446: The iPhone Abides


00:00:00   (upbeat music)

00:00:02   - From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 446.

00:00:13   Today's show is brought to you by Ladder,

00:00:16   ExpressVPN and Fitbond.

00:00:18   My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined by Jason Snell.

00:00:20   Hi, Jason Snell.

00:00:21   - I'm Myke Hurley, how are you?

00:00:23   - I'm very good.

00:00:24   In lieu of small talk, as we do every week,

00:00:26   we will begin today's episode of a Snell Talk question.

00:00:29   Jon wants to know, Jason, what was your favorite game

00:00:32   on the original Macintosh?

00:00:35   - I have a lot of favorites from the original Macintosh.

00:00:37   I played a lot of games on the,

00:00:39   well, original Macintosh is not quite right.

00:00:41   I had a Mac SE, but like, I know what Jon means here.

00:00:44   Like back in the day, right when I first got a Mac.

00:00:46   What were my favorite games?

00:00:47   When I was thinking about this,

00:00:51   I thought about like their Shuffle Puck Cafe,

00:00:53   which where you use the mouse as a paddle

00:00:56   to play air hockey against an AI opponent.

00:01:01   It was pretty great.

00:01:03   And also a good use of the mechanism of having a mouse

00:01:08   to basically replicate the movement of the puck

00:01:13   or of the little, not the puck, of the little thing

00:01:18   that you use, the little plastic thing

00:01:20   that you use to hit the puck, 'cause the mouse was that.

00:01:22   And so there was sort of a one-to-one relationship.

00:01:24   I love that.

00:01:26   SimCity, played a lot of SimCity in SimCity 2000,

00:01:31   a lot of that.

00:01:33   It was also kind of soothing.

00:01:36   I get the same vibe from Mini Motorways and Mini Metro.

00:01:41   They're very similar in that they're what,

00:01:43   even though there's a little more,

00:01:45   I mean, there's gameplay in both,

00:01:46   but it's also just sort of like soothing and chill

00:01:48   and you can actually just put it in endless mode

00:01:53   if you want to.

00:01:56   But the answer here, the single game I may have spent

00:02:01   the most time playing in my lifetime,

00:02:04   it's still probably Tetris.

00:02:07   So that's my answer, Tetris.

00:02:10   Spectrum Holobyte, official license from the Soviet Union.

00:02:15   There was no little actual property.

00:02:16   Alexey Pajitnov who wrote Tetris,

00:02:18   didn't see money from Tetris for like a decade

00:02:21   when it was the most popular game in the world.

00:02:23   But it's totally Tetris.

00:02:25   I love Tetris.

00:02:26   To this day, I love it.

00:02:27   I have a Tetris on my Playdate, in fact.

00:02:30   But for me, as a Mac Tetris person,

00:02:34   in fact, that 512 Mac that I have the floppy EMU on

00:02:39   that has the, so I can boot it and play stuff

00:02:42   from the old days,

00:02:44   it boots to a disc that has Tetris on it.

00:02:47   JK, what was it?

00:02:51   JKLI for the movement and the space bar to drop is just,

00:02:56   it's burned in my brain.

00:02:59   It's in there, Tetris.

00:03:01   - There was, my uncle had a Mac of some description.

00:03:05   Like I was a young, young kid, like single digit age.

00:03:09   I remember this.

00:03:10   I don't know what Mac it was,

00:03:12   but I know that it was green on black, right?

00:03:14   So I assume it was just a Mac, right?

00:03:16   Like an original Mac of some description.

00:03:19   And he had a golf game.

00:03:20   I don't know what game this was, right?

00:03:22   But like, that is like a big early memory for me.

00:03:26   Like, it was just, the game was just like green on black.

00:03:30   Some kind of golf game.

00:03:31   I used to play this a lot when I'd visit his house.

00:03:34   So that's all I know.

00:03:36   I have tried many times to try and find this one,

00:03:38   like, but I don't know what it was.

00:03:40   Like, it's complicated.

00:03:42   - Did you ask John Syracuse?

00:03:43   - No.

00:03:45   - He might know.

00:03:46   - He might know.

00:03:47   - I don't remember.

00:03:48   I do, I remember,

00:03:50   And back then, you know, without the internet and stuff,

00:03:53   you ended up with, so I discovered the Mac at college.

00:03:56   And so people with Macs at college,

00:03:58   first off, lots of people didn't have Macs at college, right?

00:04:00   But there were people with Macs at college.

00:04:01   And when you would find the person with the Mac at college,

00:04:04   you would find like what games or what discs they had, right?

00:04:08   And what games they had.

00:04:10   And you would discover, you'd be like,

00:04:12   I have never even heard of this.

00:04:13   And there would be, so I wouldn't be surprised

00:04:15   if somewhere in my brain,

00:04:17   there's lodged a golf game that I saw.

00:04:19   I was like, "Oh, golf on a computer? Okay, whatever." But that was never one that I copied

00:04:24   or whatever. By which I mean bought. I don't mean bought.

00:04:28   Copy the idea and then went to a store and bought it is what you meant.

00:04:32   Yeah, that's totally what I meant. When I say pirate, I mean more of a privateer really.

00:04:37   Anyway, yes, those are the games. And then in my college newspaper office, we actually

00:04:44   were networked. And so we played, there was a game called Net Track, also not licensed

00:04:50   by, from Star Trek, but they use some of the art and sound effects, but it was a network

00:04:56   space battle game, basically, and then Spectre, which was a network tank game that came a

00:05:02   little bit later, but Net Track was something we played because it was the idea that everybody

00:05:05   got on. I mean, it was really just an amazing moment. That was our first, most of us, that

00:05:10   was the first networked gaming experience where we're in different rooms in the office

00:05:16   flying our little spaceship around trying to destroy the other people's spaceships.

00:05:21   And that was just a revelation whenever you did that for the first time in that era you

00:05:27   remembered like, "Oh, this is going to be a thing. This is a big deal to be able to be

00:05:31   on your different computers and play against your friends." It was pretty great.

00:05:35   I think Apple's making like a Tetris movie.

00:05:39   - Yes, I think that's true.

00:05:42   - I still, I don't really know much about it

00:05:44   other than it's happening.

00:05:46   I think I wanna leave it that way for now, you know?

00:05:50   And just like, I wanna see what that ends up being

00:05:53   when it comes.

00:05:55   - Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:05:58   I think it's about like Alexey Pajitnov making Tetris.

00:06:03   But-- - I don't know, man.

00:06:05   I'm gonna assume that it's like an animated movie

00:06:08   and it's all of the Tetris pieces.

00:06:10   - It was already, wasn't there already like a Tetris movie

00:06:13   that was like big blocks are coming from the sky

00:06:16   or something, I don't know.

00:06:18   I don't know. - Was that Battleship?

00:06:19   - There was a Battleship movie, yes.

00:06:21   - If you would like to send in a question

00:06:24   to help us open an episode of Upgrade in the future,

00:06:26   just send in a Snell Talk question

00:06:29   by going to upgradefeedback.com.

00:06:31   Thank you to everybody that has.

00:06:34   I have some follow-up, which is that I am now on Mastodon, Jason.

00:06:38   I have joined the Don.

00:06:40   I'm hanging out with everybody else now on Mastodon.

00:06:43   So you can come follow me.

00:06:45   I have set up my own instance,

00:06:47   as it seems to be the cool thing all my friends are doing,

00:06:49   at mike.social.

00:06:50   >> Join us.

00:06:51   >> I am iMyke on mike.social,

00:06:54   so you can come follow me there.

00:06:55   There's a couple of reasons,

00:06:56   like in a nutshell, I won't belabor the point.

00:06:59   I wanted to have somewhere where I could talk about

00:07:01   all the various things that I'm doing about

00:07:02   bringing these things to all of my various shows, right?

00:07:05   So it gives me a place to talk about what I'm up to.

00:07:07   And also, everyone's there right now,

00:07:09   and it seems like a lot of fun, and it has that vibe.

00:07:13   Mastodon right now has the early Twitter vibe.

00:07:18   There are all these apps, and loads of stuff's happening,

00:07:21   and I kind of feel like I'm missing out

00:07:24   on something cool that's happening

00:07:26   in our corner of the world.

00:07:27   To help myself, I've set a bunch of,

00:07:30   what I'm calling guardrails about like how many people I'm following

00:07:33   and how much time I'm spending on the service every day.

00:07:36   Um, I have a 15 minute app limit in ivory at the moment.

00:07:40   And it's going great for me so far.

00:07:43   And, uh, I'm trying to, you know, I'm trying to understand a Fediverse

00:07:46   for everything that it's got to offer.

00:07:48   Uh, but I would appreciate it if you're so interested that you can

00:07:51   come find me on mike.social.

00:07:53   Oh boy.

00:07:54   With upgrades also on Mastodon too.

00:07:57   Jason set up a bot.

00:07:58   So if you have followed us previously,

00:08:01   we are upgrade on mastodon.social.

00:08:04   If you like, you don't want to find out

00:08:06   when the show is posted and stuff like that,

00:08:08   we're also there so you can go and do that.

00:08:10   - Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:08:12   I wired all that up.

00:08:13   So the upgrade Twitter account

00:08:15   and the upgrade mastodon account.

00:08:17   Upgrade Twitter account used to be hand posted.

00:08:18   It's not now, it's auto posted based on the show notes

00:08:21   and the mastodon account has that as well.

00:08:23   So if you want to follow that just as a source of,

00:08:25   is there a new episode or are we live?

00:08:27   which I'm still working on the live thing,

00:08:28   but we'll get there.

00:08:29   I'll get that all together.

00:08:31   - Yeah, we'll get there.

00:08:32   But yeah, we're trying it out and it is fun

00:08:36   and it's cool and it's interesting.

00:08:38   And I'm trying to keep it a little bit looser

00:08:40   than I did on Twitter towards the end as well.

00:08:43   So yeah, you can come follow us.

00:08:45   And Jason, how's Zeppelin.flights?

00:08:47   Everything going well over there?

00:08:49   - Yeah, Zeppelin.flights is going good.

00:08:51   I got, you know, there's several people on there.

00:08:53   It's not just me 'cause it's other people from Incomparable.

00:08:55   But what I found is with Meso.host is-

00:08:58   - Which is why I'm using two, which is great.

00:09:00   - I'm using their planet level or something.

00:09:03   And it's, you know, I think I'm probably pushing it

00:09:06   a little bit.

00:09:07   Actually, day to day, it works fine.

00:09:09   The challenge is that if you have a decent number

00:09:12   of followers, so like when I migrated,

00:09:14   when Dan Morin migrated, and when I recently migrated

00:09:16   six colors over there, which has a few thousand followers,

00:09:19   the moment you press the migration button,

00:09:22   the whole thing just slows to a crawl for a few hours maybe.

00:09:25   and then it's fine again.

00:09:26   Because what happens is every other server

00:09:30   that's looking, that contains a person

00:09:33   who's following that account,

00:09:34   hits mastodon.social where it was,

00:09:37   gets the forward request and immediately hits

00:09:40   the new server at zeppelin.flights.

00:09:43   And that all happens at once

00:09:45   and that server gets real slow.

00:09:47   And then it works fine.

00:09:48   Like once the transition is over,

00:09:50   again, it works good.

00:09:52   And I haven't had a problem with it.

00:09:53   So that's, that's, yeah, it's going okay.

00:09:56   - How was your Super Bowl experience?

00:10:00   - I mean, I watched the Super Bowl at home.

00:10:02   We didn't have anybody over or anything.

00:10:04   We didn't go anywhere.

00:10:05   We just watched the Super Bowl.

00:10:06   We had a busy morning.

00:10:07   We came home, we're very tired,

00:10:09   and we watched the Super Bowl.

00:10:10   So the big, the story though is, of course,

00:10:15   what I really, how should I phrase this?

00:10:17   Well, what I really was there for, Myke,

00:10:19   is the Apple Music halftime show.

00:10:21   That's not true, but I watched the Super Bowl every year,

00:10:23   but it was the inaugural Apple Music halftime show.

00:10:28   Inaugural.

00:10:29   - I don't think we spoke about this

00:10:30   right when it was announced,

00:10:31   but this is such a smart move for Apple, right?

00:10:35   Like the halftime show is one of the biggest

00:10:38   musical events of the year.

00:10:40   And it was Pepsi for a long time, right?

00:10:43   For Apple to get kind of like the branding right on this.

00:10:47   I don't know if they have any kind of input

00:10:51   or like help or whatever.

00:10:53   Like, I don't know, but I don't think it matters, right?

00:10:55   It's just like, this is great.

00:10:56   - I don't, you know, I don't know whether,

00:10:59   so what happened is it used to be outsiders

00:11:03   who produced the halftime show.

00:11:07   - Yeah.

00:11:08   - And then what happened is the wardrobe malfunction,

00:11:13   which people might remember.

00:11:16   - Yep, yep.

00:11:17   - That's the Janet Jackson, Justin Timberlake thing.

00:11:20   And that was, I think, did MTV produce that?

00:11:22   Anyway, and the NFL was like, no, no, no,

00:11:25   we're gonna produce it.

00:11:25   I don't know, I'm gonna have to look,

00:11:27   I don't know whether this was an Apple Music production

00:11:30   or a co-production with the NFL,

00:11:32   but I'm sure that Apple had input on what it was.

00:11:36   And I think, I mean, look, okay, so it was Rihanna.

00:11:39   I think that Apple's goal is to have the musical guests,

00:11:44   guest or guests at the Super Bowl be relevant, right?

00:11:47   Like Apple's goal is not nostalgia trip, I think.

00:11:52   And so I think while sometimes the Super Bowl halftime show

00:11:55   is a classic artist, a great artist.

00:11:57   - Like last year's, which was awesome, right?

00:11:59   The De Deuray show was fantastic,

00:12:02   especially if you're my age.

00:12:04   I think it was like perfect.

00:12:05   - Right, so I guess this is the question is,

00:12:07   you don't want it to be like so new

00:12:09   that nobody knows who they are,

00:12:11   because it's the Super Bowl.

00:12:12   It is a broad entertainment event.

00:12:13   It's the most watched television program

00:12:15   in the United States,

00:12:16   and it's one of the biggest TV events in the world,

00:12:18   but it's certainly number one in the US by a mile.

00:12:21   And so you want somebody who is gonna be known,

00:12:25   but also that I would say you want it to be relevant.

00:12:30   And if you're Apple, you especially don't wanna be known

00:12:32   as like a brand that's attached to some old star.

00:12:36   Like Paul McCartney was at the Super Bowl.

00:12:39   Paul McCartney did not perform at the Super Bowl, right?

00:12:41   Like that's the dividing line.

00:12:43   Rihanna performed at the Super Bowl.

00:12:45   So I think it'll be interesting

00:12:47   to see how these guest selections go going forward.

00:12:49   Does Apple have influence with artists

00:12:51   that maybe the NFL or Pepsi struggled with

00:12:55   that Apple will be able to be involved with?

00:12:57   I think it's also interesting that Rihanna performed

00:13:01   without any special guests.

00:13:02   That was another thing that's happened in recent,

00:13:04   and we can't call it a trend 'cause this is the first one,

00:13:07   but in recent years, there has been a lot of like

00:13:09   stuffing in of extra stuff.

