450: Funko Classicals


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:08   From relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 450. Today's show is brought to you by

00:00:14   ExpressVPN and Campital One. I'm Mike Hurley and I'm joined by Jason

00:00:18   Snow. Hi Jason. Hi Mike Hurley. I'm back two in a row for

00:00:22   me. Look at that. Making a streak here in

00:00:25   episode 450. We're starting a new record. Can you go? What would it be?

00:00:29   - It might be, so you went to, you got like 447.

00:00:33   So now you have to get to 448 episodes.

00:00:35   - Even then I cheated by recording segments and--

00:00:38   - Doesn't matter.

00:00:39   - You know, but we've broken the glass now.

00:00:41   So now when I go on vacation again--

00:00:43   - It's gonna be a full time.

00:00:44   - We'll just, yeah.

00:00:46   See, here's the problem.

00:00:48   My lovely wife has a real job and limited vacation time.

00:00:53   So I could just go whenever.

00:00:56   - Whenever you want.

00:00:57   But I can't, so yeah, exactly.

00:01:00   - I have a Snell Talk question for you, comes from David.

00:01:04   David wants to know,

00:01:06   what device do you use the most for iMessage?

00:01:09   - I feel like this is really just a proxy

00:01:12   for what device you use the most, at least for me,

00:01:15   because I am usually using a device.

00:01:18   And so I'm gonna disappoint people, I suppose,

00:01:22   or at least I'm gonna once again say

00:01:24   what I've said on the show before,

00:01:25   which is, I am not your typical Apple product user

00:01:30   in the sense that I don't use my iPhone very much.

00:01:33   I don't go outside.

00:01:34   I don't like, right?

00:01:35   And when I do go outside, I often,

00:01:37   I just bring my Apple watch.

00:01:38   So the answer is probably my Mac,

00:01:43   but maybe my iPad, 'cause it's all contextual.

00:01:47   And I'm usually either on my Mac or my iPad.

00:01:50   And if I'm not on them, the iPad is close to me.

00:01:53   The phone generally sits on its charger.

00:01:57   So it's usually not at hand at any point

00:02:00   unless I'm out and about.

00:02:02   So I would say, you know, it's either my Mac or my iPad,

00:02:06   depending on context.

00:02:07   So that's the truth of it,

00:02:10   is I just don't use my iPhone very much.

00:02:12   - For me, I'm not sure of the exact answer.

00:02:15   It's probably my iPhone because of weekends, right?

00:02:20   So like I'm not sitting in front of the Mac

00:02:21   or my desk on the weekends, right?

00:02:23   so I'm texting them on my phone.

00:02:25   But I know that recently I have come to want to more

00:02:29   frequently send iMessages at my Mac

00:02:32   because I like to use my actual nice keyboard

00:02:35   rather than the iPhone keyboard.

00:02:36   - Yep.

00:02:37   - I'm less likely to have auto-correct issues

00:02:40   and stuff like that.

00:02:41   But I think realistically it's probably my iPhone

00:02:44   because I am only at a Mac

00:02:48   whenever I'm at the studio.

00:02:51   Outside of that, I'm going to be using my iPhone.

00:02:54   If you would like to send in a "Snow Talk"

00:02:56   question of your own, just go to upgradefeedback.com,

00:02:59   and you can tick the box, fill it out,

00:03:02   and your question may be answered on a future episode.

00:03:05   We have some follow-up, Jason Snow.

00:03:07   -Okay. -Julianne and Michael

00:03:09   both wrote in to suggest --

00:03:10   We were talking about two-factor codes and SMSes

00:03:13   and stuff like that -- that they create a contact

00:03:16   for their two-factor codes

00:03:18   and then add all of the numbers

00:03:19   that you get codes from to it.

00:03:21   I've heard, I think John Siracusa recommend this before.

00:03:26   The reason I'd never done this is because I'm too lazy

00:03:28   to do it, to be honest, is the real reason.

00:03:31   If it was simple, fine.

00:03:34   But the idea of having to do that all the time,

00:03:36   I just never done it.

00:03:37   Plus, up until very recently,

00:03:39   I had significant issues with my contacts

00:03:43   and them saving those devices

00:03:45   to the point where maybe this is a few months ago,

00:03:48   I exported my contacts from my Mac and I deleted them all.

00:03:53   I ran them back in again, did a de-duping thing and busy,

00:03:57   I think it was busy contact I used,

00:03:59   de-duped all my contacts

00:04:00   'cause they had triplicated over time.

00:04:03   So I de-duped them all, put them back in,

00:04:05   and now it's all perfect.

00:04:06   If I had a contact on one device, it syncs up on another,

00:04:09   this would be years this would be going on for.

00:04:11   So these are the two reasons.

00:04:13   I did create a Mr. Two-Factor contact,

00:04:18   and I'm trying that out.

00:04:21   But I think our larger point was,

00:04:22   it would be nice if the system knew

00:04:26   that these were just two-factor codes

00:04:27   and kind of just hid them, right?

00:04:29   - Well, it did more, right?

00:04:30   'Cause we know that they do.

00:04:32   We know that they do.

00:04:33   - I think maybe Android does that out.

00:04:34   Somebody said like after a couple of weeks,

00:04:36   Android kind of like suppresses them

00:04:38   'cause they know that they're just not important.

00:04:41   And I just, I feel like that's an area that Apple could explore.

00:04:45   I do have a funny thing in my found.

00:04:47   This is a tangent, but a funny thing I found in my contacts.

00:04:50   Okay.

00:04:51   If you'd like to, if you'd like to see it.

00:04:53   Yeah, I'd love to see it.

00:04:54   So this is like stupid contact tricks.

00:04:56   So when I go to Arizona, my mom lives really far outside and I used to rent a

00:05:02   car, but car rental now is incredibly expensive and I discovered that there's

00:05:06   this real cottage industry in my mom's community out in the middle of nowhere,

00:05:10   where people from that community make money,

00:05:12   basically picking up people at the airport

00:05:15   and driving them back

00:05:16   or driving people from that community to the airport.

00:05:19   But it's really kind of like a transitory kind of job.

00:05:24   People get other jobs.

00:05:25   Like the first guy who drove me,

00:05:26   he was like also selling real estate on the side.

00:05:28   And then the last time he took me, he was like,

00:05:30   "Yeah, I'm stopping.

00:05:31   You set this up, so I'm driving you,

00:05:34   but I'm out of the driving business

00:05:36   and I'm in the real estate business half full time."

00:05:38   And so they keep moving around

00:05:39   and sometimes they're not available

00:05:40   and they recommend other people.

00:05:42   And as a result, at the bottom of my contacts list,

00:05:44   I have this collection that I sent you the screenshot

00:05:48   in the Discord, this collection of people

00:05:50   who are all first names followed by a car emoji

00:05:53   of some sort.

00:05:55   So I've got, you know, Dan blue car, Ryan blue car,

00:05:59   Chris red car.

00:06:00   And then yesterday I put in,

00:06:02   while I was trying to find somebody to take me

00:06:03   to my mom's house, Bart, Carol and Mary taxi emoji.

00:06:07   And that's how they live.

00:06:09   They're all, I have my little car fam

00:06:11   down there at the bottom.

00:06:12   - Do these people do like Uber and Lyft as well?

00:06:17   - Some of them do.

00:06:18   - Right.

00:06:19   - Some of them do Uber and Lyft as well.

00:06:21   Absolutely.

00:06:23   - Does your mom live in like a village kind of?

00:06:26   'Cause this feels very village-y to me.

00:06:28   - It is, so she's more than an hour

00:06:31   outside of the Phoenix Airport and it's in a town,

00:06:35   but it's actually not in that town.

00:06:36   It's out.

00:06:38   - Yeah, I mean, basically it's like a housing development

00:06:40   where there's just a load of houses

00:06:43   and on one side of the street, it's the 55 plus community.

00:06:47   And on the other side of the street,

00:06:48   anybody can live there and there's like pools

00:06:50   and pickleball courts and whatever else.

00:06:55   Like there's all that stuff is there.

00:06:57   So it is a little bit like, yeah,

00:07:00   like she's in a community that's been plopped down,

00:07:02   not quite out in the middle of nowhere,

00:07:03   but real close to the middle of nowhere.

00:07:07   So that's contact.

00:07:08   We've spent some time recently on this show,

00:07:11   on my other shows too, talking about live activities

00:07:13   and where they're popping up and where they're not.

00:07:16   And I saw on one of my favorite web blogs, sixcolors.com,

00:07:20   that the MLB app has been updated

00:07:22   with live activity support,

00:07:23   which I'm sure you're pretty jazzed about.

00:07:26   - For the baseball, yeah.

00:07:27   It's spring training right now,

00:07:28   so the data is not consistent yet.

00:07:30   I assume that when they get to the actual stadiums

00:07:34   and the season begins, the data will be more consistent.

00:07:36   So right now it's a little inconsistent,

00:07:37   but the way it's supposed to work,

00:07:38   and it works in some cases,

00:07:40   is you, in the MLB app,

00:07:42   you set your favorite team or teams.

00:07:44   And then those teams,

00:07:46   when you're in the game view on the iPhone,

00:07:49   there is a highlight for,

00:07:52   like under the game that says, "Track this game,"

00:07:54   and a little blue track button that you can tap.

00:07:56   And at which point, when you close the app,

00:08:00   you get a live activity that has spawned,

00:08:02   that is the information about the game.

00:08:04   And people have said,

00:08:06   Some people have said that it's delayed a little bit.

00:08:08   It's not really current.

00:08:10   Other people have said that that's not an issue.

00:08:11   I imagine again, that this is all actually

00:08:14   Major League Baseball working this stuff out too,

00:08:17   because again, they're not playing real games now.

00:08:19   They're playing practice games

00:08:21   as they get ready for the season.

00:08:22   And so we'll see how it goes during the regular season,

00:08:25   but it's a cool idea.

00:08:26   Also, I can't find it in the iPad app,

00:08:28   which technically has live activities, right?

00:08:31   Like aren't there live activities

00:08:32   on the live screen in the iPad?

00:08:34   Or are there not?

00:08:35   or is it only there at all?

00:08:36   Okay, well then let's just file that.

00:08:38   Like, why are they not there at all?

00:08:40   - Well, this is that thing, right?

00:08:41   You do widgets one year. - I use lock screen

00:08:42   on my iPad all the time.

00:08:43   - Then you do widgets on iPad the next year, right?

