446: Oooh Draaamaa!


00:00:00   (upbeat music)

00:00:02   Hello and welcome to episode 446

00:00:09   of the CONNECTED podcast from Rela FM.

00:00:11   I still do not know how to introduce this show.

00:00:14   My name is Mike Hurley.

00:00:15   This episode is brought to you by FITBOD and Elektrik

00:00:19   and I'm joined by Federico Vittucci.

00:00:21   Ciao, Federico.

00:00:22   - Ciao, Mike.

00:00:23   I like the intro.

00:00:25   The CONNECTED podcast from Rela FM.

00:00:27   I felt very professional.

00:00:30   I like it.

00:00:31   I like it.

00:00:32   Professional but not too serious, yes.

00:00:35   - This one, it's just not in my flow, right?

00:00:38   The Discord's already calling me out.

00:00:40   Like, you know, you used to host this show

00:00:43   every single week.

00:00:44   You host other shows.

00:00:45   Like, those intros, they're just like,

00:00:47   I don't even think about them, right?

00:00:49   Like when I'm doing the intro for Upgraded,

00:00:51   the intro for The Pan-Addict,

00:00:52   that's just flowing out of me.

00:00:54   Like, there's no thought going into that.

00:00:55   It's just all going off the dome.

00:00:57   For this show, it's like it's not normal for me, right?

00:01:00   To have everything ready for CONNECTED all the time.

00:01:03   Like, I don't know how it goes

00:01:04   and so sometimes this is how it goes.

00:01:06   - Well, I think it's because we do the rotation thing.

00:01:09   - Exactly, so it's like I'm not used to it.

00:01:12   And also, I'm usually surprised by the introduction.

00:01:14   I forget that I'm even doing it

00:01:15   and then everyone goes silent for a second

00:01:17   and then I'm supposed to start speaking.

00:01:19   It's very strange. - Yes, yes.

00:01:21   - Not a fan.

00:01:22   - Well, you did a good job today.

00:01:23   - Thank you so much.

00:01:25   - No Steven today?

00:01:26   He's taken the episode off.

00:01:28   Should we instruct people to do anything

00:01:31   or should we have them leave him alone?

00:01:33   - I don't know, don't leave him alone.

00:01:36   - Don't leave him alone.

00:01:37   - No, no, no, no, no.

00:01:39   So typically we've asked,

00:01:42   so we used to ask people to tweet at Steven.

00:01:45   We cannot ask that anymore.

00:01:47   So what do you say?

00:01:51   Post?

00:01:52   Reply?

00:01:53   Write?

00:01:54   Write to Steven, send--

00:01:56   - Send a--

00:01:57   public post on Mastodon.

00:02:03   - Yes, yes.

00:02:05   With, I got this, I got this.

00:02:07   Send a public Mastodon post to Steven

00:02:10   with the first Mac,

00:02:14   the name of the model of the first Mac you got

00:02:19   and in which year.

00:02:20   So for example, I would say MacBook Pro 2008.

00:02:25   So, you know, tell Steven, what was your first Mac and when?

00:02:30   - What I would like as an addendum to that

00:02:33   is I think this would be more confusing to him

00:02:35   is if you put the year in like parentheses.

00:02:40   - Oh yes, yes.

00:02:42   - Because that will look like a model year, right?

00:02:45   So Steven is ISMH at ISMH on eWorld.com

00:02:50   eWorld.social, so you can go find him

00:02:53   and you just send him the name of the first Mac

00:02:56   that you owned, used, whatever,

00:02:58   or just like the name of the first Mac.

00:03:00   Like you interpret that however you like

00:03:02   and then put the year that you first used or owned this Mac

00:03:05   but put it in parentheses, please.

00:03:07   - So for example, to give you some examples,

00:03:09   I would do MacBook Pro parentheses 2008.

00:03:13   - Yeah, and I would be like iMac 2005, I think it was 2005.

00:03:17   - Yes, but you gotta use the parentheses

00:03:18   so we can confuse Steven to an extent.

00:03:21   - iMac parentheses 2005, close parentheses.

00:03:25   We call them brackets in England.

00:03:28   - I know, I know.

00:03:29   - What do you call them?

00:03:30   - Parenthesis.

00:03:31   - In Italian?

00:03:32   - In Italian parentheses.

00:03:34   - Oh.

00:03:34   - So see in Italian, so in Italian it's parentheses,

00:03:39   which is like the same word without the letter S at the end.

00:03:44   But what's weird about how we call them in Italian

00:03:47   is that all kinds of brackets,

00:03:50   we say it's a type of parentheses.

00:03:53   So for example, the square bracket is a square parentheses

00:03:57   and the curly bracket is a curly parentheses.

00:04:01   So it's parentheses, parentheses quadra,

00:04:03   and parentheses grapha.

00:04:05   - Right, but as you can imagine, we say brackets,

00:04:08   square brackets, curly brackets.

00:04:09   - Oh, nice, okay.

00:04:11   So you use a different word but the same semantic approach.

00:04:15   - But I don't think that's how it is in America, right?

00:04:17   They say square bracket, right?

00:04:19   They don't say square parentheses, they should though.

00:04:21   - No, they should.

00:04:23   - But square parentheses, curly parentheses.

00:04:26   - Curly parentheses, yes, that'd be nice.

00:04:28   - I like it.

00:04:29   Follow up time.

00:04:32   - Follow up, okay.

00:04:33   - So Paul in the Discord found the car brochure

00:04:37   that was sitting on top of that pile of brochures

00:04:40   that Steve Jobs had in his office.

00:04:42   So it was in like a basket.

00:04:44   - Oh my God.

00:04:44   - And he found it.

00:04:45   It was for the Mercedes E-Class,

00:04:47   which to me feels like the most 2005 vehicle

00:04:51   that any human being could ever own.

00:04:53   - Oh my God, I used to see this car.

00:04:56   - Everywhere.

00:04:58   - Oh my God, this is such a boring choice, Steve.

00:05:02   - But not in 2005 though.

00:05:04   Like back then, this was like the car,

00:05:07   like the Mercedes E-Class.

00:05:09   Also this guy's suit needs some tailoring

00:05:12   on this front page.

00:05:13   - Oh my, yes.

00:05:13   - It looks like he's just wearing a cardboard box.

00:05:16   - Man, look at that sleeve.

00:05:18   - Yeah, this guy needs,

00:05:19   he has some serious tailoring work to be done.

00:05:21   I don't know if this is like a 2005 thing or not, but like-

00:05:25   - Maybe it was the fashion back then.

00:05:26   - Maybe, I mean, 'cause so was his car

00:05:28   and the car looks like it could do with some tailoring too.

00:05:32   - How did Paul find the car brochure?

00:05:36   Like of all of this, like the car is so boring,

00:05:39   but the workflow for finding this is what fascinates me here.

00:05:43   - So I don't, Stephen put this in the show notes,

00:05:46   so I can't find the exact message, but I did see it go by

00:05:49   and Paul said that they were able to search

00:05:51   like a database of this information.

00:05:54   - Interesting, okay.

00:05:55   - There is like a car brochure database

00:05:58   somewhere in the world.

00:05:59   - Of course there is, of course, okay.

00:06:03   - And they found it that way,

00:06:05   but I don't know how, like the process of like

00:06:09   how they found it, you know what I mean?

00:06:11   Like, because there's still quite a lot of work

00:06:15   that would have needed to be done,

00:06:16   you would assume to be able to match it up.

00:06:18   Maybe they worked out, it was a Mercedes or something.

00:06:21   Maybe Paul had a 2005 Mercedes Benz E-Class

00:06:24   at some point in their life and they were able to-

00:06:26   - Maybe Paul just saw the brochure and said,

00:06:30   "Yeah, that used to be my car."

00:06:33   I remember that. - Exactly.

00:06:34   - Yeah, we can't know, okay, interesting.

00:06:38   - It's from Auto Brochure,

00:06:39   oh, that's like the website that we're linked to,

00:06:41   autobrochures.com, like that's what's in the show notes.

00:06:44   - Oh, that's the database.

00:06:45   - That's the database of old car brochures.

00:06:47   I found it in Discord and they give

00:06:51   absolutely zero information more as to how they found this.

00:06:56   So that could be future follow-up for the show.

00:06:59   You could write in and tell us how you found it, you know?

00:07:03   And also, oh, somebody also sent in to us

00:07:06   that this photo shoot of Steve Jobs' office,

00:07:11   the one that we have all seen before,

00:07:13   is part of a larger photo shoot

00:07:15   that was taken by Diana Walker.

00:07:18   And all of these images are on Getty Images.

00:07:23   And I've got a link in the show notes to that as well.

00:07:26   There's some interesting photos in here.

00:07:28   There's one where he's sitting very uncomfortably

00:07:31   in an outdoor chair with some questionable sandals on.

00:07:36   But there's one image particularly, right,

00:07:39   which is an image of Steve,

00:07:41   and he's smiling, looking at the camera,

00:07:43   and he has his hands in that kind of praying thing.

00:07:45   This is an incredibly famous photo, right?

00:07:48   - Yeah, it's a famous photo of Steve, yes.

00:07:50   I also love the one that I'm trying to paste

00:07:53   in the Discord of Steve on the phone

00:07:58   on what looks like a very ancient cell phone.

00:08:02   Oh, you know, one of those with the little antenna on top.

00:08:07   I assume that's a cell phone.

00:08:09   It's either a cell phone or a cordless--

00:08:11   - No, that's a cell phone.

00:08:12   That's got the dynamics of a cell phone.

00:08:15   - Yeah, I think you can see the battery,

00:08:17   you can see the keypad in the reflection on the window.

00:08:21   You can see the keyboard on the phone.

00:08:23   And it's just, I don't know,

00:08:26   I guess it's just a little bit odd

00:08:29   to see Steve talking on an old cell phone

00:08:33   instead of an iPhone.

00:08:34   - The whole photo shoot's weird, really,

00:08:36   because it's like, just, I don't know,

00:08:38   there's just something about seeing him do all these poses.

00:08:40   It's just like--

00:08:41   - Yeah, yeah.

00:08:43   - And I like that, obviously in his house,

00:08:45   and really they're only in three places,

00:08:47   it's like outside in this one area,

00:08:49   and in the office, that's it, no more, no less.

00:08:52   And I was reminded, while I'm getting images,

00:08:54   while we're talking about getting images,

00:08:56   I was reminded of the two greatest photos

00:08:59   committed to getting images in all of history.

00:09:01   - Of course.

00:09:02   - Which, I was wondering about this

00:09:04   when I put this in the show notes today.

00:09:06   If maybe some newer listeners don't know about this.

00:09:10   - Oh, well, we should contextualize that.

00:09:12   - So this is 2018, WWDC 2018,

00:09:17   with a showing of watchOS, whatever it is.

00:09:21   And I genuinely don't know,

00:09:24   like this version of watchOS got the podcast app.

00:09:27   - Five or six, maybe?

00:09:29   - And the old version of the connected artwork

00:09:33   was used in the presentation,

00:09:38   much to our surprise for the amount that it got featured.

00:09:42   So much so that it became like the image of the podcast app

00:09:47   was just our artwork on stage

00:09:54   for a significant portion of the presentation,

00:09:57   including photos of Tim Cook standing

00:10:00   with the connected artwork,

00:10:02   just like almost like Bill Gates over Steve Jobs.

00:10:07   You know that famous image?

00:10:09   I don't know if we've ever made that link before,

00:10:12   but looking at these images, how it feels,

00:10:15   it's like the connected podcast is looming over Tim.

00:10:18   And these made it to Getty images.

00:10:20   And I bought the rights to these images

00:10:23   and I have a fracture of them.

00:10:26   - Which is a very expensive rights.

00:10:29   - It's no joke.

00:10:30   It's no joke.

00:10:32   And there is, you know,

00:10:33   I maybe do have questions to ask of Getty images

00:10:37   about copyright,

00:10:38   'cause I know I didn't tell Getty images

00:10:40   they could take a picture of our artwork,

00:10:42   but I think honestly Apple probably wins out in this one.

00:10:47   - Yeah, probably.

00:10:49   But yeah, I remember being in the audience

00:10:53   during the keynote and freaking out.

00:10:55   And I believe, I want to say it was probably

00:11:00   the same keynote where I got both this and shortcuts

00:11:05   announced in 2018.

00:11:08   So it's quite a day for me.

00:11:10   - This was the particularly weird one

00:11:12   where you were in the audience,

00:11:14   I was in a hotel room, Steven was at home.

00:11:17   That was a very strange keynote morning

00:11:22   where this happened and none of us were together.

