442: They Want Azimuth


00:00:00   (upbeat music)

00:00:02   Hello and welcome to Connected episode 442.

00:00:12   It's made possible this week by our sponsors,

00:00:14   Fitbaud, Electric, Zocdoc and Setapp.

00:00:18   My name is Stephen Hackett

00:00:19   and I have the pleasure of being joined by Mr. Mike Hurley.

00:00:22   Hello.

00:00:23   Hello, how are you?

00:00:24   Very good, thank you, how are you?

00:00:26   I am good.

00:00:27   We were also joined by Mr. Federico Vittucci.

00:00:29   Hi. Hello. How are you?

00:00:31   Good. We're all here. We've got a bunch of stuff to do today. I'm excited.

00:00:35   What?

00:00:37   No, no, no.

00:00:39   I think I did this once before. It's like, it's not actually a quiz,

00:00:42   but we're like technically like tiptoeing into the quizzes here because I have

00:00:47   quizzes follow up. This isn't actually a quiz.

00:00:49   I have an important piece of quizzes news for you. Very important.

00:00:54   I was contacted by relay FM historian Kate to let me know I made an error in the scoring

00:01:02   of the last episode.

00:01:03   Wow.

00:01:04   Stop the count.

00:01:06   Well that was the problem as I stopped the count too soon.

00:01:11   So I'm dealing with a lot of numbers right and I go into a spreadsheet.

00:01:15   And the question, I think it's question number seven, what is Federico's preferred

00:01:19   Mac?

00:01:20   Federico's got the 10, 20 and 40 point answers, but in my spreadsheet I wrote 10, 20, 20.

00:01:28   So Federico not actually won the entire game and is 20 points higher than I said he was.

00:01:35   So this is good news for me.

00:01:37   This is great news for you.

00:01:38   Ah, I love this piece of follow up.

00:01:40   Yeah.

00:01:41   So I made a slight error.

00:01:42   Thank you, Kate.

00:01:43   You got my back.

00:01:44   I appreciate it.

00:01:45   Thank you.

00:01:46   Kate couldn't have been nicer in the way that they presented this information to me, which

00:01:50   which I really appreciate.

00:01:51   - Looking out for justice.

00:01:54   I love this.

00:01:55   Thank you. - I was surprised

00:01:57   that only Kate wrote in about this,

00:02:00   but there were apparently a couple of people that noticed

00:02:02   and they were discussing it in the background,

00:02:04   but only one person contacted me.

00:02:06   - Only person who cares about the truth.

00:02:09   - Yes. - And you know,

00:02:11   what is right in this program.

00:02:14   Thank you.

00:02:15   - So the actual score for the

00:02:17   Do The Passionate Ones Know You round two was Stephen scored 580 points and Federico

00:02:24   scored 590 points.

00:02:28   Nice.

00:02:29   And so now the overall total scores for this year is Stephen at 1020 and Federico at 1120.

00:02:35   Nice.

00:02:36   I'm the champion.

00:02:38   That's the end of my follow up.

00:02:39   Thank you to Kate and everybody else that worked together to try and correct me.

00:02:44   I'm glad it's been corrected because when I mount my comeback and win this year, I don't

00:02:49   want to be tainted by your poor arithmetic.

00:02:53   No collusion.

00:02:54   No collusion.

00:02:55   So somebody was writing "bananaphone" in a lot, which was really annoying, and I mentioned

00:02:59   how annoying I found it.

00:03:01   Brett wrote in to say, "The bananaphone reference.

00:03:04   I did not give that answer for the quizzies, but it's a very important reference to a classic

00:03:08   children's song from Wikipedia.

00:03:10   Banana Phone is a children's album released by Raffi and Michael Kreber in 1994.

00:03:16   The album is best known for its title track, which uses puns such as "It's a phone with

00:03:21   appeal" like "appeal" and non-words like "bananula" and "interactavodula" as Raffi extols the

00:03:28   virtues of his unique telephone.

00:03:31   This is absolutely, 100%, not at all helpful in any way, or relevant, or anything.

00:03:38   I have no idea what any of this is.

00:03:41   Yeah, it's completely irrelevant.

00:03:43   It doesn't matter that somebody said this.

00:03:45   There is absolutely zero reason to write banana phone like seven times into the survey.

00:03:50   Yeah, what even?

00:03:53   Who are Rafi and Michael?

00:03:55   They're the people who voted in the poll, clearly.

00:04:00   That is the only way I would find this acceptable.

00:04:03   No.

00:04:04   Is if the person who created the song filled out the quiz.

00:04:08   Like, I don't care that you like the song or that you think it's funny.

00:04:11   Like, just stop it. You know what I mean?

00:04:13   Yeah.

00:04:14   That's all I gotta say. Well, never stop what I lost.

00:04:17   This is an American thing, right? I bet this is an American thing.

00:04:21   I never heard of it. I even looked it up on YouTube and it didn't, like,

00:04:24   ring any, like, bells deep in my memory.

00:04:26   I wanna bet. Because Americans, they have a tendency to believe that all of their cultural

00:04:32   references are shared worldwide.

00:04:34   Yes.

00:04:35   Oh, Canadian.

00:04:36   Oh, that's why no one knows about it.

00:04:38   Even worse!

00:04:39   [Laughter]

00:04:40   Wow!

00:04:41   Those Canadians!

00:04:42   [Laughter]

00:04:43   We're gonna start a war with Canada.

00:04:46   They ain't gonna fly back.

00:04:49   They'll just apologize.

00:04:50   What's the deal with Canadians?

00:04:52   Look at Michael.

00:04:53   Michael seems to be having a good time in these photos.

00:04:58   Apple Music Classical.

00:04:59   Boys, we're just a few days away from its launch on the iPhone.

00:05:03   Oh yeah!

00:05:04   Are you excited?

00:05:05   I even forgot about it.

00:05:07   Yeah, brutal.

00:05:09   I mean.

00:05:12   Adrian wrote in, 'cause we were talking about

00:05:15   how it's on the iPhone, it's not on the iPad and Mac,

00:05:19   it will be coming to Android, quote, coming soon,

00:05:23   is I think is what Apple has said.

00:05:25   And Adrian wrote in to remind us of that

00:05:28   and kind of wondering why it would be on Android

00:05:33   but not the Mac and iPad.

00:05:35   Any thoughts?

00:05:36   I think that's, I think they have a point.

00:05:42   I think that this idea of, from Adrian's feedback, so this idea that more, there are

00:05:50   more subscribers who don't have an iPhone, that there are iPad or Mac users who don't

00:05:55   have an iPhone, like, you know, actually, I think this explanation makes a lot more

00:06:00   sense than mine.

00:06:02   about the because that that one I think I said it on the episode is like that makes sense but didn't feel

00:06:08   Necessarily like the reason to do it because there is some Android based

00:06:12   Like DAX or whatever

00:06:15   And I still say like sure

00:06:18   but

00:06:20   This is Apple though. Sure, but yeah, it's still not a good look for the it's not good enough

00:06:26   in my experience, and I think it'd be fine if there was no Mac app, it's the iPad app,

00:06:32   which is I think the most egregious. It's right there! Yeah, it's the same operating system

00:06:38   essentially, right? Like, all good apps should be made with the way that they should be able to be

00:06:44   scaled to the iPad, so especially if this is, as you would assume, built on the architecture of the

00:06:51   music app, which already does this, you know?

00:06:55   - And we should say like Apple Music is on Android

00:06:59   because Beats Music was an Android.

00:07:02   And I think Apple wants their music service

00:07:04   to be as big as possible, right?

00:07:06   I mean, clearly there's some strategy there

00:07:07   beyond just like the historic reasons,

00:07:10   but it's definitely not a good look

00:07:13   for Apple's other products.

00:07:14   - iOS 16.4 release candidate is out,

00:07:19   which means the thing is probably launching next Tuesday

00:07:22   or Wednesday, I wanna say probably Tuesday.

00:07:25   So it's pretty much done.

00:07:26   We have the full release notes.

00:07:27   A couple of things that I saved

00:07:29   that I wanted to point out to you guys.

00:07:32   I copied the release notes on my iPhone.

00:07:34   So we confirmed 21 new emoji,

00:07:37   notifications for web apps, we talked about this.

00:07:41   Something new that wasn't mentioned before,

00:07:43   the voice isolation audio effect.

00:07:46   You know, the thing that used to be like FaceTime and voice over IP apps only, that sort of

00:07:52   isolates your voice, cuts out, you know, background sounds and noise.

00:07:57   It's also coming to cellular phone calls, which is pretty nice because I mean, there

00:08:02   are many times where for example, I call my mom, right?

00:08:06   And just a straight up regular phone call.

00:08:10   And to have that audio effect sounds pretty cool.

00:08:14   Like if I'm at the mall, for example, and my mom calls me, I can just turn on voice

00:08:19   isolation and she's going to hear me better.

00:08:21   It's pretty nice, I think.

00:08:24   Very nice addition.

00:08:25   I think it makes sense.

00:08:26   And on iPadOS, there's the thing that I think is new in the release notes, like they didn't

00:08:30   previously disclose this addition.

00:08:32   If you guys can help me make sense of this, please.

00:08:35   Apple Pencil Hover adds tilt and azimuth support.

00:08:40   you can preview your mark at any angle before you make it in notes and supported apps.

00:08:47   Can you spell that word for me?

00:08:49   Azimuth. A-Z-I-M-U-T-H.

00:08:52   No, tilt. Have you spelled tilt? The direction of a celestial object from the observer expressed

00:09:00   as the angular distance from the north or south point of the horizon to the point at

00:09:05   which a vertical circle passing through the object intersects the horizon.

00:09:10   me if I'm wrong Azimuth should be the opposite of Zenith I think? Anybody here?

00:09:18   How could I possibly correct you? You know what I mean?

00:09:20   You never heard about this? Zenith and Azimuth? But I never, basically I can never recall

00:09:24   which is which.

00:09:26   I'm currently looking at a diagram on Google which has celestial meridian, zenith, observer,

00:09:32   horizon, star, altitude, azimuth.

00:09:34   So zenith is a thing? Oh no they're not, zenith and nadir. Oh thank you Jason and thank

00:09:39   you with it. They're not the opposite. What is happening right now? I don't understand

00:09:45   70% of the words people are saying. Alright, alright, so I know this, I know this because

00:09:50   when I was little, I gotta tell you, when I was little I was an incredible nerd when

00:09:55   it came to, you know, you know the machina, you know the machina of Santa Rosa, Inviterbo,

00:10:00   the big celebration in my hometown. So, and there used to be these like technical sketches

00:10:05   of each model of the machina.

00:10:08   And I remember when I was like seven or eight,

00:10:11   I was looking at these technical drawings of each model

00:10:14   and there used to be like this word, like zenith point.

00:10:17   And I remember asking my mom, what's a zenith point?

00:10:20   And I believe that the zenith point of the machina

00:10:23   used to be like the machina as seen from above.

00:10:27   - Yeah.

00:10:27   - Right?

00:10:28   - That's what the diagram looks like.

00:10:29   - Imagine if you stand on a tall tower

00:10:31   and at the exact perpendicular center of it

00:10:35   and you look down, that should be the zenith point.

00:10:39   So what is the azimuth point anyway?

00:10:40   - It looks like if you were to hold,

00:10:43   like if you were to tilt something

00:10:44   and move it kind of like left and right,

00:10:46   based on this article.

00:10:48   - Okay.

00:10:49   - Or on this diagram, I should say.

00:10:51   - So zenith and nadir.

00:10:53   Well, thank you, Jason.

00:10:54   Those are really good words.

00:10:56   - I don't know why we can't just get along with tilt.

00:10:58   Like I feel like tilt would be perfectly acceptable,

00:11:01   but maybe to people that really care,

00:11:03   they want Azimuth written in there.

00:11:06   But that's good news, I suppose.

00:11:08   - I mean, you're supposed to know these fancy words,

00:11:12   you know?

00:11:12   - Why?

00:11:13   - Well, it's good culture.

00:11:15   It's good education to know them.

00:11:17   - Yeah, I have not a lot of education

00:11:20   and I've done fine.

00:11:21   You know what I mean?

00:11:24   - It's okay, man.

00:11:26   Fine.

00:11:27   Cool, so anyway, 16.4.

00:11:31   - Education.

00:11:31   Small topic took us places we did not expect. Yeah

00:11:34   Stephen what you got for us?

00:11:37   Well, there is one more feature in the release candidate that I want to point out is that oh, yes

00:11:42   It includes duplicate detection emerging in a shared photo library

00:11:47   Now that has been I mean less. I'm just like misunderstanding that's been on the Mac like it's on the Mac right now

00:11:55   I'm looking at it. I open photos in preparation for this like oh I can see duplicates and I can see them in

00:12:01   in like across personal and shared library.

00:12:06   But anyways, I don't know if it's new to the Mac as well

00:12:09   or they're changing something about it,

00:12:10   but it is on iOS now, which is great.

00:12:14   It's a pretty sweet feature.

00:12:15   I have not really had much trouble with it.

00:12:19   I mean, my photo library, I guess we've talked about,

00:12:22   is like a real disaster right now

00:12:24   with having combined my wife and I's,

00:12:27   and there's a lot of overlap and stuff.

00:12:28   So I probably will just let the duplication thing

00:12:33   figure out what it wants to do

00:12:34   and then go about my tagging.

00:12:36   And I got a bunch of photos without dates

00:12:39   and locations and stuff to fix, but so far so good.

00:12:43   - By the way, the zenith point of the machina

00:12:47   is if you stand below it and you look up, I think.

00:12:52   - Oh, okay. - And then the deer point.

00:12:53   Which I did when I was little.

00:12:55   My parents took me, I was like 10.

00:12:57   to see it inside before the event.

00:13:02   - That must have been amazing.

00:13:04   - Yeah, it was incredible.

00:13:05   Like it's super scary, but like you stand inside it

00:13:09   and under it basically, and you look up

00:13:13   and you see this whole structure inside,

00:13:14   like electrical wires, like these, you know,

00:13:17   steel reinforced steel cables, it's wild.

