00:00:08 ◼ ► From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 455. Today's show is brought to you by Electric,
00:00:20 ◼ ► Hi Mike. I'm going to give you a bit of like Mike small talk today. So, as we're recording in April,
00:00:31 ◼ ► yep, as we all know. Indeed, automation April. And it's, what I like about this time of year
00:00:38 ◼ ► is it's still light out when we start recording. And I like that, right? I don't like the clocks
00:00:45 ◼ ► changing personally, but I enjoy that Daylight Saving Time provides me with this extra bit of
00:00:51 ◼ ► light when I'm starting recording with you. Yeah, spent inside recording a podcast. I have
00:00:56 ◼ ► a window so I can feel that the room has more light in it, which is nice. That's good, that's
00:01:03 ◼ ► good. I feel that way when I'm recording my evening podcast too. It's nice. Other than when the sun is
00:01:08 ◼ ► blasting into my eyes and I have to lower the shades, but other than that. So like originally
00:01:12 ◼ ► they said that Daylight Savings Time was for farmers and they said it was for Halloween,
00:01:40 ◼ ► you just make a mark on the wall. Yep, that's another baseball game. I went to that one.
00:01:46 ◼ ► Now I'm aware of that, that like, you can, there are like a lot of notebooks I've seen in the past
00:01:52 ◼ ► for this where you can like keep score, but there is a very specific way of counting the in, ins,
00:01:59 ◼ ► and the outs or something. The in, ins, and the outs is in baseball. Do you count everyone's
00:02:08 ◼ ► Balls are rolled out. Everybody lines up on the baselines and they count the belly buttons.
00:02:24 ◼ ► outcome of every at bat. So it's like single, double, out, you know, ground out, fly out,
00:02:41 ◼ ► who keeps score, has their own scorekeeping style. So some people will like make a little X
00:02:46 ◼ ► or make a little mark about like, was this to the outfield? Was it to left field? Whatever.
00:02:50 ◼ ► Obviously the announcers do that because then they can say, "Oh, when was the last time out
00:02:54 ◼ ► that you flew out to left field?" He can say that because he's looking at his little score book and
00:03:05 ◼ ► you know, and the statistics are kept and all of these things happen. But Mark's question is,
00:03:10 ◼ ► do I do it? Do I, an adult human being, bring a ringed binder sort of collection of pieces of
00:03:21 ◼ ► paper and a pen to a baseball game so that I can sit while on a beautiful day while a baseball game
00:03:27 ◼ ► is going on in front of me and mark little things down on pen in a game that is being televised and
00:03:33 ◼ ► put into computers and does not actually need any record keeping of any kind? Yes, absolutely I do.
00:03:40 ◼ ► What I like about that is you said an adult human being as if a child would ever fathom to want to
00:03:46 ◼ ► do this. Oh well that's, I think that's not true but like I was just sort of implying that like
00:03:52 ◼ ► with somebody who has other things going on. The answer is yeah absolutely I do. I really enjoy it.
00:03:57 ◼ ► It creates a, what do I tell people? Keeps me focused a little bit, right? Like keeps me focused
00:04:03 ◼ ► on the game. Baseball, you know, you can get distracted. The pace is slow. Even now the pace
00:04:07 ◼ ► is faster it's still slow. I learned to do it. Boy we're gonna get into some things here. I didn't
00:04:15 ◼ ► play Dungeons and Dragons when I was in high school. I played dice baseball. We had a league.
00:04:20 ◼ ► We had little teams where it was like players were on cards and you'd roll dice to see if they
00:04:24 ◼ ► got hits and you had to keep score. Is this also known as dice ball? It is not. There's probably
00:04:30 ◼ ► other dice ball games. That's a board game. Okay. I played a very particular kind of dice baseball.
00:04:38 ◼ ► There are lots of different kinds. So anyway that was my high school. No I didn't have any dates.
00:04:43 ◼ ► But I did learn to do that and I just kind of find it pleasant. I find it pleasant to do it and it
00:04:50 ◼ ► becomes a souvenir. So I've got a book that's got like all the baseball games that I've been to.
00:04:55 ◼ ► Oh that's nice. I'm on my like third book now but yeah so it's like this is the world series and
00:04:59 ◼ ► this was that I've got like a spring training game from 2010 where it's the first time I saw
00:05:03 ◼ ► Buster Posey play and he would then come up to the big league team later that year and they'd
00:05:07 ◼ ► win the world series. I've got like memories in there of like did this with this friend and we
00:05:11 ◼ ► took Jamie. I took Jamie to a spring training game one time. It was just her and me and I've got that
00:05:16 ◼ ► one in there and I you know this weekend we went or last weekend we went to a game and I was able
00:05:21 ◼ ► to look back and say what was the last game we saw here? I was like oh yeah it was it was actually
00:05:31 ◼ ► because she lives in Phoenix and we were sitting right behind the Diamondbacks dugout and I texted
00:05:36 ◼ ► her and I said watch the game you will see us and she's like oh I see you and that was the last game
00:05:42 ◼ ► we had been to. So yeah anyway I do I do I don't like we went to Minnesota last summer to visit
00:05:50 ◼ ► friends and I did not bring the score book there. I did end up for that one keeping score on a little
00:05:55 ◼ ► Minnesota Twins you know scorecard thing that you could get and that was fine but it doesn't go in
00:06:00 ◼ ► the book now which is too bad and so sometimes it's not like an inviolate like 100% of the time
00:06:06 ◼ ► I do it but if I can make the effort to do it I absolutely do. I understand it like I've been to
00:06:13 ◼ ► a Major League Baseball game it's a slow day right like it's faster now. They've cut half an hour out
00:06:19 ◼ ► of it but yeah. But there's a lot of like slow so like having something that keeps you extra engaged
00:06:28 ◼ ► like yeah what what happened to that guy right and there's the legendary story about a announcer I
00:06:33 ◼ ► believe it's Phil Rizzuto the announcer for the Yankees who yeah everybody's got their little
00:06:38 ◼ ► quirks he somebody was looking at his scorecard one day and they're like Phil what is what does
00:06:42 ◼ ► WW mean and he says oh wasn't watching. He got out somehow now if I'm missing out I can go on the MLB
00:06:53 ◼ ► app and like find out what happened or actually now they put it on the scoreboard they literally
00:06:57 ◼ ► put up there this guy struck out you just missed it because you were talking to somebody or whatever
00:07:01 ◼ ► wonderful so yeah it's true it's true. If you would like to send in a question to help us open
00:07:07 ◼ ► an episode of Upgrade just go to upgradefeedback.com and submit a Snell Talk question for us thank you
00:07:12 ◼ ► to Mark who did that. We have some follow-up so we were talking about the sometimes poorly
00:07:19 ◼ ► functioning HomeKit integration in Control Center when we were talking last time about what we'd
00:07:23 ◼ ► like to see change in Control Center. Ben wrote in to suggest that the home button so there's like
00:07:29 ◼ ► not only is there HomeKit controls in Control Center there is also a button that you can press
00:07:37 ◼ ► yeah that basically replicates the home app in Control Center and it gives you a view of
00:07:43 ◼ ► everything that would be otherwise be in the home app just right there in Control Center. I always
00:07:49 ◼ ► forget about this and I just find it incredibly weird that it exists in the first place to be
00:07:55 ◼ ► honest strange. Yeah I don't like it because I mean yes you can get to it but the point of the top
00:08:02 ◼ ► level is that I can have the things that matter to me and just swipe down and go boop and control
00:08:07 ◼ ► them with a home at the home rectangle inside Control Center you tap on it and it brings up
00:08:14 ◼ ► the whole home app basically you know scrolling list and then you're like scrolling up and down
00:08:18 ◼ ► so I've already tapped now I'm just going to scrolling for the thing and then I tap on that
00:08:22 ◼ ► and then I have to go back in order to get out and like it's just that's what I don't like about it is
00:08:28 ◼ ► it's not I appreciate I guess that they went to the trouble of it being there but what I really
00:08:33 ◼ ► want is to select some items in my home and say put this in Control Center which it doesn't let
00:08:38 ◼ ► you do. Yeah and it still doesn't solve my biggest issue where it still doesn't know where I am half
00:08:45 ◼ ► the time like you know just get all of the boxes for the studio when I'm at home rather than just
00:08:49 ◼ ► some of them. So you can turn lights on and off at your studio while you're not there that's great I
00:08:55 ◼ ► mean some some people do want that some people do want to control things remotely but yeah you
00:08:59 ◼ ► should also having the ability to have it be like location based and yes a lot of work to be done
00:09:04 ◼ ► here but it is true if you if you want you can just tap on that home rectangle and it will bring
00:09:10 ◼ ► up essentially your home app inside Control Center. I'm gonna consider this as follow-up because we've
00:09:16 ◼ ► mentioned the company's name in the past. Apple has partnered with French TV provider Canal Plus
00:09:22 ◼ ► to offer Apple TV Plus to its subscribers for no additional fee so if you're a Canal Plus subscriber
00:09:28 ◼ ► you will just get Apple TV Plus. Yes. Is it the beginning of bundling? I don't know it will they
00:09:36 ◼ ► call it Apple TV Plus? Maybe they do I don't know wait what is French is it like pomme television plus?
