get updated very rapidly to support it just like they did

00:32:40   with the 5S and and just like they did with retina. I am a little curious about

00:32:45   what's going to happen in terms of what target resolution developers are working

00:32:49   on and I my theory and I know I mentioned this on another podcast the

00:32:53   the other day is I keep wondering if they're gonna do

00:32:56   with the iPhone what they did with the Retina MacBook Pro,

00:33:00   which is end up targeting like a false resolution,

00:33:04   a resolution that's actually higher

00:33:09   than the resolution of the display, and then scale it.

00:33:12   Because I know that there are a lot of people

00:33:15   who are worried about like,

00:33:17   perfect, you know, pixel perfect designs

00:33:19   and things like that.

00:33:19   And I think one of the weirdest things that Apple did

00:33:22   with the Retina MacBook Pro was break away from the idea of a perfect pixel display resolution

00:33:27   on a flat panel.

00:33:29   They render it at an enormous resolution.

00:33:32   If you take a screenshot on the Retina MacBook Pro, it's much larger than the actual screen

00:33:36   resolution.

00:33:37   And that's because it's rendering at this incredibly high level, and then they're

00:33:42   resizing it on the fly for your screen.

00:33:44   And that sounds like it would look terrible.

00:33:46   It doesn't look terrible.

00:33:47   And the reason it doesn't look terrible is, at some point the resolution of your screen

00:33:50   is so high that you can't see the terrible, fuzzy part of the pixels because they're too

00:33:56   tiny to see.

00:33:58   And I wonder if maybe that's going to be the solution to some of this stuff with the bigger

00:34:02   screen is some screen math where they're rendering it at 4x or something and then scaling it

00:34:06   to 3x or whatever on the fly.

00:34:10   So that's going to be a wrinkle too, where we don't know what they're going to render

00:34:13   at and we don't know what's going to happen to apps that are moving independently like

00:34:18   little interface elements are sliding here and there and then what happens

00:34:22   when does the OS throw its hands up and say I don't know what to do with this

00:34:24   app here just

00:34:25   use it like the iPad does now with iPhone apps

00:34:29   yeah just like whatever here it is it's a 2x scaled up and

00:34:32   just take it.

00:34:36   So let me talk about our next sponsor for this episode

00:34:39   of Connected and we have a new sponsor today

00:34:43   and that is a lovely book

00:34:46   called ICONIC. It's a photographic tribute to Apple and design. ICONIC is a coffee table

00:34:54   book that tells the story of Apple's most beautiful desktops, portables, peripherals,

00:34:59   prototypes, iPods, iOS devices and packaging. It's got the whole lot, all with the use of

00:35:04   stunning and unique photography. The project began in 2009 when author Jonathan Zuffi decided

00:35:10   he wanted to start to photograph and catalogue his incredible and huge collection of Apple

00:35:15   products. Over four years, the team working on Iconic took over 150,000 photos, choosing

00:35:21   the very best examples to put into this fantastic 350 page book. To go along with the images,

00:35:27   there are a collection of essays from contributors such as Ken Siegel, Lauren Brickter and Daniel

00:35:31   Kottke, as well as forewords from Jim Darenport and Steve Wozniak.

00:35:36   Now we want to take a quick moment to talk about a product that we found in Iconic that

00:35:39   really means something to us and when I was flicking through the book, something that

00:35:44   What I loved very much to see was one of the main images of the iPod mini in the book is

00:35:50   a pink one, which made me very happy.

00:35:55   It was basically the image, it's kind of across a two page spread and it has a quote from

00:36:00   MG Siegler about all of the little things that Apple does and it's got the iPod mini,

00:36:06   a beautiful pink iPod mini, being opened in the box as it sits in the box that you would

00:36:10   take it out of.

00:36:11   I remember the unboxing experience of that iPod Mini. It was the first Apple product

00:36:16   that I had the pleasure of opening in that way. Apple were the pioneers of that sort

00:36:22   of unboxing. Opening a product like that was fantastic. Seeing it in the book like that

00:36:27   was so awesome. One of the other images that I love, I love all of the iPod images in here

00:36:32   because of the colors of them. It shows all of their nanochromatic, the colored nanos.

00:36:38   They've got them all side by side and I like the they have all of the square iPod

00:36:43   Nanos as well of all of the different watch faces on like a tile pattern

00:36:46   like the imagery in this book is just so beautiful. Steven I'm sure that you love

00:36:53   looking at all of the old Macs as well there. Yeah I love the there's a page

00:36:58   that has all of the old Apple disk drives so Apple had a bunch of different

00:37:02   you know five and a half and then three and a half and double stacked and single

00:37:07   stacked and one with release doors and whatnot they changed it a bunch and

00:37:10   there's a page with all those in a grid and for me at least is like an old Apple

00:37:15   hardware or really a hoarder like I have a ton of this stuff at home it it really

00:37:20   was like awesome to see all that all in one place. There is just so much stuff to

00:37:26   look at in here as an Apple nerd and just marvel at you know if you're a guy

00:37:30   like Steven you like looking at dish drives this book is for you. Iconic has

00:37:34   been fully self-published and is printed on beautiful and really thick and great

00:37:38   paper stock. When the book actually arrived I didn't think it could be the

00:37:43   book because it was so heavy. They've spared no expense and it

00:37:48   makes the perfect gift not only for you but for any of the geeky loved ones in

00:37:53   your life and we have a great deal for you. You can get 20% off either the

00:37:57   classic or classic plus edition which is made of even better materials by going

00:38:01   to iconicbook.com/relayfm. Thank you so much to ICONic for their support of

00:38:07   Connected and all of Relay FM. So go to iconicbook.com/relayfm and you'll

00:38:13   also see some examples of some of the fantastic imagery that they've got on

00:38:16   the site there too. Thank you. Awesome. So wearables, do you want to talk about that?

