456: The Official Journal of Journaling


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:08   From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 456. Today's show is brought to you by ZocDoc,

00:00:16   Ladder, and Factor. My name is Mike Hurley, I'm joined by Jason Snell. Hi, Jason Snell.

00:00:21   Hi, Mike Hurley. Where am I? You're at home, we're gonna talk about that later on. Jason's had a busy

00:00:28   morning, but that's gonna come up in follow-up because right now, I have a Snell Talk question

00:00:32   for you. It comes from Kevin, who wants to know, "Jason, if you're working on a document of some

00:00:37   kind that features formatting, do you apply the formatting as you go along, like bold text,

00:00:42   underlined text, etc., or do you do everything afterwards?" This is a weird... apologies to Kevin,

00:00:50   but I react to the idea that you write everything first and apply formatting later as almost like

00:00:57   like an a—coming from an alien. Yeah, yeah. I can see how maybe, if you're writing, first off,

00:01:04   I mean, most of the formatting I do is just the occasional link or bold or italic, and I just do

00:01:11   that as I write. Headers, I do those as I write because I'm writing in markdown. I can see how

00:01:17   you might, from time to time, end up having to go back through a document and put some structure to

00:01:21   it, and that that might be a reason to format it after the fact, but for the most part, to answer

00:01:26   the question directly, for the most part, no. I am doing the formatting as part of my creation of

00:01:33   documents and that it all just kind of comes out as whatever format it needs to be in.

00:01:38   I knew the answer to this as I started writing, entering this information, and I bolded Kevin's

00:01:44   name in the Google doc before I wrote it. You know, I pressed, you know, command B, and then

00:01:49   wrote Kevin and then pasted the document in it, like his question into our Google doc.

00:01:54   I was like, yeah, I know how I am. This was one of those questions to me too, where I was like,

00:01:59   I didn't think there was another way people did this. I may go back once a document's done and

00:02:05   add some stuff, but as I'm going through, if there's formatting I know I need, I'm going to

00:02:11   add it. This makes me feel like Kevin is one of the former rather than the latter, you know?

00:02:17   That Kevin applies all of the formatting at the end. Yeah, maybe so. Maybe not. Maybe Kevin

00:02:24   thought somebody else is a formatting alien and not him. I don't know. I just, I find it, again,

00:02:32   I think there are probably workflows where it makes sense to do your work on the document,

00:02:37   because there's complex formatting things to do afterward, but I never even consider that for the

00:02:44   stuff that I do. If you would like to send in a question of your own to be featured to help us

00:02:51   open an episode of Upgrade in the future, you can send in your Snell Talk question by going

00:02:56   to upgradefeedback.com or clicking the link in your show notes and you can submit your question

00:03:01   there. Thank you to everybody that does. We have some follow-up to Snell, including something new

00:03:08   for the show. So we've been talking about this mostly on Upgrade Plus, maybe over the last month

00:03:13   or so. If you wonder what that is, go to getupgradeplus.com. You can sign up and get

00:03:18   additional content every single week. But we are experimenting with making short video clips of the

00:03:24   show that we're posting on various social media outlets. Upgrade is not becoming a video podcast.

00:03:32   In fact, we have cameras recording us right now, but we do not see each other. We don't have them

00:03:38   turned on. They're just making local recordings so that the podcast remains an audio only experience.

00:03:44   It doesn't feature me saying, "Hey Jason, take a look at this." And none of you can see it.

00:03:48   So we thought long and hard about this and this is how we've been doing it and trying to test it out.

00:03:53   So we don't want to change the experience for you. But what we were trying to do here is to see,

00:03:58   it seems like this happens more and more these days that people make clips out of their podcasts.

00:04:03   Does it actually work in helping the show find new people? That's what we're trying to find out.

00:04:09   Yeah, we don't know. We don't know. It's fun right now. I think people who listen to the show

00:04:14   are having fun seeing the clips. I know the podcast I listen to that have started doing this.

00:04:19   I think it's kind of fun to see the clips, but they don't release the whole episode.

00:04:21   And maybe down the road, it will help us find some new people. And that would be nice too.

00:04:28   But we're just experimenting with it. This may be a best practice in doing podcast promotion.

00:04:33   And we want to try it out in a way that doesn't actually impact the way we do the show.

00:04:38   So unless there's, I mean, it's possible we'll do like a Summer of Fun episode or something where we

00:04:43   do a special something and there's a video of it. But we're not planning on, like this is not

00:04:49   going to be a video podcast because we do not want that to be what it is. But we'll try to post short

00:04:55   clips of things on social media. TikTok and Instagram. I almost said TikTak. What we're

00:05:03   going to do is we're going to make breath mints. That's our pivot. Pivot to breath mints now.

00:05:09   Upgrade your breath.

00:05:10   Yes, upgradebrand.com.

00:05:12   Upgradebreath.com. I love it. No, we're not doing that. You can find, we're posting these to

00:05:19   Instagram and TikTok. You may have been given away the fact that me and Jason don't understand how to

00:05:24   use TikTok. It's just, look, I've been up a long time and it's still Monday morning. Friend of the

00:05:30   show and official video consultant, Jeremy Burge. Jeremy Burge is our, yes, he is, he, for those who

00:05:41   don't know Jeremy Burge, founder of Emojipedia, currently a gentleman of leisure, I believe,

00:05:45   after selling Emojipedia. One of the things that he has done is he is a TikTok star about boats.

00:05:54   Mm-hmm.

00:05:56   About his boat in particular, his canal boat that he drives around, or pilots, I don't know,

00:06:01   in the canals in England. And he has learned a lot about posting little video clips to the socials,

00:06:08   and he's providing us advice and help. And we thank him for that. So I'm currently producing

00:06:14   all the clips. In the long run, that will probably have to go to someone else. But for now,

00:06:18   I'm trying to figure out what I want them to be like. And I would like, at some point, to add to

00:06:24   your list of things, Mike, note where you think there was a thing that happened that was fun that

00:06:30   might be worth a clip. That's good. I could do that while I'm taking my editing notes. While

00:06:34   you're taking your notes. I'll keep that in mind. That would help me. But yeah, we're just

00:06:38   experimenting with it. We're doing them as vertical videos, because again, the kids on the TikToks,

00:06:44   on their breath mints. This is one of those things where,

00:06:47   seriously, for this to make any sense, it has to hit algorithms. If we're doing this to try and

00:06:56   help new people find the show, you've got to be in the places where there's algorithms. Right now,

00:07:00   we're trying Instagram and TikTok. Maybe we'll try YouTube in the future as well.

00:07:03   I like how you said that too. The places where there are algorithms. We need to find the

00:07:07   algorithms. Where are they? Get them in here. We can post this to Mastodon, and that's fine.

00:07:11   And existing listeners will see them. But I don't think that's going to help us

00:07:16   potentially grow the audience, find new people. By putting them on Mastodon.

00:07:20   I've been posting them there as an experiment, and also because it's kind of fun. But yeah,

00:07:24   I think the idea is, what you want is to find people who will be inclined to discover the show,

00:07:31   because the algorithm has sort of said, this is the kind of content you might be interested in.

00:07:36   And get some new listeners, just because I think it's fun. And also because I think we're also

00:07:41   doing this because we don't want to be the kind of people who look at a thing that seems to be

00:07:47   a new way of doing podcast stuff, and be the people who are like, "No, no, no, no, no. Surely

00:07:56   it is the children who are wrong." Right? We don't want to be those people. I want to be open to this.

00:08:00   This may end up being impractical for us. It may not have a real benefit, and it may be too much

00:08:05   overhead. But I think we need to experiment with it and not just poo-poo it. So we're going to give

00:08:14   it a try. And I appreciate you pushing us. Without ruining the audio podcast by having that like,

00:08:19   "Whoa, Mike, what's that? Look over there. Oh, can you believe that thing?" "There's someone

00:08:23   behind you." "Whoa." Yeah. We're not doing that. We're not doing that. So we mentioned you've had

00:08:30   a busy morning. We're recording this at what's 10 a.m. for you, but you've already been on a

00:08:36   plane today. Yeah, I got up at, I mean, the alarm was set for 4.45. I was up at 4.30.

00:08:43   And we were visiting our kids. Our kids would go to college at the same college for this year only,

00:08:48   because my daughter's a senior and my son's a freshman. And so we visited them, and it turns

00:08:53   out that there are flights back and forth between Eugene and the Bay Area are limited. And there

00:09:00   seemed to be no Sunday night flight. So we decided we would just have the very early morning,

00:09:07   Monday morning flight. And so we, you know, got up and took a cab to the airport, and then,

00:09:14   you know, waited at the airport and got on the plane and then had to get the parking shuttle

00:09:19   to our car. And then I had to drive Lauren to her job directly and drop her off and then come here.