00:09:45 ◼ ► Maybe it could be so it's an interesting idea it's unclear whether this is I mean they use
00:09:53 ◼ ► Canal Plus for their cable company like they use Apple TV as their box right like that's a really
00:10:01 ◼ ► tight it's a really tight relationship there. They're very embedded. Yeah that's a really tight relationship and
00:10:07 ◼ ► then apparently there's a cross-licensing deal for some content too where there's going to be
00:10:15 ◼ ► stations too I read somewhere so there's there's a bunch going on there. I don't know if this is just
00:10:20 ◼ ► this feels like it might just be a one-off because this happens to be a region where they've got a
00:10:24 ◼ ► particularly tight relationship. Yeah but it's it's it's worth watching because right that's another
00:10:30 ◼ ► way for Apple TV Plus to get out there. I mean Apple TV Plus already does that with what is it
00:10:33 ◼ ► T-Mobile has a deal where you get free Apple TV Plus with your subscription and like there are some
00:10:39 ◼ ► things like that that are out there already so I think you know Apple will do what it needs to do
00:10:44 ◼ ► to market their service but this is a case this may be the strongest case because they have such
00:10:50 ◼ ► a tight relationship with Canal Plus. Because you know there are things where I think the I believe
00:10:55 ◼ ► I'm just speaking of something I believe I'm not 100% sure about this that the French government
00:11:01 ◼ ► requires an amount of programming to be in French and to be produced in France like that it's a part
00:11:08 ◼ ► of the perpetration and continuation of the language and so like I know that Apple I believe
00:11:14 ◼ ► had to work to create French language content if they wanted to be in the region maybe Canal Plus
00:11:21 ◼ ► helped with that you know or Canal helped with that because there's also they're also a television
00:11:25 ◼ ► production company right right Studio Canal I think Studio Canal and so you know maybe this is
00:11:31 ◼ ► all part of just like a very good relationship they have with that company but I do you know I
00:11:37 ◼ ► know you can get it like we have EE here which is a cell provider and they believe offer they
00:11:44 ◼ ► that you can get Apple One with them as part of your bundle but I the thing that I'm interested
00:11:51 ◼ ► in specifically is could we see other streaming services other cable companies that kind of thing
00:12:01 ◼ ► just offer TV plus like any other channel might be in a bundle and I just find that as an interesting
00:12:07 ◼ ► proposition it could be good for Apple I think to just be able to give this content to more people
00:12:23 ◼ ► follow-up to get to but I want to take a moment to recognize Katie Cotton Katie was Apple's head
00:12:30 ◼ ► of PR during the jobs era she had a 20-year stint with Apple she very recently unfortunately passed
00:12:37 ◼ ► away it's terribly sad I want to read very quickly a statement that Apple gave to Bloomberg to say
00:12:45 ◼ ► we're deeply saddened by Katie's passing she was an extraordinary person and she made countless
00:12:49 ◼ ► contributions over the course of her two-decade career at Apple our thoughts are with her loved
00:12:53 ◼ ► ones and everyone who had the opportunity to work with her and I'm assuming that you knew Katie so I
00:12:59 ◼ ► thought you might say a few things honestly most of the I feel like my when I was not the editor-in-chief
00:13:09 ◼ ► I think my boss Rick LePage worked with her quite a bit and and just to give you an idea of what
00:13:14 ◼ ► level Katie was on our CEO Colin Crawford talked to her a lot yeah like I always got the you know
00:13:22 ◼ ► we would always hear Colin being like oh Katie Katie said this and Katie said that and Katie's
00:13:26 ◼ ► complaining about you essentially the sorts of things we would get from Colin so she was at a
00:13:32 ◼ ► high level I dealt mostly with the head of product PR who was Natalie Lingo so but I did I talked to
00:13:41 ◼ ► Katie a bunch of times saw her she I was always always super intimidated by her she was partially
00:13:49 ◼ ► because Colin would be like Katie Katie complained about a thing you did I'm like oh boy but
00:13:56 ◼ ► she the one thing I always wondered about is whether she was the perfect fit for Steve Jobs
00:14:01 ◼ ► or whether she read what Steve Jobs wanted and knew how to knew how to provide it for him but
00:14:06 ◼ ► either way they were I would say almost like inseparable in terms of how marketing and public
00:14:12 ◼ ► relations was handled and how and how Steve wanted it to be handled like that that seemed they were
00:14:19 ◼ ► just in perfect alignment and the things people complained about in that era about Apple PR
00:14:24 ◼ ► and the things that people maybe appreciated about them I will say having dealt with Apple PR before
00:14:28 ◼ ► Katie was put in charge and before Steve came back they were so erratic and confusing and and she got
00:14:36 ◼ ► them I mean like they they got it together a lot more after she came and brought in you know you
00:14:45 ◼ ► know brought in presumably people that she liked and trusted and built a team there but yeah she
00:14:51 ◼ ► was I always was intimidated by her but she executed perfectly and worked perfectly with Steve
00:14:58 ◼ ► and the when she left and I know we've talked about that way back in early episodes of Upgrade when
00:15:04 ◼ ► she left I think it was a great example of how different times call for different strategies that
00:15:12 ◼ ► I think Katie was going to play it the way Katie played it and then when she left Apple
00:15:18 ◼ ► the new regime and she left sort of after Tim Cook you know came on board but as CEO but not a lot
00:15:26 ◼ ► longer than that the the PR changed right their strategy changed they they started doing some new
00:15:31 ◼ ► and innovative things and and had different approaches to access and different approaches
00:15:36 ◼ ► to events and different approach approaches to how press got briefed and like all sorts of stuff like
00:15:41 ◼ ► that and I thought what I took away from that was that's naturally what happens when you've got
00:15:47 ◼ ► somebody in charge for 20 years right is that they they set up a machine and then it really does take
00:15:57 ◼ ► everybody knew who she was she was great at her job and she was like like I said before
00:16:03 ◼ ► I don't know the details of it but in the end the perfect fit for how Steve Jobs wanted to approach
00:16:09 ◼ ► dealing with the press perfect fit they were they were perfect partners yeah like I kind of think
00:16:15 ◼ ► of the like a legacy that she has left like it's not just Apple but so many companies especially
00:16:20 ◼ ► in tech like the way that they deal with secrecy and the way that they would a lot of companies
00:16:26 ◼ ► would like to have an approach with how they deal with media and press in general comes from what
00:16:31 ◼ ► she would have established at that time right if you write the story of the tech industry in terms
00:16:35 ◼ ► of PR and marketing in the in in the media not like necessarily market product marketing like
00:16:42 ◼ ► in the sense of maybe pricing and stuff like that that like how how how products get rolled out and
00:16:47 ◼ ► marketed and all that I think you could point at Steve Jobs for sure but also Katie Cotton and Phil
00:16:54 ◼ ► Schiller and say that that trio was super influential because they were the ones behind
00:17:01 ◼ ► how Apple chose to roll out products and from all aspects and honestly everybody in the tech
00:17:12 ◼ ► industry took notes and and tried to do what they do like there's just no doubt about it that the
00:17:18 ◼ ► if you don't know what tech industry was like before Apple style PR and marketing if I took
00:17:25 ◼ ► you in a time machine back to like 1995 and showed you what the tech industry did for marketing you
00:17:30 ◼ ► would be or even 2000 honestly you would be aghast you'd be like what uh because now Samsung does
00:17:39 ◼ ► events and Microsoft does events and like the way all of their approach to this stuff is is very
00:17:44 ◼ ► Apple-like in a way that it wasn't before and that that goes to like I said Steve for sure but also
00:17:50 ◼ ► Phil and Katie. Rest in peace Katie Cotton. So Apple announced something today Apple cash
00:17:58 ◼ ► becoming Apple savings this is something that you mentioned before we started recording that I hadn't
00:18:03 ◼ ► seen so I would like you to explain this to me. Yeah it's it's for people who've got the Apple
00:18:08 ◼ ► card okay you you get Apple cash back because you can send Apple cash anyway but if you get the
00:18:14 ◼ ► Apple card you get Apple cash back and and so you probably have a lot of Apple cash and generally
00:18:22 ◼ ► what you do is you either use it to buy something like I bought burritos with my Apple cash
00:18:26 ◼ ► the other day great because it was like oh you need to buy burritos I have Apple cash I'm like
00:18:32 ◼ ► great do it let's just make that happen but you can also transfer back to your bank right so what
00:18:39 ◼ ► this does is it creates essentially a bank account at Goldman Sachs that you can put your Apple cash
00:18:45 ◼ ► in and it earns 4.15 percent interest which is actually a very good interest rate right now
00:18:52 ◼ ► and no fees no minimum deposits no minimum balance requirements right it's like just kind of a magic
00:19:01 ◼ ► bank account that is essentially if you're an Apple card subscriber member whatever you you now
00:19:09 ◼ ► have access to this thing for your for your Apple cash and once you set it up all future daily cash
00:19:17 ◼ ► from the card is automatically deposited into the account so the idea there and you can deposit
00:19:26 ◼ ► things from your you can transfer things in from your bank account or right or transfer things in
00:19:30 ◼ ► from Apple cash that you got from some other from somebody paying you you can transfer all that in
00:19:34 ◼ ► there so what I find interesting is that it's like dipping a toe in the water a little bit
00:19:38 ◼ ► I don't know what the end game is here but I think it's interesting in that they're touting this very
00:19:43 ◼ ► high interest rate and that feels to me like they're really they really want you to leave
00:19:47 ◼ ► your money in their hands right not transfer it to another bank and so they're at least starting with
00:19:54 ◼ ► the daily cash from Apple card users you sign up for this and it's it's not bad right like why
00:20:00 ◼ ► why let your 140 dollars or whatever that's sitting in your Apple cash account why let it sit
00:20:08 ◼ ► there when you could put it in this thing that is I think functionally equivalent in terms of the
00:20:13 ◼ ► interface and everything and it gets interest I don't even really understand how this is different
00:20:19 ◼ ► to the user realistically than what it was doing before I think that's the plan I think the plan is
00:20:25 ◼ ► this should feel like because because what was Apple cash Apple cash is like a PayPal balance
00:20:32 ◼ ► yeah right where it's just kind of in a limbo state where they've got your money they've got
00:20:38 ◼ ► your money in the bank somewhere earning money for them and this is Apple sort of like trying to
00:20:43 ◼ ► build a new interface where it still looks like a little box that is your cash but what it really is
00:20:52 ◼ ► is a bank account that you access just like you would access Apple pay or cash and it just sits
00:20:57 ◼ ► there earning interest and and you know I think that there's a long game here and they want to get
00:21:03 ◼ ► people used to this idea of keeping a big balance in their Apple account and using it to pay for
00:21:09 ◼ ► things but yeah you could also theoretically transfer a lot of money in here and say Apple
00:21:13 ◼ ► is my bank account if you wanted to it you could do that I don't think I would suggest that but
00:21:19 ◼ ► it's an interesting idea it's wild to me too for a 4.15 percent interest rate with no minimum
00:21:30 ◼ ► interesting yeah I mean yeah why wouldn't you it's kind of to me feels like this is maybe the way
00:21:38 ◼ ► they wanted it to be initially but it was couldn't get it set up that way or something right because
00:21:42 ◼ ► it's just like it is functionally the same right yeah it sounds like it at least for I think you
00:21:49 ◼ ► have like I said I think it's a separate account from your general cash wallet thing but then
00:21:57 ◼ ► they're going to plow the cash back from and maybe there's a benefit to them and golden sacks there
00:22:03 ◼ ► too that rather than that cash back moving into the the limbo zone it's going to stay essentially
00:22:10 ◼ ► at Goldman Sachs and just be part of this other account you have access to yeah I also we a lot of
00:22:17 ◼ ► talk Mark Erman's reported about it a lot about Apple wanting to build its own financial services
00:22:23 ◼ ► like the the Apple pay later this is not that right this is Goldman Sachs this is this is
00:22:29 ◼ ► essentially an extension of the Apple card for now yeah for now still want to see it come well
00:22:37 ◼ ► you know let's break outside of America Apple you have the ability to do it I believe in you
00:22:41 ◼ ► you know it's only been 75 years at this point like whenever you're ready and Quad Box Quad Box
00:22:49 ◼ ► Quad Box Quad Box what is the Quad Box Multi View Sports Features are coming to Apple TV Plus
00:22:57 ◼ ► Multi View it's the Quad Box Quad Box aka Multi View basically in Ben Mayo reported this in 95
00:23:06 ◼ ► Mac basically in the tv os 16.5 beta Apple has added Multi View which is a way it's in the tv app
00:23:14 ◼ ► and it's basically you know picture in picture it's sort of like you get the one picture and
00:23:19 ◼ ► then you've got the little tiny postage stamp version that's in the corner and you can move
00:23:22 ◼ ► it around this is not that this is like a level up from that and it allows you to put up to four items
00:23:28 ◼ ► four videos live on your screen at once so yeah and you're thinking to yourself why would you want
00:23:35 ◼ ► to do that the answer is simple multitasking four classic movies all up together you watch them all
00:23:40 ◼ ► at the same time you're more cultured four times as cultured no it's for sports that's the number
00:23:45 ◼ ► one thing it's and so that the Apple built it in and it's really been Mayo tried it out this way
00:23:49 ◼ ► it's for MLS at this point Apple wants to do more sports stuff but it's for MLS especially so you