00:13:12   So it'll be like, hey, you know, this person will be there.

00:13:16   But they, and then there's like,

00:13:18   And then these three other famous people appeared

00:13:20   to do one song.

00:13:21   And then this other famous person appears.

00:13:23   And this was Rihanna.

00:13:24   That's it.

00:13:25   And dancers.

00:13:26   That's it.

00:13:27   Period. - The weekend,

00:13:27   a few years ago, was the same, right?

00:13:29   - Yes.

00:13:30   - But like, lost years was like--

00:13:31   - Which I enjoyed.

00:13:32   That was one of my favorites.

00:13:33   Because it felt like he was,

00:13:35   I thought, not only did I enjoy that,

00:13:36   but it was just him and it was a good show.

00:13:38   And it was somebody, I would say, who is big,

00:13:42   but probably, I mean, he was verging on,

00:13:44   is the weekend big enough?

00:13:46   but like for the Super Bowl, or is it a little too soon?

00:13:50   But I thought it was worth that.

00:13:52   That I think, I wonder if that might've been the model.

00:13:54   If Apple Music was like that weekend show,

00:13:56   we want that to be the show.

00:13:59   And it was amazing.

00:13:59   Like they had, they were on floating platforms

00:14:02   because this is a dome basically with a cutout,

00:14:06   but they were on the floating platforms

00:14:08   and you could see that they're tethered,

00:14:09   like Rihanna was tethered behind.

00:14:12   So she's not gonna fall off.

00:14:14   - Still man. - But still.

00:14:15   - That thing, those things were moving.

00:14:17   - And dancing on platforms that are like floating

00:14:21   high above the stadium.

00:14:23   And then they brought her down and they were dancing more.

00:14:25   And so Lauren was enjoying the dancers on the platforms

00:14:28   'cause they're sort of like,

00:14:29   "Move your extremities slightly, but not too much."

00:14:32   But anyway, I thought it was a good show.

00:14:36   My daughter was very excited and loved it.

00:14:41   I thought it was really good.

00:14:43   and I love the fact that she just held it down.

00:14:45   There was no need for extra leavening of guest artists.

00:14:49   Like, no need.

00:14:51   - Her catalog is so large, right?

00:14:53   Like, you kind of see it in these moments.

00:14:56   It tends to be a lot of medleys,

00:14:58   but usually I feel like even in these medley full

00:15:02   performances, you'll get someone do like most of a song.

00:15:05   I don't think she had the time to do any one song in full

00:15:09   to fill half an hour.

00:15:10   - But it was like greatest hit one after another

00:15:12   just coming over and over again and showing my deep Rihanna knowledge I feel

00:15:17   like she ended with the songs that I had heard it was like oh I know these now

00:15:22   we're into the ones that I know Umbrella, Shine a Bright Light, A Diamond, yeah I got it

00:15:29   anyway the key news though the key news here Myke is it's time for where in the

00:15:35   world are Tim and Eddie. Tim Cook and Eddie Q. And the answer is in a luxury box in Phoenix,

00:15:43   Arizona, watching the Super Bowl. And we know this because we got to see pictures that went

00:15:48   across the social media, including Tim Cook sitting next to Billie Eilish, which had very

00:15:55   strong "my dad made me come to this football game" energy.

00:15:59   Yes. Yes, it does.

00:16:02   Mm-hmm and Eddie Q sitting next to Adele which led to our friend John, Syracuse, uh, posting on Mastodon everyone else in the world

00:16:08   Hey, it's Adele me and the people I know Eddie

00:16:11   You know when I saw these images I'm like this is another key reason for Apple to want

00:16:19   Moozing there were parties beforehand. They get to

00:16:23   Afterwards. Yeah to the stars that they want to make sure right like Adele Billy Irish like, you know

00:16:31   you're in the family, but hey, come down, look after you, you know, like all that kind of stuff.

00:16:36   And it's a genuine big reason for all of this corporate stuff, right?

00:16:40   It's why a lot of companies put their names on the side of arenas, because then it becomes like a thing that they can offer to clients or whatever.

00:16:47   This is about as big a ticket as you can score.

00:16:50   And Apple, I'm sure, get multiple boxes or whatever as part of this.

00:16:55   Well, they got obviously there's this big luxury suite and the stars are all in there and they're

00:17:00   doing parties beforehand and like it's a whole,

00:17:03   it's a whole thing, right?

00:17:05   And it's just one piece of Apple's larger strategy,

00:17:08   but I think this is an interesting Apple music

00:17:10   kind of thing and they're committed, right?

00:17:11   Isn't the deal for 10 years?

00:17:13   I mean, they're committed to this.

00:17:15   We'll see where it goes from here.

00:17:18   But you know, we're guaranteed that Tim Cook's

00:17:20   gonna take in at least one non-Auburn football game

00:17:23   a year now, it'll be the Super Bowl.

00:17:25   By the way, before we continue, speaking of Auburn,

00:17:28   I just wanna throw this out there if you don't know

00:17:30   Tim Cook's a big fan of Auburn College football. I believe Auburn plays at Cal

00:17:35   this year, so what I'm saying is Tim I have an extra ticket. Give me a call.

00:17:40   Okay. Take off that red shirt. One rumor roundup item this week. Ross Young is

00:17:46   suggesting that a 15.5 inch MacBook Air could be coming in April. Quote, "15.5

00:17:52   inch MacBook Air started panel production this month. We would expect an early

00:17:57   April launch. Right, remember Ross Young is a display analyst and therefore when he says started

00:18:04   panel production like this is one of those supply chain things which is he knows they're making the

00:18:09   displays now for this thing and that they know the size and they know what it you know the

00:18:15   everything all the specs of the panel and that that leads to this um this result but I like bring

00:18:21   it on I'm very excited about this because as we've talked about here several times um you shouldn't

00:18:25   need to spend more than $2,000 if all you really want is a bigger screen in your Apple

00:18:33   laptop, right?

00:18:34   I feel like this screen for Ross Young is real easy to guess, right?

00:18:38   Just because a screen of that size in the quality of display panel is only really one

00:18:44   place it can go.

00:18:45   It's not the spec of the MacBook Pro, it's probably the same spec as the smaller MacBook

00:18:51   Air panel.

00:18:52   So there you go.

00:18:54   Yeah. Love it.

00:18:57   And Apple has announced a new person coming to the executive board at the C-suite level,

00:19:05   a Chief People Officer, which is going to be a role fulfilled by Carol Surface, which

00:19:15   I like the Surface joke. I've been thinking, "Is there a joke around Surface that I can

00:19:20   get here but I couldn't think of one. Carol Surface is joining Apple.

00:19:25   From now on, going to be referred to as Carol iPad. Sorry everybody.

00:19:27   There you go. There you go. Oh boy. Carol Surface is joining Apple to fill the position

00:19:35   after spending a decade as vice president of HR, a medical device company called Medtronic.

00:19:42   Deidre O'Brien who was fulfilling these roles and then also took over the retail role back

00:19:48   in 2017 from Angela Ahrendts, Deirdre was running two roles, is now relinquishing HR

00:19:55   duties to focus fully on retail. Deirdre was people, moved to people and retail, and now

00:20:01   is letting go of people. So I wanted to ask you two thoughts on this. One, that this is

00:20:07   a C-level role, which is intriguing, and what do you think about bringing in someone from

00:20:13   outside of Apple to fill the role in charge kind of a like corporate culture.

00:20:18   Yeah, I don't think this role is really in charge of corporate culture. I mean, it's

00:20:23   a it's a it's an HR role. And in fact, the reason Deidre O'Brien got the retail job is

00:20:28   because most of Apple's people are retail people, right? Like, that's the truth of it

00:20:34   is the bulk of Apple's employees because I always see these stories, you know, sorry

00:20:38   for the tangent here, but like I see these stories about hiring in Silicon Valley, and

00:20:41   talk about the size that Apple is. And they're like, "Oh, and Apple has all these employees."

00:20:45   And it's like, "Yeah, but most of them are retail." And I'm not saying that retail employees

00:20:49   aren't like real employees. I'm saying, I see people use the employee number as a proxy

00:20:56   for how much R&D Apple is doing and stuff. And it's like, there is a group of people

00:21:02   who are in Cupertino and in other places who are building product, and then there's retail.

00:21:07   running this retail chain is an enormous task and it has a huge number of people employed.

00:21:14   There are different needs for people who are working in retail than the people who are

00:21:17   working writing software or designing a processor. So I don't know, bringing in an outsider is

00:21:24   always weird. They have so many different things about the culture, including Apple

00:21:27   University that I feel like, I'm sure they were concerned about it, but what they really

00:21:32   one is a good head of HR so that Deidre O'Brien doesn't have to keep doing it, right? Like

00:21:38   that seems to be the task here is so that Deidre O'Brien doesn't have to keep being

00:21:43   directly responsible for HR. So they brought they bring her in, Carol surface, they bring

00:21:48   her in at a CPO level, Chief People Officer level, probably because that's how they could

00:21:54   get her and they wanted her. We'll see how it goes, right? I mean, there is definitely

00:21:59   This feels like it might be fine,

00:22:01   but there is a track record of people coming in

00:22:03   from the outside to Apple and just not fitting.

00:22:06   And I'm sure that concerns them,

00:22:08   but just because it concerns them,

00:22:09   they may still have done this.

00:22:10   And there may even be a, well, we'll see.

00:22:13   In fact, if I were Carole Surface, I would say,

00:22:16   I'm gonna keep thinking about that name.

00:22:21   You got in my head now.

00:22:23   If I was Carole Surface, I would definitely want a,

00:22:25   what if this doesn't work out?

00:22:27   how much are you going to pay me to leave? I would have that consideration because there's

00:22:32   a non, anybody coming in from the outside at a high level to Apple, there is a non-zero

00:22:37   chance that you're not going to make it, right?

00:22:40   History does not work kindly on that.

00:22:43   You might be Browett level where you're just a bad cultural fit and kicked out almost immediately.

00:22:48   You might be an Angela Ahrendts level where it's sort of like, yeah, but not really and

00:22:53   let's just agree to part. And so anyway, if you're coming in at the level that Carol

00:22:59   Surface is, I would definitely want to have those scenarios plotted out. But I'm sure

00:23:04   everybody wants it to work. And it's not, I mean, I'd say what's critical about this,

00:23:10   I was going to say it was not a critical part of Apple's business. It is, but in a different

00:23:14   way than a lot of these other executive jobs, right? Like what are the most relevant things

00:23:20   Carol surface is going to have to deal with. I think it's going to be retention of their

00:23:25   existing employees, especially the ones who are highly valued and have a lot of stock

00:23:29   options and maybe, you know, maybe want to do something else and have a new challenge.

00:23:35   And then the big one, I think, is retail and all the issues, especially about unionization

00:23:41   in retail. Obviously a big area where a lot of news has happened in the last year about

00:23:48   unionizing or potentially unionizing at various retail stores and that's something that she's

00:23:52   going to have to, I'm sure you know, from the perspective of Apple, she's going to have

00:23:58   to handle it, right? Like make sure that doesn't happen is probably what her charge is going

00:24:02   to be. But yeah, we'll see. Interesting to bring anybody in from the outside. I guess

00:24:08   this means that Deidre O'Brien has gone well as head of retail, right? Like, because otherwise,

00:24:14   I mean, right?

00:24:15   Like, she's gonna keep doing that job

00:24:17   and that's just gonna be your job.

00:24:19   - I mean, it seems like the stores have kind of

00:24:23   restabilized, I guess.

00:24:25   'Cause there was a period of upheaval, some good, some bad.

00:24:28   Like, I think that was what they asked Andrew and I

00:24:31   to do, but then Apple's business changed underneath her,

00:24:34   right, and they had to start shifting iPhones.

00:24:37   No stores were not set up for shift in iPhones.

00:24:40   - Hard sell.

00:24:41   - And so I think that they've changed that around again,

00:24:44   But yeah, I mean, it's gonna be interesting

00:24:46   because like the unionization thing

00:24:48   is also something for Deidre O'Brien to deal with, right?

00:24:50   Like I feel like this isn't,

00:24:51   and well, reports have been suggesting

00:24:54   Deidre has been dealing with.

00:24:56   - Yeah, no, I think these all go,

00:24:58   I mean, these all go together and I, yeah.

00:25:01   Obviously they're gonna be working together

00:25:05   on a lot of this stuff because it is people

00:25:07   and it is retail and they go together.

00:25:09   So that's the case here.

00:25:11   I do wonder, I mean, first off,

00:25:13   there's a whole HR infrastructure, right?

00:25:15   And somebody has to do that part.

00:25:16   And that'll be, Carole Surface will be in charge of that.

00:25:19   But like, I do wonder about at what level

00:25:23   the retail head is involved in the details of retail.

00:25:26   Since there are so many retail employees

00:25:28   and they're so different from the other employees at Apple,

00:25:32   you know, are the retail employees

00:25:35   still kind of the province of Deidre O'Brien?

00:25:38   You know, does she have extra?

00:25:39   Like, I don't know how that works, the dynamic is.

00:25:42   Is Carole Surface gonna be more like,

00:25:43   you really need to focus on the people who aren't retail.

00:25:46   Deidre is still gonna focus on retail

00:25:47   and then obviously we'll still use the HR infrastructure

00:25:50   which reports to you how much that is

00:25:53   or how much it is that Deidre O'Brien

00:25:55   like has other things she needs to deal with

00:25:57   and doesn't need to spend all this time talking

00:25:59   about the retail employees and unionization

00:26:02   and all of that.

00:26:03   I don't know.

00:26:04   - She's got stores of inner store to build.

00:26:06   - Yeah, well, good luck to Carol iPad.

00:26:10   This episode is brought to you by Ladder.

00:26:13   Look, let's be real, I'm sure you, like me, have a tendency to put some things off

00:26:18   until the very last minute.

00:26:20   Whether it's going to renew your driving license, getting your next dental checkup

00:26:23   on the books, or getting around to that pile of home improvement projects you've got

00:26:28   going on, you know the kind of things I'm talking about.

00:26:30   We all have these things.

00:26:32   While most of the time it works out, the one thing in life that you really cannot afford

00:26:35   to wait on is setting up term coverage life insurance.

00:26:38   You've probably seen life insurance commercials on TV and thought "I'm going to get to

00:26:42   that" but this isn't something you should wait on.

00:26:46   Choose life insurance through Ladder today.

00:26:48   Ladder is 100% digital, no doctors, no needles, no paperwork when you apply for $3 million

00:26:54   in coverage or less.

00:26:55   Just answer a few questions about your health in an application.

00:26:59   Ladder's customers rate them 4.8 out of 5 on Trustpilot and they made Forbes best life

00:27:03   insurance list of 2021.

00:27:06   You just need a few minutes and a phone or laptop to apply.

00:27:09   Ladder's smart algorithms work in real time so you'll find out if you're instantly

00:27:13   approved.

00:27:14   There are no hidden fees, you can cancel at any time and you'll get a full refund if

00:27:18   you change your mind in the first 30 days.

00:27:21   Ladder policies are issued by insurers with long proven histories of paying claims.

00:27:25   They're rated A and A+ by AM Best.

