Connected

00:00:00 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

00:00:02 ◼   ► Hello and welcome to Connected episode 442.

00:00:12 ◼   ► It's made possible this week by our sponsors,

00:00:14 ◼   ► Fitbaud, Electric, Zocdoc and Setapp.

00:00:18 ◼   ► My name is Stephen Hackett

00:00:19 ◼   ► and I have the pleasure of being joined by Mr. Mike Hurley.

00:00:22 ◼   ► Hello.

00:00:23 ◼   ► Hello, how are you?

00:00:24 ◼   ► Very good, thank you, how are you?

00:00:26 ◼   ► I am good.

00:00:27 ◼   ► We were also joined by Mr. Federico Vittucci.

00:00:29 ◼   ► Hi. Hello. How are you?

00:00:31 ◼   ► Good. We're all here. We've got a bunch of stuff to do today. I'm excited.

00:00:35 ◼   ► What?

00:00:37 ◼   ► No, no, no.

00:00:39 ◼   ► I think I did this once before. It's like, it's not actually a quiz,

00:00:42 ◼   ► but we're like technically like tiptoeing into the quizzes here because I have

00:00:47 ◼   ► quizzes follow up. This isn't actually a quiz.

00:00:49 ◼   ► I have an important piece of quizzes news for you. Very important.

00:00:54 ◼   ► I was contacted by relay FM historian Kate to let me know I made an error in the scoring

00:01:02 ◼   ► of the last episode.

00:01:03 ◼   ► Wow.

00:01:04 ◼   ► Stop the count.

00:01:06 ◼   ► Well that was the problem as I stopped the count too soon.

00:01:11 ◼   ► So I'm dealing with a lot of numbers right and I go into a spreadsheet.

00:01:15 ◼   ► And the question, I think it's question number seven, what is Federico's preferred

00:01:19 ◼   ► Mac?

00:01:20 ◼   ► Federico's got the 10, 20 and 40 point answers, but in my spreadsheet I wrote 10, 20, 20.

00:01:28 ◼   ► So Federico not actually won the entire game and is 20 points higher than I said he was.

00:01:35 ◼   ► So this is good news for me.

00:01:37 ◼   ► This is great news for you.

00:01:38 ◼   ► Ah, I love this piece of follow up.

00:01:40 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:01:41 ◼   ► So I made a slight error.

00:01:42 ◼   ► Thank you, Kate.

00:01:43 ◼   ► You got my back.

00:01:44 ◼   ► I appreciate it.

00:01:45 ◼   ► Thank you.

00:01:46 ◼   ► Kate couldn't have been nicer in the way that they presented this information to me, which

00:01:50 ◼   ► which I really appreciate.

00:01:51 ◼   ► - Looking out for justice.

00:01:54 ◼   ► I love this.

00:01:55 ◼   ► Thank you. - I was surprised

00:01:57 ◼   ► that only Kate wrote in about this,

00:02:00 ◼   ► but there were apparently a couple of people that noticed

00:02:02 ◼   ► and they were discussing it in the background,

00:02:04 ◼   ► but only one person contacted me.

00:02:06 ◼   ► - Only person who cares about the truth.

00:02:09 ◼   ► - Yes. - And you know,

00:02:11 ◼   ► what is right in this program.

00:02:14 ◼   ► Thank you.

00:02:15 ◼   ► - So the actual score for the

00:02:17 ◼   ► Do The Passionate Ones Know You round two was Stephen scored 580 points and Federico

00:02:24 ◼   ► scored 590 points.

00:02:28 ◼   ► Nice.

00:02:29 ◼   ► And so now the overall total scores for this year is Stephen at 1020 and Federico at 1120.

00:02:35 ◼   ► Nice.

00:02:36 ◼   ► I'm the champion.

00:02:38 ◼   ► That's the end of my follow up.

00:02:39 ◼   ► Thank you to Kate and everybody else that worked together to try and correct me.

00:02:44 ◼   ► I'm glad it's been corrected because when I mount my comeback and win this year, I don't

00:02:49 ◼   ► want to be tainted by your poor arithmetic.

00:02:53 ◼   ► No collusion.

00:02:54 ◼   ► No collusion.

00:02:55 ◼   ► So somebody was writing "bananaphone" in a lot, which was really annoying, and I mentioned

00:02:59 ◼   ► how annoying I found it.

00:03:01 ◼   ► Brett wrote in to say, "The bananaphone reference.

00:03:04 ◼   ► I did not give that answer for the quizzies, but it's a very important reference to a classic

00:03:08 ◼   ► children's song from Wikipedia.

00:03:10 ◼   ► Banana Phone is a children's album released by Raffi and Michael Kreber in 1994.

00:03:16 ◼   ► The album is best known for its title track, which uses puns such as "It's a phone with

00:03:21 ◼   ► appeal" like "appeal" and non-words like "bananula" and "interactavodula" as Raffi extols the

00:03:28 ◼   ► virtues of his unique telephone.

00:03:31 ◼   ► This is absolutely, 100%, not at all helpful in any way, or relevant, or anything.

00:03:38 ◼   ► I have no idea what any of this is.

00:03:41 ◼   ► Yeah, it's completely irrelevant.

00:03:43 ◼   ► It doesn't matter that somebody said this.

00:03:45 ◼   ► There is absolutely zero reason to write banana phone like seven times into the survey.

00:03:50 ◼   ► Yeah, what even?

00:03:53 ◼   ► Who are Rafi and Michael?

00:03:55 ◼   ► They're the people who voted in the poll, clearly.

00:04:00 ◼   ► That is the only way I would find this acceptable.

00:04:03 ◼   ► No.

00:04:04 ◼   ► Is if the person who created the song filled out the quiz.

00:04:08 ◼   ► Like, I don't care that you like the song or that you think it's funny.

00:04:11 ◼   ► Like, just stop it. You know what I mean?

00:04:13 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:04:14 ◼   ► That's all I gotta say. Well, never stop what I lost.

00:04:17 ◼   ► This is an American thing, right? I bet this is an American thing.

00:04:21 ◼   ► I never heard of it. I even looked it up on YouTube and it didn't, like,

00:04:24 ◼   ► ring any, like, bells deep in my memory.

00:04:26 ◼   ► I wanna bet. Because Americans, they have a tendency to believe that all of their cultural

00:04:32 ◼   ► references are shared worldwide.

00:04:34 ◼   ► Yes.

00:04:35 ◼   ► Oh, Canadian.

00:04:36 ◼   ► Oh, that's why no one knows about it.

00:04:38 ◼   ► Even worse!

00:04:39 ◼   ► [Laughter]

00:04:40 ◼   ► Wow!

00:04:41 ◼   ► Those Canadians!

00:04:42 ◼   ► [Laughter]

00:04:43 ◼   ► We're gonna start a war with Canada.

00:04:46 ◼   ► They ain't gonna fly back.

00:04:49 ◼   ► They'll just apologize.

00:04:50 ◼   ► What's the deal with Canadians?

00:04:52 ◼   ► Look at Michael.

00:04:53 ◼   ► Michael seems to be having a good time in these photos.

00:04:58 ◼   ► Apple Music Classical.

00:04:59 ◼   ► Boys, we're just a few days away from its launch on the iPhone.

00:05:03 ◼   ► Oh yeah!

00:05:04 ◼   ► Are you excited?

00:05:05 ◼   ► I even forgot about it.

00:05:07 ◼   ► Yeah, brutal.

00:05:09 ◼   ► I mean.

00:05:12 ◼   ► Adrian wrote in, 'cause we were talking about

00:05:15 ◼   ► how it's on the iPhone, it's not on the iPad and Mac,

00:05:19 ◼   ► it will be coming to Android, quote, coming soon,

00:05:23 ◼   ► is I think is what Apple has said.

00:05:25 ◼   ► And Adrian wrote in to remind us of that

00:05:28 ◼   ► and kind of wondering why it would be on Android

00:05:33 ◼   ► but not the Mac and iPad.

00:05:35 ◼   ► Any thoughts?

00:05:36 ◼   ► I think that's, I think they have a point.

00:05:42 ◼   ► I think that this idea of, from Adrian's feedback, so this idea that more, there are

00:05:50 ◼   ► more subscribers who don't have an iPhone, that there are iPad or Mac users who don't

00:05:55 ◼   ► have an iPhone, like, you know, actually, I think this explanation makes a lot more

00:06:00 ◼   ► sense than mine.

00:06:02 ◼   ► about the because that that one I think I said it on the episode is like that makes sense but didn't feel

00:06:08 ◼   ► Necessarily like the reason to do it because there is some Android based

00:06:12 ◼   ► Like DAX or whatever

00:06:15 ◼   ► And I still say like sure

00:06:18 ◼   ► but

00:06:20 ◼   ► This is Apple though. Sure, but yeah, it's still not a good look for the it's not good enough

00:06:26 ◼   ► in my experience, and I think it'd be fine if there was no Mac app, it's the iPad app,

00:06:32 ◼   ► which is I think the most egregious. It's right there! Yeah, it's the same operating system

00:06:38 ◼   ► essentially, right? Like, all good apps should be made with the way that they should be able to be

00:06:44 ◼   ► scaled to the iPad, so especially if this is, as you would assume, built on the architecture of the

00:06:51 ◼   ► music app, which already does this, you know?

00:06:55 ◼   ► - And we should say like Apple Music is on Android

00:06:59 ◼   ► because Beats Music was an Android.

00:07:02 ◼   ► And I think Apple wants their music service

00:07:04 ◼   ► to be as big as possible, right?

00:07:06 ◼   ► I mean, clearly there's some strategy there

00:07:07 ◼   ► beyond just like the historic reasons,

00:07:10 ◼   ► but it's definitely not a good look

00:07:13 ◼   ► for Apple's other products.

00:07:14 ◼   ► - iOS 16.4 release candidate is out,

00:07:19 ◼   ► which means the thing is probably launching next Tuesday

00:07:22 ◼   ► or Wednesday, I wanna say probably Tuesday.

00:07:25 ◼   ► So it's pretty much done.

00:07:26 ◼   ► We have the full release notes.

00:07:27 ◼   ► A couple of things that I saved

00:07:29 ◼   ► that I wanted to point out to you guys.

00:07:32 ◼   ► I copied the release notes on my iPhone.

00:07:34 ◼   ► So we confirmed 21 new emoji,

00:07:37 ◼   ► notifications for web apps, we talked about this.

00:07:41 ◼   ► Something new that wasn't mentioned before,

00:07:43 ◼   ► the voice isolation audio effect.

00:07:46 ◼   ► You know, the thing that used to be like FaceTime and voice over IP apps only, that sort of

00:07:52 ◼   ► isolates your voice, cuts out, you know, background sounds and noise.

00:07:57 ◼   ► It's also coming to cellular phone calls, which is pretty nice because I mean, there

00:08:02 ◼   ► are many times where for example, I call my mom, right?

00:08:06 ◼   ► And just a straight up regular phone call.

00:08:10 ◼   ► And to have that audio effect sounds pretty cool.

00:08:14 ◼   ► Like if I'm at the mall, for example, and my mom calls me, I can just turn on voice

00:08:19 ◼   ► isolation and she's going to hear me better.

00:08:21 ◼   ► It's pretty nice, I think.

00:08:24 ◼   ► Very nice addition.

00:08:25 ◼   ► I think it makes sense.

00:08:26 ◼   ► And on iPadOS, there's the thing that I think is new in the release notes, like they didn't

00:08:30 ◼   ► previously disclose this addition.

00:08:32 ◼   ► If you guys can help me make sense of this, please.

00:08:35 ◼   ► Apple Pencil Hover adds tilt and azimuth support.

00:08:40 ◼   ► you can preview your mark at any angle before you make it in notes and supported apps.

00:08:47 ◼   ► Can you spell that word for me?

00:08:49 ◼   ► Azimuth. A-Z-I-M-U-T-H.

00:08:52 ◼   ► No, tilt. Have you spelled tilt? The direction of a celestial object from the observer expressed

00:09:00 ◼   ► as the angular distance from the north or south point of the horizon to the point at

00:09:05 ◼   ► which a vertical circle passing through the object intersects the horizon.

00:09:10 ◼   ► me if I'm wrong Azimuth should be the opposite of Zenith I think? Anybody here?

00:09:18 ◼   ► How could I possibly correct you? You know what I mean?

00:09:20 ◼   ► You never heard about this? Zenith and Azimuth? But I never, basically I can never recall

00:09:24 ◼   ► which is which.

00:09:26 ◼   ► I'm currently looking at a diagram on Google which has celestial meridian, zenith, observer,

00:09:32 ◼   ► horizon, star, altitude, azimuth.

00:09:34 ◼   ► So zenith is a thing? Oh no they're not, zenith and nadir. Oh thank you Jason and thank

00:09:39 ◼   ► you with it. They're not the opposite. What is happening right now? I don't understand

00:09:45 ◼   ► 70% of the words people are saying. Alright, alright, so I know this, I know this because

00:09:50 ◼   ► when I was little, I gotta tell you, when I was little I was an incredible nerd when

00:09:55 ◼   ► it came to, you know, you know the machina, you know the machina of Santa Rosa, Inviterbo,

00:10:00 ◼   ► the big celebration in my hometown. So, and there used to be these like technical sketches

00:10:05 ◼   ► of each model of the machina.

00:10:08 ◼   ► And I remember when I was like seven or eight,

00:10:11 ◼   ► I was looking at these technical drawings of each model

00:10:14 ◼   ► and there used to be like this word, like zenith point.

00:10:17 ◼   ► And I remember asking my mom, what's a zenith point?

00:10:20 ◼   ► And I believe that the zenith point of the machina

00:10:23 ◼   ► used to be like the machina as seen from above.

00:10:27 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:10:27 ◼   ► - Right?

00:10:28 ◼   ► - That's what the diagram looks like.

00:10:29 ◼   ► - Imagine if you stand on a tall tower

00:10:31 ◼   ► and at the exact perpendicular center of it

00:10:35 ◼   ► and you look down, that should be the zenith point.

00:10:39 ◼   ► So what is the azimuth point anyway?

00:10:40 ◼   ► - It looks like if you were to hold,

00:10:43 ◼   ► like if you were to tilt something

00:10:44 ◼   ► and move it kind of like left and right,

00:10:46 ◼   ► based on this article.

00:10:48 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:10:49 ◼   ► - Or on this diagram, I should say.

00:10:51 ◼   ► - So zenith and nadir.

00:10:53 ◼   ► Well, thank you, Jason.

00:10:54 ◼   ► Those are really good words.

00:10:56 ◼   ► - I don't know why we can't just get along with tilt.

00:10:58 ◼   ► Like I feel like tilt would be perfectly acceptable,

00:11:01 ◼   ► but maybe to people that really care,

00:11:03 ◼   ► they want Azimuth written in there.

00:11:06 ◼   ► But that's good news, I suppose.

00:11:08 ◼   ► - I mean, you're supposed to know these fancy words,

00:11:12 ◼   ► you know?

00:11:12 ◼   ► - Why?

00:11:13 ◼   ► - Well, it's good culture.

00:11:15 ◼   ► It's good education to know them.