00:11:26   - Yeah, yeah.

00:11:26   And there were people texting us

00:11:28   and telling us about it independently.

00:11:32   And we were also freaking out in our iMessage group.

00:11:35   Yeah, it was a good day.

00:11:36   Was a very good day.

00:11:37   - And I know we told this story before,

00:11:39   but the fun thing was two weeks before this,

00:11:41   we were like, you know what?

00:11:42   We should renew the artwork.

00:11:44   We should refresh the artwork

00:11:46   because it was one of the original pieces

00:11:48   and was maybe on the simple side of our art.

00:11:51   And then we were like,

00:11:52   well, we can't do that for a while.

00:11:53   And then we held it off for some time.

00:11:56   And now you have the more kind of modern 3D

00:12:00   colorful artwork that we have today.

00:12:02   Print editions of "Make Something Wonderful",

00:12:07   the Steve Jobs archive book,

00:12:09   are being listed on eBay for hundreds and hundreds

00:12:12   and hundreds of dollars.

00:12:14   And I would just like to publicly call out many people,

00:12:17   friends of mine who have been sending me images

00:12:19   of their books and just rubbing it in my face.

00:12:21   I still really want one, but it looks great.

00:12:25   But I mean, we could get one if you're willing to pay,

00:12:28   I see one here for buy it now for two and a half thousand

00:12:31   dollars, would you like to?

00:12:32   - Probably not.

00:12:34   I mean, I can buy a new gaming PC for that money.

00:12:38   - You could, I mean, well,

00:12:39   you could buy a lot of things for that money.

00:12:41   - You can buy a lot of things.

00:12:41   I just thought of gaming PC, I don't know why,

00:12:44   but I mean, I would spend, I don't know,

00:12:49   couple hundred maybe to have it.

00:12:52   - I mean, there are a lot of the one here, Federico,

00:12:54   for that kind of money,

00:12:55   but there it's bids.

00:12:57   If you want to do the buy it now,

00:12:58   then you're in some trouble financially.

00:13:01   - Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:13:03   I don't know why this isn't follow up,

00:13:07   but I still want to mention it.

00:13:09   If you're using Spotify, for a Spotify user on your iPhone,

00:13:14   you now have the ability to pin a Spotify widget

00:13:17   on the lock screen.

00:13:19   The funny thing is, and I actually posted about this

00:13:23   on Mastodon, so the Spotify quote unquote widget

00:13:26   is literally just a Spotify icon

00:13:29   that you can place on your lock screen

00:13:31   and it launches the Spotify app.

00:13:34   It does nothing else.

00:13:36   There's, it's just an icon launcher.

00:13:39   You can probably make your own

00:13:41   with the other thousand icon launchers

00:13:44   for the lock screen on the App Store,

00:13:46   but that's still one widget more than Apple Music.

00:13:52   So, Apple Music doesn't have any widgets

00:13:56   on the lock screen.

00:13:59   Spotify has one, but it's very sad.

00:14:02   - Like, this is why there isn't an Apple Music widget

00:14:06   on the lock screen, 'cause like, what is that?

00:14:08   Who needs this?

00:14:09   - Well, okay, so this is boring and unnecessary,

00:14:14   but still, you can get creative with these widgets.

00:14:19   I mean, I don't know, make a widget that--

00:14:20   - For music?

00:14:21   - Yes, make a widget that opens a playlist for me.

00:14:24   Make a widget that opens, I don't know,

00:14:26   an album or a section of Apple Music.

00:14:29   - They would tell you, just like, go make that with,

00:14:32   can you do that with shortcuts?

00:14:33   - No.

00:14:34   - No, 'cause you can't do shortcuts on a lock screen.

00:14:36   - Yeah, yeah, so you see, it's just,

00:14:41   it's a sad situation all around,

00:14:44   but it's more sad for Apple Music,

00:14:48   because at least Spotify tried in a bad way

00:14:53   with a questionable result, but at least they did something.

00:14:57   And I guess, broadly speaking,

00:14:59   broadly speaking, Apple Music has a problem

00:15:02   with widgets on iOS, and I wanna believe

00:15:06   that's something they're gonna do for iOS 17.

00:15:09   We're now reached that time of year when we're saying,

00:15:11   oh, maybe that's gonna be fixed in iOS 17,

00:15:14   and we come up with a list of 30 different items,

00:15:16   and Apple is gonna do five, but really,

00:15:19   I do believe that it's about time to have better,

00:15:22   more and better widgets, both on the lock screen

00:15:26   and on the home screen.

00:15:27   I think the fact that Apple Music on the home screen

00:15:31   still doesn't have an interactive now playing widget,

00:15:35   which it does offer on Android,

00:15:38   I think that the lack of that widget on iOS is ridiculous.

00:15:42   - I think if the rumors are true,

00:15:44   that there will be interactive widgets for iOS 17,

00:15:48   that might be why there isn't anything good right now,

00:15:50   because realistically, a music widget is best

00:15:54   when it is interactive, right?

00:15:57   - Yeah, yes, yes.

00:15:58   - Just an image of, a widget of like,

00:16:02   hey, here's some music, you know?

00:16:06   I'm not sure how good that is,

00:16:08   but one where you can play pause,

00:16:11   maybe skim about a little bit, that's better.

00:16:14   - I don't know if you caught this,

00:16:16   well, I don't wanna call it drama,

00:16:17   but this little super mini excess-sized controversy.

00:16:22   You must have seen, I mean,

00:16:27   you did the Rumor Roundup with Jason.

00:16:29   You've seen MacRumors lately post all these details

00:16:32   from this leaker in the MacRumors forums, right?

00:16:35   - Yes, I've been, yes,

00:16:37   they've been filling up Rumor Roundup

00:16:38   over the last couple weeks of this stuff.

00:16:40   - Yes, and did you see last night,

00:16:42   I believe on Mastodon, Mark Gurman tell MacRumors,

00:16:46   a lot of information I've seen from this person

00:16:48   is just incorrect.

00:16:50   - Ooh, I did not see that.

00:16:51   - Yeah, yeah, I saw that. - Ooh, drama, love it.

00:16:55   - I saw that, so I wanna see what happens on that front,

00:16:58   because this person on the MacRumors forums

00:17:00   has been posting a lot of info.

00:17:03   It seems like it's all happening all at once.

00:17:05   And then I just saw it,

00:17:07   and it was actually like a reply from Mark to somebody else.

00:17:11   I don't remember who.

00:17:13   - I don't see this on Mark's Mastodon.

00:17:16   - Was it on Twitter?

00:17:18   Because I still keep an eye on Twitter from time to time,

00:17:20   even though I don't tweet.

00:17:22   - I don't think Mark is very active on Mastodon.

00:17:24   I think he had a pretty bad experience.

00:17:25   - Did I dream this?

00:17:26   Because it's also possible that I dreamt this.

00:17:29   - No, here it is on Twitter.

00:17:30   Many of the details I've seen from this account are not true.

00:17:34   - Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's it, that's it, yes.

00:17:38   - And then Joe Rossignol, a friend of the show,

00:17:40   says which ones just so we can update if necessary.

00:17:43   And then no reply.

00:17:45   - And then no reply.

00:17:46   - Dun, dun, dun.

00:17:48   - Yes, it's like, wait for my newsletter.

00:17:51   - Yeah, I'm gonna power on and then you'll find out.

00:17:54   - Yeah.

00:17:55   So we'll see what happens with all these iOS rumors,

00:17:59   but this is something worth keeping an eye on.

00:18:01   Anyway, yes, so Spotify on the lock screen,

00:18:06   which by the way,

00:18:09   on the Pro show we spoke about,

00:18:11   where can people, first of all,

00:18:12   where can people get the pro version of Connected?

00:18:15   - Very good pro version today,

00:18:17   where Federico talks about his productivity apps,

00:18:21   his to-do apps that he's using right now.

00:18:23   You can go to getconnectedpro.co

00:18:26   and you can sign up.

00:18:27   $5 a month or $50 a year.

00:18:29   You get longer ad-free versions

00:18:31   every single week of this show,

00:18:33   plus a ton of other benefits of being a Relay FM member.

00:18:36   If you ever hear us say from the Discord,

00:18:38   the Discord is a Relay FM member perk,

00:18:40   you get access to that if you sign up for Connected Pro

00:18:43   and you help support this show at getconnectedpro.co.

00:18:46   - Yes, thank you, Mike.

00:18:48   As part of my sort of,

00:18:52   I called it teaching the wilderness,

00:18:54   like the past six months of my life,

00:18:56   reevaluating all the things I use,

00:18:59   both hardware and software and services.

00:19:01   I've tried a lot of things

00:19:04   and one of the aspects that I'm still uncertain about,

00:19:09   unable to make a decision,

00:19:11   is the eternal debate, Spotify or Apple Music.

00:19:16   I've been using Spotify since January 1st.

00:19:20   I don't love Spotify.

00:19:24   See, that's the thing, I don't love Spotify.

00:19:26   I don't love the app.

00:19:28   I don't love the lyrics,

00:19:30   the way that real-time lyrics work.

00:19:32   I don't love that it doesn't have lossless

00:19:35   and high-res lossless like Apple Music.

00:19:37   I don't love that it keeps showing me podcasts

00:19:43   I should listen to,

00:19:44   but the search and the recommendations

00:19:48   and the playlists are excellent.

00:19:52   And then of course,

00:19:53   everything else about Apple Music I prefer

00:19:55   and I like better.

00:19:56   I like the design, I like the focus on music.

00:20:00   I like that I can use third-party clients like Marvis,

00:20:03   for example.

00:20:04   I'm still unable to decide here.

00:20:07   I don't know what else is more important for me.

00:20:10   Is it the intelligence and the recommendations

00:20:13   and the fast search

00:20:16   or is Apple Music's everything else?

00:20:20   We'll see about this.

00:20:22   I don't know.

00:20:22   Honestly, right now I'm alternating between the two

00:20:27   and I still don't know what is better for me.

00:20:31   - I feel like one of the simple things to Spotify

00:20:34   is just like, do you want new music?

00:20:37   And I know some people might think that is a stupid question

00:20:40   that I've just asked.

00:20:41   - No, it's not.

00:20:42   It's not.

00:20:42   - Right, no, I think people would think it's stupid

00:20:44   in the other sense of like, well, why wouldn't you?

00:20:47   - Hmm. - Right?

00:20:49   Well, I am in the like, I don't, I'm good.

00:20:52   Like I got my bands and then I have you and Jon

00:20:57   and my wife, Idina.

00:20:59   That's where all my music comes from.

00:21:01   See what bands I already know

00:21:02   or these three people in my life

00:21:04   that tell me I should listen to something.

00:21:07   I am in my mid 30s, like I'm good, right?

00:21:11   Like I have enough.

00:21:13   I'm good, I'm good with music, you know?

00:21:15   And little bits pop in every now and then.

00:21:18   I saw it as a new Foo Fighters album coming in June.

00:21:20   Saw that today, so I'm like, great,

00:21:23   well, that's gonna go into my library when that comes out.

00:21:25   You know, like that's good for me.

00:21:27   But if you're like you or like Jon or like Idina

00:21:31   or probably many of the people who listens to the show,

00:21:33   you want new music and that's what Spotify is really good at.

00:21:36   Like really, really, really, really good at.

00:21:38   I don't, and I know Apple Music has these features

00:21:43   but like it's not as good, right?

00:21:46   Like 'cause this is Spotify's entire business.

00:21:48   It's like discover.

00:21:50   - Yes, I don't know what I'll choose, honestly.

00:21:55   If I were to guess probably Apple Music

00:21:58   because I can still use a bunch of other tools

00:22:01   for music discovery, whether it's reading music websites

00:22:05   or using Music Harbor and like all these other utilities

00:22:08   for discovering music.

00:22:10   But we'll see, I don't know, I don't know.

00:22:13   - Did you see, you obviously saw.

00:22:15   - I saw this.

00:22:16   - The images of Tim Cook with the Mac SE.

00:22:20   - It's such a lovely,

00:22:22   I've seen both the images and the video.

00:22:25   - There's a video?

00:22:26   - There's a video version of this.

00:22:28   - I have not seen the video of this.

00:22:30   - Oh, let me find this.

00:22:31   - Find this video for me.

00:22:32   - Did I mark this as a favorite anywhere?

00:22:37   - Is this another dream or is there actually a video?

00:22:39   - No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

00:22:40   This is actually.

00:22:41   - So this was at the opening of a new store,

00:22:46   the Apple BKC store in Mumbai.

00:22:50   It's another very beautiful Apple store.