00:13:20   So when you look up is the Zenith point.

00:13:23   And if you were to stand on top of it all and look down,

00:13:27   that would be the Nadir point of it.

00:13:29   Cool.

00:13:31   - I love watching that live stream

00:13:32   when they're carrying it through town and it's amazing.

00:13:36   - They're changing it, I think next year,

00:13:39   because of like the model is supposed to refresh

00:13:44   every seven years, but then because of COVID,

00:13:46   the local administration wisely chose

00:13:51   to spend the money elsewhere during the pandemic.

00:13:54   And so they're like, we are gonna spend a bunch of money

00:13:57   on a new model in 2024.

00:13:59   So, you know, the Machina and the iPad Pro going

00:14:03   hand in hand with new models in 2024.

00:14:05   - Oh, let Machina come in in 2024.

00:14:07   - It's gonna cost twice as much for no real reason.

00:14:10   - It's gonna look the same.

00:14:11   (laughing)

00:14:14   - Still can't run two apps at a time very well.

00:14:17   I just wanna just to shout something out on the show.

00:14:20   I've had, over the last few months, people have asked me,

00:14:23   like, oh, can I get the wallpapers or the counter dates

00:14:27   from the Kickstarters, 'cause I run those,

00:14:29   where you can buy them separately

00:14:31   or during a Kickstarter or afterwards.

00:14:33   But I was like, oh, I should just have them up year round.

00:14:35   And so there's a link in the show notes

00:14:36   if you want those wallpapers or ICS versions

00:14:41   of the calendars that you can subscribe to

00:14:43   in iCloud or Google or wherever you are.

00:14:46   They're all available now year round.

00:14:48   Do that together this week,

00:14:49   and I think people are enjoying it, which is cool.

00:14:52   I'm an e-merchant now.

00:14:55   Well, congratulations.

00:14:57   Coming after Jeff Bezos.

00:14:59   Oh. Wow.

00:15:01   I even have a book on here.

00:15:02   I've got my old iMac and OS X book on here as a PDF now.

00:15:06   Lofty gold.

00:15:07   Why don't you put the genius book on there?

00:15:09   Nope. Nope.

00:15:10   We don't talk about that project.

00:15:12   (laughing)

00:15:14   That just popped into my head, man.

00:15:16   That was a good book.

00:15:17   That caused a lot of trouble.

00:15:19   What was it called?

00:15:20   Bartending.

00:15:22   Genius name.

00:15:24   - Listener, listener, listen to me.

00:15:26   Do not look for this book.

00:15:29   You're not gonna find it.

00:15:30   It wasn't very good.

00:15:32   - I just found it on Mac stories.

00:15:33   Yeah, there you go.

00:15:34   There it is right there.

00:15:36   - This episode of Connected is brought to you by Fitbod.

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00:16:20   and try to replicate what he's doing.

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00:17:43   your membership. That link is also in the show notes fitbod.me/connected.

00:17:48   Our thanks to Fitbod for their support of the show and Relay FM.

00:17:53   Wade wrote in and asks, "Follow up to the roast of your Apple Watches from episode 437.

00:18:00   Do any of you use alternate Apple Watch faces for different activities?"

00:18:04   I don't know if this counts as a valid answer to the question.

00:18:12   I have three watch faces that I use.

00:18:16   I have a work one, a personal one, and a sleep one.

00:18:19   Every once in a while, usually when it's like New Year's Eve

00:18:22   or when there's a birthday party

00:18:24   and we are counting down at midnight,

00:18:27   I put on an analog watch face, which I usually never use,

00:18:32   because you know my stance on analog watch faces,

00:18:36   but it's a very effective way to do it,

00:18:39   10, nine, eight, you know, the whole countdown thing.

00:18:43   So when that occasion occurs, I install the watch face beforehand, I use it, and then

00:18:52   when, you know, after the celebration is done, I just delete the watch face.

00:18:56   You delete it?

00:18:57   Yeah, you can just swipe it up and, you know, just get it out of the way.

00:19:00   I don't need to see it.

00:19:01   I don't need to see the clock hands, you know, it's not, you know, the medieval age.

00:19:07   When you have embargos, what do you use to count like the seconds?

00:19:10   Oh, I just look at the minute, and when the minute is up, I just wait.

00:19:14   You just like got your finger just hovering over the publish button, you just wait for

00:19:18   an hour to change?

00:19:19   Yeah.

00:19:20   You can't trust WordPress scheduling in an embargo situation.

00:19:22   No, you don't want to schedule an embargo.

00:19:24   No, no, but I'm saying you could be waiting up to 59 seconds with your finger just hovering

00:19:27   there.

00:19:28   Yeah, well, that's the beauty of it, right?

00:19:29   I have my whole routine before big embargoes.

00:19:33   I like to listen to Live Forever by Oasis.

00:19:37   In case anything bad happens.

00:19:38   So specific.

00:19:39   Like, I literally do this.

00:19:40   And also before publishing my big iOS reviews,

00:19:43   I always listen to Live Forever by Oasis.

00:19:46   It's like my good luck thing,

00:19:48   but also like, you know, it's inspirational.

00:19:50   Like in case anything bad happens, I just, you know,

00:19:52   live forever.

00:19:53   I'm gonna live forever.

00:19:54   - Wait, wait, wait.

00:19:55   - Yeah.

00:19:56   - Can you tie those two things together for me?

00:19:58   Why, if anything bad happens, does Live Forever help you?

00:20:02   - Like, because I like to be in the mindset

00:20:05   that even if I somehow destroy my website,

00:20:08   I'm gonna live forever in other people's memories.

00:20:11   - Okay, so you're gonna live forever anyway.

00:20:12   That makes sense. - Yes.

00:20:13   Yes.

00:20:15   - Now I wanna ask Steven both of these questions.

00:20:20   Do you have any Apple Watch faces

00:20:21   and what do you do when you publish things on an embargo?

00:20:25   (laughing)

00:20:26   - I don't have an embargo very often, which is nice.

00:20:29   But my main watch face as discussed is modular,

00:20:33   but I also have modular compact,

00:20:37   which is basically the same except I ditch the calendar

00:20:40   and use like a full, like the full size Carrotweather one.

00:20:44   That's normally my weekend face,

00:20:45   'cause I get the time, activity rings, and the weather.

00:20:48   I also have a modular face for workouts

00:20:52   that has a stopwatch,

00:20:54   and then the complications are overcast,

00:20:57   fit bod, and Carrotweather, and activity rings.

00:21:01   And then my like, I don't really wanna see anything,

00:21:04   I just wanna kinda wear a watch,

00:21:06   and it'd be as simple as possible.

00:21:08   I love Solar Graph, which is an old watch face,

00:21:12   but I'm a big fan of it.

00:21:13   And that's my like, maybe it's,

00:21:16   you know, maybe we're out to dinner or something

00:21:18   and I've worn the Apple Watch,

00:21:19   but I don't really want anything except the date and time.

00:21:21   Then I use that one.

00:21:23   - I feel like you two were sandbagging me

00:21:25   when we did the watch roast.

00:21:27   And in fact, we'll use like four watch faces each.

00:21:30   - But I would say 90% of the time,

00:21:33   I'm on the one we talked about.

00:21:35   I don't have a separate sleep one because I use the sleep modes.

00:21:38   My watch just goes, you know, in the sleep mode where there's no face.

00:21:42   So I would say at least 90% of the time I'm on that main one.

00:21:48   Okay, I use just one.

00:21:50   I have like four on the thing, but they're just the watch faces I was using previously.

00:21:55   You know, like pretty much every time, well whenever Apple brings out a new watch face

00:21:59   that I like, I just switch to that one.

00:22:01   But then like the ones from previous years are still there.

00:22:04   So like I use, what is it, Metropolitan now.

00:22:08   Before that I was using California.

00:22:13   Before that was World Time.

00:22:14   Before that was GMT.

00:22:15   So they would just kind of live there like a little family tree kind of thing.

00:22:19   Yeah, it's like a time machine backup of watch faces.

00:22:22   You know what?

00:22:23   It actually is kind of like that.

00:22:25   That's actually a side note question.

00:22:28   How and if and what?

00:22:33   which device how and if and upon how if upon you know time machine what I want to

00:22:56   know is yeah present present tense come on go on you can do okay so let me go

00:23:04   back I feel like I gotta start over again so time machine machine

00:23:11   some my MacBook Air right as I'm like saying this I'm now realizing this

00:23:24   probably the easier way to do this but my MacBook Air, I plug it into my studio

00:23:29   display every day right and I only plug it straight into the studio

00:23:33   display because in the studio display just has like a couple of dongles used

00:23:37   to fill out the other USB C ports. I don't use a dock for that one because it's

00:23:40   simple. But I came to the realization that I'm, because of that, not

00:23:44   backing up that machine, time machine. Oh that's what-evs man, whatever.

00:23:50   everything's in Dropbox and everything's being backed up to Backblaze. It's totally fine.

00:23:55   But what I wanted to just see, is there still a way to do Time Machine over the network?

00:24:01   Yes, there is.

00:24:02   How do you... and see, now this is why I was like, how and upon, right? Like,

00:24:07   how do you do it and upon which device do you do it? Like, how do you do that? I don't even

00:24:12   understand how it works.

00:24:13   How and upon if.

00:24:14   I am going to put a link in the Google doc that you can go read later about it.

00:24:20   because it's complicated to talk about,

00:24:22   but basically you set it up on a Mac

00:24:25   and it's in the sharing system settings pane.

00:24:29   I use this--

00:24:30   But what is it back up to though?

00:24:31   Yeah, yeah, so I use this at home,

00:24:35   not for my machine, but for my wife's machine

00:24:37   and the couple of laptops the kids use

00:24:39   for like school homework and stuff.

00:24:41   And I just have like a,

00:24:42   maybe it's like a six terabyte spinning hard drive

00:24:45   hanging off the Mac mini that's under my TV.

00:24:48   That's kind of like the media center computer.

00:24:50   And those laptops all just back up over the network

00:24:54   to that six terabyte drive.

00:24:55   And so you set it up on the host computer, if you will,

00:25:00   and then you go to the remote computer and tell it,

00:25:03   oh, back up over here.

00:25:04   It's really pretty straightforward.

00:25:06   It used to require like Mac OS X server back in the day,

00:25:08   but now it's just built into regular Mac OS.

00:25:12   - Okay, so I would need to put another drive

00:25:16   on say my MacBook Pro,

00:25:18   which is always docked and just sleeping.

00:25:20   Yeah. Yeah.

00:25:21   To make this work.

00:25:22   All right. That is a feasible thing to do.

00:25:25   Oh yeah.

00:25:26   And in my experience, I've had it running for years

00:25:29   and it's been really solid.

00:25:30   Like I don't really ever get failures on it

00:25:34   where like a computer just stops backing up.

00:25:36   It's been really, really great.

00:25:38   Now, because it's over the network,

00:25:40   leave the computer there over the weekend

00:25:41   for the first backup.

00:25:42   Like the first one's going to take a while.

00:25:45   But then after that, like, you know, I mean,

00:25:46   it's pretty quick 'cause it's just over the local network.

00:25:48   So it's-

00:25:49   It's totally manageable and really easy to do now.

00:25:52   Okay, I'll take a look into this.

00:25:55   How upon...

00:25:56   How upon...

00:25:57   And...

00:25:58   And what?

00:26:00   Nailed it.

00:26:01   Cubes are out.

00:26:02   Triangles are in.

00:26:04   No, give people the goods.

00:26:07   Read what you wrote in our document.

00:26:09   It's funny.

00:26:11   Tiny topic two.

00:26:12   Tired cubes.

00:26:13   Wired triangles.

00:26:15   See?

00:26:16   Perfect.

00:26:17   I disagree.

00:26:18   I will say, when I first read that, I was very confused.

00:26:21   I read it as tired cubes, wired triangles.

00:26:23   I was like, what the hell's going on?

00:26:25   Like if you just read it, like in that format,

00:26:28   tired cubes, wired triangles.

00:26:31   That's very confusing.

00:26:32   But yeah.

00:26:35   - Yeah, so this is a new multi charger from Anker.

00:26:40   So it's 15 watt max safe charging.

00:26:45   And it's like a little triangle.

00:26:47   your phone goes on the front of it,

00:26:48   and then the Apple Watch arm kind of just

00:26:52   sticks out the side.

00:26:53   And I'm really just joking.

00:26:55   And then there's the charger on the underneath?

00:26:58   On the zenith of it, or something.

00:27:02   (laughing)

00:27:03   Is that the zenith?

00:27:04   I don't know, I blacked out in that section.

00:27:06   It's on the nadir, because you would be up

00:27:08   and looking down on it to see it.

00:27:10   Exactly, thank you, Mike.

00:27:11   See?

00:27:12   Okay.

00:27:13   See, who needs school when I can just learn this

00:27:15   on a podcast?

00:27:16   Exactly. Exactly.

00:27:18   I learned everything I needed to know from podcasts.

00:27:20   Same to you to this day.

00:27:21   I learned everything I needed to know from Jason Snell, apparently.

00:27:23   Podcast University, that's what we all went to.

00:27:26   Studied at Podcast U.

00:27:28   The P.U.

00:27:29   Studied at P.U.

00:27:31   P.U.

00:27:32   The M.P.U. You rebrand the M.P.U. as the My Podcast University.

00:27:37   My Power University.

00:27:38   Yeah, My Podcast University.

00:27:40   There you go. Nailed it. Got it. Love it.

00:27:44   Just as I'm gonna put some follow-up inside of this topic before we talk about a call up on Mac power users

00:27:49   Mm-hmm, so I'm also like fully up-to-date now - I just hadn't listened to that episode yet where you spoke about your

00:27:56   Computer changing. Yeah, and I feel like I don't fully understand what you've done or why you've done it

00:28:01   I feel like you just kind of said I've done this thing, but there was no like

00:28:05   Oh a laptop seems nicer like that wasn't a reason. Mmm. I expanded upon it in the 512 members newsletter

00:28:13   Oh for God's sake.

00:28:15   I guess what Mike is trying to say, imagine the show we would have been able to put on,

00:28:19   Mike and I, if you told us you had switched computers.