00:38:26   Sure. Seems like a thing. Right? How do they work? So what are we thinking? Are we

00:38:38   gonna see another product, a wearable product tomorrow? I mean the general

00:38:43   consensus being, right, iOS 8 and health and you would assume that a product like

00:38:49   this would interface with the iPhone in a key way. Maybe it has health, you know,

00:38:54   There's also rumors about payments, and that would most likely go with it too.

00:38:58   There's all this stuff of handoff and identity and how that's all changing between devices.

00:39:05   If Apple were going to do something wearable, would they be looking to unveil it at the

00:39:11   same time as they unveil the iPhone?

00:39:15   Well, here's a funny thing.

00:39:18   A lot of us in the people who are watching and writing and talking about technology world

00:39:24   get really excited about wearables and think,

00:39:25   oh, this is gonna be a whole new category of products

00:39:27   and isn't it exciting?

00:39:29   And you lose sight of the fact that

00:39:31   most of these wearable devices at their core

00:39:34   are accessories, right?

00:39:37   They're accessories for your device

00:39:40   that you've always got with you, which is your smartphone.

00:39:42   In almost all cases, that's the case.

00:39:44   They're accessories.

00:39:45   And if that's really true,

00:39:47   that a wearable device from Apple

00:39:48   really is best when used with an iPhone

00:39:51   and it's part of the iPhone ecosystem

00:39:53   and it makes the iPhone better,

00:39:55   and iPhone users are the ones who are gonna wanna buy it,

00:39:59   which I think is, obviously, any wearable that Apple makes

00:40:02   is going to work with just Apple stuff,

00:40:04   I think that's pretty clear, and that's fine.

00:40:07   What better place to introduce that product

00:40:10   than alongside the iPhone for two reasons.

00:40:12   One is it's in the ecosystem, it fits with the iPhone,

00:40:16   and presumably with iOS 8,

00:40:18   and so that's the best time you could introduce it

00:40:21   because they're attached, they're joined at the hip.

00:40:24   And then the other thing is that this is the big one

00:40:27   for Apple.

00:40:28   The iPhone launch gets more attention than any other launch

00:40:31   they do all year long, and I can tell you that

00:40:32   just from personal experience looking at traffic on the web

00:40:36   or the stories that we've done about it

00:40:37   and the live blogs that we do about it,

00:40:39   the iPhone event is it.

00:40:41   So if you're gonna launch a new product category,

00:40:43   what better time to do it than when the intention

00:40:45   of the entire world is on you?

00:40:46   So for those reasons, I think it's the perfect place.

00:40:50   - Yeah, but I take a little bit of problem with that.

00:40:55   Every time Apple does an event--

00:40:57   - That was the most polite way to disagree I've ever heard.

00:41:00   - Yeah. - Little problem with that.

00:41:01   - A little problem with that. - Let me have it, let me have it.

00:41:04   - Mr. Snell, Mr. Snell. (laughs)

00:41:07   Apple has the world's attention

00:41:09   at any time they step on stage.

00:41:11   So why share the stage with the iPhone?

00:41:15   - They have some attention, right?

00:41:17   but I feel like this is the big one though.

00:41:21   They get the most attention.

00:41:22   I mean, by a surprising factor,

00:41:25   I can just tell you from our traffic perspective,

00:41:29   the interest in this, this is also the event

00:41:30   where everybody's like, what's gonna go on the new iPhone,

00:41:32   what's the deal with the new iPhone?

00:41:33   And so, no, they don't have to do it now.

00:41:36   They could do it in January.

00:41:37   If it's not gonna ship until next year,

00:41:39   they could probably do that.

00:41:40   But then I will refer you to my previous statement,

00:41:44   which also fits in the ecosystem.

00:41:46   I feel like this is not a story on its own, it's a story with the iPhone.

00:41:50   And assuming they want to put it in production and then know the hardware is going to leak,

00:41:54   because the reason we haven't seen leaks about this is because it's not in the supply chain

00:41:57   yet.

00:41:58   Because Apple and most hardware companies leak from their supply chain, there's just

00:42:03   too many people involved in making too many parts.

00:42:05   But right now it's inside Cupertino where there are very few leaks.

00:42:10   So this is, you know, they would need to announce it like this month or next month at one of

00:42:14   presumably there'll be a second event like there usually is in October for an

00:42:17   iPad launch. They got to do it now or it is gonna leak and it's really part of

00:42:23   the iPhone ecosystem so it seems to me like it's the best it's the best choice

00:42:27   for now would be to just tie it in because then they tell the story with

00:42:31   iOS 8 right it's gonna be about the health kit and the health app and iOS 8

00:42:34   and perhaps some other features on these new iPhones and then also this wearable

00:42:38   device is part of the story. Yeah that's that's the thing if it is together there

00:42:43   has to be that narrative.