00:22:52   Apple put out like a newsroom post about it

00:22:55   and it is just again, once again,

00:22:57   a stunning piece of architecture

00:23:00   that they have been able to pull together

00:23:02   with this beautiful new Apple store.

00:23:04   But at this Apple store opening,

00:23:05   Tim Cook was there as he tends to be,

00:23:08   you know, on these little tours around the place.

00:23:10   And a customer brought a Macintosh SE

00:23:14   to the store for Tim to sign.

00:23:16   And Tim Cook's face when he sees it

00:23:20   is absolutely incredible.

00:23:23   I saw somebody say, I don't remember,

00:23:25   "Oh, oh, this video is incredible."

00:23:27   - The video is perfect.

00:23:28   - This video is so good.

00:23:30   - Yeah, it's a proper CNBC video.

00:23:33   It's like a TV video.

00:23:34   - And I saw someone say that like,

00:23:37   this is maybe the most, like the most emotion

00:23:40   they've ever seen Tim Cook give.

00:23:43   And I agree.

00:23:44   What I like about this is like,

00:23:46   he seems genuinely excited about the fact

00:23:49   that this guy bought a Macintosh SE.

00:23:52   I think I saw John Goober say like,

00:23:53   "These things weigh like 18 pounds."

00:23:55   Just like, "Oh dude, I've just been carrying this thing

00:23:58   around all day standing in a line or whatever."

00:24:01   This is so great.

00:24:02   Like, oh, I love this.

00:24:03   This video is excellent.

00:24:05   Tim Cook is a real sport about this one, I think.

00:24:08   Like really like gives this guy a moment, right?

00:24:12   Like we're watching this video now,

00:24:14   he's like taking pictures with him.

00:24:16   Like, this is fantastic.

00:24:17   This is very heartwarming.

00:24:18   I love Tim Cook.

00:24:20   What can I say?

00:24:21   I think I saw someone say,

00:24:23   I saw this on MassaDon I think recently

00:24:25   that like Tim Cook is now the longest serving CEO.

00:24:30   - Yeah, that was a couple of days ago.

00:24:32   I wanna say 4,500 something days.

00:24:37   - Yeah.

00:24:38   - What's that in like 12 years or something like that?

00:24:42   - Something like that, yeah.

00:24:43   - Yeah.

00:24:44   I just, I would like to offer you a mental image, Mike.

00:24:50   - Give it to me.

00:24:51   - Try and compare in your mind this Tim Cook face

00:24:56   with Tim Cook waving the checkered flag at the F1 race.

00:25:02   - He didn't wanna do it, you know?

00:25:04   Like he did it, he clearly did it.

00:25:05   And I don't think anybody checked with him beforehand.

00:25:08   He wasn't happy about it.

00:25:09   - That's the range of Tim Cook's expressions for you.

00:25:13   - They should have had him throw an SE onto the track.

00:25:16   Maybe that would have done it, you know?

00:25:18   Like that's what he wanted.

00:25:21   - Just to let you know, passionate ones,

00:25:23   even just from the people listening live,

00:25:25   Steven has just sent us a text message saying,

00:25:27   "What have you done to my mentions?"

00:25:28   So please keep it up. - Perfect.

00:25:30   - Remember the name of your first Mac,

00:25:33   the year that you got it in parentheses, the regular kind.

00:25:38   - Yes.

00:25:39   - This episode is brought to you by our friends

00:25:41   over at FitBud.

00:25:42   Getting fitter is one of those things

00:25:43   that can have really great knock on effects

00:25:45   in other areas of your life

00:25:46   that you might otherwise not expect.

00:25:48   Like having more energy, sleeping better, for me,

00:25:51   just doing some strength training really helped combat

00:25:54   and like tackle my RSI pains

00:25:56   and now I can play video games as much as I like.

00:25:58   But all of this stuff can be really hard

00:26:00   when you're thinking about where to get started.

00:26:02   And that's why I'm pleased to let you know FitBud

00:26:04   is both an easy and affordable way

00:26:06   to build a fitness plan that is just for you.

00:26:09   It really is just for you.

00:26:10   FitBud has spent a ton of time and effort

00:26:12   building an algorithm to learn about you,

00:26:15   your goals and your training ability

00:26:18   and will create a custom dynamic program

00:26:20   based on your experience and any equipment

00:26:22   that you have available to you.

00:26:24   This is all kept within an app that makes it so easy

00:26:27   to learn how to perform every exercise

00:26:29   with the use of over 1,400 HD video tutorials

00:26:34   shot from multiple angles to make sure

00:26:36   that learning every single exercise is a breeze.

00:26:39   This also integrates with your Apple Watch,

00:26:41   Wear a Smart Watch and apps like Strava, Fitbit

00:26:43   and Apple Health to help you give that full picture

00:26:46   of your fitness training.

00:26:47   Everybody's path is different,

00:26:49   which is why FitBud uses this data

00:26:50   to make sure they customize things exactly to suit you.

00:26:54   FitBud's powerful technology understands

00:26:57   your strength training ability,

00:26:58   study your past workouts and adapt

00:27:00   to your available gym equipment.

00:27:02   Your training plan will maximize fitness gains as well

00:27:04   by intelligently varying intensity

00:27:06   and volume between sessions.

00:27:08   Because if you overwork some muscles

00:27:10   or underwork some muscles,

00:27:11   this can negatively impact your overall results.

00:27:14   So FitBud will track your muscle fatigue

00:27:16   and recovery to design a well-balanced

00:27:18   workout routine overall.

00:27:20   Personal fitness shouldn't be about competing with others.

00:27:23   That never worked for me,

00:27:24   but looking to other people and trying to replicate them

00:27:26   didn't work, I didn't get the results that I wanted

00:27:29   and/or it's just not like a great way

00:27:30   to think about your fitness.

00:27:31   What you want is something that will work for you,

00:27:33   that's when it sticks and you see the results

00:27:35   that you're looking for.

00:27:36   And FitBud is a great path for that,

00:27:37   going from body weight workouts

00:27:40   to kind of advancing through to different equipment

00:27:42   that you might get access to.

00:27:43   It really is fantastic.

00:27:45   Personalized training of this quality can be expensive,

00:27:47   but FitBud is just $12.99 a month or $79.99 a year,

00:27:51   but you can get a massive 25% off your membership

00:27:54   by signing up at fitbud.me/connected.

00:27:57   That really makes that year a fantastic deal.

00:27:59   Go now and get your customized fitness plan

00:28:02   at fitbud.me/connected

00:28:04   and you will get 25% off your membership.

00:28:06   That's fitbud, F-I-T-B-O-D.me/connected for 25% off.

00:28:11   Our thanks to FitBud for the support of this show

00:28:13   and Relay FM.

00:28:14   - So I have a tiny topic that I would like to talk about,

00:28:18   but first let me ask you a question, Mike,

00:28:21   to go back to the previous tiny topic of Tim Cook.

00:28:23   - Okay.

00:28:24   - Do you think that if in 30 years

00:28:27   I show up at the opening of an Apple store,

00:28:30   wherever that's gonna be,

00:28:32   and I show up with a base model, 10th generation iPad

00:28:36   with an Apple Pencil plugged into the adapter

00:28:38   that is plugged into the iPad,

00:28:41   if I show up with that weird thing in 30 years,

00:28:44   will I get the same reaction?

00:28:46   - Well, probably not from Tim Cook.

00:28:48   - Right.

00:28:49   - 'Cause I'm gonna assume in 30 years time

00:28:53   he won't be that person.

00:28:55   - Because technically it seems healthy enough.

00:28:59   Like technically you could be a CEO at 90 something years old.

00:29:03   - You could be, he's 62 right now.

00:29:06   - Yeah, I could be a CEO at 92.

00:29:09   - I don't think he will be.

00:29:12   - But when you go see my boy John Turnus,

00:29:14   who will be CEO at that point.

00:29:16   - Right, right.

00:29:17   Do you think I will be greeted by John Turnus,

00:29:19   or will I be escorted out of the line?

00:29:24   - I have nothing to,

00:29:25   I expect nothing but John Turnus

00:29:28   giving you a very warm grin.

00:29:30   - Nice, nice.

00:29:31   With the 10th generation base model iPad

00:29:34   plugged into an adapter, plugged into an Apple Pencil.

00:29:37   - 'Cause he will say,

00:29:38   how great you even provided me

00:29:40   with the thing to sign this with.

00:29:42   'Cause the pencil is already there

00:29:45   and you can just sign the iPad.

00:29:46   - Or I could just say, hey, 30 years later,

00:29:49   do you now feel bad about this in hindsight?

00:29:54   - I will still, I will go to my grave

00:29:58   defending the original Apple Pencil.

00:29:59   It was like, you needed to be able to charge the tool

00:30:05   from the device.

00:30:07   There was no other way to do that at the time.

00:30:10   - You got to plug it in the bottom there,

00:30:11   you know what I mean?

00:30:13   - But still, I mean, look at it.

00:30:15   Anyway, anyway, okay.

00:30:18   We don't need to talk about that.

00:30:19   It was just a thought exercise.

00:30:22   So the title of this topic,

00:30:24   and you will appreciate, I hope the alliteration,

00:30:29   or how do you call this as a figure of speech?

00:30:32   - Assonance, I think.

00:30:34   - Thank you.

00:30:34   Oh my God, yes, you know English.

00:30:37   I appreciate you.

00:30:38   Teaching needs teaching, okay?

00:30:42   The idea being that now that I'm a Mac user again,

00:30:45   I need tips, I need recommendation.

00:30:48   I want to know from you, from the people, from everybody,

00:30:53   I need good Mac apps and utilities.

00:30:56   And I'm referring to like the little known third party stuff,

00:31:01   little utilities, little hacks, whatever.

00:31:04   I'm gonna give you some context

00:31:06   because I've been building up my portfolio,

00:31:09   my collection again, okay?

00:31:11   I have some that I want to mention.

00:31:13   I mean, of course I'm using Raycast.

00:31:15   That's the thing everybody's using these days.

00:31:17   It's a launcher.

00:31:18   To answer Emma in Discord,

00:31:22   yes, I signed up for a setup subscription.

00:31:26   So that's actually been a great way

00:31:29   to discover some of these Mac utilities,

00:31:31   like just browsing through the setup gallery.

00:31:34   That's been fantastic.

00:31:36   Some of the other things I have,

00:31:37   of course I have better touch tool.

00:31:39   That's what I'm using to remap some keyboard shortcuts

00:31:42   on my Mac to assign some custom actions

00:31:44   to trackpad gestures, for example.

00:31:47   That's what I'm doing.

00:31:48   I'm gonna get a little deep

00:31:49   into the lesser known stuff now, Mike.

00:31:53   - Okay.

00:31:54   - Naptunes.

00:31:56   - I have no idea.

00:31:57   - This is a little utility that sits in the menu bar

00:31:59   and mirrors what I'm listening to

00:32:02   either in Apple Music or Spotify

00:32:04   to my last FM account.

00:32:05   It's a scrubber.

00:32:06   - Oh, it's a scrubble tool, baby.

00:32:08   - It's a scrubble tool.

00:32:09   - Scrubble it up.

00:32:10   Scrubble it up.

00:32:11   - All day scrubbling.

00:32:12   Never, never without scrubbling.

00:32:14   Naptunes.

00:32:16   Very, very good.

00:32:17   - Is that all it does?

00:32:18   It just squabbles?

00:32:19   - Well, it's got some keyboard shortcuts.

00:32:21   It's got some keyboard shortcuts.

00:32:23   You can love, you can love tracks.

00:32:26   You can play pause.

00:32:29   It's got multiple themes.

00:32:31   Like, look, it's actually very good.

00:32:33   It's a very good Mac app.

00:32:34   Next one.

00:32:36   I was missing the way that the Alt+Tab

00:32:40   sort of switcher works and looks on Windows.

00:32:46   And there's an equivalent third-party utility for Mac

00:32:49   called, well, Alt+Tab, which is like,

00:32:52   it's like Command+Tab, but it's not just icons.

00:32:55   It's also got previews of the windows.

00:32:57   - That's good, actually.

00:32:59   - It's very good.

00:33:00   - I like that.

00:33:01   I'm gonna keep this tab open for myself.

00:33:04   - We're gonna talk about this at some point.

00:33:06   Like, I am firmly convinced that Windows 11

00:33:09   does a lot of multitasking-related things

00:33:12   better than Mac OS and iPad OS.

00:33:14   - Or that kind of stuff.

00:33:16   - And this is one of the, like, the Alt+Tab switcher.

00:33:19   There's a Mac OS equivalent.