00:09:26   And then just before we started, I made some tea and, not my first tea of the day, but made some

00:09:32   tea and made some English muffin with peanut butter so I would have protein in my body and

00:09:40   be as coherent as one might want on a podcast. Podcasts need protein. Everyone knows that.

00:09:47   Yeah, I mean, sure, everybody needs protein. Podcasts especially.

00:09:52   But why is this related to technology, Mike? So you sent me an iMessage this morning,

00:09:58   which is a rare occurrence for me and you to iMessage. I don't know why we do this,

00:10:02   but we always just talk in Slack. I think we just got used to it. We have like, we talk all the time,

00:10:06   but we just talk in Slack. But you sent me an iMessage of a flighty link for me to track your

00:10:13   flight, which was a great experience because I had a live activity on my iPhone that I was able to

00:10:20   monitor through the morning as you were flying. So I knew when you were landing so I could kind

00:10:24   of plan my day out a little bit. I was able to take advantage of the newer feature in Flighty,

00:10:29   which is to designate a flight as a friend's flight so it doesn't show up in your stats and it's in a

00:10:34   different part of the app. And the iMessage experience is really good because you sent

00:10:38   me the link. I tapped the link and it just opened the Flighty app for me, which I already have.

00:10:44   I'm a big fan of Flighty. If you don't have it, you get a webpage that's got the information in

00:10:49   it. Which is even better, right? That they actually have that. It's not like, I mean,

00:10:55   I'm sure there's a button in here that says View Full Details and I'm sure that on the web view,

00:11:00   I'm sure that takes you to like, "Hey, you should get Flighty." But it's not like the web view is

00:11:03   just like, "You can't look at this without..." You know? Which is a bit...

00:11:07   - Right. Because it's meant to be shared with people. That's the point of it, right? It's like,

00:11:12   "Hey, I'm traveling," and then you text your person you're going to see or family member or

00:11:18   whatever it is and say, "Here's my flight info." And they can actually see like, they got off on

00:11:22   time. They're going to get on time and all that. I mean, then it took me like an hour

00:11:26   plus to drive plus the shuttle to the... I mean, there was a lot more. After we landed,

00:11:32   it took another hour and a half to get home. So yeah.

00:11:39   - I was tempted to text you and be like, "Five minutes to go." I'm not going to leave you alone.

00:11:44   I'm not going to be alone. But I was like, the Flighty live activities, I think it's gotten even

00:11:50   better since the last time I used it. I looked at it at one moment and it was giving like a

00:11:55   countdown like in minutes and seconds until you were going to land. It's like, "Oh, I didn't even

00:11:59   know live activities could do that." I hadn't seen one other than the official one do like a

00:12:05   countdown like that. Just the design of the live activities is so good. Flighty is a top-tier

00:12:10   application. It was just another experience I'd had of it today that was really cool.

00:12:15   - It's not cheap. - No.

00:12:17   - And so, you know, it's not for everybody. - Top-tier and price too.

00:12:19   - But it is so great. So yeah, that was... So yeah, I'm a little discombobulated today. It's because

00:12:27   it was a very unusual morning, but now I'm just sitting at my desk doing an upgrade. So now it

00:12:34   feels like every other Monday morning. - Well, allow me to take you on a

00:12:38   rumor roundup, Jason Snow. Maybe that will help out. Let me give you the lay of the land,

00:12:42   what's been going on over the last few days. Although there is a lot more bigger rumors we're

00:12:47   going to talk about later on in the episode today. We are fully in rumor season right now,

00:12:51   where the roundup has broken free and it's all over the town, you know?

00:12:55   9to5Mac is reporting that the iPhone 15 and 15 Pro may feature a frosted glass back. These were

00:13:04   leaks posted to Weibo, which have given them the indication this would occur.

00:13:08   There is a question I have for you here is, could we be seeing a glass finish swap? So the Pro

00:13:16   phones have had frosted glass for many years now and the regular phones... I said 15 Pro,

00:13:23   I meant to say 15 Max. The iPhone 15 and 15 Max. That is my correction that I'm giving you.

00:13:28   - 15 Plus, wouldn't it be? - Plus, that's the one. Plus.

00:13:33   Nobody remembers the name of this phone anymore. It's too confusing. The iPhone 15 and 15 Plus

00:13:37   may feature a frosted glass back. So the Pro phones have had frosted glass, the regular

00:13:44   phones have had a kind of like a matte texture, regular glass. I'm wondering if they're going to

00:13:49   flip. I wouldn't call it matte texture. It's it's it's shiny glass, gripping and glass.

00:13:56   And it's bright. Well, OK, so here's the question. Is the reason that the iPhone lower models,

00:14:03   lower price models have been more colorful is because it works better with that glass?

00:14:07   And the reason the ones on the Pro models have been less colorful is because they had the frosted

00:14:12   glass? Or is it more just Apple's differentiation between them? Because what I don't want to see is

00:14:19   that the low end phones get boring like the high end phones are in terms of color, although it

00:14:23   would be nice if the higher end phones had color as well. But it's all a mystery, right? Like it

00:14:29   is the stated opinion of the upgrade program that Apple's products should all be more colorful than

00:14:35   they are. So I would if they do this, I would hate for it to mean that the iPhone 15 and 15 Plus are

00:14:42   muted in some way. That there are more that there isn't an option for something with a

00:14:48   brighter color that Apple said, you know what? We let our color excitement get away from us and we

00:14:55   actually made nice colors and we can't have that. So we're going to make we're going to dull it all

00:15:01   up a little bit. I hope that's not the case. I still don't quite understand Apple's strategy

00:15:05   with color and the iPhone. But I will say I'm interested in how this plays out because I have

00:15:12   felt for this entire generation of iPhones, the 12, 13, 14, that the low end model has been nicer

00:15:21   looking. I prefer how they look to the high end model because of the colors and because of the

00:15:28   nature of that glass back. So what's it going to be? I don't know. I mean, this is the problem is

00:15:38   these colors color. I feel color rumors are some of the worst rumors because I don't know. It just

00:15:44   feels to me like that's shaky ground. Apple can make decisions. Color is one of those things that

00:15:50   Apple can decide later on in the process. They just need to manufacture. They could have eight

00:15:55   colors going in and then decide on four or three when they actually ship them. We don't know. But

00:16:02   it's an interesting idea. I mean, they got to do something, right? They want these to feel a

00:16:06   little bit different. Otherwise, it's the exact same phone for three or four years in a row and

00:16:11   that's no good. So I'm remembering the pro phones are expected to get titanium frames. So there was

00:16:19   nine to five medical questioning if there could be something going on there that maybe they're

00:16:23   changing the way that the glass looks on the line in some way. Maybe it will match up better with

00:16:28   the titanium or they're just trying to potentially make the phones, as you say, just overall look

00:16:33   more different even though they're not changing, potentially not changing too much of the industrial

00:16:38   design. And I don't know enough about how the titanium manufacturing process works, but the

00:16:45   question would be also how does titanium coloration work, right? If there is an anodization-like

00:16:54   process for titanium that allows them to have it hold bright colors, then that would allow them to

00:17:01   do bright colors on those phones. If there isn't and it really just needs to be shades of gray with

00:17:08   a very subtle tint, then we're going to be back where we've been all along with those pro phones.

00:17:13   - I remember an Upgrading wrote into us a while ago, because we could question that,

00:17:16   like titanium can be, that color can be added to it. But what we don't know is like how much color,

00:17:24   you know, like yes, you can add a color, but like, is it bright or is it bold? Like, I don't

00:17:29   know the answer to that. And we also don't know what Apple will do, you know, because they have

00:17:35   their own ways of metallurgy. - I use my very clever upgrade search engine to see that that

00:17:41   was in episode 441 when Josh wrote in to let us know that titanium can in fact be anodized and the

00:17:49   colors can be quite vibrant. So maybe dream, dream here, dare to dream, maybe we'll get some pro phones

00:17:58   with brighter color options on the glass backs and on the anodized titanium or equivalent thereof

00:18:07   titanium frame. - Meiqi Kuo is reporting that the 15 inch MacBook Air will only offer an M2 chip.