00:27:28   And since life insurance costs more as you age, now is the time to cross it off your

00:27:34   list.

00:27:35   done. Go to ladderlife.com/upgrade today to see if you're instantly approved. That's

00:27:42   L-A-D-D-E-R-L-I-F-E.com/upgrade. One last time ladderlife.com/upgrade. A thanks to Ladder

00:27:48   for their support of this show and Relay FM.

00:27:53   It is report card season.

00:27:55   It is.

00:27:56   A couple of weeks ago we had the report card, well I had it, sent to me along with, how

00:28:02   How many people do you send the report card to now?

00:28:05   To complete?

00:28:07   - Oh, it's a large list.

00:28:09   I'm not gonna disclose how large it is,

00:28:11   although I don't actually know.

00:28:12   Not everybody fills it out.

00:28:13   So 55 filled it out this year.

00:28:15   - Okay.

00:28:16   And so we get it, it has a bunch of questions on it.

00:28:18   You know, like, what do you think of this?

00:28:19   What do you think of that?

00:28:21   Everyone goes through, fills out their scores,

00:28:23   send it back to you with comments.

00:28:26   You collate those comments and create a score

00:28:28   of kind of people in the community

00:28:30   who are observers of Apple.

00:28:32   I filled it out, you do not fill it out,

00:28:36   but today I will be asking you for your scores.

00:28:38   I wanna go through each category.

00:28:41   We'll take a look at where it was scored,

00:28:42   how it compares to years prior.

00:28:45   You can give your scores, I'll give mine.

00:28:46   And I've also pulled out some, I think,

00:28:48   really interesting quotes from some of the people

00:28:51   that sent this stuff in.

00:28:52   So we'll start, we'll go in the order

00:28:53   that the Six Colors Report card is ordered in.

00:28:58   we'll start with the Mac, which received an A- grade of 4.2 out of 5, which is a year-over-year

00:29:04   decline. So it was 4.6 last year, 4.7 the year before. Jason, what would you rate the

00:29:11   Mac in 2022?

00:29:13   I'm gonna say 4.

00:29:16   Okay. What makes you say 4?

00:29:19   And I think what's going on in the survey is similar to what makes me say 4. It's a

00:29:23   a decline from the debut of the M1 Macs in 2020,

00:29:27   still a very good score.

00:29:28   And I think four out of five is a very good score.

00:29:31   The reason it's not five out of five,

00:29:34   I mean, they have had some problems shipping Macs.

00:29:38   I think that is an issue.

00:29:40   And so the MacBook Pro and the Mac Mini

00:29:44   didn't ship until 2023, right?

00:29:46   And this is for 2022.

00:29:48   So I would mark them down for struggling with that,

00:29:51   for not fulfilling their promise

00:29:52   to close the Apple Silicon transition.

00:29:54   The Mac Pro is still floating out there as well.

00:29:57   But I'm generally positive on that side.

00:29:59   I would also mark them down for things like system settings

00:30:04   and I'm not gonna really mark them down on the Mac

00:30:07   for stage manager.

00:30:08   I think it's okay.

00:30:09   It's not for me.

00:30:10   But the system settings thing is a good example

00:30:13   of an own goal on a thing that like was not great,

00:30:17   but has not been, has been redone and is also not great.

00:30:22   and we've detailed that in the past.

00:30:23   So I could have given them five out of five,

00:30:25   but I feel like, you know, you know me, Myke,

00:30:28   I don't give five out of five for almost anything

00:30:30   because, you know, nothing is so perfect

00:30:34   that it can't be complained about.

00:30:35   - That's what they do say that about you.

00:30:37   That is a thing people say,

00:30:38   people say that specifically and about you quite a lot.

00:30:41   I, for me, it's easy five out of five.

00:30:43   Like, let me tell you why, right?

00:30:44   The MacBook Air, the M2 MacBook Air

00:30:46   is my favorite Mac of all time.

00:30:49   It is perfect, in my opinion.

00:30:51   The Mac Studio came out in 2022.

00:30:54   That is a whole new Mac that didn't exist before.

00:30:56   - It's true, and I love it.

00:30:57   - And the Studio Display, which wasn't perfect,

00:30:59   but I really wanted it and I love it.

00:31:02   I feel like-

00:31:02   - Those are arguments for five out of five, yeah.

00:31:04   - I feel like if these products would not have come out

00:31:06   at the start of the year, but came out later in the year,

00:31:08   the score would be higher than 4.2.

00:31:10   That's what I think.

00:31:12   - Yeah, I think that might be the case.

00:31:15   I mean, it's an interesting dynamic.

00:31:17   There's definitely a what have you done for me lately,

00:31:19   what's happened recently kind of vibe that happens

00:31:21   in these votes in general.

00:31:23   And what was last left with them was that period

00:31:26   where no Macs were announced,

00:31:27   when everybody thought we'd be getting new MacBook Pros.

00:31:31   - Alex Cox wrote, "It still feels like a Mac Renaissance

00:31:34   with the redesigned MacBook Air.

00:31:36   There feels like a default to what most consumers want

00:31:39   when they get an app or any laptop.

00:31:41   The lack of a Mac Pro update is disappointing,

00:31:44   but the M series of Macs we've gotten so far

00:31:46   are any indication it will be worth the wait."

00:31:50   John Syracuse said "I'm not dinging Apple for failing to "completely transition"

00:31:55   to Apple Silicon in 2022, but the continued lack of a larger than 24-inch iMac combined

00:32:00   with the inability to transition all the existing plain old M1 Macs to M2 means the Mac line

00:32:06   lacks the lustre of last year's M1-powered supergroup."

00:32:09   I think a lot of people might echo what John said there about wanting the M1s to turn over.

00:32:15   I know that you've been talking about, you've been kind of disappointed in the iMac as it

00:32:18   kind of just stayed where it was.

00:32:21   And Shelly Brisbane said,

00:32:24   "In a year where some were doubtless disappointed

00:32:27   that a favorite product wasn't refreshed,

00:32:29   the new Mac Studio and improved Macbook Air

00:32:31   are worthy additions to the lineup

00:32:32   advancing the silicon transition."

00:32:35   - Yeah, a lot of positivity there, right?

00:32:38   But is it perfect?

00:32:40   I don't know.

00:32:41   I mean, I think giving it a five is perfectly reasonable.

00:32:43   Giving it a four is, I think, pretty reasonable too.

00:32:45   - I think so too.

00:32:46   I think the Mac is in a very, very good place.

00:32:49   - I think it would be really, really hard

00:32:51   to beat the 2020 score of 4.7.

00:32:54   Like, I can't imagine them being able to surprise us

00:32:59   to the level that they did with the first round of M1 Macs.

00:33:03   Like, just how powerful they were

00:33:05   and how efficient they were.

00:33:06   - Yeah, no, that's the big moment

00:33:10   where you do a processor transition is,

00:33:12   that's always gonna be the best,

00:33:13   'cause after that, it's incremental again.

00:33:15   - Yep.

00:33:16   You always do these great charts.

00:33:18   What are these kind of charts called,

00:33:20   where it's like the lines with the circles?

00:33:22   Is there like a particular name for this kind of chart?

00:33:24   - I don't know, I don't know.

00:33:26   - We'll call it the circle line chart.

00:33:28   My favorite circle line chart

00:33:29   in the Six Colors Report card is the iPhone,

00:33:32   because it's just incredibly consistent, right?

00:33:34   Like the variance year to year is never more than like 0.5,

00:33:39   right, like it's incredibly consistent.

00:33:42   The iPhone scored a B plus, a 3.9 average.

00:33:46   Where would you have put the iPhone for 2022?

00:33:48   - You know, it's good, but boring.

00:33:54   I think I would probably give it a four.

00:33:56   I thought about giving it a three.

00:33:58   I don't love the low end iPhone being kind of like separated.

00:34:03   I understand it, but I don't have to like it.

00:34:04   I don't like the mini being dropped.

00:34:07   I don't like the old processor on the lower end models.

00:34:11   I don't, you know, it is also year three of this design

00:34:14   which I don't love.

00:34:15   I think that the pro design is not,

00:34:18   I mean, again, everybody can have their,

00:34:20   have their own personal style opinions,

00:34:21   but like, I don't like the iPhone pro design.

00:34:24   I don't like how heavy it is.

00:34:25   I don't like the stainless steel.

00:34:26   I don't like the look of it.

00:34:27   I think the look of the lower end phones is better.

00:34:30   And then this year they stuck a better processor

00:34:33   and a much better camera in the higher end phone,

00:34:35   making it so much better on a spec basis,

00:34:38   but still not a phone that I particularly like

00:34:41   to look at or carry because of the weight

00:34:43   and the choices they made

00:34:46   and the color choices that they made.

00:34:48   All of that is, you know, not my favorite.

00:34:52   I do love the features that they brought though this year.

00:34:54   The dynamic island is great.

00:34:56   The always on screen is pretty cool.

00:34:57   That camera is amazing.

00:34:59   So there's a lot of positivity there too.

00:35:01   So I kind of throw it in at four because the,

00:35:05   and it's what you said, right?

00:35:06   It's the iPhone is, the iPhone abides, right?

00:35:10   - And I own is there and Apple focuses on it

00:35:14   and makes sure that it's good and it is good.

00:35:17   But I have enough quibbles with it

00:35:20   that it gives me pause to give it a four out of five.

00:35:23   - Jessica Dennis wrote,

00:35:24   "I wish I hadn't traded in my iPhone 13 mini

00:35:26   "for the iPhone 14 Pro.

00:35:27   "It was small and pink and my new phone

00:35:29   "is not better enough that I don't miss that."

00:35:32   Just made me think, you know, you're saying about like,

00:35:35   is a big jump to go to the Pro

00:35:37   'cause not only is it bigger, it is heavier.

00:35:39   Like I would like to see them move away from stainless steel.

00:35:42   I've really enjoyed it for the years that I've had it.

00:35:45   Like it being nice and shiny with the gold is great,

00:35:48   but I wouldn't mind a weight reduction on the iPhone.

00:35:52   - I think, you know, I think the whole iPhone 12, 13,

00:35:56   14 Pro design, I think it's a misfire.

00:35:59   I think that it's not only leaving aside the lack of color

00:36:03   and the need for colors are to come in there.

00:36:06   The matte back, whereas the base model has the shiny back,

00:36:11   I think the matte back is boring

00:36:13   and doesn't look as good as the shiny back.

00:36:15   And the stainless is too heavy

00:36:16   and weighs the whole thing down

00:36:18   and the benefit of having the stainless ring.

00:36:19   So I've been using the 14 Pro

00:36:21   because I wanna use the Dynamic Island,

00:36:24   which there hasn't been as much Dynamic Island stuff

00:36:26   as I would like, although I'm looking forward to it

00:36:28   when baseball season comes around especially,

00:36:29   I wanna check that out.

00:36:31   But I've been using that and my mini is on my desk here

00:36:34   and I keep looking at it.

00:36:35   And I feel what Jessica Dennis feels, which is,

00:36:38   I'm not sure, other than the Dynamic Island,

00:36:41   the benefit that I'm getting out of here,

00:36:43   like I, let me put it this way.

00:36:46   If I didn't write about iPhone stuff as part of my job

00:36:50   and therefore want to see the latest and greatest

00:36:54   with especially the Dynamic Island,

00:36:56   I would just go back to the Mini that's sitting on my desk.

00:37:00   Like I would, because it, you know,

00:37:03   I don't think that the trade-off is worth it.

00:37:05   And part of that is just my objections in general

00:37:07   to some of the decisions they made on the pro side.

00:37:10   And you know, if you like your iPhone Pro, that's great.

00:37:12   I just, there are decisions they made

00:37:13   that we have now lived with for three years

00:37:16   that I disagree with, that I think are not,

00:37:19   were not the right ones.

00:37:20   So I hope they try to make that phone lighter.

00:37:22   And I hope they try to make it like,

00:37:24   not only weight lighter,

00:37:25   but like literally lighter and brighter.

00:37:27   And 'cause why should that phone be so boring

00:37:32   and did serious, it's ridiculous.

00:37:34   - So I gave it a four as well.

00:37:36   Like this wasn't like a mind blowing year,

00:37:39   but they did the things that I wanted them to do,

00:37:41   the always on display.

00:37:43   They brought the 48 megapixel camera,

00:37:45   but I don't think they really took full advantage of that.

00:37:48   And you can as a user, but it's complicated.

00:37:51   But the dynamic island kind of saved it for me

00:37:54   as this like this delightful little thing

00:37:56   that I wasn't expecting them to do

00:37:58   the way that they did it, right?

00:37:59   Like none of us did.

00:38:01   And it's been great.

00:38:02   Like you, I wish that there were more live activities

00:38:05   using the Dynamic Island than there are,

00:38:07   but the ones that do, I always really enjoy it.

00:38:10   Stephen Hackett wrote,

00:38:11   "The iPhone 14 Pro's Dynamic Island

00:38:13   "is the biggest UI change to come to iOS

00:38:16   "since the iPhone 10 ditched the home button back in 2017."

00:38:19   It is a big change, and I do hope that,

00:38:22   this is me now saying this, it is a big change.

00:38:24   I do hope that developers continue to embrace it.

00:38:26   There's been some that seem like obvious ones to me

00:38:29   that yet still haven't.

00:38:31   And it could just be one of those things

00:38:33   that like it's big companies and they take a long time

00:38:35   and Apple dropped it in September

00:38:36   and it's still not the time for people.

00:38:38   I don't know.

00:38:39   I want to read this one last quote from Christina Warren

00:38:42   who said, "The iPhone lineup this year,

00:38:44   like every year is good.

00:38:45   I'm no longer wowed by the iPhone the way I once was,

00:38:48   but that also doesn't matter

00:38:49   because the iPhone remains the best phone available."

00:38:51   Which I just think is like a really nice way

00:38:53   of putting it to be honest.

00:38:54   - Yeah, this is the challenge with the iPhone, right?

00:38:58   is like, we can criticize it, but like Apple,

00:39:02   Apple's very diligent in making sure that the iPhone

00:39:04   kind of motors along, even though we can criticize it.

00:39:07   It's not a product that we're like, what are they doing?

00:39:10   Right, like it's not quite like that.

00:39:12   - No.

00:39:13   The iPad got a C grade, three average.

00:39:18   That is the lowest grade the iPad has received

00:39:21   in all of the years that you have been doing

00:39:23   the report card.

00:39:25   - It is.

00:39:25   - Which is. - It is.

00:39:26   I mean, if you think back from now all the way to 2015,

00:39:30   I don't know if this is necessarily the worst year.

00:39:32   However, I think it's the kind of chain of disappointment

00:39:37   that has led to this, right?

00:39:39   - Yes.

00:39:40   - What is your grade?

00:39:41   - I am, I was tempted to give it a two,

00:39:45   but I'm gonna give it a three,

00:39:47   but it's one of those three pointing down kind of threes.

00:39:50   And here is, I don't know.

00:39:54   - I see what you're saying.

00:39:55   - It's like, you know, there's nothing more boring

00:39:57   than hearing people explain why

00:39:58   that they would give things a half rating

00:40:00   if the scale had half ratings.

00:40:01   I hate it.

00:40:02   And I was the one who chose no half ratings

00:40:03   'cause I don't wanna hear about your half ratings.