00:11:17 ◼   ► - Yeah, I have not a lot of education

00:11:20 ◼   ► and I've done fine.

00:11:21 ◼   ► You know what I mean?

00:11:24 ◼   ► - It's okay, man.

00:11:26 ◼   ► Fine.

00:11:27 ◼   ► Cool, so anyway, 16.4.

00:11:31 ◼   ► - Education.

00:11:31 ◼   ► Small topic took us places we did not expect. Yeah

00:11:34 ◼   ► Stephen what you got for us?

00:11:37 ◼   ► Well, there is one more feature in the release candidate that I want to point out is that oh, yes

00:11:42 ◼   ► It includes duplicate detection emerging in a shared photo library

00:11:47 ◼   ► Now that has been I mean less. I'm just like misunderstanding that's been on the Mac like it's on the Mac right now

00:11:55 ◼   ► I'm looking at it. I open photos in preparation for this like oh I can see duplicates and I can see them in

00:12:01 ◼   ► in like across personal and shared library.

00:12:06 ◼   ► But anyways, I don't know if it's new to the Mac as well

00:12:09 ◼   ► or they're changing something about it,

00:12:10 ◼   ► but it is on iOS now, which is great.

00:12:14 ◼   ► It's a pretty sweet feature.

00:12:15 ◼   ► I have not really had much trouble with it.

00:12:19 ◼   ► I mean, my photo library, I guess we've talked about,

00:12:22 ◼   ► is like a real disaster right now

00:12:24 ◼   ► with having combined my wife and I's,

00:12:27 ◼   ► and there's a lot of overlap and stuff.

00:12:28 ◼   ► So I probably will just let the duplication thing

00:12:33 ◼   ► figure out what it wants to do

00:12:34 ◼   ► and then go about my tagging.

00:12:36 ◼   ► And I got a bunch of photos without dates

00:12:39 ◼   ► and locations and stuff to fix, but so far so good.

00:12:43 ◼   ► - By the way, the zenith point of the machina

00:12:47 ◼   ► is if you stand below it and you look up, I think.

00:12:52 ◼   ► - Oh, okay. - And then the deer point.

00:12:53 ◼   ► Which I did when I was little.

00:12:55 ◼   ► My parents took me, I was like 10.

00:12:57 ◼   ► to see it inside before the event.

00:13:02 ◼   ► - That must have been amazing.

00:13:04 ◼   ► - Yeah, it was incredible.

00:13:05 ◼   ► Like it's super scary, but like you stand inside it

00:13:09 ◼   ► and under it basically, and you look up

00:13:13 ◼   ► and you see this whole structure inside,

00:13:14 ◼   ► like electrical wires, like these, you know,

00:13:17 ◼   ► steel reinforced steel cables, it's wild.

00:13:20 ◼   ► So when you look up is the Zenith point.

00:13:23 ◼   ► And if you were to stand on top of it all and look down,

00:13:27 ◼   ► that would be the Nadir point of it.

00:13:29 ◼   ► Cool.

00:13:31 ◼   ► - I love watching that live stream

00:13:32 ◼   ► when they're carrying it through town and it's amazing.

00:13:36 ◼   ► - They're changing it, I think next year,

00:13:39 ◼   ► because of like the model is supposed to refresh

00:13:44 ◼   ► every seven years, but then because of COVID,

00:13:46 ◼   ► the local administration wisely chose

00:13:51 ◼   ► to spend the money elsewhere during the pandemic.

00:13:54 ◼   ► And so they're like, we are gonna spend a bunch of money

00:13:57 ◼   ► on a new model in 2024.

00:13:59 ◼   ► So, you know, the Machina and the iPad Pro going

00:14:03 ◼   ► hand in hand with new models in 2024.

00:14:05 ◼   ► - Oh, let Machina come in in 2024.

00:14:07 ◼   ► - It's gonna cost twice as much for no real reason.

00:14:10 ◼   ► - It's gonna look the same.

00:14:11 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:14:14 ◼   ► - Still can't run two apps at a time very well.

00:14:17 ◼   ► I just wanna just to shout something out on the show.

00:14:20 ◼   ► I've had, over the last few months, people have asked me,

00:14:23 ◼   ► like, oh, can I get the wallpapers or the counter dates

00:14:27 ◼   ► from the Kickstarters, 'cause I run those,

00:14:29 ◼   ► where you can buy them separately

00:14:31 ◼   ► or during a Kickstarter or afterwards.

00:14:33 ◼   ► But I was like, oh, I should just have them up year round.

00:14:35 ◼   ► And so there's a link in the show notes

00:14:36 ◼   ► if you want those wallpapers or ICS versions

00:14:41 ◼   ► of the calendars that you can subscribe to

00:14:43 ◼   ► in iCloud or Google or wherever you are.

00:14:46 ◼   ► They're all available now year round.

00:14:48 ◼   ► Do that together this week,

00:14:49 ◼   ► and I think people are enjoying it, which is cool.

00:14:52 ◼   ► I'm an e-merchant now.

00:14:55 ◼   ► Well, congratulations.

00:14:57 ◼   ► Coming after Jeff Bezos.

00:14:59 ◼   ► Oh. Wow.

00:15:01 ◼   ► I even have a book on here.

00:15:02 ◼   ► I've got my old iMac and OS X book on here as a PDF now.

00:15:06 ◼   ► Lofty gold.

00:15:07 ◼   ► Why don't you put the genius book on there?

00:15:09 ◼   ► Nope. Nope.

00:15:10 ◼   ► We don't talk about that project.

00:15:12 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:15:14 ◼   ► That just popped into my head, man.

00:15:16 ◼   ► That was a good book.

00:15:17 ◼   ► That caused a lot of trouble.

00:15:19 ◼   ► What was it called?

00:15:20 ◼   ► Bartending.

00:15:22 ◼   ► Genius name.

00:15:24 ◼   ► - Listener, listener, listen to me.

00:15:26 ◼   ► Do not look for this book.

00:15:29 ◼   ► You're not gonna find it.

00:15:30 ◼   ► It wasn't very good.

00:15:32 ◼   ► - I just found it on Mac stories.

00:15:33 ◼   ► Yeah, there you go.

00:15:34 ◼   ► There it is right there.

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00:16:41 ◼   ► muscle fatigue and recovery.

00:16:43 ◼   ► So it takes all of that data

00:16:45 ◼   ► and creates workouts just for you.

00:16:47 ◼   ► My favorite part about the app is the 1400 video tutorials

00:16:52 ◼   ► it. So if you're unfamiliar with an exercise you can see a professional

00:16:56 ◼   ► doing that exercise usually from multiple angles make sure that you're

00:17:00 ◼   ► doing it correctly and safely. And Fitbod integrates with a whole bunch of stuff.

00:17:04 ◼   ► The Apple Watch, Wear OS smartwatches, and apps like Strava, Fitbit, and Apple Health.

00:17:09 ◼   ► I've used Fitbod for several years now and I really do love it. Anytime I'm

00:17:15 ◼   ► working out it's open on my phone and I can really see the change because of it.

00:17:20 ◼   ► Personalized training of this quality can be expensive, but Fitbod is just $12.99

00:17:25 ◼   ► a month or $79.99 a year. You can get 25% off your membership though by signing up

00:17:31 ◼   ► on the web at fitbod.me/connected. So go there now and get your

00:17:37 ◼   ► customized fitness plan at fitbod.me/connected and you'll get 25% off

00:17:43 ◼   ► your membership. That link is also in the show notes fitbod.me/connected.

00:17:48 ◼   ► Our thanks to Fitbod for their support of the show and Relay FM.

00:17:53 ◼   ► Wade wrote in and asks, "Follow up to the roast of your Apple Watches from episode 437.

00:18:00 ◼   ► Do any of you use alternate Apple Watch faces for different activities?"

00:18:04 ◼   ► I don't know if this counts as a valid answer to the question.

00:18:12 ◼   ► I have three watch faces that I use.

00:18:16 ◼   ► I have a work one, a personal one, and a sleep one.

00:18:19 ◼   ► Every once in a while, usually when it's like New Year's Eve

00:18:22 ◼   ► or when there's a birthday party

00:18:24 ◼   ► and we are counting down at midnight,

00:18:27 ◼   ► I put on an analog watch face, which I usually never use,

00:18:32 ◼   ► because you know my stance on analog watch faces,

00:18:36 ◼   ► but it's a very effective way to do it,

00:18:39 ◼   ► 10, nine, eight, you know, the whole countdown thing.

00:18:43 ◼   ► So when that occasion occurs, I install the watch face beforehand, I use it, and then

00:18:52 ◼   ► when, you know, after the celebration is done, I just delete the watch face.

00:18:56 ◼   ► You delete it?

00:18:57 ◼   ► Yeah, you can just swipe it up and, you know, just get it out of the way.

00:19:00 ◼   ► I don't need to see it.

00:19:01 ◼   ► I don't need to see the clock hands, you know, it's not, you know, the medieval age.

00:19:07 ◼   ► When you have embargos, what do you use to count like the seconds?

00:19:10 ◼   ► Oh, I just look at the minute, and when the minute is up, I just wait.

00:19:14 ◼   ► You just like got your finger just hovering over the publish button, you just wait for

00:19:18 ◼   ► an hour to change?

00:19:19 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:19:20 ◼   ► You can't trust WordPress scheduling in an embargo situation.

00:19:22 ◼   ► No, you don't want to schedule an embargo.

00:19:24 ◼   ► No, no, but I'm saying you could be waiting up to 59 seconds with your finger just hovering

00:19:27 ◼   ► there.

00:19:28 ◼   ► Yeah, well, that's the beauty of it, right?

00:19:29 ◼   ► I have my whole routine before big embargoes.

00:19:33 ◼   ► I like to listen to Live Forever by Oasis.

00:19:37 ◼   ► In case anything bad happens.

00:19:38 ◼   ► So specific.

00:19:39 ◼   ► Like, I literally do this.

00:19:40 ◼   ► And also before publishing my big iOS reviews,

00:19:43 ◼   ► I always listen to Live Forever by Oasis.

00:19:46 ◼   ► It's like my good luck thing,

00:19:48 ◼   ► but also like, you know, it's inspirational.

00:19:50 ◼   ► Like in case anything bad happens, I just, you know,

00:19:52 ◼   ► live forever.

00:19:53 ◼   ► I'm gonna live forever.

00:19:54 ◼   ► - Wait, wait, wait.

00:19:55 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:19:56 ◼   ► - Can you tie those two things together for me?

00:19:58 ◼   ► Why, if anything bad happens, does Live Forever help you?

00:20:02 ◼   ► - Like, because I like to be in the mindset

00:20:05 ◼   ► that even if I somehow destroy my website,

00:20:08 ◼   ► I'm gonna live forever in other people's memories.

00:20:11 ◼   ► - Okay, so you're gonna live forever anyway.

00:20:12 ◼   ► That makes sense. - Yes.

00:20:13 ◼   ► Yes.

00:20:15 ◼   ► - Now I wanna ask Steven both of these questions.

00:20:20 ◼   ► Do you have any Apple Watch faces

00:20:21 ◼   ► and what do you do when you publish things on an embargo?

00:20:25 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:20:26 ◼   ► - I don't have an embargo very often, which is nice.

00:20:29 ◼   ► But my main watch face as discussed is modular,

00:20:33 ◼   ► but I also have modular compact,

00:20:37 ◼   ► which is basically the same except I ditch the calendar

00:20:40 ◼   ► and use like a full, like the full size Carrotweather one.

00:20:44 ◼   ► That's normally my weekend face,

00:20:45 ◼   ► 'cause I get the time, activity rings, and the weather.

00:20:48 ◼   ► I also have a modular face for workouts

00:20:52 ◼   ► that has a stopwatch,

00:20:54 ◼   ► and then the complications are overcast,

00:20:57 ◼   ► fit bod, and Carrotweather, and activity rings.

00:21:01 ◼   ► And then my like, I don't really wanna see anything,

00:21:04 ◼   ► I just wanna kinda wear a watch,

00:21:06 ◼   ► and it'd be as simple as possible.

00:21:08 ◼   ► I love Solar Graph, which is an old watch face,

00:21:12 ◼   ► but I'm a big fan of it.

00:21:13 ◼   ► And that's my like, maybe it's,

00:21:16 ◼   ► you know, maybe we're out to dinner or something

00:21:18 ◼   ► and I've worn the Apple Watch,

00:21:19 ◼   ► but I don't really want anything except the date and time.

00:21:21 ◼   ► Then I use that one.

00:21:23 ◼   ► - I feel like you two were sandbagging me

00:21:25 ◼   ► when we did the watch roast.

00:21:27 ◼   ► And in fact, we'll use like four watch faces each.

00:21:30 ◼   ► - But I would say 90% of the time,

00:21:33 ◼   ► I'm on the one we talked about.

00:21:35 ◼   ► I don't have a separate sleep one because I use the sleep modes.

00:21:38 ◼   ► My watch just goes, you know, in the sleep mode where there's no face.

00:21:42 ◼   ► So I would say at least 90% of the time I'm on that main one.

00:21:48 ◼   ► Okay, I use just one.

00:21:50 ◼   ► I have like four on the thing, but they're just the watch faces I was using previously.

00:21:55 ◼   ► You know, like pretty much every time, well whenever Apple brings out a new watch face

00:21:59 ◼   ► that I like, I just switch to that one.

00:22:01 ◼   ► But then like the ones from previous years are still there.

00:22:04 ◼   ► So like I use, what is it, Metropolitan now.

00:22:08 ◼   ► Before that I was using California.

00:22:13 ◼   ► Before that was World Time.

00:22:14 ◼   ► Before that was GMT.

00:22:15 ◼   ► So they would just kind of live there like a little family tree kind of thing.

00:22:19 ◼   ► Yeah, it's like a time machine backup of watch faces.

00:22:22 ◼   ► You know what?

00:22:23 ◼   ► It actually is kind of like that.

00:22:25 ◼   ► That's actually a side note question.

00:22:28 ◼   ► How and if and what?

00:22:33 ◼   ► which device how and if and upon how if upon you know time machine what I want to

00:22:56 ◼   ► know is yeah present present tense come on go on you can do okay so let me go

00:23:04 ◼   ► back I feel like I gotta start over again so time machine machine

00:23:11 ◼   ► some my MacBook Air right as I'm like saying this I'm now realizing this

00:23:24 ◼   ► probably the easier way to do this but my MacBook Air, I plug it into my studio

00:23:29 ◼   ► display every day right and I only plug it straight into the studio

00:23:33 ◼   ► display because in the studio display just has like a couple of dongles used

00:23:37 ◼   ► to fill out the other USB C ports. I don't use a dock for that one because it's

00:23:40 ◼   ► simple. But I came to the realization that I'm, because of that, not

00:23:44 ◼   ► backing up that machine, time machine. Oh that's what-evs man, whatever.

00:23:50 ◼   ► everything's in Dropbox and everything's being backed up to Backblaze. It's totally fine.

00:23:55 ◼   ► But what I wanted to just see, is there still a way to do Time Machine over the network?

00:24:01 ◼   ► Yes, there is.