00:08:46   You do app library and then the next year.

00:08:47   So live activities, this one.

00:08:49   - I don't like it.

00:08:50   I know there's no Dynamic Island,

00:08:51   but there's still a lock screen

00:08:52   that I'm on all the time for my iPad.

00:08:54   - Well, because there are live activities

00:08:56   on phones without Dynamic Islands.

00:08:59   - Right, but not on the iPad.

00:09:01   - There's no reason why they just didn't do it.

00:09:03   And so it will be the big thing of iPadOS 17 or whatever.

00:09:08   - So, okay.

00:09:10   So I'll then say, this is exciting, but again,

00:09:13   I just said earlier, I don't use my iPhone that much.

00:09:17   So when I'm out and about, but then again, live activity,

00:09:19   when I'm out and about, and this live activity

00:09:23   is on my phone for like the Giants game,

00:09:25   that'll be great, right?

00:09:27   - Here's a question.

00:09:28   - But it's not the primary use case

00:09:29   that I would have for it, unfortunately,

00:09:31   'cause that would be on the iPad.

00:09:32   What about live activities for Apple Watch?

00:09:35   Why doesn't that exist?

00:09:36   - I know, well, I would use it,

00:09:38   I would love to have it on my Apple Watch too.

00:09:40   That there was a way, I don't know how that would work.

00:09:42   - Like just sitting there on the notification thing,

00:09:44   you pull down, get your live activity?

00:09:46   - Well, I mean, you could argue that,

00:09:47   I mean, there's like an MLB complication you could use,

00:09:50   but I think there's some challenges there

00:09:51   with data refresh, right?

00:09:52   Like that's my feeling about a lot of complications

00:09:55   on the Apple Watch.

00:09:56   - I mean, and visual,

00:09:57   like the amount of visuals you can have, right?

00:09:59   - Sure. - Like,

00:10:00   'cause what I'm thinking is you could fit in

00:10:02   basically everything that's in the dynamic island into a notification on the Apple watch.

00:10:06   So it just lives in the notification drawer or whatever.

00:10:08   Yeah, just swipe down and see what's going on.

00:10:11   Yeah.

00:10:12   Interesting.

00:10:13   I mean, there's a real UI challenge there, but I would love to see them find a way to

00:10:17   use this infrastructure of live activities and which feels, all this stuff feels like

00:10:22   it's sort of maybe even started with things for Apple watch.

00:10:25   And then they're like, Oh, we could do this on the phone.

00:10:27   It's like, okay, but there's also the Apple watch.

00:10:29   might be a good place to put that sort of thing too. Like, I don't know. It's an interesting

00:10:35   challenge, but I'd like to see more of it. Anyway, the MLB thing, I'll see how it works

00:10:39   in practice in terms of like how up-to-date is it and all of that, but I love the idea.

00:10:43   And I know that, you know, some of our friends who have like Stephen Hackett follows the

00:10:48   NBA and so he's been using an app to do NBA tracking for the Memphis Grizzlies and like,

00:10:54   It's a cool idea. I actually got my first carrot weather. I can give you a live activity

00:11:01   for the rain.

00:11:02   Oh, I got these all the time, obviously. I appreciate it.

00:11:06   London. But I got it today because we have lots of rain here right now. That was kind

00:11:12   of fun where it's like, "Yeah, I'll just put up a little live activity that tells you how

00:11:14   long the rain is going to last. In 18 minutes, it'll stop raining, theoretically." That's

00:11:22   - It's fun too, I mean, I really do like live activities.

00:11:27   You know, the thing I use the iPhone the most,

00:11:29   honestly is podcasts, 'cause I just do all my overcast,

00:11:32   like when I'm, even when I'm like taking a shower,

00:11:33   that's like with the iPhone.

00:11:34   So I, it's not like I'm not using my iPhone, I should say.

00:11:37   I do use my iPhone in very specific circumstances,

00:11:40   but if I'm just sitting in the house,

00:11:41   it's usually not with me, not always.

00:11:44   It's with me right now, actually.

00:11:45   So I do, I guess it does end up on my desk a lot,

00:11:48   where I'm looking down at the always on display.

00:11:51   So, you know, somewhat, but again,

00:11:53   if somebody sent me a text,

00:11:54   I would use my Mac 'cause keyboard.

00:11:57   - The Oscars were last night, the Academy Awards.

00:12:00   And Apple TV+ won the animated movie short.

00:12:05   So let me re-say that.

00:12:07   The Apple TV+ animated movie,

00:12:10   The Boy, The Mole, The Fox and The Horse,

00:12:12   won the Oscar for best animated short.

00:12:14   That is a clearer way of getting that across.

00:12:16   So this is the movie that you may remember

00:12:19   that Johnny Ive was an executive producer on.

00:12:22   They just picked up,

00:12:23   Apple's now picked up their second Academy Award.

00:12:26   I don't think they were up for anything else of note.

00:12:30   - There was a Best Supporting Actor nomination

00:12:33   for an Apple TV+ movie that that person didn't win.

00:12:37   But congratulations to the boy, the director, the mole,

00:12:41   the writer, the fox, the producer, the horse,

00:12:44   and Johnny Ives, yeah.

00:12:46   - Woody Arson was also.

00:12:48   This one just had a ton of people attached to it,

00:12:50   like Bad Robot was producing it,

00:12:52   and Woody Harrelson was executive producing it,

00:12:55   and Johnny Iov too.

00:12:56   - That's a, you know, I don't know.

00:12:58   There's a lot of people involved in the,

00:13:00   that category often has like,

00:13:01   it's like one person's labor of love,

00:13:04   and then in comes this thing that feels like

00:13:05   it was a very expensive star studded production,

00:13:10   and it wins the Academy Award, and I'm like,

00:13:12   on one level it's like, great,

00:13:13   and on another level I think to myself,

00:13:16   Come on, let the guy in his basement

00:13:19   who's been making a movie for five years

00:13:21   win his Academy Award.

00:13:22   But no, it was a big budget.

00:13:25   And it's that Johnny I.F. magic, that's what it was.

00:13:28   Probably, yeah.

00:13:29   - It was originally a longer full featured movie

00:13:33   but Johnny just took scenes out until it was a short.

00:13:37   - That's right, it's minimalism, yeah.

00:13:39   That's what he goes for.

00:13:40   That's right, we took it into the white room

00:13:42   and we edited it down.

00:13:44   It used to be the boy, the mole, the fox, the dog,

00:13:48   the chicken, the farmer, the ox.

00:13:53   - The horse and the hound and the fox.

00:13:55   - The horse and the horse's best friend

00:13:58   who is also a horse.

00:13:59   And Johnny's like, "There's too many things.

00:14:01   Too many things.

00:14:02   Can we cut it back?"

00:14:04   Yeah.

00:14:04   Good move.

00:14:05   - And they originally set it at sea,

00:14:06   but he didn't want there to be any ports in the movie, so.

00:14:10   - Oh, hey, zing.

00:14:12   - And also, I wonder how he'll, you know,

00:14:17   if he gets his hands on that Oscar,

00:14:18   nobody let him get his hands on the Oscar,

00:14:20   'cause he's gonna be like, you know,

00:14:21   can we make this minimal and how about all white?

00:14:25   - What's the deal with Johnny Art?

00:14:27   Anyway, so the Apple Vision Accessibility Report Card

00:14:32   has been released, I saw you also linked to the six colors.

00:14:35   This was kind of an adaptation and progression

00:14:39   of the six colors report card,

00:14:41   into a very specific area of Apple-related technology.

00:14:44   I will read from Applevis.com.

00:14:47   "We are thrilled to unveil our inaugural

00:14:49   "Apple Vision Accessibility Report Card,

00:14:51   "which provides valuable insights into the experiences

00:14:54   "and opinions of visually impaired community members

00:14:56   "who rely on voiceover braille support

00:14:58   "or the low vision features on Apple devices."

00:15:01   It is a great idea, right?

00:15:02   Like, take an area that, you know,

00:15:05   if you are knowledgeable about

00:15:08   and rate it in the same way that the Six Colors report card does too. I think it's very smart.

00:15:13   I love it. Yeah, yeah. I love that they're taking... I think they asked... Every now and

00:15:18   then I get people are like, you know, "Could I do a report card?" And I'm like, "Yeah."

00:15:21   Like, there is nothing about that format that is owned by anybody. So be my guest to do that.

00:15:28   Well, it's like, as you mentioned, it wasn't even your idea in the first place, right? So like,

00:15:31   this is a community affair. No, it was Koi-Vin. Koi-Vin suggested it to me. He said, "Somebody

00:15:36   somebody should do this." And I said, "Okay, I'll do it." That my first year. And now I

00:15:40   do the Enterprise Report Card 2, which will actually be coming out in a few weeks, where

00:15:45   I ask IT professionals in the Apple space how they are feeling about Apple's IT efforts.

00:15:51   And so that's another spinoff of the premise. So I'm glad that Applevis.com did this. It's

00:15:57   a very cool idea.

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00:18:25   and Relay FM.

00:18:26   Saddle up Jason Snow, it's room around uptime.

00:18:30   Yee-haw.

00:18:32   - So we're going back to the well of MacBook Air,

00:18:36   which I feel like there's so,

00:18:37   there is so much smoke around these MacBook Airs right now.

00:18:41   - That's right, but is there fire?

00:18:42   That's the question, is there fire?

00:18:44   - We'll find out.

00:18:45   9to5Mac has published a report of their own sources

00:18:50   that say that the upcoming 13 and 15 inch MacBook Airs

00:18:54   will be both announced together

00:18:57   and will feature an M3 chip.

00:18:59   So we were questioning about whether they would,

00:19:02   whether they'd maybe release one and then the other later,

00:19:04   you know, like M2 in the 15, M3 in the 13,

00:19:07   but lay it down the line.

00:19:09   They're saying that they will both be announced

00:19:11   at the same time and will feature M3 chips.

00:19:14   Nine to five also say that the M3 chip,

00:19:17   the CPU will have eight cores,

00:19:19   the same as the M1 and the M2.

00:19:21   But I guess what we're expecting is a increase,

00:19:25   potentially a significant increase, right,

00:19:27   in the actual speed of each core

00:19:31   because of the jump to three nanometer.

00:19:33   We'll see, I mean, who knows?

00:19:34   - And power efficiency too, those are the things

00:19:36   that work out like that. - There you go, yep.

00:19:38   The current 13-inch MacBook Pro will also apparently

00:19:41   be getting an M3 upgrade.