00:40:05   Choose.

00:40:06   And I've chosen a three, but just to be clear,

00:40:09   I was not choosing between a three and a four.

00:40:10   I was choosing between a three and a two here.

00:40:13   Look, the great,

00:40:14   and I think that the panelists really captured it.

00:40:17   The great conundrum about the iPad right now

00:40:20   is that the iPad, individual iPads are great.

00:40:25   Like iPadOS is incredibly capable.

00:40:28   Individual iPads are great.

00:40:31   They have great features.

00:40:32   There are little quirks here and there,

00:40:34   but like they have great features.

00:40:36   You could buy an iPad Air or a 10th generation iPad

00:40:39   and be very happy with those products.

00:40:41   They're very good.

00:40:42   You could buy an iPad Pro and be happy with it.

00:40:44   However, as a whole, looking at every product

00:40:50   that's available, looking at what the features are,

00:40:52   looking at what the prices are,

00:40:54   just pondering where the iPad is going,

00:40:58   where it's been, what it's trying to be,

00:41:00   doesn't make a lick of sense.

00:41:02   It doesn't make any sense.

00:41:03   And while I'm willing to have some sympathy for Apple

00:41:07   'cause of the supply chain issues

00:41:09   and some other stuff that they've run into,

00:41:11   the bottom line is they have had a long time

00:41:13   to get the iPad to make sense and they have failed.

00:41:16   And maybe they will someday make the iPad make sense again,

00:41:19   the iPad as a whole. But right now, they've got new features that are presumably going

00:41:24   to be in all iPads that have debuted in the low-end iPad. They've got a high-end iPad

00:41:29   called iPad Pro that still lacks, for example, their Pro software on it, even though it's

00:41:33   got the M2 chip now. They have got, uh, the features on the 10th generation iPad aren't

00:41:41   on the iPad Pro because the iPad Pro has unchanged since 2018. I think actually a bunch of people

00:41:46   I've seen anecdotally, decided to upgrade their iPad Pros to the M2 model from the 2018 model,

00:41:52   feeling like, you know, it was time to upgrade. And like, yeah, I guess it is, except it's largely

00:41:58   unchanged. The 2018 iPad was so powerful as it was that is your iPad really from 2018 still being

00:42:04   taxed, your iPad Pro, compared to the current model other than like external display support

00:42:11   or stage manager. The hardware situation is super confused. And while I, again, I'm sympathetic

00:42:24   to Apple with supply chain issues and all that stuff being in a bit of a jam here. But at the

00:42:30   end of the day, if I'm looking at the iPad line, it doesn't make sense. And that's on Apple.

00:42:37   and the fact that they were willing.

00:42:39   I think the most damning thing to me about the iPad

00:42:42   this year is not stage manager,

00:42:44   which I think Federico hates it.

00:42:46   I think it's okay.

00:42:47   I don't think it's great.

00:42:48   I think it's okay.

00:42:49   I think I understand what they're trying to do there.

00:42:52   I've got some frustrations about it,

00:42:54   but I don't use my iPad as aggressively

00:42:57   as Federico tries to,

00:42:58   so I understand that it doesn't meet his standards

00:43:00   and it isn't what he's looking for there.

00:43:03   But for me, the most damning thing

00:43:05   is that they decided to push out that M2 iPad Pro

00:43:08   with essentially nothing new about it,

00:43:10   rather than, I think what they should have done,

00:43:13   which is just wait six months, wait nine months,

00:43:17   wait a year, and actually do a proper new iPad Pro,

00:43:22   because of all the products for them

00:43:25   to just decide to let sit there,

00:43:29   the iPad Pro, I mean, it has really led for me

00:43:34   to a, that combined with that touch screen rumor

00:43:36   that we heard about, touch screen max,

00:43:38   led me to a real crisis of,

00:43:41   almost like an existential crisis about the iPad.

00:43:44   'Cause I'm now starting to think

00:43:46   the iPad is a brilliant product line

00:43:49   and the iPad Pro is a mistake

00:43:52   because they don't know what to do with it.

00:43:54   They can't put, you know, they can't equip it properly.

00:43:57   They can't even update it properly.

00:43:59   And then you look at the iPad Air

00:44:00   and you're like, "The iPad Air is right there

00:44:01   "and it's pretty good, right?"

00:44:02   Like think how positive the iPad lineup would be

00:44:06   if they weren't trying so hard with stage manager

00:44:10   and the magic keyboard and all of that stuff at the high end

00:44:15   and instead we're like, oh, look at this great iPad Air

00:44:17   and the 10th generation iPad

00:44:19   and it's a really nice solid tablet

00:44:21   within some lower constraints

00:44:24   rather than pushing it to the high end.

00:44:26   But before you say, well, it's those high-end power users

00:44:30   who are trying to make the iPad,

00:44:31   destroyed the iPad into something it's not,

00:44:33   I will just say since 2015, I think, 2014,

00:44:37   Apple has been selling a product called iPad Pro.

00:44:40   So Apple brought this on itself and here we are.

00:44:43   So, you know, the reason I don't give it a two

00:44:48   is because I do think the individual iPads are still great

00:44:51   and I use my iPad probably more than any other Apple device

00:44:54   and I love it.

00:44:56   My frustration is I think it,

00:44:58   I feel like it is in a bad place,

00:45:03   that the product line as a whole is kind of coasting.

00:45:07   And while there are good things that are happening

00:45:09   in parts of the iPad line,

00:45:11   it lacks any kind of cohesive vision,

00:45:15   at least that we can see.

00:45:17   And my hope for the iPad in the future

00:45:19   is that we finally see what Apple is trying to do here.

00:45:25   But we talk about this a lot about how more than half

00:45:30   of Apple's revenue is the iPhone

00:45:32   and the iPhone has to be the priority

00:45:34   and it does have to be a priority.

00:45:35   And then we had that moment where Apple's like,

00:45:38   no, no, we're committed to the Mac

00:45:39   and we've seen the Apple Silicon stuff on the Mac.

00:45:42   And then you look at the iPad and it's,

00:45:44   I know that there's some progress happening there,

00:45:46   but it's very hard to look at the current state

00:45:48   of the iPad line as a whole and not think this is in part

00:45:51   because Apple just hasn't thought it was important enough

00:45:54   because it's embarrassing.

00:45:56   Like rolling out some of those features on the low end iPad

00:45:58   and then just pushing the iPad Pro M2 update out

00:46:01   with nothing.

00:46:02   Again, it's a bad look.

00:46:04   And the fact that they thought that they could just like

00:46:07   push it out there and make everybody wait for 18 months

00:46:10   for another iPad Pro generation, I don't know.

00:46:13   I feel like it says a lot about,

00:46:16   not that Apple doesn't care, but that Apple is not,

00:46:21   you know, they haven't executed.

00:46:24   I guess that's what I'd say.

00:46:25   - Yeah, I gave it a two.

00:46:28   This is the product line I'm the most disappointed with.

00:46:31   As I wrote, I said that Apple had one job

00:46:33   to do with the iPad Pro this year and couldn't get it done.

00:46:36   - And they didn't do it?

00:46:36   - They just didn't do it, which was do something.

00:46:39   For me, what I'm referencing is the 11 inch, right?

00:46:42   - And the iPad Pros from 2022 are fine, right?

00:46:47   This is the conundrum, right?

00:46:48   Is they're fine, but they're also the same.

00:46:53   And I think that says so much to me about how they're,

00:46:58   that Apple seems to be content to just let it ride.

00:47:01   And those of us who are observing the iPad as a platform

00:47:05   say, no, no, no, no, no, no, you can't let it ride.

00:47:09   Don't do that.

00:47:10   And they did it.

00:47:11   - Let's see what Federico has to say.

00:47:12   I think it's great that I can now use my iPad Pro

00:47:15   of an external display and have a separate set

00:47:17   of app windows on it.

00:47:19   The problem is everything else.

00:47:20   In practical terms, aside from more concurrent

00:47:22   Windows on screen, iPadOS 16 doesn't let me get more things done on a daily basis compared

00:47:27   to iPadOS 15. I want to continue loving the iPad, but I also need to get my work done

00:47:33   and I'm tired of having to rely on supplementing my iPad Pro over Mac mini to do all the things

00:47:38   I need to do.

00:47:41   This reminds me of what David Sparks said I think last year, which set like a fire in

00:47:47   my brain which is just like I'm just gonna use the iPad for what it's meant for and I'm

00:47:52   gonna stop trying to make it do something it's not. I feel like Federico's kinda coming

00:47:58   to that now as well.

00:48:00   Steven Aquino wrote, "It feels like Groundhog's Day with iPadOS every year, standing at odds

00:48:06   with the top-notch hardware of the iPad." It's a beautiful way of putting that thing

00:48:09   that we say all the time, right? Of like, software's just gonna catch up with the hardware,

00:48:14   any day now, I suppose?

00:48:17   And Aline Sim says, "The iPad product line is more robust

00:48:20   than it's ever been, but none of the models

00:48:23   fit my needs well."

00:48:25   - It's kind of a mess.

00:48:28   As down as I am on the iPad in 2022,

00:48:31   I think they can get it together.

00:48:32   I mean, like the changes they made

00:48:33   on the 10th generation iPad are good changes, right?

00:48:36   Like moving the FaceTime camera is a good change.

00:48:41   But then they like, they said the iPad Pro,

00:48:44   "Meh, wait a year and a half.

00:48:47   "We're just gonna give you the same old thing now."

00:48:49   I think that's the root of it.

00:48:50   That and people who are very angry about Stage Manager.

00:48:52   I mean, for me, I think that's the root of it,

00:48:54   is by all accounts, and again,

00:48:57   Apple didn't announce anything, but by all accounts,

00:48:59   there was a next-gen iPad Pro that they were working on

00:49:02   that they basically didn't ship.

00:49:05   And it feels very much like they had to punt on that.

00:49:08   And as a result, you've got these new features

00:49:11   in the product line that are not in your high end product.

00:49:13   And that's not a great place to be in.

00:49:15   I'm sure that people at Apple know

00:49:16   that's not a great place to be in.

00:49:17   I'm sure they're frustrated that they couldn't get there.

00:49:20   But in the end, it's not my job to pat them on the back

00:49:23   and say, you'll get them next time.

00:49:24   It is my job to call it out and say, you blew it.

00:49:27   I'm sure there are reasons.

00:49:29   I'm sure it was hard.

00:49:30   I'm sure the supply chain didn't help.

00:49:31   I get it.

00:49:32   But bottom line is you punt it on the iPad Pro.

00:49:36   And if the answer is, well, what should we have done?

00:49:38   and the answer is not ship the M2 iPad Pro

00:49:41   and try to ship the next generation iPad Pro sooner

00:49:44   than a year and a half from now.

00:49:46   And maybe the answer would be, well, production line

00:49:48   and this is the only chance we get it

00:49:49   and then we have to wait 18 months.

00:49:51   And it's like, wouldn't you rather have the M2 than the M1?

00:49:54   And honestly, no, no, I don't want reheated M1

00:49:59   with M2 chips in there

00:50:01   and everything else is exactly the same.

00:50:03   I think that was a bad choice on their part.

00:50:08   That shows maybe that they don't care so much

00:50:11   about the people who buy iPad Pros.

00:50:13   - And like frankly, we are this hard on them, we all are,

00:50:17   because of what they do in the other categories, right?

00:50:19   Like we see they have the ability,

00:50:21   but it feels like time and time again,

00:50:24   they miss with the iPad.

00:50:25   And it's like, but you have had,

00:50:27   you know, you've done so much on the Mac

00:50:28   and the iPhone remains so consistent.

00:50:30   What is it about the iPad specifically,

00:50:34   where we seem to be having these issues?

00:50:37   And that's why we keep coming back time and time again.

00:50:39   And it's why the iPad score is slipping.

00:50:43   It went back up in 2017

00:50:45   and it's just been on a steady decline ever since.

00:50:47   So moving to wearables and Apple Watch,

00:50:51   which got an A grade of a 4.4 average,

00:50:54   you kind of couple this with Apple Watch only

00:50:57   as its own category that received an A minus

00:51:00   of a 4.2 average.

00:51:02   - Yeah, I used to only ask about Apple Watch

00:51:04   and only since 2019 have I changed it to be wearables.

00:51:07   because it was clear that that was the category.

00:51:11   And as a result, I didn't wanna kind of leave the,

00:51:13   lose the trend of Apple Watch.

00:51:15   At some point I'll drop that,

00:51:17   but for now the complexity remains.

00:51:18   If people ask me why I don't tweak these categories

00:51:21   year to year, this is why.

00:51:22   I think there's value in showing

00:51:24   here's how it's changed since 2015.

00:51:25   And if I tweak anything like this category,

00:51:29   I have to footnote it forever, essentially,

00:51:31   until I drop the data that was historical.

00:51:35   - So what is your overall wearable score

00:51:37   on your Apple Watch score?

00:51:38   - You know, I'll give it a four.

00:51:42   Apple Watch Ultra, good to see the Apple Watch platform

00:51:44   moving forward.

00:51:45   The main Apple Watch platform hasn't really moved forward

00:51:47   in quite a while now, but the Ultra was a move forward.

00:51:50   It's not as big a move forward.

00:51:51   Like the software doesn't seem to have really embraced

00:51:53   the Ultra, it seems like it's just a big Apple Watch,

00:51:55   but the hardware is very impressive.

00:51:57   That action button is an interesting idea

00:51:58   that I would like to see brought back perhaps

00:52:01   to the regular old Apple Watch at some point.

00:52:03   AirPods Pro 2 came out.

00:52:06   A lot of people call those out.

00:52:07   I love them, AirPods Pro 2.

00:52:09   I mean, I wouldn't have believed

00:52:10   that I would have loved the original AirPods

00:52:11   as much as I did.

00:52:12   I was very, very skeptical.

00:52:14   AirPods Pro 2, I mean,

00:52:16   then I started using AirPods Pro, which were great.

00:52:18   AirPods Pro 2 are amazing.

00:52:20   I love them.

00:52:21   The noise cancellation is incredible.

00:52:25   The sound is good.

00:52:26   It's pretty much everything I want

00:52:28   from a set of headphones that I would take around,

00:52:32   like not at my desk,

00:52:32   but that I go around and walk in the dog

00:52:36   or whatever, like all that stuff is happening.

00:52:38   So yeah, I'm pretty positive about it.

00:52:41   For, I don't know, I mean, the AirPods Max still exists

00:52:47   and hasn't been updated and it's not,

00:52:49   it's very weird and awkward.

00:52:50   And like I said about Apple Watch being kind of like

00:52:53   the main Apple Watch seems like it's kind of static

00:52:56   right now and that's enough for me not to give it

00:52:59   a five out of five.

00:53:00   - So you give a four for both?

00:53:02   - Mm-hmm.

00:53:03   For me, I give a 4 for the Apple Watch and a 5 for the overall category.

00:53:10   So with the Apple Watch, I think the Apple Watch Ultra is awesome, right?

00:53:14   Like it looks cool, they're doing a bunch of really interesting things in it.

00:53:17   It's something new and exciting.

00:53:20   But the Series 8, I still want a redesign of the regular Apple Watch and it's still

00:53:24   not happening and I can't fathom it at this point.

