00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:08   From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 455. Today's show is brought to you by Electric,

00:00:15   Text Expander and Sofa. My name is Mike Hurley, I'm joined by Jason Snow. Hi Jason.

00:00:20   Hi Mike. I'm going to give you a bit of like Mike small talk today. So, as we're recording in April,

00:00:27   it's five o'clock in the evening for me is when we start recording. Automation April,

00:00:31   yep, as we all know. Indeed, automation April. And it's, what I like about this time of year

00:00:38   is it's still light out when we start recording. And I like that, right? I don't like the clocks

00:00:45   changing personally, but I enjoy that Daylight Saving Time provides me with this extra bit of

00:00:51   light when I'm starting recording with you. Yeah, spent inside recording a podcast. I have

00:00:56   a window so I can feel that the room has more light in it, which is nice. That's good, that's

00:01:03   good. I feel that way when I'm recording my evening podcast too. It's nice. Other than when the sun is

00:01:08   blasting into my eyes and I have to lower the shades, but other than that. So like originally

00:01:12   they said that Daylight Savings Time was for farmers and they said it was for Halloween,

00:01:17   but now it's for podcasters. That's who it's for. It's for podcasters. That's right.

00:01:24   I have a Snell Talk question for you. It comes from Mark who wants to know,

00:01:27   "Jason, when you go to a baseball game, do you keep score?"

00:01:30   Now, Mike, before I answer this, I have to ask, do you know what this means?

00:01:35   Well, I mean, the funny answer is you like just every time you go to one,

00:01:40   you just make a mark on the wall. Yep, that's another baseball game. I went to that one.

00:01:46   Now I'm aware of that, that like, you can, there are like a lot of notebooks I've seen in the past

00:01:52   for this where you can like keep score, but there is a very specific way of counting the in, ins,

00:01:59   and the outs or something. The in, ins, and the outs is in baseball. Do you count everyone's

00:02:04   belly buttons? Is that how that happens? Is that what that is? Only on opening day.

00:02:08   Balls are rolled out. Everybody lines up on the baselines and they count the belly buttons.

00:02:14   Nobody wears jerseys on opening day. That's right. They say, "We need a pitcher,

00:02:18   not a belly itcher." That's what they say. Well, yeah, you actually record every

00:02:24   outcome of every at bat. So it's like single, double, out, you know, ground out, fly out,

00:02:31   whatever it is, those details, total them up. Can you record where the balls like go,

00:02:37   like from each hit? I think I've seen that before. Everybody has their own,

00:02:41   who keeps score, has their own scorekeeping style. So some people will like make a little X

00:02:46   or make a little mark about like, was this to the outfield? Was it to left field? Whatever.

00:02:50   Obviously the announcers do that because then they can say, "Oh, when was the last time out

00:02:54   that you flew out to left field?" He can say that because he's looking at his little score book and

00:02:59   he's got like, "Oh, I can see backward in time." There's an official scorer who,

00:03:05   you know, and the statistics are kept and all of these things happen. But Mark's question is,

00:03:10   do I do it? Do I, an adult human being, bring a ringed binder sort of collection of pieces of

00:03:21   paper and a pen to a baseball game so that I can sit while on a beautiful day while a baseball game

00:03:27   is going on in front of me and mark little things down on pen in a game that is being televised and

00:03:33   put into computers and does not actually need any record keeping of any kind? Yes, absolutely I do.

00:03:40   What I like about that is you said an adult human being as if a child would ever fathom to want to

00:03:46   do this. Oh well that's, I think that's not true but like I was just sort of implying that like

00:03:52   with somebody who has other things going on. The answer is yeah absolutely I do. I really enjoy it.

00:03:57   It creates a, what do I tell people? Keeps me focused a little bit, right? Like keeps me focused

00:04:03   on the game. Baseball, you know, you can get distracted. The pace is slow. Even now the pace

00:04:07   is faster it's still slow. I learned to do it. Boy we're gonna get into some things here. I didn't

00:04:15   play Dungeons and Dragons when I was in high school. I played dice baseball. We had a league.

00:04:20   We had little teams where it was like players were on cards and you'd roll dice to see if they

00:04:24   got hits and you had to keep score. Is this also known as dice ball? It is not. There's probably

00:04:30   other dice ball games. That's a board game. Okay. I played a very particular kind of dice baseball.

00:04:38   There are lots of different kinds. So anyway that was my high school. No I didn't have any dates.

00:04:43   But I did learn to do that and I just kind of find it pleasant. I find it pleasant to do it and it

00:04:50   becomes a souvenir. So I've got a book that's got like all the baseball games that I've been to.

00:04:55   Oh that's nice. I'm on my like third book now but yeah so it's like this is the world series and

00:04:59   this was that I've got like a spring training game from 2010 where it's the first time I saw

00:05:03   Buster Posey play and he would then come up to the big league team later that year and they'd

00:05:07   win the world series. I've got like memories in there of like did this with this friend and we

00:05:11   took Jamie. I took Jamie to a spring training game one time. It was just her and me and I've got that

00:05:16   one in there and I you know this weekend we went or last weekend we went to a game and I was able

00:05:21   to look back and say what was the last game we saw here? I was like oh yeah it was it was actually

00:05:26   the game where we were playing the Arizona Diamondbacks the team that my mom follows

00:05:31   because she lives in Phoenix and we were sitting right behind the Diamondbacks dugout and I texted

00:05:36   her and I said watch the game you will see us and she's like oh I see you and that was the last game

00:05:42   we had been to. So yeah anyway I do I do I don't like we went to Minnesota last summer to visit

00:05:50   friends and I did not bring the score book there. I did end up for that one keeping score on a little

00:05:55   Minnesota Twins you know scorecard thing that you could get and that was fine but it doesn't go in

00:06:00   the book now which is too bad and so sometimes it's not like an inviolate like 100% of the time

00:06:06   I do it but if I can make the effort to do it I absolutely do. I understand it like I've been to

00:06:13   a Major League Baseball game it's a slow day right like it's faster now. They've cut half an hour out

00:06:19   of it but yeah. But there's a lot of like slow so like having something that keeps you extra engaged

00:06:28   like yeah what what happened to that guy right and there's the legendary story about a announcer I

00:06:33   believe it's Phil Rizzuto the announcer for the Yankees who yeah everybody's got their little

00:06:38   quirks he somebody was looking at his scorecard one day and they're like Phil what is what does

00:06:42   WW mean and he says oh wasn't watching. He got out somehow now if I'm missing out I can go on the MLB

00:06:53   app and like find out what happened or actually now they put it on the scoreboard they literally

00:06:57   put up there this guy struck out you just missed it because you were talking to somebody or whatever

00:07:01   wonderful so yeah it's true it's true. If you would like to send in a question to help us open

00:07:07   an episode of Upgrade just go to upgradefeedback.com and submit a Snell Talk question for us thank you

00:07:12   to Mark who did that. We have some follow-up so we were talking about the sometimes poorly

00:07:19   functioning HomeKit integration in Control Center when we were talking last time about what we'd

00:07:23   like to see change in Control Center. Ben wrote in to suggest that the home button so there's like

00:07:29   not only is there HomeKit controls in Control Center there is also a button that you can press

00:07:37   yeah that basically replicates the home app in Control Center and it gives you a view of

00:07:43   everything that would be otherwise be in the home app just right there in Control Center. I always

00:07:49   forget about this and I just find it incredibly weird that it exists in the first place to be

00:07:55   honest strange. Yeah I don't like it because I mean yes you can get to it but the point of the top

00:08:02   level is that I can have the things that matter to me and just swipe down and go boop and control

00:08:07   them with a home at the home rectangle inside Control Center you tap on it and it brings up

00:08:14   the whole home app basically you know scrolling list and then you're like scrolling up and down

00:08:18   so I've already tapped now I'm just going to scrolling for the thing and then I tap on that

00:08:22   and then I have to go back in order to get out and like it's just that's what I don't like about it is

00:08:28   it's not I appreciate I guess that they went to the trouble of it being there but what I really

00:08:33   want is to select some items in my home and say put this in Control Center which it doesn't let

00:08:38   you do. Yeah and it still doesn't solve my biggest issue where it still doesn't know where I am half

00:08:45   the time like you know just get all of the boxes for the studio when I'm at home rather than just

00:08:49   some of them. So you can turn lights on and off at your studio while you're not there that's great I

00:08:55   mean some some people do want that some people do want to control things remotely but yeah you

00:08:59   should also having the ability to have it be like location based and yes a lot of work to be done

00:09:04   here but it is true if you if you want you can just tap on that home rectangle and it will bring

00:09:10   up essentially your home app inside Control Center. I'm gonna consider this as follow-up because we've

00:09:16   mentioned the company's name in the past. Apple has partnered with French TV provider Canal Plus

00:09:22   to offer Apple TV Plus to its subscribers for no additional fee so if you're a Canal Plus subscriber

00:09:28   you will just get Apple TV Plus. Yes. Is it the beginning of bundling? I don't know it will they

00:09:36   call it Apple TV Plus? Maybe they do I don't know wait what is French is it like pomme television plus?

00:09:45   Maybe it could be so it's an interesting idea it's unclear whether this is I mean they use

00:09:53   Canal Plus for their cable company like they use Apple TV as their box right like that's a really

00:10:01   tight it's a really tight relationship there. They're very embedded. Yeah that's a really tight relationship and

00:10:07   then apparently there's a cross-licensing deal for some content too where there's going to be

00:10:10   Apple TV content that Canal Plus is going to actually be able to put on their

00:10:15   stations too I read somewhere so there's there's a bunch going on there. I don't know if this is just

00:10:20   this feels like it might just be a one-off because this happens to be a region where they've got a

00:10:24   particularly tight relationship. Yeah but it's it's it's worth watching because right that's another

00:10:30   way for Apple TV Plus to get out there. I mean Apple TV Plus already does that with what is it

00:10:33   T-Mobile has a deal where you get free Apple TV Plus with your subscription and like there are some

00:10:39   things like that that are out there already so I think you know Apple will do what it needs to do

00:10:44   to market their service but this is a case this may be the strongest case because they have such

00:10:50   a tight relationship with Canal Plus. Because you know there are things where I think the I believe

00:10:55   I'm just speaking of something I believe I'm not 100% sure about this that the French government

00:11:01   requires an amount of programming to be in French and to be produced in France like that it's a part

00:11:08   of the perpetration and continuation of the language and so like I know that Apple I believe

00:11:14   had to work to create French language content if they wanted to be in the region maybe Canal Plus

00:11:21   helped with that you know or Canal helped with that because there's also they're also a television

00:11:25   production company right right Studio Canal I think Studio Canal and so you know maybe this is

00:11:31   all part of just like a very good relationship they have with that company but I do you know I

00:11:37   know you can get it like we have EE here which is a cell provider and they believe offer they

00:11:44   that you can get Apple One with them as part of your bundle but I the thing that I'm interested

00:11:51   in specifically is could we see other streaming services other cable companies that kind of thing

00:12:01   just offer TV plus like any other channel might be in a bundle and I just find that as an interesting

00:12:07   proposition it could be good for Apple I think to just be able to give this content to more people