00:33:22   Also speaking of multitasking, Lasso.

00:33:25   Like TED.

00:33:27   So this is a brand, this is a relatively new,

00:33:30   like indie multitasking enhancement

00:33:34   that allows you to resize windows on Mac OS

00:33:38   by drawing the area you want the window to occupy on screen.

00:33:43   It's easier to understand what it does

00:33:46   by going to the website and seeing, like,

00:33:48   the images and the GIFs in action

00:33:51   than hearing me talk about it.

00:33:53   It's very good. - Let me ask you something.

00:33:55   What do you think about the icon for Lasso?

00:33:59   - Well, I don't even remember the icon.

00:34:00   What's the icon? - So if you go to the website,

00:34:02   you look like I got a little icon.

00:34:03   - Ah, it's like, it's the, it's cute.

00:34:07   - Yeah, it's a bit unfortunate, I think.

00:34:10   - Wait, why is it a-

00:34:13   - So I see it as like a small,

00:34:15   little small favicon in my Safari tabs here.

00:34:19   It looks like, it looks like the icon's wearing, like,

00:34:22   a thong. - Oh, oh.

00:34:26   Oh, yeah. - It's not great.

00:34:28   - Well, well. - Great placement.

00:34:30   (laughing)

00:34:31   - Now they- - I mean, like,

00:34:32   you do you icon, you know?

00:34:33   Like, if that's what you're looking for, you go for it.

00:34:35   But like- - Ah, yeah, now I-

00:34:38   - I don't know.

00:34:38   I don't know, man. - Oh, God.

00:34:40   Oh, God. - I don't know, man.

00:34:42   - So anyway.

00:34:43   (laughing)

00:34:45   You just had to mention this.

00:34:47   - Yeah, well, look, if I'm gonna have to see it,

00:34:49   everyone else is gonna have to get it in their heads too.

00:34:51   Why should I suffer in silence?

00:34:52   - So the good thing is you never see the icon.

00:34:56   You can hide the icon from the dock.

00:34:58   And I use Bartender, of course.

00:35:01   So I never see it in the menu bar either.

00:35:03   And I'll tell you, I mapped the keyboard shortcut for it

00:35:08   to my Logilift vertical mouse.

00:35:13   - Oh, that's so smart. - Yes.

00:35:15   It's super smart because now I can just hit my thumb.

00:35:19   I'm doing this now. - Yeah.

00:35:20   - I'm clicking.

00:35:21   And of course, Lasso supports multiple displays.

00:35:25   So I'm just, for example,

00:35:26   I'm resizing the Safari window now

00:35:28   with the little drawing tool.

00:35:30   - I use Moom, right?

00:35:33   Like that's the app that I use for window management.

00:35:36   But I have like a bunch of just like presets that I use.

00:35:41   But sometimes I want something ad hoc or like specific.

00:35:45   And I'm gonna download Lasso and try this out

00:35:48   'cause I really like the way this UI looks.

00:35:50   - Yeah, it's very nice.

00:35:52   And the last one I'll mention,

00:35:53   this one I got from SetApp, almighty.

00:35:56   So this almighty, it's like,

00:35:58   this is a collection of Mac OS, like hacks.

00:36:02   I don't mean like in a way that it's like

00:36:06   it's hacking your computer.

00:36:08   But you know like those terminal commands

00:36:10   that allow you to like enable a flag,

00:36:13   like those, what are they called?

00:36:14   Like those commands.

00:36:16   - Pee-less, pee?

00:36:18   - No, like when you gotta use a terminal command

00:36:23   to I don't know, like show hidden files

00:36:25   or like show extensions, whatever in Finder.

00:36:28   It's like a collection of those configurations,

00:36:31   I guess, for Mac OS with the UI, with like a proper UI.

00:36:35   And it's so well done, you can choose which ones to enable.

00:36:39   You can choose which ones to mark as favorites.

00:36:42   And those favorites you will find as like one click toggles

00:36:47   in the menu bar.

00:36:48   - Can you tell me what kind of things

00:36:50   you're doing with this?

00:36:51   - Yeah, so for example, the toggles that I have now,

00:36:55   one is enable dark mode.

00:36:57   So like I click on the menu bar icon

00:36:59   and just enable dark mode.

00:37:00   Another is show desktop icons.

00:37:03   So on demand defaults, thank you Vince,

00:37:06   those defaults commands, that's what I was referring to.

00:37:09   - That's a bad name for what these things are.

00:37:12   - It is, it is a bad name.

00:37:13   So the other one is show desktop icons.

00:37:16   If I need to take a video or a screenshot or something,

00:37:19   and I can just choose to show or hide

00:37:21   all the icons on my desktop.

00:37:23   And that's one click away in the menu bar.

00:37:25   Then I got another, visualize keystrokes.

00:37:28   So again, if I'm recording a video

00:37:30   and I wanna show what keyboard combination I'm typing,

00:37:33   this lets me do it.

00:37:34   Show live camera.

00:37:37   This is a fantastic one.

00:37:39   You flip this toggle and a little circular preview

00:37:44   of your webcam pops up in the bottom left corner

00:37:48   of your Mac.

00:37:49   So you can quickly check.

00:37:50   - Why is that a thing the Mac can just do?

00:37:53   - I don't know.

00:37:55   - Right? - I don't know.

00:37:55   - Why is that like a thing?

00:37:57   That's why. - I don't know.

00:37:58   I don't know.

00:37:59   So almighty and just today, just as of today,

00:38:04   I got an update notification via setup

00:38:08   and almighty was updated with something else

00:38:11   that I loved from windows,

00:38:14   which is a dock window preview tool.

00:38:17   So that when you hover with your mouse over an icon

00:38:22   in your dock, you get a thumbnail preview

00:38:25   of all the open windows for that application

00:38:29   on your computer.

00:38:30   - This also feels like those two things you just mentioned,

00:38:33   they feel like things that the developers built, right?

00:38:35   Rather than just being. - Yes.

00:38:37   - But this sounds like a great little set of utilities.

00:38:39   - Yes, it's a set of utilities

00:38:40   and especially this dock preview tool.

00:38:43   It's something else that I love from windows.

00:38:45   Like you can preview windows from the dock

00:38:47   and close them from the dock, super nicely done.

00:38:52   But these are like five things or six things

00:38:56   that I have on my Mac.

00:38:57   I need more.

00:38:58   You see?

00:39:00   - I have four for you.

00:39:01   - Okay.

00:39:02   - There is some overlap for the things

00:39:04   you were talking about.

00:39:05   Like one of mine is an app

00:39:08   and I'll just say all of these that I'm mentioning,

00:39:11   I got all of these from Setapp as well.

00:39:13   Setapp has been and is a sponsor of Relay FM shows.

00:39:17   I pay for my own Setapp subscription.

00:39:19   - Oh yeah, me too.

00:39:20   I signed up last night.

00:39:21   - And I like Setapp for these kinds of apps.

00:39:25   Like there's loads of them on there

00:39:27   and it's just very easy to find them.

00:39:28   And then you don't have to bother

00:39:29   with like getting different licenses.

00:39:32   So like, I like it for that.

00:39:34   They are not a sponsor of this episode.

00:39:35   I wish they were,

00:39:36   'cause like they would have fit very nicely with content,

00:39:39   but they're not, but I recommend it.

00:39:42   So one of mine is an app called Hand Mirror,

00:39:45   which is, it's a menu bar app that can give you

00:39:49   just a quick preview of the webcam that you have.

00:39:54   So you can see yourself if you're about to go

00:39:56   into like a video call or something.

00:39:58   Just like a very quick, you just tap it and it pops up.

00:40:01   And if you have one of the Macs of a notch,

00:40:04   you can just move your mouse onto the notch.

00:40:06   - That's nice.

00:40:07   - And it'll pop it down.

00:40:08   So I like that one.

00:40:10   CleanShot X.

00:40:11   - Oh, I love this one.

00:40:12   Yes, I also use it.

00:40:14   The best is if you use a Mac, you should have this app.

00:40:18   Like I cannot speak highly enough about this application.

00:40:22   It does everything regarding capturing screenshots, videos.

00:40:27   It's so simple to use.

00:40:30   Everything is built better than Apple's tools.

00:40:32   It's all more visible.

00:40:33   It's all easier.

00:40:34   Like for example, if you take a bunch of screenshots,

00:40:36   you can have them just all stay in that little preview area

00:40:39   until you're done with them,

00:40:39   rather than go away like they do on the Mac.

00:40:42   Now the scrolling capture I use a lot

00:40:44   and they have an auto scrolling feature.

00:40:45   So you want to capture like a large piece of an app

00:40:49   or a webpage or like whatever, and you've got to scroll it.

00:40:52   You just draw the area, press auto scroll.

00:40:54   It'll just scroll until you stop.

00:40:55   It's fantastic.

00:40:56   I love that.

00:40:58   You mentioned about like one of the things you'd like

00:41:00   from the almighty app was to show and hide desktop icons.

00:41:05   That's also a feature in CleanShot.

00:41:07   So you can just have it automatically show

00:41:09   or not show your desktop items

00:41:11   and you're taking screenshots.

00:41:13   If you ever take screenshots or videos on your Mac,

00:41:17   you should be using CleanShot.

00:41:18   I'm going to recommend two others to you Federico,

00:41:22   which don't do things you've mentioned previously.

00:41:24   One is called DropZone.

00:41:27   DropZone is a menu bar app.

00:41:30   - This has been around for a long time I think.

00:41:32   - Yes.

00:41:33   - DropZone, yeah.

00:41:34   - And you can configure it to basically,

00:41:36   if you're dragging and dropping a file,

00:41:38   is like here's like a bunch of places

00:41:39   you might drag and drop a file to.

00:41:42   Mine is very simple, like what I have it set up for.

00:41:45   My DropZone has my receipts folder

00:41:48   where I have to save receipts for my accountant.

00:41:51   I have an action to zip files that I drag to it.

00:41:55   And the easiest one for me is airdrop

00:41:56   because like airdrop is just like not as simple

00:41:59   as I want it to be.

00:42:01   - Yeah.

00:42:02   - Right?

00:42:02   It's like you got to do the thing,

00:42:04   you got to go to finder, press the airdrop thing.

00:42:06   You got to right click and then share.

00:42:07   No, I don't like it.

00:42:08   So I take a file, I drag it over the DropZone icon,

00:42:11   drop it on the airdrop icon

00:42:13   and it just opens up the airdrop sharing thing

00:42:15   and let's you share it.

00:42:16   But you can set a bunch of things here.

00:42:18   Like if you're uploading to an SFTP or FTP server a lot,

00:42:22   you can do that.

00:42:23   You can do URL shortening with it

00:42:24   and you can configure that.

00:42:26   There's like a bunch of things that you can set up.

00:42:29   And I'm sure someone like you, who's very resourceful,

00:42:33   would be able to find a bunch of different things

00:42:34   that you might want to share files to

00:42:36   and this is a good way to do that.

00:42:38   You know, like if you had,

00:42:40   you could have a folder that Hazel's watching

00:42:42   for something, right?

00:42:43   You could drag it into DropZone,

00:42:45   it will take it into that folder

00:42:46   and then Hazel's going to do whatever it's going to do

00:42:48   to those set of files when they're dropped in.

00:42:50   You know, like rename them or move them or something.

00:42:52   It's just like a really good way to get files

00:42:54   from somewhere on your Mac to literally anywhere else

00:42:58   without needing to open a bunch of windows

00:42:59   or whatever's going on.

00:43:01   My last one is PopClip.

00:43:04   - Hmm, yes.

00:43:06   PopClip on the face of it does something

00:43:09   which I think is very useful,

00:43:11   which is when you select text,

00:43:13   it gives you the copy paste actions from iOS and iPadOS.

00:43:18   You know, like so you select text

00:43:19   and it pops up over the top.

00:43:21   So you can copy text easily if you're used to that.

00:43:23   I like it because I'm used to that,

00:43:25   but it also has extensions.

00:43:28   So you can do things with the text.

00:43:32   So I have a couple installed that I really like.

00:43:34   One of them is to title case the selected words.

00:43:38   So, and it's also contextually aware.

00:43:42   So it doesn't give me the title case action

00:43:44   unless it's like just text that is able to change.

00:43:47   So I can select the text,

00:43:48   press the title case button that appears,

00:43:50   and it will just change all of that to title case for me.

00:43:54   They have a chat GPT action.

00:43:56   So you can select text, tap the chat GPT button,

00:44:00   and it will just add in the response.

00:44:03   So like they have an example of,

00:44:05   just taking notes,

00:44:07   it says how tall is the Empire State Building?