00:23:55 ◼ ► can put four MLS matches that are running live and you put them in four boxes in the corner of your
00:24:00 ◼ ► screen I'll also mention that if you've got a 4k tv each one of those boxes is basically a 1080p
00:24:04 ◼ ► tv just small it's pretty cool so I use this all the time on Fubo which is my tv provider
00:24:18 ◼ ► college football is a great example of this I can put four college football games up or yesterday
00:24:22 ◼ ► I had a couple baseball games up and it's great youtube tv is working on this because they're
00:24:30 ◼ ► going to have NFL Sunday ticket and and one of the things you're going to want to do with Sunday
00:24:34 ◼ ► ticket is put four football games up at once the problem with all of this is that this is a tv app
00:24:42 ◼ ► feature and it needs to be a core feature of tv os because what you can't do is put up videos in
00:24:50 ◼ ► those boxes from different apps just in the one app and what they and what they really need because
00:24:58 ◼ ► sports rights are so fractured what they really need to do I should be able to put a Friday night
00:25:05 ◼ ► baseball game up from from the tv app a different baseball game up from the MLB app a basketball
00:25:15 ◼ ► game up from ESPN plus and a different basketball game up from Fubo I should be able to have four
00:25:24 ◼ ► apps streaming video into a quad box on my tv on my apple tv that is not yet possible with the
00:25:31 ◼ ► operating system but I feel like they have to go there because quad box is great for sports but
00:25:36 ◼ ► if if every quad box is its own silo you'll never get to four items or rarely get to four items
00:25:44 ◼ ► because you are stuck with this these silos everybody you know there's this board is over
00:25:53 ◼ ► there and this board is over there and this the game is over there and this other game is over
00:25:56 ◼ ► here so I feel like that's that's on my wish list now for the next version of tv os is multi-view
00:26:03 ◼ ► quad box for all and there need to be an API for it and all that but like every time I use their
00:26:09 ◼ ► picture-in-picture thing I hate it it's terrible it's even bad like I use it in the MLB app
00:26:13 ◼ ► MLB app on the web you can see four games at once in the MLB app on apple tv they just use
00:26:20 ◼ ► apple's picture-in-picture API and it's awful because it covers part of the screen and you
00:26:25 ◼ ► have one big one on one small one and then you're doing all these kind of fiddly gestures in order
00:26:29 ◼ ► to move between them it's it's terrible so realistically two APIs should be made available
00:26:35 ◼ ► here one being let your content be watched outside but let's be realistic right about what some
00:26:42 ◼ ► providers will allow the second is we're going to give you an easy way to show four streams at once
00:26:47 ◼ ► inside of your own app both would be true right they yes like this is this looks very suspiciously
00:26:52 ◼ ► actually in the app in the tv app it it's added into the player interface it looks very suspiciously
00:26:57 ◼ ► like this may be available as an API for other apps I don't know that for sure but I wouldn't
00:27:03 ◼ ► put it past so like and that would be great for major league baseball where I often do have two
00:27:07 ◼ ► three four games going at once in the MLB tv app that would be great but so that's that's like
00:27:14 ◼ ► request number one is make this an API so other so that there's a standard way to do quad box
00:27:20 ◼ ► on all tv apps that would be step one step two is make it so that you can offer your video to be in
00:27:26 ◼ ► a quad box in any app and mix and match what the apps are doing so that you can have three different
00:27:33 ◼ ► apps supplying video to a quad box four different apps that would be perfect but we're not there yet
00:27:40 ◼ ► so anyway it's a it's step one but of course I want more so thank you apple for putting this
00:27:45 ◼ ► new feature in the first beta and all it does is make me say great next but it's a good thing to
00:27:53 ◼ ► see and if you've never tried it or if you're not a sports fan trust me it's great I mean some I
00:27:58 ◼ ► don't use the quad box as much as I use a side by side two but it's nice to have side by side two or
00:28:04 ◼ ► three I had that at one point where I had a basketball game and two baseball games going
00:28:07 ◼ ► last night and the quad box when you're interested in four different things and kind of flipping
00:28:14 ◼ ► around between them it's really nice to just because I should say the way this works is it
00:28:18 ◼ ► doesn't just stay at four you can click with the with the remote and zoom into any game so you can
00:28:24 ◼ ► swipe around and get the audio from any of the four boxes and then if you click it zooms into
00:28:30 ◼ ► that game and then you hit the back button and it zooms back out into the quad box it's really nice
00:28:35 ◼ ► this episode is brought to you by sofa when you hear about a great new tv show or a book
00:28:44 ◼ ► or a podcast or an album or whatever what do you do do you scribble it down on your notebook maybe
00:28:50 ◼ ► you put in your to-do app maybe put it in reminders in any case you're likely going to forget about it
00:28:56 ◼ ► and instead feel stuck not knowing what to watch listen or play next when that time comes next time
00:29:02 ◼ ► you hear a great recommendation for something throw it in sofa with the sofa app you can create
00:29:07 ◼ ► lists of almost anything podcasts apps books board games movies tv shows albums video games
00:29:14 ◼ ► all this stuff because it also has it's not you're not just writing it in there no just like oh play
00:29:20 ◼ ► spider-man you search through databases so you can add these games or movies or whatever to these
00:29:27 ◼ ► lists and all of the information the metadata is all in there then you can use these lists to
00:29:32 ◼ ► decide your next piece of content to read watch or play sofa's design is inspired by some of the best
00:29:39 ◼ ► productivity apps but focused on helping you to be more intentional with your downtime you really
00:29:44 ◼ ► don't want to keep track of this stuff in your regular to-do manager because this is your downtime
00:29:48 ◼ ► you're gonna get everything mixed together who wants reminders of their work tasks when they're
00:29:52 ◼ ► trying to unwind on the weekend use sofa and you'll get a dedicated place for organizing your
00:29:58 ◼ ► downtime with sofa you can create unlimited lists sync your data with iCloud track your activity
00:30:03 ◼ ► and more completely free but if you're looking for more power you can upgrade to super sofa to
00:30:10 ◼ ► customize lists with cover images and descriptions add sticky notes to items so it's like give you a
00:30:15 ◼ ► little reminder of something personalize the look and feel of over 100 different themes and a whole
00:30:21 ◼ ► lot more i love how many things there are in this application i was checking it out they gave us a
00:30:27 ◼ ► code to try out the app me and jason there are so many themes the design just the basic design
00:30:32 ◼ ► simple and clean you know the fact that they want you know sofa say that they're inspired by
00:30:37 ◼ ► productivity apps i can see that and i think that's fantastic has tons of great little touches
00:30:42 ◼ ► but the amount of incredible themes there are i've never seen so many themes in an app it's amazing
00:30:47 ◼ ► it's also super easy to build lists really simple to search and get basic information about all of
00:30:52 ◼ ► the things that you're looking to i'm using it for video games mostly because that's my biggest thing
00:30:57 ◼ ► where someone tells me a game to play or hear a game play but i'm already playing something
00:31:02 ◼ ► right now and it might be days or weeks before i'm ready to start a new video game and then when
00:31:07 ◼ ► i'm done i'm always kind of lost and i don't know what to play and that game that i heard about on
00:31:11 ◼ ► a podcast three months ago has left my brain forever so i don't anymore now i put it in sofa
00:31:17 ◼ ► sofa is available for iphone ipad and apple silicon max upgrade listeners can get a special
00:31:23 ◼ ► one week free trial by heading over to sofa hq.com upgrade that is sofa hq.com upgrade and you'll get
00:31:33 ◼ ► a one week free trial of super sofa thank you and more one week laser that was very good super sofa
00:31:40 ◼ ► i like saying i like that too they didn't ask me to do that i just thought that that would be
00:31:44 ◼ ► good to collect super so far it sounds i like it and you get more out of your downtime there's also
00:31:48 ◼ ► a link in the show notes our thanks to sofa for their support of this show and relay fm
00:32:00 ◼ ► minchi quo is now reporting that the plan for solid state capacitive buttons on the iphone 15
00:32:06 ◼ ► pro has been scrapped at the final hurdle available this is for quote unresolved technical
00:32:14 ◼ ► issues before mass production and this is a quote from mac rumors quo said there is still time for
00:32:20 ◼ ► apple to modify the iphone 15 pros design given that the device remains in the evt development
00:32:25 ◼ ► stage he believes quo believes that the change will have a limited impact on the mass production
00:32:30 ◼ ► schedule and shipments for the pro models i got some theories i would love to hear him i was
00:32:35 ◼ ► listening to you guys talk about this on connected and you know i think you made a very fair point
00:32:39 ◼ ► which is we hear all these stories about how the iphone can't be changed it's like pre-planned a
00:32:44 ◼ ► year and a half in advance and you can't change anything it's a slow it's a big ship turns slowly
00:32:49 ◼ ► so here are my theories one is that i mean first off evt there is a there they run test hardware
00:33:00 ◼ ► to find problems right like they they definitely do that yeah and and so what i would say is what
00:33:05 ◼ ► happens if there's a problem and there's two paths you can go down one is oh fix the problem
00:33:12 ◼ ► and the other is oh no we can't fix the problem there's not enough time to fix the problem
00:33:18 ◼ ► at which point you've got to have a fallback right which i imagine is revert right it's like either
00:33:24 ◼ ► wave off the whole product or in the case of an iphone and this particular thing let's just go
00:33:28 ◼ ► back to the old buttons because the new buttons aren't working the assumption is right that you've
00:33:33 ◼ ► got to make that any logical company would make in this situation if you are going to change
00:33:44 ◼ ► when you're going into like product development cycle you are including two designs right that
00:33:52 ◼ ► you have the design that has the new thing and then the design that has the new elements you
00:33:58 ◼ ► know you can do like materials colors that kind of stuff but without this new feature that you've not
00:34:03 ◼ ► done before right yeah they must in some cases and in some cases where it doesn't require particular
00:34:08 ◼ ► hardware changes they probably have like you know we've all seen those stories that are we took it
00:34:12 ◼ ► apart and there's an open pin that could be something but isn't there's just an empty space
00:34:19 ◼ ► in here yeah there was something that they were going to put there and they're like no at some
00:34:23 ◼ ► stage they're like no we're gonna just pop that out and not not make it and so so that's that's
00:34:29 ◼ ► my only question is like what it is right because there's two there's two options here i was talking
00:34:34 ◼ ► about like two paths and it's like did the is is it that it wasn't reliable in some way like maybe
00:34:41 ◼ ► the software was complicated or they and they weren't happy with how it was behaving or was
00:34:47 ◼ ► it a production issue where it up to this point everything worked and they thought this is going
00:34:52 ◼ ► to work and then they put it through the evt stage which is again not mass production but it is a
00:34:58 ◼ ► production stage of like when we make this product what's it going to be like and i my spider sense
00:35:05 ◼ ► tells me i'm not actually spider-man by the way and if i were i wouldn't tell you what i just
00:35:10 ◼ ► thought you took pictures of spider-man so yeah i just write a blog about spider-man i do a podcast
00:35:29 ◼ ► we're talking anyway my my spider sense tells what what are we even talking about here my spider
00:35:36 ◼ ► sense tells me that it might be that second one which is that they put this into production
00:35:39 ◼ ► and the production units came off for evt and they're like oh no this doesn't work right you
00:35:45 ◼ ► know one out of every eight is failing or right and and again you know if your apple and the iphone
00:35:52 ◼ ► has to ship you look at that and you're like pull it out of there right that's what you have to do
00:35:57 ◼ ► because you gotta ship it and there isn't i know it seems like a lot of time between now and
00:36:01 ◼ ► september but there is very little time in terms of ramping up production getting the factory ready
00:36:05 ◼ ► and then starting to make these things because they make a bunch of them in advance you gotta have
00:36:09 ◼ ► it locked down very soon so that's my guess is they put it into evt and whether it was a little
00:36:20 ◼ ► production revealed a problem that they couldn't address um that that's my guess about what's going
00:36:26 ◼ ► on here i like to think that you know someone told someone finally found out about the idea that you
00:36:32 ◼ ► needed to go in and customize precious sensitivity levels to get a per case look and they were like
00:36:38 ◼ ► no let's let's let's send that one back to the drawing board we built a uh a new made for iphone
00:36:44 ◼ ► spec where every case manufacturer will embed an nfc chip in their case that indicates how much
00:36:51 ◼ ► pressure they require for their buttons to wave it off everybody we're gonna go back nope not gonna
00:36:57 ◼ ► do it nope forget about it apparently this one's going to the back of the queue may find its way
00:37:02 ◼ ► into the iphone 16 sure why not that's one more iphone mac rumors is reporting on some potential
00:37:09 ◼ ► ios 17 features that could be announced at wwdc there are quite a few things in this list some
00:37:14 ◼ ► stuff we've seen before it comes from uh a leaker that they consider to be uh verifiable from the
00:37:20 ◼ ► mac rumors forums and they you know it's one of these people that have been correct a bunch of