00:12:13   yep yep could be no poi indeed a slightly different note now we have a little more

00:12:23   follow-up to get to but I want to take a moment to recognize Katie Cotton Katie was Apple's head

00:12:30   of PR during the jobs era she had a 20-year stint with Apple she very recently unfortunately passed

00:12:37   away it's terribly sad I want to read very quickly a statement that Apple gave to Bloomberg to say

00:12:45   we're deeply saddened by Katie's passing she was an extraordinary person and she made countless

00:12:49   contributions over the course of her two-decade career at Apple our thoughts are with her loved

00:12:53   ones and everyone who had the opportunity to work with her and I'm assuming that you knew Katie so I

00:12:59   thought you might say a few things honestly most of the I feel like my when I was not the editor-in-chief

00:13:09   I think my boss Rick LePage worked with her quite a bit and and just to give you an idea of what

00:13:14   level Katie was on our CEO Colin Crawford talked to her a lot yeah like I always got the you know

00:13:22   we would always hear Colin being like oh Katie Katie said this and Katie said that and Katie's

00:13:26   complaining about you essentially the sorts of things we would get from Colin so she was at a

00:13:32   high level I dealt mostly with the head of product PR who was Natalie Lingo so but I did I talked to

00:13:41   Katie a bunch of times saw her she I was always always super intimidated by her she was partially

00:13:49   because Colin would be like Katie Katie complained about a thing you did I'm like oh boy but

00:13:56   she the one thing I always wondered about is whether she was the perfect fit for Steve Jobs

00:14:01   or whether she read what Steve Jobs wanted and knew how to knew how to provide it for him but

00:14:06   either way they were I would say almost like inseparable in terms of how marketing and public

00:14:12   relations was handled and how and how Steve wanted it to be handled like that that seemed they were

00:14:19   just in perfect alignment and the things people complained about in that era about Apple PR

00:14:24   and the things that people maybe appreciated about them I will say having dealt with Apple PR before

00:14:28   Katie was put in charge and before Steve came back they were so erratic and confusing and and she got

00:14:36   them I mean like they they got it together a lot more after she came and brought in you know you

00:14:45   know brought in presumably people that she liked and trusted and built a team there but yeah she

00:14:51   was I always was intimidated by her but she executed perfectly and worked perfectly with Steve

00:14:58   and the when she left and I know we've talked about that way back in early episodes of Upgrade when

00:15:04   she left I think it was a great example of how different times call for different strategies that

00:15:12   I think Katie was going to play it the way Katie played it and then when she left Apple

00:15:18   the new regime and she left sort of after Tim Cook you know came on board but as CEO but not a lot

00:15:26   longer than that the the PR changed right their strategy changed they they started doing some new

00:15:31   and innovative things and and had different approaches to access and different approaches

00:15:36   to events and different approach approaches to how press got briefed and like all sorts of stuff like

00:15:41   that and I thought what I took away from that was that's naturally what happens when you've got

00:15:47   somebody in charge for 20 years right is that they they set up a machine and then it really does take

00:15:53   somebody else to to take it in a different direction but yeah she was super powerful

00:15:57   everybody knew who she was she was great at her job and she was like like I said before

00:16:03   I don't know the details of it but in the end the perfect fit for how Steve Jobs wanted to approach

00:16:09   dealing with the press perfect fit they were they were perfect partners yeah like I kind of think

00:16:15   of the like a legacy that she has left like it's not just Apple but so many companies especially

00:16:20   in tech like the way that they deal with secrecy and the way that they would a lot of companies

00:16:26   would like to have an approach with how they deal with media and press in general comes from what

00:16:31   she would have established at that time right if you write the story of the tech industry in terms

00:16:35   of PR and marketing in the in in the media not like necessarily market product marketing like

00:16:42   in the sense of maybe pricing and stuff like that that like how how how products get rolled out and

00:16:47   marketed and all that I think you could point at Steve Jobs for sure but also Katie Cotton and Phil

00:16:54   Schiller and say that that trio was super influential because they were the ones behind

00:17:01   how Apple chose to roll out products and from all aspects and honestly everybody in the tech

00:17:12   industry took notes and and tried to do what they do like there's just no doubt about it that the

00:17:18   if you don't know what tech industry was like before Apple style PR and marketing if I took

00:17:25   you in a time machine back to like 1995 and showed you what the tech industry did for marketing you

00:17:30   would be or even 2000 honestly you would be aghast you'd be like what uh because now Samsung does

00:17:39   events and Microsoft does events and like the way all of their approach to this stuff is is very

00:17:44   Apple-like in a way that it wasn't before and that that goes to like I said Steve for sure but also

00:17:50   Phil and Katie. Rest in peace Katie Cotton. So Apple announced something today Apple cash

00:17:58   becoming Apple savings this is something that you mentioned before we started recording that I hadn't

00:18:03   seen so I would like you to explain this to me. Yeah it's it's for people who've got the Apple

00:18:08   card okay you you get Apple cash back because you can send Apple cash anyway but if you get the

00:18:14   Apple card you get Apple cash back and and so you probably have a lot of Apple cash and generally

00:18:22   what you do is you either use it to buy something like I bought burritos with my Apple cash

00:18:26   the other day great because it was like oh you need to buy burritos I have Apple cash I'm like

00:18:32   great do it let's just make that happen but you can also transfer back to your bank right so what

00:18:39   this does is it creates essentially a bank account at Goldman Sachs that you can put your Apple cash

00:18:45   in and it earns 4.15 percent interest which is actually a very good interest rate right now

00:18:52   and no fees no minimum deposits no minimum balance requirements right it's like just kind of a magic

00:19:01   bank account that is essentially if you're an Apple card subscriber member whatever you you now

00:19:09   have access to this thing for your for your Apple cash and once you set it up all future daily cash

00:19:17   from the card is automatically deposited into the account so the idea there and you can deposit

00:19:26   things from your you can transfer things in from your bank account or right or transfer things in

00:19:30   from Apple cash that you got from some other from somebody paying you you can transfer all that in

00:19:34   there so what I find interesting is that it's like dipping a toe in the water a little bit

00:19:38   I don't know what the end game is here but I think it's interesting in that they're touting this very

00:19:43   high interest rate and that feels to me like they're really they really want you to leave

00:19:47   your money in their hands right not transfer it to another bank and so they're at least starting with

00:19:54   the daily cash from Apple card users you sign up for this and it's it's not bad right like why

00:20:00   why let your 140 dollars or whatever that's sitting in your Apple cash account why let it sit

00:20:08   there when you could put it in this thing that is I think functionally equivalent in terms of the

00:20:13   interface and everything and it gets interest I don't even really understand how this is different

00:20:19   to the user realistically than what it was doing before I think that's the plan I think the plan is

00:20:25   this should feel like because because what was Apple cash Apple cash is like a PayPal balance

00:20:32   yeah right where it's just kind of in a limbo state where they've got your money they've got

00:20:38   your money in the bank somewhere earning money for them and this is Apple sort of like trying to

00:20:43   build a new interface where it still looks like a little box that is your cash but what it really is

00:20:52   is a bank account that you access just like you would access Apple pay or cash and it just sits

00:20:57   there earning interest and and you know I think that there's a long game here and they want to get

00:21:03   people used to this idea of keeping a big balance in their Apple account and using it to pay for

00:21:09   things but yeah you could also theoretically transfer a lot of money in here and say Apple

00:21:13   is my bank account if you wanted to it you could do that I don't think I would suggest that but

00:21:19   it's an interesting idea it's wild to me too for a 4.15 percent interest rate with no minimum

00:21:30   interesting yeah I mean yeah why wouldn't you it's kind of to me feels like this is maybe the way

00:21:38   they wanted it to be initially but it was couldn't get it set up that way or something right because

00:21:42   it's just like it is functionally the same right yeah it sounds like it at least for I think you

00:21:49   have like I said I think it's a separate account from your general cash wallet thing but then

00:21:57   they're going to plow the cash back from and maybe there's a benefit to them and golden sacks there

00:22:03   too that rather than that cash back moving into the the limbo zone it's going to stay essentially

00:22:10   at Goldman Sachs and just be part of this other account you have access to yeah I also we a lot of

00:22:17   talk Mark Erman's reported about it a lot about Apple wanting to build its own financial services

00:22:23   like the the Apple pay later this is not that right this is Goldman Sachs this is this is

00:22:29   essentially an extension of the Apple card for now yeah for now still want to see it come well

00:22:37   you know let's break outside of America Apple you have the ability to do it I believe in you

00:22:41   you know it's only been 75 years at this point like whenever you're ready and Quad Box Quad Box

00:22:49   Quad Box Quad Box what is the Quad Box Multi View Sports Features are coming to Apple TV Plus

00:22:57   Multi View it's the Quad Box Quad Box aka Multi View basically in Ben Mayo reported this in 95

00:23:06   Mac basically in the tv os 16.5 beta Apple has added Multi View which is a way it's in the tv app

00:23:14   and it's basically you know picture in picture it's sort of like you get the one picture and

00:23:19   then you've got the little tiny postage stamp version that's in the corner and you can move

00:23:22   it around this is not that this is like a level up from that and it allows you to put up to four items

00:23:28   four videos live on your screen at once so yeah and you're thinking to yourself why would you want

00:23:35   to do that the answer is simple multitasking four classic movies all up together you watch them all

00:23:40   at the same time you're more cultured four times as cultured no it's for sports that's the number

00:23:45   one thing it's and so that the Apple built it in and it's really been Mayo tried it out this way

00:23:49   it's for MLS at this point Apple wants to do more sports stuff but it's for MLS especially so you

00:23:55   can put four MLS matches that are running live and you put them in four boxes in the corner of your

00:24:00   screen I'll also mention that if you've got a 4k tv each one of those boxes is basically a 1080p

00:24:04   tv just small it's pretty cool so I use this all the time on Fubo which is my tv provider

00:24:14   for sporting events so I can if there are different games on different channels like

00:24:18   college football is a great example of this I can put four college football games up or yesterday

00:24:22   I had a couple baseball games up and it's great youtube tv is working on this because they're

00:24:30   going to have NFL Sunday ticket and and one of the things you're going to want to do with Sunday

00:24:34   ticket is put four football games up at once the problem with all of this is that this is a tv app

00:24:42   feature and it needs to be a core feature of tv os because what you can't do is put up videos in

00:24:50   those boxes from different apps just in the one app and what they and what they really need because

00:24:58   sports rights are so fractured what they really need to do I should be able to put a Friday night

00:25:05   baseball game up from from the tv app a different baseball game up from the MLB app a basketball

00:25:15   game up from ESPN plus and a different basketball game up from Fubo I should be able to have four

00:25:24   apps streaming video into a quad box on my tv on my apple tv that is not yet possible with the

00:25:31   operating system but I feel like they have to go there because quad box is great for sports but

00:25:36   if if every quad box is its own silo you'll never get to four items or rarely get to four items

00:25:44   because you are stuck with this these silos everybody you know there's this board is over

00:25:53   there and this board is over there and this the game is over there and this other game is over

00:25:56   here so I feel like that's that's on my wish list now for the next version of tv os is multi-view