00:28:22   Because David is just nice to you.

00:28:24   We would have put on a whole drama about it and instead, you know, you just got a nice

00:28:29   guy to tell you, yeah, that's a good idea.

00:28:31   Why are you making it so complicated, right?

00:28:33   Like I have to listen to Mac Power Users and then read your newsletter to get the full

00:28:37   story.

00:28:38   Why can't you just tell me?

00:28:39   Because this is your response.

00:28:40   Because we want to get to do this.

00:28:43   Okay, fair enough. Well, I want more from you. So like, you just said like, "Oh, I just

00:28:50   stopped using my Mac studio. Now I have a laptop." Like, that's not satisfactory.

00:28:56   Not satisfactory. So it really came down to the fact that I've been running the two-computer

00:29:03   life style for like seven or eight years now. A long time.

00:29:08   Tell me about it.

00:29:09   since I moved into the studio.

00:29:11   So I guess like, yeah, like seven, seven and a half years.

00:29:14   I like a lot about the two computer lifestyle.

00:29:17   And so I would have a desktop

00:29:19   and then I would have a notebook

00:29:20   and the notebook would be a subset of my data,

00:29:23   my applications, my workflows, you know,

00:29:25   all that sort of stuff.

00:29:26   And it was especially great,

00:29:28   or like not a big deal during the pandemic

00:29:30   'cause I was just always using the desktop, right?

00:29:32   'Cause I didn't go anywhere.

00:29:34   But increasingly,

00:29:36   and it's kind of a thing I wanna do this year even more,

00:29:39   is work more out of the office when I can.

00:29:44   And there were several times where I would be

00:29:47   in the situation where like, oh crap,

00:29:50   the podcast I was gonna edit here at the coffee shop

00:29:53   is on the Mac Studio at home, or the Mac Pro,

00:29:55   or whatever the desktop was at the time.

00:29:57   Even though it's easier than ever

00:29:59   to run the two Mac lifestyle, I just kind of realized

00:30:02   that this is overhead that I don't actually need

00:30:06   because the studio display's awesome

00:30:08   and the MacBook Pro is awesome,

00:30:09   and I can get a Thunderbolt dock

00:30:11   and everything runs through that.

00:30:12   So it really was about simplifying my setup.

00:30:15   I'm really enjoying having everything with me at one place.

00:30:19   Last week, we were on spring break,

00:30:20   I was out of town for a few days,

00:30:22   and I took my computer, I was like,

00:30:23   "Oh, I have just everything with me."

00:30:26   I don't have the overhead of like,

00:30:27   make sure the files are in Dropbox,

00:30:29   or, "Oh, I changed this setting,"

00:30:32   or this whatever on that computer,

00:30:35   it's not changed on this computer.

00:30:36   So it's really a simplification,

00:30:38   and the 14 inch MacBook Pro is so good,

00:30:41   it seemed like the way to go when I wanted to try this out.

00:30:45   - But you didn't have one of those though, did you?

00:30:48   You had to get one of those, right?

00:30:50   - I had a 14 inch M1 Pro, the first 14,

00:30:55   but Mary took it.

00:30:57   The kids were using an old Intel MacBook Air

00:30:59   that was like on its last legs.

00:31:01   And so her M1 Air went down to them for schoolwork

00:31:04   and you know, Roblox and stuff.

00:31:07   and then she got my 14 inch MacBook Pro.

00:31:10   I was willing to get her whatever she wanted,

00:31:12   but she really likes the size of the 14 inch.

00:31:16   Like, 'cause she's been on MacBook Airs forever.

00:31:18   Didn't you have an M2 Air?

00:31:20   I still, yeah, so I have an M2 Air,

00:31:23   and I told her, I was like, if you want,

00:31:25   like, what do you want?

00:31:27   And she kinda looked at them both,

00:31:29   and she said she liked the bigger screen of the 14 inch.

00:31:32   Because she went from, for a long time,

00:31:36   she had an LG 4K Ultrafine, like the 21 and a half inch.

00:31:41   And she got away from that

00:31:45   and like just using a notebook as a notebook.

00:31:47   And so she wanted the bigger screen.

00:31:50   She really liked the 14 inch.

00:31:50   So she has the M1 Pro 14 inch.

00:31:53   Like that is still in our house.

00:31:54   It's sitting in the house right now,

00:31:56   like on the kitchen table. - Hold on a second.

00:31:58   I'm lost.

00:31:59   So you had a couple of weeks ago, a Mac Studio,

00:32:02   A 14-inch MacBook Pro M1 and an M2 MacBook Air.

00:32:06   Well, she was using the MacBook Pro.

00:32:08   She's been using it for months now.

00:32:10   Oh, that was when you got the Air.

00:32:13   Yeah, so when I got the M2 Air, I bought it initially to review it.

00:32:17   And then while I had it--

00:32:19   Right.

00:32:19   Like the Intel--

00:32:20   That was when the MacBook Pro--

00:32:21   The Intel Air was just like just falling apart.

00:32:23   I was like, OK.

00:32:24   OK.

00:32:25   Which one, Mary, which one do you want?

00:32:26   And I'll just take whatever you don't because at that time,

00:32:29   it was my secondary computer.

00:32:30   Well, she chose the MacBook Pro, leaving me with the M2 Air as my notebook.

00:32:35   And I love the M2 Air.

00:32:36   It's like an amazing laptop, but it's not enough for my daily.

00:32:39   And so I ended up with a second 14 inch MacBook Pro in the house.

00:32:43   OK, that makes sense.

00:32:45   So you have well, I'm not done.

00:32:47   So you have and you bought a new M1 Pro MacBook Pro.

00:32:53   This is an M2 Pro.

00:32:54   You bought the M2 Pro MacBook Pro.

00:32:57   Yep. OK.

00:32:58   But you also only have one studio display now.

00:33:02   Yes. You had two studio displays.

00:33:05   I did. Why do you now only have one studio?

00:33:07   Because I'm using the MacBook Pro open to the left of the studio display.

00:33:11   Do you like that? I hate that.

00:33:13   I do like it. I'm using it.

00:33:16   I don't like the screen so small when you got it far away.

00:33:19   Yeah, it is.

00:33:20   But the only thing like right now, I have Timery, Todoist and Audio Hijack over there.

00:33:26   And so it's just kind of like a status things

00:33:29   I kind of always want to keep my eye on.

00:33:31   And Zoom's over there, but I think head in at the moment.

00:33:33   And then all of the work on the main stereo display.

00:33:37   I could have definitely used the MacBook Pro in clamshell mode,

00:33:41   but ended up going with this.

00:33:42   And I actually really like it.

00:33:45   The other sort of benefit to this

00:33:48   is it's a much more mainstream setup than what

00:33:52   I've had in a long, long time.

00:33:54   I think there's something to be said for that too.

00:33:56   I mean, don't get me wrong, the Mac Studio was amazing.

00:33:59   I love the 2019 Mac Pro.

00:34:00   I cannot wait to buy another one in like 15 years

00:34:02   when they're super cheap on eBay.

00:34:04   But it's running a, you know,

00:34:08   like a 14-inch MacBook Pro and a studio display, very common.

00:34:11   And so it is nice to kind of be in the world

00:34:14   that a lot more people are in.

00:34:15   Like I've got a Thunderbolt dock and, you know,

00:34:17   kind of in that world where most listeners and readers are

00:34:21   has been, I think it's beneficial to a degree.

00:34:25   Stephen I need you to not listen for a minute I have to ask Federico something

00:34:29   don't worry about it it's just something I'll ask him you don't need to worry

00:34:32   about Federico yes what's he gonna do when that Mac Pro comes out he's gonna

00:34:37   buy it right yeah I know so like it's like oh so good living one computer and

00:34:42   then it's like we're gonna be gonna get to like I don't July it's like ah I've

00:34:46   got to see Mac Pro because it's so powerful and like you know I need it for

00:34:48   my work and yeah by the way living the two computer lifestyle so nice like

00:34:52   what's going to happen. It's gonna do that.

00:34:55   Someone recently asked me on

00:35:00   Mastodon something along the lines of

00:35:02   isn't it ironic that in your in your

00:35:05   line of work you're never going to be

00:35:07   truly satisfied and that hit me hard.

00:35:11   Oh that hurts. Wait, what are you doing?

00:35:13   Oh sorry. Go away. I realized, I realized, so that

00:35:17   hit me real hard. I was like yeah this

00:35:19   person is right but at the same time

00:35:21   At the same time, I realized that there's no one more emblematic than this problem than

00:35:27   Steven Hackett.

00:35:29   Yes, the most unsatisfied of all of us.

00:35:32   Like, we all have this problem.

00:35:35   We all have this problem.

00:35:38   But Steven really has this problem.

00:35:41   I think there's something nice in that feeling when it comes to technology.

00:35:44   Exactly.

00:35:45   Never been satisfied.

00:35:46   Because you're always on the lookout for something more.

00:35:47   Exactly.

00:35:48   We poke fun in good fun, you know, lighthearted fashion at Steven.

00:35:53   But actually, like, I think we're all a little bit,

00:35:56   there's a little Steven inside every one of us,

00:36:00   like in the sense that, in the sense that we, I mean,

00:36:07   it's, it's the nature of our work to always try things and

00:36:11   tweak and, and some people have made that like,

00:36:15   actually their career to constantly tinker and do this kind of stuff. But I think it's

00:36:24   fun. You can overdo it. I guess what I'm trying to say to Mike's point, you can overdo it,

00:36:29   but it's also fun at the same time. But Steven does it in a way that is always like you have

00:36:38   mastered, I think, this process of making an announcement and then flip-flopping on

00:36:47   that announcement. Like you've really, you know, made it your own as your thing, which

00:36:54   we appreciate. That is why ultimately Mike and I were just sad that you didn't tell us

00:37:00   on this show about it. Because we would have been supportive, you know, after some fun,

00:37:07   always we would have been supportive, you know? Yeah, because none of us will ever be satisfied.

00:37:13   Yeah, that's true. One reason it came up on MPU though is that David made a pledge that he was

00:37:19   not going to buy a new Mac in 2023. Which is stupid. He is not going to stick to that.

00:37:25   He's not going to stick to that. It's not going to happen. There's no way. And it did come up

00:37:30   very naturally in the episode because he's like, "We both have two Macs, right, Steven? Like,

00:37:35   Like I know why you had to say it at that moment, like it makes sense.

00:37:38   Yeah.

00:37:39   Anyway, so this Anker wired charger thing...

00:37:43   I forgot what we were talking about.

00:37:45   It's a triangle.

00:37:46   And previously it's been said that cubes were the best shape,

00:37:51   and Anker makes a little charging cube, which I think Federico is a fan of.

00:37:54   Are you going to buy the triangle charger?

00:37:58   No, they are doomed, because the cube is a superior shape, right?

00:38:04   The triangle. I mean, do you think it's a coincidence that everybody inside the pyramids is dead?

00:38:10   Hey, we have a pyramid here. There's lots of people in it.

00:38:13   Yeah, that's true.

00:38:14   No, it doesn't matter. Cubes are the better shape, more optimal, more perfect.

00:38:20   Cubes in history have survived multiple events.

00:38:26   What?

00:38:27   What?

00:38:28   I don't know what that means.

00:38:29   What?

00:38:29   I don't think he knew what that meant.

00:38:31   I have I think that there's a little bit of collusion going on here between Apple and Belkin.

00:38:36   Anchor, sorry.

00:38:36   Don't worry about Belkin, you can forget about them. I think that there's like a little collusion

00:38:44   going on because they've put... You're saying Belkin doesn't matter?

00:38:47   Wow. Wow.

00:38:49   Because they're getting out of the matter standard?

00:38:52   Yeah, but this is like we are seven stories deep now.

00:38:55   Explain it. You didn't need to explain it.

00:38:57   I have a joke to make and we're ruining my timing.

00:39:00   So I think that there's some collusion between Anchor and Apple here, right?

00:39:05   Because they want you to put your AirPods inside of the triangle.

00:39:09   And I feel like if you put it inside of the triangle, the AirPods are just going to go,

00:39:12   like they're going to go missing. It's going to be unexplained.

00:39:14   Kate tells me under this court,

00:39:17   "T'chi pyramids were specifically funerary monuments."

00:39:21   Yeah, exactly. Why do you think they put dead people inside the triangle shape?

00:39:25   Yeah, people are dying to get in.

00:39:26   (mumbles)

00:39:29   Also, just while we're in the Discord,

00:39:31   Fisher Guy says, "The show notes this week

00:39:33   are like more of a mind map."

00:39:35   (laughs)

00:39:36   Which is really good.

00:39:37   I feel like we should start making our show notes.

00:39:39   They should just be mind maps.

00:39:41   We should just see where that takes us.

00:39:43   I have no idea where any chapter markers

00:39:46   are gonna go so far.

00:39:48   You should just make one chapter marker

00:39:50   and just be like, it's not possible,

00:39:52   and then just leave it.

00:39:53   You know, I did that once.

00:39:55   We did a show several years ago that I think it was like all breaking news.

00:39:59   I did like 10 chapters that were all 10 seconds long and it was a sentence like

00:40:04   me apologizing for the lack of chapter markers. It was good.

00:40:08   It was peak chapter marker humor.

00:40:10   Do you think people like that or not? Not like that? Like,

00:40:14   I expect people didn't like that. What do you think?

00:40:17   I don't know. Probably not.

00:40:18   Who could tell?

00:40:19   Big news.

00:40:22   Automation April is back.

00:40:24   Federico, what's going on?

00:40:25   - It's coming back, second annual.

00:40:28   Now, you know, you've done the first annual,

00:40:30   now the second annual.

00:40:31   The Automation April event that we launched last year,

00:40:34   as I promised, I wanted to make it a tradition,

00:40:36   is coming back.

00:40:37   And so for those who missed it last year,

00:40:40   Automation April, it's a month-long event,

00:40:42   all about shortcuts automation.

00:40:43   - The URL, man.

00:40:45   - It's so long.

00:40:46   This URL is 500 words long.