00:24:02 ◼   ► How do you... and see, now this is why I was like, how and upon, right? Like,

00:24:07 ◼   ► how do you do it and upon which device do you do it? Like, how do you do that? I don't even

00:24:12 ◼   ► understand how it works.

00:24:13 ◼   ► How and upon if.

00:24:14 ◼   ► I am going to put a link in the Google doc that you can go read later about it.

00:24:20 ◼   ► because it's complicated to talk about,

00:24:22 ◼   ► but basically you set it up on a Mac

00:24:25 ◼   ► and it's in the sharing system settings pane.

00:24:29 ◼   ► I use this--

00:24:30 ◼   ► But what is it back up to though?

00:24:31 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, so I use this at home,

00:24:35 ◼   ► not for my machine, but for my wife's machine

00:24:37 ◼   ► and the couple of laptops the kids use

00:24:39 ◼   ► for like school homework and stuff.

00:24:41 ◼   ► And I just have like a,

00:24:42 ◼   ► maybe it's like a six terabyte spinning hard drive

00:24:45 ◼   ► hanging off the Mac mini that's under my TV.

00:24:48 ◼   ► That's kind of like the media center computer.

00:24:50 ◼   ► And those laptops all just back up over the network

00:24:54 ◼   ► to that six terabyte drive.

00:24:55 ◼   ► And so you set it up on the host computer, if you will,

00:25:00 ◼   ► and then you go to the remote computer and tell it,

00:25:03 ◼   ► oh, back up over here.

00:25:04 ◼   ► It's really pretty straightforward.

00:25:06 ◼   ► It used to require like Mac OS X server back in the day,

00:25:08 ◼   ► but now it's just built into regular Mac OS.

00:25:12 ◼   ► - Okay, so I would need to put another drive

00:25:16 ◼   ► on say my MacBook Pro,

00:25:18 ◼   ► which is always docked and just sleeping.

00:25:20 ◼   ► Yeah. Yeah.

00:25:21 ◼   ► To make this work.

00:25:22 ◼   ► All right. That is a feasible thing to do.

00:25:25 ◼   ► Oh yeah.

00:25:26 ◼   ► And in my experience, I've had it running for years

00:25:29 ◼   ► and it's been really solid.

00:25:30 ◼   ► Like I don't really ever get failures on it

00:25:34 ◼   ► where like a computer just stops backing up.

00:25:36 ◼   ► It's been really, really great.

00:25:38 ◼   ► Now, because it's over the network,

00:25:40 ◼   ► leave the computer there over the weekend

00:25:41 ◼   ► for the first backup.

00:25:42 ◼   ► Like the first one's going to take a while.

00:25:45 ◼   ► But then after that, like, you know, I mean,

00:25:46 ◼   ► it's pretty quick 'cause it's just over the local network.

00:25:48 ◼   ► So it's-

00:25:49 ◼   ► It's totally manageable and really easy to do now.

00:25:52 ◼   ► Okay, I'll take a look into this.

00:25:55 ◼   ► How upon...

00:25:56 ◼   ► How upon...

00:25:57 ◼   ► And...

00:25:58 ◼   ► And what?

00:26:00 ◼   ► Nailed it.

00:26:01 ◼   ► Cubes are out.

00:26:02 ◼   ► Triangles are in.

00:26:04 ◼   ► No, give people the goods.

00:26:07 ◼   ► Read what you wrote in our document.

00:26:09 ◼   ► It's funny.

00:26:11 ◼   ► Tiny topic two.

00:26:12 ◼   ► Tired cubes.

00:26:13 ◼   ► Wired triangles.

00:26:15 ◼   ► See?

00:26:16 ◼   ► Perfect.

00:26:17 ◼   ► I disagree.

00:26:18 ◼   ► I will say, when I first read that, I was very confused.

00:26:21 ◼   ► I read it as tired cubes, wired triangles.

00:26:23 ◼   ► I was like, what the hell's going on?

00:26:25 ◼   ► Like if you just read it, like in that format,

00:26:28 ◼   ► tired cubes, wired triangles.

00:26:31 ◼   ► That's very confusing.

00:26:32 ◼   ► But yeah.

00:26:35 ◼   ► - Yeah, so this is a new multi charger from Anker.

00:26:40 ◼   ► So it's 15 watt max safe charging.

00:26:45 ◼   ► And it's like a little triangle.

00:26:47 ◼   ► your phone goes on the front of it,

00:26:48 ◼   ► and then the Apple Watch arm kind of just

00:26:52 ◼   ► sticks out the side.

00:26:53 ◼   ► And I'm really just joking.

00:26:55 ◼   ► And then there's the charger on the underneath?

00:26:58 ◼   ► On the zenith of it, or something.

00:27:02 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:27:03 ◼   ► Is that the zenith?

00:27:04 ◼   ► I don't know, I blacked out in that section.

00:27:06 ◼   ► It's on the nadir, because you would be up

00:27:08 ◼   ► and looking down on it to see it.

00:27:10 ◼   ► Exactly, thank you, Mike.

00:27:11 ◼   ► See?

00:27:12 ◼   ► Okay.

00:27:13 ◼   ► See, who needs school when I can just learn this

00:27:15 ◼   ► on a podcast?

00:27:16 ◼   ► Exactly. Exactly.

00:27:18 ◼   ► I learned everything I needed to know from podcasts.

00:27:20 ◼   ► Same to you to this day.

00:27:21 ◼   ► I learned everything I needed to know from Jason Snell, apparently.

00:27:23 ◼   ► Podcast University, that's what we all went to.

00:27:26 ◼   ► Studied at Podcast U.

00:27:28 ◼   ► The P.U.

00:27:29 ◼   ► Studied at P.U.

00:27:31 ◼   ► P.U.

00:27:32 ◼   ► The M.P.U. You rebrand the M.P.U. as the My Podcast University.

00:27:37 ◼   ► My Power University.

00:27:38 ◼   ► Yeah, My Podcast University.

00:27:40 ◼   ► There you go. Nailed it. Got it. Love it.

00:27:44 ◼   ► Just as I'm gonna put some follow-up inside of this topic before we talk about a call up on Mac power users

00:27:49 ◼   ► Mm-hmm, so I'm also like fully up-to-date now - I just hadn't listened to that episode yet where you spoke about your

00:27:56 ◼   ► Computer changing. Yeah, and I feel like I don't fully understand what you've done or why you've done it

00:28:01 ◼   ► I feel like you just kind of said I've done this thing, but there was no like

00:28:05 ◼   ► Oh a laptop seems nicer like that wasn't a reason. Mmm. I expanded upon it in the 512 members newsletter

00:28:13 ◼   ► Oh for God's sake.

00:28:15 ◼   ► I guess what Mike is trying to say, imagine the show we would have been able to put on,

00:28:19 ◼   ► Mike and I, if you told us you had switched computers.

00:28:22 ◼   ► Because David is just nice to you.

00:28:24 ◼   ► We would have put on a whole drama about it and instead, you know, you just got a nice

00:28:29 ◼   ► guy to tell you, yeah, that's a good idea.

00:28:31 ◼   ► Why are you making it so complicated, right?

00:28:33 ◼   ► Like I have to listen to Mac Power Users and then read your newsletter to get the full

00:28:37 ◼   ► story.

00:28:38 ◼   ► Why can't you just tell me?

00:28:39 ◼   ► Because this is your response.

00:28:40 ◼   ► Because we want to get to do this.

00:28:43 ◼   ► Okay, fair enough. Well, I want more from you. So like, you just said like, "Oh, I just

00:28:50 ◼   ► stopped using my Mac studio. Now I have a laptop." Like, that's not satisfactory.

00:28:56 ◼   ► Not satisfactory. So it really came down to the fact that I've been running the two-computer

00:29:03 ◼   ► life style for like seven or eight years now. A long time.

00:29:08 ◼   ► Tell me about it.

00:29:09 ◼   ► since I moved into the studio.

00:29:11 ◼   ► So I guess like, yeah, like seven, seven and a half years.

00:29:14 ◼   ► I like a lot about the two computer lifestyle.

00:29:17 ◼   ► And so I would have a desktop

00:29:19 ◼   ► and then I would have a notebook

00:29:20 ◼   ► and the notebook would be a subset of my data,

00:29:23 ◼   ► my applications, my workflows, you know,

00:29:25 ◼   ► all that sort of stuff.

00:29:26 ◼   ► And it was especially great,

00:29:28 ◼   ► or like not a big deal during the pandemic

00:29:30 ◼   ► 'cause I was just always using the desktop, right?

00:29:32 ◼   ► 'Cause I didn't go anywhere.

00:29:34 ◼   ► But increasingly,

00:29:36 ◼   ► and it's kind of a thing I wanna do this year even more,

00:29:39 ◼   ► is work more out of the office when I can.

00:29:44 ◼   ► And there were several times where I would be

00:29:47 ◼   ► in the situation where like, oh crap,

00:29:50 ◼   ► the podcast I was gonna edit here at the coffee shop

00:29:53 ◼   ► is on the Mac Studio at home, or the Mac Pro,

00:29:55 ◼   ► or whatever the desktop was at the time.

00:29:57 ◼   ► Even though it's easier than ever

00:29:59 ◼   ► to run the two Mac lifestyle, I just kind of realized

00:30:02 ◼   ► that this is overhead that I don't actually need

00:30:06 ◼   ► because the studio display's awesome

00:30:08 ◼   ► and the MacBook Pro is awesome,

00:30:09 ◼   ► and I can get a Thunderbolt dock

00:30:11 ◼   ► and everything runs through that.

00:30:12 ◼   ► So it really was about simplifying my setup.

00:30:15 ◼   ► I'm really enjoying having everything with me at one place.

00:30:19 ◼   ► Last week, we were on spring break,

00:30:20 ◼   ► I was out of town for a few days,

00:30:22 ◼   ► and I took my computer, I was like,

00:30:23 ◼   ► "Oh, I have just everything with me."

00:30:26 ◼   ► I don't have the overhead of like,

00:30:27 ◼   ► make sure the files are in Dropbox,

00:30:29 ◼   ► or, "Oh, I changed this setting,"

00:30:32 ◼   ► or this whatever on that computer,

00:30:35 ◼   ► it's not changed on this computer.

00:30:36 ◼   ► So it's really a simplification,

00:30:38 ◼   ► and the 14 inch MacBook Pro is so good,

00:30:41 ◼   ► it seemed like the way to go when I wanted to try this out.

00:30:45 ◼   ► - But you didn't have one of those though, did you?

00:30:48 ◼   ► You had to get one of those, right?

00:30:50 ◼   ► - I had a 14 inch M1 Pro, the first 14,

00:30:55 ◼   ► but Mary took it.

00:30:57 ◼   ► The kids were using an old Intel MacBook Air

00:30:59 ◼   ► that was like on its last legs.

00:31:01 ◼   ► And so her M1 Air went down to them for schoolwork

00:31:04 ◼   ► and you know, Roblox and stuff.

00:31:07 ◼   ► and then she got my 14 inch MacBook Pro.

00:31:10 ◼   ► I was willing to get her whatever she wanted,

00:31:12 ◼   ► but she really likes the size of the 14 inch.

00:31:16 ◼   ► Like, 'cause she's been on MacBook Airs forever.

00:31:18 ◼   ► Didn't you have an M2 Air?

00:31:20 ◼   ► I still, yeah, so I have an M2 Air,

00:31:23 ◼   ► and I told her, I was like, if you want,

00:31:25 ◼   ► like, what do you want?

00:31:27 ◼   ► And she kinda looked at them both,

00:31:29 ◼   ► and she said she liked the bigger screen of the 14 inch.

00:31:32 ◼   ► Because she went from, for a long time,

00:31:36 ◼   ► she had an LG 4K Ultrafine, like the 21 and a half inch.

00:31:41 ◼   ► And she got away from that

00:31:45 ◼   ► and like just using a notebook as a notebook.

00:31:47 ◼   ► And so she wanted the bigger screen.

00:31:50 ◼   ► She really liked the 14 inch.

00:31:50 ◼   ► So she has the M1 Pro 14 inch.

00:31:53 ◼   ► Like that is still in our house.

00:31:54 ◼   ► It's sitting in the house right now,

00:31:56 ◼   ► like on the kitchen table. - Hold on a second.

00:31:58 ◼   ► I'm lost.

00:31:59 ◼   ► So you had a couple of weeks ago, a Mac Studio,

00:32:02 ◼   ► A 14-inch MacBook Pro M1 and an M2 MacBook Air.

00:32:06 ◼   ► Well, she was using the MacBook Pro.

00:32:08 ◼   ► She's been using it for months now.

00:32:10 ◼   ► Oh, that was when you got the Air.

00:32:13 ◼   ► Yeah, so when I got the M2 Air, I bought it initially to review it.

00:32:17 ◼   ► And then while I had it--

00:32:19 ◼   ► Right.

00:32:19 ◼   ► Like the Intel--

00:32:20 ◼   ► That was when the MacBook Pro--

00:32:21 ◼   ► The Intel Air was just like just falling apart.

00:32:23 ◼   ► I was like, OK.

00:32:24 ◼   ► OK.

00:32:25 ◼   ► Which one, Mary, which one do you want?

00:32:26 ◼   ► And I'll just take whatever you don't because at that time,

00:32:29 ◼   ► it was my secondary computer.

00:32:30 ◼   ► Well, she chose the MacBook Pro, leaving me with the M2 Air as my notebook.

00:32:35 ◼   ► And I love the M2 Air.

00:32:36 ◼   ► It's like an amazing laptop, but it's not enough for my daily.

00:32:39 ◼   ► And so I ended up with a second 14 inch MacBook Pro in the house.

00:32:43 ◼   ► OK, that makes sense.

00:32:45 ◼   ► So you have well, I'm not done.

00:32:47 ◼   ► So you have and you bought a new M1 Pro MacBook Pro.

00:32:53 ◼   ► This is an M2 Pro.

00:32:54 ◼   ► You bought the M2 Pro MacBook Pro.

00:32:57 ◼   ► Yep. OK.

00:32:58 ◼   ► But you also only have one studio display now.

00:33:02 ◼   ► Yes. You had two studio displays.

00:33:05 ◼   ► I did. Why do you now only have one studio?

00:33:07 ◼   ► Because I'm using the MacBook Pro open to the left of the studio display.

00:33:11 ◼   ► Do you like that? I hate that.

00:33:13 ◼   ► I do like it. I'm using it.

00:33:16 ◼   ► I don't like the screen so small when you got it far away.

00:33:19 ◼   ► Yeah, it is.

00:33:20 ◼   ► But the only thing like right now, I have Timery, Todoist and Audio Hijack over there.

00:33:26 ◼   ► And so it's just kind of like a status things

00:33:29 ◼   ► I kind of always want to keep my eye on.

00:33:31 ◼   ► And Zoom's over there, but I think head in at the moment.

00:33:33 ◼   ► And then all of the work on the main stereo display.

00:33:37 ◼   ► I could have definitely used the MacBook Pro in clamshell mode,

00:33:41 ◼   ► but ended up going with this.

00:33:42 ◼   ► And I actually really like it.