00:26:03   quad box for all and there need to be an API for it and all that but like every time I use their

00:26:09   picture-in-picture thing I hate it it's terrible it's even bad like I use it in the MLB app

00:26:13   MLB app on the web you can see four games at once in the MLB app on apple tv they just use

00:26:20   apple's picture-in-picture API and it's awful because it covers part of the screen and you

00:26:25   have one big one on one small one and then you're doing all these kind of fiddly gestures in order

00:26:29   to move between them it's it's terrible so realistically two APIs should be made available

00:26:35   here one being let your content be watched outside but let's be realistic right about what some

00:26:42   providers will allow the second is we're going to give you an easy way to show four streams at once

00:26:47   inside of your own app both would be true right they yes like this is this looks very suspiciously

00:26:52   actually in the app in the tv app it it's added into the player interface it looks very suspiciously

00:26:57   like this may be available as an API for other apps I don't know that for sure but I wouldn't

00:27:03   put it past so like and that would be great for major league baseball where I often do have two

00:27:07   three four games going at once in the MLB tv app that would be great but so that's that's like

00:27:14   request number one is make this an API so other so that there's a standard way to do quad box

00:27:20   on all tv apps that would be step one step two is make it so that you can offer your video to be in

00:27:26   a quad box in any app and mix and match what the apps are doing so that you can have three different

00:27:33   apps supplying video to a quad box four different apps that would be perfect but we're not there yet

00:27:40   so anyway it's a it's step one but of course I want more so thank you apple for putting this

00:27:45   new feature in the first beta and all it does is make me say great next but it's a good thing to

00:27:53   see and if you've never tried it or if you're not a sports fan trust me it's great I mean some I

00:27:58   don't use the quad box as much as I use a side by side two but it's nice to have side by side two or

00:28:04   three I had that at one point where I had a basketball game and two baseball games going

00:28:07   last night and the quad box when you're interested in four different things and kind of flipping

00:28:14   around between them it's really nice to just because I should say the way this works is it

00:28:18   doesn't just stay at four you can click with the with the remote and zoom into any game so you can

00:28:24   swipe around and get the audio from any of the four boxes and then if you click it zooms into

00:28:30   that game and then you hit the back button and it zooms back out into the quad box it's really nice

00:28:35   this episode is brought to you by sofa when you hear about a great new tv show or a book

00:28:44   or a podcast or an album or whatever what do you do do you scribble it down on your notebook maybe

00:28:50   you put in your to-do app maybe put it in reminders in any case you're likely going to forget about it

00:28:56   and instead feel stuck not knowing what to watch listen or play next when that time comes next time

00:29:02   you hear a great recommendation for something throw it in sofa with the sofa app you can create

00:29:07   lists of almost anything podcasts apps books board games movies tv shows albums video games

00:29:14   all this stuff because it also has it's not you're not just writing it in there no just like oh play

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00:29:27   lists and all of the information the metadata is all in there then you can use these lists to

00:29:32   decide your next piece of content to read watch or play sofa's design is inspired by some of the best

00:29:39   productivity apps but focused on helping you to be more intentional with your downtime you really

00:29:44   don't want to keep track of this stuff in your regular to-do manager because this is your downtime

00:29:48   you're gonna get everything mixed together who wants reminders of their work tasks when they're

00:29:52   trying to unwind on the weekend use sofa and you'll get a dedicated place for organizing your

00:29:58   downtime with sofa you can create unlimited lists sync your data with iCloud track your activity

00:30:03   and more completely free but if you're looking for more power you can upgrade to super sofa to

00:30:10   customize lists with cover images and descriptions add sticky notes to items so it's like give you a

00:30:15   little reminder of something personalize the look and feel of over 100 different themes and a whole

00:30:21   lot more i love how many things there are in this application i was checking it out they gave us a

00:30:27   code to try out the app me and jason there are so many themes the design just the basic design

00:30:32   simple and clean you know the fact that they want you know sofa say that they're inspired by

00:30:37   productivity apps i can see that and i think that's fantastic has tons of great little touches

00:30:42   but the amount of incredible themes there are i've never seen so many themes in an app it's amazing

00:30:47   it's also super easy to build lists really simple to search and get basic information about all of

00:30:52   the things that you're looking to i'm using it for video games mostly because that's my biggest thing

00:30:57   where someone tells me a game to play or hear a game play but i'm already playing something

00:31:02   right now and it might be days or weeks before i'm ready to start a new video game and then when

00:31:07   i'm done i'm always kind of lost and i don't know what to play and that game that i heard about on

00:31:11   a podcast three months ago has left my brain forever so i don't anymore now i put it in sofa

00:31:17   sofa is available for iphone ipad and apple silicon max upgrade listeners can get a special

00:31:23   one week free trial by heading over to sofa hq.com upgrade that is sofa hq.com upgrade and you'll get

00:31:33   a one week free trial of super sofa thank you and more one week laser that was very good super sofa

00:31:40   i like saying i like that too they didn't ask me to do that i just thought that that would be

00:31:44   good to collect super so far it sounds i like it and you get more out of your downtime there's also

00:31:48   a link in the show notes our thanks to sofa for their support of this show and relay fm

00:31:52   rumor roundup time yeehaw so after all of the conversation we've been having

00:32:00   minchi quo is now reporting that the plan for solid state capacitive buttons on the iphone 15

00:32:06   pro has been scrapped at the final hurdle available this is for quote unresolved technical

00:32:14   issues before mass production and this is a quote from mac rumors quo said there is still time for

00:32:20   apple to modify the iphone 15 pros design given that the device remains in the evt development

00:32:25   stage he believes quo believes that the change will have a limited impact on the mass production

00:32:30   schedule and shipments for the pro models i got some theories i would love to hear him i was

00:32:35   listening to you guys talk about this on connected and you know i think you made a very fair point

00:32:39   which is we hear all these stories about how the iphone can't be changed it's like pre-planned a

00:32:44   year and a half in advance and you can't change anything it's a slow it's a big ship turns slowly

00:32:49   so here are my theories one is that i mean first off evt there is a there they run test hardware

00:33:00   to find problems right like they they definitely do that yeah and and so what i would say is what

00:33:05   happens if there's a problem and there's two paths you can go down one is oh fix the problem

00:33:12   and the other is oh no we can't fix the problem there's not enough time to fix the problem

00:33:18   at which point you've got to have a fallback right which i imagine is revert right it's like either

00:33:24   wave off the whole product or in the case of an iphone and this particular thing let's just go

00:33:28   back to the old buttons because the new buttons aren't working the assumption is right that you've

00:33:33   got to make that any logical company would make in this situation if you are going to change

00:33:39   something about the hardware design it's a new component a new way of doing something

00:33:44   when you're going into like product development cycle you are including two designs right that

00:33:52   you have the design that has the new thing and then the design that has the new elements you

00:33:58   know you can do like materials colors that kind of stuff but without this new feature that you've not

00:34:03   done before right yeah they must in some cases and in some cases where it doesn't require particular

00:34:08   hardware changes they probably have like you know we've all seen those stories that are we took it

00:34:12   apart and there's an open pin that could be something but isn't there's just an empty space

00:34:19   in here yeah there was something that they were going to put there and they're like no at some

00:34:23   stage they're like no we're gonna just pop that out and not not make it and so so that's that's

00:34:29   my only question is like what it is right because there's two there's two options here i was talking

00:34:34   about like two paths and it's like did the is is it that it wasn't reliable in some way like maybe

00:34:41   the software was complicated or they and they weren't happy with how it was behaving or was

00:34:47   it a production issue where it up to this point everything worked and they thought this is going

00:34:52   to work and then they put it through the evt stage which is again not mass production but it is a

00:34:58   production stage of like when we make this product what's it going to be like and i my spider sense

00:35:05   tells me i'm not actually spider-man by the way and if i were i wouldn't tell you what i just

00:35:10   thought you took pictures of spider-man so yeah i just write a blog about spider-man i do a podcast

00:35:17   about spider-man but i assure you i'm not spider-man nope no i know him really well

00:35:23   but he you know but i've never introduced you to him because he's never around when

00:35:29   we're talking anyway my my spider sense tells what what are we even talking about here my spider

00:35:36   sense tells me that it might be that second one which is that they put this into production

00:35:39   and the production units came off for evt and they're like oh no this doesn't work right you

00:35:45   know one out of every eight is failing or right and and again you know if your apple and the iphone

00:35:52   has to ship you look at that and you're like pull it out of there right that's what you have to do

00:35:57   because you gotta ship it and there isn't i know it seems like a lot of time between now and

00:36:01   september but there is very little time in terms of ramping up production getting the factory ready

00:36:05   and then starting to make these things because they make a bunch of them in advance you gotta have

00:36:09   it locked down very soon so that's my guess is they put it into evt and whether it was a little

00:36:16   quirk that they decided they couldn't fix or whether it was the act of putting it into

00:36:20   production revealed a problem that they couldn't address um that that's my guess about what's going

00:36:26   on here i like to think that you know someone told someone finally found out about the idea that you

00:36:32   needed to go in and customize precious sensitivity levels to get a per case look and they were like

00:36:38   no let's let's let's send that one back to the drawing board we built a uh a new made for iphone

00:36:44   spec where every case manufacturer will embed an nfc chip in their case that indicates how much

00:36:51   pressure they require for their buttons to wave it off everybody we're gonna go back nope not gonna

00:36:57   do it nope forget about it apparently this one's going to the back of the queue may find its way

00:37:02   into the iphone 16 sure why not that's one more iphone mac rumors is reporting on some potential

00:37:09   ios 17 features that could be announced at wwdc there are quite a few things in this list some

00:37:14   stuff we've seen before it comes from uh a leaker that they consider to be uh verifiable from the

00:37:20   mac rumors forums and they you know it's one of these people that have been correct a bunch of

00:37:25   times in the past but i just want to touch on a couple of these heavily improved search being one

00:37:30   of them i don't really know what that means there isn't much more information than that but the thing

00:37:34   that i found interesting about this is i think it would be difficult for apple to stand on be on a

00:37:41   stage be in a presentation at the moment and say with a straight face anything to do with serie

00:37:45   intelligence in the age of ai like i think that's going to be a hard sell like whatever that might

00:37:51   be and maybe they just call it something else but back in the old back in days your anything like

00:37:56   this was considered part of serie intelligence right that you would search in the search thing

00:38:01   like powered by series intelligence like that's not going to fly now i feel like unless they're

00:38:06   going to tell us they're using a large language model for their search now which i don't think

00:38:10   is the time right well i think i think they might but but i think this is so so um i don't agree

00:38:17   with the idea that serie as a brand is so burned that it if apple goes to a new model it needs to be

00:38:24   uh liquidated however serie intelligence i always thought was a little bit of a stretch like they're

00:38:30   trying to sub brand serie in some ways and it it never i don't know it was always very amorphous

00:38:37   and it never really worked that well sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't um but in terms of the

00:38:42   broader picture here like yeah heavily improved search what does that mean does it mean that they

00:38:48   are using you know machine learning based assistant tech and and it look it doesn't have to be large