00:40:51   - Maxstories.net/news/coming soon,

00:40:54   the second annual Automation April community event

00:40:56   featuring shortcuts, interviews, Discord, workshops,

00:40:59   and a shortcut contest.

00:41:00   - Jesus, it's the blood,

00:41:02   you can literally go to Automation April doc, like.

00:41:05   - I love this so much.

00:41:07   This is the best URL.

00:41:09   - This is the real John Voorhees move to not shorten it.

00:41:13   Like I would've just been like Automation April 2023.

00:41:16   - I never shortened the URLs either.

00:41:19   I mean, look at my stories.

00:41:20   I never do it.

00:41:21   - I love this.

00:41:22   This is so good.

00:41:23   - I love making jokes in my slugs.

00:41:26   It's always good.

00:41:27   - Well, that's because you're a pro blogger, we're not.

00:41:29   - Oh, they're all like this.

00:41:30   - It's the default behavior of WordPress, guys.

00:41:33   - Yeah.

00:41:34   - Oh, I, look, don't ask me, I ain't no blogger.

00:41:36   - That's true.

00:41:37   - You know what I mean?

00:41:38   - Yeah.

00:41:39   - It just looks funny when it's pasted like that.

00:41:41   Anyway.

00:41:41   - Okay.

00:41:42   - Automation April.

00:41:43   - Coming back, there's gonna be a contest

00:41:45   that's gonna run a little shorter than last year,

00:41:47   but you're still gonna have a couple of weeks

00:41:49   to make a shortcut and submit it.

00:41:51   There's gonna be a web app like last year

00:41:54   at automationinple.com.

00:41:56   You can use your existing club account

00:41:58   or app stories account, or if you're not a member,

00:42:02   you can just create a free account just for this.

00:42:04   Again, all like last year.

00:42:06   A few tweaks to the categories of the contest.

00:42:09   We are replacing the HomeKit category with the HealthKit one

00:42:14   in fact, because we realized it's much easier

00:42:17   to make and share a health kit based shortcut

00:42:20   with other people than a home kit one.

00:42:22   Because with health kit,

00:42:23   you know, the health kit actions in shortcuts,

00:42:27   they adapt to my iPhone and my Apple watch.

00:42:30   But if I don't have the same garage door as you,

00:42:34   there's very little I can do with the shortcut.

00:42:36   (laughing)

00:42:38   - You can come up with my garage door.

00:42:38   - High barrier to entry on those shortcuts.

00:42:41   - Exactly.

00:42:42   So we are replacing the health kit category

00:42:46   with the HomeKit category with the HellKit one.

00:42:48   There's a few updates in the lineup of judges

00:42:51   for the Automation Airport contest.

00:42:54   Notably, we are introducing the winner

00:42:57   of the best overall shortcut from last year.

00:43:01   Jack Welborn is gonna be a judge,

00:43:03   graduating from winner last year to judge this year.

00:43:07   Yeah, thank you.

00:43:08   - Let me ask you a question.

00:43:09   Is that now a prize or is that like,

00:43:11   not necessarily gonna happen?

00:43:13   - Well, it's a perk.

00:43:14   I think it's a perk.

00:43:16   - If you win, you get the option to become--

00:43:18   - You get the option, and mostly just, you know,

00:43:20   Jack will be able to participate again next year.

00:43:22   'Cause I wanna prevent people from winning

00:43:25   multiple years in a row. - That's smart.

00:43:27   - I just wanna, you know, have a little,

00:43:28   a little, you know, different takes on shortcut automation.

00:43:31   - Yeah, I like it.

00:43:32   - And then we're gonna learn from last year.

00:43:34   We're gonna do what worked and not do what didn't work.

00:43:37   So you can expect articles on Mac stories.

00:43:40   I have a pretty sweet shortcut I'm working on.

00:43:44   going to be... Are you going to try and win? Are you like entering the contest? No, no, I'm a judge.

00:43:49   Can you imagine? The winner this year is me, baby! Collusion! I'm the best at shortcuts! I won, I'm the best!

00:43:56   It's gonna be... So there's gonna be articles and max stories, there's gonna be shortcuts on max

00:44:03   stories weekly. I'm gonna do... I really want to do like at least a couple of Automation Academy

00:44:08   lessons for more advanced explanations of shortcuts, especially episodes of App Stories.

00:44:15   We're going to interview some people about shortcuts and what changes in their automation

00:44:19   setup and we're going to do again the workshops in Discord.

00:44:25   Get together, take questions, like technical questions from people about shortcuts and

00:44:30   answer those questions.

00:44:31   Maybe Jack will be able to join us there as well or some other of our judges will need

00:44:35   to, we'll have more details in terms of schedule and plans to share in the future as well as

00:44:41   details for the prizes for the contest.

00:44:46   All of this is kicking off April 3rd.

00:44:49   This is just a little teaser that we wanted to put out today and there's lots more coming

00:44:56   out soon.

00:44:57   I have, like I said, some shortcuts that I've been working on and some more technical explanations

00:45:04   that I'm gonna save for the club,

00:45:06   plus some premier members.

00:45:08   But yeah, we're doing this again,

00:45:10   before WWDC, fun little tradition, and I'm excited.

00:45:14   I love it, and it's a great time of year

00:45:16   because I mean, the spring is like pretty quiet normally.

00:45:19   Nothing else is going, yes, yes.

00:45:21   Now last year this did, we made fun of you for it,

00:45:24   it spread into May, and then I think-

00:45:27   Into May.

00:45:28   Oh, it will again, it will again,

00:45:30   because we need a couple of weeks

00:45:32   to adjudicate all of the different shortcuts.

00:45:34   And people last year, they sent a lot of shortcuts.

00:45:37   - Do you know how many you got last year?

00:45:39   Are you willing to share if you remember?

00:45:40   - Oh, I don't actually remember the full number.

00:45:45   I wanna say that it was hundreds, it was not 1,000,

00:45:50   but it was like, oh gosh, am I getting this wrong?

00:45:55   Am I making this up that it was like 700 or something?

00:46:00   Did I make this up?

00:46:01   I don't know.

00:46:01   - I probably made this up.

00:46:03   - I just assigned John the task to tell us.

00:46:06   - Yes, perfect.

00:46:07   - I can tell you, it was a lot of shortcuts

00:46:10   and we needed to sift through all of them.

00:46:13   I also want to say--

00:46:14   - John replied to the shrug.

00:46:16   - That was not helpful.

00:46:20   - I also wanted to say that if you sent a shortcut last year

00:46:24   and you didn't win in any category,

00:46:27   but you sent it last year already,

00:46:29   But over the past year, maybe you've tweaked the shortcut

00:46:32   and you've changed the shortcut a little,

00:46:34   you can send it again.

00:46:35   I mean, especially because, and I'm very aware of this,

00:46:39   shortcuts hasn't changed a lot over the past year.

00:46:42   There are some new actions, some new things you can do,

00:46:44   but it's very likely that some of your more advanced

00:46:47   shortcuts, you haven't been able to change them so much.

00:46:51   So it's fine.

00:46:52   As long as you didn't win in any existing category

00:46:55   last year, again, I don't wanna have repeat winners,

00:46:57   like the same shortcut to winning over and over and over.

00:47:00   I don't think that's useful to anybody.

00:47:03   But if you sent it last year, you didn't win anything,

00:47:06   hey, send it again, you know, it's fine.

00:47:08   - Real time follow up.

00:47:10   According to maxstories.net,

00:47:13   you had over 200 shortcuts submitted.

00:47:16   - Okay, good. - That's awesome.

00:47:17   - All right, okay, nice, yeah.

00:47:19   - Yeah, I'm glad you're doing it again.

00:47:20   And I know it's a lot of work, but it is so much fun.

00:47:23   So thank you for doing it.

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00:48:56   and relay FM.

00:48:57   It is beyond mirror iPhone rumor season.

00:49:01   We are now in iPhone cad leak season.

00:49:04   - Oh nice.

00:49:05   - My favorite leveling up of the rumors

00:49:07   when we start to get images.

00:49:08   And I know Mike and Jason have talked about this

00:49:11   on upgrade and these stories have been kind of leaking out

00:49:14   over the last couple of weeks.

00:49:15   But I wanna talk about them here in particular

00:49:17   because of the mute switch.

00:49:19   So amongst the rumors of the new iPhone,

00:49:23   there are reports that those buttons on the side,

00:49:26   on the left-hand side,

00:49:27   so the mute ringer switch and the volume up and down,

00:49:30   that those are gonna really get their first big change

00:49:33   in a long time.

00:49:35   I mean, the ringer switch dates back

00:49:36   to the original iPhone in 2007.

00:49:39   It's maybe like the most stable part

00:49:42   of the iPhone design ever.

00:49:45   And- - They even kept the orange.

00:49:47   - Yeah, it's orange.

00:49:48   - Unless some, now some phones it's white, so.

00:49:51   - What?

00:49:52   - Yeah, instead of orange it's white on some phones.

00:49:54   - Huh.

00:49:55   - If you have like some of the product red phones

00:49:58   and I think some of the 5Cs, like the red,

00:50:02   or the kind of red orange they use,

00:50:03   the design of contrast, but.

00:50:05   - Some people would say that the amount of information

00:50:08   that you have is useless.

00:50:10   I would say it is not at all, because I did not know that.

00:50:13   And I would hazard to say most people listening to this show

00:50:16   just went, huh, like me, because nobody knows that

00:50:19   except you, so thank you.

00:50:21   - And so some of these rumors

00:50:23   that these phones are gonna be capacitive,

00:50:26   like touch sensitive buttons,

00:50:28   and that there's like the pressing type mute buttons

00:50:30   I think we've spoken about before,

00:50:31   which is very hard to understand.

00:50:33   Maybe it clicks in and stays there and then clicks back out.

00:50:36   But Federico, I know this morning on Mastodon

00:50:38   you were talking about the mute switch,

00:50:40   and I wanted to see if you would unpack that here for us.

00:50:43   - I was talking and the people attacked me.

00:50:46   Well, hang on, I think you shot first, to be fair.

00:50:49   That's a Star Trek reference.

00:50:51   But then I was attacked.

00:50:52   I was attacked, but I wasn't really.

00:50:53   I just like to say the word attacked.

00:50:55   I think it sounds cool.

00:50:57   He attacked, you know?

00:51:00   So I have thoughts.

00:51:01   I have strong opinions about this, okay?

00:51:06   And I know that I am going to upset a portion

00:51:10   of the listeners, including one of my co-hosts, I think.

00:51:14   And I wanted to say, and don't take this the wrong way,

00:51:18   take this in a very loving way.

00:51:20   I don't care because it's my opinion.

00:51:23   - What does that mean?

00:51:24   You don't care if you upset people,

00:51:26   is that what you're saying?

00:51:27   - Well, it's like, when someone tells you,

00:51:28   well, I don't care.

00:51:30   Like, I'm not being aggressive here.

00:51:32   I'm just saying, I don't care if you disagree with me

00:51:35   because I firmly believe in my opinion.

00:51:37   - Okay.

00:51:38   - And I'm going to explain why my opinion is the best one.

00:51:41   - There it is.

00:51:42   - Okay?

00:51:43   you don't have to be like that, do you?

00:51:45   - Well, I can, I can and I will.

00:51:47   - No, no, no, no, I didn't say you can't be like that.

00:51:51   I said you don't have to, right?

00:51:54   These are two different things.

00:51:56   - Come on, this is what people want from this podcast

00:51:59   and you know it.

00:52:00   It's like, oh no, let's just have a serious conversation.

00:52:03   No, it's opinions, okay?

00:52:06   All right, so this idea,

00:52:08   so we've been talking about this idea

00:52:10   of Apple bringing a solid state button

00:52:11   instead of the physical ringer switch to the iPhone for months.

00:52:16   And there are people who have welcomed the idea and there have been other people

00:52:19   like you to an extent, Michael, firmly rejecting this idea of...

00:52:25   Can you point to where I firmly rejected?

00:52:27   Well, on upgrade for example.

00:52:28   I didn't firmly reject. I've never firmly rejected.

00:52:31   Okay, well maybe it's my impression.

00:52:34   You have concerns, but I can tell you that there are people,

00:52:37   there are other people on Mastodon and in the online places firmly rejecting the idea

00:52:44   of the ringer switch going away. Okay. And I tend to see, and I tend to see this argument

00:52:51   develop over, you know, across the online places of like, oh, but if, if the ringer

00:52:58   switch goes away, how will I be able to feel the mute switch in my pocket?

00:53:04   Yeah.

00:53:05   This is the single most absurd theory I've heard in a long time.

00:53:11   Theory of what?

00:53:13   This idea that a lot of people feel the mute switch in their pockets.

00:53:21   Who said a lot of people?

00:53:23   Well, the people who firmly believe in this idea seem to, you know,

00:53:27   co-operate with one another and say, "Oh, there's a lot of people like us."

00:53:31   And...

00:53:32   There's literally dozens of us.

00:53:34   - There are, exactly, you get my point.

00:53:36   There are multiple layers to this.

00:53:39   First is the feeling of the mute switch

00:53:41   and the other is obviously you're using a phone

00:53:43   without a case.

00:53:45   Because if, you know, I would say that if you're able

00:53:49   to quickly feel the ringer switch

00:53:51   is because your phone doesn't have a case on.

00:53:54   - I don't agree with that.

00:53:55   - Okay.

00:53:55   - I mean, it's easier when you don't have a case on,

00:53:57   but when I used to wear a case,

00:53:58   I used to be able to feel it.

00:53:59   - So please tell me, please tell me with the leather,

00:54:02   with the Apple leather case, for example.

00:54:03   - I've never used those, I use the silicone cases.

00:54:05   - Well, see, so like, I just feel like-

00:54:08   - Silicone cases. - Most people would find it

00:54:11   challenging to feel this,

00:54:13   but there's two layers to this.

00:54:15   - And the Apple cases are just like one type.

00:54:18   A lot of people use cases that are much bulkier

00:54:21   than the Apple ones. - Exactly, or cheaper

00:54:23   than the Apple ones.