00:44:09   And they select it and it just pops it in.

00:44:11   And it says, when was it built?

00:44:13   Just pops it in.

00:44:14   It's very smart.

00:44:15   It has like converting markdown to HTML,

00:44:19   copying links cleanly.

00:44:22   Like they have a bunch of extensions for different apps,

00:44:26   like select text, create a fantastic account entry.

00:44:30   There are tons and tons of extensions for this application.

00:44:33   I think it's very smart of just like a way to select text

00:44:37   and have a visual prompt to do something with that text.

00:44:42   So that's like another one that I recommend.

00:44:45   - Very nice, very nice, okay.

00:44:46   - So I'm gonna suggest,

00:44:48   probably is a good way for people to send this stuff in

00:44:52   so everybody can benefit from it,

00:44:54   is to go to connectedfeedback.com.

00:44:57   So if you have app suggestions for Federico

00:45:01   and for the passionate ones,

00:45:03   if you go to connectedfeedback.com,

00:45:05   you get to send it in as follow up or something.

00:45:08   And we will be able to look at those

00:45:10   on future episodes of the show.

00:45:12   And then everyone can benefit from the collective

00:45:15   passionate Mac users. - Wisdom.

00:45:18   - The wisdom of the passionate ones.

00:45:20   - Yes, that's a great idea.

00:45:21   - I saw an article on the Verge today

00:45:25   about the possibility that Google will announce

00:45:30   the folding Pixel phone that they've been working on.

00:45:35   - Okay.

00:45:37   - Next month.

00:45:38   At Google I/O on May 10th.

00:45:42   And these leaks are also suggesting

00:45:45   it will be available in June.

00:45:47   - Okay.

00:45:48   - So this is quoting from the Verge.

00:45:50   You should expect a closed book style 5.8 inch phone

00:45:55   that folds out to a 7.6 inch tablet

00:45:58   powered by Google's Tensor G2 processor

00:46:01   starting at upwards of $1,700,

00:46:05   which is so expensive for a Pixel phone.

00:46:09   So form factor wise, it's like the Galaxy Fold

00:46:13   and like screen, apparently screen on the outside,

00:46:15   folding screen on the inside, but smaller.

00:46:19   Kind of like the outside is more phone shaped.

00:46:22   So it's like smaller and more squat, right?

00:46:24   Like it's a 5.8 inch phone on the outside

00:46:27   where like the folders always kind of struggled

00:46:29   with those dimensions.

00:46:32   A CNBC source claims it will have a 24 hour battery

00:46:36   up to 72 hours in low power mode.

00:46:39   I bet by the way, that like what's not reported

00:46:43   is 24 hour battery if you're only using the external screen.

00:46:47   - Okay.

00:46:49   - That's how I read that because 24 hour battery

00:46:54   is a long battery and I feel like you could do that

00:46:56   because you can have double the battery

00:46:58   if you have double the phone.

00:47:00   - Of course.

00:47:02   - But that's not gonna work if you're using

00:47:03   the 7.6 inch tablet all the time.

00:47:06   That's how I assume this is gonna be, but we'll find out.

00:47:10   Actually, this is really interesting

00:47:12   like that Google are going for it.

00:47:14   Like the next version of Android, Android 14,

00:47:18   which is already in, this is like the weird thing

00:47:20   that Google do compared to what we're used to with Apple.

00:47:23   So Google IO is in May, but the first public beta

00:47:26   is for Android 14 are already available.

00:47:29   - Yes, which is like the opposite of what we're used to.

00:47:32   - Absolute opposite.

00:47:33   But as you would imagine, they hold back things

00:47:36   for Google IO.

00:47:37   - Yep.

00:47:38   - And so I thought this was interesting.

00:47:40   I also thought how funny would it be

00:47:42   if this comes out before the Pixel tablet

00:47:44   that you spoke about last year?

00:47:46   - Well, it seems very likely at this point

00:47:48   because that tablet is nowhere to be seen.

00:47:51   - I wouldn't be surprised if they have both.

00:47:54   It's both, right?

00:47:56   That they're doing these together

00:47:57   because it would be absolutely wild if this beats that out.

00:48:02   - Well, and also it would be the perfect opportunity

00:48:05   to sort of retell a new tablet story for Android, right?

00:48:10   If you have both a dedicated tablet

00:48:13   and a phone that could sort of fold open into a mini tablet,

00:48:18   that's a perfect narrative to say,

00:48:20   and look the kind of tablet experiences

00:48:23   you can now offer on Android 14, right?

00:48:26   Because historically that's been one of the weak points

00:48:29   of Android and sort of the Android ecosystem as a whole.

00:48:32   You know, when you compare Android tablets to,

00:48:35   you know, you may not like the latest version

00:48:37   of multitasking, but you know, iPadOS,

00:48:40   not just the developer adoption of dedicated tablet UIs,

00:48:45   it's much, much stronger on iPadOS than it is on Android.

00:48:49   And so this would be a great opportunity for Google

00:48:52   to reboot their tablet efforts and say,

00:48:55   and we are so committed to this that we have a tablet

00:48:59   and a foldable phone that also uses the same UI

00:49:02   when you open it up.

00:49:04   I think that would make a lot of sense.

00:49:05   - I think you're right.

00:49:06   And that might actually be one of the reasons

00:49:08   why this tablet is taken as long as it's taken,

00:49:11   because they've been working on this for 14.

00:49:13   But that does beg the question for me

00:49:14   of why did they show off at Google I/O last year?

00:49:17   - That I don't know.

00:49:19   (laughing)

00:49:20   - No one can answer that.

00:49:22   - No. - At least not us.

00:49:23   Maybe they can answer that on material.

00:49:25   Go check out material on Relay FM,

00:49:27   maybe they can answer that question.

00:49:28   But I don't understand why they did it.

00:49:31   'Cause I'm still remaining intrigued by that tablet, right?

00:49:34   Because it has the base that we were talking about

00:49:36   on the show before, where you can plug it in

00:49:37   and it becomes like a hub, Nest, Max thing,

00:49:41   whatever they call them.

00:49:42   - Which supposedly is also what's gonna happen.

00:49:46   Well, Apple will probably have a similar product

00:49:49   in the future.

00:49:50   It's not clear if it'll be an iPad with a docking station

00:49:54   or just a not in one accessory.

00:49:57   But that sort of experience of a HomePod

00:50:00   with a proper screen, iPad-like screen,

00:50:04   could be in the cards for Apple too.

00:50:06   - I would be surprised if it was just a docking station

00:50:10   for an iPad personally.

00:50:11   I think like, here's another device we can sell you,

00:50:14   seems more likely to me,

00:50:15   then here's a docking station we can sell you.

00:50:18   But we don't know what the next few years hold

00:50:20   when it comes to iPads and Macs and all that kind of stuff.

00:50:23   So who could tell, right?

00:50:24   Maybe you just have one device

00:50:26   and like sometimes it's a Mac

00:50:27   and sometimes it's a HomePod, it seems.

00:50:29   - Imagine that.

00:50:30   Imagine that.

00:50:31   (laughing)

00:50:32   - Can you imagine?

00:50:33   It's just like, oh, well, I need my iPad to do my work,

00:50:36   but like now my family's listening to the music

00:50:39   on the hub thing, so I guess I'll just have to wait.

00:50:42   - 'Cause, sorry family, but I need my speaker back

00:50:47   because it's also a computer.

00:50:49   - It's work time.

00:50:49   - Are you going to, let me ask you this,

00:50:53   you were going to America in June.

00:50:56   Are we gonna go check out the Pixel phone,

00:51:01   Pixel Fold at a Google, is there even a Google store?

00:51:05   Is there, do they have Google stores?

00:51:07   - Yes, I've been to a Google store in Chicago.

00:51:10   - Okay.

00:51:11   - We probably have one in London, but I don't know.

00:51:14   - You do?

00:51:15   - I don't know, I have no idea.

00:51:17   If we haven't seen it before then, yeah,

00:51:21   I mean, I hope that we would get to see it somewhere

00:51:25   when we're in America, that would be pretty great.

00:51:27   Okay, Google store, London should be nothing, so.

00:51:30   - Okay, so you don't have a Google store.

00:51:33   Are you interested in this phone,

00:51:36   like as a thing you wanna own?

00:51:38   - This is complicated, I mean,

00:51:41   I will probably be as interested in this

00:51:46   as I am every single time Google does one of these things,

00:51:49   which is I'm always interested, right?

00:51:52   - Yes.

00:51:53   - But history has shown me that I will get it

00:51:57   and I will use it for a few weeks

00:51:58   and then I won't use it anymore

00:52:00   until there's something else specific

00:52:01   that I want to use it for, right?

00:52:04   - That has been my experience as well, yes.

00:52:06   - We have all fallen prey to this.

00:52:08   So realistically, I would like to try one,

00:52:13   but I will not buy one, but I will be interested.

00:52:16   The thing that is different to me here from say,

00:52:21   the original Fold and the original Z Flip,

00:52:23   was those were products that I wanted to buy and use

00:52:26   because I wanted to understand

00:52:29   what this kind of form factor meant.

00:52:32   But like Google are not changing the game here,

00:52:36   this is just their version

00:52:38   of what Samsung's already been doing

00:52:40   and I have spent a lot of time using.

00:52:43   So like that kind of curiosity isn't there the same,

00:52:47   it's more just like how would Google do this?

00:52:50   But I don't think that I personally

00:52:54   need to have a ton of experience with that myself,

00:52:57   that I can't just glean from trying it out for 10 minutes

00:53:01   and then watching some videos and listening to some podcasts

00:53:04   about people that will use it every day,

00:53:07   because it's not a new form factor.

00:53:08   If Google came out with something

00:53:10   and it was like a brand new form factor,

00:53:12   yeah, I probably would buy one

00:53:13   if I thought that this was a thing

00:53:16   that was gonna change technology in the future,

00:53:18   which I do still believe that like in 2027 or whatever,

00:53:23   we'll be talking about Apple's foldable device or,

00:53:27   so like that was why I was really intrigued

00:53:29   about the original kind of form factors

00:53:31   from a reputable company.

00:53:33   And so I'm always gonna remain interested there

00:53:36   and I just like in general,

00:53:38   I'm interested in what would a pixel version

00:53:42   of a folding phone be and what would Android be

00:53:45   on the like primary device for this,

00:53:49   that is made for this,

00:53:51   but that's probably where my curiosity will end,

00:53:53   unless they surprise me in some way.

00:53:55   What do you think is kind of saying today,

00:53:57   like a month before they would show up?

00:53:59   - Yeah, I don't know.

00:54:00   I feel the same way and I'm mostly intrigued.

00:54:04   Like what's the pixel sort of vanilla Android version

00:54:08   of this product, right?

00:54:10   Is there anything that Google can do here

00:54:13   to sort of shake up maybe the multitasking story, right?

00:54:16   We've seen Microsoft, we've seen Samsung,

00:54:20   we've seen other smartphone makers,

00:54:22   each offer sort of their own take on,

00:54:25   okay, here's what you can do

00:54:26   when you have a foldable form factor.

00:54:30   What's the Google way to do this?

00:54:35   That's what intrigues me a lot.

00:54:37   Probably not gonna, I don't think I'm gonna,

00:54:41   like you said, I don't think I'm gonna buy this phone

00:54:43   because I've been burned here before.

00:54:46   I don't really like Android.

00:54:49   I understand why a lot of people do.

00:54:52   I like Windows more than I like Android.

00:54:55   If I were to pick an on-Apple operating system,

00:54:58   I would pick Windows over Android any day

00:55:00   in terms of like what's interesting for me.

00:55:03   - Okay.

00:55:05   - But I am also very much fascinated by Google

00:55:10   right now for three reasons.

00:55:16   One of them being what I just mentioned.

00:55:18   What's their take on the tablet UI

00:55:21   and the foldable UI?

00:55:23   The second one is what are their next goals

00:55:27   for computational photography?

00:55:29   How further can they push what a Pixel device can do?

00:55:34   And three, in some ways they feel like in the AI race,

00:55:38   they feel like the underdog right now with Google Board

00:55:41   compared to chat GPT.

00:55:44   And I really wanna see what they do on that front

00:55:47   because in theory, they shouldn't be behind.

00:55:50   And yet it feels like they are.

00:55:53   And so for these three reasons, I'm paying attention,

00:55:56   but at the same time, I'm not gonna buy this product.

00:55:59   - Yeah, my expectation is that Google I/O

00:56:03   will have a couple of hardware announcements

00:56:06   and then otherwise be focused on consumer AI tools, right?