00:38:55   language models right they don't apple there's a lot of conversation about like well apple's

00:38:59   going to have to get on the large language model train the chat gbt train here but like they might

00:39:04   have a different approach that they feel works better for what is happening on their devices

00:39:09   what if there were different models that were queried by like a top level model uh different

00:39:15   models and data sources and return back information like i i definitely want serie to have a

00:39:20   conversational aspect where i can kind of like refine what we're talking about until i get the

00:39:24   answer i want large language models are good at that but like i'm open to the idea that apple does

00:39:30   it a little bit differently but yeah i'm a little worried i i think the point you're making here is

00:39:36   um the the bar has been raised and heavily improved is doing a lot of lifting there um

00:39:43   so can it get over the bar now that it's been raised or are we going to look at it and be like

00:39:48   no it's like more of the old thing search is better right and like that's that and i think

00:39:54   that's fine it's just like more for me of like the idea where these things used to be said they

00:39:58   were powered by serie in some way right i just i i would struggle now i honestly i would be surprised

00:40:04   if apple talk about serie for the next couple of years because i i would expect that they are

00:40:09   internally talking about like okay how do we how do we develop our own on-device models right unless

00:40:18   they have it unless they unless they have it i expect they have it i don't think it's now though

00:40:22   like but i expect they're working on it but who knows i would honestly i would love to see it

00:40:27   right just because i think it would be i would be really interested to see what that means to apple

00:40:34   like how does it run and work you know i wouldn't put it past them um it would probably be something

00:40:41   like opt into our you know super serie beta right uh or something like that i i think they will do

00:40:51   that at some point the question is just yeah when is it this year is it next year is the year after

00:40:55   that um but they may they may also take it in a different direction right like because i i strongly

00:41:02   believe that what they don't want is hallucinations right that they view serie as a as a tool that's

00:41:08   grounded in reality and that uh they they can't and i would say that this is the problem this is

00:41:14   the problem with search engines with apple implementing these things it's like it's fun

00:41:20   to be in a playground and look at a large language model and watch it like hallucinate things that

00:41:26   aren't real but if you're an information tool you can't do that it has to be based on reality

00:41:33   and if you can't if if there's an approach that makes it a little more constrained and a little

00:41:38   less fun but actually accurate that's the approach they need to take and that may be a lot harder to

00:41:44   do than just opening up chat gpt4 and saying good luck and then like i i was experimenting with gpt4

00:41:51   the other day uh we did an incomparable game show over the weekend and i thought what if i asked

00:41:56   these questions to chat gpt4 what would it answer and one of them was name four beatles songs and a

00:42:03   beetle and it it correctly listed three beetle songs and a beetle the fourth song was a wings

00:42:12   song okay and i i looked at it and i thought well this is actually funny if this was a contestant on

00:42:17   the show they got the answer wrong but if i'm google being if i'm apple and siri like no you

00:42:26   can't get that wrong you can't get answers to my questions wrong and that is i think the thing that

00:42:34   is the biggest gate to companies like apple really embracing this stuff is how do you do accuracy

00:42:41   detection you know because this this tool may demo really well but if it's not giving you proper

00:42:47   information it's useless essentially so it's it's boy i'm not sure there's anything more interesting

00:42:55   and sorry vr headset anything more interesting in terms of apple's long-term strategy

00:43:00   than what they've been doing behind the scenes with ai and machine learning models and because

00:43:08   of their secrecy we don't really know are they kind of on pace but keeping it secret and it's

00:43:16   not ready yet or are they way behind are they somewhere in between like we don't know we just

00:43:22   we just don't know but uh it feels really like they've gotta catch up or they're gonna be lost

00:43:28   yeah i wonder how much they can like this is like one of those things where if they're not gonna

00:43:34   talk to the internet and if they're not gonna you know as it it'd be complicated this is why

00:43:39   i'm interested in whatever apple's eventual thing will be like what will their stance be and maybe

00:43:45   they won't keep it on device right because siri wasn't on device for a really long time

00:43:51   i think they won't i think there'll be elements on device and your data will be on your device

00:43:55   that they'll use but that what they'll do my my guess is they'll do like plugins essentially

00:44:00   to trusted data sources whether they're run by apple or elsewhere and they're going to have some

00:44:06   sort of a privacy system where like each request is anonymized so that you know it goes to the

00:44:12   server at apple who knows who you are but then that server passes the information to a server

00:44:17   who doesn't know who it is gets the result back and then passes it back to you so you're you know

00:44:22   you're essentially anonymous um that's the kind of thing i would imagine that they would do is is that

00:44:30   using because so much of this is the importance is using good internet data sources for this

00:44:35   information like that example of gpt getting hooked up to wolfram alpha and suddenly being

00:44:41   able to do math which it couldn't do that's a good example of like you know you build you build out a

00:44:48   knowledge engine that includes the ability to hold a conversation with a human but you try to make it

00:44:52   more of that intelligent assistant thing where it's like it knows where to look and how to find

00:44:57   the right answer instead of it being it will make up an answer if it can't find it which is sort of

00:45:03   where we are with these chat bots a couple days ago i was um building a lego set that i've been

00:45:10   i've had for a couple of years and i finally got around to starting on it it's the original

00:45:14   mandalorian ship set i've forgotten its name now and i was like you know i was just sitting there

00:45:20   just building it and it was silent so i was like oh i thought to myself why don't i put on the

00:45:24   mandalorian soundtrack that sounds like fun so i asked my home pod played the mandalorian soundtrack

00:45:30   and it said playing mandalorian soundtrack season three that's not what i want so i was like asked

00:45:37   it again played a mandalorian soundtrack season one playing the mandalorian soundtrack season two

00:45:43   oh wow so that i asked it a third time and it played season two a third time my point of this

00:45:50   is the idea of seri like apple potentially being hesitant about seri hallucinating seri has such

00:45:56   a bad reputation for getting things wrong now right that like i think that that their appetite

00:46:02   should be different to google where google gets things right currently right like google's whole

00:46:09   thing you go to google and you type a thing and you're expected to get an answer that's correct

00:46:14   i'm not sure if people currently expect accuracy from seri en masse like i feel like in our

00:46:21   audience we do not expect that i don't know what general people do feel there are different levels

00:46:28   of what you're trying to do with seri though right sometimes you're trying to ask seri for facts

00:46:32   and you need to get accurate facts and i actually think seri is pretty good at at facts something

00:46:37   like apple music it's really unforgivable that it's so bad at that yeah and that's one of those

00:46:43   cases where i feel like apple could do a properly trained model but also for for apple music for the

00:46:50   apple music catalog literally they have the data right they have it exactly they could they can

00:46:55   build something out exactly but on top of that um that's where the value of the um the language

00:47:03   model that knows context comes in because it would allow you to say no the one from the first season

00:47:09   after your first query yeah and then it should get it right it might maybe it doesn't but like

00:47:14   you you having to make the same query over and over again to a an amnesiac voice assistant

00:47:21   is part of the problem because that's one of the things behind on actually more was then when i

00:47:27   opened up music and typed mandalorian season one into the search box the first result was exactly

00:47:33   what i was looking for so like why can it not perform the same search that i'm performing

00:47:41   with my fingers you know yeah i guess it's it's called chapter one and that probably confused it

00:47:49   that was what i thought right but when i search for season one it gets it right it gets it right

00:47:56   that that's that's that's like yeah i like i went through this too of like okay so technically it

00:48:01   calls it something else but the fact that the the the apple music apps search does the correct one

00:48:08   why can't siri just hear me and perform that search and then just do the thing i just it's

00:48:16   also got the little icon in the corner that shows that uh among my friends who's listening to that

00:48:20   it's mike it was me going back to this uh macroom's report about ios 17 apparently dynamic

00:48:28   island will be able to quote do a lot more this is the kind of a thing that we've been talking about

00:48:32   right of like now that it's out and available are other teams inside of apple realizing what they

00:48:37   might be able to do with a dynamic island right and and they've got a year or at least they've

00:48:41   got many months of feedback from developers saying i can't implement this because or i implemented

00:48:48   this but and they get to use those and prioritize those and actually find out internally and

00:48:54   externally like what's missing right because i mean i think that's a fundamental thing that

00:48:58   that happens with software like this is you build it internally secretly and you've got your ideas

00:49:04   that you've all come up with but then this is like we talked about shipping the headset like

00:49:08   then it meets reality and everybody's like oh why doesn't it do x and the answer is oh we didn't

00:49:15   think of it or we didn't prioritize it because we didn't think people would want that and then

00:49:19   you get that from five different people and you realize oh yeah that is something we should do

00:49:23   so i'm very excited that they are bringing it to the non-pro phones and making it do a lot more

00:49:31   because that suggests that apple thinks that there's something here it's important for the

00:49:37   platform and that they can keep building on it which is always the fear is it's going to be like

00:49:41   the touch bar and they're going to throw it out there and then ignore it until it fades away but

00:49:45   in this case like i like the dynamic island i wanted to do more but i really like it so i'm

00:49:51   excited that it might do more and i hope that they've been listening to everybody who's

00:49:55   developing apps for it and telling them what's missing i mean now that baseball season is going

00:49:59   on i've been using dynamic island in the mlb app and it's so great to be like using my phone and

00:50:03   i look up and it's got the score it's just so great it's great interactive home screen widgets

00:50:11   that could include quote one tap buttons sliders and other dynamic content is something that apple

00:50:17   is exploring this is maybe uh the shakiest of all of them based on the way it was written

00:50:22   it's kind of just like this is a thing that they're looking at this one interests me i am

00:50:28   definitely in the camp of i was nervous about widgets when we knew that they had no interactivity

00:50:37   of like all this feels like it's going to be a regression right from the the widgets we had before

00:50:42   which were just in the today view when you swiped over and you could have a bunch of buttons

00:50:47   and you could do things in them without needing to ever open an app and then basically as soon as the

00:50:53   new style of widget which could be put on the home screen was introduced i was very happy with them

00:50:58   i thought that overall they were better designed you had more visibility of them and i haven't felt

00:51:03   the requirement really to have buttons in widgets i agree i think widgets are good um i can see the

00:51:11   value of like what if i am always checking the weather for three cities yes i can put three

00:51:20   weather widgets on my screen yes but what if i could put one weather widget on my screen and then

00:51:26   tap to cycle through them yep that would be nice right i have stacks of what's going on like this

00:51:31   that are the same app and the app just offers multiple widget types and you and you swipe

00:51:36   through a stack in order to do it yeah you can do that then it doesn't take up the space but you've

00:51:41   got the that that is a kind of interactive widget right so what if you had the ability to have some

00:51:46   fundamental interaction i don't believe that they're ever going to get to the point where it's

00:51:49   like our friend james humps and building a whole calculator inside a widget right i think they don't

00:51:56   want it to be that well maybe not i mean maybe they do but i like the idea of more dynamic content

00:52:02   like uh you know some different layers of information or something that can rotate through

00:52:09   like cycle through some things every 30 seconds or every minute or something like that uh and uh

00:52:17   you know little sliders or buttons that do basic information because i think what they want

00:52:21   is the is not to break the concept that the home screen widget is not a live app that's running