00:18:14   It had previously been suggested that maybe an M2 Pro would be available in this model,

00:18:19   but now is saying it would just be two configurations of the M2, probably one,

00:18:25   this is my conjecture, I assume this would be one with a graphics, some description. Not a surprise,

00:18:31   I don't think. - No, if this is, if this, this computer has been described as a MacBook Air,

00:18:37   and if it's a MacBook Air, I think that implies that it doesn't have a fan. - Yep. - And therefore

00:18:42   it's not going to have a Pro chip in it. I think the, I think a lot of people got like,

00:18:46   ran away with this story and they're like, oh, it's not going to be an M2, it's going to be an M3

00:18:50   because the M3 is going to come out and then maybe it's going to be the Pro and all that.

00:18:55   By far the most likely scenario here is they're going to put this thing out

00:18:58   and then three months later or six months later, they're going to come out with an M3 MacBook Air

00:19:03   and people are going to go, oh no, who will buy the M2 MacBook Air if there's an M3 MacBook Air?

00:19:10   And the answer is going to be people who want a 15 inch laptop will buy it. That's the answer.

00:19:14   And it'll be fine. And they'll sync it up maybe at some point down the line. But yeah,

00:19:19   the 15 inch will have the M2, the 13 inch will have the M3. There's also a 13 inch that has the

00:19:23   M1 that might stick around. So like they make it work. And if there was any computer that I

00:19:29   thought might get the M2 Pro as a config, it would be the 13 inch MacBook Pro, right? Because that's

00:19:35   got a fan. So they could probably put the M2 Pro in it. And that would at least differentiate it

00:19:43   from the MacBook Air in some way and make it actually be a MacBook Pro in a way that it isn't

00:19:50   right now. That would be the one that if I had to guess, if they were revising anything to have the

00:19:57   M2 Pro in it, it would be that that 13 inch MacBook Pro. It might fit there.

00:20:03   - Mark Gurman was recently a guest on the Mac Rumor Show podcast where he shared that he believes

00:20:10   that while the Mac Pro is likely to be released this year, he does not expect it to be shown at

00:20:15   WWDC. Sorry Mac Pro fans. - Okay. I mean, there's a lot going on. Like having them say they probably

00:20:22   aren't gonna have room for that product or if it's gonna be late in the year. They're probably eyeing

00:20:29   another. I don't think the Mac Pro is gonna be an event kind of thing, right? But like,

00:20:36   is it gonna just be a press release? It might be. If they're not ready to show it now,

00:20:42   the other possibility is that there'll be a fall Mac event. I guess the question I have then is,

00:20:48   if you wait too long, you're gonna start rolling out M3 MacBook Air. And would you put out an M2

00:20:55   Macs, Mac Pro at the same time as an M3 low-end MacBook Air? Would that be too weird? I don't

00:21:01   know, but they could do whatever they want with the Mac Pro. Honestly, it's such a, I know that

00:21:05   it takes up an outsized part of our imagination as Mac aficionados, but they could do it with a

00:21:13   press release and a little video and it would be fine. Because the people who care are gonna care.

00:21:17   - They're gonna care no matter. - And nobody else will care because it's the lowest selling Mac,

00:21:22   and it's not important in most ways. I know the ways that it is important, but I'm just saying,

00:21:29   like in terms of Apple's Mac business, it's important as a flagship and maybe as a point

00:21:34   of pride about where Apple Silicon is, but it's not something that needs to be, like Apple,

00:21:39   I mean, nothing needs to be in an event other than the iPhone, I suppose, but certainly the Mac Pro

00:21:45   doesn't need to be an event. If it was, it would be WWDC. I still would hold out some hope that

00:21:51   they might tease it because it's been so long since John Turness. - I wouldn't do it again.

00:21:56   - That's another story. - I wouldn't tease it again. - Well, you know, they could, I mean,

00:22:00   they did, that's how they released the, was it the trash can or the, was it the... - Oh, you mean like

00:22:06   a full on... - Like a video with a silhouette and like, here it is and it's coming later this year

00:22:13   and we have more to share later and nothing else, right? - Unless they have a video like they did

00:22:18   with the trash can, like they did with the iMac Pro, like I wouldn't. - That's right. - Because

00:22:22   they made a mistake, like we spoke about this last week, like John Turness never should have

00:22:26   done that wink at the camera, like that was a mistake, right? It was over a year old now.

00:22:32   - Yeah, or they changed the path, right? And that got it delayed, so that would make it a mistake.

00:22:38   Again, it's that classic, like maybe this is why you shouldn't ever pre-announce literally anything

00:22:42   if you're gonna wink at the camera like that and then there's nothing. So, but wouldn't, I mean,

00:22:49   I'll take Mark at his word here that Mac Pro, not a WWDC, it may just be like they're looking

00:22:56   at the lineup and they're clearing the decks and it doesn't fit and so they'll do it later or it's

00:23:02   not ready and they'll do it later. - With what we've got to talk about later on with his kind of

00:23:06   report on what the headset will be doing, I don't know how there'll be time for anything else during

00:23:13   the WWDC presentation. - Yeah. - But we'll get to that later on. One last thing, Mark Gurman also on

00:23:18   the MacRumors show shared that he believes that Apple will only be enabling the ability for third

00:23:23   party app stores on iOS in regions that require it. So right now, they would be building this

00:23:30   feature potentially into iOS 17 just for the European Union due to the Digital Markets Act

00:23:36   and that will be the only place where you'll be able to quote unquote side load applications

00:23:40   in some form. - Yeah, that would fit Apple's behavior. - Yes, it would, yes. - It would only do the letter

00:23:48   of the law and no more. That said, and I said this before when we talked about it because we talked

00:23:55   about this a while ago and I think we got some feedback saying, but you're talking as if this is

00:24:01   going to be everywhere but wouldn't it just be in the EU? The answer is yes, perhaps, but I don't know.

00:24:08   I just feel like the moment that Apple opens this door somewhere, first off, the door will never

00:24:15   close and second, the door will just keep opening wider and wider and it will be how do I,

00:24:22   you know, right, download this thing or I'll sell you an account I made with a gift card in it for

00:24:31   an Apple ID from the EU or here's a spoofing thing you can do or use a VPN to enable this and

00:24:39   like, and I imagine that if you're in the EU and you enable this, they're not gonna like

00:24:45   kick out all the apps when you travel to the United States, right? So they can lock it to an

00:24:50   Apple ID or they can have it be like, there are ways that they can do that and I realize that it

00:24:54   might not be mainstream but like once the door is open, people will keep kicking it wider and wider

00:25:02   open. Plus it does actually give Apple a bargaining chip everywhere else in the world where they can

00:25:10   say, if you would like us to turn this on, if you know, if you regulate us to do this, we'll do it

00:25:15   for you too but because it's there but we're not going to do it unless you tell us to. Yeah, that's

00:25:20   what I would assume when you say about like the door being kicked open that it's governments

00:25:25   around the world kicking that door open, right? When they see that, yeah, we can ask Apple to do

00:25:30   this. I mean, they already did it so let's just do it. Just do it. Yeah, yeah, so I think it will

00:25:36   make it easier for everybody to sideload apps because there is a pathway and we will,

00:25:43   it will be found and exploited, right? And then secondly, it opens the door to

00:25:50   legislation that is a lot easier because they can look at Apple's feature and say, do that,

00:25:57   essentially, and know that it's already being done or they'll wait a little bit and watch and

00:26:03   see what happens in the EU. What we said before that bears repeating too is that Apple's claim

00:26:08   that sideloading is the devil and that it would be a disaster because curation in the app store and

00:26:16   etc, etc, like if they, if it happens in the EU, either Apple will be proven right,

00:26:24   which would be very interesting or I think more likely Apple's entire argument will be

00:26:30   shown to be utterly toothless but we'll find out one way or another, right? Like if they do this

00:26:35   and they say this is the road to perdition and then it happens in the EU and it's fine, then

00:26:41   that's the end of that argument for Apple. No, no, we meant in America.

00:26:46   Only in America is it bad. Anyway, so we'll see but yeah, I think, I think this is inevitable

00:26:55   once it starts. The avalanche will continue but it has to start first so we'll see if that happens

00:27:02   next year. This episode of Upgrade is brought to you by Factor. This spring you need nutritious,

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00:28:20   replenish your snack supply with an assortment of over 45 add-ons including breakfast items like egg

00:28:27   bites, smoothies and more. Jason did you go for protein plus because podcasters need protein?