00:37:25 ◼ ► times in the past but i just want to touch on a couple of these heavily improved search being one
00:37:30 ◼ ► of them i don't really know what that means there isn't much more information than that but the thing
00:37:34 ◼ ► that i found interesting about this is i think it would be difficult for apple to stand on be on a
00:37:41 ◼ ► stage be in a presentation at the moment and say with a straight face anything to do with serie
00:37:45 ◼ ► intelligence in the age of ai like i think that's going to be a hard sell like whatever that might
00:37:51 ◼ ► be and maybe they just call it something else but back in the old back in days your anything like
00:37:56 ◼ ► this was considered part of serie intelligence right that you would search in the search thing
00:38:01 ◼ ► like powered by series intelligence like that's not going to fly now i feel like unless they're
00:38:06 ◼ ► going to tell us they're using a large language model for their search now which i don't think
00:38:10 ◼ ► is the time right well i think i think they might but but i think this is so so um i don't agree
00:38:17 ◼ ► with the idea that serie as a brand is so burned that it if apple goes to a new model it needs to be
00:38:24 ◼ ► uh liquidated however serie intelligence i always thought was a little bit of a stretch like they're
00:38:30 ◼ ► trying to sub brand serie in some ways and it it never i don't know it was always very amorphous
00:38:37 ◼ ► and it never really worked that well sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't um but in terms of the
00:38:42 ◼ ► broader picture here like yeah heavily improved search what does that mean does it mean that they
00:38:48 ◼ ► are using you know machine learning based assistant tech and and it look it doesn't have to be large
00:38:55 ◼ ► language models right they don't apple there's a lot of conversation about like well apple's
00:38:59 ◼ ► going to have to get on the large language model train the chat gbt train here but like they might
00:39:04 ◼ ► have a different approach that they feel works better for what is happening on their devices
00:39:09 ◼ ► what if there were different models that were queried by like a top level model uh different
00:39:15 ◼ ► models and data sources and return back information like i i definitely want serie to have a
00:39:20 ◼ ► conversational aspect where i can kind of like refine what we're talking about until i get the
00:39:24 ◼ ► answer i want large language models are good at that but like i'm open to the idea that apple does
00:39:30 ◼ ► it a little bit differently but yeah i'm a little worried i i think the point you're making here is
00:39:43 ◼ ► so can it get over the bar now that it's been raised or are we going to look at it and be like
00:39:48 ◼ ► no it's like more of the old thing search is better right and like that's that and i think
00:39:54 ◼ ► that's fine it's just like more for me of like the idea where these things used to be said they
00:39:58 ◼ ► were powered by serie in some way right i just i i would struggle now i honestly i would be surprised
00:40:04 ◼ ► if apple talk about serie for the next couple of years because i i would expect that they are
00:40:09 ◼ ► internally talking about like okay how do we how do we develop our own on-device models right unless
00:40:18 ◼ ► they have it unless they unless they have it i expect they have it i don't think it's now though
00:40:22 ◼ ► like but i expect they're working on it but who knows i would honestly i would love to see it
00:40:27 ◼ ► right just because i think it would be i would be really interested to see what that means to apple
00:40:34 ◼ ► like how does it run and work you know i wouldn't put it past them um it would probably be something
00:40:41 ◼ ► like opt into our you know super serie beta right uh or something like that i i think they will do
00:40:51 ◼ ► that at some point the question is just yeah when is it this year is it next year is the year after
00:40:55 ◼ ► that um but they may they may also take it in a different direction right like because i i strongly
00:41:02 ◼ ► believe that what they don't want is hallucinations right that they view serie as a as a tool that's
00:41:08 ◼ ► grounded in reality and that uh they they can't and i would say that this is the problem this is
00:41:14 ◼ ► the problem with search engines with apple implementing these things it's like it's fun
00:41:20 ◼ ► to be in a playground and look at a large language model and watch it like hallucinate things that
00:41:26 ◼ ► aren't real but if you're an information tool you can't do that it has to be based on reality
00:41:33 ◼ ► and if you can't if if there's an approach that makes it a little more constrained and a little
00:41:38 ◼ ► less fun but actually accurate that's the approach they need to take and that may be a lot harder to
00:41:44 ◼ ► do than just opening up chat gpt4 and saying good luck and then like i i was experimenting with gpt4
00:41:51 ◼ ► the other day uh we did an incomparable game show over the weekend and i thought what if i asked
00:41:56 ◼ ► these questions to chat gpt4 what would it answer and one of them was name four beatles songs and a
00:42:03 ◼ ► beetle and it it correctly listed three beetle songs and a beetle the fourth song was a wings
00:42:12 ◼ ► song okay and i i looked at it and i thought well this is actually funny if this was a contestant on
00:42:17 ◼ ► the show they got the answer wrong but if i'm google being if i'm apple and siri like no you
00:42:26 ◼ ► can't get that wrong you can't get answers to my questions wrong and that is i think the thing that
00:42:34 ◼ ► is the biggest gate to companies like apple really embracing this stuff is how do you do accuracy
00:42:41 ◼ ► detection you know because this this tool may demo really well but if it's not giving you proper
00:42:47 ◼ ► information it's useless essentially so it's it's boy i'm not sure there's anything more interesting
00:43:00 ◼ ► than what they've been doing behind the scenes with ai and machine learning models and because
00:43:08 ◼ ► of their secrecy we don't really know are they kind of on pace but keeping it secret and it's
00:43:16 ◼ ► not ready yet or are they way behind are they somewhere in between like we don't know we just
00:43:22 ◼ ► we just don't know but uh it feels really like they've gotta catch up or they're gonna be lost
00:43:28 ◼ ► yeah i wonder how much they can like this is like one of those things where if they're not gonna
00:43:34 ◼ ► talk to the internet and if they're not gonna you know as it it'd be complicated this is why
00:43:39 ◼ ► i'm interested in whatever apple's eventual thing will be like what will their stance be and maybe
00:43:45 ◼ ► they won't keep it on device right because siri wasn't on device for a really long time
00:43:51 ◼ ► i think they won't i think there'll be elements on device and your data will be on your device
00:43:55 ◼ ► that they'll use but that what they'll do my my guess is they'll do like plugins essentially
00:44:00 ◼ ► to trusted data sources whether they're run by apple or elsewhere and they're going to have some
00:44:06 ◼ ► sort of a privacy system where like each request is anonymized so that you know it goes to the
00:44:12 ◼ ► server at apple who knows who you are but then that server passes the information to a server
00:44:17 ◼ ► who doesn't know who it is gets the result back and then passes it back to you so you're you know
00:44:22 ◼ ► you're essentially anonymous um that's the kind of thing i would imagine that they would do is is that
00:44:30 ◼ ► using because so much of this is the importance is using good internet data sources for this
00:44:35 ◼ ► information like that example of gpt getting hooked up to wolfram alpha and suddenly being
00:44:41 ◼ ► able to do math which it couldn't do that's a good example of like you know you build you build out a
00:44:48 ◼ ► knowledge engine that includes the ability to hold a conversation with a human but you try to make it
00:44:52 ◼ ► more of that intelligent assistant thing where it's like it knows where to look and how to find
00:44:57 ◼ ► the right answer instead of it being it will make up an answer if it can't find it which is sort of
00:45:03 ◼ ► where we are with these chat bots a couple days ago i was um building a lego set that i've been
00:45:10 ◼ ► i've had for a couple of years and i finally got around to starting on it it's the original
00:45:14 ◼ ► mandalorian ship set i've forgotten its name now and i was like you know i was just sitting there
00:45:20 ◼ ► just building it and it was silent so i was like oh i thought to myself why don't i put on the
00:45:24 ◼ ► mandalorian soundtrack that sounds like fun so i asked my home pod played the mandalorian soundtrack
00:45:30 ◼ ► and it said playing mandalorian soundtrack season three that's not what i want so i was like asked
00:45:37 ◼ ► it again played a mandalorian soundtrack season one playing the mandalorian soundtrack season two
00:45:43 ◼ ► oh wow so that i asked it a third time and it played season two a third time my point of this
00:45:50 ◼ ► is the idea of seri like apple potentially being hesitant about seri hallucinating seri has such
00:45:56 ◼ ► a bad reputation for getting things wrong now right that like i think that that their appetite
00:46:02 ◼ ► should be different to google where google gets things right currently right like google's whole
00:46:09 ◼ ► thing you go to google and you type a thing and you're expected to get an answer that's correct
00:46:14 ◼ ► i'm not sure if people currently expect accuracy from seri en masse like i feel like in our
00:46:21 ◼ ► audience we do not expect that i don't know what general people do feel there are different levels
00:46:28 ◼ ► of what you're trying to do with seri though right sometimes you're trying to ask seri for facts
00:46:32 ◼ ► and you need to get accurate facts and i actually think seri is pretty good at at facts something
00:46:37 ◼ ► like apple music it's really unforgivable that it's so bad at that yeah and that's one of those
00:46:43 ◼ ► cases where i feel like apple could do a properly trained model but also for for apple music for the
00:46:50 ◼ ► apple music catalog literally they have the data right they have it exactly they could they can
00:46:55 ◼ ► build something out exactly but on top of that um that's where the value of the um the language
00:47:03 ◼ ► model that knows context comes in because it would allow you to say no the one from the first season
00:47:09 ◼ ► after your first query yeah and then it should get it right it might maybe it doesn't but like
00:47:14 ◼ ► you you having to make the same query over and over again to a an amnesiac voice assistant
00:47:21 ◼ ► is part of the problem because that's one of the things behind on actually more was then when i
00:47:27 ◼ ► opened up music and typed mandalorian season one into the search box the first result was exactly
00:47:33 ◼ ► what i was looking for so like why can it not perform the same search that i'm performing
00:47:41 ◼ ► with my fingers you know yeah i guess it's it's called chapter one and that probably confused it
00:47:49 ◼ ► that was what i thought right but when i search for season one it gets it right it gets it right
00:47:56 ◼ ► that that's that's that's like yeah i like i went through this too of like okay so technically it
00:48:01 ◼ ► calls it something else but the fact that the the the apple music apps search does the correct one
00:48:08 ◼ ► why can't siri just hear me and perform that search and then just do the thing i just it's
00:48:16 ◼ ► also got the little icon in the corner that shows that uh among my friends who's listening to that
00:48:20 ◼ ► it's mike it was me going back to this uh macroom's report about ios 17 apparently dynamic
00:48:28 ◼ ► island will be able to quote do a lot more this is the kind of a thing that we've been talking about
00:48:32 ◼ ► right of like now that it's out and available are other teams inside of apple realizing what they
00:48:37 ◼ ► might be able to do with a dynamic island right and and they've got a year or at least they've
00:48:41 ◼ ► got many months of feedback from developers saying i can't implement this because or i implemented
00:48:48 ◼ ► this but and they get to use those and prioritize those and actually find out internally and
00:48:54 ◼ ► externally like what's missing right because i mean i think that's a fundamental thing that
00:48:58 ◼ ► that happens with software like this is you build it internally secretly and you've got your ideas
00:49:04 ◼ ► that you've all come up with but then this is like we talked about shipping the headset like
00:49:08 ◼ ► then it meets reality and everybody's like oh why doesn't it do x and the answer is oh we didn't
00:49:15 ◼ ► think of it or we didn't prioritize it because we didn't think people would want that and then
00:49:19 ◼ ► you get that from five different people and you realize oh yeah that is something we should do
00:49:23 ◼ ► so i'm very excited that they are bringing it to the non-pro phones and making it do a lot more
00:49:31 ◼ ► because that suggests that apple thinks that there's something here it's important for the
00:49:37 ◼ ► platform and that they can keep building on it which is always the fear is it's going to be like
00:49:41 ◼ ► the touch bar and they're going to throw it out there and then ignore it until it fades away but
00:49:45 ◼ ► in this case like i like the dynamic island i wanted to do more but i really like it so i'm
00:49:51 ◼ ► excited that it might do more and i hope that they've been listening to everybody who's
00:49:55 ◼ ► developing apps for it and telling them what's missing i mean now that baseball season is going
00:49:59 ◼ ► on i've been using dynamic island in the mlb app and it's so great to be like using my phone and
00:50:03 ◼ ► i look up and it's got the score it's just so great it's great interactive home screen widgets
00:50:11 ◼ ► that could include quote one tap buttons sliders and other dynamic content is something that apple
00:50:17 ◼ ► is exploring this is maybe uh the shakiest of all of them based on the way it was written
00:50:22 ◼ ► it's kind of just like this is a thing that they're looking at this one interests me i am
00:50:28 ◼ ► definitely in the camp of i was nervous about widgets when we knew that they had no interactivity
00:50:37 ◼ ► of like all this feels like it's going to be a regression right from the the widgets we had before