00:52:28   it's some code that puts some data somewhere where apple can display it so this interactivity

00:52:35   is going to be like showing other content that it has inside it if that makes sense right i

00:52:41   don't think it's going to be like tap to load the new whatever it's going to be like okay

00:52:46   here's all your data here's the data here's my weather widget with three cities right

00:52:50   and it'll just say here's the weather data for city one two and three and and it does that every

00:52:55   however often it updates and then you get the little slider or button to tap or whatever that

00:53:00   lets you cycle through them but it's not truly interactive right it's more like it's an interactive

00:53:07   mode of displaying static information i feel like is probably what's going on here i think there are

00:53:13   a couple of simple ones if you have a media widget that you can pause it you know if you have one of

00:53:18   the ones for me time that's true time really has a little stop button on the widget and when you

00:53:22   press it it opens the app and stops the timer running you know the shortcut widget lets you

00:53:28   tap individual shortcuts right that's the only one that's that's it that's it no that that's actually

00:53:34   a good example of something that goes beyond information which is can i can i have items

00:53:39   that launch apps and perform behaviors or allow an app to perform a behavior in the background

00:53:45   that's a that's a great example because timer is a good example of that wouldn't it be nice if i

00:53:49   can make a timer widget with buttons on it and when i press the button it just does it it doesn't

00:53:54   launch the app and and tell me to press the button it just presses the button for me in the background

00:54:00   i don't even need to do anything about it or media controls sure being able to just press pause on

00:54:06   the media control or next and have it do the right thing yeah sure but again i think they're going to

00:54:12   keep it simple if they do this uh mark german has a couple of pieces of mac related news he's kind

00:54:19   of joining the throngs of people at the corral saying that the 15-inch macbook air is coming soon

00:54:26   mark has apparently seen logs of from developers that show that these machines are being tested

00:54:34   with third-party apps to validate their compatibility which is just like an interesting

00:54:38   thing that they do um why would it not work it's you know like but hey you know do your testing

00:54:46   uh and that these max will as expected feature an m2 processor and a piece of information that

00:54:52   i think is new i haven't seen before is that the 15-inch macbook air will have the same screen

00:54:57   resolution as the 14-inch macbook pro which makes sense so they've got another resolution to have

00:55:04   and then obviously it won't be as high quality as crisp as the 14 will be because it'll be a

00:55:09   little bit bigger so parts of mark's report this week are um are very weird okay i look i mean one

00:55:17   of the things he's doing is that he is trying to roll together previous reports of his and i assume

00:55:23   when he does that he's only including things that he's still confident about but some of the reports

00:55:28   are are older um like i saw uh somebody report uh excitedly about um what was it that what they

00:55:38   were doing it was something that he reported before um about sideline sideloading right he was

00:55:42   like oh i was 17 they're working to overhaul the software to open up the phone to sideloading and

00:55:46   he links to a story from december i don't i can't tell whether he's saying i checked with my source

00:55:54   and that's still happening or whether he's literally just pulling a link from december and

00:55:58   saying in december i reported that they're doing this i can't and i know that's a fine difference

00:56:03   but it's like it does matter because things do change and i'm unclear whether he still is

00:56:09   confident in this or whether he's got a report from december that's the last he knows of it but

00:56:14   he's rounding up all of his reports so he's going to throw it in there because that's one of the

00:56:17   things he wrote about ios 17 but the part of his report that really baffled me was about the m2

00:56:29   processor so he says apple has several new models in the works at least some of the new laptops will

00:56:37   be introduced at wwdc but the models coming in june probably won't boast major new m3 chips

00:56:44   instead they'll run something in line with the current m2 processors i don't know what this means

00:56:53   he says plural models coming in june and then says they won't have the m3 but they will have

00:57:00   something in line with the current m2 processors what does in line mean is it m two and a half

00:57:05   is it is it just the m2 is it that there'll be an m i mean i have a hard time believing a macbook

00:57:11   air is going to have an m2 pro option right what i would say is maybe the chips could be binned

00:57:17   differently so it might not right i don't like it might not be the exact m2 that's available in the

00:57:24   current okay okay but but new laptops plural and they i don't see a new laptop here other

00:57:33   than the 15-inch macbook air while the revision of the 13 what how do you revise an m2 macbook air

00:57:43   on the m2 yeah i don't know how is that a revision right it doesn't follow yeah so i agree so i don't

00:57:50   know this is what baffles me i don't know if what he's saying is apple's actually going to do an m2

00:57:55   air refresh with some different colors or something and maybe some different chip options

00:58:01   with different you know like maybe like you say binning maybe they make a cheaper version with

00:58:06   fewer cores that's available i don't know or again maybe we're reading too much into this and what

00:58:13   really he essentially means here is that they're just going to do an m2 15-inch air and the rest

00:58:19   of it's going to come later yeah yeah which is uh oh by the way the 13-inch macbook pro

00:58:24   that's something where i think they could do a revision and just say oh it's got the m it's got

00:58:31   m2 pro as an option now because it's got a fan in it right they can put an m2 pro pro chip in there

00:58:36   in the base model 13-inch macbook pro with touch bar they could do that so maybe that's it maybe

00:58:42   it's a a in line with current m2 processors update for that model but i don't i don't see how you up

00:58:48   an m2 air already exists so i'm not sure it can get updated and it's in a brand new enclosure

00:58:54   unless as you said they actually they finally put color in it like that you know what i mean right

00:58:58   like this they might actually do it but like if they've got an m3 air waiting in the wings the

00:59:02   last thing you would want to do right is is i would think unless it's not coming i don't think

00:59:07   it's waiting in the wings i i'm not sure how much in the wings it is because if it is then why like

00:59:15   what so then the 15 and the 13 will be on completely different chip years yeah right like that yeah

00:59:22   that's super weird though right okay so that would be the other way to go is say you know we're not

00:59:28   going to even do i mean we don't know maybe m3 is delayed yeah and we don't know that yet and

00:59:34   that m3 is going to come later and maybe they're like well we got to refresh the air and they do

00:59:39   it with the phone so maybe that's the answer is also we've got some new colors in the in the m2

00:59:44   air that everybody loves today we've got this new 15 inch m2 air and then we've got the 13 inch m2

00:59:49   air and it's got some new colors yay it's got a dark brown and a very dark green that are that

00:59:55   look like they're black but colors or they could do something bright wouldn't that be nice and that

01:00:00   would be i i think they might even spur some sales wouldn't that be nice like how do you spur sales

01:00:05   on a one-year-old laptop is like make it make it an orange orange yeah maybe mark is also reporting

01:00:12   that apple is working on an updated version of the max studio he actually says multiple so this is two

01:00:17   max studio follow-ups are planned but their timing is less clear and some of the other things that he

01:00:22   has less clear than what less clear than a lot of things are unclear here but well he does in that

01:00:28   report that you're referencing he references like in the next six months they've got like a bunch of

01:00:32   things that they're working on and this is like he doesn't have a time frame at all but they are

01:00:38   working on it which is good because there has been concern and discussion of like hey is this another

01:00:44   one of those could have replaced the mac pro they make one of them and then don't do another one

01:00:49   like the i know no it's great to hear that the max studio follow-ups are being planned that's

01:00:54   fantastic um i just so so what we're getting is this idea that there's going to be something

01:01:00   in june and then there's going to be some stuff in the fall as there always is and maybe that's where

01:01:05   the m3 debuts and there's max studio follow-ups coming but it's unclear when my guess would be

01:01:12   next spring for an m3 pro or m3 m3 max and m3 ultra that would be my guess because it feels to

01:01:22   me like what they're really settling on here is that desktops go every other year and laptops go

01:01:26   every year um or at least every other generation chip generation if it's not a year and laptops

01:01:32   go every chip generation and if that's true then you know yay and two max studio follow-ups also

01:01:38   the question is what does that mean is that two two different kind of variants on the max studio

01:01:42   or are they thinking out two generations with it either way happy to hear it as a max studio owner

01:01:49   i love that idea that it's it's gonna survive i love this and i think there's a good i think

01:01:55   there's a good place for it uh because it is faster than the the mac mini right the mac mini is

01:02:00   m2 and m2 pro and the and the mac studio is m is m1 ultra and max so they both serve kind of like

01:02:11   it's a nice product ramp there so yeah we'll see but um that report made me happy as as frustrated

01:02:18   as the rest of it yeah with the uh with the mysterious uh multiple laptops on something

01:02:24   in line with the m2 processor i don't know there's i think he's just hedging there is what's really

01:02:28   going on and he's not he's not doing his kind of wink wink nudge nudge thing i think he's just

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01:04:32   electric for their support of this show and relay fm so we have some more from mark german uh he

01:04:39   had his kind of like pre-wwdc report i don't know if this is going to be the the actual one that we

01:04:47   will go into wwc with or if there will be anything sooner he usually has kind of a a report like this

01:04:54   before every apple event right that we're expecting yeah and he'll and then things are gonna right as

01:04:58   things get closer he's gonna hear things yeah he's gonna update it but this is one of those things

01:05:02   with bloomberg especially that they want that refresher kind of thing of like because he trickles

01:05:06   it out during the year and i think it's fair to say that a lot of people aren't paying attention

01:05:10   and so this gives him a chance to say all right they've announced wwdc let me tell you what i've

01:05:14   already reported about what's going to be there and then throw in some new stuff if he knows it

01:05:18   and there are a couple of things that this uh report that i thought could be interested in

01:05:22   touching on uh obviously mark says what we're expecting is that the headset will be the star

01:05:27   of the show it will feature the hardware the accompanying os and the sdk for developers

01:05:33   a quote from mark's story i'm told the device will come with a clear story for developers in terms of

01:05:38   how they'll want to use it and much of the week-long conference will showcase the headsets

01:05:42   onboard app store and accompanying tools right makes sense right what you'd hope this is actually

01:05:50   last year when the rumors were that this was going to happen maybe last year or we were hoping

01:05:54   this is the scenario right which is it's a new platform you're at the developer conference now's

01:06:00   the time to lay everything out about how this thing's going to work and what we want from

01:06:05   developers and get all give them all the details and then you know they'll ship it later in the

01:06:10   year also like from that uh can we talk about is ios and ipod os not going to introduce major

01:06:17   features it will focus on smaller improvements we've touched on these in the last couple of weeks

01:06:21   you mentioned a minute ago about the uh opening up right the side loading yeah german mentions

01:06:27   that they are still working on the potential ability to open up the iphone to support third

01:06:32   party app stores in ios 17 but not expecting for that to be a part of wwc itself that made sense to

01:06:39   me that like in ios 17's life cycle this may occur i would not expect this to be a part of the wwc

01:06:47   presentation like do you remember there was many years ago i think it was the verge where phil

01:06:55   schiller sat down with the verge like a week before wwc to talk about the there were like

01:07:01   subscription price changes that were coming i think it was the year when they introduced the

01:07:06   15 if someone was subscribed for a year or longer and they they got out in front of the

01:07:13   keynote so that everybody was already sort of defused about that issue before apple made its

01:07:19   news and i imagine that when and if apple ever do third-party app stores they do it i reckon it's