00:42:44   Apple likes telling, stringing these things together

00:42:48   as a narrative.

00:42:50   We've done a lot of Apple keynote kind of recaps

00:42:55   on the show, and that's always something that's true.

00:42:57   With the iPod, we really love music.

00:42:59   And because we love music, we made something

00:43:01   that was portable and had good battery life

00:43:04   and was easy to use.

00:43:05   The iPhone, very famously, the three things,

00:43:10   the internet communicator, the phone, and the iPod.

00:43:12   and that thread was carried throughout.

00:43:15   So if it is health, I think it does make sense.

00:43:18   If it's not, if it's a hey, we have these two iPhones,

00:43:23   which they haven't done before, really.

00:43:26   I mean the 5C kinda counts,

00:43:27   but no one cares about the 5C.

00:43:29   And then this, it's just gonna be a busy Tuesday.

00:43:36   - It could be, yeah, it does feel overstuffed.

00:43:38   I don't know, I maybe think that they

00:43:42   want to do it this way too because this is a product we expect to be blown away and have

00:43:46   this be the end of the world, the greatest product ever, right?

00:43:49   And instead, I think it's perhaps best judged in the context of being an iPhone accessory,

00:43:56   and I think it actually takes some of the anticipation and the high expectations out

00:44:03   of the product a little bit if you say, "Hey, this works with the iPhone and here it is,"

00:44:08   instead of saying we are going to create this brand new amazing event for this brand new

00:44:12   amazing product.

00:44:13   Does that make sense?

00:44:14   I mean, I think a lot of times Apple's products suffer from, and their events suffer from

00:44:17   these ridiculous expectations that can never be met.

00:44:20   And this might be a way to slide this product out there without it having to face quite

00:44:25   as much scrutiny as it would on its own, especially since it really does need to presumably to

00:44:30   work with the iPhone.

00:44:32   How much money could you charge for an iPhone accessory irrespective of what it could and

00:44:37   couldn't do. Let's assume it does everything we expect. So we'll talk about payments in

00:44:42   a minute, but let's say it does something like that. Let's say it does health tracking.

00:44:45   Let's say it gives you notifications, and let's say it does one other thing that nobody

00:44:49   can see, right? Because that's what people say, "Oh, we can't imagine what Apple would

00:44:54   do." So let's say it does all of those things.

00:44:57   By people, you mean Federico.

00:44:59   Yeah, Federico. Let's say it does this magical thing that Google could never do, right? How

00:45:05   How much money could you charge for this?

00:45:07   Could you charge $300?

00:45:08   Could you charge $400?

00:45:10   Bearing in mind the phone costs $600?

00:45:13   Yeah, but your cell phone provider presumably isn't going to rebate your wearable purchase.

00:45:23   I feel like this $400 or $450 rumor is like the $1000 iPad rumor.

00:45:31   I feel like it's a fake that's actually put out by Apple to lower, to raise unreasonable

00:45:36   expectations so that they can undercut it.

00:45:38   And they do that.

00:45:39   I mean, Apple has been known to leak information in order to try to control the enthusiasm

00:45:47   because they know that things can kind of run away with enthusiasm.

00:45:51   And it wouldn't surprise me if they also did something like this, that literally this way

00:45:56   people will be surprised when they find the price out.

00:45:59   I think this is the kind of thing that you have to do for like $2, $2.50, so I expect

00:46:04   Apple to do it for $300.

00:46:07   And I'm not trying to be silly, but that tends to be, you know, it's always like everybody

00:46:11   else does it at this amount, so they do it a little bit more.

00:46:16   Like when we were looking at the iPods a couple of weeks ago, right?

00:46:19   It was like, "Well, it does like 90% more and we only charge you $50 more."

00:46:25   You know, I feel like it will be one of those scenarios.

00:46:29   You know, and it was the same with the 5C, right?

00:46:33   Everyone expected it to be super cheap and it was just a bit cheaper.

00:46:37   Yeah, I mean, yeah, the whole 5C thing is a whole interesting case study and like sort

00:46:44   of the rumor mill kind of spiraling in on itself.

00:46:49   But I do think it's got to be something that can live on its own to a degree.

00:46:56   It can't be completely crippled unless the iPhone is present if it's going to be several

00:47:01   hundred dollars.

00:47:02   And talking about expectations, that's Apple's whole thing leading up to these is managing

00:47:08   that if it's controlled leaks.

00:47:13   I agree with you, Jason, that that thousand dollar rumor and then it being halfway, I

00:47:17   could see that being at play again. Now what's not helping is that they built a

00:47:22   giant like white building attached to the Flint Center. So like I don't know

00:47:26   what's going on in there I hope it's not that silly WWDC thing from last year of

00:47:30   the guys with the robot race cars like I hope they haven't built bigger ones and

00:47:34   that's what's in there. Real cars. Yeah yeah real car yeah real cars. So you know

00:47:39   if it's something health related maybe there are some activities going on out

00:47:42   there you know you can you can see Phil Schiller swim laps. Jason you'll get to

00:47:47   - You'd be on a treadmill.

00:47:48   - Yay!

00:47:49   (laughing)

00:47:51   - They'll do it.

00:47:52   They'll do a relay race with the journalists.