00:50:42 ◼ ► which were just in the today view when you swiped over and you could have a bunch of buttons
00:50:47 ◼ ► and you could do things in them without needing to ever open an app and then basically as soon as the
00:50:53 ◼ ► new style of widget which could be put on the home screen was introduced i was very happy with them
00:50:58 ◼ ► i thought that overall they were better designed you had more visibility of them and i haven't felt
00:51:03 ◼ ► the requirement really to have buttons in widgets i agree i think widgets are good um i can see the
00:51:11 ◼ ► value of like what if i am always checking the weather for three cities yes i can put three
00:51:20 ◼ ► weather widgets on my screen yes but what if i could put one weather widget on my screen and then
00:51:26 ◼ ► tap to cycle through them yep that would be nice right i have stacks of what's going on like this
00:51:31 ◼ ► that are the same app and the app just offers multiple widget types and you and you swipe
00:51:36 ◼ ► through a stack in order to do it yeah you can do that then it doesn't take up the space but you've
00:51:41 ◼ ► got the that that is a kind of interactive widget right so what if you had the ability to have some
00:51:46 ◼ ► fundamental interaction i don't believe that they're ever going to get to the point where it's
00:51:49 ◼ ► like our friend james humps and building a whole calculator inside a widget right i think they don't
00:51:56 ◼ ► want it to be that well maybe not i mean maybe they do but i like the idea of more dynamic content
00:52:02 ◼ ► like uh you know some different layers of information or something that can rotate through
00:52:09 ◼ ► like cycle through some things every 30 seconds or every minute or something like that uh and uh
00:52:17 ◼ ► you know little sliders or buttons that do basic information because i think what they want
00:52:21 ◼ ► is the is not to break the concept that the home screen widget is not a live app that's running
00:52:28 ◼ ► it's some code that puts some data somewhere where apple can display it so this interactivity
00:52:35 ◼ ► is going to be like showing other content that it has inside it if that makes sense right i
00:52:41 ◼ ► don't think it's going to be like tap to load the new whatever it's going to be like okay
00:52:50 ◼ ► and it'll just say here's the weather data for city one two and three and and it does that every
00:52:55 ◼ ► however often it updates and then you get the little slider or button to tap or whatever that
00:53:00 ◼ ► lets you cycle through them but it's not truly interactive right it's more like it's an interactive
00:53:07 ◼ ► mode of displaying static information i feel like is probably what's going on here i think there are
00:53:13 ◼ ► a couple of simple ones if you have a media widget that you can pause it you know if you have one of
00:53:18 ◼ ► the ones for me time that's true time really has a little stop button on the widget and when you
00:53:22 ◼ ► press it it opens the app and stops the timer running you know the shortcut widget lets you
00:53:28 ◼ ► tap individual shortcuts right that's the only one that's that's it that's it no that that's actually
00:53:34 ◼ ► a good example of something that goes beyond information which is can i can i have items
00:53:39 ◼ ► that launch apps and perform behaviors or allow an app to perform a behavior in the background
00:53:45 ◼ ► that's a that's a great example because timer is a good example of that wouldn't it be nice if i
00:53:49 ◼ ► can make a timer widget with buttons on it and when i press the button it just does it it doesn't
00:53:54 ◼ ► launch the app and and tell me to press the button it just presses the button for me in the background
00:54:00 ◼ ► i don't even need to do anything about it or media controls sure being able to just press pause on
00:54:06 ◼ ► the media control or next and have it do the right thing yeah sure but again i think they're going to
00:54:12 ◼ ► keep it simple if they do this uh mark german has a couple of pieces of mac related news he's kind
00:54:19 ◼ ► of joining the throngs of people at the corral saying that the 15-inch macbook air is coming soon
00:54:26 ◼ ► mark has apparently seen logs of from developers that show that these machines are being tested
00:54:34 ◼ ► with third-party apps to validate their compatibility which is just like an interesting
00:54:38 ◼ ► thing that they do um why would it not work it's you know like but hey you know do your testing
00:54:46 ◼ ► uh and that these max will as expected feature an m2 processor and a piece of information that
00:54:52 ◼ ► i think is new i haven't seen before is that the 15-inch macbook air will have the same screen
00:54:57 ◼ ► resolution as the 14-inch macbook pro which makes sense so they've got another resolution to have
00:55:04 ◼ ► and then obviously it won't be as high quality as crisp as the 14 will be because it'll be a
00:55:09 ◼ ► little bit bigger so parts of mark's report this week are um are very weird okay i look i mean one
00:55:17 ◼ ► of the things he's doing is that he is trying to roll together previous reports of his and i assume
00:55:23 ◼ ► when he does that he's only including things that he's still confident about but some of the reports
00:55:28 ◼ ► are are older um like i saw uh somebody report uh excitedly about um what was it that what they
00:55:38 ◼ ► were doing it was something that he reported before um about sideline sideloading right he was
00:55:42 ◼ ► like oh i was 17 they're working to overhaul the software to open up the phone to sideloading and
00:55:46 ◼ ► he links to a story from december i don't i can't tell whether he's saying i checked with my source
00:55:54 ◼ ► and that's still happening or whether he's literally just pulling a link from december and
00:55:58 ◼ ► saying in december i reported that they're doing this i can't and i know that's a fine difference
00:56:03 ◼ ► but it's like it does matter because things do change and i'm unclear whether he still is
00:56:09 ◼ ► confident in this or whether he's got a report from december that's the last he knows of it but
00:56:14 ◼ ► he's rounding up all of his reports so he's going to throw it in there because that's one of the
00:56:17 ◼ ► things he wrote about ios 17 but the part of his report that really baffled me was about the m2
00:56:29 ◼ ► processor so he says apple has several new models in the works at least some of the new laptops will
00:56:37 ◼ ► be introduced at wwdc but the models coming in june probably won't boast major new m3 chips
00:56:44 ◼ ► instead they'll run something in line with the current m2 processors i don't know what this means
00:56:53 ◼ ► he says plural models coming in june and then says they won't have the m3 but they will have
00:57:00 ◼ ► something in line with the current m2 processors what does in line mean is it m two and a half
00:57:05 ◼ ► is it is it just the m2 is it that there'll be an m i mean i have a hard time believing a macbook
00:57:11 ◼ ► air is going to have an m2 pro option right what i would say is maybe the chips could be binned
00:57:17 ◼ ► differently so it might not right i don't like it might not be the exact m2 that's available in the
00:57:24 ◼ ► current okay okay but but new laptops plural and they i don't see a new laptop here other
00:57:33 ◼ ► than the 15-inch macbook air while the revision of the 13 what how do you revise an m2 macbook air
00:57:43 ◼ ► on the m2 yeah i don't know how is that a revision right it doesn't follow yeah so i agree so i don't
00:57:50 ◼ ► know this is what baffles me i don't know if what he's saying is apple's actually going to do an m2
00:57:55 ◼ ► air refresh with some different colors or something and maybe some different chip options
00:58:01 ◼ ► with different you know like maybe like you say binning maybe they make a cheaper version with
00:58:06 ◼ ► fewer cores that's available i don't know or again maybe we're reading too much into this and what
00:58:13 ◼ ► really he essentially means here is that they're just going to do an m2 15-inch air and the rest
00:58:19 ◼ ► of it's going to come later yeah yeah which is uh oh by the way the 13-inch macbook pro
00:58:24 ◼ ► that's something where i think they could do a revision and just say oh it's got the m it's got
00:58:31 ◼ ► m2 pro as an option now because it's got a fan in it right they can put an m2 pro pro chip in there
00:58:36 ◼ ► in the base model 13-inch macbook pro with touch bar they could do that so maybe that's it maybe
00:58:42 ◼ ► it's a a in line with current m2 processors update for that model but i don't i don't see how you up
00:58:48 ◼ ► an m2 air already exists so i'm not sure it can get updated and it's in a brand new enclosure
00:58:54 ◼ ► unless as you said they actually they finally put color in it like that you know what i mean right
00:58:58 ◼ ► like this they might actually do it but like if they've got an m3 air waiting in the wings the
00:59:02 ◼ ► last thing you would want to do right is is i would think unless it's not coming i don't think
00:59:07 ◼ ► it's waiting in the wings i i'm not sure how much in the wings it is because if it is then why like
00:59:15 ◼ ► what so then the 15 and the 13 will be on completely different chip years yeah right like that yeah
00:59:22 ◼ ► that's super weird though right okay so that would be the other way to go is say you know we're not
00:59:28 ◼ ► going to even do i mean we don't know maybe m3 is delayed yeah and we don't know that yet and
00:59:34 ◼ ► that m3 is going to come later and maybe they're like well we got to refresh the air and they do
00:59:39 ◼ ► it with the phone so maybe that's the answer is also we've got some new colors in the in the m2
00:59:44 ◼ ► air that everybody loves today we've got this new 15 inch m2 air and then we've got the 13 inch m2
00:59:49 ◼ ► air and it's got some new colors yay it's got a dark brown and a very dark green that are that
00:59:55 ◼ ► look like they're black but colors or they could do something bright wouldn't that be nice and that
01:00:00 ◼ ► would be i i think they might even spur some sales wouldn't that be nice like how do you spur sales
01:00:05 ◼ ► on a one-year-old laptop is like make it make it an orange orange yeah maybe mark is also reporting
01:00:12 ◼ ► that apple is working on an updated version of the max studio he actually says multiple so this is two
01:00:17 ◼ ► max studio follow-ups are planned but their timing is less clear and some of the other things that he
01:00:22 ◼ ► has less clear than what less clear than a lot of things are unclear here but well he does in that
01:00:28 ◼ ► report that you're referencing he references like in the next six months they've got like a bunch of
01:00:32 ◼ ► things that they're working on and this is like he doesn't have a time frame at all but they are
01:00:38 ◼ ► working on it which is good because there has been concern and discussion of like hey is this another
01:00:44 ◼ ► one of those could have replaced the mac pro they make one of them and then don't do another one
01:00:49 ◼ ► like the i know no it's great to hear that the max studio follow-ups are being planned that's
01:00:54 ◼ ► fantastic um i just so so what we're getting is this idea that there's going to be something
01:01:00 ◼ ► in june and then there's going to be some stuff in the fall as there always is and maybe that's where
01:01:05 ◼ ► the m3 debuts and there's max studio follow-ups coming but it's unclear when my guess would be
01:01:12 ◼ ► next spring for an m3 pro or m3 m3 max and m3 ultra that would be my guess because it feels to
01:01:22 ◼ ► me like what they're really settling on here is that desktops go every other year and laptops go
01:01:26 ◼ ► every year um or at least every other generation chip generation if it's not a year and laptops
01:01:32 ◼ ► go every chip generation and if that's true then you know yay and two max studio follow-ups also
01:01:38 ◼ ► the question is what does that mean is that two two different kind of variants on the max studio
01:01:42 ◼ ► or are they thinking out two generations with it either way happy to hear it as a max studio owner
01:01:49 ◼ ► i love that idea that it's it's gonna survive i love this and i think there's a good i think
01:01:55 ◼ ► there's a good place for it uh because it is faster than the the mac mini right the mac mini is
01:02:00 ◼ ► m2 and m2 pro and the and the mac studio is m is m1 ultra and max so they both serve kind of like
01:02:11 ◼ ► it's a nice product ramp there so yeah we'll see but um that report made me happy as as frustrated
01:02:18 ◼ ► as the rest of it yeah with the uh with the mysterious uh multiple laptops on something
01:02:24 ◼ ► in line with the m2 processor i don't know there's i think he's just hedging there is what's really
01:02:28 ◼ ► going on and he's not he's not doing his kind of wink wink nudge nudge thing i think he's just
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01:04:32 ◼ ► electric for their support of this show and relay fm so we have some more from mark german uh he
01:04:39 ◼ ► had his kind of like pre-wwdc report i don't know if this is going to be the the actual one that we
01:04:47 ◼ ► will go into wwc with or if there will be anything sooner he usually has kind of a a report like this
01:04:54 ◼ ► before every apple event right that we're expecting yeah and he'll and then things are gonna right as
01:04:58 ◼ ► things get closer he's gonna hear things yeah he's gonna update it but this is one of those things
01:05:02 ◼ ► with bloomberg especially that they want that refresher kind of thing of like because he trickles
01:05:06 ◼ ► it out during the year and i think it's fair to say that a lot of people aren't paying attention
01:05:10 ◼ ► and so this gives him a chance to say all right they've announced wwdc let me tell you what i've
01:05:14 ◼ ► already reported about what's going to be there and then throw in some new stuff if he knows it
01:05:18 ◼ ► and there are a couple of things that this uh report that i thought could be interested in
01:05:22 ◼ ► touching on uh obviously mark says what we're expecting is that the headset will be the star
01:05:27 ◼ ► of the show it will feature the hardware the accompanying os and the sdk for developers
01:05:33 ◼ ► a quote from mark's story i'm told the device will come with a clear story for developers in terms of
01:05:38 ◼ ► how they'll want to use it and much of the week-long conference will showcase the headsets
01:05:42 ◼ ► onboard app store and accompanying tools right makes sense right what you'd hope this is actually