00:33:45 ◼   ► The other sort of benefit to this

00:33:48 ◼   ► is it's a much more mainstream setup than what

00:33:52 ◼   ► I've had in a long, long time.

00:33:54 ◼   ► I think there's something to be said for that too.

00:33:56 ◼   ► I mean, don't get me wrong, the Mac Studio was amazing.

00:33:59 ◼   ► I love the 2019 Mac Pro.

00:34:00 ◼   ► I cannot wait to buy another one in like 15 years

00:34:02 ◼   ► when they're super cheap on eBay.

00:34:04 ◼   ► But it's running a, you know,

00:34:08 ◼   ► like a 14-inch MacBook Pro and a studio display, very common.

00:34:11 ◼   ► And so it is nice to kind of be in the world

00:34:14 ◼   ► that a lot more people are in.

00:34:15 ◼   ► Like I've got a Thunderbolt dock and, you know,

00:34:17 ◼   ► kind of in that world where most listeners and readers are

00:34:21 ◼   ► has been, I think it's beneficial to a degree.

00:34:25 ◼   ► Stephen I need you to not listen for a minute I have to ask Federico something

00:34:29 ◼   ► don't worry about it it's just something I'll ask him you don't need to worry

00:34:32 ◼   ► about Federico yes what's he gonna do when that Mac Pro comes out he's gonna

00:34:37 ◼   ► buy it right yeah I know so like it's like oh so good living one computer and

00:34:42 ◼   ► then it's like we're gonna be gonna get to like I don't July it's like ah I've

00:34:46 ◼   ► got to see Mac Pro because it's so powerful and like you know I need it for

00:34:48 ◼   ► my work and yeah by the way living the two computer lifestyle so nice like

00:34:52 ◼   ► what's going to happen. It's gonna do that.

00:34:55 ◼   ► Someone recently asked me on

00:35:00 ◼   ► Mastodon something along the lines of

00:35:02 ◼   ► isn't it ironic that in your in your

00:35:05 ◼   ► line of work you're never going to be

00:35:07 ◼   ► truly satisfied and that hit me hard.

00:35:11 ◼   ► Oh that hurts. Wait, what are you doing?

00:35:13 ◼   ► Oh sorry. Go away. I realized, I realized, so that

00:35:17 ◼   ► hit me real hard. I was like yeah this

00:35:19 ◼   ► person is right but at the same time

00:35:21 ◼   ► At the same time, I realized that there's no one more emblematic than this problem than

00:35:27 ◼   ► Steven Hackett.

00:35:29 ◼   ► Yes, the most unsatisfied of all of us.

00:35:32 ◼   ► Like, we all have this problem.

00:35:35 ◼   ► We all have this problem.

00:35:38 ◼   ► But Steven really has this problem.

00:35:41 ◼   ► I think there's something nice in that feeling when it comes to technology.

00:35:44 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:35:45 ◼   ► Never been satisfied.

00:35:46 ◼   ► Because you're always on the lookout for something more.

00:35:47 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:35:48 ◼   ► We poke fun in good fun, you know, lighthearted fashion at Steven.

00:35:53 ◼   ► But actually, like, I think we're all a little bit,

00:35:56 ◼   ► there's a little Steven inside every one of us,

00:36:00 ◼   ► like in the sense that, in the sense that we, I mean,

00:36:07 ◼   ► it's, it's the nature of our work to always try things and

00:36:11 ◼   ► tweak and, and some people have made that like,

00:36:15 ◼   ► actually their career to constantly tinker and do this kind of stuff. But I think it's

00:36:24 ◼   ► fun. You can overdo it. I guess what I'm trying to say to Mike's point, you can overdo it,

00:36:29 ◼   ► but it's also fun at the same time. But Steven does it in a way that is always like you have

00:36:38 ◼   ► mastered, I think, this process of making an announcement and then flip-flopping on

00:36:47 ◼   ► that announcement. Like you've really, you know, made it your own as your thing, which

00:36:54 ◼   ► we appreciate. That is why ultimately Mike and I were just sad that you didn't tell us

00:37:00 ◼   ► on this show about it. Because we would have been supportive, you know, after some fun,

00:37:07 ◼   ► always we would have been supportive, you know? Yeah, because none of us will ever be satisfied.

00:37:13 ◼   ► Yeah, that's true. One reason it came up on MPU though is that David made a pledge that he was

00:37:19 ◼   ► not going to buy a new Mac in 2023. Which is stupid. He is not going to stick to that.

00:37:25 ◼   ► He's not going to stick to that. It's not going to happen. There's no way. And it did come up

00:37:30 ◼   ► very naturally in the episode because he's like, "We both have two Macs, right, Steven? Like,

00:37:35 ◼   ► Like I know why you had to say it at that moment, like it makes sense.

00:37:38 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:37:39 ◼   ► Anyway, so this Anker wired charger thing...

00:37:43 ◼   ► I forgot what we were talking about.

00:37:45 ◼   ► It's a triangle.

00:37:46 ◼   ► And previously it's been said that cubes were the best shape,

00:37:51 ◼   ► and Anker makes a little charging cube, which I think Federico is a fan of.

00:37:54 ◼   ► Are you going to buy the triangle charger?

00:37:58 ◼   ► No, they are doomed, because the cube is a superior shape, right?

00:38:04 ◼   ► The triangle. I mean, do you think it's a coincidence that everybody inside the pyramids is dead?

00:38:10 ◼   ► Hey, we have a pyramid here. There's lots of people in it.

00:38:13 ◼   ► Yeah, that's true.

00:38:14 ◼   ► No, it doesn't matter. Cubes are the better shape, more optimal, more perfect.

00:38:20 ◼   ► Cubes in history have survived multiple events.

00:38:26 ◼   ► What?

00:38:27 ◼   ► What?

00:38:28 ◼   ► I don't know what that means.

00:38:29 ◼   ► What?

00:38:29 ◼   ► I don't think he knew what that meant.

00:38:31 ◼   ► I have I think that there's a little bit of collusion going on here between Apple and Belkin.

00:38:36 ◼   ► Anchor, sorry.

00:38:36 ◼   ► Don't worry about Belkin, you can forget about them. I think that there's like a little collusion

00:38:44 ◼   ► going on because they've put... You're saying Belkin doesn't matter?

00:38:47 ◼   ► Wow. Wow.

00:38:49 ◼   ► Because they're getting out of the matter standard?

00:38:52 ◼   ► Yeah, but this is like we are seven stories deep now.

00:38:55 ◼   ► Explain it. You didn't need to explain it.

00:38:57 ◼   ► I have a joke to make and we're ruining my timing.

00:39:00 ◼   ► So I think that there's some collusion between Anchor and Apple here, right?

00:39:05 ◼   ► Because they want you to put your AirPods inside of the triangle.

00:39:09 ◼   ► And I feel like if you put it inside of the triangle, the AirPods are just going to go,

00:39:12 ◼   ► like they're going to go missing. It's going to be unexplained.

00:39:14 ◼   ► Kate tells me under this court,

00:39:17 ◼   ► "T'chi pyramids were specifically funerary monuments."

00:39:21 ◼   ► Yeah, exactly. Why do you think they put dead people inside the triangle shape?

00:39:25 ◼   ► Yeah, people are dying to get in.

00:39:26 ◼   ► (mumbles)

00:39:29 ◼   ► Also, just while we're in the Discord,

00:39:31 ◼   ► Fisher Guy says, "The show notes this week

00:39:33 ◼   ► are like more of a mind map."

00:39:35 ◼   ► (laughs)

00:39:36 ◼   ► Which is really good.

00:39:37 ◼   ► I feel like we should start making our show notes.

00:39:39 ◼   ► They should just be mind maps.

00:39:41 ◼   ► We should just see where that takes us.

00:39:43 ◼   ► I have no idea where any chapter markers

00:39:46 ◼   ► are gonna go so far.

00:39:48 ◼   ► You should just make one chapter marker

00:39:50 ◼   ► and just be like, it's not possible,

00:39:52 ◼   ► and then just leave it.

00:39:53 ◼   ► You know, I did that once.

00:39:55 ◼   ► We did a show several years ago that I think it was like all breaking news.

00:39:59 ◼   ► I did like 10 chapters that were all 10 seconds long and it was a sentence like

00:40:04 ◼   ► me apologizing for the lack of chapter markers. It was good.

00:40:08 ◼   ► It was peak chapter marker humor.

00:40:10 ◼   ► Do you think people like that or not? Not like that? Like,

00:40:14 ◼   ► I expect people didn't like that. What do you think?

00:40:17 ◼   ► I don't know. Probably not.

00:40:18 ◼   ► Who could tell?

00:40:19 ◼   ► Big news.

00:40:22 ◼   ► Automation April is back.

00:40:24 ◼   ► Federico, what's going on?

00:40:25 ◼   ► - It's coming back, second annual.

00:40:28 ◼   ► Now, you know, you've done the first annual,

00:40:30 ◼   ► now the second annual.

00:40:31 ◼   ► The Automation April event that we launched last year,

00:40:34 ◼   ► as I promised, I wanted to make it a tradition,

00:40:36 ◼   ► is coming back.

00:40:37 ◼   ► And so for those who missed it last year,

00:40:40 ◼   ► Automation April, it's a month-long event,

00:40:42 ◼   ► all about shortcuts automation.

00:40:43 ◼   ► - The URL, man.

00:40:45 ◼   ► - It's so long.

00:40:46 ◼   ► This URL is 500 words long.

00:40:51 ◼   ► - Maxstories.net/news/coming soon,

00:40:54 ◼   ► the second annual Automation April community event

00:40:56 ◼   ► featuring shortcuts, interviews, Discord, workshops,

00:40:59 ◼   ► and a shortcut contest.

00:41:00 ◼   ► - Jesus, it's the blood,

00:41:02 ◼   ► you can literally go to Automation April doc, like.

00:41:05 ◼   ► - I love this so much.

00:41:07 ◼   ► This is the best URL.

00:41:09 ◼   ► - This is the real John Voorhees move to not shorten it.

00:41:13 ◼   ► Like I would've just been like Automation April 2023.

00:41:16 ◼   ► - I never shortened the URLs either.

00:41:19 ◼   ► I mean, look at my stories.

00:41:20 ◼   ► I never do it.

00:41:21 ◼   ► - I love this.

00:41:22 ◼   ► This is so good.

00:41:23 ◼   ► - I love making jokes in my slugs.

00:41:26 ◼   ► It's always good.

00:41:27 ◼   ► - Well, that's because you're a pro blogger, we're not.

00:41:29 ◼   ► - Oh, they're all like this.

00:41:30 ◼   ► - It's the default behavior of WordPress, guys.

00:41:33 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:41:34 ◼   ► - Oh, I, look, don't ask me, I ain't no blogger.

00:41:36 ◼   ► - That's true.

00:41:37 ◼   ► - You know what I mean?

00:41:38 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:41:39 ◼   ► - It just looks funny when it's pasted like that.

00:41:41 ◼   ► Anyway.

00:41:41 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:41:42 ◼   ► - Automation April.

00:41:43 ◼   ► - Coming back, there's gonna be a contest

00:41:45 ◼   ► that's gonna run a little shorter than last year,

00:41:47 ◼   ► but you're still gonna have a couple of weeks

00:41:49 ◼   ► to make a shortcut and submit it.

00:41:51 ◼   ► There's gonna be a web app like last year

00:41:54 ◼   ► at automationinple.com.

00:41:56 ◼   ► You can use your existing club account

00:41:58 ◼   ► or app stories account, or if you're not a member,

00:42:02 ◼   ► you can just create a free account just for this.

00:42:04 ◼   ► Again, all like last year.

00:42:06 ◼   ► A few tweaks to the categories of the contest.

00:42:09 ◼   ► We are replacing the HomeKit category with the HealthKit one

00:42:14 ◼   ► in fact, because we realized it's much easier

00:42:17 ◼   ► to make and share a health kit based shortcut

00:42:20 ◼   ► with other people than a home kit one.

00:42:22 ◼   ► Because with health kit,

00:42:23 ◼   ► you know, the health kit actions in shortcuts,

00:42:27 ◼   ► they adapt to my iPhone and my Apple watch.

00:42:30 ◼   ► But if I don't have the same garage door as you,

00:42:34 ◼   ► there's very little I can do with the shortcut.

00:42:36 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:42:38 ◼   ► - You can come up with my garage door.

00:42:38 ◼   ► - High barrier to entry on those shortcuts.

00:42:41 ◼   ► - Exactly.

00:42:42 ◼   ► So we are replacing the health kit category

00:42:46 ◼   ► with the HomeKit category with the HellKit one.

00:42:48 ◼   ► There's a few updates in the lineup of judges

00:42:51 ◼   ► for the Automation Airport contest.

00:42:54 ◼   ► Notably, we are introducing the winner

00:42:57 ◼   ► of the best overall shortcut from last year.

00:43:01 ◼   ► Jack Welborn is gonna be a judge,

00:43:03 ◼   ► graduating from winner last year to judge this year.

00:43:07 ◼   ► Yeah, thank you.

00:43:08 ◼   ► - Let me ask you a question.

00:43:09 ◼   ► Is that now a prize or is that like,

00:43:11 ◼   ► not necessarily gonna happen?

00:43:13 ◼   ► - Well, it's a perk.

00:43:14 ◼   ► I think it's a perk.

00:43:16 ◼   ► - If you win, you get the option to become--

00:43:18 ◼   ► - You get the option, and mostly just, you know,

00:43:20 ◼   ► Jack will be able to participate again next year.

00:43:22 ◼   ► 'Cause I wanna prevent people from winning

00:43:25 ◼   ► multiple years in a row. - That's smart.

00:43:27 ◼   ► - I just wanna, you know, have a little,

00:43:28 ◼   ► a little, you know, different takes on shortcut automation.

00:43:31 ◼   ► - Yeah, I like it.

00:43:32 ◼   ► - And then we're gonna learn from last year.

00:43:34 ◼   ► We're gonna do what worked and not do what didn't work.

00:43:37 ◼   ► So you can expect articles on Mac stories.

00:43:40 ◼   ► I have a pretty sweet shortcut I'm working on.

00:43:44 ◼   ► going to be... Are you going to try and win? Are you like entering the contest? No, no, I'm a judge.

00:43:49 ◼   ► Can you imagine? The winner this year is me, baby! Collusion! I'm the best at shortcuts! I won, I'm the best!

00:43:56 ◼   ► It's gonna be... So there's gonna be articles and max stories, there's gonna be shortcuts on max

00:44:03 ◼   ► stories weekly. I'm gonna do... I really want to do like at least a couple of Automation Academy

00:44:08 ◼   ► lessons for more advanced explanations of shortcuts, especially episodes of App Stories.

00:44:15 ◼   ► We're going to interview some people about shortcuts and what changes in their automation

00:44:19 ◼   ► setup and we're going to do again the workshops in Discord.

00:44:25 ◼   ► Get together, take questions, like technical questions from people about shortcuts and

00:44:30 ◼   ► answer those questions.