00:28:32   I actually did chef's choice. Oh ho ho I'll have the chef's choice if you don't. Which is um

00:28:39   because none of those things particularly were appealed to me and like well that's what I want

00:28:43   and so I decided to go with chef's choice of like just you know send me your best, send me your good

00:28:50   stuff and we'll see. I've been especially um Lauren works uh on an evening so I've got one day a week

00:28:58   where it's just me for dinner and then I also have um frequently the dilemma of what I do for lunch

00:29:06   so I'm looking forward to trying these out. Oh yeah and I guess as well like in those situations

00:29:10   it is it can be like if you're used to cooking for multiple people if you're cooking for just

00:29:14   one person it's like a lot of effort right to cook a whole meal and like it's so difficult to cook

00:29:20   for just one person right because you have too many ingredients you end up with too many leftovers

00:29:26   that's awesome. I look forward to in future episodes hearing what the chef's choice provided you.

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00:30:05   of this show and all of Relay FM. The Wall Street Journal is reporting that Apple is developing a

00:30:14   journaling app that could possibly be unveiled with iOS 17. A quote from the journal. The Apple

00:30:20   journaling app, oh the journal, do you think it's a coincidence that the journal got information

00:30:25   about the journal app? Well I mean it is the official journal of journaling on Wall Street

00:30:30   so that makes sense. So maybe this is an app for Wall Street journals to journal? It is an app for

00:30:37   Wall Street journals. It is a journaling app. It is reported by the Wall Street Journal. Are you

00:30:42   getting it yet? It's an app. The Wall Street Journal is reporting that Apple is developing

00:30:51   a journaling app that could possibly be unveiled with iOS 17. The Apple journaling app says,

00:30:59   the journal codenamed Jurassic is designed to help users keep track of their daily lives

00:31:06   according to the documents describing the software. The app will analyze the user's behavior

00:31:11   to determine what a typical day is like including how much time is spent at home compared to

00:31:17   elsewhere and whether a certain day included something outside of the norm. So it seems like

00:31:23   what they're going to be doing here is combining a bunch of data from across the system, right? From

00:31:28   like maybe screen time, find my maps, fitness, like all these kinds of areas and it references

00:31:34   later on as well that this they also what does it say about according to report Apple's app will

00:31:40   have the ability to gather much more user data than third-party journaling apps and will have

00:31:45   access to text messages and phone calls but privacy and security will be central to the

00:31:49   software's design. The analysis of the user's day will take place on device and journaling suggestions

00:31:54   will remain in the system for four weeks after which they will be removed. And as well as the

00:32:00   automatic stuff it is actually supposedly acting as a journal so it brings in like this data for

00:32:06   you to look at and maybe you can add it to the app in some way but it is also prompting you to

00:32:12   reflect on and write about your day, right? So like you will have the ability to just write what

00:32:19   you're feeling, write what you're thinking based on this information. Does this surprise you as an app

00:32:26   that Apple would want to make? Yes and no. It struck me a little bit like conceptually a little

00:32:35   like Freeform, right? When we talked about Freeform, Freeform is an app that's kind of built

00:32:42   out of a bunch of constituent parts that Apple already had and then they got kind of like put

00:32:47   together with some new stuff on it but it was some features that sort of Apple already worked on a

00:32:51   lot of this stuff. They had the components. They could put it together and do some extra work and

00:32:56   build an app and this feels a little like that in the sense that Apple has all of this information

00:33:01   already and so on one level it's like well we you know Apple already knows how you spent your day

00:33:10   so it can really help with everything else that's going on and I could see the pitch being that

00:33:20   right which is like well you know journaling apps are fun but we can make a very simple one because

00:33:26   again it's Apple. If they do this as an included app it's going to be the one to reach the broad

00:33:33   audience they're going to want to reach instead of like the really dedicated journaling people

00:33:39   but they can pick out like what apps did you use, where did you go today,

00:33:43   you know, anything that the phone knows about you, what notifications you got. I mean there's

00:33:51   a question of like what can they intercept and catalog even if it's all on device you still have

00:33:56   to ask yourself that question. I'm intrigued by that but it is your phone is a very personal

00:34:00   object and it does know things about you and it could probably contribute those or offer to

00:34:04   contribute those to this and then maybe there's an API or something where you know apps are going to

00:34:10   be able to contribute events of like you listen to this podcast or you know whatever you listen to

00:34:14   this music they know right if you listen to Apple music but you set up some events APIs where

00:34:20   apps can sort of log things that you did during the day and then they're also presented to you

00:34:26   it's an interesting idea. I think that they could there's probably already things that developers

00:34:31   have to do right that this would be able to pull from like a you know kind of like how Shortcuts

00:34:36   works right where like Shortcuts is taking advantage of an API which is named I can't remember

00:34:42   to be able to recommend things that you do frequently on your device right and so they can

00:34:46   then be incorporated into Shortcuts is how kind of like the Siri Shortcuts thing started off right

00:34:53   of like here's the thing that you do frequently why don't you turn this into a shortcut.

00:34:57   So I think this is a fascinating idea like uh in the Discord it's saying intense API which I think

00:35:04   is what it's called now I think it used to have a different name it was something else but now I

00:35:09   think it's intense. This idea is fascinating to me obviously I care about journaling I make a journal

00:35:16   right and I think because I believe in the idea of like reflecting and writing out for someone who's

00:35:20   already a journaler I could imagine myself wanting to take advantage of the data part but I'm still

00:35:27   going to write it down on pen and paper because that's just what I care about. I would love it

00:35:32   if I could you know maybe take a picture of my like my theme system journal put it into this app

00:35:38   right so like what I write down I could add it in and it could you know be something like that I know

00:35:42   that our friend David Sparks does something similar right like he writes out a journal

00:35:47   and takes pictures of it and saves it in day one right so like you could you could do that

00:35:51   but you'd benefit from all this information. I mentioned day one so I will say here this

00:35:59   the thing that surprises me about even approaching an app like this and the way that they're building

00:36:04   it it's like it just kind of feels like they're asking for trouble like because Apple will now

00:36:10   make a journaling app with features that only they're able to access but and existing apps that

00:36:17   do this kind of stuff they can't get all of the information about your text messages your phone

00:36:21   calls your proximity to other people which is a thing that it will be able to work out to try and

00:36:26   suggest that you know maybe you spent time with Jason today because you were both in the same

00:36:30   place based on five mile like third parties aren't going to be able to access this data

00:36:35   so whilst this could be a good feature it could end up just being another kind of place to hang

00:36:43   a hat on of how Apple is anti-competitive and for that reason I'm kind of a little bit

00:36:49   perplexed by this idea because I can't imagine this will be a set of APIs for journaling apps

00:36:56   to be able to use. Well that right I mean so this is I think this makes the counter argument

00:37:02   which is the privacy argument which in in the Wall Street Journal report that's what they say is that

00:37:10   privacy and security will be central to the software's design I think that's the

00:37:14   counter argument which is Apple is going to keep all this on device and it's going to be encrypted

00:37:22   and in your iCloud account etc etc and that's and and that anything that Apple's doing in terms of

00:37:29   analyzing your behavior it's just going to go to this place and it's just going to stay on your

00:37:34   device and and then Apple the stuff you choose to save is only going to sync encrypted to Apple

00:37:40   and it's going to be super perfect right the reason that they're going to say that is because

00:37:45   honestly can you imagine saying we've got an API now that's going to collect all the behavior of

00:37:50   everything you do on your iPhone and third oh yes third-party apps will be able to read it all

00:37:56   no like you can't you can't do that right because there's essentially zero trust with third-party

00:38:04   apps we've we've been down this road before yeah and even if there's I mean there are clever ways

00:38:09   they could do it they could have it be like okay it is an API we're not non-competitive day one

00:38:14   can use this other journaling apps can use this but here's how it works is they have a they use

00:38:20   this API and it and they never see what is offered to the user and the user chooses what to add

00:38:27   yeah from an API that's running kind of like the that photos API that brings up a photo picker but

00:38:33   the the app doesn't see the photos in your library it just sees the ones you pick and pass to it but

00:38:39   it doesn't see all the photos in the library and that's apple's approach to privacy they could do

00:38:43   something like that and maybe maybe they would but it would have to be at that level right which is

00:38:49   we've created an event picker that's based on the events that happen on your phone they stay on the

00:38:54   device and third-party apps can have access to it if you allow them but even then they only will see

00:39:02   the events that you choose to share and it won't be like a yes share all my music with this app

00:39:08   it'll be choose the music that you listen to here's a list that you listen to today pick the songs you

00:39:17   want to share with this app maybe they could do it that way but it's going to be tough and and often

00:39:22   often what apple does is they release the app and then they you know the API comes later