00:54:25   So first of all, and I said it before,

00:54:28   this idea of, oh, I use my phone without a case.

00:54:31   This is by and large, I'm just gonna read straight

00:54:34   from my notes, this is a rich nerd delusion.

00:54:37   - This is, why?

00:54:38   What does that mean?

00:54:39   - Because most people who spend a lot of money on a phone,

00:54:44   they wanna put it immediately in a case.

00:54:48   - Okay.

00:54:48   - This idea that, oh, AppleCare is my case, no.

00:54:51   - That's not, I don't even have AppleCare.

00:54:53   - Okay, so you just like to live dangerously.

00:54:55   - AppleCare's a scam.

00:54:56   No, I've never broken an iPhone, except the one

00:54:59   Well good for you!

00:55:00   I quote unquote dropped to get the screen replaced.

00:55:03   Yeah, what's that like?

00:55:04   But you gotta...

00:55:05   Would you agree?

00:55:06   Would you agree that most people just,

00:55:10   they take the phone and they put it in the case right away?

00:55:13   Definitely.

00:55:13   Because I used to be that person.

00:55:15   But like to go back to what you were saying before,

00:55:16   I was that person and I could still use it because I used the silicon case

00:55:20   because I'm not made of money and buying the leather case.

00:55:22   Would you believe that you are one of the few that do this?

00:55:25   Oh, 100%.

00:55:26   I don't think so.

00:55:26   Okay, good. All right, cool.

00:55:27   So we are in agreement.

00:55:28   This is... when I'm saying the thing that I'm concerned about is you won't be able to feel the thing

00:55:34   is that's just a thing that I do, so it'll bother me.

00:55:37   I don't think everyone's doing what I'm doing, which is like always... you know, you go into the theater

00:55:41   and they're like "make sure your phone's on silent" and I can just reach into my pocket and check.

00:55:45   Okay, well let's get to the second layer of this ringer switch onion.

00:55:51   This idea that you just feel the mute switch.

00:55:55   Yeah.

00:55:56   This is where I'm getting stuck upon.

00:55:59   I would say that 90% of people in my life,

00:56:04   you know what, I'm actually gonna say 99% of people

00:56:08   in my life that I know in real life,

00:56:10   everybody I know, rightfully so, keeps their phone silent.

00:56:15   - Yes, that's the only thing you should do.

00:56:19   - You don't wanna be the guy with, you know,

00:56:22   why, if you don't have silent mode on,

00:56:25   And again, there are exceptions.

00:56:27   I can understand why, for example,

00:56:30   an elder relative needs to have--

00:56:32   (laughing)

00:56:34   - Ground down by the opinions of the internet.

00:56:37   - You know, I am getting, I am just statistically speaking,

00:56:42   most people should keep their phone silent.

00:56:46   And especially, let's make it even more precise,

00:56:51   especially the people who listen to this podcast.

00:56:55   I would wager they have their phone silent because they have AirPods,

00:56:59   because they have an Apple Watch,

00:57:01   because they have an iPhone with the haptic feedback thing.

00:57:03   They can feel the phone is ringing.

00:57:04   And we all get so many notifications, like who wants their phone to just go like...

00:57:08   Exactly.

00:57:09   How often do most people really need to dig in there, in their pocket,

00:57:18   and be like, "Let me check the mute switch."

00:57:21   Who is doing this?

00:57:23   Who is doing...

00:57:24   Okay, Mike, why are you doing this?

00:57:28   I just said it, right? You go to the theatre or something, right?

00:57:31   Or you go to a movie and they're like, make sure your phone's on silent

00:57:34   and I just reach in and I can just do it. I could just do it by feel.

00:57:38   All right, cool.

00:57:40   Let me ask you.

00:57:40   You do this because it's been available for a long time, forever on the phone.

00:57:45   You've gotten used to it.

00:57:47   OK. Yep.

00:57:49   Don't you think it's a little bit of a waste of

00:57:52   physical space on an iPhone to have a switch that you and few others at the theater, they

00:58:02   feel where, whereas the vast majority of people keep their phones silent all the time and

00:58:11   are at this point maybe just used to doing a software based check-in with silent mode

00:58:19   like they do on the iPad, like they do on Apple watch.

00:58:22   Oh, I 100% would prefer there to be no switch at all.

00:58:25   And I could, my phone could just always be in silent. Like I'm not arguing for,

00:58:29   I'm not arguing that there's a switch.

00:58:31   I'm arguing that what they are rumored to be replacing it with is worse.

00:58:35   Let me ask you, are you sure that in this argument, deep down,

00:58:41   you don't already agree with me?

00:58:43   About what?

00:58:45   Deep down, you're in love with him.

00:58:47   That's obvious.

00:58:49   You know, you know, this is actually a strategy that I am.

00:58:51   - What I agree, I'm agreeing with the point

00:58:53   that you're making right now, which is like,

00:58:55   having a mute switch at all is not necessary.

00:58:59   I personally would prefer there to be no switch,

00:59:03   no button, nothing, and if I want to turn my phone

00:59:07   into loud mode, I just go to control center.

00:59:09   Like that's what I would prefer.

00:59:10   - Okay, good, all right, cool.

00:59:11   - But I don't like this idea of like,

00:59:13   if you're gonna have one, what they're rumored

00:59:15   to be replacing it with, which is a capacitive button

00:59:18   that has haptic feedback is worse in every possible way than what is currently on the phone.

00:59:23   Well, have you tried it?

00:59:24   But I can tell you, here's what I know what's going to happen, right?

00:59:27   So here's my thing.

00:59:28   Yeah.

00:59:29   They're going to say to me, like, I'm in somewhere,

00:59:32   like, please make sure your phone is on silent, right?

00:59:34   So I'm going to want to check that.

00:59:36   So like, I'll have to press, I'll press the button.

00:59:38   And then like, now I've turned it onto loud mode and I press it again to silence it.

00:59:44   Like, I just don't like this.

00:59:46   You know what it reminds me of?

00:59:48   It reminds me two things, USB-A and AirPods Pro 2.

00:59:52   Right? So you know like that old idea that every time you want to plug a USB

00:59:56   into the port you have to do it twice, once and then again and then again or

01:00:00   like two or three times because you always get it wrong?

01:00:02   I've been noticing this recently with AirPods Pro 2 where I'm in the street

01:00:05   and I'm like... because the adaptive transparency is so

01:00:09   good now that sometimes I think I have noise cancellation on

01:00:12   and the only way to check that is to do the thing and then I turn noise

01:00:17   cancellation, then it's a cycle. Alright, so let me tell you why your concerns are misplaced,

01:00:23   and why in two minutes you're gonna be in agreement with me. If you're gonna tell me I have to

01:00:28   look at my phone, like, that's fine, but then there's no point putting the button, that's what

01:00:32   I'm saying. If I have to look at the screen of my phone to see if I'm on silent mode, don't put the

01:00:36   - Well, let me explain, but let me explain.

01:00:40   I think so far we have assumed

01:00:45   that this replacement for this ringer switch

01:00:49   is gonna be a ringer switch.

01:00:51   I think there's a much better opportunity for Apple here

01:00:54   to take that physical space up there

01:00:57   in the upper left corner of the iPhone

01:00:59   and do something much more interesting with it.

01:01:02   I wanna believe, and you know,

01:01:06   pretty convinced actually that Apple realized, look,

01:01:10   we have this space here and people are used to reach out

01:01:14   to this button here.

01:01:15   But most people we have discovered, you know, 15 years,

01:01:19   whatever, into the iPhone's existence,

01:01:21   that most people keep their phone silent anyway.

01:01:23   Like that's just modern life and how it is,

01:01:26   a modern social etiquette, whatever.

01:01:29   I think there's a much better opportunity for Apple here

01:01:31   to do a couple of things.

01:01:32   First of all, to communicate in a couple of different ways,

01:01:35   whether silent mode is on or off.

01:01:37   You could consider a control center widget tile thing,

01:01:42   or even for those more preoccupied than most people,

01:01:47   whether it's on or off, a status bar icon.

01:01:50   Like I could imagine a little status bar indicator

01:01:53   that tells you, hey, silent mode is actually off,

01:01:56   your phone is gonna make a sound.

01:01:57   So they can consider control center

01:01:59   or even a status bar icon.

01:02:02   But I think there's a lot of potential here

01:02:04   for a brand new type of button on the iPhone, think of it like, you know, it's like the action

01:02:11   button on the Apple Watch Ultra. There is a programmable button that you can use to save

01:02:18   time on your phone to do whatever asterisk you want to do with that button. The asterisk being

01:02:25   whatever within, you know, certain types of actions that Apple has pre-programmed for you.

01:02:31   So for example, imagine if you could press the button for immediate flashlight,

01:02:37   press the button to open a messages conversation,

01:02:40   press the button for Siri. Well, no, Siri is already on the other button.

01:02:43   Press the button for a shortcut, press the button for a camera.

01:02:46   Like, imagine all the different things you could do with it.

01:02:49   Imagine if it sounds lovely.

01:02:51   And the other thing I want to mention is,

01:02:54   by making silent mode rather than being tied to a physical switch,

01:03:01   If they are going to go the software way with it, it becomes a lot more useful and a lot more flexible when you consider how focus modes and shortcuts could integrate with it.

01:03:12   Now you would be able to have a focus mode where your phone actually makes sounds in certain situations, but where you must absolutely hear if someone is calling you.

01:03:24   And the opposite is also true. You could also turn it off with a shortcut or with a focus mode.

01:03:29   So I think the change I want to see is not just, yeah, we redid the physical switch,

01:03:38   which by the way, I would still welcome if it's still a physical switch.

01:03:43   If it's only for the ringer switch, I'm sorry, because I find the current design,

01:03:48   and I have always found the current design impossible to operate with the case on.

01:03:55   I'm trying now with my finger and I just cannot toggle it.

01:03:59   I just cannot do it.

01:04:01   Interesting.

01:04:02   But second, I want to hope that they actually go beyond this

01:04:06   and that their thinking is, well, let's actually do something a little more useful and fun with that spot.

01:04:13   We're going to do brand new buttons and we're going to let people choose what to do with it.

01:04:18   It would be very nice if that was the case.

01:04:21   I told you.

01:04:22   I will say though, I have a thing I had a thought today, right?

01:04:25   So these are in theory, you're going to get three capacitive buttons, right?

01:04:29   On the phone cases are going to be worse.

01:04:32   They're going to have three cutouts, right?

01:04:34   If it's capacitive, it needs to know that your fingers touching it to operate.

01:04:39   So you're going to have cases.

01:04:40   It's going to be full of cutouts.

01:04:41   You know, we're getting used to that.

01:04:45   We got used to many things in life.

01:04:46   It's won't kill you to have two more cutouts, you know, whatever.

01:04:51   I mean in one kill you don't use a case. I would like to believe that it would be better.

01:04:56   I hope it will be better, which is why I'm not like against it. Like I'm willing to see what they've got.

01:04:59   But I think the idea, the thing that I've had of like just being able to reach into my pocket and tell that my phone is easily on silent.

01:05:06   I think that that would just have to change. But I would be willing to give that up if I could have more software control over what is like, what makes noise and what doesn't.

01:05:15   That would be cool.

01:05:16   I think it's super interesting.

01:05:19   They could go a bunch of different ways

01:05:21   and the fact that it has been the same for so long,

01:05:24   like it's just really wild to think about.

01:05:27   And I think if we look at the iPhone 7,

01:05:30   was it the 7 that was the first

01:05:31   with the capacitive home button?

01:05:33   I think it was.

01:05:34   Yes.

01:05:36   You know, that is an interesting example

01:05:38   because it was a physical switch that was capacitive

01:05:42   and they did the Taptic Engine and stuff

01:05:44   that didn't last very long, right?

01:05:46   'Cause it was the seven, the eight,

01:05:48   and then we went to the 10.

01:05:50   But I think they did a pretty good job with that.

01:05:52   I mean, it was a little weird to get used to,

01:05:56   but I think, you know, it did the job

01:05:58   and it was, I think, a lot more robust

01:06:00   than the previous home buttons.

01:06:02   I mean, I think everyone at some point or another

01:06:05   had experienced a home button failure

01:06:07   on an iPhone before that.

01:06:09   So they can do it.

01:06:11   It's just gonna be interesting to see what they do.

01:06:15   It also reminds me of the iPad.

01:06:18   For a while, the first several iterations,

01:06:20   the iPad had a switch on the side,

01:06:24   and you could, eventually, you could use it

01:06:27   for either orientation lock, which is how I used it,

01:06:31   or mute ringer.

01:06:33   And I don't think orientation locks matters nearly

01:06:38   as much on the phone as it does on the iPad,

01:06:40   But there is some precedence for Apple having a Switch

01:06:43   and then having software to like tell the Switch what to do.

01:06:46   - Nice good memory.

01:06:48   - Yeah, so I am hopeful that we do get

01:06:50   some more customization like you're talking about Federico.

01:06:52   I think it'd be really interesting

01:06:54   and the Apple Watch Ultra is right there

01:06:55   and you know, actually button it up, that's what I say.

01:06:58   - I'm not gonna like when I can't change the volume

01:07:03   of my iPhone just by like pressing the buttons

01:07:06   through my jeans or whatever though.

01:07:08   That's gonna be annoying too.

01:07:09   So you have a finger that will have to physically touch the button, right? To change the volume?

01:07:12   Yeah.

01:07:13   Yeah, and maybe there'll be issues with like gloves and other stuff. We just don't know yet.

01:07:17   Although we'll just have to see. For sure. Yeah, with gloves.

01:07:20   Yeah. Although, I mean, I think a lot of people, including me, like even my like pretty good winter gloves,

01:07:26   have, you know, the index fingers have like a passive material sewn on now.

01:07:30   Yeah, I don't have that. I don't like the way that looks.

01:07:33   Yeah, well, I mean.

01:07:34   It's like very ET, like weird little pat on your finger or something.

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01:09:35   - Have you guys heard of artificial intelligence?

01:09:40   Have you come across this before?

01:09:42   - I think I, is it the thing,

01:09:45   is it the thing that they use in video games

01:09:47   so that the goombas can kill you?