00:56:09   Like if they're doing anything other than that,

00:56:11   they're wasting the time of everybody watching,

00:56:14   in my opinion. - I agree.

00:56:15   - Like for what Google should be doing

00:56:17   at Google I/O this year,

00:56:19   every product that they show

00:56:21   should have some kind of AI integration.

00:56:24   I heard on a podcast recently,

00:56:26   Sundar Pichai was on HardFork,

00:56:30   which is a podcast that I like.

00:56:33   And he said that Bard is using

00:56:37   one of their more kind of rudimentary models

00:56:41   and that they're upgrading it.

00:56:43   They're gonna continue to upgrade it,

00:56:45   which is intriguing.

00:56:47   It seems like they're a bit like,

00:56:49   they're nervous. - They are.

00:56:51   - They've got more to lose than anybody else in this fight.

00:56:54   So I kind of get it.

00:56:57   I do feel like,

00:56:58   I know we were talking about this stuff recently,

00:56:59   but the further we're moving down this path anyway,

00:57:02   I don't think these are for search.

00:57:05   I think we've learned that now.

00:57:06   Like for web searching, like to replace web searching,

00:57:10   I don't think that's what these models are good at.

00:57:12   Like, I think they're good at like content creation

00:57:16   and like information creation and gathering

00:57:19   more than they are like,

00:57:22   "Hey, find me a holiday."

00:57:24   You know? - Yeah.

00:57:25   - But we'll see. - We'll see.

00:57:27   - This episode is brought to you by Electric.

00:57:30   Turning a small business into something larger,

00:57:33   into an empire takes work.

00:57:35   It takes effort.

00:57:36   You have to keep your ears to the ground.

00:57:37   You wanna stay on top of things

00:57:38   that are gonna help you take your company to the next stage,

00:57:41   to that next level.

00:57:43   But this can be hard to do when your attention

00:57:46   is being pulled in tons of different directions.

00:57:48   That is the reality of running your own business.

00:57:51   The team over at Electric knows small businesses,

00:57:54   maybe like yours, face these kinds of challenges.

00:57:57   That's why they're on hand to help

00:57:58   with the time consuming parts of your business.

00:58:01   Like standardized device security

00:58:03   with best in class device management software,

00:58:06   so you can implement best practices across the board

00:58:08   and be ready to scale.

00:58:10   Employment onboarding and offboarding is done for you,

00:58:13   saving you an average of eight hours per request.

00:58:15   By keeping a single point of visibility

00:58:17   into your IT environment to control your devices,

00:58:19   networks and applications.

00:58:21   Simplified reporting that allows you to achieve

00:58:23   and maintain compliance, compliance man,

00:58:25   you gotta stay compliant with compliance,

00:58:27   and proactive IT recommendations and automated workflows

00:58:31   to make IT easy to manage for even non-technical users.

00:58:35   If you're hearing this and you think your company

00:58:37   could use some of the above services,

00:58:39   but you're not sure where to start,

00:58:40   Electric's experts will guide you through the process

00:58:43   of establishing standardized IT processes

00:58:46   for your organization.

00:58:48   All of this stuff is important to do,

00:58:50   and time consuming and difficult,

00:58:52   and takes you away from the thing

00:58:55   that you should otherwise be doing.

00:58:56   You didn't start your business,

00:58:58   so you can manage IT for the people

00:58:59   that are working with you and for you.

00:59:01   That is why you need Electric.

00:59:03   That's why this stuff is important.

00:59:04   You know, for me, I wanna be able to focus

00:59:06   on what I'm doing every day and what I'm actually good at.

00:59:09   It's not this kind of stuff.

00:59:11   For connected listeners,

00:59:12   Electric is offering a free pair of Beats Solo 3 headphones

00:59:15   for taking a qualified meeting.

00:59:17   Just go to electric.ai/connected.

00:59:20   That's electric.ai/connected.

00:59:22   Go there right now and get your free pair

00:59:25   of Beats Solo 3 headphones today for scheduling a meeting.

00:59:28   Our thanks to Electric for their support

00:59:29   of this show and Relay FM.

00:59:31   Mark Gurman is reporting that Apple is developing

00:59:34   a large selection of apps to work in their headset,

00:59:38   as you would hope, right?

00:59:39   - Yes.

00:59:40   - And that a lot of them and some interface elements

00:59:45   may look similar to how they operate on the iPad.

00:59:49   Now, I wanna read you a list of the stuff

00:59:53   that Mark is reporting.

00:59:54   This list was provided by The Verge,

00:59:56   not directly to us, but they wrote it

00:59:57   and they did a good job of summarising it,

00:59:59   so I'm going to quote it.

01:00:01   So, the upcoming headset will receive optimised versions

01:00:06   of system apps like Safari Calendar, Contacts, Files,

01:00:10   Home, Mail, Maps, Messages, Music, News, Notes,

01:00:14   Photos, Reminders, Stocks and Weather.

01:00:17   Basically, all of the apps that Apple seem to consider

01:00:21   make the core set built into an operating system.

01:00:25   - Yeah.

01:00:26   - Right, this is all of it.

01:00:27   I mean, there's other stuff I'm gonna mention in a minute,

01:00:29   but like these are like the, you need this stuff

01:00:33   to be a proper OS in Apple's eyes.

01:00:36   - Okay, stocks, especially stocks.

01:00:39   - Hey, look, we can make jokes about it,

01:00:42   but they put that thing everywhere.

01:00:44   So they, you know, whether me or you agree,

01:00:47   they think it's important, right?

01:00:49   - Yeah, it's like, you know, stocks, yes.

01:00:52   - I don't know why I need my stocks in VR.

01:00:55   I also don't know why I need my stocks on my watch.

01:00:58   - Yeah. - But they're there.

01:01:01   - Yeah, I mean.

01:01:02   Apparently, Apple is at 167.96 right now,

01:01:07   according to what's available on my watch.

01:01:10   - Well, that's useful information to have.

01:01:12   Now, imagine that in VR.

01:01:14   - In VR, I can have my stocks.

01:01:15   I can be in the charts.

01:01:18   - You, hey, yes, you can be.

01:01:20   - I can jump inside, I can be in the chart.

01:01:22   - Jump inside, look around, yes, okay.

01:01:24   - There is a question about how these would be tailored

01:01:27   to this operating system.

01:01:29   Like, so one of the things that Mark says,

01:01:32   versions of FaceTime and Apple TV

01:01:35   with features that will quote,

01:01:37   "look similar to their iPad counterparts."

01:01:40   I'm assuming that this probably

01:01:43   encapsulates all of these apps.

01:01:45   - Okay, so I have questions and thoughts.

01:01:50   And I think we should start

01:01:52   from the very fundamental question here,

01:01:55   which is when you're working with the Apple headset,

01:02:00   which totally are, well, kind of are related,

01:02:05   but are you a believer, Mike, in the Reality Pro name?

01:02:10   - I don't like it.

01:02:13   - Me neither.

01:02:14   - But like.

01:02:17   - It's boring enough that they're probably gonna use it.

01:02:20   - Yeah, oh, you're asking me,

01:02:22   do I think they're gonna call it Apple Reality?

01:02:25   - Yeah.

01:02:26   - Probably, I mean, like, I don't like the name,

01:02:30   but I'm being honest, like,

01:02:31   I've spent a lot of time thinking about this as you have,

01:02:34   as we all have, I don't have a better name.

01:02:37   - Yeah, me neither.

01:02:38   - Like, it's not good, but I don't have a better one.

01:02:40   - Yeah, okay, okay, all right, so we're on the same page.

01:02:42   So the fundamental question is, okay,

01:02:46   so we know that you're gonna have traditional,

01:02:50   quote, unquote, traditional experiences, right?

01:02:53   Like you're gonna have a web browser,

01:02:55   you're gonna have a calendar,

01:02:56   you're gonna have your email,

01:02:57   you're gonna have messages, okay.

01:02:59   The fundamental question here is,

01:03:02   from a design perspective,

01:03:03   are these going to be traditional window-based experiences,

01:03:09   or are these going to be 3D interfaces?

01:03:14   - What is that, what is a 3D interface?

01:03:16   - Right, right, okay.

01:03:18   So when we spoke about my experiences with VR headsets,

01:03:22   one of the things we covered is,

01:03:25   and you also spoke about this on Cortex with Gray,

01:03:29   the idea of working in VR

01:03:32   and doing traditional computing in VR.

01:03:35   So when we covered this,

01:03:37   I spoke about my experience with Windows,

01:03:40   which is you can view your computer's screen

01:03:45   and have virtual displays in VR.

01:03:49   But when you're looking at those apps,

01:03:52   those are still 2D projections, right?

01:03:56   You still have a rectangular window, right?

01:04:00   Which is a flat window,

01:04:01   it's a flat surface that you can see in front of you,

01:04:05   maybe it's curved, but bear with me,

01:04:08   it's still a 2D type of information.

01:04:11   You have a box, which is a window

01:04:13   for the application that you're using, right?

01:04:16   You just have multiple of those rectangles,

01:04:19   in front of you, that's how you do computing.

01:04:22   They could do this, right?

01:04:25   They could just say,

01:04:26   well, imagine the iPadOS interface,

01:04:28   imagine stage manager, but in VR,

01:04:31   we're gonna talk about this in a few minutes.

01:04:34   Or they could also do,

01:04:37   well, if you have a VR environment,

01:04:42   imagine if the interface for an app

01:04:49   was like around you.

01:04:52   I guess what I'm referring to is the difference

01:04:54   between looking at an app

01:04:59   versus being inside the app.

01:05:03   And the second one is more weird and difficult.

01:05:07   And it's not something that anybody has done at this point,

01:05:12   and I don't think Apple will do it.

01:05:14   I'm just proposing the idea here.

01:05:19   I don't think Apple will do it.

01:05:21   I think Apple will go for a more traditional approach,

01:05:23   which is the stage manager UI, but in 3D,

01:05:27   which we're gonna talk about shortly.

01:05:29   But just for the sake of our imagination,

01:05:32   imagine if, I don't know,

01:05:34   I'm gonna get weird for a second, but okay.

01:05:37   Imagine if like files, right?

01:05:42   Imagine if your file manager,

01:05:43   you were literally standing in a field of files and folders

01:05:48   all around you.

01:05:50   Or imagine if you were literally standing, I don't know,

01:05:55   on top of a box with all your documents.

01:05:58   Or I don't know, you see,

01:06:02   try to move away from the idea

01:06:04   of a 2D representation of a window, but in VR,

01:06:09   and instead try and think,

01:06:10   what if you actually designed an operating system

01:06:15   from scratch in 3D?

01:06:18   Because the computing that we've seen so far in VR,

01:06:23   my experiments with Windows, for example,

01:06:26   those are literally just your computer screen, but in VR.

01:06:30   It's like you have taken traditional computing

01:06:38   and put it in a virtual television in a VR space.

01:06:43   And that's fine, and that works.

01:06:46   But it could also be,

01:06:48   I think it would be fascinating over the next few years

01:06:52   to actually say, well, what if the OS was designed

01:06:57   as a 360 degree, sort of 3D space to begin with?

01:07:02   That could be cool.

01:07:07   We have some examples of this already.

01:07:09   For example, FaceTime, FaceTime calls

01:07:13   are likely gonna be a virtual space with Memoji and avatars,

01:07:17   and you're gonna have a FaceTime call in a virtual space.

01:07:21   On a phone, like I don't think they will do FaceTime, right?

01:07:26   I don't think they will do FaceTime

01:07:27   in the Apple reality headset,

01:07:29   and that FaceTime is gonna be a window

01:07:33   with the FaceTime call.

01:07:34   - No, that's gonna be like the Horizon Workrooms idea,

01:07:39   the two people in a room together, yeah.

01:07:42   - That's what I'm referring to.

01:07:43   - And I think that the Apple TV app

01:07:45   will have VR content in it myself.

01:07:50   I think that they're gonna do that.

01:07:52   - So my question is, what is an OS

01:07:57   that is designed from scratch for 3D?

01:08:01   And is that what Apple has done?

01:08:03   - I think realistically, what we will get

01:08:06   is a hybrid approach.

01:08:08   I think we will get some types of experiences

01:08:11   that are fully reimagined for 3D.

01:08:14   FaceTime calls, meetings, some games.

01:08:20   I could see Apple getting weird in a good way

01:08:24   with maybe music.

01:08:26   Freeform, I think is an excellent candidate

01:08:28   for a fully 3D rethought.

01:08:32   Like imagine if Freeform,

01:08:34   instead of staring at a window that is a whiteboard,

01:08:37   imagine if you're actually in a room

01:08:39   that is a physical sandbox.