00:44:31 ◼   ► Maybe Jack will be able to join us there as well or some other of our judges will need

00:44:35 ◼   ► to, we'll have more details in terms of schedule and plans to share in the future as well as

00:44:41 ◼   ► details for the prizes for the contest.

00:44:46 ◼   ► All of this is kicking off April 3rd.

00:44:49 ◼   ► This is just a little teaser that we wanted to put out today and there's lots more coming

00:44:56 ◼   ► out soon.

00:44:57 ◼   ► I have, like I said, some shortcuts that I've been working on and some more technical explanations

00:45:04 ◼   ► that I'm gonna save for the club,

00:45:06 ◼   ► plus some premier members.

00:45:08 ◼   ► But yeah, we're doing this again,

00:45:10 ◼   ► before WWDC, fun little tradition, and I'm excited.

00:45:14 ◼   ► I love it, and it's a great time of year

00:45:16 ◼   ► because I mean, the spring is like pretty quiet normally.

00:45:19 ◼   ► Nothing else is going, yes, yes.

00:45:21 ◼   ► Now last year this did, we made fun of you for it,

00:45:24 ◼   ► it spread into May, and then I think-

00:45:27 ◼   ► Into May.

00:45:28 ◼   ► Oh, it will again, it will again,

00:45:30 ◼   ► because we need a couple of weeks

00:45:32 ◼   ► to adjudicate all of the different shortcuts.

00:45:34 ◼   ► And people last year, they sent a lot of shortcuts.

00:45:37 ◼   ► - Do you know how many you got last year?

00:45:39 ◼   ► Are you willing to share if you remember?

00:45:40 ◼   ► - Oh, I don't actually remember the full number.

00:45:45 ◼   ► I wanna say that it was hundreds, it was not 1,000,

00:45:50 ◼   ► but it was like, oh gosh, am I getting this wrong?

00:45:55 ◼   ► Am I making this up that it was like 700 or something?

00:46:00 ◼   ► Did I make this up?

00:46:01 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:46:01 ◼   ► - I probably made this up.

00:46:03 ◼   ► - I just assigned John the task to tell us.

00:46:06 ◼   ► - Yes, perfect.

00:46:07 ◼   ► - I can tell you, it was a lot of shortcuts

00:46:10 ◼   ► and we needed to sift through all of them.

00:46:13 ◼   ► I also want to say--

00:46:14 ◼   ► - John replied to the shrug.

00:46:16 ◼   ► - That was not helpful.

00:46:20 ◼   ► - I also wanted to say that if you sent a shortcut last year

00:46:24 ◼   ► and you didn't win in any category,

00:46:27 ◼   ► but you sent it last year already,

00:46:29 ◼   ► But over the past year, maybe you've tweaked the shortcut

00:46:32 ◼   ► and you've changed the shortcut a little,

00:46:34 ◼   ► you can send it again.

00:46:35 ◼   ► I mean, especially because, and I'm very aware of this,

00:46:39 ◼   ► shortcuts hasn't changed a lot over the past year.

00:46:42 ◼   ► There are some new actions, some new things you can do,

00:46:44 ◼   ► but it's very likely that some of your more advanced

00:46:47 ◼   ► shortcuts, you haven't been able to change them so much.

00:46:51 ◼   ► So it's fine.

00:46:52 ◼   ► As long as you didn't win in any existing category

00:46:55 ◼   ► last year, again, I don't wanna have repeat winners,

00:46:57 ◼   ► like the same shortcut to winning over and over and over.

00:47:00 ◼   ► I don't think that's useful to anybody.

00:47:03 ◼   ► But if you sent it last year, you didn't win anything,

00:47:06 ◼   ► hey, send it again, you know, it's fine.

00:47:08 ◼   ► - Real time follow up.

00:47:10 ◼   ► According to maxstories.net,

00:47:13 ◼   ► you had over 200 shortcuts submitted.

00:47:16 ◼   ► - Okay, good. - That's awesome.

00:47:17 ◼   ► - All right, okay, nice, yeah.

00:47:19 ◼   ► - Yeah, I'm glad you're doing it again.

00:47:20 ◼   ► And I know it's a lot of work, but it is so much fun.

00:47:23 ◼   ► So thank you for doing it.

00:47:25 ◼   ► This episode of Connected is brought to you by Electric.

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00:48:57 ◼   ► It is beyond mirror iPhone rumor season.

00:49:01 ◼   ► We are now in iPhone cad leak season.

00:49:04 ◼   ► - Oh nice.

00:49:05 ◼   ► - My favorite leveling up of the rumors

00:49:07 ◼   ► when we start to get images.

00:49:08 ◼   ► And I know Mike and Jason have talked about this

00:49:11 ◼   ► on upgrade and these stories have been kind of leaking out

00:49:14 ◼   ► over the last couple of weeks.

00:49:15 ◼   ► But I wanna talk about them here in particular

00:49:17 ◼   ► because of the mute switch.

00:49:19 ◼   ► So amongst the rumors of the new iPhone,

00:49:23 ◼   ► there are reports that those buttons on the side,

00:49:26 ◼   ► on the left-hand side,

00:49:27 ◼   ► so the mute ringer switch and the volume up and down,

00:49:30 ◼   ► that those are gonna really get their first big change

00:49:33 ◼   ► in a long time.

00:49:35 ◼   ► I mean, the ringer switch dates back

00:49:36 ◼   ► to the original iPhone in 2007.

00:49:39 ◼   ► It's maybe like the most stable part

00:49:42 ◼   ► of the iPhone design ever.

00:49:45 ◼   ► And- - They even kept the orange.

00:49:47 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's orange.

00:49:48 ◼   ► - Unless some, now some phones it's white, so.

00:49:51 ◼   ► - What?

00:49:52 ◼   ► - Yeah, instead of orange it's white on some phones.

00:49:54 ◼   ► - Huh.

00:49:55 ◼   ► - If you have like some of the product red phones

00:49:58 ◼   ► and I think some of the 5Cs, like the red,

00:50:02 ◼   ► or the kind of red orange they use,

00:50:03 ◼   ► the design of contrast, but.

00:50:05 ◼   ► - Some people would say that the amount of information

00:50:08 ◼   ► that you have is useless.

00:50:10 ◼   ► I would say it is not at all, because I did not know that.

00:50:13 ◼   ► And I would hazard to say most people listening to this show

00:50:16 ◼   ► just went, huh, like me, because nobody knows that

00:50:19 ◼   ► except you, so thank you.

00:50:21 ◼   ► - And so some of these rumors

00:50:23 ◼   ► that these phones are gonna be capacitive,

00:50:26 ◼   ► like touch sensitive buttons,

00:50:28 ◼   ► and that there's like the pressing type mute buttons

00:50:30 ◼   ► I think we've spoken about before,

00:50:31 ◼   ► which is very hard to understand.

00:50:33 ◼   ► Maybe it clicks in and stays there and then clicks back out.

00:50:36 ◼   ► But Federico, I know this morning on Mastodon

00:50:38 ◼   ► you were talking about the mute switch,

00:50:40 ◼   ► and I wanted to see if you would unpack that here for us.

00:50:43 ◼   ► - I was talking and the people attacked me.

00:50:46 ◼   ► Well, hang on, I think you shot first, to be fair.

00:50:49 ◼   ► That's a Star Trek reference.

00:50:51 ◼   ► But then I was attacked.

00:50:52 ◼   ► I was attacked, but I wasn't really.

00:50:53 ◼   ► I just like to say the word attacked.

00:50:55 ◼   ► I think it sounds cool.

00:50:57 ◼   ► He attacked, you know?

00:51:00 ◼   ► So I have thoughts.

00:51:01 ◼   ► I have strong opinions about this, okay?

00:51:06 ◼   ► And I know that I am going to upset a portion

00:51:10 ◼   ► of the listeners, including one of my co-hosts, I think.

00:51:14 ◼   ► And I wanted to say, and don't take this the wrong way,

00:51:18 ◼   ► take this in a very loving way.

00:51:20 ◼   ► I don't care because it's my opinion.

00:51:23 ◼   ► - What does that mean?

00:51:24 ◼   ► You don't care if you upset people,

00:51:26 ◼   ► is that what you're saying?

00:51:27 ◼   ► - Well, it's like, when someone tells you,

00:51:28 ◼   ► well, I don't care.

00:51:30 ◼   ► Like, I'm not being aggressive here.

00:51:32 ◼   ► I'm just saying, I don't care if you disagree with me

00:51:35 ◼   ► because I firmly believe in my opinion.

00:51:37 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:51:38 ◼   ► - And I'm going to explain why my opinion is the best one.

00:51:41 ◼   ► - There it is.

00:51:42 ◼   ► - Okay?

00:51:43 ◼   ► you don't have to be like that, do you?

00:51:45 ◼   ► - Well, I can, I can and I will.

00:51:47 ◼   ► - No, no, no, no, I didn't say you can't be like that.

00:51:51 ◼   ► I said you don't have to, right?

00:51:54 ◼   ► These are two different things.

00:51:56 ◼   ► - Come on, this is what people want from this podcast

00:51:59 ◼   ► and you know it.

00:52:00 ◼   ► It's like, oh no, let's just have a serious conversation.

00:52:03 ◼   ► No, it's opinions, okay?

00:52:06 ◼   ► All right, so this idea,

00:52:08 ◼   ► so we've been talking about this idea

00:52:10 ◼   ► of Apple bringing a solid state button

00:52:11 ◼   ► instead of the physical ringer switch to the iPhone for months.

00:52:16 ◼   ► And there are people who have welcomed the idea and there have been other people

00:52:19 ◼   ► like you to an extent, Michael, firmly rejecting this idea of...

00:52:25 ◼   ► Can you point to where I firmly rejected?

00:52:27 ◼   ► Well, on upgrade for example.

00:52:28 ◼   ► I didn't firmly reject. I've never firmly rejected.

00:52:31 ◼   ► Okay, well maybe it's my impression.

00:52:34 ◼   ► You have concerns, but I can tell you that there are people,

00:52:37 ◼   ► there are other people on Mastodon and in the online places firmly rejecting the idea

00:52:44 ◼   ► of the ringer switch going away. Okay. And I tend to see, and I tend to see this argument

00:52:51 ◼   ► develop over, you know, across the online places of like, oh, but if, if the ringer

00:52:58 ◼   ► switch goes away, how will I be able to feel the mute switch in my pocket?

00:53:04 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:53:05 ◼   ► This is the single most absurd theory I've heard in a long time.

00:53:11 ◼   ► Theory of what?

00:53:13 ◼   ► This idea that a lot of people feel the mute switch in their pockets.

00:53:21 ◼   ► Who said a lot of people?

00:53:23 ◼   ► Well, the people who firmly believe in this idea seem to, you know,

00:53:27 ◼   ► co-operate with one another and say, "Oh, there's a lot of people like us."

00:53:31 ◼   ► And...

00:53:32 ◼   ► There's literally dozens of us.

00:53:34 ◼   ► - There are, exactly, you get my point.

00:53:36 ◼   ► There are multiple layers to this.

00:53:39 ◼   ► First is the feeling of the mute switch

00:53:41 ◼   ► and the other is obviously you're using a phone

00:53:43 ◼   ► without a case.

00:53:45 ◼   ► Because if, you know, I would say that if you're able

00:53:49 ◼   ► to quickly feel the ringer switch

00:53:51 ◼   ► is because your phone doesn't have a case on.

00:53:54 ◼   ► - I don't agree with that.

00:53:55 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:53:55 ◼   ► - I mean, it's easier when you don't have a case on,

00:53:57 ◼   ► but when I used to wear a case,

00:53:58 ◼   ► I used to be able to feel it.

00:53:59 ◼   ► - So please tell me, please tell me with the leather,

00:54:02 ◼   ► with the Apple leather case, for example.

00:54:03 ◼   ► - I've never used those, I use the silicone cases.

00:54:05 ◼   ► - Well, see, so like, I just feel like-

00:54:08 ◼   ► - Silicone cases. - Most people would find it

00:54:11 ◼   ► challenging to feel this,

00:54:13 ◼   ► but there's two layers to this.

00:54:15 ◼   ► - And the Apple cases are just like one type.

00:54:18 ◼   ► A lot of people use cases that are much bulkier

00:54:21 ◼   ► than the Apple ones. - Exactly, or cheaper

00:54:23 ◼   ► than the Apple ones.

00:54:25 ◼   ► So first of all, and I said it before,

00:54:28 ◼   ► this idea of, oh, I use my phone without a case.

00:54:31 ◼   ► This is by and large, I'm just gonna read straight

00:54:34 ◼   ► from my notes, this is a rich nerd delusion.

00:54:37 ◼   ► - This is, why?

00:54:38 ◼   ► What does that mean?

00:54:39 ◼   ► - Because most people who spend a lot of money on a phone,

00:54:44 ◼   ► they wanna put it immediately in a case.

00:54:48 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:54:48 ◼   ► - This idea that, oh, AppleCare is my case, no.

00:54:51 ◼   ► - That's not, I don't even have AppleCare.

00:54:53 ◼   ► - Okay, so you just like to live dangerously.

00:54:55 ◼   ► - AppleCare's a scam.

00:54:56 ◼   ► No, I've never broken an iPhone, except the one

00:54:59 ◼   ► Well good for you!

00:55:00 ◼   ► I quote unquote dropped to get the screen replaced.

00:55:03 ◼   ► Yeah, what's that like?

00:55:04 ◼   ► But you gotta...

00:55:05 ◼   ► Would you agree?

00:55:06 ◼   ► Would you agree that most people just,

00:55:10 ◼   ► they take the phone and they put it in the case right away?

00:55:13 ◼   ► Definitely.

00:55:13 ◼   ► Because I used to be that person.

00:55:15 ◼   ► But like to go back to what you were saying before,

00:55:16 ◼   ► I was that person and I could still use it because I used the silicon case

00:55:20 ◼   ► because I'm not made of money and buying the leather case.

00:55:22 ◼   ► Would you believe that you are one of the few that do this?

00:55:25 ◼   ► Oh, 100%.

00:55:26 ◼   ► I don't think so.

00:55:26 ◼   ► Okay, good. All right, cool.

00:55:27 ◼   ► So we are in agreement.

00:55:28 ◼   ► This is... when I'm saying the thing that I'm concerned about is you won't be able to feel the thing

00:55:34 ◼   ► is that's just a thing that I do, so it'll bother me.

00:55:37 ◼   ► I don't think everyone's doing what I'm doing, which is like always... you know, you go into the theater

00:55:41 ◼   ► and they're like "make sure your phone's on silent" and I can just reach into my pocket and check.

00:55:45 ◼   ► Okay, well let's get to the second layer of this ringer switch onion.

00:55:51 ◼   ► This idea that you just feel the mute switch.

00:55:55 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:55:56 ◼   ► This is where I'm getting stuck upon.

00:55:59 ◼   ► I would say that 90% of people in my life,

00:56:04 ◼   ► you know what, I'm actually gonna say 99% of people

00:56:08 ◼   ► in my life that I know in real life,

00:56:10 ◼   ► everybody I know, rightfully so, keeps their phone silent.

00:56:15 ◼   ► - Yes, that's the only thing you should do.