00:19:44   I don't know why I hadn't thought about this,

00:19:47   but of course it's not gonna go away.

00:19:49   Of course.

00:19:51   Apparently they said there was an internal discussion,

00:19:54   which ended up not progressing,

00:19:56   about just renaming this to MacBook.

00:19:59   I'm happy they're not doing that

00:20:00   because if they ever do a MacBook again,

00:20:03   I want it to be an actual product that they've created,

00:20:06   not just like a, this is an existing product

00:20:09   and we've just renamed it.

00:20:11   - Sad, strange product that also the MacBook Pro

00:20:14   is like literally, and I don't know this for a fact,

00:20:18   but all evidence suggests this product exists

00:20:20   specifically so they have something

00:20:22   that corporate buyers can buy and fulfill their policy

00:20:26   of only buying professional systems

00:20:29   by having this be a MacBook Pro,

00:20:30   even though it doesn't make sense

00:20:32   for any regular people to buy this thing.

00:20:35   - So in 9to5's reporting,

00:20:37   the one thing that they weren't sure of

00:20:39   is when exactly these products will launch.

00:20:41   Like they were trying to kind of pinpoint

00:20:44   potentially June, right, WWDC.

00:20:47   But Ross Young is again saying that he believes

00:20:50   that the 15 inch is expected to be launching in April.

00:20:53   Now, the reason he would say that

00:20:56   and the reason I can understand

00:20:58   why he is targeting that specific machine

00:21:02   is that's the change he can see in the product,

00:21:05   in the like the factory lines.

00:21:07   - The supply chain.

00:21:08   - Supply chain, that's the phrase I was looking for.

00:21:10   Because the 13 inch is just gonna keep looking

00:21:13   like the 13 inch if you're a display analyst, right?

00:21:15   Like there's no new panel, but the 15 inch panel's new.

00:21:19   So if he is aware, he seems to be aware of the fact

00:21:21   that it is in a specific part of the process,

00:21:24   which would indicate to him,

00:21:26   April is going to be the launch for this machine.

00:21:30   - So these reports are kind of at odds.

00:21:35   - Yes. - It's fascinating to me.

00:21:38   I still don't know quite what to think.

00:21:39   Ross Young being confident

00:21:41   that the 15-inch is launching in April, I guess,

00:21:44   and 9to5Mac being confident

00:21:45   that they're gonna launch together with an M3 chip.

00:21:49   I guess the question is, is the M3 chip gonna premiere

00:21:52   in April, like less than a year since they premiered

00:21:57   the M2 chip?

00:21:59   That is a scenario, I guess.

00:22:01   It's one that I had sort of discounted.

00:22:02   I've been assuming all along that they would debut

00:22:05   the M3 chip in June with the MacBook Air.

00:22:10   But what if, you know, that was a delayed product last year?

00:22:14   What if they're already at the point where they're ready

00:22:17   to move on to the M3.

00:22:19   And Ross Young doesn't have any visibility into the 13 inch

00:22:23   because that's the same panel as you said.

00:22:25   And so therefore he's not gonna be able

00:22:26   to detect a change there.

00:22:28   He can just see that the 15 inch panel is there.

00:22:30   The 9to5 Mac thinking it will be later is a tougher one.

00:22:35   I guess what that would suggest is maybe

00:22:37   that what Ross Young is seeing is a supply chain

00:22:40   that's cranking away on these things,

00:22:41   but that Apple isn't going to put them up for sale right away

00:22:44   and they're gonna hold them for a little while.

00:22:46   - Yeah, just to be clear,

00:22:48   Nine to Five don't have any sourcing on when.

00:22:52   They're just saying that that's when they expect

00:22:55   is to be the VC.

00:22:56   - Right, and I can understand it from, right,

00:22:59   like everything we've said about like,

00:23:01   but last year, so isn't it too soon and all of that.

00:23:04   What's in Ross Young's favor here is that he's,

00:23:07   he is looking at Apple and saying,

00:23:10   Apple doesn't produce computers in volume

00:23:16   and then just sit on them for months, right?

00:23:20   I mean, they could, they could produce them

00:23:22   and put them on a slow boat and save some money

00:23:26   and then have them ready to go.

00:23:28   But it would mean that the M3 is producing now, right?

00:23:32   It would mean, which there are,

00:23:33   I've seen reports that suggest that that's not the case,

00:23:37   that that process is not necessarily generating chips yet.

00:23:41   So the logic here in some ways is to say,

00:23:46   what Ross Young is really saying

00:23:49   is there's gonna be an M2 15 inch,

00:23:50   and then later there'll be an M3 13 inch,

00:23:53   but that's not what nine to five Mac sources say,

00:23:56   which is they're gonna launch together.

00:23:58   So it is, they're a little diametrically opposed here.

00:24:01   I suppose the simplest solution is,

00:24:04   yeah, turns out the M3 is ready.

00:24:06   And then in April, they're just gonna say,

00:24:07   new MacBook Airs, and also that MacBook Pro

00:24:10   that we don't talk about, and their M3s, yay, moving on.

00:24:15   And now we've got two versions of the MacBook Air.

00:24:17   Like that could be it.

00:24:18   It would certainly, if they did that,

00:24:20   it would certainly eliminate the weirdness of having,

00:24:24   you know, a 15 inch that is an M2

00:24:27   that's trailing the 13 inch that's an M3 by months,

00:24:31   by a few months, and therefore is, you know,

00:24:34   lagging behind and that would potentially suppress.

00:24:37   I'm not sure that many people would really care,

00:24:40   but it would be, you know, potential suppression of sales

00:24:45   because it's the old chip and not the new chip.

00:24:47   So it's mysterious, right?

00:24:49   Like, I wonder what the sources are here

00:24:52   and why this is happening this way.

00:24:54   - If I was gonna like put my cards on the table

00:24:59   with this one, I do not think this is a product

00:25:02   we see at WWDC.

00:25:03   I think they should not have anything at WWDC

00:25:07   that isn't 100% needed.

00:25:09   because it should be, by our current expectations,

00:25:14   an absolutely packed keynote.

00:25:15   And so spending time talking about a new MacBook Air

00:25:18   doesn't really make any sense.

00:25:19   - Yeah, if you do have a Mac there, have it be the Mac Pro.

00:25:22   But I agree, the MacBook Air is not a good fit.

00:25:24   And the only reason they did it last time

00:25:26   is because it was delayed quite a while.

00:25:29   So I mean, that is definitely a good working theory,

00:25:32   which is that they're actually back on track

00:25:35   with the M3 and the MacBook Air.

00:25:37   And that means that it's gonna be less than a year

00:25:40   because that one was delayed so much internally

00:25:44   that they announced it months after they wanted to,

00:25:47   according to reports,

00:25:48   that maybe they're back on track with this.

00:25:50   And once you've got the M3 ready to go,

00:25:52   there's no point in sticking around,

00:25:56   especially since you've got that MacBook Air design

00:25:58   ready to go, the existing one,

00:26:00   which none of us are expecting anything

00:26:01   other than the M2 MacBook Air to become an M3 MacBook Air.

00:26:04   And maybe they'll tweak the colors

00:26:06   or maybe they won't at all,

00:26:08   but it'll be basically the same

00:26:10   'cause they just redesigned it.

00:26:11   So that design's gonna stick around for a while.

00:26:14   And this is probably the basis of the 15 inch design too.

00:26:17   So, I mean, that'd be great.

00:26:18   I would love to see MacBook,

00:26:19   and bring on like M3 MacBook Air next month.

00:26:21   I'd love to see that if they can make that work.

00:26:25   But it is a little funny that, you know,

00:26:28   these sources are, again, they seem to be colliding,

00:26:33   but there are scenarios in which they actually do

00:26:36   make sense together.

00:26:37   They're just surprising, I think,

00:26:38   scenarios that we weren't necessarily expecting.

00:26:41   - This is a short one.

00:26:42   Ming-Chi Kuo is reporting that Apple is set

00:26:44   to launch a redesigned HomePod

00:26:46   with a seven inch display in the first half of 2024.

00:26:49   - Yeah.

00:26:50   - Please.

00:26:51   - Yeah, I'm excited about this.

00:26:53   This is the idea that,

00:26:55   and I think Mark Gurman has reported about,

00:26:57   like that they are working on a lot of different,

00:26:59   this is like Apple's new home device strategy

00:27:03   that they're actually working on

00:27:04   and that this would be the first thing we'd see.

00:27:06   And I know I detailed, I think,

00:27:08   an upgrade plus a few weeks ago,

00:27:10   how I got rid of my Echo Show in my kitchen

00:27:14   and replaced it with a Google Nest Hub.

00:27:17   And I wrote about that last week on Six Colors.

00:27:20   It was great.

00:27:21   It was a success.

00:27:23   I was frustrated by all the junk

00:27:28   that had been collecting on the Amazon Echo

00:27:32   that Amazon kept shoving things onto the home screen

00:27:34   and kept having the voice assistant interrupt me.

00:27:39   Basically, anytime I would ask it anything,

00:27:41   it would tack on to their answer an ad

00:27:44   for some other thing.

00:27:45   - You have a notification.

00:27:47   Would you like to read?

00:27:48   - Oh yeah, yeah.

00:27:49   We are delivering or have delivered a package to you.

00:27:52   Or by the way, did you know I do this thing?

00:27:54   And it's like, I got very frustrated.

00:27:56   I've been very happy with the Google device,

00:27:59   which while not perfect,

00:28:00   does the limited things that I want to do

00:28:03   without getting in my way.

00:28:04   But the truth is that in that moment of despair

00:28:07   where I finally said, let's just get the Google thing

00:28:10   and see if it's better,

00:28:11   I definitely had that feeling of like,

00:28:12   I wish Apple would do something here.

00:28:16   Now we'll see what they implement, right?

00:28:18   Like there's a lot of mysteries about

00:28:20   what does a HomePod with the display look like?

00:28:22   Like, is that, is it, are they widgets?

00:28:25   Is it tvOSy?

00:28:26   Is it iPadOSy?

00:28:27   Like, what is it?

00:28:29   I think there's some real questions there,

00:28:31   a little mystery about how they decide to do that,

00:28:33   but I'm hopeful that it will be a better fit

00:28:38   than what I've currently got.

00:28:41   And I'm really happy that Apple seems to actually care

00:28:44   about that category of the smart speaker with display,

00:28:48   which they have thus far not been interested in.