00:53:28   But AirPods 2, raw.

00:53:30   AirPods 2 might be the best thing Apple did last year, maybe the AirPods Pro 2 I should

00:53:35   say. It's in contention with me with the MacBook Air. I had my AirPods Pro in yesterday,

00:53:41   I wasn't listening to anything at the time, I could pause something or whatever, and I

00:53:45   whistled and I noticed my AirPods bring the volume down and I was like, what? Just every

00:53:51   now and then it gets me and I'm like, that adaptive transparency, the noise cancellation

00:53:56   is just unbelievable on something so small. The adaptive transparency is so good and I

00:54:02   love the volume control. It takes a little bit to get used to but once you get used to

00:54:07   it's an excellent addition. Quinn Nelson said AirPods Pro 2 are one of the greatest products

00:54:13   Apple has ever created. Marco Arment says the second generation AirPods Pro improved

00:54:17   on an already excellent product. Apple Watch Ultra was a bold risk to expand the watch

00:54:22   line up and it worked out very well.

00:54:24   And Alex Cox said, "I used to joke that Apple is the only company I trust with my menstrual

00:54:29   act physical, but the US Supreme Court made that monkey's paw into a harsh reality."

00:54:35   But this was the great thing about the Series A is the temperature thing that got added,

00:54:39   it was very singular and focused, but compared to the, what was it, six when they added the

00:54:45   blood oxygen, they actually had something you could use it for rather than just like,

00:54:50   "Hey, we do this now."

00:54:52   so they had an accurate story around the product.

00:54:54   Although I think overall the Series 8

00:54:56   didn't really move forward in a meaningful way.

00:54:59   Apple TV got a B grade with an average of 3.6.

00:55:06   What did you give it?

00:55:07   - I'm gonna say four.

00:55:13   - Oh, okay.

00:55:14   - Gonna be on the high side with this one.

00:55:17   I use Apple TV every day.

00:55:21   This year, they updated the product

00:55:24   and they made a cheaper version of the product,

00:55:26   which we've been asking them to do.

00:55:29   I feel like the Apple TV now makes sense

00:55:31   because Apple has put all of its stuff

00:55:34   on every box and TV that they can,

00:55:39   that what they,

00:55:42   the pressure's off the Apple TV in that way, right?

00:55:45   Like, it doesn't need to be the thing like,

00:55:47   well, if you want Apple stuff,

00:55:49   you gotta buy an Apple TV box and they're expensive.

00:55:51   And now it's more like, I don't know,

00:55:53   this year I feel more comfortable with the Apple TV

00:55:55   as being just a premium product that you pay more.

00:55:58   And do you get more?

00:56:00   I think there are arguments.

00:56:01   I try to keep up on those other boxes.

00:56:05   I have a Roku TV in my house.

00:56:07   I have a Fire TV.

00:56:09   I buy a new Fire TV stick or box every so often

00:56:12   just to keep up on the state of the art.

00:56:17   What I would say is if people are bothered

00:56:19   by the amount of sort of Apple TV marketing

00:56:21   that Apple does on the Apple TV,

00:56:24   they should see what is happening on the Roku

00:56:26   and on the Amazon products, because it's way worse.

00:56:30   Plus there's that argument about like those companies

00:56:33   want your data for various reasons.

00:56:35   And although you can turn that stuff off,

00:56:37   like Amazon's products especially,

00:56:39   they're marketing products.

00:56:40   Amazon products are sold to you at a loss or a discount

00:56:44   because they are trying to make it up on selling you stuff.

00:56:49   like that's just how it works. That's why I abandoned my Echo show. So having Apple

00:56:55   TV out there as a, I would say nicer, but more expensive equivalent, I feel more comfortable

00:57:03   with that. Now, Apple TV is a mess. In terms of the software, there are a lot of issues

00:57:08   with it. I've had remotes that become ghosts that flicker on the screen and I have to wipe

00:57:15   them and repair them and stuff. Some of the software is good, some of the

00:57:20   apps, some of the software is bad, but I will say I don't... I use it

00:57:31   every day and I still give it a good score. So that's what I would say is it's

00:57:36   not perfect but I think it's pretty good. And having used some of the alternatives,

00:57:40   I appreciate how good the Apple TV stuff is.

00:57:45   Plus being in Apple's ecosystem,

00:57:46   having the fitness app there and all that,

00:57:48   like that stuff is good too.

00:57:50   I'm not happy with everything they've done

00:57:51   in addition to their usual quirks.

00:57:53   They changed the behavior of the up next view

00:57:55   in the latest software update to make it feel more

00:57:57   like you're forced to watch an animated ad

00:58:00   while you're browsing what you wanna watch next.

00:58:02   Used to be when you browsed up next,

00:58:05   there was like a big picture of the thing

00:58:06   you were currently selecting

00:58:09   that was reinforcing what you were currently selecting.

00:58:12   And now that is a separate space for Apple to promote stuff.

00:58:15   And I will say it also feels like Apple has,

00:58:18   I feel like Apple TV used to be a little more

00:58:22   like Apple was trying to curate

00:58:23   the whole entertainment universe

00:58:25   that was available on Apple TV.

00:58:27   And that they also had the Apple TV tab

00:58:30   where you could get Apple TV Plus tab

00:58:32   where you could get their own content.

00:58:35   I don't feel that way anymore.

00:58:36   I feel like Apple is only now paying lip service

00:58:40   to the existence of other services.

00:58:42   And almost everything that I see is a promo

00:58:45   for a program on Apple TV+.

00:58:47   And while I understand it, I don't like it.

00:58:50   I preferred the approach that like in the TV+ tab,

00:58:53   it's all about TV+, but out in the main tab

00:58:57   of the TV app on Apple TV,

00:58:59   it should be a little more like,

00:59:02   many services are available on your Apple TV.

00:59:05   here are some things you could watch.

00:59:07   In fact, the system should know which ones are there

00:59:09   and linked and logged in and all of that,

00:59:11   linked to the TV app.

00:59:12   They should know that, and so it should be able to say,

00:59:14   oh, you have Paramount Plus,

00:59:16   did you know about this thing and all that?

00:59:18   And the truth is, nine times out of 10,

00:59:20   it feels like it's some, some,

00:59:21   often old Apple TV Plus stuff

00:59:23   that they're like trying to push my way.

00:59:25   And I don't, I don't love that about it,

00:59:27   because that makes them seem a little more Amazon-y,

00:59:30   but again, not to the extent of Amazon and Roku.

00:59:32   So anyway, that's my Apple TV state of the year.

00:59:37   How about you?

00:59:39   - I gave it a three.

00:59:40   I mean, and I'm giving it a three

00:59:42   based on everything you said.

00:59:43   Like I'm frustrated with them,

00:59:47   but like in a way that I expect them to do

00:59:49   some of this stuff, right?

00:59:50   Like it seemed like a natural thing that over time

00:59:54   they would trend more towards promoting their own stuff.

00:59:57   But really for me, I just feel like Apple is doing

01:00:01   purely what is needed and nothing more,

01:00:03   and there is more they could do.

01:00:05   They could do more for tvOS,

01:00:08   they could do more to make the TV app what it should be,

01:00:11   as you said, like an actual destination.

01:00:13   Netflix could be in there if Apple was willing

01:00:16   to give Netflix what they wanted,

01:00:17   which I still think they should do.

01:00:20   And they could also be doing more on hardware.

01:00:22   They could have even more cheaper options.

01:00:25   Like Benjamin Mayo made a good point

01:00:27   and said the most important thing for the Apple TV box

01:00:29   is to make it cheaper, and they did that.

01:00:30   And I think that's great, but it could still be cheaper.

01:00:34   Especially because they offer software versions

01:00:36   of the TV app, right?

01:00:39   - I feel like it's a more reasonable argument now

01:00:41   that Apple is making that, that more,

01:00:43   that Apple product, right?

01:00:44   That more expensive than the competition,

01:00:45   but you know, but it's also nicer.

01:00:47   'Cause I do think that that's true.

01:00:49   And that when you compare it to not the rock bottom one,

01:00:53   but the one that sort of meets it in terms of specs,

01:00:56   again, the Apple one is more expensive,

01:00:58   but you can make that argument.

01:00:59   you're in the ecosystem, you get some extra things

01:01:01   and all of that.

01:01:02   It's at least arguable in a way that I think maybe

01:01:04   before it was not at all.

01:01:06   And I understand Apple not wanting to go down there.

01:01:09   And I also understand that part of the appeal is that

01:01:11   Apple is not gonna be using your data

01:01:13   like Amazon and Roku are.

01:01:16   But a lot of us want Apple to be more competitive

01:01:20   with those companies.

01:01:21   And basically say, you don't need to sell your data

01:01:24   to Amazon, we have a product that you can buy instead.

01:01:27   And the problem is that I don't think there are ever,

01:01:29   not only is Apple not gonna go down there,

01:01:31   but they're also never gonna beat companies

01:01:33   that are designed to undercut their price

01:01:37   in order to get more people so that they can get more data.

01:01:40   - Yeah, like it's great that they don't sell my data,

01:01:44   but they also should be giving me a good experience

01:01:46   of good recommendations, right?

01:01:48   - I agree, I mean, yes, yes.

01:01:49   We've talked about this before.

01:01:50   Like the, I mean, well, also the truth is Roku,

01:01:53   you can turn it off, right?

01:01:55   I mean, you can turn it off.

01:01:57   But I get it.

01:01:58   I get people wanting to buy into the Apple TV thing.

01:02:03   I think it can be overstated

01:02:04   about the differences between them.

01:02:06   But I don't know.

01:02:08   Like I said, I think bottom line,

01:02:09   three would be perfectly reasonable too.

01:02:12   I gave it four, but I see where you're coming from.

01:02:14   I just think it's one of those things

01:02:17   that over the last few years,

01:02:19   I have gone from being like,

01:02:21   I've got an Apple TV out here,

01:02:22   and then I've got a Roku over here,

01:02:23   and I've got an Amazon thing over here

01:02:25   on the various TVs in my house.

01:02:27   And like, my daughter has an Apple TV,

01:02:30   my mom has an Apple TV,

01:02:31   and we have multiple Apple TVs in our house now.

01:02:34   'Cause it's reached the point where I'm like,

01:02:35   you know what, I'm not gonna,

01:02:37   I don't think that the experience on those other devices

01:02:40   is good enough and I'd rather spend for this and use it.

01:02:44   - Yep.

01:02:45   And Casey Liss wrote, "The remotes are great.

01:02:47   "I appreciate that the new one charges via USB-C.

01:02:50   "The software isn't perfect, but honestly it's consistent

01:02:53   "and mostly stays out of the way."

01:02:54   Which is, as you're saying, a good point, it's a reason to do it, right?

01:02:57   Like, the software might not be great, but it's not in your face either.

01:03:01   And it works.

01:03:02   Yeah.

01:03:02   This episode is brought to you in part by our friends over at ExpressVPN.

01:03:08   Watching Netflix without using ExpressVPN is like playing your favourite game

01:03:12   and not having all of the power-ups available.

01:03:15   Why limit yourself when there's so much more to be had?

01:03:19   I don't know if you know this, right, but some streaming services,

01:03:22   they have different content libraries for every country.

01:03:24   So there are tons of shows available in other countries.

01:03:27   And with a VPN, you can access those other libraries.

01:03:30   It basically tweaks these services to think,

01:03:32   like for them to know where you are right now,

01:03:34   you can tell them you're somewhere else.

01:03:35   And that could give you, for example, Canadian Netflix,

01:03:38   where you can watch all of "The Office,"

01:03:40   Turkish Netflix, where you can watch "Lord of the Rings,"

01:03:42   or you could go back to Canadian Netflix again

01:03:45   for "Back to the Future."

01:03:47   Also in the UK-- - How about this one, Myke?

01:03:48   - Go on, Jason, hit me with it.

01:03:50   - How about this one?

01:03:51   What if I'm going to New Zealand

01:03:53   and I want to keep watching the new season

01:03:55   of Star Trek Picard on Paramount Plus in the US.

01:04:00   The answer is I can do that with ExpressVPN.

01:04:03   - Let me tell you, Jason, it's so easy.

01:04:04   All you need to do is just open the app with one click,

01:04:07   choose the country that you want Netflix

01:04:09   to think you're in and refresh.

01:04:11   Perfect.

01:04:12   There are so many reasons to choose ExpressVPN.

01:04:14   It has blazing fast speeds.

01:04:16   You can stream in HD with zero buffering.

01:04:18   It's compatible with all your devices, your phones,

01:04:20   laptops, media consoles, smart TVs and more. They have servers in 94 different countries

01:04:25   so you can gain access to thousands of new shows or as Jason pointed out, when you're

01:04:29   away the show is in your home. Like Netflix, your home, Paramount, whatever. It works with

01:04:36   so many services you can stop paying full price for streaming services and only getting

01:04:40   access to some of the content. Get your money's worth at ExpressVPN.com/upgrade and don't

01:04:46   Don't forget to use this link, expressvpn, exp, ress, vpn dot com slash upgrade to get

01:04:53   an extra 3 months of expressvpn for free. Our thanks to expressvpn for the support of

01:04:58   this show and relay FM.

01:05:02   Services got a B+ grade at a 3.8 average which is an increase over last year but still not

01:05:10   hitting the highs of the 4 in 2020, where would you put it?

01:05:15   I'll give it a 4. I think that, remember when Apple was bad at services? I think Apple's

01:05:21   actually pretty good at services. I'm an Apple One bundle person. It saved me money, and

01:05:26   yeah, I know they raised their prices and all that, but I feel like I get a lot of value

01:05:30   after the out of the Apple One bundle, especially iCloud and Music and TV+, but the rest of it

01:05:37   and it's yeah, I think they're doing a pretty good job.

01:05:41   I think my questions about services are more

01:05:43   about the company as a whole relying on services

01:05:46   than I am about the actual services

01:05:49   where I think they actually do a pretty good job.

01:05:52   - This is an easy five for me.

01:05:54   So many of my favorite TV shows of last year

01:05:59   came from TV+, right?

01:06:01   So like "Severance", "For All Mankind",

01:06:06   - Loads.

01:06:07   - Severance, my favorite show of last year,

01:06:09   and it's an Apple TV Plus show that's pretty good.

01:06:12   - And I will say, this doesn't count,

01:06:13   but I will add it in, if you're not watching Shrinking.

01:06:16   - Oh, it's so good?

01:06:17   - Oh my God.

01:06:18   - I love it.

01:06:19   - Somebody sent this to me on Mastodon,

01:06:21   and it's true, it's like Ted Lasso good,

01:06:25   like in the way it makes me feel.

01:06:27   It is hilarious.

01:06:29   - It's got similarities, it definitely does.

01:06:31   I wanted to mention also, actually my favorite movie

01:06:34   of last year was "Treasury of Macbeth."

01:06:39   That's a "Washington," that's a TV+ movie.

01:06:41   - That got the upgrade, didn't it?

01:06:43   - Yeah, they got the two for last year.

01:06:46   Pretty good content on that TV+, so yeah.

01:06:50   - By the way, just to save the follow-up,

01:06:52   I know that we know that "Shrinking"

01:06:54   is Ted Lesser made, basically, right?