00:47:54   - It's probably like a demo room or briefing rooms

00:47:56   because they have the, you know,

00:47:58   if you're one of the elite group that has the early phone

00:48:03   where you get it and you get a week to write about it,

00:48:06   which I've been in that group

00:48:07   and I've not been in that group.

00:48:09   I've had it both ways.

00:48:10   If you're in that group,

00:48:11   they need a place to take you secretly

00:48:13   and give you a phone and let you talk to executives

00:48:16   and that might be it.

00:48:17   I don't know enough about the Flint Center to know if they need to add on a hands-on

00:48:21   area somewhere or if there's some place in the Flint Center that's going to be good enough

00:48:25   because they usually have an area afterward with 20 of every product that they announced

00:48:30   all on a table being watched over.

00:48:34   Each one is being watched by at least one and sometimes two Apple employees and then

00:48:39   the press comes and paws all over them.

00:48:42   That could be it too.

00:48:44   This is a weird thing logistically.

00:48:45   haven't seen them do this. Most of their events are either in Town Hall on the

00:48:50   Apple campus or Yerba Buena or Moscone West in their keynote configuration or

00:48:56   there have been a couple at the California Theatre in San Jose. This is

00:48:59   none of those so I don't know. It's been ages so I suspect it's one of

00:49:05   those though that either it's a hands-on area or they wanted their private secret

00:49:09   you know double secret briefing area for Walt Mossberg it's just for Walt

00:49:16   Mossberg and John Gruber the only ones allowed in it yeah those like red chairs

00:49:21   yeah a lot of space oh yeah yeah that's good they could be doing their own

00:49:24   little all things D up there with just Walt and Kara and Tim Cook so the to

00:49:32   kind of back up a second you know the rumors of mobile payment like this is

00:49:37   rumor that never dies right like I think it started with like that maybe the

00:49:40   iPhone like 4 or 4s that you know NFC was gonna be in it NFC is bigger overseas

00:49:46   than it is here in the States like Myke every time you're here you're like

00:49:49   mesmerized that we have to like physically swipe our debit cards from

00:49:52   the to work. And you still use checks like it's true I order checks for our

00:49:57   business this week because we're in America and we do things silly ways.

00:50:03   get I don't know if the world is ready for this and a sort of big scale and the

00:50:12   world I really mean America yeah because the rest of the world is doing it yeah

00:50:17   a little by the world I mean America yeah I've whoo we got to do against one

00:50:24   Myke it's two against one that's right do I have to go on that monologue again

00:50:29   why I say why this is relevant. Consider that Italy gets no representation this week and

00:50:35   yeah yeah just be lucky that you're even here and allowed to be on our podcast with us. Yeah

00:50:40   in the free world right? That's right number one. Yeah good grief. I'm in California we're

00:50:50   going to secede anyway so anyway go ahead. Yeah so do you think this is the year that this finally

00:50:55   comes true?

00:50:56   What was the question?

00:50:57   Sorry, I was too busy with my...

00:51:02   I'm folding up my American flag now.

00:51:05   Is this the year the NFC finally comes to Apple products?

00:51:08   Oh yeah, payment, boy, yeah, the US is so messed up in terms of payments.

00:51:11   I do...

00:51:12   Well, Chip and Pin is coming too, so I actually do think that we are...

00:51:16   When you look at things like the Target data breach and the fact that that got Visa and

00:51:20   MasterCard to finally agree to do chip and pin.

00:51:24   Just like everybody finally caved.

00:51:27   All of the credit card companies realized they were refunding way too much money in

00:51:30   fraud transactions and it wasn't worth it anymore.

00:51:33   And so I actually think this is a really fluid time for payment systems in the United States.

00:51:37   So I think it's a great time.

00:51:39   I actually think this is one of those cases like Apple does so often where everybody wants

00:51:45   Apple to jump into something really fast and Apple just kind of sits back and watches things

00:51:50   play out for a while. They did this with, like, Bluetooth was an example from back in

00:51:55   the day where everybody wanted Bluetooth on Macs right away and they're like, "Yeah, we'll

00:51:59   see." And like two years passed and then they finally kind of came in after it had settled

00:52:02   down. And I feel like with Google and Android devices with NFC hanging around and now with

00:52:09   this move toward chip and pin in the US, like, it seems to me like maybe Apple has just waited

00:52:15   long enough that they can come in now and add their clout. It's already moving in that

00:52:19   direction and that maybe that will be, that people will be ready now.

00:52:24   Because there was a shift.

00:52:25   The fact that the US was ever going to go to chip and pin, I thought that's like going

00:52:29   to the metric system.

00:52:30   I thought it would just literally never happen in the US.

00:52:33   And finally things got so bad and consumers were being ripped off so much and the credit

00:52:39   card companies were eating so much in refunds that this has finally changed.

00:52:44   So I think it might not work but I think it's as good a time as any for anybody to try to

00:52:49   try, because it seems like things are finally changing.

00:52:52   My concern is that Apple are going to do the Apple thing and not want to do NFC, but do

00:52:58   their own system. Because even with Apple, it's unlikely that that will get adopted.

00:53:05   They kind of have to move to NFC for this, because that's what currently exists in Europe.

00:53:15   And it's what will move for you guys as well.