00:28:52   - Came downstairs this morning

00:28:53   and my Echo Show was showing to me,

00:28:56   Why don't you ask, what is the dog breed of the day?

00:29:00   The problem is for me, I find that infuriating.

00:29:05   There is at least one person in my home that loves that

00:29:08   and always asks, what's the dog breed of the day?

00:29:10   Loves it.

00:29:11   And so this is the issue that I'm in.

00:29:13   I don't want any of that anymore, but we're at odds here.

00:29:17   So there's nothing I can do about it.

00:29:20   Someone finds it adorable.

00:29:22   I find it maddening, but here we are.

00:29:26   Same, same.

00:29:28   I just, all that, like all the junk

00:29:31   that it puts on the screen that I don't,

00:29:33   like you can't, you can't avoid it.

00:29:35   Even when it's putting good information on the screen,

00:29:37   usually at the bottom, it's got like, say this phrase.

00:29:41   And it's just like, it's so aggressive with its marketing

00:29:43   and I just got tired of it.

00:29:45   But the thing that put me over the top

00:29:46   was the by the way interruptions, right?

00:29:48   Where it's like, I just, I just want,

00:29:50   or would you like me to enable that?

00:29:52   I've heard that several times where Lauren's in the kitchen

00:29:56   and she's asked for a timer or something like that

00:29:58   'cause she's cooking dinner and it says,

00:29:59   "By the way, I can do this thing.

00:30:00   "Would you like me to do that?"

00:30:02   And she's like, "No!"

00:30:04   Right, it's like, "No, get out of my way.

00:30:06   "That's not what I'm doing right now."

00:30:08   - It was my biggest issue is that if I'm cooking, right,

00:30:10   that's when I'm usually set,

00:30:11   you know, that's when I'm using it the most,

00:30:13   I'm setting timers and stuff.

00:30:14   I'm cooking, I have my AirPods Pro in on noise canceling mode

00:30:19   'cause I don't need to hear the cooking.

00:30:21   I wanna listen to a podcast or whatever.

00:30:24   So I say like, "Hey, set a 10 minute timer."

00:30:26   and I hear, "What is happening?"

00:30:39   Here's a fun Rorschach test for you.

00:30:43   The Financial Times is reporting that Tim Cook sided with Jeff Williams on pushing Apple

00:30:48   to launch their Mixed Reality headset this year.

00:30:51   This is against the wishes of the design team managing the project, who have concerns that

00:30:56   the product is not yet ready for launch.

00:30:59   They have said that they would prefer to wait until a lightweight AR product is possible.

00:31:05   So like 2027?

00:31:07   Yeah.

00:31:08   Quote from MacRumors via Financial Times, "The company's industrial design team cautioned

00:31:13   that devices in the category were not yet ready for launch and wanted to delay until

00:31:18   a lightweight AR glasses product had matured several years later. Williams' team pushed

00:31:24   for the mixed reality product even though it would be more limited than what they could

00:31:28   achieve in the future. Speaking to the Financial Times, former Apple engineers who worked on

00:31:34   the device described the huge pressure to ship.

00:31:37   - So yes, you're right, this is a real Rorschach test.

00:31:41   And, you know, maybe depends on what you thought

00:31:44   of that book that I didn't like about,

00:31:48   oh, the design team, the heroes of the design team.

00:31:50   I definitely raised an eyebrow at the idea that,

00:31:54   like, 'cause this story is not design team caution,

00:31:56   the product was not ready to go

00:31:58   and they needed to make some more tweaks

00:31:59   and they should push it back a year.

00:32:01   It's the design team rejects your premise

00:32:05   of a mixed reality headset and says,

00:32:08   "Let's not ship anything until we've created

00:32:11   the perfect form, which is lightweight AR glasses,

00:32:14   which will take another five years or longer."

00:32:18   That seems to be the story here, right?

00:32:21   And it is absolutely within the realm of reason

00:32:26   for Tim Cook and Jeff Williams to be like,

00:32:31   "Oh no, we're gonna ship the mixed reality headset first.

00:32:34   We'll get there, but we need to ship this.

00:32:37   We need to ship a real product here, even though it's not,

00:32:40   'cause I read this as almost like,

00:32:41   this is not the idealized product that you dream of,

00:32:45   but we need to ship something.

00:32:46   I mean, I don't wanna get into, you know,

00:32:48   real artists ship Steve Jobs-isms here,

00:32:50   but at some point somebody has to decide,

00:32:53   is this a product or not?

00:32:54   And this sounds, this one little passage is so weird

00:32:59   because it's basically the industrial design team

00:33:02   didn't think they should do a VR product.

00:33:04   just said, "We don't think you should do it.

00:33:07   We think you should wait for the ideal product,

00:33:09   which isn't gonna happen for another five years."

00:33:12   And that is so weird.

00:33:14   And I ranted about this when I ranted about that book,

00:33:19   Trip Mickel's book, a little bit,

00:33:21   that I appreciate the veneration

00:33:23   that a lot of people feel for Apple's design team

00:33:26   and for Apple's design-centric culture.

00:33:29   I've been following it forever, right?

00:33:32   Like, I get it.

00:33:33   But, you know, they also can get way too precious.

00:33:38   And you gotta be able to say, you gotta say,

00:33:42   "No, they don't run the company."

00:33:44   And they shouldn't run the company.

00:33:45   And I actually would say, this is the perfect example

00:33:49   of why whatever the design team says is right,

00:33:53   is the wrong philosophy for any functional company.

00:33:58   Because the design team here seems to have,

00:34:01   is living in an idealized space where it's like,

00:34:06   we don't need to ship a product for years.

00:34:09   We've been working on it.

00:34:10   We've been spending a lot of money.

00:34:11   We've got something that is a little bit clunky,

00:34:13   like first-generation products often are.

00:34:16   Why don't we just not ship it

00:34:18   and continue to sit here in our space iterating

00:34:22   and having you guys continue to work on new technology

00:34:25   and spend more money and then call us in four or five years

00:34:29   when you've got something that meets our standards.

00:34:32   It's totally ridiculous.

00:34:34   So if this report is correct, it's like,

00:34:37   and the way I've seen it passed around, it's like,

00:34:39   "Oh no, they overrode the designers.

00:34:42   What a disaster."

00:34:42   And it's like, how could you, it would be,

00:34:44   I mean, it would be malpractice

00:34:46   if you didn't override the designers

00:34:47   when they just try to tell you,

00:34:48   "Yeah, that product you've been working on,

00:34:50   we don't like it.

00:34:51   You should just not ship it

00:34:52   and wait years until you invent something better."

00:34:56   It's unbelievable.

00:34:57   - Yeah, we are in complete agreement on this one.

00:34:59   Like, I think this is the right move.

00:35:01   We haven't seen the product, right?

00:35:02   But,

00:35:03   if the, you know, it's all in the marketing, right?

00:35:06   But you've got to do something at some point.

00:35:08   You can't just keep developing a product forever.

00:35:11   - You're never gonna get to the great product

00:35:13   if you never ship a product, right?

00:35:16   Please show me, please show me the product

00:35:19   that benefited from being delayed five years

00:35:22   and then when it came out, it was perfect.

00:35:24   Like, that's not how it works.

00:35:26   You've gotta ship and you've gotta get it out there.

00:35:29   Like they need to get it out there

00:35:30   so that the software can be picked apart, right?

00:35:33   Like, and that first, the first version of this thing,

00:35:36   it's probably gonna have buggy software.

00:35:37   It's gonna have lots of weird limitations.

00:35:38   And you know what?

00:35:39   That's part of the process.

00:35:40   Part of the process is saying, this doesn't work right.

00:35:42   And they're like, oh wow, we didn't think of that.

00:35:44   And then fixing it.

00:35:45   And people really hate this thing about the product.

00:35:47   Oh, we learned a lesson there.

00:35:49   We'll make it better.

00:35:50   But you gotta get it out there.

00:35:51   This is not the same thing as designers saying

00:35:54   there are fundamental flaws in the headset,

00:35:57   in the VR mixed reality headset that need to be addressed.

00:36:01   And I'll point out that it has been delayed a while.

00:36:04   It's perhaps those things also went on,

00:36:07   but it's one thing to say,

00:36:09   we need to fix things before this product ships.

00:36:11   And another thing to say, don't ship this product,

00:36:14   wait for it to achieve its final form

00:36:17   because the final form doesn't get achieved

00:36:20   by not shipping a product.

00:36:21   It just doesn't.

00:36:23   Look, there is obviously the asterisk of it could be atrocious,

00:36:26   but I think we're just assuming that's not the case, right?

00:36:29   Like it might, it probably will be,

00:36:31   I expect good at a bunch of things,

00:36:33   probably not great at any of those things,

00:36:35   but that's a version one.

00:36:38   Like really, this is a, this honestly feels like

00:36:41   we have everything that we know about it currently,

00:36:44   that this is the biggest kind of risk product

00:36:49   that I can remember Apple taking in the sense of like,

00:36:52   is super expensive, they're going super high end

00:36:54   because they just feel that they gotta get started.

00:36:57   - Yes.

00:36:58   - And so I agree with this idea of like at a certain point,

00:37:01   you gotta draw a line in the sand and be like,

00:37:03   - Gotta ship it. - As you say,

00:37:04   you need to ship it and see how people react

00:37:06   and then move on from there, which I would argue

00:37:09   is probably what happened with the Apple Watch, right?

00:37:12   - Yes. - Because they shipped

00:37:14   a product that is, aside from industrial design,

00:37:20   completely different in idea and scope now to then.

00:37:23   - Mm-hmm, yeah, yeah.

00:37:25   - And so I figured they'd go to stock.

00:37:26   - And they had to get it out there.

00:37:27   They had to get it out there, they had to iterate.

00:37:29   They had to get the feedback about,

00:37:32   they shipped that where the apps are running on the phone

00:37:34   and all that, and they knew that that was not gonna be

00:37:37   there in the long run, and they could've waited

00:37:40   another year, I suppose, but again,

00:37:41   you're just waiting to get started.

00:37:43   You should probably just get started.

00:37:46   And I'm not advocating for shipping a product that is,

00:37:48   There is a bar, right?

00:37:50   There is a bar to clear of like, is this a viable product?

00:37:52   Is this a product that is worth getting out the door

00:37:55   and having the public see it?

00:37:57   But that's not the, the bar can't be set at perfect

00:38:00   or at a different product.