01:05:50 ◼ ► last year when the rumors were that this was going to happen maybe last year or we were hoping
01:05:54 ◼ ► this is the scenario right which is it's a new platform you're at the developer conference now's
01:06:00 ◼ ► the time to lay everything out about how this thing's going to work and what we want from
01:06:05 ◼ ► developers and get all give them all the details and then you know they'll ship it later in the
01:06:10 ◼ ► year also like from that uh can we talk about is ios and ipod os not going to introduce major
01:06:17 ◼ ► features it will focus on smaller improvements we've touched on these in the last couple of weeks
01:06:21 ◼ ► you mentioned a minute ago about the uh opening up right the side loading yeah german mentions
01:06:27 ◼ ► that they are still working on the potential ability to open up the iphone to support third
01:06:32 ◼ ► party app stores in ios 17 but not expecting for that to be a part of wwc itself that made sense to
01:06:39 ◼ ► me that like in ios 17's life cycle this may occur i would not expect this to be a part of the wwc
01:06:47 ◼ ► presentation like do you remember there was many years ago i think it was the verge where phil
01:06:55 ◼ ► schiller sat down with the verge like a week before wwc to talk about the there were like
01:07:01 ◼ ► subscription price changes that were coming i think it was the year when they introduced the
01:07:06 ◼ ► 15 if someone was subscribed for a year or longer and they they got out in front of the
01:07:13 ◼ ► keynote so that everybody was already sort of defused about that issue before apple made its
01:07:19 ◼ ► news and i imagine that when and if apple ever do third-party app stores they do it i reckon it's
01:07:27 ◼ ► often or before but like in that idea of like we're not going to ruin quote unquote our
01:07:32 ◼ ► presentation by just having everyone focus on this one thing which is not the thing we want people to
01:07:38 ◼ ► focus on the last last thing they want them to focus on also it sounds like these regulations
01:07:42 ◼ ► are going to happen later in the year and it sounds like everybody's scrambling to do this
01:07:50 ◼ ► a later time i think you're exactly right about that i will put in one thing for people to look
01:08:02 ◼ ► watch for shapes and silhouettes and hints and and and faint smells of this in announcements
01:08:20 ◼ ► for app security and maybe and it might even not be in the sessions it may be in the developers
01:08:30 ◼ ► digging into the beta but like that's where i might expect first confirmation of this existing
01:08:36 ◼ ► is people looking at features you know and they do this from time to time people looking from
01:08:40 ◼ ► at features that apple just says this is a feature and you look at it and you go yeah but why is this
01:08:44 ◼ ► a feature and you think oh this would be a feature you would need to do if you were going to do uh
01:08:51 ◼ ► third-party app stores or side loading in general and and i'm you know i just i'm not saying it'll
01:08:56 ◼ ► be there but that would be one of the things that i would watch for in terms of a sign a little hint
01:09:02 ◼ ► that this is where they were headed even if they're not ready to announce that feature yet
01:09:12 ◼ ► for how to handle payments like don't even worry about it right yeah but if you could just implement
01:09:18 ◼ ► it and actually you have to and we're gonna make you that'd be super good like if we just change
01:09:22 ◼ ► something but you don't need to worry about it here's a session about it later on just watch
01:09:29 ◼ ► that you know i can imagine this kind of or like or not even that of like why is there a session
01:09:34 ◼ ► about this i was thinking of something like hey so we're gonna introduce a new thing it'll be in
01:09:38 ◼ ► state of the union or something we're gonna introduce a new part of app review and every
01:09:43 ◼ ► developer's like oh god a new part of aperture and it's like well no we're gonna have an explicit
01:09:47 ◼ ► you know you all know notarization from a friend mac os right notarization who y'all know how about
01:09:55 ◼ ► you know our friend saul he does the notarization he's gonna look at your apps we're gonna have a
01:10:04 ◼ ► it's gonna be very familiar because now all apps that go in the app store are gonna have that
01:10:08 ◼ ► process in addition to the existing process and developers i mean i'm making that up but something
01:10:13 ◼ ► like that i know developers are gonna be like it already does scans and it already does i know i
01:10:17 ◼ ► know it does but just watch that right because there'll be something in the process where you're
01:10:21 ◼ ► like why did you change this process oh because every app's gonna get that now couple of things
01:10:27 ◼ ► this reminds me of one is when they had the session on size classes that's the classic one
01:10:33 ◼ ► people mention right classic right what if things could be different sizes a scenario in which your
01:10:40 ◼ ► iphone screen could be a different size why would an ipad app need to change its physical size who
01:10:47 ◼ ► could tell interesting well it's because you know the iphone and ipad are different sizes and that's
01:10:51 ◼ ► totally why well why don't i just do an iphone version and an ipad version no don't do that you
01:10:57 ◼ ► know what i mean what have you done the other one was a few years ago where they were like hey look
01:11:02 ◼ ► at all these developers coming back to the app store and it's like wait what like the mac app
01:11:06 ◼ ► so i was like no but these apps won't work but look don't worry about it though it's fine you know
01:11:11 ◼ ► yeah adobe and bare bones and microsoft they're all coming back to the mac app store it's great
01:11:17 ◼ ► uh watch os 10 will be the biggest os update which is interesting but you know we spoke about that
01:11:25 ◼ ► like we're looking at potentially a redesign here and love it mac laptop announcements most likely
01:11:31 ◼ ► the macbook air as we mentioned is kind of wrapping it out there it's what we might it does
01:11:36 ◼ ► i'm actually a little surprised that they would put that in the event i feel like if you've just
01:11:39 ◼ ► got a macbook air just drop it in may i i feel like what you're not gonna be busy enough with
01:11:44 ◼ ► the headset like why do you need more i would i would not put it past them to to not to kick it
01:11:51 ◼ ► out of wwc and have it be a few weeks before a few weeks after just to get it out of there because you
01:11:57 ◼ ► know what you don't need yeah it's a distraction unless they unless they want it to be a distraction
01:12:02 ◼ ► but i don't think they do um like hardware doesn't need to happen at wwc and if it's just a a bigger
01:12:08 ◼ ► macbook air and it's not like a mac pro announcement or something then it's not even like the
01:12:12 ◼ ► appropriate audience can you imagine like the hands-on area like the saddest little display
01:12:18 ◼ ► of all time right which is the the 15-inch macbook air as everybody's trying to get their hands on the
01:12:24 ◼ ► headset on the headset and this little map this to me feels like hey hey it's in the keynote now in
01:12:32 ◼ ► case of this other thing we're not going to include right about time or whatever they might want it to
01:12:38 ◼ ► be and or they you know they've already made some videos for it and they did it all at the same time
01:12:43 ◼ ► and it's very easy for them to just like it's out of the keynote now we're going to do it in may or
01:12:48 ◼ ► something yeah like that or july mm-hmm maybe maybe i i look if you've got it and you think it'll
01:12:58 ◼ ► benefit you then announce it but i it seems like it's going to be packed maybe they're maybe maybe
01:13:03 ◼ ► not maybe they're like well there's not that much about the other os's we're going to do the reality
01:13:06 ◼ ► headset but there's only so much we can say about that having a some meat and potatoes in there for
01:13:10 ◼ ► our developer audience about a mac laptop uh okay all right but i'm not sure the 15-inch macbook air
01:13:16 ◼ ► is that so i i don't know um the watch os 10 thing i still am scratching my head about but uh yeah
01:13:27 ◼ ► but there's there's look they they they had their first cut at it and then they sort of like took
01:13:32 ◼ ► stuff away and they added a few things it would be i i don't feel like apple has done the let's do a
01:13:39 ◼ ► new a rethink of watch os i think they've done little bits and pieces here and there and like
01:13:46 ◼ ► an example is like remember time travel i had to really that wanted to throw me off yes i do remember
01:13:53 ◼ ► time i was a joke you like asking me is this like a general question it's a doctor who question i've
01:13:58 ◼ ► got for you don't you're trivia uh time travel was like you could take your watch face and then use
01:14:03 ◼ ► the use the uh crown the digital crown to like move through time and it would it had it had the
01:14:10 ◼ ► idea was like you could move forward and see like what was next on your schedule but it also had the
01:14:14 ◼ ► effect of if you bumped your your digital crown it changed the time the actual actual time on the
01:14:20 ◼ ► watch yes to the wrong time which is not what you want so then they got rid of that feature but like
01:14:26 ◼ ► i think that if it done properly using your digital crown spinning it while you're on the
01:14:34 ◼ ► watch face could do something right it could do something it could adjust something in the
01:14:39 ◼ ► complications it could scroll the watch face off and have like a widget view it could like i don't
01:14:45 ◼ ► know it could do something but what it does is nothing and the reason it does nothing is because
01:14:51 ◼ ► of time travel so again it would be kind of nice if like they repurpose the side button which was
01:14:58 ◼ ► originally digital touch and they made that into app switcher and all that like i i would love to
01:15:03 ◼ ► see them if this is what this is to for it to be a real rethink of like okay learning everything
01:15:08 ◼ ► we've learned about the watch let's start from some basics instead of just patching this thing
01:15:14 ◼ ► that has been you know out there since the first version of the watch so we'll see you know saying
01:15:20 ◼ ► about things you've forgotten something i was reminded of uh when i was looking up something
01:15:24 ◼ ► a couple of days ago do you remember glances on watchos glances yes this is part of i think
01:15:32 ◼ ► watchos one i know i don't remember if it went past that you would swipe up from the bottom of
01:15:37 ◼ ► the watch and it would show you pieces of information like here's your heart rate here's
01:15:42 ◼ ► your next appointment your calendar and they took that and made a control center instead yeah and
01:15:47 ◼ ► they also just got rid of glances completely yeah that's the thing like it was it was one of the
01:15:51 ◼ ► original failed parts of watchos like when it was like watch kit i think it was part of the watch kit
01:15:58 ◼ ► api stuff so like what this reminded me of when i was looking at there was widgets right you know
01:16:03 ◼ ► we were talking about like maybe dynamic stuff widget stuff how could you change something in
01:16:08 ◼ ► watchos that was one of the things that i was thinking about that yeah um with it in the chat
01:16:13 ◼ ► says time travel sort of exists in the the solar dial watch face we'll do some adjustments
01:16:18 ◼ ► it has like little bits left but what i'm saying is sort of like that's a big gesture that you
01:16:23 ◼ ► could probably do with something in your user interface right of your watch that instead is
01:16:27 ◼ ► sort of like uh a watch face has something that it does with it i i can just see apple bringing in
01:16:32 ◼ ► the steamroller there and being like nope new new paradigm now because time travel became a thing
01:16:38 ◼ ► for a while that was a setting and then it just went away faded away because it was an interesting
01:16:46 ◼ ► idea but just the exit the it's like a great idea and like a good demo but in use is lends to
01:16:57 ◼ ► confusion yeah i think so so part of it is the way that it was implemented is if you accidentally
01:17:04 ◼ ► spun the dial a little bit uh you got the wrong time that was a problem i could see an argument
01:17:10 ◼ ► that like if you're on a watch face that's got a calendar on it that you can spin the dial and like
01:17:15 ◼ ► if you if you it can tell you're actually spinning the dial it's not an accident and you're trying to
01:17:28 ◼ ► right but not changing the time on your watch which was cute but really confusing potentially
01:17:36 ◼ ► so like i could see again there's an argument to be made about like what if you could advance your
01:17:41 ◼ ► data or and at that point it's like well what if you could scroll if i've got a weather widget with
01:17:46 ◼ ► one city on it what if i could scroll to the next city right like again there's other things you
01:17:50 ◼ ► can maybe do with it so and my larger point is just there's stuff like that all over watchos that
01:17:55 ◼ ► is sort of like you know they're patching it they're taping it up that we took this thing out
01:17:59 ◼ ► we put this thing in and i'd like to see them revisit it now from like a top i know this is
01:18:04 ◼ ► going to terrify people but like an ios 7 kind of thing sorry calm down everybody calm down i would
01:18:12 ◼ ► like i i think at watchos deserves that kind of let's think about this moment and you know anytime
01:18:22 ◼ ► you do that you're going to make some people mad but i i do think it kind of needs it you want all
01:18:28 ◼ ► the watch faces to get thinner yeah i want everything to be flat and thin and unreadable
01:18:34 ◼ ► and flat and thin i you know i i was seven wasn't quite ready and was frustrating in a lot of ways
01:18:44 ◼ ► but i'm just gonna say it i don't get ios 6 nostalgia at all i see screenshots where people
01:18:52 ◼ ► are like oh look at this big fat skeuomorphic boy with its big wood grain and the bulges here and
01:19:00 ◼ ► i hate it yeah i hate it i don't get i get the nostalgia i get the nostalgia but like ios 7 had
01:19:07 ◼ ► lots of issues it needed to a lot of things to be resolved by shipping it they got a lot of pushback
01:19:13 ◼ ► and they made changes it was not remotely perfect but it needed to happen and i'm glad it happened
01:19:22 ◼ ► there i said it i'm glad it happened i i wish it had been further along i wish it had not been