00:53:18   Currently now we have a system, a relatively new system in the UK called Contactless, where

00:53:25   debit cards have an NFC chip in them.

00:53:27   So for any amount under £20, I just tap my debit card on a reader which is attached to

00:53:34   the chip and pin machine.

00:53:35   They're like one and the same.

00:53:38   And I don't even need to put my pin number in, it just debits my account and that's it.

00:53:42   So like for small transactions, no, I don't need cash, and I just go beep and that's it.

00:53:47   And I've paid for something.

00:53:48   So that's what needs to be integrated into phones and I mean I know for a fact that there

00:53:55   are movements from the card processing companies here that in some instances if like a supplementary

00:54:03   app is used, like a banking application for example, you could pay for amounts up to hundreds

00:54:10   of pounds because you can press it. The phone recognizes the banking app is there. The banking

00:54:15   app pops up, asks you to put in a four-digit PIN number, and it will debit. So there is

00:54:20   a potential future where we could pay for everything with these devices, and it could

00:54:26   be even more so if it was attached to your wrist because you don't need to get your phone

00:54:30   out of your pocket. You just put your wrist, wave your wrist over the cash register, and

00:54:36   you've just paid for your bagel.

00:54:38   I'm imagining too using like touch ID to authorize a payment.

00:54:43   That would be pretty cool.

00:54:44   There is, where that makes a lot of sense, there is still financial institutions still

00:54:51   get wary of this because it's not their system that is doing the authorization.

00:55:00   So even though in theory a fingerprint is more secure than a four or six digit PIN number,

00:55:07   some financial, more entrenched financial institutions are less likely to want to

00:55:12   support Touch ID because it's Apple's thing, not their thing, and they have no

00:55:18   way of like doing the verification themselves. They just have to trust that

00:55:22   Apple say it's that person. Which, you know, that's not necessarily when it's

00:55:28   coming down to they could end up losing their money in this to financial

00:55:32   institutions. They're less likely to want to support that.

00:55:35   Can you imagine where this information is coming from?

00:55:38   Right, and Dr. Drayton makes a good point in the chat of, you know, Apple doesn't have

00:55:43   the smartphone momentum in the market that they did, say in 2008 or 2009, where Android

00:55:49   is the market leader in a lot of metrics.

00:55:53   And so even if Apple said, "Hey, you know what, we're going to do this thing," they

00:55:58   don't hold the market share, they don't hold the majority of that in such a way that they

00:56:03   they can force the hand and kind of force the issue.

00:56:06   And so like if Apple does their own thing

00:56:10   and even if some banks are like, you know what,

00:56:12   sit like, you know, my small credit union,

00:56:14   like a local bank would never do this.

00:56:16   Like they barely have online banking and it's terrible.

00:56:19   They would never do this.

00:56:20   I would need to go to a bigger institution

00:56:24   even if they did support it.

00:56:25   So I don't know.

00:56:28   It's one of those things where I think,

00:56:30   I think Myke, I think you're absolutely right.

00:56:31   I think Apple's got to kind of play into the already established system.

00:56:36   And I don't think that's the end of the world.

00:56:37   I don't think that means that this is dead on arrival.

00:56:41   No, it's the right thing to do.

00:56:43   And Apple will still get their amount of money.

00:56:45   They'll still get their processing fee from their little slice of that from the card companies.

00:56:51   As I recall, there were reports that Apple did try to build their own payment system,

00:56:57   and they ran into a lot of trouble.

00:56:59   And I think this is something that we, I think Dr. Drang is right in saying that if Apple

00:57:04   could have done this, you know, a few years ago was when they could have tried it.

00:57:08   I'm not sure it would have worked because the financial services market is really huge

00:57:12   and slow to move.

00:57:13   And that's why I mentioned how like the move to chip and pin and the target data breach

00:57:17   and a bunch of things like that.

00:57:19   This is a good time because things are moving now.

00:57:21   Things are fluid.

00:57:22   And I, you know, I don't think the financial services sector was going to do an Apple,

00:57:27   know, an Apple-only thing ever. And I think that's sort of what Apple wanted to do.

00:57:31   And this is going to be more like Apple lending its weight to this might be the

00:57:37   thing that sort of greases the skids for it to just happen. And, you know,

00:57:43   I'm optimistic about that. I think, like I said, if you told me

00:57:47   that we were changing to the metric system, I would laugh and laugh and laugh.

00:57:50   And I would have said that about Chip and Pin, but funny how life works that

00:57:55   enough horrible data breaches happen and somebody says, "Oh, this is costing us money," and then

00:58:00   magically we get chip and pin after all. So I think it's a good time for all of this stuff.

00:58:05   Yeah. So the other sort of issue on the table today is iOS 8 and Yosemite ship dates. So if

00:58:14   history holds up and, you know, iOS 8 would ship with the new phones, you know, the new phones would

00:58:19   be running iOS 8, not really anything to discuss there, the question becomes what about Yosemite?