01:06:57   - Yes, yeah. - Like Brett Goldstein.

01:06:57   - You don't need to tell us Brett Goldstein

01:06:59   and Delorence are the ones behind "Shrinking,"

01:07:01   that's why it's got a little bit of that vibe.

01:07:02   It's not the same. - Harrison Ford is in it,

01:07:04   and Harrison Ford, hilarious, right?

01:07:06   - I laugh out loud.

01:07:08   - Incredible, so good.

01:07:09   - I laugh out loud at every episode of Shrinking.

01:07:11   And you know what?

01:07:12   There are not that many comedies that make me laugh out loud.

01:07:15   Yeah, I really enjoy it.

01:07:18   - So good, but that's not what we're talking

01:07:20   about here today.

01:07:21   Stephen Hackett said, "After years and years of begging,

01:07:23   "users of iCloud Photos have finally had their cries answered

01:07:26   "in the form of family sharing."

01:07:27   - It's true, that's a big win.

01:07:29   That's definitely in the favor of Apple services

01:07:31   that iCloud photos, which is already pretty solid now added

01:07:34   that family sharing feature at long last.

01:07:36   Again, do we reward them for doing a feature

01:07:37   that they should have done six years ago?

01:07:39   Probably, I guess a little bit, but you know, yeah,

01:07:41   it's now that it's here, it's good.

01:07:44   - Casey Liss, he's back again, says,

01:07:46   I don't like that I feel like they're just

01:07:48   nickeling and diming all their customers to death.

01:07:51   It seems like everything new must have a services component

01:07:54   or it never sees the light of day.

01:07:56   - Well, this is the other part of it, right?

01:07:58   Which is, do you judge Apple services

01:08:01   based on the services they offer

01:08:02   or based on what they're doing

01:08:03   to the company's approach to products.

01:08:05   And Casey took the other approach.

01:08:07   One of the beauties of the report card

01:08:08   is it is in the eye of the beholder.

01:08:09   It really is, what do you think of this open-ended question?

01:08:14   I personally didn't heavily consider that in this category

01:08:18   'cause I don't think that that's,

01:08:20   like, I don't think the fault of the services,

01:08:23   but who else are you gonna blame, I guess?

01:08:26   I do think that there is this real question,

01:08:28   which is Apple, I worry about Apple

01:08:33   trying to generate services revenue

01:08:40   by creating products that are not useful

01:08:44   or that are useful and should have been part of the product

01:08:47   but were withheld and made part of the service.

01:08:49   And they haven't done that so much,

01:08:52   but I'm concerned that as they go down this path,

01:08:55   we're gonna get more of that stuff where they,

01:08:57   You're no longer buying a whole product

01:08:59   when you buy an Apple product.

01:09:00   You're buying an expensive, nice Apple product

01:09:04   that you also need to pay a lot of money

01:09:08   in add-on services for it to do what you want.

01:09:10   And I think that down that path

01:09:12   could potentially be really bad for the company long-term.

01:09:17   - But on the flip side, Federico Vittucci says,

01:09:19   "I'm very happy with Apple's expansion

01:09:20   as a services company in the past few years.

01:09:22   In fact, I hope Apple does even more

01:09:24   and continues to grow in this field."

01:09:26   - Sure, they just need to do it right and not do it bad.

01:09:29   - Because the stuff that they've done this good

01:09:30   is so good, right?

01:09:32   - Yeah, no, the only one that gave me pause at all

01:09:34   was some of the privacy stuff that they said

01:09:36   you've gotta be an iCloud Plus user to get on the iPhone.

01:09:41   Some of their IP hiding mail privacy,

01:09:46   there's some stuff where you've got to pay them

01:09:50   to get an OS feature.

01:09:52   - It doesn't really seem that that stuff works very well.

01:09:55   - Yeah, that's the stuff that gives me

01:09:57   the heebie-jeebies though, right?

01:09:58   Like that's the stuff where I feel like

01:09:59   we are now sort of saying,

01:10:01   would you like your phone to work better, pay us.

01:10:05   And I don't know, like privacy features are,

01:10:10   like I can get it when they're like,

01:10:11   well yeah, but we have to set up a whole network of services

01:10:13   and it costs us servers and it costs us money.

01:10:15   And like, yes, I totally understand it.

01:10:18   And yet it gives me just like, it's like, wait a second.

01:10:20   I feel like we're, if we haven't crossed the line,

01:10:23   we're like right on the line now

01:10:24   of you selling incomplete products

01:10:26   that must be completed through services.

01:10:28   And that's the danger, not what Federico says,

01:10:31   which is do more services that are great.

01:10:33   Like if Apple can make more services that are great,

01:10:35   like Apple TV+, let's like bring it on.

01:10:39   Let's do it.

01:10:40   If those exist, whatever those will be.

01:10:42   Or fitness, plus. - Need like servers,

01:10:46   but they don't charge for them, right?

01:10:47   Notes, messages, reminders.

01:10:49   Like, you know, just because there is a cost

01:10:53   - It doesn't mean they have to charge you, right?

01:10:55   But sometimes they choose to.

01:10:57   - It's true.

01:10:57   - HomeKit and Home got a D plus,

01:11:01   so 2.7 out of five,

01:11:04   which is exactly level with where it was in 2021.

01:11:07   What would you rate the Home efforts?

01:11:10   - I'm gonna give it a two.

01:11:11   - Okay.

01:11:12   - And these are my two data points

01:11:15   that I'm gonna throw out there.

01:11:16   One is I got a HomeKey lock this year,

01:11:19   and HomeKey is great.

01:11:21   And I'm so happy that Apple built that.

01:11:23   And I'm so happy that products are rolling out

01:11:25   that have Home Key support in it.

01:11:26   'Cause it means that instead of the weird Bluetooth stuff

01:11:29   that we used to do, I can walk up to my front door

01:11:31   and touch my Apple Watch to the face of the lock

01:11:34   and it unlocks.

01:11:35   And Lauren can do that too.

01:11:36   And Julian can do that with his phone when he's home.

01:11:38   And Jamie can do that with her phone when she's home

01:11:40   'cause they don't have Apple Watches.

01:11:42   That's so great.

01:11:44   And the old smart lock just wasn't reliable

01:11:47   'cause it was Bluetooth and I have to see you go

01:11:48   and then you come back.

01:11:49   and then you wait and maybe it unlocks

01:11:53   or maybe you have to put the code in or whatever.

01:11:55   Home key, great little feature, part of HomeKit,

01:11:59   really nice, I like it.

01:12:00   Then my second point is everything else,

01:12:02   but if I had to boil it down, it would be this,

01:12:05   which is Apple, and all of the people on the panel said this,

01:12:09   Apple is essentially in stasis

01:12:12   because they're waiting for Matter, Matter got delayed,

01:12:15   Matter is now out, but it's not really,

01:12:18   Apple's supportive matter isn't out.

01:12:20   Of course, famously, they tried to do

01:12:21   this underlying architecture change late last year.

01:12:24   They had to stop rolling it out

01:12:26   because something bad happened

01:12:27   and they were like breaking people's houses again.

01:12:30   So that's the problem here is I actually have a lot of hope

01:12:34   in the smart home category for Apple

01:12:36   because I do think matter is made to address

01:12:39   a lot of the issues we have with HomeKit.

01:12:41   The problem is it's just not here.

01:12:45   Like it has been so slow,

01:12:47   not only for the products to come out,

01:12:49   but for Apple's support for it to come out.

01:12:51   So maybe 2023 will be the year that Apple gets it together

01:12:56   because matter, it becomes a thing

01:12:58   and it solves a lot of these problems.

01:13:00   But right now this was a whole year

01:13:01   where we waited around for matter and it never showed up.

01:13:04   - Yeah, as Shirley Brisbane said,

01:13:06   "The mass transition continues to be rough

01:13:08   and will hopefully work itself out in 2023."

01:13:11   Yeah, like this, I gave mine a two as well,

01:13:13   'cause it's like really there was two things that they did.

01:13:16   Like they did a redesign of the home app,

01:13:18   which was like fine, like it's fine.

01:13:22   And the meta rollout, which I don't even know,

01:13:25   it is unclear exactly what went wrong,

01:13:28   but it went wrong enough that they had to redo it.

01:13:31   And I just think in general,

01:13:33   the product offering is uninspiring.

01:13:36   Like the actual hardware, the home hardware

01:13:39   that Apple make and sell is just not really great.

01:13:42   And they make so little of it.

01:13:44   And this is the other point too, right?

01:13:47   Which is what's Apple doing in this category?

01:13:49   We now have a second big HomePod

01:13:53   and we have the existing HomePod or HomePod mini.

01:13:56   So they've got those,

01:13:58   but like they miss the boat in a bunch of categories.

01:14:01   Are they gonna come back or are they not?

01:14:03   Does Matter give them the opportunity to say,

01:14:05   "Oh no, everything works with our stuff now

01:14:06   and it's all great."

01:14:07   Sort of like it's been the mystery.

01:14:10   we have talked about it for several years now.

01:14:12   It is this mystery of Apple's home strategy.

01:14:16   What is it and does it exist?

01:14:17   It seems to exist in some way

01:14:19   because they've got the HomePod

01:14:20   and the Apple TV and HomeKit,

01:14:22   and yet there's very little tangible evidence of it.

01:14:26   And matter was the biggest thing to come along

01:14:29   and it's still not here.

01:14:30   - Hardware reliability got an A at 4.5,

01:14:35   which has maintained this score for the last three years,

01:14:39   probably because of the keyboards, I'm assuming.

01:14:42   What do you think on that?

01:14:45   - Yeah, I think that's about it.

01:14:47   Yeah, like hardware reliability, sure.

01:14:52   I'll say five, sure.

01:14:55   This is a place, Apple's doing great here.

01:14:58   I have not personally had any hardware problems.

01:15:02   The hardware problems have been,

01:15:03   or the hardware has been solid.

01:15:05   Everybody's happy with Apple Silicon

01:15:07   and happy that there are no butterfly keyboards anymore.

01:15:10   And I'd go along with that.

01:15:11   I feel like this is Apple's strength right now

01:15:13   is that their hardware is just churning along.

01:15:16   - Yeah, I was a five too.

01:15:17   It's like, I haven't really had anything to say.

01:15:19   Everything's great.

01:15:20   No issues here, right?

01:15:22   I like what Steven said,

01:15:23   which like users can also get their own parts now

01:15:26   through the self-service repair program.

01:15:28   Like not only is there no issues,

01:15:32   you now have even more ways to fix these things,

01:15:35   even if maybe you wouldn't realistically,

01:15:36   but it's a good showing at least from them

01:15:39   that they're continuing to put more effort into this area.

01:15:43   Software quality got a B- at 3.4.

01:15:48   That is the same score as last year.

01:15:50   Where would you rate Apple software quality out of five?

01:15:53   This one has so much bundled into it.

01:16:02   Like it's a complicated one, I think to score.

01:16:06   - Yeah, I'm gonna say three because my,

01:16:11   the quality of the software I'm running is pretty good

01:16:15   in the ways of like, does it let me do my job?

01:16:18   Does it crash?

01:16:19   Does it get weird?

01:16:20   And the answer is not so much, right?

01:16:22   And like the Mac especially,

01:16:24   I feel like the update was not an update

01:16:26   that introduced a bunch of problems in terms of stability.

01:16:30   However, the reason it's only a three

01:16:33   is there's the rest of it, right?

01:16:34   There's that, especially that system preferences app

01:16:39   on the Mac, which again, just was a mistake.

01:16:43   I think there is this lingering concern about the Mac

01:16:50   and like, is it stagnating and what's going on with SwiftUI

01:16:55   and what's the future of software on the Mac

01:16:58   and is it web apps or is it iOS apps or is it Mac apps

01:17:01   or do we know?

01:17:04   But I think that there are some lingering concerns

01:17:09   and there's some stupid moves that they've done.

01:17:11   And yet day to day, my Mac and my iPad,

01:17:15   my iPhone actually worked pretty well.

01:17:18   - I gave it a three.

01:17:20   Stage Manager was a, could have been so great, right?

01:17:24   Like just in general, I use it and like it on my Mac.

01:17:28   I want to love it on my Mac

01:17:29   and I want to want to use it on my iPad.

01:17:32   I feel like this one of those things where this happens every couple of years during

01:17:37   the keynote, the WWDC keynote they show off a thing and it's like, "Oh my God, they've

01:17:42   done it."

01:17:43   And then you get it and you're like, "Oh no, they didn't."

01:17:47   Once you've actually spent some time with it and I feel like this is it.

01:17:50   However, I am a person who happily used the stage manager on Mac OS all day every day

01:17:54   and I work with it and around it and it works for me.

01:17:59   Davinjohadwar agrees, "It's very nice to see Apple change up its multitasking philosophy

01:18:04   with Stage Manager."

01:18:06   David Sparks says, "It's becoming increasingly clear that Apple is turning up the dial on

01:18:10   their productivity software.

01:18:11   Notes, then reminders, and now mail are increasingly feeling more powerful and useful.

01:18:16   This year we got another entry with Freeform."

01:18:19   And John Gruber says, "I still have the same concerns about the direction of Apple's software

01:18:24   design that I did last year, especially on the Mac, but I think the software reliability

01:18:29   has been excellent.

01:18:30   I think that's a good point, right?

01:18:31   You look at something like,

01:18:33   like Mac OS was great overall, right?

01:18:35   But then you've got system settings, which is rough.

01:18:39   It's every time I open it, I'm like,

01:18:41   I don't know where anything is.

01:18:43   Like, I always have searched,

01:18:46   but there were a bunch of things where I didn't.

01:18:48   You know, like what I had,

01:18:49   something I had to do last week, Jason,

01:18:51   I had a, I was having an issue

01:18:55   with my wired connection in the studio,

01:18:57   but there is like a kind of private,

01:19:00   semi-private public Wi-Fi that I will connect to

01:19:02   when I was trying, I was waiting for something

01:19:04   to be fixed on my ethernet switch.

01:19:06   And so I had to reorder the priority of ethernet and Wi-Fi.

01:19:11   It's like buried under like three menus.

01:19:14   It's like, why is it so hard?

01:19:17   You know, like I know where that used to be.

01:19:19   I would go to network.

01:19:20   But like I've opened it now and like,

01:19:22   it's like, okay, network.

01:19:24   and then it's under a, there is a button

01:19:28   which is three dots and an arrow pointing down, right?

01:19:33   What kind of button is that?

01:19:36   The button is three dots.

01:19:38   - It's a mystery button.

01:19:39   - And then you hit that button

01:19:40   and then you can get the set service order.

01:19:42   But what is a button that is just three dots?

01:19:47   - I guess it means more?

01:19:50   - But why not say more, right?

01:19:52   Like what is a three dot button?

01:19:55   You know, stuff like that.

01:19:57   It's weird.

01:19:57   - Yeah, yeah.

01:19:58   I called out the,

01:20:01   the wifi is a good example of that

01:20:05   where there's like these things like

01:20:07   they've got an advanced button.

01:20:09   It's like, why is the,

01:20:14   it's like, we wanna hide this stuff from you.

01:20:16   But some of it we'll put there,

01:20:17   but some of it we won't.