00:56:19 ◼   ► - You don't wanna be the guy with, you know,

00:56:22 ◼   ► why, if you don't have silent mode on,

00:56:25 ◼   ► And again, there are exceptions.

00:56:27 ◼   ► I can understand why, for example,

00:56:30 ◼   ► an elder relative needs to have--

00:56:32 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:56:34 ◼   ► - Ground down by the opinions of the internet.

00:56:37 ◼   ► - You know, I am getting, I am just statistically speaking,

00:56:42 ◼   ► most people should keep their phone silent.

00:56:46 ◼   ► And especially, let's make it even more precise,

00:56:51 ◼   ► especially the people who listen to this podcast.

00:56:55 ◼   ► I would wager they have their phone silent because they have AirPods,

00:56:59 ◼   ► because they have an Apple Watch,

00:57:01 ◼   ► because they have an iPhone with the haptic feedback thing.

00:57:03 ◼   ► They can feel the phone is ringing.

00:57:04 ◼   ► And we all get so many notifications, like who wants their phone to just go like...

00:57:08 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:57:09 ◼   ► How often do most people really need to dig in there, in their pocket,

00:57:18 ◼   ► and be like, "Let me check the mute switch."

00:57:21 ◼   ► Who is doing this?

00:57:23 ◼   ► Who is doing...

00:57:24 ◼   ► Okay, Mike, why are you doing this?

00:57:28 ◼   ► I just said it, right? You go to the theatre or something, right?

00:57:31 ◼   ► Or you go to a movie and they're like, make sure your phone's on silent

00:57:34 ◼   ► and I just reach in and I can just do it. I could just do it by feel.

00:57:38 ◼   ► All right, cool.

00:57:40 ◼   ► Let me ask you.

00:57:40 ◼   ► You do this because it's been available for a long time, forever on the phone.

00:57:45 ◼   ► You've gotten used to it.

00:57:47 ◼   ► OK. Yep.

00:57:49 ◼   ► Don't you think it's a little bit of a waste of

00:57:52 ◼   ► physical space on an iPhone to have a switch that you and few others at the theater, they

00:58:02 ◼   ► feel where, whereas the vast majority of people keep their phones silent all the time and

00:58:11 ◼   ► are at this point maybe just used to doing a software based check-in with silent mode

00:58:19 ◼   ► like they do on the iPad, like they do on Apple watch.

00:58:22 ◼   ► Oh, I 100% would prefer there to be no switch at all.

00:58:25 ◼   ► And I could, my phone could just always be in silent. Like I'm not arguing for,

00:58:29 ◼   ► I'm not arguing that there's a switch.

00:58:31 ◼   ► I'm arguing that what they are rumored to be replacing it with is worse.

00:58:35 ◼   ► Let me ask you, are you sure that in this argument, deep down,

00:58:41 ◼   ► you don't already agree with me?

00:58:43 ◼   ► About what?

00:58:45 ◼   ► Deep down, you're in love with him.

00:58:47 ◼   ► That's obvious.

00:58:49 ◼   ► You know, you know, this is actually a strategy that I am.

00:58:51 ◼   ► - What I agree, I'm agreeing with the point

00:58:53 ◼   ► that you're making right now, which is like,

00:58:55 ◼   ► having a mute switch at all is not necessary.

00:58:59 ◼   ► I personally would prefer there to be no switch,

00:59:03 ◼   ► no button, nothing, and if I want to turn my phone

00:59:07 ◼   ► into loud mode, I just go to control center.

00:59:09 ◼   ► Like that's what I would prefer.

00:59:10 ◼   ► - Okay, good, all right, cool.

00:59:11 ◼   ► - But I don't like this idea of like,

00:59:13 ◼   ► if you're gonna have one, what they're rumored

00:59:15 ◼   ► to be replacing it with, which is a capacitive button

00:59:18 ◼   ► that has haptic feedback is worse in every possible way than what is currently on the phone.

00:59:23 ◼   ► Well, have you tried it?

00:59:24 ◼   ► But I can tell you, here's what I know what's going to happen, right?

00:59:27 ◼   ► So here's my thing.

00:59:28 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:59:29 ◼   ► They're going to say to me, like, I'm in somewhere,

00:59:32 ◼   ► like, please make sure your phone is on silent, right?

00:59:34 ◼   ► So I'm going to want to check that.

00:59:36 ◼   ► So like, I'll have to press, I'll press the button.

00:59:38 ◼   ► And then like, now I've turned it onto loud mode and I press it again to silence it.

00:59:44 ◼   ► Like, I just don't like this.

00:59:46 ◼   ► You know what it reminds me of?

00:59:48 ◼   ► It reminds me two things, USB-A and AirPods Pro 2.

00:59:52 ◼   ► Right? So you know like that old idea that every time you want to plug a USB

00:59:56 ◼   ► into the port you have to do it twice, once and then again and then again or

01:00:00 ◼   ► like two or three times because you always get it wrong?

01:00:02 ◼   ► I've been noticing this recently with AirPods Pro 2 where I'm in the street

01:00:05 ◼   ► and I'm like... because the adaptive transparency is so

01:00:09 ◼   ► good now that sometimes I think I have noise cancellation on

01:00:12 ◼   ► and the only way to check that is to do the thing and then I turn noise

01:00:17 ◼   ► cancellation, then it's a cycle. Alright, so let me tell you why your concerns are misplaced,

01:00:23 ◼   ► and why in two minutes you're gonna be in agreement with me. If you're gonna tell me I have to

01:00:28 ◼   ► look at my phone, like, that's fine, but then there's no point putting the button, that's what

01:00:32 ◼   ► I'm saying. If I have to look at the screen of my phone to see if I'm on silent mode, don't put the

01:00:36 ◼   ► - Well, let me explain, but let me explain.

01:00:40 ◼   ► I think so far we have assumed

01:00:45 ◼   ► that this replacement for this ringer switch

01:00:49 ◼   ► is gonna be a ringer switch.

01:00:51 ◼   ► I think there's a much better opportunity for Apple here

01:00:54 ◼   ► to take that physical space up there

01:00:57 ◼   ► in the upper left corner of the iPhone

01:00:59 ◼   ► and do something much more interesting with it.

01:01:02 ◼   ► I wanna believe, and you know,

01:01:06 ◼   ► pretty convinced actually that Apple realized, look,

01:01:10 ◼   ► we have this space here and people are used to reach out

01:01:14 ◼   ► to this button here.

01:01:15 ◼   ► But most people we have discovered, you know, 15 years,

01:01:19 ◼   ► whatever, into the iPhone's existence,

01:01:21 ◼   ► that most people keep their phone silent anyway.

01:01:23 ◼   ► Like that's just modern life and how it is,

01:01:26 ◼   ► a modern social etiquette, whatever.

01:01:29 ◼   ► I think there's a much better opportunity for Apple here

01:01:31 ◼   ► to do a couple of things.

01:01:32 ◼   ► First of all, to communicate in a couple of different ways,

01:01:35 ◼   ► whether silent mode is on or off.

01:01:37 ◼   ► You could consider a control center widget tile thing,

01:01:42 ◼   ► or even for those more preoccupied than most people,

01:01:47 ◼   ► whether it's on or off, a status bar icon.

01:01:50 ◼   ► Like I could imagine a little status bar indicator

01:01:53 ◼   ► that tells you, hey, silent mode is actually off,

01:01:56 ◼   ► your phone is gonna make a sound.

01:01:57 ◼   ► So they can consider control center

01:01:59 ◼   ► or even a status bar icon.

01:02:02 ◼   ► But I think there's a lot of potential here

01:02:04 ◼   ► for a brand new type of button on the iPhone, think of it like, you know, it's like the action

01:02:11 ◼   ► button on the Apple Watch Ultra. There is a programmable button that you can use to save

01:02:18 ◼   ► time on your phone to do whatever asterisk you want to do with that button. The asterisk being

01:02:25 ◼   ► whatever within, you know, certain types of actions that Apple has pre-programmed for you.

01:02:31 ◼   ► So for example, imagine if you could press the button for immediate flashlight,

01:02:37 ◼   ► press the button to open a messages conversation,

01:02:40 ◼   ► press the button for Siri. Well, no, Siri is already on the other button.

01:02:43 ◼   ► Press the button for a shortcut, press the button for a camera.

01:02:46 ◼   ► Like, imagine all the different things you could do with it.

01:02:49 ◼   ► Imagine if it sounds lovely.

01:02:51 ◼   ► And the other thing I want to mention is,

01:02:54 ◼   ► by making silent mode rather than being tied to a physical switch,

01:03:01 ◼   ► If they are going to go the software way with it, it becomes a lot more useful and a lot more flexible when you consider how focus modes and shortcuts could integrate with it.

01:03:12 ◼   ► Now you would be able to have a focus mode where your phone actually makes sounds in certain situations, but where you must absolutely hear if someone is calling you.

01:03:24 ◼   ► And the opposite is also true. You could also turn it off with a shortcut or with a focus mode.

01:03:29 ◼   ► So I think the change I want to see is not just, yeah, we redid the physical switch,

01:03:38 ◼   ► which by the way, I would still welcome if it's still a physical switch.

01:03:43 ◼   ► If it's only for the ringer switch, I'm sorry, because I find the current design,

01:03:48 ◼   ► and I have always found the current design impossible to operate with the case on.

01:03:55 ◼   ► I'm trying now with my finger and I just cannot toggle it.

01:03:59 ◼   ► I just cannot do it.

01:04:01 ◼   ► Interesting.

01:04:02 ◼   ► But second, I want to hope that they actually go beyond this

01:04:06 ◼   ► and that their thinking is, well, let's actually do something a little more useful and fun with that spot.

01:04:13 ◼   ► We're going to do brand new buttons and we're going to let people choose what to do with it.

01:04:18 ◼   ► It would be very nice if that was the case.

01:04:21 ◼   ► I told you.

01:04:22 ◼   ► I will say though, I have a thing I had a thought today, right?

01:04:25 ◼   ► So these are in theory, you're going to get three capacitive buttons, right?

01:04:29 ◼   ► On the phone cases are going to be worse.

01:04:32 ◼   ► They're going to have three cutouts, right?

01:04:34 ◼   ► If it's capacitive, it needs to know that your fingers touching it to operate.

01:04:39 ◼   ► So you're going to have cases.

01:04:40 ◼   ► It's going to be full of cutouts.

01:04:41 ◼   ► You know, we're getting used to that.

01:04:45 ◼   ► We got used to many things in life.

01:04:46 ◼   ► It's won't kill you to have two more cutouts, you know, whatever.

01:04:51 ◼   ► I mean in one kill you don't use a case. I would like to believe that it would be better.

01:04:56 ◼   ► I hope it will be better, which is why I'm not like against it. Like I'm willing to see what they've got.

01:04:59 ◼   ► But I think the idea, the thing that I've had of like just being able to reach into my pocket and tell that my phone is easily on silent.

01:05:06 ◼   ► I think that that would just have to change. But I would be willing to give that up if I could have more software control over what is like, what makes noise and what doesn't.

01:05:15 ◼   ► That would be cool.

01:05:16 ◼   ► I think it's super interesting.

01:05:19 ◼   ► They could go a bunch of different ways

01:05:21 ◼   ► and the fact that it has been the same for so long,

01:05:24 ◼   ► like it's just really wild to think about.

01:05:27 ◼   ► And I think if we look at the iPhone 7,

01:05:30 ◼   ► was it the 7 that was the first

01:05:31 ◼   ► with the capacitive home button?

01:05:33 ◼   ► I think it was.

01:05:34 ◼   ► Yes.

01:05:36 ◼   ► You know, that is an interesting example

01:05:38 ◼   ► because it was a physical switch that was capacitive

01:05:42 ◼   ► and they did the Taptic Engine and stuff

01:05:44 ◼   ► that didn't last very long, right?

01:05:46 ◼   ► 'Cause it was the seven, the eight,

01:05:48 ◼   ► and then we went to the 10.

01:05:50 ◼   ► But I think they did a pretty good job with that.

01:05:52 ◼   ► I mean, it was a little weird to get used to,

01:05:56 ◼   ► but I think, you know, it did the job

01:05:58 ◼   ► and it was, I think, a lot more robust

01:06:00 ◼   ► than the previous home buttons.

01:06:02 ◼   ► I mean, I think everyone at some point or another

01:06:05 ◼   ► had experienced a home button failure

01:06:07 ◼   ► on an iPhone before that.

01:06:09 ◼   ► So they can do it.

01:06:11 ◼   ► It's just gonna be interesting to see what they do.

01:06:15 ◼   ► It also reminds me of the iPad.

01:06:18 ◼   ► For a while, the first several iterations,

01:06:20 ◼   ► the iPad had a switch on the side,

01:06:24 ◼   ► and you could, eventually, you could use it

01:06:27 ◼   ► for either orientation lock, which is how I used it,

01:06:31 ◼   ► or mute ringer.

01:06:33 ◼   ► And I don't think orientation locks matters nearly

01:06:38 ◼   ► as much on the phone as it does on the iPad,

01:06:40 ◼   ► But there is some precedence for Apple having a Switch

01:06:43 ◼   ► and then having software to like tell the Switch what to do.

01:06:46 ◼   ► - Nice good memory.

01:06:48 ◼   ► - Yeah, so I am hopeful that we do get

01:06:50 ◼   ► some more customization like you're talking about Federico.

01:06:52 ◼   ► I think it'd be really interesting

01:06:54 ◼   ► and the Apple Watch Ultra is right there

01:06:55 ◼   ► and you know, actually button it up, that's what I say.

01:06:58 ◼   ► - I'm not gonna like when I can't change the volume

01:07:03 ◼   ► of my iPhone just by like pressing the buttons

01:07:06 ◼   ► through my jeans or whatever though.

01:07:08 ◼   ► That's gonna be annoying too.

01:07:09 ◼   ► So you have a finger that will have to physically touch the button, right? To change the volume?

01:07:12 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:07:13 ◼   ► Yeah, and maybe there'll be issues with like gloves and other stuff. We just don't know yet.

01:07:17 ◼   ► Although we'll just have to see. For sure. Yeah, with gloves.

01:07:20 ◼   ► Yeah. Although, I mean, I think a lot of people, including me, like even my like pretty good winter gloves,

01:07:26 ◼   ► have, you know, the index fingers have like a passive material sewn on now.

01:07:30 ◼   ► Yeah, I don't have that. I don't like the way that looks.

01:07:33 ◼   ► Yeah, well, I mean.

01:07:34 ◼   ► It's like very ET, like weird little pat on your finger or something.

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01:09:35 ◼   ► - Have you guys heard of artificial intelligence?

01:09:40 ◼   ► Have you come across this before?

01:09:42 ◼   ► - I think I, is it the thing,

01:09:45 ◼   ► is it the thing that they use in video games

01:09:47 ◼   ► so that the goombas can kill you?

01:09:49 ◼   ► - Yes, so artificial intelligence was created

01:09:52 ◼   ► by Shigeru Miyamoto in 19--

01:09:54 ◼   ► - Right, right, right.

01:09:55 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, I'm familiar, I'm familiar.

01:09:57 ◼   ► Yes. So Stephen, I think put this in the document.