00:58:25   where iOS 8 and the new version of OS 10 obviously do a lot of stuff there's a

00:58:30   lot of the handoff and continuity stuff which I've been playing with and the

00:58:34   parts that work right now are really pretty handy and there's been some some

00:58:40   thoughts of do they need to ship these things at the same time and I for one

00:58:47   don't think that they do I think that iOS 8 can stand on its own and then when

00:58:53   OS X is ready probably in October then they you know maybe they release OS X

00:58:59   and the new iPads together which I think is what they did last year pretty pretty

00:59:03   close and and then you know with the iPads you can talk about handoff and all

00:59:09   this great stuff and then your iPhone kind of automatically just does it with

00:59:12   the Mac after your somebody's out like they don't I've I for one don't think

00:59:16   that they have to ship together I think saying that they do is a little

00:59:19   short-sighted. A lot of things in fact, in the "really pragmatic" "stalling for time"

00:59:24   category, I think if you know Yosemite is not going to ship until October, which I

00:59:30   mean that's when maverick shipped I believe, so it makes sense.

00:59:33   Also it allows you to, it gives you a lot of clarity as an iOS developer about

00:59:37   what bugs to focus on. Like you can just not worry about handoff and ship iOS 8

00:59:43   knowing that there'll be an 801 or 802 that will drop right around the same

00:59:48   Yosemite drops that's got all of the handoff stuff all buttoned up tight. I mean, it's

00:59:53   actually one of the beautiful things is you can say it's in iOS 8, but not have it be

00:59:57   there right away because Yosemite's not there. So they can just like whistle a little bit

01:00:02   past the graveyard and be like, "We'll be back later!" and be gone. Because, right?

01:00:08   And if you look in the public beta, it's very clear that that handoff doesn't really, you

01:00:12   know it's not really working very well right now or at all in some cases and I

01:00:18   think that's I think that's because they know they've got more time for that than

01:00:21   they do for other iOS features. But then iCloud Drive is the elephant in the room

01:00:26   like because if you upgrade to iCloud Drive it destroys all documents and

01:00:32   data-sinking. Well that's and that's not that's not really true I mean the way it

01:00:36   works if you go to iOS 8 or Yosemite and you don't enable iCloud Drive all your

01:00:41   other iCloud stuff is still there it's sort of in a different place and again

01:00:45   like handoff Apple could ship iOS 8 without iCloud Drive they could use the

01:00:50   old iCloud structure or they could just leave it janky for a month like I don't

01:00:56   know if that's enough to say Yosemite's gonna be out you know with with the new

01:01:02   iPhones now that said I'm planning to have my review ready by then just in

01:01:06   case and I think a lot of people who pay attention to this are you know maybe

01:01:10   preparing that they don't follow the pattern but I think if if next Tuesday

01:01:15   comes and goes and we are you know still running Mavericks like like like animals

01:01:20   I don't think that's the end of the world. The iCloud Drive thing though like you

01:01:24   can't well it's a choice to upgrade right doesn't iOS I mean

01:01:30   that we're talking about the beta now but doesn't it give you the option so

01:01:33   what would stop them from just not giving anybody the option and just not

01:01:36   having it be there for the first month. That would be the best thing to do. And

01:01:40   then turn it on in October, say iCloud Drive is coming in October. Woo! Yeah, I

01:01:44   mean that's the way to do it. Back away. If they're happy with the fact that they've

01:01:48   promoted it, right? So as long as they're happy to then just throw a little sticker

01:01:52   up, say like, "It's coming to October now!" Because you could do it between the iPhone and the

01:01:56   iPad, then you'll be fine and it will be lovely. Because at the moment if you

01:02:02   you enable it things like like for example clear will not sync for me

01:02:07   anymore because I dared to sign in on an iPod touch and wasn't paying attention

01:02:12   because that's the problem I wasn't paying attention nobody else really pays

01:02:17   attention and you just during that setup process just go yes yes yes yes yes and

01:02:22   then you know and when I say nobody else of course I don't mean you two because

01:02:26   you're smarter. I mean everybody else like regular people like me who don't

01:02:32   pay attention to what they're signing up to and then just go through and just say

01:02:38   yes to everything and then well their iCloud apps don't sync anymore.

01:02:43   Anyway on that great note, Mr. Jason Snell, are you gonna be at the

01:02:50   event? I will be there. I got invited. It was very very kind of Apple.

01:02:54   actually I think there are four people from Macworld who are going to be there, which

01:02:58   is a record for us in recent years. So yeah, I'll be there.

01:03:02   I look forward to seeing pictures of you on treadmills and exercise bikes and stuff like

01:03:06   that, trying out the health devices. And then around the, you know, they'll probably have

01:03:10   like a fake supermarket in there as well so you can try out the payment stuff. So enjoy

01:03:14   all of that. Those will be really, really beautiful photos

01:03:17   too. It'll be like when they unveiled the iPod

01:03:20   Hi-Fi, which is also in the iconic book by the way, Trami smile and they had like they set up the house

01:03:25   It's gonna be like that. Yeah

01:03:28   They also released if memory serves me correctly leather like iPod

01:03:33   Cases at that event that sold for like $100 and had like the embossed Apple logo on the back

01:03:39   Yeah, I don't know if was $100 but they were laughable expensive. I think they were $50 cases

01:03:43   Maybe that was it $60 cases and that was that was not

01:03:48   Not good. That event was like, I don't know, I felt like that was like Steve Jobs

01:03:54   had a really bad attitude that week and just decreed that this is what they were gonna do.

01:03:59   And actually, you know, Apple's product discipline is so great.