01:09:49   - Yes, so artificial intelligence was created

01:09:52   by Shigeru Miyamoto in 19--

01:09:54   - Right, right, right.

01:09:55   Yeah, yeah, I'm familiar, I'm familiar.

01:09:57   Yes. So Stephen, I think put this in the document.

01:10:01   I have felt like the AI things we have out there,

01:10:04   like everything from mid journey to chat, GPT, everything in between.

01:10:08   They're interesting. Obviously with Bing, they've been productized,

01:10:11   but Microsoft has announced Microsoft 365 co-pilot.

01:10:17   Co-pilot you may recognize that's branding from GitHub, which Microsoft owns,

01:10:20   where their AI can like help you write code. And some people love it.

01:10:25   Some people hate it.

01:10:26   That's not the debate today.

01:10:28   But they're bringing like features to Microsoft 365.

01:10:33   And this means that when you are in an Office application,

01:10:38   so say that you are in Word or you're in Excel or PowerPoint

01:10:43   or their new Notion competitor kind of is actually in beta,

01:10:48   I think as of today.

01:10:49   - I did not know that was a thing that they did,

01:10:51   but it makes perfect sense.

01:10:52   - Yeah.

01:10:53   - Yeah, it's actually pretty nice, yeah.

01:10:54   - Yeah, it looks awesome.

01:10:56   I wanna play with it.

01:10:57   But they're bringing this into their apps.

01:11:01   And you may think if you're of a certain age,

01:11:03   Steven, this sounds like Clippy.

01:11:05   It looks like you're trying to write a letter.

01:11:07   Let me help you.

01:11:08   Hopefully it's better than that, but it's very similar.

01:11:12   - What if Clippy had a brain?

01:11:14   - Yeah, exactly.

01:11:16   What if Clippy was powered by thousands of GPUs in the cloud?

01:11:19   And so you can use within the applications,

01:11:24   these tools to complete CERNet tasks?

01:11:27   - Oh my God, this is just Notion.

01:11:29   - Yeah, it's literally Notion.

01:11:31   Yes, it's literally Notion.

01:11:32   - They just made Notion.

01:11:33   Man, Microsoft are relentless right now.

01:11:37   - They are ruthless, yes.

01:11:39   - I kind of, it's interesting.

01:11:41   I kind of like it in a way,

01:11:42   kind of don't like it in other ways,

01:11:43   but like it is fascinating to watch.

01:11:45   And it's just like, who would have thought,

01:11:48   I'm sorry, I'm stepping on your topic right now.

01:11:49   - No, no, you're good.

01:11:50   - But like who would have thought

01:11:52   that we'd be back here again,

01:11:53   where Microsoft are like dangerous.

01:11:57   You know, it's just like they have all of it, you know,

01:12:00   like they are ready to go and they're going to gobble gobble

01:12:03   gobble all the competition.

01:12:05   Yeah.

01:12:06   Yeah, and as Kate points out, Notion has AI features too.

01:12:08   It's in a lot of places now.

01:12:09   Yeah, but it kind of doesn't matter, right?

01:12:11   Like this is the Microsoft thing right now.

01:12:12   It's like why teams have destroyed Slack.

01:12:14   It doesn't matter that employees--

01:12:17   sorry, it doesn't matter that other apps have it.

01:12:19   The issue is Microsoft come in and say, well,

01:12:22   you're already paying for this.

01:12:23   So we can give it for free or basically free.

01:12:26   So it doesn't matter what their competitors have.

01:12:29   Microsoft are able to take up so much ground right now

01:12:31   because business runs on Office anyway.

01:12:34   And so it's like, if they even have a mildly good version

01:12:38   of it, it's going to be better for your business

01:12:41   than if you use whatever, right?

01:12:43   So that's what they're doing and it's genius.

01:12:45   - Yeah, and so we have a collection of links

01:12:46   in the show notes.

01:12:47   You can go and read through them.

01:12:51   It's about some of the things that this can do.

01:12:54   So you can do sort of the,

01:12:56   hey, I need a letter that says this and this style

01:13:00   and it will put something together.

01:13:01   But you can also give co-pilot documents

01:13:06   or access to documents and it will summarize them.

01:13:09   It can be present on a Teams meeting

01:13:14   and give you notes from the meeting,

01:13:18   like all sorts of stuff.

01:13:20   And this is, it's a very small program right now.

01:13:24   Like I don't think anyone just has access to it yet,

01:13:27   but it's gonna be coming.

01:13:29   And it's interesting to me because it's Microsoft.

01:13:33   And like you said,

01:13:34   Microsoft is like eating its Wheaties all of a sudden.

01:13:36   It's like ready to go.

01:13:38   But this is where I think a lot of, you know,

01:13:41   sort of regular people who don't listen to tech podcasts,

01:13:44   who just have, you know,

01:13:45   regular jobs that they use Office all day, every day,

01:13:48   it's gonna be their first experience

01:13:50   with some of this technology,

01:13:51   and that feels like a really big deal to me.

01:13:54   It feels like, okay,

01:13:56   and being with sort of step one of this,

01:13:58   but being as really small,

01:13:59   so office I think is much bigger,

01:14:01   this is where people are just gonna come across this

01:14:05   during their day and use it.

01:14:07   And they may not fully understand what it can or can't do

01:14:11   or what it is or isn't good at.

01:14:14   I think that will have to be,

01:14:16   that will have to be shaken out

01:14:18   within organizations over time.

01:14:20   Like there will be organizations,

01:14:22   I got a handful of emails from various people,

01:14:25   like, yeah, I'm sure you saw this,

01:14:28   we will not be turning this on in our organization, right?

01:14:31   'Cause they don't want a co-pilot

01:14:33   to have access to their data or whatever.

01:14:35   So there's lots of complications here,

01:14:37   but it seems like a really big deal

01:14:40   that this is gonna be baked into office.

01:14:42   and it does kind of lead to the question

01:14:46   because Google Docs has the basic things as well.

01:14:49   Although if you've played with any of Google's

01:14:52   or like watched the video on BARD,

01:14:53   like clearly they're behind OpenAI and Microsoft,

01:14:56   but do we need this in numbers and pages of keynote too?

01:15:00   Is this something that makes Office more attractive to y'all

01:15:04   kind of want to get the temperature on it?

01:15:06   - I think the Apple discussion is actually

01:15:10   maybe a discussion we should have separately

01:15:12   at some point in the future, but like,

01:15:14   the answer is probably yes.

01:15:16   I know, the answer is yes, right?

01:15:17   Like, all of their competitors will be adding

01:15:20   these features, Apple have to find a way to do it

01:15:22   in a way that makes sense for them.

01:15:24   But like, this co-pilot thing in Office

01:15:27   is the first AI tool that I have been excited about,

01:15:32   interested in, and makes sense to me.

01:15:37   - Yep.

01:15:38   Because what I, you know,

01:15:41   Cortex systems have heard me talk about this before.

01:15:43   I've spoke about other shows too, right?

01:15:45   Like what I don't like about some of the stuff

01:15:46   that exists out there currently,

01:15:48   is it is just using a model,

01:15:53   which is generated from other people's work

01:15:55   to then like people just like,

01:15:56   oh, make me this thing.

01:15:57   And it's just like, makes a thing, right?

01:15:59   Like show me an image of Steve Jobs on InSpace.

01:16:02   It's like, somebody could draw that.

01:16:04   And like, instead you've just asked this thing

01:16:06   to just spit it out.

01:16:07   and it's just like creating this new work

01:16:10   based on other people's work,

01:16:12   where a lot of the features that we've seen in Copilot,

01:16:15   it's like using the system,

01:16:17   which yes has been pulled from text,

01:16:20   but I think text on the web is slightly different

01:16:22   when so much of it's about SEO anyway,

01:16:23   but it's a whole different conversation.

01:16:26   Like this kind of stuff is like taking my work

01:16:31   and using this tool to make it something else.

01:16:34   Like here's a presentation I have,

01:16:37   make a PowerPoint for me.

01:16:39   It's like, this is all, I'm in the loop here, 100%, right?

01:16:42   Or like, here's my spreadsheet.

01:16:45   Can you organize this into some charts and stuff?

01:16:49   It's like just taking out the work

01:16:51   where I was otherwise gonna need to be like,

01:16:53   Googling to get the formulas

01:16:55   where I don't understand how to use them.

01:16:57   Like this to me, makes a lot of sense

01:17:00   for the kinds of things that I want to be doing.

01:17:04   And it also has, I think, significantly to somewhat less

01:17:09   of the ethical concerns that I have

01:17:12   around where this information comes from

01:17:15   and what it's replacing.

01:17:17   - Yes, I feel the same way.

01:17:19   - Yeah, 'cause in a way it has a fence around it, right?

01:17:22   It's like, okay, I want you to look at these documents

01:17:25   and synthesize something new out of them.

01:17:28   You know, we've all passed examples around on Mastodon

01:17:31   and Discord and Slack of like,

01:17:32   Look at this wildly inaccurate thing that ChatGPT said,

01:17:36   or now Bard because Bard makes ChatGPT

01:17:40   look like a Rhodes scholar.

01:17:42   But I think you're right that this is like different

01:17:46   and I think it's exciting.

01:17:48   I do think that there's potential fallout

01:17:52   and I think there's potential concern

01:17:56   in a lot of organizations about what it will do

01:17:58   and are people gonna be placed by this robot or something.

01:18:00   I don't know any of the answers to that.

01:18:02   I'm not smart enough to know any of that,

01:18:04   but I do think this is like a fundamental shift where, okay,

01:18:07   basically the world runs on Office.

01:18:10   And once this is widely available in organizations,

01:18:14   it is a change.

01:18:17   And I think for me, up until this point,

01:18:22   it's been part of me,

01:18:24   part of my thinking on the AI tools that we have,

01:18:28   I kind of been like, well, this is like a fad.

01:18:30   Like this is like the new chat bot, right?

01:18:34   And, or the new whatever, you know,

01:18:37   we've been in this industry long enough,

01:18:38   we've seen fad technology come and go.

01:18:43   And it's like, okay, Microsoft entering the ring

01:18:45   is really interesting.

01:18:46   Making it a feature of Office 365,

01:18:49   that's a lot harder to unwind than,

01:18:52   oh, we made this like weird web tool

01:18:54   and then it just goes away one day

01:18:56   because it's not fashionable anymore.

01:18:58   Like this is a bigger commitment than anything we've seen

01:19:03   from any of these companies so far.

01:19:06   And that makes me kind of step back and think like,

01:19:09   okay, this is more important than maybe I felt like it was

01:19:14   up until now.

01:19:16   Does that make sense?

01:19:17   Is that track?

01:19:17   - Yeah.

01:19:18   And I think it's especially if you're someone else,

01:19:22   if you're Apple,

01:19:24   and maybe we should save the discussion for another time,

01:19:26   but I think it's especially scary when you consider

01:19:28   how they're bringing this all together.

01:19:30   Like it's not just like individually

01:19:32   Word, PowerPoint, and Excel,

01:19:33   but it's like Outlook is gonna have all of this.

01:19:36   Outlook Mobile is gonna have all of this.

01:19:38   And they've sort of been on this mission

01:19:40   for the past two years or so

01:19:42   to reinvent like the very structure of the Office ecosystem

01:19:46   so that everything is gonna be based on components.

01:19:48   And all of these components are gonna come together

01:19:50   into the notion copycat immediately that they made loop,

01:19:55   which is in beta preview today.

01:19:57   But I think, like you look at it today and it looks like a Notion copy,

01:20:00   doesn't have an API, doesn't, not nearly as flexible as Notion,

01:20:05   but it's scary when you consider that loop is tying

01:20:09   together apps and services that hundreds of

01:20:14   millions, billions of users rely

01:20:19   on. So you can...

01:20:20   Anyone in professional work is using Office, at least some somehow, right?

01:20:25   Even people like me and Mike have Office installed because we get sent Word documents we have

01:20:29   to deal with, right?

01:20:30   And like...

01:20:31   We all do.

01:20:32   We all do.

01:20:33   And it's like, you know, you're saying about the API, Federico doesn't need an API because

01:20:36   it just pulls from Office.

01:20:37   Exactly.

01:20:38   Like, why does it need an API?

01:20:40   Like that's how then... that's what they're saying.

01:20:42   That's what they would say.

01:20:43   And I agree with them, like for their strategy of like, no, don't use a different whatever

01:20:48   app, just use our one.

01:20:50   And Adam from the Discord saying, "Open doc finally realized in many ways yes."

01:20:56   This is actually the vision of like, what if everything was based on components and

01:21:00   you can mix and match these components into this sort of amorphous type of document that

01:21:05   is not a document but also is a live document with multiple components from other places?

01:21:09   Yes, that's exactly the idea.

01:21:12   But when you, on top of this, when you consider how they're touching upon email with Outlook

01:21:18   personal to-do's with Microsoft to-do is going to be compatible with this.

01:21:23   I think they've actually built a pretty...

01:21:26   They are building a very compelling ecosystem for big companies, but also small to medium

01:21:34   businesses.

01:21:35   I think this is going to be very compelling as a strategy to be like, "Okay, I guess we

01:21:39   can have to-do's and we can have projects and we can have loop and office and email

01:21:42   going into Outlook and everything comes together and then we can chat in Teams."

01:21:48   there's AI to help make sense of all of these along the way.

01:21:51   - Yep. - Eh, you know.

01:21:53   - Co-pilot's there to just help you out all the time.

01:21:56   It's like, to touch on something you were saying

01:21:59   a moment ago, Steven, about like the fad nature of it,

01:22:02   like I understand that feeling, but at the same time,

01:22:06   I feel like right now we are,

01:22:09   and this is not an original thought at all,

01:22:11   but I'm just gonna say it anyway,

01:22:12   like we are living in a truly unprecedented time

01:22:14   in technology, like the speed at which these AI tools are

01:22:20   improving.

01:22:21   I can't think of any technology that was introduced

01:22:24   and then improved so dramatically

01:22:26   in such a short space of time.

01:22:27   Yeah.

01:22:28   It's obscene how big a leap that it has jumped in less than five--

01:22:33   less than six months.