01:10:01 ◼   ► I have felt like the AI things we have out there,

01:10:04 ◼   ► like everything from mid journey to chat, GPT, everything in between.

01:10:08 ◼   ► They're interesting. Obviously with Bing, they've been productized,

01:10:11 ◼   ► but Microsoft has announced Microsoft 365 co-pilot.

01:10:17 ◼   ► Co-pilot you may recognize that's branding from GitHub, which Microsoft owns,

01:10:20 ◼   ► where their AI can like help you write code. And some people love it.

01:10:25 ◼   ► Some people hate it.

01:10:26 ◼   ► That's not the debate today.

01:10:28 ◼   ► But they're bringing like features to Microsoft 365.

01:10:33 ◼   ► And this means that when you are in an Office application,

01:10:38 ◼   ► so say that you are in Word or you're in Excel or PowerPoint

01:10:43 ◼   ► or their new Notion competitor kind of is actually in beta,

01:10:48 ◼   ► I think as of today.

01:10:49 ◼   ► - I did not know that was a thing that they did,

01:10:51 ◼   ► but it makes perfect sense.

01:10:52 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:10:53 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's actually pretty nice, yeah.

01:10:54 ◼   ► - Yeah, it looks awesome.

01:10:56 ◼   ► I wanna play with it.

01:10:57 ◼   ► But they're bringing this into their apps.

01:11:01 ◼   ► And you may think if you're of a certain age,

01:11:03 ◼   ► Steven, this sounds like Clippy.

01:11:05 ◼   ► It looks like you're trying to write a letter.

01:11:07 ◼   ► Let me help you.

01:11:08 ◼   ► Hopefully it's better than that, but it's very similar.

01:11:12 ◼   ► - What if Clippy had a brain?

01:11:14 ◼   ► - Yeah, exactly.

01:11:16 ◼   ► What if Clippy was powered by thousands of GPUs in the cloud?

01:11:19 ◼   ► And so you can use within the applications,

01:11:24 ◼   ► these tools to complete CERNet tasks?

01:11:27 ◼   ► - Oh my God, this is just Notion.

01:11:29 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's literally Notion.

01:11:31 ◼   ► Yes, it's literally Notion.

01:11:32 ◼   ► - They just made Notion.

01:11:33 ◼   ► Man, Microsoft are relentless right now.

01:11:37 ◼   ► - They are ruthless, yes.

01:11:39 ◼   ► - I kind of, it's interesting.

01:11:41 ◼   ► I kind of like it in a way,

01:11:42 ◼   ► kind of don't like it in other ways,

01:11:43 ◼   ► but like it is fascinating to watch.

01:11:45 ◼   ► And it's just like, who would have thought,

01:11:48 ◼   ► I'm sorry, I'm stepping on your topic right now.

01:11:49 ◼   ► - No, no, you're good.

01:11:50 ◼   ► - But like who would have thought

01:11:52 ◼   ► that we'd be back here again,

01:11:53 ◼   ► where Microsoft are like dangerous.

01:11:57 ◼   ► You know, it's just like they have all of it, you know,

01:12:00 ◼   ► like they are ready to go and they're going to gobble gobble

01:12:03 ◼   ► gobble all the competition.

01:12:05 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:12:06 ◼   ► Yeah, and as Kate points out, Notion has AI features too.

01:12:08 ◼   ► It's in a lot of places now.

01:12:09 ◼   ► Yeah, but it kind of doesn't matter, right?

01:12:11 ◼   ► Like this is the Microsoft thing right now.

01:12:12 ◼   ► It's like why teams have destroyed Slack.

01:12:14 ◼   ► It doesn't matter that employees--

01:12:17 ◼   ► sorry, it doesn't matter that other apps have it.

01:12:19 ◼   ► The issue is Microsoft come in and say, well,

01:12:22 ◼   ► you're already paying for this.

01:12:23 ◼   ► So we can give it for free or basically free.

01:12:26 ◼   ► So it doesn't matter what their competitors have.

01:12:29 ◼   ► Microsoft are able to take up so much ground right now

01:12:31 ◼   ► because business runs on Office anyway.

01:12:34 ◼   ► And so it's like, if they even have a mildly good version

01:12:38 ◼   ► of it, it's going to be better for your business

01:12:41 ◼   ► than if you use whatever, right?

01:12:43 ◼   ► So that's what they're doing and it's genius.

01:12:45 ◼   ► - Yeah, and so we have a collection of links

01:12:46 ◼   ► in the show notes.

01:12:47 ◼   ► You can go and read through them.

01:12:51 ◼   ► It's about some of the things that this can do.

01:12:54 ◼   ► So you can do sort of the,

01:12:56 ◼   ► hey, I need a letter that says this and this style

01:13:00 ◼   ► and it will put something together.

01:13:01 ◼   ► But you can also give co-pilot documents

01:13:06 ◼   ► or access to documents and it will summarize them.

01:13:09 ◼   ► It can be present on a Teams meeting

01:13:14 ◼   ► and give you notes from the meeting,

01:13:18 ◼   ► like all sorts of stuff.

01:13:20 ◼   ► And this is, it's a very small program right now.

01:13:24 ◼   ► Like I don't think anyone just has access to it yet,

01:13:27 ◼   ► but it's gonna be coming.

01:13:29 ◼   ► And it's interesting to me because it's Microsoft.

01:13:33 ◼   ► And like you said,

01:13:34 ◼   ► Microsoft is like eating its Wheaties all of a sudden.

01:13:36 ◼   ► It's like ready to go.

01:13:38 ◼   ► But this is where I think a lot of, you know,

01:13:41 ◼   ► sort of regular people who don't listen to tech podcasts,

01:13:44 ◼   ► who just have, you know,

01:13:45 ◼   ► regular jobs that they use Office all day, every day,

01:13:48 ◼   ► it's gonna be their first experience

01:13:50 ◼   ► with some of this technology,

01:13:51 ◼   ► and that feels like a really big deal to me.

01:13:54 ◼   ► It feels like, okay,

01:13:56 ◼   ► and being with sort of step one of this,

01:13:58 ◼   ► but being as really small,

01:13:59 ◼   ► so office I think is much bigger,

01:14:01 ◼   ► this is where people are just gonna come across this

01:14:05 ◼   ► during their day and use it.

01:14:07 ◼   ► And they may not fully understand what it can or can't do

01:14:11 ◼   ► or what it is or isn't good at.

01:14:14 ◼   ► I think that will have to be,

01:14:16 ◼   ► that will have to be shaken out

01:14:18 ◼   ► within organizations over time.

01:14:20 ◼   ► Like there will be organizations,

01:14:22 ◼   ► I got a handful of emails from various people,

01:14:25 ◼   ► like, yeah, I'm sure you saw this,

01:14:28 ◼   ► we will not be turning this on in our organization, right?

01:14:31 ◼   ► 'Cause they don't want a co-pilot

01:14:33 ◼   ► to have access to their data or whatever.

01:14:35 ◼   ► So there's lots of complications here,

01:14:37 ◼   ► but it seems like a really big deal

01:14:40 ◼   ► that this is gonna be baked into office.

01:14:42 ◼   ► and it does kind of lead to the question

01:14:46 ◼   ► because Google Docs has the basic things as well.

01:14:49 ◼   ► Although if you've played with any of Google's

01:14:52 ◼   ► or like watched the video on BARD,

01:14:53 ◼   ► like clearly they're behind OpenAI and Microsoft,

01:14:56 ◼   ► but do we need this in numbers and pages of keynote too?

01:15:00 ◼   ► Is this something that makes Office more attractive to y'all

01:15:04 ◼   ► kind of want to get the temperature on it?

01:15:06 ◼   ► - I think the Apple discussion is actually

01:15:10 ◼   ► maybe a discussion we should have separately

01:15:12 ◼   ► at some point in the future, but like,

01:15:14 ◼   ► the answer is probably yes.

01:15:16 ◼   ► I know, the answer is yes, right?

01:15:17 ◼   ► Like, all of their competitors will be adding

01:15:20 ◼   ► these features, Apple have to find a way to do it

01:15:22 ◼   ► in a way that makes sense for them.

01:15:24 ◼   ► But like, this co-pilot thing in Office

01:15:27 ◼   ► is the first AI tool that I have been excited about,

01:15:32 ◼   ► interested in, and makes sense to me.

01:15:37 ◼   ► - Yep.

01:15:38 ◼   ► Because what I, you know,

01:15:41 ◼   ► Cortex systems have heard me talk about this before.

01:15:43 ◼   ► I've spoke about other shows too, right?

01:15:45 ◼   ► Like what I don't like about some of the stuff

01:15:46 ◼   ► that exists out there currently,

01:15:48 ◼   ► is it is just using a model,

01:15:53 ◼   ► which is generated from other people's work

01:15:55 ◼   ► to then like people just like,

01:15:56 ◼   ► oh, make me this thing.

01:15:57 ◼   ► And it's just like, makes a thing, right?

01:15:59 ◼   ► Like show me an image of Steve Jobs on InSpace.

01:16:02 ◼   ► It's like, somebody could draw that.

01:16:04 ◼   ► And like, instead you've just asked this thing

01:16:06 ◼   ► to just spit it out.

01:16:07 ◼   ► and it's just like creating this new work

01:16:10 ◼   ► based on other people's work,

01:16:12 ◼   ► where a lot of the features that we've seen in Copilot,

01:16:15 ◼   ► it's like using the system,

01:16:17 ◼   ► which yes has been pulled from text,

01:16:20 ◼   ► but I think text on the web is slightly different

01:16:22 ◼   ► when so much of it's about SEO anyway,

01:16:23 ◼   ► but it's a whole different conversation.

01:16:26 ◼   ► Like this kind of stuff is like taking my work

01:16:31 ◼   ► and using this tool to make it something else.

01:16:34 ◼   ► Like here's a presentation I have,

01:16:37 ◼   ► make a PowerPoint for me.

01:16:39 ◼   ► It's like, this is all, I'm in the loop here, 100%, right?

01:16:42 ◼   ► Or like, here's my spreadsheet.

01:16:45 ◼   ► Can you organize this into some charts and stuff?

01:16:49 ◼   ► It's like just taking out the work

01:16:51 ◼   ► where I was otherwise gonna need to be like,

01:16:53 ◼   ► Googling to get the formulas

01:16:55 ◼   ► where I don't understand how to use them.

01:16:57 ◼   ► Like this to me, makes a lot of sense

01:17:00 ◼   ► for the kinds of things that I want to be doing.

01:17:04 ◼   ► And it also has, I think, significantly to somewhat less

01:17:09 ◼   ► of the ethical concerns that I have

01:17:12 ◼   ► around where this information comes from

01:17:15 ◼   ► and what it's replacing.

01:17:17 ◼   ► - Yes, I feel the same way.

01:17:19 ◼   ► - Yeah, 'cause in a way it has a fence around it, right?

01:17:22 ◼   ► It's like, okay, I want you to look at these documents

01:17:25 ◼   ► and synthesize something new out of them.

01:17:28 ◼   ► You know, we've all passed examples around on Mastodon

01:17:31 ◼   ► and Discord and Slack of like,

01:17:32 ◼   ► Look at this wildly inaccurate thing that ChatGPT said,

01:17:36 ◼   ► or now Bard because Bard makes ChatGPT

01:17:40 ◼   ► look like a Rhodes scholar.

01:17:42 ◼   ► But I think you're right that this is like different

01:17:46 ◼   ► and I think it's exciting.

01:17:48 ◼   ► I do think that there's potential fallout

01:17:52 ◼   ► and I think there's potential concern

01:17:56 ◼   ► in a lot of organizations about what it will do

01:17:58 ◼   ► and are people gonna be placed by this robot or something.

01:18:00 ◼   ► I don't know any of the answers to that.

01:18:02 ◼   ► I'm not smart enough to know any of that,

01:18:04 ◼   ► but I do think this is like a fundamental shift where, okay,

01:18:07 ◼   ► basically the world runs on Office.

01:18:10 ◼   ► And once this is widely available in organizations,

01:18:14 ◼   ► it is a change.

01:18:17 ◼   ► And I think for me, up until this point,

01:18:22 ◼   ► it's been part of me,

01:18:24 ◼   ► part of my thinking on the AI tools that we have,

01:18:28 ◼   ► I kind of been like, well, this is like a fad.

01:18:30 ◼   ► Like this is like the new chat bot, right?

01:18:34 ◼   ► And, or the new whatever, you know,

01:18:37 ◼   ► we've been in this industry long enough,

01:18:38 ◼   ► we've seen fad technology come and go.

01:18:43 ◼   ► And it's like, okay, Microsoft entering the ring

01:18:45 ◼   ► is really interesting.

01:18:46 ◼   ► Making it a feature of Office 365,

01:18:49 ◼   ► that's a lot harder to unwind than,

01:18:52 ◼   ► oh, we made this like weird web tool

01:18:54 ◼   ► and then it just goes away one day

01:18:56 ◼   ► because it's not fashionable anymore.

01:18:58 ◼   ► Like this is a bigger commitment than anything we've seen

01:19:03 ◼   ► from any of these companies so far.

01:19:06 ◼   ► And that makes me kind of step back and think like,

01:19:09 ◼   ► okay, this is more important than maybe I felt like it was

01:19:14 ◼   ► up until now.

01:19:16 ◼   ► Does that make sense?

01:19:17 ◼   ► Is that track?

01:19:17 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:19:18 ◼   ► And I think it's especially if you're someone else,

01:19:22 ◼   ► if you're Apple,

01:19:24 ◼   ► and maybe we should save the discussion for another time,

01:19:26 ◼   ► but I think it's especially scary when you consider

01:19:28 ◼   ► how they're bringing this all together.

01:19:30 ◼   ► Like it's not just like individually

01:19:32 ◼   ► Word, PowerPoint, and Excel,

01:19:33 ◼   ► but it's like Outlook is gonna have all of this.

01:19:36 ◼   ► Outlook Mobile is gonna have all of this.

01:19:38 ◼   ► And they've sort of been on this mission

01:19:40 ◼   ► for the past two years or so

01:19:42 ◼   ► to reinvent like the very structure of the Office ecosystem

01:19:46 ◼   ► so that everything is gonna be based on components.

01:19:48 ◼   ► And all of these components are gonna come together

01:19:50 ◼   ► into the notion copycat immediately that they made loop,

01:19:55 ◼   ► which is in beta preview today.

01:19:57 ◼   ► But I think, like you look at it today and it looks like a Notion copy,

01:20:00 ◼   ► doesn't have an API, doesn't, not nearly as flexible as Notion,

01:20:05 ◼   ► but it's scary when you consider that loop is tying

01:20:09 ◼   ► together apps and services that hundreds of

01:20:14 ◼   ► millions, billions of users rely

01:20:19 ◼   ► on. So you can...

01:20:20 ◼   ► Anyone in professional work is using Office, at least some somehow, right?

01:20:25 ◼   ► Even people like me and Mike have Office installed because we get sent Word documents we have

01:20:29 ◼   ► to deal with, right?

01:20:30 ◼   ► And like...

01:20:31 ◼   ► We all do.