01:08:41   - So say a headset compatible version

01:08:42   of its new Freeform app could let you collaborate

01:08:45   with others in mixed reality.

01:08:46   I think that one will be like,

01:08:50   you are in the Freeform board as such

01:08:52   and like moving things around.

01:08:54   And that's what I, what you were circling around

01:08:57   is where I'm coming from with this.

01:09:00   I think that there, it will be and should be

01:09:02   a mixed approach that like,

01:09:04   all of those apps that I mentioned,

01:09:06   I do not want 3D versions of these apps.

01:09:09   Like I do not need to be inside of my calendar

01:09:13   walking around, right?

01:09:15   Like I'm good to just-- - But you could be.

01:09:17   - I could be but I don't want to be.

01:09:19   You know like, oh, you know you wanna get to tomorrow

01:09:23   where you gotta climb down the days, you know?

01:09:26   Like physically climbing through the squares.

01:09:28   Like there are, there are four VR, four AR,

01:09:33   there will be types of apps and experiences

01:09:38   that will naturally suit to being re-imagined

01:09:42   inside of some kind of 3D.

01:09:44   And I think a lot of collaborative stuff

01:09:49   will be able to maybe lean into that a little bit more.

01:09:53   And anything you're doing with somebody else

01:09:55   like in real time, you could maybe find something fun

01:09:58   to do with that.

01:09:59   - I want shortcuts on the Apple headset

01:10:02   to be a physical Ruby Goldberg machine.

01:10:04   - Oh my God, can you imagine?

01:10:05   - Can you, but seriously, but can you imagine that?

01:10:07   - You have to like pull pieces of string

01:10:09   from one element to another one?

01:10:11   - Seriously, how fun could that be?

01:10:13   - But like, no one really wants to work that way though,

01:10:18   right?

01:10:18   You know what I mean? - Yeah, I know, I know.

01:10:19   - Like these would be fun demos.

01:10:21   - Yes.

01:10:22   - But this is less effective, this is less efficient

01:10:26   where like what you want is to enhance

01:10:28   where these things can make you more efficient.

01:10:31   And a VR call as opposed to a FaceTime call

01:10:36   or an audio call is better in a bunch of ways

01:10:41   which are good and important.

01:10:42   And I think that's what they're gonna focus on.

01:10:45   And so like that's the kind of stuff

01:10:47   that I think would make sense, having this mixed approach.

01:10:50   The same as like the operating system itself,

01:10:53   I actually want the operating system to be pretty light.

01:10:57   Like my ideal is that the operating system is like,

01:11:02   part of it is the room that I'm in, right?

01:11:04   That like, I'm not looking at a square

01:11:09   which has windows in.

01:11:11   I wanna be able to take messages and put it over there,

01:11:14   right, and then when I look, like physically look

01:11:17   to the left, that's where messages is.

01:11:19   - Yes.

01:11:20   - But it's like a window of its own over there,

01:11:21   you know what I mean?

01:11:22   - Yes.

01:11:23   - You know, like we both use these tools

01:11:25   where like you're bringing your apps into the headset

01:11:29   but it's a screen.

01:11:30   Well, I want everything to be broken free of the screens.

01:11:35   - Yes.

01:11:36   - Like I had a conversation about this

01:11:38   probably over a year ago now with Underscore

01:11:41   and we were talking about widgets, right?

01:11:43   And he was like, well, I could imagine that like

01:11:46   you would just have widgets but you would just like

01:11:48   stick them to your physical wall, right?

01:11:50   Like in the space.

01:11:52   So like you pin your weather widget to like over there

01:11:57   on the wall and you just turn and look at that widget

01:12:00   but it's always there.

01:12:02   Like stuff like that I wanna see more of.

01:12:04   That and that is like bringing these 2D apps

01:12:07   into a 3D space rather than trying to create a 3D version

01:12:12   of the home app where you're like flicking a bunch

01:12:15   of physical switches and stuff like that, you know.

01:12:18   - But still, I mean, of course that sort of,

01:12:22   that idea is like the,

01:12:26   it's this Qomorphic equivalent of VR.

01:12:29   - And we're gonna get tons of third party apps

01:12:32   that work like this.

01:12:34   - Well, at the same time, like when I say

01:12:36   what does it mean to design in 3D?

01:12:38   At the same time, we should also keep in mind

01:12:40   that the design story, the software

01:12:45   and the UI design story for the headset will be fascinating

01:12:51   because you don't need to recreate 3D spaces

01:12:55   for 3D design to be interesting and a challenge

01:12:59   for designers and developers.

01:13:01   Because even if you keep the traditional window-based

01:13:05   approach in 3D, you're still gonna have,

01:13:09   you're still gonna have some aspects of design

01:13:16   to account for that you do not have on a regular display

01:13:21   or on a phone, the idea of depth, like a physical depth.

01:13:25   Like what kind of tools is Apple gonna offer designers

01:13:29   and developers to create multiple layers of an interface

01:13:34   in front of you or around you?

01:13:36   Like you don't need to recreate a folder full of files.

01:13:41   You don't need to recreate a physical calendar.

01:13:44   But even if you keep the regular window,

01:13:47   you're still in 3D.

01:13:48   And so what does it mean to, for example,

01:13:50   to highlight something?

01:13:52   What does it mean to select something?

01:13:54   What is the VR equivalent of the focus engine for tvOS?

01:13:59   Like what is the VR equivalent of a parallax effect?

01:14:04   - I mean, I track it baby.

01:14:05   Like I think there will be a focus engine.

01:14:08   - Even without having to recreate fully 3D experiences,

01:14:14   it's still gonna be interesting to see how Apple

01:14:18   is going to adapt their existing designs for 3D.

01:14:23   And if all they do is literally,

01:14:25   oh, it's the iPad version, but now it's,

01:14:27   you can look at it in VR, that's boring, right?

01:14:30   There have to be some 3D specific enhancements.

01:14:34   And I am confident that there will be.

01:14:37   The idea of iPad apps though,

01:14:42   stands out to me for another reason,

01:14:45   which is Gurman reports that the home screen

01:14:47   of the headset will look largely similar

01:14:50   to the current version of iPadOS.

01:14:53   So the next obvious question is,

01:14:55   and this is something that we speculated about months ago,

01:14:58   I believe we actually talked about this last year

01:15:01   when I was complaining about Stage Manager.

01:15:03   Stage Manager in VR, right?

01:15:09   We speculated months ago that everything

01:15:13   about the Stage Manager design looked like it was something

01:15:18   that was being built in preparation for a VR environment.

01:15:24   Just this idea of this window previews on one side

01:15:29   and the main windows sort of swooping in from the side

01:15:32   with a very much 3D based animation and look.

01:15:39   And my idea is that Stage Manager from that perspective

01:15:44   makes a lot of sense as the UI to manage multitasking

01:15:49   in a VR environment.

01:15:52   And in fact, if this theory is correct,

01:15:55   I actually think that I'm gonna like Stage Manager

01:15:58   a lot more in VR than I like it on my iPad,

01:16:02   or than I like it on macOS.

01:16:05   It would explain a lot of the characteristics of Stage Manager

01:16:09   from how Stage Manager wants to help you

01:16:13   with window placement,

01:16:15   how it insists on never fully covering something

01:16:19   that is behind,

01:16:20   how it doesn't give you pixel-based precision

01:16:25   for resizing a window.

01:16:27   Like all of those sort of helping tools

01:16:31   would make a lot of sense for VR.

01:16:33   - I mean, maybe, I wanna have a lot of tactility.

01:16:36   I wanna be able to pick a just grab and throw an app

01:16:38   wherever I want it, right? - Sure.

01:16:41   But you're probably not gonna need the same precision

01:16:44   that you need with a mouse and a cursor.

01:16:46   You're gonna be more sloppy

01:16:49   because that's just how it's gonna work in VR.

01:16:52   It's imprecise, right?

01:16:54   I think Stage Manager will make a lot of sense

01:16:58   in that context.

01:16:59   But let me go one layer deeper here.

01:17:03   What do we think, and by we, I mean I'm asking you.

01:17:11   (laughing)

01:17:13   It's the royal you. - It's left it to a paracle.

01:17:16   - It's the royal you.

01:17:16   - Okay.

01:17:17   - What do we think of,

01:17:20   this maybe sounds a little strange,

01:17:24   iPadOS as nothing but a vehicle

01:17:29   to get to VR eventually?

01:17:31   Like what if iPadOS all along,

01:17:34   it was never meant to be a true replacement for MacOS,

01:17:38   but it was all work that needed to be done

01:17:42   in preparation for the headset?

01:17:43   - No, I think that the horizon was too far on that.

01:17:47   I could imagine that there are things

01:17:50   that they have done since that other idea.

01:17:54   I've seen a lot of people, and we talk about this,

01:17:58   I'm not 100% convinced about this idea

01:18:00   of Stage Manager as the way to do it,

01:18:03   but I could imagine how that could have been the case,

01:18:05   that they created this feature

01:18:07   because it made sense to do it their way,

01:18:10   so then it would stretch across to other things.

01:18:12   But I genuinely do not believe

01:18:16   that even at the time when iPadOS was created,

01:18:19   that Apple were seriously targeting VR.

01:18:24   I think that that has been a much sooner thing.

01:18:27   - I'm trying to bring some theories together,

01:18:31   and I have a slightly different one.

01:18:37   So what if, and I'm wondering here,

01:18:40   so you and Jason spoke about an upgrade,

01:18:43   about like when Jason published his article

01:18:46   about the iPad Pro being a mistake,

01:18:49   and both of you talked about this idea

01:18:54   of maybe up until some point,

01:18:58   Apple was convinced that iPadOS

01:19:01   was gonna replace the Mac eventually,

01:19:03   but then they changed their mind

01:19:05   and realized people love the Mac.

01:19:07   We need to go back to building up the Mac

01:19:11   as the foundation of everything we do on desktop

01:19:15   and keep investing on macOS,

01:19:17   and the Mac is better than ever, right?

01:19:22   - What if that, and I believe Jason or you said,

01:19:27   yeah, we heard from somebody who said,

01:19:29   yeah, that's pretty much what happened.

01:19:31   Well, what if that happened,

01:19:34   but then also Apple, at some point over the past few years,

01:19:39   said, well, what about all this work

01:19:42   that we've done with iPadOS?

01:19:44   Like, what if now we know that we're gonna

01:19:48   put all of our efforts for traditional computing

01:19:51   into macOS, and we know that three, four, five years from now

01:19:55   macOS is also gonna support touch and hybrid machines.

01:20:00   What about all this work that we've done?

01:20:02   Well, why don't we use it for the headset?

01:20:06   - Yeah, I could imagine that there has been a point, right,

01:20:10   where they were like, let's use this

01:20:14   and continue developing this with the mind

01:20:18   that we could use it in this other place.

01:20:19   Like, yeah, maybe I misunderstood what you were saying

01:20:23   of like, I thought you were asking all the way back to 2010.

01:20:28   - No, no, no, no, no, I mean,

01:20:30   iPadOS is sort of the modern name of--

01:20:34   - Right, again, I don't even know if it's that far back.

01:20:38   - That's 2019, I wanna say.

01:20:41   - Yeah. - Like when they changed

01:20:43   the name, when I said iPadOS,

01:20:45   I meant when it was renamed to iPadOS.

01:20:47   - I think at some point between the naming of iPadOS

01:20:50   and now that could have happened, yes.

01:20:53   I don't know if it would have been straight away,

01:20:56   'cause I mean, maybe I'm not casting my mind back correctly,

01:20:59   but I don't even think we were talking about

01:21:01   this kind of stuff then as like a potential, I don't think.

01:21:04   - Not in, probably not in 2019,

01:21:08   but definitely in 2020, I think.

01:21:09   - Yeah, so maybe we were, but potentially, right?

01:21:14   Like, I could see it.

01:21:16   I think if there's one thing we know about Apple

01:21:18   is that they do like to try and find ways

01:21:20   to tie things together and to use elements

01:21:23   in one place and somewhere else, like all of iPadOS, right?

01:21:26   Like is ultimately work started on iPhone

01:21:31   and then they brought it over.

01:21:32   And then similarly, you look at Catalyst and SwiftUI, right?

01:21:37   And like now we're using this stuff

01:21:39   to then build apps and experiences on every device.

01:21:43   So like I could imagine that there was a point

01:21:44   where they were like, you know what?

01:21:46   We've done all this work and this is clearly not the thing,

01:21:51   but we could kind of kill two birds of one stone here

01:21:55   and develop some features that will work here

01:21:57   and will work there because let's be realistic, right?