01:22:35   It's like an unbelievable thing.

01:22:38   It's really wild.

01:22:39   And I also wanted to share with you both--

01:22:41   I had lunch with a friend yesterday.

01:22:42   we talk about this stuff like everyone is now, right?

01:22:44   You have any kind of, anybody in technology,

01:22:47   everyone's just talking about this stuff.

01:22:48   I had a realization that I think if you guys agree with me,

01:22:53   you will be clearly as uncomfortable with.

01:22:55   Because of these tools, right?

01:22:58   Like realistic text can be generated so easily.

01:23:03   I'm sure that you both like me get lots of,

01:23:08   not spam email, but like that middle ground email

01:23:13   where it's like, hey, here's a pitch.

01:23:15   Hey, here's a thing.

01:23:16   Hey, here's a thing.

01:23:17   I think within five years,

01:23:19   I will not be able to use email anymore

01:23:22   because when people hook these bots up to email.

01:23:25   - It's game over.

01:23:27   - It's impossible.

01:23:27   I won't be able to open my email inbox.

01:23:29   I will be getting hundreds of emails a day

01:23:31   that will look real.

01:23:32   - The worst ones that I get right now

01:23:35   is like it looks like it's a threaded reply.

01:23:39   And so SaneBox, which is a sponsor of some other stuff I do,

01:23:42   like SaneBox misses it because it's like,

01:23:46   read the phone call we had last week.

01:23:48   And like they do like fake threading in the email

01:23:50   and it's wild.

01:23:53   - I just got one, literally just got one.

01:23:55   Hey, Connected, my name's Dan.

01:23:57   I'm a tech founder in the podcasting space.

01:23:59   You are trying to make a real impact

01:24:02   in how podcasts could land.

01:24:03   higher quality brand deals.

01:24:05   Like I get this stuff constantly.

01:24:08   And at the point where these two things can happen of one,

01:24:12   you can have AI writing them.

01:24:13   And then two, AI learning the ways

01:24:16   to break through to my inbox.

01:24:18   - Our email interactions in the future

01:24:20   are gonna be like the Rorschach test

01:24:22   from the first scene in Blade Runner.

01:24:23   We're gonna need to evaluate whether the incoming messages

01:24:26   from an AI bot or from a real person.

01:24:29   - Yeah, genuinely, I just don't think

01:24:31   that I will be able to use email anymore.

01:24:34   I think I'll have to do something else.

01:24:37   - You know, there's gonna be services

01:24:38   that are gonna scan your inbox for messages

01:24:41   that were sent to you from other AIs.

01:24:43   - Yeah, but what I'm saying, I could see that,

01:24:45   but I also just don't think it's gonna work.

01:24:47   - Probably not.

01:24:48   - As Steven just said, we all use a tool, right,

01:24:53   which finds this stuff and gets rid of it,

01:24:55   but then people trick it until they,

01:24:57   like it's like a cat and mouse game, right?

01:24:59   - Yeah.

01:25:00   Eventually these tools learn to realize these things,

01:25:03   but then you just do something else.

01:25:04   So like, I just don't think that it's gonna be,

01:25:07   I think the open nature of email

01:25:10   will crumble to this kind of technology.

01:25:12   - We'll see.

01:25:13   I mean, there's so many knock-on effects from--

01:25:17   - It's touching everything.

01:25:18   - Yeah, and like, I don't think anyone,

01:25:20   I mean, I think, I can speak for all three of us,

01:25:23   none of us are experts in this field,

01:25:25   but I think even if you are an expert in this field,

01:25:27   this is new territory.

01:25:28   And it's just, uh, accelerating, like you said, Mike, really, really pretty quickly.

01:25:34   So I've decided also that I'm like, I'm giving into it now.

01:25:38   Like I'm now trying to find the things that I find interesting.

01:25:40   Cause like, I can't just keep resisting this forever because this is technology now.

01:25:45   So like, I'm trying to open myself up to this and like, I'm now like, all right,

01:25:49   so this, I found one thing that I find interesting, which is copilot.

01:25:53   So there can be interesting things to me here.

01:25:56   Now I've just got to find more of them.

01:25:57   I started paying for a chat GPT plus.

01:26:01   - What do you use it for?

01:26:02   - It's excellent for editing or like grammar checking,

01:26:07   for example.

01:26:07   - Okay.

01:26:09   - You see, it's what you were saying about like,

01:26:12   this is my content and I'm using AI to do something helpful

01:26:16   that my human brain cannot do.

01:26:18   But I don't feel sort of, well, it's always been--

01:26:21   - You're not saying, hey GPT four, write me an article

01:26:25   to introduce automation.

01:26:26   - The creation aspects that I'm uncomfortable with.

01:26:28   Now, technically speaking, the editing aspect

01:26:32   is also powered by text that was lifted

01:26:35   by other people's texts, but it's the illusion

01:26:39   that you're not breaking with your own content, I think.

01:26:42   So yeah, I'm giving into it now because there's like,

01:26:46   what you just said, like, what's the point?

01:26:48   This is our life now.

01:26:49   So you either get on with the times or you can,

01:26:54   or not, but you're gonna...

01:26:56   - I mean, I could choose to be grumpy about this forever

01:26:59   if I want to, but I just don't, you know me,

01:27:01   I just don't like to be that way.

01:27:03   - Plenty of blogs and podcasts by grumpy people.

01:27:06   - And so I'm just like, I'm trying to find the things

01:27:10   that are interesting to me that I feel are less

01:27:12   ethically gray, you know?

01:27:16   And this is one of them.

01:27:18   Like, you know, I was thinking the other day, right,

01:27:20   you know that whisper model?

01:27:21   We're definitely all in there, like 100%.

01:27:23   Like they trained that on podcasts. Like that's where they got that.

01:27:26   I mean, I can tell you that I gave it the whole catalog of app stories personally.

01:27:30   So.

01:27:31   No, but like the model before you even try to like,

01:27:33   that's I don't know if the information you give to it trains the model further.

01:27:36   Like I don't know the answer to that, but like the model that they made,

01:27:40   the OpenAI made 100% they used.

01:27:44   Like every single podcast that could get their hands on. Cause why not?

01:27:47   It's like free and available contents. Like easy.

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01:30:30   It is time, my friends, for something I'm calling

01:30:35   Picking an Heir to the Throne.

01:30:38   Okay.

01:30:39   I don't think I'm going anywhere, but you never know.

01:30:44   What is happening?

01:30:45   What are we talking about?

01:30:46   - Are you dying?

01:30:46   - I don't think so.

01:30:47   But you know, I feel like I've taken on the mantle

01:30:50   of Apple historian.

01:30:51   - Oh.

01:30:52   - And I wanna know which of the two of you

01:30:55   would be an heir once I retire

01:30:59   or chat GPT comes for me or whatever.

01:31:02   - Are you trying to do a quiz but not call it a quiz?

01:31:05   - Yes.

01:31:05   Turns out quiz was trademarked.

01:31:08   - Oh my God.

01:31:08   - And so I couldn't do it.

01:31:10   So I have 10 questions.

01:31:11   - This is intellectual property theft.

01:31:13   - I have 10 questions.

01:31:14   Not again, not from you!

01:31:16   This is IP theft.

01:31:18   10 questions.

01:31:20   Hang on a second, hang on a second.

01:31:22   Now...

01:31:23   I kinda need more wine.

01:31:24   No, no, I wanna test...

01:31:25   Wait, have you been drinking?

01:31:26   Yeah, he started drinking wine, it's like a whole thing.

01:31:29   I wanna potentially put something interesting into this.

01:31:34   This is about trust.

01:31:36   Oh god, you're gonna put points into this.

01:31:39   I wanna see if Steven has trust in me.

01:31:42   We can put this into the quizzes.

01:31:44   and I play for you. Oh. But you gotta trust me. I did not deserve a quiz today.

01:31:53   Nobody does. I think we keep it separate, but that is very interesting.

01:31:58   Oh, see? He doesn't trust me. I wanted to see if he trusts me. Let's see if he learns

01:32:01   to regret this. Well, I feel like that could be construed as like me

01:32:06   and you ganging up on Federico, which this is not. But I had no idea. I think we all

01:32:10   collusion. The ganging up could go in the other way though because I could also do really bad to

01:32:16   tank your score. That's true. But never mind. Okay, so put it out there. How this works. There's

01:32:22   10 questions. I'm going to award a point for whoever is closest, okay? Because some of these

01:32:29   are extremely specific. And then there is a bonus round. There's enough points available in the

01:32:34   bonus round that it's all up for grabs.

01:32:38   I hate games like that.

01:32:40   No, don't do that.

01:32:41   Question?

01:32:42   I hate games like that.

01:32:43   When it's like the whole point of doing the quiz doesn't make any point because you just

01:32:47   get the last question.

01:32:49   This is how you beat me in the last founders quiz and I continue to find it as a disrespect

01:32:53   from Kathy to me.

01:32:54   Wow.

01:32:55   Well, I mean, we all know what part of the organization Kathy's in.

01:32:57   Exactly.

01:32:58   So collusion.

01:32:59   Collusion.

01:33:00   So you will get a point that forever is closest no half points or anything

01:33:05   And then the bonus round which we'll get to

01:33:08   You could you could you could do pretty poorly in the main quiz and walk away with it

01:33:12   If you do well in the bonus round, so ten questions, okay

01:33:16   They are this time all hardware related and how how are we doing this?

01:33:22   Because you asked us to have a pen and paper. So like that's for the bonus round. Oh

01:33:26   So there is an inherent

01:33:30   Trustworthiness in these quizzes that say that I asked a question and Federico answers it first

01:33:35   Mike you could change your answer based on what Federico said now

01:33:38   I'm gonna alternate between the two of you to help balance that out, but there is a level of trust

01:33:42   I think at this point we all understand how podcast quizzes work. You know what I mean? Yeah. Are you ready? Oh, I'm ready

01:33:47   Hmm Federico you were up first

01:33:49   You of course we both get to answer but you get to answer first on this one

01:33:53   What year was the Intel transition announced?

01:33:59   2003 okay Mike

01:34:01   2006 it is

01:34:04   2005

01:34:06   So Mike gets the point I got an Intel iMac for my 18th birthday

01:34:11   So that was how I tried to rough that one out. I will have proof URLs in the show notes

01:34:16   So there are no consequences for losing this game, right?

01:34:19   Loser is shame shame. It's okay eternal shame

01:34:24   No, I think there's a reverse, right?

01:34:26   'Cause he said it was, what did you call it?

01:34:28   The heir to the throne?

01:34:29   So the winner inherits Steven's backup.

01:34:33   Devin think thing, I guess.

01:34:34   Cool, yeah.

01:34:35   So, hope you got a big SSD handy.

01:34:38   (laughing)

01:34:40   All right, so Mike gets the point there.

01:34:43   Mike, you were first on the next question.

01:34:45   Name the first two Macs to use Intel processors.

01:34:48   iMac and MacBook.

01:34:50   Okay, I'm gonna go with,

01:34:52   - Yeah, I'm gonna go with iMac and MacBook too.

01:34:55   - So you're equally wrong.

01:34:57   The iMac and the MacBook Pro.

01:35:00   - Wow. - Wow, okay.

01:35:01   - I'm gonna call that a draw.

01:35:02   No points awarded.

01:35:03   Question number three, Federico, you're up first.

01:35:07   What does B-Y-O-D-K-M mean?

01:35:12   - Yeah, please remember, remind me the acronym again,

01:35:16   bring your own, what are the other letters?

01:35:21   - DKM.

01:35:21   - Display keyboard and mouse.

01:35:24   - Yeah, bring your own display keyboard and mouse.

01:35:27   - Very good.

01:35:28   I came across a blog post that's titled,

01:35:32   to BYODKM or not to BYODKM, which made me laugh.

01:35:37   - That's good.

01:35:38   - Mike, what was the shortest lived iPad model

01:35:42   and how long was it on sale?

01:35:44   - The, oh my God.

01:35:49   I know which one it was, right?

01:35:51   Like I can tell you things about it,

01:35:53   but you know what I'm like, what was its model?

01:35:58   It was iPad.

01:36:00   - What is the question?

01:36:01   What year was it?

01:36:02   - What was the shortest lived iPad model

01:36:04   and how long was it on sale?

01:36:06   - I'm gonna say iPad 4, six months.

01:36:10   - Okay.

01:36:11   - I think it was the third generation iPad

01:36:13   that was replaced by the iPad 4.

01:36:17   and it was on sale for about, yeah,

01:36:20   I wanna say six to seven months.

01:36:24   - Okay, I'm gonna give it to Federico.

01:36:25   It is the third generation iPad.

01:36:28   Apple called it the new iPad.

01:36:29   It was the first retina one.

01:36:30   - Yeah.

01:36:31   - It was announced seven months after it went on sale,

01:36:35   its replacement, and then it was replaced after eight months.

01:36:38   So eight months on the market.

01:36:40   - See, I thought the one that came after

01:36:42   was called the new iPad.

01:36:44   So the one that they got rid of was called the new iPad.

01:36:46   The new iPad was the third one,

01:36:48   which was replaced by the Lightning version of it,

01:36:50   which is the iPad 4.

01:36:51   And had a better GPU.

01:36:53   That was the thing I knew,

01:36:54   is that it had the 30 pin

01:36:56   and it was replaced by the Lightning one.

01:36:58   Yeah, that was a weird time.

01:37:00   It was really weird.

01:37:01   It was very strange.

01:37:02   And I'm so happy they stopped calling it the new iPad.

01:37:04   So bad.

01:37:05   That was just the worst name.

01:37:07   So bad.

01:37:08   All right, you each have two points.

01:37:09   You all are doing well.

01:37:11   Federico, you're up first.

01:37:13   How many models of Macintosh Performa did Apple sell in total?

01:37:17   Are you asking like unit sales or model numbers?

01:37:24   How many discrete models?

01:37:27   Okay.

01:37:27   Yes, good clarification. Thank you.

01:37:30   Performa models? Like they were called Performa in the name?

01:37:35   Yes.

01:37:36   I don't know.