01:20:32 ◼   ► We all do.

01:20:33 ◼   ► And it's like, you know, you're saying about the API, Federico doesn't need an API because

01:20:36 ◼   ► it just pulls from Office.

01:20:37 ◼   ► Exactly.

01:20:38 ◼   ► Like, why does it need an API?

01:20:40 ◼   ► Like that's how then... that's what they're saying.

01:20:42 ◼   ► That's what they would say.

01:20:43 ◼   ► And I agree with them, like for their strategy of like, no, don't use a different whatever

01:20:48 ◼   ► app, just use our one.

01:20:50 ◼   ► And Adam from the Discord saying, "Open doc finally realized in many ways yes."

01:20:56 ◼   ► This is actually the vision of like, what if everything was based on components and

01:21:00 ◼   ► you can mix and match these components into this sort of amorphous type of document that

01:21:05 ◼   ► is not a document but also is a live document with multiple components from other places?

01:21:09 ◼   ► Yes, that's exactly the idea.

01:21:12 ◼   ► But when you, on top of this, when you consider how they're touching upon email with Outlook

01:21:18 ◼   ► personal to-do's with Microsoft to-do is going to be compatible with this.

01:21:23 ◼   ► I think they've actually built a pretty...

01:21:26 ◼   ► They are building a very compelling ecosystem for big companies, but also small to medium

01:21:34 ◼   ► businesses.

01:21:35 ◼   ► I think this is going to be very compelling as a strategy to be like, "Okay, I guess we

01:21:39 ◼   ► can have to-do's and we can have projects and we can have loop and office and email

01:21:42 ◼   ► going into Outlook and everything comes together and then we can chat in Teams."

01:21:48 ◼   ► there's AI to help make sense of all of these along the way.

01:21:51 ◼   ► - Yep. - Eh, you know.

01:21:53 ◼   ► - Co-pilot's there to just help you out all the time.

01:21:56 ◼   ► It's like, to touch on something you were saying

01:21:59 ◼   ► a moment ago, Steven, about like the fad nature of it,

01:22:02 ◼   ► like I understand that feeling, but at the same time,

01:22:06 ◼   ► I feel like right now we are,

01:22:09 ◼   ► and this is not an original thought at all,

01:22:11 ◼   ► but I'm just gonna say it anyway,

01:22:12 ◼   ► like we are living in a truly unprecedented time

01:22:14 ◼   ► in technology, like the speed at which these AI tools are

01:22:20 ◼   ► improving.

01:22:21 ◼   ► I can't think of any technology that was introduced

01:22:24 ◼   ► and then improved so dramatically

01:22:26 ◼   ► in such a short space of time.

01:22:27 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:22:28 ◼   ► It's obscene how big a leap that it has jumped in less than five--

01:22:33 ◼   ► less than six months.

01:22:35 ◼   ► It's like an unbelievable thing.

01:22:38 ◼   ► It's really wild.

01:22:39 ◼   ► And I also wanted to share with you both--

01:22:41 ◼   ► I had lunch with a friend yesterday.

01:22:42 ◼   ► we talk about this stuff like everyone is now, right?

01:22:44 ◼   ► You have any kind of, anybody in technology,

01:22:47 ◼   ► everyone's just talking about this stuff.

01:22:48 ◼   ► I had a realization that I think if you guys agree with me,

01:22:53 ◼   ► you will be clearly as uncomfortable with.

01:22:55 ◼   ► Because of these tools, right?

01:22:58 ◼   ► Like realistic text can be generated so easily.

01:23:03 ◼   ► I'm sure that you both like me get lots of,

01:23:08 ◼   ► not spam email, but like that middle ground email

01:23:13 ◼   ► where it's like, hey, here's a pitch.

01:23:15 ◼   ► Hey, here's a thing.

01:23:16 ◼   ► Hey, here's a thing.

01:23:17 ◼   ► I think within five years,

01:23:19 ◼   ► I will not be able to use email anymore

01:23:22 ◼   ► because when people hook these bots up to email.

01:23:25 ◼   ► - It's game over.

01:23:27 ◼   ► - It's impossible.

01:23:27 ◼   ► I won't be able to open my email inbox.

01:23:29 ◼   ► I will be getting hundreds of emails a day

01:23:31 ◼   ► that will look real.

01:23:32 ◼   ► - The worst ones that I get right now

01:23:35 ◼   ► is like it looks like it's a threaded reply.

01:23:39 ◼   ► And so SaneBox, which is a sponsor of some other stuff I do,

01:23:42 ◼   ► like SaneBox misses it because it's like,

01:23:46 ◼   ► read the phone call we had last week.

01:23:48 ◼   ► And like they do like fake threading in the email

01:23:50 ◼   ► and it's wild.

01:23:53 ◼   ► - I just got one, literally just got one.

01:23:55 ◼   ► Hey, Connected, my name's Dan.

01:23:57 ◼   ► I'm a tech founder in the podcasting space.

01:23:59 ◼   ► You are trying to make a real impact

01:24:02 ◼   ► in how podcasts could land.

01:24:03 ◼   ► higher quality brand deals.

01:24:05 ◼   ► Like I get this stuff constantly.

01:24:08 ◼   ► And at the point where these two things can happen of one,

01:24:12 ◼   ► you can have AI writing them.

01:24:13 ◼   ► And then two, AI learning the ways

01:24:16 ◼   ► to break through to my inbox.

01:24:18 ◼   ► - Our email interactions in the future

01:24:20 ◼   ► are gonna be like the Rorschach test

01:24:22 ◼   ► from the first scene in Blade Runner.

01:24:23 ◼   ► We're gonna need to evaluate whether the incoming messages

01:24:26 ◼   ► from an AI bot or from a real person.

01:24:29 ◼   ► - Yeah, genuinely, I just don't think

01:24:31 ◼   ► that I will be able to use email anymore.

01:24:34 ◼   ► I think I'll have to do something else.

01:24:37 ◼   ► - You know, there's gonna be services

01:24:38 ◼   ► that are gonna scan your inbox for messages

01:24:41 ◼   ► that were sent to you from other AIs.

01:24:43 ◼   ► - Yeah, but what I'm saying, I could see that,

01:24:45 ◼   ► but I also just don't think it's gonna work.

01:24:47 ◼   ► - Probably not.

01:24:48 ◼   ► - As Steven just said, we all use a tool, right,

01:24:53 ◼   ► which finds this stuff and gets rid of it,

01:24:55 ◼   ► but then people trick it until they,

01:24:57 ◼   ► like it's like a cat and mouse game, right?

01:24:59 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:25:00 ◼   ► Eventually these tools learn to realize these things,

01:25:03 ◼   ► but then you just do something else.

01:25:04 ◼   ► So like, I just don't think that it's gonna be,

01:25:07 ◼   ► I think the open nature of email

01:25:10 ◼   ► will crumble to this kind of technology.

01:25:12 ◼   ► - We'll see.

01:25:13 ◼   ► I mean, there's so many knock-on effects from--

01:25:17 ◼   ► - It's touching everything.

01:25:18 ◼   ► - Yeah, and like, I don't think anyone,

01:25:20 ◼   ► I mean, I think, I can speak for all three of us,

01:25:23 ◼   ► none of us are experts in this field,

01:25:25 ◼   ► but I think even if you are an expert in this field,

01:25:27 ◼   ► this is new territory.

01:25:28 ◼   ► And it's just, uh, accelerating, like you said, Mike, really, really pretty quickly.

01:25:34 ◼   ► So I've decided also that I'm like, I'm giving into it now.

01:25:38 ◼   ► Like I'm now trying to find the things that I find interesting.

01:25:40 ◼   ► Cause like, I can't just keep resisting this forever because this is technology now.

01:25:45 ◼   ► So like, I'm trying to open myself up to this and like, I'm now like, all right,

01:25:49 ◼   ► so this, I found one thing that I find interesting, which is copilot.

01:25:53 ◼   ► So there can be interesting things to me here.

01:25:56 ◼   ► Now I've just got to find more of them.

01:25:57 ◼   ► I started paying for a chat GPT plus.

01:26:01 ◼   ► - What do you use it for?

01:26:02 ◼   ► - It's excellent for editing or like grammar checking,

01:26:07 ◼   ► for example.

01:26:07 ◼   ► - Okay.

01:26:09 ◼   ► - You see, it's what you were saying about like,

01:26:12 ◼   ► this is my content and I'm using AI to do something helpful

01:26:16 ◼   ► that my human brain cannot do.

01:26:18 ◼   ► But I don't feel sort of, well, it's always been--

01:26:21 ◼   ► - You're not saying, hey GPT four, write me an article

01:26:25 ◼   ► to introduce automation.

01:26:26 ◼   ► - The creation aspects that I'm uncomfortable with.

01:26:28 ◼   ► Now, technically speaking, the editing aspect

01:26:32 ◼   ► is also powered by text that was lifted

01:26:35 ◼   ► by other people's texts, but it's the illusion

01:26:39 ◼   ► that you're not breaking with your own content, I think.

01:26:42 ◼   ► So yeah, I'm giving into it now because there's like,

01:26:46 ◼   ► what you just said, like, what's the point?

01:26:48 ◼   ► This is our life now.

01:26:49 ◼   ► So you either get on with the times or you can,

01:26:54 ◼   ► or not, but you're gonna...

01:26:56 ◼   ► - I mean, I could choose to be grumpy about this forever

01:26:59 ◼   ► if I want to, but I just don't, you know me,

01:27:01 ◼   ► I just don't like to be that way.

01:27:03 ◼   ► - Plenty of blogs and podcasts by grumpy people.

01:27:06 ◼   ► - And so I'm just like, I'm trying to find the things

01:27:10 ◼   ► that are interesting to me that I feel are less

01:27:12 ◼   ► ethically gray, you know?

01:27:16 ◼   ► And this is one of them.

01:27:18 ◼   ► Like, you know, I was thinking the other day, right,

01:27:20 ◼   ► you know that whisper model?

01:27:21 ◼   ► We're definitely all in there, like 100%.

01:27:23 ◼   ► Like they trained that on podcasts. Like that's where they got that.

01:27:26 ◼   ► I mean, I can tell you that I gave it the whole catalog of app stories personally.

01:27:30 ◼   ► So.

01:27:31 ◼   ► No, but like the model before you even try to like,

01:27:33 ◼   ► that's I don't know if the information you give to it trains the model further.

01:27:36 ◼   ► Like I don't know the answer to that, but like the model that they made,

01:27:40 ◼   ► the OpenAI made 100% they used.

01:27:44 ◼   ► Like every single podcast that could get their hands on. Cause why not?

01:27:47 ◼   ► It's like free and available contents. Like easy.

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01:30:30 ◼   ► It is time, my friends, for something I'm calling

01:30:35 ◼   ► Picking an Heir to the Throne.

01:30:38 ◼   ► Okay.

01:30:39 ◼   ► I don't think I'm going anywhere, but you never know.

01:30:44 ◼   ► What is happening?

01:30:45 ◼   ► What are we talking about?

01:30:46 ◼   ► - Are you dying?

01:30:46 ◼   ► - I don't think so.

01:30:47 ◼   ► But you know, I feel like I've taken on the mantle

01:30:50 ◼   ► of Apple historian.

01:30:51 ◼   ► - Oh.

01:30:52 ◼   ► - And I wanna know which of the two of you

01:30:55 ◼   ► would be an heir once I retire

01:30:59 ◼   ► or chat GPT comes for me or whatever.

01:31:02 ◼   ► - Are you trying to do a quiz but not call it a quiz?

01:31:05 ◼   ► - Yes.

01:31:05 ◼   ► Turns out quiz was trademarked.

01:31:08 ◼   ► - Oh my God.

01:31:08 ◼   ► - And so I couldn't do it.

01:31:10 ◼   ► So I have 10 questions.

01:31:11 ◼   ► - This is intellectual property theft.

01:31:13 ◼   ► - I have 10 questions.

01:31:14 ◼   ► Not again, not from you!

01:31:16 ◼   ► This is IP theft.

01:31:18 ◼   ► 10 questions.

01:31:20 ◼   ► Hang on a second, hang on a second.

01:31:22 ◼   ► Now...

01:31:23 ◼   ► I kinda need more wine.

01:31:24 ◼   ► No, no, I wanna test...

01:31:25 ◼   ► Wait, have you been drinking?

01:31:26 ◼   ► Yeah, he started drinking wine, it's like a whole thing.

01:31:29 ◼   ► I wanna potentially put something interesting into this.

01:31:34 ◼   ► This is about trust.

01:31:36 ◼   ► Oh god, you're gonna put points into this.

01:31:39 ◼   ► I wanna see if Steven has trust in me.

01:31:42 ◼   ► We can put this into the quizzes.

01:31:44 ◼   ► and I play for you. Oh. But you gotta trust me. I did not deserve a quiz today.

01:31:53 ◼   ► Nobody does. I think we keep it separate, but that is very interesting.

01:31:58 ◼   ► Oh, see? He doesn't trust me. I wanted to see if he trusts me. Let's see if he learns

01:32:01 ◼   ► to regret this. Well, I feel like that could be construed as like me

01:32:06 ◼   ► and you ganging up on Federico, which this is not. But I had no idea. I think we all

01:32:10 ◼   ► collusion. The ganging up could go in the other way though because I could also do really bad to

01:32:16 ◼   ► tank your score. That's true. But never mind. Okay, so put it out there. How this works. There's

01:32:22 ◼   ► 10 questions. I'm going to award a point for whoever is closest, okay? Because some of these

01:32:29 ◼   ► are extremely specific. And then there is a bonus round. There's enough points available in the

01:32:34 ◼   ► bonus round that it's all up for grabs.

01:32:38 ◼   ► I hate games like that.

01:32:40 ◼   ► No, don't do that.

01:32:41 ◼   ► Question?

01:32:42 ◼   ► I hate games like that.

01:32:43 ◼   ► When it's like the whole point of doing the quiz doesn't make any point because you just

01:32:47 ◼   ► get the last question.

01:32:49 ◼   ► This is how you beat me in the last founders quiz and I continue to find it as a disrespect

01:32:53 ◼   ► from Kathy to me.

01:32:54 ◼   ► Wow.

01:32:55 ◼   ► Well, I mean, we all know what part of the organization Kathy's in.

01:32:57 ◼   ► Exactly.

01:32:58 ◼   ► So collusion.

01:32:59 ◼   ► Collusion.

01:33:00 ◼   ► So you will get a point that forever is closest no half points or anything

01:33:05 ◼   ► And then the bonus round which we'll get to

01:33:08 ◼   ► You could you could you could do pretty poorly in the main quiz and walk away with it

01:33:12 ◼   ► If you do well in the bonus round, so ten questions, okay

01:33:16 ◼   ► They are this time all hardware related and how how are we doing this?

01:33:22 ◼   ► Because you asked us to have a pen and paper. So like that's for the bonus round. Oh

01:33:26 ◼   ► So there is an inherent

01:33:30 ◼   ► Trustworthiness in these quizzes that say that I asked a question and Federico answers it first

01:33:35 ◼   ► Mike you could change your answer based on what Federico said now