00:39:27   it's like just this time it's just us but you would certainly the counter-argument would be

00:39:33   there are already journaling apps out there what are you doing why are you privileging yourself

00:39:37   here why don't you just build the API and let all the journaling apps use it if you think it's such

00:39:40   a great idea yeah yes like my counter-argument to your original counter-argument which is like the

00:39:46   one about safety and security is apple don't have to make a journaling app like this isn't a business

00:39:53   they need to be in at all like it it right this is not something that is expected of phones right

00:40:01   like it's not like a a temp hole feature that they should have to be able to meet their competition

00:40:07   like this would be a really interesting app that they could do some really cool stuff with and

00:40:12   i would be really interested in it as a user like i don't use something like day one because i don't

00:40:18   have a personal need for it um it would just be i would be doing what i'm doing on pen and paper

00:40:24   which i prefer i would be typing it which i don't want to do but this app would be intriguing to me

00:40:30   because it may be able to surface things to me that i wasn't even aware i did right because

00:40:34   it's collecting up data from my phone and then i can use that in some kind of way of reflecting

00:40:39   on my day it'd be like a here's a bunch of data that i have and i can use that and that's all fine

00:40:45   right but also i will say if it's all on device i have a question too which is is it going to be as

00:40:51   useless as some of apple's other stuff where their commitment to on-device privacy means that if i'm

00:40:57   journaling on my ipad and i've been places with my iphone that my ipad doesn't know about it because

00:41:02   it's only on the iphone that's stupid but apple does that with the health stuff and i hate it so

00:41:09   i i would wonder you know is this a thing where really you're only able to do this on on your

00:41:14   iphone because only your iphone knows these things and it would be maybe iphone specific you're right

00:41:20   i'm making it there doesn't there doesn't need to be an app to do this but it's also possible that

00:41:24   they that they think that this is a nice bit of functionality that they have access to and it

00:41:28   could be that this is literally a demo app i mean that they'll do the basic app but that there if

00:41:33   there's an api behind it then they're also saying we've allowed this whole new class of data to be

00:41:39   shared with apps that you trust as i described right which is you bring up a an event picker

00:41:45   and you choose the events and they get sent to whatever app you choose to send them to yeah maybe

00:41:52   that that's the idea but i would know it's just it's the case it's it is difficult right you can

00:41:58   see the the thing here where there's apple apple has access to some very specific data that apps

00:42:04   don't have and so on one level you're like well this is this is interesting maybe we should make

00:42:09   an app but if you do that then you have now built this app from a privileged position that

00:42:15   potentially hurts all of the apps that aren't in the privileged position but at the same time you

00:42:20   can't give them access to privileged information because who knows what that app is going to do

00:42:25   with it sync it back to somewhere mine it for information you know whatever it is so then you

00:42:30   have to erect security and this this is why apple gets in trouble right this is why because there

00:42:35   is a legitimate argument and it varies in how legitimate it is but there is a legitimate

00:42:40   argument that the reason apple holds on to this stuff is not anti-competitive it's because it's

00:42:45   protective and you know i i think that's true to a certain extent and then not to the extent that

00:42:49   apple pushes it but you can see it right here in this idea and your argument is also a strong one

00:42:54   which is like maybe just don't do it right maybe just don't step in another one but here it is

00:43:01   again watch if this does come out in ios 17 i will say again watch for the nature of that is this an

00:43:08   api that other apps get access to or is this apple building something just for itself that only apple

00:43:14   can can see because that's um a little bit tougher to it you can understand why they would do it that

00:43:22   way but it's also a choice that they've made to keep that keep it for themselves instead of

00:43:26   building something that any app could potentially use in a secure way and it's like it's frustrating

00:43:31   to me because i would like this application to exist i am sure that there are people inside of

00:43:38   apple who wanted it to exist so they've made it right it's like a cool thing that they've made

00:43:44   but there's this part in the middle where decisions have been made about how apple runs its business

00:43:50   that makes this like a it can't just be a celebration of like a cool thing that they've made

00:43:55   right that there will be like wordpress right who owns day one like automatic i should say who owns

00:44:02   day one yeah we'll be like hang on a minute like i actually think in the wall street journal article

00:44:07   if i'm remembering rightly they spoke spoke to paul maine the founder of day one and you know he

00:44:13   was kind of just like here we go again yeah well i mean and and sherlocking as a concept is most

00:44:21   often applied to things that feel like they're part of the core yeah and that and and that

00:44:28   allowing that thing to just be on the third party that at some point it's like well no that needs to

00:44:32   be first party we need to bring that on the inside this feels so outside of that and i i totally can

00:44:40   hear the pitch from inside apple about it and i think that there's validity in that but you are

00:44:45   like there's no driving impetus to doing something like this this is literally literally like hey

00:44:53   uh journaling apps are uh popular but we could do way better because we have access to better info

00:44:58   let's just make a journaling app like okay but you're not supposed to do that no uh it's always

00:45:06   the worst thing to have to hear that you're about to be sherlock today one founder paul maine told

00:45:10   the wall street journal after hearing about apple's plans it would definitely give us some competition

00:45:15   yeah right i mean and then the counter-argument is apple apple validating the category matters yeah

00:45:26   apple getting people interested in the idea matters and i do think it gets overstated

00:45:33   often sherlocking does have the effect of validating your market and while the most

00:45:38   casual users are pleased with what the the platform vendor can offer there's still a big

00:45:44   opportunity and in all the stuff that the platform vendor will never offer because apple is going to

00:45:50   keep it simple because it's a stock app yeah so it's an opera it's it's dangerous but also an

00:45:58   opportunity depending on the details yeah i think that for me the sherlocking part becomes more

00:46:05   complicated when and if right apple has created something in their system to allow just them to

00:46:15   do this part of it like yeah we're gonna make the same apps an app in the same category as you

00:46:21   but ours will be able to do a thing that we will not allow you to do right nobody else has access

00:46:27   to this data it's privileged but we get it and so that's why ours is that's more complicated to me

00:46:32   yes i agree that's that's that's why i think looking for is this part of a sharing api or is

00:46:38   this literally uh only apple will provide this information and that's it you don't you know no

00:46:44   other app can get this information in any way that's shakier but like as someone in case people

00:46:50   are wondering about conflicts right as someone in the journaling business like this for me for me is

00:46:55   good right because i don't make a journaling app but i make a journal and this will put journaling

00:47:00   in the minds of more people so to me is like a good thing right because like we i make something

00:47:06   so different to an app that like you have to want to do it so this might do that thing right exactly

00:47:11   what you're saying where people find out about journaling more and then i can be like oh hey have

00:47:16   you seen this really nice paper version that you might want instead but like if i'm making an app

00:47:23   right if i if me and gray were making the theme system journal app i'd be pretty upset about this

00:47:28   right because that's more of a direct competition so i'd be interested to see like i am genuinely

00:47:36   very intrigued about this i think it would be great to be able to have applications where they're

00:47:42   able to pull in more stuff across the system right i think that would be great and i would love it

00:47:47   more if there was some easy api or like some easy way for this journaling app to be able to pull in

00:47:53   things that i'm doing at third party apps i think that that stuff tends to fall down quite a lot

00:47:58   right like shortcuts is a perfect example in places where it'd be great if developers actually

00:48:04   did more right to like really truly support it so we'll see but i am intrigued

00:48:12   this episode is brought to you by zocdoc you might be trying to find you got something going on right

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00:50:04   our thanks to zocdoc for their support of this show and relay fm i mentioned that we were in high

00:50:11   time when it comes to to rumors 420. oh interesting yeah i mean what we did we did uh celebrate 420 i

00:50:21   guess if that was your thing last week but i don't know if this was right but who could tell

00:50:26   then i went to eugene though so in in if you're present in eugene oregon you're

00:50:31   sort of celebrating 420 all the time oh interesting is that the case i don't know anything like in

00:50:37   like in downtown san francisco yeah there's a oh okay yeah i actually actually a little side story

00:50:42   since that people weren't expecting this little side story um i went in a i went into a marijuana

00:50:49   dispensary when i was in eugene okay why why because i have been told that it was an amazing

00:50:57   sci-fi themed office and it was they it had a tardis door that took you into the back

00:51:08   there was a like there was like a star trek uh label like was on the walls of the enterprise

00:51:14   in the original series on the wall at one point they had like they had star wars stuff it was

00:51:20   really good like really good super nerdy memorabilia and then i walked out because

00:51:26   not interested in purchasing their purchasing their wares but i did go in um and it smelled