01:37:41   Six.

01:37:42   This is closest wins?

01:37:45   Yep.

01:37:46   25.

01:37:47   The correct answer is 70.

01:37:50   Yeah, okay, cool.

01:37:51   I really wanted to say 60,

01:37:53   but I just figured I knew it was loads,

01:37:55   so I wanted, but I didn't know how many,

01:37:57   so when he went so low.

01:37:58   Wow.

01:37:59   70 according to every Mac.

01:38:00   I looked at a couple of different sources.

01:38:02   I saw it on every Mac, so 70.

01:38:04   That was a stupid time.

01:38:05   It really was, it was so dumb.

01:38:08   That link is in the show notes.

01:38:09   People can go look at it.

01:38:10   - Like how many years were they selling those for?

01:38:13   - Let me see.

01:38:14   I mean like off the top of my head,

01:38:16   like six or seven years?

01:38:18   Maybe not even that long.

01:38:19   - So they did like 10 devices a year.

01:38:22   - 1992 through 1997, so five years.

01:38:26   Yeah.

01:38:27   And that is inflated a little bit

01:38:28   because if it came with like a bigger hard drive,

01:38:30   it got a different model number,

01:38:32   but that was the literal problem.

01:38:34   So 70.

01:38:36   - 70 total.

01:38:37   Michael, the Macintosh 2FX could run you as much as $10,969 when it was new in 1990.

01:38:49   How much is that in today's dollars?

01:38:50   How much was it?

01:38:51   Ten thousand.

01:38:52   Ten thousand nine hundred sixty nine.

01:38:54   In 1990.

01:38:55   Yep, it was a nice time.

01:38:58   Yep, twenty two thousand dollars.

01:39:01   How much is it again?

01:39:03   Ten thousand nine hundred sixty nine dollars in 1990.

01:39:06   I'm going to go with 31.

01:39:11   31.

01:39:12   Y'all basically split it, but Mike's a little bit closer.

01:39:17   It's $25,248 today.

01:39:22   When I said it, I thought I went too high, like way too high.

01:39:24   Well, if you look at like the inflation history chart, a couple of years ago, you would have

01:39:28   been too high, you know, but very expensive computer.

01:39:34   Can you imagine?

01:39:35   Thanks, macroeconomic headwinds.

01:39:36   Yeah, can you imagine 20 a $25,000 Mac like you could just buy off the shelf not even like a that you that was like a

01:39:42   Base spec you could order and then that was the starting price. Yeah, you could add on like extra memory and stuff Wow

01:39:48   Yeah

01:39:50   So much money man, and we complain now so much money. All right, so that goes to Mike

01:39:55   Federico you go the score is

01:39:58   Mike has for Federico has to okay, but we got a long way to go. So Federico

01:40:05   how much did the original MacBook Air weigh and is it more or less than the

01:40:13   current M2 MacBook Air? Less than a pound and it's less than today's model. I'll

01:40:20   also say less than a pound because I have no idea and more than today's model.

01:40:27   Okay so Federico wins it was three pounds the M2 weighs 2.7 so it was

01:40:35   slightly more than the air. Y'all are both off but Federico is less wrong so okay Federico gets it.

01:40:40   Wait how do we define less wrong? He said... I feel like we had a question earlier where we

01:40:48   were split like that but hey I'm gonna let you go with it. I mean you know the crown is gonna do what

01:40:55   it does. When run on four AAA batteries what was the expected battery life on the original Newton?

01:41:03   Eight hours. No, that doesn't make sense. Wait, can you define that? What does that mean?

01:41:10   Battery life.

01:41:11   Screen, I believe from what I read, we're talking about screen on time.

01:41:16   15 hours.

01:41:17   Okay.

01:41:18   I feel like I'm so wrong. I have no idea.

01:41:20   I'm gonna say three hours.

01:41:22   Mike gets it. 14 hours.

01:41:25   Wow!

01:41:27   Wow, Newton, good job.

01:41:29   Also though, that thing chewed through batteries.

01:41:32   Like that's the problem, right?

01:41:35   Four AAA batteries!

01:41:37   You would need four batteries at least every five days?

01:41:41   Yeah, yeah.

01:41:42   Oh my god.

01:41:43   They had a rechargeable option, but it was even worse.

01:41:46   Still better than a Sega Game Gear.

01:41:47   Yeah, yeah.

01:41:48   I mean, think about the time, right?

01:41:52   Eventually they did get better, but yeah, I was shocked that it was only 14 hours.

01:41:56   I guess it was like you had to just use rechargeable lithium ion batteries, right?

01:42:00   If they even had them.

01:42:01   I mean, Apple had a battery pack you could do,

01:42:03   or you could use the triple A's.

01:42:05   - Oh, they were triple A.

01:42:06   - Triple A, yeah, the little ones.

01:42:09   Federico?

01:42:10   - Yeah.

01:42:11   - What is the only Mac that isn't made anymore,

01:42:14   but was never canceled?

01:42:16   (laughing)

01:42:18   - Canceled as in popular culture, canceled?

01:42:21   - However you want to interpret the question.

01:42:23   It had some bad takes on Twitter and was canceled.

01:42:26   - So a Mac that is no longer for sale?

01:42:30   Mm-hmm.

01:42:31   But it was never officially canceled?

01:42:33   Correct.

01:42:35   And it's the only--

01:42:36   The only.

01:42:37   Well, it's the trashcan Mac Pro.

01:42:41   Michael?

01:42:43   MacBook?

01:42:44   The G4 Cube. Wow.

01:42:47   Apple's press release said it was put on ice.

01:42:50   I knew this.

01:42:51   As soon as you said it, I remember the 20 max episode.

01:42:55   I honestly thought you were both gonna get it,

01:42:56   'cause I know Federico and I share a love for the Cube, so.

01:42:59   I don't share that love. No, that's annoying. That is called PR.

01:43:04   Didn't want Steve jobs get mad at them. So just put it on ice instead.

01:43:08   So with one question left, Mike has five and Federico has three.

01:43:13   Not that literally any of it matters because the bonus round is coming.

01:43:17   Mike, you're up first.

01:43:18   How many discrete models of iPhone have there been now?

01:43:23   I am not counting color or storage capacity. So for instance,

01:43:29   The iPhone is a model, the iPhone 3G is a model.

01:43:32   So how many of those have there been?

01:43:35   - 19.

01:43:36   - Federico?

01:43:37   - Wait, you're asking like generations?

01:43:41   Or are you also saying like Pro, Pro Max?

01:43:45   What's the--

01:43:46   - Pro and Pro Max would be two models.

01:43:48   - Oh. - Whoa.

01:43:49   - Can I re--

01:43:50   - Yes, yes, I should have been more clear.

01:43:52   Yes, you can re-guess.

01:43:53   - Okay. - I'm sorry.

01:43:55   This is my first time, I'm a first time quizzer.

01:43:57   - It's complicated, right?

01:43:58   - Yes.

01:43:59   - Question forming is really hard.

01:44:01   Okay, so how many models of iPhone have there been,

01:44:06   not including colors and storage,

01:44:08   everything else is on the table, right?

01:44:10   - Mm-hmm.

01:44:11   - 29.

01:44:12   - Okay.

01:44:13   - 35.

01:44:14   - Federico gets it almost exactly right,

01:44:16   there have been 38.

01:44:17   - Woo, that's a lot of iPhones.

01:44:20   - Yeah, that number was way higher than I thought.

01:44:22   - Yeah, I'm really happy that I got another chance

01:44:25   for that, at least.

01:44:26   - So, at the end of the regular quiz,

01:44:28   Mike has five and Federico has four.

01:44:33   So very close.

01:44:34   You both have done well.

01:44:35   So now I believe you each have something

01:44:38   to write or type into.

01:44:39   - Yep. - Yep.

01:44:41   - Is there a preference for you there?

01:44:43   - No, no, I just don't want y'all,

01:44:45   I want you to do your thinking quietly for this one

01:44:48   and then we will give our answers.

01:44:50   - That's really good for a podcast.

01:44:51   - Well, I'm gonna play hold music.

01:44:53   - Excellent.

01:44:54   - Before I thought about this, it won't be in real time.

01:44:57   So I'm gonna give you 30 seconds to write down

01:45:02   as many iMac G3 colors as you can.

01:45:06   And I will count us in.

01:45:08   Hey Siri, start a 30 second timer.

01:45:11   All right, go.

01:45:11   (upbeat music)

01:45:15   All right, time's up.

01:45:22   - So I have a question for you,

01:45:24   which I wanted to ask before, but then the time started.

01:45:27   Do you mean like how they called them? Yeah, the actual names. Okay, yeah, okay. Yeah, okay, cool.

01:45:33   So Federico, you are coming up from behind, so I'm gonna let you go first.

01:45:38   Okay, so I went with tangerine, bondi blue, flower power, red, gray, and green.

01:45:49   So you get three for bondi, tangerine, and flower power.

01:45:54   Okay. Alright. Mike? Bondi blue, tangerine, dalmatian, flower power, green, blueberry,

01:46:05   graphite, red, yellow. Wow. So Mike, you get a point for bondi, tangerine, blueberry, graphite,

01:46:13   and flower power. Wow. Dalmatian, not what? Blue dalmatian. Oh, get the hell out of here,

01:46:20   So I know I know so I'll give you the full list

01:46:23   Bondi strawberry tangerine grape lime blueberry. Those are the five flavors

01:46:29   There's actually no yellow iMac g3 even though it was on our t-shirt back in the day

01:46:34   graphite

01:46:36   indigo

01:46:37   Ruby like a dark red

01:46:39   Sage which is a dark green

01:46:41   snow

01:46:43   flower power and

01:46:44   Dalmatian

01:46:46   So at the end of the quiz

01:46:49   Mike has 10 points

01:46:51   Federico has 7 well done boys

01:46:55   Thank you. That was fun. Good. You're finally putting all that knowledge to good use you get to use Devon think Mike

01:47:01   Yeah, I can't wait baby

01:47:04   I'm gonna think so much. All right, so this may come back at some point if y'all I hope it does. Oh good good

01:47:10   I hope you all enjoyed that. This feels like a quiz for grown-ups. My quiz is madness. This is very difficult very difficult

01:47:18   It was a very different vibe. I like the vibe. The vibe here is a thinking. This is a thinking

01:47:23   person's quiz. Mine's just like, what movies do people think you like?

01:47:29   That's right, Danny.

01:47:31   Yeah, I did. So I've been thinking about this for a little while and I did have an idea

01:47:37   for a quiz I'm not going to do, so I'll share the idea. And it was like a twist on the passionate

01:47:41   ones. And it was who of the two of you know me better? But then I thought I would be the

01:47:45   real loser in that one.

01:47:46   - I'll take that one.

01:47:48   I'm gonna put that one in my quizzes list.

01:47:50   Thanks very much.

01:47:51   - Okay.

01:47:51   - Who loves Mike most?

01:47:54   (laughing)

01:47:55   I never got to go on.

01:47:56   - Yeah, the first question was gonna be,

01:47:58   what's my real age?

01:47:59   What is my real age?

01:48:01   - 30.

01:48:04   - 37?

01:48:05   - Eight.

01:48:07   - 37.

01:48:08   Well, I think that does it for this episode of Connected.

01:48:11   If you wanna find links to all the stuff we spoke about,

01:48:14   there's a lot of links today.

01:48:15   check them out in your podcast player,

01:48:17   or you can check them out on the web

01:48:18   at relay.fm/connected/442.

01:48:23   I have two things I'd like to draw your attention to.

01:48:25   One is the submit feedback link.

01:48:27   It's in both places.

01:48:29   There you can share feedback or follow up with us.

01:48:33   - Follow up.

01:48:34   - Follow up.

01:48:35   - Follow up.

01:48:36   - Follow up up and away with us.

01:48:37   We've been talking for a long time, okay?

01:48:41   - True follow up.

01:48:45   It's a lovely little form we've built there.

01:48:46   You can even keep your feedback anonymous if you want.

01:48:49   - My favorite is when people keep their feedback anonymous

01:48:52   but put their email address in.

01:48:53   For people that are doing that, I don't understand you.

01:48:55   Like I don't know why people are doing that.

01:48:56   - Those are the real hackers.

01:48:58   You know, they're anonymous,

01:48:59   but they still wanna be reached over email.

01:49:01   - They don't want you to know their name,

01:49:03   but they wanna give you a direct way to communicate.

01:49:06   - I don't know your name,

01:49:07   but your email address is johnsmith@gmail.com.

01:49:10   Okay, John.

01:49:11   - Generally, that happens quite a lot.

01:49:12   - Yeah, it does.

01:49:13   Email's not a required field in the form.

01:49:14   For this very reason,

01:49:16   we had this exact conversation internally.

01:49:18   You can also, on the web and in your podcast player,

01:49:21   sign up for Connected Pro.

01:49:23   Connected Pro is a longer ad-free version of the show

01:49:27   each and every week.

01:49:29   It's a real fun time to go check that out.

01:49:32   It's just $5 a month or $50 a year.

01:49:35   You can find us all online.

01:49:37   Federico is the editor-in-chief of maxstories.net,

01:49:40   soon to be home of Automation April.

01:49:42   You do not wanna miss that.

01:49:44   be sure to be following along at Mac Stories.

01:49:46   You can find Federico on Mastodon

01:49:49   at mastodon.macstories.net, and he is Vitichi there.

01:49:54   You can find Mike on a bunch of other shows

01:49:57   here on Relay FM.

01:49:58   He is also the co-founder of Cortex Brand.

01:50:02   You can check that out on the web.

01:50:03   And you can find Mike on Mastodon at mike.social as iMike.

01:50:08   You can find me on Mac Power Users every Sunday afternoon

01:50:12   here on Relay FM.

01:50:13   I also write 512 pixels.net and I am ismh@eworld.social over on Mastodon.

01:50:20   I'd like to thank our sponsors this week that made the show possible.

01:50:24   Fitbaud, electric, Zocdoc, and Setapp.

01:50:28   Until next week guys, say goodbye.

01:50:30   Adios, El Chirio.

01:50:31   Bye y'all.