00:38:01   - 'Cause this doesn't even seem like an issue

00:38:05   with Apple's product specifically,

00:38:07   but in the idea that a mixed reality headset

00:38:11   is inherently the wrong direction,

00:38:12   which I don't agree with fundamentally.

00:38:15   These headsets can be really great when done well,

00:38:19   but it seems like that there are at least some people inside

00:38:21   and again, as we always say, you hear about this stuff,

00:38:24   you've heard about it from the people

00:38:25   that are the most angry, right?

00:38:27   - Consider the source. - Consider the source.

00:38:29   - Financial Times specifically says,

00:38:31   former Apple engineers who worked on the device.

00:38:34   So these are people who left Apple and are like,

00:38:37   so first off, how recent is their knowledge of this?

00:38:40   But they're like, oh, they wanted to do this,

00:38:42   but like, it feels very much

00:38:45   Like what they're saying is,

00:38:46   I never liked the idea of mixed reality.

00:38:48   I'm in love with the dream of those lightweight glasses

00:38:52   that again, lightweight AR glasses.

00:38:54   I just wanna be clear here.

00:38:57   The technology to make them doesn't exist, right?

00:39:01   Like the reason Apple isn't making them today

00:39:03   instead of this headset that's gonna come out

00:39:05   in the next few months,

00:39:06   which is mind boggling when you think about that,

00:39:09   that we're very close to that.

00:39:10   The reason is it doesn't exist yet.

00:39:12   Like it needs to be invented.

00:39:15   It is not ready to do a lightweight pair of glasses

00:39:18   that actually do proper AR.

00:39:20   Like they can't do it.

00:39:21   And so you've got to, that's why I'm saying

00:39:25   you've got to ship and you've got to iterate

00:39:26   and you've got to build the next thing.

00:39:27   You can't just sort of wait around for the,

00:39:30   we're pretty sure this is the future,

00:39:31   but it hasn't been invented yet.

00:39:33   So we're going to wait around until we invent it

00:39:35   and then we'll ship it, is not a viable solution.

00:39:37   But it sounds like that's what's happening

00:39:39   by a bunch of former engineers who had worked on the device

00:39:42   and probably fought their battles

00:39:43   and maybe fought some battles about the existing headset

00:39:46   and are frustrated about it.

00:39:48   But the ideal headset, those glasses, those are perfect,

00:39:53   because they are just an ideal and don't really exist.

00:39:57   So yeah, consider the sources here.

00:40:00   This story doesn't suggest whether the product

00:40:03   that's gonna come out this year is good or bad.

00:40:07   It is being read that way,

00:40:10   but that's not how I read this at all.

00:40:12   I read this as being like designers didn't wanna ship it

00:40:16   because they prefer the elegance

00:40:18   of a product that doesn't exist.

00:40:21   - Yeah, and like something that Kate mentioned

00:40:23   in the live chat is like about what the expectations

00:40:27   and reality of the product is.

00:40:28   And it may have been that when this project

00:40:30   was first started, the idea was,

00:40:33   let's try and make some AR glasses.

00:40:35   But then along the way, realize, as you mentioned,

00:40:37   oh, it's not physically possible to do that right now.

00:40:39   - We can't do that.

00:40:40   Yeah, we can't do that.

00:40:41   you started in that place, maybe you had these grand ideas of what it would be, but you've

00:40:46   had to make a concession along the route. And I continue to maintain without ever seeing

00:40:52   this product, this is the right move to go down, because you've got to start somewhere

00:40:58   and it's best to just get it going and see what people say and see what people like,

00:41:02   see what people don't like. There is a 100% a world in which even when AR glasses exist,

00:41:09   I actually believe this is the case.

00:41:12   Even when AR glasses exist, there will still be a desire and use case for a mixed reality

00:41:17   product.

00:41:18   Because AR glasses will never be able to isolate you from an environment and that is still

00:41:23   an interesting thing to do for gaming and even for just immersion.

00:41:28   And so I can still imagine Apple continuing to make some version of a mixed reality headset

00:41:34   even once they've developed the technology for AR glasses.

00:41:38   - Yeah, yeah, well, I mean, you could maybe make AR glasses

00:41:41   that also have a VR mode, but at that point,

00:41:43   it's a little bit like you're spending a lot of money

00:41:46   to make very expensive things that are light

00:41:48   and pass through and then covering them up.

00:41:51   - You would need to like have these attachments, right?

00:41:53   Like it would be very- - Right, it's like flip down

00:41:56   VR mode or something, and so you might just continue

00:41:58   to have that separate product.

00:42:00   I will recommend to everybody on Connected,

00:42:04   was it last week? - Last week, yeah.

00:42:05   - Federico, so Mike and I have been using VR

00:42:09   for a while now.

00:42:10   Federico is sort of new to it.

00:42:12   And he's going through a phase of his life

00:42:16   where he's trying new things, which is great.

00:42:18   And he got the old time VR religion last week on connected.

00:42:23   Like to the point where he's like, I wanna work in VR.

00:42:28   I don't even need a display anymore.

00:42:29   I can just use a VR display on my Mac

00:42:32   and things like that, right?

00:42:33   Which is pretty wild.

00:42:35   But I think that there's some, there potentially is some truth to that.

00:42:38   And so I'll recommend that because I think his enthusiasm is fun, but also

00:42:43   because I think he details pretty well.

00:42:46   All the different possibilities for this and why it's exciting

00:42:50   that Apple's doing this.

00:42:51   And I think you can believe that this is an interesting category that is going to

00:42:56   push things in a lot of interesting ways and that Apple, because it's invested so

00:43:01   much time and money, Apple is trying to have the experience be the best one we've ever seen. You

00:43:09   can believe that and also believe that it will be very expensive and not do as much as it should,

00:43:15   and be frustrating in a bunch of areas. Because I think that in the end, that's kind of what you're

00:43:19   going for, right? You're kind of going for a first generation product that shows off how amazing

00:43:25   this technology can be while also recognizing the fact

00:43:30   that it is version one and that there's a lot of learning

00:43:33   to do before we get to the point where people feel better

00:43:38   about this and that it feels better as a product.

00:43:43   Both of those things can be true and I think

00:43:45   if you do it right, that's your best case scenario.

00:43:48   I think there's no scenario where Apple releases something

00:43:50   and everybody goes, "Oh, they figured it out, it's fine.

00:43:52   "This is what it would be like from now on."

00:43:54   I just don't think that'll happen, right?

00:43:55   It's a first version of the operating system

00:43:58   and the app platform and all of those things.

00:44:00   It's not gonna be done.

00:44:02   It's gonna be a start.

00:44:04   But if they can nail the other part,

00:44:06   which is everybody sees the potential,

00:44:08   that's what you build on.

00:44:10   - This episode of Upgrade is brought to you by Capital One.

00:44:15   At Capital One, technology makes direct deposits available

00:44:18   up to two days sooner,

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00:44:25   with Slingshot, the first solution from Capital One software.

00:44:29   Search technology at Capital One to learn more.

00:44:32   Our thanks to Capital One for their support of this show

00:44:35   and Relay FM.

00:44:36   Capital One, what's in your wallet?

00:44:38   So we're gonna talk about yellow iPhone now.

00:44:42   - Oh boy.

00:44:43   - Upgrading Adams suggested that this segment

00:44:46   should be called color grade.

00:44:48   - Uh huh.

00:44:49   - Which.

00:44:50   - It's clever.

00:44:51   - I love.

00:44:52   So that's what we'll call it, color grade.

00:44:54   - Okay.

00:44:56   - There's a yellow iPhone.

00:44:57   - It's true, boy is there.

00:45:00   I have it right here.

00:45:01   - A great job of making something not exciting,

00:45:06   like interesting by producing a live stream,

00:45:10   wearing yellow with lots of yellow things,

00:45:12   like bravo to you on that one.

00:45:14   - Yellow, I had that moment where I thought,

00:45:16   boy, if only I had a banana and a lemon,

00:45:18   we could really go to town.

00:45:20   I laughed and laughed and then I thought,

00:45:22   I should probably do that.

00:45:24   I didn't have a banana or a lemon,

00:45:25   but I did have a can of tennis balls and a play date

00:45:30   and a barrel of monkeys in yellow.

00:45:33   And so, you know, we made, and a yellow T-shirt,

00:45:36   a hypercritical T-shirt and a yellow cow hat.

00:45:38   And so we made it work.

00:45:39   We did a dumb, I did a dumb thing for 10 minutes where I,

00:45:43   and then people are like,

00:45:44   you should compare it to the play date.

00:45:44   And I had to go, I literally like got up and left

00:45:47   and ran to the back of the house and got the play date

00:45:49   and ran back and put it.

00:45:50   It's just a very dramatic moment.

00:45:52   Anyway, yes, there is a yellow iPhone.

00:45:54   It is a yellow iPhone.

00:45:58   Like, you know, I mean, we talked about it.

00:46:01   They obviously see value in refreshing,

00:46:05   in adding a color and refreshing their marketing,

00:46:08   which I think is a big part of it.

00:46:10   And getting another opportunity

00:46:12   to talk about the iPhone midstream

00:46:14   when it's been a while since we've talked about the iPhone.

00:46:17   I think that, and since they've marketed the iPhone

00:46:20   and engage with people about like something new

00:46:22   about the iPhone 'cause it sits there for six months.

00:46:25   So, and then they refresh it a little bit

00:46:27   and then that has to keep it going.

00:46:30   So it's the smallest of updates,

00:46:32   but like they keep doing it

00:46:34   as the spring update every year.

00:46:36   So obviously they find value in doing it this way.

00:46:39   And when I asked them sort of like the big question,

00:46:41   which is, well, you know, why not just do all the,

00:46:44   why do it now?

00:46:47   Why not do it earlier?

00:46:47   And their answer is something like,

00:46:49   well, you know, now our line is complete.

00:46:51   It's like a non-answer, right?

00:46:52   'Cause the answer is-- - Does that even mean

00:46:54   like there has been a long delay on the yellow one?

00:46:57   - It was missing a color and now the color is there.

00:47:00   And it's like, okay, but you could have done the,

00:47:01   just nevermind, okay, fine.

00:47:03   It's like, can we all know the reason?

00:47:04   - Jason, you don't understand the order of nature.

00:47:06   Yellow phones take longer to make.

00:47:08   Everyone knows this.

00:47:10   - Everybody knows it.

00:47:11   So anyway, here they are, and they got us talking about it.