01:04:03   And even though Steve Jobs always had the attitude that everybody who was a third party

01:04:09   was stealing money from his good work and Apple's good work and that Apple needed to find ways to take the money off the table.

01:04:15   and that was absolutely his attitude.

01:04:17   You rarely saw it as brazenly as with the iPod Hi-Fi,

01:04:22   which was literally like,

01:04:23   wow, Bose is selling a lot of sound docs,

01:04:26   let's take that action from them.

01:04:28   And it failed, which is the beauty of it.

01:04:30   I actually use an iPod Hi-Fi as my external Mac speakers

01:04:34   at home to this day, 'cause it's got an aux port,

01:04:37   so it's still actually functional.

01:04:39   But man, that was the whole reason that product existed,

01:04:42   is just because they were really bent out of shape,

01:04:44   I really believe it was Steve Jobs was mad that Bose was making so much money

01:04:47   off of the greatness of the iPhone and so they made their own thing. That thing was so big.

01:04:53   Well I mean yeah it's like a it's like the size of a like classic 80s like dual

01:04:58   cassette deck portable tape player kind of thing. And Bose are doing those tiny

01:05:02   little things. Yeah. But you know it was fine because Steve replaced his high-end

01:05:07   audio equipment anyway so. It sounded good. It sounds good I listen to it almost

01:05:13   every day still and it sounds perfectly fine it was just overpriced and kind of

01:05:18   pointless and then sadly also it all the iPod charging in it even though it had

01:05:22   little swappable like place where you could put in different dock connectors

01:05:25   and things like that it was using the original firewire charging which meant

01:05:30   like a year later when they changed to USB charging where the pins were

01:05:34   different and all these different chargers car chargers broke so did the

01:05:39   iPod Hi-Fi and that was the end. Yeah I can't use my beloved iPod Classic

01:05:44   with one. Nope. I will say though I do keep my iPod Classic in a green

01:05:49   iPod sock so... Hey good for you! I know right? I have an iPod

01:05:54   Classic I'm in the club for the iPod Classic too I have one in my car. Does the

01:05:58   iPod Classic have the 30 pin? Yes. Yeah so I have both style

01:06:04   cables in my car. Mr. Jason Snell, thank you so much for joining us. Where can

01:06:13   people find you on the internet, sir? You can find me on Twitter @jsnell. You can

01:06:18   find much of my writing on Macworld, and you can find many of my fine, artisanal,

01:06:23   handcrafted podcasts at TheIncomparable.com. Thank you. You can find me

01:06:28   listening to this show every week on my iPhone in my in my car so

01:06:34   power sliding while listening to your show yes thank you Jason thank you

01:06:40   Arrivederci

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01:09:27   So we should probably go for AppPix now, right?

01:09:29   Let's do it.

01:09:30   Do you want to take the lead?

01:09:32   Yep.

01:09:33   So I would like to talk about, it's a very quick one for me today, I think, Product Hunt,

01:09:38   which is a website that I came across recently.

01:09:42   I think I started getting into it when people let us know that we were on Product Hunt recently.

01:09:47   relay FM when we launched. It's basically a Y Combinator backed project and it's effectively

01:09:55   just a list of new things that have launched. People submit things to Product Hunt like

01:10:01   Digg or something like that and people upvote them. It's that sort of Digg style that you're

01:10:05   used to. But all it is is for things, new services, new apps, new projects, new products

01:10:11   that have launched. And it's a really cool way to go on and find new little web services

01:10:16   our apps and I found a few apps. So like today we've got like the Logitech K480

01:10:22   is the top of product hunt today and it's a keyboard, a new Logitech

01:10:29   keyboard that you can use with basically any device. It's like made to be like

01:10:33   Android, iOS, that sort of stuff. So the app is very simple. You're

01:10:37   authenticated via Twitter for the application. You can go in, you can view

01:10:42   all of the comments that are attached to each product that's listed. You can

01:10:46   add comments if you like. And you can also view the associated websites and if

01:10:50   you like it you can upvote it. It's just a cool way to... I kind of want to do like a

01:10:54   double thing like it's it's a cool service to find new stuff and their app

01:10:58   is very simple very clean it's a nicely designed application as well so check it

01:11:03   out. It's called Product Hunt and it's in the app store.

01:11:07   Cool. Mine, mine, my pick is an app by Jared Sinclair of Unread and Whisper and

01:11:18   Riposte, a new app called Time Zones. It's an iPhone app and it does basically what

01:11:24   you think it would. It is a time zone and world clock application and it does a

01:11:30   couple things really well. You might say, "Steven, the iOS system does this. You can

01:11:36   just open the clock app and I do have my timezones in there and and that's that's

01:11:41   fine but one thing that that timezones does is it has a little little feature

01:11:49   called is it called a quick check check quick check and so you can go in here

01:11:54   and I'm gonna have a screenshot in the in the show notes because it's not the

01:11:58   one that I'm deleting now from the document one so I can go in here and I

01:12:04   I can say, okay, I have an event Monday, September 8th

01:12:08   at 11 p.m.

01:12:09   and I can say that event is in,

01:12:17   pick a city, Myke, just pick a city.

01:12:19   - London.

01:12:19   - So I can say London.

01:12:22   So I'm gonna pick East London, South Africa.

01:12:26   - Okay, great, yeah, that's what you wanna do.