00:51:31   less like pot on the inside than it did on the streets that makes sense there was that too

00:51:36   they don't blaze in inside not inside no you take that outside clearly but uh yeah so anyway it's

00:51:41   it's just i i was laughing because um having worked in downtown san francisco um going to eugene was

00:51:46   like oh yeah yep pervasive anyway well the products like sci-fi named like did they have like funny

00:51:55   names oh yeah i think so i think it's all i think it's all themed like the whole thing the place is

00:51:59   called space buds this is now an ad for space buds in eugene oregon space um just go in i'm not i'm

00:52:05   not enjoying the product i'm just saying that it it's uh their decorations are awesome space buds

00:52:11   yep was it with an s or with a z do you know space buds oregon i'm gonna let people find it themselves

00:52:21   rather than put it in the show notes i feel like that's just going to open us up to a whole new set

00:52:25   of uh email spam that we you know to add to our current collection of email spam that we get based

00:52:31   on the information in our show notes okay people can go to space buds the dispensary.com which is

00:52:37   not a great domain name to be honest it's not that great it's not as bad as 1-800-flowers.com but it's

00:52:43   pretty bad yeah but even that domain like you remember that one you just said it right like

00:52:47   what you're gonna remember after today space buds yeah well yeah but it's a phone number as a domain

00:52:52   name is a bad idea anyway they have a billboard as you get off of i-5 and are headed to eugene

00:52:58   there is a billboard by the side of the freeway for space buds we were laughing dispensary

00:53:02   the dispensary.com yeah not to be confused with space buds the florist

00:53:06   oh there is i see what you're saying yeah that don't want i didn't i didn't know where you were

00:53:11   going with that but now i get it anyway mark german has more reports over at bloomberg on how

00:53:18   apple's headset is shaping up and how they plan to launch this product to the world they're going to

00:53:24   be focusing the product on a few key areas gaming fitness collaboration entertainment and kind of

00:53:33   creating a work environment for yourself this seems very broad right but it appears that they

00:53:41   are packing this feature like packing this with features to appeal to as many people as possible

00:53:46   see what sticks move forward apple is planning on ipad apps to be a i think surprisingly big

00:53:55   component of the headset it appears that reality os which is based on ios will draw from the ipad

00:54:03   app store for applications as well as apps that are made kind of primarily for ar vr but you will

00:54:10   be able to search for apps and you'll find anything that's available for ipad apple's going to be

00:54:16   optimizing a vast array of their core platform apps that are on ipad for the headset these are

00:54:23   you know messages notes photos the list goes on and on and on every app that is considered to be

00:54:29   kind of like core to the platform which usually installed of course they're going to optimize to

00:54:33   be available here in vr versions as well as pages numbers keynote garage pad and imovie are all

00:54:41   called out in the in the report from mark there will be a selection of experiences that are fully

00:54:47   tailored to the vr capabilities of the device apple books is in this part which i i can't get

00:54:55   my head around the vr apple books experience like what that is i don't know do you think it's going

00:55:03   to be like you'll hold your hand out and there'll be a book in it and you'll just like turn the page

00:55:07   like what is it for for a coffee table book is it maybe it's audiobooks and then you can listen

00:55:13   while you're doing something else i don't know i don't know that one i this is you should go on

00:55:17   and read the rest of these but like this is this is the part where i think is is fascinating which

00:55:21   is what apps need to be in vr other than like as a floating window or windows containing data because

00:55:30   that makes sense right that you but when you put this on you basically have an ipad or iphone uh

00:55:36   power and so you you can run those apps and they all sync with your icloud account so if you want

00:55:40   to call up your notes you can just do it when you're in there and you have them float you know

00:55:45   float over here and they'll probably be something like stage manager there'll be sort of a windowing

00:55:50   system that'll allow you to have multiple items floating and then switch between items they won't

00:55:56   i don't think it's going to be the case um that as was suggested on connected last week i don't

00:56:01   think it's going to be the case where like you're on a calendar and you have to run to the right day

00:56:07   and then jump on it and then the calendar man and the day yeah and then the day emerges and then you

00:56:12   can you can touch the i don't think it's going to be like that there'll be a window with a calendar

00:56:16   someone is going to make the vr calendar app that you climb through yeah you know someone made the

00:56:20   podcast that didn't have a recording and only had show notes too there are bad ideas exist in the

00:56:24   world so you know i wish i wish them all luck oh my god i've forgotten about that

00:56:31   you have just you've transported me back like sense memory style what if we didn't record a

00:56:36   podcast but we just gave you and posted this show notes yeah great idea yep um but there are other

00:56:44   apps that apple are making which do make more sense i think like when you just read them uh

00:56:49   rather than books so a meditation app great right like you can create a serene environment right and

00:56:58   you can also be like you know locked away inside of the app well yeah because it's sensory right

00:57:02   you got you got the audio and the visual to try and create a a pleasant place for meditation

00:57:08   right makes sense it's like like the breathe app or what is is the breathe app now the meditation

00:57:14   app anyway you know it makes sense yep uh freeform which will quote let users work on virtual white

00:57:21   boards together while in mixed reality i actually imagine freeform will build part of the new

00:57:28   facetime experience like i actually think that they will work together uh yeah because you'll

00:57:32   be in a virtual meeting conference room with a shared whiteboard essentially i think those two

00:57:38   things will go together and or you remember how um in ios 16 there was like hey all of these apps

00:57:45   have new collaboration features right like i could imagine any app that they added this like icloud

00:57:52   collaboration to could also be pulled into a vr meeting and we worked on of course time together

00:57:58   just just to share play will be like that just to share play the same the same kind of kind of

00:58:03   thing that'll be there so yeah i think most apps are going to be like again not running across a

00:58:08   calendar not like having to you know take an adventure to move from one tab of a numbered

00:58:14   spreadsheet to another like those will be things that maybe they'll be like little vr affordances

00:58:20   but i'm really thinking of it as it's a computer that's already running and it's on your face and

00:58:24   so those apps will be there so if you want to uh bring up keynote you can do that and you'll be able

00:58:32   to do some level of productivity in here i think the question is always going to be why am i doing

00:58:36   this on a headset and not on an iphone or an ipad or a computer and maybe the reason is that they

00:58:44   want you to think of this as a productivity device where like you can go this is that famous concept

00:58:49   of you know what if i go on a on a business trip and i don't bring my laptop instead i just bring

00:58:54   the headset and i can sit in the hotel room and i can do work with a big monitor and everything

00:58:58   but i actually am just using the headset maybe maybe not we'll see but the the there's a not a

00:59:04   very heavy lift to bring these apps in their basic form to the headset the question is which ones

00:59:12   deserve more and that's the that's a little bit of the mystery here on that note about like kind

00:59:20   of going back a little bit talking about these apps like ipad apps a quote from the marks report

00:59:25   the device will be able to run multiple apps at the same time floating within the mixed reality

00:59:29   interface the product will remember where you were physically when you were using the app

00:59:34   if say a user runs the web browser from the kitchen goes to another room and then comes

00:59:39   back the browser will reappear i like that this feels a little like siri intelligence almost which

00:59:45   is like except for spatial right where it's like oh i know that this time of day you do this this

00:59:50   is i know that you know when you're in the kitchen you had the web browser up so i'm going to do that

00:59:54   so yeah or imagine uh stage stage manager that's geotagged what i would like in this is like you

01:00:01   know we both have spoken about mela the recipe right if that was just pinned to my wall always

01:00:09   in the kitchen right right like because that's what i that's the place where i need it it's the

01:00:14   place where i want it it's like that kind of thing could make sense with a headset on i mean we also

01:00:20   have to think on one level this all is seems a little we're gonna have some questions where it

01:00:25   seems ridiculous like why am i doing the headset there and i think we're gonna be able to analyze

01:00:30   this when this thing is real and say what's apple thinking here because something like web browser

01:00:40   in the kitchen like okay you're using your vr glasses in the kitchen what's that about

01:00:44   i think the answer is imagine the future product that is always not as cumbersome and that's ar

01:00:55   and that you would wear and is augmenting all aspects of your life i think part of what apple

01:01:01   is trying to do with this in the long run is that and so some stuff might make more sense

01:01:08   in the near term and some stuff might be like well this is great but i'm not going to actually

01:01:14   cook with this thing on and the answer will be no but in five years you'll wear something

01:01:21   and you will use it to cook but so we're starting that process now it'll be interesting to see that

01:01:26   because some of the stuff will seem a lot less practical than other stuff will mark calls out