00:47:15   Literally, there's nothing new about it

00:47:16   except that the iPhone is in a yellow color

00:47:21   and there are some new, it's their traditional thing, right?

00:47:24   There are some new case colors

00:47:25   and there are some new watch band colors

00:47:27   and that's where we are, yeah.

00:47:30   - I will say it again, just 'cause I have to say it,

00:47:31   like I'm legally contracted to say it,

00:47:33   why can't we get a pro phone in any of these colors?

00:47:38   I would love a yellow iPhone pro,

00:47:41   like just, but that color though, right?

00:47:43   Like that color.

00:47:44   I don't want like, mid-blue or like, yeah.

00:47:48   - Midnight lemon is what it would be, right?

00:47:49   It would be like gold, except not nice, right?

00:47:53   It would be just like--

00:47:54   - Muddy gold.

00:47:55   - Dark muddy gold, right?

00:47:57   And it's just, the truth, here's the truth.

00:48:00   The truth is, back when they did the design decisions

00:48:03   for these phones, so the, what, the 12?

00:48:06   They decided that the Pro phones would have the frosted

00:48:12   frosted glass back and that the camera bump would be matte or would be shiny.

00:48:20   And they decided that the inverse would be true for the low-end model. And as a result of that

00:48:26   decision, you can't really make bright colors with that glass the way it is. You could, I mean,

00:48:32   it would be okay, but I think the truth is that it wouldn't look very good. And therefore,

00:48:37   where they're kind of, I mean, that decision has meant

00:48:40   that the iPhone Pro has been really boring

00:48:43   and sedate the whole time.

00:48:44   And I think this whole generation,

00:48:46   the low-end model looks better, like the whole generation.

00:48:48   So I hope they address it when they redesign the iPhones,

00:48:52   because I hate it.

00:48:54   Again, when we talk about this, this color stuff,

00:48:58   we're not saying you shouldn't be able

00:49:00   to buy a sedate phone, right?

00:49:02   It's just like when we were talking about the iMacs,

00:49:03   like they make silver, right?

00:49:05   Like you can have your sedate, we say boring,

00:49:10   but like you can have like something that's neutral

00:49:13   that doesn't call attention to it

00:49:15   because for whatever reason you prefer that, that's fine.

00:49:18   But some of us would prefer a little color

00:49:21   and Apple is not willing to do that on pro devices

00:49:26   and I don't understand it.

00:49:28   - Yeah, I mean, you can buy just like a black regular iPhone

00:49:31   and a white one, right?

00:49:32   Like, so even though they have the colors

00:49:34   in the regular ones, you can still just buy standard, right?

00:49:39   And then you get red, a blue that I don't really like.

00:49:42   - That's the iPhone I have right here.

00:49:45   It's black, basically.

00:49:47   It's like the very dark gray back

00:49:49   with the black camera bump.

00:49:50   It's fine.

00:49:52   - But anyway, yellow iPhone.

00:49:54   - Yellow.

00:49:55   - Apple Music classical.

00:49:57   Let me give you a bit of history

00:50:00   those that are not deep in the classical law. In 2021, Apple bought a company called Primephonic

00:50:08   and this was their thing. I think they were a classic music streaming service. And with this,

00:50:13   when they announced it, promised a new Apple Music classical app by the end of the year 2022.

00:50:22   So it wasn't going to be an integration into Apple Music. It was going to be like a brand new

00:50:27   app by the end of 2022. Apple has now announced a pre-order in the app store for the Apple

00:50:37   Music classical app which will be launching on March 28th.

00:50:46   Some details about Apple Music classical, a lot of these came from a post on MacRumors

00:50:52   with information that I'm not sure how they got unless someone at Apple told them this

00:50:55   information which is good right because there was no press release so like information about

00:51:00   this application hard to get it is going to be available no extra cost to Apple music

00:51:05   subscribers it will support spatial audio with Dolby Atmos and high res lossless which

00:51:10   makes sense I think the high res lossless makes the most sense visually it looks like

00:51:15   Apple music but they're using the serif New York typeface rather than the San Francisco

00:51:20   Typeface, which I find very funny. It is going to benefit from complete and accurate metadata

00:51:26   to make sure you know exactly what and who you are playing. Learn while you listen. With

00:51:36   thousands of composer biographies, descriptions of key works, and more, the app will offer

00:51:41   over 5 million tracks, hundreds of curated playlists, and thousands of exclusive albums.

00:51:47   as commissioned unique artwork of famous artists for Apple Music Classical using color palettes

00:51:53   and artistic references from their relevant classical period. The uh-

00:51:56   [Music]

00:51:57   Yup, just like that one. That's- that- when you open the app it just plays that constantly.

00:52:05   No matter what happens.

00:52:06   The classical music fans out here are like, "Oh yeah, Bay tokens fifth and Ode to Joy,

00:52:11   the two most obvious classical music selections."

00:52:14   I'm just like, "Ugh, such a normie."

00:52:15   - Sorry, I'm riffing here, okay?

00:52:17   - Such a normie.

00:52:18   What I really like is that in the Apple Music classical

00:52:21   App Store page, they have one of these images of Beethoven,

00:52:24   where he does not look happy to be inside

00:52:27   of Apple Music classical.

00:52:28   - That's Beethoven.

00:52:29   - He looks real mad.

00:52:30   He's real mad about being locked inside of this application

00:52:33   and he doesn't want anything to do with it.

00:52:35   And he's not happy about it at all.

00:52:38   So this is really interesting.

00:52:40   - Cheer up, Beethoven.

00:52:43   - This app is interesting for me,

00:52:46   not because of what it is,

00:52:48   it's more like what it's not doing.

00:52:49   So like it will not have a Mac app,

00:52:51   it will not have an iPad app, it will have an Android app.

00:52:54   - Yeah, the iPad, so it shows up on my iPad.

00:52:58   So I keep thinking that what's gonna happen

00:52:59   is it's gonna launch and it's gonna have the Mac app

00:53:02   running on the iPad, which is, you know, not so great.

00:53:06   But it does show up.

00:53:07   - But they've set up, I've seen people saying

00:53:10   that they've had confirmation from Apple

00:53:11   that there is no iPad on Mac app.

00:53:14   It is iPhone only.

00:53:16   - That's fine, except it shows up in the app store

00:53:19   on my iPad, which leads me to believe

00:53:21   that I'll be able to run it on my iPad.

00:53:22   - Oh yeah, I mean, you run it like an iPhone.

00:53:24   - In iPhone compatibility mode.

00:53:25   But that's so sad, right?

00:53:26   - That's no good. - It's so sad.

00:53:27   Well, okay, so yeah, and no Mac app,

00:53:30   and that's not great.

00:53:33   The positive thing here, and for people who are wondering,

00:53:36   like people who love classical music,

00:53:39   they tend to listen to music in a very different way

00:53:41   than people who like popular music do, right?

00:53:44   Like the pop music, and that's what iTunes

00:53:47   and now Apple Music is based on,

00:53:48   is pop music, singles and things like that.

00:53:51   It's like you get an artist and a song

00:53:52   and it's kind of canonical and that's what it is.

00:53:54   Whereas my understanding is classical music,

00:53:57   you're not saying find me some Beethoven,

00:54:00   sweet, sweet Beethoven Fifth Symphony, let's do it.

00:54:03   You're like, I wanna listen to this performance

00:54:07   by this orchestra, right?

00:54:08   like lots of details about specific performances of works

00:54:12   'cause the works are performed a lot

00:54:14   and you wanna drill down and get like a particular one.

00:54:17   And pop music, there are cover versions and stuff like that

00:54:21   but basically it's like the version, give me that song.

00:54:26   And so you need to have something like

00:54:30   what Primephonic tried to do,

00:54:31   which is a good classical database

00:54:34   and also a different interface,

00:54:36   which is why it's a different app.

00:54:37   And I know I've heard from people who are like,

00:54:39   why not just make classical experience

00:54:42   inside the Apple Music app better?

00:54:43   And I think the answer is, yes, that would be great.

00:54:47   I suspect that Apple Music's architecture

00:54:51   would have required lots of changes to the Music app.

00:54:54   And they probably had a code base from Primephonic

00:54:56   and they're like, let's just leave music alone.

00:55:00   - I mean, I expect this is just like what happens with Beats.

00:55:03   I expect the team that is working on this is Primephonic,

00:55:06   like the old people that made Prime Formic have been sucked into Apple and they made this.

00:55:09   Like, that's what I expect has happened here.

00:55:12   So, but I just find that like,

00:55:16   not having an iPad app is just weird to me. It's just weird to me. It's like,

00:55:20   I feel like you just should, like they should just be taught, no, like,

00:55:24   because you can, if you, you know, if they have this whole thing of like,

00:55:28   a bunch of information, maybe it would look really nice to read composer biographies and descriptions of key works

00:55:34   on a bigger screen,

00:55:35   like on an iPad, like I just find it, it frustrates me

00:55:39   because it's like, it just looks like they don't care

00:55:42   about it, right?

00:55:43   And it's just like, well, I don't like that.

00:55:46   Like the Mac, fine, whatever, right?

00:55:48   Like they don't wanna make a Mac app, don't make a Mac app.

00:55:52   But like, you know, like whatever, right?

00:55:55   - Right, but you make an iPhone app

00:55:56   and you make it a catalyst app.

00:55:58   Again, that's probably all coming.

00:56:00   That's my guess.

00:56:01   My guess is that part of the product pathway here,

00:56:05   'cause remember, they missed their deadline already

00:56:07   and now they're shipping this thing, right?

00:56:08   Like the product pathway is probably,

00:56:11   but I don't know if we mentioned it,

00:56:13   Apple Music, if you're an Apple Music subscriber,

00:56:15   you get this, it's not an extra anything.

00:56:17   - Although weirdly, unless you're in China, Japan, Korea,

00:56:20   Russia, Taiwan, Turkey, Afghanistan, or Pakistan.

00:56:23   - Yeah, 'cause they're not licensed or whatever there.

00:56:25   So the product pathway probably is that there will be

00:56:28   an update that supports the iPad

00:56:30   and then they will probably have a catalyst version

00:56:32   beyond that that you'll be able to run on the Mac.

00:56:34   - I really hope so. - That's almost certainly

00:56:35   where it's going, but they clearly like couldn't get it done

00:56:39   in order to get it out by the end of March,

00:56:42   which is already three months after their self-imposed

00:56:45   deadline/promise about this.

00:56:48   So I think this is great.