01:07:27   often or before but like in that idea of like we're not going to ruin quote unquote our

01:07:32   presentation by just having everyone focus on this one thing which is not the thing we want people to

01:07:38   focus on the last last thing they want them to focus on also it sounds like these regulations

01:07:42   are going to happen later in the year and it sounds like everybody's scrambling to do this

01:07:45   and so it's not something that they would talk about and they'll leave it for a later

01:07:50   a later time i think you're exactly right about that i will put in one thing for people to look

01:07:55   for we'll probably come back to this when we maybe even when we draft i don't know um

01:08:02   watch for shapes and silhouettes and hints and and and faint smells of this in announcements

01:08:13   right because that's where i think you might see it is if there are curious mechanisms

01:08:20   for app security and maybe and it might even not be in the sessions it may be in the developers

01:08:30   digging into the beta but like that's where i might expect first confirmation of this existing

01:08:36   is people looking at features you know and they do this from time to time people looking from

01:08:40   at features that apple just says this is a feature and you look at it and you go yeah but why is this

01:08:44   a feature and you think oh this would be a feature you would need to do if you were going to do uh

01:08:51   third-party app stores or side loading in general and and i'm you know i just i'm not saying it'll

01:08:56   be there but that would be one of the things that i would watch for in terms of a sign a little hint

01:09:02   that this is where they were headed even if they're not ready to announce that feature yet

01:09:05   yeah it's like i could imagine there could be like hey we have this new api

01:09:12   for how to handle payments like don't even worry about it right yeah but if you could just implement

01:09:18   it and actually you have to and we're gonna make you that'd be super good like if we just change

01:09:22   something but you don't need to worry about it here's a session about it later on just watch

01:09:29   that you know i can imagine this kind of or like or not even that of like why is there a session

01:09:34   about this i was thinking of something like hey so we're gonna introduce a new thing it'll be in

01:09:38   state of the union or something we're gonna introduce a new part of app review and every

01:09:43   developer's like oh god a new part of aperture and it's like well no we're gonna have an explicit

01:09:47   you know you all know notarization from a friend mac os right notarization who y'all know how about

01:09:55   you know our friend saul he does the notarization he's gonna look at your apps we're gonna have a

01:10:04   it's gonna be very familiar because now all apps that go in the app store are gonna have that

01:10:08   process in addition to the existing process and developers i mean i'm making that up but something

01:10:13   like that i know developers are gonna be like it already does scans and it already does i know i

01:10:17   know it does but just watch that right because there'll be something in the process where you're

01:10:21   like why did you change this process oh because every app's gonna get that now couple of things

01:10:27   this reminds me of one is when they had the session on size classes that's the classic one

01:10:33   people mention right classic right what if things could be different sizes a scenario in which your

01:10:40   iphone screen could be a different size why would an ipad app need to change its physical size who

01:10:47   could tell interesting well it's because you know the iphone and ipad are different sizes and that's

01:10:51   totally why well why don't i just do an iphone version and an ipad version no don't do that you

01:10:57   know what i mean what have you done the other one was a few years ago where they were like hey look

01:11:02   at all these developers coming back to the app store and it's like wait what like the mac app

01:11:06   so i was like no but these apps won't work but look don't worry about it though it's fine you know

01:11:11   yeah adobe and bare bones and microsoft they're all coming back to the mac app store it's great

01:11:17   uh watch os 10 will be the biggest os update which is interesting but you know we spoke about that

01:11:25   like we're looking at potentially a redesign here and love it mac laptop announcements most likely

01:11:31   the macbook air as we mentioned is kind of wrapping it out there it's what we might it does

01:11:36   i'm actually a little surprised that they would put that in the event i feel like if you've just

01:11:39   got a macbook air just drop it in may i i feel like what you're not gonna be busy enough with

01:11:44   the headset like why do you need more i would i would not put it past them to to not to kick it

01:11:51   out of wwc and have it be a few weeks before a few weeks after just to get it out of there because you

01:11:57   know what you don't need yeah it's a distraction unless they unless they want it to be a distraction

01:12:02   but i don't think they do um like hardware doesn't need to happen at wwc and if it's just a a bigger

01:12:08   macbook air and it's not like a mac pro announcement or something then it's not even like the

01:12:12   appropriate audience can you imagine like the hands-on area like the saddest little display

01:12:18   of all time right which is the the 15-inch macbook air as everybody's trying to get their hands on the

01:12:24   headset on the headset and this little map this to me feels like hey hey it's in the keynote now in

01:12:32   case of this other thing we're not going to include right about time or whatever they might want it to

01:12:38   be and or they you know they've already made some videos for it and they did it all at the same time

01:12:43   and it's very easy for them to just like it's out of the keynote now we're going to do it in may or

01:12:48   something yeah like that or july mm-hmm maybe maybe i i look if you've got it and you think it'll

01:12:58   benefit you then announce it but i it seems like it's going to be packed maybe they're maybe maybe

01:13:03   not maybe they're like well there's not that much about the other os's we're going to do the reality

01:13:06   headset but there's only so much we can say about that having a some meat and potatoes in there for

01:13:10   our developer audience about a mac laptop uh okay all right but i'm not sure the 15-inch macbook air

01:13:16   is that so i i don't know um the watch os 10 thing i still am scratching my head about but uh yeah

01:13:27   but there's there's look they they they had their first cut at it and then they sort of like took

01:13:32   stuff away and they added a few things it would be i i don't feel like apple has done the let's do a

01:13:39   new a rethink of watch os i think they've done little bits and pieces here and there and like

01:13:46   an example is like remember time travel i had to really that wanted to throw me off yes i do remember

01:13:53   time i was a joke you like asking me is this like a general question it's a doctor who question i've

01:13:58   got for you don't you're trivia uh time travel was like you could take your watch face and then use

01:14:03   the use the uh crown the digital crown to like move through time and it would it had it had the

01:14:10   idea was like you could move forward and see like what was next on your schedule but it also had the

01:14:14   effect of if you bumped your your digital crown it changed the time the actual actual time on the

01:14:20   watch yes to the wrong time which is not what you want so then they got rid of that feature but like

01:14:26   i think that if it done properly using your digital crown spinning it while you're on the

01:14:34   watch face could do something right it could do something it could adjust something in the

01:14:39   complications it could scroll the watch face off and have like a widget view it could like i don't

01:14:45   know it could do something but what it does is nothing and the reason it does nothing is because

01:14:51   of time travel so again it would be kind of nice if like they repurpose the side button which was

01:14:58   originally digital touch and they made that into app switcher and all that like i i would love to

01:15:03   see them if this is what this is to for it to be a real rethink of like okay learning everything

01:15:08   we've learned about the watch let's start from some basics instead of just patching this thing

01:15:14   that has been you know out there since the first version of the watch so we'll see you know saying

01:15:20   about things you've forgotten something i was reminded of uh when i was looking up something

01:15:24   a couple of days ago do you remember glances on watchos glances yes this is part of i think

01:15:32   watchos one i know i don't remember if it went past that you would swipe up from the bottom of

01:15:37   the watch and it would show you pieces of information like here's your heart rate here's

01:15:42   your next appointment your calendar and they took that and made a control center instead yeah and

01:15:47   they also just got rid of glances completely yeah that's the thing like it was it was one of the

01:15:51   original failed parts of watchos like when it was like watch kit i think it was part of the watch kit

01:15:58   api stuff so like what this reminded me of when i was looking at there was widgets right you know

01:16:03   we were talking about like maybe dynamic stuff widget stuff how could you change something in

01:16:08   watchos that was one of the things that i was thinking about that yeah um with it in the chat

01:16:13   says time travel sort of exists in the the solar dial watch face we'll do some adjustments

01:16:18   it has like little bits left but what i'm saying is sort of like that's a big gesture that you

01:16:23   could probably do with something in your user interface right of your watch that instead is

01:16:27   sort of like uh a watch face has something that it does with it i i can just see apple bringing in

01:16:32   the steamroller there and being like nope new new paradigm now because time travel became a thing

01:16:38   for a while that was a setting and then it just went away faded away because it was an interesting

01:16:46   idea but just the exit the it's like a great idea and like a good demo but in use is lends to

01:16:57   confusion yeah i think so so part of it is the way that it was implemented is if you accidentally

01:17:04   spun the dial a little bit uh you got the wrong time that was a problem i could see an argument

01:17:10   that like if you're on a watch face that's got a calendar on it that you can spin the dial and like

01:17:15   if you if you it can tell you're actually spinning the dial it's not an accident and you're trying to

01:17:21   advance or go back that the your calendar complication would roll to the next event

01:17:28   right but not changing the time on your watch which was cute but really confusing potentially

01:17:36   so like i could see again there's an argument to be made about like what if you could advance your

01:17:41   data or and at that point it's like well what if you could scroll if i've got a weather widget with

01:17:46   one city on it what if i could scroll to the next city right like again there's other things you

01:17:50   can maybe do with it so and my larger point is just there's stuff like that all over watchos that

01:17:55   is sort of like you know they're patching it they're taping it up that we took this thing out

01:17:59   we put this thing in and i'd like to see them revisit it now from like a top i know this is

01:18:04   going to terrify people but like an ios 7 kind of thing sorry calm down everybody calm down i would

01:18:12   like i i think at watchos deserves that kind of let's think about this moment and you know anytime

01:18:22   you do that you're going to make some people mad but i i do think it kind of needs it you want all

01:18:28   the watch faces to get thinner yeah i want everything to be flat and thin and unreadable

01:18:34   and flat and thin i you know i i was seven wasn't quite ready and was frustrating in a lot of ways

01:18:44   but i'm just gonna say it i don't get ios 6 nostalgia at all i see screenshots where people

01:18:52   are like oh look at this big fat skeuomorphic boy with its big wood grain and the bulges here and

01:19:00   i hate it yeah i hate it i don't get i get the nostalgia i get the nostalgia but like ios 7 had

01:19:07   lots of issues it needed to a lot of things to be resolved by shipping it they got a lot of pushback

01:19:13   and they made changes it was not remotely perfect but it needed to happen and i'm glad it happened

01:19:22   there i said it i'm glad it happened i i wish it had been further along i wish it had not been

01:19:27   quite so extreme but the fact is they came out with the extreme version and then they spent uh

01:19:32   some time peddling that back i was seven was a good idea it's more usable like i am on board with

01:19:36   this okay right like it was a good idea because look what i think i think i think that a lot of

01:19:42   people forget is that apps started to look like this like the flat design that was what we called

01:19:48   it flat design apps started to adopt this style of design before ios 7 came along and made the whole

01:19:57   thing sure right like this is what it looks like on the on the os because skeuomorphic design

01:20:04   this like making things look real became very heavy it became very intensive everything looked

01:20:10   dark whenever i look at screenshots of ios 6 phones everything looks really dark and it was

01:20:16   also also it put a lot of hurdles into app development because to make a quote unquote

01:20:20   good looking app you needed to be able to understand the design textures which was really

01:20:25   hard and now you don't need that so much so i think it was a good thing was ios 7 too far in

01:20:30   a bunch of ways yes but that was because it seemed like it was rushed right like it was it was fast