01:19:27 ◼ ► quite so extreme but the fact is they came out with the extreme version and then they spent uh
01:19:32 ◼ ► some time peddling that back i was seven was a good idea it's more usable like i am on board with
01:19:36 ◼ ► this okay right like it was a good idea because look what i think i think i think that a lot of
01:19:42 ◼ ► people forget is that apps started to look like this like the flat design that was what we called
01:19:48 ◼ ► it flat design apps started to adopt this style of design before ios 7 came along and made the whole
01:19:57 ◼ ► thing sure right like this is what it looks like on the on the os because skeuomorphic design
01:20:04 ◼ ► this like making things look real became very heavy it became very intensive everything looked
01:20:10 ◼ ► dark whenever i look at screenshots of ios 6 phones everything looks really dark and it was
01:20:20 ◼ ► good looking app you needed to be able to understand the design textures which was really
01:20:25 ◼ ► hard and now you don't need that so much so i think it was a good thing was ios 7 too far in
01:20:30 ◼ ► a bunch of ways yes but that was because it seemed like it was rushed right like it was it was fast
01:20:37 ◼ ► they had they didn't have a lot of time which is why like ios 7 beta 1 to the shipping version
01:20:43 ◼ ► looked so different and yes it then still took a lot of time and there are still places where like
01:20:49 ◼ ► buttons still don't look like buttons and like i know right you know like that is one of the
01:20:54 ◼ ► bad parts that we still have but overall that design idea was great and i agree with you
01:20:59 ◼ ► watch os 10 should be watch os is like a big rethink moment like if you just start it again
01:21:06 ◼ ► where would you end up i would like to see what that might be exactly there's one thing about
01:21:17 ◼ ► apple has already changed this right now you have this whole thing about like it'll stay on the
01:21:23 ◼ ► previous version and give you software updates and say would you like to update to the new version
01:21:27 ◼ ► yeah the number one worst thing that ios 7 did actually was discourage regular users from ever
01:21:34 ◼ ► updating their phones yeah because i still see this with my friends and family like it can't
01:21:39 ◼ ► ios 7 was such a change it changed their phones out from under them and they're and they were like
01:21:44 ◼ ► oh i'm never doing an apple software update again which isn't true right you can't do that but it
01:21:49 ◼ ► means that they cancel you know and say no i'm gonna resist that and i was visiting my mom and
01:21:55 ◼ ► she's like should i really do that like it's gonna change my phone i'm like no it's a security update
01:22:00 ◼ ► do it and uh but that totally came because ios 7 confused so many people when it launched
01:22:07 ◼ ► because they just updated their phones so their phones just updated they're like what happened
01:22:10 ◼ ► to my phone and that like you gotta you can't do that right you gotta be when you make changes to
01:22:16 ◼ ► somebody's phone out from under them you gotta you gotta warn them you gotta explain what you're
01:22:20 ◼ ► gonna do you gotta walk them through it and i know you want everybody to to update but you gotta be
01:22:25 ◼ ► gentle with it and that i think is actually the biggest sin of ios 7 it was a huge change and
01:22:30 ◼ ► apple just dropped it on people because they were in their own little bubble of like oh yeah we're
01:22:34 ◼ ► just gonna push out a software update it's like no you're gonna actually completely change the
01:22:38 ◼ ► look and behavior of the phone of everybody who's got an iphone and they're gonna hate you for it
01:22:43 ◼ ► and i know you need it to get out there but you gotta find a strategy to mitigate this a little
01:22:48 ◼ ► bit i think that's the biggest sin of ios 7 do you want to talk very quickly about just touch on
01:22:55 ◼ ► make something wonderful which was the book that came out last week and website epub um i just want
01:23:02 ◼ ► to just put out there everyone that i see that has a physical version of this book just know i'm very
01:23:07 ◼ ► jealous of you yeah same but that i really do hope that apple finds a way to make it available but i
01:23:13 ◼ ► don't think that they will but if you're a an apple or disney employee who has no interest in that
01:23:18 ◼ ► book get in touch um we wouldn't mind it i liked it i i i i'm always okay i think i've talked about
01:23:27 ◼ ► it on the show before but like the steve jobs archive is it makes me uneasy and it makes me
01:23:33 ◼ ► uneasy because it is steve jobs's friends and family trying to control the narrative about
01:23:37 ◼ ► who steve jobs was and that makes me uneasy just because i don't love the idea of anybody kind of
01:23:44 ◼ ► like saying we're just gonna uh there's this guy who lived and died and now we're gonna tell his
01:23:49 ◼ ► story in a way that that makes us happy and that makes people remember him in the way we want right
01:23:56 ◼ ► at the same time i also completely acknowledge that if you don't do that you just let history
01:24:02 ◼ ► decide and it is not a very careful judgment that happens it's kind of this thing that just
01:24:09 ◼ ► organically emerges and you end up with a historic figure who has been you know reduced to a very
01:24:14 ◼ ► simple version of themselves that may not focus on the stuff that is what was important about them or
01:24:22 ◼ ► what we judge to be important about them so on that level i appreciate why it exists while at
01:24:27 ◼ ► the same time being kind of uneasy about the idea that they are straight up like myth making about
01:24:34 ◼ ► steve jobs so there it is i said it that said i thought that the book was really well done
01:24:39 ◼ ► i it's it's curated by essentially it's a historian who's basically the operator of the
01:24:44 ◼ ► steve jobs archive and she was a uh uh uh academic historian before that as well um it's very well
01:24:53 ◼ ► done it's it's a collection of things from like transcripts of things he said and things he wrote
01:24:58 ◼ ► and especially he sent emails to himself with his notes about what he was thinking about stuff that
01:25:03 ◼ ► became a habit for him i guess his high cloud sinking wasn't so great um and i mean it was a
01:25:08 ◼ ► habit right from way back in the day and that was the thing you could do is send yourself emails so
01:25:12 ◼ ► he did that and so that gives us a lot of insight into you know all sorts of things he was working
01:25:18 ◼ ► on or thinking about and there are other emails in there too i think the first couple of parts of the
01:25:23 ◼ ► book where he talks about his childhood and his and growing up and then the early days at apple
01:25:28 ◼ ► and going off to next i think is the most interesting stuff in the book the third act of it
01:25:33 ◼ ► is very much more like here's what he said on stage at macworld expo and here's a memo he sent
01:25:38 ◼ ► out to all apple employees and here's a memo he sent out to pixar employees and you know the uh
01:25:46 ◼ ► steve jobs's recollections of childhood are really interesting memos from the ceo less so right
01:25:53 ◼ ► memos from the ceo are less interesting than that so that that end part is not as it's as good
01:25:58 ◼ ► although it does have his stanford commencement speech which is amazing and has the uh and has
01:26:03 ◼ ► his drafts draft ideas from his email which is wild um so anyway yeah it's a it's a it's worth
01:26:10 ◼ ► it's free it's free i think it's worth looking at if you are interested in steve jobs and apple at
01:26:14 ◼ ► all because there's stuff in there that i i had had seen before but there's a lot of stuff in there
01:26:18 ◼ ► that i had not seen before or had forgotten about that um was interesting to hear essentially in his
01:26:24 ◼ ► own words so so yeah i i definitely recommend it i was going to give it a pass and then i was like
01:26:30 ◼ ► well look i should scroll through it and then i found that i was really scrolling through it
01:26:34 ◼ ► the website's really beautiful too and then i i read the rest of them the epub and you know it's
01:26:39 ◼ ► uh yeah it's it's worth it's worth it it is not uh boring you know business book about a famous man
01:26:49 ◼ ► nor is it a you know like a biography or something it really is just sort of like who was this guy
01:26:56 ◼ ► in his own words uh and then he became a ceo and he sent out memos and then he's less interesting
01:27:12 ◼ ► to be true you know like um i think that that is as valuable as any other story that can be told
01:27:21 ◼ ► of like people that love him wanting to be remembered this way i think that i think that
01:27:25 ◼ ► that is important as well as like here is the out and out objective history of a human and their
01:27:32 ◼ ► life yeah no i i understand the impulse and i i appreciate it um i think maybe part of what takes
01:27:38 ◼ ► me aback is that it's not just like hey it's it's lorraine jobs and johnny i've and we're working on
01:27:46 ◼ ► a project about our friend steve it's we have created the steve jobs archive now the steve jobs
01:27:52 ◼ ► archive has released this and you know it is it is so structured and calculated and designed to be
01:28:00 ◼ ► it's like apple university is the internal tool at apple to like keep the culture what they want it to
01:28:05 ◼ ► be um this is like that for the outside it's like we're gonna manage steve jobs's image and again it
01:28:13 ◼ ► makes me uneasy because you're right there there are things that they're not going to want to talk
01:28:16 ◼ ► about it's not it's not a place for the unvarnished truth it's not the steve jobs presidential library
01:28:20 ◼ ► maybe i'll be proven wrong maybe they'll be like yeah we've got bad stuff in here too check it out
01:28:24 ◼ ► but uh i don't think that's why it's there i think it's there to burnish his reputation
01:28:28 ◼ ► and that's fine i understand it again history is going to do what it's going to do the way you
01:28:33 ◼ ► fight that is by doing something like this where you're like no we're gonna make we're gonna say
01:28:38 ◼ ► what you should remember about steve jobs we're gonna be the ones who define that that what gives
01:28:42 ◼ ► me pause is that like it's not the whole story it's the story they want you to know about him and
01:28:46 ◼ ► and they have every right to do that it's just again there's just part of me that's like but it's
01:28:52 ◼ ► not the whole story right it is it is what you want but i understand why i would do it if i were
01:28:56 ◼ ► them i would absolutely do it yeah yeah because you're like i obviously have access to his email
01:29:01 ◼ ► and we've seen emails that came in like subpoenas depositions and depositions right which is a
01:29:09 ◼ ► different man but it's still the same man you know and so like it is you know and it's like
01:29:15 ◼ ► in the depositions we don't get the good stuff right yeah and and you mix it all together right
01:29:20 ◼ ► like you you mentioned on connected uh reading uh lisa's book yeah right which is a very different
01:29:27 ◼ ► view of small fries it's very good but it's a very good book but it shows a very complicated man
01:29:34 ◼ ► yeah so so the truth is that steve jobs archive in some ways is trying to be part of the conversation
01:29:40 ◼ ► about steve jobs yeah that can get the stuff that they have access to because they have access to
01:29:45 ◼ ► his papers and emails and all those things in order to tell the story the way they want to tell
01:29:51 ◼ ► it everybody else gets to tell it the way they want to tell it so why not the people who knew
01:29:55 ◼ ► him well and loved him and have access to all of his stuff i again i think it's totally reasonable
01:30:00 ◼ ► i just what what my reaction to the steve jobs archive is this is bad it shouldn't exist it's
01:30:05 ◼ ► not that what it is is it's know what it is just everybody know what it is because it is the people
01:30:13 ◼ ► friends and family of steve jobs trying to myth make about him not i'm not saying like they're
01:30:19 ◼ ► lying about him i'm saying they're trying to give you a very specific image of steve jobs and just
01:30:24 ◼ ► know that because they're not that's their that's their job is to burnish his reputation for history
01:30:29 ◼ ► and impart his wisdom on all of us in the meantime like and that's just that's just be aware of that
01:30:35 ◼ ► that that's that's what you're getting but it's a good book i liked it this episode is brought to
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01:33:08 ◼ ► and relay fm let's do some ask upgrade questions to finish out today's episode of the upgrade
01:33:16 ◼ ► podcast first one comes from peter peter says jason mentions that he's a runner every now and
01:33:22 ◼ ► then as an upgrade listener and an amateur runner myself i'm curious to learn more about jason's
01:33:27 ◼ ► running do you run races do you run daily weekly sporadically how do you use your apple watch to
01:33:34 ◼ ► track your runs if at all do you use third-party apps to do this you just stick with apple's tools
01:33:38 ◼ ► calling me a runner is really pushing it i have run i do run i do it for exercise because it's
01:33:49 ◼ ► pretty easy to do i mean the classic thing about running is you can just go run and you don't need
01:33:54 ◼ ► equipment and you just run around my neighborhood in this case um i have done a couple of virtual
01:34:03 ◼ ► 5ks i've never even done one of those in person it was during the pandemic especially when i was
01:34:07 ◼ ► running uh when i was running regularly so the story is i'm not running currently because last
01:34:13 ◼ ► summer i tripped over a curb and bruised my ribs and then i didn't run for a while partially because
01:34:18 ◼ ► my ribs hurt and partially because i did it while i was running and i didn't decided not to run for
01:34:22 ◼ ► a while uh and then the other the other reason is uh we got a dog and the dog is young and she's 12
01:34:33 ◼ ► months now and um the dog is extremely high energy and so my my my old dog was an old dog who was not
01:34:45 ◼ ► who is extremely low energy so i have to take i mean honestly taking the dog out once a day is
01:34:50 ◼ ► probably not enough and i need to take her out twice a day but that really eats into my time
01:34:56 ◼ ► that i would use for other things so i end up doing a very fast-paced dog walk instead of a run