00:56:49   I love, they're like classical music people.

00:56:53   Like we talk about how the App Store is distorted

00:56:56   by the fact that it's based on iTunes,

00:56:57   which means it's based on the single hit single model

00:57:00   and how that is affected so much about what the App Store is

00:57:04   because they took off their own shelf,

00:57:07   they took a music sale engine

00:57:11   and turned it into a software sale engine.

00:57:13   But it's also worth thinking about the fact

00:57:16   that there are kinds of music

00:57:18   that don't fit the pop single model either.

00:57:23   And classical is the best example of that.

00:57:26   I do wonder if there are other,

00:57:27   I was talking to Dan Morin about this.

00:57:29   I wonder if like soundtracks,

00:57:31   other stuff like that, that's not quite classical,

00:57:33   but it's not a great fit necessarily for Apple Music.

00:57:38   If there'll be some of that in here too, I don't know.

00:57:41   I just don't know, but I'm glad that they're doing it.

00:57:45   The technical details are perplexing, right?

00:57:47   This is an Apple, fundamentally,

00:57:48   Apple is launching a new service with an app

00:57:50   that only runs on the iPhone.

00:57:52   And that is wild, right?

00:57:54   Like if you're an iPad user,

00:57:55   if you listen to music on your iPad

00:57:57   and you're like, well, wait a second, what about me?

00:57:59   And the answer is, sorry, not yet, at least.

00:58:03   it will be available. This is an app that I mean, I'll download and look at it,

00:58:07   but like, I don't know what I'm doing in there. You know what I mean? Right.

00:58:09   I'll give it, I'll give it a whirl.

00:58:11   Hopefully there'll be some content in there for, for beginners, right? To say,

00:58:15   like, here's, here's a style to try or here's a thing to try. And it's like for,

00:58:19   for Jason, it'll be like, Beethoven will be there. And it'll be like, Jason,

00:58:23   don't tap on Beethoven.

00:58:24   The only music that you seem to be able to generate that's classical out of your

00:58:28   brain for some reason is Beethoven. Try,

00:58:32   Have you tried Mozart?

00:58:34   You could try that, give that a try too.

00:58:36   I tried to think of a third song

00:58:39   that I could sing now of classical.

00:58:42   And I realized, I was like, oh yeah, I know for Elise,

00:58:46   also Beethoven, also Beethoven, what is it with,

00:58:49   you know, I think I did have a,

00:58:52   when I was, when I took piano lessons as a kid,

00:58:54   they would give you little plastic statues.

00:58:55   They're like Funko pops,

00:58:57   except there were Funko classicals, essentially,

00:59:00   little statues of classical performers or composers and I know I had Chopin but I'm

00:59:07   pretty sure I had a Beethoven where he's scowling because all images of Beethoven he's scowling.

00:59:11   He is a very just a grumpy guy. The Mortal Beloved, interesting movie. Check it out. Gary

00:59:16   Oldman I think is Beethoven in that. Anyway that's also I have exhausted my classical music knowledge

00:59:23   now if you're interested oh yeah I honed namaste toven in German the Beethoven

00:59:28   dog movies you can get those two those are great and of course you can you can

00:59:35   do Amadeus you can watch Amadeus which is a we watch for the incomparable

00:59:39   actually last year and is a legitimately great movie just an amazing movie so

00:59:45   that's all about Mozart folks so what's the connection there I don't I have no

00:59:50   - Amadeus is about Mozart.

00:59:53   - It's about Mozart.

00:59:54   - It's about Mozart.

00:59:55   Well, it's about the guy who's Mozart's rival,

00:59:56   who's very frustrated with how talented Mozart is.

00:59:59   And Mozart's kind of like a rock star.

01:00:00   He's a misbehaving guy.

01:00:02   And the guy who has been putting his entire career,

01:00:05   who's played by F. Murray Abraham,

01:00:06   who won the Oscar for that role.

01:00:07   Like he is so angry at Mozart and hates Mozart

01:00:12   because Mozart's just so effortlessly talented.

01:00:15   And he just is a grinder who has ground his way

01:00:18   to being the court musician for the Austrian empire or whatever.

01:00:24   And sorry for the impromptu summary of Amadeus.

01:00:29   But having watched it, I watched it as like a teenager and I was bored by it,

01:00:32   but as an adult watching Amadeus, it's so good.

01:00:36   So yeah, that can be a double feature. Amadeus and Immortal Beloved.

01:00:39   You'll get your Mozart, you'll get your Beethoven.

01:00:42   And then download your iPhone app, I guess.

01:00:44   And I'm assuming Amadeus, Amadeus, nothing to do with it.

01:00:48   Well, I mean, that's about Mozart.

01:00:52   Yeah, but not the movie.

01:00:53   The Rock Me Amadeus by Falco.

01:00:56   It is, it is, it is. That's the whole idea, right?

01:01:01   Is that, how does that, "È va ein superstar, È va so popular?"

01:01:06   He was, yeah, it's like Wolfgang Mahler was in Mozart, was a

01:01:11   rock star of his time and uh and yes mike you've zeroed in on it rock me

01:01:16   amadeus inspired by the movie rock me amadeus

01:01:20   themes very similar to the themes in the movie

01:01:23   amadeus yeah falco rest in peace talco i'm naturally

01:01:28   assuming up gradients you got what you expected

01:01:31   from this segment right like you weren't expecting

01:01:35   anything more than this do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do

01:01:40   - Yeah, it's we're really experts in this category.

01:01:45   But I'm very excited for my friends

01:01:47   who are classical music fans,

01:01:48   because suffice it to say modern streaming services

01:01:51   like Apple Music and Spotify, not that great.

01:01:54   Like Apple Music specifically, like not that great

01:01:56   if you're a classical music fan.

01:01:57   iTunes historically has been not that great.

01:02:00   Macworld, Kirk McElhern wrote,

01:02:03   I don't wanna say, it wasn't dozens,

01:02:06   but many articles about how to try

01:02:08   to tame your iTunes library for classical use because it was such a mess.

01:02:13   So this has been the case for a long time so I'm very excited for

01:02:18   classical music fans who are using Apple's music ecosystem that they're

01:02:22   finally gonna get something that will hopefully serve them well. So that part

01:02:26   that that part's great and and yeah go see Amadeus it's great.

01:02:29   2nd of August 2016. Got an article here from Kirk McElhone I think on his own

01:02:36   on the website, Apple is finally making iTunes better

01:02:39   for classical music.

01:02:40   - Yeah, well, they progress.

01:02:43   I'm looking forward to what Kirk has to say about it

01:02:44   'cause Kirk is a bit of a grumpy guy actually.

01:02:47   - This is your time, Kirk.

01:02:48   - But he cares, so rise to the occasion, Kirk McElhern.

01:02:50   Do it, I mean, this is, I can't wait to see what he says

01:02:53   about this app when it launches at the end of the month

01:02:55   because he'll be a, he's the perfect audience

01:03:00   for this kind of thing.

01:03:01   - Rock me, McElhern.

01:03:02   (laughing)

01:03:04   (laughing)

01:03:06   - If you enjoy this show and want more of it,

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01:04:09   It's time for some Ask Upgrade questions.

01:04:16   Grant wrote in and says "My 2017 10.5" iPad Pro has broken.

01:04:24   I bought it at launch for £620.

01:04:27   What iPad would you suggest to replace it now?

01:04:30   The current iPad Pro is significantly more expensive, but the iPad and iPad Air lose

01:04:36   features like ProMotion.

01:04:38   Well, Grant, only you can decide, but my suggestion is the iPad Air, which I know is not quite

01:04:50   as fully featured as the current iPad Pro, but you've got a 2017 iPad Pro, so it's back

01:04:56   a little bit.

01:04:57   - You got like a home button on that thing.

01:04:59   - Is that right?

01:05:01   Yeah, I think it is.

01:05:02   - It is right.

01:05:03   - And does he have promotion or not?

01:05:06   - Yes, it does.

01:05:07   - It does have promotion on it.

01:05:08   - Yeah, I believe that device was the first iPad

01:05:13   to get promotion.

01:05:13   - To have promotion, yeah.

01:05:15   So I would probably say unless the promotion thing

01:05:18   is gonna kill you, like get the iPad Air.

01:05:21   It's a good deal.

01:05:23   It is basically like an iPad Pro in so many different ways

01:05:28   and yet is cheaper.

01:05:30   And so I would say that's probably what you should do.

01:05:35   If you could get a deal on a iPad Pro,

01:05:40   then you could go that way.

01:05:42   But I feel like the iPad,

01:05:44   and also there's rumors that next year

01:05:47   the iPad Pro is gonna get redesigned, right?

01:05:49   So you'd be getting the last of the existing iPad Pros.

01:05:53   You could do it, again, if you can find a deal or a refurb

01:05:56   or something like that, but the iPad Air,

01:05:57   I think is the best buy just sort of in general,

01:05:59   if you can stand to lose some of those

01:06:02   very specific iPad Pro features,

01:06:04   'cause you'll save some money.

01:06:05   - I realize now that there was a story

01:06:07   that I should have included in "Rouba Roundup,"

01:06:09   which is about these OLED iPad Pros.

01:06:12   We'll talk about that next week.

01:06:15   - Yeah.

01:06:15   Oh yeah, I'm glad we didn't break that seal,

01:06:17   'cause there's a whole thing that spins off of those

01:06:19   about what is Apple doing with the iPad Pro.

01:06:22   So we'll save that for next time.

01:06:23   We'll save that for next time.

01:06:24   What I will say is, if you can get a good deal, right,

01:06:29   on a third gen 11 inch or something,

01:06:34   then you should maybe look at that.

01:06:36   But realistically, I would say to go to the iPad Air,

01:06:39   it's a great device.

01:06:40   You'll lose, I think only like two features.

01:06:42   You get stereo speakers rather than the,

01:06:46   like two speakers rather than the four speakers,

01:06:49   like I said, we're all on stereo, and it's ProMotion.

01:06:51   but that iPad is great.

01:06:53   You still got touch ID.

01:06:55   I would recommend that one, I think,

01:06:57   if out of that line right now.

01:06:58   It's actually the pick I make to anybody now.

01:07:00   Like I think that iPad Air is kind of just like

01:07:03   the best iPad for most people.

01:07:04   The iPad Pro in its current iteration in the 11 inch,

01:07:08   that's not worth it.

01:07:10   Caleb asks, "How are those play dates doing?"

01:07:14   - Great.