01:12:28   - And I can do quick check and it will tell me

01:12:30   when that event is based on my local time.

01:12:34   So I give her the time that I was given from the event host

01:12:37   in their time zone and it tells me what it is my time.

01:12:42   And that sounds confusing, but it's really not.

01:12:44   It's really quick and it's great.

01:12:47   But you know, if listening to a live podcast

01:12:49   or you know, wanna catch something on TV

01:12:51   or if someone says, "Hey, we're gonna have a phone call,"

01:12:54   to go in there and just very quickly know

01:12:56   when it is in your time zone

01:12:57   instead of doing what I used to do,

01:12:58   which would be like, you know, for Myke,

01:13:00   you and I are six hours apart,

01:13:02   Federico and I are seven hours apart,

01:13:04   Jason and I are two hours apart,

01:13:05   and trying to figure all that out mentally

01:13:08   is just a good way to go crazy.

01:13:09   So Time Dental takes care of all that.

01:13:11   It's free with the in-app purchase to get rid of ads.

01:13:14   It looks great on iOS 7 and 8,

01:13:16   and it's definitely, if you deal with this sort of thing,

01:13:19   definitely the tool you should be using.

01:13:21   - I want to add a couple of things to this.

01:13:23   So when you're doing the quick check,

01:13:25   so you can kind of go in and say,

01:13:28   I want to know what 8 p.m. is in all of,

01:13:30   And it gives you a list and shows you all of the time zones

01:13:33   that you've entered, 'cause you can enter

01:13:34   multiple time zones.

01:13:35   It shows you what that time is in all of them,

01:13:37   so that's really useful for, like for me,

01:13:40   when I'm trying to work out what time this show streams,

01:13:43   I can go in and be like, I know it's 10 p.m. London time,

01:13:46   right, so that's X time, like, so it's like,

01:13:49   that's a three, so I'm not using it right now,

01:13:52   otherwise I'd know.

01:13:53   Two p.m. San Francisco time, five p.m. Eastern time,

01:13:57   et cetera, and you get that list.

01:13:59   But then you can jump backwards and forwards

01:14:02   by 30 minute increments.

01:14:03   So if you're trying to schedule a time,

01:14:05   be like, oh no, that doesn't work for Steven.

01:14:08   Maybe an hour's time would be good for him,

01:14:10   so you just hit the button a couple of times

01:14:11   and it lets you do that.

01:14:13   You can also rename time zones.

01:14:15   So I have time zones by city, but also by people as well.

01:14:18   So I can't necessarily remember what time zone

01:14:22   such and such person's in.

01:14:23   I don't remember that they live in this city,

01:14:25   but I can just put their name in.

01:14:26   And also, one of the reasons I love this app

01:14:29   is I helped Jared with some of the thinking behind it.

01:14:34   So the actual, the idea for this application

01:14:38   came in a conversation that me and him had

01:14:41   after he was on command space.

01:14:43   I was talking to him, we were just talking,

01:14:45   I was talking to him about the fact

01:14:46   that there are no good timezone apps,

01:14:48   and then I told him all the things that I needed,

01:14:51   and then he made it.

01:14:52   For some reason, he doesn't credit me with this,

01:14:54   and it upsets me so greatly.

01:14:56   - Wow.

01:14:57   - Even the quick check thing, right?

01:14:58   So the jumping between like the 30 minutes,

01:15:00   like going in ahead, I said, "You add that."

01:15:02   And he had, you know, just saying, Jared, you know,

01:15:05   you don't have to give me any money,

01:15:06   but you could just say Myke helped.

01:15:08   That's what's all I asked for.

01:15:10   I don't know why he refuses to acknowledge

01:15:13   my existence, Steven.

01:15:15   - Wow. - It upsets me.

01:15:16   - Not that you're upset.

01:15:18   - Or bitter in any way.

01:15:19   - Yeah, so you can find Product Hunt online,

01:15:21   you can find time zones in the iOS app store.

01:15:25   All of those are available at our show notes,

01:15:29   which are on the internet somewhere.

01:15:31   - I'm not really that bitter, by the way.

01:15:33   I just wanna make that clear.

01:15:35   - Relay.fm/connected/three.

01:15:39   - Something like that.

01:15:40   - Something like that.

01:15:42   - So we come to the end of this week's episode.

01:15:45   Thank you so much for listening.

01:15:46   Thank you to Jason again for joining us.

01:15:49   We've got a very special episode next week

01:15:51   'cause it's the first Apple event

01:15:54   that we'll be covering on Connected.

01:15:56   So you will wanna tune in for that.

01:15:59   We broadcast this show live on the internet.

01:16:04   We broadcast at 10 p.m. London time,

01:16:08   2 p.m. San Francisco time, so Pacific time,

01:16:11   and 5 p.m. Eastern time.

01:16:15   So you wanna definitely tune in.

01:16:16   It's gonna be a fun show next week for sure.

01:16:18   If you wanna catch the show notes that Stephen mentioned,

01:16:21   relay.fm/connected/3.

01:16:25   We are _ConnectedFM on Twitter.

01:16:28   I am @imike, I am YKE, and Steven is @ismh.

01:16:33   Steven also writes over at 512pixels.net.

01:16:36   We'll be back next week.

01:16:37   Until then, bye bye.