01:20:18   There's so many inconsistencies

01:20:20   in so many different places.

01:20:21   But yeah, in the networking, that three dot button

01:20:25   is bananas, right?

01:20:26   That's the, they put back the locations

01:20:29   and the set service order,

01:20:31   but why does that one not say advanced?

01:20:33   In the wifi, it says advanced down there.

01:20:34   And that one, it just says dot, dot, dot with a dropdown.

01:20:39   And like, well, I mean, look,

01:20:40   I wrote about this for several thousand words this summer

01:20:43   and the short version of it is Apple's a big company.

01:20:47   They've got a bunch of people who they employ

01:20:50   to do things like style guides and software architecture.

01:20:54   And it feels like this is a project

01:20:55   that didn't even get supervision

01:20:57   in terms of like organizational structure and style guides.

01:21:01   Like somebody should be saying,

01:21:03   here's what these buttons,

01:21:04   here's the rules for when you use this

01:21:06   and when you use that.

01:21:06   And that app does not show any evidence that that happened.

01:21:09   And if there was somebody who was trying to do that,

01:21:12   nobody listened to them.

01:21:13   Because this is an app that needs a style guide,

01:21:16   it needs information architecture,

01:21:18   it needs organizational structure.

01:21:20   I could go on and I did all summer,

01:21:22   so I'm gonna leave it there.

01:21:23   It's a mess.

01:21:24   - Developer relations got a C minus,

01:21:27   which is a 2.8 score,

01:21:29   which is the same as last year.

01:21:32   - Yeah.

01:21:33   - And I was thinking at first, I was like,

01:21:36   oh, I thought it would have been lower than last year,

01:21:38   but then I remembered the year prior

01:21:40   was when there was all that stuff with like,

01:21:42   hay, right?

01:21:43   Was getting, and there were a lot of issues

01:21:45   around just like app store approval,

01:21:48   and then they was like there to do a dog and pony show

01:21:50   on that one, change a bunch of rules.

01:21:53   Where would you write developer relations for 2022?

01:21:57   - Two hundred and twenty-two and a three,

01:21:58   I think I'm gonna give it a two.

01:21:59   - Okay.

01:22:00   - I appreciate that Apple has done some things

01:22:02   to improve their relationship with developers,

01:22:05   like the developer center and everything else

01:22:07   that they did for WWDC,

01:22:09   and having developers come to WWDC.

01:22:13   And I think that that is a great event that,

01:22:17   and the sessions they put out are great.

01:22:19   Like there's so many positive things about that.

01:22:22   And I like that we continue,

01:22:24   a lot of people we know are small developers

01:22:26   who fall under their small business thing

01:22:28   and means that Apple is only taking 15%

01:22:30   and not 30% from them.

01:22:32   And that continues to be good.

01:22:33   And yet, I have to say,

01:22:36   everything else is so bad

01:22:39   that it's gotten to the point where like, okay,

01:22:44   and we have friends who worked on this,

01:22:46   But like, let's talk about that developer center,

01:22:49   which is a beautiful building

01:22:50   located across the street from Apple Park.

01:22:52   And we were in it, or sorry, I was in it

01:22:54   for an episode of Upbeat.

01:22:55   - Why? - You were not.

01:22:56   - Why would you do this?

01:22:58   - We, you were there virtually.

01:23:00   I'm sorry, I didn't mean to say that.

01:23:01   - I know, I know, I know.

01:23:03   - And I've been inside it,

01:23:05   and a bunch of us were inside it.

01:23:07   And then, just not you. - Some healthy people

01:23:11   are inside.

01:23:11   - Yeah, uh-huh.

01:23:14   - Okay, let me just, let me just,

01:23:17   I'm trying to make a serious point here, so let me make it.

01:23:19   I appreciate all the work that went into it

01:23:22   and all the effort that went into it.

01:23:23   And I don't doubt that those people really wanna have,

01:23:26   people who work in developer relations

01:23:27   really wanna have great, it's their job.

01:23:29   They wanna have great relationships with developers.

01:23:33   And yet with all that other stuff that's going on,

01:23:36   it's very hard for me to not look at that

01:23:38   and ultimately just say, it's a PR ploy.

01:23:43   Like I just, it's gotten to that point now

01:23:46   where when I look at Apple doing nice things for developers,

01:23:49   I can't look at it as being anything.

01:23:55   And it was always a little bit of that,

01:23:57   but like now as anything other than kind of greenwashing,

01:24:00   right, kind of saying, "Oh no, no, no, look, look,

01:24:03   don't regulate us, we actually do care,

01:24:05   we are doing, look at what we do voluntarily

01:24:08   while they're getting squeezed by regulators

01:24:12   and threatened by politicians in the US and elsewhere.

01:24:17   The reason the scores, I think, stayed so low this year

01:24:20   in the Six Colors Survey is this happened not too long

01:24:23   after they rolled out that ad unit on App Store app pages

01:24:28   that was full of gambling ads and other really gross stuff.

01:24:31   And as I said at the time, but I wanna repeat it here,

01:24:34   the issue isn't just the advertising,

01:24:37   the issue is also that that app page is the only place

01:24:40   that developers have are allowed to have a relationship

01:24:44   really with their users in the App Store

01:24:46   because of all of Apple's other rules

01:24:48   where Apple wants you to think of yourself

01:24:50   as an Apple customer,

01:24:51   not the customer of a third party developer.

01:24:53   Third party developers can't communicate with those users

01:24:56   via email or anything like that or offer things.

01:24:58   There's all sorts of things or links to their website

01:25:00   or anything like that because again,

01:25:03   it's all controlled by Apple.

01:25:04   And so it was really like the most unkind cut of all.

01:25:09   It was that, that they were then putting a sleazy ad

01:25:14   on that page.

01:25:15   And then we can look at everything we've detailed

01:25:17   on this podcast in terms of Apple,

01:25:20   every time Apple is doing something to add a tool

01:25:24   to the developer's toolbox,

01:25:26   it's something that developers have wanted

01:25:28   for more than a decade that Apple has steadfastly refused.

01:25:32   And when they do offer it,

01:25:33   it is either because they realize

01:25:35   they're going to be forced to,

01:25:37   or they are forced to, and those are the options.

01:25:41   So it's just a tough situation when I talk to people

01:25:44   who I know who are Apple developers.

01:25:46   I feel like the hope is gone in a lot of ways.

01:25:49   There used to be hope that Apple would kind of get to this

01:25:52   and change its mind and all of that.

01:25:53   I think the only hope that remains now

01:25:55   is the hope that external forces basically demand

01:25:58   that Apple change its ways,

01:25:59   because I think everybody has sort of resigned

01:26:01   over the last year, Apple statements in various cases.

01:26:04   it seems to me Apple has hardened its resolve

01:26:07   that the stuff that it does that bothers developers

01:26:11   is actually right and what they should be doing

01:26:13   and the developers should like it and take it.

01:26:16   And I don't know, waiting for the EU or something

01:26:21   to sweep in and demand that Apple

01:26:23   give developers more rights,

01:26:25   that's like that's what they're left with now.

01:26:27   And it seems like a completely dysfunctional relationship

01:26:31   that if you wanna view it as entirely

01:26:34   a transactional relationship, a financial relationship,

01:26:37   I mean, that's what it feels like at this point.

01:26:39   And it certainly feels like that by the other part of this,

01:26:41   which is Apple's claims that they have to have

01:26:44   the App Store be exclusive because it's a well monitored area

01:26:48   full of, you know, that they're curating and all of that.

01:26:51   'Cause the truth is that there's all sorts of awful stuff

01:26:54   that stays in there seemingly because of the financial

01:26:57   transactional relationship between Apple

01:27:00   and those developers of sleazy apps,

01:27:03   Apple wants the money.

01:27:04   And so they stay in the store

01:27:05   and then there's also other scam apps.

01:27:07   And it's just like the app store isn't a clean,

01:27:11   well-lighted, carefully curated place.

01:27:13   And so that directly contradicts all of their claims.

01:27:16   So yeah, I think at this point,

01:27:18   Apple no longer receives any benefit of the doubt,

01:27:21   not from me and not from developers

01:27:23   when it comes to this stuff.

01:27:24   I think they've shown their true face

01:27:26   and their true face is, show me the money,

01:27:29   do what I say, and we won't change our ways.

01:27:33   Even if we think that they're,

01:27:35   even if they're wrong, even if you think they're wrong,

01:27:37   we don't, we won't change our ways,

01:27:39   you're gonna have to make us.

01:27:41   And that's a tough partner to have if you're a developer.

01:27:44   - I wanna read a quote from John Siracusa's answer.

01:27:47   "Apple seems to merely tolerate developers,

01:27:49   and developers continue to mostly tolerate Apple,

01:27:52   but too much has been said and done

01:27:54   to damage the relationship.

01:27:56   Apple's reflexive expressions of love for developers now ring hollow.

01:28:01   Developers' complaints continue to fall on deaf ears.

01:28:04   The only thing that seems to move Apple at all is the threat of government regulation.

01:28:10   I always want to give them a one in this category.

01:28:12   That's kind of where I feel.

01:28:14   But for me, I gave them a three because of WWDC.

01:28:18   I think there are people that care and the care that those people have was shown during

01:28:25   the week of WWDC this year in the S of what they did for people that couldn't make it

01:28:31   or didn't want to travel and what they did for the people that did travel. And I think

01:28:36   that that was good.

01:28:37   I think that's the shame of it, right? Is that we know people at Apple who care a lot

01:28:43   about developers. It's undeniably the case. And yet, at a higher level within Apple, you

01:28:50   know, they will still do what they're doing. And that's because at a higher level within

01:28:55   Apple, they've decided these are the policies. And so what you end up with is a bunch of

01:28:58   people at lower levels who are saying, "Look, we know what the policies are, but we love

01:29:04   you and at least we care about you." And it's just a very difficult dynamic. Because I don't

01:29:09   doubt those people. Those people are, that's their job is to do that. I just, I feel now

01:29:14   my attitude toward it has been that those people essentially are there in order to have

01:29:19   the people at the higher levels being able to point at them and say, "See, we care about

01:29:23   developers and it's like, well, they care about developers, but the decisions you're

01:29:27   making, person who's pointing at them, I'm not so sure about you, right? So that's where

01:29:33   we are, unfortunately. And you know, Myke, I know this is stuff, this is basically another

01:29:39   Year in Review and Apple Overview episode that we're doing here. We talk about this

01:29:42   week to week. But like, I think maybe our biggest frustration about this is it didn't

01:29:47   have to be this way, right? That Apple could have come out with a little bit of a different

01:29:54   attitude and then they wouldn't be facing the scrutiny, they wouldn't have the anger,

01:29:59   but like instead they chose the path which was, "No, we are going to fight every battle.

01:30:06   We're never going to relinquish control. We're never going to leave a dollar on the table."

01:30:11   And that they chose this path. And that's really too bad because for 10 years a bunch

01:30:16   of us have been waving our arms saying, "Don't do this, don't do this." And they have chosen,

01:30:21   in many ways, some of the most extreme choices along the way. So it's too bad.

01:30:26   It's not like this is a 2022 problem. None of this is new.

01:30:33   I mean, this started when the App Store started, really, and has gone on. And they've reformed

01:30:38   some of those issues. And again, it's not a little thing to go... That small business

01:30:42   program is not a little thing to let the smaller developers only give Apple 15%. That's not

01:30:51   a small thing. That's had a huge impact on some of those smaller developers. But all

01:30:56   these other issues remain and then when they have come in lawsuits or other things to public

01:31:02   areas, they've decided that their strategy is going to be, "We're right and we're going

01:31:08   to take it all the way and you're going to have to make us and even then we're only going

01:31:11   follow the letter of the law. It's like okay, all right.

01:31:15   - And then finally, social and societal,

01:31:18   oh, I said I gave a three for that one.

01:31:20   I don't remember, developer relations, I gave a three.

01:31:22   Social and societal impact,

01:31:24   'cause a B- and average of 3.4,

01:31:26   which is a slight increase over last year,

01:31:29   but still down on some of the heady days

01:31:32   of the four points that we've gotten here.

01:31:34   Out of five, how would you rank

01:31:36   Apple's social and societal impact?

01:31:39   I don't even know how to answer this one.

01:31:42   I'm fascinated by this category

01:31:44   because the whole idea here is,

01:31:46   Apple says it wants to make the world a better place,

01:31:50   how's it doing?

01:31:51   It's sort of the way that I did this.

01:31:53   And also remember when I started this in early 2016,

01:31:56   asking about 2015,

01:31:57   or maybe it was late 2015, asking about 2015.

01:32:01   There was stuff in the news about Apple in China

01:32:05   and Apple with environmental concerns and like,

01:32:08   And that stuff, like the issues ebb and flow

01:32:12   and change over time, but there's always this idea

01:32:14   that Apple is out there saying,

01:32:15   "Look, we're making the world a better place."

01:32:18   And if you're gonna, like a company that didn't do that,

01:32:22   I don't know if I would ask about it,

01:32:23   but like they brought it up. (laughs)

01:32:26   So how do we feel about Apple

01:32:28   making the world a better place?

01:32:29   And in a lot of ways, like environmentally,

01:32:31   I think that they actually have made a lot of progress.

01:32:35   They seem to be spending a lot of effort

01:32:38   getting more and more of the materials they use, especially, you know, not just aluminum

01:32:43   where they're, you know, most of their stuff is becoming recycled aluminum, but they're

01:32:47   trying to do that with the rare earth minerals and they're really trying to reclaim things

01:32:52   from out of their, out of their older products that get turned back in. Although I know that

01:32:59   you could make the point that if they really, really cared, they could also boost what they

01:33:04   pay for old products to get them back.

01:33:06   This is my saber rattling on this one.

01:33:09   I think Apple's trade-in, I gave them a three for me.

01:33:12   I think the social and societal impact one is like a litmus test for whatever thing it

01:33:16   is that someone cares about the most, maybe more than any of these other ones, because

01:33:20   it is so broad.

01:33:21   For me, I just feel like Apple took such a big game over the environment, but the amount

01:33:26   of money that they offer for trade-ins is smaller than other companies that will also

01:33:31   buy your devices back.

01:33:32   and I feel like considering they have the most to gain over the reclaiming of these

01:33:38   products and also the most money in the first place, that they should offer a higher amount.

01:33:44   If it goes back to Apple, Apple can either sell it on or recycle the parts which they

01:33:47   use to make more iPhones that they sell to you.

01:33:50   And if you give a good trade-in credit, you'll buy another iPhone, you won't take that cash

01:33:54   and spend it on something else, and then you'll be still back in the ecosystem giving Apple

01:33:58   more money on all their services.

01:33:59   They should be offering more money for trade ins than anybody else, but they offer so much

01:34:04   lower money on trade ins than independent companies that want to buy your devices.

01:34:14   Stephen Hackett says Apple continues to do important work in the areas of environmental

01:34:18   conservation and social, but the back and forth over its return to office plans and

01:34:23   its willingness to look the other way in China continue to be troublesome if not downright

01:34:27   – hypocritical.

01:34:29   Shelley Brisbane says Apple's accessibility updates this year were pretty good, as was

01:34:34   Apple's much appreciated decision to feature accessibility related announcements in a context

01:34:39   of their own.