01:07:16   I took mine to New Zealand and played it a little bit

01:07:17   on the Inter Island Ferry.

01:07:21   and some other places.

01:07:23   And there's still some games that I really like on it.

01:07:26   Now there's a bunch of new games that have come out

01:07:29   as a part of the launch of the new,

01:07:32   basically app store for Playdate.

01:07:34   You can still sideload things.

01:07:35   It's not like an Apple app store,

01:07:36   but they have this new app called Catalog.

01:07:38   It has a couple of free games

01:07:39   and then a whole bunch of games you can buy.

01:07:41   And you know, it's great.

01:07:44   I don't play it.

01:07:45   Like I've said before,

01:07:46   I don't play it as much as I thought I would,

01:07:48   mostly because of the fact that it's not backlit.

01:07:51   And so I am sometimes in situations

01:07:54   where I think about playing it

01:07:55   and there's not enough light.

01:07:57   And that's too bad that that's the way it is,

01:07:59   but that's the way it is.

01:08:00   And nobody has made a clip on play date light yet.

01:08:04   So this is where I am right now.

01:08:06   But I do love it.

01:08:08   And I love the software is obviously done with great care

01:08:13   and love by people who are, who they just love video games and devices like the playdate.

01:08:20   And so you've got a, you know, nobody, I think nobody is making games for the playdate because

01:08:25   it's a cash grab, right? They're doing it for the love of the genre and that comes through

01:08:29   too.

01:08:30   Yeah, I've, uh, I haven't touched mine for a bit. Like I've, you know, I played a bunch

01:08:34   of games a bunch. Um, and then I was done with the games that I wanted to play from

01:08:39   the first season. There is one or two that I still haven't checked out that I've been

01:08:42   meaning to but I I've booted up and downloaded the catalog thing and I want

01:08:47   to go in and poke around with some of those games my favorite playdate game

01:08:51   bloom which I've sideloaded is in the catalog it's one of the catalog games

01:08:57   and they've updated it I need to go in and check like what I would like to be

01:09:01   able to do is download this new version and it keeps my save file from my

01:09:06   sideloaded version I really hope that's the case because I don't want to play

01:09:09   through the whole game again to get to the new content but bloom is an

01:09:13   incredible experience of a game it's like a beautiful narrative game with

01:09:19   some kind of like farming kind of ideas it is wonderful I love it and they've

01:09:26   made it as part of their catalog which I'm not surprised about because I think

01:09:28   it's a triumph of a game on that platform but yeah I love to play they

01:09:32   I'm really looking forward to their stereo dock because I just think that'd

01:09:34   be really fun as a thing to buy and I really wish that the Jack Jason they

01:09:38   just make a clip on life of the thing like like we used to get for Gameboys. I think

01:09:42   in a different timeline wherein it was easier for them to have made the play dates because

01:09:47   they're still shipping from the original orders like they're still shipping them which is

01:09:52   incredible it was this wonderful success but also complicated. I reckon they would have

01:09:57   made more accessories like that like the Bluetooth dot they announced when they announced the

01:10:01   thing and they just were like we had to put that thing on hold because we had to actually

01:10:04   make these things. And they have now increased the price. It's going to be, I think, $1.99,

01:10:09   which $1.99 is difficult, right? You're basically a Nintendo Switch now. But it is a wonderful,

01:10:18   unique experience.

01:10:19   - I think it's only $20 different, but yeah, that's right. It's just a different thing.

01:10:23   It's just a different kind of object. And the people it appeals to, it appeals in a

01:10:28   very particular way. And if you want a Nintendo Switch, you know, there's like, I know that

01:10:34   They're both handheld game devices,

01:10:35   but boy, they're not the same at all.

01:10:38   - And of course you get games, right?

01:10:39   Like with the Play Date, that's like 12 games.

01:10:43   Like it is a wonderful thing

01:10:45   that I recommend people check out.

01:10:47   If you like games, I think you'll enjoy it.

01:10:49   'Cause it's like, especially if you like indie games.

01:10:51   And you can tell the love that goes into the entire thing.

01:10:54   Like it is something that I adore my little Play Date.

01:10:58   I had so much fun with that thing,

01:10:59   but I just haven't tried it.

01:11:01   I haven't picked it up in a while, but I'm going to.

01:11:04   Mitch asks, "Do you think Apple,"

01:11:08   this is the perennial question,

01:11:09   "Will stick with the numbering scheme of the iPhone

01:11:12   all the way up to iPhone 17 and beyond?

01:11:15   I note this because it would be

01:11:16   the first three-syllable iPhone name."

01:11:19   So I wrote down a potential name today,

01:11:22   which is iPhone 17 Pro Max.

01:11:25   - Yeah. - That's a long name.

01:11:27   Like, just many syllables.

01:11:30   - It is.

01:11:31   I don't know how they get off the train at this point.

01:11:35   Right?

01:11:36   - Yep.

01:11:37   - I just, I feel like they're on it now.

01:11:39   I don't know what can be done.

01:11:42   Like as long as they're selling old models,

01:11:47   they can't just call it the iPhone 2023.

01:11:51   Right?

01:11:51   They can't do it.

01:11:52   They have to specify what model it is.

01:11:55   And the Tim Cook strategy of, you know,

01:11:57   we're still selling the iPhone 16

01:12:00   and we're still selling the iPhone 15

01:12:02   and we're still selling the iPhone 4,

01:12:04   that strategy where it takes a long time for it

01:12:06   to kind of coalesce into an SE is going to continue, I think.

01:12:11   And that's the result,

01:12:14   which is they gotta name these things unique names

01:12:16   and the number, it is what it is.

01:12:21   Like I would have preferred them to go to the year

01:12:24   at this point, right?

01:12:25   So that it would be the iPhone 23 comes out in 23.

01:12:29   but they don't seem to want to do that.

01:12:32   - I mean, it's still just an ever increasing number.

01:12:36   It's a different number.

01:12:37   - It's just a different number.

01:12:39   It's absolutely true.

01:12:40   - Couple of points,

01:12:41   Zach points out three GS is three syllables,

01:12:43   yeah, but I think it's different.

01:12:45   And David says, hopefully they'll drop the pro from Pro Max,

01:12:48   but if they do, they'll probably make it ultra,

01:12:50   which is still two syllables,

01:12:51   so we're back to the same problem again.

01:12:52   I think the problem is just like 17 pro,

01:12:56   it's just like so much,

01:12:57   like you just keep going on forever,

01:12:59   17 Pro Max.

01:13:01   So many, it's just such a big name.

01:13:03   It's just so big, but whatever, you know what I mean?

01:13:07   Like they're just gonna,

01:13:08   what is, as you say, what else are they gonna do?

01:13:10   Should call it iPhone?

01:13:11   - Yeah. - No, they can't do that.

01:13:12   It's too complicated.

01:13:13   I know they do it for other products,

01:13:15   but it's too complicated for the iPhone.

01:13:16   - As long as they're not replacing them every year,

01:13:19   but keeping them around for longer than a year for cheaper,

01:13:22   they can't do that, right?

01:13:23   Like they can't say, this is the iPhone

01:13:25   and that's also the iPhone.

01:13:27   They can't do that. - Yep.

01:13:28   They could, if they discontinued it every year

01:13:31   and replaced it with new models,

01:13:32   they could do what the MacBook Air does, right?

01:13:34   Which is just, it's the MacBook Air.

01:13:36   - Or the iPad, right?

01:13:37   The iPad's the same. - Or the iPad.

01:13:38   Exactly.

01:13:40   But if they keep them around, they can't do that.

01:13:43   And they keep them around,

01:13:44   that's part of the big iPhone strategy.

01:13:46   So, and they're not gonna, I'll put it this way,

01:13:49   they're not gonna change that strategy

01:13:51   just to make the names more satisfying, right?

01:13:54   If they change that strategy for other reasons,

01:13:56   they could say, "Hey, wait a second,

01:13:57   we don't need to do the name thing anymore,

01:13:59   but I just don't see any signs of that happening.

01:14:02   - No, neither do I.

01:14:04   So we're just gonna keep getting those names

01:14:05   longer and longer and longer.

01:14:07   iPhone 264 Pro Max.

01:14:10   - And David Shaw points out, yeah,

01:14:11   it actually is a problem with the MacBook Air

01:14:13   'cause there's the M1 MacBook Air and the M2 MacBook Air.

01:14:15   That is true.

01:14:16   But there they're using the chip basically

01:14:18   as a differentiator, but it's complicated, right?

01:14:20   'Cause they've left the old model around.

01:14:22   But you're right, the iPad is a good example.

01:14:24   Even there, the iPad, there's the ninth generation

01:14:25   and the 10th generation, and you see--

01:14:27   - But they don't care about that.

01:14:29   (laughs)

01:14:29   - That's how it bites you though,

01:14:31   is that now we're using parenthetical names

01:14:34   that are confusing.

01:14:36   It's worse than saying iPad 9.

01:14:38   - And we will always do that though.

01:14:41   Like even if, this is the thing,

01:14:43   it's like even if Apple do this though,

01:14:45   we'll still use ways to describe each model year, right?

01:14:49   - Sure, we will.

01:14:50   But there'll be consumer confusion.

01:14:52   - The market--

01:14:53   - 'Cause the consumer will just be like,

01:14:54   iPhone this, iPhone that, right?

01:14:55   Like how do I even do that?

01:14:58   So I just, I feel like they're on this path now

01:15:00   and I have a hard time imagining them changing

01:15:03   as ridiculous it is, you know, to say iPhone 17 or iPhone 23.

01:15:08   That seems to be where we are.

01:15:09   I don't know.

01:15:10   It's weird.

01:15:12   - If you would like to send in an Ask Upgrade question

01:15:14   for us to answer on a future episode of the show,

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01:15:38   Thank you so much to everybody that does.

01:15:41   Much appreciated.

01:15:42   This was episode 450 of Upgrade.

01:15:47   Until next time, if you would like to check out

01:15:49   Jason's work, go to sickcolors.com.

01:15:51   You can also hear his podcast at the incomparable.com

01:15:54   and

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01:16:11   Thank you to our members who support us with Upgrade Plus.

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01:16:17   Thank you to Capital One and ExpressVPN for their support of this show.

01:16:21   And most of all, thank you for listening.

01:16:23   Until next time, say goodbye, Jason Snow.

01:16:26   - Goodbye, everybody.

01:16:27   [MUSIC PLAYING]

01:16:30   [ Music ]