01:01:30   a few things that we've mentioned around video so we've been kind of worrying wondering about this

01:01:35   for a while like watching movies in a vr theater which is a thing that we've both done with oculus

01:01:40   products in the past and then also like kind of sports and live events that you would actually be

01:01:46   able to have some kind of presence within that event which was you know there was a company

01:01:51   called next vr that apple bought many years ago and they were doing this exact thing so they would

01:01:56   set up at a sporting event record it and then you could use their tools to watch it back and feel

01:02:01   like you had some kind of sense of being there in fact i i think even more than that we're going to

01:02:06   see this into um mls and friday night baseball where it's live where they're you know they've

01:02:17   got a vr rig or two or three or whatever and allow you to be um you know present at a sporting event

01:02:26   in a way that you're not currently and that's an interesting uh since they've got rights now to

01:02:31   some sporting events that's an interesting approach for them uh one of the big one of the ones that i

01:02:38   think is actually going to be a very big deal if they get it right is fitness plus if you could do

01:02:44   vr workout and you've got someone standing in front of you doing the workout but you can kind

01:02:51   of really like better see how i think that could be a really big deal if they get that i agree

01:02:57   and as a as a bike uh as a bike rider i would really love having the extra because i do i

01:03:04   have a stationary bike that i use sometimes especially when the weather is bad and it's

01:03:09   so boring yeah even if i'm watching tv shows it's just it's real boring and if i'm watching

01:03:13   an apple fitness thing which i do now um it's still kind of boring right like i like those

01:03:19   trainers fine but it's still kind of boring i think that in a circumstance where i could be

01:03:25   maybe riding with them maybe riding through a landscape while they're floating above me and

01:03:34   giving me instruction whatever it is i think there's some opportunity for some immersiveness

01:03:38   there beyond just you're in the apple fitness studio with the trainers although even that would

01:03:43   be kind of interesting yeah but you could as you say right the rowing workout why can't i be rowing

01:03:51   on a little creek somewhere little lake yeah yeah why not right why not do that yep and then this

01:03:58   part was fascinating to me uh mark german is saying now contrary to basically every report

01:04:03   that has come before gaming will now apparently be a central piece of the product quote the company

01:04:09   has been working with a small number of developers for months to help them upgrade their assisted

01:04:13   software for mixed reality there you go yeah and it's going to be who y'all know right it's going

01:04:19   to be this is very clearly developers of games that are on ios probably apple arcade games right

01:04:28   like uh there are some existing developers that it was a game that i loved called what the golf

01:04:33   that was one of the early arcade games they have a vr game called what the bat which is

01:04:37   hilarious and fantastic where you have bats for arms and so like there are already existing

01:04:45   developers that they're aware of that you know have vr titles that could be one way to do it

01:04:50   and and there could also be uh they could be working with people to create virtual reality

01:04:57   versions of their existing games etc etc but i still remain intrigued about what the control

01:05:04   mechanisms are if it's all going to be hand tracking i don't know yeah this device will have

01:05:10   biometrics in the form of eye scanning it's a iid oh god i hate that i guess it would be retina id

01:05:20   right retina id yeah something like that although if they call it iid incredible right like just

01:05:28   i would be flabbergasted but maybe it's one of those things everybody's written down nobody

01:05:35   said it out loud it was too late might be irises i don't know if it's irises or retinas or what

01:05:41   they're scanning but maybe maybe it's just your eyes and your face so maybe it's just face id

01:05:46   mark german followed up and so this was all the piece on bloomberg he didn't followed up in his

01:05:51   uh newsletter spoke a little bit more about this and kind of referred to the approach of scatter

01:05:56   shot uh this morning our friend to show steven hackett wrote about this approach and kind of he

01:06:03   compares the product launches over time of like iphone ipod apple watch like these big things and

01:06:09   kind of like how they were perceived at the time how they were spoken about you know like everybody

01:06:15   knows the iphone presentation right the three things and then apple tried to redo this a little

01:06:19   bit with the apple watch but that presentation ended up being much broader and he says the thing

01:06:25   that i like says every new product needs to be broad now because consumers assume that everything

01:06:30   is a computer that can be do computer things splashing cold water on the headsets upcoming

01:06:35   announcement because it appears to lack a killer app feels premature to me doing a bit of everything

01:06:41   is mere table stakes now so like this this whole thing that mark's talking about is like hey it

01:06:46   does everything but you know we've been talking about this in previous weeks of like the killer

01:06:52   app and what is a killer app like realistically the killer app for this headset is just using it

01:06:59   and it feels good like it but it needs to do it all or it'll emerge right like they'll give a sense

01:07:06   of a thing where it's like oh that thing is what everybody loves about it and these other things

01:07:10   don't matter but i agree with steven it's table stakes at this point and you've got the other

01:07:14   thing is apple's advantage here and this is actually what i wrote about in macworld last week

01:07:18   yep um apple's advantage is apple has built because apple is the only company that has

01:07:24   a zillion different bespoke hardware or software platforms for hardware that they make right

01:07:29   like they they don't just have one they have they have a half dozen of them the the only way they

01:07:34   can do that is by recycling everything is basically based on ios except for mac os and even that

01:07:39   they share code um and and uh history and so this product is going to be based on ios too and the

01:07:47   apps are going to be very much like ios the great advantage is what we talked about earlier you can

01:07:52   just bring in your ios apps and say you know do people want to use notes or or pages in in

01:07:58   vr maybe maybe not we don't know but um you can and then let's find out and they can do that at

01:08:07   a cost that is so much less than uh if you had to build everything like that from scratch like

01:08:12   facebook can't do that right but apple can do that and then they can see and then they can focus in

01:08:19   other areas and place some bets and i do think that that's what's going on and i and as stephen

01:08:24   points out like the apple watch did that too and i think there's i i i don't love it because the

01:08:30   ideal product launch is a product where you know exactly what it is um and why it's going to be a

01:08:35   hit but the truth is modern computing platforms are so varied that you kind of just need to fill

01:08:40   in the table stakes and then place some bets and then see what happens and go from there and follow

01:08:46   your users if you're going to build an operating system like if you're going to say this thing has

01:08:51   its own operating system in 2023 there are 15 things it needs to do right like it needs to be

01:08:57   able to access all your photos your messages you've got to be able to access your email your

01:09:02   account like it's got to have all of that and apple gets that for free if not for free apple

01:09:07   gets that for real cheap yeah and that's that's one of their huge advantages with this is they

01:09:11   get it for cheap because it's an ipad on your head right and so it can run that software unmodified

01:09:18   probably right just as a window probably doesn't even need anything they're probably gestures that

01:09:22   are equivalents and all of that right so that gets them that and then they add extra stuff yeah it's

01:09:31   how you interact with a touch device on a virtual screen and how you move around to different apps

01:09:36   and different windows and different apps and that that layer of it matters a lot and what these

01:09:41   individual kind of like apps that go beyond like the wellness app that's a good place where you

01:09:49   need to figure it out if there's a meditation app or whatever it is so you know that's the that's

01:09:55   the trick is you place your bets you do the table stakes sorry i'm mixing my gambling metaphors here

01:09:59   but you do the table stakes and then you and then you have areas of interest where you kind of add

01:10:03   on and then you and really you ship it and see what happens i'm a firm believer in that that

01:10:09   like that that's what they have to do is they have that's why this product has to ship because they

01:10:14   got it they got to start going and they got to start getting legitimate feedback from the world

01:10:18   about the decisions that they made on the inside that were right and the decisions that they made

01:10:22   on the inside that were wrong so that they can change direction and you you just won't know that

01:10:26   until you ship it marco has a few details about the battery pack to wrap this one up today

01:10:31   it will feature a magnetic connector so there will be like a cable coming from the battery pack

01:10:38   that will have a make a proprietary magnetic connector on the end that you'll attach to the

01:10:42   headset and you twist it so it locks so that way it won't come out and cut your power right right

01:10:49   you'll just twist it disconnect easily the battery pack will look similar to the magsafe iphone

01:10:55   battery pack but will be bigger and should give about two hours of power so mark expects which

01:11:01   would make sense that you would have the ability to buy extras of these so you could you know have

01:11:07   three of them and keep charging charges by usb-c the battery pack itself the headset also has a

01:11:14   usb-c port on it so maybe you could just plug it in if you're seated and just power it that way

01:11:21   right like that you'd have the option potentially but yeah that's how it's gonna run i think they're

01:11:25   gonna need to do that if they're really talking about doing productivity things i feel like

01:11:30   they're gonna need to have the ability for you to plug in directly yep why not right and that