01:35:00 ◼ ► and that's just how it is now will i get back to it probably um and i mean we'll see so in terms of
01:35:09 ◼ ► the tech i did i did like three days a week that was my run goal was three days a week i used
01:35:15 ◼ ► couch to 5k to get up to speed i actually use a pro an app called intervals pro which lets you
01:35:22 ◼ ► program in a couch to 5k plan i originally used the couch to 5k app but i found intervals pro and
01:35:28 ◼ ► intervals pro is great because it's an apple watch app as well you can program in uh your couch to 5k
01:35:34 ◼ ► program and then when you get up to the 5k which i i would do after you know i'm gonna have to start
01:35:39 ◼ ► it again at the beginning uh but when you when you get up to that point then instead of those
01:35:43 ◼ ► intervals i was just setting out like eventually i get to the point where i can just use the running
01:35:48 ◼ ► app the the activity running activity and say just run open goal or for 30 minutes or whatever
01:35:54 ◼ ► but um intervals pro was the thing that i used to get up to that point so highly recommend that if
01:36:00 ◼ ► you're doing a program and you want to use just the apple watch because it runs directly on the
01:36:05 ◼ ► apple watch and it means i don't need to run with a phone and uh and then i listen to overcast again
01:36:10 ◼ ► on the apple watch so it was a i i finally got it to where i was living the dream where i had you
01:36:14 ◼ ► know air pods in my ears and my apple watch on my wrist and that's it and it was tracking me
01:36:19 ◼ ► it was telling me when to stop and start running and it was playing my podcast while i was doing
01:36:23 ◼ ► that and that was great um and yes when i tripped over the curb both my air pods flew out of my ears
01:36:29 ◼ ► onto the sidewalk it was a road that was shut down um and i was i was running down it because
01:36:36 ◼ ► that's fun and then i got toward the end and i went up on the sidewalk and i missed the i missed
01:36:43 ◼ ► the cut out for the driveway and hit the curb and uh tried to take it in my hands and and and uh
01:36:49 ◼ ► and elbows and uh i took a lot of it in that but uh i i still made contact with my ribs and and
01:36:57 ◼ ► so you decided to go yeah i'll rip the old rib first actually yeah well it was second it was
01:37:04 ◼ ► second but i didn't i hadn't stopped enough of the force yeah uh and you know so basically i walked
01:37:09 ◼ ► didn't break anything but basically i walked back home very slowly and got in the car and went to
01:37:13 ◼ ► the er and all that kind of stuff anyway i would like to run again um the dog is the question and
01:37:21 ◼ ► you know i could maybe i could run with the dog i'm not the dog is a handful right now so so yeah
01:37:25 ◼ ► i'm spending all my kind of outdoor time on that instead but um but yeah i love the whole wireless
01:37:31 ◼ ► apple watch and headphones um thing and i would go my my wife would drop me off downtown on her way
01:37:39 ◼ ► to work on wednesdays and i would run back home which was great it was like two and a half miles
01:37:44 ◼ ► and that was usually when connected was on live and i would actually use broadcasts on the apple
01:37:49 ◼ ► watch to stream it live just apple watch because it's a cellular model loved that too that was
01:37:55 ◼ ► really great and then i would use siri to send text messages to mike and stephen uh during the
01:38:00 ◼ ► show which was also i thought was hilarious so i'll get back to it someday now you just do it
01:38:05 ◼ ► when you're in the shower i do i do i i listen to lots of podcasts in the show i don't have a
01:38:11 ◼ ► commute so it's walking the dog and in the shower is when i listen to all my podcasts and driving
01:38:14 ◼ ► to curling that's about it yeah was this the other day i'm just calling you out for the other day
01:38:19 ◼ ► when you were sending us live feedback from the shower i believe from the show i i i honestly i
01:38:26 ◼ ► did step out of the shower when i was done and i tiled off and then i sent you the feedback
01:38:31 ◼ ► but it was all composed in the shower yeah so i wanted to detail that so like about two minutes
01:38:35 ◼ ► later i said oh send from the shower i like that idea of like i'll write it when i'm in the shower
01:38:40 ◼ ► but i'll do the decency of waiting to press send until i'm out of the shower well i i didn't type
01:38:44 ◼ ► it in in the shower i composed it in my mind in the shower but then i stepped out because well
01:38:48 ◼ ► using a touch screen when you're soaking wet is not it's not great i don't recommend that i don't
01:38:53 ◼ ► remember what the text of it is exactly but carrie will often recall and i think she has it saved of
01:38:59 ◼ ► uh a set of messages that i tried to send her i think by email from my apple watch while i was
01:39:07 ◼ ► swimming and so like i was thinking of a thing and then i paused at the side of the pool and like was
01:39:13 ◼ ► dictating and was having to be like no like and it was just like dictating like no i didn't mean
01:39:18 ◼ ► to say that i am doing this while swimming like it's like a whole thing that just went on forever
01:39:23 ◼ ► because yeah so these things are funny uh sam asks whenever apple releases a proper mass consumer
01:39:29 ◼ ► headset whether that's the rumoured 2023 one or a future version how do you think these will be
01:39:35 ◼ ► featured in apple stores do you think they'll have test headsets out for customers to try on in store
01:39:42 ◼ ► do manage demonstrations or leave customers with no ability to try them out before buying
01:39:48 ◼ ► uh great question i think there'll be some video loops in the stores showing what it's like i think
01:39:54 ◼ ► that there will be hardware in the store it'll be a little like the apple watch try-on thing
01:39:57 ◼ ► where you will be able to do try it on and they'll have a you know a cloth and they'll wipe it down
01:40:02 ◼ ► remind me jason or someone in the chat the original apple watch did you have to book a try-on
01:40:12 ◼ ► maybe i think you had to book try-ons so i think so that'll be what it is probably is you'll book
01:40:20 ◼ ► you'll book your try-on experience and what it'll be is it's going to be a like a if not a video loop
01:40:26 ◼ ► like an app that is always running that is an environment for you to be in or maybe a couple
01:40:33 ◼ ► different environments that it cycles between but it'll be like a super controlled do this now do
01:40:39 ◼ ► that kind of thing but i do think they will do it because they're going to want to have people
01:40:43 ◼ ► experience it just got saying yes there were you booked they had some walk-in appointments but
01:40:50 ◼ ► booking was the preferred thing and yes i expect that's going to be the case right you will
01:40:53 ◼ ► you will arrange a try-on and you will go probably just to bigger stores maybe and i think that was
01:40:59 ◼ ► a thing at first too and you will go and you will try on and then make your purchasing decision
01:41:13 ◼ ► going to need to be an important part of this like yeah for sure that's why they've got apple
01:41:20 ◼ ► stores everywhere right yes they want to reach people with a product like this they're really
01:41:23 ◼ ► going to people are going to want to see it and they a lot of them most of them are never tried
01:41:27 ◼ ► a vr anything before and they're going to want to do it and you know and we'll see you know we'll
01:41:33 ◼ ► see how that goes but yeah i'm sure there is a team inside apple retail uh or who is working with
01:41:40 ◼ ► the people working on this product of like how are we going to sell this thing in stores you know
01:41:46 ◼ ► this reminds me a little bit of the conversations that people have had in the past about TVs and cars
01:41:53 ◼ ► but more TVs of like how will you equip the apple store to deal with this and what i'm thinking of
01:42:02 ◼ ► here is just in general virtual reality requires physical space right it does and so if you are
01:42:10 ◼ ► going to want to have multiple try-on stations right like you know you're going to have like
01:42:15 ◼ ► be like four six people at a time using these things you can't just have one at a time like
01:42:20 ◼ ► the physical space requirement of that is going to be difficult for them in some apple store locations
01:42:27 ◼ ► now i can imagine for me in london the coven garden apple store for example which at a time
01:42:33 ◼ ► i don't know if it still is was the by square footage biggest apple store in the world is huge
01:42:44 ◼ ► which is just around the corner i don't think it could that store is not huge it's big it's very
01:42:50 ◼ ► big but it's not mammoth but it is always packed full of people and so like i'm intrigued like how
01:42:57 ◼ ► will they manage this they'd be like a little area of the store which is kind of roped off and they're
01:43:04 ◼ ► like you know like in a way right so like you can't just bump into someone who's currently in
01:43:09 ◼ ► a vr experience like i'm really intrigued to see how they will manage this without it dominating
01:43:18 ◼ ► the apple stores that they put them in or maybe they want that i don't know i i think you keep
01:43:24 ◼ ► it tightly controlled and it's it and it's limited and it's a loop or whatever app that is not uh
01:43:31 ◼ ► that you're not going to be walking around or anything you're just going to be turning around
01:43:34 ◼ ► and they're going to have like they're going to figure out what the radius is and they're going
01:43:37 ◼ ► to put it in a place where it's not in the way and like i i think that they have to think through all
01:43:41 ◼ ► of those issues because there's look you know as i say like they can put it in bigger stores
01:43:46 ◼ ► but eventually it needs to be in every store like if this is going to be a thing that they're going
01:43:50 ◼ ► to make as a product you know for everyone my local mall store right they're going to have to
01:43:56 ◼ ► put it at like they do with the apple watch they're gonna have to put it at a table and
01:43:59 ◼ ► they're gonna have to have people there and like i said i think it's going to be more like they're
01:44:04 ◼ ► going to have them tethered and so they can't obviously go much past right standing by the table
01:44:10 ◼ ► and the whole thing is going to be really more like you're going to face front and turn around
01:44:14 ◼ ► like with your head but you're not going to turn around with your body and you're not going to take
01:44:18 ◼ ► any steps and that's not what what it is there are a few people in discord talking about the fact
01:44:23 ◼ ► that some of the bigger newer stores have these rooms that you can have like they do experiences
01:44:27 ◼ ► in i don't think that's going to be the case like they want people to see people using them like
01:44:39 ◼ ► like they will want other customers to see people having a fun giggly time with the headset on and
01:44:45 ◼ ► be like what is that thing right like they do not want to make the headset like a please sir come
01:44:51 ◼ ► over here into the special room and like we'll close the door on you and no one will see you
01:44:57 ◼ ► right like they want this to be a thing which other people are seeing right which is why like
01:45:04 ◼ ► that's like the the it's one of the reasons i expect that the apple watch triumph thing looked
01:45:09 ◼ ► the way it did right we're gonna get this thing out and here's all these bands choose the band
01:45:15 ◼ ► like it's it is a experience for you but also for people that aren't you to look at and be like
01:45:22 ◼ ► what is that i i want to know what that is because that looks interesting you know what do you agree
01:45:42 ◼ ► last question today comes from brian do you think apple would eventually rename iCloud to something
01:45:48 ◼ ► like apple cloud or is it one of the i names that will likely stick around forever like i mac and
01:45:54 ◼ ► iphone what a question i i think it'll stay unless they have some real reason to change it yeah i
01:46:03 ◼ ► think i think it is like i mac and iphone right it's just it is the name of the product and i
01:46:09 ◼ ► don't think there was ever a case where they were really trying to beat every i product out of the
01:46:15 ◼ ► out of the product line or you know i i think it was more we should not default to i for products
01:46:23 ◼ ► i think that that's what they were going for so like the iphone and the ipad i think are not going
01:46:26 ◼ ► to become apple phone and apple pad ever and i i think iCloud probably won't either um but they're
01:46:33 ◼ ► not going to make new products with that right it would have been i watch but it's apple watch
01:46:37 ◼ ► apple apple is the default now but i don't think they're going to necessarily go back and erase
01:46:42 ◼ ► every other product that starts with i i did have a couple of friends a couple of weeks ago and one
01:46:47 ◼ ► of them one of my friends was referencing how he doesn't really know how to use his i watch and
01:46:53 ◼ ► neither does he really use his i watch and me and my other friend were like seriously is that is that
01:46:58 ◼ ► what you think it's called like how do you own one but you think it's called the i watch and that was
01:47:04 ◼ ► just like a very wild thing for me that like in his mind that was i watch like apple watch was i
01:47:10 ◼ ► watch that was what it was called and he would never have thought it to be anything else and i
01:47:17 ◼ ► could not get my head around that as like uh how is this latched on to you but never left but yeah
01:47:24 ◼ ► it is funny to me that iCloud is a part of apple one right like it's just like yeah it's just here
01:47:30 ◼ ► there's nothing we can do about it it's called iCloud if you would like to send in your feedback
01:47:37 ◼ ► follow-up or your questions for ask upgrade go to upgrade feedback.com and you can send that in
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01:47:49 ◼ ► you can categorize it thank you so much to everybody that sends in their questions every
01:47:54 ◼ ► week we appreciate you until next week's episode you can check out Jason's writing over at sixcolors.com
01:47:59 ◼ ► and here he's podcast at the incomparable.com and here on relay FM you can listen to my shows
01:48:10 ◼ ► mastodon you can find Jason on zeppelin.flights as @jsnell and you can find me on mike.social as
01:48:17 ◼ ► @imike you can also follow upgrade on relay FM.social as @upgrade thank you to our members who
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