01:20:37   they had they didn't have a lot of time which is why like ios 7 beta 1 to the shipping version

01:20:43   looked so different and yes it then still took a lot of time and there are still places where like

01:20:49   buttons still don't look like buttons and like i know right you know like that is one of the

01:20:54   bad parts that we still have but overall that design idea was great and i agree with you

01:20:59   watch os 10 should be watch os is like a big rethink moment like if you just start it again

01:21:06   where would you end up i would like to see what that might be exactly there's one thing about

01:21:10   ios 7 that i think is actually the biggest failing of ios 7 which is ios 7 pushed

01:21:17   apple has already changed this right now you have this whole thing about like it'll stay on the

01:21:23   previous version and give you software updates and say would you like to update to the new version

01:21:27   yeah the number one worst thing that ios 7 did actually was discourage regular users from ever

01:21:34   updating their phones yeah because i still see this with my friends and family like it can't

01:21:39   ios 7 was such a change it changed their phones out from under them and they're and they were like

01:21:44   oh i'm never doing an apple software update again which isn't true right you can't do that but it

01:21:49   means that they cancel you know and say no i'm gonna resist that and i was visiting my mom and

01:21:55   she's like should i really do that like it's gonna change my phone i'm like no it's a security update

01:22:00   do it and uh but that totally came because ios 7 confused so many people when it launched

01:22:07   because they just updated their phones so their phones just updated they're like what happened

01:22:10   to my phone and that like you gotta you can't do that right you gotta be when you make changes to

01:22:16   somebody's phone out from under them you gotta you gotta warn them you gotta explain what you're

01:22:20   gonna do you gotta walk them through it and i know you want everybody to to update but you gotta be

01:22:25   gentle with it and that i think is actually the biggest sin of ios 7 it was a huge change and

01:22:30   apple just dropped it on people because they were in their own little bubble of like oh yeah we're

01:22:34   just gonna push out a software update it's like no you're gonna actually completely change the

01:22:38   look and behavior of the phone of everybody who's got an iphone and they're gonna hate you for it

01:22:43   and i know you need it to get out there but you gotta find a strategy to mitigate this a little

01:22:48   bit i think that's the biggest sin of ios 7 do you want to talk very quickly about just touch on

01:22:55   make something wonderful which was the book that came out last week and website epub um i just want

01:23:02   to just put out there everyone that i see that has a physical version of this book just know i'm very

01:23:07   jealous of you yeah same but that i really do hope that apple finds a way to make it available but i

01:23:13   don't think that they will but if you're a an apple or disney employee who has no interest in that

01:23:18   book get in touch um we wouldn't mind it i liked it i i i i'm always okay i think i've talked about

01:23:27   it on the show before but like the steve jobs archive is it makes me uneasy and it makes me

01:23:33   uneasy because it is steve jobs's friends and family trying to control the narrative about

01:23:37   who steve jobs was and that makes me uneasy just because i don't love the idea of anybody kind of

01:23:44   like saying we're just gonna uh there's this guy who lived and died and now we're gonna tell his

01:23:49   story in a way that that makes us happy and that makes people remember him in the way we want right

01:23:56   at the same time i also completely acknowledge that if you don't do that you just let history

01:24:02   decide and it is not a very careful judgment that happens it's kind of this thing that just

01:24:09   organically emerges and you end up with a historic figure who has been you know reduced to a very

01:24:14   simple version of themselves that may not focus on the stuff that is what was important about them or

01:24:22   what we judge to be important about them so on that level i appreciate why it exists while at

01:24:27   the same time being kind of uneasy about the idea that they are straight up like myth making about

01:24:34   steve jobs so there it is i said it that said i thought that the book was really well done

01:24:39   i it's it's curated by essentially it's a historian who's basically the operator of the

01:24:44   steve jobs archive and she was a uh uh uh academic historian before that as well um it's very well

01:24:53   done it's it's a collection of things from like transcripts of things he said and things he wrote

01:24:58   and especially he sent emails to himself with his notes about what he was thinking about stuff that

01:25:03   became a habit for him i guess his high cloud sinking wasn't so great um and i mean it was a

01:25:08   habit right from way back in the day and that was the thing you could do is send yourself emails so

01:25:12   he did that and so that gives us a lot of insight into you know all sorts of things he was working

01:25:18   on or thinking about and there are other emails in there too i think the first couple of parts of the

01:25:23   book where he talks about his childhood and his and growing up and then the early days at apple

01:25:28   and going off to next i think is the most interesting stuff in the book the third act of it

01:25:33   is very much more like here's what he said on stage at macworld expo and here's a memo he sent

01:25:38   out to all apple employees and here's a memo he sent out to pixar employees and you know the uh

01:25:46   steve jobs's recollections of childhood are really interesting memos from the ceo less so right

01:25:53   memos from the ceo are less interesting than that so that that end part is not as it's as good

01:25:58   although it does have his stanford commencement speech which is amazing and has the uh and has

01:26:03   his drafts draft ideas from his email which is wild um so anyway yeah it's a it's a it's worth

01:26:10   it's free it's free i think it's worth looking at if you are interested in steve jobs and apple at

01:26:14   all because there's stuff in there that i i had had seen before but there's a lot of stuff in there

01:26:18   that i had not seen before or had forgotten about that um was interesting to hear essentially in his

01:26:24   own words so so yeah i i definitely recommend it i was going to give it a pass and then i was like

01:26:30   well look i should scroll through it and then i found that i was really scrolling through it

01:26:34   the website's really beautiful too and then i i read the rest of them the epub and you know it's

01:26:39   uh yeah it's it's worth it's worth it it is not uh boring you know business book about a famous man

01:26:49   nor is it a you know like a biography or something it really is just sort of like who was this guy

01:26:56   in his own words uh and then he became a ceo and he sent out memos and then he's less interesting

01:27:01   but that's fine i will say like i i i understand what you're saying for me

01:27:08   i like that the people that love him are telling a version of him that they felt

01:27:12   to be true you know like um i think that that is as valuable as any other story that can be told

01:27:21   of like people that love him wanting to be remembered this way i think that i think that

01:27:25   that is important as well as like here is the out and out objective history of a human and their

01:27:32   life yeah no i i understand the impulse and i i appreciate it um i think maybe part of what takes

01:27:38   me aback is that it's not just like hey it's it's lorraine jobs and johnny i've and we're working on

01:27:46   a project about our friend steve it's we have created the steve jobs archive now the steve jobs

01:27:52   archive has released this and you know it is it is so structured and calculated and designed to be

01:28:00   it's like apple university is the internal tool at apple to like keep the culture what they want it to

01:28:05   be um this is like that for the outside it's like we're gonna manage steve jobs's image and again it

01:28:13   makes me uneasy because you're right there there are things that they're not going to want to talk

01:28:16   about it's not it's not a place for the unvarnished truth it's not the steve jobs presidential library

01:28:20   maybe i'll be proven wrong maybe they'll be like yeah we've got bad stuff in here too check it out

01:28:24   but uh i don't think that's why it's there i think it's there to burnish his reputation

01:28:28   and that's fine i understand it again history is going to do what it's going to do the way you

01:28:33   fight that is by doing something like this where you're like no we're gonna make we're gonna say

01:28:38   what you should remember about steve jobs we're gonna be the ones who define that that what gives

01:28:42   me pause is that like it's not the whole story it's the story they want you to know about him and

01:28:46   and they have every right to do that it's just again there's just part of me that's like but it's

01:28:52   not the whole story right it is it is what you want but i understand why i would do it if i were

01:28:56   them i would absolutely do it yeah yeah because you're like i obviously have access to his email

01:29:01   and we've seen emails that came in like subpoenas depositions and depositions right which is a

01:29:09   different man but it's still the same man you know and so like it is you know and it's like

01:29:15   in the depositions we don't get the good stuff right yeah and and you mix it all together right

01:29:20   like you you mentioned on connected uh reading uh lisa's book yeah right which is a very different

01:29:27   view of small fries it's very good but it's a very good book but it shows a very complicated man

01:29:34   yeah so so the truth is that steve jobs archive in some ways is trying to be part of the conversation

01:29:40   about steve jobs yeah that can get the stuff that they have access to because they have access to

01:29:45   his papers and emails and all those things in order to tell the story the way they want to tell

01:29:51   it everybody else gets to tell it the way they want to tell it so why not the people who knew

01:29:55   him well and loved him and have access to all of his stuff i again i think it's totally reasonable

01:30:00   i just what what my reaction to the steve jobs archive is this is bad it shouldn't exist it's

01:30:05   not that what it is is it's know what it is just everybody know what it is because it is the people

01:30:13   friends and family of steve jobs trying to myth make about him not i'm not saying like they're

01:30:19   lying about him i'm saying they're trying to give you a very specific image of steve jobs and just

01:30:24   know that because they're not that's their that's their job is to burnish his reputation for history

01:30:29   and impart his wisdom on all of us in the meantime like and that's just that's just be aware of that

01:30:35   that that's that's what you're getting but it's a good book i liked it this episode is brought to

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01:33:08   and relay fm let's do some ask upgrade questions to finish out today's episode of the upgrade

01:33:16   podcast first one comes from peter peter says jason mentions that he's a runner every now and

01:33:22   then as an upgrade listener and an amateur runner myself i'm curious to learn more about jason's

01:33:27   running do you run races do you run daily weekly sporadically how do you use your apple watch to

01:33:34   track your runs if at all do you use third-party apps to do this you just stick with apple's tools

01:33:38   calling me a runner is really pushing it i have run i do run i do it for exercise because it's

01:33:49   pretty easy to do i mean the classic thing about running is you can just go run and you don't need

01:33:54   equipment and you just run around my neighborhood in this case um i have done a couple of virtual

01:34:03   5ks i've never even done one of those in person it was during the pandemic especially when i was

01:34:07   running uh when i was running regularly so the story is i'm not running currently because last

01:34:13   summer i tripped over a curb and bruised my ribs and then i didn't run for a while partially because

01:34:18   my ribs hurt and partially because i did it while i was running and i didn't decided not to run for

01:34:22   a while uh and then the other the other reason is uh we got a dog and the dog is young and she's 12

01:34:33   months now and um the dog is extremely high energy and so my my my old dog was an old dog who was not

01:34:45   who is extremely low energy so i have to take i mean honestly taking the dog out once a day is

01:34:50   probably not enough and i need to take her out twice a day but that really eats into my time

01:34:56   that i would use for other things so i end up doing a very fast-paced dog walk instead of a run

01:35:00   and that's just how it is now will i get back to it probably um and i mean we'll see so in terms of

01:35:09   the tech i did i did like three days a week that was my run goal was three days a week i used

01:35:15   couch to 5k to get up to speed i actually use a pro an app called intervals pro which lets you

01:35:22   program in a couch to 5k plan i originally used the couch to 5k app but i found intervals pro and

01:35:28   intervals pro is great because it's an apple watch app as well you can program in uh your couch to 5k

01:35:34   program and then when you get up to the 5k which i i would do after you know i'm gonna have to start

01:35:39   it again at the beginning uh but when you when you get up to that point then instead of those