01:11:36   would maybe that's an extra you know hundred dollar a six foot cable that does that i don't

01:11:43   know yeah maybe special vr cables gold-lined vr cables yeah this episode is brought to you by

01:11:53   ladder look we all have a tendency to put some things off to the very last minute i know i do

01:11:58   this all the time right i'm sure that you do too whether it's going to the dmv arranging a dental

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01:13:29   our thanks to ladder for the support of this show and relay fm it is time for some ask upgrade

01:13:37   questions the first one comes from brent today who says i'm curious how you do your show notes

01:13:45   for the show specifically does each episode get a new file in google docs or do you have one single

01:13:52   document that you update every single episode and is this the same for all of your shows one single

01:13:58   document that we update each episode and for all of my shows that have show notes that is how we do

01:14:05   it yep the upgrade document there have been three of them in total because it gets to a certain point

01:14:12   where the document becomes really unusable on ios like there's just so much history in the document

01:14:19   we had to change it quite recently because it just would not open for me on my iphone

01:14:23   so we set up a new document but we keep those old ones so this is from like episode 450 onwards

01:14:29   this is how i do for all of my shows like just the same google doc all the time i know that on mac

01:14:35   power users they use a new one every time and i cannot understand that it doesn't because they're

01:14:40   monsters um i will say that incomparable and we have this now with our our google sheet uh

01:14:48   i have a planning sheet yeah mac break weekly and twit and also clockwise have a google sheet with

01:14:58   new tabs for every episode and what they do there is they have a generic tab that they duplicate or

01:15:06   if you don't have that you you make a duplicate and then you delete everything from the previous

01:15:10   episode and put in the new information but that works better if you've got something where it's

01:15:14   sort of like the format is we're going to talk about these links or the format is uh everybody

01:15:20   brings a topic like clockwise what we do on upgrade is much more detailed and doesn't fit

01:15:26   that format so you can't outline in google sheets right so it's a google doc and then we just delete

01:15:33   it and i mean you you basically just delete it and put in the new sponsors and the new number and

01:15:38   and then new content in you know between the headers because i can always go back to the

01:15:42   history and see any episode that i want which i love if we need to we can go to the version

01:15:46   history and it allows us to put a bunch of stuff down at the bottom of like like you know here's an

01:15:50   extra thing and here's an idea and that all lives down at the bottom of the document yep

01:15:54   jack asks what are your favorite safari extensions and are they different on mac os and ios i have

01:16:03   just three and they're the same on all of my devices um one is super agent super agent is

01:16:11   a fantastic app that basically means that i never need to see cookie notices anymore right you set

01:16:18   some preferences in super agent and then every time a cookie notice comes up it just applies

01:16:25   those settings to whatever the cookie thing is right so like it can turn off tracking cookies

01:16:30   it can enable functional cookies only and then i just don't see them anymore um one password is

01:16:36   one of my extensions i really like it on ios a lot i think it does a great job um and then honey

01:16:41   i use honey this is the one where like it can save you money as you shop it's like why not just have

01:16:47   it there i've used it i have it there i haven't saved a lot of money with it but i've saved some

01:16:52   so why not right it's just there whenever i'm checking out it will check to see if there's

01:16:57   any available codes for me and apply them i'm using um one blocker i'm using which is an ad

01:17:07   blocker that's also content and custom i actually what was it i was on a website that i won't name

01:17:13   but it's a tech uh website and they have a new template where in the middle of the article they

01:17:19   insert a top comment oh oh yeah i saw this recently and i i have i have block comments

01:17:29   turned on but that is inserting uh a comment in the story text essentially and i yeah i hate it

01:17:38   and one of the things one blocker lets you do is custom blockers where you if you can find the

01:17:47   the the like css you do inspect element in safari and you you find this find the css

01:17:53   of like the element that's in there and you just turn it off and it goes away so you can build your

01:18:01   own custom content blocking um so i it's blocking ads but it's also blocking comments and trackers

01:18:08   and widgets and other stuff um so i use that one password obviously and i am using um i wrote about

01:18:16   this a while ago redirect web for safari which basically is an app that lets you and and stop the

01:18:22   madness i think does this too you can basically put a url pattern in and say take this url pattern

01:18:27   when you see it and redirect it to a different web page and i actually use that because there are a

01:18:31   bunch of local newspapers in the bay area who are owned by the same company and they all have the

01:18:36   same url scheme and i subscribe to one of them but the subscriptions don't cross so it's set up that

01:18:42   if it hits a uh a url on the one site it rewrites that url to the site that i subscribe to which is

01:18:52   pretty cool yeah that's it james asks do you often use alternate icons for apps on ios or do you

01:19:00   stick with the default ones if an app has a a picker i will usually choose something yeah and

01:19:08   then i generally just leave it there forever after that i'll always take a look right and like most

01:19:12   of the apps that i like the most i i've chosen something uh custom for it just because they're

01:19:18   fun usually for me it's usually a color like i've chosen a bunch of orange ones yep but um yeah i'll

01:19:24   i'll give it a shot i don't change them at all but if if a if an i don't do the thing where you

01:19:30   make a shortcut and have a custom icon i don't do it no but i but i do if the app lets me pick i

01:19:35   will choose and and i'll do some of them if it's a they've got like a six colors uh rainbow apple

01:19:40   thing i'll do that because on brand right um i do that in some so yeah a little bit of six color

01:19:46   ones because they look good yeah okay one that way um i use the purple slack icon which is the

01:19:53   only good one in my opinion um which a lot of people don't know that there is an icon picker

01:19:59   and so yeah it's not great but like you only get three options i use that too because it it's

01:20:03   harder to think that it's the photos app yep the white one is is not great on the iphone because

01:20:08   it looks like so many other apps that are just just white with all the primary colors yeah i

01:20:15   use a few where i have the option to do so but there are some apps that i wish had better options

01:20:21   to say like todoist has a bunch of options but i don't like any of them so i just use the default

01:20:28   one but i think i would like to change it but i don't like the options that they give me this is

01:20:34   a fun piece of trivia in the discord james says the six color p-calc icon is the most popular one

01:20:39   that's fun love it and brock says should apple bring back the glowing logo on the lid of mac

01:20:48   books we've added we've asked this or we've answered this before this has been asked before

01:20:52   it's been answered before but i'll just say it again yes absolutely apple should and if it takes

01:20:57   more engineering or if they have to do like a custom led on the back or whatever like yeah they

01:21:03   should in fact wouldn't it be amazing if it was a custom thing and you could control it separately

01:21:08   but uh whatever reason i i'm sure there were some very good engineering reasons why it went away but

01:21:14   uh they should absolutely bring it back it was great that's it like that's the answer i'm gonna

01:21:20   say i'm gonna say no i'm gonna say no so hit what you said about if it was customizable in some way

01:21:26   maybe like if you could do something fun with it but like if it's just gonna glow white no i prefer

01:21:31   my color matched midnight apple logo than if it was lit up oh no so this is like what they should

01:21:40   do instead is more colors right because then you can get a yellow one or an orange one and they're

01:21:48   matched like you don't need it to light up oh i like it when it glows though it just is so pretty

01:21:55   no that's old school thinking so no it's so pretty it's new it's so old it's new again

01:22:01   oh because in the dark no one knows you're using a macbook in the dark no one knows

01:22:06   like i don't want that i don't you gotta send out a beacon like here it is the apple logo

01:22:12   if you would like to send in a question for us to answer and ask upgrade you can go to upgrade

01:22:18   feedback.com you can also send us in your follow-up and your general feedback for the show

01:22:24   there you can check out jason's writing over at sixcolors.com and hear his podcasts at

01:22:29   the incomparable.com and here on relay fm you can listen to my shows here on relay fm and check out

01:22:34   my work at cortexbrand.com we're on mastodon you can find jason as @jsnell on zeppelin.flights

01:22:41   you can find me as @imike on mike.social and you can find the show on relay fm.social as @upgrade

01:22:49   if you want to catch clips of this show we are @upgraderelay on instagram and tiktok

01:22:55   thank you to our members and also wriggly spearmint gum we're also upgrade relay on there

01:23:01   thank you to our members who support us with upgrade plus today on upgrade plus you're gonna

01:23:06   if you are a member you're gonna get to hear us talk about the results of our rss exploration

01:23:12   challenge go to getupgradeplus.com and you can sign up thank you to our sponsors ladder zock doc

01:23:19   and factor for their support of the show but most of all thank you for listening until next time

01:23:25   say goodbye jason snow goodbye mike early