01:34:41   Lex Friedman says Seeing Tim go on walks with Elon isn't quite as aggravating as seeing

01:34:46   Tim bend the knee to Donald Trump, but until and unless Apple can decouple itself from

01:34:51   China all the recyclable elements in the world won't negate its overall societal weaknesses.

01:34:56   BRIAN KENNY There's a lot, like I said, there's a lot going on and everybody brings their own

01:35:01   their own thoughts to it. I think it's interesting that Apple is now trying to not rely on China

01:35:06   quite so much. But again, I think the issue there is more about their survival than they're feeling

01:35:11   like they don't want to be in business with China, right? Like it's not it's not the same. So yeah,

01:35:17   I appreciate this category every year because it really, really what I'm doing is it's a fill in the

01:35:24   blank of like, what do you think Apple is making the world a better place or no, explain, right?

01:35:31   And you end up getting this kind of vibe. I'll point out that this number has come down.

01:35:36   The trend is downward even though it went up slightly this year. The trend, general trend,

01:35:41   is downward. So I think that over the time that it's almost lost a full point of average

01:35:47   on the panel. So I would say people's feelings about whether Apple is making the world a

01:35:52   better place in 2015 were a lot more positive than they are in 2023.

01:35:56   The more you say it, the harder it is to actually do it. Jason, thank you for putting together

01:36:02   the scorecard again. I think this is a valuable resource in our community. I know it's a lot

01:36:06   of work, but it is greatly appreciated.

01:36:08   - It's, you know, I get to generate some charts,

01:36:11   I got to put some numbers in some spreadsheets,

01:36:13   and I get to read, you know, tens of thousands of words

01:36:17   from people who submitted tens of thousands of words.

01:36:20   I want to point out that what I tell people is not,

01:36:25   don't you dare write long responses, right?

01:36:28   Which is, I think, how Steven took it, which is,

01:36:31   and by the way, it's great, I need to do a link post today

01:36:34   about all the people who posted their results,

01:36:36   'cause like the people who wrote a lot, I edited it down

01:36:40   and thought, well, you can just post your results

01:36:42   on your own website if you want to.

01:36:44   And I know Federico did and Steven did and John Gruber did.

01:36:47   That is true, I love that.

01:36:51   The reason I say that is because there was one year early on

01:36:55   where Christina Warren wrote like full blog posts

01:36:58   essentially for every one of the categories.

01:37:01   And I was like, "Christina, I can't use this."

01:37:03   And so now what it's doing is it's not,

01:37:06   'cause I listened to Connected last week

01:37:08   and Steven's like, "Oh, I made Jason mad

01:37:10   by sending him a lot of words."

01:37:11   It's like, you know, I don't mind reading them.

01:37:13   I just edit them down.

01:37:14   It does cause me a little bit of work,

01:37:15   but that's not the issue.

01:37:17   The reason I say what I say when I send that out

01:37:19   is that it eliminates my guilt

01:37:23   when I cut their responses, right?

01:37:25   That's the, look, I told you I didn't need you

01:37:28   to write a lot and that if you wrote a lot,

01:37:31   I would cut them.

01:37:32   So that's how that ends up.

01:37:35   but it's great to read them.

01:37:36   And then I cut a lot of them and it's a fun idea.

01:37:41   It wasn't mine.

01:37:42   Koi Vinh, the designer, suggested this to me in 2015.

01:37:45   And he said, "Somebody should do this.

01:37:46   "Maybe it's you."

01:37:47   And I said, "Sure, let's do it."

01:37:49   And it's a good thing.

01:37:52   Again, what does it tell us?

01:37:53   I think is the overarching question.

01:37:55   And I think the answer is,

01:37:56   I'm just trying to get the sense of the vibe in the room.

01:37:58   It really is that, which is like,

01:38:00   what's the mood of people who pay attention

01:38:03   to Apple right now?

01:38:05   what's their mood about Apple's business

01:38:07   in various categories?

01:38:09   Is it better?

01:38:09   Is it worse?

01:38:10   What are they concerned about?

01:38:11   And I think that's the value of it

01:38:12   is just sort of getting that sense

01:38:14   of how's everybody feeling?

01:38:16   What are the hotspots?

01:38:17   What are the spots where Apple's doing great?

01:38:20   And I think that's the value of it.

01:38:24   And it's worth doing.

01:38:26   - This episode of Upgrade is brought to you by Fitbond.

01:38:30   This is a time of year when many of us think

01:38:32   about changing our fitness plans.

01:38:33   So I'm pleased to tell you that Fitbud is both an easy and affordable way to build a

01:38:38   fitness plan that's just for you.

01:38:40   Now why is that important?

01:38:41   Why do you want something that's just for you?

01:38:42   Well personal fitness shouldn't be about competing with other people.

01:38:45   You want something that is for you because that's when it's going to work for you.

01:38:49   It's when it will stick and you'll see the results that you're looking for.

01:38:52   So Fitbud does this.

01:38:53   They have an algorithm that learns about you and your goals and your training ability to

01:38:58   create a custom dynamic program based on your experience and access to equipment all in

01:39:03   an app that makes it incredibly easy for you to learn and perform every exercise. They

01:39:08   have over 1400 HD video tutorials shot from multiple angles to make sure that learning

01:39:14   every exercise is a breeze. Because everybody's fitness path is different, Fitbod will use

01:39:20   data to make sure they customise things to suit you exactly. Their powerful technology

01:39:25   understands your strength training ability, studies your past workouts and adapts to the

01:39:29   the training plan will maximize fitness gains by intelligently varying intensity and volume

01:39:36   between sessions.

01:39:38   I love Fitbod.

01:39:39   There's a few things I love about it.

01:39:40   I love the videos because it makes it really easy for me to learn every exercise.

01:39:44   So if I'm doing something new I can see how they look and from the different angles to

01:39:48   make sure that I'm positioning my body right for the strength training stuff.

01:39:52   And also I love how it integrates with my Apple Watch.

01:39:55   So I can adjust reps and sets there if I want to, if I want to do more or less of something.

01:40:01   And also if there's exercises that I know, like I can see what the exercise is, and if

01:40:04   I know what it is I can just do it, but then if I need the video then I'll go and look

01:40:08   at my phone and get the video so I don't have to have my phone in front of me the whole

01:40:11   time while I'm working out.

01:40:12   Personalized training of this quality can be expensive, but Fitbod is just $12.99 a

01:40:16   month or $79.99 a year, but you can get a massive 25% off your membership by signing

01:40:23   up at fitbod.me/upgrade. Go now and get your customised fitness plan at fitbod.me/upgrade

01:40:30   and you will get 25% off your membership to get that 25% discount. Thanks to fitbod for

01:40:40   their support of this show and relay FM.

01:40:45   Lets finish up today with some Ask Upgrade questions.

01:40:49   comes from Austin who asks,

01:40:51   "How do you listen to podcast live streams?

01:40:54   Are there any certain apps or services

01:40:56   that you use for this?"

01:40:57   - Broadcast by Steve Trout and Smith.

01:41:01   It's in the app store. - That's the one.

01:41:02   - Works on the Mac, works on the iPad,

01:41:04   works on the iPhone, works on the Apple Watch.

01:41:06   I actually listen to "Connected" live on Wednesdays

01:41:11   while walking my dog. - Amazing.

01:41:14   - And I'm only listening on the cellular Apple Watch

01:41:18   'cause I don't bring my phone with me using AirPods.

01:41:21   It's great.

01:41:22   - Yeah, that is the way to do it.

01:41:23   - I mean, the experience is great.

01:41:24   Connected, you know, it comes and goes,

01:41:26   but the experience is great.

01:41:27   - I can't believe it. - Broadcast.

01:41:28   - I can't believe it.

01:41:29   Can you imagine that you would say this directly to my ears?

01:41:32   You never hear such a thing.

01:41:33   You can listen in a bunch of ways, websites.

01:41:37   The way that broadcast works is that there are URLs

01:41:42   available, right?

01:41:43   So you can listen with the URL to the Relay livestream,

01:41:46   like what we're doing now, the ATP livestream and others.

01:41:50   There are some, like we have pipe,

01:41:53   that's the URL that pipes into our Discord,

01:41:55   but that can be a semi reliable experience in the Discord.

01:41:59   Like we recommend people check out broadcasts

01:42:01   because Steve Transmuth is awesome.

01:42:03   The app is great, it's really nice,

01:42:05   and is a great way to listen to this stuff.

01:42:08   Roy wrote in and says,

01:42:09   "Your conversation about Maggie Rogers last month

01:42:11   "had me re-listening to Surrender, and I wondered,

01:42:14   either of you have a do you have like first listen headphones? The convenience of AirPods

01:42:19   means they're with me 100% of the time and I found myself listening to albums for the first

01:42:23   time through them. I wonder if you consider song fidelity when listening to something for the first

01:42:29   time on AirPods especially from an artist that you like a lot. So Jason do you have like a rule

01:42:35   of thumb for listening to an album for the first time? Is it headphones? Is it speakers? Do you have

01:42:39   specific hardware that you like to listen to it on?

01:42:44   Sorry to disappoint everybody. No, I don't.

01:42:47   I think that's an interesting question in and of itself, right? Like, Roy wants to know,

01:42:53   do you consider it? So, no.

01:42:55   The only thing I consider when I'm listening to a new album is, am I going to be able to

01:42:59   pay attention to it or not? Because most of my music listening that happens is at my desk

01:43:07   And I have the Sonos One speakers and I play music while I work.

01:43:13   Because I play music that's familiar enough that unless I'm writing, in which case I might

01:43:18   go to some specific playlists, in general I just got the music on and it's fine.

01:43:24   And so if I'm working on something deeply, a new album from an artist that I love coming

01:43:30   out and me playing it, I'm not going to be able to work on anything deeply because I'm

01:43:33   going to need to pay attention.

01:43:34   So either I'm gonna press play and listen

01:43:36   and essentially not work, or I'm gonna go,

01:43:41   I'll listen to it later in a different setting.

01:43:45   And that might be AirPods or it might be in my living room.

01:43:48   Who knows what on the speakers, the 5.1 system

01:43:52   I have in my living room, I mean, maybe.

01:43:54   But I've also had it happen where it's been like in the car

01:43:58   because I'm driving somewhere and the new album came out

01:44:00   and I'm listening to it in the car and you're like,

01:44:01   "Oh, but the fidelity."

01:44:02   It's like, yes, but the complete attention put on the album

01:44:07   is the contrast there, right?

01:44:08   Like, would I rather listen on amazing headphones

01:44:13   but not pay attention or listen on car speakers

01:44:17   and pay attention?

01:44:17   And the answer is the latter, right?

01:44:19   I think the attention is part of it,

01:44:21   partially because I owe it to that album

01:44:23   to listen to it and pay attention,

01:44:24   but also because I know if it's something that's unfamiliar,

01:44:28   there's no way I'm gonna be able to pay attention

01:44:31   to something else and have it playing in the background because that's not how my brain

01:44:35   works. I need it to be somewhat familiar for me to be able to kind of like not pay attention

01:44:40   to every word that's going on.

01:44:42   I am pretty similar to you. Like if it's the first time that I'm listening to an album,

01:44:50   I will want to listen to it in a way that I can give more attention to it. So I can

01:44:54   listen to the lyrics and stuff like that and try and kind of get a sense of it a little

01:44:57   more than to just put it on in the background. But then once I know it, I'm happy to just

01:45:02   have it on more.

01:45:03   I've also found that sometimes I appreciate an album much more on second, third, fourth

01:45:08   listen and that in some ways it's better for me to process it a little bit first and then

01:45:14   listen to it sitting in my living room with the volume up high. Sometimes. But I don't

01:45:19   have a ritual for it and I don't have special headphones for it or anything like that.

01:45:24   I always do like to check if an album is in special audio like the Dolby Atmos because

01:45:29   I am a person who really enjoys that experience.

01:45:32   So if that's the case then I will also want to make sure that I'm listening on my AirPods

01:45:36   Pro for that, which tend to be how I listen to music when I'm not at home anyway.

01:45:41   Liam asks, "Do you have any hidden home screen pages?"

01:45:46   Do you hide home screen pages?

01:45:47   No.

01:45:48   I have lots of them for various focus modes.

01:45:52   So I have like travel home screens, I have weekend home screens, what else I have?

01:46:01   Travel and weekend and vacation home screens, like there's specific apps and widgets that

01:46:08   turn on and off dependent on focus modes.

01:46:11   So I actually use that feature quite a lot and I'm happy that they added it because then

01:46:14   I get to have a bunch of very specific home screens at very specific times.

01:46:18   So yes, I have loads of them.

01:46:21   If you would like to send in a question of your own, the best place to go is upgradefeedback.com

01:46:25   and you can send an Ask Upgrade question.

01:46:28   Very soon there's going to be the ability for you to tag a submission.

01:46:33   It's just like follow up or Ask Upgrade or Snail Talk.

01:46:36   It's coming very, very soon.

01:46:38   Maybe even the next couple of weeks.

01:46:39   So that's super awesome.

01:46:40   But you can just send them in however you like and they all go into a bucket and I read

01:46:44   it all and we'll put things in for follow up and questions and stuff like that.

01:46:47   It's not a real bucket.

01:46:49   It's like just a list in the CMS.

01:46:50   It's not an actual bucket.

01:46:51   - It all goes into a bucket, believe it or not.

01:46:53   I print them all out, cut them up, put them in a bucket,

01:46:55   and that's how I choose the questions.

01:46:56   - How big is the bucket?

01:46:57   Is it like a big five gallon bucket?

01:46:59   - Huge.

01:46:59   I have to keep getting a new bucket

01:47:01   'cause there's so many questions.

01:47:03   - You should empty it.

01:47:03   You should take those and recycle them.

01:47:05   - Oh, it's just that many, Jason.

01:47:07   It's just that many. - I'm questioning

01:47:08   your commitment to the environment now, by the way.

01:47:10   - It's 100% recycled paper.

01:47:12   That's recycled again.

01:47:14   - All right.

01:47:15   - You can check out Jason's writing at sixcolors.com,

01:47:18   and hear his podcasts at the incomparable.com and here on Relay FM.

01:47:21   You can listen to me here on Relay FM.

01:47:23   Check out my work at cortexbrand.com.

01:47:26   You can send your feedback and questions to us at upgradefeedback.com.

01:47:30   Thank you to our members who support us with Upgrade Plus.

01:47:33   Today, we're going to play a game of Marvel Snap during Upgrade Plus,

01:47:39   and we're going to make a video of it and put it in the show notes for Upgrade Plus.

01:47:43   Go to getupgradeplus.com and sign up if that is of interest to you.

01:47:47   I want to thank our sponsors for this week's episode, Fitbaud, ExpressVPN, and Ladda.

01:47:54   But most of all, thank you for listening.

01:47:57   I'll be back next week.

01:47:58   Until then, say goodbye, Jason Snow.

01:48:00   - Goodbye, everybody.

01:48:02   Take care of the podcast while I'm gone.

01:48:03   See you in a few weeks.

01:48:04   - Bye.

01:48:05   (upbeat music)

01:48:05   [MUSIC PLAYING]

01:48:09   [ Music ]