01:35:43   intervals i was just setting out like eventually i get to the point where i can just use the running

01:35:48   app the the activity running activity and say just run open goal or for 30 minutes or whatever

01:35:54   but um intervals pro was the thing that i used to get up to that point so highly recommend that if

01:36:00   you're doing a program and you want to use just the apple watch because it runs directly on the

01:36:05   apple watch and it means i don't need to run with a phone and uh and then i listen to overcast again

01:36:10   on the apple watch so it was a i i finally got it to where i was living the dream where i had you

01:36:14   know air pods in my ears and my apple watch on my wrist and that's it and it was tracking me

01:36:19   it was telling me when to stop and start running and it was playing my podcast while i was doing

01:36:23   that and that was great um and yes when i tripped over the curb both my air pods flew out of my ears

01:36:29   onto the sidewalk it was a road that was shut down um and i was i was running down it because

01:36:36   that's fun and then i got toward the end and i went up on the sidewalk and i missed the i missed

01:36:43   the cut out for the driveway and hit the curb and uh tried to take it in my hands and and and uh

01:36:49   and elbows and uh i took a lot of it in that but uh i i still made contact with my ribs and and

01:36:57   so you decided to go yeah i'll rip the old rib first actually yeah well it was second it was

01:37:04   second but i didn't i hadn't stopped enough of the force yeah uh and you know so basically i walked

01:37:09   didn't break anything but basically i walked back home very slowly and got in the car and went to

01:37:13   the er and all that kind of stuff anyway i would like to run again um the dog is the question and

01:37:21   you know i could maybe i could run with the dog i'm not the dog is a handful right now so so yeah

01:37:25   i'm spending all my kind of outdoor time on that instead but um but yeah i love the whole wireless

01:37:31   apple watch and headphones um thing and i would go my my wife would drop me off downtown on her way

01:37:39   to work on wednesdays and i would run back home which was great it was like two and a half miles

01:37:44   and that was usually when connected was on live and i would actually use broadcasts on the apple

01:37:49   watch to stream it live just apple watch because it's a cellular model loved that too that was

01:37:55   really great and then i would use siri to send text messages to mike and stephen uh during the

01:38:00   show which was also i thought was hilarious so i'll get back to it someday now you just do it

01:38:05   when you're in the shower i do i do i i listen to lots of podcasts in the show i don't have a

01:38:11   commute so it's walking the dog and in the shower is when i listen to all my podcasts and driving

01:38:14   to curling that's about it yeah was this the other day i'm just calling you out for the other day

01:38:19   when you were sending us live feedback from the shower i believe from the show i i i honestly i

01:38:26   did step out of the shower when i was done and i tiled off and then i sent you the feedback

01:38:31   but it was all composed in the shower yeah so i wanted to detail that so like about two minutes

01:38:35   later i said oh send from the shower i like that idea of like i'll write it when i'm in the shower

01:38:40   but i'll do the decency of waiting to press send until i'm out of the shower well i i didn't type

01:38:44   it in in the shower i composed it in my mind in the shower but then i stepped out because well

01:38:48   using a touch screen when you're soaking wet is not it's not great i don't recommend that i don't

01:38:53   remember what the text of it is exactly but carrie will often recall and i think she has it saved of

01:38:59   uh a set of messages that i tried to send her i think by email from my apple watch while i was

01:39:07   swimming and so like i was thinking of a thing and then i paused at the side of the pool and like was

01:39:13   dictating and was having to be like no like and it was just like dictating like no i didn't mean

01:39:18   to say that i am doing this while swimming like it's like a whole thing that just went on forever

01:39:23   because yeah so these things are funny uh sam asks whenever apple releases a proper mass consumer

01:39:29   headset whether that's the rumoured 2023 one or a future version how do you think these will be

01:39:35   featured in apple stores do you think they'll have test headsets out for customers to try on in store

01:39:42   do manage demonstrations or leave customers with no ability to try them out before buying

01:39:48   uh great question i think there'll be some video loops in the stores showing what it's like i think

01:39:54   that there will be hardware in the store it'll be a little like the apple watch try-on thing

01:39:57   where you will be able to do try it on and they'll have a you know a cloth and they'll wipe it down

01:40:02   remind me jason or someone in the chat the original apple watch did you have to book a try-on

01:40:12   maybe i think you had to book try-ons so i think so that'll be what it is probably is you'll book

01:40:20   you'll book your try-on experience and what it'll be is it's going to be a like a if not a video loop

01:40:26   like an app that is always running that is an environment for you to be in or maybe a couple

01:40:33   different environments that it cycles between but it'll be like a super controlled do this now do

01:40:39   that kind of thing but i do think they will do it because they're going to want to have people

01:40:43   experience it just got saying yes there were you booked they had some walk-in appointments but

01:40:50   booking was the preferred thing and yes i expect that's going to be the case right you will

01:40:53   you will arrange a try-on and you will go probably just to bigger stores maybe and i think that was

01:40:59   a thing at first too and you will go and you will try on and then make your purchasing decision

01:41:06   later down the line if at all but i think it's going to have to be right like that's

01:41:13   going to need to be an important part of this like yeah for sure that's why they've got apple

01:41:20   stores everywhere right yes they want to reach people with a product like this they're really

01:41:23   going to people are going to want to see it and they a lot of them most of them are never tried

01:41:27   a vr anything before and they're going to want to do it and you know and we'll see you know we'll

01:41:33   see how that goes but yeah i'm sure there is a team inside apple retail uh or who is working with

01:41:40   the people working on this product of like how are we going to sell this thing in stores you know

01:41:46   this reminds me a little bit of the conversations that people have had in the past about TVs and cars

01:41:53   but more TVs of like how will you equip the apple store to deal with this and what i'm thinking of

01:42:02   here is just in general virtual reality requires physical space right it does and so if you are

01:42:10   going to want to have multiple try-on stations right like you know you're going to have like

01:42:15   be like four six people at a time using these things you can't just have one at a time like

01:42:20   the physical space requirement of that is going to be difficult for them in some apple store locations

01:42:27   now i can imagine for me in london the coven garden apple store for example which at a time

01:42:33   i don't know if it still is was the by square footage biggest apple store in the world is huge

01:42:38   across multiple floors very easily could accommodate this but the regent street store

01:42:44   which is just around the corner i don't think it could that store is not huge it's big it's very

01:42:50   big but it's not mammoth but it is always packed full of people and so like i'm intrigued like how

01:42:57   will they manage this they'd be like a little area of the store which is kind of roped off and they're

01:43:04   like you know like in a way right so like you can't just bump into someone who's currently in

01:43:09   a vr experience like i'm really intrigued to see how they will manage this without it dominating

01:43:18   the apple stores that they put them in or maybe they want that i don't know i i think you keep

01:43:24   it tightly controlled and it's it and it's limited and it's a loop or whatever app that is not uh

01:43:31   that you're not going to be walking around or anything you're just going to be turning around

01:43:34   and they're going to have like they're going to figure out what the radius is and they're going

01:43:37   to put it in a place where it's not in the way and like i i think that they have to think through all

01:43:41   of those issues because there's look you know as i say like they can put it in bigger stores

01:43:46   but eventually it needs to be in every store like if this is going to be a thing that they're going

01:43:50   to make as a product you know for everyone my local mall store right they're going to have to

01:43:56   put it at like they do with the apple watch they're gonna have to put it at a table and

01:43:59   they're gonna have to have people there and like i said i think it's going to be more like they're

01:44:04   going to have them tethered and so they can't obviously go much past right standing by the table

01:44:10   and the whole thing is going to be really more like you're going to face front and turn around

01:44:14   like with your head but you're not going to turn around with your body and you're not going to take

01:44:18   any steps and that's not what what it is there are a few people in discord talking about the fact

01:44:23   that some of the bigger newer stores have these rooms that you can have like they do experiences

01:44:27   in i don't think that's going to be the case like they want people to see people using them like

01:44:34   apple stores are marketing as much as they are stores which is why everything is out

01:44:39   like they will want other customers to see people having a fun giggly time with the headset on and

01:44:45   be like what is that thing right like they do not want to make the headset like a please sir come

01:44:51   over here into the special room and like we'll close the door on you and no one will see you

01:44:57   right like they want this to be a thing which other people are seeing right which is why like

01:45:04   that's like the the it's one of the reasons i expect that the apple watch triumph thing looked

01:45:09   the way it did right we're gonna get this thing out and here's all these bands choose the band

01:45:15   like it's it is a experience for you but also for people that aren't you to look at and be like

01:45:22   what is that i i want to know what that is because that looks interesting you know what do you agree

01:45:27   with me yeah like it's an inside outside experience right for for everyone around

01:45:34   i'm you know people who listen to this show for long enough know that we love

01:45:38   thinking about what they do in the stores and that is an very interesting part of this

01:45:42   last question today comes from brian do you think apple would eventually rename iCloud to something

01:45:48   like apple cloud or is it one of the i names that will likely stick around forever like i mac and

01:45:54   iphone what a question i i think it'll stay unless they have some real reason to change it yeah i

01:46:03   think i think it is like i mac and iphone right it's just it is the name of the product and i

01:46:09   don't think there was ever a case where they were really trying to beat every i product out of the

01:46:15   out of the product line or you know i i think it was more we should not default to i for products

01:46:23   i think that that's what they were going for so like the iphone and the ipad i think are not going

01:46:26   to become apple phone and apple pad ever and i i think iCloud probably won't either um but they're

01:46:33   not going to make new products with that right it would have been i watch but it's apple watch

01:46:37   apple apple is the default now but i don't think they're going to necessarily go back and erase

01:46:42   every other product that starts with i i did have a couple of friends a couple of weeks ago and one

01:46:47   of them one of my friends was referencing how he doesn't really know how to use his i watch and

01:46:53   neither does he really use his i watch and me and my other friend were like seriously is that is that

01:46:58   what you think it's called like how do you own one but you think it's called the i watch and that was

01:47:04   just like a very wild thing for me that like in his mind that was i watch like apple watch was i

01:47:10   watch that was what it was called and he would never have thought it to be anything else and i

01:47:17   could not get my head around that as like uh how is this latched on to you but never left but yeah

01:47:24   it is funny to me that iCloud is a part of apple one right like it's just like yeah it's just here

01:47:30   there's nothing we can do about it it's called iCloud if you would like to send in your feedback

01:47:37   follow-up or your questions for ask upgrade go to upgrade feedback.com and you can send that in

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01:47:49   you can categorize it thank you so much to everybody that sends in their questions every

01:47:54   week we appreciate you until next week's episode you can check out Jason's writing over at sixcolors.com

01:47:59   and here he's podcast at the incomparable.com and here on relay FM you can listen to my shows

01:48:05   here on relay FM you can check out my work cortexbrand.com as well too we're both on

01:48:10   mastodon you can find Jason on zeppelin.flights as @jsnell and you can find me on mike.social as

01:48:17   @imike you can also follow upgrade on relay FM.social as @upgrade thank you to our members who

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01:48:31   thank you for listening to this week's episode we'll be back next time until then say goodbye

01:48:37   Jason Snow goodbye Mike Hurley