01:22:01   If Apple creates a new OS today,

01:22:03   it's going to look more like iPadOS than macOS, right?

01:22:08   Like just like how apps look and how apps work,

01:22:13   surely is closer to iPadOS than macOS,

01:22:16   which they're not that far apart from each other these days,

01:22:19   but they are in some key ways.

01:22:20   And I could just imagine that that's just going to be

01:22:22   the natural thing.

01:22:23   So like that would be the target,

01:22:24   the platform I can imagine them adapting from.

01:22:27   Going back to this list, right?

01:22:32   Apple is apparently testing a camera app,

01:22:34   which would let you take pictures

01:22:35   using the many cameras on the device, which makes sense.

01:22:39   You'd be able to read books in VR.

01:22:41   I don't know what that means.

01:22:42   - Books in VR, the words are around you.

01:22:45   - Is there like a physical book

01:22:47   and you're turning the pages?

01:22:49   Like what is that?

01:22:50   - You have a giant physical book in front of you

01:22:52   and you physically kick the page.

01:22:56   - I mean, I don't know, man.

01:22:57   - Maybe the weird books menu makes sense in VR.

01:23:01   - In VR.

01:23:02   Meditate with an app.

01:23:04   Now this is one where I could imagine

01:23:06   Apple have made a full on experience for.

01:23:09   - Yeah, exactly.

01:23:11   See, yes, I agree.

01:23:12   Yes.

01:23:13   - Like there's no point making a meditation,

01:23:16   not no point, but like I can't imagine them

01:23:17   making a meditation app where it's just like,

01:23:19   you got a little clock

01:23:20   and you just look at the clock, right?

01:23:22   Like you're gonna be transported to a stream somewhere

01:23:25   or something and that'll be sweet.

01:23:27   We already mentioned Freeform,

01:23:29   but Freeform is the only productivity app.

01:23:31   The headset will also apparently support pages, numbers,

01:23:34   keynote, iMovie and GarageBand.

01:23:37   - Now GarageBand, now this--

01:23:39   - I don't know, like maybe we'll play Rockband or something?

01:23:42   Like, I don't know.

01:23:44   - Well, I mean, surely the timeline editor

01:23:49   will probably need to be like a traditional

01:23:51   2D editor design, but the instruments,

01:23:55   I mean, that could be fun, you know,

01:23:59   to put in the drop. - If they do it that way.

01:24:00   - If they do it that way, yeah.

01:24:02   - 'Cause pages, numbers, keynote,

01:24:04   I could imagine those being similar to Freeform

01:24:07   and like you actually collaborate on them together using,

01:24:11   and like you're in a space together working on the thing.

01:24:14   So like it still looks like an app,

01:24:16   but like maybe you bring these

01:24:18   into your collaborative VR calls

01:24:21   and you can work on these things together, maybe.

01:24:24   Apple apparently wants to make watching sports

01:24:27   a richer experience.

01:24:29   They bought a company many years ago called NextVR

01:24:33   and this company, I don't know if they still do it,

01:24:35   but like at the time they were using VR cameras

01:24:39   to record sporting events and concerts and stuff.

01:24:43   And so like, it seemed like Apple wanted this company

01:24:46   for a bunch of technology that developed

01:24:48   and for the ability to like go and record Coachella

01:24:53   and you could watch it on your Apple reality pro in VR.

01:24:57   Apparently as well, says Mark Gurman,

01:25:01   gaming will be a central piece of the device's appeal.

01:25:06   - Okay.

01:25:07   - No, I don't know how yet.

01:25:09   - It doesn't have controllers?

01:25:11   - No. - Okay.

01:25:12   - And you know, like we spoken about this ad nauseum

01:25:16   on the show, like, you know, there are experiences

01:25:19   you can make with our controllers

01:25:20   and maybe their hand tracking is that good

01:25:22   that it can make some interesting stuff.

01:25:24   But if you wanna be immersed in a game

01:25:27   and you're supposed to be holding,

01:25:30   I should say a gun, right?

01:25:31   'Cause there's so many first person shooters,

01:25:34   being able to hold a physical controller is important.

01:25:36   And so like, but any type of game,

01:25:41   if you're doing a Wii sports like game, right?

01:25:44   Like if you wanna be holding a baseball bat,

01:25:48   you wanna at least have something in your hand,

01:25:50   like, I don't know.

01:25:51   We'll have to wait and see on that.

01:25:53   Like I remain unconvinced that all gaming

01:25:56   can be done with just hand tracking

01:25:59   and we can hope that there will be

01:26:01   some kind of controller story.

01:26:03   - Maybe you can play a first person shooter

01:26:05   doing finger guns, you know.

01:26:07   - Pew, pew, pew.

01:26:08   - Maybe you can do that. - Pew, pew, pew, pew.

01:26:10   You have to make that noise every time.

01:26:12   Can you imagine?

01:26:15   - I'm just trying to imagine. - You know someone's

01:26:16   gonna do it, right?

01:26:17   - I'm trying to imagine Call of Duty played like that.

01:26:20   (imitates gun firing)

01:26:23   - Yeah, someone's gonna do that.

01:26:24   Someone's gonna make that video game.

01:26:26   But that shouldn't be the video game experience, you know?

01:26:29   Like I want it to be a little bit more,

01:26:31   I don't know, well thought out than that.

01:26:34   Like, I don't know, right?

01:26:37   Like maybe someone, maybe they're gonna,

01:26:38   maybe it's all gonna be figured out

01:26:40   and I'm just not seeing it yet.

01:26:43   But at the same time, I have also said,

01:26:45   like and I continue to say that like,

01:26:48   most VR games to me feel like experiences rather than games.

01:26:53   So like maybe by and large,

01:26:56   the like idea of what is a good VR game

01:26:59   has not been cracked yet

01:27:00   and maybe controllers are what's getting in the way, right?

01:27:03   - Maybe, maybe, maybe.

01:27:05   I'm intrigued, the last thing I wanted to say,

01:27:09   I'm intrigued by this idea that Marc reported

01:27:12   of the spatial awareness of this device.

01:27:16   So the idea that like you can leave a Safari window open

01:27:20   in the kitchen and place say Apple Music

01:27:24   by the couch in the living room.

01:27:27   This idea of like different position,

01:27:30   different placements for apps.

01:27:34   I am super intrigued by this.

01:27:35   And if you think about it,

01:27:38   like it makes a lot of sense to tie specific apps

01:27:43   and experiences to different places in the home.

01:27:46   It also makes a lot of sense if this is possible

01:27:49   in the context of HomeKit.

01:27:52   Imagine if you're wearing the headset

01:27:54   and you look at where a light switch would be

01:27:57   or where a light in the ceiling would be.

01:28:01   And if you could say turn that off just by looking at it,

01:28:05   because maybe somehow it's aware

01:28:07   of the position of the accessory.

01:28:09   Like once you, again, once you start thinking in 3D

01:28:13   with the device that is aware of your position

01:28:16   in a physical 3D space

01:28:18   and of the position of the accessories around you,

01:28:22   that becomes very fascinating to imagine the potential

01:28:25   down the road for this kind of stuff.

01:28:28   I don't think they will do the HomeKit integration

01:28:30   in this for a few years,

01:28:32   because probably need sensors in each accessory

01:28:35   that tell you exactly where something is, but still.

01:28:39   - You could mean with an element of AR and LIDAR

01:28:44   and you being able to, and like object recognition,

01:28:49   you might be able to get some of the way

01:28:50   and then you can just tell it,

01:28:52   it's just like, oh, I want to put a light switch,

01:28:53   where's the light switch, it's there,

01:28:55   and it's the last and only time you ever have to tell it

01:28:57   that information.

01:28:58   - Maybe, maybe, maybe.

01:29:00   So I don't know, this idea of pinning certain apps

01:29:05   to certain places in the home, very cool.

01:29:10   And also like we know that this headset

01:29:12   is gonna have a dial to move in between AR and sort of AR.

01:29:17   So you can spin the dial.

01:29:20   - Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:29:21   - You know, and move between different types of reality.

01:29:24   Is it gonna automatically do that

01:29:27   if it recognizes that you start walking?

01:29:29   Like if I'm working at my desk,

01:29:31   but I'm wearing the headset and I get up

01:29:34   because I need to go grab something in the kitchen,

01:29:37   does it automatically bring me into AR mode

01:29:42   so that I can walk without bumping into the door or whatever?

01:29:46   Could do it.

01:29:47   - I mean, I could assume it would work similar

01:29:51   to how the PlayStation does, how the Oculus does,

01:29:55   where like it is aware of certain environments

01:29:58   where you can be in full VR,

01:29:59   but once you leave that barrier,

01:30:02   it's gonna adjust it for you.

01:30:05   Because that's just being safe, isn't it?

01:30:08   - Or maybe there should be,

01:30:09   I'm sure there will be multiple,

01:30:12   dozens and dozens of accessibility settings

01:30:14   for this device, and maybe there should be one of them,

01:30:17   like it would be the equivalent of removing

01:30:21   one of your AirPods and it pauses music.

01:30:26   Like, oh, I just got up and I'm walking,

01:30:29   instantly switch me over to AR.

01:30:32   - What I'm really hoping for this device

01:30:34   compared to the MetaQuest Pro that I own is like,

01:30:37   so the MetaQuest Pro is great

01:30:38   because it has full color pass-through.

01:30:41   - Yes.

01:30:42   - But the quality of the image is quite low.

01:30:44   - Yeah, my old Quest 2 is not color,

01:30:49   it's black and white pass-through,

01:30:51   actually grayscale pass-through,

01:30:53   and the image quality is bad, really bad.

01:30:58   - The image is very grainy is the way I would describe it

01:31:01   on the, even on the Quest Pro.

01:31:03   But the color really does make a difference.

01:31:06   This is the thing that I'm hoping for for Apple

01:31:08   to really nail that piece down,

01:31:10   like so it looks as close to real life as possible.

01:31:14   Again, the device will cost $3,000.

01:31:17   I kind of expect nothing less, but that's what it costs.

01:31:21   I will say as we get closer and closer to this

01:31:23   and we get more and more information

01:31:24   and talk about it more and more,

01:31:25   I'm getting more and more excited about it.

01:31:27   - Oh, me too, me too.

01:31:28   And this thing is gonna be so expensive.

01:31:31   But yeah, I'm excited.

01:31:34   I mean, it's something brand new from Apple

01:31:38   and that they have, see the thing is,

01:31:41   they have invested so much time and resources into this.

01:31:45   That's part of my excitement for it.

01:31:50   It's like, I really wanna see what you've done here

01:31:53   because you've been building this up for so many years

01:31:55   with so much time and so much money.

01:31:58   I am intrigued at this point.

01:32:00   Like, I wanna see what you've done.

01:32:02   - So what we're saying is we can't wait to see

01:32:04   what they've done with it.

01:32:05   - That's what we're saying.

01:32:06   - Yep, that's good, yep.

01:32:09   - Thank you very much for listening

01:32:10   to this episode of Connected.

01:32:11   If you would like to get show notes for this episode,

01:32:14   you can find them in your podcast app of choice

01:32:16   or also on the web over at relay.fm/connected/446.

01:32:20   You will also find links on that page to send us feedback

01:32:23   or you can go to connectofeedback.com to do that.

01:32:26   If you wanna find Federico Vittucci online,

01:32:28   you can go to maxstories.net and he's also on Mastodon.

01:32:32   He is @vittucci, V-I-T-I-C-C-I on mastodon.maxstories.net.

01:32:37   You can find me as @imike, I-M-Y-K-E on mike.social

01:32:42   and you can find Steven as @ismh on eworld.social

01:32:47   and that's where you can send him your first Mac

01:32:49   in the year you got it in parentheses please.

01:32:52   Thank you so much to our sponsors of this week's episode,

01:32:55   Electric and FitBard and thank you to our members

01:32:58   who support us.

01:32:59   You can join too by going to getconnecttopro.co

01:33:03   where you get longer ad-free versions of every episode.

01:33:06   We'll be back next week I believe as a trio next week.

01:33:11   I do hope so, which would be nice.

01:33:13   Although I do love these intimate episodes

01:33:15   that we have Federico.

01:33:17   - Yes, me too.

01:33:18   - Just the two of us.

01:33:19   I don't know why I said the word intimate

01:33:20   but that's how I was feeling in the moment

01:33:23   and I hope everyone's okay with it.

01:33:24   We'll be back next time.

01:33:27   Until then, say goodbye, Federico.

01:33:30   - Arrivederci.